From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Fri Jul 1 03:37:39 2022 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:37:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Scene-Sync In-Reply-To: <5be85d5d-3ed5-7ece-6b13-278c4e6f2bdd@gmail.com> References: <86497581-53b8-b5ab-5b23-e099a234361a@btinternet.com> <5be85d5d-3ed5-7ece-6b13-278c4e6f2bdd@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi All, On 29/06/2022 18:22, Dudley Darby via Tech1 wrote: > it was Scene-Sync, used on The Borgias too. I think it was developed > by Reg King at Evershed Power Optics, There is a short excerpt from "The Scene Sync Story" on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y_28FEIU40 with Roger Bunce and others .. Is this similar to the system used in film to match the camera shot on models to the shot of real actors - although in films the two camera moves are not simultaneous... for example, this technology was used in "Titanic" From the book of the making of the film - [Transcript] "... Instead, the actors now stand on the bow of the ship as it floats in a green=-screen void.? When they embrace, the whine of electric servo-motors kicks in and the motion-controlled camera retraces its exacting path. (The move was originally executed over the 1/20th-scale model of the ship and then scaled up to photograph the actors).? While everything around them is artificial, Leo and Kate's kiss is very real..." James Cameron's Titanic?? 1998? Boxtree Best regards, Alec -- ======= Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Mob: 07789 561 346 Tel: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: LHsWb09SBQg30aax.png Type: image/png Size: 55791 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rerb2 at cam.ac.uk Fri Jul 1 04:22:58 2022 From: rerb2 at cam.ac.uk (R.E.R. Bunce) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 09:22:58 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Model Work Message-ID: Dear all, Very slowly, I?m going to my dad?s collection of photos, scripts etc. I found a bunch of photos, presumably taken in the early 70s, of my Dad[cid:5A8BE4C6-E115-4D8E-BBCD-880F55ADBE53-L0-001][cid:00860571-C571-470A-8252-4ADD81EF6CF9-L0-001][cid:53D3D636-B35C-4437-8AA8-F7B0D13DDA42-L0-001][cid:D7ED3215-E1E0-46BB-9486-688745E3E7DC-L0-001][cid:8E3D5641-33CE-4A22-8781-1825F80626C3-L0-001] using very small cameras to shoot a miniature prehistoric landscape. I attach some photos. If anyone has any idea what program he was working on, I?d love to know. Best wishes, Robin Sent from my iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 407683 bytes Desc: image0.jpeg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 363480 bytes Desc: image1.jpeg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image2.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 473879 bytes Desc: image2.jpeg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image3.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 440734 bytes Desc: image3.jpeg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image4.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 384027 bytes Desc: image4.jpeg URL: From hughsnape at talktalk.net Fri Jul 1 06:32:34 2022 From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 12:32:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Glastonbury In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you for that Doug, the programme works very well on my Mac. Best Hugh > On 27 Jun 2022, at 14:20, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 wrote: > > There is a program called ?get-iPlayer? which is not too fiddly to use. I use it mainly for Radio 4 drama, but also works for video. > Here is a link > https://github.com/get-iplayer/get_iplayer <> > It opens in Command prompt, then open iPlayer in a browser window and find the program that you want to download. Copy the URL. > This is pasted into the Command window with a header telling it what you want it to do. > For example ?get_iplayer --pid=https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0018sfr/glastonbury-paul-mccartney? will download Paul McCartney?s set. > There are many other commands to find a program, or set up the folder to record into. Here is a Youtube tutorial > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2GEododxjQ <> > > > Doug > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Sun Jul 3 17:19:03 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 23:19:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Weather presentation Message-ID: <03D32559689340B0838812FC1F98C0BD@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> There have been a number of comments recently as part of colleagues appraisal of the News at 10 set up. Full length weather presenters in well pulled back shots don?t generally seem to have gone down too well. I have been entirely in agreement until this evening when, were it not for Stav Danaos appearing top to toe, I would not have realised that winklepickers were back in fashion. So as an education for us country hicks, the new format serves a purpose! Dave Newbitt. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Mon Jul 4 02:14:32 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 08:14:32 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Scanners on Google Earth Message-ID: I was chatting with the guy who lives over the road and he mentioned satellite imagery. I said that it seems odd that none of the huge OB trucks seem to have been seen on location. His reply was that I obviously have not talked to any Aston Villa supporters. Sure enough, it looks to be a CTV scanner, together with what is probably a genny and a sat truck, together with coils of cables. Alan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.png Type: image/png Size: 147562 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 04:27:41 2022 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 10:27:41 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Message-ID: Hi all, Pat and I have been conversing about TV technology in the sort of mid 1960s to the late 1970s timeframe, and I realised that we don't really have much about what it was like to be an operator on the day-to-day activities - we have lots of stories about when things don't go to plan, but not much about when things ran smoothly.... So any stories, tales, illuminating information, write-ups, script bits, notes, diary entries for any of the following topics would be great - and please add to the list ... 0.? Dress code (white) shirt, tie - NO JEANS!! soft soled shoes (Desert Boots popular) 1...Going Live protocol - cue dots, conversations with Pres and Network Control? - ITV using cue dots until quite recently for advert breaks in live progs... 2.? VT protocol - any nearby camera not on shot one on the clock, any distortion acceptable, countdown, stop at 3, 3.? Film recording protocol -was there one?? TOM (TM2) saying film running? 4.? The role of the TOM latterly TM2? -man the phones, check status of inputs and outputs... 5,? Inlay and overlay - swipe right ... 6.? Vision Mixing - in 1963 the VMs were part of TO 7.? Rig and derig - warm up cameras, hot standby 9but many TC studios on dramas used all cameras!) 8.? The role of Racks? (who were TAs, nut TK were TOs - what were VT? 9.? ROLLER CAPTIONS - timing the roller - usually roller speed adjusted to music but on Dr Who seems to be the other way about... 10.? Practical sets, practical beer engines 11.? PBUs for set bar fronts, backgrounds etc. 12.Talkback, development of reverse talkback 13. Cue lights on cams (taken off sometimes),? portable cue lights on stands 14.? Stewart Morris splitting the mixing desk, two mixers, mixed the same performance in two different ways 15.Autocue and Teleprompt, extra cabling, limited cam movement 16.Tying off cable - yellow bars, fireboards 17? Lethal 13 amp plug? with fuse as one of the plug arms 18. Coiling cables, camera cable figure of eight Well, I'm certain sure that there's lots more Best regards, Alec -- ======= Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Mob: 07789 561 346 Tel: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Mon Jul 4 09:42:34 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 15:42:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alec, Ref Item 4 ? the role of the TOM. When I joined in 1962 the TOM did of course occupy the senior role as part of the camera crew. Thus matters of crew discipline, applications for leave etc. were through him until later re-jigging when as TM IIs they were on free allocation and Senior Cameramen assumed the role of father figure. My first TOM (crew 8) was Frank Cresswell ? an absolute gentleman of the old school who discharged his duties impeccably and had the measure of any gallery production staff who were too pushy. Any yea or nay from VT following recorded programmes was to the TOM who advised production and crew members accordingly. Dave Newbitt. From: Alec Bray via Tech1 Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 10:27 AM To: Tech Ops Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Hi all, Pat and I have been conversing about TV technology in the sort of mid 1960s to the late 1970s timeframe, and I realised that we don't really have much about what it was like to be an operator on the day-to-day activities - we have lots of stories about when things don't go to plan, but not much about when things ran smoothly.... So any stories, tales, illuminating information, write-ups, script bits, notes, diary entries for any of the following topics would be great - and please add to the list ... 0. Dress code (white) shirt, tie - NO JEANS!! soft soled shoes (Desert Boots popular) 1...Going Live protocol - cue dots, conversations with Pres and Network Control - ITV using cue dots until quite recently for advert breaks in live progs... 2. VT protocol - any nearby camera not on shot one on the clock, any distortion acceptable, countdown, stop at 3, 3. Film recording protocol -was there one? TOM (TM2) saying film running? 4. The role of the TOM latterly TM2? -man the phones, check status of inputs and outputs... 5, Inlay and overlay - swipe right ... 6. Vision Mixing - in 1963 the VMs were part of TO 7. Rig and derig - warm up cameras, hot standby 9but many TC studios on dramas used all cameras!) 8. The role of Racks (who were TAs, nut TK were TOs - what were VT? 9. ROLLER CAPTIONS - timing the roller - usually roller speed adjusted to music but on Dr Who seems to be the other way about... 10. Practical sets, practical beer engines 11. PBUs for set bar fronts, backgrounds etc. 12.Talkback, development of reverse talkback 13. Cue lights on cams (taken off sometimes), portable cue lights on stands 14. Stewart Morris splitting the mixing desk, two mixers, mixed the same performance in two different ways 15.Autocue and Teleprompt, extra cabling, limited cam movement 16.Tying off cable - yellow bars, fireboards 17 Lethal 13 amp plug with fuse as one of the plug arms 18. Coiling cables, camera cable figure of eight Well, I'm certain sure that there's lots more Best regards, Alec -- ======= Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Mob: 07789 561 346 Tel: 0118 981 7502 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoffletch at gmail.com Mon Jul 4 11:25:53 2022 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 17:25:53 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1CA63D98-D0CC-4739-A5C8-B5F4CC421473@gmail.com> Hi Alec, I wrote this article about Riverside studios way back in August 2012. About half of it relates to my stint on Inlay duties, so I hope it will be ofi nterest as regards item 5 on your list. Hope all is well with you and yours. Geoff F > On 4 Jul 2022, at 10:27, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Pat and I have been conversing about TV technology in the sort of mid 1960s to the late 1970s timeframe, and I realised that we don't really have much about what it was like to be an operator on the day-to-day activities - we have lots of stories about when things don't go to plan, but not much about when things ran smoothly.... > > So any stories, tales, illuminating information, write-ups, script bits, notes, diary entries for any of the following topics would be great - and please add to the list ... > > > > > > 0. Dress code (white) shirt, tie - NO JEANS!! soft soled shoes (Desert Boots popular) > > 1...Going Live protocol - cue dots, conversations with Pres and Network Control - ITV using cue dots until quite recently for advert breaks in live progs... > > 2. VT protocol - any nearby camera not on shot one on the clock, any distortion acceptable, countdown, stop at 3, > > 3. Film recording protocol -was there one? TOM (TM2) saying film running? > > 4. The role of the TOM latterly TM2? -man the phones, check status of inputs and outputs... > > 5, Inlay and overlay - swipe right ... > > 6. Vision Mixing - in 1963 the VMs were part of TO > > 7. Rig and derig - warm up cameras, hot standby 9but many TC studios on dramas used all cameras!) > > 8. The role of Racks (who were TAs, nut TK were TOs - what were VT? > > 9. ROLLER CAPTIONS - timing the roller - usually roller speed adjusted to music but on Dr Who seems to be the other way about... > > 10. Practical sets, practical beer engines > > 11. PBUs for set bar fronts, backgrounds etc. > > 12.Talkback, development of reverse talkback > > 13. Cue lights on cams (taken off sometimes), portable cue lights on stands > > 14. Stewart Morris splitting the mixing desk, two mixers, mixed the same performance in two different ways > > 15.Autocue and Teleprompt, extra cabling, limited cam movement > > 16.Tying off cable - yellow bars, fireboards > > 17 Lethal 13 amp plug with fuse as one of the plug arms > > 18. Coiling cables, camera cable figure of eight > > > > > > Well, I'm certain sure that there's lots more > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Alec > > > > -- > ======= > > Alec Bray > > alec.bray.2 at gmail.com > Mob: 07789 561 346 > Tel: 0118 981 7502 > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Riverside Ramblings.doc Type: application/msword Size: 27648 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doug at puddifoot.me Mon Jul 4 12:21:11 2022 From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 18:21:11 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6B3C5C1CE0A9458BA12EDDE3ADF1AB50@NewOffice> Nearly fifty years and I?m still doing it Doug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image[2].png Type: image/png Size: 1307115 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Mon Jul 4 12:47:19 2022 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 18:47:19 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <6B3C5C1CE0A9458BA12EDDE3ADF1AB50@NewOffice> References: <6B3C5C1CE0A9458BA12EDDE3ADF1AB50@NewOffice> Message-ID: <9B7471B82EC94CACACB2338DC8CA60AF@Gigabyte> A few years ago I was helping our local school with their drama show ? including sound and abit of lighting. At derig, one of the boys was trying to sort out a 200ft or so length of mic cable wrapping it over his arm like mum with washing line. I just laid it out across the hall and did a simple coil (not actually figure 8), twisting as I went and he was absolutely amazed. He then tried and was successful ? made his day. Just comes naturally doesn't it. Much easier with a hose or even a multi compared with G101 or similar! Mike From: Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 Sent: Monday, July 04, 2022 6:21 PM To: Tech1 Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Nearly fifty years and I?m still doing it Doug -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image[2].png Type: image/png Size: 1307115 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david.beer at talktalk.net Mon Jul 4 14:59:57 2022 From: david.beer at talktalk.net (David Beer) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 20:59:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <9B7471B82EC94CACACB2338DC8CA60AF@Gigabyte> References: <6B3C5C1CE0A9458BA12EDDE3ADF1AB50@NewOffice> <9B7471B82EC94CACACB2338DC8CA60AF@Gigabyte> Message-ID: <2b37fa02-0512-ddaf-0142-377cabe9c0eb@talktalk.net> Yes, it still comes in useful for larger cables, but I refer you to my post some years ago which explains the Roadie Wrap for smaller cables. Take a look at https://youtu.be/kda4DPAn3C4 which explains the technique. Just remember, 'Overworked and Underpaid!' Dave On 04/07/2022 18:47, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote: > A few years ago I was helping our local school with their drama show ? > including sound and abit of lighting. > At derig, one of the boys was trying to sort out a 200ft or so length > of mic cable wrapping it over his arm like mum with washing line. > I just laid it out across the hall and did a simple coil (not actually > figure 8), twisting as I went and he was absolutely amazed. He then > tried and was successful ? made his day. > Just comes naturally doesn't it. Much easier with a hose or even a > multi compared with G101 or similar! > Mike > *From:* Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 > *Sent:* Monday, July 04, 2022 6:21 PM > *To:* Tech1 > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age > image > Nearly fifty years and I?m still doing it > Doug > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image%5B2%5D.png Type: image/png Size: 1307115 bytes Desc: not available URL: From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Mon Jul 4 15:31:55 2022 From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray) Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2022 21:31:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Mon Jul 4 16:56:14 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 22:56:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > 8. The role of Racks (who were TAs, nut TK were TOs - what were VT? > The T.A. was a Technical Assistant. Essentially it was the entry point for trainee engineers. I can?t speak for studios, but on OBs, the TA assisted the engineers and would do a certain amount of the engineering tasks under supervision once they were deemed to be sufficiently competent. Official duties involved things like rigging monitors and setting up the caption scanner, which was a metal box on wheels, about a metre cube, containing a B&W camera, lighting and the means to handle 9?x12? caption cards in metal holders. A caption could be withdrawn by sliding upwards while in shot and the next caption would neatly spring into place. In the early days of colour television, monitors needed to be aligned every day, PAL coders needed careful adjustment and of course the cameras needed frequent registration and colour balancing. Strictly speaking these were tasks for engineers, but in reality TAs were keen to learn how to do it and were often encouraged to try. They would also act as meal reliefs, operating racks on some of the cameras during long shows. Racks is the name by which vision engineers are known. They were responsible for setting up, repairing and adjusting all the vision equipment. The early days of colour relied on some rather temperamental equipment which needed frequent tweaking in order to produce satisfactory pictures. They got their name from ?racking? the cameras. They would sit at a rack of equipment, continually optimising the iris and black level controls for two cameras each ( comparable in effect to contrast and brightness controls ), along with any number of other adjustments needed from time to time. They judged the picture quality by using a monitor and a waveform monitor. On OBs, racks engineers spent six months on the road, followed by six months in base working in the maintenance rooms, repairing and servicing the cameras, monitors and sound equipment. I started in the BBC as a TA. I actually wanted to be a film recordist, but didn?t know the correct name for the job, so I wrote to the BBC saying that I would like to apply to be a sound engineer. When I was called for interview, I showed off my technical knowledge and was instead offered a job as a T.A. It was only when I started the training course at Evesham that I realised I had been recruited into the wrong job. To cut a long story short, once I got to Kendal Avenue, if I had completed the ?C? course, I would have gone on to become a fully qualified racks engineer, but that wasn?t what I wanted, so I slowed down my progression by applying for attachments to sound dept and anywhere else which would have me. It seemed to be very difficult to transfer to sound dept, even though Colin White wanted to have me. Eventually I discovered that my line manager in the engineering department was blocking my transfer as a favour to me because he knew that the academic entry qualifications for TAs required A level qualifications, while TOs could join with O levels. He felt that I was applying for demotion and was protecting my interests until I saw the error of my ways. Once I realised what the obstruction was, I was able to circumvent it and permanently transfer to sound. Looking back, although at the time I resented wasting several years by doing the wrong job, those attachments to other departments gave me an unusually wide experience of many aspects of OB work, which proved to be invaluable later in my career, especially when I started freelancing and job descriptions were a little more flexible. Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Tue Jul 5 03:53:35 2022 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 09:53:35 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Suspicious text message- does anyone know about this? Message-ID: <846D3CDD-CAC9-446A-82BA-0B3C98B3F5D4@gmail.com> I received a text message this morning telling me that I?d been in close contact with a confirmed Omicron case and that I should order a PCR test from the link national-health-uk.com Does anyone know if this is likely to be genuine or a scam? I?m not going to give it the benefit of the doubt at present anyway but it would be good to hear if any of you have had a similar message, Geoff Hawkes From relong at btinternet.com Tue Jul 5 12:53:14 2022 From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 18:53:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I too felt I was in the wrong job initially in the Beeb At my board they produced the missive I had written at the age of 12 to them. I was fascinated by tape machines, mics , editing and echo devices. ( I had an Engineering Monograph on Radio Phonic workshops by Daphne Orram) I was employed as a TO, perhaps I should have been a Radio SM. I was sent to Bush for on station training and thence to ETD Wood Norton. The control room work, lines and control bored me stiff. Luckily Tape editing came my way and then an attachment to Studio Managing which I enjoyed. At the same time a copy of Aerial introduced me to the world of filming I applied to be a trainee Sound Recordist . That was more like it , even if it required base transfer and dubbing work , it enabled life on the road to be revealed and I loved being a boom op. I did many Plays for Today and foreign shooting as an assistant recordist, eventually becoming a recordist in Bristol aged 26. That was an eye opener, much more friendly than TFS Ealing and the travel amazing in scope and distance. The NHU, Music and Arts , Anthropology, Docs and Drama all came our way.. It did work out alright in the end, it was a mystery sometimes, more of a miracle perhaps. Roger , > On 4 Jul 2022, at 22:56, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > >> 8. The role of Racks (who were TAs, nut TK were TOs - what were VT? >> > > The T.A. was a Technical Assistant. Essentially it was the entry point for trainee engineers. I can?t speak for studios, but on OBs, the TA assisted the engineers and would do a certain amount of the engineering tasks under supervision once they were deemed to be sufficiently competent. > > Official duties involved things like rigging monitors and setting up the caption scanner, which was a metal box on wheels, about a metre cube, containing a B&W camera, lighting and the means to handle 9?x12? caption cards in metal holders. A caption could be withdrawn by sliding upwards while in shot and the next caption would neatly spring into place. > > In the early days of colour television, monitors needed to be aligned every day, PAL coders needed careful adjustment and of course the cameras needed frequent registration and colour balancing. Strictly speaking these were tasks for engineers, but in reality TAs were keen to learn how to do it and were often encouraged to try. They would also act as meal reliefs, operating racks on some of the cameras during long shows. > > Racks is the name by which vision engineers are known. They were responsible for setting up, repairing and adjusting all the vision equipment. The early days of colour relied on some rather temperamental equipment which needed frequent tweaking in order to produce satisfactory pictures. They got their name from ?racking? the cameras. They would sit at a rack of equipment, continually optimising the iris and black level controls for two cameras each ( comparable in effect to contrast and brightness controls ), along with any number of other adjustments needed from time to time. They judged the picture quality by using a monitor and a waveform monitor. On OBs, racks engineers spent six months on the road, followed by six months in base working in the maintenance rooms, repairing and servicing the cameras, monitors and sound equipment. > > I started in the BBC as a TA. I actually wanted to be a film recordist, but didn?t know the correct name for the job, so I wrote to the BBC saying that I would like to apply to be a sound engineer. When I was called for interview, I showed off my technical knowledge and was instead offered a job as a T.A. It was only when I started the training course at Evesham that I realised I had been recruited into the wrong job. > > To cut a long story short, once I got to Kendal Avenue, if I had completed the ?C? course, I would have gone on to become a fully qualified racks engineer, but that wasn?t what I wanted, so I slowed down my progression by applying for attachments to sound dept and anywhere else which would have me. It seemed to be very difficult to transfer to sound dept, even though Colin White wanted to have me. Eventually I discovered that my line manager in the engineering department was blocking my transfer as a favour to me because he knew that the academic entry qualifications for TAs required A level qualifications, while TOs could join with O levels. He felt that I was applying for demotion and was protecting my interests until I saw the error of my ways. Once I realised what the obstruction was, I was able to circumvent it and permanently transfer to sound. > > Looking back, although at the time I resented wasting several years by doing the wrong job, those attachments to other departments gave me an unusually wide experience of many aspects of OB work, which proved to be invaluable later in my career, especially when I started freelancing and job descriptions were a little more flexible. > > Alan > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jul 5 14:04:30 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 20:04:30 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 5 Jul 2022, at 18:53, Roger E Long wrote: > > ?I too felt I was in the wrong job initially in the Beeb I?m convinced that the reason I was put into the wrong job was due to the recruitment interview board. I had explained that I was very keen on using tape recorders creatively, had used the school Ferrographs extensively, but wanted a tape recorder which I could use at home. My parents couldn?t afford to buy one for me, but with my savings and a massive contribution from my parents, I was able to afford a tape recorder in kit form. I also made minor modifications to it to make it more versatile. The interview board seemed quite impressed that I claimed to have built a tape recorder and tested me about how things like bias oscillators and how the erase head works. Obviously I mentioned the hysteresis of magnetic tape and how the bias helps to overcome it. They seemed impressed, so I carried on in the same vein. They completely ignored the fact that I learned how to build a tape recorder because I wanted one to use creatively. All they could see was that I was handy with a soldering iron and a test meter. My interest was with the operational aspects. The engineering knowledge was acquired mostly as a means to an end, and a general inquisitiveness about how things work. Alan From waresound at msn.com Tue Jul 5 15:43:08 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 20:43:08 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Was it an Aspden tape deck by any chance? If you Google that, there?s a page from Wireless World Feb 1957 that shows an ad for it. Plywood deck plate. Valves underneath. My next after that was a Collaro deck with Mullard Type C tape rec/rep amp (kit). Then things got grander, with a Wearite (Ferrograph) deck, and again Mullard type C. None of that helped get me into the BBC though. Modest beginnings! Nick. Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > On 5 Jul 2022, at 20:05, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > > ? >> On 5 Jul 2022, at 18:53, Roger E Long wrote: >> >> ?I too felt I was in the wrong job initially in the Beeb > > I?m convinced that the reason I was put into the wrong job was due to the recruitment interview board. > > I had explained that I was very keen on using tape recorders creatively, had used the school Ferrographs extensively, but wanted a tape recorder which I could use at home. My parents couldn?t afford to buy one for me, but with my savings and a massive contribution from my parents, I was able to afford a tape recorder in kit form. I also made minor modifications to it to make it more versatile. > > The interview board seemed quite impressed that I claimed to have built a tape recorder and tested me about how things like bias oscillators and how the erase head works. Obviously I mentioned the hysteresis of magnetic tape and how the bias helps to overcome it. They seemed impressed, so I carried on in the same vein. > > They completely ignored the fact that I learned how to build a tape recorder because I wanted one to use creatively. All they could see was that I was handy with a soldering iron and a test meter. My interest was with the operational aspects. The engineering knowledge was acquired mostly as a means to an end, and a general inquisitiveness about how things work. > > Alan > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jul 5 16:22:23 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 22:22:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The original tape deck I had was a Collaro Studio deck. The valve electronics were bought as a kit from one of the shops in Edgeware Road. I can?t remember the name. They have long since gone. I also built a twin tape and twin record deck system for the school hall, using similar kits and decks ( with Garrard SP25 record decks ), to be used every day for playing music in assembly, but more importantly, for grams in school plays, some of which were quite sophisticated from an audio point of view. With the hard earned cash from my Saturday job, I later managed to buy a Brennell tape deck which had superficial cosmetic damage and was sold by my local HiFi shop for a clearance price. I wanted to have two tape recorders so that I could bounce recordings from one to the other and add extra material during the transfer. I had sussed out that I could get by with one of them only doing replay, so I built some transistorised tape replay pre amps. It was mounted in a very stylish plinth, which was made from the polished walnut dashboard of a brand new upmarket car - our neighbour worked at the car factory and asked my dad if he had any use for it. Building transistorised record and erase electronics was far beyond my capability at that time. I never got round to building them as once I started working at the Beeb, I was able to afford a Ferrograph series 6, which I still have. Alan > On 5 Jul 2022, at 21:43, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Was it an Aspden tape deck by any chance? If you Google that, there?s a page from Wireless World Feb 1957 that shows an ad for it. Plywood deck plate. Valves underneath. My next after that was a Collaro deck with Mullard Type C tape rec/rep amp (kit). Then things got grander, with a Wearite (Ferrograph) deck, and again Mullard type C. > None of that helped get me into the BBC though. > Modest beginnings! > Nick. > Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > >> On 5 Jul 2022, at 20:05, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ? >>>> On 5 Jul 2022, at 18:53, Roger E Long wrote: >>> >>> ?I too felt I was in the wrong job initially in the Beeb >> >> I?m convinced that the reason I was put into the wrong job was due to the recruitment interview board. >> >> I had explained that I was very keen on using tape recorders creatively, had used the school Ferrographs extensively, but wanted a tape recorder which I could use at home. My parents couldn?t afford to buy one for me, but with my savings and a massive contribution from my parents, I was able to afford a tape recorder in kit form. I also made minor modifications to it to make it more versatile. >> >> The interview board seemed quite impressed that I claimed to have built a tape recorder and tested me about how things like bias oscillators and how the erase head works. Obviously I mentioned the hysteresis of magnetic tape and how the bias helps to overcome it. They seemed impressed, so I carried on in the same vein. >> >> They completely ignored the fact that I learned how to build a tape recorder because I wanted one to use creatively. All they could see was that I was handy with a soldering iron and a test meter. My interest was with the operational aspects. The engineering knowledge was acquired mostly as a means to an end, and a general inquisitiveness about how things work. >> >> Alan >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Tue Jul 5 17:10:02 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 23:10:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Might your valve electronics kits have come from Sterns (Stern Clyne)? They did kits for all the Mullard designs, several of which I purchased and made up. I looked to see if I still had the assembly manual for the Type C tape amp but could only find those for the 3-3 series amps and the pre-amp. Happy days! I also still have the thick full catalogues from Home Radio of Mitcham from the 1960's who were another brilliant source of components. Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2022 10:22 PM To: tech1 Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age The original tape deck I had was a Collaro Studio deck. The valve electronics were bought as a kit from one of the shops in Edgeware Road. I can?t remember the name. They have long since gone. I also built a twin tape and twin record deck system for the school hall, using similar kits and decks ( with Garrard SP25 record decks ), to be used every day for playing music in assembly, but more importantly, for grams in school plays, some of which were quite sophisticated from an audio point of view. With the hard earned cash from my Saturday job, I later managed to buy a Brennell tape deck which had superficial cosmetic damage and was sold by my local HiFi shop for a clearance price. I wanted to have two tape recorders so that I could bounce recordings from one to the other and add extra material during the transfer. I had sussed out that I could get by with one of them only doing replay, so I built some transistorised tape replay pre amps. It was mounted in a very stylish plinth, which was made from the polished walnut dashboard of a brand new upmarket car - our neighbour worked at the car factory and asked my dad if he had any use for it. Building transistorised record and erase electronics was far beyond my capability at that time. I never got round to building them as once I started working at the Beeb, I was able to afford a Ferrograph series 6, which I still have. Alan > On 5 Jul 2022, at 21:43, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Was it an Aspden tape deck by any chance? If you Google that, there?s a > page from Wireless World Feb 1957 that shows an ad for it. Plywood deck > plate. Valves underneath. My next after that was a Collaro deck with > Mullard Type C tape rec/rep amp (kit). Then things got grander, with a > Wearite (Ferrograph) deck, and again Mullard type C. > None of that helped get me into the BBC though. > Modest beginnings! > Nick. > Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > >> On 5 Jul 2022, at 20:05, Alan Taylor via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? >>>> On 5 Jul 2022, at 18:53, Roger E Long wrote: >>> >>> ?I too felt I was in the wrong job initially in the Beeb >> >> I?m convinced that the reason I was put into the wrong job was due to the >> recruitment interview board. >> >> I had explained that I was very keen on using tape recorders creatively, >> had used the school Ferrographs extensively, but wanted a tape recorder >> which I could use at home. My parents couldn?t afford to buy one for me, >> but with my savings and a massive contribution from my parents, I was >> able to afford a tape recorder in kit form. I also made minor >> modifications to it to make it more versatile. >> >> The interview board seemed quite impressed that I claimed to have built a >> tape recorder and tested me about how things like bias oscillators and >> how the erase head works. Obviously I mentioned the hysteresis of >> magnetic tape and how the bias helps to overcome it. They seemed >> impressed, so I carried on in the same vein. >> >> They completely ignored the fact that I learned how to build a tape >> recorder because I wanted one to use creatively. All they could see was >> that I was handy with a soldering iron and a test meter. My interest was >> with the operational aspects. The engineering knowledge was acquired >> mostly as a means to an end, and a general inquisitiveness about how >> things work. >> >> Alan >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jul 5 18:55:06 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 00:55:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> I think you?re right about the kit coming from Stern Clyne. It would have been from their Edgeware road branch and the street number looks about right. Alan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 408892 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- > On 5 Jul 2022, at 23:10, David Newbitt wrote: > > ?Might your valve electronics kits have come from Sterns (Stern Clyne)? They did kits for all the Mullard designs, several of which I purchased and made up. I looked to see if I still had the assembly manual for the Type C tape amp but could only find those for the 3-3 series amps and the pre-amp. Happy days! I also still have the thick full catalogues from Home Radio of Mitcham from the 1960's who were another brilliant source of components. > > Dave Newbitt. From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Wed Jul 6 02:58:08 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 08:58:08 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> Message-ID: <2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> This has triggered off a bout of old literature rummaging and I found a long forgotten treasure from the past. My copy of the "Mullard Circuits for Audio Amplifiers" surfaced, 2nd ed. (revised) 1962 - 136 pages price 8/6d! I would guess not too many of these will have survived. In those days you could ring up Mullard Laboratories and without difficulty find a knowledgeable chap who would be quite happy to spend 20 minutes talking to you about valve characteristics. I remember also when building the Radford amp design needing the specified special twin gang pots. Couldn't get them anywhere but I talked to Plessey who sent them to me gratis on a 'sample'basis. What a different world it was. Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2022 12:55 AM To: tech1 Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age I think you?re right about the kit coming from Stern Clyne. It would have been from their Edgeware road branch and the street number looks about right. Alan > On 5 Jul 2022, at 23:10, David Newbitt wrote: > > ?Might your valve electronics kits have come from Sterns (Stern Clyne)? > They did kits for all the Mullard designs, several of which I purchased > and made up. I looked to see if I still had the assembly manual for the > Type C tape amp but could only find those for the 3-3 series amps and the > pre-amp. Happy days! I also still have the thick full catalogues from Home > Radio of Mitcham from the 1960's who were another brilliant source of > components. > > Dave Newbitt. -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Wed Jul 6 04:16:55 2022 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:16:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> Message-ID: A lot of my early stuff came from Henrys Radio of course (also in Edgeware Road) and I still have a catalogue somewhere in my pile of old stuff. Earlier I had sourced switches etc from a shop down the road near school in Brentwood who stocked old military bits. My first "Comms and radio" experience was in the CCF with 38sets and telephone systems strung across the tents at annual camp My first home-built tape recorder also was bits from I forget where in Edgeware Road. The attached is an example of how we used to make our own test equipment (actually inherited by the head man in BH Lines dept) and some spare valves if you want them. Somewhere i have an ACSP3 with date on just before by date of birth. Lovely silver thing with proper top cap. The cable is of course how everything audio and video was sent around the UK. None of this glass stuff! Mike -----Original Message----- From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2022 12:55 AM To: tech1 Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age I think you?re right about the kit coming from Stern Clyne. It would have been from their Edgeware road branch and the street number looks about right. Alan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Stannard test bits_s.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 204176 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Stannard bits 6s.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 128561 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 05:47:36 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 11:47:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> Message-ID: I bought a pair of Henrys audio power amplifier modules for my system.? The design unfortunately suffered from some kind of thermal runaway - got very hot and died. I took several back till maybe they did mods or I was lucky. I'd completely forgotten that till you said "Henrys". B On 06/07/2022 10:16, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote: > A lot of my early stuff came from Henrys Radio of course (also in > Edgeware Road) and I still have a catalogue somewhere in my pile of > old stuff. > Earlier I had sourced switches etc from a shop down the road near > school in Brentwood who stocked old military bits. > My first "Comms and radio" experience was in the CCF with 38sets and > telephone systems strung across the tents at annual camp > My first home-built tape recorder also was bits from I forget where in > Edgeware Road. > The attached is an example of how we used to make our own test > equipment (actually inherited by the head man in BH Lines dept) and > some spare valves if you want them. Somewhere i have an ACSP3 with > date on just before by date of birth. Lovely silver thing with proper > top cap. > The cable is of course how everything audio and video was sent around > the UK. None of this glass stuff! > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 > Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2022 12:55 AM > To: tech1 > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age > > I think you?re right about the kit coming from Stern Clyne. It would > have been from their Edgeware road branch and the street number looks > about right. > > Alan > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Wed Jul 6 05:48:07 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:48:07 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not really operations as such, but? Henry?s Radio was home territory to me too. You could just about get there and back between your bit of Blue Peter rehearsal and the end of line-up, in the nick of time for TX! That and Proops in Tottenham Court Road, of course. And a bit later, Electrovalue in Englefield Green. We had a fantastic little family-run radio shop in Guildford called Porters Radio, with a repairs and parts department opposite, run by a wonderful chap called Jim Green. My life wouldn?t have been the same without Jim?s inspirational knowledge and support. That?s where I got all my components from in those days, and needless to say, Useekia in Goldhawk Road for metalwork. Many mixers, etc., built thanks to Useekia! At boarding school I was relentlessly bullied for not having any interest in sports. The only reason I got out alive was by constructing the radio controls for other boys? model boats and aircraft. My staple diet being the XFG1 soft valve and coils hand wound on toilet roll cores, etc. And newly emerging on the scene was the Mullard GET106 germanium transistor. The only radio controlled boat I built myself was electrically powered, and won me brownie points by rescuing other boys? sail-powered boats stranded in the middle of Cheddar reservoir. [image0.jpeg] Do you ever look at those early beginnings alongside today?s technology such as, say, the 128GB micro SD card in this pic and wonder where it might be in another 65 years from now? With an 8 week old grand daughter new on the scene, I worry for her future a lot. I look at her and think: what will she see that I never will? Cheers, N. Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 On 6 Jul 2022, at 10:17, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote: ?A lot of my early stuff came from Henrys Radio of course (also in Edgeware Road) and I still have a catalogue somewhere in my pile of old stuff. Earlier I had sourced switches etc from a shop down the road near school in Brentwood who stocked old military bits. My first "Comms and radio" experience was in the CCF with 38sets and telephone systems strung across the tents at annual camp My first home-built tape recorder also was bits from I forget where in Edgeware Road. The attached is an example of how we used to make our own test equipment (actually inherited by the head man in BH Lines dept) and some spare valves if you want them. Somewhere i have an ACSP3 with date on just before by date of birth. Lovely silver thing with proper top cap. The cable is of course how everything audio and video was sent around the UK. None of this glass stuff! Mike -----Original Message----- From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2022 12:55 AM To: tech1 Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age I think you?re right about the kit coming from Stern Clyne. It would have been from their Edgeware road branch and the street number looks about right. Alan -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3947470 bytes Desc: image0.jpeg URL: From alanaudio at me.com Wed Jul 6 07:10:14 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 13:10:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6BE47627-52F0-4544-A8B1-59314414BE5A@me.com> I didn?t think anybody would be interested, but just in case they are, here is a link to the construction manual for the tape recorder kit. At the end is a price list for accessories, which makes for fascinating reading. http://www.zen22196.zen.co.uk/scans/Stern's%20Tape%20Amplifier%20Model%20HF-TR3%20(MkII).pdf In those days you really did build it yourself. No printed circuit boards printed with each component. The passive components were soldered onto tag boards and wired up to all the other components. Bearing in mind that I had only made projects using transistors up until then ( red spot, white spot or OC71 ), it was quite daunting for a fifteen year old to be making a valve project of that complexity and even more daunting when the cost was such that it would have been a disaster if it hadn?t worked. No pressure! Until I saw the manual, I had forgotten that the recording level indicator was a magic eye tube. I was already familiar with them because we had a Pye Fenman FM radio which used a different style of magic eye tube which displayed a fan shaped green area to indicate tuning. It would widen and narrow as you tuned around. I can?t remember the last time I saw one being used. I remember the thing which most impressed the interview board. In order to set up the bias oscillator, the manual recommended using a valve voltmeter. I didn?t have access to one, but built a simple transistorised device from a design in a magazine ( Wireless World, or Practical Wireless ). It was an adaptor for my multimeter, but it needed calibrating. I took it to school and during a lunch break was able to use the physic lab?s signal generator, multimeter and oscilloscope to calibrate it. It probably wasn?t accurate at other levels and frequencies, but the calibration was done at about the desired frequency and level, so it was probably pretty close. Nearly all of those electronics shops in Edgeware Road, Tottenham Court Road, Lisle Street and elsewhere have long since gone. The other thing which went was the various surplus shops, which were an Aladdin?s cave of bits and pieces, with some great bargains to be found. I'm still using bits and pieces I remember buying from Greenweld in Southampton and there are doubtless many things in my loft which came from similar places. Alan > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Jul 6 07:29:41 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 13:29:41 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58aa0e8a-d61c-e249-14d8-e04052201997@amps.net> Gosh! Time for reminiscences, obviously. Nick - your comment about your new granddaughter (you old romantic, you!) reminded me that I was born in the house of an elderly aunt, who when she was a child, only had gas lighting, no electricity, but lived long enough to see man landing on the moon - on TV! Such is inventive progress. Who would have thought of mobile phones, even, and ones small enough to be a wristwatch. It's inevitable that Tech-ops would be staffed by chaps interested in what has been talked about recently, although I'm slightly puzzled by the guys who reckoned that they were brought in to the wrong jobs. My own experience of the interview boards, after I had written cheekily, to ask, no demand a job, it was suggested that there were positions available in Sound Radio, would I be interested? Yep, because I had seen the internal notice boards at BH, and realised that one could possibly transfer within the BBC. I got sent to TV Tech-ops, which suited me perfectly. I never felt that it was a chore to go to work, more an extension to a hobby. (Although I was hauled into Sturley's office at Wood Norton and invited to 'pull my finger out' if I wanted to remain). This was due to my slacking off, as I had just come from regimented education and mentally rejected the return to a classroom environment. Like Nick, I was uninvolved with sport and much more interested in the RadSoc (Radio Society) which operated after supper, before bedtime (I was a dayboy, so missed out on the after school activities, but somehow managed to catch the last bus home). One guy owned a tape recorder, which sparked my fascination, and I'm still playing with them even now! My first machine was more or less given to me by my village radio shop, it only needed a new valve, which cost me 50/-, and can be seen at the bottom of the enclosed photo of my home cinema. The overgrown jackplug is a radio jack, so I could listen to Light programme comedies. Knowing that the BBC required A levels in Physics and Maths, I attended Ewell Technical College, now renamed NESCOT, but didn't do so well in the exams. However, I was running the Film Society, and I think the Principal gave me such a good testimonial, that the BBC accepted me, nevertheless. Best wishes to all On 06/07/2022 11:48, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > Not really operations as such, but? > Henry?s Radio was home territory to me too. You could just about get > there and back between your bit of Blue Peter rehearsal and the end of > line-up, in the nick of time for TX! That and Proops in Tottenham > Court Road, of course. And a bit later, Electrovalue in Englefield > Green. We had a fantastic little family-run radio shop in Guildford > called Porters Radio, with a repairs and parts department opposite, > run by a wonderful chap called Jim Green. My life wouldn?t have been > the same without Jim?s inspirational knowledge and support. That?s > where I got all my components from in those days, and needless to say, > Useekia in Goldhawk Road for metalwork. Many mixers, etc., built > thanks to Useekia! > At boarding school I was relentlessly bullied for not having any > interest in sports. The only reason I got out alive was by > constructing the radio controls for other boys? model boats and > aircraft. My staple diet being the XFG1 soft valve and coils hand > wound on toilet roll cores, etc. And newly emerging on the scene was > the Mullard GET106 germanium transistor. The only radio controlled > boat I built myself was electrically powered, and won me brownie > points by rescuing other boys? sail-powered boats stranded in the > middle of Cheddar reservoir. > > Do you ever look at those early beginnings alongside today?s > technology such as, say, the 128GB micro SD card in this pic and > wonder where it might be in another 65 years from now? > With an 8 week old grand daughter new on the scene, I worry for her > future a lot. I look at her and think: what will she see that I never > will? > Cheers, > N. > Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: HutCinemaProj1.bmp Type: image/bmp Size: 3038886 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: HutCinemaProj1.bmp Type: image/bmp Size: 3038886 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Wed Jul 6 07:39:26 2022 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 13:39:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <58aa0e8a-d61c-e249-14d8-e04052201997@amps.net> References: <58aa0e8a-d61c-e249-14d8-e04052201997@amps.net> Message-ID: We all started with stuff like that. This was a home made dimmer. Constructed from audio line equaliser components and tag strip whilst in BH. Nice 1.5K and 6.8k resistors (see I still can read the markings) The stereo decoder was a bit expensive but I did make one. Mike From: Pat Heigham via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2022 1:29 PM To: Nick Ware ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Gosh! Time for reminiscences, obviously. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Home made dimmer_s.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 83091 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Henrys Stereo tuner advert.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1895848 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Wed Jul 6 08:12:32 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 14:12:32 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> Message-ID: <6DCD15E18CBD454985D4E5DF0D8D9B0E@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Like you Mike I have memories of CCF gear. I spent some time in the school's Signals Platoon with your 38 sets which I liked and also with the 18 sets which I didn't like - can't remember why. Back in the Signals Hut I think it was a beefy 11 set we learned to operate. As commented elsewhere you can now pocket what used to require a fork-lift truck. Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Jordan via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2022 10:16 AM To: Alan Taylor ; tech1 Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age A lot of my early stuff came from Henrys Radio of course (also in Edgeware Road) and I still have a catalogue somewhere in my pile of old stuff. Earlier I had sourced switches etc from a shop down the road near school in Brentwood who stocked old military bits. My first "Comms and radio" experience was in the CCF with 38sets and telephone systems strung across the tents at annual camp My first home-built tape recorder also was bits from I forget where in Edgeware Road. The attached is an example of how we used to make our own test equipment (actually inherited by the head man in BH Lines dept) and some spare valves if you want them. Somewhere i have an ACSP3 with date on just before by date of birth. Lovely silver thing with proper top cap. The cable is of course how everything audio and video was sent around the UK. None of this glass stuff! Mike -----Original Message----- From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2022 12:55 AM To: tech1 Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age I think you?re right about the kit coming from Stern Clyne. It would have been from their Edgeware road branch and the street number looks about right. Alan -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Wed Jul 6 08:17:24 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 14:17:24 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wrong jobs In-Reply-To: <58aa0e8a-d61c-e249-14d8-e04052201997@amps.net> References: <58aa0e8a-d61c-e249-14d8-e04052201997@amps.net> Message-ID: <145a9755-d9f6-2041-5bb0-ec2d5724803c@chriswoolf.co.uk> Perhaps because I made the move from staff to freelance at a relatively early stage, I always enjoyed - and still do - the freedom to move between the operational and engineering streams. The "wrong job" didn't exist for me, and the requirement for engineers to grasp the demands and practicality of operations, and the need for operators to recognise that engineering is what makes our industry work, has always been a splendid duality. Neither branch can do without the other, but both have to run to keep pace with development. It is wonderful to hear of the first efforts of making tape-recorders and amplifiers - and yes, I remember Henry's and Proops, Brenell decks /et al. /But I also worry that nostalgia can become all-enveloping. I delight that we were all involved in a fascinating activity, which had a crucial place in history - but for all sorts of reasons it /is /history, and we need to remember that. The industry /does/ continue, even if not in form that we always admire, and it is wise to remember what the /real/ skills we have learnt are. They weren't really the ability to push a ped around the floor, or swing a Mole boom around - the real purpose was to produce a shot, a visual image, or to get atmospheric, clean sound. Those skills are still important - the fact that the camera is a mobile phone and the mic is a modular array doesn't change that. The park-bench is a comfy place to chat from, but it would be a pity of those of us of a certain age only ever looked backwards. Chris Woolf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Wed Jul 6 09:00:23 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 15:00:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wrong jobs In-Reply-To: <145a9755-d9f6-2041-5bb0-ec2d5724803c@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <145a9755-d9f6-2041-5bb0-ec2d5724803c@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <43AD5383-BD58-49D2-B18E-809EFA3C1873@me.com> I would quibble with one thing you said, > - the real purpose was to produce a shot, a visual image, or to get atmospheric, clean sound. Those skills are still important - the fact that the camera is a mobile phone and the mic is a modular array doesn't change that. > I have always maintained that our real purpose was to tell a story for the viewers, to communicate an idea. Obviously we all care about the finer aspects of our craft, but that must never get in the way of the programme. Clearly there is a balance to be struck. We needed to maintain and hopefully improve standards, but we couldn?t exist in ivory towers either. There are times when it appears to have swung too far the wrong way these days. There are clearly opportunities for exploiting consumer quality equipment for programme making and some of those shows have worked well. I would pick out Mary Beard doing her lockdown arts review programmes from her home, Mark Kermode & Simon Mayo working from their respective homes and some of the programmes of people walking in the wilds carrying a camera on an invisible stick. Those programmes did something quite unlike what went before and were interesting anyway. However that doesn?t mean that the technical bar needs to be lowered to that level for other programmes. Television has always changed rapidly. It had changed out of all recognition before any of us started in the business, it drastically changed during our working lives and continues to evolve. Things which we struggled to achieve with our technology can now be done by clicking a mouse. Things we never imagined possible are now done routinely. We were mostly operational staff. Inventors and engineers leave a legacy of hardware for future generations. You can examine a windmill or a steam engine and get a pretty clear idea of how it was made. Operational staff leave a different legacy. It?s hard to take apart a video recording and deduce how it was made if you don?t already know most of the answers. Some of us tried to make our contribution natural and unnoticed. One of the important things that this group can achieve is to put on record how our jobs used to be done, because modern programme making is for the most part done very differently these days. Not necessarily better and not necessarily worse, but certainly different. Alan From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Wed Jul 6 09:35:07 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 15:35:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wrong jobs In-Reply-To: <43AD5383-BD58-49D2-B18E-809EFA3C1873@me.com> References: <145a9755-d9f6-2041-5bb0-ec2d5724803c@chriswoolf.co.uk> <43AD5383-BD58-49D2-B18E-809EFA3C1873@me.com> Message-ID: <2db59d6b-d97a-8f38-2eb5-bbb0b8bbd94e@chriswoolf.co.uk> On 06/07/2022 15:00, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > I would quibble with one thing you said, > I have always maintained that our real purpose was to tell a story for > the viewers, to communicate an idea. .. We're not far apart on any of this. I'd argue that the story part is the director's effort, necessarily combined with the crew working as a team - so I was simply talking about the individual efforts that go to make up the whole. But it is a marginal distinction that I wouldn't want to push. You are quite right that craft skills can only be detected by someone who has studied that craft closely. That certainly applies to TV and film operations, but equally to blacksmiths, stone masons, carpenters and every other such skill. They should be valued very highly because a proper understanding of our national history and culture is based absolutely on such understated skills. Perhaps the saddest part about British culture is the artificial status ladder that our society imposes on such activities. Craft skills are most often "dirty hands" ones, and the Brits regard such jobs as menial, and impossible that they can be carried out by people of education and taste. It is a remnant of our damaging class-structure, and a terrible restraint on our development. While the lauded architect draws beautiful ideas, with trees in front to disguise the bits that don't quite work, the structural engineer and the fabricator who have the task of making the bloody thing stand up are rarely recognised. I find it wonderful that top-class academic engineers (that I know) in Germany think nothing of being peasant-style farmers in their spare time - and nobody sees any contradiction. Chris Woolf From relong at btinternet.com Wed Jul 6 12:29:46 2022 From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 18:29:46 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My first board was in 65 which I passed , but they had no vacancy, they said they would in 66 My mate and I worked in the local Ribena factory, at London Rubber cleaning out the French chalk on the Marigold line and also the Durex stress tester rig . We also did a road survey for the MOT for the Severn Bridge crossing flow on the A48. We went to Nequay in his A35 van , and camped and tried to surf, the locals laughed at our ex WD camo kit. One night after cider at the pub by the old dock slipway we were awoken by a PC on his bike and he told me to ring home. My dad was a chief inspector, the Beeb had rung him and wanted me on site Sept 1 1965. I was most impressed they found me so quickly and returned post haste The World Cup in 66 needed TOs for Comms and Communication, we were rushed into operation. I hated footy, we were based in the Langham, a TV feed and a C &C desk with a continuous supply of South American commentators and their mates (mostly pissed) passing through There was little command and control, they all shouted as soon as the Red light came on. Roger From dave at davesound.co.uk Wed Jul 6 13:04:42 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 19:04:42 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wrong jobs In-Reply-To: <2db59d6b-d97a-8f38-2eb5-bbb0b8bbd94e@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <145a9755-d9f6-2041-5bb0-ec2d5724803c@chriswoolf.co.uk> <43AD5383-BD58-49D2-B18E-809EFA3C1873@me.com> <2db59d6b-d97a-8f38-2eb5-bbb0b8bbd94e@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <6f437f24-b4dc-c359-e93a-2dd87043f7fa@davesound.co.uk> If you look at the sort of social meja youngsters use, it is full of those complaining about poorly paid dead end jobs. Yet few even consider the trades. And a decent plumber or electrician etc can make very good money - as well as having a varied job. Which they could take pride in. On 06/07/2022 15:35, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > On 06/07/2022 15:00, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> I would quibble with one thing you said, >> I have always maintained that our real purpose was to tell a story >> for the viewers, to communicate an idea. .. > > > We're not far apart on any of this. I'd argue that the story part is > the director's effort, necessarily combined with the crew working as a > team - so I was simply talking about the individual efforts that go to > make up the whole. But it is a marginal distinction that I wouldn't > want to push. > > You are quite right that craft skills can only be detected by someone > who has studied that craft closely. That certainly applies to TV and > film operations, but equally to blacksmiths, stone masons, carpenters > and every other such skill. They should be valued very highly because > a proper understanding of our national history and culture is based > absolutely on such understated skills. > > Perhaps the saddest part about British culture is the artificial > status ladder that our society imposes on such activities. Craft > skills are most often "dirty hands" ones, and the Brits regard such > jobs as menial, and impossible that they can be carried out by people > of education and taste. It is a remnant of our damaging > class-structure, and a terrible restraint on our development. While > the lauded architect draws beautiful ideas, with trees in front to > disguise the bits that don't quite work, the structural engineer and > the fabricator who have the task of making the bloody thing stand up > are rarely recognised. > > I find it wonderful that top-class academic engineers (that I know) in > Germany think nothing of being peasant-style farmers in their spare > time - and nobody sees any contradiction. > > > Chris Woolf > > > -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN From geoffletch at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 13:13:23 2022 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 19:13:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <2b37fa02-0512-ddaf-0142-377cabe9c0eb@talktalk.net> References: <6B3C5C1CE0A9458BA12EDDE3ADF1AB50@NewOffice> <9B7471B82EC94CACACB2338DC8CA60AF@Gigabyte> <2b37fa02-0512-ddaf-0142-377cabe9c0eb@talktalk.net> Message-ID: <236C04B1-BCB4-4B96-B8E6-95F2E6C4BE3E@gmail.com> Me too Doug! Geoff F > On 4 Jul 2022, at 20:59, David Beer via Tech1 wrote: > > Yes, it still comes in useful for larger cables, but I refer you to my post some years ago which explains the Roadie Wrap for smaller cables. Take a look at https://youtu.be/kda4DPAn3C4 which explains the technique. > > Just remember, 'Overworked and Underpaid!' > > Dave > > On 04/07/2022 18:47, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote: >> A few years ago I was helping our local school with their drama show ? including sound and abit of lighting. >> At derig, one of the boys was trying to sort out a 200ft or so length of mic cable wrapping it over his arm like mum with washing line. >> I just laid it out across the hall and did a simple coil (not actually figure 8), twisting as I went and he was absolutely amazed. He then tried and was successful ? made his day. >> Just comes naturally doesn't it. Much easier with a hose or even a multi compared with G101 or similar! >> >> Mike >> >> From: Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 >> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2022 6:21 PM >> To: Tech1 >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age >> >> >> >> Nearly fifty years and I?m still doing it >> >> Doug >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0924 copy.