From ted123kent at gmail.com  Mon Apr  1 04:38:42 2024
From: ted123kent at gmail.com (Edward Kent)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2024 10:38:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Andre Rieu Concerts
In-Reply-To: <ec48e098-a33e-4a1a-a2de-17b94d09011f@gmail.com>
References: <ec48e098-a33e-4a1a-a2de-17b94d09011f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJqjnLixt5QYL-nvdE+uUcLSd1L3+u=uC4a2cQubtDazqRFXCA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi PATRICK
Yes I watched it and have seen many of his videos on Sky Arts. Mostly they
are post covid but some of the very early ones are very poorly made. There
is one where the camera one is always zooming in and out.
I think they use a mixture of live and recorded music. Certainly there were
two cases where a mic went down and there was an interesting exchange
between Andre and the solo soprano about getting a new mic plugged in. It
was obviously  buried in the depths of her party dress as Andre
 calls them.
I did wonder as they switched to different  locations with the same music
track how they kept it all in sync.
I wanted to go to see a live performance  at Wembly this year but have
delayed it because of knee operation. I am talk and find seating difficult.
Cheers Ted


On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, 16:37 PATRICK HEIGHAM via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Just wondered if any sound people viewed the Andre Rieu concert, broadcast
> on Sky Arts today.
>
> He is a Dutch violinist who runs a large orchestra, giving concerts around
> the world.
>
> This one was from the Vienna Town Hall, and I could not spot any mics - so
> intriged.
>
> Some of the others, including one fromSch?nbrunn Palace in Vienna - open
> air and
> no chance of slung mics, but I have seen floor stands mics hidden in the
> orch on other
> shows.
>
> His home studio, from short clips, is most beautifully equipped, so he
> cares about sound.
>
> Happy Easter
>
> Pat H
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Tue Apr  2 04:51:30 2024
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2024 10:51:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Blue Peter 1963
In-Reply-To: <CAA0HHB0d6U=mhCqXXkhpuocazRgD64hxWYW47UGtNbdVR2BRzg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA0HHB0d6U=mhCqXXkhpuocazRgD64hxWYW47UGtNbdVR2BRzg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67cd42f2-8166-46e6-a011-75d2df205198@gmail.com>

Hi all,

"Blue Peter" from 1963 - a picture from Facebook.

I recognise the cameraman on Camera 2, but can not remember his name - 
sorry!

Studio E Lime Grove ?? It's either D or E.

Best regards,

Alec
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From patrick.heigham at gmail.com  Tue Apr  2 05:44:15 2024
From: patrick.heigham at gmail.com (PATRICK HEIGHAM)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2024 11:44:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Blue Peter 1963
In-Reply-To: <67cd42f2-8166-46e6-a011-75d2df205198@gmail.com>
References: <CAA0HHB0d6U=mhCqXXkhpuocazRgD64hxWYW47UGtNbdVR2BRzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67cd42f2-8166-46e6-a011-75d2df205198@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <389d81fb-e7f4-4a3e-9b79-d8d249af7e91@gmail.com>

Cam 2 - suggest: might be Martin Dilly?

Pat

Has anyone got crew lists from that era?

On 02/04/2024 10:51, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> "Blue Peter" from 1963 - a picture from Facebook.
>
> I recognise the cameraman on Camera 2, but can not remember his name - 
> sorry!
>
> Studio E Lime Grove ?? It's either D or E.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Alec
>
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From hughsheppard at btinternet.com  Tue Apr  2 05:47:01 2024
From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2024 11:47:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Blue Peter 1963
In-Reply-To: <389d81fb-e7f4-4a3e-9b79-d8d249af7e91@gmail.com>
References: <CAA0HHB0d6U=mhCqXXkhpuocazRgD64hxWYW47UGtNbdVR2BRzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67cd42f2-8166-46e6-a011-75d2df205198@gmail.com>
	<389d81fb-e7f4-4a3e-9b79-d8d249af7e91@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <637eb375-028d-4ffe-b68b-c781ea30a8d1@btinternet.com>

That was my first reaction too.

Hugh

On 02/04/2024 11:44, PATRICK HEIGHAM via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Cam 2 - suggest: might be Martin Dilly?
>
> Pat
>
> Has anyone got crew lists from that era?
>
> On 02/04/2024 10:51, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> "Blue Peter" from 1963 - a picture from Facebook.
>>
>> I recognise the cameraman on Camera 2, but can not remember his name 
>> - sorry!
>>
>> Studio E Lime Grove ?? It's either D or E.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Alec
>>
>
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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Tue Apr  2 05:54:05 2024
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2024 11:54:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Blue Peter 1963
In-Reply-To: <389d81fb-e7f4-4a3e-9b79-d8d249af7e91@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mobh5kmuvmvoqtmgkbt5k4ai.1712055245381@pgtmedia.co.uk>

It's on the website!




http://tech-ops.co.uk/next/staff-lists/

Paul Thackray

?

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

+44 7802 243979

Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk

?

Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/



	? Original Message ?	


From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 2 April 2024 11:44
To: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Reply to: patrick.heigham at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Blue Peter 1963


Cam 2 - suggest: might be Martin Dilly?

Pat

Has anyone got crew lists from that era?


On 02/04/2024 10:51, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:

Hi all,

"Blue Peter" from 1963 - a picture from Facebook.

I recognise the cameraman on Camera 2, but can not remember his name - sorry!

Studio E Lime Grove ?? It's either D or E.

Best regards,

Alec


From jccglass at gmail.com  Tue Apr  2 06:38:07 2024
From: jccglass at gmail.com (Chris laptop on GMail)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2024 12:38:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Blue Peter 1963
In-Reply-To: <637eb375-028d-4ffe-b68b-c781ea30a8d1@btinternet.com>
References: <CAA0HHB0d6U=mhCqXXkhpuocazRgD64hxWYW47UGtNbdVR2BRzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67cd42f2-8166-46e6-a011-75d2df205198@gmail.com>
	<389d81fb-e7f4-4a3e-9b79-d8d249af7e91@gmail.com>
	<637eb375-028d-4ffe-b68b-c781ea30a8d1@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <dc956e0f-22dd-418a-9540-7c1a5c494a2a@gmail.com>

re crew list martin dilly was on crew 3 in 1962? with eddie Stuart

when almost every one was acting


but 1965 martin was on crew16 with ken Major


dont have1963



From jccglass at gmail.com  Tue Apr  2 06:51:22 2024
From: jccglass at gmail.com (Chris laptop on GMail)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2024 12:51:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Blue Peter 1963
In-Reply-To: <67cd42f2-8166-46e6-a011-75d2df205198@gmail.com>
References: <CAA0HHB0d6U=mhCqXXkhpuocazRgD64hxWYW47UGtNbdVR2BRzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67cd42f2-8166-46e6-a011-75d2df205198@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6b8db35-112c-4a8c-a4b3-523ac2f0316d@gmail.com>

re studio for blue peter 1963

most probably D (easy access to lift? for Elephants?)

as my? diary for monday 21 oct 1963 confirms

a long day in D 9;30 to 11pm bp followed by come dancing links


chris Glass



From geoffletch at gmail.com  Wed Apr  3 06:47:24 2024
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 12:47:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Blue Peter 1963
In-Reply-To: <389d81fb-e7f4-4a3e-9b79-d8d249af7e91@gmail.com>
References: <CAA0HHB0d6U=mhCqXXkhpuocazRgD64hxWYW47UGtNbdVR2BRzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67cd42f2-8166-46e6-a011-75d2df205198@gmail.com>
	<389d81fb-e7f4-4a3e-9b79-d8d249af7e91@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0CF2C666-A4B0-4062-A4A7-C5AAE76266F3@gmail.com>

Camera 3 op looks like Ron Peveral to me.
Geoff F

> On 2 Apr 2024, at 11:44, PATRICK HEIGHAM via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Cam 2 - suggest: might be Martin Dilly?
> 
> Pat
> 
> Has anyone got crew lists from that era?
> 
> On 02/04/2024 10:51, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
>> Hi all, 
>> 
>> "Blue Peter" from 1963 - a picture from Facebook. 
>> 
>> I recognise the cameraman on Camera 2, but can not remember his name - sorry! 
>> 
>> Studio E Lime Grove ?  It's either D or E. 
>> 
>> Best regards, 
>> 
>> Alec
>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From geoffletch at gmail.com  Wed Apr  3 06:52:11 2024
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 12:52:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Blue Peter 1963
In-Reply-To: <d6b8db35-112c-4a8c-a4b3-523ac2f0316d@gmail.com>
References: <CAA0HHB0d6U=mhCqXXkhpuocazRgD64hxWYW47UGtNbdVR2BRzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67cd42f2-8166-46e6-a011-75d2df205198@gmail.com>
	<d6b8db35-112c-4a8c-a4b3-523ac2f0316d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E904A5A2-AA24-4428-8ACD-71D2774AACFF@gmail.com>

Here is the Crew List for1 vMay 1962. The crew in the photo is almost certainly Crew 3.


Geoff F


> On 2 Apr 2024, at 12:51, Chris laptop on GMail via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> re studio for blue peter 1963
> 
> most probably D (easy access to lift  for Elephants?)
> 
> as my  diary for monday 21 oct 1963 confirms
> 
> a long day in D 9;30 to 11pm bp followed by come dancing links
> 
> 
> chris Glass
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From mibridge at mac.com  Wed Apr  3 17:41:00 2024
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 23:41:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Kevin White
In-Reply-To: <3ED37C9C-0893-4AFB-A68B-372A623CF2E5@micbooster.com>
References: <3ED37C9C-0893-4AFB-A68B-372A623CF2E5@micbooster.com>
Message-ID: <371DE381-89C7-4636-B39A-AC805AD304D3@mac.com>

Kevin was unquestionably one of the nicest people you could wish to meet and very modest about his undoubted abilities. 

I believe that he was no mean performer on the drum kit, although, perhaps because I was a late-comer to the party that was Television Centre, I never actually witnessed his prowess on the skins. Nevertheless, I always associated Kevin with the apocryphal exchange between a band leader and his drummer, ?When I nod my head, you hit it!? I?ve no idea who relayed this delightful gem to me, but it stuck in the little grey cells and since we all left the great Shepherds Bush television factory I?ve often thought about Kevin for that reason. 

Indeed, little oddities and anecdotes frequently conjure up a great many names and faces that I worked with, both in London, and in Bristol where I started my affair with Aunty. 

What a privileged working life we had to be in the company of people like Kevin. 

Mike G

> On 2 Apr 2024, at 23:47, Nick Roast <nick.roast at micbooster.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Dear All,
> 
> I learnt this evening that Kevin White passed away on Good Friday 29th March at the ripe old age of 90. Kevin?s eldest son Rob tells me the funeral is this Thursday 4th April 2024 at St Peters Church, Marlow at 13:30.
> 
> I was on Kev?s crew in the 80?s and learnt so much from him working on the numerous comedy, LE and music shows of the time.
> 
> Apologies for the mass email, I just grabbed as many addresses as I could!
> 
> Rob is on the lookout for any BBC related memories of Kevin, if you have any anecdotes I can pass them on.
> 
> All the best,
> Nick.
> 


From philiptyler at me.com  Thu Apr  4 02:34:40 2024
From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler)
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2024 08:34:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Kevin White
Message-ID: <4FC1D9B3-1B4B-4B83-9466-2CD8225EECA0@me.com>

I started my career with Kevin who played a big part in my time at the BBC

We were both Jazz fans and loved the Big Bands.

I remember we were working on a Buddy Rich show. There was a pre-rig day with the recording the following day. This was due to the band appearing at Ronnie Scott?s.

We both got on very well with Buddy?s chief roady. So much so he offered us complimentary tickets for the show that night at Ronnie Scott?s.

Needless to say we went along, rolling out of Ronnie Scott?s in the early hours of the morning. With just enough time for us to get to our respective homes. Wash, change and get back to TVC just in time for work.

What a great night we had!

Kevin thank you for guiding me through my career at the BBC and for being a very good friend!

Philip and Bee

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  5 07:53:06 2024
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 13:53:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crew Idents
Message-ID: <e97f6b6b-83f6-4be4-9c05-a45504318d6b@gmail.com>

Hi all,

Found on Facebook - crew identifiers!!


TOTP:



OGWT:

(OB)

Your comments?!

Best regards

Alec

-- 
=====================================

Alec Bray
alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
MOD:  07789 561 346
TEL:  0118 981 7502
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From martindilly20 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  5 07:56:24 2024
From: martindilly20 at gmail.com (Martin Dilly)
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 13:56:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Blue Peter 1963
In-Reply-To: <67cd42f2-8166-46e6-a011-75d2df205198@gmail.com>
References: <CAA0HHB0d6U=mhCqXXkhpuocazRgD64hxWYW47UGtNbdVR2BRzg@mail.gmail.com>
	<67cd42f2-8166-46e6-a011-75d2df205198@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c3f0c64-f7cf-46d0-93bc-28ba88c50479@gmail.com>

Confirm Cam. 3 is Martin Dilly.

Martin Dilly



On 02/04/2024 10:51, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> "Blue Peter" from 1963 - a picture from Facebook.
>
> I recognise the cameraman on Camera 2, but can not remember his name - 
> sorry!
>
> Studio E Lime Grove ?? It's either D or E.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Alec
>


From robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk  Wed Apr 10 05:15:15 2024
From: robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk (Robert Miles)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2024 11:15:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Sir Paul Fox
Message-ID: <000e01da8b2f$fd5faac0$f81f0040$@soundsuper.co.uk>

 <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68769000> Sir Paul Fox: BBC
executive who launched Dad's Army dies aged 98 - BBC News

 

 

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From sue.malden at btinternet.com  Thu Apr 11 05:03:08 2024
From: sue.malden at btinternet.com (Sue Malden)
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2024 11:03:08 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Sir Paul Fox
In-Reply-To: <000e01da8b2f$fd5faac0$f81f0040$@soundsuper.co.uk>
References: <000e01da8b2f$fd5faac0$f81f0040$@soundsuper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAH/avjScmXZNiZryRNkWfyYBAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAADkw7gVAFL9SLfQG7jCKEzCAQAAAAA=@btinternet.com>

We have a great interview with him in the BEHP collection which he
contributed a lot to in the early days
https://historyproject.org.uk/interview/sir-paul-fox

 

Cheers Sue

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Robert Miles via
Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2024 11:15 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Sir Paul Fox

 

 <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68769000> Sir Paul Fox: BBC
executive who launched Dad's Army dies aged 98 - BBC News

 

 

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From hughsnape at talktalk.net  Fri Apr 12 14:51:06 2024
From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2024 20:51:06 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Tech1] It made me smile . . .
Message-ID: <1307911243.239706.1712951466019@apps.talktalk.co.uk>

Some here may enjoy this,
 
Hugh Snape
 
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From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com  Fri Apr 12 15:28:28 2024
From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2024 21:28:28 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] It made me smile . . .
In-Reply-To: <1307911243.239706.1712951466019@apps.talktalk.co.uk>
References: <1307911243.239706.1712951466019@apps.talktalk.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAP-d_-oaRTE8XWYkt0ZMTcYPGwtp1C3bgujtgSyme00f9Cv7uA@mail.gmail.com>

?

John Nottage

On Fri, 12 Apr 2024, 20:52 Hugh Snape via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Some here may enjoy this,
>
> Hugh Snape
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From ware.nick at aol.com  Sat Apr 13 02:25:31 2024
From: ware.nick at aol.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:25:31 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] It made me smile . . .
In-Reply-To: <CAP-d_-oaRTE8XWYkt0ZMTcYPGwtp1C3bgujtgSyme00f9Cv7uA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP-d_-oaRTE8XWYkt0ZMTcYPGwtp1C3bgujtgSyme00f9Cv7uA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8B33A038-C6AE-4BC5-9FE6-3D7F657AD821@aol.com>

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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 15 10:58:03 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 16:58:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
Message-ID: <ca066777-e4bb-4e70-b826-6d5fce744492@gmail.com>

Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They 
couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. 
And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From mibridge at mac.com  Mon Apr 15 11:57:28 2024
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 17:57:28 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <ca066777-e4bb-4e70-b826-6d5fce744492@gmail.com>
References: <ca066777-e4bb-4e70-b826-6d5fce744492@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CD9F340E-CE6B-4FDC-BE77-0388395D8C46@mac.com>

Well they are called Kwik-Fit and not Kwik-Release, Dave!

Mike G


> On 15 Apr 2024, at 16:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
> -- 
> Dave Plowman
> London, SW
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Apr 15 12:17:22 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 18:17:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <ca066777-e4bb-4e70-b826-6d5fce744492@gmail.com>
References: <ca066777-e4bb-4e70-b826-6d5fce744492@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A1F26993-87E5-4F86-8FCD-CC187B64FC3B@me.com>

I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.

I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered. 

It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.

If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.

It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters. 

Alan

> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
> --
> Dave Plowman
> London, SW
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From barry-wilkinson at sky.com  Mon Apr 15 12:37:32 2024
From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 18:37:32 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <A1F26993-87E5-4F86-8FCD-CC187B64FC3B@me.com>
References: <A1F26993-87E5-4F86-8FCD-CC187B64FC3B@me.com>
Message-ID: <18AC3069-E204-403C-A0C3-44354FA2D954@sky.com>

If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
Sent from my iPad

> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
> 
> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
> 
> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
> 
> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
> 
> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
> 
> Alan
> 
>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>> --
>> Dave Plowman
>> London, SW
>> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 15 12:49:52 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 18:49:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <A1F26993-87E5-4F86-8FCD-CC187B64FC3B@me.com>
References: <ca066777-e4bb-4e70-b826-6d5fce744492@gmail.com>
	<A1F26993-87E5-4F86-8FCD-CC187B64FC3B@me.com>
Message-ID: <d47a079f-bbaa-4e6f-9460-0a2016cb3fbf@gmail.com>

They've not actually damaged anything. Just couldn't undo them - too tight.

All the traditional tyre places I once used round here are gone. 
Replaced with housing. And my local Kwik-Fit have been OK before. But 
like all these places good staff can leave.

I've got it booked into an independent some way off for tomorrow. A 
proper tyre place should be able to cope with truck nuts etc that must 
be tighter than car ones. The book says 96 ft.lb for mine.

On 15/04/2024 18:17, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
> 
> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
> 
> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
> 
> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
> 
> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
> 
> Alan
> 
>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>> --
>> Dave Plowman
>> London, SW
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Mon Apr 15 14:32:11 2024
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 22:32:11 +0300
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <18AC3069-E204-403C-A0C3-44354FA2D954@sky.com>
Message-ID: <dnq0vf2d30vqvuuem1ikfkte.1713209531891@pgtmedia.co.uk>


Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)



Paul Thackray

?

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

+44 7802 243979

Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk

?

Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/



	? Original Message ?	


From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
To: alanaudio at me.com
Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.


If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
Sent from my iPad

> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.? Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>
> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>
> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.? When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.? The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.? After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>
> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>
> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>
> Alan
>
>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>> --
>> Dave Plowman
>> London, SW
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From mibridge at mac.com  Tue Apr 16 02:32:37 2024
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 08:32:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <dnq0vf2d30vqvuuem1ikfkte.1713209531891@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <dnq0vf2d30vqvuuem1ikfkte.1713209531891@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0F5574AA-2CAD-4816-A6DA-9B6214D7B4D0@mac.com>

I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well. 

Mike G

> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?
> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Thackray
> 
>  
> 
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
> 
> +44 7802 243979
> 
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
> 
>  
> 
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
> 
> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
> 
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
> 
> 
> 
>      Original Message      
> 
> 
> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
> To: alanaudio at me.com
> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
> 
> 
> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>> 
>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>> 
>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>> 
>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>> 
>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>>> --
>>> Dave Plowman
>>> London, SW
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From ware.nick at aol.com  Tue Apr 16 03:11:15 2024
From: ware.nick at aol.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 09:11:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <0F5574AA-2CAD-4816-A6DA-9B6214D7B4D0@mac.com>
References: <0F5574AA-2CAD-4816-A6DA-9B6214D7B4D0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1B63965F-5936-4D62-9332-A4F0C3CDA186@aol.com>

Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
> 
> Mike G
> 
>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> ?
>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Paul Thackray
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>> 
>> +44 7802 243979
>> 
>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>> 
>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>> 
>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>     Original Message      
>> 
>> 
>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>> 
>> 
>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>>> 
>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>>> 
>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>>> 
>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>> 
>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>>> 
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>> --
>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>> London, SW
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Apr 16 03:52:41 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 09:52:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <1B63965F-5936-4D62-9332-A4F0C3CDA186@aol.com>
References: <1B63965F-5936-4D62-9332-A4F0C3CDA186@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0AD14C36-FAC1-456C-87EB-1EA52BE276F0@me.com>

Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts undone.  Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.

For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer.  After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the nut.  The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the socket onto the nut.  My long wheel nut wrench was single ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.

Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust impact wrenches.  He uses one for speed during initial tightening, but with a rather low torque setting.  He then uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct torque and then does the final tightening of each nut manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he has changed a wheel.

Alan

> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?
>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Paul Thackray
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>> 
>>> +44 7802 243979
>>> 
>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>> 
>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>> 
>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>    Original Message      
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>>>> 
>>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>>>> 
>>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>>>> 
>>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>>> 
>>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>>>> 
>>>> Alan
>>>> 
>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>> London, SW
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From patrick.heigham at gmail.com  Tue Apr 16 04:10:12 2024
From: patrick.heigham at gmail.com (PATRICK HEIGHAM)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:10:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <1B63965F-5936-4D62-9332-A4F0C3CDA186@aol.com>
References: <0F5574AA-2CAD-4816-A6DA-9B6214D7B4D0@mac.com>
	<1B63965F-5936-4D62-9332-A4F0C3CDA186@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4be3373b-f4d9-4bed-a86c-34da5d3d56f3@gmail.com>

I don't have a problem with wheelnuts, even though one is a locking one,
(prevents the alloys being nicked)

My problem is with the valve caps - there's always one that doesn't
undo easily, requiring the attention of a mini mole wrench!

Pat


On 16/04/2024 09:11, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>
>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>  wrote:
>>
>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
>>
>> Mike G
-------------- next part --------------
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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Tue Apr 16 04:16:20 2024
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:16:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <0AD14C36-FAC1-456C-87EB-1EA52BE276F0@me.com>
References: <0AD14C36-FAC1-456C-87EB-1EA52BE276F0@me.com>
Message-ID: <C30409C3-349C-4688-BC5F-251CF452E13B@zero51.force9.co.uk>

Thats exactly what I do to refit a wheel, minimal power on pneumatic or electric wrench to speed the nuts on, and then a torque wrench for the last tightening. Copper grease on the threads too.  I also carry a breaker bar of at least two foot long with a quality dedicated deep socket in the boot. Slacken (crack) the bolts or nuts before jacking the car up too.  At a pinch, if you only have a short car toolkit type wrench, you can put a brick or lump of wood under the bend, and stamp on it. You'll need to roll the car back and forth to get the heights right (and spend some time looking for a suitable pivot.
Out on the road you can guess the torque, the short oem tool is self limiting for doing up! and sort it out later.

Peter Fox

On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:54, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts undone.  Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.

For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer.  After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the nut.  The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the socket onto the nut.  My long wheel nut wrench was single ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.

Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust impact wrenches.  He uses one for speed during initial tightening, but with a rather low torque setting.  He then uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct torque and then does the final tightening of each nut manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he has changed a wheel.

Alan

> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?
>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Paul Thackray
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> PGT Media



From dave at davesound.co.uk  Tue Apr 16 05:24:42 2024
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 11:24:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <0AD14C36-FAC1-456C-87EB-1EA52BE276F0@me.com>
References: <1B63965F-5936-4D62-9332-A4F0C3CDA186@aol.com>
	<0AD14C36-FAC1-456C-87EB-1EA52BE276F0@me.com>
Message-ID: <ffb3f36b-c92d-412e-affe-6b2e32dc339b@davesound.co.uk>

Just an update. Back from TyreLand in Tooting with two new front tyres. 
Decided to replace them both, and keep the good one as a spare, given 
the vast cost. And how often 35 profile tyres seem to get damaged.

They undid the bolts using a breaker bar, and their heaviest chap 
standing on it. Replaced with some Coppaslip on the threads - which did 
look a bit rusty to me.

I'd blamed the bolts being tight on the firm who'd fitted a new set of 
tyres a couple of years ago - then remembered I'd had new discs and pads 
for the MOT last year.

Not going to be a problem for me anyway, as the car has no spare wheel 
or jack.

On 16/04/2024 09:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts undone.  Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.
>
> For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer.  After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the nut.  The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the socket onto the nut.  My long wheel nut wrench was single ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.
>
> Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust impact wrenches.  He uses one for speed during initial tightening, but with a rather low torque setting.  He then uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct torque and then does the final tightening of each nut manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he has changed a wheel.
>
> Alan
>
>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
>>>
>>> Mike G
>>>
>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> ?
>>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>>
>>>> +44 7802 243979
>>>>
>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>
>>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>>
>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     Original Message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>>>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>>>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>>>>>
>>>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>>>>>
>>>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>>>>
>>>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-- 
Dave P                                                             London
                                                                      SW



From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Apr 16 05:49:15 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 11:49:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <ffb3f36b-c92d-412e-affe-6b2e32dc339b@davesound.co.uk>
References: <ffb3f36b-c92d-412e-affe-6b2e32dc339b@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FE804519-AC86-4458-B80A-9BA3225E00F2@me.com>

I?m glad that Dave?s problem has been resolved. He then touched upon a topic which really saddens me, the lack of a spare tyre in modern cars.

My wife and I have each bought new cars in the last six months and of course neither of them comes with a spare, but we did make sure that we bought models where there was provision to carry a space saver tyre. The manufacturers want to charge about ?500 for a spare, I bought them with jacks and cross braces for about ?120 each.

When we looked at cars, one possible contender had the battery for the hybrid installed where the spare wheel ought to be.  It wasn?t a particularly big battery, but I was dismayed that they chose to put it there and killed off the option of ever carrying a spare.  The ?gunge kits? they provide instead of a spare won?t work if a tyre is split, typically in the way that a pot hole wrecks them.  It can work for a small puncture such as caused by a nail in the tread, but then the tyre can only be used to get you home and then needs to be replaced. A typical puncture like that can be plugged in a tyre workshop for ?15 and then have a normal lifespan.

Living in a rural area, pot holes have become a real problem and it?s too easy to wreck a tyre. On the narrow lane to our village, it used to be that people drove along it at reasonable speed, briefly steering to the side when meeting an oncoming ing car.  These days locals come to a complete stop and let the other car drive at speed into the pot holes and crumbly edges of the road. We don?t drive on the left, we drive on what?s left.

Alan


> On 16 Apr 2024, at 11:25, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Just an update. Back from TyreLand in Tooting with two new front tyres. Decided to replace them both, and keep the good one as a spare, given the vast cost. And how often 35 profile tyres seem to get damaged.
> 
> They undid the bolts using a breaker bar, and their heaviest chap standing on it. Replaced with some Coppaslip on the threads - which did look a bit rusty to me.
> 
> I'd blamed the bolts being tight on the firm who'd fitted a new set of tyres a couple of years ago - then remembered I'd had new discs and pads for the MOT last year.
> 
> Not going to be a problem for me anyway, as the car has no spare wheel or jack.
> 
>> On 16/04/2024 09:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts undone.  Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.
>> 
>> For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer.  After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the nut.  The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the socket onto the nut.  My long wheel nut wrench was single ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.
>> 
>> Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust impact wrenches.  He uses one for speed during initial tightening, but with a rather low torque setting.  He then uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct torque and then does the final tightening of each nut manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he has changed a wheel.
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
>>>> 
>>>> Mike G
>>>> 
>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> ?
>>>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>>> 
>>>>> +44 7802 243979
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>> 
>>>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>>> 
>>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>    Original Message
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>>>>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>>>>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> --
> Dave P                                                             London
>                                                                     SW
> 
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 16 06:01:49 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 12:01:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <FE804519-AC86-4458-B80A-9BA3225E00F2@me.com>
References: <ffb3f36b-c92d-412e-affe-6b2e32dc339b@davesound.co.uk>
	<FE804519-AC86-4458-B80A-9BA3225E00F2@me.com>
Message-ID: <a530276a-7c9f-4571-9e97-f165d05fe2e4@gmail.com>

I know what you mean, but the car in question was bought for my third 
childhood. It's a Porsche Boxster. And even a space-saver would reduce 
the limited luggage space too much. The tyre I kept wouldn't even fit 
the 'boot'. Had to be carried inside.

On 16/04/2024 11:49, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> I?m glad that Dave?s problem has been resolved. He then touched upon a topic which really saddens me, the lack of a spare tyre in modern cars.
> he
> My wife and I have each bought new cars in the last six months and of course neither of them comes with a spare, but we did make sure that we bought models where there was provision to carry a space saver tyre. The manufacturers want to charge about ?500 for a spare, I bought them with jacks and cross braces for about ?120 each.
> 
> When we looked at cars, one possible contender had the battery for the hybrid installed where the spare wheel ought to be.  It wasn?t a particularly big battery, but I was dismayed that they chose to put it there and killed off the option of ever carrying a spare.  The ?gunge kits? they provide instead of a spare won?t work if a tyre is split, typically in the way that a pot hole wrecks them.  It can work for a small puncture such as caused by a nail in the tread, but then the tyre can only be used to get you home and then needs to be replaced. A typical puncture like that can be plugged in a tyre workshop for ?15 and then have a normal lifespan.
> 
> Living in a rural area, pot holes have become a real problem and it?s too easy to wreck a tyre. On the narrow lane to our village, it used to be that people drove along it at reasonable speed, briefly steering to the side when meeting an oncoming ing car.  These days locals come to a complete stop and let the other car drive at speed into the pot holes and crumbly edges of the road. We don?t drive on the left, we drive on what?s left.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 11:25, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Just an update. Back from TyreLand in Tooting with two new front tyres. Decided to replace them both, and keep the good one as a spare, given the vast cost. And how often 35 profile tyres seem to get damaged.
>>
>> They undid the bolts using a breaker bar, and their heaviest chap standing on it. Replaced with some Coppaslip on the threads - which did look a bit rusty to me.
>>
>> I'd blamed the bolts being tight on the firm who'd fitted a new set of tyres a couple of years ago - then remembered I'd had new discs and pads for the MOT last year.
>>
>> Not going to be a problem for me anyway, as the car has no spare wheel or jack.
>>
>>> On 16/04/2024 09:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts undone.  Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.
>>>
>>> For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer.  After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the nut.  The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the socket onto the nut.  My long wheel nut wrench was single ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.
>>>
>>> Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust impact wrenches.  He uses one for speed during initial tightening, but with a rather low torque setting.  He then uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct torque and then does the final tightening of each nut manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he has changed a wheel.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
>>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike G
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +44 7802 243979
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Original Message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>>>>>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>>>>>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> --
>> Dave P                                                             London
>>                                                                      SW
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Apr 16 07:31:57 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 13:31:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <a530276a-7c9f-4571-9e97-f165d05fe2e4@gmail.com>
References: <a530276a-7c9f-4571-9e97-f165d05fe2e4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD02E95A-78C2-46ED-99E0-3D69525EFD77@me.com>

Around 1999 I was working on corporate and promotional videos for two rival car manufacturers, Jaguar and BMW. I thought it prudent to keep quiet to each of them about working for the other company and besides I wouldn?t have spoken about anything sensitive anyway.

It was about the time that Jaguar were introducing their new S type saloon and BMW owners were clearly part of the market they were aiming for.  BMW didn?t want to lose customers and were telling their dealers to stress to prospective customers that the boot was so big that you could easily get two bags of golf clubs inside, while Jaguar were telling dealers to point out to customers that their car not only had a spare tyre, but it was a full size tyre and there was still loads of room in the boot.

When BMW discovered what Jaguar were saying, the advice to dealers became to say how spare tyres are something for your chauffeur or roadside assistance to worry about. Jaguar in turn emphasised that as a Jaguar owner, they recognise that your time is valuable and in the event of a puncture, they wanted you to be on your way as soon as possible.

I?m not sure what customers thought about these conflicting arguments.  I?ve generally been rather unimpressed by car salesmen.  When my wife recently bought her car, she was about to sign on the dotted line for her chosen car when the sales manager for that branch elbowed his way in to clinch the deal. The young salesman who had been dealing with it up to then was effectively sidelined at the last minute.  She was so miffed at the sales manager?s arrogance, attitude and misogyny that she told him where to stick his car and immediately drove to Milton Keynes, ordering an identical car that afternoon, getting a November delivery date instead of the March/April date offered by the first dealer.

Alan



> On 16 Apr 2024, at 12:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I know what you mean, but the car in question was bought for my third childhood. It's a Porsche Boxster. And even a space-saver would reduce the limited luggage space too much. The tyre I kept wouldn't even fit the 'boot'. Had to be carried inside.
> 
>> On 16/04/2024 11:49, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> I?m glad that Dave?s problem has been resolved. He then touched upon a topic which really saddens me, the lack of a spare tyre in modern cars.
>> he
>> My wife and I have each bought new cars in the last six months and of course neither of them comes with a spare, but we did make sure that we bought models where there was provision to carry a space saver tyre. The manufacturers want to charge about ?500 for a spare, I bought them with jacks and cross braces for about ?120 each.
>> When we looked at cars, one possible contender had the battery for the hybrid installed where the spare wheel ought to be.  It wasn?t a particularly big battery, but I was dismayed that they chose to put it there and killed off the option of ever carrying a spare.  The ?gunge kits? they provide instead of a spare won?t work if a tyre is split, typically in the way that a pot hole wrecks them.  It can work for a small puncture such as caused by a nail in the tread, but then the tyre can only be used to get you home and then needs to be replaced. A typical puncture like that can be plugged in a tyre workshop for ?15 and then have a normal lifespan.
>> Living in a rural area, pot holes have become a real problem and it?s too easy to wreck a tyre. On the narrow lane to our village, it used to be that people drove along it at reasonable speed, briefly steering to the side when meeting an oncoming ing car.  These days locals come to a complete stop and let the other car drive at speed into the pot holes and crumbly edges of the road. We don?t drive on the left, we drive on what?s left.
>> Alan
>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 11:25, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Just an update. Back from TyreLand in Tooting with two new front tyres. Decided to replace them both, and keep the good one as a spare, given the vast cost. And how often 35 profile tyres seem to get damaged.
>>> 
>>> They undid the bolts using a breaker bar, and their heaviest chap standing on it. Replaced with some Coppaslip on the threads - which did look a bit rusty to me.
>>> 
>>> I'd blamed the bolts being tight on the firm who'd fitted a new set of tyres a couple of years ago - then remembered I'd had new discs and pads for the MOT last year.
>>> 
>>> Not going to be a problem for me anyway, as the car has no spare wheel or jack.
>>> 
>>>> On 16/04/2024 09:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts undone.  Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.
>>>> 
>>>> For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer.  After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the nut.  The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the socket onto the nut.  My long wheel nut wrench was single ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.
>>>> 
>>>> Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust impact wrenches.  He uses one for speed during initial tightening, but with a rather low torque setting.  He then uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct torque and then does the final tightening of each nut manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he has changed a wheel.
>>>> 
>>>> Alan
>>>> 
>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
>>>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike G
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> +44 7802 243979
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>    Original Message
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>>>>>>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>>>>>>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>>>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Dave P                                                             London
>>>                                                                     SW
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> --
> Dave Plowman
> London, SW
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From mibridge at mac.com  Tue Apr 16 07:56:53 2024
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 13:56:53 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <AD02E95A-78C2-46ED-99E0-3D69525EFD77@me.com>
References: <AD02E95A-78C2-46ED-99E0-3D69525EFD77@me.com>
Message-ID: <DB3E8C92-B43E-44EC-8CE9-0AF65807D8DD@mac.com>

On the rubber vs metal topic - the lead filled rubber mallet was perfect for the task and was less likely to damage the wheel rim than a metal hammer, especially working in a confined space where the aim might not be too good.

