From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Oct  3 07:08:01 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 13:08:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
Message-ID: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>

OK, people,

What can we go for today as Moan of the Day!

How about adverisements that entice one to buy something at just XX.99?

Don't the poor folks notice that it's not ?24.99, but ?25?
They just see the pounds figure, which is a subliminal marketing ploy.

Filled up with Unleaded this morning at the cheapest (in my area).
That was ?153.9 / litre, but really ?154.
Have we not come out of Europe? Lets' go back to gallons/feet/yards.

At least the speed limits are still in mph!

I'm sad that Robin Day is no longer a worthy opponent of politicians
on TV. He would have had something to say to our new Chancellor.
(Kwamikazi?).

Saw a prog the other night - "When Daytime TV Goes Horribly Wrong"
Poor Anne Diamond was trying to nail Dennis Healy about his wife going for
private treatment, when he was castigating others for doing so.
She was too lightweight for him and he did a John Nott and stormed out 
in a huff.

Don't they realise that to do that, it shows them in a totally bad light?

Pat H
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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Mon Oct  3 07:13:57 2022
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 13:13:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
Message-ID: <006401d8d721$9d64a120$d82de360$@pgtmedia.co.uk>

Hi Pat,

I notice you did not request going back to Pounds, Shillings & Pence?

 

Is this to avoid the option to go to  sell at ?only? 24 pounds, 19 shillings and 11 pence?..?

 

 

Paul

 

Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

07802 243979

Mail;  <mailto:paul at pgtmedia.co.uk> paul at pgtmedia.co.uk 

Web;  <http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk/> http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin;    <http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746> http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB;  <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Pat Heigham via Tech1
Sent: 03 October 2022 13:08
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day

 

OK, people,

What can we go for today as Moan of the Day!

How about adverisements that entice one to buy something at just XX.99?

Don't the poor folks notice that it's not ?24.99, but ?25?
They just see the pounds figure, which is a subliminal marketing ploy.

Filled up with Unleaded this morning at the cheapest (in my area).
That was ?153.9 / litre, but really ?154.
Have we not come out of Europe? Lets' go back to gallons/feet/yards.

At least the speed limits are still in mph!

I'm sad that Robin Day is no longer a worthy opponent of politicians
on TV. He would have had something to say to our new Chancellor.
(Kwamikazi?).

Saw a prog the other night - "When Daytime TV Goes Horribly Wrong"
Poor Anne Diamond was trying to nail Dennis Healy about his wife going for
private treatment, when he was castigating others for doing so.
She was too lightweight for him and he did a John Nott and stormed out in a huff.

Don't they realise that to do that, it shows them in a totally bad light?

Pat H

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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 07:22:51 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 13:22:51 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
Message-ID: <08b5159f-0855-0fc0-2f11-707c4c12de1a@gmail.com>

If you did pay ?153.9 a litre for petrol, Pat, your pension must be very 
good indeed.?

On 03/10/2022 13:08, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote:
> OK, people,
> 
> What can we go for today as Moan of the Day!
> 
> How about adverisements that entice one to buy something at just XX.99?
> 
> Don't the poor folks notice that it's not ?24.99, but ?25?
> They just see the pounds figure, which is a subliminal marketing ploy.
> 
> Filled up with Unleaded this morning at the cheapest (in my area).
> That was ?153.9 / litre, but really ?154.
> Have we not come out of Europe? Lets' go back to gallons/feet/yards.
> 
> At least the speed limits are still in mph!
> 
> I'm sad that Robin Day is no longer a worthy opponent of politicians
> on TV. He would have had something to say to our new Chancellor.
> (Kwamikazi?).
> 
> Saw a prog the other night - "When Daytime TV Goes Horribly Wrong"
> Poor Anne Diamond was trying to nail Dennis Healy about his wife going for
> private treatment, when he was castigating others for doing so.
> She was too lightweight for him and he did a John Nott and stormed out 
> in a huff.
> 
> Don't they realise that to do that, it shows them in a totally bad light?
> 
> Pat H
> 
> 


From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Mon Oct  3 07:25:41 2022
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 13:25:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <006401d8d721$9d64a120$d82de360$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
	<006401d8d721$9d64a120$d82de360$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000501d8d723$490d5f70$db281e50$@gmail.com>

Most people who were proposing these reversions died many years ago, largely with senility

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Paul Thackray via Tech1
Sent: 03 October 2022 13:14
To: 'Pat Heigham' <pat.heigham at amps.net>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Moan of the Day

 

Hi Pat,

I notice you did not request going back to Pounds, Shillings & Pence?

 

Is this to avoid the option to go to  sell at ?only? 24 pounds, 19 shillings and 11 pence?..?

 

 

Paul

 

Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

07802 243979

Mail;  <mailto:paul at pgtmedia.co.uk> paul at pgtmedia.co.uk 

Web;  <http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk/> http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin;    <http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746> http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB;  <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> > On Behalf Of Pat Heigham via Tech1
Sent: 03 October 2022 13:08
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day

 

OK, people,

What can we go for today as Moan of the Day!

How about adverisements that entice one to buy something at just XX.99?

Don't the poor folks notice that it's not ?24.99, but ?25?
They just see the pounds figure, which is a subliminal marketing ploy.

Filled up with Unleaded this morning at the cheapest (in my area).
That was ?153.9 / litre, but really ?154.
Have we not come out of Europe? Lets' go back to gallons/feet/yards.

At least the speed limits are still in mph!

I'm sad that Robin Day is no longer a worthy opponent of politicians
on TV. He would have had something to say to our new Chancellor.
(Kwamikazi?).

Saw a prog the other night - "When Daytime TV Goes Horribly Wrong"
Poor Anne Diamond was trying to nail Dennis Healy about his wife going for
private treatment, when he was castigating others for doing so.
She was too lightweight for him and he did a John Nott and stormed out in a huff.

Don't they realise that to do that, it shows them in a totally bad light?

Pat H

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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Mon Oct  3 08:02:20 2022
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 14:02:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <006401d8d721$9d64a120$d82de360$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
	<006401d8d721$9d64a120$d82de360$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <D7D3E77DCF6F4DCF999C5FCD897EF780@Gigabyte>

At least in those days it was 6 pence not 6 p when spoken or occasionally 19 pounds 5 shillings and 2 pence.
And of course London Phone numbers were LANgham 4468 and latterly 01 580 4468 then 0171 580 4468 and not 0207 580 4468 as on many shops and also on stupid ?This morning? show on ITV

Mike

From: Paul Thackray via Tech1 
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2022 1:13 PM
To: 'Pat Heigham' ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Moan of the Day

Hi Pat,

I notice you did not request going back to Pounds, Shillings & Pence?

 

Is this to avoid the option to go to  sell at ?only? 24 pounds, 19 shillings and 11 pence?..?

 

 

Paul

 

Paul Thackray
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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Mon Oct  3 08:06:07 2022
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2022 14:06:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <D7D3E77DCF6F4DCF999C5FCD897EF780@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <l94mph3i6krfoncj08f8p653.1664802367191@pgtmedia.co.uk>

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Oct  3 08:21:11 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 14:21:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <006401d8d721$9d64a120$d82de360$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
	<006401d8d721$9d64a120$d82de360$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2c420381-b019-f209-bfdf-298cc7992788@amps.net>

Ah! Forgot currency!

Think it's 9 1/2p !

But I like the decimal currency.

If we went back to l. s. d, there would have to be a new maths degree 
for our youngsters!

But who knows the derivation of l. s. d ( It's Latin!). Look it up on 
Wikipedia?

 From memory, so I might be inaccurate:
L= libra (pound) S = soldate? D = denarii. Old Roman coinage.

My first (working) visit to the USA resulted in us having lunch at the 
nearest MacDonalds,
(which, incidentally, had burgers far better than the crap ones we get 
in the UK).

I was confused with the coinage upon paying, they had 100 cents to the 
dollar,
and pushed my pocket's contents to the girl, inviting her to take what 
was needed.

"Hey, you English?" she asked, " say something in English!"
"I just did", I retorted.

Pat H
(making no apology for political themes, but going for anything that 
might be the
subject of a conversation in the TVC tea bars - now -? about wine......).




On 03/10/2022 13:13, Paul Thackray wrote:

> Hi Pat,
>
> I notice you did not request going back to Pounds, Shillings & Pence?
>
> Is this to avoid the option to go to ?sell at ?only? 24 pounds, 19 
> shillings and 11 pence?..?
>
> Paul
>
> Paul Thackray
>
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>
> 07802 243979
>
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk <mailto:paul at pgtmedia.co.uk>
>
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk <http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk/>
>
> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746 
> <http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746>
>
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/ 
> <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/>
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Oct  3 08:32:05 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 14:32:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <D7D3E77DCF6F4DCF999C5FCD897EF780@Gigabyte>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
	<006401d8d721$9d64a120$d82de360$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<D7D3E77DCF6F4DCF999C5FCD897EF780@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <960259ec-3918-8fd0-f56e-98948ecf377e@amps.net>

Sadly, never anything changes for the better, or so it seems.

Scotland Yard was always WHItehall 1212, as in many police films!

Pat H

On 03/10/2022 14:02, Mike Jordan wrote:
> At least in those days it was 6 pence not 6 p when spoken or 
> occasionally 19 pounds 5 shillings and 2 pence.
> And of course London Phone numbers were LANgham 4468 and latterly 01 
> 580 4468 then 0171 580 4468 and not 0207 580 4468 as on many shops and 
> also on stupid ?This morning? show on ITV
> Mike
> *From:* Paul Thackray via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 03, 2022 1:13 PM
> *To:* 'Pat Heigham' <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net> ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
>
> Hi Pat,
>
> I notice you did not request going back to Pounds, Shillings & Pence?
>
> Is this to avoid the option to go to? sell at ?only? 24 pounds, 19 
> shillings and 11 pence?..?
>
> Paul
>
> Paul Thackray
>
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Mon Oct  3 09:11:56 2022
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:11:56 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
Message-ID: <7D9207B8-BA00-4A30-995D-5E157504C1F1@icloud.com>

How much????

> On 3 Oct 2022, at 13:08, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Filled up with Unleaded this morning at the cheapest (in my area).
> That was ?153.9 / litre, but really ?154.

? 
Graeme Wall




From nick at nickway.co.uk  Mon Oct  3 09:15:59 2022
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:15:59 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <l94mph3i6krfoncj08f8p653.1664802367191@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <D7D3E77DCF6F4DCF999C5FCD897EF780@Gigabyte>
	<l94mph3i6krfoncj08f8p653.1664802367191@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1478138290.877826.1664806559969@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Mon Oct  3 09:19:53 2022
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:19:53 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <D7D3E77DCF6F4DCF999C5FCD897EF780@Gigabyte>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
	<006401d8d721$9d64a120$d82de360$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<D7D3E77DCF6F4DCF999C5FCD897EF780@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <71025546.879076.1664806793275@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Mon Oct  3 09:21:50 2022
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 15:21:50 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
Message-ID: <78669666.879748.1664806910467@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Oct  3 10:42:06 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 16:42:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <78669666.879748.1664806910467@email.ionos.co.uk>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
	<78669666.879748.1664806910467@email.ionos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <e4adf1c6-ebb6-90b7-5d8b-8c063209004d@amps.net>

Hi Nick Way,

I do have a copy, so I'll dig it out from the junk yard that is my 
living room, and run it.

Pat


On 03/10/2022 15:21, Nick Way wrote:
> Pat,
>
> There is a word, though I forget, mentioned in The Meaning of Liff for 
> the .99p as you mention.
>
> Can anyone help? My copy is in storage back in the UK.
> Cheers,
>
> Nick WAY
>> On 03/10/2022 16:08 +04 Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> OK, people,
>>
>> What can we go for today as Moan of the Day!
>>
>> How about adverisements that entice one to buy something at just XX.99
>>
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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Mon Oct  3 10:45:14 2022
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 17:45:14 +0200
Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?q?Re=3A__Moan_of_the_Day?=
In-Reply-To: <e4adf1c6-ebb6-90b7-5d8b-8c063209004d@amps.net>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
	<78669666.879748.1664806910467@email.ionos.co.uk>
	<e4adf1c6-ebb6-90b7-5d8b-8c063209004d@amps.net>
Message-ID: <trinity-2b53ba9f-6931-49d5-954a-57b5b0cf8f5d-1664811914552@msvc-mesg-eue008>

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Oct  3 12:09:31 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 18:09:31 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <7D9207B8-BA00-4A30-995D-5E157504C1F1@icloud.com>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
	<7D9207B8-BA00-4A30-995D-5E157504C1F1@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <2cc7ac29-8ece-90d5-103f-de114e6a1f92@amps.net>

?153.9

Pat

On 03/10/2022 15:11, Graeme Wall wrote:
> How much????
>
>> On 3 Oct 2022, at 13:08, Pat Heigham via Tech1<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>  wrote:
>>
>> Filled up with Unleaded this morning at the cheapest (in my area).
>> That was ?153.9 / litre, but really ?154.
> ?
> Graeme Wall
>
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Oct  3 12:13:44 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 18:13:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <2cc7ac29-8ece-90d5-103f-de114e6a1f92@amps.net>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
	<7D9207B8-BA00-4A30-995D-5E157504C1F1@icloud.com>
	<2cc7ac29-8ece-90d5-103f-de114e6a1f92@amps.net>
Message-ID: <2abd9a93-aff4-cf53-f08d-69e9fc260f45@amps.net>

Ah! I see what you mean:

?1.539 / litre

Pat

On 03/10/2022 18:09, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> ?153.9
>
> Pat
>
> On 03/10/2022 15:11, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> How much????
>>
>>> On 3 Oct 2022, at 13:08, Pat Heigham via Tech1<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Filled up with Unleaded this morning at the cheapest (in my area).
>>> That was ?153.9 / litre, but really ?154.
>> ?
>> Graeme Wall
>>
>>
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Oct  3 16:10:27 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 22:10:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <78669666.879748.1664806910467@email.ionos.co.uk>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
	<78669666.879748.1664806910467@email.ionos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4ebbe2de-ec16-013a-dc1a-8a80c0bfcf15@amps.net>

Well, Nick, I've viewed "The Meaning of Life' - no mention of 0.99.

Maybe that was a different programme?

"The Meaning of Life" would today be deemed really non-U.

Section VI has the penis song which is amusing, and Mr.Creosote exploding
in the restaurant which is gross.

I think that it could not be shown today for fear of offending virtually 
everyone,
but that's satire isn't it?

Pat H


On 03/10/2022 15:21, Nick Way wrote:
> Pat,
>
> There is a word, though I forget, mentioned in The Meaning of Liff for 
> the .99p as you mention.
>
> Can anyone help? My copy is in storage back in the UK.
> Cheers,
>
> Nick WAY
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From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Oct  4 00:25:30 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 07:25:30 +0200
Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?q?Busman=E2=80=99s_holiday_featuring_Technocrane?=
Message-ID: <FA967D68-9FF6-4F92-9E1C-CEF830E42C1A@me.com>

It?s a bit late for the discussion about Technocranes, but I?m currently in Germany and in the city I?m staying in, there has been a three day festival celebrating German reunification.  Huge numbers of cultural events have been happening throughout the city. The German broadcaster ZDF did a number of live OBs and I stumbled across one of them where a German pop group were performing ( miming badly ).  

Coverage included a 45 foot Technocrane, one Steadicam, at least two hand held radio cams, an Octodrone, at least eight other cameras including one on an Elemac track and another on a Moonshot hoist. 

They certainly like their high angle shots. The location was on the highest point of the citadel, which was on much higher ground than the Dom ( Cathedral ),  which in turn towered over the medieval city. Those shots must have been much more interesting than the shots of the pop group. There was also an elevated open air presentation studio for guests to be interviewed, again with the Dom and city as a backdrop.

The production management aspect looked rather chaotic.  If it had been a British OB, I think there would have been some choice language on talkback when a number of contributors failed to take their cues promptly, leaving dead air and awkward looks from presenters. I saw three scanners based in different areas, possibly others elsewhere too. All the scanners I spotted were ZDF scanners - no facility companies were hired during the making of this programme.

There were large crowds trying to watch the proceedings, so I only snapped a couple of pictures as I walked along a pathway and it wasn?t a particularly good vantage point, but you get the idea.  One thing I noticed was that about half of the cameramen were camerawomen. 

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Another observation is that once the show was over, derigging was a rather leisurely affair.  Even the biggest OBs in Britain get wrapped up within a couple of hours, but these guys were still wrapping up the sound and vision gear more than four hours after the show was over.

Later in the evening I joined a long queue to sample what was possibly the most delicious street-food I?ve ever had.  It was no hardship standing in line as behind us was a full symphony orchestra on an open air stage, with a choir of about one hundred on the steps of the Dom. The food was thick slices of pork, bigger than your hand. It had been marinated overnight, then threaded onto huge skewers and placed on a device which rotates them above a log fire for at least three to four hours. 

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There might have been beer too. Waffles as well.  A couple of glasses of Gl?hwein to keep out the cold ( 15? during the evening is clearly considered cold enough to justify drinking Gl?hwein for medicinal reasons ). 

Alan

From nick at nickway.co.uk  Tue Oct  4 01:33:02 2022
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 07:33:02 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <4ebbe2de-ec16-013a-dc1a-8a80c0bfcf15@amps.net>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
	<78669666.879748.1664806910467@email.ionos.co.uk>
	<4ebbe2de-ec16-013a-dc1a-8a80c0bfcf15@amps.net>
Message-ID: <2081833604.1197615.1664865182377@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Oct  4 01:53:07 2022
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 07:53:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <2081833604.1197615.1664865182377@email.ionos.co.uk>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
	<78669666.879748.1664806910467@email.ionos.co.uk>
	<4ebbe2de-ec16-013a-dc1a-8a80c0bfcf15@amps.net>
	<2081833604.1197615.1664865182377@email.ionos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <D834F348-8CA1-48FB-BB27-1CDC671CCA0C@icloud.com>

A quick skim through the book didn?t find it.

> On 4 Oct 2022, at 07:33, Nick Way via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi Pat,
>  
> When I wrote "Liff" it wasn't a spelling error. It's a book by John Lloyd and Douglas Adams.
>  
> <The Meaning of Liff.jpg>
>  
> Although, according to Wikipedia, the opening title for the Meaning of Life are rewritten on screen from "Liff"!
>  
> With best wishes, 
> 
> Nick.
>> On 04/10/2022 01:10 +04 Pat Heigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>>  
>>  
>> Well, Nick, I've viewed "The Meaning of Life' - no mention of 0.99.
>> 
>> Maybe that was a different programme?
>> 
>> "The Meaning of Life" would today be deemed really non-U.
>> 
>> Section VI has the penis song which is amusing, and Mr.Creosote exploding
>> in the restaurant which is gross.
>> 
>> I think that it could not be shown today for fear of offending virtually everyone,
>> but that's satire isn't it?
>> 
>> Pat H
>> 
>>  
>> On 03/10/2022 15:21, Nick Way wrote:
>>> Pat, 
>>> 
>>> There is a word, though I forget, mentioned in The Meaning of Liff for the .99p as you mention. 
>>> 
>>> Can anyone help? My copy is in storage back in the UK.
>>>  
>>> Cheers, 
>>> 
>>> Nick WAY
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From nick at nickway.co.uk  Tue Oct  4 02:01:22 2022
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 08:01:22 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Tech1] Moan of the Day
In-Reply-To: <D834F348-8CA1-48FB-BB27-1CDC671CCA0C@icloud.com>
References: <ef244002-fa00-ba90-e916-fb26b9c53452@amps.net>
	<78669666.879748.1664806910467@email.ionos.co.uk>
	<4ebbe2de-ec16-013a-dc1a-8a80c0bfcf15@amps.net>
	<2081833604.1197615.1664865182377@email.ionos.co.uk>
	<D834F348-8CA1-48FB-BB27-1CDC671CCA0C@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <745780593.1200034.1664866882861@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 04:09:34 2022
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 10:09:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Gemini
Message-ID: <6dc5c662-c1a3-c803-c9e3-dfa6ea504ed4@gmail.com>

Hi all,

Re a recent discussion ...

Just come across this while looking for something completely different!

Interesting the Gemini had to work with a (manual) Varitol Zoom lens! No 
one mentioned that before...

International Broadcast Engineer 1965-09


Best regards,

Alec

-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502
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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 04:19:01 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 10:19:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Gemini
In-Reply-To: <6dc5c662-c1a3-c803-c9e3-dfa6ea504ed4@gmail.com>
References: <6dc5c662-c1a3-c803-c9e3-dfa6ea504ed4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f79ec251-fe38-402b-3eb1-7544b09fe9f8@gmail.com>

Many years ago, ITV had research labs based at Thames TV. One very 
promising (to me) project was recording digitally onto 16mm B&W film 
stock. To give a pretty cheap and long lived way of archiving things. I 
remember seeing the excellent results. Today, everything will be on a 
cloud somewhere - but did wonder if it might still have its uses?

On 04/10/2022 10:09, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Re a recent discussion ...
> 
> Just come across this while looking for something completely different!
> 
> Interesting the Gemini had to work with a (manual) Varitol Zoom lens! No 
> one mentioned that before...
> 
> International Broadcast Engineer 1965-09
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Alec
> 
> -- 
> =======
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> Mob:  07789 561 346
> Tel:  0118 981 7502
> 
> 


From waresound at msn.com  Tue Oct  4 04:48:55 2022
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 09:48:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Gemini
In-Reply-To: <6dc5c662-c1a3-c803-c9e3-dfa6ea504ed4@gmail.com>
References: <6dc5c662-c1a3-c803-c9e3-dfa6ea504ed4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB16048EEE3B24D02AA1842D16A75A9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Varotal. But don?t take offence - they spelt it wrong in the article too.
Either way, a splendid relic of the days when we actually made things in this Country.
Cheers,
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

On 4 Oct 2022, at 10:10, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

Hi all,

Re a recent discussion ...

Just come across this while looking for something completely different!

Interesting the Gemini had to work with a (manual) Varitol Zoom lens! No one mentioned that before...

International Broadcast Engineer 1965-09

[05gpDvKL4uVZ1z5i.png]


Best regards,

Alec

--
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com<mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Oct  4 08:05:30 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 14:05:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
Message-ID: <ed91c694-7f57-6a79-1b3d-ae27f84665cc@amps.net>

Not a moan - but what's Pat wittering on about, now!

Having got a Co-op offer of money off Walkers Crisps, I'm reminded that 
they are now 'ready salted'.
Remember when Smiths crisps used to have the salt in a little blue twist 
of paper, then a square
packet, so one could add salt or not.

I hadn't seen Smiths on the shelves for ages, but here's the expanation:

Smiths was later owned by biscuit companyNabisco 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabisco>, and finally sold to American 
companyPepsiCo <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PepsiCo>in the 
1990s.Subsequently, Pepsico withdrew the brand, in favour of popular 
British brandWalkers 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkers_(snack_foods)>, which had been 
heavily marketed in a campaign using former England international 
footballer turned television presenterGary Lineker 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Lineker>.Many of the products 
previously owned by Smith's became labelled as Walkers, such asQuavers 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quavers>.
Current Smiths brands include Smiths Crisps, Frazzles, Chipsticks, Snaps 
and Savoury Selection (Bacon Fries and Scampi Fries).

My school tuckshop stocked crisps, but the bullies used to creep up 
behind you and scrunch up the packet, rendering the crisps to a shower 
of bits.
I was good at boxing but never dared retaliate, as they 'woz bigger than 
me'!

Pat H
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Oct  4 09:42:21 2022
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 15:42:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
In-Reply-To: <ed91c694-7f57-6a79-1b3d-ae27f84665cc@amps.net>
References: <ed91c694-7f57-6a79-1b3d-ae27f84665cc@amps.net>
Message-ID: <D40B8393-F579-4550-82C8-EED17BA86DA8@icloud.com>

Talking of having your crisps crunched up (ooh nurse!) I remember buying packets of broken crisps for 1d, complete with little blue bag of salt. And wagon wheels, and, and, and?

> On 4 Oct 2022, at 14:05, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Not a moan - but what's Pat wittering on about, now!
> 
> Having got a Co-op offer of money off Walkers Crisps, I'm reminded that they are now 'ready salted'.
> Remember when Smiths crisps used to have the salt in a little blue twist of paper, then a square
> packet, so one could add salt or not.
> 
> I hadn't seen Smiths on the shelves for ages, but here's the expanation:
> 
> Smiths was later owned by biscuit company Nabisco, and finally sold to American company PepsiCo in the 1990s. Subsequently, Pepsico withdrew the brand, in favour of popular British brand Walkers, which had been heavily marketed in a campaign using former England international footballer turned television presenter Gary Lineker. Many of the products previously owned by Smith's became labelled as Walkers, such as Quavers.
> Current Smiths brands include Smiths Crisps, Frazzles, Chipsticks, Snaps and Savoury Selection (Bacon Fries and Scampi Fries).
> My school tuckshop stocked crisps, but the bullies used to creep up behind you and scrunch up the packet, rendering the crisps to a shower of bits.
> I was good at boxing but never dared retaliate, as they 'woz bigger than me'!
> Pat H
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From waresound at msn.com  Tue Oct  4 09:44:53 2022
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 14:44:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
In-Reply-To: <ed91c694-7f57-6a79-1b3d-ae27f84665cc@amps.net>
References: <ed91c694-7f57-6a79-1b3d-ae27f84665cc@amps.net>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB160490F7DF066C2F09A61768A75A9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Boxing?! I?ve always seen you as a 7 Stone (then) skinny weakling like me! I hated boxing. You were keen on shooting - maybe it?s not appropriate to suggest you should have shot the bulllies, but you could have tried peeing in their slippers, which would have made you feel much better.
School tuck shop? You spoilt brat, we never had one at Wells!
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

On 4 Oct 2022, at 14:06, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

Not a moan - but what's Pat wittering on about, now!

Having got a Co-op offer of money off Walkers Crisps, I'm reminded that they are now 'ready salted'.
Remember when Smiths crisps used to have the salt in a little blue twist of paper, then a square
packet, so one could add salt or not.

I hadn't seen Smiths on the shelves for ages, but here's the expanation:

Smiths was later owned by biscuit company Nabisco<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabisco>, and finally sold to American company PepsiCo<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PepsiCo> in the 1990s. Subsequently, Pepsico withdrew the brand, in favour of popular British brand Walkers<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkers_(snack_foods)>, which had been heavily marketed in a campaign using former England international footballer turned television presenter Gary Lineker<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Lineker>. Many of the products previously owned by Smith's became labelled as Walkers, such as Quavers<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quavers>.
Current Smiths brands include Smiths Crisps, Frazzles, Chipsticks, Snaps and Savoury Selection (Bacon Fries and Scampi Fries).

My school tuckshop stocked crisps, but the bullies used to creep up behind you and scrunch up the packet, rendering the crisps to a shower of bits.
I was good at boxing but never dared retaliate, as they 'woz bigger than me'!

Pat H

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Tue Oct  4 10:27:02 2022
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 16:27:02 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB160490F7DF066C2F09A61768A75A9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ed91c694-7f57-6a79-1b3d-ae27f84665cc@amps.net>
	<AM9P191MB160490F7DF066C2F09A61768A75A9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <2C0D93FA12004A1DB8CEFF7CBD761A49@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Wot ? no tuckshop?

As a day boy I consumed vast quantities of carbohydrate from ours. The boarders at morning break were given what was known as ?scrape? ? a miserable offering of tasteless white sliced bread with the merest skim of Stork margarine as a topping. 

Ironic that the majority of them, mostly from comfortable or well to do families made do with that (as it was costed within the fees) whereas I, as a scholarship boy from a council estate, had sixpence each day for the tuck shop which bought 4 jam doughnuts. I consumed all four, day in day out, through term time but was still barely 9 1/2 stone when I finished sixth form. You can run off a fair few calories on the rugby field ? a daily event except Thursday which was CCF day.

The tuck shop was a raised roller shutter affair flush with the surrounding wall, the opening being wide enough for perhaps 8 or 10 boys. Unless your last period before break was in a classroom close by it was a matter of sprinting there and scrumming down, hoping the flank you were pushing with pushed hard enough to displace the opposition on the other flank. Oiks comes to mind.

?Walt? as the unfortunate dispenser of goods operated against a crescendo of ?four jam doughs please Walt? or ?four buns please Walt? but somehow managed to deal with the mel?e.

None too edifying looking back.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Nick Ware via Tech1 
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2022 3:44 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Crisps!

Boxing?! I?ve always seen you as a 7 Stone (then) skinny weakling like me! I hated boxing. You were keen on shooting - maybe it?s not appropriate to suggest you should have shot the bulllies, but you could have tried peeing in their slippers, which would have made you feel much better. 
School tuck shop? You spoilt brat, we never had one at Wells!

Cheers,
Nick.


Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad


  On 4 Oct 2022, at 14:06, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


  ? 
  Not a moan - but what's Pat wittering on about, now!

  Having got a Co-op offer of money off Walkers Crisps, I'm reminded that they are now 'ready salted'.
  Remember when Smiths crisps used to have the salt in a little blue twist of paper, then a square
  packet, so one could add salt or not.

  I hadn't seen Smiths on the shelves for ages, but here's the expanation:

  Smiths was later owned by biscuit company Nabisco, and finally sold to American company PepsiCo in the 1990s. Subsequently, Pepsico withdrew the brand, in favour of popular British brand Walkers, which had been heavily marketed in a campaign using former England international footballer turned television presenter Gary Lineker. Many of the products previously owned by Smith's became labelled as Walkers, such as Quavers.
  Current Smiths brands include Smiths Crisps, Frazzles, Chipsticks, Snaps and Savoury Selection (Bacon Fries and Scampi Fries).

  My school tuckshop stocked crisps, but the bullies used to creep up behind you and scrunch up the packet, rendering the crisps to a shower of bits.
  I was good at boxing but never dared retaliate, as they 'woz bigger than me'!

  Pat H


  -- 
  Tech1 mailing list
  Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
  http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Oct  4 11:43:57 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 17:43:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB160490F7DF066C2F09A61768A75A9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ed91c694-7f57-6a79-1b3d-ae27f84665cc@amps.net>
	<AM9P191MB160490F7DF066C2F09A61768A75A9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <3eac47db-e948-6b87-7d56-e9ee06218100@amps.net>

Well, I'm only 2 1/2 stone heavier, now!

Boxing was a hated event. The PT instructor, ex Services PTI, quite 
liked me, small but a good gymnast, nicknamed me 'Potter' (after Potter 
Heigham),
but put me up against a very much bulkier chap.

He stopped the bout, and told the rest of the class, that because I was 
smaller, I had used _all_ the defence moves that he had been trying to 
teach us all term.
It was purely to avoid getting thumped!

Shooting - I was useless at any field sports at school, so in order to 
escape cricket, I joined the rifle club, where we lay around on the quad 
with unloaded rifles
and practised letting off the trigger without wavering the aim.
To my surprise, I was a fairly good shot at Bisley, and gaining a place 
on the team 8, was entitled to wear the white edged blazer up with the 
rugger first XV and cricket XI.
(think that was all to do with the snob education). Never had to request 
a 'jocker' from Matron!
However, I could hold my head up - in fact visiting a friend in Canada 
whose neighbour was a policeman, and being invited to have a practice on 
the Toronto police gun range,
I achieved such a good group, and got offered a job with their Armed 
Response Unit!

The weapon was the Heckler & Koch MP5 which I believe is standard issue 
amongst many police forces. I selected to single shot, rather than 
automatic.
I'm very comfortable around firearms & for some time had my own rifle, 
initially .303, but when the government stocks of ammo ran out, it was 
rebarrelled to 7.62 calibre.
I eventually sold it to another team member who got better scores with 
it than I did. (My good friend in Somerset had a clay launcher. That is 
a completely different technique,
with a 12-bore shotgun, but I was chuffed, the first time I tried, 
scoring three out of five hits).

The Police finally insisted that it should be kept in the armoury of the 
Surrey Rifle Association, at Bisley and not at home, but had to inspect 
it annually. Having fixed an appointment,
the coppers were a trifle late, apologising that they had had to make an 
arrest on the way. The felon was quaking in the back of the police car, 
having been brought to a rifle range!

What he must have thought would happen to him!

Pat


On 04/10/2022 15:44, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> Boxing?! I?ve always seen you as a 7 Stone (then) skinny weakling like 
> me! I hated boxing. You were keen on shooting - maybe it?s not 
> appropriate to suggest you should have shot the bulllies, but you 
> could have tried peeing in their slippers, which would have made you 
> feel much better.
> School tuck shop? You spoilt brat, we never had one at Wells!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 4 Oct 2022, at 14:06, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?I was good at boxing but never dared retaliate, as they 'woz bigger 
>> than me'!
>>
>> Pat H
>>
>>
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Oct  4 12:41:30 2022
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 18:41:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB160490F7DF066C2F09A61768A75A9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ed91c694-7f57-6a79-1b3d-ae27f84665cc@amps.net>
	<AM9P191MB160490F7DF066C2F09A61768A75A9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <cde13b73-e757-2389-2e06-c4c581af353f@btinternet.com>

They re-introduced the blue twisted salt packets some time ago. I don't 
like the taste of Walkers anyway and prefer the own-brand ones from any 
supermarket, especially as they are a lot cheaper! Cheers, Dave


From techtone at protonmail.com  Tue Oct  4 14:47:51 2022
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2022 19:47:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
In-Reply-To: <ed91c694-7f57-6a79-1b3d-ae27f84665cc@amps.net>
References: <ed91c694-7f57-6a79-1b3d-ae27f84665cc@amps.net>
Message-ID: <PVU1W9O9CC42cDok7CMqx7kjPcY9wIZ7_kUjFOAypiBmLBp-98WpdW-2q1Asa_8FJvZ_gD1SHYXW7GxlV_O2vp7FCSHOt1yDA1VCta5iyUA=@protonmail.com>

I have just returned from the Emerald Isle, and whilst there have discovered THE potato crisps. Made in Tandragee, they are Tayto Craft Crisps, exactly what crisps should be. Tayto crisps have been made here for well over 60 years, and their bog-standard crisps are available throughout the province, and quite adequate as ordinary crisps go, but these craft ones, oh yum, scrunch, chomp (especially washed down with a pint of Guinness!). Oh dear, they're not yet available here, but I have a postal service, courtesy of my sister in Belfast, whenever I'm running low. Eat your hearts out you lesser mortals.

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.

------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, October 4th, 2022 at 14:05, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Not a moan - but what's Pat wittering on about, now!
>
> Having got a Co-op offer of money off Walkers Crisps, I'm reminded that they are now 'ready salted'.
> Remember when Smiths crisps used to have the salt in a little blue twist of paper, then a square
> packet, so one could add salt or not.
>
> I hadn't seen Smiths on the shelves for ages, but here's the expanation:
>
> Smiths was later owned by biscuit company[Nabisco](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabisco), and finally sold to American company[PepsiCo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PepsiCo)in the 1990s.Subsequently, Pepsico withdrew the brand, in favour of popular British brand[Walkers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkers_(snack_foods)), which had been heavily marketed in a campaign using former England international footballer turned television presenter[Gary Lineker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Lineker).Many of the products previously owned by Smith's became labelled as Walkers, such as[Quavers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quavers).
> Current Smiths brands include Smiths Crisps, Frazzles, Chipsticks, Snaps and Savoury Selection (Bacon Fries and Scampi Fries).
>
> My school tuckshop stocked crisps, but the bullies used to creep up behind you and scrunch up the packet, rendering the crisps to a shower of bits.
> I was good at boxing but never dared retaliate, as they 'woz bigger than me'!
>
> Pat H
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From alawrance1 at me.com  Tue Oct  4 15:29:02 2022
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 21:29:02 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
In-Reply-To: <PVU1W9O9CC42cDok7CMqx7kjPcY9wIZ7_kUjFOAypiBmLBp-98WpdW-2q1Asa_8FJvZ_gD1SHYXW7GxlV_O2vp7FCSHOt1yDA1VCta5iyUA=@protonmail.com>
References: <PVU1W9O9CC42cDok7CMqx7kjPcY9wIZ7_kUjFOAypiBmLBp-98WpdW-2q1Asa_8FJvZ_gD1SHYXW7GxlV_O2vp7FCSHOt1yDA1VCta5iyUA=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <04DCF8E5-B2A3-4261-A7DF-A9A013FDE121@me.com>

They may not be as good as your NI crisps, Tony, but we're very fond of Tyrells Furrows.

Not widely available but usually at Waitrose. Their 'ordinary' ones are OK, but Furrows are better.

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 4 Oct 2022, at 20:48, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I have just returned from the Emerald Isle, and whilst there have discovered THE potato crisps. Made in Tandragee, they are Tayto Craft Crisps, exactly what crisps should be. Tayto crisps have been made here for well over 60 years, and their bog-standard crisps are available throughout the province, and quite adequate as ordinary crisps go, but these craft ones, oh yum, scrunch, chomp (especially washed down with a pint of Guinness!). Oh dear, they're not yet available here, but I have a postal service, courtesy of my sister in Belfast, whenever I'm running low. Eat your hearts out you lesser mortals.
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> 
> ------- Original Message -------
>> On Tuesday, October 4th, 2022 at 14:05, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Not a moan - but what's Pat wittering on about, now!
>> 
>> Having got a Co-op offer of money off Walkers Crisps, I'm reminded that they are now 'ready salted'.
>> Remember when Smiths crisps used to have the salt in a little blue twist of paper, then a square
>> packet, so one could add salt or not.
>> 
>> I hadn't seen Smiths on the shelves for ages, but here's the expanation:
>> 
>> Smiths was later owned by biscuit company Nabisco, and finally sold to American company PepsiCo in the 1990s. Subsequently, Pepsico withdrew the brand, in favour of popular British brand Walkers, which had been heavily marketed in a campaign using former England international footballer turned television presenter Gary Lineker. Many of the products previously owned by Smith's became labelled as Walkers, such as Quavers.
>> Current Smiths brands include Smiths Crisps, Frazzles, Chipsticks, Snaps and Savoury Selection (Bacon Fries and Scampi Fries).
>> 
>> My school tuckshop stocked crisps, but the bullies used to creep up behind you and scrunch up the packet, rendering the crisps to a shower of bits.
>> I was good at boxing but never dared retaliate, as they 'woz bigger than me'!
>> 
>> Pat H
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 15:31:21 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 21:31:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Baked beans
Message-ID: <25cfa453-e4b8-894b-4d45-516aa7da6469@gmail.com>

As we're whingeing about basic foods, have you opened a tin of Heinz 
Baked Beans lately?? I did this evening, and they looked like those even 
cheaper own brand beans from whoever.

And they tasted like it.

I added sugar, salt, tomato paste and balsamic vinegar, which, I think 
returned them to the proper taste.

B
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From hughsnape at talktalk.net  Tue Oct  4 15:43:52 2022
From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 21:43:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Baked beans
In-Reply-To: <25cfa453-e4b8-894b-4d45-516aa7da6469@gmail.com>
References: <25cfa453-e4b8-894b-4d45-516aa7da6469@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8F2B5CBB-3E16-4111-9221-B3DFC0982B39@talktalk.net>

I prefer Lidl, as here:

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/best-baked-beans-the-supermarket-own-brands-that-beat-branston-heinz-hp-abOOH9u0DYtP <https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/best-baked-beans-the-supermarket-own-brands-that-beat-branston-heinz-hp-abOOH9u0DYtP>

Hugh

> On 4 Oct 2022, at 21:31, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> As we're whingeing about basic foods, have you opened a tin of Heinz Baked Beans lately?  I did this evening, and they looked like those even cheaper own brand beans from whoever. 
> 
> And they tasted like it. 
> 
> I added sugar, salt, tomato paste and balsamic vinegar, which, I think returned them to the proper taste.
> 
> B
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From waresound at msn.com  Tue Oct  4 16:41:09 2022
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2022 21:41:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Baked beans
In-Reply-To: <25cfa453-e4b8-894b-4d45-516aa7da6469@gmail.com>
References: <25cfa453-e4b8-894b-4d45-516aa7da6469@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB16041F7A4DC38EB804C3C6D4A75A9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Are you sure they were the proper ones? There is a low sugar and salt version, which looks similar but tastes of nothing, and is banned from our house.
Did you hear the discussion on LBC today about how the Truss has made it compulsory for shops to move sweet and fatty products around regularly and not place them near the entrance or tills etc? It?s keeping our local M&S staff literally up all night moving everything around. Bloody menace.
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

On 4 Oct 2022, at 21:31, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? As we're whingeing about basic foods, have you opened a tin of Heinz Baked Beans lately?  I did this evening, and they looked like those even cheaper own brand beans from whoever.

And they tasted like it.

I added sugar, salt, tomato paste and balsamic vinegar, which, I think returned them to the proper taste.

B
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Wed Oct  5 02:41:37 2022
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2022 08:41:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
In-Reply-To: <04DCF8E5-B2A3-4261-A7DF-A9A013FDE121@me.com>
Message-ID: <kjpplt60283arlvle8qu8fm2.1664955697296@pgtmedia.co.uk>

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From mibridge at mac.com  Wed Oct  5 02:45:41 2022
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 08:45:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
In-Reply-To: <kjpplt60283arlvle8qu8fm2.1664955697296@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <kjpplt60283arlvle8qu8fm2.1664955697296@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C4D14541-006F-49A8-899A-483CCC4FA3CF@mac.com>

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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Wed Oct  5 02:50:27 2022
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2022 08:50:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
In-Reply-To: <C4D14541-006F-49A8-899A-483CCC4FA3CF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <d3d7bd5sdc2udlrucqg05eq5.1664956227611@pgtmedia.co.uk>

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From mibridge at mac.com  Wed Oct  5 02:53:07 2022
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 08:53:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Baked beans
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB16041F7A4DC38EB804C3C6D4A75A9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <AM9P191MB16041F7A4DC38EB804C3C6D4A75A9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <5BCDACF1-6E8B-44BA-B3C2-073A2C9F1742@mac.com>

I didn?t realise it was Truss - what a complete waste of time and effort - everyone seems angry about it, shop staff for having to shift things around, customers because they can?t find anything and shop staff again because customers are then blaming them. At least Sainsbury?s had the sense to put up notices apportioning the blame, whereas Waitrose merely apologised for the inconvenience - I have pointed out the error of their ways to no avail as yet. 

Mike G

> On 4 Oct 2022, at 22:41, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Are you sure they were the proper ones? There is a low sugar and salt version, which looks similar but tastes of nothing, and is banned from our house.
> Did you hear the discussion on LBC today about how the Truss has made it compulsory for shops to move sweet and fatty products around regularly and not place them near the entrance or tills etc? It?s keeping our local M&S staff literally up all night moving everything around. Bloody menace.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> 
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
> 
>>> On 4 Oct 2022, at 21:31, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ? As we're whingeing about basic foods, have you opened a tin of Heinz Baked Beans lately?  I did this evening, and they looked like those even cheaper own brand beans from whoever. 
>> 
>> And they tasted like it. 
>> 
>> I added sugar, salt, tomato paste and balsamic vinegar, which, I think returned them to the proper taste.
>> 
>> B
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Oct  5 03:28:34 2022
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 09:28:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
In-Reply-To: <kjpplt60283arlvle8qu8fm2.1664955697296@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <kjpplt60283arlvle8qu8fm2.1664955697296@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <0941446f-45ee-eb93-1649-abae392608e7@btinternet.com>

I bought some Seabrook crisps in Tesco this week as Tesco's own are 
never in stock! I  agree, they are quite nice! Cheers, Dave


From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Wed Oct  5 03:46:54 2022
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 09:46:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps! & Tuck Shop
In-Reply-To: <C4D14541-006F-49A8-899A-483CCC4FA3CF@mac.com>
References: <kjpplt60283arlvle8qu8fm2.1664955697296@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<C4D14541-006F-49A8-899A-483CCC4FA3CF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5D2AD24D-0C61-490B-84FC-9ADF2B977B4B@howell61.f9.co.uk>

My school tuckshop dispensed its wares from a hatch in the side of an old army hut in the junior playground. Nothing like sipping a mug of hot Oxo during Break on a cold Winter morning! I'll add Refreshers to your list Mike.

Hibou.



> On 5 Oct 2022, at 08:45, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> The mention of Wagon Wheels reminded me of penny chews, black jacks at four for a penny, I fancy, and sherbet fizz. 
> 
> Mike G
> 
>> On 5 Oct 2022, at 08:42, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> Seabrook s Chrisps are my favorite. One of the few independent makers in the UK that are left. Made in West Yorkshire. 
>> 
>> Walkers appear to have a deal with most big supermarkets that either they will not stock other brands or that they are not near the Walkers display?
>> 
>> I have found Seabrook in a few ASDA stores. 
>> Give them a try if you spot them. Maybe it's just because I had them as a Child it's my preference.?
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Paul Thackray
>> 
>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>> 
>> 07802 243979
>> 
>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>> 
>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>> 
>> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>> 
>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>> 
>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Sent: 4 October 2022 21:29
>> To: techtone at protonmail.com
>> Reply to: alawrance1 at me.com
>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Crisps!
>> 
>> They may not be as good as your NI crisps, Tony, but we're very fond of Tyrells Furrows.
>> 
>> Not widely available but usually at Waitrose. Their 'ordinary' ones are OK, but Furrows are better.
>> 
>> Alasdair Lawrance
>> 
>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 4 Oct 2022, at 20:48, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> I have just returned from the Emerald Isle, and whilst there have discovered THE potato crisps. Made in Tandragee, they are Tayto Craft Crisps, exactly what crisps should be. Tayto crisps have been made here for well over 60 years, and their bog-standard crisps are available throughout the province, and quite adequate as ordinary crisps go, but these craft ones, oh yum, scrunch, chomp (especially washed down with a pint of Guinness!). Oh dear, they're not yet available here, but I have a postal service, courtesy of my sister in Belfast, whenever I'm running low. Eat your hearts out you lesser mortals.
>>> 
>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>> 
>>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>> 
>>> ------- Original Message -------
>>>>         On Tuesday, October 4th, 2022 at 14:05, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Not a moan - but what's Pat wittering on about, now!
>>>> 
>>>> Having got a Co-op offer of money off Walkers Crisps, I'm reminded that they are now 'ready salted'.
>>>> Remember when Smiths crisps used to have the salt in a little blue twist of paper, then a square
>>>> packet, so one could add salt or not.
>>>> 
>>>> I hadn't seen Smiths on the shelves for ages, but here's the expanation:
>>>> 
>>>> Smiths was later owned by biscuit company Nabisco, and finally sold to American company PepsiCo in the 1990s. Subsequently, Pepsico withdrew the brand, in favour of popular British brand Walkers, which had been heavily marketed in a campaign using former England international footballer turned television presenter Gary Lineker. Many of the products previously owned by Smith's became labelled as Walkers, such as Quavers.
>>>> Current Smiths brands include Smiths Crisps, Frazzles,         Chipsticks, Snaps and Savoury Selection (Bacon Fries and Scampi Fries).
>>>> 
>>>> My school tuckshop stocked crisps, but the bullies used to creep up behind you and scrunch up the packet, rendering the crisps to a shower of bits.
>>>> I was good at boxing but never dared retaliate, as they 'woz bigger than me'!
>>>> 
>>>> Pat H
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Oct  5 03:58:10 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 09:58:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Baked beans
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB16041F7A4DC38EB804C3C6D4A75A9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <25cfa453-e4b8-894b-4d45-516aa7da6469@gmail.com>
	<AM9P191MB16041F7A4DC38EB804C3C6D4A75A9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <ec66fa34-66db-1f26-7bd8-e8196adfd239@amps.net>

There's a version of Heinz Baked beans that are packaged as 4x 'Snap 
pots' which seem OK, portions enough to fill a slice of toast.

Mention of our new PM seems to have brought politics into the chat 
arena, which was intially banned - but such things affect us all,
and would surely be subject to a tea-bar discussion topic, which is how 
I perceive this forum to be.

Placing sweeties next to the check-outs is a well-known sales ploy - and 
at child height, so said little ones tug at mothers' skirts,
demanding "Mummy, can I have......."

But I agree with Nick, that to move stock around when one knows where it 
is/was is not only arduous for the staff, but a pain
for the customer traipsing round the aisles, when a quick shopping visit 
is all that's required. (Perhaps the Truss should undergo
a week of shelf stocking!)

My village does have a confectionary shop that still has glass jars of 
sweets, weighed out as needed, and not prepacked.
(remember pear drops? Chocolate raisins? Although I bulk buy the latter 
in 3kg bags, having saved a couple of the old glass
jars, ex-Cadbury's Roses). I do not smoke, but a vice is chocolate - my 
dentist forbade caramels, as they regularly
dislodged fillings and crowns!

Keep well, everyone

Pat

On 04/10/2022 22:41, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> Are you sure they were the proper ones? There is a low sugar and salt 
> version, which looks similar but tastes of nothing, and is banned from 
> our house.
> Did you hear the discussion on LBC today about how the Truss has made 
> it compulsory for shops to move sweet and fatty products around 
> regularly and not place them near the entrance or tills etc? It?s 
> keeping our local M&S staff literally up all night moving everything 
> around. Bloody menace.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 4 Oct 2022, at 21:31, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ? As we're whingeing about basic foods, have you opened a tin of 
>> Heinz Baked Beans lately?? I did this evening, and they looked like 
>> those even cheaper own brand beans from whoever.
>>
>> And they tasted like it.
>>
>> I added sugar, salt, tomato paste and balsamic vinegar, which, I 
>> think returned them to the proper taste.
>>
>> B
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Oct  5 04:37:03 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 10:37:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
In-Reply-To: <ed91c694-7f57-6a79-1b3d-ae27f84665cc@amps.net>
References: <ed91c694-7f57-6a79-1b3d-ae27f84665cc@amps.net>
Message-ID: <9455c46a-5d8e-5783-8a12-839d96d98ec3@amps.net>

To re-visit this tale, I sort of got my revenge by appearing on stage, 
strutting my stuff in the school play one year, which for once
was not Shakespeare. Got a name check in the local rag, as having given 
a 'disarming and touching performance!'

So- ever the show off!

At boarding prep school, I acted in a couple of plays, playing female 
roles - shut up!
One was as a scullery maid. I had to take out a pile of plates from the 
'prop' oven, and
on the last night, pretended that they were red hot, and deliberately 
dropped the lot!

Got slightly reprimanded for smashing the school crockery but it got 
such a huge laugh.

So, in working on audience shows at TVC, I began to understand what 
makes comedy funny.

There have been programmes analysing this, featuring Galton & Simpson, 
Eddie Braben,
and Bill Dare from Radio, but what struck me that these guys who have 
produced some of
the funniest scripts, came across as being all miserable buggers themselves!

There's probably a psychologicalterm for this.

Pat H


On 04/10/2022 14:05, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> My school tuckshop stocked crisps, but the bullies used to creep up 
> behind you and scrunch up the packet, rendering the crisps to a shower 
> of bits.
> I was good at boxing but never dared retaliate, as they 'woz bigger 
> than me'!
>
> Pat H
>
>
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 04:53:17 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 10:53:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: 3 More HS2 pics
In-Reply-To: <d3f39204-80ab-4967-062c-e5022371f60a@gmail.com>
References: <d3f39204-80ab-4967-062c-e5022371f60a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <80ffcc6b-91dc-1095-770a-3eeeac29a5bb@gmail.com>


These pics come from the Network Engineers List. It's the viaduct 
carrying HS2 over the A412 at Denham. Spectacular stuff. I can't help 
thinking that that if they put windows in those? big tunnels there could 
be luxury flats for hundreds.

B


	

	

	

	


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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Oct  5 06:29:51 2022
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 12:29:51 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Wagon Wheels
In-Reply-To: <0941446f-45ee-eb93-1649-abae392608e7@btinternet.com>
References: <kjpplt60283arlvle8qu8fm2.1664955697296@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<0941446f-45ee-eb93-1649-abae392608e7@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <2fae7844-c139-6661-32f7-4d599954739b@btinternet.com>

Mentioning them reminded me of the sweet shop on the way to and from 
school where we all bought Weston's Wagon Wheels, todays Burton ones are 
about half the size - like today's Mars Bars, another favourite! Cheers, 
Dave


From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Oct  5 08:11:09 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 15:11:09 +0200
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
In-Reply-To: <9455c46a-5d8e-5783-8a12-839d96d98ec3@amps.net>
References: <9455c46a-5d8e-5783-8a12-839d96d98ec3@amps.net>
Message-ID: <507A7040-742B-4E32-A305-7A2C9F95A2DD@me.com>

> There have been programmes analysing this, featuring Galton & Simpson, Eddie Braben, and Bill Dare from Radio, but what struck me that these guys who have produced some of the funniest scripts, came across as being all miserable buggers themselves!
> Pat H
> 

That was something which struck me very early in my career. Prior to joining the Beeb, I used to write and perform comedy material using my ?? tape recorder. My material was influenced by radio shows like Round the Horne and I?m Sorry I?ll Read That Again. 

I was thrilled to bits to find myself working with Kenneth Williams, but he turned out to become exceedingly unpleasant when off screen. The moral seems to he that you should never meet your heroes. 

Alan
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Wed Oct  5 08:34:18 2022
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 14:34:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps!
In-Reply-To: <507A7040-742B-4E32-A305-7A2C9F95A2DD@me.com>
References: <9455c46a-5d8e-5783-8a12-839d96d98ec3@amps.net>
	<507A7040-742B-4E32-A305-7A2C9F95A2DD@me.com>
Message-ID: <2C20FC3A7B684E6FB8C5E438C7787EBE@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

I think the off screen behaviour of the estimable Mr Williams has been commented on some time ago and I would concur totally with Alan regarding the nature of the beast. I found him downright unpleasant and don?t feel that his stage nerves excused his snappy, even snarly manner towards people around him trying to do their job. Fitting him up with a radio mic for instance was not exactly rewarding.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2022 2:11 PM
To: tech1 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Crisps!

  There have been programmes analysing this, featuring Galton & Simpson, Eddie Braben, and Bill Dare from Radio, but what struck me that these guys who have produced some of the funniest scripts, came across as being all miserable buggers themselves!
  Pat H




That was something which struck me very early in my career. Prior to joining the Beeb, I used to write and perform comedy material using my ?? tape recorder. My material was influenced by radio shows like Round the Horne and I?m Sorry I?ll Read That Again. 

I was thrilled to bits to find myself working with Kenneth Williams, but he turned out to become exceedingly unpleasant when off screen. The moral seems to he that you should never meet your heroes. 

Alan


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 09:04:47 2022
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 15:04:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Mr Williams
In-Reply-To: <2C20FC3A7B684E6FB8C5E438C7787EBE@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <9455c46a-5d8e-5783-8a12-839d96d98ec3@amps.net>
	<507A7040-742B-4E32-A305-7A2C9F95A2DD@me.com>
	<2C20FC3A7B684E6FB8C5E438C7787EBE@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <CAA0HHB3OT8ruma+GW4iYHAuxJkDBsjfCLybMy1QAHpkbnv1WrA@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting, those comments about Kenneth Williams. Only worked with him
once, on LNLU.  Down in hostility after the programme, someone got him
started on Roman History, something in which he was really interested. So
didn't see a nasty side!
Best regards Alec

Sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections...