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 180198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davidvbrunt at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 13:48:23 2022 From: davidvbrunt at gmail.com (David Brunt) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 19:48:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] 1964 'Beyond the Fringe' Message-ID: Not sure if anyone here worked on it and I realise it's a very long shot, but does anyone have the recording date for the 'Beyond the Fringe' programme broadcast on Decmember 12 1964. Trying to work out if it was the previous August, for a thing... From waresound at msn.com Wed Jul 6 13:56:30 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 18:56:30 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <236C04B1-BCB4-4B96-B8E6-95F2E6C4BE3E@gmail.com> References: <6B3C5C1CE0A9458BA12EDDE3ADF1AB50@NewOffice> <9B7471B82EC94CACACB2338DC8CA60AF@Gigabyte> <2b37fa02-0512-ddaf-0142-377cabe9c0eb@talktalk.net> <236C04B1-BCB4-4B96-B8E6-95F2E6C4BE3E@gmail.com> Message-ID: One of life?s mysteries has always been why camera folk coil figure-eight, whereas sound dept invariably opt for over-and-under in a neat coil, or better still, cable drums. Viz: [image0.jpeg] This one even reels in automatically for you, though admittedly not always when you want it to (as in when you put it down to pull out a weed, and while you?re not looking it returns to base!) Strictly speaking this isn?t pre-digital age, ?cos if you get your digits caught in it the expletives peak to 0dBfs. Cheers, N. P.S. apologies for filthy slabs - having major roof repairs at the moment. Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 On 6 Jul 2022, at 19:14, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 wrote: ? [IMG_0924 copy.jpeg] Me too Doug! Geoff F On 4 Jul 2022, at 20:59, David Beer via Tech1 > wrote: Yes, it still comes in useful for larger cables, but I refer you to my post some years ago which explains the Roadie Wrap for smaller cables. Take a look at https://youtu.be/kda4DPAn3C4 which explains the technique. Just remember, 'Overworked and Underpaid!' Dave On 04/07/2022 18:47, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote: A few years ago I was helping our local school with their drama show ? including sound and abit of lighting. At derig, one of the boys was trying to sort out a 200ft or so length of mic cable wrapping it over his arm like mum with washing line. I just laid it out across the hall and did a simple coil (not actually figure 8), twisting as I went and he was absolutely amazed. He then tried and was successful ? made his day. Just comes naturally doesn't it. Much easier with a hose or even a multi compared with G101 or similar! Mike From: Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 Sent: Monday, July 04, 2022 6:21 PM To: Tech1 Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Nearly fifty years and I?m still doing it Doug ________________________________ -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0924 copy.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 180198 bytes Desc: IMG_0924 copy.jpeg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image0.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7099009 bytes Desc: image0.jpeg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0924 copy.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 180198 bytes Desc: IMG_0924 copy.jpeg URL: From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 15:08:18 2022 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 21:08:18 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Message-ID: <013c01d89174$226ef300$674cd900$@gmail.com> I wanted a tape recorder in the late fifties when I was still at school. I favoured a Grundig because the minister of our church had one which he used to record the services to take round to the shut-ins and he brought it to our house one time when my Dad was ill and it looked impressive. I?d originally thought of a Grundig Cub as I couldn?t afford one like he had and I?d seen adverts for the Cub and thought it looked good but was glad I didn?t as I was told it didn?t have constant speed drive (have I remembered that right?). Instead I got one from a shop in Richmond using my paper round money. It was badged with the label ?Sound?, which I?d never heard of and it had a Collaro Studio deck, like Alan had, though I?d never have attempted to build one like he did as that was beyond my capabilities or interest. I still have the machine today, see picture, though I haven?t attempted to run it for decades and am not sure it still works. In the newsagents shop I?d seen the monthly magazine ?Tape Recorder? aimed at the growing hobbyist/enthusiast market and I bought and each month read it avidly. In it was an ad for a book called ?How to get the best out of your tape recorder? by one Percy Guy, ??a lecturer at the BBC?s ETD, Wood Norton? which I read from cover to cover. That was while I was still at school and well before I had any inkling of what I wanted for a career. Having later seen the advert for Technical Operators at the BBC and being persuaded by my Dad to apply, come the day for my recruitment interview in June 1963 for at Langham House, on the board was one John Eadon-Eden who quizzed me on the machine to probe me about how much I knew. He asked what deck it had and when I told him it was a Collaro Studio deck he seemed to know it, which surprised me. He asked how many motors it had, what they did and what type they were which I got mostly right except I?d forgotten that the one driving the capstan was a synchronous motor, not an induction one like the others. He asked how many heads it had and which came first, which I knew and I was able to tell him about the mu-metal head covers and the azimuth adjustment which I?d tried tweaking in accordance with what the book had said to try and eliminate cross-talk between the tracks. I?d also done a bit of classic cut and join tape editing which I could describe. There were questions about mics and sensitivity patterns, omni, cardioid, figure of eight which he seemed pleased that I knew something about and though I was probably a bit slow at solving the quadratic equation they gave me which I guess was at least partly to see how I?d respond under pressure, or in quoting Ohmns Law (remember all that?) I think that and the answers I gave about photography and basic Portrait Lighting was what got me the job. I wished later that I?d mentioned the book and said glowingly how I?d like to meet the author but didn?t think of it at the time. When on my TO Course I did meet him and realised what an overbearing, somewhat stern character he was, I didn?t have the nerve to say anything more than yes sir, no sir, and certainly not to ask for his autograph on the book. My placement after Evesham was on Sound and from what I was told it seemed clear that they had earmarked me for a job in Sound, which while I ?enjoyed? a bit of boom-oping on shows like Compact, photography was my main interest and I had in mind being on Cameras. I still shudder when I remember playing in the wrong track on the recording of a boring factual show in TC5, instead of the closing music as I hadn?t cued it up correctly. Do tell me that I?m not the only one to do something like that ? Geoff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tape recorder with Collaro Studio deck.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 618751 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mibridge at mac.com Wed Jul 6 17:10:34 2022 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 23:10:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <013c01d89174$226ef300$674cd900$@gmail.com> References: <013c01d89174$226ef300$674cd900$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <07677C35-B17D-4B6E-9FCF-3BEFF16FC3D9@mac.com> Geoff?s photo reminds me that I had one of those decks, supplied in a kit of parts which was simply complete entities to join together and fit into the plywood box which they supplied, no technical knowledge required. Before that, I had been given a ?tape deck? which sat on a record player turntable to get its motive power ~ I can remember no detail except that the tape speed varied according to the fullness of the spools. My uncle had first introduced me to the magic of recording at the tender age of six or seven ~ he had what must have been a very expensive "Sound Mirror", which had a beautiful rosewood cabinet and a very large speaker for the time. It had a permanent magnet erase head and I recall that the most fascinating thing for me at that age was the magic eye record level indicator ~ whereas all the oldies were amazed at hearing themselves back, I rather took that for granted ~ much like my grandchildren who have lived with mobile phones for their whole lives ~ the technology still amazes me, but they simply expect it. Your recruitment interview sounds very stiff compared with mine, Geoff ~ whilst I certainly talked about having joined a tape deck, a pre-built amplifier and a loudspeaker together in a box, I think more time was spent talking about the fact that I had built a canoe! I don?t remember any maths or physics coming into it. That there was not even the need to have actually passed A level exams ~ merely to have studied maths or physics to A level standard. But I also recall that at Evesham I incurred one lecturer's pseudo wrath by getting 100% in one of his tests ~ he declared that it was not what was expected of new recruits! But I think I made up for that with plenty of mistakes throughout the rest of my career ~ you were definitely not the only one Geoff!. Mike G > On 6 Jul 2022, at 21:08, geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 wrote: > > I wanted a tape recorder in the late fifties when I was still at school. I favoured a Grundig because the minister of our church had one which he used to record the services to take round to the shut-ins and he brought it to our house one time when my Dad was ill and it looked impressive. I?d originally thought of a Grundig Cub as I couldn?t afford one like he had and I?d seen adverts for the Cub and thought it looked good but was glad I didn?t as I was told it didn?t have constant speed drive (have I remembered that right?). Instead I got one from a shop in Richmond using my paper round money. It was badged with the label ?Sound?, which I?d never heard of and it had a Collaro Studio deck, like Alan had, though I?d never have attempted to build one like he did as that was beyond my capabilities or interest. I still have the machine today, see picture, though I haven?t attempted to run it for decades and am not sure it still works. > > In the newsagents shop I?d seen the monthly magazine ?Tape Recorder? aimed at the growing hobbyist/enthusiast market and I bought and each month read it avidly. In it was an ad for a book called ?How to get the best out of your tape recorder? by one Percy Guy, ??a lecturer at the BBC?s ETD, Wood Norton? which I read from cover to cover. That was while I was still at school and well before I had any inkling of what I wanted for a career. > Having later seen the advert for Technical Operators at the BBC and being persuaded by my Dad to apply, come the day for my recruitment interview in June 1963 for at Langham House, on the board was one John Eadon-Eden who quizzed me on the machine to probe me about how much I knew. He asked what deck it had and when I told him it was a Collaro Studio deck he seemed to know it, which surprised me. He asked how many motors it had, what they did and what type they were which I got mostly right except I?d forgotten that the one driving the capstan was a synchronous motor, not an induction one like the others. He asked how many heads it had and which came first, which I knew and I was able to tell him about the mu-metal head covers and the azimuth adjustment which I?d tried tweaking in accordance with what the book had said to try and eliminate cross-talk between the tracks. I?d also done a bit of classic cut and join tape editing which I could describe. There were questions about mics and sensitivity patterns, omni, cardioid, figure of eight which he seemed pleased that I knew something about and though I was probably a bit slow at solving the quadratic equation they gave me which I guess was at least partly to see how I?d respond under pressure, or in quoting Ohmns Law (remember all that?) I think that and the answers I gave about photography and basic Portrait Lighting was what got me the job. I wished later that I?d mentioned the book and said glowingly how I?d like to meet the author but didn?t think of it at the time. When on my TO Course I did meet him and realised what an overbearing, somewhat stern character he was, I didn?t have the nerve to say anything more than yes sir, no sir, and certainly not to ask for his autograph on the book. > > My placement after Evesham was on Sound and from what I was told it seemed clear that they had earmarked me for a job in Sound, which while I ?enjoyed? a bit of boom-oping on shows like Compact, photography was my main interest and I had in mind being on Cameras. I still shudder when I remember playing in the wrong track on the recording of a boring factual show in TC5, instead of the closing music as I hadn?t cued it up correctly. Do tell me that I?m not the only one to do something like that ? > > Geoff > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk Thu Jul 7 02:19:26 2022 From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 08:19:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <07677C35-B17D-4B6E-9FCF-3BEFF16FC3D9@mac.com> References: <07677C35-B17D-4B6E-9FCF-3BEFF16FC3D9@mac.com> Message-ID: You are right about the Grundig Cub Geoff, it was driven from the take up spool so could only be played back on the same machine. I did manage to rescue some of my uncles family tapes by playing them back on a Revox and tweaking the speed control throughout to keep the voices sounding more or less as I remembered them. Clearly not precision stuff but good enough. Peter Fox On 6 Jul 2022, at 23:11, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: ?Geoff?s photo reminds me that I had one of those decks, supplied in a kit of parts which was simply complete entities to join together and fit into the plywood box which they supplied, no technical knowledge required. Before that, I had been given a ?tape deck? which sat on a record player turntable to get its motive power ~ I can remember no detail except that the tape speed varied according to the fullness of the spools. My uncle had first introduced me to the magic of recording at the tender age of six or seven ~ he had what must have been a very expensive "Sound Mirror", which had a beautiful rosewood cabinet and a very large speaker for the time. It had a permanent magnet erase head and I recall that the most fascinating thing for me at that age was the magic eye record level indicator ~ whereas all the oldies were amazed at hearing themselves back, I rather took that for granted ~ much like my grandchildren who have lived with mobile phones for their whole lives ~ the technology still amazes me, but they simply expect it. Your recruitment interview sounds very stiff compared with mine, Geoff ~ whilst I certainly talked about having joined a tape deck, a pre-built amplifier and a loudspeaker together in a box, I think more time was spent talking about the fact that I had built a canoe! I don?t remember any maths or physics coming into it. That there was not even the need to have actually passed A level exams ~ merely to have studied maths or physics to A level standard. But I also recall that at Evesham I incurred one lecturer's pseudo wrath by getting 100% in one of his tests ~ he declared that it was not what was expected of new recruits! But I think I made up for that with plenty of mistakes throughout the rest of my career ~ you were definitely not the only one Geoff!. Mike G > On 6 Jul 2022, at 21:08, geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 wrote: > > I wanted a tape recorder in the late fifties when I was still at school. I favoured a Grundig because the minister of our church had one which he used to record the services to take round to the shut-ins and he brought it to our house one time when my Dad was ill and it looked impressive. I?d originally thought of a Grundig Cub as I couldn?t afford one like he had and I?d seen adverts for the Cub and thought it looked good but was glad I didn?t as I was told it didn?t have constant speed drive (have I remembered that right?). Instead I got one from a shop in Richmond using my paper round money. It was badged with the label ?Sound?, which I?d never heard of and it had a Collaro Studio deck, like Alan had, though I?d never have attempted to build one like he did as that was beyond my capabilities or interest. I still have the machine today, see picture, though I haven?t attempted to run it for decades and am not sure it still works. > > In the newsagents shop I?d seen the monthly magazine ?Tape Recorder? aimed at the growing hobbyist/enthusiast market and I bought and each month read it avidly. In it was an ad for a book called ?How to get the best out of your tape recorder? by one Percy Guy, ??a lecturer at the BBC?s ETD, Wood Norton? which I read from cover to cover. That was while I was still at school and well before I had any inkling of what I wanted for a career. > Having later seen the advert for Technical Operators at the BBC and being persuaded by my Dad to apply, come the day for my recruitment interview in June 1963 for at Langham House, on the board was one John Eadon-Eden who quizzed me on the machine to probe me about how much I knew. He asked what deck it had and when I told him it was a Collaro Studio deck he seemed to know it, which surprised me. He asked how many motors it had, what they did and what type they were which I got mostly right except I?d forgotten that the one driving the capstan was a synchronous motor, not an induction one like the others. He asked how many heads it had and which came first, which I knew and I was able to tell him about the mu-metal head covers and the azimuth adjustment which I?d tried tweaking in accordance with what the book had said to try and eliminate cross-talk between the tracks. I?d also done a bit of classic cut and join tape editing which I could describe. There were questions about mics and sensitivity patterns, omni, cardioid, figure of eight which he seemed pleased that I knew something about and though I was probably a bit slow at solving the quadratic equation they gave me which I guess was at least partly to see how I?d respond under pressure, or in quoting Ohmns Law (remember all that?) I think that and the answers I gave about photography and basic Portrait Lighting was what got me the job. I wished later that I?d mentioned the book and said glowingly how I?d like to meet the author but didn?t think of it at the time. When on my TO Course I did meet him and realised what an overbearing, somewhat stern character he was, I didn?t have the nerve to say anything more than yes sir, no sir, and certainly not to ask for his autograph on the book. > > My placement after Evesham was on Sound and from what I was told it seemed clear that they had earmarked me for a job in Sound, which while I ?enjoyed? a bit of boom-oping on shows like Compact, photography was my main interest and I had in mind being on Cameras. I still shudder when I remember playing in the wrong track on the recording of a boring factual show in TC5, instead of the closing music as I hadn?t cued it up correctly. Do tell me that I?m not the only one to do something like that ? > > Geoff > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 03:16:12 2022 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 09:16:12 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] TV Underground Map Message-ID: <1d2fab5d-ffa0-9732-2c76-924ca63f8719@gmail.com> Hi, For all of you who worked on Doctor Who, The Bill, EastEnders - oh, and some Bond Films! - here are your Underground Stations. tube map -- ======= Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Mob: 07789 561 346 Tel: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fake_tube_map_copy.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 5429997 bytes Desc: not available URL: From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Thu Jul 7 03:33:20 2022 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 09:33:20 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Photo In-Reply-To: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: .......and here you are Dave, building a Stern-Clyne Type C tape amp with Chris Wilden. This was in 1963 in Hut 17 at Wood Norton during TO15. Hibou, {John Howell). On 05/07/2022 23:10, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > Might your valve electronics kits have come from Sterns (Stern Clyne)? > They did kits for all the Mullard designs, several of which I > purchased and made up. I looked to see if I still had the assembly > manual for the Type C tape amp but could only find those for the 3-3 > series amps and the pre-amp. Happy days! I also still have the thick > full catalogues from Home Radio of Mitcham from the 1960's who were > another brilliant source of components. > > Dave Newbitt. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Building a Mullard Kit.png Type: image/png Size: 652583 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Thu Jul 7 03:50:01 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 09:50:01 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Photo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63D55E9A-2D9C-4694-9F3E-0FF77386C9BB@me.com> Wow that picture brings back some memories. Those kits needed quite a bit of work done on them, it wasn?t just a matter of putting things together. I remember making sketches and lists to make sure that everything went into the right place at the right time. I?ve pretty well done much the same thing ever since to keep projects organised. I previously mentioned that the tape recorder kit was my first ever valve project, having only used transistors previously. Seeing the old soldering iron in that picture reminded me that assembling the kit was the first time I invested in a reel of that new-fangled self fluxing multi core solder. Prior to that I used plain solder and a separate pot of flux. The last time I ever saw separate flux being used, other than for things like plumbing jobs, was in Moscow during the 1980 Olympics. The Russians still used plain solder and had soldering iron stands with a built in little pot of flux. When they saw us soldering without apparently using flux, they thought it was hilarious and that our equipment would surely fail when soldered together in such an amateurish manner. Alan > On 7 Jul 2022, at 09:34, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > > ?.......and here you are Dave, building a Stern-Clyne Type C tape amp with Chris Wilden. This was in 1963 in Hut 17 at Wood Norton during TO15. > > Hibou, > > {John Howell). > > >> On 05/07/2022 23:10, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >> Might your valve electronics kits have come from Sterns (Stern Clyne)? They did kits for all the Mullard designs, several of which I purchased and made up. I looked to see if I still had the assembly manual for the Type C tape amp but could only find those for the 3-3 series amps and the pre-amp. Happy days! I also still have the thick full catalogues from Home Radio of Mitcham from the 1960's who were another brilliant source of components. >> >> Dave Newbitt. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Building a Mullard Kit.png Type: image/png Size: 652583 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Thu Jul 7 04:05:19 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 10:05:19 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Photo In-Reply-To: References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <86D9640428BE45CDA0EA13BA84B4FD56@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Goodness John - what a surprise!. Thank you so much for digging it out, I honestly don't believe I've ever seen it before. Being by nature an 'in and out of the shadows person' there are precious few records of me from that era. Hilary was tickled pink! I envy your filing system Hibou - I dig out old things for the forum sometimes but usually on the end of a lengthy search whereas you've pulled this up pretty smartly. Best wishes, Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: John Howell via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 9:33 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Photo .......and here you are Dave, building a Stern-Clyne Type C tape amp with Chris Wilden. This was in 1963 in Hut 17 at Wood Norton during TO15. Hibou, {John Howell). On 05/07/2022 23:10, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > Might your valve electronics kits have come from Sterns (Stern Clyne)? > They did kits for all the Mullard designs, several of which I > purchased and made up. I looked to see if I still had the assembly > manual for the Type C tape amp but could only find those for the 3-3 > series amps and the pre-amp. Happy days! I also still have the thick > full catalogues from Home Radio of Mitcham from the 1960's who were > another brilliant source of components. > > Dave Newbitt. > -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jul 7 05:28:07 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 11:28:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <07677C35-B17D-4B6E-9FCF-3BEFF16FC3D9@mac.com> References: <013c01d89174$226ef300$674cd900$@gmail.com> <07677C35-B17D-4B6E-9FCF-3BEFF16FC3D9@mac.com> Message-ID: I think that was the GramDeck, Mike. (pic attached) Now for a history of tape recorders owned: Apart from the unknown make, mentioned in an earlier posting, I dearly hoped that my parents would buy me a tape recorder - each birthday I hoped, and hoped, but eventually I had saved up enough for a Philips. This was 4-track, which saved on tape stock, but any recordings still held in library are unplayable without a four-track head. (Mike McCarthy managed to rescue some recordings of a friend's wedding, made some 50 years ago!). Then I acquired a TruVox deck, whic produced extremely good recordings, but again 4-track. I sold it to lovely Bryan Forgham, a very pleasant Sound Supervisor that I often worked with. I was amused, as in the Bond film "You Only Live Twice" there are twin Truvox decks, built into Tanaka's private train. As it's supposed to be in Japan, I would have thought it better to incorporate a Japanese product. In fact, talking to the set designer later, it became the norm to 'product place' Sony equipment, and I took advantage of the discount offered to the Bond productions! Then, some naughtiness on my part...As a Gram Op, editing music tapes or prepping for a production, in the 60's there was a shortage of facilities to do these tasks, frequently I went to BH or even Bush to use a control room. So I bought a Revox 736 (G36) as it would handle 10 1/2" NAB spools, to edit at home. This was dodgy, as the master tapes were very valuable, but we were usually tasked with bringing, in our cars, tapes resulting from music sessions from all over. (there was a thought that we should not travel with them on the Tube, sitting over the motor, for fear of accidentally wiping the tapes, but I never knew whether this was ever put to the test!). The problem was that the domestic model of the Revox, was initially 7 1/2 and 3 3/4 ips. Through the dealer that I went to, I got the factory to modify the machine to run at 15 and 7 1/2 ips. So the jobs got done. The Sound Office at TVC had a couple of recorders which could conceivably be used to gather FX. One was a Fi-Cord, which I was allowed to take down to the IoW to record the sounds of the chain ferry across the Medina river from East to West Cowes. BBC production? No! this was for an 8mm film I had made! There was a Nagra, which Nick Ware was not allowed to borrow, _although he had one of his own_! Going freelance, I gravitated to owning Nagras, a IV-S and later the I-S. It was a couple of delightful trips to go and fetch them from the factory in Switzerland! Their chief sales guy, Ray Trost, was pleased to meet up with actual users of the products and was very keen to have the machines properly set up for the tape stock in use. I sold the I-S to a chap who liked to make 16mm movies, as a hobby, at a ridiculously low price, but still have the IV-S with the NAB adaptor. That latter piece of kit has a history. A sound crew, working in France, I think, were involved in a fatal road accident in which the Boom Op, Gary Weir? lost his life. The equipment banged around inside the truck - the adaptor suffered considerable damage, which David Lane - a super Nagra service engineer, managed to put right. Sadly David himself passed away, having been Richmond Films' in-house engineer for some years. ?Sorry to end on a sad note Pat On 06/07/2022 23:10, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > Before that, I had been given a ?tape deck? which sat on a record > player turntable to get its motive power ~ I can remember no detail > except that the tape speed varied according to the fullness of the > spools. ?My uncle had first introduced me to the magic of recording at > the tender age of six or seven > Your recruitment interview sounds very stiff compared with mine, Geoff > ?~ whilst I certainly talked about having joined a tape deck, a > pre-built amplifier and a loudspeaker together in a box, I think more > time was spent talking about the fact that I had built a canoe! I > don?t remember any maths or physics coming into it. That there was not > even the need to have actually passed A level exams ~ merely to have > studied maths or physics to A level standard. > > Mike G > > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Gramdeck.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 52619 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 05:31:46 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 11:31:46 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] MCR21 Message-ID: <156f3409-d9d9-1b53-5f51-82d657a0b8bb@gmail.com> I thought I'd pop down to Amberley Museum this coming week, maybe Thursday 14th, and have a look - http://mcr21.org.uk/events/? - sandwich in the cafe etc. B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: C5JnnUODxrL4ndY6.png Type: image/png Size: 860990 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Thu Jul 7 05:38:54 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 11:38:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: <013c01d89174$226ef300$674cd900$@gmail.com> <07677C35-B17D-4B6E-9FCF-3BEFF16FC3D9@mac.com> Message-ID: On 07/07/2022 11:28, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > (there was a thought that we should not travel with them on the Tube, > sitting over the motor, for fear of accidentally wiping the tapes, but > I never knew whether this was ever put to the test!). At one point we spent a lot of time at an edit house in Islington, and had to take piles of 2" and 1" tapes there and back by taxi.? What seemed glamorous at first got tedious very quickly in the traffic jams of Euston Road, so one week i took some Betas by Tube. Shock horror! Nothing!?? Tapes played without a hitch. Maybe by the late eighties the tube had got its electro magnetism under control. B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Thu Jul 7 13:28:29 2022 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 19:28:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <25b8e524d298402cac26929f04956f21.squirrel@sundive.email> References: <013c01d89174$226ef300$674cd900$@gmail.com> <07677C35-B17D-4B6E-9FCF-3BEFF16FC3D9@mac.com> <25b8e524d298402cac26929f04956f21.squirrel@sundive.email> Message-ID: <97329B07-0C09-463D-BF21-B7232DADCB04@mac.com> That makes two of you, Pat and George, who have named the same device ~ the Gram Deck ~ and I certainly remember that it was a bit like the photo. But mine definitely didn?t maintain a constant speed ~ it required that replay was from a spool with the same tape content, in order to play at the right speed. I didn?t experiment with it for long, so perhaps I missed a trick. Mike G > On 7 Jul 2022, at 18:10, george at sundive.org wrote: > > > Hello Mike, I don't normally join in since I seem a bit of a fraud amongst > the engineers. However I could not resist this one from you. The tape deck > which sat on a gramophone could have been a Gram Deck. > > https://historictech.com/gramdeck-early-tape-recorder/ > > I had one that ran well at 7 1/2 ips with the record deck at 78 rpm. It > was not great for music but excellent for speech. If you put one on a > wind up gramophone you got a portable tape recorder, since the recording > amplifier was battery driven. When I was about 15 I made my first on > location sound movie with such a set up and a clockwork 16mm Bolex. We > could get about 25 seconds of reasonable constant speed on the camera per > wind. We had to break the dialogue down into short chunks, which was > probably no bad thing. I always processed my own Black and White film so > the whole thing was relatively cheap, if a bit complicated. However we > loved it. > > All the Best....George > > George Auckland > > > Geoff?s photo reminds me that I had one of those decks, supplied in a kit >> of parts which was simply complete entities to join together and fit into >> the plywood box which they supplied, no technical knowledge required. >> >> Before that, I had been given a ?tape deck? which sat on a record player >> turntable to get its motive power ~ I can remember no detail except that >> the tape speed varied according to the fullness of the spools. My uncle >> had first introduced me to the magic of recording at the tender age of six >> or seven ~ he had what must have been a very expensive "Sound Mirror", >> which had a beautiful rosewood cabinet and a very large speaker for the >> time. It had a permanent magnet erase head and I recall that the most >> fascinating thing for me at that age was the magic eye record level >> indicator ~ whereas all the oldies were amazed at hearing themselves back, >> I rather took that for granted ~ much like my grandchildren who have lived >> with mobile phones for their whole lives ~ the technology still amazes me, >> but they simply expect it. >> >> Your recruitment interview sounds very stiff compared with mine, Geoff ~ >> whilst I certainly talked about having joined a tape deck, a pre-built >> amplifier and a loudspeaker together in a box, I think more time was spent >> talking about the fact that I had built a canoe! I don?t remember any >> maths or physics coming into it. That there was not even the need to have >> actually passed A level exams ~ merely to have studied maths or physics to >> A level standard. >> >> But I also recall that at Evesham I incurred one lecturer's pseudo wrath >> by getting 100% in one of his tests ~ he declared that it was not what >> was expected of new recruits! But I think I made up for that with plenty >> of mistakes throughout the rest of my career ~ you were definitely not the >> only one Geoff!. >> >> Mike G >> >> > From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Thu Jul 7 16:08:25 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 22:08:25 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> <2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: Moi aussi! I built two Mullard 5-10s using the HQ valves from TVC test room bins! ECC83 became 6057 0and the ECC81 was 6060 and so on).I spent ages using the huge Avo valve tester to sort out the good from the not-so. I think I bought the kits up the Edgware Road from one of the Smith's shops. Once I knew about the existence of tape recorders in the late 50's I visited a local shop called Nottingham Tape Recorders and fell in love with a Tandberg which had three heads but I couldn't afford it so, I ended up with a Philips EL3538 3-speed valve machine which lasted me for many years. After Evesham, I used to take it into work to 'squeak' it and adjust the azimuth, as you do! When I joined OBs in '81 we often went to Nottingham for football etc. and visited Anchor Surplus, an ex-WD Aladdin's cave of military stuff from rockets to cutlery! Once they had several Tandberg 15's, 7" three-speed half track machines for ?15! (used dor language training). These machines were used in Production offices at TVC so I was able to get a copy of the Service Manual from Sound Test! I still have the machine! Later on, my cameraperson on the Sports Unit, who helped out at his local church, got hold of the church's Tandberg 3300X stereo cross-field head, 4-track, machine for me. It needed servicing and there was a private Tandberg service place in Doncaster so we dropped it in on the way up North for a shoot! When I collected it I had a brain-wave and enquired whether the guy had any half-track machines and for a small amout extra I got one! Now I could play all of the fantastic Wood Norton stereo demo tapes which I had copied with the aid of Chris Daubney, lecturer! I still have the machine and the tapes! Talking of Collaro Studio decks, one of our esteemed contributers had an article published in Hi-Fi News about haw to convert the deck to vary-speed spooling just like the TR90 etc. I also have a deck given to me by an old VS at TVC! Cheers, Dave From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Thu Jul 7 17:45:33 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 23:45:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com><2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <34A8ED398D4A4D07B14F11BB51630379@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Well done Dave - I too purloined double triodes from the same source and still have a few somewhere. The number only valve refs were the Brimar Special Quality versions which seem to be what the Beeb usually had. As you say, 6057 for the ECC83 and 6060 for the ECC81. The Mullard SQ valves were respectively the M8137 and M8162 but I don't recall ever coming across them in use at TVC. Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 10:08 PM To: David Newbitt ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Moi aussi! I built two Mullard 5-10s using the HQ valves from TVC test room bins! ECC83 became 6057 0and the ECC81 was 6060 and so on).I spent ages using the huge Avo valve tester to sort out the good from the not-so. I think I bought the kits up the Edgware Road from one of the Smith's shops. Once I knew about the existence of tape recorders in the late 50's I visited a local shop called Nottingham Tape Recorders and fell in love with a Tandberg which had three heads but I couldn't afford it so, I ended up with a Philips EL3538 3-speed valve machine which lasted me for many years. After Evesham, I used to take it into work to 'squeak' it and adjust the azimuth, as you do! When I joined OBs in '81 we often went to Nottingham for football etc. and visited Anchor Surplus, an ex-WD Aladdin's cave of military stuff from rockets to cutlery! Once they had several Tandberg 15's, 7" three-speed half track machines for ?15! (used dor language training). These machines were used in Production offices at TVC so I was able to get a copy of the Service Manual from Sound Test! I still have the machine! Later on, my cameraperson on the Sports Unit, who helped out at his local church, got hold of the church's Tandberg 3300X stereo cross-field head, 4-track, machine for me. It needed servicing and there was a private Tandberg service place in Doncaster so we dropped it in on the way up North for a shoot! When I collected it I had a brain-wave and enquired whether the guy had any half-track machines and for a small amout extra I got one! Now I could play all of the fantastic Wood Norton stereo demo tapes which I had copied with the aid of Chris Daubney, lecturer! I still have the machine and the tapes! Talking of Collaro Studio decks, one of our esteemed contributers had an article published in Hi-Fi News about haw to convert the deck to vary-speed spooling just like the TR90 etc. I also have a deck given to me by an old VS at TVC! Cheers, Dave -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Jul 8 04:12:40 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 10:12:40 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> <2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <54c88dc3-80f7-96d2-ebc4-f38b4af50006@amps.net> Hi Everyone, I suppose that if the selection boards got it right, it would be inevitable that people with the same interests would be offered a job. Mention of the Tandberg reminded me that they were used for Language Labs, to learn another language. However, my French teacher at school was years ahead, having a Vortexion, which used the Ferrograph deck, and a Reslo ribbon mic. As I was the only 'scientist' in his class of A-Level Modern Language students, he put me in charge of the machine to record our efforts at French conversation. So that was my first official 'recordist' job! He also kindly lent it to me to make a commentary & music soundtrack to an 8mm film that I made of the school skiing trip one year.? He brought it to our house, which made my mother somewhat weak at the knees, as he was extremely good looking! I knew nothing of synchronous recording at that time, trusting that the machine would run at a constant speed. Pat On 07/07/2022 22:08, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > ?I visited a local shop called Nottingham Tape Recorders and fell in > love with a Tandberg which had three heads but I couldn't afford it > so, I ended up with a Philips EL3538 3-speed valve machine which > lasted me for many years. After Evesham, I used to take it into work > to 'squeak' it and adjust the azimuth, as you do! When I joined OBs in > '81 we often went to Nottingham for football etc. and visited Anchor > Surplus, an ex-WD Aladdin's cave of military stuff from rockets to > cutlery! Once they had several Tandberg 15's, 7" three-speed half > track machines for ?15! (used dor language training). These machines > were used in Production offices at TVC so I was able to get a copy of > the Service Manual from Sound Test! I still have the machine! > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Fri Jul 8 05:22:16 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 11:22:16 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <54c88dc3-80f7-96d2-ebc4-f38b4af50006@amps.net> References: <54c88dc3-80f7-96d2-ebc4-f38b4af50006@amps.net> Message-ID: <5D78C3C4-EBE9-4823-A67A-9E3984DF7538@me.com> > I knew nothing of synchronous recording at that time, trusting that the machine would run at a constant speed. > Pat My dad was quite keen on photography and the company he worked for had quite an active photography club with a very well equipped darkroom. Being keen on tape recording, I was asked to help out a colleague of his who was making 8mm movies and had recorded sound on location. He couldn?t understand why he was experiencing synchronisation issues. You will all know why. In those days, the only readily affordable portable tape recorders were the dreadful ones with no capstan. The take-up spool was driven at constant speed and dragged the tape past the head ( if I remember right it was a single head - erase might have been done by moving a magnet into contact with the tape ). He thought that the 3? reels of tape would be pretty well perfect as they would run for a similar duration as a small reel of 8mm film. His idea was to start the projector and tape recorder simultaneously, having cued them up with marks on their respective leader tapes. Obviously I immediately understood the problem, but he didn?t really believe my explanation. I ended up playing his tape and using a darkroom timer to time the duration, then rewinding and timing it again. I can?t remember the exact details, but do remember that two consecutive runs were more than a minute different in duration on a tape which ran for five or maybe ten minutes. I was expecting it to be different, but not that different. He was disappointed about that, but I made up for it by showing him how I had made a very neat looking windshield for a dynamic microphone by using four cheap tea strainers with the handles sawn off ( inspired by a magazine article ). A sleeve of tin was made to be a friction fit on my microphone and was then poked through a microphone sized hole in the mesh and soldered into place. Two strainers ( one with a similar hole ) were soldered together to make a sphere and covered with fabric salvaged from mum's nylons. The last strainer was slid over and taped around it?s equator. The nylon mesh ended up trapped between two concentric spheres. It worked well enough and looked the part too. The guy really liked the look of it and made his own. Instead of tape, he glued them together with a new wonder adhesive called Araldite. He gave me a pack of Araldite as a thank you and I rebuilt my windshield accordingly. The remainder proved to be very useful in my model building projects. I don?t think he ever got proper synchronous sound. He ended up doing mixed media shows using movies with unsynchronised music. The audio tape would be the master. The film started running on a cue soon after the music began. The tape kept playing after the film ended, becoming a commentary mixed with music with accompanying visuals from a slide projector. While this was happening, he would re-cue the film to the next section and run it again on the next cue. People watching didn?t seem to notice that he was using stills during the commentary, especially as the commentary could overlap the start of film sequences without being noticeably out of sync. I was impressed to observe how he planned and rehearsed everything to make it work seamlessly, despite the technical limitations. He also impressed on me how important it is to tell a story, rather than just showing pictures and playing sound. Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Fri Jul 8 06:14:44 2022 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 12:14:44 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <34A8ED398D4A4D07B14F11BB51630379@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> <2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <34A8ED398D4A4D07B14F11BB51630379@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: Dave & Dave, When I 'rescued' the amp. rack that served the echo rooms at TVC I found 6060s in the three AMC5 mic amps. They tested 'good' once I had learnt how to use the AVO valve tester! I wonder how long these had been working? Originally there would have? been three rooms but by the time I came to use them the first two had plates in them but the third remained a room and you could move the 'speaker and mic around for differing effects. So I guess the last time the set-up was tested would have been when the routeable control of the two plates was installed, (in the mid 1960s?). We don't have any fault logs but these amplifiers could have been working for 10 years or more I reckon this was the last valve equipment to be in use in the Television Centre unless anyone knows different. The article about variable spooling for the Collaro tape deck appeared in Radio Constructor and I was paid 11Gns for it! Hibou (John H) On 07/07/2022 23:45, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > Well done Dave - I too purloined double triodes from the same source > and still have a few somewhere. The number only valve refs were the > Brimar Special Quality versions which seem to be what the Beeb usually > had. As you say, 6057 for the ECC83 and 6060 for the ECC81. The > Mullard SQ valves were respectively the M8137 and M8162 but I don't > recall ever coming across them in use at TVC. > > Dave Newbitt. > > -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1 > Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 10:08 PM > To: David Newbitt ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age > > Moi aussi! I built two Mullard 5-10s using the HQ valves from TVC test > room bins! ECC83 became 6057 0and the ECC81 was 6060 and so on).I spent > ages using the huge Avo valve tester to sort out the good from the > not-so. I think I bought the kits up the Edgware Road from one of the > Smith's shops. Once I knew about the existence of tape recorders in the > late 50's I visited a local shop called Nottingham Tape Recorders and > fell in love with a Tandberg which had three heads but I couldn't afford > it so, I ended up with a Philips EL3538 3-speed valve machine which > lasted me for many years. After Evesham, I used to take it into work to > 'squeak' it and adjust the azimuth, as you do! When I joined OBs in '81 > we often went to Nottingham for football etc. and visited Anchor > Surplus, an ex-WD Aladdin's cave of military stuff from rockets to > cutlery! Once they had several Tandberg 15's, 7" three-speed half track > machines for ?15! (used dor language training). These machines were used > in Production offices at TVC so I was able to get a copy of the Service > Manual from Sound Test! I still have the machine! Later on, my > cameraperson on the Sports Unit, who helped out at his local church, got > hold of the church's Tandberg 3300X stereo cross-field head, 4-track, > machine for me. It needed servicing and there was a private Tandberg > service place in Doncaster so we dropped it in on the way up North for a > shoot! When I collected it I had a brain-wave and enquired whether the > guy had any half-track machines and for a small amout extra I got one! > Now I could play all of the fantastic Wood Norton stereo demo tapes > which I had copied with the aid of Chris Daubney, lecturer! I still have > the machine and the tapes! Talking of Collaro Studio decks, one of our > esteemed contributers had an article published in Hi-Fi News about haw > to convert the deck to vary-speed spooling just like the TR90 etc. I > also have a deck given to me by an old VS at TVC! Cheers, Dave > From david.jasma at sky.com Fri Jul 8 06:33:47 2022 From: david.jasma at sky.com (Dave Buckley) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 12:33:47 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> <2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <34A8ED398D4A4D07B14F11BB51630379@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <3eb0eca0-70ca-132a-14ff-6879520935e2@sky.com> The only valve amp I have ever built was way back in 1966 - made by Heathkit. However, while working at AP around the same time, one of the recordists in the Film Transfer area, built a double Williamson amp, and brought it in one Sunday (things were very quiet on a Sunday in those days), to do a frequency test. He was a bit puzzled to find that it had a 'hump' in the response at about 23kc/24kc. After trying to get the amp 'flat' by changing some components, he plugged the frequency generator into the detector and found that it was the test equipment that had the hump! I reminded him of this many years later when he came to TV Training as part of film crews from Ealing shooting films for trainee Directors. One of the 'jobs' I did at TVT was an annual check of the valves (low noise EF86s) in some C28 mics which had been declared redundant, so were 're-routed' to the department. We kept four of these permanently rigged on low mic stands for interviews (before tieclip mics became the norm). As they powered up whenever the studio was in use (whether or not the mics were actually used) in the years that the department had them, I think I only changed one valve. The mic test room at Avenue House had supplied a few spare valves and quite a lot of other spare parts for the mics. Happy Days!! Dave Buckley -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From alanaudio at me.com Fri Jul 8 06:44:29 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 12:44:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2D1F10D8-0D49-42E6-A93C-DE8F9B94A438@me.com> For anybody interested in discovering what a publisher could buy for 11Gns in 1965, see page 411. https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Radio-Constructor/60s/RC-1965-01.pdf It?s a good article, although it might be tricky sourcing a suitable potentiometer if you wanted to try doing it these days. Alan > The article about variable spooling for the Collaro tape deck appeared in Radio Constructor and I was paid 11Gns for it! > > > Hibou > > (John H) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Jul 8 06:55:02 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 12:55:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> <2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <34A8ED398D4A4D07B14F11BB51630379@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: A couple of stories, and comments... One guy (name withheld) wanted to build a mic amp, so 'borrowed' the spare from an Apparatus Room.He was caught and sacked. Silly boy, if he'd asked, he might have been loaned one. But possibly not! The BBC was remarkably jealous. Remembering John Henshall's brilliant idea of mounting a lipstick camera on a boom. (40-Love) He got hauled over the coals, instead of the BBC realising that this was an idea worth pursuing. (Game) I was asked to provide a circuit diagram as to the pluggery for the Dalek voices in Dr Who. The Sound Office, in the guise of Sam, removed my name from the drawing, (maybe inserting his own). I suppose it was in our contracts, that anything one did, whilst working for the Corporation, was BBC property. Pat On 08/07/2022 12:14, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > Dave & Dave, > > When I 'rescued' the amp. rack that served the echo rooms at TVC I > found 6060s in the three AMC5 mic amps. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Fri Jul 8 07:16:59 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 13:16:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> <2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <34A8ED398D4A4D07B14F11BB51630379@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <8c5bd4ec-02bc-66cc-021b-7c7c8b7dae5e@btinternet.com> Sorry, John, memories are not what they used to be! At least the TVC echo room was useable when it was raining outdoors! The Lime Grove one had birds nesting in it and you could hear the rain! I remember the plates in TCs 3 and 4 and having to plug them up on CAR tie-lines for the use of OBs and setting the reverb time as requested. The Ambiophony control unit was also installed in one of the SARs and Chris Daubney had the task of installing the loudspeakers in TCs 1,3 and 4 when he had joined Designs Dept. as his third-class Honours degree wasn't good enough for Research Dept.! TC1 was the nearest to perfection but we never had the orchestra in the correct position! I used to use the one in TC4 for the audience play-out music with 'Bye-bye Blues' after a sit-com. Cheers, Dave. PS. I think Chris ended up at the IBA. From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Fri Jul 8 07:35:13 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 13:35:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Beeb after-life In-Reply-To: <3eb0eca0-70ca-132a-14ff-6879520935e2@sky.com> References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> <2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <34A8ED398D4A4D07B14F11BB51630379@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <3eb0eca0-70ca-132a-14ff-6879520935e2@sky.com> Message-ID: <0947d498-32e6-c46a-d7a6-47d53a6c2815@btinternet.com> One of my mates at TVC was a VO called John Brown and he had built Heathkit amolifiers etc. He lived me near Hounslow in the early 70's and we went to his wedding. He left the Beeb to run a sweet shop on the IOW! Malcolm Strutt, one of my SA1s, lived in a commume in Ealing and sat cross-legged on the boom platform doing Yoga, and also escorted American tourists to Katmandu for loads of money! Derek Saunders, another SA1 left to run a tea room in Devon, I think, Dave Ball, one of my best mates on Crew 1, with Dave Hawthorn, we all came from Nottingham. Dave Ball left and went to the Rolls-Royce noise measuring labs. Firstly at Hucknall airodrome and then in Derby. He had the most amazing hi-fi set-up! Cheers, Dave From dave at davesound.co.uk Fri Jul 8 08:17:06 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 14:17:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <8c5bd4ec-02bc-66cc-021b-7c7c8b7dae5e@btinternet.com> References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> <2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <34A8ED398D4A4D07B14F11BB51630379@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <8c5bd4ec-02bc-66cc-021b-7c7c8b7dae5e@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <2c28513c-936a-f6de-39bd-494287b30875@davesound.co.uk> Ah - Ambiophony. Wonder how many times it was used successfully? At that sort of time I think were short of the basics like mics - and had to use whatever was around. Seemed an odd way to spend a limited budget. On 08/07/2022 13:16, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > Sorry, John, memories are not what they used to be! At least the TVC > echo room was useable when it was raining outdoors! The Lime Grove one > had birds nesting in it and you could hear the rain! I remember the > plates in TCs 3 and 4 and having to plug them up on CAR tie-lines for > the use of OBs and setting the reverb time as requested. The > Ambiophony control unit was also installed in one of the SARs and > Chris Daubney had the task of installing the loudspeakers in TCs 1,3 > and 4 when he had joined Designs Dept. as his third-class Honours > degree wasn't good enough for Research Dept.! TC1 was the nearest to > perfection but we never had the orchestra in the correct position! I > used to use the one in TC4 for the audience play-out music with > 'Bye-bye Blues' after a sit-com. Cheers, Dave. PS. I think Chris ended > up at the IBA. > -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Fri Jul 8 09:01:24 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 15:01:24 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Beeb after-life In-Reply-To: <0947d498-32e6-c46a-d7a6-47d53a6c2815@btinternet.com> References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com><2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><34A8ED398D4A4D07B14F11BB51630379@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><3eb0eca0-70ca-132a-14ff-6879520935e2@sky.com> <0947d498-32e6-c46a-d7a6-47d53a6c2815@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <9A5D23C9C29D482389F9A8865EDCC74A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> I remember us joking re Dave Ball that he was happier with an oscilloscope at the end of each stereo channel rather than speakers! Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1 Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 1:35 PM To: Dave Buckley ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb after-life One of my mates at TVC was a VO called John Brown and he had built Heathkit amolifiers etc. He lived me near Hounslow in the early 70's and we went to his wedding. He left the Beeb to run a sweet shop on the IOW! Malcolm Strutt, one of my SA1s, lived in a commume in Ealing and sat cross-legged on the boom platform doing Yoga, and also escorted American tourists to Katmandu for loads of money! Derek Saunders, another SA1 left to run a tea room in Devon, I think, Dave Ball, one of my best mates on Crew 1, with Dave Hawthorn, we all came from Nottingham. Dave Ball left and went to the Rolls-Royce noise measuring labs. Firstly at Hucknall airodrome and then in Derby. He had the most amazing hi-fi set-up! Cheers, Dave -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Fri Jul 8 12:43:11 2022 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 18:43:11 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <54c88dc3-80f7-96d2-ebc4-f38b4af50006@amps.net> References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com><2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <54c88dc3-80f7-96d2-ebc4-f38b4af50006@amps.net> Message-ID: <03B367318E284B2F87632747403CDE0E@Gigabyte> We had 2 Ferrographs available at school so simple edit was possible. Also helped when I did a sound track for a film we made ? still got the audio but they lost the film ? shame! No studio of course but a good ?understage? area also used as a gathering/drinks area (non-alchoholic of course) The pile of wires on the right may be part of my built personal tape deck being built. The nice switchbox on the left of the SMs corner was my first EMX construction ? before I headed for BH Comms/Lines bit! The curtain handle is still there in use some 60years later but I think they have replaced the 5A and 15A sockets I had to repair a tape I made in 1964 of Paul Simon singing at our school folk club and so had to get my splicing block out of the garage cupboard to enable repair since the sellotape splices had given up. Mike From: Pat Heigham via Tech1 Sent: Friday, July 08, 2022 10:12 AM To: dave.mdv ; David Newbitt ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Hi Everyone, I suppose that if the selection boards got it right, it would be inevitable that people with the same interests would be offered a job. Mention of the Tandberg reminded me that they were used for Language Labs, to learn another language. However, my French teacher at school was years ahead, having a Vortexion, which used the Ferrograph deck, and a Reslo ribbon mic. As I was the only 'scientist' in his class of A-Level Modern Language students, he put me in charge of the machine to record our efforts at French conversation. So that was my first official 'recordist' job! He also kindly lent it to me to make a commentary & music soundtrack to an 8mm film that I made of the school skiing trip one year. He brought it to our house, which made my mother somewhat weak at the knees, as he was extremely good looking! I knew nothing of synchronous recording at that time, trusting that the machine would run at a constant speed. Pat -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Stage managers corner.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 320633 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Stage recording studio.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 323615 bytes Desc: not available URL: From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Fri Jul 8 13:58:47 2022 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 19:58:47 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <6DCD15E18CBD454985D4E5DF0D8D9B0E@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> <6DCD15E18CBD454985D4E5DF0D8D9B0E@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <512fcc4e-d762-354c-f329-f3c333a7d2ce@howell61.f9.co.uk> At my school the CCF had a portable PA system which consisted of a car battery, a control unit, several re-entrant horn 'speakers and a mic with cooling fins. I subsequently found that it was a gunnery co-ordination system, it had no valves or transistors. the circuit can be described in one sentence: The mic draws current (up to 4 Amps!) through the primary of a step up transformer, with its secondaries connected to the 'speakers. A vehicle headlamp bulb acted as a compressor and pilot light, when the current increased the bulb warmed up, its resistance increased and the current went down. The unit also had a calling configuration wherein the circuit could generate a calling signal at each gun position and the 'speaker would turn into a mic so the gunnery officer could hear what the troops .were doing. The microphone was a wonderful device, seven little discs each resting in its own pot of carbon granules, see attached pic. Stems from each disc we4re soldered to the main diaphragm to give a combined effort..........and yes it _did_ need cooling, the mic could disipate up to 48 Watts peak. We got it going, it sounded awful but it was intriguing because it had no active devices. It was made by Tannoy. Regards, Hibou. On 06/07/2022 14:12, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > Like you Mike I have memories of CCF gear. I spent some time in the > school's Signals Platoon with your 38 sets which I liked and also with > the 18 sets which I didn't like - can't remember why. Back in the > Signals Hut I think it was a beefy 11 set we learned to operate. As > commented elsewhere you can now pocket what used to require a > fork-lift truck. > > Dave Newbitt. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tannoy Mic 07.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 2806168 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Fri Jul 8 15:13:53 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 21:13:53 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <512fcc4e-d762-354c-f329-f3c333a7d2ce@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <512fcc4e-d762-354c-f329-f3c333a7d2ce@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: When I was about seven or eight ( I know the age because of where I was living ), I was given a Tannoy carbon microphone which had die cast fins. I didn?t realise they were cooling fins, I just thought it must have been a styling feature. I never used it powered with more than a few volts so it never got warm nor loud. It was pretty hideous audio quality, but as a kid it was great fun to play with. This link shows one which is almost identical to the one I had. https://greatbritainrare.com/tannoy-microphone-headset-in-box-rare-ww2-british-military-issue-raf-scramble.htm Alan > On 8 Jul 2022, at 19:59, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > At my school the CCF had a portable PA system which consisted of a car battery, a control unit, several re-entrant horn 'speakers and a mic with cooling fins. I subsequently found that it was a gunnery co-ordination system, it had no valves or transistors. the circuit can be described in one sentence: The mic draws current (up to 4 Amps!) through the primary of a step up transformer, with its secondaries connected to the 'speakers. > > A vehicle headlamp bulb acted as a compressor and pilot light, when the current increased the bulb warmed up, its resistance increased and the current went down. The unit also had a calling configuration wherein the circuit could generate a calling signal at each gun position and the 'speaker would turn into a mic so the gunnery officer could hear what the troops .were doing. > > The microphone was a wonderful device, seven little discs each resting in its own pot of carbon granules, see attached pic. Stems from each disc we4re soldered to the main diaphragm to give a combined effort..........and yes it did need cooling, the mic could disipate up to 48 Watts peak. > > > We got it going, it sounded awful but it was intriguing because it had no active devices. It was made by Tannoy. > > > Regards, > > Hibou. > > > > > > > > On 06/07/2022 14:12, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >> Like you Mike I have memories of CCF gear. I spent some time in the school's Signals Platoon with your 38 sets which I liked and also with the 18 sets which I didn't like - can't remember why. Back in the Signals Hut I think it was a beefy 11 set we learned to operate. As commented elsewhere you can now pocket what used to require a fork-lift truck. >> >> Dave Newbitt. >> > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tannoy Mic 07.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 531346 bytes Desc: not available URL: From waresound at msn.com Fri Jul 8 15:36:22 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 20:36:22 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <3eb0eca0-70ca-132a-14ff-6879520935e2@sky.com> References: <3eb0eca0-70ca-132a-14ff-6879520935e2@sky.com> Message-ID: Not wanting to nit-pick, but I don?t think I ever saw a C28 with an EF86 in it. It was supposed to be a 6072 double triode (ECC83 equiv, IIRC), not a pentode. The valve was for impedance matching between the 120VDC polarised capsule and the output transformer, not for gain as such. Cheers, N. Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > On 8 Jul 2022, at 12:34, Dave Buckley via Tech1 wrote: > > ?The only valve amp I have ever built was way back in 1966 - made by Heathkit. > > However, while working at AP around the same time, one of the recordists in the Film Transfer area, built a double Williamson amp, and brought it in one Sunday (things were very quiet on a Sunday in those days), to do a frequency test. > > He was a bit puzzled to find that it had a 'hump' in the response at about 23kc/24kc. > > After trying to get the amp 'flat' by changing some components, he plugged the frequency generator into the detector and found that it was the test equipment that had the hump! > > I reminded him of this many years later when he came to TV Training as part of film crews from Ealing shooting films for trainee Directors. > > One of the 'jobs' I did at TVT was an annual check of the valves (low noise EF86s) in some C28 mics which had been declared redundant, so were 're-routed' to the department. We kept four of these permanently rigged on low mic stands for interviews (before tieclip mics became the norm). > > As they powered up whenever the studio was in use (whether or not the mics were actually used) in the years that the department had them, I think I only changed one valve. The mic test room at Avenue House had supplied a few spare valves and quite a lot of other spare parts for the mics. > > Happy Days!! > > Dave Buckley > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Fri Jul 8 17:13:11 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 23:13:11 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: <3eb0eca0-70ca-132a-14ff-6879520935e2@sky.com> Message-ID: <3765408480034F1BB59E3B00E902396E@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Ah, the 6072 - GE's top quality version of the ECC83 and apparently the bee's knees version at that. Seems you can still find them across the pond at $200 or so! Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: Nick Ware via Tech1 Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 9:36 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Not wanting to nit-pick, but I don?t think I ever saw a C28 with an EF86 in it. It was supposed to be a 6072 double triode (ECC83 equiv, IIRC), not a pentode. The valve was for impedance matching between the 120VDC polarised capsule and the output transformer, not for gain as such. Cheers, N. Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > On 8 Jul 2022, at 12:34, Dave Buckley via Tech1 > wrote: > > ?The only valve amp I have ever built was way back in 1966 - made by > Heathkit. > > However, while working at AP around the same time, one of the recordists > in the Film Transfer area, built a double Williamson amp, and brought it > in one Sunday (things were very quiet on a Sunday in those days), to do a > frequency test. > > He was a bit puzzled to find that it had a 'hump' in the response at about > 23kc/24kc. > > After trying to get the amp 'flat' by changing some components, he plugged > the frequency generator into the detector and found that it was the test > equipment that had the hump! > > I reminded him of this many years later when he came to TV Training as > part of film crews from Ealing shooting films for trainee Directors. > > One of the 'jobs' I did at TVT was an annual check of the valves (low > noise EF86s) in some C28 mics which had been declared redundant, so were > 're-routed' to the department. We kept four of these permanently rigged on > low mic stands for interviews (before tieclip mics became the norm). > > As they powered up whenever the studio was in use (whether or not the mics > were actually used) in the years that the department had them, I think I > only changed one valve. The mic test room at Avenue House had supplied a > few spare valves and quite a lot of other spare parts for the mics. > > Happy Days!! > > Dave Buckley > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Fri Jul 8 17:46:56 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 23:46:56 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: <3eb0eca0-70ca-132a-14ff-6879520935e2@sky.com> Message-ID: <98ECAEA6BEBA4FEA92417E377D36324F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> A long time since I had occasion to look at valve prices but looking now I wonder why $200 seemed a lot of money for a GE6072. I see a Telefunken EF806S (SQ version of the EF86) as used in the Neumann U67 is a cool $500 in the States. Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: David Newbitt Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 11:13 PM To: Nick Ware ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Ah, the 6072 - GE's top quality version of the ECC83 and apparently the bee's knees version at that. Seems you can still find them across the pond at $200 or so! Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: Nick Ware via Tech1 Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 9:36 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Not wanting to nit-pick, but I don?t think I ever saw a C28 with an EF86 in it. It was supposed to be a 6072 double triode (ECC83 equiv, IIRC), not a pentode. The valve was for impedance matching between the 120VDC polarised capsule and the output transformer, not for gain as such. Cheers, N. Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > On 8 Jul 2022, at 12:34, Dave Buckley via Tech1 > wrote: > > ?The only valve amp I have ever built was way back in 1966 - made by > Heathkit. > > However, while working at AP around the same time, one of the recordists > in the Film Transfer area, built a double Williamson amp, and brought it > in one Sunday (things were very quiet on a Sunday in those days), to do a > frequency test. > > He was a bit puzzled to find that it had a 'hump' in the response at about > 23kc/24kc. > > After trying to get the amp 'flat' by changing some components, he plugged > the frequency generator into the detector and found that it was the test > equipment that had the hump! > > I reminded him of this many years later when he came to TV Training as > part of film crews from Ealing shooting films for trainee Directors. > > One of the 'jobs' I did at TVT was an annual check of the valves (low > noise EF86s) in some C28 mics which had been declared redundant, so were > 're-routed' to the department. We kept four of these permanently rigged on > low mic stands for interviews (before tieclip mics became the norm). > > As they powered up whenever the studio was in use (whether or not the mics > were actually used) in the years that the department had them, I think I > only changed one valve. The mic test room at Avenue House had supplied a > few spare valves and quite a lot of other spare parts for the mics. > > Happy Days!! > > Dave Buckley > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From Waresound at msn.com Sat Jul 9 02:49:55 2022 From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 07:49:55 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: <98ECAEA6BEBA4FEA92417E377D36324F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <3eb0eca0-70ca-132a-14ff-6879520935e2@sky.com> <98ECAEA6BEBA4FEA92417E377D36324F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: Or the even more rare AC701k as used in the KM54 among others. NOS on eBay for $2995.00! I know I had a spare unused one of those that came with a pair of ex-Decca KM54?s that I once owned, but I?m damned if I can find it. I think it must have gone to Funky Junk with the mics. N. Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > On 8 Jul 2022, at 23:47, David Newbitt wrote: > > ?A long time since I had occasion to look at valve prices but looking now I wonder why $200 seemed a lot of money for a GE6072. I see a Telefunken EF806S (SQ version of the EF86) as used in the Neumann U67 is a cool $500 in the States. > > Dave Newbitt. > > -----Original Message----- From: David Newbitt > Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 11:13 PM > To: Nick Ware ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age > > Ah, the 6072 - GE's top quality version of the ECC83 and apparently the > bee's knees version at that. Seems you can still find them across the pond > at $200 or so! > > Dave Newbitt. > > -----Original Message----- From: Nick Ware via Tech1 > Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 9:36 PM > To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age > > Not wanting to nit-pick, but I don?t think I ever saw a C28 with an EF86 in it. It was supposed to be a 6072 double triode (ECC83 equiv, IIRC), not a pentode. The valve was for impedance matching between the 120VDC polarised capsule and the output transformer, not for gain as such. > Cheers, > N. > Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > >> On 8 Jul 2022, at 12:34, Dave Buckley via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?The only valve amp I have ever built was way back in 1966 - made by Heathkit. >> >> However, while working at AP around the same time, one of the recordists in the Film Transfer area, built a double Williamson amp, and brought it in one Sunday (things were very quiet on a Sunday in those days), to do a frequency test. >> >> He was a bit puzzled to find that it had a 'hump' in the response at about 23kc/24kc. >> >> After trying to get the amp 'flat' by changing some components, he plugged the frequency generator into the detector and found that it was the test equipment that had the hump! >> >> I reminded him of this many years later when he came to TV Training as part of film crews from Ealing shooting films for trainee Directors. >> >> One of the 'jobs' I did at TVT was an annual check of the valves (low noise EF86s) in some C28 mics which had been declared redundant, so were 're-routed' to the department. We kept four of these permanently rigged on low mic stands for interviews (before tieclip mics became the norm). >> >> As they powered up whenever the studio was in use (whether or not the mics were actually used) in the years that the department had them, I think I only changed one valve. The mic test room at Avenue House had supplied a few spare valves and quite a lot of other spare parts for the mics. >> >> Happy Days!! >> >> Dave Buckley >> >> -- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Sat Jul 9 04:54:04 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 10:54:04 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Beeb after-life In-Reply-To: <9A5D23C9C29D482389F9A8865EDCC74A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> <2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <34A8ED398D4A4D07B14F11BB51630379@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <3eb0eca0-70ca-132a-14ff-6879520935e2@sky.com> <0947d498-32e6-c46a-d7a6-47d53a6c2815@btinternet.com> <9A5D23C9C29D482389F9A8865EDCC74A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <672ae963-614d-2f0b-a621-69792add8a85@btinternet.com> Yes, Dave was a perfectionist! He built one of the famous Williamson amplifiers, with specially wound transformers, which was flat to 120Khz! His speaker array, behind floor to ceiling net curtains, consisted of IMF transmission-line speakers for the bass end (after having visited the factory, met the designer, John Wright, and bought specially made bass units with extra-long voice coils!), Lowther Acoustas for the mid-range, and GEC metal-cone speakers for the top end! Radford 22 pre-amp, Radford main amp., Garrard 401 turntable and an SME 12" arm with a Shure v15 cartridge plus a Ferrograph, completed the set up. Working in the Rolls-Royce Noise Measuring labs he had access to specially modified Nagras which were flat to 30Khz! He often borrowed one and recorded an A4 Pacific pulling into Grantham station! I swear you could smell the smoke! Cheers, Dave From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Sat Jul 9 06:49:30 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 12:49:30 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Beeb after-life In-Reply-To: <672ae963-614d-2f0b-a621-69792add8a85@btinternet.com> References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com><2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><34A8ED398D4A4D07B14F11BB51630379@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><3eb0eca0-70ca-132a-14ff-6879520935e2@sky.com><0947d498-32e6-c46a-d7a6-47d53a6c2815@btinternet.com><9A5D23C9C29D482389F9A8865EDCC74A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <672ae963-614d-2f0b-a621-69792add8a85@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <3EA317F0FAA848CA9D2A63C001294676@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> I never knew exactly what Dave Ball's set up comprised but it makes fascinating reading. As you know I shared his enthusiasm for Radford, have a clear memory of the Lowther Acoustas and like most was familiar with the 401/SME/v15 trio, also the Ferrograph of course. I don't believe I ever actually saw or heard a Williamson nor the IMF and GEC speakers. Re the Acoustas (the Chief Barker there being of course Donald Chave). From the time I spent in the retail Hi-Fi game I got to know Tannoy's chief sales rep - one Jack Bunt, an enormously entertaining character with an endless string of anecdotes. There was of course great rivalry and no small amount of banter between him on the Tannoy side and Donald Chave for Lowther. Attending a lecture given by the goodly Donald, Jack waited until the end before standing at the rear, loudly and mischievously announcing "the trouble with you Chave is you know f... all about loudspeakers"! In the days of the Russell Hotel annual Hi-Fi bashes he once went to the room adjoining the Tannoy room which was occupied by one of the (then considered upstart) Japanese manufacturers and said " would you mind turning your distortion down - we're trying to listen to music next door". Dave Newbitt -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1 Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2022 10:54 AM To: David Newbitt ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb after-life Yes, Dave was a perfectionist! He built one of the famous Williamson amplifiers, with specially wound transformers, which was flat to 120Khz! His speaker array, behind floor to ceiling net curtains, consisted of IMF transmission-line speakers for the bass end (after having visited the factory, met the designer, John Wright, and bought specially made bass units with extra-long voice coils!), Lowther Acoustas for the mid-range, and GEC metal-cone speakers for the top end! Radford 22 pre-amp, Radford main amp., Garrard 401 turntable and an SME 12" arm with a Shure v15 cartridge plus a Ferrograph, completed the set up. Working in the Rolls-Royce Noise Measuring labs he had access to specially modified Nagras which were flat to 30Khz! He often borrowed one and recorded an A4 Pacific pulling into Grantham station! I swear you could smell the smoke! Cheers, Dave -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Sat Jul 9 08:36:48 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 14:36:48 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age In-Reply-To: References: <3eb0eca0-70ca-132a-14ff-6879520935e2@sky.com><98ECAEA6BEBA4FEA92417E377D36324F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: Will it find a buyer at that price? If 'yes' it looks like a case for hoarding rather than de-cluttering when you next have a clear out. Dave Newbitt -----Original Message----- From: Nick Ware via Tech1 Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2022 8:49 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age Or the even more rare AC701k as used in the KM54 among others. NOS on eBay for $2995.00! I know I had a spare unused one of those that came with a pair of ex-Decca KM54?s that I once owned, but I?m damned if I can find it. I think it must have gone to Funky Junk with the mics. N. Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > On 8 Jul 2022, at 23:47, David Newbitt wrote: > > ?A long time since I had occasion to look at valve prices but looking now > I wonder why $200 seemed a lot of money for a GE6072. I see a Telefunken > EF806S (SQ version of the EF86) as used in the Neumann U67 is a cool $500 > in the States. > > Dave Newbitt. > > -----Original Message----- From: David Newbitt > Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 11:13 PM > To: Nick Ware ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age > > Ah, the 6072 - GE's top quality version of the ECC83 and apparently the > bee's knees version at that. Seems you can still find them across the pond > at $200 or so! > > Dave Newbitt. > > -----Original Message----- From: Nick Ware via Tech1 > Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 9:36 PM > To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Operations in the pre-digital age > > Not wanting to nit-pick, but I don?t think I ever saw a C28 with an EF86 > in it. It was supposed to be a 6072 double triode (ECC83 equiv, IIRC), not > a pentode. The valve was for impedance matching between the 120VDC > polarised capsule and the output transformer, not for gain as such. > Cheers, > N. > Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > >> On 8 Jul 2022, at 12:34, Dave Buckley via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ?The only valve amp I have ever built was way back in 1966 - made by >> Heathkit. >> >> However, while working at AP around the same time, one of the recordists >> in the Film Transfer area, built a double Williamson amp, and brought it >> in one Sunday (things were very quiet on a Sunday in those days), to do a >> frequency test. >> >> He was a bit puzzled to find that it had a 'hump' in the response at >> about 23kc/24kc. >> >> After trying to get the amp 'flat' by changing some components, he >> plugged the frequency generator into the detector and found that it was >> the test equipment that had the hump! >> >> I reminded him of this many years later when he came to TV Training as >> part of film crews from Ealing shooting films for trainee Directors. >> >> One of the 'jobs' I did at TVT was an annual check of the valves (low >> noise EF86s) in some C28 mics which had been declared redundant, so were >> 're-routed' to the department. We kept four of these permanently rigged >> on low mic stands for interviews (before tieclip mics became the norm). >> >> As they powered up whenever the studio was in use (whether or not the >> mics were actually used) in the years that the department had them, I >> think I only changed one valve. The mic test room at Avenue House had >> supplied a few spare valves and quite a lot of other spare parts for the >> mics. >> >> Happy Days!! >> >> Dave Buckley From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Sat Jul 9 09:22:47 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 15:22:47 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Historic van Message-ID: <123bbf0e-cb32-72fa-a82e-cfcbc61afa25@btinternet.com> This old truck was on duty today at the annual Woodhall Spa 40's weekend where everone tries to dress up in 40's style and there are parades and fly-pasts of 1940s equipment. Cheers, Dave -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Veteran BBC truck Type: image/jpeg Size: 2772247 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Sat Jul 9 09:34:03 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 15:34:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Historic van In-Reply-To: <123bbf0e-cb32-72fa-a82e-cfcbc61afa25@btinternet.com> References: <123bbf0e-cb32-72fa-a82e-cfcbc61afa25@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Is it really what it appears to be? There is a truck which looks much like that one which although is genuinely ex-BBC, it wasn?t used with a camera on the roof like that. It had a different role and has subsequently been mocked up to look more impressive. First thing I would look for would be the tailboard. If it doesn?t have a plausible tailboard, that would make me suspicious. I can?t remember the details, but it may have been discussed on here before. Did you talk to the guy about it? Alan > On 9 Jul 2022, at 15:23, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > > ?This old truck was on duty today at the annual Woodhall Spa 40's weekend where everone tries to dress up in 40's style and there are parades and fly-pasts of 1940s equipment. Cheers, Dave -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Veteran BBC truck.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 958286 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Sat Jul 9 09:56:43 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 15:56:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Historic van In-Reply-To: <123bbf0e-cb32-72fa-a82e-cfcbc61afa25@btinternet.com> References: <123bbf0e-cb32-72fa-a82e-cfcbc61afa25@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Alan is so tuned into this sort of thing that his suspicions are likely well founded, but I must say the photo is so appealing I'm not sure I mind! Since Chris's recent timely reminder about not wallowing too deeply in nostalgia however, I find a tinge of guilt creeping over me when past history has me engaging enthusiastically! Shamefacedly, Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1 Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2022 3:22 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Historic van This old truck was on duty today at the annual Woodhall Spa 40's weekend where everone tries to dress up in 40's style and there are parades and fly-pasts of 1940s equipment. Cheers, Dave -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From graeme.wall at icloud.com Sat Jul 9 09:59:42 2022 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 15:59:42 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Historic van In-Reply-To: References: <123bbf0e-cb32-72fa-a82e-cfcbc61afa25@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <2D6EBF07-6ACA-4752-A87D-B7ABFCB72B4E@icloud.com> Wrong cans! ? Graeme Wall > On 9 Jul 2022, at 15:34, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > > From alanaudio at me.com Sat Jul 9 10:17:44 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 16:17:44 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] (No subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My first thought was that it was fairly close to where the BECG have their new base and that they might have taken something over there, but I don?t know that they own anything which looks like that and don?t recognise the guy sat in the doorway as being one of the BECG stalwarts. I?m inclined to hold up the FALSE card rather than the TRUE card at this point, based on just that picture, but would be interested to know more - especially if it really is what it purports to be. Alan > On 9 Jul 2022, at 15:57, David Newbitt wrote: > > ?Alan is so tuned into this sort of thing that his suspicions are likely well founded, but I must say the photo is so appealing I'm not sure I mind! Since Chris's recent timely reminder about not wallowing too deeply in nostalgia however, I find a tinge of guilt creeping over me when past history has me engaging enthusiastically! > > Shamefacedly, > > Dave Newbitt. > > -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1 > Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2022 3:22 PM > To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: [Tech1] Historic van > > This old truck was on duty today at the annual Woodhall Spa 40's weekend > where everone tries to dress up in 40's style and there are parades and > fly-pasts of 1940s equipment. Cheers, Dave > > > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Sat Jul 9 10:28:23 2022 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 16:28:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Historic van In-Reply-To: References: <123bbf0e-cb32-72fa-a82e-cfcbc61afa25@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <96487c1e-4d62-87a4-92e2-c3f498b55db0@gmail.com> Hi all On 09/07/2022 15:34, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > it may have been discussed on here before It has been. This vehicle keeps popping up and is of course a fake. See http://tech-ops.co.uk/next/do-you-recognise-this-vehicle/ After its first excursion on the Tech Ops website, I sent all the information that we gathered? to the owner - who clearly was not interested.? What he wanted was a sandwich van painted in BBC colours with a pretend camera on the roof, and was not interested in the vehicle's real history. He collects money for charity - which is good - but totally ignores the vehicle's real history - which is extremely bad. Best regards, Alec -- ======= Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Mob: 07789 561 346 Tel: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com Sat Jul 9 10:57:46 2022 From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 16:57:46 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] When Vladimir Presses the Button Update Message-ID: Having a clear out of emails came across loads of replies. I?ll go with Berns suggestion of going up the East Tower with a makeup artist or wardrobe assistant of choice and Graemes location catering bacon roll. Next big decision, red or brown sauce! John V Sent from my iPad From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Sat Jul 9 11:05:23 2022 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 17:05:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Historic van In-Reply-To: <123bbf0e-cb32-72fa-a82e-cfcbc61afa25@btinternet.com> References: <123bbf0e-cb32-72fa-a82e-cfcbc61afa25@btinternet.com> Message-ID: I thought you always dressed in 10s style!! Mike -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1 Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2022 3:22 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Historic van This old truck was on duty today at the annual Woodhall Spa 40's weekend where everone tries to dress up in 40's style and there are parades and fly-pasts of 1940s equipment. Cheers, Dave -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Sat Jul 9 11:17:28 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 17:17:28 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Historic van In-Reply-To: References: <123bbf0e-cb32-72fa-a82e-cfcbc61afa25@btinternet.com> Message-ID: 10s style is more Jacob Reece-Mogg than me! If you meant 40s thats when I started school and had to dress 'proper'! Cheers, Dave From gary_critcher at yahoo.com Sun Jul 10 06:08:03 2022 From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 11:08:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] BBC website... References: <968223960.6758133.1657451283816.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <968223960.6758133.1657451283816@mail.yahoo.com> Have just seen this on the BBC website.?? They DO know that's Nancy Regan,? don't they? Or has the 12 year old who runs the site struck again? ? All the best, chin up! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot_20220710-134431_Samsung Internet.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 414783 bytes Desc: not available URL: From waresound at msn.com Sun Jul 10 06:24:13 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 11:24:13 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] BBC website... In-Reply-To: <968223960.6758133.1657451283816@mail.yahoo.com> References: <968223960.6758133.1657451283816.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <968223960.6758133.1657451283816@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Maybe the Cavvy was called Thatcher? N. Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 On 10 Jul 2022, at 12:08, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote: ? Have just seen this on the BBC website. They DO know that's Nancy Regan, don't they? Or has the 12 year old who runs the site struck again? All the best, chin up! [Screenshot_20220710-134431_Samsung Internet.jpg]-- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot_20220710-134431_Samsung Internet.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 414783 bytes Desc: Screenshot_20220710-134431_Samsung Internet.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot_20220710-134431_Samsung Internet.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 414783 bytes Desc: Screenshot_20220710-134431_Samsung Internet.jpg URL: From hughsnape at talktalk.net Sun Jul 10 14:16:00 2022 From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 20:16:00 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC website... In-Reply-To: <968223960.6758133.1657451283816@mail.yahoo.com> References: <968223960.6758133.1657451283816.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <968223960.6758133.1657451283816@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <662E61F2-0C8F-4F8A-A9BC-71C8C148B916@talktalk.net> That?s quite extraordinary isn?t it, but I fear nobody will care at all. Hugh > On 10 Jul 2022, at 12:08, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote: > > Have just seen this on the BBC website. > They DO know that's Nancy Regan, don't they? Or has the 12 year old who runs the site struck again? > > All the best, chin up! > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hughsnape at talktalk.net Sun Jul 10 14:16:28 2022 From: hughsnape at talktalk.net (Hugh Snape) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 20:16:28 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] BBC website... In-Reply-To: References: <968223960.6758133.1657451283816.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <968223960.6758133.1657451283816@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I thought the same thing! > On 10 Jul 2022, at 12:24, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > Maybe the Cavvy was called Thatcher? > N. > > Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > >> On 10 Jul 2022, at 12:08, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ? >> Have just seen this on the BBC website. >> They DO know that's Nancy Regan, don't they? Or has the 12 year old who runs the site struck again? >> >> All the best, chin up! >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 16:58:33 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 22:58:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Remembering NICAM Message-ID: <647b9cf6-c8d8-2f09-d723-27b6c07e5bca@gmail.com> Back in the mid eighties BBC research invented a digital sound system - NICAM.?? It was used in a lot of places and may still be. I played a tiny part, because I made the video for IBC that sold it. I may still have it somewhere. I thought you sound chaps would appreciate this - https://www.mattmillman.com/remembering-nicam-part-1-broadcast-equipment-teardown/ B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Mon Jul 11 03:18:54 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 09:18:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Remembering NICAM In-Reply-To: <647b9cf6-c8d8-2f09-d723-27b6c07e5bca@gmail.com> References: <647b9cf6-c8d8-2f09-d723-27b6c07e5bca@gmail.com> Message-ID: <946B1E39-16BE-444A-B717-F1A3405E3931@me.com> NICAM was used to transmit stereo sound via analogue TV transmitters. I believe that all transmitters have now gone digital and presumably NICAM is no longer used. I remember the days when the BBC transmitted experimental stereo programmes ( sound only ) using an FM receiver and a TV set. The idea was that those two devices were capable of reproducing relatively high quality audio and many families had both in one room. There were any number of technical reasons why it was a poor way of implementing stereo and I don?t recall the experiments continuing for long. FM radio wasn?t available until 1955 and the television was the highest quality sound source in most of those homes. When they weren?t transmitting TV shows, the BBC would sometimes transmit radio programming. Some early TVs included a switch to turn off the video parts of the TV receiver. Alan . > On 10 Jul 2022, at 22:59, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? Back in the mid eighties BBC research invented a digital sound system - NICAM. It was used in a lot of places and may still be. I played a tiny part, because I made the video for IBC that sold it. I may still have it somewhere. > > I thought you sound chaps would appreciate this - > > https://www.mattmillman.com/remembering-nicam-part-1-broadcast-equipment-teardown/ > > B > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Mon Jul 11 04:27:08 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 10:27:08 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Remembering NICAM In-Reply-To: <647b9cf6-c8d8-2f09-d723-27b6c07e5bca@gmail.com> References: <647b9cf6-c8d8-2f09-d723-27b6c07e5bca@gmail.com> Message-ID: Lest our rose-tinted specs colour our judgement too heavily, we should remember that France and Italy produced similar companded stereo line transmission systems at the same time, and that they were all to do with digital transmission of audio through the European telecom unified E1 network system. The BBC research department held considerable power at that time (early 60s) as an adjudicator in systems, and picked the NICAM2 system that it had been partly involved in developing, in preference to the other systems for transmission to its transmitters. NICAM 728 - the TV stereo broadcast system, was much more the product of BBC Research, and borrowed on the successful compander approach of NICAM2. In the early days BBC Research was indeed a splendid institution, but Auntie has never been above spinning many broadcast developments as its own, when that hasn't always been the case - and that these techniques were the best thing since sliced bread, even when that wasn't always true. It is wise to stand aside from the Brito-centric view at times, to avoid being sucked into it and becoming sadly blinkered. The US is a nation that struggles with this sort of self-delusion - it invented absolutely everything, won every war, and can't understand why its laws and ethics don't apply to the entire world. Only those separated by a big ocean are able to judge more accurately. Chris Woolf On 10/07/2022 22:58, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > Back in the mid eighties BBC research invented a digital sound system > - NICAM.?? It was used in a lot of places and may still be. I played a > tiny part, because I made the video for IBC that sold it. I may still > have it somewhere. > > I thought you sound chaps would appreciate this - > > https://www.mattmillman.com/remembering-nicam-part-1-broadcast-equipment-teardown/ > > B > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Mon Jul 11 04:44:09 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 10:44:09 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Stereo transmissions In-Reply-To: <946B1E39-16BE-444A-B717-F1A3405E3931@me.com> References: <647b9cf6-c8d8-2f09-d723-27b6c07e5bca@gmail.com> <946B1E39-16BE-444A-B717-F1A3405E3931@me.com> Message-ID: <927096b1-f818-8311-af84-fb2f52124ddf@btinternet.com> When I was at Uni. in 1957/8 I remember the Saturday morning stereo tests using TV sound as one channel and Third Progamme 464m. MW (!) as the other. Ping-pong sounded great! Cheers, Dave From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Mon Jul 11 05:33:29 2022 From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 11:33:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Remembering NICAM In-Reply-To: <946B1E39-16BE-444A-B717-F1A3405E3931@me.com> References: <647b9cf6-c8d8-2f09-d723-27b6c07e5bca@gmail.com> <946B1E39-16BE-444A-B717-F1A3405E3931@me.com> Message-ID: <006701d89511$a9701ff0$fc505fd0$@pgtmedia.co.uk> Nicam was used by the BBC within the Radio distribution to Transmitter?s, well before is Stereo TV sound to home use. The original Stereo Radio experiments were Wrotham - Kent (London only) on the Third Program only. The LBH to TX was a stereo equalised GPO copper wires. (As all the mono distribution was.) Equalising stereo pairs was a difficult job and not practical for the whole country. The GPO was unable to provide a uk wide stereo distribution network, but had a monopoly on supply. It was agreed as the GPO (BT) could not supply, the BBC could do its own thing and R&D built a linier (not Nicam) PCM system in the 60?s. This used the remnants of the 405 line tv distribution system as a transport mode (The 405 line TX?s were by now rebroadcasting and converting their local 625 TX). (COAX LBH to Swains Lane (North London) then SHF hops North and to Wrotham) Most BBC VHF 405 line sites were the same site as the Radio VHF) The linear PCM System caried 13x 15k bandwidth audios and some remote switching. This caried Radio 1/2 (Whichever had the TX as it was shared) ? 2 audios, Radio 3, 2 Audios, Radio 4 (2 audios) Radio 1,2,3,4 MW/LW in a processed form (Compressed, b/w limited to 6.5 k ish, carrier tones for line present, opt out in progress, car fax (Early RDS) and Electricity board data to phase modulate the LW carrier to control some experimental ?Economy 7? meters These 4 were fed on copper circuits from VHF TX?s to their local MW/LW 3 x 15 k audios were routed in to national and some local regions. These could be used for any adhoc audio contribution?s, from full bandwidth interviews, to the outgoing side of press talkback. The bit rate of this system was what was expected to be the agreed world standard, unfortunately something else was agreed by the world, leading to a few issues. A problem of being first! >From the mid 80?s the system was expanded by removing some 13 bit PCM Channel?s and replacing with Nicam 3 (14 bit companded to 10 bit) This was a bit of a jigsaw, to remove and replace and then move what was on which channel. The eventual system was 24 x 14 bit audios where 13 x 13 bit audios had been. Radio 3 / BBC TV has a long history of ?Simalcasts? The obvious one being the New Years Day Concert. In the days of Mono Analog TV and stereo Radio (Analog TX, but digital to TX) it was possible to co time , so you could watch on TV and listen on Radio 3. Its still broadcast on TV & Radio with the same presenter, but no longer possible to listen on Radio and view on TV due to the different digital & Sat delays. It can now be several seconds different, depending on your viewing / listening combination, but not neceserry as TV has stereo (and in this case 5.1 sound) Available. Paul Paul Thackray PGT Media Consulting Ltd. 07802 243979 Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746 IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/ From: Tech1 On Behalf Of Alan Taylor via Tech1 Sent: 11 July 2022 09:19 To: tech1 Subject: Re: [Tech1] Remembering NICAM NICAM was used to transmit stereo sound via analogue TV transmitters. I believe that all transmitters have now gone digital and presumably NICAM is no longer used. I remember the days when the BBC transmitted experimental stereo programmes ( sound only ) using an FM receiver and a TV set. The idea was that those two devices were capable of reproducing relatively high quality audio and many families had both in one room. There were any number of technical reasons why it was a poor way of implementing stereo and I don?t recall the experiments continuing for long. FM radio wasn?t available until 1955 and the television was the highest quality sound source in most of those homes. When they weren?t transmitting TV shows, the BBC would sometimes transmit radio programming. Some early TVs included a switch to turn off the video parts of the TV receiver. Alan . On 10 Jul 2022, at 22:59, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > wrote: ? Back in the mid eighties BBC research invented a digital sound system - NICAM. It was used in a lot of places and may still be. I played a tiny part, because I made the video for IBC that sold it. I may still have it somewhere. I thought you sound chaps would appreciate this - https://www.mattmillman.com/remembering-nicam-part-1-broadcast-equipment-teardown/ B -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Mon Jul 11 06:32:53 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 12:32:53 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Remembering NICAM In-Reply-To: <006701d89511$a9701ff0$fc505fd0$@pgtmedia.co.uk> References: <647b9cf6-c8d8-2f09-d723-27b6c07e5bca@gmail.com> <946B1E39-16BE-444A-B717-F1A3405E3931@me.com> <006701d89511$a9701ff0$fc505fd0$@pgtmedia.co.uk> Message-ID: Indeed, my earlier post was incorrect - it should have been NICAM 3, not 2. NICAM 2 was judged the best system but heavy on bitrate, so was tweaked to NICAM3 to improve that. Chris Woolf On 11/07/2022 11:33, paul--- via Tech1 wrote: > > Nicam was used by the BBC within the Radio distribution to > Transmitter?s, well before is Stereo TV sound to home use. > > The original Stereo Radio experiments were Wrotham - Kent (London > only) on the Third Program only. The LBH to TX was a stereo equalised > GPO copper wires. (As all the mono distribution was.) Equalising > stereo pairs was a difficult job and not practical for the whole > country. The GPO was unable to provide a uk wide stereo distribution > network, but had a monopoly on supply. > > It was agreed as the GPO (BT) could not supply, the BBC could do its > own thing and R&D built a linier (not Nicam) PCM system in the 60?s. > This used the remnants of the 405 line tv distribution system as a > transport mode (The 405 line TX?s were by now rebroadcasting and > converting their local 625 TX). (COAX LBH to Swains Lane (North > London) then SHF hops North and to Wrotham) Most BBC VHF 405 line > sites were the same site as the Radio VHF) > > The linear PCM System caried 13x 15k bandwidth audios and some remote > switching. This caried Radio 1/2 (Whichever had the TX as it was > shared) ? 2 audios, Radio 3, 2 Audios, Radio 4 (2 audios) Radio > 1,2,3,4 MW/LW in a processed form (Compressed, b/w limited to 6.5 k > ish, carrier tones for line present, opt out in progress, car fax > (Early RDS) and Electricity board data to phase modulate the LW > carrier to control some experimental ?Economy 7? meters These 4 were > fed on copper circuits from VHF TX?s to their local MW/LW > > 3 x 15 k audios were routed in to national and some local regions. > These could be used for any adhoc audio contribution?s, from full > bandwidth interviews, to the outgoing side of press talkback. ?The bit > rate of this system was what was expected to be the agreed world > standard, unfortunately something else was agreed by the world, > leading to a few issues. A problem of being first! > > From the mid 80?s the system was expanded by removing some 13 bit PCM > Channel?s and replacing with Nicam 3 (14 bit companded to 10 bit) > ?This was a bit of a jigsaw, to remove and replace and then move what > was on which channel. The eventual system was 24 x 14 bit audios where > 13 x 13 bit audios had been. > > Radio 3 / BBC TV has a long history of ?Simalcasts? The obvious one > being the New Years Day Concert. In the days of Mono Analog TV and > stereo Radio (Analog TX, but digital to TX) it was possible to co time > , so you could watch on TV and listen on Radio 3. Its still broadcast > on TV & Radio with the same presenter, but no longer possible to > listen on Radio and view on TV due to the different digital & Sat > delays. It can now be several seconds different, depending on your > viewing / listening combination, but not neceserry as TV has stereo > (and in this case 5.1 sound) Available. > > Paul > > Paul Thackray > > PGT Media Consulting Ltd. > > 07802 243979 > > Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk > > Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk > > Linkedin; http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746 > > > IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/ > > > *From:*Tech1 *On Behalf Of *Alan Taylor > via Tech1 > *Sent:* 11 July 2022 09:19 > *To:* tech1 > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Remembering NICAM > > NICAM was used to transmit stereo sound via analogue TV transmitters. > ?I believe that all transmitters have now gone digital and presumably > NICAM is no longer used. > > I remember the days when the BBC transmitted experimental stereo > programmes ( sound only ) using an FM receiver and a TV set. ?The idea > was that those two devices were capable of reproducing relatively high > quality audio and many families had both in one room. > > There were any number of technical reasons why it was a poor way of > implementing stereo and I don?t recall the experiments continuing for > long. > > FM radio wasn?t available until 1955 and the television was the > highest quality sound source in most of those homes. ?When they > weren?t transmitting TV shows, the BBC would sometimes transmit radio > programming. ?Some early TVs included a switch to turn off the video > parts of the TV receiver. > > Alan > > . > > > > On 10 Jul 2022, at 22:59, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > wrote: > > ? Back in the mid eighties BBC research invented a digital sound > system - NICAM.?? It was used in a lot of places and may still be. > I played a tiny part, because I made the video for IBC that sold > it. I may still have it somewhere. > > I thought you sound chaps would appreciate this - > > https://www.mattmillman.com/remembering-nicam-part-1-broadcast-equipment-teardown/ > > B > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.jasma at sky.com Mon Jul 11 08:52:15 2022 From: david.jasma at sky.com (Dave Buckley) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:52:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Beeb after-life -oscilloscopes In-Reply-To: <9A5D23C9C29D482389F9A8865EDCC74A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <13DE22AE37B54035AC80075D68241CF8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <9BECE3BD-C267-4BB7-A40A-1FB588ADA0E0@me.com> <2A938F5906A040F290D9287F857C5996@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <34A8ED398D4A4D07B14F11BB51630379@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <3eb0eca0-70ca-132a-14ff-6879520935e2@sky.com> <0947d498-32e6-c46a-d7a6-47d53a6c2815@btinternet.com> <9A5D23C9C29D482389F9A8865EDCC74A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: The comment about having an oscilloscope instead of a speaker, reminds of the late Tony Youngman (who had been a TM - his name appears on the list of credits on an episode of A for Andromeda). Tony was the technical instructor for various courses when I joined TV Training in 1969. He used to say that an engineer could look at an oscilloscope and laugh at the joke! Dave Buckley -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From alanaudio at me.com Mon Jul 11 09:34:55 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 15:34:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Beeb after-life -oscilloscopes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <557B6954-6526-4EF5-A58F-7A4BCC476772@me.com> > He used to say that an engineer could look at an oscilloscope and laugh at the joke! I?ve worked on a few comedy shows which might actually have been funnier on an oscilloscope. Your joke is a bit like the one about having a sports car with suspension so firm that if you run over a penny, you can tell if it was heads or tails. Alan From dave at davesound.co.uk Mon Jul 11 10:37:13 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:37:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Beeb after-life -oscilloscopes In-Reply-To: <557B6954-6526-4EF5-A58F-7A4BCC476772@me.com> References: <557B6954-6526-4EF5-A58F-7A4BCC476772@me.com> Message-ID: My father used to say "Suspension by Harland and Wolff" On 11/07/2022 15:34, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> He used to say that an engineer could look at an oscilloscope and laugh at the joke! > I?ve worked on a few comedy shows which might actually have been funnier on an oscilloscope. > > Your joke is a bit like the one about having a sports car with suspension so firm that if you run over a penny, you can tell if it was heads or tails. > > Alan -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Mon Jul 11 15:55:26 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 21:55:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Women's footy Message-ID: <38abf2ba-759a-4caa-492b-1d3b3cb8958e@btinternet.com> 8-0, if only the million pound-a-month men were as good! Cheers, Dave From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Mon Jul 11 18:45:48 2022 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 00:45:48 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx Message-ID: <0ecfc931-99fb-c214-7d37-c82389b9c91b@howell61.f9.co.uk> You OB chaps are so knowledgeable about your vehicles, can you tell me what year this photograph was taken? I hope that there is enough information in the picture for you to make a decision. No prizes but I hope it will? provoke some lively discussion. I will reveal the answer in a few days time. Hibou. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Wimbledon_19xx 1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 530506 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jul 12 00:50:36 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 06:50:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <0ecfc931-99fb-c214-7d37-c82389b9c91b@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <0ecfc931-99fb-c214-7d37-c82389b9c91b@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: <6C3C268C-996D-40E2-9522-7B210348E419@me.com> The best I can offer is a bid for mid 1970s. All the prominent scanners are Type II scanners. There is a bit of an oddity in my OB career in that I rarely worked at Wimbledon, despite about 90% of the OB fleet and crews taking a three week residency there every year. Therefore I can?t remember much about the parking arrangements which might offer further clues. I do remember that in those days there was usually a marquee nearby with an unofficial branch of the BBC bar. See, I remember the important stuff. The reason I escaped Wimbledon was because during the mid to late 1970s I worked on Seaside Special and during the 1980s I mostly did drama. Alan > On 12 Jul 2022, at 00:46, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > You OB chaps are so knowledgeable about your vehicles, can you tell me what year this photograph was taken? I hope that there is enough information in the picture for you to make a decision. No prizes but I hope it will provoke some lively discussion. I will reveal the answer in a few days time. > > > > Hibou. > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Wimbledon_19xx 1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 458904 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jul 12 03:08:03 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:08:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <6C3C268C-996D-40E2-9522-7B210348E419@me.com> References: <6C3C268C-996D-40E2-9522-7B210348E419@me.com> Message-ID: <90AEB684-E2D6-455E-93B6-E22C1E5461B5@me.com> hi John, I just re-read what you posted and see that you do know the date and were looking for guesses, so I would guess at 1975. It was one of the few years I actually worked at Wimbledon and I was the SA2 on LO 4. Leigh Osborne was the SA1. Due to a run of consecutive programmes in the autumn we had been working away from home for a while and after finishing the Burleigh Horse Trials, we had just one night at home before going off on more shows. Both of our wives became pregnant that night and were due to give birth in early July. As it happened, Leigh?s wife gave birth on the Thursday of finals week and mine very late on Friday. Consequently neither of us were there for the de-rig and when our camera van returned to base, we had lost all our useful bits and pieces which we had acquired and built over the years. Leigh was fuming about it and for the next few months, he would take any opportunity to look for the camera vans of other units in base or on multi-scanner jobs and would go through all their ?bits and bobs? boxes to try and recover his treasures. He was very methodical and noted each unit in his diary as he scoured their camera van until he knew that he had rummaged through them all. When we were at the Burleigh Horse Trials, large events on country estates become very congested afterwards. By the time we have gone off air and derigged, every road on the estate was gridlocked, as were the public roads outside of the estate. Ian Leiper had given me a lift and he was getting very impatient with the queues. I can?t remember what car he had, but it must have been something nice like a Volvo. He decided to drive over the fields of the estate and find an exit that way. The planning sheet included a detailed map of the estate, so we navigated a route to take us away from the obvious routes to the main roads. When we arrived at an exit, there was a NCP attendant who was stopping people pushing into the queue ( countless others had the same idea ). Ian got out of his car, spoke to the the NCP guy who immediately held up the other cars and waved us through. He told him that we were vets rushing to assist a horse travelling in a horse box which had been injured and was in distress. I?ve met a few vets in my time and Ian couldn?t have looked more different to a typical vet, but fortunately his ruse worked perfectly and I got home in time to add to my family. Alan > On 12 Jul 2022, at 06:51, Alan Taylor wrote: > > ? > The best I can offer is a bid for mid 1970s. All the prominent scanners are Type II scanners. > > There is a bit of an oddity in my OB career in that I rarely worked at Wimbledon, despite about 90% of the OB fleet and crews taking a three week residency there every year. Therefore I can?t remember much about the parking arrangements which might offer further clues. I do remember that in those days there was usually a marquee nearby with an unofficial branch of the BBC bar. See, I remember the important stuff. > > The reason I escaped Wimbledon was because during the mid to late 1970s I worked on Seaside Special and during the 1980s I mostly did drama. > > Alan > > >>> On 12 Jul 2022, at 00:46, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >>> >> ? >> You OB chaps are so knowledgeable about your vehicles, can you tell me what year this photograph was taken? I hope that there is enough information in the picture for you to make a decision. No prizes but I hope it will provoke some lively discussion. I will reveal the answer in a few days time. >> >> >> >> Hibou. >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Wimbledon_19xx 1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 422199 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Jul 12 03:36:33 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:36:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <90AEB684-E2D6-455E-93B6-E22C1E5461B5@me.com> References: <6C3C268C-996D-40E2-9522-7B210348E419@me.com> <90AEB684-E2D6-455E-93B6-E22C1E5461B5@me.com> Message-ID: <9b6ae11b-a196-e618-d9b7-c6d81e0ec5b4@amps.net> What a wonderful Ian Leiper story! I experienced similar congestion getting clear of Silverstone after the F1. However, for the French GP at Magny-Cours, the traffic police were brilliant, as they made several exit routes to be one-way, so there were extra lanes to feed out the traffic. More on Mr. Leiper (I learned a lot about Grams under his tutelage): The splendid Ian Leiper. In the 60?s TC1 Sound gallery only had one twin turntable unit. Ian, Gram-opping, continually complained to the sound office that there should be 4 turntables, as per the other TVC studios. One day he brought in an Edison wax cylinder player, on which he?d mounted a stereo cartridge, for vertical compliance to track the ?hill & dale? grooves. The studio maintenance TA?s had soldered the ball from a biro to the shank of the cartridge and plugged it into the sound desk. Sam Hutchings came round on his daily visit and spotted the device. ?Why?s that there?? ?Because you won?t give me another two turntables!? Ian retorted! Pat On 12/07/2022 09:08, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > hi John, I just re-read what you posted and see that you do know the > date and were looking for guesses, so I would guess at 1975. > > > When we were at the Burleigh Horse Trials, large events on country > estates become very congested afterwards. ?By the time we have gone > off air and derigged, every road on the estate was gridlocked, as were > the public roads outside of the estate. Ian Leiper had given me a lift > and he was getting very impatient with the queues. ?I can?t remember > what car he had, but it must have been something nice like a Volvo. He > decided to drive over the fields of the estate and find an exit that > way. ?The planning sheet included a detailed map of the estate, so we > navigated a route to take us away from the obvious routes to the main > roads. When we arrived at an exit, there was a NCP attendant who was > stopping people pushing into the queue ( countless others had the same > idea ). ?Ian got out of his car, spoke to the the NCP guy who > immediately held up the other cars and waved us through. ?He told him > rrthat we were vets rushing to assist a horse travelling in a horse > box which had been injured and was in distress. I?ve met a few vets in > my time and Ian couldn?t have looked more different to a typical vet, > but fortunately his ruse worked perfectly and I got home in time to > add to my family. > > Alan -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Tue Jul 12 03:48:48 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:48:48 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <0ecfc931-99fb-c214-7d37-c82389b9c91b@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <0ecfc931-99fb-c214-7d37-c82389b9c91b@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: A Hibou challenge ? unfortunately on a topic I know nothing of! Looking at the cars however I wonder if it might be somewhat earlier than 1975? Triumph Heralds were looking a bit long in the tooth by then and the one in the photo looks in fair nick. Perhaps very late 60s or early 70s? Dave Newbitt. From: John Howell via Tech1 Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 12:45 AM To: TechOps Forum Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx You OB chaps are so knowledgeable about your vehicles, can you tell me what year this photograph was taken? I hope that there is enough information in the picture for you to make a decision. No prizes but I hope it will provoke some lively discussion. I will reveal the answer in a few days time. Hibou. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Jul 12 05:13:16 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 11:13:16 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <90AEB684-E2D6-455E-93B6-E22C1E5461B5@me.com> References: <6C3C268C-996D-40E2-9522-7B210348E419@me.com> <90AEB684-E2D6-455E-93B6-E22C1E5461B5@me.com> Message-ID: Hi All, Guess I should call this Pat's Tennis Memories: I might have posed this question before, but does anyone remember the problem of extricating the BBC MCR from the 'media' centre garage when, due to weather the championships spilled over to a further Monday? It had been first in, so was blocked by everyone else. My recollection was that the scanner was required to be in Sweden, shortly after Wimbledon. I used to work for HBO, as a PSC unit, and I know that several ex-BBC types were busy for NBC. It was a shame that the Club banished the trucks to an underground garage - it was charming in the old days when a media village was constructed outside the ground. A haven of hospitality! Athough I followed the tennis in the HBO crew room, it was galling that as soon as something exciting? happened, we were dragged out to shoot an interview or voxpop and missed the salient point. I enjoyed the experience of meeting and interviewing the top players - Pete Sampras was a great chap, in no hurry to depart he stayed and chatted to us as we re-set for the next interview. One scary bit - taken up on the Simon crane to full extent, one could not see the arm that was holding up the bucket - felt very unnerving! But I've had my paws on both championship trophys - HBO wanted shots of them on a turntable. At the Eastbourne Ladies Tournament, we were not allowed into the ground, so Nigel, my cameraman knocked on the door of a house immediately opposite the venue, and asked to borrow their garden. $$ changed hands and they were delighted to host Sue Barker and the ladies as they were brought over in turn. Kept feeding us biscuits and tea! The follwing link may be of interest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimbledon_Championships Pat -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jul 12 07:48:05 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 13:48:05 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: As far as vehicle spotting is concerned, the only obviously identified scanner is CMCR11, AKA Lo3. It isn?t sign-written as Lo3 on the side of the cab, which suggests to me that the picture was taken before the Lo(x) designations were introduced, which implies an earlier date than my previous guess. CMCR11 came into service in 1970, so that eliminates dates prior to that. There are two other unidentified Type II scanners. The trailer with the steps down between the first two scanners is the CMCCR ( Colour Central Control Room ). I don?t know when it entered service, but it would have been needed once the OB fleet was colourised around 1970. It had a massive production control room and a sound control room with comprehensive communications facilities. It was used to link up multiple scanners, taking vision and sound feeds from them. The racking of the cameras, vision mixing and audio sub-mixing was mostly done in those scanners. Boards have been put spanning the roof between Lo3 and the CCCR. This would presumably have been to provide shade, or shelter from the rain for people going into the production area. Beyond the last scanner is another older vehicle in the older green livery ( dark grey for those of you viewing in B& W ). It doesn?t have teak strips on the roof or scaffold poles around it, so I don?t think it?s an old colourised scanner such as LO21. My guess is that it might be the FCV ( foreign commentary vehicle ), which was used to mix dozens of foreign commentators, who were sat in commentary boxes overlooking the courts. Obviously a commentary vehicle built in B&W days would still be useable for colour broadcasts, so that might explain the presence of an operational vehicle in the older livery. Next to that, also at right angles are two VT trucks back to back. The black structure top left is the BBC?s temporary studio. Painted black in order to make it as hot and stuffy as possible during a hot summer. Air conditioning was minimal and noisy and was therefore had to be turned off whenever the red light came on. The studio lights chucked out loads of heat to add to the sauna effect. It wasn?t a good place to spend a lot of time in if the weather was hot. Beyond the studio is the rounded roof of another van which looks to be unpainted and might have been left a natural aluminium colour. It probably isn?t a scanner. I would hazard a guess that it might be the support vehicle for the radio camera, or hand held cabled camera. It would have had an engineer working inside, racking the camera and trying to retain his sanity while John Pilblad ran around like a mad thing with the radio camera. There would have been a TA alongside the cameraman carrying the batteries, support equipment and radio transmitting gear. I also spotted the Triumph Herald in the car park, I learned to drive in one. I can?t throw much light on the vintages of the other cars. Between the two Jags on the RHS is a badly parked, or manoeuvring, Commer van. It looks to be in the old green livery and was probably the runabout vehicle used to bring stuff from base to location if we didn?t have the right things on site. One other oddity of Wimbledon was that the Kendal Avenue admin office set up a temporary office adjacent to the scanner compound ( conveniently close to the temporary BBC bar ) so that expenses claims could be dealt with in a timely manner. The ladies of the office also got to enjoy the sun, tennis and bar. For a while there used to be a meeting of the OB retired staff on a given day during Wimbledon fortnight. They would be sent temporary passes for the day, would meet at the bar and catch up with many of the people they used to work with. Inevitably progress ruined all that and modern security arrangements killed off any chance of continuing to do that. Much of what I?ve written is guesswork and others might be able to correct errors and fill in loads of blanks. As I previously mentioned, I seldom worked at Wimbledon, so my recollections of it are vague and I never worked on the CMCCR in any capacity. Alan > On 12 Jul 2022, at 11:13, Pat Heigham wrote: > > ?Hi All, > > Guess I should call this Pat's Tennis Memories: > I might have posed this question before, but does anyone remember the problem of extricating the BBC MCR from the 'media' centre garage when, due to weather > the championships spilled over to a further Monday? It had been first in, so was blocked by everyone else. > My recollection was that the scanner was required to be in Sweden, shortly after Wimbledon. > I used to work for HBO, as a PSC unit, and I know that several ex-BBC types were busy for NBC. > It was a shame that the Club banished the trucks to an underground garage - it was charming in the old days when a media village was constructed outside the ground. > A haven of hospitality! > Athough I followed the tennis in the HBO crew room, it was galling that as soon as something exciting happened, we were dragged out to shoot an interview or voxpop > and missed the salient point. > I enjoyed the experience of meeting and interviewing the top players - Pete Sampras was a great chap, in no hurry to depart he stayed and chatted to us as we re-set for the next interview. > One scary bit - taken up on the Simon crane to full extent, one could not see the arm that was holding up the bucket - felt very unnerving! > But I've had my paws on both championship trophys - HBO wanted shots of them on a turntable. > At the Eastbourne Ladies Tournament, we were not allowed into the ground, so Nigel, my cameraman knocked on the door of a house immediately opposite the venue, and asked to > borrow their garden. $$ changed hands and they were delighted to host Sue Barker and the ladies as they were brought over in turn. Kept feeding us biscuits and tea! > The follwing link may be of interest: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimbledon_Championships > > > Pat > > > > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > From tonycrake at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 08:03:55 2022 From: tonycrake at gmail.com (Tony Crake) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 14:03:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 at 13:48, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > As far as vehicle spotting is concerned, the only obviously identified > scanner is CMCR11, AKA Lo3. It isn?t sign-written as Lo3 on the side of > the cab, which suggests to me that the picture was taken before the Lo(x) > designations were introduced, which implies an earlier date than my > previous guess. CMCR11 came into service in 1970, so that eliminates dates > prior to that. > > There are two other unidentified Type II scanners. The trailer with the > steps down between the first two scanners is the CMCCR ( Colour Central > Control Room ). I don?t know when it entered service, but it would have > been needed once the OB fleet was colourised around 1970. It had a massive > production control room and a sound control room with comprehensive > communications facilities. It was used to link up multiple scanners, taking > vision and sound feeds from them. The racking of the cameras, vision mixing > and audio sub-mixing was mostly done in those scanners. Boards have been > put spanning the roof between Lo3 and the CCCR. This would presumably have > been to provide shade, or shelter from the rain for people going into the > production area. > > Beyond the last scanner is another older vehicle in the older green livery > ( dark grey for those of you viewing in B& W ). It doesn?t have teak strips > on the roof or scaffold poles around it, so I don?t think it?s an old > colourised scanner such as LO21. My guess is that it might be the FCV ( > foreign commentary vehicle ), which was used to mix dozens of foreign > commentators, who were sat in commentary boxes overlooking the courts. > Obviously a commentary vehicle built in B&W days would still be useable > for colour broadcasts, so that might explain the presence of an operational > vehicle in the older livery. > > Next to that, also at right angles are two VT trucks back to back. > > The black structure top left is the BBC?s temporary studio. Painted black > in order to make it as hot and stuffy as possible during a hot summer. Air > conditioning was minimal and noisy and was therefore had to be turned off > whenever the red light came on. The studio lights chucked out loads of heat > to add to the sauna effect. It wasn?t a good place to spend a lot of time > in if the weather was hot. > > Beyond the studio is the rounded roof of another van which looks to be > unpainted and might have been left a natural aluminium colour. It probably > isn?t a scanner. I would hazard a guess that it might be the support > vehicle for the radio camera, or hand held cabled camera. It would have had > an engineer working inside, racking the camera and trying to retain his > sanity while John Pilblad ran around like a mad thing with the radio > camera. There would have been a TA alongside the cameraman carrying the > batteries, support equipment and radio transmitting gear. > > I also spotted the Triumph Herald in the car park, I learned to drive in > one. I can?t throw much light on the vintages of the other cars. Between > the two Jags on the RHS is a badly parked, or manoeuvring, Commer van. It > looks to be in the old green livery and was probably the runabout vehicle > used to bring stuff from base to location if we didn?t have the right > things on site. > > One other oddity of Wimbledon was that the Kendal Avenue admin office set > up a temporary office adjacent to the scanner compound ( conveniently close > to the temporary BBC bar ) so that expenses claims could be dealt with in a > timely manner. The ladies of the office also got to enjoy the sun, tennis > and bar. For a while there used to be a meeting of the OB retired staff > on a given day during Wimbledon fortnight. They would be sent temporary > passes for the day, would meet at the bar and catch up with many of the > people they used to work with. Inevitably progress ruined all that and > modern security arrangements killed off any chance of continuing to do that. > > Much of what I?ve written is guesswork and others might be able to correct > errors and fill in loads of blanks. As I previously mentioned, I seldom > worked at Wimbledon, so my recollections of it are vague and I never worked > on the CMCCR in any capacity. > > Alan > > > > > On 12 Jul 2022, at 11:13, Pat Heigham wrote: > > > > ?Hi All, > > > > Guess I should call this Pat's Tennis Memories: > > I might have posed this question before, but does anyone remember the > problem of extricating the BBC MCR from the 'media' centre garage when, due > to weather > > the championships spilled over to a further Monday? It had been first > in, so was blocked by everyone else. > > My recollection was that the scanner was required to be in Sweden, > shortly after Wimbledon. > > I used to work for HBO, as a PSC unit, and I know that several ex-BBC > types were busy for NBC. > > It was a shame that the Club banished the trucks to an underground > garage - it was charming in the old days when a media village was > constructed outside the ground. > > A haven of hospitality! > > Athough I followed the tennis in the HBO crew room, it was galling that > as soon as