From techtone at protonmail.com  Mon May  1 08:27:44 2023
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Mon, 01 May 2023 13:27:44 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Tea
In-Reply-To: <6BEA4C3DBF544B4985D6FEA125999828@NewOffice>
References: <6BEA4C3DBF544B4985D6FEA125999828@NewOffice>
Message-ID: <IzA9ydWIwHkEF5GORIrI33Z2_2MMtdvfAQV7ZAczHEyFtcawE9lTChlktZDnrlHbM4INSKVXNPqdYVajptVQA9dbRQC57StezlHQorFmNJU=@protonmail.com>

Well, thank you for the information, and sorry for a tardy reply as I've been away on holiday for a couple of weeks. Sadly, I've had to disable the immortality module as the small print insists that you have to keep updating your working parts, e.g. time for a hip replacement, time for your false teeth, time for new knees, etc. etc. because if anything wears out, the policy is null and void. But I'll have another cuppa (or three) now,

TeaTeaFN - Tony (still in the land of the living)

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.

------- Original Message -------
On Monday, April 17th, 2023 at 17:30, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Well if this is true Tony must be immortal!
>
> Doug Puddifoot
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From waresound at msn.com  Tue May  2 04:22:14 2023
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 09:22:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Joan Williams, First Female BBC Staff Photographer
Message-ID: <AS8P191MB16065C5C8F2AC21FB62FADDCA76F9@AS8P191MB1606.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I rarely watch daytime TV, but a few moments ago, I was intrigued to see Joan Williams being interviewed about photographing Royals, on BBC Morning Live. She was apparently the first ever female BBC staff photographer. There can?t be anyone here who didn?t know her - often seen unobtrusively grabbing production stills, etc. She?s very frail and  now, in Brinsworth House Care Home. Before they cut to the location interviewer, I had a vivid memory of how Joan looked and sounded when I last saw and chatted with her, some 40 years ago. It always comes as a bit of a shock when you discover that people you knew such a long time ago, don?t look the same anymore!
The slightly unfortunate thing was that the interviewer placed herself on camera left, and it was immediately obvious that Joan only hears with her left ear, so her carer, sitting on her left (camera right) chipped in and answered all the questions for her. Such a basic mistake!
Actually, there was no point whatsoever in doing it live. A pre-recorded and edited interview would have been fascinating.
Cheers, Nick.
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

From mike.jdg.minchin at gmail.com  Tue May  2 14:09:18 2023
From: mike.jdg.minchin at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 20:09:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Joan Williams, First Female BBC Staff Photographer
In-Reply-To: <AS8P191MB16065C5C8F2AC21FB62FADDCA76F9@AS8P191MB1606.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <AS8P191MB16065C5C8F2AC21FB62FADDCA76F9@AS8P191MB1606.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <707fc3cc-e4e7-b5dc-be22-9f8ac32d4be7@gmail.com>


On 02/05/2023 10:22, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> I rarely watch daytime TV, but a few moments ago, I was intrigued to see Joan Williams being interviewed about photographing Royals, on BBC Morning Live. She was apparently the first ever female BBC staff photographer. There can?t be anyone here who didn?t know her - often seen unobtrusively grabbing production stills, etc. She?s very frail and  now, in Brinsworth House Care Home. Before they cut to the location interviewer, I had a vivid memory of how Joan looked and sounded when I last saw and chatted with her, some 40 years ago. It always comes as a bit of a shock when you discover that people you knew such a long time ago, don?t look the same anymore!
> The slightly unfortunate thing was that the interviewer placed herself on camera left, and it was immediately obvious that Joan only hears with her left ear, so her carer, sitting on her left (camera right) chipped in and answered all the questions for her. Such a basic mistake!
> Actually, there was no point whatsoever in doing it live. A pre-recorded and edited interview would have been fascinating.
> Cheers, Nick.
> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

I also saw? this not very informative/ not very competent interview - 
having been pointed towards it by my partner, Margot. She visits 
Brinsworth House from time to time, and had met Joan there.? She also 
knew that I had met Joan back in the '60s - she was around when we 
televised Coppelia from TVT, AND we have a large picture of me operating 
a Pye camera on the Blue Peter Set, taken by Joan.? She had a photo 
session taking shots of members of the "out of vision" crew for a 
feature in the very first Blue Peter Book (Annual).?? My print had been 
made for a ?Tech Ops exhibition, then taken over by Camera Managers - 
who then passed it on to me.

So sorry to see Joan so old - but then I was always that bit younger 
than her!!

Mike Minchin




From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Fri May  5 07:58:27 2023
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2023 13:58:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Emitron
Message-ID: <952ae87e-8925-5950-a4f6-e95d89536cc2@gmail.com>

Was watching Newsnight yesterday. They were analysing the local election 
results with the help of Prof. Curtice who is, as they say, slightly 
follically challenged. For some reason only known to those of an 
artistic bent, the backlights were blue. And one reflecting on his bald 
head. But a moving sharp dot with a different colour centre which 
brought back memories of Cliff Michelmore and CPS Emitron cameras. That 
and watching the cameras repositioning in the 'windows' which were 
acting like mirrors made for a memorable programme.
-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From geoffletch at gmail.com  Fri May  5 12:11:11 2023
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2023 18:11:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Emitron
In-Reply-To: <952ae87e-8925-5950-a4f6-e95d89536cc2@gmail.com>
References: <952ae87e-8925-5950-a4f6-e95d89536cc2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB_j0kE1rABq+KgeF9aJgCq2yVRX3o7tk8=i76xO2-R8OQ@mail.gmail.com>

I remember the Emitron  ?peel?. They also had controls the opposite way
round to all the other cameras with the focus control on the left. The lens
change was also awkward in that it was mounted centrally in the back of the
camera and had to be rotated after squeezing a release on the handle. You
couldn?t go all the way around the turret in one go owing to your wrist not
having 360 degree rotation. Also unlike other camera, Emitrons focussed by
moving the lens turret backwards and forwards and not the tube. Cabling up
was done on a circular set of inputs on the studio wall and you had to use
a C spanner to undo and/or do up the cable ends in the sockets. Because of
there being very little clearance you usually ended up with cut knuckles
originating from sharp edges on the securing screws on the socket fittings.
Geoff F

On Fri, 5 May 2023 at 13:59, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Was watching Newsnight yesterday. They were analysing the local election
> results with the help of Prof. Curtice who is, as they say, slightly
> follically challenged. For some reason only known to those of an
> artistic bent, the backlights were blue. And one reflecting on his bald
> head. But a moving sharp dot with a different colour centre which
> brought back memories of Cliff Michelmore and CPS Emitron cameras. That
> and watching the cameras repositioning in the 'windows' which were
> acting like mirrors made for a memorable programme.
> --
> Dave Plowman
> London, SW
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From alawrance1 at me.com  Fri May  5 12:19:01 2023
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2023 18:19:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Emitron
In-Reply-To: <CAB99AB_j0kE1rABq+KgeF9aJgCq2yVRX3o7tk8=i76xO2-R8OQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB99AB_j0kE1rABq+KgeF9aJgCq2yVRX3o7tk8=i76xO2-R8OQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A3C941A-4A8F-4C6D-BF8F-9516AEB81F22@me.com>

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From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com  Sat May  6 08:20:00 2023
From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 14:20:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
Message-ID: <7563a0cb-750a-625d-60f8-856737f45b46@googlemail.com>

I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre 
Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started 
together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for 
all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was 
doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a 
big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on 
the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. 
Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?

John Nottage


From nickrodger at mac.com  Sat May  6 08:30:12 2023
From: nickrodger at mac.com (Nick Rodger)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 14:30:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <7563a0cb-750a-625d-60f8-856737f45b46@googlemail.com>
References: <7563a0cb-750a-625d-60f8-856737f45b46@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>

According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back. 

Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv. 

Nick. 

Nick Rodger 
Cameraman (Retired) 
07971 007578 
nickrodger at mac.com <mailto:nickrodger at mac.com> 

Don?t blame me!! 
I voted Remain ?? 









On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?

John Nottage

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Sat May  6 08:33:23 2023
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 14:33:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
References: <7563a0cb-750a-625d-60f8-856737f45b46@googlemail.com>
	<09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <8191d5e7-bbbb-10ab-1191-c32ed9333ada@gmail.com>

Checked on FreeSat BBC 1 HD too - just the same as FreeView.

On 06/05/2023 14:30, Nick Rodger via Tech1 wrote:
> According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some 
> kind of talk~back.
> 
> Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was 
> it my tv.
> 
> Nick.
> 
> Nick Rodger
> Cameraman (Retired)
> 07971 007578
> nickrodger at mac.com <mailto:nickrodger at mac.com>
> 
> Don?t blame me!!
> I voted Remain ??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
> wrote:
> 
> I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre 
> Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started 
> together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for 
> all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was 
> doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a 
> big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on 
> the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. 
> Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?
> 
> John Nottage
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From david.jasma at sky.com  Sat May  6 08:38:55 2023
From: david.jasma at sky.com (david.jasma)
Date: Sat, 06 May 2023 14:38:55 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1360009991.2059232.1683380342904@sky.com>

Yes, near the start of the broadcast. I changed to ?bc news channel and they didn't seem to have any problems, although the problem may have been sorted by then.Dave BuckleySent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 06/05/2023  14:30  (GMT+00:00) To: John Nottage <jnottage.jn at googlemail.com> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back.?Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv.?Nick.?
Nick Rodger?Cameraman (Retired)?07971 007578?nickrodger at mac.com?Don?t blame me!!?I voted Remain ???

On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?John Nottage-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Sat May  6 08:39:47 2023
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 14:39:47 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <7563a0cb-750a-625d-60f8-856737f45b46@googlemail.com>
References: <7563a0cb-750a-625d-60f8-856737f45b46@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <287349053.454829.1683380387921@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Sat May  6 08:41:47 2023
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 14:41:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
References: <7563a0cb-750a-625d-60f8-856737f45b46@googlemail.com>
	<09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <000001d98020$810b4ad0$8321e070$@gmail.com>

We had the same breaks in sound during the ceremony and still going on in the chat afterwards and wondered what?s doing it?

Also noticed what seemed like talkback or comms breakthrough once or twice during the ceremony,

 

Geoff Hawkes

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Nick Rodger via Tech1
Sent: Saturday, May 6, 2023 2:30 PM
To: John Nottage <jnottage.jn at googlemail.com>
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage

 

According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back. 

 

Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv. 

 

Nick. 

 

Nick Rodger 

Cameraman (Retired) 
07971 007578 
nickrodger at mac.com <mailto:nickrodger at mac.com>  

Don?t blame me!! 
I voted Remain ?? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

 

I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?

John Nottage

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

 

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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sat May  6 08:53:19 2023
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 14:53:19 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
References: <7563a0cb-750a-625d-60f8-856737f45b46@googlemail.com>
	<09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7F450236-3E3D-4AB9-980F-91690C835097@icloud.com>

Didn?t notice any sound problems, too busy complaining about the director! Kept starting a camera zoom after a period of static shot and then immediately cutting away! 


> On 6 May 2023, at 14:30, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back. 
> 
> Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv. 
> 
> Nick. 
> 
> Nick Rodger 
> Cameraman (Retired) 
> 07971 007578 
> nickrodger at mac.com 
> 
> Don?t blame me!! 
> I voted Remain ?? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?
> 
> John Nottage
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Sat May  6 08:15:16 2023
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 14:15:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coverage of the Coronation
Message-ID: <61759E23-0493-4266-8D0C-6CD33B438B98@gmail.com>

?Just wondering what caused the occasional breaks in sound during the ceremony in the Abbey and outside afterwards, assuming it wasn?t just a fault with our receiver - and what sounded like talkback break-through during the service, unless it was from outside interference?
Geoff Hawkes

From chriseames1944 at btinternet.com  Sat May  6 09:01:12 2023
From: chriseames1944 at btinternet.com (Chris Eames)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 15:01:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
References: <09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <21CF0CD2-308F-451F-95C0-7FE964AC2B1F@btinternet.com>

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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat May  6 09:41:35 2023
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 15:41:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <7563a0cb-750a-625d-60f8-856737f45b46@googlemail.com>
References: <7563a0cb-750a-625d-60f8-856737f45b46@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <C6D927B1-E205-493B-9816-2930FC5985B8@me.com>

There is still the delay caused by the speed of sound. The tempo will be identical, but the exact sync might be a bit random depending on how far away the microphones were. 

Even if you only have one marching band, cross fading from one microphone to another one just fifty metres away can introduce a delay of about four frames.  Longer distances than that are the norm and introduce greater time delay problems.

I suspect that the drummer IEM was really there so that all the bands played at exactly the correct tempo, which in turn meant that they would be marching at precisely the same pace as the bands in front or behind and therefore keep perfectly spaced along the route. I?ve previously mentioned a few months ago how an officer uses a giant calliper to calibrate how far a soldier moves in one pace and then counts the number of paces along the route so that by starting at a known point and marching at an exact pace and tempo, they finish exactly at the required finishing point on the last beat of the music.

I didn?t watch it though.  There?s never anything to interest me on daytime television.

Alan


> On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?
> 
> John Nottage
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From nickrodger at mac.com  Sat May  6 09:43:00 2023
From: nickrodger at mac.com (Nick Rodger)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 15:43:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <21CF0CD2-308F-451F-95C0-7FE964AC2B1F@btinternet.com>
References: <09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
	<21CF0CD2-308F-451F-95C0-7FE964AC2B1F@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <680EE4F1-26FB-4017-BBC2-F4CDC8B2B6D8@mac.com>

We flipped between BBC & ITV to check, but the glitches were momentary, and 

the two channels were not in sync, so it was very difficult to tell if ITV was also suffering. 

Still, at least the Tories got well and truly stuffed on Thursday, so it?s not all bad news. 

Nick. 

Nick Rodger 
Cameraman (Retired) 
07971 007578 
nickrodger at mac.com <mailto:nickrodger at mac.com> 

Don?t blame me!! 
I voted Remain ?? 











On 6 May 2023, at 15:01, Chris Eames <chriseames1944 at btinternet.com> wrote:

I wouldn?t call it minor! I was on BBC 1 HD, and it came intermittently during many parts of the coverage. I was assuming that it was something on the distribution system, and not something originating from the BBC itself. If it was originating from the programme feed itself, that would be very embarrassing!

Chris Eames 

> On 6 May 2023, at 14:30, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back. 
> 
> Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv. 
> 
> Nick. 
> 
> Nick Rodger 
> Cameraman (Retired) 
> 07971 007578 
> nickrodger at mac.com <mailto:nickrodger at mac.com> 
> 
> Don?t blame me!! 
> I voted Remain ?? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?
> 
> John Nottage
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From nickrodger at mac.com  Sat May  6 09:46:51 2023
From: nickrodger at mac.com (Nick Rodger)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 15:46:51 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <7F450236-3E3D-4AB9-980F-91690C835097@icloud.com>
References: <7563a0cb-750a-625d-60f8-856737f45b46@googlemail.com>
	<09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
	<7F450236-3E3D-4AB9-980F-91690C835097@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <B9DB3F25-D51C-4FDB-9546-D810296DEEA4@mac.com>

I completely agree about the cutting. 

WTF can?t directors watch their transmission monitor and not just the pre~views? 

Miss a shot and only you know. 

F*** up transmission and the whole world knows. 

Nick. 

Nick Rodger 
Cameraman (Retired) 
07971 007578 
nickrodger at mac.com <mailto:nickrodger at mac.com> 

Don?t blame me!! 
I voted Remain ?? 











On 6 May 2023, at 14:53, Graeme Wall <graeme.wall at icloud.com> wrote:

Didn?t notice any sound problems, too busy complaining about the director! Kept starting a camera zoom after a period of static shot and then immediately cutting away! 









> On 6 May 2023, at 14:30, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back. 
> 
> Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv. 
> 
> Nick. 
> 
> Nick Rodger 
> Cameraman (Retired) 
> 07971 007578 
> nickrodger at mac.com 
> 
> Don?t blame me!! 
> I voted Remain ?? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?
> 
> John Nottage
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall



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From barry-wilkinson at sky.com  Sat May  6 09:47:52 2023
From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 15:47:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coverage of the Coronation
In-Reply-To: <61759E23-0493-4266-8D0C-6CD33B438B98@gmail.com>
References: <61759E23-0493-4266-8D0C-6CD33B438B98@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BA3AC9E2-6C07-4EC5-BC7A-C34EF468E4D8@sky.com>

It sounded to me to be on a major link as it wasn?t just one location. They obviously struggled to find out where the problem was.

Sent from my iPad

> On 6 May 2023, at 15:00, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Just wondering what caused the occasional breaks in sound during the ceremony in the Abbey and outside afterwards, assuming it wasn?t just a fault with our receiver - and what sounded like talkback break-through during the service, unless it was from outside interference?
> Geoff Hawkes
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From mibridge at mac.com  Sat May  6 11:04:41 2023
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 17:04:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
References: <09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7C50F465-D634-4EA3-BF21-65D148B9737E@mac.com>

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From mibridge at mac.com  Sat May  6 11:07:09 2023
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 17:07:09 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coverage of the Coronation
In-Reply-To: <61759E23-0493-4266-8D0C-6CD33B438B98@gmail.com>
References: <61759E23-0493-4266-8D0C-6CD33B438B98@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8FC1C1FC-78C0-4566-BE41-D62E163FC1B5@mac.com>

I heard what I thought at first was talkback at one stage, but I concluded that it had been somebody whispering near an open mic. What I heard didn?t last for long. 

Mike G

> On 6 May 2023, at 15:00, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Just wondering what caused the occasional breaks in sound during the ceremony in the Abbey and outside afterwards, assuming it wasn?t just a fault with our receiver - and what sounded like talkback break-through during the service, unless it was from outside interference?
> Geoff Hawkes
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat May  6 11:14:22 2023
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 17:14:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <7C50F465-D634-4EA3-BF21-65D148B9737E@mac.com>
References: <09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
	<7C50F465-D634-4EA3-BF21-65D148B9737E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <add7763f-73c5-9024-8de2-bd12a3a850b8@btinternet.com>

All very clevrly arranged for te biggest day in their history! I thought 
the whole thing was impeccable and only wished that I hacn't benn 
involved! Well done to all concerned! Cheers, Dave


From davidvbrunt at gmail.com  Sat May  6 11:17:59 2023
From: davidvbrunt at gmail.com (David Brunt)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 17:17:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coverage of the Coronation
In-Reply-To: <8FC1C1FC-78C0-4566-BE41-D62E163FC1B5@mac.com>
References: <61759E23-0493-4266-8D0C-6CD33B438B98@gmail.com>
	<8FC1C1FC-78C0-4566-BE41-D62E163FC1B5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAFKgnywW9i5MRqTtKw6_8VOPrgfNvVSU4BTScjZZFiC7B-V53A@mail.gmail.com>

Was it the ghost of Stewart Morris?

On Sat, 6 May 2023 at 17:08, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I heard what I thought at first was talkback at one stage, but I concluded that it had been somebody whispering near an open mic. What I heard didn?t last for long.
>
> Mike G
>


From hughsnape at talktalk.net  Sat May  6 12:12:36 2023
From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 18:12:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <7C50F465-D634-4EA3-BF21-65D148B9737E@mac.com>
References: <09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
	<7C50F465-D634-4EA3-BF21-65D148B9737E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <E2642AB1-B2FC-4C81-BB1D-20E698701A49@talktalk.net>

Yes, I watched SD via Freeview and heard no break up.

Hugh

> On 6 May 2023, at 17:04, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> We were watching in Dorking from just before ten, on SD from the Mickleham transmitter, with no break-up that I was aware of, and it was on quite loud. But our daughter did say that she had tried HD before we arrived and gave up on it because of break-up, which she attributed to the weather which she says often makes their HD suffer. 
> 
> I think it was Clare Balding who said that all the bass drummers had earpieces with a countdown, so that they all moved off together, which was certainly the case. 
> 
> Mike G
> 
>> On 6 May 2023, at 14:31, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back. 
>> 
>> Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv. 
>> 
>> Nick. 
>> 
>> Nick Rodger 
>> Cameraman (Retired) 
>> 07971 007578 
>> nickrodger at mac.com <mailto:nickrodger at mac.com> 
>> 
>> Don?t blame me!! 
>> I voted Remain ?? 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?
>> 
>> John Nottage
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Sat May  6 12:26:45 2023
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 18:26:45 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <E2642AB1-B2FC-4C81-BB1D-20E698701A49@talktalk.net>
References: <E2642AB1-B2FC-4C81-BB1D-20E698701A49@talktalk.net>
Message-ID: <50C56383-DAB6-4967-B056-DD62723460C7@gmail.com>

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat May  6 13:19:42 2023
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 19:19:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <3EB430FD-7283-473B-8B1C-3551B0165E93@mac.com>
References: <09A06565-C7BE-4DA9-A1CF-A36C5C1D5B4A@mac.com>
	<7C50F465-D634-4EA3-BF21-65D148B9737E@mac.com>
	<add7763f-73c5-9024-8de2-bd12a3a850b8@btinternet.com>
	<3EB430FD-7283-473B-8B1C-3551B0165E93@mac.com>
Message-ID: <32c9781f-122d-c2fc-5a23-2514cc52323b@btinternet.com>

Quite right, Mike, sorry for the typo! Cheers, Dave


From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Sat May  6 15:01:23 2023
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 21:01:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <50C56383-DAB6-4967-B056-DD62723460C7@gmail.com>
References: <E2642AB1-B2FC-4C81-BB1D-20E698701A49@talktalk.net>
	<50C56383-DAB6-4967-B056-DD62723460C7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <029b01d98055$888ae600$99a0b200$@pgtmedia.co.uk>

Hi Geoff,

Unfortunately , these days there are times when no one is listening in TX ! (Its just a play-out director & live announcer (Peak times only) )

Engineering is shared across a multitude of channels and different broadcasters. 

 

Nothing like QC exists as far as I know.

 

The other problem is quite a lot of different ?versions? of each feed. This is especially true if 5.1 surround sound is involved. On  a 5.1 sound show, the stereo on Sky, Freesat and VirginMedia is mixed down from the 5.1 in your Sky/Freeview/ Virgin home box. Freeview, SD Sky  and IPlayer is likely the stereo that leaves RedBee (TX) ? as a result more people are listening to the mix down of 5.1 for stereo than the true stereo (Which is what TX listen to) ? If the 5.1 is missing, but the show is flagged as 5.1, The SKY HD & VirginMedia viewers will hear silence on the Stereo , but RedBee (TX) will be listening to good stereo leaving them?. Its an absolute mine field (Bring back the days of simple!)

 

Multiply this by a pile of different English regions and the Nations and soon becomes an issue of , when someone complains, you need to know what and how they are viewing and listening to try and track down where the issue might be. 

 

Paul

Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

07802 243979

Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk <mailto:paul at pgtmedia.co.uk>  

Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk <http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk/> 

Linkedin;    <http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746> http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB;  <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1
Sent: 06 May 2023 18:27
To: Hugh Snape <hughsnape at talktalk.net>
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage

 

I wonder if anyone watching in Quality Check, if there is still such a thing at the BBC as there was on the fifth floor in the Pres area at TC in its halcyon days of John Palmer, Fred Smith, Trevor Betham, Algie Hales, Mick Puddick, Don Southgate, John Poslethwaite, and co?

 

Geoff





On 6 May 2023, at 18:13, Hugh Snape via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

?Yes, I watched SD via Freeview and heard no break up.

 

Hugh





On 6 May 2023, at 17:04, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

 

We were watching in Dorking from just before ten, on SD from the Mickleham transmitter, with no break-up that I was aware of, and it was on quite loud. But our daughter did say that she had tried HD before we arrived and gave up on it because of break-up, which she attributed to the weather which she says often makes their HD suffer. 

 

I think it was Clare Balding who said that all the bass drummers had earpieces with a countdown, so that they all moved off together, which was certainly the case. 

 

Mike G





On 6 May 2023, at 14:31, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

?According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back. 

 

Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv. 

 

Nick. 

 

Nick Rodger 

Cameraman (Retired) 
07971 007578 
nickrodger at mac.com <mailto:nickrodger at mac.com>  

Don?t blame me!! 
I voted Remain ?? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

 

I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?

John Nottage

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

 

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

 

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Sat May  6 17:34:56 2023
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2023 23:34:56 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <029b01d98055$888ae600$99a0b200$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <029b01d98055$888ae600$99a0b200$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B703147B-E609-44B2-81DA-CBD7312E1678@gmail.com>

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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sun May  7 01:49:11 2023
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 07:49:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <B703147B-E609-44B2-81DA-CBD7312E1678@gmail.com>
References: <029b01d98055$888ae600$99a0b200$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<B703147B-E609-44B2-81DA-CBD7312E1678@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F767FB53-F93B-40D4-9CBE-A316C9218D90@icloud.com>

I was watching HD off Crystal Palace and didn?t notice any break up. Did notice that Huw Edwards mentioned the Abbey bells ringing twice before we actully heard them when the king was leaving at the end.