On Wed, 5 Oct 2022, 14:34 David Newbitt via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> I think the off screen behaviour of the estimable Mr Williams has been
> commented on some time ago and I would concur totally with Alan regarding
> the nature of the beast. I found him downright unpleasant and don?t feel
> that his stage nerves excused his snappy, even snarly manner towards people
> around him trying to do their job. Fitting him up with a radio mic for
> instance was not exactly rewarding.
>
> Dave Newbitt.
>
> *From:* Alan Taylor via Tech1
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 5, 2022 2:11 PM
> *To:* tech1
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Crisps!
>
>
> There have been programmes analysing this, featuring Galton & Simpson,
> Eddie Braben, and Bill Dare from Radio, but what struck me that these
> guys who have produced some of the funniest scripts, came across as being
> all miserable buggers themselves!
>
> Pat H
>
>
> That was something which struck me very early in my career. Prior to
> joining the Beeb, I used to write and perform comedy material using my ??
> tape recorder. My material was influenced by radio shows like Round the
> Horne and I?m Sorry I?ll Read That Again.
>
> I was thrilled to bits to find myself working with Kenneth Williams, but
> he turned out to become exceedingly unpleasant when off screen. The moral
> seems to he that you should never meet your heroes.
>
> Alan
>
> ------------------------------
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Wed Oct  5 09:09:36 2022
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 15:09:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Off screen behaviour
In-Reply-To: <2C20FC3A7B684E6FB8C5E438C7787EBE@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <9455c46a-5d8e-5783-8a12-839d96d98ec3@amps.net>
	<507A7040-742B-4E32-A305-7A2C9F95A2DD@me.com>
	<2C20FC3A7B684E6FB8C5E438C7787EBE@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <7912a3a6-2a5d-d9b0-5567-0d7f5cfd2a87@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Always difficult to judge, but there were some brilliant performers who 
could be decent people too.

I once muttered a favourable comment to the actor Ian Richardson after a 
superb bit of work for the OU - so good the sparks just stood gawping, 
despite having crashed into an unpaid overrun. I was a junior on the 
crew at that time.

A couple of days later he was walking down Oxford St, noticed me, and 
stopped to have a 10 minute discussion about what had worked, and what 
might not have - no arrogance, no celebing, no grandstanding. Just a 
straight conversation.

Chris Woolf



From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Oct  5 09:45:50 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2022 16:45:50 +0200
Subject: [Tech1] Off screen behaviour
In-Reply-To: <7912a3a6-2a5d-d9b0-5567-0d7f5cfd2a87@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <7912a3a6-2a5d-d9b0-5567-0d7f5cfd2a87@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E1C8F086-5255-48B8-8D24-E126953E0BFC@me.com>

One of the reasons why so many of us spent decades in this business is that most of the celebs and actors we work with turn out to be rather pleasant people.  I won?t do a roll call or name dropping session, but suffice it to say that the truly dreadful ones are very much in the minority.  

Sometimes the public persona is quite at odds with the offscreen persona.  I often find those people the most intriguing, either one screen nice guys who turn into horrors, or onscreen baddies who are in reality great people.


Alan

> On 5 Oct 2022, at 16:34, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Always difficult to judge, but there were some brilliant performers who could be decent people too.
> 
> I once muttered a favourable comment to the actor Ian Richardson after a superb bit of work for the OU - so good the sparks just stood gawping, despite having crashed into an unpaid overrun. I was a junior on the crew at that time.
> 
> A couple of days later he was walking down Oxford St, noticed me, and stopped to have a 10 minute discussion about what had worked, and what might not have - no arrogance, no celebing, no grandstanding. Just a straight conversation.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 05:26:38 2022
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 11:26:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJkci7doEm9E3UBqEqMYA2JErEoXmmhZ06WZXjkoagcECA@mail.gmail.com>

There are many bogus schemes on the internet concerned with energy
generation. However, this one might possibly have a future:

https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article

KW
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Thu Oct  6 05:47:35 2022
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 11:47:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJkci7doEm9E3UBqEqMYA2JErEoXmmhZ06WZXjkoagcECA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJkci7doEm9E3UBqEqMYA2JErEoXmmhZ06WZXjkoagcECA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FEEBE185-F7D6-4687-95D1-0EE02969B242@icloud.com>

The other scheme was Thorium reactors that were touted as safer than Uranium but not seen a reference to them for a while.

> On 6 Oct 2022, at 11:26, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> There are many bogus schemes on the internet concerned with energy generation. However, this one might possibly have a future:
> 
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article
> 
> KW
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 06:20:20 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 12:20:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJkci7doEm9E3UBqEqMYA2JErEoXmmhZ06WZXjkoagcECA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJkci7doEm9E3UBqEqMYA2JErEoXmmhZ06WZXjkoagcECA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2f51e16e-ea1d-3ac3-b037-015263d1b2af@gmail.com>


"War stimulates technical development" - long been known.? So we get 
into a rut on nuclear, like many other things that need to change - they 
have to be huge massively expensive things - preferably ones that can 
make plutonium for bombs on the side, so no thorium -? and that's how 
we've been stuck till now. Rolls Royce have been going on about SMRs 
based on submarine reactors for more than a decade, but governments from 
Blair onward have ignored then. Nick Clegg said "If we start building 
new reactors they won't be ready till 2021". Now, suddenly.......

And on an allied issue - who blew up the pipelines?? People blame Putin, 
and i suppose he's mad enough, but when warring is over it's the 
Russians who will lose the most, because they'll take a long time to 
replace and by that time everyone will have moved elsewhere.? How about 
the CIA?

B



On 06/10/2022 11:26, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
> There are many bogus schemes on the internet concerned with energy 
> generation. However, this one might possibly have a future:
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article 
> <https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article>
>
> KW
>
>
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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 07:01:53 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 13:01:53 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJkci7doEm9E3UBqEqMYA2JErEoXmmhZ06WZXjkoagcECA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJkci7doEm9E3UBqEqMYA2JErEoXmmhZ06WZXjkoagcECA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <071ba786-0d35-5f9c-08f3-2d46b0db81c1@gmail.com>

Anyone else have a laugh at those constant ads you see on FB etc for 
electric heaters? All claiming to save you money over your gas central 
heating?

On 06/10/2022 11:26, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
> There are many bogus schemes on the internet concerned with energy 
> generation. However, this one might possibly have a future:
> 
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article <https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article>
> 
> KW
> 
> 


From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Thu Oct  6 07:24:07 2022
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 13:24:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <071ba786-0d35-5f9c-08f3-2d46b0db81c1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ktqak31nvdjuepouljp375bu.1665059047684@pgtmedia.co.uk>


I guess you should take this with a pinch of salt......?



Paul

?

Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

07802 243979

Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk

Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin;?? http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/



	? Original Message ?	


From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 6 October 2022 13:02
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Reply to: plowmandave44 at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Energy


Anyone else have a laugh at those constant ads you see on FB etc for
electric heaters? All claiming to save you money over your gas central
heating?

On 06/10/2022 11:26, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
> There are many bogus schemes on the internet concerned with energy
> generation. However, this one might possibly have a future:
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article <https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article>
>
> KW
>
>

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Thu Oct  6 08:16:58 2022
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 14:16:58 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJkci7doEm9E3UBqEqMYA2JErEoXmmhZ06WZXjkoagcECA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJkci7doEm9E3UBqEqMYA2JErEoXmmhZ06WZXjkoagcECA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6d6d6609-8d15-9b5c-f1b0-2eda51cfc440@chriswoolf.co.uk>

There aren't too many technological inventions that have been on the 
cards for 60-70 years, and /haven't /been developed in that time, that 
suddenly become possible. There's generally a very good reason why they 
don't work in a practical sense.

The corrosion issues with salt reactors has always been extremely 
difficult to deal with, and the processing of the highly active waste 
materials they produce has never /ever/ gone well to date.

Thorium reactors do have some benefits, but also a lot of problems too. 
The U-232 involved is a serious gamma ray producer that makes the waste 
problems greater than some would like to mention. It is also an 
expensive generator.... and nuclear power is already about 5 times as 
expensive to produce as renewables.

SMRs are being pushed by RR (because they want to build them) but they 
too are very expensive to run - more so than large reactors - and though 
cheaper to build have slightly higher waste problems. Nuclear waste has 
/never/ yet been dealt with completely. The single SMRs they've used in 
ships are a lot easier to deal with than the multiple units that a 
practical power station requires.

I don't think any of these have any real hope of being used extensively 
in the future - they are too expensive to run, and have a poor image due 
to justifiable worries over safety - that's why we are nail-biting over 
Russia's behaviour with Ukraine's reactors.

The most plausible scenario is an increase in solar, wind and (very 
likely tidal) energy, combined with much more storage. The use of 
gravity storage, flow batteries etc is far cheaper and safer than any of 
the nuclear options, and the technology can be put into use within far 
shorter time-scales. And none of that has waste problems to bite us on 
the bottom in future centuries.

Chris Woolf


On 06/10/2022 11:26, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
> There are many bogus schemes on the internet concerned with energy 
> generation. However, this one might possibly have a future:
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article 
> <https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article>
>
> KW
>
>
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From billjenkin67 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 08:21:08 2022
From: billjenkin67 at gmail.com (Bill Jenkin)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 14:21:08 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Wagon Wheels
In-Reply-To: <2fae7844-c139-6661-32f7-4d599954739b@btinternet.com>
References: <kjpplt60283arlvle8qu8fm2.1664955697296@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<0941446f-45ee-eb93-1649-abae392608e7@btinternet.com>
	<2fae7844-c139-6661-32f7-4d599954739b@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6tP4C98GNshjr=uWT_WeAK7iwoek7s6WA_uPb=Aje42YrcAQ@mail.gmail.com>

According to Burtons this isn't the case. They claim that the only change
from the original size was 40 years ago when they changed to a smooth edge
instead of the original scalloped edge to enable automatic packaging. This
caused a reduction in size of 2mm. They don't say if that is in the
diameter or radius.
The target diameter is 77mm (about 3 inches). +/- 2.5mm.
Whether to believe them or not is up to your judgement.
Bill

On Wed, 5 Oct 2022, 12:30 dave.mdv via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Mentioning them reminded me of the sweet shop on the way to and from
> school where we all bought Weston's Wagon Wheels, todays Burton ones are
> about half the size - like today's Mars Bars, another favourite! Cheers,
> Dave
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 08:22:11 2022
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 14:22:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] View - old technology and how it was used
Message-ID: <71949dc9-f30f-8d92-8eee-c9aa14ef2c98@gmail.com>

Hi everyone

I have only just come across this - a very interesting read:

231-1428-1-SM-3.pdf

raw text: 
https://www.viewjournal.eu/articles/10.18146/2213-0969.2019.jethc163/




*Journal? of European Television History and Culture
*

*Vol 8 issue 15*

**

M A K I N GO L DT E L E V I S I O N
T E C H N O L O G YM A K ES E N S E


Paul Marshall
Golden Age Television

".... Suchhas been the speed of progress that much of the knowledge base 
expected of an electronic engineering graduate
forty years ago is now not required. This is particularly so in the 
sub-discipline of television and broadcast
engineering. A humble modern television set bears little technological 
resemblance to one produced even as
recently as thirty years ago. It still has a screen and a loudspeaker, 
but beyond that the core technologies are
radically different.

At the same time, the recording and preservation of these older 
techniques and practices has not kept pace
withthe year-on-year loss of knowledge and practice from within the 
electronic engineering profession. In the
specificcase of broadcast television, the emphasis for funded 
professional preservation and documentation
hasbeen on programme production techniques, artistic considerations and 
audience response. The deeper
technological history of television has been left to enthusiast?s online 
forums and websites, superficial
broad-brush narratives and specialist engineering-centric publications. 
These are internalist in nature and do
notusually engage with the best-practice principles of History of 
Science and Technology...Core technologies such as physical
optics, analogue electronics and precision mechanical engineering, need 
to be appreciated and incorporated
intostudies of the history of television technology, yet also follow the 
principles of HST in considering the
widerperspectives.

Other than material produced by personal websites, clubs and societies, 
written broadcast television history in
the United Kingdom over the crucial period 1960 to 1970 has largely been 
produced by journalists, media
academics, broadcasting organisations, ex-cameramen and other programme 
production staff. The BBC
manages its own history on its own terms and largely ignores aspects 
such as domestic television development,
transmitters, engineering infrastructure and absolutely all aspects of 
manufacturing. Independent Television (ITV)
does almost nothing as it has no desire to resurrect the memory of the 
once wonderful but expensive to run
regional television companies. All the manufacturers were gone decades 
ago. The story is much wider and
deeper than has usually been presented. Many tens of thousands of people 
in just the UK alone worked in
domestic television research and development, production, retailing and 
maintenance. Where are their stories,
their perspectives and their parts in shaping the technology? This is a 
rich seam of currently unrepresented
narrative. Sadly, these aspects are in the process of being lost and 
that is an area where new studies can help in
terms of preserving the evidence, both in terms of operational hardware, 
written primary sources and also in
terms of explanation and interpretation...."


Some interesting sentences in there:


".... written broadcast television history in
the United Kingdom over the crucial period 1960 to 1970 has largely been 
produced by journalists, media
academics, broadcasting organisations, ex-cameramen ..."


And of course one of those is Bernie's website? - history will owe a 
great debt to Bernie's foresight.


"... Where are their stories,
their perspectives and their parts in shaping the technology? This is a 
rich seam of currently unrepresented
narrative...."


*So come on lads, let's have more of your stories!? I'm sure Alan will 
do a super job with them!!*






-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502
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From techtone at protonmail.com  Thu Oct  6 09:15:37 2022
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 14:15:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Home battery storage
Message-ID: <gmwktJLEDZaZ9hG1BkWp7Lqt80JKkbqEIMk3zPT_py5Kj_xI91fNQdh1WO1eC6UgRaJExLYIg_--lf9IwfXTRAOmyMg2CxVJWi9zZfesL4k=@protonmail.com>

Following on from the thread about energy, I have just recently come across a smallish, but very expensive, portable unit for indoors (and outdoors, should you so wish). It's the EcoFlow system, and I was wondering if anyone here has got one, or similar, and can offer useful hints, tips and recommendations.

From what I've gleaned from the net, it answers all my back-up needs in the event of a power failure, and as well as mains charging, it can be trickle charged via portable solar panel/s. Too good to be true? I look forward to your input (AC or DC love).

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 10:30:14 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 16:30:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] View - old technology and how it was used
In-Reply-To: <71949dc9-f30f-8d92-8eee-c9aa14ef2c98@gmail.com>
References: <71949dc9-f30f-8d92-8eee-c9aa14ef2c98@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d8159850-eaa0-7e44-cedc-5d78eece9c3c@gmail.com>

I think this is the man who gave me a hard time once on the subject of 
EMI 2001 vs Marconi MkVII, and reading the paper I do think it's him. 
The Marconi was obviously the best camera by far. I said "You didn't 
have to operate them", and he carried on giving me a hard time till I 
stopped listening.? You can what he said just after Fig 3 in his paper.

B



On 06/10/2022 14:22, Alec Bray wrote:
>
> Hi everyone
>
> I have only just come across this - a very interesting read:
>
> 231-1428-1-SM-3.pdf
>
> raw text: 
> https://www.viewjournal.eu/articles/10.18146/2213-0969.2019.jethc163/
>
>
>
>
> *Journal? of European Television History and Culture
> *
>
> *Vol 8 issue 15*
>
>
> M A K I N GO L DT E L E V I S I O N
> T E C H N O L O G YM A K ES E N S E
>
>
> Paul Marshall
> Golden Age Television
>
> ".... Suchhas been the speed of progress that much of the knowledge 
> base expected of an electronic engineering graduate
> forty years ago is now not required. This is particularly so in the 
> sub-discipline of television and broadcast
> engineering. A humble modern television set bears little technological 
> resemblance to one produced even as
> recently as thirty years ago. It still has a screen and a loudspeaker, 
> but beyond that the core technologies are
> radically different.
>
> At the same time, the recording and preservation of these older 
> techniques and practices has not kept pace
> withthe year-on-year loss of knowledge and practice from within the 
> electronic engineering profession. In the
> specificcase of broadcast television, the emphasis for funded 
> professional preservation and documentation
> hasbeen on programme production techniques, artistic considerations 
> and audience response. The deeper
> technological history of television has been left to enthusiast?s 
> online forums and websites, superficial
> broad-brush narratives and specialist engineering-centric 
> publications. These are internalist in nature and do
> notusually engage with the best-practice principles of History of 
> Science and Technology...Core technologies such as physical
> optics, analogue electronics and precision mechanical engineering, 
> need to be appreciated and incorporated
> intostudies of the history of television technology, yet also follow 
> the principles of HST in considering the
> widerperspectives.
>
> Other than material produced by personal websites, clubs and 
> societies, written broadcast television history in
> the United Kingdom over the crucial period 1960 to 1970 has largely 
> been produced by journalists, media
> academics, broadcasting organisations, ex-cameramen and other 
> programme production staff. The BBC
> manages its own history on its own terms and largely ignores aspects 
> such as domestic television development,
> transmitters, engineering infrastructure and absolutely all aspects of 
> manufacturing. Independent Television (ITV)
> does almost nothing as it has no desire to resurrect the memory of the 
> once wonderful but expensive to run
> regional television companies. All the manufacturers were gone decades 
> ago. The story is much wider and
> deeper than has usually been presented. Many tens of thousands of 
> people in just the UK alone worked in
> domestic television research and development, production, retailing 
> and maintenance. Where are their stories,
> their perspectives and their parts in shaping the technology? This is 
> a rich seam of currently unrepresented
> narrative. Sadly, these aspects are in the process of being lost and 
> that is an area where new studies can help in
> terms of preserving the evidence, both in terms of operational 
> hardware, written primary sources and also in
> terms of explanation and interpretation...."
>
>
> Some interesting sentences in there:
>
>
> ".... written broadcast television history in
> the United Kingdom over the crucial period 1960 to 1970 has largely 
> been produced by journalists, media
> academics, broadcasting organisations, ex-cameramen ..."
>
>
> And of course one of those is Bernie's website - history will owe a 
> great debt to Bernie's foresight.
>
>
> "... Where are their stories,
> their perspectives and their parts in shaping the technology? This is 
> a rich seam of currently unrepresented
> narrative...."
>
>
> *So come on lads, let's have more of your stories!? I'm sure Alan will 
> do a super job with them!!*
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> =======
>
> Alec Bray
>
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> Mob:  07789 561 346
> Tel:  0118 981 7502
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From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 10:45:14 2022
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 16:45:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <071ba786-0d35-5f9c-08f3-2d46b0db81c1@gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJkci7doEm9E3UBqEqMYA2JErEoXmmhZ06WZXjkoagcECA@mail.gmail.com>
	<071ba786-0d35-5f9c-08f3-2d46b0db81c1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJ=w2oP_kn8CruHR=5bMoj3pyN3tDDn33s1wfdcrAMzn3A@mail.gmail.com>

I rarely look at FB, but I've seen ads elsewhere for really cheap-to-run
electric heaters.
They really do save money on heating. Trouble is, they output only a few
hundred watts.
KW

On Thu, 6 Oct 2022 at 13:02, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Anyone else have a laugh at those constant ads you see on FB etc for
> electric heaters? All claiming to save you money over your gas central
> heating?
>
> On 06/10/2022 11:26, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
> > There are many bogus schemes on the internet concerned with energy
> > generation. However, this one might possibly have a future:
> >
> >
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article
> <
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article
> >
> >
> > KW
> >
> >
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Thu Oct  6 10:46:00 2022
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 16:46:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Home battery storage
In-Reply-To: <gmwktJLEDZaZ9hG1BkWp7Lqt80JKkbqEIMk3zPT_py5Kj_xI91fNQdh1WO1eC6UgRaJExLYIg_--lf9IwfXTRAOmyMg2CxVJWi9zZfesL4k=@protonmail.com>
References: <gmwktJLEDZaZ9hG1BkWp7Lqt80JKkbqEIMk3zPT_py5Kj_xI91fNQdh1WO1eC6UgRaJExLYIg_--lf9IwfXTRAOmyMg2CxVJWi9zZfesL4k=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <cc22974e-7e5a-b4b6-582e-1e97c06e62b5@chriswoolf.co.uk>

It's just a set of LiFe Po batteries - the sort used in quite a number 
of power tools.

I think it has quite sophisticated charging and protection kit around 
it, but you pay an awful lot. It is really just an expanded UPS.

You can get far more storage for the money from installed battery 
systems. Or a petrol generator...

Chris Woolf

On 06/10/2022 15:15, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
> Following on from the thread about energy, I have just recently come 
> across a smallish, but very expensive, portable unit for indoors (and 
> outdoors, should you so wish). It's the EcoFlow system, and I was 
> wondering if anyone here has got one, or similar, and can offer useful 
> hints, tips and recommendations.
>
> From what I've gleaned from the net, it answers all my back-up needs 
> in the event of a power failure, and as well as mains charging, it can 
> be trickle charged via portable solar panel/s. Too good to be true? I 
> look forward to your input (AC or DC love).
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/> secure email.
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Oct  6 12:44:28 2022
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 18:44:28 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Wagon Wheels
In-Reply-To: <CAE6tP4C98GNshjr=uWT_WeAK7iwoek7s6WA_uPb=Aje42YrcAQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <kjpplt60283arlvle8qu8fm2.1664955697296@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<0941446f-45ee-eb93-1649-abae392608e7@btinternet.com>
	<2fae7844-c139-6661-32f7-4d599954739b@btinternet.com>
	<CAE6tP4C98GNshjr=uWT_WeAK7iwoek7s6WA_uPb=Aje42YrcAQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a9714313-5307-cea1-2482-525b580b7894@btinternet.com>

Interesting, they do seem a lot smaller than the ones I bought in the 
mid-fifties, I forgot to measure one at the time! Cheers, Dave


From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 13:13:25 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 19:13:25 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Home battery storage
In-Reply-To: <gmwktJLEDZaZ9hG1BkWp7Lqt80JKkbqEIMk3zPT_py5Kj_xI91fNQdh1WO1eC6UgRaJExLYIg_--lf9IwfXTRAOmyMg2CxVJWi9zZfesL4k=@protonmail.com>
References: <gmwktJLEDZaZ9hG1BkWp7Lqt80JKkbqEIMk3zPT_py5Kj_xI91fNQdh1WO1eC6UgRaJExLYIg_--lf9IwfXTRAOmyMg2CxVJWi9zZfesL4k=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <f302f944-a4a3-63d4-d74c-430696ea3d20@gmail.com>

If you mean the approx ?1200 one, its battery is about 1.2kwh. The same 
size as a decent leisure battery in a caravan etc. With an on board 
inventor to provide 240v.  Personally, for use at home, I thing a 
generator would be better value - and provided you have fuel, not time 
restricted.

On 06/10/2022 15:15, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
> Following on from the thread about energy, I have just recently come 
> across a smallish, but very expensive, portable unit for indoors (and 
> outdoors, should you so wish). It's the EcoFlow system, and I was 
> wondering if anyone here has got one, or similar, and can offer useful 
> hints, tips and recommendations.
> 
>  From what I've gleaned from the net, it answers all my back-up needs in 
> the event of a power failure, and as well as mains charging, it can be 
> trickle charged via portable solar panel/s. Too good to be true? I look 
> forward to your input (AC or DC love).
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/> secure email.
> 


From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 13:19:46 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 19:19:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJ=w2oP_kn8CruHR=5bMoj3pyN3tDDn33s1wfdcrAMzn3A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJkci7doEm9E3UBqEqMYA2JErEoXmmhZ06WZXjkoagcECA@mail.gmail.com>
	<071ba786-0d35-5f9c-08f3-2d46b0db81c1@gmail.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=w2oP_kn8CruHR=5bMoj3pyN3tDDn33s1wfdcrAMzn3A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99780999-a502-f8fa-6b78-0bae5e989ec0@gmail.com>

All electric heaters are near 100% efficient in converting power into 
heat. If you are willing to accept a lower temperature in a room, of 
course you'll save costs. But then you could turn off all the rads in 
your house except one and heat that room to that same temperature and 
save even more money. As gas is about 1/3rd  the price of electricity.

On 06/10/2022 16:45, Keith Wicks wrote:
> I rarely look at FB, but I've seen ads elsewhere for really cheap-to-run 
> electric heaters.
> They really do save money on heating. Trouble is, they output only a few 
> hundred watts.
> KW
> 
> On Thu, 6 Oct 2022 at 13:02, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
>     Anyone else have a laugh at those constant ads you see on FB etc for
>     electric heaters? All claiming to save you money over your gas central
>     heating?
> 
>     On 06/10/2022 11:26, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
>      > There are many bogus schemes on the internet concerned with energy
>      > generation. However, this one might possibly have a future:
>      >
>      >
>     https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article <https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article> <https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article <https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article>>
>      >
>      > KW
>      >
>      >
> 
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>     <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
> 


From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Oct  6 14:23:46 2022
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 20:23:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Wagon Wheels
In-Reply-To: <a9714313-5307-cea1-2482-525b580b7894@btinternet.com>
References: <kjpplt60283arlvle8qu8fm2.1664955697296@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<0941446f-45ee-eb93-1649-abae392608e7@btinternet.com>
	<2fae7844-c139-6661-32f7-4d599954739b@btinternet.com>
	<CAE6tP4C98GNshjr=uWT_WeAK7iwoek7s6WA_uPb=Aje42YrcAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<a9714313-5307-cea1-2482-525b580b7894@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <AFF1FC97-BE97-4535-8BB3-D6B9663CC4D1@mac.com>

But you were smaller then, Dave, so comparatively they would have seemed bigger (or not)!

Mike G



> On 6 Oct 2022, at 18:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Interesting, they do seem a lot smaller than the ones I bought in the mid-fifties, I forgot to measure one at the time! Cheers, Dave
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Oct  6 14:29:23 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 21:29:23 +0200
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
Message-ID: <4323CD0C-659F-4806-B362-F3209D9C7197@me.com>

?
I don?t know if they have fully solved the corrosion challenges with salt reactors, but there is a very timely article outlining how salt reactors might soon be deployed and cheaply too.
https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/safe-micro-nuclear-reactor-truck

Alan


> On 6 Oct 2022, at 15:17, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?
> There aren't too many technological inventions that have been on the cards for 60-70 years, and haven't  been developed in that time, that suddenly become possible. There's generally a very good reason why they don't work in a practical sense.
> 
> The corrosion issues with salt reactors has always been extremely difficult to deal with, and the processing of the highly active waste materials they produce has never ever gone well to date.
> 
> Thorium reactors do have some benefits, but also a lot of problems too. The U-232 involved is a serious gamma ray producer that makes the waste problems greater than some would like to mention. It is also an expensive generator.... and nuclear power is already about 5 times as expensive to produce as renewables.
> 
> SMRs are being pushed by RR (because they want to build them) but they too are very expensive to run - more so than large reactors - and though cheaper to build have slightly higher waste problems. Nuclear waste has never yet been dealt with completely. The single SMRs they've used in ships are a lot easier to deal with than the multiple units that a practical power station requires.
> 
> I don't think any of these have any real hope of being used extensively in the future - they are too expensive to run, and have a poor image due to justifiable worries over safety - that's why we are nail-biting over Russia's behaviour with Ukraine's reactors.
> 
> The most plausible scenario is an increase in solar, wind and (very likely tidal) energy, combined with much more storage. The use of gravity storage, flow batteries etc is far cheaper and safer than any of the nuclear options, and the technology can be put into use within far shorter time-scales. And none of that has waste problems to bite us on the bottom in future centuries.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> 
> On 06/10/2022 11:26, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
>> There are many bogus schemes on the internet concerned with energy generation. However, this one might possibly have a future:
>> 
>> https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article
>> 
>> KW
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From techtone at protonmail.com  Thu Oct  6 14:35:09 2022
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2022 19:35:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Home battery storage
In-Reply-To: <f302f944-a4a3-63d4-d74c-430696ea3d20@gmail.com>
References: <gmwktJLEDZaZ9hG1BkWp7Lqt80JKkbqEIMk3zPT_py5Kj_xI91fNQdh1WO1eC6UgRaJExLYIg_--lf9IwfXTRAOmyMg2CxVJWi9zZfesL4k=@protonmail.com>
	<f302f944-a4a3-63d4-d74c-430696ea3d20@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <hYz89MACiUPRBYjeVUWpKZx-ATAxHrzUQ1d1xh6tJY2y_aBB3d2mUOChL0LtYN2lMMDT4hrW9tHYo19swWNPqgBOd1YeTEDN7ALyr1PyNXA=@protonmail.com>

I suspect that's the battery I'm talking about. However, I already have a generator which has proved it's worth a few years ago - but it has to be outdoors, so if the power fails because of weather conditions here in the foothills of Snowdonia, trying to struggle out to get it (it's very heavy) and trying to start it (it can be a real pig to pull that cord) well with bad back, hips and knees plus arthritis, you can see that something that stays indoors and only requires switching on to get things up and running, has a real attraction.

So, apart from the stupid price, my query is - does it do what's claimed, and have any of you got one, or its equivalent?

TeaTeaFN - Tony


Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

------- Original Message -------
On Thursday, October 6th, 2022 at 19:13, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


> If you mean the approx ?1200 one, its battery is about 1.2kwh. The same
> size as a decent leisure battery in a caravan etc. With an on board
> inventor to provide 240v. Personally, for use at home, I thing a
> generator would be better value - and provided you have fuel, not time
> restricted.
> 
> On 06/10/2022 15:15, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
> 
> > Following on from the thread about energy, I have just recently come
> > across a smallish, but very expensive, portable unit for indoors (and
> > outdoors, should you so wish). It's the EcoFlow system, and I was
> > wondering if anyone here has got one, or similar, and can offer useful
> > hints, tips and recommendations.
> > 
> > From what I've gleaned from the net, it answers all my back-up needs in
> > the event of a power failure, and as well as mains charging, it can be
> > trickle charged via portable solar panel/s. Too good to be true? I look
> > forward to your input (AC or DC love).
> > 
> > TeaTeaFN - Tony
> > 
> > Sent with Proton Mail https://proton.me/ secure email.
> 
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Oct  6 15:11:49 2022
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 21:11:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Wagon Wheels
In-Reply-To: <AFF1FC97-BE97-4535-8BB3-D6B9663CC4D1@mac.com>
References: <kjpplt60283arlvle8qu8fm2.1664955697296@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<0941446f-45ee-eb93-1649-abae392608e7@btinternet.com>
	<2fae7844-c139-6661-32f7-4d599954739b@btinternet.com>
	<CAE6tP4C98GNshjr=uWT_WeAK7iwoek7s6WA_uPb=Aje42YrcAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<a9714313-5307-cea1-2482-525b580b7894@btinternet.com>
	<AFF1FC97-BE97-4535-8BB3-D6B9663CC4D1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <42988936-306e-69ef-f1a0-841aab49c43b@btinternet.com>

How true Mike, ever the wise words! Cheers, Dave


From waresound at msn.com  Thu Oct  6 15:43:15 2022
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 20:43:15 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wagon Wheels
In-Reply-To: <a9714313-5307-cea1-2482-525b580b7894@btinternet.com>
References: <kjpplt60283arlvle8qu8fm2.1664955697296@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<0941446f-45ee-eb93-1649-abae392608e7@btinternet.com>
	<2fae7844-c139-6661-32f7-4d599954739b@btinternet.com>
	<CAE6tP4C98GNshjr=uWT_WeAK7iwoek7s6WA_uPb=Aje42YrcAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<a9714313-5307-cea1-2482-525b580b7894@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB16048689254E4326FCD3B924A75C9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

They look smaller because you got bigger, Dave xx

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

> On 6 Oct 2022, at 18:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Interesting, they do seem a lot smaller than the ones I bought in the mid-fifties, I forgot to measure one at the time! Cheers, Dave
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From waresound at msn.com  Thu Oct  6 15:48:23 2022
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 20:48:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wagon Wheels
In-Reply-To: <42988936-306e-69ef-f1a0-841aab49c43b@btinternet.com>
References: <kjpplt60283arlvle8qu8fm2.1664955697296@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<0941446f-45ee-eb93-1649-abae392608e7@btinternet.com>
	<2fae7844-c139-6661-32f7-4d599954739b@btinternet.com>
	<CAE6tP4C98GNshjr=uWT_WeAK7iwoek7s6WA_uPb=Aje42YrcAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<a9714313-5307-cea1-2482-525b580b7894@btinternet.com>
	<AFF1FC97-BE97-4535-8BB3-D6B9663CC4D1@mac.com>
	<42988936-306e-69ef-f1a0-841aab49c43b@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB1604EEFCB360439EC153CA2DA75C9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Oh bums, I should have read Mike?s before sending mine!

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

> On 6 Oct 2022, at 21:12, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?How true Mike, ever the wise words! Cheers, Dave
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Oct  6 17:33:43 2022
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 23:33:43 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: What you see affects what you hear
References: <B4E1AB6D-24AC-40E8-AA95-44BE57600B73@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D9E9693A-3A2D-4C6E-BA41-97752C508466@mac.com>

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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 17:54:14 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 23:54:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: What you see affects what you hear
In-Reply-To: <D9E9693A-3A2D-4C6E-BA41-97752C508466@mac.com>
References: <B4E1AB6D-24AC-40E8-AA95-44BE57600B73@mac.com>
	<D9E9693A-3A2D-4C6E-BA41-97752C508466@mac.com>
Message-ID: <b01a9976-9acd-4be3-6640-a095f336123c@gmail.com>

I listen to drama most days on R4. Can't really remember thinking "I 
can't quite understand what was said there" unlike quite a lot of TV. 
Perhaps they use difference actors?

On 06/10/2022 23:33, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
> A friend sent me this today and it absolutely confirms my view as to why 
> so much almost unintelligible speech gets through the editing and 
> dubbing processes without anyone noticing that Joe Public is at the 
> major disadvantage of neither having a script in front of them, nor 
> being familiar with the dialogue. It would be interesting to try playing 
> a mumbled Shakespeare play to a group which includes people very 
> familiar with the work and some who have never heard much of it before. 
> (I doubt that there?s anyone who doesn?t know the odd quotation.)
> 
> Mike G
>>>
>>> A Dramatic Demonstration of the Power of Mental Frames | Simon Singh 
>>> <https://simonsingh.net/media/online-videos/maths-and-science/a-dramatic-demonstration-of-the-power-of-mental-frames/>
>>>
>>> 	
>>>
>>> 	
>>>
>>>
>>>     A Dramatic Demonstration of the Power of Mental Frames | Simon Singh
>>>
>>> <https://simonsingh.net/media/online-videos/maths-and-science/a-dramatic-demonstration-of-the-power-of-mental-frames/>
>>>
>>>
> 


From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com  Fri Oct  7 01:10:49 2022
From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 07:10:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <4323CD0C-659F-4806-B362-F3209D9C7197@me.com>
References: <4323CD0C-659F-4806-B362-F3209D9C7197@me.com>
Message-ID: <2564ED4D-B766-4604-97DC-F4ABA22C0BEC@icloud.com>

Coincidentally I?ve just spent a day in the largest salt mine in the UK - an amazing place near Warrington and multi use nowadays - mining and storage.
Not sure how my equipment will fare with all the salt that was in the air however.

Graham Maunder



Sent from my iPhone 

> On 6 Oct 2022, at 20:30, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> ?
> I don?t know if they have fully solved the corrosion challenges with salt reactors, but there is a very timely article outlining how salt reactors might soon be deployed and cheaply too.
> https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/safe-micro-nuclear-reactor-truck
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
>>> On 6 Oct 2022, at 15:17, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> There aren't too many technological inventions that have been on the cards for 60-70 years, and haven't  been developed in that time, that suddenly become possible. There's generally a very good reason why they don't work in a practical sense.
>> 
>> The corrosion issues with salt reactors has always been extremely difficult to deal with, and the processing of the highly active waste materials they produce has never ever gone well to date.
>> 
>> Thorium reactors do have some benefits, but also a lot of problems too. The U-232 involved is a serious gamma ray producer that makes the waste problems greater than some would like to mention. It is also an expensive generator.... and nuclear power is already about 5 times as expensive to produce as renewables.
>> 
>> SMRs are being pushed by RR (because they want to build them) but they too are very expensive to run - more so than large reactors - and though cheaper to build have slightly higher waste problems. Nuclear waste has never yet been dealt with completely. The single SMRs they've used in ships are a lot easier to deal with than the multiple units that a practical power station requires.
>> 
>> I don't think any of these have any real hope of being used extensively in the future - they are too expensive to run, and have a poor image due to justifiable worries over safety - that's why we are nail-biting over Russia's behaviour with Ukraine's reactors.
>> 
>> The most plausible scenario is an increase in solar, wind and (very likely tidal) energy, combined with much more storage. The use of gravity storage, flow batteries etc is far cheaper and safer than any of the nuclear options, and the technology can be put into use within far shorter time-scales. And none of that has waste problems to bite us on the bottom in future centuries.
>> 
>> Chris Woolf
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 06/10/2022 11:26, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
>>> There are many bogus schemes on the internet concerned with energy generation. However, this one might possibly have a future:
>>> 
>>> https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article
>>> 
>>> KW
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From doug at puddifoot.me  Fri Oct  7 04:12:24 2022
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2022 10:12:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Has April 1st come early
Message-ID: <ssn9xs4ak9elhvwwjrh2yus5.1665133944926@email.android.com>

https://www.hackster.io/news/google-s-gboard-bar-is-the-keyboard-of-the-future-0b804e639f31?mc_cid=021416b7a9&mc_eid=c637629d19

On 7 October 2022, at 07:10, Graham Maunder via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

Coincidentally I?ve just spent a day in the largest salt mine in the UK - an amazing place near Warrington and multi use nowadays - mining and storage.

Not sure how my equipment will fare with all the salt that was in the air however.


Graham Maunder


?

Sent from my iPhone?


On 6 Oct 2022, at 20:30, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

?

I don?t know if they have fully solved the corrosion challenges with salt reactors, but there is a very timely article outlining how salt reactors might soon be deployed and cheaply too.

https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/safe-micro-nuclear-reactor-truck


Alan



On 6 Oct 2022, at 15:17, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? 

There aren't too many technological inventions that have been on the cards for 60-70 years, and haven't? been developed in that time, that suddenly become possible. There's generally a very good reason why they don't work in a practical sense.

The corrosion issues with salt reactors has always been extremely difficult to deal with, and the processing of the highly active waste materials they produce has never ever gone well to date.

Thorium reactors do have some benefits, but also a lot of problems too. The U-232 involved is a serious gamma ray producer that makes the waste problems greater than some would like to mention. It is also an expensive generator.... and nuclear power is already about 5 times as expensive to produce as renewables.

SMRs are being pushed by RR (because they want to build them) but they too are very expensive to run - more so than large reactors - and though cheaper to build have slightly higher waste problems. Nuclear waste has never yet been dealt with completely. The single SMRs they've used in ships are a lot easier to deal with than the multiple units that a practical power station requires.

I don't think any of these have any real hope of being used extensively in the future - they are too expensive to run, and have a poor image due to justifiable worries over safety - that's why we are nail-biting over Russia's behaviour with Ukraine's reactors.

The most plausible scenario is an increase in solar, wind and (very likely tidal) energy, combined with much more storage. The use of gravity storage, flow batteries etc is far cheaper and safer than any of the nuclear options, and the technology can be put into use within far shorter time-scales. And none of that has waste problems to bite us on the bottom in future centuries.

Chris Woolf


On 06/10/2022 11:26, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:

There are many bogus schemes on the internet concerned with energy generation. However, this one might possibly have a future:


https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/05/micro_molten_salt_reactor/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_content=top-article


KW



-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 04:16:12 2022
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 10:16:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] View - old technology and how it was used
In-Reply-To: <d8159850-eaa0-7e44-cedc-5d78eece9c3c@gmail.com>
References: <71949dc9-f30f-8d92-8eee-c9aa14ef2c98@gmail.com>
	<d8159850-eaa0-7e44-cedc-5d78eece9c3c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53b241fe-91e7-3bed-0e46-fb1111b69259@gmail.com>

Hi all (and particularly Bernie!)

On 06/10/2022 16:30, Bernard Newnham wrote:
> The Marconi was obviously the best camera by far. I said "You didn't 
> have to operate them",

Sorry!

Only read the full article later....

The author is part of Golden Age TV, who rent out working vintage 
equipment to media companies.? It's clear that he hasn't got a working 
EMI 2001 and so can't rent one out.

Perhaps if he had some working EMI 2001s his story might be different!


I left the Beeb before the advent of the EMI 2001, but from what you all 
have told me, I would have loved to have had a go with one!


Best regards,

Alec



-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Oct  7 04:41:34 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 10:41:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] View - old technology and how it was used
In-Reply-To: <53b241fe-91e7-3bed-0e46-fb1111b69259@gmail.com>
References: <71949dc9-f30f-8d92-8eee-c9aa14ef2c98@gmail.com>
	<d8159850-eaa0-7e44-cedc-5d78eece9c3c@gmail.com>
	<53b241fe-91e7-3bed-0e46-fb1111b69259@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <03882ed6-2f48-ef23-8986-4b6cdc81f8d4@amps.net>

Is there one at Bradford? (now called The National Science and Media 
Museum).

Pat H

On 07/10/2022 10:16, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Hi all (and particularly Bernie!)
>
> On 06/10/2022 16:30, Bernard Newnham wrote:
>> The Marconi was obviously the best camera by far. I said "You didn't 
>> have to operate them",
>
> Sorry!
>
> Only read the full article later....
>
> The author is part of Golden Age TV, who rent out working vintage 
> equipment to media companies.? It's clear that he hasn't got a working 
> EMI 2001 and so can't rent one out.
>
> Perhaps if he had some working EMI 2001s his story might be different!
>
>
> I left the Beeb before the advent of the EMI 2001, but from what you 
> all have told me, I would have loved to have had a go with one!
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Alec
>
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 05:52:42 2022
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 11:52:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] View - old technology and how it was used
In-Reply-To: <03882ed6-2f48-ef23-8986-4b6cdc81f8d4@amps.net>
References: <71949dc9-f30f-8d92-8eee-c9aa14ef2c98@gmail.com>
	<d8159850-eaa0-7e44-cedc-5d78eece9c3c@gmail.com>
	<53b241fe-91e7-3bed-0e46-fb1111b69259@gmail.com>
	<03882ed6-2f48-ef23-8986-4b6cdc81f8d4@amps.net>
Message-ID: <24831414-f9a8-680c-bae0-f7cd0ef83600@gmail.com>

Hi Pat et al,

This is the EMI 2001 at Bradford The National Science and Media Museum 
in 2015.


Doesn't look like it is in a "go" state!

Best regards,

Alec



-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502
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From waresound at msn.com  Fri Oct  7 06:32:31 2022
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 11:32:31 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] View - old technology and how it was used
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB1604F39E6E857AAF465C3C0CA75F9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

?
Nerd alert!  - - - ?I was never a cameraman as such, but:
?Better? and ?best? have no value if they are based only on personal preference or opinion.
Two things about the EMI 2001 set it above the rest as I see it:
1 - it was a four tube camera, the fourth being a luminance channel which, when matrixed with the heavily filtered RGB components, increased overall sensitivity and reduced chroma component noise, particularly that of the (higher gain) red channel. I remember reading about this at the time.
2 - By placing the prism assembly and tubes at the rear of the camera body and having the lens focal plane at the rear, that placed the optical axis [*] as near as dammit over the centre point of the pan-tilt head. And that meant that a pan was truly a pan, and not a swing, thus simulating more realistically a human head turn. I don?t know about you guys, but when I look to the left or right, my head and eyes stay pretty much in the same place, and that?s ideally what a camera needs to be able to do!
[*] the lens? internal optical crossover point, typically where the iris would be.
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

On 7 Oct 2022, at 10:16, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

Hi all (and particularly Bernie!)

On 06/10/2022 16:30, Bernard Newnham wrote:
The Marconi was obviously the best camera by far. I said "You didn't have to operate them"!

Only read the full article later....

The author is part of Golden Age TV, who rent out working vintage equipment to media companies.  It's clear that he hasn't got a working EMI 2001 and so can't rent one out.

Perhaps if he had some working EMI 2001s his story might be different!


I left the Beeb before the advent of the EMI 2001, but from what you all have told me, I would have loved to have had a go with one!


Best regards,

Alec



--
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com<mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502

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From rndgilbey at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Oct  7 06:46:00 2022
From: rndgilbey at yahoo.co.uk (Nick Gilbey)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 12:46:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] View - old technology and how it was used
References: <2EF46620-B82B-4E6B-9A27-E1EBB6458A70.ref@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2EF46620-B82B-4E6B-9A27-E1EBB6458A70@yahoo.co.uk>

?Paul Marshall worked for Marconi. I once said toPaul that  the EMI 2001 camera was popular and got the same sort of reply as Bernie. Nick Gilbey 

Sent from my iPhone



Sent from my iPhone
> On 7 Oct 2022, at 12:33, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?
> ?
> Nerd alert!  - - - ?I was never a cameraman as such, but:
> ?Better? and ?best? have no value if they are based only on personal preference or opinion.
> Two things about the EMI 2001 set it above the rest as I see it:
> 1 - it was a four tube camera, the fourth being a luminance channel which, when matrixed with the heavily filtered RGB components, increased overall sensitivity and reduced chroma component noise, particularly that of the (higher gain) red channel. I remember reading about this at the time.
> 2 - By placing the prism assembly and tubes at the rear of the camera body and having the lens focal plane at the rear, that placed the optical axis [*] as near as dammit over the centre point of the pan-tilt head. And that meant that a pan was truly a pan, and not a swing, thus simulating more realistically a human head turn. I don?t know about you guys, but when I look to the left or right, my head and eyes stay pretty much in the same place, and that?s ideally what a camera needs to be able to do!
> [*] the lens? internal optical crossover point, typically where the iris would be.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> 
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 7 Oct 2022, at 10:16, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> ?
>> Hi all (and particularly Bernie!)
>> 
>> On 06/10/2022 16:30, Bernard Newnham wrote:
>>> The Marconi was obviously the best camera by far. I said "You didn't have to operate them"!  
>> Only read the full article later....
>> 
>> The author is part of Golden Age TV, who rent out working vintage equipment to media companies.  It's clear that he hasn't got a working EMI 2001 and so can't rent one out. 
>> 
>> Perhaps if he had some working EMI 2001s his story might be different!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I left the Beeb before the advent of the EMI 2001, but from what you all have told me, I would have loved to have had a go with one!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Alec
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> =======
>> 
>> Alec Bray
>> 
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> Mob:  07789 561 346
>> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

Sent from my iPhone

> On 7 Oct 2022, at 12:33, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?
> ?
> Nerd alert!  - - - ?I was never a cameraman as such, but:
> ?Better? and ?best? have no value if they are based only on personal preference or opinion.
> Two things about the EMI 2001 set it above the rest as I see it:
> 1 - it was a four tube camera, the fourth being a luminance channel which, when matrixed with the heavily filtered RGB components, increased overall sensitivity and reduced chroma component noise, particularly that of the (higher gain) red channel. I remember reading about this at the time.
> 2 - By placing the prism assembly and tubes at the rear of the camera body and having the lens focal plane at the rear, that placed the optical axis [*] as near as dammit over the centre point of the pan-tilt head. And that meant that a pan was truly a pan, and not a swing, thus simulating more realistically a human head turn. I don?t know about you guys, but when I look to the left or right, my head and eyes stay pretty much in the same place, and that?s ideally what a camera needs to be able to do!
> [*] the lens? internal optical crossover point, typically where the iris would be.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> 
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 7 Oct 2022, at 10:16, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> ?
>> Hi all (and particularly Bernie!)
>> 
>> On 06/10/2022 16:30, Bernard Newnham wrote:
>>> The Marconi was obviously the best camera by far. I said "You didn't have to operate them"!  
>> Only read the full article later....
>> 
>> The author is part of Golden Age TV, who rent out working vintage equipment to media companies.  It's clear that he hasn't got a working EMI 2001 and so can't rent one out. 
>> 
>> Perhaps if he had some working EMI 2001s his story might be different!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I left the Beeb before the advent of the EMI 2001, but from what you all have told me, I would have loved to have had a go with one!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Alec
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> =======
>> 
>> Alec Bray
>> 
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> Mob:  07789 561 346
>> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Fri Oct  7 08:05:11 2022
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 14:05:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] View - old technology and how it was used
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB1604F39E6E857AAF465C3C0CA75F9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <AM9P191MB1604F39E6E857AAF465C3C0CA75F9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <413e2aa4-c27b-5098-99fd-f9911bcf8b0b@chriswoolf.co.uk>

All good and correct points, Nick.

In addition, the physical length of the camera was far shorter than a 
Marconi, allowing cameramen to stand much closer to the ped ring, and 
feel far less moment of inertia when panning and tilting.

The design was one of those brilliant bits of radical thinking. In the 
traditional camera the turret lenses were always a small addition to the 
main camera body, with its massive orthicon tube and scan coils. With 
the necessity for a permanent single (zoom) lens? - matching turret 
lenses for colour wasn't feasible - this suddenly became the major mass 
element, so making the lens the central part of the camera and sticking 
the electronics around it, was logical and "new". Marconi and Philips 
missed a trick.

Chris Woolf


On 07/10/2022 12:32, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> ?
> Nerd alert! ?- - - ?I was never a cameraman as such, but:
> ?Better? and ?best? have no value if they are based only on personal 
> preference or opinion.
> Two things about the EMI 2001 set it above the rest as I see it:
> 1 - it was a four tube camera, the fourth being a luminance channel 
> which, when matrixed with the heavily filtered RGB components, 
> increased overall sensitivity and reduced chroma component noise, 
> particularly that of the (higher gain) red channel. I remember reading 
> about this at the time.
> 2 - By placing the prism assembly and tubes at the rear of the camera 
> body and having the lens focal plane at the rear, that placed the 
> optical axis [*] as near as dammit over the centre point of the 
> pan-tilt head. And that meant that a pan was truly a pan, and not a 
> swing, thus simulating more realistically a human head turn. I don?t 
> know about you guys, but when I look to the left or right, my head and 
> eyes stay pretty much in the same place, and that?s ideally what a 
> camera needs to be able to do!
> [*] the lens? internal optical crossover point, typically where the 
> iris would be.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 7 Oct 2022, at 10:16, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Hi all (and particularly Bernie!)
>>
>> On 06/10/2022 16:30, Bernard Newnham wrote:
>>> The Marconi was obviously the best camera by far. I said "You didn't 
>>> have to operate them"! 
>>
>> Only read the full article later....
>>
>> The author is part of Golden Age TV, who rent out working vintage 
>> equipment to media companies.? It's clear that he hasn't got a 
>> working EMI 2001 and so can't rent one out.
>>
>> Perhaps if he had some working EMI 2001s his story might be different!
>>
>>
>> I left the Beeb before the advent of the EMI 2001, but from what you 
>> all have told me, I would have loved to have had a go with one!
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Alec
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> =======
>>
>> Alec Bray
>>
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> Mob:  07789 561 346
>> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 11:46:42 2022
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 17:46:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Has April 1st come early
In-Reply-To: <ssn9xs4ak9elhvwwjrh2yus5.1665133944926@email.android.com>
References: <ssn9xs4ak9elhvwwjrh2yus5.1665133944926@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJ=J5oiiKeR4f5dcxDpJxjCZn_B3a9abxgkeqK9Tz_tbfA@mail.gmail.com>

"You can even catch bugs with the handy net attachment."
At last! I've always wanted a keyboard with that facility.
KW

On Fri, 7 Oct 2022 at 10:12, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

>
> https://www.hackster.io/news/google-s-gboard-bar-is-the-keyboard-of-the-future-0b804e639f31?mc_cid=021416b7a9&mc_eid=c637629d19
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Oct  7 12:05:34 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 18:05:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Has April 1st come early
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJ=J5oiiKeR4f5dcxDpJxjCZn_B3a9abxgkeqK9Tz_tbfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ssn9xs4ak9elhvwwjrh2yus5.1665133944926@email.android.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=J5oiiKeR4f5dcxDpJxjCZn_B3a9abxgkeqK9Tz_tbfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f044fe5e-78d3-83f9-39f4-13c73202f031@amps.net>

The QWERTY keyboard was configured so that all of touch typists' fingers 
would land on the keys of letters most used.

(If you type COVID, do you catch that??)

Pat

On 07/10/2022 17:46, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
> "You can even catch bugs with the handy net attachment."
> At last! I've always wanted a keyboard with that facility.
> KW
>
> On Fri, 7 Oct 2022 at 10:12, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>     https://www.hackster.io/news/google-s-gboard-bar-is-the-keyboard-of-the-future-0b804e639f31?mc_cid=021416b7a9&mc_eid=c637629d19
>     <https://www.hackster.io/news/google-s-gboard-bar-is-the-keyboard-of-the-future-0b804e639f31?mc_cid=021416b7a9&mc_eid=c637629d19>
>
>
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From waresound at msn.com  Fri Oct  7 12:10:01 2022
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 17:10:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Has April 1st come early
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJ=J5oiiKeR4f5dcxDpJxjCZn_B3a9abxgkeqK9Tz_tbfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ssn9xs4ak9elhvwwjrh2yus5.1665133944926@email.android.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=J5oiiKeR4f5dcxDpJxjCZn_B3a9abxgkeqK9Tz_tbfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB160409692F1F1DDACE45A022A75F9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

You?re brave! I assumed that because that link came with no message, Doug?s email address had been hacked into.
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

On 7 Oct 2022, at 17:54, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
"You can even catch bugs with the handy net attachment."
At last! I've always wanted a keyboard with that facility.
KW

On Fri, 7 Oct 2022 at 10:12, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

https://www.hackster.io/news/google-s-gboard-bar-is-the-keyboard-of-the-future-0b804e639f31?mc_cid=021416b7a9&mc_eid=c637629d19


--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Oct  7 12:48:31 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 18:48:31 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <2564ED4D-B766-4604-97DC-F4ABA22C0BEC@icloud.com>
References: <4323CD0C-659F-4806-B362-F3209D9C7197@me.com>
	<2564ED4D-B766-4604-97DC-F4ABA22C0BEC@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <049cb33e-8627-2c19-2554-754ddcf47e20@amps.net>

Amazing Graham! I've taken the tour of the salt mines outside Saltzberg 
which of course gives the city its name.

But you mention 'mining'. I was transiting the then new air terminal in 
Munich, and because it coincided with a G8 conference,
the security checks were upgraded and the Betacam was spirited away to 
be swabbed for explosives.
I hoped that the rental camera hadn't been previously employed in a 
quarry where mining explosives were being used
and residue might have found its way onto the camera. What would have 
happened to us if positive
- taken into a small room and beaten with rubber truncheons?