something exciting happened, we were dragged out to shoot an > interview or voxpop > > and missed the salient point. > > I enjoyed the experience of meeting and interviewing the top players - > Pete Sampras was a great chap, in no hurry to depart he stayed and chatted > to us as we re-set for the next interview. > > One scary bit - taken up on the Simon crane to full extent, one could > not see the arm that was holding up the bucket - felt very unnerving! > > But I've had my paws on both championship trophys - HBO wanted shots of > them on a turntable. > > At the Eastbourne Ladies Tournament, we were not allowed into the > ground, so Nigel, my cameraman knocked on the door of a house immediately > opposite the venue, and asked to > > borrow their garden. $$ changed hands and they were delighted to host > Sue Barker and the ladies as they were brought over in turn. Kept feeding > us biscuits and tea! > > The follwing link may be of interest: > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimbledon_Championships > > > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > -- > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailma > listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com Tue Jul 12 09:42:18 2022 From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 14:42:18 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> The first times I went to to Wimbledon (After 1968), the main production area was built using the guts of a scanner which was derigged into a large wooden shed. This also contained Harry Carpenter's studio. John Livingston organised it all for sound, with hundreds of cables, converters & odd tin boxes. Eventually, maybe because the new colour CMCCR arrived, we never needed to derig again. I assume this photo is after we'd stopped derigging. I drove a white Triumph 2000 from 1973 to 1976. I think I can see it, or one like it in the car park. I did work a bit at Wimbledon in 1973, 1975 & 1976. Otherwise there aren't many clues in the photo. John Nottage On 12/07/2022 12:48, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > As far as vehicle spotting is concerned, the only obviously identified scanner is CMCR11, AKA Lo3. It isn?t sign-written as Lo3 on the side of the cab, which suggests to me that the picture was taken before the Lo(x) designations were introduced, which implies an earlier date than my previous guess. CMCR11 came into service in 1970, so that eliminates dates prior to that. > > There are two other unidentified Type II scanners. The trailer with the steps down between the first two scanners is the CMCCR ( Colour Central Control Room ). I don?t know when it entered service, but it would have been needed once the OB fleet was colourised around 1970. It had a massive production control room and a sound control room with comprehensive communications facilities. It was used to link up multiple scanners, taking vision and sound feeds from them. The racking of the cameras, vision mixing and audio sub-mixing was mostly done in those scanners. Boards have been put spanning the roof between Lo3 and the CCCR. This would presumably have been to provide shade, or shelter from the rain for people going into the production area. > > Beyond the last scanner is another older vehicle in the older green livery ( dark grey for those of you viewing in B& W ). It doesn?t have teak strips on the roof or scaffold poles around it, so I don?t think it?s an old colourised scanner such as LO21. My guess is that it might be the FCV ( foreign commentary vehicle ), which was used to mix dozens of foreign commentators, who were sat in commentary boxes overlooking the courts. Obviously a commentary vehicle built in B&W days would still be useable for colour broadcasts, so that might explain the presence of an operational vehicle in the older livery. > > Next to that, also at right angles are two VT trucks back to back. > > The black structure top left is the BBC?s temporary studio. Painted black in order to make it as hot and stuffy as possible during a hot summer. Air conditioning was minimal and noisy and was therefore had to be turned off whenever the red light came on. The studio lights chucked out loads of heat to add to the sauna effect. It wasn?t a good place to spend a lot of time in if the weather was hot. > > Beyond the studio is the rounded roof of another van which looks to be unpainted and might have been left a natural aluminium colour. It probably isn?t a scanner. I would hazard a guess that it might be the support vehicle for the radio camera, or hand held cabled camera. It would have had an engineer working inside, racking the camera and trying to retain his sanity while John Pilblad ran around like a mad thing with the radio camera. There would have been a TA alongside the cameraman carrying the batteries, support equipment and radio transmitting gear. > > I also spotted the Triumph Herald in the car park, I learned to drive in one. I can?t throw much light on the vintages of the other cars. Between the two Jags on the RHS is a badly parked, or manoeuvring, Commer van. It looks to be in the old green livery and was probably the runabout vehicle used to bring stuff from base to location if we didn?t have the right things on site. > > One other oddity of Wimbledon was that the Kendal Avenue admin office set up a temporary office adjacent to the scanner compound ( conveniently close to the temporary BBC bar ) so that expenses claims could be dealt with in a timely manner. The ladies of the office also got to enjoy the sun, tennis and bar. For a while there used to be a meeting of the OB retired staff on a given day during Wimbledon fortnight. They would be sent temporary passes for the day, would meet at the bar and catch up with many of the people they used to work with. Inevitably progress ruined all that and modern security arrangements killed off any chance of continuing to do that. > > Much of what I?ve written is guesswork and others might be able to correct errors and fill in loads of blanks. As I previously mentioned, I seldom worked at Wimbledon, so my recollections of it are vague and I never worked on the CMCCR in any capacity. > > Alan > > > >> On 12 Jul 2022, at 11:13, Pat Heigham wrote: >> >> ?Hi All, >> >> Guess I should call this Pat's Tennis Memories: >> I might have posed this question before, but does anyone remember the problem of extricating the BBC MCR from the 'media' centre garage when, due to weather >> the championships spilled over to a further Monday? It had been first in, so was blocked by everyone else. >> My recollection was that the scanner was required to be in Sweden, shortly after Wimbledon. >> I used to work for HBO, as a PSC unit, and I know that several ex-BBC types were busy for NBC. >> It was a shame that the Club banished the trucks to an underground garage - it was charming in the old days when a media village was constructed outside the ground. >> A haven of hospitality! >> Athough I followed the tennis in the HBO crew room, it was galling that as soon as something exciting happened, we were dragged out to shoot an interview or voxpop >> and missed the salient point. >> I enjoyed the experience of meeting and interviewing the top players - Pete Sampras was a great chap, in no hurry to depart he stayed and chatted to us as we re-set for the next interview. >> One scary bit - taken up on the Simon crane to full extent, one could not see the arm that was holding up the bucket - felt very unnerving! >> But I've had my paws on both championship trophys - HBO wanted shots of them on a turntable. >> At the Eastbourne Ladies Tournament, we were not allowed into the ground, so Nigel, my cameraman knocked on the door of a house immediately opposite the venue, and asked to >> borrow their garden. $$ changed hands and they were delighted to host Sue Barker and the ladies as they were brought over in turn. Kept feeding us biscuits and tea! >> The follwing link may be of interest: >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimbledon_Championships >> >> >> Pat >> >> >> >> >> -- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> > From hughsheppard at btinternet.com Tue Jul 12 09:03:09 2022 From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:03:09 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2f22b597-b15f-5f51-66c5-f51ea6c79548@btinternet.com> Hmmm! Alan - about the FCV.? As I recall, the original FCV1 was a trailered control room probably built for the 1966 World Cup and operated at Wembley. Perhaps Malcolm Walker can say - as a bcc.? (At Goodison Park, the Everton ground, we had an 'orrible scratch assembly also for 20 commentators; dismantled afterwards and thankfully never seen again). FCV 2 was a smaller truck for 5 commentators but a fading memory tells me that at Wimbledon both were usually de-rigged into an unlit basement area of the Centre Court for the 23 or 24 commentators in the 70s and 80s. Maybe power supplies and circuits still had to be routed via the FCV's when this picture was taken, with either or both FCV's otherwise empty at the time. With the FCV's replaced by an MICR (mobile international control room) in 1975, I would guess the picture preceded that, but only just. Hugh On 12/07/2022 13:48, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > As far as vehicle spotting is concerned, the only obviously identified scanner is CMCR11, AKA Lo3. It isn?t sign-written as Lo3 on the side of the cab, which suggests to me that the picture was taken before the Lo(x) designations were introduced, which implies an earlier date than my previous guess. CMCR11 came into service in 1970, so that eliminates dates prior to that. > > There are two other unidentified Type II scanners. The trailer with the steps down between the first two scanners is the CMCCR ( Colour Central Control Room ). I don?t know when it entered service, but it would have been needed once the OB fleet was colourised around 1970. It had a massive production control room and a sound control room with comprehensive communications facilities. It was used to link up multiple scanners, taking vision and sound feeds from them. The racking of the cameras, vision mixing and audio sub-mixing was mostly done in those scanners. Boards have been put spanning the roof between Lo3 and the CCCR. This would presumably have been to provide shade, or shelter from the rain for people going into the production area. > > Beyond the last scanner is another older vehicle in the older green livery ( dark grey for those of you viewing in B& W ). It doesn?t have teak strips on the roof or scaffold poles around it, so I don?t think it?s an old colourised scanner such as LO21. My guess is that it might be the FCV ( foreign commentary vehicle ), which was used to mix dozens of foreign commentators, who were sat in commentary boxes overlooking the courts. Obviously a commentary vehicle built in B&W days would still be useable for colour broadcasts, so that might explain the presence of an operational vehicle in the older livery. > > Next to that, also at right angles are two VT trucks back to back. > > The black structure top left is the BBC?s temporary studio. Painted black in order to make it as hot and stuffy as possible during a hot summer. Air conditioning was minimal and noisy and was therefore had to be turned off whenever the red light came on. The studio lights chucked out loads of heat to add to the sauna effect. It wasn?t a good place to spend a lot of time in if the weather was hot. > > Beyond the studio is the rounded roof of another van which looks to be unpainted and might have been left a natural aluminium colour. It probably isn?t a scanner. I would hazard a guess that it might be the support vehicle for the radio camera, or hand held cabled camera. It would have had an engineer working inside, racking the camera and trying to retain his sanity while John Pilblad ran around like a mad thing with the radio camera. There would have been a TA alongside the cameraman carrying the batteries, support equipment and radio transmitting gear. > > I also spotted the Triumph Herald in the car park, I learned to drive in one. I can?t throw much light on the vintages of the other cars. Between the two Jags on the RHS is a badly parked, or manoeuvring, Commer van. It looks to be in the old green livery and was probably the runabout vehicle used to bring stuff from base to location if we didn?t have the right things on site. > > One other oddity of Wimbledon was that the Kendal Avenue admin office set up a temporary office adjacent to the scanner compound ( conveniently close to the temporary BBC bar ) so that expenses claims could be dealt with in a timely manner. The ladies of the office also got to enjoy the sun, tennis and bar. For a while there used to be a meeting of the OB retired staff on a given day during Wimbledon fortnight. They would be sent temporary passes for the day, would meet at the bar and catch up with many of the people they used to work with. Inevitably progress ruined all that and modern security arrangements killed off any chance of continuing to do that. > > Much of what I?ve written is guesswork and others might be able to correct errors and fill in loads of blanks. As I previously mentioned, I seldom worked at Wimbledon, so my recollections of it are vague and I never worked on the CMCCR in any capacity. > > Alan > > > >> On 12 Jul 2022, at 11:13, Pat Heigham wrote: >> >> ?Hi All, >> >> Guess I should call this Pat's Tennis Memories: >> I might have posed this question before, but does anyone remember the problem of extricating the BBC MCR from the 'media' centre garage when, due to weather >> the championships spilled over to a further Monday? It had been first in, so was blocked by everyone else. >> My recollection was that the scanner was required to be in Sweden, shortly after Wimbledon. >> I used to work for HBO, as a PSC unit, and I know that several ex-BBC types were busy for NBC. >> It was a shame that the Club banished the trucks to an underground garage - it was charming in the old days when a media village was constructed outside the ground. >> A haven of hospitality! >> Athough I followed the tennis in the HBO crew room, it was galling that as soon as something exciting happened, we were dragged out to shoot an interview or voxpop >> and missed the salient point. >> I enjoyed the experience of meeting and interviewing the top players - Pete Sampras was a great chap, in no hurry to depart he stayed and chatted to us as we re-set for the next interview. >> One scary bit - taken up on the Simon crane to full extent, one could not see the arm that was holding up the bucket - felt very unnerving! >> But I've had my paws on both championship trophys - HBO wanted shots of them on a turntable. >> At the Eastbourne Ladies Tournament, we were not allowed into the ground, so Nigel, my cameraman knocked on the door of a house immediately opposite the venue, and asked to >> borrow their garden. $$ changed hands and they were delighted to host Sue Barker and the ladies as they were brought over in turn. Kept feeding us biscuits and tea! >> The follwing link may be of interest: >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimbledon_Championships >> >> >> Pat >> >> >> >> >> -- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jul 12 09:07:22 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:07:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> References: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <90437F6A-7593-402C-953D-C24E074C7BB7@me.com> I well remember John Livingstone?s efforts at Wimbledon. He was a stickler for doing things the right way ( some might say over-engineering, but it?s a matter of opinion ) and he would use incredible amounts of equipment lashed together to get the results. He was still using OBA/8 equipment well into the 1970s. That gear was designed for use on radio OBs in the 1940s and used valves. One particular item was the Trap Valve. I?m not sure exactly why it was called that, but in modern terminology we would call it a DA. A big box, maybe 4u of 19? rack provided a four way distribution amplifier and gave off loads of heat. We used towers of them. There were also similarly sized 4 way passive mixers with rotary faders, used for fine adjustment and mixing of feeds. The number of XLR cables needed to patch everything together was insane. Camera vans normally carry boxes containing hundreds of cables of variable lengths and every available extra cable would have been withdrawn from stores, together with any cables that could be taken from any units remaining in base, having sacrificed their camera channels to be installed into the Wimbledon scanners. But we still always ran out of interconnecting cables, especially PO 316 jacks to XLRs which were needed for all that OBA/8 equipment which was built before XLRs were used. Alan > On 12 Jul 2022, at 14:41, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote: > > ?The first times I went to to Wimbledon (After 1968), the main production area was built using the guts of a scanner which was derigged into a large wooden shed. This also contained Harry Carpenter's studio. John Livingston organised it all for sound, with hundreds of cables, converters & odd tin boxes. Eventually, maybe because the new colour CMCCR arrived, we never needed to derig again. I assume this photo is after we'd stopped derigging. > > I drove a white Triumph 2000 from 1973 to 1976. I think I can see it, or one like it in the car park. I did work a bit at Wimbledon in 1973, 1975 & 1976. Otherwise there aren't many clues in the photo. > > John Nottage From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jul 12 09:24:42 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:24:42 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <2f22b597-b15f-5f51-66c5-f51ea6c79548@btinternet.com> References: <2f22b597-b15f-5f51-66c5-f51ea6c79548@btinternet.com> Message-ID: I never got involved with the FCV or MICR, so was only guessing what the vehicle in the old livery might have been. I can?t even remember what the FCV looked like. The thing that works against that theory is that it?s parked in a prime position, which implies it?s fulfilling a crucial role. Another thought was that it might have been something to do with outside court sound mixing. In later years it was done in a portakabin, using an unholy assortment of random mixing desks to generate the different mixes. When I returned to Wimbledon as a supervisor in about 1980, I was shocked at how much of a lash-up it was. In the years prior to that I had done a lot of in house monitor mixes for big music shows and I realised that the task could be greatly simplified by hiring a PA monitor mixing desk. Leigh Osborne was running a PA hire sideline at the time and offered to buy a suitable one and hire it out when needed. It was an excellent solution because we simply fed all the microphones into the mixer and each channel had sixteen ( if I remember right ) aux sends, allowing us to mix any combination of microphones to any of those outputs. As far as Leigh was concerned, it was a brilliant investment. He got his money back many times over and also had a top of the range monitor mixing desk to use on his other side hustles. Alan > On 12 Jul 2022, at 15:03, Hugh Sheppard wrote: > > ? > Hmmm! Alan - about the FCV. As I recall, the original FCV1 was a trailered control room probably built for the 1966 World Cup and operated at Wembley. Perhaps Malcolm Walker can say - as a bcc. (At Goodison Park, the Everton ground, we had an 'orrible scratch assembly also for 20 commentators; dismantled afterwards and thankfully never seen again). FCV 2 was a smaller truck for 5 commentators but a fading memory tells me that at Wimbledon both were usually de-rigged into an unlit basement area of the Centre Court for the 23 or 24 commentators in the 70s and 80s. Maybe power supplies and circuits still had to be routed via the FCV's when this picture was taken, with either or both FCV's otherwise empty at the time. > > With the FCV's replaced by an MICR (mobile international control room) in 1975, I would guess the picture preceded that, but only just. > > Hugh > > > > On 12/07/2022 13:48, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> As far as vehicle spotting is concerned, the only obviously identified scanner is CMCR11, AKA Lo3. It isn?t sign-written as Lo3 on the side of the cab, which suggests to me that the picture was taken before the Lo(x) designations were introduced, which implies an earlier date than my previous guess. CMCR11 came into service in 1970, so that eliminates dates prior to that. >> >> There are two other unidentified Type II scanners. The trailer with the steps down between the first two scanners is the CMCCR ( Colour Central Control Room ). I don?t know when it entered service, but it would have been needed once the OB fleet was colourised around 1970. It had a massive production control room and a sound control room with comprehensive communications facilities. It was used to link up multiple scanners, taking vision and sound feeds from them. The racking of the cameras, vision mixing and audio sub-mixing was mostly done in those scanners. Boards have been put spanning the roof between Lo3 and the CCCR. This would presumably have been to provide shade, or shelter from the rain for people going into the production area. >> >> Beyond the last scanner is another older vehicle in the older green livery ( dark grey for those of you viewing in B& W ). It doesn?t have teak strips on the roof or scaffold poles around it, so I don?t think it?s an old colourised scanner such as LO21. My guess is that it might be the FCV ( foreign commentary vehicle ), which was used to mix dozens of foreign commentators, who were sat in commentary boxes overlooking the courts. Obviously a commentary vehicle built in B&W days would still be useable for colour broadcasts, so that might explain the presence of an operational vehicle in the older livery. >> >> Next to that, also at right angles are two VT trucks back to back. >> >> The black structure top left is the BBC?s temporary studio. Painted black in order to make it as hot and stuffy as possible during a hot summer. Air conditioning was minimal and noisy and was therefore had to be turned off whenever the red light came on. The studio lights chucked out loads of heat to add to the sauna effect. It wasn?t a good place to spend a lot of time in if the weather was hot. >> >> Beyond the studio is the rounded roof of another van which looks to be unpainted and might have been left a natural aluminium colour. It probably isn?t a scanner. I would hazard a guess that it might be the support vehicle for the radio camera, or hand held cabled camera. It would have had an engineer working inside, racking the camera and trying to retain his sanity while John Pilblad ran around like a mad thing with the radio camera. There would have been a TA alongside the cameraman carrying the batteries, support equipment and radio transmitting gear. >> >> I also spotted the Triumph Herald in the car park, I learned to drive in one. I can?t throw much light on the vintages of the other cars. Between the two Jags on the RHS is a badly parked, or manoeuvring, Commer van. It looks to be in the old green livery and was probably the runabout vehicle used to bring stuff from base to location if we didn?t have the right things on site. >> >> One other oddity of Wimbledon was that the Kendal Avenue admin office set up a temporary office adjacent to the scanner compound ( conveniently close to the temporary BBC bar ) so that expenses claims could be dealt with in a timely manner. The ladies of the office also got to enjoy the sun, tennis and bar. For a while there used to be a meeting of the OB retired staff on a given day during Wimbledon fortnight. They would be sent temporary passes for the day, would meet at the bar and catch up with many of the people they used to work with. Inevitably progress ruined all that and modern security arrangements killed off any chance of continuing to do that. >> >> Much of what I?ve written is guesswork and others might be able to correct errors and fill in loads of blanks. As I previously mentioned, I seldom worked at Wimbledon, so my recollections of it are vague and I never worked on the CMCCR in any capacity. >> >> Alan >> >> >> >>> On 12 Jul 2022, at 11:13, Pat Heigham wrote: >>> >>> ?Hi All, >>> >>> Guess I should call this Pat's Tennis Memories: >>> I might have posed this question before, but does anyone remember the problem of extricating the BBC MCR from the 'media' centre garage when, due to weather >>> the championships spilled over to a further Monday? It had been first in, so was blocked by everyone else. >>> My recollection was that the scanner was required to be in Sweden, shortly after Wimbledon. >>> I used to work for HBO, as a PSC unit, and I know that several ex-BBC types were busy for NBC. >>> It was a shame that the Club banished the trucks to an underground garage - it was charming in the old days when a media village was constructed outside the ground. >>> A haven of hospitality! >>> Athough I followed the tennis in the HBO crew room, it was galling that as soon as something exciting happened, we were dragged out to shoot an interview or voxpop >>> and missed the salient point. >>> I enjoyed the experience of meeting and interviewing the top players - Pete Sampras was a great chap, in no hurry to depart he stayed and chatted to us as we re-set for the next interview. >>> One scary bit - taken up on the Simon crane to full extent, one could not see the arm that was holding up the bucket - felt very unnerving! >>> But I've had my paws on both championship trophys - HBO wanted shots of them on a turntable. >>> At the Eastbourne Ladies Tournament, we were not allowed into the ground, so Nigel, my cameraman knocked on the door of a house immediately opposite the venue, and asked to >>> borrow their garden. $$ changed hands and they were delighted to host Sue Barker and the ladies as they were brought over in turn. Kept feeding us biscuits and tea! >>> The follwing link may be of interest: >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimbledon_Championships >>> >>> >>> Pat >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >>> > > Virus-free. www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Tue Jul 12 09:38:50 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:38:50 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <90437F6A-7593-402C-953D-C24E074C7BB7@me.com> References: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> <90437F6A-7593-402C-953D-C24E074C7BB7@me.com> Message-ID: <880a3d39-ab34-2aed-50a8-c62042bbf2ee@chriswoolf.co.uk> On 12/07/2022 15:07, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > ... One particular item was the Trap Valve. I?m not sure exactly why it was called that, It seems to have been a peculiarly BBC naming, and the usual explanation is that it provided isolation of feeds to multiple destinations, while "trapping" (ie preventing) any loading or other faults affecting the source feed. In the bad old days, when sound was still trying to work with constant impedance circuits, such devices - which morphed into distribution amps in later years - were important. Amazing how long it took British broadcasting to move over to constant voltage operation. Chris Woolf From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Tue Jul 12 09:57:13 2022 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:57:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <6C3C268C-996D-40E2-9522-7B210348E419@me.com> References: <0ecfc931-99fb-c214-7d37-c82389b9c91b@howell61.f9.co.uk> <6C3C268C-996D-40E2-9522-7B210348E419@me.com> Message-ID: <84661f50-eece-a3eb-7300-280805b5c87d@howell61.f9.co.uk> For someone who "rarely worked at Wimbledon" you have contributed quite a lot, thanks! At least, unlike me, you could spell it ! Hibou. On 12/07/2022 06:50, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > The best I can offer is a bid for mid 1970s. All the prominent > scanners are Type II scanners. > > There is a bit of an oddity in my OB career in that I rarely worked at > Wimbledon, despite about 90% of the OB fleet and crews taking a three > week residency there every year. Therefore I can?t remember much about > the parking arrangements which might offer further clues. I do > remember that in those days there was usually a marquee nearby with an > unofficial branch of the BBC bar. See, I remember the important stuff. > > The reason I escaped Wimbledon was because during the mid to late > 1970s I worked on Seaside Special and during the 1980s I mostly did drama. > > Alan > > >> On 12 Jul 2022, at 00:46, John Howell via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? >> >> You OB chaps are so knowledgeable about your vehicles, can you tell >> me what year this photograph was taken? I hope that there is enough >> information in the picture for you to make a decision. No prizes but >> I hope it will? provoke some lively discussion. I will reveal the >> answer in a few days time. >> >> >> Hibou. >> >> Wimbledon_19xx 1.jpeg-- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Wimbledon_19xx%201.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 458904 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Tue Jul 12 09:58:18 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:58:18 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> References: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> Message-ID: I was trying to date it by cars in the park. But if they were BBC staff vehicles, not much use. Don't know many who could afford a new car.? On 12/07/2022 15:42, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote: > The first times I went to to Wimbledon (After 1968), the main > production area was built using the guts of a scanner which was > derigged into a large wooden shed. This also contained Harry > Carpenter's studio. John Livingston organised it all for sound, with > hundreds of cables, converters & odd tin boxes. Eventually, maybe > because the new colour CMCCR arrived, we never needed to derig again. > I assume this photo is after we'd stopped derigging. > > I drove a white Triumph 2000 from 1973 to 1976. I think I can see it, > or one like it in the car park. I did work a bit at Wimbledon in 1973, > 1975 & 1976. Otherwise there aren't many clues in the photo. > > John Nottage > > On 12/07/2022 12:48, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> As far as vehicle spotting is concerned, the only obviously >> identified scanner is CMCR11,? AKA Lo3.? It isn?t sign-written as Lo3 >> on the side of the cab, which suggests to me that the picture was >> taken before the Lo(x) designations were introduced, which implies an >> earlier date than my previous guess.? CMCR11 came into service in >> 1970, so that eliminates dates prior to that. >> >> There are two other unidentified Type II scanners. The trailer with >> the steps down between the first two scanners is the CMCCR ( Colour >> Central Control Room ).? I don?t know when it entered service, but it >> would have been needed once the OB fleet was colourised around 1970. >> It had a massive production control room and a sound control room >> with comprehensive communications facilities. It was used to link up >> multiple scanners, taking vision and sound feeds from them. The >> racking of the cameras, vision mixing and audio sub-mixing was mostly >> done in those scanners. Boards have been put spanning the roof >> between Lo3 and the CCCR.? This would presumably have been to provide >> shade, or shelter from the rain for people going into the production >> area. >> >> Beyond the last scanner is another older vehicle in the older green >> livery ( dark grey for those of you viewing in B& W ). It doesn?t >> have teak strips on the roof or scaffold poles around it, so I don?t >> think it?s an old colourised scanner such as LO21.? My guess is that >> it might be the FCV ( foreign commentary vehicle ), which was used to >> mix dozens of foreign commentators, who were sat in commentary boxes >> overlooking the courts. Obviously a commentary vehicle built in B&W >> days would still be useable for colour broadcasts, so that might >> explain the presence of an operational vehicle in the older livery. >> >> Next to that, also at right angles are two VT trucks back to back. >> >> The black structure top left is the BBC?s temporary studio. Painted >> black in order to make it as hot and stuffy as possible during a hot >> summer. Air conditioning was minimal and noisy and was therefore had >> to be turned off whenever the red light came on. The studio lights >> chucked out loads of heat to add to the sauna effect. It wasn?t a >> good place to spend a lot of time in if the weather was hot. >> >> Beyond the studio is the rounded roof of another van which looks to >> be unpainted and might have been left a natural aluminium colour. It >> probably isn?t a scanner.? I would hazard a guess that it might be >> the support vehicle for the radio camera, or hand held cabled camera. >> It would have had an engineer working inside, racking the camera and >> trying to retain his sanity while John Pilblad ran around like a mad >> thing with the radio camera. There would have been a TA alongside the >> cameraman carrying the batteries, support equipment and radio >> transmitting gear. >> >> I also spotted the Triumph Herald in the car park, I learned to drive >> in one.? I can?t throw much light on the vintages of the other cars. >> Between the two Jags on the RHS is a badly parked, or manoeuvring, >> Commer van.? It looks to be in the old green livery and was probably >> the runabout vehicle used to bring stuff from base to location if we >> didn?t have the right things on site. >> >> One other oddity of Wimbledon was that the Kendal Avenue admin office >> set up a temporary office adjacent to the scanner compound ( >> conveniently close to the temporary BBC bar ) so that expenses claims >> could be dealt with in a timely manner.? The ladies of the office >> also got to enjoy the sun, tennis and bar. For a while there used to >> be? a meeting of the OB retired staff on a given day during Wimbledon >> fortnight.? They would be sent temporary passes for the day, would >> meet at the bar and catch up with many of the people they used to >> work with.? Inevitably progress ruined all that and modern security >> arrangements killed off any chance of continuing to do that. >> >> Much of what I?ve written is guesswork and others might be able to >> correct errors and fill in loads of blanks. As I previously >> mentioned, I seldom worked at Wimbledon, so my recollections of it >> are vague and I never worked on the CMCCR in any capacity. >> >> Alan >> >> >> >>> On 12 Jul 2022, at 11:13, Pat Heigham wrote: >>> >>> ?Hi All, >>> >>> Guess I should call this Pat's Tennis Memories: >>> I might have posed this question before, but does anyone remember >>> the problem of extricating the BBC MCR from the 'media' centre >>> garage when, due to weather >>> the championships spilled over to a further Monday? It had been >>> first in, so was blocked by everyone else. >>> My recollection was that the scanner was required to be in Sweden, >>> shortly after Wimbledon. >>> I used to work for HBO, as a PSC unit, and I know that several >>> ex-BBC types were busy for NBC. >>> It was a shame that the Club banished the trucks to an underground >>> garage - it was charming in the old days when a media village was >>> constructed outside the ground. >>> A haven of hospitality! >>> Athough I followed the tennis in the HBO crew room, it was galling >>> that as soon as something exciting? happened, we were dragged out to >>> shoot an interview or voxpop >>> and missed the salient point. >>> I enjoyed the experience of meeting and interviewing the top players >>> - Pete Sampras was a great chap, in no hurry to depart he stayed and >>> chatted to us as we re-set for the next interview. >>> One scary bit - taken up on the Simon crane to full extent, one >>> could not see the arm that was holding up the bucket - felt very >>> unnerving! >>> But I've had my paws on both championship trophys - HBO wanted shots >>> of them on a turntable. >>> At the Eastbourne Ladies Tournament, we were not allowed into the >>> ground, so Nigel, my cameraman knocked on the door of a house >>> immediately opposite the venue, and asked to >>> borrow their garden. $$ changed hands and they were delighted to >>> host Sue Barker and the ladies as they were brought over in turn. >>> Kept feeding us biscuits and tea! >>> The follwing link may be of interest: >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimbledon_Championships >>> >>> >>> Pat >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >>> >> > > -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN From dave at davesound.co.uk Tue Jul 12 10:01:21 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 16:01:21 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <90437F6A-7593-402C-953D-C24E074C7BB7@me.com> References: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> <90437F6A-7593-402C-953D-C24E074C7BB7@me.com> Message-ID: Trap valve, I'd guess, means it allows a flow in one direction but not the other? On 12/07/2022 15:07, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > I well remember John Livingstone?s efforts at Wimbledon. He was a stickler for doing things the right way ( some might say over-engineering, but it?s a matter of opinion ) and he would use incredible amounts of equipment lashed together to get the results. He was still using OBA/8 equipment well into the 1970s. That gear was designed for use on radio OBs in the 1940s and used valves. One particular item was the Trap Valve. I?m not sure exactly why it was called that, but in modern terminology we would call it a DA. A big box, maybe 4u of 19? rack provided a four way distribution amplifier and gave off loads of heat. We used towers of them. There were also similarly sized 4 way passive mixers with rotary faders, used for fine adjustment and mixing of feeds. > > The number of XLR cables needed to patch everything together was insane. Camera vans normally carry boxes containing hundreds of cables of variable lengths and every available extra cable would have been withdrawn from stores, together with any cables that could be taken from any units remaining in base, having sacrificed their camera channels to be installed into the Wimbledon scanners. But we still always ran out of interconnecting cables, especially PO 316 jacks to XLRs which were needed for all that OBA/8 equipment which was built before XLRs were used. > > Alan > >> On 12 Jul 2022, at 14:41, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?The first times I went to to Wimbledon (After 1968), the main production area was built using the guts of a scanner which was derigged into a large wooden shed. This also contained Harry Carpenter's studio. John Livingston organised it all for sound, with hundreds of cables, converters & odd tin boxes. Eventually, maybe because the new colour CMCCR arrived, we never needed to derig again. I assume this photo is after we'd stopped derigging. >> >> I drove a white Triumph 2000 from 1973 to 1976. I think I can see it, or one like it in the car park. I did work a bit at Wimbledon in 1973, 1975 & 1976. Otherwise there aren't many clues in the photo. >> >> John Nottage From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Tue Jul 12 10:26:16 2022 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 16:26:16 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> References: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <80002ccf-33ff-f05a-4d8d-85239864052f@howell61.f9.co.uk> Thanks John, I seem to remember that Pete Tolman the Radio mic king had a slightly unusual Triumph Herald, it was a two door ''estate" what we would nowadays call a Hatchback and it was mid-green. Could that be it top left? Hibou. On 12/07/2022 15:42, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote: > The first times I went to to Wimbledon (After 1968), the main > production area was built using the guts of a scanner which was > derigged into a large wooden shed. This also contained Harry > Carpenter's studio. John Livingston organised it all for sound, with > hundreds of cables, converters & odd tin boxes. Eventually, maybe > because the new colour CMCCR arrived, we never needed to derig again. > I assume this photo is after we'd stopped derigging. > > I drove a white Triumph 2000 from 1973 to 1976. I think I can see it, > or one like it in the car park. I did work a bit at Wimbledon in 1973, > 1975 & 1976. Otherwise there aren't many clues in the photo. > > John Nottage > > On 12/07/2022 12:48, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> As far as vehicle spotting is concerned, the only obviously >> identified scanner is CMCR11,? AKA Lo3.? It isn?t sign-written as Lo3 >> on the side of the cab, which suggests to me that the picture was >> taken before the Lo(x) designations were introduced, which implies an >> earlier date than my previous guess.? CMCR11 came into service in >> 1970, so that eliminates dates prior to that. >> >> There are two other unidentified Type II scanners. The trailer with >> the steps down between the first two scanners is the CMCCR ( Colour >> Central Control Room ).? I don?t know when it entered service, but it >> would have been needed once the OB fleet was colourised around 1970. >> It had a massive production control room and a sound control room >> with comprehensive communications facilities. It was used to link up >> multiple scanners, taking vision and sound feeds from them. The >> racking of the cameras, vision mixing and audio sub-mixing was mostly >> done in those scanners. Boards have been put spanning the roof >> between Lo3 and the CCCR.? This would presumably have been to provide >> shade, or shelter from the rain for people going into the production >> area. >> >> Beyond the last scanner is another older vehicle in the older green >> livery ( dark grey for those of you viewing in B& W ). It doesn?t >> have teak strips on the roof or scaffold poles around it, so I don?t >> think it?s an old colourised scanner such as LO21.? My guess is that >> it might be the FCV ( foreign commentary vehicle ), which was used to >> mix dozens of foreign commentators, who were sat in commentary boxes >> overlooking the courts. Obviously a commentary vehicle built in B&W >> days would still be useable for colour broadcasts, so that might >> explain the presence of an operational vehicle in the older livery. >> >> Next to that, also at right angles are two VT trucks back to back. >> >> The black structure top left is the BBC?s temporary studio. Painted >> black in order to make it as hot and stuffy as possible during a hot >> summer. Air conditioning was minimal and noisy and was therefore had >> to be turned off whenever the red light came on. The studio lights >> chucked out loads of heat to add to the sauna effect. It wasn?t a >> good place to spend a lot of time in if the weather was hot. >> >> Beyond the studio is the rounded roof of another van which looks to >> be unpainted and might have been left a natural aluminium colour. It >> probably isn?t a scanner.? I would hazard a guess that it might be >> the support vehicle for the radio camera, or hand held cabled camera. >> It would have had an engineer working inside, racking the camera and >> trying to retain his sanity while John Pilblad ran around like a mad >> thing with the radio camera. There would have been a TA alongside the >> cameraman carrying the batteries, support equipment and radio >> transmitting gear. >> >> I also spotted the Triumph Herald in the car park, I learned to drive >> in one.? I can?t throw much light on the vintages of the other cars. >> Between the two Jags on the RHS is a badly parked, or manoeuvring, >> Commer van.? It looks to be in the old green livery and was probably >> the runabout vehicle used to bring stuff from base to location if we >> didn?t have the right things on site. >> >> One other oddity of Wimbledon was that the Kendal Avenue admin office >> set up a temporary office adjacent to the scanner compound ( >> conveniently close to the temporary BBC bar ) so that expenses claims >> could be dealt with in a timely manner.? The ladies of the office >> also got to enjoy the sun, tennis and bar. For a while there used to >> be? a meeting of the OB retired staff on a given day during Wimbledon >> fortnight.? They would be sent temporary passes for the day, would >> meet at the bar and catch up with many of the people they used to >> work with.? Inevitably progress ruined all that and modern security >> arrangements killed off any chance of continuing to do that. >> >> Much of what I?ve written is guesswork and others might be able to >> correct errors and fill in loads of blanks. As I previously >> mentioned, I seldom worked at Wimbledon, so my recollections of it >> are vague and I never worked on the CMCCR in any capacity. >> >> Alan >> >> >> >>> On 12 Jul 2022, at 11:13, Pat Heigham wrote: >>> >>> ?Hi All, >>> >>> Guess I should call this Pat's Tennis Memories: >>> I might have posed this question before, but does anyone remember >>> the problem of extricating the BBC MCR from the 'media' centre >>> garage when, due to weather >>> the championships spilled over to a further Monday? It had been >>> first in, so was blocked by everyone else. >>> My recollection was that the scanner was required to be in Sweden, >>> shortly after Wimbledon. >>> I used to work for HBO, as a PSC unit, and I know that several >>> ex-BBC types were busy for NBC. >>> It was a shame that the Club banished the trucks to an underground >>> garage - it was charming in the old days when a media village was >>> constructed outside the ground. >>> A haven of hospitality! >>> Athough I followed the tennis in the HBO crew room, it was galling >>> that as soon as something exciting? happened, we were dragged out to >>> shoot an interview or voxpop >>> and missed the salient point. >>> I enjoyed the experience of meeting and interviewing the top players >>> - Pete Sampras was a great chap, in no hurry to depart he stayed and >>> chatted to us as we re-set for the next interview. >>> One scary bit - taken up on the Simon crane to full extent, one >>> could not see the arm that was holding up the bucket - felt very >>> unnerving! >>> But I've had my paws on both championship trophys - HBO wanted shots >>> of them on a turntable. >>> At the Eastbourne Ladies Tournament, we were not allowed into the >>> ground, so Nigel, my cameraman knocked on the door of a house >>> immediately opposite the venue, and asked to >>> borrow their garden. $$ changed hands and they were delighted to >>> host Sue Barker and the ladies as they were brought over in turn. >>> Kept feeding us biscuits and tea! >>> The follwing link may be of interest: >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimbledon_Championships >>> >>> >>> Pat >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >>> >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 11:07:55 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:07:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <80002ccf-33ff-f05a-4d8d-85239864052f@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> <80002ccf-33ff-f05a-4d8d-85239864052f@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: <753e7db8-0ab0-f35a-aa21-2e39a5db6a03@gmail.com> What I didn't understand about those scanners is why they had to be a solid chunk. Why weren't they articulated? On my tiny trip to OBs we were at Hickstead and the scanner was needed the next day a few miles away. When it wouldn't start they had to get a huge tow truck to move it, instead of just attaching another front B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jul 12 11:58:55 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:58:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <753e7db8-0ab0-f35a-aa21-2e39a5db6a03@gmail.com> References: <753e7db8-0ab0-f35a-aa21-2e39a5db6a03@gmail.com> Message-ID: Modern large scanners are mostly artics. It was sometimes discussed and the reason given was down to fire regulations and road traffic regs at the time. If doing a show at a west end theatre, it would be very convenient to unhitch an article and park it close to other trucks so that you can pack more technology into that finite space. The fire people didn?t like the idea of vehicles parked up in a road without the means to drive away in an emergency. It was also felt that when parked up in base, if there was a fire in the scanner hall, integrated vehicles could be evacuated quickly, while artics would in effect be immovable if the tractor wasn?t already hitched up. I was also told that at the time, that the Type II scanners were the maximum allowable length, width and weight for normal vehicles. The cab wasn?t wasted space. Some equipment racks faced into the cab and the cab had rudimentary talkback facilities allowing it to be used for voice overs or operating a caption scanner. One drawback with an artic is making good use of the space above the hitch. The floor has to be about five feet off the ground and if you?re going to have a working environment with sensible head clearance and space for cabling and ventilation ducts, the vehicle will need to be pretty high and would be unable to get into some venues. It?s also beneficial if the floors of all technical areas are on the same level, so you end up having a scanner with a floor which is high off the ground, usually with large storage lockers underneath. A floor which is five feet clear of the road also needs elaborate steps and platforms to climb up there. Even something as simple as access steps becomes tricky if you park on sloping ground, there is a high kerb or if there are obstructions such as parking meters or lamp posts. It was quite commonplace to park in a London street and not be able to open certain side lockers because parking meters blocked them. The riggers had to jiggle the exact parking position so that all the access doors were clear. They couldn?t always get it right for the side lockers too, therefore if anything might be needed out of the side lockers, it had to be taken out before the vehicle parked up. Modern scanners have mostly opted for artics and expanding sides. On an older scanner, derigging essentially consisted of switching off the gear, unplugging the cables, making it tidy inside, stowing the chairs safe for travelling and then folding up the steps. On modern scanners, you need to do all of those things, but the chairs can?t usually remain inside the expanding area once it?s been collapsed as there isn?t enough space. The internal partitions have to be folded up in an elaborate way, sections of the floor need to be lifted and the steps and platforms needs to be dismantled. In many cases, the entire derig of the OB is complete and back in the tender long before the scanner has been readied for travel. There have been a few examples of scanners getting towed to site due to breakdowns. You can imagine how tricky it is to park a scanner in a confined space. Just imagine trying to do that with a tow truck and having to get the tow truck out too. It?s not as though you can put your shoulder to it and push it into place for the last few feet. Alan > On 12 Jul 2022, at 17:08, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? What I didn't understand about those scanners is why they had to be a solid chunk. Why weren't they articulated? > > On my tiny trip to OBs we were at Hickstead and the scanner was needed the next day a few miles away. When it wouldn't start they had to get a huge tow truck to move it, instead of just attaching another front > > B > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dave at davesound.co.uk Tue Jul 12 12:04:15 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 18:04:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <753e7db8-0ab0-f35a-aa21-2e39a5db6a03@gmail.com> References: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> <80002ccf-33ff-f05a-4d8d-85239864052f@howell61.f9.co.uk> <753e7db8-0ab0-f35a-aa21-2e39a5db6a03@gmail.com> Message-ID: <99fb061f-0930-1e4f-1e92-4d707766f930@davesound.co.uk> Artics take up more space than a rigid vehicle. And have more of a traction problem on a poor surface? On 12/07/2022 17:07, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > What I didn't understand about those scanners is why they had to be a > solid chunk. Why weren't they articulated? > > On my tiny trip to OBs we were at Hickstead and the scanner was needed > the next day a few miles away. When it wouldn't start they had to get > a huge tow truck to move it, instead of just attaching another front > > B > > -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN From bernie833 at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 12:19:18 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 18:19:18 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Webb Telescope pics Message-ID: Have we seen the new pics from the James Webb Telescope, out today? I eventually found the full res ones. If you have a slow connection you'll need to wait a while - https://stsci-opo.org/STScI-01G7DB1FHPMJCCY59CQGZC1YJQ.png The thing that always gets me is that a large number of "objects" in this pic are actually galaxies with millions of stars.? We are very very small. B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Tue Jul 12 12:53:52 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 18:53:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Webb Telescope pics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03591E00E2F64E0294EE3965DD9EC8F9@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Thanks very much for the link Bernie. Haven?t yet seen the HD images but when I looked at the standard issue versions exactly the same thought came to me ? FIVE galaxies in one image! Mind-blowing. Dave Newbitt. From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 6:19 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Webb Telescope pics Have we seen the new pics from the James Webb Telescope, out today? I eventually found the full res ones. If you have a slow connection you'll need to wait a while - https://stsci-opo.org/STScI-01G7DB1FHPMJCCY59CQGZC1YJQ.png The thing that always gets me is that a large number of "objects" in this pic are actually galaxies with millions of stars. We are very very small. B -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoffletch at gmail.com Tue Jul 12 17:35:11 2022 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 23:35:11 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: References: <753e7db8-0ab0-f35a-aa21-2e39a5db6a03@gmail.com> Message-ID: Happened to me when Visions HD3 broke down on the way to Bolton Wanderers FC to cover Sky Footy in April 2006. Had to get a very large wrecker to rescue it and get it to site. Geoff F > On 12 Jul 2022, at 17:58, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > > Modern large scanners are mostly artics. > > It was sometimes discussed and the reason given was down to fire regulations and road traffic regs at the time. If doing a show at a west end theatre, it would be very convenient to unhitch an article and park it close to other trucks so that you can pack more technology into that finite space. The fire people didn?t like the idea of vehicles parked up in a road without the means to drive away in an emergency. > > It was also felt that when parked up in base, if there was a fire in the scanner hall, integrated vehicles could be evacuated quickly, while artics would in effect be immovable if the tractor wasn?t already hitched up. > > I was also told that at the time, that the Type II scanners were the maximum allowable length, width and weight for normal vehicles. The cab wasn?t wasted space. Some equipment racks faced into the cab and the cab had rudimentary talkback facilities allowing it to be used for voice overs or operating a caption scanner. > > One drawback with an artic is making good use of the space above the hitch. The floor has to be about five feet off the ground and if you?re going to have a working environment with sensible head clearance and space for cabling and ventilation ducts, the vehicle will need to be pretty high and would be unable to get into some venues. It?s also beneficial if the floors of all technical areas are on the same level, so you end up having a scanner with a floor which is high off the ground, usually with large storage lockers underneath. A floor which is five feet clear of the road also needs elaborate steps and platforms to climb up there. Even something as simple as access steps becomes tricky if you park on sloping ground, there is a high kerb or if there are obstructions such as parking meters or lamp posts. It was quite commonplace to park in a London street and not be able to open certain side lockers because parking meters blocked them. The riggers had to jiggle the exact parking position so that all the access doors were clear. They couldn?t always get it right for the side lockers too, therefore if anything might be needed out of the side lockers, it had to be taken out before the vehicle parked up. > > Modern scanners have mostly opted for artics and expanding sides. On an older scanner, derigging essentially consisted of switching off the gear, unplugging the cables, making it tidy inside, stowing the chairs safe for travelling and then folding up the steps. > > On modern scanners, you need to do all of those things, but the chairs can?t usually remain inside the expanding area once it?s been collapsed as there isn?t enough space. The internal partitions have to be folded up in an elaborate way, sections of the floor need to be lifted and the steps and platforms needs to be dismantled. In many cases, the entire derig of the OB is complete and back in the tender long before the scanner has been readied for travel. > > There have been a few examples of scanners getting towed to site due to breakdowns. You can imagine how tricky it is to park a scanner in a confined space. Just imagine trying to do that with a tow truck and having to get the tow truck out too. It?s not as though you can put your shoulder to it and push it into place for the last few feet. > > Alan > >> On 12 Jul 2022, at 17:08, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ? What I didn't understand about those scanners is why they had to be a solid chunk. Why weren't they articulated? >> >> On my tiny trip to OBs we were at Hickstead and the scanner was needed the next day a few miles away. When it wouldn't start they had to get a huge tow truck to move it, instead of just attaching another front >> >> B >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 060414 ZD0005TIFMob Me with wrecker & HD3, Bolton Wanderes FC copy.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 101581 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 060414 ZD0007TIFMob Bolton Wanderers FC copy.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 116332 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Wed Jul 13 01:23:07 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 07:23:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86CF9D94-AD85-432C-B964-AA9746271FE9@me.com> Interesting that it was an artic. Any idea why they didn?t get a different tractor to drive it to site? I don?t know much about these things, but assuming the tractor won?t start, wondering how you would remove it from the trailer in order to substitute another. Never thought about that before. I think I still have a video I shot of a giant video screen trailer which had been used decoupled for a week while parked on grass. By the time the show was over, the front wheels had sunk into the grass by a few inches and they couldn?t drive the tractor back under. The driver decided that the only option was to reverse at speed and let kinetic energy do its thing, bouncing the trailer up a little when it made contact. Amazingly it worked, but it looked to be a very high risk option. Alan > On 12 Jul 2022, at 23:35, Geoff Fletcher wrote: > > ?Happened to me when Visions HD3 broke down on the way to Bolton Wanderers FC to cover Sky Footy in April 2006. Had to get a very large wrecker to rescue it and get it to site. > > Geoff F > > > > > > > > >> On 12 Jul 2022, at 17:58, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Modern large scanners are mostly artics. >> >> It was sometimes discussed and the reason given was down to fire regulations and road traffic regs at the time. If doing a show at a west end theatre, it would be very convenient to unhitch an article and park it close to other trucks so that you can pack more technology into that finite space. The fire people didn?t like the idea of vehicles parked up in a road without the means to drive away in an emergency. >> >> It was also felt that when parked up in base, if there was a fire in the scanner hall, integrated vehicles could be evacuated quickly, while artics would in effect be immovable if the tractor wasn?t already hitched up. >> >> I was also told that at the time, that the Type II scanners were the maximum allowable length, width and weight for normal vehicles. The cab wasn?t wasted space. Some equipment racks faced into the cab and the cab had rudimentary talkback facilities allowing it to be used for voice overs or operating a caption scanner. >> >> One drawback with an artic is making good use of the space above the hitch. The floor has to be about five feet off the ground and if you?re going to have a working environment with sensible head clearance and space for cabling and ventilation ducts, the vehicle will need to be pretty high and would be unable to get into some venues. It?s also beneficial if the floors of all technical areas are on the same level, so you end up having a scanner with a floor which is high off the ground, usually with large storage lockers underneath. A floor which is five feet clear of the road also needs elaborate steps and platforms to climb up there. Even something as simple as access steps becomes tricky if you park on sloping ground, there is a high kerb or if there are obstructions such as parking meters or lamp posts. It was quite commonplace to park in a London street and not be able to open certain side lockers because parking meters blocked them. The riggers had to jiggle the exact parking position so that all the access doors were clear. They couldn?t always get it right for the side lockers too, therefore if anything might be needed out of the side lockers, it had to be taken out before the vehicle parked up. >> >> Modern scanners have mostly opted for artics and expanding sides. On an older scanner, derigging essentially consisted of switching off the gear, unplugging the cables, making it tidy inside, stowing the chairs safe for travelling and then folding up the steps. >> >> On modern scanners, you need to do all of those things, but the chairs can?t usually remain inside the expanding area once it?s been collapsed as there isn?t enough space. The internal partitions have to be folded up in an elaborate way, sections of the floor need to be lifted and the steps and platforms needs to be dismantled. In many cases, the entire derig of the OB is complete and back in the tender long before the scanner has been readied for travel. >> >> There have been a few examples of scanners getting towed to site due to breakdowns. You can imagine how tricky it is to park a scanner in a confined space. Just imagine trying to do that with a tow truck and having to get the tow truck out too. It?s not as though you can put your shoulder to it and push it into place for the last few feet. >> >> Alan >> >>> On 12 Jul 2022, at 17:08, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ? What I didn't understand about those scanners is why they had to be a solid chunk. Why weren't they articulated? >>> >>> On my tiny trip to OBs we were at Hickstead and the scanner was needed the next day a few miles away. When it wouldn't start they had to get a huge tow truck to move it, instead of just attaching another front >>> >>> B >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 060414 ZD0005TIFMob Me with wrecker & HD3, Bolton Wanderes FC copy.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 101581 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 060414 ZD0007TIFMob Bolton Wanderers FC copy.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 116332 bytes Desc: not available URL: From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk Wed Jul 13 02:26:53 2022 From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 08:26:53 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx Message-ID: ?I have watched trailers being shunted for carriage on Red Funnel at Cowes. They have been deposited by hauliers who have left them in suitable bays alongside where the cars are lined up so it provides entertainment while you wait. Red Funnel use special tractors with all round visibility from a tiny cab. The driver swings down and locks a pair of legs at the pivoting end of the trailer. He then winds the hand crankable feet just enough to take the weight off the ? fifth wheel ?. A built in jack in other words. These must surely be available on all trailers? Then he disconnects the air and electrical lines and drives the tractor away (or the opposite). Takes just a few minutes to put a trailer on the ferry, jack it up and whizz back for the next one, saving space and presumably carriage costs. I think it mostly applies to regular operations like say Morrisons who can organize themselves to drop off and pick-up their trailers at either end in reasonable time without cluttering the port up. Doesn?t answer the question about replacing a tractor except Why not? Peter Fox On 13 Jul 2022, at 07:23, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: ? Interesting that it was an artic. Any idea why they didn?t get a different tractor to drive it to site? I don?t know much about these things, but assuming the tractor won?t start, wondering how you would remove it from the trailer in order to substitute another. Never thought about that before. I think I still have a video I shot of a giant video screen trailer which had been used decoupled for a week while parked on grass. By the time the show was over, the front wheels had sunk into the grass by a few inches and they couldn?t drive the tractor back under. The driver decided that the only option was to reverse at speed and let kinetic energy do its thing, bouncing the trailer up a little when it made contact. Amazingly it worked, but it looked to be a very high risk option. Alan > On 12 Jul 2022, at 23:35, Geoff Fletcher wrote: > ?Happened to me when Visions HD3 broke down on the way to Bolton Wanderers FC to cover Sky Footy in April 2006. Had to get a very large wrecker to rescue it and get it to site. > > Geoff F > > > > > > > > >> On 12 Jul 2022, at 17:58, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Modern large scanners are mostly artics. >> >> It was sometimes discussed and the reason given was down to fire regulations and road traffic regs at the time. If doing a show at a west end theatre, it would be very convenient to unhitch an article and park it close to other trucks so that you can pack more technology into that finite space. The fire people didn?t like the idea of vehicles parked up in a road without the means to drive away in an emergency. >> >> It was also felt that when parked up in base, if there was a fire in the scanner hall, integrated vehicles could be evacuated quickly, while artics would in effect be immovable if the tractor wasn?t already hitched up. >> >> I was also told that at the time, that the Type II scanners were the maximum allowable length, width and weight for normal vehicles. The cab wasn?t wasted space. Some equipment racks faced into the cab and the cab had rudimentary talkback facilities allowing it to be used for voice overs or operating a caption scanner. >> >> One drawback with an artic is making good use of the space above the hitch. The floor has to be about five feet off the ground and if you?re going to have a working environment with sensible head clearance and space for cabling and ventilation ducts, the vehicle will need to be pretty high and would be unable to get into some venues. It?s also beneficial if the floors of all technical areas are on the same level, so you end up having a scanner with a floor which is high off the ground, usually with large storage lockers underneath. A floor which is five feet clear of the road also needs elaborate steps and platforms to climb up there. Even something as simple as access steps becomes tricky if you park on sloping ground, there is a high kerb or if there are obstructions such as parking meters or lamp posts It was quite commonplace to park in a London street and not be able to open certain side lockers because parking meters blocked them. The riggers had to jiggle the exact parking position so that all the access doors were clear. They couldn?t always get it right for the side lockers too, therefore if anything might be needed out of the side lockers, it had to be taken out before the vehicle parked up. >> >> Modern scanners have mostly opted for artics and expanding sides. On an older scanner, derigging essentially consisted of switching off the gear, unplugging the cables, making it tidy inside, stowing the chairs safe for travelling and then folding up the steps. >> >> On modern scanners, you need to do all of those things, but the chairs can?t usually remain inside the expanding area once it?s been collapsed as there isn?t enough space. The internal partitions have to be folded up in an elaborate way, sections of the floor need to be lifted and the steps and platforms needs to be dismantled. In many cases, the entire derig of the OB is complete and back in the tender long before the scanner has been readied for travel. >> >> There have been a few examples of scanners getting towed to site due to breakdowns. You can imagine how tricky it is to park a scanner in a confined space. Just imagine trying to do that with a tow truck and having to get the tow truck out too. It?s not as though you can put your shoulder to it and push it into place for the last few feet. >> >> Alan >> >>> On 12 Jul 2022, at 17:08, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ? What I didn't understand about those scanners is why they had to be a solid chunk. Why weren't they articulated? >>> >>> On my tiny trip to OBs we were at Hickstead and the scanner was needed the next day a few miles away. When it wouldn't start they had to get a huge tow truck to move it, instead of just attaching another front >>> >>> B >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 060414 ZD0005TIFMob Me with wrecker & HD3, Bolton Wanderes FC copy.