From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Jun 2 05:28:52 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2023 11:28:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration In-Reply-To: <001801d98fc0$58070c50$081524f0$@gmail.com> References: <9ea37463-5707-4d6c-efbd-f11f73ace4e9@amps.net> <001801d98fc0$58070c50$081524f0$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks to all those who replied to my query about furniture restoration. I found a contact for Will Kirk, but he's not accepting any new projects at present. Best Pat H On 26/05/2023 11:53, ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com wrote: > > Pat, > > I believe Will Kirk, the wood expert on Repair Shop has a restoration > business based in Wandsworth > > *From:*Tech1 *On Behalf Of *Pat Heigham > via Tech1 > *Sent:* Friday, May 26, 2023 11:37 AM > *To:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Subject:* [Tech1] Furniture restoration > > A bit different from cameras and sound topics......! > > Can anyone recommend or has experience of expert furniture restorers, > preferably in Surrey. > > I inherited a drum table which due to modern central heating, has bits > falling off as the glue > dries out. > > Watching the 'Repair Shop', I am amazed at the skill of the specialist > restorers and > wonder if there is a commercial service - probably expensive! > > best > Pat H > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Mon Jun 5 04:50:25 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 09:50:25 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration Message-ID: ?Is this really not something you could do yourself, Pat? It?s never too late to learn new skills! Over the years I have restored two chamber pipe organs and an antique lute, plus built another portatif organ from a kit. (I?ll describe that another day, because that was a worthwhile and inspirational challenge). You can buy all the veneers you need in any wood grain you want, specialist adhesives, scalpels, wood dyes, etc. Enormous satisfaction to be had from doing things like this! The organs required a fair amount of bellows leatherwork replacement - leatherwork that has to be 100% flexible and airtight for it to work. And the satisfaction of hearing them sounding good again is indescribable. (in my case, I have an organist B-in-L to make that happen!) And in the end, even if it doesn?t turn out as you hoped, there?s always ?Well at least I tried?! And should you need it, the one thing that?s virtually impossible to buy these days is properly seasoned timber. The best source being up-cycled wood from old furniture etc. I don?t think I?ll ever forget the look on Judi?s face the day I hired a large van to collect an entire redundant church organ, the bulk of which lay in our back garden for many months! The biggest wooden pipes became planters for veggies and herbs in the garden. Redundant, but born again. Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad On 2 Jun 2023, at 11:29, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: ? Thanks to all those who replied to my query about furniture restoration. I found a contact for Will Kirk, but he's not accepting any new projects at present. Best Pat H On 26/05/2023 11:53, ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com wrote: Pat, I believe Will Kirk, the wood expert on Repair Shop has a restoration business based in Wandsworth From: Tech1 On Behalf Of Pat Heigham via Tech1 Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 11:37 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration A bit different from cameras and sound topics......! Can anyone recommend or has experience of expert furniture restorers, preferably in Surrey. I inherited a drum table which due to modern central heating, has bits falling off as the glue dries out. Watching the 'Repair Shop', I am amazed at the skill of the specialist restorers and wonder if there is a commercial service - probably expensive! best Pat H -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Mon Jun 5 04:59:02 2023 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 10:59:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I fully support you, Nick! Good professionals will do these jobs with greater speed, confidence and (probably) precision, but an amateur, with plenty of time, can often do a remarkably good job. If the item has enormous value, then it is best left to the highly skilled,? but for most other things there's really no reason not to have a try. Furniture restoration doesn't require a massive range of tools, complicated procedures or materials. For anyone with tolerable manual dexterity it is well within what's possible. Chris Woolf On 05/06/2023 10:50, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > ?Is this really not something you could do yourself, Pat? It?s never > too late to learn new skills! Over the years I have restored two > chamber pipe organs and an antique lute, plus built another portatif > organ from a kit. (I?ll describe that another day, because that was a > worthwhile and inspirational challenge). You can buy all the veneers > you need in any wood grain you want, specialist adhesives, scalpels, > wood dyes, etc. Enormous satisfaction to be had from doing things like > this! > The organs required a fair amount of bellows leatherwork replacement - > leatherwork that has to be 100% flexible and airtight for it to work. > And the satisfaction of hearing them sounding good again is > indescribable. (in my case, I have an organist B-in-L to make that > happen!) > And in the end, even if it doesn?t turn out as you hoped, there?s > always ?Well at least I tried?! > > And should you need it, the one thing that?s virtually impossible to > buy these days is properly seasoned timber. The best source being > up-cycled wood from old furniture etc. > I don?t think I?ll ever forget the look on Judi?s face the day I hired > a large van to collect an entire redundant church organ, the bulk of > which lay in our back garden for many months! > The biggest wooden pipes became planters for veggies and herbs in the > garden. Redundant, but born again. > Cheers, > Nick. > > Nick Ware - sent from my iPad > >> On 2 Jun 2023, at 11:29, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? >> >> Thanks to all those who replied to my query about furniture restoration. >> >> I found a contact for Will Kirk, but he's not accepting any new >> projects at present. >> >> Best >> >> Pat H >> >> On 26/05/2023 11:53, ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Pat, >>> >>> I believe Will Kirk, the wood expert on Repair Shop has a >>> restoration business based in Wandsworth >>> >>> *From:*Tech1 *On Behalf Of *Pat >>> Heigham via Tech1 >>> *Sent:* Friday, May 26, 2023 11:37 AM >>> *To:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> *Subject:* [Tech1] Furniture restoration >>> >>> A bit different from cameras and sound topics......! >>> >>> Can anyone recommend or has experience of expert furniture >>> restorers, preferably in Surrey. >>> >>> I inherited a drum table which due to modern central heating, has >>> bits falling off as the glue >>> dries out. >>> >>> Watching the 'Repair Shop', I am amazed at the skill of the >>> specialist restorers and >>> wonder if there is a commercial service - probably expensive! >>> >>> best >>> Pat H >>> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Mon Jun 5 05:17:21 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 11:17:21 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Mon Jun 5 10:29:22 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 16:29:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69d7b43f-08b1-0c24-3012-49e4887004a6@amps.net> Thanks to all who have the confidence in me to undertake restorations. I don't share that confidence - as the drum table is probably William IV and hopefully will fetch a bit at auction to go towards my beneficiaries' share of my estate, I would rather an experienced expert has a go instead of a 'bodge' job that I would do. I think there is a local chap near me. Besides which, I do not have a suitable workspace. My father was an excellent carpenter and mechanic - he taught me how to look after tools, and built a boat in his garage. He made my mother a beautiful miniature chest of drawers for her jewellery, and I keep that to this day. I knew about your love and fascination with organs, Nick - much impressed! Best regards Pat H On 05/06/2023 11:17, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > If the veneer is all there, but simply detached, it?s a fairly > straightforward job gluing it back. ?I did this for a long case clock > which belonged to a friend. ?She was very wary of me doing it because > the clock was valuable, but quotes for getting it professionally > repaired were incredibly expensive. > > Pearl glue, an old saucepan and gentle use of a hair drier to pre-warm > the substrate was pretty well all that was needed. ?The results looked > perfect to my eye and she was so delighted that she did the same thing > to rectify faults on other items. She was given a lot of confidence by > my assurance that Pearl glue can be reheated to release veneer if you > don?t get it exactly right first time and she did need to do that too. > > I found it useful to look up some PDF copies of old cabinet making > books online to see how they used to do it. You then get a better > understanding of what you are trying to achieve and can improvise > useful tools. > > If you are wanting repairs done professionally, considering getting > them done by the most famous and most sought after furniture restorer > in the UK might not be an affordable option. Local specialists would > be much cheaper, but not cheap. > > Alan > >> On 5 Jun 2023, at 10:59, Chris Woolf via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? >> >> I fully support you, Nick! >> >> Good professionals will do these jobs with greater speed, confidence >> and (probably) precision, but an amateur, with plenty of time, can >> often do a remarkably good job. >> >> If the item has enormous value, then it is best left to the highly >> skilled,? but for most other things there's really no reason not to >> have a try. Furniture restoration doesn't require a massive range of >> tools, complicated procedures or materials. For anyone with tolerable >> manual dexterity it is well within what's possible. >> >> Chris Woolf >> >> >> On 05/06/2023 10:50, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >>> ?Is this really not something you could do yourself, Pat? It?s never >>> too late to learn new skills! Over the years I have restored two >>> chamber pipe organs and an antique lute, plus built another portatif >>> organ from a kit. (I?ll describe that another day, because that was >>> a worthwhile and inspirational challenge). You can buy all the >>> veneers you need in any wood grain you want, specialist adhesives, >>> scalpels, wood dyes, etc. Enormous satisfaction to be had from doing >>> things like this! >>> The organs required a fair amount of bellows leatherwork replacement >>> - leatherwork that has to be 100% flexible and airtight for it to >>> work. And the satisfaction of hearing them sounding good again is >>> indescribable. (in my case, I have an organist B-in-L to make that >>> happen!) >>> And in the end, even if it doesn?t turn out as you hoped, there?s >>> always ?Well at least I tried?! >>> >>> And should you need it, the one thing that?s virtually impossible to >>> buy these days is properly seasoned timber. The best source being >>> up-cycled wood from old furniture etc. >>> I don?t think I?ll ever forget the look on Judi?s face the day I >>> hired a large van to collect an entire redundant church organ, the >>> bulk of which lay in our back garden for many months! >>> The biggest wooden pipes became planters for veggies and herbs in >>> the garden. Redundant, but born again. >>> Cheers, >>> Nick. >>> >>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 2 Jun 2023, at 11:29, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> Thanks to all those who replied to my query about furniture >>>> restoration. >>>> >>>> I found a contact for Will Kirk, but he's not accepting any new >>>> projects at present. >>>> >>>> Best >>>> >>>> Pat H >>>> >>>> On 26/05/2023 11:53, ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Pat, >>>>> >>>>> I believe Will Kirk, the wood expert on Repair Shop has a >>>>> restoration business based in Wandsworth >>>>> >>>>> *From:*Tech1 *On Behalf Of *Pat >>>>> Heigham via Tech1 >>>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 26, 2023 11:37 AM >>>>> *To:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> *Subject:* [Tech1] Furniture restoration >>>>> >>>>> A bit different from cameras and sound topics......! >>>>> >>>>> Can anyone recommend or has experience of expert furniture >>>>> restorers, preferably in Surrey. >>>>> >>>>> I inherited a drum table which due to modern central heating, has >>>>> bits falling off as the glue >>>>> dries out. >>>>> >>>>> Watching the 'Repair Shop', I am amazed at the skill of the >>>>> specialist restorers and >>>>> wonder if there is a commercial service - probably expensive! >>>>> >>>>> best >>>>> Pat H >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mini Chest + key (3).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 673205 bytes Desc: not available URL: From waresound at msn.com Mon Jun 5 16:18:37 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 21:18:37 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration In-Reply-To: <69d7b43f-08b1-0c24-3012-49e4887004a6@amps.net> References: <69d7b43f-08b1-0c24-3012-49e4887004a6@amps.net> Message-ID: Something for all to consider: If you have a significant Estate and/or things of value to leave to your beneficiaries, get proper advice and place as much as you can outside your Estate now. My wife and her two sisters were joint beneficiaries to the Estate of a childless uncle and aunt. Because they stubbornly refused to do the right thing, the Probate process took 24 months, and the death duty jointly paid by the sisters amounted to just under ?500,000. And that Death Duty had to be paid before Probate could be granted. Things were further complicated by the fact that they died only three days apart, meaning that two separate Probate applications had to be made, and two sets of legal fees. The immoral thing was that said uncle and aunt had paid Income Tax on every penny of what they had to leave in their Wills. And, their (unoccupied) house couldn?t be sold until after Probate, yet the local Council still required Council Tax to be paid for the whole of the 24 months! N. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad On 5 Jun 2023, at 16:30, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: ? Thanks to all who have the confidence in me to undertake restorations. I don't share that confidence - as the drum table is probably William IV and hopefully will fetch a bit at auction to go towards my beneficiaries' share of my estate, I would rather an experienced expert has a go instead of a 'bodge' job that I would do. I think there is a local chap near me. Besides which, I do not have a suitable workspace. My father was an excellent carpenter and mechanic - he taught me how to look after tools, and built a boat in his garage. He made my mother a beautiful miniature chest of drawers for her jewellery, and I keep that to this day. I knew about your love and fascination with organs, Nick - much impressed! Best regards Pat H On 05/06/2023 11:17, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: If the veneer is all there, but simply detached, it?s a fairly straightforward job gluing it back. I did this for a long case clock which belonged to a friend. She was very wary of me doing it because the clock was valuable, but quotes for getting it professionally repaired were incredibly expensive. Pearl glue, an old saucepan and gentle use of a hair drier to pre-warm the substrate was pretty well all that was needed. The results looked perfect to my eye and she was so delighted that she did the same thing to rectify faults on other items. She was given a lot of confidence by my assurance that Pearl glue can be reheated to release veneer if you don?t get it exactly right first time and she did need to do that too. I found it useful to look up some PDF copies of old cabinet making books online to see how they used to do it. You then get a better understanding of what you are trying to achieve and can improvise useful tools. If you are wanting repairs done professionally, considering getting them done by the most famous and most sought after furniture restorer in the UK might not be an affordable option. Local specialists would be much cheaper, but not cheap. Alan On 5 Jun 2023, at 10:59, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: ? I fully support you, Nick! Good professionals will do these jobs with greater speed, confidence and (probably) precision, but an amateur, with plenty of time, can often do a remarkably good job. If the item has enormous value, then it is best left to the highly skilled, but for most other things there's really no reason not to have a try. Furniture restoration doesn't require a massive range of tools, complicated procedures or materials. For anyone with tolerable manual dexterity it is well within what's possible. Chris Woolf On 05/06/2023 10:50, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: ?Is this really not something you could do yourself, Pat? It?s never too late to learn new skills! Over the years I have restored two chamber pipe organs and an antique lute, plus built another portatif organ from a kit. (I?ll describe that another day, because that was a worthwhile and inspirational challenge). You can buy all the veneers you need in any wood grain you want, specialist adhesives, scalpels, wood dyes, etc. Enormous satisfaction to be had from doing things like this! The organs required a fair amount of bellows leatherwork replacement - leatherwork that has to be 100% flexible and airtight for it to work. And the satisfaction of hearing them sounding good again is indescribable. (in my case, I have an organist B-in-L to make that happen!) And in the end, even if it doesn?t turn out as you hoped, there?s always ?Well at least I tried?! And should you need it, the one thing that?s virtually impossible to buy these days is properly seasoned timber. The best source being up-cycled wood from old furniture etc. I don?t think I?ll ever forget the look on Judi?s face the day I hired a large van to collect an entire redundant church organ, the bulk of which lay in our back garden for many months! The biggest wooden pipes became planters for veggies and herbs in the garden. Redundant, but born again. Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad On 2 Jun 2023, at 11:29, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: ? Thanks to all those who replied to my query about furniture restoration. I found a contact for Will Kirk, but he's not accepting any new projects at present. Best Pat H On 26/05/2023 11:53, ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com wrote: Pat, I believe Will Kirk, the wood expert on Repair Shop has a restoration business based in Wandsworth From: Tech1 On Behalf Of Pat Heigham via Tech1 Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 11:37 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration A bit different from cameras and sound topics......! Can anyone recommend or has experience of expert furniture restorers, preferably in Surrey. I inherited a drum table which due to modern central heating, has bits falling off as the glue dries out. Watching the 'Repair Shop', I am amazed at the skill of the specialist restorers and wonder if there is a commercial service - probably expensive! best Pat H -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk [Mini Chest + key (3).jpg]-- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mini Chest + key (3).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 398532 bytes Desc: Mini Chest + key (3).jpg URL: From waresound at msn.com Tue Jun 6 06:02:09 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 11:02:09 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Estates, Wills, Probate, etc. In-Reply-To: References: <69d7b43f-08b1-0c24-3012-49e4887004a6@amps.net> Message-ID: I?m re-posting the following because something caused the text of the whole conversation to shrink into micro-font (as it came back my iPad). N. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad On 5 Jun 2023, at 22:19, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: ? Something for all to consider: If you have a significant Estate and/or things of value to leave to your beneficiaries, get proper advice and place as much as you can outside your Estate now. My wife and her two sisters were joint beneficiaries to the Estate of a childless uncle and aunt. Because they stubbornly refused to do the right thing, the Probate process took 24 months, and the death duty jointly paid by the sisters amounted to just under ?500,000. And that Death Duty had to be paid before Probate could be granted. Things were further complicated by the fact that they died only three days apart, meaning that two separate Probate applications had to be made, and two sets of legal fees. The immoral thing was that said uncle and aunt had paid Income Tax on every penny of what they had to leave in their Wills. And, their (unoccupied) house couldn?t be sold until after Probate, yet the local Council still required Council Tax to be paid for the whole of the 24 months! N. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mini Chest + key (3).jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 398532 bytes Desc: Mini Chest + key (3).jpg URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Tue Jun 6 06:13:01 2023 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 12:13:01 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Estates, Wills, Probate, etc. In-Reply-To: References: <69d7b43f-08b1-0c24-3012-49e4887004a6@amps.net> Message-ID: You are quite right - the whole inheritance tax business is a mess. As has been frequently said, if you are wealthy, healthy and have a good tax adviser you don't pay it at all. If you own any property and have little understanding of finance, your heirs get caned. I'm not against the idea of a wealth tax but it does need to be a lot better organised than it is now. I think a great many elderly people see cash in a bank account, and maximum equity in their property as something desirable - it has been for most of their life. But during the last seven? years (who knows when they will start?) the desirability reverses completely. So hard to suddenly change your position at a late stage in life, and also (often) a need to put your trust in children, friends, legal systems etc to keep some sort of safety net in case you need expensive care. It all needs to be changed, but you (plurally) have to implement that change at elections. Chris Woolf On 06/06/2023 12:02, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > I?m re-posting the following because something caused the text of the > whole conversation to shrink into micro-font (as it came back my iPad). > N. > Nick Ware - sent from my iPad > >> On 5 Jun 2023, at 22:19, Nick Ware via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? Something for all to consider: >> If you have a significant Estate and/or things of value to leave to >> your beneficiaries, get proper advice and place as much as you can >> outside your Estate now. >> My wife and her two sisters were joint beneficiaries to the Estate of >> a childless uncle and aunt. Because they stubbornly refused to do the >> right thing, the Probate process took 24 months, and the death duty >> jointly paid by the sisters amounted to just under ?500,000. And that >> Death Duty had to be paid /*before*/?Probate could be granted. Things >> were further complicated by the fact that they died only three days >> apart, meaning that two separate Probate applications had to be made, >> and two sets of legal fees. >> The immoral thing was that said uncle and aunt had paid Income Tax on >> every penny of what they had to leave in their Wills. And, their >> (unoccupied) house couldn?t be sold until after Probate, yet the >> local Council still required Council Tax to be paid for the whole of >> the 24 months! >> N. >> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry-wilkinson at sky.com Tue Jun 6 06:51:00 2023 From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 12:51:00 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Estates, Wills, Probate, etc. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <64C17B59-5264-4B07-8004-36ABCEDD9E5C@sky.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gary_critcher at yahoo.com Tue Jun 6 09:35:53 2023 From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 14:35:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] Do we recognise anyone? References: <1050173335.722338.1686062153222.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1050173335.722338.1686062153222@mail.yahoo.com> ...I've just stumbled across this in a Facebook group,? do we recognise anyone or even where the? ? photo was taken. ? All the best,?Gary C -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot_20230606-150441_Samsung Internet.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 652705 bytes Desc: not available URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Tue Jun 6 10:33:07 2023 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 16:33:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Do we recognise anyone? In-Reply-To: <1050173335.722338.1686062153222@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1050173335.722338.1686062153222.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1050173335.722338.1686062153222@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1A184ACF-69B3-434F-99B0-8FBFBE9CCD48@icloud.com> Dont recognise the CCU, doesn?t look like EMI 2001 or Marconi Mk7. > On 6 Jun 2023, at 15:35, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote: > > ...I've just stumbled across this in a Facebook group, do we recognise anyone or even where the photo was taken. > > All the best, > Gary C > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ? Graeme Wall From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jun 6 10:39:14 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 16:39:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Do we recognise anyone? In-Reply-To: <1A184ACF-69B3-434F-99B0-8FBFBE9CCD48@icloud.com> References: <1A184ACF-69B3-434F-99B0-8FBFBE9CCD48@icloud.com> Message-ID: <0CD20C45-EC77-4B2A-A6B6-95AEBD3EA97A@me.com> Definitely not EMI 2001. Before becoming a sound guy I was training to be a vision engineer and lined up loads of 2001 cameras. Immediately obvious differences are the shape and style of the knobs, different layout of knobs and the door was side hinged rather than pulling out like that. Alan > On 6 Jun 2023, at 16:34, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Dont recognise the CCU, doesn?t look like EMI 2001 or Marconi Mk7. > >> On 6 Jun 2023, at 15:35, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ...I've just stumbled across this in a Facebook group, do we recognise anyone or even where the photo was taken. >> >> All the best, >> Gary C >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > ? > Graeme Wall > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From graeme.wall at icloud.com Tue Jun 6 10:42:15 2023 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 16:42:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Do we recognise anyone? In-Reply-To: <0CD20C45-EC77-4B2A-A6B6-95AEBD3EA97A@me.com> References: <1A184ACF-69B3-434F-99B0-8FBFBE9CCD48@icloud.com> <0CD20C45-EC77-4B2A-A6B6-95AEBD3EA97A@me.com> Message-ID: <7B3E6C1E-4570-4BA8-8666-B7FFDB602DCE@icloud.com> I wonder if it is a Phillips/Peto Scott, possibly Manchester? > On 6 Jun 2023, at 16:39, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > > Definitely not EMI 2001. Before becoming a sound guy I was training to be a vision engineer and lined up loads of 2001 cameras. Immediately obvious differences are the shape and style of the knobs, different layout of knobs and the door was side hinged rather than pulling out like that. > > Alan > > >> On 6 Jun 2023, at 16:34, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?Dont recognise the CCU, doesn?t look like EMI 2001 or Marconi Mk7. >> >>> On 6 Jun 2023, at 15:35, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ...I've just stumbled across this in a Facebook group, do we recognise anyone or even where the photo was taken. >>> >>> All the best, >>> Gary C >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> ? >> Graeme Wall >> >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ? Graeme Wall From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Tue Jun 6 10:47:02 2023 From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 16:47:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Estates, Wills, Probate, etc. In-Reply-To: References: <69d7b43f-08b1-0c24-3012-49e4887004a6@amps.net> Message-ID: <01b701d9988e$236d8ba0$6a48a2e0$@pgtmedia.co.uk> A few thoughts/ comments from someone who has done probate 4 times since 2020? 1. If there is a will and not likely to be a disagreement between executor?s & beneficiaries its easy to do it all online without professional (Expensive) help 2. If there are liquid assets , you might be able to get the financial institutions to pay HMRC Death Duty?s before probate, if not you need to finance it , possibly via a loan. 3. When writing a will, do not let the solicitor bully you in to making them executors. Unless it?s really complex almost anyone that can fill out a few web forms should be able to do it. 4. If you have several executors named , and dispute is unlikely, you can all agree , just one person will do it and the other(s) reserve their powers. That way everything can be done without sending documents around the country every time for signatures (useful if you do not live near each other ) If something was to happen to the ?one? before everything is complete one of the others could apply to complete probate. 5. Most councils, if a property is empty due to a death, most (Can not be sure its all) do not charge Council tax until Probate is granted plus (typically) 6 months. 6. Separate tip- if you are a couple with credit cards, make sure you have at least one in each name. There is no such thing as a joint credit card , it always one person?s with additional card holders. If a couple have a couple of shared cards, but they all have the same main card holder, if they pass away first, the cards will all be cancelled as soon as someone tells the bank , leaving the partner with nothing.(This is the last thing they need!) Bank accounts / debit cards are true ?joint cards? with no issue I hope some of this helps, if only to prompt some checks & reviews? Paul Thackray PGT Media Consulting Ltd. +44 7802 243979 Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746 IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/ From: Tech1 On Behalf Of Chris Woolf via Tech1 Sent: 06 June 2023 12:13 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Estates, Wills, Probate, etc. You are quite right - the whole inheritance tax business is a mess. As has been frequently said, if you are wealthy, healthy and have a good tax adviser you don't pay it at all. If you own any property and have little understanding of finance, your heirs get caned. I'm not against the idea of a wealth tax but it does need to be a lot better organised than it is now. I think a great many elderly people see cash in a bank account, and maximum equity in their property as something desirable - it has been for most of their life. But during the last seven years (who knows when they will start?) the desirability reverses completely. So hard to suddenly change your position at a late stage in life, and also (often) a need to put your trust in children, friends, legal systems etc to keep some sort of safety net in case you need expensive care. It all needs to be changed, but you (plurally) have to implement that change at elections. Chris Woolf On 06/06/2023 12:02, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: I?m re-posting the following because something caused the text of the whole conversation to shrink into micro-font (as it came back my iPad). N. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad On 5 Jun 2023, at 22:19, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: ? Something for all to consider: If you have a significant Estate and/or things of value to leave to your beneficiaries, get proper advice and place as much as you can outside your Estate now. My wife and her two sisters were joint beneficiaries to the Estate of a childless uncle and aunt. Because they stubbornly refused to do the right thing, the Probate process took 24 months, and the death duty jointly paid by the sisters amounted to just under ?500,000. And that Death Duty had to be paid before Probate could be granted. Things were further complicated by the fact that they died only three days apart, meaning that two separate Probate applications had to be made, and two sets of legal fees. The immoral thing was that said uncle and aunt had paid Income Tax on every penny of what they had to leave in their Wills. And, their (unoccupied) house couldn?t be sold until after Probate, yet the local Council still required Council Tax to be paid for the whole of the 24 months! N. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Tue Jun 6 10:51:19 2023 From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 16:51:19 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Estates, Wills, Probate, etc. In-Reply-To: References: <69d7b43f-08b1-0c24-3012-49e4887004a6@amps.net> Message-ID: <01c301d9988e$bc540060$34fc0120$@pgtmedia.co.uk> A few thoughts/ comments from someone who has done probate 4 times since 2020? 1. If there is a will and not likely to be a disagreement between executor?s & beneficiaries its easy to do it all online without professional (Expensive) help 2. If there are liquid assets , you might be able to get the financial institutions to pay HMRC Death Duty?s before probate, if not you need to finance it , possibly via a loan. 3. When writing a will, do not let the solicitor bully you in to making them executors. Unless it?s really complex almost anyone that can fill out a few web forms should be able to do it. 4. If you have several executors named , and dispute is unlikely, you can all agree , just one person will do it and the other(s) reserve their powers. That way everything can be done without sending documents around the country every time for signatures (useful if you do not live near each other ) If something was to happen to the ?one? before everything is complete one of the others could apply to complete probate. 5. Most councils, if a property is empty due to a death, most (Can not be sure its all) do not charge Council tax until Probate is granted plus (typically) 6 months. 6. Separate tip- if you are a couple with credit cards, make sure you have at least one in each name. There is no such thing as a joint credit card , it always one person?s with additional card holders. If a couple have a couple of shared cards, but they all have the same main card holder, if they pass away first, the cards will all be cancelled as soon as someone tells the bank , leaving the partner with nothing.(This is the last thing they need!) Bank accounts / debit cards are true ?joint cards? with no issue I hope some of this helps, if only to prompt some checks & reviews? Paul Thackray PGT Media Consulting Ltd. +44 7802 243979 Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746 IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/ From: Tech1 On Behalf Of Chris Woolf via Tech1 Sent: 06 June 2023 12:13 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Estates, Wills, Probate, etc. You are quite right - the whole inheritance tax business is a mess. As has been frequently said, if you are wealthy, healthy and have a good tax adviser you don't pay it at all. If you own any property and have little understanding of finance, your heirs get caned. I'm not against the idea of a wealth tax but it does need to be a lot better organised than it is now. I think a great many elderly people see cash in a bank account, and maximum equity in their property as something desirable - it has been for most of their life. But during the last seven years (who knows when they will start?) the desirability reverses completely. So hard to suddenly change your position at a late stage in life, and also (often) a need to put your trust in children, friends, legal systems etc to keep some sort of safety net in case you need expensive care. It all needs to be changed, but you (plurally) have to implement that change at elections. Chris Woolf On 06/06/2023 12:02, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: I?m re-posting the following because something caused the text of the whole conversation to shrink into micro-font (as it came back my iPad). N. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad On 5 Jun 2023, at 22:19, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: ? Something for all to consider: If you have a significant Estate and/or things of value to leave to your beneficiaries, get proper advice and place as much as you can outside your Estate now. My wife and her two sisters were joint beneficiaries to the Estate of a childless uncle and aunt. Because they stubbornly refused to do the right thing, the Probate process took 24 months, and the death duty jointly paid by the sisters amounted to just under ?500,000. And that Death Duty had to be paid before Probate could be granted. Things were further complicated by the fact that they died only three days apart, meaning that two separate Probate applications had to be made, and two sets of legal fees. The immoral thing was that said uncle and aunt had paid Income Tax on every penny of what they had to leave in their Wills. And, their (unoccupied) house couldn?t be sold until after Probate, yet the local Council still required Council Tax to be paid for the whole of the 24 months! N. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jun 6 10:52:59 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 16:52:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Do we recognise anyone? In-Reply-To: <7B3E6C1E-4570-4BA8-8666-B7FFDB602DCE@icloud.com> References: <7B3E6C1E-4570-4BA8-8666-B7FFDB602DCE@icloud.com> Message-ID: It didn?t look like how I remember the PC60 or PC80 CCUs we had in early colour OB scanners. From what I can remember, the controls were recessed in a horizontal tray rather than on a vertical panel. Alan > On 6 Jun 2023, at 16:42, Graeme Wall wrote: > > ?I wonder if it is a Phillips/Peto Scott, possibly Manchester? > >> On 6 Jun 2023, at 16:39, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Definitely not EMI 2001. Before becoming a sound guy I was training to be a vision engineer and lined up loads of 2001 cameras. Immediately obvious differences are the shape and style of the knobs, different layout of knobs and the door was side hinged rather than pulling out like that. >> >> Alan >> >> >>>> On 6 Jun 2023, at 16:34, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?Dont recognise the CCU, doesn?t look like EMI 2001 or Marconi Mk7. >>> >>>> On 6 Jun 2023, at 15:35, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> ...I've just stumbled across this in a Facebook group, do we recognise anyone or even where the photo was taken. >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> Gary C >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >>> ? >>> Graeme Wall >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > ? > Graeme Wall > > From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jun 6 11:21:18 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 17:21:18 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Do we recognise anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <77E7427E-A69B-46B0-9C32-0CEBFC9111BB@me.com> 1967 would have been about the time that the BBC were trialling rival colour cameras. As far as I?m aware, they only assessed cameras from EMI, Marconi and Phillips. Unless anybody knows of other cameras being used at that time, one would reasonably assume that it had to be from one of those manufacturers, which should narrow the field down considerably. Unfortunately it looks as though it might be none of those, or at least none of the better known cameras from those manufacturers. Other possibilities might be that it might not actually be a studio camera CCU at all, but maybe part of something like a telecine machine. Alan > On 6 Jun 2023, at 16:53, Alan Taylor wrote: > > ?It didn?t look like how I remember the PC60 or PC80 CCUs we had in early colour OB scanners. From what I can remember, the controls were recessed in a horizontal tray rather than on a vertical panel. > > Alan > > >> On 6 Jun 2023, at 16:42, Graeme Wall wrote: >> >> ?I wonder if it is a Phillips/Peto Scott, possibly Manchester? >> >>>> On 6 Jun 2023, at 16:39, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> Definitely not EMI 2001. Before becoming a sound guy I was training to be a vision engineer and lined up loads of 2001 cameras. Immediately obvious differences are the shape and style of the knobs, different layout of knobs and the door was side hinged rather than pulling out like that. >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> >>>>> On 6 Jun 2023, at 16:34, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Dont recognise the CCU, doesn?t look like EMI 2001 or Marconi Mk7. >>>> >>>>> On 6 Jun 2023, at 15:35, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ...I've just stumbled across this in a Facebook group, do we recognise anyone or even where the photo was taken. >>>>> >>>>> All the best, >>>>> Gary C >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> >>>> ? >>>> Graeme Wall >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> ? >> Graeme Wall >> >> From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Tue Jun 6 11:51:16 2023 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 17:51:16 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Do we recognise anyone? In-Reply-To: <1A184ACF-69B3-434F-99B0-8FBFBE9CCD48@icloud.com> References: <1050173335.722338.1686062153222.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1050173335.722338.1686062153222@mail.yahoo.com> <1A184ACF-69B3-434F-99B0-8FBFBE9CCD48@icloud.com> Message-ID: No picture visible - can you send it again to the list? Chris Woolf On 06/06/2023 16:33, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: > Dont recognise the CCU, doesn?t look like EMI 2001 or Marconi Mk7. > >> On 6 Jun 2023, at 15:35, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ...I've just stumbled across this in a Facebook group, do we recognise anyone or even where the photo was taken. >> >> All the best, >> Gary C >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > ? > Graeme Wall > > > From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jun 6 12:34:31 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 18:34:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Do we recognise anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1450124C-7A4B-4DA2-ACF5-DE7F4384864B@me.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 254054 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alawrance1 at me.com Tue Jun 6 13:16:41 2023 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 19:16:41 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Do we recognise anyone? In-Reply-To: <1450124C-7A4B-4DA2-ACF5-DE7F4384864B@me.com> References: <1450124C-7A4B-4DA2-ACF5-DE7F4384864B@me.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Tue Jun 6 13:25:46 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 18:25:46 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Do we recognise anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <1450124C-7A4B-4DA2-ACF5-DE7F4384864B@me.com> Message-ID: Oops, sent this reply to Alan by mistake, not the group. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad On 6 Jun 2023, at 19:20, Nick Ware wrote: ? It is now the right way round. Googling around, I found that same monitor/waveform monitor alongside a Marconi MkIII that has ?4? on it. The headphones and test meter look more modern than Marconi MkIII era. And, curiously, the knobs on the pulled out item appear to be red, blue and green, so maybe not so old either. Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad On 6 Jun 2023, at 18:35, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: ? Some comments on the Pinterest site insist that the picture as published is reversed. I?ve flipped the picture over in case it makes a slight difference. This way round looks more natural to me. The guy in the jacket is writing with his right hand and the guy in the foreground is holding what I assume to be a test probe in his left hand and operating what I suspect is a test meter with his right hand. There were three comments on the site. Two suggested it was from a Marconi ?coffin? camera, but the CCUs and OCPs I?ve seen pictures of don?t look like that one. The curved edges of the control panels don?t match up with any CCUs of that era that I can recall. One suggestion was that it was taken at AP. Alan P Paul These are the Marconi 'Coffin Camera' colour TV tests at Alexandra Palace in around 1956. MkIII series technology applied to a 3 tube 3" Image Orthicon camera. Definitely'reversed'. R r This looks like Marconi MKIII equipment, circa mid to late 1950?s. The image is left/right reversed. The picture monitor unit in the middle is mirror imaged. P Phil I worked at the Beeb in 1970. These CCUs are none that I recognise. The headphones too are wrong for the era On 6 Jun 2023, at 17:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: ?No picture visible - can you send it again to the list? Chris Woolf On 06/06/2023 16:33, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: Dont recognise the CCU, doesn?t look like EMI 2001 or Marconi Mk7. On 6 Jun 2023, at 15:35, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote: ...I've just stumbled across this in a Facebook group, do we recognise anyone or even where the photo was taken. All the best, Gary C -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ? Graeme Wall -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 254054 bytes Desc: image0.jpeg URL: From hughsnape at talktalk.net Tue Jun 6 13:38:29 2023 From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 19:38:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Do we recognise anyone? In-Reply-To: References: <1450124C-7A4B-4DA2-ACF5-DE7F4384864B@me.com> Message-ID: <72A503B7-A8A9-4836-9A51-6BCFEBD45FBC@talktalk.net> Might these be Marconi logos? Hugh > On 6 Jun 2023, at 19:16, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: > > I'm no expert, but if they are Marconi IO colour cameras, would it not be G in the Grove? > > Alasdair Lawrance > > Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > > > >> On 6 Jun 2023, at 18:35, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ? >> Some comments on the Pinterest site insist that the picture as published is reversed. I?ve flipped the picture over in case it makes a slight difference. >> >> >> >> >> This way round looks more natural to me. The guy in the jacket is writing with his right hand and the guy in the foreground is holding what I assume to be a test probe in his left hand and operating what I suspect is a test meter with his right hand. >> >> There were three comments on the site. Two suggested it was from a Marconi ?coffin? camera, but the CCUs and OCPs I?ve seen pictures of don?t look like that one. The curved edges of the control panels don?t match up with any CCUs of that era that I can recall. One suggestion was that it was taken at AP. >> >> Alan >> >> P >> >> Paul These are the Marconi 'Coffin Camera' colour TV tests at Alexandra Palace in around 1956. MkIII series technology applied to a 3 tube 3" Image Orthicon camera. Definitely'reversed'. >> R >> >> r This looks like Marconi MKIII equipment, circa mid to late 1950?s. The image is left/right reversed. The picture monitor unit in the middle is mirror imaged. >> P >> >> Phil I worked at the Beeb in 1970. These CCUs are none that I recognise. The headphones too are wrong for the era >> >> >> >>> On 6 Jun 2023, at 17:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?No picture visible - can you send it again to the list? >>> >>> Chris Woolf >>> >>> >>> On 06/06/2023 16:33, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: >>>> Dont recognise the CCU, doesn?t look like EMI 2001 or Marconi Mk7. >>>> >>>>> On 6 Jun 2023, at 15:35, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ...I've just stumbled across this in a Facebook group, do we recognise anyone or even where the photo was taken. >>>>> >>>>> All the best, >>>>> Gary C >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> ? >>>> Graeme Wall >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Marconi?.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 260478 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davelebreton at btinternet.com Tue Jun 6 14:14:27 2023 From: davelebreton at btinternet.com (davelebreton at btinternet.com) Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2023 20:14:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Do we recognise anyone? In-Reply-To: <1050173335.722338.1686062153222@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alawrance1 at me.com Tue Jun 6 15:38:37 2023 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 21:38:37 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Do we recognise anyone? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry, I did, of course mean 'H' in Lime Grove. Alasdair Lawrance Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > On 6 Jun 2023, at 20:15, davelebreton--- via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > It is the ccu for the Marconi 3x3inch image orthicon camera. See the tvcameramuseum website under Marconi. > > Dave LeB > > On 6 Jun 2023 15:35, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote: > ...I've just stumbled across this in a Facebook group, do we recognise anyone or even where the photo was taken. > > All the best, > Gary C > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From apts at apts.org.uk Tue Jun 6 17:51:47 2023 From: apts at apts.org.uk (Alexandra Palace Television Society) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2023 23:51:47 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Do we recognise anyone? In-Reply-To: <1450124C-7A4B-4DA2-ACF5-DE7F4384864B@me.com> References: <1450124C-7A4B-4DA2-ACF5-DE7F4384864B@me.com> Message-ID: <2C45BC23-F09E-4561-BFAA-AD6A63529A8E@apts.org.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Jun 7 04:31:37 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2023 10:31:37 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Emergency broadcast alert In-Reply-To: <163FB6FD-0C3A-4183-8F8D-437EC8E183D6@icloud.com> References: <766A76B8-ADB3-4439-BAF8-5C2649E163FA@zero51.force9.co.uk> <163FB6FD-0C3A-4183-8F8D-437EC8E183D6@icloud.com> Message-ID: Loved the Ark/unicorn cartoon. Reminded me of a gag: After Noah had disembarked all the creatures from the ark, he spied two snakes coiled up in a corner. "Go forth and multiply" he instructed. "Can't" said the snakes" "Why" "'cos we're adders!" (Groan) Pat H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Wed Jun 7 06:31:24 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2023 11:31:24 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Emergency broadcast alert In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Pat, that joke was in ?The Boys? One Thousand Best Jokes?, a book that my boys had when they were very little. They?re in their mid 40?s now - but the jokes are still worth a chuckle, or as you say, a groan. Pity people don?t tell jokes nowadays like we used to. Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad On 7 Jun 2023, at 10:32, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: ? Loved the Ark/unicorn cartoon. Reminded me of a gag: After Noah had disembarked all the creatures from the ark, he spied two snakes coiled up in a corner. "Go forth and multiply" he instructed. "Can't" said the snakes" "Why" "'cos we're adders!" (Groan) Pat H -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doug at puddifoot.me Wed Jun 7 13:44:43 2023 From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2023 19:44:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Emergency broadcast alert In-Reply-To: References: <766A76B8-ADB3-4439-BAF8-5C2649E163FA@zero51.force9.co.uk><163FB6FD-0C3A-4183-8F8D-437EC8E183D6@icloud.com> Message-ID: God instructed Noah to build an Arc. He gave exact instructions as to the size and how many floors. When it was built Noah asked what he should do next, and God told him to make large tanks on all the floors, and fill them with water. That completed, Noah again asked for instructions, and God told him his final task was to find as many carp as he could and fill the tanks. When that was finished, Noah spoke to God. ?I have done all you asked, but I am puzzled as to why you wanted it built?. ?Well? said God, ?I have always wanted a Multi Story Carp Ark? Doug Puddifoot From: Pat Heigham via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 10:31 AM To: Peter Neill ; Peter Fox Cc: Tech ops Subject: Re: [Tech1] Emergency broadcast alert Loved the Ark/unicorn cartoon. Reminded me of a gag: After Noah had disembarked all the creatures from the ark, he spied two snakes coiled up in a corner. "Go forth and multiply" he instructed. "Can't" said the snakes" "Why" "'cos we're adders!" (Groan) Pat H -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Jun 9 08:16:03 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2023 14:16:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Not a scam but extortion Message-ID: Hello All, I like chocolate, particularly Cadbury's Caramel. Successfully ordered from Amazon at 1.21 per bar and for 6x at one time. Lately however, limited to just two bars (2.56) and a delivery charge of ?19.99 ! Quelle Rip-Off! I know of a system to report scams, but is there one for obvious rip-offs? Pat H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hughsnape at talktalk.net Fri Jun 9 08:24:46 2023 From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2023 14:24:46 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Not a scam but extortion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On 9 Jun 2023, at 14:16, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > Hello All, > > I like chocolate, particularly Cadbury's Caramel. > Successfully ordered from Amazon at 1.21 per bar and for 6x at one time. > > Lately however, limited to just two bars (2.56) and a delivery charge of > ?19.99 ! > > Quelle Rip-Off! > I know of a system to report scams, but is there one for obvious rip-offs? > > Pat H > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.png Type: image/png Size: 192437 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Fri Jun 9 09:06:26 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2023 15:06:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Not a scam but extortion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2951142C-329A-4BBC-A057-36C9E84F7E68@me.com> I was in Tesco when that email came through on my phone. As I had to go down that aisle anyway, I noticed that Tesco charge ?1.35 for the same 120g bar which isn?t much more expensive. Obviously you do need to go to the shop to collect it unless you?re having shopping delivered, but in this heat I don?t think it would do much good having chocolate bars bouncing around in a hot Amazon van all day. I?m puzzled about Amazon?s limit of two bars per customer. Chocolate isn?t in constrained supply as far as I?m aware and it?s not potentially dangerous like paracetamol where by law, medicines of that type are limited to two packs per customer. Alan > On 9 Jun 2023, at 14:16, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > Hello All, > > I like chocolate, particularly Cadbury's Caramel. > Successfully ordered from Amazon at 1.21 per bar and for 6x at one time. > > Lately however, limited to just two bars (2.56) and a delivery charge of > ?19.99 ! > > Quelle Rip-Off! > I know of a system to report scams, but is there one for obvious rip-offs? > > Pat H > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philiptyler at me.com Fri Jun 9 11:50:50 2023 From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2023 17:50:50 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Not a scam but extortion In-Reply-To: <2951142C-329A-4BBC-A057-36C9E84F7E68@me.com> References: <2951142C-329A-4BBC-A057-36C9E84F7E68@me.com> Message-ID: <526F253E-CBBC-48CA-9C42-4BA48148932D@me.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: govuk-opengraph-image-dade2dad5775023b0568381c4c074b86318194edb36d3d68df721eea7deeac4b.png Type: image/png Size: 58172 bytes Desc: not available URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Fri Jun 9 12:26:31 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2023 18:26:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Not a scam but extortion In-Reply-To: <526F253E-CBBC-48CA-9C42-4BA48148932D@me.com> References: <2951142C-329A-4BBC-A057-36C9E84F7E68@me.com> <526F253E-CBBC-48CA-9C42-4BA48148932D@me.com> Message-ID: <544967dc-bc0b-b6c5-305f-b963cf215b88@gmail.com> On Ebay, it's common to increase the price to a silly amount when out or low on stock. Something to do with easier/cheaper to stop sales that way than to withdraw the ad. Could be something similar on Amazon? On 09/06/2023 17:50, Philip Tyler via Tech1 wrote: > Perhaps something to do with this? > > govuk-opengraph-image-dade2dad5775023b0568381c4c074b86318194edb36d3d68df721eea7deeac4b.png > Restricting promotions of products high in fat, sugar and salt by > location and by price: government response to public consultation > > www.gov.uk > > > > > As regards outrageous delivery charges. I contacted IG doors for > replacement draught strips that fit to the bottom of the door. > > Replacement Rubber Strip ?6 > Delivery ?40 > > *#?$! :)) > > Philip and Bee > > https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/ > > >> On 9 Jun 2023, at 17:34, Alan Taylor via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? >> I was in Tesco when that email came through on my phone. ?As I had to >> go down that aisle anyway, I noticed that Tesco charge ?1.35 for the >> same 120g bar which isn?t much more expensive. >> >> Obviously you do need to go to the shop to collect it unless you?re >> having shopping delivered, but in this heat I don?t think it would do >> much good having chocolate bars bouncing around in a hot Amazon van >> all day. >> >> I?m puzzled about Amazon?s limit of two bars per customer. Chocolate >> isn?t in constrained supply as far as I?m aware and it?s not >> potentially dangerous like paracetamol where by law, medicines of that >> type are limited to two packs per customer. >> >> Alan >> >> >>> On 9 Jun 2023, at 14:16, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >>> wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Hello All, >>> >>> I like chocolate, particularly Cadbury's Caramel. >>> Successfully ordered from Amazon at 1.21 per bar and for 6x at one time. >>> >>> Lately however, limited to just two bars (2.56) and a delivery charge of >>> ?19.99 ! >>> >>> Quelle Rip-Off! >>> I know of a system to report scams, but is there one for obvious >>> rip-offs? >>> >>> Pat H >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- Dave Plowman London, SW From waresound at msn.com Fri Jun 9 13:32:35 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2023 18:32:35 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Not a scam but extortion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You have a Co-op round the corner, Pat. Theirs is ?1.65, so buy one less bar and reap the benefit of the excercise you?ll get walking there. (Old fashioned idea that also helps your local shops to survive). Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad On 9 Jun 2023, at 14:16, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: ? Hello All, I like chocolate, particularly Cadbury's Caramel. Successfully ordered from Amazon at 1.21 per bar and for 6x at one time. Lately however, limited to just two bars (2.56) and a delivery charge of ?19.99 ! Quelle Rip-Off! I know of a system to report scams, but is there one for obvious rip-offs? Pat H -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Sun Jun 11 06:18:12 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 12:18:12 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration In-Reply-To: References: <69d7b43f-08b1-0c24-3012-49e4887004a6@amps.net> Message-ID: In my case, if anything realised some decent return at auction, this would? be a cash boost to my accounts, and therefore subject to Inheritance Tax. As my beneficiaries should each receive a proportion of my remanent estate, it's not feasible to make over bits of antique furniture. And isn't there a seven year rule? Pat H On 05/06/2023 22:18, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > Something for all to consider: > If you have a significant Estate and/or things of value to leave to > your beneficiaries, get proper advice and place as much as you can > outside your Estate now. > My wife and her two sisters were joint beneficiaries to the Estate of > a childless uncle and aunt. Because they stubbornly refused to do the > right thing, the Probate process took 24 months, and the death duty > jointly paid by the sisters amounted to just under ?500,000. And that > Death Duty had to be paid /*before*/?Probate could be granted. Things > were further complicated by the fact that they died only three days > apart, meaning that two separate Probate applications had to be made, > and two sets of legal fees. > The immoral thing was that said uncle and aunt had paid Income Tax on > every penny of what they had to leave in their Wills. And, their > (unoccupied) house couldn?t be sold until after Probate, yet the local > Council still required Council Tax to be paid for the whole of the 24 > months! > N. > Nick Ware - sent from my iPad > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Sun Jun 11 08:32:10 2023 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 14:32:10 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration In-Reply-To: References: <69d7b43f-08b1-0c24-3012-49e4887004a6@amps.net> Message-ID: <8b22346d-3c6f-3e87-5a59-c3fbe5660ab7@chriswoolf.co.uk> Yes, there is a seven year rule, but valuation for probate tends to be pretty lenient. If the item is something that /might/ be of value, if placed at auction, then the habit is usually to dismiss it as general chattels. My late mother-in-law had an old clay beaker that none of the family had any interest in. It was dumped in a tray with the old petrol mugs to go to the dump. My wife was rather more sceptical and took it for identification at the county museum. 6000 years old, and probably saleable for as many thousand. She donated it quietly to Liverpool Museum, who had lost most of their similar stuff in wartime bombing. The nominal value would have made no difference to inheritance tax. There's nothing to stop you giving nice things away at any time. While they /should/ be declared if donated within 7 years of death, it is rare for anyone to argue unless it is in the realms of thousands - the paperwork isn't worth the effort. If you want to hand the table on to a friend or next door neighbour there's nothing to stop you. Chris Woolf On 11/06/2023 12:18, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > In my case, if anything realised some decent return at auction, this > would? be a cash boost to my accounts, and therefore subject to > Inheritance Tax. > > As my beneficiaries should each receive a proportion of my remanent > estate, it's not feasible to make over bits of antique furniture. > And isn't there a seven year rule? > > Pat H > > > On 05/06/2023 22:18, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > >> Something for all to consider: >> If you have a significant Estate and/or things of value to leave to >> your beneficiaries, get proper advice and place as much as you can >> outside your Estate now. >> My wife and her two sisters were joint beneficiaries to the Estate of >> a childless uncle and aunt. Because they stubbornly refused to do the >> right thing, the Probate process took 24 months, and the death duty >> jointly paid by the sisters amounted to just under ?500,000. And that >> Death Duty had to be paid /*before*/?Probate could be granted. Things >> were further complicated by the fact that they died only three days >> apart, meaning that two separate Probate applications had to be made, >> and two sets of legal fees. >> The immoral thing was that said uncle and aunt had paid Income Tax on >> every penny of what they had to leave in their Wills. And, their >> (unoccupied) house couldn?t be sold until after Probate, yet the >> local Council still required Council Tax to be paid for the whole of >> the 24 months! >> N. >> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Sun Jun 11 11:07:31 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 16:07:31 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] TalkTalk - the farce continues Message-ID: I?m delighted to report that my June bill from TalkTalk has just arrived. Viewers may recall that our TT account was closed on October 21st, the date of our last Direct debit payment to them. It?s probably safe to say that if you are a TalkTalk customer you could stop paying them and they would never notice! Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Mon Jun 12 04:03:03 2023 From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:03:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration In-Reply-To: <8b22346d-3c6f-3e87-5a59-c3fbe5660ab7@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Mon Jun 12 04:04:15 2023 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2023 10:04:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Furniture restoration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8470EAAA-A620-45EA-984D-BFE68C963AAD@icloud.com> Works for me :-) > On 12 Jun 2023, at 10:03, paul--- via Tech1 wrote: > > The 7 year rule on gifts is tapered , so anything over 3 reduces the tax, it's down to 0 by 7 years. > > Maybe it's an incentive to try and live at least 7 years more, just to spite the tax man? > > Paul Thackray > > PGT Media Consulting Ltd. > +44 7802 243979 > Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk > > Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk > Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746 > IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/ > From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Sent: 11 June 2023 14:32 > To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Reply to: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Furniture restoration > Yes, there is a seven year rule, but valuation for probate tends to be pretty lenient. > If the item is something that might be of value, if placed at auction, then the habit is usually to dismiss it as general chattels. My late mother-in-law had an old clay beaker that none of the family had any interest in. It was dumped in a tray with the old petrol mugs to go to the dump. My wife was rather more sceptical and took it for identification at the county museum. 6000 years old, and probably saleable for as many thousand. She donated it quietly to Liverpool Museum, who had lost most of their similar stuff in wartime bombing. The nominal value would have made no difference to inheritance tax. > There's nothing to stop you giving nice things away at any time. While they should be declared if donated within 7 years of death, it is rare for anyone to argue unless it is in the realms of thousands - the paperwork isn't worth the effort. If you want to hand the table on to a friend or next door neighbour there's nothing to stop you. > Chris Woolf > > On 11/06/2023 12:18, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >> In my case, if anything realised some decent return at auction, this would be a cash boost to my accounts, and therefore subject to Inheritance Tax. >> As my beneficiaries should each receive a proportion of my remanent estate, it's not feasible to make over bits of antique furniture. >> And isn't there a seven year rule? >> Pat H >> >> On 05/06/2023 22:18, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >>> Something for all to consider: >>> If you have a significant Estate and/or things of value to leave to your beneficiaries, get proper advice and place as much as you can outside your Estate now. >>> My wife and her two sisters were joint beneficiaries to the Estate of a childless uncle and aunt. Because they stubbornly refused to do the right thing, the Probate process took 24 months, and the death duty jointly paid by the sisters amounted to just under ?500,000. And that Death Duty had to be paid before Probate could be granted. Things were further complicated by the fact that they died only three days apart, meaning that two separate Probate applications had to be made, and two sets of legal fees. >>> The immoral thing was that said uncle and aunt had paid Income Tax on every penny of what they had to leave in their Wills. And, their (unoccupied) house couldn?t be sold until after Probate, yet the local Council still required Council Tax to be paid for the whole of the 24 months! >>> N. >>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad >>> >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ? Graeme Wall From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Jun 13 06:10:34 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 12:10:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric Message-ID: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> Hi all, Something to consider..... If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move to restore Imperial Measures? We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to become metric. But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage works OK, easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not Vorderman or Riley, when it comes to Maths! (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the nearest 5mm, so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either '5' or '0') *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet fallen over, in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! Best Pat H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Tue Jun 13 06:13:10 2023 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 12:13:10 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> Message-ID: Converting to the metric system had nothing to do with the EU, we started the process over 100 years ago. > On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:10, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > Hi all, > Something to consider..... > If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move to restore Imperial Measures? > We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. > We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. > Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. > Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. > Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to become metric. > But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage works OK, > easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not Vorderman or Riley, > when it comes to Maths! > (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the nearest 5mm, > so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either '5' or '0') > *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet fallen over, > in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! > Best > Pat H > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ? Graeme Wall From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Tue Jun 13 06:27:10 2023 From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 12:27:10 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> Message-ID: <005601d99de9$fed1e690$fc75b3b0$@pgtmedia.co.uk> Full change to Decimalised currency 15 Feb 1971 (but first coins 5p & 10 p were introduced in 1968) We joined the EEC (Not EU) in Jan 1973. It became the EU in 1993 So no connection?. Paul Thackray PGT Media Consulting Ltd. +44 7802 243979 Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746 IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/ From: Tech1 On Behalf Of Pat Heigham via Tech1 Sent: 13 June 2023 12:11 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric Hi all, Something to consider..... If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move to restore Imperial Measures? We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to become metric. But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage works OK, easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not Vorderman or Riley, when it comes to Maths! (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the nearest 5mm, so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either '5' or '0') *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet fallen over, in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! Best Pat H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry-wilkinson at sky.com Tue Jun 13 06:31:44 2023 From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 12:31:44 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> Message-ID: <64716D79-6CD3-4738-BEC4-151B4D67C634@sky.com> There?s another measurement now . My electric car is either miles or kilometres per kWhour . In the sunny weather mine is doing just over 4 miles per kWhour ,on short trips, but all the electricity is coming from my solar panels at the moment so it?s sort of free. Sent from my iPad > On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:11, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > Hi all, > > Something to consider..... > > If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move to restore Imperial Measures? > > We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. > > We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. > Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. > Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. > Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to become metric. > > But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage works OK, > easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not Vorderman or Riley, > when it comes to Maths! > > (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the nearest 5mm, > so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either '5' or '0') > > *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet fallen over, > in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! > > Best > > Pat H > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Jun 13 07:15:17 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 13:15:17 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <64716D79-6CD3-4738-BEC4-151B4D67C634@sky.com> References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> <64716D79-6CD3-4738-BEC4-151B4D67C634@sky.com> Message-ID: Did you see the Panorama last night, on whether it's good time to buy EV? Most of those interviewed against cited the initial cost (?40,000) and had concerns about range. Also, not enough charging points and some didn't work with attempted payment with credit card. Whoever thought up this scheme, likened to jumping off the high dive board, and discovering that there is no water in the pool. Pat H On 13/06/2023 12:31, B Wilkinson wrote: > There?s another measurement now . > My electric car is either miles or kilometres per kWhour . > In the sunny weather mine is doing just over 4 miles per kWhour ,on > short trips, but all the electricity is coming from my solar panels at > the moment so it?s sort of free. > > Sent from my iPad > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Tue Jun 13 07:45:46 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 13:45:46 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> Message-ID: <260cefb0-c228-f010-2d85-d3cb0d9a38a7@gmail.com> Was wondering just how old you'd need to be to have still been taught imperial at school? On 13/06/2023 12:10, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > Hi all, > > Something to consider..... > > If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move > to restore Imperial Measures? > > We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. > > We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. > Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. > Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. > Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to > become metric. > > But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage > works OK, > easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not > Vorderman or Riley, > when it comes to Maths! > > (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the > nearest 5mm, > so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either '5' > or '0') > > *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet > fallen over, > in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! > > Best > > Pat H > > -- Dave Plowman London, SW From barry-wilkinson at sky.com Tue Jun 13 07:50:54 2023 From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 13:50:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4669AB35-6E25-4076-A230-DFC05C37F3B5@sky.com> Unless , like me , you have solar panels and a house battery. OK the initial cost is higher for the car but all my charging is done at home so far so the motoring is free. I got paid ?24 last month from Octopus, so free house electricity as well. We have no gas. The Zappi wall box senses when there is excess electricity once the house battery is charged up and then connects to the charger in the car. For information the car wall box has no charger in it, that is in the car itself . The wall box is basically a control system with relays to connect to the car. Sent from my iPad > On 13 Jun 2023, at 13:16, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > Did you see the Panorama last night, on whether it's good time to buy EV? > > Most of those interviewed against cited the initial cost (?40,000) and had concerns about range. > Also, not enough charging points and some didn't work with attempted payment with > credit card. > Whoever thought up this scheme, likened to jumping off the high dive board, > and discovering that there is no water in the pool. > > Pat H > >> On 13/06/2023 12:31, B Wilkinson wrote: >> There?s another measurement now . >> My electric car is either miles or kilometres per kWhour . >> In the sunny weather mine is doing just over 4 miles per kWhour ,on short trips, but all the electricity is coming from my solar panels at the moment so it?s sort of free. >> >> Sent from my iPad >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jun 13 09:01:49 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 15:01:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <260cefb0-c228-f010-2d85-d3cb0d9a38a7@gmail.com> References: <260cefb0-c228-f010-2d85-d3cb0d9a38a7@gmail.com> Message-ID: I left school in 1967 and was taught both measurement systems. Science was always in metric units, maths could be in either and metalwork was imperial, but the metalwork teacher was close to retirement anyway and very set in his ways. It was frustrating because at that time, steel and brass was sold in imperial dimensions, while aluminium was in metric. He would always refer to 12mm aluminium bar as ??, but in reality it was a touch smaller than that. Once I left school and started buying tools, I always bought metric tools unless I needed drills, taps & dies or spanners for old stuff, and my efforts at baking have always been metric too. I find it bizarre that the reason given for going back to imperial units is because the changeover to metric has been inconsistent. If anybody is concerned about inconsistencies, then the logical course of action would be to fully convert to metric units and be done with it. The number of people who were taught imperial units is now a small and ever diminishing minority of the population. Alan > On 13 Jun 2023, at 13:46, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote > ?Was wondering just how old you'd need to be to have still been taught imperial at school? > >> On 13/06/2023 12:10, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >> Hi all, >> Something to consider..... >> If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move to restore Imperial Measures? >> We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. >> We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. >> Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. >> Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. >> Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to become metric. >> But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage works OK, >> easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not Vorderman or Riley, >> when it comes to Maths! >> (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the nearest 5mm, >> so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either '5' or '0') >> *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet fallen over, >> in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! >> Best >> Pat H > > -- > Dave Plowman > London, SW > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From waresound at msn.com Tue Jun 13 09:25:51 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 14:25:51 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <260cefb0-c228-f010-2d85-d3cb0d9a38a7@gmail.com> References: <260cefb0-c228-f010-2d85-d3cb0d9a38a7@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well I was certainly taught Imperial. Even as a junior Prep School kid, it seemed to me that the very idea of non-decimal was utterly absurd. Guineas, Pounds, half-Crowns, Florins, Shillings sixpenses, thruppny -bits, and pence. And then, Minutes, hours, days (12 hours or 24 hours), weeks, months and years. I mean, really, who in their right mind???? No wonder I failed ?O? level maths and had to go from school to Tech College to get it. But that?s where I met girls properly for the first time, and learnt that if you?re not careful, 1 and 1 makes 3, so maybe not such a bad thing. Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad > On 13 Jun 2023, at 13:46, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Was wondering just how old you'd need to be to have still been taught imperial at school? > >> On 13/06/2023 12:10, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >> Hi all, >> Something to consider..... >> If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move to restore Imperial Measures? >> We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. >> We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. >> Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. >> Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. >> Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to become metric. >> But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage works OK, >> easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not Vorderman or Riley, >> when it comes to Maths! >> (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the nearest 5mm, >> so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either '5' or '0') >> *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet fallen over, >> in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! >> Best >> Pat H > > -- > Dave Plowman > London, SW > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Jun 13 09:31:37 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 15:31:37 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Comics was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <260cefb0-c228-f010-2d85-d3cb0d9a38a7@gmail.com> References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> <260cefb0-c228-f010-2d85-d3cb0d9a38a7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7662a89f-aa26-791c-d5ce-592ec7d5020e@amps.net> I was born late 1942, so do the math. I lived in Singapore for two years around 7 or 8 years old, and they had decimal currency there 100 cents = 1 Straits dollar. I became familiar with US comics - Captain Marvel and Superman, so had a head start on my fellow pupils incarcerated in the boarding school on my return to the UK. I had Beano & Dandy & Hotspur, maybe Rover, but the headmaster banned everything except Eagle - pinned up the splendid expanded centre page drawings. But we did follow Dan Dare and the Mekon. I caught up with Desperate Dan, Dennis the Menace and the like in the holidays. If anyone saw the stage play Return to the Forbidden Planet at the Cambridge Theatre, it was a brilliant take on Dan Dare and Forbidden Planet. I was on a two camera shoot, but the American producer waltzed off back to the States and never paid the facility company for the equipment or tapes. But that's another story. Pat H On 13/06/2023 13:45, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > Was wondering just how old you'd need to be to have still been taught > imperial at school? > From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Tue Jun 13 09:38:15 2023 From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 15:38:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: <260cefb0-c228-f010-2d85-d3cb0d9a38a7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00f201d99e04$b0385580$10a90080$@pgtmedia.co.uk> I learnt that at swap over between L.S.D. and new pence, the sweet shops would swindle you! As 3d was worth 1 1/4 new pence you only got 1p's worth of sweets and no change as the smallest coin was 1/2P. You needed to save your old pennies to quantities that converted with no remainder to avoid missing out. A lot of prices were rounded up due to the swap over.. Paul Thackray PGT Media Consulting Ltd. +44 7802 243979 Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746 IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/ -----Original Message----- From: Tech1 On Behalf Of Nick Ware via Tech1 Sent: 13 June 2023 15:26 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric Well I was certainly taught Imperial. Even as a junior Prep School kid, it seemed to me that the very idea of non-decimal was utterly absurd. Guineas, Pounds, half-Crowns, Florins, Shillings sixpenses, thruppny -bits, and pence. And then, Minutes, hours, days (12 hours or 24 hours), weeks, months and years. I mean, really, who in their right mind???? No wonder I failed ?O? level maths and had to go from school to Tech College to get it. But that?s where I met girls properly for the first time, and learnt that if you?re not careful, 1 and 1 makes 3, so maybe not such a bad thing. Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad > On 13 Jun 2023, at 13:46, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Was wondering just how old you'd need to be to have still been taught imperial at school? > >> On 13/06/2023 12:10, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >> Hi all, >> Something to consider..... >> If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move to restore Imperial Measures? >> We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. >> We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. >> Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. >> Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. >> Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to become metric. >> But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage >> works OK, easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones >> are not Vorderman or Riley, when it comes to Maths! >> (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the >> nearest 5mm, so their calculations for quantity surveying always end >> up as either '5' or '0') *I knew him well - he made the Post Office >> Tower stand up - not yet fallen over, in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! >> Best >> Pat H > > -- > Dave Plowman > London, SW > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dave at davesound.co.uk Tue Jun 13 10:27:28 2023 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 16:27:28 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: <260cefb0-c228-f010-2d85-d3cb0d9a38a7@gmail.com> Message-ID: You have to remember that those in the public eye - like Rees-Mogg and his like, who want to go back to imperial -? almost certainly never do the shopping and wouldn't know a ring spanner from a open ender. I'm one of those who tends to draw things out to scale on the computer, before doing? a job. Even for things like tiling a wall. Much easier to adjust things in a drawing than wish you'd known afterwards. And the idea of scaling using yards feet and inches simply stupid. On 13/06/2023 15:01, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > I left school in 1967 and was taught both measurement systems. Science was always in metric units, maths could be in either and metalwork was imperial, but the metalwork teacher was close to retirement anyway and very set in his ways. It was frustrating because at that time, steel and brass was sold in imperial dimensions, while aluminium was in metric. He would always refer to 12mm aluminium bar as ??, but in reality it was a touch smaller than that. > > Once I left school and started buying tools, I always bought metric tools unless I needed drills, taps & dies or spanners for old stuff, and my efforts at baking have always been metric too. > > I find it bizarre that the reason given for going back to imperial units is because the changeover to metric has been inconsistent. If anybody is concerned about inconsistencies, then the logical course of action would be to fully convert to metric units and be done with it. The number of people who were taught imperial units is now a small and ever diminishing minority of the population. > > Alan > > >> On 13 Jun 2023, at 13:46, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote >> ?Was wondering just how old you'd need to be to have still been taught imperial at school? >> >>> On 13/06/2023 12:10, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> Something to consider..... >>> If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move to restore Imperial Measures? >>> We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. >>> We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. >>> Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. >>> Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. >>> Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to become metric. >>> But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage works OK, >>> easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not Vorderman or Riley, >>> when it comes to Maths! >>> (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the nearest 5mm, >>> so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either '5' or '0') >>> *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet fallen over, >>> in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! >>> Best >>> Pat H >> -- >> Dave Plowman >> London, SW >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Dave P London SW From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Tue Jun 13 10:38:28 2023 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 16:38:28 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> <64716D79-6CD3-4738-BEC4-151B4D67C634@sky.com> Message-ID: <5ede1ace-6f43-725d-cc68-2c58443605d1@chriswoolf.co.uk> On 13/06/2023 13:15, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > .... > > [Buying an EV] > Also, not enough charging points and some didn't work with attempted > payment with > credit card. > Whoever thought up this scheme, likened to jumping off the high dive > board, > and discovering that there is no water in the pool. > This is the same sort of argument that we had with so many things (including heat pumps). The point is to look at the rest of the world and see what they are managing. If other countries can manage them perfectly well, and have done so for a goodly while, then we should ask why something seems to fail here. It isn't that an EV is the wrong thing to buy, or a heat pump the most efficient way of heating a house, or that we need twice as many doctors and nurses - it is that our government cannot see a week into the future, has no workable policies for implementing any of these things, and fails totally to set up any infrastructure that would allow anyone else to do it. Chris Woolf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Tue Jun 13 10:48:59 2023 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 16:48:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <5ede1ace-6f43-725d-cc68-2c58443605d1@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> <64716D79-6CD3-4738-BEC4-151B4D67C634@sky.com> <5ede1ace-6f43-725d-cc68-2c58443605d1@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: Quite so, Chris. But let's divert things to the most important issue like a trans man using a woman's toilet. Something which concerns all, every day of their lives. Even when they can't afford to heat their house. On 13/06/2023 16:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > > On 13/06/2023 13:15, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >> >> .... >> >> [Buying an EV] >> Also, not enough charging points and some didn't work with attempted >> payment with >> credit card. >> Whoever thought up this scheme, likened to jumping off the high dive >> board, >> and discovering that there is no water in the pool. >> > This is the same sort of argument that we had with so many things > (including heat pumps). The point is to look at the rest of the world > and see what they are managing. If other countries can manage them > perfectly well, and have done so for a goodly while, then we should > ask why something seems to fail here. > > It isn't that an EV is the wrong thing to buy, or a heat pump the most > efficient way of heating a house, or that we need twice as many > doctors and nurses - it is that our government cannot see a week into > the future, has no workable policies for implementing any of these > things, and fails totally to set up any infrastructure that would > allow anyone else to do it. > > Chris Woolf > > > -- Dave P London SW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jun 13 11:31:49 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 17:31:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2CFF6B79-39D5-41AE-BD65-EDD193D4D00B@me.com> > On 13 Jun 2023, at 16:27, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > I'm one of those who tends to draw things out to scale on the computer, before doing a job. Even for things like tiling a wall. Much easier to adjust things in a drawing than wish you'd known afterwards. And the idea of scaling using yards feet and inches simply stupid. I?m also one for planning projects on my computer and have been doing so since 1989 when I first got a laser printer and could make PCBs by the toner transfer method. Over the years I?ve used quite a few software packages, but something I discovered early on is to never adjust dimensions with a mouse, always use numerical input to enter precise dimensions and then get elements into place either by setting X-Y values or by nudging them using the cursor keys. Guides are useful too to make sure that things neatly line up as intended. About three years ago we wanted to refurbish the family bathroom. We wanted built in cupboards, but no commercially available ones could be fitted into the space. The solution was to design my own, but instead of making a scale drawing, I took advantage of the fact that my software allowed me to use custom page sizes. I created a page the size of the bathroom wall and designed the furniture at 1:1 scale, but worked on at it at a hugely zoomed out view, which would fit on my monitor. It was much easier on the brain to work on it full size and I could also easily print out sheets which could be taped to the work and used as accurate drilling or cutting templates. For some parts I printed elements onto paper, stuck them to cardboard to make a full size mock-up to judge how it would all work in situ. Alan From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Tue Jun 13 12:08:31 2023 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 18:08:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <2CFF6B79-39D5-41AE-BD65-EDD193D4D00B@me.com> References: <2CFF6B79-39D5-41AE-BD65-EDD193D4D00B@me.com> Message-ID: <0080f7c0-56af-fdf6-f546-8eb8a4ca3083@chriswoolf.co.uk> Absolutely - the less complex the maths needed to get scaling etc correct the better. The errors /always/ come in the initial measurement and the sums. As to any return to Imperial units - you would need to be as daft as the Rees Mogg entourage. The US has struggled with trying to maintain Imperial measures and integrate their science and engineering into modern day units. That has ended in disaster several times - satellites that don't end up in the right place, planes that crash because they were fueled in litres and entered gallons in the flight computer. Although we didn't do "metric" properly - we do have history in that sort of thing - we did help our tech industry enormously by junking most of the archaic stuff and eventually ending up with System Internationale. That started in 1968, though the 1970 Tory government then tried to row back on it (which is why it is as unfinished as Brexit). This all preceded the initial entry into the ECC (1975). Metric has nothing to do with our membership of the EU. Chris Woolf On 13/06/2023 17:31, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > >> On 13 Jun 2023, at 16:27, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> I'm one of those who tends to draw things out to scale on the computer, before doing a job. Even for things like tiling a wall. Much easier to adjust things in a drawing than wish you'd known afterwards. And the idea of scaling using yards feet and inches simply stupid. > I?m also one for planning projects on my computer and have been doing so since 1989 when I first got a laser printer and could make PCBs by the toner transfer method. Over the years I?ve used quite a few software packages, but something I discovered early on is to never adjust dimensions with a mouse, always use numerical input to enter precise dimensions and then get elements into place either by setting X-Y values or by nudging them using the cursor keys. Guides are useful too to make sure that things neatly line up as intended. > > About three years ago we wanted to refurbish the family bathroom. We wanted built in cupboards, but no commercially available ones could be fitted into the space. The solution was to design my own, but instead of making a scale drawing, I took advantage of the fact that my software allowed me to use custom page sizes. I created a page the size of the bathroom wall and designed the furniture at 1:1 scale, but worked on at it at a hugely zoomed out view, which would fit on my monitor. > > It was much easier on the brain to work on it full size and I could also easily print out sheets which could be taped to the work and used as accurate drilling or cutting templates. For some parts I printed elements onto paper, stuck them to cardboard to make a full size mock-up to judge how it would all work in situ. > > Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rerb2 at cam.ac.uk Tue Jun 13 12:32:48 2023 From: rerb2 at cam.ac.uk (R.E.R. Bunce) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2023 17:32:48 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Lime Grove Message-ID: Dear All, In case you haven't seen this, the final TV footage from Lime Grove: https://t.co/OjwV5ttRVP Best wishes, Robin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From w12rogers at gmail.com Wed Jun 14 02:39:23 2023 From: w12rogers at gmail.com (Georgie and Steve Rogers) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 08:39:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Lime Grove In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Like to know which of the Lime Grove crews shot that. I was there from 85-jan 90 when I supervised the move to TVC of Breakfast.Great place to work, very many happy memories. Steve Rogers. On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 18:33, R.E.R. Bunce via Tech1 wrote: > Dear All, > > In case you haven't seen this, the final TV footage from Lime Grove: > > https://t.co/OjwV5ttRVP > > Best wishes, > > Robin > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saranewman at hotmail.com Wed Jun 14 04:27:00 2023 From: saranewman at hotmail.com (Sara Newman) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 09:27:00 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Lime Grove In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, what happy memories For some reason I ended up doing every Saturday for 6 months on Grandstand. I remember when new smoke/ fire detector s had been fitted and we had been sternly warned about them and just as the results were about to start they went off and we went off air- it turned out the producer had stood directly beneath one smoking his cigar Another time it was hit by lighting, and again we went off air! I knitted a jumper and hemmed a dress sitting on the locked off results camera over those weeks but my admiration goes to the two lovely signwriters who created the racing captions Not only were they quick perfectionists but they were lovely chaps! The rig at one point was involved as everyone wanted their own Toshiba monitor -a sign of status but for some reason they started to give small electric shocks and were deemed dangerous and they were removed Oh happy days!! Sarax Sent from my iPhone On 14 Jun 2023, at 08:40, Georgie and Steve Rogers via Tech1 wrote: ? Like to know which of the Lime Grove crews shot that. I was there from 85-jan 90 when I supervised the move to TVC of Breakfast.Great place to work, very many happy memories. Steve Rogers. On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 18:33, R.E.R. Bunce via Tech1 > wrote: Dear All, In case you haven't seen this, the final TV footage from Lime Grove: https://t.co/OjwV5ttRVP Best wishes, Robin -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From w12rogers at gmail.com Wed Jun 14 04:32:26 2023 From: w12rogers at gmail.com (Georgie and Steve Rogers) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 10:32:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Lime Grove In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ah! the locked of camera on the results caption. I remember doing a Match of the day,heard the opening music woke up to the closing credits !!! On Wed, 14 Jun 2023 at 10:27, Sara Newman wrote: > Hi, what happy memories For some reason I ended up doing every Saturday > for 6 months on Grandstand. I remember when new smoke/ fire detector s had > been fitted and we had been sternly warned about them and just as the > results were about to start they went off and we went off air- it turned > out the producer had stood directly beneath one smoking his cigar Another > time it was hit by lighting, and again we went off air! I knitted a jumper > and hemmed a dress sitting on the locked off results camera over those > weeks but my admiration goes to the two lovely signwriters who created the > racing captions Not only were they quick perfectionists but they were > lovely chaps! The rig at one point was involved as everyone wanted their > own Toshiba monitor -a sign of status but for some reason they started to > give small electric shocks and were deemed dangerous and they were removed > Oh happy days!! Sarax > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 14 Jun 2023, at 08:40, Georgie and Steve Rogers via Tech1 < > tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > > ? > Like to know which of the Lime Grove crews shot that. I was there from > 85-jan 90 when I supervised the move to TVC of Breakfast.Great place to > work, very many happy memories. > Steve Rogers. > > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 18:33, R.E.R. Bunce via Tech1 > wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> In case you haven't seen this, the final TV footage from Lime Grove: >> >> https://t.co/OjwV5ttRVP >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Robin >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Wed Jun 14 04:33:47 2023 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 10:33:47 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Lime Grove In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Been there! > On 14 Jun 2023, at 10:32, Georgie and Steve Rogers via Tech1 wrote: > > Ah! the locked of camera on the results caption. I remember doing a Match of the day,heard the opening music woke up to the closing credits !!! > > On Wed, 14 Jun 2023 at 10:27, Sara Newman wrote: > Hi, what happy memories For some reason I ended up doing every Saturday for 6 months on Grandstand. I remember when new smoke/ fire detector s had been fitted and we had been sternly warned about them and just as the results were about to start they went off and we went off air- it turned out the producer had stood directly beneath one smoking his cigar Another time it was hit by lighting, and again we went off air! I knitted a jumper and hemmed a dress sitting on the locked off results camera over those weeks but my admiration goes to the two lovely signwriters who created the racing captions Not only were they quick perfectionists but they were lovely chaps! The rig at one point was involved as everyone wanted their own Toshiba monitor -a sign of status but for some reason they started to give small electric shocks and were deemed dangerous and they were removed Oh happy days!! Sarax > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 14 Jun 2023, at 08:40, Georgie and Steve Rogers via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ? Like to know which of the Lime Grove crews shot that. I was there from 85-jan 90 when I supervised the move to TVC of Breakfast.Great place to work, very many happy memories. >> Steve Rogers. >> >> >> On Tue, 13 Jun 2023 at 18:33, R.E.R. Bunce via Tech1 wrote: >> Dear All, >> >> In case you haven't seen this, the final TV footage from Lime Grove: >> >> https://t.co/OjwV5ttRVP >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Robin >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ? Graeme Wall From alawrance1 at me.com Wed Jun 14 08:14:54 2023 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 14:14:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> Message-ID: <4C6F2E82-DC8D-46E5-9D6F-1148FB851BCC@me.com> Dealing (as I used to do, anyway), with ancient BMC diesels, and assorted other more obscure makes, it was fine when everything went metric. One wrinkle that did come up regularly was a 8mm ? thread which some manufacturers deemed a 12 mm spanner, and others a 13mm (across flats). 13mm (AF) is the correct ISO size. Alasdair Lawrance alawrance1 at me.com Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:13, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: > > Converting to the metric system had nothing to do with the EU, we started the process over 100 years ago. > >> On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:10, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> Something to consider..... >> If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move to restore Imperial Measures? >> We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. >> We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. >> Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. >> Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. >> Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to become metric. >> But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage works OK, >> easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not Vorderman or Riley, >> when it comes to Maths! >> (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the nearest 5mm, >> so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either '5' or '0') >> *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet fallen over, >> in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! >> Best >> Pat H >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > ? > Graeme Wall > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Wed Jun 14 08:17:20 2023 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 14:17:20 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <4C6F2E82-DC8D-46E5-9D6F-1148FB851BCC@me.com> References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> <4C6F2E82-DC8D-46E5-9D6F-1148FB851BCC@me.com> Message-ID: When I changed my Mini for a Datsun, I suddenly needed a lot less spanners! > On 14 Jun 2023, at 14:14, Alasdair Lawrance wrote: > > Dealing (as I used to do, anyway), with ancient BMC diesels, and assorted other more obscure makes, it was fine when everything went metric. > > One wrinkle that did come up regularly was a 8mm ? thread which some manufacturers deemed a 12 mm spanner, and others a 13mm (across flats). 