Pat H

On 07/10/2022 07:10, Graham Maunder via Tech1 wrote:
> Coincidentally I?ve just spent a day in the largest salt mine in the 
> UK - an amazing place near Warrington and multi use nowadays - mining 
> and storage.
> Not sure how my equipment will fare with all the salt that was in the 
> air however.
>
> Graham Maunder
>
> ?(whichimage0.jpeg
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Fri Oct  7 13:17:27 2022
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2022 19:17:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Has April 1st come early
In-Reply-To: <f044fe5e-78d3-83f9-39f4-13c73202f031@amps.net>
References: <ssn9xs4ak9elhvwwjrh2yus5.1665133944926@email.android.com>	<CAA=qGJ=J5oiiKeR4f5dcxDpJxjCZn_B3a9abxgkeqK9Tz_tbfA@mail.gmail.com>
	<f044fe5e-78d3-83f9-39f4-13c73202f031@amps.net>
Message-ID: <000201d8da79$0f3b6b80$2db24280$@gmail.com>

Mostly it was laid out so with relatively quick typing the letter strike levers did not tangle

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Pat Heigham via Tech1
Sent: 07 October 2022 18:06
To: Keith Wicks <keithwicksuk at gmail.com>; Doug Puddifoot <doug at puddifoot.me>
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Has April 1st come early

 

The QWERTY keyboard was configured so that all of touch typists' fingers would land on the keys of letters most used.

(If you type COVID, do you catch that??)

Pat

On 07/10/2022 17:46, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:

"You can even catch bugs with the handy net attachment."

At last! I've always wanted a keyboard with that facility.

KW

 

On Fri, 7 Oct 2022 at 10:12, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

https://www.hackster.io/news/google-s-gboard-bar-is-the-keyboard-of-the-future-0b804e639f31?mc_cid=021416b7a9 <https://www.hackster.io/news/google-s-gboard-bar-is-the-keyboard-of-the-future-0b804e639f31?mc_cid=021416b7a9&mc_eid=c637629d19> &mc_eid=c637629d19

 





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From techtone at protonmail.com  Fri Oct  7 15:11:47 2022
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2022 20:11:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] View - old technology and how it was used
In-Reply-To: <413e2aa4-c27b-5098-99fd-f9911bcf8b0b@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <AM9P191MB1604F39E6E857AAF465C3C0CA75F9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<413e2aa4-c27b-5098-99fd-f9911bcf8b0b@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Am8W_J9Zi75_OBE0um1x48L_9SoDUOzt2DSG-wdJqKmR04FYa2nuNrnDBW7YHxV3HMEvYPeXEXXF8Hfq8aM9EekRh3U5qPd5ZvXpA3404Ok=@protonmail.com>

My favourite camera from an operational POV was the EMI 301 with the 4 TTH lens turret, however I agree that the 2001 was THE colour camera of its generation. But there were quirks of which not all of you here may be aware.

I was caught out during a particularly complex crab/track pan/zoom on an episode of The Onedin Line during rehearsal, following the movement of two if the major protagonists wandering back and forth in the captain's cabin. Completely befuddled as to why the camera pan/zoom seemed to counteract my crabbing and tracking I took the camera to one side after the scene, locked it off, and zoomed in and out. Lo and behold, the picture didn't zoom straight in and out, but skewed off to one side. The camera had not been lined up along the optical axis, but off to one side of the image target!

Shouts and cries of rage and storming off upstairs to find out which engineering joker was responsible, and why. The answer? The camera had been lined up on the 'cleanest' part of the target, which was obviously not near its centre. After much argument and stamping of feet, I managed to reach a slight compromise, which marginally lessened the off-axis line up (they refused to change the tube/s) but it was still a dodgy shot with the movement, and I wasn't overly happy with the recorded result.

Prior to the 2001, I very much liked the PC60s which we had in Pres and thought their colourimetry was preferable to the 2001 for the majority of programme material. They were almost the same size as the 301, and just as easily operated, albeit with a zoom lens as opposed to a turret. The least said about the Marconi the better, and later on I thought the Link was ok. However, having been involved in its evaluation before installation, and giving it the green light, I was horrified to find that the production run incorporated an exceptionally inferior Schneider lens to the one on the pre-production model I tried.

Ah well, some you win, plenty you lose!

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.

------- Original Message -------
On Friday, October 7th, 2022 at 14:05, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> All good and correct points, Nick.
>
> In addition, the physical length of the camera was far shorter than a Marconi, allowing cameramen to stand much closer to the ped ring, and feel far less moment of inertia when panning and tilting.
>
> The design was one of those brilliant bits of radical thinking. In the traditional camera the turret lenses were always a small addition to the main camera body, with its massive orthicon tube and scan coils. With the necessity for a permanent single (zoom) lens - matching turret lenses for colour wasn't feasible - this suddenly became the major mass element, so making the lens the central part of the camera and sticking the electronics around it, was logical and "new". Marconi and Philips missed a trick.
>
> Chris Woolf
>
> On 07/10/2022 12:32, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>
>> ?
>> Nerd alert! - - - ?I was never a cameraman as such, but:
>> ?Better? and ?best? have no value if they are based only on personal preference or opinion.
>> Two things about the EMI 2001 set it above the rest as I see it:
>> 1 - it was a four tube camera, the fourth being a luminance channel which, when matrixed with the heavily filtered RGB components, increased overall sensitivity and reduced chroma component noise, particularly that of the (higher gain) red channel. I remember reading about this at the time.
>> 2 - By placing the prism assembly and tubes at the rear of the camera body and having the lens focal plane at the rear, that placed the optical axis [*] as near as dammit over the centre point of the pan-tilt head. And that meant that a pan was truly a pan, and not a swing, thus simulating more realistically a human head turn. I don?t know about you guys, but when I look to the left or right, my head and eyes stay pretty much in the same place, and that?s ideally what a camera needs to be able to do!
>> [*] the lens? internal optical crossover point, typically where the iris would be.
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>>
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On 7 Oct 2022, at 10:16, Alec Bray via Tech1 [<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>](mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk) wrote:
>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Hi all (and particularly Bernie!)
>>>
>>> On 06/10/2022 16:30, Bernard Newnham wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Marconi was obviously the best camera by far. I said "You didn't have to operate them"!
>>>
>>> Only read the full article later....
>>>
>>> The author is part of Golden Age TV, who rent out working vintage equipment to media companies. It's clear that he hasn't got a working EMI 2001 and so can't rent one out.
>>>
>>> Perhaps if he had some working EMI 2001s his story might be different!
>>>
>>> I left the Beeb before the advent of the EMI 2001, but from what you all have told me, I would have loved to have had a go with one!
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Alec
>>>
>>> --
>>> =======
>>>
>>> Alec Bray
>>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>>> Mob:  07789 561 346
>>> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From doug at puddifoot.me  Sat Oct  8 04:11:24 2022
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2022 10:11:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Has April 1st come early
Message-ID: <rhfl6a84d7tfcdq9lobl9db3.1665220284685@email.android.com>

No hacking, I just thought  the heading said it all

Doug

On 7 October 2022, at 18:10, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

You?re brave! I assumed that because that link came with no message, Doug?s email address had been hacked into. 

Cheers,

Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad


On 7 Oct 2022, at 17:54, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? 

"You can even catch bugs with the handy net attachment."

At last! I've always wanted a keyboard with that facility.

KW


On Fri, 7 Oct 2022 at 10:12, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

https://www.hackster.io/news/google-s-gboard-bar-is-the-keyboard-of-the-future-0b804e639f31?mc_cid=021416b7a9&mc_eid=c637629d19

?

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From waresound at msn.com  Sat Oct  8 06:54:58 2022
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 11:54:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Has April 1st come early
In-Reply-To: <rhfl6a84d7tfcdq9lobl9db3.1665220284685@email.android.com>
References: <rhfl6a84d7tfcdq9lobl9db3.1665220284685@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB1604C595B4529A1A73FA9E42A75E9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Just for your interest (nor not!), Doug, my msn email address, which normally sends anything that isn?t tech1 at tech-ops to the junk folder, had sent yours to junk with a few others that we?re obvious spam messages. This is almost certainly because there was no message, just a very long web link beginning with the word ?hackster?. It had all the hallmarks of a spam, possibly malicious, email.
By the way, is there a Tony Scott here? That?s a name that crops up in my msn junk quite regularly, masquerading as tech-ops.
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

On 8 Oct 2022, at 10:12, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

No hacking, I just thought  the heading said it all

Doug


On 7 October 2022, at 18:10, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


You?re brave! I assumed that because that link came with no message, Doug?s email address had been hacked into.
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

On 7 Oct 2022, at 17:54, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

?
"You can even catch bugs with the handy net attachment."
At last! I've always wanted a keyboard with that facility.
KW

On Fri, 7 Oct 2022 at 10:12, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

https://www.hackster.io/news/google-s-gboard-bar-is-the-keyboard-of-the-future-0b804e639f31?mc_cid=021416b7a9&mc_eid=c637629d19


--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk  Sat Oct  8 09:33:21 2022
From: robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk (Robert Miles)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 15:33:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Archives
Message-ID: <000b01d8db22$ece6cf70$c6b46e50$@soundsuper.co.uk>

Interesting article -
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/oct/08/inside-bbc-archive-100-years

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From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 10:22:16 2022
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 16:22:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps! & Tuck Shop
In-Reply-To: <5D2AD24D-0C61-490B-84FC-9ADF2B977B4B@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <kjpplt60283arlvle8qu8fm2.1664955697296@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<C4D14541-006F-49A8-899A-483CCC4FA3CF@mac.com>
	<5D2AD24D-0C61-490B-84FC-9ADF2B977B4B@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJnzFdHCRWJ_-dSKeViPCds7a_VS8teXp07kuuKjfTQ-6g@mail.gmail.com>

I do like a good crisp (or two), so I'll be trying to sample the brands
recommended here. So far, I've found only Tyrrell's ordinary crisps. I
decided to go for the Cheese and Onion flavour which, in this case, is
given the name Mature Cheddar and Chive. But I could detect no flavour at
all, apart from saltiness. I asked my wife for her opinion, and she said
that they had no flavour. She couldn't even taste the saltiness, although
she normally has less salt on her food than I do. The good thing about
these crisps was their freshness. But 0/10 for flavour.

My favourite crisps at the moment are (The Real) McCoy's, ridge cut, and
the flavour now called Cheddar & Onion (I think it used to be called
Cheddar & Spring Onion). Getting the flavour right seems to be a rather hit
and miss affair. When the firm was sold to KP Snacks, a label proclaimed
something like "a great new flavour", but there was no noticeable flavour
at all. Over many months, the situation gradually improved, although the
flavour is still not as strong as it once was. By the way, I see that KP
also produce Tyrrell's ordinary and Furrows crisps.

My lest favourite brand of crisps is Walkers.

KW

On Wed, 5 Oct 2022 at 09:47, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> My school tuckshop dispensed its wares from a hatch in the side of an old
> army hut in the junior playground. Nothing like sipping a mug of hot Oxo
> during Break on a cold Winter morning! I'll add Refreshers to your list
> Mike.
>
> Hibou.
>


> On 5 Oct 2022, at 08:45, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
> The mention of Wagon Wheels reminded me of penny chews, black jacks at
> four for a penny, I fancy, and sherbet fizz.
>
> Mike G
>
> On 5 Oct 2022, at 08:42, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-opsco.uk
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> Seabrook s Chrisps are my favorite One of the few independent makers in
> the UK that are left. Made in West Yorkshire.
>
> Walkers appear to have a deal with most big supermarkets that either they
> will not stock other brands or that they are not near the Walkers display?
>
> I have found Seabrook in a few ASDA stores.
> Give them a try if you spot them. Maybe it's just because I had them as a
> Child it's my preference.?
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Paul Thackray
>
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>
> 07802 243979 <07802243979>
>
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>
> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
> *From:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Sent:* 4 October 2022 21:29
> *To:* techtone at protonmail.com
> *Reply to:* alawrance1 at me.com
> *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Crisps!
>
> They may not be as good as your NI crisps, Tony, but we're very fond of
> Tyrells Furrows.
>
> Not widely available but usually at Waitrose. Their 'ordinary' ones are
> OK, but Furrows are better.
>
> Alasdair Lawrance
>
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>
>
>
> On 4 Oct 2022, at 20:48, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?
> I have just returned from the Emerald Isle, and whilst there have
> discovered THE potato crisps. Made in Tandragee, they are Tayto Craft
> Crisps, exactly what crisps should be. Tayto crisps have been made here for
> well over 60 years, and their bog-standard crisps are available throughout
> the province, and quite adequate as ordinary crisps go, but these craft
> ones, oh yum, scrunch, chomp (especially washed down with a pint of
> Guinness!). Oh dear, they're not yet available here, but I have a postal
> service, courtesy of my sister in Belfast, whenever I'm running low. Eat
> your hearts out you lesser mortals.
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/> secure email.
>
> ------- Original Message -------
>         On Tuesday, October 4th, 2022 at 14:05, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Not a moan - but what's Pat wittering on about, now!
>
> Having got a Co-op offer of money off Walkers Crisps, I'm reminded that
> they are now 'ready salted'.
> Remember when Smiths crisps used to have the salt in a little blue twist
> of paper, then a square
> packet, so one could add salt or not.
>
> I hadn't seen Smiths on the shelves for ages, but here's the expanation:
>
> Smiths was later owned by biscuit company Nabisco
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabisco>, and finally sold to American
> company PepsiCo <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PepsiCo> in the 1990s.
> Subsequently, Pepsico withdrew the brand, in favour of popular British
> brand Walkers <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkers_%28snack_foods%29>,
> which had been heavily marketed in a campaign using former England
> international footballer turned television presenter Gary Lineker
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Lineker>. Many of the products
> previously owned by Smith's became labelled as Walkers, such as Quavers
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quavers>.
> Current Smiths brands include Smiths Crisps, Frazzles, Chipsticks, Snaps
> and Savoury Selection (Bacon Fries and Scampi Fries).
>
> My school tuckshop stocked crisps, but the bullies used to creep up behind
> you and scrunch up the packet, rendering the crisps to a shower of bits.
> I was good at boxing but never dared retaliate, as they 'woz bigger than
> me'!
>
> Pat H
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 10:32:07 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 16:32:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Archives
In-Reply-To: <000b01d8db22$ece6cf70$c6b46e50$@soundsuper.co.uk>
References: <000b01d8db22$ece6cf70$c6b46e50$@soundsuper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3ddf14a1-bd68-c3d1-ce6f-62fc19879816@gmail.com>

Do we get the impression that they digitise from a Steenbeck?

I'd like to get hold of the Romeo and Juliet that I worked on in 1967. 
This one https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/5030779c038845a591a1eb8f14ec0954? . 
Jim Atkinson said to his cable basher, me - "You can do this one". It 
turned out that I could be in John Christie's shot along some cloisters, 
or John Cavacuiti's shot down some stairs.? I have seen it again, long 
ago, on a Steenbeck, but I'd happily pay the fee to see it again. I 
don't think I qualify though.

B



On 08/10/2022 15:33, Robert Miles via Tech1 wrote:
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/oct/08/inside-bbc-archive-100-years
>
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 10:48:27 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 16:48:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Disorganised
Message-ID: <e8d6f728-bb4d-32ad-7d51-ca6cf44135bb@gmail.com>

Geoff Hawkes has pointed out to me that it's been quite a long time, and 
he's right. I have various excuses, but they aren't terribly important.

So - Friday October 21st from 1200 at the Horniman's at Hays Galleria. 
For those who haven't been before (Janice), it's here -
https://what3words.com/goad.text.waddle - a short walk from London 
Bridge main line and Tube, Jubilee and Northern. It has it's own bus 
stop - 47,343,381. You can't get much more convenient, and if you travel 
into Waterloo you can get a London Terminals ticket and route via 
Waterloo East.

Of course, if someone invents a strike it's all off.?? Get there early - 
booking costs money these days, but if we're there at 1200 or before 
there's usually plenty of space.

cheers - look forward to seeing you all.

B
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 11:27:42 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 17:27:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] SciFi Exhibition
Message-ID: <0aa939d5-3add-dcfe-915d-4c729cb4a390@gmail.com>

Mr Hawkes also points out an exhibition at the Science Museum - 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5YpW2fAV-4&t=11s . Geoff was wondering 
about a day out, in the same way that we went to the RAF Museum. 
Certainly a day trip to the Science Museum would be fun, especially if 
you haven't been for a long time. Slight problem with the exhibition, in 
that you have book and pay for a time slot.

Maybe we could pick a date - say 1130 on the Xth November, then try 
booking in the same hour slot.

Apart from Geoff and I, is anyone interested?

B
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 11:28:37 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 17:28:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] SciFi Exhibition
Message-ID: <811c232c-40ae-3097-3a74-00fc4ae4fb66@gmail.com>

Mr Hawkes also points out an exhibition at the Science Museum - 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5YpW2fAV-4&t=11s . Geoff was wondering 
about a day out, in the same way that we went to the RAF Museum. 
Certainly a day trip to the Science Museum would be fun, especially if 
you haven't been for a long time. Slight problem with the exhibition, in 
that you have book and pay for a time slot.

Maybe we could pick a date - say 1130 on the Xth November, then try 
booking in the same hour slot.

Apart from Geoff and I, is anyone interested?

B
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sat Oct  8 14:50:25 2022
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 20:50:25 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Origin of quotation?
Message-ID: <07D5763EAACA4A4FA31D902AD3DD376F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

I?ve looked at this wall on and off for years and seeing it again today I  recalled this quotation:

One marvels not so much that it were done well but that it were done at all.

That?s my (probably imperfect) recollection of the wording, including the use of ?were? rather than ?was?. Does anyone know where the quote originated?

Barrington Court NT, South Somerset this morning:



Dave Newbitt.
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 14:56:14 2022
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 20:56:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Origin of quotation?
In-Reply-To: <07D5763EAACA4A4FA31D902AD3DD376F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <07D5763EAACA4A4FA31D902AD3DD376F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <ED9A3B64-E663-4EE4-8E33-0EC4689B9669@gmail.com>

Sounds similar to a line from the Scottish play, Act 1 Scene 7 and it may be a corruption of that uttered elsewhere,
Geoff

> On 8 Oct 2022, at 20:51, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I?ve looked at this wall on and off for years and seeing it again today I  recalled this quotation:
>  
> One marvels not so much that it were done well but that it were done at all.
>  
> That?s my (probably imperfect) recollection of the wording, including the use of ?were? rather than ?was?. Does anyone know where the quote originated?
>  
> Barrington Court NT, South Somerset this morning:
>  
> 
>  
> Dave Newbitt.
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sat Oct  8 15:19:56 2022
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2022 21:19:56 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Origin of quotation?
In-Reply-To: <ED9A3B64-E663-4EE4-8E33-0EC4689B9669@gmail.com>
References: <07D5763EAACA4A4FA31D902AD3DD376F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<ED9A3B64-E663-4EE4-8E33-0EC4689B9669@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4498E6CF-B92C-4539-81F0-2D6DB4BC4371@icloud.com>

One of the usual suspects, Oscar Wilde, Bernard Shaw or Winston Churchill, on seeing a dog being taught to walk on its hind legs.

> On 8 Oct 2022, at 20:56, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Sounds similar to a line from the Scottish play, Act 1 Scene 7 and it may be a corruption of that uttered elsewhere,
> Geoff
> 
>> On 8 Oct 2022, at 20:51, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> I?ve looked at this wall on and off for years and seeing it again today I  recalled this quotation:
>>  
>> One marvels not so much that it were done well but that it were done at all.
>>  
>> That?s my (probably imperfect) recollection of the wording, including the use of ?were? rather than ?was?. Does anyone know where the quote originated?
>>  
>> Barrington Court NT, South Somerset this morning:
>>  
>> <Pantile%20challenge[3].jpg>
>>  
>> Dave Newbitt.
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Oct  9 09:06:20 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2022 15:06:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
Message-ID: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>


Stereo Vision

This only came home to me when I was experimenting with 3D photography, 
firstly with a Viewmaster
camera (remember the little discs?) then a 35mm Stereo Realist.

Having brought in to work my home processed and mounted slides with a 
handheld viewer,
Pete Wineman the SS of the day, announced that it wouldn't be any good 
for him as he only had one eye!
(I don't know how many knew this).

But you are able to hold a driving licence with sight in only one eye
- how then do you judge distance? Wag your head from side to side?

Pat H

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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sun Oct  9 10:51:41 2022
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2022 16:51:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
Message-ID: <6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Stereo Vision
> .....
>
> But you are able to hold a driving licence with sight in only one eye
> - how then do you judge distance? Wag your head from side to side?
>
>
A great many animals have eyes pointing out of the sides of their heads, 
and have limited (or even zero) binocular vision. That particularly 
applies to ones that are preyed upon and need a wide angle of view to 
spot danger. Nonetheless, they manage to have pretty decent distance 
judgement using a variety of visual tricks. A one-eyed human isn't at 
that much of a disadvantage.

Those stereoscopic slides always amused me - it's a stereo /effect/ 
because of course it isn't real 3D. You cannot move around the scene and 
see it from a different angle. You are merely tricked into seeing a 
depth enhanced image.

The same applies to most stereo sound - it is only a direction effect, 
from a fixed viewpoint and with a distance limit of no more than the 
room dimensions. That applies to most current version of surround sound 
too. Only with full-scale wavefield synthesis does one become free to 
move around, turn at any angle, and have an image distance that extends 
beyond the room boundaries. With headphones fitted with head-trackers 
and higher order soundfield signals you can do quite well too, though 
that still has some positional limitations.

Chris Woolf

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From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 11:20:41 2022
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2022 17:20:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002e01d8dbfb$145727c0$3d057740$@gmail.com>

Pat (Colin) Tugwood, boom operator par excellence in my days at TVC was blind in one eye, I believe since birth. Used to move his head laterally a few inches when perspective was necessary. Managed extremely well.

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Chris Woolf via Tech1
Sent: 09 October 2022 16:52
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision

 

Stereo Vision 

..... 

But you are able to hold a driving licence with sight in only one eye
- how then do you judge distance? Wag your head from side to side?

 

A great many animals have eyes pointing out of the sides of their heads, and have limited (or even zero) binocular vision. That particularly applies to ones that are preyed upon and need a wide angle of view to spot danger. Nonetheless, they manage to have pretty decent distance judgement using a variety of visual tricks. A one-eyed human isn't at that much of a disadvantage.

Those stereoscopic slides always amused me - it's a stereo  effect because of course it isn't real 3D. You cannot move around the scene and see it from a different angle. You are merely tricked into seeing a depth enhanced image.

The same applies to most stereo sound - it is only a direction effect, from a fixed viewpoint and with a distance limit of no more than the room dimensions. That applies to most current version of surround sound too. Only with full-scale wavefield synthesis does one become free to move around, turn at any angle, and have an image distance that extends beyond the room boundaries. With headphones fitted with head-trackers and higher order soundfield signals you can do quite well too, though that still has some positional limitations.

Chris Woolf

 

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Oct  9 11:45:06 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2022 17:45:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <f6efde74-dc98-761e-b852-3529412baa92@amps.net>

You are absolutely right, Chris (have you ever been on Mastermind?).
Think I saw on a natural history programme, that predators have two 
forward facing eyes
 ?to accuratly focus on the target, but preyed upon animals have side 
mounted eyes to spot attack.

Also that sheep & goats have elongated irises, that when their heads are 
down, munching,
render a sharper view of possible predators.
As you say, true 3D would allow moving around the image, can this be 
done with holographic
projection?

But I enjoyed the effect of stereoscopic slides.
I had an aged aunt who had a collection of stereo photos from WW1, with 
a Victorian
viewer. I always hoped that she might bequeath them to me - but no!

Using that on a borrow, I used to construct a 'penny in the slot' device 
out of cardboard boxes, persuading
my Mum to come and view, but she had to put a penny in the slot!
Well, it was a way of boosting my pocket money!

Pat H


On 09/10/2022 16:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
> Stereo Vision
>> .....
>>
>> But you are able to hold a driving licence with sight in only one eye
>> - how then do you judge distance? Wag your head from side to side?
>>
>>
> A great many animals have eyes pointing out of the sides of their 
> heads, and have limited (or even zero) binocular vision. That 
> particularly applies to ones that are preyed upon and need a wide 
> angle of view to spot danger. Nonetheless, they manage to have pretty 
> decent distance judgement using a variety of visual tricks. A one-eyed 
> human isn't at that much of a disadvantage.
>
> Those stereoscopic slides always amused me - it's a stereo /effect/ 
> because of course it isn't real 3D. You cannot move around the scene 
> and see it from a different angle. You are merely tricked into seeing 
> a depth enhanced image.
>
> The same applies to most stereo sound - it is only a direction effect, 
> from a fixed viewpoint and with a distance limit of no more than the 
> room dimensions. That applies to most current version of surround 
> sound too. Only with full-scale wavefield synthesis does one become 
> free to move around, turn at any angle, and have an image distance 
> that extends beyond the room boundaries. With headphones fitted with 
> head-trackers and higher order soundfield signals you can do quite 
> well too, though that still has some positional limitations.
>
> Chris Woolf
>
>
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Oct  9 11:52:17 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2022 17:52:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <002e01d8dbfb$145727c0$3d057740$@gmail.com>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<002e01d8dbfb$145727c0$3d057740$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d1d21f3d-53d2-5b7d-8334-e3e7cc2503a3@amps.net>

That's brilliant - good for him!

BIsh (Adrian Bishop-Laggett) once praised me for having 'spacial 
awareness' when operating booms.

Pat H

On 09/10/2022 17:20, ohbytheway.tv--- via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Pat (Colin) Tugwood, boom operator par excellence in my days at TVC 
> was blind in one eye, I believe since birth. Used to move his head 
> laterally a few inches when perspective was necessary. Managed 
> extremely well.
>
> *From:*Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> *On Behalf Of *Chris Woolf 
> via Tech1
> *Sent:* 09 October 2022 16:52
> *To:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
>
> Stereo Vision
>
>     .....
>
>     But you are able to hold a driving licence with sight in only one eye
>     - how then do you judge distance? Wag your head from side to side?
>
>
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From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com  Sun Oct  9 13:06:44 2022
From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2022 19:06:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps! & Tuck Shop
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJnzFdHCRWJ_-dSKeViPCds7a_VS8teXp07kuuKjfTQ-6g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJnzFdHCRWJ_-dSKeViPCds7a_VS8teXp07kuuKjfTQ-6g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9B374F96-4FD4-4C18-A676-41F0469E301F@icloud.com>

Currently in Dublin!


Sent from my iPhone 

> On 8 Oct 2022, at 16:23, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I do like a good crisp (or two), so I'll be trying to sample the brands recommended here. So far, I've found only Tyrrell's ordinary crisps. I decided to go for the Cheese and Onion flavour which, in this case, is given the name Mature Cheddar and Chive. But I could detect no flavour at all, apart from saltiness. I asked my wife for her opinion, and she said that they had no flavour. She couldn't even taste the saltiness, although she normally has less salt on her food than I do. The good thing about these crisps was their freshness. But 0/10 for flavour.
> 
> My favourite crisps at the moment are (The Real) McCoy's, ridge cut, and the flavour now called Cheddar & Onion (I think it used to be called Cheddar & Spring Onion). Getting the flavour right seems to be a rather hit and miss affair. When the firm was sold to KP Snacks, a label proclaimed something like "a great new flavour", but there was no noticeable flavour at all. Over many months, the situation gradually improved, although the flavour is still not as strong as it once was. By the way, I see that KP also produce Tyrrell's ordinary and Furrows crisps.
> 
> My lest favourite brand of crisps is Walkers.
> 
> KW
> 
>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2022 at 09:47, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> My school tuckshop dispensed its wares from a hatch in the side of an old army hut in the junior playground. Nothing like sipping a mug of hot Oxo during Break on a cold Winter morning! I'll add Refreshers to your list Mike.
>> 
>> Hibou.
>  
>> On 5 Oct 2022, at 08:45, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> The mention of Wagon Wheels reminded me of penny chews, black jacks at four for a penny, I fancy, and sherbet fizz.
>>> Mike G
>>>>> On 5 Oct 2022, at 08:42, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-opsco.uk> wrote:
>>>> Seabrook s Chrisps are my favorite One of the few independent makers in the UK that are left. Made in West Yorkshire. 
>>>> 
>>>> Walkers appear to have a deal with most big supermarkets that either they will not stock other brands or that they are not near the Walkers display?
>>>> 
>>>> I have found Seabrook in a few ASDA stores. 
>>>> Give them a try if you spot them. Maybe it's just because I had them as a Child it's my preference.?
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>> 
>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>> 
>>>> 07802 243979
>>>> 
>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>> 
>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>> 
>>>> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>> 
>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>> 
>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> Sent: 4 October 2022 21:29
>>>> To: techtone at protonmail.com
>>>> Reply to: alawrance1 at me.com
>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Crisps!
>>>> 
>>>> They may not be as good as your NI crisps, Tony, but we're very fond of Tyrells Furrows.
>>>> 
>>>> Not widely available but usually at Waitrose. Their 'ordinary' ones are OK, but Furrows are better.
>>>> 
>>>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>>> 
>>>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> On 4 Oct 2022, at 20:48, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>> ?
>>>>> I have just returned from the Emerald Isle, and whilst there have discovered THE potato crisps. Made in Tandragee, they are Tayto Craft Crisps, exactly what crisps should be. Tayto crisps have been made here for well over 60 years, and their bog-standard crisps are available throughout the province, and quite adequate as ordinary crisps go, but these craft ones, oh yum, scrunch, chomp (especially washed down with a pint of Guinness!). Oh dear, they're not yet available here, but I have a postal service, courtesy of my sister in Belfast, whenever I'm running low. Eat your hearts out you lesser mortals.
>>>>> 
>>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>>>>> 
>>>>> ------- Original Message -------
>>>>>>         On Tuesday, October 4th, 2022 at 14:05, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Not a moan - but what's Pat wittering on about, now!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Having got a Co-op offer of money off Walkers Crisps, I'm reminded that they are now 'ready salted'.
>>>>>> Remember when Smiths crisps used to have the salt in a little blue twist of paper, then a square
>>>>>> packet, so one could add salt or not.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I hadn't seen Smiths on the shelves for ages, but here's the expanation:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Smiths was later owned by biscuit company Nabisco, and finally sold to American company PepsiCo in the 1990s. Subsequently, Pepsico withdrew the brand, in favour of popular British brand Walkers, which had been heavily marketed in a campaign using former England international footballer turned television presenter Gary Lineker. Many of the products previously owned by Smith's became labelled as Walkers, such as Quavers.
>>>>>> Current Smiths brands include Smiths Crisps, Frazzles, Chipsticks, Snaps and Savoury Selection (Bacon Fries and Scampi Fries).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My school tuckshop stocked crisps, but the bullies used to creep up behind you and scrunch up the packet, rendering the crisps to a shower of bits.
>>>>>> I was good at boxing but never dared retaliate, as they 'woz bigger than me'!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Pat H
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 16:21:41 2022
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2022 22:21:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps! & Tuck Shop
In-Reply-To: <9B374F96-4FD4-4C18-A676-41F0469E301F@icloud.com>
References: <CAA=qGJnzFdHCRWJ_-dSKeViPCds7a_VS8teXp07kuuKjfTQ-6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B374F96-4FD4-4C18-A676-41F0469E301F@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <004701d8dc25$20d106e0$627314a0$@gmail.com>

If you can get hold of them try Two Farmers, possibly only available along South Coast

I have found them in farm shops in both Hampshire and Devon

Brilliant crisps, especially lightly salted. I don?t go for all the other synthetic flavours. Old school me!

 

David Denness

2 Cambridge Park Court

Twickenham TW1 2JN

07836 371108

daviddenness at ohbytheway.co.uk

 

 

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Graham Maunder via Tech1
Sent: 09 October 2022 19:07
To: Keith Wicks <keithwicksuk at gmail.com>
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Crisps! & Tuck Shop

 

Currently in Dublin!



Sent from my iPhone 





On 8 Oct 2022, at 16:23, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

?

I do like a good crisp (or two), so I'll be trying to sample the brands recommended here. So far, I've found only Tyrrell's ordinary crisps. I decided to go for the Cheese and Onion flavour which, in this case, is given the name Mature Cheddar and Chive. But I could detect no flavour at all, apart from saltiness. I asked my wife for her opinion, and she said that they had no flavour. She couldn't even taste the saltiness, although she normally has less salt on her food than I do. The good thing about these crisps was their freshness. But 0/10 for flavour.

 

My favourite crisps at the moment are (The Real) McCoy's, ridge cut, and the flavour now called Cheddar & Onion (I think it used to be called Cheddar & Spring Onion). Getting the flavour right seems to be a rather hit and miss affair. When the firm was sold to KP Snacks, a label proclaimed something like "a great new flavour", but there was no noticeable flavour at all. Over many months, the situation gradually improved, although the flavour is still not as strong as it once was. By the way, I see that KP also produce Tyrrell's ordinary and Furrows crisps.

 

My lest favourite brand of crisps is Walkers.

 

KW

 

On Wed, 5 Oct 2022 at 09:47, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

My school tuckshop dispensed its wares from a hatch in the side of an old army hut in the junior playground. Nothing like sipping a mug of hot Oxo during Break on a cold Winter morning! I'll add Refreshers to your list Mike.

 

Hibou.

 

On 5 Oct 2022, at 08:45, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:
The mention of Wagon Wheels reminded me of penny chews, black jacks at four for a penny, I fancy, and sherbet fizz.

Mike G

On 5 Oct 2022, at 08:42, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-opsco.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

Seabrook s Chrisps are my favorite One of the few independent makers in the UK that are left. Made in West Yorkshire. 

 

Walkers appear to have a deal with most big supermarkets that either they will not stock other brands or that they are not near the Walkers display?

 

I have found Seabrook in a few ASDA stores. 

Give them a try if you spot them. Maybe it's just because I had them as a Child it's my preference.?

 

Paul

 

 

 

Paul 

 

Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

07802 243979 <tel:07802243979> 

Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk <mailto:paul at pgtmedia.co.uk>  

Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk <http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk/> 

Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/


From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 

Sent: 4 October 2022 21:29

To: techtone at protonmail.com <mailto:techtone at protonmail.com> 

Reply to: alawrance1 at me.com <mailto:alawrance1 at me.com> 

Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 

Subject: Re: [Tech1] Crisps!

 

They may not be as good as your NI crisps, Tony, but we're very fond of Tyrells Furrows.

 

Not widely available but usually at Waitrose. Their 'ordinary' ones are OK, but Furrows are better.

Alasdair Lawrance

 

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.

 

 





On 4 Oct 2022, at 20:48, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

?

I have just returned from the Emerald Isle, and whilst there have discovered THE potato crisps. Made in Tandragee, they are Tayto Craft Crisps, exactly what crisps should be. Tayto crisps have been made here for well over 60 years, and their bog-standard crisps are available throughout the province, and quite adequate as ordinary crisps go, but these craft ones, oh yum, scrunch, chomp (especially washed down with a pint of Guinness!). Oh dear, they're not yet available here, but I have a postal service, courtesy of my sister in Belfast, whenever I'm running low. Eat your hearts out you lesser mortals.

 

TeaTeaFN - Tony

 

Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/>  secure email. 

 

------- Original Message -------
        On Tuesday, October 4th, 2022 at 14:05, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:




Not a moan - but what's Pat wittering on about, now!

Having got a Co-op offer of money off Walkers Crisps, I'm reminded that they are now 'ready salted'.
Remember when Smiths crisps used to have the salt in a little blue twist of paper, then a square
packet, so one could add salt or not.

I hadn't seen Smiths on the shelves for ages, but here's the expanation:

Smiths was later owned by biscuit company  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabisco> Nabisco, and finally sold to American company  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PepsiCo> PepsiCo in the 1990s. Subsequently, Pepsico withdrew the brand, in favour of popular British brand  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkers_%28snack_foods%29> Walkers, which had been heavily marketed in a campaign using former England international footballer turned television presenter  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Lineker> Gary Lineker. Many of the products previously owned by Smith's became labelled as Walkers, such as  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quavers> Quavers.
Current Smiths brands include Smiths Crisps, Frazzles, Chipsticks, Snaps and Savoury Selection (Bacon Fries and Scampi Fries).

My school tuckshop stocked crisps, but the bullies used to creep up behind you and scrunch up the packet, rendering the crisps to a shower of bits.
I was good at boxing but never dared retaliate, as they 'woz bigger than me'!

Pat H

 

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
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From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Sun Oct  9 23:20:47 2022
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 05:20:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJk40rNivtUtuUvR7M+aXVVsMvqMQQKZCD3U6d8=CLdE5Q@mail.gmail.com>

Pat wrote:

But you are able to hold a driving licence with sight in only one eye
- how then do you judge distance? Wag your head from side to side?

Exactly. We had a cat who lost one eye in a fight. On recovery, she had
difficulty in judging distances, but soon learnt to work things out by
moving her head from side to side.

KW


On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 at 15:06, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

>
> Stereo Vision
>
> This only came home to me when I was experimenting with 3D photography,
> firstly with a Viewmaster
> camera (remember the little discs?) then a 35mm Stereo Realist.
>
> Having brought in to work my home processed and mounted slides with a
> handheld viewer,
> Pete Wineman the SS of the day, announced that it wouldn't be any good for
> him as he only had one eye!
> (I don't know how many knew this).
>
> But you are able to hold a driving licence with sight in only one eye
> - how then do you judge distance? Wag your head from side to side?
>
> Pat H
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 00:02:37 2022
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 06:02:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>

I disagree that stereo sound has "a distance limit of no more than the room
dimensions." (I take that to mean the dimensions of the room in which the
sound is reproduced, not the room in which the sound was recorded.) The
first good quality stereo sound I heard was at Evesham (1961), in an
acoustically dead studio. The studio lights were turned off during the
demonstration, which featured a full symphony orchestra in a fairly live
hall. Afterwards, when the lights were turned on again, it came as a great
surprise to see how small the studio was, as the recording had given the
impression of being played in a  concert hall that was much larger than the
studio used for the demonstration. (Dave Mundy probably heard that
demonstration too. I don't know whether his experience was the same as
mine. I have not asked.)

On reflection, the effect of increased depth could be expected as the depth
of stereo sound produced by headphones is not limited either.

KW

On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 at 16:52, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Stereo Vision
>
> .....
>
> But you are able to hold a driving licence with sight in only one eye
> - how then do you judge distance? Wag your head from side to side?
>
> A great many animals have eyes pointing out of the sides of their heads,
> and have limited (or even zero) binocular vision. That particularly applies
> to ones that are preyed upon and need a wide angle of view to spot danger.
> Nonetheless, they manage to have pretty decent distance judgement using a
> variety of visual tricks. A one-eyed human isn't at that much of a
> disadvantage.
>
> Those stereoscopic slides always amused me - it's a stereo  *effect*
> because of course it isn't real 3D. You cannot move around the scene and
> see it from a different angle. You are merely tricked into seeing a depth
> enhanced image.
>
> The same applies to most stereo sound - it is only a direction effect,
> from a fixed viewpoint and with a distance limit of no more than the room
> dimensions. That applies to most current version of surround sound too.
> Only with full-scale wavefield synthesis does one become free to move
> around, turn at any angle, and have an image distance that extends beyond
> the room boundaries. With headphones fitted with head-trackers and higher
> order soundfield signals you can do quite well too, though that still has
> some positional limitations.
>
> Chris Woolf
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From richardjblencowe at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 03:36:15 2022
From: richardjblencowe at gmail.com (Richard Blencowe)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 09:36:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps! & Tuck Shop
In-Reply-To: <004701d8dc25$20d106e0$627314a0$@gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJnzFdHCRWJ_-dSKeViPCds7a_VS8teXp07kuuKjfTQ-6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B374F96-4FD4-4C18-A676-41F0469E301F@icloud.com>
	<004701d8dc25$20d106e0$627314a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF1nxLjnDoeMVJF+RvMF_LU5=6NGkzStFc_125wrbcED_w8_TQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Guys,

I once did a taste test competition with some mates. We had about eight
unidentified flavours of crisps, most people could not tell the difference.
Clearly if we are told it is cheese and onion or prawn cocktail that is
what we tasted!!

Dick Blencowe

On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 at 22:22, ohbytheway.tv--- via Tech1 <
tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> If you can get hold of them try Two Farmers, possibly only available along
> South Coast
>
> I have found them in farm shops in both Hampshire and Devon
>
> Brilliant crisps, especially lightly salted. I don?t go for all the other
> synthetic flavours. Old school me!
>
>
>
> David Denness
>
> 2 Cambridge Park Court
>
> Twickenham TW1 2JN
>
> 07836 371108
>
> daviddenness at ohbytheway.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> *On Behalf Of *Graham
> Maunder via Tech1
> *Sent:* 09 October 2022 19:07
> *To:* Keith Wicks <keithwicksuk at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Crisps! & Tuck Shop
>
>
>
> Currently in Dublin!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On 8 Oct 2022, at 16:23, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> I do like a good crisp (or two), so I'll be trying to sample the brands
> recommended here. So far, I've found only Tyrrell's ordinary crisps. I
> decided to go for the Cheese and Onion flavour which, in this case, is
> given the name Mature Cheddar and Chive. But I could detect no flavour at
> all, apart from saltiness. I asked my wife for her opinion, and she said
> that they had no flavour. She couldn't even taste the saltiness, although
> she normally has less salt on her food than I do. The good thing about
> these crisps was their freshness. But 0/10 for flavour.
>
>
>
> My favourite crisps at the moment are (The Real) McCoy's, ridge cut, and
> the flavour now called Cheddar & Onion (I think it used to be called
> Cheddar & Spring Onion). Getting the flavour right seems to be a rather hit
> and miss affair. When the firm was sold to KP Snacks, a label proclaimed
> something like "a great new flavour", but there was no noticeable flavour
> at all. Over many months, the situation gradually improved, although the
> flavour is still not as strong as it once was. By the way, I see that KP
> also produce Tyrrell's ordinary and Furrows crisps.
>
>
>
> My lest favourite brand of crisps is Walkers.
>
>
>
> KW
>
>
>
> On Wed, 5 Oct 2022 at 09:47, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> My school tuckshop dispensed its wares from a hatch in the side of an old
> army hut in the junior playground. Nothing like sipping a mug of hot Oxo
> during Break on a cold Winter morning! I'll add Refreshers to your list
> Mike.
>
>
>
> Hibou.
>
>
>
> On 5 Oct 2022, at 08:45, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
> The mention of Wagon Wheels reminded me of penny chews, black jacks at
> four for a penny, I fancy, and sherbet fizz.
>
> Mike G
>
> On 5 Oct 2022, at 08:42, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-opsco.uk
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> Seabrook s Chrisps are my favorite One of the few independent makers in
> the UK that are left. Made in West Yorkshire.
>
>
>
> Walkers appear to have a deal with most big supermarkets that either they
> will not stock other brands or that they are not near the Walkers display?
>
>
>
> I have found Seabrook in a few ASDA stores.
>
> Give them a try if you spot them. Maybe it's just because I had them as a
> Child it's my preference.?
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Paul Thackray
>
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>
> 07802 243979 <07802243979>
>
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>
> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>
> *From:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>
> *Sent:* 4 October 2022 21:29
>
> *To:* techtone at protonmail.com
>
> *Reply to:* alawrance1 at me.com
>
> *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Crisps!
>
>
>
> They may not be as good as your NI crisps, Tony, but we're very fond of
> Tyrells Furrows.
>
>
>
> Not widely available but usually at Waitrose. Their 'ordinary' ones are
> OK, but Furrows are better.
>
> Alasdair Lawrance
>
>
>
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4 Oct 2022, at 20:48, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> I have just returned from the Emerald Isle, and whilst there have
> discovered THE potato crisps. Made in Tandragee, they are Tayto Craft
> Crisps, exactly what crisps should be. Tayto crisps have been made here for
> well over 60 years, and their bog-standard crisps are available throughout
> the province, and quite adequate as ordinary crisps go, but these craft
> ones, oh yum, scrunch, chomp (especially washed down with a pint of
> Guinness!). Oh dear, they're not yet available here, but I have a postal
> service, courtesy of my sister in Belfast, whenever I'm running low. Eat
> your hearts out you lesser mortals.
>
>
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
>
>
> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/> secure email.
>
>
>
> ------- Original Message -------
>         On Tuesday, October 4th, 2022 at 14:05, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Not a moan - but what's Pat wittering on about, now!
>
> Having got a Co-op offer of money off Walkers Crisps, I'm reminded that
> they are now 'ready salted'.
> Remember when Smiths crisps used to have the salt in a little blue twist
> of paper, then a square
> packet, so one could add salt or not.
>
> I hadn't seen Smiths on the shelves for ages, but here's the expanation:
>
> Smiths was later owned by biscuit company Nabisco
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabisco>, and finally sold to American
> company PepsiCo <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PepsiCo> in the 1990s.
> Subsequently, Pepsico withdrew the brand, in favour of popular British
> brand Walkers <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkers_%28snack_foods%29>,
> which had been heavily marketed in a campaign using former England
> international footballer turned television presenter Gary Lineker
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Lineker>. Many of the products
> previously owned by Smith's became labelled as Walkers, such as Quavers
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quavers>.
> Current Smiths brands include Smiths Crisps, Frazzles, Chipsticks, Snaps
> and Savoury Selection (Bacon Fries and Scampi Fries).
>
> My school tuckshop stocked crisps, but the bullies used to creep up behind
> you and scrunch up the packet, rendering the crisps to a shower of bits.
> I was good at boxing but never dared retaliate, as they 'woz bigger than
> me'!
>
> Pat H
>
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 04:01:17 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 10:01:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b9007896-b8db-5cea-8db1-18664e22a588@gmail.com>

The stereo imaging in that Evesham studio (St11 - originally a chapel?) 
was pretty well the best I've ever heard.

On 10/10/2022 06:02, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
> I disagree that stereo sound has "a distance limit of no more than the 
> room dimensions." (I take that to mean the dimensions of the room in 
> which the sound is reproduced, not the room in which the sound was 
> recorded.) The first good quality stereo sound I heard was at Evesham 
> (1961), in an acoustically dead studio. The studio lights were turned 
> off during the demonstration, which featured a full symphony orchestra 
> in a fairly live hall. Afterwards, when the lights were turned on again, 
> it came as a great surprise to see how small the studio was, as the 
> recording had given the impression of being played in a concert hall 
> that was much larger than the studio used for the demonstration. (Dave 
> Mundy probably heard that demonstration too. I don't know whether his 
> experience was the same as mine. I have not asked.)
> 
> On reflection, the effect of increased depth could be expected as the 
> depth of stereo sound produced by headphones is not limited either.
> 
> KW
> 
> On Sun, 9 Oct 2022 at 16:52, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
>     Stereo Vision
>>     .....
>>
>>     But you are able to hold a driving licence with sight in only one eye
>>     - how then do you judge distance? Wag your head from side to side?
>>
>>
>     A great many animals have eyes pointing out of the sides of their
>     heads, and have limited (or even zero) binocular vision. That
>     particularly applies to ones that are preyed upon and need a wide
>     angle of view to spot danger. Nonetheless, they manage to have
>     pretty decent distance judgement using a variety of visual tricks. A
>     one-eyed human isn't at that much of a disadvantage.
> 
>     Those stereoscopic slides always amused me - it's a stereo /effect/
>     because of course it isn't real 3D. You cannot move around the scene
>     and see it from a different angle. You are merely tricked into
>     seeing a depth enhanced image.
> 
>     The same applies to most stereo sound - it is only a direction
>     effect, from a fixed viewpoint and with a distance limit of no more
>     than the room dimensions. That applies to most current version of
>     surround sound too. Only with full-scale wavefield synthesis does
>     one become free to move around, turn at any angle, and have an image
>     distance that extends beyond the room boundaries. With headphones
>     fitted with head-trackers and higher order soundfield signals you
>     can do quite well too, though that still has some positional
>     limitations.
> 
>     Chris Woolf
> 
> 
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>     <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
> 
> 


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Oct 10 04:24:24 2022
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 10:24:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6ca8c56-4d98-e211-792f-afacbb401b05@chriswoolf.co.uk>

It is quite interesting that you were listening in the dark.? The 
longitudinal depth of a stereo image is a tricky thing to measure, but 
most research seems to find that it is very hard to persuade a mind to 
accept an image that is bigger than the room it is played back in. You 
can increase it in people's /imagination/ (with darkness or eyes closed 
helping that) but /location/ of instruments etc is very difficult to 
agree upon. This is much like spaced mic stereo - lovely effect, but a 
touch ethereal in detail. There's a big difference between an impressive 
imagined (subjective) image and a repeatable objective one.

With good WFS it does seem possible to overcome this limitation, mainly 
because you can move around. Since the "distant" images stay put when 
you move - something that can't happen with conventional stereo replay 
systems - your brain is prepared to accept the slightly confusing 
concept of sound beyond the visibly finite boundaries.

With headphones distance is equally confusing for the brain - hence the 
common problem of central forward sound often popping back into the 
middle or top of a listener's head. The brain has do a lot of imagining 
to project the image where it should be, and how well that happens 
varies a lot with individuals.

Where it /can/ work is if the audio is convolved with an accurate (and 
individual)? HTRF, and a fast head tracker. Once again, it seems that is 
because you can move around and the image still stays where it should be 
- locked to the world, and not to your body position - so your brain 
doesn't get too many challenges to correct for reality.

There's been fair bit of work on pilot's headphones, giving them 
"traffic" indications Done well, the warning can come from where the 
nearby aircraft actually is, making it much easier to find visually - 
but this has to be an objective positioning, not an imagined one.

Chris Woolf


On 10/10/2022 06:02, Keith Wicks wrote:
> I disagree that stereo sound has "a distance limit of no more than the 
> room dimensions." (I take that to mean the dimensions of the room in 
> which the sound is reproduced, not the room in which the sound was 
> recorded.) The first good quality stereo sound I heard was at Evesham 
> (1961), in an acoustically dead studio. The studio lights were turned 
> off during the demonstration, which featured a full symphony orchestra 
> in a fairly live hall. Afterwards, when the lights were turned on 
> again, it came as a great surprise to see how small the studio was, as 
> the recording had given the impression of being played in a concert 
> hall that was much larger than the studio used for the demonstration. 
> (Dave Mundy probably heard that demonstration too. I don't know 
> whether his experience was the same as mine. I have not asked.)
>
> On reflection, the effect of increased depth could be expected as the 
> depth of stereo sound produced by headphones is not limited either.
>
>
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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Mon Oct 10 05:31:59 2022
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:31:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <d6ca8c56-4d98-e211-792f-afacbb401b05@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net><6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk><CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6ca8c56-4d98-e211-792f-afacbb401b05@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C2B119C12F34A73BC58CAA6B2C43FF3@Gigabyte>

Talking of stereo on TV, as he was not busy, I called in on Saturday at the B&O shop in Ealing Broadway to have a chat and see if he was interested in my nice old B&O audio stuff and portable radio (He was NOT!!)
Incidentally he had a new HUGE TV on display with superchrome flashy video of course and he didn?t react to my comments of patterning on large areas at a fast picture move. TV mounted on a pillar stand to look neat but presumably not to hide any cables! Underneath was a very thin box covered in horizontal strips of wood.
He told me it was the loudspeaker (Sound Bar?) and possibly two pillars alongside (cables?) and as we talked about stereo and how can it be done on a strip of tiny speakers (no Low frequencies required?).
Apparently the audio from separate speakers in the box is remotely panned to suit the room. The kit even comes with a remote mic (cabled I think) which one moves around the room to see what can be heard and adjusts the pan of the speakers to fit your room.
Whatever next? 3D TV, curved screens so only one person can see full screen and others get tall thin versions?
Whats wrong with 30line projection TV or even this new 405 line stuff? Spot wobble cures hiding the line structure ? simply a switch on the back of the set. No need for a big magnifying lens hung in front of a 9? screen either!

Mike

From: Chris Woolf via Tech1 
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 10:24 AM
To: Keith Wicks 
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 06:43:25 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 12:43:25 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <3C2B119C12F34A73BC58CAA6B2C43FF3@Gigabyte>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6ca8c56-4d98-e211-792f-afacbb401b05@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<3C2B119C12F34A73BC58CAA6B2C43FF3@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <c7aef1e5-2106-013e-2081-b36e08c5011b@gmail.com>

Odd, isn't it? You can pay ?3k for an OLED big screen TV and it still 
comes with poor sound. And not even decent power amps you could plug 
better speakers into. Everything has to be wireless connection these 
days. Except, of course, for the mains. Fashion is a very strange thing.

On 10/10/2022 11:31, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote:
> Talking of stereo on TV, as he was not busy, I called in on Saturday at 
> the B&O shop in Ealing Broadway to have a chat and see if he was 
> interested in my nice old B&O audio stuff and portable radio (He was NOT!!)
> Incidentally he had a new HUGE TV on display with superchrome flashy 
> video of course and he didn?t react to my comments of patterning on 
> large areas at a fast picture move. TV mounted on a pillar stand to look 
> neat but presumably not to hide any cables! Underneath was a very thin 
> box covered in horizontal strips of wood.
> He told me it was the loudspeaker (Sound Bar?) and possibly two pillars 
> alongside (cables?) and as we talked about stereo and how can it be done 
> on a strip of tiny speakers (no Low frequencies required?).
> Apparently the audio from separate speakers in the box is remotely 
> panned to suit the room. The kit even comes with a remote mic (cabled I 
> think) which one moves around the room to see what can be heard and 
> adjusts the pan of the speakers to fit your room.
> Whatever next? 3D TV, curved screens so only one person can see full 
> screen and others get tall thin versions?
> Whats wrong with 30line projection TV or even this new 405 line stuff? 
> Spot wobble cures hiding the line structure ? simply a switch on the 
> back of the set. No need for a big magnifying lens hung in front of a 9? 
> screen either!
> Mike
> *From:* Chris Woolf via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 10:24 AM
> *To:* Keith Wicks <mailto:keithwicksuk at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
> 


From gary_critcher at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 10 07:50:41 2022
From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 12:50:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] We all know where this was taken....
References: <654848104.11275080.1665406241749.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <654848104.11275080.1665406241749@mail.yahoo.com>


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From robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk  Mon Oct 10 08:16:22 2022
From: robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk (Robert Miles)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 14:16:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Royal Mint
Message-ID: <001201d8dcaa$7e4df960$7ae9ec20$@soundsuper.co.uk>

Only a couple of '100th Anniversary of the BBC' Royal Mint coin sets left.
https://www.royalmint.com/shop/limited-editions/100th-anniversary-of-our-bbc
/

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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Mon Oct 10 08:57:34 2022
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 14:57:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] We all know where this was taken....
In-Reply-To: <654848104.11275080.1665406241749@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <654848104.11275080.1665406241749.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<654848104.11275080.1665406241749@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <02D113410151449F98F062CC804CC464@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Isn?t that a great photo! So Mr Cleese wasn?t that much taller than Mr Corbett after all!!

Dave Newbitt.

From: Gary Critcher via Tech1 
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2022 1:50 PM
To: dave.mdv via Tech1 
Subject: [Tech1] We all know where this was taken....