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 101581 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 060414 ZD0007TIFMob Bolton Wanderers FC copy.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 116332 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com Wed Jul 13 04:54:48 2022 From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 09:54:48 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <80002ccf-33ff-f05a-4d8d-85239864052f@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> <80002ccf-33ff-f05a-4d8d-85239864052f@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: I got Pete Tolman's job after he was killed in a car crash with his wife (& child?). I seem to remember he was driving his Triumph which I'm sure was a 2 seater Spitfire. I got the job (SA1) in 1973, so Pete must have died 72/73. John On 12/07/2022 15:26, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > Thanks John, > > I seem to remember that Pete Tolman the Radio mic king had a slightly > unusual Triumph Herald, it was a two door ''estate" what we would > nowadays call a Hatchback and it was mid-green. Could that be it top left? > > Hibou. > > > > On 12/07/2022 15:42, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote: >> The first times I went to to Wimbledon (After 1968), the main >> production area was built using the guts of a scanner which was >> derigged into a large wooden shed. This also contained Harry >> Carpenter's studio. John Livingston organised it all for sound, with >> hundreds of cables, converters & odd tin boxes. Eventually, maybe >> because the new colour CMCCR arrived, we never needed to derig again. >> I assume this photo is after we'd stopped derigging. >> >> I drove a white Triumph 2000 from 1973 to 1976. I think I can see it, >> or one like it in the car park. I did work a bit at Wimbledon in 1973, >> 1975 & 1976. Otherwise there aren't many clues in the photo. >> >> John Nottage >> >> On 12/07/2022 12:48, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>> As far as vehicle spotting is concerned, the only obviously >>> identified scanner is CMCR11,? AKA Lo3.? It isn?t sign-written as Lo3 >>> on the side of the cab, which suggests to me that the picture was >>> taken before the Lo(x) designations were introduced, which implies an >>> earlier date than my previous guess.? CMCR11 came into service in >>> 1970, so that eliminates dates prior to that. >>> >>> There are two other unidentified Type II scanners. The trailer with >>> the steps down between the first two scanners is the CMCCR ( Colour >>> Central Control Room ).? I don?t know when it entered service, but it >>> would have been needed once the OB fleet was colourised around 1970. >>> It had a massive production control room and a sound control room >>> with comprehensive communications facilities. It was used to link up >>> multiple scanners, taking vision and sound feeds from them. The >>> racking of the cameras, vision mixing and audio sub-mixing was mostly >>> done in those scanners. Boards have been put spanning the roof >>> between Lo3 and the CCCR.? This would presumably have been to provide >>> shade, or shelter from the rain for people going into the production >>> area. >>> >>> Beyond the last scanner is another older vehicle in the older green >>> livery ( dark grey for those of you viewing in B& W ). It doesn?t >>> have teak strips on the roof or scaffold poles around it, so I don?t >>> think it?s an old colourised scanner such as LO21.? My guess is that >>> it might be the FCV ( foreign commentary vehicle ), which was used to >>> mix dozens of foreign commentators, who were sat in commentary boxes >>> overlooking the courts. Obviously a commentary vehicle built in B&W >>> days would still be useable for colour broadcasts, so that might >>> explain the presence of an operational vehicle in the older livery. >>> >>> Next to that, also at right angles are two VT trucks back to back. >>> >>> The black structure top left is the BBC?s temporary studio. Painted >>> black in order to make it as hot and stuffy as possible during a hot >>> summer. Air conditioning was minimal and noisy and was therefore had >>> to be turned off whenever the red light came on. The studio lights >>> chucked out loads of heat to add to the sauna effect. It wasn?t a >>> good place to spend a lot of time in if the weather was hot. >>> >>> Beyond the studio is the rounded roof of another van which looks to >>> be unpainted and might have been left a natural aluminium colour. It >>> probably isn?t a scanner.? I would hazard a guess that it might be >>> the support vehicle for the radio camera, or hand held cabled camera. >>> It would have had an engineer working inside, racking the camera and >>> trying to retain his sanity while John Pilblad ran around like a mad >>> thing with the radio camera. There would have been a TA alongside the >>> cameraman carrying the batteries, support equipment and radio >>> transmitting gear. >>> >>> I also spotted the Triumph Herald in the car park, I learned to drive >>> in one.? I can?t throw much light on the vintages of the other cars. >>> Between the two Jags on the RHS is a badly parked, or manoeuvring, >>> Commer van.? It looks to be in the old green livery and was probably >>> the runabout vehicle used to bring stuff from base to location if we >>> didn?t have the right things on site. >>> >>> One other oddity of Wimbledon was that the Kendal Avenue admin office >>> set up a temporary office adjacent to the scanner compound ( >>> conveniently close to the temporary BBC bar ) so that expenses claims >>> could be dealt with in a timely manner.? The ladies of the office >>> also got to enjoy the sun, tennis and bar. For a while there used to >>> be? a meeting of the OB retired staff on a given day during Wimbledon >>> fortnight.? They would be sent temporary passes for the day, would >>> meet at the bar and catch up with many of the people they used to >>> work with.? Inevitably progress ruined all that and modern security >>> arrangements killed off any chance of continuing to do that. >>> >>> Much of what I?ve written is guesswork and others might be able to >>> correct errors and fill in loads of blanks. As I previously >>> mentioned, I seldom worked at Wimbledon, so my recollections of it >>> are vague and I never worked on the CMCCR in any capacity. >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 12 Jul 2022, at 11:13, Pat Heigham wrote: >>>> >>>> ?Hi All, >>>> >>>> Guess I should call this Pat's Tennis Memories: >>>> I might have posed this question before, but does anyone remember >>>> the problem of extricating the BBC MCR from the 'media' centre >>>> garage when, due to weather >>>> the championships spilled over to a further Monday? It had been >>>> first in, so was blocked by everyone else. >>>> My recollection was that the scanner was required to be in Sweden, >>>> shortly after Wimbledon. >>>> I used to work for HBO, as a PSC unit, and I know that several >>>> ex-BBC types were busy for NBC. >>>> It was a shame that the Club banished the trucks to an underground >>>> garage - it was charming in the old days when a media village was >>>> constructed outside the ground. >>>> A haven of hospitality! >>>> Athough I followed the tennis in the HBO crew room, it was galling >>>> that as soon as something exciting? happened, we were dragged out to >>>> shoot an interview or voxpop >>>> and missed the salient point. >>>> I enjoyed the experience of meeting and interviewing the top players >>>> - Pete Sampras was a great chap, in no hurry to depart he stayed and >>>> chatted to us as we re-set for the next interview. >>>> One scary bit - taken up on the Simon crane to full extent, one >>>> could not see the arm that was holding up the bucket - felt very >>>> unnerving! >>>> But I've had my paws on both championship trophys - HBO wanted shots >>>> of them on a turntable. >>>> At the Eastbourne Ladies Tournament, we were not allowed into the >>>> ground, so Nigel, my cameraman knocked on the door of a house >>>> immediately opposite the venue, and asked to >>>> borrow their garden. $$ changed hands and they were delighted to >>>> host Sue Barker and the ladies as they were brought over in turn. >>>> Kept feeding us biscuits and tea! >>>> The follwing link may be of interest: >>>> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wimbledon_Championships >>>> >>>> >>>> Pat >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >>>> >>> >> >> > From geoffletch at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 08:43:54 2022 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 14:43:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <86CF9D94-AD85-432C-B964-AA9746271FE9@me.com> References: <86CF9D94-AD85-432C-B964-AA9746271FE9@me.com> Message-ID: <8116FFD7-A29A-4897-876D-CBB391214BE2@gmail.com> Hi Alan, I found my OB Report for that Bolton match in my files. Here it is, just for your interest. Visions Unit Managers were required to provide a written report to base Section Heads and our CEO asap after every OB. Geoff F > On 13 Jul 2022, at 07:23, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > > Interesting that it was an artic. Any idea why they didn?t get a different tractor to drive it to site? > > I don?t know much about these things, but assuming the tractor won?t start, wondering how you would remove it from the trailer in order to substitute another. Never thought about that before. > > I think I still have a video I shot of a giant video screen trailer which had been used decoupled for a week while parked on grass. By the time the show was over, the front wheels had sunk into the grass by a few inches and they couldn?t drive the tractor back under. The driver decided that the only option was to reverse at speed and let kinetic energy do its thing, bouncing the trailer up a little when it made contact. Amazingly it worked, but it looked to be a very high risk option. > > Alan > > >> On 12 Jul 2022, at 23:35, Geoff Fletcher > wrote: >> >> ?Happened to me when Visions HD3 broke down on the way to Bolton Wanderers FC to cover Sky Footy in April 2006. Had to get a very large wrecker to rescue it and get it to site. >> >> Geoff F >> >> <060414 ZD0005TIFMob Me with wrecker & HD3, Bolton Wanderes FC copy.jpeg><060414 ZD0007TIFMob Bolton Wanderers FC copy.jpeg> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 12 Jul 2022, at 17:58, Alan Taylor via Tech1 > wrote: >>> >>> Modern large scanners are mostly artics. >>> >>> It was sometimes discussed and the reason given was down to fire regulations and road traffic regs at the time. If doing a show at a west end theatre, it would be very convenient to unhitch an article and park it close to other trucks so that you can pack more technology into that finite space. The fire people didn?t like the idea of vehicles parked up in a road without the means to drive away in an emergency. >>> >>> It was also felt that when parked up in base, if there was a fire in the scanner hall, integrated vehicles could be evacuated quickly, while artics would in effect be immovable if the tractor wasn?t already hitched up. >>> >>> I was also told that at the time, that the Type II scanners were the maximum allowable length, width and weight for normal vehicles. The cab wasn?t wasted space. Some equipment racks faced into the cab and the cab had rudimentary talkback facilities allowing it to be used for voice overs or operating a caption scanner. >>> >>> One drawback with an artic is making good use of the space above the hitch. The floor has to be about five feet off the ground and if you?re going to have a working environment with sensible head clearance and space for cabling and ventilation ducts, the vehicle will need to be pretty high and would be unable to get into some venues. It?s also beneficial if the floors of all technical areas are on the same level, so you end up having a scanner with a floor which is high off the ground, usually with large storage lockers underneath. A floor which is five feet clear of the road also needs elaborate steps and platforms to climb up there. Even something as simple as access steps becomes tricky if you park on sloping ground, there is a high kerb or if there are obstructions such as parking meters or lamp posts. It was quite commonplace to park in a London street and not be able to open certain side lockers because parking meters blocked them. The riggers had to jiggle the exact parking position so that all the access doors were clear. They couldn?t always get it right for the side lockers too, therefore if anything might be needed out of the side lockers, it had to be taken out before the vehicle parked up. >>> >>> Modern scanners have mostly opted for artics and expanding sides. On an older scanner, derigging essentially consisted of switching off the gear, unplugging the cables, making it tidy inside, stowing the chairs safe for travelling and then folding up the steps. >>> >>> On modern scanners, you need to do all of those things, but the chairs can?t usually remain inside the expanding area once it?s been collapsed as there isn?t enough space. The internal partitions have to be folded up in an elaborate way, sections of the floor need to be lifted and the steps and platforms needs to be dismantled. In many cases, the entire derig of the OB is complete and back in the tender long before the scanner has been readied for travel. >>> >>> There have been a few examples of scanners getting towed to site due to breakdowns. You can imagine how tricky it is to park a scanner in a confined space. Just imagine trying to do that with a tow truck and having to get the tow truck out too. It?s not as though you can put your shoulder to it and push it into place for the last few feet. >>> >>> Alan >>> >>>> On 12 Jul 2022, at 17:08, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > wrote: >>>> >>>> ? What I didn't understand about those scanners is why they had to be a solid chunk. Why weren't they articulated? >>>> >>>> On my tiny trip to OBs we were at Hickstead and the scanner was needed the next day a few miles away. When it wouldn't start they had to get a huge tow truck to move it, instead of just attaching another front >>>> >>>> B >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: OB Report.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 430830 bytes Desc: not available URL: From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Wed Jul 13 15:35:10 2022 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 21:35:10 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: References: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> <80002ccf-33ff-f05a-4d8d-85239864052f@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: ?? I think all of you are on the right track, I can reveal that I took the picture on either 30th June or 1st July *1971.* I was on Sound Training Course No 12 and we got to mixing several matches. What I _cannot_ reveal is where I was standing to get the shot. It must have been near the studio, we had just interviewed? Evonne (Goolagong) Cawley, and you are right it was unbearably hot. Scan of pass attached. I'm not sure you could get two adults and a baby in a 2 seater Spitfire. Hibou. On 13/07/2022 10:54, John Nottage wrote: > I got Pete Tolman's job after he was killed in a car crash with his > wife (& child?). I seem to remember he was driving his Triumph which > I'm sure was a 2 seater Spitfire. I got the job (SA1) in 1973, so Pete > must have died 72/73. > > John > > On 12/07/2022 15:26, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >> Thanks John, >> >> I seem to remember that Pete Tolman the Radio mic king had a slightly >> unusual Triumph Herald, it was a two door ''estate" what we would >> nowadays call a Hatchback and it was mid-green. Could that be it top >> left? >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Wimbledon_1971.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 348304 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Wed Jul 13 15:48:02 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 21:48:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <753e7db8-0ab0-f35a-aa21-2e39a5db6a03@gmail.com> References: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> <80002ccf-33ff-f05a-4d8d-85239864052f@howell61.f9.co.uk> <753e7db8-0ab0-f35a-aa21-2e39a5db6a03@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8b336512-0077-61f6-9487-7f70ca26c3be@btinternet.com> My very first Wimbledoom after joining OBs from TVC must have been in 1981'ish. The vehicles were parked in a grassy area across the roadway from No.1 Court. For the first time ever a large space had been made available under the audience seating and a Control Room was built in there by de-rigging the old CMCCR, rack by rack and bay by bay. The problem was that after the program ceased we had to restore the truck to a working order to travel overnight to St.Andrews for the Open Golf! It was pouring with rain (of course!) bu we made it and the next day we all travelled northwards! Next problem, no real ale in St.Andrews! Another story to follow I expect! Cheers, Dave From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Wed Jul 13 15:50:59 2022 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 21:50:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: References: <7dc3c8a6-f86f-45ed-e39c-7cc8ff17771c@googlemail.com> <80002ccf-33ff-f05a-4d8d-85239864052f@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: <52d4f55b-6ff5-800e-8ec0-93c6f434ff37@howell61.f9.co.uk> Dunno where my scan got to! Attached again....... Hibou -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Wimbledon_1971.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 348304 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alawrance1 at me.com Wed Jul 13 16:35:52 2022 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 22:35:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There was an official Triumph Herald van called the 'Courier', and I suspect that there were window conversion kits, as the van, being commercial, was free of purchase tax. As a car, purchase tax would apply, although I don't know the rate. Alasdair Lawrance Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > On 13 Jul 2022, at 21:35, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > I think all of you are on the right track, I can reveal that I took the picture on either 30th June or 1st July > > 1971. > > I was on Sound Training Course No 12 and we got to mixing several matches. What I cannot reveal is where I was standing to get the shot. It must have been near the studio, we had just interviewed Evonne (Goolagong) Cawley, and you are right it was unbearably hot. Scan of pass attached. > > I'm not sure you could get two adults and a baby in a 2 seater Spitfire. > > > > Hibou. > > > > > > On 13/07/2022 10:54, John Nottage wrote: >> I got Pete Tolman's job after he was killed in a car crash with his wife (& child?). I seem to remember he was driving his Triumph which I'm sure was a 2 seater Spitfire. I got the job (SA1) in 1973, so Pete must have died 72/73. >> >> John >> >> On 12/07/2022 15:26, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >>> Thanks John, >>> >>> I seem to remember that Pete Tolman the Radio mic king had a slightly unusual Triumph Herald, it was a two door ''estate" what we would nowadays call a Hatchback and it was mid-green. Could that be it top left? >>> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Wimbledon_1971.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 348304 bytes Desc: not available URL: From phider at gmx.com Thu Jul 14 02:07:27 2022 From: phider at gmx.com (phider) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 08:07:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1M42jK-1oBswb2Hz6-0002WU@mail.gmx.net> I don't have any photos but my 3 sons aged 3, 5 and 6 years frequently travelled in the back seat of my Mk 1 Spitfire in the late '70s. A big advantage was they didn't have room to fight.It was a really enjoyable car to own and a sad day when it died of terminal MOT failure. Even my teeth rattled when I got it to do 100 mph on one occasion!Peter HiderSent from my Galaxy -------- Original message --------From: John Howell via Tech1 Date: 13/07/2022 21:35 (GMT+00:00) To: John Nottage Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx ?? I think all of you are on the right track, I can reveal that I took the picture on either 30th June or 1st July 1971. I was on Sound Training Course No 12 and we got to mixing several matches. What I cannot reveal is where I was standing to get the shot. It must have been near the studio, we had just interviewed? Evonne (Goolagong) Cawley, and you are right it was unbearably hot. Scan of pass attached. I'm not sure you could get two adults and a baby in a 2 seater Spitfire. Hibou. On 13/07/2022 10:54, John Nottage wrote: I got Pete Tolman's job after he was killed in a car crash with his wife (& child?). I seem to remember he was driving his Triumph which I'm sure was a 2 seater Spitfire. I got the job (SA1) in 1973, so Pete must have died 72/73. John On 12/07/2022 15:26, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Thanks John, I seem to remember that Pete Tolman the Radio mic king had a slightly unusual Triumph Herald, it was a two door ''estate" what we would nowadays call a Hatchback and it was mid-green. Could that be it top left? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com Thu Jul 14 03:44:18 2022 From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 08:44:18 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <1M42jK-1oBswb2Hz6-0002WU@mail.gmx.net> References: <1M42jK-1oBswb2Hz6-0002WU@mail.gmx.net> Message-ID: 1971 is a missing diary, along with 1970, so I've no idea if I was there then. Pete certainly drove a Spitfire. I'm sure he had a very young daughter, & they were all lost in the crash - on the way back from his father's funeral I think. Not many regulations about children in cars in those days either. In 1971 I was driving my rotting but fun Vitesse convertible - British Racing Green with a yellow side stripe. No sign of it in the car park... John On 14/07/2022 07:07, phider wrote: > I don't have any photos but my 3 sons aged 3, 5 and 6 years frequently > travelled in the back seat of my Mk 1 Spitfire in the late '70s. A big > advantage was they didn't have room to fight. > It was a really enjoyable car to own and a sad day when it died of > terminal MOT failure. Even my teeth rattled when I got it to do 100 mph > on one occasion! > > Peter Hider > > > Sent from my Galaxy > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: John Howell via Tech1 > Date: 13/07/2022 21:35 (GMT+00:00) > To: John Nottage > Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx > > ?? I think all of you are on the right track, I can reveal that I took > the picture on either 30th June or 1st July > > *1971.* > > I was on Sound Training Course No 12 and we got to mixing several > matches. What I _cannot_ reveal is where I was standing to get the shot. > It must have been near the studio, we had just interviewed? Evonne > (Goolagong) Cawley, and you are right it was unbearably hot. Scan of > pass attached. > > I'm not sure you could get two adults and a baby in a 2 seater Spitfire. > > > Hibou. > > > > On 13/07/2022 10:54, John Nottage wrote: >> I got Pete Tolman's job after he was killed in a car crash with his >> wife (& child?). I seem to remember he was driving his Triumph which >> I'm sure was a 2 seater Spitfire. I got the job (SA1) in 1973, so Pete >> must have died 72/73. >> >> John >> >> On 12/07/2022 15:26, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >>> Thanks John, >>> >>> I seem to remember that Pete Tolman the Radio mic king had a slightly >>> unusual Triumph Herald, it was a two door ''estate" what we would >>> nowadays call a Hatchback and it was mid-green. Could that be it top >>> left? >>> From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Thu Jul 14 02:57:29 2022 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 08:57:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <1M42jK-1oBswb2Hz6-0002WU@mail.gmx.net> References: <1M42jK-1oBswb2Hz6-0002WU@mail.gmx.net> Message-ID: <4439A3E5-B224-47B2-9C84-99A4C962BEAD@howell61.f9.co.uk> Yes it was a fun car, I have memories of sitting on a front wheel opposite my flatmate balancing the SU carbs on his Mk III. We fitted a motorcycle silencer from my Scott, sounded great but attracted too much attention! Hibou. > On 14 Jul 2022, at 08:07, phider wrote: > > I don't have any photos but my 3 sons aged 3, 5 and 6 years frequently travelled in the back seat of my Mk 1 Spitfire in the late '70s. A big advantage was they didn't have room to fight. > It was a really enjoyable car to own and a sad day when it died of terminal MOT failure. Even my teeth rattled when I got it to do 100 mph on one occasion! > > Peter Hider > > > Sent from my Galaxy > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: John Howell via Tech1 > Date: 13/07/2022 21:35 (GMT+00:00) > To: John Nottage > Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx > > I think all of you are on the right track, I can reveal that I took the picture on either 30th June or 1st July > > 1971. > > I was on Sound Training Course No 12 and we got to mixing several matches. What I cannot reveal is where I was standing to get the shot. It must have been near the studio, we had just interviewed Evonne (Goolagong) Cawley, and you are right it was unbearably hot. Scan of pass attached. > > I'm not sure you could get two adults and a baby in a 2 seater Spitfire. > > > > Hibou. > > > > > >> On 13/07/2022 10:54, John Nottage wrote: >> I got Pete Tolman's job after he was killed in a car crash with his wife (& child?). I seem to remember he was driving his Triumph which I'm sure was a 2 seater Spitfire. I got the job (SA1) in 1973, so Pete must have died 72/73. >> >> John >> >>> On 12/07/2022 15:26, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >>> Thanks John, >>> >>> I seem to remember that Pete Tolman the Radio mic king had a slightly unusual Triumph Herald, it was a two door ''estate" what we would nowadays call a Hatchback and it was mid-green. Could that be it top left? >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Thu Jul 14 03:16:17 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 09:16:17 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: References: <1M42jK-1oBswb2Hz6-0002WU@mail.gmx.net> Message-ID: <58835F24524E4B3BB64DA467A40237F3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> In 1963 I had a Herald convertible, then in 1965 a Spitfire MkII. The rear suspension on both was a transverse leaf clamped to the top of the differential which arrangement resulted in changing rear wheel camber angle with vertical suspension movement. The static setting on the Herald was positive camber, on the Spitfire it was negative. This arrangement was not without its problems. Cornering at high speed would induce in the case of the Spitfire a progressive change from negative towards positive camber on the outside wheel, and if this progressed to a significant positive value, the car would break away into incredibly sudden and violent oversteer which you would have precious little chance of 'catching'. I have obviously no idea what tragic events caused the sad loss of Pete & family - it seems unlikely with a child on board he would have been overdoing it but seeing mention of the cars again reminded me of the car's potential for accident. Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: John Nottage via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 9:44 AM To: phider ; John Howell Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx 1971 is a missing diary, along with 1970, so I've no idea if I was there then. Pete certainly drove a Spitfire. I'm sure he had a very young daughter, & they were all lost in the crash - on the way back from his father's funeral I think. Not many regulations about children in cars in those days either. In 1971 I was driving my rotting but fun Vitesse convertible - British Racing Green with a yellow side stripe. No sign of it in the car park... John On 14/07/2022 07:07, phider wrote: > I don't have any photos but my 3 sons aged 3, 5 and 6 years frequently > travelled in the back seat of my Mk 1 Spitfire in the late '70s. A big > advantage was they didn't have room to fight. > It was a really enjoyable car to own and a sad day when it died of > terminal MOT failure. Even my teeth rattled when I got it to do 100 mph on > one occasion! > > Peter Hider > > > Sent from my Galaxy > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: John Howell via Tech1 > Date: 13/07/2022 21:35 (GMT+00:00) > To: John Nottage > Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx > > I think all of you are on the right track, I can reveal that I took > the picture on either 30th June or 1st July > > *1971.* > > I was on Sound Training Course No 12 and we got to mixing several matches. > What I _cannot_ reveal is where I was standing to get the shot. It must > have been near the studio, we had just interviewed Evonne (Goolagong) > Cawley, and you are right it was unbearably hot. Scan of pass attached. > > I'm not sure you could get two adults and a baby in a 2 seater Spitfire. > > > Hibou. > > > > On 13/07/2022 10:54, John Nottage wrote: >> I got Pete Tolman's job after he was killed in a car crash with his wife >> (& child?). I seem to remember he was driving his Triumph which I'm sure >> was a 2 seater Spitfire. I got the job (SA1) in 1973, so Pete must have >> died 72/73. >> >> John >> >> On 12/07/2022 15:26, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >>> Thanks John, >>> >>> I seem to remember that Pete Tolman the Radio mic king had a slightly >>> unusual Triumph Herald, it was a two door ''estate" what we would >>> nowadays call a Hatchback and it was mid-green. Could that be it top >>> left? >>> -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com Thu Jul 14 04:45:49 2022 From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 09:45:49 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <58835F24524E4B3BB64DA467A40237F3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <1M42jK-1oBswb2Hz6-0002WU@mail.gmx.net> <58835F24524E4B3BB64DA467A40237F3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <6ea5356f-5877-d0f5-6c43-39c41611bd82@googlemail.com> The Vitesse rear suspension was the same as the Herald. However, there was a mod I did: it involved taking the transverse spring apart, turning leaf 4 or 5 upside down, then clamping the whole lot together again. The result was negative camber & a nearly solid rear spring: a hard ride, but great for cornering! John On 14/07/2022 08:16, David Newbitt wrote: > In 1963 I had a Herald convertible, then in 1965? a Spitfire MkII. The > rear suspension on both was a transverse leaf clamped to the top of the > differential which arrangement resulted in changing rear wheel camber > angle with vertical suspension movement. The static setting on the > Herald was positive camber, on the Spitfire it was negative. This > arrangement was not without its problems. > > Cornering at high speed would induce in the case of the Spitfire a > progressive change from negative towards positive camber on the outside > wheel, and if this progressed to a significant positive value, the car > would break away into incredibly sudden and violent oversteer which you > would have precious little chance of 'catching'. I have obviously no > idea what tragic events caused the sad loss of Pete & family - it seems > unlikely with a child on board he would have been overdoing it but > seeing mention of the cars again reminded me of the car's potential for > accident. > > Dave Newbitt. > > -----Original Message----- From: John Nottage via Tech1 > Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 9:44 AM > To: phider ; John Howell > Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx > > 1971 is a missing diary, along with 1970, so I've no idea if I was there > then. > > Pete certainly drove a Spitfire. I'm sure he had a very young daughter, > & they were all lost in the crash - on the way back from his father's > funeral I think. Not many regulations about children in cars in those > days either. > > In 1971 I was driving my rotting but fun Vitesse convertible - British > Racing Green with a yellow side stripe. No sign of it in the car park... > > John > > On 14/07/2022 07:07, phider wrote: >> I don't have any photos but my 3 sons aged 3, 5 and 6 years frequently >> travelled in the back seat of my Mk 1 Spitfire in the late '70s. A big >> advantage was they didn't have room to fight. >> It was a really enjoyable car to own and a sad day when it died of >> terminal MOT failure. Even my teeth rattled when I got it to do 100 >> mph on one occasion! >> >> Peter Hider >> >> >> Sent from my Galaxy >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: John Howell via Tech1 >> Date: 13/07/2022 21:35 (GMT+00:00) >> To: John Nottage >> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx >> >> ??? I think all of you are on the right track, I can reveal that I >> took the picture on either 30th June or 1st July >> >> *1971.* >> >> I was on Sound Training Course No 12 and we got to mixing several >> matches. What I _cannot_ reveal is where I was standing to get the >> shot. It must have been near the studio, we had just interviewed >> Evonne (Goolagong) Cawley, and you are right it was unbearably hot. >> Scan of pass attached. >> >> I'm not sure you could get two adults and a baby in a 2 seater Spitfire. >> >> >> Hibou. >> >> >> >> On 13/07/2022 10:54, John Nottage wrote: >>> I got Pete Tolman's job after he was killed in a car crash with his >>> wife (& child?). I seem to remember he was driving his Triumph which >>> I'm sure was a 2 seater Spitfire. I got the job (SA1) in 1973, so >>> Pete must have died 72/73. >>> >>> John >>> >>> On 12/07/2022 15:26, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >>>> Thanks John, >>>> >>>> I seem to remember that Pete Tolman the Radio mic king had a >>>> slightly unusual Triumph Herald, it was a two door ''estate" what we >>>> would nowadays call a Hatchback and it was mid-green. Could that be >>>> it top left? >>>> > > From dave at davesound.co.uk Thu Jul 14 03:58:33 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 09:58:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <1M42jK-1oBswb2Hz6-0002WU@mail.gmx.net> References: <1M42jK-1oBswb2Hz6-0002WU@mail.gmx.net> Message-ID: My memory says it was a Triumph Herald that Peter and family so sadly died in? On 14/07/2022 08:07, phider via Tech1 wrote: > I don't have any photos but my 3 sons aged 3, 5 and 6 years frequently > travelled in the back seat of my Mk 1 Spitfire in the late '70s. A big > advantage was they didn't have room to fight. > It was a really enjoyable car to own and a sad day when it died of > terminal MOT failure. Even my teeth rattled when I got it to do 100 > mph on one occasion! > > Peter Hider > > > Sent from my Galaxy > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: John Howell via Tech1 > Date: 13/07/2022 21:35 (GMT+00:00) > To: John Nottage > Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx > > ?? I think all of you are on the right track, I can reveal that I took > the picture on either 30th June or 1st July > > *1971.* > > I was on Sound Training Course No 12 and we got to mixing several > matches. What I _cannot_ reveal is where I was standing to get the > shot. It must have been near the studio, we had just interviewed? > Evonne (Goolagong) Cawley, and you are right it was unbearably hot. > Scan of pass attached. > > I'm not sure you could get two adults and a baby in a 2 seater Spitfire. > > > Hibou. > > > > On 13/07/2022 10:54, John Nottage wrote: >> I got Pete Tolman's job after he was killed in a car crash with his >> wife (& child?). I seem to remember he was driving his Triumph which >> I'm sure was a 2 seater Spitfire. I got the job (SA1) in 1973, so >> Pete must have died 72/73. >> >> John >> >> On 12/07/2022 15:26, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >>> Thanks John, >>> >>> I seem to remember that Pete Tolman the Radio mic king had a >>> slightly unusual Triumph Herald, it was a two door ''estate" what we >>> would nowadays call a Hatchback and it was mid-green. Could that be >>> it top left? >>> > -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jul 14 04:12:22 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 10:12:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <58835F24524E4B3BB64DA467A40237F3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <1M42jK-1oBswb2Hz6-0002WU@mail.gmx.net> <58835F24524E4B3BB64DA467A40237F3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <18c2c77b-0214-b333-11b3-c70b8c7b9931@amps.net> In the early days, before I defected to BMW, I had two Heralds (12/50?) then a Vitesse. My Dad had a Herald too, and we used to service our cars, side by side, sitting on the front wheel with legs inside. With the bonnet up, the access was brilliant. He taught me to re-grind the valves. The driving position seemed unusual, as the steering colum came at you from one direction, and the pedals, another. But I passed the test on it, having failed the first time in the driving school's Morris Minor which I hated. The rear suspension could well have been described as 'lively'. I had one fright, on the approach to Merrow (Guildford), before that section was dualled. Going into the RH bend a bit too quick, the car just hopped into the other, oncoming lane - luckily empty at the time. My Revox was in the boot, and was completely up-ended. So sad to hear about Pete's demise with his family, too. Maybe it was a fault on the part of another driver? Pat On 14/07/2022 09:16, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > In 1963 I had a Herald convertible, then in 1965? a Spitfire MkII. The > rear suspension on both was a transverse leaf clamped to the top of > the differential which arrangement resulted in changing rear wheel > camber angle with vertical suspension movement. The static setting on > the Herald was positive camber, on the Spitfire it was negative. This > arrangement was not without its problems. > > Cornering at high speed would induce in the case of the Spitfire a > progressive change from negative towards positive camber on the > outside wheel, and if this progressed to a significant positive value, > the car would break away into incredibly sudden and violent oversteer > which you would have precious little chance of 'catching'. I have > obviously no idea what tragic events caused the sad loss of Pete & > family - it seems unlikely with a child on board he would have been > overdoing it but seeing mention of the cars again reminded me of the > car's potential for accident. > > Dave Newbitt. -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Thu Jul 14 04:14:22 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 10:14:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <102cc114-82b7-ed05-83af-4d264e93fdb1@chriswoolf.co.uk> On 13/07/2022 22:35, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: > There was an official Triumph Herald van called the 'Courier'... There was indeed.... and in my days off from Tech Ops, during the late 60s,? I used to moonlight for a tiny bolt-together furniture company start-up - beautifully made stuff. They used one of these as their transport till they made enough to buy one of the new Transit vans. It was a dreadful vehicle - rattled like hell, had the usual wheel-scrub problem because of its excessively tight turning circle.... and the front seats were forever coming free when you braked hard. We overloaded the thing appallingly and delivered all round London shops and to the great delivery lorry collection parks that used to exist. Did add to my meagre BBC wages OK... Chris Woolf From alanaudio at me.com Thu Jul 14 04:28:38 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 10:28:38 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <58835F24524E4B3BB64DA467A40237F3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <58835F24524E4B3BB64DA467A40237F3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: Pete and his family were killed in an accident on the M4 between Newbury and Swindon. The way I found out about it was particularly upsetting. I lived at Newbury and an accident like that is inevitably mentioned in the local newspaper. It was all the more heartbreaking and newsworthy because a young family perished, but at that point they were merely described as a family from London. No names were mentioned, but quite a lot of details were given about what happened because Newbury fire crews attended. After his accident I did an OB, but the news about Pete hadn?t reached anybody in Kendal Avenue and I then went off for at least two weeks annual leave. When I returned to work, the funeral had already taken place and nobody was talking about it any more. That Monday morning, Colin White had previously scheduled a general staff meeting and one of the subjects he brought up was suggestions for who might be a suitable gram-op for future music shows. Various names were mentioned and after I while I pointed out that Pete was surely the obvious choice. Stony silence. Awkward looks. I couldn?t imagine why my suggestion was so badly received. Then I was taken outside for the conversation ?Haven?t you heard about Pete ?..? ?. Obviously it was very distressing to have the news broken in that way, and to realise that my innocent comment must have upset so many colleagues. It was compounded by having already read about it in the local paper without realising it was Pete. Alan > On 14 Jul 2022, at 09:16, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > > ?In 1963 I had a Herald convertible, then in 1965 a Spitfire MkII. The rear suspension on both was a transverse leaf clamped to the top of the differential which arrangement resulted in changing rear wheel camber angle with vertical suspension movement. The static setting on the Herald was positive camber, on the Spitfire it was negative. This arrangement was not without its problems. > > Cornering at high speed would induce in the case of the Spitfire a progressive change from negative towards positive camber on the outside wheel, and if this progressed to a significant positive value, the car would break away into incredibly sudden and violent oversteer which you would have precious little chance of 'catching'. I have obviously no idea what tragic events caused the sad loss of Pete & family - it seems unlikely with a child on board he would have been overdoing it but seeing mention of the cars again reminded me of the car's potential for accident. > > Dave Newbitt. > > -----Original Message----- From: John Nottage via Tech1 > Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 9:44 AM > To: phider ; John Howell > Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx > > 1971 is a missing diary, along with 1970, so I've no idea if I was there > then. > > Pete certainly drove a Spitfire. I'm sure he had a very young daughter, > & they were all lost in the crash - on the way back from his father's > funeral I think. Not many regulations about children in cars in those > days either. > > In 1971 I was driving my rotting but fun Vitesse convertible - British > Racing Green with a yellow side stripe. No sign of it in the car park... > > John > >> On 14/07/2022 07:07, phider wrote: >> I don't have any photos but my 3 sons aged 3, 5 and 6 years frequently travelled in the back seat of my Mk 1 Spitfire in the late '70s. A big advantage was they didn't have room to fight. >> It was a really enjoyable car to own and a sad day when it died of terminal MOT failure. Even my teeth rattled when I got it to do 100 mph on one occasion! >> >> Peter Hider >> >> >> Sent from my Galaxy >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: John Howell via Tech1 >> Date: 13/07/2022 21:35 (GMT+00:00) >> To: John Nottage >> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx >> >> I think all of you are on the right track, I can reveal that I took the picture on either 30th June or 1st July >> >> *1971.* >> >> I was on Sound Training Course No 12 and we got to mixing several matches. What I _cannot_ reveal is where I was standing to get the shot. It must have been near the studio, we had just interviewed Evonne (Goolagong) Cawley, and you are right it was unbearably hot. Scan of pass attached. >> >> I'm not sure you could get two adults and a baby in a 2 seater Spitfire. >> >> >> Hibou. >> >> >> >>> On 13/07/2022 10:54, John Nottage wrote: >>> I got Pete Tolman's job after he was killed in a car crash with his wife (& child?). I seem to remember he was driving his Triumph which I'm sure was a 2 seater Spitfire. I got the job (SA1) in 1973, so Pete must have died 72/73. >>> >>> John >>> >>> On 12/07/2022 15:26, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >>>> Thanks John, >>>> >>>> I seem to remember that Pete Tolman the Radio mic king had a slightly unusual Triumph Herald, it was a two door ''estate" what we would nowadays call a Hatchback and it was mid-green. Could that be it top left? >>>> > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jul 14 05:19:27 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 11:19:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <102cc114-82b7-ed05-83af-4d264e93fdb1@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <102cc114-82b7-ed05-83af-4d264e93fdb1@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <04069418-00f6-22d4-6e39-599367a1170f@amps.net> In the 60's, I and many of my sound colleagues used to moonlight for a sound mixer on 35mm commercials. This nearly backfired on him, as a steward from ACT used to patrol the London based studios and cause a fuss if any of the crew were not ACT. I was OK, as I had a ticket then, from joining the BBC shop. Later, he asked me to be part of his crew on a feature, to be shot in the Canaries and Shepperton. He never realised that I used him as my stepping stone into the Film Industry, which was long my target. It was easy to change my ACT ticket to a full freelance one - I just told them! Marion, the ace sound allocations secretary (who always manged to schedule people to their favourite programmes, and keep directors happy, too), knew to never call me in on a 'standby' day, as I lived too far out to be a replacement. When she was on holiday, her stand-in didn't know this, and I got a call (don't think we had mobiles in those days). I was on a commercial at Montague Motor Museum at the time, down at Beaulieu! Pat On 14/07/2022 10:14, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > On 13/07/2022 22:35, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: >> There was an official Triumph Herald van called the 'Courier'... > > There was indeed.... and in my days off from Tech Ops, during the late > 60s,? I used to moonlight for a tiny bolt-together furniture company > start-up - beautifully made stuff. They used one of these as their > transport till they made enough to buy one of the new Transit vans. > > Did add to my meagre BBC wages OK... > > > Chris Woolf -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Thu Jul 14 05:55:22 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 11:55:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: <6ea5356f-5877-d0f5-6c43-39c41611bd82@googlemail.com> References: <1M42jK-1oBswb2Hz6-0002WU@mail.gmx.net><58835F24524E4B3BB64DA467A40237F3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <6ea5356f-5877-d0f5-6c43-39c41611bd82@googlemail.com> Message-ID: That sounds pretty ingenious John and cheaper than other possible solutions. Back in the 60s the byword for all performance mods for Triumphs was a Leighton Buzzard firm called SAH Accessories. The company survives under the name 'Triumphtune' (part of the Moss Group) and still specialises in mods for the classic Triumphs, not just a continuation of the original 60's accessories but newly developed parts. Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: John Nottage via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 10:45 AM To: David Newbitt ; phider ; John Howell Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx The Vitesse rear suspension was the same as the Herald. However, there was a mod I did: it involved taking the transverse spring apart, turning leaf 4 or 5 upside down, then clamping the whole lot together again. The result was negative camber & a nearly solid rear spring: a hard ride, but great for cornering! John On 14/07/2022 08:16, David Newbitt wrote: > In 1963 I had a Herald convertible, then in 1965 a Spitfire MkII. The > rear suspension on both was a transverse leaf clamped to the top of the > differential which arrangement resulted in changing rear wheel camber > angle with vertical suspension movement. The static setting on the Herald > was positive camber, on the Spitfire it was negative. This arrangement was > not without its problems. > > Cornering at high speed would induce in the case of the Spitfire a > progressive change from negative towards positive camber on the outside > wheel, and if this progressed to a significant positive value, the car > would break away into incredibly sudden and violent oversteer which you > would have precious little chance of 'catching'. I have obviously no idea > what tragic events caused the sad loss of Pete & family - it seems > unlikely with a child on board he would have been overdoing it but seeing > mention of the cars again reminded me of the car's potential for accident. > > Dave Newbitt. > > -----Original Message----- From: John Nottage via Tech1 > Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 9:44 AM > To: phider ; John Howell > Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx > > 1971 is a missing diary, along with 1970, so I've no idea if I was there > then. > > Pete certainly drove a Spitfire. I'm sure he had a very young daughter, > & they were all lost in the crash - on the way back from his father's > funeral I think. Not many regulations about children in cars in those > days either. > > In 1971 I was driving my rotting but fun Vitesse convertible - British > Racing Green with a yellow side stripe. No sign of it in the car park... > > John > > On 14/07/2022 07:07, phider wrote: >> I don't have any photos but my 3 sons aged 3, 5 and 6 years frequently >> travelled in the back seat of my Mk 1 Spitfire in the late '70s. A big >> advantage was they didn't have room to fight. >> It was a really enjoyable car to own and a sad day when it died of >> terminal MOT failure. Even my teeth rattled when I got it to do 100 mph >> on one occasion! >> >> Peter Hider >> >> >> Sent from my Galaxy >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: John Howell via Tech1 >> Date: 13/07/2022 21:35 (GMT+00:00) >> To: John Nottage >> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx >> >> I think all of you are on the right track, I can reveal that I took >> the picture on either 30th June or 1st July >> >> *1971.* >> >> I was on Sound Training Course No 12 and we got to mixing several >> matches. What I _cannot_ reveal is where I was standing to get the shot. >> It must have been near the studio, we had just interviewed Evonne >> (Goolagong) Cawley, and you are right it was unbearably hot. Scan of pass >> attached. >> >> I'm not sure you could get two adults and a baby in a 2 seater Spitfire. >> >> >> Hibou. >> >> >> >> On 13/07/2022 10:54, John Nottage wrote: >>> I got Pete Tolman's job after he was killed in a car crash with his wife >>> (& child?). I seem to remember he was driving his Triumph which I'm sure >>> was a 2 seater Spitfire. I got the job (SA1) in 1973, so Pete must have >>> died 72/73. >>> >>> John >>> >>> On 12/07/2022 15:26, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >>>> Thanks John, >>>> >>>> I seem to remember that Pete Tolman the Radio mic king had a slightly >>>> unusual Triumph Herald, it was a two door ''estate" what we would >>>> nowadays call a Hatchback and it was mid-green. Could that be it top >>>> left? >>>> > > -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From bernie833 at gmail.com Thu Jul 14 08:20:31 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 14:20:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Tape decks Message-ID: I didn't join in the thread because I didn't have one, but here is some deck porn from Amberley Museum B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_20220714_135147.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2215713 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_20220714_135217.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2503905 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_20220714_135203.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2600390 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com Thu Jul 14 09:47:07 2022 From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 15:47:07 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2b9dcba9.199fc.181fd2d8452.Webtop.84@btinternet.com> That's true. When I started at the BBC I had a mini van, price - new! in 1964 ?313/9/5 with Morris Motors staff discount (my aunts worked there). As a "commercial" vehicle it wasn't subject to purchase tax. I fitted a rear seat kit, and after a couple of years had a rear window kit fitted. There was a small amount of tax to pay pro rata, but still a big saving. As a commercial, however, it was subject to a 40mph speed limit. One day, after fitting the windows and paying the tax, I was doing about 50 when I was pulled over by the boys in blue. I watched in the mirror as he approached the car and chuckled to myself as his face fell when he saw the rear windows. I could have shown him the paperwork, kept in the car for that very reason, but he didn't even bother. Best wishes ..... Vern Dyer ------ Original Message ------ From: "Alasdair Lawrance Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx There was an official Triumph Herald van called the 'Courier', and I suspect that there were window conversion kits, as the van, being commercial, was free of purchase tax. As a car, purchase tax would apply, although I don't know the rate. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Thu Jul 14 12:28:33 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 18:28:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Anything you can do .... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Part of my personal museum! Cheers, Dave -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Museum pieces!.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 514756 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Thu Jul 14 12:29:11 2022 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 18:29:11 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Tape decks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes the Amberley museum radio/TV shed is absolutely AMAZING! Everything from a Crystal Set (didn?t we all sart with one of those) to a modern flat-screen LED. My visit there a couple of years ago to see MCR21 which was only scheduled for a few hours lasted ALL day to take in the radio shed/Electricity shed/Communications shed and also of course the grounds with people making real things in wood etc. In total a shedload of brilliant stuff! Mike From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 2:20 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Tape decks I didn't join in the thread because I didn't have one, but here is some deck porn from Amberley Museum B -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Thu Jul 14 15:53:10 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 21:53:10 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] E-mail servers Message-ID: <42ac1965-6cca-3306-d29e-a9c175d2fcfe@btinternet.com> Calling all geniiiii....A few weeks ago my daughter's Rocketmail account kept being rejected by my BT account but her Gmail account worked OK. Spool on a few weeks and on Tuesday I got messages on my mobile and on my PC that there had been suspicious attempts to access my e-mail account and that they had 'secured' it, ie. I couldn't use it any more! In the end it came down to changing my password on BT and Thunderbird and lo. and behold, everything worked again. I told my daughter about this last night and she wondered if that was why we had had trouble some weeks before with Rocketmail so she e-mailed me via Rocketmail and it worked perfectley both ways! What's going on chaps? Duh! Cheers, Dave From bernie833 at gmail.com Thu Jul 14 16:25:12 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 22:25:12 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] E-mail servers In-Reply-To: <42ac1965-6cca-3306-d29e-a9c175d2fcfe@btinternet.com> References: <42ac1965-6cca-3306-d29e-a9c175d2fcfe@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <50c1fefa-0b54-09c3-0200-05cbe744a190@gmail.com> Happens all the time. Email is ancient and unreliable. B On 14/07/2022 21:53, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > Calling all geniiiii....A few weeks ago my daughter's Rocketmail > account kept being rejected by my BT account but her Gmail account > worked OK. Spool on a few weeks and on Tuesday I got messages on my > mobile and on my PC that there had been suspicious attempts to access > my e-mail account and that they had 'secured' it, ie. I couldn't use > it any more! In the end it came down to changing my password on BT and > Thunderbird and lo. and behold, everything worked again. I told my > daughter about this last night and she wondered if that was why we had > had trouble some weeks before with Rocketmail so she e-mailed me via > Rocketmail and it worked perfectley both ways! What's going on chaps? > Duh! Cheers, Dave > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Jul 15 04:10:22 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 10:10:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] E-mail servers In-Reply-To: <42ac1965-6cca-3306-d29e-a9c175d2fcfe@btinternet.com> References: <42ac1965-6cca-3306-d29e-a9c175d2fcfe@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Funny you should post this.... Yesterday, a friend had tried three times to send a message, but reported that it was getting rejected. Then I got a message from 'the AMPS Team' saying there were five messages to be read, so click on this link to read them. This produced a page which could not be accessed, so, suspecting a scam, I deleted it all. Bernie - you will be pleased that the AMPS guru set me up with Thunderbird (as a result of the AMPS server migrating to a new provider) but I have issues with it. Trying to contact said guru, but think he must be on holiday. Pat On 14/07/2022 21:53, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > Calling all geniiiii....A few weeks ago my daughter's Rocketmail > account kept being rejected by my BT account but her Gmail account > worked OK. Spool on a few weeks and on Tuesday I got messages on my > mobile and on my PC that there had been suspicious attempts to access > my e-mail account and that they had 'secured' it, ie. I couldn't use > it any more! In the end it came down to changing my password on BT and > Thunderbird and lo. and behold, everything worked again. I told my > daughter about this last night and she wondered if that was why we had > had trouble some weeks before with Rocketmail so she e-mailed me via > Rocketmail and it worked perfectley both ways! What's going on chaps? > Duh! Cheers, Dave > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Jul 15 04:37:18 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2022 10:37:18 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] E-mail servers In-Reply-To: <50c1fefa-0b54-09c3-0200-05cbe744a190@gmail.com> References: <42ac1965-6cca-3306-d29e-a9c175d2fcfe@btinternet.com> <50c1fefa-0b54-09c3-0200-05cbe744a190@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ef6c261-6201-902e-4d97-8099e251b278@amps.net> Maybe it's back to pen & paper and Royal Mail stamps! Incidentally, is everyone aware that stockpiled 1st & 2nd class stamps, which are not dated, are not useable after Jan 2023. They can be exchanged for barcoded ones, though, but they have to be mailed in! Royal Mail has, very belatedly, woken up to the fact that folks buy more stamps in one year, to use in the next after the rates go up. (Ooh, Ooh, we losing money here, guv!!) Can I still use my old postage stamps? Can you still use old stamps? *Non-barcoded stamps will remain valid to use until February 2023*, but anyone who cannot use them by then can swap them for the equivalent value of barcoded stamps.5 Apr 2022 https://www.royalmail.com/sending/barcoded-stamps Bring back Pony Express, I say, and here's an apple for the horse. (Actually, the service for Leatherhead is great, our postie, Robbie, knows most residents by name, and delivers everything very efficiently). Pat On 14/07/2022 22:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > Happens all the time. Email is ancient and unreliable. > > B > > > > On 14/07/2022 21:53, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: >> Calling all geniiiii....A few weeks ago my daughter's Rocketmail >> account kept being rejected by my BT account but her Gmail account >> worked OK. Spool on a few weeks and on Tuesday I got messages on my >> mobile and on my PC that there had been suspicious attempts to access >> my e-mail account and that they had 'secured' it, ie. I couldn't use >> it any more! In the end it came down to changing my password on BT >> and Thunderbird and lo. and behold, everything worked again. I told >> my daughter about this last night and she wondered if that was why we >> had had trouble some weeks before with Rocketmail so she e-mailed me >> via Rocketmail and it worked perfectley both ways! What's going on >> chaps? Duh! Cheers, Dave >> > > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Sat Jul 16 12:50:57 2022 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 18:50:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wimbldon_19xx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9738A5A3E08E4E21AE5635CF18B47C35@Gigabyte> A bit delayed and not sure of my original source but a nice rig? Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Wimbledon_1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 276048 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Wimbledon_2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 279994 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Sun Jul 17 10:39:43 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:39:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Canon printer ink Message-ID: <9e7c6f69-f7b7-d0d3-67ce-606852d962f5@btinternet.com> Just before my third Pixma iP5000 expired I bought about 5 sets of ink for it as the prices were really going up. Sadly, they won't fit my new iP7250 and I don't really want to bin them so is anyone still using BCi-3e Black or BCi-6e C, Y, M, or Black inks? They are genuine Canon inks, not compatibles? Cheers, Dave --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com Mon Jul 18 06:35:22 2022 From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 11:35:22 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] New Variant In-Reply-To: <9738A5A3E08E4E21AE5635CF18B47C35@Gigabyte> References: <9738A5A3E08E4E21AE5635CF18B47C35@Gigabyte> Message-ID: <1ed702f3-fda2-e49b-7168-e8de6b5b3452@googlemail.com> Spotted on Nextdoor... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: New Virus Variant.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 76127 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Mon Jul 18 06:20:02 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 12:20:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Canon printer ink In-Reply-To: <9e7c6f69-f7b7-d0d3-67ce-606852d962f5@btinternet.com> References: <9e7c6f69-f7b7-d0d3-67ce-606852d962f5@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <3039d04f-ea7f-280b-d374-d084e1413bea@amps.net> Sadly, no. My Canon is a PIXMA Pro 8000 which uses BC8 series. Pat On 17/07/2022 16:39, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > Just before my third Pixma iP5000 expired I bought about 5 sets of ink > for it as the prices were really going up. Sadly, they won't fit my > new iP7250 and I don't really want to bin them so is anyone still > using BCi-3e Black or BCi-6e C, Y, M, or Black inks? They are genuine > Canon inks, not compatibles? Cheers, Dave > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Mon Jul 18 07:20:37 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 13:20:37 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Phone costs Message-ID: <2202189d-3c15-ce1e-99f5-53a32e2ac695@amps.net> Has anyone noticed that e-mail can be expensive? How many times have you sent an e-mail, them rung the recipient? saying: "Did you get it?" Then proceeded to discuss, at great length, what the e-mail contained! If your provider of phone and e-mail are one and the same, then doubling their profits? Pat (being cynical, but probably wrong!) -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Mon Jul 18 07:35:45 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 13:35:45 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Phone costs In-Reply-To: <2202189d-3c15-ce1e-99f5-53a32e2ac695@amps.net> References: <2202189d-3c15-ce1e-99f5-53a32e2ac695@amps.net> Message-ID: Other way round here. Was having a clear out of old Rover bits I'll no longer likely ever use. Agreed a price with a Rover Club member who lives to the north of London. Due to size and weight, carriage likely to be expensive/difficult. So he suggested we meet half way - and he'd pay my petrol costs. And suggested we meet up in the RAF museum car park at Hendon. Which we did. Only after getting home and looking at their website did I realise the museum entry is free, but you pay ?10 for the car park. Which I'd not done. I'd assumed the other chap new it well - because on a Sunday, it would have been easy enough to find free parking in a side street. And not pay ?20 total. Phoned them yesterday. Got an answerphone. Phoned this morning and a very helpful lady asked me to email the details (but didn't ask for CC ones). I'd guess the parking is run by a private firm outside their control, though. Yet another time I ask myself "Why me"?? On 18/07/2022 13:20, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > Has anyone noticed that e-mail can be expensive? > > How many times have you sent an e-mail, them rung the recipient? > saying: "Did you get it?" > > Then proceeded to discuss, at great length, what the e-mail contained! > > If your provider of phone and e-mail are one and the same, then > doubling their profits? > > Pat > > (being cynical, but probably wrong!) > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Avast logo > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Mon Jul 18 07:51:55 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 13:51:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Phone costs In-Reply-To: <2202189d-3c15-ce1e-99f5-53a32e2ac695@amps.net> References: <2202189d-3c15-ce1e-99f5-53a32e2ac695@amps.net> Message-ID: My internet deal offers unlimited data, so I don?t have any extra costs for emails. I never use my landline for calls. My mobile phone includes unlimited U.K. calls to most numbers as part of the ?6 per month charge. I do find it frustrating that some companies fail to respond to emails, but if that happens and there is an alternative, I tend to use the alternative company instead. If a company does not want my business, that?s up to them. Traditional business wisdom is that customer retention is cheaper than advertising for new customers, but a surprising number of companies aren?t too bothered about retaining their existing customers. Financial and insurance companies now like to do almost everything via call centres. I try and avoid call centres wherever possible, partly because of the length of time it takes and partly because there is no written record of what was said. Even companies which do offer an online query service often do it via a web site rather than a normal email. Again, unless you make a copy at your end, there is no record of what was said. I prefer to have records of interactions with companies as it helps to clarify matters if problems arise later. Alan > On 18 Jul 2022, at 13:21, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > Has anyone noticed that e-mail can be expensive? > > How many times have you sent an e-mail, them rung the recipient saying: "Did you get it?" > > Then proceeded to discuss, at great length, what the e-mail contained! > > If your provider of phone and e-mail are one and the same, then doubling their profits? > > Pat > > (being cynical, but probably wrong!) > > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin.sutherland at ukgateway.net Mon Jul 18 07:54:42 2022 From: robin.sutherland at ukgateway.net (Robin Sutherland) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 13:54:42 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Pye Mk VI Message-ID: Never thought I?d ever stand behind one of these again! Thanks to Bernie for taking the photo. I met up with him at Amberley Museum last Thursday. We?d both gone to see MCR 21 and it?s exhibition with a recently acquired Pye Mk VI OB camera on show. It was donated from the Science Museum stored collection and amazingly was marked 21.4 so one of its original cameras. Some of you may have used them at Golders Green when the Theatre was being converted to colour. The scanner looks immaculate and is on display outside BH this coming Wednesday to Friday. Good to see Bernie again, a mere 56 years after we both joined up on TO25. How time flies! Robin S -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_8289.