13mm (AF) is the correct ISO size. > > Alasdair Lawrance > alawrance1 at me.com > > Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > > > > > > > > > > >> On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:13, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Converting to the metric system had nothing to do with the EU, we started the process over 100 years ago. >> >>> On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:10, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Something to consider..... >>> If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move to restore Imperial Measures? >>> We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. >>> We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. >>> Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. >>> Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. >>> Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to become metric. >>> But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage works OK, >>> easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not Vorderman or Riley, >>> when it comes to Maths! >>> (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the nearest 5mm, >>> so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either '5' or '0') >>> *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet fallen over, >>> in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! >>> Best >>> Pat H >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> ? >> Graeme Wall >> >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > ? Graeme Wall From alawrance1 at me.com Wed Jun 14 08:20:34 2023 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 14:20:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> <4C6F2E82-DC8D-46E5-9D6F-1148FB851BCC@me.com> Message-ID: <47D349E4-1BB4-4ADD-834E-C1315F301FE8@me.com> I will let someone else say it....! Alasdair Lawrance alawrance1 at me.com Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > On 14 Jun 2023, at 14:17, Graeme Wall wrote: > > When I changed my Mini for a Datsun, I suddenly needed a lot less spanners! > >> On 14 Jun 2023, at 14:14, Alasdair Lawrance wrote: >> >> Dealing (as I used to do, anyway), with ancient BMC diesels, and assorted other more obscure makes, it was fine when everything went metric. >> >> One wrinkle that did come up regularly was a 8mm ? thread which some manufacturers deemed a 12 mm spanner, and others a 13mm (across flats). 13mm (AF) is the correct ISO size. >> >> Alasdair Lawrance >> alawrance1 at me.com >> >> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:13, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> Converting to the metric system had nothing to do with the EU, we started the process over 100 years ago. >>> >>>> On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:10, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> Something to consider..... >>>> If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move to restore Imperial Measures? >>>> We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. >>>> We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. >>>> Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. >>>> Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. >>>> Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to become metric. >>>> But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage works OK, >>>> easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not Vorderman or Riley, >>>> when it comes to Maths! >>>> (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the nearest 5mm, >>>> so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either '5' or '0') >>>> *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet fallen over, >>>> in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! >>>> Best >>>> Pat H >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >>> ? >>> Graeme Wall >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > > ? > Graeme Wall > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Wed Jun 14 08:31:14 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 14:31:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <4C6F2E82-DC8D-46E5-9D6F-1148FB851BCC@me.com> References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> <4C6F2E82-DC8D-46E5-9D6F-1148FB851BCC@me.com> Message-ID: I was actually quite happy with the old unified threads BMC mainly used - as I could tell a spanner size at a glance. But my last BL vehicle - the SD1 Rover I still have - has unified for the engine, but metric for nearly everything else. But to add confusion, the new bits on the old Rover V8, like the injection, use metric. On 14/06/2023 14:14, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: > Dealing (as I used to do, anyway), with ancient BMC diesels, and > assorted other more obscure makes, it was fine when everything went metric. > > One wrinkle that did come up regularly was a 8mm ? thread which some > manufacturers deemed a 12 mm spanner, and others a 13mm (across flats). > ?13mm (AF) is the correct ISO size. > > Alasdair Lawrance > alawrance1 at me.com > > /*Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.* > / > > > > > > > > > >> On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:13, Graeme Wall via Tech1 > > wrote: >> >> Converting to the metric system had nothing to do with the EU, we >> started the process over 100 years ago. >> >>> On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:10, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> Something to consider..... >>> If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a >>> move to restore Imperial Measures? >>> We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. >>> We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. >>> Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. >>> Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. >>> Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to >>> become metric. >>> But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage >>> works OK, >>> easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not >>> Vorderman or Riley, >>> when it comes to Maths! >>> (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the >>> nearest 5mm, >>> so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either >>> '5' or '0') >>> *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet >>> fallen over, >>> in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! >>> Best >>> Pat H >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> ? >> Graeme Wall >> >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- Dave Plowman London, SW From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Wed Jun 14 08:59:41 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 14:59:41 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Sometimes think the world is out to get me... Message-ID: <66f711c8-018e-78ee-24b5-0973a023994c@gmail.com> Since I'm selling my old Rover, due to the UKEZ, I decided to sell some of the rare spares I'd kept squirrelled way - as you do. One such was a sunroof switch. About the size of a Matchbox toy car. It made an excellent price on Ebay - ?90. Chap who won turned out to be in the Netherlands, but added ?15 to the purchase price for P&P there - I'd made it free to the UK. Since Ebay had my money, decided to use their postal service. They recommended PO International Tracked, so went for that. Printed out the labels for postage and customs they supplied. Was a bit put out as I had to take it to a PO. With the usual queue. The reason I normally use Evri as they have a convenient 24 hour locker where I can post things. It was posted on the 30th May. By the 9th of June, it had arrived at the Netherlands customs, and there it has stayed. By the tracking. Buyer has now asked Ebay for a refund. Since their tracking said delivery should be by the 11th. I've just discovered the maximum compensation I can get from the PO is ?50. I'd guess it is all just another Brexit benefit. Dave Plowman London, SW From alanaudio at me.com Wed Jun 14 10:07:28 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 16:07:28 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <4C6F2E82-DC8D-46E5-9D6F-1148FB851BCC@me.com> References: <4C6F2E82-DC8D-46E5-9D6F-1148FB851BCC@me.com> Message-ID: <933304E4-7A0C-4EED-8E37-64F6B03F569E@me.com> > On 14 Jun 2023, at 14:15, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: > > One wrinkle that did come up regularly was a 8mm ? thread which some manufacturers deemed a 12 mm spanner, and others a 13mm (across flats). 13mm (AF) is the correct ISO size. Spanner sizes aren?t as precise as you might hope. I?ve got quite a collection of open end or ring spanners and socket sets in imperial and metric sizes, but there are plenty of occasions when a particular nut can?t be accommodated by a particular spanner, but a different one stamped with the same nominal size will fit it perfectly. Realistically you expect +/- a certain tolerance, but I don?t expect that tolerance to make the difference between fitting and not fitting. Alan From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Wed Jun 14 11:34:58 2023 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 17:34:58 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <4C6F2E82-DC8D-46E5-9D6F-1148FB851BCC@me.com> References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> <4C6F2E82-DC8D-46E5-9D6F-1148FB851BCC@me.com> Message-ID: <82683B5BCC5B4E85ABDCD3D8180735D3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Indeed Alasdair, 13 mm as you note. Here is the sequence - Metric Spanner Sizes Nominal Size Spanner Size M1.6 3.2mm M2 4mm M2.5 5mm M3 5.5mm M3.5 6mm M4 7mm M5 8mm M6 10mm M7 11mm M8 * *13mm M10 17mm M12 19mm M14 22mm M16 24mm M18 27mm M20 30mm M22 32mm M24 36mm Dave Newbitt. From: Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2023 2:14 PM To: Graeme Wall Cc: Tech Ops List Subject: Re: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric Dealing (as I used to do, anyway), with ancient BMC diesels, and assorted other more obscure makes, it was fine when everything went metric. One wrinkle that did come up regularly was a 8mm ? thread which some manufacturers deemed a 12 mm spanner, and others a 13mm (across flats). 13mm (AF) is the correct ISO size. Alasdair Lawrance alawrance1 at me.com Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:13, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: Converting to the metric system had nothing to do with the EU, we started the process over 100 years ago. On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:10, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: Hi all, Something to consider..... If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move to restore Imperial Measures? We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to become metric. But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage works OK, easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not Vorderman or Riley, when it comes to Maths! (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the nearest 5mm, so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either '5' or '0') *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet fallen over, in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! Best Pat H -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ? Graeme Wall -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Wed Jun 14 12:56:11 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 17:56:11 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <82683B5BCC5B4E85ABDCD3D8180735D3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net> <4C6F2E82-DC8D-46E5-9D6F-1148FB851BCC@me.com> <82683B5BCC5B4E85ABDCD3D8180735D3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: I?m curious to know where you got that table from. All of the M2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, 5 and M6 bolts that I have, the number refers to the overall thread diameter, not the nut size. A but in any given nut and bolt pair, the nut can vary a lot. The right spanner to use is the one that fits! Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad On 14 Jun 2023, at 17:35, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: ? Indeed Alasdair, 13 mm as you note. Here is the sequence - Metric Spanner Sizes Nominal Size Spanner Size M1.6 3.2mm M2 4mm M2.5 5mm M3 5.5mm M3.5 6mm M4 7mm M5 8mm M6 10mm M7 11mm M8 * *13mm M10 17mm M12 19mm M14 22mm M16 24mm M18 27mm M20 30mm M22 32mm M24 36mm Dave Newbitt. From: Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2023 2:14 PM To: Graeme Wall Cc: Tech Ops List Subject: Re: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric Dealing (as I used to do, anyway), with ancient BMC diesels, and assorted other more obscure makes, it was fine when everything went metric. One wrinkle that did come up regularly was a 8mm ? thread which some manufacturers deemed a 12 mm spanner, and others a 13mm (across flats). 13mm (AF) is the correct ISO size. Alasdair Lawrance alawrance1 at me.com Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:13, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: Converting to the metric system had nothing to do with the EU, we started the process over 100 years ago. On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:10, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: Hi all, Something to consider..... If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move to restore Imperial Measures? We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to become metric. But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage works OK, easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not Vorderman or Riley, when it comes to Maths! (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the nearest 5mm, so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either '5' or '0') *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet fallen over, in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! Best Pat H -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ? Graeme Wall -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ________________________________ -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Wed Jun 14 13:09:32 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 19:09:32 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry-wilkinson at sky.com Wed Jun 14 13:22:23 2023 From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 19:22:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2A3CE79E-272B-41EC-9DE4-8584EC60D5C5@sky.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alawrance1 at me.com Wed Jun 14 15:56:22 2023 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 21:56:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <2A3CE79E-272B-41EC-9DE4-8584EC60D5C5@sky.com> References: <2A3CE79E-272B-41EC-9DE4-8584EC60D5C5@sky.com> Message-ID: <2E6DB3F1-98F3-4D2D-BA7A-A542EC2B3755@me.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Wed Jun 14 17:37:17 2023 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2023 23:37:17 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: <7be1cbc2-edb8-13a1-16fc-5c2ed0839381@amps.net><4C6F2E82-DC8D-46E5-9D6F-1148FB851BCC@me.com><82683B5BCC5B4E85ABDCD3D8180735D3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: I spent a good many years working in Builder?s & Plumbers Merchants filling various roles from Asst. Manager to Admin manager also Buyer for both lightside and heavyside goods. I have retained a lot of information without any systematic record of provenance and I offered the sizeings believing them to be correct. As with most past experience much is forgotten but to the best of my recollection where fixings were listed as unified system there was an accepted fixed correlation between bolt thread diameters and bolt head and nut sizes. That is not to say that manufactured products may for particular purposes not have conformed to this but they would not strictly have been within the unified systems. A good example of confusing information relates to the history of spanner sizes for the old BSW/BSF bolts and nuts. Here is an extract covering the topic: The BSF head size is one step smaller than BSW. However, during the Second World War the standards were revised as an austerity measure to reduce steel consumption and this resulted in the normal BSW head sizes being reduced by one step, basically making the BSW = BSF head size. In 1954 a further revision occurred using ?BS? to refer to the BSF/BSW size and ?W? for the original large hexagon size. As a result, spanners are marked along the lines of ?1/4 W 5/16 BS? indicating the jaws are sized for a 1/4? large hexagon Whitworth bolt, or the next step up at 5/16? for BSF/BSW. Typically, you will find BSF/BSW used in British equipment designed before 1948 (for instance early Land Rover and Austin Healey gearboxes). Pipe threads are another minefield. BSP threads differ from American pipe threads and in the hydraulic field some components sold here have American thread sizes and the two do not mix well! All designed to keep us on our toes! Dave Newbitt From: Nick Ware via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2023 6:56 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric I?m curious to know where you got that table from. All of the M2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, 5 and M6 bolts that I have, the number refers to the overall thread diameter, not the nut size. A but in any given nut and bolt pair, the nut can vary a lot. The right spanner to use is the one that fits! Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad On 14 Jun 2023, at 17:35, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: ? Indeed Alasdair, 13 mm as you note. Here is the sequence - Metric Spanner Sizes Nominal Size Spanner Size M1.6 3.2mm M2 4mm M2.5 5mm M3 5.5mm M3.5 6mm M4 7mm M5 8mm M6 10mm M7 11mm M8 * *13mm M10 17mm M12 19mm M14 22mm M16 24mm M18 27mm M20 30mm M22 32mm M24 36mm Dave Newbitt. From: Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2023 2:14 PM To: Graeme Wall Cc: Tech Ops List Subject: Re: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric Dealing (as I used to do, anyway), with ancient BMC diesels, and assorted other more obscure makes, it was fine when everything went metric. One wrinkle that did come up regularly was a 8mm ? thread which some manufacturers deemed a 12 mm spanner, and others a 13mm (across flats). 13mm (AF) is the correct ISO size. Alasdair Lawrance alawrance1 at me.com Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:13, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: Converting to the metric system had nothing to do with the EU, we started the process over 100 years ago. On 13 Jun 2023, at 12:10, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: Hi all, Something to consider..... If we have really exited the European Union, should there not be a move to restore Imperial Measures? We seem to have an amalgam of complicated mixture. We talk about MPG for cars, but the fuel is dispensed in litres. Pubs still serve beer in pints. Although the bottles are in ml. Doctors measure us in centimetres and weigh us in Kg. Grocers and butchers were forced to alter their scales and tills to become metric. But now to change currency back would not be good - decimal coinage works OK, easier to understand (as in the USA) and our little ones are not Vorderman or Riley, when it comes to Maths! (A Civil Engineer* explained to me that builders work in mm to the nearest 5mm, so their calculations for quantity surveying always end up as either '5' or '0') *I knew him well - he made the Post Office Tower stand up - not yet fallen over, in spite of 'The Goodies' Kitten! Best Pat H -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ? Graeme Wall -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jun 15 05:06:27 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 11:06:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> Message-ID: It is amazing and excellent that amongst the pool of tech-ops talent, there is always someone who knows the answer to just about anything. I have a vague recollection that if we thought up or invented anything, it became the property of the BBC, since one was under contract. The Mair mirror comes to mind, but management reacted badly when my Wood Norton room mate experimented with a lipstick minicam mounted in a mike boom. A brilliant idea, but instead of seizing upon the idea for further development (think Jimmy Jib), they gave my chum a wrist smack for ?unauthorised use of BBC equipment?! There is something called ?Intellectual Property Rights?, but being under contact, probably is negated. I came across a nasty hi-jack. Having been a regular Grams Op on Dr. Who, I was asked to produce a diagram of the pluggery for the Dalek voices. Duly done and signed by myself, only to discover that prior to general release the then head of sound had erased my sig. and inserted his own. I was really grateful for the eight years of in-depth training afforded by the BBC, it stood me in great stead when I freelanced into feature films. Knowledge was freely shared within the BBC departments, but in the film industry I came across jealously held technique secrets which could mean the difference of gaining the job against a rival. At TVC, I was guilty of doing that. The ill-advised idea of bringing in direct entry graduates to leapfrog to Sound Supervisor those of us who had spent six years learning the trade, went against the grain, and I was not about to divulge little tricks that I had developed over the years, to have someone ?jump the queue?. Some colleagues might have thought that I resigned because of that, but no ? I had the chance to move into feature films which I had always wanted, having seen ?South Pacific? in a fleapit cinema in the Isle of Wight, which was the first playhouse there to run Cinemascope and stereo sound! I?ve always been keen on good presentation ? give the customers a show! It appals me at the slapdash way that all the TV channels don?t care anymore. But I?m drifting into another ?moan? area! Best Pat H On 14/06/2023 19:09, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > Without looking it up, that table looks about right to me, judging by > the metric threads where I know which spanner size to use, > particularly sizes up to M6. What do you think is wrong? > > Alan > > > >> On 14 Jun 2023, at 18:56, Nick Ware via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? I?m curious to know where you got that table from. All of the M2.5, >> 3, 3.5, 4, 5 and M6 bolts that I have, the number refers to the >> overall thread diameter, not the nut size. A but in any given nut and >> bolt pair, the nut can vary a lot. The right spanner to use is the >> one that fits! >> Cheers, >> Nick. >> >> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonynuttall at me.com Thu Jun 15 05:28:19 2023 From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 10:28:19 -0000 Subject: [Tech1] Metric Imperial Conversions Hand Book Message-ID: <630899bf-bf63-4ab0-9144-c0bf1a566843@me.com> One of my many times used ref book that was my fathers inWartime. He patched up downed aircraft that could be flownout from there ?May Day landing sites.For a small pocket book 12.5 x ?8 cm it depth of knowledgefor a pocket book is immense. Highly recommend. E Bay ?3-00MOLESWORTHS POCKET BOOK OF ENGINEERING FORMULA 27TH EDITION | eBayebay.co.ukThis is my copy ?of my books frontise pieceTony N. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0129.HEIC Type: image/heic Size: 982777 bytes Desc: not available URL: From barry-wilkinson at sky.com Thu Jun 15 05:40:49 2023 From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 11:40:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01E0A22A-FA42-4A07-B7F5-D82279E78B1D@sky.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jun 15 06:07:29 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 12:07:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <01E0A22A-FA42-4A07-B7F5-D82279E78B1D@sky.com> References: <01E0A22A-FA42-4A07-B7F5-D82279E78B1D@sky.com> Message-ID: <4e9bce28-00bf-2bba-efd7-7125b4c90670@amps.net> Interesting comment, Barry. I worked for 17 weeks on an ATV production set in Switzerland. Two directors. One was old school features, the other (whom I knew) was from TV. I learned from the producers that the edit was adjusted from the features man to match the TV style. Pity. Pat (80 Grumpy and proud of it!) On 15/06/2023 11:40, B Wilkinson wrote: > Maybe it?s because it?s all shot out of sequence and time so you > effectively get a mix of directors on each show? > Mr Angry From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Thu Jun 15 06:40:36 2023 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 12:40:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> Message-ID: <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> Hi all, On 15/06/2023 11:06, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > if we thought up or invented anything, it became the property of the BBC, - and followed this with a couple of tales. I went another route.? Had a bright idea and submitted it, via HTO Tel S to Research and Development. Think "DufayColor" applied to a C.P.S.Emitron! If you are interested, I have attached their "rejection" letter.? It was based on an outdated technology - as I then thought - as EMI weren't making the tubes any more... In case you are wondering, I did Latin, Freanc and German at "A" level - and most of us failed Latin ... Best regards, Alec -- ===================================== Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com MOD: 07789 561 346 TEL: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Proposal - One Tuibe Colour Camera 19640001.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 2942635 bytes Desc: not available URL: From geoffletch at gmail.com Thu Jun 15 06:56:12 2023 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 12:56:12 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Metric Imperial Conversions Hand Book In-Reply-To: <630899bf-bf63-4ab0-9144-c0bf1a566843@me.com> References: <630899bf-bf63-4ab0-9144-c0bf1a566843@me.com> Message-ID: Often wondered what happened to Molesworth when he left school. Geoff F On Thu, 15 Jun 2023 at 11:29, William Nuttall via Tech1 < tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > One of my many times used ref book that was my fathers in > Wartime. He patched up downed aircraft that could be flown > out from there May Day landing sites. > For a small pocket book 12.5 x 8 cm it depth of knowledge > for a pocket book is immense. Highly recommend. E Bay ?3-00 > > [image: MOLESWORTHS POCKET BOOK OF ENGINEERING FORMULA 27TH EDITION | eBay] > MOLESWORTHS POCKET BOOK OF ENGINEERING FORMULA 27TH EDITION | eBay > ebay.co.uk > > > > > This is my copy of my books frontise piece > Tony N. > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry-wilkinson at sky.com Thu Jun 15 06:57:35 2023 From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 12:57:35 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> References: <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> Message-ID: When I was a technical operator for the BBC in Cardiff after leaving Evesham I wrote off a letter to the manager there. At the time Radio was all monophonic apart from Radio 3 I think, and transmitters shut down quite early so I suggested they transmitted in stereo on the radio 3 frequency and kept it going later. I suggested putting Radio One or the light programme out late during the day. I actually got a letter back from EIEIO or similar thanking me for my suggestion but saying it wasn?t technically possible. A few months later I got another letter confirming that it was my idea , thanking me ,and that programmes would go out in stereo as I suggested. The bad news was all they transmitted was Jazz and Barry hates Jazz. Buxxer. Sent from my iPad > On 15 Jun 2023, at 12:41, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Hi all, > >> On 15/06/2023 11:06, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >> if we thought up or invented anything, it became the property of the BBC, > > - and followed this with a couple of tales. > > I went another route. Had a bright idea and submitted it, via HTO Tel S to Research and Development. Think "DufayColor" applied to a C.P.S.Emitron! If you are interested, I have attached their "rejection" letter. It was based on an outdated technology - as I then thought - as EMI weren't making the tubes any more... > > In case you are wondering, I did Latin, Freanc and German at "A" level - and most of us failed Latin ... > > Best regards, > > Alec > > > -- > ===================================== > > Alec Bray > alec.bray.2 at gmail.com > MOD: 07789 561 346 > TEL: 0118 981 7502 > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From geoffletch at gmail.com Thu Jun 15 07:17:06 2023 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 13:17:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> Message-ID: Freanc eh? A very rare language Alec. When I was doing a spell on cameras in Pres B with Mike Barrett and Bryan Edwards, Late Night Line Up recorded an interview with Edward Woodward who was in a theatre show up in the West End at the time. He brought some front of house stills with him, and the director wanted to use a few on the prog. Edward said OK but they would have to get permission from the photographer. He was right there in the studio, as it was none other than the aforementioned Mike Barrett, who ran a successful photographic biz from his house in Kew. ?Oh! We won?t need his permission, he?s a BBC employee so we have the rights to anything he invents or any original works of his - as per his employment contract.? said the producer - and then Mike pointed out that the photos were copywright of his wife, so that edict didn?t apply! A sweet moment for a bit of a rebel like me, but they decided the photos were surplus to requirements after all. Geoff F On Thu, 15 Jun 2023 at 12:41, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: > Hi all, > > On 15/06/2023 11:06, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > if we thought up or invented anything, it became the property of the > BBC, > > - and followed this with a couple of tales. > > I went another route. Had a bright idea and submitted it, via HTO Tel S > to Research and Development. Think "DufayColor" applied to a > C.P.S.Emitron! If you are interested, I have attached their "rejection" > letter. It was based on an outdated technology - as I then thought - as > EMI weren't making the tubes any more... > > In case you are wondering, I did Latin, Freanc and German at "A" level - > and most of us failed Latin ... > > Best regards, > > Alec > > > -- > ===================================== > > Alec Bray > alec.bray.2 at gmail.com > MOD: 07789 561 346 > TEL: 0118 981 7502 > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jun 15 07:29:39 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 13:29:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> Message-ID: I believe it's spoken in Paris - after a good nuit uot. On 15/06/2023 13:17, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 wrote: > Freanc eh? A very rare language Alec. > From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jun 15 08:27:49 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 14:27:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> Message-ID: <16cb8098-6b87-f9ba-835d-fac1614fbf6a@amps.net> I believe that's a dialect of Paris, to be heard after a goud nuit oot! Or maybe Glasgow! On 15/06/2023 12:40, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: > Hi all, > ? Freanc > Best regards, > > Alec > From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Thu Jun 15 08:50:39 2023 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 14:50:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f9a5832-01c7-7fe2-2eb3-5f71a3b364d4@chriswoolf.co.uk> On 15/06/2023 12:40, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: > ... > > I went another route.? Had a bright idea and submitted it.... I did actually manage to get an idea accepted, and received payment from HTOTelS for it - internal star flare filters. Duncan Thomas (then at AP) handed the award to me, and said he was embarrassed to do so - ?25! However in later life, where invention and patent have been important to my income, I'm very taken by the comment from Research Dept. "If the idea was sound it would have been thought of a long time ago". That is so true. I've had to dump countless "good ideas" because a 30 min search of patents shows that several people have thought of the same thing, or something very close. Inventing a machine or process that is radically different in the mainstream world is staggeringly difficult. Doing it in the byways and niche worlds is a little easier, but even then you would be surprised how often you hit a dead end. And even when the idea is "free" and safe to protect, it can often have some fundamental problem that prevents it working well enough to be worth proceeding with. Chris Woolf From barry-wilkinson at sky.com Thu Jun 15 09:30:24 2023 From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 15:30:24 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3596FA90-FC79-435D-B2EC-5C3C7D0D2235@sky.com> Weee ge partly freanc trays bomb. Sent from my iPad > On 15 Jun 2023, at 15:27, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ?I believe it's spoken in Paris - after a good nuit uot. > >> On 15/06/2023 13:17, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Freanc eh? A very rare language Alec. >> > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Thu Jun 15 10:00:59 2023 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 16:00:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Metric Imperial Conversions Hand Book In-Reply-To: <630899bf-bf63-4ab0-9144-c0bf1a566843@me.com> References: <630899bf-bf63-4ab0-9144-c0bf1a566843@me.com> Message-ID: Interesting to read of this publication from an era when vast amounts of engineering data could only be accessed in printed form, in marked contrast to today when much can be found in seconds online. Not quite 1941 vintage but I have two 1974 publications which in handy form list much basic information for engineering draughtsmen, machinists, fitters and the like. The Ian Bradley book, first published in 1954, runs to over 100 pages and is more than just data and tables ? it has useful workshop practice info as well. The Zeus brochure has 26 pages of reference tables and is tightly packed. If you need info on obsolete drill sizes (eg number and letter series) or details of pretty much any thread size/form/system they are a great help. Even length allowances when bending wire and sheet materials. And much more esoteric stuff as well. Dave Newbitt. From: William Nuttall via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2023 11:28 AM To: Bernard Newnham Cc: Bernard Newnham ; Bernard Newnham Subject: [Tech1] Metric Imperial Conversions Hand Book One of my many times used ref book that was my fathers in Wartime. He patched up downed aircraft that could be flown out from there May Day landing sites. For a small pocket book 12.5 x 8 cm it depth of knowledge for a pocket book is immense. Highly recommend. E Bay ?3-00 MOLESWORTHS POCKET BOOK OF ENGINEERING FORMULA 27TH EDITION | eBay ebay.co.uk This is my copy of my books frontise piece Tony N. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Bradley%20&%20Zeus[3].jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 156042 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Bradley.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 407114 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Zeus.