From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Sep 1 06:17:29 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 12:17:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] David Dimbleby's Days That Shook the BBC In-Reply-To: <16144af2-da23-c637-3ad5-033d34dfd324@gmail.com> References: <16144af2-da23-c637-3ad5-033d34dfd324@gmail.com> Message-ID: *The Independence of the BBC* I just wondered if anyone had views on the construction of the film. (Bernie could take the stance that in commenting, we are guilty of bringing politics into this forum, but...) DD showed clips of senior Government people/spokespersons including a former PM or two, angrily refuting that censoring the BBC was not occurring, then showing clips that proved the exact opposite. Clever? Or intimating that somewhere, there's a whole bunch of liars! It's a given, that if a country is overrun, then the first target in order to gain control of the population is the broadcaster, since that's the way to spread propaganda to the masses. During WW2, the Germans would slaughter anyone caught listening to the BBC. Maybe the BBC motto should be modified: Delete: 'Peace' Insert 'Truth' Pat H On 01/09/2022 11:58, Alec Bray wrote: > > Hi Pat, > > Watched it last night as we had recorded it.? Very interesting... > > BR Alec > > -- > ======= > > Alec Bray > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Thu Sep 1 07:24:51 2022 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2022 13:24:51 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] David Dimbleby's Days That Shook the BBC In-Reply-To: References: <16144af2-da23-c637-3ad5-033d34dfd324@gmail.com> Message-ID: Amused to catch a glimpse of myself in it! ? Graeme Wall > On 1 Sep 2022, at 12:17, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > The Independence of the BBC > > I just wondered if anyone had views on the construction of the film. > > (Bernie could take the stance that in commenting, we are guilty of bringing politics into this forum, but...) > > DD showed clips of senior Government people/spokespersons including a former PM or two, > angrily refuting that censoring the BBC was not occurring, then showing clips that proved the exact opposite. Clever? > > Or intimating that somewhere, there's a whole bunch of liars! > > It's a given, that if a country is overrun, then the first target in order to gain control of the population is the broadcaster, > since that's the way to spread propaganda to the masses. > > During WW2, the Germans would slaughter anyone caught listening to the BBC. > > Maybe the BBC motto should be modified: > > Delete: 'Peace' > > Insert 'Truth' > > Pat H > > On 01/09/2022 11:58, Alec Bray wrote: >> Hi Pat, >> >> Watched it last night as we had recorded it. Very interesting... >> >> BR Alec >> >> -- >> ======= >> >> Alec Bray >> >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From pat.heigham at amps.net Mon Sep 5 06:38:14 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 12:38:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Ye Monday Moan! Message-ID: <4776d1e3-cf34-db93-627d-7cb2bbe453c0@amps.net> There's been a fair bit of criticism about the cost of living rising. A small incident - I do not smoke but like chocolate. My favourite is Cadburys Dairy Milk Caramel. This 120gm bar retailed at aound ?1.95. Both my usual retailers do not have it at present, just an alternative of Caramilk a 90gm bar but at the same original price. Profiteering, methinks. However, I have ordered the original from Amazon at the better price of ?1 ! How to reduce the cost of living? Scrap VAT - yes, there's no VAT on food, but remember the argument that went on about Jaffa cakes - is it a biscuit, or is a cake? No it's SuperJaffa! VAT is a drag on folks - OK the Gov might have to increase Income Tax to compensate, but that impinges on folks who actually pay Tax. How to catch the Tax dodgers who stash their profits in the Caymans, Luxembourg Panama etc? Don't know. Pat H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Mon Sep 5 07:49:50 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 13:49:50 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Ye Monday Moan! In-Reply-To: <11AE680E-1455-45B7-B7A5-CE1C5C05C21A@sky.com> References: <4776d1e3-cf34-db93-627d-7cb2bbe453c0@amps.net> <11AE680E-1455-45B7-B7A5-CE1C5C05C21A@sky.com> Message-ID: <08d103ae-535a-d9c9-2066-27964ba8d5c2@amps.net> I rather like that idea. But rather than hanging (UK version), or Madame Guillotine (French) I could suggest, as I shot frequently at Bisley, a test for the sentenced felon to run along the targets of the Centry range (100), with the best shots in the country, at 600 yards to have a pop. If they managed to survive until the last, then they could walk free. (There is a moving target range at Bisley but it's quite slow and at 1000 yards). Maybe that? could be a Saturday evening TV prog. 'Run For Your Life' Perhaps Ant & Dec to present and having a go at the run!Maybe blanks for that as they would be needed for the following week. Pat On 05/09/2022 12:44, B Wilkinson wrote: > May I suggest the death penalty for tax dodgers? That would make a lot > of ?Personalities? think twice. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Mon Sep 5 08:04:43 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 13:04:43 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Ye Monday Moan! In-Reply-To: <4776d1e3-cf34-db93-627d-7cb2bbe453c0@amps.net> References: <4776d1e3-cf34-db93-627d-7cb2bbe453c0@amps.net> Message-ID: Have you tried M&S Salted Caramel Cookies? Give ?em a go - I guarantee you?ll become addicted! Cadbury?s isn?t what it used to be since becoming American owned. But nevertheless, we too, get through a shocking amount of it. Cheers N. Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad On 5 Sep 2022, at 13:38, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: ? There's been a fair bit of criticism about the cost of living rising. A small incident - I do not smoke but like chocolate. My favourite is Cadburys Dairy Milk Caramel. This 120gm bar retailed at aound ?1.95. Both my usual retailers do not have it at present, just an alternative of Caramilk a 90gm bar but at the same original price. Profiteering, methinks. However, I have ordered the original from Amazon at the better price of ?1 ! How to reduce the cost of living? Scrap VAT - yes, there's no VAT on food, but remember the argument that went on about Jaffa cakes - is it a biscuit, or is a cake? No it's SuperJaffa! VAT is a drag on folks - OK the Gov might have to increase Income Tax to compensate, but that impinges on folks who actually pay Tax. How to catch the Tax dodgers who stash their profits in the Caymans, Luxembourg Panama etc? Don't know. Pat H -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Mon Sep 5 09:18:20 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 15:18:20 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] CDM - Chocolate Deception Moaning Message-ID: <6C178154-86C0-4657-B538-A8F052E1C6D0@me.com> Cadburys often try to deny it but there is a noticeable difference between CDM made for the British market and the version sold in Ireland. Whenever we visit my cousin in Ireland, my wife always makes a point of stocking up on Irish CDM. There?s a further difference between the British version and the ones sold in Europe or Canada. The pecking order in our house is Irish > British > European > Canadian. Even within the U.K. the formula for CDM isn?t consistent. A couple of years ago we were given two Cadbury?s Advent calendars, both labelled as Cadbury?s Dairy Milk. There was a really obvious difference both in taste and mouth feel between the two. Careful examination of the labelling revealed that while both were made in Britain, cocoa solids were stated as 1% less in one version, so there was clearly a difference in the formula. ( Note for mathematicians - actual figure was something like 19% vs 20%, so although there was a difference of one in the percentages, there would have been something like a 5% difference in the proportions ). I find it bizarre that a company would compromise it?s iconic product in that way. No doubt it?s down to the takeover by Mondelez, but it does seem short sighted. Shrinkflation is happening widely now. Smaller amounts of chocolate are being made to resemble bigger bars. The bars have got thinner, the squares are smaller but further apart, while the corners are radiussed instead of angular. There was a certain amount of schadenfreude when Toblerone ( owned by Mondelez ) took Poundland to court after Poundland launched a clone bar called ?Twin Peaks?. Toblerone claimed that their bars had a distinctive shape and were defined by that shape. Poundland argued that Toblerone sold a bar called Toblerone which had much bigger gaps betweeen the triangles ( obviously using less chocolate ) and therefore the original shape did not define the product. The judge stated that he was minded to agree with that argument. Mondelez decided to settle out of court and Poundland could sell those bars provided that the packaging was a different colour. If Mondelez had left the bars as they were, they would probably have won that case. As Shakespeare wrote in Hamlet ?For ?tis the sport to have the engineer Hoist with his owne petard?. A quotation which I have been known to throw towards the guys in the dark end of the scanner if they have been caught out by being a little bit too clever. Alan > On 5 Sep 2022, at 14:05, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > ? Have you tried M&S Salted Caramel Cookies? Give ?em a go - I guarantee you?ll become addicted! > Cadbury?s isn?t what it used to be since becoming American owned. But nevertheless, we too, get through a shocking amount of it. > Cheers > N. > Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad > >>> On 5 Sep 2022, at 13:38, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >>> >> ? >> There's been a fair bit of criticism about the cost of living rising. >> >> A small incident - I do not smoke but like chocolate. >> >> My favourite is Cadburys Dairy Milk Caramel. >> >> This 120gm bar retailed at aound ?1.95. >> >> Both my usual retailers do not have it at present, just an alternative >> of Caramilk a 90gm bar but at the same original price. >> >> Profiteering, methinks. >> >> However, I have ordered the original from Amazon at the better price of ?1 ! >> >> How to reduce the cost of living? >> >> Scrap VAT - yes, there's no VAT on food, but remember the argument that >> went on about Jaffa cakes - is it a biscuit, or is a cake? No it's SuperJaffa! >> >> VAT is a drag on folks - OK the Gov might have to increase Income Tax >> to compensate, but that impinges on folks who actually pay Tax. >> >> How to catch the Tax dodgers who stash their profits in the Caymans, Luxembourg >> Panama etc? >> >> Don't know. >> >> Pat H >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at paulholman.com Mon Sep 5 09:43:21 2022 From: paul at paulholman.com (Paul Holman) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 15:43:21 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Please remove me from this list Message-ID: From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com Mon Sep 5 10:47:11 2022 From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 16:47:11 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Ye Monday Moan! In-Reply-To: <4776d1e3-cf34-db93-627d-7cb2bbe453c0@amps.net> References: <4776d1e3-cf34-db93-627d-7cb2bbe453c0@amps.net> Message-ID: <58FB8E9A-93C8-480F-8580-186BFDB94CA2@btinternet.com> Pat?? Hands off the Caymans! Nothing wrong in investing in a British Overseas Territory! Barry. On 5 Sep 2022, at 12:38, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > There's been a fair bit of criticism about the cost of living rising. > > A small incident - I do not smoke but like chocolate. > > My favourite is Cadburys Dairy Milk Caramel. > > This 120gm bar retailed at aound ?1.95. > > Both my usual retailers do not have it at present, just an alternative > of Caramilk a 90gm bar but at the same original price. > > Profiteering, methinks. > > However, I have ordered the original from Amazon at the better price of ?1 ! > > How to reduce the cost of living? > > Scrap VAT - yes, there's no VAT on food, but remember the argument that > went on about Jaffa cakes - is it a biscuit, or is a cake? No it's SuperJaffa! > > VAT is a drag on folks - OK the Gov might have to increase Income Tax > to compensate, but that impinges on folks who actually pay Tax. > > How to catch the Tax dodgers who stash their profits in the Caymans, Luxembourg > Panama etc? > > Don't know. > > Pat H > > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BB and ANH Little Cayman.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 760936 bytes Desc: not available URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Mon Sep 5 12:19:26 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 18:19:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Lights out. Message-ID: When watching TV after dark, I see out of the window overlooking the other side of the road. Can see four houses. And noticed they are all now dark. A few weeks ago they'd have had hall and maybe outside lights left on. But definitely signs of life in them. From keithwicksuk at gmail.com Tue Sep 6 13:46:27 2022 From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 19:46:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Ye Monday Moan! In-Reply-To: References: <4776d1e3-cf34-db93-627d-7cb2bbe453c0@amps.net> Message-ID: I can't remember exactly when I went right off Cadbury's, but it was long ago. Galaxy is so much better, I think. Their large bar is ?1.50 in Asda, up from ?1 a short time ago. But the main point of my message is to say that, for many years, confectionary has been different in different parts of the UK. In general, it is sweeter in the north. Beer, too, is different. It is gassier in the north. I don't know whether that's down to different formulas or different serving techniques. When I complained in one northern pub, thinking I had been served a very short pint, the barman remarked that I must be from the south. "That's how we like it in these parts!" KW On Mon, 5 Sept 2022 at 14:05, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > Have you tried M&S Salted Caramel Cookies? Give ?em a go - I guarantee > you?ll become addicted! > Cadbury?s isn?t what it used to be since becoming American owned. But > nevertheless, we too, get through a shocking amount of it. > Cheers > N. > Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad > > On 5 Sep 2022, at 13:38, Pat Heigham via Tech1 > wrote: > > ? > > There's been a fair bit of criticism about the cost of living rising. > > A small incident - I do not smoke but like chocolate. > > My favourite is Cadburys Dairy Milk Caramel. > > This 120gm bar retailed at aound ?1.95. > > Both my usual retailers do not have it at present, just an alternative > of Caramilk a 90gm bar but at the same original price. > > Profiteering, methinks. > > However, I have ordered the original from Amazon at the better price of ?1 > ! > > How to reduce the cost of living? > > Scrap VAT - yes, there's no VAT on food, but remember the argument that > went on about Jaffa cakes - is it a biscuit, or is a cake? No it's > SuperJaffa! > > VAT is a drag on folks - OK the Gov might have to increase Income Tax > to compensate, but that impinges on folks who actually pay Tax. > > How to catch the Tax dodgers who stash their profits in the Caymans, > Luxembourg > Panama etc? > > Don't know. > > Pat H > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From keithwicksuk at gmail.com Tue Sep 6 13:53:36 2022 From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 19:53:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Ye Monday Moan! In-Reply-To: References: <4776d1e3-cf34-db93-627d-7cb2bbe453c0@amps.net> Message-ID: I meant to add that the northern beer had a very large head. And that reminded me that a relative ordered a beer in the States. On placing the beer on the counter, the barman asked if he liked a good head. My relative nodded. So the barman reached for an aerosol can and sprayed a thick head on the beer! I don't know whether he was charged extra for that. KW On Tue, 6 Sept 2022 at 19:46, Keith Wicks wrote: > I can't remember exactly when I went right off Cadbury's, but it was long > ago. Galaxy is so much better, I think. Their large bar is ?1.50 in Asda, > up from ?1 a short time ago. But the main point of my message is to say > that, for many years, confectionary has been different in different parts > of the UK. In general, it is sweeter in the north. Beer, too, is different. > It is gassier in the north. I don't know whether that's down to different > formulas or different serving techniques. When I complained in one northern > pub, thinking I had been served a very short pint, the barman remarked that > I must be from the south. "That's how we like it in these parts!" > KW > > > On Mon, 5 Sept 2022 at 14:05, Nick Ware via Tech1 > wrote: > >> Have you tried M&S Salted Caramel Cookies? Give ?em a go - I guarantee >> you?ll become addicted! >> Cadbury?s isn?t what it used to be since becoming American owned. But >> nevertheless, we too, get through a shocking amount of it. >> Cheers >> N. >> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad >> >> On 5 Sep 2022, at 13:38, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? >> >> There's been a fair bit of criticism about the cost of living rising. >> >> A small incident - I do not smoke but like chocolate. >> >> My favourite is Cadburys Dairy Milk Caramel. >> >> This 120gm bar retailed at aound ?1.95. >> >> Both my usual retailers do not have it at present, just an alternative >> of Caramilk a 90gm bar but at the same original price. >> >> Profiteering, methinks. >> >> However, I have ordered the original from Amazon at the better price of >> ?1 ! >> >> How to reduce the cost of living? >> >> Scrap VAT - yes, there's no VAT on food, but remember the argument that >> went on about Jaffa cakes - is it a biscuit, or is a cake? No it's >> SuperJaffa! >> >> VAT is a drag on folks - OK the Gov might have to increase Income Tax >> to compensate, but that impinges on folks who actually pay Tax. >> >> How to catch the Tax dodgers who stash their profits in the Caymans, >> Luxembourg >> Panama etc? >> >> Don't know. >> >> Pat H >> >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Sep 7 05:18:57 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 11:18:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Ye Monday Moan! In-Reply-To: References: <4776d1e3-cf34-db93-627d-7cb2bbe453c0@amps.net> Message-ID: I found my favourite Caramel via Amazon. Ordered 5, which apparently gave me a further 5% discount. That brought the price down to 95p a bar, rather than 1.95 at Co-Op or M & S. Free one day delivery with Prime, which I subscribe to as there are plenty of times I use Amazon. Pat On 06/09/2022 19:46, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote: > I can't remember exactly when I went right off Cadbury's, but it was > long ago. Galaxy is so much better, I think. Their large bar is ?1.50 > in Asda, up from ?1 a short time ago. But the main point of my message > is to say that, for many years, confectionary has been different in > different parts of the UK. In general, it is sweeter in the north. > > > > On Mon, 5 Sept 2022 at 14:05, Nick Ware via Tech1 > wrote: > > Have you tried M&S Salted Caramel Cookies? Give ?em a go - I > guarantee you?ll become addicted! > Cadbury?s isn?t what it used to be since becoming American owned. > But nevertheless, we too, get through a shocking amount of it. > Cheers > N. > Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 05:24:52 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 11:24:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Ye Monday Moan! In-Reply-To: References: <4776d1e3-cf34-db93-627d-7cb2bbe453c0@amps.net> Message-ID: Must admit I was expecting a rather rude reply when the barman asked if he liked good head. On 06/09/2022 19:53, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote: > I meant to add that the northern beer had a very large head. And that > reminded me that a relative ordered a beer in the States. On placing the > beer on the counter, the barman asked if he liked a good head. My > relative nodded. So the barman reached for an aerosol can and sprayed a > thick head on the beer! I don't know whether he was charged extra for that. > KW > > > On Tue, 6 Sept 2022 at 19:46, Keith Wicks > wrote: > > I can't remember exactly when I went right off Cadbury's, but it was > long ago. Galaxy is so much better, I think. Their large bar is > ?1.50 in Asda, up from ?1 a short time ago. But the main point of my > message is to say that, for many years, confectionary has been > different in different parts of the UK. In general, it is sweeter in > the north. Beer, too, is different. It is gassier in the north. I > don't know whether that's down to different formulas or different > serving techniques. When I complained in one northern pub, thinking > I had been served a very short pint, the barman remarked that I must > be from the south. "That's how we like it in these parts!" > KW > > > On Mon, 5 Sept 2022 at 14:05, Nick Ware via Tech1 > > wrote: > > Have you tried M&S Salted Caramel Cookies? Give ?em a go - I > guarantee you?ll become addicted! > Cadbury?s isn?t what it used to be since becoming American > owned. But nevertheless, we too, get through a shocking amount > of it. > Cheers > N. > Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad > >> On 5 Sep 2022, at 13:38, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >> > wrote: >> >> ? >> >> There's been a fair bit of criticism about the cost of living >> rising. >> >> A small incident - I do not smoke but like chocolate. >> >> My favourite is Cadburys Dairy Milk Caramel. >> >> This 120gm bar retailed at aound ?1.95. >> >> Both my usual retailers do not have it at present, just an >> alternative >> of Caramilk a 90gm bar but at the same original price. >> >> Profiteering, methinks. >> >> However, I have ordered the original from Amazon at the better >> price of ?1 ! >> >> How to reduce the cost of living? >> >> Scrap VAT - yes, there's no VAT on food, but remember the >> argument that >> went on about Jaffa cakes - is it a biscuit, or is a cake? No >> it's SuperJaffa! >> >> VAT is a drag on folks - OK the Gov might have to increase >> Income Tax >> to compensate, but that impinges on folks who actually pay Tax. >> >> How to catch the Tax dodgers who stash their profits in the >> Caymans, Luxembourg >> Panama etc? >> >> Don't know. >> >> Pat H >> >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Sep 7 08:13:46 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 14:13:46 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Ye Monday Moan! In-Reply-To: References: <4776d1e3-cf34-db93-627d-7cb2bbe453c0@amps.net> Message-ID: <72d238f6-f61a-a32b-a3ab-f4456bc2cb57@amps.net> I admit to reading that the same way as you have done, Dave! Once, when working on a feature, shooting in Paris with a part American crew, lunch was provided, and the portions were served out for helping oneself. One American took too many slices of beef leaving a shortfall for everyone else, and when he passed his plate for vegs, I cried out: "Quick, grab his meat!" The Yanks fell about as that is their slang word for something completely different! Cheers Pat H On 07/09/2022 11:24, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > Must admit I was expecting a rather rude reply when the barman asked > if he liked good head. > > On 06/09/2022 19:53, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote: >> I meant to add that the northern beer had a very large head. And that >> reminded me that a relative ordered a beer in the States. On placing >> the beer on the counter, the barman asked if he liked a good head. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 08:43:54 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 14:43:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Smart meters - again Message-ID: <2aa8095e-da53-b40b-a637-0baef79edac4@gmail.com> Some may remember part one of this saga, where the chap couldn't change either of them. Part two yesterday. Different chap and seemed to know his job rather better and changed them quickly. My old electric meter was sort of sandwiched between the CU and alarm panel. The new smart meter too large to fit there - except it can be split into two, with a link cable between them. And the meter part the same size as the old. The gas meter - which the other chap said was too awkwardly placed to replace on his own, no problem with this guy. (It was awkward to read too - why I wanted it changed) But. And there's always a but. The IHD (the remote screen that shows how much you've used and what it cost, etc) only show gas. And electricity is the obvious one to make instant economies with. And the new meter can't be read without a torch due to a very dull LCD screen. The LCD on the old, just fine. So spent this morning trying to contact either my energy supplier (Shell) or SMS who supply the meter. Can only email them on an approved subject from a list. Chat times out after an hour of no reply. Phone of course big queue for a human - but promised to phone back. 4 hours ago. Sometimes wish they'd look up what smart actually means. From graeme.wall at icloud.com Wed Sep 7 08:49:19 2022 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 14:49:19 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Smart meters - again In-Reply-To: <2aa8095e-da53-b40b-a637-0baef79edac4@gmail.com> References: <2aa8095e-da53-b40b-a637-0baef79edac4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <657DD019-7649-438F-839C-465FD6A432AE@icloud.com> > On 7 Sep 2022, at 14:43, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > Some may remember part one of this saga, where the chap couldn't change either of them. > > Part two yesterday. Different chap and seemed to know his job rather better and changed them quickly. My old electric meter was sort of sandwiched between the CU and alarm panel. The new smart meter too large to fit there - except it can be split into two, with a link cable between them. And the meter part the same size as the old. > > The gas meter - which the other chap said was too awkwardly placed to replace on his own, no problem with this guy. (It was awkward to read too - why I wanted it changed) > > But. And there's always a but. The IHD (the remote screen that shows how much you've used and what it cost, etc) only show gas. And electricity is the obvious one to make instant economies with. And the new meter can't be read without a torch due to a very dull LCD screen. The LCD on the old, just fine. > > So spent this morning trying to contact either my energy supplier (Shell) or SMS who supply the meter. Can only email them on an approved subject from a list. Chat times out after an hour of no reply. Phone of course big queue for a human - but promised to phone back. 4 hours ago. > > Sometimes wish they'd look up what smart actually means. > My IHD packed up within a couple of months of the smart meter being fitted, been relegated to the back of a cupboard and forgotten about. Never found it of much use even when it worked, told me boiling a kettle used a lot of electricity, big deal. ? Graeme Wall From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Sep 7 09:05:48 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 15:05:48 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Smart meters - again In-Reply-To: <2aa8095e-da53-b40b-a637-0baef79edac4@gmail.com> References: <2aa8095e-da53-b40b-a637-0baef79edac4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1d2b8eeb-244a-744a-f236-cd512e4834a0@amps.net> I have a smart Electricity meter - no problems. But I have been resisting having a smart gas meter. Because, the flat underneath mine had a replacement gas meter (well before smart) and the supply mains branches off and runs from that up to my flat. The fitter wrenched it around so much that he caused a gas leak into my hall cupboard - could be disaster. Plus I have tailored shelves to fit around meter - a major job to dismantle them, so no thanks! I think staff have got a PhD in thinking up situations that do not have any resemblance to your particular query and does not get listed on the menus. Maybe Ms. Truss has recuited them for her new cabinet! Pat H On 07/09/2022 14:43, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > Some may remember part one of this saga, where the chap couldn't > change either of them. > > Part two yesterday. Different chap and seemed to know his job rather > better and changed them quickly. My old electric meter was sort of > sandwiched between the CU and alarm panel. The new smart meter too > large to fit there - except it can be split into two, with a link > cable between them. And the meter part the same size as the old. > > The gas meter - which the other chap said was too awkwardly placed to > replace on his own, no problem with this guy. (It was awkward to read > too - why I wanted it changed) > > But. And there's always a but. The IHD (the remote screen that shows > how much you've used and what it cost, etc) only show gas. And > electricity is the obvious one to make instant economies with. And the > new meter can't be read without a torch due to a very dull LCD screen. > The LCD on the old, just fine. > > So spent this morning trying to contact either my energy supplier > (Shell) or SMS who supply the meter. Can only email them on an > approved subject from a list. Chat times out after an hour of no > reply. Phone of course big queue for a human - but promised to phone > back. 4 hours ago. > > Sometimes wish they'd look up what smart actually means. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 09:12:34 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 15:12:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Smart meters - again In-Reply-To: <1d2b8eeb-244a-744a-f236-cd512e4834a0@amps.net> References: <2aa8095e-da53-b40b-a637-0baef79edac4@gmail.com> <1d2b8eeb-244a-744a-f236-cd512e4834a0@amps.net> Message-ID: <1f7606ab-b8eb-8a58-5f64-6fd3ca8a6d15@gmail.com> My gas meter is/was in the coal cellar. Mounted sideways on, so you had to lean over to read it - and use a torch. Usually getting dirt on your clothes. Turing it through 90 degrees would have made it easy to read. But of course such things are always installed for the convenience of those who install them. Not the end user. But perhaps I'm odd. Expecting things I've paid for - even indirectly - to function correctly. On 07/09/2022 15:05, Pat Heigham wrote: > I have a smart Electricity meter - no problems. But I have been > resisting having a smart gas meter. > > Because, the flat underneath mine had a replacement gas meter (well > before smart) and the supply mains branches off and runs from that > up to my flat. The fitter wrenched it around so much that he caused a > gas leak into my hall cupboard - could be disaster. > > Plus I have tailored shelves to fit around meter - a major job to > dismantle them, so no thanks! > > I think staff have got a PhD in thinking up situations that do not have > any resemblance to your particular query and does not get listed > on the menus. Maybe Ms. Truss has recuited them for her new cabinet! > > Pat H > > > On 07/09/2022 14:43, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> Some may remember part one of this saga, where the chap couldn't >> change either of them. >> >> Part two yesterday. Different chap and seemed to know his job rather >> better and changed them quickly. My old electric meter was sort of >> sandwiched between the CU and alarm panel. The new smart meter too >> large to fit there - except it can be split into two, with a link >> cable between them. And the meter part the same size as the old. >> >> The gas meter - which the other chap said was too awkwardly placed to >> replace on his own, no problem with this guy. (It was awkward to read >> too - why I wanted it changed) >> >> But. And there's always a but. The IHD (the remote screen that shows >> how much you've used and what it cost, etc) only show gas. And >> electricity is the obvious one to make instant economies with. And the >> new meter can't be read without a torch due to a very dull LCD screen. >> The LCD on the old, just fine. >> >> So spent this morning trying to contact either my energy supplier >> (Shell) or SMS who supply the meter. Can only email them on an >> approved subject from a list. Chat times out after an hour of no >> reply. Phone of course big queue for a human - but promised to phone >> back. 4 hours ago. >> >> Sometimes wish they'd look up what smart actually means. >> From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Sep 7 09:25:36 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 15:25:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Smart meters - again In-Reply-To: <1f7606ab-b8eb-8a58-5f64-6fd3ca8a6d15@gmail.com> References: <2aa8095e-da53-b40b-a637-0baef79edac4@gmail.com> <1d2b8eeb-244a-744a-f236-cd512e4834a0@amps.net> <1f7606ab-b8eb-8a58-5f64-6fd3ca8a6d15@gmail.com> Message-ID: Quite agree. My meters are in a hall cupboard, which is just the other side of the wall separating from a communal landing/staircase. Would have been a great idea to have had a glassed window set in the wall and both meters mounted to allow the dials to be read from outside. Oh, far too clever, Pat! On 07/09/2022 15:12, Dave Plowman wrote: > My gas meter is/was in the coal cellar. Mounted sideways on, so you > had to lean over to read it - and use a torch. Usually getting dirt on > your clothes. Turing it through 90 degrees would have made it easy to > read. But of course such things are always installed for the > convenience of those who install them. Not the end user. > > But perhaps I'm odd. Expecting things I've paid for - even indirectly > - to function correctly. > > On 07/09/2022 15:05, Pat Heigham wrote: >> I have a smart Electricity meter - no problems. But I have been >> resisting having a smart gas meter. >> >> Because, the flat underneath mine had a replacement gas meter (well >> before smart) and the supply mains branches off and runs from that >> up to my flat. The fitter wrenched it around so much that he caused a >> gas leak into my hall cupboard - could be disaster. >> >> Plus I have tailored shelves to fit around meter - a major job to >> dismantle them, so no thanks! >> >> I think staff have got a PhD in thinking up situations that do not >> have any resemblance to your particular query and does not get listed >> on the menus. Maybe Ms. Truss has recuited them for her new cabinet! >> >> Pat H >> >> >> On 07/09/2022 14:43, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>> Some may remember part one of this saga, where the chap couldn't >>> change either of them. >>> >>> Part two yesterday. Different chap and seemed to know his job rather >>> better and changed them quickly. My old electric meter was sort of >>> sandwiched between the CU and alarm panel. The new smart meter too >>> large to fit there - except it can be split into two, with a link >>> cable between them. And the meter part the same size as the old. >>> >>> The gas meter - which the other chap said was too awkwardly placed >>> to replace on his own, no problem with this guy. (It was awkward to >>> read too - why I wanted it changed) >>> >>> But. And there's always a but. The IHD (the remote screen that shows >>> how much you've used and what it cost, etc) only show gas. And >>> electricity is the obvious one to make instant economies with. And >>> the new meter can't be read without a torch due to a very dull LCD >>> screen. The LCD on the old, just fine. >>> >>> So spent this morning trying to contact either my energy supplier >>> (Shell) or SMS who supply the meter. Can only email them on an >>> approved subject from a list. Chat times out after an hour of no >>> reply. Phone of course big queue for a human - but promised to phone >>> back. 4 hours ago. >>> >>> Sometimes wish they'd look up what smart actually means. >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Wed Sep 7 10:04:04 2022 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 16:04:04 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Smart meters - again In-Reply-To: <1f7606ab-b8eb-8a58-5f64-6fd3ca8a6d15@gmail.com> References: <2aa8095e-da53-b40b-a637-0baef79edac4@gmail.com> <1d2b8eeb-244a-744a-f236-cd512e4834a0@amps.net> <1f7606ab-b8eb-8a58-5f64-6fd3ca8a6d15@gmail.com> Message-ID: <832984AF-71ED-4836-87E5-FE3CC8084593@icloud.com> Of course, when originally installed, meters were not meant to be read by the householder but by an official meter reader so convenience wasn?t a concern. > On 7 Sep 2022, at 15:12, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > My gas meter is/was in the coal cellar. Mounted sideways on, so you had to lean over to read it - and use a torch. Usually getting dirt on your clothes. Turing it through 90 degrees would have made it easy to read. But of course such things are always installed for the convenience of those who install them. Not the end user. > > But perhaps I'm odd. Expecting things I've paid for - even indirectly - to function correctly. > > On 07/09/2022 15:05, Pat Heigham wrote: >> I have a smart Electricity meter - no problems. But I have been resisting having a smart gas meter. >> Because, the flat underneath mine had a replacement gas meter (well before smart) and the supply mains branches off and runs from that >> up to my flat. The fitter wrenched it around so much that he caused a gas leak into my hall cupboard - could be disaster. >> Plus I have tailored shelves to fit around meter - a major job to dismantle them, so no thanks! >> I think staff have got a PhD in thinking up situations that do not have any resemblance to your particular query and does not get listed >> on the menus. Maybe Ms. Truss has recuited them for her new cabinet! >> Pat H >> On 07/09/2022 14:43, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>> Some may remember part one of this saga, where the chap couldn't change either of them. >>> >>> Part two yesterday. Different chap and seemed to know his job rather better and changed them quickly. My old electric meter was sort of sandwiched between the CU and alarm panel. The new smart meter too large to fit there - except it can be split into two, with a link cable between them. And the meter part the same size as the old. >>> >>> The gas meter - which the other chap said was too awkwardly placed to replace on his own, no problem with this guy. (It was awkward to read too - why I wanted it changed) >>> >>> But. And there's always a but. The IHD (the remote screen that shows how much you've used and what it cost, etc) only show gas. And electricity is the obvious one to make instant economies with. And the new meter can't be read without a torch due to a very dull LCD screen. The LCD on the old, just fine. >>> >>> So spent this morning trying to contact either my energy supplier (Shell) or SMS who supply the meter. Can only email them on an approved subject from a list. Chat times out after an hour of no reply. Phone of course big queue for a human - but promised to phone back. 4 hours ago. >>> >>> Sometimes wish they'd look up what smart actually means. >>> > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ? Graeme Wall From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 10:16:37 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 16:16:37 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Smart meters - again In-Reply-To: <832984AF-71ED-4836-87E5-FE3CC8084593@icloud.com> References: <2aa8095e-da53-b40b-a637-0baef79edac4@gmail.com> <1d2b8eeb-244a-744a-f236-cd512e4834a0@amps.net> <1f7606ab-b8eb-8a58-5f64-6fd3ca8a6d15@gmail.com> <832984AF-71ED-4836-87E5-FE3CC8084593@icloud.com> Message-ID: But they changed that. My electric meter was originally in the cellar too. But was moved to the top of the cellar stairs. Doubt the previous house owner would have had any reason to pay for that. And of course many have been moved to outside the house in those awful looking boxes. On 07/09/2022 16:04, Graeme Wall wrote: > Of course, when originally installed, meters were not meant to be read by the householder but by an official meter reader so convenience wasn?t a concern. > >> On 7 Sep 2022, at 15:12, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> My gas meter is/was in the coal cellar. Mounted sideways on, so you had to lean over to read it - and use a torch. Usually getting dirt on your clothes. Turing it through 90 degrees would have made it easy to read. But of course such things are always installed for the convenience of those who install them. Not the end user. >> >> But perhaps I'm odd. Expecting things I've paid for - even indirectly - to function correctly. >> >> On 07/09/2022 15:05, Pat Heigham wrote: >>> I have a smart Electricity meter - no problems. But I have been resisting having a smart gas meter. >>> Because, the flat underneath mine had a replacement gas meter (well before smart) and the supply mains branches off and runs from that >>> up to my flat. The fitter wrenched it around so much that he caused a gas leak into my hall cupboard - could be disaster. >>> Plus I have tailored shelves to fit around meter - a major job to dismantle them, so no thanks! >>> I think staff have got a PhD in thinking up situations that do not have any resemblance to your particular query and does not get listed >>> on the menus. Maybe Ms. Truss has recuited them for her new cabinet! >>> Pat H >>> On 07/09/2022 14:43, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>> Some may remember part one of this saga, where the chap couldn't change either of them. >>>> >>>> Part two yesterday. Different chap and seemed to know his job rather better and changed them quickly. My old electric meter was sort of sandwiched between the CU and alarm panel. The new smart meter too large to fit there - except it can be split into two, with a link cable between them. And the meter part the same size as the old. >>>> >>>> The gas meter - which the other chap said was too awkwardly placed to replace on his own, no problem with this guy. (It was awkward to read too - why I wanted it changed) >>>> >>>> But. And there's always a but. The IHD (the remote screen that shows how much you've used and what it cost, etc) only show gas. And electricity is the obvious one to make instant economies with. And the new meter can't be read without a torch due to a very dull LCD screen. The LCD on the old, just fine. >>>> >>>> So spent this morning trying to contact either my energy supplier (Shell) or SMS who supply the meter. Can only email them on an approved subject from a list. Chat times out after an hour of no reply. Phone of course big queue for a human - but promised to phone back. 4 hours ago. >>>> >>>> Sometimes wish they'd look up what smart actually means. >>>> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > ? > Graeme Wall > > From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Sep 7 10:18:12 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 16:18:12 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Smart meters - again In-Reply-To: <832984AF-71ED-4836-87E5-FE3CC8084593@icloud.com> References: <2aa8095e-da53-b40b-a637-0baef79edac4@gmail.com> <1d2b8eeb-244a-744a-f236-cd512e4834a0@amps.net> <1f7606ab-b8eb-8a58-5f64-6fd3ca8a6d15@gmail.com> <832984AF-71ED-4836-87E5-FE3CC8084593@icloud.com> Message-ID: <097d0d41-1579-dd58-6970-c96c75279708@amps.net> It's still an inconvenience for the householder to have to let the blighter in! In my complex of three blocks of flats, many of the meters are outside in utility cupboards, but it's not uniform. Pat H On 07/09/2022 16:04, Graeme Wall wrote: > Of course, when originally installed, meters were not meant to be read by the householder but by an official meter reader so convenience wasn?t a concern. > >> On 7 Sep 2022, at 15:12, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> My gas meter is/was in the coal cellar. Mounted sideways on, so you had to lean over to read it - and use a torch. Usually getting dirt on your clothes. Turing it through 90 degrees would have made it easy to read. But of course such things are always installed for the convenience of those who install them. Not the end user. >> >> But perhaps I'm odd. Expecting things I've paid for - even indirectly - to function correctly. >> >> On 07/09/2022 15:05, Pat Heigham wrote: >>> I have a smart Electricity meter - no problems. But I have been resisting having a smart gas meter. >>> Because, the flat underneath mine had a replacement gas meter (well before smart) and the supply mains branches off and runs from that >>> up to my flat. The fitter wrenched it around so much that he caused a gas leak into my hall cupboard - could be disaster. >>> Plus I have tailored shelves to fit around meter - a major job to dismantle them, so no thanks! >>> I think staff have got a PhD in thinking up situations that do not have any resemblance to your particular query and does not get listed >>> on the menus. Maybe Ms. Truss has recuited them for her new cabinet! >>> Pat H >>> On 07/09/2022 14:43, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>> Some may remember part one of this saga, where the chap couldn't change either of them. >>>> >>>> Part two yesterday. Different chap and seemed to know his job rather better and changed them quickly. My old electric meter was sort of sandwiched between the CU and alarm panel. The new smart meter too large to fit there - except it can be split into two, with a link cable between them. And the meter part the same size as the old. >>>> >>>> The gas meter - which the other chap said was too awkwardly placed to replace on his own, no problem with this guy. (It was awkward to read too - why I wanted it changed) >>>> >>>> But. And there's always a but. The IHD (the remote screen that shows how much you've used and what it cost, etc) only show gas. And electricity is the obvious one to make instant economies with. And the new meter can't be read without a torch due to a very dull LCD screen. The LCD on the old, just fine. >>>> >>>> So spent this morning trying to contact either my energy supplier (Shell) or SMS who supply the meter. Can only email them on an approved subject from a list. Chat times out after an hour of no reply. Phone of course big queue for a human - but promised to phone back. 4 hours ago. >>>> >>>> Sometimes wish they'd look up what smart actually means. >>>> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > ? > Graeme Wall > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Sep 7 10:26:43 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 16:26:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Smart meters - again In-Reply-To: References: <2aa8095e-da53-b40b-a637-0baef79edac4@gmail.com> <1d2b8eeb-244a-744a-f236-cd512e4834a0@amps.net> <1f7606ab-b8eb-8a58-5f64-6fd3ca8a6d15@gmail.com> <832984AF-71ED-4836-87E5-FE3CC8084593@icloud.com> Message-ID: Let's be thankful for electricity - without that we all would not have had gainful employment! I still marvel at an aged aunt (now long deceased) who as a child, only had gas lighting in the house, but lived long enough to watch /on television, man walking on the moon!