Mike G

> On 16 Apr 2024, at 13:33, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Around 1999 I was working on corporate and promotional videos for two rival car manufacturers, Jaguar and BMW. I thought it prudent to keep quiet to each of them about working for the other company and besides I wouldn?t have spoken about anything sensitive anyway.
> 
> It was about the time that Jaguar were introducing their new S type saloon and BMW owners were clearly part of the market they were aiming for.  BMW didn?t want to lose customers and were telling their dealers to stress to prospective customers that the boot was so big that you could easily get two bags of golf clubs inside, while Jaguar were telling dealers to point out to customers that their car not only had a spare tyre, but it was a full size tyre and there was still loads of room in the boot.
> 
> When BMW discovered what Jaguar were saying, the advice to dealers became to say how spare tyres are something for your chauffeur or roadside assistance to worry about. Jaguar in turn emphasised that as a Jaguar owner, they recognise that your time is valuable and in the event of a puncture, they wanted you to be on your way as soon as possible.
> 
> I?m not sure what customers thought about these conflicting arguments.  I?ve generally been rather unimpressed by car salesmen.  When my wife recently bought her car, she was about to sign on the dotted line for her chosen car when the sales manager for that branch elbowed his way in to clinch the deal. The young salesman who had been dealing with it up to then was effectively sidelined at the last minute.  She was so miffed at the sales manager?s arrogance, attitude and misogyny that she told him where to stick his car and immediately drove to Milton Keynes, ordering an identical car that afternoon, getting a November delivery date instead of the March/April date offered by the first dealer.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 12:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I know what you mean, but the car in question was bought for my third childhood. It's a Porsche Boxster. And even a space-saver would reduce the limited luggage space too much. The tyre I kept wouldn't even fit the 'boot'. Had to be carried inside.
>> 
>>>> On 16/04/2024 11:49, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>> I?m glad that Dave?s problem has been resolved. He then touched upon a topic which really saddens me, the lack of a spare tyre in modern cars.
>>> he
>>> My wife and I have each bought new cars in the last six months and of course neither of them comes with a spare, but we did make sure that we bought models where there was provision to carry a space saver tyre. The manufacturers want to charge about ?500 for a spare, I bought them with jacks and cross braces for about ?120 each.
>>> When we looked at cars, one possible contender had the battery for the hybrid installed where the spare wheel ought to be.  It wasn?t a particularly big battery, but I was dismayed that they chose to put it there and killed off the option of ever carrying a spare.  The ?gunge kits? they provide instead of a spare won?t work if a tyre is split, typically in the way that a pot hole wrecks them.  It can work for a small puncture such as caused by a nail in the tread, but then the tyre can only be used to get you home and then needs to be replaced. A typical puncture like that can be plugged in a tyre workshop for ?15 and then have a normal lifespan.
>>> Living in a rural area, pot holes have become a real problem and it?s too easy to wreck a tyre. On the narrow lane to our village, it used to be that people drove along it at reasonable speed, briefly steering to the side when meeting an oncoming ing car.  These days locals come to a complete stop and let the other car drive at speed into the pot holes and crumbly edges of the road. We don?t drive on the left, we drive on what?s left.
>>> Alan
>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 11:25, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?Just an update. Back from TyreLand in Tooting with two new front tyres. Decided to replace them both, and keep the good one as a spare, given the vast cost. And how often 35 profile tyres seem to get damaged.
>>>> 
>>>> They undid the bolts using a breaker bar, and their heaviest chap standing on it. Replaced with some Coppaslip on the threads - which did look a bit rusty to me.
>>>> 
>>>> I'd blamed the bolts being tight on the firm who'd fitted a new set of tyres a couple of years ago - then remembered I'd had new discs and pads for the MOT last year.
>>>> 
>>>> Not going to be a problem for me anyway, as the car has no spare wheel or jack.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 16/04/2024 09:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts undone.  Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer.  After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the nut.  The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the socket onto the nut.  My long wheel nut wrench was single ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust impact wrenches.  He uses one for speed during initial tightening, but with a rather low torque setting.  He then uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct torque and then does the final tightening of each nut manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he has changed a wheel.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alan
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
>>>>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mike G
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> +44 7802 243979
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>   Original Message
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>>>>>>>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>>>>>>>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>>>>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Dave P                                                             London
>>>>                                                                    SW
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> --
>> Dave Plowman
>> London, SW
>> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From dave at davesound.co.uk  Tue Apr 16 08:13:55 2024
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 14:13:55 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <DB3E8C92-B43E-44EC-8CE9-0AF65807D8DD@mac.com>
References: <AD02E95A-78C2-46ED-99E0-3D69525EFD77@me.com>
	<DB3E8C92-B43E-44EC-8CE9-0AF65807D8DD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <d36006c4-625d-4b0a-92ab-ce9289b99eb9@davesound.co.uk>

Quite. And the shot filled rubber type is known as 'dead blow' which 
produces an extra thump when it hits. Without damage to those expensive 
alloys.

On when it? 16/04/2024 13:56, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
> On the rubber vs metal topic - the lead filled rubber mallet was perfect for the task and was less likely to damage the wheel rim than a metal hammer, especially working in a confined space where the aim might not be too good.
>
> Mike G
>
>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 13:33, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Around 1999 I was working on corporate and promotional videos for two rival car manufacturers, Jaguar and BMW. I thought it prudent to keep quiet to each of them about working for the other company and besides I wouldn?t have spoken about anything sensitive anyway.
>>
>> It was about the time that Jaguar were introducing their new S type saloon and BMW owners were clearly part of the market they were aiming for.  BMW didn?t want to lose customers and were telling their dealers to stress to prospective customers that the boot was so big that you could easily get two bags of golf clubs inside, while Jaguar were telling dealers to point out to customers that their car not only had a spare tyre, but it was a full size tyre and there was still loads of room in the boot.
>>
>> When BMW discovered what Jaguar were saying, the advice to dealers became to say how spare tyres are something for your chauffeur or roadside assistance to worry about. Jaguar in turn emphasised that as a Jaguar owner, they recognise that your time is valuable and in the event of a puncture, they wanted you to be on your way as soon as possible.
>>
>> I?m not sure what customers thought about these conflicting arguments.  I?ve generally been rather unimpressed by car salesmen.  When my wife recently bought her car, she was about to sign on the dotted line for her chosen car when the sales manager for that branch elbowed his way in to clinch the deal. The young salesman who had been dealing with it up to then was effectively sidelined at the last minute.  She was so miffed at the sales manager?s arrogance, attitude and misogyny that she told him where to stick his car and immediately drove to Milton Keynes, ordering an identical car that afternoon, getting a November delivery date instead of the March/April date offered by the first dealer.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 12:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I know what you mean, but the car in question was bought for my third childhood. It's a Porsche Boxster. And even a space-saver would reduce the limited luggage space too much. The tyre I kept wouldn't even fit the 'boot'. Had to be carried inside.
>>>
>>>>> On 16/04/2024 11:49, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> I?m glad that Dave?s problem has been resolved. He then touched upon a topic which really saddens me, the lack of a spare tyre in modern cars.
>>>> he
>>>> My wife and I have each bought new cars in the last six months and of course neither of them comes with a spare, but we did make sure that we bought models where there was provision to carry a space saver tyre. The manufacturers want to charge about ?500 for a spare, I bought them with jacks and cross braces for about ?120 each.
>>>> When we looked at cars, one possible contender had the battery for the hybrid installed where the spare wheel ought to be.  It wasn?t a particularly big battery, but I was dismayed that they chose to put it there and killed off the option of ever carrying a spare.  The ?gunge kits? they provide instead of a spare won?t work if a tyre is split, typically in the way that a pot hole wrecks them.  It can work for a small puncture such as caused by a nail in the tread, but then the tyre can only be used to get you home and then needs to be replaced. A typical puncture like that can be plugged in a tyre workshop for ?15 and then have a normal lifespan.
>>>> Living in a rural area, pot holes have become a real problem and it?s too easy to wreck a tyre. On the narrow lane to our village, it used to be that people drove along it at reasonable speed, briefly steering to the side when meeting an oncoming ing car.  These days locals come to a complete stop and let the other car drive at speed into the pot holes and crumbly edges of the road. We don?t drive on the left, we drive on what?s left.
>>>> Alan
>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 11:25, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> ?Just an update. Back from TyreLand in Tooting with two new front tyres. Decided to replace them both, and keep the good one as a spare, given the vast cost. And how often 35 profile tyres seem to get damaged.
>>>>>
>>>>> They undid the bolts using a breaker bar, and their heaviest chap standing on it. Replaced with some Coppaslip on the threads - which did look a bit rusty to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd blamed the bolts being tight on the firm who'd fitted a new set of tyres a couple of years ago - then remembered I'd had new discs and pads for the MOT last year.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not going to be a problem for me anyway, as the car has no spare wheel or jack.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 09:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>> Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts undone.  Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer.  After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the nut.  The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the socket onto the nut.  My long wheel nut wrench was single ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust impact wrenches.  He uses one for speed during initial tightening, but with a rather low torque setting.  He then uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct torque and then does the final tightening of each nut manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he has changed a wheel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
>>>>>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike G
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> +44 7802 243979
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Original Message
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>>>>>>>>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>>>>>>>>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>>>>>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dave P                                                             London
>>>>>                                                                     SW
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> --
>>> Dave Plowman
>>> London, SW
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-- 
Dave P                                                             London
                                                                      SW



From patrick.heigham at gmail.com  Tue Apr 16 09:25:05 2024
From: patrick.heigham at gmail.com (PATRICK HEIGHAM)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 15:25:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <a530276a-7c9f-4571-9e97-f165d05fe2e4@gmail.com>
References: <ffb3f36b-c92d-412e-affe-6b2e32dc339b@davesound.co.uk>
	<FE804519-AC86-4458-B80A-9BA3225E00F2@me.com>
	<a530276a-7c9f-4571-9e97-f165d05fe2e4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1d05dd17-b693-4944-897d-81b20304b701@gmail.com>

As we seem to be on cars again?.

Here?s my history:

I?ve been driving BMW for several years. This on the advice of my Dad ? 
a trained engineer from Thorneycroft, against my attraction to a Fiat 
Sports 157(?).

So, on retirement, I had some money from the tax-free cash pension fund, 
plus the fact that I took advantage of the Government scrappage scheme 
that gave me ?2000 to ditch my 18 year old vehicle. The dealership in 
the Isle of Wight were so pleased that I came back to them, that they 
discounted another ?2,500. That made the 325 Sports Coupe, affordable. 
This was ordered, on-line, with colour, trim, and as many ?bells & 
whistles? as possible ? satnav, CD changer, DAB radio etc. And I 
couldn?t resist a personalised plate.
When conversing with the BMW insurance, I was asked what the engine cc was.
I said it was a 325, so 2.5 litre. No, she informed me, that model is 3 
litre!

Oh, well, I have a powerful motor! No need to beat the boy racers away 
from the lights.
I know I can do it if I want to!

Like our other correspondents, I was puzzled at the lack of spare wheel, 
jack etc, and was informed that the car had ?run flat tyres?.
I did take out a tyre insurance, which I used a couple of times. Much 
puzzlement at National Tyre, when I ordered one ? ?No, they said, it?s 
the wrong wheel size? I explained that it was not an ?07? car, but ?09?. 
(the ?07? is my birthday).

Never did much in continental driving, but did take my earlier 325, with 
a girlfriend to Saltzberg and the Austrian Tyrol. She handled the car 
beautifully. It was her turn to drive when we hit the Munich Friday 
evening rush hour! But on the way to Tyrol, she was complimentary at my 
flinging the car around the alpine roads. (James Bond ? who he?)

Isn?t it irritating that although Britain wonWW2, we are boosting the 
economies of the vanquished countries by buying their products ? BMW, 
Sony, Panasonic etc?

But it's pleasing that most Police forces are equipped with BMW.

Couple of pics attached
1. Pat posing
2. Tight squeeze in garage.



On 16/04/2024 12:01, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> I know what you mean, but the car in question was bought for my third 
> childhood. It's a Porsche Boxster. And even a space-saver would reduce 
> the limited luggage space too much. The tyre I kept wouldn't even fit 
> the 'boot'. Had to be carried inside.
>
> On 16/04/2024 11:49, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> I?m glad that Dave?s problem has been resolved. He then touched upon 
>> a topic which really saddens me, the lack of a spare tyre in modern 
>> cars.
>> he
>> My wife and I have each bought new cars in the last six months and of 
>> course neither of them comes with a spare, but we did make sure that 
>> we bought models where there was provision to carry a space saver 
>> tyre. The manufacturers want to charge about ?500 for a spare, I 
>> bought them with jacks and cross braces for about ?120 each.
>>
>> When we looked at cars, one possible contender had the battery for 
>> the hybrid installed where the spare wheel ought to be.? It wasn?t a 
>> particularly big battery, but I was dismayed that they chose to put 
>> it there and killed off the option of ever carrying a spare.? The 
>> ?gunge kits? they provide instead of a spare won?t work if a tyre is 
>> split, typically in the way that a pot hole wrecks them.? It can work 
>> for a small puncture such as caused by a nail in the tread, but then 
>> the tyre can only be used to get you home and then needs to be 
>> replaced. A typical puncture like that can be plugged in a tyre 
>> workshop for ?15 and then have a normal lifespan.
>>
>> Living in a rural area, pot holes have become a real problem and it?s 
>> too easy to wreck a tyre. On the narrow lane to our village, it used 
>> to be that people drove along it at reasonable speed, briefly 
>> steering to the side when meeting an oncoming ing car.? These days 
>> locals come to a complete stop and let the other car drive at speed 
>> into the pot holes and crumbly edges of the road. We don?t drive on 
>> the left, we drive on what?s left.
>>
>> Alan
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From ware.nick at aol.com  Tue Apr 16 09:36:33 2024
From: ware.nick at aol.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 15:36:33 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <d36006c4-625d-4b0a-92ab-ce9289b99eb9@davesound.co.uk>
References: <d36006c4-625d-4b0a-92ab-ce9289b99eb9@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9561D9C1-2E83-41C2-ABA8-14E9CFD381FF@aol.com>

I was presuming that he would have been tapping around near to the hub, not the rim. A few sharp but gentle transient taps would in my view be the best way to separate whatever the obstruction was. Clearly you don?t want to be damaging the alloy rim. That?s a job best left to the puddles that turn out to be deep potholes around here in Cranleigh. (I still do quite a lot of metalwork of one sort or another, by the way).
?Make, mend, or up-cycle? is my raison d?etre.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

> On 16 Apr 2024, at 15:08, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Quite. And the shot filled rubber type is known as 'dead blow' which produces an extra thump when it hits. Without damage to those expensive alloys.
> 
>> On when it  16/04/2024 13:56, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
>> On the rubber vs metal topic - the lead filled rubber mallet was perfect for the task and was less likely to damage the wheel rim than a metal hammer, especially working in a confined space where the aim might not be too good.
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 13:33, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Around 1999 I was working on corporate and promotional videos for two rival car manufacturers, Jaguar and BMW. I thought it prudent to keep quiet to each of them about working for the other company and besides I wouldn?t have spoken about anything sensitive anyway.
>>> 
>>> It was about the time that Jaguar were introducing their new S type saloon and BMW owners were clearly part of the market they were aiming for.  BMW didn?t want to lose customers and were telling their dealers to stress to prospective customers that the boot was so big that you could easily get two bags of golf clubs inside, while Jaguar were telling dealers to point out to customers that their car not only had a spare tyre, but it was a full size tyre and there was still loads of room in the boot.
>>> 
>>> When BMW discovered what Jaguar were saying, the advice to dealers became to say how spare tyres are something for your chauffeur or roadside assistance to worry about. Jaguar in turn emphasised that as a Jaguar owner, they recognise that your time is valuable and in the event of a puncture, they wanted you to be on your way as soon as possible.
>>> 
>>> I?m not sure what customers thought about these conflicting arguments.  I?ve generally been rather unimpressed by car salesmen.  When my wife recently bought her car, she was about to sign on the dotted line for her chosen car when the sales manager for that branch elbowed his way in to clinch the deal. The young salesman who had been dealing with it up to then was effectively sidelined at the last minute.  She was so miffed at the sales manager?s arrogance, attitude and misogyny that she told him where to stick his car and immediately drove to Milton Keynes, ordering an identical car that afternoon, getting a November delivery date instead of the March/April date offered by the first dealer.
>>> 
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 12:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?I know what you mean, but the car in question was bought for my third childhood. It's a Porsche Boxster. And even a space-saver would reduce the limited luggage space too much. The tyre I kept wouldn't even fit the 'boot'. Had to be carried inside.
>>>> 
>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 11:49, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> I?m glad that Dave?s problem has been resolved. He then touched upon a topic which really saddens me, the lack of a spare tyre in modern cars.
>>>>> he
>>>>> My wife and I have each bought new cars in the last six months and of course neither of them comes with a spare, but we did make sure that we bought models where there was provision to carry a space saver tyre. The manufacturers want to charge about ?500 for a spare, I bought them with jacks and cross braces for about ?120 each.
>>>>> When we looked at cars, one possible contender had the battery for the hybrid installed where the spare wheel ought to be.  It wasn?t a particularly big battery, but I was dismayed that they chose to put it there and killed off the option of ever carrying a spare.  The ?gunge kits? they provide instead of a spare won?t work if a tyre is split, typically in the way that a pot hole wrecks them.  It can work for a small puncture such as caused by a nail in the tread, but then the tyre can only be used to get you home and then needs to be replaced. A typical puncture like that can be plugged in a tyre workshop for ?15 and then have a normal lifespan.
>>>>> Living in a rural area, pot holes have become a real problem and it?s too easy to wreck a tyre. On the narrow lane to our village, it used to be that people drove along it at reasonable speed, briefly steering to the side when meeting an oncoming ing car.  These days locals come to a complete stop and let the other car drive at speed into the pot holes and crumbly edges of the road. We don?t drive on the left, we drive on what?s left.
>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 11:25, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> ?Just an update. Back from TyreLand in Tooting with two new front tyres. Decided to replace them both, and keep the good one as a spare, given the vast cost. And how often 35 profile tyres seem to get damaged.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> They undid the bolts using a breaker bar, and their heaviest chap standing on it. Replaced with some Coppaslip on the threads - which did look a bit rusty to me.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'd blamed the bolts being tight on the firm who'd fitted a new set of tyres a couple of years ago - then remembered I'd had new discs and pads for the MOT last year.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Not going to be a problem for me anyway, as the car has no spare wheel or jack.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 09:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>> Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts undone.  Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer.  After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the nut.  The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the socket onto the nut.  My long wheel nut wrench was single ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust impact wrenches.  He uses one for speed during initial tightening, but with a rather low torque setting.  He then uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct torque and then does the final tightening of each nut manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he has changed a wheel.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
>>>>>>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Mike G
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> +44 7802 243979
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>   Original Message
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>>>>>>>>>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>>>>>>>>>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Dave P                                                             London
>>>>>>                                                                    SW
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> --
>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>> London, SW
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> --
> Dave P                                                             London
>                                                                     SW
> 
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Apr 16 11:17:03 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 17:17:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <d36006c4-625d-4b0a-92ab-ce9289b99eb9@davesound.co.uk>
References: <d36006c4-625d-4b0a-92ab-ce9289b99eb9@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0A855357-F8C5-41AD-8DEE-AA9825907D81@me.com>

I bought a job lot of second hand tools. Amongst them was a dead blow hammer with one face consisting of a copper disk at least 1 cm thick and the other face is made of tightly rolled leather hide, looking like a short length of mini Swiss roll.  The part in the middle is hollow and filled with what I assume is lead shot. The whole thing weighs about 1kg.  It?s one of those tools which lays undisturbed for years at a time and then turns out to be the perfect solution for a job. 

I understand that they?re often used to tighten or undo the wire wheel spinners on classic cars without damaging the chrome finish.

Alan


> On 16 Apr 2024, at 15:08, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Quite. And the shot filled rubber type is known as 'dead blow' which produces an extra thump when it hits. Without damage to those expensive alloys.
> 
>> On when it  16/04/2024 13:56, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
>> On the rubber vs metal topic - the lead filled rubber mallet was perfect for the task and was less likely to damage the wheel rim than a metal hammer, especially working in a confined space where the aim might not be too good.
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 13:33, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Around 1999 I was working on corporate and promotional videos for two rival car manufacturers, Jaguar and BMW. I thought it prudent to keep quiet to each of them about working for the other company and besides I wouldn?t have spoken about anything sensitive anyway.
>>> 
>>> It was about the time that Jaguar were introducing their new S type saloon and BMW owners were clearly part of the market they were aiming for.  BMW didn?t want to lose customers and were telling their dealers to stress to prospective customers that the boot was so big that you could easily get two bags of golf clubs inside, while Jaguar were telling dealers to point out to customers that their car not only had a spare tyre, but it was a full size tyre and there was still loads of room in the boot.
>>> 
>>> When BMW discovered what Jaguar were saying, the advice to dealers became to say how spare tyres are something for your chauffeur or roadside assistance to worry about. Jaguar in turn emphasised that as a Jaguar owner, they recognise that your time is valuable and in the event of a puncture, they wanted you to be on your way as soon as possible.
>>> 
>>> I?m not sure what customers thought about these conflicting arguments.  I?ve generally been rather unimpressed by car salesmen.  When my wife recently bought her car, she was about to sign on the dotted line for her chosen car when the sales manager for that branch elbowed his way in to clinch the deal. The young salesman who had been dealing with it up to then was effectively sidelined at the last minute.  She was so miffed at the sales manager?s arrogance, attitude and misogyny that she told him where to stick his car and immediately drove to Milton Keynes, ordering an identical car that afternoon, getting a November delivery date instead of the March/April date offered by the first dealer.
>>> 
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 12:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?I know what you mean, but the car in question was bought for my third childhood. It's a Porsche Boxster. And even a space-saver would reduce the limited luggage space too much. The tyre I kept wouldn't even fit the 'boot'. Had to be carried inside.
>>>> 
>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 11:49, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> I?m glad that Dave?s problem has been resolved. He then touched upon a topic which really saddens me, the lack of a spare tyre in modern cars.
>>>>> he
>>>>> My wife and I have each bought new cars in the last six months and of course neither of them comes with a spare, but we did make sure that we bought models where there was provision to carry a space saver tyre. The manufacturers want to charge about ?500 for a spare, I bought them with jacks and cross braces for about ?120 each.
>>>>> When we looked at cars, one possible contender had the battery for the hybrid installed where the spare wheel ought to be.  It wasn?t a particularly big battery, but I was dismayed that they chose to put it there and killed off the option of ever carrying a spare.  The ?gunge kits? they provide instead of a spare won?t work if a tyre is split, typically in the way that a pot hole wrecks them.  It can work for a small puncture such as caused by a nail in the tread, but then the tyre can only be used to get you home and then needs to be replaced. A typical puncture like that can be plugged in a tyre workshop for ?15 and then have a normal lifespan.
>>>>> Living in a rural area, pot holes have become a real problem and it?s too easy to wreck a tyre. On the narrow lane to our village, it used to be that people drove along it at reasonable speed, briefly steering to the side when meeting an oncoming ing car.  These days locals come to a complete stop and let the other car drive at speed into the pot holes and crumbly edges of the road. We don?t drive on the left, we drive on what?s left.
>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 11:25, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> ?Just an update. Back from TyreLand in Tooting with two new front tyres. Decided to replace them both, and keep the good one as a spare, given the vast cost. And how often 35 profile tyres seem to get damaged.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> They undid the bolts using a breaker bar, and their heaviest chap standing on it. Replaced with some Coppaslip on the threads - which did look a bit rusty to me.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'd blamed the bolts being tight on the firm who'd fitted a new set of tyres a couple of years ago - then remembered I'd had new discs and pads for the MOT last year.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Not going to be a problem for me anyway, as the car has no spare wheel or jack.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 09:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>> Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts undone.  Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer.  After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the nut.  The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the socket onto the nut.  My long wheel nut wrench was single ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust impact wrenches.  He uses one for speed during initial tightening, but with a rather low torque setting.  He then uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct torque and then does the final tightening of each nut manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he has changed a wheel.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
>>>>>>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Mike G
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> +44 7802 243979
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>   Original Message
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>>>>>>>>>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>>>>>>>>>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Dave P                                                             London
>>>>>>                                                                    SW
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> --
>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>> London, SW
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> --
> Dave P                                                             London
>                                                                     SW
> 
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Apr 16 11:19:50 2024
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 17:19:50 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <0A855357-F8C5-41AD-8DEE-AA9825907D81@me.com>
References: <d36006c4-625d-4b0a-92ab-ce9289b99eb9@davesound.co.uk>
	<0A855357-F8C5-41AD-8DEE-AA9825907D81@me.com>
Message-ID: <DD296E88-C078-408B-957E-32A811220EB4@icloud.com>

I have one of those in a box of tools I inherited from my father, didn?t know what it was!

> On 16 Apr 2024, at 17:17, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I bought a job lot of second hand tools. Amongst them was a dead blow hammer with one face consisting of a copper disk at least 1 cm thick and the other face is made of tightly rolled leather hide, looking like a short length of mini Swiss roll.  The part in the middle is hollow and filled with what I assume is lead shot. The whole thing weighs about 1kg.  It?s one of those tools which lays undisturbed for years at a time and then turns out to be the perfect solution for a job. 
> 
> I understand that they?re often used to tighten or undo the wire wheel spinners on classic cars without damaging the chrome finish.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 15:08, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Quite. And the shot filled rubber type is known as 'dead blow' which produces an extra thump when it hits. Without damage to those expensive alloys.
>> 
>>> On when it  16/04/2024 13:56, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
>>> On the rubber vs metal topic - the lead filled rubber mallet was perfect for the task and was less likely to damage the wheel rim than a metal hammer, especially working in a confined space where the aim might not be too good.
>>> 
>>> Mike G
>>> 
>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 13:33, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?Around 1999 I was working on corporate and promotional videos for two rival car manufacturers, Jaguar and BMW. I thought it prudent to keep quiet to each of them about working for the other company and besides I wouldn?t have spoken about anything sensitive anyway.
>>>> 
>>>> It was about the time that Jaguar were introducing their new S type saloon and BMW owners were clearly part of the market they were aiming for.  BMW didn?t want to lose customers and were telling their dealers to stress to prospective customers that the boot was so big that you could easily get two bags of golf clubs inside, while Jaguar were telling dealers to point out to customers that their car not only had a spare tyre, but it was a full size tyre and there was still loads of room in the boot.
>>>> 
>>>> When BMW discovered what Jaguar were saying, the advice to dealers became to say how spare tyres are something for your chauffeur or roadside assistance to worry about. Jaguar in turn emphasised that as a Jaguar owner, they recognise that your time is valuable and in the event of a puncture, they wanted you to be on your way as soon as possible.
>>>> 
>>>> I?m not sure what customers thought about these conflicting arguments.  I?ve generally been rather unimpressed by car salesmen.  When my wife recently bought her car, she was about to sign on the dotted line for her chosen car when the sales manager for that branch elbowed his way in to clinch the deal. The young salesman who had been dealing with it up to then was effectively sidelined at the last minute.  She was so miffed at the sales manager?s arrogance, attitude and misogyny that she told him where to stick his car and immediately drove to Milton Keynes, ordering an identical car that afternoon, getting a November delivery date instead of the March/April date offered by the first dealer.
>>>> 
>>>> Alan
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 12:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?I know what you mean, but the car in question was bought for my third childhood. It's a Porsche Boxster. And even a space-saver would reduce the limited luggage space too much. The tyre I kept wouldn't even fit the 'boot'. Had to be carried inside.
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 11:49, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>> I?m glad that Dave?s problem has been resolved. He then touched upon a topic which really saddens me, the lack of a spare tyre in modern cars.
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> My wife and I have each bought new cars in the last six months and of course neither of them comes with a spare, but we did make sure that we bought models where there was provision to carry a space saver tyre. The manufacturers want to charge about ?500 for a spare, I bought them with jacks and cross braces for about ?120 each.
>>>>>> When we looked at cars, one possible contender had the battery for the hybrid installed where the spare wheel ought to be.  It wasn?t a particularly big battery, but I was dismayed that they chose to put it there and killed off the option of ever carrying a spare.  The ?gunge kits? they provide instead of a spare won?t work if a tyre is split, typically in the way that a pot hole wrecks them.  It can work for a small puncture such as caused by a nail in the tread, but then the tyre can only be used to get you home and then needs to be replaced. A typical puncture like that can be plugged in a tyre workshop for ?15 and then have a normal lifespan.
>>>>>> Living in a rural area, pot holes have become a real problem and it?s too easy to wreck a tyre. On the narrow lane to our village, it used to be that people drove along it at reasonable speed, briefly steering to the side when meeting an oncoming ing car.  These days locals come to a complete stop and let the other car drive at speed into the pot holes and crumbly edges of the road. We don?t drive on the left, we drive on what?s left.
>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 11:25, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> ?Just an update. Back from TyreLand in Tooting with two new front tyres. Decided to replace them both, and keep the good one as a spare, given the vast cost. And how often 35 profile tyres seem to get damaged.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> They undid the bolts using a breaker bar, and their heaviest chap standing on it. Replaced with some Coppaslip on the threads - which did look a bit rusty to me.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'd blamed the bolts being tight on the firm who'd fitted a new set of tyres a couple of years ago - then remembered I'd had new discs and pads for the MOT last year.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Not going to be a problem for me anyway, as the car has no spare wheel or jack.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 09:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>> Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts undone.  Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer.  After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the nut.  The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the socket onto the nut.  My long wheel nut wrench was single ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust impact wrenches.  He uses one for speed during initial tightening, but with a rather low torque setting.  He then uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct torque and then does the final tightening of each nut manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he has changed a wheel.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
>>>>>>>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Mike G
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> +44 7802 243979
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>  Original Message
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>>>>>>>>>>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Dave P                                                             London
>>>>>>>                                                                   SW
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>> London, SW
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> --
>> Dave P                                                             London
>>                                                                    SW
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From ware.nick at aol.com  Tue Apr 16 13:32:11 2024
From: ware.nick at aol.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 19:32:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <0A855357-F8C5-41AD-8DEE-AA9825907D81@me.com>
References: <0A855357-F8C5-41AD-8DEE-AA9825907D81@me.com>
Message-ID: <5394D066-9288-440E-AA5E-1845B4B1D21C@aol.com>

Whether or not a hammer will damage the object it?s hitting is what it?s all about. I have a soft face mallet that is the perfect tool in precision carpentry. In the past I have built two pipe organs and restored another (which I still have), and a soft face is the best way to get joints fitting perfectly and 100% airtight without injury to the job. My seasoned Oak mallet I made myself.
Anyone care to have a guess at what this is? The left hand end is open, the same internal shape as the sharp end. This particular one is around 250 years old (and, no, I haven?t been using it that long!)
When we last moved house, other than the obvious, there were two criteria that had to be met. For the Boss, a good spacious kitchen; and for me, space and a bit of acoustics for the organ (and a wide enough doorway to get it in).
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Cheers,
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

> On 16 Apr 2024, at 17:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I bought a job lot of second hand tools. Amongst them was a dead blow hammer with one face consisting of a copper disk at least 1 cm thick and the other face is made of tightly rolled leather hide, looking like a short length of mini Swiss roll.  The part in the middle is hollow and filled with what I assume is lead shot. The whole thing weighs about 1kg.  It?s one of those tools which lays undisturbed for years at a time and then turns out to be the perfect solution for a job.
> 
> I understand that they?re often used to tighten or undo the wire wheel spinners on classic cars without damaging the chrome finish.

From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Apr 16 15:10:08 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 21:10:08 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <5394D066-9288-440E-AA5E-1845B4B1D21C@aol.com>
References: <5394D066-9288-440E-AA5E-1845B4B1D21C@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C6395016-4A23-4CB1-81A4-E41705AF8AAB@me.com>

My guess is that Nick?s mystery object is some sort of swaging tool for joining metal tubes. One end would taper the tube inwards and the other would flare it outwards, allowing a neat soldered joint to be made when they are pushed together.
> 
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I?ve never seen such a tool, but when I had some plumbing work done on my previous house, the rather elderly plumber took up the floorboards in the bathroom and excitedly declared that he had worked on that house when he was an apprentice.  What convinced him was that all the copper pipes were joined by swaging and soldering.  His employer was very penny wise and resented the idea of buying copper fittings to join pipes.  Purchasing the tool was a one-off expense and there would be continual savings from not buying fittings.  No other plumber in the town had one of the tools or used that technique and the date when the house was built matched his time as an apprentice. The finished joints looked really neat too. 

I suspect that his particular gadget worked on a different principle because he referred to it as a rotating jig.

Alan

From barry-wilkinson at sky.com  Tue Apr 16 15:11:40 2024
From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 21:11:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <1d05dd17-b693-4944-897d-81b20304b701@gmail.com>
References: <1d05dd17-b693-4944-897d-81b20304b701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E29B9224-2DFD-461B-8F78-8605FEF842AC@sky.com>

That reminds me of a friend who had his BMW on holiday in northern Scotland. He hit an obstacle which ruined the tyre and wheel so not running flat driving. He said it took four days to get the appropriate tyre and wheel up there. So just beware!
Having said that my Kia Niro EV has no spare and the tyres are not run flat. Just a complicated looking aerosol can and an electric pump. It?s a good job I don?t go far now, just in case!
Sent from my iPad

> On 16 Apr 2024, at 20:28, PATRICK HEIGHAM via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> As we seem to be on cars again?.
> 
> Here?s my history:
> 
> I?ve been driving BMW for several years. This on the advice of my Dad ? a trained engineer from Thorneycroft, against my attraction to a Fiat Sports 157(?).
> 
> So, on retirement, I had some money from the tax-free cash pension fund, plus the fact that I took advantage of the Government scrappage scheme that gave me ?2000 to ditch my 18 year old vehicle. The dealership in the Isle of Wight were so pleased that I came back to them, that they discounted another ?2,500. That made the 325 Sports Coupe, affordable. This was ordered, on-line, with colour, trim, and as many ?bells & whistles? as possible ? satnav, CD changer, DAB radio etc. And I couldn?t resist a personalised plate.
> When conversing with the BMW insurance, I was asked what the engine cc was.
> I said it was a 325, so 2.5 litre. No, she informed me, that model is 3 litre!
> 
> Oh, well, I have a powerful motor! No need to beat the boy racers away from the lights.
> I know I can do it if I want to!
> 
> Like our other correspondents, I was puzzled at the lack of spare wheel, jack etc, and was informed that the car had ?run flat tyres?.
> I did take out a tyre insurance, which I used a couple of times. Much puzzlement at National Tyre, when I ordered one ? ?No, they said, it?s the wrong wheel size? I explained that it was not an ?07? car, but ?09?. (the ?07? is my birthday).
> 
> Never did much in continental driving, but did take my earlier 325, with a girlfriend to Saltzberg and the Austrian Tyrol. She handled the car beautifully. It was her turn to drive when we hit the Munich Friday evening rush hour! But on the way to Tyrol, she was complimentary at my flinging the car around the alpine roads. (James Bond ? who he?)
> 
> Isn?t it irritating that although Britain won  WW2, we are boosting the economies of the vanquished countries by buying their products ? BMW, Sony, Panasonic etc?
> 
> But it's pleasing that most Police forces are equipped with BMW.
> 
> Couple of pics attached
> 1. Pat posing
> 2. Tight squeeze in garage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 16/04/2024 12:01, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
>> I know what you mean, but the car in question was bought for my third childhood. It's a Porsche Boxster. And even a space-saver would reduce the limited luggage space too much. The tyre I kept wouldn't even fit the 'boot'. Had to be carried inside.
>> 
>>> On 16/04/2024 11:49, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>> I?m glad that Dave?s problem has been resolved. He then touched upon a topic which really saddens me, the lack of a spare tyre in modern cars.
>>> he
>>> My wife and I have each bought new cars in the last six months and of course neither of them comes with a spare, but we did make sure that we bought models where there was provision to carry a space saver tyre. The manufacturers want to charge about ?500 for a spare, I bought them with jacks and cross braces for about ?120 each.
>>> 
>>> When we looked at cars, one possible contender had the battery for the hybrid installed where the spare wheel ought to be.  It wasn?t a particularly big battery, but I was dismayed that they chose to put it there and killed off the option of ever carrying a spare.  The ?gunge kits? they provide instead of a spare won?t work if a tyre is split, typically in the way that a pot hole wrecks them.  It can work for a small puncture such as caused by a nail in the tread, but then the tyre can only be used to get you home and then needs to be replaced. A typical puncture like that can be plugged in a tyre workshop for ?15 and then have a normal lifespan.
>>> 
>>> Living in a rural area, pot holes have become a real problem and it?s too easy to wreck a tyre. On the narrow lane to our village, it used to be that people drove along it at reasonable speed, briefly steering to the side when meeting an oncoming ing car.  These days locals come to a complete stop and let the other car drive at speed into the pot holes and crumbly edges of the road. We don?t drive on the left, we drive on what?s left.
>>> 
>>> Alan
> <cars_1.png>
> <PH07 PHH in garage.jpg>
> <BMW article.pdf>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Apr 16 17:53:59 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 23:53:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <E29B9224-2DFD-461B-8F78-8605FEF842AC@sky.com>
References: <E29B9224-2DFD-461B-8F78-8605FEF842AC@sky.com>
Message-ID: <7DC57BD3-512E-4C27-8934-BF798A8A1A6E@me.com>

If your car has room for a space-saver spare tyre, I would strongly recommend that you get one.  