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From geoffletch at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 09:35:26 2022
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 15:35:26 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <c7aef1e5-2106-013e-2081-b36e08c5011b@gmail.com>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6ca8c56-4d98-e211-792f-afacbb401b05@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<3C2B119C12F34A73BC58CAA6B2C43FF3@Gigabyte>
	<c7aef1e5-2106-013e-2081-b36e08c5011b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB-ETS21=qtk3mR3FH6GpkxOjYL4hG=Vxjk6uJEEHKHLLA@mail.gmail.com>

ins r bought a new Sony TV and the sound was amazing - especially the base
frequencies. Being ex cameras I thought I would get amex sound tech to
listen to it and see what he thought. He agreed and found that the whole
screen acted as a giant speaker. The TV system sensed where a sound source
was in the picture and adjusted the apparent position in the stereo feed to
suit. No sound bar needed so I retired it. All you sound techies can have a
good laugh - I?m only a simple cameraman. However - I like what I am
hearing and the clarity is such that I can now listen at a normal volume
once again despite my impaired hearing. My wife is very pleased!
Geoff F

On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 at 12:43, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Odd, isn't it? You can pay ?3k for an OLED big screen TV and it still
> comes with poor sound. And not even decent power amps you could plug
> better speakers into. Everything has to be wireless connection these
> days. Except, of course, for the mains. Fashion is a very strange thing.
>
> On 10/10/2022 11:31, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote:
> > Talking of stereo on TV, as he was not busy, I called in on Saturday at
> > the B&O shop in Ealing Broadway to have a chat and see if he was
> > interested in my nice old B&O audio stuff and portable radio (He was
> NOT!!)
> > Incidentally he had a new HUGE TV on display with superchrome flashy
> > video of course and he didn?t react to my comments of patterning on
> > large areas at a fast picture move. TV mounted on a pillar stand to look
> > neat but presumably not to hide any cables! Underneath was a very thin
> > box covered in horizontal strips of wood.
> > He told me it was the loudspeaker (Sound Bar?) and possibly two pillars
> > alongside (cables?) and as we talked about stereo and how can it be done
> > on a strip of tiny speakers (no Low frequencies required?).
> > Apparently the audio from separate speakers in the box is remotely
> > panned to suit the room. The kit even comes with a remote mic (cabled I
> > think) which one moves around the room to see what can be heard and
> > adjusts the pan of the speakers to fit your room.
> > Whatever next? 3D TV, curved screens so only one person can see full
> > screen and others get tall thin versions?
> > Whats wrong with 30line projection TV or even this new 405 line stuff?
> > Spot wobble cures hiding the line structure ? simply a switch on the
> > back of the set. No need for a big magnifying lens hung in front of a 9?
> > screen either!
> > Mike
> > *From:* Chris Woolf via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> > *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 10:24 AM
> > *To:* Keith Wicks <mailto:keithwicksuk at gmail.com>
> > *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
> >
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From sue.malden at outlook.com  Mon Oct 10 14:31:17 2022
From: sue.malden at outlook.com (Sue Malden)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 19:31:17 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Archives
In-Reply-To: <3ddf14a1-bd68-c3d1-ce6f-62fc19879816@gmail.com>
References: <000b01d8db22$ece6cf70$c6b46e50$@soundsuper.co.uk>
	<3ddf14a1-bd68-c3d1-ce6f-62fc19879816@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1PR10MB227171C93DC3773A42D4326F9E209@VI1PR10MB2271.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I think they are only digitising for access not preservation!!!

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 08 October 2022 16:32
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC Archives

Do we get the impression that they digitise from a Steenbeck?

I'd like to get hold of the Romeo and Juliet that I worked on in 1967. This one https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/5030779c038845a591a1eb8f14ec0954<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgenome.ch.bbc.co.uk%2F5030779c038845a591a1eb8f14ec0954&data=05%7C01%7C%7C286ed4c451564de473bf08daa94256de%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638008399643392166%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=H3PDUMsF4y7WfFv6Jkca%2FpLEPp6Y17I2TxgrYcQS7eE%3D&reserved=0>  . Jim Atkinson said to his cable basher, me - "You can do this one". It turned out that I could be in John Christie's shot along some cloisters, or John Cavacuiti's shot down some stairs.  I have seen it again, long ago, on a Steenbeck, but I'd happily pay the fee to see it again. I don't think I qualify though.

B


On 08/10/2022 15:33, Robert Miles via Tech1 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/oct/08/inside-bbc-archive-100-years<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fmedia%2F2022%2Foct%2F08%2Finside-bbc-archive-100-years&data=05%7C01%7C%7C286ed4c451564de473bf08daa94256de%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638008399643392166%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=dgnnr2XidkZu6muyy3MQDvSMKEy%2B1N316kqj7IiTqhk%3D&reserved=0>

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From techtone at protonmail.com  Mon Oct 10 14:53:21 2022
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 19:53:21 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crisps! & Tuck Shop
In-Reply-To: <9B374F96-4FD4-4C18-A676-41F0469E301F@icloud.com>
References: <CAA=qGJnzFdHCRWJ_-dSKeViPCds7a_VS8teXp07kuuKjfTQ-6g@mail.gmail.com>
	<9B374F96-4FD4-4C18-A676-41F0469E301F@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <zn55uvdCKmGrGXamxXrS-oRyzs3_SnIw648FsIPExitsUjLGCeiceQ7Mb6DwIFIS7G66QIPt22HPyHxrmmiM5pLVRn6baN4Z7K2EqQAyois=@protonmail.com>

Ah, Tayto in the Republic, therein lies a tale. From what I've heard, Tayto was originally a family concern, but there was a fall-out between two brothers, one of whom stayed in the North with the 'secret' recipe, whilst the other brother kept the name 'Tayto' and set up manufacturing in the South, but the crisps there are not quite the same. However, the 'Craft' ones I tried a couple of weeks back are from the North, and certainly some of the best I've had, perhaps the protocol shenanigans prevent them being sold over the boarder

TeaTeaFN - Tony!

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.

------- Original Message -------
On Sunday, October 9th, 2022 at 19:06, Graham Maunder via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Currently in Dublin!
> [image0.jpeg]
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 8 Oct 2022, at 16:23, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> ?
>> I do like a good crisp (or two), so I'll be trying to sample the brands recommended here. So far, I've found only Tyrrell's ordinary crisps. I decided to go for the Cheese and Onion flavour which, in this case, is given the name Mature Cheddar and Chive. But I could detect no flavour at all, apart from saltiness. I asked my wife for her opinion, and she said that they had no flavour. She couldn't even taste the saltiness, although she normally has less salt on her food than I do. The good thing about these crisps was their freshness. But 0/10 for flavour.
>>
>> My favourite crisps at the moment are (The Real) McCoy's, ridge cut, and the flavour now called Cheddar & Onion (I think it used to be called Cheddar & Spring Onion). Getting the flavour right seems to be a rather hit and miss affair. When the firm was sold to KP Snacks, a label proclaimed something like "a great new flavour", but there was no noticeable flavour at all. Over many months, the situation gradually improved, although the flavour is still not as strong as it once was. By the way, I see that KP also produce Tyrrell's ordinary and Furrows crisps.
>>
>> My lest favourite brand of crisps is Walkers.
>>
>> KW
>>
>> On Wed, 5 Oct 2022 at 09:47, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> My school tuckshop dispensed its wares from a hatch in the side of an old army hut in the junior playground. Nothing like sipping a mug of hot Oxo during Break on a cold Winter morning! I'll add Refreshers to your list Mike.
>>>
>>> Hibou.
>>
>>> On 5 Oct 2022, at 08:45, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> The mention of Wagon Wheels reminded me of penny chews, black jacks at four for a penny, I fancy, and sherbet fizz.
>>>
>>>> Mike G
>>>>
>>>>> On 5 Oct 2022, at 08:42, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <[tech1 at tech-opsco.uk](mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Seabrook s Chrisps are my favorite One of the few independent makers in the UK that are left. Made in West Yorkshire.
>>>>>
>>>>> Walkers appear to have a deal with most big supermarkets that either they will not stock other brands or that they are not near the Walkers display?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have found Seabrook in a few ASDA stores.
>>>>> Give them a try if you spot them. Maybe it's just because I had them as a Child it's my preference.?
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>>>
>>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>>>
>>>>> [07802 243979](tel:07802243979)
>>>>>
>>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>>>>
>>>>> Web; [http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk](http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk/)
>>>>>
>>>>> Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>>>>
>>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>>>
>>>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> Sent: 4 October 2022 21:29
>>>>> To: techtone at protonmail.com
>>>>> Reply to: alawrance1 at me.com
>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Crisps!
>>>>>
>>>>> They may not be as good as your NI crisps, Tony, but we're very fond of Tyrells Furrows.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not widely available but usually at Waitrose. Their 'ordinary' ones are OK, but Furrows are better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>>>>
>>>>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4 Oct 2022, at 20:48, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> I have just returned from the Emerald Isle, and whilst there have discovered THE potato crisps. Made in Tandragee, they are Tayto Craft Crisps, exactly what crisps should be. Tayto crisps have been made here for well over 60 years, and their bog-standard crisps are available throughout the province, and quite adequate as ordinary crisps go, but these craft ones, oh yum, scrunch, chomp (especially washed down with a pint of Guinness!). Oh dear, they're not yet available here, but I have a postal service, courtesy of my sister in Belfast, whenever I'm running low. Eat your hearts out you lesser mortals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------- Original Message -------
>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 4th, 2022 at 14:05, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not a moan - but what's Pat wittering on about, now!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having got a Co-op offer of money off Walkers Crisps, I'm reminded that they are now 'ready salted'.
>>>>>>> Remember when Smiths crisps used to have the salt in a little blue twist of paper, then a square
>>>>>>> packet, so one could add salt or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hadn't seen Smiths on the shelves for ages, but here's the expanation:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Smiths was later owned by biscuit company [Nabisco](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabisco), and finally sold to American company [PepsiCo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PepsiCo) in the 1990s. Subsequently, Pepsico withdrew the brand, in favour of popular British brand [Walkers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkers_%28snack_foods%29), which had been heavily marketed in a campaign using former England international footballer turned television presenter [Gary Lineker](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Lineker). Many of the products previously owned by Smith's became labelled as Walkers, such as [Quavers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quavers).
>>>>>>> Current Smiths brands include Smiths Crisps, Frazzles, Chipsticks, Snaps and Savoury Selection (Bacon Fries and Scampi Fries).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My school tuckshop stocked crisps, but the bullies used to creep up behind you and scrunch up the packet, rendering the crisps to a shower of bits.
>>>>>>> I was good at boxing but never dared retaliate, as they 'woz bigger than me'!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pat H
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alawrance1 at me.com  Mon Oct 10 14:59:02 2022
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 20:59:02 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <CAB99AB-ETS21=qtk3mR3FH6GpkxOjYL4hG=Vxjk6uJEEHKHLLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB99AB-ETS21=qtk3mR3FH6GpkxOjYL4hG=Vxjk6uJEEHKHLLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D6A2BE12-D327-44CA-819E-3361AA0090CD@me.com>

  A long time ago, John the Noise played me a tape of a particular song, singer and orchestra combination, titles  of all I've unfortunately forgotten.

It started on one channel, then dual mono and finally proper stereo, I know not how, crossed pair live, multi channel or what.

I was mightily impressed, and that started the rot for me, hearing it at proper level on his wonderful KEF Monitors.

I'm sure John will fill in the details, but it did for me!

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 10 Oct 2022, at 15:36, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> ins r bought a new Sony TV and the sound was amazing - especially the base frequencies. Being ex cameras I thought I would get amex sound tech to listen to it and see what he thought. He agreed and found that the whole screen acted as a giant speaker. The TV system sensed where a sound source was in the picture and adjusted the apparent position in the stereo feed to suit. No sound bar needed so I retired it. All you sound techies can have a good laugh - I?m only a simple cameraman. However - I like what I am hearing and the clarity is such that I can now listen at a normal volume once again despite my impaired hearing. My wife is very pleased!
> Geoff F
> 
>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 at 12:43, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Odd, isn't it? You can pay ?3k for an OLED big screen TV and it still 
>> comes with poor sound. And not even decent power amps you could plug 
>> better speakers into. Everything has to be wireless connection these 
>> days. Except, of course, for the mains. Fashion is a very strange thing.
>> 
>> On 10/10/2022 11:31, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote:
>> > Talking of stereo on TV, as he was not busy, I called in on Saturday at 
>> > the B&O shop in Ealing Broadway to have a chat and see if he was 
>> > interested in my nice old B&O audio stuff and portable radio (He was NOT!!)
>> > Incidentally he had a new HUGE TV on display with superchrome flashy 
>> > video of course and he didn?t react to my comments of patterning on 
>> > large areas at a fast picture move. TV mounted on a pillar stand to look 
>> > neat but presumably not to hide any cables! Underneath was a very thin 
>> > box covered in horizontal strips of wood.
>> > He told me it was the loudspeaker (Sound Bar?) and possibly two pillars 
>> > alongside (cables?) and as we talked about stereo and how can it be done 
>> > on a strip of tiny speakers (no Low frequencies required?).
>> > Apparently the audio from separate speakers in the box is remotely 
>> > panned to suit the room. The kit even comes with a remote mic (cabled I 
>> > think) which one moves around the room to see what can be heard and 
>> > adjusts the pan of the speakers to fit your room.
>> > Whatever next? 3D TV, curved screens so only one person can see full 
>> > screen and others get tall thin versions?
>> > Whats wrong with 30line projection TV or even this new 405 line stuff? 
>> > Spot wobble cures hiding the line structure ? simply a switch on the 
>> > back of the set. No need for a big magnifying lens hung in front of a 9? 
>> > screen either!
>> > Mike
>> > *From:* Chris Woolf via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> > *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 10:24 AM
>> > *To:* Keith Wicks <mailto:keithwicksuk at gmail.com>
>> > *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
>> > 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 18:25:26 2022
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 00:25:26 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <794cffa7-1412-6339-2b44-4fc15fc522ba@btinternet.com>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
	<794cffa7-1412-6339-2b44-4fc15fc522ba@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJnz0EYaoPLb0CfiKDSq4BRdqueDr1rSo11wiNex276UxQ@mail.gmail.com>

Believe it or not, I remember only the orchestral piece. Must be getting
old. You mention the bomber flying past "in the studio."Do you remember if
that sound appeared to be confined to the studio, or did it, at times.
appear to extend beyond  the studio walls?
KW



On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 at 15:31, dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com> wrote:

> I certainly do, Keith! It was brilliant especially all of the other
> demo. tapes they played, like the Lancaster approaching from behind and
> doing a low flypast in the studio! Needless to say, when I returned to
> ETD on my STO course I copied all of the tapes with aid of Chris Daubney
> who was a lecturer there at the time, he went on to much greater
> positions later. Cheers, Dave
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Oct 11 03:17:38 2022
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 09:17:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJnz0EYaoPLb0CfiKDSq4BRdqueDr1rSo11wiNex276UxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
	<794cffa7-1412-6339-2b44-4fc15fc522ba@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJnz0EYaoPLb0CfiKDSq4BRdqueDr1rSo11wiNex276UxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ef89b5cb-1258-3338-9188-fb57f28b722b@btinternet.com>

It certainly felt like we were outdoors at an air display. They also had 
a copy of a Radio Three prizewinning program about Japanese fishmen 
where the sound effects went round you in circles! Cheers, Dave


From philiptyler at me.com  Tue Oct 11 03:24:17 2022
From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 09:24:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Have I Got News For You - Sound
Message-ID: <3D84ADD5-ED04-4647-9F5A-DB18DC839E08@me.com>

I watched HIGNFY last night and I have to say the sound was appalling on some contestants. Paul Merton at times was inaudible and a female guest on Ian Hislop?s team I don?t think I heard anything she said at all.

Worried my hearing was going, listening to all that heavy meat as I do, I clicked around the other channels where I could hear quite clearly.

Philip

From philiptyler at me.com  Tue Oct 11 03:26:25 2022
From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 09:26:25 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Have I Got News For You - Sound
In-Reply-To: <3D84ADD5-ED04-4647-9F5A-DB18DC839E08@me.com>
References: <3D84ADD5-ED04-4647-9F5A-DB18DC839E08@me.com>
Message-ID: <CE54E713-A93F-4CC4-9781-EF3133CD03CE@me.com>

Heavy Metal

Darn atuocrorect!

> On 11 Oct 2022, at 09:24, Philip Tyler via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I watched HIGNFY last night and I have to say the sound was appalling on some contestants. Paul Merton at times was inaudible and a female guest on Ian Hislop?s team I don?t think I heard anything she said at all.
> 
> Worried my hearing was going, listening to all that heavy ?meat' as I do, I clicked around the other channels where I could hear quite clearly.
> 
> Philip
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Oct 11 03:27:10 2022
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 09:27:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <ef89b5cb-1258-3338-9188-fb57f28b722b@btinternet.com>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
	<794cffa7-1412-6339-2b44-4fc15fc522ba@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJnz0EYaoPLb0CfiKDSq4BRdqueDr1rSo11wiNex276UxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<ef89b5cb-1258-3338-9188-fb57f28b722b@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CC41D5D3-F76C-4FBA-8732-2B86546CB72B@icloud.com>

The ?In Flanders Fields? WW1 museum in Ypres has a sound track that includes an aircraft flying through the main gallery. Very effective! Another good use of stereo (surround?) sound is in the Western Front museum in Albert. The museum consists of one of the underground tunnels used as a shelter. It leads from the centre of town to near what was the front line. the sound effects start as a muted roar of gunfire getting slowly louder as you go alomg until you turn a corner and are in the middle of the receiving end of a major bombardment with shells exploding all around you, scared the life out of everybody!

> On 11 Oct 2022, at 09:17, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> It certainly felt like we were outdoors at an air display. They also had a copy of a Radio Three prizewinning program about Japanese fishmen where the sound effects went round you in circles! Cheers, Dave
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Tue Oct 11 03:36:28 2022
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 09:36:28 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Have I Got News For You - Sound
In-Reply-To: <3D84ADD5-ED04-4647-9F5A-DB18DC839E08@me.com>
References: <3D84ADD5-ED04-4647-9F5A-DB18DC839E08@me.com>
Message-ID: <23AE87F9-8613-4E71-BE8C-FA61D2094657@btinternet.com>

Hi Phil?..
	 ??.listening to all that heavy meat?.? Maybe you are "Mutton Jeff"!
Barry.



On 11 Oct 2022, at 09:24, Philip Tyler via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I watched HIGNFY last night and I have to say the sound was appalling on some contestants. Paul Merton at times was inaudible and a female guest on Ian Hislop?s team I don?t think I heard anything she said at all.
> 
> Worried my hearing was going, listening to all that heavy meat as I do, I clicked around the other channels where I could hear quite clearly.
> 
> Philip
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From philiptyler at me.com  Tue Oct 11 04:01:11 2022
From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 10:01:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Have I Got News For You - Sound
In-Reply-To: <23AE87F9-8613-4E71-BE8C-FA61D2094657@btinternet.com>
References: <23AE87F9-8613-4E71-BE8C-FA61D2094657@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <85C06617-EA92-4929-AED6-A6BFCEE995F1@me.com>

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From alawrance1 at me.com  Tue Oct 11 04:26:01 2022
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 10:26:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Have I Got News For You - Sound
In-Reply-To: <85C06617-EA92-4929-AED6-A6BFCEE995F1@me.com>
References: <85C06617-EA92-4929-AED6-A6BFCEE995F1@me.com>
Message-ID: <0464C8AE-117E-4172-B6FF-B2FC2C7A4E80@me.com>

Yet another agreement, the sound is sometimes very 'iffy'.


Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 11 Oct 2022, at 10:01, Philip Tyler via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Indeed :))
> 
> Philip and Bee
> 
> https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/
> 
>>> On 11 Oct 2022, at 09:36, Barry Bonner <barrybonner119 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?Hi Phil?..
>> 	 ??.listening to all that heavy meat?.? Maybe you are "Mutton Jeff"!
>> Barry.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 11 Oct 2022, at 09:24, Philip Tyler via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I watched HIGNFY last night and I have to say the sound was appalling on some contestants. Paul Merton at times was inaudible and a female guest on Ian Hislop?s team I don?t think I heard anything she said at all.
>>> 
>>> Worried my hearing was going, listening to all that heavy meat as I do, I clicked around the other channels where I could hear quite clearly.
>>> 
>>> Philip
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Oct 11 04:48:11 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 10:48:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <ef89b5cb-1258-3338-9188-fb57f28b722b@btinternet.com>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
	<794cffa7-1412-6339-2b44-4fc15fc522ba@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJnz0EYaoPLb0CfiKDSq4BRdqueDr1rSo11wiNex276UxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<ef89b5cb-1258-3338-9188-fb57f28b722b@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <2db2486f-bbf5-4b1f-c612-b5c2b149433d@amps.net>

In the days when my hobby/sport was target rifle shooting, I took my 
Nagra IV-S and a couple of C451's to Bisley.

Playing back, it was so real, that I had to look around to see if there 
were shooters still in action.

On an earlier occasion, STO course #21 late 1966, instead of a studio 
based programme, we put on
a pantomime in the Evesham Club Dance Hall. I had imported my stereo 
system, as the stereo demo
put on at Wood Norton was pitiful.
For the panto we played in some stereo effects, Ian Leiper, as a very 
confused Sultan, hearing
running footsteps from side to side (borrowed from the Goon Show!).
Pity that was never recorded in video - there were not the facilities 
then as we have today.
Two guys wrote the script - as good as Took & Feldman, or Muir & Norden.

Pat H


On 11/10/2022 09:17, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
> It certainly felt like we were outdoors at an air display. They also 
> had a copy of a Radio Three prizewinning program about Japanese 
> fishmen where the sound effects went round you in circles! Cheers, Dave
>
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 05:01:48 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 11:01:48 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Swap Shop
In-Reply-To: <92917e97-ca96-3066-abfc-23f8d01d3562@btinternet.com>
References: <D761BE32-F067-4E2E-A780-BFBCEE876835@icloud.com>
	<78AC5DAB-87D7-4B87-8626-F65E7F64940A@yahoo.com>
	<61496aba-11f7-bea8-3dfc-0d8a9b40dddf@gmail.com>
	<92917e97-ca96-3066-abfc-23f8d01d3562@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <b9959d0e-536d-3669-b848-1425cad4662f@gmail.com>

Someone just discovered a "Missing Believed Wiped"? Swap Shop.

Name that 1977 woman front and centre at 26.57? - 
https://youtu.be/ix-IKxjKqkE

In 2022 she just went off down to the local Asda about ten minutes ago.



B
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Oct 11 05:55:00 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 11:55:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <CAB99AB-ETS21=qtk3mR3FH6GpkxOjYL4hG=Vxjk6uJEEHKHLLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6ca8c56-4d98-e211-792f-afacbb401b05@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<3C2B119C12F34A73BC58CAA6B2C43FF3@Gigabyte>
	<c7aef1e5-2106-013e-2081-b36e08c5011b@gmail.com>
	<CAB99AB-ETS21=qtk3mR3FH6GpkxOjYL4hG=Vxjk6uJEEHKHLLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ed0f6b9b-dff7-38eb-dc9d-3f297b572e57@amps.net>

Not a 'simple cameraman' Geoff!
Although I (as a sound man) can play with a lightweight handheld camera, 
reasonably effectively,
I was once tasked with operating a second Betacam (on legs). but I could 
not manage
zooming, focus and composition all at the same time!

My only memory of camera operating at BBC was being given the CPS Emitron on
the results teleprinter on Grandstand in LG 'G'.

Jim Atkinson taught me camerawork in 30 minutes! I doubt it was that simple,
but he wasn't going to give away salient tips.

So I joined Sound!

Pat H


On 10/10/2022 15:35, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 wrote:
> ins r bought a new Sony TV and the sound was amazing - especially the 
> base frequencies. Being ex cameras I thought I would get amex sound 
> tech to listen to it and see what he thought. He agreed and found that 
> the whole screen acted as a giant speaker. The TV system sensed where 
> a sound source was in the picture and adjusted the apparent position 
> in the stereo feed to suit. No sound bar needed so I retired it. All 
> you sound techies can have a good laugh - I?m only a simple cameraman. 
> However - I like what I am hearing and the clarity is such that I can 
> now listen at a normal volume once again despite my impaired hearing. 
> My wife is very pleased!
> Geoff F
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Tue Oct 11 06:06:38 2022
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 12:06:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <ed0f6b9b-dff7-38eb-dc9d-3f297b572e57@amps.net>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6ca8c56-4d98-e211-792f-afacbb401b05@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<3C2B119C12F34A73BC58CAA6B2C43FF3@Gigabyte>
	<c7aef1e5-2106-013e-2081-b36e08c5011b@gmail.com>
	<CAB99AB-ETS21=qtk3mR3FH6GpkxOjYL4hG=Vxjk6uJEEHKHLLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ed0f6b9b-dff7-38eb-dc9d-3f297b572e57@amps.net>
Message-ID: <3e02dc80-6736-35e3-b4d3-31bba0fc8920@chriswoolf.co.uk>


> Jim Atkinson taught me camerawork in 30 minutes! I doubt it was that 
> simple,
> but he wasn't going to give away salient tips.
>
>
Although the views on this forum vary a lot, Jim /did/ teach a lot. He 
did it in his own fashion, and it only worked with those that wanted to 
learn and were willing to do it by following a pattern, paying continual 
attention, and mostly keeping their mouths shut.

His trick of walking away during runs, so that his basher had to be 
following every shot in memory, and be able to take over, taught the 
level of concentration necessary to do a good job. He might not have 
/told/ you what the framing ought to be, but if you had any wit or 
understanding you had a bloody good example to follow - and you would be 
firmly told if it was wrong.

It was maybe like being taught by a slightly irascible, but brilliant 
professor, rather than a didactic school teacher, and that might explain 
why he wasn't to everyone's taste. But if you got a good word from him 
it meant a lot. I bashed for him quite a bit and never regretted the 
tuition.

Chris Woolf
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Oct 11 06:15:28 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 12:15:28 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <d6ca8c56-4d98-e211-792f-afacbb401b05@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6ca8c56-4d98-e211-792f-afacbb401b05@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cdf91c2e-66c7-6971-b502-5acf25c3f344@amps.net>

I had the pleasure of seeing 'The Diving Bell & The Butterfly' at 
Pinewood's Theatre 7.

A brilliant use of Surround sound to put his thoughts into a central 
surround environment,
as the film was largely shot as if it was his viewpoint, so his words 
seemingly came from inside you,
as the audience, in his head.
The dialogue reverted to centre screen when the shots were away from him.

A very thought-provoking movie, worth a look.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diving_Bell_and_the_Butterfly_(film)

Pat H


On 10/10/2022 10:24, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>
> It is quite interesting that you were listening in the dark. The 
> longitudinal depth of a stereo image is a tricky thing to measure, but 
> most research seems to find that it is very hard to persuade a mind to 
> accept an image that is bigger than the room it is played back in. You 
> can increase it in people's /imagination/ (with darkness or eyes 
> closed helping that) but /location/ of instruments etc is very 
> difficult to agree upon. This is much like spaced mic stereo - lovely 
> effect, but a touch ethereal in detail. There's a big difference 
> between an impressive imagined (subjective) image and a repeatable 
> objective one.
>
> With good WFS it does seem possible to overcome this limitation, 
> mainly because you can move around. Since the "distant" images stay 
> put when you move - something that can't happen with conventional 
> stereo replay systems - your brain is prepared to accept the slightly 
> confusing concept of sound beyond the visibly finite boundaries.
>
> With headphones distance is equally confusing for the brain - hence 
> the common problem of central forward sound often popping back into 
> the middle or top of a listener's head. The brain has do a lot of 
> imagining to project the image where it should be, and how well that 
> happens varies a lot with individuals.
>
> Where it /can/ work is if the audio is convolved with an accurate (and 
> individual)? HTRF, and a fast head tracker. Once again, it seems that 
> is because you can move around and the image still stays where it 
> should be - locked to the world, and not to your body position - so 
> your brain doesn't get too many challenges to correct for reality.
>
> There's been fair bit of work on pilot's headphones, giving them 
> "traffic" indications Done well, the warning can come from where the 
> nearby aircraft actually is, making it much easier to find visually - 
> but this has to be an objective positioning, not an imagined one.
>
> Chris Woolf
>
>
>
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 06:16:41 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 12:16:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <3e02dc80-6736-35e3-b4d3-31bba0fc8920@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6ca8c56-4d98-e211-792f-afacbb401b05@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<3C2B119C12F34A73BC58CAA6B2C43FF3@Gigabyte>
	<c7aef1e5-2106-013e-2081-b36e08c5011b@gmail.com>
	<CAB99AB-ETS21=qtk3mR3FH6GpkxOjYL4hG=Vxjk6uJEEHKHLLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ed0f6b9b-dff7-38eb-dc9d-3f297b572e57@amps.net>
	<3e02dc80-6736-35e3-b4d3-31bba0fc8920@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4186b5b6-d752-63e4-23f5-0c83d5acbdf5@gmail.com>



On 11/10/2022 12:06, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
> It was maybe like being taught by a slightly irascible, but brilliant 
> professor, rather than a didactic school teacher, and that might 
> explain why he wasn't to everyone's taste. But if you got a good word 
> from him it meant a lot. I bashed for him quite a bit and never 
> regretted the tuition.


Me too

B
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Oct 11 07:13:14 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 13:13:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <3e02dc80-6736-35e3-b4d3-31bba0fc8920@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6ca8c56-4d98-e211-792f-afacbb401b05@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<3C2B119C12F34A73BC58CAA6B2C43FF3@Gigabyte>
	<c7aef1e5-2106-013e-2081-b36e08c5011b@gmail.com>
	<CAB99AB-ETS21=qtk3mR3FH6GpkxOjYL4hG=Vxjk6uJEEHKHLLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ed0f6b9b-dff7-38eb-dc9d-3f297b572e57@amps.net>
	<3e02dc80-6736-35e3-b4d3-31bba0fc8920@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <645997e7-b629-1407-f76f-28144430e7a2@amps.net>

Well, I got the rough edge of Jim's tongue - perfectly justified, I will 
say.

Driving a Vinten Motorised on a Schools programme, the shot started in 
the far corner
of TC2 and a curving track in to hit a tracking ladder for the remainder 
of the prog,
going up and down looking at various sets.

Got it perfect on rehearsal, but come the recording, or live, missed the 
line and was two feet
further back. No zooms in those days, so all the shots were too wide.

So, joined Sound!


On 11/10/2022 12:06, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>
>> Jim Atkinson taught me camerawork in 30 minutes! I doubt it was that 
>> simple,
>> but he wasn't going to give away salient tips.
>>
>>
> Although the views on this forum vary a lot, Jim /did/ teach a lot. He 
> did it in his own fashion, and it only worked with those that wanted 
> to learn and were willing to do it by following a pattern, paying 
> continual attention, and mostly keeping their mouths shut.
>
> His trick of walking away during runs, so that his basher had to be 
> following every shot in memory, and be able to take over, taught the 
> level of concentration necessary to do a good job. He might not have 
> /told/ you what the framing ought to be, but if you had any wit or 
> understanding you had a bloody good example to follow - and you would 
> be firmly told if it was wrong.
>
> It was maybe like being taught by a slightly irascible, but brilliant 
> professor, rather than a didactic school teacher, and that might 
> explain why he wasn't to everyone's taste. But if you got a good word 
> from him it meant a lot. I bashed for him quite a bit and never 
> regretted the tuition.
>
> Chris Woolf
>
>
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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 07:15:25 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 13:15:25 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Have I Got News For You - Sound
In-Reply-To: <3D84ADD5-ED04-4647-9F5A-DB18DC839E08@me.com>
References: <3D84ADD5-ED04-4647-9F5A-DB18DC839E08@me.com>
Message-ID: <9758a1bc-e1d0-b743-1a6b-b784c41039e6@gmail.com>

Was this Ser 64 Ep3? Just watched it on i-player. Didn't think it needed 
comment - other than the usual one that in my day we'd have screwed in a 
lot more top end via EQ. But today's SS don't seem to like top.

On 11/10/2022 09:24, Philip Tyler via Tech1 wrote:
> I watched HIGNFY last night and I have to say the sound was appalling on some contestants. Paul Merton at times was inaudible and a female guest on Ian Hislop?s team I don?t think I heard anything she said at all.
>
> Worried my hearing was going, listening to all that heavy meat as I do, I clicked around the other channels where I could hear quite clearly.
>
> Philip


From barry-wilkinson at sky.com  Tue Oct 11 07:19:35 2022
From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 13:19:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <cdf91c2e-66c7-6971-b502-5acf25c3f344@amps.net>
References: <cdf91c2e-66c7-6971-b502-5acf25c3f344@amps.net>
Message-ID: <8C99844F-AE8C-420F-9D99-9A622064D874@sky.com>

A long time ago during a trip to France we visited Futuroscope somewhere in the middle , I cannot remember where. It was a sort of theme park of audio and video experiences. This was well before much of the technology was commonplace. There was an iMax cinema with seats that moved and vibrated in sync with the picture , I think of a cart rolling down a hill in Madeira . Another cinema demonstrated multi channel sound in sync with pictures of a clock workshop. I seem to remember it was advertised as sixteen discrete audio channels. There were many other attractions of a similar nature but my memory banks are now empty.
Considering I now have a very impressive home cinema setup in my lounge , limited mainly by its size of a 5.1 audio setup , I guess the visit must have triggered my interest in the technology. It has taken me years to come anywhere close  to the technology shown then. 
My setup in the home is mastered from an Arcam AVR multi channel amplifier which is set to feed the five surround speakers with genuine scary power of around 200 watts per channel ( UK watts, not American or Japanese watts) The amp is capable of seven channel operation but space limits where I can put extra speakers. With extra amplification it will run height speakers in the ceiling , but it is impressive enough without the expense and physical effort of going that far. 
The icing on the cake is the JL subwoofer which takes over most of the bass  being relatively non directional. It alone has around 1200 watts of audio through a very hefty 12 inch speaker.
All this setup , if just thrown together , is not accurate enough to give the full cinema experience , without the smelly people and popcorn crunching.
This is covered by a very clever electronic setup called Dirac built into the amplifier. A high quality microphone is positioned in nine different listening area positions while frequency sweeps are generated by the system. This creates delays in the channels to compensate for room acoustics and loudspeaker locations. It does other measurements as well and produces a graph of everything. This is then electronically transmitted to Sweden ( I think) where a master computer works everything out and sends back settings to the amplifier. I know this sounds a bit like audio fakery but I got an expert in its use to set it all up for me and before and after results are very impressive. The effect is difficult to describe but with both Stereo and multi channel movie tracks it sort of solidifies the image and brings it away from the loudspeakers more towards the listener( s) . It is capable of producing the impact of movie tracks in a surround mode as well as being subtle and accurate with stereo.
As an aside the best audio only results come from SACDs ( Super Audi Compact Discs) .There are not many about but they are more or less DVDs just for audio. Capable of producing multi channel sound from re mixed productions at a higher quality. A good example is the Beatles Love album, re mixed by George Martin in full surround. Maybe not for the Beatles purists but extremely clever and listenable.
I shall now stop droning on ..in mono.

Sent from my iPad

> On 11 Oct 2022, at 12:16, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I had the pleasure of seeing 'The Diving Bell & The Butterfly' at Pinewood's Theatre 7.
> 
> A brilliant use of Surround sound to put his thoughts into a central surround environment,
> as the film was largely shot as if it was his viewpoint, so his words seemingly came from inside you,
> as the audience, in his head.
> The dialogue reverted to centre screen when the shots were away from him.
> 
> A very thought-provoking movie, worth a look.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diving_Bell_and_the_Butterfly_(film)
> 
> Pat H
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/10/2022 10:24, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>> It is quite interesting that you were listening in the dark.  The longitudinal depth of a stereo image is a tricky thing to measure, but most research seems to find that it is very hard to persuade a mind to accept an image that is bigger than the room it is played back in. You can increase it in people's imagination (with darkness or eyes closed helping that) but location of instruments etc is very difficult to agree upon. This is much like spaced mic stereo - lovely effect, but a touch ethereal in detail. There's a big difference between an impressive imagined (subjective) image and a repeatable objective one.
>> 
>> With good WFS it does seem possible to overcome this limitation, mainly because you can move around. Since the "distant" images stay put when you move - something that can't happen with conventional stereo replay systems - your brain is prepared to accept the slightly confusing concept of sound beyond the visibly finite boundaries.
>> 
>> With headphones distance is equally confusing for the brain - hence the common problem of central forward sound often popping back into the middle or top of a listener's head. The brain has do a lot of imagining to project the image where it should be, and how well that happens varies a lot with individuals.
>> 
>> Where it can work is if the audio is convolved with an accurate (and individual)  HTRF, and a fast head tracker. Once again, it seems that is because you can move around and the image still stays where it should be - locked to the world, and not to your body position - so your brain doesn't get too many challenges to correct for reality.
>> 
>> There's been fair bit of work on pilot's headphones, giving them "traffic" indications Done well, the warning can come from where the nearby aircraft actually is, making it much easier to find visually - but this has to be an objective positioning, not an imagined one.
>> 
>> Chris Woolf
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Tue Oct 11 08:10:07 2022
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 14:10:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <8C99844F-AE8C-420F-9D99-9A622064D874@sky.com>
References: <cdf91c2e-66c7-6971-b502-5acf25c3f344@amps.net>
	<8C99844F-AE8C-420F-9D99-9A622064D874@sky.com>
Message-ID: <e606ed8a-0db3-adf3-6da5-12d95029f830@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 11/10/2022 13:19, B Wilkinson wrote:
> .,....
> As an aside the best audio only results come from SACDs ( Super Audi 
> Compact Discs) ...

Sadly, that claim never worked for Sony. The trouble is that the 
arguments for the 1 bit system don't really hold up. The noise 
performance depended upon noise shaping, which has its problems. The 
over-sampling technique is used as standard in almost all ADCs now, 
albeit not quite to the 1-bit extent - but then SACD quietly moved to 
the same converters for most content too. And since the vast amount of 
data doesn't fit on an optical blank they had to apply a version of 
compression too.

So the entirely pure audio system, with vast bandwidth (far, far beyond 
human hearing) and freedom from brickwall filters (which are not 
required in the way they were in the early days of CD), no longer stood 
up. SACD failed commercially because it didn't provide anything very 
much that anyone wanted, and could be competed with by much cheaper and 
more adaptable systems.

Chris Woolf



From relong at btinternet.com  Tue Oct 11 12:03:50 2022
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 18:03:50 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <e606ed8a-0db3-adf3-6da5-12d95029f830@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <cdf91c2e-66c7-6971-b502-5acf25c3f344@amps.net>
	<8C99844F-AE8C-420F-9D99-9A622064D874@sky.com>
	<e606ed8a-0db3-adf3-6da5-12d95029f830@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4E7C90A8-415A-415B-9563-3FA9D051CA14@btinternet.com>

I did my first audio stereo course in 76 and then again in 82 at Wood Norton.
For the latter we had the Decca boys ,Jimmy Locke and Co down to enthuse us into the spaced brotherhood.
We also had an introduction to the Mid/Side and Blumlein technique
We had Professor  Sennheiser for that, and that was v precise and the opposite of the eathereal Tree so loved by many.
MS was obvious for film sound, especially with the arrival of the MKH range of small diameter condensers .
This I recorded from about 84  to around 2000.
I loved it, Blumlein was a true genius, it worked everywhere and gave good mono compatibility .
It was ultra precise, but failed in post, most editors could not get their heads round it.
Some did and plenty of film drama and docs were transmitted, but mostly it was stereo music bed /fx with mono narrative and dialog
Great pity, I rarely hear it now, but Film Drama has got more daring and oov voices do extend beyond the sound stage sometimes.
In my music career after retirement I recorded the Cheltenham Contemporary Music Festival for 15 years
MS was brill for this, every time I met the R3 beeb boys they were always spaced we never had time for a chat, a great pity.
Once doing a Monsoon docs in Bangladesh the cameraman and I were alone apart from a Govt Fixer , we filmed for 10 days without production..
The Brahmaputra was in full spate and the colours intense, the villages on stilts inundated  I payed Giles back some of my MS Dats
He was entranced , Technicolor Sound he said.
How true.

Roger

> On 11 Oct 2022, at 14:10, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> On 11/10/2022 13:19, B Wilkinson wrote:
>> .,....
>> As an aside the best audio only results come from SACDs ( Super Audi Compact Discs) ...
> 
> Sadly, that claim never worked for Sony. The trouble is that the arguments for the 1 bit system don't really hold up. The noise performance depended upon noise shaping, which has its problems. The over-sampling technique is used as standard in almost all ADCs now, albeit not quite to the 1-bit extent - but then SACD quietly moved to the same converters for most content too. And since the vast amount of data doesn't fit on an optical blank they had to apply a version of compression too.
> 
> So the entirely pure audio system, with vast bandwidth (far, far beyond human hearing) and freedom from brickwall filters (which are not required in the way they were in the early days of CD), no longer stood up. SACD failed commercially because it didn't provide anything very much that anyone wanted, and could be competed with by much cheaper and more adaptable systems.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From mibridge at mac.com  Tue Oct 11 12:21:20 2022
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 18:21:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Have I Got News For You - Sound
In-Reply-To: <9758a1bc-e1d0-b743-1a6b-b784c41039e6@gmail.com>
References: <3D84ADD5-ED04-4647-9F5A-DB18DC839E08@me.com>
	<9758a1bc-e1d0-b743-1a6b-b784c41039e6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67DDDFB4-DC81-4CF3-A6FF-2E5A19DC8B48@mac.com>

Perhaps they?re monitoring on toppy speakers at too high a volume.

Mike G

> On 11 Oct 2022, at 13:15, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Was this Ser 64 Ep3? Just watched it on i-player. Didn't think it needed comment - other than the usual one that in my day we'd have screwed in a lot more top end via EQ. But today's SS don't seem to like top.
> 
> On 11/10/2022 09:24, Philip Tyler via Tech1 wrote:
>> I watched HIGNFY last night and I have to say the sound was appalling on some contestants. Paul Merton at times was inaudible and a female guest on Ian Hislop?s team I don?t think I heard anything she said at all.
>> 
>> Worried my hearing was going, listening to all that heavy meat as I do, I clicked around the other channels where I could hear quite clearly.
>> 
>> Philip
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From philiptyler at me.com  Tue Oct 11 13:25:57 2022
From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 19:25:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Have I Got News For You - Sound
In-Reply-To: <67DDDFB4-DC81-4CF3-A6FF-2E5A19DC8B48@mac.com>
References: <67DDDFB4-DC81-4CF3-A6FF-2E5A19DC8B48@mac.com>
Message-ID: <0CD581B6-670F-46D1-B75C-7AF6FD6DD9FF@me.com>

Interesting you say that, as that?s what Keith Mayes was saying. I can?t remember the speakers he mentioned. But he described their sound as being quite ?bright.?
Still I?d like to know what the woman on Ian Hislops team was saying. :))

Philip and Bee

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/

> On 11 Oct 2022, at 18:21, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Perhaps they?re monitoring on toppy speakers at too high a volume.
> 
> Mike G
> 
>> On 11 Oct 2022, at 13:15, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Was this Ser 64 Ep3? Just watched it on i-player. Didn't think it needed comment - other than the usual one that in my day we'd have screwed in a lot more top end via EQ. But today's SS don't seem to like top.
>> 
>>> On 11/10/2022 09:24, Philip Tyler via Tech1 wrote:
>>> I watched HIGNFY last night and I have to say the sound was appalling on some contestants. Paul Merton at times was inaudible and a female guest on Ian Hislop?s team I don?t think I heard anything she said at all.
>>> 
>>> Worried my hearing was going, listening to all that heavy meat as I do, I clicked around the other channels where I could hear quite clearly.
>>> 
>>> Philip
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From techtone at protonmail.com  Tue Oct 11 14:18:13 2022
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 19:18:13 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Swap Shop
In-Reply-To: <b9959d0e-536d-3669-b848-1425cad4662f@gmail.com>
References: <D761BE32-F067-4E2E-A780-BFBCEE876835@icloud.com>
	<78AC5DAB-87D7-4B87-8626-F65E7F64940A@yahoo.com>
	<61496aba-11f7-bea8-3dfc-0d8a9b40dddf@gmail.com>
	<92917e97-ca96-3066-abfc-23f8d01d3562@btinternet.com>
	<b9959d0e-536d-3669-b848-1425cad4662f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <nUaMr6hIChd7rT6nxv11bYDMM4Tv8dvLjpElPhiAuyHKv3vp6Kxy-TRZw_zaz-nqHtfpgejg1TobmGrjfB-lL-AwE7kgiY9IPjh1zMrCHmw=@protonmail.com>

Down to Asda? Surely her husband could get the chauffeur to drive her to Fortnums?

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.

------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, October 11th, 2022 at 11:01, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Someone just discovered a "Missing Believed Wiped" Swap Shop.
>
> Name that 1977 woman front and centre at 26.57 - https://youtu.be/ix-IKxjKqkE
>
> In 2022 she just went off down to the local Asda about ten minutes ago.
>
> B
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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Wed Oct 12 01:54:18 2022
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 07:54:18 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Tech1] Topic for today Stereo vision
In-Reply-To: <3e02dc80-6736-35e3-b4d3-31bba0fc8920@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <78797fcf-43ca-5a78-a140-2c3061abb298@amps.net>
	<6218a888-815a-a96f-4973-db18705b7ea0@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJ=7_ZXqu7v0+CrjabHC1+0zq0T1iN2eJ1O2EdTuS8kStA@mail.gmail.com>
	<d6ca8c56-4d98-e211-792f-afacbb401b05@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<3C2B119C12F34A73BC58CAA6B2C43FF3@Gigabyte>
	<c7aef1e5-2106-013e-2081-b36e08c5011b@gmail.com>
	<CAB99AB-ETS21=qtk3mR3FH6GpkxOjYL4hG=Vxjk6uJEEHKHLLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<ed0f6b9b-dff7-38eb-dc9d-3f297b572e57@amps.net>
	<3e02dc80-6736-35e3-b4d3-31bba0fc8920@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <286896577.6015.1665557658451@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From waresound at msn.com  Wed Oct 12 05:10:47 2022
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 10:10:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <4323CD0C-659F-4806-B362-F3209D9C7197@me.com>
References: <4323CD0C-659F-4806-B362-F3209D9C7197@me.com>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB16049E9B5F281F32042D4507A7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Harking back to the energy thread last week, before all the wagon wheels and crisps excitement, I thought this might be of interest:
Our house has some dubious 1970?s plumbing, most of which is inaccessible behind recently fitted kitchen units, under floors, and hidden in ceilings, etc. The boiler is in the kitchen, and it?s hot tank is upstairs some distance away. The loop is in the ceiling, but the kitchen is a single storey extension (heat loss through inadequate roof insulation). Our frustration has been that when we run the hot tap, about half a gallon of (metered) water goes to waste while we wait for the hot to come through. Turn the tap off, and all the hot water from tank to sink goes cold, wasting water and energy. None of this was mentioned in the expensive survey we had done before purchasing the house. Not ideal!
So: we have just had a Quooker instant boiling water device fitted under the sink, and it?s a revelation. No need for a kettle anymore, so that?s hibernating in a cupboard. Instant tea pot fill, hot water for saucepans, (saving hob gas), etc. After use, when bringing water back to boiling point it draws 1.3kW, taking about three minutes, and thereafter only 10W in standby mode. Three-way tap gives boiling, cold, mix of both, and/or hot from tank (eventually). Free installation took about 30 mins and freed up some under-sink cupboard space (tidying up some needlessly elaborate plastic sink drain pipes).
So far, highly recommended - wish we?d found it three and a half years ago.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 05:50:31 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 11:50:31 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Swap Shop
In-Reply-To: <nUaMr6hIChd7rT6nxv11bYDMM4Tv8dvLjpElPhiAuyHKv3vp6Kxy-TRZw_zaz-nqHtfpgejg1TobmGrjfB-lL-AwE7kgiY9IPjh1zMrCHmw=@protonmail.com>
References: <D761BE32-F067-4E2E-A780-BFBCEE876835@icloud.com>
	<78AC5DAB-87D7-4B87-8626-F65E7F64940A@yahoo.com>
	<61496aba-11f7-bea8-3dfc-0d8a9b40dddf@gmail.com>
	<92917e97-ca96-3066-abfc-23f8d01d3562@btinternet.com>
	<b9959d0e-536d-3669-b848-1425cad4662f@gmail.com>
	<nUaMr6hIChd7rT6nxv11bYDMM4Tv8dvLjpElPhiAuyHKv3vp6Kxy-TRZw_zaz-nqHtfpgejg1TobmGrjfB-lL-AwE7kgiY9IPjh1zMrCHmw=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <03d87cbf-0d06-b61d-d0f0-fce2e72a3780@gmail.com>

Of course normally it would be limo to Fairoaks, helicopter to 
Battersea, then motorcade to Fortnums.

But I don't think Fortnums do pizza.

B



On 11/10/2022 20:18, techtone wrote:
> Down to Asda? Surely her husband could get the chauffeur to drive her 
> to Fortnums?
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/> secure email.
>
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Tuesday, October 11th, 2022 at 11:01, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Someone just discovered a "Missing Believed Wiped" Swap Shop.
>>
>> Name that 1977 woman front and centre at 26.57 - 
>> https://youtu.be/ix-IKxjKqkE
>>
>> In 2022 she just went off down to the local Asda about ten minutes ago.
>>
>>
>>
>> B
>
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From waresound at msn.com  Wed Oct 12 06:04:36 2022
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 11:04:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Swap Shop
In-Reply-To: <03d87cbf-0d06-b61d-d0f0-fce2e72a3780@gmail.com>
References: <D761BE32-F067-4E2E-A780-BFBCEE876835@icloud.com>
	<78AC5DAB-87D7-4B87-8626-F65E7F64940A@yahoo.com>
	<61496aba-11f7-bea8-3dfc-0d8a9b40dddf@gmail.com>
	<92917e97-ca96-3066-abfc-23f8d01d3562@btinternet.com>
	<b9959d0e-536d-3669-b848-1425cad4662f@gmail.com>
	<nUaMr6hIChd7rT6nxv11bYDMM4Tv8dvLjpElPhiAuyHKv3vp6Kxy-TRZw_zaz-nqHtfpgejg1TobmGrjfB-lL-AwE7kgiY9IPjh1zMrCHmw=@protonmail.com>
	<03d87cbf-0d06-b61d-d0f0-fce2e72a3780@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB1604308112243898B6CD0D5BA7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I think you should go ahead with that, Bernie. My man Nigel at Fairoaks will take care of the transport, and I?m sure Fortnums would organise a Deliveroo for you.
?

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

On 12 Oct 2022, at 11:51, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? Of course normally it would be limo to Fairoaks, helicopter to Battersea, then motorcade to Fortnums.

But I don't think Fortnums do pizza.

B



On 11/10/2022 20:18, techtone wrote:
Down to Asda? Surely her husband could get the chauffeur to drive her to Fortnums?

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with Proton Mail<https://proton.me/> secure email.

------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, October 11th, 2022 at 11:01, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk><mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

Someone just discovered a "Missing Believed Wiped" Swap Shop.

Name that 1977 woman front and centre at 26.57 - https://youtu.be/ix-IKxjKqkE

In 2022 she just went off down to the local Asda about ten minutes ago.

[0MA0uBCAiOOmIFic.png]

B


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From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Oct 12 06:37:46 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 12:37:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB16049E9B5F281F32042D4507A7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <AM9P191MB16049E9B5F281F32042D4507A7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <C5136D4B-03F5-4968-9DAE-B642C39B1E4D@me.com>

Having just returned from Germany, one thing which impressed me was that in my mother in law?s apartment, when you turn on the hot tap, the water instantly flows hot. I was intrigued to understand how they achieve it.

It?s fed from a communal heating system and they have metered hot water consumption as well as cold water.  In the basement I could see three pipes. One was obviously cold water, the other hot water, but I couldn?t make sense of the third pipe.  They were all about 100mm in diameter and encased in rigid plastic, which makes them look like soil pipes, but where there are fittings such as valves, I could see that it?s a 15mm copper pipe in a comfy insulated jacket.

I?m torn between two explanations.  One is that the pipes are super-insulated and the hot water simply stays hot.  The other is that hot water is continuously circulated and is ?tapped off? at the apartment, so that there is always piping hot water available within a run of a couple of metres.  Those two explanations need not be mutually exclusive, both could be happening.

I was unable to see where or how the hot water is metered.  The readings are taken remotely by some smart metering technology.  Rather oddly, the electricity had a meter installed in 2022, but relies on manual readings. 

The communal heating system also heats the radiators and every radiator has been assessed for it?s potential heat output ( surface area and construction ).  A small electronic device is fastened to every radiator and logs the temperature every few minutes.  They are charged via an algorithm which computes how much heat they have used according the the radiator temperature, it?s size and how long it was used.

I?ve only had experience of British plumbing as found in typical private houses.  It?s clearly done differently there compared to what I?m used to. She previously lived in a remote mill-house deep in the country. Water was pumped from a bore hole and the whole water system appeared to be pressurised using a large air compressor and reservoir ( at least a cubic metre ) which occasionally ran when a pressure switch decided it needed to. I never worked out quite how that was done either, but it certainly worked well and the showers were very powerful.

Incidentally, her apartment block is normally heated by gas, but in Germany there are concerns over gas supply because of Russia.  Their communal heating system has a back up boiler and it's currently out of action while they change it to a boiler which uses wood pellets. It reminded me about how we would plan important live broadcasts, trying to anticipate and eliminate any potential single point of failure which could disrupt the programme.

With regards to kitchen hot water, we had a new combi boiler fitted a few weeks ago.  It?s an oil burner ( no gas available here ). There is a small well-insulated reservoir of hot water within it for instant use, further water is heated on demand straight from the mains water supply. There is no hot water storage tank in the house. Therefore our hot water is at mains pressure ( nice powerful showers ), but as the boiler is new and our kitchen was recently refitted, we know that all the pipes are also new. We are tempted to do what many of our neighbours do and use the hot water tap for water for cooking.  It?s not hot enough for tea, but if boiling vegetables, water from the hot tap can be brought to the boil very rapidly on an induction hob. Heating water via the oil burner is presumably much cheaper than doing so by electricity, even at current prices for heating oil.