/ Such is the speed of technology. Pat H On 07/09/2022 16:16, Dave Plowman wrote: > But they changed that. My electric meter was originally in the cellar > too. But was moved to the top of the cellar stairs. Doubt the previous > house owner would have had any reason to pay for that. And of course > many have been moved to outside the house in those awful looking boxes. > > On 07/09/2022 16:04, Graeme Wall wrote: >> Of course, when originally installed, meters were not meant to be >> read by the householder but by an official meter reader so >> convenience wasn?t a concern. >> >>> On 7 Sep 2022, at 15:12, Dave Plowman via Tech1 >>> wrote: >>> >>> My gas meter is/was in the coal cellar. Mounted sideways on, so you >>> had to lean over to read it - and use a torch. Usually getting dirt >>> on your clothes. Turing it through 90 degrees would have made it >>> easy to read. But of course such things are always installed for the >>> convenience of those who install them. Not the end user. >>> >>> But perhaps I'm odd. Expecting things I've paid for - even >>> indirectly - to function correctly. >>> >>> On 07/09/2022 15:05, Pat Heigham wrote: >>>> I have a smart Electricity meter - no problems. But I have been >>>> resisting having a smart gas meter. >>>> Because, the flat underneath mine had a replacement gas meter (well >>>> before smart) and the supply mains branches off and runs from that >>>> up to my flat. The fitter wrenched it around so much that he caused >>>> a gas leak into my hall cupboard - could be disaster. >>>> Plus I have tailored shelves to fit around meter - a major job to >>>> dismantle them, so no thanks! >>>> I think staff have got a PhD in thinking up situations that do not >>>> have any resemblance to your particular query and does not get listed >>>> on the menus. Maybe Ms. Truss has recuited them for her new cabinet! >>>> Pat H >>>> On 07/09/2022 14:43, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> Some may remember part one of this saga, where the chap couldn't >>>>> change either of them. >>>>> >>>>> Part two yesterday. Different chap and seemed to know his job >>>>> rather better and changed them quickly. My old electric meter was >>>>> sort of sandwiched between the CU and alarm panel. The new smart >>>>> meter too large to fit there - except it can be split into two, >>>>> with a link cable between them. And the meter part the same size >>>>> as the old. >>>>> >>>>> The gas meter - which the other chap said was too awkwardly placed >>>>> to replace on his own, no problem with this guy. (It was awkward >>>>> to read too - why I wanted it changed) >>>>> >>>>> But. And there's always a but. The IHD (the remote screen that >>>>> shows how much you've used and what it cost, etc) only show gas. >>>>> And electricity is the obvious one to make instant economies with. >>>>> And the new meter can't be read without a torch due to a very dull >>>>> LCD screen. The LCD on the old, just fine. >>>>> >>>>> So spent this morning trying to contact either my energy supplier >>>>> (Shell) or SMS who supply the meter. Can only email them on an >>>>> approved subject from a list. Chat times out after an hour of no >>>>> reply. Phone of course big queue for a human - but promised to >>>>> phone back. 4 hours ago. >>>>> >>>>> Sometimes wish they'd look up what smart actually means. >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> ? >> Graeme Wall >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Wed Sep 7 10:29:05 2022 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 16:29:05 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Smart meters - again In-Reply-To: References: <2aa8095e-da53-b40b-a637-0baef79edac4@gmail.com> <1d2b8eeb-244a-744a-f236-cd512e4834a0@amps.net> <1f7606ab-b8eb-8a58-5f64-6fd3ca8a6d15@gmail.com> <832984AF-71ED-4836-87E5-FE3CC8084593@icloud.com> Message-ID: My grandfather watched Queen Victoria?s funeral procession live and the moon landings! > On 7 Sep 2022, at 16:26, Pat Heigham wrote: > > Let's be thankful for electricity - without that we all would not have had gainful employment! > > I still marvel at an aged aunt (now long deceased) who as a child, only had gas lighting in the house, but lived long enough to watch on television, man walking on the moon! > > Such is the speed of technology. > > Pat H > > On 07/09/2022 16:16, Dave Plowman wrote: >> But they changed that. My electric meter was originally in the cellar too. But was moved to the top of the cellar stairs. Doubt the previous house owner would have had any reason to pay for that. And of course many have been moved to outside the house in those awful looking boxes. >> >> On 07/09/2022 16:04, Graeme Wall wrote: >>> Of course, when originally installed, meters were not meant to be read by the householder but by an official meter reader so convenience wasn?t a concern. >>> >>>> On 7 Sep 2022, at 15:12, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> My gas meter is/was in the coal cellar. Mounted sideways on, so you had to lean over to read it - and use a torch. Usually getting dirt on your clothes. Turing it through 90 degrees would have made it easy to read. But of course such things are always installed for the convenience of those who install them. Not the end user. >>>> >>>> But perhaps I'm odd. Expecting things I've paid for - even indirectly - to function correctly. >>>> >>>> On 07/09/2022 15:05, Pat Heigham wrote: >>>>> I have a smart Electricity meter - no problems. But I have been resisting having a smart gas meter. >>>>> Because, the flat underneath mine had a replacement gas meter (well before smart) and the supply mains branches off and runs from that >>>>> up to my flat. The fitter wrenched it around so much that he caused a gas leak into my hall cupboard - could be disaster. >>>>> Plus I have tailored shelves to fit around meter - a major job to dismantle them, so no thanks! >>>>> I think staff have got a PhD in thinking up situations that do not have any resemblance to your particular query and does not get listed >>>>> on the menus. Maybe Ms. Truss has recuited them for her new cabinet! >>>>> Pat H >>>>> On 07/09/2022 14:43, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> Some may remember part one of this saga, where the chap couldn't change either of them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Part two yesterday. Different chap and seemed to know his job rather better and changed them quickly. My old electric meter was sort of sandwiched between the CU and alarm panel. The new smart meter too large to fit there - except it can be split into two, with a link cable between them. And the meter part the same size as the old. >>>>>> >>>>>> The gas meter - which the other chap said was too awkwardly placed to replace on his own, no problem with this guy. (It was awkward to read too - why I wanted it changed) >>>>>> >>>>>> But. And there's always a but. The IHD (the remote screen that shows how much you've used and what it cost, etc) only show gas. And electricity is the obvious one to make instant economies with. And the new meter can't be read without a torch due to a very dull LCD screen. The LCD on the old, just fine. >>>>>> >>>>>> So spent this morning trying to contact either my energy supplier (Shell) or SMS who supply the meter. Can only email them on an approved subject from a list. Chat times out after an hour of no reply. Phone of course big queue for a human - but promised to phone back. 4 hours ago. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sometimes wish they'd look up what smart actually means. >>>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >>> ? >>> Graeme Wall >>> >>> ? Graeme Wall From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Sep 7 10:47:12 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 16:47:12 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Smart meters - again In-Reply-To: References: <2aa8095e-da53-b40b-a637-0baef79edac4@gmail.com> <1d2b8eeb-244a-744a-f236-cd512e4834a0@amps.net> <1f7606ab-b8eb-8a58-5f64-6fd3ca8a6d15@gmail.com> <832984AF-71ED-4836-87E5-FE3CC8084593@icloud.com> Message-ID: <238a67a9-27ce-ca3b-5646-36b3d9b2f8a5@amps.net> Queen Vic's funeral was filmed by British Pathe in 1901. Was he a cameraman? I'm organising a bit of a dinner party for my 80th around December. When it comes to the loyal toast, wonder whether it will be to the Queen or a King? Pat H On 07/09/2022 16:29, Graeme Wall wrote: > My grandfather watched Queen Victoria?s funeral procession live and the moon landings! > >> On 7 Sep 2022, at 16:26, Pat Heigham wrote: >> >> Let's be thankful for electricity - without that we all would not have had gainful employment! >> >> I still marvel at an aged aunt (now long deceased) who as a child, only had gas lighting in the house, but lived long enough to watch on television, man walking on the moon! >> >> Such is the speed of technology. >> >> Pat H >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Wed Sep 7 11:30:53 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 16:30:53 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Smart meters - again Message-ID: ? ? ?Now here?s an idea: How about if Dave P and Pat H move in together? That would save 50% of their meter anxieties and 50% of their energy costs. And hey, Monday groans could go on all week! N x Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad > On 7 Sep 2022, at 16:13, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > ?My gas meter is/was in the coal cellar. Mounted sideways on, so you had to lean over to read it - and use a torch. Usually getting dirt on your clothes. Turing it through 90 degrees would have made it easy to read. But of course such things are always installed for the convenience of those who install them. Not the end user. > > But perhaps I'm odd. Expecting things I've paid for - even indirectly - to function correctly. > > On 07/09/2022 15:05, Pat Heigham wrote: >> I have a smart Electricity meter - no problems. But I have been resisting having a smart gas meter. >> Because, the flat underneath mine had a replacement gas meter (well before smart) and the supply mains branches off and runs from that >> up to my flat. The fitter wrenched it around so much that he caused a gas leak into my hall cupboard - could be disaster. >> Plus I have tailored shelves to fit around meter - a major job to dismantle them, so no thanks! >> I think staff have got a PhD in thinking up situations that do not have any resemblance to your particular query and does not get listed >> on the menus. Maybe Ms. Truss has recuited them for her new cabinet! >> Pat H >> On 07/09/2022 14:43, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>> Some may remember part one of this saga, where the chap couldn't change either of them. >>> Part two yesterday. Different chap and seemed to know his job rather better and changed them quickly. My old electric meter was sort of sandwiched between the CU and alarm panel. The new smart meter too large to fit there - except it can be split into two, with a link cable between them. And the meter part the same size as the old. >>> The gas meter - which the other chap said was too awkwardly placed to replace on his own, no problem with this guy. (It was awkward to read too - why I wanted it changed) >>> But. And there's always a but. The IHD (the remote screen that shows how much you've used and what it cost, etc) only show gas. And electricity is the obvious one to make instant economies with. And the new meter can't be read without a torch due to a very dull LCD screen. The LCD on the old, just fine. >>> So spent this morning trying to contact either my energy supplier (Shell) or SMS who supply the meter. Can only email them on an approved subject from a list. Chat times out after an hour of no reply. Phone of course big queue for a human - but promised to phone back. 4 hours ago. >>> Sometimes wish they'd look up what smart actually means. > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From saranewman at hotmail.com Wed Sep 7 11:51:15 2022 From: saranewman at hotmail.com (Sara Newman) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 16:51:15 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Smart meters - again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67D3140E-15F4-4564-B2F3-B9B091C19C1F@hotmail.com> Hi, We live in a dip and so no viable phone signal. I have had three visits from smart meter installers as they do not believe us when we have told them. We are telephoned at least every 8 weeks asking if we would like one. Finally a few weeks ago I was telephoned by someone asking why we did not have one and I was able to explain and we are now off the list Yiphee! Sara > On 7 Sep 2022, at 17:30, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > > ? > ? > ?Now here?s an idea: How about if Dave P and Pat H move in together? That would save 50% of their meter anxieties and 50% of their energy costs. And hey, Monday groans could go on all week! > N x > Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad > >> On 7 Sep 2022, at 16:13, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> ?My gas meter is/was in the coal cellar. Mounted sideways on, so you had to lean over to read it - and use a torch. Usually getting dirt on your clothes. Turing it through 90 degrees would have made it easy to read. But of course such things are always installed for the convenience of those who install them. Not the end user. >> >> But perhaps I'm odd. Expecting things I've paid for - even indirectly - to function correctly. >> >> On 07/09/2022 15:05, Pat Heigham wrote: >>> I have a smart Electricity meter - no problems. But I have been resisting having a smart gas meter. >>> Because, the flat underneath mine had a replacement gas meter (well before smart) and the supply mains branches off and runs from that >>> up to my flat. The fitter wrenched it around so much that he caused a gas leak into my hall cupboard - could be disaster. >>> Plus I have tailored shelves to fit around meter - a major job to dismantle them, so no thanks! >>> I think staff have got a PhD in thinking up situations that do not have any resemblance to your particular query and does not get listed >>> on the menus. Maybe Ms. Truss has recuited them for her new cabinet! >>> Pat H >>> On 07/09/2022 14:43, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>> Some may remember part one of this saga, where the chap couldn't change either of them. >>>> Part two yesterday. Different chap and seemed to know his job rather better and changed them quickly. My old electric meter was sort of sandwiched between the CU and alarm panel. The new smart meter too large to fit there - except it can be split into two, with a link cable between them. And the meter part the same size as the old. >>>> The gas meter - which the other chap said was too awkwardly placed to replace on his own, no problem with this guy. (It was awkward to read too - why I wanted it changed) >>>> But. And there's always a but. The IHD (the remote screen that shows how much you've used and what it cost, etc) only show gas. And electricity is the obvious one to make instant economies with. And the new meter can't be read without a torch due to a very dull LCD screen. The LCD on the old, just fine. >>>> So spent this morning trying to contact either my energy supplier (Shell) or SMS who supply the meter. Can only email them on an approved subject from a list. Chat times out after an hour of no reply. Phone of course big queue for a human - but promised to phone back. 4 hours ago. >>>> Sometimes wish they'd look up what smart actually means. >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftech-ops.co.uk%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftech1_tech-ops.co.uk&data=05%7C01%7C%7Ccbda134b55f2493cf24408da90ee69ec%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637981650918864591%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JcActHqLaCuuNGp8Ke0hHxDdsoe2%2B3by6tnuKGrvnyQ%3D&reserved=0 > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftech-ops.co.uk%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftech1_tech-ops.co.uk&data=05%7C01%7C%7Ccbda134b55f2493cf24408da90ee69ec%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637981650918864591%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JcActHqLaCuuNGp8Ke0hHxDdsoe2%2B3by6tnuKGrvnyQ%3D&reserved=0 From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Wed Sep 7 12:47:30 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2022 18:47:30 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Smart meters - again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ulcer playing up again, Nick? On 07/09/2022 17:30, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > ? > ?Now here?s an idea: How about if Dave P and Pat H move in together? That would save 50% of their meter anxieties and 50% of their energy costs. And hey, Monday groans could go on all week! > N x > Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad > >> On 7 Sep 2022, at 16:13, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> ?My gas meter is/was in the coal cellar. Mounted sideways on, so you had to lean over to read it - and use a torch. Usually getting dirt on your clothes. Turing it through 90 degrees would have made it easy to read. But of course such things are always installed for the convenience of those who install them. Not the end user. >> >> But perhaps I'm odd. Expecting things I've paid for - even indirectly - to function correctly. >> >> On 07/09/2022 15:05, Pat Heigham wrote: >>> I have a smart Electricity meter - no problems. But I have been resisting having a smart gas meter. >>> Because, the flat underneath mine had a replacement gas meter (well before smart) and the supply mains branches off and runs from that >>> up to my flat. The fitter wrenched it around so much that he caused a gas leak into my hall cupboard - could be disaster. >>> Plus I have tailored shelves to fit around meter - a major job to dismantle them, so no thanks! >>> I think staff have got a PhD in thinking up situations that do not have any resemblance to your particular query and does not get listed >>> on the menus. Maybe Ms. Truss has recuited them for her new cabinet! >>> Pat H >>> On 07/09/2022 14:43, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>> Some may remember part one of this saga, where the chap couldn't change either of them. >>>> Part two yesterday. Different chap and seemed to know his job rather better and changed them quickly. My old electric meter was sort of sandwiched between the CU and alarm panel. The new smart meter too large to fit there - except it can be split into two, with a link cable between them. And the meter part the same size as the old. >>>> The gas meter - which the other chap said was too awkwardly placed to replace on his own, no problem with this guy. (It was awkward to read too - why I wanted it changed) >>>> But. And there's always a but. The IHD (the remote screen that shows how much you've used and what it cost, etc) only show gas. And electricity is the obvious one to make instant economies with. And the new meter can't be read without a torch due to a very dull LCD screen. The LCD on the old, just fine. >>>> So spent this morning trying to contact either my energy supplier (Shell) or SMS who supply the meter. Can only email them on an approved subject from a list. Chat times out after an hour of no reply. Phone of course big queue for a human - but promised to phone back. 4 hours ago. >>>> Sometimes wish they'd look up what smart actually means. >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk Thu Sep 8 03:40:27 2022 From: robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk (Robert Miles) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 09:40:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC Archives Message-ID: <000601d8c35e$a5b45270$f11cf750$@soundsuper.co.uk> Not sure whether BBC Archives are closing their transfer services but there is an auction (Phase 1) of a great deal of equipment coming up at the end of the month. www.ppauctions.com/page/16/sales Rob Miles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Thu Sep 8 04:46:39 2022 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 10:46:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC Archives In-Reply-To: <000601d8c35e$a5b45270$f11cf750$@soundsuper.co.uk> References: <000601d8c35e$a5b45270$f11cf750$@soundsuper.co.uk> Message-ID: <9F9292DB07A4468ABE8B2B91086EB49B@Gigabyte> Presumably linked to the possible closing of Ex Windmill Road group now camped behind the A40 in Greenford or Perivale as that lease is up for closure. Mike From: Robert Miles via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2022 9:40 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] BBC Archives Not sure whether BBC Archives are closing their transfer services but there is an auction (Phase 1) of a great deal of equipment coming up at the end of the month. www.ppauctions.com/page/16/sales Rob Miles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hughsnape at talktalk.net Thu Sep 8 05:47:43 2022 From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 11:47:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC Archives In-Reply-To: <000601d8c35e$a5b45270$f11cf750$@soundsuper.co.uk> References: <000601d8c35e$a5b45270$f11cf750$@soundsuper.co.uk> Message-ID: <616F43C5-0120-4AEA-9F92-A3EF7D944AA1@talktalk.net> I wonder what the Nagras will fetch? Hugh > On 8 Sep 2022, at 09:40, Robert Miles via Tech1 wrote: > > Not sure whether BBC Archives are closing their transfer services but there is an auction (Phase 1) of a great deal of equipment coming up at the end of the month. > www.ppauctions.com/page/16/sales > > Rob Miles > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Sep 8 06:02:32 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 12:02:32 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC Archives In-Reply-To: <616F43C5-0120-4AEA-9F92-A3EF7D944AA1@talktalk.net> References: <000601d8c35e$a5b45270$f11cf750$@soundsuper.co.uk> <616F43C5-0120-4AEA-9F92-A3EF7D944AA1@talktalk.net> Message-ID: I don't know that model - are they the 'T' ones? Still got my IV-S in immaculate condition with the NAB spool adaptor. Pat H On 08/09/2022 11:47, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: > I wonder what the Nagras will fetch? > > Hugh > >> On 8 Sep 2022, at 09:40, Robert Miles via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> Not sure whether BBC Archives are closing their transfer services but >> there is an auction (Phase 1) of a great deal of equipment coming up >> at the end of the month. >> www.ppauctions.com/page/16/sales >> >> Rob Miles >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Thu Sep 8 06:55:09 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 12:55:09 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC Archives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nagra 1033 is the posh name for the classic Nagra IV Alan > On 8 Sep 2022, at 12:03, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > I don't know that model - are they the 'T' ones? Still got my IV-S in immaculate condition with the NAB spool adaptor. > > Pat H > > On 08/09/2022 11:47, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: >> I wonder what the Nagras will fetch? >> >> Hugh >> >>> On 8 Sep 2022, at 09:40, Robert Miles via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> Not sure whether BBC Archives are closing their transfer services but there is an auction (Phase 1) of a great deal of equipment coming up at the end of the month. >>> www.ppauctions.com/page/16/sales >>> >>> Rob Miles >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Thu Sep 8 11:01:16 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 16:01:16 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] BBC Archives In-Reply-To: <616F43C5-0120-4AEA-9F92-A3EF7D944AA1@talktalk.net> References: <000601d8c35e$a5b45270$f11cf750$@soundsuper.co.uk> <616F43C5-0120-4AEA-9F92-A3EF7D944AA1@talktalk.net> Message-ID: I sold my 4s and IS, plus QGB adaptor back in 1986 when the Sony PCM2000 DAT arrived on the scene and pretty much replaced 1/4? tape overnight. All three of those covered the ?4200 cost of the PCM2000 and ?999 for Noriyuki timecode generator. Couldn?t bring myself to part with the cute little Nagra SNN though, so it?s still doing sterling service as an ornament and paperweight! Today, Analogue Nagras are pretty common, so the secondhand value isn?t wonderful. On the other hand I?ve seen a QGB NAB adaptor sell for nearly $7000. Maybe time to sell, Pat! Still got the PCM2000 and it works perfectly. Not built to last like a Nagra, we all thought at the time! N. Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad On 8 Sep 2022, at 12:48, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: ? I wonder what the Nagras will fetch? Hugh On 8 Sep 2022, at 09:40, Robert Miles via Tech1 > wrote: Not sure whether BBC Archives are closing their transfer services but there is an auction (Phase 1) of a great deal of equipment coming up at the end of the month. www.ppauctions.com/page/16/sales Rob Miles -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From relong at btinternet.com Thu Sep 8 12:36:43 2022 From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 18:36:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC Archives In-Reply-To: References: <000601d8c35e$a5b45270$f11cf750$@soundsuper.co.uk> <616F43C5-0120-4AEA-9F92-A3EF7D944AA1@talktalk.net> Message-ID: I sold my Nagra IS and IV for 1800 quid each 2 yrs ago I kept my Nagra IVS TC and my Sonosax mixer They might go soon ,leaving me with a Nagra VI and a Cooper mixer plus a SD702. Still got 10 MKH capacitor mics, will keep 2 x MKH 800 and 2 X MKH 30. I ve also got 90 rolls of 5? Agfa Per 368 tape still in boxes, unused. Probably Funky Junk it, EBay is not what it was ?. Roger > On 8 Sep 2022, at 17:01, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > I sold my 4s and IS, plus QGB adaptor back in 1986 when the Sony PCM2000 DAT arrived on the scene and pretty much replaced 1/4? tape overnight. All three of those covered the ?4200 cost of the PCM2000 and ?999 for Noriyuki timecode generator. > Couldn?t bring myself to part with the cute little Nagra SNN though, so it?s still doing sterling service as an ornament and paperweight! > Today, Analogue Nagras are pretty common, so the secondhand value isn?t wonderful. On the other hand I?ve seen a QGB NAB adaptor sell for nearly $7000. Maybe time to sell, Pat! > Still got the PCM2000 and it works perfectly. Not built to last like a Nagra, we all thought at the time! > N. > Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad > >> On 8 Sep 2022, at 12:48, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ? I wonder what the Nagras will fetch? >> >> Hugh >> >>> On 8 Sep 2022, at 09:40, Robert Miles via Tech1 > wrote: >>> >>> Not sure whether BBC Archives are closing their transfer services but there is an auction (Phase 1) of a great deal of equipment coming up at the end of the month. >>> www.ppauctions.com/page/16/sales >>> >>> Rob Miles >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 01:31:13 2022 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 07:31:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Second Elizabethan Era Message-ID: I wonder what future generations will think of our wonderful Elizabethan era? There has beeb so much change in all areas of life and work, in medicine and in finance, in farming, space exploration, physics.... For me, the Elizabethan age has been defined by the move from mechanical systems (or at best electromechanical systems) to fully electronic systems. On the railways, fully mechanical signal and point operation and interlocking has been replaced by colour lights, in cab display, computer control. What about in our industry? Moving needles gooving on rotating shellac disks have given way to tape recorders and then to solid state memory chips. The old mechanically swung about Mole cranes have been replaced by fully remote operated "technocranes", driven by preprogrammed routines stored on computers. Zooming can be done fully electronically - no need for glass elements moving backwards and forwards driven by cables or servos: and now, since it is easy to strip a foreground from a background using AI techniques, tracking could be done electronically - strip the foreground, differentially enlarge the background and resuprimpose. All it needs is fast processing! I'm only looking in from the outside. I guess many of you can offer better examples of the change from mechanical based systems to electronic based systems (just thought of another: Inlay in the 1950s and 60s). It is a great sadness that Queen Elizabeth has died, she has defined so many aspects of our lives - from Coronation gifts we got as children to the recent Ma'amalade sandwiches - but I wonder if you have stories which show the transition from mechanical systems to electronic or which define, for you, the Second Elizabethan Era. Best regards Alec Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Sep 9 02:53:42 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 08:53:42 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Second Elizabethan Era In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <050facf2-9ee3-22ec-1fc1-2c0a28a08d2a@amps.net> As the Royal Mail is switching to bar-coded postage stamps to avoid loss of revenue by people stockpiling from one year to the next to save on the annual price increases, one can exchange 'old' stamps for new*, but I wonder if the new ones will have the KIng's Head depicted (you know, that well-known pub!). (* but not at Post Offices which would be logical, no - one has to send them in by post!) I was interested last night on TV - BBC was broadcasting extended News on 1 & 2, while several channels were suspended. UK TV ran several scheduled programmes, but without commercials, showing just a station logo with a daft electronic audio, in the gap. It hit home at just how long the ad breaks are! I guess the OB crews are going to be mighty busy in the next few months - a State Funeral and a Coronation! Pat H On 09/09/2022 07:31, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: > I wonder what future generations will think of our wonderful > Elizabethan era?? There has beeb so much change in all areas of life > and work, in medicine and in finance, in farming, space exploration, > physics.... > > For me, the Elizabethan age has been defined by the move from > mechanical systems (or at best electromechanical systems) to fully > electronic systems. > I'm only looking in from the outside.? I guess many of you can offer > better examples of the change from mechanical based systems to > electronic based systems > > Best regards Alec > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Sep 9 03:05:53 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 09:05:53 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol Message-ID: <176b63c7-125f-f7c0-4a4e-74f745473011@amps.net> A thought - I am no historian, but now that our new King is C III R, and no longer Prince of Wales, will William be promoted to the latter? (Does a Prince outrank a Duke?) Pat H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Fri Sep 9 03:09:11 2022 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 09:09:11 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <176b63c7-125f-f7c0-4a4e-74f745473011@amps.net> References: <176b63c7-125f-f7c0-4a4e-74f745473011@amps.net> Message-ID: <430E43A3-9ADC-4307-9472-AEF8E39AB0A0@mac.com> It occurred to me yesterday that C III R has a ring of Star Wars about it - definitely a space-age monarch. Mike G > On 9 Sep 2022, at 09:06, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > A thought - I am no historian, but now that our new King is C III R, and no longer Prince of Wales, will William be promoted to the latter? (Does a Prince outrank a Duke?) > > Pat H > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Fri Sep 9 03:12:43 2022 From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2022 09:12:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <176b63c7-125f-f7c0-4a4e-74f745473011@amps.net> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Fri Sep 9 03:14:31 2022 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 09:14:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <176b63c7-125f-f7c0-4a4e-74f745473011@amps.net> References: <176b63c7-125f-f7c0-4a4e-74f745473011@amps.net> Message-ID: <103CA0D8-EB48-4661-9C39-41866F31DD21@icloud.com> Not automatically Graeme Wall > On 9 Sep 2022, at 09:06, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > A thought - I am no historian, but now that our new King is C III R, and no longer Prince of Wales, will William be promoted to the latter? (Does a Prince outrank a Duke?) > > Pat H > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Sep 9 03:38:20 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 09:38:20 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <430E43A3-9ADC-4307-9472-AEF8E39AB0A0@mac.com> References: <176b63c7-125f-f7c0-4a4e-74f745473011@amps.net> <430E43A3-9ADC-4307-9472-AEF8E39AB0A0@mac.com> Message-ID: You and I think alike, Mike! (C3R) A friend has just told me, that William should now be Duke of Cornwall. For interest, attached is the Royal line, but not updated with Queen Elizabeth II's demise. Pat H On 09/09/2022 09:09, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > It occurred to me yesterday that C III R has a ring of Star Wars about > it - definitely a space-age monarch. > > Mike G > >> On 9 Sep 2022, at 09:06, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? >> >> A thought - I am no historian, but now that our new King is C III R, >> and no longer Prince of Wales, will William be promoted to the >> latter? (Does a Prince outrank a Duke?) >> >> Pat H >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Family tree of the British Royal family.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 92934 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Fri Sep 9 04:07:47 2022 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 10:07:47 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Second Elizabethan Era - ad breaks In-Reply-To: <050facf2-9ee3-22ec-1fc1-2c0a28a08d2a@amps.net> References: <050facf2-9ee3-22ec-1fc1-2c0a28a08d2a@amps.net> Message-ID: <94C4703862D0488885A43CB862B9C87A@Gigabyte> Quote from a Heigham page:- ?I was interested last night on TV - BBC was broadcasting extended News on 1 & 2, while several channels were suspended. UK TV ran several scheduled programmes, but without commercials, showing just a station logo with a daft electronic audio, in the gap. It hit home at just how long the ad breaks are!? That's why so many people now watch catchup or record on their sky/Freeview box and spool through commercial breaks or even record on a puter (as I do often) and spool through. Well at least one can know that most programmes are 43 mins to comply with regulations and the first break is always shorter to make people hang around to see if things get better later. Mike Jordan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Sep 9 04:32:06 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 10:32:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Second Elizabethan Era - ad breaks In-Reply-To: <94C4703862D0488885A43CB862B9C87A@Gigabyte> References: <050facf2-9ee3-22ec-1fc1-2c0a28a08d2a@amps.net> <94C4703862D0488885A43CB862B9C87A@Gigabyte> Message-ID: <7ab36ffd-f78c-125f-0641-02c402f1d080@amps.net> Yep! Most of the extra channels fill up the airtime with repeats - sometimes useful, but the repetition in the same evening gets tiresome. This extends to the ads - seems like the same reel of commercials occurs at each break - boooring! I should not denigrate commercials too much - I made a lot of money filming them! There's one I like: it's for LV Life Insurance, I think. A cute shot of the daughter with a sweet shy smile, and the little lad delighted with his dinosaur toy. Perhaps he's been told he can keep the prop animal he's chosen! My friend in Somerset absolutely /refuse/s to watch any commercial channel. Pity, as he misses some interesting programmes. If I spot a good one, I often record it, edit out the ads on the playlist and send him a DVD. Pat H On 09/09/2022 10:07, Mike Jordan wrote: > Quote from a Heigham page:- > ?I was interested last night on TV - BBC was broadcasting extended > News on 1 & 2, while several channels were suspended. UK TV ran > several scheduled programmes, > but without commercials, showing just a station logo with a daft > electronic audio, in the gap. It hit home at just how long the ad > breaks are!? > That's why so many people now watch catchup or record on their > sky/Freeview box and spool through commercial breaks or even record on > a puter (as I do often) and spool through. > Well at least one can know that most programmes are 43 mins to comply > with regulations and the first break is always shorter to make people > hang around to see if things get better later. > Mike Jordan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com Fri Sep 9 08:18:40 2022 From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 14:18:40 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal tracking shot Message-ID: <6C6EB61D-4217-44DB-8C67-EDF67583B5C9@icloud.com> Great job by whoever was in the helicopter following our new King from Northolt to Buckingham Palace on BBC just now. ?????? Graham Maunder Sent from my iPhone > On 9 Sep 2022, at 10:32, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > Yep! > > Most of the extra channels fill up the airtime with repeats - sometimes useful, but the repetition in the same evening gets tiresome. > > This extends to the ads - seems like the same reel of commercials occurs at each break - boooring! > > I should not denigrate commercials too much - I made a lot of money filming them! > > There's one I like: it's for LV Life Insurance, I think. A cute shot of the daughter with a sweet shy smile, > and the little lad delighted with his dinosaur toy. > > Perhaps he's been told he can keep the prop animal he's chosen! > > My friend in Somerset absolutely refuses to watch any commercial channel. Pity, as he misses some interesting programmes. > If I spot a good one, I often record it, edit out the ads on the playlist and send him a DVD. > > Pat H > >> On 09/09/2022 10:07, Mike Jordan wrote: >> Quote from a Heigham page:- >> >> ?I was interested last night on TV - BBC was broadcasting extended News on 1 & 2, while several channels were suspended. UK TV ran several scheduled programmes, >> but without commercials, showing just a station logo with a daft electronic audio, in the gap. It hit home at just how long the ad breaks are!? >> >> That's why so many people now watch catchup or record on their sky/Freeview box and spool through commercial breaks or even record on a puter (as I do often) and spool through. >> >> Well at least one can know that most programmes are 43 mins to comply with regulations and the first break is always shorter to make people hang around to see if things get better later. >> >> Mike Jordan > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Fri Sep 9 08:45:04 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 14:45:04 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal tracking shot In-Reply-To: <6C6EB61D-4217-44DB-8C67-EDF67583B5C9@icloud.com> References: <6C6EB61D-4217-44DB-8C67-EDF67583B5C9@icloud.com> Message-ID: Indeed Graham and what an organisational triumph of traffic control by the Met. At the palace I think Charles, in greeting the front line of the gathered crowd, came across as a genuinely warm person. Dave Newbitt. From: Graham Maunder via Tech1 Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 2:18 PM To: Tech ops Subject: [Tech1] Royal tracking shot Great job by whoever was in the helicopter following our new King from Northolt to Buckingham Palace on BBC just now. ?????? Graham Maunder Sent from my iPhone On 9 Sep 2022, at 10:32, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: ? Yep! Most of the extra channels fill up the airtime with repeats - sometimes useful, but the repetition in the same evening gets tiresome. This extends to the ads - seems like the same reel of commercials occurs at each break - boooring! I should not denigrate commercials too much - I made a lot of money filming them! There's one I like: it's for LV Life Insurance, I think. A cute shot of the daughter with a sweet shy smile, and the little lad delighted with his dinosaur toy. Perhaps he's been told he can keep the prop animal he's chosen! My friend in Somerset absolutely refuses to watch any commercial channel. Pity, as he misses some interesting programmes. If I spot a good one, I often record it, edit out the ads on the playlist and send him a DVD. Pat H On 09/09/2022 10:07, Mike Jordan wrote: Quote from a Heigham page:- ?I was interested last night on TV - BBC was broadcasting extended News on 1 & 2, while several channels were suspended. UK TV ran several scheduled programmes, but without commercials, showing just a station logo with a daft electronic audio, in the gap. It hit home at just how long the ad breaks are!? That's why so many people now watch catchup or record on their sky/Freeview box and spool through commercial breaks or even record on a puter (as I do often) and spool through. Well at least one can know that most programmes are 43 mins to comply with regulations and the first break is always shorter to make people hang around to see if things get better later. Mike Jordan -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Fri Sep 9 08:50:53 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 14:50:53 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal tracking shot In-Reply-To: References: <6C6EB61D-4217-44DB-8C67-EDF67583B5C9@icloud.com> Message-ID: <6fe31567-e29a-79bd-407a-a67ac60e98d8@chriswoolf.co.uk> On 09/09/2022 14:45, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > ...At the palace I think Charles, in greeting the front line of the > gathered crowd, came across as a genuinely warm person. > He is. My wife has met him a number of times, in the context of food > and organic culture, and has always found him knowledgable, friendly > and very easy to talk to. He's one of the brighter and more principled > Royals - a good successor. Chris Wpplf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoffletch at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 09:04:08 2022 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 15:04:08 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <176b63c7-125f-f7c0-4a4e-74f745473011@amps.net> References: <176b63c7-125f-f7c0-4a4e-74f745473011@amps.net> Message-ID: <7A39C729-C3B8-4D81-A9E3-E8B6EF4B02D5@gmail.com> The Prince of Wales title in the gift of the monarch - not passed on automatically. Charles? Dukedom title is automatically now passed to Prince William. He and Kate become Duke and Duchess of Cornwall and Cambridge. Geoff F > On 9 Sep 2022, at 09:05, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > A thought - I am no historian, but now that our new King is C III R, and no longer Prince of Wales, will William be promoted to the latter? (Does a Prince outrank a Duke?) > > Pat H > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Fri Sep 9 10:08:19 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 16:08:19 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Second Elizabethan Era - ad breaks In-Reply-To: <7ab36ffd-f78c-125f-0641-02c402f1d080@amps.net> References: <7ab36ffd-f78c-125f-0641-02c402f1d080@amps.net> Message-ID: Bearing in mind the code name used for plans related to announcing the death of the Queen, the channel Great Movies is scheduled this evening to show a movie with a somewhat prescient title. I wonder if they will still be transmitting that movie? Alan > On 9 Sep 2022, at 10:32, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > Yep! > > Most of the extra channels fill up the airtime with repeats - sometimes useful, but the repetition in the same evening gets tiresome. > > This extends to the ads - seems like the same reel of commercials occurs at each break - boooring! > > I should not denigrate commercials too much - I made a lot of money filming them! > > There's one I like: it's for LV Life Insurance, I think. A cute shot of the daughter with a sweet shy smile, > and the little lad delighted with his dinosaur toy. > > Perhaps he's been told he can keep the prop animal he's chosen! > > My friend in Somerset absolutely refuses to watch any commercial channel. Pity, as he misses some interesting programmes. > If I spot a good one, I often record it, edit out the ads on the playlist and send him a DVD. > > Pat H > >> On 09/09/2022 10:07, Mike Jordan wrote: >> Quote from a Heigham page:- >> >> ?I was interested last night on TV - BBC was broadcasting extended News on 1 & 2, while several channels were suspended. UK TV ran several scheduled programmes, >> but without commercials, showing just a station logo with a daft electronic audio, in the gap. It hit home at just how long the ad breaks are!? >> >> That's why so many people now watch catchup or record on their sky/Freeview box and spool through commercial breaks or even record on a puter (as I do often) and spool through. >> >> Well at least one can know that most programmes are 43 mins to comply with regulations and the first break is always shorter to make people hang around to see if things get better later. >> >> Mike Jordan > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 216254 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Sep 9 10:16:33 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 16:16:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Second Elizabethan Era - ad breaks In-Reply-To: References: <7ab36ffd-f78c-125f-0641-02c402f1d080@amps.net> Message-ID: London Live were advertising a programme entitled "After You've Gone", that evening but I don't know if it went out. Pat H On 09/09/2022 16:08, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > Bearing in mind the code name used for plans related to announcing the > death of the Queen, the channel ?Great Movies is scheduled this > evening to show a movie with a somewhat prescient title. I wonder if > they will still be transmitting that movie? > > image > > Alan > > > >> On 9 Sep 2022, at 10:32, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? >> >> Yep! >> >> Most of the extra channels fill up the airtime with repeats - >> sometimes useful, but the repetition in the same evening gets tiresome. >> >> This extends to the ads - seems like the same reel of commercials >> occurs at each break - boooring! >> >> I should not denigrate commercials too much - I made a lot of money >> filming them! >> >> There's one I like: it's for LV Life Insurance, I think. A cute shot >> of the daughter with a sweet shy smile, >> and the little lad delighted with his dinosaur toy. >> >> Perhaps he's been told he can keep the prop animal he's chosen! >> >> My friend in Somerset absolutely /refuse/s to watch any commercial >> channel. Pity, as he misses some interesting programmes. >> If I spot a good one, I often record it, edit out the ads on the >> playlist and send him a DVD. >> >> Pat H >> >> On 09/09/2022 10:07, Mike Jordan wrote: >>> Quote from a Heigham page:- >>> ?I was interested last night on TV - BBC was broadcasting extended >>> News on 1 & 2, while several channels were suspended. UK TV ran >>> several scheduled programmes, >>> but without commercials, showing just a station logo with a daft >>> electronic audio, in the gap. It hit home at just how long the ad >>> breaks are!? >>> That's why so many people now watch catchup or record on their >>> sky/Freeview box and spool through commercial breaks or even record >>> on a puter (as I do often) and spool through. >>> Well at least one can know that most programmes are 43 mins to >>> comply with regulations and the first break is always shorter to >>> make people hang around to see if things get better later. >>> Mike Jordan >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 216254 bytes Desc: not available URL: From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 10:16:43 2022 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 16:16:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Second Elizabethan Era In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alec, Thank you for your interesting and alternative reflections looking back at the changes during HM Queen Elizabeth?s long and yes, glorious reign. I?m one of those who can remember singing God Save Our Gracious Queen instead of ?King? for the first time at infant school and not thinking much of it as for me at that tender age, the idea of a having woman as monarch sounded weak