> On 6 May 2023, at 23:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul,
> Thanks for that information but being simple minded myself, most of the technical stuff goes over my head. I thought stereo was just two channels, left and right but with the more sophisticated surround sound that I suppose home cinema viewers will be using nowadays (if that?s what you mean by 5.1) it requires more than that.
> We watch in HD on a modest 32inch screen in our fairly small living room with a Bose Sound Bar providing adequate picture and sound quality for our enjoyment. I thought of switching to SD when the break up of sound was proving annoying but didn?t think it would help if the sound feed was the same, not realising it wasn?t.
> I am amazed that for a Grade 1 broadcast, assuming that category still exists, that no-one was monitoring with a receiver to check that all was well, rather than adopting the attitude that, ?It?s alright leaving us.?
> I don?t know if any of the international viewers were affected but if so, it wasn?t the best advert for us as a world leader in Television production and technical quality, or has our crown already been lost in that respect?
> Geoff
> 
>> On 6 May 2023, at 21:01, Paul Thackray <paul at pgtmedia.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Hi Geoff,
>> Unfortunately , these days there are times when no one is listening in TX ! (Its just a play-out director & live announcer (Peak times only) )
>> Engineering is shared across a multitude of channels and different broadcasters.  Nothing like QC exists as far as I know.
>>  The other problem is quite a lot of different ?versions? of each feed. This is especially true if 5.1 surround sound is involved. On  a 5.1 sound show, the stereo on Sky, Freesat and VirginMedia is mixed down from the 5.1 in your Sky/Freeview/ Virgin home box. Freeview, SD Sky  and IPlayer is likely the stereo that leaves RedBee (TX) ? as a result more people are listening to the mix down of 5.1 for stereo than the true stereo (Which is what TX listen to) ? If the 5.1 is missing, but the show is flagged as 5.1, The SKY HD & VirginMedia viewers will hear silence on the Stereo , but RedBee (TX) will be listening to good stereo leaving them?. Its an absolute mine field (Bring back the days of simple!)
>>  Multiply this by a pile of different English regions and the Nations and soon becomes an issue of , when someone complains, you need to know what and how they are viewing and listening to try and track down where the issue might be.  Paul
>> Paul Thackray
>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>> 07802 243979
>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>  From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1
>> Sent: 06 May 2023 18:27
>> To: Hugh Snape <hughsnape at talktalk.net>
>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
>>  I wonder if anyone watching in Quality Check, if there is still such a thing at the BBC as there was on the fifth floor in the Pres area at TC in its halcyon days of John Palmer, Fred Smith, Trevor Betham, Algie Hales, Mick Puddick, Don Southgate, John Poslethwaite, and co?
>>  Geoff
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 May 2023, at 18:13, Hugh Snape via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> ?Yes, I watched SD via Freeview and heard no break up.
>>  Hugh
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 May 2023, at 17:04, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>  We were watching in Dorking from just before ten, on SD from the Mickleham transmitter, with no break-up that I was aware of, and it was on quite loud. But our daughter did say that she had tried HD before we arrived and gave up on it because of break-up, which she attributed to the weather which she says often makes their HD suffer. 
>>  I think it was Clare Balding who said that all the bass drummers had earpieces with a countdown, so that they all moved off together, which was certainly the case. 
>>  Mike G
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 May 2023, at 14:31, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> ?According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back. 
>>  Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv. 
>>  Nick. 
>>  Nick Rodger 
>> Cameraman (Retired) 
>> 07971 007578 
>> nickrodger at mac.com 
>> 
>> Don?t blame me!! 
>> I voted Remain ??          On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>  I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?
>> 
>> John Nottage
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>  -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>  -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


? 
Graeme Wall




From mibridge at mac.com  Sun May  7 02:24:45 2023
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 08:24:45 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
Message-ID: <24A561A2-F374-43FE-B5E1-6395C060A48C@mac.com>

?The IPS forum has a post from Dave Liquorice
that several newspaper sites have this quote about the drop outs:

A BBC Spokesperson said: ?We apologise that some viewers experienced  intermittent sound drop-out during The Coronation broadcast on BBC One.  This was due to an audio conversion issue from 5:1 surround sound to stereo that affected certain distribution services for the channel.?

Still pretty shocking that it goes unnoticed by the broadcaster - there must be an AI solution to the problem of monitoring output compared to input. 

Mike G


> On 7 May 2023, at 07:50, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?I was watching HD off Crystal Palace and didn?t notice any break up. Did notice that Huw Edwards mentioned the Abbey bells ringing twice before we actully heard them when the king was leaving at the end.
> 
> 
>> On 6 May 2023, at 23:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi Paul,
>> Thanks for that information but being simple minded myself, most of the technical stuff goes over my head. I thought stereo was just two channels, left and right but with the more sophisticated surround sound that I suppose home cinema viewers will be using nowadays (if that?s what you mean by 5.1) it requires more than that.
>> We watch in HD on a modest 32inch screen in our fairly small living room with a Bose Sound Bar providing adequate picture and sound quality for our enjoyment. I thought of switching to SD when the break up of sound was proving annoying but didn?t think it would help if the sound feed was the same, not realising it wasn?t.
>> I am amazed that for a Grade 1 broadcast, assuming that category still exists, that no-one was monitoring with a receiver to check that all was well, rather than adopting the attitude that, ?It?s alright leaving us.?
>> I don?t know if any of the international viewers were affected but if so, it wasn?t the best advert for us as a world leader in Television production and technical quality, or has our crown already been lost in that respect?
>> Geoff
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 21:01, Paul Thackray <paul at pgtmedia.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?Hi Geoff,
>>> Unfortunately , these days there are times when no one is listening in TX ! (Its just a play-out director & live announcer (Peak times only) )
>>> Engineering is shared across a multitude of channels and different broadcasters.  Nothing like QC exists as far as I know.
>>> The other problem is quite a lot of different ?versions? of each feed. This is especially true if 5.1 surround sound is involved. On  a 5.1 sound show, the stereo on Sky, Freesat and VirginMedia is mixed down from the 5.1 in your Sky/Freeview/ Virgin home box. Freeview, SD Sky  and IPlayer is likely the stereo that leaves RedBee (TX) ? as a result more people are listening to the mix down of 5.1 for stereo than the true stereo (Which is what TX listen to) ? If the 5.1 is missing, but the show is flagged as 5.1, The SKY HD & VirginMedia viewers will hear silence on the Stereo , but RedBee (TX) will be listening to good stereo leaving them?. Its an absolute mine field (Bring back the days of simple!)
>>> Multiply this by a pile of different English regions and the Nations and soon becomes an issue of , when someone complains, you need to know what and how they are viewing and listening to try and track down where the issue might be.  Paul
>>> Paul Thackray
>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>> 07802 243979
>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1
>>> Sent: 06 May 2023 18:27
>>> To: Hugh Snape <hughsnape at talktalk.net>
>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
>>> I wonder if anyone watching in Quality Check, if there is still such a thing at the BBC as there was on the fifth floor in the Pres area at TC in its halcyon days of John Palmer, Fred Smith, Trevor Betham, Algie Hales, Mick Puddick, Don Southgate, John Poslethwaite, and co?
>>> Geoff
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 18:13, Hugh Snape via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?Yes, I watched SD via Freeview and heard no break up.
>>> Hugh
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 17:04, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> We were watching in Dorking from just before ten, on SD from the Mickleham transmitter, with no break-up that I was aware of, and it was on quite loud. But our daughter did say that she had tried HD before we arrived and gave up on it because of break-up, which she attributed to the weather which she says often makes their HD suffer.
>>> I think it was Clare Balding who said that all the bass drummers had earpieces with a countdown, so that they all moved off together, which was certainly the case.
>>> Mike G
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 14:31, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back.
>>> Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv.
>>> Nick.
>>> Nick Rodger
>>> Cameraman (Retired)
>>> 07971 007578
>>> nickrodger at mac.com
>>> Don?t blame me!!
>>> I voted Remain ??          On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?
>>> John Nottage
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Sun May  7 03:21:57 2023
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 09:21:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <24A561A2-F374-43FE-B5E1-6395C060A48C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <3q7oi85djn224t7ie8mni1vh.1683447717177@pgtmedia.co.uk>

Hi Mike,
I am sure someone would have reported it, but once you know what's causing it what do you do?

At what point do you decide to abandon the 5.1 surround sound in favour of better stereo. (Assuming you have worked out that's the issue)

I reconised it because I have come across it before, but it's quite uncommon, so how many engineers could guess the source of the issue correctly?

I was working on Spanish football yesterday, so not involved in the Abbey)




Paul Thackray

?

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

+44 7802 243979

Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk

?

Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/



? Original Message ?


From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 7 May 2023 08:25
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Reply to: mibridge at mac.com
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage


?The IPS forum has a post from Dave Liquorice
that several newspaper sites have this quote about the drop outs:

A BBC Spokesperson said: ?We apologise that some viewers experienced? intermittent sound drop-out during The Coronation broadcast on BBC One.? This was due to an audio conversion issue from 5:1 surround sound to stereo that affected certain distribution services for the channel.?

Still pretty shocking that it goes unnoticed by the broadcaster - there must be an AI solution to the problem of monitoring output compared to input.

Mike G


> On 7 May 2023, at 07:50, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?I was watching HD off Crystal Palace and didn?t notice any break up. Did notice that Huw Edwards mentioned the Abbey bells ringing twice before we actully heard them when the king was leaving at the end.
>
>
>> On 6 May 2023, at 23:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi Paul,
>> Thanks for that information but being simple minded myself, most of the technical stuff goes over my head. I thought stereo was just two channels, left and right but with the more sophisticated surround sound that I suppose home cinema viewers will be using nowadays (if that?s what you mean by 5.1) it requires more than that.
>> We watch in HD on a modest 32inch screen in our fairly small living room with a Bose Sound Bar providing adequate picture and sound quality for our enjoyment. I thought of switching to SD when the break up of sound was proving annoying but didn?t think it would help if the sound feed was the same, not realising it wasn?t.
>> I am amazed that for a Grade 1 broadcast, assuming that category still exists, that no-one was monitoring with a receiver to check that all was well, rather than adopting the attitude that, ?It?s alright leaving us.?
>> I don?t know if any of the international viewers were affected but if so, it wasn?t the best advert for us as a world leader in Television production and technical quality, or has our crown already been lost in that respect?
>> Geoff
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 21:01, Paul Thackray <paul at pgtmedia.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?Hi Geoff,
>>> Unfortunately , these days there are times when no one is listening in TX ! (Its just a play-out director & live announcer (Peak times only) )
>>> Engineering is shared across a multitude of channels and different broadcasters.? Nothing like QC exists as far as I know.
>>> The other problem is quite a lot of different ?versions? of each feed. This is especially true if 5.1 surround sound is involved. On? a 5.1 sound show, the stereo on Sky, Freesat and VirginMedia is mixed down from the 5.1 in your Sky/Freeview/ Virgin home box. Freeview, SD Sky? and IPlayer is likely the stereo that leaves RedBee (TX) ? as a result more people are listening to the mix down of 5.1 for stereo than the true stereo (Which is what TX listen to) ? If the 5.1 is missing, but the show is flagged as 5.1, The SKY HD & VirginMedia viewers will hear silence on the Stereo , but RedBee (TX) will be listening to good stereo leaving them?. Its an absolute mine field (Bring back the days of simple!)
>>> Multiply this by a pile of different English regions and the Nations and soon becomes an issue of , when someone complains, you need to know what and how they are viewing and listening to try and track down where the issue might be.? Paul
>>> Paul Thackray
>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>> 07802 243979
>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>> Linkedin;?? http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1
>>> Sent: 06 May 2023 18:27
>>> To: Hugh Snape <hughsnape at talktalk.net>
>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
>>> I wonder if anyone watching in Quality Check, if there is still such a thing at the BBC as there was on the fifth floor in the Pres area at TC in its halcyon days of John Palmer, Fred Smith, Trevor Betham, Algie Hales, Mick Puddick, Don Southgate, John Poslethwaite, and co?
>>> Geoff
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 18:13, Hugh Snape via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?Yes, I watched SD via Freeview and heard no break up.
>>> Hugh
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 17:04, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> We were watching in Dorking from just before ten, on SD from the Mickleham transmitter, with no break-up that I was aware of, and it was on quite loud. But our daughter did say that she had tried HD before we arrived and gave up on it because of break-up, which she attributed to the weather which she says often makes their HD suffer.
>>> I think it was Clare Balding who said that all the bass drummers had earpieces with a countdown, so that they all moved off together, which was certainly the case.
>>> Mike G
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 14:31, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back.
>>> Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv.
>>> Nick.
>>> Nick Rodger
>>> Cameraman (Retired)
>>> 07971 007578
>>> nickrodger at mac.com
>>> Don?t blame me!!
>>> I voted Remain ??????????? On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?
>>> John Nottage
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
> ?
> Graeme Wall
>
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Sun May  7 03:54:04 2023
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 09:54:04 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <F767FB53-F93B-40D4-9CBE-A316C9218D90@icloud.com>
References: <029b01d98055$888ae600$99a0b200$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<B703147B-E609-44B2-81DA-CBD7312E1678@gmail.com>
	<F767FB53-F93B-40D4-9CBE-A316C9218D90@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <9a992626-9156-3e59-e995-85ec8c7964d8@gmail.com>

So was I, living in London. And did hear the glitches. Swapped over to 
FreeSat BBC1 HD and still there. Seemed to be worse towards the start of 
the broadcast.

On 07/05/2023 07:49, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote:
> I was watching HD off Crystal Palace and didn?t notice any break up. Did notice that Huw Edwards mentioned the Abbey bells ringing twice before we actully heard them when the king was leaving at the end.
> 
> 
>> On 6 May 2023, at 23:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>> Thanks for that information but being simple minded myself, most of the technical stuff goes over my head. I thought stereo was just two channels, left and right but with the more sophisticated surround sound that I suppose home cinema viewers will be using nowadays (if that?s what you mean by 5.1) it requires more than that.
>> We watch in HD on a modest 32inch screen in our fairly small living room with a Bose Sound Bar providing adequate picture and sound quality for our enjoyment. I thought of switching to SD when the break up of sound was proving annoying but didn?t think it would help if the sound feed was the same, not realising it wasn?t.
>> I am amazed that for a Grade 1 broadcast, assuming that category still exists, that no-one was monitoring with a receiver to check that all was well, rather than adopting the attitude that, ?It?s alright leaving us.?
>> I don?t know if any of the international viewers were affected but if so, it wasn?t the best advert for us as a world leader in Television production and technical quality, or has our crown already been lost in that respect?
>> Geoff
>>
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 21:01, Paul Thackray <paul at pgtmedia.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Hi Geoff,
>>> Unfortunately , these days there are times when no one is listening in TX ! (Its just a play-out director & live announcer (Peak times only) )
>>> Engineering is shared across a multitude of channels and different broadcasters.  Nothing like QC exists as far as I know.
>>>   The other problem is quite a lot of different ?versions? of each feed. This is especially true if 5.1 surround sound is involved. On  a 5.1 sound show, the stereo on Sky, Freesat and VirginMedia is mixed down from the 5.1 in your Sky/Freeview/ Virgin home box. Freeview, SD Sky  and IPlayer is likely the stereo that leaves RedBee (TX) ? as a result more people are listening to the mix down of 5.1 for stereo than the true stereo (Which is what TX listen to) ? If the 5.1 is missing, but the show is flagged as 5.1, The SKY HD & VirginMedia viewers will hear silence on the Stereo , but RedBee (TX) will be listening to good stereo leaving them?. Its an absolute mine field (Bring back the days of simple!)
>>>   Multiply this by a pile of different English regions and the Nations and soon becomes an issue of , when someone complains, you need to know what and how they are viewing and listening to try and track down where the issue might be.  Paul
>>> Paul Thackray
>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>> 07802 243979
>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>   From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1
>>> Sent: 06 May 2023 18:27
>>> To: Hugh Snape <hughsnape at talktalk.net>
>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
>>>   I wonder if anyone watching in Quality Check, if there is still such a thing at the BBC as there was on the fifth floor in the Pres area at TC in its halcyon days of John Palmer, Fred Smith, Trevor Betham, Algie Hales, Mick Puddick, Don Southgate, John Poslethwaite, and co?
>>>   Geoff
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 18:13, Hugh Snape via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?Yes, I watched SD via Freeview and heard no break up.
>>>   Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 17:04, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>   We were watching in Dorking from just before ten, on SD from the Mickleham transmitter, with no break-up that I was aware of, and it was on quite loud. But our daughter did say that she had tried HD before we arrived and gave up on it because of break-up, which she attributed to the weather which she says often makes their HD suffer.
>>>   I think it was Clare Balding who said that all the bass drummers had earpieces with a countdown, so that they all moved off together, which was certainly the case.
>>>   Mike G
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 14:31, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back.
>>>   Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv.
>>>   Nick.
>>>   Nick Rodger
>>> Cameraman (Retired)
>>> 07971 007578
>>> nickrodger at mac.com
>>>
>>> Don?t blame me!!
>>> I voted Remain ??          On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>   I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?
>>>
>>> John Nottage
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>   --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>   --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> ?
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun May  7 04:20:28 2023
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 10:20:28 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <9a992626-9156-3e59-e995-85ec8c7964d8@gmail.com>
References: <029b01d98055$888ae600$99a0b200$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<B703147B-E609-44B2-81DA-CBD7312E1678@gmail.com>
	<F767FB53-F93B-40D4-9CBE-A316C9218D90@icloud.com>
	<9a992626-9156-3e59-e995-85ec8c7964d8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5836042a-57e7-9607-346e-4d630a86a9a8@btinternet.com>

..... and so was I, even my wife noticed the drop-outs, as Dave says, 
worst early on. Overall a superb day for whoever did it - I only wish 
that I could have been in the Abbey for 'I Was Glad', it always brings 
tears to my eyes! My mother told me years ago that the older you get the 
closer your bladder gets to the eyes and I keep proving it to be true! 
Cheers, hic, Dave


From relong at btinternet.com  Sun May  7 05:10:24 2023
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 11:10:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coverage of the Coronation
In-Reply-To: <61759E23-0493-4266-8D0C-6CD33B438B98@gmail.com>
References: <61759E23-0493-4266-8D0C-6CD33B438B98@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DD7E3607-39DD-4C65-BA9A-D248F2F7536A@btinternet.com>

It seemed to happen every 20 minutes with the same pattern 
Doubt it came from the event itself more likely from a huge distribution system
Shame no one seemed to notice it
Does anyone listen to output now?
The coverage was quite superb 
Many double radios , how did they cope with the costume changes
Were they sowed in ?
Wonderful music mix nicely blended with narrative 
First class procession coverage
The 4,000 voices for  the hip hip hooray toast were eerily and emotionally potent
Well done all
Roger
Sent from my iPhone

> On 6 May 2023, at 15:00, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Just wondering what caused the occasional breaks in sound during the ceremony in the Abbey and outside afterwards, assuming it wasn?t just a fault with our receiver - and what sounded like talkback break-through during the service, unless it was from outside interference?
> Geoff Hawkes
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun May  7 05:18:46 2023
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (pat.heigham)
Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 11:18:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
Message-ID: <jxlggba52awufc8yg3ycyqno.1683453051101@email.android.com>

I had converted friends dining room into a cinema for an HD projector & 6ft screen the source being the HDMI o/p of a DVD recorder tuned to Reigate, BBC HD ch101, the audio fed to a Bose Sound bar by optical cable from an HDMI splitter. Noticed the glitches but thought it was down to my end! Better to know it was a TX problem, but sad to realise today's lack of quality monitoring.
What about all those radio mics! None left in any rental company?
Hell of a rig!
Pat H

On 6 May 2023, at 17:06, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

We were watching in Dorking from just before ten, on SD from the Mickleham transmitter, with no break-up that I was aware of, and it was on quite loud. But our daughter did say that she had tried HD before we arrived and gave up on it because of break-up, which she attributed to the weather which she says often makes their HD suffer.?


I think it was Clare Balding who said that all the bass drummers had earpieces with a countdown, so that they all moved off together, which was certainly the case.?


Mike G


On 6 May 2023, at 14:31, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back.?


Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv.?


Nick.?


Nick Rodger?

Cameraman (Retired)?
07971 007578?
nickrodger at mac.com?

Don?t blame me!!?
I voted Remain ???










On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?

John Nottage

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun May  7 07:33:25 2023
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 13:33:25 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?b?RndkOiBSZW5ld8Ktwq3CrcKtwq3CrcKtwq3CrcKtwq0=?=
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..and still they keep trying! Cheers, Dave


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We?????????????? were??????????????? una??????????????ble?????????????? 
to????????????????? renew?????????????? your???????????? 
TV??????????????????? Licen?????????????ce????????????? by????????????? 
Dir????????????????ect???????????????? Deb??????????????it.??????????????
Cust??????????????omer?????????????? 
Ple?????????????????ase????????????????? 
kee????????????????????p???????????????????? thi???????????s??????????? 
emai?????????????l????????????? safe?????????????,????????????? 
as???????????????????? it???????????????? 
tell?????????????????s????????????????? yo????????????u???????????? 
how??????????????? to??????????????????? updat??????????e 
you??????????r?????????? 
li?????????????ce?????????????nc?????????????e????????????? 
deta???????????????ils.???????????????
????????????????? updat???????????e??????????? 
you??????????????r?????????????? 
co?????????????????nt?????????????????ac?????????????????t,?????????????????
?????????????????? tell??????????? us?????????????????? 
yo????????????????u'????????????????ve???????????????? 
mov??????????????????ed?????????????????? hom??????????????e,??????????????
Your???????????? licen???????????ce??????????? 
fe??????????????????e?????????????????? 
he?????????????lp?????????????s????????????? 
ke??????????????????ep?????????????????? your?????????????????? 
old?????????????????? favou?????????????????rites????????????????? 
on???????????????????? air????????????????,???????????????? 
and????????????? brin????????????????g 
ne????????????????w???????????????? 
fa???????????????????vo???????????????????ur???????????????????it???????????????????es??????????????????? 
to??????????????? life???????????????.???????????????

*Click???????????????? here?????????????????? to 
r???????????????????enew??????????????????? your??????????????????? 
li????????????????ce????????????????nc????????????????e???????????????? 
<https://cyberfeed.pl/kajfa09da.htm>*

All???????????????????? Rig????????????????????hts???????????????????? 
Rese????????????rved???????????? ????????????


From alanaudio at me.com  Sun May  7 08:41:27 2023
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 14:41:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?b?RndkOiBSZW5ld8Ktwq3CrcKtwq3CrcKtwq3CrcKtwq0=?=
 =?utf-8?b?wq3CrcKtIHlvdXLCrcKtwq3CrcKtwq3CrcKtwq3CrcKtwq0gVFbCrcKtwq0=?=
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Message-ID: <F3808DE7-737F-448F-8852-6D72D71D4784@me.com>

I had that one recently too.  The immediate giveaway is that it didn?t address me by name, whereas the official TV licence reminder does.  The other thing was that I happen to know that mine runs out in November, due to when we moved into the house, so May is much too soon.

We have our online calendar programmed with repeating events showing when payments are due - even those made automatically by DD. It makes it easy to be sure that we are not frivolously spending money which needs to be spent elsewhere. The calendar also reminds about regular tasks such as cleaning the cooker extractor filters, re-treating the oak worktops or booking an MOT a month before it runs out.  There are even reminders years into the distance to renew passports long before they expire. The computer never forgets, while I am all too likely to forget.

Alan


> On 7 May 2023, at 13:33, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?..and still they keep trying! Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
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> 
> We?????????????? were??????????????? una??????????????ble?????????????? to????????????????? renew?????????????? your???????????? TV??????????????????? Licen?????????????ce????????????? by????????????? Dir????????????????ect???????????????? Deb??????????????it.??????????????
> Cust??????????????omer?????????????? Ple?????????????????ase????????????????? kee????????????????????p???????????????????? thi???????????s??????????? emai?????????????l????????????? safe?????????????,????????????? as???????????????????? it???????????????? tell?????????????????s????????????????? yo????????????u???????????? how??????????????? to??????????????????? updat??????????e you??????????r?????????? li?????????????ce?????????????nc?????????????e????????????? deta???????????????ils.???????????????
> ????????????????? updat???????????e??????????? you??????????????r?????????????? co?????????????????nt?????????????????ac?????????????????t,?????????????????
> ?????????????????? tell??????????? us?????????????????? yo????????????????u'????????????????ve???????????????? mov??????????????????ed?????????????????? hom??????????????e,??????????????
> Your???????????? licen???????????ce??????????? fe??????????????????e?????????????????? he?????????????lp?????????????s????????????? ke??????????????????ep?????????????????? your?????????????????? old?????????????????? favou?????????????????rites????????????????? on???????????????????? air????????????????,???????????????? and????????????? brin????????????????g ne????????????????w???????????????? fa???????????????????vo???????????????????ur???????????????????it???????????????????es??????????????????? to??????????????? life???????????????.???????????????
> 
> *Click???????????????? here?????????????????? to r???????????????????enew??????????????????? your??????????????????? li????????????????ce????????????????nc????????????????e???????????????? <https://cyberfeed.pl/kajfa09da.htm>*
> 
> All???????????????????? Rig????????????????????hts???????????????????? Rese????????????rved???????????? ????????????
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alawrance1 at me.com  Sun May  7 08:54:00 2023
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 14:54:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <jxlggba52awufc8yg3ycyqno.1683453051101@email.android.com>
References: <jxlggba52awufc8yg3ycyqno.1683453051101@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <D992A852-E419-4A50-ADC8-A54BEDAB740C@me.com>

We watched nearly all of it on iPlayer from an Apple TV to HDMI splitter and to Quad  Vena and KEF 104s, and didn't detect any dropout.

The B&O Play tells me its HD from the Apple, but I can't tell if that's what I'm seeing, is it being fiddled with in the the TV?  And is that what the Apple is producing? (the only other option on the caption on screen is 'CC'. No idea what that means).

All in all a fine performance from all concerned, although it's difficult to take a duff shot of stuff like this.
Sound excellent, too, and like everyone else I appreciated the continuity of all tha bands playing when there was a shot change.

Bouquets  to all concerned, anyway.

  Shot of the show?  That overhead shot of the transept in the Abbey - truly breathtaking, quite magnificent.


Alasdair Lawrance
alawrance1 at me.com

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.










