Mike Jordan
This evening (Sunday 20th July 2014) I went to BBC London News at about 19:00. Having moved from the HD Network version and happy with audio levels, the SD version (necessary as no HD BBC London on Sky) was extremely low level audio.
Here we go again I thought – must be the distribution or coding system at fault.
However when they went to a VT insert (what do we call it nowadays? “a server-based insert”?) it went back to the proper level and interestingly, in the middle of the insert, there was an obvious “voice-over” from the studio presenter. And guess what? It was at the low level.
Quite obviously no-one in the studio is watching levels nor anyone ensuring levels are matched before and after opt-outs.
Dave Plowman
I seem to recall being told that some of the weekend London bulletins aren’t live, but a package made in an ‘edit suite’…. which of course could be while on the bog these days.
Peter Combes
A fellow expatriate wonders if the term “bog standard” was invented by BBC cynics from “Lew Grade” (“lew” => “loo” => “bog” and “grade” => “standard”).
Mike Giles
I was well used to the expression from an early age ~ certainly long before I had ever heard of Lew Grade ~ I always thought that it was simply a bog standard phrase!
Jeff Booth
Just for info, the London ‘opts’ happen downstream of Red Bee. I recall the switch is thrown at Tunbridge Wells. The switch is thrown by a ‘person’ as the ND counts in/out of opts (although it could just be the local work experience oik who actually does it).
Muxing is also in the BBC domain (Siemens/Atos).
Eventually the BBC will (I assume) install full HD at regions so eventually each region will have its own local news in HD (and therefore its own HD channel on Sky etc.). Currently London goes everywhere (with the caption added for local news opts) which is why you have to switch to SD for the local stuff (including London).
John Howell
I have just watched the Southeast News (Tuesday, July 22, 2014) and trails that follow into “The One Show” and I didn’t have to touch the volume buttons once. It was a delight to listen to, everything was crisp and clear, crossfades were smooth and if equalisation had been used on the mics it was not obvious.
The only slight niggle was the first minute or so of the final item about ‘Fun Palaces’ was a tad quiet. The trails that followed didn’t blow me out of my seat and eventually up came “The One Show” titles atjust the right level.
Well done to those concerned, but why isn’t always this good?
Ian Hillson
There have been a couple of occasions in the past few weeks (July 2014) when Southeast News have opted in to the Main News menu, added their couple of local item sentences and out again during that continuous graphic loop as they should. Then for some reason, pressed the button again to reveal people standing around in their studio!
Mike Jordan
We were watching “Every Breath We Take” on BBC4. Quite good audio but the lady presenter did quite a lot to camera while walking around. I would guess she was on Radio but no sign of the mic and completely muffled – perhaps by her over large scarf/coat/etc.
At times, she did voiceovers to her walk and that was crystal clear – obviously done in post. Surely the sound recordist (if there was one) could have insisted the mic was in the clear to make her sound decent. It was so bad that even in post it could never have been recovered.
What is going on?
On a slightly different tack, when I do the audio for my local school show with “Britney” headsets on the radio mics, I always insist that the actual mic should NEVER be in contact with the flesh to stop scrapes etc. I notice that on “The One Show” which is coming from PQ is using these for some reason (looks stupid) and they are forced against the presenters/guests faces.
Isn’t this bad practice?
John Howell
When I was doing VOs to mix in with ‘muffled sync’ I will confess to muffling the VOs a little to reduce the quality difference, but not so much as to make the whole thing naff.Do you suppose it’s a case of ‘oh they’ve got a digital desk in Post, they’ll be able to put that right’?I suspect the headsets are used in “The One Show” on location to keep colouration from the PA system to a minimum, also the presenters do turn and talk over their shoulders rather a lot so at least these mics move with them. I can’t comment on the skin contact point.
Dave Plowman
I’ve used a personal mic in the dubbing suite for VOs if it’s the same presenter – and the location stuff is to a reasonable standard.
I do wonder if the desks they use now on the likes of news have got the eq buried down pages of menus. Or whoever is forbidden to tweak it. After all, it’s in most of our memories when tweaking a mic’s response was frowned on. These things come round again.
Also brings to mind C28 attenuators, with a switch to roll off the top end so they sounded like a 4033.
Alan Stokes
It seems fairly general when making documentaries etc., to hide the mic under clothing. Also, there is an element of a windshield as well.