compared to a man. Now the matter is reversed, it will take a while to get used to the change and it still seems unreal that she?s gone. I well remember the shellac records and needles you referred to and still have some in their original sleeves in our cellar, including Henry Hall?s The Teddy Bears?s Picnic. I wish I?d kept The Runaway Train which was my favourite and I think it must?ve been among those that my late mother sent to a jumble sale without asking first, after I left home. I no longer have the means of playing them and have offered them to local charity shops but they aren?t interested. For me the big change over the last seventy years has been in the ease of communication. In the fifties my friend and I who lived opposite in our side street, used to chat using toy telephones connected by piece of string stretched across the road from his bedroom window to mine, which was fun more than useful. Nowadays with everyone including children having mobile phones it?s vastly different, though the business of hate messages or sharing of indecent images against the subject?s will is horrifying and I?m glad that I as a parent didn?t have to deal with it. As a lifelong cyclist, the changes there are amazing too with me now benefiting from having an e-bike to assist me up the many hills where I live in the Chilterns. It does resemble the lightweight motor cycles with the battery built sleekly into the down tube where the fuel tanks used to be. You?re right about electronic zooms having replaced optical ones, which I as a purist used to turn away from, but for still photography I?m now among those who benefit from the convenience of using my mobile phone for snapshots when out and about. The quality is amazing, though I don?t understand why the images when transferred to my computer through Photoshop Elements are poster size at 35dpi when a default of 9 x 6in at say, 300dpi would be better for me, Regards, Geoff Hawkes > On 9 Sep 2022, at 07:31, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > I wonder what future generations will think of our wonderful Elizabethan era? There has beeb so much change in all areas of life and work, in medicine and in finance, in farming, space exploration, physics.... > > For me, the Elizabethan age has been defined by the move from mechanical systems (or at best electromechanical systems) to fully electronic systems. On the railways, fully mechanical signal and point operation and interlocking has been replaced by colour lights, in cab display, computer control. > > What about in our industry? Moving needles gooving on rotating shellac disks have given way to tape recorders and then to solid state memory chips. The old mechanically swung about Mole cranes have been replaced by fully remote operated "technocranes", driven by preprogrammed routines stored on computers. Zooming can be done fully electronically - no need for glass elements moving backwards and forwards driven by cables or servos: and now, since it is easy to strip a foreground from a background using AI techniques, tracking could be done electronically - strip the foreground, differentially enlarge the background and resuprimpose. All it needs is fast processing! > > I'm only looking in from the outside. I guess many of you can offer better examples of the change from mechanical based systems to electronic based systems (just thought of another: Inlay in the 1950s and 60s). > > It is a great sadness that Queen Elizabeth has died, she has defined so many aspects of our lives - from Coronation gifts we got as children to the recent Ma'amalade sandwiches - but I wonder if you have stories which show the transition from mechanical systems to electronic or which define, for you, the Second Elizabethan Era. > > Best regards Alec > > Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections... > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 10:21:21 2022 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 16:21:21 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <430E43A3-9ADC-4307-9472-AEF8E39AB0A0@mac.com> References: <430E43A3-9ADC-4307-9472-AEF8E39AB0A0@mac.com> Message-ID: For me, I associate the moniker ?King Charles? with a breed of Spaniels and I?m wondering if our new HM will take to them as his mother did to Corgis, Geoff > On 9 Sep 2022, at 09:09, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > It occurred to me yesterday that C III R has a ring of Star Wars about it - definitely a space-age monarch. > > Mike G > >>> On 9 Sep 2022, at 09:06, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >>> >> ? >> A thought - I am no historian, but now that our new King is C III R, and no longer Prince of Wales, will William be promoted to the latter? (Does a Prince outrank a Duke?) >> >> Pat H >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Sep 9 10:53:38 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 16:53:38 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Second Elizabethan Era In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51bd7255-b6d6-221d-ae1c-bef1a19a70d0@amps.net> Geoff's reply reminds me that at Evesham in the 60's we were taught how to make shellac discs with a cutting lathe. The swarf was highly inflammable. (Percy Guy was the tutor, I think). The source material was inevitably the Canadian spoof broadcast of the 'Farting Contest' (or crepitation!) - there must be a huge number of those records lying around! I reckon that my SME arm/Shure V15 cartridge would track them OK. Wasn't 'The Teddy Bears Picnic' used as the definitive test of all lines, as it contained all the frequencies that the BBC aspired to in those days? That Henry Hall version is available on a CD - 'All Aboard the Runaway Train' (Jasmine JASCD 360) which also features the latter, and Reginald Gardiner's recitation about Trains, which a friend delights in performing at parties. I saw a film that one of the STO engineers courses made, depicting the string/tin can telephone system. The switchboard had a pretty girl tying together various bits of string and the in-line amplifier had the incoming 'string' at the bottom of a twig, the outgoing string was at the very top, which wagged about much more strenuously. Very inventive! Best Pat H On 09/09/2022 16:16, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote: > Alec, > Thank you for your interesting and alternative reflections looking back at the changes during HM Queen Elizabeth?s long and yes, glorious reign. I?m one of those who can remember singing God Save Our Gracious Queen instead of ?King? for the first time at infant school and not thinking much of it as for me at that tender age, the idea of a having woman as monarch sounded weak compared to a man. Now the matter is reversed, it will take a while to get used to the change and it still seems unreal that she?s gone. > I well remember the shellac records and needles you referred to and still have some in their original sleeves in our cellar, including Henry Hall?s The Teddy Bears?s Picnic. I wish I?d kept The Runaway Train which was my favourite and I think it must?ve been among those that my late mother sent to a jumble sale without asking first, after I left home. I no longer have the means of playing them and have offered them to local charity shops but they aren?t interested. > For me the big change over the last seventy years has been in the ease of communication. In the fifties my friend and I who lived opposite in our side street, used to chat using toy telephones connected by piece of string stretched across the road from his bedroom window to mine, which was fun more than useful. Nowadays with everyone including children having mobile phones it?s vastly different, though the business of hate messages or sharing of indecent images against the subject?s will is horrifying and I?m glad that I as a parent didn?t have to deal with it. > As a lifelong cyclist, the changes there are amazing too with me now benefiting from having an e-bike to assist me up the many hills where I live in the Chilterns. It does resemble the lightweight motor cycles with the battery built sleekly into the down tube where the fuel tanks used to be. > You?re right about electronic zooms having replaced optical ones, which I as a purist used to turn away from, but for still photography I?m now among those who benefit from the convenience of using my mobile phone for snapshots when out and about. The quality is amazing, though I don?t understand why the images when transferred to my computer through Photoshop Elements are poster size at 35dpi when a default of 9 x 6in at say, 300dpi would be better for me, > Regards, > Geoff Hawkes > >> On 9 Sep 2022, at 07:31, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ? >> I wonder what future generations will think of our wonderful Elizabethan era? There has beeb so much change in all areas of life and work, in medicine and in finance, in farming, space exploration, physics.... >> >> For me, the Elizabethan age has been defined by the move from mechanical systems (or at best electromechanical systems) to fully electronic systems. On the railways, fully mechanical signal and point operation and interlocking has been replaced by colour lights, in cab display, computer control. >> >> What about in our industry? Moving needles gooving on rotating shellac disks have given way to tape recorders and then to solid state memory chips. The old mechanically swung about Mole cranes have been replaced by fully remote operated "technocranes", driven by preprogrammed routines stored on computers. Zooming can be done fully electronically - no need for glass elements moving backwards and forwards driven by cables or servos: and now, since it is easy to strip a foreground from a background using AI techniques, tracking could be done electronically - strip the foreground, differentially enlarge the background and resuprimpose. All it needs is fast processing! >> >> I'm only looking in from the outside. I guess many of you can offer better examples of the change from mechanical based systems to electronic based systems (just thought of another: Inlay in the 1950s and 60s). >> >> It is a great sadness that Queen Elizabeth has died, she has defined so many aspects of our lives - from Coronation gifts we got as children to the recent Ma'amalade sandwiches - but I wonder if you have stories which show the transition from mechanical systems to electronic or which define, for you, the Second Elizabethan Era. >> >> Best regards Alec >> >> Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections... >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Fri Sep 9 12:35:21 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 18:35:21 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Peter Hales In-Reply-To: <0290c821-0acc-16b7-212a-e9a7c6dbdd9e@dfhume.plus.com> References: <0290c821-0acc-16b7-212a-e9a7c6dbdd9e@dfhume.plus.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the info. Dave. I am very sad to learn of the passing of my old mate, Pete. He confided in me a lot of his marital problems etc. and I hope that his last few years were trouble free. He managed to get to Pete Osborne's great Waterloo gatherings and, with the help of Geoff, managed to get to the Telobians as well. I will miss him. Regards, Dave Mundy From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Sep 9 13:29:42 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 19:29:42 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <7A39C729-C3B8-4D81-A9E3-E8B6EF4B02D5@gmail.com> References: <176b63c7-125f-f7c0-4a4e-74f745473011@amps.net> <7A39C729-C3B8-4D81-A9E3-E8B6EF4B02D5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <97ab8148-0d41-7c70-74ff-d2ce30409361@amps.net> Our new King has cleared up the question that we have been discussing. William inherits the Cornwall titles and also is appointed Prince of Wales. On 09/09/2022 15:04, Geoff Fletcher wrote: > The Prince of Wales title in the gift of the monarch - not passed on > automatically. > > Charles? Dukedom title is automatically now passed to Prince William. > > He and Kate become Duke and Duchess of Cornwall and Cambridge. > > Geoff F > >> On 9 Sep 2022, at 09:05, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> A thought - I am no historian, but now that our new King is C III R, >> and no longer Prince of Wales, will William be promoted to the >> latter? (Does a Prince outrank a Duke?) >> >> Pat H >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com Fri Sep 9 15:09:59 2022 From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 21:09:59 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tech1] The Second Elizabethan Era - ad breaks In-Reply-To: References: <7ab36ffd-f78c-125f-0641-02c402f1d080@amps.net> Message-ID: <75f7fed3.1b712.18323df9960.Webtop.86@btinternet.com> "..... without commercials, showing just a station logo with a daft electronic audio, in the gap. It hit home at just how long the ad breaks are!? The only non-BBC programme I've watched in the last 36 hours, Countdown on Ch 4, cut straight from the end of part to the start of the next part, no ads, no sponsor bumpers or anything. And off the end of the programme via a quick pres announcement straight into the next programme. They must have soon got 10-15 minutes ahead of schedule. How they resolved this I don't know. (Anyone?) Best wishes ..... Vernon Quote from a Heigham page:- ?I was interested last night on TV - BBC was broadcasting extended News on 1 & 2, while several channels were suspended. UK TV ran several scheduled programmes, but without commercials, showing just a station logo with a daft electronic audio, in the gap. It hit home at just how long the ad breaks are!? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Sep 9 16:04:10 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 22:04:10 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Second Elizabethan Era - ad breaks In-Reply-To: <75f7fed3.1b712.18323df9960.Webtop.86@btinternet.com> References: <7ab36ffd-f78c-125f-0641-02c402f1d080@amps.net> <75f7fed3.1b712.18323df9960.Webtop.86@btinternet.com> Message-ID: The Potters Wheel, or kittens playing?? On 09/09/2022 21:09, vernon.dyer via Tech1 wrote: > > "..... without commercials, showing just a station logo with a > daft electronic audio, in the gap. It hit home at just how long > the ad breaks are!? > > The only non-BBC programme I've watched in the last 36 hours, > Countdown on Ch 4, cut straight from the end of part to the start > of the next part, no ads, no sponsor bumpers or anything. And off > the end of the programme via a quick pres announcement straight > into the next programme. They must have soon got 10-15 minutes > ahead of schedule. How they resolved this I don't know. (Anyone?) > > Best wishes ..... Vernon > > Quote from a Heigham page:- > > ?I was interested last night on TV - BBC was broadcasting > extended News on 1 & 2, while several channels were > suspended. UK TV ran several scheduled programmes, but > without commercials, showing just a station logo with a > daft electronic audio, in the gap. It hit home at just how > long the ad breaks are!? > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 17:49:07 2022 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 23:49:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Second Elizabethan Era In-Reply-To: <51bd7255-b6d6-221d-ae1c-bef1a19a70d0@amps.net> References: <51bd7255-b6d6-221d-ae1c-bef1a19a70d0@amps.net> Message-ID: <4788ABAE-28A1-44C5-AD14-31A4ADC2088A@gmail.com> Further to what I said about the improvements in our means of communication during the late Queen?s reign, we may I think, applaud even louder the advances in healthcare, most commonly in medication without which some of us at least may not have survived to this day. My dad suffered with hypertension and heart problems from his early forties and was put on digitalis, a derivative of foxgloves. He was an in patient for a while at Hammersmith Hospital under the famous Dr Edith Summerskill. Sadly none of this was of long term benefit as he died of a heart attack in 1965 at the age of 54. Today we have much more sophisticated and advanced methods of detection and treatment for that disease and cancers too, for which I personally am thankful. It was on visits with him to outpatients at that hospital in the late fifties via train to Shepherds Bush and bus down Wood Lane that he pointed out the building works of Television Centre, still in its early stages. I took little notice, unaware that it was to become my home for nearly half a century from ?63 onwards, as it was for many of us who chose to remain, rather than become roadies, out on a life of adventure in the big wide world, Geoff > On 9 Sep 2022, at 16:53, Pat Heigham wrote: > > ? > Geoff's reply reminds me that at Evesham in the 60's we were taught how to make shellac discs with a cutting lathe. > The swarf was highly inflammable. (Percy Guy was the tutor, I think). > > The source material was inevitably the Canadian spoof broadcast of the 'Farting Contest' (or crepitation!) > - there must be a huge number of those records lying around! > > I reckon that my SME arm/Shure V15 cartridge would track them OK. > > Wasn't 'The Teddy Bears Picnic' used as the definitive test of all lines, as it contained all the frequencies > that the BBC aspired to in those days? > > That Henry Hall version is available on a CD - 'All Aboard the Runaway Train' (Jasmine JASCD 360) > which also features the latter, and Reginald Gardiner's recitation about Trains, which a friend delights > in performing at parties. > > I saw a film that one of the STO engineers courses made, depicting the string/tin can telephone system. > The switchboard had a pretty girl tying together various bits of string and the in-line amplifier had the > incoming 'string' at the bottom of a twig, the outgoing string was at the very top, which wagged about > much more strenuously. Very inventive! > > Best > Pat H > > On 09/09/2022 16:16, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote: >> Alec, >> Thank you for your interesting and alternative reflections looking back at the changes during HM Queen Elizabeth?s long and yes, glorious reign. I?m one of those who can remember singing God Save Our Gracious Queen instead of ?King? for the first time at infant school and not thinking much of it as for me at that tender age, the idea of a having woman as monarch sounded weak compared to a man. Now the matter is reversed, it will take a while to get used to the change and it still seems unreal that she?s gone. >> I well remember the shellac records and needles you referred to and still have some in their original sleeves in our cellar, including Henry Hall?s The Teddy Bears?s Picnic. I wish I?d kept The Runaway Train which was my favourite and I think it must?ve been among those that my late mother sent to a jumble sale without asking first, after I left home. I no longer have the means of playing them and have offered them to local charity shops but they aren?t interested. >> For me the big change over the last seventy years has been in the ease of communication. In the fifties my friend and I who lived opposite in our side street, used to chat using toy telephones connected by piece of string stretched across the road from his bedroom window to mine, which was fun more than useful. Nowadays with everyone including children having mobile phones it?s vastly different, though the business of hate messages or sharing of indecent images against the subject?s will is horrifying and I?m glad that I as a parent didn?t have to deal with it. >> As a lifelong cyclist, the changes there are amazing too with me now benefiting from having an e-bike to assist me up the many hills where I live in the Chilterns. It does resemble the lightweight motor cycles with the battery built sleekly into the down tube where the fuel tanks used to be. >> You?re right about electronic zooms having replaced optical ones, which I as a purist used to turn away from, but for still photography I?m now among those who benefit from the convenience of using my mobile phone for snapshots when out and about. The quality is amazing, though I don?t understand why the images when transferred to my computer through Photoshop Elements are poster size at 35dpi when a default of 9 x 6in at say, 300dpi would be better for me, >> Regards, >> Geoff Hawkes >> >>> On 9 Sep 2022, at 07:31, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> I wonder what future generations will think of our wonderful Elizabethan era? There has beeb so much change in all areas of life and work, in medicine and in finance, in farming, space exploration, physics.... >>> >>> For me, the Elizabethan age has been defined by the move from mechanical systems (or at best electromechanical systems) to fully electronic systems. On the railways, fully mechanical signal and point operation and interlocking has been replaced by colour lights, in cab display, computer control. >>> >>> What about in our industry? Moving needles gooving on rotating shellac disks have given way to tape recorders and then to solid state memory chips. The old mechanically swung about Mole cranes have been replaced by fully remote operated "technocranes", driven by preprogrammed routines stored on computers. Zooming can be done fully electronically - no need for glass elements moving backwards and forwards driven by cables or servos: and now, since it is easy to strip a foreground from a background using AI techniques, tracking could be done electronically - strip the foreground, differentially enlarge the background and resuprimpose. All it needs is fast processing! >>> >>> I'm only looking in from the outside. I guess many of you can offer better examples of the change from mechanical based systems to electronic based systems (just thought of another: Inlay in the 1950s and 60s). >>> >>> It is a great sadness that Queen Elizabeth has died, she has defined so many aspects of our lives - from Coronation gifts we got as children to the recent Ma'amalade sandwiches - but I wonder if you have stories which show the transition from mechanical systems to electronic or which define, for you, the Second Elizabethan Era. >>> >>> Best regards Alec >>> >>> Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections... >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 17:59:55 2022 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2022 23:59:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?q?The_King=E2=80=99s_tv_address_tonight?= Message-ID: I watched the King give his first tv address this evening and wondered how they achieved the shot change from loose MS at the desk to an MCU, apparently on the same axis. I assume it was a continuous recording, rather than having pauses with an edit to cover it. Perhaps those of you OB people who?ve been there and done it can answer? Geoff Hawkes From alanaudio at me.com Sat Sep 10 01:52:04 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 07:52:04 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <97ab8148-0d41-7c70-74ff-d2ce30409361@amps.net> References: <97ab8148-0d41-7c70-74ff-d2ce30409361@amps.net> Message-ID: <0349C44C-E547-469C-88E8-D9912C537877@me.com> Most people in 1952/3 would have instinctively known the the new era under Queen Elizabeth would be known as the Elizabethan era. One of my neighbours was asking what name will be used for the era just beginning, now that Charles is king. She pointed out that ?Charlean? or ?Charlesean? didn?t sound right. This reign should be known as the Carolean era. The word derives from Carolus, which is the Latin form of Charles. I?m not sure that Carolean sounds intuitively right to most people either, it certainly didn?t to her. However she did very much like that word. It might be something to do with her name being Carol. Alan From mibridge at mac.com Sat Sep 10 02:50:24 2022 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 08:50:24 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <0349C44C-E547-469C-88E8-D9912C537877@me.com> References: <0349C44C-E547-469C-88E8-D9912C537877@me.com> Message-ID: <685ABC6A-D4FD-4578-85E5-54F2D414C253@mac.com> And it has a ring of church bells and Christmas about it, which most people like. Mike G > On 10 Sep 2022, at 07:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Most people in 1952/3 would have instinctively known the the new era under Queen Elizabeth would be known as the Elizabethan era. One of my neighbours was asking what name will be used for the era just beginning, now that Charles is king. She pointed out that ?Charlean? or ?Charlesean? didn?t sound right. > > This reign should be known as the Carolean era. The word derives from Carolus, which is the Latin form of Charles. I?m not sure that Carolean sounds intuitively right to most people either, it certainly didn?t to her. However she did very much like that word. It might be something to do with her name being Carol. > > Alan > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From pat.heigham at amps.net Sat Sep 10 02:52:25 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 08:52:25 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?q?The_King=E2=80=99s_tv_address_tonight?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99b54891-9f1b-1cc4-61a0-77056ea26aff@amps.net> I assumed that they were separate takes. Or as someone mentioned, electronic zoom? I thought that he spoke very well indeed, emotional of course, but very fluent and measured. I'm now a monarchist fan of C3R. As I'm approaching 80, there will be a dinner party to celebrate. When it's time for the loyal toast, didn't know whether it would be to The Queen or The King. But we know now. Pat H On 09/09/2022 23:59, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote: > I watched the King give his first tv address this evening and wondered how they achieved the shot change from loose MS at the desk to an MCU, apparently on the same axis. I assume it was a continuous recording, rather than having pauses with an edit to cover it. Perhaps those of you OB people who?ve been there and done it can answer? > Geoff Hawkes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hughsnape at talktalk.net Sat Sep 10 03:25:15 2022 From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 09:25:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <685ABC6A-D4FD-4578-85E5-54F2D414C253@mac.com> References: <0349C44C-E547-469C-88E8-D9912C537877@me.com> <685ABC6A-D4FD-4578-85E5-54F2D414C253@mac.com> Message-ID: <0943D23C-13AD-4649-9F0A-7688E2C74EDE@talktalk.net> Hmm, I was hoping future subjects would be known as charlatans . . . Hugh > On 10 Sep 2022, at 08:50, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > > And it has a ring of church bells and Christmas about it, which most people like. > > Mike G > >> On 10 Sep 2022, at 07:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?Most people in 1952/3 would have instinctively known the the new era under Queen Elizabeth would be known as the Elizabethan era. One of my neighbours was asking what name will be used for the era just beginning, now that Charles is king. She pointed out that ?Charlean? or ?Charlesean? didn?t sound right. >> >> This reign should be known as the Carolean era. The word derives from Carolus, which is the Latin form of Charles. I?m not sure that Carolean sounds intuitively right to most people either, it certainly didn?t to her. However she did very much like that word. It might be something to do with her name being Carol. >> >> Alan >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Sat Sep 10 03:25:57 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 09:25:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Peter Hales In-Reply-To: References: <0290c821-0acc-16b7-212a-e9a7c6dbdd9e@dfhume.plus.com> Message-ID: <9CB6F7769B5749E6B101851670BF8D5D@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Thank you Dave M for getting the Telobians message on to our forum - it seems we would otherwise not have heard of Pete Hales passing. With the seemingly ever increasing losses of former colleagues, we often read and write about just how nice so many of them were and here's another. Pete was up there with the best of them as a really great guy. He was my SA1 for a time (can't now remember which crew) but also, through that period when SA1's were regularly made use of for sound mixing non glamorous studio productions, I boomed for him on a number of occasions. One stands out in my memory. A discussion between four seated guests arranged in a shallow arc. Starting with the left hand speaker, each in turn said their piece and deferred to the next contributor. No back and forth involved, so hardly challenging for a boom - at intervals move the mic a few feet camera right. Only I dozed off and was jerked awake with Pete's voice in my cans saying "where are you, Dave?" The penultimate speaker was doing his bit; I was still over the first! I should have been court martialled but Pete was just too nice to make any great fuss. I really feel sad to think of the passing of his not always very happy life. Dave Newbitt -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1 Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 6:35 PM To: Telobians ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Peter Hales Thanks for the info. Dave. I am very sad to learn of the passing of my old mate, Pete. He confided in me a lot of his marital problems etc. and I hope that his last few years were trouble free. He managed to get to Pete Osborne's great Waterloo gatherings and, with the help of Geoff, managed to get to the Telobians as well. I will miss him. Regards, Dave Mundy -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From graeme.wall at icloud.com Sat Sep 10 03:37:25 2022 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 09:37:25 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <0943D23C-13AD-4649-9F0A-7688E2C74EDE@talktalk.net> References: <0349C44C-E547-469C-88E8-D9912C537877@me.com> <685ABC6A-D4FD-4578-85E5-54F2D414C253@mac.com> <0943D23C-13AD-4649-9F0A-7688E2C74EDE@talktalk.net> Message-ID: <57DC89CC-511B-4E9D-B365-F889A79AC54C@icloud.com> > On 10 Sep 2022, at 09:25, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: > > Hmm, I was hoping future subjects would be known as charlatans . . . > > Hugh > >> On 10 Sep 2022, at 08:50, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >> >> And it has a ring of church bells and Christmas about it, which most people like. >> >> Mike G >> >>> On 10 Sep 2022, at 07:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?Most people in 1952/3 would have instinctively known the the new era under Queen Elizabeth would be known as the Elizabethan era. One of my neighbours was asking what name will be used for the era just beginning, now that Charles is king. She pointed out that ?Charlean? or ?Charlesean? didn?t sound right. >>> >>> This reign should be known as the Carolean era. The word derives from Carolus, which is the Latin form of Charles. I?m not sure that Carolean sounds intuitively right to most people either, it certainly didn?t to her. However she did very much like that word. It might be something to do with her name being Carol. >>> >>> Alan >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ? Graeme Wall From pat.heigham at amps.net Sat Sep 10 03:38:51 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 09:38:51 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <0349C44C-E547-469C-88E8-D9912C537877@me.com> References: <97ab8148-0d41-7c70-74ff-d2ce30409361@amps.net> <0349C44C-E547-469C-88E8-D9912C537877@me.com> Message-ID: There's some agreement with you, Alan: https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/in-the-news/so-what-will-charles-reign-era-be-called/ https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/read-this/carolean-era-this-is-what-it-will-be-known-as-under-king-charles-iii-as-his-reign-begins-3838399 Now, anyone want to surmise about Charles' successor? Apropos of nothing in particular, I'm not a huge fan of historical movies, didn't like History at school - not a good teacher, (didn't make it interesting, but see below) but loved the treatment depicted in 'Elizabeth' (1998) which had Sir Francis Walsingham sneaking around like James Bond, quietly stitching up the bishops! Highly entertaining. Same with Shakespeare - boring, reading his plays in class, it was only very much later that I saw the RSC at Stratford, and it all came alive. My Latin teacher, who had fought in WW2 with the Tank Corps - when we had tried to translate Latin accounts of battles between Caesar and Vercingetorix, would draw out the battle plan on the blackboard and then launch into: "Now, if Caesar had had tanks.....!" Most fascinating. Pat H On 10/09/2022 07:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > Most people in 1952/3 would have instinctively known the the new era under Queen Elizabeth would be known as the Elizabethan era. One of my neighbours was asking what name will be used for the era just beginning, now that Charles is king. She pointed out that ?Charlean? or ?Charlesean? didn?t sound right. > > This reign should be known as the Carolean era. The word derives from Carolus, which is the Latin form of Charles. I?m not sure that Carolean sounds intuitively right to most people either, it certainly didn?t to her. However she did very much like that word. It might be something to do with her name being Carol. > > Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Sat Sep 10 03:41:42 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 09:41:42 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <0943D23C-13AD-4649-9F0A-7688E2C74EDE@talktalk.net> References: <0349C44C-E547-469C-88E8-D9912C537877@me.com> <685ABC6A-D4FD-4578-85E5-54F2D414C253@mac.com> <0943D23C-13AD-4649-9F0A-7688E2C74EDE@talktalk.net> Message-ID: <717609eb-2544-289e-3b4d-bccc400b922a@amps.net> That comment is nearly worthy of Ian Hislop, Hugh! Pat On 10/09/2022 09:25, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: > Hmm, I was hoping future subjects would be known as charlatans . . . > > Hugh > >> On 10 Sep 2022, at 08:50, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >> >> And it has a ring of church bells and Christmas about it, which most people like. >> >> Mike G >> >>> On 10 Sep 2022, at 07:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?Most people in 1952/3 would have instinctively known the the new era under Queen Elizabeth would be known as the Elizabethan era. One of my neighbours was asking what name will be used for the era just beginning, now that Charles is king. She pointed out that ?Charlean? or ?Charlesean? didn?t sound right. >>> >>> This reign should be known as the Carolean era. The word derives from Carolus, which is the Latin form of Charles. I?m not sure that Carolean sounds intuitively right to most people either, it certainly didn?t to her. However she did very much like that word. It might be something to do with her name being Carol. >>> >>> Alan >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Sat Sep 10 04:18:31 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 10:18:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Peter Hales In-Reply-To: <9CB6F7769B5749E6B101851670BF8D5D@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <0290c821-0acc-16b7-212a-e9a7c6dbdd9e@dfhume.plus.com> <9CB6F7769B5749E6B101851670BF8D5D@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <8562284f-e065-a5e9-1749-f5433c795556@amps.net> I, too, knew Pete Hales at TVC, remember him as being a pleasant, nice guy. It is indeed sad when people start dropping of the branch. Not wishing to steal your thunder about boom problems, Dave, but attached are some stories that I should rather forget! Pat H On 10/09/2022 09:25, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > Thank you Dave M for getting the Telobians message on to our forum - > it seems we would otherwise not have heard of Pete Hales passing. With > the seemingly ever increasing losses of former colleagues, we often > read and write about just how nice so many of them were and here's > another. Pete was up there with the best of them as a really great > guy. He was my SA1 for a time (can't now remember which crew) but > also, through that period when SA1's were regularly made use of for > sound mixing non glamorous studio productions, I boomed for him on a > number of occasions. > > One stands out in my memory. A discussion between four seated guests > arranged in a shallow arc. Starting with the left hand speaker, each > in turn said their piece and deferred to the next contributor. No back > and forth involved, so hardly challenging for a boom - at intervals > move the mic a few feet camera right. > Only I dozed off and was jerked awake with Pete's voice in my cans > saying "where are you, Dave?" The penultimate speaker was doing his > bit; I was still over the first! > > I should have been court martialled but Pete was just too nice to make > any great fuss. I really feel sad to think of the passing of his not > always very happy life. > > Dave Newbitt -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Some Disastrous tales Boom.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 24349 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Sat Sep 10 04:30:13 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 10:30:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Peter Hales In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Pete was somebody I worked with extensively because he was the SA1 on the LPU for much of the time I was working on drama throughout the 1980s. One of the features of doing location drama is that you spend many weeks, not only working together, but staying in the same hotels, eating in the same restaurants and drinking in the same pubs. You really get to know people very well after spending so much time with them. In some locations we liked to rent a holiday cottage for the sound crew if we were in the same area for a few weeks. When staying in a holiday cottage and travelling in the same car every day, you certainly get to know people well. You get to hear all their stories, you hear all about what else is going on in their life and what makes them tick. Prolonged living and working with colleagues can be a test of their personality and Pete passed that test with flying colours. He was always good company. In any department there are likely to be some people you might not want to spend too much time with, but Pete was the opposite. He was one of those people who made you feel delighted that he was going to be on your next show. As far as work was concerned, you couldn?t hope for a safer pair of hands, which is doubly true when it comes to location boom operating. Pete was always aware of everything which was happening on set and working out how to ensure that our coverage was as good as possible. If Pete suggested something, only a fool would disregard it. Towards the end on the 1980s, I started abandoning the sanctuary of the sound control room in the LPU and chose to work from the set. I used a portable mixer and Nagra on an Ursta Cart, connected to the scanner via a multi core cable. By that time, directors were working mostly from the floor, rather than in the truck. Working from the floor meant that communication with the production team, actors, lighting, cameramen and sound crew became more direct. Equally importantly, I could also see what was happening out of shot. That was the time when I really became aware of just how much of a contribution Pete would quietly make behind the scenes. I liked to operate the Ursta Cart in a position where I had eye contact with boom ops during takes. We often exchanged looks which communicated how well things were going or if we needed to try another approach. By the time the recording had stopped, we both knew what we needed to change in order to do it better. I only got to hear about OB staff reunions in 2019 and went to my first one that year. It was a pleasure meeting up with so many of my ex-colleagues and I was delighted that Pete was able to be there too and we shared some recollections of very happy times. He was a great sound guy and always professional. It was a privilege to have spent so much time with him. He is one of the reasons why my time working on drama was so enjoyable. Alan > On 9 Sep 2022, at 18:36, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Thanks for the info. Dave. I am very sad to learn of the passing of my old mate, Pete. He confided in me a lot of his marital problems etc. and I hope that his last few years were trouble free. He managed to get to Pete Osborne's great Waterloo gatherings and, with the help of Geoff, managed to get to the Telobians as well. I will miss him. Regards, Dave Mundy > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From doug at puddifoot.me Sat Sep 10 04:38:28 2022 From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 10:38:28 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?q?The_King=E2=80=99s_tv_address_tonight?= Message-ID: <4yd0ysuopai7holu3qbtlxbn.1662802708550@email.android.com> If it was recorded in 4k, an electronic zoom in with no loss of quality in HD should be possible. I doubt he would have wanted to do two takes. Doug On 9 September 2022, at 23:59, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote: I watched the King give his first tv address this evening and wondered how they achieved the shot change from loose MS at the desk to an MCU, apparently on the same axis. I assume it was a continuous recording, rather than having pauses with an edit to cover it. Perhaps those of you OB people who?ve been there and done it can answer? Geoff Hawkes -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From bernie833 at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 04:40:45 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 10:40:45 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?q?The_King=E2=80=99s_tv_address_tonight?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know the actual answer, but if you record in 4k and transmit in HD I assume you can cut in and out without quality change on the output. B On 09/09/2022 23:59, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote: > I watched the King give his first tv address this evening and wondered how they achieved the shot change from loose MS at the desk to an MCU, apparently on the same axis. I assume it was a continuous recording, rather than having pauses with an edit to cover it. Perhaps those of you OB people who?ve been there and done it can answer? > Geoff Hawkes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 04:41:03 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 10:41:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?q?The_King=E2=80=99s_tv_address_tonight?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <07a79d65-4adf-ea4d-9b11-39de0f384a64@gmail.com> I don't know the actual answer, but if you record in 4k and transmit in HD I assume you can cut in and out without quality change on the output. B On 09/09/2022 23:59, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote: > I watched the King give his first tv address this evening and wondered how they achieved the shot change from loose MS at the desk to an MCU, apparently on the same axis. I assume it was a continuous recording, rather than having pauses with an edit to cover it. Perhaps those of you OB people who?ve been there and done it can answer? > Geoff Hawkes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Sat Sep 10 04:54:36 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 10:54:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2FBAF9AD-D9F6-4DA8-BB0F-D20CC4A0FB29@me.com> > On 10 Sep 2022, at 09:38, Pat Heigham wrote: > Now, anyone want to surmise about Charles' successor? The Latin name for William is Gulielmus. Therefore by the same logic, I?m assuming that his era will be referred to as something like the the Gulielman era. Unfortunately, that word does not come up in an online search. There might be some profit to be made for a 21st century Del Boy by speculatively registering appropriately named web domains which might become valuable in the future. Hopefully it?s not an issue which needs to be resolved for a few years. Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidvbrunt at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 06:09:34 2022 From: davidvbrunt at gmail.com (David Brunt) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 12:09:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <0943D23C-13AD-4649-9F0A-7688E2C74EDE@talktalk.net> References: <0349C44C-E547-469C-88E8-D9912C537877@me.com> <685ABC6A-D4FD-4578-85E5-54F2D414C253@mac.com> <0943D23C-13AD-4649-9F0A-7688E2C74EDE@talktalk.net> Message-ID: Charlies. We're all Charlies now. On Sat, 10 Sept 2022 at 09:25, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: > > Hmm, I was hoping future subjects would be known as charlatans . . . > > Hugh > > > On 10 Sep 2022, at 08:50, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > > > > And it has a ring of church bells and Christmas about it, which most people like. > > > > Mike G > > > >> On 10 Sep 2022, at 07:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > >> > >> ?Most people in 1952/3 would have instinctively known the the new era under Queen Elizabeth would be known as the Elizabethan era. One of my neighbours was asking what name will be used for the era just beginning, now that Charles is king. She pointed out that ?Charlean? or ?Charlesean? didn?t sound right. > >> > >> This reign should be known as the Carolean era. The word derives from Carolus, which is the Latin form of Charles. I?m not sure that Carolean sounds intuitively right to most people either, it certainly didn?t to her. However she did very much like that word. It might be something to do with her name being Carol. > >> > >> Alan > >> -- > >> Tech1 mailing list > >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > > -- > > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 09:39:50 2022 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 15:39:50 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Peter Hales References: Message-ID: I meant to have sent this to everyone not just Dave N, so have forwarded it below as appropriate, Geoff Hawkes > From: Geoffrey Hawkes > Date: 10 September 2022 at 15:22:57 BST > To: David Newbitt > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Peter Hales > > ?I would also like to thank Dave M for sharing the news of Pete Hales. Although I didn?t know him well, I do remember him from when he was either on or worked with a crew I was on in the late sixties/ early seventies and he came across as a warm and friendly man. It was at the time when local radio was on the rise and Pete said he?d applied for an attachment or a job, I think it was with Radio Medway which he subsequently got. It wasn?t until some thirty or forty years later that I saw him again when he came to one or two of the Tech-Ops disorganised lunches at the Horniman in Hayes Gallery, London Bridge and he greeted me like an old friend, which seemed typical of him. > The point I would like to make is, please can those of you who are of the Telobians fraternity be sure to share such news of our former London studios colleagues so we are in the know too? There are a number of ex-TC camera people for example who I remember from years ago, Keith Furlonger, Alan Gomery and Geoff Vian among them who I would like to hear about if anything happened to them. I was glad to have heard the news of Chris Wickham?s passing in time to attend his funeral and would?ve been sorry not to have had that opportunity. > I guess the reverse applies too, so please let there be an exchange of information such as might be posted on our Announce pages for the benefit of all, > Thanks, > Geoff Hawkes (ex-cameraman) > >> On 10 Sep 2022, at 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?Thank you Dave M for getting the Telobians message on to our forum - it seems we would otherwise not have heard of Pete Hales passing. With the seemingly ever increasing losses of former colleagues, we often read and write about just how nice so many of them were and here's another. Pete was up there with the best of them as a really great guy. He was my SA1 for a time (can't now remember which crew) but also, through that period when SA1's were regularly made use of for sound mixing non glamorous studio productions, I boomed for him on a number of occasions. >> >> One stands out in my memory. A discussion between four seated guests arranged in a shallow arc. Starting with the left hand speaker, each in turn said their piece and deferred to the next contributor. No back and forth involved, so hardly challenging for a boom - at intervals move the mic a few feet camera right. >> Only I dozed off and was jerked awake with Pete's voice in my cans saying "where are you, Dave?" The penultimate speaker was doing his bit; I was still over the first! >> >> I should have been court martialled but Pete was just too nice to make any great fuss. I really feel sad to think of the passing of his not always very happy life. >> >> Dave Newbitt >> >> -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1 >> Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 6:35 PM >> To: Telobians ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Peter Hales >> >> Thanks for the info. Dave. I am very sad to learn of the passing of my >> old mate, Pete. He confided in me a lot of his marital problems etc. and >> I hope that his last few years were trouble free. He managed to get to >> Pete Osborne's great Waterloo gatherings and, with the help of Geoff, >> managed to get to the Telobians as well. I will miss him. Regards, Dave >> Mundy >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Sat Sep 10 16:32:43 2022 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2022 22:32:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Peter Hales In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6A9C5459-BB47-4CC0-9B83-39B533F3CFDD@mac.com> I also remember Pete Hales as a warm, welcoming and helpful colleague at Television Centre. He was one of many who might well have begrudged a country yokel being made SS, but nothing could have been further from the truth. You mention Geoff Vian, Geoff ~ he went to Bristol and I don?t know if he?s on this forum. I have a Bristol contact or two if you would like to hear from him. Mike G > On 10 Sep 2022, at 15:39, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote: > > I meant to have sent this to everyone not just Dave N, so have forwarded it below as appropriate, > Geoff Hawkes > >> From: Geoffrey Hawkes >> Date: 10 September 2022 at 15:22:57 BST >> To: David Newbitt >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Peter Hales >> >> ?I would also like to thank Dave M for sharing the news of Pete Hales. Although I didn?t know him well, I do remember him from when he was either on or worked with a crew I was on in the late sixties/ early seventies and he came across as a warm and friendly man. It was at the time when local radio was on the rise and Pete said he?d applied for an attachment or a job, I think it was with Radio Medway which he subsequently got. It wasn?t until some thirty or forty years later that I saw him again when he came to one or two of the Tech-Ops disorganised lunches at the Horniman in Hayes Gallery, London Bridge and he greeted me like an old friend, which seemed typical of him. >> The point I would like to make is, please can those of you who are of the Telobians fraternity be sure to share such news of our former London studios colleagues so we are in the know too? There are a number of ex-TC camera people for example who I remember from years ago, Keith Furlonger, Alan Gomery and Geoff Vian among them who I would like to hear about if anything happened to them. I was glad to have heard the news of Chris Wickham?s passing in time to attend his funeral and would?ve been sorry not to have had that opportunity. >> I guess the reverse applies too, so please let there be an exchange of information such as might be posted on our Announce pages for the benefit of all, >> Thanks, >> Geoff Hawkes (ex-cameraman) >> >>> On 10 Sep 2022, at 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?Thank you Dave M for getting the Telobians message on to our forum - it seems we would otherwise not have heard of Pete Hales passing. With the seemingly ever increasing losses of former colleagues, we often read and write about just how nice so many of them were and here's another. Pete was up there with the best of them as a really great guy. He was my SA1 for a time (can't now remember which crew) but also, through that period when SA1's were regularly made use of for sound mixing non glamorous studio productions, I boomed for him on a number of occasions. >>> >>> One stands out in my memory. A discussion between four seated guests arranged in a shallow arc. Starting with the left hand speaker, each in turn said their piece and deferred to the next contributor. No back and forth involved, so hardly challenging for a boom - at intervals move the mic a few feet camera right. >>> Only I dozed off and was jerked awake with Pete's voice in my cans saying "where are you, Dave?" The penultimate speaker was doing his bit; I was still over the first! >>> >>> I should have been court martialled but Pete was just too nice to make any great fuss. I really feel sad to think of the passing of his not always very happy life. >>> >>> Dave Newbitt >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1 >>> Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 6:35 PM >>> To: Telobians ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Peter Hales >>> >>> Thanks for the info. Dave. I am very sad to learn of the passing of my >>> old mate, Pete. He confided in me a lot of his marital problems etc. and >>> I hope that his last few years were trouble free. He managed to get to >>> Pete Osborne's great Waterloo gatherings and, with the help of Geoff, >>> managed to get to the Telobians as well. I will miss him. Regards, Dave >>> Mundy >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 18:05:47 2022 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 00:05:47 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Peter Hales In-Reply-To: <6A9C5459-BB47-4CC0-9B83-39B533F3CFDD@mac.com> References: <6A9C5459-BB47-4CC0-9B83-39B533F3CFDD@mac.com> Message-ID: <2948E99B-5AF6-4935-A80F-9364B93FA8BD@gmail.com> Thanks Mike and I mentioned Geoff Vian as one of those I remember from his days at TC before he went to Tel OB?s. He was quite a firebrand and I believe a keen Union supporter if not activist who made his views on employment matters we?ll known. In July 2014 The Antiques Road Show came to Chenies Manor not far from where I live and my wife and I went along. I took some photos and though I did realise it at the time, the man in foreground of this one turning to smile at me was apparently Geoff Vian. If I had twigged it was him, I would?ve made a point of speaking to him. If you do have opportunity to get in touch with him via your Bristol contacts, please pass on this photo with my regards, Thanks, Geoff Hawkes > On 10 Sep 2022, at 22:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > > ?I also remember Pete Hales as a warm, welcoming and helpful colleague at Television Centre. He was one of many who might well have begrudged a country yokel being made SS, but nothing could have been further from the truth. > > You mention Geoff Vian, Geoff ~ he went to Bristol and I don?t know if he?s on this forum. I have a Bristol contact or two if you would like to hear from him. > > Mike G > > >> On 10 Sep 2022, at 15:39, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote: >> >> I meant to have sent this to everyone not just Dave N, so have forwarded it below as appropriate, >> Geoff Hawkes >> >>> From: Geoffrey Hawkes >>> Date: 10 September 2022 at 15:22:57 BST >>> To: David Newbitt >>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Peter Hales >>> >>> ?I would also like to thank Dave M for sharing the news of Pete Hales. Although I didn?t know him well, I do remember him from when he was either on or worked with a crew I was on in the late sixties/ early seventies and he came across as a warm and friendly man. It was at the time when local radio was on the rise and Pete said he?d applied for an attachment or a job, I think it was with Radio Medway which he subsequently got. It wasn?t until some thirty or forty years later that I saw him again when he came to one or two of the Tech-Ops disorganised lunches at the Horniman in Hayes Gallery, London Bridge and he greeted me like an old friend, which seemed typical of him. >>> The point I would like to make is, please can those of you who are of the Telobians fraternity be sure to share such news of our former London studios colleagues so we are in the know too? There are a number of ex-TC camera people for example who I remember from years ago, Keith Furlonger, Alan Gomery and Geoff Vian among them who I would like to hear about if anything happened to them. I was glad to have heard the news of Chris Wickham?s passing in time to attend his funeral and would?ve been sorry not to have had that opportunity. >>> I guess the reverse applies too, so please let there be an exchange of information such as might be posted on our Announce pages for the benefit of all, >>> Thanks, >>> Geoff Hawkes (ex-cameraman) >>> >>>> On 10 Sep 2022, at 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Thank you Dave M for getting the Telobians message on to our forum - it seems we would otherwise not have heard of Pete Hales passing. With the seemingly ever increasing losses of former colleagues, we often read and write about just how nice so many of them were and here's another. Pete was up there with the best of them as a really great guy. He was my SA1 for a time (can't now remember which crew) but also, through that period when SA1's were regularly made use of for sound mixing non glamorous studio productions, I boomed for him on a number of occasions. >>>> >>>> One stands out in my memory. A discussion between four seated guests arranged in a shallow arc. Starting with the left hand speaker, each in turn said their piece and deferred to the next contributor. No back and forth involved, so hardly challenging for a boom - at intervals move the mic a few feet camera right. >>>> Only I dozed off and was jerked awake with Pete's voice in my cans saying "where are you, Dave?" The penultimate speaker was doing his bit; I was still over the first! >>>> >>>> I should have been court martialled but Pete was just too nice to make any great fuss. I really feel sad to think of the passing of his not always very happy life. >>>> >>>> Dave Newbitt >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1 >>>> Sent: Friday, September 9, 2022 6:35 PM >>>> To: Telobians ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Peter Hales >>>> >>>> Thanks for the info. Dave. I am very sad to learn of the passing of my >>>> old mate, Pete. He confided in me a lot of his marital problems etc. and >>>> I hope that his last few years were trouble free. He managed to get to >>>> Pete Osborne's great Waterloo gatherings and, with the help of Geoff, >>>> managed to get to the Telobians as well. I will miss him. Regards, Dave >>>> Mundy >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 913317 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Sun Sep 11 08:16:35 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 14:16:35 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Brian Cowgill on BBC morale Message-ID: Fellow hoarders will be familiar with the syndrome of looking for one thing and finding another. A recent illustration of the syndrome unearthed this long forgotten piece from The Sunday Times edition of July 10th 1977, headlined ?Brain drain saps morale at BBC?. Written by journalists based on Ginger?s observations as he was about to leave the Beeb for Thames TV. The now 45 year old newspaper page was foxed to about pub ceiling tobacco stain colour so I?ve had to fiddle a bit to get it sort of greyscale. I?ve made the PDF deliberately large to allow for adequate magnification of the copy and thus, hopefully, achieve legibility. Apart from the main thrust of the article I found it fascinating (when now, BBC salaries are under intense scrutiny) to see that The DG at that time commanded about ?25k pa. Dave Newbitt. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Brian Cowgill in 1977.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 6746228 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Sun Sep 11 12:20:50 2022 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2022 18:20:50 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] We all maek mistrakes... Message-ID: >From BBC Engineering on Facebook - you probably have already seen it.... It may be just that HM Queen has been such a fixture in our lives that it is difficult for some to think of a "King"... Best regards Alec Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: facebook_1662916483109_6974777256771769990.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 48911 bytes Desc: not available URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Mon Sep 12 08:23:03 2022 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 14:23:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Helicopter links. Message-ID: <27578D6B-9BFB-4CC7-87EA-488BC58142F7@icloud.com> I was intrigued by the problems they had with the helicopter radio links when following the various Royal movements, especially round Edinburgh. I thought modern diversity systems woud have been abe to cope much better than that. ? Graeme Wall From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Mon Sep 12 18:42:32 2022 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 00:42:32 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Audio Skulduggery References: <3A910985-CA91-4DAB-B67A-0E78EBF52CCB@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: Shave your CDs to improve the sound: > > https://youtu.be/f-QxLAxwxkM Hibou. From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Sep 13 03:37:09 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 09:37:09 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Audio Skulduggery In-Reply-To: References: <3A910985-CA91-4DAB-B67A-0E78EBF52CCB@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: <2849b960-df22-99b2-13af-ac55f0eed231@amps.net> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that coding the audio onto CD dispenses with frequencies that are 'masked' by stronger levels. Maybe this is why analogue vinyl is making a comeback, since aficionardos feel that the sound is 'warmer'. Feeling the edges of discs, I was interested in, as I once made 50 DVD copies of an am-dram musical that I filmed. Some would not play for the recipients, they were all rough edged, so I wondered if they were counterfeit fakes, although purchased from a reputable source (if Amazon could be described as such!). A different batch, which were smooth, were perfect. They all purported to be Verbatim, which I use exclusively although I have had Philips in the past. The exercise took forever, as I was copying in real time - a 2 hr show! That was before I discovered that Mike McCarthy had a tower duplicator! Another video clip flagged up in that example, mentioned cylinder players, but I need to view that fully. Here's a story involving the excellent Ian Leiper: In the 60?s TC1 Sound gallery only had one twin turntable unit. Ian, Gram-Opping, continually complained to the sound office that there should be 4 turntables, as per the other TVC studios. One day he brought in an Edison wax cylinder player, on which he?d mounted a stereo cartridge, for vertical compliance to track the ?hill & dale? grooves. The studio maintenance TA?s had soldered the ball from a biro to the shank of the cartridge and plugged it into the sound desk. Sam Hutchings came round on his daily visit and spotted the device. ?Why?s that there?? ?Because you won?t give me another two turntables!? Ian retorted! Also, for your amusement: STO Course 21 I remember this course as it finished close to Christmas, so instead of making a studio based programme to amuse the tutors, it was decided to put on a pantomime in the club dance hall! Two very talented guys wrote a script, loosely based on Dick Whittington and His Cat. Dick was depicted as a bit of a dumb ingenue, and the cat was his sophisticated guide to London. Eric Wallis was the cat, in evening dress, ears poking out of a top hat, and my Mum made him a black velvet tail which he carried nonchalantly over his arm. Ian Leiper played a Sultan, in baggy pantaloons! All the old traditional gags were reconstituted, with one involving cries of ?beware the cockroaches under your chairs?, after distributing handfuls of in-shell peanuts around the floor. Terrific fun, and I believe that some Tech-ops people were far more talented in non-technical fields than some of today?s writers and directors. Such a shame that portable video wasn?t around at that time. Also sad that several of those course members are no longer with us ? pushing daisies rather than faders. Best regards Pat On 13/09/2022 00:42, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > Shave your CDs to improve the sound: >> https://youtu.be/f-QxLAxwxkM > Hibou. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Tue Sep 13 04:21:18 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 09:21:18 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] More Audio Skulduggery In-Reply-To: <2849b960-df22-99b2-13af-ac55f0eed231@amps.net> References: <3A910985-CA91-4DAB-B67A-0E78EBF52CCB@howell61.f9.co.uk> <2849b960-df22-99b2-13af-ac55f0eed231@amps.net> Message-ID: That was minidisc. N. Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad On 13 Sep 2022, at 10:37, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that coding the audio onto CD dispenses with frequencies that are 'masked' by stronger levels. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Tue Sep 13 04:27:52 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 10:27:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Audio Skulduggery In-Reply-To: References: <3A910985-CA91-4DAB-B67A-0E78EBF52CCB@howell61.f9.co.uk> <2849b960-df22-99b2-13af-ac55f0eed231@amps.net> Message-ID: There's a fun test to do with those who think CD 'spoils' the sound. Dub a favourite LP to CD. Play the same LP back on the same equipment and compare to the CD, again on the same equipment. Can the one with the 'golden ears' reliably tell which is which, if he can't see what is playing? On 13/09/2022 10:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > That was minidisc. > N. > Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad > >> On 13 Sep 2022, at 10:37, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? >> >> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that coding the audio onto CD >> dispenses with frequencies that are 'masked' by stronger levels. >> > From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Sep 13 05:08:52 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 11:08:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Audio Skulduggery In-Reply-To: References: <3A910985-CA91-4DAB-B67A-0E78EBF52CCB@howell61.f9.co.uk> <2849b960-df22-99b2-13af-ac55f0eed231@amps.net> Message-ID: <05cd1f0e-109a-5eb2-85d4-84d78adb769f@amps.net> I must admit to purchasing commercial CD versions of favourite LP's - good marketing ploy to get one to spend more money! However - two main reasons: * take up less space * can be played in the car! I'm still amazed at the CD player in my vehicle never hops, skips or jumps, even on the Surrey roads (poorly maintained!) Best Pat On 13/09/2022 10:27, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > There's a fun test to do with those who think CD 'spoils' the sound. > Dub a favourite LP to CD. Play the same LP back on the same equipment > and compare to the CD, again on the same equipment. Can the one with > the 'golden ears' reliably tell which is which, if he can't see what > is playing? > > On 13/09/2022 10:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >> That was minidisc. >> N. >> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 13 Sep 2022, at 10:37, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >>> wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that coding the audio onto CD >>> dispenses with frequencies that are 'masked' by stronger levels. >>> ? albums >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Tue Sep 13 05:25:20 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 11:25:20 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Audio Skulduggery In-Reply-To: References: <3A910985-CA91-4DAB-B67A-0E78EBF52CCB@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: <8bdd6c4d-5097-27dd-2e06-70449b0d87ce@btinternet.com> ... not to mention putting them in the freezer (suitably wrapped!) and drawing a green line round the outside! Cheers, Dave From alanaudio at me.com Tue Sep 13 06:28:19 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:28:19 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Audio Skulduggery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <23982B27-60E0-4DFE-AB68-B3F4292A95D4@me.com> To expand on what Nick said. CDs do not incorporate digital audio compression ( but of course will faithfully reproduce any audio compression used in the recording ). If you use sufficiently good A-D and D-A converters, the reproduced sound should be pretty well indistinguishable from the original to most ears. Where you start getting audible differences is when digital audio compression is used. Digital audio compression can drastically reduce the amount of data needed, which means that more audio can be stored in a given amount of memory, or for streaming and broadcasting, less bandwidth is needed to transmit it. Compressed formats include MiniDisc, or for computer storage, MP3 and AAC. DAB radio uses digital compression too. A typical MP3 file might need less than 20% of the data used by a CD. Streaming might squeeze what would originally be 100kB into less than 15kB. Obviously when you?re throwing away 80-85% of the original data, something has to give and the reproduced audio is sufficiently different that an untrained ear can detect the difference in A/B comparisons, but will most likely regard the reproduced audio as being acceptably good if listened to in isolation. A small reduction in quality would be a sensible trade off in return for storing much more music on a portable device, or having more radio channels available. Digital audio compression cleverly exploits a number of psychoacoustic techniques in order to mask what it?s doing. Because different tricks are used to fool the ears and brain by different compression systems, you can?t simply compare the number of bits, sample rates, or megabytes used in order to deduce that one should sound better than another. What you hear does not necessarily relate to what you can measure. If you want to know more, try doing a search for ?how digital audio compression works? and choose an article which suits your preferred level of detail. Alan > On 13 Sep 2022, at 10:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > ? That was minidisc. > N. > Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad > >>> On 13 Sep 2022, at 10:37, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >>> >> ? >> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that coding the audio onto CD dispenses with frequencies that are 'masked' by stronger levels. >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Sep 13 06:29:10 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:29:10 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Audio Skulduggery In-Reply-To: <8bdd6c4d-5097-27dd-2e06-70449b0d87ce@btinternet.com> References: <3A910985-CA91-4DAB-B67A-0E78EBF52CCB@howell61.f9.co.uk> <8bdd6c4d-5097-27dd-2e06-70449b0d87ce@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Anything green in the freezer, should _not_ be eaten! (what's for supper? Meatloaf?) Pat H On 13/09/2022 11:25, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > ... not to mention putting them in the freezer (suitably wrapped!) and > drawing a green line round the outside! Cheers, Dave > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Tue Sep 13 06:44:32 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 12:44:32 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Audio Skulduggery In-Reply-To: <23982B27-60E0-4DFE-AB68-B3F4292A95D4@me.com> References: <23982B27-60E0-4DFE-AB68-B3F4292A95D4@me.com> Message-ID: <8e4ce472-d52b-2e91-f4bc-1f2ff3911e19@davesound.co.uk> Really quite remarkable in some ways. Previous car had a CD autochanger which held 10 discs. This one has a single CD player - but a USB input that takes a memory stick. The one I'm using about the size of a thumbnail. And has about 100 CDs on it, all of which I transferred myself. And a prog (can't remember which one) added the track etc information automatically, which appears on the screen in the car. I find MP3 OK for car use. After all, we put up with cassette or 8-track at one time, if wanting to play our own music. On 13/09/2022 12:28, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > To expand on what Nick said. ?CDs do not incorporate digital audio > compression ( but of course will faithfully reproduce any audio > compression used in the recording ). If you use sufficiently good A-D > and D-A converters, the reproduced sound should be pretty well > indistinguishable from the original to most ears. > > Where you start getting audible differences is when digital audio > compression is used. ?Digital audio compression can drastically reduce > the amount of data needed, which means that more audio can be stored > in a given amount of memory, or for streaming and broadcasting, less > bandwidth is needed to transmit it. > > Compressed formats include MiniDisc, or for computer storage, MP3 and > AAC. DAB radio uses digital compression too. ?A typical MP3 file might > need less than 20% of the data used ?by a CD. ?Streaming might squeeze > what would originally be 100kB into less than 15kB. Obviously when > you?re throwing away ?80-85% of the original data, something has to > give and the reproduced audio is sufficiently different that an > untrained ear can detect the difference in A/B comparisons, but will > most likely regard the reproduced audio as being acceptably good if > listened to in isolation. A small reduction in quality would be a > sensible trade off in return for storing much more music on a portable > device, or having more radio channels available. > > Digital audio compression cleverly exploits a number of psychoacoustic > techniquesin order to mask what it?s doing. ?Because different tricks > are used to fool the ears and brain by different compression systems, > you can?t simply compare the number of bits, sample rates, or > megabytes used in order to deduce that one should sound better than > another. ?What you hear does not necessarily relate to what you can > measure. ?If you want to know more, try doing a search for ?how > digital audio compression works? and choose an article which suits > your preferred level of detail. > > Alan > >> On 13 Sep 2022, at 10:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? That was minidisc. >> N. >> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 13 Sep 2022, at 10:37, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >>> wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that coding the audio onto CD >>> dispenses with frequencies that are 'masked' by stronger levels. >>> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- Dave P London SW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Tue Sep 13 07:38:08 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 13:38:08 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Audio Skulduggery In-Reply-To: References: <3A910985-CA91-4DAB-B67A-0E78EBF52CCB@howell61.f9.co.uk> <8bdd6c4d-5097-27dd-2e06-70449b0d87ce@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Really quite remarkable in some ways. Previous car had a CD autochanger which held 10 discs. This one has a single CD player - but a USB input that takes a memory stick. The one I'm using about the size of a thumbnail. And has about 100 CDs on it, all of which I transferred myself. And a prog (can't remember which one) added the track etc information automatically, which appears on the screen in the car. I find MP3 OK for car use. After all, we put up with cassette or 8-track at one time, if wanting to play our own music. On 13/09/2022 12:28, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > To expand on what Nick said. CDs do not incorporate digital audio compression ( but of course will faithfully reproduce any audio compression used in the recording ). If you use sufficiently good A-D and D-A converters, the reproduced sound should be pretty well indistinguishable from the original to most ears. > > Where you start getting audible differences is when digital audio compression is used. Digital audio compression can drastically reduce the amount of data needed, which means that more audio can be stored in a given amount of memory, or for streaming and broadcasting, less bandwidth is needed to transmit it. > > Compressed formats include MiniDisc, or for computer storage, MP3 and AAC. DAB radio uses digital compression too. A typical MP3 file might need less than 20% of the data used by a CD. Streaming might squeeze what would originally be 100kB into less than 15kB. Obviously when you?re throwing away 80-85% of the original data, something has to give and the reproduced audio is sufficiently different that an untrained ear can detect the difference in A/B comparisons, but will most likely regard the reproduced audio as being acceptably good if listened to in isolation. A small reduction in quality would be a sensible trade off in return for storing much more music on a portable device, or having more radio channels available. > > Digital audio compression cleverly exploits a number of psychoacoustic techniques in order to mask what it?s doing. Because different tricks are used to fool the ears and brain by different compression systems, you can?t simply compare the number of bits, sample rates, or megabytes used in order to deduce that one should sound better than another. What you hear does not necessarily relate to what you can measure. If you want to know more, try doing a search for ?how digital audio compression works? and choose an article which suits your preferred level of detail. > > Alan > >> On 13 Sep 2022, at 10:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ? That was minidisc. >> N. >> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad >> >>> On 13 Sep 2022, at 10:37, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that coding the audio onto CD dispenses with frequencies that are 'masked' by stronger levels. From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Tue Sep 13 09:02:35 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 15:02:35 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Frozen greens In-Reply-To: References: <3A910985-CA91-4DAB-B67A-0E78EBF52CCB@howell61.f9.co.uk> <8bdd6c4d-5097-27dd-2e06-70449b0d87ce@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Grow up, Pat! Frozen Brussel Sprouts are perfectly OK, if you can't get fresh ones! Frozen cabbage and whole-leaf spinach also. Cheers, Dave From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Sep 13 10:08:08 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 16:08:08 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Frozen greens In-Reply-To: References: <3A910985-CA91-4DAB-B67A-0E78EBF52CCB@howell61.f9.co.uk> <8bdd6c4d-5097-27dd-2e06-70449b0d87ce@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <7854352c-5a39-d779-e508-9a6747243020@amps.net> I'm not good with veg, whether frozen or fresh. This is a constant battle with my GP and consultants who would like to force greens down my gullet! My close friends married excellent cooks, and I am happy to munch their lightly cooked cabbage, with a Sunday roast and might actually have /two/ brussels at Christmas. I hated my prep school food, and that's why I never grew up to be a big strong lad, although I was paid a? compliment by a camera guy who was impressed with my mic pole handling. He said: " There's nothing to Pat, but when the pole goes in, it never varies - he must be quite strong!" I gave him the pole to try, but insisted he held it at the very end, not halfway up! Mind you, when occasionally I looked after a second camera on a PSC shoot, I couldn't get to grips with framing, focussing and zooming at the same time. Not too bad with a Handycam, though! The BBC at least taught me (via Jim Atkinson, in half an hour) the principles of composition and framing! Thank you BBC. Pat H On 13/09/2022 15:02, dave.mdv wrote: > Grow up, Pat! Frozen Brussel Sprouts are perfectly OK, if you can't > get fresh ones! Frozen cabbage and whole-leaf spinach also. Cheers, Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Sep 13 11:40:45 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 17:40:45 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Frozen greens In-Reply-To: <633C3BB4-4840-4B7C-84C5-DB86B48CE5D5@sky.com> References: <7854352c-5a39-d779-e508-9a6747243020@amps.net> <633C3BB4-4840-4B7C-84C5-DB86B48CE5D5@sky.com> Message-ID: <680bd0da-f575-d329-2272-cb35f1f51631@amps.net> Splendid, Barry! I was useless at any field sports at school, so in order to avoid cricket, I joined the rifle club, where we lay around on the quad and practised letting off the trigger without wavering the aim. To my surprise, I was a fairly good shot at Bisley, and gaining a place on the team 8, was entitled to wear the white edged blazer up with the rugger first fifteen and cricket eleven. (think that was all to do with the snob education) However, I could hold my head up - in fact visiting a friend in Canada and having a go on the Toronto police gun range, I got offered a job with their Armed Response Unit! The weapon was the Heckler & Koch MP5 which I believe is standard issue amongst many police forces. I had it set to single shot, rather than automatic. I'm very comfortable around firearms. It annoys me in cop movies where they hold the weapon pointing up and come down to the target - wrong! One needs to know how one is aiming, how far to go to target, therefore keeping both target and foresight in view, always come up from below. But dramatically looks better the other way. I used to keep my rifle at home together with 50 rounds of ammunition. This got stamped on during the Irish 'troubles' as it could have been stolen, so after that it was kept in the armoury at Bisley. Had to be inspected every year by the Police. Arranged a meeting with them, who turned up a bit late - sorry, they said, had to make an arrest en route. The felon was cowering in the backseat, wondering what was in store for him, being taken to a rifle range! Unfortunately, had to give up shooting as the gunfire ruined my hearing - not good for a sound man! Pat H On 13/09/2022 16:36, B Wilkinson wrote: > I am convinced that any green food is bad for you. Also that cycling, > jogging and power walking are lethal.? I have managed to get to 75 and > three quarters avoiding all of those, despite my school excellence at > sprinting and rugby union. > > Sent from my iPad > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nick at nickway.co.uk Wed Sep 14 01:16:34 2022 From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 07:16:34 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tech1] Frozen greens In-Reply-To: <680bd0da-f575-d329-2272-cb35f1f51631@amps.net> References: <7854352c-5a39-d779-e508-9a6747243020@amps.net> <633C3BB4-4840-4B7C-84C5-DB86B48CE5D5@sky.com> <680bd0da-f575-d329-2272-cb35f1f51631@amps.net> Message-ID: <910494421.4115069.1663136194354@email.ionos.co.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 02:02:07 2022 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 08:02:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Thank you Ma'am for everything... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Paddington and the Queen has captured, it seems, the imagination of many and enchanted the whole population. >From Facebook... Best regards Alec Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections... ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Alec Bray Date: Tue, 13 Sept 2022, 19:57 Subject: Thank you ma'am To: Alec Bray Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: facebook_1663095410287_6975527731749825627.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 23147 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 02:14:56 2022 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 08:14:56 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] And another! Message-ID: Alec Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: facebook_1663139659309_6975713325600906695.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 104808 bytes Desc: not available URL: From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 03:45:44 2022 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 09:45:44 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Picture of The Queen on front cover of Radio Times Message-ID: <6D59C029-0290-495A-BBA7-522C9C8906AA@gmail.com> I know it?s a matter of opinion but to put it mildly, I don?t think much of the picture of The Queen on the front cover of Radio Times for next week. It may be sometimes done, though not always, to choose an image of the deceased in their younger day or their prime, rather than one when they are aged, but there are far better ones the editor could?ve chosen as we?ve been shown extensively over the last few days. In any case surely most people, even those of our generation will think of her as she was over say the last decade when still fit, well and active and not as this unnatural looking figure rendered in monochrome. Perhaps others of you who by dint of your work or interests, are able to defend the choice or at least explain it but I can?t, Geoff Hawkes From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Sep 14 04:28:46 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 10:28:46 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Picture of The Queen on front cover of Radio Times In-Reply-To: <6D59C029-0290-495A-BBA7-522C9C8906AA@gmail.com> References: <6D59C029-0290-495A-BBA7-522C9C8906AA@gmail.com> Message-ID: I agree that the monochrome image is somewhat gloomy. I did like the photo on the cover of Radio Times for the Platinum Jubilee issue - really nice. (attached) I believe that the late Queen possessed a wicked sense of humour which explains her readiness to appear with Paddington, and that brilliant sketch with James Bond for the Olympics opening. (Connections to two Bond's there!) Pat On 14/09/2022 09:45, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote: > I know it?s a matter of opinion but to put it mildly, I don?t think much of the picture of The Queen on the front cover of Radio Times for next week. It may be sometimes done, though not always, to choose an image of the deceased in their younger day or their prime, rather than one when they are aged, but there are far better ones the editor could?ve chosen as we?ve been shown extensively over the last few days. > In any case surely most people, even those of our generation will think of her as she was over say the last decade when still fit, well and active and not as this unnatural looking figure rendered in monochrome. > Perhaps others of you who by dint of your work or interests, are able to defend the choice or at least explain it but I can?t, > > Geoff Hawkes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: s-l1600.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 288836 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Wed Sep 14 04:28:57 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 10:28:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Picture of The Queen on front cover of Radio Times In-Reply-To: <6D59C029-0290-495A-BBA7-522C9C8906AA@gmail.com> References: <6D59C029-0290-495A-BBA7-522C9C8906AA@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6C2BDDF1-01B5-46FA-92E4-6FAFC1A6A423@me.com> I agree and would have used a different photograph, such as the official one used by the palace. It is a much more informal picture than most, but that?s possibly why it was not used. But perhaps more interesting to many of the people here is the story behind how that picture was taken. It?s a fascinating insight into how a photographer can capture the personality of her subject rather than just take a picture. As is so often the case, a bit of luck comes into it too, but so does the dexterity of taking full advantage of any opportunity which comes along. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/09/the-story-behind-the-portrait-of-the-queen-the-palace-used-to-announce-her-death Jane Brown regularly photographed for the Observer. They published a gallery of her pictures after she passed away in 2014. The gallery includes her picture of Samuel Beckett, which was also briefly mentioned in that article. https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2014/dec/21/jane-bown-a-life-in-photography-in-pictures Alan > On 14 Sep 2022, at 09:46, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote: > > ?I know it?s a matter of opinion but to put it mildly, I don?t think much of the picture of The Queen on the front cover of Radio Times for next week. It may be sometimes done, though not always, to choose an image of the deceased in their younger day or their prime, rather than one when they are aged, but there are far better ones the editor could?ve chosen as we?ve been shown extensively over the last few days. > In any case surely most people, even those of our generation will think of her as she was over say the last decade when still fit, well and active and not as this unnatural looking figure rendered in monochrome. > Perhaps others of you who by dint of your work or interests, are able to defend the choice or at least explain it but I can?t, > > Geoff Hawkes > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Wed Sep 14 05:42:05 2022 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 11:42:05 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Picture of The Queen on front cover of Radio Times Message-ID: <620B8AEA-3620-41E8-B987-F9574C93BB95@mac.com> ? Never mind the niceties of capturing character, this seems to have been taken on a wideish angle lens too close to the subject. I made the same mistake when our granddaughter was first born and regret it to this day, some eighteen years later - but at least I have the excuse of being a sound man, not a professional photographer! I have never re searched or experimented, but no doubt it?s possible to correct lens distortion now. Mike G > On 14 Sep 2022, at 10:29, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > ? > I agree and would have used a different photograph, such as the official one used by the palace. It is a much more informal picture than most, but that?s possibly why it was not used. > > But perhaps more interesting to many of the people here is the story behind how that picture was taken. It?s a fascinating insight into how a photographer can capture the personality of her subject rather than just take a picture. As is so often the case, a bit of luck comes into it too, but so does the dexterity of taking full advantage of any opportunity which comes along. > > https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/09/the-story-behind-the-portrait-of-the-queen-the-palace-used-to-announce-her-death > > Jane Brown regularly photographed for the Observer. They published a gallery of her pictures after she passed away in 2014. The gallery includes her picture of Samuel Beckett, which was also briefly mentioned in that article. > > https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2014/dec/21/jane-bown-a-life-in-photography-in-pictures > > Alan > > >> On 14 Sep 2022, at 09:46, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote: >> ?I know it?s a matter of opinion but to put it mildly, I don?t think much of the picture of The Queen on the front cover of Radio Times for next week. It may be sometimes done, though not always, to choose an image of the deceased in their younger day or their prime, rather than one when they are aged, but there are far better ones the editor could?ve chosen as we?ve been shown extensively over the last few days. >> In any case surely most people, even those of our generation will think of her as she was over say the last decade when still fit, well and active and not as this unnatural looking figure rendered in monochrome. >> Perhaps others of you who by dint of your work or interests, are able to defend the choice or at least explain it but I can?t, >> >> Geoff Hawkes >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 06:26:06 2022 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 12:26:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Picture of The Queen on front cover of Radio Times In-Reply-To: <620B8AEA-3620-41E8-B987-F9574C93BB95@mac.com> References: <620B8AEA-3620-41E8-B987-F9574C93BB95@mac.com> Message-ID: <46ab8d98-9135-cbbf-2a0e-1d74017650f2@gmail.com> Hi Mike On 14/09/2022 11:42, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > no doubt it?s possible to correct lens distortion now. One quick example:? Paint Shop Pro This example? has variables set to zero... Hope that this is of interest! Best regards, Alec -- ======= Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Mob: 07789 561 346 Tel: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: GmASaSxdjlaPshIf.png Type: image/png Size: 30060 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: WCzjQDnHNIoZ3xdq.png Type: image/png Size: 245145 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Wed Sep 14 06:55:57 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 12:55:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Picture of The Queen on front cover of Radio Times In-Reply-To: <620B8AEA-3620-41E8-B987-F9574C93BB95@mac.com> References: <620B8AEA-3620-41E8-B987-F9574C93BB95@mac.com> Message-ID: <7166120B-1C91-404A-AA5E-E3864493599D@me.com> > Mike Giles wrote: > ? this seems to have been taken on a wideish angle lens too close to the subject? There was a time when the Radio Times would have favoured a picture taken with a wide angle lens. One of the regular Radio Times photographers always used a, particularly wide angle lens. If there was a crowd of snappers, you could instantly spot him as he was always trying to get closer to the subject. Alan From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 07:08:58 2022 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 13:08:58 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Picture of The Queen on front cover of Radio Times In-Reply-To: <7166120B-1C91-404A-AA5E-E3864493599D@me.com> References: <7166120B-1C91-404A-AA5E-E3864493599D@me.com> Message-ID: <82DF4CCC-A336-4FB4-9461-D9BF1E4CFCC2@gmail.com> It was one of the first things I noticed that it appeared to suffer from wide angle distortion and I, though a cameraman and photographer have occasionally erred in that way myself by wanting to stay close to the subject to say a few words to put them at ease when would?ve been better to step back a bit and tighten the lens angle, which with zoom lenses is no problem. It?s another reason why I think that photo was bad choice but I don?t know what influenced it, Geoff > On 14 Sep 2022, at 12:56, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > > ? >> >> Mike Giles wrote: >> ? this seems to have been taken on a wideish angle lens too close to the subject? > > There was a time when the Radio Times would have favoured a picture taken with a wide angle lens. One of the regular Radio Times photographers always used a, particularly wide angle lens. If there was a crowd of snappers, you could instantly spot him as he was always trying to get closer to the subject. > > Alan > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From waresound at msn.com Wed Sep 14 09:15:50 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 14:15:50 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Picture of The Queen on front cover of Radio Times In-Reply-To: <46ab8d98-9135-cbbf-2a0e-1d74017650f2@gmail.com> References: <620B8AEA-3620-41E8-B987-F9574C93BB95@mac.com> <46ab8d98-9135-cbbf-2a0e-1d74017650f2@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, but don?t confuse lens distortion with perspective distortion. Cheers, Nick (Paint Shop Pro user and lifelong photography nerd). Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad On 14 Sep 2022, at 13:26, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: ? Hi Mike On 14/09/2022 11:42, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: no doubt it?s possible to correct lens distortion now. One quick example: Paint Shop Pro [GmASaSxdjlaPshIf.png] [WCzjQDnHNIoZ3xdq.png] This example has variables set to zero... Hope that this is of interest! Best regards, Alec -- ======= Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Mob: 07789 561 346 Tel: 0118 981 7502 -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: GmASaSxdjlaPshIf.png Type: image/png Size: 30060 bytes Desc: GmASaSxdjlaPshIf.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: WCzjQDnHNIoZ3xdq.png Type: image/png Size: 245145 bytes Desc: WCzjQDnHNIoZ3xdq.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: GmASaSxdjlaPshIf.png Type: image/png Size: 30060 bytes Desc: GmASaSxdjlaPshIf.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: WCzjQDnHNIoZ3xdq.png Type: image/png Size: 245145 bytes Desc: WCzjQDnHNIoZ3xdq.png URL: From tuckergarth at me.com Wed Sep 14 10:44:31 2022 From: tuckergarth at me.com (Garth Tucker) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 16:44:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Portraits Message-ID: <54EB47EE-54BB-4B57-B63B-FD106844FECE@me.com> My son, a professional photographer, reckons an 85mm lens is best for MCUs. I?ve tried, he could be right. Garth From keithwicksuk at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 12:15:13 2022 From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:15:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Portraits In-Reply-To: <54EB47EE-54BB-4B57-B63B-FD106844FECE@me.com> References: <54EB47EE-54BB-4B57-B63B-FD106844FECE@me.com> Message-ID: It depends on what size of film or light-sensitive device is being used. (Perhaps the use of equivalent 35 mm sizes has become standard by now ? I don?t know about that.) And I?m sure someone from TV will correct me if I?m wrong, but I?m assuming that an MCU is approximately equivalent to what a still photographer would call a portrait. In general, use a focal length about 50% longer than ?standard? for the camera in use. This will ensure that the camera is not too close to the subject, so a protruding nose, knee (or any other body part) will not appear to be too large. When I was taking portraits on a full-frame 35 mm film camera, I used an 80 mm lens. When I used a 2?? square film camera, I fitted a 105 mm lens for portraits. KW On Wed, 14 Sept 2022 at 16:45, Garth Tucker via Tech1 wrote: > My son, a professional photographer, reckons an 85mm lens is best for > MCUs. I?ve tried, he could be right. > > Garth > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Wed Sep 14 12:20:52 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:20:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Portraits In-Reply-To: <54EB47EE-54BB-4B57-B63B-FD106844FECE@me.com> References: <54EB47EE-54BB-4B57-B63B-FD106844FECE@me.com> Message-ID: Certainly for many years most of the classically popular lenses for portraiture were 90 mm focal length or thereabouts and likely still are so your professional adviser would find plenty of support! Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: Garth Tucker via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 4:44 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Portraits My son, a professional photographer, reckons an 85mm lens is best for MCUs. I?ve tried, he could be right. Garth -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 12:58:37 2022 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:58:37 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] OB unit at NI today Message-ID: Chris Woods posted this on Facebook - BBC Engineering - the OB unit at NI today Best regards Alec Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: facebook_1663178162885_6975874821303784003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 42809 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mibridge at mac.com Wed Sep 14 16:29:14 2022 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 22:29:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Picture of The Queen on front cover of Radio Times In-Reply-To: References: <620B8AEA-3620-41E8-B987-F9574C93BB95@mac.com> <46ab8d98-9135-cbbf-2a0e-1d74017650f2@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the correction in terminology Nick ~ something I knew perfectly well but I?m sure you know the way that the required words slip from memory just when they are needed! Laziness on my part because I could always have done a Google for the right phrase, even if the French think we should be using other search engines ~ I couldn?t possibly comment. And thanks Alec for pointing me in the PhotoShop direction ~ I had presumed there would be a specific app. Mike G > On 14 Sep 2022, at 15:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > Yes, but don?t confuse lens distortion with perspective distortion. > Cheers, > Nick (Paint Shop Pro user and lifelong photography nerd). > > Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad > >> On 14 Sep 2022, at 13:26, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ? >> Hi Mike >> >> On 14/09/2022 11:42, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >>> no doubt it?s possible to correct lens distortion now. >> >> One quick example: Paint Shop Pro >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This example has variables set to zero... >> >> >> >> Hope that this is of interest! >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> >> Alec >> >> -- >> ======= >> >> Alec Bray >> >> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com >> Mob: 07789 561 346 >> Tel: 0118 981 7502 >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Wed Sep 14 17:09:55 2022 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 23:09:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <97ab8148-0d41-7c70-74ff-d2ce30409361@amps.net> References: <176b63c7-125f-f7c0-4a4e-74f745473011@amps.net> <7A39C729-C3B8-4D81-A9E3-E8B6EF4B02D5@gmail.com> <97ab8148-0d41-7c70-74ff-d2ce30409361@amps.net> Message-ID: <6A1C740D-0646-48DE-B52B-7F726C3C49EC@howell61.f9.co.uk> Did the Queen leave a will? How much d'you think she's worth? It could pay my gas bill in January! Hibou > On 9 Sep 2022, at 19:29, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > Our new King has cleared up the question that we have been discussing. > > William inherits the Cornwall titles and also is appointed Prince of Wales From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Sep 15 02:35:45 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 08:35:45 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The procession Message-ID: <67537897-aa76-6e18-9938-498a95008df8@amps.net> Rather impressed with the coverage of the Procession, yesterday. A huge rig by the looks of it. And amazing organisation. Wondered whether there was a radio mic on the bass drum as the quality was consistent all the way? However, I missed the gravitas that Richard Dimbleby would have brought to these occasions. Pat H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Sep 15 04:16:22 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 10:16:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <6A1C740D-0646-48DE-B52B-7F726C3C49EC@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <176b63c7-125f-f7c0-4a4e-74f745473011@amps.net> <7A39C729-C3B8-4D81-A9E3-E8B6EF4B02D5@gmail.com> <97ab8148-0d41-7c70-74ff-d2ce30409361@amps.net> <6A1C740D-0646-48DE-B52B-7F726C3C49EC@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: <339f191f-f1a2-f4fb-b8d8-00fb972d942c@amps.net> Hi Hibou, The attached answers some questions: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/13/royal-family-wealth-charles-inheritance/ If one can trust the Internet. Think your gas bill would be in credit for many years! Mind you, the upkeep on all the Royal properties must soak up a few quid. /"But it all makes work for the working man to do!"/ Was that Flanders & Swann? I think so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8X8IlrTy50 Pat On 14/09/2022 23:09, John Howell wrote: > Did the Queen leave a will? How much d'you think she's worth? > It could pay my gas bill in January! > > Hibou > >> On 9 Sep 2022, at 19:29, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Our new King has cleared up the question that we have been discussing. >> >> William inherits the Cornwall titles and also is appointed Prince of Wales -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rerb2 at cam.ac.uk Thu Sep 15 08:33:36 2022 From: rerb2 at cam.ac.uk (R.E.R. Bunce) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 13:33:36 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] A Sense of Guilt, Pets Win Prizes Message-ID: <6869FF6E-66AC-4E8E-A222-4611AE385318@cam.ac.uk> Dear All, One of the shows I remember my dad working on very clearly was A Sense of Guilt, which was broadcast on BBC1 in 1990, if memory serves. Today, I found two of my dad?s souvenir baseball caps, one from A Sense of Guilt The other from Pets Win Prizes. Going back A couple of decades, I remember my dad talking about Nigel Kneale?s The Stone Tape (1972). Does anyone know if my dad worked on The Stone Tape? What does anyone have any recollections of working on the show? Pictures of baseball caps attached! Best wishes all, Robin[cid:D1A8737B-3066-4BE9-B4EB-F8DC8DCCD7A1-L0-001][cid:6894A6E4-F8AB-473C-939B-4E90A0484927-L0-001] Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 427248 bytes Desc: image0.jpeg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 446243 bytes Desc: image1.jpeg URL: From geoffletch at gmail.com Thu Sep 15 15:05:48 2022 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2022 21:05:48 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Royal Protocol In-Reply-To: <339f191f-f1a2-f4fb-b8d8-00fb972d942c@amps.net> References: <176b63c7-125f-f7c0-4a4e-74f745473011@amps.net> <7A39C729-C3B8-4D81-A9E3-E8B6EF4B02D5@gmail.com> <97ab8148-0d41-7c70-74ff-d2ce30409361@amps.net> <6A1C740D-0646-48DE-B52B-7F726C3C49EC@howell61.f9.co.uk> <339f191f-f1a2-f4fb-b8d8-00fb972d942c@amps.net> Message-ID: Sure it wasn?t Karl Marx Pat? ? On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 at 10:16, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > Hi Hibou, > > The attached answers some questions: > > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/13/royal-family-wealth-charles-inheritance/ > > If one can trust the Internet. > > Think your gas bill would be in credit for many years! > > Mind you, the upkeep on all the Royal properties must soak up a few quid. > > *"But it all makes work for the working man to do!"* > > Was that Flanders & Swann? I think so. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8X8IlrTy50 > > Pat > > > On 14/09/2022 23:09, John Howell wrote: > > Did the Queen leave a will? How much d'you think she's worth? > It could pay my gas bill in January! > > Hibou > > > On 9 Sep 2022, at 19:29, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > Our new King has cleared up the question that we have been discussing. > > William inherits the Cornwall titles and also is appointed Prince of Wales > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philiptyler at me.com Fri Sep 16 07:48:26 2022 From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2022 13:48:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC doing Facebooks job for them. Message-ID: <4C4A3706-530F-4858-A9F4-57B2FD9B690A@me.com> Anti-vax groups use carrot emojis to hide Facebook posts https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-62877597 Philip and Bee https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Sat Sep 17 06:45:43 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:45:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... Message-ID: <71357cc2-a85e-3f7d-41c1-fbe61c0ab4e1@gmail.com> Boiler packed up. Only being used for hot water this time of year. Last service chap I used not answering his mobile number. He was Eastern European, so perhaps gone home. Went to the maker's site and chose a local firm from a list of their approved repairers. Phoned them and made an appointment for last Monday. Chap arrived, had a fiddle, and said it was too old to be worth repairing. But said he would replace the fan - at my risk, so no warranty - for ?1100. But said I'd be best to replace the boiler at about ?4000. As it happens, I installed the boiler myself, so quite familiar with it. The fan is pretty accessible, and held in by four Allen head set screws. Retail price of the fan, from the boiler maker, ?212 delivered. So about ?900 for an hour or so labour. Out of interest, the fan is made by Papst. Better know to us as makers of tape machine capstan motors. From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Sat Sep 17 07:14:38 2022 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 13:14:38 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <71357cc2-a85e-3f7d-41c1-fbe61c0ab4e1@gmail.com> References: <71357cc2-a85e-3f7d-41c1-fbe61c0ab4e1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <78B84A50C2AD4E7D89DE73895C869C8A@Gigabyte> I did similar with our orange Vax cleaner. Motor available online and, apart from having to file gap to re-route some leads, all well. Definitely cheaper than a new machine. I must admit I dread problems with my boiler - installed by me over 30years ago - done the flame checker thingy a couple of times and, when Cadent came to re-gas our street, the igniter would not work but an oven gas lighter probe through the observation window did the job and got thanks from the gas bloke who was about to give up when he came for the final Cadent check. They were brilliant feeding the new plastic pipe through my bendy main but I had to provide 2 kettles of boiling water to pour into the old steel pipe so the plastic pipe went bendy - although they cut the new pipe down to half size so it goes around corners - and went around a couple of bends under the front garden! Mike -----Original Message----- From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2022 12:45 PM To: TechOps Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... Boiler packed up. Only being used for hot water this time of year. Last service chap I used not answering his mobile number. He was Eastern European, so perhaps gone home. Went to the maker's site and chose a local firm from a list of their approved repairers. Phoned them and made an appointment for last Monday. Chap arrived, had a fiddle, and said it was too old to be worth repairing. But said he would replace the fan - at my risk, so no warranty - for ?1100. But said I'd be best to replace the boiler at about ?4000. As it happens, I installed the boiler myself, so quite familiar with it. The fan is pretty accessible, and held in by four Allen head set screws. Retail price of the fan, from the boiler maker, ?212 delivered. So about ?900 for an hour or so labour. Out of interest, the fan is made by Papst. Better know to us as makers of tape machine capstan motors. From hughsnape at talktalk.net Sat Sep 17 13:22:59 2022 From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 19:22:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <71357cc2-a85e-3f7d-41c1-fbe61c0ab4e1@gmail.com> References: <71357cc2-a85e-3f7d-41c1-fbe61c0ab4e1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9A83D1FB-F19F-4CB7-9AFC-80F13BE5A0CC@talktalk.net> Yes we too have an elderly boiler with a top mounted fan (Ideal Classic.) Twenty plus years old, yet it feels only yesterday that it was being installed. But we?re lucky as our local service engineer is only a bit younger than we are and cut his teeth on such models so he?s quite happy to go on servicing it. NB, the boiler?s been through 2 fans in its life so far. The design is unfortunate as, being top mounted, the heat from below dries out the bearings and the fans inevitably seize despite regular lubrication . . . Hugh > On 17 Sep 2022, at 12:45, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > Boiler packed up. Only being used for hot water this time of year. Last service chap I used not answering his mobile number. He was Eastern European, so perhaps gone home. > > Went to the maker's site and chose a local firm from a list of their approved repairers. Phoned them and made an appointment for last Monday. > > Chap arrived, had a fiddle, and said it was too old to be worth repairing. But said he would replace the fan - at my risk, so no warranty - for ?1100. But said I'd be best to replace the boiler at about ?4000. > > As it happens, I installed the boiler myself, so quite familiar with it. The fan is pretty accessible, and held in by four Allen head set screws. > > Retail price of the fan, from the boiler maker, ?212 delivered. So about ?900 for an hour or so labour. > > Out of interest, the fan is made by Papst. Better know to us as makers of tape machine capstan motors. > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From alanaudio at me.com Sat Sep 17 14:13:56 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 20:13:56 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <9A83D1FB-F19F-4CB7-9AFC-80F13BE5A0CC@talktalk.net> References: <9A83D1FB-F19F-4CB7-9AFC-80F13BE5A0CC@talktalk.net> Message-ID: As it happens, we had our boiler replaced a couple of weeks ago. The old one was installed by the previous owners and the manufacturer?s date code revealed that it was quite a few years older than we were led to believe. When any stuff like that is taken out, I take a look to see if there are any handy components which are worth salvaging, but there really wasn?t much at all. Pretty well everything was showing signs of wear or corrosion. It was definitely the right course of action to replace it rather than patch it up. It cost ?4.4K to have it supplied and fitted and then I needed 1,000 litres of heating oil to get us through the winter. We knew we needed to fill the oil tank, but the boiler was one of those unexpected expenses which comes along to mess up your plans. Alan > On 17 Sep 2022, at 19:23, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Yes we too have an elderly boiler with a top mounted fan (Ideal Classic.) Twenty plus years old, yet it feels only yesterday that it was being installed. But we?re lucky as our local service engineer is only a bit younger than we are and cut his teeth on such models so he?s quite happy to go on servicing it. > > NB, the boiler?s been through 2 fans in its life so far. The design is unfortunate as, being top mounted, the heat from below dries out the bearings and the fans inevitably seize despite regular lubrication . . . > > Hugh > >> On 17 Sep 2022, at 12:45, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Boiler packed up. Only being used for hot water this time of year. Last service chap I used not answering his mobile number. He was Eastern European, so perhaps gone home. >> >> Went to the maker's site and chose a local firm from a list of their approved repairers. Phoned them and made an appointment for last Monday. >> >> Chap arrived, had a fiddle, and said it was too old to be worth repairing. But said he would replace the fan - at my risk, so no warranty - for ?1100. But said I'd be best to replace the boiler at about ?4000. >> >> As it happens, I installed the boiler myself, so quite familiar with it. The fan is pretty accessible, and held in by four Allen head set screws. >> >> Retail price of the fan, from the boiler maker, ?212 delivered. So about ?900 for an hour or so labour. >> >> Out of interest, the fan is made by Papst. Better know to us as makers of tape machine capstan motors. >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dave at davesound.co.uk Sat Sep 17 17:25:16 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 23:25:16 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <9A83D1FB-F19F-4CB7-9AFC-80F13BE5A0CC@talktalk.net> References: <71357cc2-a85e-3f7d-41c1-fbe61c0ab4e1@gmail.com> <9A83D1FB-F19F-4CB7-9AFC-80F13BE5A0CC@talktalk.net> Message-ID: Old to my chap seemed to be anything over 10 years. And this one is a state of the art (at the time) Viessmann 200W. Microprocessor controlled with onboard diagnostics. Which gave the fault as the fan. It is mounted low down. I'd guessed on a fan (or controller) problem as the fan normally runs at full speed when the boiler first starts up. I presume to vent out the burner chamber? fully. And reverts to normal speed when the? boiler fires. It was only running at normal speed when first switched on, so something not right. The service manual (provided with the boiler) isn't that comprehensive. Perhaps just to nudge an engineer already trained on the boiler in the right direction. The software in particular being a nightmare (to set up the weather compensation, etc) Later versions are Wi-Fi connected and do this via a PC. Odd thing I discovered when installing it (and having a good look round) is that all the high current outputs on the PCB are relay switched - and with PCB fuses (though hole mounting) on those outputs. No mention of those fuses at all in the manual. On 17/09/2022 19:22, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: > Yes we too have an elderly boiler with a top mounted fan (Ideal Classic.) Twenty plus years old, yet it feels only yesterday that it was being installed. But we?re lucky as our local service engineer is only a bit younger than we are and cut his teeth on such models so he?s quite happy to go on servicing it. > > NB, the boiler?s been through 2 fans in its life so far. The design is unfortunate as, being top mounted, the heat from below dries out the bearings and the fans inevitably seize despite regular lubrication . . . > > Hugh > >> On 17 Sep 2022, at 12:45, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Boiler packed up. Only being used for hot water this time of year. Last service chap I used not answering his mobile number. He was Eastern European, so perhaps gone home. >> >> Went to the maker's site and chose a local firm from a list of their approved repairers. Phoned them and made an appointment for last Monday. >> >> Chap arrived, had a fiddle, and said it was too old to be worth repairing. But said he would replace the fan - at my risk, so no warranty - for ?1100. But said I'd be best to replace the boiler at about ?4000. >> >> As it happens, I installed the boiler myself, so quite familiar with it. The fan is pretty accessible, and held in by four Allen head set screws. >> >> Retail price of the fan, from the boiler maker, ?212 delivered. So about ?900 for an hour or so labour. >> >> Out of interest, the fan is made by Papst. Better know to us as makers of tape machine capstan motors. >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- Dave P London SW From gregg300341 at gmail.com Sun Sep 18 04:05:20 2022 From: gregg300341 at gmail.com (John Ade) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 10:05:20 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... References: <71357cc2-a85e-3f7d-41c1-fbe61c0ab4e1@gmail.com> <9A83D1FB-F19F-4CB7-9AFC-80F13BE5A0CC@talktalk.net> Message-ID: <7p33wi-tvkm57-qh1jf3-h59mw3-w9lueo-zbkcqz-uwqhiz-tjq0fgug0kj3-20sh1iour51zhxvrqr-y26vze-qt3row-ueamx9-qhr3q1-rey5h2-2vuwxl-dkl35lr7pp67fuavhg4rr31boxyexi-hd2d3o.1663491920463@email.android.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alawrance1 at me.com Sun Sep 18 05:39:41 2022 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 11:39:41 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: References: <71357cc2-a85e-3f7d-41c1-fbe61c0ab4e1@gmail.com> <9A83D1FB-F19F-4CB7-9AFC-80F13BE5A0CC@talktalk.net> Message-ID: <158005D0-DDFE-4908-A8B1-4FCF7ADF0CC0@me.com> Slightly off-topic, but we've just had to replace the built-in dishwasher after 16 years. It was working quite happily until we realised that the Karndean tiles were beginning to lift near it, and further investigation revealed significant leakage from the machine door. This failure meant we never saw it, because the water gathers behind the kick-plate/skirting below the cupboards - something to watch for if you have the same arrangement. The new machine, also Bosch, fits perfectly and we found a local man who gave us good price for it, including installation and disposal of the old. Needless to say, it has wi-fi which I have yet to investigate, but it does have a little red light which shines on the floor to tell you it's still working through the program. I like things like that. Alasdair Lawrance alawrance1 at me.com Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > On 17 Sep 2022, at 23:25, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > Old to my chap seemed to be anything over 10 years. And this one is a state of the art (at the time) Viessmann 200W. Microprocessor controlled with onboard diagnostics. Which gave the fault as the fan. It is mounted low down. I'd guessed on a fan (or controller) problem as the fan normally runs at full speed when the boiler first starts up. I presume to vent out the burner chamber fully. And reverts to normal speed when the boiler fires. It was only running at normal speed when first switched on, so something not right. > > The service manual (provided with the boiler) isn't that comprehensive. Perhaps just to nudge an engineer already trained on the boiler in the right direction. The software in particular being a nightmare (to set up the weather compensation, etc) Later versions are Wi-Fi connected and do this via a PC. > > Odd thing I discovered when installing it (and having a good look round) is that all the high current outputs on the PCB are relay switched - and with PCB fuses (though hole mounting) on those outputs. No mention of those fuses at all in the manual. > > On 17/09/2022 19:22, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: >> Yes we too have an elderly boiler with a top mounted fan (Ideal Classic.) Twenty plus years old, yet it feels only yesterday that it was being installed. But we?re lucky as our local service engineer is only a bit younger than we are and cut his teeth on such models so he?s quite happy to go on servicing it. >> >> NB, the boiler?s been through 2 fans in its life so far. The design is unfortunate as, being top mounted, the heat from below dries out the bearings and the fans inevitably seize despite regular lubrication . . . >> >> Hugh >> >>> On 17 Sep 2022, at 12:45, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> Boiler packed up. Only being used for hot water this time of year. Last service chap I used not answering his mobile number. He was Eastern European, so perhaps gone home. >>> >>> Went to the maker's site and chose a local firm from a list of their approved repairers. Phoned them and made an appointment for last Monday. >>> >>> Chap arrived, had a fiddle, and said it was too old to be worth repairing. But said he would replace the fan - at my risk, so no warranty - for ?1100. But said I'd be best to replace the boiler at about ?4000. >>> >>> As it happens, I installed the boiler myself, so quite familiar with it. The fan is pretty accessible, and held in by four Allen head set screws. >>> >>> Retail price of the fan, from the boiler maker, ?212 delivered. So about ?900 for an hour or so labour. >>> >>> Out of interest, the fan is made by Papst. Better know to us as makers of tape machine capstan motors. >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > -- > Dave P London > SW > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Sun Sep 18 05:48:15 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 11:48:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <7p33wi-tvkm57-qh1jf3-h59mw3-w9lueo-zbkcqz-uwqhiz-tjq0fgug0kj3-20sh1iour51zhxvrqr-y26vze-qt3row-ueamx9-qhr3q1-rey5h2-2vuwxl-dkl35lr7pp67fuavhg4rr31boxyexi-hd2d3o.1663491920463@email.android.com> References: <71357cc2-a85e-3f7d-41c1-fbe61c0ab4e1@gmail.com> <9A83D1FB-F19F-4CB7-9AFC-80F13BE5A0CC@talktalk.net> <7p33wi-tvkm57-qh1jf3-h59mw3-w9lueo-zbkcqz-uwqhiz-tjq0fgug0kj3-20sh1iour51zhxvrqr-y26vze-qt3row-ueamx9-qhr3q1-rey5h2-2vuwxl-dkl35lr7pp67fuavhg4rr31boxyexi-hd2d3o.1663491920463@email.android.com> Message-ID: <0f78bada-6e65-6e76-563d-25bb13f23174@chriswoolf.co.uk> Sadly 10 years really is a typical design life, and trying to keep anything going longer than that becomes a problem. In fairness to manufacturers a great deal changes in that length of time - electronic components often go through a complete series change, control and instruction systems that make use of the web will be outdated, government and international rules on safety etc can completely change designs. I have a 17 year old Defender - exchanged from new for some work on the garage's computers for a nominal ?10k. I've just had it fitted with a galvanised chassis, and a few other bits replaced - well worth it because it has gone up in value by about 130% - but despite the demand for these iconic vehicles, and that production only stopped in 2016, it is almost impossible to get spare parts from Landrover. Fortunately the very high value of them means that after-market suppliers can provide most stuff and keep them running, but the short-termism of modern constructions is a big problem. Most crappy timber-framed houses that people are buying (and not distinguishing from more solid masonry built versions) only have a design life of 40 years, and may be demolished because of high running costs and poor structural integrity before that. Still, with governments that can't even look to 5 years... Chris Woolf On 18/09/2022 10:05, John Ade via Tech1 wrote: > > > > > > Sent from my phone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 > Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022, 23:25 > To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... > Old to my chap seemed to be anything over 10 years. And this one is a > state of the art (at the time) Viessmann 200W. Microprocessor controlled > with onboard diagnostics. Which gave the fault as the fan. It is mounted > low down. I'd guessed on a fan (or controller) problem as the fan > normally runs at full speed when the boiler first starts up. I presume > to vent out the burner chamber? fully. And reverts to normal speed when > the? boiler fires. It was only running at normal speed when first > switched on, so something not right. > > The service manual (provided with the boiler) isn't that comprehensive. > Perhaps just to nudge an engineer already trained on the boiler in the > right direction. The software in particular being a nightmare (to set up > the weather compensation, etc) Later versions are Wi-Fi connected and do > this via a PC. > > Odd thing I discovered when installing it (and having a good look round) > is that all the high current outputs on the PCB are relay switched - and > with PCB fuses (though hole mounting) on those outputs. No mention of > those fuses at all in the manual. > > On 17/09/2022 19:22, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: > > Yes we too have an elderly boiler with a top mounted fan (Ideal > Classic.) Twenty plus years old, yet it feels only yesterday that it > was being installed. But we?re lucky as our local service engineer is > only a bit younger than we are and cut his teeth on such models so > he?s quite happy to go on servicing it. > > > > NB, the boiler?s been through 2 fans in its life so far. The design > is unfortunate as, being top mounted, the heat from below dries out > the bearings and the fans inevitably seize despite regular lubrication > . . . > > > > Hugh > > > >> On 17 Sep 2022, at 12:45, Dave Plowman via Tech1 > wrote: > >> > >> Boiler packed up. Only being used for hot water this time of year. > Last service chap I used not answering his mobile number. He was > Eastern European, so perhaps gone home. > >> > >> Went to the maker's site and chose a local firm from a list of > their approved repairers. Phoned them and made an appointment for last > Monday. > >> > >> Chap arrived, had a fiddle, and said it was too old to be worth > repairing. But said he would replace the fan - at my risk, so no > warranty - for ?1100. But said I'd be best to replace the boiler at > about ?4000. > >> > >> As it happens, I installed the boiler myself, so quite familiar > with it. The fan is pretty accessible, and held in by four Allen head > set screws. > >> > >> Retail price of the fan, from the boiler maker, ?212 delivered. So > about ?900 for an hour or so labour. > >> > >> Out of interest, the fan is made by Papst. Better know to us as > makers of tape machine capstan motors. > >> > >> -- > >> Tech1 mailing list > >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Dave P London > ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? SW > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.jasma at sky.com Sun Sep 18 05:58:31 2022 From: david.jasma at sky.com (Dave Buckley) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 11:58:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Boilers References: <9e3fdd34-fc85-a075-f80c-c8c355fe4ba7.ref@sky.com> Message-ID: <9e3fdd34-fc85-a075-f80c-c8c355fe4ba7@sky.com> Our first boiler was a Worcester, which we had installed when we bought the house in 2003. This boiler lasted us 15 years, but started to get noisy, our servicing company boss commenting that it was the fans bearing drying out, a problem that seems quite common reading the recent posts. We had the boiler replaced with another Worcester. What I found a bit annoying (for the installers) was that the pipework for the new unit didn't match the original and there had to be a few crossovers/re-routes. Also topping up the system is different to the old boiler, in having to take off the front cover and connect a feed pipe, whereas the old system had a tap at the side of the boiler. Another problem I found was that the date/time wasn't set at the end of the installation, a bit annoying but not crucial. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the software automatically takes into account the GMT/BST changes! Earlier this year we thought we had a gas leak and called in the gas supplier to check (it was a false alarm). While checking he had a look at the boiler and commented that Worcester was a very good make - praise indeed. Dave Buckley -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From mibridge at mac.com Sun Sep 18 07:25:41 2022 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 13:25:41 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <0f78bada-6e65-6e76-563d-25bb13f23174@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <0f78bada-6e65-6e76-563d-25bb13f23174@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <8DA1B796-2CB2-4FF1-A84C-E2E975A88A3C@mac.com> Not even five years, Chris, as politicians are thinking about making themselves popular well before the election. And the American four-year cycle is even worse, coupled with the fact that even the most brilliant president can?t have a third term. Mike G > On 18 Sep 2022, at 11:49, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > Sadly 10 years really is a typical design life, and trying to keep anything going longer than that becomes a problem. In fairness to manufacturers a great deal changes in that length of time - electronic components often go through a complete series change, control and instruction systems that make use of the web will be outdated, government and international rules on safety etc can completely change designs. > > I have a 17 year old Defender - exchanged from new for some work on the garage's computers for a nominal ?10k. I've just had it fitted with a galvanised chassis, and a few other bits replaced - well worth it because it has gone up in value by about 130% - but despite the demand for these iconic vehicles, and that production only stopped in 2016, it is almost impossible to get spare parts from Landrover. > > Fortunately the very high value of them means that after-market suppliers can provide most stuff and keep them running, but the short-termism of modern constructions is a big problem. > > Most crappy timber-framed houses that people are buying (and not distinguishing from more solid masonry built versions) only have a design life of 40 years, and may be demolished because of high running costs and poor structural integrity before that. > > Still, with governments that can't even look to 5 years... > > Chris Woolf > > On 18/09/2022 10:05, John Ade via Tech1 wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my phone >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 >> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022, 23:25 >> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... >> Old to my chap seemed to be anything over 10 years. And this one is a >> state of the art (at the time) Viessmann 200W. Microprocessor controlled >> with onboard diagnostics. Which gave the fault as the fan. It is mounted >> low down. I'd guessed on a fan (or controller) problem as the fan >> normally runs at full speed when the boiler first starts up. I presume >> to vent out the burner chamber fully. And reverts to normal speed when >> the boiler fires. It was only running at normal speed when first >> switched on, so something not right. >> >> The service manual (provided with the boiler) isn't that comprehensive. >> Perhaps just to nudge an engineer already trained on the boiler in the >> right direction. The software in particular being a nightmare (to set up >> the weather compensation, etc) Later versions are Wi-Fi connected and do >> this via a PC. >> >> Odd thing I discovered when installing it (and having a good look round) >> is that all the high current outputs on the PCB are relay switched - and >> with PCB fuses (though hole mounting) on those outputs. No mention of >> those fuses at all in the manual. >> >> On 17/09/2022 19:22, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: >> > Yes we too have an elderly boiler with a top mounted fan (Ideal Classic.) Twenty plus years old, yet it feels only yesterday that it was being installed. But we?re lucky as our local service engineer is only a bit younger than we are and cut his teeth on such models so he?s quite happy to go on servicing it. >> > >> > NB, the boiler?s been through 2 fans in its life so far. The design is unfortunate as, being top mounted, the heat from below dries out the bearings and the fans inevitably seize despite regular lubrication . . . >> > >> > Hugh >> > >> >> On 17 Sep 2022, at 12:45, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> >> >> Boiler packed up. Only being used for hot water this time of year. Last service chap I used not answering his mobile number. He was Eastern European, so perhaps gone home. >> >> >> >> Went to the maker's site and chose a local firm from a list of their approved repairers. Phoned them and made an appointment for last Monday. >> >> >> >> Chap arrived, had a fiddle, and said it was too old to be worth repairing. But said he would replace the fan - at my risk, so no warranty - for ?1100. But said I'd be best to replace the boiler at about ?4000. >> >> >> >> As it happens, I installed the boiler myself, so quite familiar with it. The fan is pretty accessible, and held in by four Allen head set screws. >> >> >> >> Retail price of the fan, from the boiler maker, ?212 delivered. So about ?900 for an hour or so labour. >> >> >> >> Out of interest, the fan is made by Papst. Better know to us as makers of tape machine capstan motors. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Tech1 mailing list >> >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > >> -- >> Dave P London >> SW >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Sun Sep 18 08:32:32 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:32:32 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <0f78bada-6e65-6e76-563d-25bb13f23174@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <71357cc2-a85e-3f7d-41c1-fbe61c0ab4e1@gmail.com> <9A83D1FB-F19F-4CB7-9AFC-80F13BE5A0CC@talktalk.net> <7p33wi-tvkm57-qh1jf3-h59mw3-w9lueo-zbkcqz-uwqhiz-tjq0fgug0kj3-20sh1iour51zhxvrqr-y26vze-qt3row-ueamx9-qhr3q1-rey5h2-2vuwxl-dkl35lr7pp67fuavhg4rr31boxyexi-hd2d3o.1663491920463@email.android.com> <0f78bada-6e65-6e76-563d-25bb13f23174@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <45a49b7f-dbbe-0e1a-423e-a5b107302559@davesound.co.uk> Odd, isn't it? No matter what make and price of boiler you buy, the trade all says a life of 10 years. Last one I had - an cast iron Potterton, a BE RS, did near 30 years. And only replaced to get the better efficiency of a condensing boiler, and when doing a major refurbishment of the room it is in. And the latest most efficient boiler ain't going to give me the same energy savings. But. I want to keep this one going as long as practical. Then decide whether a heat pump makes more sense. The only thing likely to kill it is a major PCB failure, as can't find anyone who repairs them. Sad LR are poor with spares - but doesn't surprise me. More interested in selling new vehicles. On 18/09/2022 11:48, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > Sadly 10 years really is a typical design life, and trying to keep > anything going longer than that becomes a problem. In fairness to > manufacturers a great deal changes in that length of time - electronic > components often go through a complete series change, control and > instruction systems that make use of the web will be outdated, > government and international rules on safety etc can completely change > designs. > > I have a 17 year old Defender - exchanged from new for some work on > the garage's computers for a nominal ?10k. I've just had it fitted > with a galvanised chassis, and a few other bits replaced - well worth > it because it has gone up in value by about 130% - but despite the > demand for these iconic vehicles, and that production only stopped in > 2016, it is almost impossible to get spare parts from Landrover. > > Fortunately the very high value of them means that after-market > suppliers can provide most stuff and keep them running, but the > short-termism of modern constructions is a big problem. > > Most crappy timber-framed houses that people are buying (and not > distinguishing from more solid masonry built versions) only have a > design life of 40 years, and may be demolished because of high running > costs and poor structural integrity before that. > > Still, with governments that can't even look to 5 years... > > Chris Woolf > > On 18/09/2022 10:05, John Ade via Tech1 wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my phone >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 >> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022, 23:25 >> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... >> Old to my chap seemed to be anything over 10 years. And this one is a >> state of the art (at the time) Viessmann 200W. Microprocessor controlled >> with onboard diagnostics. Which gave the fault as the fan. It is mounted >> low down. I'd guessed on a fan (or controller) problem as the fan >> normally runs at full speed when the boiler first starts up. I presume >> to vent out the burner chamber? fully. And reverts to normal speed when >> the? boiler fires. It was only running at normal speed when first >> switched on, so something not right. >> >> The service manual (provided with the boiler) isn't that comprehensive. >> Perhaps just to nudge an engineer already trained on the boiler in the >> right direction. The software in particular being a nightmare (to set up >> the weather compensation, etc) Later versions are Wi-Fi connected and do >> this via a PC. >> >> Odd thing I discovered when installing it (and having a good look round) >> is that all the high current outputs on the PCB are relay switched - and >> with PCB fuses (though hole mounting) on those outputs. No mention of >> those fuses at all in the manual. >> >> On 17/09/2022 19:22, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: >> > Yes we too have an elderly boiler with a top mounted fan (Ideal >> Classic.) Twenty plus years old, yet it feels only yesterday that it >> was being installed. But we?re lucky as our local service engineer is >> only a bit younger than we are and cut his teeth on such models so >> he?s quite happy to go on servicing it. >> > >> > NB, the boiler?s been through 2 fans in its life so far. The design >> is unfortunate as, being top mounted, the heat from below dries out >> the bearings and the fans inevitably seize despite regular >> lubrication . . . >> > >> > Hugh >> > >> >> On 17 Sep 2022, at 12:45, Dave Plowman via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Boiler packed up. Only being used for hot water this time of year. >> Last service chap I used not answering his mobile number. He was >> Eastern European, so perhaps gone home. >> >> >> >> Went to the maker's site and chose a local firm from a list of >> their approved repairers. Phoned them and made an appointment for >> last Monday. >> >> >> >> Chap arrived, had a fiddle, and said it was too old to be worth >> repairing. But said he would replace the fan - at my risk, so no >> warranty - for ?1100. But said I'd be best to replace the boiler at >> about ?4000. >> >> >> >> As it happens, I installed the boiler myself, so quite familiar >> with it. The fan is pretty accessible, and held in by four Allen head >> set screws. >> >> >> >> Retail price of the fan, from the boiler maker, ?212 delivered. So >> about ?900 for an hour or so labour. >> >> >> >> Out of interest, the fan is made by Papst. Better know to us as >> makers of tape machine capstan motors. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Tech1 mailing list >> >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > >> -- >> Dave P London >> ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? SW >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > -- Dave P London SW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Sun Sep 18 08:57:05 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 14:57:05 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <45a49b7f-dbbe-0e1a-423e-a5b107302559@davesound.co.uk> References: <71357cc2-a85e-3f7d-41c1-fbe61c0ab4e1@gmail.com> <9A83D1FB-F19F-4CB7-9AFC-80F13BE5A0CC@talktalk.net> <7p33wi-tvkm57-qh1jf3-h59mw3-w9lueo-zbkcqz-uwqhiz-tjq0fgug0kj3-20sh1iour51zhxvrqr-y26vze-qt3row-ueamx9-qhr3q1-rey5h2-2vuwxl-dkl35lr7pp67fuavhg4rr31boxyexi-hd2d3o.1663491920463@email.android.com> <0f78bada-6e65-6e76-563d-25bb13f23174@chriswoolf.co.uk> <45a49b7f-dbbe-0e1a-423e-a5b107302559@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: <7b4f9b13-99c3-615d-9101-ffcf77c26122@chriswoolf.co.uk> Well yes. But the technology of boilers has improved a lot in each 10 year cycle.... so maybe they are right to design something with that life? So hard to argue. And in 10 years time you won't be buying a gas boiler. The heat pump already makes good sense, with the only two caveats being - have you got somewhere to put it? And is your house anything like well enough insulated to make it plausible? I have a friend in a very old (listed) set of alms houses. The property has a big garden behind, so the plan is to use the new Kensa system that puts boreholes down in the garden and then sends a sort of "heat main" round. Each alms house in the block taps in to this, with a shoe-box heat pump in each property running their hot water and heating in place of the old gas boilers. Shared price of the "main" vastly improves the economics. My ground source pump has been running since 2014 without any maintenance, and with the unit price of electricity not going up in the same way that gas is, this winter isn't looking too scary. Landrover just lost the plot. What they sold in volume was true utility vehicles that were really tough, and had almost no competition. The new Defender is just staggeringly expensive Chelsea tractor stuff, same as everyone else. Chris W On 18/09/2022 14:32, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > Odd, isn't it? No matter what make and price of boiler you buy, the > trade all says a life of 10 years. Last one I had - an cast iron > Potterton, a BE RS, did near 30 years. And only replaced to get the > better efficiency of a condensing boiler, and when doing a major > refurbishment of the room it is in. And the latest most efficient > boiler ain't going to give me the same energy savings. But. I want to > keep this one going as long as practical. Then decide whether a heat > pump makes more sense. The only thing likely to kill it is a major PCB > failure, as can't find anyone who repairs them. > > Sad LR are poor with spares - but doesn't surprise me. More interested > in selling new vehicles. > > From dave at davesound.co.uk Sun Sep 18 09:10:49 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 15:10:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <7b4f9b13-99c3-615d-9101-ffcf77c26122@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <71357cc2-a85e-3f7d-41c1-fbe61c0ab4e1@gmail.com> <9A83D1FB-F19F-4CB7-9AFC-80F13BE5A0CC@talktalk.net> <7p33wi-tvkm57-qh1jf3-h59mw3-w9lueo-zbkcqz-uwqhiz-tjq0fgug0kj3-20sh1iour51zhxvrqr-y26vze-qt3row-ueamx9-qhr3q1-rey5h2-2vuwxl-dkl35lr7pp67fuavhg4rr31boxyexi-hd2d3o.1663491920463@email.android.com> <0f78bada-6e65-6e76-563d-25bb13f23174@chriswoolf.co.uk> <45a49b7f-dbbe-0e1a-423e-a5b107302559@davesound.co.uk> <7b4f9b13-99c3-615d-9101-ffcf77c26122@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <30a4c926-2dbc-3514-5bed-378168069055@davesound.co.uk> Decent insulation is really the best answer regardless of the fuel used to heat. My house is a Victorian semi. Roof pretty well insulated, and double glazed. But walls solid 9" brick. I simply couldn't tolerate the work/mess needed to insulate the insides. I am looking at insulating the outside of the flank wall. However, there is only a 700mm passageway between the houses. > Well yes. But the technology of boilers has improved a lot in each 10 > year cycle.... so maybe they are right to design something with that > life? So hard to argue. And in 10 years time you won't be buying a gas > boiler. > > The heat pump already makes good sense, with the only two caveats > being - have you got somewhere to put it? And is your house anything > like well enough insulated to make it plausible? > > I have a friend in a very old (listed) set of alms houses. The > property has a big garden behind, so the plan is to use the new Kensa > system that puts boreholes down in the garden and then sends a sort of > "heat main" round. Each alms house in the block taps in to this, with > a shoe-box heat pump in each property running their hot water and > heating in place of the old gas boilers. Shared price of the "main" > vastly improves the economics. > > My ground source pump has been running since 2014 without any > maintenance, and with the unit price of electricity not going up in > the same way that gas is, this winter isn't looking too scary. > > Landrover just lost the plot. What they sold in volume was true > utility vehicles that were really tough, and had almost no > competition. The new Defender is just staggeringly expensive Chelsea > tractor stuff, same as everyone else. > > Chris W > > > On 18/09/2022 14:32, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Odd, isn't it? No matter what make and price of boiler you buy, the >> trade all says a life of 10 years. Last one I had - an cast iron >> Potterton, a BE RS, did near 30 years. And only replaced to get the >> better efficiency of a condensing boiler, and when doing a major >> refurbishment of the room it is in. And the latest most efficient >> boiler ain't going to give me the same energy savings. But. I want to >> keep this one going as long as practical. Then decide whether a heat >> pump makes more sense. The only thing likely to kill it is a major >> PCB failure, as can't find anyone who repairs them. >> >> Sad LR are poor with spares - but doesn't surprise me. More >> interested in selling new vehicles. >> >> > -- Dave P London SW From alawrance1 at me.com Sun Sep 18 10:40:49 2022 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 16:40:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <30a4c926-2dbc-3514-5bed-378168069055@davesound.co.uk> References: <30a4c926-2dbc-3514-5bed-378168069055@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: <39112723-D760-43BA-93D4-B475245A3F19@me.com> We're out in the sticks and fairly well insulated, but a good 1/3rd of the house, a converted canal warehouse is 9" brick, the rest ordinary cavity, and the floor is mostly earth with a concrete skim, so I'm not considering any further insulation. I understand, correct me if I'm wrong, that simply adding a heat pump instead of boiler is no use without looking at the radiators as well, as a pump runs much, much cooler - maybe 40 - 50 degree instead of 70-80 or more. So it takes a lot longer to get up to temperature, and unless your insulation is top notch it's all a waste of time. The full page colour adverts from Eon seem to me to be misleading at best. Alasdair Lawrance Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > On 18 Sep 2022, at 15:11, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Decent insulation is really the best answer regardless of the fuel used to heat. My house is a Victorian semi. Roof pretty well insulated, and double glazed. But walls solid 9" brick. I simply couldn't tolerate the work/mess needed to insulate the insides. I am looking at insulating the outside of the flank wall. However, there is only a 700mm passageway between the houses. > >> Well yes. But the technology of boilers has improved a lot in each 10 year cycle.... so maybe they are right to design something with that life? So hard to argue. And in 10 years time you won't be buying a gas boiler. >> >> The heat pump already makes good sense, with the only two caveats being - have you got somewhere to put it? And is your house anything like well enough insulated to make it plausible? >> >> I have a friend in a very old (listed) set of alms houses. The property has a big garden behind, so the plan is to use the new Kensa system that puts boreholes down in the garden and then sends a sort of "heat main" round. Each alms house in the block taps in to this, with a shoe-box heat pump in each property running their hot water and heating in place of the old gas boilers. Shared price of the "main" vastly improves the economics. >> >> My ground source pump has been running since 2014 without any maintenance, and with the unit price of electricity not going up in the same way that gas is, this winter isn't looking too scary. >> >> Landrover just lost the plot. What they sold in volume was true utility vehicles that were really tough, and had almost no competition. The new Defender is just staggeringly expensive Chelsea tractor stuff, same as everyone else. >> >> Chris W >> >> >>> On 18/09/2022 14:32, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> Odd, isn't it? No matter what make and price of boiler you buy, the trade all says a life of 10 years. Last one I had - an cast iron Potterton, a BE RS, did near 30 years. And only replaced to get the better efficiency of a condensing boiler, and when doing a major refurbishment of the room it is in. And the latest most efficient boiler ain't going to give me the same energy savings. But. I want to keep this one going as long as practical. Then decide whether a heat pump makes more sense. The only thing likely to kill it is a major PCB failure, as can't find anyone who repairs them. >>> >>> Sad LR are poor with spares - but doesn't surprise me. More interested in selling new vehicles. >>> >>> >> > -- > Dave P London > SW > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From pat.heigham at amps.net Sun Sep 18 10:57:37 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 16:57:37 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <45a49b7f-dbbe-0e1a-423e-a5b107302559@davesound.co.uk> References: <71357cc2-a85e-3f7d-41c1-fbe61c0ab4e1@gmail.com> <9A83D1FB-F19F-4CB7-9AFC-80F13BE5A0CC@talktalk.net> <7p33wi-tvkm57-qh1jf3-h59mw3-w9lueo-zbkcqz-uwqhiz-tjq0fgug0kj3-20sh1iour51zhxvrqr-y26vze-qt3row-ueamx9-qhr3q1-rey5h2-2vuwxl-dkl35lr7pp67fuavhg4rr31boxyexi-hd2d3o.1663491920463@email.android.com> <0f78bada-6e65-6e76-563d-25bb13f23174@chriswoolf.co.uk> <45a49b7f-dbbe-0e1a-423e-a5b107302559@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: <4f20dec4-f752-8887-1f32-3a52eafcb5f5@amps.net> My old Potterton had to be replaced after 30 years - only because spares were becoming few and far between. The gas fired Worcester/Bosch was installed by British Gas Services, cost ?3690, is now 15 years old and this year needed a couple of call-outs for a failed PCB and gas valve.? I have a breakdown contract with BG - covers other things besides the boiler service every year, but over 15 years that has cost ?4195 - enough for a new boiler! With the new Worcester/Bosch, included was a new hot storage tank with moulded insulation jacket, immersion? heater, pump and filter and new timer & room thermostat control. They were also able to set the hot tank further back into the airing cupboard and bring various stopcocks and motorised vlaves around to the front (the builders had mounted them behind the tank!). All serves a small flat in a purpose built block. Incidentally, our managing agent advised against injected foam cavity wall insulation, as if needed to remove same, is impossible. Cheers Pat On 18/09/2022 14:32, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > Odd, isn't it? No matter what make and price of boiler you buy, the > trade all says a life of 10 years. Last one I had - an cast iron > Potterton, a BE RS, did near 30 years. And only replaced to get the > better efficiency of a condensing boiler, and when doing a major > refurbishment of the room it is in. And the latest most efficient > boiler ain't going to give me the same energy savings. But. I want to > keep this one going as long as practical. Then decide whether a heat > pump makes more sense. The only thing likely to kill it is a major PCB > failure, as can't find anyone who repairs them. > From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Sun Sep 18 11:15:43 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 17:15:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <39112723-D760-43BA-93D4-B475245A3F19@me.com> References: <30a4c926-2dbc-3514-5bed-378168069055@davesound.co.uk> <39112723-D760-43BA-93D4-B475245A3F19@me.com> Message-ID: <71a224ca-00d4-02fa-41e1-9dc9b7edd5fa@chriswoolf.co.uk> The greatest waste is undoubtedly dumping several thousand kilowatts into the atmosphere every year. There are a load of ways of adding insulation that maybe need a slightly more inventive take. Almost nobody's roof is well enough insulated in this country. About 300mm of fibre, perhaps together with some multilayer reflective material is where it needs to /star//t/. Mind you, some modern new-builds have such thin ceiling timbers that you actually can't put that up because of weight constraints. Even just a 25mm insulation bat with a slate hanging on a weather wall has been enough here to change heat loss by a stunning amount. And shutters - internal or external - come out as well as double-glazing for heat loss. Floors are trickier, unless you can lose 50-60mm of room height. Older heat pumps used a fairly low flow temperature to gain maximum efficiency but the newest ones have improved on that. I'm amused by the suggestion that people turn their boiler flow temperature down to save energy at the moment - that's exactly the same thing. The "takes a lot longer" presumes that you are someone who turns the heating on at full power to blast the place with heat when you come in. That heats a room quickly but also creates the greatest heat differential to outside, and maximises your losses. Heat a house to a lower temperature for longer (using a cheaper energy source) and your losses are lower, for the same comfort. With passable insulation, and (ideally) good thermal mass, you don't get anything like the temperature variation, which is much more comfortable. You also drop down the power source for draughts. Give it 15 years and a gas or oil boiler will look as sad as a 1990's fax machine. As always this country invents good reasons to ignore the experience of many millions of people, in somewhat colder climates, who have been running heat pump systems for decades;} Chris W On 18/09/2022 16:40, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: > We're out in the sticks and fairly well insulated, but a good 1/3rd of the house, a converted canal warehouse is 9" brick, the rest ordinary cavity, and the floor is mostly earth with a concrete skim, so I'm not considering any further insulation. > > I understand, correct me if I'm wrong, that simply adding a heat pump instead of boiler is no use without looking at the radiators as well, as a pump runs much, much cooler - maybe 40 - 50 degree instead of 70-80 or more. > > So it takes a lot longer to get up to temperature, and unless your insulation is top notch it's all a waste of time. The full page colour adverts from Eon seem to me to be misleading at best. > > Alasdair Lawrance > > Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > > > >> On 18 Sep 2022, at 15:11, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?Decent insulation is really the best answer regardless of the fuel used to heat. My house is a Victorian semi. Roof pretty well insulated, and double glazed. But walls solid 9" brick. I simply couldn't tolerate the work/mess needed to insulate the insides. I am looking at insulating the outside of the flank wall. However, there is only a 700mm passageway between the houses. >> >>> Well yes. But the technology of boilers has improved a lot in each 10 year cycle.... so maybe they are right to design something with that life? So hard to argue. And in 10 years time you won't be buying a gas boiler. >>> >>> The heat pump already makes good sense, with the only two caveats being - have you got somewhere to put it? And is your house anything like well enough insulated to make it plausible? >>> >>> I have a friend in a very old (listed) set of alms houses. The property has a big garden behind, so the plan is to use the new Kensa system that puts boreholes down in the garden and then sends a sort of "heat main" round. Each alms house in the block taps in to this, with a shoe-box heat pump in each property running their hot water and heating in place of the old gas boilers. Shared price of the "main" vastly improves the economics. >>> >>> My ground source pump has been running since 2014 without any maintenance, and with the unit price of electricity not going up in the same way that gas is, this winter isn't looking too scary. >>> >>> Landrover just lost the plot. What they sold in volume was true utility vehicles that were really tough, and had almost no competition. The new Defender is just staggeringly expensive Chelsea tractor stuff, same as everyone else. >>> >>> Chris W >>> >>> >>>> On 18/09/2022 14:32, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> Odd, isn't it? No matter what make and price of boiler you buy, the trade all says a life of 10 years. Last one I had - an cast iron Potterton, a BE RS, did near 30 years. And only replaced to get the better efficiency of a condensing boiler, and when doing a major refurbishment of the room it is in. And the latest most efficient boiler ain't going to give me the same energy savings. But. I want to keep this one going as long as practical. Then decide whether a heat pump makes more sense. The only thing likely to kill it is a major PCB failure, as can't find anyone who repairs them. >>>> >>>> Sad LR are poor with spares - but doesn't surprise me. More interested in selling new vehicles. >>>> >>>> >> -- >> Dave P London >> SW >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Sun Sep 18 11:24:50 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 17:24:50 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <39112723-D760-43BA-93D4-B475245A3F19@me.com> References: <39112723-D760-43BA-93D4-B475245A3F19@me.com> Message-ID: The general consensus seems to be that heat pumps are best deployed on new builds, or during major renovations, because the insulation needs to be much more effective than normal and the radiators ( or under floor heating ) need to be suitable for lower water temperatures being circulated through them. A typical British house is unlikely to be well suited for heat pumps without substantial modifications. Heat pumps do a great job of keeping the background heat at a comfortable level. Many users would also need an additional heat source in a living room. In our village, we?re starting to get more power cuts than usual and heat pumps might make things worse. Western power are suggesting that part of the problem is caused by people recharging electric cars, which overload the overhead wires and distribution transformers, but recharging mostly happens at night. The cuts mostly happen during the day. I don?t know the answer to how we should best heat our houses in the future, but it does seem obvious that having better insulated houses would be a sensible step in the right direction and would be beneficial whatever fuel is used in the future. Incidentally, fusion power has often been said to be thirty years away for the last fifty years, but a lot of progress is being made at the moment. Chinese scientists are predicting fusion power might happen in six years and there are incremental advancements being made all around the globe. Green hydrogen is now being made in a lot of places and at scale too. We may be looking at completely different technologies when our new boilers are ten years old. Alan > On 18 Sep 2022, at 16:41, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: > > ?We're out in the sticks and fairly well insulated, but a good 1/3rd of the house, a converted canal warehouse is 9" brick, the rest ordinary cavity, and the floor is mostly earth with a concrete skim, so I'm not considering any further insulation. > > I understand, correct me if I'm wrong, that simply adding a heat pump instead of boiler is no use without looking at the radiators as well, as a pump runs much, much cooler - maybe 40 - 50 degree instead of 70-80 or more. > > So it takes a lot longer to get up to temperature, and unless your insulation is top notch it's all a waste of time. The full page colour adverts from Eon seem to me to be misleading at best. > > Alasdair Lawrance > > Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > > > >> On 18 Sep 2022, at 15:11, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?Decent insulation is really the best answer regardless of the fuel used to heat. My house is a Victorian semi. Roof pretty well insulated, and double glazed. But walls solid 9" brick. I simply couldn't tolerate the work/mess needed to insulate the insides. I am looking at insulating the outside of the flank wall. However, there is only a 700mm passageway between the houses. >> >>> Well yes. But the technology of boilers has improved a lot in each 10 year cycle.... so maybe they are right to design something with that life? So hard to argue. And in 10 years time you won't be buying a gas boiler. >>> >>> The heat pump already makes good sense, with the only two caveats being - have you got somewhere to put it? And is your house anything like well enough insulated to make it plausible? >>> >>> I have a friend in a very old (listed) set of alms houses. The property has a big garden behind, so the plan is to use the new Kensa system that puts boreholes down in the garden and then sends a sort of "heat main" round. Each alms house in the block taps in to this, with a shoe-box heat pump in each property running their hot water and heating in place of the old gas boilers. Shared price of the "main" vastly improves the economics. >>> >>> My ground source pump has been running since 2014 without any maintenance, and with the unit price of electricity not going up in the same way that gas is, this winter isn't looking too scary. >>> >>> Landrover just lost the plot. What they sold in volume was true utility vehicles that were really tough, and had almost no competition. The new Defender is just staggeringly expensive Chelsea tractor stuff, same as everyone else. >>> >>> Chris W >>> >>> >>>>> On 18/09/2022 14:32, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Odd, isn't it? No matter what make and price of boiler you buy, the trade all says a life of 10 years. Last one I had - an cast iron Potterton, a BE RS, did near 30 years. And only replaced to get the better efficiency of a condensing boiler, and when doing a major refurbishment of the room it is in. And the latest most efficient boiler ain't going to give me the same energy savings. But. I want to keep this one going as long as practical. Then decide whether a heat pump makes more sense. The only thing likely to kill it is a major PCB failure, as can't find anyone who repairs them. >>>>> >>>>> Sad LR are poor with spares - but doesn't surprise me. More interested in selling new vehicles. >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> -- >> Dave P London >> SW >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Sun Sep 18 11:26:13 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 17:26:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <39112723-D760-43BA-93D4-B475245A3F19@me.com> References: <30a4c926-2dbc-3514-5bed-378168069055@davesound.co.uk> <39112723-D760-43BA-93D4-B475245A3F19@me.com> Message-ID: <60b7d135-0672-8b60-31fe-c20802bd2a8b@chriswoolf.co.uk> As a quick fact-check, a Kensa Shoebox pump can give you a flow temperature of 60?C with a CoP? of >3 for a ground inlet temp of 10?C. My borehole temperature water is usually around 12?C all the year round. That's fairly typical of the more modern systems. Chris W From saranewman at hotmail.com Sun Sep 18 11:45:12 2022 From: saranewman at hotmail.com (Sara Newman) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 16:45:12 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: <45a49b7f-dbbe-0e1a-423e-a5b107302559@davesound.co.uk> References: <71357cc2-a85e-3f7d-41c1-fbe61c0ab4e1@gmail.com> <9A83D1FB-F19F-4CB7-9AFC-80F13BE5A0CC@talktalk.net> <7p33wi-tvkm57-qh1jf3-h59mw3-w9lueo-zbkcqz-uwqhiz-tjq0fgug0kj3-20sh1iour51zhxvrqr-y26vze-qt3row-ueamx9-qhr3q1-rey5h2-2vuwxl-dkl35lr7pp67fuavhg4rr31boxyexi-hd2d3o.1663491920463@email.android.com> <0f78bada-6e65-6e76-563d-25bb13f23174@chriswoolf.co.uk> <45a49b7f-dbbe-0e1a-423e-a5b107302559@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi I had a new Miele washing machine last Xmas It went bang on the 22nd but due to a mix up we did not get the replacement until the 5th January! It was 15 years old and I had kept the insurance going - it had 10 years free when I bought it So it was an inexpensive replacement The female engineer who fitted it said what was the use of WiFi when what you needed was someone to actually fill it and pop it in the tumble dryer when it was finished ! So we decided WiFi was a waste of time !!! Until the house robot comes on stream! Sara Sent from my iPhone On 18 Sep 2022, at 14:33, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: ? Odd, isn't it? No matter what make and price of boiler you buy, the trade all says a life of 10 years. Last one I had - an cast iron Potterton, a BE RS, did near 30 years. And only replaced to get the better efficiency of a condensing boiler, and when doing a major refurbishment of the room it is in. And the latest most efficient boiler ain't going to give me the same energy savings. But. I want to keep this one going as long as practical. Then decide whether a heat pump makes more sense. The only thing likely to kill it is a major PCB failure, as can't find anyone who repairs them. Sad LR are poor with spares - but doesn't surprise me. More interested in selling new vehicles. On 18/09/2022 11:48, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: Sadly 10 years really is a typical design life, and trying to keep anything going longer than that becomes a problem. In fairness to manufacturers a great deal changes in that length of time - electronic components often go through a complete series change, control and instruction systems that make use of the web will be outdated, government and international rules on safety etc can completely change designs. I have a 17 year old Defender - exchanged from new for some work on the garage's computers for a nominal ?10k. I've just had it fitted with a galvanised chassis, and a few other bits replaced - well worth it because it has gone up in value by about 130% - but despite the demand for these iconic vehicles, and that production only stopped in 2016, it is almost impossible to get spare parts from Landrover. Fortunately the very high value of them means that after-market suppliers can provide most stuff and keep them running, but the short-termism of modern constructions is a big problem. Most crappy timber-framed houses that people are buying (and not distinguishing from more solid masonry built versions) only have a design life of 40 years, and may be demolished because of high running costs and poor structural integrity before that. Still, with governments that can't even look to 5 years... Chris Woolf On 18/09/2022 10:05, John Ade via Tech1 wrote: Sent from my phone -------- Original message -------- From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022, 23:25 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... Old to my chap seemed to be anything over 10 years. And this one is a state of the art (at the time) Viessmann 200W. Microprocessor controlled with onboard diagnostics. Which gave the fault as the fan. It is mounted low down. I'd guessed on a fan (or controller) problem as the fan normally runs at full speed when the boiler first starts up. I presume to vent out the burner chamber fully. And reverts to normal speed when the boiler fires. It was only running at normal speed when first switched on, so something not right. The service manual (provided with the boiler) isn't that comprehensive. Perhaps just to nudge an engineer already trained on the boiler in the right direction. The software in particular being a nightmare (to set up the weather compensation, etc) Later versions are Wi-Fi connected and do this via a PC. Odd thing I discovered when installing it (and having a good look round) is that all the high current outputs on the PCB are relay switched - and with PCB fuses (though hole mounting) on those outputs. No mention of those fuses at all in the manual. On 17/09/2022 19:22, Hugh Snape via Tech1 wrote: > Yes we too have an elderly boiler with a top mounted fan (Ideal Classic.) Twenty plus years old, yet it feels only yesterday that it was being installed. But we?re lucky as our local service engineer is only a bit younger than we are and cut his teeth on such models so he?s quite happy to go on servicing it. > > NB, the boiler?s been through 2 fans in its life so far. The design is unfortunate as, being top mounted, the heat from below dries out the bearings and the fans inevitably seize despite regular lubrication . . . > > Hugh > >> On 17 Sep 2022, at 12:45, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Boiler packed up. Only being used for hot water this time of year. Last service chap I used not answering his mobile number. He was Eastern European, so perhaps gone home. >> >> Went to the maker's site and chose a local firm from a list of their approved repairers. Phoned them and made an appointment for last Monday. >> >> Chap arrived, had a fiddle, and said it was too old to be worth repairing. But said he would replace the fan - at my risk, so no warranty - for ?1100. But said I'd be best to replace the boiler at about ?4000. >> >> As it happens, I installed the boiler myself, so quite familiar with it. The fan is pretty accessible, and held in by four Allen head set screws. >> >> Retail price of the fan, from the boiler maker, ?212 delivered. So about ?900 for an hour or so labour. >> >> Out of interest, the fan is made by Papst. Better know to us as makers of tape machine capstan motors. >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- Dave P London SW -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Dave P London SW -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Sun Sep 18 12:02:21 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 18:02:21 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: References: <39112723-D760-43BA-93D4-B475245A3F19@me.com> Message-ID: <1fc93bdf-aebc-a733-e3a1-1704726e7e7a@amps.net> I expect I've got things wrong, but my belief as to storage heaters is that a concrete bock is heated up then it releases the stored heat. If one requires a _quick_ change to a lower room temperature, this isn't possible as it would be with gas fired water circulated system. And they occupy a lot of space. Is it that heat pumps extract heat from the gound? Wouldn't do for a friend with whom I stayed just North of Toronto in Canada - he mentioned a depth of permafrost which made it difficult to sink a concrete mount for his tracking satellite dish! I was fascinated with the latter, as one could watch a film on TV, via an Eastern sat, then swing over to a mid west one 2 hrs later, if you missed part of it, then even to the west, 2 hrs after that. TV broadcasters also bounced unedited material from coast to coast for later use, which was interceptable - probably a bit more secure now, though. Best Pat On 18/09/2022 17:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > The general consensus seems to be that heat pumps are best deployed on new builds, or during major renovations, because the insulation needs to be much more effective than normal and the radiators ( or under floor heating ) need to be suitable for lower water temperatures being circulated through them. A typical British house is unlikely to be well suited for heat pumps without substantial modifications. > > Heat pumps do a great job of keeping the background heat at a comfortable level. Many users would also need an additional heat source in a living room. > > In our village, we?re starting to get more power cuts than usual and heat pumps might make things worse. Western power are suggesting that part of the problem is caused by people recharging electric cars, which overload the overhead wires and distribution transformers, but recharging mostly happens at night. The cuts mostly happen during the day. > > I don?t know the answer to how we should best heat our houses in the future, but it does seem obvious that having better insulated houses would be a sensible step in the right direction and would be beneficial whatever fuel is used in the future. > > Incidentally, fusion power has often been said to be thirty years away for the last fifty years, but a lot of progress is being made at the moment. Chinese scientists are predicting fusion power might happen in six years and there are incremental advancements being made all around the globe. Green hydrogen is now being made in a lot of places and at scale too. We may be looking at completely different technologies when our new boilers are ten years old. > > Alan > > > >> On 18 Sep 2022, at 16:41, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?We're out in the sticks and fairly well insulated, but a good 1/3rd of the house, a converted canal warehouse is 9" brick, the rest ordinary cavity, and the floor is mostly earth with a concrete skim, so I'm not considering any further insulation. >> >> I understand, correct me if I'm wrong, that simply adding a heat pump instead of boiler is no use without looking at the radiators as well, as a pump runs much, much cooler - maybe 40 - 50 degree instead of 70-80 or more. >> >> So it takes a lot longer to get up to temperature, and unless your insulation is top notch it's all a waste of time. The full page colour adverts from Eon seem to me to be misleading at best. >> >> Alasdair Lawrance >> >> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. >> >> >> >>> On 18 Sep 2022, at 15:11, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?Decent insulation is really the best answer regardless of the fuel used to heat. My house is a Victorian semi. Roof pretty well insulated, and double glazed. But walls solid 9" brick. I simply couldn't tolerate the work/mess needed to insulate the insides. I am looking at insulating the outside of the flank wall. However, there is only a 700mm passageway between the houses. >>> >>>> Well yes. But the technology of boilers has improved a lot in each 10 year cycle.... so maybe they are right to design something with that life? So hard to argue. And in 10 years time you won't be buying a gas boiler. >>>> >>>> The heat pump already makes good sense, with the only two caveats being - have you got somewhere to put it? And is your house anything like well enough insulated to make it plausible? >>>> >>>> I have a friend in a very old (listed) set of alms houses. The property has a big garden behind, so the plan is to use the new Kensa system that puts boreholes down in the garden and then sends a sort of "heat main" round. Each alms house in the block taps in to this, with a shoe-box heat pump in each property running their hot water and heating in place of the old gas boilers. Shared price of the "main" vastly improves the economics. >>>> >>>> My ground source pump has been running since 2014 without any maintenance, and with the unit price of electricity not going up in the same way that gas is, this winter isn't looking too scary. >>>> >>>> Landrover just lost the plot. What they sold in volume was true utility vehicles that were really tough, and had almost no competition. The new Defender is just staggeringly expensive Chelsea tractor stuff, same as everyone else. >>>> >>>> Chris W >>>> >>>> >>>>>> On 18/09/2022 14:32, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Odd, isn't it? No matter what make and price of boiler you buy, the trade all says a life of 10 years. Last one I had - an cast iron Potterton, a BE RS, did near 30 years. And only replaced to get the better efficiency of a condensing boiler, and when doing a major refurbishment of the room it is in. And the latest most efficient boiler ain't going to give me the same energy savings. But. I want to keep this one going as long as practical. Then decide whether a heat pump makes more sense. The only thing likely to kill it is a major PCB failure, as can't find anyone who repairs them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sad LR are poor with spares - but doesn't surprise me. More interested in selling new vehicles. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> -- >>> Dave P London >>> SW >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philiptyler at me.com Sun Sep 18 12:07:40 2022 From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 18:07:40 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <902C8B3F-2D27-4B34-AAFC-FCD627C4C66E@me.com> Electric car charging is controlled by the National Grid. The EV chargers need to connect to the net, either by mobile data or wirelessly to your home broadband. This is to stop the grid getting overloaded when everyone comes home from work, plugs the car in and then go inside putting the kettle, oven, microwave and the like on. There is a thought that all the electric cars plugged in could act as a source for the grid at times of high demand, drawing power from the vehicles battery. Not sure if that is in operation yet. I have a 7kw EV charger fitted, just waiting for the car to plug it into! The world wide semiconductor shortage is apparently the reason for the wait. Hopefully end of October it should arrive. Hopefully they mean this year? Philip and Bee https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/ > On 18 Sep 2022, at 17:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > > ?The general consensus seems to be that heat pumps are best deployed on new builds, or during major renovations, because the insulation needs to be much more effective than normal and the radiators ( or under floor heating ) need to be suitable for lower water temperatures being circulated through them. A typical British house is unlikely to be well suited for heat pumps without substantial modifications. > > Heat pumps do a great job of keeping the background heat at a comfortable level. Many users would also need an additional heat source in a living room. > > In our village, we?re starting to get more power cuts than usual and heat pumps might make things worse. Western power are suggesting that part of the problem is caused by people recharging electric cars, which overload the overhead wires and distribution transformers, but recharging mostly happens at night. The cuts mostly happen during the day. > > I don?t know the answer to how we should best heat our houses in the future, but it does seem obvious that having better insulated houses would be a sensible step in the right direction and would be beneficial whatever fuel is used in the future. > > Incidentally, fusion power has often been said to be thirty years away for the last fifty years, but a lot of progress is being made at the moment. Chinese scientists are predicting fusion power might happen in six years and there are incremental advancements being made all around the globe. Green hydrogen is now being made in a lot of places and at scale too. We may be looking at completely different technologies when our new boilers are ten years old. > > Alan > > > >> On 18 Sep 2022, at 16:41, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?We're out in the sticks and fairly well insulated, but a good 1/3rd of the house, a converted canal warehouse is 9" brick, the rest ordinary cavity, and the floor is mostly earth with a concrete skim, so I'm not considering any further insulation. >> >> I understand, correct me if I'm wrong, that simply adding a heat pump instead of boiler is no use without looking at the radiators as well, as a pump runs much, much cooler - maybe 40 - 50 degree instead of 70-80 or more. >> >> So it takes a lot longer to get up to temperature, and unless your insulation is top notch it's all a waste of time. The full page colour adverts from Eon seem to me to be misleading at best. >> >> Alasdair Lawrance >> >> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. >> >> >> >>>> On 18 Sep 2022, at 15:11, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?Decent insulation is really the best answer regardless of the fuel used to heat. My house is a Victorian semi. Roof pretty well insulated, and double glazed. But walls solid 9" brick. I simply couldn't tolerate the work/mess needed to insulate the insides. I am looking at insulating the outside of the flank wall. However, there is only a 700mm passageway between the houses. >>> >>>> Well yes. But the technology of boilers has improved a lot in each 10 year cycle.... so maybe they are right to design something with that life? So hard to argue. And in 10 years time you won't be buying a gas boiler. >>>> >>>> The heat pump already makes good sense, with the only two caveats being - have you got somewhere to put it? And is your house anything like well enough insulated to make it plausible? >>>> >>>> I have a friend in a very old (listed) set of alms houses. The property has a big garden behind, so the plan is to use the new Kensa system that puts boreholes down in the garden and then sends a sort of "heat main" round. Each alms house in the block taps in to this, with a shoe-box heat pump in each property running their hot water and heating in place of the old gas boilers. Shared price of the "main" vastly improves the economics. >>>> >>>> My ground source pump has been running since 2014 without any maintenance, and with the unit price of electricity not going up in the same way that gas is, this winter isn't looking too scary. >>>> >>>> Landrover just lost the plot. What they sold in volume was true utility vehicles that were really tough, and had almost no competition. The new Defender is just staggeringly expensive Chelsea tractor stuff, same as everyone else. >>>> >>>> Chris W >>>> >>>> >>>>>> On 18/09/2022 14:32, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Odd, isn't it? No matter what make and price of boiler you buy, the trade all says a life of 10 years. Last one I had - an cast iron Potterton, a BE RS, did near 30 years. And only replaced to get the better efficiency of a condensing boiler, and when doing a major refurbishment of the room it is in. And the latest most efficient boiler ain't going to give me the same energy savings. But. I want to keep this one going as long as practical. Then decide whether a heat pump makes more sense. The only thing likely to kill it is a major PCB failure, as can't find anyone who repairs them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sad LR are poor with spares - but doesn't surprise me. More interested in selling new vehicles. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Dave P London >>> SW >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Sun Sep 18 17:46:10 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2022 23:46:10 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: References: <39112723-D760-43BA-93D4-B475245A3F19@me.com> Message-ID: A large enough heat pump system can heat to the same degree as a boiler. But with the lower temperature water, needs larger rads. Or, indeed underfloor, where this is possible. I was idly musing if a hybrid system might make sense - to avoid have to replace all pipework and rads. A small gas boiler to top up heat from a heat pump? Must admit to wondering about the hot water. Stored water is recommended to be at about 60C to be sterile? On 18/09/2022 17:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > The general consensus seems to be that heat pumps are best deployed on new builds, or during major renovations, because the insulation needs to be much more effective than normal and the radiators ( or under floor heating ) need to be suitable for lower water temperatures being circulated through them. A typical British house is unlikely to be well suited for heat pumps without substantial modifications. > > Heat pumps do a great job of keeping the background heat at a comfortable level. Many users would also need an additional heat source in a living room. > > In our village, we?re starting to get more power cuts than usual and heat pumps might make things worse. Western power are suggesting that part of the problem is caused by people recharging electric cars, which overload the overhead wires and distribution transformers, but recharging mostly happens at night. The cuts mostly happen during the day. > > I don?t know the answer to how we should best heat our houses in the future, but it does seem obvious that having better insulated houses would be a sensible step in the right direction and would be beneficial whatever fuel is used in the future. > > Incidentally, fusion power has often been said to be thirty years away for the last fifty years, but a lot of progress is being made at the moment. Chinese scientists are predicting fusion power might happen in six years and there are incremental advancements being made all around the globe. Green hydrogen is now being made in a lot of places and at scale too. We may be looking at completely different technologies when our new boilers are ten years old. > > Alan > > > >> On 18 Sep 2022, at 16:41, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?We're out in the sticks and fairly well insulated, but a good 1/3rd of the house, a converted canal warehouse is 9" brick, the rest ordinary cavity, and the floor is mostly earth with a concrete skim, so I'm not considering any further insulation. >> >> I understand, correct me if I'm wrong, that simply adding a heat pump instead of boiler is no use without looking at the radiators as well, as a pump runs much, much cooler - maybe 40 - 50 degree instead of 70-80 or more. >> >> So it takes a lot longer to get up to temperature, and unless your insulation is top notch it's all a waste of time. The full page colour adverts from Eon seem to me to be misleading at best. >> >> Alasdair Lawrance >> >> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. >> >> >> >>> On 18 Sep 2022, at 15:11, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?Decent insulation is really the best answer regardless of the fuel used to heat. My house is a Victorian semi. Roof pretty well insulated, and double glazed. But walls solid 9" brick. I simply couldn't tolerate the work/mess needed to insulate the insides. I am looking at insulating the outside of the flank wall. However, there is only a 700mm passageway between the houses. >>> >>>> Well yes. But the technology of boilers has improved a lot in each 10 year cycle.... so maybe they are right to design something with that life? So hard to argue. And in 10 years time you won't be buying a gas boiler. >>>> >>>> The heat pump already makes good sense, with the only two caveats being - have you got somewhere to put it? And is your house anything like well enough insulated to make it plausible? >>>> >>>> I have a friend in a very old (listed) set of alms houses. The property has a big garden behind, so the plan is to use the new Kensa system that puts boreholes down in the garden and then sends a sort of "heat main" round. Each alms house in the block taps in to this, with a shoe-box heat pump in each property running their hot water and heating in place of the old gas boilers. Shared price of the "main" vastly improves the economics. >>>> >>>> My ground source pump has been running since 2014 without any maintenance, and with the unit price of electricity not going up in the same way that gas is, this winter isn't looking too scary. >>>> >>>> Landrover just lost the plot. What they sold in volume was true utility vehicles that were really tough, and had almost no competition. The new Defender is just staggeringly expensive Chelsea tractor stuff, same as everyone else. >>>> >>>> Chris W >>>> >>>> >>>>>> On 18/09/2022 14:32, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Odd, isn't it? No matter what make and price of boiler you buy, the trade all says a life of 10 years. Last one I had - an cast iron Potterton, a BE RS, did near 30 years. And only replaced to get the better efficiency of a condensing boiler, and when doing a major refurbishment of the room it is in. And the latest most efficient boiler ain't going to give me the same energy savings. But. I want to keep this one going as long as practical. Then decide whether a heat pump makes more sense. The only thing likely to kill it is a major PCB failure, as can't find anyone who repairs them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sad LR are poor with spares - but doesn't surprise me. More interested in selling new vehicles. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> -- >>> Dave P London >>> SW >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Dave P London SW From alanaudio at me.com Mon Sep 19 01:58:30 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 07:58:30 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wish I'd trained as a plumber... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Our oil fired burner heats the hot water on demand, which means that there is no hot water tank in the house, just a small well-insulated hot water tank within the boiler so that hot water is instantly available. It works well, especially as we normally take showers rather than a bath. If running a bath, you need to keep the hot tap flow to about 75% or else it outpaces the ability of the boiler to keep up, but it still fills up quickly at 75% flow. You know you?ve got it right if you feel the temperature of the water and it?s still running hot. Hot water supply would be a problem for us if we switched to a heat pump as none of them offer instant hot water. There might be a way of implementing it if energy can be stored locally, either in the form of heat ( such as very hot sand ), or electrical energy ( a battery or enormous capacitor ) so that hot water can be rapidly heated for about ten minutes at a time without overloading the mains supply. However I?m not aware of any manufacturers appearing to think along those lines. The normal solution is to have a hot water storage tank in the house, but there would then the the problem of finding somewhere to locate it and then running pipes to suit. As with underfloor heating, the amount of disruption would really only make it a practical proposition if major renovation was being carried out. Alan > On 18 Sep 2022, at 23:46, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > ?A large enough heat pump system can heat to the same degree as a boiler. But with the lower temperature water, needs larger rads. Or, indeed underfloor, where this is possible. > > I was idly musing if a hybrid system might make sense - to avoid have to replace all pipework and rads. A small gas boiler to top up heat from a heat pump? > > Must admit to wondering about the hot water. Stored water is recommended to be at about 60C to be sterile? > >> On 18/09/2022 17:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> The general consensus seems to be that heat pumps are best deployed on new builds, or during major renovations, because the insulation needs to be much more effective than normal and the radiators ( or under floor heating ) need to be suitable for lower water temperatures being circulated through them. A typical British house is unlikely to be well suited for heat pumps without substantial modifications. >> >> Heat pumps do a great job of keeping the background heat at a comfortable level. Many users would also need an additional heat source in a living room. >> >> In our village, we?re starting to get more power cuts than usual and heat pumps might make things worse. Western power are suggesting that part of the problem is caused by people recharging electric cars, which overload the overhead wires and distribution transformers, but recharging mostly happens at night. The cuts mostly happen during the day. >> >> I don?t know the answer to how we should best heat our houses in the future, but it does seem obvious that having better insulated houses would be a sensible step in the right direction and would be beneficial whatever fuel is used in the future. >> >> Incidentally, fusion power has often been said to be thirty years away for the last fifty years, but a lot of progress is being made at the moment. Chinese scientists are predicting fusion power might happen in six years and there are incremental advancements being made all around the globe. Green hydrogen is now being made in a lot of places and at scale too. We may be looking at completely different technologies when our new boilers are ten years old. >> >> Alan >> >> >> >>>> On 18 Sep 2022, at 16:41, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?We're out in the sticks and fairly well insulated, but a good 1/3rd of the house, a converted canal warehouse is 9" brick, the rest ordinary cavity, and the floor is mostly earth with a concrete skim, so I'm not considering any further insulation. >>> >>> I understand, correct me if I'm wrong, that simply adding a heat pump instead of boiler is no use without looking at the radiators as well, as a pump runs much, much cooler - maybe 40 - 50 degree instead of 70-80 or more. >>> >>> So it takes a lot longer to get up to temperature, and unless your insulation is top notch it's all a waste of time. The full page colour adverts from Eon seem to me to be misleading at best. >>> >>> Alasdair Lawrance >>> >>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 18 Sep 2022, at 15:11, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Decent insulation is really the best answer regardless of the fuel used to heat. My house is a Victorian semi. Roof pretty well insulated, and double glazed. But walls solid 9" brick. I simply couldn't tolerate the work/mess needed to insulate the insides. I am looking at insulating the outside of the flank wall. However, there is only a 700mm passageway between the houses. >>>> >>>>> Well yes. But the technology of boilers has improved a lot in each 10 year cycle.... so maybe they are right to design something with that life? So hard to argue. And in 10 years time you won't be buying a gas boiler. >>>>> >>>>> The heat pump already makes good sense, with the only two caveats being - have you got somewhere to put it? And is your house anything like well enough insulated to make it plausible? >>>>> >>>>> I have a friend in a very old (listed) set of alms houses. The property has a big garden behind, so the plan is to use the new Kensa system that puts boreholes down in the garden and then sends a sort of "heat main" round. Each alms house in the block taps in to this, with a shoe-box heat pump in each property running their hot water and heating in place of the old gas boilers. Shared price of the "main" vastly improves the economics. >>>>> >>>>> My ground source pump has been running since 2014 without any maintenance, and with the unit price of electricity not going up in the same way that gas is, this winter isn't looking too scary. >>>>> >>>>> Landrover just lost the plot. What they sold in volume was true utility vehicles that were really tough, and had almost no competition. The new Defender is just staggeringly expensive Chelsea tractor stuff, same as everyone else. >>>>> >>>>> Chris W >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> On 18/09/2022 14:32, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Odd, isn't it? No matter what make and price of boiler you buy, the trade all says a life of 10 years. Last one I had - an cast iron Potterton, a BE RS, did near 30 years. And only replaced to get the better efficiency of a condensing boiler, and when doing a major refurbishment of the room it is in. And the latest most efficient boiler ain't going to give me the same energy savings. But. I want to keep this one going as long as practical. Then decide whether a heat pump makes more sense. The only thing likely to kill it is a major PCB failure, as can't find anyone who repairs them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sad LR are poor with spares - but doesn't surprise me. More interested in selling new vehicles. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dave P London >>>> SW >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Dave P London > SW > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Mon Sep 19 02:03:34 2022 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:03:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Arena video Message-ID: Thought you might like to see this - one of the cameras at Andrea Bocelli's arena concert in Liverpool last night. I'll post a couple of derig photos later but here's a chance to have guess or comment about the kit! Never would have a seat in my days (mid 1960s)! Best regards Alec Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20220918_192501.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2297279 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Mon Sep 19 02:43:08 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 08:43:08 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Arena video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As is so often the case these days, it?s a big lens with a little camera bolted onto the back of it. I?m guessing that the seat was provided by the camera operator or facility company as it?s taller than a normal seat borrowed from an arena. Folding bar stools like that ( typically from Ikea ) are often kept on the tender to be used for commentators who need to be able to see over a balcony so that they have a sight line to the near-side touch line. Standing up goes back a long way in television OBs. The first electronic television OB anywhere in the world was of the funeral procession for King George V. That first scanner didn?t have any seats, everybody in the scanner stood up throughout the broadcast. I?m not expecting many of the staff within the scanners used during today?s funeral coverage to be standing up while doing their work. OB cameramen have been known to improvise seats from lens boxes and other flight cases to save their legs during long broadcasts, but would generally stand while actually operating the camera. One or two cameramen of a certain age tended to remain seated while operating the wide angle camera on the gantry during football matches. In essence, they only have to pan broadly with the action and there isn?t much critical focus pulling going on. Looking at the lens in Alec?s picture, I would have thought that the camera would be used for close up shots and that with older cameras there might only be limited opportunities to sit down, but with that large colour viewfinder ( you didn?t have those either Alec ) there is no need for the cameraman to have his head stuck right into the viewfinder and maybe operating while sitting down is practical. On a related topic, when I did drama shoots and started working from the set with my equipment on an Ursta Cart, instead of the nice comfy chair in the sound control room, I was having to remain standing all day and in all weathers. It felt as though it was a much healthier way to work. Alan > On 19 Sep 2022, at 08:04, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > Thought you might like to see this - one of the cameras at Andrea Bocelli's arena concert in Liverpool last night. > > I'll post a couple of derig photos later > but here's a chance to have guess or comment about the kit! > > Never would have a seat in my days (mid 1960s)! > > Best regards Alec > > > Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20220918_192501.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 34867 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com Mon Sep 19 11:19:45 2022 From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 17:19:45 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. Message-ID: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> After watching today's events almost non-stop from about 10:30 this morning, I have to say I was most impressed: what an excellent job was done by all. The sound department (anyone know who was involved?) did a terrific job covering the mile-and-a-quarter long procession to Hyde Park. Matching music all the way, even though the director kept jumping from end to end of the procession. Did I see 4 separate marching bands? A great success! John Nottage From alawrance1 at me.com Mon Sep 19 11:43:49 2022 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 17:43:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> References: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <3CE7FA97-798A-485D-93E0-937271F00993@me.com> Really first rate work from all involved, I was beginning to think we couldn't handle this kind of gig any more. Seemed like every jimmy-jib in the country was in use some really good moves, very good lighting as well. Too many continuously moving shots for my liking, but I'm just old fashioned. Difficult sound, but very well handled. Shot of the show? The overhead shot in the nave of the Abbey, with the four pillars and chandeliers in the corners, and coffin near centre of frame, Might have been a remote? Someone had to set it up properly! Congratulations again to all involved, it was much appreciated. Alasdair Lawrance (# 037) alawrance1 at me.com Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > On 19 Sep 2022, at 17:19, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote: > > After watching today's events almost non-stop from about 10:30 this morning, I have to say I was most impressed: what an excellent job was done by all. The sound department (anyone know who was involved?) did a terrific job covering the mile-and-a-quarter long procession to Hyde Park. Matching music all the way, even though the director kept jumping from end to end of the procession. Did I see 4 separate marching bands? > A great success! > > John Nottage > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hughsnape at talktalk.net Mon Sep 19 11:47:19 2022 From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 17:47:19 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> References: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> Message-ID: It was indeed quite something and, I also, was very struck by the continuous and consistent sound from the marching band. Radio mic. on the glockenspiel was my ex. colleague Jeff Booth?s advice; I tried it once and it worked quite well! With regard to some of the facilities and audio crew this from a Facebook group: NEP, Cloudbass, Timeline, EMG(?) Sound Alliance master sound for the abbey mixed by Matt Charles. 17 TV OB trucks (I think) plus BBC Radio OB?s there too. Hugh > On 19 Sep 2022, at 17:19, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote: > > After watching today's events almost non-stop from about 10:30 this morning, I have to say I was most impressed: what an excellent job was done by all. The sound department (anyone know who was involved?) did a terrific job covering the mile-and-a-quarter long procession to Hyde Park. Matching music all the way, even though the director kept jumping from end to end of the procession. Did I see 4 separate marching bands? > A great success! > > John Nottage > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Mon Sep 19 13:03:54 2022 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 19:03:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: <3CE7FA97-798A-485D-93E0-937271F00993@me.com> References: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> <3CE7FA97-798A-485D-93E0-937271F00993@me.com> Message-ID: <5C1BAC5B33994ED8BEC72FF2C4F40C78@Gigabyte> Anyone know where the BBC ?on site? studio stuff was? Early on in the week it seemed to be ?real? and at Canada Gate day and night (a bit odd with whats is name presenters grey hair reflecting on the window) Today it seemed to be across from The Abbey. Was that another similar one on the roof of Central Hall (as we used to use) Both probably real as todays had reflections of the Abbey on the glass table but an odd white line across at times which may have been the edge of a safety glass sheet. Some of the constant tracking was a bit disruptive but relieved boredom. Our outing today was to the A4 in Brentford and the procession wizzed past and looking at my recording, just that little bit of the procession was missed out although the helicopter was overhead. No tech escape as a few yards away was an ITN camera with minimal equipment ? all too simple nowadays. Amazing crowds at Windsor and all in all a good day and it shows it can still be done despite new technology and equipment/staff shortages. All the folks deserve congrats! Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gary at garyclarkesound.com Mon Sep 19 13:11:55 2022 From: gary at garyclarkesound.com (Gary Clarke) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 19:11:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: <5C1BAC5B33994ED8BEC72FF2C4F40C78@Gigabyte> References: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> <3CE7FA97-798A-485D-93E0-937271F00993@me.com> <5C1BAC5B33994ED8BEC72FF2C4F40C78@Gigabyte> Message-ID: Yes, roof of Westminster Central Hall BBC on left. Other broadcasters on right and on top of other buildings nearby. On Mon, 19 Sep 2022, 19:04 Mike Jordan via Tech1, wrote: > Anyone know where the BBC ?on site? studio stuff was? Early on in the week > it seemed to be ?real? and at Canada Gate day and night (a bit odd with > whats is name presenters grey hair reflecting on the window) > Today it seemed to be across from The Abbey. Was that another similar one > on the roof of Central Hall (as we used to use) > Both probably real as todays had reflections of the Abbey on the glass > table but an odd white line across at times which may have been the edge of > a safety glass sheet. > Some of the constant tracking was a bit disruptive but relieved boredom. > Our outing today was to the A4 in Brentford and the procession wizzed past > and looking at my recording, just that little bit of the procession was > missed out although the helicopter was overhead. No tech escape as a few > yards away was an ITN camera with minimal equipment ? all too simple > nowadays. > Amazing crowds at Windsor and all in all a good day and it shows it can > still be done despite new technology and equipment/staff shortages. > All the folks deserve congrats! > > Mike > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20220918_132848.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3692900 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hughsnape at talktalk.net Mon Sep 19 13:26:54 2022 From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 19:26:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: References: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> <3CE7FA97-798A-485D-93E0-937271F00993@me.com> <5C1BAC5B33994ED8BEC72FF2C4F40C78@Gigabyte> Message-ID: <8EA0E2F8-6459-4622-9EE4-EC5113D0289D@talktalk.net> No bars to accompany the lineup van though . . . > On 19 Sep 2022, at 19:11, Gary Clarke via Tech1 wrote: > > Yes, roof of Westminster Central Hall > BBC on left. Other broadcasters on right and on top of other buildings nearby. > > > On Mon, 19 Sep 2022, 19:04 Mike Jordan via Tech1, > wrote: > Anyone know where the BBC ?on site? studio stuff was? Early on in the week it seemed to be ?real? and at Canada Gate day and night (a bit odd with whats is name presenters grey hair reflecting on the window) > Today it seemed to be across from The Abbey. Was that another similar one on the roof of Central Hall (as we used to use) > Both probably real as todays had reflections of the Abbey on the glass table but an odd white line across at times which may have been the edge of a safety glass sheet. > Some of the constant tracking was a bit disruptive but relieved boredom. > Our outing today was to the A4 in Brentford and the procession wizzed past and looking at my recording, just that little bit of the procession was missed out although the helicopter was overhead. No tech escape as a few yards away was an ITN camera with minimal equipment ? all too simple nowadays. > Amazing crowds at Windsor and all in all a good day and it shows it can still be done despite new technology and equipment/staff shortages. > All the folks deserve congrats! > > Mike > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > <20220918_132848.jpg>-- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Mon Sep 19 13:41:57 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 19:41:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> References: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <679e5138-7dae-dcb8-7510-48c3ef0cfd6a@davesound.co.uk> Felt a bit sorry for the cameramen on the A4. Hanging around all day for a minute on air showing the hearse en route to Windsor. -- Dave P London SW From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Mon Sep 19 13:43:10 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 19:43:10 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> References: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <824b4d86-2cd0-ab47-004f-c4abce485c4e@gmail.com> Felt a bit sorry for the cameramen on the A4. Hanging around all day for a minute on air showing the hearse en route to Windsor. From waresound at msn.com Mon Sep 19 15:33:52 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 20:33:52 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: <5C1BAC5B33994ED8BEC72FF2C4F40C78@Gigabyte> References: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> <3CE7FA97-798A-485D-93E0-937271F00993@me.com> <5C1BAC5B33994ED8BEC72FF2C4F40C78@Gigabyte> Message-ID: Overall pretty impressive, but I have written to the BBC to ask that when they do my State Funeral, can I have that distracting interview three-shot static, not meandering back and forth, please? I?ve hated that throughout! In the Abbey I started off not liking the constant slow zooming in and out, but came to realise that it did, at least, mean we could stay on those shots for longer - no manic cutting for no good reason. It would be interesting to know how much of it was robotic cameras on preset shots, I suspect most of it? We watched from start to finish - no mean feat for me, so must have been good! I have a personal Queen encounter story, but prob no need to tell here. I daresay many of us have. Cheers, Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad On 19 Sep 2022, at 19:04, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote: ? Anyone know where the BBC ?on site? studio stuff was? Early on in the week it seemed to be ?real? and at Canada Gate day and night (a bit odd with whats is name presenters grey hair reflecting on the window) Today it seemed to be across from The Abbey. Was that another similar one on the roof of Central Hall (as we used to use) Both probably real as todays had reflections of the Abbey on the glass table but an odd white line across at times which may have been the edge of a safety glass sheet. Some of the constant tracking was a bit disruptive but relieved boredom. Our outing today was to the A4 in Brentford and the procession wizzed past and looking at my recording, just that little bit of the procession was missed out although the helicopter was overhead. No tech escape as a few yards away was an ITN camera with minimal equipment ? all too simple nowadays. Amazing crowds at Windsor and all in all a good day and it shows it can still be done despite new technology and equipment/staff shortages. All the folks deserve congrats! Mike -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Mon Sep 19 16:21:22 2022 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 22:21:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all In-Reply-To: <3CE7FA97-798A-485D-93E0-937271F00993@me.com> References: <3CE7FA97-798A-485D-93E0-937271F00993@me.com> Message-ID: <5D1A1A00-9B4C-4BC0-A320-64F602E2D8C0@gmail.com> Yes it was all very well covered and I wondered where they got so many cameras from, not to mention the operators. In contrast to what Alasdair thought, for us the worst shot was that one from miles up in the dome looking vertically down at the central cross where the coffin was. Interesting architecturally as it was to see the classic layout of the Abbey, they cut to it just as the bearers were putting the coffin in place on the bier and again as they were picking it up at the end, when we would?ve preferred to see the action in detail from ground level as those present would?ve. I agree about the excessive movement on shot, the repeated tightening in on the display on the coffin and worse, in the interview that Hugh Edwards did with his two guests afterwards, where the camera holding the central group shot moved incessantly left to right and back again. Such moves on interviews are quite unnatural from the point of view of an onlooker who would remain still and are so last-century, Geoff Hawkes > On 19 Sep 2022, at 17:44, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Really first rate work from all involved, I was beginning to think we couldn't handle this kind of gig any more. > > Seemed like every jimmy-jib in the country was in use some really good moves, very good lighting as well. > > Too many continuously moving shots for my liking, but I'm just old fashioned. Difficult sound, but very well handled. > > Shot of the show? The overhead shot in the nave of the Abbey, with the four pillars and chandeliers in the corners, and coffin near centre of frame, Might have been a remote? Someone had to set it up properly! > > Congratulations again to all involved, it was much appreciated. > > Alasdair Lawrance (# 037) > alawrance1 at me.com > > Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > > > > > > > > > > >> On 19 Sep 2022, at 17:19, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote: >> >> After watching today's events almost non-stop from about 10:30 this morning, I have to say I was most impressed: what an excellent job was done by all. The sound department (anyone know who was involved?) did a terrific job covering the mile-and-a-quarter long procession to Hyde Park. Matching music all the way, even though the director kept jumping from end to end of the procession. Did I see 4 separate marching bands? >> A great success! >> >> John Nottage >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barryaustin2000 at icloud.com Mon Sep 19 16:37:21 2022 From: barryaustin2000 at icloud.com (Barry Austin) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 22:37:21 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. Message-ID: <18D7FC4B-DDAB-447A-891D-34698DD19D52@icloud.com> ?I particularly appreciated the no commentary during the service, letting what was happening speak for itself, all to often there?s continual comments on what we can all see Barry Austin Sent from my iPad > On 19 Sep 2022, at 17:20, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote: > ?After watching today's events almost non-stop from about 10:30 this morning, I have to say I was most impressed: what an excellent job was done by all. The sound department (anyone know who was involved?) did a terrific job covering the mile-and-a-quarter long procession to Hyde Park. Matching music all the way, even though the director kept jumping from end to end of the procession. Did I see 4 separate marching bands? > A great success! > > John Nottage > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Mon Sep 19 17:02:29 2022 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 23:02:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: <18D7FC4B-DDAB-447A-891D-34698DD19D52@icloud.com> References: <18D7FC4B-DDAB-447A-891D-34698DD19D52@icloud.com> Message-ID: <1C9D2CB2-22E0-467D-9396-4818EE9DD265@howell61.f9.co.uk> Agreed, television at its best, I enjoyed David Dimbleby's measured commentary, a fine delivery, reminded me of his father, however there was severe sibilant distortion on his mic, was my tv (Freeview) or did anyone else notice this? Regards, Hibou. From mibridge at mac.com Mon Sep 19 17:14:01 2022 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 23:14:01 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: <1C9D2CB2-22E0-467D-9396-4818EE9DD265@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <1C9D2CB2-22E0-467D-9396-4818EE9DD265@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: <988EA98B-D23B-40CF-97DC-08640772E142@mac.com> I have to say I didn?t notice a problem with David Dimbleby?s mic, but that could because i found it such a relief to hear him, rather than the Welsh gent! Mike G > On 19 Sep 2022, at 23:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Agreed, television at its best, I enjoyed David Dimbleby's measured commentary, a fine delivery, reminded me of his father, however there was severe sibilant distortion on his mic, was my tv (Freeview) or did anyone else notice this? > > Regards, > Hibou. > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From barryaustin2000 at icloud.com Mon Sep 19 17:28:02 2022 From: barryaustin2000 at icloud.com (Barry Austin) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 23:28:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. Message-ID: <541F4F5B-A54B-4ACD-AFE6-091676AEE040@icloud.com> ?I think the shot of the day was the overhead shot as the coffin went under the arch into Horseguards Parade from an overhead camera mounted in the apex of the arch. Frontal of the approaching gun carriage, then pan down and swivel as it goes directly under the camera, pan back up on the receding carriage, done with pinpoint accuracy focused on the flag draped coffin. No idea how it was accomplished or who would do it, just a wonderful shot. Barry Austin Sent from my iPad > On 19 Sep 2022, at 23:02, John Howell wrote: > ?Agreed, television at its best, I enjoyed David Dimbleby's measured commentary, a fine delivery, reminded me of his father, however there was severe sibilant distortion on his mic, was my tv (Freeview) or did anyone else notice this? > > Regards, > Hibou. From barry-wilkinson at sky.com Mon Sep 19 17:30:27 2022 From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 23:30:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The funeral References: <907EBFE6-96BC-4B6F-9E02-B97A3B98DB1C.ref@sky.com> Message-ID: <907EBFE6-96BC-4B6F-9E02-B97A3B98DB1C@sky.com> I was stunned by the immaculate events today, planned to the tiniest detail. I am not sure how many cameras were involved and how it was all integrated into a seamless coverage which was both spectacular and a lesson to the world that the UK does it best in many ways. My one minor gripe was the coverage inside the church at Windsor. The quality of pictures and sound was top notch but I thought the director had a strange way of cutting. I used to work on Songs of Praise as a cameraman which is where cameramen perfected the technique of timing a development shot( maybe a zoom ) to match the music exactly with a specific gentle beginning and end. The coverage I saw was the opposite. Zooms seemed to be moving when cut to and the director seemed to cut randomly from the middle of a zoom to a static shot and then back to the middle of another camera move, never allowing the shot to settle. As an ex cameraman of 30 years plus of experience this went against the grain of years of perfection of technique. Maybe you can call me Mr Picky but during a day of almost perfection it really annoyed me. The only other slightly amusing thing was when a doddery religious person dropped a small square of white paper into a position where it remained near to the coffin . I don?t thing anyone dared to bend down and pick it up and admit it was tomorrows shopping list. Maybe? Sent from my iPad From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Tue Sep 20 03:54:46 2022 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 09:54:46 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: References: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> <3CE7FA97-798A-485D-93E0-937271F00993@me.com> <5C1BAC5B33994ED8BEC72FF2C4F40C78@Gigabyte> Message-ID: <251B7320229D4F94B9535BCDABAA862A@Gigabyte> Studio on roof of Central Hall shows nicely in this as well (on BBC web site) in this sad picture. Also the huge stands on Storys Gate (?) which hides some secret techie place i seem to remember and the camera hides by the main door. I wonder how many of these special things are kept (and where) together with all the special lighting rig bits for Abbey and St Pauls? Mike From: Gary Clarke Sent: Monday, September 19, 2022 7:11 PM To: Mike Jordan Cc: Alasdair Lawrance ; John Nottage ; Tech Ops List Subject: Re: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. Yes, roof of Westminster Central Hall BBC on left. Other broadcasters on right and on top of other buildings nearby. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Sep 20 04:06:56 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 10:06:56 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: <988EA98B-D23B-40CF-97DC-08640772E142@mac.com> References: <1C9D2CB2-22E0-467D-9396-4818EE9DD265@howell61.f9.co.uk> <988EA98B-D23B-40CF-97DC-08640772E142@mac.com> Message-ID: <091edcf4-6357-0021-abf7-e33cf9c249fa@amps.net> I reckon that the Oscar goes to the Duke of Norfolk - the Marshall in charge of organising these ceremonial events. Getting everything together with the number of troops, the logistics & timing involved appeared absolutely seamless. Huw is pretty good when there's a script, but for me, he lacks the gravitas and background info that Richard Dimbleby used to have. and was prepared with. In the past, Graham Haines did a great job on sound covering the bands' pick up for Trooping of the Colour. I wondered previously whether there was a radio mic on the drummer, as the quality was consistent throughout the processions. Exactly 75 paces per minute, as mentioned in an earlier commentary - out of interest I timed it to see. Felt sorry for C3R - he was whisked all over the place in a short while, he must have been tired out. Pleased at the walk-abouts, would have given the recipients of a handshake something to remember all their lives. If anyone had tried to cause a demo or disruption, I suspect that the weapons were loaded with live rounds, and with pikestaffs & bayonets abounding, wouldn't have given much for their life expectancy: /(visions of Corporal Jones in Dad's Army: "Permission to spike him, Sir?")/ Lucky with the sunny weather - would not have looked so good if the Guards had been in their grey coats. Pleased to note that the bearer party was the same each time. My neighbour who knows about things, told me that the Royal coffins are lead lined, maybe that's why there were eight bearers rather than six. I hope they all got their right bearskins back. Now, Nick - tell us your Royal story, you tease, you! Regards to all Pat H On 19/09/2022 23:14, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > I have to say I didn?t notice a problem with David Dimbleby?s mic, but that could because i found it such a relief to hear him, rather than the Welsh gent! > > Mike G > >> On 19 Sep 2022, at 23:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?Agreed, television at its best, I enjoyed David Dimbleby's measured commentary, a fine delivery, reminded me of his father, however there was severe sibilant distortion on his mic, was my tv (Freeview) or did anyone else notice this? >> >> Regards, >> Hibou. >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Tue Sep 20 04:53:28 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 10:53:28 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: <091edcf4-6357-0021-abf7-e33cf9c249fa@amps.net> References: <091edcf4-6357-0021-abf7-e33cf9c249fa@amps.net> Message-ID: One of the little details I?ve seen a couple of times during the preparation for a big military parade is a sergeant measuring the number of paces along the route. He uses a giant wooden calliper which can be adjusted and locked to the exact length of one pace. There is a round vertical handle and as he marches along, he twirls the handle so that the calliper covers a precise distance for every step. He is counting the number of steps taken and will then return to barracks to calibrate the marching step of the band. Back at the barracks, they use the calliper to mark out a suitable number of paces ( let?s say 100 ) on the parade ground and the band practices marching to check that it hits the end mark on the 100th pace. On the big day, by starting the band at a predetermined mark and time, marching at a calibrated step and tempo, the band should finish their playing at an exactly determined time and place. It?s quite impressive to notice a band marching for a couple of miles and finishing playing the last beat as they hit their stopping point at exactly the scheduled time. I had worked out some of this by observation and deduction, but last year the guy who fitted my kitchen used to be a guardsman and he told me what a tedious process it was practicing marching up and down until the paces are exactly the right length. Fortunately the repertoire of the marching bands is limited and the routes are much the same each time, so most planning assumes the standard length of stride and no fine adjustment is needed. Any bets for when the Coronation might be? I?m pretty confident that the BBC will be trying to make sure it doesn?t coincide with Wimbledon or any of the massive OB events each year. Alan > On 20 Sep 2022, at 10:07, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > I reckon that the Oscar goes to the Duke of Norfolk - the Marshall in charge of organising these ceremonial events. > > Getting everything together with the number of troops, the logistics & timing involved appeared absolutely seamless. > > Huw is pretty good when there's a script, but for me, he lacks the gravitas and background info that Richard Dimbleby > used to have. and was prepared with. > > In the past, Graham Haines did a great job on sound covering the bands' pick up for Trooping of the Colour. > I wondered previously whether there was a radio mic on the drummer, as the quality was consistent throughout > the processions. Exactly 75 paces per minute, as mentioned in an earlier commentary - out of interest I timed it to see. > > Felt sorry for C3R - he was whisked all over the place in a short while, he must have been tired out. > Pleased at the walk-abouts, would have given the recipients of a handshake something to remember > all their lives. > > If anyone had tried to cause a demo or disruption, I suspect that the weapons were loaded with live rounds, > and with pikestaffs & bayonets abounding, wouldn't have given much for their life expectancy: > (visions of Corporal Jones in Dad's Army: "Permission to spike him, Sir?") > > Lucky with the sunny weather - would not have looked so good if the Guards had been in their grey coats. > > Pleased to note that the bearer party was the same each time. My neighbour who knows about things, > told me that the Royal coffins are lead lined, maybe that's why there were eight bearers rather than six. > I hope they all got their right bearskins back. > > Now, Nick - tell us your Royal story, you tease, you! > > Regards to all > > Pat H > > On 19/09/2022 23:14, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >> I have to say I didn?t notice a problem with David Dimbleby?s mic, but that could because i found it such a relief to hear him, rather than the Welsh gent! >> >> Mike G >> >>> On 19 Sep 2022, at 23:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?Agreed, television at its best, I enjoyed David Dimbleby's measured commentary, a fine delivery, reminded me of his father, however there was severe sibilant distortion on his mic, was my tv (Freeview) or did anyone else notice this? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Hibou. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Tue Sep 20 05:11:44 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 11:11:44 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <802E17B6-234A-4515-A456-EF06D3E7AE29@me.com> I forgot to include the picture. This pic is not exactly what I?ve seen, but it looks as though it?s the same sort of thing. Alan > On 20 Sep 2022, at 10:53, Alan Taylor wrote: > > ? > One of the little details I?ve seen a couple of times during the preparation for a big military parade is a sergeant measuring the number of paces along the route. He uses a giant wooden calliper which can be adjusted and locked to the exact length of one pace. There is a round vertical handle and as he marches along, he twirls the handle so that the calliper covers a precise distance for every step. He is counting the number of steps taken and will then return to barracks to calibrate the marching step of the band. > > Back at the barracks, they use the calliper to mark out a suitable number of paces ( let?s say 100 ) on the parade ground and the band practices marching to check that it hits the end mark on the 100th pace. On the big day, by starting the band at a predetermined mark and time, marching at a calibrated step and tempo, the band should finish their playing at an exactly determined time and place. It?s quite impressive to notice a band marching for a couple of miles and finishing playing the last beat as they hit their stopping point at exactly the scheduled time. > > I had worked out some of this by observation and deduction, but last year the guy who fitted my kitchen used to be a guardsman and he told me what a tedious process it was practicing marching up and down until the paces are exactly the right length. Fortunately the repertoire of the marching bands is limited and the routes are much the same each time, so most planning assumes the standard length of stride and no fine adjustment is needed. > > Any bets for when the Coronation might be? I?m pretty confident that the BBC will be trying to make sure it doesn?t coincide with Wimbledon or any of the massive OB events each year. > > Alan > > > >>> On 20 Sep 2022, at 10:07, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >>> >> ? >> I reckon that the Oscar goes to the Duke of Norfolk - the Marshall in charge of organising these ceremonial events. >> >> Getting everything together with the number of troops, the logistics & timing involved appeared absolutely seamless. >> >> Huw is pretty good when there's a script, but for me, he lacks the gravitas and background info that Richard Dimbleby >> used to have. and was prepared with. >> >> In the past, Graham Haines did a great job on sound covering the bands' pick up for Trooping of the Colour. >> I wondered previously whether there was a radio mic on the drummer, as the quality was consistent throughout >> the processions. Exactly 75 paces per minute, as mentioned in an earlier commentary - out of interest I timed it to see. >> >> Felt sorry for C3R - he was whisked all over the place in a short while, he must have been tired out. >> Pleased at the walk-abouts, would have given the recipients of a handshake something to remember >> all their lives. >> >> If anyone had tried to cause a demo or disruption, I suspect that the weapons were loaded with live rounds, >> and with pikestaffs & bayonets abounding, wouldn't have given much for their life expectancy: >> (visions of Corporal Jones in Dad's Army: "Permission to spike him, Sir?") >> >> Lucky with the sunny weather - would not have looked so good if the Guards had been in their grey coats. >> >> Pleased to note that the bearer party was the same each time. My neighbour who knows about things, >> told me that the Royal coffins are lead lined, maybe that's why there were eight bearers rather than six. >> I hope they all got their right bearskins back. >> >> Now, Nick - tell us your Royal story, you tease, you! >> >> Regards to all >> >> Pat H >> >> On 19/09/2022 23:14, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >>> I have to say I didn?t notice a problem with David Dimbleby?s mic, but that could because i found it such a relief to hear him, rather than the Welsh gent! >>> >>> Mike G >>> >>>> On 19 Sep 2022, at 23:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Agreed, television at its best, I enjoyed David Dimbleby's measured commentary, a fine delivery, reminded me of his father, however there was severe sibilant distortion on his mic, was my tv (Freeview) or did anyone else notice this? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Hibou. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 123795 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Sep 20 06:15:12 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 12:15:12 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Marching pacing & police dogs In-Reply-To: <802E17B6-234A-4515-A456-EF06D3E7AE29@me.com> References: <802E17B6-234A-4515-A456-EF06D3E7AE29@me.com> Message-ID: <24f8569e-1434-cbc1-7202-fe126276edbe@amps.net> Absolutely, Alan, I worked on a programme as a run-up to The Royal Tournament (pity that no longer happens) and it came out as a sideline, that for the Trooping of the Colour, the procession distance was measured in the way you describe, such that the parade comes to a halt precisely on the end note of music, in exactly the right place. For the Royal Tournament, we went to film the RAF Police dogs display in training. The sergeant gave us a pep talk: "If a dog approaches you, do not try and run away! They are trained to sit in front of you and give tongue!" I heard a story that a retired Police dog was rehomed by a couple, whose house was burgled. The dog immediately went into guard mode and pinned the felon into a corner. A Police dog handler had to be called in to get the dog off! I like Alsatians, a friend always has a rescue German Shepherd & her current pet is the gentlest creature I've come across. Regards, and a pat to all doggies. Pat H On 20/09/2022 11:11, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > I forgot to include the picture. ?This pic is not exactly what I?ve > seen, but it looks as though it?s the same sort of thing. > > image0.jpeg > > Alan > > >> On 20 Sep 2022, at 10:53, Alan Taylor wrote: >> >> ? >> One of the little details I?ve seen a couple of times during the >> preparation for a big military parade is a sergeant measuring the >> number of paces along the route. ?He uses a giant wooden calliper >> which can be adjusted and locked to the exact length of one pace. >> ?There is a round vertical handle and as he marches along, he twirls >> the handle so that the calliper covers a precise distance for every >> step. ?He is counting the number of steps taken and will then return >> to barracks to calibrate the marching step of the band. >> >> Back at the barracks, they use the calliper to mark out a suitable >> number of paces ( let?s say 100 ) on the parade ground and the band >> practices marching to check that it hits the end mark on the 100th >> pace. ?On the big day, by starting the band at a predetermined mark >> and time, marching at a calibrated step and tempo, the band should >> finish their playing at an exactly determined time and place. It?s >> quite impressive to notice a band marching for a couple of miles and >> finishing playing the last beat as they hit their stopping point at >> exactly the scheduled time. >> >> I had worked out some of this by observation and deduction, but last >> year the guy who fitted my kitchen used to be a guardsman and he told >> me what a tedious process it was practicing marching up and down >> until the paces are exactly the right length. Fortunately the >> repertoire of the marching bands is limited and the routes are much >> the same each time, so most planning assumes the standard length of >> stride and no fine adjustment is needed. >> >> Any bets for when the Coronation might be? ?I?m pretty confident that >> the BBC will be trying to make sure it doesn?t coincide with >> Wimbledon or any of the massive OB events each year. >> >> Alan >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 123795 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Sep 20 06:30:09 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 12:30:09 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: References: <091edcf4-6357-0021-abf7-e33cf9c249fa@amps.net> Message-ID: <84a3502e-c017-e023-3ecc-01c089767658@amps.net> There was speculation, that it might be on the anniversary of E II R's coronation - June 2nd 2023. I wondered if some cable routing might be left in place, but there is a risk of theft. Wasn't there a posting about OB cables being nicked, believing them to be copper, but they were fibre optic! What's the latest technology - are vision, sound and talkback routed down the same cable - multiplexed in some way? Best Pat H On 20/09/2022 10:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > Any bets for when the Coronation might be? ?I?m pretty confident that > the BBC will be trying to make sure it doesn?t coincide with Wimbledon > or any of the massive OB events each year. > > Alan From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Tue Sep 20 06:43:13 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 12:43:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> References: <650a3dca-8d81-b916-11fe-3a1da213a9cc@googlemail.com> Message-ID: Yes - very impressive. Such a complex thing to handle with little or no rehearsal. And everything pretty well rock solid, as regards connections and routing, etc. Ones I felt sorry for were the cameramen on the A4. Hanging around all day for a minute or so showing the hearse. My TV put up a massage saying it was about to switch off. Never seen that before. On 19/09/2022 17:19, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote: > After watching today's events almost non-stop from about 10:30 this > morning, I have to say I was most impressed: what an excellent job was > done by all. The sound department (anyone know who was involved?) did a > terrific job covering the mile-and-a-quarter long procession to Hyde > Park. Matching music all the way, even though the director kept jumping > from end to end of the procession. Did I see 4 separate marching bands? > A great success! > > John Nottage > From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Sep 20 06:46:38 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 12:46:38 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Doctor Who 1964 In-Reply-To: <000f01d8cc24$73147880$593d6980$@bignell.net> References: <000f01d8cc24$73147880$593d6980$@bignell.net> Message-ID: <68355c41-75d1-b248-f23c-b6fddb0c5184@amps.net> This is a query from Richard Bignell, who puts together the DVD issues of Dr.Who. Most of the early episodes came from LG 'D'. Some from TVC. I remember that in the 60's the Sound Control was the right hand window in the photo, 36-44 markings. There was door to the outside catwalk, which was a quick way to the canteen at tea break, or a way to sneak in if a bit late back. The Production gallery was therefore beyond the Sound Control, then a staircase to the ground floor. Anyone got an idea? Hibou, you are probably the best guy to comment. Cheers Pat H I wonder if you?d be able to confirm something as we?re trying to work out the orientation of how things were laid out up in the gallery at that time. The photo below is the Studio D gallery from 1954, when I understand the sound section would have been on the left hand side of the image around the 26-34 foot markers are situated, but I believe that things swapped round at some point and sound got moved over to the opposite side. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 58734 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Tue Sep 20 07:25:42 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:25:42 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Congratulations to all. In-Reply-To: <84a3502e-c017-e023-3ecc-01c089767658@amps.net> References: <091edcf4-6357-0021-abf7-e33cf9c249fa@amps.net> <84a3502e-c017-e023-3ecc-01c089767658@amps.net> Message-ID: I wouldn't be surprised to find that I'm the only one on this list who looks at TikTok. Scrolling through yesterday I was amazed to find TV stations around the world streaming the funeral on the system. They included Chinese national TV, and Mexico, Malaysia, Philippines, Korea, and India. B On Tue, 20 Sep 2022, 12:30 Pat Heigham via Tech1, wrote: > There was speculation, that it might be on the anniversary of E II R's > coronation - June 2nd 2023. > > I wondered if some cable routing might be left in place, but there is a > risk of theft. Wasn't there a posting about OB cables being nicked, > believing them to be copper, > but they were fibre optic! > > What's the latest technology - are vision, sound and talkback routed > down the same cable - multiplexed in some way? > > Best > > Pat H > > On 20/09/2022 10:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > > Any bets for when the Coronation might be? I?m pretty confident that > > the BBC will be trying to make sure it doesn?t coincide with Wimbledon > > or any of the massive OB events each year. > > > > Alan > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jan.goldring at me.com Tue Sep 20 11:38:02 2022 From: jan.goldring at me.com (Janis Goldring) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 17:38:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Coverage of funeral Message-ID: Does anyone ( Nigel Saunders??) know who was directing and vision mixing the coverage of Her Majesty?s funeral?? Sent from my iPhone From hughsnape at talktalk.net Tue Sep 20 11:46:08 2022 From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 17:46:08 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Coverage of funeral In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0B009CB2-A008-41EF-A138-3FEFF173596A@talktalk.net> If you would care to join the ?I Take Pictures of TV Studios? Facebook group there is a great deal of description and discussion of the television of the event by many of the technical staff who worked on it. https://www.facebook.com/groups/411248849080553 Hugh > On 20 Sep 2022, at 17:38, Janis Goldring via Tech1 wrote: > > > Does anyone ( Nigel Saunders??) know who was directing and vision mixing the coverage of Her Majesty?s funeral?? > Sent from my iPhone > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Sep 21 08:31:05 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 14:31:05 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] A Christmas Story BBC Training! Message-ID: <3c68b425-1836-53fb-16d5-a5462a346c97@amps.net> Some years ago, I took an elderly neighbour, in her wheelchair to the local shopping mall. She wanted to buy Christmas cards, so I wheeled her up to the display. She said; " You're the first person that's done that" "what?" "Put me where I could see" Carers stopped where _they_ were in line. I had automatically aligned her chair as if it had been a ped camera! BBC training - yeh! Pat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Wed Sep 21 15:48:43 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 22:48:43 +0200 Subject: [Tech1] Arena video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Was the camera being used just for feeding the video screens, or was it a proper OB, recording it for broadcast? If it was just a feed to the screens, I would guess that the camera operator did the same show every time and was familiar with the task and could probably do it seated. It?s also possible that such a cameraman might be - how shall I put it? - not particularly professional compared to people from a broadcast background. Alan > On 20 Sep 2022, at 19:55, Alec Bray wrote: > > ? > Hi all, > > On 19/09/2022 08:43, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> As is so often the case these days, it?s a big lens with a little camera bolted onto the back of it. > Alan was right on the button.... here's photos of the derig.... > > > > > > > > > > The viewfinder was a separate item and was the first bit of the rig to be removed. > > > > The arena staff were extremely helpful in dealing with Jane's Mobility Scooter, but unfortunately left me little time to investigate and snap the sound desk. > > Best regards, > > > > Alec > > -- > ======= > > Alec Bray > > alec.bray.2 at gmail.com > Mob: 07789 561 346 > Tel: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SvRHHxaU4s3345Lh.png Type: image/png Size: 392803 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fRcrk5bXdZZU0PDW.png Type: image/png Size: 443725 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Sep 21 17:14:13 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 23:14:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Nothing in particular Message-ID: <0d709454-ed2f-e118-1a8a-cfe2f66ce66b@amps.net> Hello all! A little story referenced to nothing. Listening to a CD of Xavier Cugat, being a fan of Latin American music, one track was "Green Eyes" This reminded me of going to hospital to have a wisdom tooth extraction. (Ouch!) Prior to the op, they took a 180 degree X-Ray. The radiographer had the most gorgeous green eyes that I had never seen before. I should have invited her to dinner so I could gaze at these eyes for ages! Pat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com Wed Sep 21 17:24:34 2022 From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2022 23:24:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Nothing in particular In-Reply-To: <0d709454-ed2f-e118-1a8a-cfe2f66ce66b@amps.net> References: <0d709454-ed2f-e118-1a8a-cfe2f66ce66b@amps.net> Message-ID: She would have seen right through you! Barry. On 21 Sep 2022, at 23:14, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > Hello all! > > A little story referenced to nothing. > > Listening to a CD of Xavier Cugat, being a fan of Latin American music, one track was > "Green Eyes" > > This reminded me of going to hospital to have a wisdom tooth extraction. (Ouch!) > > Prior to the op, they took a 180 degree X-Ray. The radiographer had the most > gorgeous green eyes that I had never seen before. > > I should have invited her to dinner so I could gaze at these eyes for ages! > > Pat > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Thu Sep 22 03:21:23 2022 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 09:21:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Arena video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6b64f096-11ac-9694-30ed-aff00410b2a7@gmail.com> Hi, On 21/09/2022 21:48, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > Was the camera being used just for feeding the video screens, or was > it a proper OB, recording it for broadcast? My gut feeling is that the show was being recorded for later streaming (or perhaps a DVD of the World Tour).? Three reasons: there were more cameras than I would expect (naive me!) for an Arena video, there were cross fades between shots at some points, and as each new artist appeared, a caption was superimposed. Andrea Bocelli has a large collection of concerts uploaded on YouTube, some from earlier this year (and quite recent), and it seems likely that each concert is recorded and then uploaded to YouTube.? Each concert looks to have the same staging, the same sort of shots etc (and similar content).? These have been prepared by a fully professional production team.? Andrea's sound/mixing crew had jackets embroidered with "Andrea Bocelli" across the back in cursive script. There were cameras (on tripods) each side of the stage:? thank you to the Liverpudlians who broke "regulations" and recorded the whole thing (Portrait mode, of course!! ) on their phone then uploaded to YouTube, so you can see them.? The one on our left (stage right)? is just about visible here, the one on our right is very much obscured but you might just see a head: difficult to make out, I know).? This shot also shows what the central camera was seeing - an MCU of AB. There was another camera at the rear showing the front view of the conductor, and there seemed to be a higher angle shot from the three-quarter rear position.? I would not have expected either of these shots for a strait arena presentation.? (BTW went to Russell Watson event at Englefield Park recently? and the Arena video was a very simple affair). I did not get the feeling that it was being recorded for TV broadcast - I'd have thought there would have been more introductory stuff, but it's all post-production nowadays!. I was VERY surprised that Andrea Bocelli sung "You'll Never Walk Alone" to an Arean full of people from Liverpool:? the city is rigorously divided into those who sing THAT song and those who sing "Johnny Todd" (aka the "Z-Cars Theme").? At least the Blues kept quiet, whilst the Reds were waving their arms in the air as if they were at Anfield. Andrea had repeated standing ovations, the whole arena was on their feet.? Some said it was because of not being able to go to concerts for three years or so that people were so glad to be at an event that they simply went for it. Best regards, Alec -- ======= Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Mob: 07789 561 346 Tel: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: xFHz10iWmLs4yLBr.png Type: image/png Size: 189771 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: M4IDCiyHhXdPafsQ.png Type: image/png Size: 248242 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: xuripK9iVUhqwRa7.png Type: image/png Size: 150248 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nick at nickway.co.uk Thu Sep 22 08:50:35 2022 From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2022 14:50:35 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tech1] Arena video In-Reply-To: <6b64f096-11ac-9694-30ed-aff00410b2a7@gmail.com> References: <6b64f096-11ac-9694-30ed-aff00410b2a7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1412459083.167291.1663854635686@email.ionos.co.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: xFHz10iWmLs4yLBr.png Type: image/png Size: 189771 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: M4IDCiyHhXdPafsQ.png Type: image/png Size: 248242 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: xuripK9iVUhqwRa7.png Type: image/png Size: 150248 bytes Desc: not available URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Fri Sep 23 17:42:34 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2022 23:42:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Newsnight recording. Message-ID: <494161a4-4725-7960-5071-ad7401e86dd5@gmail.com> I record NewsNight and watch it at about 11pm. And every day this week the recording has stopped before the prog finishes. Is there a reason why the flag has suddenly been wrong every day? From pat.heigham at amps.net Sat Sep 24 00:24:03 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2022 06:24:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Newsnight recording. In-Reply-To: <494161a4-4725-7960-5071-ad7401e86dd5@gmail.com> References: <494161a4-4725-7960-5071-ad7401e86dd5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <68935af9-631e-5cef-c5a6-8fb231c97878@amps.net> Without knowing what your recording set-up is, cannot offer a solution, except maybe to check that the clock on your system is correct - though usually the time is taken from the broadcast signal and automatically updates, I believe. I have a stand-alone DVD machine, and if capturing a programme, tend to manually set the timer to begin two minutes before and end two minutes after the advertised time. I don't often need to set the recorder for a repeat series, but you might try a manual setting to see if that solves the problem. One thing to watch is if the transmission bridges midnight, therefore the end time is the next day! But that is not the case with Newsnight. Maybe watch 'live' one night to see if the programme overruns? Pat On 23/09/2022 23:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > I record NewsNight and watch it at about 11pm. And every day this week > the recording has stopped before the prog finishes. Is there a reason > why the flag has suddenly been wrong every day? > From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Sat Sep 24 06:16:54 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2022 12:16:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Newsnight recording. In-Reply-To: <68935af9-631e-5cef-c5a6-8fb231c97878@amps.net> References: <494161a4-4725-7960-5071-ad7401e86dd5@gmail.com> <68935af9-631e-5cef-c5a6-8fb231c97878@amps.net> Message-ID: <99f753b6-3ef3-e941-8d9e-5b5305e11fe5@gmail.com> It's a PVR supplied by BT as part of their TV package. Made by Humax, but different software. Doesn't give you the option to extend the recording times - I assume it just takes them off the EPG. And normally cuts off just into the weather forecast after NewsNight. Just odd that it's happened every day this week. Perhaps those who worked so hard updating the EPG during the time after the Queen died have been given time off? On 24/09/2022 06:24, Pat Heigham wrote: > Without knowing what your recording set-up is, cannot offer a solution, > except maybe to check that the clock on your system is correct - though > usually the time is taken from the broadcast signal > and automatically updates, I believe. > I have a stand-alone DVD machine, and if capturing a programme, tend to > manually set the timer to begin two minutes before and end two minutes > after the advertised time. > I don't often need to set the recorder for a repeat series, but you > might try a manual setting to see if that solves the problem. > One thing to watch is if the transmission bridges midnight, therefore > the end time is the next day! But that is not the case with Newsnight. > > Maybe watch 'live' one night to see if the programme overruns? > > Pat > > On 23/09/2022 23:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> I record NewsNight and watch it at about 11pm. And every day this week >> the recording has stopped before the prog finishes. Is there a reason >> why the flag has suddenly been wrong every day? >> From gary_critcher at yahoo.com Sat Sep 24 08:40:47 2022 From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2022 13:40:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] Til Death pic spotted on Twitter. References: <2028988190.200449.1664026847488.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2028988190.200449.1664026847488@mail.yahoo.com> ? Rehearsal? ? Best regards,Gary? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot_20220924-155300_Samsung Internet.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 554550 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jan.goldring at yahoo.co.uk Mon Sep 26 10:13:31 2022 From: jan.goldring at yahoo.co.uk (Janis Goldring) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2022 17:13:31 +0200 Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?q?For_Ron_Peverall=E2=80=99s_boys_on_Crew_8?= References: Message-ID: Who would have thought that 50 years on from the remake of Sykes in colour that we we both worked on in ?72 and here we are in Copenhagen watching it on YouTube. Our Golden Wedding is this Friday!!! Peter and Janis Goldring -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0377.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 114577 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From bernie833 at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 04:56:53 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 10:56:53 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Dart Message-ID: Type "Nasa's Dart"? into Chrome. An effect I've never seen before. B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Tue Sep 27 04:59:51 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2022 10:59:51 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Dart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hope it has a slightly bigger effect than that, in practice! Chris W On 27/09/2022 10:56, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > Type "Nasa's Dart"? into Chrome. An effect I've never seen before. > > B > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Sep 28 05:46:27 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2022 11:46:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Newsnight recording. In-Reply-To: <99f753b6-3ef3-e941-8d9e-5b5305e11fe5@gmail.com> References: <494161a4-4725-7960-5071-ad7401e86dd5@gmail.com> <68935af9-631e-5cef-c5a6-8fb231c97878@amps.net> <99f753b6-3ef3-e941-8d9e-5b5305e11fe5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <02559285-41a5-ead0-f18f-07e6d148870c@amps.net> While I'm not particulary au fait with the Humax, a friend had one and I believe it was possible to ask it to record, directly from the EPG. So if the flags were inaccurate.... Can the Humax be manually set to record? Thus choosing the start and cut-off times. Pat On 24/09/2022 12:16, Dave Plowman wrote: > It's a PVR supplied by BT as part of their TV package. Made by Humax, > but different software. Doesn't give you the option to extend the > recording times - I assume it just takes them off the EPG. And > normally cuts off just into the weather forecast after NewsNight. Just > odd that it's happened every day this week. Perhaps those who worked > so hard updating the EPG during the time after the Queen died have > been given time off? > > On 24/09/2022 06:24, Pat Heigham wrote: >> Without knowing what your recording set-up is, cannot offer a >> solution, except maybe to check that the clock on your system is >> correct - though usually the time is taken from the broadcast signal >> and automatically updates, I believe. >> I have a stand-alone DVD machine, and if capturing a programme, tend >> to manually set the timer to begin two minutes before and end two >> minutes after the advertised time. >> I don't often need to set the recorder for a repeat series, but you >> might try a manual setting to see if that solves the problem. >> One thing to watch is if the transmission bridges midnight, therefore >> the end time is the next day! But that is not the case with Newsnight. >> >> Maybe watch 'live' one night to see if the programme overruns? >> >> Pat >> >> On 23/09/2022 23:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>> I record NewsNight and watch it at about 11pm. And every day this >>> week the recording has stopped before the prog finishes. Is there a >>> reason why the flag has suddenly been wrong every day? >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Wed Sep 28 07:43:54 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2022 12:43:54 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Newsnight recording. In-Reply-To: <02559285-41a5-ead0-f18f-07e6d148870c@amps.net> References: <02559285-41a5-ead0-f18f-07e6d148870c@amps.net> Message-ID: Our Humax went to the dump a couple of years ago, partly because we hadn?t recorded anything on it for at least five years before that, and partly because everything else that it could do, and more, is built into the new TV. For us, iPlayer does what we want. We rarely bother with TV if it isn?t on any BBC channels or Dave! Not that the BBC make any of the above easy, given most of the trivia they offer these days. OK, I?m being grumpy (no ulcers here, Dave!), but I?m at an age where I?ve earned the right to be grumpy, especially with all that?s going on around us. Hey, Starmer spoke a lot of sense yesterday. Never thought I?d say that. (Not a political statement by the way, just a mention of how flawless his delivery was ?). Cheers, N. Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad On 28 Sep 2022, at 11:47, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: ? While I'm not particulary au fait with the Humax, a friend had one and I believe it was possible to ask it to record, directly from the EPG. So if the flags were inaccurate.... Can the Humax be manually set to record? Thus choosing the start and cut-off times. Pat On 24/09/2022 12:16, Dave Plowman wrote: It's a PVR supplied by BT as part of their TV package. Made by Humax, but different software. Doesn't give you the option to extend the recording times - I assume it just takes them off the EPG. And normally cuts off just into the weather forecast after NewsNight. Just odd that it's happened every day this week. Perhaps those who worked so hard updating the EPG during the time after the Queen died have been given time off? On 24/09/2022 06:24, Pat Heigham wrote: Without knowing what your recording set-up is, cannot offer a solution, except maybe to check that the clock on your system is correct - though usually the time is taken from the broadcast signal and automatically updates, I believe. I have a stand-alone DVD machine, and if capturing a programme, tend to manually set the timer to begin two minutes before and end two minutes after the advertised time. I don't often need to set the recorder for a repeat series, but you might try a manual setting to see if that solves the problem. One thing to watch is if the transmission bridges midnight, therefore the end time is the next day! But that is not the case with Newsnight. Maybe watch 'live' one night to see if the programme overruns? Pat On 23/09/2022 23:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: I record NewsNight and watch it at about 11pm. And every day this week the recording has stopped before the prog finishes. Is there a reason why the flag has suddenly been wrong every day? -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Wed Sep 28 08:22:08 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2022 14:22:08 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Newsnight recording. In-Reply-To: References: <02559285-41a5-ead0-f18f-07e6d148870c@amps.net> Message-ID: <75ccf582-c76f-7147-6fe5-a862a24690ee@davesound.co.uk> Perhaps you didn't note, but this machine is the BT version, which gives access to BT TV stuff. Its software is very different from the standard Humax. The other thing is I can view this machine on other TVs in the house. If I record something on a TV, I can't. I generally start watching NewsNight about 11pm. And as with many live programmes, watch from the start or catchup may or may not be available when I want it. And up until the last week or so, the machine recorded the entire NewsNight every time? - or except for a rare occasion when it overran? at short notice. BTW, not the best idea to tale a working PVR 'to the dump'. When plenty would be very happy to have one. On 28/09/2022 13:43, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > Our Humax went to the dump a couple of years ago, partly because we > hadn?t recorded anything on it for at least five years before that, > and partly because everything else that it could do, and more, is > built into the new TV. For us, iPlayer does what we want. We rarely > bother with TV if it isn?t on any BBC channels or Dave! Not that the > BBC make any of the above easy, given most of the trivia they offer > these days. > OK, I?m being grumpy (no ulcers here, Dave!), but I?m at an age where > I?ve earned the right to be grumpy, especially with all that?s going > on around us. > Hey, Starmer spoke a lot of sense yesterday. Never thought I?d say > that. (Not a political statement by the way, just a mention of how > flawless his delivery was ?). > Cheers, > N. > Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad > >> On 28 Sep 2022, at 11:47, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? >> >> While I'm not particulary au fait with the Humax, a friend had one >> and I believe it was possible to ask it to record, directly from the EPG. >> >> So if the flags were inaccurate.... >> >> Can the Humax be manually set to record? >> >> Thus choosing the start and cut-off times. >> >> Pat >> >> >> On 24/09/2022 12:16, Dave Plowman wrote: >>> It's a PVR supplied by BT as part of their TV package. Made by >>> Humax, but different software. Doesn't give you the option to extend >>> the recording times - I assume it just takes them off the EPG. And >>> normally cuts off just into the weather forecast after NewsNight. >>> Just odd that it's happened every day this week. Perhaps those who >>> worked so hard updating the EPG during the time after the Queen died >>> have been given time off? >>> >>> On 24/09/2022 06:24, Pat Heigham wrote: >>>> Without knowing what your recording set-up is, cannot offer a >>>> solution, except maybe to check that the clock on your system is >>>> correct - though usually the time is taken from the broadcast signal >>>> and automatically updates, I believe. >>>> I have a stand-alone DVD machine, and if capturing a programme, >>>> tend to manually set the timer to begin two minutes before and end >>>> two minutes after the advertised time. >>>> I don't often need to set the recorder for a repeat series, but you >>>> might try a manual setting to see if that solves the problem. >>>> One thing to watch is if the transmission bridges midnight, >>>> therefore the end time is the next day! But that is not the case >>>> with Newsnight. >>>> >>>> Maybe watch 'live' one night to see if the programme overruns? >>>> >>>> Pat >>>> >>>> On 23/09/2022 23:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> I record NewsNight and watch it at about 11pm. And every day this >>>>> week the recording has stopped before the prog finishes. Is there >>>>> a reason why the flag has suddenly been wrong every day? >>>>> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- Dave P London SW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Wed Sep 28 09:10:18 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2022 14:10:18 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Newsnight recording. In-Reply-To: <75ccf582-c76f-7147-6fe5-a862a24690ee@davesound.co.uk> References: <02559285-41a5-ead0-f18f-07e6d148870c@amps.net> <75ccf582-c76f-7147-6fe5-a862a24690ee@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: Our Humax developed a hard drive malfunction (mechanical juddering noises within), which appeared to have been caused by an over-Voltage fault in the PSU area of the main pcb. The HDD contained all the firmware and software, which as far as I could tell was in a ?hidden? Linux partition. I did fix the power supply fault and then tried to clone a 2.5? SSD from the HDD (which I had managed to dismantle and free the head-arm from its park backstop). All to no avail, so it went in the electrical goods recycling bin at the local dump. Pity, but that?s how it was. I don?t give in easily with such things! Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad On 28 Sep 2022, at 14:22, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: ? Perhaps you didn't note, but this machine is the BT version, which gives access to BT TV stuff. Its software is very different from the standard Humax. The other thing is I can view this machine on other TVs in the house. If I record something on a TV, I can't. I generally start watching NewsNight about 11pm. And as with many live programmes, watch from the start or catchup may or may not be available when I want it. And up until the last week or so, the machine recorded the entire NewsNight every time - or except for a rare occasion when it overran at short notice. BTW, not the best idea to tale a working PVR 'to the dump'. When plenty would be very happy to have one. On 28/09/2022 13:43, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: Our Humax went to the dump a couple of years ago, partly because we hadn?t recorded anything on it for at least five years before that, and partly because everything else that it could do, and more, is built into the new TV. For us, iPlayer does what we want. We rarely bother with TV if it isn?t on any BBC channels or Dave! Not that the BBC make any of the above easy, given most of the trivia they offer these days. OK, I?m being grumpy (no ulcers here, Dave!), but I?m at an age where I?ve earned the right to be grumpy, especially with all that?s going on around us. Hey, Starmer spoke a lot of sense yesterday. Never thought I?d say that. (Not a political statement by the way, just a mention of how flawless his delivery was ?). Cheers, N. Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad On 28 Sep 2022, at 11:47, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: ? While I'm not particulary au fait with the Humax, a friend had one and I believe it was possible to ask it to record, directly from the EPG. So if the flags were inaccurate.... Can the Humax be manually set to record? Thus choosing the start and cut-off times. Pat On 24/09/2022 12:16, Dave Plowman wrote: It's a PVR supplied by BT as part of their TV package. Made by Humax, but different software. Doesn't give you the option to extend the recording times - I assume it just takes them off the EPG. And normally cuts off just into the weather forecast after NewsNight. Just odd that it's happened every day this week. Perhaps those who worked so hard updating the EPG during the time after the Queen died have been given time off? On 24/09/2022 06:24, Pat Heigham wrote: Without knowing what your recording set-up is, cannot offer a solution, except maybe to check that the clock on your system is correct - though usually the time is taken from the broadcast signal and automatically updates, I believe. I have a stand-alone DVD machine, and if capturing a programme, tend to manually set the timer to begin two minutes before and end two minutes after the advertised time. I don't often need to set the recorder for a repeat series, but you might try a manual setting to see if that solves the problem. One thing to watch is if the transmission bridges midnight, therefore the end time is the next day! But that is not the case with Newsnight. Maybe watch 'live' one night to see if the programme overruns? Pat On 23/09/2022 23:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: I record NewsNight and watch it at about 11pm. And every day this week the recording has stopped before the prog finishes. Is there a reason why the flag has suddenly been wrong every day? -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Dave P London SW -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Wed Sep 28 12:52:10 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2022 18:52:10 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Newsnight recording. In-Reply-To: References: <02559285-41a5-ead0-f18f-07e6d148870c@amps.net> <75ccf582-c76f-7147-6fe5-a862a24690ee@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: <4a83a5a2-4377-0607-ee38-b36a9bdfabe6@gmail.com> Ah - fairy nuff. You gave the impression you dumped it because it wasn't used. I have a second Humax which also gets used. Much easier than trying to find the things I want to watch later than going online to do so. That Humax allows you to set a buffer for the start and end of a prog recorded via the EPG. But the GUI isn't as nice as the BT version. On 28/09/2022 15:10, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > Our Humax developed a hard drive malfunction (mechanical juddering > noises within), which appeared to have been caused by an over-Voltage > fault in the PSU area of the main pcb. The HDD contained all the > firmware and software, which as far as I could tell was in a ?hidden? > Linux partition. I did fix the power supply fault and then tried to > clone a 2.5? SSD from the HDD (which I had managed to dismantle and free > the head-arm from its park backstop). All to no avail, so it went in the > electrical goods recycling bin at the local dump. Pity, but that?s how > it was. I don?t give in easily with such things! > Cheers, > Nick. > > Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad > >> On 28 Sep 2022, at 14:22, Dave Plowman via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? >> >> Perhaps you didn't note, but this machine is the BT version, which >> gives access to BT TV stuff. Its software is very different from the >> standard Humax. >> >> The other thing is I can view this machine on other TVs in the house. >> If I record something on a TV, I can't. >> >> I generally start watching NewsNight about 11pm. And as with many live >> programmes, watch from the start or catchup may or may not be >> available when I want it. And up until the last week or so, the >> machine recorded the entire NewsNight every time? - or except for a >> rare occasion when it overran? at short notice. >> >> BTW, not the best idea to tale a working PVR 'to the dump'. When >> plenty would be very happy to have one. >> >> On 28/09/2022 13:43, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >>> Our Humax went to the dump a couple of years ago, partly because we >>> hadn?t recorded anything on it for at least five years before that, >>> and partly because everything else that it could do, and more, is >>> built into the new TV. For us, iPlayer does what we want. We rarely >>> bother with TV if it isn?t on any BBC channels or Dave! Not that the >>> BBC make any of the above easy, given most of the trivia they offer >>> these days. >>> OK, I?m being grumpy (no ulcers here, Dave!), but I?m at an age where >>> I?ve earned the right to be grumpy, especially with all that?s going >>> on around us. >>> Hey, Starmer spoke a lot of sense yesterday. Never thought I?d say >>> that. (Not a political statement by the way, just a mention of how >>> flawless his delivery was ?). >>> Cheers, >>> N. >>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On 28 Sep 2022, at 11:47, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> While I'm not particulary au fait with the Humax, a friend had one >>>> and I believe it was possible to ask it to record, directly from the >>>> EPG. >>>> >>>> So if the flags were inaccurate.... >>>> >>>> Can the Humax be manually set to record? >>>> >>>> Thus choosing the start and cut-off times. >>>> >>>> Pat >>>> >>>> >>>> On 24/09/2022 12:16, Dave Plowman wrote: >>>>> It's a PVR supplied by BT as part of their TV package. Made by >>>>> Humax, but different software. Doesn't give you the option to >>>>> extend the recording times - I assume it just takes them off the >>>>> EPG. And normally cuts off just into the weather forecast after >>>>> NewsNight. Just odd that it's happened every day this week. Perhaps >>>>> those who worked so hard updating the EPG during the time after the >>>>> Queen died have been given time off? >>>>> >>>>> On 24/09/2022 06:24, Pat Heigham wrote: >>>>>> Without knowing what your recording set-up is, cannot offer a >>>>>> solution, except maybe to check that the clock on your system is >>>>>> correct - though usually the time is taken from the broadcast signal >>>>>> and automatically updates, I believe. >>>>>> I have a stand-alone DVD machine, and if capturing a programme, >>>>>> tend to manually set the timer to begin two minutes before and end >>>>>> two minutes after the advertised time. >>>>>> I don't often need to set the recorder for a repeat series, but >>>>>> you might try a manual setting to see if that solves the problem. >>>>>> One thing to watch is if the transmission bridges midnight, >>>>>> therefore the end time is the next day! But that is not the case >>>>>> with Newsnight. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe watch 'live' one night to see if the programme overruns? >>>>>> >>>>>> Pat >>>>>> >>>>>> On 23/09/2022 23:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>>> I record NewsNight and watch it at about 11pm. And every day this >>>>>>> week the recording has stopped before the prog finishes. Is there >>>>>>> a reason why the flag has suddenly been wrong every day? >>>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >> -- >> Dave P London >> SW >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > From peter.neill at icloud.com Thu Sep 29 05:34:33 2022 From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:34:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Newsnight recording. In-Reply-To: <99f753b6-3ef3-e941-8d9e-5b5305e11fe5@gmail.com> References: <494161a4-4725-7960-5071-ad7401e86dd5@gmail.com> <68935af9-631e-5cef-c5a6-8fb231c97878@amps.net> <99f753b6-3ef3-e941-8d9e-5b5305e11fe5@gmail.com> Message-ID: Probably completely unrelated but there was a change in Freeview EPG on 21st September - New Channels, change of number etc. Perhaps this caused a glitch in BT?s set-up? Peter Neill 6 Bells Meadow Guilden Morden Royston SG8 0JB 01763 852942 07710 057250 > On 24 Sep 2022, at 12:16, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > It's a PVR supplied by BT as part of their TV package. Made by Humax, but different software. Doesn't give you the option to extend the recording times - I assume it just takes them off the EPG. And normally cuts off just into the weather forecast after NewsNight. Just odd that it's happened every day this week. Perhaps those who worked so hard updating the EPG during the time after the Queen died have been given time off? > > On 24/09/2022 06:24, Pat Heigham wrote: >> Without knowing what your recording set-up is, cannot offer a solution, except maybe to check that the clock on your system is correct - though usually the time is taken from the broadcast signal >> and automatically updates, I believe. >> I have a stand-alone DVD machine, and if capturing a programme, tend to manually set the timer to begin two minutes before and end two minutes after the advertised time. >> I don't often need to set the recorder for a repeat series, but you might try a manual setting to see if that solves the problem. >> One thing to watch is if the transmission bridges midnight, therefore the end time is the next day! But that is not the case with Newsnight. >> Maybe watch 'live' one night to see if the programme overruns? >> Pat >> On 23/09/2022 23:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>> I record NewsNight and watch it at about 11pm. And every day this week the recording has stopped before the prog finishes. Is there a reason why the flag has suddenly been wrong every day? >>> > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Sep 29 07:35:36 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 13:35:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Newsnight recording. In-Reply-To: References: <494161a4-4725-7960-5071-ad7401e86dd5@gmail.com> <68935af9-631e-5cef-c5a6-8fb231c97878@amps.net> <99f753b6-3ef3-e941-8d9e-5b5305e11fe5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8dd18707-a908-f0e9-fedc-98736af8a2bc@amps.net> Wouldn't it be nice, if convenient, for the +1 channels to be next door to the main entries of those channels, instead of having to scroll down the list? No doubt there is some complex reason why this couldn't be organised! OK, so the BBC doesn't do +1 so one has to rummage through iPlayer (and you need to sign in). Perhaps there is a way to sort the EPG order? Pat H On 29/09/2022 11:34, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote: > Probably completely unrelated but there was a change in Freeview EPG > on 21st September - New Channels, change of number etc. Perhaps this > caused a glitch in BT?s set-up? > > > > Peter Neill > 6 Bells Meadow > Guilden Morden > Royston > SG8 0JB > > 01763 852942 > 07710 057250 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.neill at icloud.com Thu Sep 29 07:41:55 2022 From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 13:41:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Newsnight recording. In-Reply-To: <8dd18707-a908-f0e9-fedc-98736af8a2bc@amps.net> References: <494161a4-4725-7960-5071-ad7401e86dd5@gmail.com> <68935af9-631e-5cef-c5a6-8fb231c97878@amps.net> <99f753b6-3ef3-e941-8d9e-5b5305e11fe5@gmail.com> <8dd18707-a908-f0e9-fedc-98736af8a2bc@amps.net> Message-ID: <63E1F295-5949-4C75-A47E-AE681B01D7F7@icloud.com> My previous Humax box had a great online community following which included unofficial custom software. One of the many features was the ability to renumber channels. This meant I was able to make BBC1 HD channel 1 rather than 101 etc. ITV +1 was 31, BBC News Channel went into the unused (in my region) 8 slot. And so on. It?s the feature I miss most on my new(ish) box. If the nerds could do it, why can?t the manufacturers?? Peter Neill 6 Bells Meadow Guilden Morden Royston SG8 0JB 01763 852942 07710 057250 > On 29 Sep 2022, at 13:35, Pat Heigham wrote: > > Wouldn't it be nice, if convenient, for the +1 channels to be next door to the main entries of those channels, instead of having to scroll down the list? > No doubt there is some complex reason why this couldn't be organised! > OK, so the BBC doesn't do +1 so one has to rummage through iPlayer (and you need to sign in). > > Perhaps there is a way to sort the EPG order? > > Pat H > On 29/09/2022 11:34, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote: >> Probably completely unrelated but there was a change in Freeview EPG on 21st September - New Channels, change of number etc. Perhaps this caused a glitch in BT?s set-up? >> >> >> >> Peter Neill >> 6 Bells Meadow >> Guilden Morden >> Royston >> SG8 0JB >> >> 01763 852942 >> 07710 057250 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 08:01:49 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 14:01:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Newsnight recording. In-Reply-To: References: <494161a4-4725-7960-5071-ad7401e86dd5@gmail.com> <68935af9-631e-5cef-c5a6-8fb231c97878@amps.net> <99f753b6-3ef3-e941-8d9e-5b5305e11fe5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8af18346-9d93-381f-c749-75716ad1d2ef@gmail.com> Most of my devices prompt me when a retune is needed - but could have missed this one. I'll give it a try. On 29/09/2022 11:34, Peter Neill wrote: > Probably completely unrelated but there was a change in Freeview EPG on > 21st September - New Channels, change of number etc. Perhaps this caused > a glitch in BT?s set-up? > > > > Peter Neill > 6 Bells Meadow > Guilden Morden > Royston > SG8 0JB > > 01763 852942 > 07710 057250 > > > > > >> On 24 Sep 2022, at 12:16, Dave Plowman via Tech1 > > wrote: >> >> It's a PVR supplied by BT as part of their TV package. Made by Humax, >> but different software. Doesn't give you the option to extend the >> recording times - I assume it just takes them off the EPG. And >> normally cuts off just into the weather forecast after NewsNight. Just >> odd that it's happened every day this week. Perhaps those who worked >> so hard updating the EPG during the time after the Queen died have >> been given time off? >> >> On 24/09/2022 06:24, Pat Heigham wrote: >>> Without knowing what your recording set-up is, cannot offer a >>> solution, except maybe to check that the clock on your system is >>> correct - though usually the time is taken from the broadcast signal >>> and automatically updates, I believe. >>> I have a stand-alone DVD machine, and if capturing a programme, tend >>> to manually set the timer to begin two minutes before and end two >>> minutes after the advertised time. >>> I don't often need to set the recorder for a repeat series, but you >>> might try a manual setting to see if that solves the problem. >>> One thing to watch is if the transmission bridges midnight, therefore >>> the end time is the next day! But that is not the case with Newsnight. >>> Maybe watch 'live' one night to see if the programme overruns? >>> Pat >>> On 23/09/2022 23:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>> I record NewsNight and watch it at about 11pm. And every day this >>>> week the recording has stopped before the prog finishes. Is there a >>>> reason why the flag has suddenly been wrong every day? >>>> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > From plowmandave44 at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 08:07:13 2022 From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 14:07:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Newsnight recording. In-Reply-To: <63E1F295-5949-4C75-A47E-AE681B01D7F7@icloud.com> References: <494161a4-4725-7960-5071-ad7401e86dd5@gmail.com> <68935af9-631e-5cef-c5a6-8fb231c97878@amps.net> <99f753b6-3ef3-e941-8d9e-5b5305e11fe5@gmail.com> <8dd18707-a908-f0e9-fedc-98736af8a2bc@amps.net> <63E1F295-5949-4C75-A47E-AE681B01D7F7@icloud.com> Message-ID: Didn't know that. Remember it with Topfield, though. But this BT version has its own software, quite different from the normal Humax, and IMHO, nicer to use. The other odd thing is it doesn't do Wi-Fi - cable broadband only. Luckily already had an outlet installed behind the TV. On 29/09/2022 13:41, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote: > My previous Humax box had a great online community following which > included unofficial custom software. > One of the many features was the ability to renumber channels. > This meant I was able to make BBC1 HD channel 1 rather than 101 etc. > ITV +1 was 31, BBC News Channel went into the unused (in my region) 8 slot. > And so on. > > It?s the feature I miss most on my new(ish) box. > If the nerds could do it, why can?t the manufacturers?? > > > > Peter Neill > 6 Bells Meadow > Guilden Morden > Royston > SG8 0JB > > 01763 852942 > 07710 057250 > > > > > >> On 29 Sep 2022, at 13:35, Pat Heigham > > wrote: >> >> Wouldn't it be nice, if convenient, for the +1 channels to be next >> door to the main entries of those channels, instead of having to >> scroll down the list? >> No doubt there is some complex reason why this couldn't be organised! >> OK, so the BBC doesn't do +1 so one has to rummage through iPlayer >> (and you need to sign in). >> >> Perhaps there is a way to sort the EPG order? >> >> Pat H >> >> On 29/09/2022 11:34, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote: >>> Probably completely unrelated but there was a change in Freeview EPG >>> on 21st September - New Channels, change of number etc. Perhaps this >>> caused a glitch in BT?s set-up? >>> >>> >>> >>> Peter Neill >>> 6 Bells Meadow >>> Guilden Morden >>> Royston >>> SG8 0JB >>> >>> 01763 852942 >>> 07710 057250 > >