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 734586 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Thu Jun 15 10:14:33 2023 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 16:14:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <7f9a5832-01c7-7fe2-2eb3-5f71a3b364d4@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> <7f9a5832-01c7-7fe2-2eb3-5f71a3b364d4@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <7513f043-670c-2a54-1970-6f63d161bb5d@gmail.com> Hi all, On 15/06/2023 14:50, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > search of patents shows that several people have thought of the same > thing, or something very close. Inventing a machine or process that is > radically different in the mainstream world is staggeringly difficult. Just preparing something about locomotive valve gears,? and found that one railway's Chief Mechanical Engineer got a patent for a valve gear set-up which had actually been in use on another railway for at least a year! Best regards, Alec -- ===================================== Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com MOD: 07789 561 346 TEL: 0118 981 7502 From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jun 15 10:51:15 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 16:51:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Ms Jackson Message-ID: Very sad to hear about Glenda's passing. I worked with her on a couple of films, but my main memory is thus: I recall shooting with Glenda Jackson, in Vienna (Jack Gold directing) and they wanted rain! GJ was wearing a splendid open weave woollen scarf - ideal to place the mic under it, but the rain on the material soon made it sodden, and muffled. I was forever going up and drying off the scarf, squeezing out the moisture, when Glenda remarked that we should have little rain hats for the mics. Forgetting that she once worked behind the counter in Boots, I answered that we did, and bought them in packets of three from the chemist! She retaliated by announcing that "Here am I, taking a great interest in the technicalities, when not only do I get put down, but it's an _obscene_ put down!" She took it in good part, as when the crew came to a screening at BAFTA, in the bar, she advanced upon me, arms wide, and, saying: "Where's my hug, then?" A very professional lady who didn't suffer fools gladly, (as I don't) Pat H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Thu Jun 15 12:15:46 2023 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2023 18:15:46 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <7513f043-670c-2a54-1970-6f63d161bb5d@gmail.com> References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> <7f9a5832-01c7-7fe2-2eb3-5f71a3b364d4@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7513f043-670c-2a54-1970-6f63d161bb5d@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 15/06/2023 16:14, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: > Hi all, > > On 15/06/2023 14:50, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >> search of patents shows that several people have thought of the same >> thing, or something very close. Inventing a machine or process that >> is radically different in the mainstream world is staggeringly >> difficult. > > Just preparing something about locomotive valve gears,? and found that > one railway's Chief Mechanical Engineer got a patent for a valve gear > set-up which had actually been in use on another railway for at least > a year! > > Of course that shouldn't happen, and there are ways to challenge such patents. But another interesting technique can be to NOT patent something. Instead, you publish the idea as broadly as possible. By putting "prior art" out there clearly you prevent anyone else patenting it. Although a patent is supposed to allow the temporary protection of an idea while the inventor benefits from it, in many cases large companies use patents to block competition from their rivals. By sticking an idea out in the public domain you prevent that happening. If you also have some private knowledge of how to use the idea you can still get a toe in the market and make money from it, before other people work out the necessary wrinkles. Chris Woolf From waresound at msn.com Fri Jun 16 03:35:17 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 08:35:17 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> <7f9a5832-01c7-7fe2-2eb3-5f71a3b364d4@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7513f043-670c-2a54-1970-6f63d161bb5d@gmail.com> Message-ID: Top of my ?Why has no-one invented??? list is a shower cabinet that has three inbuilt roller brushes like in a car wash. It would have adjustable speed etc., and a Dyson-style fast body dryer facility. Options would include either full height rollers or smaller ones that would start at the base and work their way up your body (with the ability to stop at any desired point on the way up!). You just walk into it, switch on and then walk out clean and dry! People laugh when I mention it, but consider the benefits: Easy for folk who have difficulty bending down to wash their lower regions. Environmentally good - no need for washing machine loads of towels, dryer units etc. Good body massage benefits, and potentially a very pleasant and satisfying experience! And there would of course, be a larger version to accommodate two people! Well? What does the team think? Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad > On 15 Jun 2023, at 20:47, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > ? >> On 15/06/2023 16:14, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: >> Hi all, >> >>> On 15/06/2023 14:50, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >>> search of patents shows that several people have thought of the same thing, or something very close. Inventing a machine or process that is radically different in the mainstream world is staggeringly difficult. >> >> Just preparing something about locomotive valve gears, and found that one railway's Chief Mechanical Engineer got a patent for a valve gear set-up which had actually been in use on another railway for at least a year! >> >> > Of course that shouldn't happen, and there are ways to challenge such patents. > > But another interesting technique can be to NOT patent something. Instead, you publish the idea as broadly as possible. By putting "prior art" out there clearly you prevent anyone else patenting it. > > Although a patent is supposed to allow the temporary protection of an idea while the inventor benefits from it, in many cases large companies use patents to block competition from their rivals. By sticking an idea out in the public domain you prevent that happening. If you also have some private knowledge of how to use the idea you can still get a toe in the market and make money from it, before other people work out the necessary wrinkles. > > Chris Woolf > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From alanaudio at me.com Fri Jun 16 03:43:14 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 09:43:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69C92598-6ADF-4CF4-98DF-80395E7F05B2@me.com> Having seen what happens in a car wash if an aerial isn?t removed, I?m not convinced that a similar rotating brush arrangement would be a good idea for a gentleman. Well not this one anyway :-) Alan > On 16 Jun 2023, at 09:35, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Top of my ?Why has no-one invented??? list is a shower cabinet that has three inbuilt roller brushes like in a car wash. It would have adjustable speed etc., and a Dyson-style fast body dryer facility. Options would include either full height rollers or smaller ones that would start at the base and work their way up your body (with the ability to stop at any desired point on the way up!). You just walk into it, switch on and then walk out clean and dry! People laugh when I mention it, but consider the benefits: > Easy for folk who have difficulty bending down to wash their lower regions. > Environmentally good - no need for washing machine loads of towels, dryer units etc. > Good body massage benefits, and potentially a very pleasant and satisfying experience! > And there would of course, be a larger version to accommodate two people! > Well? What does the team think? > Cheers, > Nick. > Nick Ware - sent from my iPad > >> On 15 Jun 2023, at 20:47, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ? >>>> On 15/06/2023 16:14, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>>> On 15/06/2023 14:50, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >>>> search of patents shows that several people have thought of the same thing, or something very close. Inventing a machine or process that is radically different in the mainstream world is staggeringly difficult. >>> >>> Just preparing something about locomotive valve gears, and found that one railway's Chief Mechanical Engineer got a patent for a valve gear set-up which had actually been in use on another railway for at least a year! >>> >>> >> Of course that shouldn't happen, and there are ways to challenge such patents. >> >> But another interesting technique can be to NOT patent something. Instead, you publish the idea as broadly as possible. By putting "prior art" out there clearly you prevent anyone else patenting it. >> >> Although a patent is supposed to allow the temporary protection of an idea while the inventor benefits from it, in many cases large companies use patents to block competition from their rivals. By sticking an idea out in the public domain you prevent that happening. If you also have some private knowledge of how to use the idea you can still get a toe in the market and make money from it, before other people work out the necessary wrinkles. >> >> Chris Woolf >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Fri Jun 16 06:58:27 2023 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 12:58:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> <7f9a5832-01c7-7fe2-2eb3-5f71a3b364d4@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7513f043-670c-2a54-1970-6f63d161bb5d@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 16/06/2023 09:35, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > Top of my ?Why has no-one invented??? list is a shower cabinet that has three inbuilt roller brushes like in a car wash. ... Three rollers - hmm. Me thinks that to accommodate the complete gender and shape range you might need more than three self-aligning roller brushes! You might manage with not too many if they were the long flail ribbon variety, but that would only suit those that were used to Catholic self-mortification. I prefer to keep my skin on:] There are, however, patents for various automatic bathing systems, most of which use something more akin to a human-sized dishwasher, with similar jet-washing and air-drying arrangements. In one case they even add a set of water-borne scouring balls driven by an impeller - more along the lines of a clothes washing machine. Simple air-drying showers are commonplace, to remove the need for towels. However they come with a pretty hefty electric bill, and there are various crevices in the human body - stop that! I'm thinking of between the toes;} - that still really require the use of an old-fashioned towel. So most of that idea /*is */already thought up, though whether anyone has produced fully working versions of a Ware Washer, I have my doobts! Chris Woolf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Fri Jun 16 07:29:58 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 12:29:58 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <69C92598-6ADF-4CF4-98DF-80395E7F05B2@me.com> References: <69C92598-6ADF-4CF4-98DF-80395E7F05B2@me.com> Message-ID: I did consider the possibility of contra-rotating rollers to allow for your concern, and also for under-boobs, saggy-boobs, etc. And of course, a generous level of AI to ensure best results. Probably best not to pursue these thoughts in case Jim D is listening.l - All of this, of course, inspired by that classic naughty movie: ?Barbarella?. N. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad > On 16 Jun 2023, at 09:44, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Having seen what happens in a car wash if an aerial isn?t removed, I?m not convinced that a similar rotating brush arrangement would be a good idea for a gentleman. > > Well not this one anyway :-) > > Alan > > >> On 16 Jun 2023, at 09:35, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?Top of my ?Why has no-one invented??? list is a shower cabinet that has three inbuilt roller brushes like in a car wash. It would have adjustable speed etc., and a Dyson-style fast body dryer facility. Options would include either full height rollers or smaller ones that would start at the base and work their way up your body (with the ability to stop at any desired point on the way up!). You just walk into it, switch on and then walk out clean and dry! People laugh when I mention it, but consider the benefits: >> Easy for folk who have difficulty bending down to wash their lower regions. >> Environmentally good - no need for washing machine loads of towels, dryer units etc. >> Good body massage benefits, and potentially a very pleasant and satisfying experience! >> And there would of course, be a larger version to accommodate two people! >> Well? What does the team think? >> Cheers, >> Nick. >> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad >> >>>> On 15 Jun 2023, at 20:47, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ? >>>>> On 15/06/2023 16:14, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>>> On 15/06/2023 14:50, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> search of patents shows that several people have thought of the same thing, or something very close. Inventing a machine or process that is radically different in the mainstream world is staggeringly difficult. >>>> >>>> Just preparing something about locomotive valve gears, and found that one railway's Chief Mechanical Engineer got a patent for a valve gear set-up which had actually been in use on another railway for at least a year! >>>> >>>> >>> Of course that shouldn't happen, and there are ways to challenge such patents. >>> >>> But another interesting technique can be to NOT patent something. Instead, you publish the idea as broadly as possible. By putting "prior art" out there clearly you prevent anyone else patenting it. >>> >>> Although a patent is supposed to allow the temporary protection of an idea while the inventor benefits from it, in many cases large companies use patents to block competition from their rivals. By sticking an idea out in the public domain you prevent that happening. If you also have some private knowledge of how to use the idea you can still get a toe in the market and make money from it, before other people work out the necessary wrinkles. >>> >>> Chris Woolf >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From barry-wilkinson at sky.com Fri Jun 16 07:38:29 2023 From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 13:38:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <206239A5-BBC7-4283-BDB2-2A37EC126B46@sky.com> It?s all a bit irrelevant, but pleasant to discuss, but of course the elephant in the shower is the lack of water! Sent from my iPad > On 16 Jun 2023, at 13:30, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > ?I did consider the possibility of contra-rotating rollers to allow for your concern, and also for under-boobs, saggy-boobs, etc. And of course, a generous level of AI to ensure best results. Probably best not to pursue these thoughts in case Jim D is listening.l > - All of this, of course, inspired by that classic naughty movie: ?Barbarella?. > N. > Nick Ware - sent from my iPad > >> On 16 Jun 2023, at 09:44, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?Having seen what happens in a car wash if an aerial isn?t removed, I?m not convinced that a similar rotating brush arrangement would be a good idea for a gentleman. >> >> Well not this one anyway :-) >> >> Alan >> >> >>>> On 16 Jun 2023, at 09:35, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?Top of my ?Why has no-one invented??? list is a shower cabinet that has three inbuilt roller brushes like in a car wash. It would have adjustable speed etc., and a Dyson-style fast body dryer facility. Options would include either full height rollers or smaller ones that would start at the base and work their way up your body (with the ability to stop at any desired point on the way up!). You just walk into it, switch on and then walk out clean and dry! People laugh when I mention it, but consider the benefits: >>> Easy for folk who have difficulty bending down to wash their lower regions. >>> Environmentally good - no need for washing machine loads of towels, dryer units etc. >>> Good body massage benefits, and potentially a very pleasant and satisfying experience! >>> And there would of course, be a larger version to accommodate two people! >>> Well? What does the team think? >>> Cheers, >>> Nick. >>> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On 15 Jun 2023, at 20:47, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> ? >>>>>> On 15/06/2023 16:14, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>>> On 15/06/2023 14:50, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> search of patents shows that several people have thought of the same thing, or something very close. Inventing a machine or process that is radically different in the mainstream world is staggeringly difficult. >>>>> >>>>> Just preparing something about locomotive valve gears, and found that one railway's Chief Mechanical Engineer got a patent for a valve gear set-up which had actually been in use on another railway for at least a year! >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Of course that shouldn't happen, and there are ways to challenge such patents. >>>> >>>> But another interesting technique can be to NOT patent something. Instead, you publish the idea as broadly as possible. By putting "prior art" out there clearly you prevent anyone else patenting it. >>>> >>>> Although a patent is supposed to allow the temporary protection of an idea while the inventor benefits from it, in many cases large companies use patents to block competition from their rivals. By sticking an idea out in the public domain you prevent that happening. If you also have some private knowledge of how to use the idea you can still get a toe in the market and make money from it, before other people work out the necessary wrinkles. >>>> >>>> Chris Woolf >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Fri Jun 16 08:12:14 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 14:12:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> <7f9a5832-01c7-7fe2-2eb3-5f71a3b364d4@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7513f043-670c-2a54-1970-6f63d161bb5d@gmail.com> Message-ID: Looking at the size of the average car wash to wash the average car, I'd be surprised if most had room for an auto human one in the average bathroom. I haven't used a auto car wash since one scratched the paint on mine rather badly. So wouldn't fancy clearing up the blood afterwards either. On 16/06/2023 12:58, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > On 16/06/2023 09:35, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >> Top of my ?Why has no-one invented??? list is a shower cabinet that has three inbuilt roller brushes like in a car wash. ... > > Three rollers - hmm. Me thinks that to accommodate the complete gender > and shape range you might need more than three self-aligning roller > brushes! You might manage with not too many if they were the long flail > ribbon variety, but that would only suit those that were used to > Catholic self-mortification. I prefer to keep my skin on:] > > There are, however, patents for various automatic bathing systems, most > of which use something more akin to a human-sized dishwasher, with > similar jet-washing and air-drying arrangements. In one case they even > add a set of water-borne scouring balls driven by an impeller - more > along the lines of a clothes washing machine. > > Simple air-drying showers are commonplace, to remove the need for > towels. However they come with a pretty hefty electric bill, and there > are various crevices in the human body - stop that! I'm thinking of > between the toes;} - that still really require the use of an > old-fashioned towel. > > So most of that idea /*is */already thought up, though whether anyone > has produced fully working versions of a Ware Washer, I have my doobts! > > > Chris Woolf > > > > > -- Dave Plowman London, SW From david.jasma at sky.com Fri Jun 16 08:13:58 2023 From: david.jasma at sky.com (Dave Buckley) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 14:13:58 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> <7f9a5832-01c7-7fe2-2eb3-5f71a3b364d4@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7513f043-670c-2a54-1970-6f63d161bb5d@gmail.com> Message-ID: <81a9e125-8c52-4bec-7617-1e66587c50cc@sky.com> I think the Victorians had the right idea - look at the shower at Wood Norton Hall! That sprays all round, but OK, it doesn't have brushes. Dave Buckley From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Fri Jun 16 09:30:33 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 15:30:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: <81a9e125-8c52-4bec-7617-1e66587c50cc@sky.com> References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> <7f9a5832-01c7-7fe2-2eb3-5f71a3b364d4@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7513f043-670c-2a54-1970-6f63d161bb5d@gmail.com> <81a9e125-8c52-4bec-7617-1e66587c50cc@sky.com> Message-ID: Dunno how you shower, but I tend to get the body wet, then wash with soap or gel, then rinse off. Not possible if being sprayed from all directions. Unless you turn it off and on. On 16/06/2023 14:13, Dave Buckley via Tech1 wrote: > I think the Victorians had the right idea - look at the shower at Wood > Norton Hall! That sprays all round, but OK, it doesn't have brushes. > > Dave Buckley > > > -- Dave Plowman London, SW From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Fri Jun 16 09:33:58 2023 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 15:33:58 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: <81a9e125-8c52-4bec-7617-1e66587c50cc@sky.com> References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com><5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com><7f9a5832-01c7-7fe2-2eb3-5f71a3b364d4@chriswoolf.co.uk><7513f043-670c-2a54-1970-6f63d161bb5d@gmail.com> <81a9e125-8c52-4bec-7617-1e66587c50cc@sky.com> Message-ID: But did any of us mere students ever get to use it? Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dave Buckley via Tech1 Sent: Friday, June 16, 2023 2:13 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower I think the Victorians had the right idea - look at the shower at Wood Norton Hall! That sprays all round, but OK, it doesn't have brushes. Dave Buckley -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: WN bathroom.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 163833 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david.jasma at sky.com Fri Jun 16 09:47:48 2023 From: david.jasma at sky.com (david.jasma) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 15:47:48 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <760156523.3531337.1686926880769@sky.com> In the early 80s, an A course just before mine, had used the bathroom as a location for part of their end of course production. If I remember correctly, a young lady (in a swim suit) was in the bath under a lot of foam!!Dave BuckleySent from my Galaxy -------- Original message --------From: Mike Jordan Date: 16/06/2023 15:34 (GMT+00:00) To: Dave Buckley , tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower But did any of us mere students ever get to use it?Mike-----Original Message----- From: Dave Buckley via Tech1 Sent: Friday, June 16, 2023 2:13 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower I think the Victorians had the right idea - look at the shower at Wood Norton Hall! That sprays all round, but OK, it doesn't have brushes.Dave Buckley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Fri Jun 16 10:24:35 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 16:24:35 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <206239A5-BBC7-4283-BDB2-2A37EC126B46@sky.com> References: <206239A5-BBC7-4283-BDB2-2A37EC126B46@sky.com> Message-ID: <42437527-80E7-445C-B91E-2DDC3942441C@me.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: favicon.ico Type: image/png Size: 4119 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Fri Jun 16 10:26:03 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 16:26:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <42437527-80E7-445C-B91E-2DDC3942441C@me.com> References: <42437527-80E7-445C-B91E-2DDC3942441C@me.com> Message-ID: <14BF6C4E-2481-4FAE-AA90-986671E2D35F@me.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry-wilkinson at sky.com Fri Jun 16 10:28:39 2023 From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 16:28:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <42437527-80E7-445C-B91E-2DDC3942441C@me.com> References: <42437527-80E7-445C-B91E-2DDC3942441C@me.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Fri Jun 16 10:35:41 2023 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 16:35:41 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: <14BF6C4E-2481-4FAE-AA90-986671E2D35F@me.com> References: <42437527-80E7-445C-B91E-2DDC3942441C@me.com> <14BF6C4E-2481-4FAE-AA90-986671E2D35F@me.com> Message-ID: <6296d1a0-c789-23b6-1e37-12633f1b4494@chriswoolf.co.uk> Many years ago I explained an invention on the IPS (ABS as it was) list. The concept was to have a helium cylinder at the bottom end of a boom pole. A tap allowed you to fill the blimp on the top with the gas, in order to lighten it, making life easier for the swinger. ?It occurred to me then, that there would be a low level leak from the blimp, and this too could be made use of. The talent being boomed would inhale some of the gas, and therefore speak slightly higher in tone. This in turn would allow their recording to be slowed slightly, while still maintaining a normal speech spectrum. With a control link to the camera it should be feasible to maintain variable speed, normal-sounding speech recording in real time.... For some reason nobody has taken the idea up so far....;} Chris Woolf On 16/06/2023 16:26, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > Sanyo - I could have sworn in typed Sanyo > > >> On 16 Jun 2023, at 16:24, Alan Taylor wrote: >> >> ? Sony demonstrated a human washing machine fifty years ago. >> >> Washing-Machine for Humans - Amazing News >> >> supiri.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I think most of us can think of a number of reasons why this didn?t >> go into mass production. >> >> There have been other attempts too over the years. >> >> Alan > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Jun 16 13:49:03 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 19:49:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: <81a9e125-8c52-4bec-7617-1e66587c50cc@sky.com> References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> <7f9a5832-01c7-7fe2-2eb3-5f71a3b364d4@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7513f043-670c-2a54-1970-6f63d161bb5d@gmail.com> <81a9e125-8c52-4bec-7617-1e66587c50cc@sky.com> Message-ID: Who would have thought that a measurment comment would spawn such an interesting discussion! Rather than an automatic human washing machine, I think I would prefer this system as depicted in "You Only Live Twice"! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLau1ANQO2I Cheers Pat H On 16/06/2023 14:13, Dave Buckley via Tech1 wrote: > I think the Victorians had the right idea - look at the shower at Wood > Norton Hall! That sprays all round, but OK, it doesn't have brushes. > > Dave Buckley > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com Sat Jun 17 04:22:56 2023 From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 10:22:56 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: <81a9e125-8c52-4bec-7617-1e66587c50cc@sky.com> References: <81a9e125-8c52-4bec-7617-1e66587c50cc@sky.com> Message-ID: <966FBD3F-2180-4C05-AF5A-B6EFF908B2C0@icloud.com> This is the contraption in our cottage in Sussex. Too big and cumbersome to remove but not super practical either! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1107971 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Graham Maunder 07831 515678 > On 16 Jun 2023, at 15:27, Dave Buckley via Tech1 wrote: > > ?I think the Victorians had the right idea - look at the shower at Wood Norton Hall! That sprays all round, but OK, it doesn't have brushes. > > Dave Buckley > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From nickrodger at mac.com Sat Jun 17 09:19:27 2023 From: nickrodger at mac.com (Nick Rodger) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 15:19:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: <78E1957A-0647-4965-8547-6825538CEDDD@mac.com> References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> <7f9a5832-01c7-7fe2-2eb3-5f71a3b364d4@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7513f043-670c-2a54-1970-6f63d161bb5d@gmail.com> <81a9e125-8c52-4bec-7617-1e66587c50cc@sky.com> <78E1957A-0647-4965-8547-6825538CEDDD@mac.com> Message-ID: <3BBA35BC-5BAC-46C1-ACC2-C57AF6A169B5@mac.com> Of course you turn the water off whilst you soap up, wash, and shampoo. It?s a total waste of water to have the shower on, and going straight down the drain. Same when you brush your teeth, please tell me no~one here keeps the water running whilst actually brushing. In my bathroom, in the winter, it takes two full buckets of water from the shower before it?s hot enough. It does not go straight down the drain. It?s used to flush the loo!! Nick Rodger Cameraman (Retired) 07971 007578 nickrodger at mac.com Don?t blame me!! I voted Remain ?? On 16 Jun 2023, at 15:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: Dunno how you shower, but I tend to get the body wet, then wash with soap or gel, then rinse off. Not possible if being sprayed from all directions. Unless you turn it off and on. On 16/06/2023 14:13, Dave Buckley via Tech1 wrote: > I think the Victorians had the right idea - look at the shower at Wood Norton Hall! That sprays all round, but OK, it doesn't have brushes. > Dave Buckley -- Dave Plowman London, SW -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From mibridge at mac.com Sat Jun 17 11:29:02 2023 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 17:29:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: <3BBA35BC-5BAC-46C1-ACC2-C57AF6A169B5@mac.com> References: <3BBA35BC-5BAC-46C1-ACC2-C57AF6A169B5@mac.com> Message-ID: <6F24EED8-2C23-4315-92E5-495A1B52D382@mac.com> Whatever happened to ?Save water - bath with a friend?? Probably still less efficient than the ?Navy shower? that Nick advocates (and yes, I do turn off the water whilst getting into a lather and whilst glossing up the pearly whites). Mike G > On 17 Jun 2023, at 15:20, Nick Rodger via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Of course you turn the water off whilst you soap up, wash, and shampoo. > > It?s a total waste of water to have the shower on, and going straight down the drain. > > Same when you brush your teeth, please tell me no~one here keeps the water running whilst actually brushing. > > In my bathroom, in the winter, it takes two full buckets of water from the shower before it?s hot enough. > > It does not go straight down the drain. > > It?s used to flush the loo!! > > Nick Rodger > Cameraman (Retired) > 07971 007578 > nickrodger at mac.com > > Don?t blame me!! > I voted Remain ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > On 16 Jun 2023, at 15:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > Dunno how you shower, but I tend to get the body wet, then wash with soap or gel, then rinse off. Not possible if being sprayed from all directions. Unless you turn it off and on. > >> On 16/06/2023 14:13, Dave Buckley via Tech1 wrote: >> I think the Victorians had the right idea - look at the shower at Wood Norton Hall! That sprays all round, but OK, it doesn't have brushes. >> Dave Buckley > > -- > Dave Plowman > London, SW > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From waresound at msn.com Sat Jun 17 12:55:58 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 17:55:58 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower Message-ID: ??With current water wastage concerns in mind, I?m working on a new shower option that might help to allay any such concerns. My new version is a Jack-and-Jill shower, opening both sides between your bedroom and the Au-pair?s. Not a new idea because a long time ago I did suggest such an arrangement at our last house, where a shared en-suite would have worked well, but I was overruled. Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Sat Jun 17 13:31:31 2023 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2023 19:31:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: <3BBA35BC-5BAC-46C1-ACC2-C57AF6A169B5@mac.com> References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> <7f9a5832-01c7-7fe2-2eb3-5f71a3b364d4@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7513f043-670c-2a54-1970-6f63d161bb5d@gmail.com> <81a9e125-8c52-4bec-7617-1e66587c50cc@sky.com> <78E1957A-0647-4965-8547-6825538CEDDD@mac.com> <3BBA35BC-5BAC-46C1-ACC2-C57AF6A169B5@mac.com> Message-ID: <2577d49b-78fb-ca83-e6d2-757e1ccf04ff@chriswoolf.co.uk> On 17/06/2023 15:19, Nick Rodger via Tech1 wrote: > ... > > It?s a total waste of water to have the shower on, and going straight down the drain. > > Same when you brush your teeth, please tell me no~one here keeps the water running whilst actually brushing. Trouble is, when you have your own borehole, and an aquifer that almost no one else uses, you get to be a bit profligate with the wet stuff. Dammit, I even use a hose a couple of times a day to water the veg garden. But then the water drains away into the same aquifer, just a little bit downhill, so it kinda isn't wasted. And the power to run the pump is mostly from the solar panels... Chris Woolf From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Sun Jun 18 09:28:51 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 15:28:51 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had a smart water meter fitted quite recently. Not by choice - but it is interesting to be able to see water usage by the day. And by experimenting found out my shower uses about 100 litres. And costs about 50p in gas at today's prices. On 17/06/2023 18:55, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > ??With current water wastage concerns in mind, I?m working on a new > shower option that might help to allay any such concerns. > My new version is a Jack-and-Jill shower, opening both sides between > your bedroom and the Au-pair?s. Not a new idea because a long time ago I > did suggest such an arrangement at our last house, where a shared > en-suite would have worked well, but I was overruled. > Cheers, > Nick. > Nick Ware - sent from my iPad >> > -- Dave Plowman London, SW From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Sun Jun 18 09:57:40 2023 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 15:57:40 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric- meters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <35DB7A9DCCA5411FB872D5190584B98A@Gigabyte> We had these things installed all around here in Ealing. Not compulsory (yet) to be used to set bill. I don't think the system is totally working yet as it supposed to be possible to read the meters remotely by wireless and they say the system will cover ALL of London. At the moment a man comes around and either reads it locally to his phone or if necessary has to open the box and take a picture of the dials. Cleverly, the meter and transmitter is powered by battery charged from a generator in the flow pipe! Doing it by radio is surprising as the aerials - although on top of the unit - are below ground. One of the excuses for installing them (apart from presumably being able to increase fees although MIGHT save some supply) is to be able to keep watch on consumption in a street and take measurements at night when use is low and thus spot leaks. We shall see. Incidentally, I wonder if they will use the new 5G masts to gather data? We have been told that new masts are imperative to cope with the increased use of 5G (5th generation apparently) and councils don't have the option to refuse new mast sites like this one right near houses and towering over the locality. An alternative site nearby was counted out as it was too near the picadilly Line and might break their signalling! I must say it was very impressive on the ground waiting to be erected. Now to have all the kit taken up top. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2023 3:28 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower I had a smart water meter fitted quite recently. Not by choice - but it is interesting to be able to see water usage by the day. And by experimenting found out my shower uses about 100 litres. And costs about 50p in gas at today's prices. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: London Playing Fields mast partly equipped.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 422658 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: London Playing Fields mast on ground_4_s.