I saw the “Every Breath We Take” programme last night and I suspect the mic was very high up under the chin somewhere. It might depend on what was being worn but even in studios, where I was based, if the mic is up under the chin (because of a polo-neck for instance) to keep it ‘in the clear’, it does give the audio a very throaty and unpleasant quality. By the time it gets to the dub – what’s that? some newcomers might ask, though I’m sure Bernie’s students down the road here in Kingston would know better! – it is too late and, as John says, you sometimes would gently degrade VOs to make less of a jump in quality.
When I was mixing the studio scenes for “Last Of The Summer Wine”, the location film/VT was obviously picked up on Radio Mics but they were, most of the time sounding quite good. I asked about the position and was told that the mics (Sony ECM50/77/??) were in a cage and in the knot of the tie. So there are exceptions to the ‘under the chin’ if you are careful.
Dave Plowman
I remember dubbing a soap where the scene was basically two people on a park bench on radios sitting close together. It was supplied split tracks. One of the mics had several splats – but only on that person’s dialogue (as of course is always the case ;-). So I effectively swapped them – using the ‘off mic’ from each one throughout. Which also gave a more natural sound – not that far from what a boom would sound like. Luckily it was a gentle scene with no overlaps.
Dave Mundy
I see that, on the Commonwealth Games Opening, poor old Liz McColgan is wearing one of those awful ‘zit’ mics – at least it doesn’t have a black windshield as sometimes happens, but it does look like a festering boil! Yuk! Nothing wrong with a ECM77 correctly positioned! (plus the advantage of getting to know one’s interviewee better! Gordon Rolls eat your heart out!).
Alasdair Lawrance, Dave Plowman
Sound levels between different channels are so subjectively different. But there’s nothing subjective about it. A PPM clearly shows the difference you’re hearing – let alone these fancy ‘loudness’ meters which were supposed to sort all this out.
John Howell
There is also the psychological aspect to perceived loudness. For example if the title music appears for a show you happen to dislike it is probable you will consider it too loud. Or, if you find a drama exciting and enjoy its storyline you may like the sound levels higher, even a different balance between dialogue, effects and incidental music.
The person straining to hear whilst washing up in the kitchen would not agree with your choice. (OK, OK, buy a tele for the kitchen!). A whisper peaking PPM6 can sound quieter than a shout peaking PPM1. I don’t know of any meter that will show these differences.
Dave Plowman
This is very true. But in 99.5% of the cases it is a simple level difference.
It suits those in charge to come up with all sorts of fancy explanations to try and cover up what in most cases is easily explained.
One of the most obvious is BBC London news following the national news. There is frequently (not always) a difference of up to 8dB between the peak level of the newsreaders.
It doesn’t much worry me if the poignant end to a drama is followed by a brash LE show – I’m happy to alter levels at home for that. But between two newscasts?
Mike Cotton
“London Live” – this is from 29th July 2014 “Daily Telegraph” Business section. The article says they are trying to lower the local content as economic realities bite 1.2 m people watched for at least 1 minute each week.
Is the desk turned off to give such a PPM reading?
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John Howell (Hibou)
On a modern commercial desk the PPMs don’t fall back after an over-mod until the operator has inserted the required number of Pound coins. This man appears to be complying with the rules.
Dave Plowman, Ian Hillson
“That’s a bit unfair considering he’s probably on an internship.”
“…Evening Standard attacked for offering “London Live” unpaid internship as prize…”
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Pat Heigham
I would like for Hibou’s idea of feeding the desk with £1 coins to go one further, if the levels are correct, then one gets a jackpot from the main o/p fader! I’m sure that Canford would make a 1U coin delivery cup.
A story – true:
Whilst on location for “007 The Man with the Golden Gun”, we had to collect FX in the exotic setting of the floating casino in Macao. Miking up a fruit machine, the Production Mixer Gordon Everett said to me: ‘You roll the Nagra, I’ll put the dollars in’. With the first coin, the jackpot came up! Exhibiting true professionalism, his face beaming with delight, Gordie never uttered a word until the reverberation of the very last coin had finished echoing round the delivery cup!
John Howell (Hibou)
Nice idea, but we are back to the age old problem of who says what the ‘correct’ levels are! Or I suppose in this case who writes the algorithm for the correct levels.
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