> On 7 May 2023, at 11:18, pat.heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I had converted friends dining room into a cinema for an HD projector & 6ft screen the source being the HDMI o/p of a DVD recorder tuned to Reigate, BBC HD ch101, the audio fed to a Bose Sound bar by optical cable from an HDMI splitter. Noticed the glitches but thought it was down to my end! Better to know it was a TX problem, but sad to realise today's lack of quality monitoring.
> What about all those radio mics! None left in any rental company?
> Hell of a rig!
> Pat H
> 
> 
> 
> On 6 May 2023, at 17:06, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
> 
> We were watching in Dorking from just before ten, on SD from the Mickleham transmitter, with no break-up that I was aware of, and it was on quite loud. But our daughter did say that she had tried HD before we arrived and gave up on it because of break-up, which she attributed to the weather which she says often makes their HD suffer. 
> 
> I think it was Clare Balding who said that all the bass drummers had earpieces with a countdown, so that they all moved off together, which was certainly the case. 
> 
> Mike G
> 
>> On 6 May 2023, at 14:31, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> ?According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back. 
>> 
>> Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv. 
>> 
>> Nick. 
>> 
>> Nick Rodger 
>> Cameraman (Retired) 
>> 07971 007578 
>> nickrodger at mac.com <mailto:nickrodger at mac.com> 
>> 
>> Don?t blame me!! 
>> I voted Remain ?? 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?
>> 
>> John Nottage
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sun May  7 09:53:39 2023
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 15:53:39 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coverage of the Coronation
In-Reply-To: <DD7E3607-39DD-4C65-BA9A-D248F2F7536A@btinternet.com>
References: <61759E23-0493-4266-8D0C-6CD33B438B98@gmail.com>
	<DD7E3607-39DD-4C65-BA9A-D248F2F7536A@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <fe86670b-b843-d424-966e-1e4b922cd8d1@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 07/05/2023 11:10, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
> It seemed to happen every 20 minutes with the same pattern

I didn't notice any drop-outs on a basic SD, stereo feed.... but then I 
wasn't paying a great deal of attention.

Regular patterns of that sort suggest a piece of unlocked digital gear - 
the free-running stuff gradually drifts and has to jump when a buffer 
empties or runs out of space. Trying to analyse which bit of gear is 
running free in a complex network - one that probably has spread kit 
across the network too, rather than having it in one place - is not the 
simplest of problems. On most checks it seems fine - something is coming 
out of the pipe - but it is plesiochronous (look it up), rather than 
truly synchronous.

A great many data network systems can run in this fashion, because the 
catch up instant can be hidden, but sadly that rarely works with 
broadcast sound. Hence the data linking has to marshalled into true 
(fixed number of bytes per picture frame) synchronicity to prevent 
intermittent clicks and holes.

Chris Woolf




From peter.neill at icloud.com  Sun May  7 10:14:46 2023
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 16:14:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coverage of the Coronation
In-Reply-To: <fe86670b-b843-d424-966e-1e4b922cd8d1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <fe86670b-b843-d424-966e-1e4b922cd8d1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CB5E670D-77F2-4254-80B7-FA126BAA0942@icloud.com>

Apparently it was HD only. 

Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. 

> On 7 May 2023, at 15:54, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
>> On 07/05/2023 11:10, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>> It seemed to happen every 20 minutes with the same pattern
> 
> I didn't notice any drop-outs on a basic SD, stereo feed.... but then I wasn't paying a great deal of attention.
> 
> Regular patterns of that sort suggest a piece of unlocked digital gear - the free-running stuff gradually drifts and has to jump when a buffer empties or runs out of space. Trying to analyse which bit of gear is running free in a complex network - one that probably has spread kit across the network too, rather than having it in one place - is not the simplest of problems. On most checks it seems fine - something is coming out of the pipe - but it is plesiochronous (look it up), rather than truly synchronous.
> 
> A great many data network systems can run in this fashion, because the catch up instant can be hidden, but sadly that rarely works with broadcast sound. Hence the data linking has to marshalled into true (fixed number of bytes per picture frame) synchronicity to prevent intermittent clicks and holes.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From hughsnape at talktalk.net  Sun May  7 11:23:23 2023
From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 17:23:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <D992A852-E419-4A50-ADC8-A54BEDAB740C@me.com>
References: <jxlggba52awufc8yg3ycyqno.1683453051101@email.android.com>
	<D992A852-E419-4A50-ADC8-A54BEDAB740C@me.com>
Message-ID: <0E45F593-F0C2-415B-B036-72FCED51EDC4@talktalk.net>

So far as I?m concerned the sound was absolutely excellent and as a rather lowly ex OB sound supervisor I can only marvel at what was achieved.

There is quite a bit of interesting discussion from those actually involved in the broadcast in the Facebook group ?I take pictures of television studios? https://www.facebook.com/groups/411248849080553/?hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen&multi_permalinks=2132101216995299 <https://www.facebook.com/groups/411248849080553/?hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen&multi_permalinks=2132101216995299> which is informative and very interesting.

Hugh Snape 

> On 7 May 2023, at 14:54, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> We watched nearly all of it on iPlayer from an Apple TV to HDMI splitter and to Quad  Vena and KEF 104s, and didn't detect any dropout.
> 
> The B&O Play tells me its HD from the Apple, but I can't tell if that's what I'm seeing, is it being fiddled with in the the TV?  And is that what the Apple is producing? (the only other option on the caption on screen is 'CC'. No idea what that means).
> 
> All in all a fine performance from all concerned, although it's difficult to take a duff shot of stuff like this.
> Sound excellent, too, and like everyone else I appreciated the continuity of all tha bands playing when there was a shot change.
> 
> Bouquets  to all concerned, anyway.
> 
>   Shot of the show?  That overhead shot of the transept in the Abbey - truly breathtaking, quite magnificent.
> 
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> alawrance1 at me.com <mailto:alawrance1 at me.com>
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 7 May 2023, at 11:18, pat.heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> I had converted friends dining room into a cinema for an HD projector & 6ft screen the source being the HDMI o/p of a DVD recorder tuned to Reigate, BBC HD ch101, the audio fed to a Bose Sound bar by optical cable from an HDMI splitter. Noticed the glitches but thought it was down to my end! Better to know it was a TX problem, but sad to realise today's lack of quality monitoring.
>> What about all those radio mics! None left in any rental company?
>> Hell of a rig!
>> Pat H
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 May 2023, at 17:06, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> We were watching in Dorking from just before ten, on SD from the Mickleham transmitter, with no break-up that I was aware of, and it was on quite loud. But our daughter did say that she had tried HD before we arrived and gave up on it because of break-up, which she attributed to the weather which she says often makes their HD suffer. 
>> 
>> I think it was Clare Balding who said that all the bass drummers had earpieces with a countdown, so that they all moved off together, which was certainly the case. 
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 14:31, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back. 
>>> 
>>> Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv. 
>>> 
>>> Nick. 
>>> 
>>> Nick Rodger 
>>> Cameraman (Retired) 
>>> 07971 007578 
>>> nickrodger at mac.com <mailto:nickrodger at mac.com> 
>>> 
>>> Don?t blame me!! 
>>> I voted Remain ?? 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?
>>> 
>>> John Nottage
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sun May  7 15:50:52 2023
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 21:50:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
Message-ID: <E24C3C24-5917-476D-905F-4F46DE7B7C3E@zero51.force9.co.uk>

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From barry-wilkinson at sky.com  Sun May  7 16:12:07 2023
From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 22:12:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <E24C3C24-5917-476D-905F-4F46DE7B7C3E@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <E24C3C24-5917-476D-905F-4F46DE7B7C3E@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3385C5F1-2190-4CFF-B12C-36DF86F27856@sky.com>

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From alawrance1 at me.com  Sun May  7 16:26:57 2023
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2023 22:26:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <3385C5F1-2190-4CFF-B12C-36DF86F27856@sky.com>
References: <3385C5F1-2190-4CFF-B12C-36DF86F27856@sky.com>
Message-ID: <688B30E7-81A7-4AC4-9930-D511700BA231@me.com>

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From mibridge at mac.com  Mon May  8 02:24:24 2023
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 08:24:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <688B30E7-81A7-4AC4-9930-D511700BA231@me.com>
References: <688B30E7-81A7-4AC4-9930-D511700BA231@me.com>
Message-ID: <F5CC99CB-27B9-4908-A50A-999D9F9DEC9B@mac.com>

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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Mon May  8 02:41:34 2023
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 08:41:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <F5CC99CB-27B9-4908-A50A-999D9F9DEC9B@mac.com>
References: <688B30E7-81A7-4AC4-9930-D511700BA231@me.com>
	<F5CC99CB-27B9-4908-A50A-999D9F9DEC9B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAA0HHB1AKABoGOt1i8=TOTGmXV4uW+cM=Px9eeqaHxcDq49T0w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
We watched the Coronation and the Concert with the same setup - Freeview
channel 101 BBC South HD and an LG sound bar.

No dropouts on sound nor any video problems on the  Concert, but like
others had sound dropout and problems in the Coronation. Yes, the sound was
bass-light on the Concert but were there that many instruments generating a
bass ?? (OK, not a sound person).

We were amazed by the Concert camerawork - much of it seemed to be from
drones ( no sight of a crane ) but the pictures were rock steady, even the
swooping panning shots were steady in execution - so much for the wobbly
cam brigade! Those shots were steadier that steady-cam shots!

We were blown away by the light display from the 1000 drones - the whale ?
rising out of the sea for example!  Drones are no longer those difficult to
control RC things!!!

Best regards Alec

Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections...

On Mon, 8 May 2023, 08:25 Mike Giles via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Was this, I ask myself, a case of duff sound?
>
> It was totally bass light during the many significant audio drop-outs,
> with accompanying frozen or disrupted frames!
>
> I didn?t experience the audio problems during the coronation as we were on
> SD, but we watched the concert on HD from CP, so was it the same issue?
> Several of the problems from Windsor struck me as being related to
> radio-cameras.
>
> Mike G
>
> On 7 May 2023, at 22:27, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?Didn't watch it all, but yes, very thin audio.
>
> Alasdair Lawrance
>
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>
>
>
> On 7 May 2023, at 22:12, B Wilkinson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?I am watching from a recording on a relatively expensive AVR based system
> with a sub for bass.
> I totally agree.
> A very wimpy sound, no welly at all and no excuse for that with all the
> technology available.
> Whatever happened to bass?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 7 May 2023, at 21:51, Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?I shall cast the first stone.
> The Coronation concert sound is so bass light. No welly at all. Lovely
> visuals now its dark.
> Peter Fox
>
> On 7 May 2023, at 17:23, Hugh Snape via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?So far as I?m concerned the sound was absolutely excellent and as a
> rather lowly ex OB sound supervisor I can only marvel at what was achieved.
>
> There is quite a bit of interesting discussion from those actually
> involved in the broadcast in the Facebook group ?I take pictures of
> television studios?
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/411248849080553/?hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen&multi_permalinks=2132101216995299 which
> is informative and very interesting.
>
> Hugh Snape
>
> On 7 May 2023, at 14:54, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> We watched nearly all of it on iPlayer from an Apple TV to HDMI splitter
> and to Quad  Vena and KEF 104s, and didn't detect any dropout.
>
> The B&O Play tells me its HD from the Apple, but I can't tell if that's
> what I'm seeing, is it being fiddled with in the the TV?  And is that what
> the Apple is producing? (the only other option on the caption on screen is
> 'CC'. No idea what that means).
>
> All in all a fine performance from all concerned, although it's difficult
> to take a duff shot of stuff like this.
> Sound excellent, too, and like everyone else I appreciated the continuity
> of all tha bands playing when there was a shot change.
>
> Bouquets  to all concerned, anyway.
>
>   Shot of the show?  That overhead shot of the transept in the Abbey -
> truly breathtaking, quite magnificent.
>
>
> Alasdair Lawrance
> alawrance1 at me.com
>
>
> *Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7 May 2023, at 11:18, pat.heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> I had converted friends dining room into a cinema for an HD projector &
> 6ft screen the source being the HDMI o/p of a DVD recorder tuned to
> Reigate, BBC HD ch101, the audio fed to a Bose Sound bar by optical cable
> from an HDMI splitter. Noticed the glitches but thought it was down to my
> end! Better to know it was a TX problem, but sad to realise today's lack of
> quality monitoring.
> What about all those radio mics! None left in any rental company?
> Hell of a rig!
> Pat H
>
>
> On 6 May 2023, at 17:06, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
> We were watching in Dorking from just before ten, on SD from the Mickleham
> transmitter, with no break-up that I was aware of, and it was on quite
> loud. But our daughter did say that she had tried HD before we arrived and
> gave up on it because of break-up, which she attributed to the weather
> which she says often makes their HD suffer.
>
> I think it was Clare Balding who said that all the bass drummers had
> earpieces with a countdown, so that they all moved off together, which was
> certainly the case.
>
> Mike G
>
> On 6 May 2023, at 14:31, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some
> kind of talk~back.
>
> Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it
> my tv.
>
> Nick.
>
> Nick Rodger
> Cameraman (Retired)
> 07971 007578
> nickrodger at mac.com
>
> Don?t blame me!!
> I voted Remain ??
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre
> Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started
> together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all
> the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the
> sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement
> on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn:
> excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very
> well done. Anyone know who did it?
>
> John Nottage
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Mon May  8 02:58:49 2023
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 08:58:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <CAA0HHB1AKABoGOt1i8=TOTGmXV4uW+cM=Px9eeqaHxcDq49T0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA0HHB1AKABoGOt1i8=TOTGmXV4uW+cM=Px9eeqaHxcDq49T0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1FF7CFC3-972C-4856-82FA-9D7787EE4EF9@zero51.force9.co.uk>

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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Mon May  8 02:58:49 2023
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 08:58:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <CAA0HHB1AKABoGOt1i8=TOTGmXV4uW+cM=Px9eeqaHxcDq49T0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA0HHB1AKABoGOt1i8=TOTGmXV4uW+cM=Px9eeqaHxcDq49T0w@mail.gmail.com>
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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Mon May  8 03:13:00 2023
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 09:13:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <1FF7CFC3-972C-4856-82FA-9D7787EE4EF9@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <1FF7CFC3-972C-4856-82FA-9D7787EE4EF9@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <35A71070-ED02-47E5-9567-2CA18307DA0C@zero51.force9.co.uk>

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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Mon May  8 03:17:27 2023
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 09:17:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <CAA0HHB1AKABoGOt1i8=TOTGmXV4uW+cM=Px9eeqaHxcDq49T0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <688B30E7-81A7-4AC4-9930-D511700BA231@me.com><F5CC99CB-27B9-4908-A50A-999D9F9DEC9B@mac.com>
	<CAA0HHB1AKABoGOt1i8=TOTGmXV4uW+cM=Px9eeqaHxcDq49T0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4972EEC9067C45638C21FA3BB3D67BF8@Gigabyte>

I think most of the aerial tracking shots in the concert were from those remote (camera persons too heavy to be slung?) cameras suspended on cables stretched across the site ? possibly on the loudspeaker etc towers - across the site. At various times, they could be seen up in the air.
Loads of the HH tracking radio linked stuff around the stage was very good ? thank goodness for steadycams.
And I wonder how many radio mics were involved. At one stage a whole choir were using them as their positioning on the rear steps obviously made fixed mics impossible.
I did think the little inserts between acts were very good and the re-rigging of stage facilities was amazingly quick and never seen.

Mike

From: Alec Bray via Tech1 
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2023 8:41 AM
To: Mike Giles 
Cc: Tech Ops 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage

Hi, 
We watched the Coronation and the Concert with the same setup - Freeview channel 101 BBC South HD and an LG sound bar.

No dropouts on sound nor any video problems on the  Concert, but like others had sound dropout and problems in the Coronation. Yes, the sound was bass-light on the Concert but were there that many instruments generating a bass ?? (OK, not a sound person).

We were amazed by the Concert camerawork - much of it seemed to be from drones ( no sight of a crane ) but the pictures were rock steady, even the swooping panning shots were steady in execution - so much for the wobbly cam brigade! Those shots were steadier that steady-cam shots!

We were blown away by the light display from the 1000 drones - the whale ? rising out of the sea for example!  Drones are no longer those difficult to control RC things!!!

Best regards Alec 
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Mon May  8 03:19:44 2023
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 09:19:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <35A71070-ED02-47E5-9567-2CA18307DA0C@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <1FF7CFC3-972C-4856-82FA-9D7787EE4EF9@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<35A71070-ED02-47E5-9567-2CA18307DA0C@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA0HHB2=RM5UiKpAAZafvWLoXfQ=aanrq68KA4mX1jA2K590vQ@mail.gmail.com>

Aha, Peter, that could be it!  I noticed something dark, looking like two
rectangles of different sizes one above the other, behind and above the
back of the stage.
Best regards Alec


Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections...

On Mon, 8 May 2023, 09:13 Peter Fox, <peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk> wrote:

> Alec, I am not speaking ftom experience as my last twenty years or so was
> ped and tripod operating on East Enders! But my best guess for some of
> those smooth straight line shots, rather than arcing technocrane style, was
> an adaptation of wire slung, football cameras?
> Peter Fox
>
> On 8 May 2023, at 08:58, Peter Fox <peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?I think uniformed side drummers count as bass generators. Without a video
> monitor you would not have known they were there!
> Maybe all that RF stuff, cameras, drones talkback, mics,   was using up
> all the bandwith? Just Asking. I had forgotten about massed drones when
> wondering how those aerial cartoons were done. doh!
>
> Peter Fox
>
> On 8 May 2023, at 08:42, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?
> Hi,
> We watched the Coronation and the Concert with the same setup - Freeview
> channel 101 BBC South HD and an LG sound bar.
>
> No dropouts on sound nor any video problems on the  Concert, but like
> others had sound dropout and problems in the Coronation. Yes, the sound was
> bass-light on the Concert but were there that many instruments generating a
> bass ?? (OK, not a sound person).
>
> We were amazed by the Concert camerawork - much of it seemed to be from
> drones ( no sight of a crane ) but the pictures were rock steady, even the
> swooping panning shots were steady in execution - so much for the wobbly
> cam brigade! Those shots were steadier that steady-cam shots!
>
> We were blown away by the light display from the 1000 drones - the whale
> ? rising out of the sea for example!  Drones are no longer those difficult
> to control RC things!!!
>
> Best regards Alec
>
> Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections...
>
> On Mon, 8 May 2023, 08:25 Mike Giles via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Was this, I ask myself, a case of duff sound?
>>
>> It was totally bass light during the many significant audio drop-outs,
>> with accompanying frozen or disrupted frames!
>>
>> I didn?t experience the audio problems during the coronation as we were
>> on SD, but we watched the concert on HD from CP, so was it the same issue?
>> Several of the problems from Windsor struck me as being related to
>> radio-cameras.
>>
>> Mike G
>>
>> On 7 May 2023, at 22:27, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <
>> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Didn't watch it all, but yes, very thin audio.
>>
>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>
>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7 May 2023, at 22:12, B Wilkinson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?I am watching from a recording on a relatively expensive AVR based
>> system with a sub for bass.
>> I totally agree.
>> A very wimpy sound, no welly at all and no excuse for that with all the
>> technology available.
>> Whatever happened to bass?
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 7 May 2023, at 21:51, Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?I shall cast the first stone.
>> The Coronation concert sound is so bass light. No welly at all. Lovely
>> visuals now its dark.
>> Peter Fox
>>
>> On 7 May 2023, at 17:23, Hugh Snape via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?So far as I?m concerned the sound was absolutely excellent and as a
>> rather lowly ex OB sound supervisor I can only marvel at what was achieved.
>>
>> There is quite a bit of interesting discussion from those actually
>> involved in the broadcast in the Facebook group ?I take pictures of
>> television studios?
>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/411248849080553/?hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen&multi_permalinks=2132101216995299 which
>> is informative and very interesting.
>>
>> Hugh Snape
>>
>> On 7 May 2023, at 14:54, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <
>> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> We watched nearly all of it on iPlayer from an Apple TV to HDMI splitter
>> and to Quad  Vena and KEF 104s, and didn't detect any dropout.
>>
>> The B&O Play tells me its HD from the Apple, but I can't tell if that's
>> what I'm seeing, is it being fiddled with in the the TV?  And is that what
>> the Apple is producing? (the only other option on the caption on screen is
>> 'CC'. No idea what that means).
>>
>> All in all a fine performance from all concerned, although it's difficult
>> to take a duff shot of stuff like this.
>> Sound excellent, too, and like everyone else I appreciated the continuity
>> of all tha bands playing when there was a shot change.
>>
>> Bouquets  to all concerned, anyway.
>>
>>   Shot of the show?  That overhead shot of the transept in the Abbey -
>> truly breathtaking, quite magnificent.
>>
>>
>> Alasdair Lawrance
>> alawrance1 at me.com
>>
>>
>> *Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7 May 2023, at 11:18, pat.heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I had converted friends dining room into a cinema for an HD projector &
>> 6ft screen the source being the HDMI o/p of a DVD recorder tuned to
>> Reigate, BBC HD ch101, the audio fed to a Bose Sound bar by optical cable
>> from an HDMI splitter. Noticed the glitches but thought it was down to my
>> end! Better to know it was a TX problem, but sad to realise today's lack of
>> quality monitoring.
>> What about all those radio mics! None left in any rental company?
>> Hell of a rig!
>> Pat H
>>
>>
>> On 6 May 2023, at 17:06, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> We were watching in Dorking from just before ten, on SD from the
>> Mickleham transmitter, with no break-up that I was aware of, and it was on
>> quite loud. But our daughter did say that she had tried HD before we
>> arrived and gave up on it because of break-up, which she attributed to the
>> weather which she says often makes their HD suffer.
>>
>> I think it was Clare Balding who said that all the bass drummers had
>> earpieces with a countdown, so that they all moved off together, which was
>> certainly the case.
>>
>> Mike G
>>
>> On 6 May 2023, at 14:31, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some
>> kind of talk~back.
>>
>> Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it
>> my tv.
>>
>> Nick.
>>
>> Nick Rodger
>> Cameraman (Retired)
>> 07971 007578
>> nickrodger at mac.com
>>
>> Don?t blame me!!
>> I voted Remain ??
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre
>> Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started
>> together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all
>> the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the
>> sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement
>> on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn:
>> excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very
>> well done. Anyone know who did it?
>>
>> John Nottage
>>
>> --
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Mon May  8 04:05:05 2023
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 10:05:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <CAA0HHB2=RM5UiKpAAZafvWLoXfQ=aanrq68KA4mX1jA2K590vQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1FF7CFC3-972C-4856-82FA-9D7787EE4EF9@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<35A71070-ED02-47E5-9567-2CA18307DA0C@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<CAA0HHB2=RM5UiKpAAZafvWLoXfQ=aanrq68KA4mX1jA2K590vQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2029491c-82a5-7bb5-5dc1-f49715635a95@gmail.com>

Hi,

I have had a VERY QUICK look at iPlayer to see if I could spot the 
camera that swooped down from the back of the stage.

Peter suggested an adaptation of wire slung, football cameras.

Could this be it??



Trouble is, I don't know what I should be looking for!!?? As regards 
modern Television technology, I am just an interested onlooker....

very best regards,

Alec

-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502
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From tonynuttall at me.com  Mon May  8 04:28:01 2023
From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2023 09:28:01 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Helps get rig of Sat Trucks:- Private 5G
Message-ID: <b31dd3aa-ac84-4f21-89a3-857ad3a74796@me.com>

Not only helps to get rid of Sat Trucks but also helps?with "Click Track" to keep Band Sound in pic sync. Welldone Reasearch Dept:-https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2023-05-5g-non-public-network-coronation?fbclid=IwAR0Ld8NXfoGcmwdPDYVHAQ0jKFjcbkDdSKaZRD8kwc_9xa_w16rJ5rBUqH0Tony N in the Wilds of Cumbria
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From david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk  Mon May  8 04:44:00 2023
From: david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk (David Taylor)
Date: Mon, 08 May 2023 10:44:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Helps get rig of Sat Trucks:- Private 5G
In-Reply-To: <b31dd3aa-ac84-4f21-89a3-857ad3a74796@me.com>
References: <b31dd3aa-ac84-4f21-89a3-857ad3a74796@me.com>
Message-ID: <9e620629-24db-4d34-a83f-914800731d20@davidtaylorsound.co.uk>

Andy James, who led the sound team, has posted about the coverage on the Facebook 'I post pictures of TV Studios'website.

On 8 May 2023, 10:28, at 10:28, William Nuttall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>Not only helps to get rid of Sat Trucks but also helps?with "Click
>Track" to keep Band Sound in pic sync. Welldone Reasearch
>Dept:-https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2023-05-5g-non-public-network-coronation?fbclid=IwAR0Ld8NXfoGcmwdPDYVHAQ0jKFjcbkDdSKaZRD8kwc_9xa_w16rJ5rBUqH0Tony
>N in the Wilds of Cumbria
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>-- 
>Tech1 mailing list
>Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Mon May  8 04:49:47 2023
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 10:49:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <2029491c-82a5-7bb5-5dc1-f49715635a95@gmail.com>
References: <2029491c-82a5-7bb5-5dc1-f49715635a95@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3D84EAA0-899E-4012-BD6D-FDA8424C4F44@me.com>

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From barry-wilkinson at sky.com  Mon May  8 05:31:18 2023
From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 11:31:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <2029491c-82a5-7bb5-5dc1-f49715635a95@gmail.com>
References: <2029491c-82a5-7bb5-5dc1-f49715635a95@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A5E0DF26-24B5-4B53-92C3-841E488F86FE@sky.com>

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From alanaudio at me.com  Mon May  8 05:32:14 2023
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 11:32:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <3D84EAA0-899E-4012-BD6D-FDA8424C4F44@me.com>
References: <3D84EAA0-899E-4012-BD6D-FDA8424C4F44@me.com>
Message-ID: <CB0D0D16-EDC9-42BF-8956-30B84B20CC17@me.com>

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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Mon May  8 05:58:10 2023
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 11:58:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MOTD 1974
Message-ID: <ffa41f63-aca6-8c0b-f8ca-e0ae37dca562@gmail.com>

HI all

(as a change from CIIIR etc)

I came across this clip - and I had hot seen it before.? Its about 
setting up for and putting on air "Match of the Day" from 1974.

http://tech-ops.co.uk/next/motd-1974/

I am sure many of you would be able to comment on this!


Apologies to Alan:? as this is a large file, I have put it on the 
Tech-Ops web site.? No intention of "treading on your toes" -? It is 
just a bare page to hold the link (otherwise it would show as an ftp 
download!)


Best regards,


Alec


-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502
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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Mon May  8 07:41:05 2023
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 13:41:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
Message-ID: <8758ADDC-F468-4321-BFE8-01EEA93FCA9B@zero51.force9.co.uk>

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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Mon May  8 11:16:30 2023
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 17:16:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Aerial tracking shots
In-Reply-To: <4972EEC9067C45638C21FA3BB3D67BF8@Gigabyte>
References: <688B30E7-81A7-4AC4-9930-D511700BA231@me.com><F5CC99CB-27B9-4908-A50A-999D9F9DEC9B@mac.com>
	<CAA0HHB1AKABoGOt1i8=TOTGmXV4uW+cM=Px9eeqaHxcDq49T0w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4972EEC9067C45638C21FA3BB3D67BF8@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <CB741643-ED70-42FA-8DD9-696C99E22D96@btinternet.com>

Not one of these then! As seen in Lillehammer 1994 when perhaps these slung cameramen didn?t weigh too much!
Barry.


On 8 May 2023, at 09:17, Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I think most of the aerial tracking shots in the concert were from those remote (camera persons too heavy to be slung?) cameras suspended on cables stretched across the site ? possibly on the loudspeaker etc towers - across the site. At various times, they could be seen up in the air.
> Loads of the HH tracking radio linked stuff around the stage was very good ? thank goodness for steadycams.
> And I wonder how many radio mics were involved. At one stage a whole choir were using them as their positioning on the rear steps obviously made fixed mics impossible.
> I did think the little inserts between acts were very good and the re-rigging of stage facilities was amazingly quick and never seen.
>  
> Mike
>  
> From: Alec Bray via Tech1
> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2023 8:41 AM
> To: Mike Giles
> Cc: Tech Ops
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
>  
> Hi,
> We watched the Coronation and the Concert with the same setup - Freeview channel 101 BBC South HD and an LG sound bar.
>  
> No dropouts on sound nor any video problems on the  Concert, but like others had sound dropout and problems in the Coronation. Yes, the sound was bass-light on the Concert but were there that many instruments generating a bass ?? (OK, not a sound person).
>  
> We were amazed by the Concert camerawork - much of it seemed to be from drones ( no sight of a crane ) but the pictures were rock steady, even the swooping panning shots were steady in execution - so much for the wobbly cam brigade! Those shots were steadier that steady-cam shots!
>  
> We were blown away by the light display from the 1000 drones - the whale ? rising out of the sea for example!  Drones are no longer those difficult to control RC things!!!
>  
> Best regards Alec 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From waresound at msn.com  Mon May  8 12:18:03 2023
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 17:18:03 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Aerial tracking shots
In-Reply-To: <CB741643-ED70-42FA-8DD9-696C99E22D96@btinternet.com>
References: <688B30E7-81A7-4AC4-9930-D511700BA231@me.com><F5CC99CB-27B9-4908-A50A-999D9F9DEC9B@mac.com>
	<CAA0HHB1AKABoGOt1i8=TOTGmXV4uW+cM=Px9eeqaHxcDq49T0w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4972EEC9067C45638C21FA3BB3D67BF8@Gigabyte>
	<CB741643-ED70-42FA-8DD9-696C99E22D96@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <PA4P191MB1615C8A7AD16719FDE24FE6FA7719@PA4P191MB1615.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

These days the cameraman doesn?t need to be anywhere near the camera, let alone the director and/or focus puller! Probably better if he isn?t - that way we might not have to suffer wobblycam!
(Runs for cover??)

Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

On 8 May 2023, at 17:17, Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? Not one of these then! As seen in Lillehammer 1994 when perhaps these slung cameramen didn?t weigh too much!
Barry.

<Lillehammer 1994 031.jpg>

On 8 May 2023, at 09:17, Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

I think most of the aerial tracking shots in the concert were from those remote (camera persons too heavy to be slung?) cameras suspended on cables stretched across the site ? possibly on the loudspeaker etc towers - across the site. At various times, they could be seen up in the air.
Loads of the HH tracking radio linked stuff around the stage was very good ? thank goodness for steadycams.
And I wonder how many radio mics were involved. At one stage a whole choir were using them as their positioning on the rear steps obviously made fixed mics impossible.
I did think the little inserts between acts were very good and the re-rigging of stage facilities was amazingly quick and never seen.

Mike

From: Alec Bray via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2023 8:41 AM
To: Mike Giles<mailto:mibridge at mac.com>
Cc: Tech Ops<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage

Hi,
We watched the Coronation and the Concert with the same setup - Freeview channel 101 BBC South HD and an LG sound bar.

No dropouts on sound nor any video problems on the  Concert, but like others had sound dropout and problems in the Coronation. Yes, the sound was bass-light on the Concert but were there that many instruments generating a bass ?? (OK, not a sound person).

We were amazed by the Concert camerawork - much of it seemed to be from drones ( no sight of a crane ) but the pictures were rock steady, even the swooping panning shots were steady in execution - so much for the wobbly cam brigade! Those shots were steadier that steady-cam shots!

We were blown away by the light display from the 1000 drones - the whale ? rising out of the sea for example!  Drones are no longer those difficult to control RC things!!!

Best regards Alec
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon May  8 12:39:46 2023
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 18:39:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Aerial tracking shots
In-Reply-To: <CB741643-ED70-42FA-8DD9-696C99E22D96@btinternet.com>
References: <688B30E7-81A7-4AC4-9930-D511700BA231@me.com>
	<F5CC99CB-27B9-4908-A50A-999D9F9DEC9B@mac.com>
	<CAA0HHB1AKABoGOt1i8=TOTGmXV4uW+cM=Px9eeqaHxcDq49T0w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4972EEC9067C45638C21FA3BB3D67BF8@Gigabyte>
	<CB741643-ED70-42FA-8DD9-696C99E22D96@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <ccda6c57-0fd8-f5cb-be08-9440d5063871@amps.net>

Fantastic rig, Barry!

During the Barcelona Olympics, I posed the question of this forum about 
the installation of the overhead camera on the rowing events -
as to whether it had been rigged by a Swiss cable car firm. The answer 
came back that it was an /Austrian/ company.
Acquisition of aerial shots has developed over the years to much safer 
systems.

Here's a pic of Johnny Jordan on a Bond movie, with a hand controlled 
Arriflex, and a note of his sad demise.
He developed a special helicopter harness for filming aerial shots of 
the mountain slopes and action sequences in the James Bond movie /On Her 
Majesty's Secret Service (1969)./
He would hang eighteen feet below the chopper from a large round metal 
support apparatus.

While filming /You Only Live Twice (1967)/, Johnny was leaning out of a 
helicopter to get a better shot. Another helicopter was caught in a gust 
of wind and was blown closer.
The rotor blade cut Johnny's leg which had to be amputated. Three years 
later, he was filming /Catch-22 (1970)/ over the Gulf of Mexico when 
another plane passed close by.
He was sucked out of the open doorway and fell 2,000 feet to his death. 
He had always refused to wear a safety harness and with his artificial 
leg wasn't as agile as he used to be.

Pat H


On 08/05/2023 17:16, Barry Bonner via Tech1 wrote:
> Not one of these then! As seen in Lillehammer 1994 when perhaps these 
> slung cameramen didn?t weigh too much!
> Barry.
>
>
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon May  8 14:22:10 2023
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 20:22:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <CB0D0D16-EDC9-42BF-8956-30B84B20CC17@me.com>
References: <3D84EAA0-899E-4012-BD6D-FDA8424C4F44@me.com>
	<CB0D0D16-EDC9-42BF-8956-30B84B20CC17@me.com>
Message-ID: <e003268a-109b-7449-7a08-801183fc3995@amps.net>

As far as computer controlled winches...

I believe that the Kirby Wire engineers now use these for flying 
artistes for stage shows.
(e.g. Peter Pan)

Also the huge crane barge 'Tog Mor' used these to hold position for 
drilling the seabed.
My experience was with the raising of the Mary Rose. A sequence of 
lowering the top frame
was subject to weather. A window was available just after dawn. My 
cameraman realised
that if we had gone back to shore hotel, we would miss it in the 
morning, so asked if we could
sleep on board. The skipper said to help ourselves to a cabin in the 
accommodation block -
"And I suppose you want supper, too?"

During the night it blew a Force 8. The Tog Mor was so large and stable 
that we never noticed!

Pat H
>
>> On 8 May 2023, at 10:50, Alan Taylor <alanaudio at me.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> The general idea is that there are four computer controlled cable 
>> winches allowing a suspended radio camera to be positioned anywhere 
>> within the 3D space enclosed by the winch towers. ?The controller 
>> also has a sort of shot box on steroids which not only allows it to 
>> go to preset positions, but also to track along predetermined routes 
>> at variable speeds. I would also expect that the latest ones include 
>> a certain amount of AI to allow tracking an individual, because 
>> that?s now a feature on Technocranes.
>>
>> I don?t know what was actually used on the concert, but am guessing 
>> that it was something like Spidercam. ?Do we have anybody who was 
>> there and able to add more info?
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>
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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Mon May  8 15:20:41 2023
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2023 21:20:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Coronation sound coverage
In-Reply-To: <0E45F593-F0C2-415B-B036-72FCED51EDC4@talktalk.net>
References: <jxlggba52awufc8yg3ycyqno.1683453051101@email.android.com>
	<D992A852-E419-4A50-ADC8-A54BEDAB740C@me.com>
	<0E45F593-F0C2-415B-B036-72FCED51EDC4@talktalk.net>
Message-ID: <9C9F3842-BA80-4E36-988C-E3E8181BEF4E@howell61.f9.co.uk>

For me the sound of the show was the responses to the invitation to give 3 cheers during the military salute. The sound of several thousand (?) fit and healthy human beings exercising their vocal chords to the max in unison  was mighty imptessive.
I don't know how many meaningful rehearsals the Sound Supervisor had, (just the 2 !?) but the result was outstanding,as was the Sound for the whole programe: Congratulations!

John Howell.





> On May 2023, at r17:23, Hugh Snape via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> So far as I?m concerned the sound was absolutely excellent and as a rather lowly ex OB sound supervisor I can only marvel at what was achieved.
> 
> There is quite a bit of interesting discussion from those actually involved in the broadcast in the Facebook group ?I take pictures of television studios? https://www.facebook.com/groups/411248849080553/?hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen&multi_permalinks=2132101216995299 which is informative and very interesting.
> 
> Hugh Snape 
> 
>> On 7 May 2023, at 14:54, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> We watched nearly all of it on iPlayer from an Apple TV to HDMI splitter and to Quad  Vena and KEF 104s, and didn't detect any dropout.
>> 
>> The B&O Play tells me its HD from the Apple, but I can't tell if that's what I'm seeing, is it being fiddled with in the the TV?  And is that what the Apple is producing? (the only other option on the caption on screen is 'CC'. No idea what that means).
>> 
>> All in all a fine performance from all concerned, although it's difficult to take a duff shot of stuff like this.
>> Sound excellent, too, and like everyone else I appreciated the continuity of all tha bands playing when there was a shot change.
>> 
>> Bouquets  to all concerned, anyway.
>> 
>>   Shot of the show?  That overhead shot of the transept in the Abbey - truly breathtaking, quite magnificent.
>> 
>> 
>> Alasdair Lawrance
>> alawrance1 at me.com
>> 
>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 7 May 2023, at 11:18, pat.heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I had converted friends dining room into a cinema for an HD projector & 6ft screen the source being the HDMI o/p of a DVD recorder tuned to Reigate, BBC HD ch101, the audio fed to a Bose Sound bar by optical cable from an HDMI splitter. Noticed the glitches but thought it was down to my end! Better to know it was a TX problem, but sad to realise today's lack of quality monitoring.
>>> What about all those radio mics! None left in any rental company?
>>> Hell of a rig!
>>> Pat H
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6 May 2023, at 17:06, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> We were watching in Dorking from just before ten, on SD from the Mickleham transmitter, with no break-up that I was aware of, and it was on quite loud. But our daughter did say that she had tried HD before we arrived and gave up on it because of break-up, which she attributed to the weather which she says often makes their HD suffer. 
>>> 
>>> I think it was Clare Balding who said that all the bass drummers had earpieces with a countdown, so that they all moved off together, which was certainly the case. 
>>> 
>>> Mike G
>>> 
>>>> On 6 May 2023, at 14:31, Nick Rodger via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?According to Clare Balding?s co~comm all the bass drummers were on some kind of talk~back. 
>>>> 
>>>> Did anyone notice some occasional minor sound break~up on BBC1, or was it my tv. 
>>>> 
>>>> Nick. 
>>>> 
>>>> Nick Rodger 
>>>> Cameraman (Retired) 
>>>> 07971 007578 
>>>> nickrodger at mac.com 
>>>> 
>>>> Don?t blame me!! 
>>>> I voted Remain ?? 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 6 May 2023, at 14:20, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I've just watched a lot of the Coronation. I haven't seen any of the pre Abbey stuff, but when they came out & the bands & marching all started together - gosh. Did I get it right: the band masters(?) & drummers for all the bands were all on the same cue track? That meant whoever was doing the sound could mix between bands without a change of rhythm; a big improvement on the usual overlapping drum beats. As for the stuff on the back lawn: excellent. The "3 cheers" was spectacular & moving. Terrific coverage. Very well done. Anyone know who did it?
>>>> 
>>>> John Nottage
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue May  9 05:34:47 2023
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2023 11:34:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Raise Mary Rose!
In-Reply-To: <2cd63218-451f-b131-f1b9-59c096c74cba@gmail.com>
References: <3D84EAA0-899E-4012-BD6D-FDA8424C4F44@me.com>
	<CB0D0D16-EDC9-42BF-8956-30B84B20CC17@me.com>
	<e003268a-109b-7449-7a08-801183fc3995@amps.net>
	<2cd63218-451f-b131-f1b9-59c096c74cba@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2c2e68bf-d874-6549-91c3-db46e7fb9da1@amps.net>

I wasn't involved with the actual raising - my story posted was 
concerned with positioning the top frame subsequently bolted to the 
bottom frame.
The night on board Tog Mor was very comfortable, but the director and PA 
were only accommodated on the dive boat, which apparently stank of 
diesel fuel
and was very rough!
In between jobs for the crane barge, it has to be stashed somewhere 
incurring mooring costs, so it was pleased to be parked, free of charge 
in the Solent.

Best
Pat

On 09/05/2023 11:03, Alec Bray wrote:
>
> Hi Pat,
>
> On 08/05/2023 20:22, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote:
>> My experience was with the raising of the Mary Rose
>
>
> I don't think that you have told the group about that - it must have 
> been thrilling, what with one of the stays giving way???? I was 
> teaching at that time, and had a Telly rigged up in the classroom so 
> the kids could? watch - a historic moment like that was more important 
> than that day's teaching!!
>
>
> Best regards,? Alec
>
> -- 
> =======
>
> Alec Bray
>
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> Mob:  07789 561 346
> Tel:  0118 981 7502
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue May  9 12:54:33 2023
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2023 18:54:33 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] fw: by Bernard Newnham
In-Reply-To: <fcb1426a42244009983d3d99bbfbad58@DS7PR03MB5558.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <fcb1426a42244009983d3d99bbfbad58@DS7PR03MB5558.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <53e548a7-2635-575a-cf72-863933d88b69@btinternet.com>

Ever feel you've been hacked? I watch the Scam program on BBC1 every 
morning where they can see the scammers PC screen and warn victims that 
they are talking to a scammer, fascinating stuff! Cheers, Dave


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue May  9 13:12:40 2023
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2023 19:12:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Scam message
Message-ID: <70da2864-b771-2e36-db3d-4e2532346b7e@btinternet.com>

Amazingly, my mailbox couldn't deliver my reply to our new Bernie! 
Surprise, surprise! I recommend the 'Scam Interceptors' program for you 
to record at least (about 1100 BBC1), it tells you a lot about how huge 
the scam operations are. Cheers, Dave


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue May  9 13:52:38 2023
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2023 19:52:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: fw: by Bernard Newnham
In-Reply-To: <fcb1426a42244009983d3d99bbfbad58@DS7PR03MB5558.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <fcb1426a42244009983d3d99bbfbad58@DS7PR03MB5558.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <0334d657-81e7-e633-db4f-dae8cba1fce4@btinternet.com>

Here you go! Cheers, Dave




On Tuesday, May 09, 2023 11:36 AM, Bernard wrote:
Hopefully you still remember them - probably I should have forwarded 
them way sooner - these 5 pictures:





























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































hor


From waresound at msn.com  Wed May 10 00:42:43 2023
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 05:42:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: fw: by Bernard Newnham
In-Reply-To: <0334d657-81e7-e633-db4f-dae8cba1fce4@btinternet.com>
References: <fcb1426a42244009983d3d99bbfbad58@DS7PR03MB5558.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
	<0334d657-81e7-e633-db4f-dae8cba1fce4@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB160408ACDD70DBF138E90DEBA7779@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

That ?Bernard wrote? quote (below) is exactly what I?ve been getting via Tech1 from Tony Scott about three times a week for the last six months or so. Usually goes to junk here, but not always.
N.
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

> On 9 May 2023, at 19:53, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Here you go! Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, May 09, 2023 11:36 AM, Bernard wrote:
> Hopefully you still remember them - probably I should have forwarded them way sooner - these 5 pictures:
> 
> [NPW edit]
> 
> hor
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Wed May 10 01:07:10 2023
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 07:07:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] by Bernard Newnham
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB160408ACDD70DBF138E90DEBA7779@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <fcb1426a42244009983d3d99bbfbad58@DS7PR03MB5558.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
	<0334d657-81e7-e633-db4f-dae8cba1fce4@btinternet.com>
	<AM9P191MB160408ACDD70DBF138E90DEBA7779@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <6E22BEC6-928E-44F0-9E25-1E8BEA9532F0@icloud.com>

From ?Roger Long? in my case!

> On 10 May 2023, at 06:42, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> That ?Bernard wrote? quote (below) is exactly what I?ve been getting via Tech1 from Tony Scott about three times a week for the last six months or so. Usually goes to junk here, but not always.
> N.
> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 9 May 2023, at 19:53, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Here you go! Cheers, Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, May 09, 2023 11:36 AM, Bernard wrote:
>> Hopefully you still remember them - probably I should have forwarded them way sooner - these 5 pictures:
>> 
>> [NPW edit]
>> 
>> hor
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From mibridge at mac.com  Wed May 10 02:25:57 2023
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 08:25:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] by Bernard Newnham
In-Reply-To: <6E22BEC6-928E-44F0-9E25-1E8BEA9532F0@icloud.com>
References: <6E22BEC6-928E-44F0-9E25-1E8BEA9532F0@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <678A64F1-D237-4E90-B70D-76DE657B78EE@mac.com>

I?ve been getting exactly the same from Roger, Alasdair and Keith Gunn quite frequently. I usually forward them to <report at phishing.gov.uk>

Mike G

> On 10 May 2023, at 07:08, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?From ?Roger Long? in my case!
> 
>> On 10 May 2023, at 06:42, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> That ?Bernard wrote? quote (below) is exactly what I?ve been getting via Tech1 from Tony Scott about three times a week for the last six months or so. Usually goes to junk here, but not always.
>> N.
>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On 9 May 2023, at 19:53, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Here you go! Cheers, Dave
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Tuesday, May 09, 2023 11:36 AM, Bernard wrote:
>>> Hopefully you still remember them - probably I should have forwarded them way sooner - these 5 pictures:
>>> 
>>> [NPW edit]
>>> 
>>> hor
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alanaudio at me.com  Wed May 10 04:00:29 2023
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 10:00:29 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] by Bernard Newnham
In-Reply-To: <678A64F1-D237-4E90-B70D-76DE657B78EE@mac.com>
References: <678A64F1-D237-4E90-B70D-76DE657B78EE@mac.com>
Message-ID: <DD114FC8-7749-4C8A-A455-50EFF1ACDEB7@me.com>

I haven?t been seeing the attachments on these emails, but the exchanges prompted me to take an early look in my junk folder, when I came across this little gem.

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It bears the hallmarks of every scam email rolled into one.  No mention of my name or any other personal identification info.  It relates to Amazon Prime, which I have always declined, even as a freebie. There is the threat that action is required within 24 hours, which is unlikely in most legitimate emails of that sort and finally there is that whopping great typo, which I?ve highlighted.

Alan

From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed May 10 10:32:50 2023
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 16:32:50 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Scam message
In-Reply-To: <AD5E964E-F841-446A-995B-291BB1B57E08@me.com>
References: <70da2864-b771-2e36-db3d-4e2532346b7e@btinternet.com>
	<AD5E964E-F841-446A-995B-291BB1B57E08@me.com>
Message-ID: <a044aaeb-6ae9-4986-8e8c-70679a3ad554@btinternet.com>

Thanks, Garth, I realised that today! It has many of the same scams that 
I get daily from Amazon and bank and Visa security. Luckily, I have 
persuaded my wife to ignore them otherwise she believes everyone in the 
world is as honest as she is and would happily press button 1! Cheers, Dave


From techtone at protonmail.com  Wed May 10 11:17:44 2023
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 16:17:44 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
Message-ID: <Prladp9iXuVUyDts5MmgjQvXLDWFxejWaDFXdWw95uQ_tcT2dtjwYfwWr40EhhQ81etLSFONJTY7s4HfvK02zICIp7m8HvgsmhNSOb5vc88=@protonmail.com>

I am in the process of upgrading my mac mini (reasons for this towards the end of email) and have got the latest M2 version. However, my old one has 4 USB ports, whereas the new one only has 2 and 2 thunderbolt ports (whatever they are). In my innocence, I assumed that all I needed to do was get an adaptor for USB to thunderbolt, but have been utterly baffled by online searches. Apparently there are now USB 2, USB 3, USB C etc. and thunderbolt 2, 3 and 4 as well. I have worked out that the higher the number, the 'faster' the connection speed, but as such, speed of transfer is not a problem, as when I'm transferring a large amount of data, I simply set up the transfer, and let the computer get on with it.

I have also had suggestions that I need a 'hub', but then find they're upwards of ?200. Hey, all I want is a bit of wire with the right connectors to plug from one computer to another. Yesterday, when I went to the shop in Bangor where I've bought all sorts of phone and computer cables in the past, the man there was totally unfamiliar with 'thunderbolt' and couldn't find one when he did an online search.

At present, all my peripherals are wired (quick nurse, the screens!) keyboard, mouse, time machine and portable hard disc recorder. Without resorting to wireless connections (new keyboard, mouse, etc. - more money) what's the answer?

OK, reasons for the upgrade, and this is where previous discussions here have been useful, as my present provider, John Lewis, is stopping service, and I needed to find another, As it happens, Plusnet always provided the service for them, and I can confirm that other providers I investigated could not guarantee that I would retain my present phone number, how ridiculous. So, I have negotiated a similar deal to the one I have at present, but Plusnet insist on 'upgrading' my router. Since I'll have to do some rewiring anyway, I thought I'd do a complete overhaul of bits and pieces. Sadly, I've also realised that the router wi-fi password will change, and so I'll have to reset a couple of bits of equipment that rely on wi-fi. The new router, which arrived today, has a button marked WPS which claims to 'pair' a device. Am I correct in assuming that if I press this button, any device in the vicinity (that's powered up) will automatically connect of its own accord?

And if you've read this far, do you think there are any other pitfalls, of which I am currently unaware, that may make themselves known in the process? Although the destructions for the new router claim it's simply 'plug and play', I am nevertheless backing up as many 'vital' files as necessary (on two separate hard discs) in the hope that no other ills can befall me.

TeaTeaFN - Tony (baffled, bewildered, brassed off)

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.
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From barry-wilkinson at sky.com  Wed May 10 11:36:14 2023
From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 17:36:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
In-Reply-To: <Prladp9iXuVUyDts5MmgjQvXLDWFxejWaDFXdWw95uQ_tcT2dtjwYfwWr40EhhQ81etLSFONJTY7s4HfvK02zICIp7m8HvgsmhNSOb5vc88=@protonmail.com>
References: <Prladp9iXuVUyDts5MmgjQvXLDWFxejWaDFXdWw95uQ_tcT2dtjwYfwWr40EhhQ81etLSFONJTY7s4HfvK02zICIp7m8HvgsmhNSOb5vc88=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <B3D986DC-85ED-42AE-8F76-57BA1236A7DC@sky.com>

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed May 10 12:39:32 2023
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 18:39:32 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Scam message
In-Reply-To: <049411CA-4852-492B-9BC7-BF3661B54D60@gmail.com>
References: <70da2864-b771-2e36-db3d-4e2532346b7e@btinternet.com>
	<049411CA-4852-492B-9BC7-BF3661B54D60@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4231c70c-cf25-f433-b028-cb546812ad90@btinternet.com>

Who knows, Geoff? Obviously, a scammer has found our group and decided 
to use Bernie's name to dupe us into looking at these articles from the 
Daily Mirror about how you can get very rich very quickly! Cheers, Dave


From stevewlowry at hotmail.com  Wed May 10 12:41:24 2023
From: stevewlowry at hotmail.com (Steve Lowry)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 17:41:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
In-Reply-To: <B3D986DC-85ED-42AE-8F76-57BA1236A7DC@sky.com>
References: <Prladp9iXuVUyDts5MmgjQvXLDWFxejWaDFXdWw95uQ_tcT2dtjwYfwWr40EhhQ81etLSFONJTY7s4HfvK02zICIp7m8HvgsmhNSOb5vc88=@protonmail.com>
	<B3D986DC-85ED-42AE-8F76-57BA1236A7DC@sky.com>
Message-ID: <PAVPR10MB6962B1693AC570304E9ED581B6779@PAVPR10MB6962.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hi Tony,

I shall leave the thunderbolt > USB question to those who have already solved this one ? I do not have any thunderbolt devices.

As for Plusnet ? I like them very much; real humans you can talk with, should you need to, I have found.

Plusnet-provided routers tend to be re-badged BT routers (e.g. Plusnet router Hub 1  = A re-badged ?BT Home Hub 5a?).

There is nothing to stop you changing the Plusnet-supplied router?s setup to have the same Wi-Fi password (for your Wi-Fi SSID) that you had previously. To do this, you would need to explore the Plusnet Router?s Hub Manager: There will be an address that gets you into this, for the Plusnet Hub 1, the address is 192.168.1.254 ? (Easiest/safest to access this via a cabled connection between computer and the Plusnet Hub.)


     *   Once in via this address (for the Plusnet router Hub 1 ): Log in to Hub Manager: Settings>Advanced>Wireless> Both bands 5GHz Sync With 2.4GHz.



     *   Set the WiFi SID and password to your old ones: SSID: whatever_that/they_were, Password /key: whatever_that-was

( https://www.plus.net/help/broadband/router-setup-guides/ )

You do not have to use a Plusnet router with Plusnet broadband ? I found their supplied routers lacking compared with alternatives. But, I would recommend getting things going with the Plusnet-supplied router first, and then only if you find the Plusnet-supplied router inadequate (say for stability or Wi-Fi coverage), only then substitute your own alternative router. You will need some setup parameters to get any alternative router working with Plusnet. I have two different Plusnet accounts that I look after, each with non-Plusnet-supplied routers, now. These run well with FTTC Plusnet Broadband.

I hope this helps,

Steve Lowry

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of B Wilkinson via Tech1
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2023 5:36 PM
To: techtone <techtone at protonmail.com>
Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please

I am no expert but went through similar experiences with changing the router and getting a MacBook Pro.
Re the router ?if my mind allows me to remember , I only was offered a replacement Sky router as part of a deal . Sadly the new router had a different log in code ?bugger?so I had to go round all my ? devices? to update the passwords. I think in my complicated house I had to do the same thing about ten times due to the number of connected devices. What devices are you connecting to the router? I think you have to press the wps button on the router and then go to the devices and tell them to pair if that helps you?
When I binned my windows laptop I bought a very nice MacBook Pro but of course they got rid of the cd inside it and it had a limited number of usb connections. So in the end I had to bite the bullet and buy a dead cheap usb cd player / recorder which then took up a usb socket on the laptop. After days of research I bought an expensive second hand powered hub which connects to the MacBook and provides extra usb and other sockets. This was before it became even more complicated with the variations of usb connectors. I think the hub thingy was well over ?100 to buy and I still have to shift around usb things as I need one to connect to the wireless keyboard and one for the mouse.
I bet none of this helps but you can have my sympathy to lean on!
Sent from my iPad


On 10 May 2023, at 17:18, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
?
I am in the process of upgrading my mac mini (reasons for this towards the end of email) and have got the latest M2 version. However, my old one has 4 USB ports, whereas the new one only has 2 and 2 thunderbolt ports (whatever they are). In my innocence, I assumed that all I needed to do was get an adaptor for USB to thunderbolt, but have been utterly baffled by online searches. Apparently there are now USB 2, USB 3, USB C etc. and thunderbolt 2, 3 and 4 as well. I have worked out that the higher the number, the 'faster' the connection speed, but as such, speed of transfer is not a problem, as when I'm transferring a large amount of data, I simply set up the transfer, and let the computer get on with it.

I have also had suggestions that I need a 'hub', but then find they're upwards of ?200. Hey, all I want is a bit of wire with the right connectors to plug from one computer to another. Yesterday, when I went to the shop in Bangor where I've bought all sorts of phone and computer cables in the past, the man there was totally unfamiliar with 'thunderbolt' and couldn't find one when he did an online search.

At present, all my peripherals are wired (quick nurse, the screens!) keyboard, mouse, time machine and portable hard disc recorder. Without resorting to wireless connections (new keyboard, mouse, etc. - more money) what's the answer?

OK, reasons for the upgrade, and this is where previous discussions here have been useful, as my present provider, John Lewis, is stopping service, and I needed to find another, As it happens, Plusnet always provided the service for them, and I can confirm that other providers I investigated could not guarantee that I would retain my present phone number, how ridiculous. So, I have negotiated a similar deal to the one I have at present, but Plusnet insist on 'upgrading' my router. Since I'll have to do some rewiring anyway, I thought I'd do a complete overhaul of bits and pieces. Sadly, I've also realised that the router wi-fi password will change, and so I'll have to reset a couple of bits of equipment that rely on wi-fi. The new router, which arrived today, has a button marked WPS which claims to 'pair' a device. Am I correct in assuming that if I press this button, any device in the vicinity (that's powered up) will automatically connect of its own accord?

And if you've read this far, do you think there are any other pitfalls, of which I am currently unaware, that may make themselves known in the process? Although the destructions for the new router claim it's simply 'plug and play', I am nevertheless backing up as many 'vital' files as necessary (on two separate hard discs) in the hope that no other ills can befall me.

TeaTeaFN - Tony (baffled, bewildered, brassed off)

Sent with Proton Mail<https://proton.me/> secure email.
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Wed May 10 12:43:18 2023
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 18:43:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
In-Reply-To: <Prladp9iXuVUyDts5MmgjQvXLDWFxejWaDFXdWw95uQ_tcT2dtjwYfwWr40EhhQ81etLSFONJTY7s4HfvK02zICIp7m8HvgsmhNSOb5vc88=@protonmail.com>
References: <Prladp9iXuVUyDts5MmgjQvXLDWFxejWaDFXdWw95uQ_tcT2dtjwYfwWr40EhhQ81etLSFONJTY7s4HfvK02zICIp7m8HvgsmhNSOb5vc88=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <25019B9D-A6AD-4451-A16C-65E88559183A@me.com>

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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Wed May 10 12:44:53 2023
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 18:44:53 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
In-Reply-To: <Prladp9iXuVUyDts5MmgjQvXLDWFxejWaDFXdWw95uQ_tcT2dtjwYfwWr40EhhQ81etLSFONJTY7s4HfvK02zICIp7m8HvgsmhNSOb5vc88=@protonmail.com>
References: <Prladp9iXuVUyDts5MmgjQvXLDWFxejWaDFXdWw95uQ_tcT2dtjwYfwWr40EhhQ81etLSFONJTY7s4HfvK02zICIp7m8HvgsmhNSOb5vc88=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <64b569f1-afbd-72b9-fed2-9d1dd86bc704@gmail.com>

Not an expert on Macs, but thought USB C and Thunderbolt 3 were compatible?

My PC laptop came with only USB C (that's the connector which you can 
invert, unlike other USB), and came with simple small adaptors to USB A 
and everything I have with USB A works just fine with that.

As regards Wi-Fi paring, you need to get the device to attempt to 
connect to your network, then press the WPS button on the router. My 
router isn't that accessible (in the cellar) so find it easier to simply 
enter the passcode. It's not like it has to be done often.

If it's anything like here, I can 'see' 10 Wi-Fi networks on a good day, 
so worth accessing your new router and giving your own and easily 
recognisable name. If the PlusNet router is the same as my BT one, it's 
a nice bit of kit. You can do things like name all your various network 
bits in the router menu.

On 10/05/2023 17:17, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
> I am in the process of upgrading my mac mini (reasons for this towards 
> the end of email) and have got the latest M2 version. However, my old 
> one has 4 USB ports, whereas the new one only has 2 and 2 thunderbolt 
> ports (whatever they are). In my innocence, I assumed that all I needed 
> to do was get an adaptor for USB to thunderbolt, but have been utterly 
> baffled by online searches. Apparently there are now USB 2, USB 3, USB C 
> etc. and thunderbolt 2, 3 and 4 as well. I have worked out that the 
> higher the number, the 'faster' the connection speed, but as such, speed 
> of transfer is not a problem, as when I'm transferring a large amount of 
> data, I simply set up the transfer, and let the computer get on with it.
> 
> I have also had suggestions that I need a 'hub', but then find they're 
> upwards of ?200. Hey, all I want is a bit of wire with the right 
> connectors to plug from one computer to another. Yesterday, when I went 
> to the shop in Bangor where I've bought all sorts of phone and computer 
> cables in the past, the man there was totally unfamiliar with 
> 'thunderbolt' and couldn't find one when he did an online search.
> 
> At present, all my peripherals are wired (quick nurse, the screens!) 
> keyboard, mouse, time machine and portable hard disc recorder. Without 
> resorting to wireless connections (new keyboard, mouse, etc. - more 
> money) what's the answer?
> 
> OK, reasons for the upgrade, and this is where previous discussions here 
> have been useful, as my present provider, John Lewis, is stopping 
> service, and I needed to find another, As it happens, Plusnet always 
> provided the service for them, and I can confirm that other providers I 
> investigated could not guarantee that I would retain my present phone 
> number, how ridiculous. So, I have negotiated a similar deal to the one 
> I have at present, but Plusnet insist on 'upgrading' my router. Since 
> I'll have to do some rewiring anyway, I thought I'd do a complete 
> overhaul of bits and pieces. Sadly, I've also realised that the router 
> wi-fi password will change, and so I'll have to reset a couple of bits 
> of equipment that rely on wi-fi. The new router, which arrived today, 
> has a button marked WPS which claims to 'pair' a device. Am I correct in 
> assuming that if I press this button, any device in the vicinity (that's 
> powered up) will automatically connect of its own accord?
> 
> And if you've read this far, do you think there are any other pitfalls, 
> of which I am currently unaware, that may make themselves known in the 
> process? Although the destructions for the new router claim it's simply 
> 'plug and play', I am nevertheless backing up as many 'vital' files as 
> necessary (on two separate hard discs) in the hope that no other ills 
> can befall me.
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony (baffled, bewildered, brassed off)
> 
> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/> secure email.
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From barry-wilkinson at sky.com  Wed May 10 13:33:35 2023
From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 19:33:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
In-Reply-To: <PAVPR10MB6962B1693AC570304E9ED581B6779@PAVPR10MB6962.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAVPR10MB6962B1693AC570304E9ED581B6779@PAVPR10MB6962.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <472E2B43-CE5F-4CD0-BC45-E2DE5A274106@sky.com>

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From alanaudio at me.com  Wed May 10 14:24:01 2023
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 20:24:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Scam message
In-Reply-To: <4231c70c-cf25-f433-b028-cb546812ad90@btinternet.com>
References: <4231c70c-cf25-f433-b028-cb546812ad90@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <E107AD65-F59E-4779-BEE7-46A189223882@me.com>

I believe the Tech Ops email system is private and email addresses wouldn?t be visible to outsiders.  It seems more likely to me that the computer of one individual has been compromised ( virus or similar ) and the spam emails are being sent to everybody in that person?s address book, or being faked as though they were coming from people on that person's address book. If somebody were to examine the expanded header information on one of those emails( it?s normally hidden ), they would probably discover that not only did it not originate from the person it purports to come from, but it probably didn?t even originate in the UK.

If it were the full list of members, then presumably everybody would be getting them.  I?m certainly not getting any.  But as I was never based at TVC, I wouldn?t be likely to be in many people's address book.

Alan


> On 10 May 2023, at 18:39, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Obviously, a scammer has found our group and decided to use Bernie's name to dupe us into looking at these articles from the Daily Mirror about how you can get very rich very quickly! Cheers, 
> 


From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Wed May 10 17:47:05 2023
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 23:47:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?q?Help_with_mac_mini_cabling_please?=
Message-ID: <c2363c05-a3ab-464a-0707-0ecfc47de872@gmail.com>

Not an expert on Macs, but thought USB C and Thunderbolt 3 were compatible?

My PC laptop came with only USB C (that's the connector which you can 
invert, unlike other USB), and came with simple small adaptors to USB A 
and everything I have with USB A works just fine with that.

As regards Wi-Fi paring, you need to get the device to attempt to 
connect to your network, then press the WPS button on the router. My 
router isn't that accessible (in the cellar) so find it easier to simply 
enter the passcode. It's not like it has to be done often.

If it's anything like here, I can 'see' 10 Wi-Fi networks on a good day, 
so worth accessing your new router and giving your own and easily 
recognisable name. If the PlusNet router is the same as my BT one, it's 
a nice bit of kit. You can do things like name all your various network 
bits in the router menu.

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Wed May 10 17:53:11 2023
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2023 23:53:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
In-Reply-To: <c2363c05-a3ab-464a-0707-0ecfc47de872@gmail.com>
References: <c2363c05-a3ab-464a-0707-0ecfc47de872@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a6a2090a-60b4-3f4a-08e9-0c2df4edeb72@gmail.com>

Weird. I first posted this as a reply to the original at about 1800. It 
disappeared in to the void which is Tech Ops. So did a copy and paste 
and posted my reply on its own. Which got through.

On 10/05/2023 23:47, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> Not an expert on Macs, but thought USB C and Thunderbolt 3 were compatible?
> 
> My PC laptop came with only USB C (that's the connector which you can 
> invert, unlike other USB), and came with simple small adaptors to USB A 
> and everything I have with USB A works just fine with that.
> 
> As regards Wi-Fi paring, you need to get the device to attempt to 
> connect to your network, then press the WPS button on the router. My 
> router isn't that accessible (in the cellar) so find it easier to simply 
> enter the passcode. It's not like it has to be done often.
> 
> If it's anything like here, I can 'see' 10 Wi-Fi networks on a good day, 
> so worth accessing your new router and giving your own and easily 
> recognisable name. If the PlusNet router is the same as my BT one, it's 
> a nice bit of kit. You can do things like name all your various network 
> bits in the router menu.
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From alanaudio at me.com  Wed May 10 18:46:06 2023
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 00:46:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
In-Reply-To: <c2363c05-a3ab-464a-0707-0ecfc47de872@gmail.com>
References: <c2363c05-a3ab-464a-0707-0ecfc47de872@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2FBE2F04-7330-4514-ABA8-DC79F524CD6A@me.com>

You?re quite right.  To all intents and purposes, a casual user can simply think of Thunderbolt ports as being USB3 ports. It?s exactly the same connector, it?s the electronics which differs.

Essentially the Thunderbolt ports are an enhanced variant of USB3. There are four specifications, USB3, USB4, Thunderbolt 3 & Thunderbolt 4. Each one is a bit more refined than the previous one.

Speed wise they respectively handle 10, 20, 40 & 40Gb/sec.

Power handling is 4.5, 7.5, 15 & 15W

You can run a 4K monitor via them all, but Thunderbolt 4 is guaranteed to support two 4k monitors simultaneously.

Most of us have USB2 peripherals these days and before that we used serial, parallel or SCSSI interfaces, but over time we mostly converged onto USB2.  Future peripherals will likely be USB3 or Thunderbolt because the performance is so much better. Tony?s new computer has a foot in the past, but is looking to the future too, by having USB2 and Thunderbolt ports. 

You can buy simple plug-in adaptors to connect USB2 things into USB3 ports. I got some on eBay for a little over a pound each so that old USB memory sticks can plug into USB3 ports.

Alan





> On 10 May 2023, at 23:47, Dave Plowman ringvia Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Not an expert on Macs, but thought USB C and Thunderbolt 3 were compatible?
> 
> My PC laptop came with only USB C (that's the connector which you can invert, unlike other USB), and came with simple small adaptors to USB A and everything I have with USB A works just fine with that.
> 
> As regards Wi-Fi paring, you need to get the device to attempt to connect to your network, then press the WPS button on the router. My router isn't that accessible (in the cellar) so find it easier to simply enter the passcode. It's not like it has to be done often.
> 
> If it's anything like here, I can 'see' 10 Wi-Fi networks on a good day, so worth accessing your new router and giving your own and easily recognisable name. If the PlusNet router is the same as my BT one, it's a nice bit of kit. You can do things like name all your various network bits in the router menu.
> 
> -- 
> Dave Plowman
> London, SW
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From doug at puddifoot.me  Thu May 11 04:08:16 2023
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 10:08:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
Message-ID: <u2up2f3sy6ugk4ieqmjbror4.1683795791310@email.android.com>

Hi Tony

Not an Apple expert, but it looks as if these convert a thunderbolt port into a usb port compatable with USB 2 for your old devices. Pack of three for ?6.49 at Amazon. you would then have five USB ports.
Perhaps an Apple owner could comment.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Basesailor-Thunderbolt-Converter-Generation-Microsoft-Gray/dp/B09SZ5NHF4/ref=sr_1_5?adgrpid=57729262314&hvadid=606163401292&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9180722&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=11541786265796231029&hvtargid=kwd-304395489291&hydadcr=18825_2281286&keywords=thunderbolt+adapter+to+usb&qid=1683795482&sr=8-5

Doug Puddifoot

On 10 May 2023, at 17:17, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

I am in the process of upgrading my mac mini (reasons for this towards the end of email) and have got the latest M2 version. However, my old one has 4 USB ports, whereas the new one only has 2 and 2 thunderbolt ports (whatever they are). In my innocence, I assumed that all I needed to do was get an adaptor for USB to thunderbolt, but have been utterly baffled by online searches. Apparently there are now USB 2, USB 3, USB C etc. and thunderbolt 2, 3 and 4 as well. I have worked out that the higher the number, the 'faster' the connection speed, but as such, speed of transfer is not a problem, as when I'm transferring a large amount of data, I simply set up the transfer, and let the computer get on with it.


I have also had suggestions that I need a 'hub', but then find they're upwards of ?200. Hey, all I want is a bit of wire with the right connectors to plug from one computer to another. Yesterday, when I went to the shop in Bangor where I've bought all sorts of phone and computer cables in the past, the man there was totally unfamiliar with 'thunderbolt' and couldn't find one when he did an online search.


At present, all my peripherals are wired (quick nurse, the screens!) keyboard, mouse, time machine and portable hard disc recorder. Without resorting to wireless connections (new keyboard, mouse, etc. - more money) what's the answer?


OK, reasons for the upgrade, and this is where previous discussions here have been useful, as my present provider, John Lewis, is stopping service, and I needed to find another, As it happens, Plusnet always provided the service for them, and I can confirm that other providers I investigated could not guarantee that I would retain my present phone number, how ridiculous. So, I have negotiated a similar deal to the one I have at present, but Plusnet insist on 'upgrading' my router. Since I'll have to do some rewiring anyway, I thought I'd do a complete overhaul of bits and pieces. Sadly, I've also realised that the router wi-fi password will change, and so I'll have to reset a couple of bits of equipment that rely on wi-fi. The new router, which arrived today, has a button marked WPS which claims to 'pair' a device. Am I correct in assuming that if I press this button, any device in the vicinity (that's powered up) will automatically connect of its own accord?


And if you've read this far, do you think there are any other pitfalls, of which I am currently unaware, that may make themselves known in the process? Although the destructions for the new router claim it's simply 'plug and play', I am nevertheless backing up as many 'vital' files as necessary (on two separate hard discs) in the hope that no other ills can befall me.


TeaTeaFN - Tony (baffled, bewildered, brassed off)


Sent with Proton Mail secure email. 
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Thu May 11 04:54:40 2023
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 10:54:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
Message-ID: <645cbb60.b10.1ec4.2f7c@fireflyuk.net>



 It might be worth mentioning the distinction between the terminology 
used for the protocols involved and that for the physical connectors.

Up to protocol usb 3.1 the connectors used were the same type A 
(albeit with more pins on the later variants). From usb 3.2 (two 
versions) onwards the new usb type c connectors took over and it is 
these that are both compatible with lightning and can be inserted 
either way up. The connector has provision for 12 connections but I 
believe some leads are not fully wired (shades of the old scart 
cables!)

Dave Newbitt.
>
> --- Original message ---
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
> From: Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: Thursday, 11/05/2023 10:09:09
>
> Hi Tony
> Not an Apple expert, but it looks as if these convert a thunderbolt 
> port into a usb port compatable with USB 2 for your old devices. Pack 
> of three for ?6.49 at Amazon. you would then have five USB ports.
> Perhaps an Apple owner could comment.
>
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Basesailor-Thunderbolt-Converter-Generation-Microsoft-Gray/dp/B09SZ5NHF4/ref=sr_1_5?adgrpid=57729262314&hvadid=606163401292&hvdev=t&hvlocphy=9180722&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=11541786265796231029&hvtargid=kwd-304395489291&hydadcr=18825_2281286&keywords=thunderbolt+adapter+to+usb&qid=1683795482&sr=8-5
> Doug Puddifoot
>
>
> On 10 May 2023, at 17:17, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> I am in the process of upgrading my mac mini (reasons for this towards 
> the end of email) and have got the latest M2 version. However, my old 
> one has 4 USB ports, whereas the new one only has 2 and 2 thunderbolt 
> ports (whatever they are). In my innocence, I assumed that all I 
> needed to do was get an adaptor for USB to thunderbolt, but have been 
> utterly baffled by online searches. Apparently there are now USB 2, 
> USB 3, USB C etc. and thunderbolt 2, 3 and 4 as well. I have worked 
> out that the higher the number, the 'faster' the connection speed, but 
> as such, speed of transfer is not a problem, as when I'm transferring 
> a large amount of data, I simply set up the transfer, and let the 
> computer get on with it.
>
> I have also had suggestions that I need a 'hub', but then find they're 
> upwards of ?200. Hey, all I want is a bit of wire with the right 
> connectors to plug from one computer to another. Yesterday, when I 
> went to the shop in Bangor where I've bought all sorts of phone and 
> computer cables in the past, the man there was totally unfamiliar with 
> 'thunderbolt' and couldn't find one when he did an online search.
>
> At present, all my peripherals are wired (quick nurse, the screens!) 
> keyboard, mouse, time machine and portable hard disc recorder. Without 
> resorting to wireless connections (new keyboard, mouse, etc. - more 
> money) what's the answer?
>
> OK, reasons for the upgrade, and this is where previous discussions 
> here have been useful, as my present provider, John Lewis, is stopping 
> service, and I needed to find another, As it happens, Plusnet always 
> provided the service for them, and I can confirm that other providers 
> I investigated could not guarantee that I would retain my present 
> phone number, how ridiculous. So, I have negotiated a similar deal to 
> the one I have at present, but Plusnet insist on 'upgrading' my 
> router. Since I'll have to do some rewiring anyway, I thought I'd do a 
> complete overhaul of bits and pieces. Sadly, I've also realised that 
> the router wi-fi password will change, and so I'll have to reset a 
> couple of bits of equipment that rely on wi-fi. The new router, which 
> arrived today, has a button marked WPS which claims to 'pair' a 
> device. Am I correct in assuming that if I press this button, any 
> device in the vicinity (that's powered up) will automatically connect 
> of its own accord?
>
> And if you've read this far, do you think there are any other 
> pitfalls, of which I am currently unaware, that may make themselves 
> known in the process? Although the destructions for the new router 
> claim it's simply 'plug and play', I am nevertheless backing up as 
> many 'vital' files as necessary (on two separate hard discs) in the 
> hope that no other ills can befall me.
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony (baffled, bewildered, brassed off)
>
>
>
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email. --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu May 11 05:00:55 2023
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 11:00:55 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
In-Reply-To: <645c9a16.b10.2704.3ff0@fireflyuk.net>
References: <645c9a16.b10.2704.3ff0@fireflyuk.net>
Message-ID: <A7219EBD-AC54-4C6A-B568-23929C614043@me.com>

There is lots of potential confusion because so many names have been bandied about and there are lots of variants of each standard, just as there are lots of variants of HDMI ports.  Technology keeps advancing and they modify standards to accommodate new opportunities.

In simple terms, when talking to non-technical people, I prefer to refer simply to USB ( the familiar one where you always plug it in the wrong way up ) and USB C ( with rounded ends and can be plugged in either way up ). For most people, Thunderbolt = USB C. If you are doing something which takes advantages of the more esoteric possibilities of Thunderbolt or USB4, then you?re probably clued up enough to know about the variants and how it differs from USB C.

Just as with variants of HDMI, all USB C ports use the same USB C connector, but the difference between the variants is down to the protocol used by the driving electronics.  

Lightning connectors as found on iPhones from 2010 onwards predate USB C and have many shared features, but they are not compatible.  Much of the technology in USB C can be found within Lightning and it was quite a straightforward task to make a simple adapter allowing USB C devices to plug into a lightning port, but you can?t simply plug one into the other.

A Lightning connector has contacts on the side, eight per side, while USB C has two rows of twelve pins within the metal shroud. The shape and dimensions are similar, but slightly different.

In my picture Lightning is the white one, USB C the grey one.

Bottom line, if you think of USB without a suffix as being the traditional rectangular one and USB C ( and Thunderbolt ) as being the new, rounded one, in most cases you can plug any USB device into a USB socket, or you can plug any USB C peripheral into any USB C / Thunderbolt socket. You can get cheap adaptors to plug USB into USB C sockets, but I?m not aware of any that allow USB C to be plugged into USB ( old type ). 

Lightning connectors are reaching the end of their lifespan because the EU has mandated that all phones sold in the EU will have to have a USB C connector. It?s widely rumoured that the next IPhone will have the USB C port.  Some iPads already use it, as do Apple laptops and accessories.

One further point is that the USB C connector can carry quite significant amounts of power.  A computer might deliver a pretty useful 15W via USB C, but USB C power supplies can deliver 100W or more, although you would need a suitably rated cable to handle it.

Alan


> On 11 May 2023, at 08:32, dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net wrote:
> 
> ?
>  Is there some typo or other confusion setting in here? USB3 and its developments (USB3.1 etc) use the same connector as USB and USB2, it's USBC which is compatible with Lightning and which uses an 'either way up' connector. As Dave P observes USBC to USB2/3 leads are just fine.
> Date Newbitt.
>  
>> On Thursday 11/05/2023 at 00:46:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> You?re quite right. To all intents and purposes, a casual user can simply think of Thunderbolt ports as being USB3 ports. It?s exactly the same connector, it?s the electronics which differs.
>> 
>> Essentially the Thunderbolt ports are an enhanced variant of USB3. There are four specifications, USB3, USB4, Thunderbolt 3 & Thunderbolt 4. Each one is a bit more refined than the previous one.
>> 
>> Speed wise they respectively handle 10, 20, 40 & 40Gb/sec.
>> 
>> Power handling is 4.5, 7.5, 15 & 15W
>> 
>> You can run a 4K monitor via them all, but Thunderbolt 4 is guaranteed to support two 4k monitors simultaneously.
>> 
>> Most of us have USB2 peripherals these days and before that we used serial, parallel or SCSSI interfaces, but over time we mostly converged onto USB2. Future peripherals will likely be USB3 or Thunderbolt because the performance is so much better. Tony?s new computer has a foot in the past, but is looking to the future too, by having USB2 and Thunderbolt ports. 
>> 
>> You can buy simple plug-in adaptors to connect USB2 things into USB3 ports. I got some on eBay for a little over a pound each so that old USB memory sticks can plug into USB3 ports.
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 10 May 2023, at 23:47, Dave Plowman ringvia Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Not an expert on Macs, but thought USB C and Thunderbolt 3 were compatible?
>>> 
>>> My PC laptop came with only USB C (that's the connector which you can invert, unlike other USB), and came with simple small adaptors to USB A and everything I have with USB A works just fine with that.
>>> 
>>> As regards Wi-Fi paring, you need to get the device to attempt to connect to your network, then press the WPS button on the router. My router isn't that accessible (in the cellar) so find it easier to simply enter the passcode. It's not like it has to be done often.
>>> 
>>> If it's anything like here, I can 'see' 10 Wi-Fi networks on a good day, so worth accessing your new router and giving your own and easily recognisable name. If the PlusNet router is the same as my BT one, it's a nice bit of kit. You can do things like name all your various network bits in the router menu.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Dave Plowman
>>> London, SW
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Thu May 11 05:12:01 2023
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 11:12:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
Message-ID: <645cbf71.b10.28bc.1113@fireflyuk.net>


 As ever with Alan a full and erudite explanation of the overall 
picture. Hopefully we've all got it now! In my amateur piece I 
referred to compatibility of USB and lightning in an incorrect way and 
am happy to acknowledge.

Dave Newbitt

>
> --- Original message ---
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> To: tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: Thursday, 11/05/2023 11:01:44
>
>
>
>
> There is lots of potential confusion because so many names have been 
> bandied about and there are lots of variants of each standard, just as 
> there are lots of variants of HDMI ports.  Technology keeps advancing 
> and they modify standards to accommodate new opportunities.
>
> In simple terms, when talking to non-technical people, I prefer to 
> refer simply to USB ( the familiar one where you always plug it in the 
> wrong way up ) and USB C ( with rounded ends and can be plugged in 
> either way up ). For most people, Thunderbolt = USB C. If you are 
> doing something which takes advantages of the more esoteric 
> possibilities of Thunderbolt or USB4, then you?re probably clued up 
> enough to know about the variants and how it differs from USB C.
>
> Just as with variants of HDMI, all USB C ports use the same USB C 
> connector, but the difference between the variants is down to the 
> protocol used by the driving electronics.
>
> Lightning connectors as found on iPhones from 2010 onwards predate USB 
> C and have many shared features, but they are not compatible.  Much of 
> the technology in USB C can be found within Lightning and it was quite 
> a straightforward task to make a simple adapter allowing USB C devices 
> to plug into a lightning port, but you can?t simply plug one into 
> the other.
>
> A Lightning connector has contacts on the side, eight per side, while 
> USB C has two rows of twelve pins within the metal shroud. The shape 
> and dimensions are similar, but slightly different.
>
> In my picture Lightning is the white one, USB C the grey one.
>
> Bottom line, if you think of USB without a suffix as being the 
> traditional rectangular one and USB C ( and Thunderbolt ) as being the 
> new, rounded one, in most cases you can plug any USB device into a USB 
> socket, or you can plug any USB C peripheral into any USB C / 
> Thunderbolt socket. You can get cheap adaptors to plug USB into USB C 
> sockets, but I?m not aware of any that allow USB C to be plugged 
> into USB ( old type ).
>
> Lightning connectors are reaching the end of their lifespan because 
> the EU has mandated that all phones sold in the EU will have to have a 
> USB C connector. It?s widely rumoured that the next IPhone will have 
> the USB C port.  Some iPads already use it, as do Apple laptops and 
> accessories.
>
> One further point is that the USB C connector can carry quite 
> significant amounts of power.  A computer might deliver a pretty 
> useful 15W via USB C, but USB C power supplies can deliver 100W or 
> more, although you would need a suitably rated cable to handle it.
>
> Alan
>
>
>>
>> On 11 May 2023, at 08:32, dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> ?
>> Is there some typo or other confusion setting in here? USB3 and its 
>> developments (USB3.1 etc) use the same connector as USB and USB2, it's 
>> USBC which is compatible with Lightning and which uses an 'either way 
>> up' connector. As Dave P observes USBC to USB2/3 leads are just fine.
>> Date Newbitt.
>>
>>
>> On Thursday 11/05/2023 at 00:46:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1  wrote:
>>> You?re quite right.  To all intents and purposes, a casual user can 
>>> simply think of Thunderbolt ports as being USB3 ports. It?s exactly 
>>> the same connector, it?s the electronics which differs.
>>>
>>> Essentially the Thunderbolt ports are an enhanced variant of USB3. 
>>> There are four specifications, USB3, USB4, Thunderbolt 3 & Thunderbolt 
>>> 4. Each one is a bit more refined than the previous one.
>>>
>>> Speed wise they respectively handle 10, 20, 40 & 40Gb/sec.
>>>
>>> Power handling is 4.5, 7.5, 15 & 15W
>>>
>>> You can run a 4K monitor via them all, but Thunderbolt 4 is guaranteed 
>>> to support two 4k monitors simultaneously.
>>>
>>> Most of us have USB2 peripherals these days and before that we used 
>>> serial, parallel or SCSSI interfaces, but over time we mostly 
>>> converged onto USB2.  Future peripherals will likely be USB3 or 
>>> Thunderbolt because the performance is so much better. Tony?s new 
>>> computer has a foot in the past, but is looking to the future too, by 
>>> having USB2 and Thunderbolt ports.
>>>
>>> You can buy simple plug-in adaptors to connect USB2 things into USB3 
>>> ports. I got some on eBay for a little over a pound each so that old 
>>> USB memory sticks can plug into USB3 ports.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10 May 2023, at 23:47, Dave Plowman ringvia Tech1 
>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?Not an expert on Macs, but thought USB C and Thunderbolt 3 were 
>>>> compatible?
>>>>
>>>> My PC laptop came with only USB C (that's the connector which you can 
>>>> invert, unlike other USB), and came with simple small adaptors to USB 
>>>> A and everything I have with USB A works just fine with that.
>>>>
>>>> As regards Wi-Fi paring, you need to get the device to attempt to 
>>>> connect to your network, then press the WPS button on the router. My 
>>>> router isn't that accessible (in the cellar) so find it easier to 
>>>> simply enter the passcode. It's not like it has to be done often.
>>>>
>>>> If it's anything like here, I can 'see' 10 Wi-Fi networks on a good 
>>>> day, so worth accessing your new router and giving your own and easily 
>>>> recognisable name. If the PlusNet router is the same as my BT one, 
>>>> it's a nice bit of kit. You can do things like name all your various 
>>>> network bits in the router menu.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>> London, SW
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu May 11 05:39:18 2023
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 11:39:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
In-Reply-To: <645cbf71.b10.28bc.1113@fireflyuk.net>
References: <645cbf71.b10.28bc.1113@fireflyuk.net>
Message-ID: <4C162480-F4D4-485B-9196-E52606543609@me.com>

There seems to be something of a paradox that they develop standards and then introduce so many variants of those standards. I think it?s done to confuse people ? and it seems to be doing so really effectively.

I would also add that those adaptors mentioned by Doug should be fine.  I got some super-cheap unbranded ones from eBay about three years ago and can?t complain about them either. 

If anybody wants more ports on a Mac mini or iBook laptop, there are a lot of multi-port adaptors available which offer various combinations of extra  connections via one USB C ( Thunderbolt ) port.  I know somebody who got one which offers extra USB C and USB ports, an HDMI video port, audio in/out and a card reader for her camera, plus a few other things I?ve forgotten about.  It basically means that when she plugs that USB C lead into her laptop, all the peripherals she uses at home magically become connected and her laptop does everything she used to use a desktop computer to do.

Alan


> On 11 May 2023, at 11:12, dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net wrote:
> 
> ?
>  As ever with Alan a full and erudite explanation of the overall picture. Hopefully we've all got it now! In my amateur piece I referred to compatibility of USB and lightning in an incorrect way and am happy to acknowledge.
> 
> Dave Newbitt
>  
>> --- Original message --- 
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please 
>> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> To: tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> Date: Thursday, 11/05/2023 11:01:44
>> 
>> There is lots of potential confusion because so many names have been bandied about and there are lots of variants of each standard, just as there are lots of variants of HDMI ports.  Technology keeps advancing and they modify standards to accommodate new opportunities.
>> 
>> In simple terms, when talking to non-technical people, I prefer to refer simply to USB ( the familiar one where you always plug it in the wrong way up ) and USB C ( with rounded ends and can be plugged in either way up ). For most people, Thunderbolt = USB C. If you are doing something which takes advantages of the more esoteric possibilities of Thunderbolt or USB4, then you?re probably clued up enough to know about the variants and how it differs from USB C.
>> 
>> Just as with variants of HDMI, all USB C ports use the same USB C connector, but the difference between the variants is down to the protocol used by the driving electronics.  
>> 
>> Lightning connectors as found on iPhones from 2010 onwards predate USB C and have many shared features, but they are not compatible.  Much of the technology in USB C can be found within Lightning and it was quite a straightforward task to make a simple adapter allowing USB C devices to plug into a lightning port, but you can?t simply plug one into the other.
>> 
>> A Lightning connector has contacts on the side, eight per side, while USB C has two rows of twelve pins within the metal shroud. The shape and dimensions are similar, but slightly different. [ Image ]
>> 
>> In my picture Lightning is the white one, USB C the grey one.
>> 
>> Bottom line, if you think of USB without a suffix as being the traditional rectangular one and USB C ( and Thunderbolt ) as being the new, rounded one, in most cases you can plug any USB device into a USB socket, or you can plug any USB C peripheral into any USB C / Thunderbolt socket. You can get cheap adaptors to plug USB into USB C sockets, but I?m not aware of any that allow USB C to be plugged into USB ( old type ). 
>> 
>> Lightning connectors are reaching the end of their lifespan because the EU has mandated that all phones sold in the EU will have to have a USB C connector. It?s widely rumoured that the next IPhone will have the USB C port.  Some iPads already use it, as do Apple laptops and accessories.
>> 
>> One further point is that the USB C connector can carry quite significant amounts of power.  A computer might deliver a pretty useful 15W via USB C, but USB C power supplies can deliver 100W or more, although you would need a suitably rated cable to handle it.
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>> On 11 May 2023, at 08:32, dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>>  Is there some typo or other confusion setting in here? USB3 and its developments (USB3.1 etc) use the same connector as USB and USB2, it's USBC which is compatible with Lightning and which uses an 'either way up' connector. As Dave P observes USBC to USB2/3 leads are just fine.
>> Date Newbitt.
>>  
>> On Thursday 11/05/2023 at 00:46:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> You?re quite right. To all intents and purposes, a casual user can simply think of Thunderbolt ports as being USB3 ports. It?s exactly the same connector, it?s the electronics which differs.
>> 
>> Essentially the Thunderbolt ports are an enhanced variant of USB3. There are four specifications, USB3, USB4, Thunderbolt 3 & Thunderbolt 4. Each one is a bit more refined than the previous one.
>> 
>> Speed wise they respectively handle 10, 20, 40 & 40Gb/sec.
>> 
>> Power handling is 4.5, 7.5, 15 & 15W
>> 
>> You can run a 4K monitor via them all, but Thunderbolt 4 is guaranteed to support two 4k monitors simultaneously.
>> 
>> Most of us have USB2 peripherals these days and before that we used serial, parallel or SCSSI interfaces, but over time we mostly converged onto USB2. Future peripherals will likely be USB3 or Thunderbolt because the performance is so much better. Tony?s new computer has a foot in the past, but is looking to the future too, by having USB2 and Thunderbolt ports. 
>> 
>> You can buy simple plug-in adaptors to connect USB2 things into USB3 ports. I got some on eBay for a little over a pound each so that old USB memory sticks can plug into USB3 ports.
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 10 May 2023, at 23:47, Dave Plowman ringvia Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Not an expert on Macs, but thought USB C and Thunderbolt 3 were compatible?
>> 
>> My PC laptop came with only USB C (that's the connector which you can invert, unlike other USB), and came with simple small adaptors to USB A and everything I have with USB A works just fine with that.
>> 
>> As regards Wi-Fi paring, you need to get the device to attempt to connect to your network, then press the WPS button on the router. My router isn't that accessible (in the cellar) so find it easier to simply enter the passcode. It's not like it has to be done often.
>> 
>> If it's anything like here, I can 'see' 10 Wi-Fi networks on a good day, so worth accessing your new router and giving your own and easily recognisable name. If the PlusNet router is the same as my BT one, it's a nice bit of kit. You can do things like name all your various network bits in the router menu.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Dave Plowman
>> London, SW
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
> 
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From doug at puddifoot.me  Thu May 11 06:35:15 2023
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 12:35:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
Message-ID: <ms463m5ui3covy205mwdjlqm.1683804915715@email.android.com>

https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MJ1M2ZM/A/usb-c-to-usb-adapter?fnode=f71ced1551c29a52c943f18123fc3a9315e3bb20f7172a5492470b22cb3667760903efaef2631264a11a66101def7a85c201c9da92213bff4d1c386fc87122ece7aedd183a659248f2dc5e142ee3c39872bf9046e6cbf0574ab87ccdb6f56bb7

Here is the official expensive Apple adapter to convert a thunderbolt port to USB2. I would have thought the Amazon ones would work just as well. Anyone know for sure?

Doug Puddifoot

On 10 May 2023, at 17:17, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

I am in the process of upgrading my mac mini (reasons for this towards the end of email) and have got the latest M2 version. However, my old one has 4 USB ports, whereas the new one only has 2 and 2 thunderbolt ports (whatever they are). In my innocence, I assumed that all I needed to do was get an adaptor for USB to thunderbolt, but have been utterly baffled by online searches. Apparently there are now USB 2, USB 3, USB C etc. and thunderbolt 2, 3 and 4 as well. I have worked out that the higher the number, the 'faster' the connection speed, but as such, speed of transfer is not a problem, as when I'm transferring a large amount of data, I simply set up the transfer, and let the computer get on with it.


I have also had suggestions that I need a 'hub', but then find they're upwards of ?200. Hey, all I want is a bit of wire with the right connectors to plug from one computer to another. Yesterday, when I went to the shop in Bangor where I've bought all sorts of phone and computer cables in the past, the man there was totally unfamiliar with 'thunderbolt' and couldn't find one when he did an online search.


At present, all my peripherals are wired (quick nurse, the screens!) keyboard, mouse, time machine and portable hard disc recorder. Without resorting to wireless connections (new keyboard, mouse, etc. - more money) what's the answer?


OK, reasons for the upgrade, and this is where previous discussions here have been useful, as my present provider, John Lewis, is stopping service, and I needed to find another, As it happens, Plusnet always provided the service for them, and I can confirm that other providers I investigated could not guarantee that I would retain my present phone number, how ridiculous. So, I have negotiated a similar deal to the one I have at present, but Plusnet insist on 'upgrading' my router. Since I'll have to do some rewiring anyway, I thought I'd do a complete overhaul of bits and pieces. Sadly, I've also realised that the router wi-fi password will change, and so I'll have to reset a couple of bits of equipment that rely on wi-fi. The new router, which arrived today, has a button marked WPS which claims to 'pair' a device. Am I correct in assuming that if I press this button, any device in the vicinity (that's powered up) will automatically connect of its own accord?


And if you've read this far, do you think there are any other pitfalls, of which I am currently unaware, that may make themselves known in the process? Although the destructions for the new router claim it's simply 'plug and play', I am nevertheless backing up as many 'vital' files as necessary (on two separate hard discs) in the hope that no other ills can befall me.


TeaTeaFN - Tony (baffled, bewildered, brassed off)


Sent with Proton Mail secure email. 
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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu May 11 10:13:41 2023
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:13:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
In-Reply-To: <ms463m5ui3covy205mwdjlqm.1683804915715@email.android.com>
References: <ms463m5ui3covy205mwdjlqm.1683804915715@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <7F531A56-ED94-4E77-ABD9-D792BEEC5B12@me.com>

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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Thu May 11 10:40:24 2023
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:40:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
In-Reply-To: <7F531A56-ED94-4E77-ABD9-D792BEEC5B12@me.com>
References: <ms463m5ui3covy205mwdjlqm.1683804915715@email.android.com>
	<7F531A56-ED94-4E77-ABD9-D792BEEC5B12@me.com>
Message-ID: <9bca6799-69db-4bcc-2be3-7e2f3ce453a4@gmail.com>

The ones that came with my Dell are all in one, and about the size of a 
stamp. But they do have a small LED, so likely active. I've got all the 
usual peripherals  - headphones and external HDs etc with the original 
USB type A plugs, which may or may not be USB 3 - but all seem to work 
OK. Another adaptor that came with the laptop does HDMI and USB A too.

The power supply for the laptop also plugs into one of the USB C ports. 
Says on it 130w. So I assume USB 3 isn't restricted to 5v?

On 11/05/2023 16:13, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> If looking for cheaper adaptors, don?t get fooled by charging adaptors 
> which only connect the power pins and have no data connections. ?On the 
> other hand, charging adaptors can be handy if you want to recharge your 
> phone from a USB socket in somewhere like a cafe where there is a chance 
> that the USB socket could connect to your phone and steal data. Without 
> the data connection, a malicious USB socket can?t do anything dodgy.
> 
> I haven?t tried those actual Amazon ones, but I know that a lot of 
> cheaper ones work OK and I haven?t heard of any not working, so I would 
> assume that they all do the job satisfactorily. ?However I?ve only used 
> them on fairly undemanding peripherals such as memory sticks, card 
> readers and an external ?hard drive. I have no idea how they might work 
> on peripherals where timing is critical and sizeable data streams need 
> to flow smoothly, such as with video digitisers, multi channel audio 
> interfaces and DVD writers. ?Those sort of devices occasionally have a 
> funny turn with some ordinary USB ports or hubs. If the Amazon adapters 
> didn?t work on Apple stuff, I would expect that lots of people would be 
> complaining about it in the reviews.
> 
> I don?t know whether the Apple USB C - USB adaptor does anything which 
> others don?t. ?It does seem rather pricey at about ?19. Their Lightning 
> to headphone adaptor sells for about ?10, which is uncharacteristically 
> reasonable. ?I know somebody who found a much cheaper ( maybe ?3 ) 
> alternative on eBay, but when he tried it on his wired earbuds, he 
> discovered that it was solely a headphone adaptor ( audio out and 
> nothing else ), it didn?t have an audio input for the microphone to make 
> phone calls, neither did it have the control logic for playing preferred 
> music tracks. For many people a headphone adaptor is all they need, but 
> others expect the adaptor to replicate everything possible when wired 
> earbuds were plugged into an iPhone with an 3.5mm socket.
> 
> The key information was in the small print of the eBay listing, but he 
> didn?t twig the significance of it and just assumed that a headphone 
> adapter is the same as an adapter for earbuds.
> 
> I have a special lead wired up with a 4pole Jack at one end and two BNC 
> connectors at the other ( not really BNC plugs, read on for explanation 
> ). ?By using an earbud adapter which handles two way audio, it feeds 
> timecode into my iPhone, which then uses an app to display it. ?The app 
> also generates timecode, which is fed to the other BNC. Making up the 
> lead was tricky because video cable is too chunky to fit into the 4 pole 
> Jack, while the cable from the Jack is too flimsy for the BNC. My 
> solution was to actually make a 4 pole Jack to 2x phono lead and then 
> pop on a phono to BNC adaptor. The phono is quite useful as it acts as a 
> quick release if a cameraman moves the camera abruptly while I?m still 
> plugged in. ?Otherwise the thin cable might snap.
> 
> .Alan
> 
> 
>> On 11 May 2023, at 12:35, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>>
> 
>> Here is the official expensive Apple adapter to convert a thunderbolt 
>> port to USB2. I would have thought the Amazon ones would work just as 
>> well. Anyone know for sure?
>>
>> Doug Puddifoot
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10 May 2023, at 17:17, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am in the process of upgrading my mac mini (reasons for this towards 
>> the end of email) and have got the latest M2 version. However, my old 
>> one has 4 USB ports, whereas the new one only has 2 and 2 thunderbolt 
>> ports (whatever they are). In my innocence, I assumed that all I 
>> needed to do was get an adaptor for USB to thunderbolt, but have been 
>> utterly baffled by online searches. Apparently there are now USB 2, 
>> USB 3, USB C etc. and thunderbolt 2, 3 and 4 as well. I have worked 
>> out that the higher the number, the 'faster' the connection speed, but 
>> as such, speed of transfer is not a problem, as when I'm transferring 
>> a large amount of data, I simply set up the transfer, and let the 
>> computer get on with it.
>>
>> I have also had suggestions that I need a 'hub', but then find they're 
>> upwards of ?200. Hey, all I want is a bit of wire with the right 
>> connectors to plug from one computer to another. Yesterday, when I 
>> went to the shop in Bangor where I've bought all sorts of phone and 
>> computer cables in the past, the man there was totally unfamiliar with 
>> 'thunderbolt' and couldn't find one when he did an online search.
>>
>> At present, all my peripherals are wired (quick nurse, the screens!) 
>> keyboard, mouse, time machine and portable hard disc recorder. Without 
>> resorting to wireless connections (new keyboard, mouse, etc. - more 
>> money) what's the answer?
>>
>> OK, reasons for the upgrade, and this is where previous discussions 
>> here have been useful, as my present provider, John Lewis, is stopping 
>> service, and I needed to find another, As it happens, Plusnet always 
>> provided the service for them, and I can confirm that other providers 
>> I investigated could not guarantee that I would retain my present 
>> phone number, how ridiculous. So, I have negotiated a similar deal to 
>> the one I have at present, but Plusnet insist on 'upgrading' my 
>> router. Since I'll have to do some rewiring anyway, I thought I'd do a 
>> complete overhaul of bits and pieces. Sadly, I've also realised that 
>> the router wi-fi password will change, and so I'll have to reset a 
>> couple of bits of equipment that rely on wi-fi. The new router, which 
>> arrived today, has a button marked WPS which claims to 'pair' a 
>> device. Am I correct in assuming that if I press this button, any 
>> device in the vicinity (that's powered up) will automatically connect 
>> of its own accord?
>>
>> And if you've read this far, do you think there are any other 
>> pitfalls, of which I am currently unaware, that may make themselves 
>> known in the process? Although the destructions for the new router 
>> claim it's simply 'plug and play', I am nevertheless backing up as 
>> many 'vital' files as necessary (on two separate hard discs) in the 
>> hope that no other ills can befall me.
>>
>> TeaTeaFN - Tony (baffled, bewildered, brassed off)
>>
>> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/> secure email.
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From alanaudio at me.com  Thu May 11 10:56:37 2023
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 16:56:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
In-Reply-To: <9bca6799-69db-4bcc-2be3-7e2f3ce453a4@gmail.com>
References: <9bca6799-69db-4bcc-2be3-7e2f3ce453a4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82F863A2-AFB5-4901-BAC5-1E93DEF74AF4@me.com>

> On 11 May 2023, at 16:40, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ? The power supply for the laptop also plugs into one of the USB C ports. Says on it 130w. So I assume USB 3 isn't restricted to 5v?

My understanding is that the power supply and laptop use the data connection to negotiate what power is available and what the device would like.  The voltage is then adjusted to provide the best compromise. I don?t know how high the voltage can go, but it?s pretty obvious that it would be a tall order getting 130W at 5v down a really thin cable because that would need 26 amps. It?s still rather impressive that you can get 130W through such a thin cable at whatever voltage it can deliver.

Alan

From mibridge at mac.com  Thu May 11 11:09:03 2023
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2023 17:09:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
In-Reply-To: <7F531A56-ED94-4E77-ABD9-D792BEEC5B12@me.com>
References: <ms463m5ui3covy205mwdjlqm.1683804915715@email.android.com>
	<7F531A56-ED94-4E77-ABD9-D792BEEC5B12@me.com>
Message-ID: <5D2BB7F4-CA04-41C8-84BD-421BFDFC3FEE@mac.com>

I bought a FITFORT USB C hub a while ago and it?s done all I need it to do.

?25 at present on Amazon : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Docking-Station-Adapter-Ethernet-Compatible-Gray/dp/B09H44S96B/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3OEV3OI374BIC&keywords=fitfort+usb+c+hub&qid=1683821215&sprefix=fitfort+usb%2Caps%2C69&sr=8-3

Other hubs are available.

Mike G

> On 11 May 2023, at 16:13, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> If looking for cheaper adaptors, don?t get fooled by charging adaptors which only connect the power pins and have no data connections.  On the other hand, charging adaptors can be handy if you want to recharge your phone from a USB socket in somewhere like a cafe where there is a chance that the USB socket could connect to your phone and steal data. Without the data connection, a malicious USB socket can?t do anything dodgy.
> 
> I haven?t tried those actual Amazon ones, but I know that a lot of cheaper ones work OK and I haven?t heard of any not working, so I would assume that they all do the job satisfactorily.  However I?ve only used them on fairly undemanding peripherals such as memory sticks, card readers and an external  hard drive. I have no idea how they might work on peripherals where timing is critical and sizeable data streams need to flow smoothly, such as with video digitisers, multi channel audio interfaces and DVD writers.  Those sort of devices occasionally have a funny turn with some ordinary USB ports or hubs. If the Amazon adapters didn?t work on Apple stuff, I would expect that lots of people would be complaining about it in the reviews.
> 
> I don?t know whether the Apple USB C - USB adaptor does anything which others don?t.  It does seem rather pricey at about ?19. Their Lightning to headphone adaptor sells for about ?10, which is uncharacteristically reasonable.  I know somebody who found a much cheaper ( maybe ?3 ) alternative on eBay, but when he tried it on his wired earbuds, he discovered that it was solely a headphone adaptor ( audio out and nothing else ), it didn?t have an audio input for the microphone to make phone calls, neither did it have the control logic for playing preferred music tracks. For many people a headphone adaptor is all they need, but others expect the adaptor to replicate everything possible when wired earbuds were plugged into an iPhone with an 3.5mm socket. 
> 
> The key information was in the small print of the eBay listing, but he didn?t twig the significance of it and just assumed that a headphone adapter is the same as an adapter for earbuds. 
> 
> I have a special lead wired up with a 4pole Jack at one end and two BNC connectors at the other ( not really BNC plugs, read on for explanation ).  By using an earbud adapter which handles two way audio, it feeds timecode into my iPhone, which then uses an app to display it.  The app also generates timecode, which is fed to the other BNC. Making up the lead was tricky because video cable is too chunky to fit into the 4 pole Jack, while the cable from the Jack is too flimsy for the BNC. My solution was to actually make a 4 pole Jack to 2x phono lead and then pop on a phono to BNC adaptor. The phono is quite useful as it acts as a quick release if a cameraman moves the camera abruptly while I?m still plugged in.  Otherwise the thin cable might snap.
> 
> .Alan
> 
> 
>> On 11 May 2023, at 12:35, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> 
>> 
> 
>> Here is the official expensive Apple adapter to convert a thunderbolt port to USB2. I would have thought the Amazon ones would work just as well. Anyone know for sure?
>> 
>> Doug Puddifoot
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 10 May 2023, at 17:17, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I am in the process of upgrading my mac mini (reasons for this towards the end of email) and have got the latest M2 version. However, my old one has 4 USB ports, whereas the new one only has 2 and 2 thunderbolt ports (whatever they are). In my innocence, I assumed that all I needed to do was get an adaptor for USB to thunderbolt, but have been utterly baffled by online searches. Apparently there are now USB 2, USB 3, USB C etc. and thunderbolt 2, 3 and 4 as well. I have worked out that the higher the number, the 'faster' the connection speed, but as such, speed of transfer is not a problem, as when I'm transferring a large amount of data, I simply set up the transfer, and let the computer get on with it.
>> 
>> I have also had suggestions that I need a 'hub', but then find they're upwards of ?200. Hey, all I want is a bit of wire with the right connectors to plug from one computer to another. Yesterday, when I went to the shop in Bangor where I've bought all sorts of phone and computer cables in the past, the man there was totally unfamiliar with 'thunderbolt' and couldn't find one when he did an online search.
>> 
>> At present, all my peripherals are wired (quick nurse, the screens!) keyboard, mouse, time machine and portable hard disc recorder. Without resorting to wireless connections (new keyboard, mouse, etc. - more money) what's the answer?
>> 
>> OK, reasons for the upgrade, and this is where previous discussions here have been useful, as my present provider, John Lewis, is stopping service, and I needed to find another, As it happens, Plusnet always provided the service for them, and I can confirm that other providers I investigated could not guarantee that I would retain my present phone number, how ridiculous. So, I have negotiated a similar deal to the one I have at present, but Plusnet insist on 'upgrading' my router. Since I'll have to do some rewiring anyway, I thought I'd do a complete overhaul of bits and pieces. Sadly, I've also realised that the router wi-fi password will change, and so I'll have to reset a couple of bits of equipment that rely on wi-fi. The new router, which arrived today, has a button marked WPS which claims to 'pair' a device. Am I correct in assuming that if I press this button, any device in the vicinity (that's powered up) will automatically connect of its own accord?
>> 
>> And if you've read this far, do you think there are any other pitfalls, of which I am currently unaware, that may make themselves known in the process? Although the destructions for the new router claim it's simply 'plug and play', I am nevertheless backing up as many 'vital' files as necessary (on two separate hard discs) in the hope that no other ills can befall me.
>> 
>> TeaTeaFN - Tony (baffled, bewildered, brassed off)
>> 
>> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/> secure email.
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue May 16 02:14:40 2023
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 08:14:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Scam message
In-Reply-To: <a044aaeb-6ae9-4986-8e8c-70679a3ad554@btinternet.com>
References: <70da2864-b771-2e36-db3d-4e2532346b7e@btinternet.com>
	<AD5E964E-F841-446A-995B-291BB1B57E08@me.com>
	<a044aaeb-6ae9-4986-8e8c-70679a3ad554@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <8ac6b113-fc36-0685-f4a7-e9a76b4b90e3@amps.net>

Continuing the subject of scam messages, received on Sunday 14th May is 
a message which is blatantly blackmail,
and quite nasty.

Anyone else got this? It's possible that my Guild's (AMPS) e-address 
list had been hacked a while ago.
I don't know how secure the Tech-ops list might be.

I have Malwarebytes, Avast Anti-Track, Avast Premium Security and 
CCleaner, all of which do not
show any invasion.

Attached is the text. I believe that the source originated from India.

Reported to *report at phishing.gov.uk* 
<mailto:report at phishing.gov.uk>**(Mike G - that is the correct thing to do)*
*

Let me know if you receive anything salacious referring to me.

Pat H

On 10/05/2023 16:32, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
> Thanks, Garth, I realised that today! It has many of the same scams 
> that I get daily from Amazon and bank and Visa security. Luckily, I 
> have persuaded my wife to ignore them otherwise she believes everyone 
> in the world is as honest as she is and would happily press button 1! 
> Cheers, Dave
>
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From peter.neill at icloud.com  Tue May 16 02:21:10 2023
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 08:21:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Stan Appel
Message-ID: <CDE9EBCF-0D4D-4655-BBA5-9B36EAC32D54@icloud.com>

For those who haven?t yet seen the news, Stan died yesterday morning. 

Peter Neill 

Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. 

From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue May 16 02:37:27 2023
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 08:37:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Scam message
In-Reply-To: <8ac6b113-fc36-0685-f4a7-e9a76b4b90e3@amps.net>
References: <70da2864-b771-2e36-db3d-4e2532346b7e@btinternet.com>
	<AD5E964E-F841-446A-995B-291BB1B57E08@me.com>
	<a044aaeb-6ae9-4986-8e8c-70679a3ad554@btinternet.com>
	<8ac6b113-fc36-0685-f4a7-e9a76b4b90e3@amps.net>
Message-ID: <5F9DF88C-6220-46E4-ADE0-5D4245FF8E18@icloud.com>

Haven?t seen one of those for about 20 years, used to be quite ?popular" at one time. Originally it was a credit card phishing scam.

> On 16 May 2023, at 08:14, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Continuing the subject of scam messages, received on Sunday 14th May is a message which is blatantly blackmail,
> and quite nasty.
> Anyone else got this? It's possible that my Guild's (AMPS) e-address list had been hacked a while ago.
> I don't know how secure the Tech-ops list might be.
> I have Malwarebytes, Avast Anti-Track, Avast Premium Security and CCleaner, all of which do not
> show any invasion.
> Attached is the text. I believe that the source originated from India.
> Reported to report at phishing.gov.uk (Mike G - that is the correct thing to do)
> Let me know if you receive anything salacious referring to me.
> Pat H
> On 10/05/2023 16:32, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
>> Thanks, Garth, I realised that today! It has many of the same scams that I get daily from Amazon and bank and Visa security. Luckily, I have persuaded my wife to ignore them otherwise she believes everyone in the world is as honest as she is and would happily press button 1! Cheers, Dave 
>> 
> <Scam blackmail.docx>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue May 16 03:09:48 2023
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 09:09:48 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Stan Appel
In-Reply-To: <CDE9EBCF-0D4D-4655-BBA5-9B36EAC32D54@icloud.com>
References: <CDE9EBCF-0D4D-4655-BBA5-9B36EAC32D54@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <91100b13-0500-48d1-ab75-27a6c946429e@amps.net>

Really sad to hear about Stan.
While I was never on his crew, he did ask me to shoot some colour 8mm 
film as a souvenir gift for Kathy Kirby,
when he was senior cameraman on her show.

A really nice man.

Pat H

On 16/05/2023 08:21, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote:
> For those who haven?t yet seen the news, Stan died yesterday morning.
>
> Peter Neill
>
> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions.
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Tue May 16 04:07:14 2023
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 10:07:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Stan Appel
Message-ID: <646347c2.b10.2a4c.4c7d@fireflyuk.net>



 I was on Stan's crew for a time and also worked on shows when he was 
on production detachment. He was of course, like the vast majority of 
those who rose to senior cameraman status, an all round thoroughly 
nice guy. I suppose it goes without saying that professional technical 
and artistic qualities do not of themselves make for good leaders and 
Stan had the extra abilities required to lead a camera crew 
effectively. I think as well that the word genial suits him to a tee.

Dave Newbitt.
>
> --- Original message ---
> Subject: [Tech1] Stan Appel
> From: Peter Neill via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> To: Tech Ops List <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: Tuesday, 16/05/2023 08:22:03
>
> For those who haven?t yet seen the news, Stan died yesterday 
> morning.
>
> Peter Neill
>
> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions.
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Tue May 16 04:34:08 2023
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 10:34:08 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Ken Major
Message-ID: <137f4b6f-e0f4-0dad-b3ae-cf827f6b2b2a@gmail.com>

And according to FB, Ken Major has died. Two extremely nice collegues 
gone so close together.
-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Tue May 16 05:05:17 2023
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 11:05:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Ken Major
Message-ID: <6463555d.b10.2310.1218@fireflyuk.net>


 Heartily endorse that Dave.

Dave Newbitt.
>
> --- Original message ---
> Subject: [Tech1] Ken Major
> From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> To: TechOps <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: Tuesday, 16/05/2023 10:34:42
>
> And according to FB, Ken Major has died. Two extremely nice collegues
> gone so close together.
> --
> Dave Plowman
> London, SW
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue May 16 14:43:41 2023
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2023 20:43:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Your latest bill is online
In-Reply-To: <1226127560.4804767.1684254605586@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1226127560.4804767.1684254605586@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <02eb3b69-de51-13c6-24c9-3637130df716@btinternet.com>

Another new one to me! Forwarded to report@ etc. Cheers, Dave


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Sincerely,
*
**Btinternet Service Inc*
2023 Btinternet. All Rights Reserv
BSl?accredited




From kenneth.major1 at outlook.com  Wed May 17 09:26:35 2023
From: kenneth.major1 at outlook.com (Kenneth Major)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 14:26:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Kenneth Spackman Major
Message-ID: <VE1P190MB0960BE319E148D1E4A7D66F6CF7E9@VE1P190MB0960.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Dearest Bernie,

It's Phil Major, Ken Major's son here.

It is with great sadness that I'm emailing you to inform you that our lovely, beautiful, warm, funny, vastly knowledgeable father, Kenneth Spackman Major (89) passed on Monday the 15th of May 2023 @ 19:50

He will be missed incredibly by his children Emma, Joanna and Philip, his three grandchildren and his son in law's Andrew, Ian and Daughter in law Sandi.

After a life well lived, he is now at peace and finally with his beloved wife Doreen.

There is a funeral planned for the 23rd  of June 2023 @ 12.00 @ Mortlake Crematorium with the wake location TBC. We welcome all of Dad's friends and colleagues to join us in celebrating him.

Dad's life at the BBC gave him such happiness and fulfillment and he always recalled those days so fondly. Not just for the enjoyment of the work but more importantly for the friends and lasting bonds that he made, as well as the place where he met his wife.
He always spoke with the greatest joy, respect and warmth in regards to his colleagues,  but also in the later years with deep sadness when losing people from this era.

To quote  Ken himself when we spoke to him about his preferences for a send-off :

"I would like the whole of Tech-ops there"

Any of the Tech ops crew or contacts from the Beeb, please feel free to email back on this address or to phil_major at hotmail.com<mailto:phil_major at hotmail.com>  (his son) or to the Tech ops mailing list.

There is a post on a 'Memories of TVC / BBC' Facebook page by Ian Head, which is open to comments and we, his family, have access to this.

We are hoping to piece together a worthy obituary for Prospero with the help of Stuart Lindley, Ed Stuart and Ian Head to cover his fantastic career and any snippets from the TO crew would be well received.

Best wishes
Phil, Sandi, Emma, Jo & Ian

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From techtone at protonmail.com  Wed May 17 09:39:06 2023
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2023 14:39:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
In-Reply-To: <645cbf71.b10.28bc.1113@fireflyuk.net>
References: <645cbf71.b10.28bc.1113@fireflyuk.net>
Message-ID: <RtKo3nCDBi-Mk9T4S-wBbyCFG8D5WztAJGX09QnyjZOMd4j7U4y7phnMXLaF0hBR7phMMC5ZJJryoDqjUDcNKGqGr5ZZPWLmcAiaBlVPDdU=@protonmail.com>

My grateful thanks to all who replied. I now have all the connecting bits I need, and await the changeover day to plusnet which should be next Monday. I have confirmed that I can change the wi-fi password on the new router to that of my old one, thus saving me trying to access some stupidly placed controls on various other devices.

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.

------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, May 11th, 2023 at 11:12, dnewbitt--- via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> As ever with Alan a full and erudite explanation of the overall picture. Hopefully we've all got it now! In my amateur piece I referred to compatibility of USB and lightning in an incorrect way and am happy to acknowledge.
>
> Dave Newbitt
>
>> --- Original message ---
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help with mac mini cabling please
>> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> To: tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Date: Thursday, 11/05/2023 11:01:44
>>
>> There is lots of potential confusion because so many names have been bandied about and there are lots of variants of each standard, just as there are lots of variants of HDMI ports. Technology keeps advancing and they modify standards to accommodate new opportunities.
>>
>> In simple terms, when talking to non-technical people, I prefer to refer simply to USB ( the familiar one where you always plug it in the wrong way up ) and USB C ( with rounded ends and can be plugged in either way up ). For most people, Thunderbolt = USB C. If you are doing something which takes advantages of the more esoteric possibilities of Thunderbolt or USB4, then you?re probably clued up enough to know about the variants and how it differs from USB C.
>>
>> Just as with variants of HDMI, all USB C ports use the same USB C connector, but the difference between the variants is down to the protocol used by the driving electronics.
>>
>> Lightning connectors as found on iPhones from 2010 onwards predate USB C and have many shared features, but they are not compatible. Much of the technology in USB C can be found within Lightning and it was quite a straightforward task to make a simple adapter allowing USB C devices to plug into a lightning port, but you can?t simply plug one into the other.
>>
>> A Lightning connector has contacts on the side, eight per side, while USB C has two rows of twelve pins within the metal shroud. The shape and dimensions are similar, but slightly different. [ Image ]
>>
>> In my picture Lightning is the white one, USB C the grey one.
>>
>> Bottom line, if you think of USB without a suffix as being the traditional rectangular one and USB C ( and Thunderbolt ) as being the new, rounded one, in most cases you can plug any USB device into a USB socket, or you can plug any USB C peripheral into any USB C / Thunderbolt socket. You can get cheap adaptors to plug USB into USB C sockets, but I?m not aware of any that allow USB C to be plugged into USB ( old type ).
>>
>> Lightning connectors are reaching the end of their lifespan because the EU has mandated that all phones sold in the EU will have to have a USB C connector. It?s widely rumoured that the next IPhone will have the USB C port. Some iPads already use it, as do Apple laptops and accessories.
>>
>> One further point is that the USB C connector can carry quite significant amounts of power. A computer might deliver a pretty useful 15W via USB C, but USB C power supplies can deliver 100W or more, although you would need a suitably rated cable to handle it.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>> On 11 May 2023, at 08:32, dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net wrote:
>>
>>> ?
>>> Is there some typo or other confusion setting in here? USB3 and its developments (USB3.1 etc) use the same connector as USB and USB2, it's USBC which is compatible with Lightning and which uses an 'either way up' connector. As Dave P observes USBC to USB2/3 leads are just fine.
>>> Date Newbitt.
>>>
>>> On Thursday 11/05/2023 at 00:46:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>
>>>> You?re quite right. To all intents and purposes, a casual user can simply think of Thunderbolt ports as being USB3 ports. It?s exactly the same connector, it?s the electronics which differs.
>>>>
>>>> Essentially the Thunderbolt ports are an enhanced variant of USB3. There are four specifications, USB3, USB4, Thunderbolt 3 & Thunderbolt 4. Each one is a bit more refined than the previous one.
>>>>
>>>> Speed wise they respectively handle 10, 20, 40 & 40Gb/sec.
>>>>
>>>> Power handling is 4.5, 7.5, 15 & 15W
>>>>
>>>> You can run a 4K monitor via them all, but Thunderbolt 4 is guaranteed to support two 4k monitors simultaneously.
>>>>
>>>> Most of us have USB2 peripherals these days and before that we used serial, parallel or SCSSI interfaces, but over time we mostly converged onto USB2. Future peripherals will likely be USB3 or Thunderbolt because the performance is so much better. Tony?s new computer has a foot in the past, but is looking to the future too, by having USB2 and Thunderbolt ports.
>>>>
>>>> You can buy simple plug-in adaptors to connect USB2 things into USB3 ports. I got some on eBay for a little over a pound each so that old USB memory sticks can plug into USB3 ports.
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>> On 10 May 2023, at 23:47, Dave Plowman ringvia Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?Not an expert on Macs, but thought USB C and Thunderbolt 3 were compatible?
>>>>>
>>>>> My PC laptop came with only USB C (that's the connector which you can invert, unlike other USB), and came with simple small adaptors to USB A and everything I have with USB A works just fine with that.
>>>>>
>>>>> As regards Wi-Fi paring, you need to get the device to attempt to connect to your network, then press the WPS button on the router. My router isn't that accessible (in the cellar) so find it easier to simply enter the passcode. It's not like it has to be done often.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it's anything like here, I can 'see' 10 Wi-Fi networks on a good day, so worth accessing your new router and giving your own and easily recognisable name. If the PlusNet router is the same as my BT one, it's a nice bit of kit. You can do things like name all your various network bits in the router menu.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dave Plowman
>>>>> London, SW
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From philiptyler at me.com  Sat May 20 08:30:58 2023
From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2023 14:30:58 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Credit card scams.
Message-ID: <5E7F0B7B-6EF2-454F-9738-9722FB3780E6@me.com>

So this morning I received a couple of texts concerning transactions of ?0.01 by two companies on my credit card.
I did not respond to these texts, instead I googled the number the text came from.
It came up as a scam alert!
So I forwarded the texts to 7726 SPAM.
A little while later I got a phone call supposedly from said credit card company. But how am I to know? So I declined giving them any information.
Googling that number it came up as a scam alert again.
So using the credit card app I had an online chat and was asked to phone them on a given number.
As usually I was left on hold until I lost the will and hung up.
Later I discovered my card was declined for a payment. So thought I better contact said card company. This time I used another number and was answered fairly quickly.
It was them that sent me the texts and it was them that rang me. So I pointed out that their numbers when googled come as being a scam.
My card had indeed been used for two ?0.01 transactions. I confirmed these transactions were nothing to do with me. So that card is now permanently blocked and a new card is on its way.

Why they didn?t contact me through the app I don?t know. Previous large transactions I have had to confirm in the app. Where I can also add them as a trusted retailer.

Another day another scam thwarted.

Keep Vigilant!

Philip and Bee

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/
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From barry-wilkinson at sky.com  Sat May 20 10:07:16 2023
From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2023 16:07:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Credit card scams.
In-Reply-To: <5E7F0B7B-6EF2-454F-9738-9722FB3780E6@me.com>
References: <5E7F0B7B-6EF2-454F-9738-9722FB3780E6@me.com>
Message-ID: <9781CE91-0D7F-4A24-8FCD-9070D5F61D45@sky.com>

My friend had a letter to his correct address with NHS on the header. It was offering future health checks to see if he was liable to be susceptible to many diseases .
There was a link to go to where he was offered for a mere ?3000.00 a dna check and for an extra ?200 a month they would store his dna. Needless to say at 76 years old he declined the generous offer. I will post a copy of the letter to show how genuine it looked.



Sent from my iPad

> On 20 May 2023, at 14:31, Philip Tyler via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?So this morning I received a couple of texts concerning transactions of ?0.01 by two companies on my credit card.
> I did not respond to these texts, instead I googled the number the text came from.
> It came up as a scam alert!
> So I forwarded the texts to 7726 SPAM.
> A little while later I got a phone call supposedly from said credit card company. But how am I to know? So I declined giving them any information.
> Googling that number it came up as a scam alert again.
> So using the credit card app I had an online chat and was asked to phone them on a given number.
> As usually I was left on hold until I lost the will and hung up.
> Later I discovered my card was declined for a payment. So thought I better contact said card company. This time I used another number and was answered fairly quickly.
> It was them that sent me the texts and it was them that rang me. So I pointed out that their numbers when googled come as being a scam.
> My card had indeed been used for two ?0.01 transactions. I confirmed these transactions were nothing to do with me. So that card is now permanently blocked and a new card is on its way.
> 
> Why they didn?t contact me through the app I don?t know. Previous large transactions I have had to confirm in the app. Where I can also add them as a trusted retailer.
> 
> Another day another scam thwarted.
> 
> Keep Vigilant!
> 
> Philip and Bee
> 
> https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Sat May 20 11:59:48 2023
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2023 17:59:48 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Credit card scams.
In-Reply-To: <9781CE91-0D7F-4A24-8FCD-9070D5F61D45@sky.com>
References: <5E7F0B7B-6EF2-454F-9738-9722FB3780E6@me.com>
	<9781CE91-0D7F-4A24-8FCD-9070D5F61D45@sky.com>
Message-ID: <d8a279d4-17c3-e5af-ec72-6b38aa1b1170@gmail.com>

It is simply so easy these days to make a letter or electronic version 
look like the real thing. No wonder our wonderful government have 
removed fraud statistics from the crime figures, so they can claim they 
are reducing. After all, what would be less risky? Robbing a train or 
bullion van, or sitting at home while the money pours in?

On 20/05/2023 16:07, B Wilkinson via Tech1 wrote:
> My friend had a letter to his correct address with NHS on the header. It 
> was offering future health checks to see if he was liable to be 
> susceptible to many diseases .
> There was a link to go to where he was offered for a mere ?3000.00 a dna 
> check and for an extra ?200 a month they would store his dna. Needless 
> to say at 76 years old he declined the generous offer. I will post a 
> copy of the letter to show how genuine it looked.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 20 May 2023, at 14:31, Philip Tyler via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?So this morning I received a couple of texts concerning transactions 
>> of ?0.01 by two companies on my credit card.
>> I did not respond to these texts, instead I googled the number the 
>> text came from.
>> It came up as a scam alert!
>> So I forwarded the texts to 7726 SPAM.
>> A little while later I got a phone call supposedly from said credit 
>> card company. But how am I to know? So I declined giving them any 
>> information.
>> Googling that number it came up as a scam alert again.
>> So using the credit card app I had an online chat and was asked to 
>> phone them on a given number.
>> As usually I was left on hold until I lost the will and hung up.
>> Later I discovered my card was declined for a payment. So thought I 
>> better contact said card company. This time I used another number and 
>> was answered fairly quickly.
>> It was them that sent me the texts and it was them that rang me. So I 
>> pointed out that their numbers when googled come as being a scam.
>> My card had indeed been used for two ?0.01 transactions. I confirmed 
>> these transactions were nothing to do with me. So that card is now 
>> permanently blocked and a new card is on its way.
>>
>> Why they didn?t contact me through the app I don?t know. Previous 
>> large transactions I have had to confirm in the app. Where I can also 
>> add them as a trusted retailer.
>>
>> Another day another scam thwarted.
>>
>> Keep Vigilant!
>>
>> Philip and Bee
>>
>> https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/ <https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From barry-wilkinson at sky.com  Sat May 20 12:48:58 2023
From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson)
Date: Sat, 20 May 2023 18:48:58 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Credit card scams.
In-Reply-To: <d8a279d4-17c3-e5af-ec72-6b38aa1b1170@gmail.com>
References: <d8a279d4-17c3-e5af-ec72-6b38aa1b1170@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <922FEAF8-B0CD-4432-949C-A0A26EC325FB@sky.com>

Sorry I could not edit the pdf to remove my friends details so cannot put it up here.