Alan



> On 12 Oct 2022, at 11:11, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Harking back to the energy thread last week, before all the wagon wheels and crisps excitement, I thought this might be of interest:
> Our house has some dubious 1970?s plumbing, most of which is inaccessible behind recently fitted kitchen units, under floors, and hidden in ceilings, etc. The boiler is in the kitchen, and it?s hot tank is upstairs some distance away. The loop is in the ceiling, but the kitchen is a single storey extension (heat loss through inadequate roof insulation). Our frustration has been that when we run the hot tap, about half a gallon of (metered) water goes to waste while we wait for the hot to come through. Turn the tap off, and all the hot water from tank to sink goes cold, wasting water and energy. None of this was mentioned in the expensive survey we had done before purchasing the house. Not ideal!
> So: we have just had a Quooker instant boiling water device fitted under the sink, and it?s a revelation. No need for a kettle anymore, so that?s hibernating in a cupboard. Instant tea pot fill, hot water for saucepans, (saving hob gas), etc. After use, when bringing water back to boiling point it draws 1.3kW, taking about three minutes, and thereafter only 10W in standby mode. Three-way tap gives boiling, cold, mix of both, and/or hot from tank (eventually). Free installation took about 30 mins and freed up some under-sink cupboard space (tidying up some needlessly elaborate plastic sink drain pipes).
> So far, highly recommended - wish we?d found it three and a half years ago.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From waresound at msn.com  Wed Oct 12 07:29:58 2022
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 12:29:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <C5136D4B-03F5-4968-9DAE-B642C39B1E4D@me.com>
References: <C5136D4B-03F5-4968-9DAE-B642C39B1E4D@me.com>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB16043D1A4A2881A1072D15E4A7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Alan, did you see the Panorama programme recently about the Drax power station, and how they get a huge Government grant to burn wood pellets instead of coal. Only a small percentage of pellets are from scrap timber, the rest made from freshly felled live timber shipped over from Canada. Which, of course was denied on camera. The pathetic defence was that they plant new trees on a huge scale, but ignoring the fact that they are destroying ancient forest on a massive scale, and the new trees take up to 200 years to mature. And let?s not even mention the carbon generated by burning timber.
So gut wrenchingly awful that I couldn?t watch it to the end.
BBC Panorama: ?The Green Energy Scandal Exposed?. On BBC iPlayer.
Cheers,
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

> On 12 Oct 2022, at 12:38, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Having just returned from Germany, one thing which impressed me was that in my mother in law?s apartment, when you turn on the hot tap, the water instantly flows hot. I was intrigued to understand how they achieve it.
> 
> It?s fed from a communal heating system and they have metered hot water consumption as well as cold water.  In the basement I could see three pipes. One was obviously cold water, the other hot water, but I couldn?t make sense of the third pipe.  They were all about 100mm in diameter and encased in rigid plastic, which makes them look like soil pipes, but where there are fittings such as valves, I could see that it?s a 15mm copper pipe in a comfy insulated jacket.
> 
> I?m torn between two explanations.  One is that the pipes are super-insulated and the hot water simply stays hot.  The other is that hot water is continuously circulated and is ?tapped off? at the apartment, so that there is always piping hot water available within a run of a couple of metres.  Those two explanations need not be mutually exclusive, both could be happening.
> 
> I was unable to see where or how the hot water is metered.  The readings are taken remotely by some smart metering technology.  Rather oddly, the electricity had a meter installed in 2022, but relies on manual readings. 
> 
> The communal heating system also heats the radiators and every radiator has been assessed for it?s potential heat output ( surface area and construction ).  A small electronic device is fastened to every radiator and logs the temperature every few minutes.  They are charged via an algorithm which computes how much heat they have used according the the radiator temperature, it?s size and how long it was used.
> 
> I?ve only had experience of British plumbing as found in typical private houses.  It?s clearly done differently there compared to what I?m used to. She previously lived in a remote mill-house deep in the country. Water was pumped from a bore hole and the whole water system appeared to be pressurised using a large air compressor and reservoir ( at least a cubic metre ) which occasionally ran when a pressure switch decided it needed to. I never worked out quite how that was done either, but it certainly worked well and the showers were very powerful.
> 
> Incidentally, her apartment block is normally heated by gas, but in Germany there are concerns over gas supply because of Russia.  Their communal heating system has a back up boiler and it's currently out of action while they change it to a boiler which uses wood pellets. It reminded me about how we would plan important live broadcasts, trying to anticipate and eliminate any potential single point of failure which could disrupt the programme.
> 
> With regards to kitchen hot water, we had a new combi boiler fitted a few weeks ago.  It?s an oil burner ( no gas available here ). There is a small well-insulated reservoir of hot water within it for instant use, further water is heated on demand straight from the mains water supply. There is no hot water storage tank in the house. Therefore our hot water is at mains pressure ( nice powerful showers ), but as the boiler is new and our kitchen was recently refitted, we know that all the pipes are also new. We are tempted to do what many of our neighbours do and use the hot water tap for water for cooking.  It?s not hot enough for tea, but if boiling vegetables, water from the hot tap can be brought to the boil very rapidly on an induction hob. Heating water via the oil burner is presumably much cheaper than doing so by electricity, even at current prices for heating oil.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 11:11, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Harking back to the energy thread last week, before all the wagon wheels and crisps excitement, I thought this might be of interest:
>> Our house has some dubious 1970?s plumbing, most of which is inaccessible behind recently fitted kitchen units, under floors, and hidden in ceilings, etc. The boiler is in the kitchen, and it?s hot tank is upstairs some distance away. The loop is in the ceiling, but the kitchen is a single storey extension (heat loss through inadequate roof insulation). Our frustration has been that when we run the hot tap, about half a gallon of (metered) water goes to waste while we wait for the hot to come through. Turn the tap off, and all the hot water from tank to sink goes cold, wasting water and energy. None of this was mentioned in the expensive survey we had done before purchasing the house. Not ideal!
>> So: we have just had a Quooker instant boiling water device fitted under the sink, and it?s a revelation. No need for a kettle anymore, so that?s hibernating in a cupboard. Instant tea pot fill, hot water for saucepans, (saving hob gas), etc. After use, when bringing water back to boiling point it draws 1.3kW, taking about three minutes, and thereafter only 10W in standby mode. Three-way tap gives boiling, cold, mix of both, and/or hot from tank (eventually). Free installation took about 30 mins and freed up some under-sink cupboard space (tidying up some needlessly elaborate plastic sink drain pipes).
>> So far, highly recommended - wish we?d found it three and a half years ago.
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com  Wed Oct 12 07:43:01 2022
From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 13:43:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <C5136D4B-03F5-4968-9DAE-B642C39B1E4D@me.com>
References: <C5136D4B-03F5-4968-9DAE-B642C39B1E4D@me.com>
Message-ID: <EE84C7AA-A37F-4081-8A99-C94921D9D3EC@icloud.com>

Alan

When we built our house 17 years ago we used the 3 pipe system for that very reason - when the water is ?on? the hot flows around the house so instant hot water is available however far you are from the tanks.
We made it as eco-friendly as we could back then with a ground source heat pump, old style solar panels (that vaguely pre-heated the water), a massive tank underground that stores rainwater from the house and garage roofs and is then used for flushing toilets, filling the washing machine and garden taps.
At the time it all added a fair amount to the build but long term I think we?ve saved.
Nowadays it would be even easier with roof tiles that are actually solar voltaic cells etc but at least we tried!!

Graham Maunder

Sent from my iPhone 

> On 12 Oct 2022, at 12:38, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Having just returned from Germany, one thing which impressed me was that in my mother in law?s apartment, when you turn on the hot tap, the water instantly flows hot. I was intrigued to understand how they achieve it.
> 
> It?s fed from a communal heating system and they have metered hot water consumption as well as cold water.  In the basement I could see three pipes. One was obviously cold water, the other hot water, but I couldn?t make sense of the third pipe.  They were all about 100mm in diameter and encased in rigid plastic, which makes them look like soil pipes, but where there are fittings such as valves, I could see that it?s a 15mm copper pipe in a comfy insulated jacket.
> 
> I?m torn between two explanations.  One is that the pipes are super-insulated and the hot water simply stays hot.  The other is that hot water is continuously circulated and is ?tapped off? at the apartment, so that there is always piping hot water available within a run of a couple of metres.  Those two explanations need not be mutually exclusive, both could be happening.
> 
> I was unable to see where or how the hot water is metered.  The readings are taken remotely by some smart metering technology.  Rather oddly, the electricity had a meter installed in 2022, but relies on manual readings. 
> 
> The communal heating system also heats the radiators and every radiator has been assessed for it?s potential heat output ( surface area and construction ).  A small electronic device is fastened to every radiator and logs the temperature every few minutes.  They are charged via an algorithm which computes how much heat they have used according the the radiator temperature, it?s size and how long it was used.
> 
> I?ve only had experience of British plumbing as found in typical private houses.  It?s clearly done differently there compared to what I?m used to. She previously lived in a remote mill-house deep in the country. Water was pumped from a bore hole and the whole water system appeared to be pressurised using a large air compressor and reservoir ( at least a cubic metre ) which occasionally ran when a pressure switch decided it needed to. I never worked out quite how that was done either, but it certainly worked well and the showers were very powerful.
> 
> Incidentally, her apartment block is normally heated by gas, but in Germany there are concerns over gas supply because of Russia.  Their communal heating system has a back up boiler and it's currently out of action while they change it to a boiler which uses wood pellets. It reminded me about how we would plan important live broadcasts, trying to anticipate and eliminate any potential single point of failure which could disrupt the programme.
> 
> With regards to kitchen hot water, we had a new combi boiler fitted a few weeks ago.  It?s an oil burner ( no gas available here ). There is a small well-insulated reservoir of hot water within it for instant use, further water is heated on demand straight from the mains water supply. There is no hot water storage tank in the house. Therefore our hot water is at mains pressure ( nice powerful showers ), but as the boiler is new and our kitchen was recently refitted, we know that all the pipes are also new. We are tempted to do what many of our neighbours do and use the hot water tap for water for cooking.  It?s not hot enough for tea, but if boiling vegetables, water from the hot tap can be brought to the boil very rapidly on an induction hob. Heating water via the oil burner is presumably much cheaper than doing so by electricity, even at current prices for heating oil.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 11:11, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Harking back to the energy thread last week, before all the wagon wheels and crisps excitement, I thought this might be of interest:
>> Our house has some dubious 1970?s plumbing, most of which is inaccessible behind recently fitted kitchen units, under floors, and hidden in ceilings, etc. The boiler is in the kitchen, and it?s hot tank is upstairs some distance away. The loop is in the ceiling, but the kitchen is a single storey extension (heat loss through inadequate roof insulation). Our frustration has been that when we run the hot tap, about half a gallon of (metered) water goes to waste while we wait for the hot to come through. Turn the tap off, and all the hot water from tank to sink goes cold, wasting water and energy. None of this was mentioned in the expensive survey we had done before purchasing the house. Not ideal!
>> So: we have just had a Quooker instant boiling water device fitted under the sink, and it?s a revelation. No need for a kettle anymore, so that?s hibernating in a cupboard. Instant tea pot fill, hot water for saucepans, (saving hob gas), etc. After use, when bringing water back to boiling point it draws 1.3kW, taking about three minutes, and thereafter only 10W in standby mode. Three-way tap gives boiling, cold, mix of both, and/or hot from tank (eventually). Free installation took about 30 mins and freed up some under-sink cupboard space (tidying up some needlessly elaborate plastic sink drain pipes).
>> So far, highly recommended - wish we?d found it three and a half years ago.
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 07:47:03 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 13:47:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB16049E9B5F281F32042D4507A7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <4323CD0C-659F-4806-B362-F3209D9C7197@me.com>
	<AM9P191MB16049E9B5F281F32042D4507A7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <dc9d7215-6eb4-3463-fcf9-f3b0fd72306e@gmail.com>

Think you'll find that, despite the losses in your hot water run to your 
kitchen, your Quooker tap still costs considerably more to heat your hot 
water. Given gas is about 1/3rd the cost of electricity per kwh. But not 
so much difference in providing boiling water over an electric kettle.

Ir is possible to minimize the lag before hot water arrives from your 
cylinder, by installing a thermo-syphon loop. Which constantly 
circulates the hot water to a point closer to your tap. This does need 
careful design and excellent insulation, though.

The real answer to saving energy costs is better insulation. Sadly, on 
older properties, easier said than done.

On 12/10/2022 11:10, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> Harking back to the energy thread last week, before all the wagon wheels and crisps excitement, I thought this might be of interest:
> Our house has some dubious 1970?s plumbing, most of which is inaccessible behind recently fitted kitchen units, under floors, and hidden in ceilings, etc. The boiler is in the kitchen, and it?s hot tank is upstairs some distance away. The loop is in the ceiling, but the kitchen is a single storey extension (heat loss through inadequate roof insulation). Our frustration has been that when we run the hot tap, about half a gallon of (metered) water goes to waste while we wait for the hot to come through. Turn the tap off, and all the hot water from tank to sink goes cold, wasting water and energy. None of this was mentioned in the expensive survey we had done before purchasing the house. Not ideal!
> So: we have just had a Quooker instant boiling water device fitted under the sink, and it?s a revelation. No need for a kettle anymore, so that?s hibernating in a cupboard. Instant tea pot fill, hot water for saucepans, (saving hob gas), etc. After use, when bringing water back to boiling point it draws 1.3kW, taking about three minutes, and thereafter only 10W in standby mode. Three-way tap gives boiling, cold, mix of both, and/or hot from tank (eventually). Free installation took about 30 mins and freed up some under-sink cupboard space (tidying up some needlessly elaborate plastic sink drain pipes).
> So far, highly recommended - wish we?d found it three and a half years ago.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad


From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Oct 12 09:01:08 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 15:01:08 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB16043D1A4A2881A1072D15E4A7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <AM9P191MB16043D1A4A2881A1072D15E4A7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <06FF6619-4658-479F-84B6-7236BDC9AC09@me.com>

I knew that Drax import their wood chips from Canada ( my son used to live in the next village to Drax and his father in law used to work there.  

 Germany has vast forests which they use in many ways. My understanding is that they pelletise some of their waste wood and use it domestically.  They don?t need to import pellets from elsewhere. 

Wood is extensively used for heating in Germany, mostly softwood. The reason why the apartments use pellets rather than logs is because pellets allow a fully automatic system with a feed hopper at one end and ash being fed into bins at the other end.  Apart from routine maintenance, it only needs a supply of pellets tipped into the hopper from a lorry once in a while and somebody to wheel away a bin of ash once every week or two.

When I lived at Newbury, I used to know of a farmer who lived near Kintbury.  He invested in a special boiler which burned hay bales. It cost a small fortune to install, but ran on what was to him a waste product.  It used a simple conveyer belt to take a bale from a stack, shred it and feed it into the furnace.  The system heated his house, the houses of tenants on his farm, a commercial glasshouse and his swimming pool. He reckoned that payback would be about five years and that was more than twenty years ago with energy costs as they were then. If it?s still working well, he must be delighted with that investment.

Alan


> On 12 Oct 2022, at 13:30, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Alan, did you see the Panorama programme recently about the Drax power station, and how they get a huge Government grant to burn wood pellets instead of coal. Only a small percentage of pellets are from scrap timber, the rest made from freshly felled live timber shipped over from Canada. Which, of course was denied on camera. The pathetic defence was that they plant new trees on a huge scale, but ignoring the fact that they are destroying ancient forest on a massive scale, and the new trees take up to 200 years to mature. And let?s not even mention the carbon generated by burning timber.
> So gut wrenchingly awful that I couldn?t watch it to the end.
> BBC Panorama: ?The Green Energy Scandal Exposed?. On BBC iPlayer.
> Cheers,
> N.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 12:38, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Having just returned from Germany, one thing which impressed me was that in my mother in law?s apartment, when you turn on the hot tap, the water instantly flows hot. I was intrigued to understand how they achieve it.
>> 
>> It?s fed from a communal heating system and they have metered hot water consumption as well as cold water.  In the basement I could see three pipes. One was obviously cold water, the other hot water, but I couldn?t make sense of the third pipe.  They were all about 100mm in diameter and encased in rigid plastic, which makes them look like soil pipes, but where there are fittings such as valves, I could see that it?s a 15mm copper pipe in a comfy insulated jacket.
>> 
>> I?m torn between two explanations.  One is that the pipes are super-insulated and the hot water simply stays hot.  The other is that hot water is continuously circulated and is ?tapped off? at the apartment, so that there is always piping hot water available within a run of a couple of metres.  Those two explanations need not be mutually exclusive, both could be happening.
>> 
>> I was unable to see where or how the hot water is metered.  The readings are taken remotely by some smart metering technology.  Rather oddly, the electricity had a meter installed in 2022, but relies on manual readings. 
>> 
>> The communal heating system also heats the radiators and every radiator has been assessed for it?s potential heat output ( surface area and construction ).  A small electronic device is fastened to every radiator and logs the temperature every few minutes.  They are charged via an algorithm which computes how much heat they have used according the the radiator temperature, it?s size and how long it was used.
>> 
>> I?ve only had experience of British plumbing as found in typical private houses.  It?s clearly done differently there compared to what I?m used to. She previously lived in a remote mill-house deep in the country. Water was pumped from a bore hole and the whole water system appeared to be pressurised using a large air compressor and reservoir ( at least a cubic metre ) which occasionally ran when a pressure switch decided it needed to. I never worked out quite how that was done either, but it certainly worked well and the showers were very powerful.
>> 
>> Incidentally, her apartment block is normally heated by gas, but in Germany there are concerns over gas supply because of Russia.  Their communal heating system has a back up boiler and it's currently out of action while they change it to a boiler which uses wood pellets. It reminded me about how we would plan important live broadcasts, trying to anticipate and eliminate any potential single point of failure which could disrupt the programme.
>> 
>> With regards to kitchen hot water, we had a new combi boiler fitted a few weeks ago.  It?s an oil burner ( no gas available here ). There is a small well-insulated reservoir of hot water within it for instant use, further water is heated on demand straight from the mains water supply. There is no hot water storage tank in the house. Therefore our hot water is at mains pressure ( nice powerful showers ), but as the boiler is new and our kitchen was recently refitted, we know that all the pipes are also new. We are tempted to do what many of our neighbours do and use the hot water tap for water for cooking.  It?s not hot enough for tea, but if boiling vegetables, water from the hot tap can be brought to the boil very rapidly on an induction hob. Heating water via the oil burner is presumably much cheaper than doing so by electricity, even at current prices for heating oil.
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 11:11, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Harking back to the energy thread last week, before all the wagon wheels and crisps excitement, I thought this might be of interest:
>>> Our house has some dubious 1970?s plumbing, most of which is inaccessible behind recently fitted kitchen units, under floors, and hidden in ceilings, etc. The boiler is in the kitchen, and it?s hot tank is upstairs some distance away. The loop is in the ceiling, but the kitchen is a single storey extension (heat loss through inadequate roof insulation). Our frustration has been that when we run the hot tap, about half a gallon of (metered) water goes to waste while we wait for the hot to come through. Turn the tap off, and all the hot water from tank to sink goes cold, wasting water and energy. None of this was mentioned in the expensive survey we had done before purchasing the house. Not ideal!
>>> So: we have just had a Quooker instant boiling water device fitted under the sink, and it?s a revelation. No need for a kettle anymore, so that?s hibernating in a cupboard. Instant tea pot fill, hot water for saucepans, (saving hob gas), etc. After use, when bringing water back to boiling point it draws 1.3kW, taking about three minutes, and thereafter only 10W in standby mode. Three-way tap gives boiling, cold, mix of both, and/or hot from tank (eventually). Free installation took about 30 mins and freed up some under-sink cupboard space (tidying up some needlessly elaborate plastic sink drain pipes).
>>> So far, highly recommended - wish we?d found it three and a half years ago.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nick.
>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Wed Oct 12 10:31:23 2022
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 16:31:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <C5136D4B-03F5-4968-9DAE-B642C39B1E4D@me.com>
References: <AM9P191MB16049E9B5F281F32042D4507A7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<C5136D4B-03F5-4968-9DAE-B642C39B1E4D@me.com>
Message-ID: <2a239b1d-816f-625c-fcf2-d759a74b4aa2@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Most of the things you are describing exist in the UK, and have been 
used pretty widely.

Secondary hot water circulation does indeed use a third pipe that takes 
hot water from just below each hot tap outlet, and sends it back to the 
hot water cylinder? - so the hot water pipe is filled with hot water all 
the time and you get near-enough instant hot water from every tap, even 
where the pipe run is 10s of metres. This system is widely used in 
hotels etc, and anywhere where there is a centralised hot water system.

You do need to keep the pipes well insulated to avoid waste, and I have 
an intelligent Grunfoss pump that works out when you usually demand hot 
water, and when? it can sneakily shut down to save energy.

The pressure vessel you describe is standard for all houses on wells or 
boreholes. Nobody wants loft tanks to provide a water head, so the 
down-hole pump fills a 100-200lt vessel that has an air bladder inside. 
The bladder is pre-pressurised to 2.5 - 3 Bar, and pushes the water back 
out when you open a tap. When the cylinder pressure falls too low the 
pump is switched on again. You get a totally enclosed system and can 
have decent shower pressures anywhere in the house.

Combi systems are good at not wasting heat, but do waste a lot of water 
if run intermittently. They are quite useless in a house of any size, 
with hot water demands in different places.

Hot water meters are quite sophisticated now - as you have discovered - 
and Europe is way ahead of us in efficient and practical heating of 
apartment blocks etc. Sadly, our levels of insulation, and our plumbing 
systems make us look 30-40 years out of date.

Chris Woolf



On 12/10/2022 12:37, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> Having just returned from Germany, one thing which impressed me was that in my mother in law?s apartment, when you turn on the hot tap, the water instantly flows hot. I was intrigued to understand how they achieve it.
>
> It?s fed from a communal heating system and they have metered hot water consumption as well as cold water.  In the basement I could see three pipes. One was obviously cold water, the other hot water, but I couldn?t make sense of the third pipe.  They were all about 100mm in diameter and encased in rigid plastic, which makes them look like soil pipes, but where there are fittings such as valves, I could see that it?s a 15mm copper pipe in a comfy insulated jacket.
>
> I?m torn between two explanations.  One is that the pipes are super-insulated and the hot water simply stays hot.  The other is that hot water is continuously circulated and is ?tapped off? at the apartment, so that there is always piping hot water available within a run of a couple of metres.  Those two explanations need not be mutually exclusive, both could be happening.
>
> I was unable to see where or how the hot water is metered.  The readings are taken remotely by some smart metering technology.  Rather oddly, the electricity had a meter installed in 2022, but relies on manual readings.
>
> The communal heating system also heats the radiators and every radiator has been assessed for it?s potential heat output ( surface area and construction ).  A small electronic device is fastened to every radiator and logs the temperature every few minutes.  They are charged via an algorithm which computes how much heat they have used according the the radiator temperature, it?s size and how long it was used.
>
> I?ve only had experience of British plumbing as found in typical private houses.  It?s clearly done differently there compared to what I?m used to. She previously lived in a remote mill-house deep in the country. Water was pumped from a bore hole and the whole water system appeared to be pressurised using a large air compressor and reservoir ( at least a cubic metre ) which occasionally ran when a pressure switch decided it needed to. I never worked out quite how that was done either, but it certainly worked well and the showers were very powerful.
>
> Incidentally, her apartment block is normally heated by gas, but in Germany there are concerns over gas supply because of Russia.  Their communal heating system has a back up boiler and it's currently out of action while they change it to a boiler which uses wood pellets. It reminded me about how we would plan important live broadcasts, trying to anticipate and eliminate any potential single point of failure which could disrupt the programme.
>
> With regards to kitchen hot water, we had a new combi boiler fitted a few weeks ago.  It?s an oil burner ( no gas available here ). There is a small well-insulated reservoir of hot water within it for instant use, further water is heated on demand straight from the mains water supply. There is no hot water storage tank in the house. Therefore our hot water is at mains pressure ( nice powerful showers ), but as the boiler is new and our kitchen was recently refitted, we know that all the pipes are also new. We are tempted to do what many of our neighbours do and use the hot water tap for water for cooking.  It?s not hot enough for tea, but if boiling vegetables, water from the hot tap can be brought to the boil very rapidly on an induction hob. Heating water via the oil burner is presumably much cheaper than doing so by electricity, even at current prices for heating oil.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 11:11, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Harking back to the energy thread last week, before all the wagon wheels and crisps excitement, I thought this might be of interest:
>> Our house has some dubious 1970?s plumbing, most of which is inaccessible behind recently fitted kitchen units, under floors, and hidden in ceilings, etc. The boiler is in the kitchen, and it?s hot tank is upstairs some distance away. The loop is in the ceiling, but the kitchen is a single storey extension (heat loss through inadequate roof insulation). Our frustration has been that when we run the hot tap, about half a gallon of (metered) water goes to waste while we wait for the hot to come through. Turn the tap off, and all the hot water from tank to sink goes cold, wasting water and energy. None of this was mentioned in the expensive survey we had done before purchasing the house. Not ideal!
>> So: we have just had a Quooker instant boiling water device fitted under the sink, and it?s a revelation. No need for a kettle anymore, so that?s hibernating in a cupboard. Instant tea pot fill, hot water for saucepans, (saving hob gas), etc. After use, when bringing water back to boiling point it draws 1.3kW, taking about three minutes, and thereafter only 10W in standby mode. Three-way tap gives boiling, cold, mix of both, and/or hot from tank (eventually). Free installation took about 30 mins and freed up some under-sink cupboard space (tidying up some needlessly elaborate plastic sink drain pipes).
>> So far, highly recommended - wish we?d found it three and a half years ago.
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From hughsnape at talktalk.net  Wed Oct 12 10:39:38 2022
From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 16:39:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <2a239b1d-816f-625c-fcf2-d759a74b4aa2@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <AM9P191MB16049E9B5F281F32042D4507A7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<C5136D4B-03F5-4968-9DAE-B642C39B1E4D@me.com>
	<2a239b1d-816f-625c-fcf2-d759a74b4aa2@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5AD6A9AE-4B19-4CA5-A07C-AE5C92A34E42@talktalk.net>

Europe is indeed far ahead in these matters.

One of our daughters lives in a block of flats near Paris built some years after the second world war. Although not particularly modern all the flats have underfloor heating from a district heating scheme via massively insulated pipes in the basement. Her flat, though modest, is well insulated and guaranteed to be warm on the coldest of winter days,

So sad that in the UK we seem unable to be egalitarian in this, and so many other, regards.

Hugh

> On 12 Oct 2022, at 16:31, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Most of the things you are describing exist in the UK, and have been used pretty widely.
> 
> Secondary hot water circulation does indeed use a third pipe that takes hot water from just below each hot tap outlet, and sends it back to the hot water cylinder  - so the hot water pipe is filled with hot water all the time and you get near-enough instant hot water from every tap, even where the pipe run is 10s of metres. This system is widely used in hotels etc, and anywhere where there is a centralised hot water system.
> 
> You do need to keep the pipes well insulated to avoid waste, and I have an intelligent Grunfoss pump that works out when you usually demand hot water, and when  it can sneakily shut down to save energy.
> 
> The pressure vessel you describe is standard for all houses on wells or boreholes. Nobody wants loft tanks to provide a water head, so the down-hole pump fills a 100-200lt vessel that has an air bladder inside. The bladder is pre-pressurised to 2.5 - 3 Bar, and pushes the water back out when you open a tap. When the cylinder pressure falls too low the pump is switched on again. You get a totally enclosed system and can have decent shower pressures anywhere in the house.
> 
> Combi systems are good at not wasting heat, but do waste a lot of water if run intermittently. They are quite useless in a house of any size, with hot water demands in different places.
> 
> Hot water meters are quite sophisticated now - as you have discovered - and Europe is way ahead of us in efficient and practical heating of apartment blocks etc. Sadly, our levels of insulation, and our plumbing systems make us look 30-40 years out of date.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/10/2022 12:37, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> Having just returned from Germany, one thing which impressed me was that in my mother in law?s apartment, when you turn on the hot tap, the water instantly flows hot. I was intrigued to understand how they achieve it.
>> 
>> It?s fed from a communal heating system and they have metered hot water consumption as well as cold water.  In the basement I could see three pipes. One was obviously cold water, the other hot water, but I couldn?t make sense of the third pipe.  They were all about 100mm in diameter and encased in rigid plastic, which makes them look like soil pipes, but where there are fittings such as valves, I could see that it?s a 15mm copper pipe in a comfy insulated jacket.
>> 
>> I?m torn between two explanations.  One is that the pipes are super-insulated and the hot water simply stays hot.  The other is that hot water is continuously circulated and is ?tapped off? at the apartment, so that there is always piping hot water available within a run of a couple of metres.  Those two explanations need not be mutually exclusive, both could be happening.
>> 
>> I was unable to see where or how the hot water is metered.  The readings are taken remotely by some smart metering technology.  Rather oddly, the electricity had a meter installed in 2022, but relies on manual readings.
>> 
>> The communal heating system also heats the radiators and every radiator has been assessed for it?s potential heat output ( surface area and construction ).  A small electronic device is fastened to every radiator and logs the temperature every few minutes.  They are charged via an algorithm which computes how much heat they have used according the the radiator temperature, it?s size and how long it was used.
>> 
>> I?ve only had experience of British plumbing as found in typical private houses.  It?s clearly done differently there compared to what I?m used to. She previously lived in a remote mill-house deep in the country. Water was pumped from a bore hole and the whole water system appeared to be pressurised using a large air compressor and reservoir ( at least a cubic metre ) which occasionally ran when a pressure switch decided it needed to. I never worked out quite how that was done either, but it certainly worked well and the showers were very powerful.
>> 
>> Incidentally, her apartment block is normally heated by gas, but in Germany there are concerns over gas supply because of Russia.  Their communal heating system has a back up boiler and it's currently out of action while they change it to a boiler which uses wood pellets. It reminded me about how we would plan important live broadcasts, trying to anticipate and eliminate any potential single point of failure which could disrupt the programme.
>> 
>> With regards to kitchen hot water, we had a new combi boiler fitted a few weeks ago.  It?s an oil burner ( no gas available here ). There is a small well-insulated reservoir of hot water within it for instant use, further water is heated on demand straight from the mains water supply. There is no hot water storage tank in the house. Therefore our hot water is at mains pressure ( nice powerful showers ), but as the boiler is new and our kitchen was recently refitted, we know that all the pipes are also new. We are tempted to do what many of our neighbours do and use the hot water tap for water for cooking.  It?s not hot enough for tea, but if boiling vegetables, water from the hot tap can be brought to the boil very rapidly on an induction hob. Heating water via the oil burner is presumably much cheaper than doing so by electricity, even at current prices for heating oil.
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 11:11, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Harking back to the energy thread last week, before all the wagon wheels and crisps excitement, I thought this might be of interest:
>>> Our house has some dubious 1970?s plumbing, most of which is inaccessible behind recently fitted kitchen units, under floors, and hidden in ceilings, etc. The boiler is in the kitchen, and it?s hot tank is upstairs some distance away. The loop is in the ceiling, but the kitchen is a single storey extension (heat loss through inadequate roof insulation). Our frustration has been that when we run the hot tap, about half a gallon of (metered) water goes to waste while we wait for the hot to come through. Turn the tap off, and all the hot water from tank to sink goes cold, wasting water and energy. None of this was mentioned in the expensive survey we had done before purchasing the house. Not ideal!
>>> So: we have just had a Quooker instant boiling water device fitted under the sink, and it?s a revelation. No need for a kettle anymore, so that?s hibernating in a cupboard. Instant tea pot fill, hot water for saucepans, (saving hob gas), etc. After use, when bringing water back to boiling point it draws 1.3kW, taking about three minutes, and thereafter only 10W in standby mode. Three-way tap gives boiling, cold, mix of both, and/or hot from tank (eventually). Free installation took about 30 mins and freed up some under-sink cupboard space (tidying up some needlessly elaborate plastic sink drain pipes).
>>> So far, highly recommended - wish we?d found it three and a half years ago.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nick.
>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Wed Oct 12 11:27:03 2022
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 17:27:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] [Tech 1] Energy
Message-ID: <D7FCF09685FD415882EF49E7BA42D3FA@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Always interesting how differently things are done elsewhere in the world. Often the case too that one sort of stumbles upon these things wondering at no previous awareness. With Hugh's mention of Paris I remembered that back in 2000 we stayed with my son who at the time was working there. He had an apartment in Neuilly with a balcony overlooking the street. That was when I found that an automatic water wash down of the pavement gutters happened every morning. I know not how widespread that was (or is) but I found it fascinating.



This was August and pretty hot ? maybe a summer only routine of cleansing?

Dave Newbitt.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Hugh Snape via Tech1 
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2022 4:39 PM 
To: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk 
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Energy 

Europe is indeed far ahead in these matters.

One of our daughters lives in a block of flats near Paris built some years after the second world war. Although not particularly modern all the flats have underfloor heating from a district heating scheme via massively insulated pipes in the basement. Her flat, though modest, is well insulated and guaranteed to be warm on the coldest of winter days,

So sad that in the UK we seem unable to be egalitarian in this, and so many other, regards.

Hugh
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From Waresound at msn.com  Wed Oct 12 12:08:36 2022
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 17:08:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <ba9f2a42-cab7-d764-4ebe-7b4bbe315152@amps.net>
References: <4323CD0C-659F-4806-B362-F3209D9C7197@me.com>
	<AM9P191MB16049E9B5F281F32042D4507A7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<ba9f2a42-cab7-d764-4ebe-7b4bbe315152@amps.net>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB1604383220F569E5E0555984A7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

It uses only the existing hot and cold water pipes that you already have. The hot feed passes through unaffected. The boiling (insulated reservoir tank under the sink) is fed from the cold supply. The info is all on the Quooker website. There?s something very cool - no, not cool, boiling - about bunging a teabag in a cup or teapot and holding it under what previously was a cold tap for five seconds: job done. Needless to say there?s a safety feature to prevent accidental scalding. And of course, it needs a mains supply, which was already there for the dishwasher.
Next on the list: an air fryer.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

On 12 Oct 2022, at 11:38, Pat Heigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:

?

Ah! at last someone who could answer a query.

One sees the TV ads for Qooker, but how does it handle the different water supply temperatures?

Are there separate feeds for hot, cold etc, like the mixer nozzles in a bar?
Is water running while bringing back to boiling?

It sounds like a great device!

Pat

On 12/10/2022 11:10, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:

Harking back to the energy thread last week, before all the wagon wheels and crisps excitement, I thought this might be of interest:
Our house has some dubious 1970?s plumbing, most of which is inaccessible behind recently fitted kitchen units, under floors, and hidden in ceilings, etc. The boiler is in the kitchen, and it?s hot tank is upstairs some distance away. The loop is in the ceiling, but the kitchen is a single storey extension (heat loss through inadequate roof insulation). Our frustration has been that when we run the hot tap, about half a gallon of (metered) water goes to waste while we wait for the hot to come through. Turn the tap off, and all the hot water from tank to sink goes cold, wasting water and energy. None of this was mentioned in the expensive survey we had done before purchasing the house. Not ideal!
So: we have just had a Quooker instant boiling water device fitted under the sink, and it?s a revelation. No need for a kettle anymore, so that?s hibernating in a cupboard. Instant tea pot fill, hot water for saucepans, (saving hob gas), etc. After use, when bringing water back to boiling point it draws 1.3kW, taking about three minutes, and thereafter only 10W in standby mode. Three-way tap gives boiling, cold, mix of both, and/or hot from tank (eventually). Free installation took about 30 mins and freed up some under-sink cupboard space (tidying up some needlessly elaborate plastic sink drain pipes).
So far, highly recommended - wish we?d found it three and a half years ago.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

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From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Oct 12 12:49:51 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 18:49:51 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <5AD6A9AE-4B19-4CA5-A07C-AE5C92A34E42@talktalk.net>
References: <5AD6A9AE-4B19-4CA5-A07C-AE5C92A34E42@talktalk.net>
Message-ID: <B29C601D-FE39-4129-A684-95C4F0EA1FFB@me.com>

Another oddity with regard to European building regs concerns electricity in bathrooms.   In the UK, having a mains socket in a bathroom is strictly forbidden unless it?s so far from the sink that you can?t reach it with a barge pole and promise to wear Marigolds and rubber boots at all times ( exact wording of regs might be slightly different ). 

In much of Europe it?s normal to find a standard looking mains socket immediately adjacent to the sink. I fully understand how water and electricity can make dangerous bedfellows, but modern electrical protection systems are pretty effective. If it has been a standard feature within a European bathrooms for ages, why is it still virtually absent from British bathrooms?  They seem to be using similar electricity and water to us, but I hear very few reports of Johnny Foreigner ending up as a charred mess gently smouldering next to the sink, clutching a hair dryer.

Having said that. In the 1978 I worked on a show in Switzerland with Claude Fran?ois ( legendary French singer who composed My Way ) just a few hours before he was electrocuted in his bathroom after he returned to his home in Paris.  Reports vary regarding exactly what happened.  One version is that he stood up in the bath in an attempt to straighten a crooked light fitting, the other is that he fiddled with a faulty bulb. 

On a more upbeat note, I?m a great fan of continental style windows.  They are normally double or triple glazed to an excellent standard, but the feature I particularly like is the two way opening mechanism.  Turn the handle one way and the window is hinged at the bottom, the top opens just a little for ventilation.  Turn it the other way and the window becomes side hinged and fully opens ( inwards ), which makes it very easy to clean.  Some window frames also include integral pull down bug screens and / or sunshades or security shutters. I?d gladly swap the windows in my house for those, but I live in a conservation area and we would need to get planning permission even for minor changes. Besides, such windows would be totally out of keeping with the rest of our house and I would never want to make such a change here.  Our council currently takes an exceedingly dim view of upgrading to more efficient double glazed systems with similar wooden frames, even if they are sympathetically chosen to look almost identical to what was there before.  I?m hoping that home insulation issues will soon take precedence over obsessive preservation of the external appearance. 

Alan



> On 12 Oct 2022, at 16:40, Hugh Snape via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Europe is indeed far ahead in these matters.
> 
> One of our daughters lives in a block of flats near Paris built some years after the second world war. Although not particularly modern all the flats have underfloor heating from a district heating scheme via massively insulated pipes in the basement. Her flat, though modest, is well insulated and guaranteed to be warm on the coldest of winter days,
> 
> So sad that in the UK we seem unable to be egalitarian in this, and so many other, regards.
> 
> Hugh
> 
>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 16:31, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Most of the things you are describing exist in the UK, and have been used pretty widely.
>> 
>> Secondary hot water circulation does indeed use a third pipe that takes hot water from just below each hot tap outlet, and sends it back to the hot water cylinder  - so the hot water pipe is filled with hot water all the time and you get near-enough instant hot water from every tap, even where the pipe run is 10s of metres. This system is widely used in hotels etc, and anywhere where there is a centralised hot water system.
>> 
>> You do need to keep the pipes well insulated to avoid waste, and I have an intelligent Grunfoss pump that works out when you usually demand hot water, and when  it can sneakily shut down to save energy.
>> 
>> The pressure vessel you describe is standard for all houses on wells or boreholes. Nobody wants loft tanks to provide a water head, so the down-hole pump fills a 100-200lt vessel that has an air bladder inside. The bladder is pre-pressurised to 2.5 - 3 Bar, and pushes the water back out when you open a tap. When the cylinder pressure falls too low the pump is switched on again. You get a totally enclosed system and can have decent shower pressures anywhere in the house.
>> 
>> Combi systems are good at not wasting heat, but do waste a lot of water if run intermittently. They are quite useless in a house of any size, with hot water demands in different places.
>> 
>> Hot water meters are quite sophisticated now - as you have discovered - and Europe is way ahead of us in efficient and practical heating of apartment blocks etc. Sadly, our levels of insulation, and our plumbing systems make us look 30-40 years out of date.
>> 
>> Chris Woolf
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12/10/2022 12:37, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Having just returned from Germany, one thing which impressed me was that in my mother in law?s apartment, when you turn on the hot tap, the water instantly flows hot. I was intrigued to understand how they achieve it.
>>> 
>>> It?s fed from a communal heating system and they have metered hot water consumption as well as cold water.  In the basement I could see three pipes. One was obviously cold water, the other hot water, but I couldn?t make sense of the third pipe.  They were all about 100mm in diameter and encased in rigid plastic, which makes them look like soil pipes, but where there are fittings such as valves, I could see that it?s a 15mm copper pipe in a comfy insulated jacket.
>>> 
>>> I?m torn between two explanations.  One is that the pipes are super-insulated and the hot water simply stays hot.  The other is that hot water is continuously circulated and is ?tapped off? at the apartment, so that there is always piping hot water available within a run of a couple of metres.  Those two explanations need not be mutually exclusive, both could be happening.
>>> 
>>> I was unable to see where or how the hot water is metered.  The readings are taken remotely by some smart metering technology.  Rather oddly, the electricity had a meter installed in 2022, but relies on manual readings.
>>> 
>>> The communal heating system also heats the radiators and every radiator has been assessed for it?s potential heat output ( surface area and construction ).  A small electronic device is fastened to every radiator and logs the temperature every few minutes.  They are charged via an algorithm which computes how much heat they have used according the the radiator temperature, it?s size and how long it was used.
>>> 
>>> I?ve only had experience of British plumbing as found in typical private houses.  It?s clearly done differently there compared to what I?m used to. She previously lived in a remote mill-house deep in the country. Water was pumped from a bore hole and the whole water system appeared to be pressurised using a large air compressor and reservoir ( at least a cubic metre ) which occasionally ran when a pressure switch decided it needed to. I never worked out quite how that was done either, but it certainly worked well and the showers were very powerful.
>>> 
>>> Incidentally, her apartment block is normally heated by gas, but in Germany there are concerns over gas supply because of Russia.  Their communal heating system has a back up boiler and it's currently out of action while they change it to a boiler which uses wood pellets. It reminded me about how we would plan important live broadcasts, trying to anticipate and eliminate any potential single point of failure which could disrupt the programme.
>>> 
>>> With regards to kitchen hot water, we had a new combi boiler fitted a few weeks ago.  It?s an oil burner ( no gas available here ). There is a small well-insulated reservoir of hot water within it for instant use, further water is heated on demand straight from the mains water supply. There is no hot water storage tank in the house. Therefore our hot water is at mains pressure ( nice powerful showers ), but as the boiler is new and our kitchen was recently refitted, we know that all the pipes are also new. We are tempted to do what many of our neighbours do and use the hot water tap for water for cooking.  It?s not hot enough for tea, but if boiling vegetables, water from the hot tap can be brought to the boil very rapidly on an induction hob. Heating water via the oil burner is presumably much cheaper than doing so by electricity, even at current prices for heating oil.
>>> 
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 11:11, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?Harking back to the energy thread last week, before all the wagon wheels and crisps excitement, I thought this might be of interest:
>>>> Our house has some dubious 1970?s plumbing, most of which is inaccessible behind recently fitted kitchen units, under floors, and hidden in ceilings, etc. The boiler is in the kitchen, and it?s hot tank is upstairs some distance away. The loop is in the ceiling, but the kitchen is a single storey extension (heat loss through inadequate roof insulation). Our frustration has been that when we run the hot tap, about half a gallon of (metered) water goes to waste while we wait for the hot to come through. Turn the tap off, and all the hot water from tank to sink goes cold, wasting water and energy. None of this was mentioned in the expensive survey we had done before purchasing the house. Not ideal!
>>>> So: we have just had a Quooker instant boiling water device fitted under the sink, and it?s a revelation. No need for a kettle anymore, so that?s hibernating in a cupboard. Instant tea pot fill, hot water for saucepans, (saving hob gas), etc. After use, when bringing water back to boiling point it draws 1.3kW, taking about three minutes, and thereafter only 10W in standby mode. Three-way tap gives boiling, cold, mix of both, and/or hot from tank (eventually). Free installation took about 30 mins and freed up some under-sink cupboard space (tidying up some needlessly elaborate plastic sink drain pipes).
>>>> So far, highly recommended - wish we?d found it three and a half years ago.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Nick.
>>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alawrance1 at me.com  Wed Oct 12 13:13:29 2022
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 19:13:29 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <B29C601D-FE39-4129-A684-95C4F0EA1FFB@me.com>
References: <B29C601D-FE39-4129-A684-95C4F0EA1FFB@me.com>
Message-ID: <E80D8BDD-6531-499E-9558-F4A4EF8746F6@me.com>

Alan et al - 

I've often wondered why an electric shower from Screwfix wouldn't do the job of heating water in the kitchen much cheaper.

They do up to 10.5kw at ?399.99, and although you need a probably 10mm T&E feed, it would still be a better bet than a Quooker, in financial terms, anyway.  It does 18l/min at 50degreesC, probably enough for hand washing and washing dishes.

I'm sure I'm missing something, but what?

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 12 Oct 2022, at 18:50, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Another oddity with regard to European building regs concerns electricity in bathrooms.   In the UK, having a mains socket in a bathroom is strictly forbidden unless it?s so far from the sink that you can?t reach it with a barge pole and promise to wear Marigolds and rubber boots at all times ( exact wording of regs might be slightly different ). 
> 
> In much of Europe it?s normal to find a standard looking mains socket immediately adjacent to the sink. I fully understand how water and electricity can make dangerous bedfellows, but modern electrical protection systems are pretty effective. If it has been a standard feature within a European bathrooms for ages, why is it still virtually absent from British bathrooms?  They seem to be using similar electricity and water to us, but I hear very few reports of Johnny Foreigner ending up as a charred mess gently smouldering next to the sink, clutching a hair dryer.
> 
> Having said that. In the 1978 I worked on a show in Switzerland with Claude Fran?ois ( legendary French singer who composed My Way ) just a few hours before he was electrocuted in his bathroom after he returned to his home in Paris.  Reports vary regarding exactly what happened.  One version is that he stood up in the bath in an attempt to straighten a crooked light fitting, the other is that he fiddled with a faulty bulb. 
> 
> On a more upbeat note, I?m a great fan of continental style windows.  They are normally double or triple glazed to an excellent standard, but the feature I particularly like is the two way opening mechanism.  Turn the handle one way and the window is hinged at the bottom, the top opens just a little for ventilation.  Turn it the other way and the window becomes side hinged and fully opens ( inwards ), which makes it very easy to clean.  Some window frames also include integral pull down bug screens and / or sunshades or security shutters. I?d gladly swap the windows in my house for those, but I live in a conservation area and we would need to get planning permission even for minor changes. Besides, such windows would be totally out of keeping with the rest of our house and I would never want to make such a change here.  Our council currently takes an exceedingly dim view of upgrading to more efficient double glazed systems with similar wooden frames, even if they are sympathetically chosen to look almost identical to what was there before.  I?m hoping that home insulation issues will soon take precedence over obsessive preservation of the external appearance. 
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 16:40, Hugh Snape via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Europe is indeed far ahead in these matters.
>> 
>> One of our daughters lives in a block of flats near Paris built some years after the second world war. Although not particularly modern all the flats have underfloor heating from a district heating scheme via massively insulated pipes in the basement. Her flat, though modest, is well insulated and guaranteed to be warm on the coldest of winter days,
>> 
>> So sad that in the UK we seem unable to be egalitarian in this, and so many other, regards.
>> 
>> Hugh
>> 
>>>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 16:31, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Most of the things you are describing exist in the UK, and have been used pretty widely.
>>> 
>>> Secondary hot water circulation does indeed use a third pipe that takes hot water from just below each hot tap outlet, and sends it back to the hot water cylinder  - so the hot water pipe is filled with hot water all the time and you get near-enough instant hot water from every tap, even where the pipe run is 10s of metres. This system is widely used in hotels etc, and anywhere where there is a centralised hot water system.
>>> 
>>> You do need to keep the pipes well insulated to avoid waste, and I have an intelligent Grunfoss pump that works out when you usually demand hot water, and when  it can sneakily shut down to save energy.
>>> 
>>> The pressure vessel you describe is standard for all houses on wells or boreholes. Nobody wants loft tanks to provide a water head, so the down-hole pump fills a 100-200lt vessel that has an air bladder inside. The bladder is pre-pressurised to 2.5 - 3 Bar, and pushes the water back out when you open a tap. When the cylinder pressure falls too low the pump is switched on again. You get a totally enclosed system and can have decent shower pressures anywhere in the house.
>>> 
>>> Combi systems are good at not wasting heat, but do waste a lot of water if run intermittently. They are quite useless in a house of any size, with hot water demands in different places.
>>> 
>>> Hot water meters are quite sophisticated now - as you have discovered - and Europe is way ahead of us in efficient and practical heating of apartment blocks etc. Sadly, our levels of insulation, and our plumbing systems make us look 30-40 years out of date.
>>> 
>>> Chris Woolf
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 12/10/2022 12:37, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> Having just returned from Germany, one thing which impressed me was that in my mother in law?s apartment, when you turn on the hot tap, the water instantly flows hot. I was intrigued to understand how they achieve it.
>>>> 
>>>> It?s fed from a communal heating system and they have metered hot water consumption as well as cold water.  In the basement I could see three pipes. One was obviously cold water, the other hot water, but I couldn?t make sense of the third pipe.  They were all about 100mm in diameter and encased in rigid plastic, which makes them look like soil pipes, but where there are fittings such as valves, I could see that it?s a 15mm copper pipe in a comfy insulated jacket.
>>>> 
>>>> I?m torn between two explanations.  One is that the pipes are super-insulated and the hot water simply stays hot.  The other is that hot water is continuously circulated and is ?tapped off? at the apartment, so that there is always piping hot water available within a run of a couple of metres.  Those two explanations need not be mutually exclusive, both could be happening.
>>>> 
>>>> I was unable to see where or how the hot water is metered.  The readings are taken remotely by some smart metering technology.  Rather oddly, the electricity had a meter installed in 2022, but relies on manual readings.
>>>> 
>>>> The communal heating system also heats the radiators and every radiator has been assessed for it?s potential heat output ( surface area and construction ).  A small electronic device is fastened to every radiator and logs the temperature every few minutes.  They are charged via an algorithm which computes how much heat they have used according the the radiator temperature, it?s size and how long it was used.
>>>> 
>>>> I?ve only had experience of British plumbing as found in typical private houses.  It?s clearly done differently there compared to what I?m used to. She previously lived in a remote mill-house deep in the country. Water was pumped from a bore hole and the whole water system appeared to be pressurised using a large air compressor and reservoir ( at least a cubic metre ) which occasionally ran when a pressure switch decided it needed to. I never worked out quite how that was done either, but it certainly worked well and the showers were very powerful.
>>>> 
>>>> Incidentally, her apartment block is normally heated by gas, but in Germany there are concerns over gas supply because of Russia.  Their communal heating system has a back up boiler and it's currently out of action while they change it to a boiler which uses wood pellets. It reminded me about how we would plan important live broadcasts, trying to anticipate and eliminate any potential single point of failure which could disrupt the programme.
>>>> 
>>>> With regards to kitchen hot water, we had a new combi boiler fitted a few weeks ago.  It?s an oil burner ( no gas available here ). There is a small well-insulated reservoir of hot water within it for instant use, further water is heated on demand straight from the mains water supply. There is no hot water storage tank in the house. Therefore our hot water is at mains pressure ( nice powerful showers ), but as the boiler is new and our kitchen was recently refitted, we know that all the pipes are also new. We are tempted to do what many of our neighbours do and use the hot water tap for water for cooking.  It?s not hot enough for tea, but if boiling vegetables, water from the hot tap can be brought to the boil very rapidly on an induction hob. Heating water via the oil burner is presumably much cheaper than doing so by electricity, even at current prices for heating oil.
>>>> 
>>>> Alan
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 11:11, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?Harking back to the energy thread last week, before all the wagon wheels and crisps excitement, I thought this might be of interest:
>>>>> Our house has some dubious 1970?s plumbing, most of which is inaccessible behind recently fitted kitchen units, under floors, and hidden in ceilings, etc. The boiler is in the kitchen, and it?s hot tank is upstairs some distance away. The loop is in the ceiling, but the kitchen is a single storey extension (heat loss through inadequate roof insulation). Our frustration has been that when we run the hot tap, about half a gallon of (metered) water goes to waste while we wait for the hot to come through. Turn the tap off, and all the hot water from tank to sink goes cold, wasting water and energy. None of this was mentioned in the expensive survey we had done before purchasing the house. Not ideal!
>>>>> So: we have just had a Quooker instant boiling water device fitted under the sink, and it?s a revelation. No need for a kettle anymore, so that?s hibernating in a cupboard. Instant tea pot fill, hot water for saucepans, (saving hob gas), etc. After use, when bringing water back to boiling point it draws 1.3kW, taking about three minutes, and thereafter only 10W in standby mode. Three-way tap gives boiling, cold, mix of both, and/or hot from tank (eventually). Free installation took about 30 mins and freed up some under-sink cupboard space (tidying up some needlessly elaborate plastic sink drain pipes).
>>>>> So far, highly recommended - wish we?d found it three and a half years ago.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Nick.
>>>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Oct 12 14:52:45 2022
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 20:52:45 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Water
In-Reply-To: <2a239b1d-816f-625c-fcf2-d759a74b4aa2@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <AM9P191MB16049E9B5F281F32042D4507A7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<C5136D4B-03F5-4968-9DAE-B642C39B1E4D@me.com>
	<2a239b1d-816f-625c-fcf2-d759a74b4aa2@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <59b2f69d-e3d8-d824-d5e6-dffaabce6f1b@btinternet.com>

When we moved into our house in 1973 and one of the conditions of the 
mortgage was that it had to be rewired within 3 months. This I did, 
having had no experience of DIY house rebuilding but I learnt a lot fron 
the TVC workshops, and also on my re-gassing of the house and 
replumbing. We have never had a leak or any other problem. I built a new 
bathroom and the hotwater cylinder is next to the sink and you can count 
to three before you get hot water, slightly longer for the kitchen sink 
directly below.  We were always told that to make tea you needed freshly 
boiled water however. Today, we are told that boiling water is bad for 
coffee and tea as it scorches the leaves or beans! 80?C is recommended!
You just don't know where the next idea is coming from! Cheers, Dave


From philiptyler at me.com  Wed Oct 12 14:58:16 2022
From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 20:58:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Water
In-Reply-To: <59b2f69d-e3d8-d824-d5e6-dffaabce6f1b@btinternet.com>
References: <59b2f69d-e3d8-d824-d5e6-dffaabce6f1b@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <06BA3501-5F71-410F-9B79-1E0A1C2FC9AB@me.com>

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From relong at btinternet.com  Wed Oct 12 17:23:30 2022
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 23:23:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <E80D8BDD-6531-499E-9558-F4A4EF8746F6@me.com>
References: <E80D8BDD-6531-499E-9558-F4A4EF8746F6@me.com>
Message-ID: <6BFDF487-DF6E-4477-A966-123EADF70B71@btinternet.com>

We were filming in Assam and staying in govt rest house
There was a python in the thatch roof ?
We moved to a new hotel for Japanese tourist to Kaziranga National park
It was empty
Our rooms had electric shower 
The water came from a rain head and passed over a 240 v open element
It worked but caution was needed
As was the dining room
The soup always contained a raw egg
The chef had had one weeks training in Delhi .
Roger

Sent from my iPhone

> On 12 Oct 2022, at 19:14, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Alan et al - 
> 
> I've often wondered why an electric shower from Screwfix wouldn't do the job of heating water in the kitchen much cheaper.
> 
> They do up to 10.5kw at ?399.99, and although you need a probably 10mm T&E feed, it would still be a better bet than a Quooker, in financial terms, anyway.  It does 18l/min at 50degreesC, probably enough for hand washing and washing dishes.
> 
> I'm sure I'm missing something, but what?
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 18:50, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Another oddity with regard to European building regs concerns electricity in bathrooms.   In the UK, having a mains socket in a bathroom is strictly forbidden unless it?s so far from the sink that you can?t reach it with a barge pole and promise to wear Marigolds and rubber boots at all times ( exact wording of regs might be slightly different ). 
>> 
>> In much of Europe it?s normal to find a standard looking mains socket immediately adjacent to the sink. I fully understand how water and electricity can make dangerous bedfellows, but modern electrical protection systems are pretty effective. If it has been a standard feature within a European bathrooms for ages, why is it still virtually absent from British bathrooms?  They seem to be using similar electricity and water to us, but I hear very few reports of Johnny Foreigner ending up as a charred mess gently smouldering next to the sink, clutching a hair dryer.
>> 
>> Having said that. In the 1978 I worked on a show in Switzerland with Claude Fran?ois ( legendary French singer who composed My Way ) just a few hours before he was electrocuted in his bathroom after he returned to his home in Paris.  Reports vary regarding exactly what happened.  One version is that he stood up in the bath in an attempt to straighten a crooked light fitting, the other is that he fiddled with a faulty bulb. 
>> 
>> On a more upbeat note, I?m a great fan of continental style windows.  They are normally double or triple glazed to an excellent standard, but the feature I particularly like is the two way opening mechanism.  Turn the handle one way and the window is hinged at the bottom, the top opens just a little for ventilation.  Turn it the other way and the window becomes side hinged and fully opens ( inwards ), which makes it very easy to clean.  Some window frames also include integral pull down bug screens and / or sunshades or security shutters. I?d gladly swap the windows in my house for those, but I live in a conservation area and we would need to get planning permission even for minor changes. Besides, such windows would be totally out of keeping with the rest of our house and I would never want to make such a change here.  Our council currently takes an exceedingly dim view of upgrading to more efficient double glazed systems with similar wooden frames, even if they are sympathetically chosen to look almost identical to what was there before.  I?m hoping that home insulation issues will soon take precedence over obsessive preservation of the external appearance. 
>> 
>> Alan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 16:40, Hugh Snape via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Europe is indeed far ahead in these matters.
>>> 
>>> One of our daughters lives in a block of flats near Paris built some years after the second world war. Although not particularly modern all the flats have underfloor heating from a district heating scheme via massively insulated pipes in the basement. Her flat, though modest, is well insulated and guaranteed to be warm on the coldest of winter days,
>>> 
>>> So sad that in the UK we seem unable to be egalitarian in this, and so many other, regards.
>>> 
>>> Hugh
>>> 
>>>>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 16:31, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Most of the things you are describing exist in the UK, and have been used pretty widely.
>>>> 
>>>> Secondary hot water circulation does indeed use a third pipe that takes hot water from just below each hot tap outlet, and sends it back to the hot water cylinder  - so the hot water pipe is filled with hot water all the time and you get near-enough instant hot water from every tap, even where the pipe run is 10s of metres. This system is widely used in hotels etc, and anywhere where there is a centralised hot water system.
>>>> 
>>>> You do need to keep the pipes well insulated to avoid waste, and I have an intelligent Grunfoss pump that works out when you usually demand hot water, and when  it can sneakily shut down to save energy.
>>>> 
>>>> The pressure vessel you describe is standard for all houses on wells or boreholes. Nobody wants loft tanks to provide a water head, so the down-hole pump fills a 100-200lt vessel that has an air bladder inside. The bladder is pre-pressurised to 2.5 - 3 Bar, and pushes the water back out when you open a tap. When the cylinder pressure falls too low the pump is switched on again. You get a totally enclosed system and can have decent shower pressures anywhere in the house.
>>>> 
>>>> Combi systems are good at not wasting heat, but do waste a lot of water if run intermittently. They are quite useless in a house of any size, with hot water demands in different places.
>>>> 
>>>> Hot water meters are quite sophisticated now - as you have discovered - and Europe is way ahead of us in efficient and practical heating of apartment blocks etc. Sadly, our levels of insulation, and our plumbing systems make us look 30-40 years out of date.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 12/10/2022 12:37, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> Having just returned from Germany, one thing which impressed me was that in my mother in law?s apartment, when you turn on the hot tap, the water instantly flows hot. I was intrigued to understand how they achieve it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It?s fed from a communal heating system and they have metered hot water consumption as well as cold water.  In the basement I could see three pipes. One was obviously cold water, the other hot water, but I couldn?t make sense of the third pipe.  They were all about 100mm in diameter and encased in rigid plastic, which makes them look like soil pipes, but where there are fittings such as valves, I could see that it?s a 15mm copper pipe in a comfy insulated jacket.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I?m torn between two explanations.  One is that the pipes are super-insulated and the hot water simply stays hot.  The other is that hot water is continuously circulated and is ?tapped off? at the apartment, so that there is always piping hot water available within a run of a couple of metres.  Those two explanations need not be mutually exclusive, both could be happening.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I was unable to see where or how the hot water is metered.  The readings are taken remotely by some smart metering technology.  Rather oddly, the electricity had a meter installed in 2022, but relies on manual readings.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The communal heating system also heats the radiators and every radiator has been assessed for it?s potential heat output ( surface area and construction ).  A small electronic device is fastened to every radiator and logs the temperature every few minutes.  They are charged via an algorithm which computes how much heat they have used according the the radiator temperature, it?s size and how long it was used.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I?ve only had experience of British plumbing as found in typical private houses.  It?s clearly done differently there compared to what I?m used to. She previously lived in a remote mill-house deep in the country. Water was pumped from a bore hole and the whole water system appeared to be pressurised using a large air compressor and reservoir ( at least a cubic metre ) which occasionally ran when a pressure switch decided it needed to. I never worked out quite how that was done either, but it certainly worked well and the showers were very powerful.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Incidentally, her apartment block is normally heated by gas, but in Germany there are concerns over gas supply because of Russia.  Their communal heating system has a back up boiler and it's currently out of action while they change it to a boiler which uses wood pellets. It reminded me about how we would plan important live broadcasts, trying to anticipate and eliminate any potential single point of failure which could disrupt the programme.
>>>>> 
>>>>> With regards to kitchen hot water, we had a new combi boiler fitted a few weeks ago.  It?s an oil burner ( no gas available here ). There is a small well-insulated reservoir of hot water within it for instant use, further water is heated on demand straight from the mains water supply. There is no hot water storage tank in the house. Therefore our hot water is at mains pressure ( nice powerful showers ), but as the boiler is new and our kitchen was recently refitted, we know that all the pipes are also new. We are tempted to do what many of our neighbours do and use the hot water tap for water for cooking.  It?s not hot enough for tea, but if boiling vegetables, water from the hot tap can be brought to the boil very rapidly on an induction hob. Heating water via the oil burner is presumably much cheaper than doing so by electricity, even at current prices for heating oil.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alan
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 11:11, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ?Harking back to the energy thread last week, before all the wagon wheels and crisps excitement, I thought this might be of interest:
>>>>>> Our house has some dubious 1970?s plumbing, most of which is inaccessible behind recently fitted kitchen units, under floors, and hidden in ceilings, etc. The boiler is in the kitchen, and it?s hot tank is upstairs some distance away. The loop is in the ceiling, but the kitchen is a single storey extension (heat loss through inadequate roof insulation). Our frustration has been that when we run the hot tap, about half a gallon of (metered) water goes to waste while we wait for the hot to come through. Turn the tap off, and all the hot water from tank to sink goes cold, wasting water and energy. None of this was mentioned in the expensive survey we had done before purchasing the house. Not ideal!
>>>>>> So: we have just had a Quooker instant boiling water device fitted under the sink, and it?s a revelation. No need for a kettle anymore, so that?s hibernating in a cupboard. Instant tea pot fill, hot water for saucepans, (saving hob gas), etc. After use, when bringing water back to boiling point it draws 1.3kW, taking about three minutes, and thereafter only 10W in standby mode. Three-way tap gives boiling, cold, mix of both, and/or hot from tank (eventually). Free installation took about 30 mins and freed up some under-sink cupboard space (tidying up some needlessly elaborate plastic sink drain pipes).
>>>>>> So far, highly recommended - wish we?d found it three and a half years ago.
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Nick.
>>>>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Wed Oct 12 17:50:56 2022
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2022 23:50:56 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <B29C601D-FE39-4129-A684-95C4F0EA1FFB@me.com>
References: <5AD6A9AE-4B19-4CA5-A07C-AE5C92A34E42@talktalk.net>
	<B29C601D-FE39-4129-A684-95C4F0EA1FFB@me.com>
Message-ID: <CF003B3288CE46B6A6ED7D8FF90E1B87@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

This form of window, known in the UK as 'tilt and turn' has been available 
here for many years and really has a great deal going for it. Often 
unnoticed by the passer-by as of course in the static state there is nothing 
likely to draw attention other than when in open 'turn' mode they are 
inwards as you say but even that is easily missed.

