I asked for thoughts and opinions on this BBC 4 programme, billed as “Documentary which recalls the heyday of one of Britain’s most iconic buildings, BBC Television Centre, through the memories of stars and staff.”
The programme, not surprisingly, was a lot more “stars” than “staff” – staff haven’t spent their lives performing to camera, only behind it. Lots of people have offered their thoughts and here they are.
…but before that folks, in the run up to the show, the newspapers were making a big deal about a story by a Playschool presenter about spliffs and sex. We all knew that life at Television Centre, just like life everywhere else, had its moments but mostly wasn’t like that. Paul Kay wrote to the Daily Mail and it was published on Thursday 17th May 2012. Fame at last –
Now people’s thoughts on the show –
Here’s what I wrote –
I really enjoyed it, for what it was – it was bright and it was fun. But then, standing back a bit, I realised that mostly what I’d seen was Richard’s old colleaugues in kids and a few other performing types. Other than them, there was pretty much no-one at all. Roger Bunce did an excellent job and kept the tech-ops end up, and John Henshall told a
tale to do with ends up. Graphics artist Bob Richards also did a bit. But where was everyone else? A bit of chatter about make-up, but no make-up people, nor actually anyone else who actually worked there at all. I have to declare an interest – I was interviewed and not used, but I don’t mind that. I’ve made documentaries and know how it is. I’ve dropped a few people in my time. But to have no-one else from any of the worker departments seems a bit much.
To be fair to Richard, there were only three of them on the team, probably with a budget of sixpence. And they were making a programme for the viewer, not us. A huge amount of work went in to it in quite a short time. I imagine the editing went on far into the night to get that amount of stuff in.
Richard had decided to have no commentary, but a good rounded history with lots of commentary needs to be made, and soon. It was fun, but there’s a big hole in the schedule for a proper programme about the place.
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John Henshall has already posted on the GTC website –
“When I became involved in this programme, six months ago, I was led to believe
it was the story of the people who made the Television Centre tick. Lots of
‘technicians’ were interviewed but only former GTC member Roger Bunce and myself
survived into the programme. I spent two and a half hours sitting in front of a
camera (lit by a single sodium light in the scenery runway) telling story after
story.
I can reminisce for England but only two of my stories made it into the show,
for me the more important one being an allusion to the appallingly bad camera
management we had to endure at TVC, which sent you a “TS” card (“Tough S**t”) if
you complained about being posted to a poor crew. My father (an artist and
calligrapher) designed that card at the request of camera manager Tony Abbey.
Call it a*s*e licking if you like, but it was a good way to ensure that I never
received one myself.
Inevitably, ‘Tales of Television Centre’ came down to mainly old management and
stars. They are the known names which get an audience, not the likes of us.
In fact it was this show which arranged the recovery of my “lost” recording of
David Bowie’s ‘The Jean Genie’, when I mentioned that I had it. They took me to
have it transferred from the 2-inch VTR and the saga began there. I promised
them the first showing (which would have been in pure 4:3 on the Red Button
after ‘Tales of TVC’ last night) but there was an internal battle at the BBC
which BBC2’s ‘Top of the Pops 2’ won. At least when it was shown stretched to
16:9 on TOTP2 on 21 December 2011 it had a caption superimposed with my name on
it – my first and only credit ever as a BBC cameraman. (What changes?)
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Robert Miles –
As there is so much talent out there on this forum, surely we could set up some dates for a ‘diary room’ where stories could be recorded for our own ‘Tales’?
I would be happy to loan a sound kit should you think the idea has merit.
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Doug Watson –
Any story of TVC is incomplete, camera performance wise, without a mention of Jim Atkinson, Ron Green and others. The whole capability of making very cheap productions watchable, the transformation of drama and light entertainment camera techniques would have been impossible without their like and I believe that was true for throughout the TVC skill base. How the whole project ever worked together was, and still is, a complete mystery to me.
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Rex Palmer –
Well, where do I start? As you say, it was obviously made on a shoestring, not that that is an excuse for lack of imagination. For instance, why no interview with Jonathan Miller about the famous (infamous?) BBC Shakespeare series started by Cedric Messina and finished by Jonathan. That series was surely worth including. Then did no-one have any stories about working with the likes of Ted Kotcheff, Philip Saville or Rudy Cartier in drama, or Stewart Morris or Ernest Maxin in LE? Or how about Bob Hoskins trying to teach illiterate adults how to read in Further Education?
Or, on a slightly more technical side, how when Dr Who first started in Lime Grove, an inherent fault with the cameras used there, the ‘peel-off’ effect of the CPS Emitrons, was used for the way the Daleks killed their opponents. This meant that when the programme moved to TVC the producers had to find another way for the Daleks to dispose of their enemies!
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James French –
TV Centre surely deserves a 10 part documentary series. They won’t realise what they have lost until it is completely gone and then it will be utterly irreplaceable.
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Chris Harnett –
the truth is that only on old ‘techie’ sites and you tube can those of us who where there in TV in the last 40 years give a flavour of what it was like to the new people of today and those outside the industry. I shall always be critical of the ‘ artistic programme types’ who hog the limelite (LEDlight these days?) because we engineering types ‘don’t understand. No of course we don’t but I bet there are more accomplished artists amoungst our fraternity than they could ever imagine. The young inexperienced ‘producers, these days are open mouthed when you say that at the BBC I was a TA a TO, a reporter for Today, a heron crane driver, a operator of cameras from Turret MK3 Marconis to colour Mk7s (ugh) and ended up as an Audio Supervisor, all in 8 years! Art, well there were awards for Glyndebourne, and directing the now 22 year old Swiss rail journeys.
No of course we ‘techies are ‘arty’ it is just the arty types cannot bear the fact that they are techno ignorami and put us down at every opportunity to hide their own unacceptable failings. This attitude has always pervaded the corridors of BBC management and still does. It is at a total detriment to the BBC, the industry as a whole and a symptom of the malaise the grips this country.
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Roger Brunskill –
What did you expect? Any BBC programme supposed to be about the mechanics of BBC Television always features the luvvies especially the fruity ones. David Attenborough thought that TK lived under the fountain not VT ! Nothing at all really about the depts
who made BBCTV go. Tech.ops,Engineering, VT ,TK, Design and the Scene men
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Peter Fox –
I thought “Blue Peter Special” but I liked it anyway.
There is so much history that it would take another 50 years to cover it. (It’s called repeats) But where were the big dramas and big LE shows? It was a bit unbalanced. (probably because everybody has died, although that doesn’t stop the comedians) Maybe it would have been an expensive royalties’ nightmare.
We knew all of the “Eric from the Club” stories, and it’s probably best to use professionals to tell those tales. Having said that Clive, Roger and John did a grand job, but then they are “naturals” . We shall have to ask Roger for a repeat of his dinosaur impression at the next…..
I also liked the way Richard M guided the cast into slick pick-ups from each other, and had a snippet of VT for every occasion, often thanks to ” Pas B”!
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Pat Heigham –
I suppose it was inevitable that the stories would be delivered by the ‘luvvies’ and the ‘glams’. As you rightly say, Bernie, the programme was made for the viewer who isn’t interested in the ‘workers’. Nor is Continuity, who persist in shrinking the end credits to unreadable size. (I was rather pleased, when a programme on Yesterday, which used a fair set of clips from the 8mm film I shot of the B & W Minstrels, gave me a screen credit as Archive, which was not shrunk until just after!).
Esther Ranzen wasn’t totally accurate when she said that we the workers came in from the back entrance – not true, I used to get off the tube at White City and use the front main door – sometimes straight across the middle to the south doors, but there wasn’t the security then, that’s necessary today. However, it was communicated that we should not fraternise with the artistes, except in a professional capacity.
Still, a trip to engender nostalgia, and I gather from those that viewed it at NFT1, that eight minutes of rather naughty material was replaced by less salacious stuff for transmission.
Biddy Baxter’s story of being accused of treating TVC ‘for entertainment’, I believe started life when Mike Bentine launched TVC into the galaxy, as a space station, resulting in a stiff memo to the producers to the effect that “Television Centre is not to be used for entertainment!” I’m pleased that Roger got in the story of the time when the ground floor cash office was raided, and the commissionaires all thought it was a shoot for “Square World”
The canteen sequence – not necessarily a division of ‘class’, more of being able to afford it. Waitress service was more expensive, but I remember eating there from time to time.
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Peter Neill –
It was like a chinese meal – enjoyable at the time, but ultimately unsatisfying.
I was immediately struck by the fact that it was childrens-heavy and didn’t show any programmes actually being made today.
But then I got to thinking more, and most of the people I would have liked to have heard from are now, sadly, unavailable for interview.
And how can you show corridors of people (designers, film editors, producers etc.) being able to pop into each others’ offices and bounce ideas off each other when they’re no longer there.
Biddy sort of put over the fact that everyone and everything was always available, but I know that Waris Hussein had much more to say.
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Roger Bunce –
O.K. I liked it. (NO! Not just my bits!) I liked the shots of the building. I always intended to do a photographic safari around the place, but never had a wide enough lens to show it properly. They did it pretty well (Although they could have held the camera still occasionally). I loved all the archive clips, and the fact that they didn’t crop the 4 by 3 stuff (unlike most digital repeats). They always seemed to get the ideal clip to illustrate the quote. E.g, they found the actually t-rex I was talking about, even though I don’t think I told them which Dr. Who story it was from. And when I was talking about Michael Bentine blasting TVC into space, they didn’t stay with my boring talking head, but showed the actual clip. Much better. I’d no idea it still existed. (Oddly, when talking about the cashiers robbery, they did stay with me, even though they evidently had Michael Bentine’s own version of the story. Strange. I think they confused two different robberies, but never mind.)
The Robert Powell and Babs story was wonderfully feel-good. David Attenborough was there to remind us that, once upon a time, the BBC had good managers. I liked Peter Davidson’s memory of those blue smocks worn by Make-Up Girls. Those who’ve seen the opening of ‘Cameraman the Movie’ may suspect that I share his sentiment. The choice of music was just right, especially the ‘Likely Lads’ theme at the end. And the unstated, but implied, sentiment was that leaving TV Centre is a bloody stupid idea. Too damn right.
Like John and Bernie I was disappointed that my best stories didn’t make it to air. But if they gave an hour or two interview to each person, for a 90 minute programme, sheer arithmetic must dictate that we won’t get much time each. And, inevitably, they’d prefer to show celebs than techies. Don’t forget that the pre-watershed version at 7 o’ clock tomorrow has additional material. And our memories may not die with us. Richard was hoping to archive all his rushes, so future researchers may yet discover what we said.
And anyway guys! Why should our memories die? I’ve had so many nostalgic chats with old colleagues, and there’s always someone who says, “What a shame we’re not recording this.” And we never do. Why not? We have the technology. We have the skills (not me personally, but between us). O.K. our version wouldn’t get broadcast, but there must be space for it out in that electric web-cloud thingy that I never understood. We needn’t limit ourselves to techies. As Bernie suggests, we could round up lots of Make Up Girls and Autocue Girls. We could even interview them! I volunteer Bernie to edit it, partly because he knows about these things, but mostly so that he can get his own back by cutting out other people.
At this point, Bernie, I must admit that I hatched a dastardly, underhanded plot to do you down. Looking at the names on the guest-list for the NFT – nice names like Dee Dee, Babs and Ruth – I thought, now’s my chance to get one-up (actually two-up) on Bernie, in the Pan’s-People-I-Have-Snogged contest. Sadly, I was so engrossed with other people that I forgot about it, until I glimpsed Dee Dee disappearing into the night. Fortunately, Babs was passing me at the time, (and what a thoroughly nice lady she is!) so I was able to notch-up one. I reckon that makes us even, but my plan to overtake you in one bound has failed dismally.
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Janis Goldring, wife of cameraman Peter –
It brought back many memories and we were delighted to see Peter featured in a really tiny clip with Roger Fenna – we think on the set of Secret Army – Peter was instantly identifiable with his flared jeans!! It was good to see a lot of the old faces – I might even forgive Biddy Baxter for being such a witch! I will ask Peter if he wants to share some of his stories of the TV Centre – which mainly featured accidents involving broken cameras as I recall! But I can echo what Robert and Babs said – they thanked TVC for them meeting and them being together for 36 years with two kids – and this year we hit 40 years and again with two kids! Happy days!
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John Bennett –
I really enjoyed it as well. I was a little apprehensive following the “tabloid splash” about Presenters having sex and smoking cannabis at TVC, but hey, no surprise that today’s excuses for “journalists” could find no other interest in a programme about such an iconic building and the cultural history surrounding it! For the record unfortunately I never had sex at TVC, or with anyone who worked there. I wouldn’t like to think how many pints of beer I consumed in the Club though!
I arrived at TVC in September 1970, fresh from the “A1” course at Evesham, and I’ll never forget my first impressions. We had made it at last, just like a kid’s dream of being a train driver had come true. The building itself was completely overwhelming! In a group of new trainee Camera Assistants I seem to remember we were brought in round the back entrance (probably Frithville Gardens) by one of the four Camera Managers (Laurie Duley I think). We were taken round the studios dropping off various members of the new intake to their respective crews. Just glimpsing the studios and all the activity was so exciting. When most of the new trainees had been delivered to a studio at least 3 of us were told that the crews we were allocated to were on a scheduled day off and to go home. What a disappointment! So the next day I had to report to lime Grove to work on “Nationwide and 24 Hours” and would not see the magical TVC studios for 2 days! Needless to say I got hopelessly lost in Lime Grove trying to find Studio E and ended up in a film camera maintenance workshop asking for directions. The guys there were very helpful but genuinely didn’t know where the TV studios were! I got there in the end and met crew 5. Jim Atkinson was on leave (or at home) so it was a few more days before I got to meet the legendary figure! Everyone on the crew was very friendly. Peter Hider took charge of my training and I was sent into what seemed like a broom cupboard to load slides into a “TJ” machine (Telejector) or slide machine as I thought it was – remember “white to the light”! Not in the least bit exciting and I did wonder if this was what I had been looking forward to for so long.
The point the programme makes about the “caste” system operating at TVC was very apparent from day one. We always came in via the “tradesman’s entrance” and I don’t think I ever even got to know where the dressing rooms were! It was interesting to see them in the film. Of course I never had any need to go to dressing rooms, VT, Telecine, the 6th floor etc. so I didn’t! Spare time would be spent on the 4th floor in the Club drinking some ghastly Watneys concoction (was it “Starlight”?) that they called beer. The famous actors appearing on the dramas that crew 5 did seem distant from the lowly crew members’ perspective. The top cameramen did have a very good professional rapport with them but I think that was as far as it went. Occasionally an extra or bit part actor would have a friendly chat with me round the back when things were quiet! Strangely some of them envied us (cable bashers) and thought we must be earning loads of money – ha!
My first day working at TVC was on 14th September 1970 on “Playschool” in TC7. Drug taking and sex seemed a million miles away when you were being shown how to zoom through the round window properly by pivoting! It never occurred to me that Big Ted and Little Ted might be alcoholics! It was great to finally operate a camera for the first time (also on Playschool) but my heart was pounding so hard I was sure they would pick it up on the boom. The Playschool presenters were very helpful and friendly and did talk to us, which was really nice! The first “live” camera I was to operate was on “24 Hours”! I was pulled off it at the last minute because some government Bigwig was going to be interviewed. There was some rule that when certain important people were appearing a “real” cameraman had to point at them. Later on I did make my first live broadcast on “24 Hours” – an experience I will never forget. Thinking how many million people would see every little mistake I made. All the time I was visualising a physical connection from the camera in my hands, down the cable, to the transmitter, into everyone’s home. Scary and it went fine, albeit with a minor headroom infringement bollocking!
The camera crews were all very different. Some were great and let juniors do a lot. I was sent to a crew where the SC never let me do anything but cable bashing and I quickly became very unhappy. I thought it best not to ask for a move (see John Henshall’s “TS” card) so I came up with the brilliant idea of volunteering for an “Inlay operator” attachment. I went to see Mr Lightbody, Head of Lighting (you couldn’t make it up!) and told him I was really interested in effects and would like to have an attachment. This did me a lot of good because he said no-one ever volunteers for this job and my phoney “enthusiasm” really paid off when I got off that crew the next week! I actually did enjoy the Inlay job and sitting in the production gallery was quite a treat. Playing around with the knobs one day during TOTP rehearsals I “invented” an effect that the director noticed and liked. Unfortunately an engineer soon came along and said it wasn’t “technically acceptable”. Oh well at least I tried.
I did a lot of cable bashing, tracking and swinging but very little operating in 5 years and promotion was years away based on “dead man’s shoes”! When, at an annual interview, I asked whether it was true that there was a promotion by merit system in operation as I had heard. I was told that there was but no-one had been promoted that way because we were all so equally good! Got to laugh (sorry Guys!)
So I transferred to BBC Bristol in 1975, still a Camera Assistant but actually operating cameras in the Studio or OBs most of the time. The environment was very different and more friendly. The “them and us” attitude at TVC didn’t seem to apply there and we ate and drank with presenters, producers and artists. It would be interesting to know if the other Regions were the same and that the “caste” system was unique to BBC London. There was a feeling then that London based BBC staff were unaware of the contribution that the BBC regions made and I think that is true. However I did miss the excitement and bustle of TVC and promotion was still years away, after 8 years now! In 1978 I saw a job for a Cameraman at HTV in Bristol advertised in the local Bristol Evening Post. I applied for, and got the job and overnight became a substantive “proper” cameraman on higher pay than at the BBC. I was the first person ever to make that move across the City. I felt a bit like a traitor but it had to be done.
But back to TVC. The place has lived with me all these years. For some time now I’ve been having dreams about being back there! There is something so magical about the place, the people, the programmes, the adrenaline buzz, sights, sounds and excitement that I experienced in the early 70s. I feel really privileged that I spent 5 years working there and I am also glad that I wasn’t there when it started rotting away. I felt really sad when I heard that Lime Grove had been demolished and there was never a proper tribute paid to its great days as a Film Studio and BBC studio centre.
“Tales of Television Centre” may not have been the film that us techs would have made (well I know it wouldn’t!) but it certainly stirred up some emotions and brought back memories for me. I wonder if there any possibility that some of the unused footage in the programme could be made available? There must be scope for a more comprehensive film to be cheaply made using existing footage from dozens of sources. In the meantime Bernie’s excellent tech-ops site is keeping the flag flying for TVC and tech-op’s memories. Fill it up with stories before we all forget!
Finally, I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw a big close up of myself, aged about 21, in the “Proles Canteen”. Finally got my 3 seconds of fame and really chuffed to be in the programme! This and some other footage came from a film documentary called “Behind the scenes at Television Centre” made in 71 or 72, I believe for children’s TV/education. I remember on the day seeing a crew with a film camera sat several tables away. I thought I was safely out of their sight but having shot this kind of stuff myself I now know they wait till you’re not looking at the camera and zoom in! I would love to see that documentary in its entirety again.
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