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 309721 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_8280.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 394135 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Mon Jul 18 08:09:57 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 14:09:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Phone costs In-Reply-To: References: <2202189d-3c15-ce1e-99f5-53a32e2ac695@amps.net> Message-ID: <96987b06-b06d-197d-34b6-54cac4c35c02@amps.net> I got caught with a return. BT had a good deal on a Samsung 55" TV - so ordered one. When it arrived, I realised that it was far too big for my sitting room, so tried to organise a return. DHL, in spite of having delivered it, didn't want to know - too large for an on-line booking! What bollocks! Hadn't even unpacked it. No luck with DPD, either. So resorted to Parcelforce which cost me ?60, to return something I didn't want. The delivery driver had said that I could have refused acceptance - I should have done. My local council charges ?44 each for large items for disposal - is it any wonder we get fly tipping? Make it free - but then Council Tax rises.... Pat On 18/07/2022 13:35, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > Other way round here. > > Was having a clear out of old Rover bits I'll no longer likely ever > use. Agreed a price with a Rover Club member who lives to the north of > London. Due to size and weight, carriage likely to be > expensive/difficult. So he suggested we meet half way - and he'd pay > my petrol costs. And suggested we meet up in the RAF museum car park > at Hendon. Which we did. Only after getting home and looking at their > website did I realise the museum entry is free, but you pay ?10 for > the car park. Which I'd not done. I'd assumed the other chap new it > well - because on a Sunday, it would have been easy enough to find > free parking in a side street. And not pay ?20 total. > > Phoned them yesterday. Got an answerphone. Phoned this morning and a > very helpful lady asked me to email the details (but didn't ask for CC > ones). > > I'd guess the parking is run by a private firm outside their control, > though. > > Yet another time I ask myself "Why me"?? > > On 18/07/2022 13:20, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Has anyone noticed that e-mail can be expensive? >> >> How many times have you sent an e-mail, them rung the recipient? >> saying: "Did you get it?" >> >> Then proceeded to discuss, at great length, what the e-mail contained! >> >> If your provider of phone and e-mail are one and the same, then >> doubling their profits? >> >> Pat >> >> (being cynical, but probably wrong!) >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Avast logo >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> www.avast.com >> >> >> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> > -- > > Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 > 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 > London > SW12 8HN > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Mon Jul 18 11:30:02 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 17:30:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] One for the technical types. Message-ID: <7c889e8a-43e3-4628-d671-b51357b5161d@davesound.co.uk> Been trying to work on a replacement for the speedometer driver on the old Rover. It is an electronic device, and no circuits are available. It is also potted - so pretty difficult to open up and repair. But more likely to be able to retain the drives gear mechanics to the gearbox and add a hall effect or whatever sensor and trigger wheel. It's NLA new - and there are several different versions depending on gearbox type and rear axle ratio. All I have is a description of the drive electronics from a BL technical instruction - not available to the public. The transducer is a quenched oscillator operating at 3.5 MHz. The output is a square wave which swings between 1.2 and 6.5 volts (this isn't the exact wording, but the essence) Can anyone explain that in terms a mere operator can understand? -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Mon Jul 18 12:18:03 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 18:18:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] One for the technical types. In-Reply-To: <7c889e8a-43e3-4628-d671-b51357b5161d@davesound.co.uk> References: <7c889e8a-43e3-4628-d671-b51357b5161d@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: <0fbbd0c4-528d-c2c2-3da1-81f045de679c@chriswoolf.co.uk> I'll take a guess... The oscillator is tuned using a capacitor. That is formed either by having an electrode "plate" close to a grounded toothed wheel, or uses the toothed wheel to couple a pair of plates (forming the capacitor) together. This can vary the mark/space ratio and thus give a meterable output. Chris Woolf On 18/07/2022 17:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > Been trying to work on a replacement for the speedometer driver on the > old Rover. It is an electronic device, and no circuits are available. > It is also potted - so pretty difficult to open up and repair. But > more likely to be able to retain the drives gear mechanics to the > gearbox and add a hall effect or whatever sensor and trigger wheel. > It's NLA new - and there are several different versions depending on > gearbox type and rear axle ratio. > > All I have is a description of the drive electronics from a BL > technical instruction - not available to the public. > > The transducer is a quenched oscillator operating at 3.5 MHz. The > output is a square wave which swings between 1.2 and 6.5 volts (this > isn't the exact wording, but the essence) > > Can anyone explain that in terms a mere operator can understand? > > -- > > Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 > 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 > London > SW12 8HN > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 12:20:51 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 18:20:51 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] One for the technical types. In-Reply-To: <0fbbd0c4-528d-c2c2-3da1-81f045de679c@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <7c889e8a-43e3-4628-d671-b51357b5161d@davesound.co.uk> <0fbbd0c4-528d-c2c2-3da1-81f045de679c@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <2b04eb99-7cb9-73af-ae7c-0931c1d2d857@gmail.com> ETB supply various speed sensors - https://www.etbinstruments.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=99_110 Don't know if that's any use. B On 18/07/2022 18:18, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > I'll take a guess... > > The oscillator is tuned using a capacitor. That is formed either by > having an electrode "plate" close to a grounded toothed wheel, or uses > the toothed wheel to couple a pair of plates (forming the capacitor) > together. > > This can vary the mark/space ratio and thus give a meterable output. > > > Chris Woolf > > > On 18/07/2022 17:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Been trying to work on a replacement for the speedometer driver on >> the old Rover. It is an electronic device, and no circuits are >> available. It is also potted - so pretty difficult to open up and >> repair. But more likely to be able to retain the drives gear >> mechanics to the gearbox and add a hall effect or whatever sensor and >> trigger wheel. It's NLA new - and there are several different >> versions depending on gearbox type and rear axle ratio. >> >> All I have is a description of the drive electronics from a BL >> technical instruction - not available to the public. >> >> The transducer is a quenched oscillator operating at 3.5 MHz. The >> output is a square wave which swings between 1.2 and 6.5 volts (this >> isn't the exact wording, but the essence) >> >> Can anyone explain that in terms a mere operator can understand? >> >> -- >> >> Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 >> 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 >> London >> SW12 8HN >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hughsheppard at btinternet.com Tue Jul 19 03:31:07 2022 From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 09:31:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] DVLA SCAM Message-ID: How's this for a try-on??? "I don't believe it"!! As this is only a copy, 'tis safe to read, but I've deleted the DVLA details and bank details - which were correct....? and the unopened attachment. This was from: it says...? with an attachment: Mandate.pdf Strictly Private and Confidential Your Direct Debit for vehicle tax has been successfully set up / renewed Dear Mr Edwin Sheppard *Vehicle registration number: AAA123* Thank you for arranging to pay the vehicle tax by Direct Debit. Please check that the details below and your payment schedule (over the page) are correct: * bank account name: Mr. E. H. SHEPPARD * bank account number: * bank sort code: If the information is wrong, please contact your bank. *Your bank statement details will show your:* * reference AAA123 * DVLA identifier. xxxxxxx *Important documents for you to keep:* * this schedule showing the payment amount(s) and date(s). *Cancelling your Direct Debit:* * If you cancel the Direct Debit before you make the first scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the date the previous tax ran out (expired). * You can cancel your single payment Direct Debit once we have taken the scheduled payment. * If you cancel your monthly Direct Debit before we take a scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the end of the month that we took the last successful payment. *If you tell us you have sold, scrapped, exported or made a Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN), we will cancel your Direct Debit.* *When it is time to renew your vehicle tax:* * Your vehicle tax should renew automatically and we will send a new payment schedule. * You do not need to wait for us to take the first payment before you use the vehicle on the road. *If you do not pay the agreed Direct Debit, you may get a late licensing penalty and enforcement action taken against you.* Yours sincerely *Anthony Bamford* Vehicles Service Manager Driver a& Vehicle Licencing Agency logo www.gov.uk/browse/driving Don't get caught!? Google says: Watch out for this DVLA scam email sent from a spoofed address: directdebit at taxdisc. service.gov.uk. *It contains a malicious PDF attachment which, when clicked, could download a banking trojan to steal your online banking login credentials*. The email is well designed and greets the recipient by their full name.27 Jun 2016. So it's been going on for 5 years ++? WHY HASN'T? " Report Phishing " GRABBED IT??? Answers on a Postcard (without an attachment) Please! Hugh -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Tue Jul 19 03:42:25 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 09:42:25 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] DVLA SCAM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <63fbd766-6361-f974-8da5-3e0f80c9c86b@davesound.co.uk> Bit of a giveaway in the address. It's VED (duty) not tax. And we've not had a disc for years. On 19/07/2022 09:31, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: > > How's this for a try-on??? "I don't believe it"!! > > As this is only a copy, 'tis safe to read, but I've deleted the DVLA > details and bank details - which were correct....? and the unopened > attachment. > > This was from: it says...? with > an attachment: Mandate.pdf > > > Strictly Private and Confidential > > Your Direct Debit for vehicle tax has been successfully set up / > renewed > > Dear Mr Edwin Sheppard > > *Vehicle registration number: AAA123* > > Thank you for arranging to pay the vehicle tax by Direct Debit. > > Please check that the details below and your payment schedule > (over the page) are correct: > > * bank account name: Mr. E. H. SHEPPARD > * bank account number: > * bank sort code: > > If the information is wrong, please contact your bank. > > *Your bank statement details will show your:* > > * reference AAA123 > * DVLA identifier. xxxxxxx > > *Important documents for you to keep:* > > * this schedule showing the payment amount(s) and date(s). > > *Cancelling your Direct Debit:* > > * If you cancel the Direct Debit before you make the first > scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the > date the previous tax ran out (expired). > * You can cancel your single payment Direct Debit once we have > taken the scheduled payment. > * If you cancel your monthly Direct Debit before we take a > scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the end > of the month that we took the last successful payment. > > *If you tell us you have sold, scrapped, exported or made a > Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN), we will cancel your Direct > Debit.* > > *When it is time to renew your vehicle tax:* > > * Your vehicle tax should renew automatically and we will send a > new payment schedule. > * You do not need to wait for us to take the first payment > before you use the vehicle on the road. > > *If you do not pay the agreed Direct Debit, you may get a late > licensing penalty and enforcement action taken against you.* > > Yours sincerely > > *Anthony Bamford* > > Vehicles Service Manager > > Driver a& Vehicle Licencing Agency logo > www.gov.uk/browse/driving > > Don't get caught!? Google says: > > Watch out for this DVLA scam email sent from a spoofed > address: directdebit at taxdisc. service.gov.uk. *It contains a > malicious PDF attachment which, when clicked, could download a > banking trojan to steal your online banking login > credentials*. The email is well designed and greets the > recipient by their full name.27 Jun 2016. > > So it's been going on for 5 years ++? WHY HASN'T " Report Phishing > " GRABBED IT??? > > Answers on a Postcard (without an attachment) Please! > > Hugh > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jul 19 04:06:43 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 10:06:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] DVLA SCAM In-Reply-To: <63fbd766-6361-f974-8da5-3e0f80c9c86b@davesound.co.uk> References: <63fbd766-6361-f974-8da5-3e0f80c9c86b@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: I received a similar scam. The slight giveaway is that both of our cars are except from paying VED. We get sent official demands for ?0 every year, which must be responded to in order to keep the cars legal. Alan > On 19 Jul 2022, at 09:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > Bit of a giveaway in the address. It's VED (duty) not tax. And we've not had a disc for years. > > On 19/07/2022 09:31, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: >> How's this for a try-on?? "I don't believe it"!! >> >> As this is only a copy, 'tis safe to read, but I've deleted the DVLA details and bank details - which were correct.... and the unopened attachment. >> >> This was from: it says... with an attachment: Mandate.pdf >> >> >> >> Strictly Private and Confidential >> >> >> >> Your Direct Debit for vehicle tax has been successfully set up / renewed >> >> Dear Mr Edwin Sheppard >> >> Vehicle registration number: AAA123 >> >> Thank you for arranging to pay the vehicle tax by Direct Debit. >> >> Please check that the details below and your payment schedule (over the page) are correct: >> >> bank account name: Mr. E. H. SHEPPARD >> bank account number: >> bank sort code: >> If the information is wrong, please contact your bank. >> >> Your bank statement details will show your: >> >> reference AAA123 >> DVLA identifier. xxxxxxx >> Important documents for you to keep: >> >> this schedule showing the payment amount(s) and date(s). >> Cancelling your Direct Debit: >> >> If you cancel the Direct Debit before you make the first scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the date the previous tax ran out (expired). >> You can cancel your single payment Direct Debit once we have taken the scheduled payment. >> If you cancel your monthly Direct Debit before we take a scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the end of the month that we took the last successful payment. >> If you tell us you have sold, scrapped, exported or made a Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN), we will cancel your Direct Debit. >> >> When it is time to renew your vehicle tax: >> >> Your vehicle tax should renew automatically and we will send a new payment schedule. >> You do not need to wait for us to take the first payment before you use the vehicle on the road. >> If you do not pay the agreed Direct Debit, you may get a late licensing penalty and enforcement action taken against you. >> >> Yours sincerely >> >> >> >> Anthony Bamford >> >> Vehicles Service Manager >> >> >> >> >> www.gov.uk/browse/driving >> Don't get caught! Google says: >> >> Watch out for this DVLA scam email sent from a spoofed address: directdebit at taxdisc. service.gov.uk. It contains a malicious PDF attachment which, when clicked, could download a banking trojan to steal your online banking login credentials. The email is well designed and greets the recipient by their full name.27 Jun 2016. >> So it's been going on for 5 years ++ WHY HASN'T " Report Phishing " GRABBED IT??? >> >> Answers on a Postcard (without an attachment) Please! >> >> Hugh >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> >> > -- > > Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 > 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 > London > SW12 8HN > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com Tue Jul 19 06:12:04 2022 From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:12:04 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] DVLA SCAM In-Reply-To: References: <63fbd766-6361-f974-8da5-3e0f80c9c86b@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: <5A254DAF-E57A-430D-8FF4-64D3E1DD056C@btinternet.com> Hi Alan et al, I got this yesterday. So obviously a scam as she?s written the date in the American style let alone the early time and apart from the fact that my car is taxed until the end of January 2023!! Not to mention her email address being in Holland! ?We suggest you to use a credit card??..really!!! Dear Thema you really must try harder! Didn?t click the url link Barry. On 19 Jul 2022, at 10:06, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > I received a similar scam. The slight giveaway is that both of our cars are except from paying VED. > > We get sent official demands for ?0 every year, which must be responded to in order to keep the cars legal. > > Alan > > >> On 19 Jul 2022, at 09:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ? >> Bit of a giveaway in the address. It's VED (duty) not tax. And we've not had a disc for years. >> On 19/07/2022 09:31, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: >>> How's this for a try-on?? "I don't believe it"!! >>> >>> As this is only a copy, 'tis safe to read, but I've deleted the DVLA details and bank details - which were correct.... and the unopened attachment. >>> >>> This was from: it says... with an attachment: Mandate.pdf >>> >>> >>> Strictly Private and Confidential >>> >>> Your Direct Debit for vehicle tax has been successfully set up / renewed >>> >>> Dear Mr Edwin Sheppard >>> Vehicle registration number: AAA123 >>> >>> Thank you for arranging to pay the vehicle tax by Direct Debit. >>> Please check that the details below and your payment schedule (over the page) are correct: >>> bank account name: Mr. E. H. SHEPPARD >>> bank account number: >>> bank sort code: >>> If the information is wrong, please contact your bank. >>> Your bank statement details will show your: >>> >>> reference AAA123 >>> DVLA identifier. xxxxxxx >>> Important documents for you to keep: >>> >>> this schedule showing the payment amount(s) and date(s). >>> Cancelling your Direct Debit: >>> >>> If you cancel the Direct Debit before you make the first scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the date the previous tax ran out (expired). >>> You can cancel your single payment Direct Debit once we have taken the scheduled payment. >>> If you cancel your monthly Direct Debit before we take a scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the end of the month that we took the last successful payment. >>> If you tell us you have sold, scrapped, exported or made a Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN), we will cancel your Direct Debit. >>> >>> When it is time to renew your vehicle tax: >>> >>> Your vehicle tax should renew automatically and we will send a new payment schedule. >>> You do not need to wait for us to take the first payment before you use the vehicle on the road. >>> If you do not pay the agreed Direct Debit, you may get a late licensing penalty and enforcement action taken against you. >>> >>> Yours sincerely >>> >>> >>> Anthony Bamford >>> >>> Vehicles Service Manager >>> >>> >>> >>> www.gov.uk/browse/driving >>> Don't get caught! Google says: >>> >>> Watch out for this DVLA scam email sent from a spoofed address: directdebit at taxdisc. service.gov.uk. It contains a malicious PDF attachment which, when clicked, could download a banking trojan to steal your online banking login credentials. The email is well designed and greets the recipient by their full name.27 Jun 2016. >>> So it's been going on for 5 years ++ WHY HASN'T " Report Phishing " GRABBED IT??? >>> >>> Answers on a Postcard (without an attachment) Please! >>> >>> Hugh >>> >>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>> >> -- >> >> Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 >> 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 >> London >> SW12 8HN >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DVLA Scam.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 207650 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hughsheppard at btinternet.com Tue Jul 19 06:43:01 2022 From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:43:01 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] DVLA SCAM In-Reply-To: <5A254DAF-E57A-430D-8FF4-64D3E1DD056C@btinternet.com> References: <63fbd766-6361-f974-8da5-3e0f80c9c86b@davesound.co.uk> <5A254DAF-E57A-430D-8FF4-64D3E1DD056C@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Sorry, respondees one and all, BUT I'd guess most of us are at the sharper end of scam- spotters.? It's not too surprising that some folk are almost bound to be taken in, while - as yet -? shoulders seem shrugged as to how it is that AFTER 5 YEARS, NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE ABOUT IT!! Hugh On 19/07/2022 12:12, Barry Bonner via Tech1 wrote: > Hi Alan et al, > I got this yesterday. So obviously a scam as she?s written the date in > the American style let alone the early time and apart from the fact > that my car is taxed until the end of January 2023!! > > Not to mention her email address being in Holland! > > ??We suggest you to use a credit card??..really!!! Dear Thema you > really must try harder!?Didn?t click the url link > > Barry. > > > > > On 19 Jul 2022, at 10:06, Alan Taylor via Tech1 > wrote: > >> I received a similar scam. ?The slight giveaway is that both of our >> cars are except from paying VED. >> >> We get sent official demands for ?0 every year, which must be >> responded to in order to keep the cars legal. >> >> Alan >> >> >>> On 19 Jul 2022, at 09:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 >>> wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Bit of a giveaway in the address. It's VED (duty) not tax. And we've >>> not had a disc for years. >>> >>> On 19/07/2022 09:31, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> How's this for a try-on??? "I don't believe it"!! >>>> >>>> As this is only a copy, 'tis safe to read, but I've deleted the >>>> DVLA details and bank details - which were correct....? and the >>>> unopened attachment. >>>> >>>> This was from: it says...? >>>> with an attachment: Mandate.pdf >>>> >>>> >>>> Strictly Private and Confidential >>>> >>>> >>>> Your Direct Debit for vehicle tax has been successfully set up >>>> / renewed >>>> >>>> Dear Mr Edwin Sheppard >>>> >>>> *Vehicle registration number: AAA123* >>>> >>>> Thank you for arranging to pay the vehicle tax by Direct Debit. >>>> >>>> Please check that the details below and your payment schedule >>>> (over the page) are correct: >>>> >>>> * bank account name: Mr. E. H. SHEPPARD >>>> * bank account number: >>>> * bank sort code: >>>> >>>> If the information is wrong, please contact your bank. >>>> >>>> *Your bank statement details will show your:* >>>> >>>> * reference AAA123 >>>> * DVLA identifier. xxxxxxx >>>> >>>> *Important documents for you to keep:* >>>> >>>> * this schedule showing the payment amount(s) and date(s). >>>> >>>> *Cancelling your Direct Debit:* >>>> >>>> * If you cancel the Direct Debit before you make the first >>>> scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the >>>> date the previous tax ran out (expired). >>>> * You can cancel your single payment Direct Debit once we >>>> have taken the scheduled payment. >>>> * If you cancel your monthly Direct Debit before we take a >>>> scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the >>>> end of the month that we took the last successful payment. >>>> >>>> *If you tell us you have sold, scrapped, exported or made a >>>> Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN), we will cancel your >>>> Direct Debit.* >>>> >>>> *When it is time to renew your vehicle tax:* >>>> >>>> * Your vehicle tax should renew automatically and we will >>>> send a new payment schedule. >>>> * You do not need to wait for us to take the first payment >>>> before you use the vehicle on the road. >>>> >>>> *If you do not pay the agreed Direct Debit, you may get a late >>>> licensing penalty and enforcement action taken against you.* >>>> >>>> Yours sincerely >>>> >>>> >>>> *Anthony Bamford* >>>> >>>> Vehicles Service Manager >>>> >>>> >>>> Driver a& Vehicle Licencing Agency logo >>>> www.gov.uk/browse/driving >>>> >>>> Don't get caught!? Google says: >>>> >>>> Watch out for this DVLA scam email sent from a spoofed >>>> address: directdebit at taxdisc. service.gov.uk >>>> . *It contains a malicious PDF >>>> attachment which, when clicked, could download a banking >>>> trojan to steal your online banking login credentials*. The >>>> email is well designed and greets the recipient by their >>>> full name.27 Jun 2016. >>>> >>>> So it's been going on for 5 years ++? WHY HASN'T? " Report Phishing >>>> " GRABBED IT??? >>>> >>>> Answers on a Postcard (without an attachment) Please! >>>> >>>> Hugh >>>> >>>> >>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> >>> Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 >>> 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 >>> London >>> SW12 8HN >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DVLA%20Scam.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 207650 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Jul 19 06:45:32 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:45:32 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] DVLA SCAM In-Reply-To: <63fbd766-6361-f974-8da5-3e0f80c9c86b@davesound.co.uk> References: <63fbd766-6361-f974-8da5-3e0f80c9c86b@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: <9b20121b-ed5b-3420-f9c9-f88fde850cc9@amps.net> As far as I recall, I get a nice coloured form by post which also has the SORN declaration if needed. Also, there is no Direct Debit set up! The scammers are remarkably inventive, some folks fall for it, though. "Scamming for Dummies" should be required reading! The DVLA site is fun to examine, to see if your vehicle _is_ taxed & MOT status. Insurance can be checked via MID (Motor Insurance Database) It's what the police patrol cars use - I've viewed too many 'Police Interceptors' But I know one of the post production mixers very well. Pat On 19/07/2022 09:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > Bit of a giveaway in the address. It's VED (duty) not tax. And we've > not had a disc for years. > > On 19/07/2022 09:31, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: >> >> How's this for a try-on??? "I don't believe it"!! >> >> As this is only a copy, 'tis safe to read, but I've deleted the DVLA >> details and bank details - which were correct....? and the unopened >> attachment. >> >> This was from: it says...? with >> an attachment: Mandate.pdf >> >> >> Strictly Private and Confidential >> >> Your Direct Debit for vehicle tax has been successfully set up / >> renewed >> >> Dear Mr Edwin Sheppard >> >> *Vehicle registration number: AAA123* >> >> Thank you for arranging to pay the vehicle tax by Direct Debit. >> >> Please check that the details below and your payment schedule >> (over the page) are correct: >> >> * bank account name: Mr. E. H. SHEPPARD >> * bank account number: >> * bank sort code: >> >> If the information is wrong, please contact your bank. >> >> *Your bank statement details will show your:* >> >> * reference AAA123 >> * DVLA identifier. xxxxxxx >> >> *Important documents for you to keep:* >> >> * this schedule showing the payment amount(s) and date(s). >> >> *Cancelling your Direct Debit:* >> >> * If you cancel the Direct Debit before you make the first >> scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the >> date the previous tax ran out (expired). >> * You can cancel your single payment Direct Debit once we have >> taken the scheduled payment. >> * If you cancel your monthly Direct Debit before we take a >> scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the >> end of the month that we took the last successful payment. >> >> *If you tell us you have sold, scrapped, exported or made a >> Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN), we will cancel your >> Direct Debit.* >> >> *When it is time to renew your vehicle tax:* >> >> * Your vehicle tax should renew automatically and we will send >> a new payment schedule. >> * You do not need to wait for us to take the first payment >> before you use the vehicle on the road. >> >> *If you do not pay the agreed Direct Debit, you may get a late >> licensing penalty and enforcement action taken against you.* >> >> Yours sincerely >> >> *Anthony Bamford* >> >> Vehicles Service Manager >> >> Driver a& Vehicle Licencing Agency logo >> www.gov.uk/browse/driving >> >> Don't get caught!? Google says: >> >> Watch out for this DVLA scam email sent from a spoofed >> address: directdebit at taxdisc. service.gov.uk. *It contains a >> malicious PDF attachment which, when clicked, could download >> a banking trojan to steal your online banking login >> credentials*. The email is well designed and greets the >> recipient by their full name.27 Jun 2016. >> >> So it's been going on for 5 years ++? WHY HASN'T? " Report Phishing >> " GRABBED IT??? >> >> Answers on a Postcard (without an attachment) Please! >> >> Hugh >> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> >> >> >> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> > -- > > Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 > 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 > London > SW12 8HN > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Jul 19 07:03:40 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 13:03:40 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] DVLA SCAM In-Reply-To: References: <63fbd766-6361-f974-8da5-3e0f80c9c86b@davesound.co.uk> <5A254DAF-E57A-430D-8FF4-64D3E1DD056C@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <803dcc07-b5cf-0a50-f5fe-90d8c73b3937@amps.net> Indeed, step forward to receive your medal - presented by El Primo Ministro of the Untied Kingdom! Pat On 19/07/2022 12:43, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: > > Sorry, respondees one and all, BUTI'd guess most of us are at the > sharper end of scam- spotters.? It's not too surprising that some folk > are almost bound to be taken in, while - as yet - shoulders seem > shrugged as to how it is that AFTER 5 YEARS, NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE > ABOUT IT!! > > Hugh > > On 19/07/2022 12:12, Barry Bonner via Tech1 wrote: >> Hi Alan et al, >> I got this yesterday. So obviously a scam as she?s written the date >> in the American style let alone the early time and apart from the >> fact that my car is taxed until the end of January 2023!! >> >> Not to mention her email address being in Holland! >> >> ??We suggest you to use a credit card??..really!!! Dear Thema you >> really must try harder!?Didn?t click the url link >> >> Barry. >> >> -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Scam%20Spotter%20Medal.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 60717 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Scam Spotter Medal.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 60717 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jul 19 07:24:29 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 13:24:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] DVLA SCAM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Unfortunately the mathematics do add up for the scammers. If they only fool one person in a thousand and fire off millions of emails because it doesn?t cost anything, they still make tens of thousands of pounds. It reminds me of one of my OB colleagues who would chat up women whenever he was away from home. He might have only got to go out with a very small proportion of them, but a small proportion of a large number of women was enough to be worthwhile as far as he was concerned. I think that most of us have known somebody like that. Alan > On 19 Jul 2022, at 12:42, Hugh Sheppard wrote: > > ? > Sorry, respondees one and all, BUT I'd guess most of us are at the sharper end of scam- spotters. It's not too surprising that some folk are almost bound to be taken in, while - as yet - shoulders seem shrugged as to how it is that AFTER 5 YEARS, NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE ABOUT IT!! > > Hugh > > On 19/07/2022 12:12, Barry Bonner via Tech1 wrote: >> Hi Alan et al, >> I got this yesterday. So obviously a scam as she?s written the date in the American style let alone the early time and apart from the fact that my car is taxed until the end of January 2023!! >> >> Not to mention her email address being in Holland! >> >> ?We suggest you to use a credit card??..really!!! Dear Thema you really must try harder! Didn?t click the url link >> >> Barry. >> >> >> >> >> On 19 Jul 2022, at 10:06, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> >>> I received a similar scam. The slight giveaway is that both of our cars are except from paying VED. >>> >>> We get sent official demands for ?0 every year, which must be responded to in order to keep the cars legal. >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> >>>> On 19 Jul 2022, at 09:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> ? >>>> Bit of a giveaway in the address. It's VED (duty) not tax. And we've not had a disc for years. >>>> >>>> On 19/07/2022 09:31, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> How's this for a try-on?? "I don't believe it"!! >>>>> >>>>> As this is only a copy, 'tis safe to read, but I've deleted the DVLA details and bank details - which were correct.... and the unopened attachment. >>>>> >>>>> This was from: it says... with an attachment: Mandate.pdf >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Strictly Private and Confidential >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Your Direct Debit for vehicle tax has been successfully set up / renewed >>>>> >>>>> Dear Mr Edwin Sheppard >>>>> >>>>> Vehicle registration number: AAA123 >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for arranging to pay the vehicle tax by Direct Debit. >>>>> >>>>> Please check that the details below and your payment schedule (over the page) are correct: >>>>> >>>>> bank account name: Mr. E. H. SHEPPARD >>>>> bank account number: >>>>> bank sort code: >>>>> If the information is wrong, please contact your bank. >>>>> >>>>> Your bank statement details will show your: >>>>> >>>>> reference AAA123 >>>>> DVLA identifier. xxxxxxx >>>>> Important documents for you to keep: >>>>> >>>>> this schedule showing the payment amount(s) and date(s). >>>>> Cancelling your Direct Debit: >>>>> >>>>> If you cancel the Direct Debit before you make the first scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the date the previous tax ran out (expired). >>>>> You can cancel your single payment Direct Debit once we have taken the scheduled payment. >>>>> If you cancel your monthly Direct Debit before we take a scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the end of the month that we took the last successful payment. >>>>> If you tell us you have sold, scrapped, exported or made a Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN), we will cancel your Direct Debit. >>>>> >>>>> When it is time to renew your vehicle tax: >>>>> >>>>> Your vehicle tax should renew automatically and we will send a new payment schedule. >>>>> You do not need to wait for us to take the first payment before you use the vehicle on the road. >>>>> If you do not pay the agreed Direct Debit, you may get a late licensing penalty and enforcement action taken against you. >>>>> >>>>> Yours sincerely >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Anthony Bamford >>>>> >>>>> Vehicles Service Manager >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> www.gov.uk/browse/driving >>>>> Don't get caught! Google says: >>>>> >>>>> Watch out for this DVLA scam email sent from a spoofed address: directdebit at taxdisc. service.gov.uk. It contains a malicious PDF attachment which, when clicked, could download a banking trojan to steal your online banking login credentials. The email is well designed and greets the recipient by their full name.27 Jun 2016. >>>>> So it's been going on for 5 years ++ WHY HASN'T " Report Phishing " GRABBED IT??? >>>>> >>>>> Answers on a Postcard (without an attachment) Please! >>>>> >>>>> Hugh >>>>> >>>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 >>>> 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 >>>> London >>>> SW12 8HN >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DVLA%20Scam.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 207650 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Tue Jul 19 08:46:58 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 14:46:58 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] DVLA SCAM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <978732c4-e7f0-edcf-06a5-fc8e0b01822c@davesound.co.uk> I've often wondered if there were a solution. Same with spam phone calls. Perhaps if each email and phone call was charged for individually (and the standing costs reduced) it might make some difference? If each email cost say 3p, I doubt there'd be much spam? But sadly those in charge of such things simply don't give a damn. On 19/07/2022 13:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > Unfortunately the mathematics do add up for the scammers. ?If they > only fool one person in a thousand and fire off millions of emails > because it doesn?t cost anything, they still make tens of thousands of > pounds. > > It reminds me of one of my OB colleagues who would chat up women > whenever he was away from home. ?He might have only got to go out with > a very small proportion of them, but a small proportion of a large > number of women was enough to be worthwhile as far as he was > concerned. I think that most of us have known somebody like that. > > Alan > > >> On 19 Jul 2022, at 12:42, Hugh Sheppard >> wrote: >> >> ? >> >> Sorry, respondees one and all, BUT I'd guess most of us are at the >> sharper end of scam- spotters.? It's not too surprising that some >> folk are almost bound to be taken in, while - as yet -? shoulders >> seem shrugged as to how it is that AFTER 5 YEARS, NOTHING HAS BEEN >> DONE ABOUT IT!! >> >> Hugh >> >> On 19/07/2022 12:12, Barry Bonner via Tech1 wrote: >>> Hi Alan et al, >>> I got this yesterday. So obviously a scam as she?s written the date >>> in the American style let alone the early time and apart from the >>> fact that my car is taxed until the end of January 2023!! >>> >>> Not to mention her email address being in Holland! >>> >>> ??We suggest you to use a credit card??..really!!! Dear Thema you >>> really must try harder!?Didn?t click the url link >>> >>> Barry. >>> >>> DVLA%20Scam.jpg >>> >>> >>> On 19 Jul 2022, at 10:06, Alan Taylor via Tech1 >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I received a similar scam. ?The slight giveaway is that both of our >>>> cars are except from paying VED. >>>> >>>> We get sent official demands for ?0 every year, which must be >>>> responded to in order to keep the cars legal. >>>> >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 19 Jul 2022, at 09:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> >>>>> Bit of a giveaway in the address. It's VED (duty) not tax. And >>>>> we've not had a disc for years. >>>>> >>>>> On 19/07/2022 09:31, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> How's this for a try-on??? "I don't believe it"!! >>>>>> >>>>>> As this is only a copy, 'tis safe to read, but I've deleted the >>>>>> DVLA details and bank details - which were correct....? and the >>>>>> unopened attachment. >>>>>> >>>>>> This was from: it says...? >>>>>> with an attachment: Mandate.pdf >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Strictly Private and Confidential >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Your Direct Debit for vehicle tax has been successfully set >>>>>> up / renewed >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Mr Edwin Sheppard >>>>>> >>>>>> *Vehicle registration number: AAA123* >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for arranging to pay the vehicle tax by Direct Debit. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please check that the details below and your payment schedule >>>>>> (over the page) are correct: >>>>>> >>>>>> * bank account name: Mr. E. H. SHEPPARD >>>>>> * bank account number: >>>>>> * bank sort code: >>>>>> >>>>>> If the information is wrong, please contact your bank. >>>>>> >>>>>> *Your bank statement details will show your:* >>>>>> >>>>>> * reference AAA123 >>>>>> * DVLA identifier. xxxxxxx >>>>>> >>>>>> *Important documents for you to keep:* >>>>>> >>>>>> * this schedule showing the payment amount(s) and date(s). >>>>>> >>>>>> *Cancelling your Direct Debit:* >>>>>> >>>>>> * If you cancel the Direct Debit before you make the first >>>>>> scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from >>>>>> the date the previous tax ran out (expired). >>>>>> * You can cancel your single payment Direct Debit once we >>>>>> have taken the scheduled payment. >>>>>> * If you cancel your monthly Direct Debit before we take a >>>>>> scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from >>>>>> the end of the month that we took the last successful >>>>>> payment. >>>>>> >>>>>> *If you tell us you have sold, scrapped, exported or made a >>>>>> Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN), we will cancel your >>>>>> Direct Debit.* >>>>>> >>>>>> *When it is time to renew your vehicle tax:* >>>>>> >>>>>> * Your vehicle tax should renew automatically and we will >>>>>> send a new payment schedule. >>>>>> * You do not need to wait for us to take the first payment >>>>>> before you use the vehicle on the road. >>>>>> >>>>>> *If you do not pay the agreed Direct Debit, you may get a >>>>>> late licensing penalty and enforcement action taken against >>>>>> you.* >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours sincerely >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Anthony Bamford* >>>>>> >>>>>> Vehicles Service Manager >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Driver a& Vehicle Licencing Agency logo >>>>>> www.gov.uk/browse/driving >>>>>> >>>>>> Don't get caught! Google says: >>>>>> >>>>>> Watch out for this DVLA scam email sent from a spoofed >>>>>> address: directdebit at taxdisc. service.gov.uk >>>>>> . *It contains a malicious PDF >>>>>> attachment which, when clicked, could download a banking >>>>>> trojan to steal your online banking login credentials*. >>>>>> The email is well designed and greets the recipient by >>>>>> their full name.27 Jun 2016. >>>>>> >>>>>> So it's been going on for 5 years ++ WHY HASN'T? " Report >>>>>> Phishing " GRABBED IT??? >>>>>> >>>>>> Answers on a Postcard (without an attachment) Please! >>>>>> >>>>>> Hugh >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 >>>>> 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 >>>>> London >>>>> SW12 8HN >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >>> > -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DVLA%20Scam.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 207650 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tuckergarth at me.com Tue Jul 19 11:21:26 2022 From: tuckergarth at me.com (Garth Tucker) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 17:21:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Scams Message-ID: <137F37F8-B4BF-43E8-90C0-646FA5BE120F@me.com> Hugh, to paraphrase a colleague, don?t blame me I didn?t vote for them. Garth From alanaudio at me.com Tue Jul 19 13:10:09 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 19:10:09 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] DVLA SCAM In-Reply-To: <978732c4-e7f0-edcf-06a5-fc8e0b01822c@davesound.co.uk> References: <978732c4-e7f0-edcf-06a5-fc8e0b01822c@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: <66DF71CD-1163-4DC4-BE81-0DA194CA1BC0@me.com> Apple take rather a dim view of scam emails and if you use one of their email accounts ( iCloud.com or me.com ) your mail will normally be filtered to get rid of obvious scams. They use a combination of techniques. One is a black list of known dodgy sites, another is identifying suspicious content in an email, another one is reacting when users flag emails as being spam, one other factor is lack of user engagement. If you frequently delete emails without even reading them, the chances are that they are spam it unwanted emails. It?s not foolproof, but it does a decent job of blocking a lot of spam. I assume other providers could do something similar and probably do. Alan > On 19 Jul 2022, at 14:47, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > I've often wondered if there were a solution. Same with spam phone calls. Perhaps if each email and phone call was charged for individually (and the standing costs reduced) it might make some difference? If each email cost say 3p, I doubt there'd be much spam? But sadly those in charge of such things simply don't give a damn. > > On 19/07/2022 13:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> Unfortunately the mathematics do add up for the scammers. If they only fool one person in a thousand and fire off millions of emails because it doesn?t cost anything, they still make tens of thousands of pounds. >> >> It reminds me of one of my OB colleagues who would chat up women whenever he was away from home. He might have only got to go out with a very small proportion of them, but a small proportion of a large number of women was enough to be worthwhile as far as he was concerned. I think that most of us have known somebody like that. >> >> Alan >> >> >>> On 19 Jul 2022, at 12:42, Hugh Sheppard wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> Sorry, respondees one and all, BUT I'd guess most of us are at the sharper end of scam- spotters. It's not too surprising that some folk are almost bound to be taken in, while - as yet - shoulders seem shrugged as to how it is that AFTER 5 YEARS, NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE ABOUT IT!! >>> >>> Hugh >>> >>> On 19/07/2022 12:12, Barry Bonner via Tech1 wrote: >>>> Hi Alan et al, >>>> I got this yesterday. So obviously a scam as she?s written the date in the American style let alone the early time and apart from the fact that my car is taxed until the end of January 2023!! >>>> >>>> Not to mention her email address being in Holland! >>>> >>>> ?We suggest you to use a credit card??..really!!! Dear Thema you really must try harder! Didn?t click the url link >>>> >>>> Barry. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 19 Jul 2022, at 10:06, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>>> I received a similar scam. The slight giveaway is that both of our cars are except from paying VED. >>>>> >>>>> We get sent official demands for ?0 every year, which must be responded to in order to keep the cars legal. >>>>> >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 19 Jul 2022, at 09:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> ? >>>>>> Bit of a giveaway in the address. It's VED (duty) not tax. And we've not had a disc for years. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 19/07/2022 09:31, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>>> How's this for a try-on?? "I don't believe it"!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As this is only a copy, 'tis safe to read, but I've deleted the DVLA details and bank details - which were correct.... and the unopened attachment. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This was from: it says... with an attachment: Mandate.pdf >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Strictly Private and Confidential >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your Direct Debit for vehicle tax has been successfully set up / renewed >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Mr Edwin Sheppard >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Vehicle registration number: AAA123 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for arranging to pay the vehicle tax by Direct Debit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please check that the details below and your payment schedule (over the page) are correct: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> bank account name: Mr. E. H. SHEPPARD >>>>>>> bank account number: >>>>>>> bank sort code: >>>>>>> If the information is wrong, please contact your bank. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your bank statement details will show your: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> reference AAA123 >>>>>>> DVLA identifier. xxxxxxx >>>>>>> Important documents for you to keep: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> this schedule showing the payment amount(s) and date(s). >>>>>>> Cancelling your Direct Debit: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you cancel the Direct Debit before you make the first scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the date the previous tax ran out (expired). >>>>>>> You can cancel your single payment Direct Debit once we have taken the scheduled payment. >>>>>>> If you cancel your monthly Direct Debit before we take a scheduled payment, your vehicle will not be taxed from the end of the month that we took the last successful payment. >>>>>>> If you tell us you have sold, scrapped, exported or made a Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN), we will cancel your Direct Debit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When it is time to renew your vehicle tax: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your vehicle tax should renew automatically and we will send a new payment schedule. >>>>>>> You do not need to wait for us to take the first payment before you use the vehicle on the road. >>>>>>> If you do not pay the agreed Direct Debit, you may get a late licensing penalty and enforcement action taken against you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yours sincerely >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anthony Bamford >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Vehicles Service Manager >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> www.gov.uk/browse/driving >>>>>>> Don't get caught! Google says: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Watch out for this DVLA scam email sent from a spoofed address: directdebit at taxdisc. service.gov.uk. It contains a malicious PDF attachment which, when clicked, could download a banking trojan to steal your online banking login credentials. The email is well designed and greets the recipient by their full name.27 Jun 2016. >>>>>>> So it's been going on for 5 years ++ WHY HASN'T " Report Phishing " GRABBED IT??? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Answers on a Postcard (without an attachment) Please! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hugh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 >>>>>> 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 >>>>>> London >>>>>> SW12 8HN >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> >>>> >> > -- > > Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 > 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 > London > SW12 8HN > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DVLA%20Scam.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 207650 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 14:21:37 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 20:21:37 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Rain! Thunder! Message-ID: <052a8d9a-f1b0-4283-1060-d316768b525a@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: OKBqrhZNVXysBPHi.png Type: image/png Size: 312161 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Tue Jul 19 16:11:09 2022 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 22:11:09 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Rain! Thunder! In-Reply-To: <052a8d9a-f1b0-4283-1060-d316768b525a@gmail.com> References: <052a8d9a-f1b0-4283-1060-d316768b525a@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks Bernard, very interesting! We had a short heavy downpour and thunder in Esher at about 2015, better than nothing I suppose! Cheers, Dave --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From dave at davesound.co.uk Wed Jul 20 08:30:09 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 14:30:09 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Contesting an PCN in court. Message-ID: ?I took the old Rover to a local specialist on 27/04 to have the alloy wheels removed, shot blasted, and powder coated. Paid over the odds to use a local firm. Only a couple of days later did I remember the garage was within the ULEZ. And too late to pay it. But did pay it for the return journey after the work was done, about 10 days later. Therefore I was obviously expecting a PCN, and looked out for it. With this sort of PCN, you get a 50% discount from the ?160 if you pay within IIRC 14 days. And easy to do online. It didn't arrive, so counted myself lucky for once. On 28/06 I did indeed get a PCN. Stating that since I hadn't paid it within the prescribed period it was now ?240. I immediately wrote to them - 1st class post - giving the above reason. Not having received the original PCN. On 14/07 I got a reply effectively saying they didn't believe me and? would apply to the county court if I didn't pay the ?240. Since I sincerely believe I didn't receive the original PCN document, I'm going to fight it. But not to the point of employing legal help. Any tips? -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN From alawrance1 at me.com Wed Jul 20 09:05:54 2022 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 15:05:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Contesting an PCN in court. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Start off by asking them for proof of delivery, not proof of posting. Alasdair Lawrance Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > On 20 Jul 2022, at 14:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > ? I took the old Rover to a local specialist on 27/04 to have the alloy wheels removed, shot blasted, and powder coated. Paid over the odds to use a local firm. > > Only a couple of days later did I remember the garage was within the ULEZ. And too late to pay it. But did pay it for the return journey after the work was done, about 10 days later. > > Therefore I was obviously expecting a PCN, and looked out for it. With this sort of PCN, you get a 50% discount from the ?160 if you pay within IIRC 14 days. And easy to do online. > > It didn't arrive, so counted myself lucky for once. > > On 28/06 I did indeed get a PCN. Stating that since I hadn't paid it within the prescribed period it was now ?240. > > I immediately wrote to them - 1st class post - giving the above reason. Not having received the original PCN. > > On 14/07 I got a reply effectively saying they didn't believe me and would apply to the county court if I didn't pay the ?240. > > Since I sincerely believe I didn't receive the original PCN document, I'm going to fight it. But not to the point of employing legal help. > > Any tips? > > -- > > Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 > 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 > London > SW12 8HN > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Wed Jul 20 09:47:07 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 15:47:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Contesting an PCN in court. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8F8823E99DA84722969DDBB9233D4EBD@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Lord Denning, either when he was Lord Chief Justice or Master of the Rolls (I don't remember which position he held at the time) once pronounced a principle which has always appealed to me. It was this - not verbatim but a fair approximation - " Did the accused, having regard to all the circumstances at the time of the offence, behave in a reasonable manner notwithstanding what the exact letter of the law might require". So Dave, you have my sympathy as it seems to me your actions would qualify if the principle were applied. Being prepared to 'go out on a limb' rather than play everything by the damn rule book is sadly something of a rarity. Even the outcome of a GP consultation depends as often as not on the point tally acquired as a result of the Doctor measuring your symptoms against a published set of criteria which he/she pores over when you would rather they primarily engaged with you and called upon their own experience. Back in the 60s on my way to work one day I was heading up Shepherds Bush Road having just left Hammersmith Broadway when my Spitfire ran out of fuel. I puttered to a halt and then pushed the car to roughly where the old Osram factory then was, propped the bonnet open to imply breakdown and, fuel can in hand, headed up towards the Bush (there was then - may still be) - a filling station on the left well before reaching the corner of the Green. When I returned, there he was slipping the ticket under the wiper blade. I was causing no obstruction but he was unmoved - " tell your story to the court" he said. I did - they too were unmoved. 'Twas ever thus! Good luck Dave, Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 3:05 PM To: Dave Plowman Cc: TechOps Subject: Re: [Tech1] Contesting an PCN in court. Start off by asking them for proof of delivery, not proof of posting. Alasdair Lawrance Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > On 20 Jul 2022, at 14:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 > wrote: > > ? I took the old Rover to a local specialist on 27/04 to have the alloy > wheels removed, shot blasted, and powder coated. Paid over the odds to use > a local firm. > > Only a couple of days later did I remember the garage was within the ULEZ. > And too late to pay it. But did pay it for the return journey after the > work was done, about 10 days later. > > Therefore I was obviously expecting a PCN, and looked out for it. With > this sort of PCN, you get a 50% discount from the ?160 if you pay within > IIRC 14 days. And easy to do online. > > It didn't arrive, so counted myself lucky for once. > > On 28/06 I did indeed get a PCN. Stating that since I hadn't paid it > within the prescribed period it was now ?240. > > I immediately wrote to them - 1st class post - giving the above reason. > Not having received the original PCN. > > On 14/07 I got a reply effectively saying they didn't believe me and > would apply to the county court if I didn't pay the ?240. > > Since I sincerely believe I didn't receive the original PCN document, I'm > going to fight it. But not to the point of employing legal help. > > Any tips? > > -- > > Dave Plowman 020 > 8672 3123 > 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 > 421 304 > London > SW12 8HN > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dave at davesound.co.uk Wed Jul 20 12:21:28 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 18:21:28 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Contesting an PCN in court. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: These things aren't even sent recorded deliver. However, I'm single and have a semi-detached house with own front door and letterbox. And a truly excellent postman. And of course I was expecting it. So my best bet - not sent or lost in the post. That is assuming it comes via RM. I stayed in yesterday due to the heat, so used my time to write to my MP. Never done this before. Be interesting to see her response. On 20/07/2022 15:05, Alasdair Lawrance wrote: > Start off by asking them for proof of delivery, not proof of posting. > > Alasdair Lawrance > > Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. > > > >> On 20 Jul 2022, at 14:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ? I took the old Rover to a local specialist on 27/04 to have the alloy wheels removed, shot blasted, and powder coated. Paid over the odds to use a local firm. >> >> Only a couple of days later did I remember the garage was within the ULEZ. And too late to pay it. But did pay it for the return journey after the work was done, about 10 days later. >> >> Therefore I was obviously expecting a PCN, and looked out for it. With this sort of PCN, you get a 50% discount from the ?160 if you pay within IIRC 14 days. And easy to do online. >> >> It didn't arrive, so counted myself lucky for once. >> >> On 28/06 I did indeed get a PCN. Stating that since I hadn't paid it within the prescribed period it was now ?240. >> >> I immediately wrote to them - 1st class post - giving the above reason. Not having received the original PCN. >> >> On 14/07 I got a reply effectively saying they didn't believe me and would apply to the county court if I didn't pay the ?240. >> >> Since I sincerely believe I didn't receive the original PCN document, I'm going to fight it. But not to the point of employing legal help. >> >> Any tips? >> >> -- >> >> Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 >> 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 >> London >> SW12 8HN >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN From alanaudio at me.com Wed Jul 20 12:37:55 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 18:37:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Contesting an PCN in court. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8D73DA13-A9EF-4AD8-B978-FBF98CEC2980@me.com> About three years ago I was surprised to have a parking penalty dismissed. I was working at Luton FC and there is a large public car park nearby which allows parking for long enough. When I arrived, their parking app wouldn?t let me pay and I didn?t have enough cash to put in the machine ( machine was coins only ). I looked around the car park to see if any other crew members had turned up so that I could borrow a couple of pounds coins. By the time I had returned to my car with a ticket, it had been ticketed. I wrote and politely explained the circumstances, suggesting that their app might show my unsuccessful attempt to pay and that the time written on the ticket was very close to the start time of the ticket I paid for. I was resigned to being required to pay anyway, but they sent a reply saying that on this occasion the fine would be waived, but would not be in the future. It?s sometimes worth challenging situations where you feel morally right, but it doesn?t always work the way you might hope. Good lunch with it Dave. Alan > On 20 Jul 2022, at 18:21, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > ?These things aren't even sent recorded deliver. However, I'm single and have a semi-detached house with own front door and letterbox. And a truly excellent postman. And of course I was expecting it. So my best bet - not sent or lost in the post. That is assuming it comes via RM. > > I stayed in yesterday due to the heat, so used my time to write to my MP. Never done this before. Be interesting to see her response. > >> On 20/07/2022 15:05, Alasdair Lawrance wrote: >> Start off by asking them for proof of delivery, not proof of posting. >> >> Alasdair Lawrance >> >> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. >> >> >> >>>> On 20 Jul 2022, at 14:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ? I took the old Rover to a local specialist on 27/04 to have the alloy wheels removed, shot blasted, and powder coated. Paid over the odds to use a local firm. >>> >>> Only a couple of days later did I remember the garage was within the ULEZ. And too late to pay it. But did pay it for the return journey after the work was done, about 10 days later. >>> >>> Therefore I was obviously expecting a PCN, and looked out for it. With this sort of PCN, you get a 50% discount from the ?160 if you pay within IIRC 14 days. And easy to do online. >>> >>> It didn't arrive, so counted myself lucky for once. >>> >>> On 28/06 I did indeed get a PCN. Stating that since I hadn't paid it within the prescribed period it was now ?240. >>> >>> I immediately wrote to them - 1st class post - giving the above reason. Not having received the original PCN. >>> >>> On 14/07 I got a reply effectively saying they didn't believe me and would apply to the county court if I didn't pay the ?240. >>> >>> Since I sincerely believe I didn't receive the original PCN document, I'm going to fight it. But not to the point of employing legal help. >>> >>> Any tips? >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 >>> 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 >>> London >>> SW12 8HN >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > > Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 > 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 > London > SW12 8HN > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com Wed Jul 20 12:48:20 2022 From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Ravenscourt1) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 18:48:20 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tech1] Contesting an PCN in court. In-Reply-To: <8D73DA13-A9EF-4AD8-B978-FBF98CEC2980@me.com> References: <8D73DA13-A9EF-4AD8-B978-FBF98CEC2980@me.com> Message-ID: <63f73c78.1acfd.1821cb9944f.Webtop.85@btinternet.com> I had a similar one delivering to a charity shop in Hammersmith. The authorities were using a firm in Brighton to collect their fines and on appeal with a ?250 fine looming we waited for the appeal date. But a week before the appeal hearing they said the would not Perdue the claim. I suspect the firm in Brighton thought that to send two people out of the office in Brighton to London wasn't worth ?250 in expenses. Good luck Best to all Albert Sent via BT Email App From:?Alan Taylor via Tech1 Sent:?Jul 20, 2022 at 6:38 PM To:?tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject:?Re: [Tech1] Contesting an PCN in court. About three years ago I was surprised to have a parking penalty dismissed.? I was working at Luton FC and there is a large public car park nearby which allows parking for long enough.? When I arrived, their parking app wouldn?t let me pay and I didn?t have enough cash to put in the machine ( machine was coins only ). I looked around the car park to see if any other crew members had turned up so that I could borrow a couple of pounds coins.? By the time I had returned to my car with a ticket, it had been ticketed. I wrote and politely explained the circumstances, suggesting that their app might show my unsuccessful attempt to pay and that the time written on the ticket was very close to the start time of the ticket I paid for. I was resigned to being required to pay anyway, but they sent a reply saying that on this occasion the fine would be waived, but would not be in the future. It?s sometimes worth challenging situations where you feel morally right, but it doesn?t always work the way you might hope. Good lunch with it Dave. Alan On 20 Jul 2022, at 18:21, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: ?These things aren't even sent recorded deliver. However, I'm single and have a semi-detached house with own front door and letterbox. And a truly excellent postman. And of course I was expecting it. So my best bet - not sent or lost in the post. That is assuming it comes via RM. I stayed in yesterday due to the heat, so used my time to write to my MP. Never done this before. Be interesting to see her response. On 20/07/2022 15:05, Alasdair Lawrance wrote: Start off by asking them for proof of delivery, not proof of posting. Alasdair Lawrance Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. On 20 Jul 2022, at 14:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: ? I took the old Rover to a local specialist on 27/04 to have the alloy wheels removed, shot blasted, and powder coated. Paid over the odds to use a local firm. Only a couple of days later did I remember the garage was within the ULEZ. And too late to pay it. But did pay it for the return journey after the work was done, about 10 days later. Therefore I was obviously expecting a PCN, and looked out for it. With this sort of PCN, you get a 50% discount from the ?160 if you pay within IIRC 14 days. And easy to do online. It didn't arrive, so counted myself lucky for once. On 28/06 I did indeed get a PCN. Stating that since I hadn't paid it within the prescribed period it was now ?240. I immediately wrote to them - 1st class post - giving the above reason. Not having received the original PCN. On 14/07 I got a reply effectively saying they didn't believe me and? would apply to the county court if I didn't pay the ?240. Since I sincerely believe I didn't receive the original PCN document, I'm going to fight it. But not to the point of employing legal help. Any tips? -- Dave Plowman?????