Dave Newbitt.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2022 6:49 PM
To: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Energy



On a more upbeat note, I?m a great fan of continental style windows.  They 
are normally double or triple glazed to an excellent standard, but the 
feature I particularly like is the two way opening mechanism.  Turn the 
handle one way and the window is hinged at the bottom, the top opens just a 
little for ventilation.  Turn it the other way and the window becomes side 
hinged and fully opens ( inwards ), which makes it very easy to clean.  Some 
window frames also include integral pull down bug screens and / or sunshades 
or security shutters. I?d gladly swap the windows in my house for those, but 
I live in a conservation area and we would need to get planning permission 
even for minor changes. Besides, such windows would be totally out of 
keeping with the rest of our house and I would never want to make such a 
change here.  Our council currently takes an exceedingly dim view of 
upgrading to more efficient double glazed systems with similar wooden 
frames, even if they are sympathetically chosen to look almost identical to 
what was there before.  I?m hoping that home insulation issues will soon 
take precedence over obsessive preservation of the external appearance.

Alan





From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 18:02:46 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 00:02:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <E80D8BDD-6531-499E-9558-F4A4EF8746F6@me.com>
References: <B29C601D-FE39-4129-A684-95C4F0EA1FFB@me.com>
	<E80D8BDD-6531-499E-9558-F4A4EF8746F6@me.com>
Message-ID: <f2ff52e3-715c-2e4d-eb1b-a4ec57e0caeb@gmail.com>

An instant electric heater is still going to cost more to run per litre 
of hot water than a combi boiler - or even a storage system. As gas is 
about 1/3rd the price of electricity. Of course years ago, an instant 
gas heater to provide hot water was common in many kitchens. And later 
to do all the hot water in the house - think they were called multi-points?

On 12/10/2022 19:13, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote:
> Alan et al -
>
> I've often wondered why an electric shower from Screwfix wouldn't do the job of heating water in the kitchen much cheaper.
>
> They do up to 10.5kw at ?399.99, and although you need a probably 10mm T&E feed, it would still be a better bet than a Quooker, in financial terms, anyway.  It does 18l/min at 50degreesC, probably enough for hand washing and washing dishes.
>
> I'm sure I'm missing something, but what?
>
> Alasdair Lawrance
>
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>
>
>
>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 18:50, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Another oddity with regard to European building regs concerns electricity in bathrooms.   In the UK, having a mains socket in a bathroom is strictly forbidden unless it?s so far from the sink that you can?t reach it with a barge pole and promise to wear Marigolds and rubber boots at all times ( exact wording of regs might be slightly different ).
>>
>> In much of Europe it?s normal to find a standard looking mains socket immediately adjacent to the sink. I fully understand how water and electricity can make dangerous bedfellows, but modern electrical protection systems are pretty effective. If it has been a standard feature within a European bathrooms for ages, why is it still virtually absent from British bathrooms?  They seem to be using similar electricity and water to us, but I hear very few reports of Johnny Foreigner ending up as a charred mess gently smouldering next to the sink, clutching a hair dryer.
>>
>> Having said that. In the 1978 I worked on a show in Switzerland with Claude Fran?ois ( legendary French singer who composed My Way ) just a few hours before he was electrocuted in his bathroom after he returned to his home in Paris.  Reports vary regarding exactly what happened.  One version is that he stood up in the bath in an attempt to straighten a crooked light fitting, the other is that he fiddled with a faulty bulb.
>>
>> On a more upbeat note, I?m a great fan of continental style windows.  They are normally double or triple glazed to an excellent standard, but the feature I particularly like is the two way opening mechanism.  Turn the handle one way and the window is hinged at the bottom, the top opens just a little for ventilation.  Turn it the other way and the window becomes side hinged and fully opens ( inwards ), which makes it very easy to clean.  Some window frames also include integral pull down bug screens and / or sunshades or security shutters. I?d gladly swap the windows in my house for those, but I live in a conservation area and we would need to get planning permission even for minor changes. Besides, such windows would be totally out of keeping with the rest of our house and I would never want to make such a change here.  Our council currently takes an exceedingly dim view of upgrading to more efficient double glazed systems with similar wooden frames, even if they are sympathetically chosen to look almost identical to what was there before.  I?m hoping that home insulation issues will soon take precedence over obsessive preservation of the external appearance.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 16:40, Hugh Snape via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Europe is indeed far ahead in these matters.
>>>
>>> One of our daughters lives in a block of flats near Paris built some years after the second world war. Although not particularly modern all the flats have underfloor heating from a district heating scheme via massively insulated pipes in the basement. Her flat, though modest, is well insulated and guaranteed to be warm on the coldest of winter days,
>>>
>>> So sad that in the UK we seem unable to be egalitarian in this, and so many other, regards.
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>>>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 16:31, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Most of the things you are describing exist in the UK, and have been used pretty widely.
>>>>
>>>> Secondary hot water circulation does indeed use a third pipe that takes hot water from just below each hot tap outlet, and sends it back to the hot water cylinder  - so the hot water pipe is filled with hot water all the time and you get near-enough instant hot water from every tap, even where the pipe run is 10s of metres. This system is widely used in hotels etc, and anywhere where there is a centralised hot water system.
>>>>
>>>> You do need to keep the pipes well insulated to avoid waste, and I have an intelligent Grunfoss pump that works out when you usually demand hot water, and when  it can sneakily shut down to save energy.
>>>>
>>>> The pressure vessel you describe is standard for all houses on wells or boreholes. Nobody wants loft tanks to provide a water head, so the down-hole pump fills a 100-200lt vessel that has an air bladder inside. The bladder is pre-pressurised to 2.5 - 3 Bar, and pushes the water back out when you open a tap. When the cylinder pressure falls too low the pump is switched on again. You get a totally enclosed system and can have decent shower pressures anywhere in the house.
>>>>
>>>> Combi systems are good at not wasting heat, but do waste a lot of water if run intermittently. They are quite useless in a house of any size, with hot water demands in different places.
>>>>
>>>> Hot water meters are quite sophisticated now - as you have discovered - and Europe is way ahead of us in efficient and practical heating of apartment blocks etc. Sadly, our levels of insulation, and our plumbing systems make us look 30-40 years out of date.
>>>>
>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/10/2022 12:37, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> Having just returned from Germany, one thing which impressed me was that in my mother in law?s apartment, when you turn on the hot tap, the water instantly flows hot. I was intrigued to understand how they achieve it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It?s fed from a communal heating system and they have metered hot water consumption as well as cold water.  In the basement I could see three pipes. One was obviously cold water, the other hot water, but I couldn?t make sense of the third pipe.  They were all about 100mm in diameter and encased in rigid plastic, which makes them look like soil pipes, but where there are fittings such as valves, I could see that it?s a 15mm copper pipe in a comfy insulated jacket.
>>>>>
>>>>> I?m torn between two explanations.  One is that the pipes are super-insulated and the hot water simply stays hot.  The other is that hot water is continuously circulated and is ?tapped off? at the apartment, so that there is always piping hot water available within a run of a couple of metres.  Those two explanations need not be mutually exclusive, both could be happening.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was unable to see where or how the hot water is metered.  The readings are taken remotely by some smart metering technology.  Rather oddly, the electricity had a meter installed in 2022, but relies on manual readings.
>>>>>
>>>>> The communal heating system also heats the radiators and every radiator has been assessed for it?s potential heat output ( surface area and construction ).  A small electronic device is fastened to every radiator and logs the temperature every few minutes.  They are charged via an algorithm which computes how much heat they have used according the the radiator temperature, it?s size and how long it was used.
>>>>>
>>>>> I?ve only had experience of British plumbing as found in typical private houses.  It?s clearly done differently there compared to what I?m used to. She previously lived in a remote mill-house deep in the country. Water was pumped from a bore hole and the whole water system appeared to be pressurised using a large air compressor and reservoir ( at least a cubic metre ) which occasionally ran when a pressure switch decided it needed to. I never worked out quite how that was done either, but it certainly worked well and the showers were very powerful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Incidentally, her apartment block is normally heated by gas, but in Germany there are concerns over gas supply because of Russia.  Their communal heating system has a back up boiler and it's currently out of action while they change it to a boiler which uses wood pellets. It reminded me about how we would plan important live broadcasts, trying to anticipate and eliminate any potential single point of failure which could disrupt the programme.
>>>>>
>>>>> With regards to kitchen hot water, we had a new combi boiler fitted a few weeks ago.  It?s an oil burner ( no gas available here ). There is a small well-insulated reservoir of hot water within it for instant use, further water is heated on demand straight from the mains water supply. There is no hot water storage tank in the house. Therefore our hot water is at mains pressure ( nice powerful showers ), but as the boiler is new and our kitchen was recently refitted, we know that all the pipes are also new. We are tempted to do what many of our neighbours do and use the hot water tap for water for cooking.  It?s not hot enough for tea, but if boiling vegetables, water from the hot tap can be brought to the boil very rapidly on an induction hob. Heating water via the oil burner is presumably much cheaper than doing so by electricity, even at current prices for heating oil.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12 Oct 2022, at 11:11, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?Harking back to the energy thread last week, before all the wagon wheels and crisps excitement, I thought this might be of interest:
>>>>>> Our house has some dubious 1970?s plumbing, most of which is inaccessible behind recently fitted kitchen units, under floors, and hidden in ceilings, etc. The boiler is in the kitchen, and it?s hot tank is upstairs some distance away. The loop is in the ceiling, but the kitchen is a single storey extension (heat loss through inadequate roof insulation). Our frustration has been that when we run the hot tap, about half a gallon of (metered) water goes to waste while we wait for the hot to come through. Turn the tap off, and all the hot water from tank to sink goes cold, wasting water and energy. None of this was mentioned in the expensive survey we had done before purchasing the house. Not ideal!
>>>>>> So: we have just had a Quooker instant boiling water device fitted under the sink, and it?s a revelation. No need for a kettle anymore, so that?s hibernating in a cupboard. Instant tea pot fill, hot water for saucepans, (saving hob gas), etc. After use, when bringing water back to boiling point it draws 1.3kW, taking about three minutes, and thereafter only 10W in standby mode. Three-way tap gives boiling, cold, mix of both, and/or hot from tank (eventually). Free installation took about 30 mins and freed up some under-sink cupboard space (tidying up some needlessly elaborate plastic sink drain pipes).
>>>>>> So far, highly recommended - wish we?d found it three and a half years ago.
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Nick.
>>>>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Oct 12 18:52:02 2022
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 00:52:02 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <f2ff52e3-715c-2e4d-eb1b-a4ec57e0caeb@gmail.com>
References: <B29C601D-FE39-4129-A684-95C4F0EA1FFB@me.com>
	<E80D8BDD-6531-499E-9558-F4A4EF8746F6@me.com>
	<f2ff52e3-715c-2e4d-eb1b-a4ec57e0caeb@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5447a2b8-b4f1-fc3f-b135-fd4f9179d4c9@btinternet.com>

The 'Ascot' gas water heater was a standard fixture in many kitchens in 
the 50's and 60's. Also the 'Baby Burco' boiler for larger amounts of 
boiling water. Cheers, Dave


From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Wed Oct 12 21:53:19 2022
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 03:53:19 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Water
In-Reply-To: <59b2f69d-e3d8-d824-d5e6-dffaabce6f1b@btinternet.com>
References: <AM9P191MB16049E9B5F281F32042D4507A7229@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<C5136D4B-03F5-4968-9DAE-B642C39B1E4D@me.com>
	<2a239b1d-816f-625c-fcf2-d759a74b4aa2@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<59b2f69d-e3d8-d824-d5e6-dffaabce6f1b@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJkQ67d9NykQ1ZfOd1SYC7hjLXXmDpqyg0-6W7N+S=3TVA@mail.gmail.com>

"We were always told that to make tea you needed freshly
boiled water however. Today, we are told that boiling water is bad for
coffee and tea as it scorches the leaves or beans! 80?C is recommended!
You just don't know where the next idea is coming from!"

Please tell us where the 80?C idea came from. I looked on the internet
because, some years ago, I had read that professionals recommend a
temperature (within 0.5?C) of a certain (now forgotten) temperature in the
90s (Celcius, as are all temperatures mentioned here). I found many
different opinions on the internet, but one thing stood out. There is no
single ideal coffee brewing temperature for all as the best temperature
depends on so many factors. These include the equipment used, the type of
beans (in particular, light or dark) and, of course, personal taste. Which
brings me to my own personal taste preference.

My original information suggested that water just off the boil was best,
and one point I remember in particular was that one shouldn't have any old
grounds present while brewing. Another guideline was to leave the brew for
some time for a fuller flavour. Well, I wanted a fuller flavour, so I used
to leave the coffee brewing for five to ten minutes. But, on a recent
occasion, I had little time available and brewed for only about a minute.
So I was surprised to find the resulting coffee had superb and subtle
flavours. And I now always brew for a shorter time with the same success.

I realised that, in brewing for a long time, I had eventually been brewing
with old coffee grounds present, which was not recommended (although the
consequences were not revealed). The most common recommended temperature I
found recently was 93?C, but please search the internet for advice as that
temperature will not suit everyone. And please note that at least one US
site does not convert correctly from ?F to ?C. The only firm advice I can
give is to avoid using percolators. These devices continually circulate hot
coffee until it is devoid of any real coffee flavour.
KW


On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 at 20:53, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> When we moved into our house in 1973 and one of the conditions of the
> mortgage was that it had to be rewired within 3 months. This I did,
> having had no experience of DIY house rebuilding but I learnt a lot fron
> the TVC workshops, and also on my re-gassing of the house and
> replumbing. We have never had a leak or any other problem. I built a new
> bathroom and the hotwater cylinder is next to the sink and you can count
> to three before you get hot water, slightly longer for the kitchen sink
> directly below.  We were always told that to make tea you needed freshly
> boiled water however. Today, we are told that boiling water is bad for
> coffee and tea as it scorches the leaves or beans! 80?C is recommended!
> You just don't know where the next idea is coming from! Cheers, Dave
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Oct 13 01:34:21 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 07:34:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Water
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJkQ67d9NykQ1ZfOd1SYC7hjLXXmDpqyg0-6W7N+S=3TVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJkQ67d9NykQ1ZfOd1SYC7hjLXXmDpqyg0-6W7N+S=3TVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AC61540F-17CF-4D27-BC3B-2362DF4D71D9@me.com>

A few years ago in Bath there used to be a tea establishment which took tea very seriously indeed.  Upon arrival, you were presented with a tea list which would put many wine lists to shame.  It was around 20 pages of A4, with detailed and florid descriptions of about six or seven teas per page.

When you made your selection, the staff would put the tea leaves into the optimum pot for that tea and pour on water which had been heated to the perfect temperature for that tea. They had a device somewhat like an espresso machine, but with a digital display to select the exact temperature and a spout to fill the pot.  The tea was delivered to your table accompanied by an electronic countdown timer which had been set according to that chosen tea. Customers were warned not to pour the tea until the timer announced that it was ready.

It was a quirky place to go for refreshment and quite fun too, but unfortunately it?s no longer trading. 

Alan 

> On 13 Oct 2022, at 03:54, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> "We were always told that to make tea you needed freshly
> boiled water however. Today, we are told that boiling water is bad for
> coffee and tea as it scorches the leaves or beans! 80?C is recommended!
> You just don't know where the next idea is coming from!"
> 
> Please tell us where the 80?C idea came from. I looked on the internet because, some years ago, I had read that professionals recommend a temperature (within 0.5?C) of a certain (now forgotten) temperature in the 90s (Celcius, as are all temperatures mentioned here). I found many different opinions on the internet, but one thing stood out. There is no single ideal coffee brewing temperature for all as the best temperature depends on so many factors. These include the equipment used, the type of beans (in particular, light or dark) and, of course, personal taste. Which brings me to my own personal taste preference. 
> 
> My original information suggested that water just off the boil was best, and one point I remember in particular was that one shouldn't have any old grounds present while brewing. Another guideline was to leave the brew for some time for a fuller flavour. Well, I wanted a fuller flavour, so I used to leave the coffee brewing for five to ten minutes. But, on a recent occasion, I had little time available and brewed for only about a minute. So I was surprised to find the resulting coffee had superb and subtle flavours. And I now always brew for a shorter time with the same success.
> 
> I realised that, in brewing for a long time, I had eventually been brewing with old coffee grounds present, which was not recommended (although the consequences were not revealed). The most common recommended temperature I found recently was 93?C, but please search the internet for advice as that temperature will not suit everyone. And please note that at least one US site does not convert correctly from ?F to ?C. The only firm advice I can give is to avoid using percolators. These devices continually circulate hot coffee until it is devoid of any real coffee flavour.
> KW
> 
> 
>> On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 at 20:53, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> When we moved into our house in 1973 and one of the conditions of the 
>> mortgage was that it had to be rewired within 3 months. This I did, 
>> having had no experience of DIY house rebuilding but I learnt a lot fron 
>> the TVC workshops, and also on my re-gassing of the house and 
>> replumbing. We have never had a leak or any other problem. I built a new 
>> bathroom and the hotwater cylinder is next to the sink and you can count 
>> to three before you get hot water, slightly longer for the kitchen sink 
>> directly below.  We were always told that to make tea you needed freshly 
>> boiled water however. Today, we are told that boiling water is bad for 
>> coffee and tea as it scorches the leaves or beans! 80?C is recommended!
>> You just don't know where the next idea is coming from! Cheers, Dave
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Oct 13 02:44:49 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 08:44:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Water
In-Reply-To: <AC61540F-17CF-4D27-BC3B-2362DF4D71D9@me.com>
References: <CAA=qGJkQ67d9NykQ1ZfOd1SYC7hjLXXmDpqyg0-6W7N+S=3TVA@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC61540F-17CF-4D27-BC3B-2362DF4D71D9@me.com>
Message-ID: <3e864dd9-f07a-977a-b196-216fbe926ced@amps.net>

An aged aunt had a teaspoon (well, it would be), which had a lid and was 
perforated into which one loaded it with loose leaf tealeaves.

Water had to be boiling, and always in a 'brown Betty' teapot which was 
warmed up by rinsing with the boiling water.

One never gets a decent cuppa in the high mountain areas of Switzerland 
and Austria, as water boils at a lower temperature,
the higher the altitude.

One thing I hate, which turns my stomach is when a cafe plonks a teabag 
into an already milked mug, so a pale liquid
results with the bag floating suspiciously like an Alien seed pod - ugh!

Pat H

On 13/10/2022 07:34, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> A few years ago in Bath there used to be a tea establishment which 
> took tea very seriously indeed. ?Upon arrival, you were presented with 
> a tea list which would put many wine lists to shame. ?It was around 20 
> pages of A4, with detailed and florid descriptions of about six or 
> seven teas per page.
>
> When you made your selection, the staff would put the tea leaves into 
> the optimum pot for that tea and pour on water which had been heated 
> to the perfect temperature for that tea. They had a device somewhat 
> like an espresso machine, but with a digital display to select the 
> exact temperature and a spout to fill the pot. ?The tea was delivered 
> to your table accompanied by an electronic countdown timer which had 
> been set according to that chosen tea. Customers were warned not to 
> pour the tea until the timer announced that it was ready.
>
> It was a quirky place to go for refreshment and quite fun too, but 
> unfortunately it?s no longer trading.
>
> Alan
>
>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 03:54, Keith Wicks via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> "We were always told that to make tea you needed freshly
>> boiled water however. Today, we are told that boiling water is bad for
>> coffee and tea as it scorches the leaves or beans! 80?C is recommended!
>> You just don't know where the next idea is coming from!"
>>
>> Please tell us where the 80?C?idea came from. I looked on the 
>> internet because, some years ago, I had read that professionals 
>> recommend a temperature (within 0.5?C) of a certain (now forgotten) 
>> temperature in the 90s (Celcius, as are all temperatures mentioned 
>> here). I found many different opinions on the internet, but one thing 
>> stood out. There is no single ideal coffee brewing temperature for 
>> all as the best temperature depends on so many factors. These include 
>> the equipment used, the type of beans (in particular, light or dark) 
>> and, of course, personal taste. Which brings me to my own personal 
>> taste preference.
>>
>> My original information suggested that water just off the boil was 
>> best, and one point I remember in particular was that one shouldn't 
>> have any old grounds present while brewing. Another guideline was to 
>> leave the brew for some time for a fuller flavour. Well, I wanted a 
>> fuller flavour, so I used to leave the coffee brewing for five to ten 
>> minutes. But, on a recent occasion, I had little time available and 
>> brewed for only about a minute. So I was surprised to find the 
>> resulting coffee had superb and subtle flavours. And I now always 
>> brew for a shorter time with the same success.
>>
>> I realised that, in brewing for a long time, I had eventually been 
>> brewing with old coffee grounds present, which was not recommended 
>> (although the consequences were not revealed). The most common 
>> recommended temperature I found recently was 93?C, but please search 
>> the internet for advice as that temperature will not suit everyone. 
>> And please note that at least one US site does not convert correctly 
>> from ?F to ?C. The only firm advice I can give is to avoid using 
>> percolators. These devices continually circulate hot coffee until it 
>> is devoid of any real coffee flavour.
>> KW
>>
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Oct 13 02:47:59 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 08:47:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <5447a2b8-b4f1-fc3f-b135-fd4f9179d4c9@btinternet.com>
References: <B29C601D-FE39-4129-A684-95C4F0EA1FFB@me.com>
	<E80D8BDD-6531-499E-9558-F4A4EF8746F6@me.com>
	<f2ff52e3-715c-2e4d-eb1b-a4ec57e0caeb@gmail.com>
	<5447a2b8-b4f1-fc3f-b135-fd4f9179d4c9@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <21c0bdbc-e843-a7ad-a344-5d450c8f23b3@amps.net>

One keeps an animal pet in the bathroom or kitchen, as the Ascot is a 
Water 'otter!

Pat H

On 13/10/2022 00:52, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
> The 'Ascot' gas water heater was a standard fixture in many kitchens 
> in the 50's and 60's. Also the 'Baby Burco' boiler for larger amounts 
> of boiling water. Cheers, Dave
>
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Thu Oct 13 02:48:46 2022
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 08:48:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Water
In-Reply-To: <3e864dd9-f07a-977a-b196-216fbe926ced@amps.net>
References: <CAA=qGJkQ67d9NykQ1ZfOd1SYC7hjLXXmDpqyg0-6W7N+S=3TVA@mail.gmail.com>
	<AC61540F-17CF-4D27-BC3B-2362DF4D71D9@me.com>
	<3e864dd9-f07a-977a-b196-216fbe926ced@amps.net>
Message-ID: <F07C7FF7-6246-4264-98FB-EF732AAC8E18@icloud.com>

I lived in Nairobi as a teenager and you can?t get a decent cuppa there, water boils at 95?. Plays havock with calorimetry problems in practical physics exams as well!


> On 13 Oct 2022, at 08:44, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> An aged aunt had a teaspoon (well, it would be), which had a lid and was perforated into which one loaded it with loose leaf tealeaves.
> 
> Water had to be boiling, and always in a 'brown Betty' teapot which was warmed up by rinsing with the boiling water.
> 
> One never gets a decent cuppa in the high mountain areas of Switzerland and Austria, as water boils at a lower temperature,
> the higher the altitude.
> 
> One thing I hate, which turns my stomach is when a cafe plonks a teabag into an already milked mug, so a pale liquid
> results with the bag floating suspiciously like an Alien seed pod - ugh!
> 
> Pat H
> 
> On 13/10/2022 07:34, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> A few years ago in Bath there used to be a tea establishment which took tea very seriously indeed.  Upon arrival, you were presented with a tea list which would put many wine lists to shame.  It was around 20 pages of A4, with detailed and florid descriptions of about six or seven teas per page.
>> 
>> When you made your selection, the staff would put the tea leaves into the optimum pot for that tea and pour on water which had been heated to the perfect temperature for that tea. They had a device somewhat like an espresso machine, but with a digital display to select the exact temperature and a spout to fill the pot.  The tea was delivered to your table accompanied by an electronic countdown timer which had been set according to that chosen tea. Customers were warned not to pour the tea until the timer announced that it was ready.
>> 
>> It was a quirky place to go for refreshment and quite fun too, but unfortunately it?s no longer trading. 
>> 
>> Alan 
>> 
>>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 03:54, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> "We were always told that to make tea you needed freshly
>>> boiled water however. Today, we are told that boiling water is bad for
>>> coffee and tea as it scorches the leaves or beans! 80?C is recommended!
>>> You just don't know where the next idea is coming from!"
>>> 
>>> Please tell us where the 80?C idea came from. I looked on the internet because, some years ago, I had read that professionals recommend a temperature (within 0.5?C) of a certain (now forgotten) temperature in the 90s (Celcius, as are all temperatures mentioned here). I found many different opinions on the internet, but one thing stood out. There is no single ideal coffee brewing temperature for all as the best temperature depends on so many factors. These include the equipment used, the type of beans (in particular, light or dark) and, of course, personal taste. Which brings me to my own personal taste preference. 
>>> 
>>> My original information suggested that water just off the boil was best, and one point I remember in particular was that one shouldn't have any old grounds present while brewing. Another guideline was to leave the brew for some time for a fuller flavour. Well, I wanted a fuller flavour, so I used to leave the coffee brewing for five to ten minutes. But, on a recent occasion, I had little time available and brewed for only about a minute. So I was surprised to find the resulting coffee had superb and subtle flavours. And I now always brew for a shorter time with the same success.
>>> 
>>> I realised that, in brewing for a long time, I had eventually been brewing with old coffee grounds present, which was not recommended (although the consequences were not revealed). The most common recommended temperature I found recently was 93?C, but please search the internet for advice as that temperature will not suit everyone. And please note that at least one US site does not convert correctly from ?F to ?C. The only firm advice I can give is to avoid using percolators. These devices continually circulate hot coffee until it is devoid of any real coffee flavour.
>>> KW
>>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Oct 13 02:53:35 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 08:53:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <CF003B3288CE46B6A6ED7D8FF90E1B87@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <5AD6A9AE-4B19-4CA5-A07C-AE5C92A34E42@talktalk.net>
	<B29C601D-FE39-4129-A684-95C4F0EA1FFB@me.com>
	<CF003B3288CE46B6A6ED7D8FF90E1B87@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <1ecaf8a9-4157-e72b-5603-ee31e4f3c5c2@amps.net>

Yep, One block of flats in my small estate had a first floor window to 
its landing, which our window cleaner wouldn't do the outside as there 
was a pitched roof outside making it difficult to access.

A 'tilt and turn' was fitted, which opens inwards, so the outer surface 
is easily cleaned.

Pat H

On 12/10/2022 23:50, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
> This form of window, known in the UK as 'tilt and turn' has been 
> available here for many years and really has a great deal going for 
> it. Often unnoticed by the passer-by as of course in the static state 
> there is nothing likely to draw attention other than when in open 
> 'turn' mode they are inwards as you say but even that is easily missed.
>
> Dave Newbitt.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2022 6:49 PM
> To: tech1
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Energy
>
>
>
> On a more upbeat note, I?m a great fan of continental style windows.? 
> They are normally double or triple glazed to an excellent standard, 
> but the feature I particularly like is the two way opening mechanism.? 
> Turn the handle one way and the window is hinged at the bottom, the 
> top opens just a little for ventilation.? Turn it the other way and 
> the window becomes side hinged and fully opens ( inwards ), which 
> makes it very easy to clean.? Some window frames also include integral 
> pull down bug screens and / or sunshades or security shutters. I?d 
> gladly swap the windows in my house for those, but I live in a 
> conservation area and we would need to get planning permission even 
> for minor changes. Besides, such windows would be totally out of 
> keeping with the rest of our house and I would never want to make such 
> a change here.? Our council currently takes an exceedingly dim view of 
> upgrading to more efficient double glazed systems with similar wooden 
> frames, even if they are sympathetically chosen to look almost 
> identical to what was there before.? I?m hoping that home insulation 
> issues will soon take precedence over obsessive preservation of the 
> external appearance.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Thu Oct 13 03:19:55 2022
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 09:19:55 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Energy
In-Reply-To: <CF003B3288CE46B6A6ED7D8FF90E1B87@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <5AD6A9AE-4B19-4CA5-A07C-AE5C92A34E42@talktalk.net><B29C601D-FE39-4129-A684-95C4F0EA1FFB@me.com>
	<CF003B3288CE46B6A6ED7D8FF90E1B87@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <9BED03F81A3B455BA112FC01DB8B276D@Gigabyte>

All the windows in our local Conservative Offices (where I help out with our 
Talking Newspapers office) have recently been replaced and for security the 
bottom section (they looks a bit like fake sash ones to comply with planning 
regs) doesn't open except for a few inches for safety reasons I suspect. 
However if it needs to open there is a tiny lever inside the frame so that 
they can be fire escapes. Shame the installers didn't tell anyone! All 
around the place are now fire sensors but no instructions for the alarm 
panel.
Just been in there as well investigating roof leaks - but not on top of the 
W95 PC in the "control room" to our studio with its 4 mics and home-made "on 
air or next person to speak" box.
Used to take turns recording to send out about 100USB sticks but that has 
been on hold during teh pandemic and gone on internet.

Mike


-----Original Message----- 
From: David Newbitt via Tech1
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2022 11:50 PM
To: Alan Taylor ; tech1
Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Energy

This form of window, known in the UK as 'tilt and turn' has been available
here for many years and really has a great deal going for it. Often
unnoticed by the passer-by as of course in the static state there is nothing
likely to draw attention other than when in open 'turn' mode they are
inwards as you say but even that is easily missed.

Dave Newbitt.



From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Oct 13 03:41:34 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 09:41:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Water
In-Reply-To: <3e864dd9-f07a-977a-b196-216fbe926ced@amps.net>
References: <3e864dd9-f07a-977a-b196-216fbe926ced@amps.net>
Message-ID: <D9853207-F57A-4C87-A976-AD54DD70955B@me.com>

The lower temperature of boiling water at high elevations is also a problem when boiling eggs in Alpine resorts.  An egg boiled for four minutes at a high altitude will still be virtually raw. Cooking times need to be greatly extended. You can still get a decent boiled egg by boiling it for longer, but you can?t get a decent cup of tea by infusing it for longer if the boiling point is lower.

I once stayed in M?rren in Switzerland. The hotel was more that 1600 metres above sea level where the low atmospheric pressure reduces the normal boiling point to 94?

Alan


> On 13 Oct 2022, at 08:44, Pat Heigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> An aged aunt had a teaspoon (well, it would be), which had a lid and was perforated into which one loaded it with loose leaf tealeaves.
> 
> Water had to be boiling, and always in a 'brown Betty' teapot which was warmed up by rinsing with the boiling water.
> 
> One never gets a decent cuppa in the high mountain areas of Switzerland and Austria, as water boils at a lower temperature,
> the higher the altitude.
> 
> One thing I hate, which turns my stomach is when a cafe plonks a teabag into an already milked mug, so a pale liquid
> results with the bag floating suspiciously like an Alien seed pod - ugh!
> 
> Pat H
> 
> On 13/10/2022 07:34, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> A few years ago in Bath there used to be a tea establishment which took tea very seriously indeed.  Upon arrival, you were presented with a tea list which would put many wine lists to shame.  It was around 20 pages of A4, with detailed and florid descriptions of about six or seven teas per page.
>> 
>> When you made your selection, the staff would put the tea leaves into the optimum pot for that tea and pour on water which had been heated to the perfect temperature for that tea. They had a device somewhat like an espresso machine, but with a digital display to select the exact temperature and a spout to fill the pot.  The tea was delivered to your table accompanied by an electronic countdown timer which had been set according to that chosen tea. Customers were warned not to pour the tea until the timer announced that it was ready.
>> 
>> It was a quirky place to go for refreshment and quite fun too, but unfortunately it?s no longer trading. 
>> 
>> Alan 
>> 
>>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 03:54, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> "We were always told that to make tea you needed freshly
>>> boiled water however. Today, we are told that boiling water is bad for
>>> coffee and tea as it scorches the leaves or beans! 80?C is recommended!
>>> You just don't know where the next idea is coming from!"
>>> 
>>> Please tell us where the 80?C idea came from. I looked on the internet because, some years ago, I had read that professionals recommend a temperature (within 0.5?C) of a certain (now forgotten) temperature in the 90s (Celcius, as are all temperatures mentioned here). I found many different opinions on the internet, but one thing stood out. There is no single ideal coffee brewing temperature for all as the best temperature depends on so many factors. These include the equipment used, the type of beans (in particular, light or dark) and, of course, personal taste. Which brings me to my own personal taste preference. 
>>> 
>>> My original information suggested that water just off the boil was best, and one point I remember in particular was that one shouldn't have any old grounds present while brewing. Another guideline was to leave the brew for some time for a fuller flavour. Well, I wanted a fuller flavour, so I used to leave the coffee brewing for five to ten minutes. But, on a recent occasion, I had little time available and brewed for only about a minute. So I was surprised to find the resulting coffee had superb and subtle flavours. And I now always brew for a shorter time with the same success.
>>> 
>>> I realised that, in brewing for a long time, I had eventually been brewing with old coffee grounds present, which was not recommended (although the consequences were not revealed). The most common recommended temperature I found recently was 93?C, but please search the internet for advice as that temperature will not suit everyone. And please note that at least one US site does not convert correctly from ?F to ?C. The only firm advice I can give is to avoid using percolators. These devices continually circulate hot coffee until it is devoid of any real coffee flavour.
>>> KW
>>> 
>> 
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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Thu Oct 13 04:13:00 2022
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 10:13:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Water
In-Reply-To: <D9853207-F57A-4C87-A976-AD54DD70955B@me.com>
References: <D9853207-F57A-4C87-A976-AD54DD70955B@me.com>
Message-ID: <F7D54F16-B6DF-4C86-BDAA-BD0F1BF8B342@zero51.force9.co.uk>

Absolutely Alan, and its the second most important reason that I go down to the kitchen to make that first cup of tea in the morning

Peter Fox

On 13 Oct 2022, at 09:41, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
The lower temperature of boiling water at high elevations is also a problem when boiling eggs in Alpine resorts.  An egg boiled for four minutes at a high altitude will still be virtually raw. Cooking times need to be greatly extended. You can still get a decent boiled egg by boiling it for longer, but you can?t get a decent cup of tea by infusing it for longer if the boiling point is lower.

I once stayed in M?rren in Switzerland. The hotel was more that 1600 metres above sea level where the low atmospheric pressure reduces the normal boiling point to 94?

Alan


> On 13 Oct 2022, at 08:44, Pat Heigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> An aged aunt had a teaspoon (well, it would be), which had a lid and was perforated into which one loaded it with loose leaf tealeaves.
> 
> Water had to be boiling, and always in a 'brown Betty' teapot which was warmed up by rinsing with the boiling water.
> 
> One never gets a decent cuppa in the high mountain areas of Switzerland and Austria, as water boils at a lower temperature,
> the higher the altitude.
> 
> One thing I hate, which turns my stomach is when a cafe plonks a teabag into an already milked mug, so a pale liquid
> results with the bag floating suspiciously like an Alien seed pod - ugh!
> 
> Pat H
> 
> On 13/10/2022 07:34, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> A few years ago in Bath there used to be a tea establishment which took tea very seriously indeed.  Upon arrival, you were presented with a tea list which would put many wine lists to shame.  It was around 20 pages of A4, with detailed and florid descriptions of about six or seven teas per page.
>> 
>> When you made your selection, the staff would put the tea leaves into the optimum pot for that tea and pour on water which had been heated to the perfect temperature for that tea. They had a device somewhat like an espresso machine, but with a digital display to select the exact temperature and a spout to fill the pot.  The tea was delivered to your table accompanied by an electronic countdown timer which had been set according to that chosen tea. Customers were warned not to pour the tea until the timer announced that it was ready.
>> 
>> It was a quirky place to go for refreshment and quite fun too, but unfortunately it?s no longer trading. 
>> 
>> Alan 
>> 
>>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 03:54, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> "We were always told that to make tea you needed freshly
>>> boiled water however. Today, we are told that boiling water is bad for
>>> coffee and tea as it scorches the leaves or beans! 80?C is recommended!
>>> You just don't know where the next idea is coming from!"
>>> 
>>> Please tell us where the 80?C idea came from. I looked on the internet because, some years ago, I had read that professionals recommend a temperature (within 0.5?C) of a certain (now forgotten) temperature in the 90s (Celcius, as are all temperatures mentioned here). I found many different opinions on the internet, but one thing stood out. There is no single ideal coffee brewing temperature for all as the best temperature depends on so many factors. These include the equipment used, the type of beans (in particular, light or dark) and, of course, personal taste. Which brings me to my own personal taste preference. 
>>> 
>>> My original information suggested that water just off the boil was best, and one point I remember in particular was that one shouldn't have any old grounds present while brewing. Another guideline was to leave the brew for some time for a fuller flavour. Well, I wanted a fuller flavour, so I used to leave the coffee brewing for five to ten minutes. But, on a recent occasion, I had little time available and brewed for only about a minute. So I was surprised to find the resulting coffee had superb and subtle flavours. And I now always brew for a shorter time with the same success.
>>> 
>>> I realised that, in brewing for a long time, I had eventually been brewing with old coffee grounds present, which was not recommended (although the consequences were not revealed). The most common recommended temperature I found recently was 93?C, but please search the internet for advice as that temperature will not suit everyone. And please note that at least one US site does not convert correctly from ?F to ?C. The only firm advice I can give is to avoid using percolators. These devices continually circulate hot coffee until it is devoid of any real coffee flavour.
>>> KW
>>> 
>> 
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Thu Oct 13 04:29:38 2022
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 10:29:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Water
In-Reply-To: <F7D54F16-B6DF-4C86-BDAA-BD0F1BF8B342@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <D9853207-F57A-4C87-A976-AD54DD70955B@me.com>
	<F7D54F16-B6DF-4C86-BDAA-BD0F1BF8B342@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FFF51A23035C4326A259505123BF62F8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

No place for the dreaded Goblin ?Teasmade? then. Do you remember the racket they made coming to the boil? Enough to put you off your tea.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Peter Fox via Tech1 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 10:13 AM
To: Alan Taylor 
Cc: tech1 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Water

Absolutely Alan, and its the second most important reason that I go down to the kitchen to make that first cup of tea in the morning


Peter Fox

On 13 Oct 2022, at 09:41, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


? 
The lower temperature of boiling water at high elevations is also a problem when boiling eggs in Alpine resorts.  An egg boiled for four minutes at a high altitude will still be virtually raw. Cooking times need to be greatly extended. You can still get a decent boiled egg by boiling it for longer, but you can?t get a decent cup of tea by infusing it for longer if the boiling point is lower.

I once stayed in M?rren in Switzerland. The hotel was more that 1600 metres above sea level where the low atmospheric pressure reduces the normal boiling point to 94?

Alan



  On 13 Oct 2022, at 08:44, Pat Heigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:


  ? 
  An aged aunt had a teaspoon (well, it would be), which had a lid and was perforated into which one loaded it with loose leaf tealeaves.

  Water had to be boiling, and always in a 'brown Betty' teapot which was warmed up by rinsing with the boiling water.

  One never gets a decent cuppa in the high mountain areas of Switzerland and Austria, as water boils at a lower temperature,
  the higher the altitude.

  One thing I hate, which turns my stomach is when a cafe plonks a teabag into an already milked mug, so a pale liquid
  results with the bag floating suspiciously like an Alien seed pod - ugh!

  Pat H


  On 13/10/2022 07:34, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:

    A few years ago in Bath there used to be a tea establishment which took tea very seriously indeed.  Upon arrival, you were presented with a tea list which would put many wine lists to shame.  It was around 20 pages of A4, with detailed and florid descriptions of about six or seven teas per page.

    When you made your selection, the staff would put the tea leaves into the optimum pot for that tea and pour on water which had been heated to the perfect temperature for that tea. They had a device somewhat like an espresso machine, but with a digital display to select the exact temperature and a spout to fill the pot.  The tea was delivered to your table accompanied by an electronic countdown timer which had been set according to that chosen tea. Customers were warned not to pour the tea until the timer announced that it was ready.

    It was a quirky place to go for refreshment and quite fun too, but unfortunately it?s no longer trading. 

    Alan 


      On 13 Oct 2022, at 03:54, Keith Wicks via Tech1 mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk wrote:


      ? 
      "We were always told that to make tea you needed freshly
      boiled water however. Today, we are told that boiling water is bad for
      coffee and tea as it scorches the leaves or beans! 80?C is recommended!
      You just don't know where the next idea is coming from!"



      Please tell us where the 80?C idea came from. I looked on the internet because, some years ago, I had read that professionals recommend a temperature (within 0.5?C) of a certain (now forgotten) temperature in the 90s (Celcius, as are all temperatures mentioned here). I found many different opinions on the internet, but one thing stood out. There is no single ideal coffee brewing temperature for all as the best temperature depends on so many factors. These include the equipment used, the type of beans (in particular, light or dark) and, of course, personal taste. Which brings me to my own personal taste preference. 


      My original information suggested that water just off the boil was best, and one point I remember in particular was that one shouldn't have any old grounds present while brewing. Another guideline was to leave the brew for some time for a fuller flavour. Well, I wanted a fuller flavour, so I used to leave the coffee brewing for five to ten minutes. But, on a recent occasion, I had little time available and brewed for only about a minute. So I was surprised to find the resulting coffee had superb and subtle flavours. And I now always brew for a shorter time with the same success.


      I realised that, in brewing for a long time, I had eventually been brewing with old coffee grounds present, which was not recommended (although the consequences were not revealed). The most common recommended temperature I found recently was 93?C, but please search the internet for advice as that temperature will not suit everyone. And please note that at least one US site does not convert correctly from ?F to ?C. The only firm advice I can give is to avoid using percolators. These devices continually circulate hot coffee until it is devoid of any real coffee flavour.
      KW




-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Thu Oct 13 04:42:44 2022
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 10:42:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Water
In-Reply-To: <FFF51A23035C4326A259505123BF62F8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <FFF51A23035C4326A259505123BF62F8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <0BCDEC0F-7D6D-4119-AC27-DEF8ED56FB0F@zero51.force9.co.uk>

No. Back in the day, when my son Ben was about 13 or so he got the idea that a Teasmade in his bedroom would would be a really cool idea. We found one in a bric a brac/ charity shop I think?
It lasted about a week before the complications of setting it up, taking water upstairs, bringing it down to clean it out completely cancelled the  transient pleasure of waking to a morning cuppa. End of.

Peter Fox

On 13 Oct 2022, at 10:30, David Newbitt <dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net> wrote:

?
No place for the dreaded Goblin ?Teasmade? then. Do you remember the racket they made coming to the boil? Enough to put you off your tea

From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Oct 13 05:12:20 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 11:12:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Water
In-Reply-To: <FFF51A23035C4326A259505123BF62F8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <FFF51A23035C4326A259505123BF62F8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <B2F81EBA-7000-48FB-8D2A-850F424A184C@me.com>

My first wife and I were once given a Teasmade.  The principle seems good enough, but in reality the gurgling and boiling of the water woke us up long before the alarm.  The steam pressure builds to squirt water into the pot with appropriate industrial sound effects and at that moment it triggers the alarm just in case it hasn?t already woken you up.

Of course you can?t drink the tea straight away because it hasn?t brewed, but while it brews, you snooze and by the time you wake up again, the tea is lukewarm. The simple fix would have been to trigger the alarm five minutes after the pot had been filled.

The other drawback was that in very hot weather, a little jug of milk would go off overnight, so you either needed an upstairs fridge, or had to go down to the kitchen for fresh milk, which kind of defeated the idea of having tea in bed.

We get round much of it these days by using home automation.  A smart plug in the kitchen powers the kettle which last thing at night is filled with water and primed to go. When Janet is doing an early start, there is a sequence of the radio switching on at a certain time, lights coming on if it?s dark and the kettle getting switched on ready for whoever is first downstairs.  On other days, we just trigger it from a phone when we wake up and a light in the bedroom comes on after a few minutes to remind us that the water should have boiled. The neat part is that the automation script takes an input from her phone calendar. If she is scheduled to work on a given day, it all happens automatically at the appropriate time with no need to set an alarm the night before, but if she isn?t working, we choose when to trigger it in the morning.

Alan


> On 13 Oct 2022, at 10:29, David Newbitt <dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> No place for the dreaded Goblin ?Teasmade? then. Do you remember the racket they made coming to the boil? Enough to put you off your tea.
>  
> Dave Newbitt.
>  
> From: Peter Fox via Tech1
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 10:13 AM
> To: Alan Taylor
> Cc: tech1
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Water
>  
> Absolutely Alan, and its the second most important reason that I go down to the kitchen to make that first cup of tea in the morning
> 
> Peter Fox
> 
> On 13 Oct 2022, at 09:41, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> The lower temperature of boiling water at high elevations is also a problem when boiling eggs in Alpine resorts.  An egg boiled for four minutes at a high altitude will still be virtually raw. Cooking times need to be greatly extended. You can still get a decent boiled egg by boiling it for longer, but you can?t get a decent cup of tea by infusing it for longer if the boiling point is lower.
>  
> I once stayed in M?rren in Switzerland. The hotel was more that 1600 metres above sea level where the low atmospheric pressure reduces the normal boiling point to 94?
>  
> Alan
>  
> 
>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 08:44, Pat Heigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> An aged aunt had a teaspoon (well, it would be), which had a lid and was perforated into which one loaded it with loose leaf tealeaves.
>> 
>> Water had to be boiling, and always in a 'brown Betty' teapot which was warmed up by rinsing with the boiling water.
>> 
>> One never gets a decent cuppa in the high mountain areas of Switzerland and Austria, as water boils at a lower temperature,
>> the higher the altitude.
>> 
>> One thing I hate, which turns my stomach is when a cafe plonks a teabag into an already milked mug, so a pale liquid
>> results with the bag floating suspiciously like an Alien seed pod - ugh!
>> 
>> Pat H
>> 
>> On 13/10/2022 07:34, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>> A few years ago in Bath there used to be a tea establishment which took tea very seriously indeed.  Upon arrival, you were presented with a tea list which would put many wine lists to shame.  It was around 20 pages of A4, with detailed and florid descriptions of about six or seven teas per page.
>>>  
>>> When you made your selection, the staff would put the tea leaves into the optimum pot for that tea and pour on water which had been heated to the perfect temperature for that tea. They had a device somewhat like an espresso machine, but with a digital display to select the exact temperature and a spout to fill the pot.  The tea was delivered to your table accompanied by an electronic countdown timer which had been set according to that chosen tea. Customers were warned not to pour the tea until the timer announced that it was ready.
>>>  
>>> It was a quirky place to go for refreshment and quite fun too, but unfortunately it?s no longer trading.
>>>  
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 03:54, Keith Wicks via Tech1 mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> "We were always told that to make tea you needed freshly
>>>> boiled water however. Today, we are told that boiling water is bad for
>>>> coffee and tea as it scorches the leaves or beans! 80?C is recommended!
>>>> You just don't know where the next idea is coming from!"
>>>> 
>>>> Please tell us where the 80?C idea came from. I looked on the internet because, some years ago, I had read that professionals recommend a temperature (within 0.5?C) of a certain (now forgotten) temperature in the 90s (Celcius, as are all temperatures mentioned here). I found many different opinions on the internet, but one thing stood out. There is no single ideal coffee brewing temperature for all as the best temperature depends on so many factors. These include the equipment used, the type of beans (in particular, light or dark) and, of course, personal taste. Which brings me to my own personal taste preference.
>>>> 
>>>> My original information suggested that water just off the boil was best, and one point I remember in particular was that one shouldn't have any old grounds present while brewing. Another guideline was to leave the brew for some time for a fuller flavour. Well, I wanted a fuller flavour, so I used to leave the coffee brewing for five to ten minutes. But, on a recent occasion, I had little time available and brewed for only about a minute. So I was surprised to find the resulting coffee had superb and subtle flavours. And I now always brew for a shorter time with the same success.
>>>> 
>>>> I realised that, in brewing for a long time, I had eventually been brewing with old coffee grounds present, which was not recommended (although the consequences were not revealed). The most common recommended temperature I found recently was 93?C, but please search the internet for advice as that temperature will not suit everyone. And please note that at least one US site does not convert correctly from ?F to ?C. The only firm advice I can give is to avoid using percolators. These devices continually circulate hot coffee until it is devoid of any real coffee flavour.
>>>> KW
>>>> 
>>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Thu Oct 13 06:37:43 2022
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 12:37:43 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Blue plaque for BBC TV pioneer Grace Wyndham Goldie - BBC
 News
Message-ID: <0C1194D9672946C18DBDC60D7ADF8C2B@Gigabyte>

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-63242617
Nice little camera in shot!
Also 
Lost Desert Island Discs: Collector finds more than 90 missing recordings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63215698
Mike
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From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Oct 13 07:17:34 2022
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 13:17:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Water
In-Reply-To: <B2F81EBA-7000-48FB-8D2A-850F424A184C@me.com>
References: <B2F81EBA-7000-48FB-8D2A-850F424A184C@me.com>
Message-ID: <121CF5C4-B990-4065-BFB7-E594B693A116@mac.com>

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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Oct 13 07:57:58 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 13:57:58 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Water
In-Reply-To: <DB8940E16E604889B95AB0C916B25E25@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <DB8940E16E604889B95AB0C916B25E25@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <74A77583-F551-4568-96BB-934E590CF613@me.com>

There is no chance of getting a car into my garage.  In the absence of a proper workshop, my garage has to serve as my workshop and there is no room for a car.

Home automations is quite good if you can create simple scripts to do useful tasks.  The scripts can be conditional so that one process only happens if certain conditions are met ( such as it?s dark and nobody is at home ). I?m currently only controlling lamps or devices which can be controlled via a smart switch and I built a few home made sensors too ( motion detectors and door sensors ), but once the Matter Protocol is launched this autumn, it should allow any compliant smart devices to work across all platforms.  Smart devices should become cheaper and more widely available.

Alan


> On 13 Oct 2022, at 11:56, David Newbitt <dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Yes Alan, your description of the Teasmade process is both graphic and precise. Off to a tee one might say.
>  
> Completely floored by your domestic arrangements to start each day. Wouldn?t be surprised if the garage door opened as appropriate with both engine and car interior pre-warmed and the SatNav already knowing where you?re going!
>  
> Dave Newbitt.
>  
> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 11:12 AM
> To: tech1
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Water
>  
> My first wife and I were once given a Teasmade.  The principle seems good enough, but in reality the gurgling and boiling of the water woke us up long before the alarm.  The steam pressure builds to squirt water into the pot with appropriate industrial sound effects and at that moment it triggers the alarm just in case it hasn?t already woken you up.
>  
> Of course you can?t drink the tea straight away because it hasn?t brewed, but while it brews, you snooze and by the time you wake up again, the tea is lukewarm. The simple fix would have been to trigger the alarm five minutes after the pot had been filled.
>  
> The other drawback was that in very hot weather, a little jug of milk would go off overnight, so you either needed an upstairs fridge, or had to go down to the kitchen for fresh milk, which kind of defeated the idea of having tea in bed.
>  
> We get round much of it these days by using home automation.  A smart plug in the kitchen powers the kettle which last thing at night is filled with water and primed to go. When Janet is doing an early start, there is a sequence of the radio switching on at a certain time, lights coming on if it?s dark and the kettle getting switched on ready for whoever is first downstairs.  On other days, we just trigger it from a phone when we wake up and a light in the bedroom comes on after a few minutes to remind us that the water should have boiled. The neat part is that the automation script takes an input from her phone calendar. If she is scheduled to work on a given day, it all happens automatically at the appropriate time with no need to set an alarm the night before, but if she isn?t working, we choose when to trigger it in the morning.
>  
> Alan
>  
> 
>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 10:29, David Newbitt <dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> No place for the dreaded Goblin ?Teasmade? then. Do you remember the racket they made coming to the boil? Enough to put you off your tea.
>>  
>> Dave Newbitt.
>>  
>> From: Peter Fox via Tech1
>> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 10:13 AM
>> To: Alan Taylor
>> Cc: tech1
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Water
>>  
>> Absolutely Alan, and its the second most important reason that I go down to the kitchen to make that first cup of tea in the morning
>> 
>> Peter Fox
>> 
>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 09:41, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> The lower temperature of boiling water at high elevations is also a problem when boiling eggs in Alpine resorts.  An egg boiled for four minutes at a high altitude will still be virtually raw. Cooking times need to be greatly extended. You can still get a decent boiled egg by boiling it for longer, but you can?t get a decent cup of tea by infusing it for longer if the boiling point is lower.
>>  
>> I once stayed in M?rren in Switzerland. The hotel was more that 1600 metres above sea level where the low atmospheric pressure reduces the normal boiling point to 94?
>>  
>> Alan
>>  
>> 
>>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 08:44, Pat Heigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> An aged aunt had a teaspoon (well, it would be), which had a lid and was perforated into which one loaded it with loose leaf tealeaves.
>>> 
>>> Water had to be boiling, and always in a 'brown Betty' teapot which was warmed up by rinsing with the boiling water.
>>> 
>>> One never gets a decent cuppa in the high mountain areas of Switzerland and Austria, as water boils at a lower temperature,
>>> the higher the altitude.
>>> 
>>> One thing I hate, which turns my stomach is when a cafe plonks a teabag into an already milked mug, so a pale liquid
>>> results with the bag floating suspiciously like an Alien seed pod - ugh!
>>> 
>>> Pat H
>>> 
>>> On 13/10/2022 07:34, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> A few years ago in Bath there used to be a tea establishment which took tea very seriously indeed.  Upon arrival, you were presented with a tea list which would put many wine lists to shame.  It was around 20 pages of A4, with detailed and florid descriptions of about six or seven teas per page.
>>>>  
>>>> When you made your selection, the staff would put the tea leaves into the optimum pot for that tea and pour on water which had been heated to the perfect temperature for that tea. They had a device somewhat like an espresso machine, but with a digital display to select the exact temperature and a spout to fill the pot.  The tea was delivered to your table accompanied by an electronic countdown timer which had been set according to that chosen tea. Customers were warned not to pour the tea until the timer announced that it was ready.
>>>>  
>>>> It was a quirky place to go for refreshment and quite fun too, but unfortunately it?s no longer trading.
>>>>  
>>>> Alan
>>>> 
>>>>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 03:54, Keith Wicks via Tech1 mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?
>>>>> "We were always told that to make tea you needed freshly
>>>>> boiled water however. Today, we are told that boiling water is bad for
>>>>> coffee and tea as it scorches the leaves or beans! 80?C is recommended!
>>>>> You just don't know where the next idea is coming from!"
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please tell us where the 80?C idea came from. I looked on the internet because, some years ago, I had read that professionals recommend a temperature (within 0.5?C) of a certain (now forgotten) temperature in the 90s (Celcius, as are all temperatures mentioned here). I found many different opinions on the internet, but one thing stood out. There is no single ideal coffee brewing temperature for all as the best temperature depends on so many factors. These include the equipment used, the type of beans (in particular, light or dark) and, of course, personal taste. Which brings me to my own personal taste preference.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My original information suggested that water just off the boil was best, and one point I remember in particular was that one shouldn't have any old grounds present while brewing. Another guideline was to leave the brew for some time for a fuller flavour. Well, I wanted a fuller flavour, so I used to leave the coffee brewing for five to ten minutes. But, on a recent occasion, I had little time available and brewed for only about a minute. So I was surprised to find the resulting coffee had superb and subtle flavours. And I now always brew for a shorter time with the same success.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I realised that, in brewing for a long time, I had eventually been brewing with old coffee grounds present, which was not recommended (although the consequences were not revealed). The most common recommended temperature I found recently was 93?C, but please search the internet for advice as that temperature will not suit everyone. And please note that at least one US site does not convert correctly from ?F to ?C. The only firm advice I can give is to avoid using percolators. These devices continually circulate hot coffee until it is devoid of any real coffee flavour.
>>>>> KW
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Thu Oct 13 08:00:36 2022
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 14:00:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Water
In-Reply-To: <74A77583-F551-4568-96BB-934E590CF613@me.com>
References: <DB8940E16E604889B95AB0C916B25E25@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<74A77583-F551-4568-96BB-934E590CF613@me.com>
Message-ID: <FD2640DE-D586-4D1C-9FC6-95D594FB82FB@icloud.com>

One protocol to bind them all?

> On 13 Oct 2022, at 13:57, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> There is no chance of getting a car into my garage.  In the absence of a proper workshop, my garage has to serve as my workshop and there is no room for a car.
> 
> Home automations is quite good if you can create simple scripts to do useful tasks.  The scripts can be conditional so that one process only happens if certain conditions are met ( such as it?s dark and nobody is at home ). I?m currently only controlling lamps or devices which can be controlled via a smart switch and I built a few home made sensors too ( motion detectors and door sensors ), but once the Matter Protocol is launched this autumn, it should allow any compliant smart devices to work across all platforms.  Smart devices should become cheaper and more widely available.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 11:56, David Newbitt <dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> Yes Alan, your description of the Teasmade process is both graphic and precise. Off to a tee one might say.
>>  
>> Completely floored by your domestic arrangements to start each day. Wouldn?t be surprised if the garage door opened as appropriate with both engine and car interior pre-warmed and the SatNav already knowing where you?re going!
>>  
>> Dave Newbitt.
>>  
>> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
>> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 11:12 AM
>> To: tech1
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Water
>>  
>> My first wife and I were once given a Teasmade.  The principle seems good enough, but in reality the gurgling and boiling of the water woke us up long before the alarm.  The steam pressure builds to squirt water into the pot with appropriate industrial sound effects and at that moment it triggers the alarm just in case it hasn?t already woken you up.
>>  
>> Of course you can?t drink the tea straight away because it hasn?t brewed, but while it brews, you snooze and by the time you wake up again, the tea is lukewarm. The simple fix would have been to trigger the alarm five minutes after the pot had been filled.
>>  
>> The other drawback was that in very hot weather, a little jug of milk would go off overnight, so you either needed an upstairs fridge, or had to go down to the kitchen for fresh milk, which kind of defeated the idea of having tea in bed.
>>  
>> We get round much of it these days by using home automation.  A smart plug in the kitchen powers the kettle which last thing at night is filled with water and primed to go. When Janet is doing an early start, there is a sequence of the radio switching on at a certain time, lights coming on if it?s dark and the kettle getting switched on ready for whoever is first downstairs.  On other days, we just trigger it from a phone when we wake up and a light in the bedroom comes on after a few minutes to remind us that the water should have boiled. The neat part is that the automation script takes an input from her phone calendar. If she is scheduled to work on a given day, it all happens automatically at the appropriate time with no need to set an alarm the night before, but if she isn?t working, we choose when to trigger it in the morning.
>>  
>> Alan
>>  
>> 
>>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 10:29, David Newbitt <dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> No place for the dreaded Goblin ?Teasmade? then. Do you remember the racket they made coming to the boil? Enough to put you off your tea.
>>>  
>>> Dave Newbitt.
>>>  
>>> From: Peter Fox via Tech1
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 10:13 AM
>>> To: Alan Taylor
>>> Cc: tech1
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Water
>>>  
>>> Absolutely Alan, and its the second most important reason that I go down to the kitchen to make that first cup of tea in the morning
>>> 
>>> Peter Fox
>>> 
>>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 09:41, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> The lower temperature of boiling water at high elevations is also a problem when boiling eggs in Alpine resorts.  An egg boiled for four minutes at a high altitude will still be virtually raw. Cooking times need to be greatly extended. You can still get a decent boiled egg by boiling it for longer, but you can?t get a decent cup of tea by infusing it for longer if the boiling point is lower.
>>>  
>>> I once stayed in M?rren in Switzerland. The hotel was more that 1600 metres above sea level where the low atmospheric pressure reduces the normal boiling point to 94?
>>>  
>>> Alan
>>>  
>>> 
>>>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 08:44, Pat Heigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> An aged aunt had a teaspoon (well, it would be), which had a lid and was perforated into which one loaded it with loose leaf tealeaves.
>>>> 
>>>> Water had to be boiling, and always in a 'brown Betty' teapot which was warmed up by rinsing with the boiling water.
>>>> 
>>>> One never gets a decent cuppa in the high mountain areas of Switzerland and Austria, as water boils at a lower temperature,
>>>> the higher the altitude.
>>>> 
>>>> One thing I hate, which turns my stomach is when a cafe plonks a teabag into an already milked mug, so a pale liquid
>>>> results with the bag floating suspiciously like an Alien seed pod - ugh!
>>>> 
>>>> Pat H
>>>> 
>>>> On 13/10/2022 07:34, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> A few years ago in Bath there used to be a tea establishment which took tea very seriously indeed.  Upon arrival, you were presented with a tea list which would put many wine lists to shame.  It was around 20 pages of A4, with detailed and florid descriptions of about six or seven teas per page.
>>>>>  
>>>>> When you made your selection, the staff would put the tea leaves into the optimum pot for that tea and pour on water which had been heated to the perfect temperature for that tea. They had a device somewhat like an espresso machine, but with a digital display to select the exact temperature and a spout to fill the pot.  The tea was delivered to your table accompanied by an electronic countdown timer which had been set according to that chosen tea. Customers were warned not to pour the tea until the timer announced that it was ready.
>>>>>  
>>>>> It was a quirky place to go for refreshment and quite fun too, but unfortunately it?s no longer trading.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Alan
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 13 Oct 2022, at 03:54, Keith Wicks via Tech1 mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> "We were always told that to make tea you needed freshly
>>>>>> boiled water however. Today, we are told that boiling water is bad for
>>>>>> coffee and tea as it scorches the leaves or beans! 80?C is recommended!
>>>>>> You just don't know where the next idea is coming from!"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please tell us where the 80?C idea came from. I looked on the internet because, some years ago, I had read that professionals recommend a temperature (within 0.5?C) of a certain (now forgotten) temperature in the 90s (Celcius, as are all temperatures mentioned here). I found many different opinions on the internet, but one thing stood out. There is no single ideal coffee brewing temperature for all as the best temperature depends on so many factors. These include the equipment used, the type of beans (in particular, light or dark) and, of course, personal taste. Which brings me to my own personal taste preference.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My original information suggested that water just off the boil was best, and one point I remember in particular was that one shouldn't have any old grounds present while brewing. Another guideline was to leave the brew for some time for a fuller flavour. Well, I wanted a fuller flavour, so I used to leave the coffee brewing for five to ten minutes. But, on a recent occasion, I had little time available and brewed for only about a minute. So I was surprised to find the resulting coffee had superb and subtle flavours. And I now always brew for a shorter time with the same success.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I realised that, in brewing for a long time, I had eventually been brewing with old coffee grounds present, which was not recommended (although the consequences were not revealed). The most common recommended temperature I found recently was 93?C, but please search the internet for advice as that temperature will not suit everyone. And please note that at least one US site does not convert correctly from ?F to ?C. The only firm advice I can give is to avoid using percolators. These devices continually circulate hot coffee until it is devoid of any real coffee flavour.
>>>>>> KW
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From gary_critcher at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 13 08:02:26 2022
From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 13:02:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] The Goons.
References: <2052590481.1837567.1665666146735.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2052590481.1837567.1665666146735@mail.yahoo.com>

.... just wanted to mention ...I don't know if any of you are fans of the Goons, but there is this just published on the BBC website.?It's a quarter inch reel I found when I worked at Ken.House and returned to the Beeb at least 4 years ago.?It turns out it was the Dreaded Batter Pudding Hurley (of Bexhill on Sea) that contained around an extra 4 minutes that have never been transmitted before.?? They've finally got round to scheduling it.
All the best,? ? ?Gary.
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From rerb2 at cam.ac.uk  Thu Oct 13 09:46:00 2022
From: rerb2 at cam.ac.uk (R.E.R. Bunce)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 14:46:00 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] The Goons.
In-Reply-To: <2052590481.1837567.1665666146735@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2052590481.1837567.1665666146735.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2052590481.1837567.1665666146735@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LO0P265MB394848A9B671458305238958BC259@LO0P265MB3948.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Dear Gary,

Great find! And hank you for sharing the news.

Best wishes,

Robin


________________________________
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> on behalf of Gary Critcher via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 13 October 2022 14:02
To: dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: [Tech1] The Goons.

.... just wanted to mention ...I don't know if any of you are fans of the Goons, but there is this just published on the BBC website.
 It's a quarter inch reel I found when I worked at Ken.House and returned to the Beeb at least 4 years ago.
 It turns out it was the Dreaded Batter Pudding Hurley (of Bexhill on Sea) that contained around an extra 4 minutes that have never been transmitted before.
  They've finally got round to scheduling it.

All the best,     Gary.
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From gary_critcher at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 13 09:50:50 2022
From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 14:50:50 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] The Goons.
In-Reply-To: <LO0P265MB394848A9B671458305238958BC259@LO0P265MB3948.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <2052590481.1837567.1665666146735.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2052590481.1837567.1665666146735@mail.yahoo.com>
	<LO0P265MB394848A9B671458305238958BC259@LO0P265MB3948.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <1040740129.1915196.1665672650947@mail.yahoo.com>

 ....and here's how I found it.





    On Thursday, 13 October 2022, 07:46:03 GMT-7, R.E.R. Bunce <rerb2 at cam.ac.uk> wrote:  Dear Gary,
Great find! And hank you for sharing the news.
Best wishes,

Robin

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> on behalf of Gary Critcher via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 13 October 2022 14:02
To: dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: [Tech1] The Goons.?.... just wanted to mention ...I don't know if any of you are fans of the Goons, but there is this just published on the BBC website.?It's a quarter inch reel I found when I worked at Ken.House and returned to the Beeb at least 4 years ago.?It turns out it was the Dreaded Batter Pudding Hurley (of Bexhill on Sea) that contained around an extra 4 minutes that have never been transmitted before.?? They've finally got round to scheduling it.
All the best,? ? ?Gary.  
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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Thu Oct 13 09:59:42 2022
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 15:59:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Goons.
In-Reply-To: <2052590481.1837567.1665666146735@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2052590481.1837567.1665666146735.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2052590481.1837567.1665666146735@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8DAE7FF4A0EF494188F5F8C76ADF7D1E@Gigabyte>

Interesting as I have a copy of this recorded as Series 5, episode 3 of 26 but only timed (on file) as 27m53sec whereas many others come in almost 30min.
My list also has season 5 of 26 episodes and the photo you have sent says 26 of 24.
Confusing eh?

Most of mine were recorded of Radio7 back in 2012 and listening now it definitely talks about Batter Pudding coming up (BBC canteen meal?)

Lets see if we can find out actual scheduled date/time

Mike

From: Gary Critcher via Tech1 
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 2:02 PM
To: dave.mdv via Tech1 
Subject: [Tech1] The Goons.

... just wanted to mention ...I don't know if any of you are fans of the Goons, but there is this just published on the BBC website.
It's a quarter inch reel I found when I worked at Ken.House and returned to the Beeb at least 4 years ago.
It turns out it was the Dreaded Batter Pudding Hurley (of Bexhill on Sea) that contained around an extra 4 minutes that have never been transmitted before. 
  They've finally got round to scheduling it.

All the best,     Gary.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From gary_critcher at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 13 10:02:55 2022
From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 15:02:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] The Goons.
In-Reply-To: <8DAE7FF4A0EF494188F5F8C76ADF7D1E@Gigabyte>
References: <2052590481.1837567.1665666146735.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2052590481.1837567.1665666146735@mail.yahoo.com>
	<8DAE7FF4A0EF494188F5F8C76ADF7D1E@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <16504563.1927523.1665673375741@mail.yahoo.com>

 Scheduled for TX on 18th October, 8am, on Radio 4 Extra, plus repeats afterwards.?







    On Thursday, 13 October 2022, 07:59:50 GMT-7, Mike Jordan <mikej at bmanor.co.uk> wrote:  
 
 Interesting as I have a copy of this recorded as Series 5, episode 3 of 26 but only timed (on file) as 27m53sec whereas many others come in almost 30min.My list also has season 5 of 26 episodes and the photo you have sent says 26 of 24.Confusing eh??Most of mine were recorded of Radio7 back in 2012 and listening now it definitely talks about Batter Pudding coming up (BBC canteen meal?)?Lets see if we can find out actual scheduled date/time?Mike?From: Gary Critcher via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 2:02 PMTo: dave.mdv via Tech1 Subject: [Tech1] The Goons.?.... just wanted to mention ...I don't know if any of you are fans of the Goons, but there is this just published on the BBC website.It's a quarter inch reel I found when I worked at Ken.House and returned to the Beeb at least 4 years ago.It turns out it was the Dreaded Batter Pudding Hurley (of Bexhill on Sea) that contained around an extra 4 minutes that have never been transmitted before. ? They've finally got round to scheduling it.?All the best,???? Gary.

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
  
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Oct 13 11:06:55 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 17:06:55 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Goons.
In-Reply-To: <16504563.1927523.1665673375741@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2052590481.1837567.1665666146735.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2052590481.1837567.1665666146735@mail.yahoo.com>
	<8DAE7FF4A0EF494188F5F8C76ADF7D1E@Gigabyte>
	<16504563.1927523.1665673375741@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dcd04a1b-e81c-7674-e47e-d7e7e4a222f3@amps.net>

In the BBC series of CD's, comes up as:

THE DREADED BATTER PUDDING HURLER 	ZBBC 1864
THE HISTORIES OF PLINY THE ELDER 	ZBBC 1864
THE JET-PROPELLED GUIDED NAAFI 	ZBBC 1864
THE EVILS OF BUSHEY SPON 	ZBBC 1864


Don't know if they are still availble to buy.
PatH

On 13/10/2022 16:02, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote:
> Scheduled for TX on 18th October, 8am, on Radio 4 Extra, plus repeats 
> afterwards.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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From geoffletch at gmail.com  Thu Oct 13 12:08:38 2022
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 18:08:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Goons.
In-Reply-To: <16504563.1927523.1665673375741@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2052590481.1837567.1665666146735.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2052590481.1837567.1665666146735@mail.yahoo.com>
	<8DAE7FF4A0EF494188F5F8C76ADF7D1E@Gigabyte>
	<16504563.1927523.1665673375741@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001E5EA5-BCA7-44F7-B98E-F3D35C77D101@gmail.com>

If anyone is interested I have 100+ broadcast Goon Shows on MP3.

Geoff F




> On 13 Oct 2022, at 16:02, Gary Critcher via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Scheduled for TX on 18th October, 8am, on Radio 4 Extra, plus repeats afterwards. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, 13 October 2022, 07:59:50 GMT-7, Mike Jordan <mikej at bmanor.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> Interesting as I have a copy of this recorded as Series 5, episode 3 of 26 but only timed (on file) as 27m53sec whereas many others come in almost 30min.
> My list also has season 5 of 26 episodes and the photo you have sent says 26 of 24.
> Confusing eh?
>  
> Most of mine were recorded of Radio7 back in 2012 and listening now it definitely talks about Batter Pudding coming up (BBC canteen meal?)
>  
> Lets see if we can find out actual scheduled date/time
>  
> Mike
>  
> From: Gary Critcher via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2022 2:02 PM
> To: dave.mdv via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: [Tech1] The Goons.
>  
> .... just wanted to mention ...I don't know if any of you are fans of the Goons, but there is this just published on the BBC website.
> It's a quarter inch reel I found when I worked at Ken.House and returned to the Beeb at least 4 years ago.
> It turns out it was the Dreaded Batter Pudding Hurley (of Bexhill on Sea) that contained around an extra 4 minutes that have never been transmitted before.
>   They've finally got round to scheduling it.
>  
> All the best,     Gary.
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> <Screenshot_20221013-163351_Samsung Internet.jpg>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sat Oct 15 15:06:02 2022
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2022 21:06:02 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] SciFi Exhibition
In-Reply-To: <0aa939d5-3add-dcfe-915d-4c729cb4a390@gmail.com>
References: <0aa939d5-3add-dcfe-915d-4c729cb4a390@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C52915C9-FD99-42FB-83B9-856C544B1AA8@icloud.com>

Now I know what is happening for the rest of the month I?d be interested in jopining in.

> On 8 Oct 2022, at 17:27, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Mr Hawkes also points out an exhibition at the Science Museum - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5YpW2fAV-4&t=11s . Geoff was wondering about a day out, in the same way that we went to the RAF Museum. Certainly a day trip to the Science Museum would be fun, especially if you haven't been for a long time. Slight problem with the exhibition, in that you have book and pay for a time slot.  
> 
> Maybe we could pick a date - say 1130 on the Xth November, then try booking in the same hour slot.   
> 
> Apart from Geoff and I, is anyone interested?
> 
> B
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sun Oct 16 04:40:17 2022
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2022 10:40:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Sundays Knusberg show audio
Message-ID: <820E2896ED0F4FA0BD59D81965BE93C4@Gigabyte>

It doesn?t get any better does it?
Watched a bit of this for a change as she was chatting with Mr Hunt. (waiting to see how John Crace in Guardian re-names him)
Looked like it was perhaps in BH Boardroom with panels after he had done a Radio4 thing as according to press he has now gone to Chequers to talk to Liz (whats wrong with a phone?)
They both had personals ? cabled as wires curled around chair legs and cables disappearing off ? but he had a nice clear voice if a bit quiet but she was all muffled but not  a windshield or her hair or mic under clothes.
Can?t anything sound right nowadays.
But it was shot OK as all cutaways had her nodding as required.

UGH!

Mike
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From hughsnape at talktalk.net  Sun Oct 16 05:06:32 2022
From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2022 11:06:32 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Sundays Knusberg show audio
In-Reply-To: <820E2896ED0F4FA0BD59D81965BE93C4@Gigabyte>
References: <820E2896ED0F4FA0BD59D81965BE93C4@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <CC3B0A2C-1F1A-4E67-B67C-5FD1BC3760F9@talktalk.net>

Probably done without a sound person I expect, stand mics (the neat VR1 sort) seem to have fallen out of favour these days and perhaps whoever made the recording wouldn?t have had access to any.

Ironic that the recording was poor in a building stuffed with studios . . .

Hugh

> On 16 Oct 2022, at 10:40, Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> It doesn?t get any better does it?
> Watched a bit of this for a change as she was chatting with Mr Hunt. (waiting to see how John Crace in Guardian re-names him)
> Looked like it was perhaps in BH Boardroom with panels after he had done a Radio4 thing as according to press he has now gone to Chequers to talk to Liz (whats wrong with a phone?)
> They both had personals ? cabled as wires curled around chair legs and cables disappearing off ? but he had a nice clear voice if a bit quiet but she was all muffled but not  a windshield or her hair or mic under clothes.
> Can?t anything sound right nowadays.
> But it was shot OK as all cutaways had her nodding as required.
>  
> UGH!
>  
> Mike
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 16 05:19:28 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2022 11:19:28 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Sundays Knusberg show audio
In-Reply-To: <820E2896ED0F4FA0BD59D81965BE93C4@Gigabyte>
References: <820E2896ED0F4FA0BD59D81965BE93C4@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <32aa11e4-6c7d-7856-5426-3094ca61c0bd@gmail.com>

Could well be a small interview like that doesn't have a sound man - and 
just feeds each mic to a track direct. Leaving it to be sorted out on 
the edit. And if, at the edit, you EQ one mic heavily compared to the 
other, the background will bounce on an edit. All sortable, of course. 
But why bother because it's only sound and time is tight?

It's quite common when such an item is transmitted as an insert to live 
studio to have the sound start panned hard to left or right, which 
usually sorts itself out at the first cut. Did wonder if that was 
because everything started out on separate tracks?

On 16/10/2022 10:40, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote:
> It doesn?t get any better does it?
> Watched a bit of this for a change as she was chatting with Mr Hunt. 
> (waiting to see how John Crace in Guardian re-names him)
> Looked like it was perhaps in BH Boardroom with panels after he had 
> done a Radio4 thing as according to press he has now gone to Chequers 
> to talk to Liz (whats wrong with a phone?)
> They both had personals ? cabled as wires curled around chair legs and 
> cables disappearing off ? but he had a nice clear voice if a bit quiet 
> but she was all muffled but not a windshield or her hair or mic under 
> clothes.
> Can?t anything sound right nowadays.
> But it was shot OK as all cutaways had her nodding as required.
> UGH!
> Mike
>
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From doug.prior at talktalk.net  Sun Oct 16 07:03:44 2022
From: doug.prior at talktalk.net (doug.prior)
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2022 13:03:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Strictly
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1665921839.427106.tech1_tech-ops.co.uk@tech-ops.co.uk>

My Sunday Telegraph has just spoilt my evening viewing by publishing in a throw away line the result of yesterdays competition! Is nothing sacred.Doug PriorSent from my Galaxy
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 10:51:59 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2022 16:51:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Disorganised Reminder
Message-ID: <b5c127f2-b3f7-fb77-8938-c19e81d3e167@gmail.com>

_This Friday_

October 21st from 1200 at the Horniman's at Hays Galleria. For those who 
haven't been before (Janis), it's here -
https://what3words.com/goad.text.waddle - a short walk from London 
Bridge main line and Tube, Jubilee and Northern. It has it's own bus 
stop - 47,343,381. You can't get much more convenient, and if you travel 
into Waterloo you can get a London Terminals ticket and route via 
Waterloo East.

Of course, if someone invents a strike it's all off.?? Get there early - 
booking costs money these days, but if we're there at 1200 or before 
there's usually plenty of space.

cheers - look forward to seeing you all.

B
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Oct 18 06:45:01 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 12:45:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Masked ads
Message-ID: <104bc511-baa9-de7e-0f96-99a8a882ad0b@amps.net>

Hello All!
Somebody, somewhere has been thinking!!
Ads for medical nurses recently on TV, have shown them wearing 
anti-Covid masks with a transparent panel at mouth level.

Brilliant! It allows patients to see them smiling, as well as deaf 
persons able to lip-read.

So let's all have them - check-out people cannot see that I am smiling, 
even though I might be displaying a grouchy face!

Pat H
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From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Oct 18 07:02:40 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 13:02:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Masked ads
In-Reply-To: <104bc511-baa9-de7e-0f96-99a8a882ad0b@amps.net>
References: <104bc511-baa9-de7e-0f96-99a8a882ad0b@amps.net>
Message-ID: <EA324492-D5DE-4687-A57A-225B5890504B@me.com>

In hospitals those masks are known as smile protectors. They are only used in exceptional circumstances ( usually with lip reading patients ) because they do not fully meet the ?fit testing? standards of the health authority and many of the ones commonly sold do not meet medical filtration standards either. I?m sure that the higher cost is a factor too when it comes to NHS use.

Some patients find that they can look a bit scary, resembling a clown face for some designs. It?s a bit of a drawback when something intended to make you look friendlier actually scares some people. Definitely a good idea for some, but not all.

Alan

> On 18 Oct 2022, at 12:45, Pat Heigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hello All!
> Somebody, somewhere has been thinking!!
> Ads for medical nurses recently on TV, have shown them wearing anti-Covid masks with a transparent panel at mouth level.
> 
> Brilliant! It allows patients to see them smiling, as well as deaf persons able to lip-read.
> 
> So let's all have them - check-out people cannot see that I am smiling, even though I might be displaying a grouchy face!
> 
> Pat H
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From waresound at msn.com  Fri Oct 21 16:31:02 2022
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 21:31:02 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What could possibly go wrong?
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB1604718EAA929B6DDC672217A72D9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

There?s something I think I ought to tell you folk. Could I be any worse than the last occupant? Like her, I won?t move my furniture in just in case ?.. I don?t want the job, of course, but the ?100,000 per annum ex-PM?s ?expenses? might come in handy.
[image0.jpeg]

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Fri Oct 21 17:39:45 2022
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 23:39:45 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] What could possibly go wrong?
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB1604718EAA929B6DDC672217A72D9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <AM9P191MB1604718EAA929B6DDC672217A72D9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <BDB04DF4F488473B98DBEF68D1FF9847@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

How the hell do you keep managing to look that young? It?s positively indecent! Unless .....?

Dave Newbitt.

From: Nick Ware via Tech1 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2022 10:31 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: [Tech1] What could possibly go wrong?

There?s something I think I ought to tell you folk. Could I be any worse than the last occupant? Like her, I won?t move my furniture in just in case ?.. I don?t want the job, of course, but the ?100,000 per annum ex-PM?s ?expenses? might come in handy.




Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad


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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 17:43:28 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 23:43:28 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] What could possibly go wrong?
In-Reply-To: <BDB04DF4F488473B98DBEF68D1FF9847@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <AM9P191MB1604718EAA929B6DDC672217A72D9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<BDB04DF4F488473B98DBEF68D1FF9847@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <6232d686-0f16-e9a6-38d3-7895dad199c3@gmail.com>

Have a look in Nick's attic...

On 21/10/2022 23:39, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
> How the hell do you keep managing to look that young? It?s positively 
> indecent! Unless .....?
> Dave Newbitt.
> *From:* Nick Ware via Tech1
> *Sent:* Friday, October 21, 2022 10:31 PM
> *To:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject:* [Tech1] What could possibly go wrong?
> There?s something I think I ought to tell you folk. Could I be any 
> worse than the last occupant? Like her, I won?t move my furniture in 
> just in case ?.. I don?t want the job, of course, but the ?100,000 per 
> annum ex-PM?s ?expenses? might come in handy.
> image0.jpeg
>
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Fri Oct 21 17:58:40 2022
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 23:58:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] What could possibly go wrong?
In-Reply-To: <6232d686-0f16-e9a6-38d3-7895dad199c3@gmail.com>
References: <AM9P191MB1604718EAA929B6DDC672217A72D9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM><BDB04DF4F488473B98DBEF68D1FF9847@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<6232d686-0f16-e9a6-38d3-7895dad199c3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53775055A50046AA9425404C5A8EB27C@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Intriguing! Elucidate?

Dave Newbitt

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2022 11:43 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] What could possibly go wrong?

Have a look in Nick's attic...


On 21/10/2022 23:39, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:

  How the hell do you keep managing to look that young? It?s positively indecent! Unless .....?

  Dave Newbitt.

  From: Nick Ware via Tech1 
  Sent: Friday, October 21, 2022 10:31 PM
  To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
  Subject: [Tech1] What could possibly go wrong?

  There?s something I think I ought to tell you folk. Could I be any worse than the last occupant? Like her, I won?t move my furniture in just in case ?.. I don?t want the job, of course, but the ?100,000 per annum ex-PM?s ?expenses? might come in handy.




  Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com  Sat Oct 22 03:04:57 2022
From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 09:04:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] iPhone Info
Message-ID: <35c3cedf-6564-8083-0c1f-a4464238225d@googlemail.com>

I'm an Android user, but a friend approached me last night about apps on 
his iPhone. He wanted good apps for aeroplane tracking & ship tracking. 
I couldn't help him there, but at the same time he complained his nice 
new Volvo didn't have CD player! I explained that I had all my music on 
my phone & could listen in the car with Android Auto. I thought he 
should be able to do something similar with Apple Play.

Does the iPhone come with a built-in app for music? What would be the 
best way for him to copy his 300 CDs on to his phone? I've no idea what 
computer he has. I suggested his car dealer should be able to tell him 
how to get music from phone to car.

Any pointers gratefully received, & I'll pass them on.

John Nottage


From philiptyler at me.com  Sat Oct 22 03:19:21 2022
From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 09:19:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] iPhone Info
In-Reply-To: <35c3cedf-6564-8083-0c1f-a4464238225d@googlemail.com>
References: <35c3cedf-6564-8083-0c1f-a4464238225d@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <B6FC1038-34D6-43E2-B2ED-22250A804F75@me.com>

?Does the iPhone come with a music app??

iTunes! :))

Work?s brilliantly and my Volvo even works with airplay.


Philip and Bee

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/

> On 22 Oct 2022, at 09:05, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I'm an Android user, but a friend approached me last night about apps on his iPhone. He wanted good apps for aeroplane tracking & ship tracking. I couldn't help him there, but at the same time he complained his nice new Volvo didn't have CD player! I explained that I had all my music on my phone & could listen in the car with Android Auto. I thought he should be able to do something similar with Apple Play.
> 
> Does the iPhone come with a built-in app for music? What would be the best way for him to copy his 300 CDs on to his phone? I've no idea what computer he has. I suggested his car dealer should be able to tell him how to get music from phone to car.
> 
> Any pointers gratefully received, & I'll pass them on.
> 
> John Nottage
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat Oct 22 03:38:54 2022
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 09:38:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Flight tracking
In-Reply-To: <35c3cedf-6564-8083-0c1f-a4464238225d@googlemail.com>
References: <35c3cedf-6564-8083-0c1f-a4464238225d@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <22655c4d-176c-e598-d55f-da4eb8475f06@btinternet.com>

I use 'Flight Radar' on my Android device, I think there is a similar 
one for shipping. Cheers, Dave. PS also try 'pprune', the pilots rumour 
network for the inside stories from the aviation world.


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Oct 22 03:58:38 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 09:58:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] iPhone Info
In-Reply-To: <35c3cedf-6564-8083-0c1f-a4464238225d@googlemail.com>
References: <35c3cedf-6564-8083-0c1f-a4464238225d@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <572b3dd6-14e9-4df5-d5c3-0e5ff422c2ff@amps.net>

I would expect that today's Volvos would have what my 14 year-old BMW is 
equipped with - a Bluetooth link from phone to the car's sound system,
voice controlled, so totally hands-free! Phone can be powered from a 12v 
outlet in the centre console, which also has a 3.5mm auxiliary jack.
Car is fitted with a 6 CD changer as well, in the boot, and I'm amazed 
that it's so well insulated against vibration, never a jump or stutter, 
even with Surrey's
potholed roads!

I'm sure someone on this forum will come up with the best way to 
programme music on the phone.
I know that there are tracking progs for aircraft movements - Bernie 
could help here?

Good listening!

Pat H

On 22/10/2022 09:04, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
> I'm an Android user, but a friend approached me last night about apps 
> on his iPhone. He wanted good apps for aeroplane tracking & ship 
> tracking. I couldn't help him there, but at the same time he 
> complained his nice new Volvo didn't have CD player! I explained that 
> I had all my music on my phone & could listen in the car with Android 
> Auto. I thought he should be able to do something similar with Apple 
> Play.
>
> Does the iPhone come with a built-in app for music? What would be the 
> best way for him to copy his 300 CDs on to his phone? I've no idea 
> what computer he has. I suggested his car dealer should be able to 
> tell him how to get music from phone to car.
>
> Any pointers gratefully received, & I'll pass them on.
>
> John Nottage
>
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sat Oct 22 04:21:17 2022
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 10:21:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] iPhone Info
In-Reply-To: <B6FC1038-34D6-43E2-B2ED-22250A804F75@me.com>
References: <35c3cedf-6564-8083-0c1f-a4464238225d@googlemail.com>
	<B6FC1038-34D6-43E2-B2ED-22250A804F75@me.com>
Message-ID: <C0F1063C-4C63-499D-8EE2-64F06FB79B8A@icloud.com>

The modern version is called, simply, Music and is standard on iPhones. I rip the CDs onto my desktop and then sync them with the iPhone, don?t know of a way of directly ripping them to the phone.

> On 22 Oct 2022, at 09:19, Philip Tyler via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Does the iPhone come with a music app??
> 
> iTunes! :))
> 
> Work?s brilliantly and my Volvo even works with airplay.
> 
> 
> Philip and Bee
> 
> https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/
> 
>> On 22 Oct 2022, at 09:05, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I'm an Android user, but a friend approached me last night about apps on his iPhone. He wanted good apps for aeroplane tracking & ship tracking. I couldn't help him there, but at the same time he complained his nice new Volvo didn't have CD player! I explained that I had all my music on my phone & could listen in the car with Android Auto. I thought he should be able to do something similar with Apple Play.
>> 
>> Does the iPhone come with a built-in app for music? What would be the best way for him to copy his 300 CDs on to his phone? I've no idea what computer he has. I suggested his car dealer should be able to tell him how to get music from phone to car.
>> 
>> Any pointers gratefully received, & I'll pass them on.
>> 
>> John Nottage
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 04:23:26 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 10:23:26 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] iPhone Info
In-Reply-To: <35c3cedf-6564-8083-0c1f-a4464238225d@googlemail.com>
References: <35c3cedf-6564-8083-0c1f-a4464238225d@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <a2673e4c-576d-d5e2-2564-395aeb3aa8e4@gmail.com>

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-1.2/centery:50.5/zoom:9
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/
https://www.flightradar24.com/51.85,-1.79/7

I imagine they all work fine on an iPhone

B



On 22/10/2022 09:04, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
> I'm an Android user, but a friend approached me last night about apps 
> on his iPhone. He wanted good apps for aeroplane tracking & ship 
> tracking. I couldn't help him there, but at the same time he 
> complained his nice new Volvo didn't have CD player! I explained that 
> I had all my music on my phone & could listen in the car with Android 
> Auto. I thought he should be able to do something similar with Apple 
> Play.
>
> Does the iPhone come with a built-in app for music? What would be the 
> best way for him to copy his 300 CDs on to his phone? I've no idea 
> what computer he has. I suggested his car dealer should be able to 
> tell him how to get music from phone to car.
>
> Any pointers gratefully received, & I'll pass them on.
>
> John Nottage
>
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sat Oct 22 04:27:11 2022
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 10:27:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] iPhone Info
In-Reply-To: <a2673e4c-576d-d5e2-2564-395aeb3aa8e4@gmail.com>
References: <35c3cedf-6564-8083-0c1f-a4464238225d@googlemail.com>
	<a2673e4c-576d-d5e2-2564-395aeb3aa8e4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <88D3670F-F3AC-41F5-BE06-101324381B5F@icloud.com>

There?s an app called Plane Finder, which has the advantage of being not as popular as FL24 so tends not to crash so often when certain flights are very popular.

> On 22 Oct 2022, at 10:23, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-1.2/centery:50.5/zoom:9
> https://globe.adsbexchange.com/
> https://www.flightradar24.com/51.85,-1.79/7
> 
> I imagine they all work fine on an iPhone
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
> On 22/10/2022 09:04, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
>> I'm an Android user, but a friend approached me last night about apps on his iPhone. He wanted good apps for aeroplane tracking & ship tracking. I couldn't help him there, but at the same time he complained his nice new Volvo didn't have CD player! I explained that I had all my music on my phone & could listen in the car with Android Auto. I thought he should be able to do something similar with Apple Play. 
>> 
>> Does the iPhone come with a built-in app for music? What would be the best way for him to copy his 300 CDs on to his phone? I've no idea what computer he has. I suggested his car dealer should be able to tell him how to get music from phone to car. 
>> 
>> Any pointers gratefully received, & I'll pass them on. 
>> 
>> John Nottage 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Oct 22 04:36:53 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 10:36:53 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] iPhone Info
In-Reply-To: <35c3cedf-6564-8083-0c1f-a4464238225d@googlemail.com>
References: <35c3cedf-6564-8083-0c1f-a4464238225d@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <80B20E0F-0102-452E-A013-43A1A1E8CE43@me.com>

As John said, iTunes / Music is the answer, but in order to put the music onto an iPhone, you need to do it via iTunes or Music on a Mac. Unless it?s an older Mac, it will need an external CD or DVD player ( cheap unbranded basic one from Amazon works well ). It will come as no surprise that they never made an iPhone with a built in CD player, but I think the real reason is more to do with copyright protection and trying to keep the music industry happy when iPods were first on sale. If he subscribes to a music streaming service, any music played on an iPhone will be passed via Bluetooth to the Volvo if required. 

As for aircraft tracking, I would suggest the web site adsbexchange.com  It offers a filter to conceal the normal commercial flights and only show military of interesting aircraft.  It?s a good way of spotting if a spitfire is heading in your direction en route to an air display on a sunny Saturday, or alternatively to see what the RAF are sending your way.  

For tracking commercial aircraft, the app FlightRadar24 offers a lot more detail.  In some cases you don?t need any app at all.  If Siri is enabled you can just ask -  Hey Siri, what planes are overhead?

Something I noticed a couple of weeks ago is that if you put a flight number into the Calendar app on an iPhone, it automatically tracks that flight for you.  We were driving to collect somebody from Frankfurt and I had put their flight number into Calendar as a reminder.  When we were driving there, my wife wanted to check the exact arrival time and was surprised to see a little map showing the track of that plane and how it was over Belgium at that time.

I can?t offer any suggestions for marine tracking.  Opportunities for watching shipping seldom happen in the Banbury area.

Alan



> On 22 Oct 2022, at 09:05, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I'm an Android user, but a friend approached me last night about apps on his iPhone. He wanted good apps for aeroplane tracking & ship tracking. I couldn't help him there, but at the same time he complained his nice new Volvo didn't have CD player! I explained that I had all my music on my phone & could listen in the car with Android Auto. I thought he should be able to do something similar with Apple Play.
> 
> Does the iPhone come with a built-in app for music? What would be the best way for him to copy his 300 CDs on to his phone? I've no idea what computer he has. I suggested his car dealer should be able to tell him how to get music from phone to car.
> 
> Any pointers gratefully received, & I'll pass them on.
> 
> John Nottage
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sat Oct 22 07:27:15 2022
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 13:27:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Raspberry Pi monitor
Message-ID: <85579D2B-53F9-49CB-9E87-E7A07341B237@icloud.com>

Can anyone reccomend a good, relatively cheap, monitor to use with a Raspberry Pi 400 computer.

Ta
? 
Graeme Wall




From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 08:34:41 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 14:34:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Raspberry Pi monitor
In-Reply-To: <85579D2B-53F9-49CB-9E87-E7A07341B237@icloud.com>
References: <85579D2B-53F9-49CB-9E87-E7A07341B237@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <bce8f8cc-8829-6858-acef-7ffa5c3f547e@ntlworld.com>

I think it has HDMI like the others...??? I just use? a telly.

B



On 22/10/2022 13:27, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote:
> Can anyone reccomend a good, relatively cheap, monitor to use with a Raspberry Pi 400 computer.
>
> Ta
> ?
> Graeme Wall
>
>
>
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Oct 22 11:44:04 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 17:44:04 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Friday Night Live
Message-ID: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>

Friday Night Live was on Ch 4 last night.  It came from Versa Studios in London. For anybody who had never heard of it, it?s a new studio complex which has been open for less than 12 months and it?s sited in Kendal Avenue, more or less where the staff car park used to be, near where Metal Box was.

I feel that it?s a slightly more fitting replacement than the trampoline halls which replaced the old scanner hall and workshops. That whole area has changed out of all recognition since I first worked for OBs.  Features which have long since vanished include the railway siding, originally built to serve the Bluebird toffee factory, which was our building before it became the OB base.  Then the other side of the railway siding was the Napier engine factory with its soundproof engine testing shed, which provided much entertainment in the BBC canteen when builders were trying to demolish it with a giant wrecking ball as seen in all the best cartoon films.  Further along was an open grassed area which offered excellent opportunities for checking the free air range of radio systems.  

All that area was originally part of Acton Aerodrome. Initially opened in 1910. A major setback was a fire which destroyed most of the hangars and aircraft in 1911.  It was rebuilt and mostly used for training pilots but the Air Ministry closed it down as it regarded the facilities as inadequate. Alliance road took its name from the Alliance aircraft factory with it?s distinctive ridged roof which is still there. They built DH9 and DH10 aircraft there, but WW1 came to an end soon after and it?s glory days were short lived.  It was taken over by Renault for car production and they also built an adjoining factory which is now the Renault main dealer. During WW2, the Alliance factory was used to build wings for Mosquitos and fuselages for Avro Ansons.

Ansons were the first RAF aircraft to have retractable undercarriage. None of your poncey electric motors to do it though.  The undercarriage was retracted by the pilot operating a crank handle which needed 144 turns.  Unsurprisingly, short flight were often made without bothering to retract the undercarriage.

Alan

From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sat Oct 22 12:00:18 2022
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 18:00:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Friday Night Live
In-Reply-To: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>
References: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>
Message-ID: <4DF67E1C3EF84B5BB76E4325D73EE4DA@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

I think that's the current front runner for facts per square metre of copy! 
Fascinating stuff.

Dave Newbitt

-----Original Message----- 
From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2022 5:44 PM
To: tech1
Subject: [Tech1] Friday Night Live

Friday Night Live was on Ch 4 last night.  It came from Versa Studios in 
London. For anybody who had never heard of it, it?s a new studio complex 
which has been open for less than 12 months and it?s sited in Kendal Avenue, 
more or less where the staff car park used to be, near where Metal Box was.

I feel that it?s a slightly more fitting replacement than the trampoline 
halls which replaced the old scanner hall and workshops. That whole area has 
changed out of all recognition since I first worked for OBs.  Features which 
have long since vanished include the railway siding, originally built to 
serve the Bluebird toffee factory, which was our building before it became 
the OB base.  Then the other side of the railway siding was the Napier 
engine factory with its soundproof engine testing shed, which provided much 
entertainment in the BBC canteen when builders were trying to demolish it 
with a giant wrecking ball as seen in all the best cartoon films.  Further 
along was an open grassed area which offered excellent opportunities for 
checking the free air range of radio systems.

All that area was originally part of Acton Aerodrome. Initially opened in 
1910. A major setback was a fire which destroyed most of the hangars and 
aircraft in 1911.  It was rebuilt and mostly used for training pilots but 
the Air Ministry closed it down as it regarded the facilities as inadequate. 
Alliance road took its name from the Alliance aircraft factory with it?s 
distinctive ridged roof which is still there. They built DH9 and DH10 
aircraft there, but WW1 came to an end soon after and it?s glory days were 
short lived.  It was taken over by Renault for car production and they also 
built an adjoining factory which is now the Renault main dealer. During WW2, 
the Alliance factory was used to build wings for Mosquitos and fuselages for 
Avro Ansons.

Ansons were the first RAF aircraft to have retractable undercarriage. None 
of your poncey electric motors to do it though.  The undercarriage was 
retracted by the pilot operating a crank handle which needed 144 turns. 
Unsurprisingly, short flight were often made without bothering to retract 
the undercarriage.

Alan
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 



From geoffletch at gmail.com  Sat Oct 22 12:02:25 2022
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 18:02:25 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Friday Night Live
In-Reply-To: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>
References: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB-cs1gAn_7zmF0Gd3wJ6tAZ9nEfixTEA_d8NhJT6nt5RA@mail.gmail.com>

Big joke by RAF pilots bored with tooling around with a cargo of air
experience ATC cadets in the 1950s was to ?invite? one of them to wind up
the undercart. After 144 turns your arm was dropping off!
Geoff F

On Sat, 22 Oct 2022 at 17:44, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Friday Night Live was on Ch 4 last night.  It came from Versa Studios in
> London. For anybody who had never heard of it, it?s a new studio complex
> which has been open for less than 12 months and it?s sited in Kendal
> Avenue, more or less where the staff car park used to be, near where Metal
> Box was.
>
> I feel that it?s a slightly more fitting replacement than the trampoline
> halls which replaced the old scanner hall and workshops. That whole area
> has changed out of all recognition since I first worked for OBs.  Features
> which have long since vanished include the railway siding, originally built
> to serve the Bluebird toffee factory, which was our building before it
> became the OB base.  Then the other side of the railway siding was the
> Napier engine factory with its soundproof engine testing shed, which
> provided much entertainment in the BBC canteen when builders were trying to
> demolish it with a giant wrecking ball as seen in all the best cartoon
> films.  Further along was an open grassed area which offered excellent
> opportunities for checking the free air range of radio systems.
>
> All that area was originally part of Acton Aerodrome. Initially opened in
> 1910. A major setback was a fire which destroyed most of the hangars and
> aircraft in 1911.  It was rebuilt and mostly used for training pilots but
> the Air Ministry closed it down as it regarded the facilities as
> inadequate. Alliance road took its name from the Alliance aircraft factory
> with it?s distinctive ridged roof which is still there. They built DH9 and
> DH10 aircraft there, but WW1 came to an end soon after and it?s glory days
> were short lived.  It was taken over by Renault for car production and they
> also built an adjoining factory which is now the Renault main dealer.
> During WW2, the Alliance factory was used to build wings for Mosquitos and
> fuselages for Avro Ansons.
>
> Ansons were the first RAF aircraft to have retractable undercarriage. None
> of your poncey electric motors to do it though.  The undercarriage was
> retracted by the pilot operating a crank handle which needed 144 turns.
> Unsurprisingly, short flight were often made without bothering to retract
> the undercarriage.
>
> Alan
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sat Oct 22 12:20:00 2022
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 18:20:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Friday Night Live
In-Reply-To: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>
References: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>
Message-ID: <31D924BA62B540E88D23F7D49BC4908B@Gigabyte>

This Acton Airfield. Alliance Works was the building alongside the road up 
to the A40. Some still exists
The building now Vista was built as the Vehicle workshop with a new BBC Club 
upstairs.
BBC TV News OB units were based there for a while and the spare space at 
then was where several BBC drams were recorded.
Radio OBs were across the other side of Kendal Avenue.

Mike (Ex KA if you hadn't guessed!)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2022 5:44 PM
To: tech1
Subject: [Tech1] Friday Night Live

Friday Night Live was on Ch 4 last night.  It came from Versa Studios in 
London. For anybody who had never heard of it, it?s a new studio complex 
which has been open for less than 12 months and it?s sited in Kendal Avenue, 
more or less where the staff car park used to be, near where Metal Box was.

I feel that it?s a slightly more fitting replacement than the trampoline 
halls which replaced the old scanner hall and workshops. That whole area has 
changed out of all recognition since I first worked for OBs.  Features which 
have long since vanished include the railway siding, originally built to 
serve the Bluebird toffee factory, which was our building before it became 
the OB base.  Then the other side of the railway siding was the Napier 
engine factory with its soundproof engine testing shed, which provided much 
entertainment in the BBC canteen when builders were trying to demolish it 
with a giant wrecking ball as seen in all the best cartoon films.  Further 
along was an open grassed area which offered excellent opportunities for 
checking the free air range of radio systems.

All that area was originally part of Acton Aerodrome. Initially opened in 
1910. A major setback was a fire which destroyed most of the hangars and 
aircraft in 1911.  It was rebuilt and mostly used for training pilots but 
the Air Ministry closed it down as it regarded the facilities as inadequate. 
Alliance road took its name from the Alliance aircraft factory with it?s 
distinctive ridged roof which is still there. They built DH9 and DH10 
aircraft there, but WW1 came to an end soon after and it?s glory days were 
short lived.  It was taken over by Renault for car production and they also 
built an adjoining factory which is now the Renault main dealer. During WW2, 
the Alliance factory was used to build wings for Mosquitos and fuselages for 
Avro Ansons.

Ansons were the first RAF aircraft to have retractable undercarriage. None 
of your poncey electric motors to do it though.  The undercarriage was 
retracted by the pilot operating a crank handle which needed 144 turns. 
Unsurprisingly, short flight were often made without bothering to retract 
the undercarriage.

Alan
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sat Oct 22 12:27:15 2022
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 18:27:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Friday Night Live
In-Reply-To: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>
References: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>
Message-ID: <0907E3E9737D4A61B4E381E4449DE03D@Gigabyte>

Aerial view of KA. OB Base under the blue blob. Hangars just above and 
Central line alongside. A40 at top of frame

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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sat Oct 22 12:28:11 2022
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 18:28:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fw:  Friday Night Live
Message-ID: <7186EA056A6042CDA4452E743ED028CD@Gigabyte>

Did this get sent before? If so - sorry

Mike

This Acton Airfield. Alliance Works was the building alongside the road up
to the A40. Some still exists
The building now Vista was built as the Vehicle workshop with a new BBC Club
upstairs.
BBC TV News OB units were based there for a while and the spare space at
then was where several BBC drams were recorded.
Radio OBs were across the other side of Kendal Avenue.

Mike (Ex KA if you hadn't guessed!)

-----Original Message----- 
From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2022 5:44 PM
To: tech1
Subject: [Tech1] Friday Night Live

Friday Night Live was on Ch 4 last night.  It came from Versa Studios in
London. For anybody who had never heard of it, it?s a new studio complex
which has been open for less than 12 months and it?s sited in Kendal Avenue,
more or less where the staff car park used to be, near where Metal Box was.

I feel that it?s a slightly more fitting replacement than the trampoline
halls which replaced the old scanner hall and workshops. That whole area has
changed out of all recognition since I first worked for OBs.  Features which
have long since vanished include the railway siding, originally built to
serve the Bluebird toffee factory, which was our building before it became
the OB base.  Then the other side of the railway siding was the Napier
engine factory with its soundproof engine testing shed, which provided much
entertainment in the BBC canteen when builders were trying to demolish it
with a giant wrecking ball as seen in all the best cartoon films.  Further
along was an open grassed area which offered excellent opportunities for
checking the free air range of radio systems.

All that area was originally part of Acton Aerodrome. Initially opened in
1910. A major setback was a fire which destroyed most of the hangars and
aircraft in 1911.  It was rebuilt and mostly used for training pilots but
the Air Ministry closed it down as it regarded the facilities as inadequate.
Alliance road took its name from the Alliance aircraft factory with it?s
distinctive ridged roof which is still there. They built DH9 and DH10
aircraft there, but WW1 came to an end soon after and it?s glory days were
short lived.  It was taken over by Renault for car production and they also
built an adjoining factory which is now the Renault main dealer. During WW2,
the Alliance factory was used to build wings for Mosquitos and fuselages for
Avro Ansons.

Ansons were the first RAF aircraft to have retractable undercarriage. None
of your poncey electric motors to do it though.  The undercarriage was
retracted by the pilot operating a crank handle which needed 144 turns.
Unsurprisingly, short flight were often made without bothering to retract
the undercarriage.

Alan
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Oct 22 12:47:45 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 18:47:45 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Friday Night Live
In-Reply-To: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>
References: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>
Message-ID: <4c46c012-9b31-a960-cc3e-7ea1fe67ace5@amps.net>

Retracting the undercarrige brings to mind an excellent documentary on 
TV recently, about the landing of an aircraft , crippled by a dual bird 
strike, which Captain Sullenberger landed in the Hudson River.

Obviously the undercart had to not been lowered as it would slow the 
airspeed, and probably cause the aircraft to cartwheel on hitting the water.

A good film was made: "Sully" and the doco was fascinating, as a number 
of experienced pilots were subjected to rigorous tests on a simulator, 
as to whether an alternative could have been tackled.

All came to the conclusion that Sully made the right decision within 35 
seconds.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549

A good (British) friend of mine emigrated to Canada, became a 747 pilot 
for Air Canada. On one occasion, had to turn back, and the passengers 
were offered another flight.
All wanted to remain with my friend - "if he's as careful as that.......!"
I'm still amazed at him flying from Vancouver to Hawaii!

Pat H


On 22/10/2022 17:44, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> The undercarriage was retracted by the pilot operating a crank handle which needed 144 turns.  Unsurprisingly, short flight were often made without bothering to retract the undercarriage.
>
> Alan


From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sat Oct 22 12:49:02 2022
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 18:49:02 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fw:  Friday Night Live
Message-ID: <658114D4BF9D4FDBAD6C3F046FA8F4E0@Gigabyte>



Did this get sent before? If so - sorry

Mike

This Acton Airfield. Alliance Works was the building alongside the road up
to the A40. Some still exists
The building now Vista was built as the Vehicle workshop with a new BBC Club
upstairs.
BBC TV News OB units were based there for a while and the spare space at
then was where several BBC drams were recorded.
Radio OBs were across the other side of Kendal Avenue.

Mike (Ex KA if you hadn't guessed!)

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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Oct 22 13:05:28 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 19:05:28 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Friday Night Live
In-Reply-To: <0907E3E9737D4A61B4E381E4449DE03D@Gigabyte>
References: <0907E3E9737D4A61B4E381E4449DE03D@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <4113877B-7079-4411-A6D9-D4D1B56D83B4@me.com>

A few years after spotting that picture of KA on the Britain from the Air site, I did a comparison with how it looks today. I couldn?t get the perspective quite right, but it?s close enough to make comparisons.

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Easy points of reference are the two bridges over the central line which runs diagonally across both pictures. The bottom left one is the bridge by North Acton station, while the one centre frame is the one by the Bridge Cafe, leading to Alliance road. The distinctive roof of the Alliance factory is much clearer in this picture. Nearly all the grass has been built on except for in the playing fields, bottom right. The A40 as we now know it didn?t exist in 1928.

Alan



> On 22 Oct 2022, at 18:27, Mike Jordan <mikej at bmanor.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Aerial view of KA. OB Base under the blue blob. Hangars just above and Central line alongside. A40 at top of frame
> 
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From waresound at msn.com  Sun Oct 23 12:19:59 2022
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2022 17:19:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Friday Night Live (was)
In-Reply-To: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>
References: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB16041DFA38ADD97269C1920AA72F9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Mention of the Anson aircraft brings backs massive memories for me! At Wells Cathedral School, circa 1956, we had a choice between Football, Scouts, ACF, or ATC. I had little interest in football, or Scouts - camping out rough all night - so chose the ACF. Rifles and military stuff sounded fun, but I very soon got fed up with lugging Bren guns around on excercises up on the Mendips. Pull-throughs to me were a bore! 
So, I switched at the first opportunity to the ATC. And that brought incredible adventures, first at RAF Locking, which although not an active airfield at the time, was where I got to learn about radio communications, and in the training workshops, actually got to make a pair of pliers! Not particularly well, but I was very proud of them.
But best of all, we got to fly. Towards the end of each month we would often get a call from Yeovilton, where they had fuel that they needed to use up so that their next month?s quota didn?t get cut back. So, the typical treat for us boys was a flight in an Anson! And I do vividly remember being made to wind those undercarriage cranks up and down. We would usually depart from Yeovilton, pass over Bath, then do a low pass over Bristol and up the Avon. As we approached the Clifton Suspension Bridge we would shout ?Go under it, go under it!?. Our pilot would shout back ?You have no idea what a temptation that is!?, and would do a nose-down as if to do so. How they got away with that I?ll never know. Then another low pass, this time a touch-and-go over RAF Locking, and back to Yeovilton. Not a bad day?s outing for a fourteen year-old schoolboy. Those Ansons - sheer Heaven!
But after Wells I went on to Guildford Art School to do Photography, and discovered ?.Girls!!
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

> On 22 Oct 2022, at 17:44, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> ?During WW2, the Alliance factory was used to build wings for Mosquitos and fuselages for Avro Ansons.
> Ansons were the first RAF aircraft to have retractable undercarriage. None of your poncey electric motors to do it though.  The undercarriage was retracted by the pilot operating a crank handle which needed 144 turns.  Unsurprisingly, short flight were often made without bothering to retract the undercarriage.
> 
> Alan
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From relong at btinternet.com  Sun Oct 23 12:43:23 2022
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2022 18:43:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Friday Night Live (was)
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB16041DFA38ADD97269C1920AA72F9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>
	<AM9P191MB16041DFA38ADD97269C1920AA72F9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <58C2DE8D-73C2-419A-97D3-CCFA69797154@btinternet.com>

I was at Bells Grammar School  (founded 1416) in the Forest of Dean 
I was ATC and very keen on aircraft recognition
We went regularly to Filton and flew chipmunks and Provosts , sometimes jet provosts.
Our pilots were Polish and what hairy fliers they were, recreating dogfights over Bristol
Fun for them in the front , hellish in the back ,unknowing of the next vicious move..
ATC uniforms were thick and prickly, hot and scratchy, strapped v tightly cos of the G
It was grisly fun, our other aircraft were Shackletons, maritime Lancs with noisy  contra rotating props which caused Shackleton ear
We flew from North Devon and Inverness-shire 
Long 14 hr anti sub patrols over the Atlantic
Enough to dissuade me from RAF life, I wanted to fly choppers, short sight ended that .
My aircraft recognition came from the Observers book of Aircraft, which I knew cover to cover.
Other squadrons were more advanced than a mere plane spotter
You had to tell a Russkie bomber from the close of a wing nacelle or a window,  us rustics just knew its shillouette.
Roger 

> On 23 Oct 2022, at 18:19, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Mention of the Anson aircraft brings backs massive memories for me! At Wells Cathedral School, circa 1956, we had a choice between Football, Scouts, ACF, or ATC. I had little interest in football, or Scouts - camping out rough all night - so chose the ACF. Rifles and military stuff sounded fun, but I very soon got fed up with lugging Bren guns around on excercises up on the Mendips. Pull-throughs to me were a bore! 
> So, I switched at the first opportunity to the ATC. And that brought incredible adventures, first at RAF Locking, which although not an active airfield at the time, was where I got to learn about radio communications, and in the training workshops, actually got to make a pair of pliers! Not particularly well, but I was very proud of them.
> But best of all, we got to fly. Towards the end of each month we would often get a call from Yeovilton, where they had fuel that they needed to use up so that their next month?s quota didn?t get cut back. So, the typical treat for us boys was a flight in an Anson! And I do vividly remember being made to wind those undercarriage cranks up and down. We would usually depart from Yeovilton, pass over Bath, then do a low pass over Bristol and up the Avon. As we approached the Clifton Suspension Bridge we would shout ?Go under it, go under it!?. Our pilot would shout back ?You have no idea what a temptation that is!?, and would do a nose-down as if to do so. How they got away with that I?ll never know. Then another low pass, this time a touch-and-go over RAF Locking, and back to Yeovilton. Not a bad day?s outing for a fourteen year-old schoolboy. Those Ansons - sheer Heaven!
> But after Wells I went on to Guildford Art School to do Photography, and discovered ?.Girls!!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> 
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 22 Oct 2022, at 17:44, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> [snip]
>> ?During WW2, the Alliance factory was used to build wings for Mosquitos and fuselages for Avro Ansons.
>> Ansons were the first RAF aircraft to have retractable undercarriage. None of your poncey electric motors to do it though.  The undercarriage was retracted by the pilot operating a crank handle which needed 144 turns.  Unsurprisingly, short flight were often made without bothering to retract the undercarriage.
>> 
>> Alan
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Oct 23 14:14:33 2022
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2022 20:14:33 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Friday Night Live (was)
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB16041DFA38ADD97269C1920AA72F9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <FD69549F-5084-41F4-8A94-0EE67A94FACF@me.com>
	<AM9P191MB16041DFA38ADD97269C1920AA72F9@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <4019f6a5-63ec-855c-82e7-d6240818633f@btinternet.com>

... and the rest is history! I was also in the airforce section of my 
grammar school's CCF. We went to various RAF stations in the 50's. At 
Middleton St. George, near Darlington, we were given trips in a Vampire 
trainer and were given the controls when at a safe height! At RAF 
Honnington, East Anglia, all the Canberras took off during the night and 
we were made to swear to the offical secrets act and not to communicate 
with home etc. (as if we could - long before mobiles!). Apparently, they 
had all gone to Malta prior to the Suez fracas! Ansons were a regular as 
were Varsitys. I was always very airsick in those days and I was picked 
fly on a Canberra for it's proving test after repairs! Luckily, for me, 
it was cancelled due to bad weather! Phew! Cheers, Dave


From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com  Mon Oct 24 07:01:18 2022
From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 13:01:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] There'll be another one along in a minute
Message-ID: <e7bcfc60-e8db-9b1c-6120-00a133aa3aac@googlemail.com>

I couldn't resist re-posting this which was put on Nextdoor. Maybe 
you've seen it. I don't think it counts as politics.

John Nottage
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From alawrance1 at me.com  Mon Oct 24 07:03:27 2022
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 13:03:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] There'll be another one along in a minute
In-Reply-To: <e7bcfc60-e8db-9b1c-6120-00a133aa3aac@googlemail.com>
References: <e7bcfc60-e8db-9b1c-6120-00a133aa3aac@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <50592F88-7865-4B70-AD4F-CDA2CF4BD9C0@me.com>

Brilliant, John, quite brilliant!

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 24 Oct 2022, at 13:01, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I couldn't resist re-posting this which was put on Nextdoor. Maybe you've seen it. I don't think it counts as politics.
> 
> John Nottage
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> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Mon Oct 24 07:06:13 2022
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 13:06:13 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] There'll be another one along in a minute
In-Reply-To: <e7bcfc60-e8db-9b1c-6120-00a133aa3aac@googlemail.com>
References: <e7bcfc60-e8db-9b1c-6120-00a133aa3aac@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <3F4BF243-C4BD-433C-90E7-3B5905E3588D@icloud.com>

Very good!

> On 24 Oct 2022, at 13:01, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I couldn't resist re-posting this which was put on Nextdoor. Maybe you've seen it. I don't think it counts as politics.
> 
> John Nottage<No 10 Cat.jpg>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

? 
Graeme Wall




From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Oct 24 07:56:00 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 13:56:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] There'll be another one along in a minute
In-Reply-To: <e7bcfc60-e8db-9b1c-6120-00a133aa3aac@googlemail.com>
References: <e7bcfc60-e8db-9b1c-6120-00a133aa3aac@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <37575785-6a96-bca0-edd7-de755e341945@amps.net>

Lovely! Lovely!

Pat H

On 24/10/2022 13:01, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
> I couldn't resist re-posting this which was put on Nextdoor. Maybe 
> you've seen it. I don't think it counts as politics.
>
> John Nottage
>
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From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Oct 24 08:04:49 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:04:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] There'll be another one along in a minute
In-Reply-To: <e7bcfc60-e8db-9b1c-6120-00a133aa3aac@googlemail.com>
References: <e7bcfc60-e8db-9b1c-6120-00a133aa3aac@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <6659216A-41A4-4DC0-9106-CF19EC960221@me.com>

The newspapers have been saying how Liz Truss set a record by only managing to be Prime Minister for 44 days.

They clearly aren?t familiar with British History because in 1812, Robert Jenkinson was our twenty second prime minister. 

Alan

 

> On 24 Oct 2022, at 13:01, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I couldn't resist re-posting this which was put on Nextdoor. Maybe you've seen it. I don't think it counts as politics.
> 
> John Nottage
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> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 24 09:55:12 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 15:55:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] There'll be another one along in a minute
In-Reply-To: <e7bcfc60-e8db-9b1c-6120-00a133aa3aac@googlemail.com>
References: <e7bcfc60-e8db-9b1c-6120-00a133aa3aac@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <20a1be1b-84f1-4dc8-968d-1a406f470c1d@gmail.com>

Think it was on HIGNFY, footage of Larry shrinking away when she bent 
down to stroke him.? I follow Larry on Twitter.?

On 24/10/2022 13:01, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
> I couldn't resist re-posting this which was put on Nextdoor. Maybe 
> you've seen it. I don't think it counts as politics.
>
> John Nottage
>


From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Mon Oct 24 09:57:43 2022
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 15:57:43 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] There'll be another one along in a minute
In-Reply-To: <6659216A-41A4-4DC0-9106-CF19EC960221@me.com>
References: <e7bcfc60-e8db-9b1c-6120-00a133aa3aac@googlemail.com>
	<6659216A-41A4-4DC0-9106-CF19EC960221@me.com>
Message-ID: <839E4008-E458-4062-BBEE-A5AC5B88FD3E@icloud.com>

Groan!

> On 24 Oct 2022, at 14:04, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Robert Jenkinson

? 
Graeme Wall




From philiptyler at me.com  Tue Oct 25 11:31:20 2022
From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2022 17:31:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Larry
Message-ID: <8060B4AB-C3C2-4673-8A95-B307A64F01BE@me.com>

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From mibridge at mac.com  Tue Oct 25 13:57:51 2022
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2022 19:57:51 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Larry
In-Reply-To: <8060B4AB-C3C2-4673-8A95-B307A64F01BE@me.com>
References: <8060B4AB-C3C2-4673-8A95-B307A64F01BE@me.com>
Message-ID: <50CFBF52-89D2-4205-BB38-8029CA899C5D@mac.com>

Steady on Phil ~ not every one appreciates profanities which might be seen by partners or grandchildren.

Mike G


> On 25 Oct 2022, at 17:31, Philip Tyler via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> <image0.jpeg>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Oct 25 19:08:46 2022
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 01:08:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Larry again
Message-ID: <65da9ea7-af34-fecd-c399-9898ffa2c809@btinternet.com>

.... on the other hand! Cheers, Dave
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From mibridge at mac.com  Wed Oct 26 02:35:24 2022
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 08:35:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Larry again
In-Reply-To: <65da9ea7-af34-fecd-c399-9898ffa2c809@btinternet.com>
References: <65da9ea7-af34-fecd-c399-9898ffa2c809@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <8BDE7C95-9876-4081-80E0-7D1A239823F6@mac.com>

Very tasteful Dave!

Mike G

> On 26 Oct 2022, at 01:09, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?.... on the other hand! Cheers, Dave
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> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 12:10:46 2022
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 18:10:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: MCR21 Newsletter October 2022
In-Reply-To: <24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195.9a951898ec.20221026170023.2dadcd3b3c.2fce800a@mail121.sea172.mcdlv.net>
References: <24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195.9a951898ec.20221026170023.2dadcd3b3c.2fce800a@mail121.sea172.mcdlv.net>
Message-ID: <09400d1d-ab61-3679-6a8e-94ed22a6455c@gmail.com>




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	MCR21 Newsletter October 2022
Date: 	Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:00:31 +0000
From: 	Nick <nick at mcr21.org.uk>
Reply-To: 	Nick <nick at mcr21.org.uk>
To: 	Bernie <bernie833 at gmail.com>



MCR21 Newsletter October 2022 MCR21? Project? 2019 - 2020


  NEWSLETTER

OCTOBER 2022

View In Your Browser 
<https://mailchi.mp/494356f55814/mcr21-newsletter-15550376?e=9a951898ec>

The MCR21 Project, helped by a grant of ?100,000 from the National 
Lottery Heritage Fund, lasted three years starting in 2019. The Project 
finished in July this year. As predicted in our Heritage Fund Project 
Plan, it ended with MCR21 being on display on the piazza at BBC's New 
Broadcasting House for three days at the end of July. On Friday 22nd 
July MCR21 featured on /The One Show /with Alex Jones interviewing Harry 
Coventry, MCR21's first senior cameraman.

Here is a short video showing the events in July

MCR21 PROJECT EVENTS - JULY 22 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=695b8dac6a&e=9a951898ec> 



So was the Project a success in the eyes of the Heritage Fund?
*"Thank you for submitting your final reporting, claim and evaluation.
I thought the evaluation was excellent and the whole team should be 
proud of project achievements. ?It was good to see the learning points 
in the evaluation, and drawing out strength's such as the development of 
a digital strategy and presence, the value of volunteer participation 
and well being, media coverage and your work with students. ?It is good 
to see the project legacy and future plans."*

/Bridget, our Investment Manager at the Heritage Fund,/

*LOOKING BACK*

*3? YEARS OF RESTORATION*



*MCR21 At NEW BROADCASTING HOUSE*

MCR21 and Harry Coventry star on The One Show

*AMBERLEY MUSEUM JULY 22*

 ?????????? MCR21 on Display at Amberley Museum in July
The British Amateur Television Club transmitted pictures from Amberley 
around the world using the call sign GX5BBC

*WIMBLEDON TENNIS CHAMPIONSHIP JULY 2022*

Claire Balding showed off MCR21 at Wimbledon to BBC 1 viewers at the 
start of of play on Sunday 3rd July. It was also an opportunity for the 
thousands of people at the Championships to see the unit.

*GOODWOOD REVIVAL?? SEPTEMBER 2021*


MCR21 made its first public appearance just over a year ago at the 
Goodwood Revival in September 2021- It is always good to have a date to 
work too and MCR21 was looking good for its 'premiere',? if not complete.

*RECREATING A 1960s TELEVISION OUTSIDE BROADCAST*

In October 2019 students from Solent University get together with some 
of the original MCR21 crew to record a jazz concert for display on the 
monitors inside the 1960s TV outside broadcast unit

*AMBERLEY MUSEUM?? AUGUST 2019*

The MCR21 Project was launched to the public at Amberley Museum one 
weekend in August 2019. There were displays, a quiz and lots about the 
history of BBC OBs but no MCR21 - that would happen nearly three years 
later.

*THERE WERE MANY OTHER MEMORABLE MOMENTS
IN THE LAST 3 YEARS*

MCR21 features on BBC Radio Berkshire and BBC TV South Today

MCR21 has been chosen as one of the 100 Objects
that tell the story of the BBC in this centenary year
- alongside Morph and the Meatsafe microphone.

Brian Summers receiving a Pye Mk 6 camera from the Science Museum at 
their Wroughton store. It did take 3 years of negotiations, but I am 
told that is quite quick!

*EDUCATION*

Thinking of our younger generation, Alex at Geomotion produced this 
poster. It was sent to primary schools as part of an education pack, 
along with a video and quiz. You can watch the video, also produced by 
Alex, by clicking on the link below


MCR21 ANIMATION VIDEO 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=5ab3dc9082&e=9a951898ec> 


For a full history of the MCR21 Project over the past 3 years, check out 
the dozens of videos on our YouTube channel

YouTube 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=1fc04b43e9&e=9a951898ec> 


*WHAT NOW?*

While the National Lottery Heritage Fund Project is complete, MCR21 will 
still be on display. It has already been at the Camberley Car Show in 
August, followed by the West London Aero Club Families Day at White 
Waltham, and this month at Royal Holloway London University

Royal Holloway - A little wet at times but lots of interest from the 
students and staff - Thank you to Dr Nick Hall for organising our visit.

*WHAT DO WE WANT?*

VOLUNTEERS
First a Big Thank You to all the volunteers who have made the MCR21 
Project possible. We still need that help to complete the restoration 
but also someone willing to work on other tasks like keeping our 
websites up to date.

A PLACE FOR MCR21 TO KEEP WARM AND DRY
We are on the search for undercover storage for MCR21 during the months 
of December, January and February. It needs to be fairly close to 
MCR21's base near Camberley.

FINANCIAL SUPPORT
Become a friend of MCR21 by setting up a monthly standing order to 
support the Broadcast Television Technology Trust.
We are also happy to accept unwanted broadcast equipment that we might 
sell for funds or even add to the growing Broadcast TV Technology Trust 
equipment collection.




If you can help with any of the above, please contact us

Brian Summers or Nick Gilbey
brian at mcr21.org.uk - nick at mcr21.org.uk
or telephone Nick 07831 219957

If you are willing to make a single donation, Please following the link 
below.

Thank you

DONATE 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=585b5ef149&e=9a951898ec> 


Newsletter June 2022 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=22178e12d3&e=9a951898ec> 


Newsletter March 2022 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=a944055536&e=9a951898ec> 


Newsletter October 2021 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=f57570aada&e=9a951898ec> 


Newsletter June 2021 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=6c077d9ec4&e=9a951898ec> 


Newsletter Februay 2021 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=a42148a69c&e=9a951898ec> 


/Copyright 2022 Broadcast Television Technology Trust, All rights reserved./


Want to change how you receive these emails?
You can update your preferences 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=e1dd2b0508&e=9a951898ec>or 
unsubscribe from this list 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=f268ab261f&e=9a951898ec>.

*The National Lottery Heritage Fund is supporting the MCR21 Project*









This email was sent to bernie833 at gmail.com
/why did I get this?/ 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/about?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=ade95319a6&e=9a951898ec&c=2dadcd3b3c> 
unsubscribe from this list 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=ade95319a6&e=9a951898ec&c=2dadcd3b3c> 
update subscription preferences 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/profile?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=ade95319a6&e=9a951898ec&c=2dadcd3b3c> 

MCR21 ? The Abbots House ? The Street ? Charmouth, Dorset DT6 6QF ? 
United Kingdom
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From waresound at msn.com  Wed Oct 26 16:56:56 2022
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 21:56:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: MCR21 Newsletter October 2022
In-Reply-To: <09400d1d-ab61-3679-6a8e-94ed22a6455c@gmail.com>
References: <24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195.9a951898ec.20221026170023.2dadcd3b3c.2fce800a@mail121.sea172.mcdlv.net>
	<09400d1d-ab61-3679-6a8e-94ed22a6455c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB160449F787267AED5FC4B5F2A7309@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I?m wondering whether MCR21 would have been used for the Consecration of Guildford Cathedral on May 17th., 1961. I was there as part of that event, though not for the BBC, who I had joined the previous year. That event, in the presence of HM the Queen was a rare event for an OB that far from London, only made possible, I?m told, because from the Cathedral (Stag Hill) they had line-of-sight to Crystal Palace and the TV Centre. Not so now because of massive high rise building since then.
There?s lots about it on the cathedral website, and they have a video recording of it all that I managed to procure for them some years ago. Originally recorded on 16mm B&W film, the quality is pretty poor, but of considerable interest OB production-wise nevertheless.
Cheers, N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad

On 26 Oct 2022, at 18:11, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject:        MCR21 Newsletter October 2022
Date:   Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:00:31 +0000
From:   Nick <nick at mcr21.org.uk><mailto:nick at mcr21.org.uk>
Reply-To:       Nick <nick at mcr21.org.uk><mailto:nick at mcr21.org.uk>
To:     Bernie <bernie833 at gmail.com><mailto:bernie833 at gmail.com>


MCR21  Project  2019 - 2020
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/568c7725-d01d-b564-31fb-49cb42023b3a.jpg]

NEWSLETTER
OCTOBER 2022
View In Your Browser<https://mailchi.mp/494356f55814/mcr21-newsletter-15550376?e=9a951898ec>
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/08907e12-93e6-8d0f-f010-a27d969ebe6f.jpeg]
The MCR21 Project, helped by a grant of ?100,000 from the National Lottery Heritage Fund, lasted three years starting in 2019. The Project  finished in July this year. As predicted in our Heritage Fund Project Plan, it ended with MCR21 being on display on the piazza at BBC's New Broadcasting House for three days at the end of July. On Friday 22nd July MCR21 featured on The One Show with Alex Jones interviewing Harry Coventry, MCR21's first senior cameraman.
Here is a short video showing the events in July
MCR21 PROJECT EVENTS - JULY 22<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=695b8dac6a&e=9a951898ec>

So was the Project a success in the eyes of the Heritage Fund?

"Thank you for submitting your final reporting, claim and evaluation.
I thought the evaluation was excellent and the whole team should be proud of project achievements.  It was good to see the learning points in the evaluation, and drawing out strength's such as the development of a digital strategy and presence, the value of volunteer participation and well being, media coverage and your work with students.  It is good to see the project legacy and future plans."

Bridget, our Investment Manager at the Heritage Fund,
LOOKING BACK
3  YEARS OF RESTORATION
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/12289fb7-984f-f1bf-4143-f58e13f98690.jpg]


MCR21 At NEW BROADCASTING HOUSE
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/c42d6ae0-8920-787c-f144-c106d9cfc2d3.jpg]
MCR21 and Harry Coventry star on The One Show
AMBERLEY MUSEUM JULY 22
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/_compresseds/b6a3329b-1ea9-446c-d001-14f1a1da50ac.jpg]
           MCR21 on Display at Amberley Museum in July
The British Amateur Television Club transmitted pictures from Amberley around the world using the call sign GX5BBC
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/30327d03-7b1c-9d76-91ee-f6deccf2b54c.jpeg]
WIMBLEDON TENNIS CHAMPIONSHIP JULY 2022
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/2ae6d92e-c717-f262-b016-36a1a15dc6af.jpg]
Claire Balding showed off MCR21 at Wimbledon to BBC 1 viewers at the start of of play on Sunday 3rd July. It was also an opportunity for the thousands of people at the Championships to see the unit.
GOODWOOD REVIVAL   SEPTEMBER 2021

[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/35537720-598d-a63b-99b6-292023ad8245.jpg]
MCR21 made its first public appearance just over a year ago at the Goodwood Revival in September 2021- It is always good to have a date to work too and MCR21 was looking good for its 'premiere',  if not complete.
RECREATING A 1960s TELEVISION OUTSIDE BROADCAST
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/97468a02-0578-4360-b06f-eedf9b51a3c3.jpg]
In October 2019 students from Solent University get together with some of the original MCR21 crew to record a jazz concert for display on the monitors inside the 1960s TV outside broadcast unit
AMBERLEY MUSEUM   AUGUST 2019
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/b2008749-612b-59b2-089f-9b71e780d90a.jpg]
The MCR21 Project was launched to the public at Amberley Museum one weekend in August 2019. There were displays, a quiz and lots about the history of BBC OBs but no MCR21 - that would happen nearly three years later.
THERE WERE MANY OTHER MEMORABLE MOMENTS
IN THE LAST 3 YEARS
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/cc71b1e8-7788-e9f7-eacf-b5433cc3f093.jpg]
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/f2db5f48-ab40-0eef-76d4-121f8d68747d.png]
MCR21 features on BBC Radio Berkshire and BBC TV South Today
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/20411bcb-1d98-af09-57a2-3aa9371856a9.png]
MCR21 has been chosen as one of the 100 Objects
that tell the story of the BBC in this centenary year
- alongside Morph and the Meatsafe microphone.
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/62887b7c-b94c-efa3-c970-f0aa77431bd4.png]
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/78875f6a-4b42-c22d-dab0-33749345e420.jpg]
Brian Summers receiving a Pye Mk 6 camera from the Science Museum at their Wroughton store. It did take 3 years of negotiations, but I am told that is quite quick!
    EDUCATION
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/ba0757f8-59a2-d49c-7b99-32dda4a150a8.jpg]
Thinking of our younger generation, Alex at Geomotion produced this poster. It was sent to primary schools as part of an education pack, along with a video and quiz. You can watch the video, also produced by Alex, by clicking on the link below

MCR21 ANIMATION VIDEO<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=5ab3dc9082&e=9a951898ec>
For a full history of the MCR21 Project over the past 3 years, check out the dozens of videos on our YouTube channel
YouTube<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=1fc04b43e9&e=9a951898ec>
WHAT NOW?
While the National Lottery Heritage Fund Project is complete, MCR21 will still be on display. It has already been at the Camberley Car Show in August, followed by the West London Aero Club Families Day at White Waltham, and this month at Royal Holloway London University
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/b7f8068f-3f06-f6b1-c690-193f5cb377c7.jpg]
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/d544ebfc-e8bd-0ffd-b0c6-2cfe3cb077da.jpg]
[https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/cb024d69-ab73-0f53-cc29-826a178eda8a.jpg]
Royal Holloway - A little wet at times but lots of interest from the students and staff - Thank you to Dr Nick Hall for organising our visit.

WHAT DO WE WANT?
VOLUNTEERS
First a Big Thank You to all the volunteers who have made the MCR21 Project possible. We still need that help to complete the restoration but also someone willing to work on other tasks like keeping our websites up to date.

A PLACE FOR MCR21 TO KEEP WARM AND DRY
We are on the search for undercover storage for MCR21 during the months of December, January and February. It needs to be fairly close to MCR21's base near Camberley.

FINANCIAL SUPPORT
Become a friend of MCR21 by setting up a monthly standing order to support the Broadcast Television Technology Trust.
We are also happy to accept unwanted broadcast equipment that we might sell for funds or even add to the growing Broadcast TV Technology Trust equipment collection.




If you can help with any of the above, please contact us

Brian Summers or Nick Gilbey
brian at mcr21.org.uk<mailto:brian at mcr21.org.uk>  - nick at mcr21.org.uk<mailto:nick at mcr21.org.uk>
or telephone Nick 07831 219957

If you are willing to make a single donation, Please following the link below.

Thank you
DONATE<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=585b5ef149&e=9a951898ec>
Newsletter June 2022<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=22178e12d3&e=9a951898ec>
Newsletter March 2022<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=a944055536&e=9a951898ec>
Newsletter October 2021<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=f57570aada&e=9a951898ec>
Newsletter June 2021<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=6c077d9ec4&e=9a951898ec>
Newsletter Februay 2021<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=a42148a69c&e=9a951898ec>


Copyright 2022 Broadcast Television Technology Trust, All rights reserved.


Want to change how you receive these emails?
You can update your preferences<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=e1dd2b0508&e=9a951898ec> or unsubscribe from this list<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=f268ab261f&e=9a951898ec>.

[https://gallery.mailchimp.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/a9bcb6a1-65f3-4fa8-ae27-2a37cb2c3816.jpg]
The National Lottery Heritage Fund is supporting the MCR21 Project








This email was sent to bernie833 at gmail.com<mailto:bernie833 at gmail.com>
why did I get this?<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/about?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=ade95319a6&e=9a951898ec&c=2dadcd3b3c>    unsubscribe from this list<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=ade95319a6&e=9a951898ec&c=2dadcd3b3c>    update subscription preferences<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/profile?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=ade95319a6&e=9a951898ec&c=2dadcd3b3c>
MCR21 ? The Abbots House ? The Street ? Charmouth, Dorset DT6 6QF ? United Kingdom


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From brian at summershome.co.uk  Thu Oct 27 16:02:35 2022
From: brian at summershome.co.uk (Brian Summers)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 22:02:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: MCR21 Newsletter October 2022
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB160449F787267AED5FC4B5F2A7309@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195.9a951898ec.20221026170023.2dadcd3b3c.2fce800a@mail121.sea172.mcdlv.net>	<09400d1d-ab61-3679-6a8e-94ed22a6455c@gmail.com>
	<AM9P191MB160449F787267AED5FC4B5F2A7309@AM9P191MB1604.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <01d101d8ea47$708d84d0$51a88e70$@summershome.co.uk>

Hi Nick

 

A little too early for MCR21 which was made in 1963

 

Brian

 

From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: 26 October 2022 22:57
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fwd: MCR21 Newsletter October 2022

 

I?m wondering whether MCR21 would have been used for the Consecration of Guildford Cathedral on May 17th., 1961. I was there as part of that event, though not for the BBC, who I had joined the previous year. That event, in the presence of HM the Queen was a rare event for an OB that far from London, only made possible, I?m told, because from the Cathedral (Stag Hill) they had line-of-sight to Crystal Palace and the TV Centre. Not so now because of massive high rise building since then. 

There?s lots about it on the cathedral website, and they have a video recording of it all that I managed to procure for them some years ago. Originally recorded on 16mm B&W film, the quality is pretty poor, but of considerable interest OB production-wise nevertheless.

Cheers, N.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad





On 26 Oct 2022, at 18:11, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

? 



-------- Forwarded Message -------- 


Subject: 

MCR21 Newsletter October 2022


Date: 

Wed, 26 Oct 2022 17:00:31 +0000


From: 

Nick  <mailto:nick at mcr21.org.uk> <nick at mcr21.org.uk>


Reply-To: 

Nick  <mailto:nick at mcr21.org.uk> <nick at mcr21.org.uk>


To: 

Bernie  <mailto:bernie833 at gmail.com> <bernie833 at gmail.com>












  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/568c7725-d01d-b564-31fb-49cb42023b3a.jpg> 






	

 





NEWSLETTER


OCTOBER 2022

 



 <https://mailchi.mp/494356f55814/mcr21-newsletter-15550376?e=9a951898ec> View In Your Browser 

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/08907e12-93e6-8d0f-f010-a27d969ebe6f.jpeg> 

 




The MCR21 Project, helped by a grant of ?100,000 from the National Lottery Heritage Fund, lasted three years starting in 2019. The Project  finished in July this year. As predicted in our Heritage Fund Project Plan, it ended with MCR21 being on display on the piazza at BBC's New Broadcasting House for three days at the end of July. On Friday 22nd July MCR21 featured on The One Show with Alex Jones interviewing Harry Coventry, MCR21's first senior cameraman. 

 




Here is a short video showing the events in July

 



 <https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=695b8dac6a&e=9a951898ec> MCR21 PROJECT EVENTS - JULY 22 

 





So was the Project a success in the eyes of the Heritage Fund?
 

"Thank you for submitting your final reporting, claim and evaluation.  
I thought the evaluation was excellent and the whole team should be proud of project achievements.  It was good to see the learning points in the evaluation, and drawing out strength's such as the development of a digital strategy and presence, the value of volunteer participation and well being, media coverage and your work with students.  It is good to see the project legacy and future plans."

Bridget, our Investment Manager at the Heritage Fund,

 




LOOKING BACK

 




3  YEARS OF RESTORATION

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/12289fb7-984f-f1bf-4143-f58e13f98690.jpg> 

 






MCR21 At NEW BROADCASTING HOUSE

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/c42d6ae0-8920-787c-f144-c106d9cfc2d3.jpg> 

 




MCR21 and Harry Coventry star on The One Show

 




AMBERLEY MUSEUM JULY 22

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/_compresseds/b6a3329b-1ea9-446c-d001-14f1a1da50ac.jpg> 

 




           MCR21 on Display at Amberley Museum in July

The British Amateur Television Club transmitted pictures from Amberley around the world using the call sign GX5BBC

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/30327d03-7b1c-9d76-91ee-f6deccf2b54c.jpeg> 

 




WIMBLEDON TENNIS CHAMPIONSHIP JULY 2022

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/2ae6d92e-c717-f262-b016-36a1a15dc6af.jpg> 

 




Claire Balding showed off MCR21 at Wimbledon to BBC 1 viewers at the start of of play on Sunday 3rd July. It was also an opportunity for the thousands of people at the Championships to see the unit. 

 




GOODWOOD REVIVAL   SEPTEMBER 2021

 



	

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/35537720-598d-a63b-99b6-292023ad8245.jpg> 

 




MCR21 made its first public appearance just over a year ago at the Goodwood Revival in September 2021- It is always good to have a date to work too and MCR21 was looking good for its 'premiere',  if not complete. 

 




RECREATING A 1960s TELEVISION OUTSIDE BROADCAST

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/97468a02-0578-4360-b06f-eedf9b51a3c3.jpg> 

 




In October 2019 students from Solent University get together with some of the original MCR21 crew to record a jazz concert for display on the monitors inside the 1960s TV outside broadcast unit 

 




AMBERLEY MUSEUM   AUGUST 2019

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/b2008749-612b-59b2-089f-9b71e780d90a.jpg> 

 




The MCR21 Project was launched to the public at Amberley Museum one weekend in August 2019. There were displays, a quiz and lots about the history of BBC OBs but no MCR21 - that would happen nearly three years later.

 




THERE WERE MANY OTHER MEMORABLE MOMENTS
IN THE LAST 3 YEARS

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/cc71b1e8-7788-e9f7-eacf-b5433cc3f093.jpg> 


  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/f2db5f48-ab40-0eef-76d4-121f8d68747d.png> 

 




MCR21 features on BBC Radio Berkshire and BBC TV South Today

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/20411bcb-1d98-af09-57a2-3aa9371856a9.png> 

 




MCR21 has been chosen as one of the 100 Objects

that tell the story of the BBC in this centenary year
- alongside Morph and the Meatsafe microphone.

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/62887b7c-b94c-efa3-c970-f0aa77431bd4.png> 

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/78875f6a-4b42-c22d-dab0-33749345e420.jpg> 

 




Brian Summers receiving a Pye Mk 6 camera from the Science Museum at their Wroughton store. It did take 3 years of negotiations, but I am told that is quite quick! 

 




    EDUCATION

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/ba0757f8-59a2-d49c-7b99-32dda4a150a8.jpg> 

 




Thinking of our younger generation, Alex at Geomotion produced this poster. It was sent to primary schools as part of an education pack, along with a video and quiz. You can watch the video, also produced by Alex, by clicking on the link below 

 



	

 



 <https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=5ab3dc9082&e=9a951898ec> MCR21 ANIMATION VIDEO 

 




For a full history of the MCR21 Project over the past 3 years, check out the dozens of videos on our YouTube channel

 



 <https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=1fc04b43e9&e=9a951898ec> YouTube 

 




WHAT NOW?

 




While the National Lottery Heritage Fund Project is complete, MCR21 will still be on display. It has already been at the Camberley Car Show in August, followed by the West London Aero Club Families Day at White Waltham, and this month at Royal Holloway London University 

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/b7f8068f-3f06-f6b1-c690-193f5cb377c7.jpg> 

 



  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/d544ebfc-e8bd-0ffd-b0c6-2cfe3cb077da.jpg> 


  <https://mcusercontent.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/cb024d69-ab73-0f53-cc29-826a178eda8a.jpg> 

 




Royal Holloway - A little wet at times but lots of interest from the students and staff - Thank you to Dr Nick Hall for organising our visit. 

 




  

WHAT DO WE WANT?

 




VOLUNTEERS
First a Big Thank You to all the volunteers who have made the MCR21 Project possible. We still need that help to complete the restoration but also someone willing to work on other tasks like keeping our websites up to date.

A PLACE FOR MCR21 TO KEEP WARM AND DRY
We are on the search for undercover storage for MCR21 during the months of December, January and February. It needs to be fairly close to MCR21's base near Camberley.

FINANCIAL SUPPORT
Become a friend of MCR21 by setting up a monthly standing order to support the Broadcast Television Technology Trust.
We are also happy to accept unwanted broadcast equipment that we might sell for funds or even add to the growing Broadcast TV Technology Trust equipment collection. 
 



If you can help with any of the above, please contact us

Brian Summers or Nick Gilbey
brian at mcr21.org.uk <mailto:brian at mcr21.org.uk>   - nick at mcr21.org.uk <mailto:nick at mcr21.org.uk> 
or telephone Nick 07831 219957

If you are willing to make a single donation, Please following the link below.

Thank you 

 



 <https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=585b5ef149&e=9a951898ec> DONATE 

 



 <https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=22178e12d3&e=9a951898ec> Newsletter June 2022 

 



 <https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=a944055536&e=9a951898ec> Newsletter March 2022 

 



 <https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=f57570aada&e=9a951898ec> Newsletter October 2021 

 



 <https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=6c077d9ec4&e=9a951898ec> Newsletter June 2021 

 



 <https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=a42148a69c&e=9a951898ec> Newsletter Februay 2021 

 




  

 

 


	


Copyright 2022 Broadcast Television Technology Trust, All rights reserved.


Want to change how you receive these emails?
You can  <https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=e1dd2b0508&e=9a951898ec> update your preferences or  <https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=f268ab261f&e=9a951898ec> unsubscribe from this list.
  

 



  <https://gallery.mailchimp.com/24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195/images/a9bcb6a1-65f3-4fa8-ae27-2a37cb2c3816.jpg> 


The National Lottery Heritage Fund is supporting the MCR21 Project 





	

 


	










This email was sent to bernie833 at gmail.com <mailto:bernie833 at gmail.com>  
 <https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/about?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=ade95319a6&e=9a951898ec&c=2dadcd3b3c> why did I get this?    unsubscribe from this list <https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/unsubscribe?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=ade95319a6&e=9a951898ec&c=2dadcd3b3c>     update subscription preferences <https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/profile?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=ade95319a6&e=9a951898ec&c=2dadcd3b3c>  
MCR21 ? The Abbots House ? The Street ? Charmouth, Dorset DT6 6QF ? United Kingdom 

  <https://s3.amazonaws.com/msv5/images/spacer.gif> 

-- 
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Oct 28 06:30:49 2022
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2022 12:30:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Glyn Alkin's Book on Sound
Message-ID: <0edd3d67-9362-532c-6aa2-707de8bef359@amps.net>

Browsing the Internet recently, I happened across Glyn Alkin's book, 
available to view for free.

I knew of it, but did not realise how comprehensive it was, although 
perhaps not quite up to date with the digital era.

As there have been many adverse comments about sound quality from BH's 
newsroom, it would be useful
for those responsible for the audio thereof, to read it!

Remember the exercises at Wood Norton, to treat an echoey room with 
Cabot's quilts?
Could do with a few of those with contributors from laptops, these days!

Pat H
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From plowmandave44 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 06:50:50 2022
From: plowmandave44 at gmail.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2022 12:50:50 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Glyn Alkin's Book on Sound
In-Reply-To: <0edd3d67-9362-532c-6aa2-707de8bef359@amps.net>
References: <0edd3d67-9362-532c-6aa2-707de8bef359@amps.net>
Message-ID: <e653722e-2eff-5ce0-a156-f1919a2f4425@gmail.com>

Think many contributing by Zoom, etc, are far more concerned with looks. 
Hence always a backdrop of bookshelves. To make them appear well read. 
So couldn't possibly spoil that by wearing a headset, let alone sound 
treatment to the room.

On 28/10/2022 12:30, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Browsing the Internet recently, I happened across Glyn Alkin's book, 
> available to view for free.
>
> I knew of it, but did not realise how comprehensive it was, although 
> perhaps not quite up to date with the digital era.
>
> As there have been many adverse comments about sound quality from BH's 
> newsroom, it would be useful
> for those responsible for the audio thereof, to read it!
>
> Remember the exercises at Wood Norton, to treat an echoey room with 
> Cabot's quilts?
> Could do with a few of those with contributors from laptops, these days!
>
> Pat H
>
>
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From philiptyler at me.com  Sun Oct 30 10:16:36 2022
From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 15:16:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Facebook Hacked.
Message-ID: <0D108F90-9E56-4B2B-83EB-8DA20080A2DC@me.com>

I received a couple of emails from FB saying that they had locked my account as it appeared to have been hacked.

Being careful not to use any links in the email, I used my known FB link to login. Sure enough my account was locked. A fairly painless process allowed me to unlock it.

Hopefully no one has received any dodgy emails seemingly from me.

Philip and Bee

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/
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From philiptyler at me.com  Sun Oct 30 10:36:38 2022
From: philiptyler at me.com (Philip Tyler)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 15:36:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Holiday Insurance
Message-ID: <1EAD28FC-A760-437D-BED5-88376F22FB6F@me.com>

Just a heads up for those looking for holiday insurance. As it looks like the cost of annual holiday insurance has come down. A couple of months ago I was looking for annual holiday insurance including cruise cover. It was all a bit eye watering expensive compared to previous years. But this time it was much more pocket friendly.

Philip and Bee

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/
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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Sun Oct 30 11:58:27 2022
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 16:58:27 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Holiday Insurance
In-Reply-To: <1EAD28FC-A760-437D-BED5-88376F22FB6F@me.com>
References: <1EAD28FC-A760-437D-BED5-88376F22FB6F@me.com>
Message-ID: <020b01d8ec80$d4e2ec00$7ea8c400$@pgtmedia.co.uk>

Hi Phil (and anyone else that?s a BBC Pensioner & younger than 75) if you join the BBC Pensioners Association (?15/year but has to be a year April- March) They have a very cheap yearly travel policy, which is guaranteed to remain the same price for everyone regardless of age, and subject to remaining insured once you get to 75+ (only real requirement is to be declared fit to travel by your own doctor. )

 

So its good value now & very good value once you get to 75.

 

(Its independent of the BBC and has other offers. Its main function is to campaign on behalf of BBC Pensioners an provide info)

 

See https://bbcpa.org.uk/ if interested. 

 

Paul

 

Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

07802 243979

Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk <mailto:paul at pgtmedia.co.uk>  

Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk <http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk/> 

Linkedin;    <http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746> http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Philip Tyler via Tech1
Sent: 30 October 2022 15:37
To: Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: [Tech1] Holiday Insurance

 

Just a heads up for those looking for holiday insurance. As it looks like the cost of annual holiday insurance has come down. A couple of months ago I was looking for annual holiday insurance including cruise cover. It was all a bit eye watering expensive compared to previous years. But this time it was much more pocket friendly.

 

Philip and Bee

 

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/popular-interesting/

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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Sun Oct 30 18:12:10 2022
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 23:12:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another OB Vehicle
Message-ID: <f283ff50-730e-be99-d8f9-81eccdbc0186@howell61.f9.co.uk>

Attention OB Vehicle buffs!

Here's another vehicle to identify, this time I don't know the answer! 
what was 'H729'?

 ?I think it's a Morris Commercial,? 11/2 Ton and judging by the 
radiator blinds it's fitted out for duty in cold Winters. It has a 
London registration, I think it is from about 1951, there appear to be 
flashing direction indicators in the wings as opposed to semaphore, I 
seem to remember my Dad fitting them to our 1939 Standard 'Flying 12' at 
about this time.

Perhaps someone can identify the camera, Any clues?


Hibou.
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Oct 30 18:43:15 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 23:43:15 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another OB Vehicle
In-Reply-To: <f283ff50-730e-be99-d8f9-81eccdbc0186@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <f283ff50-730e-be99-d8f9-81eccdbc0186@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <E92455AA-9406-476B-9648-9C653C0612D6@me.com>

It was the first Roving Eye. Built in 1953 on a Daimler chassis.  Other picture show the radiator in the nude and the characteristic Daimler radiator is more obvious. The camera was the Marconi 1B.

It was the first time that the BBC decided to built an OB vehicle which could transmit live pictures while moving.  There was an onboard generator and a radio link with a range of up to a couple of miles.  The aerial was directional, but used gyro control to keep it automatically pointing in the correct direction irrespective of how the vehicle moved. 

I?m pretty sure it was the vehicle featured in the opening title sequence for Saturday Night Out, driving out of the Wembley OB base, but I can?t find a video of it to check for sure.  The vehicle was extensively used on that series.

I?m not sure how much detail you are after, but you should be able to find quite a bit about it online.  I could probably point you in the right direction if you don?t find what you?re looking for.

Alan



> On 30 Oct 2022, at 23:12, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Attention OB Vehicle buffs!
> 
> Here's another vehicle to identify, this time I don't know the answer! what was 'H729'?
> 
>  I think it's a Morris Commercial,  11/2 Ton and judging by the radiator blinds it's fitted out for duty in cold Winters. It has a London registration, I think it is from about 1951, there appear to be flashing direction indicators in the wings as opposed to semaphore, I seem to remember my Dad fitting them to our 1939 Standard 'Flying 12' at about this time.
> 
> Perhaps someone can identify the camera, Any clues?
> 
> 
> 
> Hibou.
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Oct 30 18:48:36 2022
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 23:48:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another OB Vehicle
In-Reply-To: <E92455AA-9406-476B-9648-9C653C0612D6@me.com>
References: <E92455AA-9406-476B-9648-9C653C0612D6@me.com>
Message-ID: <4662581A-2F4E-4190-8497-5EC5DE0D17BF@me.com>

I should have added that it was originally built with a Marconi 1B, but later updated to a Marconi Mk III. I?m not sure which one is shown in the picture.

Alan


> On 30 Oct 2022, at 23:43, Alan Taylor <alanaudio at me.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> It was the first Roving Eye. Built in 1953 on a Daimler chassis.  Other picture show the radiator in the nude and the characteristic Daimler radiator is more obvious. The camera was the Marconi 1B.
> 
> It was the first time that the BBC decided to built an OB vehicle which could transmit live pictures while moving.  There was an onboard generator and a radio link with a range of up to a couple of miles.  The aerial was directional, but used gyro control to keep it automatically pointing in the correct direction irrespective of how the vehicle moved. 
> 
> I?m pretty sure it was the vehicle featured in the opening title sequence for Saturday Night Out, driving out of the Wembley OB base, but I can?t find a video of it to check for sure.  The vehicle was extensively used on that series.
> 
> I?m not sure how much detail you are after, but you should be able to find quite a bit about it online.  I could probably point you in the right direction if you don?t find what you?re looking for.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
>>> On 30 Oct 2022, at 23:12, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Attention OB Vehicle buffs!
>> 
>> Here's another vehicle to identify, this time I don't know the answer! what was 'H729'?
>> 
>>  I think it's a Morris Commercial,  11/2 Ton and judging by the radiator blinds it's fitted out for duty in cold Winters. It has a London registration, I think it is from about 1951, there appear to be flashing direction indicators in the wings as opposed to semaphore, I seem to remember my Dad fitting them to our 1939 Standard 'Flying 12' at about this time.
>> 
>> Perhaps someone can identify the camera, Any clues?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hibou.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From colin at colinhassell.com  Sun Oct 30 19:14:38 2022
From: colin at colinhassell.com (Colin Hassell)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2022 00:14:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another OB Vehicle
In-Reply-To: <E92455AA-9406-476B-9648-9C653C0612D6@me.com>
References: <E92455AA-9406-476B-9648-9C653C0612D6@me.com>
Message-ID: <D223FCB6-5CD0-498B-85B3-B431F489F121@colinhassell.com>

Here you?ll find the Saturday Night Out opening sequence, about 11 mins in.
It?s from the Alexandra Television Society?s You Tube channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNBSUDgPeps


Colin Hassell
colin at colinhassell.com
St Albans
Herts
UK


> On 30 Oct 2022, at 23:43, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> It was the first Roving Eye. Built in 1953 on a Daimler chassis.  Other picture show the radiator in the nude and the characteristic Daimler radiator is more obvious. The camera was the Marconi 1B.
> 
> It was the first time that the BBC decided to built an OB vehicle which could transmit live pictures while moving.  There was an onboard generator and a radio link with a range of up to a couple of miles.  The aerial was directional, but used gyro control to keep it automatically pointing in the correct direction irrespective of how the vehicle moved. 
> 
> I?m pretty sure it was the vehicle featured in the opening title sequence for Saturday Night Out, driving out of the Wembley OB base, but I can?t find a video of it to check for sure.  The vehicle was extensively used on that series.
> 
> I?m not sure how much detail you are after, but you should be able to find quite a bit about it online.  I could probably point you in the right direction if you don?t find what you?re looking for.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
>>> On 30 Oct 2022, at 23:12, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Attention OB Vehicle buffs!
>> 
>> Here's another vehicle to identify, this time I don't know the answer! what was 'H729'?
>> 
>>  I think it's a Morris Commercial,  11/2 Ton and judging by the radiator blinds it's fitted out for duty in cold Winters. It has a London registration, I think it is from about 1951, there appear to be flashing direction indicators in the wings as opposed to semaphore, I seem to remember my Dad fitting them to our 1939 Standard 'Flying 12' at about this time.
>> 
>> Perhaps someone can identify the camera, Any clues?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hibou.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Mon Oct 31 13:17:09 2022
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2022 18:17:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another OB Vehicle
In-Reply-To: <D223FCB6-5CD0-498B-85B3-B431F489F121@colinhassell.com>
References: <E92455AA-9406-476B-9648-9C653C0612D6@me.com>
	<D223FCB6-5CD0-498B-85B3-B431F489F121@colinhassell.com>
Message-ID: <36ddf005-9c17-3fbd-75e0-28309e42e118@btinternet.com>

Thanks, Colin, great stuff! It's nice to know that we carried on the 
great traditions of these pioneers for so many years, makes you very 
proud, dosn't it! Cheers, Dave