The tyre repair kit supplied with newer cars only works under certain circumstances. The puncture must be no bigger than 4mm, the puncture must be in the main tread and there must be no damage to the sidewall or wheel rim.  Roadside assistance services would need to source a replacement tyre if gunge can?t be used. At night, bank holidays or weekends, that might involve an extremely lengthy delay, possibly overnight or even more than one night.

Around here, a lot of people are getting tyres wrecked by pot holes, which typically split the sidewall and/or dent the wheel rim. The gunge kit is likely to be useless for those repairs. 

One of Janet?s colleagues discovered a punctured tyre in the hospital car park.  Janet phoned me to ask how to help her use the gunge kit. I advised not to use it and took a jack and wheel brace over . We removed the wheel and took it to the tyre fitter who pulled out a screw, plugged the hole and only charged ?15.  If she had used the gunge, it would have meant replacing the tyre ( ?220 ) plus an additional charge for cleaning up the gunge. 

Another time I stopped to help somebody in the lane through our village who had hit a pot hole, split the tyre and used gunge to try and fix it.  It kept oozing out and he only managed to drive a few hundred metres before having to pull over again. The tyre was a write-off three times over. Once because of the split, secondly by driving on it while flat and again because of the gunge.

The tyre kits do have one advantage.  The electrically operated air compressor can be used to inflate your tyres free of charge, instead of having to pay to use the air compressor at a petrol station, so you have no excuse for not having them at the correct pressure.

Alan


> On 16 Apr 2024, at 23:08, B Wilkinson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? my Kia Niro EV has no spare and the tyres are not run flat. Just a complicated looking aerosol can and an electric pump. It?s a good job I don?t go far now, just in case!
> 


From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Wed Apr 17 02:05:01 2024
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 08:05:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <7DC57BD3-512E-4C27-8934-BF798A8A1A6E@me.com>
References: <7DC57BD3-512E-4C27-8934-BF798A8A1A6E@me.com>
Message-ID: <EE4279C6-88A7-4198-8AA4-255DD33826DF@zero51.force9.co.uk>

I once bought a tool for swaging 15mm copper tube, but you drove it in with a hammer and created a parallel socket that slid over the unaltered end of the previous pipe. I only ever made one joint with it as a test and it was too much hassle. It might have made sense in a run of several full 3 metre lengths where the ends weren't turned in by a pipe slice but fittings are so cheap by the hundreds that it wastes more time than the cost of connector. Nick's apparatus, I hesitate to use the word tool, would make a conical socket.  I recall having a cone shaped tool for making a wiped joint in lead piping, or the lead to copper joint that I was forced to do by a leak where the incoming supply pipe was lead and it changed to copper for indoors. There are compression lead to copper fittings for that now, rated by lbs according to the length/weight of the lead pipe, 7lbs is typical . I bought proper plumbers wiping solder and a moleskin (not actually mole of course) pad and wax flux, from a traditional local builders merchant in Biggin Hill. That was in the 1970s and I wouldn't have much luck now.  I didn't manage a  classic wiped joint, far from it, but it didnt leak. I guess that well over a hundred years ago the majority of water pipework was lead hence the "plumbum" (!)  in plumber but if Nick has got one it's bound to be something to do with making  organ pipes?

Peter Fox

On 16 Apr 2024, at 23:54, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?If your car has room for a space-saver spare tyre, I would strongly recommend that you get one.  

The tyre repair kit supplied with newer cars only works under certain circumstances. The puncture must be no bigger than 4mm, the puncture must be in the main tread and there must be no damage to the sidewall or wheel rim.  Roadside assistance services would need to source a replacement tyre if gunge can?t be used. At night, bank holidays or weekends, that might involve an extremely lengthy delay, possibly overnight or even more than one night.

Around here, a lot of people are getting tyres wrecked by pot holes, which typically split the sidewall and/or dent the wheel rim. The gunge kit is likely to be useless for those repairs. 

One of Janet?s colleagues discovered a punctured tyre in the hospital car park.  Janet phoned me to ask how to help her use the gunge kit. I advised not to use it and took a jack and wheel brace over . We removed the wheel and took it to the tyre fitter who pulled out a screw, plugged the hole and only charged ?15.  If she had used the gunge, it would have meant replacing the tyre ( ?220 ) plus an additional charge for cleaning up the gunge. 

Another time I stopped to help somebody in the lane through our village who had hit a pot hole, split the tyre and used gunge to try and fix it.  It kept oozing out and he only managed to drive a few hundred metres before having to pull over again. The tyre was a write-off three times over. Once because of the split, secondly by driving on it while flat and again because of the gunge.

The tyre kits do have one advantage.  The electrically operated air compressor can be used to inflate your tyres free of charge, instead of having to pay to use the air compressor at a petrol station, so you have no excuse for not having them at the correct pressure.

Alan


> On 16 Apr 2024, at 23:08, B Wilkinson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? my Kia Niro EV has no spare and the tyres are not run flat. Just a complicated looking aerosol can and an electric pump. It?s a good job I don?t go far now, just in case!
> 

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 17 04:09:31 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 10:09:31 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <7DC57BD3-512E-4C27-8934-BF798A8A1A6E@me.com>
References: <E29B9224-2DFD-461B-8F78-8605FEF842AC@sky.com>
	<7DC57BD3-512E-4C27-8934-BF798A8A1A6E@me.com>
Message-ID: <d977d2b9-1705-40db-9b16-e555a0c65e56@gmail.com>

I used the repair gunge supplied just the once. Had only just got the 
car and didn't know the consequences. I was close enough to home to make 
it practical to go home and bring out a jack and wheel-brace with the 
other car and take the wheel to be fixed. But had stopped in a resident 
parking bay where you can't pay to park so would have got a ticket. On 
taking the car to a tyre dealer was told they couldn't repair a tyre 
that had gunge - so ?250 plus for a new one. Discovered later some 
places will clean the gunge off and repair. I haven't replaced the tyre 
gunge. Next puncture, I called out the RAC who did a temporary fix that 
allowed the tyre to be repaired properly later. The latest tyre problem 
I posted about is the first time the tyre was wrecked beyond repair.

On 16/04/2024 23:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> If your car has room for a space-saver spare tyre, I would strongly recommend that you get one.
> 
> The tyre repair kit supplied with newer cars only works under certain circumstances. The puncture must be no bigger than 4mm, the puncture must be in the main tread and there must be no damage to the sidewall or wheel rim.  Roadside assistance services would need to source a replacement tyre if gunge can?t be used. At night, bank holidays or weekends, that might involve an extremely lengthy delay, possibly overnight or even more than one night.
> 
> Around here, a lot of people are getting tyres wrecked by pot holes, which typically split the sidewall and/or dent the wheel rim. The gunge kit is likely to be useless for those repairs.
> 
> One of Janet?s colleagues discovered a punctured tyre in the hospital car park.  Janet phoned me to ask how to help her use the gunge kit. I advised not to use it and took a jack and wheel brace over . We removed the wheel and took it to the tyre fitter who pulled out a screw, plugged the hole and only charged ?15.  If she had used the gunge, it would have meant replacing the tyre ( ?220 ) plus an additional charge for cleaning up the gunge.
> 
> Another time I stopped to help somebody in the lane through our village who had hit a pot hole, split the tyre and used gunge to try and fix it.  It kept oozing out and he only managed to drive a few hundred metres before having to pull over again. The tyre was a write-off three times over. Once because of the split, secondly by driving on it while flat and again because of the gunge.
> 
> The tyre kits do have one advantage.  The electrically operated air compressor can be used to inflate your tyres free of charge, instead of having to pay to use the air compressor at a petrol station, so you have no excuse for not having them at the correct pressure.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 23:08, B Wilkinson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ? my Kia Niro EV has no spare and the tyres are not run flat. Just a complicated looking aerosol can and an electric pump. It?s a good job I don?t go far now, just in case!
>>
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 17 04:16:49 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 10:16:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <EE4279C6-88A7-4198-8AA4-255DD33826DF@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <7DC57BD3-512E-4C27-8934-BF798A8A1A6E@me.com>
	<EE4279C6-88A7-4198-8AA4-255DD33826DF@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <53cb1fa3-0490-496c-9c05-a93bfc881a66@gmail.com>

I have a hydraulic swaging tool which is quite easy to use if you have 
the time. Beauty of a swaged joint is it has one rather than two paths 
to leak. But if working on an existing installation, there likely isn't 
room to use the swaging tool, so more for new work. It also looks better 
if the pipe is on show.

On 17/04/2024 08:05, Peter Fox via Tech1 wrote:
> I once bought a tool for swaging 15mm copper tube, but you drove it in with a hammer and created a parallel socket that slid over the unaltered end of the previous pipe. I only ever made one joint with it as a test and it was too much hassle. It might have made sense in a run of several full 3 metre lengths where the ends weren't turned in by a pipe slice but fittings are so cheap by the hundreds that it wastes more time than the cost of connector. Nick's apparatus, I hesitate to use the word tool, would make a conical socket.  I recall having a cone shaped tool for making a wiped joint in lead piping, or the lead to copper joint that I was forced to do by a leak where the incoming supply pipe was lead and it changed to copper for indoors. There are compression lead to copper fittings for that now, rated by lbs according to the length/weight of the lead pipe, 7lbs is typical . I bought proper plumbers wiping solder and a moleskin (not actually mole of course) pad and wax flux, from a traditional local builders merchant in Biggin Hill. That was in the 1970s and I wouldn't have much luck now.  I didn't manage a  classic wiped joint, far from it, but it didnt leak. I guess that well over a hundred years ago the majority of water pipework was lead hence the "plumbum" (!)  in plumber but if Nick has got one it's bound to be something to do with making  organ pipes?
> 
> Peter Fox
> 
> On 16 Apr 2024, at 23:54, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?If your car has room for a space-saver spare tyre, I would strongly recommend that you get one.
> 
> The tyre repair kit supplied with newer cars only works under certain circumstances. The puncture must be no bigger than 4mm, the puncture must be in the main tread and there must be no damage to the sidewall or wheel rim.  Roadside assistance services would need to source a replacement tyre if gunge can?t be used. At night, bank holidays or weekends, that might involve an extremely lengthy delay, possibly overnight or even more than one night.
> 
> Around here, a lot of people are getting tyres wrecked by pot holes, which typically split the sidewall and/or dent the wheel rim. The gunge kit is likely to be useless for those repairs.
> 
> One of Janet?s colleagues discovered a punctured tyre in the hospital car park.  Janet phoned me to ask how to help her use the gunge kit. I advised not to use it and took a jack and wheel brace over . We removed the wheel and took it to the tyre fitter who pulled out a screw, plugged the hole and only charged ?15.  If she had used the gunge, it would have meant replacing the tyre ( ?220 ) plus an additional charge for cleaning up the gunge.
> 
> Another time I stopped to help somebody in the lane through our village who had hit a pot hole, split the tyre and used gunge to try and fix it.  It kept oozing out and he only managed to drive a few hundred metres before having to pull over again. The tyre was a write-off three times over. Once because of the split, secondly by driving on it while flat and again because of the gunge.
> 
> The tyre kits do have one advantage.  The electrically operated air compressor can be used to inflate your tyres free of charge, instead of having to pay to use the air compressor at a petrol station, so you have no excuse for not having them at the correct pressure.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 23:08, B Wilkinson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ? my Kia Niro EV has no spare and the tyres are not run flat. Just a complicated looking aerosol can and an electric pump. It?s a good job I don?t go far now, just in case!
>>
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW

From ware.nick at aol.com  Wed Apr 17 06:40:20 2024
From: ware.nick at aol.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 12:40:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <C6395016-4A23-4CB1-81A4-E41705AF8AAB@me.com>
References: <C6395016-4A23-4CB1-81A4-E41705AF8AAB@me.com>
Message-ID: <50FAADC8-6FF4-4063-A06D-0543F0B1D475@aol.com>

[Anorak mode to ?on?.]
It?s actually a tuning tool. In times gone by it was used to tap the tops of open (tin/lead) organ pipes, to flare or close the top of the pipe to fine tune it up or down. Two of the ranks in my present instrument are from 1890 when that was the way it was done. Now it?s done with tin tuning sleeves which don?t cause the pipe to eventually collapse or split. In the higher notes, a change in pipe length becomes so minute and critical that you can?t see that it?s changed. The solid brass tool weighs half a kilo, but it?s use is gentle and precise. Once the middle C octave is tuned, the rest is done by ear in major fifth intervals, listening for beat frequencies. I cheat that middle octave by using an iPad tuning app to get the intervals exactly right.
I was given this 10? cone tuner by an organ builder in Boston, USA. When I came back through Customs, it was confiscated as a potentially offensive weapon (which it could easily be!). It took some convincing that it is what it is!
[Anorak mode back to ?off?] 
Cheers,
N.
(PS, don?t get me started on new cars, Grrr).
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

> On 16 Apr 2024, at 23:07, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?My guess is that Nick?s mystery object is some sort of swaging tool for joining metal tubes. One end would taper the tube inwards and the other would flare it outwards, allowing a neat soldered joint to be made when they are pushed together.
>> 
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> 
> 
> I?ve never seen such a tool, but when I had some plumbing work done on my previous house, the rather elderly plumber took up the floorboards in the bathroom and excitedly declared that he had worked on that house when he was an apprentice.  What convinced him was that all the copper pipes were joined by swaging and soldering.  His employer was very penny wise and resented the idea of buying copper fittings to join pipes.  Purchasing the tool was a one-off expense and there would be continual savings from not buying fittings.  No other plumber in the town had one of the tools or used that technique and the date when the house was built matched his time as an apprentice. The finished joints looked really neat too.
> 
> I suspect that his particular gadget worked on a different principle because he referred to it as a rotating jig.
> 
> Alan--
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Apr 18 00:19:06 2024
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 06:19:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
Message-ID: <B6EDC7AD-B6AF-4D61-A1B4-1286CC77813B@mac.com>

?My first experience of plumbing was to make a copper to lead joint at the point where the old pipe entered the kitchen through the floor. We had been in the house for a few weeks and had found the incoming water pressure very low, which was explained when I cut the normal looking lead to find an internal diameter of about 8mm - just big enough to take a pencil. I thought at first it must be limescale, but the lead pipe proved to be very thick walled and extremely brittle. My first attempts at swelling the lead with my newly acquired equipment to accept a piece of 15mm copper resulted in the pipe splitting and after two or three goes I was getting perilously close to having nothing left to work with, so I decided to gouge out the lead instead and just about managed to insert half an inch of copper tube. It has to be said that my subsequent attempts at a wiped joint left much to be desired and needed several revisits to make it watertight, so I swore I would never do my own plumbing again!

But soon after that we employed a couple of highly recommended chaps to install central heating, for the princely sum of ?85 (late 1960s) for their labour, but they made such a hash of the job overall that I ended up having to finish it off and haven?t looked back since, with three CH systems and various other water related projects under my belt. 

Nil desperandum!

Mike G

> On 17 Apr 2024, at 08:05, Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?I once bought a tool for swaging 15mm copper tube, but you drove it in with a hammer and created a parallel socket that slid over the unaltered end of the previous pipe. I only ever made one joint with it as a test and it was too much hassle. It might have made sense in a run of several full 3 metre lengths where the ends weren't turned in by a pipe slice but fittings are so cheap by the hundreds that it wastes more time than the cost of connector. Nick's apparatus, I hesitate to use the word tool, would make a conical socket.  I recall having a cone shaped tool for making a wiped joint in lead piping, or the lead to copper joint that I was forced to do by a leak where the incoming supply pipe was lead and it changed to copper for indoors. There are compression lead to copper fittings for that now, rated by lbs according to the length/weight of the lead pipe, 7lbs is typical . I bought proper plumbers wiping solder and a moleskin (not actually mole of course) pad and wax flux, from a traditional local builders merchant in Biggin Hill. That was in the 1970s and I wouldn't have much luck now.  I didn't manage a  classic wiped joint, far from it, but it didnt leak. I guess that well over a hundred years ago the majority of water pipework was lead hence the "plumbum" (!)  in plumber but if Nick has got one it's bound to be something to do with making  organ pipes?
> 
> Peter Fox
> 
> On 16 Apr 2024, at 23:54, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?If your car has room for a space-saver spare tyre, I would strongly recommend that you get one.  
> 
> The tyre repair kit supplied with newer cars only works under certain circumstances. The puncture must be no bigger than 4mm, the puncture must be in the main tread and there must be no damage to the sidewall or wheel rim.  Roadside assistance services would need to source a replacement tyre if gunge can?t be used. At night, bank holidays or weekends, that might involve an extremely lengthy delay, possibly overnight or even more than one night.
> 
> Around here, a lot of people are getting tyres wrecked by pot holes, which typically split the sidewall and/or dent the wheel rim. The gunge kit is likely to be useless for those repairs.
> 
> One of Janet?s colleagues discovered a punctured tyre in the hospital car park.  Janet phoned me to ask how to help her use the gunge kit. I advised not to use it and took a jack and wheel brace over . We removed the wheel and took it to the tyre fitter who pulled out a screw, plugged the hole and only charged ?15.  If she had used the gunge, it would have meant replacing the tyre ( ?220 ) plus an additional charge for cleaning up the gunge.
> 
> Another time I stopped to help somebody in the lane through our village who had hit a pot hole, split the tyre and used gunge to try and fix it.  It kept oozing out and he only managed to drive a few hundred metres before having to pull over again. The tyre was a write-off three times over. Once because of the split, secondly by driving on it while flat and again because of the gunge.
> 
> The tyre kits do have one advantage.  The electrically operated air compressor can be used to inflate your tyres free of charge, instead of having to pay to use the air compressor at a petrol station, so you have no excuse for not having them at the correct pressure.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 23:08, B Wilkinson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ? my Kia Niro EV has no spare and the tyres are not run flat. Just a complicated looking aerosol can and an electric pump. It?s a good job I don?t go far now, just in case!
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Thu Apr 18 03:15:46 2024
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 09:15:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
Message-ID: <F584509D-FE50-45B0-B117-527CFC68ED18@btinternet.com>

Tyre problems turn up far more often than we?d like with todays trend of vehicle manufacturers increasing the radius of the actual wheel by decreasing the size of the tyre, resulting in a shallower low-profile tyre wall depth - great for road holding but not so great for resistance to pothole or kerb damage!!

Subsequent damage obviously results in increased aftermarket sales of tyres - when I looked into the trend of increased wheel diameter some years ago, it was claimed tyre manufacturers were providing new car manufacturers with very heavily discounted tyres in order to benefit from increased aftermarket sales following damage sustained - 
further benefitting from the extra cost of replacing the low-profile type tyres, which often have a much bigger price tag. 

I recall Kwik-Fit were investigated by Watchdog in the Ann Robinson days. 
(See YouTube)


S
(?Apologies if tyre sizes have been discussed here previously)

  
Alan Taylor wrote:-
When my wife recently bought her car, she was about to sign on the dotted line for her chosen car when the sales manager for that branch elbowed his way in to clinch the deal. The young salesman who had been dealing with it up to then was effectively sidelined at the last minute.  She was so miffed at the sales manager?s arrogance, attitude and misogyny that she told him where to stick his car and immediately drove to Milton Keynes, ordering an identical car that afternoon, getting a November delivery date instead of the March/April date offered by the first dealer.

Alan

> On 16 Apr 2024, at 17:20, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?I have one of those in a box of tools I inherited from my father, didn?t know what it was!
> 
>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 17:17, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> I bought a job lot of second hand tools. Amongst them was a dead blow hammer with one face consisting of a copper disk at least 1 cm thick and the other face is made of tightly rolled leather hide, looking like a short length of mini Swiss roll.  The part in the middle is hollow and filled with what I assume is lead shot. The whole thing weighs about 1kg.  It?s one of those tools which lays undisturbed for years at a time and then turns out to be the perfect solution for a job.
>> 
>> I understand that they?re often used to tighten or undo the wire wheel spinners on classic cars without damaging the chrome finish.
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 15:08, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?Quite. And the shot filled rubber type is known as 'dead blow' which produces an extra thump when it hits. Without damage to those expensive alloys.
>>>> On when it  16/04/2024 13:56, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> On the rubber vs metal topic - the lead filled rubber mallet was perfect for the task and was less likely to damage the wheel rim than a metal hammer, especially working in a confined space where the aim might not be too good.
>>>> Mike G
>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 13:33, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> ?Around 1999 I was working on corporate and promotional videos for two rival car manufacturers, Jaguar and BMW. I thought it prudent to keep quiet to each of them about working for the other company and besides I wouldn?t have spoken about anything sensitive anyway.
>>>>> It was about the time that Jaguar were introducing their new S type saloon and BMW owners were clearly part of the market they were aiming for.  BMW didn?t want to lose customers and were telling their dealers to stress to prospective customers that the boot was so big that you could easily get two bags of golf clubs inside, while Jaguar were telling dealers to point out to customers that their car not only had a spare tyre, but it was a full size tyre and there was still loads of room in the boot.
>>>>> When BMW discovered what Jaguar were saying, the advice to dealers became to say how spare tyres are something for your chauffeur or roadside assistance to worry about. Jaguar in turn emphasised that as a Jaguar owner, they recognise that your time is valuable and in the event of a puncture, they wanted you to be on your way as soon as possible.
>>>>> I?m not sure what customers thought about these conflicting arguments.  I?ve generally been rather unimpressed by car salesmen.  When my wife recently bought her car, she was about to sign on the dotted line for her chosen car when the sales manager for that branch elbowed his way in to clinch the deal. The young salesman who had been dealing with it up to then was effectively sidelined at the last minute.  She was so miffed at the sales manager?s arrogance, attitude and misogyny that she told him where to stick his car and immediately drove to Milton Keynes, ordering an identical car that afternoon, getting a November delivery date instead of the March/April date offered by the first dealer.
>>>>> Alan
>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 12:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> ?I know what you mean, but the car in question was bought for my third childhood. It's a Porsche Boxster. And even a space-saver would reduce the limited luggage space too much. The tyre I kept wouldn't even fit the 'boot'. Had to be carried inside.
>>>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 11:49, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>> I?m glad that Dave?s problem has been resolved. He then touched upon a topic which really saddens me, the lack of a spare tyre in modern cars.
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> My wife and I have each bought new cars in the last six months and of course neither of them comes with a spare, but we did make sure that we bought models where there was provision to carry a space saver tyre. The manufacturers want to charge about ?500 for a spare, I bought them with jacks and cross braces for about ?120 each.
>>>>>>> When we looked at cars, one possible contender had the battery for the hybrid installed where the spare wheel ought to be.  It wasn?t a particularly big battery, but I was dismayed that they chose to put it there and killed off the option of ever carrying a spare.  The ?gunge kits? they provide instead of a spare won?t work if a tyre is split, typically in the way that a pot hole wrecks them.  It can work for a small puncture such as caused by a nail in the tread, but then the tyre can only be used to get you home and then needs to be replaced. A typical puncture like that can be plugged in a tyre workshop for ?15 and then have a normal lifespan.
>>>>>>> Living in a rural area, pot holes have become a real problem and it?s too easy to wreck a tyre. On the narrow lane to our village, it used to be that people drove along it at reasonable speed, briefly steering to the side when meeting an oncoming ing car.  These days locals come to a complete stop and let the other car drive at speed into the pot holes and crumbly edges of the road. We don?t drive on the left, we drive on what?s left.
>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 11:25, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> ?Just an update. Back from TyreLand in Tooting with two new front tyres. Decided to replace them both, and keep the good one as a spare, given the vast cost. And how often 35 profile tyres seem to get damaged.
>>>>>>>> They undid the bolts using a breaker bar, and their heaviest chap standing on it. Replaced with some Coppaslip on the threads - which did look a bit rusty to me.
>>>>>>>> I'd blamed the bolts being tight on the firm who'd fitted a new set of tyres a couple of years ago - then remembered I'd had new discs and pads for the MOT last year.
>>>>>>>> Not going to be a problem for me anyway, as the car has no spare wheel or jack.
>>>>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 09:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts undone.  Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.
>>>>>>>>> For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer.  After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the nut.  The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the socket onto the nut.  My long wheel nut wrench was single ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.
>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust impact wrenches.  He uses one for speed during initial tightening, but with a rather low torque setting.  He then uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct torque and then does the final tightening of each nut manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he has changed a wheel.
>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
>>>>>>>>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
>>>>>>>>>>> Mike G
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>>>>>>>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>>>>>>>>>> +44 7802 243979
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>>>>>>>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Dave P                                                             London
>>>>>>>>                                                                  SW
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> --
>>> Dave P                                                             London
>>>                                                                   SW
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> ?
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Apr 18 03:33:42 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 09:33:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <F584509D-FE50-45B0-B117-527CFC68ED18@btinternet.com>
References: <F584509D-FE50-45B0-B117-527CFC68ED18@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <FD22D775-200E-409D-BFDF-DB7D1372D271@me.com>

Many of us will have bought a printer which comes with ?starter cartridges?, which only contain enough ink to last for a short while.  Buying a set of proper cartridges can cost almost as much as buying the printer itself.

Is there an equivalent sort of cheap ?starter? tyre fitted by car manufacturers?  I?ve always bought reputable brands of tyres when replacements are needed, but I?ve noticed that the mileage on the initial set of tyres is way less than that of subsequent tyres.

Alan


> On 18 Apr 2024, at 09:16, Steve Edwards <s.k.edwards at btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Tyre problems turn up far more often than we?d like with todays trend of vehicle manufacturers increasing the radius of the actual wheel by decreasing the size of the tyre, resulting in a shallower low-profile tyre wall depth - great for road holding but not so great for resistance to pothole or kerb damage!!
> 
> Subsequent damage obviously results in increased aftermarket sales of tyres - when I looked into the trend of increased wheel diameter some years ago, it was claimed tyre manufacturers were providing new car manufacturers with very heavily discounted tyres in order to benefit from increased aftermarket sales following damage sustained - 
> further benefitting from the extra cost of replacing the low-profile type tyres, which often have a much bigger price tag. 
> 
> I recall Kwik-Fit were investigated by Watchdog in the Ann Robinson days. 
> (See YouTube)
> 
> 
> S
> (?Apologies if tyre sizes have been discussed here previously)
> 
>   
> Alan Taylor wrote:-
> When my wife recently bought her car, she was about to sign on the dotted line for her chosen car when the sales manager for that branch elbowed his way in to clinch the deal. The young salesman who had been dealing with it up to then was effectively sidelined at the last minute.  She was so miffed at the sales manager?s arrogance, attitude and misogyny that she told him where to stick his car and immediately drove to Milton Keynes, ordering an identical car that afternoon, getting a November delivery date instead of the March/April date offered by the first dealer.
> 
> Alan
> 
>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 17:20, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?I have one of those in a box of tools I inherited from my father, didn?t know what it was!
>> 
>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 17:17, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I bought a job lot of second hand tools. Amongst them was a dead blow hammer with one face consisting of a copper disk at least 1 cm thick and the other face is made of tightly rolled leather hide, looking like a short length of mini Swiss roll.  The part in the middle is hollow and filled with what I assume is lead shot. The whole thing weighs about 1kg.  It?s one of those tools which lays undisturbed for years at a time and then turns out to be the perfect solution for a job.
>>> 
>>> I understand that they?re often used to tighten or undo the wire wheel spinners on classic cars without damaging the chrome finish.
>>> 
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 15:08, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?Quite. And the shot filled rubber type is known as 'dead blow' which produces an extra thump when it hits. Without damage to those expensive alloys.
>>>> 
>>>>> On when it  16/04/2024 13:56, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> On the rubber vs metal topic - the lead filled rubber mallet was perfect for the task and was less likely to damage the wheel rim than a metal hammer, especially working in a confined space where the aim might not be too good.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mike G
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 13:33, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ?Around 1999 I was working on corporate and promotional videos for two rival car manufacturers, Jaguar and BMW. I thought it prudent to keep quiet to each of them about working for the other company and besides I wouldn?t have spoken about anything sensitive anyway.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It was about the time that Jaguar were introducing their new S type saloon and BMW owners were clearly part of the market they were aiming for.  BMW didn?t want to lose customers and were telling their dealers to stress to prospective customers that the boot was so big that you could easily get two bags of golf clubs inside, while Jaguar were telling dealers to point out to customers that their car not only had a spare tyre, but it was a full size tyre and there was still loads of room in the boot.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> When BMW discovered what Jaguar were saying, the advice to dealers became to say how spare tyres are something for your chauffeur or roadside assistance to worry about. Jaguar in turn emphasised that as a Jaguar owner, they recognise that your time is valuable and in the event of a puncture, they wanted you to be on your way as soon as possible.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I?m not sure what customers thought about these conflicting arguments.  I?ve generally been rather unimpressed by car salesmen.  When my wife recently bought her car, she was about to sign on the dotted line for her chosen car when the sales manager for that branch elbowed his way in to clinch the deal. The young salesman who had been dealing with it up to then was effectively sidelined at the last minute.  She was so miffed at the sales manager?s arrogance, attitude and misogyny that she told him where to stick his car and immediately drove to Milton Keynes, ordering an identical car that afternoon, getting a November delivery date instead of the March/April date offered by the first dealer.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 12:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ?I know what you mean, but the car in question was bought for my third childhood. It's a Porsche Boxster. And even a space-saver would reduce the limited luggage space too much. The tyre I kept wouldn't even fit the 'boot'. Had to be carried inside.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 11:49, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>> I?m glad that Dave?s problem has been resolved. He then touched upon a topic which really saddens me, the lack of a spare tyre in modern cars.
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> My wife and I have each bought new cars in the last six months and of course neither of them comes with a spare, but we did make sure that we bought models where there was provision to carry a space saver tyre. The manufacturers want to charge about ?500 for a spare, I bought them with jacks and cross braces for about ?120 each.
>>>>>>>> When we looked at cars, one possible contender had the battery for the hybrid installed where the spare wheel ought to be.  It wasn?t a particularly big battery, but I was dismayed that they chose to put it there and killed off the option of ever carrying a spare.  The ?gunge kits? they provide instead of a spare won?t work if a tyre is split, typically in the way that a pot hole wrecks them.  It can work for a small puncture such as caused by a nail in the tread, but then the tyre can only be used to get you home and then needs to be replaced. A typical puncture like that can be plugged in a tyre workshop for ?15 and then have a normal lifespan.
>>>>>>>> Living in a rural area, pot holes have become a real problem and it?s too easy to wreck a tyre. On the narrow lane to our village, it used to be that people drove along it at reasonable speed, briefly steering to the side when meeting an oncoming ing car.  These days locals come to a complete stop and let the other car drive at speed into the pot holes and crumbly edges of the road. We don?t drive on the left, we drive on what?s left.
>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 11:25, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ?Just an update. Back from TyreLand in Tooting with two new front tyres. Decided to replace them both, and keep the good one as a spare, given the vast cost. And how often 35 profile tyres seem to get damaged.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> They undid the bolts using a breaker bar, and their heaviest chap standing on it. Replaced with some Coppaslip on the threads - which did look a bit rusty to me.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I'd blamed the bolts being tight on the firm who'd fitted a new set of tyres a couple of years ago - then remembered I'd had new discs and pads for the MOT last year.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Not going to be a problem for me anyway, as the car has no spare wheel or jack.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 09:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts undone.  Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer.  After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the nut.  The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the socket onto the nut.  My long wheel nut wrench was single ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust impact wrenches.  He uses one for speed during initial tightening, but with a rather low torque setting.  He then uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct torque and then does the final tightening of each nut manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he has changed a wheel.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a shock-absorbing rubber one?
>>>>>>>>>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did the trick after that episode and was good for easing the wheel nuts as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike G
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +44 7802 243979
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the first time.  Around here, at my previous house and in the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice and overcharging.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the work with care. The only drawback is that most of these smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered in, but deliveries are usually made morning and afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has been delivered.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous visit, or today when trying to remove it.  When I was running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty.  The plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it difficult to remove.  After a puncture, I was unable to remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost about ?15 for the lot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about tyre fitters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Dave P                                                             London
>>>>>>>>>                                                                  SW
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Dave P                                                             London
>>>>                                                                   SW
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> ?
>> Graeme Wall
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave at davesound.co.uk  Thu Apr 18 03:48:13 2024
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 09:48:13 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <FD22D775-200E-409D-BFDF-DB7D1372D271@me.com>
References: <F584509D-FE50-45B0-B117-527CFC68ED18@btinternet.com>
	<FD22D775-200E-409D-BFDF-DB7D1372D271@me.com>
Message-ID: <4941bb7f-fc0e-4dcd-9d0a-a7563c5fc3d1@davesound.co.uk>

I think it is the other way round. Car makers get perfect tyres to avoid 
having to balance them. Or was the case once. Not talking about the very 
cheapest cars, though, where steel wheels may need balancing themselves. 
Most makers choose a tyre which gives the best grip and NVH rather than 
the longest life.