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road?????????????????????????????????????????????????? 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Dave Plowman?????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road?????????????????????????????????????????????????? 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 14:39:52 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 20:39:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago Message-ID: <6da1e7e7-579a-7ff9-7fab-5c317ba7abad@gmail.com> Long long ago there was a word processor called Wordperfect. It wasn't the first I used, but it was part of my life for a while in the 1980s.? It turns out that you can still buy it - an updated version 40 years on - https://www.wordperfect.com/en/product/home-student/ Not sure why you'd want to, since LibreOffice is free, but still. B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From keithwicksuk at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 14:40:03 2022 From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 20:40:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Contesting an PCN in court. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You have my sympathy. Some good advice here: https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/legal/penalty-charge-notice KW On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 at 14:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > I took the old Rover to a local specialist on 27/04 to have the alloy > wheels removed, shot blasted, and powder coated. Paid over the odds to > use a local firm. > > Only a couple of days later did I remember the garage was within the > ULEZ. And too late to pay it. But did pay it for the return journey > after the work was done, about 10 days later. > > Therefore I was obviously expecting a PCN, and looked out for it. With > this sort of PCN, you get a 50% discount from the ?160 if you pay within > IIRC 14 days. And easy to do online. > > It didn't arrive, so counted myself lucky for once. > > On 28/06 I did indeed get a PCN. Stating that since I hadn't paid it > within the prescribed period it was now ?240. > > I immediately wrote to them - 1st class post - giving the above reason. > Not having received the original PCN. > > On 14/07 I got a reply effectively saying they didn't believe me and > would apply to the county court if I didn't pay the ?240. > > Since I sincerely believe I didn't receive the original PCN document, > I'm going to fight it. But not to the point of employing legal help. > > Any tips? > > -- > > Dave Plowman 020 > 8672 3123 > 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 > 421 304 > London > SW12 8HN > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Wed Jul 20 17:58:34 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 23:58:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <6da1e7e7-579a-7ff9-7fab-5c317ba7abad@gmail.com> References: <6da1e7e7-579a-7ff9-7fab-5c317ba7abad@gmail.com> Message-ID: <62b857c5-ad5a-300f-bf96-f83ca38a262b@davesound.co.uk> Often, the devil you know works best for things like word processing. Has the end result you want really moved on in 40 years? Unlike A/V which is more our subject. So many progs these days may? have all the bells and whistles - but how easy you find them to use may be far more important. Of couse Apple and MS etc are very keen to shift new product, and if that means older progs are tricky or impossible to run, good for business. On 20/07/2022 20:39, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > Long long ago there was a word processor called Wordperfect. It wasn't > the first I used, but it was part of my life for a while in the > 1980s.? It turns out that you can still buy it - an updated version 40 > years on - https://www.wordperfect.com/en/product/home-student/ > > Not sure why you'd want to, since LibreOffice is free, but still. > > B > > -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Wed Jul 20 18:42:36 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 00:42:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Contesting an PCN in court. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <703249c2-4c7f-f271-60f1-5e6d43c0f67b@davesound.co.uk> Thanks Keith. I mentioned it on a local social media group, and seems quite a few have had exactly the same thing with TFL PCNs. Given the PCN document they send to you has considerable 'value' you'd think they'd have a method of confirming delivery. Amazon would, for something that was ?80 minimum. On 20/07/2022 20:40, Keith Wicks wrote: > You have my sympathy. Some good advice here: > > https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/legal/penalty-charge-notice > > KW > > > On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 at 14:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 > wrote: > > ??I took the old Rover to a local specialist on 27/04 to have the > alloy > wheels removed, shot blasted, and powder coated. Paid over the > odds to > use a local firm. > > Only a couple of days later did I remember the garage was within the > ULEZ. And too late to pay it. But did pay it for the return journey > after the work was done, about 10 days later. > > Therefore I was obviously expecting a PCN, and looked out for it. > With > this sort of PCN, you get a 50% discount from the ?160 if you pay > within > IIRC 14 days. And easy to do online. > > It didn't arrive, so counted myself lucky for once. > > On 28/06 I did indeed get a PCN. Stating that since I hadn't paid it > within the prescribed period it was now ?240. > > I immediately wrote to them - 1st class post - giving the above > reason. > Not having received the original PCN. > > On 14/07 I got a reply effectively saying they didn't believe me and > would apply to the county court if I didn't pay the ?240. > > Since I sincerely believe I didn't receive the original PCN document, > I'm going to fight it. But not to the point of employing legal help. > > Any tips? > > -- > > Dave Plowman ? ? ? ?020 8672 3123 > 16 Sarsfeld Road ? ? ? ?07765 421 304 > London > SW12 8HN > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Thu Jul 21 03:29:32 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 09:29:32 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <6da1e7e7-579a-7ff9-7fab-5c317ba7abad@gmail.com> References: <6da1e7e7-579a-7ff9-7fab-5c317ba7abad@gmail.com> Message-ID: That prompted me to check out how my first Mac proper word processor was doing, which I bought in 1989. It was called Nisus and I bought one of the later issues of Nisus 1, only to discover that soon after registration, I qualified for a free upgrade to v2, which in the days before online distribution came on multiple 3? ? floppy disks, together with a massive three ring printed manual more than 10cm thick, with other manuals for the less commonly used features, all of which was posted from America. It had some great features for its day. Non-contiguous selection was terrific. You could cut and paste random bits from one document in just one operation. There was a powerful macro facility which could be used with the already flexible search and replace. I could do things like conditional search and replace, only changing bits of text when other conditions were met. On a very lengthy price list, I got it to automatically calculate and add a percentage to all selling prices of a lengthy catalogue, but rounding them up or down a little if a price came to ?9.97 or ?5.01, while leaving other numbers untouched. It also ignored changes to numbers such as shipping charges. On another occasion, shipping charges were recalculated, while selling prices stayed the same. It really came into its own with larger documents, such as writing books. Right from the early versions it came with a special editor for incredibly complex mathematical expressions. I met a librettist who used Nisus, as at the time it was the best WP to handle text combined with musical notation, but he switched to specialised score writing software once it became available. The main WP handled footnotes, lists of contents and indexing as standard, right from the early days. The multi-lingual Thesaurus came as a separate floppy disk, which you loaded if your computer had sufficient HD storage and RAM ( not always the case in those days ). One particular feature for broadcast people was that it was easy to set up a document to be formatted for a script, with things like artist's names in the LH column, dialogue in the centre and directions on the RHS. Stage directions could appear in all caps and any edits would flow through the document, keeping the correct parts together. Unlike many script creating programs of the day, it supported various styles of script formats, American layouts or ones like the BBC used. I used to work with a woman who created scripts on Nisus. She used the macros to automatically estimate running time for each section and the cumulative running time for the whole show. It only counted dialogue, ignoring words used for artists and stage directions. Assuming three words per second ( but of course that could be tweaked to a couple of decimal places to suit the particular presenter ), it also allowed for taking a breath after each paragraph. She was very pleased to find that once she had worked with the talent for a couple of jobs, she could write scripts for them which would run pretty well perfectly to time, having key points in the delivery happening at predictable moments. For VO work, it meant that the commentary flowed in a very natural way without having pregnant pauses ? waiting for something to happen in the VT. Andrew Sachs was a great fan of hers and he was very keen to have her write his scripts because she made him look so utterly professional - which he was anyway. Apple eventually introduced their own WP, which was by no means as powerful, but still pretty good. Originally it had to be paid for, but has been free for ages now. I got the paid version, mainly for the other applications which came with it and once I found that it was suitable for most of my work, I completely migrated to it because the applications all integrate so well with each other and the operating system too. I still miss some of the Nisus features. I looked to see how Nisus is doing because I haven?t noticed any advertising for it recently. Not only is it still available, but it has been continually updated every year or so and now runs natively on the new Apple ARM CPUs and of course now includes a wealth of new features. If I were to quote my original serial number, I could still get the newest version for a $40 upgrade fee, despite having paid for my original version 33 years ago. The downloaded demo version is the full version and comes with an online manual so I might well try it out. The only restriction with the demo version seems to be that it adds a visible watermark when you print or export files. Alan > On 20 Jul 2022, at 20:40, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? Long long ago there was a word processor called Wordperfect. It wasn't the first I used, but it was part of my life for a while in the 1980s. It turns out that you can still buy it - an updated version 40 years on - https://www.wordperfect.com/en/product/home-student/ > > Not sure why you'd want to, since LibreOffice is free, but still. > > B > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jul 21 03:57:42 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 09:57:42 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Contesting an PCN in court. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dealing with intransigent Government Departments does require legal help. I'm reminded of when I had to become VAT registered. At the time I was using my parent's address in the IoW, so had to attend the Customs office in Portsmouth. The officer who interviewed me had come straight out of the Customs shed of the ferry terminal, all hawk nose and steely eyes. He asked how I proposed to apportion expenses between business and personal - I replied that the Inland Revenue were happy with my making it 50/50. He fixed me with a fierce glare and said: "I think you'll find that we are somewhat more precise than Inland Revenue!" So leading to complicated calculations for my quarterly returns, armed with a shower of blue booklets for all the different items which carried VAT. Now that HMRC is a combination of Customs & Excise and Tax, I wonder if life is now simpler? Probably not. Dave, what about saying that their ?240 letter is an obvious scam and has been consigned to the shredder! (as well as reported to Action Fraud!). Pat On 20/07/2022 18:21, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > These things aren't even sent recorded deliver. However, I'm single > and have a semi-detached house with own front door and letterbox. And > a truly excellent postman. And of course I was expecting it. So my > best bet - not sent or lost in the post. That is assuming it comes via > RM. > > I stayed in yesterday due to the heat, so used my time to write to my > MP. Never done this before. Be interesting to see her response. > > On 20/07/2022 15:05, Alasdair Lawrance wrote: >> Start off by asking them for proof of delivery, not proof of posting. >> >> Alasdair Lawrance >> >> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. >> >> >> >>> On 20 Jul 2022, at 14:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 >>> wrote: >>> >>> ? I took the old Rover to a local specialist on 27/04 to have the >>> alloy wheels removed, shot blasted, and powder coated. Paid over the >>> odds to use a local firm. >>> >>> Only a couple of days later did I remember the garage was within the >>> ULEZ. And too late to pay it. But did pay it for the return journey >>> after the work was done, about 10 days later. >>> >>> Therefore I was obviously expecting a PCN, and looked out for it. >>> With this sort of PCN, you get a 50% discount from the ?160 if you >>> pay within IIRC 14 days. And easy to do online. >>> >>> It didn't arrive, so counted myself lucky for once. >>> >>> On 28/06 I did indeed get a PCN. Stating that since I hadn't paid it >>> within the prescribed period it was now ?240. >>> >>> I immediately wrote to them - 1st class post - giving the above >>> reason. Not having received the original PCN. >>> >>> On 14/07 I got a reply effectively saying they didn't believe me >>> and? would apply to the county court if I didn't pay the ?240. >>> >>> Since I sincerely believe I didn't receive the original PCN >>> document, I'm going to fight it. But not to the point of employing >>> legal help. >>> >>> Any tips? >>> > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Thu Jul 21 04:13:49 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 10:13:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <62b857c5-ad5a-300f-bf96-f83ca38a262b@davesound.co.uk> References: <6da1e7e7-579a-7ff9-7fab-5c317ba7abad@gmail.com> <62b857c5-ad5a-300f-bf96-f83ca38a262b@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: <6c190e21-1b4b-8889-bf35-3b1344cffb1a@chriswoolf.co.uk> The devil you know may be easy to deal with, but nowadays we have to deal with everyone else's devils too. We send and receive documents because life enforces that on us. Thus not using one of the accepted standard programs becomes something that only the extreme isolationist would advocate. Anything that is not compatible, in every sense, with Excel, Word, etc (as Libre Office is) makes no sense. Chris Woolf On 20/07/2022 23:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > Often, the devil you know works best for things like word processing. > Has the end result you want really moved on in 40 years? Unlike A/V > which is more our subject. > > So many progs these days may? have all the bells and whistles - but > how easy you find them to use may be far more important. > > Of couse Apple and MS etc are very keen to shift new product, and if > that means older progs are tricky or impossible to run, good for business. > > On 20/07/2022 20:39, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >> Long long ago there was a word processor called Wordperfect. It >> wasn't the first I used, but it was part of my life for a while in >> the 1980s.? It turns out that you can still buy it - an updated >> version 40 years on - >> https://www.wordperfect.com/en/product/home-student/ >> >> Not sure why you'd want to, since LibreOffice is free, but still. >> >> B >> >> > -- > > Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 > 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 > London > SW12 8HN > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Thu Jul 21 04:39:15 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 10:39:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <6c190e21-1b4b-8889-bf35-3b1344cffb1a@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <6da1e7e7-579a-7ff9-7fab-5c317ba7abad@gmail.com> <62b857c5-ad5a-300f-bf96-f83ca38a262b@davesound.co.uk> <6c190e21-1b4b-8889-bf35-3b1344cffb1a@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <6d2874ce-001b-f3c4-c1c3-2e3c0c81aa96@davesound.co.uk> It was part of my point. Didn't newer versions of Word refuse to load older files? At one time? But the requirement for a pure electronic document may be very different from one designed? for the printer. And we were discussing word processors. Which were initially designed for the print world. On 21/07/2022 10:13, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > The devil you know may be easy to deal with, but nowadays we have to > deal with everyone else's devils too. We send and receive documents > because life enforces that on us. Thus not using one of the accepted > standard programs becomes something that only the extreme isolationist > would advocate. > > Anything that is not compatible, in every sense, with Excel, Word, etc > (as Libre Office is) makes no sense. > > Chris Woolf > > > On 20/07/2022 23:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Often, the devil you know works best for things like word processing. >> Has the end result you want really moved on in 40 years? Unlike A/V >> which is more our subject. >> >> So many progs these days may? have all the bells and whistles - but >> how easy you find them to use may be far more important. >> >> Of couse Apple and MS etc are very keen to shift new product, and if >> that means older progs are tricky or impossible to run, good for >> business. >> >> On 20/07/2022 20:39, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >>> Long long ago there was a word processor called Wordperfect. It >>> wasn't the first I used, but it was part of my life for a while in >>> the 1980s.? It turns out that you can still buy it - an updated >>> version 40 years on - >>> https://www.wordperfect.com/en/product/home-student/ >>> >>> Not sure why you'd want to, since LibreOffice is free, but still. >>> >>> B >>> >>> >> -- >> >> Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 >> 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 >> London >> SW12 8HN >> > -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ian.norman at armoor.co.uk Thu Jul 21 04:39:54 2022 From: ian.norman at armoor.co.uk (Ian Norman) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 10:39:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <62b857c5-ad5a-300f-bf96-f83ca38a262b@davesound.co.uk> References: <6da1e7e7-579a-7ff9-7fab-5c317ba7abad@gmail.com> <62b857c5-ad5a-300f-bf96-f83ca38a262b@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: At the time Word Perfect on DOS was significantly better than any of it's rivals. Sadly the later release for Microsoft Windows was buggy. Word '.doc' became the standard and '.wpd' documents disappeared into history. Stay safe Ian Norman Email: mailto:ian.norman at armoor.co.uk Telephone: 01643 888181 On 20/07/2022 23:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > Often, the devil you know works best for things like word processing. > Has the end result you want really moved on in 40 years? Unlike A/V > which is more our subject. > > So many progs these days may? have all the bells and whistles - but how > easy you find them to use may be far more important. > > Of couse Apple and MS etc are very keen to shift new product, and if > that means older progs are tricky or impossible to run, good for business. > > On 20/07/2022 20:39, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >> Long long ago there was a word processor called Wordperfect. It wasn't >> the first I used, but it was part of my life for a while in the >> 1980s.? It turns out that you can still buy it - an updated version 40 >> years on - https://www.wordperfect.com/en/product/home-student/ >> >> Not sure why you'd want to, since LibreOffice is free, but still. >> >> B >> >> > -- > > Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 > 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 > London > SW12 8HN > > From bernie833 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 04:42:07 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 10:42:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <6c190e21-1b4b-8889-bf35-3b1344cffb1a@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <6da1e7e7-579a-7ff9-7fab-5c317ba7abad@gmail.com> <62b857c5-ad5a-300f-bf96-f83ca38a262b@davesound.co.uk> <6c190e21-1b4b-8889-bf35-3b1344cffb1a@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <5a7d521d-b9d6-67ae-5cb6-312a2ece2223@ntlworld.com> Yes, entirely - so all docs that we send from here are in .docx format. A slight downside is that word processors aren't good document processors, and I use Affinity Publisher for those, and send to others as .PDFs.? I can recommend the software - it's not expensive, and it does all that fancy stuff with page layout for complex publications, though I don't need that. B On 21/07/2022 10:13, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > The devil you know may be easy to deal with, but nowadays we have to > deal with everyone else's devils too. We send and receive documents > because life enforces that on us. Thus not using one of the accepted > standard programs becomes something that only the extreme isolationist > would advocate. > > Anything that is not compatible, in every sense, with Excel, Word, etc > (as Libre Office is) makes no sense. > > Chris Woolf > > > On 20/07/2022 23:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Often, the devil you know works best for things like word processing. >> Has the end result you want really moved on in 40 years? Unlike A/V >> which is more our subject. >> >> So many progs these days may? have all the bells and whistles - but >> how easy you find them to use may be far more important. >> >> Of couse Apple and MS etc are very keen to shift new product, and if >> that means older progs are tricky or impossible to run, good for >> business. >> >> On 20/07/2022 20:39, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >>> Long long ago there was a word processor called Wordperfect. It >>> wasn't the first I used, but it was part of my life for a while in >>> the 1980s.? It turns out that you can still buy it - an updated >>> version 40 years on - >>> https://www.wordperfect.com/en/product/home-student/ >>> >>> Not sure why you'd want to, since LibreOffice is free, but still. >>> >>> B >>> >>> >> -- >> >> Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 >> 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 >> London >> SW12 8HN >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doug at puddifoot.me Thu Jul 21 05:00:57 2022 From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 11:00:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Contesting an PCN in court. Message-ID: It only has value to you, to them delivery has inverse value. If it fails they get more money. So why would they pay extra to confirm delivery. Doug On 21 July 2022, at 00:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: Thanks Keith. I mentioned it on a local social media group, and seems quite a few have had exactly the same thing with TFL PCNs.? Given the PCN document they send to you has considerable 'value' you'd think they'd have a method of confirming delivery. Amazon would, for something that was ?80 minimum. On 20/07/2022 20:40, Keith Wicks wrote: You have my sympathy. Some good advice here: https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/legal/penalty-charge-notice KW On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 at 14:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: ??I took the old Rover to a local specialist on 27/04 to have the alloy wheels removed, shot blasted, and powder coated. Paid over the odds to use a local firm. Only a couple of days later did I remember the garage was within the ULEZ. And too late to pay it. But did pay it for the return journey after the work was done, about 10 days later. Therefore I was obviously expecting a PCN, and looked out for it. With this sort of PCN, you get a 50% discount from the ?160 if you pay within IIRC 14 days. And easy to do online. It didn't arrive, so counted myself lucky for once. On 28/06 I did indeed get a PCN. Stating that since I hadn't paid it within the prescribed period it was now ?240. I immediately wrote to them - 1st class post - giving the above reason. Not having received the original PCN. On 14/07 I got a reply effectively saying they didn't believe me and? would apply to the county court if I didn't pay the ?240. Since I sincerely believe I didn't receive the original PCN document, I'm going to fight it. But not to the point of employing legal help. Any tips? -- Dave Plowman? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jul 21 05:33:56 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 11:33:56 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <6c190e21-1b4b-8889-bf35-3b1344cffb1a@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <6da1e7e7-579a-7ff9-7fab-5c317ba7abad@gmail.com> <62b857c5-ad5a-300f-bf96-f83ca38a262b@davesound.co.uk> <6c190e21-1b4b-8889-bf35-3b1344cffb1a@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <3d989ea5-c9ce-359d-0472-577c2a3d2253@amps.net> Ah! But have we realised that gurus of Apple and particularly Microsoft are insidiously controlling our lives, by insisting we have to buy their products. (If we wish to play with computers). This echoes what Chris Woolf has said. I've mentioned before, a novel by James Patterson "The Store" which is set in a village, under total control of 'the company' which employs all the residents - they are 'told' what to buy, where to worship, send the kids to school, etc. Think Amazon, when you read the book. A corollary: towns sprang up around mines, to cater for the mineworkers - housing, schools, shops, churches. Close the mines - town is now superflouous. And people get upset? No mine, no reason for the town anymore. Thought: We are concerned about landfill for rubbish disposal. How about filling up the old mine workings. Perhaps the old conveyors, if still there, could be reversed to feed black bags to the extreme ends. Maybe badly sorted rubbish might generate methane gas which wouldn't half make a hole in the bottom of the North Sea, for those workings that extend off the NE coast! For a bit of a laff - here's a list of Sports gaffes, but we've seen them before - never mind - we are used to repeats! Pat On 21/07/2022 10:13, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > The devil you know may be easy to deal with, but nowadays we have to > deal with everyone else's devils too. We send and receive documents > because life enforces that on us. Thus not using one of the accepted > standard programs becomes something that only the extreme isolationist > would advocate. > > Anything that is not compatible, in every sense, with Excel, Word, etc > (as Libre Office is) makes no sense. > > Chris Woolf > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Sports gaffes.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 30099 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Thu Jul 21 05:38:52 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 11:38:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <6c190e21-1b4b-8889-bf35-3b1344cffb1a@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <6c190e21-1b4b-8889-bf35-3b1344cffb1a@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: One of the oddities of using WPs for Apple computers was that it was understood that few other users would be using the same WP, therefore the ability to import and export in other formats was essential and worked very reliably. There was a time when Word was notoriously bad at creating files which couldn?t be opened in other versions. Companies would send out a call sheet as a Word file and freelancers who used a different version of Word couldn?t open it. The standard workaround was for them to contact a Mac user who could import the call sheet into their WP and then export it again. Fortunately most call sheets are now sent as PDF files, which solves most of those problems. Alan > On 21 Jul 2022, at 10:14, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > The devil you know may be easy to deal with, but nowadays we have to deal with everyone else's devils too. We send and receive documents because life enforces that on us. Thus not using one of the accepted standard programs becomes something that only the extreme isolationist would advocate. > > Anything that is not compatible, in every sense, with Excel, Word, etc (as Libre Office is) makes no sense. > > Chris Woolf > > > > On 20/07/2022 23:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> Often, the devil you know works best for things like word processing. Has the end result you want really moved on in 40 years? Unlike A/V which is more our subject. >> >> So many progs these days may have all the bells and whistles - but how easy you find them to use may be far more important. >> >> Of couse Apple and MS etc are very keen to shift new product, and if that means older progs are tricky or impossible to run, good for business. >> >> On 20/07/2022 20:39, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >>> Long long ago there was a word processor called Wordperfect. It wasn't the first I used, but it was part of my life for a while in the 1980s. It turns out that you can still buy it - an updated version 40 years on - https://www.wordperfect.com/en/product/home-student/ >>> >>> Not sure why you'd want to, since LibreOffice is free, but still. >>> >>> B >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> >> Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 >> 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 >> London >> SW12 8HN >> >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 06:03:10 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 12:03:10 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <3d989ea5-c9ce-359d-0472-577c2a3d2253@amps.net> References: <6da1e7e7-579a-7ff9-7fab-5c317ba7abad@gmail.com> <62b857c5-ad5a-300f-bf96-f83ca38a262b@davesound.co.uk> <6c190e21-1b4b-8889-bf35-3b1344cffb1a@chriswoolf.co.uk> <3d989ea5-c9ce-359d-0472-577c2a3d2253@amps.net> Message-ID: <21296d35-908d-0299-49dc-b90f091121f0@ntlworld.com> You don't have to buy their products at all.? There are lots of Linux distros you can pick from. Linux is a very solid save operating system which is largely free to use. For those who just need a browser, email and office software it's all there in the download. B On 21/07/2022 11:33, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > Ah! But have we realised that gurus of Apple and particularly > Microsoft are insidiously controlling our lives, by insisting we have > to buy their products. (If we wish to play with computers). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Thu Jul 21 06:24:30 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 12:24:30 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <6d2874ce-001b-f3c4-c1c3-2e3c0c81aa96@davesound.co.uk> References: <6da1e7e7-579a-7ff9-7fab-5c317ba7abad@gmail.com> <62b857c5-ad5a-300f-bf96-f83ca38a262b@davesound.co.uk> <6c190e21-1b4b-8889-bf35-3b1344cffb1a@chriswoolf.co.uk> <6d2874ce-001b-f3c4-c1c3-2e3c0c81aa96@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: On 21/07/2022 10:39, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > It was part of my point. Didn't newer versions of Word refuse to load > older files? At one time? > I think Microsoft have always produced converters, sometimes as add-ons, for almost all word processor formats, and my (oldish) version of Word allows 17 format options for saving, and 16 options for opening (including Word Perfect). It will even scrape off the text of a Works 2 (.wps) file from about 30 years ago. The presence of LibreOffice pretty well ensures a high degree of interoperability. Much the same applies to 3D drawing, which is a lot more complicated to translate. Solidworks and its derivatives, and Autodesk and its derivatives, go to immense efforts to allow as much interaction as feasible. Interestingly printers, which used to have to interact with different WP programs on a frighteningly individual basis, have long since standardised on HP's PCL commands - again using a /de facto /standard, in preference to anything else. Although Apple still tries quite hard to control software, often giving it a limited life by updating/outdating the OS, it isn't a technique that Microsoft can be condemned for - they maintain a staggering backwards compatibility for most products. And, as Bernie reminds us, there is Linux and Linux derived Open Source stuff that makes proprietorial marketing techniques voluntary for users. Indeed Apple's prime method it to create a level of product envy that keeps users in the brand fold. IBM tried that decades ago... and in the end it failed. Chris Woolf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Thu Jul 21 07:15:26 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 13:15:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <3d989ea5-c9ce-359d-0472-577c2a3d2253@amps.net> References: <3d989ea5-c9ce-359d-0472-577c2a3d2253@amps.net> Message-ID: <8603D5F9-5D4D-474E-B2B2-EF05D0A155AF@me.com> Hardware goes into landfill, not software, but it?s the software which can limit the effective working life of the hardware. I bought my current iMac in 2009 and it?s been in daily use as my main computer ever since. That?s not a bad working life, especially when you consider that at no time has it had any upgrades or repairs, other than when I maxed out the RAM the day I bought it. It has reached an age where it will no longer run the latest version of the operating system and therefore can?t run some of the newer software, so I?m planning on replacing it later this year, when a particular new model is anticipated. By then it will still have a worthwhile resale value. Even when it gets scrapped, it was designed to be recycled as far as was possible in those days. The housing is almost entirely aluminium or glass and many of the materials used to build the internals can be recycled. For iPhones, Apple has for the last few years been using robots which dismantle various models of iPhone. They recover and sort everything which can be recycled. This sort of scheme is easier for Apple as they have only ever made a limited range of phones, but sold each model in vast numbers. Automatically recycling a large number of identical phones is a much easier proposition than trying to deal with hundreds of different models. Recycling a large amount of an obscure material is still financially viable because markets can be found for almost anything in quantity, once it?s separated from everything else. Doing it automatically without employing labour makes a big difference. Phones designed to be built using automation can also be dismantled by machines. Some old Macs end up running Linux ( OSX was originally based on Linux anyway ) and will keep running for many more years if the user doesn?t need to use the Apple-specific features such as total integration with iPhones, iPads, Siri or home automation. It?s a great way to fully exploit the longevity of the hardware, especially for users with undemanding computing requirements. Linux is amazingly versatile and powerful. It?s used by people with limited computational needs and also by scientists with demanding and sophisticated requirements. As for your suggestion about mines. While open cast mines leave massive holes in the ground, the hole in the ground left by a conventional mine isn?t as big as you might imagine and is a pretty inconvenient shape for filling up with bin bags. It?s much better to minimise chucking stuff away and then to sort out what can be recycled before disposing of it. When I lived at Newbury, I was aware of two landfill sites which gave off methane gas, one by the A4 opposite Max cafe and the other opposite the Newbury Tesco superstore. In both cases they used to vent or burn the escaping methane, but now collect it to power generators feeding into the grid. I?m told that the amount of power is relatively small, but enough to be worthwhile and was certainly better than venting excess methane straight into the atmosphere. One of the oddities which amuses me about modern life is that huge holes in the ground used to be a liability, but now they are a valuable resource, either for filling with water or rubbish. On the other hand tall, sticky-up things like factory chimneys also used to be a liability, but are now very much sought after as sites for mobile phone transmitter aerials. Alan > On 21 Jul 2022, at 11:34, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > Ah! But have we realised that gurus of Apple and particularly Microsoft are insidiously controlling our lives, by insisting we have to buy their products. (If we wish to play with computers). > > This echoes what Chris Woolf has said. > > I've mentioned before, a novel by James Patterson "The Store" which is set in a village, under total control of 'the company' which employs all the residents - they are 'told' what to buy, where to worship, send the kids to school, etc. Think Amazon, when you read the book. > > A corollary: towns sprang up around mines, to cater for the mineworkers - housing, schools, shops, churches. Close the mines - town is now superflouous. And people get upset? No mine, no reason for the town anymore. > > Thought: We are concerned about landfill for rubbish disposal. How about filling up the old mine workings. Perhaps the old conveyors, if still there, could be reversed to feed black bags to the extreme ends. > > Maybe badly sorted rubbish might generate methane gas which wouldn't half make a hole in the bottom of the North Sea, for those workings that extend off the NE coast! > > For a bit of a laff - here's a list of Sports gaffes, but we've seen them before - never mind - we are used to repeats! > > Pat > > > > > > > > On 21/07/2022 10:13, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >> The devil you know may be easy to deal with, but nowadays we have to deal with everyone else's devils too. We send and receive documents because life enforces that on us. Thus not using one of the accepted standard programs becomes something that only the extreme isolationist would advocate. >> >> Anything that is not compatible, in every sense, with Excel, Word, etc (as Libre Office is) makes no sense. >> >> Chris Woolf >> > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Sports gaffes.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 30098 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Thu Jul 21 08:00:08 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 14:00:08 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Contesting an PCN in court. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh so true. Chatted to my postman today and asked if he'd heard of similar. Several times, he said. I'm not one generally for conspiracy theories, but given how TFL try to screw the motorist at every turn, I'm beginning to think it may be one. On 21/07/2022 11:00, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 wrote: > > It only has value to you, to them delivery has inverse value. If it > fails they get more money. So why would they pay extra to confirm > delivery. > > Doug > > > > On 21 July 2022, at 00:42, Dave Plowman via Tech1 > wrote: > > > Thanks Keith. I mentioned it on a local social media group, and seems > quite a few have had exactly the same thing with TFL PCNs.? Given the > PCN document they send to you has considerable 'value' you'd think > they'd have a method of confirming delivery. Amazon would, for > something that was ?80 minimum. > > On 20/07/2022 20:40, Keith Wicks wrote: >> You have my sympathy. Some good advice here: >> >> https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/legal/penalty-charge-notice >> >> KW >> >> >> On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 at 14:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ??I took the old Rover to a local specialist on 27/04 to have the >> alloy >> wheels removed, shot blasted, and powder coated. Paid over the >> odds to >> use a local firm. >> >> Only a couple of days later did I remember the garage was within the >> ULEZ. And too late to pay it. But did pay it for the return journey >> after the work was done, about 10 days later. >> >> Therefore I was obviously expecting a PCN, and looked out for it. >> With >> this sort of PCN, you get a 50% discount from the ?160 if you pay >> within >> IIRC 14 days. And easy to do online. >> >> It didn't arrive, so counted myself lucky for once. >> >> On 28/06 I did indeed get a PCN. Stating that since I hadn't paid it >> within the prescribed period it was now ?240. >> >> I immediately wrote to them - 1st class post - giving the above >> reason. >> Not having received the original PCN. >> >> On 14/07 I got a reply effectively saying they didn't believe me and >> would apply to the county court if I didn't pay the ?240. >> >> Since I sincerely believe I didn't receive the original PCN >> document, >> I'm going to fight it. But not to the point of employing legal help. >> >> Any tips? >> >> -- >> >> Dave Plowman ? ? ? ? ?020 8672 3123 >> 16 Sarsfeld Road ? ? ? ? ?07765 421 304 >> London >> SW12 8HN >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > -- > > Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 > 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 > London > SW12 8HN > -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 08:11:23 2022 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 14:11:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: References: <6da1e7e7-579a-7ff9-7fab-5c317ba7abad@gmail.com> <62b857c5-ad5a-300f-bf96-f83ca38a262b@davesound.co.uk> <6c190e21-1b4b-8889-bf35-3b1344cffb1a@chriswoolf.co.uk> <6d2874ce-001b-f3c4-c1c3-2e3c0c81aa96@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: <6dbf0bff-dc1b-a0f9-eaeb-93f216380abb@gmail.com> Hi all On 21/07/2022 12:24, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > Microsoft .... maintain a staggering backwards compatibility for most > products This may be the case now, but it was not always thus.? Around the introduction and development of personal computers - say 1985 for a decade or so - Microsoft was renowned for DLL-hell.? DLLs - or Dynamic Linked Libraries - are routines that contain code and data that can be used by more than one program at the same time. A typical example is the Comdlg32 DLL in Windows, which does most of the common dialog box functions.? You don't need to repeat that code in every application - simply invoke the DLL.? In theory it results in a smaller code base. Fine, except that Microsoft in those early days would royally stuff developers, by missing out functions calls, or change the parameters of a function call, or change the behaviour of a function. It got so bad that developers were going back to static library functions... In many many areas of computing, companies tried to tie in users to their proprietary offerings, so in the early days of personal computing there was little in the way of common standards - you could more or less pick your own.? Gradually, proprietary interfaces were abandoned and a common interface agreed.? Exactly the same happened with automobiles - the Clutch, Brake, Accelerator pattern came about after various companies had their own ideas, with problems when users tried to change vehicles!! And yet STILL we see companies trying to impose their own way of doing thing, even when there is a recognised suitable "standard"..? Oh dear ... -- ======= Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Mob: 07789 561 346 Tel: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.jasma at sky.com Thu Jul 21 08:22:13 2022 From: david.jasma at sky.com (Dave Buckley) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 14:22:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago - word processors In-Reply-To: <6d2874ce-001b-f3c4-c1c3-2e3c0c81aa96@davesound.co.uk> References: <6da1e7e7-579a-7ff9-7fab-5c317ba7abad@gmail.com> <62b857c5-ad5a-300f-bf96-f83ca38a262b@davesound.co.uk> <6c190e21-1b4b-8889-bf35-3b1344cffb1a@chriswoolf.co.uk> <6d2874ce-001b-f3c4-c1c3-2e3c0c81aa96@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: My first word-processor was Wordwise for the BBC Micro. It came as ROM which you plugged into a spare socket inside the machine. For its time it was quite versatile. By using control codes you could switch type size, make type italic or bold, or any combination of these by combining the control codes. Of course, at first this was using a dot matrix printer, then I graduated to an early bubblejet. Later I bought a JUKI daisy wheel printer which produced excellent results, but nearly shook the house apart when printing! Both my wife and I use MS Word for letters, but for producing newsletters and anything that requires illustrations, then something like MS Publisher is required, particularly as to the ease of positioning illustrations within text and next to text. When I first started with Publisher, I found it had a steep learning curve, but as my wife was already a dab hand at using it, I only had put my head round the door of her home office to get assistance! As for sending out material in a standard form, I use PDF (portable document format). You don't have to use Adobe's program to display material in this format as there are many of other programs available. Dave Buckley -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From bernie833 at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 08:37:43 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 14:37:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <8603D5F9-5D4D-474E-B2B2-EF05D0A155AF@me.com> References: <3d989ea5-c9ce-359d-0472-577c2a3d2253@amps.net> <8603D5F9-5D4D-474E-B2B2-EF05D0A155AF@me.com> Message-ID: Since 1998 this computer has had two cases -? and many motherboards, processors, graphics cards, memory sticks, drives. several ever bigger power supplies, bigger heat sinks.? You just take out the bits that you don't want and put in new.? Sort of like fancy Lego. I've built a good few systems now for myself and others. No Kool-Aid here. I just replaced my GTX960 graphics card with an RTX3060. "How long will it take you to replace?" a friend asked. I timed it - 20 minutes from turning the machine off to turning it back on a again. It then thought "Oooh, new gear here" and loaded the correct drivers. It then got a little fiddly, because I have a slightly oddly arranged two monitor system, but it soon got its act together. I sold the old graphics card to a member of the local Linux group for ?80. Hopefully Linux saw it and was happy. B On 21/07/2022 13:15, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > Hardware goes into landfill, not software, but it?s the software which > can limit the effective working life of the hardware. ?I bought my > current iMac in 2009 and it?s been in daily use as my main computer > ever since. ?That?s not a bad working life, especially when you > consider that at no time has it had any upgrades or repairs, other > than when I maxed out the RAM the day I bought it. > > It has reached an age where it will no longer run the latest version > of the operating system and therefore can?t run some of the newer > software, so I?m planning on replacing it later this year, when a > particular new model is anticipated. ?By then it will still have a > worthwhile resale value. Even when it gets scrapped, it was designed > to be recycled as far as was possible in those days. ?The housing is > almost entirely aluminium or glass and many of the materials used to > build the internals can be recycled. > > For iPhones, Apple has for the last few years been using robots which > dismantle various models of iPhone. They recover and sort everything > which can be recycled. This sort of scheme is easier for Apple as they > have only ever made a limited range of phones, but sold each model in > vast numbers. Automatically recycling a large number of identical > phones is a much easier proposition than trying to deal with hundreds > of different models. Recycling a large amount of an obscure material > is still financially viable because markets can be found for almost > anything in quantity, once it?s separated from everything else. Doing > it automatically without employing labour makes a big difference. > Phones designed to be built using automation can also be dismantled by > machines. > > Some old Macs end up running Linux ( OSX was originally based on Linux > anyway ) and will keep running for many more years if the user doesn?t > need to use the Apple-specific features such as total integration with > iPhones, iPads, Siri or home automation. ?It?s a great way to fully > exploit the longevity of the hardware, especially for users with > undemanding computing requirements. Linux is amazingly versatile and > powerful. It?s used by people with limited computational needs and > also by scientists with demanding and sophisticated requirements. > > As for your suggestion about mines. ?While open cast mines leave > massive holes in the ground, the hole in the ground left by a > conventional mine isn?t as big as you might imagine and is a pretty > inconvenient shape for filling up with bin bags. It?s much better to > minimise chucking stuff away and then to sort out what can be recycled > before disposing of it. > > When I lived at Newbury, I was aware of two landfill sites which gave > off methane gas, one by the A4 opposite Max cafe and the other > opposite the Newbury Tesco superstore. In both cases they used to vent > or burn the escaping methane, but now collect it to power generators > feeding into the grid. ?I?m told that the amount of power is > relatively small, but enough to be worthwhile and was certainly better > than venting excess methane straight into the atmosphere. > > One of the oddities which amuses me about modern life is that huge > holes in the ground used to be a liability, but now they are a > valuable resource, either for filling with water or rubbish. ?On the > other hand tall, sticky-up things like factory chimneys also used to > be a liability, but are now very much sought after as sites for mobile > phone transmitter aerials. > > Alan > > >> On 21 Jul 2022, at 11:34, Pat Heigham via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? >> >> Ah! But have we realised that gurus of Apple and particularly >> Microsoft are insidiously controlling our lives, by insisting we have >> to buy their products. (If we wish to play with computers). >> >> This echoes what Chris Woolf has said. >> >> I've mentioned before, a novel by James Patterson "The Store" which >> is set in a village, under total control of 'the company' which >> employs all the residents - they are 'told' what to buy, where to >> worship, send the kids to school, etc. Think Amazon, when you read >> the book. >> >> A corollary: towns sprang up around mines, to cater for the >> mineworkers - housing, schools, shops, churches.? Close the mines - >> town is now superflouous. And people get upset? No mine, no reason >> for the town anymore. >> >> Thought: We are concerned about landfill for rubbish disposal. How >> about filling up the old mine workings. Perhaps the old conveyors, if >> still there, could be reversed to feed black bags to the extreme ends. >> >> Maybe badly sorted rubbish might generate methane gas which wouldn't >> half make a hole in the bottom of the North Sea, for those workings >> that extend off the NE coast! >> >> For a bit of a laff - here's a list of Sports gaffes, but we've seen >> them before - never mind - we are used to repeats! >> >> Pat >> >> >> >> >> On 21/07/2022 10:13, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> The devil you know may be easy to deal with, but nowadays we have to >>> deal with everyone else's devils too. We send and receive documents >>> because life enforces that on us. Thus not using one of the accepted >>> standard programs becomes something that only the extreme >>> isolationist would advocate. >>> >>> Anything that is not compatible, in every sense, with Excel, Word, >>> etc (as Libre Office is) makes no sense. >>> >>> Chris Woolf >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Avast logo >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> www.avast.com >> >> >> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Thu Jul 21 11:15:26 2022 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 17:15:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <6dbf0bff-dc1b-a0f9-eaeb-93f216380abb@gmail.com> References: <6dbf0bff-dc1b-a0f9-eaeb-93f216380abb@gmail.com> Message-ID: <73B8AFB5-E2E3-4F40-9F7D-9BDB3D176B53@icloud.com> I also have a vintage iMac that I am looking to upgrade. Which machine were you anticipating being released later this year? Graeme Wall > On 21 Jul 2022, at 14:11, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > Hi all > > On 21/07/2022 12:24, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >> Microsoft .... maintain a staggering backwards compatibility for most products > This may be the case now, but it was not always thus. Around the introduction and development of personal computers - say 1985 for a decade or so - Microsoft was renowned for DLL-hell. DLLs - or Dynamic Linked Libraries - are routines that contain code and data that can be used by more than one program at the same time. A typical example is the Comdlg32 DLL in Windows, which does most of the common dialog box functions. You don't need to repeat that code in every application - simply invoke the DLL. In theory it results in a smaller code base. > > Fine, except that Microsoft in those early days would royally stuff developers, by missing out functions calls, or change the parameters of a function call, or change the behaviour of a function. It got so bad that developers were going back to static library functions... > > In many many areas of computing, companies tried to tie in users to their proprietary offerings, so in the early days of personal computing there was little in the way of common standards - you could more or less pick your own. Gradually, proprietary interfaces were abandoned and a common interface agreed. Exactly the same happened with automobiles - the Clutch, Brake, Accelerator pattern came about after various companies had their own ideas, with problems when users tried to change vehicles!! > > And yet STILL we see companies trying to impose their own way of doing thing, even when there is a recognised suitable "standard".. Oh dear ... > > > > -- > ======= > > Alec Bray > > alec.bray.2 at gmail.com > Mob: 07789 561 346 > Tel: 0118 981 7502 > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Thu Jul 21 12:15:22 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 18:15:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <73B8AFB5-E2E3-4F40-9F7D-9BDB3D176B53@icloud.com> References: <73B8AFB5-E2E3-4F40-9F7D-9BDB3D176B53@icloud.com> Message-ID: I?ve decided that for my purposes, the best solution is to go the way of HiFi separates. Instead of another integrated iMac with everything in the box, my needs will be best met by getting a decent monitor and a separate Mac mini with Apple?s new M2 ARM processor. A laptop screen is smaller than I would like and although they easily drive external screens, I prefer the main screen to be the larger one. I no longer need the portability of a laptop because I use an iPad to do most of what I used to do on a laptop, however there are a few applications which need to run on OSX rather than on IOS, mostly applications using file management, or connecting to external peripherals, so I can?t do absolutely everything on an iPad and external monitor either, although that could change if IOS and OSX were to converge a little more, which seems possible as either operating system can now run on the same chip. The price of an iMac is actually quite competitive compared to buying a Mac mini, monitor, keyboard and mouse, it might even be a touch cheaper if you were to get a monitor which can match the spec of the screen built into an iMac. However once I?ve done that, any future upgrades will only need the Mac mini to be changed ( about ?700 these days ) and the way I have my system set up, my TV can be swung over to act as an additional HDMI screen if I want more screen area, or if the monitor failed. The Mac mini has an HDMI socket, so will form part of my AV system anyway and can stream elsewhere in the house wirelessly anyway. An all in one iMac has worked well for me so far, as have other ones before it, but now my needs have changed, I think it?s now time to go back to having a computer in a separate box. Most storage is already external to my computer on a NAS. I don?t need to buy a computer with a massive HD, just something which is fast, compact, power efficient and likely to last for the next decade. Alan > On 21 Jul 2022, at 17:15, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: > > ?I also have a vintage iMac that I am looking to upgrade. Which machine were you anticipating being released later this year? > > Graeme Wall > From graeme.wall at icloud.com Thu Jul 21 14:09:15 2022 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 20:09:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Exactly mirrors my thoughts, I?m looking at the Mac mini as well. I?ve not used a NAS before so have to do some research for the optimum solution. Got to be easy to set up for a simple cameraman! Graeme Wall > On 21 Jul 2022, at 18:15, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > > ?I?ve decided that for my purposes, the best solution is to go the way of HiFi separates. Instead of another integrated iMac with everything in the box, my needs will be best met by getting a decent monitor and a separate Mac mini with Apple?s new M2 ARM processor. > > A laptop screen is smaller than I would like and although they easily drive external screens, I prefer the main screen to be the larger one. I no longer need the portability of a laptop because I use an iPad to do most of what I used to do on a laptop, however there are a few applications which need to run on OSX rather than on IOS, mostly applications using file management, or connecting to external peripherals, so I can?t do absolutely everything on an iPad and external monitor either, although that could change if IOS and OSX were to converge a little more, which seems possible as either operating system can now run on the same chip. > > The price of an iMac is actually quite competitive compared to buying a Mac mini, monitor, keyboard and mouse, it might even be a touch cheaper if you were to get a monitor which can match the spec of the screen built into an iMac. However once I?ve done that, any future upgrades will only need the Mac mini to be changed ( about ?700 these days ) and the way I have my system set up, my TV can be swung over to act as an additional HDMI screen if I want more screen area, or if the monitor failed. The Mac mini has an HDMI socket, so will form part of my AV system anyway and can stream elsewhere in the house wirelessly anyway. > > An all in one iMac has worked well for me so far, as have other ones before it, but now my needs have changed, I think it?s now time to go back to having a computer in a separate box. Most storage is already external to my computer on a NAS. I don?t need to buy a computer with a massive HD, just something which is fast, compact, power efficient and likely to last for the next decade. > > > Alan > > >> On 21 Jul 2022, at 17:15, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?I also have a vintage iMac that I am looking to upgrade. Which machine were you anticipating being released later this year? >> >> Graeme Wall >> > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From alanaudio at me.com Fri Jul 22 05:11:33 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2022 11:11:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0C56BD61-B2B3-44AE-973B-453E24C1062C@me.com> What I?m about to say might be relevant to some PC users, rather than my usual Mac-orientated comments. Most of us have used computers for decades and I think we all share a sense of trepidation when migrating everything to a new computer. It?s not something which I have done all that often and when I have, it has been automated. For decades on a Mac, it has been an option to simply tick a few boxes, press a button and migrate everything to a new computer, or if a computer was no longer available ( such as failure or theft ) to do it from an automatically created and updated backup. That?s mightily convenient, but doing it that way also carries over all the crap you?ve accumulated since the last computer, the computer before that and so on. In my case, migrations must have transferred some files from computer to computer for thirty years or more. As retirement was approaching, I knew that the way I use a computer would change. My hobbyist interests might increase, but thankfully I would no longer need to keep accounts for VAT and tax. The most important thing to preserve was thousands of files and documents. I felt that for my purposes, the best solution was to offload them to an NAS and then run a slimmed down computer which mostly held the applications, but took its data from the NAS. The NAS mirrors all the data onto two drives, which should increase data reliability. I got the NAS more than a year ago. It?s something which might seem more familiar to a PC user. Mac users are somewhat shielded from much of the terminology used, but it?s easy enough to find your way around. I chose a NAS from Synology as they offer many additional applications ( everything from phot management to handling security cameras ). The big plus for me is that there is an active user group. You?re unlikely to encounter a challenge which somebody else hasn?t already faced. My only regret was that when I made the choice from their range, I didn?t get an ARM based NAS, which would have been more power efficient. They all seem to offer similar features, irrespective of CPU. It?s going to be running 24/7, so power consumption might be more of a a consideration in the future. I opted to have the HDs spin down when not in use, trading off immediate data access against power consumption while idling. I bought an empty NAS case and sourced server rated HDs from a reputable manufacturer to put in it. Hopefully they should be reliable, but the NAS continually checks for proper operation and would send an alert if one drive appeared to be faulty. By getting the NAS long before changing my computer, I was able to experiment and work out what suits my needs. I was very taken with the idea of the Synology photo storage applications, but when I tried them, I felt they were cumbersome compared to what I was used to. I think I?ll revert to using what I currently use, but storing the files on the NAS. The same with music and video. It doesn?t always have to be one or the other. My music files on the NAS can be accessed by iTunes on my Mac and also by my Marantz HiFi in the bedroom. A NAS also allows me to access all my files remotely. If figs are being sold cheaply on the market, I can use my phone to look at my fig recipes and then get any other ingredients while I?m still in town. Having run the NAS in parallel with my old computer for a while, the next step will be changing the computer as described previously. The new computer will use a different CPU chip and some of the old applications might no longer have equivalents for the new chip. I?ve been trying to be more selective with the applications I use so that I no longer use applications which I know will work on the new CPU. I?ve covered my back by finding alternative iPad apps to do tasks where I have doubts. The NAS gives me the opportunity to do most of the migration process ahead of time and iron out the bugs. The ARM powered applications on the new computer should handle that data in exactly the same way as the Intel powered applications do on my current computer. When the time comes to upgrade again in the distant future, all the documents will remain on the NAS. Migration should be much simpler. Alan > On 22 Jul 2022, at 09:12, Graeme Wall wrote: > > ?Exactly mirrors my thoughts, I?m looking at the Mac mini as well. I?ve not used a NAS before so have to do some research for the optimum solution. Got to be easy to set up for a simple cameraman! > > Graeme Wall > >> On 21 Jul 2022, at 18:15, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?I?ve decided that for my purposes, the best solution is to go the way of HiFi separates. Instead of another integrated iMac with everything in the box, my needs will be best met by getting a decent monitor and a separate Mac mini with Apple?s new M2 ARM processor. >> >> A laptop screen is smaller than I would like and although they easily drive external screens, I prefer the main screen to be the larger one. I no longer need the portability of a laptop because I use an iPad to do most of what I used to do on a laptop, however there are a few applications which need to run on OSX rather than on IOS, mostly applications using file management, or connecting to external peripherals, so I can?t do absolutely everything on an iPad and external monitor either, although that could change if IOS and OSX were to converge a little more, which seems possible as either operating system can now run on the same chip. >> >> The price of an iMac is actually quite competitive compared to buying a Mac mini, monitor, keyboard and mouse, it might even be a touch cheaper if you were to get a monitor which can match the spec of the screen built into an iMac. However once I?ve done that, any future upgrades will only need the Mac mini to be changed ( about ?700 these days ) and the way I have my system set up, my TV can be swung over to act as an additional HDMI screen if I want more screen area, or if the monitor failed. The Mac mini has an HDMI socket, so will form part of my AV system anyway and can stream elsewhere in the house wirelessly anyway. >> >> An all in one iMac has worked well for me so far, as have other ones before it, but now my needs have changed, I think it?s now time to go back to having a computer in a separate box. Most storage is already external to my computer on a NAS. I don?t need to buy a computer with a massive HD, just something which is fast, compact, power efficient and likely to last for the next decade. >> >> >> Alan >> >> >>>> On 21 Jul 2022, at 17:15, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?I also have a vintage iMac that I am looking to upgrade. Which machine were you anticipating being released later this year? >>> >>> Graeme Wall >>> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From bernie833 at gmail.com Fri Jul 22 05:28:25 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2022 11:28:25 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a NAS, though I've never thought of it as primary storage.? It's a Synology 218j, now superseded I think. I use it as instant backup for various folders on various drives on the main machine.? It's just a two drive box, with some kind of Synology RAID running on NAS specific drives, not general use ones.? The hardware has been totally solid for years. The Synology software gets updated from time to time, and I can't say that I've ever been in love with it. The main part runs on the NAS, and has a whole range of applications. It's designed to be all thing to all men, so you have to pick your way through. It's set up to instantly backup selected folders when things change there. It doesn't delete when you delete on the main machine, and you have to make sure that's the way it works. It wasn't set that way when I first got it. There is of course software on the PC to tell the NAS when to back up. And my Android phone has Synology software which allows me to access the NAS from anywhere. It's useful for showing stills or video if needed. I couldn't use any kind of mini - mac or any other - as a main machine.? In this one - Drive C: is the boot drive. It's a 1TB 2.5" SSD, which I've recently cloned from a 250Gb because it got too small. Drive E: is a 1TB M2 NVMe. I didn't realise when I bought this motherboard that I had the place to put that. In fact I have room for two. It's a very fast SSD stick that hides under a heat sink next to the graphics card. I use it to store video rushes for DaVinci Resolve (backed up of course on the NAS).? It's also bootable with a standby copy of the operating system in case of problems with drive C. Drives F, G and K have stuff on them, lots and lots of stuff. Drive D is unplugged because the motherboard couldn't run it and the M2 at the same time. And there's 32Gb RAM which I could instantly turn into 64Gb if needed - unplug, plug in. Just like the recent change of graphics card. The printer, a router, a 7 port USB 3 extender, birdcam, a tv tuner, a joystick, a phone cable for transferring files, an SD card reader, and a USB mic are all here, and it all gets used. B On 21/07/2022 20:09, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: > Exactly mirrors my thoughts, I?m looking at the Mac mini as well. I?ve not used a NAS before so have to do some research for the optimum solution. Got to be easy to set up for a simple cameraman! > > Graeme Wall > >> On 21 Jul 2022, at 18:15, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?I?ve decided that for my purposes, the best solution is to go the way of HiFi separates. Instead of another integrated iMac with everything in the box, my needs will be best met by getting a decent monitor and a separate Mac mini with Apple?s new M2 ARM processor. >> >> A laptop screen is smaller than I would like and although they easily drive external screens, I prefer the main screen to be the larger one. I no longer need the portability of a laptop because I use an iPad to do most of what I used to do on a laptop, however there are a few applications which need to run on OSX rather than on IOS, mostly applications using file management, or connecting to external peripherals, so I can?t do absolutely everything on an iPad and external monitor either, although that could change if IOS and OSX were to converge a little more, which seems possible as either operating system can now run on the same chip. >> >> The price of an iMac is actually quite competitive compared to buying a Mac mini, monitor, keyboard and mouse, it might even be a touch cheaper if you were to get a monitor which can match the spec of the screen built into an iMac. However once I?ve done that, any future upgrades will only need the Mac mini to be changed ( about ?700 these days ) and the way I have my system set up, my TV can be swung over to act as an additional HDMI screen if I want more screen area, or if the monitor failed. The Mac mini has an HDMI socket, so will form part of my AV system anyway and can stream elsewhere in the house wirelessly anyway. >> >> An all in one iMac has worked well for me so far, as have other ones before it, but now my needs have changed, I think it?s now time to go back to having a computer in a separate box. Most storage is already external to my computer on a NAS. I don?t need to buy a computer with a massive HD, just something which is fast, compact, power efficient and likely to last for the next decade. >> >> >> Alan >> >> >>> On 21 Jul 2022, at 17:15, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?I also have a vintage iMac that I am looking to upgrade. Which machine were you anticipating being released later this year? >>> >>> Graeme Wall >>> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Fri Jul 22 08:26:59 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2022 14:26:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don?t really think in terms of primary storage these days. Most files ( word processing, email, photos, spreadsheets, presentations, music etc. ) appear on other devices automatically. If I start a WP document and think about something to add, I can open it from anywhere on my iPhone in it?s most recently edited state, right up to the most recent keystroke and tweak it accordingly. I don?t specifically save documents, they are always saved automatically and synced to everything else. Therefore a given file appears to simultaneously exist in multiple places; on the computer hard drive, on the NAS and assuming internet connectivity, also on my iPhone, iPad and in the cloud. You get the speed advantage of using storage within the computer, but the data mostly lives elsewhere, especially when you have no longer been actively working on it for a while. I like to keep a lot of empty space on the built in drive to handle demanding tasks like media editing or graphics work. The speed is advantageous while working on it, but it only takes a moment to store it into or retrieve it from the NAS at other times. I?m intrigued that you?re not over keen on the Synology software either. I heard a lot about NAS from a friend who was incredibly geeky. He tinkered with his PC all the time and seemed to be very much at home with his NAS ( not Synology ). I just assumed that NAS terminology and conventions were second nature for PC users. I chose Synology because it seemed to be a little more user friendly than some. I get the impression that if I really got to grips with it, I could use it for all sorts of amazing things, but there are plenty of other things I?d rather put effort into. As for peripherals, very few are wired in any more. I?ve had many USB hubs over the years, but most things are now connected wirelessly. There is a hub feeding a couple of peripherals ( backup drive for Time Machine and a DVD writer which I scarcely use ). One USB socket on the back of my iMac has a 15cm USB extension lead to conveniently plug in anything needed on the day, usually USB memory sticks. Printer/scanner is wireless, DSLR camera exports via WiFi, 8 track digital audio is Bluetooth or SD card ( SD slot built into computer as standard ). Phone and iPad sync wirelessly and the keyboard and mouse are wireless. If I fancy moving the computer to use it in another room, it?s just a matter of taking out the mains lead and one USB. Everything will work normally from anywhere in the house or garden with the exception of Time Machine, which will update itself once it?s reconnected by that USB. I was a bit wary of wireless initially, but it has proved to work well. The construction of my house doesn?t lend itself to neatly or easily hiding cables. Doing without cables has proved to be very convenient. Alan > On 22 Jul 2022, at 11:28, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > > ? I have a NAS, though I've never thought of it as primary storage. It's a Synology 218j, now superseded I think. I use it as instant backup for various folders on various drives on the main machine. It's just a two drive box, with some kind of Synology RAID running on NAS specific drives, not general use ones. The hardware has been totally solid for years. > > The Synology software gets updated from time to time, and I can't say that I've ever been in love with it. The main part runs on the NAS, and has a whole range of applications. It's designed to be all thing to all men, so you have to pick your way through. It's set up to instantly backup selected folders when things change there. It doesn't delete when you delete on the main machine, and you have to make sure that's the way it works. It wasn't set that way when I first got it. > > There is of course software on the PC to tell the NAS when to back up. And my Android phone has Synology software which allows me to access the NAS from anywhere. It's useful for showing stills or video if needed. > > I couldn't use any kind of mini - mac or any other - as a main machine. In this one - > Drive C: is the boot drive. It's a 1TB 2.5" SSD, which I've recently cloned from a 250Gb because it got too small. > Drive E: is a 1TB M2 NVMe. I didn't realise when I bought this motherboard that I had the place to put that. In fact I have room for two. It's a very fast SSD stick that hides under a heat sink next to the graphics card. I use it to store video rushes for DaVinci Resolve (backed up of course on the NAS). It's also bootable with a standby copy of the operating system in case of problems with drive C. > Drives F, G and K have stuff on them, lots and lots of stuff. Drive D is unplugged because the motherboard couldn't run it and the M2 at the same time. > And there's 32Gb RAM which I could instantly turn into 64Gb if needed - unplug, plug in. Just like the recent change of graphics card. > > The printer, a router, a 7 port USB 3 extender, birdcam, a tv tuner, a joystick, a phone cable for transferring files, an SD card reader, and a USB mic are all here, and it all gets used. > > B > > > On 21/07/2022 20:09, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: >> Exactly mirrors my thoughts, I?m looking at the Mac mini as well. I?ve not used a NAS before so have to do some research for the optimum solution. Got to be easy to set up for a simple cameraman! >> >> Graeme Wall >> >>>> On 21 Jul 2022, at 18:15, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> ?I?ve decided that for my purposes, the best solution is to go the way of HiFi separates. Instead of another integrated iMac with everything in the box, my needs will be best met by getting a decent monitor and a separate Mac mini with Apple?s new M2 ARM processor. >>>> >>>> A laptop screen is smaller than I would like and although they easily drive external screens, I prefer the main screen to be the larger one. I no longer need the portability of a laptop because I use an iPad to do most of what I used to do on a laptop, however there are a few applications which need to run on OSX rather than on IOS, mostly applications using file management, or connecting to external peripherals, so I can?t do absolutely everything on an iPad and external monitor either, although that could change if IOS and OSX were to converge a little more, which seems possible as either operating system can now run on the same chip. >>>> >>>> The price of an iMac is actually quite competitive compared to buying a Mac mini, monitor, keyboard and mouse, it might even be a touch cheaper if you were to get a monitor which can match the spec of the screen built into an iMac. However once I?ve done that, any future upgrades will only need the Mac mini to be changed ( about ?700 these days ) and the way I have my system set up, my TV can be swung over to act as an additional HDMI screen if I want more screen area, or if the monitor failed. The Mac mini has an HDMI socket, so will form part of my AV system anyway and can stream elsewhere in the house wirelessly anyway. >>>> >>>> An all in one iMac has worked well for me so far, as have other ones before it, but now my needs have changed, I think it?s now time to go back to having a computer in a separate box. Most storage is already external to my computer on a NAS. I don?t need to buy a computer with a massive HD, just something which is fast, compact, power efficient and likely to last for the next decade. >>>> >>>> >>>> Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> On 21 Jul 2022, at 17:15, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> ?I also have a vintage iMac that I am looking to upgrade. Which machine were you anticipating being released later this year? >>>> >>>> Graeme Wall >>>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Fri Jul 22 08:32:11 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2022 14:32:11 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6b0886b3-49e0-4845-1e6c-a5c21f4429e3@davesound.co.uk> I'm a bit curious about running a decent sized and spec monitor from say, an, i-pad? I have a pretty decent 24" monitor and the graphics card in the desktop which drives that is pretty massive with large heat-sink and cooling fan. And recent too. Why did I need that if similar can be fitted inside an i-pad? On 22/07/2022 11:28, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > I have a NAS, though I've never thought of it as primary storage.? > It's a Synology 218j, now superseded I think. I use it as instant > backup for various folders on various drives on the main machine.? > It's just a two drive box, with some kind of Synology RAID running on > NAS specific drives, not general use ones.? The hardware has been > totally solid for years. > > The Synology software gets updated from time to time, and I can't say > that I've ever been in love with it. The main part runs on the NAS, > and has a whole range of applications. It's designed to be all thing > to all men, so you have to pick your way through. It's set up to > instantly backup selected folders when things change there. It doesn't > delete when you delete on the main machine, and you have to make sure > that's the way it works. It wasn't set that way when I first got it. > > There is of course software on the PC to tell the NAS when to back up. > And my Android phone has Synology software which allows me to access > the NAS from anywhere. It's useful for showing stills or video if needed. > > I couldn't use any kind of mini - mac or any other - as a main > machine.? In this one - > Drive C: is the boot drive. It's a 1TB 2.5" SSD, which I've recently > cloned from a 250Gb because it got too small. > Drive E: is a 1TB M2 NVMe. I didn't realise when I bought this > motherboard that I had the place to put that. In fact I have room for > two. It's a very fast SSD stick that hides under a heat sink next to > the graphics card. I use it to store video rushes for DaVinci Resolve > (backed up of course on the NAS).? It's also bootable with a standby > copy of the operating system in case of problems with drive C. > Drives F, G and K have stuff on them, lots and lots of stuff. Drive D > is unplugged because the motherboard couldn't run it and the M2 at the > same time. > And there's 32Gb RAM which I could instantly turn into 64Gb if needed > - unplug, plug in. Just like the recent change of graphics card. > > The printer, a router, a 7 port USB 3 extender, birdcam, a tv tuner, a > joystick, a phone cable for transferring files, an SD card reader, and > a USB mic are all here, and it all gets used. > > B > > > On 21/07/2022 20:09, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: >> Exactly mirrors my thoughts, I?m looking at the Mac mini as well. I?ve not used a NAS before so have to do some research for the optimum solution. Got to be easy to set up for a simple cameraman! >> >> Graeme Wall >> >>> On 21 Jul 2022, at 18:15, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> ?I?ve decided that for my purposes, the best solution is to go the way of HiFi separates. Instead of another integrated iMac with everything in the box, my needs will be best met by getting a decent monitor and a separate Mac mini with Apple?s new M2 ARM processor. >>> >>> A laptop screen is smaller than I would like and although they easily drive external screens, I prefer the main screen to be the larger one. I no longer need the portability of a laptop because I use an iPad to do most of what I used to do on a laptop, however there are a few applications which need to run on OSX rather than on IOS, mostly applications using file management, or connecting to external peripherals, so I can?t do absolutely everything on an iPad and external monitor either, although that could change if IOS and OSX were to converge a little more, which seems possible as either operating system can now run on the same chip. >>> >>> The price of an iMac is actually quite competitive compared to buying a Mac mini, monitor, keyboard and mouse, it might even be a touch cheaper if you were to get a monitor which can match the spec of the screen built into an iMac. However once I?ve done that, any future upgrades will only need the Mac mini to be changed ( about ?700 these days ) and the way I have my system set up, my TV can be swung over to act as an additional HDMI screen if I want more screen area, or if the monitor failed. The Mac mini has an HDMI socket, so will form part of my AV system anyway and can stream elsewhere in the house wirelessly anyway. >>> >>> An all in one iMac has worked well for me so far, as have other ones before it, but now my needs have changed, I think it?s now time to go back to having a computer in a separate box. Most storage is already external to my computer on a NAS. I don?t need to buy a computer with a massive HD, just something which is fast, compact, power efficient and likely to last for the next decade. >>> >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> >>>> On 21 Jul 2022, at 17:15, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> ?I also have a vintage iMac that I am looking to upgrade. Which machine were you anticipating being released later this year? >>>> >>>> Graeme Wall >>>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Fri Jul 22 10:46:59 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2022 16:46:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] From long ago In-Reply-To: <6b0886b3-49e0-4845-1e6c-a5c21f4429e3@davesound.co.uk> References: <6b0886b3-49e0-4845-1e6c-a5c21f4429e3@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: There are two ways to feed an external display from an iPad. One is an adaptor cable from Lightning to HMDI ( ?40 ish ). The other is to do it wirelessly via Airplay. You can also go the other way and use a recent model iPad as a second screen for a suitable Mac, using a feature called SideCar. I?ll outline that later. Many smart TVs have AirPlay as standard, otherwise an external adaptor would be needed, especially for a monitor. Some people buy second hand Apple TV units solely for that reason. If you don?t need 4K resolution, an older 3rd generation Apple TV adaptor can be picked up for about ?20 from a private seller, or ?35 for a ?refurbished? one from a dealer. It?s interesting that you compare the iPad to a graphics card. Apple has recently started selling its Studio Display, which is a 5k resolution 27? monitor which has a powerful chip inside to handle the display, web cam, audio and other stuff. It seems to me like a sledgehammer to crack a walnut and sells for ?1500. However the reason I mention it is because of the chip driving it. Inside the Studio Display is a bog standard A13 chip as used in iPhones and iPads, including their base model iPhone SE3. It seems incredible to me that a chip like that can effortlessly drive a high resolution 5k screen. Macs with the M series Apple silicon can run three displays simultaneously as standard. The main screen, an additional monitor via a cable and a third one via SideCar. I?ve seen a video editing setup where the main screen shows the editing display, a large external monitor shows the video while the SideCar iPad displays the menus, file windows and other applications. The whole thing was running on a low end Mac mini and a huge external drive. SideCar merely requires a suitable Mac and iPad. You select the preferences and the iPad becomes a second screen for the computer. No cables, no drivers, no special adaptors. Alan > On 22 Jul 2022, at 14:32, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > ? > I'm a bit curious about running a decent sized and spec monitor from say, an, i-pad? > > I have a pretty decent 24" monitor and the graphics card in the desktop which drives that is pretty massive with large heat-sink and cooling fan. And recent too. Why did I need that if similar can be fitted inside an i-pad? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Sat Jul 23 03:10:57 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:10:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wiring Diagram. Message-ID: The day will come when the pole will need replacing. Knit one, purl 1 .....drop one. Looks more like Mumbai than rural Somerset. Dave Newbitt. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: West%20Chinnock,%20South%20Somerset[4].jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 187090 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Sat Jul 23 03:28:06 2022 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:28:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wiring Diagram. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6732B30F410C480AA7F41D3497128447@Gigabyte> At least there is a convenient power supply on the pole for when the fibre splitter boxes arrive! Mike From: David Newbitt via Tech1 Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2022 9:10 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Subject: [Tech1] Wiring Diagram. The day will come when the pole will need replacing. Knit one, purl 1 ....drop one. Looks more like Mumbai than rural Somerset. Dave Newbitt. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Sat Jul 23 03:32:22 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:32:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wiring Diagram. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Can you imagine the size of the spider! ARRRGGGGHHH! Pat On 23/07/2022 09:10, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > West Chinnock, South Somerset > The day will come when the pole will need replacing. Knit one, purl 1 > .....drop one. Looks more like Mumbai than rural Somerset. > Dave Newbitt. > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: West%20Chinnock%2C%20South%20Somerset%5B4%5D.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 187090 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Sat Jul 23 03:57:40 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:57:40 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wiring Diagram. In-Reply-To: <6732B30F410C480AA7F41D3497128447@Gigabyte> References: <6732B30F410C480AA7F41D3497128447@Gigabyte> Message-ID: <1578dd8b-d39e-d5f1-0d8f-c10be7338a78@davesound.co.uk> The street where I live (Q music) is very rare in having telephone poles in the street. Only one in the area. Others, if they can be seen, tend to be at the back of the houses. But most all underground. Never did work out why, as this Victorian area was all built long before telephones. When I first got broadband, the results weren't up to spec, so they replaced the overhear wiring to the house. And I made it easy for them to bring it exactly where I wanted the router, to cut down on unnecessary internal wiring. So with now FTC, I'm right at the top end, speed wise. However, no Wi-Fi when I first got broadband, so I chose the cellar for the router - to make cabling from it easy.? So the early Wi-Fi didn't cover all the house without extenders. But the latest BT router does. On 23/07/2022 09:28, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote: > At least there is a convenient power supply on the pole for when the > fibre splitter boxes arrive! > Mike > *From:* David Newbitt via Tech1 > *Sent:* Saturday, July 23, 2022 9:10 AM > *To:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Cc:* dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net > *Subject:* [Tech1] Wiring Diagram. > The day will come when the pole will need replacing. Knit one, purl 1 > ....drop one. Looks more like Mumbai than rural Somerset. > Dave Newbitt. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Sat Jul 23 09:20:36 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 15:20:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Bizarre job title Message-ID: <8696E7AE-B50F-4FB1-A1B2-7B145B344DB4@me.com> I received a letter today signed by the ?Customer Experience Co-ordinator?. Now if it had been a letter from Disneyland, my local theatre, or a restaurant chain, I would have thought nothing of it, but this was from Thames Water regarding upgrades to the village sewage system. The reason for the letter was to warn us about a forthcoming bat survey prior to doing some proposed upgrades. Do you reckon that if I got some bat recordings and played them very loud from some tweeters, that I could fool them into thinking there were millions of bats nesting there and no nearby housing development would be permissible? Alan From dave at davesound.co.uk Sat Jul 23 09:24:28 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 15:24:28 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Bizarre job title In-Reply-To: <8696E7AE-B50F-4FB1-A1B2-7B145B344DB4@me.com> References: <8696E7AE-B50F-4FB1-A1B2-7B145B344DB4@me.com> Message-ID: The longer your title, the more important you are? On 23/07/2022 15:20, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > I received a letter today signed by the ?Customer Experience Co-ordinator?. Now if it had been a letter from Disneyland, my local theatre, or a restaurant chain, I would have thought nothing of it, but this was from Thames Water regarding upgrades to the village sewage system. > > The reason for the letter was to warn us about a forthcoming bat survey prior to doing some proposed upgrades. Do you reckon that if I got some bat recordings and played them very loud from some tweeters, that I could fool them into thinking there were millions of bats nesting there and no nearby housing development would be permissible? > > Alan -- Dave Plowman 020 8672 3123 16 Sarsfeld Road 07765 421 304 London SW12 8HN From bernie833 at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 10:14:42 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 16:14:42 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Found Message-ID: <6a96eb79-7f2e-9a8c-8dd8-5420dd94382e@gmail.com> In the back of? a cupboard, I found a bag full of stuff - programmes for 2001 and Woodstock, an Our World script with the deleted soviet satellite bit, and lots more. This is at Evesham. I believe the cameraman is Chris Woolf, and in the background Ray Williams -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: img029.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 57986 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Sat Jul 23 11:54:26 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 17:54:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Found Message-ID: This is mostly for David Taylor..... 55 years and one month ago I passed through TC1 on the way to somewhere.? I picked up a junk script with Brian Hiles name on it.? It was for Our World, which was what was in TC1, but it was junk because it was the original version, which started with a view from a Soviet satellite looking down at the Earth. At the last minute the Russians took offence at something and dropped out, thus making this version of the script useless. ? It's probably the only copy. I found it stuffed in a bag with lots of other stuff, and here it is - unclipped and scanned after 55 years - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/Our_World.pdf B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Sat Jul 23 11:56:48 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 17:56:48 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Found In-Reply-To: <6a96eb79-7f2e-9a8c-8dd8-5420dd94382e@gmail.com> References: <6a96eb79-7f2e-9a8c-8dd8-5420dd94382e@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6fadd787-e64c-bf99-26c2-79114574b765@chriswoolf.co.uk> Ray, without a doubt. Quite probably me - I recognise the style of clothing, but will concede the claim to anyone with a better one. Chris Woolf On 23/07/2022 16:14, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > In the back of? a cupboard, I found a bag full of stuff - programmes > for 2001 and Woodstock, an Our World script with the deleted soviet > satellite bit, and lots more. > > This is at Evesham. I believe the cameraman is Chris Woolf, and in the > background Ray Williams > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: img029.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 57986 bytes Desc: not available URL: From waresound at msn.com Sat Jul 23 12:12:07 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 17:12:07 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Found In-Reply-To: <6a96eb79-7f2e-9a8c-8dd8-5420dd94382e@gmail.com> References: <6a96eb79-7f2e-9a8c-8dd8-5420dd94382e@gmail.com> Message-ID: Can?t be Chris Woolf, he would have known that the viewfinder is on top of the camera, not underneath it. N. Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 On 23 Jul 2022, at 16:15, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: ? In the back of a cupboard, I found a bag full of stuff - programmes for 2001 and Woodstock, an Our World script with the deleted soviet satellite bit, and lots more. This is at Evesham. I believe the cameraman is Chris Woolf, and in the background Ray Williams [img029.jpg] -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: img029.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 57986 bytes Desc: img029.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: img029.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 57986 bytes Desc: img029.jpg URL: From david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk Sat Jul 23 12:22:27 2022 From: david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk (David Taylor) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:22:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9d58fa8a-36f3-49b8-997e-046d2f41022a@davidtaylorsound.co.uk> Bernard, How amazing that you kept it....and have? found it again! I will relish reading it and try and incorporate bits in my original article if that's OK. Caversham would appreciate the original I'm sure. Don't we all wish we'd kept some of our old scripts or even planning sheets. I have a couple of original 'Mr Bean' scripts....anyone else got anything hidden away? David T On 23 Jul 2022, 17:54, at 17:54, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >This is mostly for David Taylor..... > >55 years and one month ago I passed through TC1 on the way to >somewhere.? I picked up a junk script with Brian Hiles name on it.? It >was for Our World, which was what was in TC1, but it was junk because >it >was the original version, which started with a view from a Soviet >satellite looking down at the Earth. At the last minute the Russians >took offence at something and dropped out, thus making this version of >the script useless. ? It's probably the only copy. > >I found it stuffed in a bag with lots of other stuff, and here it is - >unclipped and scanned after 55 years - >http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/Our_World.pdf > >B > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >-- >Tech1 mailing list >Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Sat Jul 23 12:23:46 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:23:46 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mention of Brian Hiles (Porridge Boots) reminds me of a time when five years after I left, I wndered in from Frithfield Gardens - one could in those days, The scene doors to TC3 were open, and the sound guys were preparing to check the phase of the boom mics. I asked them who was on the desk - Porridge Boots! Motioning them to keep quiet, I pinched my nostrils to sound 'out of phase' and announced a phase check. Click went the L/S talkback; " Pat Heigham, what are you doing here!" After five years, I was still remembered notorious! Brian was lovely to work with, one of the people I was sad to see depart to the big studio in the sky. I managed to attend the funerals of Len Shorey and Gordon Mackie, and also Pete Rose, thanks to Bob Foley who drove me and Mike Giles to the first two. Hugh Barker, not, as that was family only - pity, I should have liked to pay my respects. Having kept in touch with his wife Rita, who told me that Hugh did not want to remember his BBC career - shame, as he was brilliant at what he did. The last time I saw Hugh was at Len's funeral. Pat On 23/07/2022 17:54, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > This is mostly for David Taylor..... > > 55 years and one month ago I passed through TC1 on the way to > somewhere.? I picked up a junk script with Brian Hiles name on it.? It > was for Our World, which was what was in TC1, but it was junk because > it was the original version, which started with a view from a Soviet > satellite looking down at the Earth. At the last minute the Russians > took offence at something and dropped out, thus making this version of > the script useless. ? It's probably the only copy. > > I found it stuffed in a bag with lots of other stuff, and here it is - > unclipped and scanned after 55 years - > http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/Our_World.pdf > > B > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Sat Jul 23 13:33:25 2022 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 19:33:25 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Found In-Reply-To: <9d58fa8a-36f3-49b8-997e-046d2f41022a@davidtaylorsound.co.uk> References: <9d58fa8a-36f3-49b8-997e-046d2f41022a@davidtaylorsound.co.uk> Message-ID: <5E4E641E-B0F9-406A-B586-AD4E600E7FBA@icloud.com> I used to have a copy of the script for a pilot of a cookery programme with Delia Smith but haven?t seen it since I last moved house :-( I do rememeber eating the results though! If it turns up I?ll scan it and post it on here. ? Graeme Wall > On 23 Jul 2022, at 18:22, David Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > > Bernard, > How amazing that you kept it....and have found it again! > I will relish reading it and try and incorporate bits in my original article if that's OK. > Caversham would appreciate the original I'm sure. > Don't we all wish we'd kept some of our old scripts or even planning sheets. > I have a couple of original 'Mr Bean' scripts....anyone else got anything hidden away? > > David T > On 23 Jul 2022, at 17:54, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > This is mostly for David Taylor..... > > 55 years and one month ago I passed through TC1 on the way to somewhere. I picked up a junk script with Brian Hiles name on it. It was for Our World, which was what was in TC1, but it was junk because it was the original version, which started with a view from a Soviet satellite looking down at the Earth. At the last minute the Russians took offence at something and dropped out, thus making this version of the script useless. It's probably the only copy. > > I found it stuffed in a bag with lots of other stuff, and here it is - unclipped and scanned after 55 years - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/Our_World.pdf > > B > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com Sun Jul 24 04:09:39 2022 From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 10:09:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Found In-Reply-To: References: <6a96eb79-7f2e-9a8c-8dd8-5420dd94382e@gmail.com> Message-ID: At least I knew where the viewfinder was! Having gripped that I thought I?d give sound a go! Barry. On 23 Jul 2022, at 18:12, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > Can?t be Chris Woolf, he would have known that the viewfinder is on top of the camera, not underneath it. > N. > Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > >> On 23 Jul 2022, at 16:15, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ? In the back of a cupboard, I found a bag full of stuff - programmes for 2001 and Woodstock, an Our World script with the deleted soviet satellite bit, and lots more. >> >> This is at Evesham. I believe the cameraman is Chris Woolf, and in the background Ray Williams >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Cam 2 1965.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 303262 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk Sun Jul 24 04:12:12 2022 From: david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk (David Taylor) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 10:12:12 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bernard, Thanks again, it's great to have an insight into the TC2 side of 'Our World', as the other documents from Norman Taylor only showed the 'Master Control' element in TC1 CR. It would have been an even more world-embrassing programme if the Soviet Block hadn't pulled out at the last moment I can see. David T On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 at 17:54, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 < tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > This is mostly for David Taylor..... > > 55 years and one month ago I passed through TC1 on the way to somewhere. > I picked up a junk script with Brian Hiles name on it. It was for Our > World, which was what was in TC1, but it was junk because it was the > original version, which started with a view from a Soviet satellite looking > down at the Earth. At the last minute the Russians took offence at > something and dropped out, thus making this version of the script useless. > It's probably the only copy. > > I found it stuffed in a bag with lots of other stuff, and here it is - > unclipped and scanned after 55 years - > http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/Our_World.pdf > > B > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Sun Jul 24 04:51:52 2022 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 10:51:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Found In-Reply-To: References: <6a96eb79-7f2e-9a8c-8dd8-5420dd94382e@gmail.com> Message-ID: <04f64a64-633c-1db2-1e68-532614e5c8ed@chriswoolf.co.uk> Ah, but being a lazy bugger I was in the process of locking the head off so that I could go off and do something more interesting;} Chris W On 23/07/2022 18:12, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > Can?t be Chris Woolf, he would have known that the viewfinder is on > top of the camera, not underneath it. > N. > Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > >> On 23 Jul 2022, at 16:15, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> ? In the back of? a cupboard, I found a bag full of stuff - >> programmes for 2001 and Woodstock, an Our World script with the >> deleted soviet satellite bit, and lots more. >> >> This is at Evesham. I believe the cameraman is Chris Woolf, and in >> the background Ray Williams >> >> img029.jpg >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: img029.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 57986 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Sun Jul 24 05:04:35 2022 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 11:04:35 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Not forgetting a few pictures (from The Science Museum display). Anyone recognisable? Mike From: David Taylor via Tech1 Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 10:12 AM To: Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] More Found Bernard, Thanks again, it's great to have an insight into the TC2 side of 'Our World', as the other documents from Norman Taylor only showed the 'Master Control' element in TC1 CR. It would have been an even more world-embrassing programme if the Soviet Block hadn't pulled out at the last moment I can see. David T -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Science Museum 270915_9_s.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 215511 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Science Museum 310115-3_s.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 190899 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Science Museum 310115-2_s.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 136084 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk Sun Jul 24 05:19:04 2022 From: david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk (David Taylor) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 11:19:04 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, All in my article....with credits to you as well. But I'll be updating it with some references from Bernard's new script. http://postfade.co.uk/television-sound/our-world-1967-the-world-of-tv-gets-connected-live-for-the-first-time-and-the-beatles-make-it-memorable/ (I'm a bit preoccupied with the history of early Neve desks at present though.) DT postfade.co.uk "About The History of Broadcast and Recorded Sound" On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 at 11:04, Mike Jordan wrote: > Not forgetting a few pictures (from The Science Museum display). Anyone > recognisable? > > Mike > > *From:* David Taylor via Tech1 > *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2022 10:12 AM > *To:* Bernard Newnham > *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] More Found > > Bernard, > Thanks again, it's great to have an insight into the TC2 side of 'Our > World', as the other documents from Norman Taylor only showed the 'Master > Control' element in TC1 CR. > It would have been an even more world-embrassing programme if the Soviet > Block hadn't pulled out at the last moment I can see. > > David T > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Sun Jul 24 08:16:16 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 14:16:16 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <24ab2e75-f0e9-c471-04af-08379136c8f9@amps.net> I think the chap on extreme L (holding rolled up script) is John Lopes - he was one on the same courses at Wood Norton as I was. And surely that's 'Mother' (Joan Marsden) in the centre, holding the script? Pat On 24/07/2022 11:04, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote: > Not forgetting a few pictures (from The Science Museum display). > Anyone recognisable? > Mike -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Sun Jul 24 09:33:49 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 15:33:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Left and right as camera left and right. Front right holding roll of camera tape ? Doug Watson. On mother?s left ? Jim Stephens. Behind mother ? Dave Hanks. Centre left, white shirt, rolled up sleeves ? Mike Conder. Almost dead centre, back right of Mike Conder poss. Alan Kerridge. Centre right, mid frame, striped tie ? Mike Langley Evans. Right of Mike ? poss. Alan Boyd. Right hand side, face only (in almost full profile) ? Greg Ade. Mid-right, bottle glass specs ? Graham Beebee. To the left of him, looking left, poss. John Hays. Loads more familiar faces but brain failure kicks in as ever with these group shots. Dave Newbitt. From: Mike Jordan via Tech1 Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 11:04 AM To: David Taylor ; Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] More Found Not forgetting a few pictures (from The Science Museum display). Anyone recognisable? Mike From: David Taylor via Tech1 Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 10:12 AM To: Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] More Found Bernard, Thanks again, it's great to have an insight into the TC2 side of 'Our World', as the other documents from Norman Taylor only showed the 'Master Control' element in TC1 CR. It would have been an even more world-embrassing programme if the Soviet Block hadn't pulled out at the last moment I can see. David T -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk Sun Jul 24 10:05:43 2022 From: david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk (David Taylor) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 16:05:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, Are we playing this game again....'spot the people in the Our World crew photo'? [image: 1967_06_25-1967-Our World broadcast-BBC TC1 crew photo_with numbers-900px.jpg] Because it was hard to relate to the indicated faces, I put a larger scale photo, complete with 'ID nos' on each person, at the end of my original article. Go to the bottom before the 'credits and references' and then download the bigger shot, with the ID's. All names verified by 2 people will be accepted I think! Article at: http://postfade.co.uk/television-sound/our-world-1967-the-world-of-tv-gets-connected-live-for-the-first-time-and-the-beatles-make-it-memorable/ On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 at 15:34, David Newbitt wrote: > Left and right as camera left and right. > > Front right holding roll of camera tape ? Doug Watson. > On mother?s left ? Jim Stephens. Behind mother ? Dave Hanks. > Centre left, white shirt, rolled up sleeves ? Mike Conder. > Almost dead centre, back right of Mike Conder poss. Alan Kerridge. > Centre right, mid frame, striped tie ? Mike Langley Evans. Right of Mike ? > poss. Alan Boyd. > Right hand side, face only (in almost full profile) ? Greg Ade. > Mid-right, bottle glass specs ? Graham Beebee. To the left of him, looking > left, poss. John Hays. > > Loads more familiar faces but brain failure kicks in as ever with these > group shots. > > Dave Newbitt. > > *From:* Mike Jordan via Tech1 > *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2022 11:04 AM > *To:* David Taylor ; Bernard Newnham > *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] More Found > > Not forgetting a few pictures (from The Science Museum display). Anyone > recognisable? > > Mike > > *From:* David Taylor via Tech1 > *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2022 10:12 AM > *To:* Bernard Newnham > *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] More Found > > Bernard, > Thanks again, it's great to have an insight into the TC2 side of 'Our > World', as the other documents from Norman Taylor only showed the 'Master > Control' element in TC1 CR. > It would have been an even more world-embrassing programme if the Soviet > Block hadn't pulled out at the last moment I can see. > > David T > > ------------------------------ > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1967_06_25-1967-Our World broadcast-BBC TC1 crew photo_with numbers-900px.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 321148 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Sun Jul 24 10:38:09 2022 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 16:38:09 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK David :- My original narrative with numbers added. Front right holding roll of camera tape ? Doug Watson. 39 On mother?s left ? Jim Stephens. Behind mother ? Dave Hanks. 8 and 11 Centre left, white shirt, rolled up sleeves ? Mike Conder. 17 Almost dead centre, back right of Mike Conder poss. Alan Kerridge. 18 Centre right, mid frame, striped tie ? Mike Langley Evans. Right of Mike ? poss. Alan Boyd. 26 & 30 Right hand side, face only (in almost full profile) ? Greg Ade. 41 Mid-right, bottle glass specs ? Graham Beebee. To the left of him, looking left, poss. John Hays. 36 & 32 Dave Newbitt. From: David Taylor Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 4:05 PM To: David Newbitt Cc: Mike Jordan ; Bernard Newnham ; Tech-Ops-chit-chat Subject: Re: [Tech1] More Found Hi All, Are we playing this game again....'spot the people in the Our World crew photo'? Because it was hard to relate to the indicated faces, I put a larger scale photo, complete with 'ID nos' on each person, at the end of my original article. Go to the bottom before the 'credits and references' and then download the bigger shot, with the ID's. All names verified by 2 people will be accepted I think! Article at: http://postfade.co.uk/television-sound/our-world-1967-the-world-of-tv-gets-connected-live-for-the-first-time-and-the-beatles-make-it-memorable/ On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 at 15:34, David Newbitt wrote: Left and right as camera left and right. Front right holding roll of camera tape ? Doug Watson. On mother?s left ? Jim Stephens. Behind mother ? Dave Hanks. Centre left, white shirt, rolled up sleeves ? Mike Conder. Almost dead centre, back right of Mike Conder poss. Alan Kerridge. Centre right, mid frame, striped tie ? Mike Langley Evans. Right of Mike ? poss. Alan Boyd. Right hand side, face only (in almost full profile) ? Greg Ade. Mid-right, bottle glass specs ? Graham Beebee. To the left of him, looking left, poss. John Hays. Loads more familiar faces but brain failure kicks in as ever with these group shots. Dave Newbitt. From: Mike Jordan via Tech1 Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 11:04 AM To: David Taylor ; Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] More Found Not forgetting a few pictures (from The Science Museum display). Anyone recognisable? Mike From: David Taylor via Tech1 Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 10:12 AM To: Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] More Found Bernard, Thanks again, it's great to have an insight into the TC2 side of 'Our World', as the other documents from Norman Taylor only showed the 'Master Control' element in TC1 CR. It would have been an even more world-embrassing programme if the Soviet Block hadn't pulled out at the last moment I can see. David T ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1967_06_25-1967-Our World broadcast-BBC TC1 crew photo_with numbers-900px.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 321148 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 10:55:01 2022 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 16:55:01 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8a6d3fb0-55fb-bdaa-e6c2-83b64c15167b@gmail.com> We did all this before, in 2020 and in 2021. B On 24/07/2022 16:38, David Newbitt wrote: > OK David :- > My original narrative with numbers added. > Front right holding roll of camera tape ? Doug Watson. 39 > On mother?s left ? Jim Stephens.? Behind mother ? Dave Hanks. 8 and 11 > Centre left, white shirt, rolled up sleeves ? Mike Conder. 17 > Almost dead centre, back right of Mike Conder poss. Alan Kerridge. 18 > Centre right, mid frame, striped tie ? Mike Langley Evans. Right of > Mike ? poss. Alan Boyd. 26 & 30 > Right hand side, face only (in almost full profile) ? Greg Ade. 41 > Mid-right, bottle glass specs ? Graham Beebee. To the left of him, > looking left, poss. John Hays. 36 & 32 > Dave Newbitt. > *From:* David Taylor > *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2022 4:05 PM > *To:* David Newbitt > *Cc:* Mike Jordan ; Bernard Newnham ; Tech-Ops-chit-chat > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] More Found > Hi All, > Are we playing this game again....'spot the people in the Our World > crew photo'? > 1967_06_25-1967-Our World broadcast-BBC TC1 crew photo_with > numbers-900px.jpg > Because it was hard to relate to the indicated faces, I put a larger > scale photo, complete with 'ID nos' on each person, at the end of my > original article. > Go to the bottom before the 'credits and references' and then download > the bigger shot, with the ID's. > All names verified by 2 people will be accepted I think! > Article at: > http://postfade.co.uk/television-sound/our-world-1967-the-world-of-tv-gets-connected-live-for-the-first-time-and-the-beatles-make-it-memorable/ > On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 at 15:34, David Newbitt > wrote: > > Left and right as camera left and right. > Front right holding roll of camera tape ? Doug Watson. > On mother?s left ? Jim Stephens.? Behind mother ? Dave Hanks. > Centre left, white shirt, rolled up sleeves ? Mike Conder. > Almost dead centre, back right of Mike Conder poss. Alan Kerridge. > Centre right, mid frame, striped tie ? Mike Langley Evans. Right > of Mike ? poss. Alan Boyd. > Right hand side, face only (in almost full profile) ? Greg Ade. > Mid-right, bottle glass specs ? Graham Beebee. To the left of him, > looking left, poss. John Hays. > Loads more familiar faces but brain failure kicks in as ever with > these group shots. > Dave Newbitt. > *From:* Mike Jordan via Tech1 > *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2022 11:04 AM > *To:* David Taylor ; Bernard Newnham > *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] More Found > Not forgetting a few pictures (from The Science Museum display). > Anyone recognisable? > Mike > *From:* David Taylor via Tech1 > *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2022 10:12 AM > *To:* Bernard Newnham > *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] More Found > Bernard, > Thanks again, it's great to have an insight into the TC2 side of > 'Our World', as the other documents from Norman Taylor only showed > the 'Master Control' element in TC1 CR. > It would have been an even more world-embrassing programme if the > Soviet Block hadn't pulled out at the last moment I can see. > David T > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1967_06_25-1967-Our%20World%20broadcast-BBC%20TC1%20crew%20photo_with%20numbers-900px.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 321148 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk Sun Jul 24 12:42:00 2022 From: david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk (David Taylor) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 18:42:00 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Found In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, The key people that had been identified when I wrote the article were: 10: Joan Marsden -Floor Manager (nicknamed ?mother?) 50: Aubrey Singer -Executive Producer 51: Noble Wilson ? Director in TC1 ? the Worldwide contributions 58: Darrol Blake -Director in TC2 61: Norman Taylor-TC1 Supervisory Engineer 62: Bob Wright 8: Jim Stephens -the vision mixer*.* Bernard's newly found script gives some more TC2 crew names - can anyone spot them: (the big downloadable copy of the photo is recommended) Designer-Norman James Lighting Bob Wright TM's Neil Campbell, Don Babbage Sound- Brian Hiles Tape op (is that VT or 'grams op') - Geoff Booth Vision Mixer - David Hanks FM TC-2- Tony Gilpin AFM TC-1 - Peter Smith Floor Assts - Stephen Withers TC1, Gerry Gavigan TC-2 Prod's Asst - Wendy Murray. Interesting that at the stage this preliminary script was written, the 'Narrator' was Michael Johnson. It was Cliff Michelmore on 'the night'. Alas, as I'm not a 'Beeb' guy, the only one I recognise is soundman Greg Ade (41)- from Trilion days. David T On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 at 16:38, David Newbitt wrote: > OK David :- > > My original narrative with numbers added. > > Front right holding roll of camera tape ? Doug Watson. > 39 > On mother?s left ? Jim Stephens. Behind mother ? Dave Hanks. 8 and > 11 > Centre left, white shirt, rolled up sleeves ? Mike > Conder. 17 > Almost dead centre, back right of Mike Conder poss. Alan Kerridge. 18 > Centre right, mid frame, striped tie ? Mike Langley Evans. Right of Mike ? > poss. Alan Boyd. 26 & 30 > Right hand side, face only (in almost full profile) ? Greg Ade. > 41 > Mid-right, bottle glass specs ? Graham Beebee. To the left of him, looking > left, poss. John Hays. 36 & 32 > > Dave Newbitt. > > *From:* David Taylor > *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2022 4:05 PM > *To:* David Newbitt > *Cc:* Mike Jordan ; Bernard Newnham ; Tech-Ops-chit-chat > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] More Found > > Hi All, > Are we playing this game again....'spot the people in the Our World crew > photo'? > [image: 1967_06_25-1967-Our World broadcast-BBC TC1 crew photo_with > numbers-900px.jpg] > > Because it was hard to relate to the indicated faces, I put a larger scale > photo, complete with 'ID nos' on each person, at the end of my original > article. > Go to the bottom before the 'credits and references' and then download the > bigger shot, with the ID's. > All names verified by 2 people will be accepted I think! > > Article at: > > http://postfade.co.uk/television-sound/our-world-1967-the-world-of-tv-gets-connected-live-for-the-first-time-and-the-beatles-make-it-memorable/ > > On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 at 15:34, David Newbitt > wrote: > >> Left and right as camera left and right. >> >> Front right holding roll of camera tape ? Doug Watson. >> On mother?s left ? Jim Stephens. Behind mother ? Dave Hanks. >> Centre left, white shirt, rolled up sleeves ? Mike Conder. >> Almost dead centre, back right of Mike Conder poss. Alan Kerridge. >> Centre right, mid frame, striped tie ? Mike Langley Evans. Right of Mike >> ? poss. Alan Boyd. >> Right hand side, face only (in almost full profile) ? Greg Ade. >> Mid-right, bottle glass specs ? Graham Beebee. To the left of him, >> looking left, poss. John Hays. >> >> Loads more familiar faces but brain failure kicks in as ever with these >> group shots. >> >> Dave Newbitt. >> >> *From:* Mike Jordan via Tech1 >> *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2022 11:04 AM >> *To:* David Taylor ; Bernard Newnham >> *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] More Found >> >> Not forgetting a few pictures (from The Science Museum display). Anyone >> recognisable? >> >> Mike >> >> *From:* David Taylor via Tech1 >> *Sent:* Sunday, July 24, 2022 10:12 AM >> *To:* Bernard Newnham >> *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] More Found >> >> Bernard, >> Thanks again, it's great to have an insight into the TC2 side of 'Our >> World', as the other documents from Norman Taylor only showed the 'Master >> Control' element in TC1 CR. >> It would have been an even more world-embrassing programme if the Soviet >> Block hadn't pulled out at the last moment I can see. >> >> David T >> ------------------------------ >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1967_06_25-1967-Our World broadcast-BBC TC1 crew photo_with numbers-900px.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 321148 bytes Desc: not available URL: From phider at gmx.com Sun Jul 24 17:25:33 2022 From: phider at gmx.com (phider) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2022 23:25:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] More Found In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1N1fn0-1nVNdy33CC-011zgZ@mail.gmx.net> Taking a close look I recognise 2. John Lopes (South African) Cameraman then Vision Mixer, 15 Could be Andy Tallack, 17 Mike Figini (Camera), 18 I don't? think that is Alan Kerridge, 25 Norman Taylor, 35 Bill Coolidge (Set Operative), 43 'Mitch' Mitchell (King of the Inlay desk), 58 Daryl Blake.Best regardsPeter HiderSent from my Galaxy -------- Original message --------From: David Taylor via Tech1 Date: 24/07/2022 16:06 (GMT+00:00) To: David Newbitt Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat , Bernard Newnham Subject: Re: [Tech1] More Found Hi All,Are we playing this game again....'spot the people in the Our World crew photo'?Because it was hard to relate to the indicated faces, I put a larger scale photo, complete with 'ID nos' on each person, at the end of my original article.Go to the bottom before the 'credits and references' and then download the bigger shot, with the ID's.All names verified by 2 people will be accepted I think!Article at:?http://postfade.co.uk/television-sound/our-world-1967-the-world-of-tv-gets-connected-live-for-the-first-time-and-the-beatles-make-it-memorable/On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 at 15:34, David Newbitt wrote: Left and right as camera left and right. ? Front right holding roll of camera tape ? Doug Watson. On mother?s left ? Jim Stephens.? Behind mother ? Dave Hanks. Centre left, white shirt, rolled up sleeves ? Mike Conder. Almost dead centre, back right of Mike Conder poss. Alan Kerridge. Centre right, mid frame, striped tie ? Mike Langley Evans. Right of Mike ? poss. Alan Boyd. Right hand side, face only (in almost full profile) ? Greg Ade. Mid-right, bottle glass specs ? Graham Beebee. To the left of him, looking left, poss. John Hays. ? Loads more familiar faces but brain failure kicks in as ever with these group shots. ? Dave Newbitt. ? From: Mike Jordan via Tech1 Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 11:04 AM To: David Taylor ; Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] More Found ? Not forgetting a few pictures (from The Science Museum display). Anyone recognisable? ? Mike ? From: David Taylor via Tech1 Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2022 10:12 AM To: Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] More Found ? Bernard, Thanks again, it's great to have an insight into the TC2 side of 'Our World', as the other documents from Norman Taylor only showed the 'Master Control' element in TC1 CR. It would have been an even more world-embrassing programme if the Soviet Block hadn't pulled out at the last moment I can see. ? David T -- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1967_06_25-1967-Our World broadcast-BBC TC1 crew photo_with numbers-900px.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 321148 bytes Desc: not available URL: From glaisterbob at hotmail.com Mon Jul 25 05:34:23 2022 From: glaisterbob at hotmail.com (Bob Glaister) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 10:34:23 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Tech1 removal Message-ID: Bernie? Would you be please remove me from the Tech1 mailing list, and thank you for providing the info over the past years. Stay safe Bob Glaister Sent from Mail for Windows -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Tue Jul 26 07:09:31 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2022 12:09:31 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] iPhone camera technology Message-ID: If you are interested in cameras and wondered why your mobile phone has more than one lens, take a look at this. Start from 7mins 15secs in: youtube.com/watch?v=WeFmNJikaxg or tinyurl.com/4zntxav3 Cheers, N. Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 From dave at davesound.co.uk Tue Jul 26 10:02:30 2022 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2022 16:02:30 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] iPhone camera technology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd hope most on this forum would know why a camera would have more than one lens? ? On 26/07/2022 13:09, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > If you are interested in cameras and wondered why your mobile phone has more than one lens, take a look at this. Start from 7mins 15secs in: > youtube.com/watch?v=WeFmNJikaxg or tinyurl.com/4zntxav3 > Cheers, > N. > Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Jul 27 06:06:02 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 12:06:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] War of the Worlds Message-ID: <26422547-be0c-f37a-02b4-3bfd4a95d4ce@amps.net> There was an interesting programme transmitted on Sky Arts Freeview Ch11 on Sunday 24th. Jeff Wayne's Musical version of 'War of The Worlds'. It was a stage performance, very close to the CD sound and it was interesting to see the instrumental line-up, mostly guitars and sitar (I think) but with a vocoder thrown in.? The drummer had the hardest job, to maintain a constant driving rhythm for most of the performance. I was intrigued by a large video screen at the back of the stage, which showed various scenes to illustrate the story, and wondered if the examples were set up to a running time, or brought in on cue, as the synchronisation was accurate. Jeff Wayne was conducting and appeared to have a small video monitor to look at, so maybe that was the clue to keeping time. However, I missed the mellifluous tones of Richard Burton narration! I was first inroduced to it at a supper party in Kensington, the hostess played it for background music - very unusual, but I got fascinated with it! Anyone else see it? It might be available via Now TV on catch-up. Pat -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidvbrunt at gmail.com Wed Jul 27 06:10:32 2022 From: davidvbrunt at gmail.com (David Brunt) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 12:10:32 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] War of the Worlds In-Reply-To: <26422547-be0c-f37a-02b4-3bfd4a95d4ce@amps.net> References: <26422547-be0c-f37a-02b4-3bfd4a95d4ce@amps.net> Message-ID: That's the one released on DVD, isn't it? Liam Neeson and the like? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jeff-Waynes-Musical-Version-Worlds/dp/B08PSY89KJ/ On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 at 12:06, Pat Heigham via Tech1 wrote: > There was an interesting programme transmitted on Sky Arts Freeview Ch11 > on Sunday 24th. > > Jeff Wayne's Musical version of 'War of The Worlds'. It was a stage > performance, very close to the CD sound and it was interesting to see the > instrumental line-up, > mostly guitars and sitar (I think) but with a vocoder thrown in. The > drummer had the hardest job, to maintain a constant driving rhythm for most > of the performance. > > I was intrigued by a large video screen at the back of the stage, which > showed various scenes to illustrate the story, and wondered if the examples > were set up to a running time, or brought in on cue, as the s > ynchronisation was accurate. Jeff Wayne was conducting and appeared to > have a small video monitor to look at, so maybe that was the clue to > keeping time. > > However, I missed the mellifluous tones of Richard Burton narration! > > I was first inroduced to it at a supper party in Kensington, the hostess > played it for background music - very unusual, but I got fascinated with it! > > Anyone else see it? It might be available via Now TV on catch-up. > > Pat > > > ------------------------------ > [image: Avast logo] > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > <#m_-3546753793015267259_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Jul 27 06:41:57 2022 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (Pat Heigham) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 12:41:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] War of the Worlds In-Reply-To: References: <26422547-be0c-f37a-02b4-3bfd4a95d4ce@amps.net> Message-ID: Could be, David. It had Liam Neeson. I've only got the audio CD, of some years ago, which I'm pleased with. I believe it's possible to access the Orson Wells broadcast of 1938, from YouTube, which set the United States into a state of panic. Well they /are/ a bit gullible - which presumably is how Trump had such influence. Sorry Bernie that's getting politcal (US version!) More to read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Wayne%27s_Musical_Version_of_The_War_of_the_Worlds Pat On 27/07/2022 12:10, David Brunt wrote: > That's the one released on DVD, isn't it?? Liam Neeson and the like? > > https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jeff-Waynes-Musical-Version-Worlds/dp/B08PSY89KJ/ > > > On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 at 12:06, Pat Heigham via Tech1 > wrote: > > There was an interesting programme transmitted on Sky Arts > Freeview Ch11 on Sunday 24th. > > Jeff Wayne's Musical version of 'War of The Worlds'. It was a > stage performance, very close to the CD sound and it was > interesting to see the instrumental line-up, > mostly guitars and sitar (I think) but with a vocoder thrown in.? > The drummer had the hardest job, to maintain a constant driving > rhythm for most of the performance. > > I was intrigued by a large video screen at the back of the stage, > which showed various scenes to illustrate the story, and wondered > if the examples were set up to a running time, or brought in on > cue, as the synchronisation was accurate. Jeff Wayne was > conducting and appeared to have a small video monitor to look at, > so maybe that was the clue to keeping time. > > However, I missed the mellifluous tones of Richard Burton narration! > > I was first inroduced to it at a supper party in Kensington, the > hostess played it for background music - very unusual, but I got > fascinated with it! > > Anyone else see it? It might be available via Now TV on catch-up. > > Pat > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Avast logo > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > <#m_-3546753793015267259_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Wed Jul 27 10:14:37 2022 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 15:14:37 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] iPhone camera technology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just thought that people here might?.er?.oh well, never mind. N. Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > On 26 Jul 2022, at 16:03, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: > > ?I'd hope most on this forum would know why a camera would have more than one lens? ? > >> On 26/07/2022 13:09, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >> If you are interested in cameras and wondered why your mobile phone has more than one lens, take a look at this. Start from 7mins 15secs in: >> youtube.com/watch?v=WeFmNJikaxg or tinyurl.com/4zntxav3 >> Cheers, >> N. >> Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From graeme.wall at icloud.com Wed Jul 27 10:21:59 2022 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 16:21:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] iPhone camera technology In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I appreciated it Nick! Graeme Wall > On 27 Jul 2022, at 16:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > ?I just thought that people here might?.er?.oh well, never mind. > N. > Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 > >> On 26 Jul 2022, at 16:03, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote: >> >> ?I'd hope most on this forum would know why a camera would have more than one lens? ? >> >>>> On 26/07/2022 13:09, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >>> If you are interested in cameras and wondered why your mobile phone has more than one lens, take a look at this. Start from 7mins 15secs in: >>> youtube.com/watch?v=WeFmNJikaxg or tinyurl.com/4zntxav3 >>> Cheers, >>> N. >>> Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6 >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com Thu Jul 28 05:45:57 2022 From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (crew13) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 11:45:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] When Vladimir Presses the Button Update Message-ID: Having a clear out of emails came across loads of replies. I?ll go with Berns suggestion of going up the East Tower with a makeup artist or wardrobe assistant of choice and Graemes location catering bacon roll. Next big decision, red or brown sauce! John V From alanaudio at me.com Thu Jul 28 06:29:48 2022 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 12:29:48 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] When Vladimir Presses the Button Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How high is the east tower now that the property developers have been involved? Alan > On 28 Jul 2022, at 11:46, crew13 via Tech1 wrote: > > ?Having a clear out of emails came across loads of replies. > > I?ll go with Berns suggestion of going up the East Tower with a makeup artist or wardrobe assistant of choice and Graemes location catering bacon roll. > > Next big decision, red or brown sauce! > > John V > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk