[Tech1] Future heating

Wed Oct 20 18:02:20 CDT 2021

Mike, all I want is realism. And that doesn't come from a politician 
(who doesn't know an end feed from a Yorkshire) telling me I can replace 
my boiler with a heat pump for not much more than the cost of a new boiler.

I do believe there is a solution to any problem. But that requires 
careful research and a measured response.

On 20/10/2021 20:38, M E GILES via Tech1 wrote:
> Would it be crass of me to say that the exchanges in this thread are 
> in danger of becoming heated?
>
> My basic question to those who decry attempts to contribute to solving 
> a proven problem is “What would you do instead?” If you have 
> solutions, please let's have them, and I also agree that the 
> government does not yet seem to have a proper handle on this, (or 
> Covid, or the Irish border, etc., etc.,) for that matter, but the 
> answer is definitely not the status quo. If a solution to some 
> people’s situation doesn’t suit everybody, then that’s no reason to 
> deny it to those who could use it to all our benefit. And if the 
> problem is generating capacity, why are British Gas, (amongst others I 
> believe), touting the prospect that they will soon be leasing electric 
> cars, to encourage the use of /electricity/ (Bernie) as a fuel for 
> domestic cars.
>
> Open minds are always best and in the current scenario, 
> procrastination will not only be the thief of time, but the thief of 
> our descendants’ prospects of the decent life that we have enjoyed ~ 
> we really have been a blessed generation.
>
> Here endeth the sermon ~ I am not on a mount, by the way, but I am 
> very happy with our recently acquired PHEV, despite it’s limited range 
> on battery ~ I think that regenerative braking is the greatest thing 
> since sliced bread, except that I never did like sliced bread, 
> especially not that awful stream-cooked cotton wool produced by the 
> Chorley process ~ my only regret is that I was persuaded not to go the 
> whole hog, but we do have the benefit of a generous drive and a 100amp 
> feeder. Most of our journeys are fairly local and two or three hours 
> of an evening tops it up from a (new) 13amp outlet in the garage, with 
> no trace of overheating at the socket.
>
> My other regret in this respect is that I didn’t know about Elon 
> Musk’s solar roof tiles when we had our roof re-tiled a few years ago 
> ~ we hate the sight of huge rectangular panels superimposed on rooves, 
> but I wouldn’t have minded the Musk solution.
>
> Mike G
>
>> On 20 Oct 2021, at 19:10, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Chris, curious how a conventional boiler couldn't heat your house, 
>> but a heat pump can? Also I'd assume an old farmhouse has plenty land 
>> for a ground source system. This isn't the case for a big part of the 
>> housing stock. Of course decent insulation is the key. Sadly, again, 
>> this can be very difficult for much of our existing housing stock.
>>
>> On 20/10/2021 18:25, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>
>>> Heat pumps aren't rubbish.
>>>
>>> Half Europe has been using them for ages and it is only the 
>>> pig-ignorant British that are just beginning to catch up with the 
>>> technology.
>>>
>>> Since this country has never understood the need to keep expensive 
>>> heat inside a house (using insulation) we have only considered the 
>>> most ludicrous and wasteful ideas of blasting 10s of kWs into leaky 
>>> boxes and then complaining about the cost.
>>>
>>> Heat pumps are fabulously brilliant at producing 3-4 times the heat 
>>> energy out that is put in - no other heating can beat that. And they 
>>> run for years with no maintenance. The only thing about them that is 
>>> important to understand is that they work best if you run them at a 
>>> relatively low output temperature. If you have a house with 
>>> acceptable insulation and thermal control this is not a problem. If 
>>> you stick them in standard draughty, ill-constructed British home 
>>> you do have a problem, but it isn't the heat pump.
>>>
>>> My ground source heat pump has been running since 2013 and is doing 
>>> exactly what it was intended to do very efficiently. And it does 
>>> that in a very extensive, very old listed farmhouse that used to be 
>>> unheatable with an oil boiler, despite vast amounts of fossil juice 
>>> being fed in.
>>>
>>> As a country we do need to re-educate ourselves in how to heat homes 
>>> sensibly, and it isn't by just bolting on the cheapest replacement 
>>> piece of kit. It needs the" leak out", as well as the "energy in" 
>>> part of the equation to be considered.
>>>
>>> And I agree that the government has absolutely no concept of this 
>>> whatsoever.
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris Woolf
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20/10/2021 17:34, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uNKPDREa-Q
>>>>
>>>> It seems that everyone except the government knows that this stuff 
>>>> won't work. Heat pumps are rubbish, electric cars don't have enough 
>>>> charging points, and we don't make enough electric anyway.
>>>>
>>>> I remember about ten years ago wondering why we weren't developing 
>>>> the technology used in nuclear submarines.  This week we really 
>>>> have to have them - and we do.
>>>>
>>>> B
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 20/10/2021 17:08, doug prior via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have just watched an interesting conversation on youtube that 
>>>>> you may be interested in.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hydrogen boilers,heat pumps & the future of heating.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Doug Prior
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from OX Mail
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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