On 18/04/2024 09:33, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> Many of us will have bought a printer which comes with ?starter 
> cartridges?, which only contain enough ink to last for a short while. 
> ?Buying a set of proper cartridges can cost almost as much as buying 
> the printer itself.
>
> Is there an equivalent sort of cheap ?starter? tyre fitted by car 
> manufacturers? ?I?ve always bought reputable brands of tyres when 
> replacements are needed, but I?ve noticed that the mileage on the 
> initial set of tyres is way less than that of subsequent tyres.
>
> Alan
>
>
>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 09:16, Steve Edwards <s.k.edwards at btinternet.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Tyre problems turn up far more often than we?d like with todays trend 
>> of vehicle manufacturers increasing the radius of the actual wheel by 
>> decreasing the size of the tyre, resulting in a shallower low-profile 
>> tyre wall depth - great for road holding but not so great for 
>> resistance to pothole or kerb damage!!
>>
>>
>> Subsequent damage obviously results in increased aftermarket sales of 
>> tyres - when I looked into the trend of increased wheel diameter some 
>> years ago, it was claimed tyre manufacturers were providing new car 
>> manufacturers with very heavily discounted tyres in order to benefit 
>> from increased aftermarket sales following damage sustained -
>>
>> further benefitting from the extra cost of replacing the low-profile 
>> type tyres, which often have a much bigger price tag.
>>
>>
>> I recall Kwik-Fit were investigated by Watchdog in the Ann Robinson 
>> days.
>>
>> (See YouTube)
>>
>> IMG_6046.jpeg
>>
>>
>> S
>>
>> (?Apologies if tyre sizes have been discussed here previously)
>>
>>
>> Alan Taylor wrote:-
>>
>> When my wife recently bought her car, she was about to sign on the 
>> dotted line for her chosen car when the sales manager for that branch 
>> elbowed his way in to clinch the deal. The young salesman who had 
>> been dealing with it up to then was effectively sidelined at the last 
>> minute. ?She was so miffed at the sales manager?s arrogance, attitude 
>> and misogyny that she told him where to stick his car and immediately 
>> drove to Milton Keynes, ordering an identical car that afternoon, 
>> getting a November delivery date instead of the March/April date 
>> offered by the first dealer.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 17:20, Graeme Wall via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I have one of those in a box of tools I inherited from my father, 
>>> didn?t know what it was!
>>>
>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 17:17, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I bought a job lot of second hand tools. Amongst them was a dead 
>>>> blow hammer with one face consisting of a copper disk at least 1 cm 
>>>> thick and the other face is made of tightly rolled leather hide, 
>>>> looking like a short length of mini Swiss roll. ?The part in the 
>>>> middle is hollow and filled with what I assume is lead shot. The 
>>>> whole thing weighs about 1kg. ?It?s one of those tools which lays 
>>>> undisturbed for years at a time and then turns out to be the 
>>>> perfect solution for a job.
>>>>
>>>> I understand that they?re often used to tighten or undo the wire 
>>>> wheel spinners on classic cars without damaging the chrome finish.
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 15:08, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Quite. And the shot filled rubber type is known as 'dead blow' 
>>>>> which produces an extra thump when it hits. Without damage to 
>>>>> those expensive alloys.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On when it ?16/04/2024 13:56, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>> On the rubber vs metal topic - the lead filled rubber mallet was 
>>>>>> perfect for the task and was less likely to damage the wheel rim 
>>>>>> than a metal hammer, especially working in a confined space where 
>>>>>> the aim might not be too good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike G
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 13:33, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ?Around 1999 I was working on corporate and promotional videos 
>>>>>>> for two rival car manufacturers, Jaguar and BMW. I thought it 
>>>>>>> prudent to keep quiet to each of them about working for the 
>>>>>>> other company and besides I wouldn?t have spoken about anything 
>>>>>>> sensitive anyway.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was about the time that Jaguar were introducing their new S 
>>>>>>> type saloon and BMW owners were clearly part of the market they 
>>>>>>> were aiming for. ?BMW didn?t want to lose customers and were 
>>>>>>> telling their dealers to stress to prospective customers that 
>>>>>>> the boot was so big that you could easily get two bags of golf 
>>>>>>> clubs inside, while Jaguar were telling dealers to point out to 
>>>>>>> customers that their car not only had a spare tyre, but it was a 
>>>>>>> full size tyre and there was still loads of room in the boot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When BMW discovered what Jaguar were saying, the advice to 
>>>>>>> dealers became to say how spare tyres are something for your 
>>>>>>> chauffeur or roadside assistance to worry about. Jaguar in turn 
>>>>>>> emphasised that as a Jaguar owner, they recognise that your time 
>>>>>>> is valuable and in the event of a puncture, they wanted you to 
>>>>>>> be on your way as soon as possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I?m not sure what customers thought about these conflicting 
>>>>>>> arguments. ?I?ve generally been rather unimpressed by car 
>>>>>>> salesmen. ?When my wife recently bought her car, she was about 
>>>>>>> to sign on the dotted line for her chosen car when the sales 
>>>>>>> manager for that branch elbowed his way in to clinch the deal. 
>>>>>>> The young salesman who had been dealing with it up to then was 
>>>>>>> effectively sidelined at the last minute. ?She was so miffed at 
>>>>>>> the sales manager?s arrogance, attitude and misogyny that she 
>>>>>>> told him where to stick his car and immediately drove to Milton 
>>>>>>> Keynes, ordering an identical car that afternoon, getting a 
>>>>>>> November delivery date instead of the March/April date offered 
>>>>>>> by the first dealer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 12:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ?I know what you mean, but the car in question was bought for 
>>>>>>>> my third childhood. It's a Porsche Boxster. And even a 
>>>>>>>> space-saver would reduce the limited luggage space too much. 
>>>>>>>> The tyre I kept wouldn't even fit the 'boot'. Had to be carried 
>>>>>>>> inside.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 11:49, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I?m glad that Dave?s problem has been resolved. He then 
>>>>>>>>> touched upon a topic which really saddens me, the lack of a 
>>>>>>>>> spare tyre in modern cars.
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> My wife and I have each bought new cars in the last six months 
>>>>>>>>> and of course neither of them comes with a spare, but we did 
>>>>>>>>> make sure that we bought models where there was provision to 
>>>>>>>>> carry a space saver tyre. The manufacturers want to charge 
>>>>>>>>> about ?500 for a spare, I bought them with jacks and cross 
>>>>>>>>> braces for about ?120 each.
>>>>>>>>> When we looked at cars, one possible contender had the battery 
>>>>>>>>> for the hybrid installed where the spare wheel ought to be. 
>>>>>>>>> ?It wasn?t a particularly big battery, but I was dismayed that 
>>>>>>>>> they chose to put it there and killed off the option of ever 
>>>>>>>>> carrying a spare. ?The ?gunge kits? they provide instead of a 
>>>>>>>>> spare won?t work if a tyre is split, typically in the way that 
>>>>>>>>> a pot hole wrecks them. ?It can work for a small puncture such 
>>>>>>>>> as caused by a nail in the tread, but then the tyre can only 
>>>>>>>>> be used to get you home and then needs to be replaced. A 
>>>>>>>>> typical puncture like that can be plugged in a tyre workshop 
>>>>>>>>> for ?15 and then have a normal lifespan.
>>>>>>>>> Living in a rural area, pot holes have become a real problem 
>>>>>>>>> and it?s too easy to wreck a tyre. On the narrow lane to our 
>>>>>>>>> village, it used to be that people drove along it at 
>>>>>>>>> reasonable speed, briefly steering to the side when meeting an 
>>>>>>>>> oncoming ing car. ?These days locals come to a complete stop 
>>>>>>>>> and let the other car drive at speed into the pot holes and 
>>>>>>>>> crumbly edges of the road. We don?t drive on the left, we 
>>>>>>>>> drive on what?s left.
>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 11:25, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>>>>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ?Just an update. Back from TyreLand in Tooting with two new 
>>>>>>>>>> front tyres. Decided to replace them both, and keep the good 
>>>>>>>>>> one as a spare, given the vast cost. And how often 35 profile 
>>>>>>>>>> tyres seem to get damaged.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They undid the bolts using a breaker bar, and their heaviest 
>>>>>>>>>> chap standing on it. Replaced with some Coppaslip on the 
>>>>>>>>>> threads - which did look a bit rusty to me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd blamed the bolts being tight on the firm who'd fitted a 
>>>>>>>>>> new set of tyres a couple of years ago - then remembered I'd 
>>>>>>>>>> had new discs and pads for the MOT last year.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not going to be a problem for me anyway, as the car has no 
>>>>>>>>>> spare wheel or jack.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 09:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking 
>>>>>>>>>>> stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem 
>>>>>>>>>>> Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts 
>>>>>>>>>>> undone. ?Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about 
>>>>>>>>>>> removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts 
>>>>>>>>>>> got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to 
>>>>>>>>>>> select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight 
>>>>>>>>>>> fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer. 
>>>>>>>>>>> ?After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the 
>>>>>>>>>>> nut. ?The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could 
>>>>>>>>>>> apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite 
>>>>>>>>>>> ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the 
>>>>>>>>>>> socket onto the nut. ?My long wheel nut wrench was single 
>>>>>>>>>>> ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, 
>>>>>>>>>>> which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the 
>>>>>>>>>>> fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust 
>>>>>>>>>>> impact wrenches. ?He uses one for speed during initial 
>>>>>>>>>>> tightening, but with a rather low torque setting. ?He then 
>>>>>>>>>>> uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct 
>>>>>>>>>>> torque and then does the final tightening of each nut 
>>>>>>>>>>> manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he 
>>>>>>>>>>> has changed a wheel.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have 
>>>>>>>>>>>> been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> shock-absorbing rubber one?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the trick after that episode and was good for easing the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wheel nuts as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike G
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +44 7802 243979
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first time. ?Around here, at my previous house and in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and overcharging.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work with care. The only drawback is that most of these 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in, but deliveries are usually made morning and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been delivered.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visit, or today when trying to remove it. ?When I was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty. ?The 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult to remove. ?After a puncture, I was unable to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about ?15 for the lot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tyre fitters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Dave P 
>>>>>>>>>> ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????London
>>>>>>>>>> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????SW
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dave P 
>>>>> ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????London
>>>>> ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????SW
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>> ?
>>> Graeme Wall
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-- 
Dave P                                                             London
                                                                      SW
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From patrick.heigham at gmail.com  Thu Apr 18 04:23:12 2024
From: patrick.heigham at gmail.com (PATRICK HEIGHAM)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 10:23:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <F584509D-FE50-45B0-B117-527CFC68ED18@btinternet.com>
References: <F584509D-FE50-45B0-B117-527CFC68ED18@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <43ad68ac-aff8-48cc-94d6-d340bb30c96e@gmail.com>

That explains why it's easy to damage the alloy rims with 'kerbing'.

My BMW bodyshop offers a cosmetic refurbishment of alloys, but at ?85 
per wheel.

I obtained a great little accessory - electric tyre inflater - Airhawk.

Runs on rechargeable battery or cable to 12v cigar socket.
Set the pressure required and it stops automatically when reached.

I was intrigued by a system from Amazon:
Tyre pressure monitoring system.

This tells which tyre is down with an in-car display.
My now 14 year old vehicle does have a tyre pressure monitor, but no 
clue as to which one.
The car is so beautifuly balanced, that I can tell from its handling, 
before the system
warns me.

Pat (keen on? toys for boys!)

On 18/04/2024 09:15, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
> Tyre problems turn up far more often than we?d like with todays trend 
> of vehicle manufacturers increasing the radius of the actual wheel by 
> decreasing the size of the tyre, resulting in a shallower low-profile 
> tyre wall depth - great for road holding but not so great for 
> resistance to pothole or kerb damage!!
>
>
> Subsequent damage obviously results in increased aftermarket sales of 
> tyres - when I looked into the trend of increased wheel diameter some 
> years ago, it was claimed tyre manufacturers were providing new car 
> manufacturers with very heavily discounted tyres in order to benefit 
> from increased aftermarket sales following damage sustained -
>
> further benefitting from the extra cost of replacing the low-profile 
> type tyres, which often have a much bigger price tag.
>
>
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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 18 04:36:12 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 10:36:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <FD22D775-200E-409D-BFDF-DB7D1372D271@me.com>
References: <F584509D-FE50-45B0-B117-527CFC68ED18@btinternet.com>
	<FD22D775-200E-409D-BFDF-DB7D1372D271@me.com>
Message-ID: <58e6fa53-cfb9-444d-81bd-f6f0536f5092@gmail.com>

I think it is the other way round. Car makers get perfect tyres to avoid 
having to balance them. Or was the case once. Not talking about the very 
cheapest cars, though, where steel wheels may need balancing themselves. 
Most makers choose a tyre which gives the best grip and NVH rather than 
the longest life.

On 18/04/2024 09:33, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> Many of us will have bought a printer which comes with ?starter 
> cartridges?, which only contain enough ink to last for a short while. 
> ?Buying a set of proper cartridges can cost almost as much as buying 
> the printer itself.
>
> Is there an equivalent sort of cheap ?starter? tyre fitted by car 
> manufacturers? ?I?ve always bought reputable brands of tyres when 
> replacements are needed, but I?ve noticed that the mileage on the 
> initial set of tyres is way less than that of subsequent tyres.
>
> Alan
>
>
>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 09:16, Steve Edwards <s.k.edwards at btinternet.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Tyre problems turn up far more often than we?d like with todays trend 
>> of vehicle manufacturers increasing the radius of the actual wheel by 
>> decreasing the size of the tyre, resulting in a shallower low-profile 
>> tyre wall depth - great for road holding but not so great for 
>> resistance to pothole or kerb damage!!
>>
>>
>> Subsequent damage obviously results in increased aftermarket sales of 
>> tyres - when I looked into the trend of increased wheel diameter some 
>> years ago, it was claimed tyre manufacturers were providing new car 
>> manufacturers with very heavily discounted tyres in order to benefit 
>> from increased aftermarket sales following damage sustained -
>>
>> further benefitting from the extra cost of replacing the low-profile 
>> type tyres, which often have a much bigger price tag.
>>
>>
>> I recall Kwik-Fit were investigated by Watchdog in the Ann Robinson 
>> days.
>>
>> (See YouTube)
>>
>> IMG_6046.jpeg
>>
>>
>> S
>>
>> (?Apologies if tyre sizes have been discussed here previously)
>>
>>
>> Alan Taylor wrote:-
>>
>> When my wife recently bought her car, she was about to sign on the 
>> dotted line for her chosen car when the sales manager for that branch 
>> elbowed his way in to clinch the deal. The young salesman who had 
>> been dealing with it up to then was effectively sidelined at the last 
>> minute. ?She was so miffed at the sales manager?s arrogance, attitude 
>> and misogyny that she told him where to stick his car and immediately 
>> drove to Milton Keynes, ordering an identical car that afternoon, 
>> getting a November delivery date instead of the March/April date 
>> offered by the first dealer.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 17:20, Graeme Wall via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I have one of those in a box of tools I inherited from my father, 
>>> didn?t know what it was!
>>>
>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 17:17, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I bought a job lot of second hand tools. Amongst them was a dead 
>>>> blow hammer with one face consisting of a copper disk at least 1 cm 
>>>> thick and the other face is made of tightly rolled leather hide, 
>>>> looking like a short length of mini Swiss roll. ?The part in the 
>>>> middle is hollow and filled with what I assume is lead shot. The 
>>>> whole thing weighs about 1kg. ?It?s one of those tools which lays 
>>>> undisturbed for years at a time and then turns out to be the 
>>>> perfect solution for a job.
>>>>
>>>> I understand that they?re often used to tighten or undo the wire 
>>>> wheel spinners on classic cars without damaging the chrome finish.
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 15:08, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Quite. And the shot filled rubber type is known as 'dead blow' 
>>>>> which produces an extra thump when it hits. Without damage to 
>>>>> those expensive alloys.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On when it ?16/04/2024 13:56, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>> On the rubber vs metal topic - the lead filled rubber mallet was 
>>>>>> perfect for the task and was less likely to damage the wheel rim 
>>>>>> than a metal hammer, especially working in a confined space where 
>>>>>> the aim might not be too good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike G
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 13:33, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ?Around 1999 I was working on corporate and promotional videos 
>>>>>>> for two rival car manufacturers, Jaguar and BMW. I thought it 
>>>>>>> prudent to keep quiet to each of them about working for the 
>>>>>>> other company and besides I wouldn?t have spoken about anything 
>>>>>>> sensitive anyway.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was about the time that Jaguar were introducing their new S 
>>>>>>> type saloon and BMW owners were clearly part of the market they 
>>>>>>> were aiming for. ?BMW didn?t want to lose customers and were 
>>>>>>> telling their dealers to stress to prospective customers that 
>>>>>>> the boot was so big that you could easily get two bags of golf 
>>>>>>> clubs inside, while Jaguar were telling dealers to point out to 
>>>>>>> customers that their car not only had a spare tyre, but it was a 
>>>>>>> full size tyre and there was still loads of room in the boot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When BMW discovered what Jaguar were saying, the advice to 
>>>>>>> dealers became to say how spare tyres are something for your 
>>>>>>> chauffeur or roadside assistance to worry about. Jaguar in turn 
>>>>>>> emphasised that as a Jaguar owner, they recognise that your time 
>>>>>>> is valuable and in the event of a puncture, they wanted you to 
>>>>>>> be on your way as soon as possible.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I?m not sure what customers thought about these conflicting 
>>>>>>> arguments. ?I?ve generally been rather unimpressed by car 
>>>>>>> salesmen. ?When my wife recently bought her car, she was about 
>>>>>>> to sign on the dotted line for her chosen car when the sales 
>>>>>>> manager for that branch elbowed his way in to clinch the deal. 
>>>>>>> The young salesman who had been dealing with it up to then was 
>>>>>>> effectively sidelined at the last minute. ?She was so miffed at 
>>>>>>> the sales manager?s arrogance, attitude and misogyny that she 
>>>>>>> told him where to stick his car and immediately drove to Milton 
>>>>>>> Keynes, ordering an identical car that afternoon, getting a 
>>>>>>> November delivery date instead of the March/April date offered 
>>>>>>> by the first dealer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 12:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ?I know what you mean, but the car in question was bought for 
>>>>>>>> my third childhood. It's a Porsche Boxster. And even a 
>>>>>>>> space-saver would reduce the limited luggage space too much. 
>>>>>>>> The tyre I kept wouldn't even fit the 'boot'. Had to be carried 
>>>>>>>> inside.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 11:49, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I?m glad that Dave?s problem has been resolved. He then 
>>>>>>>>> touched upon a topic which really saddens me, the lack of a 
>>>>>>>>> spare tyre in modern cars.
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> My wife and I have each bought new cars in the last six months 
>>>>>>>>> and of course neither of them comes with a spare, but we did 
>>>>>>>>> make sure that we bought models where there was provision to 
>>>>>>>>> carry a space saver tyre. The manufacturers want to charge 
>>>>>>>>> about ?500 for a spare, I bought them with jacks and cross 
>>>>>>>>> braces for about ?120 each.
>>>>>>>>> When we looked at cars, one possible contender had the battery 
>>>>>>>>> for the hybrid installed where the spare wheel ought to be. 
>>>>>>>>> ?It wasn?t a particularly big battery, but I was dismayed that 
>>>>>>>>> they chose to put it there and killed off the option of ever 
>>>>>>>>> carrying a spare. ?The ?gunge kits? they provide instead of a 
>>>>>>>>> spare won?t work if a tyre is split, typically in the way that 
>>>>>>>>> a pot hole wrecks them. ?It can work for a small puncture such 
>>>>>>>>> as caused by a nail in the tread, but then the tyre can only 
>>>>>>>>> be used to get you home and then needs to be replaced. A 
>>>>>>>>> typical puncture like that can be plugged in a tyre workshop 
>>>>>>>>> for ?15 and then have a normal lifespan.
>>>>>>>>> Living in a rural area, pot holes have become a real problem 
>>>>>>>>> and it?s too easy to wreck a tyre. On the narrow lane to our 
>>>>>>>>> village, it used to be that people drove along it at 
>>>>>>>>> reasonable speed, briefly steering to the side when meeting an 
>>>>>>>>> oncoming ing car. ?These days locals come to a complete stop 
>>>>>>>>> and let the other car drive at speed into the pot holes and 
>>>>>>>>> crumbly edges of the road. We don?t drive on the left, we 
>>>>>>>>> drive on what?s left.
>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 11:25, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>>>>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ?Just an update. Back from TyreLand in Tooting with two new 
>>>>>>>>>> front tyres. Decided to replace them both, and keep the good 
>>>>>>>>>> one as a spare, given the vast cost. And how often 35 profile 
>>>>>>>>>> tyres seem to get damaged.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They undid the bolts using a breaker bar, and their heaviest 
>>>>>>>>>> chap standing on it. Replaced with some Coppaslip on the 
>>>>>>>>>> threads - which did look a bit rusty to me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd blamed the bolts being tight on the firm who'd fitted a 
>>>>>>>>>> new set of tyres a couple of years ago - then remembered I'd 
>>>>>>>>>> had new discs and pads for the MOT last year.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not going to be a problem for me anyway, as the car has no 
>>>>>>>>>> spare wheel or jack.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 16/04/2024 09:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Much as we all appreciate the satisfaction of whacking 
>>>>>>>>>>> stubborn hardware with a dirty great big hammer, the problem 
>>>>>>>>>>> Dave was describing was being unable to get the wheel nuts 
>>>>>>>>>>> undone. ?Once the wheel nuts are undone, he can think about 
>>>>>>>>>>> removing the wheel, either easily, or with a big hammer.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For what it?s worth, when my plastic coated Ford wheel nuts 
>>>>>>>>>>> got rounded off by ham-fisted fitters, the solution was to 
>>>>>>>>>>> select a ?? socket of whatever size happened to be a tight 
>>>>>>>>>>> fit on it and then hammer it on with a really big hammer. 
>>>>>>>>>>> ?After that, a cross shaped wheel brace was used to undo the 
>>>>>>>>>>> nut. ?The two opposing arms meant that the fitter could 
>>>>>>>>>>> apply equal amounts of upward and downward force to opposite 
>>>>>>>>>>> ends of the arms and undo the nut, while still pressing the 
>>>>>>>>>>> socket onto the nut. ?My long wheel nut wrench was single 
>>>>>>>>>>> ended and caused the socket to slip off the misshapen nut, 
>>>>>>>>>>> which is why I couldn?t undo it. The wheel brace used by the 
>>>>>>>>>>> fitter worked even when his impact wrench failed to do the job.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Incidentally, the tyre fitter I use in Banbury doesn?t trust 
>>>>>>>>>>> impact wrenches. ?He uses one for speed during initial 
>>>>>>>>>>> tightening, but with a rather low torque setting. ?He then 
>>>>>>>>>>> uses a massive torque wrench where he dials in the correct 
>>>>>>>>>>> torque and then does the final tightening of each nut 
>>>>>>>>>>> manually. It?s never a problem undoing wheel nuts after he 
>>>>>>>>>>> has changed a wheel.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 09:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Surely, a carefully applied solid steel mallet would have 
>>>>>>>>>>>> been better, as the initial impact is far greater than a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> shock-absorbing rubber one?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 08:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?I had the same issue with a Ford Mondeo estate, in that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> even with all the nuts off, the wheel wouldn?t budge - it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> took an RAC man lying underneath the car with a large, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lead filled rubber mallet to move it. Copper grease did 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the trick after that episode and was good for easing the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wheel nuts as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike G
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 20:33, Paul Thackray via Tech1 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clue is in the name? Kwikfit ( but slow remove?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +44 7802 243979
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 15 April 2024 22:27
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: alanaudio at me.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reply to: barry-wilkinson at sky.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Just another day.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the car is a VW they have a common problem of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wheels getting stuck on the hub due to steel to alloy 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corrosion. A knock with a suitably big hammer usually 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> releases them ( after taking the wheel nuts off)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 18:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?I think that your mistake was going to Kwik-Fit the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first time. ?Around here, at my previous house and in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the areas where my motoring children live, KF have a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrible reputation for poor workmanship, dodgy advice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and overcharging.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I?ve had good success with independently owned tyre 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fitting workshops. You see the same staff there for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years on end, the prices are way lower and they do the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work with care. The only drawback is that most of these 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smaller places don?t carry a comprehensive stock of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tyres, which means that your new tyre has to be ordered 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in, but deliveries are usually made morning and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> afternoon. I phone ahead and pop in when the tyre has 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been delivered.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It certainly sounds as though they might have wrecked 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the nut holding on the wheel, either on your previous 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visit, or today when trying to remove it. ?When I was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running Ford cars, the wheel nuts were metal with a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chromed plastic veneer to make them look pretty. ?The 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plastic part was easily damaged, which makes it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difficult to remove. ?After a puncture, I was unable to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remove a wheel using a long tyre wrench which I carried 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the car and needed to call for roadside assistance to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the wheel off. That evening I bought solid steel 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wheel nuts on eBay and replaced them all - it only cost 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about ?15 for the lot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are having the same problem, I can explain how 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they got the rounded nuts undone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?s worth asking neighbours for recommendations about 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tyre fitters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 15 Apr 2024, at 17:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ?Took my car to Kwik-Fit today, to have a puncture 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> repaired. They couldn't undo the wheel bolts and say it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs a specialist to do this. And guess who fitted a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new set of tyres a year ago?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Dave P 
>>>>>>>>>> ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????London
>>>>>>>>>> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????SW
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dave P 
>>>>> ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????London
>>>>> ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????SW
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>> ?
>>> Graeme Wall
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Thu Apr 18 04:55:28 2024
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 10:55:28 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <43ad68ac-aff8-48cc-94d6-d340bb30c96e@gmail.com>
References: <F584509D-FE50-45B0-B117-527CFC68ED18@btinternet.com>
	<43ad68ac-aff8-48cc-94d6-d340bb30c96e@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b2e36921-2909-4c58-8e61-5c1f6ce291d5@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 18/04/2024 10:23, PATRICK HEIGHAM via Tech1 wrote:
> ....
>
> The car is so beautifuly balanced, that I can tell from its handling, 
> before the system
> warns me.
>
>
The reverse of that - our ancient Jazz (ideal for corner-rounding 
Cornish Lanes) has had a couple of slow punctures caused by road damage, 
one front and one rear.

What amazed me is that the seriously deflated tyres (but not actually 
flat) had so little effect on the handling that we couldn't tell - no 
pulling to one side, no heavy steering. Actually had to have people 
driving past us to point out the problem.

Chris Woolf




From ware.nick at aol.com  Thu Apr 18 05:03:52 2024
From: ware.nick at aol.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 11:03:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <B6EDC7AD-B6AF-4D61-A1B4-1286CC77813B@mac.com>
References: <B6EDC7AD-B6AF-4D61-A1B4-1286CC77813B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <53B26A2B-0855-4019-B4AA-497881580E5F@aol.com>

More anoraky stuff, and still on tools, here?s a selection of my hole drilling weapons.
The ones along the back, for drilling parallel holes in pipe-racks for wooden organ pipes. The one front second from right, for tapering holes for metal pipes.
The taper pin reamer front second from left, started out life in my school days as a chassis cutter for Octal, B9A, and B7G valve holders. That one later reamed out lead water mains pipes for solder connection to (then 1/2?) copper in two houses. Thereafter, it became an honorary member of the organ toolkit. The one front left was a later purchase, better in a tight because you could use it single handed, leaving the other hand free to hold the ?job? steady.
Plumbing in our present 1970?s house is a bit of a nightmare because everything is either chased into walls, behind tiling, or under inaccessible floors, etc. I don?t have the energy for any of that now. Ideally we should have had that all done before we moved in. Temporarily, I?ve diverted all the header tank gravity-fed basins, loos, sinks etc through the shower pump to get better pressure and faster loo cistern filling, etc.
We don?t see this as our forever home (too big for just two occupants), so will almost certainly go for a new-build next time.
Cheers,
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
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> On 18 Apr 2024, at 06:20, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?My first experience of plumbing was to make a copper to lead joint at the point where the old pipe entered the kitchen through the floor. We had been in the house for a few weeks and had found the incoming water pressure very low, which was explained when I cut the normal looking lead to find an internal diameter of about 8mm - just big enough to take a pencil. I thought at first it must be limescale, but the lead pipe proved to be very thick walled and extremely brittle. My first attempts at swelling the lead with my newly acquired equipment to accept a piece of 15mm copper resulted in the pipe splitting and after two or three goes I was getting perilously close to having nothing left to work with, so I decided to gouge out the lead instead and just about managed to insert half an inch of copper tube. It has to be said that my subsequent attempts at a wiped joint left much to be desired and needed several revisits to make it watertight, so I swore I would never do my own plumbing again!
[snip]

From patrick.heigham at gmail.com  Thu Apr 18 05:53:13 2024
From: patrick.heigham at gmail.com (PATRICK HEIGHAM)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 11:53:13 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <F584509D-FE50-45B0-B117-527CFC68ED18@btinternet.com>
References: <F584509D-FE50-45B0-B117-527CFC68ED18@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <cd727fa3-7e41-43e3-818b-246fdb868fe0@gmail.com>

When I lashed out on my current car, 14 years ago!
I started an Excel spreadsheet of costings.

This is an extract to date: (*includes the initial cost of the vehicle).

COST PER MILE (running)0.63

COST PER MILE (inc.vehicle)* 1.21*

AVERAGE COST PER MILE0.92

Cost per day12.04*

AVERAGE ANNUAL RUNNING COST2301.95

The biggest sums over 14 years were - fuel and insurance.

One could take taxis, I suppose.

Pat H


On 18/04/2024 09:15, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
> Tyre problems turn up far more often than we?d like with todays trend 
> of vehicle manufacturers increasing the radius of the actual wheel by 
> decreasing the size of the tyre, resulting in a shallower low-profile 
> tyre wall depth - great for road holding but not so great for 
> resistance to pothole or kerb damage!!
>
>
> Subsequent damage obviously results in increased aftermarket sales of 
> tyres - when I looked into the trend of increased wheel diameter some 
> years ago, it was claimed tyre manufacturers were providing new car 
> manufacturers with very heavily discounted tyres in order to benefit 
> from increased aftermarket sales following damage sustained -
>
> further benefitting from the extra cost of replacing the low-profile 
> type tyres, which often have a much bigger price tag.
>
>
> I recall Kwik-Fit were investigated by Watchdog in the Ann Robinson days.
>
> (See YouTube)
>
> S
>
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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 18 07:17:22 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 13:17:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <B6EDC7AD-B6AF-4D61-A1B4-1286CC77813B@mac.com>
References: <B6EDC7AD-B6AF-4D61-A1B4-1286CC77813B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <70e8ba37-6cec-4676-b23a-108938a6b771@gmail.com>

When I bought this house in 1974 - the days when even a lowly sound 
assistant could afford to - one of the first plumbing jobs was to sort 
the leaking stopcock - in a lead pipe - in the cellar. I did try to 
re-pack the gland round the spindle, but this had obviously been bodged 
before, as the thread was knackered. And a direct replacement for a 100 
year old valve not available. So the obvious way was to chop out the 
valve, do lead to copper pipe either side, and use a modern valve. I 
opened up the inside of the lead using a 'bastard' round file. So I 
could push in the copper tube a few inches. Tinned the copper and tapped 
it in with loads of flux Then sweated it together adding some low 
melting point solder. The lead pipe from the street and that stopcock 
are still here today.

It's a laugh being told I can't now legally replace, say, a gas hob 
myself. Given I ripped out all the original iron barrel gas pipes that 
went to every room in this Victorian house and ran in new in copper for 
the boiler and gas hob myself. The gas meter has been changed four times 
- and they check for leaks after doing this, so guess they are happy 
with my plumbing.

On 18/04/2024 06:19, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
> ?My first experience of plumbing was to make a copper to lead joint at the point where the old pipe entered the kitchen through the floor. We had been in the house for a few weeks and had found the incoming water pressure very low, which was explained when I cut the normal looking lead to find an internal diameter of about 8mm - just big enough to take a pencil. I thought at first it must be limescale, but the lead pipe proved to be very thick walled and extremely brittle. My first attempts at swelling the lead with my newly acquired equipment to accept a piece of 15mm copper resulted in the pipe splitting and after two or three goes I was getting perilously close to having nothing left to work with, so I decided to gouge out the lead instead and just about managed to insert half an inch of copper tube. It has to be said that my subsequent attempts at a wiped joint left much to be desired and needed several revisits to make it watertight, so I swore I would never do my own plumbing again!
>
> But soon after that we employed a couple of highly recommended chaps to install central heating, for the princely sum of ?85 (late 1960s) for their labour, but they made such a hash of the job overall that I ended up having to finish it off and haven?t looked back since, with three CH systems and various other water related projects under my belt.
>
> Nil desperandum!
>
> Mike G
>
>> On 17 Apr 2024, at 08:05, Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> ?I once bought a tool for swaging 15mm copper tube, but you drove it in with a hammer and created a parallel socket that slid over the unaltered end of the previous pipe. I only ever made one joint with it as a test and it was too much hassle. It might have made sense in a run of several full 3 metre lengths where the ends weren't turned in by a pipe slice but fittings are so cheap by the hundreds that it wastes more time than the cost of connector. Nick's apparatus, I hesitate to use the word tool, would make a conical socket.  I recall having a cone shaped tool for making a wiped joint in lead piping, or the lead to copper joint that I was forced to do by a leak where the incoming supply pipe was lead and it changed to copper for indoors. There are compression lead to copper fittings for that now, rated by lbs according to the length/weight of the lead pipe, 7lbs is typical . I bought proper plumbers wiping solder and a moleskin (not actually mole of course) pad and wax flux, from a traditional local builders merchant in Biggin Hill. That was in the 1970s and I wouldn't have much luck now.  I didn't manage a  classic wiped joint, far from it, but it didnt leak. I guess that well over a hundred years ago the majority of water pipework was lead hence the "plumbum" (!)  in plumber but if Nick has got one it's bound to be something to do with making  organ pipes?
>>
>> Peter Fox
>>
>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 23:54, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?If your car has room for a space-saver spare tyre, I would strongly recommend that you get one.
>>
>> The tyre repair kit supplied with newer cars only works under certain circumstances. The puncture must be no bigger than 4mm, the puncture must be in the main tread and there must be no damage to the sidewall or wheel rim.  Roadside assistance services would need to source a replacement tyre if gunge can?t be used. At night, bank holidays or weekends, that might involve an extremely lengthy delay, possibly overnight or even more than one night.
>>
>> Around here, a lot of people are getting tyres wrecked by pot holes, which typically split the sidewall and/or dent the wheel rim. The gunge kit is likely to be useless for those repairs.
>>
>> One of Janet?s colleagues discovered a punctured tyre in the hospital car park.  Janet phoned me to ask how to help her use the gunge kit. I advised not to use it and took a jack and wheel brace over . We removed the wheel and took it to the tyre fitter who pulled out a screw, plugged the hole and only charged ?15.  If she had used the gunge, it would have meant replacing the tyre ( ?220 ) plus an additional charge for cleaning up the gunge.
>>
>> Another time I stopped to help somebody in the lane through our village who had hit a pot hole, split the tyre and used gunge to try and fix it.  It kept oozing out and he only managed to drive a few hundred metres before having to pull over again. The tyre was a write-off three times over. Once because of the split, secondly by driving on it while flat and again because of the gunge.
>>
>> The tyre kits do have one advantage.  The electrically operated air compressor can be used to inflate your tyres free of charge, instead of having to pay to use the air compressor at a petrol station, so you have no excuse for not having them at the correct pressure.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 23:08, B Wilkinson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? my Kia Niro EV has no spare and the tyres are not run flat. Just a complicated looking aerosol can and an electric pump. It?s a good job I don?t go far now, just in case!
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From ware.nick at aol.com  Thu Apr 18 08:49:54 2024
From: ware.nick at aol.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 14:49:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <70e8ba37-6cec-4676-b23a-108938a6b771@gmail.com>
References: <70e8ba37-6cec-4676-b23a-108938a6b771@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <133A9338-901F-4B27-B639-4451CDCE050C@aol.com>

I think it safe to say that in the 70?s, Do It Yourself meant more realistically Do It Right. Not so now, it seems, hence tighter regulations. When we bought this house five years ago, it came with a full electrical compliance checklist, listing every light fitting, DSSO, light switch, distribution, etc., each and every one ticked as a pass. It very soon became clear that the previous owner was an incompetent DIY bodger. One of my first tasks was to replace all tungsten bulbs with LED?s. The first brass wall light fitting I touched nearly threw me off the ladder. No earth, and a live wire, stripped back too far had shorted to the metalwork. Not impressed, so checked and upgraded everything as necessary. Countless similar faults found.
And then there was the gas - much of it totally illegal.
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

> On 18 Apr 2024, at 13:17, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?When I bought this house in 1974 - the days when even a lowly sound assistant could afford to - one of the first plumbing jobs was to sort the leaking stopcock - in a lead pipe - in the cellar. I did try to re-pack the gland round the spindle, but this had obviously been bodged before, as the thread was knackered. And a direct replacement for a 100 year old valve not available. So the obvious way was to chop out the valve, do lead to copper pipe either side, and use a modern valve. I opened up the inside of the lead using a 'bastard' round file. So I could push in the copper tube a few inches. Tinned the copper and tapped it in with loads of flux Then sweated it together adding some low melting point solder. The lead pipe from the street and that stopcock are still here today.
> 
> It's a laugh being told I can't now legally replace, say, a gas hob myself. Given I ripped out all the original iron barrel gas pipes that went to every room in this Victorian house and ran in new in copper for the boiler and gas hob myself. The gas meter has been changed four times - and they check for leaks after doing this, so guess they are happy with my plumbing.



From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 18 08:57:18 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 14:57:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <133A9338-901F-4B27-B639-4451CDCE050C@aol.com>
References: <70e8ba37-6cec-4676-b23a-108938a6b771@gmail.com>
	<133A9338-901F-4B27-B639-4451CDCE050C@aol.com>
Message-ID: <94ac4aca-68ab-4a61-95aa-83c439eba5dc@gmail.com>

Very difficult to know if it were the results of bad DIY or a cowboy 
'tradesman'? DIYers have to live with the result of their bodges - a 
cowboy doesn't.

On 18/04/2024 14:49, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> I think it safe to say that in the 70?s, Do It Yourself meant more realistically Do It Right. Not so now, it seems, hence tighter regulations. When we bought this house five years ago, it came with a full elecult to knowctrical compliance checklist, listing every light fitting, DSSO, light switch, distribution, etc., each and every one ticked as a pass. It very soon became clear that the previous owner was an incompetent DIY bodger. One of my first tasks was to replace all tungsten bulbs with LED?s. The first brass wall light fitting I touched nearly threw me off the ladder. No earth, and a live wire, stripped back too far had shorted to the metalwork. Not impressed, so checked and upgraded everything as necessary. Countless similar faults found.
> And then there was the gas - much of it totally illegal.
> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 13:17, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?When I bought this house in 1974 - the days when even a lowly sound assistant could afford to - one of the first plumbing jobs was to sort the leaking stopcock - in a lead pipe - in the cellar. I did try to re-pack the gland round the spindle, but this had obviously been bodged before, as the thread was knackered. And a direct replacement for a 100 year old valve not available. So the obvious way was to chop out the valve, do lead to copper pipe either side, and use a modern valve. I opened up the inside of the lead using a 'bastard' round file. So I could push in the copper tube a few inches. Tinned the copper and tapped it in with loads of flux Then sweated it together adding some low melting point solder. The lead pipe from the street and that stopcock are still here today.
>>
>> It's a laugh being told I can't now legally replace, say, a gas hob myself. Given I ripped out all the original iron barrel gas pipes that went to every room in this Victorian house and ran in new in copper for the boiler and gas hob myself. The gas meter has been changed four times - and they check for leaks after doing this, so guess they are happy with my plumbing.
> 
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From ware.nick at aol.com  Thu Apr 18 09:55:14 2024
From: ware.nick at aol.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 15:55:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
References: <D4433908-8183-44E1-9B06-5A100BFADEE4.ref@aol.com>
Message-ID: <D4433908-8183-44E1-9B06-5A100BFADEE4@aol.com>

?True, but if the DIYer doesn?t know his own handiwork is a bodge??
You know the saying: ?Ignorance is Bliss?.
There are plenty of dodgy tradesmen around here though, so I?ll keep an open mind.
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

> On 18 Apr 2024, at 14:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Very difficult to know if it were the results of bad DIY or a cowboy 'tradesman'? DIYers have to live with the result of their bodges - a cowboy doesn't.
> 
>> On 18/04/2024 14:49, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>> I think it safe to say that in the 70?s, Do It Yourself meant more realistically Do It Right. Not so now, it seems, hence tighter regulations. When we bought this house five years ago, it came with a full elecult to knowctrical compliance checklist, listing every light fitting, DSSO, light switch, distribution, etc., each and every one ticked as a pass. It very soon became clear that the previous owner was an incompetent DIY bodger. One of my first tasks was to replace all tungsten bulbs with LED?s. The first brass wall light fitting I touched nearly threw me off the ladder. No earth, and a live wire, stripped back too far had shorted to the metalwork. Not impressed, so checked and upgraded everything as necessary. Countless similar faults found.
>> And then there was the gas - much of it totally illegal.
>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 13:17, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?When I bought this house in 1974 - the days when even a lowly sound assistant could afford to - one of the first plumbing jobs was to sort the leaking stopcock - in a lead pipe - in the cellar. I did try to re-pack the gland round the spindle, but this had obviously been bodged before, as the thread was knackered. And a direct replacement for a 100 year old valve not available. So the obvious way was to chop out the valve, do lead to copper pipe either side, and use a modern valve. I opened up the inside of the lead using a 'bastard' round file. So I could push in the copper tube a few inches. Tinned the copper and tapped it in with loads of flux Then sweated it together adding some low melting point solder. The lead pipe from the street and that stopcock are still here today.
>>> It's a laugh being told I can't now legally replace, say, a gas hob myself. Given I ripped out all the original iron barrel gas pipes that went to every room in this Victorian house and ran in new in copper for the boiler and gas hob myself. The gas meter has been changed four times - and they check for leaks after doing this, so guess they are happy with my plumbing.
> 
> --
> Dave Plowman
> London, SW
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Thu Apr 18 09:56:43 2024
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 15:56:43 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Pensioners  Association AGM
Message-ID: <057f01da91a0$a251b6b0$e6f52410$@pgtmedia.co.uk>

Is anyone else planning to go to the BBCPA AGM next Thursday (25/4/2024)?

(I assume Albert will or it may be a short meeting)

Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
+44 7802 243979
Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk

Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/




From davidpcarter at btinternet.com  Thu Apr 18 10:01:42 2024
From: davidpcarter at btinternet.com (David Carter)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 16:01:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Pensioners  Association AGM
In-Reply-To: <057f01da91a0$a251b6b0$e6f52410$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <057f01da91a0$a251b6b0$e6f52410$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <F8EC750D-D534-40B9-8640-079669F06537@btinternet.com>

Certainly planning to.  There?s usually a good turn out ?. Plus tea and biscuits!

David


> On 18 Apr 2024, at 15:56, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Is anyone else planning to go to the BBCPA AGM next Thursday (25/4/2024)?
> 
> (I assume Albert will or it may be a short meeting)
> 
> Paul Thackray
> 
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
> +44 7802 243979
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
> 
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 18 10:03:25 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 16:03:25 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <D4433908-8183-44E1-9B06-5A100BFADEE4@aol.com>
References: <D4433908-8183-44E1-9B06-5A100BFADEE4.ref@aol.com>
	<D4433908-8183-44E1-9B06-5A100BFADEE4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1eb7a277-76ba-4fde-a367-43eb5c3b72e1@gmail.com>

I am surprised how DIY has gone out of fashion. Next door, which is 
similar to this house, is to be sold after my lovely neighbour Doreen 
past away aged 92. And it needs everything 'done'. It has no electricity 
after a flood in the cellar, and a quote for a basic re-wire came in at 
?10,000. Most of which labour.

On 18/04/2024 15:55, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> ?True, but if the DIYer doesn?t know his own handiwork is a bodge??
> You know the saying: ?Ignorance is Bliss?.
> There are plenty of dodgy tradesmen around here though, so I?ll keep an open mind.
> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 14:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Very difficult to know if it were the results of bad DIY or a cowboy 'tradesman'? DIYers have to live with the result of their bodges - a cowboy doesn't.
>>
>>> On 18/04/2024 14:49, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>>> I think it safe to say that in the 70?s, Do It Yourself meant more realistically Do It Right. Not so now, it seems, hence tighter regulations. When we bought this house five years ago, it came with a full elecult to knowctrical compliance checklist, listing every light fitting, DSSO, light switch, distribution, etc., each and every one ticked as a pass. It very soon became clear that the previous owner was an incompetent DIY bodger. One of my first tasks was to replace all tungsten bulbs with LED?s. The first brass wall light fitting I touched nearly threw me off the ladder. No earth, and a live wire, stripped back too far had shorted to the metalwork. Not impressed, so checked and upgraded everything as necessary. Countless similar faults found.
>>> And then there was the gas - much of it totally illegal.
>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 13:17, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> ?When I bought this house in 1974 - the days when even a lowly sound assistant could afford to - one of the first plumbing jobs was to sort the leaking stopcock - in a lead pipe - in the cellar. I did try to re-pack the gland round the spindle, but this had obviously been bodged before, as the thread was knackered. And a direct replacement for a 100 year old valve not available. So the obvious way was to chop out the valve, do lead to copper pipe either side, and use a modern valve. I opened up the inside of the lead using a 'bastard' round file. So I could push in the copper tube a few inches. Tinned the copper and tapped it in with loads of flux Then sweated it together adding some low melting point solder. The lead pipe from the street and that stopcock are still here today.
>>>> It's a laugh being told I can't now legally replace, say, a gas hob myself. Given I ripped out all the original iron barrel gas pipes that went to every room in this Victorian house and ran in new in copper for the boiler and gas hob myself. The gas meter has been changed four times - and they check for leaks after doing this, so guess they are happy with my plumbing.
>>
>> --
>> Dave Plowman
>> London, SW
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Thu Apr 18 14:07:52 2024
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 20:07:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <1eb7a277-76ba-4fde-a367-43eb5c3b72e1@gmail.com>
References: <1eb7a277-76ba-4fde-a367-43eb5c3b72e1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7CB33D02-3C56-49FF-83B6-84CEF5F1E7D0@btinternet.com>

I?ve seen quite a number of DIY efforts over the years which, contrary to what we might think, are often over-engineered:- Screws secured into fixings from both above & underneath floors, water pipes & electric cables coiled up & buried- just in case the extra length may be required in the future, 4 times as many rivets than actually required- thus weakening the metal in the area around the joint, bolts tightened then welded - just to be extra safe, vehicle fuel tank sealants added to preserve the insides of the fuel tank which ultimately seem to dissolve and block diesel & petrol fuel filters and fuel injection pumps, painting undersides of vehicles in old engine oil to prevent rust then wondering why the suspension rubbers have all perished!  Adding extra cement into mortar which then dries-out too quickly leading to premature failure etc. ? list goes on. 
The priority items seem to get ignored as non essential tasks have swallowed up any available quota of time & patience before finally rewarding themselves with a well earned chillax with a beer & a BBQ

Weekend Warriors are to blame for causing a considerable amount of headaches which may explain one reason as to why my use of expletives has expanded over the years. 

IMHO cordless drills/tools & TV ads are to blame for encouraging chancers to take to DIY, completely oblivious of knowing much, if anything, about what they are actually doing. 

S

> On 18 Apr 2024, at 18:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I am surprised how DIY has gone out of fashion. Next door, which is similar to this house, is to be sold after my lovely neighbour Doreen past away aged 92. And it needs everything 'done'. It has no electricity after a flood in the cellar, and a quote for a basic re-wire came in at ?10,000. Most of which labour.
> 
>> On 18/04/2024 15:55, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>> ?True, but if the DIYer doesn?t know his own handiwork is a bodge??
>> You know the saying: ?Ignorance is Bliss?.
>> There are plenty of dodgy tradesmen around here though, so I?ll keep an open mind.
>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 14:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Very difficult to know if it were the results of bad DIY or a cowboy 'tradesman'? DIYers have to live with the result of their bodges - a cowboy doesn't.
>>> 
>>>> On 18/04/2024 14:49, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> I think it safe to say that in the 70?s, Do It Yourself meant more realistically Do It Right. Not so now, it seems, hence tighter regulations. When we bought this house five years ago, it came with a full elecult to knowctrical compliance checklist, listing every light fitting, DSSO, light switch, distribution, etc., each and every one ticked as a pass. It very soon became clear that the previous owner was an incompetent DIY bodger. One of my first tasks was to replace all tungsten bulbs with LED?s. The first brass wall light fitting I touched nearly threw me off the ladder. No earth, and a live wire, stripped back too far had shorted to the metalwork. Not impressed, so checked and upgraded everything as necessary. Countless similar faults found.
>>>> And then there was the gas - much of it totally illegal.
>>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 13:17, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> ?When I bought this house in 1974 - the days when even a lowly sound assistant could afford to - one of the first plumbing jobs was to sort the leaking stopcock - in a lead pipe - in the cellar. I did try to re-pack the gland round the spindle, but this had obviously been bodged before, as the thread was knackered. And a direct replacement for a 100 year old valve not available. So the obvious way was to chop out the valve, do lead to copper pipe either side, and use a modern valve. I opened up the inside of the lead using a 'bastard' round file. So I could push in the copper tube a few inches. Tinned the copper and tapped it in with loads of flux Then sweated it together adding some low melting point solder. The lead pipe from the street and that stopcock are still here today.
>>>>> It's a laugh being told I can't now legally replace, say, a gas hob myself. Given I ripped out all the original iron barrel gas pipes that went to every room in this Victorian house and ran in new in copper for the boiler and gas hob myself. The gas meter has been changed four times - and they check for leaks after doing this, so guess they are happy with my plumbing.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Dave Plowman
>>> London, SW
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> --
> Dave Plowman
> London, SW
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Thu Apr 18 15:10:03 2024
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 21:10:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <7CB33D02-3C56-49FF-83B6-84CEF5F1E7D0@btinternet.com>
References: <7CB33D02-3C56-49FF-83B6-84CEF5F1E7D0@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <48D74E6A-D6FC-4BBB-9DC3-150A452E3ECA@zero51.force9.co.uk>

?There is a great satisfaction in doing your own plumbing.  We used to be blessed with the significant advantage of having time to research it, do it properly getting pipe runs straight and neatly parallel and cleaning up joints aesthetically etc (over-engineered? Maybe) whereas a "pro" is up against beating quotes from other firms, and meeting his own quote based on time on the job. In the early seventies there was a significant drive to get modern with central heating and tech-ops became a fund of swapped experience in heating installation and some very handy scheduling  arrangements at Television Centre. None of that gas safe inconvenience either,  just plain common sense and reading the boiler manuals. rtfm.

Peter Fox

On 18 Apr 2024, at 20:08, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?I?ve seen quite a number of DIY efforts over the years which, contrary to what we might think, are often over-engineered:- Screws secured into fixings from both above & underneath floors, water pipes & electric cables coiled up & buried- just in case the extra length may be required in the future, 4 times as many rivets than actually required- thus weakening the metal in the area around the joint, bolts tightened then welded - just to be extra safe, vehicle fuel tank sealants added to preserve the insides of the fuel tank which ultimately seem to dissolve and block diesel & petrol fuel filters and fuel injection pumps, painting undersides of vehicles in old engine oil to prevent rust then wondering why the suspension rubbers have all perished!  Adding extra cement into mortar which then dries-out too quickly leading to premature failure etc. ? list goes on. 
The priority items seem to get ignored as non essential tasks have swallowed up any available quota of time & patience before finally rewarding themselves with a well earned chillax with a beer & a BBQ

Weekend Warriors are to blame for causing a considerable amount of headaches which may explain one reason as to why my use of expletives has expanded over the years. 

IMHO cordless drills/tools & TV ads are to blame for encouraging chancers to take to DIY, completely oblivious of knowing much, if anything, about what they are actually doing.

S

> On 18 Apr 2024, at 18:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I am surprised how DIY has gone out of fashion. Next door, which is similar to this house, is to be sold after my lovely neighbour Doreen past away aged 92. And it needs everything 'done'. It has no electricity after a flood in the cellar, and a quote for a basic re-wire came in at ?10,000. Most of which labour.
> 
>> On 18/04/2024 15:55, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>> ?True, but if the DIYer doesn?t know his own handiwork is a bodge??
>> You know the saying: ?Ignorance is Bliss?.
>> There are plenty of dodgy tradesmen around here though, so I?ll keep an open mind.
>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 14:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Very difficult to know if it were the results of



From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Thu Apr 18 15:31:54 2024
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 21:31:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <48D74E6A-D6FC-4BBB-9DC3-150A452E3ECA@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <48D74E6A-D6FC-4BBB-9DC3-150A452E3ECA@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ECA97573-A575-43DC-B416-E5413EC04F4B@zero51.force9.co.uk>

Which reminded me that a friend of mine, Joe Lester who was the coxswain of  the Yarmouth (IOW) Lifeboat at the time persuaded the engineer ( The master of the twin Caterpillar diesels) to install his central heating and it was a masterpiece of plumbery. Absolute perfection of parallel pipes and bends. Sadly the whole lot was due to be hidden under the floorboards (of course) so I was lucky to see it.  A job well done and no-one gets to see it, but you know. 

Peter Fox

On 18 Apr 2024, at 21:10, Peter Fox <peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk> wrote:

?There is a great satisfaction in doing your own plumbing.  We used to be blessed with the significant advantage of having time to research it, do it properly getting pipe runs straight and neatly parallel and cleaning up joints aesthetically etc (over-engineered? Maybe) whereas a "pro" is up against beating quotes from other firms, and meeting his own quote based on time on the job. In the early seventies there was a significant drive to get modern with central heating and tech-ops became a fund of swapped experience in heating installation and some very handy scheduling  arrangements at Television Centre. None of that gas safe inconvenience either,  just plain common sense and reading the boiler manuals. rtfm.

Peter Fox

On 18 Apr 2024, at 20:08, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?I?ve seen quite a number of DIY efforts over the years which, contrary to what we might think, are often over-engineered:- Screws secured into fixings from both above & underneath floors, water pipes & electric cables coiled up & buried- just in case the extra length may be required in the future, 4 times as many rivets than actually required- thus weakening the metal in the area around the joint, bolts tightened then welded - just to be extra safe, vehicle fuel tank sealants added to preserve the insides of the fuel tank which ultimately seem to dissolve and block diesel & petrol fuel filters and fuel injection pumps, painting undersides of vehicles in old engine oil to prevent rust then wondering why the suspension rubbers have all perished!  Adding extra cement into mortar which then dries-out too quickly leading to premature failure etc. ? list goes on. 
The priority items seem to get ignored as non essential tasks have swallowed up any available quota of time & patience before finally rewarding themselves with a well earned chillax with a beer & a BBQ

Weekend Warriors are to blame for causing a considerable amount of headaches which may explain one reason as to why my use of expletives has expanded over the years. 

IMHO cordless drills/tools & TV ads are to blame for encouraging chancers to take to DIY, completely oblivious of knowing much, if anything, about what they are actually doing.

S

> On 18 Apr 2024, at 18:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I am surprised how DIY has gone out of fashion. Next door, which is similar to this house, is to be sold after my lovely neighbour Doreen past away aged 92. And it needs everything 'done'. It has no electricity after a flood in the cellar, and a quote for a basic re-wire came in at ?10,000. Most of which labour.
> 
>> On 18/04/2024 15:55, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>> ?True, but if the DIYer doesn?t know his own handiwork is a bodge??
>> You know the saying: ?Ignorance is Bliss?.
>> There are plenty of dodgy tradesmen around here though, so I?ll keep an open mind.
>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 14:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Very difficult to know if it were the results of



From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 18 17:58:19 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 23:58:19 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <48D74E6A-D6FC-4BBB-9DC3-150A452E3ECA@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <7CB33D02-3C56-49FF-83B6-84CEF5F1E7D0@btinternet.com>
	<48D74E6A-D6FC-4BBB-9DC3-150A452E3ECA@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <84857732-b75d-4008-8a47-b93a7b15e9e9@gmail.com>

Yup. You could find the answers to most DIY problems round a tech ops 
coffee table in the 70s. And the inspiration to have a go - after 
finding out how.

On 18/04/2024 21:10, Peter Fox wrote:
> ?There is a great satisfaction in doing your own plumbing.  We used to be blessed with the significant advantage of having time to research it, do it properly getting pipe runs straight and neatly parallel and cleaning up joints aesthetically etc (over-engineered? Maybe) whereas a "pro" is up against beating quotes from other firms, and meeting his own quote based on time on the job. In the early seventies there was a significant drive to get modern with central heating and tech-ops became a fund of swapped experience in heating installation and some very handy scheduling  arrangements at Television Centre. None of that gas safe inconvenience either,  just plain common sense and reading the boiler manuals. rtfm.
> 
> Peter Fox
> 
> On 18 Apr 2024, at 20:08, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I?ve seen quite a number of DIY efforts over the years which, contrary to what we might think, are often over-engineered:- Screws secured into fixings from both above & underneath floors, water pipes & electric cables coiled up & buried- just in case the extra length may be required in the future, 4 times as many rivets than actually required- thus weakening the metal in the area around the joint, bolts tightened then welded - just to be extra safe, vehicle fuel tank sealants added to preserve the insides of the fuel tank which ultimately seem to dissolve and block diesel & petrol fuel filters and fuel injection pumps, painting undersides of vehicles in old engine oil to prevent rust then wondering why the suspension rubbers have all perished!  Adding extra cement into mortar which then dries-out too quickly leading to premature failure etc. ? list goes on.
> The priority items seem to get ignored as non essential tasks have swallowed up any available quota of time & patience before finally rewarding themselves with a well earned chillax with a beer & a BBQ
> 
> Weekend Warriors are to blame for causing a considerable amount of headaches which may explain one reason as to why my use of expletives has expanded over the years.
> 
> IMHO cordless drills/tools & TV ads are to blame for encouraging chancers to take to DIY, completely oblivious of knowing much, if anything, about what they are actually doing.
> 
> S
> 
>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 18:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?I am surprised how DIY has gone out of fashion. Next door, which is similar to this house, is to be sold after my lovely neighbour Doreen past away aged 92. And it needs everything 'done'. It has no electricity after a flood in the cellar, and a quote for a basic re-wire came in at ?10,000. Most of which labour.
>>
>>> On 18/04/2024 15:55, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>>> ?True, but if the DIYer doesn?t know his own handiwork is a bodge??
>>> You know the saying: ?Ignorance is Bliss?.
>>> There are plenty of dodgy tradesmen around here though, so I?ll keep an open mind.
>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 14:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?Very difficult to know if it were the results of
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From ted123kent at gmail.com  Fri Apr 19 01:14:57 2024
From: ted123kent at gmail.com (Edward Kent)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 07:14:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <84857732-b75d-4008-8a47-b93a7b15e9e9@gmail.com>
References: <7CB33D02-3C56-49FF-83B6-84CEF5F1E7D0@btinternet.com>
	<48D74E6A-D6FC-4BBB-9DC3-150A452E3ECA@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<84857732-b75d-4008-8a47-b93a7b15e9e9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJqjnLjWHXo7qt7k6PNbu+MA7gkEMMy7q2AHv_KYc-weOmgnSw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
My uncle was a good electrician I think but I was only eleven . He had done
a lot of conduit work. So have rewired a couple of houses and confident to
do so in the 70s. In fact Worked with two of Geoff Hawkes houses and the
second one is still standing . Geoff was a very careful worker but regs
were a lot simpler in those days.
We moved five years ago and needed a lot of work done and had some quotes
from two youngsters through trusted traders. I was impressed by both of
them.  I chose Dan and he was excellent, pointed out things he had
discovered such as live wires in the shower. I knew the previous owner was
a poor DIY person and so was glad to have faults found. And it came to that
point where he said are you staying here long. At 72 I never want to move
again. He said it could really do with a complete rewire. By that time I
trusted him with his workmanship, his throroughness in safety  and testing
and his walk through at the end of the each day. S the house was completely
empty it was worth  doing. I have used him several times since, he now has
his own apprentice.
Recently very disappointed with Octopus  in going to wire up EV socket. In
reality the 20 year old was bereft of innovative solutions and kept phoning
his supervisor. The solution from Octopus was to get an external
contractor. Their people couldn't climb ladders!!
The reason I hadn't used my trusted electrian was he would only fit one
sort of charger and my wife thought it looked like a urinal. I could
imagine the years  ahead as made a comment eventide she saw it.
Part 2 solar panels to come later
Ted

On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, 23:58 Dave Plowman via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Yup. You could find the answers to most DIY problems round a tech ops
> coffee table in the 70s. And the inspiration to have a go - after
> finding out how.
>
> On 18/04/2024 21:10, Peter Fox wrote:
> > ?There is a great satisfaction in doing your own plumbing.  We used to
> be blessed with the significant advantage of having time to research it, do
> it properly getting pipe runs straight and neatly parallel and cleaning up
> joints aesthetically etc (over-engineered? Maybe) whereas a "pro" is up
> against beating quotes from other firms, and meeting his own quote based on
> time on the job. In the early seventies there was a significant drive to
> get modern with central heating and tech-ops became a fund of swapped
> experience in heating installation and some very handy scheduling
> arrangements at Television Centre. None of that gas safe inconvenience
> either,  just plain common sense and reading the boiler manuals. rtfm.
> >
> > Peter Fox
> >
> > On 18 Apr 2024, at 20:08, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?I?ve seen quite a number of DIY efforts over the years which, contrary
> to what we might think, are often over-engineered:- Screws secured into
> fixings from both above & underneath floors, water pipes & electric cables
> coiled up & buried- just in case the extra length may be required in the
> future, 4 times as many rivets than actually required- thus weakening the
> metal in the area around the joint, bolts tightened then welded - just to
> be extra safe, vehicle fuel tank sealants added to preserve the insides of
> the fuel tank which ultimately seem to dissolve and block diesel & petrol
> fuel filters and fuel injection pumps, painting undersides of vehicles in
> old engine oil to prevent rust then wondering why the suspension rubbers
> have all perished!  Adding extra cement into mortar which then dries-out
> too quickly leading to premature failure etc. ? list goes on.
> > The priority items seem to get ignored as non essential tasks have
> swallowed up any available quota of time & patience before finally
> rewarding themselves with a well earned chillax with a beer & a BBQ
> >
> > Weekend Warriors are to blame for causing a considerable amount of
> headaches which may explain one reason as to why my use of expletives has
> expanded over the years.
> >
> > IMHO cordless drills/tools & TV ads are to blame for encouraging
> chancers to take to DIY, completely oblivious of knowing much, if anything,
> about what they are actually doing.
> >
> > S
> >
> >> On 18 Apr 2024, at 18:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> ?I am surprised how DIY has gone out of fashion. Next door, which is
> similar to this house, is to be sold after my lovely neighbour Doreen past
> away aged 92. And it needs everything 'done'. It has no electricity after a
> flood in the cellar, and a quote for a basic re-wire came in at ?10,000.
> Most of which labour.
> >>
> >>> On 18/04/2024 15:55, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> >>> ?True, but if the DIYer doesn?t know his own handiwork is a bodge??
> >>> You know the saying: ?Ignorance is Bliss?.
> >>> There are plenty of dodgy tradesmen around here though, so I?ll keep
> an open mind.
> >>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
> >>>>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 14:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> ?Very difficult to know if it were the results of
> >
>
> --
> Dave Plowman
> London, SW
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From tuckergarth at me.com  Fri Apr 19 05:46:05 2024
From: tuckergarth at me.com (Garth Tucker)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 11:46:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <84857732-b75d-4008-8a47-b93a7b15e9e9@gmail.com>
References: <7CB33D02-3C56-49FF-83B6-84CEF5F1E7D0@btinternet.com>
	<48D74E6A-D6FC-4BBB-9DC3-150A452E3ECA@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<84857732-b75d-4008-8a47-b93a7b15e9e9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0729DC4E-B443-42FC-9579-FF1BDC9341B3@me.com>

When I joined Tech Ops in the early 60s, coming up from rural Buckinghamshire, I was agog to have the opportunity of visiting the NFT, the RSC,  and the newly formed National Theatre, as well as being a Dolly Op on high brow drama productions. But yes, the conversation at meal times did centre on Do It Yourself techniques. Not boring, but . . . Then, buying a house in 1969, I quickly found myself in the centre of these conversations, especially as I was getting round to re-wiring said house. Though I never did become as competent as most of my mates. It was Geoff Feld who designed and installed our built-in wardrobes, still standing strong to this day, and it was John Christie who made our Dining Room table. I did manage to replace a Front Door, and use baking foil as wall paper (it was cheaper).

Garth 

> On 18 Apr 2024, at 23:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Yup. You could find the answers to most DIY problems round a tech ops coffee table in the 70s. And the inspiration to have a go - after finding out how.
> 
> On 18/04/2024 21:10, Peter Fox wrote:
>> ?There is a great satisfaction in doing your own plumbing.  We used to be blessed with the significant advantage of having time to research it, do it properly getting pipe runs straight and neatly parallel and cleaning up joints aesthetically etc (over-engineered? Maybe) whereas a "pro" is up against beating quotes from other firms, and meeting his own quote based on time on the job. In the early seventies there was a significant drive to get modern with central heating and tech-ops became a fund of swapped experience in heating installation and some very handy scheduling  arrangements at Television Centre. None of that gas safe inconvenience either,  just plain common sense and reading the boiler manuals. rtfm.
>> Peter Fox
>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 20:08, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> ?I?ve seen quite a number of DIY efforts over the years which, contrary to what we might think, are often over-engineered:- Screws secured into fixings from both above & underneath floors, water pipes & electric cables coiled up & buried- just in case the extra length may be required in the future, 4 times as many rivets than actually required- thus weakening the metal in the area around the joint, bolts tightened then welded - just to be extra safe, vehicle fuel tank sealants added to preserve the insides of the fuel tank which ultimately seem to dissolve and block diesel & petrol fuel filters and fuel injection pumps, painting undersides of vehicles in old engine oil to prevent rust then wondering why the suspension rubbers have all perished!  Adding extra cement into mortar which then dries-out too quickly leading to premature failure etc. ? list goes on.
>> The priority items seem to get ignored as non essential tasks have swallowed up any available quota of time & patience before finally rewarding themselves with a well earned chillax with a beer & a BBQ
>> Weekend Warriors are to blame for causing a considerable amount of headaches which may explain one reason as to why my use of expletives has expanded over the years.
>> IMHO cordless drills/tools & TV ads are to blame for encouraging chancers to take to DIY, completely oblivious of knowing much, if anything, about what they are actually doing.
>> S
>>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 18:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?I am surprised how DIY has gone out of fashion. Next door, which is similar to this house, is to be sold after my lovely neighbour Doreen past away aged 92. And it needs everything 'done'. It has no electricity after a flood in the cellar, and a quote for a basic re-wire came in at ?10,000. Most of which labour.
>>> 
>>>> On 18/04/2024 15:55, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> ?True, but if the DIYer doesn?t know his own handiwork is a bodge??
>>>> You know the saying: ?Ignorance is Bliss?.
>>>> There are plenty of dodgy tradesmen around here though, so I?ll keep an open mind.
>>>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>>>>>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 14:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?Very difficult to know if it were the results of
> 
> -- 
> Dave Plowman
> London, SW
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From patrick.heigham at gmail.com  Fri Apr 19 06:34:01 2024
From: patrick.heigham at gmail.com (PATRICK HEIGHAM)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 12:34:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <CAJqjnLjWHXo7qt7k6PNbu+MA7gkEMMy7q2AHv_KYc-weOmgnSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7CB33D02-3C56-49FF-83B6-84CEF5F1E7D0@btinternet.com>
	<48D74E6A-D6FC-4BBB-9DC3-150A452E3ECA@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<84857732-b75d-4008-8a47-b93a7b15e9e9@gmail.com>
	<CAJqjnLjWHXo7qt7k6PNbu+MA7gkEMMy7q2AHv_KYc-weOmgnSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <df72970d-0f77-448e-9bcb-7c96282690fc@gmail.com>

Thanks to Nick for starting us on electricity!


I o W Hotel Part 1
In the mid-sixties I was friendly with a family who owned and ran a 
seaside hotel in the IoW.
He showed me his set up, should the mains fail.
At that time, power cuts were not unusual, so he installed a diesel 
generator
in a brick built outhouse.
If the incoming mains failed, a mercury switch, normally held horizontal 
by electromagnet,
would drop into a vertical position allowing the mercury to flow to the 
bottom of the tube,
bridging the contacts there, to start the generator. My memory is hazy, 
but there must
have been some form of changeover breakers to ditch the incoming mains, 
replacing
with the generator output to the hotel distribution board.
When the street supply was back on, the genny was shut down and everything
reset manually.
Occasionally Electricity board engineers would come and look, suck their 
teeth,
and wander off, leaving him to it!

Pat H

On 19/04/2024 07:14, Edward Kent via Tech1 wrote:

> Hi all,
> My uncle was a good electrician I think but I was only eleven . He had 
> done a lot of conduit work. So have rewired a couple of houses and 
> confident to do so in the 70s. In fact Worked with two of Geoff Hawkes 
> houses and the second one is still standing . Geoff was a very careful 
> worker but regs were a lot simpler in those days.
> We moved five years ago and needed a lot of work done and had some 
> quotes from two youngsters through trusted traders. I was impressed by 
> both of them.? I chose Dan and he was excellent, pointed out things he 
> had discovered such as live wires in the shower. I knew the previous 
> owner was a poor DIY person and so was glad to have faults found. And 
> it came to that point where he said are you staying here long. At 72 I 
> never want to move again. He said it could really do with a complete 
> rewire. By that time I trusted him with his workmanship, his 
> throroughness in safety? and testing and his walk through at the end 
> of the each day. S the house was completely empty it was worth? doing. 
> I have used him several times since, he now has his own apprentice.
> Recently very disappointed with Octopus? in going to wire up EV 
> socket. In reality the 20 year old was bereft of innovative solutions 
> and kept phoning his supervisor. The solution from Octopus was to get 
> an external contractor. Their people couldn't climb ladders!!
> The reason I hadn't used my trusted electrian was he would only fit 
> one sort of charger and my wife thought it looked like a urinal. I 
> could imagine the years? ahead as made a comment eventide she saw it.
> Part 2 solar panels to come later
> Ted
>
>


From barry-wilkinson at sky.com  Fri Apr 19 07:07:40 2024
From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:07:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <df72970d-0f77-448e-9bcb-7c96282690fc@gmail.com>
References: <df72970d-0f77-448e-9bcb-7c96282690fc@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <84085F0B-FAE1-4135-9BE7-06D2A80EF90E@sky.com>

I have 24 solar panels( around 8kw nominal production)  plus two batteries totalling 16 kwhours . It is not yet set up for power cuts but this summer we are going to get the backup set up properly installed . It is quite complicated for us as the panels and battery are installed slightly remotely from our house, so the final setup may include two underground cables , one for normal use and one for backup and a changeover switch at the house end. We will need an earth spike at the garage end as well. Apart from digging trenches we will be leaving it in the hands of professional solar and electrical contractors , both who live in the village and are very good. The Octopus tariff we are on allows overnight supply at 7.5 p per kWhour ( we need this for our storage heaters and battery charging) but we get 15p per kWhour return for export to the grid. So we can charge up the batteries on the cheaper rate and make a small profit on the export. The total export allowed by the mains supplier is 5 kw. If we add battery and solar generation , on a sunny day that is possible. 
The backup supply will be limited to 3.5 kw which is more than adequate for lighting a a bit of light cooking. The tariff is called Octopus Intelligent Go for electric car users . We have an electric car too so from now on until September we are on free electricity with maybe a negative bill once it gets warm enough to turn off the storage heaters!
Note :the solar panels on both sides of the garage roof with four more about to be added facing east/ west which works quite well even up north.
The picture of the batteries and inverter is just before final tidying up!
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Sent from my iPad

> On 19 Apr 2024, at 12:34, PATRICK HEIGHAM via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Thanks to Nick for starting us on electricity!
> 
> 
> I o W Hotel Part 1
> In the mid-sixties I was friendly with a family who owned and ran a seaside hotel in the IoW.
> He showed me his set up, should the mains fail.
> At that time, power cuts were not unusual, so he installed a diesel generator
> in a brick built outhouse.
> If the incoming mains failed, a mercury switch, normally held horizontal by electromagnet,
> would drop into a vertical position allowing the mercury to flow to the bottom of the tube,
> bridging the contacts there, to start the generator. My memory is hazy, but there must
> have been some form of changeover breakers to ditch the incoming mains, replacing
> with the generator output to the hotel distribution board.
> When the street supply was back on, the genny was shut down and everything
> reset manually.
> Occasionally Electricity board engineers would come and look, suck their teeth,
> and wander off, leaving him to it!
> 
> Pat H
> 
>> On 19/04/2024 07:14, Edward Kent via Tech1 wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> My uncle was a good electrician I think but I was only eleven . He had done a lot of conduit work. So have rewired a couple of houses and confident to do so in the 70s. In fact Worked with two of Geoff Hawkes houses and the second one is still standing . Geoff was a very careful worker but regs were a lot simpler in those days.
>> We moved five years ago and needed a lot of work done and had some quotes from two youngsters through trusted traders. I was impressed by both of them.  I chose Dan and he was excellent, pointed out things he had discovered such as live wires in the shower. I knew the previous owner was a poor DIY person and so was glad to have faults found. And it came to that point where he said are you staying here long. At 72 I never want to move again. He said it could really do with a complete rewire. By that time I trusted him with his workmanship, his throroughness in safety  and testing and his walk through at the end of the each day. S the house was completely empty it was worth  doing. I have used him several times since, he now has his own apprentice.
>> Recently very disappointed with Octopus  in going to wire up EV socket. In reality the 20 year old was bereft of innovative solutions and kept phoning his supervisor. The solution from Octopus was to get an external contractor. Their people couldn't climb ladders!!
>> The reason I hadn't used my trusted electrian was he would only fit one sort of charger and my wife thought it looked like a urinal. I could imagine the years  ahead as made a comment eventide she saw it.
>> Part 2 solar panels to come later
>> Ted
>> 
>> 
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From patrick.heigham at gmail.com  Fri Apr 19 07:40:21 2024
From: patrick.heigham at gmail.com (PATRICK HEIGHAM)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 13:40:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <ECA97573-A575-43DC-B416-E5413EC04F4B@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <48D74E6A-D6FC-4BBB-9DC3-150A452E3ECA@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<ECA97573-A575-43DC-B416-E5413EC04F4B@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ef31ec9b-39f4-46ac-9ce2-0d1dd3e5fc8b@gmail.com>

Interested that there are friends of the RNLI among us.
As a former resident of the I o W, I was waiting one day for the 
Yarmouth-Lymington car ferry and got to chat with a crew member working 
on the Yarmouth lifeboat.
I remarked on thelittle dock by the quayside ? previously the boat was 
moored in the middle of the harbour. He told me that it meant, with 
mains power available, the engines could be kept warmed up, and run at 
full speed from the word go, saving valuable time to answer the shout.

I am pleased to support the RNLI, with raffle tickets and purchases from 
the shop ? Christmas hampers were exceptionally good, and as my father 
liked 'messing about in boats' (He built a small cabin cruiser in his 
garage) and I worked with cameramen in the film industry, several of 
whom were keen sailors and owned boats.

My uncle served during the war in the Merchant Marine, and when he 
passed on, the Yarmouth (IoW) lifeboat took his widow out to scatter his 
ashes at sea. That was a fine gesture.

Pat H

On 18/04/2024 21:31, Peter Fox via Tech1 wrote:
> Which reminded me that a friend of mine, Joe Lester who was the coxswain of  the Yarmouth (IOW) Lifeboat at the time persuaded the engineer ( The master of the twin Caterpillar diesels) to install his central heating and it was a masterpiece of plumbery. Absolute perfection of parallel pipes and bends. Sadly the whole lot was due to be hidden under the floorboards (of course) so I was lucky to see it.  A job well done and no-one gets to see it, but you know.
>
> Peter Fox
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From ware.nick at aol.com  Fri Apr 19 08:37:22 2024
From: ware.nick at aol.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 14:37:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <94ac4aca-68ab-4a61-95aa-83c439eba5dc@gmail.com>
References: <94ac4aca-68ab-4a61-95aa-83c439eba5dc@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0B2832A5-D0F8-4860-A064-F638CDAFDC79@aol.com>

Just one example of what was under the loft insulation. That?s from the upstairs lighting ring, which wasn?t actually a ring, in that it returned to the downstairs lighting circuit breaker, not the upstairs one! I discovered that when I put the wire cutters through it and it went bang even though the upstairs breaker was off!
Bad DIY, not dodgy tradesman, I suspect.
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. 
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

> On 18 Apr 2024, at 14:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Very difficult to know if it were the results of bad DIY or a cowboy 'tradesman'? DIYers have to live with the result of their bodges - a cowboy doesn't.
> 
>> On 18/04/2024 14:49, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>> I think it safe to say that in the 70?s, Do It Yourself meant more realistically Do It Right. Not so now, it seems, hence tighter regulations. When we bought this house five years ago, it came with a full electrical compliance checklist, listing every light fitting, DSSO, light switch, distribution, etc., each and every one ticked as a pass. It very soon became clear that the previous owner was an incompetent DIY bodger. 
[etc.]

From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Apr 19 08:50:22 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 14:50:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <0B2832A5-D0F8-4860-A064-F638CDAFDC79@aol.com>
References: <0B2832A5-D0F8-4860-A064-F638CDAFDC79@aol.com>
Message-ID: <EB5522F2-6E71-457D-8C14-C59DED74C291@me.com>

One of my better purchases was a no-contact voltage detector.  I just waft it close to an electrical cable or connection and if it detects mains on it, it the tip lights up red. I am meticulous about turn g off breakers before doing any work, but it?s never a bad thing to check that the power really has gone off.

I bought it for use in my previous house which had some rather peculiar wiring.  My present house is a lot better in that respect, but a previous owner did some rather dodgy electrical changes in the kitchen and family bathroom.  Fortunately both of those have now been properly rewired when other work was done to those rooms.

Alan



> On 19 Apr 2024, at 14:38, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Just one example of what was under the loft insulation. That?s from the upstairs lighting ring, which wasn?t actually a ring, in that it returned to the downstairs lighting circuit breaker, not the upstairs one! I discovered that when I put the wire cutters through it and it went bang even though the upstairs breaker was off!
> Bad DIY, not dodgy tradesman, I suspect.
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> .
> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 14:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Very difficult to know if it were the results of bad DIY or a cowboy 'tradesman'? DIYers have to live with the result of their bodges - a cowboy doesn't.
>> 
>>>> On 18/04/2024 14:49, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>>> I think it safe to say that in the 70?s, Do It Yourself meant more realistically Do It Right. Not so now, it seems, hence tighter regulations. When we bought this house five years ago, it came with a full electrical compliance checklist, listing every light fitting, DSSO, light switch, distribution, etc., each and every one ticked as a pass. It very soon became clear that the previous owner was an incompetent DIY bodger.
> [etc.]--
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 19 08:57:23 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 14:57:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
In-Reply-To: <0B2832A5-D0F8-4860-A064-F638CDAFDC79@aol.com>
References: <94ac4aca-68ab-4a61-95aa-83c439eba5dc@gmail.com>
	<0B2832A5-D0F8-4860-A064-F638CDAFDC79@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4c93d22e-23fd-46a7-a292-7423a9197b5d@gmail.com>

Nick, lighting circuits are usually a radial, not ring. Because they 
have a more defined load than a 13 amp socket ring.

Bad idea to assume lighting wiring is on a particular circuit, unless 
you know the installation intimately. Things like stair lighting is a 
good example with two way or more switching.

Also, if the have a CU with an RCD, cutting the cable so you short earth 
and neutral will trip the RCD, even with the MCB off.

On 19/04/2024 14:37, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> Just one example of what was under the loft insulation. That?s from the upstairs lighting ring, which wasn?t actually a ring, in that it returned to the downstairs lighting circuit breaker, not the upstairs one! I discovered that when I put the wire cutters through it and it went bang even though the upstairs breaker was off!
> Bad DIY, not dodgy tradesman, I suspect.
> 
> 
> .
> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 18 Apr 2024, at 14:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Very difficult to know if it were the results of bad DIY or a cowboy 'tradesman'? DIYers have to live with the result of their bodges - a cowboy doesn't.
>>
>>> On 18/04/2024 14:49, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>>> I think it safe to say that in the 70?s, Do It Yourself meant more realistically Do It Right. Not so now, it seems, hence tighter regulations. When we bought this house five years ago, it came with a full electrical compliance checklist, listing every light fitting, DSSO, light switch, distribution, etc., each and every one ticked as a pass. It very soon became clear that the previous owner was an incompetent DIY bodger.
> [etc.]
> 
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Apr 19 10:35:42 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 16:35:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Whoops
Message-ID: <CBE41238-6269-4480-BD5F-FFABBAED1738@me.com>

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From patrick.heigham at gmail.com  Fri Apr 19 11:45:40 2024
From: patrick.heigham at gmail.com (PATRICK HEIGHAM)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 17:45:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Whoops
In-Reply-To: <CBE41238-6269-4480-BD5F-FFABBAED1738@me.com>
References: <CBE41238-6269-4480-BD5F-FFABBAED1738@me.com>
Message-ID: <770baf92-4ba9-43bd-ba59-a6b547600cc5@gmail.com>

Whoops indeed!

I have a couple of tales...

Shooting in the Royal Ballet school? which had just installed a new 
dance floor,
the DoP parked a lamp - don't think it was a 10K, maybe a blonde, right 
under
a sensor. It did its job and the sprinklers opened up and flooded the 
brand new floor.
Sound crew did a swift exit, leaving the perpetrators to argue with the 
production
company and the Ballet school.

Second story..
"On a Clear Day" - Streisand - shooting at the Brighton Pavilion
One scene, in the basement kitchens led to an amusing interruption.
The Director of Photography (DoP) used a lot of light, creating quite 
high temperatures.
What was not known, was that fire sensors communicated directly, and 
silently to the Fire Station.
Suddenly there were a phalanx of booted and helmeted firemen charging in 
wanting to know where the fire was!

Pat H
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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Fri Apr 19 12:08:50 2024
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 18:08:50 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Just another day.
Message-ID: <424761E9-A53D-45D2-BB5F-C43EE9C71C1A@btinternet.com>

?I can?t recall the exact figure but I think there was around 240 RNLI Lifeboat Stations in the UK. 
In addition, there are also around 80 Independent lifeboat stations which are privately run/charities.
That equates to over one quarter of UK lifeboat stations are NOT part of the RNLI. 

Often these Independent stations are at a disadvantage with their fundraising because most people incorrectly assume the RNLI is the only main lifeboat charity and stand to gain more publicity & funding as a result of the efforts & rescue work undertaken by the smaller independent lifeboat organisations.  

?.the last I heard was the RNLI were awash with money!

S

> On 19 Apr 2024, at 13:40, PATRICK HEIGHAM <patrick.heigham at gmail.com> wrote:
> ?
> Interested that there are friends of the RNLI among us.
> As a former resident of the I o W, I was waiting one day for the Yarmouth-Lymington car ferry and got to chat with a crew member working on the Yarmouth lifeboat.
> I remarked on the  little dock by the quayside ? previously the boat was moored in the middle of the harbour. He told me that it meant, with mains power available, the engines could be kept warmed up, and run at full speed from the word go, saving valuable time to answer the shout.
> 
> I am pleased to support the RNLI, with raffle tickets and purchases from the shop ? Christmas hampers were exceptionally good, and as my father liked 'messing about in boats' (He built a small cabin cruiser in his garage) and I worked with cameramen in the film industry, several of whom were keen sailors and owned boats.
> 
> My uncle served during the war in the Merchant Marine, and when he passed on, the Yarmouth (IoW) lifeboat took his widow out to scatter his ashes at sea. That was a fine gesture.
> 
> Pat H
> 
> On 18/04/2024 21:31, Peter Fox via Tech1 wrote:
>> Which reminded me that a friend of mine, Joe Lester who was the coxswain of  the Yarmouth (IOW) Lifeboat at the time persuaded the engineer ( The master of the twin Caterpillar diesels) to install his central heating and it was a masterpiece of plumbery. Absolute perfection of parallel pipes and bends. Sadly the whole lot was due to be hidden under the floorboards (of course) so I was lucky to see it.  A job well done and no-one gets to see it, but you know. 
>> 
>> Peter Fox
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From hughsnape at talktalk.net  Fri Apr 19 12:12:46 2024
From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 18:12:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Whoops
In-Reply-To: <770baf92-4ba9-43bd-ba59-a6b547600cc5@gmail.com>
References: <770baf92-4ba9-43bd-ba59-a6b547600cc5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42E2CD3C-D8E8-48CA-9F0F-D52A3252EC87@talktalk.net>

Thank goodness for LEDs . . .

> On 19 Apr 2024, at 17:46, PATRICK HEIGHAM via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Whoops indeed!
> 
> I have a couple of tales...
> 
> Shooting in the Royal Ballet school  which had just installed a new dance floor,
> the DoP parked a lamp - don't think it was a 10K, maybe a blonde, right under
> a sensor. It did its job and the sprinklers opened up and flooded the brand new floor.
> Sound crew did a swift exit, leaving the perpetrators to argue with the production
> company and the Ballet school.
> 
> Second story..
> "On a Clear Day" - Streisand - shooting at the Brighton Pavilion
> One scene, in the basement kitchens led to an amusing interruption.
> The Director of Photography (DoP) used a lot of light, creating quite high temperatures.
> What was not known, was that fire sensors communicated directly, and silently to the Fire Station.
> Suddenly there were a phalanx of booted and helmeted firemen charging in wanting to know where the fire was!
> 
> Pat H
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Apr 19 12:33:41 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 18:33:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Whoops
In-Reply-To: <42E2CD3C-D8E8-48CA-9F0F-D52A3252EC87@talktalk.net>
References: <42E2CD3C-D8E8-48CA-9F0F-D52A3252EC87@talktalk.net>
Message-ID: <051B3291-16CA-4A09-B4C2-7AA8DCED11E8@me.com>

I didn?t see any mention of a date, but this appears to have been a relatively recent incident. I assume that a deliberate decision was made not to use LEDs.

Alan

> On 19 Apr 2024, at 18:13, Hugh Snape <hughsnape at talktalk.net> wrote:
> Thank goodness for LEDs . . .


From ware.nick at aol.com  Fri Apr 19 12:56:49 2024
From: ware.nick at aol.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 18:56:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Whoops
References: <61EF59CD-2956-4DC3-98EC-541CE0A522DC.ref@aol.com>
Message-ID: <61EF59CD-2956-4DC3-98EC-541CE0A522DC@aol.com>

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From ware.nick at aol.com  Fri Apr 19 12:57:13 2024
From: ware.nick at aol.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 18:57:13 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Whoops
References: <74DDD118-FDB4-482F-B979-8A8AC50F2E38.ref@aol.com>
Message-ID: <74DDD118-FDB4-482F-B979-8A8AC50F2E38@aol.com>

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From ted123kent at gmail.com  Fri Apr 19 14:12:15 2024
From: ted123kent at gmail.com (Edward Kent)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 20:12:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Using a mobile in hospital and its pitfalls
Message-ID: <CAJqjnLjr24+Fyroo9UqNEhNsccmo4cCLf7iJKANkPMBmywOEdw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I had the misforunate to slipover on Monday and fracture a hip. Operated on
Wednesday and still high from anaesthetics.
But it is the phone that is causing me trouble. Quite often when phoning my
wife I get interrupted so I put the phone down and check what they want.
It was only what did I want for breakfast. Order in and what did my wife
say 'that's not a healthy breakfast." So lesson one switch phone off.
Second time tonight I phoned a friend and got his answer machine. I found
myself talking to the answer machine as if it minded being interrupted.
Ted Kent
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From ware.nick at aol.com  Fri Apr 19 16:29:42 2024
From: ware.nick at aol.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 22:29:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Whoops
References: <64CF4173-4D6B-41E1-B9F7-7E1C0D82A166.ref@aol.com>
Message-ID: <64CF4173-4D6B-41E1-B9F7-7E1C0D82A166@aol.com>

?Not the Royal Ballet, Pat, but well remembered!
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

> On 19 Apr 2024, at 17:46, PATRICK HEIGHAM via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?
> Whoops indeed!
> 
> I have a couple of tales...
> 
> Shooting in the Royal Ballet school  which had just installed a new dance floor,
> the DoP parked a lamp - don't think it was a 10K, maybe a blonde, right under
> a sensor. It did its job and the sprinklers opened up and flooded the brand new floor.
> Sound crew did a swift exit, leaving the perpetrators to argue with the production
> company and the Ballet school.
> 
> Second story..
> "On a Clear Day" - Streisand - shooting at the Brighton Pavilion
> One scene, in the basement kitchens led to an amusing interruption.
> The Director of Photography (DoP) used a lot of light, creating quite high temperatures.
> What was not known, was that fire sensors communicated directly, and silently to the Fire Station.
> Suddenly there were a phalanx of booted and helmeted firemen charging in wanting to know where the fire was!
> 
> Pat H
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From mibridge at mac.com  Fri Apr 19 16:37:36 2024
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 22:37:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Whoops
In-Reply-To: <42E2CD3C-D8E8-48CA-9F0F-D52A3252EC87@talktalk.net>
References: <770baf92-4ba9-43bd-ba59-a6b547600cc5@gmail.com>
	<42E2CD3C-D8E8-48CA-9F0F-D52A3252EC87@talktalk.net>
Message-ID: <80108936-4873-4AB8-A800-589ACF43EDEE@mac.com>

The Bristol OB Unit went to Slimbridge in autumn many years ago, particularly to coincide with the return of the Bewick swans from Siberia. Having covered a lot of the other wildlife over a couple of days whilst awaiting the Bewicks, we got word that they were on their way and set up to do an interview with Sir Peter Scott in his studio, which looked out onto the lake where the swans would be arriving in the back of shot. Early days of colour, if I remember rightly, and although there were huge plate glass windows facing the lake it was still necessary to reinforce the incoming daylight, so our lighting EM, jolly Julius Jack Belasco placed tripods on either side of the enormous window, facing into the studio, but very close to the glass. We were just about ready for Sir Peter when there was a loud bang from behind one of the window lamps, with a crack in the glass from top to bottom, clearly visible, but luckily confined to an area close to the side of the window. Great panic ensued as it was an absolute rule that no-one could go on the water side of the glass until after the last of the Bewicks had left in the spring, so Sir Peter was likely to be unimpressed, to say the least, at having a damaged pane in his pride and joy until glass fitters could get out there after a delay of some months! 

The stage manager was despatched to intercept Sir Peter and delay him under some pretext or other, while the lamps were repositioned and a curtain drawn across the offending crack. The interview eventually took place with Sir Peter none the wiser. As soon as we?d finished recording, the whole crew beat a hasty retreat so that Sir Peter could blow his top in relative privacy as a crestfallen JJB and the producer owned up to what had happened. I have no recollection of hearing anything about that encounter, nor about the bill for new glass to be fitted in what amounted to a significant shop window.

Mike G


> On 19 Apr 2024, at 18:12, Hugh Snape via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Thank goodness for LEDs . . .
> 
>> On 19 Apr 2024, at 17:46, PATRICK HEIGHAM via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> Whoops indeed!
>> 
>> I have a couple of tales...
>> 
>> Shooting in the Royal Ballet school  which had just installed a new dance floor,
>> the DoP parked a lamp - don't think it was a 10K, maybe a blonde, right under
>> a sensor. It did its job and the sprinklers opened up and flooded the brand new floor.
>> Sound crew did a swift exit, leaving the perpetrators to argue with the production
>> company and the Ballet school.
>> 
>> Second story..
>> "On a Clear Day" - Streisand - shooting at the Brighton Pavilion
>> One scene, in the basement kitchens led to an amusing interruption.
>> The Director of Photography (DoP) used a lot of light, creating quite high temperatures. 
>> What was not known, was that fire sensors communicated directly, and silently to the Fire Station. 
>> Suddenly there were a phalanx of booted and helmeted firemen charging in wanting to know where the fire was!
>> 
>> Pat H
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Fri Apr 19 17:30:52 2024
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2024 23:30:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Whoops
Message-ID: <03728001-DF15-495E-B872-2EA928BB08EA@zero51.force9.co.uk>

?There was some unscheduled excitement on a Paul Temple we were doing in Television centre. Johnny Summers placed a Strand 2k on a well cranked up stand in the doorway to Make-Up/Wardrobe. It was manned so it could be cleared quickly but everyone forgot the fusible link that held the roller shutter up. 
So, not only was the shutter released, although it didnt go far until the lamp stopped it, but the make up and costume sprinklers were triggered much to the surprise of the occupants.  Francis Matthews, playing the eponymous PT reported later that he was quietly reading a newspaper when it suddenly disintegrated into a soggy mess in front of his very eyes. 
I don't recall what happened after that. Probably an extra long teabreak.


Peter Fox

On 19 Apr 2024, at 22:38, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?The Bristol OB Unit went to Slimbridge in autumn many years ago, particularly to coincide with the return of the Bewick swans from Siberia. Having covered a lot of the other wildlife over a couple of days whilst awaiting the Bewicks, we got word that they were on their way and set up to do an interview with Sir Peter Scott in his studio, which looked out onto the lake where the swans would be arriving in the back of shot. Early days of colour, if I remember rightly, and although there were huge plate glass windows facing the lake it was still necessary to reinforce the incoming daylight, so our lighting EM, jolly Julius Jack Belasco placed tripods on either side of the enormous window, facing into the studio, but very close to the glass. We were just about ready for Sir Peter when there was a loud bang from behind one of the window lamps, with a crack in the glass from top to bottom, clearly visible, but luckily confined to an area close to the side of the window. Great panic ensued as it was an absolute rule that no-one could go on the water side of the glass until after the last of the Bewicks had left in the spring, so Sir Peter was likely to be unimpressed, to say the least, at having a damaged pane in his pride and joy until glass fitters could get out there after a delay of some months! 

The stage manager was despatched to intercept Sir Peter and delay him under some pretext or other, while the lamps were repositioned and a curtain drawn across the offending crack. The interview eventually took place with Sir Peter none the wiser. As soon as we?d finished recording, the whole crew beat a hasty retreat so that Sir Peter could blow his top in relative privacy as a crestfallen JJB and the producer owned up to what had happened. I have no recollection of hearing anything about that encounter, nor about the bill for new glass to be fitted in what amounted to a significant shop window

From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 20 07:41:19 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 13:41:19 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
Message-ID: <5aa7921e-7dee-4cf0-9479-9dcbf85f086f@gmail.com>

Not been able to find an answer by Googling.

When I lose my copper landline, will I still be able to use my multiple 
DECT phones (5 base stations)? All the answers seem to be for one 
domestic phone.

My BT bill - copper to the cabinet (which works just fine for me) for 
broadband, landline phones and BT TV and BT also my mobile has got 
stupidly expensive - worse since they've stopped the line saver deal. So 
I'd guess time to change. But all the deals seem to involve fibre to the 
house.


From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Sat Apr 20 08:02:36 2024
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 14:02:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <5aa7921e-7dee-4cf0-9479-9dcbf85f086f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <vl16vbsmj554itahdgionou0.1713618156943@pgtmedia.co.uk>

To answer the first question, when you go to ip phones (already have with verginmedia) you get a socket from the back of your router which apeares to behave like your old copper master socket. If you have a set of sockets currently wired round different rooms, just remove the incoming phone line and use a plug to plug lead to one socket (With splitter if you need to plug a phone in as well) All sockets should be live and work as before.

Wait until mid or late May before looking for new deals. Best deals disappear after a price rise,? but re apear after a couple of months.
Best deals are usually on comparison sites not direct, even with your current provider. For sim only this is often double the price for the same network and provider........



Paul Thackray

?

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

+44 7802 243979

Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk

?

Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/



? Original Message ?


From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 20 April 2024 13:42
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Reply to: plowmandave44 at gmail.com
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre


Not been able to find an answer by Googling.

When I lose my copper landline, will I still be able to use my multiple
DECT phones (5 base stations)? All the answers seem to be for one
domestic phone.

My BT bill - copper to the cabinet (which works just fine for me) for
broadband, landline phones and BT TV and BT also my mobile has got
stupidly expensive - worse since they've stopped the line saver deal. So
I'd guess time to change. But all the deals seem to involve fibre to the
house.

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 20 08:10:20 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 14:10:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <vl16vbsmj554itahdgionou0.1713618156943@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <vl16vbsmj554itahdgionou0.1713618156943@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <9478c182-ea1d-4469-8aaf-8f03d92280c8@gmail.com>

Thanks Paul. Couldn't see a reason why multiple base stations wouldn't 
work - unlike old phones that got their ringing volts from the line. And 
thanks for the advice - another month or so won't matter.

On 20/04/2024 14:02, Paul Thackray via Tech1 wrote:
> To answer the first question, when you go to ip phones (already have with verginmedia) you get a socket from the back of your router which apeares to behave like your old copper master socket. If you have a set of sockets currently wired round different rooms, just remove the incoming phone line and use a plug to plug lead to one socket (With splitter if you need to plug a phone in as well) All sockets should be live and work as before.
>
> Wait until mid or late May before looking for new deals. Best deals disappear after a price rise,? but re apear after a couple of months.
> Best deals are usually on comparison sites not direct, even with your current provider. For sim only this is often double the price for the same network and provider........
>
>
>
> Paul Thackray
>
>   
>
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>
> +44 7802 243979
>
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>
>   
>
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>
> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>
>
>
>  ? Original Message
>
>
> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Sent: 20 April 2024 13:42
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Reply to: plowmandave44 at gmail.com
> Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
>
>
> Not been able to find an answer by Googling.
>
> When I lose my copper landline, will I still be able to use my multiple
> DECT phones (5 base stations)? All the answers seem to be for one
> domestic phone.
>
> My BT bill - copper to the cabinet (which works just fine for me) for
> broadband, landline phones and BT TV and BT also my mobile has got
> stupidly expensive - worse since they've stopped the line saver deal. So
> I'd guess time to change. But all the deals seem to involve fibre to the
> house.
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW



From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Apr 20 08:15:31 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 14:15:31 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <5aa7921e-7dee-4cf0-9479-9dcbf85f086f@gmail.com>
References: <5aa7921e-7dee-4cf0-9479-9dcbf85f086f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <148DD727-2E1B-4E21-AC82-D1FEFA7ACBDB@me.com>

I can?t answer the DECT query as I?ve opted to not have a landline any more.  We had the advantage of moving here about ten years ago, just at the time when the cellphone signal became strong and reliable indoors.  We got people used to calling us only on mobiles, so nobody had got used to using our landline.

We get our internet via Zen.  It?s supposed to be a fibre to the house arrangement, but it?s actually copper to the house and fibre to a cabinet in the village.  At some point it will become fibre all the  way.  The router they provide works with either a phone line ( copper ) or ethernet ( fibre ). We pay a total of exactly ?30 per month inc service, rental and VAT.  You can probably get cheaper deals, but when we changed from BT to Zen, it changed from being a flaky service with a so-so WiFi router to becoming a rock solid service with a router which works throughout the whole house and much of the garden.

For cellphones we use GiffGaff on a SIM only arrangement.  We buy a new phone every 5-6 years and just pay for the service.  You can opt for varying amounts of data per month. Texts and most calls are free.  I usually opt for the ?6 per month plan as I don?t usually need much mobile data these days, but when we travel to Europe, I switch to a plan with more data for the time we?re abroad and then revert back to the ?6 when we return. 

Alan

> On 20 Apr 2024, at 13:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Not been able to find an answer by Googling.
> 
> When I lose my copper landline, will I still be able to use my multiple DECT phones (5 base stations)? All the answers seem to be for one domestic phone.
> 
> My BT bill - copper to the cabinet (which works just fine for me) for broadband, landline phones and BT TV and BT also my mobile has got stupidly expensive - worse since they've stopped the line saver deal. So I'd guess time to change. But all the deals seem to involve fibre to the house.
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From david.jasma at sky.com  Sat Apr 20 08:32:41 2024
From: david.jasma at sky.com (Dave Buckley)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 14:32:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <vl16vbsmj554itahdgionou0.1713618156943@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <vl16vbsmj554itahdgionou0.1713618156943@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5b242e3a-da7c-437e-ae66-ea442e2382d5@sky.com>

I put this question to member of another email group I'm on, who turned 
out to be working on the changeover for BT.

I have a three DECT phone system  and as I understand it they will 
continue to work after changeover so long as....

you have a digital to analogue converter between your house phones and 
the router - for example

https://store.ee.co.uk/products/bt-and-ee-digital-voice-adapter-100121-GN1T.html

The only problem is that these convertors are a mains powered so you 
will also need an uninterrupted power supply.

Up here in SW Scotland we haven't changed over yet, but when we do, I 
will be buying two UIPS, one for the router, and the other for the DECT 
system and probably another for the two wall mounted handsets which are 
on the same circuit.

I did have a some circuits he sent me but cannot find them at the moment.

Dave Buckley


From hughsnape at talktalk.net  Sat Apr 20 08:37:03 2024
From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 14:37:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <9478c182-ea1d-4469-8aaf-8f03d92280c8@gmail.com>
References: <9478c182-ea1d-4469-8aaf-8f03d92280c8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1D8D11A7-A380-447A-859E-A2BF8FBCEFB3@talktalk.net>

Irritating how much the inclusion of a ?landline? adds to the cost of many of the FFTP deals though. Virgin isn?t available in this corner of S Devon unfortunately so can?t get a quote from them . . .

> On 20 Apr 2024, at 14:10, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Thanks Paul. Couldn't see a reason why multiple base stations wouldn't work - unlike old phones that got their ringing volts from the line. And thanks for the advice - another month or so won't matter.
> 
>> On 20/04/2024 14:02, Paul Thackray via Tech1 wrote:
>> To answer the first question, when you go to ip phones (already have with verginmedia) you get a socket from the back of your router which apeares to behave like your old copper master socket. If you have a set of sockets currently wired round different rooms, just remove the incoming phone line and use a plug to plug lead to one socket (With splitter if you need to plug a phone in as well) All sockets should be live and work as before.
>> 
>> Wait until mid or late May before looking for new deals. Best deals disappear after a price rise,  but re apear after a couple of months.
>> Best deals are usually on comparison sites not direct, even with your current provider. For sim only this is often double the price for the same network and provider........
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Paul Thackray
>> 
>>  
>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>> 
>> +44 7802 243979
>> 
>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>> 
>>  
>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>> 
>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>> 
>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   Original Message
>> 
>> 
>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Sent: 20 April 2024 13:42
>> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Reply to: plowmandave44 at gmail.com
>> Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
>> 
>> 
>> Not been able to find an answer by Googling.
>> 
>> When I lose my copper landline, will I still be able to use my multiple
>> DECT phones (5 base stations)? All the answers seem to be for one
>> domestic phone.
>> 
>> My BT bill - copper to the cabinet (which works just fine for me) for
>> broadband, landline phones and BT TV and BT also my mobile has got
>> stupidly expensive - worse since they've stopped the line saver deal. So
>> I'd guess time to change. But all the deals seem to involve fibre to the
>> house.
>> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> --
> Dave Plowman
> London, SW
> 
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From nickrodger at mac.com  Sat Apr 20 08:54:43 2024
From: nickrodger at mac.com (Nick Rodger)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 14:54:43 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <vl16vbsmj554itahdgionou0.1713618156943@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <vl16vbsmj554itahdgionou0.1713618156943@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3FE1D272-E853-4BFF-9893-032B6F01459C@mac.com>

We have BT full fibre. 

150 mbs, seems pretty good. 

We have six cordless Panasonic handsets, a four handset original set, with which I paired a second two handset unit. 
The original four handset master base station is plugged into the sole telephone socket on the back of the full fibre router. 
Via a 10m extension for positioning convenience. 
The other five charging units are simply plugged into the mains. 
To my astonishment it works perfectly. 
Better intelligibility (is that the word you sound chaps use) than the previous copper. 

Nick. 

Nick Rodger 
Cameraman (Retired) 
07971 007578 
nickrodger at mac.com  

Sent from my iPhone. 
Please excuse typos and auto~corruptions!! 

Don?t blame me!! 
I voted Remain ??










On 20 Apr 2024, at 14:03, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?To answer the first question, when you go to ip phones (already have with verginmedia) you get a socket from the back of your router which apeares to behave like your old copper master socket. If you have a set of sockets currently wired round different rooms, just remove the incoming phone line and use a plug to plug lead to one socket (With splitter if you need to plug a phone in as well) All sockets should be live and work as before.

Wait until mid or late May before looking for new deals. Best deals disappear after a price rise,  but re apear after a couple of months.
Best deals are usually on comparison sites not direct, even with your current provider. For sim only this is often double the price for the same network and provider........



Paul Thackray

 

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

+44 7802 243979

Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk

 

Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/



  Original Message  


From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 20 April 2024 13:42
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Reply to: plowmandave44 at gmail.com
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre


Not been able to find an answer by Googling.

When I lose my copper landline, will I still be able to use my multiple
DECT phones (5 base stations)? All the answers seem to be for one
domestic phone.

My BT bill - copper to the cabinet (which works just fine for me) for
broadband, landline phones and BT TV and BT also my mobile has got
stupidly expensive - worse since they've stopped the line saver deal. So
I'd guess time to change. But all the deals seem to involve fibre to the
house.

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sat Apr 20 09:12:05 2024
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 15:12:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <5aa7921e-7dee-4cf0-9479-9dcbf85f086f@gmail.com>
References: <5aa7921e-7dee-4cf0-9479-9dcbf85f086f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DA7B9241-EB6C-4FF9-BD3D-E0F6ECF2FE1B@zero51.force9.co.uk>

Dave
Yes.
I am going through this now. My contract with Plus Net (owned by BT) has just run out and I have been holding off renewing until I knew what to do for the best. Clearly the PSTN (or POTS) carried over the copper is due to end in 2025 even if you keep the copper drop wire  (as they call it) or underground you will have to change to VoIP. They will also offer a 20Megabit service called SOGEA using the same copper line you have now just for internet only. BT want to charge as much for their Digital Voice and it's calls as they do for the normally discounted landline. Not good if you don't use the landline very often.  Until full fibre is rolled out they seem to be planning to continue using the same fibre from the exchange and copper from the local box, but force you onto a VoIP system they call Digital Voice. And then they will scrap all the exchange gear and eventually all the miles of copper trunk lines.  Digital Voice won't be powered via the line from exchange battery banks anymore so it won't work in a power cut unless you have your own battery back up.
Plus Net aren't offering telephony any more (except for business?) so what I have done is sign up with Andrews & Arnold, which got more than  a few mentions on the Plusnet community pages, for their SIP (effectively VoIP)  It costs ?1.20 to sign up and ?1.44 per month for  continuing use of a number of your choice, or you can port over your BT number.
 ?1.44 is the  cheap and cheerful local number end with a 30 day rolling contract, so you could use one of their numbers until your BT line dies. My new number is more memorable than the old BT number. There are about six options from a fairly basic ?1.44 to ?1000 a month (!) for what thay call a "taxi" number ie highly memorable (or maybe not if you can't actually remember the fancy order you chose) There are some much more sensible offerings in between; tin bronze silver gold platinum etc.
The actual calls are 1.5p per minute,  (2.5p minimum set-up)... France is 1p peak and off peak and Sweden 2p per min.  (0.833p to Germany Alan)
I have mine running now over FTTC and it will continue to work over FTTP when that happens. We have had fibre rigged to the telegraph poles up this road last year so I am almost certainly going to change to full fibre now. I could renew the current landline set-up with phone but I don't see the point as its going to get scrapped next year. Finally, I have bought a Grandstream 4 port ATA analogue telephone apparatus HT814 for ?120 from Ebay  probably a bit more elsewhere but about ?50 from A&A themselves for a single channel Grandstream HT 801 which you plug into your router and it will run your analogue DECT system or, as I have done,  a classic rotary dial 746 as well as an ancient VoIP Siemens Gigaset DECT phone straight off the Asus router. That obsolete A580 is bit long in the tooth, 15/20 yo?, so it was very problematical to set up. In fact I gave up but then found it had registered itself a couple of days later! The learning curve is vertical and there are pages of set up options. You will love it, really.

Peter Fox

On 20 Apr 2024, at 13:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?Not been able to find an answer by Googling.

When I lose my copper landline, will I still be able to use my multiple DECT phones (5 base stations)? All the answers seem to be for one domestic phone

From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sat Apr 20 09:18:38 2024
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 15:18:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <DA7B9241-EB6C-4FF9-BD3D-E0F6ECF2FE1B@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <DA7B9241-EB6C-4FF9-BD3D-E0F6ECF2FE1B@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C744DD8D-BC64-4A18-9E1B-AA73A3938EDB@zero51.force9.co.uk>

as a technical point I had to add a filter, despite having a split BT wall box to add the the ring circuit third wire back in, but that was for the 746 (classic ABS plastic dial phone) and your dect phones might well be ok

Peter Fox

On 20 Apr 2024, at 15:13, Peter Fox <peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk> wrote:

?Dave
Yes.
I am going through this now. My contract with Plus Net (owned by BT) has just run out and I have been holding off renewing until I knew what to do for the best. Clearly the PSTN (or POTS) carried over the copper is due to end in 2025 even if you keep the copper drop wire  (as they call it) or underground you will have to change to VoIP. They will also offer a 20Megabit service called SOGEA using the same copper line you have now just for internet only. BT want to charge as much for their Digital Voice and it's calls as they do for the normally discounted landline. Not good if you don't use the landline very often.  Until full fibre is rolled out they seem to be planning to continue using the same fibre from the exchange and copper from the local box, but force you onto a VoIP system they call Digital Voice. And then they will scrap all the exchange gear and eventually all the miles of copper trunk lines.  Digital Voice won't be powered via the line from exchange battery banks anymore so it won't work in a power cut unless you have your own battery back up.
Plus Net aren't offering telephony any more (except for business?) so what I have done is sign up with Andrews & Arnold, which got more than  a few mentions on the Plusnet community pages, for their SIP (effectively VoIP)  It costs ?1.20 to sign up and ?1.44 per month for  continuing use of a number of your choice, or you can port over your BT number.
?1.44 is the  cheap and cheerful local number end with a 30 day rolling contract, so you could use one of their numbers until your BT line dies. My new number is more memorable than the old BT number. There are about six options from a fairly basic ?1.44 to ?1000 a month (!) for what thay call a "taxi" number ie highly memorable (or maybe not if you can't actually remember the fancy order you chose) There are some much more sensible offerings in between; tin bronze silver gold platinum etc.
The actual calls are 1.5p per minute,  (2.5p minimum set-up)... France is 1p peak and off peak and Sweden 2p per min.  (0.833p to Germany Alan)
I have mine running now over FTTC and it will continue to work over FTTP when that happens. We have had fibre rigged to the telegraph poles up this road last year so I am almost certainly going to change to full fibre now. I could renew the current landline set-up with phone but I don't see the point as its going to get scrapped next year. Finally, I have bought a Grandstream 4 port ATA analogue telephone apparatus HT814 for ?120 from Ebay  probably a bit more elsewhere but about ?50 from A&A themselves for a single channel Grandstream HT 801 which you plug into your router and it will run your analogue DECT system or, as I have done,  a classic rotary dial 746 as well as an ancient VoIP Siemens Gigaset DECT phone straight off the Asus router. That obsolete A580 is bit long in the tooth, 15/20 yo?, so it was very problematical to set up. In fact I gave up but then found it had registered itself a couple of days later! The learning curve is vertical and there are pages of set up options. You will love it, really.

Peter Fox

On 20 Apr 2024, at 13:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?Not been able to find an answer by Googling.

When I lose my copper landline, will I still be able to use my multiple DECT phones (5 base stations)? All the answers seem to be for one domestic phone

From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Apr 20 09:59:43 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 15:59:43 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <C744DD8D-BC64-4A18-9E1B-AA73A3938EDB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <C744DD8D-BC64-4A18-9E1B-AA73A3938EDB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <482C7334-607C-4A03-8761-A6B7DDFF975D@me.com>

I should have added that although we still have copper from the house to the cabinet, conventional telephone connections are being phased out or might have already gone by now. We were keen to abandon it at the earliest opportunity.

When we end up getting fibre all the way, one thing that I?m not sure about is exactly how to get the fibre through my house?  Currently, the router, NAS and various other electronic things which can be left to do their own thing are all under the stairs.  It?s a good central location with mains power and a phone line readily available with its cable under the plaster.  It would make sense for the box from fibre to ethernet to also go there, but the problem is how to neatly run the fibre cable?

The floor is solid and it?s a beamed ceiling with the beams running the ?wrong way?, which would mean that it has to keep running up, down and around the beams, like the top of a castle wall. A surface mounted cable would look pretty rubbish, especially when you consider minimum bending radii, and there aren?t any good options for running at skirting board level either because of the number of doors it would need to go over.

The best option would be to run a cable through the gap between the ceiling and upstairs floor, from the front wall to the under-stairs space.  It would be unreasonable to expect Openreach to do that, but I?d be happy to do it so that I know it?s done properly and neatly. 

Does anybody know if Openreach would co-operate with a proposal like that and provide about 5 metres of fibre to install ahead of time?  It would presumably also require some sort of optical junction box in the porch to join the house fibre to the incoming fibre.

Has anybody done anything like that, or have a better idea?  

The only person I know who has done something comparable mounted the fibre to ethernet modem on the internal wall but had already installed a suitable CAT5 through conduit when the hall was replastered and had already installed a mains socket for a video doorbell. That?s not an option for me as there is no mains power anywhere near where it would need to be on the wall of the hall.  

Alan


> On 20 Apr 2024, at 15:19, Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?as a technical point I had to add a filter, despite having a split BT wall box to add the the ring circuit third wire back in, but that was for the 746 (classic ABS plastic dial phone) and your dect phones might well be ok
> 
> Peter Fox
> 
> On 20 Apr 2024, at 15:13, Peter Fox <peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Dave
> Yes.
> I am going through this now. My contract with Plus Net (owned by BT) has just run out and I have been holding off renewing until I knew what to do for the best. Clearly the PSTN (or POTS) carried over the copper is due to end in 2025 even if you keep the copper drop wire  (as they call it) or underground you will have to change to VoIP. They will also offer a 20Megabit service called SOGEA using the same copper line you have now just for internet only. BT want to charge as much for their Digital Voice and it's calls as they do for the normally discounted landline. Not good if you don't use the landline very often.  Until full fibre is rolled out they seem to be planning to continue using the same fibre from the exchange and copper from the local box, but force you onto a VoIP system they call Digital Voice. And then they will scrap all the exchange gear and eventually all the miles of copper trunk lines.  Digital Voice won't be powered via the line from exchange battery banks anymore so it won't work in a power cut unless you have your own battery back up.
> Plus Net aren't offering telephony any more (except for business?) so what I have done is sign up with Andrews & Arnold, which got more than  a few mentions on the Plusnet community pages, for their SIP (effectively VoIP)  It costs ?1.20 to sign up and ?1.44 per month for  continuing use of a number of your choice, or you can port over your BT number.
> ?1.44 is the  cheap and cheerful local number end with a 30 day rolling contract, so you could use one of their numbers until your BT line dies. My new number is more memorable than the old BT number. There are about six options from a fairly basic ?1.44 to ?1000 a month (!) for what thay call a "taxi" number ie highly memorable (or maybe not if you can't actually remember the fancy order you chose) There are some much more sensible offerings in between; tin bronze silver gold platinum etc.
> The actual calls are 1.5p per minute,  (2.5p minimum set-up)... France is 1p peak and off peak and Sweden 2p per min.  (0.833p to Germany Alan)
> I have mine running now over FTTC and it will continue to work over FTTP when that happens. We have had fibre rigged to the telegraph poles up this road last year so I am almost certainly going to change to full fibre now. I could renew the current landline set-up with phone but I don't see the point as its going to get scrapped next year. Finally, I have bought a Grandstream 4 port ATA analogue telephone apparatus HT814 for ?120 from Ebay  probably a bit more elsewhere but about ?50 from A&A themselves for a single channel Grandstream HT 801 which you plug into your router and it will run your analogue DECT system or, as I have done,  a classic rotary dial 746 as well as an ancient VoIP Siemens Gigaset DECT phone straight off the Asus router. That obsolete A580 is bit long in the tooth, 15/20 yo?, so it was very problematical to set up. In fact I gave up but then found it had registered itself a couple of days later! The learning curve is vertical and there are pages of set up options. You will love it, really.
> 
> Peter Fox
> 
> On 20 Apr 2024, at 13:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Not been able to find an answer by Googling.
> 
> When I lose my copper landline, will I still be able to use my multiple DECT phones (5 base stations)? All the answers seem to be for one domestic phone
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 20 10:08:17 2024
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 16:08:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] London Marathon
Message-ID: <bb979ef5-c392-4f87-85a8-b7638e108761@gmail.com>

Hi all

[Dad mode on]

Both my daughters are running in the London Marathon on Sunday.

Katie is running with the Liverpool group charity "kNOw Knife Crime"? 
which is providing bleed control kits all around Merseyside: you may 
have seen Laura Hughes, the charity founder, on television recently 
talking about how important it is to have these bleed control kits 
readily accessible (Laura's brother, Colin McGinty, was stabbed to death 
in March 2001).? Some 80 schools in North Merseyside took part in 
various Marathon events last week, including a relay in which a bleed 
control kit was the baton.

Lucy is running for the charity "Tommy's"? which funds vital research 
into miscarriage, stillbirth and premature birth - Lucy had difficulties 
in this area, miscarrying twins initially.? She has achieved her 
donation target - it's a charity that you might not have heard of, but 
In the UK, it is estimated that around 1 in 4 pregnancies end in loss 
during pregnancy or birth, and Tommy's is funding research into the 
causes of baby loss.

So I shall be glued to the telly tomorrow ...

[Dad mode off]

Best regards

Alec


-- 
=====================================

Alec Bray
alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
MOD:  07789 561 346
TEL:  0118 981 7502



From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Apr 20 10:20:52 2024
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 16:20:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <C744DD8D-BC64-4A18-9E1B-AA73A3938EDB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <DA7B9241-EB6C-4FF9-BD3D-E0F6ECF2FE1B@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<C744DD8D-BC64-4A18-9E1B-AA73A3938EDB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7db3b0cc-aafc-484c-b9d3-10ea7f8739ee@chriswoolf.co.uk>

I'll reinforce almost everything Peter Fox has said - and give great 
praise to Andrew and Arnold, who I have used for many years - absolutely 
brilliant service.

However the 20Mb/s internet service isn't a guaranteed one. You get that 
if OpenReach or whoever can provide it in your area, and if the cabling 
will support it.

I had heard that 10Mb/s was the rock bottom that the government was 
going to permit, but talking to OFCOM it seems even that is only an 
aspiration;}

Chris Woolf

On 20/04/2024 15:18, Peter Fox via Tech1 wrote:
> as a technical point I had to add a filter, despite having a split BT wall box to add the the ring circuit third wire back in, but that was for the 746 (classic ABS plastic dial phone) and your dect phones might well be ok
>
> Peter Fox
>
> On 20 Apr 2024, at 15:13, Peter Fox <peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?Dave
> Yes.
> I am going through this now. My contract with Plus Net (owned by BT) has just run out and I have been holding off renewing until I knew what to do for the best. Clearly the PSTN (or POTS) carried over the copper is due to end in 2025 even if you keep the copper drop wire  (as they call it) or underground you will have to change to VoIP. They will also offer a 20Megabit service called SOGEA using the same copper line you have now just for internet only. BT want to charge as much for their Digital Voice and it's calls as they do for the normally discounted landline. Not good if you don't use the landline very often.  Until full fibre is rolled out they seem to be planning to continue using the same fibre from the exchange and copper from the local box, but force you onto a VoIP system they call Digital Voice. And then they will scrap all the exchange gear and eventually all the miles of copper trunk lines.  Digital Voice won't be powered via the line from exchange battery banks anymore so it won't work in a power cut unless you have your own battery back up.
> Plus Net aren't offering telephony any more (except for business?) so what I have done is sign up with Andrews & Arnold, which got more than  a few mentions on the Plusnet community pages, for their SIP (effectively VoIP)  It costs ?1.20 to sign up and ?1.44 per month for  continuing use of a number of your choice, or you can port over your BT number.
> ?1.44 is the  cheap and cheerful local number end with a 30 day rolling contract, so you could use one of their numbers until your BT line dies. My new number is more memorable than the old BT number. There are about six options from a fairly basic ?1.44 to ?1000 a month (!) for what thay call a "taxi" number ie highly memorable (or maybe not if you can't actually remember the fancy order you chose) There are some much more sensible offerings in between; tin bronze silver gold platinum etc.
> The actual calls are 1.5p per minute,  (2.5p minimum set-up)... France is 1p peak and off peak and Sweden 2p per min.  (0.833p to Germany Alan)
> I have mine running now over FTTC and it will continue to work over FTTP when that happens. We have had fibre rigged to the telegraph poles up this road last year so I am almost certainly going to change to full fibre now. I could renew the current landline set-up with phone but I don't see the point as its going to get scrapped next year. Finally, I have bought a Grandstream 4 port ATA analogue telephone apparatus HT814 for ?120 from Ebay  probably a bit more elsewhere but about ?50 from A&A themselves for a single channel Grandstream HT 801 which you plug into your router and it will run your analogue DECT system or, as I have done,  a classic rotary dial 746 as well as an ancient VoIP Siemens Gigaset DECT phone straight off the Asus router. That obsolete A580 is bit long in the tooth, 15/20 yo?, so it was very problematical to set up. In fact I gave up but then found it had registered itself a couple of days later! The learning curve is vertical and there are pages of set up options. You will love it, really.
>
> Peter Fox
>
> On 20 Apr 2024, at 13:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?Not been able to find an answer by Googling.
>
> When I lose my copper landline, will I still be able to use my multiple DECT phones (5 base stations)? All the answers seem to be for one domestic phone

From david.jasma at sky.com  Sat Apr 20 12:24:37 2024
From: david.jasma at sky.com (Dave Buckley)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 18:24:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] connecting analogue phones after changeover to VOI
References: <c7db4517-2eee-4905-a8df-045b39a0b19f.ref@sky.com>
Message-ID: <c7db4517-2eee-4905-a8df-045b39a0b19f@sky.com>

I located the emails I received concerning this changeover from someone 
in BT.

He writes......

'I've attached a couple of diagrams that I hope will answer your question.
They're my best guess at how the connectivity will be at a residence...it
could be some variation on what I've shown.

As far as I know there will be no separate filters involved.  The modem will
convert the incoming line signals into data packets, which will be presented
on the data port(s) (as I've marked in yellow).  The modem will also contain
an analogue-to-digital converter, to extract the digital voice traffic from
the incoming data stream and convert it into analogue voice, which it'll
present on an analogue phone socket.'

Diagrams attached.

Of course, both diagrams presupposes that the router has the D-A A-D 
convertor built in. If not then this has to be external and fed from a 
data o/p. I'm with sky and I will need an external D-A box.

Dave Buckley
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Apr 20 15:11:29 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 21:11:29 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <9c15c953-0a2d-4007-9db8-da7433b88cea@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <9c15c953-0a2d-4007-9db8-da7433b88cea@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <397B2C7C-ACA5-4681-B508-4008FD531707@me.com>

No, the under stairs is right in the middle of the house with no exterior wall, hence the need for about 5 metres of fibre to be installed to reach it.

I?m hoping that when they do decide to run fibre all the way to the house, there will be some sort of preliminary survey where they can look to see what needs to be done. However I don?t know anybody who has had fibre installed recently and don?t know quite what to expect.

Alan

> On 20 Apr 2024, at 21:06, David Hunter <the_slad at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Don't know the layout of your house, but if your understairs cupboard has an outside wall, the simple solution would be to drill (8mm) to the outside. you're probably going to get a  grey fibre to fibre junction box at knee height on the outside of your house anyway.  Engineers are very happy if you've done their work for them!
> 
> I solved a similar problem by getting  the ONT (Optical Network Termination)  placed out of sight in a bedroom and myself running Cat6 through the wall/floor to where I wanted the router.
> 
> You are unlikely to know until the last minute whether the engineer who turns up will be an Openreach employee or a subcontracted firm; some are more flexible than others.  As long as you use the right type of fibre  cable to run from outside of the house to under stairs, it's very unlikely an engineer will object to using it. The Openreach website has useful information - I seem to remember the business and property developers pages were worth a look.  07973 795380 if you want to chat.
> 
> Dave Hunter
> 
>> On 20/04/2024 15:59, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> 
>> I should have added that although we still have copper from the house to the cabinet, conventional telephone connections are being phased out or might have already gone by now. We were keen to abandon it at the earliest opportunity.
>> 
>> When we end up getting fibre all the way, one thing that I?m not sure about is exactly how to get the fibre through my house?  Currently, the router, NAS and various other electronic things which can be left to do their own thing are all under the stairs.  It?s a good central location with mains power and a phone line readily available with its cable under the plaster.  It would make sense for the box from fibre to ethernet to also go there, but the problem is how to neatly run the fibre cable?
>> 
>> The floor is solid and it?s a beamed ceiling with the beams running the ?wrong way?, which would mean that it has to keep running up, down and around the beams, like the top of a castle wall. A surface mounted cable would look pretty rubbish, especially when you consider minimum bending radii, and there aren?t any good options for running at skirting board level either because of the number of doors it would need to go over.
>> 
>> The best option would be to run a cable through the gap between the ceiling and upstairs floor, from the front wall to the under-stairs space.  It would be unreasonable to expect Openreach to do that, but I?d be happy to do it so that I know it?s done properly and neatly.
>> 
>> Does anybody know if Openreach would co-operate with a proposal like that and provide about 5 metres of fibre to install ahead of time?  It would presumably also require some sort of optical junction box in the porch to join the house fibre to the incoming fibre.
>> 
>> Has anybody done anything like that, or have a better idea?
>> 
>> The only person I know who has done something comparable mounted the fibre to ethernet modem on the internal wall but had already installed a suitable CAT5 through conduit when the hall was replastered and had already installed a mains socket for a video doorbell. That?s not an option for me as there is no mains power anywhere near where it would need to be on the wall of the hall.
>> 
>> Alan
>> 


From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sat Apr 20 16:50:05 2024
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2024 22:50:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <397B2C7C-ACA5-4681-B508-4008FD531707@me.com>
References: <397B2C7C-ACA5-4681-B508-4008FD531707@me.com>
Message-ID: <BEAAB3B7-E2A6-4E40-A06E-31FF2E1D6496@zero51.force9.co.uk>

In theory there is a necessary survey before installation day. The incoming fibre goes to an outdoor splice point . And because actual splicing is fraught with inaccuracies and was not too successful in the field, they opted to provide various fixed lengths to get from the splice point to the ONT, which has to powered so must be easy to get to without bending the fibre sharply and near a socket. once that's sorted then cat5e or Cat6 will get you as far as you like to your router. Smart Hub 2 is BTs weapon of choice and has one green analogue output and a DECT transceiver built in. (as well as four RJ45 sockets for PC, Hive, network printer whatever or yet another VoIP phone. You can also sync up mains plug-top ATAs (one supplied "free" by BT) after you have paired them with the Hub. As Dave B said you don't need a filter with fibre unless you are perversely messing with old pulse diallers and need the third wire to ring the electro-magnetic bells and the old filters do that (You could sort that in a wall box) and you might  need to think about converting from  BT phone plugs to RJ11 sockets where necessary. Ebay serves there for less than ?3. 

Peter Fox

On 20 Apr 2024, at 21:12, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?No, the under stairs is right in the middle of the house with no exterior wall, hence the need for about 5 metres of fibre to be installed to reach it.

I?m hoping that when they do decide to run fibre all the way to the house, there will be some sort of preliminary survey where they can look to see what needs to be done. However I don?t know anybody who has had fibre installed recently and don?t know quite what to expect.

Alan

> On 20 Apr 2024, at 21:06, David Hunter <the_slad at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Don't know the layout of your house, but if your understairs cupboard has an outside wall, the simple solution would be to drill (8mm) to the outside. you're probably going to get a  grey fibre to fibre junction box at knee height on the outside of your house anyway.  Engineers are very happy if you've done their work for them!
> 
> I solved a similar problem by getting  the ONT (Optical Network Termination)  placed out of sight in a bedroom and myself running Cat6 through the wall/floor to where I wanted the router.
> 
> You are unlikely to know until the last minute whether the engineer who turns up will be an Openreach employee or a subcontracted firm; some are more flexible than others.  As long as you use the right type of fibre  cable to run from outside of the house to under stairs, it's very unlikely an engineer will object to using it. The Openreach website has useful information - I seem to remember the business and property developers pages were worth a look  07973 795380 if you want to chat.
> 
> Dave Hunter
> 
>> On 20/04/2024 15:59, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> 
>> I should have added that although we still have copper from the house to the cabinet, conventional telephone connections are being phased out or might have already gone by now. We were keen to abandon it at the earliest opportunity.
>> 
>> When we end up getting fibre all the way, one thing that I?m not sure about is exactly how to get the fibre through my house?  Currently, the router, NAS and various other electronic things which can be left to do their own thing are all under the stairs.  It?s a good central location with mains power and a phone line readily available with its cable under the plaster.  It would make sense for the box from fibre t



From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sun Apr 21 04:55:27 2024
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2024 10:55:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <BEAAB3B7-E2A6-4E40-A06E-31FF2E1D6496@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <397B2C7C-ACA5-4681-B508-4008FD531707@me.com>
	<BEAAB3B7-E2A6-4E40-A06E-31FF2E1D6496@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <bc96be97-662a-408e-b69b-7ff2f2c98795@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Having had to sort this problem out a few weeks ago - but not having the 
fibre connection as yet (and probably not for a long time) - still the 
old copper pair and router - I needed to get two ported VOIP phone lines 
onto one broadband router.

Solution has been a Gigaset N300A mini exchange. It can run multiple 
conversations to DECT and give individual phones access to whichever 
incoming lines you want. Has three message recorders too. Just about 
every bell and whistle you could want, up to running a small business.

Brilliant bit of kit that provides all the VOIP connection stuff, and in 
an extended house, internal conversation routing - Sara can call me from 
the kitchen when the cinnamon buns are ready;}

Chris Woolf
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sun Apr 21 10:04:56 2024
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2024 16:04:56 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Peter Ceresole
Message-ID: <981F4A32-BB56-4350-889F-12EAF0CD5D60@icloud.com>

I hear through the grapevine that director Peter Ceresole has died.

? 
Graeme Wall




From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 22 04:55:51 2024
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 10:55:51 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] London Marathon ...iPlayer
Message-ID: <6e632a24-053b-4543-b27c-21c7af2e1ab8@gmail.com>

HI,

A couple of random points about the London Marathon...

Both daughters were running, but with a 5.5 hour target time: so I 
watched out for them on the iPlayer feed - so firstly, it was great to 
have that iPlayer feed, make no mistake about that.

But I was severely disappointed by the "finish line" cameras - to my 
mind, they were NOT broadcast quality!? Here are the girls crossing the 
finishing line: Katie with hands up. Lucy in the pink top...? That is 
certainly not the sharpness I expect...

iPlayer delay - I was tracking the girls' progress using the London 
Marathon app. and using OBS Studio to record the video. The app pinged 
to tell me that Katie had finished, so I waited some time to allow for 
digital processing and then -? without looking at the time check? - 
stopped recording.? But I had stopped recording many seconds too early 
and I had missed the vital point!? IPlayer was quite a considerable 
number of? seconds delayed from the app timing, so I had to rewind on 
iPlayer to capture the crossing point!? (So another point in favour of 
iPlayer... but it is definitely lagging some time behind the event, no 
longer a simultaneous broadcast as in the old analogue days!).

Tracking the two girls, they both seemed to hang about at the approach 
to Tower Bridge - and then suddenly they were more than halfway across.? 
I could only guess at the time that the metalwork around Tower Bridge 
masked the GPS signals ...But you guys will know better!

best regards,

Alec

-- 
=====================================

Alec Bray
alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
MOD:  07789 561 346
TEL:  0118 981 7502
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Mon Apr 22 05:18:51 2024
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 11:18:51 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] London Marathon ...iPlayer
In-Reply-To: <6e632a24-053b-4543-b27c-21c7af2e1ab8@gmail.com>
References: <6e632a24-053b-4543-b27c-21c7af2e1ab8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87C9ECAB-99E7-4DFF-85FA-F38D58E88723@icloud.com>

First, well done to the girls! You areprobably right about the metalwork on Tower Bridge confusing the trcker signals. Few people realise it is actually a steel structure throughout. The stonework is purely decorative to blend in with the Tower next to it.

> On 22 Apr 2024, at 10:55, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> HI,
> A couple of random points about the London Marathon...
> Both daughters were running, but with a 5.5 hour target time: so I watched out for them on the iPlayer feed - so firstly, it was great to have that iPlayer feed, make no mistake about that.
> But I was severely disappointed by the "finish line" cameras - to my mind, they were NOT broadcast quality!  Here are the girls crossing the finishing line: Katie with hands up. Lucy in the pink top...  That is certainly not the sharpness I expect...
> <4qVoRl4baEPHbJOg.png>iPlayer delay - I was tracking the girls' progress using the London Marathon app. and using OBS Studio to record the video.  The app pinged to tell me that Katie had finished, so I waited some time to allow for digital processing and then -  without looking at the time check  - stopped recording.  But I had stopped recording many seconds too early and I had missed the vital point!  IPlayer was quite a considerable number of  seconds delayed from the app timing, so I had to rewind on iPlayer to capture the crossing point!  (So another point in favour of iPlayer... but it is definitely lagging some time behind the event, no longer a simultaneous broadcast as in the old analogue days!).
> Tracking the two girls, they both seemed to hang about at the approach to Tower Bridge - and then suddenly they were more than halfway across.  I could only guess at the time that the metalwork around Tower Bridge masked the GPS signals ...But you guys will know better!
> best regards,
> Alec
> -- 
> =====================================
> 
> Alec Bray
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> MOD: 07789 561 346
> TEL: 0118 981 7502
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From ware.nick at aol.com  Mon Apr 22 06:25:21 2024
From: ware.nick at aol.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 12:25:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <BEAAB3B7-E2A6-4E40-A06E-31FF2E1D6496@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <BEAAB3B7-E2A6-4E40-A06E-31FF2E1D6496@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <F4DBD006-5ED5-447A-8ECD-BD34A7647ED6@aol.com>

No survey needed here. I?m guessing that the ONT must be built into the Nokia WiFi router that came free with our Box Broadband.
Box have a local office that I can walk into and talk to people who know what they are doing. They brought a fibre to the house from the nearest telephone pole and let me do the indoors bit. All that it entailed was to continue the fibre on from the loft to where I had already decided to place the router. 
The Nokia device has an optical fibre connector, 2x USB, 2x phone pluggoles and 4x Cat5. We don?t use the phone or Cat5 because we have good 4G mobiles, and most of our family and friends communicate by FaceTime or WhatsApp or mobile texting. Everything else (PC?s, printer, Alexa, security cameras, etc.) is via the WiFi. 
WhatsMore to need?
The hard bit was getting rid of TalkTalk, which took just over a year after our agreed contract end date. Incessant bills, late payment demands, threats of legal action, etc. The one thing they didn?t have was any communication within their (dis)organisation! Nightmare.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

> On 20 Apr 2024, at 22:51, Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?In theory there is a necessary survey before installation day. The incoming fibre goes to an outdoor splice point . And because actual splicing is fraught with inaccuracies and was not too successful in the field, they opted to provide various fixed lengths to get from the splice point to the ONT, which has to powered so must be easy to get to without bending the fibre sharply and near a socket. once that's sorted then cat5e or Cat6 will get you as far as you like to your router. Smart Hub 2 is BTs weapon of choice and has one green analogue output and a DECT transceiver built in. (as well as four RJ45 sockets for PC, Hive, network printer whatever or yet another VoIP phone. You can also sync up mains plug-top ATAs (one supplied "free" by BT) after you have paired them with the Hub. As Dave B said you don't need a filter with fibre unless you are perversely messing with old pulse diallers and need the third wire to ring the electro-magnetic bells and the old filters do that (You could sort that in a wall box) and you might  need to think about converting from  BT phone plugs to RJ11 sockets where necessary. Ebay serves there for less than ?3.
> 
> Peter Fox
> 
> On 20 Apr 2024, at 21:12, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?No, the under stairs is right in the middle of the house with no exterior wall, hence the need for about 5 metres of fibre to be installed to reach it.
> 
> I?m hoping that when they do decide to run fibre all the way to the house, there will be some sort of preliminary survey where they can look to see what needs to be done. However I don?t know anybody who has had fibre installed recently and don?t know quite what to expect.
> 
> Alan



From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 22 06:50:04 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 12:50:04 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dimmer question.
Message-ID: <22733baa-04c8-44a7-9a5d-5a95c68a8672@gmail.com>

I have a few dimmers round the house I like. They have a small push 
button rather that the usual knob, and look very neat (to me). Tap to 
switch on or off, hold down to alter the level. Was quite surprised to 
find they work with dimmable LEDs too, being quite old.

My post concerns the most used one feeding a single pendant fitting over 
the dining table in the kitchen. Where I tend to use my laptop, so 
likely the most used one in the house. The lampshade allows you to see 
the bulb (bubble for those who have been beaten into submission by 
sparks) so chose a 100mm diameter globe one. After several years, that 
LED started flickering on a dim setting. Could no longer get it (Osram) 
from my local supplier, so got a similar one from IKEA. Which dims 
perfectly. Except it won't switch off. When switched off, it lights at 
its dimmest setting.

So the question is - does that cost more to run than one which does 
switch off?
-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From stevewlowry at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 22 06:53:28 2024
From: stevewlowry at hotmail.com (Steve Lowry)
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2024 11:53:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Phones on fibre
In-Reply-To: <F4DBD006-5ED5-447A-8ECD-BD34A7647ED6@aol.com>
References: <BEAAB3B7-E2A6-4E40-A06E-31FF2E1D6496@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<F4DBD006-5ED5-447A-8ECD-BD34A7647ED6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <PAVPR10MB6962DB134F597BDA747A6466B6122@PAVPR10MB6962.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hello all,



I'll be brief after wasting the morning with Vodafone 'Customer Help' achieving little: Vodafone - Avoid!



Re.: BT - Smart Hub 2 as BT's solution to phones when moving us to Full Fibre to the home (like it or not)  if with BT,:



  1.  Smart Hub 2 has its own proprietary solution to allow 'old' phones to work with their ?Digital Voice?. Fine if you are happy with BT as your broadband provider, and their call charging on Digital Voice!



  1.  BT Digital Voice needs a Smart Hub 2 to work, and this forces you to use BT?s Smart Hub 2. No other modem/router will provide the BT Digital Voice service.



  1.  Any of us who have spent time and money buying better hubs/modems, maybe a mesh system to ensure good WiFi coverage throughout their homes, cannot continue to use these modems if they want BT Digital Voice to work. BT have locked down their Smart Hub 2 so that you cannot use this and your existing hubs/modems together.



  1.  My landline master socket is also several interior walls away from any external wall. I hope I win a survey by someone who cares about such things ?when my time comes?!



I like Plusnet very much and I am hoping to stay with them for broadband. I want to keep my old landline number when moved to fibre for broadband - No landline ? Therefore, I will need to go for VoIP to maintain my ?landline? number. Currently, ?good names to be trusted? in the VoIP ? Residential UK market seem few, and less well proven?



Maybe, by December 2025 all this will be less of a concern as things ?mature?. Can I delay until then? Hopefully so.



All the best,



Steve



-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 12:25 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Phones on fibre



No survey needed here. I?m guessing that the ONT must be built into the Nokia WiFi router that came free with our Box Broadband.

Box have a local office that I can walk into and talk to people who know what they are doing. They brought a fibre to the house from the nearest telephone pole and let me do the indoors bit. All that it entailed was to continue the fibre on from the loft to where I had already decided to place the router.

The Nokia device has an optical fibre connector, 2x USB, 2x phone pluggoles and 4x Cat5. We don?t use the phone or Cat5 because we have good 4G mobiles, and most of our family and friends communicate by FaceTime or WhatsApp or mobile texting. Everything else (PC?s, printer, Alexa, security cameras, etc.) is via the WiFi.

WhatsMore to need?

The hard bit was getting rid of TalkTalk, which took just over a year after our agreed contract end date. Incessant bills, late payment demands, threats of legal action, etc. The one thing they didn?t have was any communication within their (dis)organisation! Nightmare.

Cheers,

Nick.

Nick Ware - sent from my iPad



> On 20 Apr 2024, at 22:51, Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

>

> ?In theory there is a necessary survey before installation day. The incoming fibre goes to an outdoor splice point . And because actual splicing is fraught with inaccuracies and was not too successful in the field, they opted to provide various fixed lengths to get from the splice point to the ONT, which has to powered so must be easy to get to without bending the fibre sharply and near a socket. once that's sorted then cat5e or Cat6 will get you as far as you like to your router. Smart Hub 2 is BTs weapon of choice and has one green analogue output and a DECT transceiver built in. (as well as four RJ45 sockets for PC, Hive, network printer whatever or yet another VoIP phone. You can also sync up mains plug-top ATAs (one supplied "free" by BT) after you have paired them with the Hub. As Dave B said you don't need a filter with fibre unless you are perversely messing with old pulse diallers and need the third wire to ring the electro-magnetic bells and the old filters do that (You could sort that in a wall box) and you might  need to think about converting from  BT phone plugs to RJ11 sockets where necessary. Ebay serves there for less than ?3.

>

> Peter Fox

>

> On 20 Apr 2024, at 21:12, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

>

> ?No, the under stairs is right in the middle of the house with no exterior wall, hence the need for about 5 metres of fibre to be installed to reach it.

>

> I?m hoping that when they do decide to run fibre all the way to the house, there will be some sort of preliminary survey where they can look to see what needs to be done. However I don?t know anybody who has had fibre installed recently and don?t know quite what to expect.

>

> Alan





--

Tech1 mailing list

Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>

https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftech-ops.co.uk%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftech1_tech-ops.co.uk&data=05%7C02%7C%7C13c5f74ad80f4b2061a208dc62bf0588%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638493819770953547%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1DEvs%2B5vPvUJ1PRS5VNzGL6SRYcZzgwc9n3aFeMvD1A%3D&reserved=0<http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
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From robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk  Tue Apr 23 06:57:20 2024
From: robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk (Robert Miles)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 12:57:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] BBC2's disastrous opening night
Message-ID: <000001da9575$659fe1a0$30dfa4e0$@soundsuper.co.uk>

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0hryy66

 

 

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From richardjblencowe at gmail.com  Tue Apr 23 08:42:23 2024
From: richardjblencowe at gmail.com (Richard Blencowe)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2024 14:42:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] (no subject)
Message-ID: <CAF1nxLgLLF_ihj4h3QAAQ40Nuhwj3C=tMBmTbGCz6JnNFRp1cA@mail.gmail.com>

I had my interview for Tech Ops on that day. Thought they would ask about
this so had boned up on it. No questions about that! The panel were more
interested my musical knowledge. Anyway I started in Jan. 1965  on TO
course 21.
Happy days!
Dick Blencowe
Hide quoted text
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Wed Apr 24 14:38:30 2024
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2024 20:38:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CAF1nxLgLLF_ihj4h3QAAQ40Nuhwj3C=tMBmTbGCz6JnNFRp1cA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAF1nxLgLLF_ihj4h3QAAQ40Nuhwj3C=tMBmTbGCz6JnNFRp1cA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1620CD9F2EF74666A8F25B1AC8620CA6@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

When this post appeared in my inbox I wondered what thread it referred to as I had seen nothing to explain it. Checking the archive I counted 110 posts this month so far, of which I have received just 4. If anybody sees this could they possibly  transmit its content to Paul? I have included him in the addressee list but in the circumstances feel it unwise to assume he will see it.

The posts I received, apart from Richard?s, were one from Nick Ware on the 13th and then two on the 22nd from Dave Plowman and Alec.

Thank you to anyone who feels they can help,

Dave Newbitt.

From: Richard Blencowe via Tech1 
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2024 2:42 PM
To: Tech-Ops.co.uk email group 
Subject: [Tech1] (no subject)

I had my interview for Tech Ops on that day. Thought they would ask about this so had boned up on it. No questions about that! The panel were more interested my musical knowledge. Anyway I started in Jan. 1965  on TO course 21. 
Happy days!
Dick Blencowe
Hide quoted text


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Wed Apr 24 15:06:42 2024
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2024 21:06:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <1620CD9F2EF74666A8F25B1AC8620CA6@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <vlvjk41dubn35ihougcooh00.1713989202945@pgtmedia.co.uk>

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From richardjblencowe at gmail.com  Wed Apr 24 15:16:30 2024
From: richardjblencowe at gmail.com (Richard Blencowe)
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2024 21:16:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <vlvjk41dubn35ihougcooh00.1713989202945@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <1620CD9F2EF74666A8F25B1AC8620CA6@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<vlvjk41dubn35ihougcooh00.1713989202945@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAF1nxLhPv4Y5gQAjRyVi87MdWtO-6nP5dt9JB7b42Q80UaCAQQ@mail.gmail.com>

I was referring to the ill-fated start day of BBC2. Sorry for the confusion!
Dick Blencowe

On Wed, 24 Apr 2024, 21:08 , <paul at pgtmedia.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Dave,
> I recived both via tech 1 and direct.
>
> It looks like Richard started a new thread but was referring to Rob Miles
> thred. (Richards thread had no title)
>
> I will look and see if I can work out why your other messages have not
> arrived, but my guess is somthing to do with your email
> provider...difficult to prove.
>
>
> Paul Thackray
>
>
>
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>
> +44 7802 243979 <+447802243979>
>
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>
>
>
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>
> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
> *From:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Sent:* 24 April 2024 20:39
> *To:* richardjblencowe at gmail.com; Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk;
> paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
> *Reply to:* dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] (no subject)
>
> When this post appeared in my inbox I wondered what thread it referred to
> as I had seen nothing to explain it. Checking the archive I counted 110
> posts this month so far, of which I have received just 4. If anybody sees
> this could they possibly  transmit its content to Paul? I have included him
> in the addressee list but in the circumstances feel it unwise to assume he
> will see it.
>
> The posts I received, apart from Richard?s, were one from Nick Ware on the
> 13th and then two on the 22nd from Dave Plowman and Alec.
>
> Thank you to anyone who feels they can help,
>
> Dave Newbitt.
>
> *From:* Richard Blencowe via Tech1
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 23, 2024 2:42 PM
> *To:* Tech-Ops.co.uk email group
> *Subject:* [Tech1] (no subject)
>
> I had my interview for Tech Ops on that day. Thought they would ask about
> this so had boned up on it. No questions about that! The panel were more
> interested my musical knowledge. Anyway I started in Jan. 1965  on TO
> course 21.
> Happy days!
> Dick Blencowe
> Hide quoted text
>
> ------------------------------
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From ted123kent at gmail.com  Thu Apr 25 02:45:34 2024
From: ted123kent at gmail.com (Edward Kent)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2024 08:45:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CAF1nxLhPv4Y5gQAjRyVi87MdWtO-6nP5dt9JB7b42Q80UaCAQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1620CD9F2EF74666A8F25B1AC8620CA6@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<vlvjk41dubn35ihougcooh00.1713989202945@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<CAF1nxLhPv4Y5gQAjRyVi87MdWtO-6nP5dt9JB7b42Q80UaCAQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJqjnLgGTcTsfLh3KraGWaQ5gPR=5Ax2Pt31dfL+Es3_eLq6bg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi I must admit to being confused as I am new to the site and Richards
email suddenly appeared sometime  after i introduced myself and talked
about the delay in starting TO 21/22 and my interview . Ted Kent


On Wed, 24 Apr 2024, 23:09 Richard Blencowe via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> I was referring to the ill-fated start day of BBC2. Sorry for the
> confusion!
> Dick Blencowe
>
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2024, 21:08 , <paul at pgtmedia.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Hi Dave,
>> I recived both via tech 1 and direct.
>>
>> It looks like Richard started a new thread but was referring to Rob Miles
>> thred. (Richards thread had no title)
>>
>> I will look and see if I can work out why your other messages have not
>> arrived, but my guess is somthing to do with your email
>> provider...difficult to prove.
>>
>>
>> Paul Thackray
>>
>>
>>
>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>
>> +44 7802 243979 <+447802243979>
>>
>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>
>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>
>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>> *From:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> *Sent:* 24 April 2024 20:39
>> *To:* richardjblencowe at gmail.com; Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk;
>> paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>> *Reply to:* dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] (no subject)
>>
>> When this post appeared in my inbox I wondered what thread it referred to
>> as I had seen nothing to explain it. Checking the archive I counted 110
>> posts this month so far, of which I have received just 4. If anybody sees
>> this could they possibly  transmit its content to Paul? I have included him
>> in the addressee list but in the circumstances feel it unwise to assume he
>> will see it.
>>
>> The posts I received, apart from Richard?s, were one from Nick Ware on
>> the 13th and then two on the 22nd from Dave Plowman and Alec.
>>
>> Thank you to anyone who feels they can help,
>>
>> Dave Newbitt.
>>
>> *From:* Richard Blencowe via Tech1
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 23, 2024 2:42 PM
>> *To:* Tech-Ops.co.uk email group
>> *Subject:* [Tech1] (no subject)
>>
>> I had my interview for Tech Ops on that day. Thought they would ask about
>> this so had boned up on it. No questions about that! The panel were more
>> interested my musical knowledge. Anyway I started in Jan. 1965  on TO
>> course 21.
>> Happy days!
>> Dick Blencowe
>> Hide quoted text
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From patrick.heigham at gmail.com  Thu Apr 25 03:51:42 2024
From: patrick.heigham at gmail.com (PATRICK HEIGHAM)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2024 09:51:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] BBC2's disastrous opening night
In-Reply-To: <000001da9575$659fe1a0$30dfa4e0$@soundsuper.co.uk>
References: <000001da9575$659fe1a0$30dfa4e0$@soundsuper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2a833155-7219-47ae-b59f-05d0435b1e79@gmail.com>

I seem to receive most messages, although Google crashes in with 
requests for password.

I get pissed off with Microsoft butting in, too.
Saw the referred incident on "When TV Goes Horribly Wrong" a few nights ago.

Pat H

On 23/04/2024 12:57, Robert Miles via Tech1 wrote:
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0hryy66
>
>
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From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Apr 25 08:24:32 2024
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2024 14:24:32 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CAJqjnLgGTcTsfLh3KraGWaQ5gPR=5Ax2Pt31dfL+Es3_eLq6bg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJqjnLgGTcTsfLh3KraGWaQ5gPR=5Ax2Pt31dfL+Es3_eLq6bg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BDEA21A1-E29C-43A0-A555-1009C28236BD@mac.com>

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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 25 09:41:10 2024
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2024 15:41:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] No subject
In-Reply-To: <BDEA21A1-E29C-43A0-A555-1009C28236BD@mac.com>
References: <CAJqjnLgGTcTsfLh3KraGWaQ5gPR=5Ax2Pt31dfL+Es3_eLq6bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BDEA21A1-E29C-43A0-A555-1009C28236BD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <80049b5e-aeea-4784-8082-8a982294e93c@gmail.com>

HI,

On 25/04/2024 14:24, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
> As I recall, we only needed to have studied maths or physics to A 
> level standard, but there was no requirement to have passed the exam!

In my case - no science subject to "A" level - my "A" level subjects 
were Latin, French and German!? Did belong to the school's photography 
club, electronics club, and the chemistry society, and I'd set up the 
film club.

Best regards, Alec

-- 
=====================================

Alec Bray
alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
MOD:  07789 561 346
TEL:  0118 981 7502



From patrick.heigham at gmail.com  Thu Apr 25 10:37:50 2024
From: patrick.heigham at gmail.com (PATRICK HEIGHAM)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2024 16:37:50 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BDEA21A1-E29C-43A0-A555-1009C28236BD@mac.com>
References: <CAJqjnLgGTcTsfLh3KraGWaQ5gPR=5Ax2Pt31dfL+Es3_eLq6bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BDEA21A1-E29C-43A0-A555-1009C28236BD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <df121870-30fe-4254-bfe3-1c34138367d6@gmail.com>

I agree with Mike G.

I was offered the job before the exam results came out.
I can only surmise that the Principal of the Tech College wrote such a 
glowing testimonial, that the BBC said "Yes"
I had run the Film Club, there - mainly for presentation, but was asked 
to make a film of the very first Sports Day.
We used to bunk off to Epsom Downs on Derby Day, so it was scheduled for 
exactly then!
Made the film on 8mm with a taperecorded commentary, so I reckon that 
the BBC likened us new intake as
a lump of potters' clay - to be moulded as required.
I was fortunate, working in Sound, to have ace people training me: 
Norman Greaves, Hugh Barker,
Len Shorey, Adrian Stocks, Brian Hiles, Gordon Mackie - sadly now having 
attended funerals of several.
Referring to Physics A level, I achieved a Distinction in the practical, 
but failed the theory paper.
That was full of heat questions - heavy on maths, not my strong point!
I am indebted to the BBC for the training received which stood me in 
good stead when I made it
into the Film Industry.

Best
Pat H



n 25/04/2024 14:24, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:

> In response to Dick?s interview observations, during my interview, 
> which will probably have been about the same time, there was greater 
> interest in the fact that I had built my own canoe than in anything 
> technical. As I recall, we only needed to have studied maths or 
> physics to A level standard, but there was no requirement to have 
> passed the exam!
>
> Mike G
>


From patrick.heigham at gmail.com  Thu Apr 25 10:46:07 2024
From: patrick.heigham at gmail.com (PATRICK HEIGHAM)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2024 16:46:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Snooker
Message-ID: <5c160ec8-11e1-4e8d-b0c1-a1b7e5747d26@gmail.com>

Being engrossed in the snooker, does anyone know if the same camera 
crews are employed,
regardless of whether BBC or ITV are transmitting the competition?

Pat H
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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Thu Apr 25 10:52:13 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2024 16:52:13 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BDEA21A1-E29C-43A0-A555-1009C28236BD@mac.com>
References: <CAJqjnLgGTcTsfLh3KraGWaQ5gPR=5Ax2Pt31dfL+Es3_eLq6bg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BDEA21A1-E29C-43A0-A555-1009C28236BD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <9e7f8b0c-032f-41df-ad30-b9340811ba42@gmail.com>

I was interviewed in Glasgow. My father sold trucks for a living, and 
decided that would be a good time for his annual visit to the Albion 
factory, so got a lift there and back, from Aberdeen. One of the first 
things I was asked to do was fill in an expenses claim for the journey.
When asked about hobbies, I mentioned that I'd just bought a used Vespa 
using my holiday earnings. And was asked to draw out the ignition 
circuit for it.
On 25/04/2024 14:24, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
> In response to Dick?s interview observations, during my interview, which 
> will probably have been about the same time, there was greater interest 
> in the fact that I had built my own canoe than in anything technical. As 
> I recall, we only needed to have studied maths or physics to A level 
> standard, but there was no requirement to have passed the exam!
> 
> Mike G
> 
>> On 25 Apr 2024, at 08:46, Edward Kent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Hi I must admit to being confused as I am new to the site and Richards 
>> email suddenly appeared sometime? after i introduced myself and talked 
>> about the delay in starting TO 21/22 and my interview . Ted Kent
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Apr 2024, 23:09 Richard Blencowe via Tech1, 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>     I was referring to the ill-fated start day of BBC2. Sorry for the
>>     confusion!
>>     Dick Blencowe
>>
>>     On Wed, 24 Apr 2024, 21:08 , <paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>     <mailto:paul at pgtmedia.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Dave,
>>         I recived both via tech 1 and direct.
>>
>>         It looks like Richard started a new thread but was referring
>>         to Rob Miles thred. (Richards thread had no title)
>>
>>         I will look and see if I can work out why your other messages
>>         have not arrived, but my guess is somthing to do with your
>>         email provider...difficult to prove.
>>
>>
>>         Paul Thackray
>>
>>         PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>
>>         +44 7802 243979 <tel:+447802243979>
>>
>>         Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk <mailto:paul at pgtmedia.co.uk>
>>
>>         Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk <http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk>
>>
>>         Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>         <http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746>
>>
>>         IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>         <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/>
>>
>>         *From:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>         *Sent:* 24 April 2024 20:39
>>         *To:* richardjblencowe at gmail.com
>>         <mailto:richardjblencowe at gmail.com>; Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>         <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>         <mailto:paul at pgtmedia.co.uk>
>>         *Reply to:* dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net <mailto:dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net>
>>         *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] (no subject)
>>
>>
>>         When this post appeared in my inbox I wondered what thread it
>>         referred to as I had seen nothing to explain it. Checking the
>>         archive I counted 110 posts this month so far, of which I have
>>         received just 4. If anybody sees this could they possibly 
>>         transmit its content to Paul? I have included him in the
>>         addressee list but in the circumstances feel it unwise to
>>         assume he will see it.
>>         The posts I received, apart from Richard?s, were one from Nick
>>         Ware on the 13th and then two on the 22nd from Dave Plowman
>>         and Alec.
>>         Thank you to anyone who feels they can help,
>>         Dave Newbitt.
>>         *From:* Richard Blencowe via Tech1
>>         *Sent:* Tuesday, April 23, 2024 2:42 PM
>>         *To:* Tech-Ops.co.uk <http://Tech-Ops.co.uk> email group
>>         *Subject:* [Tech1] (no subject)
>>         I had my interview for Tech Ops on that day. Thought they
>>         would ask about this so had boned up on it. No questions about
>>         that! The panel were more interested my musical knowledge.
>>         Anyway I started in Jan. 1965? on TO course 21.
>>         Happy days!
>>         Dick Blencowe
>>         Hide quoted text
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>         -- 
>>         Tech1 mailing list
>>         Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>         http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>         <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Tech1 mailing list
>>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>     <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Apr 28 04:06:29 2024
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2024 10:06:29 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] BECG Open Day
Message-ID: <8C691DC0-D70D-4894-B186-D433CEACF1C6@me.com>

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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sun Apr 28 04:16:25 2024
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2024 10:16:25 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] BECG Open Day
In-Reply-To: <8C691DC0-D70D-4894-B186-D433CEACF1C6@me.com>
References: <8C691DC0-D70D-4894-B186-D433CEACF1C6@me.com>
Message-ID: <CC9961CF-9E8D-4EA5-B103-2D2ACA8105D5@icloud.com>

I am certainly considering going, al other things being equal. Assuming the weather servsw, I will be wearing my Southern TV T-shirt to match the scanner.

> On 28 Apr 2024, at 10:06, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> The Broadcast Engineering Conservation Group, BECG will be having open days at their permanent museum near Lincoln on 25/26 May.  Admission is free and there appears to be plenty of parking.  If anybody has mobility issues, it might be best to discuss their exact requirements directly with the organisers. Their web site also explains options for getting there by public transport.
> 
> I?ve never been there, so can?t report on it in any meaningful way, but have been following their progress with interest. My wife and I will be visiting on the 25th as it fits in with other arrangements for that Bank Holiday weekend. Tech ops folk can either take it as an opportunity to meet up on that day, or a warning to go on the Sunday when I won?t be there.
> 
> Alan
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Tue Apr 30 04:48:46 2024
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (crew13)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 10:48:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Former BBC employee found with almost 60,
 000 indecent images of children - National Crime Agency
Message-ID: <07BB4473-230C-402D-AAC7-656B68D4F14D@vincent68.plus.com>

Shocking News!


> 
> https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/news/former-bbc-employee-found-with-almost-60-000-indecent-images-of-children
> 
> Former BBC employee found with almost 60,000 indecent images of children
> A retired BBC sound engineer has been sentenced after a National Crime Agency investigation found him in possession of over 58,000 indecent images of children.
> 
> David Mundy, 85, from Esher, was arrested by NCA officers on 13 April 2022 after attempting to download illegal content.
> 
> He was subsequently found to have not only searched for indecent images of children, but stored thousands of them on floppy discs, CDs, USBs and hard drives. His offending covered two decades.
> 
> 47 digital storage devices were seized during a search of Mundy?s home address. 31 were found to contain indecent images of children, and many had been labelled to indicate their contents. This included Micro SDs marked ?Misc = boy undone?; ?Franze, Czech etc. lots? and ?several vid+pix?, as well as a bag of discs, 124 of which contained illegal material.
> 
?
> Mundy had accessed illegal content online that involved children as young as six years old, though the majority of the images involved boys between eight and fifteen. He used a peer to peer sharing system to obtain this material, though he stated that he didn?t communicate with other members of the groups he used.
> 
> At his address, NCA officers also found non-digital evidence of Mundy?s offending ? including a 15-page double sided booklet called ?sensitive content movies? sorted by keywords, and several how-to guides on accessing the dark web and ensuring anonymity online. He claimed he had yet to use them.
> 
> Mundy was charged the following year with three offences relating to indecent images of children.
> 
> When interviewed, Mundy admitted to first looking at sexual images of children shortly before retiring from the BBC in 1998. Stating that he was unsure what the definition of abuse was, he argued that his interest was only ?in pleasure?. Almost 2,500 images found on his devices were category A, the most extreme.
> 
> Mundy pleaded guilty to all three offences. Today, 29 April 2024, he was sentenced at Guildford Crown Court to 10 months imprisonment.
> 
> Adam Priestley, NCA Senior Manager, said:
> 
> ?Despite clear evidence showing the scale of his offending, and the horrific nature of the content he repeatedly accessed, Mundy told officers that the images he had saved simply showed kids enjoying themselves.
> 
> ?This could not be further from the truth. Behind each image is a vulnerable child who has been violated and abused for the benefit of offenders like Mundy.
> 
> ?We at the NCA are committed to protecting children and ensuring that individuals who collect this material, creating a demand for abuse content, are held to account.?
> 
> 29 April 2024
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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 30 04:52:10 2024
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 10:52:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Former BBC employee found with almost 60,
 000 indecent images of children - National Crime Agency
In-Reply-To: <07BB4473-230C-402D-AAC7-656B68D4F14D@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <07BB4473-230C-402D-AAC7-656B68D4F14D@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <9eed4f63-08d5-45d1-905b-d63d572a87c4@gmail.com>

Crikey.

On 30/04/2024 10:48, crew13 via Tech1 wrote:
> Shocking News!
> 
> 
>> Former BBC employee found with almost 60,000 indecent images of 
>> children - National Crime Agency
>>
>> https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/news/former-bbc-employee-found-with-almost-60-000-indecent-images-of-children <https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/news/former-bbc-employee-found-with-almost-60-000-indecent-images-of-children>
>>
>>
>>   Former BBC employee found with almost 60,000 indecent images of children
>>
>> A retired BBC sound engineer has been sentenced after a National Crime 
>> Agency investigation found him in possession of over 58,000 indecent 
>> images of children.
>>
>> David Mundy, 85, from Esher, was arrested by NCA officers on 13 April 
>> 2022 after attempting to download illegal content.
>>
>> He was subsequently found to have not only searched for indecent 
>> images of children, but stored thousands of them on floppy discs, CDs, 
>> USBs and hard drives. His offending covered two decades.
>>
>> 47 digital storage devices were seized during a search of Mundy?s home 
>> address. 31 were found to contain indecent images of children, and 
>> many had been labelled to indicate their contents. This included Micro 
>> SDs marked ?Misc = boy undone?; ?Franze, Czech etc. lots? and ?several 
>> vid+pix?, as well as a bag of discs, 124 of which contained illegal 
>> material.
>>
>> David_Mundy.jpg
>>
>> Mundy had accessed illegal content online that involved children as 
>> young as six years old, though the majority of the images involved 
>> boys between eight and fifteen. He used a peer to peer sharing system 
>> to obtain this material, though he stated that he didn?t communicate 
>> with other members of the groups he used.
>>
>> At his address, NCA officers also found non-digital evidence of 
>> Mundy?s offending ? including a 15-page double sided booklet called 
>> ?sensitive content movies? sorted by keywords, and several how-to 
>> guides on accessing the dark web and ensuring anonymity online. He 
>> claimed he had yet to use them.
>>
>> Mundy was charged the following year with three offences relating to 
>> indecent images of children.
>>
>> When interviewed, Mundy admitted to first looking at sexual images of 
>> children shortly before retiring from the BBC in 1998. Stating that he 
>> was unsure what the definition of abuse was, he argued that his 
>> interest was only ?in pleasure?. Almost 2,500 images found on his 
>> devices were category A, the most extreme.
>>
>> Mundy pleaded guilty to all three offences. Today, 29 April 2024, he 
>> was sentenced at Guildford Crown Court to 10 months imprisonment.
>>
>> *Adam Priestley, NCA Senior Manager, said:*
>>
>> ?Despite clear evidence showing the scale of his offending, and the 
>> horrific nature of the content he repeatedly accessed, Mundy told 
>> officers that the images he had saved simply showed kids enjoying 
>> themselves.
>>
>> ?This could not be further from the truth. Behind each image is a 
>> vulnerable child who has been violated and abused for the benefit of 
>> offenders like Mundy.
>>
>> ?We at the NCA are committed to protecting children and ensuring that 
>> individuals who collect this material, creating a demand for abuse 
>> content, are held to account.?
>>
>> *29 April 2024*
>>
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From ware.nick at aol.com  Tue Apr 30 08:22:37 2024
From: ware.nick at aol.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 14:22:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Former BBC employee (etc.)
In-Reply-To: <9eed4f63-08d5-45d1-905b-d63d572a87c4@gmail.com>
References: <9eed4f63-08d5-45d1-905b-d63d572a87c4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0FD0451B-EAEC-4904-9B27-60FEAB5FFC5E@aol.com>

Crikey indeed. I?ve always liked Dave and enjoyed chatting to him here and at Disorganised lunches. A good friend back in my BBC days too. Not in a million years would I have thought him capable of such a thing, and TBH I think it a shame that someone thought fit to post the NCA report on this forum.
N.
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

> On 30 Apr 2024, at 10:52, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Crikey.



From nickwaysound at gmail.com  Tue Apr 30 10:13:31 2024
From: nickwaysound at gmail.com (Nick Way)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 16:13:31 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Former BBC employee (etc.)
In-Reply-To: <0FD0451B-EAEC-4904-9B27-60FEAB5FFC5E@aol.com>
References: <9eed4f63-08d5-45d1-905b-d63d572a87c4@gmail.com>
	<0FD0451B-EAEC-4904-9B27-60FEAB5FFC5E@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAHQRKvss+tUHJ2yQFWS07=Jb7y0kpY_cJ_hYRpDrO4-N5V3g=A@mail.gmail.com>

Agreed Nick.

I wouldn't have thought and I too liked Dave and yes, perhaps it shouldn't
have been posted.

Nick WAY

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, 14:23 Nick Ware via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Crikey indeed. I?ve always liked Dave and enjoyed chatting to him here and
> at Disorganised lunches. A good friend back in my BBC days too. Not in a
> million years would I have thought him capable of such a thing, and TBH I
> think it a shame that someone thought fit to post the NCA report on this
> forum.
> N.
> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>
> > On 30 Apr 2024, at 10:52, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?Crikey.
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Tue Apr 30 10:34:16 2024
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 16:34:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Former BBC employee (etc.)
In-Reply-To: <CAHQRKvss+tUHJ2yQFWS07=Jb7y0kpY_cJ_hYRpDrO4-N5V3g=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9eed4f63-08d5-45d1-905b-d63d572a87c4@gmail.com>	<0FD0451B-EAEC-4904-9B27-60FEAB5FFC5E@aol.com>
	<CAHQRKvss+tUHJ2yQFWS07=Jb7y0kpY_cJ_hYRpDrO4-N5V3g=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003a01da9b13$ddd61650$998242f0$@pgtmedia.co.uk>

FYI.

I have now dropped Dave out of both Chat Groups. Up to an hour ago everything was going to his email (If he had access)

 

Paul

 

Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

07802 243979

Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk <mailto:paul at pgtmedia.co.uk>  

Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk <http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk/> 

Linkedin;    <http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746> http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB;  <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Nick Way via Tech1
Sent: 30 April 2024 16:14
To: Nick Ware <ware.nick at aol.com>
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Former BBC employee (etc.)

 

Agreed Nick.

 

I wouldn't have thought and I too liked Dave and yes, perhaps it shouldn't have been posted.

 

Nick WAY

 

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, 14:23 Nick Ware via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

Crikey indeed. I?ve always liked Dave and enjoyed chatting to him here and at Disorganised lunches. A good friend back in my BBC days too. Not in a million years would I have thought him capable of such a thing, and TBH I think it a shame that someone thought fit to post the NCA report on this forum.
N.
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

> On 30 Apr 2024, at 10:52, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:
> 
> ?Crikey.


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From nickwaysound at gmail.com  Tue Apr 30 10:54:23 2024
From: nickwaysound at gmail.com (Nick Way)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 16:54:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Former BBC employee (etc.)
In-Reply-To: <003a01da9b13$ddd61650$998242f0$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <9eed4f63-08d5-45d1-905b-d63d572a87c4@gmail.com>
	<0FD0451B-EAEC-4904-9B27-60FEAB5FFC5E@aol.com>
	<CAHQRKvss+tUHJ2yQFWS07=Jb7y0kpY_cJ_hYRpDrO4-N5V3g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<003a01da9b13$ddd61650$998242f0$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAHQRKvvEBAgse3kY1UjQTAmOAmfy0iJ+9T1YMnWEph0J1T+wzg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Paul.

On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, 16:34 Paul Thackray, <paul at pgtmedia.co.uk> wrote:

> FYI.
>
> I have now dropped Dave out of both Chat Groups. Up to an hour ago
> everything was going to his email (If he had access)
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Paul Thackray
>
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>
> 07802 243979
>
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>
> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>
>
>
> *From:* Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> *On Behalf Of *Nick Way via
> Tech1
> *Sent:* 30 April 2024 16:14
> *To:* Nick Ware <ware.nick at aol.com>
> *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Former BBC employee (etc.)
>
>
>
> Agreed Nick.
>
>
>
> I wouldn't have thought and I too liked Dave and yes, perhaps it shouldn't
> have been posted.
>
>
>
> Nick WAY
>
>
>
> On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, 14:23 Nick Ware via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> Crikey indeed. I?ve always liked Dave and enjoyed chatting to him here and
> at Disorganised lunches. A good friend back in my BBC days too. Not in a
> million years would I have thought him capable of such a thing, and TBH I
> think it a shame that someone thought fit to post the NCA report on this
> forum.
> N.
> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>
> > On 30 Apr 2024, at 10:52, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?Crikey.
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Tue Apr 30 12:10:00 2024
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 18:10:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Former BBC employee (etc.)
In-Reply-To: <003a01da9b13$ddd61650$998242f0$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <9eed4f63-08d5-45d1-905b-d63d572a87c4@gmail.com>
	<0FD0451B-EAEC-4904-9B27-60FEAB5FFC5E@aol.com>
	<CAHQRKvss+tUHJ2yQFWS07=Jb7y0kpY_cJ_hYRpDrO4-N5V3g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<003a01da9b13$ddd61650$998242f0$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <441e9d05-a853-47a3-902a-c744826d220b@gmail.com>

Hi All,

Way back, Dave Mundy was a very frequent and well-received contributor 
to the discussions within the Tech Ops email group, so it was really 
quite noticeable that recently there had been no contributions from him, 
particularly on subjects that he would have been expected to be 
knowledgeable about.? We wondered if something had happened to him...

Best regards,

Alec

-- 
=====================================

Alec Bray
alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
MOD:  07789 561 346
TEL:  0118 981 7502



From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Tue Apr 30 12:37:21 2024
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 18:37:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Former BBC employee (etc.)
In-Reply-To: <441e9d05-a853-47a3-902a-c744826d220b@gmail.com>
References: <9eed4f63-08d5-45d1-905b-d63d572a87c4@gmail.com>
	<0FD0451B-EAEC-4904-9B27-60FEAB5FFC5E@aol.com>
	<CAHQRKvss+tUHJ2yQFWS07=Jb7y0kpY_cJ_hYRpDrO4-N5V3g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<003a01da9b13$ddd61650$998242f0$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<441e9d05-a853-47a3-902a-c744826d220b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d27ded3f482ca51bc8a4d45d28e3ad31@fireflyuk.net>

Like many of you I knew Dave quite well back in the 60s/70s and just 
like Nick and others found him pleasant, easy going, friendly and 
likeable. He has family down here in Somerset and but for clashing 
arrangements we would have met up on a visit he made a year or two ago. 
I can't help thinking what a dreadfully difficult time it must be for 
them as well as Dave himself likely feeling pretty distraught.
A sad and utterly unexpected turn of events.
Dave Newbitt.

On 30/04/2024 18:10, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Way back, Dave Mundy was a very frequent and well-received contributor 
> to the discussions within the Tech Ops email group, so it was really 
> quite noticeable that recently there had been no contributions from 
> him, particularly on subjects that he would have been expected to be 
> knowledgeable about.? We wondered if something had happened to him...
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Alec
> 
> --
> =====================================
> 
> Alec Bray
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> MOD:  07789 561 346
> TEL:  0118 981 7502


From saranewman at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 30 13:19:21 2024
From: saranewman at hotmail.com (Sara Newman)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 18:19:21 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Former BBC employee (etc.)
In-Reply-To: <d27ded3f482ca51bc8a4d45d28e3ad31@fireflyuk.net>
References: <9eed4f63-08d5-45d1-905b-d63d572a87c4@gmail.com>
	<0FD0451B-EAEC-4904-9B27-60FEAB5FFC5E@aol.com>
	<CAHQRKvss+tUHJ2yQFWS07=Jb7y0kpY_cJ_hYRpDrO4-N5V3g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<003a01da9b13$ddd61650$998242f0$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<441e9d05-a853-47a3-902a-c744826d220b@gmail.com>
	<d27ded3f482ca51bc8a4d45d28e3ad31@fireflyuk.net>
Message-ID: <DB9P195MB2084602A7C4C290FCB9BF653D01A2@DB9P195MB2084.EURP195.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hi, I have strong views about this because our daughter was abused by my neighbour when she was 4 years old, as a result she has crushing mental health problems that have had a massive effect on everyone in my family.  We do not know if there are photos circulating on the internet even now. Actions should have consequences.
Sara

Sent from my iPhone

> On 30 Apr 2024, at 18:38, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?Like many of you I knew Dave quite well back in the 60s/70s and just like Nick and others found him pleasant, easy going, friendly and likeable. He has family down here in Somerset and but for clashing arrangements we would have met up on a visit he made a year or two ago. I can't help thinking what a dreadfully difficult time it must be for them as well as Dave himself likely feeling pretty distraught.
> A sad and utterly unexpected turn of events.
> Dave Newbitt.
>
>> On 30/04/2024 18:10, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> Way back, Dave Mundy was a very frequent and well-received contributor to the discussions within the Tech Ops email group, so it was really quite noticeable that recently there had been no contributions from him, particularly on subjects that he would have been expected to be knowledgeable about.  We wondered if something had happened to him...
>> Best regards,
>> Alec
>> --
>> =====================================
>> Alec Bray
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> MOD:  07789 561 346
>> TEL:  0118 981 7502
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Tue Apr 30 14:05:15 2024
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 20:05:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Former BBC employee (etc.)
In-Reply-To: <DB9P195MB2084602A7C4C290FCB9BF653D01A2@DB9P195MB2084.EURP195.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <9eed4f63-08d5-45d1-905b-d63d572a87c4@gmail.com>
	<0FD0451B-EAEC-4904-9B27-60FEAB5FFC5E@aol.com>
	<CAHQRKvss+tUHJ2yQFWS07=Jb7y0kpY_cJ_hYRpDrO4-N5V3g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<003a01da9b13$ddd61650$998242f0$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<441e9d05-a853-47a3-902a-c744826d220b@gmail.com>
	<d27ded3f482ca51bc8a4d45d28e3ad31@fireflyuk.net>
	<DB9P195MB2084602A7C4C290FCB9BF653D01A2@DB9P195MB2084.EURP195.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <ca1f2a4354436ad4b07cf6eda33d7534@fireflyuk.net>

Sara,
Without doubt all of us will sympathise to the maximum for the terrible 
wrong your daughter suffered. I trust you do not feel any of the posted 
comments, mine included, in any way amount to condoning what has come to 
light. We all speak of the way we found Dave as the simple truth of the 
way things were, in utter ignorance at the time of any inexcusable 
proclivities. If it is now such a profound shock for us to hear of them 
I think on how magnified those feelings will be for his family.
Again I offer my sympathy  for what happened to your daughter and my 
understanding of the damage done to you all. I hope time will dull the 
memories enough for you and your family to be happy and comfortable in 
the future.
Very best wishes,
Dave Newbitt.

On 30/04/2024 19:19, Sara Newman via Tech1 wrote:
> Hi, I have strong views about this because our daughter was abused by 
> my neighbour when she was 4 years old, as a result she has crushing 
> mental health problems that have had a massive effect on everyone in my 
> family.  We do not know if there are photos circulating on the internet 
> even now. Actions should have consequences.
> Sara
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 30 Apr 2024, at 18:38, David Newbitt via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Like many of you I knew Dave quite well back in the 60s/70s and just 
>> like Nick and others found him pleasant, easy going, friendly and 
>> likeable. He has family down here in Somerset and but for clashing 
>> arrangements we would have met up on a visit he made a year or two 
>> ago. I can't help thinking what a dreadfully difficult time it must be 
>> for them as well as Dave himself likely feeling pretty distraught.
>> A sad and utterly unexpected turn of events.
>> Dave Newbitt.
>> 
>>> On 30/04/2024 18:10, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>> Way back, Dave Mundy was a very frequent and well-received 
>>> contributor to the discussions within the Tech Ops email group, so it 
>>> was really quite noticeable that recently there had been no 
>>> contributions from him, particularly on subjects that he would have 
>>> been expected to be knowledgeable about.  We wondered if something 
>>> had happened to him...
>>> Best regards,
>>> Alec
>>> --
>>> =====================================
>>> Alec Bray
>>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>>> MOD:  07789 561 346
>>> TEL:  0118 981 7502
>> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From saranewman at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 30 15:26:23 2024
From: saranewman at hotmail.com (Sara Newman)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 20:26:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Former BBC employee (etc.)
In-Reply-To: <ca1f2a4354436ad4b07cf6eda33d7534@fireflyuk.net>
References: <ca1f2a4354436ad4b07cf6eda33d7534@fireflyuk.net>
Message-ID: <DB9P195MB20840EFCF306F8ACE0A1A2D3D01A2@DB9P195MB2084.EURP195.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Thank you for your kind reply and I in no way feel that you condone in anyway this appalling behaviour. I do feel for his family as, as one psychiatrist said to me it?s like an atomic bomb going off but it?s the aftermath and fall out that causes the most long lasting unrepairable damage. No one remains untouched or unaffected. Sadly the memories never become dulled for many. Thank you for your kind words and understanding. Sara x
Sent from my iPhone

> On 30 Apr 2024, at 20:05, dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net wrote:
>
> ?Sara,
> Without doubt all of us will sympathise to the maximum for the terrible wrong your daughter suffered. I trust you do not feel any of the posted comments, mine included, in any way amount to condoning what has come to light. We all speak of the way we found Dave as the simple truth of the way things were, in utter ignorance at the time of any inexcusable proclivities. If it is now such a profound shock for us to hear of them I think on how magnified those feelings will be for his family.
> Again I offer my sympathy  for what happened to your daughter and my understanding of the damage done to you all. I hope time will dull the memories enough for you and your family to be happy and comfortable in the future.
> Very best wishes,
> Dave Newbitt.
>
>> On 30/04/2024 19:19, Sara Newman via Tech1 wrote:
>> Hi, I have strong views about this because our daughter was abused by my neighbour when she was 4 years old, as a result she has crushing mental health problems that have had a massive effect on everyone in my family.  We do not know if there are photos circulating on the internet even now. Actions should have consequences.
>> Sara
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> On 30 Apr 2024, at 18:38, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?Like many of you I knew Dave quite well back in the 60s/70s and just like Nick and others found him pleasant, easy going, friendly and likeable. He has family down here in Somerset and but for clashing arrangements we would have met up on a visit he made a year or two ago. I can't help thinking what a dreadfully difficult time it must be for them as well as Dave himself likely feeling pretty distraught.
>>> A sad and utterly unexpected turn of events.
>>> Dave Newbitt.
>>>> On 30/04/2024 18:10, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>> Way back, Dave Mundy was a very frequent and well-received contributor to the discussions within the Tech Ops email group, so it was really quite noticeable that recently there had been no contributions from him, particularly on subjects that he would have been expected to be knowledgeable about.  We wondered if something had happened to him...
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Alec
>>>> --
>>>> =====================================
>>>> Alec Bray
>>>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>>>> MOD:  07789 561 346
>>>> TEL:  0118 981 7502
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Tue Apr 30 15:27:39 2024
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 21:27:39 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Former BBC employee (etc.)
In-Reply-To: <0FD0451B-EAEC-4904-9B27-60FEAB5FFC5E@aol.com>
References: <9eed4f63-08d5-45d1-905b-d63d572a87c4@gmail.com>
	<0FD0451B-EAEC-4904-9B27-60FEAB5FFC5E@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000e01da9b3c$d93149c0$8b93dd40$@gmail.com>

Nick
I totally agree with every word you have said!
Dave D

-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 2:23 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Former BBC employee (etc.)

Crikey indeed. I?ve always liked Dave and enjoyed chatting to him here and at Disorganised lunches. A good friend back in my BBC days too. Not in a million years would I have thought him capable of such a thing, and TBH I think it a shame that someone thought fit to post the NCA report on this forum.
N.
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

> On 30 Apr 2024, at 10:52, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Crikey.


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