Sent from my iPad

> On 20 May 2023, at 18:00, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?It is simply so easy these days to make a letter or electronic version look like the real thing. No wonder our wonderful government have removed fraud statistics from the crime figures, so they can claim they are reducing. After all, what would be less risky? Robbing a train or bullion van, or sitting at home while the money pours in?
> 
>> On 20/05/2023 16:07, B Wilkinson via Tech1 wrote:
>> My friend had a letter to his correct address with NHS on the header. It was offering future health checks to see if he was liable to be susceptible to many diseases .
>> There was a link to go to where he was offered for a mere ?3000.00 a dna check and for an extra ?200 a month they would store his dna. Needless to say at 76 years old he declined the generous offer. I will post a copy of the letter to show how genuine it looked.
>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> On 20 May 2023, at 14:31, Philip Tyler via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?So this morning I received a couple of texts concerning transactions of ?0.01 by two companies on my credit card.
>>> I did not respond to these texts, instead I googled the number the text came from.
>>> It came up as a scam alert!
>>> So I forwarded the texts to 7726 SPAM.
>>> A little while later I got a phone call supposedly from said credit card company. But how am I to know? So I declined giving them any information.
>>> Googling that number it came up as a scam alert again.
>>> So using the credit card app I had an online chat and was asked to phone them on a given number.
>>> As usually I was left on hold until I lost the will and hung up.
>>> Later I discovered my card was declined for a payment. So thought I better contact said card company. This time I used another number and was answered fairly quickly.
>>> It was them that sent me the texts and it was them that rang me. So I pointed out that their numbers when googled come as being a scam.
>>> My card had indeed been used for two ?0.01 transactions. I confirmed these transactions were nothing to do with me. So that card is now permanently blocked and a new card is on its way.
>>> 
>>> Why they didn?t contact me through the app I don?t know. Previous large transactions I have had to confirm in the app. Where I can also add them as a trusted retailer.
>>> 
>>> Another day another scam thwarted.
>>> 
>>> Keep Vigilant!
>>> 
>>> Philip and Bee
>>> 
>>> https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/ <https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Dave Plowman
> London, SW
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun May 21 15:58:03 2023
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2023 21:58:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hunting Hitler
Message-ID: <c7aa81c9-28a4-9b0e-1c17-739f1232b537@btinternet.com>

I assume that you are all hooked on this series on Quest (2400 Saturday 
nights, Freeview 12 ) They have been looking into the Nazi's shipping of 
heavy water out of Norway. It's a pity that they have never watched the 
movie 'Heroes of Telemark' which would have answerd all of their 
questions!Duh! Cheers, Dave


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon May 22 03:02:46 2023
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2023 09:02:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hunting Hitler
In-Reply-To: <c7aa81c9-28a4-9b0e-1c17-739f1232b537@btinternet.com>
References: <c7aa81c9-28a4-9b0e-1c17-739f1232b537@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1fa0000d-1667-1a90-509f-dc76b0af06b5@amps.net>

The trouble is that 'Heroes of Telemark' is not a very good film.
It's dressed up for the grannies attending the afternoon matinee with a 
totally ficticious romantic episode.

A very much better version is a 1948 Norwegian/French production 
'Operation Swallow' shot as a drama-documentary,
all the more grittier for being in B/W. I remember being quite impressed 
with it.

I've tracked down a DVD at $11, but I think it's a pirated disc.
Some info here:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0040504/

Pat H

On 21/05/2023 21:58, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
> I assume that you are all hooked on this series on Quest (2400 
> Saturday nights, Freeview 12 ) They have been looking into the Nazi's 
> shipping of heavy water out of Norway. It's a pity that they have 
> never watched the movie 'Heroes of Telemark' which would have answerd 
> all of their questions!Duh! Cheers, Dave
> ? copy
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon May 22 03:20:42 2023
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2023 09:20:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Credit card scams.
In-Reply-To: <922FEAF8-B0CD-4432-949C-A0A26EC325FB@sky.com>
References: <d8a279d4-17c3-e5af-ec72-6b38aa1b1170@gmail.com>
	<922FEAF8-B0CD-4432-949C-A0A26EC325FB@sky.com>
Message-ID: <be9b10e7-2974-c996-297c-fed03739cbaa@amps.net>

Hi Barry,

There's a company (Soda) which produces conversion programmes. (free).

For instance PDF to JPG then use a PhotoShop or similar to manipulate.

They do one to combine multiple PDF's to a single PDF file which I find 
useful
when submitting medical claims to insurers!

Regards

Pat H

On 20/05/2023 18:48, B Wilkinson via Tech1 wrote:
> Sorry I could not edit the pdf to remove my friends details so cannot put it up here.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 20 May 2023, at 18:00, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?It is simply so easy these days to make a letter or electronic version look like the real thing. No wonder our wonderful government have removed fraud statistics from the crime figures, so they can claim they are reducing. After all, what would be less risky? Robbing a train or bullion van, or sitting at home while the money pours in?


From hughsnape at talktalk.net  Mon May 22 03:30:15 2023
From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2023 09:30:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Credit card scams.
In-Reply-To: <be9b10e7-2974-c996-297c-fed03739cbaa@amps.net>
References: <be9b10e7-2974-c996-297c-fed03739cbaa@amps.net>
Message-ID: <983AACA1-424A-4959-87DE-200015699360@talktalk.net>

If you have Mac the Preview application can also do those things . . .

Hugh

> On 22 May 2023, at 09:21, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi Barry,
> 
> There's a company (Soda) which produces conversion programmes. (free).
> 
> For instance PDF to JPG then use a PhotoShop or similar to manipulate.
> 
> They do one to combine multiple PDF's to a single PDF file which I find useful
> when submitting medical claims to insurers!
> 
> Regards
> 
> Pat H
> 
>> On 20/05/2023 18:48, B Wilkinson via Tech1 wrote:
>> Sorry I could not edit the pdf to remove my friends details so cannot put it up here.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On 20 May 2023, at 18:00, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?It is simply so easy these days to make a letter or electronic version look like the real thing. No wonder our wonderful government have removed fraud statistics from the crime figures, so they can claim they are reducing. After all, what would be less risky? Robbing a train or bullion van, or sitting at home while the money pours in?
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon May 22 07:23:19 2023
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2023 13:23:19 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Credit card scams.
In-Reply-To: <983AACA1-424A-4959-87DE-200015699360@talktalk.net>
References: <be9b10e7-2974-c996-297c-fed03739cbaa@amps.net>
	<983AACA1-424A-4959-87DE-200015699360@talktalk.net>
Message-ID: <660e203b-6f65-f702-3d72-bbcb2d094ce6@amps.net>

I can't help but equate the Mac v. PC argument with the Beta v. VHS 
situation.

There are folks who prefer Mac to PC. Free choice.

I heard that a large rental firm were about to flood their shops with 
video machines,
and invited Reps of both systems to an evaluation discussion.
Sony never turned up, so VHS won the day. Pity, as the Betamax was the 
better system.

Betamax transmogrified into Betacam, using the same cassette but with 
the tape speed
3x faster. Very good quality, and Digibeta followed.

Even my little Sony Handycam records to an SD card! and in 16:9 HiDef!

Pat H

On 22/05/2023 09:30, Hugh Snape wrote:
> If you have Mac the Preview application can also do those things . . .
>
> Hugh
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Mon May 22 07:48:30 2023
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2023 13:48:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Credit card scams.
In-Reply-To: <660e203b-6f65-f702-3d72-bbcb2d094ce6@amps.net>
References: <be9b10e7-2974-c996-297c-fed03739cbaa@amps.net>
	<983AACA1-424A-4959-87DE-200015699360@talktalk.net>
	<660e203b-6f65-f702-3d72-bbcb2d094ce6@amps.net>
Message-ID: <CAA0HHB35tLUaLFETAdeE-WgKuJGncOpEhnSfGUov4+yGCPH4EQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
Another reason for VHS v BetaMax was that VHS offered machines to schools
about a year before offering it to the public -  so teachers and pupils got
used to it before BetaMax came along ...
Best regards Alec



Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections...

On Mon, 22 May 2023, 13:23 Pat Heigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> I can't help but equate the Mac v. PC argument with the Beta v. VHS
> situation.
>
> There are folks who prefer Mac to PC. Free choice.
>
> I heard that a large rental firm were about to flood their shops with
> video machines,
> and invited Reps of both systems to an evaluation discussion.
> Sony never turned up, so VHS won the day. Pity, as the Betamax was the
> better system.
>
> Betamax transmogrified into Betacam, using the same cassette but with the
> tape speed
> 3x faster. Very good quality, and Digibeta followed.
>
> Even my little Sony Handycam records to an SD card! and in 16:9 HiDef!
>
> Pat H
> On 22/05/2023 09:30, Hugh Snape wrote:
>
> If you have Mac the Preview application can also do those things . . .
>
> Hugh
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Mon May 22 07:50:12 2023
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2023 13:50:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Credit card scams.
In-Reply-To: <CAA0HHB35tLUaLFETAdeE-WgKuJGncOpEhnSfGUov4+yGCPH4EQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <be9b10e7-2974-c996-297c-fed03739cbaa@amps.net>
	<983AACA1-424A-4959-87DE-200015699360@talktalk.net>
	<660e203b-6f65-f702-3d72-bbcb2d094ce6@amps.net>
	<CAA0HHB35tLUaLFETAdeE-WgKuJGncOpEhnSfGUov4+yGCPH4EQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8A119D9C-4BDD-4952-B9FB-C92E96ABE7E5@icloud.com>

Also, allegedly, the American porn industry adopted it early on.

> On 22 May 2023, at 13:48, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> Another reason for VHS v BetaMax was that VHS offered machines to schools about a year before offering it to the public -  so teachers and pupils got used to it before BetaMax came along ... 
> Best regards Alec 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections...
> 
> On Mon, 22 May 2023, 13:23 Pat Heigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I can't help but equate the Mac v. PC argument with the Beta v. VHS situation.
> There are folks who prefer Mac to PC. Free choice.
> I heard that a large rental firm were about to flood their shops with video machines,
> and invited Reps of both systems to an evaluation discussion.
> Sony never turned up, so VHS won the day. Pity, as the Betamax was the better system.
> Betamax transmogrified into Betacam, using the same cassette but with the tape speed
> 3x faster. Very good quality, and Digibeta followed.
> Even my little Sony Handycam records to an SD card! and in 16:9 HiDef!
> Pat H
> On 22/05/2023 09:30, Hugh Snape wrote:
>> If you have Mac the Preview application can also do those things . . .
>> 
>> Hugh
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Mon May 22 11:06:53 2023
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2023 17:06:53 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hunting Hitler
In-Reply-To: <1fa0000d-1667-1a90-509f-dc76b0af06b5@amps.net>
References: <c7aa81c9-28a4-9b0e-1c17-739f1232b537@btinternet.com>
	<1fa0000d-1667-1a90-509f-dc76b0af06b5@amps.net>
Message-ID: <51789497-65d4-a02f-7727-09d09b3ad7eb@btinternet.com>

There's  nothing wrong with romantic episodes, Pat, you should try one - 
it might put a bit of lead in your pencil! Cheers, Dave


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Mon May 22 20:16:00 2023
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2023 02:16:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hunting Hitler
In-Reply-To: <65927840-686e-fee6-5ff4-73e766211346@amps.net>
References: <c7aa81c9-28a4-9b0e-1c17-739f1232b537@btinternet.com>
	<1fa0000d-1667-1a90-509f-dc76b0af06b5@amps.net>
	<51789497-65d4-a02f-7727-09d09b3ad7eb@btinternet.com>
	<65927840-686e-fee6-5ff4-73e766211346@amps.net>
Message-ID: <f83fd009-641a-56e8-9450-8ca5f9a1ee7c@btinternet.com>

Ouch! That's painful! Still, at least it stops you playing with it! 
Cheers, Dave


From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Thu May 25 09:21:06 2023
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 15:21:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Credit card scams.
In-Reply-To: <660e203b-6f65-f702-3d72-bbcb2d094ce6@amps.net>
References: <be9b10e7-2974-c996-297c-fed03739cbaa@amps.net>
	<983AACA1-424A-4959-87DE-200015699360@talktalk.net>
	<660e203b-6f65-f702-3d72-bbcb2d094ce6@amps.net>
Message-ID: <af6331cd-2b13-2aa1-730f-81e0501be34b@gmail.com>

And VHS transmogrified into MII, which used the same dimensions cassette 
as VHS. Arguably better than BetaCam as MII met the IBA spec for all 
video recorder uses.

DigiBeta was something else, though. Had one in the dubbing suite for a 
minor soap and it was a super machine to use.


On 22/05/2023 13:23, Pat Heigham wrote:
> I can't help but equate the Mac v. PC argument with the Beta v. VHS 
> situation.
> 
> There are folks who prefer Mac to PC. Free choice.
> 
> I heard that a large rental firm were about to flood their shops with 
> video machines,
> and invited Reps of both systems to an evaluation discussion.
> Sony never turned up, so VHS won the day. Pity, as the Betamax was the 
> better system.
> 
> Betamax transmogrified into Betacam, using the same cassette but with 
> the tape speed
> 3x faster. Very good quality, and Digibeta followed.
> 
> Even my little Sony Handycam records to an SD card! and in 16:9 HiDef!
> 
> Pat H
> 
> On 22/05/2023 09:30, Hugh Snape wrote:
>> If you have Mac the Preview application can also do those things . . .
>>
>> Hugh

-- 
Dave Plowman
London, SW


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Thu May 25 11:50:52 2023
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2023 17:50:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Credit card scams.
In-Reply-To: <af6331cd-2b13-2aa1-730f-81e0501be34b@gmail.com>
References: <be9b10e7-2974-c996-297c-fed03739cbaa@amps.net>
	<983AACA1-424A-4959-87DE-200015699360@talktalk.net>
	<660e203b-6f65-f702-3d72-bbcb2d094ce6@amps.net>
	<af6331cd-2b13-2aa1-730f-81e0501be34b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4dbb9dbb-c6e0-9a0b-6605-0f568ccddcaf@chriswoolf.co.uk>

The MII might have been able to pass some tests marginally better (when 
fully tweaked up) but in mechanical terms it wasn't a patch on the 
Betas. The lace-up mech was horrendously clumsy.

The massive vote-with-feet for Betacam tells you everything you need to 
know - Panasonic might have won the domestic fight but Sony surpassed 
the professional one hands down.

I've worked on a lot of Betacam mechs, and a moderate few digibetas over 
the years, and they really were a very good design, capable of long and 
arduous use, and pretty easy to service.

Chris Woolf



On 25/05/2023 15:21, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> And VHS transmogrified into MII, which used the same dimensions 
> cassette as VHS. Arguably better than BetaCam as MII met the IBA spec 
> for all video recorder uses.
>
> DigiBeta was something else, though. Had one in the dubbing suite for 
> a minor soap and it was a super machine to use.
>
>
> On 22/05/2023 13:23, Pat Heigham wrote:
>> I can't help but equate the Mac v. PC argument with the Beta v. VHS 
>> situation.
>>
>> There are folks who prefer Mac to PC. Free choice.
>>
>> I heard that a large rental firm were about to flood their shops with 
>> video machines,
>> and invited Reps of both systems to an evaluation discussion.
>> Sony never turned up, so VHS won the day. Pity, as the Betamax was 
>> the better system.
>>
>> Betamax transmogrified into Betacam, using the same cassette but with 
>> the tape speed
>> 3x faster. Very good quality, and Digibeta followed.
>>
>> Even my little Sony Handycam records to an SD card! and in 16:9 HiDef!
>>
>> Pat H
>>
>> On 22/05/2023 09:30, Hugh Snape wrote:
>>> If you have Mac the Preview application can also do those things . . .
>>>
>>> Hugh
>


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri May 26 05:36:30 2023
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 11:36:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration
Message-ID: <9ea37463-5707-4d6c-efbd-f11f73ace4e9@amps.net>

A bit different from cameras and sound topics......!

Can anyone recommend or has experience of expert furniture restorers, 
preferably in Surrey.

I inherited a drum table which due to modern central heating, has bits 
falling off as the glue
dries out.

Watching the 'Repair Shop', I am amazed at the skill of the specialist 
restorers and
wonder if there is a commercial service - probably expensive!

best
Pat H
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Fri May 26 05:46:55 2023
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 11:46:55 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration
In-Reply-To: <9ea37463-5707-4d6c-efbd-f11f73ace4e9@amps.net>
References: <9ea37463-5707-4d6c-efbd-f11f73ace4e9@amps.net>
Message-ID: <306d7ed6-1571-9902-6ae7-522d5af0eac3@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Certainly don't know anyone.... but this is actually quite easy to do 
yourself, albeit that it takes time.

Essentially, all you do is find a single piece of the "jigsaw", create a 
method of holding it in place, and glue it back. The holding can be 
clamps, elastic bands, pieces of webbing, anything - you (or the 
restorer) will have to invent something to put even pressure on each 
jigsaw puzzle piece.

The adhesive you use depends on the value of the furniture. If it is 
very old and valuable you need to use an original animal-based glue, 
though that will come apart again in hot, difficult environments. If it 
is? a lesser piece, you can use a PVA based version - easier and less messy.

I've repaired a long case clock where the entire case had come apart - 
it had to be held together with parcel tape - and veneers were dropping 
off everywhere. You would be hard pushed to see where it had been glued 
back together now. It just took a long time, working on a single joint 
or veneer at a go.

Chris Woolf


On 26/05/2023 11:36, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> A bit different from cameras and sound topics......!
>
> Can anyone recommend or has experience of expert furniture restorers, 
> preferably in Surrey.
>
> I inherited a drum table which due to modern central heating, has bits 
> falling off as the glue
> dries out.
>
> Watching the 'Repair Shop', I am amazed at the skill of the specialist 
> restorers and
> wonder if there is a commercial service - probably expensive!
>
> best
> Pat H
>
>
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From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Fri May 26 05:53:45 2023
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 11:53:45 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration
In-Reply-To: <9ea37463-5707-4d6c-efbd-f11f73ace4e9@amps.net>
References: <9ea37463-5707-4d6c-efbd-f11f73ace4e9@amps.net>
Message-ID: <001801d98fc0$58070c50$081524f0$@gmail.com>

Pat,

I believe Will Kirk, the wood expert on Repair Shop has a restoration business based in Wandsworth

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Pat Heigham via Tech1
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 11:37 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration

 

A bit different from cameras and sound topics......!

Can anyone recommend or has experience of expert furniture restorers, preferably in Surrey.

I inherited a drum table which due to modern central heating, has bits falling off as the glue
dries out.

Watching the 'Repair Shop', I am amazed at the skill of the specialist restorers and
wonder if there is a commercial service - probably expensive!

best
Pat H

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From alanaudio at me.com  Fri May 26 06:57:49 2023
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2023 12:57:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration
In-Reply-To: <306d7ed6-1571-9902-6ae7-522d5af0eac3@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <306d7ed6-1571-9902-6ae7-522d5af0eac3@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <74666651-2C65-4137-BDFF-1AFB2BEC546D@me.com>

The hot glue traditionally used by cabinet makers is called pearl glue or hide glue.  It looks like amber coloured granules which melt at moderate temperatures. I first bought some from Clay brothers, who used to have an amazing Aladdin?s cave of a shop opposite the Ealing film studios. When I needed some more in recent times, I was introduced to a guy near where I used to live who made cellos.  He gave me a little bagful which was just enough to do the job I needed it for.  I?m sure that you should be able to source some online, either from craftsman woodworking suppliers, eBay or specialist luthiers.

Although you?re supposed to use special glue pots, I?ve used an old tin can or a very cheap saucepan, heating it either on my hob or a portable gas stove. It just needs keeping an eye on so that it doesn?t get too hot.

It?s a brilliant adhesive to use and impressively strong.  I?ve veneered small loudspeaker enclosures and HiFi housings and also repaired antique veneer. The way I did it was to heat the main part of the wood ( substrate ) with a hair dryer, brush on the hot glue and once the veneer had been placed, any air bubbles need to be squeezed out.  I used a small wallpaper seam roller which had a firm but slightly elastic plastic sleeve.  Then I covered it with plastic flowed by a slightly flexible pad ( old carpet tile ) and clamped it tight while the glue cooled.  For small loudspeakers I used a vacuum bag intended for packing away bulky clothes into small cupboards. The whole thing fitted inside the bag and once the air was hoovered out, air pressure kept everything in place.  For something the size of a small table, you might need straps, weights or tape to hold the bits in place.

One great thing about using traditional hot glue is that if you don?t get it quite right, a heat gun or domestic iron can be used to soften the glue and you can try again.

Alan


> On 26 May 2023, at 11:47, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Certainly don't know anyone.... but this is actually quite easy to do yourself, albeit that it takes time.
> 
> Essentially, all you do is find a single piece of the "jigsaw", create a method of holding it in place, and glue it back. The holding can be clamps, elastic bands, pieces of webbing, anything - you (or the restorer) will have to invent something to put even pressure on each jigsaw puzzle piece. 
> 
> The adhesive you use depends on the value of the furniture. If it is very old and valuable you need to use an original animal-based glue, though that will come apart again in hot, difficult environments. If it is  a lesser piece, you can use a PVA based version - easier and less messy.
> 
> I've repaired a long case clock where the entire case had come apart - it had to be held together with parcel tape - and veneers were dropping off everywhere. You would be hard pushed to see where it had been glued back together now. It just took a long time, working on a single joint or veneer at a go.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> 
> On 26/05/2023 11:36, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote:
>> A bit different from cameras and sound topics......!
>> 
>> Can anyone recommend or has experience of expert furniture restorers, preferably in Surrey.
>> 
>> I inherited a drum table which due to modern central heating, has bits falling off as the glue
>> dries out.
>> 
>> Watching the 'Repair Shop', I am amazed at the skill of the specialist restorers and
>> wonder if there is a commercial service - probably expensive!
>> 
>> best
>> Pat H
>> 
>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Mon May 29 18:16:31 2023
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 00:16:31 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Built to Fail? The Truth About Planned Obsolescence |...
Message-ID: <45975A5C-17FA-4E04-B191-5D07C354DAF6@howell61.f9.co.uk>

https://youtu.be/45I24cjVrs4

An interestingYoutube documentary about obsolescence,
involving capacitors in flat screen TVs, shot by France 2 with an informed translation.

Worth a look,
John H.



From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Tue May 30 08:14:09 2023
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2023 14:14:09 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Built to Fail? The Truth About Planned Obsolescence |...
In-Reply-To: <45975A5C-17FA-4E04-B191-5D07C354DAF6@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <45975A5C-17FA-4E04-B191-5D07C354DAF6@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <da9d81ac-fb28-e003-0abf-3d494f44d648@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Pretty high level of conspiracy theory stuff - a slight shortage of 
accurate truth.

Many of the very old will remember the problem with Wima capacitors > 
half a century ago - nothing to do with planned obsolescence, just a 
higher failure rate than anticipated. Electrolytic capacitors have 
always been "delicate" - there structure makes them prone to drying out 
over the years. You can get higher temperature versions (at greater 
cost) but they all have tendency to fail after a decade or so. Nobody 
has managed to design anything better.

As to repairability, the most unreliable components are... connectors. 
So design as much as possible on one board, with the minimum of 
connectors, and you get the greatest reliability. But you also get 
complaints of it being unrepairable because everything is on the one 
board. The track complexity, the multilayer board itself, the SMD 
components (that avoid the fragility of wire connections), etc - of 
course they can't be re-worked.

And I loved the stuff about throwing out old CRT TVs. CRTs aged 
appallingly, like all vacuum tube stuff. And there was no mention of the 
abysmal power consumption of the older gear.

Sure, they were making a point, but it wasn't a very balanced one.

Chris Woolf



On 30/05/2023 00:16, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
> https://youtu.be/45I24cjVrs4
>
> An interestingYoutube documentary about obsolescence,
> involving capacitors in flat screen TVs, shot by France 2 with an informed translation.
>
> Worth a look,
> John H.
>
>


From waresound at msn.com  Wed May 31 01:42:03 2023
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2023 06:42:03 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Built to Fail? The Truth About Planned Obsolescence |...
In-Reply-To: <da9d81ac-fb28-e003-0abf-3d494f44d648@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <45975A5C-17FA-4E04-B191-5D07C354DAF6@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<da9d81ac-fb28-e003-0abf-3d494f44d648@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB1604290471FF7EF6977E0BAEA7489@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Ah yes, there wasn?t much that couldn?t be improved by replacing the Wimas!
And that TV repairer?s stock saying: ?Your tube?s gone - you need a new tube?. (Whether you did or not)
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - sent from my iPad

> On 30 May 2023, at 14:15, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Pretty high level of conspiracy theory stuff - a slight shortage of accurate truth.
> 
> Many of the very old will remember the problem with Wima capacitors > half a century ago - nothing to do with planned obsolescence, just a higher failure rate than anticipated. Electrolytic capacitors have always been "delicate" - there structure makes them prone to drying out over the years. You can get higher temperature versions (at greater cost) but they all have tendency to fail after a decade or so. Nobody has managed to design anything better.
> 
> As to repairability, the most unreliable components are... connectors. So design as much as possible on one board, with the minimum of connectors, and you get the greatest reliability. But you also get complaints of it being unrepairable because everything is on the one board. The track complexity, the multilayer board itself, the SMD components (that avoid the fragility of wire connections), etc - of course they can't be re-worked.
> 
> And I loved the stuff about throwing out old CRT TVs. CRTs aged appallingly, like all vacuum tube stuff. And there was no mention of the abysmal power consumption of the older gear.
> 
> Sure, they were making a point, but it wasn't a very balanced one.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> 
>> On 30/05/2023 00:16, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
>> https://youtu.be/45I24cjVrs4
>> 
>> An interestingYoutube documentary about obsolescence,
>> involving capacitors in flat screen TVs, shot by France 2 with an informed translation.
>> 
>> Worth a look,
>> John H.
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk