Pat Heigham
I enjoyed the John Wilson Prom, celebrating the work of George and Ira Gershwin, broadcast Saturday 13th August 2016.
I thought it a good balance, of a smaller band than he had before on previous concerts, and one could hear some of the lighter percussion, which often got drowned in the past.
Apart from one late fade on a vocal mic, overall a pretty good noise, and I was anxious to see who had been on the desk.
Disappointment – all we got was ‘The Sound Alliance’. Now, the vision and production depts. Were amply rewarded with names – so what have the BBC got against sound?
After all – this programme is hugely dependent on the audio, isn’t it?
Yours, irritated…
Ian Dow
You’d have been even more irritated a few years ago on a late night staged (opera or jazz?), prom only transmitted on Radio 3, when Bernie Davis got a lighting credit from the continuity announcer and the sound supervisor wasn’t mentioned!
Peter Neill
See: http://www.psneurope.com/sis-live-sound-mobile-bought-crew
“… After … SIS Live announced that it was pulling out of the outside broadcast market…The key audio vehicle was Mastersound, which had long been used on the BBC’s coverage of The Proms …
… the Stagetec Cantus-equipped mobile has been bought by former SIS Live sound supervisors Andy Payne and Matthew Charles. The pair [have] formed a company, the Sound Alliance, which will continue to operate the truck …”
Nick Ware
The Sound Alliance is a collective of SIS (formerly BBC OBs) sound guys who are the Proms BBC preferred supplier, and have done it for some years. Actually, a limited company set up following the demise of SIS by Sound Supervisor Andy Payne – about as experienced and capable a bunch of guys as you could hope to meet.
I imagine they choose to be credited as such as there are probably too many names to mention over the course of the Proms season. If they all had credits the roller would go on forever like ridiculously long feature film credits.
Covering the Proms, with all its different orchestra sizes and genre types, surround and stereo, for radio and TV, is a complex project with no one person ‘on the desk’.
www.soundonsound.com/techniques/bbc-proms gives you a good insight into it all.
Barry Bonner
Three very talented (oops! bragging – that’s a bad habit!) ex BBC Sound Supervisors (myself, Martin Eccles, and Tony Millier) were at the Proms last night (14 August 2016) to keep an ear on proceedings. We were in the gods so not the best place to listen and very warm, however, when I heard the recording at home in surround sound it was terrific, well done Andy Payne and his team. I believe it’s his choice not to have a list of credits. We go to the John Wilson concert each year and are never disappointed.
When I first got the job of sound supervisor, let alone a screen credit, I even got a Radio Times credit for “PlaySchool”! Nobody sent me any money though!
On the subject of credits, it’s very odd that the only person that doesn’t get a one on Question Time is the sound supervisor. That’s News and Current Affairs Dept. for you, not my favourite department who I’ve crossed swords with a few times in my career.
Dave Mundy
My first sound screen credit was for ‘See Hear’, a program for the DEAF!
Peter Neill
Many years ago my wife was working on a live OB – a church service for the deaf. Suddenly the SPG died and it was decided to continue in sound only.
Alasdair Lawrance
As a mere camera operator, can someone please tell me what "credits" are?
It’s a term I’ve not heard before…
Graeme Wall
Something to do with film I believe…
Geoff Fletcher
In my later years at Anglia TV, the Senior Cameraman got a credit on dramas (“Tales Of The Unexpected” (TOTU) for example), and on serials (PD James for example) it was sometimes the whole crew (only four cameramen on Anglia crews).
Film credits were as usual of course. At the BBC I believe that there were occasionally studio camera credits while I was there – I think the Senior Cameraman got a credit on Tony Palmer’s "Twice A Fortnight" but then again that might just be a memory glitch.
Tony Crake
I had a few Credits for the ‘Clothes Show’….. But these PSC inserts were always in extreme ‘slo mo’ in the final edit!
Dave Mundy
‘Slo mo’ sound was always verboten until Sky cricket insisted on it for ‘snicks’ etc. at the bowler’s end and the batsmen’s end of the wicket ! It even happened on BBC snooker, much to my disgust (hang your head in shame, Nigel Winchcombe!)
Roger Bunce
At the BBC, Senior Cameramen, and other formerly uncredited characters, such as Vision Mixers, first started to receive credits as of Monday 27th November 1978 – after some bloody trouble-maker had a go at Alasdair Milne, at a seminar, the previous Friday. The trouble-maker, of course, remained uncredited.
Graham Maunder
Yes, well done Roger!
I remember, when I joined, being horrified seeing the credits at the end of “Some Mother’s Do ‘Ave ’em” where the late, great Pete Ware and crew 13 provided 29 minutes 53 seconds of the programme from TVC but the ‘camera’ credit went to Reg Pope for a 7 second shot of ‘Frank’ leaving the house!
Peter Fox
At least Peter’s less than one year daughter Emma Ware got a credit as the baby!
Graeme Wall
And a very fine performance it was too!
I seem to remember one series where the film cameraman got a credit every week for the title sequence, which was shot in the studio on VT!
Keith Salmon
We have been fighting for credits for years. Here is my article to ‘Ariel’ on the 9th April 1975:
(shown large size)
Roger Long
When I arrived at TFS Ealing from Bush my obit appeared in ‘Aerial’!
The ultimate credit.
Alec Bray
As far as I recall – and this is where I need help and clarification(!) – drama and situation comedies in the 1960s had to have at least one film insert – it was something to do with an agreement with the ACTT. This meant that there was usually a very short insert on film. Now, there were some OUTSIDE type shots shot with TV cameras in the studio ("Z-Cars" for example, and a "Dixon" where we had a Bedford Bus – and these meant Back Projection taking up lots of floor space) and INDOOR type shots shot on film (just ‘cos there had to be a film insert.)..The characteristics of film stock and IO cameras were quite different – especially gamma – and it was a nightmare for Vision Control to try to match the two sources. It would have been a better – technical – solution to use OB cameras, not film.The annoying thing was that by custom and practice (and the weight of the ACTT), the cameraman on the film insert ALWAYS got a credit – and the studio cameramen never.There were times when the film credit made sense: A. A. Englander for example, on "Quatermass and the Pit", which, I believe, was shot on film.
David Brunt
I don’t think it was a hard and fast rule to insist on having one film insert.There’s a small number of early “Z Cars” episodes where the only film used was the opening titles. The rest was done live in studio. Not even a car backing stock film.
I can think of a few early “Steptoe and Son”s that had no film work at all – “The Offer” and “The Piano”, for two.
There was a larger than usual amount of film work on “Quatermass and the Pit”, hence the film credit (the ‘pit’ scenes mainly). The bulk of the episodes were done live from Lime Grove.
“Cathy Come Home” almost managed to be an all-film production but the unions insisted on there being at least one studio recorded scene so the studio crews didn’t lose any work. It sticks out like a sore thumb in there too.
Roger Bunce
There is a wonderful Monty Python sketch, "This room is surrounded by film!", which lampoons the cut from studio to film whenever a character stepped out of doors.
on YouTube:
Monty Python Royal Society for Putting Things on top of other things legendas
(Click on the picture below to see larger version:
use your Browser’s BACK button to return to this page)
I don’t think that there was ever a ruling that obliged programmes to have a film insert. It was just easier to shoot exteriors on film, because video equipment was still large and cumbersome – particularly the recorders. It just wasn’t worth booking an entire O.B. Unit for a brief shot of someone walking from the front door to the car. So they did it on 16mm film which, by the time it was copied onto VT, looked awful! Things improved slightly when Super-16 Film was introduced.
Film was also a much more expensive way of shooting anything (partly because of ACTT rates – but also because of the larger crews, stock costs and the time taken) so the use of film was generally kept to a minimum. Where possible, exteriors were constructed in the studio (e.g. the Z-Car).
I haven’t seen “Cathy Come Home” recently, but I can’t believe that any Union insisted on a studio insert. The Union in studios was the ABS, who never operated a closed shop, or any restrictive practices, and never insisted on anything (only fighting back when attacked) – unlike the ACTT who dominated BBC Film Dept. – and ITV – and the freelance sector. “Quatermass and the Pit” was mostly shot in the studio, but it did include some very memorable film sequences, involving effects which would have been difficult to have achieved ‘as live’.
The giving of credits to Film Cameramen, and not to Studio Cameramen, may have been partly on ACTT insistence, but also because BBC Management believed that Lighting was much more important than Camerawork. Film Cameramen was always regarded as ‘Lighting Cameramen’, even if that walk from the front door to the car was in broad daylight, and no extra lights were required.
Senior Studio Cameramen began to receive screen credits, as of Monday 27th November, 1978, and I’ve already told you that story.
I think one of the first studio-based dramas to use video exteriors was Doctor Who’s "Robot" in 1974. (Does anyone know of an earlier one?) The exteriors were shot at the BBC’s Engineering Training Department, Wood Norton, using an OB two-camera drama insert unit (I think). The fact that both interiors and exteriors were shot on video meant that CSO could used to combine location backgrounds with studio foregrounds. (Joining video and film together with CSO happened occasionally, complete with grain and gate weave, and was even uglier than cutting from video to film!)
The idea that "the Unions" were resistant to change, or insisted that things were done in the traditional way, is utter rubbish. As cameras and recorders became light enough to be used for exterior inserts, it was studio Camera Crews, good Union members all, who were most keen to use the new techniques, while Management dragged their heels and made excuses (there might be objections from OBs – there might be objections from Film Dept. etc.) Most who-does-what disputes in the BBC did not come from the Unions. They came from the Management of different departments, who were trying to preserve their own petty empires. The Management of the Lighting Section were particularly resistant to Studio Cameramen doing single-camera exterior work, just in case we got ‘ideas above our station’ and tried to become Lighting Cameramen!
Alasdair Lawrance
I may be wrong, but did ACTT not cover Transmitter staff? In dispute that would be quite an asset.
Dave Plowman
I don’t remember any *had* to be some film inserts. But if you wanted exteriors, you had little option. I think things like titles were often on film as production of those was more versatile in early video days. And telecine machines were in bigger supply than VTRs.
If you had lengthy dialogue etc inside a car, it would make sense to do it in the studio. Obviously, exterior shots of the car driving along the road couldn’t really be done like this.
ACTT was basically a film union, until it got involved with ITV. And ITV didn’t control its transmitters – that was the IBA.
Of course those not exactly enchanted with the ABS joined all sorts of other unions. Seem to remember some engineers joining the ETU. And getting referred to as plumbers.
Bernie Newnham
I didn’t realise that Ealing were largely ACTT, I thought they were just largely pains in the bum, often as not on overtime before the day started.My first experience of "not Ealing" was a trip to Gateshead, on a kids Pres film. I rang Ealing for a crew and was told " a days travel, an overnight, a days filming, an overnight, a days travel". I said that we didn’t have that kind of budget, didn’t they have any up north crews? Apparently not. So I rang Newcastle where they would have been happy to provide a crew except they were all busy. Just asking was against the rules. Newcastle said " We do know a very good freelance crew in Carlisle – here’s the number". So I rang them, and they said yes, we’ll just drive across on the day. This was really against the rules.Simon Parkin and I flew up in the morning. The plane was a little delayed and when we got to the school which was the venue, the event had started. The cameraman said: "We’ve been filming the event, I hope that’s OK". You’d never get that from Ealing. My bosses hid the costs somehow, and I thought "never again". It was incidents like that which, when Producer Choice came along, meant that none of us used Ealing again.I could whitter on with more Ealing stories, but you get the picture.
Roger Long
ACTT was not recognised by Film Department, ABS was, this was BBC policy.
Film was not more expensive than a full OB crew, the costing system was arbitrary anyhow, a sort of guide for production, funny monopoly money.
16mm print was inferior to VT, but Super 16 with neg transfer to VT was not, and 35mm neg transfer certainly was not. If only the BBC had used 35 mm more the archive would have been far superior, like Hollywood, but most TVs were 21” or less then and design and make up/hair would have cost more.
There were agreements on studio inserts in film drama, I remember directors like Ken Loach/Tony Garnett, Potter /Trodd railing against them, perhaps Equity /ABS,/Natke ?
Multi camera studio and single camera film never matched, neither did Sennheiser, Nagra, Sondor Mag match AKG and Ampex VTR, in my opinion. It was fun trying though.
Roger Bunce
I’d always assumed that Ealing techies were ACTT and that was why they enjoyed such luxurious pay and conditions e.g. everything after 5.30 pm is paid at overtime rate, even if the shoot didn’t start until after 5.30! If they were ABS, why didn’t the same silly rules apply in studios and OBs?
The ACTT certainly operated a closed shop across the rest of the British Film industry. No one got a job out there without showing their ticket. So, if an Ealing Cameraman fancied a few days moonlighting, he’d have to be in the ACTT and, likewise, if Ealing wanted to use a freelance, or to recruit experienced staff, they’d have to accept ACTT members. Maybe BBC Management didn’t officially recognise the ACTT as a negotiating Union, but, out of practical necessity, they had to employ their members and pay their rates.
16mm film was a perfectly reasonable format, when using a projector and a screen in the village hall. It only really looked bad when copied onto VT, when film grain and TV line structure compounded one another. Ironically, many of the old dramas which have survived the BBC’s video tape wiping policy, have done so because they were film recorded, for export to countries which lacked VT machines. In these programmes, the cuts from video to film are far less objectionable, because the video has been downgraded to (almost) match!
35mm film was often used for title sequences, and to film record the last few minutes of a studio-based serial, so that it could be repeated at the beginning of the next episode, without having to remount the whole scene.
Pat Heigham
In the 1960s and earlier, ACT (at that time, one T) had a stranglehold on the Film Industry for rates and conditions.
Re the closed shop:
It seemed to be a classic ‘Catch 22’ situation. One could not work in the industry unless you had a ticket, and one could not obtain a ticket until one worked in the industry.
I spotted a shortcut – ACTT (by then) were keen to operate a BBC shop, even though it was not recognised by management. I joined, to get a ticket, as I wanted to work in the Feature industry. When leaving the Corporation, I just rang ACTT’s membership office and announced that I was now freelance and ‘how much more subscription would they like!’
So I obtained a full ticket and enjoyed a splendid career in Features, until the power of the Unions was destroyed by Maggie.
There was one incident – on a film to be shot in Amsterdam – 12 weeks work, where the ACTT were unhappy with the deal. On arriving at the unit hotel, the Prod Mixer said "Don’t unload the van, it might not happen". The ACTT rep came out to hold a meeting with the crew. As it was a period of little happening in the industry, we all wanted to work, and it was organised that Les Wiles was collected at the airport, dined and very much wined before the meeting, where we all swore blind that we were happy with the deal. Once the producer had clocked that we had cut the ropes of ACTT control, he took us for a ride: night shooting would have meant massive payments, and there was a fair bit scheduled. We were paid just an extra £10 per night (1970-ish) and really worked to bits.
It was worth working on that film as the Production Mixer was booked for “Fiddler on the Roof “ (halfway through, and wanted his same crew). That brought me nearly a year’s work and bought my flat!
Re 16mm film:
Film inserts on 16mm looked awful compared to studio generated vision, albeit 405 line – gate weave being the most obvious difference.
In the 1960s we all agreed that the best rendition to TV was 35mm telecine. This was obviously expensive (stock/lab costs etc) and worse when moving to colour but by then there were colour mobile TV units available.
Dave Plowman
I was one of quite a few who moved from the BBC (ABS) to Thames TV in the mid 1970s. And I had no problem getting my ACTT ticket once there. But I’d guess the local ACTT shop had agreed to recruitment of trained people from outside the ACTT.
I’m actually quite in favour of a closed shop – assuming arrangements are made for those who have a worthwhile objection to being in a union in principle.
No-one got an ACTT ticket without being at least competent in that grade. So it was useful for anyone looking to employ, say, a freelance, unlike today where anyone can call themselves a cameraman or whatever.
Geoff Fletcher
Same applied to me when I moved to Anglia TV in 1970 – no problem in getting an ACTT ticket.
Alasdair Lawrance, Graeme Wall
When I went to Grampian, an ACTT ticket wasn’t a problem. Nor at Southern.
Roger Long
TFS staff were day workers, i.e. 0930-1730 hrs.
Tech Ops were irregular hour workers with a 15 % uplift.
Overtime stated at T + 1/4 for the first 5 hours and then T +1/2 for the continuance, there were penalty payments as in irregular hour working but not as many. Overtime varied enormously, Irregular hour 15% uplift did not.
We had time and motion studies on film work and even McKenzie consultants viewing our working hours/conditions but we never became irregular hours.
If you fancied work in the Film Industry, you applied for an ACTT card, this was quite easy at TFS, but ACTT was not recognised in any way.
Holiday relief crews were ACTT, no one ever attempted industrial action.
TV Studio and OB works were very heavily planned and manned, many film productions were ad hoc with only the outline plan, most documentary shoots were organic with small crews and portable rather than transportable kit.
Ealing had nearly 100 crews and were the biggest users of film stock outside Hollywood.
The Regions obviously covered their patch and had freelancers working into them as well as staff crews, there was redundancy built into crewing but summer peaks needed external supply. It was common to travel by train from TFS to the North and pick up a Godfrey Davis hire car at the station, the Railway was used for Red Star film rushes and extra kit delivery all over the UK, internal flights in the 1960s were limited, but we did many light plane flights to remote and exciting venues, but mostly it was in trusty Austin Westminsters or Cambridges with Mulliner camera platforms strapped to the roofs or the dreaded Commer van or Door-mobile all in their dark green livery and ‘Nation Shall Speak Peace unto Nation’ logo.
Many cameramen took the initiative for the shoot, one cameraman I admired had covered the bones of the story on his trusty Bolex or Silent Arri before production had unpacked. Talent varied tremendously from grizzled old Newsreel guys to dashing handheld Eclair NPR tyros who changed mags without stopping the camera. They always said a production gets the cameraman they deserve, there was something in this truism.
35mm was wonderful, “Champion House” was the first drama I worked on after moving to Ealing from Bush, that was on 35 monochrome , seeing it in a preview theatre was astonishing.
Many BBC/US productions were in 35mm and they looked stunning.
All TK film recording was 35 mm and we see plenty of archive from that format, but native 35mm was superior to 405 and 625 in my opinion.
Bernie Newnham
I have so many Ealing stories… I just point out that Ealing closed pretty quickly once Producer Choice got going, so I imagine I’m far from the only one.
As for getting the cameraman you deserve – how would Ealing bookings know what I deserve? Sometimes you got an excellent crew, but for us that was an exception. Not surprisingly the Brian Tufanos of this world had been booked months before.
When the ex-studios Lime Grove crews came along we all (Pres) asked there first. Good reliable crews and a 10 hour day door to door. Always a pleasant day out.
…one sample story. I was making a film about location breakfast for “Breakfast Time”. The crew, booked for much earlier, turned up after breakfast was done. Profuse grovelling apologies? Nah! Film screwed? Yes!
…and there was the day at Duxford. The shortest day of the year, but perfect conditions. I asked the cameraman if they could keep lunch short, but he said they were due an hour for lunch. "Ok, see you in an hour." "No, that’s when we get to the pub." "Where’s the pub?" "Don’t know."
…and, and……
Roger Long
TFS closed in1996, Producer Choice started around 1990: many service departments had long gone then, all Regional Film Units and OBs had closed in 1992.
Many film crew spent 220 days on the road and meal breaks were always eroded by eager productions and their 2 day shoots.
How many times did a young PA give me a Mars bar, a packet of crisps or perhaps a sandwich for a grabbed 20 minute lunch on some blasted heath ?
Ealing crews could be bolshy, it was a rather political place, however Bristol was very friendly, but we were still unceremoniously dumped along with the OB crews: I saw rigger drivers crying in the club…
Many never survived the brave new world of the freelancer.
We carried on working for BBC ‘clients’ and working conditions became almost stupid and dangerous, travel time was not considered working time and the distances were great and variable, BECTU was meaningless.
For all the Screwed by Ealing stories there are the lunatic Lime Grove Panic and Drama tales of inept and dodgy current affairs producers that probably were the root of TFS grumpiness.
Pat Heigham
There was an amusing episode, just after I left the Corp and went freelance.
“Clapperboard” needed some I/V material of Keith Michell who was filming “Henry VIII” at Elstree in 1972 (the old BIP studios, not MGM). BBC camera crews were denied access, so a freelance ACTT ticketed crew was booked, of which I was part (think Tony Leggo was cameraman). As soon as we drew up, a spitting image of Peter Sellers’ character, Fred Kite, complete with cloth cap and muffler, announced himself as the shop steward: "Mornin’ bruvvers, can I see your Union cards?" I was the only one who had his with him, but he was happy with taking names to check with head office. He then said that he wished us a good day and if he could help in any way, then completely spoilt it by saying: "Don’t forget, I can stop you shooting!" We just could not believe it!
However, ACTT were not the most militant union, NATKE were more so, and the sparks could be relied upon to pull the breakers if the day looked to be overunning. Thames TV – I frequently worked on short contacts for the Film Unit out of Euston and I heard that another crew got into trouble with management when working on a doc about Shire horses (think it won a BAFTA). Following the covering of a brood mare by the stallion, the next major event would be the actual birth of the foal. As this could happen at any time, the crew spent all night at the stables to capture the moment, and faked their timesheets, so as not to reflect the overtime. When the film admin office discovered, all hell broke loose! Luckily the crew cared more for the programme project than management did. Another stupidity occurred at Thames – when the stereo Nagra came in, the concept of a second track to record radio mikes separately from the boom, was deemed useful by the recordists – however, the transfer operators demanded double pay for transferring rushes to two separate tracks, and when told that was out of the question, insisted that the recordist chose which track to be used! What would have been the outcome had today’s multi-track digital recorders been around!
Roger Bunce
"Luckily the crew cared more for the programme project than management did."
Now there’s a phrase that accurately sums up all parts of the BBC, in my experience. It should be carved on their headstone!
Roger Francis
My understanding was that you could only have a credit if you had had to do some planning. Certainly this was the case with studio staff. This was why Senior Cameraman didn’t get a credit until they started going to planning meetings.
Added to this was the costing system. Studios and OBs were at a disadvantage compared with Ealing because of this. I don’t know the details but a director confessed to me that it was far more relaxing doing an Ealing shoot because they got far more time. As a result she far preferred it.
There was also rivalry between different departments. As I understand it when “EastEnders” started and production wanted the same crew to do both studio and location, Kendal Avenue objected because all work outside belonged to them. An agreement was reached which allowed the studio crew to do the location work as long as it was within a day’s drive of Elstree and no overnights were involved. I think that very early on Production ignored this.
Nick Ware
I always assumed that freelancers got credits because their livelihoods depended on them, whereas if you were staff, the only person who cared was your Mum.
Then, when I went freelance, I was more interested in holiday credits than screen credits, because the former you could pay into the bank, whereas the latter you couldn’t.
Peter Neill
Can any freelance on this forum honestly say that they’ve got a single job because of a screen credit?
I’ve been freelancing for the last 15 years (albeit in a role that doesn’t merit a credit) and I’ve always been given jobs by people who know me, or on personal recommendation.
Nick Ware
I can without hesitation answer yes to that.
An ex Guildford School of Art, Film & TV student of mine got a job as a camera assistant, later becoming a cameraman at CBS News, and a few years later saw my sound credit on a Channel Four music documentary series. He contacted me via the production company, and then for nearly 25 years, the bulk of my most rewarding work was with him on “60 Minutes”.
I saw most parts of the World, flew business or first class wherever we went, stayed in some of the World’s most luxurious hotels, visited war zones, got shot at in Israel, got thrown in jail in Gaza, and a host of other adventures.
That one credit paid off my mortgage ten years early, and none of that would have happened without it.
But you are right, building a client base on personal recommendation is what really matters.
The one and only job I ever got through a diary service was simply because the producer/director lived in a neighbouring village and thought it would be cheaper to use someone local. I went to see him at his house as requested, and when he opened the door he was stark naked! – I left.
John Vincent
I was tracked down by the organisers of a 50 year school year reunion through my screen credit. They sent a letter addressed to “John Vincent, Cameraman, BBC”.
It found its way to my pigeon hole quite quickly. That was when we had a BBC Postal Department (I think that’s what it was called).
Peter Neill
BBC guidelines state that credits should only be given when someone has made a "significant creative contribution" to a programme.
I’ve always thought that the whole credit thing is a bit of a nonsense.
Dave Mundy
Agreed, especially the standby carpenter, the trainee driver etc. , even David Cameron’s wife’s stylist gets an award, but not the cat, which really upset me.