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 546444 bytes Desc: not available URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Sun Jun 18 10:01:58 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 16:01:58 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric- meters In-Reply-To: <35DB7A9DCCA5411FB872D5190584B98A@Gigabyte> References: <35DB7A9DCCA5411FB872D5190584B98A@Gigabyte> Message-ID: Mine worked pretty well right away. You need an online account with Thames Water to see daily etc use. Being single, it made sense to change to metered from fixed. Saved quite a bit - should have done it ages ago. On 18/06/2023 15:57, Mike Jordan wrote: > We had these things installed all around here in Ealing. Not compulsory > (yet) to be used to set bill. > I don't think the system is totally working yet as it supposed to be > possible to read the meters remotely by wireless and they say the system > will cover ALL of London. > At the moment a man comes around and either reads it locally to his > phone or if necessary has to open the box and take a picture of the dials. > Cleverly, the meter? and transmitter is powered by battery charged from > a generator in the flow pipe! > Doing it by radio is surprising as the aerials - although on top of the > unit - are below ground. > One of the excuses for installing them (apart from presumably being able > to increase fees although MIGHT save some supply) is to be able to keep > watch on consumption in a street and take measurements at night when use > is low and thus spot leaks. > We shall see. > > Incidentally, I wonder if they will use the new 5G masts to gather data? > We have been told that new masts are imperative to cope with the > increased use of 5G (5th generation apparently) and councils don't have > the option to refuse new mast sites like this one right near houses and > towering over the locality. An alternative site nearby was counted out > as it was too near the picadilly Line and might break their signalling! > I must say it was very impressive on the ground waiting to be erected. > Now to have all the kit taken up top. > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2023 3:28 PM > To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower > > I had a smart water meter fitted quite recently. Not by choice - but it > is interesting to be able to see water usage by the day. And by > experimenting found out my shower uses about 100 litres. And costs about > 50p in gas at today's prices. -- Dave Plowman London, SW From techtone at protonmail.com Sun Jun 18 11:36:25 2023 From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 16:36:25 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Help with mac mini update Message-ID: Thank you to all who replied to my request, and the advice certainly helped a great deal, what a wealth of knowledge on this forum! Getting the new router set-up was a doddle with all your help and advice, and Plusnet talked me through it too, they're very good. I'm now slowly transferring material on back-up discs to the new Mac, which is a huge task considering I don't want everything transferred from back-up if it's no longer relevant to present circumstances (but leave it on the back-ups just in case). I certainly notice that things go a lot faster on this new set-up, and I can indulge in using the other Mac purely for financial transactions, as has been suggested. TeaTeaFN - Tony Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Sun Jun 18 11:40:40 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 17:40:40 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric In-Reply-To: References: <5BCCF226-BA1C-4EE2-B2E4-B34F76B21D79@me.com> <5ae2cdcb-c8c0-030c-64c7-7fd1826ef395@gmail.com> <7f9a5832-01c7-7fe2-2eb3-5f71a3b364d4@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7513f043-670c-2a54-1970-6f63d161bb5d@gmail.com> Message-ID: <429056a9-72f5-2b48-a48f-993f3b22b1cc@amps.net> Back to cars..... Reference my earlier posting that there is an uncomfortable mix of metric and imperial currently in use, I imagined a situation were metric might be universally adopted countrywide. Vehicle fuel consumption is described in MPG, but filling stations dispense in LITRES. Now speed limits throughout most of the world are set in kilometres per hour (km/h). *The UK remains the only country in Europe, and the Commonwealth, that still defines speed limits in miles per hour (mph)* but suppose everything here is changed to KPH. 30 would become 48 on the signs, but there would be some drivers who might think in MPH, still, and would put pedal to metal. The extra revenue in speeding fines could benefit the Government, though! Best PatH On 16/06/2023 14:12, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > Looking at the size of the average car wash to wash the average car, > I'd be surprised if most had room for an auto human one in the average > bathroom. I haven't used a auto car wash since one scratched the paint > on mine rather badly. So wouldn't fancy clearing up the blood > afterwards either. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Sun Jun 18 11:48:57 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 17:48:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: <966FBD3F-2180-4C05-AF5A-B6EFF908B2C0@icloud.com> References: <81a9e125-8c52-4bec-7617-1e66587c50cc@sky.com> <966FBD3F-2180-4C05-AF5A-B6EFF908B2C0@icloud.com> Message-ID: Wow! Anyone brave enough to step inside and turn on a tap, might well be 'beamed up' to the Starship Enterprise! (Do view 'Galaxy Quest' A good giggle!) Pat H On 17/06/2023 10:22, Graham Maunder via Tech1 wrote: > This is the contraption in our cottage in Sussex. Too big and cumbersome to remove but not super practical either! > Graham Maunder -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Sun Jun 18 17:49:43 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 23:49:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric- meters In-Reply-To: <35DB7A9DCCA5411FB872D5190584B98A@Gigabyte> References: <35DB7A9DCCA5411FB872D5190584B98A@Gigabyte> Message-ID: <6cd42cd8-e9ea-a418-cc1b-bb6cca49d680@gmail.com> Mine worked pretty well right away. You need an online account with Thames Water to see daily etc use. Being single, it made sense to change to metered from fixed. Saved quite a bit - should have done it ages ago. On 18/06/2023 15:57, Mike Jordan wrote: > We had these things installed all around here in Ealing. Not compulsory > (yet) to be used to set bill. > I don't think the system is totally working yet as it supposed to be > possible to read the meters remotely by wireless and they say the system > will cover ALL of London. > At the moment a man comes around and either reads it locally to his > phone or if necessary has to open the box and take a picture of the dials. > Cleverly, the meter? and transmitter is powered by battery charged from > a generator in the flow pipe! > Doing it by radio is surprising as the aerials - although on top of the > unit - are below ground. > One of the excuses for installing them (apart from presumably being able > to increase fees although MIGHT save some supply) is to be able to keep > watch on consumption in a street and take measurements at night when use > is low and thus spot leaks. > We shall see. > > Incidentally, I wonder if they will use the new 5G masts to gather data? > We have been told that new masts are imperative to cope with the > increased use of 5G (5th generation apparently) and councils don't have > the option to refuse new mast sites like this one right near houses and > towering over the locality. An alternative site nearby was counted out > as it was too near the picadilly Line and might break their signalling! > I must say it was very impressive on the ground waiting to be erected. > Now to have all the kit taken up top. > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2023 3:28 PM > To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower > > I had a smart water meter fitted quite recently. Not by choice - but it > is interesting to be able to see water usage by the day. And by > experimenting found out my shower uses about 100 litres. And costs about > 50p in gas at today's prices. -- Dave Plowman London, SW From pat.heigham at amps.net Mon Jun 19 04:30:59 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 10:30:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3ba8c75c-b224-19c8-b003-404cdbf0fd64@amps.net> Where I live, is a development of three smallish blocks of flats. Our fresh supply is from East Surrey Water and the foul waste is handled by Thames Water. We were all asked if we wanted a water meter - not 'smart' in those days - so I had a go at estimating daily usage - i.e. bathroom basin, some many loo flushes, kitchen washing up and a decent wallow level in the bath! No showers or washing machines, though. Very obviously for a single occupancy, very much of a saving. The meter reader has some form of a detector which is merely placed onto the outside trap. We enjoy a discount from Thames Water as the surface run-off from gutters does not go into the main drainage, but to soakaways - I proved this as the original architect's plans were available. Cheers Pat H On 18/06/2023 15:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > I had a smart water meter fitted quite recently. Not by choice - but > it is interesting to be able to see water usage by the day. And by > experimenting found out my shower uses about 100 litres. And costs > about 50p in gas at today's prices. From peter.neill at icloud.com Mon Jun 19 04:51:15 2023 From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 10:51:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: <3ba8c75c-b224-19c8-b003-404cdbf0fd64@amps.net> References: <3ba8c75c-b224-19c8-b003-404cdbf0fd64@amps.net> Message-ID: <9EFDF09A-B539-4A34-8C4D-33F2B22C8531@icloud.com> We have a double discount on drainage as we also have surface water drainage going to soakaways but also the drainage charge is calculated on the assumption that all the water which comes out of the tap goes down the drain. We were able to prove that a significant proportion goes to watering the garden. Of course, we?ve reduced this in times of water shortages but the reduction remains the same. Peter Neill. Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. > On 19 Jun 2023, at 10:31, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Where I live, is a development of three smallish blocks of flats. Our fresh supply is from East Surrey Water and the foul waste is handled by Thames Water. > > We were all asked if we wanted a water meter - not 'smart' in those days - so I had a go at estimating daily usage - i.e. bathroom basin, some many loo flushes, kitchen washing up and a decent wallow level in the bath! > No showers or washing machines, though. Very obviously for a single occupancy, very much of a saving. > > The meter reader has some form of a detector which is merely placed onto the outside trap. > > We enjoy a discount from Thames Water as the surface run-off from gutters does not go into the main drainage, but to soakaways - I proved this as the original architect's plans were available. > > Cheers > Pat H > >> On 18/06/2023 15:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> I had a smart water meter fitted quite recently. Not by choice - but it is interesting to be able to see water usage by the day. And by experimenting found out my shower uses about 100 litres. And costs about 50p in gas at today's prices. > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From pat.heigham at amps.net Mon Jun 19 05:08:45 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 11:08:45 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: <9EFDF09A-B539-4A34-8C4D-33F2B22C8531@icloud.com> References: <3ba8c75c-b224-19c8-b003-404cdbf0fd64@amps.net> <9EFDF09A-B539-4A34-8C4D-33F2B22C8531@icloud.com> Message-ID: <768be0d7-2d40-6e33-da22-2a5dc60d081a@amps.net> We have a single standpipe garden tap that residents can use for car washing, or by the bin cleaning firm for rinsing our wheelie bins - there are 32(!). Most important to keep the food waste ones nice and clean, or we get maggots! Perhaps we should gather them up for a fishermans' bait business? The garden tap has it's own meter. It's supposed to have a non-return valve, but people keep nicking the Hozelok one, I got fed up with replacing it at ?25 a time. I guess we could have the tap changed for one with an integral valve. Cheers Pat H On 19/06/2023 10:51, Peter Neill wrote: > We have a double discount on drainage as we also have surface water drainage going to soakaways but also the drainage charge is calculated on the assumption that all the water which comes out of the tap goes down the drain. We were able to prove that a significant proportion goes to watering the garden. Of course, we?ve reduced this in times of water shortages but the reduction remains the same. > > Peter Neill. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Mon Jun 19 05:32:25 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 11:32:25 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: <9EFDF09A-B539-4A34-8C4D-33F2B22C8531@icloud.com> References: <9EFDF09A-B539-4A34-8C4D-33F2B22C8531@icloud.com> Message-ID: <0B4AF820-3AD0-4972-B49F-06CE7215A3E9@me.com> We got a letter from Thames water saying that some nearby houses qualified for a rebate as their gutters go to soakaways rather than the main drains. We were invited to fill in a form to apply for the rebate and were warned that evidence or a site visit might be required to support the claim. A few months before, we had a blocked drain and a guy with a cctv drain unblocker was called in. He soon fixed the blockage and I asked him if he could see where the junctions in the underground pipes were. The display showed how many metres the camera had travelled and it only took moments to work out where each pipe ran and draw a dimensioned plan to put in my house file. It never occurred to me that I could claim a drainage rebate, but after receiving the letter, I filled in the form and had my plans ready in case they needed evidence. The rebate was agreed immediately and I was given a refund for several years of overcharging. I asked my neighbour if she got sent a similar letter. Her house is comparable to mine, built by the same builder at the same time. My drains join up with hers before going on towards the road and the bigger pipes. I would assume that the surface water drainage is similar for her house. She hadn?t received a letter but tried to claim using their form. They spun out her claim for many months, making her jump through all sorts of hoops and then moving the goalposts. I don?t know if she ever got the rebate. Alan > On 19 Jun 2023, at 10:52, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote: > > ?We have a double discount on drainage as we also have surface water drainage going to soakaways but also the drainage charge is calculated on the assumption that all the water which comes out of the tap goes down the drain. We were able to prove that a significant proportion goes to watering the garden. Of course, we?ve reduced this in times of water shortages but the reduction remains the same. > > Peter Neill. > > Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. From david.jasma at sky.com Mon Jun 19 06:04:14 2023 From: david.jasma at sky.com (Dave Buckley) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 12:04:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: <0B4AF820-3AD0-4972-B49F-06CE7215A3E9@me.com> References: <9EFDF09A-B539-4A34-8C4D-33F2B22C8531@icloud.com> <0B4AF820-3AD0-4972-B49F-06CE7215A3E9@me.com> Message-ID: <0f367e2a-8c77-540b-e720-f6cddf6c7793@sky.com> Until 2001, I owned a holiday chalet near Swansea, which I rented out for a maximum of eight months of the year. As there was restricted occupancy, the rates/council tax or whatever it was called at the time, was charged at two thirds of the full rate as was the water charge. The water rates without a meter were about ?212 a year, whether or not the chalet was occupied. I had a water meter installed and the cost dropped by over a half in the first year. Also as the chalet had a sloped flat roof, any run off from rain went straight onto the ground at the rear of the building. I applied for a reduction in waste water charges, including a photo of the building, and got it, although the reduction wasn't as great as having a water meter fitted! Dave Buckley From alanaudio at me.com Mon Jun 19 06:44:05 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 12:44:05 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: <768be0d7-2d40-6e33-da22-2a5dc60d081a@amps.net> References: <768be0d7-2d40-6e33-da22-2a5dc60d081a@amps.net> Message-ID: <3504FF23-2F8D-4CCA-B85B-F7D7024E6D05@me.com> You can get a non return valve which fits in the feed pipe. That?s how our outside taps are fed. Cheaper to have one valve in the feed than to have a valve in each tap. Alan > On 19 Jun 2023, at 12:34, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > We have a single standpipe garden tap that residents can use for car washing, or by the bin cleaning firm for rinsing our wheelie bins - there are 32(!). Most important to keep the food waste ones nice and clean, or we get maggots! > Perhaps we should gather them up for a fishermans' bait business? > > The garden tap has it's own meter. > It's supposed to have a non-return valve, but people keep nicking the Hozelok one, I got fed up with replacing it at ?25 a time. I guess we could have the tap changed for one with an integral valve. > > Cheers > > Pat H > >> On 19/06/2023 10:51, Peter Neill wrote: >> We have a double discount on drainage as we also have surface water drainage going to soakaways but also the drainage charge is calculated on the assumption that all the water which comes out of the tap goes down the drain. We were able to prove that a significant proportion goes to watering the garden. Of course, we?ve reduced this in times of water shortages but the reduction remains the same. >> >> Peter Neill. > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Mon Jun 19 06:58:51 2023 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 12:58:51 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] inventions -was Imperial v. Metric - shower In-Reply-To: <0f367e2a-8c77-540b-e720-f6cddf6c7793@sky.com> References: <9EFDF09A-B539-4A34-8C4D-33F2B22C8531@icloud.com> <0B4AF820-3AD0-4972-B49F-06CE7215A3E9@me.com> <0f367e2a-8c77-540b-e720-f6cddf6c7793@sky.com> Message-ID: <86f2d4d8-c0b2-a935-7a83-b3f5fb3d2015@chriswoolf.co.uk> Drainage. It's an interesting thought that all houses that are built with private sewage systems invariably split grey water run-off from black water, to avoid overloading the treatment system. What a pity that hasn't been the default situation for the last century or so - we wouldn't have the current national problem with polluted rivers and seas. Chris Woolf From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com Thu Jun 22 05:50:57 2023 From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2023 11:50:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?q?Ken_Major=E2=80=99_funeral?= Message-ID: <435216C1-258F-4BC1-9CED-D57940A2D3F9@icloud.com> I haven?t see anything to the contrary, but can I just check that Ken?s funeral is still at noon tomorrow at Mortlake? Thanks Graham Maunder 07831 515678 From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Thu Jun 22 05:52:48 2023 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (David John Mundy) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2023 11:52:48 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC News Message-ID: <0c6f7234-f0dd-cc91-47f8-1540751656bb@btinternet.com> Has anyone else noticed the dumbing down? Instead of BBC TV News from 0900-1100 we have cameras in a Radio 5 studio and in the evening no newspaper review of tomorrows papers but 'Hard Talk' so I am left with Sky News in the morning and Sky Paper Review in the evening which is not what I want to see! Last night, News Night ran into the normal 2300 news slot! Cheers, not, Dave From graeme.wall at icloud.com Thu Jun 22 06:06:35 2023 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2023 12:06:35 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC News In-Reply-To: <0c6f7234-f0dd-cc91-47f8-1540751656bb@btinternet.com> References: <0c6f7234-f0dd-cc91-47f8-1540751656bb@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <8F9C8625-00D7-4C77-B6B5-C23C1E8F473E@icloud.com> All part of the on-going Americanisation of British TV. > On 22 Jun 2023, at 11:52, David John Mundy via Tech1 wrote: > > Has anyone else noticed the dumbing down? Instead of BBC TV News from 0900-1100 we have cameras in a Radio 5 studio and in the evening no newspaper review of tomorrows papers but 'Hard Talk' so I am left with Sky News in the morning and Sky Paper Review in the evening which is not what I want to see! Last night, News Night ran into the normal 2300 news slot! Cheers, not, Dave > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ? Graeme Wall From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com Thu Jun 22 06:13:38 2023 From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2023 12:13:38 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC News In-Reply-To: <0c6f7234-f0dd-cc91-47f8-1540751656bb@btinternet.com> References: <0c6f7234-f0dd-cc91-47f8-1540751656bb@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Gloria is a great BBC News Channel viewer too & agrees with your complaint. She now records the Sky paper review since the BBC paper review was chopped. BBC News must be shedding viewers fast! John Nottage On 22/06/2023 11:52, David John Mundy via Tech1 wrote: > Has anyone else noticed the dumbing down? Instead of BBC TV News from > 0900-1100 we have cameras in a Radio 5 studio and in the evening no > newspaper review of tomorrows papers but 'Hard? Talk' so I am left with > Sky News in the morning and Sky Paper Review in the evening which is not > what I want to see! Last night, News Night ran into the normal 2300 news > slot! Cheers, not, Dave > From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Thu Jun 22 06:44:59 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2023 12:44:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC News In-Reply-To: <0c6f7234-f0dd-cc91-47f8-1540751656bb@btinternet.com> References: <0c6f7234-f0dd-cc91-47f8-1540751656bb@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <7c6c4160-f040-c8ea-1c05-84d86d73e4d7@gmail.com> Rolling news on TV never seems to have caught on in this country - unlike say Fox News etc in the US. And now there are even more trying for a slice of that tiny cake. So I'm not surprised the cash strapped BBC cutting costs in that area. On 22/06/2023 11:52, David John Mundy via Tech1 wrote: > Has anyone else noticed the dumbing down? Instead of BBC TV News from > 0900-1100 we have cameras in a Radio 5 studio and in the evening no > newspaper review of tomorrows papers but 'Hard? Talk' so I am left with > Sky News in the morning and Sky Paper Review in the evening which is not > what I want to see! Last night, News Night ran into the normal 2300 news > slot! Cheers, not, Dave > -- Dave Plowman London, SW From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Thu Jun 22 07:47:51 2023 From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2023 13:47:51 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC News In-Reply-To: <8F9C8625-00D7-4C77-B6B5-C23C1E8F473E@icloud.com> References: <0c6f7234-f0dd-cc91-47f8-1540751656bb@btinternet.com> <8F9C8625-00D7-4C77-B6B5-C23C1E8F473E@icloud.com> Message-ID: <005001d9a507$c18037e0$4480a7a0$@pgtmedia.co.uk> Unfortunately with various governments having frozen the licence fee (And inflation being high + 'talent ' inflation being even higher ) plus the BBC having being made to pay for the pensioners (That do still get free licences) Plus the BBC having to pay for Word Service (Rather than the Forign Office) the bank is almost empty. The BBC have sold off most of the assets and spent that cash. Its not a surprise that its now showing on screen (Maybe more surprising it has not been more obvious earlier!) Paul Paul Thackray PGT Media Consulting Ltd. 07802 243979 Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746 IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/ -----Original Message----- From: Tech1 On Behalf Of Graeme Wall via Tech1 Sent: 22 June 2023 12:07 To: David John Mundy Cc: Tech ops Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC News All part of the on-going Americanisation of British TV. > On 22 Jun 2023, at 11:52, David John Mundy via Tech1 wrote: > > Has anyone else noticed the dumbing down? Instead of BBC TV News from 0900-1100 we have cameras in a Radio 5 studio and in the evening no newspaper review of tomorrows papers but 'Hard Talk' so I am left with Sky News in the morning and Sky Paper Review in the evening which is not what I want to see! Last night, News Night ran into the normal 2300 news slot! Cheers, not, Dave > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ? Graeme Wall -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Thu Jun 22 08:40:30 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2023 14:40:30 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC News In-Reply-To: <0c6f7234-f0dd-cc91-47f8-1540751656bb@btinternet.com> References: <0c6f7234-f0dd-cc91-47f8-1540751656bb@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <9dc2678c-9b5a-298a-cb32-b3cbc1e46c1c@gmail.com> Rolling news on TV never seems to have caught on in this country - unlike say Fox News etc in the US. And now there are even more trying for a slice of that tiny cake. So I'm not surprised the cash strapped BBC cutting costs in that area. On 22/06/2023 11:52, David John Mundy via Tech1 wrote: > Has anyone else noticed the dumbing down? Instead of BBC TV News from > 0900-1100 we have cameras in a Radio 5 studio and in the evening no > newspaper review of tomorrows papers but 'Hard? Talk' so I am left with > Sky News in the morning and Sky Paper Review in the evening which is not > what I want to see! Last night, News Night ran into the normal 2300 news > slot! Cheers, not, Dave > -- Dave Plowman London, SW From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com Thu Jun 22 09:48:28 2023 From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2023 15:48:28 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Tony Milton Message-ID: <0643E507-37DF-4C63-BCC7-89635CB67A8D@btinternet.com> Hi All, Sad news, Tony Milton passed away recently. Excellent SA1, good boom op, and never a cross word even though his crew for some time was me, Laurie Taylor, and Chris Maurice! Lots of fun! His funeral will be on Tuesday July 4th. at 11:00 in Breakspear Crematorium, Breakspear Rd, Ruislip, Middlesex HA4 7SJ Barry. Tony on the boom in the Golders Green Hippodrome 1969. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tony Milton 1969.JPG Type: image/jpg Size: 999042 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Thu Jun 22 10:10:15 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2023 16:10:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Tony Milton In-Reply-To: <0643E507-37DF-4C63-BCC7-89635CB67A8D@btinternet.com> References: <0643E507-37DF-4C63-BCC7-89635CB67A8D@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <986b8a7a-f1d8-768a-0f32-ca07fa95ad8f@gmail.com> So very sad -always enjoyed working with him. On 22/06/2023 15:48, Barry Bonner via Tech1 wrote: > Hi All, > Sad news, Tony Milton passed away recently. ?Excellent SA1, good boom > op, and never a cross word even though his crew for some time was me, > Laurie Taylor, and Chris Maurice! Lots of fun! > > His funeral will be on Tuesday July 4th. at 11:00 in Breakspear > Crematorium, Breakspear Rd, Ruislip, Middlesex HA4 7SJ > > Barry. > > > Tony on the boom in the Golders Green Hippodrome 1969. > > > -- Dave Plowman London, SW From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com Thu Jun 22 10:27:17 2023 From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2023 16:27:17 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Tony Milton Message-ID: <8C5E372B-4847-4800-84E5-3274E516F735@btinternet.com> Hi All, Sad news, Tony Milton passed away recently. Excellent SA1, good boom op, and never a cross word even though his crew for some time was me, Laurie Taylor, and Chris Maurice! Lots of fun! His funeral will be on Tuesday July 4th. at 11:00 in Breakspear Crematorium, Breakspear Rd, Ruislip, Middlesex HA4 7SJ Barry. P.S. (I sent this earlier with a picture but it bounced, apologies if you?ve received it twice) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Thu Jun 22 10:32:06 2023 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2023 16:32:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [Announce] Tony Milton In-Reply-To: <0643E507-37DF-4C63-BCC7-89635CB67A8D@btinternet.com> References: <0643E507-37DF-4C63-BCC7-89635CB67A8D@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <1894C16C30EC4AA6996AF40A917559D8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Like you Barry I spent time on Tony?s crew and liked him enormously. One of my memories was of robust banter between him and Gordon Mackie (in the latter?s SS days). It culminated with Gordon weighing in with ?Milton, you crotty fellow ? are you blind as well as deaf?? If I remember correctly Tony was one of a number who had migrated to ITV in its early phase but came back to the fold. Can anyone confirm that as I no longer trust anything that comes out of my memory box. We don?t seem to find much space between our old colleagues passing on one by one and every loss is as sad as the others. Don?t know anything of Tony?s family but I hope they get to be aware of what a nice chap he was and how he knew his job inside out to the benefit of both productions and those of us who worked with him. Dave Newbitt. From: Barry Bonner via Announce Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2023 3:48 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Cc: TechOps Announce Subject: [Announce] Tony Milton Hi All, Sad news, Tony Milton passed away recently. Excellent SA1, good boom op, and never a cross word even though his crew for some time was me, Laurie Taylor, and Chris Maurice! Lots of fun! His funeral will be on Tuesday July 4th. at 11:00 in Breakspear Crematorium, Breakspear Rd, Ruislip, Middlesex HA4 7SJ Barry. Tony on the boom in the Golders Green Hippodrome 1969. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi All, Sad news, Tony Milton passed away recently. Excellent SA1, good boom op, and never a cross word even though his crew for some time was me, Laurie Taylor, and Chris Maurice! Lots of fun! His funeral will be on Tuesday July 4th. at 11:00 in Breakspear Crematorium, Breakspear Rd, Ruislip, Middlesex HA4 7SJ Barry. Tony on the boom in the Golders Green Hippodrome 1969. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Announce mailing list Announce at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Thu Jun 22 13:58:39 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2023 18:58:39 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] [Announce] Tony Milton In-Reply-To: <0643E507-37DF-4C63-BCC7-89635CB67A8D@btinternet.com> References: <0643E507-37DF-4C63-BCC7-89635CB67A8D@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Sorry to hear this, even though it was such a long time ago that I enjoyed his company. Fab piccy, by the way. Why is there never a camera pointing the right way when there?s such a stunning boom shadow to be had? RIP, Tony. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad On 22 Jun 2023, at 18:21, Barry Bonner via Announce wrote: ? Hi All, Sad news, Tony Milton passed away recently. Excellent SA1, good boom op, and never a cross word even though his crew for some time was me, Laurie Taylor, and Chris Maurice! Lots of fun! His funeral will be on Tuesday July 4th. at 11:00 in Breakspear Crematorium, Breakspear Rd, Ruislip, Middlesex HA4 7SJ Barry. Tony on the boom in the Golders Green Hippodrome 1969. [Tony Milton 1969.JPG] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tony Milton 1969.JPG Type: image/jpg Size: 999042 bytes Desc: Tony Milton 1969.JPG URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tony Milton 1969.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 481946 bytes Desc: Tony Milton 1969.JPG URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Jun 23 02:34:16 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2023 08:34:16 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Tony Milton In-Reply-To: <8C5E372B-4847-4800-84E5-3274E516F735@btinternet.com> References: <8C5E372B-4847-4800-84E5-3274E516F735@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Sad indeed, I remember Tony as a nice chap to have a beer with in the TVC club. Pat H On 22/06/2023 16:27, Barry Bonner via Tech1 wrote: > Hi All, > Sad news, Tony Milton passed away recently. > > Excellent SA1, good boom op, and never a cross word even though his > crew for some time was me, Laurie Taylor, and Chris Maurice! Lots of fun! > > His funeral will be on Tuesday July 4th. at 11:00 in Breakspear > Crematorium, Breakspear Rd, Ruislip, Middlesex HA4 7SJ > > Barry. > > P.S. (I sent this earlier with a picture but it bounced, apologies if > you?ve received it twice) > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonynuttall at me.com Fri Jun 23 10:55:15 2023 From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2023 15:55:15 -0000 Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?q?Super_Book_from_POST_SCRIPT_Books_=3A-___Pictu?= =?utf-8?q?res_of_London_1860_to_1920?= Message-ID: Just bought my copy from Post Script ?50-00 book for ?25-00. Over 800pics of London 1860 ?to 1920. All the pics have been restored and are a greatvisual archive of London life. Great reference ?book for a ?Set Designer, Costume, Graphics, CGI rendering etc etchttps://www.psbooks.co.uk/london-the-great-transformationTony Nuttall -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot 2023-06-23 at 16.35.44.png Type: image/png Size: 532306 bytes Desc: not available URL: From philiptyler at me.com Sun Jun 25 03:16:01 2023 From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 09:16:01 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Guns and Roses Glastonbury Message-ID: <32F7DA0D-3565-490D-96B5-3E8F42A96828@me.com> I have to say the sound for Guns and Roses was particularly poor. Axl Rose?s vocals were almost non existent at times, I think they must still be looking for the fader for the piano in November Rain. If they even rigged a microphone for it? As for the Bass he might as well not have turned up! I gave up watching as the sound was so bad! Totally unlike when Metallica headlined at Glastonbury where the sound was brilliant! Philip and Bee https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hughsnape at talktalk.net Sun Jun 25 04:22:55 2023 From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 10:22:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Guns and Roses Glastonbury In-Reply-To: <32F7DA0D-3565-490D-96B5-3E8F42A96828@me.com> References: <32F7DA0D-3565-490D-96B5-3E8F42A96828@me.com> Message-ID: <658E86C3-9A80-4AA4-BB99-90C43A0A3795@talktalk.net> I?m generally reluctant to criticise technical aspects of TV productions because I know from years of experience that many factors, often untoward, may cause difficulties which can seriously diminish the end quality of the product, but of which the audience remains unaware. Having said that I?ve been disappointed with several of the Glastonbury sound balances this year. Many of the vocals have sounded ?buried? and a couple of times I?ve wondered whether what I was hearing was just PA spill rather than the feed from the singer?s mic. itself. The relative levels between live links, performances and other pre-records has also been odd with the links sometimes loudest and the inserts very quiet, as if the overall programme wasn?t being monitored effectively. Also, although I?m not a camera person, I?ve noticed many crash zooms and whip pans during the performances suggesting cameras being cut to ?unexpectedly.? I watched a lot of the 2022 festival and overall it was rather better, the sound on Metronomy?s set, for example, was excellent. I wonder whether anything?s changed this time, a further reflection of the BBC making savings perhaps? Hugh Snape > On 25 Jun 2023, at 09:16, Philip Tyler via Tech1 wrote: > > I have to say the sound for Guns and Roses was particularly poor. > Axl Rose?s vocals were almost non existent at times, I think they must still be looking for the fader for the piano in November Rain. If they even rigged a microphone for it? As for the Bass he might as well not have turned up! I gave up watching as the sound was so bad! > > Totally unlike when Metallica headlined at Glastonbury where the sound was brilliant! > > Philip and Bee > > https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/ -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rndgilbey at yahoo.co.uk Sun Jun 25 05:12:33 2023 From: rndgilbey at yahoo.co.uk (Nick Gilbey) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 11:12:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Guns and Roses Glastonbury In-Reply-To: <658E86C3-9A80-4AA4-BB99-90C43A0A3795@talktalk.net> References: <32F7DA0D-3565-490D-96B5-3E8F42A96828@me.com> <658E86C3-9A80-4AA4-BB99-90C43A0A3795@talktalk.net> Message-ID: I think there must have been some significant technical changes since OB facilities, Arena, went into administration. I noticed from Colin Patterson?s piece - walking around backstage - that the OBs used now come from Cloudbass and there were a couple of smart looking BBC Radio OB sound trucks there as well. Nick Gilbey > On 25 Jun 2023, at 10:22, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: > > I?m generally reluctant to criticise technical aspects of TV productions because I know from years of experience that many factors, often untoward, may cause difficulties which can seriously diminish the end quality of the product, but of which the audience remains unaware. > > Having said that I?ve been disappointed with several of the Glastonbury sound balances this year. Many of the vocals have sounded ?buried? and a couple of times I?ve wondered whether what I was hearing was just PA spill rather than the feed from the singer?s mic. itself. > > The relative levels between live links, performances and other pre-records has also been odd with the links sometimes loudest and the inserts very quiet, as if the overall programme wasn?t being monitored effectively. > > Also, although I?m not a camera person, I?ve noticed many crash zooms and whip pans during the performances suggesting cameras being cut to ?unexpectedly.? > > I watched a lot of the 2022 festival and overall it was rather better, the sound on Metronomy?s set, for example, was excellent. > > I wonder whether anything?s changed this time, a further reflection of the BBC making savings perhaps? > > Hugh Snape > >> On 25 Jun 2023, at 09:16, Philip Tyler via Tech1 wrote: >> >> I have to say the sound for Guns and Roses was particularly poor. >> Axl Rose?s vocals were almost non existent at times, I think they must still be looking for the fader for the piano in November Rain. If they even rigged a microphone for it? As for the Bass he might as well not have turned up! I gave up watching as the sound was so bad! >> >> Totally unlike when Metallica headlined at Glastonbury where the sound was brilliant! >> >> Philip and Bee >> >> https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/ >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk Nick Gilbey Rndgilbey at yahoo.co.uk From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Sun Jun 25 10:51:02 2023 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 16:51:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] For those of you who like STEAM engines ... Message-ID: <068c4c5b-4148-8190-ecd8-ee200ede0e19@gmail.com> Hi all, Last Thursday I gave a talk to the Reading Society of Model Engineers (RSME) about the computer simulation of steam locomtive valve gears. Following an introduction about simulation, 5 existing computer (or, rather, PC-based) simulations were shown, and then I showed some of the issues I faced trying to write a simulator for Walshaerts Valve gear. The slides and notes are here https://wordpress.com/page/gwrlocomotivesketchpad.wordpress.com/1423 or https://gwrlocomotivesketchpad.wordpress.com/valve-gear-simulations/ (either should work). You won't hear (the first verse and chorus of)? Don Bilston's song in the notes, so I have attached it to this email?? And of course you wpon't have the benefit of all the presentation animation. In spite of all that, you may still enjoy it... Best regards, Alec -- ===================================== Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com MOD: 07789 561 346 TEL: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fireman.mp3 Type: audio/mpeg Size: 821238 bytes Desc: not available URL: From relong at btinternet.com Sun Jun 25 13:40:39 2023 From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2023 19:40:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Guns and Roses Glastonbury In-Reply-To: <32F7DA0D-3565-490D-96B5-3E8F42A96828@me.com> References: <32F7DA0D-3565-490D-96B5-3E8F42A96828@me.com> Message-ID: His voice is shot Can only do his highs and lows Slash can still do the biz Pretty average Glastonbury imho Roger Sent from my iPhone > On 25 Jun 2023, at 09:16, Philip Tyler via Tech1 wrote: > > ?I have to say the sound for Guns and Roses was particularly poor. > Axl Rose?s vocals were almost non existent at times, I think they must still be looking for the fader for the piano in November Rain. If they even rigged a microphone for it? As for the Bass he might as well not have turned up! I gave up watching as the sound was so bad! > > Totally unlike when Metallica headlined at Glastonbury where the sound was brilliant! > > Philip and Bee > > https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/ > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk Sun Jun 25 19:35:09 2023 From: david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk (David Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:35:09 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. Message-ID: Watching some of the Sunday night Glastonbury made me think about how 'ambient' a music mix should be before it loses it's definition and becomes too 'swimmy' in quality. At LWT in the 70s I learned at the elbow of Vic Finch, how to duck the audience faders to keep a sit-com exciting and still keep the dialogue in the foreground. The epitome of this at that time was probably the shows mixed by Mike McCarthy....loud and exciting though the audience was, you could hear every word of dialogue because the compressors work hard, as did the fast hand on the audience fader. This technique also worked for music mixing, as the audience mics could colour the sound mix very dramatically if left up, but were needed to make it feel like a real 'live' event of course. Over the years live broadcast music mixers have therefore had two techniques to decide to use I think. There's the 'just enough' audience constantly in the mix to 'make it work', and the 'just add audience when necessary' method. I mixed lots live music and went for the later most definitely. It's much harder work, having to be really vicious with yanking the audience fader down when required and at some point you'll get it wrong and the colouration will be enormous....but at least the music mix will be the best you're able to achieve for most of the show. Of course there are lots more occasions now when the audience knows the words and sings along, which means the 'how far up' decisions come more frequently but I regret that the Glastonbury mixers seem to opt for the 'half to three quarters up' audience all the time and I'm afraid I just don't like it like that. On Sunday, Cat Stevens and Elton John sounded like I was listening 'from a distance' when I wanted to be 'up close' more often. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nick at mcr21.org.uk Mon Jun 26 03:27:51 2023 From: nick at mcr21.org.uk (Nick Gilbey) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 09:27:51 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Spot on - I presume the music mix came from the BBC radio trucks? Nick PS I prefer to be able to hear the singer clearly. It did sound like the voice was coming from a mike placed in front of one of the PA speakers. > On 26 Jun 2023, at 01:35, David Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > > Watching some of the Sunday night Glastonbury made me think about how 'ambient' a music mix should be before it loses it's definition and becomes too 'swimmy' in quality. At LWT in the 70s I learned at the elbow of Vic Finch, how to duck the audience faders to keep a sit-com exciting and still keep the dialogue in the foreground. The epitome of this at that time was probably the shows mixed by Mike McCarthy....loud and exciting though the audience was, you could hear every word of dialogue because the compressors work hard, as did the fast hand on the audience fader. > This technique also worked for music mixing, as the audience mics could colour the sound mix very dramatically if left up, but were needed to make it feel like a real 'live' event of course. > Over the years live broadcast music mixers have therefore had two techniques to decide to use I think. There's the 'just enough' audience constantly in the mix to 'make it work', and the 'just add audience when necessary' method. > I mixed lots live music and went for the later most definitely. It's much harder work, having to be really vicious with yanking the audience fader down when required and at some point you'll get it wrong and the colouration will be enormous....but at least the music mix will be the best you're able to achieve for most of the show. Of course there are lots more occasions now when the audience knows the words and sings along, which means the 'how far up' decisions come more frequently but I regret that the Glastonbury mixers seem to opt for the 'half to three quarters up' audience all the time and I'm afraid I just don't like it like that. On Sunday, Cat Stevens and Elton John sounded like I was listening 'from a distance' when I wanted to be 'up close' more often. > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk Nick Gilbey nick at mcr21.org.uk From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Mon Jun 26 03:48:20 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 09:48:20 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <191bdb48-894d-de9b-915e-65af5187f69e@gmail.com> I thought it excellent. Nice bright vocal sound just like the old days. Not 'loose' at all, but plenty reverb. On 26/06/2023 09:27, Nick Gilbey via Tech1 wrote: > Spot on - I presume the music mix came from the BBC radio trucks? Nick > > PS I prefer to be able to hear the singer clearly. It did sound like the voice was coming from a mike placed in front of one of the PA speakers. > >> On 26 Jun 2023, at 01:35, David Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Watching some of the Sunday night Glastonbury made me think about how 'ambient' a music mix should be before it loses it's definition and becomes too 'swimmy' in quality. At LWT in the 70s I learned at the elbow of Vic Finch, how to duck the audience faders to keep a sit-com exciting and still keep the dialogue in the foreground. The epitome of this at that time was probably the shows mixed by Mike McCarthy....loud and exciting though the audience was, you could hear every word of dialogue because the compressors work hard, as did the fast hand on the audience fader. >> This technique also worked for music mixing, as the audience mics could colour the sound mix very dramatically if left up, but were needed to make it feel like a real 'live' event of course. >> Over the years live broadcast music mixers have therefore had two techniques to decide to use I think. There's the 'just enough' audience constantly in the mix to 'make it work', and the 'just add audience when necessary' method. >> I mixed lots live music and went for the later most definitely. It's much harder work, having to be really vicious with yanking the audience fader down when required and at some point you'll get it wrong and the colouration will be enormous....but at least the music mix will be the best you're able to achieve for most of the show. Of course there are lots more occasions now when the audience knows the words and sings along, which means the 'how far up' decisions come more frequently but I regret that the Glastonbury mixers seem to opt for the 'half to three quarters up' audience all the time and I'm afraid I just don't like it like that. On Sunday, Cat Stevens and Elton John sounded like I was listening 'from a distance' when I wanted to be 'up close' more often. >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > Nick Gilbey > nick at mcr21.org.uk > > > > -- Dave Plowman London, SW From relong at btinternet.com Mon Jun 26 05:14:51 2023 From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 11:14:51 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. In-Reply-To: <191bdb48-894d-de9b-915e-65af5187f69e@gmail.com> References: <191bdb48-894d-de9b-915e-65af5187f69e@gmail.com> Message-ID: <36FC623C-C388-46A3-B482-459A29C514C6@btinternet.com> Glastonbury is all about the audience This colours the mix obviously and also makes for a pretty similar sound for all acts 200 ,000 voices can be compelling and emotional I did a Julian Temple film for Mr Eavis in 2002 , the 30th anniversary, I was on top of sound control Pyramid stage for the first live Animals set by Roger Walters ,in quad PA And later Rod Stewart with full touring band.It sounded great up there I, was on Dat and a mid side pair of MKH mics Wind phase was minimal the audience and band?s excellent It?s a difficult gig for live tele You have to be there Music is just half the experience Roger Sent from my iPhone > On 26 Jun 2023, at 09:49, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > ?I thought it excellent. Nice bright vocal sound just like the old days. Not 'loose' at all, but plenty reverb. > >> On 26/06/2023 09:27, Nick Gilbey via Tech1 wrote: >> Spot on - I presume the music mix came from the BBC radio trucks? Nick >> PS I prefer to be able to hear the singer clearly. It did sound like the voice was coming from a mike placed in front of one of the PA speakers. >>>> On 26 Jun 2023, at 01:35, David Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> Watching some of the Sunday night Glastonbury made me think about how 'ambient' a music mix should be before it loses it's definition and becomes too 'swimmy' in quality. At LWT in the 70s I learned at the elbow of Vic Finch, how to duck the audience faders to keep a sit-com exciting and still keep the dialogue in the foreground. The epitome of this at that time was probably the shows mixed by Mike McCarthy....loud and exciting though the audience was, you could hear every word of dialogue because the compressors work hard, as did the fast hand on the audience fader. >>> This technique also worked for music mixing, as the audience mics could colour the sound mix very dramatically if left up, but were needed to make it feel like a real 'live' event of course. >>> Over the years live broadcast music mixers have therefore had two techniques to decide to use I think. There's the 'just enough' audience constantly in the mix to 'make it work', and the 'just add audience when necessary' method. >>> I mixed lots live music and went for the later most definitely. It's much harder work, having to be really vicious with yanking the audience fader down when required and at some point you'll get it wrong and the colouration will be enormous....but at least the music mix will be the best you're able to achieve for most of the show. Of course there are lots more occasions now when the audience knows the words and sings along, which means the 'how far up' decisions come more frequently but I regret that the Glastonbury mixers seem to opt for the 'half to three quarters up' audience all the time and I'm afraid I just don't like it like that. On Sunday, Cat Stevens and Elton John sounded like I was listening 'from a distance' when I wanted to be 'up close' more often. >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> Nick Gilbey >> nick at mcr21.org.uk > > -- > Dave Plowman > London, SW > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From alawrance1 at me.com Mon Jun 26 05:45:45 2023 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 11:45:45 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. In-Reply-To: <36FC623C-C388-46A3-B482-459A29C514C6@btinternet.com> References: <191bdb48-894d-de9b-915e-65af5187f69e@gmail.com> <36FC623C-C388-46A3-B482-459A29C514C6@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <9ABFEB7E-6045-420F-8F47-5722680AF33B@me.com> I thought it was good sound, too, but what do I know? I did think there were some voice sync problems with Elton's set, which I put down to all the fiddle-faddling that goes on these days post-mic in the TX chain, but all in all, I thought his Farewell a real triumph. Two things impressed me - one was Davey Johnstone, Nigel Olsson and John Mahon being still with him 50 years on, and they've still 'got it', and two, the audience not even born when EJ started out still knew the words to the 'Golden Age' hits. I saw him at Watford Football Ground probably in the '70's, when we all sat respectfully on the grass - how times change! It might have been with Hibou, but I can't be sure, perhaps John can confirm or otherwise? Alasdair Lawrance alawrance1 at me.com Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > On 26 Jun 2023, at 11:14, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote: > > Glastonbury is all about the audience > This colours the mix obviously and also makes for a pretty similar sound for all acts > 200 ,000 voices can be compelling and emotional > I did a Julian Temple film for Mr Eavis in 2002 , the 30th anniversary, I was on top of sound control Pyramid stage for the first live Animals set by Roger Walters ,in quad PA > And later Rod Stewart with full touring band.It sounded great up there I, was on Dat and a mid side pair of MKH mics > Wind phase was minimal the audience and band?s excellent > It?s a difficult gig for live tele > You have to be there > Music is just half the experience > Roger > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 26 Jun 2023, at 09:49, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?I thought it excellent. Nice bright vocal sound just like the old days. Not 'loose' at all, but plenty reverb. >> >>> On 26/06/2023 09:27, Nick Gilbey via Tech1 wrote: >>> Spot on - I presume the music mix came from the BBC radio trucks? Nick >>> PS I prefer to be able to hear the singer clearly. It did sound like the voice was coming from a mike placed in front of one of the PA speakers. >>>>> On 26 Jun 2023, at 01:35, David Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> Watching some of the Sunday night Glastonbury made me think about how 'ambient' a music mix should be before it loses it's definition and becomes too 'swimmy' in quality. At LWT in the 70s I learned at the elbow of Vic Finch, how to duck the audience faders to keep a sit-com exciting and still keep the dialogue in the foreground. The epitome of this at that time was probably the shows mixed by Mike McCarthy....loud and exciting though the audience was, you could hear every word of dialogue because the compressors work hard, as did the fast hand on the audience fader. >>>> This technique also worked for music mixing, as the audience mics could colour the sound mix very dramatically if left up, but were needed to make it feel like a real 'live' event of course. >>>> Over the years live broadcast music mixers have therefore had two techniques to decide to use I think. There's the 'just enough' audience constantly in the mix to 'make it work', and the 'just add audience when necessary' method. >>>> I mixed lots live music and went for the later most definitely. It's much harder work, having to be really vicious with yanking the audience fader down when required and at some point you'll get it wrong and the colouration will be enormous....but at least the music mix will be the best you're able to achieve for most of the show. Of course there are lots more occasions now when the audience knows the words and sings along, which means the 'how far up' decisions come more frequently but I regret that the Glastonbury mixers seem to opt for the 'half to three quarters up' audience all the time and I'm afraid I just don't like it like that. On Sunday, Cat Stevens and Elton John sounded like I was listening 'from a distance' when I wanted to be 'up close' more often. >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> Nick Gilbey >>> nick at mcr21.org.uk >> >> -- >> Dave Plowman >> London, SW >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Mon Jun 26 06:39:05 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 12:39:05 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. In-Reply-To: <36FC623C-C388-46A3-B482-459A29C514C6@btinternet.com> References: <36FC623C-C388-46A3-B482-459A29C514C6@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <04D04895-810D-4A87-B8C8-EF2389258C03@me.com> A huge factor is the expectations of the production team. If a freelancer wants repeat bookings, they need to deliver what the director wants, even if it?s not necessarily what they might prefer themselves. In the case of a conventional rock concert, all eyes and ears are generally on the music until it?s time to applaud between songs, but when it comes to a festival, the audience become much more a part of the show - visually and audibly. When it comes to the immense crowds for Elton John, directors will include countless shots of the crowd and expect to hear them too, especially when the artist encourages them to sing along. I think it?s correct to balance the mix with the crowd always being fairly prominent as they are such a big part of the show. The sound levels at festivals are pretty extreme, even though there are limits to the permissible volume. It?s not easy to pick up audience reaction without PA colouration. If you ride the audience faders too much, the colouration will go up and down accordingly. Most directors I?ve worked with have wanted to clearly hear the crowd reaction, even if it adversely affects the music mix. I?ve never done Glastonbury, but I?ve mixed coverage of Reading, the V Festivals and a number of smaller, but still pretty damn big festivals. There isn?t one solution which works for all, as there are too many variables. I make careful notes about what works and what doesn?t work. After being particularly delighted with the crowd pickup at Reading one year, I thought I had it sorted and made careful notes of how I did it in order to replicate it. In subsequent years it didn?t work out quite as well as before. I?ve no idea if it was down to a change in the PA system, the layout of the stage, or just a more subdued crowd, but what had previously seemed almost effortless had become much harder work. When mixing big concerts, the supervisor doesn?t always get the feeds they would like. During my time guaranteeing the MSC, one of our very best and most respected music supervisors was told that he could only have feeds from the group faders on the PA desk. It was American A-list act, performing in a medium size hall and the tour people were pretty arrogant and hostile towards European TV people. The big problem was that PA is really sound reinforcement. In those days, they would amplify the quieter elements ( vocal, acoustic guitars, flutes etc ) to balance the louder elements ( drums, brass, electric guitars etc ) as heard in the auditorium. However the drums, brass and guitars didn?t need much amplification as they were audible in the auditorium anyway, so they weren?t very prominent in the feeds from the PA desk. The television mix was sadly lacking in all those elements and as they say, had no balls. The supervisor was frustrated at not being able to create the mix he wanted to do, but was denied the feeds he really needed, nor would they let him put in additional microphones to compensate. Songs from that show occasionally get repeated in compilation programmes on BBC Four and whenever I hear one of those recordings, it reminds me of his anger and frustration. Alan From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Mon Jun 26 07:00:41 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 13:00:41 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. In-Reply-To: <04D04895-810D-4A87-B8C8-EF2389258C03@me.com> References: <36FC623C-C388-46A3-B482-459A29C514C6@btinternet.com> <04D04895-810D-4A87-B8C8-EF2389258C03@me.com> Message-ID: <54fc7efb-dfc8-4dcd-503a-5ff990a19717@gmail.com> One thing I did notice on the Elton set was a number where they was quite a bit of solo piano. I assume that arrives at the mixer as a pair of XLRs or whatever? The extreme bottom end sounding quite odd - almost like a mic which was actually touching the strings. Buy hey - didn't spoil it. I wasn't expecting a studio type recording anyway - and what we got was as near magic as your could expect. Anyone know who the BBC SS was? I have yet to see the last bit of it - as I always chat to my brother by phone late Sunday night. On 26/06/2023 12:39, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > A huge factor is the expectations of the production team. If a freelancer wants repeat bookings, they need to deliver what the director wants, even if it?s not necessarily what they might prefer themselves. > > In the case of a conventional rock concert, all eyes and ears are generally on the music until it?s time to applaud between songs, but when it comes to a festival, the audience become much more a part of the show - visually and audibly. When it comes to the immense crowds for Elton John, directors will include countless shots of the crowd and expect to hear them too, especially when the artist encourages them to sing along. I think it?s correct to balance the mix with the crowd always being fairly prominent as they are such a big part of the show. > > The sound levels at festivals are pretty extreme, even though there are limits to the permissible volume. It?s not easy to pick up audience reaction without PA colouration. If you ride the audience faders too much, the colouration will go up and down accordingly. Most directors I?ve worked with have wanted to clearly hear the crowd reaction, even if it adversely affects the music mix. > > I?ve never done Glastonbury, but I?ve mixed coverage of Reading, the V Festivals and a number of smaller, but still pretty damn big festivals. There isn?t one solution which works for all, as there are too many variables. I make careful notes about what works and what doesn?t work. After being particularly delighted with the crowd pickup at Reading one year, I thought I had it sorted and made careful notes of how I did it in order to replicate it. In subsequent years it didn?t work out quite as well as before. I?ve no idea if it was down to a change in the PA system, the layout of the stage, or just a more subdued crowd, but what had previously seemed almost effortless had become much harder work. > > When mixing big concerts, the supervisor doesn?t always get the feeds they would like. During my time guaranteeing the MSC, one of our very best and most respected music supervisors was told that he could only have feeds from the group faders on the PA desk. It was American A-list act, performing in a medium size hall and the tour people were pretty arrogant and hostile towards European TV people. The big problem was that PA is really sound reinforcement. In those days, they would amplify the quieter elements ( vocal, acoustic guitars, flutes etc ) to balance the louder elements ( drums, brass, electric guitars etc ) as heard in the auditorium. However the drums, brass and guitars didn?t need much amplification as they were audible in the auditorium anyway, so they weren?t very prominent in the feeds from the PA desk. The television mix was sadly lacking in all those elements and as they say, had no balls. > > The supervisor was frustrated at not being able to create the mix he wanted to do, but was denied the feeds he really needed, nor would they let him put in additional microphones to compensate. > > Songs from that show occasionally get repeated in compilation programmes on BBC Four and whenever I hear one of those recordings, it reminds me of his anger and frustration. > > Alan > > -- Dave Plowman London, SW From alanaudio at me.com Mon Jun 26 07:18:33 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 13:18:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. In-Reply-To: <54fc7efb-dfc8-4dcd-503a-5ff990a19717@gmail.com> References: <54fc7efb-dfc8-4dcd-503a-5ff990a19717@gmail.com> Message-ID: <04EBE5ED-CC8E-47F4-A39C-F7109526C0CD@me.com> There was one close up keyboard shot where Elton played the piano, but his fingers weren?t moving in the way I expected. I can?t remember the song and intend to watch it again when I get a chance. Initially I thought it might be a sync problem, but I then found myself wondering whether Kim Bullard might have been doubling for Elton at that point? Always entertaining to see Ray Cooper being the showman that he is. I?ve worked on a few Elton John concerts and Ray can get very close to upstaging him at times while playing nothing more than a tambourine or triangle. He is another who has backed Elton since the early days, but not continuously. Top bloke too. Alan > On 26 Jun 2023, at 13:01, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > ?One thing I did notice on the Elton set was a number where they was quite a bit of solo piano. I assume that arrives at the mixer as a pair of XLRs or whatever? The extreme bottom end sounding quite odd - almost like a mic which was actually touching the strings. Buy hey - didn't spoil it. I wasn't expecting a studio type recording anyway - and what we got was as near magic as your could expect. Anyone know who the BBC SS was? I have yet to see the last bit of it - as I always chat to my brother by phone late Sunday night. > >> On 26/06/2023 12:39, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> A huge factor is the expectations of the production team. If a freelancer wants repeat bookings, they need to deliver what the director wants, even if it?s not necessarily what they might prefer themselves. >> In the case of a conventional rock concert, all eyes and ears are generally on the music until it?s time to applaud between songs, but when it comes to a festival, the audience become much more a part of the show - visually and audibly. When it comes to the immense crowds for Elton John, directors will include countless shots of the crowd and expect to hear them too, especially when the artist encourages them to sing along. I think it?s correct to balance the mix with the crowd always being fairly prominent as they are such a big part of the show. >> The sound levels at festivals are pretty extreme, even though there are limits to the permissible volume. It?s not easy to pick up audience reaction without PA colouration. If you ride the audience faders too much, the colouration will go up and down accordingly. Most directors I?ve worked with have wanted to clearly hear the crowd reaction, even if it adversely affects the music mix. >> I?ve never done Glastonbury, but I?ve mixed coverage of Reading, the V Festivals and a number of smaller, but still pretty damn big festivals. There isn?t one solution which works for all, as there are too many variables. I make careful notes about what works and what doesn?t work. After being particularly delighted with the crowd pickup at Reading one year, I thought I had it sorted and made careful notes of how I did it in order to replicate it. In subsequent years it didn?t work out quite as well as before. I?ve no idea if it was down to a change in the PA system, the layout of the stage, or just a more subdued crowd, but what had previously seemed almost effortless had become much harder work. >> When mixing big concerts, the supervisor doesn?t always get the feeds they would like. During my time guaranteeing the MSC, one of our very best and most respected music supervisors was told that he could only have feeds from the group faders on the PA desk. It was American A-list act, performing in a medium size hall and the tour people were pretty arrogant and hostile towards European TV people. The big problem was that PA is really sound reinforcement. In those days, they would amplify the quieter elements ( vocal, acoustic guitars, flutes etc ) to balance the louder elements ( drums, brass, electric guitars etc ) as heard in the auditorium. However the drums, brass and guitars didn?t need much amplification as they were audible in the auditorium anyway, so they weren?t very prominent in the feeds from the PA desk. The television mix was sadly lacking in all those elements and as they say, had no balls. >> The supervisor was frustrated at not being able to create the mix he wanted to do, but was denied the feeds he really needed, nor would they let him put in additional microphones to compensate. >> Songs from that show occasionally get repeated in compilation programmes on BBC Four and whenever I hear one of those recordings, it reminds me of his anger and frustration. >> Alan > > -- > Dave Plowman > London, SW > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From techtone at protonmail.com Mon Jun 26 14:22:11 2023 From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2023 19:22:11 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 1970 or thereabouts, word spreading around TVC, go have a look in studio 4. Wow, there's this trio, piano, bass and drums, playing away, no camera rehearsal in evidence at the time and obviously enjoying themselves, belting out Country Comfort, Burn Down the Mission, etc. None other than Elton. The following day i went out and bought the album, Tumbleweed Collection. Didn't watch very much of last night's offering, but on our cheap tv, receiving Freeview, it sounded to me too as if the sound was coming from a mic in front of a PA speaker (but hey, I'm only. cloth-eared cameraman). TeaTeaFN - Tony Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Monday, June 26th, 2023 at 01:35, David Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > Watching some of the Sunday night Glastonbury made me think about how 'ambient' a music mix should be before it loses it's definition and becomes too 'swimmy' in quality. At LWT in the 70s I learned at the elbow of Vic Finch, how to duck the audience faders to keep a sit-com exciting and still keep the dialogue in the foreground. The epitome of this at that time was probably the shows mixed by Mike McCarthy....loud and exciting though the audience was, you could hear every word of dialogue because the compressors work hard, as did the fast hand on the audience fader. > This technique also worked for music mixing, as the audience mics could colour the sound mix very dramatically if left up, but were needed to make it feel like a real 'live' event of course. > Over the years live broadcast music mixers have therefore had two techniques to decide to use I think. There's the 'just enough' audience constantly in the mix to 'make it work', and the 'just add audience when necessary' method. > I mixed lots live music and went for the later most definitely. It's much harder work, having to be really vicious with yanking the audience fader down when required and at some point you'll get it wrong and the colouration will be enormous....but at least the music mix will be the best you're able to achieve for most of the show. Of course there are lots more occasions now when the audience knows the words and sings along, which means the 'how far up' decisions come more frequently but I regret that the Glastonbury mixers seem to opt for the 'half to three quarters up' audience all the time and I'm afraid I just don't like it like that. On Sunday, Cat Stevens and Elton John sounded like I was listening 'from a distance' when I wanted to be 'up close' more often. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk Tue Jun 27 03:51:06 2023 From: robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk (Robert Miles) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2023 09:51:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Eurovision Pics Message-ID: <000c01d9a8d4$82d090a0$8871b1e0$@soundsuper.co.uk> Some Eurovision Song Contest 2023 Liverpool: Behind The Scenes Photos:- Eurovision Song Contest 2023 Liverpool: Behind The Scenes Photos | LIVE-PRODUCTION.TV Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hughsnape at talktalk.net Tue Jun 27 08:01:54 2023 From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2023 14:01:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26EE364F-CDCF-4EDD-8D01-1DA3B290BD40@talktalk.net> Quite an interesting read: https://www.ibc.org/features/behind-the-scenes-glastonbury-2023/9683.article?fbclid=IwAR17g5BGZVhxItnqnnP_5K7H416xbrAfkaDDpl4bgNVURJ7jADT4SU2Ii3k Hugh > On 26 Jun 2023, at 20:22, techtone via Tech1 wrote: > > 1970 or thereabouts, word spreading around TVC, go have a look in studio 4. Wow, there's this trio, piano, bass and drums, playing away, no camera rehearsal in evidence at the time and obviously enjoying themselves, belting out Country Comfort, Burn Down the Mission, etc. None other than Elton. The following day i went out and bought the album, Tumbleweed Collection. > > Didn't watch very much of last night's offering, but on our cheap tv, receiving Freeview, it sounded to me too as if the sound was coming from a mic in front of a PA speaker (but hey, I'm only. cloth-eared cameraman). > > TeaTeaFN - Tony > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > > ------- Original Message ------- > On Monday, June 26th, 2023 at 01:35, David Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > >> Watching some of the Sunday night Glastonbury made me think about how 'ambient' a music mix should be before it loses it's definition and becomes too 'swimmy' in quality. At LWT in the 70s I learned at the elbow of Vic Finch, how to duck the audience faders to keep a sit-com exciting and still keep the dialogue in the foreground. The epitome of this at that time was probably the shows mixed by Mike McCarthy....loud and exciting though the audience was, you could hear every word of dialogue because the compressors work hard, as did the fast hand on the audience fader. >> This technique also worked for music mixing, as the audience mics could colour the sound mix very dramatically if left up, but were needed to make it feel like a real 'live' event of course. >> Over the years live broadcast music mixers have therefore had two techniques to decide to use I think. There's the 'just enough' audience constantly in the mix to 'make it work', and the 'just add audience when necessary' method. >> I mixed lots live music and went for the later most definitely. It's much harder work, having to be really vicious with yanking the audience fader down when required and at some point you'll get it wrong and the colouration will be enormous....but at least the music mix will be the best you're able to achieve for most of the show. Of course there are lots more occasions now when the audience knows the words and sings along, which means the 'how far up' decisions come more frequently but I regret that the Glastonbury mixers seem to opt for the 'half to three quarters up' audience all the time and I'm afraid I just don't like it like that. On Sunday, Cat Stevens and Elton John sounded like I was listening 'from a distance' when I wanted to be 'up close' more often. > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rndgilbey at yahoo.co.uk Tue Jun 27 09:02:37 2023 From: rndgilbey at yahoo.co.uk (Nick Gilbey) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2023 15:02:37 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. Glastonbury In-Reply-To: <26EE364F-CDCF-4EDD-8D01-1DA3B290BD40@talktalk.net> References: <26EE364F-CDCF-4EDD-8D01-1DA3B290BD40@talktalk.net> Message-ID: <217EC319-80D9-4211-B518-9E7A48595882@yahoo.co.uk> Really interesting to read about the BBC?s coverage of Glastonbury. Also interesting that the BBC have replaced Arena OB facilities with OB units from Timeline (ex BBC OBs Dan O?Donnell's company) and Cloudbass, which started off as a university media facility. It is good that the BBC is using the smaller companies and not just giving all the work to EMG and NEP Visions. Nick Nick Gilbey Rndgilbey at mcr21.co.uk > On 27 Jun 2023, at 14:01, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: > > Quite an interesting read: > > https://www.ibc.org/features/behind-the-scenes-glastonbury-2023/9683.article?fbclid=IwAR17g5BGZVhxItnqnnP_5K7H416xbrAfkaDDpl4bgNVURJ7jADT4SU2Ii3k > > Hugh > >> On 26 Jun 2023, at 20:22, techtone via Tech1 wrote: >> >> 1970 or thereabouts, word spreading around TVC, go have a look in studio 4. Wow, there's this trio, piano, bass and drums, playing away, no camera rehearsal in evidence at the time and obviously enjoying themselves, belting out Country Comfort, Burn Down the Mission, etc. None other than Elton. The following day i went out and bought the album, Tumbleweed Collection. >> >> Didn't watch very much of last night's offering, but on our cheap tv, receiving Freeview, it sounded to me too as if the sound was coming from a mic in front of a PA speaker (but hey, I'm only. cloth-eared cameraman). >> >> TeaTeaFN - Tony >> >> Sent with Proton Mail secure email. >> >> ------- Original Message ------- >> On Monday, June 26th, 2023 at 01:35, David Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> >>> Watching some of the Sunday night Glastonbury made me think about how 'ambient' a music mix should be before it loses it's definition and becomes too 'swimmy' in quality. At LWT in the 70s I learned at the elbow of Vic Finch, how to duck the audience faders to keep a sit-com exciting and still keep the dialogue in the foreground. The epitome of this at that time was probably the shows mixed by Mike McCarthy....loud and exciting though the audience was, you could hear every word of dialogue because the compressors work hard, as did the fast hand on the audience fader. >>> This technique also worked for music mixing, as the audience mics could colour the sound mix very dramatically if left up, but were needed to make it feel like a real 'live' event of course. >>> Over the years live broadcast music mixers have therefore had two techniques to decide to use I think. There's the 'just enough' audience constantly in the mix to 'make it work', and the 'just add audience when necessary' method. >>> I mixed lots live music and went for the later most definitely. It's much harder work, having to be really vicious with yanking the audience fader down when required and at some point you'll get it wrong and the colouration will be enormous....but at least the music mix will be the best you're able to achieve for most of the show. Of course there are lots more occasions now when the audience knows the words and sings along, which means the 'how far up' decisions come more frequently but I regret that the Glastonbury mixers seem to opt for the 'half to three quarters up' audience all the time and I'm afraid I just don't like it like that. On Sunday, Cat Stevens and Elton John sounded like I was listening 'from a distance' when I wanted to be 'up close' more often. >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk Nick Gilbey Rndgilbey at yahoo.co.uk From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Tue Jun 27 10:55:30 2023 From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2023 16:55:30 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. Glastonbury In-Reply-To: <217EC319-80D9-4211-B518-9E7A48595882@yahoo.co.uk> References: <26EE364F-CDCF-4EDD-8D01-1DA3B290BD40@talktalk.net> <217EC319-80D9-4211-B518-9E7A48595882@yahoo.co.uk> Message-ID: <001101d9a90f$cce53fc0$66afbf40$@pgtmedia.co.uk> Timeline TV bought some (3?) of the Arena OB trucks in the sale of the assets by the administrator's. Obviously they were the trucks that 'usually' did certain jobs, so are the firstchoice for any of those jobs now. Timeline is a small company compared with EMG , but its not that small these days! It has quite a big OB fleet (Greenford based), Ealing Broadcast Centre in an Office block next to the Premier Inn. (Studios & PCR's etc , replacing what they had at Ealing Studios) Edits in Soho & Salford / Manchester. BT Sport has used them to support the Studios in Stratford from Launch to date, but this will cease shortly as BT Sport ceases to exist in 3 weeks time and it will become 'TNT Sports' as a Joint venture between BT & Warner Brothers / Discovery and will use facilities elsewhere. Dan has not done badly since he stopped being a VT OP...... Paul Thackray PGT Media Consulting Ltd. 07802 243979 Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746 IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/ -----Original Message----- From: Tech1 On Behalf Of Nick Gilbey via Tech1 Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2023 3:03 PM To: Alan Taylor via Tech1 Subject: Re: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. Glastonbury Really interesting to read about the BBC?s coverage of Glastonbury. Also interesting that the BBC have replaced Arena OB facilities with OB units from Timeline (ex BBC OBs Dan O?Donnell's company) and Cloudbass, which started off as a university media facility. It is good that the BBC is using the smaller companies and not just giving all the work to EMG and NEP Visions. Nick Nick Gilbey Rndgilbey at mcr21.co.uk > On 27 Jun 2023, at 14:01, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: > > Quite an interesting read: > > https://www.ibc.org/features/behind-the-scenes-glastonbury-2023/9683.article?fbclid=IwAR17g5BGZVhxItnqnnP_5K7H416xbrAfkaDDpl4bgNVURJ7jADT4SU2Ii3k > > Hugh > >> On 26 Jun 2023, at 20:22, techtone via Tech1 wrote: >> >> 1970 or thereabouts, word spreading around TVC, go have a look in studio 4. Wow, there's this trio, piano, bass and drums, playing away, no camera rehearsal in evidence at the time and obviously enjoying themselves, belting out Country Comfort, Burn Down the Mission, etc. None other than Elton. The following day i went out and bought the album, Tumbleweed Collection. >> >> Didn't watch very much of last night's offering, but on our cheap tv, receiving Freeview, it sounded to me too as if the sound was coming from a mic in front of a PA speaker (but hey, I'm only. cloth-eared cameraman). >> >> TeaTeaFN - Tony >> >> Sent with Proton Mail secure email. >> >> ------- Original Message ------- >> On Monday, June 26th, 2023 at 01:35, David Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> >>> Watching some of the Sunday night Glastonbury made me think about how 'ambient' a music mix should be before it loses it's definition and becomes too 'swimmy' in quality. At LWT in the 70s I learned at the elbow of Vic Finch, how to duck the audience faders to keep a sit-com exciting and still keep the dialogue in the foreground. The epitome of this at that time was probably the shows mixed by Mike McCarthy....loud and exciting though the audience was, you could hear every word of dialogue because the compressors work hard, as did the fast hand on the audience fader. >>> This technique also worked for music mixing, as the audience mics could colour the sound mix very dramatically if left up, but were needed to make it feel like a real 'live' event of course. >>> Over the years live broadcast music mixers have therefore had two techniques to decide to use I think. There's the 'just enough' audience constantly in the mix to 'make it work', and the 'just add audience when necessary' method. >>> I mixed lots live music and went for the later most definitely. It's much harder work, having to be really vicious with yanking the audience fader down when required and at some point you'll get it wrong and the colouration will be enormous....but at least the music mix will be the best you're able to achieve for most of the show. Of course there are lots more occasions now when the audience knows the words and sings along, which means the 'how far up' decisions come more frequently but I regret that the Glastonbury mixers seem to opt for the 'half to three quarters up' audience all the time and I'm afraid I just don't like it like that. On Sunday, Cat Stevens and Elton John sounded like I was listening 'from a distance' when I wanted to be 'up close' more often. >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk Nick Gilbey Rndgilbey at yahoo.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Jun 28 09:28:56 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2023 15:28:56 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Something to Consider Message-ID: <2c657b4f-9db4-a7f9-f046-bcae100b9939@amps.net> Pundits have been ponificating about lowering the cost of living. What about scrapping VAT. Yes, most food stuffs are zero rated anyway, but everything else incurs a 20% levy. Not having to pay this would help most people. It would leave the Government a bit short, but increase the Income tax to glean more from those that can afford it. Pat H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Wed Jun 28 09:28:54 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2023 14:28:54 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. Glastonbury In-Reply-To: <001101d9a90f$cce53fc0$66afbf40$@pgtmedia.co.uk> References: <26EE364F-CDCF-4EDD-8D01-1DA3B290BD40@talktalk.net> <217EC319-80D9-4211-B518-9E7A48595882@yahoo.co.uk> <001101d9a90f$cce53fc0$66afbf40$@pgtmedia.co.uk> Message-ID: Let?s not kid ourselves, I?m sure you will find that it?s all about who will do it cheapest. I used to do a lot of pop videos and Channel 4 stuff for one of the best known of such prod companies at the time (early Elton, Ozzie, Kiki et al) to name but three. He used to pitch for any financially interesting job going, saying that even if he only made a Pound out of it, it would stop anyone else doing it. That was quite a while ago when production and facilities companies would use the up-front money from the next to pay off the last job. Whatever he (we) did, he was even then a multi-multi millionaire whereas I?m not! I?m sure nothing has changed. In the News today, Thames Water comes to mind! Nick. Nick Ware - sent from my iPad > On 27 Jun 2023, at 16:56, Paul Thackray via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Timeline TV bought some (3?) of the Arena OB trucks in the sale of the assets by the administrator's. Obviously they were the trucks that 'usually' did certain jobs, so are the firstchoice for any of those jobs now. > > Timeline is a small company compared with EMG , but its not that small these days! It has quite a big OB fleet (Greenford based), Ealing Broadcast Centre in an Office block next to the Premier Inn. (Studios & PCR's etc , replacing what they had at Ealing Studios) Edits in Soho & Salford / Manchester. BT Sport has used them to support the Studios in Stratford from Launch to date, but this will cease shortly as BT Sport ceases to exist in 3 weeks time and it will become 'TNT Sports' as a Joint venture between BT & Warner Brothers / Discovery and will use facilities elsewhere. > > Dan has not done badly since he stopped being a VT OP...... > > Paul Thackray > PGT Media Consulting Ltd. > 07802 243979 > Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk > Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk > Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746 > IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tech1 On Behalf Of Nick Gilbey via Tech1 > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2023 3:03 PM > To: Alan Taylor via Tech1 > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Mixing live music with audiences. Glastonbury > > Really interesting to read about the BBC?s coverage of Glastonbury. Also interesting that the BBC have replaced Arena OB facilities with OB units from Timeline (ex BBC OBs Dan O?Donnell's company) and Cloudbass, which started off as a university media facility. It is good that the BBC is using the smaller companies and not just giving all the work to EMG and NEP Visions. Nick > > Nick Gilbey > Rndgilbey at mcr21.co.uk > > > > >> On 27 Jun 2023, at 14:01, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Quite an interesting read: >> >> https://www.ibc.org/features/behind-the-scenes-glastonbury-2023/9683.article?fbclid=IwAR17g5BGZVhxItnqnnP_5K7H416xbrAfkaDDpl4bgNVURJ7jADT4SU2Ii3k >> >> Hugh >> >>>> On 26 Jun 2023, at 20:22, techtone via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> 1970 or thereabouts, word spreading around TVC, go have a look in studio 4. Wow, there's this trio, piano, bass and drums, playing away, no camera rehearsal in evidence at the time and obviously enjoying themselves, belting out Country Comfort, Burn Down the Mission, etc. None other than Elton. The following day i went out and bought the album, Tumbleweed Collection. >>> >>> Didn't watch very much of last night's offering, but on our cheap tv, receiving Freeview, it sounded to me too as if the sound was coming from a mic in front of a PA speaker (but hey, I'm only. cloth-eared cameraman). >>> >>> TeaTeaFN - Tony >>> >>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email. >>> >>> ------- Original Message ------- >>>> On Monday, June 26th, 2023 at 01:35, David Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>>> Watching some of the Sunday night Glastonbury made me think about how 'ambient' a music mix should be before it loses it's definition and becomes too 'swimmy' in quality. At LWT in the 70s I learned at the elbow of Vic Finch, how to duck the audience faders to keep a sit-com exciting and still keep the dialogue in the foreground. The epitome of this at that time was probably the shows mixed by Mike McCarthy....loud and exciting though the audience was, you could hear every word of dialogue because the compressors work hard, as did the fast hand on the audience fader. >>>> This technique also worked for music mixing, as the audience mics could colour the sound mix very dramatically if left up, but were needed to make it feel like a real 'live' event of course. >>>> Over the years live broadcast music mixers have therefore had two techniques to decide to use I think. There's the 'just enough' audience constantly in the mix to 'make it work', and the 'just add audience when necessary' method. >>>> I mixed lots live music and went for the later most definitely. It's much harder work, having to be really vicious with yanking the audience fader down when required and at some point you'll get it wrong and the colouration will be enormous....but at least the music mix will be the best you're able to achieve for most of the show. Of course there are lots more occasions now when the audience knows the words and sings along, which means the 'how far up' decisions come more frequently but I regret that the Glastonbury mixers seem to opt for the 'half to three quarters up' audience all the time and I'm afraid I just don't like it like that. On Sunday, Cat Stevens and Elton John sounded like I was listening 'from a distance' when I wanted to be 'up close' more often. >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > Nick Gilbey > Rndgilbey at yahoo.co.uk > > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Wed Jun 28 10:14:24 2023 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2023 16:14:24 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Something to Consider In-Reply-To: <2c657b4f-9db4-a7f9-f046-bcae100b9939@amps.net> References: <2c657b4f-9db4-a7f9-f046-bcae100b9939@amps.net> Message-ID: <141584c5-65af-82b5-6a1e-f2eda5ffb13c@gmail.com> Transfer taxation from all to those most able to afford it, Pat? That would never do - wouldn't allow the 'trickle down' the government says it the way forward. Other name is 'crumbs from the master's table'. On 28/06/2023 15:28, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > Pundits have been ponificating about lowering the cost of living. > > What about scrapping VAT. > > Yes, most food stuffs are zero rated anyway, but everything else incurs > a 20% levy. > > Not having to pay this would help most people. > > It would leave the Government a bit short, but increase the Income tax > to glean more from > those that can afford it. > > Pat H > > -- Dave Plowman London, SW From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Jun 30 08:48:03 2023 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 14:48:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Who to cheer for? Message-ID: <07742cc7-a8bf-2653-3293-e0c7e787cff0@amps.net> Wimbledon Tennis once again, but no Federer, no Nadal and no Sue Barker for the interviews. I suppose we still have Murray.... Some years ago, Nigel, cameraman, and I turned up at Eastbourne for HBO or perhaps NBC, and were refused entry, as the Americans hadn't bothered to arrange press coverage. Nigel strolled across the road and knocked on the door of one of the houses opposite, "Can we borrow your front garden?" The couple were delighted (a bundle of petty cash dispensed and they produced two garden chairs and many mugs of tea, plus they had the chance to meet some of the top lady players who were brought over in turn for the interview! (and Sue Barker!) A superb bit of PR on Nigel's part. Pat (who used to project an HD picture on the wall of girlfriend's sitting room for the Men's final, munching a picnic on a rug on the floor) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry-wilkinson at sky.com Fri Jun 30 09:56:06 2023 From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 15:56:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Who to cheer for? In-Reply-To: <07742cc7-a8bf-2653-3293-e0c7e787cff0@amps.net> References: <07742cc7-a8bf-2653-3293-e0c7e787cff0@amps.net> Message-ID: <862F3160-16E3-4A3F-9938-4B453F865FED@sky.com> Can I cheer for when it is all over. I cannot stand all the groans and grunts from the players. Barry hates tennis! Sent from my iPad > On 30 Jun 2023, at 14:48, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > Wimbledon Tennis once again, > but no Federer, no Nadal and no Sue Barker for the interviews. > > I suppose we still have Murray.... > > Some years ago, Nigel, cameraman, and I turned up at Eastbourne for HBO or perhaps NBC, and were refused entry, > as the Americans hadn't bothered to arrange press coverage. > > Nigel strolled across the road and knocked on the door of one of the houses opposite, > "Can we borrow your front garden?" > The couple were delighted (a bundle of petty cash dispensed and they produced two garden chairs and > many mugs of tea, plus they had the chance to meet some of the top lady players who were brought > over in turn for the interview! (and Sue Barker!) > A superb bit of PR on Nigel's part. > > Pat > (who used to project an HD picture on the wall of girlfriend's sitting room for the Men's final, > munching a picnic on a rug on the floor) > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 100864 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Fri Jun 30 10:30:22 2023 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 16:30:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Who to cheer for? In-Reply-To: <862F3160-16E3-4A3F-9938-4B453F865FED@sky.com> References: <862F3160-16E3-4A3F-9938-4B453F865FED@sky.com> Message-ID: <17036431-01E6-44C5-802F-8194294CF1F7@me.com> I have always wanted the BBC to have a dedicated sports channel. Then they would be able to televise whatever sporting events they fancy and I could avoid all of it. Although I have little doubt that if there were a BBC Sport channel, they would still try to spread all those tedious sporting events over every other channel too. My particular gripe is how events like snooker or tennis can massively overrun their scheduled transmission time while a programme which I wanted to see is cancelled. That cancelled show isn?t even available on iPlayer. Nor is there a caption explaining whether the scheduled programme has been cancelled, or will follow. Sports production teams don?t merely overrun while the event overruns. After it has finished, the pundits have to talk about it and they invariably finish by showing a compilation highlights VT of the event. If an event runs over, they should only be allowed to overrun for the remaining duration of that event and then abruptly stop. Most sports fans don?t care what the pundits think and other viewers just want them to shut up, go away and let the scheduled programme start. Other production teams have worked jolly hard to create their programmes which should be being transmitted at that time. Alan > On 30 Jun 2023, at 15:56, B Wilkinson via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Can I cheer for when it is all over. I cannot stand all the groans and grunts from the players. Barry hates tennis! > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 30 Jun 2023, at 14:48, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >>> >> ? >> Wimbledon Tennis once again, >> but no Federer, no Nadal and no Sue Barker for the interviews. >> >> I suppose we still have Murray.... >> >> Some years ago, Nigel, cameraman, and I turned up at Eastbourne for HBO or perhaps NBC, and were refused entry, >> as the Americans hadn't bothered to arrange press coverage. >> >> Nigel strolled across the road and knocked on the door of one of the houses opposite, >> "Can we borrow your front garden?" >> The couple were delighted (a bundle of petty cash dispensed and they produced two garden chairs and >> many mugs of tea, plus they had the chance to meet some of the top lady players who were brought >> over in turn for the interview! (and Sue Barker!) >> A superb bit of PR on Nigel's part. >> >> Pat >> (who used to project an HD picture on the wall of girlfriend's sitting room for the Men's final, >> munching a picnic on a rug on the floor) >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 100864 bytes Desc: not available URL: From waresound at msn.com Fri Jun 30 12:50:37 2023 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 17:50:37 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Who to cheer for? In-Reply-To: <17036431-01E6-44C5-802F-8194294CF1F7@me.com> References: <862F3160-16E3-4A3F-9938-4B453F865FED@sky.com> <17036431-01E6-44C5-802F-8194294CF1F7@me.com> Message-ID: Who to cheer for? Er?nobody. I?m 100% with Barry and Alan on this! I did 21 years of Wimbledon - because the money was good - and 10 years of Masterchef (not so good), and loathe both of them now. Boring same-old, same-old. And don?t even get me started on the Repair Shop! Cheers, (yes, happily living up to the well-earned name: ?Mr Grumpy?!) Nick Ware - sent from my iPad On 30 Jun 2023, at 16:31, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: ? I have always wanted the BBC to have a dedicated sports channel. Then they would be able to televise whatever sporting events they fancy and I could avoid all of it. Although I have little doubt that if there were a BBC Sport channel, they would still try to spread all those tedious sporting events over every other channel too. My particular gripe is how events like snooker or tennis can massively overrun their scheduled transmission time while a programme which I wanted to see is cancelled. That cancelled show isn?t even available on iPlayer. Nor is there a caption explaining whether the scheduled programme has been cancelled, or will follow. Sports production teams don?t merely overrun while the event overruns. After it has finished, the pundits have to talk about it and they invariably finish by showing a compilation highlights VT of the event. If an event runs over, they should only be allowed to overrun for the remaining duration of that event and then abruptly stop. Most sports fans don?t care what the pundits think and other viewers just want them to shut up, go away and let the scheduled programme start. Other production teams have worked jolly hard to create their programmes which should be being transmitted at that time. Alan On 30 Jun 2023, at 15:56, B Wilkinson via Tech1 wrote: ?Can I cheer for when it is all over. I cannot stand all the groans and grunts from the players. Barry hates tennis! [image.png] Sent from my iPad On 30 Jun 2023, at 14:48, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: ? Wimbledon Tennis once again, but no Federer, no Nadal and no Sue Barker for the interviews. I suppose we still have Murray.... Some years ago, Nigel, cameraman, and I turned up at Eastbourne for HBO or perhaps NBC, and were refused entry, as the Americans hadn't bothered to arrange press coverage. Nigel strolled across the road and knocked on the door of one of the houses opposite, "Can we borrow your front garden?" The couple were delighted (a bundle of petty cash dispensed and they produced two garden chairs and many mugs of tea, plus they had the chance to meet some of the top lady players who were brought over in turn for the interview! (and Sue Barker!) A superb bit of PR on Nigel's part. Pat (who used to project an HD picture on the wall of girlfriend's sitting room for the Men's final, munching a picnic on a rug on the floor) -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 100864 bytes Desc: image.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 100864 bytes Desc: image.png URL: From barry-wilkinson at sky.com Fri Jun 30 13:19:32 2023 From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 19:19:32 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Who to cheer for? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <60206222-2AE2-4034-8087-5F5EB79B435F@sky.com> And don?t get me started on bloody golf. Sunny on the greens but flipping cold and no toilets on the towers. And then golf loonies start climbing the scaffolding of the towers ( designed to take the weight of a cameraman plus camera gear) . All me shots started getting wobbly and I felt very much in danger . Perhaps I should have taken a pee over the edge to encourage the climbers to get down to ground level. Oh yes , and just as we were getting ready to de rig and start the two hundred mile flyer home the golfers decide to draw scores and start all over again! Snooker?..loved hurricane Higgins as he played shots very quickly so matches ended on time?.but there was always a couple who took ages for each shot ,with the same result of not getting home on time. Oh yes?.I remember ? The Good Old Days? in the stinky theatre in Leeds. Nightmare scenario was if Ken Dodd was performing , he always overran by what seemed like hours. Still much better for me than ? Goin? down t?pit ? where I grew up I suppose. Sent from my iPad > On 30 Jun 2023, at 18:51, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > ? Who to cheer for? Er?nobody. I?m 100% with Barry and Alan on this! I did 21 years of Wimbledon - because the money was good - and 10 years of Masterchef (not so good), and loathe both of them now. Boring same-old, same-old. And don?t even get me started on the Repair Shop! > Cheers, (yes, happily living up to the well-earned name: ?Mr Grumpy?!) > Nick Ware - sent from my iPad > >>> On 30 Jun 2023, at 16:31, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>> >> ? >> I have always wanted the BBC to have a dedicated sports channel. Then they would be able to televise whatever sporting events they fancy and I could avoid all of it. Although I have little doubt that if there were a BBC Sport channel, they would still try to spread all those tedious sporting events over every other channel too. >> >> My particular gripe is how events like snooker or tennis can massively overrun their scheduled transmission time while a programme which I wanted to see is cancelled. That cancelled show isn?t even available on iPlayer. Nor is there a caption explaining whether the scheduled programme has been cancelled, or will follow. >> >> Sports production teams don?t merely overrun while the event overruns. After it has finished, the pundits have to talk about it and they invariably finish by showing a compilation highlights VT of the event. If an event runs over, they should only be allowed to overrun for the remaining duration of that event and then abruptly stop. Most sports fans don?t care what the pundits think and other viewers just want them to shut up, go away and let the scheduled programme start. Other production teams have worked jolly hard to create their programmes which should be being transmitted at that time. >> >> Alan >> >> >> >> >>> On 30 Jun 2023, at 15:56, B Wilkinson via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?Can I cheer for when it is all over. I cannot stand all the groans and grunts from the players. Barry hates tennis! >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 30 Jun 2023, at 14:48, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> ? >>>> Wimbledon Tennis once again, >>>> but no Federer, no Nadal and no Sue Barker for the interviews. >>>> >>>> I suppose we still have Murray.... >>>> >>>> Some years ago, Nigel, cameraman, and I turned up at Eastbourne for HBO or perhaps NBC, and were refused entry, >>>> as the Americans hadn't bothered to arrange press coverage. >>>> >>>> Nigel strolled across the road and knocked on the door of one of the houses opposite, >>>> "Can we borrow your front garden?" >>>> The couple were delighted (a bundle of petty cash dispensed and they produced two garden chairs and >>>> many mugs of tea, plus they had the chance to meet some of the top lady players who were brought >>>> over in turn for the interview! (and Sue Barker!) >>>> A superb bit of PR on Nigel's part. >>>> >>>> Pat >>>> (who used to project an HD picture on the wall of girlfriend's sitting room for the Men's final, >>>> munching a picnic on a rug on the floor) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alawrance1 at me.com Fri Jun 30 15:35:40 2023 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2023 21:35:40 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Who to cheer for? In-Reply-To: <60206222-2AE2-4034-8087-5F5EB79B435F@sky.com> References: <60206222-2AE2-4034-8087-5F5EB79B435F@sky.com> Message-ID: <9CC53E3D-0E1D-4EA2-AC87-23DBFC7E2E3F@me.com> I'm naturally un-sporty as well, and in TVR days remember Sunday afternoon cricket for some league or other on BBC2 Talk about losing the will to live on a Paddock dolly on the boundary.... sun in the Vf, couldn't see sod all.... Dying for a pee, too. Alasdair Lawrance Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > On 30 Jun 2023, at 19:20, B Wilkinson via Tech1 wrote: > > ?And don?t get me started on bloody golf. Sunny on the greens but flipping cold and no toilets on the towers. And then golf loonies start climbing the scaffolding of the towers ( designed to take the weight of a cameraman plus camera gear) . All me shots started getting wobbly and I felt very much in danger . Perhaps I should have taken a pee over the edge to encourage the climbers to get down to ground level. > Oh yes , and just as we were getting ready to de rig and start the two hundred mile flyer home the golfers decide to draw scores and start all over again! > Snooker?..loved hurricane Higgins as he played shots very quickly so matches ended on time?.but there was always a couple who took ages for each shot ,with the same result of not getting home on time. > Oh yes?.I remember ? The Good Old Days? in the stinky theatre in Leeds. Nightmare scenario was if Ken Dodd was performing , he always overran by what seemed like hours. > Still much better for me than ? Goin? down t?pit ? where I grew up I suppose. > > Sent from my iPad > >>> On 30 Jun 2023, at 18:51, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >>> >> ? Who to cheer for? Er?nobody. I?m 100% with Barry and Alan on this! I did 21 years of Wimbledon - because the money was good - and 10 years of Masterchef (not so good), and loathe both of them now. Boring same-old, same-old. And don?t even get me started on the Repair Shop! >> Cheers, (yes, happily living up to the well-earned name: ?Mr Grumpy?!) >> Nick Ware - sent from my iPad >> >>> On 30 Jun 2023, at 16:31, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> I have always wanted the BBC to have a dedicated sports channel. Then they would be able to televise whatever sporting events they fancy and I could avoid all of it. Although I have little doubt that if there were a BBC Sport channel, they would still try to spread all those tedious sporting events over every other channel too. >>> >>> My particular gripe is how events like snooker or tennis can massively overrun their scheduled transmission time while a programme which I wanted to see is cancelled. That cancelled show isn?t even available on iPlayer. Nor is there a caption explaining whether the scheduled programme has been cancelled, or will follow. >>> >>> Sports production teams don?t merely overrun while the event overruns. After it has finished, the pundits have to talk about it and they invariably finish by showing a compilation highlights VT of the event. If an event runs over, they should only be allowed to overrun for the remaining duration of that event and then abruptly stop. Most sports fans don?t care what the pundits think and other viewers just want them to shut up, go away and let the scheduled programme start. Other production teams have worked jolly hard to create their programmes which should be being transmitted at that time. >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 30 Jun 2023, at 15:56, B Wilkinson via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Can I cheer for when it is all over. I cannot stand all the groans and grunts from the players. Barry hates tennis! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>> On 30 Jun 2023, at 14:48, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> Wimbledon Tennis once again, >>>>> but no Federer, no Nadal and no Sue Barker for the interviews. >>>>> >>>>> I suppose we still have Murray.... >>>>> >>>>> Some years ago, Nigel, cameraman, and I turned up at Eastbourne for HBO or perhaps NBC, and were refused entry, >>>>> as the Americans hadn't bothered to arrange press coverage. >>>>> >>>>> Nigel strolled across the road and knocked on the door of one of the houses opposite, >>>>> "Can we borrow your front garden?" >>>>> The couple were delighted (a bundle of petty cash dispensed and they produced two garden chairs and >>>>> many mugs of tea, plus they had the chance to meet some of the top lady players who were brought >>>>> over in turn for the interview! (and Sue Barker!) >>>>> A superb bit of PR on Nigel's part. >>>>> >>>>> Pat >>>>> (who used to project an HD picture on the wall of girlfriend's sitting room for the Men's final, >>>>> munching a picnic on a rug on the floor) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: