From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  1 06:08:12 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 11:08:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <CAA7MLyE=3gzCGvrSVEOv2Vo_Jahv68K46M4n34Gh5t7QZf0TeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA7MLyE=3gzCGvrSVEOv2Vo_Jahv68K46M4n34Gh5t7QZf0TeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0dff818b-a662-c93c-606a-49e7dd2feac5@btinternet.com>

It's quite difficult to find accurate figures about the costs to convert 
from ordinary CH to a heat pump. And accurate like for like running 
costs too. And it seems to be impractical to insulate existing 
properties well enough too.

On 31/10/2021 12:43, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
> https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-10147319/We-claimed-70-000-grants-heat-pump-saved-NOTHING.html 
>
>
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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  1 06:47:12 2021
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 11:47:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <0dff818b-a662-c93c-606a-49e7dd2feac5@btinternet.com>
References: <0dff818b-a662-c93c-606a-49e7dd2feac5@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>


Keeping this brief: A couple of years ago a neighbour converted to an Air Source heat pump at great expense. 

The result is that the house doesn?t get anywhere near warm enough. They have to rely on other means of heating to make the house warm enough to live in - from what they told us I don?t think there has been any advantage or cost saving.  
There was also a serious problem with the pump and the repairs took 6 months to fix - fortunately they hadn?t removed their old log burner!
We were surprised by the length of time they had to wait (with a non-working pump) for the repairs to be carried out. 

I?m not reporting this as a for/against heat pumps - just passing this info on. 

Steve 

> On 1 Nov 2021, at 11:08, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> It's quite difficult to find accurate figures about the costs to convert from ordinary CH to a heat pump. And accurate like for like running costs too. And it seems to be impractical to insulate existing properties well enough too.
> 
> On 31/10/2021 12:43, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>> https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-10147319/We-claimed-70-000-grants-heat-pump-saved-NOTHING.html 
>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 07:41:09 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 12:41:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
References: <0dff818b-a662-c93c-606a-49e7dd2feac5@btinternet.com>
	<908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <9383d24a-b205-232a-84bd-3de170df7e64@gmail.com>

Unless there are lurkers, only Chris Woolf on this list has direct 
knowledge of these things.

Talking to friends the other day, someone said that a while back they'd 
been offered free cavity wall insulation.? When the men came round they 
drilled holes to look in the gap, and they saw that some rubble had got 
in there during building.? It seems that you can't put insulation in if 
that had happened, so it didn't get done. My house has solid walls.

Someone else said that he'd been offered free loft insulation, but he'd 
have to take out all the stuff he'd put up there over the years, because 
the insulation would be an extra 30cm on top of the joists.? He thought 
that his junk would offer some insulation, and turned them down.

Apparently these same scenarios have applied to heat pumps in an 
experiment somewhere in the north, where thousands of homes were offered 
freebies and four took it up.

It still seems to me that if no one comes up with a super battery, or a 
super heat pump, the answer is going to be hydrogen, produced any way 
possible.? And in the shortish term, we need to produce our own fossil 
fuels.

B



On 01/11/2021 11:47, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Keeping this brief: A couple of years ago a neighbour converted to an 
> Air Source heat pump at great expense.
>
>
> The result is that the house doesn?t get anywhere near warm enough. 
> They have to rely on other means of heating to make the house warm 
> enough to live in - from what they told us I don?t think there has 
> been any advantage or cost saving.
>
> There was also a serious problem with the pump and the repairs took 6 
> months to fix - fortunately they hadn?t removed their old log burner!
>
> We were surprised by the length of time they had to wait (with a 
> non-working pump) for the repairs to be carried out.
>
>
> I?m not reporting this as a for/against heat pumps - just passing this 
> info on.
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>> On 1 Nov 2021, at 11:08, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> It's quite difficult to find accurate figures about the costs to 
>> convert from ordinary CH to a heat pump. And accurate like for like 
>> running costs too. And it seems to be impractical to insulate 
>> existing properties well enough too.
>>
>> On 31/10/2021 12:43, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>> https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-10147319/We-claimed-70-000-grants-heat-pump-saved-NOTHING.html 
>>>
>>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From dave at davesound.co.uk  Mon Nov  1 07:50:25 2021
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 12:50:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
References: <0dff818b-a662-c93c-606a-49e7dd2feac5@btinternet.com>
	<908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <d10eae0e-89e4-c466-fedf-e9e1da4a3808@davesound.co.uk>

Many many years ago, I installed my own central heating in this house. 
Larry Goodson did all the calculations for rad sizes etc. The good ol' 
days when you could find a true expert on anything at a tech ops coffee 
table.? And it worked just fine for about 30 years. Some 10 years ago, 
when doing a major refurbish of the bathroom, I decided to upgrade to a 
condensing boiler. A state of the art - then - Viessmann system boiler. 
Again, a self install. With plenty help from the Viessmann helpline - as 
the software controlling it a bit of a black art to me. And a few rads 
had to be increased in size due to the lower water temperature 
circulating through them.

Exactly the same - but more so - would happen if changing to a heat 
pump. And would the pipes feeding them be large enough? I suspect it 
would mean starting again from scratch. At a cost I'm unlikely to be 
able to afford and now far too old to self install.

I'm sure a heat pump system can be very good. But like all such things 
needs skilled designing. And when there is a rush to change from gas, 
there will be plenty cowboys out there just waiting to empty your wallet.

On 01/11/2021 11:47, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Keeping this brief: A couple of years ago a neighbour converted to an 
> Air Source heat pump at great expense.
>
>
> The result is that the house doesn?t get anywhere near warm enough. 
> They have to rely on other means of heating to make the house warm 
> enough to live in - from what they told us I don?t think there has 
> been any advantage or cost saving.
>
> There was also a serious problem with the pump and the repairs took 6 
> months to fix - fortunately they hadn?t removed their old log burner!
>
> We were surprised by the length of time they had to wait (with a 
> non-working pump) for the repairs to be carried out.
>
>
> I?m not reporting this as a for/against heat pumps - just passing this 
> info on.
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>> On 1 Nov 2021, at 11:08, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> It's quite difficult to find accurate figures about the costs to 
>> convert from ordinary CH to a heat pump. And accurate like for like 
>> running costs too. And it seems to be impractical to insulate 
>> existing properties well enough too.
>>
>> On 31/10/2021 12:43, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>> https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-10147319/We-claimed-70-000-grants-heat-pump-saved-NOTHING.html 
>>>
>>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Nov  1 08:13:11 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 13:13:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <9383d24a-b205-232a-84bd-3de170df7e64@gmail.com>
References: <0dff818b-a662-c93c-606a-49e7dd2feac5@btinternet.com>
	<908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
	<9383d24a-b205-232a-84bd-3de170df7e64@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <617fe7e5.1c69fb81.1e97c.a9ae@mx.google.com>

My small block of flats (8 ? 2 storey) was offered cavity wall insulation, but with a shufti-scope, builder?s rubble was at the bottom, so same problem. Also our managing agents advised against it, since there was no barrier between floors, so if the upper floor didn?t want it, no deal. It?s impossible to remove if later that is required.
I have friends whose original house suffered subsidence. The insurance company got fed up with paying out, and subscribed to a new build, ecologically excellent, no solar panels, but with a heat pump servicing underfloor heating, which seems to work well. They also have internal wall panels which don?t need much use, apparently, and the house is superbly insulated.
Oh, and a wood stove in the sitting room ? lovely!

Regards
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 01 November 2021 12:41
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1]We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online

Unless there are lurkers, only Chris Woolf on this list has direct knowledge of these things.

Talking to friends the other day, someone said that a while back they'd been offered free cavity wall insulation.? When the men came round they drilled holes to look in the gap, and they saw that some rubble had got in there during building.? It seems that you can't put insulation in if that had happened, so it didn't get done. My house has solid walls.

Someone else said that he'd been offered free loft insulation, but he'd have to take out all the stuff he'd put up there over the years, because the insulation would be an extra 30cm on top of the joists.? He thought that his junk would offer some insulation, and turned them down.? 

Apparently these same scenarios have applied to heat pumps in an experiment somewhere in the north, where thousands of homes were offered freebies and four took it up.

It still seems to me that if no one comes up with a super battery, or a super heat pump, the answer is going to be hydrogen, produced any way possible.? And in the shortish term, we need to produce our own fossil fuels.

B

? 



-- 
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From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Nov  1 08:13:45 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 13:13:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
References: <908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <77C1278D-A798-460D-ACEB-61473BF8E6CF@me.com>

It seems to me that heat pumps must be digital.  Owners either describe them as being the best thing since sliced bread, or else they were an unmitigated disaster.  I can?t recall many reports where the owners are right in the middle between those two extremes.

I suspect that the explanation is more to do with inappropriate specifications, poor planning and unreasonable expectations. The concept is certainly good if the rest of the house ( insulation, radiators, pipe work and hot water system ) is suitable for working with a heat pump, but as it?s still relatively unfamiliar technology in the UK, I?m not convinced that most installations so far have been particularly well designed or implemented.

I?d like to think that as professionals become more familiar with them, ?best practice? will become the norm and customers will normally be happy rather than disappointed.  However that?s not much consolation for anybody who has already spent ?10k plus on a flawed installation which doesn?t deliver the results they hoped for.

I would add that the places I know of with heat pumps only regard them as background heating, keeping the house at an even but slightly cool temperature.  The lounge would also use another form of heating if you?re sitting around. Round here they nearly always use a log burner.  People who have been accustomed to gas or oil central heating often set the timer so that heat is only produced when it?s needed.  Heat pumps won?t quickly warm up a house in the same way.

Running cost comparisons might sometimes be misleading because a heat pump installation is usually accompanied by significant upgrades to the insulation. The previous heating system would also be more economical once the insulation was upgraded to that standard. 

Much of the problem with heat pumps in the UK can be attributed to our houses being poorly insulated compared to houses in Northern Europe. My in-laws in Germany have an apartment in a city and also a converted mill in a very remote setting. The apartment was built in the 1950s, while the mill house was built in the early 1900s.  For the last thirty years or more, both of them have doors and windows which are significantly more thermally efficient than equivalents in the UK. The same is true for most buildings over there. At the mill, the walls are well insulated and the roof has an impressively thick layer of insulation. They don?t have heat pumps, the apartment is communally heated, while the mill uses wood burners which pipe hot water to radiators in other rooms. The mill might have been an excellent candidate for a water sourced heat pump, however the trees surrounding the mill provide them with unlimited quantities of free firewood. It only costs them a little fuel for the chainsaw and electricity for the log splitting machine. The electricity supply to the mill is often unreliable in cold weather, so their heating system using free logs and not needing electricity offers unique advantages when weather conditions are harsh.

Alan Taylor

 

> On 1 Nov 2021, at 11:47, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> 
> Keeping this brief: A couple of years ago a neighbour converted to an Air Source heat pump at great expense. 
> 
> The result is that the house doesn?t get anywhere near warm enough. They have to rely on other means of heating to make the house warm enough to live in - from what they told us I don?t think there has been any advantage or cost saving.  
> There was also a serious problem with the pump and the repairs took 6 months to fix - fortunately they hadn?t removed their old log burner!
> We were surprised by the length of time they had to wait (with a non-working pump) for the repairs to be carried out. 
> 
> I?m not reporting this as a for/against heat pumps - just passing this info on. 
> 
> Steve 
> 
>>> On 1 Nov 2021, at 11:08, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> It's quite difficult to find accurate figures about the costs to convert from ordinary CH to a heat pump. And accurate like for like running costs too. And it seems to be impractical to insulate existing properties well enough too.
>> 
>> On 31/10/2021 12:43, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>> https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-10147319/We-claimed-70-000-grants-heat-pump-saved-NOTHING.html 
>>> 
>>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Nov  1 08:18:38 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 13:18:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
References: <0dff818b-a662-c93c-606a-49e7dd2feac5@btinternet.com>
	<908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <f42458cf-4e8c-a274-b1fd-b7ddf573052f@chriswoolf.co.uk>

My suspicion about these problems is that they are caused by there being 
precious little technical knowledge ~within the UK~ on both the 
installation and running of these systems. If you talk to people like 
Kensa (a heatpump manufacturer in Cornwall) they are full of stories 
about installers trying to cut corners on the sizing of pumps, boreholes 
etc to squeeze more profit for the installers. Many under-spec the 
source heat and end up with a buffer tank being heated by full price 
electricity with no CoP multiplication.? And the level of disruption 
that adding appreciable insulation to a house puts many owners off - or 
persuades them to make half-hearted choices.

There are some 10s of millions of heatpumps in use throughout the world, 
so the technology, and its ability to heat houses properly, even in much 
colder climates than ours, isn't in question - merely the application of 
the technique within the UK. It is new to us, and installers - and the 
media - are wary and ill-informed about it.

The? ground-source installation at West Killatown, with 5 boreholes, 
full underfloor heating with enormous slate slabs having to be lifted, 
the rock dug out, insulation and thermal screeding? laid etc didn't cost 
anywhere near ?70k.

The media will always be able to find scare stories about something new 
not working. Seat belts were going to trap people in cars, unleaded 
petrol would make it impossible to run most engines, home computers 
would never catch on... In ten years it will look very different. 
Currently Norway has about 60% of homes using heatpumps, Sweden >40%, 
the UK about 1% - says it all really.

Chris Woolf




On 01/11/2021 11:47, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Keeping this brief: A couple of years ago a neighbour converted to an 
> Air Source heat pump at great expense.
>
>
> The result is that the house doesn?t get anywhere near warm enough. 
> They have to rely on other means of heating to make the house warm 
> enough to live in - from what they told us I don?t think there has 
> been any advantage or cost saving.
>
> There was also a serious problem with the pump and the repairs took 6 
> months to fix - fortunately they hadn?t removed their old log burner!
>
> We were surprised by the length of time they had to wait (with a 
> non-working pump) for the repairs to be carried out.
>
>
> I?m not reporting this as a for/against heat pumps - just passing this 
> info on.
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>> On 1 Nov 2021, at 11:08, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> It's quite difficult to find accurate figures about the costs to 
>> convert from ordinary CH to a heat pump. And accurate like for like 
>> running costs too. And it seems to be impractical to insulate 
>> existing properties well enough too.
>>
>> On 31/10/2021 12:43, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>> https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-10147319/We-claimed-70-000-grants-heat-pump-saved-NOTHING.html 
>>>
>>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

-- 
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  1 08:43:54 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 13:43:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <77C1278D-A798-460D-ACEB-61473BF8E6CF@me.com>
References: <908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
	<77C1278D-A798-460D-ACEB-61473BF8E6CF@me.com>
Message-ID: <b7e18d45-ab34-8c9b-474a-2fbe20f88fef@btinternet.com>

Would like to just point out that a domestic wood burner produces more 
emissions - CO2, NOx and particulates - than the equivalent heat from a 
modern domestic gas boiler.

Electricity generation using wood in a state of the art furnace is only 
slightly better, emissions wise, than using natural gas. And that 
assumes using the very best wood based fuel.

Domestic wood burners may well use more 'sustainable' fuel for some, but 
are not the answer to climate change.

On 01/11/2021 13:13, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> It seems to me that heat pumps must be digital. ?Owners either 
> describe them as being the best thing since sliced bread, or else they 
> were an unmitigated disaster. ?I can?t recall many reports where the 
> owners are right in the middle between those two extremes.
>
> I suspect that the explanation is more to do with inappropriate 
> specifications, poor planning and unreasonable expectations. The 
> concept is certainly good if the rest of the house ( insulation, 
> radiators, pipe work and hot water system ) is suitable for working 
> with a heat pump, but as it?s still relatively unfamiliar technology 
> in the UK, I?m not convinced that most installations so far have been 
> particularly well designed or implemented.
>
> I?d like to think that as professionals become more familiar with 
> them, ?best practice? will become the norm and customers will normally 
> be happy rather than disappointed. ?However that?s not much 
> consolation for anybody who has already spent ?10k plus on a flawed 
> installation which doesn?t deliver the results they hoped for.
>
> I would add that the places I know of with heat pumps only regard them 
> as background heating, keeping the house at an even but slightly cool 
> temperature. ?The lounge would also use another form of heating if 
> you?re sitting around. Round here they nearly always use a log burner. 
> ?People who have been accustomed to gas or oil central heating often 
> set the timer so that heat is only produced when it?s needed. ?Heat 
> pumps won?t quickly warm up a house in the same way.
>
> Running cost comparisons might sometimes be misleading because a heat 
> pump installation is usually accompanied by significant upgrades to 
> the insulation. The previous heating system would also be more 
> economical once the insulation was upgraded to that standard.
>
> Much of the problem with heat pumps in the UK can be attributed to our 
> houses being poorly insulated compared to houses in Northern Europe. 
> My in-laws in Germany have an apartment in a city and also a converted 
> mill in a very remote setting. The apartment was built in the 1950s, 
> while the mill house was built in the early 1900s. ?For the last 
> thirty years or more, both of them have doors and windows which are 
> significantly more thermally efficient than equivalents in the UK. The 
> same is true for most buildings over there. At the mill, the walls are 
> well insulated and the roof has an impressively thick layer of 
> insulation. They don?t have heat pumps, the apartment is communally 
> heated, while the mill uses wood burners which pipe hot water to 
> radiators in other rooms. The mill might have been an excellent 
> candidate for a water sourced heat pump, however the trees surrounding 
> the mill provide them with unlimited quantities of free firewood. It 
> only costs them a little fuel for the chainsaw and electricity for the 
> log splitting machine. The electricity supply to the mill is often 
> unreliable in cold weather, so their heating system using free logs 
> and not needing electricity offers unique advantages when weather 
> conditions are harsh.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>> On 1 Nov 2021, at 11:47, Steve Edwards via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Keeping this brief: A couple of years ago a neighbour converted to an 
>> Air Source heat pump at great expense.
>>
>>
>> The result is that the house doesn?t get anywhere near warm enough. 
>> They have to rely on other means of heating to make the house warm 
>> enough to live in - from what they told us I don?t think there has 
>> been any advantage or cost saving.
>>
>> There was also a serious problem with the pump and the repairs took 6 
>> months to fix - fortunately they hadn?t removed their old log burner!
>>
>> We were surprised by the length of time they had to wait (with a 
>> non-working pump) for the repairs to be carried out.
>>
>>
>> I?m not reporting this as a for/against heat pumps - just passing 
>> this info on.
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>> On 1 Nov 2021, at 11:08, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> It's quite difficult to find accurate figures about the costs to 
>>> convert from ordinary CH to a heat pump. And accurate like for like 
>>> running costs too. And it seems to be impractical to insulate 
>>> existing properties well enough too.
>>>
>>> On 31/10/2021 12:43, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-10147319/We-claimed-70-000-grants-heat-pump-saved-NOTHING.html 
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Nov  1 09:07:55 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 14:07:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <617fe7e5.1c69fb81.1e97c.a9ae@mx.google.com>
References: <0dff818b-a662-c93c-606a-49e7dd2feac5@btinternet.com>
	<908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
	<9383d24a-b205-232a-84bd-3de170df7e64@gmail.com>
	<617fe7e5.1c69fb81.1e97c.a9ae@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <d8f11ffe-c5b5-2c7c-f8b1-8e539754173f@chriswoolf.co.uk>

The various comments about cavity walls having "bridging" rubble are 
desperately common, and illustrate the abysmal level of building quality 
in the UK. That problem was known to cause damp, long before the thermal 
insulation argument became standard.

While solid walls inevitably exist in very old buildings - and can be a 
thermal advantage if very thick and also kept dry - it is amazing how 
long builders in the UK still built brick as "solid" about 4-5 decades 
after the double-skin technique was recognised as being superior. The 
hope of keeping any heat in a house with 9" brick walls, or even 4" (as 
you frequently meet in add-on bathrooms) is laughable.

To help insulate some of the walls most subject to really bad weather - 
direct storm and torrential rain - we used slate-hanging. It gives a 
massive increase in actual U-value. There is a lot of reticence amongst 
owners and even planners about adding versions of external 
double-skinning for insulation, but it isn't as impossible as many imagine.

What scares me most is the dreadful construction and insulation 
techniques employed for the current spat of house-building around the 
country. Buyers don't differentiate between the poxy timber-framed stuff 
with a design life of <40years (at best) and slightly better, but still 
appallingly insulated, block or brick built homes, and thus pay the same 
price for both. They may find the selling price of a hard-to-mortgage 
short-life house sadly depressed. This is the best way to generate the 
slums of a rather-too-near future.

Chris Woolf



>
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Mon Nov  1 10:39:00 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 15:39:00 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
	=?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
	=?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <d8f11ffe-c5b5-2c7c-f8b1-8e539754173f@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <0dff818b-a662-c93c-606a-49e7dd2feac5@btinternet.com><908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com><9383d24a-b205-232a-84bd-3de170df7e64@gmail.com><617fe7e5.1c69fb81.1e97c.a9ae@mx.google.com>
	<d8f11ffe-c5b5-2c7c-f8b1-8e539754173f@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <A4EB8FDDA1254E55952D2FB07B42D576@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Totally underwrite comments re cavity cleanliness or rather lack thereof. Spent a number of years with Builders Merchant firms and regularly witnessed while on construction sites the often abysmal quality of general site practice.

Time was when the norm for properly trained bricklayers was to suspend a cavity width board on strings sitting on the lowest level of brick ties to catch mortar droppings This would then be pulled up and cleaned off when the newly laid courses reached the height for the next row of ties (typically 6 courses with modern metric bricks). This is a laborious process and not the only way of dealing with the problem but I have seen build-up of mortar droppings at the base of a wall well above the dpc not to mention falling mortar catching on the wall ties and forming multiple damp bridges. A house I once had in Ashtead back in the 70?s fell foul of unsatisfactory inspection findings and the firm on site ready to start the insulation infill refused and baled out.

Alan may well be able to feed into this observation that in Germany, for a long time it was not the norm for people to buy and own houses early in their working lives. This was because the building standards were far higher and costs therefore generally only feasible for purchasers well into their careers. I think general standards evolved in the UK to meet a lower cost base aimed at early home ownership.

Just a thought,

Dave Newbitt.

From: Chris Woolf via Tech1 
Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 2:07 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online

The various comments about cavity walls having "bridging" rubble are desperately common, and illustrate the abysmal level of building quality in the UK. That problem was known to cause damp, long before the thermal insulation argument became standard.

While solid walls inevitably exist in very old buildings - and can be a thermal advantage if very thick and also kept dry - it is amazing how long builders in the UK still built brick as "solid" about 4-5 decades after the double-skin technique was recognised as being superior. The hope of keeping any heat in a house with 9" brick walls, or even 4" (as you frequently meet in add-on bathrooms) is laughable. 


To help insulate some of the walls most subject to really bad weather - direct storm and torrential rain - we used slate-hanging. It gives a massive increase in actual U-value. There is a lot of reticence amongst owners and even planners about adding versions of external double-skinning for insulation, but it isn't as impossible as many imagine.

What scares me most is the dreadful construction and insulation techniques employed for the current spat of house-building around the country. Buyers don't differentiate between the poxy timber-framed stuff with a design life of <40years (at best) and slightly better, but still appallingly insulated, block or brick built homes, and thus pay the same price for both. They may find the selling price of a hard-to-mortgage short-life house sadly depressed. This is the best way to generate the slums of a rather-too-near future.

Chris Woolf







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From relong at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  1 11:11:13 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 16:11:13 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <d8f11ffe-c5b5-2c7c-f8b1-8e539754173f@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <0dff818b-a662-c93c-606a-49e7dd2feac5@btinternet.com>
	<908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
	<9383d24a-b205-232a-84bd-3de170df7e64@gmail.com>
	<617fe7e5.1c69fb81.1e97c.a9ae@mx.google.com>
	<d8f11ffe-c5b5-2c7c-f8b1-8e539754173f@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <F53FDCE2-B7B3-4D27-949B-64EAE29568CA@btinternet.com>

My friend has recently installed at a cost of ?50k + ground based heat pump with 4 x140m bore holes and a machine room.
His cottage was renovated 25 yrs ago and has a high insulation quotient and plenty of rads.
He has no winter experience yet but expects to run the system continuously in cold weather.
Water tap temps are 40 degrees compared with 60 from the boiler , rads are similar and provide constant background heating.
They have 2 wood burners.
Running costs may be the same as oil, but without the carbon footprint.
He has also invested in a Volkswagen EV , he likes the car ,hates the operating system.
Coming  back from Hols last week he had an electrical fire in his Loo, unconnected with the new system.
25 yr old wiring smouldered and then burst into flames, luckily when they were in, the consumer unit did not protect them, they now have a 100amp fuse for the main supply  , a powder extinguisher put the flames out.
His spark says the 50Hz system continuously vibrates and can cause conflagration in some occasions?
A cautionary tale for the all electric house.
A friend in Peterhead is nearly self sufficient in energy from PV panels and 2 Tesla Batteries ,he extensively insulated and extended his croft and was an early Tesla adapter , and got grants and a share bonus of ?40k for his model 3.
Obviously we can all do our bit, our cottage is heavily insulated, and Im contemplating an EV soon, wether we bore down 140m and have a machine room in the boiler shed is an unknown , I will see how Bruce fares with his new install.
Im thinking of Lease hiring an EV over 3 yrs, then I can change to the latest model , perhaps with enhanced additions.
Brave New World, will it save the Planet, I doubt it.
Roger
PS we had Swedish factory build wooden and Gypsum house (18? walls) in the 70s, it was incredibly warm  but difficult to find a mortgage, they are still standing and very presentable Chris.

> On 1 Nov 2021, at 14:07, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> The various comments about cavity walls having "bridging" rubble are desperately common, and illustrate the abysmal level of building quality in the UK. That problem was known to cause damp, long before the thermal insulation argument became standard.
> 
> While solid walls inevitably exist in very old buildings - and can be a thermal advantage if very thick and also kept dry - it is amazing how long builders in the UK still built brick as "solid" about 4-5 decades after the double-skin technique was recognised as being superior. The hope of keeping any heat in a house with 9" brick walls, or even 4" (as you frequently meet in add-on bathrooms) is laughable. 
> 
> To help insulate some of the walls most subject to really bad weather - direct storm and torrential rain - we used slate-hanging. It gives a massive increase in actual U-value. There is a lot of reticence amongst owners and even planners about adding versions of external double-skinning for insulation, but it isn't as impossible as many imagine.
> 
> What scares me most is the dreadful construction and insulation techniques employed for the current spat of house-building around the country. Buyers don't differentiate between the poxy timber-framed stuff with a design life of <40years (at best) and slightly better, but still appallingly insulated, block or brick built homes, and thus pay the same price for both. They may find the selling price of a hard-to-mortgage short-life house sadly depressed. This is the best way to generate the slums of a rather-too-near future.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>>   <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>	
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  1 11:22:19 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 16:22:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <A4EB8FDDA1254E55952D2FB07B42D576@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <0dff818b-a662-c93c-606a-49e7dd2feac5@btinternet.com>
	<908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
	<9383d24a-b205-232a-84bd-3de170df7e64@gmail.com>
	<617fe7e5.1c69fb81.1e97c.a9ae@mx.google.com>
	<d8f11ffe-c5b5-2c7c-f8b1-8e539754173f@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<A4EB8FDDA1254E55952D2FB07B42D576@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <694838a9-89ad-9bf1-649f-e6b21074aaa7@gmail.com>

In a slightly different direction, my elder son has just bought a park 
home. Basically, it's a fixed caravan, but effectively its a detached 
one bedroom bungalow with garden, and parking place, properly insulated 
all round, double glazed,? with a tiled roof, and rust proofed frame 
underneath, all easily maintained. The land is owned by the people in 
the homes, so no nasty landlord. A committee of the residents run the 
place.

To get to it you turn off the main road down a private lane and arrive 
at a gated car park, and the homes are spaced down a Chiltern hill, with 
views across the valley. Very quiet and very pretty. If you didn't know 
the place was there you would be unlikely to find it. ? People don't 
bother to lock their doors, and the place is a proper community with 
kids running free. It's all actually rather impressive.

You'd think the homes would depreciate, but they don't - because they're 
in demand, and because maintenance is cheap. There are various sizes, so 
he can trade up if he wants. A comparable flat in the local town is 
around ?200,000. My son's place - ?70,000. No wonder they're in demand.

B
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Nov  1 12:02:40 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 17:02:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <A4EB8FDDA1254E55952D2FB07B42D576@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <0dff818b-a662-c93c-606a-49e7dd2feac5@btinternet.com>
	<908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
	<9383d24a-b205-232a-84bd-3de170df7e64@gmail.com>
	<617fe7e5.1c69fb81.1e97c.a9ae@mx.google.com>
	<d8f11ffe-c5b5-2c7c-f8b1-8e539754173f@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<A4EB8FDDA1254E55952D2FB07B42D576@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <50e947de-dad8-a2f3-0056-3f339280f8e4@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 01/11/2021 15:39, David Newbitt wrote:
> ....This was because the building standards were far higher and costs 
> therefore generally only feasible for purchasers well into their 
> careers. I think general standards evolved in the UK to meet a lower 
> cost base aimed at early home ownership.
>
A good explanation, though Europe has never been so enthralled by house 
ownership. They've tended to see houses as places to live in rather than 
investment assets.

As with so many purchases nowadays the cost of ownership rarely features 
in people's sums - only the headline purchase price. Many people 
recognise the ridiculous low price of a Ryanair flight to a cheap 
airfield in the wilds, with the accompanying horrendous taxi fare to get 
you to where you actually want to go. Yet they fail to see a similar 
situation in the houses they buy.

Chris Woolf


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From waresound at msn.com  Mon Nov  1 12:03:57 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 17:03:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <77C1278D-A798-460D-ACEB-61473BF8E6CF@me.com>
References: <908F5E99-54F3-4F5E-9CD6-B61C3689429E@btinternet.com>
	<77C1278D-A798-460D-ACEB-61473BF8E6CF@me.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981ACB2866A5E8F1E757EE4A78A9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

But it seems they are somewhere near the middle temperature-wise, so clearly not entirely digital! Unless it?s either working (1) or not working (0).
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 1 Nov 2021, at 13:14, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> [snip]?
> It seems to me that heat pumps must be digital.  Owners either describe them as being the best thing since sliced bread, or else they were an unmitigated disaster.  I can?t recall many reports where the owners are right in the middle between those two extremes.

From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  1 12:57:34 2021
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 17:57:34 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981ACB2866A5E8F1E757EE4A78A9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAXP191MB1981ACB2866A5E8F1E757EE4A78A9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <AC7F95C3-441E-4649-A738-0FBD752E1F24@btinternet.com>


In older houses we have to remember that lime mortar was used as the main building medium to bed bricks/stonework.  Walls were generally thicker or solid construction as they also relied on their weight to keep them together because lime doesn?t work like cement by strongly ?glueing? each brick or stone together.  A single leaf lime mortar brick wall would have very limited or no strength which is one of the reasons why typical single leaf brick cavities didn?t become commonplace until cement mortar started to replace lime mortar around the Edwardian period. (This didn?t happen overnight)

Unfortunately there is a bigger overlooked problem with cavity wall construction: The deterioration/corrosion of steel wall ties (where steel ties were used) - as far as I?m aware this didn?t become apparent and wasn?t a recognised problem until the 1960s by which time a lot of cavity walls had been built! ?.and it wasn?t until more recently that stainless steel was used. 

The ?theory? was that the gap between in cavity walls was only backfilled with lean mix concrete up to approx 1ft below floor level in order to avoid mortar snots building up higher than DPC level and therefore avoiding transmission of damp from any bridges to the inner wall leaf. (I did say theory, not practice)

Generally speaking building quality initially went down after First World War then further declined following the Second World War as labour the old school tradesmen were lost - the trend in real architecture was lost, the work was generally of poorer quality as were the materials used.  We also need to remember the wages of various tradesmen/builders were relatively low - even into the 1970s and property values/demand was nowhere near what it is today.  Building techniques have evolved (but not necessary for the better!)

Steve





> On 1 Nov 2021, at 17:04, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?But it seems they are somewhere near the middle temperature-wise, so clearly not entirely digital! Unless it?s either working (1) or not working (0).
> N.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 1 Nov 2021, at 13:14, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> [snip]?
>> It seems to me that heat pumps must be digital.  Owners either describe them as being the best thing since sliced bread, or else they were an unmitigated disaster.  I can?t recall many reports where the owners are right in the middle between those two extremes.
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Nov  1 13:55:53 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2021 18:55:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <50e947de-dad8-a2f3-0056-3f339280f8e4@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <50e947de-dad8-a2f3-0056-3f339280f8e4@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <F7F24FAA-A8F6-4C0F-9825-49859ACACD9C@me.com>

Renting is a home is very commonplace in Germany, but tenants usually stay put for lengthy periods.  One German peculiarity is that a fitted kitchen might not be part of the tenancy. You rent a place with an empty kitchen and get it fitted to your requirements.  I asked what happens to the kitchen at the end of the tenancy, but didn?t properly understand the answer, although it seemed to be that the tenant is expected to remove the fittings, which seems incredibly wasteful.

One thing that European builders have got nicely sorted is doors and windows.  I especially like the continental style of windows which open in a top hung fashion or a side hung fashion depending on how you operate the handle. New windows or doors generally arrive already fitted to a precision engineered frame with proper draught sealing and complex rebates, so you never feel a draught near a closed window or door. Triple glazing is often standard in recent houses. Another thing is that continental windows generally open into the room while British windows open outwards. That might be one reason why window boxes are found almost everywhere on the continent, but are not so often seen in Britain.

In the Banbury area there are a lot of new builds and one thing which amazes me is how often I drive past a completed development and then a month or two later see that scaffolding has gone up on some of the houses to allow rectification of a problem which has come to light.  It doesn?t suggest high quality workmanship or quality control. 

It?s frightening to see the new builds being thrown up.  If it?s a wooden framed house, the first step after the foundations seems to be to build a scaffolding shell the height of the walls.  Then a lorry arrives with pre-built frames and a crane drops them into position.  By the end of the day, the house has magically appeared. They then put up a veneer of brickwork on the outside and build the roof.  It all seems rather frail.

Having said that,  I did observe a HuffHaus being assembled near my previous house.  It was an ncredibly speedy process and unlike the Persimmon or Bovis estate houses, it looks quite substantial.  Maybe proper prefabrication is the way forward in the UK, but I would not like the way I?ve seen it done in the US.  A complete prefabricated, fully decorated  bathroom was craned into a new build and simply connected up to water, drainage and electricity. No further work was needed.  I asked what happens when you need to subsequently need to replace something like the WC or shower and was told that you take the roof off, disconnect and lift out the faulty bathroom before dropping in a replacement bathroom.

Each region has its own ?normal? way of building houses and to foreigners it may seem very strange. Try explaining  a 13A ring main and fused plugs to an American and then when they dismiss it as sheer lunacy, then explain that we can have electric kettles which work well, while they can?t ( 110V 10A sockets only deliver just over 1kW, while ours deliver 3kW ).

Alan Taylor

> On 1 Nov 2021, at 17:04, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> On 01/11/2021 15:39, David Newbitt wrote:
>> ....This was because the building standards were far higher and costs therefore generally only feasible for purchasers well into their careers. I think general standards evolved in the UK to meet a lower cost base aimed at early home ownership. 
>>  
>> 
> A good explanation, though Europe has never been so enthralled by house ownership. They've tended to see houses as places to live in rather than investment assets.
> 
> As with so many purchases nowadays the cost of ownership rarely features in people's sums - only the headline purchase price. Many people recognise the ridiculous low price of a Ryanair flight to a cheap airfield in the wilds, with the accompanying horrendous taxi fare to get you to where you actually want to go. Yet they fail to see a similar situation in the houses they buy.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
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From relong at btinternet.com  Tue Nov  2 04:48:27 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 09:48:27 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <F7F24FAA-A8F6-4C0F-9825-49859ACACD9C@me.com>
References: <50e947de-dad8-a2f3-0056-3f339280f8e4@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<F7F24FAA-A8F6-4C0F-9825-49859ACACD9C@me.com>
Message-ID: <CFDCFA1E-FC8F-4B18-B4DC-139F2D3D8895@btinternet.com>

I did note that after the German and Belgian floods many of the old riverine towns had debris from prefab houses like Huff whilst the old stone houses survived intact.
Pre fab is the way to go, basically we have to start again, and rebuild our housing stock.
Hydrogen is a dead end, green electricity is the only answer, we must build more nuclear and fast.
The Israelis and the Americans are aiming for new chemistry and a 600m battery.
These are fantastic goals ,we could achieve them, the Manhatten Project took 20 months, many factories and academics worked on that.
Could we harness the same forces to reduce CO2 ?
India will be carbon neutral in 2070?.
Roger

> On 1 Nov 2021, at 18:55, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Renting is a home is very commonplace in Germany, but tenants usually stay put for lengthy periods.  One German peculiarity is that a fitted kitchen might not be part of the tenancy. You rent a place with an empty kitchen and get it fitted to your requirements.  I asked what happens to the kitchen at the end of the tenancy, but didn?t properly understand the answer, although it seemed to be that the tenant is expected to remove the fittings, which seems incredibly wasteful.
> 
> One thing that European builders have got nicely sorted is doors and windows.  I especially like the continental style of windows which open in a top hung fashion or a side hung fashion depending on how you operate the handle. New windows or doors generally arrive already fitted to a precision engineered frame with proper draught sealing and complex rebates, so you never feel a draught near a closed window or door. Triple glazing is often standard in recent houses. Another thing is that continental windows generally open into the room while British windows open outwards. That might be one reason why window boxes are found almost everywhere on the continent, but are not so often seen in Britain.
> 
> In the Banbury area there are a lot of new builds and one thing which amazes me is how often I drive past a completed development and then a month or two later see that scaffolding has gone up on some of the houses to allow rectification of a problem which has come to light.  It doesn?t suggest high quality workmanship or quality control. 
> 
> It?s frightening to see the new builds being thrown up.  If it?s a wooden framed house, the first step after the foundations seems to be to build a scaffolding shell the height of the walls.  Then a lorry arrives with pre-built frames and a crane drops them into position.  By the end of the day, the house has magically appeared. They then put up a veneer of brickwork on the outside and build the roof.  It all seems rather frail.
> 
> Having said that,  I did observe a HuffHaus being assembled near my previous house.  It was an ncredibly speedy process and unlike the Persimmon or Bovis estate houses, it looks quite substantial.  Maybe proper prefabrication is the way forward in the UK, but I would not like the way I?ve seen it done in the US.  A complete prefabricated, fully decorated  bathroom was craned into a new build and simply connected up to water, drainage and electricity. No further work was needed.  I asked what happens when you need to subsequently need to replace something like the WC or shower and was told that you take the roof off, disconnect and lift out the faulty bathroom before dropping in a replacement bathroom.
> 
> Each region has its own ?normal? way of building houses and to foreigners it may seem very strange. Try explaining  a 13A ring main and fused plugs to an American and then when they dismiss it as sheer lunacy, then explain that we can have electric kettles which work well, while they can?t ( 110V 10A sockets only deliver just over 1kW, while ours deliver 3kW ).
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
>> On 1 Nov 2021, at 17:04, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> 
>> 
>> On 01/11/2021 15:39, David Newbitt wrote:
>>> ....This was because the building standards were far higher and costs therefore generally only feasible for purchasers well into their careers. I think general standards evolved in the UK to meet a lower cost base aimed at early home ownership. 
>>>  
>> A good explanation, though Europe has never been so enthralled by house ownership. They've tended to see houses as places to live in rather than investment assets.
>> 
>> As with so many purchases nowadays the cost of ownership rarely features in people's sums - only the headline purchase price. Many people recognise the ridiculous low price of a Ryanair flight to a cheap airfield in the wilds, with the accompanying horrendous taxi fare to get you to where you actually want to go. Yet they fail to see a similar situation in the houses they buy.
>> 
>> Chris Woolf
>> 
>> 
>>  <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>	Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> <x-msg://8/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>-- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
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From relong at btinternet.com  Tue Nov  2 04:59:01 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 09:59:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <CFDCFA1E-FC8F-4B18-B4DC-139F2D3D8895@btinternet.com>
References: <50e947de-dad8-a2f3-0056-3f339280f8e4@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<F7F24FAA-A8F6-4C0F-9825-49859ACACD9C@me.com>
	<CFDCFA1E-FC8F-4B18-B4DC-139F2D3D8895@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <2E670176-9DBD-4032-8F78-EE62BF9DCAEF@btinternet.com>

Store Dot hopes to produce Silicone battery chemistry that can be charged in 10 minutes and give a Tesla 3 LR  600miles range
These will be available in 2024.




From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Tue Nov  2 05:22:46 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 10:22:46 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <2E670176-9DBD-4032-8F78-EE62BF9DCAEF@btinternet.com>
References: <50e947de-dad8-a2f3-0056-3f339280f8e4@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<F7F24FAA-A8F6-4C0F-9825-49859ACACD9C@me.com>
	<CFDCFA1E-FC8F-4B18-B4DC-139F2D3D8895@btinternet.com>
	<2E670176-9DBD-4032-8F78-EE62BF9DCAEF@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <2cebc1dd-d219-99c4-7bda-24ccaf93b750@chriswoolf.co.uk>

The problem with ultra high speed charging is the load on the supply 
while you are doing it. Ramming the better part of 100kW into a battery 
in 10 minutes demands huge currents, and a motorway service station with 
a few 10s of bays is going to need an eye-watering grid feed to cope.

Chris Woolf


On 02/11/2021 09:59, Roger E Long via Tech1 wrote:
> Store Dot hopes to produce Silicone battery chemistry that can be charged in 10 minutes and give a Tesla 3 LR  600miles range
> These will be available in 2024.
>
>
>

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From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Nov  2 05:25:24 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 10:25:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <2E670176-9DBD-4032-8F78-EE62BF9DCAEF@btinternet.com>
References: <2E670176-9DBD-4032-8F78-EE62BF9DCAEF@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <B18C2C74-7F8F-4EBB-A716-CD7F5F3754A1@me.com>

Ten minute vehicle recharges are often talked about in the press.

You?re intelligent people, think about it.  In round figures a 100kWH battery being recharged in ten mins will need 600kW to be transferred into the battery during those ten minutes. If it were a six minute recharge, it would need 1MW. What sort of connector will be needed? How thick will the cable need to be ?  How will the electricity infrastructure cope when half a megawatt of demand suddenly turns on and off just for one vehicle?  It would make the infamous kettle switching on surge during the commercial break in Coronation Street look like a tiny blip. 

I agree that fast charging is desirable and battery, or other power storage technologies might soon allow it, but there are significant practicalities which need to be thought about too. There are possible ways to circumvent or minimise these problems, but they need to be properly developed too before we can benefit from those ten minute recharges in the real world.

Alan Taylor

> On 2 Nov 2021, at 09:59, Roger E Long <relong at btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Store Dot hopes to produce Silicone battery chemistry that can be charged in 10 minutes and give a Tesla 3 LR  600miles range
> These will be available in 2024.
> 
> 


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Tue Nov  2 05:33:31 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 10:33:31 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <F7F24FAA-A8F6-4C0F-9825-49859ACACD9C@me.com>
References: <50e947de-dad8-a2f3-0056-3f339280f8e4@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<F7F24FAA-A8F6-4C0F-9825-49859ACACD9C@me.com>
Message-ID: <01988ba5-7374-bc00-3752-9a141c6e5155@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 01/11/2021 18:55, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>
> ...It?s frightening to see the new builds being thrown up. ...

In Cornwall a lot of them are made using internal framing of what used 
to be called Stirling board - a cheap, composite of glued wood pieces in 
a rough plywood fashion. It is covered with a waterproof membrane (which 
frequently gets damaged and rained on during construction).

If a house built in this way has an internal water leak - plumbing or 
roof damage -there is a strong risk of rot setting in within the 
structural walls. When that happens there is little you can do. You 
probably won't know about the rot until it has gone a long, long way too 
far - and since it is integral to the structure, repairs are likely to 
be drastic and difficult.

Nor can you start doing changes to the rooms - you are pretty well stuck 
with the way it was first built. You can't start joining up reception 
rooms or doing anything in the loft, because there's nothing solid to 
work with - "monocoque" as opposed to "chassis" - a disposable asset.

Chris Woolf


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From davesound at btinternet.com  Tue Nov  2 05:46:25 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 10:46:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <B18C2C74-7F8F-4EBB-A716-CD7F5F3754A1@me.com>
References: <2E670176-9DBD-4032-8F78-EE62BF9DCAEF@btinternet.com>
	<B18C2C74-7F8F-4EBB-A716-CD7F5F3754A1@me.com>
Message-ID: <9ba0d3f4-73e8-ebf6-1bb1-4dd51df0a476@btinternet.com>

How long have we known that electricity is likely the way forward to 
reduce emissions in both buildings and road transport? Many years, I'd say.

The present system relies on diversity. You may well have a 100 amp feed 
to your house - but if everyone in your local area used all of this at 
once, the street cables etc would fail. And we are already close to the 
limit out generators can supply at peak times. Long before every vehicle 
is electric and every house heated by electricity - even with heat pumps.

It wouldn't be impossible to calculate how the electrical infrastructure 
needs to be upgraded at any point in the past few years. And a start on 
that should have been made then. The powers that be seem very good at 
saying things like 'we'll ban all fossil fuelled vehicles and heating by 
20xx', but have zero clue of the implications in practice.

On 02/11/2021 10:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> Ten minute vehicle recharges are often talked about in the press.
>
> You?re intelligent people, think about it.  In round figures a 100kWH battery being recharged in ten mins will need 600kW to be transferred into the battery during those ten minutes. If it were a six minute recharge, it would need 1MW. What sort of connector will be needed? How thick will the cable need to be ?  How will the electricity infrastructure cope when half a megawatt of demand suddenly turns on and off just for one vehicle?  It would make the infamous kettle switching on surge during the commercial break in Coronation Street look like a tiny blip.
>
> I agree that fast charging is desirable and battery, or other power storage technologies might soon allow it, but there are significant practicalities which need to be thought about too. There are possible ways to circumvent or minimise these problems, but they need to be properly developed too before we can benefit from those ten minute recharges in the real world.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>> On 2 Nov 2021, at 09:59, Roger E Long <relong at btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?Store Dot hopes to produce Silicone battery chemistry that can be charged in 10 minutes and give a Tesla 3 LR  600miles range
>> These will be available in 2024.
>>
>>


From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 06:28:38 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 11:28:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <B18C2C74-7F8F-4EBB-A716-CD7F5F3754A1@me.com>
References: <2E670176-9DBD-4032-8F78-EE62BF9DCAEF@btinternet.com>
	<B18C2C74-7F8F-4EBB-A716-CD7F5F3754A1@me.com>
Message-ID: <dca32d8d-a715-40c6-928d-227e29017f5f@gmail.com>

Yes -? in all this hot air there has to be viable practical outcomes.

Did anyone see a reporter berating Boris on the One O'clock News 
yesterday? He was giving him a really hard time about a possible new 
coal mine in Cumbria.? It made me want to rush in and ask the reporter 
how he would solve the problem. Boris waffled, but there really is a 
dilemma. We need coal to make steel, until we have enough electricity or 
hydrogen or whatever to stop.? The coal can come from locally, employing 
lots of people, or we can buy it from Australia, where they are happy to 
dig it out, sell to us, and send a tramp steamer half way round the 
world. "Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack....."
//
Politicians and reporters can talk all they like about fast chargers, 
but as Chris and Alan say, they aren't suggesting digging long fat 
trenches down the high street to run in fat cables supplying the 
electricity.

They'd like there to be magic, supplied by those scientist chappies, but 
they aren't going to get it.

B




On 02/11/2021 10:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> Ten minute vehicle recharges are often talked about in the press.
>
> You?re intelligent people, think about it.  In round figures a 100kWH battery being recharged in ten mins will need 600kW to be transferred into the battery during those ten minutes. If it were a six minute recharge, it would need 1MW. What sort of connector will be needed? How thick will the cable need to be ?  How will the electricity infrastructure cope when half a megawatt of demand suddenly turns on and off just for one vehicle?  It would make the infamous kettle switching on surge during the commercial break in Coronation Street look like a tiny blip.
>
> I agree that fast charging is desirable and battery, or other power storage technologies might soon allow it, but there are significant practicalities which need to be thought about too. There are possible ways to circumvent or minimise these problems, but they need to be properly developed too before we can benefit from those ten minute recharges in the real world.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>> On 2 Nov 2021, at 09:59, Roger E Long<relong at btinternet.com>  wrote:
>>
>> ?Store Dot hopes to produce Silicone battery chemistry that can be charged in 10 minutes and give a Tesla 3 LR  600miles range
>> These will be available in 2024.
>>
>>
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From saranewman at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  2 06:47:51 2021
From: saranewman at hotmail.com (sara newman)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 11:47:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Hi, Help needed
Message-ID: <DB9PR08MB7049FFE09A7DF75066A240C4D08B9@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>


Hi Guys, 

I inadvertently threw out my mains plug for my light box, I just need to know the size  and wonder if you could answer this 

12V 1A power supply - what  tip size (5.5/2.5mm or 5.5/2.1mm) do I need.Thank you Sara 
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Tue Nov  2 06:48:53 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 11:48:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <dca32d8d-a715-40c6-928d-227e29017f5f@gmail.com>
References: <2E670176-9DBD-4032-8F78-EE62BF9DCAEF@btinternet.com>
	<B18C2C74-7F8F-4EBB-A716-CD7F5F3754A1@me.com>
	<dca32d8d-a715-40c6-928d-227e29017f5f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ce7c31c-3159-a4f6-0486-688281795f8b@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 02/11/2021 11:28, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
> .... We need coal to make steel, until we have enough electricity or 
> hydrogen or whatever to stop. ...


But actually that isn't correct. There are already steel plants running 
that use hydrogen in place of coking coal. We need to convert our 
steel-making to that /now/, rather than fix in place carbon-based steel 
machinery for the next two or three decades.

If the initial supply of hydrogen is "blue" that doesn't matter too 
much, because the switch over to "green" can be seamless. But if we 
start feeding coke into the current plant the economic case for keeping 
going on out-dated, carbon intensive gear, will be argued for donkeys' 
years.

The whole point is that we should make the investment in the right 
technology /now/. Heaven knows, this country//is /always/ coming from 
behind and having to catch up.

Practicality is very important but we have to distinguish between the 
fatuous and inaccurate pseudo-economic arguments - every development 
always argues for local employment and almost never delivers - and 
problems that are embedded in simple physics. We /can /make steel now 
without coke: we can't (probably ever) provide service stations with 
multi-MW power feeds.

Chris Woolf



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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Nov  2 07:07:38 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 12:07:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Hi, Help needed
In-Reply-To: <DB9PR08MB7049FFE09A7DF75066A240C4D08B9@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DB9PR08MB7049FFE09A7DF75066A240C4D08B9@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <ccd40c46-cc48-2848-1f53-48b4833611ae@ntlworld.com>

You probably need one of these from Ebay - https://bit.ly/2ZDO3bP

B



On 02/11/2021 11:47, sara newman via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I inadvertently threw out my mains plug for my light box, I just need 
> to know the size ?and wonder if you could answer this
>
> 12V 1A power supply - what ?tip size (5.5/2.5mm or 5.5/2.1mm) do I 
> need.Thank you Sara
>
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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Tue Nov  2 07:12:46 2021
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 12:12:46 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <dca32d8d-a715-40c6-928d-227e29017f5f@gmail.com>
References: <dca32d8d-a715-40c6-928d-227e29017f5f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57ADC8A9-5EC5-4B50-B194-008F25DC49E2@btinternet.com>

Nobody says ?there as just too many people on the planet?. 

I don?t see why anyone should consider the idea of surrendering an old, traditional or existing building and living in an eco pre-fab OSB & polystyrene shoebox to do their bit when those making the rules carry on polluting on a grand scale - HS2 third runway etc etc. 

I should think at least half air travel or car journeys aren?t necessary?.that would help save the planet (but not the economy) - instead we?re told to spend & spend ??? our hard-earned on expensive heat pumps, solar panels, insulation and electric cars! 

?.And that reminds me, I?d forgotten about Chernobyl. 

Steve

Pre fab is the way to go, basically we have to start again, and rebuild our housing stock.
Hydrogen is a dead end, green electricity is the only answer, we must build more nuclear and fast.

> On 2 Nov 2021, at 11:29, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Yes -  in all this hot air there has to be viable practical outcomes.   
> 
> Did anyone see a reporter berating Boris on the One O'clock News yesterday? He was giving him a really hard time about a possible new coal mine in Cumbria.  It made me want to rush in and ask the reporter how he would solve the problem. Boris waffled, but there really is a dilemma. We need coal to make steel, until we have enough electricity or hydrogen or whatever to stop.  The coal can come from locally, employing lots of people, or we can buy it from Australia, where they are happy to dig it out, sell to us, and send a tramp steamer half way round the world. "Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack....."
> 
> Politicians and reporters can talk all they like about fast chargers, but as Chris and Alan say, they aren't suggesting digging long fat trenches down the high street to run in fat cables supplying the electricity. 
> 
> They'd like there to be magic, supplied by those scientist chappies, but they aren't going to get it.
> 
> B 
> 
> 
>      
> 
> On 02/11/2021 10:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> Ten minute vehicle recharges are often talked about in the press.
>> 
>> You?re intelligent people, think about it.  In round figures a 100kWH battery being recharged in ten mins will need 600kW to be transferred into the battery during those ten minutes. If it were a six minute recharge, it would need 1MW. What sort of connector will be needed? How thick will the cable need to be ?  How will the electricity infrastructure cope when half a megawatt of demand suddenly turns on and off just for one vehicle?  It would make the infamous kettle switching on surge during the commercial break in Coronation Street look like a tiny blip. 
>> 
>> I agree that fast charging is desirable and battery, or other power storage technologies might soon allow it, but there are significant practicalities which need to be thought about too. There are possible ways to circumvent or minimise these problems, but they need to be properly developed too before we can benefit from those ten minute recharges in the real world.
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>>> On 2 Nov 2021, at 09:59, Roger E Long <relong at btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Store Dot hopes to produce Silicone battery chemistry that can be charged in 10 minutes and give a Tesla 3 LR  600miles range
>>> These will be available in 2024.
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Nov  2 07:25:57 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 12:25:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <dca32d8d-a715-40c6-928d-227e29017f5f@gmail.com>
References: <dca32d8d-a715-40c6-928d-227e29017f5f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <974C6549-0662-4F43-BF7C-E5B9945BED4E@me.com>

Maybe the British steel industry wasn?t the best example to use.  It?s another industry which has now been thrown under the Brexit bus.  Trump?s US Tarifs on EU steel were lifted by Biden on Sunday as an attempt to avoid importing ?dirty steel?, mainly from China, which uses a lot of carbon in its manufacture. As the UK is no longer part of the EU, it is not part of that deal. The US and EU will now be trading steel and aluminium more freely without the previous 25% ( steel ) or 10% ( aluminium ) tariffs. 

America mainly uses electric-arc furnaces for steel production, while China uses coal powered blast furnaces. The deal is being portrayed  as a way of preserving local jobs and helping the environment. 

Alan Taylor




From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Tue Nov  2 07:33:27 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 12:33:27 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Hi, Help needed
In-Reply-To: <DB9PR08MB7049FFE09A7DF75066A240C4D08B9@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DB9PR08MB7049FFE09A7DF75066A240C4D08B9@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <0729EE97DD5F4E909D7CBAD47BE60B8D@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

The universal item Bernie mentions seems to indicate (amongst the other tip sizes) 5.5/2.5 and 5.0/2.1. I see some other universal offerings include 5.5/2.5 and 5.5/2.1. Caution required methinks as you indicate 5.5 in both the tip sizes you mention.

Dave Newbitt.

From: sara newman via Tech1 
Sent: Tuesday, November 2, 2021 11:47 AM
To: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
Subject: [Tech1] Hi, Help needed


Hi Guys, 


I inadvertently threw out my mains plug for my light box, I just need to know the size  and wonder if you could answer this 


12V 1A power supply - what  tip size (5.5/2.5mm or 5.5/2.1mm) do I need.Thank you Sara 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Tue Nov  2 08:41:38 2021
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 13:41:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Hi, Help needed
In-Reply-To: <ccd40c46-cc48-2848-1f53-48b4833611ae@ntlworld.com>
References: <DB9PR08MB7049FFE09A7DF75066A240C4D08B9@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
	<ccd40c46-cc48-2848-1f53-48b4833611ae@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <97CD1594-9D30-49E4-BCA5-D742FFE730A0@btinternet.com>

or this https://myvolts.co.uk/product/19073/UK_12V_Power_Adaptor_for_the_Cosmic-Master_Tracer-LED-A4_Light-box_by_myVolts?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpe7r9Ob58wIVkNnVCh2AYgqfEAQYASABEgInBfD_BwE <https://myvolts.co.uk/product/19073/UK_12V_Power_Adaptor_for_the_Cosmic-Master_Tracer-LED-A4_Light-box_by_myVolts?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpe7r9Ob58wIVkNnVCh2AYgqfEAQYASABEgInBfD_BwE>

> On 2 Nov 2021, at 12:07, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> You probably need one of these from Ebay - https://bit.ly/2ZDO3bP <https://bit.ly/2ZDO3bP>
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
> On 02/11/2021 11:47, sara newman via Tech1 wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Guys, 
>> 
>> I inadvertently threw out my mains plug for my light box, I just need to know the size  and wonder if you could answer this 
>> 
>> 12V 1A power supply - what  tip size (5.5/2.5mm or 5.5/2.1mm) do I need.Thank you Sara <47E505E5-FC59-43E0-B926-0BB066827705_4_5005_c.jpeg><33029557-F03C-4806-9C00-595103E8AB3E_4_5005_c.jpeg><945E7519-E6D2-437D-8A12-9421F0B74928_4_5005_c.jpeg>
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From saranewman at hotmail.com  Tue Nov  2 11:14:48 2021
From: saranewman at hotmail.com (sara newman)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 16:14:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Light box mains lead.
Message-ID: <DB9PR08MB70498EDDBF8F18B7CBF3CC43D08B9@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>


Hi, 

Thank you for your replies, I would not have asked you unless I had tried in other ways. 

I went on the internet and and even rang the suppliers. They have upgraded the light box since I bought it and have  not old stock and could not help me. I emailed My Volt that Albert suggested twice! and they have not replied as they do send out the plugs for you to try? apparently! 

I am taking Ian up on his kind offer. 

So thank you everyone for replying. 

Take care and stay safe. 

With thanks

Sarax 





From mibridge at mac.com  Tue Nov  2 12:57:27 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (M E GILES)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 17:57:27 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <57ADC8A9-5EC5-4B50-B194-008F25DC49E2@btinternet.com>
References: <dca32d8d-a715-40c6-928d-227e29017f5f@gmail.com>
	<57ADC8A9-5EC5-4B50-B194-008F25DC49E2@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <321A709E-53D6-44BE-A165-87A84517D4DE@mac.com>

It wouldn?t influence the size of the supply cables, but has any thought been given to cordless charging for EVs ~ as per mobile phones, electric toothbrushes and razors? I suppose it would create dangerous levels of radiation for us mere mortals.

Given a 600 mile range, who would need to recharge in ten minutes anyway? That?s further than most of us would want to drive in a day, so charging can still be overnight, whilst we rest in the arms of Morpheus, dreaming of the following day?s driving!

Mike G


> On 2 Nov 2021, at 12:12, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Nobody says ?there as just too many people on the planet?. 
> 
> I don?t see why anyone should consider the idea of surrendering an old, traditional or existing building and living in an eco pre-fab OSB & polystyrene shoebox to do their bit when those making the rules carry on polluting on a grand scale - HS2 third runway etc etc. 
> 
> I should think at least half air travel or car journeys aren?t necessary?.that would help save the planet (but not the economy) - instead we?re told to spend & spend ??? our hard-earned on expensive heat pumps, solar panels, insulation and electric cars! 
> 
> ?.And that reminds me, I?d forgotten about Chernobyl. 
> 
> Steve
> 
> Pre fab is the way to go, basically we have to start again, and rebuild our housing stock.
> Hydrogen is a dead end, green electricity is the only answer, we must build more nuclear and fast.
> 
>> On 2 Nov 2021, at 11:29, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ? Yes -  in all this hot air there has to be viable practical outcomes.   
>> 
>> Did anyone see a reporter berating Boris on the One O'clock News yesterday? He was giving him a really hard time about a possible new coal mine in Cumbria.  It made me want to rush in and ask the reporter how he would solve the problem. Boris waffled, but there really is a dilemma. We need coal to make steel, until we have enough electricity or hydrogen or whatever to stop.  The coal can come from locally, employing lots of people, or we can buy it from Australia, where they are happy to dig it out, sell to us, and send a tramp steamer half way round the world. "Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack....."
>> 
>> Politicians and reporters can talk all they like about fast chargers, but as Chris and Alan say, they aren't suggesting digging long fat trenches down the high street to run in fat cables supplying the electricity. 
>> 
>> They'd like there to be magic, supplied by those scientist chappies, but they aren't going to get it.
>> 
>> B 
>> 
>> 
>>      
>> 
>> On 02/11/2021 10:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Ten minute vehicle recharges are often talked about in the press.
>>> 
>>> You?re intelligent people, think about it.  In round figures a 100kWH battery being recharged in ten mins will need 600kW to be transferred into the battery during those ten minutes. If it were a six minute recharge, it would need 1MW. What sort of connector will be needed? How thick will the cable need to be ?  How will the electricity infrastructure cope when half a megawatt of demand suddenly turns on and off just for one vehicle?  It would make the infamous kettle switching on surge during the commercial break in Coronation Street look like a tiny blip. 
>>> 
>>> I agree that fast charging is desirable and battery, or other power storage technologies might soon allow it, but there are significant practicalities which need to be thought about too. There are possible ways to circumvent or minimise these problems, but they need to be properly developed too before we can benefit from those ten minute recharges in the real world.
>>> 
>>> Alan Taylor
>>> 
>>>> On 2 Nov 2021, at 09:59, Roger E Long <relong at btinternet.com> <mailto:relong at btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?Store Dot hopes to produce Silicone battery chemistry that can be charged in 10 minutes and give a Tesla 3 LR  600miles range
>>>> These will be available in 2024.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From relong at btinternet.com  Tue Nov  2 17:39:11 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 22:39:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <321A709E-53D6-44BE-A165-87A84517D4DE@mac.com>
References: <321A709E-53D6-44BE-A165-87A84517D4DE@mac.com>
Message-ID: <516C5124-6351-4FA3-879D-C4910419E847@btinternet.com>

The discussion I had last week was in Edinburgh with an academic.
No one is going to rip up our housing stock
They will try Hydrogen 
They will try Nuclear 
Car battery and charging will improve
If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
If we leave it politicians ,academics and  zealots we might go back to serfdom.
Who knows 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Nov 2021, at 17:58, M E GILES via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?It wouldn?t influence the size of the supply cables, but has any thought been given to cordless charging for EVs ~ as per mobile phones, electric toothbrushes and razors? I suppose it would create dangerous levels of radiation for us mere mortals.
> 
> Given a 600 mile range, who would need to recharge in ten minutes anyway? That?s further than most of us would want to drive in a day, so charging can still be overnight, whilst we rest in the arms of Morpheus, dreaming of the following day?s driving!
> 
> Mike G
> 
> 
>> On 2 Nov 2021, at 12:12, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Nobody says ?there as just too many people on the planet?. 
>> 
>> I don?t see why anyone should consider the idea of surrendering an old, traditional or existing building and living in an eco pre-fab OSB & polystyrene shoebox to do their bit when those making the rules carry on polluting on a grand scale - HS2 third runway etc etc. 
>> 
>> I should think at least half air travel or car journeys aren?t necessary?.that would help save the planet (but not the economy) - instead we?re told to spend & spend ??? our hard-earned on expensive heat pumps, solar panels, insulation and electric cars! 
>> 
>> ?.And that reminds me, I?d forgotten about Chernobyl. 
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> Pre fab is the way to go, basically we have to start again, and rebuild our housing stock.
>> Hydrogen is a dead end, green electricity is the only answer, we must build more nuclear and fast.
>> 
>>>> On 2 Nov 2021, at 11:29, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ? Yes -  in all this hot air there has to be viable practical outcomes.   
>>> 
>>> Did anyone see a reporter berating Boris on the One O'clock News yesterday? He was giving him a really hard time about a possible new coal mine in Cumbria.  It made me want to rush in and ask the reporter how he would solve the problem. Boris waffled, but there really is a dilemma. We need coal to make steel, until we have enough electricity or hydrogen or whatever to stop.  The coal can come from locally, employing lots of people, or we can buy it from Australia, where they are happy to dig it out, sell to us, and send a tramp steamer half way round the world. "Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack....."
>>> 
>>> Politicians and reporters can talk all they like about fast chargers, but as Chris and Alan say, they aren't suggesting digging long fat trenches down the high street to run in fat cables supplying the electricity. 
>>> 
>>> They'd like there to be magic, supplied by those scientist chappies, but they aren't going to get it.
>>> 
>>> B 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>      
>>> 
>>> On 02/11/2021 10:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> Ten minute vehicle recharges are often talked about in the press.
>>>> 
>>>> You?re intelligent people, think about it.  In round figures a 100kWH battery being recharged in ten mins will need 600kW to be transferred into the battery during those ten minutes. If it were a six minute recharge, it would need 1MW. What sort of connector will be needed? How thick will the cable need to be ?  How will the electricity infrastructure cope when half a megawatt of demand suddenly turns on and off just for one vehicle?  It would make the infamous kettle switching on surge during the commercial break in Coronation Street look like a tiny blip. 
>>>> 
>>>> I agree that fast charging is desirable and battery, or other power storage technologies might soon allow it, but there are significant practicalities which need to be thought about too. There are possible ways to circumvent or minimise these problems, but they need to be properly developed too before we can benefit from those ten minute recharges in the real world.
>>>> 
>>>> Alan Taylor
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2 Nov 2021, at 09:59, Roger E Long <relong at btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?Store Dot hopes to produce Silicone battery chemistry that can be charged in 10 minutes and give a Tesla 3 LR  600miles range
>>>>> These will be available in 2024.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From relong at btinternet.com  Tue Nov  2 17:59:32 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2021 22:59:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?q?Fwd=3A___We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_f?=
 =?utf-8?q?or_heat_pump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
References: <516C5124-6351-4FA3-879D-C4910419E847@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <2A7785E4-89A1-44DB-A164-8BB83792E5B2@btinternet.com>



Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Roger Long <relong at btinternet.com>
> 
> ?The discussion I had last week was in Edinburgh with an academic.
> No one is going to rip up our housing stock
> They will try Hydrogen 
> They will try Nuclear 
> Car battery and charging will improve
> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
> If we leave it politicians ,academics and  zealots we might go back to serfdom.
> Who knows 
> 
> 
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Wed Nov  3 04:51:05 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 09:51:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <516C5124-6351-4FA3-879D-C4910419E847@btinternet.com>
References: <321A709E-53D6-44BE-A165-87A84517D4DE@mac.com>
	<516C5124-6351-4FA3-879D-C4910419E847@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <72edb046-539e-0220-e40a-dfb26aab5550@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
> ...
> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second 
> industrial revolution
> .....

Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the 
current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to 
worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has 
polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is 
in question.

Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the 
disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto 
future governments.


Chris Woolf



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From bernie833 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 06:38:02 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 11:38:02 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <72edb046-539e-0220-e40a-dfb26aab5550@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <321A709E-53D6-44BE-A165-87A84517D4DE@mac.com>
	<516C5124-6351-4FA3-879D-C4910419E847@btinternet.com>
	<72edb046-539e-0220-e40a-dfb26aab5550@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ee5addeb-d6aa-6cb5-0254-96b78f3dd18d@gmail.com>

I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to 
power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, 
says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a 
field just isn't going to happen.

Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is 
changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the 
destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or 
SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or 
motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably 
lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible 
solution.

B





On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>
> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>> ...
>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second 
>> industrial revolution
>> .....
>
> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into 
> the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without 
> having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is 
> what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where 
> survivability is in question.
>
> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the 
> disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto 
> future governments.
>
>
> Chris Woolf
>
>
>
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From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Nov  3 07:08:16 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 12:08:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <ee5addeb-d6aa-6cb5-0254-96b78f3dd18d@gmail.com>
References: <ee5addeb-d6aa-6cb5-0254-96b78f3dd18d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <314BD9B5-65B4-4AF2-9CAA-41395C82A17B@me.com>

If you are going to operate heavy plant by hydrogen, I would have thought that a fuel cell poweing electric motors would be a much better solution in the longer run.  The high torque at low speed capability of electric motors would really come into their own for those machines and of course they don?t waste electricity when idling. 

Building ICE powered hydrogen vehicles comes across as a way of prolonging the status quo rather than being the way of the future. Obviously it?s better than using fossil fuels, but it?s not the real solution.

Does anybody know about the overall efficiency of turning electricity into hydrogen, turning that hydrogen into ammonia and finally converting the ammonia into hydrogen? Ammonia is NH3, so I assume that the process borrows nitrogen from the air and then gives it back later, but how much energy is used for the whole cycle? As far as I can see, it is proposed to use green electricity at each stage, so any inefficiency can be disregarded as it?s all green energy, but there must come a point when that green energy might be used more productively.

Another hope for the future of green energy, fusion power, has famously been described as being twenty five years away for the last fifty years.  Recent developments in superconductive materials for magnets have resulted in magnets being built which are massively stronger than previously possible.  Such magnets are the key to containing materials at the ultra high temperatures needed for fusion reaction and other developments in other aspects are looking promising too. While I don?t expect fusion power to be available at scale within my lifetime, I do think that there is a fair chance of fusion power being successfully demonstrated before I start pushing up daisies and that my children will use fusion power.

Alan Taylor

> On 3 Nov 2021, at 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.   
> 
> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>> 
>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote: 
>>> ... 
>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
>>> ..... 
>> 
>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question. 
>> 
>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments. 
>> 
>> 
>> Chris Woolf 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 07:15:37 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 12:15:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <314BD9B5-65B4-4AF2-9CAA-41395C82A17B@me.com>
References: <ee5addeb-d6aa-6cb5-0254-96b78f3dd18d@gmail.com>
	<314BD9B5-65B4-4AF2-9CAA-41395C82A17B@me.com>
Message-ID: <7eee5111-f909-316f-d50a-42e929806313@ntlworld.com>

Fusion power is the holy grail in all this, but it doesn't get the 
combine harvester going again in the middle of the field.

I know nothing about this stuff apart from what I've read here - 
https://www.jcb.com/en-gb/campaigns/hydrogen

B



On 03/11/2021 12:08, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> If you are going to operate heavy plant by hydrogen, I would have 
> thought that a fuel cell poweing electric motors would be a much 
> better solution in the longer run. ?The high torque at low speed 
> capability of electric motors would really come into their own for 
> those machines and of course they don?t waste electricity when idling.
>
> Building ICE powered hydrogen vehicles comes across as a way of 
> prolonging the status quo rather than being the way of the future. 
> Obviously it?s better than using fossil fuels, but it?s not the real 
> solution.
>
> Does anybody know about the overall efficiency of turning electricity 
> into hydrogen, turning that hydrogen into ammonia and finally 
> converting the ammonia into hydrogen? Ammonia is NH3, so I assume that 
> the process borrows nitrogen from the air and then gives it back 
> later, but how much energy is used for the whole cycle? As far as I 
> can see, it is proposed to use green electricity at each stage, so any 
> inefficiency can be disregarded as it?s all green energy, but there 
> must come a point when that green energy might be used more productively.
>
> Another hope for the future of green energy, fusion power, has 
> famously been described as being twenty five years away for the last 
> fifty years. ?Recent developments in superconductive materials for 
> magnets have resulted in magnets being built which are massively 
> stronger than previously possible. ?Such magnets are the key to 
> containing materials at the ultra high temperatures needed for fusion 
> reaction and other developments in other aspects are looking promising 
> too. While I don?t expect fusion power to be available at scale within 
> my lifetime, I do think that there is a fair chance of fusion power 
> being successfully demonstrated before I start pushing up daisies and 
> that my children will use fusion power.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ? I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen 
>> engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, 
>> Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine 
>> in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.
>>
>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is 
>> changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the 
>> destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm 
>> or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm 
>> or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and 
>> presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a 
>> sensible solution.
>>
>> B
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>
>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second 
>>>> industrial revolution
>>>> .....
>>>
>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into 
>>> the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without 
>>> having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is 
>>> what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where 
>>> survivability is in question.
>>>
>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost 
>>> the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off 
>>> onto future governments.
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris Woolf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Nov  3 07:50:39 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 12:50:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <7eee5111-f909-316f-d50a-42e929806313@ntlworld.com>
References: <ee5addeb-d6aa-6cb5-0254-96b78f3dd18d@gmail.com>
	<314BD9B5-65B4-4AF2-9CAA-41395C82A17B@me.com>
	<7eee5111-f909-316f-d50a-42e929806313@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <6182859e.1c69fb81.d1b38.a3b8@mx.google.com>

This is Pat, being stupidly fanciful a la Mike Bentine...
Picture a JCB, filled with Hydrogen ? must be capable of floating above ground with the backhoe digging in to hold it down!
But...remember the Hindenburg!

Being brought up in a seaside town, there was always a stall supplying helium filled balloons. I would buy one, and stretch my mum?s hairnet over the top, and with thread, fastening a matchbox tray underneath, then loading the tray with buttons until the thing was stationary in the stairwell, negative buoyancy in air. Taking one or two load buttons out would allow the balloon to rise. Pelting upstairs, a few more buttons added would cause a slow descent. Hours of fun, and good exercise running up and down stairs!

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 03 November 2021 12:15
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Cc: Bernard Newnham
Subject: Re: [Tech1]We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online

Fusion power is the holy grail in all this, but it doesn't get the combine harvester going again in the middle of the field.?? 

I know nothing about this stuff apart from what I've read here - https://www.jcb.com/en-gb/campaigns/hydrogen

B





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From davesound at btinternet.com  Wed Nov  3 08:08:32 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 13:08:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <7eee5111-f909-316f-d50a-42e929806313@ntlworld.com>
References: <ee5addeb-d6aa-6cb5-0254-96b78f3dd18d@gmail.com>
	<314BD9B5-65B4-4AF2-9CAA-41395C82A17B@me.com>
	<7eee5111-f909-316f-d50a-42e929806313@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <18da14db-5947-4095-6040-5bf44bb725c3@btinternet.com>

That article is not strictly accurate. Burning hydrogen in air also 
produces NOx. Just how much compared to a similar petrol engine with 
catalytic convertors, I'm not sure. Basically, there are two problems. 
Overall CO2 as regards climate change. Pollutants produced in use - the 
reason for the ULEZ in London. And that ULEZ does nothing to address CO2 
production from vehicles. As a large engine by nature produces more CO2 
than a small one. Yet plenty small engines are banned from the ULEZ, 
while larger ones not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel

On 03/11/2021 12:15, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
> Fusion power is the holy grail in all this, but it doesn't get the 
> combine harvester going again in the middle of the field.
>
> I know nothing about this stuff apart from what I've read here - 
> https://www.jcb.com/en-gb/campaigns/hydrogen
>
> B
>
>
>
> On 03/11/2021 12:08, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> If you are going to operate heavy plant by hydrogen, I would have 
>> thought that a fuel cell poweing electric motors would be a much 
>> better solution in the longer run. ?The high torque at low speed 
>> capability of electric motors would really come into their own for 
>> those machines and of course they don?t waste electricity when idling.
>>
>> Building ICE powered hydrogen vehicles comes across as a way of 
>> prolonging the status quo rather than being the way of the future. 
>> Obviously it?s better than using fossil fuels, but it?s not the real 
>> solution.
>>
>> Does anybody know about the overall efficiency of turning electricity 
>> into hydrogen, turning that hydrogen into ammonia and finally 
>> converting the ammonia into hydrogen? Ammonia is NH3, so I assume 
>> that the process borrows nitrogen from the air and then gives it back 
>> later, but how much energy is used for the whole cycle? As far as I 
>> can see, it is proposed to use green electricity at each stage, so 
>> any inefficiency can be disregarded as it?s all green energy, but 
>> there must come a point when that green energy might be used more 
>> productively.
>>
>> Another hope for the future of green energy, fusion power, has 
>> famously been described as being twenty five years away for the last 
>> fifty years. ?Recent developments in superconductive materials for 
>> magnets have resulted in magnets being built which are massively 
>> stronger than previously possible. ?Such magnets are the key to 
>> containing materials at the ultra high temperatures needed for fusion 
>> reaction and other developments in other aspects are looking 
>> promising too. While I don?t expect fusion power to be available at 
>> scale within my lifetime, I do think that there is a fair chance of 
>> fusion power being successfully demonstrated before I start pushing 
>> up daisies and that my children will use fusion power.
>>
>> Alan Taylor
>>
>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen 
>>> engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, 
>>> Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine 
>>> in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.
>>>
>>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on 
>>> is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at 
>>> the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind 
>>> farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the 
>>> farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and 
>>> presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's 
>>> a sensible solution.
>>>
>>> B
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second 
>>>>> industrial revolution
>>>>> .....
>>>>
>>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into 
>>>> the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without 
>>>> having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is 
>>>> what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where 
>>>> survivability is in question.
>>>>
>>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost 
>>>> the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that 
>>>> off onto future governments.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>
>
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Wed Nov  3 09:18:14 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 14:18:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <ee5addeb-d6aa-6cb5-0254-96b78f3dd18d@gmail.com>
References: <321A709E-53D6-44BE-A165-87A84517D4DE@mac.com>
	<516C5124-6351-4FA3-879D-C4910419E847@btinternet.com>
	<72edb046-539e-0220-e40a-dfb26aab5550@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<ee5addeb-d6aa-6cb5-0254-96b78f3dd18d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3fd20616-8c31-b5aa-9190-d735364a636e@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. 
The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work 
well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.

The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they 
could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough 
for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC 
engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down 
takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a 
portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient 
(when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is 
likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high 
pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more 
difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.

Chris Woolf


On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine 
> to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony 
> Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the 
> middle of a field just isn't going to happen.
>
> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is 
> changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the 
> destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm 
> or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or 
> motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably 
> lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible 
> solution.
>
> B
>
>
>
>
>
> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>
>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>>> ...
>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second 
>>> industrial revolution
>>> .....
>>
>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into 
>> the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without 
>> having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is 
>> what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where 
>> survivability is in question.
>>
>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost 
>> the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off 
>> onto future governments.
>>
>>
>> Chris Woolf
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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From doug at puddifoot.me  Wed Nov  3 11:08:40 2021
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 16:08:40 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
	=?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
	=?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <314BD9B5-65B4-4AF2-9CAA-41395C82A17B@me.com>
References: <ee5addeb-d6aa-6cb5-0254-96b78f3dd18d@gmail.com>
	<314BD9B5-65B4-4AF2-9CAA-41395C82A17B@me.com>
Message-ID: <FAA1F6B2D44A47DEAAB4F5312E67EC1E@NewOffice>

This is interesting regarding the latest developments in magnets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KEwkWjADEA

Doug

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 
Sent: Wednesday, November 3, 2021 12:08 PM
To: tech1 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online

If you are going to operate heavy plant by hydrogen, I would have thought that a fuel cell poweing electric motors would be a much better solution in the longer run.  The high torque at low speed capability of electric motors would really come into their own for those machines and of course they don?t waste electricity when idling. 

Building ICE powered hydrogen vehicles comes across as a way of prolonging the status quo rather than being the way of the future. Obviously it?s better than using fossil fuels, but it?s not the real solution.

Does anybody know about the overall efficiency of turning electricity into hydrogen, turning that hydrogen into ammonia and finally converting the ammonia into hydrogen? Ammonia is NH3, so I assume that the process borrows nitrogen from the air and then gives it back later, but how much energy is used for the whole cycle? As far as I can see, it is proposed to use green electricity at each stage, so any inefficiency can be disregarded as it?s all green energy, but there must come a point when that green energy might be used more productively.

Another hope for the future of green energy, fusion power, has famously been described as being twenty five years away for the last fifty years.  Recent developments in superconductive materials for magnets have resulted in magnets being built which are massively stronger than previously possible.  Such magnets are the key to containing materials at the ultra high temperatures needed for fusion reaction and other developments in other aspects are looking promising too. While I don?t expect fusion power to be available at scale within my lifetime, I do think that there is a fair chance of fusion power being successfully demonstrated before I start pushing up daisies and that my children will use fusion power.

Alan Taylor

 

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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 11:33:49 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 16:33:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <3fd20616-8c31-b5aa-9190-d735364a636e@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <3fd20616-8c31-b5aa-9190-d735364a636e@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <924D389A-DE0F-432D-98D8-973CC9B33462@gmail.com>

The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of the  needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.
The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.
It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
Geoff



Geoff
> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
> 
> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> 
> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.   
>> 
>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
>> 
>> B
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote: 
>>>> ... 
>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
>>>> ..... 
>>> 
>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question. 
>>> 
>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Chris Woolf 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Wed Nov  3 12:09:57 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 17:09:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
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	<924D389A-DE0F-432D-98D8-973CC9B33462@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <05b8ef04-bffd-843a-ba05-6590de06fbb9@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 03/11/2021 16:33, Geoffrey Hawkes wrote:
> The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a 
> pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me....

In practice the strength of a cylinder needed to hold hydrogen under 
pressure makes it a lot less fragile than a thin steel petrol tank. And 
being light the gas would dissipate pretty quickly. It is probably the 
thought of the danger that is scarier than the actuality.

> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very 
> efficient ... 

Ah, but it is done industrially on a huge scale - the Haber Process - to 
produce fertilizer. It is an exothermic reaction under high pressure, 
with a catalytic bed. It has been used for a century, so it is pretty 
well understood now.

.... sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong 
direction? ....

There I have to agree completely. Many of these ideas sound feasible but 
have marked drawbacks ecologically if not economically. That is why 
benign governments need to step in an guide for the good of mankind, 
rather than the self-interest of commerce. Sadly - as indeed evidenced 
by HS2 - we haven't had a benign government for some while.


> Chris Woolf
>


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Nov  3 12:27:30 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 17:27:30 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
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References: <924D389A-DE0F-432D-98D8-973CC9B33462@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8F871E8A-DD99-4DF0-8DEB-4F98DCF69F29@me.com>

I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being mentioned as a viable option ).  The prospect of hydrogen creating a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on top.  Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon flame. 

Alan Taylor



> On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of the  needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.
> The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.
> It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
> Geoff
> 
> 
> 
> Geoff
>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
>> 
>> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.
>> 
>> Chris Woolf
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.   
>>> 
>>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
>>> 
>>> B
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
>>> 
>>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote: 
>>>>> ... 
>>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
>>>>> ..... 
>>>> 
>>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question. 
>>>> 
>>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments. 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Woolf 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From waresound at msn.com  Wed Nov  3 12:47:15 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 17:47:15 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
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In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB19818C7D71296EB7A46E08DDA78C9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <924D389A-DE0F-432D-98D8-973CC9B33462@gmail.com>
	<8F871E8A-DD99-4DF0-8DEB-4F98DCF69F29@me.com>
	<PAXP191MB19818C7D71296EB7A46E08DDA78C9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981F709612165954E97D296A78C9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Oops, that was meant for the discussion, not just Alan.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 3 Nov 2021, at 17:45, Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com> wrote:

? Don?t forget that most of the lasting part of the Hindenburg burn was the fabric of the craft itself. The burning of the flammable gas contained in it was probably near instantaneous.
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 3 Nov 2021, at 17:28, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being mentioned as a viable option ).  The prospect of hydrogen creating a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on top.  Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon flame.

Alan Taylor



On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of the  needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.
The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.
It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
Geoff



Geoff
On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.

The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.

Chris Woolf


On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.

Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.

B





On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:

On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
...
If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution
.....

Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question.

Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments.


Chris Woolf







[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>      Virus-free. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
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From techtone at protonmail.com  Wed Nov  3 15:47:19 2021
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2021 20:47:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
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	<8F871E8A-DD99-4DF0-8DEB-4F98DCF69F29@me.com>
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Going back about 50 years, I remember an article I read which was answering questions raised about nuclear power stations being built, and how safe the technology was, etc. etc. (you've heard all that before) but what struck me was that they went on to say that the only reason nuclear power plants were being built with plutonium as a fuel was that the much safer use of thorium would need starting from scratch, since it had no use as weapon material, and all previous research and development had been in the field of military/offensive usage, and thus the subsequent use of nuclear technology was built on the bomb.

So, I've subsequently read how nuclear fission is the 'holy grail' but the temperature generated is the same as the sun's surface, how can that be contained/controlled? It leaves poor mortals like myself yelling from the sidelines, why wasn't thorium developed all those years ago, similarly what about the tidal energy that's been talked about since the turn of the century?

Doubt there'll be any answers from COP-OUT 26, let's just do the ostrich and put our heads back in the sand. (Pessimistic? Moi? You bet your sweet bippy).

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.

??????? Original Message ???????
On Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021 at 17:27, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being mentioned as a viable option ). The prospect of hydrogen creating a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on top. Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon flame.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> ?The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
>> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of the needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.
>> The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.
>> It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
>> Geoff
>>
>> Geoff
>>
>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
>>>
>>> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.
>>>
>>> Chris Woolf
>>>
>>> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.
>>>>
>>>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
>>>>
>>>> B
>>>>
>>>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution
>>>>>> .....
>>>>>
>>>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>
>>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient	Virus-free. [www.avast.com](https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient)#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2 --
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From mibridge at mac.com  Wed Nov  3 19:00:29 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (M E GILES)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 00:00:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
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	<8F871E8A-DD99-4DF0-8DEB-4F98DCF69F29@me.com>
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Message-ID: <851AF3C1-C87F-4D01-BF63-BC9C4EB6B0D1@mac.com>

I believe the current thinking is that hydrogen tanks for vehicles would be filled with what amount to rigid sponges, rather than empty spaces, but I can?t remember what material was mentioned as providing the absorbent structure. 

I must pat more attention.  I must pay more attention.  I must pay more attention.  I must pay more attention.  I must pay more attention???????????..

I don?t think that schools dish out lines as punishment  nowadays ~ all activity, even in detention, should be constructive. (I do agree with that philosophy, btw.)

Mike G

> On 3 Nov 2021, at 20:47, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Going back about 50 years, I remember an article I read which was answering questions raised about nuclear power stations being built, and how safe the technology was, etc. etc. (you've heard all that before) but what struck me was that they went on to say that the only reason nuclear power plants were being built with plutonium as a fuel was that the much safer use of thorium would need starting from scratch, since it had no use as weapon material, and all previous research and development had been in the field of military/offensive usage, and thus the subsequent use of nuclear technology was built on the bomb.
> 
> So, I've subsequently read how nuclear fission is the 'holy grail' but the temperature generated is the same as the sun's surface, how can that be contained/controlled? It leaves poor mortals like myself yelling from the sidelines, why wasn't thorium developed all those years ago, similarly what about the tidal energy that's been talked about since the turn of the century?
> 
> Doubt there'll be any answers from COP-OUT 26, let's just do the ostrich and put our heads back in the sand. (Pessimistic? Moi? You bet your sweet bippy).
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
> 
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021 at 17:27, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being mentioned as a viable option ).  The prospect of hydrogen creating a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on top.  Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon flame. 
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
>>> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of the  needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.
>>> The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.
>>> It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
>>> Geoff
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Geoff
>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
>>>> 
>>>> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.   
>>>>> 
>>>>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
>>>>> 
>>>>> B
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>   
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote: 
>>>>>>> ... 
>>>>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
>>>>>>> ..... 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris Woolf 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>	Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> <x-msg://37/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>-- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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> 
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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Nov  4 03:22:27 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 08:22:27 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <851AF3C1-C87F-4D01-BF63-BC9C4EB6B0D1@mac.com>
References: <851AF3C1-C87F-4D01-BF63-BC9C4EB6B0D1@mac.com>
Message-ID: <0CC4516C-B023-4076-B736-15F48B25D78B@me.com>

When I wrote about hydrogen flames burning above an accident, I originally included a paragraph mentioning that it was proposed that vehicle hydrogen tanks would contain an absorbent catalyst which only allowed controlled release at a limited rate in the event of the tank being ruptured.  However I deleted that paragraph as I wasn?t sure if I was remembering correctly.  It looks like we were thinking about the same concept.

The other reason why I was doubtful about it was that if the hydrogen can?t escape rapidly,,does the filling limit the speed at which the tank can be refilled?  One often touted advantage of hydrogen over electrical batteries is that hydrogen tanks can be refilled about as quickly as petrol or diesel tanks.

Alan Taylor


> On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:01, M E GILES via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I believe the current thinking is that hydrogen tanks for vehicles would be filled with what amount to rigid sponges, rather than empty spaces, but I can?t remember what material was mentioned as providing the absorbent structure. 
> 
> I must pat more attention.  I must pay more attention.  I must pay more attention.  I must pay more attention.  I must pay more attention???????????..
> 
> I don?t think that schools dish out lines as punishment  nowadays ~ all activity, even in detention, should be constructive. (I do agree with that philosophy, btw.)
> 
> Mike G
> 
>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 20:47, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Going back about 50 years, I remember an article I read which was answering questions raised about nuclear power stations being built, and how safe the technology was, etc. etc. (you've heard all that before) but what struck me was that they went on to say that the only reason nuclear power plants were being built with plutonium as a fuel was that the much safer use of thorium would need starting from scratch, since it had no use as weapon material, and all previous research and development had been in the field of military/offensive usage, and thus the subsequent use of nuclear technology was built on the bomb.
>> 
>> So, I've subsequently read how nuclear fission is the 'holy grail' but the temperature generated is the same as the sun's surface, how can that be contained/controlled? It leaves poor mortals like myself yelling from the sidelines, why wasn't thorium developed all those years ago, similarly what about the tidal energy that's been talked about since the turn of the century?
>> 
>> Doubt there'll be any answers from COP-OUT 26, let's just do the ostrich and put our heads back in the sand. (Pessimistic? Moi? You bet your sweet bippy).
>> 
>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>> 
>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>> 
>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>> On Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021 at 17:27, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being mentioned as a viable option ).  The prospect of hydrogen creating a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on top.  Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon flame. 
>>> 
>>> Alan Taylor
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
>>>> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of the  needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.
>>>> The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.
>>>> It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
>>>> Geoff
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Geoff
>>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?
>>>>> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.   
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> B
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote: 
>>>>>>>> ... 
>>>>>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
>>>>>>>> ..... 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Chris Woolf 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
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From waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov  4 03:38:32 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 08:38:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981F4C30BC1470B9F1D626BA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

?
On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:01, M E GILES via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
I don?t think that schools dish out lines as punishment  nowadays ~ all activity, even in detention, should be constructive. (I do agree with that philosophy, btw.)

Mike G

Ah yes, detention and lines!
My most memorable was on an occasion when our whole ?house? of around thirty boys were being interrogated because someone had left a toilet seat down. No-one owned up to this cardinal crime, so we were all made to spend the evening prep period writing the following out 100 times:
?Mr Tarbat happened to mean what he said about seats left down after you use the lavatory?.
In my handrwiting the line break came after the word ?the?.
It gave me great amusement to write
Mr Tarbat?.
lavatory.
(In ink, the rest of the line in pencil)
When hauled out in front of the other boys I tried to explain that my pen ran out.
?What, a hundred times, boy? Bend over and touch your toes?
That got me four whacks on the bare bottom by his bare hand. Pervert: that could earn him a jail sentence nowadays!

As it happens, leaving the seat up was a good rule, because boys being boys, if left down it would just get peed on by the next person.
Plus ca change?..!
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5


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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Thu Nov  4 04:09:08 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 09:09:08 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
	=?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
	=?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981F4C30BC1470B9F1D626BA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
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Message-ID: <79DC5E67735247778EA3BC206E70E680@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

At my school lines didn?t take the form of ? I must not.......? repeated x times. Oh no, they had to be written out in Latin.

Any lad issued lines by a master (always in multiples of 20) would have to go to his housemaster, relate the circumstances and request issue of the requisite number of pages of ?Line paper?. This was double sided, 20 rows per side and lined horizontally with three lines for each row of text. Lower case letters had to touch the bottom and middle lines, upper case the bottom and top lines. The words could be anything copied in Latin from a text book. This was a pretty laborious process, both the copying and the requirement to keep to the lines. If after handing in your lines they were deemed below par you would have to do them again.

Imagine the courage then of the lad who inserted somewhere in the boring Latin prose the decidedly English ?Jumbo is a c...?, Jumbo being the nickname of the master in question (who was actually a thoroughly decent guy). The gamble was whether the master would laboriously read through every written word. He got away with it!

Dave Newbitt.


From: Nick Ware via Tech1 
Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 8:38 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online

? 
  On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:01, M E GILES via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

  I don?t think that schools dish out lines as punishment  nowadays ~ all activity, even in detention, should be constructive. (I do agree with that philosophy, btw.)


  Mike G

Ah yes, detention and lines! 
My most memorable was on an occasion when our whole ?house? of around thirty boys were being interrogated because someone had left a toilet seat down. No-one owned up to this cardinal crime, so we were all made to spend the evening prep period writing the following out 100 times:
?Mr Tarbat happened to mean what he said about seats left down after you use the lavatory?.
In my handrwiting the line break came after the word ?the?.
It gave me great amusement to write
Mr Tarbat?.
lavatory.
(In ink, the rest of the line in pencil)
When hauled out in front of the other boys I tried to explain that my pen ran out.
?What, a hundred times, boy? Bend over and touch your toes?
That got me four whacks on the bare bottom by his bare hand. Pervert: that could earn him a jail sentence nowadays!

As it happens, leaving the seat up was a good rule, because boys being boys, if left down it would just get peed on by the next person.
Plus ca change?..!
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Thu Nov  4 04:33:21 2021
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 09:33:21 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
	=?utf-8?q?=28off_topic=29___We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in?=
	=?utf-8?q?_grants_for_heat_pump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING?=
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981F4C30BC1470B9F1D626BA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAXP191MB1981F4C30BC1470B9F1D626BA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <55C386266EFB43DDABBFCED99F58A480@Gigabyte>

Not sure if this is becoming a ?memories? page but I can concur with Nick about lavatory punishments!
Our boarding house had a small row of urinals interconnected by a copper pipe above and in between for flushing.
I am always reminded of that when visiting a loo down the dangerous stairs in the excellent Cross Keys in Endell Street Covent Garden full of lovely old bits (not the customers) with old copies of Beatles and records above the bar and original copper pans hanging everywhere amongst old pictures https://www.instagram.com/cross.keys.wc2/?hl=en-gb
Anyway, being young lads, there was competition to see who could make his ?leavings? arise high enough to hit this pipe.
Success meant growths of mould on the aforementioned pipe resulting in the house master promising punishment to the ?winner? unless it was cleaned off.
Occasional rear painful body stick mistreatment from senior boys or staff resulted in putting a brave face on it upon return to the other boys.
Ah happy days!

Mike J


? 
  On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:01, M E GILES via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

  I don?t think that schools dish out lines as punishment  nowadays ~ all activity, even in detention, should be constructive. (I do agree with that philosophy, btw.)


  Mike G

Ah yes, detention and lines! 
My most memorable was on an occasion when our whole ?house? of around thirty boys were being interrogated because someone had left a toilet seat down. No-one owned up to this cardinal crime, so we were all made to spend the evening prep period writing the following out 100 times:
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
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From relong at btinternet.com  Thu Nov  4 04:45:46 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 09:45:46 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <0CC4516C-B023-4076-B736-15F48B25D78B@me.com>
References: <0CC4516C-B023-4076-B736-15F48B25D78B@me.com>
Message-ID: <D5C305E2-7C16-4E75-9FFD-6BA694C89761@btinternet.com>

University of Texas developed an aluminium sponge tank for H
It can hold at lower pressures than a tank
1gm has the equivalent of a football pitch?..

Sent from my iPhone

> On 4 Nov 2021, at 08:23, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> When I wrote about hydrogen flames burning above an accident, I originally included a paragraph mentioning that it was proposed that vehicle hydrogen tanks would contain an absorbent catalyst which only allowed controlled release at a limited rate in the event of the tank being ruptured.  However I deleted that paragraph as I wasn?t sure if I was remembering correctly.  It looks like we were thinking about the same concept.
> 
> The other reason why I was doubtful about it was that if the hydrogen can?t escape rapidly,,does the filling limit the speed at which the tank can be refilled?  One often touted advantage of hydrogen over electrical batteries is that hydrogen tanks can be refilled about as quickly as petrol or diesel tanks.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
>>> On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:01, M E GILES via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?I believe the current thinking is that hydrogen tanks for vehicles would be filled with what amount to rigid sponges, rather than empty spaces, but I can?t remember what material was mentioned as providing the absorbent structure. 
>> 
>> I must pat more attention.  I must pay more attention.  I must pay more attention.  I must pay more attention.  I must pay more attention???????????..
>> 
>> I don?t think that schools dish out lines as punishment  nowadays ~ all activity, even in detention, should be constructive. (I do agree with that philosophy, btw.)
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 20:47, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Going back about 50 years, I remember an article I read which was answering questions raised about nuclear power stations being built, and how safe the technology was, etc. etc. (you've heard all that before) but what struck me was that they went on to say that the only reason nuclear power plants were being built with plutonium as a fuel was that the much safer use of thorium would need starting from scratch, since it had no use as weapon material, and all previous research and development had been in the field of military/offensive usage, and thus the subsequent use of nuclear technology was built on the bomb.
>>> 
>>> So, I've subsequently read how nuclear fission is the 'holy grail' but the temperature generated is the same as the sun's surface, how can that be contained/controlled? It leaves poor mortals like myself yelling from the sidelines, why wasn't thorium developed all those years ago, similarly what about the tidal energy that's been talked about since the turn of the century?
>>> 
>>> Doubt there'll be any answers from COP-OUT 26, let's just do the ostrich and put our heads back in the sand. (Pessimistic? Moi? You bet your sweet bippy).
>>> 
>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>> 
>>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>>> 
>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>> On Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021 at 17:27, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being mentioned as a viable option ).  The prospect of hydrogen creating a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on top.  Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon flame. 
>>>> 
>>>> Alan Taylor
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>> ?The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
>>>>> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of the  needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.
>>>>> The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.
>>>>> It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
>>>>> Geoff
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.   
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> B
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote: 
>>>>>>>>> ... 
>>>>>>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
>>>>>>>>> ..... 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments. 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Chris Woolf 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov  4 04:56:33 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 09:56:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?Lines_was=3A_=27We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_g?=
 =?utf-8?q?rants=27?=
In-Reply-To: <79DC5E67735247778EA3BC206E70E680@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <PAXP191MB1981F4C30BC1470B9F1D626BA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<79DC5E67735247778EA3BC206E70E680@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <6183ae50.1c69fb81.52438.d241@mx.google.com>

Nick and Dave?s experiences were very similar to my school. There, the lined stationery was known as ?a blue paper? for it was that colour and issued by one?s housemaster. I was ?awarded? one for talking in class. Housemaster wanted to know what I was chattering about. It concerned electronic circuits, so I was set to copy out a circuit diagram from a radio magazine. This took far longer than writing lines, but it fixed it in my mind, so the punishment was constructive.
Nick?s tale of toilet seats reminds me of a cameraman that we both used to work with. His downstairs loo had a card on the wall which read: ?If you sprinkle when you tinkle ? please be sweet and wipe the seat!?.
I got the cane a couple of times at boarding prep school. Yes, it hurt, but was quickly over and it made one calculate the chances of being caught rather more accurately! The worst thing was if the known punishment was deliberately delayed for a few days, as it preyed on the mind. After that, I think that we would have been able to survive Gestapo psychological torture!

Pat 

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: David Newbitt via Tech1
Sent: 04 November 2021 09:09
To: Nick Ware; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
Subject: Re: [Tech1]We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online

At my school lines didn?t take the form of ? I must not.......? repeated x times. Oh no, they had to be written out in Latin.
?
Any lad issued lines by a master (always in multiples of 20) would have to go to his housemaster, relate the circumstances and request issue of the requisite number of pages of ?Line paper?. This was double sided, 20 rows per side and lined horizontally with three lines for each row of text. Lower case letters had to touch the bottom and middle lines, upper case the bottom and top lines. The words could be anything copied in Latin from a text book. This was a pretty laborious process, both the copying and the requirement to keep to the lines. If after handing in your lines they were deemed below par you would have to do them again.
?
Imagine the courage then of the lad who inserted somewhere in the boring Latin prose the decidedly English ?Jumbo is a c...?, Jumbo being the nickname of the master in question (who was actually a thoroughly decent guy). The gamble was whether the master would laboriously read through every written word. He got away with it!
?
Dave Newbitt.
?
?
From: Nick Ware via Tech1 
Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 8:38 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online
?
? 
On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:01, M E GILES via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]

I don?t think that schools dish out lines as punishment? nowadays ~ all activity, even in detention, should be constructive. (I do agree with that philosophy, btw.)
?
Mike G
?
Ah yes, detention and lines! 
My most memorable was on an occasion when our whole ?house? of around thirty boys were being interrogated because someone had left a toilet seat down. No-one owned up to this cardinal crime, so we were all made to spend the evening prep period writing the following out 100 times:
?Mr Tarbat happened to mean what he said about seats left down after you use the lavatory?.
In my handrwiting the line break came after the word ?the?.
It gave me great amusement to write
Mr Tarbat?.
lavatory.
(In ink, the rest of the line in pencil)
When hauled out in front of the other boys I tried to explain that my pen ran out.
?What, a hundred times, boy? Bend over and touch your toes?
That got me four whacks on the bare bottom by his bare hand. Pervert: that could earn him a jail sentence nowadays!
?
As it happens, leaving the seat up was a good rule, because boys being boys, if left down it would just get peed on by the next person.
Plus ca change?..!
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
?
?

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From Waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov  4 06:02:59 2021
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 11:02:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?Lines_was=3A_=27We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_g?=
 =?utf-8?q?rants=27?=
In-Reply-To: <6183ae50.1c69fb81.52438.d241@mx.google.com>
References: <PAXP191MB1981F4C30BC1470B9F1D626BA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<79DC5E67735247778EA3BC206E70E680@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<6183ae50.1c69fb81.52438.d241@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB19815E2BD71A555B337ADB1CA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

And another, by way of light relief for a moment from carbon emissions:
If I can, on a Thursday morning such as this, I like to go to the village farmers? market. No single use plastics there, and if you ask, it?s easy to minimise airmiles on your fruit and veg. Strawberries in November from Peru? I don?t think so, thanks!

Grant, a very nice local farmer, has a stall selling eggs and meat products from his farm.
I have this childish habit when he asks: ?Would you like to choose your eggs?? (apparently, some people do), of replying: ?No, just give me six of the best please!?. And if I don?t say that first, he?ll pre-empt it by saying: ?Ah, have you come for your six of the best??. And so, the silly banter goes on from there.
His daughter is often there helping, and even after many months of this mysterious behaviour, she still can?t understand why the phrase ?six of the best? leaves us, and any bystanders of a certain age, cackling with laughter.
?See you next week? he always says, and he surely will.
But it doesn?t end there. There?s another egg stall that I have to walk past to get to the car (if I haven?t gone to market on foot). The lady on that stall asks me why I don?t buy her eggs for a change. I say: ?Because he gives me six of the best?. She doesn?t get the joke, and probably rightly, thinks I?m a weirdo.
Cheers,
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 4 Nov 2021, at 09:56, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:

?
Nick and Dave?s experiences were very similar to my school. There, the lined stationery was known as ?a blue paper? for it was that colour and issued by one?s housemaster. I was ?awarded? one for talking in class. Housemaster wanted to know what I was chattering about. It concerned electronic circuits, so I was set to copy out a circuit diagram from a radio magazine. This took far longer than writing lines, but it fixed it in my mind, so the punishment was constructive.
Nick?s tale of toilet seats reminds me of a cameraman that we both used to work with. His downstairs loo had a card on the wall which read: ?If you sprinkle when you tinkle ? please be sweet and wipe the seat!?.
I got the cane a couple of times at boarding prep school. Yes, it hurt, but was quickly over and it made one calculate the chances of being caught rather more accurately! The worst thing was if the known punishment was deliberately delayed for a few days, as it preyed on the mind. After that, I think that we would have been able to survive Gestapo psychological torture!

Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: David Newbitt via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 04 November 2021 09:09
To: Nick Ware<mailto:waresound at msn.com>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net<mailto:dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net>
Subject: Re: [Tech1]We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online

At my school lines didn?t take the form of ? I must not.......? repeated x times. Oh no, they had to be written out in Latin.

Any lad issued lines by a master (always in multiples of 20) would have to go to his housemaster, relate the circumstances and request issue of the requisite number of pages of ?Line paper?. This was double sided, 20 rows per side and lined horizontally with three lines for each row of text. Lower case letters had to touch the bottom and middle lines, upper case the bottom and top lines. The words could be anything copied in Latin from a text book. This was a pretty laborious process, both the copying and the requirement to keep to the lines. If after handing in your lines they were deemed below par you would have to do them again.

Imagine the courage then of the lad who inserted somewhere in the boring Latin prose the decidedly English ?Jumbo is a c...?, Jumbo being the nickname of the master in question (who was actually a thoroughly decent guy). The gamble was whether the master would laboriously read through every written word. He got away with it!

Dave Newbitt.


From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 8:38 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online

?
On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:01, M E GILES via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]

I don?t think that schools dish out lines as punishment  nowadays ~ all activity, even in detention, should be constructive. (I do agree with that philosophy, btw.)

Mike G

Ah yes, detention and lines!
My most memorable was on an occasion when our whole ?house? of around thirty boys were being interrogated because someone had left a toilet seat down. No-one owned up to this cardinal crime, so we were all made to spend the evening prep period writing the following out 100 times:
?Mr Tarbat happened to mean what he said about seats left down after you use the lavatory?.
In my handrwiting the line break came after the word ?the?.
It gave me great amusement to write
Mr Tarbat?.
lavatory.
(In ink, the rest of the line in pencil)
When hauled out in front of the other boys I tried to explain that my pen ran out.
?What, a hundred times, boy? Bend over and touch your toes?
That got me four whacks on the bare bottom by his bare hand. Pervert: that could earn him a jail sentence nowadays!

As it happens, leaving the seat up was a good rule, because boys being boys, if left down it would just get peed on by the next person.
Plus ca change?..!
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5



--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov  4 06:06:44 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 11:06:44 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?Lines_was=3A_=27We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_g?=
 =?utf-8?q?rants=27?=
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB19815E2BD71A555B337ADB1CA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAXP191MB1981F4C30BC1470B9F1D626BA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<79DC5E67735247778EA3BC206E70E680@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<6183ae50.1c69fb81.52438.d241@mx.google.com>
	<PAXP191MB19815E2BD71A555B337ADB1CA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981D5AC807C79F93B5C5C9AA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

And did I ever tell you about the chemistry master, the communal boy-pee and the oil drum?
I?ll wait in case I did.
Cheers,
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 4 Nov 2021, at 11:03, Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com> wrote:

? And another, by way of light relief for a moment from carbon emissions:
If I can, on a Thursday morning such as this, I like to go to the village farmers? market. No single use plastics there, and if you ask, it?s easy to minimise airmiles on your fruit and veg. Strawberries in November from Peru? I don?t think so, thanks!

Grant, a very nice local farmer, has a stall selling eggs and meat products from his farm.
I have this childish habit when he asks: ?Would you like to choose your eggs?? (apparently, some people do), of replying: ?No, just give me six of the best please!?. And if I don?t say that first, he?ll pre-empt it by saying: ?Ah, have you come for your six of the best??. And so, the silly banter goes on from there.
His daughter is often there helping, and even after many months of this mysterious behaviour, she still can?t understand why the phrase ?six of the best? leaves us, and any bystanders of a certain age, cackling with laughter.
?See you next week? he always says, and he surely will.
But it doesn?t end there. There?s another egg stall that I have to walk past to get to the car (if I haven?t gone to market on foot). The lady on that stall asks me why I don?t buy her eggs for a change. I say: ?Because he gives me six of the best?. She doesn?t get the joke, and probably rightly, thinks I?m a weirdo.
Cheers,
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 4 Nov 2021, at 09:56, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:

?
Nick and Dave?s experiences were very similar to my school. There, the lined stationery was known as ?a blue paper? for it was that colour and issued by one?s housemaster. I was ?awarded? one for talking in class. Housemaster wanted to know what I was chattering about. It concerned electronic circuits, so I was set to copy out a circuit diagram from a radio magazine. This took far longer than writing lines, but it fixed it in my mind, so the punishment was constructive.
Nick?s tale of toilet seats reminds me of a cameraman that we both used to work with. His downstairs loo had a card on the wall which read: ?If you sprinkle when you tinkle ? please be sweet and wipe the seat!?.
I got the cane a couple of times at boarding prep school. Yes, it hurt, but was quickly over and it made one calculate the chances of being caught rather more accurately! The worst thing was if the known punishment was deliberately delayed for a few days, as it preyed on the mind. After that, I think that we would have been able to survive Gestapo psychological torture!

Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: David Newbitt via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 04 November 2021 09:09
To: Nick Ware<mailto:waresound at msn.com>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net<mailto:dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net>
Subject: Re: [Tech1]We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online

At my school lines didn?t take the form of ? I must not.......? repeated x times. Oh no, they had to be written out in Latin.

Any lad issued lines by a master (always in multiples of 20) would have to go to his housemaster, relate the circumstances and request issue of the requisite number of pages of ?Line paper?. This was double sided, 20 rows per side and lined horizontally with three lines for each row of text. Lower case letters had to touch the bottom and middle lines, upper case the bottom and top lines. The words could be anything copied in Latin from a text book. This was a pretty laborious process, both the copying and the requirement to keep to the lines. If after handing in your lines they were deemed below par you would have to do them again.

Imagine the courage then of the lad who inserted somewhere in the boring Latin prose the decidedly English ?Jumbo is a c...?, Jumbo being the nickname of the master in question (who was actually a thoroughly decent guy). The gamble was whether the master would laboriously read through every written word. He got away with it!

Dave Newbitt.


From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 8:38 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online

?
On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:01, M E GILES via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]

I don?t think that schools dish out lines as punishment  nowadays ~ all activity, even in detention, should be constructive. (I do agree with that philosophy, btw.)

Mike G

Ah yes, detention and lines!
My most memorable was on an occasion when our whole ?house? of around thirty boys were being interrogated because someone had left a toilet seat down. No-one owned up to this cardinal crime, so we were all made to spend the evening prep period writing the following out 100 times:
?Mr Tarbat happened to mean what he said about seats left down after you use the lavatory?.
In my handrwiting the line break came after the word ?the?.
It gave me great amusement to write
Mr Tarbat?.
lavatory.
(In ink, the rest of the line in pencil)
When hauled out in front of the other boys I tried to explain that my pen ran out.
?What, a hundred times, boy? Bend over and touch your toes?
That got me four whacks on the bare bottom by his bare hand. Pervert: that could earn him a jail sentence nowadays!

As it happens, leaving the seat up was a good rule, because boys being boys, if left down it would just get peed on by the next person.
Plus ca change?..!
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5



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From Waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov  4 06:42:08 2021
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 11:42:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?Lines_was=3A_=27We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_g?=
 =?utf-8?q?rants=27?=
In-Reply-To: <6183ae50.1c69fb81.52438.d241@mx.google.com>
References: <PAXP191MB1981F4C30BC1470B9F1D626BA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<79DC5E67735247778EA3BC206E70E680@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<6183ae50.1c69fb81.52438.d241@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB198123A4D7A27970D97991DFA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Pat mentions a cameraman we used to work with, still a good friend of mine. Nigel?s downstairs loo for some reason, had a wider than normal overflow pipe than ran out into a drain in the back yard. There was a famous occasion when the toilet wouldn?t flush properly, and on lifting the cistern lid we found a dead rat trapped in there.
Thus giving credibility to the phrase: ?A rat up a drainpipe?.
Cheers,
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 4 Nov 2021, at 09:56, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:

?
Nick and Dave?s experiences were very similar to my school. There, the lined stationery was known as ?a blue paper? for it was that colour and issued by one?s housemaster. I was ?awarded? one for talking in class. Housemaster wanted to know what I was chattering about. It concerned electronic circuits, so I was set to copy out a circuit diagram from a radio magazine. This took far longer than writing lines, but it fixed it in my mind, so the punishment was constructive.
Nick?s tale of toilet seats reminds me of a cameraman that we both used to work with. His downstairs loo had a card on the wall which read: ?If you sprinkle when you tinkle ? please be sweet and wipe the seat!?.
I got the cane a couple of times at boarding prep school. Yes, it hurt, but was quickly over and it made one calculate the chances of being caught rather more accurately! The worst thing was if the known punishment was deliberately delayed for a few days, as it preyed on the mind. After that, I think that we would have been able to survive Gestapo psychological torture!

Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: David Newbitt via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 04 November 2021 09:09
To: Nick Ware<mailto:waresound at msn.com>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net<mailto:dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net>
Subject: Re: [Tech1]We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online

At my school lines didn?t take the form of ? I must not.......? repeated x times. Oh no, they had to be written out in Latin.

Any lad issued lines by a master (always in multiples of 20) would have to go to his housemaster, relate the circumstances and request issue of the requisite number of pages of ?Line paper?. This was double sided, 20 rows per side and lined horizontally with three lines for each row of text. Lower case letters had to touch the bottom and middle lines, upper case the bottom and top lines. The words could be anything copied in Latin from a text book. This was a pretty laborious process, both the copying and the requirement to keep to the lines. If after handing in your lines they were deemed below par you would have to do them again.

Imagine the courage then of the lad who inserted somewhere in the boring Latin prose the decidedly English ?Jumbo is a c...?, Jumbo being the nickname of the master in question (who was actually a thoroughly decent guy). The gamble was whether the master would laboriously read through every written word. He got away with it!

Dave Newbitt.


From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: Thursday, November 4, 2021 8:38 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online

?
On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:01, M E GILES via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]

I don?t think that schools dish out lines as punishment  nowadays ~ all activity, even in detention, should be constructive. (I do agree with that philosophy, btw.)

Mike G

Ah yes, detention and lines!
My most memorable was on an occasion when our whole ?house? of around thirty boys were being interrogated because someone had left a toilet seat down. No-one owned up to this cardinal crime, so we were all made to spend the evening prep period writing the following out 100 times:
?Mr Tarbat happened to mean what he said about seats left down after you use the lavatory?.
In my handrwiting the line break came after the word ?the?.
It gave me great amusement to write
Mr Tarbat?.
lavatory.
(In ink, the rest of the line in pencil)
When hauled out in front of the other boys I tried to explain that my pen ran out.
?What, a hundred times, boy? Bend over and touch your toes?
That got me four whacks on the bare bottom by his bare hand. Pervert: that could earn him a jail sentence nowadays!

As it happens, leaving the seat up was a good rule, because boys being boys, if left down it would just get peed on by the next person.
Plus ca change?..!
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5



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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Thu Nov  4 06:48:28 2021
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 11:48:28 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?Lines_was=3A_=27We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_g?=
 =?utf-8?q?rants=27?=
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981D5AC807C79F93B5C5C9AA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAXP191MB1981F4C30BC1470B9F1D626BA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<79DC5E67735247778EA3BC206E70E680@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<6183ae50.1c69fb81.52438.d241@mx.google.com>
	<PAXP191MB19815E2BD71A555B337ADB1CA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<PAXP191MB1981D5AC807C79F93B5C5C9AA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <1898023462.304181.1636026508851@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From relong at btinternet.com  Thu Nov  4 07:00:35 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 12:00:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Dicky Bird RIP
Message-ID: <D4928BF6-A875-4966-9582-B1E33D4E10ED@btinternet.com>

My friend and colleague Lyndon Bird has died of cancer yesterday.
Dicky was ex Bush House, Cardiff BH and then Bristol FU.
He was recordist on Eastward with Attenborough and thence on many blue chip NHU Attenborough?s.
Many will remember Silver back gorillas with David?s PTC whilst wrestling with a female..
Dicky also did many dramas of a theatrical kind , Edge of Darkness my favourite.
He was a great chap ,reliable, witty and enduring ,sad to see him go.
Roger

Sent from my iPhone


From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 07:09:32 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 12:09:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <0CC4516C-B023-4076-B736-15F48B25D78B@me.com>
References: <851AF3C1-C87F-4D01-BF63-BC9C4EB6B0D1@mac.com>
	<0CC4516C-B023-4076-B736-15F48B25D78B@me.com>
Message-ID: <2e48918c-3e8c-4a0f-704b-7f97218bacd8@gmail.com>

This is how to do it





B



On 04/11/2021 08:22, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> When I wrote about hydrogen flames burning above an accident, I 
> originally included a paragraph mentioning that it was proposed that 
> vehicle hydrogen tanks would contain an absorbent catalyst which only 
> allowed controlled release at a limited rate in the event of the tank 
> being ruptured. ?However I deleted that paragraph as I wasn?t sure if 
> I was remembering correctly. ?It looks like we were thinking about the 
> same concept.
>
> The other reason why I was doubtful about it was that if the hydrogen 
> can?t escape rapidly,,does the filling limit the speed at which the 
> tank can be refilled? ?One often touted advantage of hydrogen over 
> electrical batteries is that hydrogen tanks can be refilled about as 
> quickly as petrol or diesel tanks.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>> On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:01, M E GILES via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ? I believe the current thinking is that hydrogen tanks for vehicles 
>> would be filled with what amount to rigid sponges, rather than empty 
>> spaces, but I can?t remember what material was mentioned as providing 
>> the absorbent structure.
>>
>> I must pat more attention.??I must pay more attention.??I 
>> must?pay?more attention.??I must?pay?more attention.??I must?pay?more 
>> attention???????????..
>>
>> I don?t think that schools dish out lines as punishment ?nowadays ~ 
>> all activity, even in detention, should be constructive. (I do agree 
>> with that philosophy, btw.)
>>
>> Mike G
>>
>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 20:47, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Going back about 50 years, I remember an article I read which was 
>>> answering questions raised about nuclear power stations being built, 
>>> and how safe the technology was, etc. etc. (you've heard all that 
>>> before) but what struck me was that they went on to say that the 
>>> only reason nuclear power plants were being built with plutonium as 
>>> a fuel was that the much safer use of thorium would need starting 
>>> from scratch, since it had no use as weapon material, and all 
>>> previous research and development had been in the field of 
>>> military/offensive usage, and thus the subsequent use of nuclear 
>>> technology was built on the bomb.
>>>
>>> So, I've subsequently read how nuclear fission is the 'holy grail' 
>>> but the temperature generated is the same as the sun's surface, how 
>>> can that be contained/controlled? It leaves poor mortals like myself 
>>> yelling from the sidelines, why wasn't thorium developed all those 
>>> years ago, similarly what about the tidal energy that's been talked 
>>> about since the turn of the century?
>>>
>>> Doubt there'll be any answers from COP-OUT 26, let's just do the 
>>> ostrich and put our heads back in the sand. (Pessimistic? Moi? You 
>>> bet your sweet bippy).
>>>
>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>
>>> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
>>>
>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>> On Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021 at 17:27, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars 
>>>> ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being 
>>>> mentioned as a viable option ). ?The prospect of hydrogen creating 
>>>> a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was 
>>>> argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol 
>>>> or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on 
>>>> top. ?Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen 
>>>> flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon 
>>>> flame.
>>>>
>>>> Alan Taylor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 
>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a 
>>>>> pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old 
>>>>> enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic 
>>>>> airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in 
>>>>> books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or 
>>>>> LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too 
>>>>> but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers 
>>>>> will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. 
>>>>> Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they 
>>>>> have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish 
>>>>> and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is 
>>>>> classified as dangerous to the environment.?
>>>>> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not 
>>>>> very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the 
>>>>> ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in 
>>>>> completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from 
>>>>> my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 
>>>>> of the ?needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless 
>>>>> because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where 
>>>>> improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need 
>>>>> for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the 
>>>>> time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the 
>>>>> high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly 
>>>>> increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an 
>>>>> unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and 
>>>>> don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out 
>>>>> there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if 
>>>>> nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its 
>>>>> construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of 
>>>>> security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.
>>>>> The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could 
>>>>> never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.
>>>>> It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those 
>>>>> of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps 
>>>>> there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 
>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for 
>>>>>> it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But 
>>>>>> it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought 
>>>>>> they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't 
>>>>>> robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to 
>>>>>> use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though 
>>>>>> keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen 
>>>>>> definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't 
>>>>>> quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the 
>>>>>> pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how 
>>>>>> they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure 
>>>>>> hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more 
>>>>>> difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of 
>>>>>> concrete blocks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen 
>>>>>>> engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, 
>>>>>>> Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or 
>>>>>>> combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working 
>>>>>>> on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then 
>>>>>>> cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at 
>>>>>>> night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make 
>>>>>>> ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill 
>>>>>>> with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - 
>>>>>>> are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> B
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a 
>>>>>>>>> second industrial revolution
>>>>>>>>> .....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us 
>>>>>>>> into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply 
>>>>>>>> without having to worry about where and how the disposal is 
>>>>>>>> carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to 
>>>>>>>> the point where survivability is in question.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or 
>>>>>>>> cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can 
>>>>>>>> shrug that off onto future governments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>>>>>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <x-msg://37/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> -- 
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>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From hughsheppard at btinternet.com  Thu Nov  4 07:17:53 2021
From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 12:17:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <2e48918c-3e8c-4a0f-704b-7f97218bacd8@gmail.com>
References: <851AF3C1-C87F-4D01-BF63-BC9C4EB6B0D1@mac.com>
	<0CC4516C-B023-4076-B736-15F48B25D78B@me.com>
	<2e48918c-3e8c-4a0f-704b-7f97218bacd8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a3fddd1e-1031-3d68-8ac2-9a548f5da016@btinternet.com>

And as a child of our time...? I saw a Hants & Dorset double-decker bus 
with a gas-bag trailer in Winchester during the war. (But don't mention 
it!).

Hugh

On 04/11/2021 12:09, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
> This is how to do it
>
>
>
>
>
> B
>
>
>
> On 04/11/2021 08:22, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> When I wrote about hydrogen flames burning above an accident, I 
>> originally included a paragraph mentioning that it was proposed that 
>> vehicle hydrogen tanks would contain an absorbent catalyst which only 
>> allowed controlled release at a limited rate in the event of the tank 
>> being ruptured. ?However I deleted that paragraph as I wasn?t sure if 
>> I was remembering correctly. ?It looks like we were thinking about 
>> the same concept.
>>
>> The other reason why I was doubtful about it was that if the hydrogen 
>> can?t escape rapidly,,does the filling limit the speed at which the 
>> tank can be refilled? ?One often touted advantage of hydrogen over 
>> electrical batteries is that hydrogen tanks can be refilled about as 
>> quickly as petrol or diesel tanks.
>>
>> Alan Taylor
>>
>>
>>> On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:01, M E GILES via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? I believe the current thinking is that hydrogen tanks for vehicles 
>>> would be filled with what amount to rigid sponges, rather than empty 
>>> spaces, but I can?t remember what material was mentioned as 
>>> providing the absorbent structure.
>>>
>>> I must pat more attention.??I must pay more attention.??I 
>>> must?pay?more attention.??I must?pay?more attention.??I 
>>> must?pay?more attention???????????..
>>>
>>> I don?t think that schools dish out lines as punishment ?nowadays ~ 
>>> all activity, even in detention, should be constructive. (I do agree 
>>> with that philosophy, btw.)
>>>
>>> Mike G
>>>
>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 20:47, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Going back about 50 years, I remember an article I read which was 
>>>> answering questions raised about nuclear power stations being 
>>>> built, and how safe the technology was, etc. etc. (you've heard all 
>>>> that before) but what struck me was that they went on to say that 
>>>> the only reason nuclear power plants were being built with 
>>>> plutonium as a fuel was that the much safer use of thorium would 
>>>> need starting from scratch, since it had no use as weapon material, 
>>>> and all previous research and development had been in the field of 
>>>> military/offensive usage, and thus the subsequent use of nuclear 
>>>> technology was built on the bomb.
>>>>
>>>> So, I've subsequently read how nuclear fission is the 'holy grail' 
>>>> but the temperature generated is the same as the sun's surface, how 
>>>> can that be contained/controlled? It leaves poor mortals like 
>>>> myself yelling from the sidelines, why wasn't thorium developed all 
>>>> those years ago, similarly what about the tidal energy that's been 
>>>> talked about since the turn of the century?
>>>>
>>>> Doubt there'll be any answers from COP-OUT 26, let's just do the 
>>>> ostrich and put our heads back in the sand. (Pessimistic? Moi? You 
>>>> bet your sweet bippy).
>>>>
>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>>
>>>> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
>>>>
>>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>> On Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021 at 17:27, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars 
>>>>> ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being 
>>>>> mentioned as a viable option ). ?The prospect of hydrogen creating 
>>>>> a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was 
>>>>> argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol 
>>>>> or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on 
>>>>> top. ?Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen 
>>>>> flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a 
>>>>> hydrocarbon flame.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan Taylor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 
>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a 
>>>>>> pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old 
>>>>>> enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic 
>>>>>> airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in 
>>>>>> books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or 
>>>>>> LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too 
>>>>>> but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the 
>>>>>> designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at 
>>>>>> filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans 
>>>>>> and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in 
>>>>>> the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for 
>>>>>> this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
>>>>>> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not 
>>>>>> very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the 
>>>>>> ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in 
>>>>>> completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from 
>>>>>> my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 
>>>>>> of the ?needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless 
>>>>>> because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age 
>>>>>> where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal 
>>>>>> the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially 
>>>>>> when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. 
>>>>>> Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, 
>>>>>> with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a 
>>>>>> stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on 
>>>>>> Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad 
>>>>>> evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their 
>>>>>> business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their 
>>>>>> protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by 
>>>>>> the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their 
>>>>>> encampment near Wendover.
>>>>>> The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could 
>>>>>> never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing 
>>>>>> invisible.
>>>>>> It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from 
>>>>>> those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and 
>>>>>> perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 
>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going 
>>>>>>> for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. 
>>>>>>> But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought 
>>>>>>> they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't 
>>>>>>> robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to 
>>>>>>> use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though 
>>>>>>> keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen 
>>>>>>> definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't 
>>>>>>> quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the 
>>>>>>> pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how 
>>>>>>> they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure 
>>>>>>> hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more 
>>>>>>> difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of 
>>>>>>> concrete blocks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen 
>>>>>>>> engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the 
>>>>>>>> boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger 
>>>>>>>> or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working 
>>>>>>>> on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then 
>>>>>>>> cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at 
>>>>>>>> night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, 
>>>>>>>> make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, 
>>>>>>>> fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other 
>>>>>>>> companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> B
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a 
>>>>>>>>>> second industrial revolution
>>>>>>>>>> .....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us 
>>>>>>>>> into the current position. The freedom to charge for the 
>>>>>>>>> supply without having to worry about where and how the 
>>>>>>>>> disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and 
>>>>>>>>> now space) to the point where survivability is in question.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or 
>>>>>>>>> cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can 
>>>>>>>>> shrug that off onto future governments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>>>>>>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <x-msg://37/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>
>
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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Nov  4 07:22:29 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 12:22:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <2e48918c-3e8c-4a0f-704b-7f97218bacd8@gmail.com>
References: <2e48918c-3e8c-4a0f-704b-7f97218bacd8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <829171B8-C8AD-4C7C-815B-01F50816A094@me.com>

My German in-laws used to run a car which had been converted to LPG.  They got the ferry over here ( LPG vehicles are not allowed in the channel tunnel ) and drove to our village.  I had already checked that the local farm stores offers LPG vehicle refuelling facilities.

That?s when we discovered that continental vehicles use a different type of nozzle to British ones! One was bayonet, the other screw fixing.  You can buy adaptors online, but it wouldn?t have reached us in time.

It seems beyond bizarre that something a recently introduced as LPG for cars didn?t have a single international standard for the filling nozzle. 

Standards ? We love them, that?s why we have so many of them.

Alan Taylor


> On 4 Nov 2021, at 12:14, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? This is how to do it
> 
> <K0dzbdk0cSGGfSF4.png>
> 
> 
> <OJVCs06EF0sMjNJe.png>
> 
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
> On 04/11/2021 08:22, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> When I wrote about hydrogen flames burning above an accident, I originally included a paragraph mentioning that it was proposed that vehicle hydrogen tanks would contain an absorbent catalyst which only allowed controlled release at a limited rate in the event of the tank being ruptured.  However I deleted that paragraph as I wasn?t sure if I was remembering correctly.  It looks like we were thinking about the same concept.
>> 
>> The other reason why I was doubtful about it was that if the hydrogen can?t escape rapidly,,does the filling limit the speed at which the tank can be refilled?  One often touted advantage of hydrogen over electrical batteries is that hydrogen tanks can be refilled about as quickly as petrol or diesel tanks.
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>> 
>>> On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:01, M E GILES via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ? I believe the current thinking is that hydrogen tanks for vehicles would be filled with what amount to rigid sponges, rather than empty spaces, but I can?t remember what material was mentioned as providing the absorbent structure. 
>>> 
>>> I must pat more attention.  I must pay more attention.  I must pay more attention.  I must pay more attention.  I must pay more attention???????????..
>>> 
>>> I don?t think that schools dish out lines as punishment  nowadays ~ all activity, even in detention, should be constructive. (I do agree with that philosophy, btw.)
>>> 
>>> Mike G
>>> 
>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 20:47, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Going back about 50 years, I remember an article I read which was answering questions raised about nuclear power stations being built, and how safe the technology was, etc. etc. (you've heard all that before) but what struck me was that they went on to say that the only reason nuclear power plants were being built with plutonium as a fuel was that the much safer use of thorium would need starting from scratch, since it had no use as weapon material, and all previous research and development had been in the field of military/offensive usage, and thus the subsequent use of nuclear technology was built on the bomb.
>>>> 
>>>> So, I've subsequently read how nuclear fission is the 'holy grail' but the temperature generated is the same as the sun's surface, how can that be contained/controlled? It leaves poor mortals like myself yelling from the sidelines, why wasn't thorium developed all those years ago, similarly what about the tidal energy that's been talked about since the turn of the century?
>>>> 
>>>> Doubt there'll be any answers from COP-OUT 26, let's just do the ostrich and put our heads back in the sand. (Pessimistic? Moi? You bet your sweet bippy).
>>>> 
>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>> 
>>>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>>>> 
>>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>> On Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021 at 17:27, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being mentioned as a viable option ).  The prospect of hydrogen creating a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on top.  Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon flame. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alan Taylor
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ?The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
>>>>>> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of the  needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.
>>>>>> The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.
>>>>>> It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.   
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> B
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote: 
>>>>>>>>>> ... 
>>>>>>>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
>>>>>>>>>> ..... 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments. 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Chris Woolf 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 07:28:04 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 12:28:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?q?Fwd=3A__We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_fo?=
 =?utf-8?q?r_heat_pump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <809C7C28-5D48-4021-B27F-2D7DD9AD27A2@sky.com>
References: <809C7C28-5D48-4021-B27F-2D7DD9AD27A2@sky.com>
Message-ID: <598a375c-8d5c-ebf5-8bec-b3de3f9d23c5@gmail.com>




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [Tech1] We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it 
saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online
Date: 	Thu, 4 Nov 2021 12:27:19 +0000
From: 	B Wilkinson <barry-wilkinson at sky.com>
To: 	Bernard Newnham <bernie833 at gmail.com>



 ?Perfect, and the hydrogen in the bag would reduce the weight of the 
car so you would only need a small engine to propel the vehicle. However 
perhaps the aerodynamics might be a bit compromised. A wedge of cheese 
shape for the bag might help that , and of course you could put hydrogen 
in the tyres for further weight reduction.

Sent from my iPad

> On 4 Nov 2021, at 12:10, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ? This is how to do it
>
>
>
>
>
> B
>
>
>
> On 04/11/2021 08:22, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> When I wrote about hydrogen flames burning above an accident, I 
>> originally included a paragraph mentioning that it was proposed that 
>> vehicle hydrogen tanks would contain an absorbent catalyst which only 
>> allowed controlled release at a limited rate in the event of the tank 
>> being ruptured. ?However I deleted that paragraph as I wasn?t sure if 
>> I was remembering correctly. ?It looks like we were thinking about 
>> the same concept.
>>
>> The other reason why I was doubtful about it was that if the hydrogen 
>> can?t escape rapidly,,does the filling limit the speed at which the 
>> tank can be refilled? ?One often touted advantage of hydrogen over 
>> electrical batteries is that hydrogen tanks can be refilled about as 
>> quickly as petrol or diesel tanks.
>>
>> Alan Taylor
>>
>>
>>> On 4 Nov 2021, at 00:01, M E GILES via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? I believe the current thinking is that hydrogen tanks for vehicles 
>>> would be filled with what amount to rigid sponges, rather than empty 
>>> spaces, but I can?t remember what material was mentioned as 
>>> providing the absorbent structure.
>>>
>>> I must pat more attention.??I must pay more attention.??I 
>>> must?pay?more attention.??I must?pay?more attention.??I 
>>> must?pay?more attention???????????..
>>>
>>> I don?t think that schools dish out lines as punishment ?nowadays ~ 
>>> all activity, even in detention, should be constructive. (I do agree 
>>> with that philosophy, btw.)
>>>
>>> Mike G
>>>
>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 20:47, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Going back about 50 years, I remember an article I read which was 
>>>> answering questions raised about nuclear power stations being 
>>>> built, and how safe the technology was, etc. etc. (you've heard all 
>>>> that before) but what struck me was that they went on to say that 
>>>> the only reason nuclear power plants were being built with 
>>>> plutonium as a fuel was that the much safer use of thorium would 
>>>> need starting from scratch, since it had no use as weapon material, 
>>>> and all previous research and development had been in the field of 
>>>> military/offensive usage, and thus the subsequent use of nuclear 
>>>> technology was built on the bomb.
>>>>
>>>> So, I've subsequently read how nuclear fission is the 'holy grail' 
>>>> but the temperature generated is the same as the sun's surface, how 
>>>> can that be contained/controlled? It leaves poor mortals like 
>>>> myself yelling from the sidelines, why wasn't thorium developed all 
>>>> those years ago, similarly what about the tidal energy that's been 
>>>> talked about since the turn of the century?
>>>>
>>>> Doubt there'll be any answers from COP-OUT 26, let's just do the 
>>>> ostrich and put our heads back in the sand. (Pessimistic? Moi? You 
>>>> bet your sweet bippy).
>>>>
>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>>
>>>> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
>>>>
>>>> ??????? Original Message ???????
>>>> On Wednesday, November 3rd, 2021 at 17:27, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars 
>>>>> ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being 
>>>>> mentioned as a viable option ). ?The prospect of hydrogen creating 
>>>>> a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was 
>>>>> argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol 
>>>>> or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on 
>>>>> top. ?Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen 
>>>>> flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a 
>>>>> hydrocarbon flame.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan Taylor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 
>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a 
>>>>>> pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old 
>>>>>> enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic 
>>>>>> airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in 
>>>>>> books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or 
>>>>>> LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too 
>>>>>> but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the 
>>>>>> designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at 
>>>>>> filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans 
>>>>>> and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in 
>>>>>> the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for 
>>>>>> this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
>>>>>> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not 
>>>>>> very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the 
>>>>>> ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in 
>>>>>> completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from 
>>>>>> my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 
>>>>>> of the ?needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless 
>>>>>> because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age 
>>>>>> where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal 
>>>>>> the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially 
>>>>>> when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. 
>>>>>> Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, 
>>>>>> with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a 
>>>>>> stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on 
>>>>>> Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad 
>>>>>> evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their 
>>>>>> business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their 
>>>>>> protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by 
>>>>>> the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their 
>>>>>> encampment near Wendover.
>>>>>> The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could 
>>>>>> never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing 
>>>>>> invisible.
>>>>>> It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from 
>>>>>> those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and 
>>>>>> perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 
>>>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going 
>>>>>>> for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. 
>>>>>>> But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought 
>>>>>>> they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't 
>>>>>>> robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to 
>>>>>>> use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though 
>>>>>>> keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen 
>>>>>>> definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't 
>>>>>>> quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the 
>>>>>>> pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how 
>>>>>>> they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure 
>>>>>>> hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more 
>>>>>>> difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of 
>>>>>>> concrete blocks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen 
>>>>>>>> engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the 
>>>>>>>> boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger 
>>>>>>>> or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working 
>>>>>>>> on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then 
>>>>>>>> cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at 
>>>>>>>> night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, 
>>>>>>>> make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, 
>>>>>>>> fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other 
>>>>>>>> companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> B
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a 
>>>>>>>>>> second industrial revolution
>>>>>>>>>> .....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us 
>>>>>>>>> into the current position. The freedom to charge for the 
>>>>>>>>> supply without having to worry about where and how the 
>>>>>>>>> disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and 
>>>>>>>>> now space) to the point where survivability is in question.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or 
>>>>>>>>> cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can 
>>>>>>>>> shrug that off onto future governments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>>>>>>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <x-msg://37/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Nov  4 07:29:10 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 12:29:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Dicky Bird RIP
In-Reply-To: <D4928BF6-A875-4966-9582-B1E33D4E10ED@btinternet.com>
References: <D4928BF6-A875-4966-9582-B1E33D4E10ED@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <41EDC6CA-21CF-48FB-A40F-D30D8FC7E176@mac.com>

How sad - I didn?t even know he was unwell. I worked with Dicky as we then knew him in Bristol for several years. I was sorry to miss him at David Attenborough?s 90th recording when I got tickets in the alumni draw, but he was a special guest. I gathered he was there as I happened to be sitting next to John Sparks whom I had often worked with in the Bristol dubbing suite when he was producer on Sir David?s many epics. 

Am I right in thinking Lyndon?s wife died a while ago? And if you have any contact details for his family, Roger, I would like to send a message of condolence. 

Mike G

> On 4 Nov 2021, at 12:01, Roger Long via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?My friend and colleague Lyndon Bird has died of cancer yesterday.
> Dicky was ex Bush House, Cardiff BH and then Bristol FU.
> He was recordist on Eastward with Attenborough and thence on many blue chip NHU Attenborough?s.
> Many will remember Silver back gorillas with David?s PTC whilst wrestling with a female..
> Dicky also did many dramas of a theatrical kind , Edge of Darkness my favourite.
> He was a great chap ,reliable, witty and enduring ,sad to see him go.
> Roger
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From Waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov  4 08:43:38 2021
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 13:43:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?Lines_was=3A_=27We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_g?=
 =?utf-8?q?rants=27?=
In-Reply-To: <1898023462.304181.1636026508851@email.ionos.co.uk>
References: <PAXP191MB1981F4C30BC1470B9F1D626BA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<79DC5E67735247778EA3BC206E70E680@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<6183ae50.1c69fb81.52438.d241@mx.google.com>
	<PAXP191MB19815E2BD71A555B337ADB1CA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<PAXP191MB1981D5AC807C79F93B5C5C9AA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<1898023462.304181.1636026508851@email.ionos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981E68EC1218EB93881C96FA78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Ah good, thanks, Nick.
I?d hate to repeat myself
repeat myself??

Village market gossip today:  Apparently the latest trick doing the rounds, is some sub-species of humanity going around throwing eggs at people?s front doors. If they don?t get cleaned up they know there?s likely no-one there and so a good target for break-in and burglary.
Cheers,
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 4 Nov 2021, at 11:48, Nick Way <nick at nickway.co.uk> wrote:

?
...yes you did, Nick!

With best wishes,

Nick WAY
On 04/11/2021 11:06 Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


And did I ever tell you about the chemistry master, the communal boy-pee and the oil drum?
I?ll wait in case I did.
Cheers,
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
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From saranewman at hotmail.com  Thu Nov  4 08:51:37 2021
From: saranewman at hotmail.com (sara newman)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 13:51:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Evesham tech ops course.
Message-ID: <DB9PR08MB70494BB884464D1B840CC02FD08D9@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Hi, 

I found these today in my grand sort out. I spent three months with these guys and can only remember Audry?s name? Anyone recognise anyone? Some went to transmitters and some to VT. Who was the tutor? Neil Dormand might know?  Sarax
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 13:15:18 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 18:15:18 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <8F871E8A-DD99-4DF0-8DEB-4F98DCF69F29@me.com>
References: <8F871E8A-DD99-4DF0-8DEB-4F98DCF69F29@me.com>
Message-ID: <0652D4F5-EB01-4F5C-A0BC-729F1157BF79@gmail.com>

I read the arguments as to why hydrogen as a fuel in cars isn?t an undue hazard with interest but am not entirely convinced. Internal combustion engines achieve their power by a series of timed explosions in their cylinders and hydrogen gas must be sufficiently explosive to work. In the event of a crash, if the tank containing that fuel were to be ruptured it seems reasonable to expect that it would explode rather than do a slow burn. If the former occurred, the force would be distributed radially and anyone in range either above, below or to one side would feel it and could be showered with shrapnel from the tank too. If the latter, the heat of the flames would also radiate dangerously downwards if not quite as much as upwards and I wouldn?t want to be trapped in or under any vehicle so effected.
Of course any such fuel incurs risk but electric power derived from batteries must be the best way to go, if it can be developed sufficiently to overcome the problems of range and acceptable re-charge time.
Being a cyclist as well as a motorist, I hope it will become a requirement for electorally powered vehicles to emit a recognisable sound when on the road so that people like me are aware when they are approaching.
When I?m out on my bike along country lanes I always ding my bell to warn pedestrians in good time to move out of the way if they are spread across the road, or not to step into my path as I?m about to pass. Mostly they thank me as no-one likes being surprised by a cyclist passing close by even when there?s no risk but some glare as if they think I?m demanding that they ?get out of my way?.
I always try to keep to the Highway Code when out and don?t ride my bike in pedestrianised zones or disregard traffic lights. I followed a man on a bicycle down the A5 through Colindale yesterday who was sailing through red light after red light for a mile or so because in his judgement there was no risk of being hit by traffic from the side. He was wearing a Royal Mail jacket and I wished I could?ve identified him or confronted him but there was no opportunity. I hope that if there was a police officer about he/she would?ve pulled him over but there wasn?t. They were too busy in vans at one of the busy roundabouts further back on the lookout for any motorist who chanced to be caught crossing the line in that split second when amber changes to red, a scenario we all live in fear of.
Another thing that annoys me at this time of the year is the number of cars and vans driving in the dark with one headlight out, or those who at dusk don?t bother switching theirs on because they can still see the road ahead and forget that lights are also so they can be seen. It applies to cyclists too of course and the local paper when I was young often had reports of people being fined for riding a bike in the dark without lights but that was in the days when there were regular foot patrols of police round town and at night a lone officer could be seen trying shop doors to check they were locked, then sheltering in a doorway with their cape wrapped round them and a torch clipped to the front of it. You of my generation will remember the scene, I?m sure,
Geoff

> On 3 Nov 2021, at 17:28, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being mentioned as a viable option ).  The prospect of hydrogen creating a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on top.  Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon flame. 
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
> 
>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
>> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of the  needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.
>> The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.
>> It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
>> Geoff
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Geoff
>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ?
>>> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
>>> 
>>> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.
>>> 
>>> Chris Woolf
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.   
>>>> 
>>>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
>>>> 
>>>> B
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>   
>>>> 
>>>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote: 
>>>>>> ... 
>>>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
>>>>>> ..... 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Chris Woolf 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Nov  4 13:28:35 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 18:28:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <0652D4F5-EB01-4F5C-A0BC-729F1157BF79@gmail.com>
References: <0652D4F5-EB01-4F5C-A0BC-729F1157BF79@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06224B89-35C5-44C8-BC62-A429D9ABE874@me.com>

If you?re going to worry about safety after a crash, I?m not sure that any existing option is particularly safe.  Have you seen how electric cars can burn after a crash? They require astonishing quantities of water to extinguish them and can still spontaneously re-ignite once extinguished.

The bottom line is that any vehicle is going to require a highly concentrated source of energy to operate it.  Under controlled conditions, everything is fine, but when a crash happens, you don?t want to be anywhere near a source of concentrated energy.

Alan Taylor



> On 4 Nov 2021, at 18:17, Geoffrey Hawkes <geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I read the arguments as to why hydrogen as a fuel in cars isn?t an undue hazard with interest but am not entirely convinced. Internal combustion engines achieve their power by a series of timed explosions in their cylinders and hydrogen gas must be sufficiently explosive to work. In the event of a crash, if the tank containing that fuel were to be ruptured it seems reasonable to expect that it would explode rather than do a slow burn. If the former occurred, the force would be distributed radially and anyone in range either above, below or to one side would feel it and could be showered with shrapnel from the tank too. If the latter, the heat of the flames would also radiate dangerously downwards if not quite as much as upwards and I wouldn?t want to be trapped in or under any vehicle so effected.
> Of course any such fuel incurs risk but electric power derived from batteries must be the best way to go, if it can be developed sufficiently to overcome the problems of range and acceptable re-charge time.
> Being a cyclist as well as a motorist, I hope it will become a requirement for electorally powered vehicles to emit a recognisable sound when on the road so that people like me are aware when they are approaching.
> When I?m out on my bike along country lanes I always ding my bell to warn pedestrians in good time to move out of the way if they are spread across the road, or not to step into my path as I?m about to pass. Mostly they thank me as no-one likes being surprised by a cyclist passing close by even when there?s no risk but some glare as if they think I?m demanding that they ?get out of my way?.
> I always try to keep to the Highway Code when out and don?t ride my bike in pedestrianised zones or disregard traffic lights. I followed a man on a bicycle down the A5 through Colindale yesterday who was sailing through red light after red light for a mile or so because in his judgement there was no risk of being hit by traffic from the side. He was wearing a Royal Mail jacket and I wished I could?ve identified him or confronted him but there was no opportunity. I hope that if there was a police officer about he/she would?ve pulled him over but there wasn?t. They were too busy in vans at one of the busy roundabouts further back on the lookout for any motorist who chanced to be caught crossing the line in that split second when amber changes to red, a scenario we all live in fear of.
> Another thing that annoys me at this time of the year is the number of cars and vans driving in the dark with one headlight out, or those who at dusk don?t bother switching theirs on because they can still see the road ahead and forget that lights are also so they can be seen. It applies to cyclists too of course and the local paper when I was young often had reports of people being fined for riding a bike in the dark without lights but that was in the days when there were regular foot patrols of police round town and at night a lone officer could be seen trying shop doors to check they were locked, then sheltering in a doorway with their cape wrapped round them and a torch clipped to the front of it. You of my generation will remember the scene, I?m sure,
> Geoff
> 
>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 17:28, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being mentioned as a viable option ).  The prospect of hydrogen creating a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on top.  Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon flame. 
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ?The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
>>> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of the  needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.
>>> The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.
>>> It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
>>> Geoff
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Geoff
>>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
>>>> 
>>>> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.   
>>>>> 
>>>>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
>>>>> 
>>>>> B
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>   
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote: 
>>>>>>> ... 
>>>>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
>>>>>>> ..... 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris Woolf 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
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From gary_critcher at yahoo.com  Thu Nov  4 14:12:05 2021
From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 19:12:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <0652D4F5-EB01-4F5C-A0BC-729F1157BF79@gmail.com>
References: <8F871E8A-DD99-4DF0-8DEB-4F98DCF69F29@me.com>
	<0652D4F5-EB01-4F5C-A0BC-729F1157BF79@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <303395580.1264068.1636053125962@mail.yahoo.com>

 When I worked for Discovery at Chiswick I used to give a lift home to one of the other guys.? We came out one evening at 7.30pm and saw a guy on a pushbike go through FIVE red lights, almost without pause (Chiswick High Road/Chiswick Roundabout/Kew Bridge).? My mate was astounded, but I said that it didn't matter because very soon he'd be under a bus and there'd be one less for the rest of us to put up with.....







    On Thursday, 4 November 2021, 11:15:55 GMT-7, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:  I read the arguments as to why hydrogen as a fuel in cars isn?t an undue hazard with interest but am not entirely convinced. Internal combustion engines achieve their power by a series of timed explosions in their cylinders and hydrogen gas must be sufficiently explosive to work. In the event of a crash, if the tank containing that fuel were to be ruptured it seems reasonable to expect that it would explode rather than do a slow burn. If the former occurred, the force would be distributed radially and anyone in range either above, below or to one side would feel it and could be showered with shrapnel from the tank too. If the latter, the heat of the flames would also radiate dangerously downwards if not quite as much as upwards and I wouldn?t want to be trapped in or under any vehicle so effected.
Of course any such fuel incurs risk but electric power derived from batteries must be the best way to go, if it can be developed sufficiently to overcome the problems of range and acceptable re-charge time.Being a cyclist as well as a motorist, I hope it will become a requirement for electorally powered vehicles to emit a recognisable sound when on the road so that people like me are aware when they are approaching.When I?m out on my bike along country lanes I always ding my bell to warn pedestrians in good time to move out of the way if they are spread across the road, or not to step into my path as I?m about to pass. Mostly they thank me as no-one likes being surprised by a cyclist passing close by even when there?s no risk but some glare as if they think I?m demanding that they ?get out of my way?.I always try to keep to the Highway Code when out and don?t ride my bike in pedestrianised zones or disregard traffic lights. I followed a man on a bicycle down the A5 through Colindale yesterday who was sailing through red light after red light for a mile or so because in his judgement there was no risk of being hit by traffic from the side. He was wearing a Royal Mail jacket and I wished I could?ve identified him or confronted him but there was no opportunity. I hope that if there was a police officer about he/she would?ve pulled him over but there wasn?t. They were too busy in vans at one of the busy roundabouts further back on the lookout for any motorist who chanced to be caught crossing the line in that split second when amber changes to red, a scenario we all live in fear of.Another thing that annoys me at this time of the year is the number of cars and vans driving in the dark with one headlight out, or those who at dusk don?t bother switching theirs on because they can still see the road ahead and forget that lights are also so they can be seen. It applies to cyclists too of course and the local paper when I was young often had reports of people being fined for riding a bike in the dark without lights but that was in the days when there were regular foot patrols of police round town and at night a lone officer could be seen trying shop doors to check they were locked, then sheltering in a doorway with their cape wrapped round them and a torch clipped to the front of it. You of my generation will remember the scene, I?m sure,Geoff

On 3 Nov 2021, at 17:28, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:



?I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being mentioned as a viable option ). ?The prospect of hydrogen creating a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on top. ?Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon flame.?
Alan Taylor



On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:



? The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of the ?needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,Geoff


Geoff
On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:



? 
Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
 
 
The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.
 
Chris Woolf
 

 
 On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
  
 I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.?? 
 
 Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
 
 B
 
 
 
 ? 
 
 On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
  
 
 On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote: 
 
... 
 If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
 ..... 
 
 
 Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question. 
 
 Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments. 
 
 
 Chris Woolf 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 

|  | Virus-free. www.avast.com  |

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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Nov  4 14:51:28 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 19:51:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_for_heat_p?=
 =?utf-8?q?ump=2C_but_it_saved_us_NOTHING_=7C_Daily_Mail_Online?=
In-Reply-To: <303395580.1264068.1636053125962@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <303395580.1264068.1636053125962@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7A3177D5-D4DA-44FA-9CB9-AF20F7394153@me.com>

My wife and her colleagues at the hospital refer to that type of cyclist as organ donors.

Alan Taylor


> On 4 Nov 2021, at 19:12, Gary Critcher <gary_critcher at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> When I worked for Discovery at Chiswick I used to give a lift home to one of the other guys.
>   We came out one evening at 7.30pm and saw a guy on a pushbike go through FIVE red lights, almost without pause (Chiswick High Road/Chiswick Roundabout/Kew Bridge).
>   My mate was astounded, but I said that it didn't matter because very soon he'd be under a bus and there'd be one less for the rest of us to put up with.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thursday, 4 November 2021, 11:15:55 GMT-7, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> I read the arguments as to why hydrogen as a fuel in cars isn?t an undue hazard with interest but am not entirely convinced. Internal combustion engines achieve their power by a series of timed explosions in their cylinders and hydrogen gas must be sufficiently explosive to work. In the event of a crash, if the tank containing that fuel were to be ruptured it seems reasonable to expect that it would explode rather than do a slow burn. If the former occurred, the force would be distributed radially and anyone in range either above, below or to one side would feel it and could be showered with shrapnel from the tank too. If the latter, the heat of the flames would also radiate dangerously downwards if not quite as much as upwards and I wouldn?t want to be trapped in or under any vehicle so effected.
>> Of course any such fuel incurs risk but electric power derived from batteries must be the best way to go, if it can be developed sufficiently to overcome the problems of range and acceptable re-charge time.
>> Being a cyclist as well as a motorist, I hope it will become a requirement for electorally powered vehicles to emit a recognisable sound when on the road so that people like me are aware when they are approaching.
>> When I?m out on my bike along country lanes I always ding my bell to warn pedestrians in good time to move out of the way if they are spread across the road, or not to step into my path as I?m about to pass. Mostly they thank me as no-one likes being surprised by a cyclist passing close by even when there?s no risk but some glare as if they think I?m demanding that they ?get out of my way?.
>> I always try to keep to the Highway Code when out and don?t ride my bike in pedestrianised zones or disregard traffic lights. I followed a man on a bicycle down the A5 through Colindale yesterday who was sailing through red light after red light for a mile or so because in his judgement there was no risk of being hit by traffic from the side. He was wearing a Royal Mail jacket and I wished I could?ve identified him or confronted him but there was no opportunity. I hope that if there was a police officer about he/she would?ve pulled him over but there wasn?t. They were too busy in vans at one of the busy roundabouts further back on the lookout for any motorist who chanced to be caught crossing the line in that split second when amber changes to red, a scenario we all live in fear of.
>> Another thing that annoys me at this time of the year is the number of cars and vans driving in the dark with one headlight out, or those who at dusk don?t bother switching theirs on because they can still see the road ahead and forget that lights are also so they can be seen. It applies to cyclists too of course and the local paper when I was young often had reports of people being fined for riding a bike in the dark without lights but that was in the days when there were regular foot patrols of police round town and at night a lone officer could be seen trying shop doors to check they were locked, then sheltering in a doorway with their cape wrapped round them and a torch clipped to the front of it. You of my generation will remember the scene, I?m sure,
>> Geoff
>> 
>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 17:28, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being mentioned as a viable option ).  The prospect of hydrogen creating a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on top.  Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon flame. 
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ? The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
>>> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of the  needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.
>>> The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.
>>> It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
>>> Geoff
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Geoff
>>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
>>>> 
>>>> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.   
>>>>> 
>>>>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
>>>>> 
>>>>> B
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>   
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote: 
>>>>>>> ... 
>>>>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
>>>>>>> ..... 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris Woolf 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov  4 15:21:44 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 20:21:44 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC1 iPlayer
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB19815B0E165A46BA4BB7BC74A78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Is there any way to stop those annoying little iPlayer pop-ups near the end of progs on BBC1 and BBC2? They are intrusive and I don?t want them.
They?re there on Freesat and Freeview.
Cheers,
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  4 18:52:55 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 23:52:55 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Safety of Hydrogen as a source of power for motor
 vehicles
Message-ID: <005001d7d1d7$16846c30$438d4490$@gmail.com>

Hi Alan,

I?m not worried about that any more than I am about being seriously injured in a car crash of the sort that would lead to an explosion or fire and I try not to think about it when I?m driving. I am curious as to how hydrogen could be considered safe to power motor vehicles when it is so volatile and was banned from being used in airships following multiple and memorable disasters in the first half of the last century.

Of course it?s very different having a large volume of it carried in a comparatively fragile airship to its being stored in a strong pressurised container in a car.

However, it appears there are other risks involved too, electric shock being one of them as the gas is used in a fuel cell to generate electricity in some cases at voltages exceeding 350v to power the electric motor, when 50v is said to be sufficient to stop the human heart, though how great the risk of that is, I don?t know. Interestingly I found this comment on the internet from one person about problems with hydrogen as a fuel in vehicles, who wrote:

 

?I think it likely that tunnel and ferry operators would be very reluctant to allow dozens or hundreds of hydrogen powered vehicles, all carrying highly pressurised pure Hydrogen tanks, into their facilities. They get nervous when motor-homes, camper-vans and caravans carry relatively low pressure gas tanks onto ferries and into tunnels and have strict rules covering it. Anyone who has worked with pressurised Hydrogen will know that it readily leaks out of pressurised containers and adequate and active ventilation is needed anywhere such containers are stored.
While I think Hydrogen technology has an important part to play in our shift towards zero carbon fuel sources I?m less convinced by its use in vehicles, particularly small, personal transport such as cars and motorcycles. Larger vehicles such as HGVs, trains, ships are more suitable uses I believe.
The work carried out by JCB into the use of Hydrogen to directly power their large machinery is very interesting but the ever present issue of metal embrittlement caused by high pressure pure Hydrogen in close proximity to steel alloys, though alluded to in several papers and demonstrations I?ve see and read hasn?t yet been solved to my knowledge.
Piped transport of gaseous pure Hydrogen is very problematic for this and other reasons and is typically overcome by mixing it with other, more stable gases. The Hydrogen must then be separated from the other gases and re-pressurised before use in most cases, another cost and energy use consideration.
The piped Hydrogen / gas mix also has to be re-pressurised within the transport pipeline roughly every 100km due to the specific and rather peculiar properties of Hydrogen. All this adds to the costs and difficulties presented by a large scale shift towards Hydrogen use.
Interesting times!?

 

All this is pretty academic in my case as by the time my car needs replacing I may be ready or obliged to give up driving anyway, though I don?t like to anticipate that day and if not, a battery powered electric car would be my first choice,

Regards,

 

Geoff

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 04 November 2021 18:29
To: tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online

 

If you?re going to worry about safety after a crash, I?m not sure that any existing option is particularly safe.  Have you seen how electric cars can burn after a crash? They require astonishing quantities of water to extinguish them and can still spontaneously re-ignite once extinguished.

 

The bottom line is that any vehicle is going to require a highly concentrated source of energy to operate it.  Under controlled conditions, everything is fine, but when a crash happens, you don?t want to be anywhere near a source of concentrated energy.

 

Alan Taylor

 

 

 

On 4 Nov 2021, at 18:17, Geoffrey Hawkes <geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com> wrote:

?I read the arguments as to why hydrogen as a fuel in cars isn?t an undue hazard with interest but am not entirely convinced. Internal combustion engines achieve their power by a series of timed explosions in their cylinders and hydrogen gas must be sufficiently explosive to work. In the event of a crash, if the tank containing that fuel were to be ruptured it seems reasonable to expect that it would explode rather than do a slow burn. If the former occurred, the force would be distributed radially and anyone in range either above, below or to one side would feel it and could be showered with shrapnel from the tank too. If the latter, the heat of the flames would also radiate dangerously downwards if not quite as much as upwards and I wouldn?t want to be trapped in or under any vehicle so effected.

Of course any such fuel incurs risk but electric power derived from batteries must be the best way to go, if it can be developed sufficiently to overcome the problems of range and acceptable re-charge time.

Being a cyclist as well as a motorist, I hope it will become a requirement for electorally powered vehicles to emit a recognisable sound when on the road so that people like me are aware when they are approaching.

When I?m out on my bike along country lanes I always ding my bell to warn pedestrians in good time to move out of the way if they are spread across the road, or not to step into my path as I?m about to pass. Mostly they thank me as no-one likes being surprised by a cyclist passing close by even when there?s no risk but some glare as if they think I?m demanding that they ?get out of my way?.

I always try to keep to the Highway Code when out and don?t ride my bike in pedestrianised zones or disregard traffic lights. I followed a man on a bicycle down the A5 through Colindale yesterday who was sailing through red light after red light for a mile or so because in his judgement there was no risk of being hit by traffic from the side. He was wearing a Royal Mail jacket and I wished I could?ve identified him or confronted him but there was no opportunity. I hope that if there was a police officer about he/she would?ve pulled him over but there wasn?t. They were too busy in vans at one of the busy roundabouts further back on the lookout for any motorist who chanced to be caught crossing the line in that split second when amber changes to red, a scenario we all live in fear of.

Another thing that annoys me at this time of the year is the number of cars and vans driving in the dark with one headlight out, or those who at dusk don?t bother switching theirs on because they can still see the road ahead and forget that lights are also so they can be seen. It applies to cyclists too of course and the local paper when I was young often had reports of people being fined for riding a bike in the dark without lights but that was in the days when there were regular foot patrols of police round town and at night a lone officer could be seen trying shop doors to check they were locked, then sheltering in a doorway with their cape wrapped round them and a torch clipped to the front of it. You of my generation will remember the scene, I?m sure,

Geoff

 

On 3 Nov 2021, at 17:28, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being mentioned as a viable option ).  The prospect of hydrogen creating a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on top.  Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon flame. 

 

Alan Taylor

 

 

 

On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of the  needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.

The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.

It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,

Geoff

 

Geoff

On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? 

Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.

The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.

Chris Woolf

 

On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:

I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.   

Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.

B



  

On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:


On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote: 

... 
If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
..... 


Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question. 

Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments. 


Chris Woolf 







 


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From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Nov  4 19:03:57 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 00:03:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC1 iPlayer
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB19815B0E165A46BA4BB7BC74A78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAXP191MB19815B0E165A46BA4BB7BC74A78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <57407129-4DEF-4EAC-8E82-24771AC9095F@mac.com>

I find that I need aggravations like that to vent my spleen on, otherwise I might kick the cat! (Fortunately we don?t have a cat.)

My suppressed rant this evening was at the end of the much-vaunted but totally meaningless M & S Christmas advert, on which fortunes have no doubt been wasted, when the reverb on the closing musical phrase was chopped! Two seconds more would probably have sufficed, but no doubt that would have crossed a threshold into the next level of fees! And one of the sponsors on Channel 5, I think it was, is proud to support ?Christmas evenings on Channel 5?! I ask you - Christmas evenings in early November? Or even late November for that matter! I?m thinking of going to Skegness in January as it will clearly be almost summer by then!

My exclamation mark is in revolt at over-use, so I?ll gently fade away.?????

Mike G

> On 4 Nov 2021, at 20:22, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Is there any way to stop those annoying little iPlayer pop-ups near the end of progs on BBC1 and BBC2? They are intrusive and I don?t want them.
> They?re there on Freesat and Freeview.
> Cheers,
> N.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Nov  4 19:23:40 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 00:23:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Safety of Hydrogen as a source of power for motor
 vehicles
In-Reply-To: <005001d7d1d7$16846c30$438d4490$@gmail.com>
References: <005001d7d1d7$16846c30$438d4490$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7FD0D5AD-0572-4853-ABF4-AF169FFD8B74@mac.com>

How nice to hear of someone using a bell on a bike Geoff! Far too many cyclists using shared routes with pedestrians rely on the walkers? sixth sense and sensitive hearing to alert them of the imminent danger of being mown down. A particularly nasty accident near us recently left a pedestrian with life-changing injuries and the cyclist didn?t come off well either.  

Our PHEV emits a tuneful noise at low forward speeds and a very annoying beeping in reverse, (I bet the neighbours hate it if we get home after they are in bed) but when moving at reasonable speed, the tyre noise is quite sufficient and I wouldn?t rate it significantly quieter than a petrol engined car - a diesel may well be louder. 

On the hydrogen front, I will mention again the thing that Alan and I have both read, in that fuel tanks for hydrogen fuelled vehicles will probably not be hollow tanks like petrol tanks in IC vehicles, but may well be filled with a rigid, catalytic sponge-like material, which releases the hydrogen in a controlled manner. 

All the lights on timers are going off, so it must be time for bed!

Mike G


> On 4 Nov 2021, at 23:53, geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hi Alan,
> I?m not worried about that any more than I am about being seriously injured in a car crash of the sort that would lead to an explosion or fire and I try not to think about it when I?m driving. I am curious as to how hydrogen could be considered safe to power motor vehicles when it is so volatile and was banned from being used in airships following multiple and memorable disasters in the first half of the last century.
> Of course it?s very different having a large volume of it carried in a comparatively fragile airship to its being stored in a strong pressurised container in a car.
> However, it appears there are other risks involved too, electric shock being one of them as the gas is used in a fuel cell to generate electricity in some cases at voltages exceeding 350v to power the electric motor, when 50v is said to be sufficient to stop the human heart, though how great the risk of that is, I don?t know. Interestingly I found this comment on the internet from one person about problems with hydrogen as a fuel in vehicles, who wrote:
>  
> ?I think it likely that tunnel and ferry operators would be very reluctant to allow dozens or hundreds of hydrogen powered vehicles, all carrying highly pressurised pure Hydrogen tanks, into their facilities. They get nervous when motor-homes, camper-vans and caravans carry relatively low pressure gas tanks onto ferries and into tunnels and have strict rules covering it. Anyone who has worked with pressurised Hydrogen will know that it readily leaks out of pressurised containers and adequate and active ventilation is needed anywhere such containers are stored.
> While I think Hydrogen technology has an important part to play in our shift towards zero carbon fuel sources I?m less convinced by its use in vehicles, particularly small, personal transport such as cars and motorcycles. Larger vehicles such as HGVs, trains, ships are more suitable uses I believe.
> The work carried out by JCB into the use of Hydrogen to directly power their large machinery is very interesting but the ever present issue of metal embrittlement caused by high pressure pure Hydrogen in close proximity to steel alloys, though alluded to in several papers and demonstrations I?ve see and read hasn?t yet been solved to my knowledge.
> Piped transport of gaseous pure Hydrogen is very problematic for this and other reasons and is typically overcome by mixing it with other, more stable gases. The Hydrogen must then be separated from the other gases and re-pressurised before use in most cases, another cost and energy use consideration.
> The piped Hydrogen / gas mix also has to be re-pressurised within the transport pipeline roughly every 100km due to the specific and rather peculiar properties of Hydrogen. All this adds to the costs and difficulties presented by a large scale shift towards Hydrogen use.
> Interesting times!?
>  
> All this is pretty academic in my case as by the time my car needs replacing I may be ready or obliged to give up driving anyway, though I don?t like to anticipate that day and if not, a battery powered electric car would be my first choice,
> Regards,
>  
> Geoff
>  
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alan Taylor via Tech1
> Sent: 04 November 2021 18:29
> To: tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] We claimed ?70,000 in grants for heat pump, but it saved us NOTHING | Daily Mail Online
>  
> If you?re going to worry about safety after a crash, I?m not sure that any existing option is particularly safe.  Have you seen how electric cars can burn after a crash? They require astonishing quantities of water to extinguish them and can still spontaneously re-ignite once extinguished.
>  
> The bottom line is that any vehicle is going to require a highly concentrated source of energy to operate it.  Under controlled conditions, everything is fine, but when a crash happens, you don?t want to be anywhere near a source of concentrated energy.
>  
> Alan Taylor
>  
>  
>  
> 
> On 4 Nov 2021, at 18:17, Geoffrey Hawkes <geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I read the arguments as to why hydrogen as a fuel in cars isn?t an undue hazard with interest but am not entirely convinced. Internal combustion engines achieve their power by a series of timed explosions in their cylinders and hydrogen gas must be sufficiently explosive to work. In the event of a crash, if the tank containing that fuel were to be ruptured it seems reasonable to expect that it would explode rather than do a slow burn. If the former occurred, the force would be distributed radially and anyone in range either above, below or to one side would feel it and could be showered with shrapnel from the tank too. If the latter, the heat of the flames would also radiate dangerously downwards if not quite as much as upwards and I wouldn?t want to be trapped in or under any vehicle so effected.
> Of course any such fuel incurs risk but electric power derived from batteries must be the best way to go, if it can be developed sufficiently to overcome the problems of range and acceptable re-charge time.
> Being a cyclist as well as a motorist, I hope it will become a requirement for electorally powered vehicles to emit a recognisable sound when on the road so that people like me are aware when they are approaching.
> When I?m out on my bike along country lanes I always ding my bell to warn pedestrians in good time to move out of the way if they are spread across the road, or not to step into my path as I?m about to pass. Mostly they thank me as no-one likes being surprised by a cyclist passing close by even when there?s no risk but some glare as if they think I?m demanding that they ?get out of my way?.
> I always try to keep to the Highway Code when out and don?t ride my bike in pedestrianised zones or disregard traffic lights. I followed a man on a bicycle down the A5 through Colindale yesterday who was sailing through red light after red light for a mile or so because in his judgement there was no risk of being hit by traffic from the side. He was wearing a Royal Mail jacket and I wished I could?ve identified him or confronted him but there was no opportunity. I hope that if there was a police officer about he/she would?ve pulled him over but there wasn?t. They were too busy in vans at one of the busy roundabouts further back on the lookout for any motorist who chanced to be caught crossing the line in that split second when amber changes to red, a scenario we all live in fear of.
> Another thing that annoys me at this time of the year is the number of cars and vans driving in the dark with one headlight out, or those who at dusk don?t bother switching theirs on because they can still see the road ahead and forget that lights are also so they can be seen. It applies to cyclists too of course and the local paper when I was young often had reports of people being fined for riding a bike in the dark without lights but that was in the days when there were regular foot patrols of police round town and at night a lone officer could be seen trying shop doors to check they were locked, then sheltering in a doorway with their cape wrapped round them and a torch clipped to the front of it. You of my generation will remember the scene, I?m sure,
> Geoff
>  
> 
> On 3 Nov 2021, at 17:28, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars ( the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being mentioned as a viable option ).  The prospect of hydrogen creating a Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on top.  Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen flame sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon flame. 
>  
> Alan Taylor
>  
>  
>  
> 
> On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to the environment.?
> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of the  needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.
> The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.
> It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
> Geoff
>  
> 
> Geoff
> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
> 
> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
>  
> 
> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.   
> 
> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
> 
> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
> 
> ... 
> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a second industrial revolution 
> .....
> 
> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply without having to worry about where and how the disposal is carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to the point where survivability is in question. 
> 
> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug that off onto future governments. 
> 
> 
> Chris Woolf 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Nov  4 19:36:43 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 00:36:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cyclists
In-Reply-To: <7A3177D5-D4DA-44FA-9CB9-AF20F7394153@me.com>
References: <303395580.1264068.1636053125962@mail.yahoo.com>
	<7A3177D5-D4DA-44FA-9CB9-AF20F7394153@me.com>
Message-ID: <6f239228-a4aa-5760-1ba1-91c9c7c5c853@btinternet.com>

In my way home tonight, from my weekly meet-up with ex-OB colleagues, on 
the darkest piece of road I vaguely thought I saw a shape on my near 
side, and indeed, it was a cyclist in dark clothing on a bicycle with no 
lights front or back, i.e. virtually invisible in the darkness. Luckily 
for him I managed to avoid hitting him but there goes an accident 
waiting to happen! Cheers, Dave

On 04/11/2021 19:51, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> My wife and her colleagues at the hospital refer to that type of 
> cyclist as organ donors.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>> On 4 Nov 2021, at 19:12, Gary Critcher <gary_critcher at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> When I worked for Discovery at Chiswick I used to give a lift home to 
>> one of the other guys.
>> ? We came out one evening at 7.30pm and saw a guy on a pushbike go 
>> through FIVE red lights, almost without pause (Chiswick High 
>> Road/Chiswick Roundabout/Kew Bridge).
>> ? My mate was astounded, but I said that it didn't matter because 
>> very soon he'd be under a bus and there'd be one less for the rest of 
>> us to put up with.....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, 4 November 2021, 11:15:55 GMT-7, Geoffrey Hawkes via 
>> Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> I read the arguments as to why hydrogen as a fuel in cars isn?t an 
>> undue hazard with interest but am not entirely convinced. Internal 
>> combustion engines achieve their power by a series of timed 
>> explosions in their cylinders and hydrogen gas must be sufficiently 
>> explosive to work. In the event of a crash, if the tank containing 
>> that fuel were to be ruptured it seems reasonable to expect that it 
>> would explode rather than do a slow burn. If the former occurred, the 
>> force would be distributed radially and anyone in range either above, 
>> below or to one side would feel it and could be showered with 
>> shrapnel from the tank too. If the latter, the heat of the flames 
>> would also radiate dangerously downwards if not quite as much as 
>> upwards and I wouldn?t want to be trapped in or under any vehicle so 
>> effected.
>> Of course any such fuel incurs risk but electric power derived from 
>> batteries must be the best way to go, if it can be developed 
>> sufficiently to overcome the problems of range and acceptable 
>> re-charge time.
>> Being a cyclist as well as a motorist, I hope it will become a 
>> requirement for electorally powered vehicles to emit a recognisable 
>> sound when on the road so that people like me are aware when they are 
>> approaching.
>> When I?m out on my bike along country lanes I always ding my bell to 
>> warn pedestrians in good time to move out of the way if they are 
>> spread across the road, or not to step into my path as I?m about to 
>> pass. Mostly they thank me as no-one likes being surprised by a 
>> cyclist passing close by even when there?s no risk but some glare as 
>> if they think I?m demanding that they ?get out of my way?.
>> I always try to keep to the Highway Code when out and don?t ride my 
>> bike in pedestrianised zones or disregard traffic lights. I followed 
>> a man on a bicycle down the A5 through Colindale yesterday who was 
>> sailing through red light after red light for a mile or so because in 
>> his judgement there was no risk of being hit by traffic from the 
>> side. He was wearing a Royal Mail jacket and I wished I could?ve 
>> identified him or confronted him but there was no opportunity. I hope 
>> that if there was a police officer about he/she would?ve pulled him 
>> over but there wasn?t. They were too busy in vans at one of the busy 
>> roundabouts further back on the lookout for any motorist who chanced 
>> to be caught crossing the line in that split second when amber 
>> changes to red, a scenario we all live in fear of.
>> Another thing that annoys me at this time of the year is the number 
>> of cars and vans driving in the dark with one headlight out, or those 
>> who at dusk don?t bother switching theirs on because they can still 
>> see the road ahead and forget that lights are also so they can be 
>> seen. It applies to cyclists too of course and the local paper when I 
>> was young often had reports of people being fined for riding a bike 
>> in the dark without lights but that was in the days when there were 
>> regular foot patrols of police round town and at night a lone officer 
>> could be seen trying shop doors to check they were locked, then 
>> sheltering in a doorway with their cape wrapped round them and a 
>> torch clipped to the front of it. You of my generation will remember 
>> the scene, I?m sure,
>> Geoff
>>
>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 17:28, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> I once did a show where they were discussing future fuels for cars ( 
>>> the show was so long ago that I don?t recall electricity being 
>>> mentioned as a viable option ). ?The prospect of hydrogen creating a 
>>> Hindenburg type of fire after a crash was mentioned, but it was 
>>> argued that hydrogen rises and burns above you, while spilt petrol 
>>> or lpg will form a puddle beneath you and then ignite with you on 
>>> top. ?Of the two undesirable options, being beneath a hydrogen flame 
>>> sounded like a better prospect than being above a hydrocarbon flame.
>>>
>>> Alan Taylor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 16:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 
>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ? The idea of anyone driving around in motorised vehicles with a 
>>>> pressurised tank of hydrogen worries me as while I?m not old enough 
>>>> to have direct memories of the spectacular and tragic airships 
>>>> crashing in a ball of flame, I saw enough pictures in books of them 
>>>> when I was a child. A tankful of petrol, diesel or LPG makes for a 
>>>> nasty incendiary device to be carrying around too but somehow not 
>>>> quite as explosive. I don?t know how the designers will allow for 
>>>> that or the safety of everyone at filling stations. Ammonia ?while 
>>>> not directly harmful to humans and mammals as they have a mechanism 
>>>> to prevent its buildup in the bloodstream, fish and amphibians lack 
>>>> this mechanism and for this reason it is classified as dangerous to 
>>>> the environment.?
>>>> The conversion of ammonia to hydrogen sounds laborious and not very 
>>>> efficient or appealing to me either. Who knows what the ultimate 
>>>> answer is and sadly commercial interest may drive us in completely 
>>>> the wrong direction as I am confident is the case from my 
>>>> observations as one living in the shadow of the valley of HS2 of 
>>>> the ?needless devastation to the rural countryside, needless 
>>>> because anyone can see what a white elephant it is in an age where 
>>>> improvements to electronic communication renders minimal the need 
>>>> for people to travel for business purposes, especially when the 
>>>> time savings of such a line are counted in minutes. Think of the 
>>>> high count of casualties in potential crashes too, with the vastly 
>>>> increased time needed to bring these trains to a stand if an 
>>>> unforeseen hazard lies ahead, as with the incident on Sunday - and 
>>>> don?t say it won?t happen as there are enough mad evil-doers out 
>>>> there who I wouldn?t trust not to make it their business, if 
>>>> nothing else as an act of revenge that their protests at its 
>>>> construction are being summarily fought off by the vast army of 
>>>> security people along the hotspots of their encampment near Wendover.
>>>> The fanciful idea of tele-transportation Star Trek style could 
>>>> never happen either any more than rendering anyone or thing invisible.
>>>> It?s been a fascinating debate on the fuel alternatives from those 
>>>> of you with greater knowledge and intellect from me and perhaps 
>>>> there?s a much needed place for you in Glasgow,
>>>> Geoff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Geoff
>>>>> On 3 Nov 2021, at 14:20, Chris Woolf via Tech1 
>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ammonia is indeed a good "Hydrogen" fuel, and has a lot going for 
>>>>> it. The biggest problem is that it is a bit toxic as a gas. But it 
>>>>> does work well from the point of view of fast refuelling etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> The JCB experiments have been interesting because they thought 
>>>>> they could use a fuel cell - turns out that these just aren't 
>>>>> robust enough for use in construction vehicles. They now aim to 
>>>>> use a modified IC engine to burn H. That certainly works, though 
>>>>> keeping N oxides down takes a little fiddling with. Hydrogen 
>>>>> definitely has a future as a portable fuel, even though it isn't 
>>>>> quite as energy density efficient (when considered with the 
>>>>> pressure tank) as diesel. The trickiest bit is likely to be how 
>>>>> they supply the hydrogen on site. A tank of high pressure hydrogen 
>>>>> and the refuelling equipment needed are a lot more difficult to do 
>>>>> than a gravity fed diesel tank on a pile of concrete blocks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 03/11/2021 11:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>> I've just been reading about how JCB are working on a hydrogen 
>>>>>> engine to power their machinery, with some success. As the boss, 
>>>>>> Anthony Bamford, says, recharging the battery on a digger or 
>>>>>> combine in the middle of a field just isn't going to happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Something I didn't know is that a technology people are working 
>>>>>> on is changing hydrogen into ammonia for transport, then cracking 
>>>>>> it at the destination. So you can use electrolysis at night near 
>>>>>> your wind farm or SNR which is being under used, make ammonia, 
>>>>>> deliver to the farm or motorway refuelling point, fill with 
>>>>>> hydrogen. If JCB - and presumably lots of other companies - are 
>>>>>> working on this maybe it's a sensible solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> B
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 03/11/2021 09:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 02/11/2021 22:39, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> If they left it to industry and the market we might have a 
>>>>>>>> second industrial revolution
>>>>>>>> .....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sadly, leaving things to the market is exactly what has got us 
>>>>>>> into the current position. The freedom to charge for the supply 
>>>>>>> without having to worry about where and how the disposal is 
>>>>>>> carried out, is what has polluted the planet (and now space) to 
>>>>>>> the point where survivability is in question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nuclear power is still in that position - it doesn't count or 
>>>>>>> cost the disposal of fuel or installations, because it can shrug 
>>>>>>> that off onto future governments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>>>>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
>> <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Fri Nov  5 02:52:36 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 07:52:36 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Safety of Hydrogen as a source of power for motor
 vehicles
In-Reply-To: <7FD0D5AD-0572-4853-ABF4-AF169FFD8B74@mac.com>
References: <005001d7d1d7$16846c30$438d4490$@gmail.com>
	<7FD0D5AD-0572-4853-ABF4-AF169FFD8B74@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1E557040F390439DB91464EABBFF67CB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Amen to the lament about cycle bells being out of fashion. A particular cause for concern  arises from most canal towpaths now being designated for cycle use and it has become the norm to endure several near misses as the price of an otherwise peaceful canal-side walk.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Mike Giles via Tech1 
Sent: Friday, November 5, 2021 12:23 AM
To: Tech Ops 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Safety of Hydrogen as a source of power for motor vehicles

How nice to hear of someone using a bell on a bike Geoff! Far too many cyclists using shared routes with pedestrians rely on the walkers? sixth sense and sensitive hearing to alert them of the imminent danger of being mown down. A particularly nasty accident near us recently left a pedestrian with life-changing injuries and the cyclist didn?t come off well either.  

Our PHEV emits a tuneful noise at low forward speeds and a very annoying beeping in reverse, (I bet the neighbours hate it if we get home after they are in bed) but when moving at reasonable speed, the tyre noise is quite sufficient and I wouldn?t rate it significantly quieter than a petrol engined car - a diesel may well be louder. 

On the hydrogen front, I will mention again the thing that Alan and I have both read, in that fuel tanks for hydrogen fuelled vehicles will probably not be hollow tanks like petrol tanks in IC vehicles, but may well be filled with a rigid, catalytic sponge-like material, which releases the hydrogen in a controlled manner. 

All the lights on timers are going off, so it must be time for bed!

Mike G


 
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Nov  5 04:25:42 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 09:25:42 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC1 iPlayer
In-Reply-To: <57407129-4DEF-4EAC-8E82-24771AC9095F@mac.com>
References: <PAXP191MB19815B0E165A46BA4BB7BC74A78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<57407129-4DEF-4EAC-8E82-24771AC9095F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6184f897.1c69fb81.275bf.d741@mx.google.com>

There is no sensitivity or pride exhibited anymore with the presentation of programmes. Just prevent viewers changing channels to keep them watching the revenue producing adverts. Didn?t Tony Hall promised to stop the credits being shrunk, or talked over(?), but it is still happening. This disease has spread to every channel, and continues to be a source of irritation. A good friend simply refuses to watch any channel that carries commercials, and I'm beginning to share his displeasure ? I?m tired of seeing the same ads for mattress testing and exercise bikes appearing on every break!

Pat
(saddened by the demise of ?grumpy? cat!).



Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Mike Giles via Tech1
Sent: 05 November 2021 00:04
To: Tech Ops
Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC1 iPlayer

I find that I need aggravations like that to vent my spleen on, otherwise I might kick the cat! (Fortunately we don?t have a cat.)

My suppressed rant this evening was at the end of the much-vaunted but totally meaningless M & S Christmas advert, on which fortunes have no doubt been wasted, when the reverb on the closing musical phrase was chopped! Two seconds more would probably have sufficed, but no doubt that would have crossed a threshold into the next level of fees! 



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From mibridge at mac.com  Fri Nov  5 04:45:00 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 09:45:00 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC1 iPlayer
In-Reply-To: <6184f897.1c69fb81.275bf.d741@mx.google.com>
References: <6184f897.1c69fb81.275bf.d741@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <C8073609-E2DA-400B-AAA0-3A8023C9357A@mac.com>

But without adverts, when would you go for a pee, Pat? What still gets my goat, though, is that Jo Public still sees all the commercial channels as being free - who do they think provides the money for the advertisers to spend?  And it?s very galling that on many occasions not much on the main channels grabs our mutual attention, so we often end up watching old dramas, which is quite stimulating in its own way, because we can try to remember the outcome, which in turn leads to ?discussion?! It?s equally surprising how many plots we can recall in significant detail and how many we can?t remember a thing!

Mike G

> On 5 Nov 2021, at 09:26, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> There is no sensitivity or pride exhibited anymore with the presentation of programmes. Just prevent viewers changing channels to keep them watching the revenue producing adverts. Didn?t Tony Hall promised to stop the credits being shrunk, or talked over(?), but it is still happening. This disease has spread to every channel, and continues to be a source of irritation. A good friend simply refuses to watch any channel that carries commercials, and I'm beginning to share his displeasure ? I?m tired of seeing the same ads for mattress testing and exercise bikes appearing on every break!
>  
> Pat
> (saddened by the demise of ?grumpy? cat!).
>  
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> From: Mike Giles via Tech1
> Sent: 05 November 2021 00:04
> To: Tech Ops
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC1 iPlayer
>  
> I find that I need aggravations like that to vent my spleen on, otherwise I might kick the cat! (Fortunately we don?t have a cat.)
>  
> My suppressed rant this evening was at the end of the much-vaunted but totally meaningless M & S Christmas advert, on which fortunes have no doubt been wasted, when the reverb on the closing musical phrase was chopped! Two seconds more would probably have sufficed, but no doubt that would have crossed a threshold into the next level of fees!
>  
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Fri Nov  5 05:10:35 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:10:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC1 iPlayer
In-Reply-To: <6184f897.1c69fb81.275bf.d741@mx.google.com>
References: <PAXP191MB19815B0E165A46BA4BB7BC74A78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<57407129-4DEF-4EAC-8E82-24771AC9095F@mac.com>
	<6184f897.1c69fb81.275bf.d741@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <9ab11c2e-69e2-63a7-c0a0-6427f68a20be@btinternet.com>

Very simple, Pat. Get a Humax PVR. Record the prog - you can start 
watching it say half an hour after you start the recording which will 
allow for all the ads in a 2 hour prog, and use the skip setting on 
playback.

On 05/11/2021 09:25, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> There is no sensitivity or pride exhibited anymore with the 
> presentation of programmes. Just prevent viewers changing channels to 
> keep them watching the revenue producing adverts. Didn?t Tony Hall 
> promised to stop the credits being shrunk, or talked over(?), but it 
> is still happening. This disease has spread to every channel, and 
> continues to be a source of irritation. A good friend simply refuses 
> to watch any channel that carries commercials, and I'm beginning to 
> share his displeasure ? I?m tired of seeing the same ads for mattress 
> testing and exercise bikes appearing on every break!
>
> Pat
>
> (saddened by the demise of ?grumpy? cat!).
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows
>
> *From: *Mike Giles via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *05 November 2021 00:04
> *To: *Tech Ops <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] BBC1 iPlayer
>
> I find that I need aggravations like that to vent my spleen on, 
> otherwise I might kick the cat! (Fortunately we don?t have a cat.)
>
> My suppressed rant this evening was at the end of the much-vaunted but 
> totally meaningless M & S Christmas advert, on which fortunes have no 
> doubt been wasted, when the reverb on the closing musical phrase was 
> chopped! Two seconds more would probably have sufficed, but no doubt 
> that would have crossed a threshold into the next level of fees!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Nov  5 05:18:28 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:18:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC1 iPlayer
In-Reply-To: <C8073609-E2DA-400B-AAA0-3A8023C9357A@mac.com>
References: <6184f897.1c69fb81.275bf.d741@mx.google.com>
	<C8073609-E2DA-400B-AAA0-3A8023C9357A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <618504f4.1c69fb81.b7d1c.2590@mx.google.com>

Very good point, Mike, but I don?t mind missing a bit if it means I?m comfortable!
Last night I was watching a repeat of the programme about the Orient Express, a trip which I would love to undertake. But there is only one loo at the end of each coach ? having to relieve myself at least twice a night, I realise that it would not suit me, sadly, in spite of the fact that with my increasing age, I could actually afford it!
Here?s a little tale, when on Fiddler on the Roof:
One evening (or early morning, about 2 a.m.!) I was wending my way back to the hotel after a good night out in Zagreb, in the former Yugoslavia where we were based. The route passed under the railway bridge, close to the train station. As I approached, I could hear the quiet tolling of a train bell, and on looking up, I could see a magnificent steam engine pulling in to the station. To my delight, the carriage boards read: ?Orient Express Paris-Simplon-Istanbul? For a moment I wanted to hop on board, but wondered if the unit would miss me on set in the morning!
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Mike Giles via Tech1
Sent: 05 November 2021 09:45
To: Tech Ops
Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC1 iPlayer

But without adverts, when would you go for a pee, Pat? What still gets my goat, though, is that Jo Public still sees all the commercial channels as being free - who do they think provides the money for the advertisers to spend? ?And it?s very galling that on many occasions not much on the main channels grabs our mutual attention, so we often end up watching old dramas, which is quite stimulating in its own way, because we can try to remember the outcome, which in turn leads to ?discussion?! It?s equally surprising how many plots we can recall in significant detail and how many we can?t remember a thing!

Mike G


On 5 Nov 2021, at 09:26, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
?
There is no sensitivity or pride exhibited anymore with the presentation of programmes. Just prevent viewers changing channels to keep them watching the revenue producing adverts. Didn?t Tony Hall promised to stop the credits being shrunk, or talked over(?), but it is still happening. This disease has spread to every channel, and continues to be a source of irritation. A good friend simply refuses to watch any channel that carries commercials, and I'm beginning to share his displeasure ? I?m tired of seeing the same ads for mattress testing and exercise bikes appearing on every break!
?
Pat
(saddened by the demise of ?grumpy? cat!).
?
?
?



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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Nov  5 05:24:22 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:24:22 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC1 iPlayer
In-Reply-To: <9ab11c2e-69e2-63a7-c0a0-6427f68a20be@btinternet.com>
References: <PAXP191MB19815B0E165A46BA4BB7BC74A78D9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<57407129-4DEF-4EAC-8E82-24771AC9095F@mac.com>
	<6184f897.1c69fb81.275bf.d741@mx.google.com>
	<9ab11c2e-69e2-63a7-c0a0-6427f68a20be@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <61850656.1c69fb81.90ea7.9fb3@mx.google.com>

Thanks, Dave.
I do practice that with a standard DVD recorder. If there?s a programme that I think my friend would appreciate ? record to its hard drive then assemble a ?play list? by editing out the commercials and send him a DVD.
His wife can do that too, with a BT box.

Snag is that there is a dearth of programmes worth viewing, let alone recording!

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 05 November 2021 10:10
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC1 iPlayer

Very simple, Pat. Get a Humax PVR. Record the prog - you can start watching it say half an hour after you start the recording which will allow for all the ads in a 2 hour prog, and use the skip setting on playback.
On 05/11/2021 09:25, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
There is no sensitivity or pride exhibited anymore with the presentation of programmes. Just prevent viewers changing channels to keep them watching the revenue producing adverts. Didn?t Tony Hall promised to stop the credits being shrunk, or talked over(?), but it is still happening. This disease has spread to every channel, and continues to be a source of irritation. A good friend simply refuses to watch any channel that carries commercials, and I'm beginning to share his displeasure ? I?m tired of seeing the same ads for mattress testing and exercise bikes appearing on every break!
?
Pat
(saddened by the demise of ?grumpy? cat!).
?
?
?



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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 05:30:31 2021
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:30:31 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 
 =?utf-8?q?was_-_We_claimed_=C2=A370=2C000_in_grants_-_bu?=
 =?utf-8?q?t_no_longer?=
In-Reply-To: <0652D4F5-EB01-4F5C-A0BC-729F1157BF79@gmail.com>
References: <8F871E8A-DD99-4DF0-8DEB-4F98DCF69F29@me.com>
	<0652D4F5-EB01-4F5C-A0BC-729F1157BF79@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <88f68d4d-5362-d2a5-a2f7-44d626ebfeeb@gmail.com>

Hi all

On 04/11/2021 18:15, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote:
> Being a cyclist as well as a motorist, I hope it will become a 
> requirement for electorally powered vehicles to emit a recognisable 
> sound when on the road so that people like me are aware when they are 
> approaching.

Oh dear!? Obviously? Geoff did not grow up in a town with trolley 
buses!!? They would sneak up behind you when you were cycling, and a 
large bus right behind you can be unnerving. The answer?? A MIRROR!!!?? 
(Curiously, I have not seen a mirror on a bike for many a year!)

-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502

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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 05:37:10 2021
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:37:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Early Colour Television
Message-ID: <e1b09b69-28cb-c5ca-8079-9f3cd47a3820@gmail.com>

Hi all,

Currently I am custodian of a 5 inch gauge model of "Lion", aka "The 
Titchfield Thunderbolt" .? I started looking through old editions of 
"The Model Engineer" to try to find LBSC's description of the build, and 
plans for, this locomotive, and I came across this...


Early colour tv


Apologies for the curves - photo not flatbed scanner...

Sadly, don't have access at the moment to the article referred to, but 
seems to be an early report of colour TV in the UK.

-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502

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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Fri Nov  5 05:50:03 2021
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 10:50:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Evesham tech ops course.
In-Reply-To: <DB9PR08MB70494BB884464D1B840CC02FD08D9@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DB9PR08MB70494BB884464D1B840CC02FD08D9@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1404991261.472182.1636109403306@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Nov  5 06:08:25 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 11:08:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New ageing topic!
Message-ID: <618510aa.1c69fb81.f3a32.ecb9@mx.google.com>

For discussion, or additions:

You realise that you are old, when:
? You do not recognise any of the ?celebrities? on the special versions of quiz shows.
? You have to sit down to put on your socks and pants.
? You are grateful for the stairlift that your neighbour installed on the communal stairs.
? The cashier doesn?t ask your age when buying booze.
? You have to get up in the night more than once.
? You don?t behave like a boy racer in your sports saloon.
? Your knees remind you that you are no longer a teenager.
? Your friends (or you) have grandchildren!
? You wish you were younger to undertake all the trips that you can now afford.


I?m sure that you can think of and add.....

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows



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From waresound at msn.com  Fri Nov  5 06:43:10 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 11:43:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New ageing topic!
In-Reply-To: <618510aa.1c69fb81.f3a32.ecb9@mx.google.com>
References: <618510aa.1c69fb81.f3a32.ecb9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB19819FC86ECEF06618592D63A78E9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

No, no, Pat. There?s more to life than sitting around vegetating and dwelling on the past and old age.
Do yourself and others a favour. Think about what?s around you NOW, get out more, do things, make things, mend things, upcycle things, chuck out old clutter from the past that you don?t need.
I think it?s sad that some people?s heads are so full of the past that they can?t see the present, never mind the future.
Let?s hear from some of the younger TechOpsers, not just the same old all the time.
Be youthful, be inspired!!
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 5 Nov 2021, at 11:09, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
For discussion, or additions:

You realise that you are old, when:

  *   You do not recognise any of the ?celebrities? on the special versions of quiz shows.
  *   You have to sit down to put on your socks and pants.
  *   You are grateful for the stairlift that your neighbour installed on the communal stairs.
  *   The cashier doesn?t ask your age when buying booze.
  *   You have to get up in the night more than once.
  *   You don?t behave like a boy racer in your sports saloon.
  *   Your knees remind you that you are no longer a teenager.
  *   Your friends (or you) have grandchildren!
  *   You wish you were younger to undertake all the trips that you can now afford.



I?m sure that you can think of and add.....

Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows



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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Nov  5 14:07:41 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 19:07:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pat's silly season
Message-ID: <618580fd.1c69fb81.13f8d.742a@mx.google.com>

There?s an old chestnut joke concerning an Irishman (it?s OK I?m part Irish meself, so I am allowed to mock).
This Irish bloke finds the crock of gold at the end of the rainbow and the leprechaun says he?s entitled to three wishes.
First one: A never ending glass of Guinness. Pouff! There it was, sure enough when drained, it was refilled.
The leprechaun asked him what he wanted for his next two wishes. ?Sure, I?ll have two more of those!?

So this is the quest: What, if you had three wishes would you wish for?
Come on, have a go!

Pat
(one of mine would be to be able to speak multiple languages).


Sent from Mail for Windows



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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Fri Nov  5 15:19:07 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 20:19:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pat's silly season
In-Reply-To: <618580fd.1c69fb81.13f8d.742a@mx.google.com>
References: <618580fd.1c69fb81.13f8d.742a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <3CE620A0-70D1-4C95-846E-785E44770B8C@icloud.com>

I?d certainly go with multiple languages, English for a start! 
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 5 Nov 2021, at 19:07, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> There?s an old chestnut joke concerning an Irishman (it?s OK I?m part Irish meself, so I am allowed to mock).
> This Irish bloke finds the crock of gold at the end of the rainbow and the leprechaun says he?s entitled to three wishes.
> First one: A never ending glass of Guinness. Pouff! There it was, sure enough when drained, it was refilled.
> The leprechaun asked him what he wanted for his next two wishes. ?Sure, I?ll have two more of those!?
>  
> So this is the quest: What, if you had three wishes would you wish for?
> Come on, have a go!
>  
> Pat
> (one of mine would be to be able to speak multiple languages).
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> 
> 
> 	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From jccglass at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 15:40:26 2021
From: jccglass at gmail.com (Chris on gmail)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 20:40:26 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pat's silly season
References: <618580fd.1c69fb81.13f8d.742a@mx.google.com>
	<3CE620A0-70D1-4C95-846E-785E44770B8C@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <D4F0E70E20D946BAB670355115504FD3@dell9100>

3 Wishes
 Happyness Happyness Happyness


From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Fri Nov  5 15:53:10 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 20:53:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pat's silly season
In-Reply-To: <D4F0E70E20D946BAB670355115504FD3@dell9100>
References: <618580fd.1c69fb81.13f8d.742a@mx.google.com>
	<3CE620A0-70D1-4C95-846E-785E44770B8C@icloud.com>
	<D4F0E70E20D946BAB670355115504FD3@dell9100>
Message-ID: <B2991B54-1989-45EF-8569-78A004B9082D@icloud.com>

You are Ken Dodd and I claim my five pounds.
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 5 Nov 2021, at 20:40, Chris on gmail via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 3 Wishes
> Happyness Happyness Happyness
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Nov  5 17:08:35 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 22:08:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
Message-ID: <6185ab63.1c69fb81.36de0.4811@mx.google.com>

Did anyone else notice how woolly the sound was on ?Have I Got News for you? BBC1 05/11.
I normally listen with a Bose Soundlink off my Samsung TV.
Switching to Sennheiser headphones ? no better, so tested the audio chain by playing a CD which goes into the TV via a Sony DVD/CD player. Sounded good ? it was an Xavier Cugat Latin American 1958, with lots of hf instruments ? all sounded good, so I don?t think it was my ears!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows



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From mibridge at mac.com  Fri Nov  5 17:12:24 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (M E GILES)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 22:12:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC1 iPlayer
In-Reply-To: <8913D6E6-D5F6-470D-AF5E-DC4C0A45AEBA@sky.com>
References: <C8073609-E2DA-400B-AAA0-3A8023C9357A@mac.com>
	<8913D6E6-D5F6-470D-AF5E-DC4C0A45AEBA@sky.com>
Message-ID: <04194687-9863-491A-9D95-22192F18A387@mac.com>

I can pause live TV on our set regardless of which channel we are watching, I merely had to insert a USB memory stick. Not quite as useful as a separate PVR, but this also allows recording of what you are watching.

Mike G

> On 5 Nov 2021, at 12:38, B Wilkinson <barry-wilkinson at sky.com> wrote:
> 
> If you have Sky you have many more options such as pausing live programmes, watching on catchup removes the adverts and sky movies is advert free all the way through. I am a bit of a TV/ movie addict so even though the full sky package is not cheap I find it good value at the same cost of a decent meal out for two including wine per month. I also get live Formula One coverage and I am  now getting into international cricket. I can live totally without soccer but the subscription set up makes it hard to ditch just that coverage, you lose other stuff as well.
> Sadly I also buy 4K discs of movies for ultimate picture and sound quality. Again a bit expensive but with my home cinema set up the quality easily matches all local cinemas without the cost of travelling, parking and sitting next to snivelling peasants( ???) 
> It also gives you the pause facility for pee breaks . I often watch some movies two or three times and forget how the plot goes , the ending or with a movie like Tenet try and understand what it is all about!
> Did I mention that on sky you can record up to 6 simultaneous programmes? That seems unnecessary until you realise that a lot of the good programmes all go out at similar times ( 2000 to 2300 ) 
> I do not work for Sky sales and probably should get out more but I am a grumpy old bugger and have very few friends I could enjoy going out with for a ? Pint? in the evenings, and am definitely not on Facebook with two million ? Friends?.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 5 Nov 2021, at 12:19, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> But without adverts, when would you go for a pee, Pat? What still gets my goat, though, is that Jo Public still sees all the commercial channels as being free - who do they think provides the money for the advertisers to spend?  And it?s very galling that on many occasions not much on the main channels grabs our mutual attention, so we often end up watching old dramas, which is quite stimulating in its own way, because we can try to remember the outcome, which in turn leads to ?discussion?! It?s equally surprising how many plots we can recall in significant detail and how many we can?t remember a thing!
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>>> On 5 Nov 2021, at 09:26, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> There is no sensitivity or pride exhibited anymore with the presentation of programmes. Just prevent viewers changing channels to keep them watching the revenue producing adverts. Didn?t Tony Hall promised to stop the credits being shrunk, or talked over(?), but it is still happening. This disease has spread to every channel, and continues to be a source of irritation. A good friend simply refuses to watch any channel that carries commercials, and I'm beginning to share his displeasure ? I?m tired of seeing the same ads for mattress testing and exercise bikes appearing on every break!
>>>  
>>> Pat
>>> (saddened by the demise of ?grumpy? cat!).
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
>>>  
>>> From: Mike Giles via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> Sent: 05 November 2021 00:04
>>> To: Tech Ops <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC1 iPlayer
>>>  
>>> I find that I need aggravations like that to vent my spleen on, otherwise I might kick the cat! (Fortunately we don?t have a cat.)
>>>  
>>> My suppressed rant this evening was at the end of the much-vaunted but totally meaningless M & S Christmas advert, on which fortunes have no doubt been wasted, when the reverb on the closing musical phrase was chopped! Two seconds more would probably have sufficed, but no doubt that would have crossed a threshold into the next level of fees! 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>	
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
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From mibridge at mac.com  Fri Nov  5 17:45:01 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (M E GILES)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 22:45:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pat's silly season
In-Reply-To: <D4F0E70E20D946BAB670355115504FD3@dell9100>
References: <618580fd.1c69fb81.13f8d.742a@mx.google.com>
	<3CE620A0-70D1-4C95-846E-785E44770B8C@icloud.com>
	<D4F0E70E20D946BAB670355115504FD3@dell9100>
Message-ID: <F596702F-9778-41F0-92B4-E7958178AF1B@mac.com>

Or even Happiness Happiness Happiness, Chris! (Sorry to be a curmudgeon!)

Mike G
 

> On 5 Nov 2021, at 20:40, Chris on gmail via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 3 Wishes
> Happyness Happyness Happyness
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 03:25:10 2021
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 08:25:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
In-Reply-To: <6185ab63.1c69fb81.36de0.4811@mx.google.com>
References: <6185ab63.1c69fb81.36de0.4811@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAA0HHB3+c1Q-+9ubk8vanxAsqfM-_zxCUsG212u7WJPYPn7J0Q@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, definitely woolly  - and confirmed by my wife!
BR Alec

sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.

On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, 22:09 patheigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Did anyone else notice how woolly the sound was on ?Have I Got News for
> you? BBC1 05/11.
>
> I normally listen with a Bose Soundlink off my Samsung TV.
>
> Switching to Sennheiser headphones ? no better, so tested the audio chain
> by playing a CD which goes into the TV via a Sony DVD/CD player. Sounded
> good ? it was an Xavier Cugat Latin American 1958, with lots of hf
> instruments ? all sounded good, so I don?t think it was my ears!
>
> Pat
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>
> <#m_-9074623368441516657_m_5659594122944429951_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 03:48:12 2021
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (David Denness)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 08:48:12 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
In-Reply-To: <CAA0HHB3+c1Q-+9ubk8vanxAsqfM-_zxCUsG212u7WJPYPn7J0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6185ab63.1c69fb81.36de0.4811@mx.google.com>
	<CAA0HHB3+c1Q-+9ubk8vanxAsqfM-_zxCUsG212u7WJPYPn7J0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002f01d7d2eb$086b8290$194287b0$@gmail.com>

The sound on this and other panel shows seems to me to have been affected by the Perspex screens erected between panel members

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alec Bray via Tech1
Sent: 06 November 2021 08:25
To: patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>; Tech Ops Group <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Woolly Sound

 

Yes, definitely woolly  - and confirmed by my wife! 

BR Alec

sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.

 

On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, 22:09 patheigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

Did anyone else notice how woolly the sound was on ?Have I Got News for you? BBC1 05/11.

I normally listen with a Bose Soundlink off my Samsung TV.

Switching to Sennheiser headphones ? no better, so tested the audio chain by playing a CD which goes into the TV via a Sony DVD/CD player. Sounded good ? it was an Xavier Cugat Latin American 1958, with lots of hf instruments ? all sounded good, so I don?t think it was my ears!

Pat

 

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows

 

 

  _____  


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From waresound at msn.com  Sat Nov  6 06:57:48 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 11:57:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
In-Reply-To: <002f01d7d2eb$086b8290$194287b0$@gmail.com>
References: <6185ab63.1c69fb81.36de0.4811@mx.google.com>
	<CAA0HHB3+c1Q-+9ubk8vanxAsqfM-_zxCUsG212u7WJPYPn7J0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<002f01d7d2eb$086b8290$194287b0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB198198BC701B229894DF4A3CA78F9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

The perspex is certainly a factor, but another is that with Covid and social distancing there?s a need to let the talent fit their own personal mics whenever possible, particularly with regulars who we?ve hopefully shown how to do it. But when they turn up in clothing that requires a bit more thought and expertise, we?re onto a loser.

Taking up Pat?s invitation to make three wishes, one of mine would be that we could un-invent personal mics and radio mics. The second would be that if it?s only ever going to be shown on telly, then ffs shoot it in 16x9. The third would be that actors could learn to speak clearly.
Just imagine how nice TV drama could be if those wishes were granted!
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 6 Nov 2021, at 08:48, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
The sound on this and other panel shows seems to me to have been affected by the Perspex screens erected between panel members

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alec Bray via Tech1
Sent: 06 November 2021 08:25
To: patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>; Tech Ops Group <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Woolly Sound

Yes, definitely woolly  - and confirmed by my wife!
BR Alec
sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.

On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, 22:09 patheigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
Did anyone else notice how woolly the sound was on ?Have I Got News for you? BBC1 05/11.
I normally listen with a Bose Soundlink off my Samsung TV.
Switching to Sennheiser headphones ? no better, so tested the audio chain by playing a CD which goes into the TV via a Sony DVD/CD player. Sounded good ? it was an Xavier Cugat Latin American 1958, with lots of hf instruments ? all sounded good, so I don?t think it was my ears!
Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows


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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Nov  6 07:06:56 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 12:06:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
In-Reply-To: <002f01d7d2eb$086b8290$194287b0$@gmail.com>
References: <6185ab63.1c69fb81.36de0.4811@mx.google.com>
	<CAA0HHB3+c1Q-+9ubk8vanxAsqfM-_zxCUsG212u7WJPYPn7J0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<002f01d7d2eb$086b8290$194287b0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <61866fe0.1c69fb81.8a99e.6c69@mx.google.com>

So, could it be a phase cancellation effect with sound reflecting off the panels?
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: David Denness
Sent: 06 November 2021 08:48
To: 'Alec Bray'; 'patheigham'
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: RE: [Tech1] Woolly Sound

The sound on this and other panel shows seems to me to have been affected by the Perspex screens erected between panel members

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alec Bray via Tech1
Sent: 06 November 2021 08:25
To: patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>; Tech Ops Group <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Woolly Sound

Yes, definitely woolly? - and confirmed by my wife!?
BR Alec

On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, 22:09 patheigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
Did anyone else notice how woolly the sound was on ?Have I Got News for you? BBC1 05/11.
Pat
?
Sent from Mail for Windows
?





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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov  6 09:14:06 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 14:14:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB198198BC701B229894DF4A3CA78F9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAXP191MB198198BC701B229894DF4A3CA78F9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <6FB62811-179D-4A1C-85DE-F87BC75EB5EA@me.com>

There was recently a series where Michael Portillo was walking around the coastline of Devon and Cornwall.  His sound was dreadfully muffled throughout the series, while contributors were generally sounding OK.

I assumed that it was down to a combination of social distancing and the absence of experienced sound personell. It?s hard to believe that  somebody could have been monitoring the sound by actually listening to it. I would also guess that Covid meant that he put his own microphone on and then covered  it in a few layers of North Face?s finest weatherproof garments and nobody bothered to investigate where it ended up.

Alan Taylor



> On 6 Nov 2021, at 11:58, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? The perspex is certainly a factor, but another is that with Covid and social distancing there?s a need to let the talent fit their own personal mics whenever possible, particularly with regulars who we?ve hopefully shown how to do it. But when they turn up in clothing that requires a bit more thought and expertise, we?re onto a loser.
> 
> Taking up Pat?s invitation to make three wishes, one of mine would be that we could un-invent personal mics and radio mics. The second would be that if it?s only ever going to be shown on telly, then ffs shoot it in 16x9. The third would be that actors could learn to speak clearly. 
> Just imagine how nice TV drama could be if those wishes were granted!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> 
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 08:48, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> The sound on this and other panel shows seems to me to have been affected by the Perspex screens erected between panel members
>>  
>> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alec Bray via Tech1
>> Sent: 06 November 2021 08:25
>> To: patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>; Tech Ops Group <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
>>  
>> Yes, definitely woolly  - and confirmed by my wife! 
>> BR Alec
>> 
>> sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.
>>  
>> On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, 22:09 patheigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Did anyone else notice how woolly the sound was on ?Have I Got News for you? BBC1 05/11.
>> I normally listen with a Bose Soundlink off my Samsung TV.
>> Switching to Sennheiser headphones ? no better, so tested the audio chain by playing a CD which goes into the TV via a Sony DVD/CD player. Sounded good ? it was an Xavier Cugat Latin American 1958, with lots of hf instruments ? all sounded good, so I don?t think it was my ears!
>> Pat
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Nov  6 09:41:24 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 14:41:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
In-Reply-To: <6FB62811-179D-4A1C-85DE-F87BC75EB5EA@me.com>
References: <PAXP191MB198198BC701B229894DF4A3CA78F9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<6FB62811-179D-4A1C-85DE-F87BC75EB5EA@me.com>
Message-ID: <bc258e3e-20fc-ab23-0280-2eee5a19d271@btinternet.com>

It's been quite revealing that they no longer just clip a mic onto an 
interviewee? - presumably because of COVID. Even in studio current 
affairs like NewsNight, where they mainly use desk mics for this at the 
moment.

In my day, we tended to EQ a personal mic to get as best a match 
possible to a decent mic in a decent position. Never perfect, but at 
least you get intelligible sound. These days in many studio progs it 
seems to be? no EQ allowed. Often wondered if the use of EQ is now 
restricted to the most senior of sound mixers. Or the equipment provided 
doesn't have any.

Other possibility, since the BBC no longer makes its own speakers, is 
monitors with an excessive HF output. Or maybe just fashion - a reaction 
against nice bright 'digital' sound. ?

On 06/11/2021 14:14, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> There was recently a series where Michael Portillo was walking around 
> the coastline of Devon and Cornwall. ?His sound was dreadfully muffled 
> throughout the series, while contributors were generally sounding OK.
>
> I assumed that it was down to a combination of social distancing and 
> the absence of experienced sound personell. It?s hard to believe that 
> ?somebody could have been monitoring the sound by actually listening 
> to it. I would also guess that Covid meant that he put his own 
> microphone on and then covered ?it in a few layers of North Face?s 
> finest weatherproof garments and nobody bothered to investigate where 
> it ended up.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 11:58, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ? The perspex is certainly a factor, but another is that with Covid 
>> and social distancing there?s a need to let the talent fit their own 
>> personal mics whenever possible, particularly with regulars who we?ve 
>> hopefully shown how to do it. But when they turn up in clothing that 
>> requires a bit more thought and expertise, we?re onto a loser.
>>
>> Taking up Pat?s invitation to make three wishes, one of mine would be 
>> that we could un-invent personal mics and radio mics. The second 
>> would be that if it?s only ever going to be shown on telly, then ffs 
>> shoot it in 16x9. The third would be that actors could learn to speak 
>> clearly.
>> Just imagine how nice TV drama could be if those wishes were granted!
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>>
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>
>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 08:48, David Denness via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> The sound on this and other panel shows seems to me to have been 
>>> affected by the Perspex screens erected between panel members
>>>
>>> *From:*Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> *On Behalf Of *Alec Bray 
>>> via Tech1
>>> *Sent:* 06 November 2021 08:25
>>> *To:* patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>; Tech Ops Group 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
>>>
>>> Yes, definitely woolly? - and confirmed by my wife!
>>>
>>> BR Alec
>>>
>>> sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.
>>>
>>> On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, 22:09 patheigham via Tech1, 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Did anyone else notice how woolly the sound was on ?Have I Got
>>>     News for you? BBC1 05/11.
>>>
>>>     I normally listen with a Bose Soundlink off my Samsung TV.
>>>
>>>     Switching to Sennheiser headphones ? no better, so tested the
>>>     audio chain by playing a CD which goes into the TV via a Sony
>>>     DVD/CD player. Sounded good ? it was an Xavier Cugat Latin
>>>     American 1958, with lots of hf instruments ? all sounded good,
>>>     so I don?t think it was my ears!
>>>
>>>     Pat
>>>
>>>     Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
>>>     for Windows
>>>
>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>     Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>
>>>     	
>>>
>>>     This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
>>>     software.
>>>     www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     -- 
>>>     Tech1 mailing list
>>>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Nov  6 09:47:00 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 14:47:00 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
In-Reply-To: <002f01d7d2eb$086b8290$194287b0$@gmail.com>
References: <6185ab63.1c69fb81.36de0.4811@mx.google.com>
	<CAA0HHB3+c1Q-+9ubk8vanxAsqfM-_zxCUsG212u7WJPYPn7J0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<002f01d7d2eb$086b8290$194287b0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f3b2f08-f562-9d9e-ccab-0daf948939d4@btinternet.com>

I'm an avid Pointless viewer, and can't say I've noticed a lack of 
clarity, dialogue wise, on the celeb version where they use screens over 
the normal version where they don't. Not seen yesterdays HIGNFY yet - as 
it wasn't available on catchup at about 23.30.? Was it the same SS(s) as 
usual?

On 06/11/2021 08:48, David Denness via Tech1 wrote:
>
> The sound on this and other panel shows seems to me to have been 
> affected by the Perspex screens erected between panel members
>
> *From:*Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> *On Behalf Of *Alec Bray 
> via Tech1
> *Sent:* 06 November 2021 08:25
> *To:* patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>; Tech Ops Group 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
>
> Yes, definitely woolly? - and confirmed by my wife!
>
> BR Alec
>
> sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.
>
> On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, 22:09 patheigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
> wrote:
>
>     Did anyone else notice how woolly the sound was on ?Have I Got
>     News for you? BBC1 05/11.
>
>     I normally listen with a Bose Soundlink off my Samsung TV.
>
>     Switching to Sennheiser headphones ? no better, so tested the
>     audio chain by playing a CD which goes into the TV via a Sony
>     DVD/CD player. Sounded good ? it was an Xavier Cugat Latin
>     American 1958, with lots of hf instruments ? all sounded good, so
>     I don?t think it was my ears!
>
>     Pat
>
>     Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
>     for Windows
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>     	
>
>     This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>     www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sat Nov  6 10:42:08 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 15:42:08 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Blue carbon
Message-ID: <9B14CCA1B4D04794A0ED28DF38BD7EFB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Has this topic been aired before on any previous thread?



?Dangerous blindspot?: why overlooking blue carbon could sink us.

Karen McVeigh.  Nov. 6th

When the ambitious plan to allow sea water to flood over the Steart peninsula in Somerset was completed in 2014, critics called it a waste of money. Floods had recently blighted the nearby area, and some local people argued the ?20m spent on creating a new 250-hectare (617-acre) salt marsh would have been better spent on other flood-prevention projects.

Seven years ago, the concept of ?blue carbon? ? how marine ecosystems store carbon ? was in its infancy. Some research had looked at how mangrove forests absorb carbon, but little was known about how effective seagrass and salt marshes also were at absorbing greenhouse gas emissions.

The two groups behind the salt marsh ? the Environment Agency and the Wildfowl & Wetlands Trust (WWT) ? barely mentioned the climate. They said the purpose of the marsh was to protect the coast from erosion and create a new valuable habitat for birdlife. Ian Liddell-Grainger, MP for Bridgwater and West Somerset, called the marsh an ?extravagant, ridiculous scheme? that put birds ahead of humans.

Trees and peat can take us so far, but blue carbon ecosystems, such as salt marshes, can take us further

Less than eight years later, however, everything has changed. Blue carbon is at the forefront of the fight against the climate crisis ? and as world leaders gather at Cop26, evidence has emerged that the Steart marsh could be a more powerful carbon sink than anybody imagined.

Scientists at Manchester Metropolitan University found that Steart marshes absorbed 19 tonnes of organic carbon a hectare every year, or 18,000 tonnes in four years ? the equivalent of eliminating the greenhouse gas emissions of 32,900 cars. Their work is part of a growing body of research suggesting blue carbon is an order of magnitude more efficient than its terrestrial equivalent.

?The carbon storage at Steart is phenomenal,? says Tim McGrath, head of project development at WWT, which manages the salt marsh. ?These exceptional findings could indicate that the carbon storage potential of restoring salt marsh around the UK coast has been underestimated.?

It would take 100 years for a woodland to sequester and store as much carbon as Steart can store in six years, McGrath says. ?Trees and peat can take us so far, but blue carbon ecosystems, such as salt marshes, can take us further. It?s time governments seized this opportunity.?

But as world leaders at Cop26 earlier pledge to end deforestation by 2030, campaigners and marine conservationists say the powerful carbon sinks in the ocean are being overlooked. Only 43 out of 113 countries to submit greenhouse gas inventories, or nationally determined contributions (NDCs), have included blue carbon ecosystems as part of their mitigation measures. The UK, despite being a coastal nation with vast reserves of potential blue carbon, is one of those to failing to do so.

?If we are not protecting and counting the blue carbon in our seas, this leaves a dangerous blindspot? for UK policy, says Ailsa McLellan, coordinator for Our Seas, a coalition of Scottish businesses, communities and environmental groups. ?It?s time we counted blue carbon, reinstated a limit on damaging methods of fishing, and put future generations first.?

One study suggests bottom trawling could release as much carbon as global aviation emissions. Our Seas is calling on Kwasi Kwarteng, the business secretary, to establish an accounting system for blue carbon, so that marine and coastal ecosystems, including salt marshes, can be protected as part of the UK?s efforts to meet its climate goals.



Dave Newbitt.









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From mibridge at mac.com  Sat Nov  6 11:18:54 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (M E GILES)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 16:18:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Blue carbon
In-Reply-To: <9B14CCA1B4D04794A0ED28DF38BD7EFB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <9B14CCA1B4D04794A0ED28DF38BD7EFB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <4F03B859-8EC3-45CE-9F1D-BDFFBFC2F8B2@mac.com>

I don?t remember it, Dave. It sounds almost too good to be true, but I surely hope it is and that the significance is not overlooked ~ seems like a case of ?can?t see the marsh for the trees?, to paraphrase that all too frequently true adage.

Mike G



> On 6 Nov 2021, at 15:42, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Has this topic been aired before on any previous thread?
>  
> <image[1].png>
>  
> ?Dangerous blindspot?: why overlooking blue carbon could sink us.
> 
> Karen McVeigh.  Nov. 6th
> 
> When the ambitious plan to allow sea water to flood over the Steart peninsula in Somerset <> was completed in 2014, critics called it a waste of money. Floods had recently blighted the nearby area, and some local people argued the ?20m spent on creating a new 250-hectare (617-acre) salt marsh would have been better spent on other flood-prevention projects.
> Seven years ago, the concept of ?blue carbon? ? how marine ecosystems store carbon ? was in its infancy. Some research had looked at how mangrove forests absorb carbon, but little was known about how effective seagrass and salt marshes also were at absorbing greenhouse gas emissions.
> 
> The two groups behind the salt marsh ? the Environment Agency and the Wildfowl & Wetlands Trust (WWT) ? barely mentioned the climate. They said the purpose of the marsh was to protect the coast from erosion and create a new valuable habitat for birdlife. Ian Liddell-Grainger, MP for Bridgwater and West Somerset, <> called the marsh an ?extravagant, ridiculous scheme? that put birds ahead of humans.
> 
> Trees and peat can take us so far, but blue carbon ecosystems, such as salt marshes, can take us further
> 
> Less than eight years later, however, everything has changed. Blue carbon is at the forefront of the fight against the climate crisis ? and as world leaders gather at Cop26, evidence has emerged that the Steart marsh could be a more powerful carbon sink than anybody imagined.
> 
> Scientists at Manchester Metropolitan University found that Steart marshes absorbed 19 tonnes of organic carbon a hectare every year, or 18,000 tonnes in four years <> ? the equivalent of eliminating the greenhouse gas emissions of 32,900 cars. Their work is part of a growing body of research suggesting blue carbon is an order of magnitude more efficient than its terrestrial equivalent.
> 
> ?The carbon storage at Steart is phenomenal,? says Tim McGrath, head of project development at WWT, which manages the salt marsh. ?These exceptional findings could indicate that the carbon storage potential of restoring salt marsh around the UK coast has been underestimated.?
> 
> It would take 100 years for a woodland to sequester and store as much carbon as Steart can store in six years, McGrath says. ?Trees and peat can take us so far, but blue carbon ecosystems, such as salt marshes, can take us further. It?s time governments seized this opportunity.?
> 
> But as world leaders at Cop26 earlier pledge to end deforestation by 2030 <>, campaigners and marine conservationists say the powerful carbon sinks in the ocean are being overlooked. Only 43 out of 113 countries to submit greenhouse gas inventories <>, or nationally determined contributions (NDCs), have included blue carbon ecosystems as part of their mitigation measures. The UK, despite being a coastal nation with vast reserves of potential blue carbon, is one of those to failing to do so.
> 
> ?If we are not protecting and counting the blue carbon in our seas, this leaves a dangerous blindspot? for UK policy, says Ailsa McLellan, coordinator for Our Seas, a coalition of Scottish businesses, communities and environmental groups. ?It?s time we counted blue carbon, reinstated a limit on damaging methods of fishing, and put future generations first.?
> 
> One study suggests bottom trawling could release as much carbon as global aviation emissions <>. Our Seas is calling on Kwasi Kwarteng, the business secretary, to establish an accounting system for blue carbon, so that marine and coastal ecosystems, including salt marshes, can be protected as part of the UK?s efforts to meet its climate goals.
> 
>  
> Dave Newbitt.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  <>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From relong at btinternet.com  Sat Nov  6 13:08:35 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 18:08:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
In-Reply-To: <bc258e3e-20fc-ab23-0280-2eee5a19d271@btinternet.com>
References: <bc258e3e-20fc-ab23-0280-2eee5a19d271@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <12D0FD22-6C4A-48EC-A723-676ECFA1D569@btinternet.com>

Coastal walking in Cornwall in winter is a challenge for an experienced recordist .
For a cameraman on his own in COVID-19  situation it obviously was an impossible task. 
Other contributors suffered better, perhaps the researcher rigged those.
Who can say , it was probably monitored on a cheap ear piece , but why was it not tweaked in the dub ( if they had one)?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 6 Nov 2021, at 14:41, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> It's been quite revealing that they no longer just clip a mic onto an interviewee  - presumably because of COVID. Even in studio current affairs like NewsNight, where they mainly use desk mics for this at the moment.
> 
> In my day, we tended to EQ a personal mic to get as best a match possible to a decent mic in a decent position. Never perfect, but at least you get intelligible sound. These days in many studio progs it seems to be  no EQ allowed. Often wondered if the use of EQ is now restricted to the most senior of sound mixers. Or the equipment provided doesn't have any.
> 
> Other possibility, since the BBC no longer makes its own speakers, is monitors with an excessive HF output. Or maybe just fashion - a reaction against nice bright 'digital' sound. ?
> 
> On 06/11/2021 14:14, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> There was recently a series where Michael Portillo was walking around the coastline of Devon and Cornwall.  His sound was dreadfully muffled throughout the series, while contributors were generally sounding OK.
>> 
>> I assumed that it was down to a combination of social distancing and the absence of experienced sound personell. It?s hard to believe that  somebody could have been monitoring the sound by actually listening to it. I would also guess that Covid meant that he put his own microphone on and then covered  it in a few layers of North Face?s finest weatherproof garments and nobody bothered to investigate where it ended up.
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 11:58, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ? The perspex is certainly a factor, but another is that with Covid and social distancing there?s a need to let the talent fit their own personal mics whenever possible, particularly with regulars who we?ve hopefully shown how to do it. But when they turn up in clothing that requires a bit more thought and expertise, we?re onto a loser.
>>> 
>>> Taking up Pat?s invitation to make three wishes, one of mine would be that we could un-invent personal mics and radio mics. The second would be that if it?s only ever going to be shown on telly, then ffs shoot it in 16x9. The third would be that actors could learn to speak clearly. 
>>> Just imagine how nice TV drama could be if those wishes were granted!
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nick.
>>> 
>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>> 
>>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 08:48, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> The sound on this and other panel shows seems to me to have been affected by the Perspex screens erected between panel members
>>>>  
>>>> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alec Bray via Tech1
>>>> Sent: 06 November 2021 08:25
>>>> To: patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>; Tech Ops Group <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
>>>>  
>>>> Yes, definitely woolly  - and confirmed by my wife! 
>>>> BR Alec
>>>> 
>>>> sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.
>>>>  
>>>> On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, 22:09 patheigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Did anyone else notice how woolly the sound was on ?Have I Got News for you? BBC1 05/11.
>>>> I normally listen with a Bose Soundlink off my Samsung TV.
>>>> Switching to Sennheiser headphones ? no better, so tested the audio chain by playing a CD which goes into the TV via a Sony DVD/CD player. Sounded good ? it was an Xavier Cugat Latin American 1958, with lots of hf instruments ? all sounded good, so I don?t think it was my ears!
>>>> Pat
>>>>  
>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>>> www.avast.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From mibridge at mac.com  Sat Nov  6 13:38:36 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (M E GILES)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 18:38:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Boom mics & gravity
In-Reply-To: <F3F18702-B13F-436B-857C-FEB5C9DC2F9A@mac.com>
References: <1391783660.54193.YahooMailNeo@web87703.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
	<4C88CBFBA13D4478A1BB87143F1923A1@PATRICKSONY>
	<1391876203.66224.YahooMailNeo@web87704.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
	<75CE979F0B834193BE5E2EC84FAC295E@PATRICKSONY>
	<52F69B9D.7060405@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<F3F18702-B13F-436B-857C-FEB5C9DC2F9A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <E4FC254F-D73C-49B3-88C3-6777C0629393@mac.com>

On 9 Feb 2014, at 01:00, Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> We used 4033's in the booms in Bristol, with a rather scrappy sorbo rubber collar in the clamp to reduce rumble, so it was not a very secure fit. During Going For a Song, Arthur Negus would often stand up to talk about a bit of furniture, requiring a swift lift to clear the wide shot. During one rehearsal, I was a bit over-energetic in clearing shot, with the consequence that the weighty 4033 stayed behind ~  far from "resting gently" on Arthur Negus's hair, the indentation of the mic could clearly be seen on his forehead! Make-up was called to mask the damage and Arthur was very understanding about it, but I don't think any sort of accident report was ever made.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> On 8 Feb 2014, at 21:03, John Howell wrote:
> 
>> Your story Pat reminds me of when I was on a boom on ""The Lady of the Camellias"  (TC4 24-26 Nov 1963) We were using D25s in the Fisher booms and the arms were perfectly balanced throughout their rack. I had got into the habit of not locking off if I needed to use two hands to briefly shuffle my script and scribble notes. On one occasion I had flattened off the mic to allow everyone to be heard by the director and started writing my notes. I looked up to see the mic. resting very, very, gently on Billie Whitelaw's hair. The look she gave me will be with me for ever!
>> 
>> John.
>> 
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov  6 13:50:43 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 18:50:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
In-Reply-To: <12D0FD22-6C4A-48EC-A723-676ECFA1D569@btinternet.com>
References: <12D0FD22-6C4A-48EC-A723-676ECFA1D569@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <9AB48862-526F-4656-9A40-F7311433CD23@me.com>

I guess that it must have been tweaked in post production and what was broadcast was the best they could salvage. I can?t imagine of somebody even editing on a laptop without spotting the problem.

I?m also rather surprised that this muffled sound was a constant feature for the whole series.  I?ve never worked on a project like that without myself or somebody else checking over the rushes at the earliest opportunity, certainly no later than the first evening.

Alan Taylor

> On 6 Nov 2021, at 18:09, Roger Long via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Coastal walking in Cornwall in winter is a challenge for an experienced recordist .
> For a cameraman on his own in COVID-19  situation it obviously was an impossible task. 
> Other contributors suffered better, perhaps the researcher rigged those.
> Who can say , it was probably monitored on a cheap ear piece , but why was it not tweaked in the dub ( if they had one)?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 14:41, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> It's been quite revealing that they no longer just clip a mic onto an interviewee  - presumably because of COVID. Even in studio current affairs like NewsNight, where they mainly use desk mics for this at the moment.
>> 
>> In my day, we tended to EQ a personal mic to get as best a match possible to a decent mic in a decent position. Never perfect, but at least you get intelligible sound. These days in many studio progs it seems to be  no EQ allowed. Often wondered if the use of EQ is now restricted to the most senior of sound mixers. Or the equipment provided doesn't have any.
>> 
>> Other possibility, since the BBC no longer makes its own speakers, is monitors with an excessive HF output. Or maybe just fashion - a reaction against nice bright 'digital' sound. ?
>> 
>> On 06/11/2021 14:14, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>> There was recently a series where Michael Portillo was walking around the coastline of Devon and Cornwall.  His sound was dreadfully muffled throughout the series, while contributors were generally sounding OK.
>>> 
>>> I assumed that it was down to a combination of social distancing and the absence of experienced sound personell. It?s hard to believe that  somebody could have been monitoring the sound by actually listening to it. I would also guess that Covid meant that he put his own microphone on and then covered  it in a few layers of North Face?s finest weatherproof garments and nobody bothered to investigate where it ended up.
>>> 
>>> Alan Taylor
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 11:58, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ? The perspex is certainly a factor, but another is that with Covid and social distancing there?s a need to let the talent fit their own personal mics whenever possible, particularly with regulars who we?ve hopefully shown how to do it. But when they turn up in clothing that requires a bit more thought and expertise, we?re onto a loser.
>>>> 
>>>> Taking up Pat?s invitation to make three wishes, one of mine would be that we could un-invent personal mics and radio mics. The second would be that if it?s only ever going to be shown on telly, then ffs shoot it in 16x9. The third would be that actors could learn to speak clearly. 
>>>> Just imagine how nice TV drama could be if those wishes were granted!
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Nick.
>>>> 
>>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>>> 
>>>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 08:48, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?
>>>>> The sound on this and other panel shows seems to me to have been affected by the Perspex screens erected between panel members
>>>>>  
>>>>> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alec Bray via Tech1
>>>>> Sent: 06 November 2021 08:25
>>>>> To: patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>; Tech Ops Group <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
>>>>>  
>>>>> Yes, definitely woolly  - and confirmed by my wife! 
>>>>> BR Alec
>>>>> 
>>>>> sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.
>>>>>  
>>>>> On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, 22:09 patheigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Did anyone else notice how woolly the sound was on ?Have I Got News for you? BBC1 05/11.
>>>>> I normally listen with a Bose Soundlink off my Samsung TV.
>>>>> Switching to Sennheiser headphones ? no better, so tested the audio chain by playing a CD which goes into the TV via a Sony DVD/CD player. Sounded good ? it was an Xavier Cugat Latin American 1958, with lots of hf instruments ? all sounded good, so I don?t think it was my ears!
>>>>> Pat
>>>>>  
>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> www.avast.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 15:44:54 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 20:44:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
Message-ID: <b3b52db6-0edb-2060-989a-0324df6a83a2@gmail.com>

Sky Arts is running that Rolling Stones circus concert, recorded 
(filmed) on these.? I think the BBC tried them out at Riverside, but I 
can't remember what they were called.

B
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From peter.neill at icloud.com  Sat Nov  6 15:48:41 2021
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 20:48:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <b3b52db6-0edb-2060-989a-0324df6a83a2@gmail.com>
References: <b3b52db6-0edb-2060-989a-0324df6a83a2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F39EE405-AAC0-463E-9A63-93E43AE99F9A@icloud.com>

I think the system was called Gemini. 

Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. 

> On 6 Nov 2021, at 20:45, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Sky Arts is running that Rolling Stones circus concert, recorded (filmed) on these.  I think the BBC tried them out at Riverside, but I can't remember what they were called.
> 
> B
> 
>     -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat Nov  6 16:43:37 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 21:43:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <F39EE405-AAC0-463E-9A63-93E43AE99F9A@icloud.com>
References: <b3b52db6-0edb-2060-989a-0324df6a83a2@gmail.com>
	<F39EE405-AAC0-463E-9A63-93E43AE99F9A@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>

I seem to remember that there were several in the studio and were used 
like conventional electronic cameras and only ran when cut-up on a 
mixer! The bits were glued together later - it didn't seem to last long 
as an experiment! Cheers, Dave

On 06/11/2021 20:48, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote:
> I think the system was called Gemini.
>
> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions.
>
>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 20:45, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ? Sky Arts is running that Rolling Stones circus concert, recorded 
>> (filmed) on these.? I think the BBC tried them out at Riverside, but 
>> I can't remember what they were called.
>>
>> B
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat Nov  6 16:46:45 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 21:46:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Boom mics & gravity
In-Reply-To: <E4FC254F-D73C-49B3-88C3-6777C0629393@mac.com>
References: <1391783660.54193.YahooMailNeo@web87703.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
	<4C88CBFBA13D4478A1BB87143F1923A1@PATRICKSONY>
	<1391876203.66224.YahooMailNeo@web87704.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
	<75CE979F0B834193BE5E2EC84FAC295E@PATRICKSONY>
	<52F69B9D.7060405@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<F3F18702-B13F-436B-857C-FEB5C9DC2F9A@mac.com>
	<E4FC254F-D73C-49B3-88C3-6777C0629393@mac.com>
Message-ID: <a54c463c-6e40-4081-686a-80b20a7056db@btinternet.com>

There were many presenters? at TVC who bore the grooves of a 4033 on 
their forehead - including Richard Dimbleby and Patrick Moore Cheers, Dave

On 06/11/2021 18:38, M E GILES via Tech1 wrote:
> On 9 Feb 2014, at 01:00, Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com 
> <mailto:mibridge at mac.com>> wrote:
>>
>> We used 4033's in the booms in Bristol, with a rather scrappy sorbo 
>> rubber collar in the clamp to reduce rumble, so it was not a very 
>> secure fit. During Going For a Song, Arthur Negus would often stand 
>> up to talk about a bit of furniture, requiring a swift lift to clear 
>> the wide shot. During one rehearsal, I was a bit over-energetic in 
>> clearing shot, with the consequence that the weighty 4033 stayed 
>> behind ~ ?far from "resting gently" on Arthur Negus's hair, the 
>> indentation of the mic could clearly be seen on his forehead! Make-up 
>> was called to mask the damage and Arthur was very understanding about 
>> it, but I don't think any sort of accident report was ever made.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> On 8 Feb 2014, at 21:03, John Howell wrote:
>>
>>> Your story Pat reminds me of when I was on a boom on ""The Lady of 
>>> the Camellias"? (TC4 24-26 Nov 1963) We were using D25s in the 
>>> Fisher booms and the arms were perfectly balanced throughout their 
>>> rack. I had got into the habit of not locking off if I needed to use 
>>> two hands to briefly shuffle my script and scribble notes. On one 
>>> occasion I had flattened off the mic to allow everyone to be heard 
>>> by the director and started writing my notes. I looked up to see the 
>>> mic. resting very, very, gently on Billie Whitelaw's hair. The look 
>>> she gave me will be with me for ever!
>>>
>>> John.
>>>
>
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From waresound at msn.com  Sat Nov  6 17:39:11 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 22:39:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Boom mics & gravity
In-Reply-To: <a54c463c-6e40-4081-686a-80b20a7056db@btinternet.com>
References: <1391783660.54193.YahooMailNeo@web87703.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
	<4C88CBFBA13D4478A1BB87143F1923A1@PATRICKSONY>
	<1391876203.66224.YahooMailNeo@web87704.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
	<75CE979F0B834193BE5E2EC84FAC295E@PATRICKSONY>
	<52F69B9D.7060405@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<F3F18702-B13F-436B-857C-FEB5C9DC2F9A@mac.com>
	<E4FC254F-D73C-49B3-88C3-6777C0629393@mac.com>
	<a54c463c-6e40-4081-686a-80b20a7056db@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981E70BE58448548F52364AA78F9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Isn?t this the bit where someone tells the story of the Mole counterbalance weight and George Dixon?s helmet?  ?Lift the boom and cut to the wide?.
Jack should be mighty proud of the fact that in 2021, if you Google ?Dixon?, he?s No7 that comes up.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:47, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

There were many presenters  at TVC who bore the grooves of a 4033 on their forehead - including Richard Dimbleby and Patrick Moore Cheers, Dave

On 06/11/2021 18:38, M E GILES via Tech1 wrote:
On 9 Feb 2014, at 01:00, Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com<mailto:mibridge at mac.com>> wrote:

We used 4033's in the booms in Bristol, with a rather scrappy sorbo rubber collar in the clamp to reduce rumble, so it was not a very secure fit. During Going For a Song, Arthur Negus would often stand up to talk about a bit of furniture, requiring a swift lift to clear the wide shot. During one rehearsal, I was a bit over-energetic in clearing shot, with the consequence that the weighty 4033 stayed behind ~  far from "resting gently" on Arthur Negus's hair, the indentation of the mic could clearly be seen on his forehead! Make-up was called to mask the damage and Arthur was very understanding about it, but I don't think any sort of accident report was ever made.

Mike


On 8 Feb 2014, at 21:03, John Howell wrote:

Your story Pat reminds me of when I was on a boom on ""The Lady of the Camellias"  (TC4 24-26 Nov 1963) We were using D25s in the Fisher booms and the arms were perfectly balanced throughout their rack. I had got into the habit of not locking off if I needed to use two hands to briefly shuffle my script and scribble notes. On one occasion I had flattened off the mic to allow everyone to be heard by the director and started writing my notes. I looked up to see the mic. resting very, very, gently on Billie Whitelaw's hair. The look she gave me will be with me for ever!

John.



--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sat Nov  6 18:15:42 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 23:15:42 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Boom mics & gravity
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981E70BE58448548F52364AA78F9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <1391783660.54193.YahooMailNeo@web87703.mail.ir2.yahoo.com><4C88CBFBA13D4478A1BB87143F1923A1@PATRICKSONY><1391876203.66224.YahooMailNeo@web87704.mail.ir2.yahoo.com><75CE979F0B834193BE5E2EC84FAC295E@PATRICKSONY><52F69B9D.7060405@howell61.f9.co.uk><F3F18702-B13F-436B-857C-FEB5C9DC2F9A@mac.com><E4FC254F-D73C-49B3-88C3-6777C0629393@mac.com><a54c463c-6e40-4081-686a-80b20a7056db@btinternet.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981E70BE58448548F52364AA78F9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <F8EB0A34388F4FAB810E28FA2FCD6CC7@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Evenin? all. Worked on a fair few Dixon of Dock Greens. Seem to remember in his later years Jack regularly needed a few takes for his opening monologue. Couldn?t resort to Desk Sergeant Flint?s ruse of little aide memoire notes inside the upturned helmet or elsewhere on the station desk. Arthur Rigby, Peter Byrne et al ? God, it makes you feel old!

Dave Newbitt.

From: Nick Ware via Tech1 
Sent: Saturday, November 6, 2021 10:39 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Boom mics & gravity

Isn?t this the bit where someone tells the story of the Mole counterbalance weight and George Dixon?s helmet?  ?Lift the boom and cut to the wide?. 
Jack should be mighty proud of the fact that in 2021, if you Google ?Dixon?, he?s No7 that comes up.
Cheers, 
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5



  On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:47, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


  ? 
  There were many presenters  at TVC who bore the grooves of a 4033 on their forehead - including Richard Dimbleby and Patrick Moore Cheers, Dave


  On 06/11/2021 18:38, M E GILES via Tech1 wrote:
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Sat Nov  6 18:46:28 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 23:46:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB198198BC701B229894DF4A3CA78F9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAXP191MB198198BC701B229894DF4A3CA78F9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <81E42CC0-CB2E-4D93-B9D8-B5B57495344B@gmail.com>

It?s not only actors who need to learn to speak clearly but presenters too. One of those who recently joined the Today team and who occasionally presents Start The Week speaks far too fast that it amounts to a jabber. His words aren?t properly formed as you can see by watching his lips when he appears in vision on the news or elsewhere. It winds me up and makes for unnecessarily difficult listening as I have to listen hard and concentrate when I?m not just sitting down but getting on with the day as most listeners will be.
One of the continuity announcers on Radio 4 who sometimes reads the news bulletins speaks in a very stilted and plummy voice, often placing the emphasis on the wrong syllables and mis-pronouncing words as though he struggles with the English language. Recently he pronounced the word poultry as though it was two words, pole tree, more than once. He obviously needs help to make him sound more natural and to get the pronunciation right.
I wonder why none of their colleagues or managers offer either of these people coaching or training which is what they need,
Geoff



Geoff
> On 6 Nov 2021, at 11:58, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ? The perspex is certainly a factor, but another is that with Covid and social distancing there?s a need to let the talent fit their own personal mics whenever possible, particularly with regulars who we?ve hopefully shown how to do it. But when they turn up in clothing that requires a bit more thought and expertise, we?re onto a loser.
> 
> Taking up Pat?s invitation to make three wishes, one of mine would be that we could un-invent personal mics and radio mics. The second would be that if it?s only ever going to be shown on telly, then ffs shoot it in 16x9. The third would be that actors could learn to speak clearly. 
> Just imagine how nice TV drama could be if those wishes were granted!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> 
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 08:48, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> ?
>> The sound on this and other panel shows seems to me to have been affected by the Perspex screens erected between panel members
>>  
>> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alec Bray via Tech1
>> Sent: 06 November 2021 08:25
>> To: patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>; Tech Ops Group <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
>>  
>> Yes, definitely woolly  - and confirmed by my wife! 
>> BR Alec
>> 
>> sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.
>>  
>> On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, 22:09 patheigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Did anyone else notice how woolly the sound was on ?Have I Got News for you? BBC1 05/11.
>> I normally listen with a Bose Soundlink off my Samsung TV.
>> Switching to Sennheiser headphones ? no better, so tested the audio chain by playing a CD which goes into the TV via a Sony DVD/CD player. Sounded good ? it was an Xavier Cugat Latin American 1958, with lots of hf instruments ? all sounded good, so I don?t think it was my ears!
>> Pat
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From mibridge at mac.com  Sat Nov  6 19:38:40 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 00:38:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
In-Reply-To: <81E42CC0-CB2E-4D93-B9D8-B5B57495344B@gmail.com>
References: <81E42CC0-CB2E-4D93-B9D8-B5B57495344B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B110D7B-626B-486D-B6B9-413ED30014CF@mac.com>

You?re in danger of falling into the ?R? trap Geoff - in both cases. I agree, but hesitate to offer a solution. 

Mike G


> On 6 Nov 2021, at 23:47, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> It?s not only actors who need to learn to speak clearly but presenters too. One of those who recently joined the Today team and who occasionally presents Start The Week speaks far too fast that it amounts to a jabber. His words aren?t properly formed as you can see by watching his lips when he appears in vision on the news or elsewhere. It winds me up and makes for unnecessarily difficult listening as I have to listen hard and concentrate when I?m not just sitting down but getting on with the day as most listeners will be.
> One of the continuity announcers on Radio 4 who sometimes reads the news bulletins speaks in a very stilted and plummy voice, often placing the emphasis on the wrong syllables and mis-pronouncing words as though he struggles with the English language. Recently he pronounced the word poultry as though it was two words, pole tree, more than once. He obviously needs help to make him sound more natural and to get the pronunciation right.
> I wonder why none of their colleagues or managers offer either of these people coaching or training which is what they need,
> Geoff
> 
> 
> 
> Geoff
>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 11:58, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ? The perspex is certainly a factor, but another is that with Covid and social distancing there?s a need to let the talent fit their own personal mics whenever possible, particularly with regulars who we?ve hopefully shown how to do it. But when they turn up in clothing that requires a bit more thought and expertise, we?re onto a loser.
>> 
>> Taking up Pat?s invitation to make three wishes, one of mine would be that we could un-invent personal mics and radio mics. The second would be that if it?s only ever going to be shown on telly, then ffs shoot it in 16x9. The third would be that actors could learn to speak clearly. 
>> Just imagine how nice TV drama could be if those wishes were granted!
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>> 
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>> 
>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 08:48, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> The sound on this and other panel shows seems to me to have been affected by the Perspex screens erected between panel members
>>>  
>>> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alec Bray via Tech1
>>> Sent: 06 November 2021 08:25
>>> To: patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>; Tech Ops Group <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
>>>  
>>> Yes, definitely woolly  - and confirmed by my wife! 
>>> BR Alec
>>> 
>>> sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.
>>>  
>>> On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, 22:09 patheigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Did anyone else notice how woolly the sound was on ?Have I Got News for you? BBC1 05/11.
>>> I normally listen with a Bose Soundlink off my Samsung TV.
>>> Switching to Sennheiser headphones ? no better, so tested the audio chain by playing a CD which goes into the TV via a Sony DVD/CD player. Sounded good ? it was an Xavier Cugat Latin American 1958, with lots of hf instruments ? all sounded good, so I don?t think it was my ears!
>>> Pat
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sun Nov  7 01:52:12 2021
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 06:52:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>
References: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>

I recall it being known as ?Addivision?  It?s main problem was that the Union (probably ABS) objected to the use of film cameras without appropriate film department pay grades, since clearly that was the intention, hence deadlock and the equipment remained herded into a cage in the corner of, or next to, a Riverside studio. After months gathering dust it disappeared again. And that was that?

Peter Fox

On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
I seem to remember that there were several in the studio and were used like conventional electronic cameras and only ran when cut-up on a mixer! The bits were glued together later - it didn't seem to last long as an experiment! Cheers, Dave 

On 06/11/2021 20:48, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote:
> I think the system was called Gemini. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. 
> 
>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 20:45, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ? Sky Arts is running that Rolling Stones circus concert, recorded (filmed) on these.  I think the BBC tried them out at Riverside, but I can't remember what they were called.
>> 
>> B
>> 
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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sun Nov  7 03:25:02 2021
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 09:25:02 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <EFE5C355-B41B-4872-8860-AE01E86EBBC5@zero51.force9.co.uk>


I further found this link to Gerry Anderson and it includes mention of Addavision towards the end. Its an interesting read about Thunderbirds et seq  anyway

http://www.tvstudiohistory.co.uk/gerry.htm


Peter Fox

On 7 Nov 2021, at 06:52, Peter Fox <peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk> wrote:

?I recall it being known as ?Addivision?  It?s main problem was that the Union (probably ABS) objected to the use of film cameras without appropriate film department pay grades, since clearly that was the intention, hence deadlock and the equipment remained herded into a cage in the corner of, or next to, a Riverside studio. After months gathering dust it disappeared again. And that was that?

Peter Fox

On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
I seem to remember that there were several in the studio and were used like conventional electronic cameras and only ran when cut-up on a mixer! The bits were glued together later - it didn't seem to last long as an experiment! Cheers, Dave 

On 06/11/2021 20:48, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote:
> I think the system was called Gemini. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. 
> 
>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 20:45, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ? Sky Arts is running that Rolling Stones circus concert, recorded (filmed) on these.  I think the BBC tried them out at Riverside, but I can't remember what they were called.
>> 
>> B
>> 
>>  -- 
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 03:33:28 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 09:33:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
In-Reply-To: <3B110D7B-626B-486D-B6B9-413ED30014CF@mac.com>
References: <3B110D7B-626B-486D-B6B9-413ED30014CF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <769CDE37-0AA8-4BEF-A3D0-DAA3568A6923@gmail.com>

It?s why I didn?t name the individuals but I can?t help noticing the problem with how they speak and keep wondering how I or anyone could help them. I wish I was still working and might have been able to have a private word after weighing up whether they would listen and not take offence, as none is intended.
The frustrating thing is that both could do so much better with the kind of friendly help that we as professionals used to give to each other and someone should be offering that to them in a way they would find acceptable,
Geoff

> On 7 Nov 2021, at 00:39, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> You?re in danger of falling into the ?R? trap Geoff - in both cases. I agree, but hesitate to offer a solution. 
> 
> Mike G
> 
> 
>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 23:47, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> It?s not only actors who need to learn to speak clearly but presenters too. One of those who recently joined the Today team and who occasionally presents Start The Week speaks far too fast that it amounts to a jabber. His words aren?t properly formed as you can see by watching his lips when he appears in vision on the news or elsewhere. It winds me up and makes for unnecessarily difficult listening as I have to listen hard and concentrate when I?m not just sitting down but getting on with the day as most listeners will be.
>> One of the continuity announcers on Radio 4 who sometimes reads the news bulletins speaks in a very stilted and plummy voice, often placing the emphasis on the wrong syllables and mis-pronouncing words as though he struggles with the English language. Recently he pronounced the word poultry as though it was two words, pole tree, more than once. He obviously needs help to make him sound more natural and to get the pronunciation right.
>> I wonder why none of their colleagues or managers offer either of these people coaching or training which is what they need,
>> Geoff
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Geoff
>>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 11:58, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ? The perspex is certainly a factor, but another is that with Covid and social distancing there?s a need to let the talent fit their own personal mics whenever possible, particularly with regulars who we?ve hopefully shown how to do it. But when they turn up in clothing that requires a bit more thought and expertise, we?re onto a loser.
>>> 
>>> Taking up Pat?s invitation to make three wishes, one of mine would be that we could un-invent personal mics and radio mics. The second would be that if it?s only ever going to be shown on telly, then ffs shoot it in 16x9. The third would be that actors could learn to speak clearly. 
>>> Just imagine how nice TV drama could be if those wishes were granted!
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nick.
>>> 
>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>> 
>>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 08:48, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> The sound on this and other panel shows seems to me to have been affected by the Perspex screens erected between panel members
>>>>  
>>>> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alec Bray via Tech1
>>>> Sent: 06 November 2021 08:25
>>>> To: patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>; Tech Ops Group <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
>>>>  
>>>> Yes, definitely woolly  - and confirmed by my wife! 
>>>> BR Alec
>>>> 
>>>> sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.
>>>>  
>>>> On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, 22:09 patheigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Did anyone else notice how woolly the sound was on ?Have I Got News for you? BBC1 05/11.
>>>> I normally listen with a Bose Soundlink off my Samsung TV.
>>>> Switching to Sennheiser headphones ? no better, so tested the audio chain by playing a CD which goes into the TV via a Sony DVD/CD player. Sounded good ? it was an Xavier Cugat Latin American 1958, with lots of hf instruments ? all sounded good, so I don?t think it was my ears!
>>>> Pat
>>>>  
>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> www.avast.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Nov  7 03:43:28 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 09:43:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
In-Reply-To: <769CDE37-0AA8-4BEF-A3D0-DAA3568A6923@gmail.com>
References: <3B110D7B-626B-486D-B6B9-413ED30014CF@mac.com>
	<769CDE37-0AA8-4BEF-A3D0-DAA3568A6923@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <61879fc0.1c69fb81.bb4b2.5ac4@mx.google.com>

An interesting counter situation arose on a drama I shot.
Scene on a narrow staircase passage, tiled all over and very echoey.
Taking the dialogue on a boom, not radios, I had to ask the actor to tone down his delivery, as it was bouncing around and resulting in a grand unintelligible muddle. He was highly surprised, as he had often been asked for more voice! But he quite understood the problem and obliged.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1
Sent: 07 November 2021 09:33
To: Mike Giles
Cc: Tech Ops
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Woolly Sound

It?s why I didn?t name the individuals but I can?t help noticing the problem with how they speak and keep wondering how I or anyone could help them. I wish I was still working and might have been able to have a private word after weighing up whether they would listen and not take offence, as none is intended.
The frustrating thing is that both could do so much better with the kind of friendly help that we as professionals used to give to each other and someone should be offering that to them in a way they would find acceptable,
Geoff





On 6 Nov 2021, at 23:47, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
?
It?s not only actors who need to learn to speak clearly 



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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sun Nov  7 03:46:45 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 09:46:45 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Blue carbon
In-Reply-To: <4F03B859-8EC3-45CE-9F1D-BDFFBFC2F8B2@mac.com>
References: <9B14CCA1B4D04794A0ED28DF38BD7EFB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<4F03B859-8EC3-45CE-9F1D-BDFFBFC2F8B2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <D1124C9A7E2E421AB879132AC4C83137@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

On the same day as my post, the ever impressive Ros Atkins has done a thought provoking review of the issues surrounding mass tree planting and the phenomenon of carbon offset. I find him one of the very best when it comes to addressing topical matters and in this case the essence of what he is saying calls into question the wisdom of a fair slice of what is being promulgated and signed up to at cop26.        https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-59177088

Dave Newbitt.

From: M E GILES via Tech1 
Sent: Saturday, November 6, 2021 4:18 PM
To: Tech Ops 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Blue carbon

I don?t remember it, Dave. It sounds almost too good to be true, but I surely hope it is and that the significance is not overlooked ~ seems like a case of ?can?t see the marsh for the trees?, to paraphrase that all too frequently true adage. 

Mike G




  On 6 Nov 2021, at 15:42, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

  Has this topic been aired before on any previous thread?

  <image[1].png>

  ?Dangerous blindspot?: why overlooking blue carbon could sink us.

  Karen McVeigh.  Nov. 6th

  When the ambitious plan to allow sea water to flood over the Steart peninsula in Somerset was completed in 2014, critics called it a waste of money. Floods had recently blighted the nearby area, and some local people argued the ?20m spent on creating a new 250-hectare (617-acre) salt marsh would have been better spent on other flood-prevention projects.
  Seven years ago, the concept of ?blue carbon? ? how marine ecosystems store carbon ? was in its infancy. Some research had looked at how mangrove forests absorb carbon, but little was known about how effective seagrass and salt marshes also were at absorbing greenhouse gas emissions.

  The two groups behind the salt marsh ? the Environment Agency and the Wildfowl & Wetlands Trust (WWT) ? barely mentioned the climate. They said the purpose of the marsh was to protect the coast from erosion and create a new valuable habitat for birdlife. Ian Liddell-Grainger, MP for Bridgwater and West Somerset, called the marsh an ?extravagant, ridiculous scheme? that put birds ahead of humans.

  Trees and peat can take us so far, but blue carbon ecosystems, such as salt marshes, can take us further

  Less than eight years later, however, everything has changed. Blue carbon is at the forefront of the fight against the climate crisis ? and as world leaders gather at Cop26, evidence has emerged that the Steart marsh could be a more powerful carbon sink than anybody imagined.

  Scientists at Manchester Metropolitan University found that Steart marshes absorbed 19 tonnes of organic carbon a hectare every year, or 18,000 tonnes in four years ? the equivalent of eliminating the greenhouse gas emissions of 32,900 cars. Their work is part of a growing body of research suggesting blue carbon is an order of magnitude more efficient than its terrestrial equivalent.

  ?The carbon storage at Steart is phenomenal,? says Tim McGrath, head of project development at WWT, which manages the salt marsh. ?These exceptional findings could indicate that the carbon storage potential of restoring salt marsh around the UK coast has been underestimated.?

  It would take 100 years for a woodland to sequester and store as much carbon as Steart can store in six years, McGrath says. ?Trees and peat can take us so far, but blue carbon ecosystems, such as salt marshes, can take us further. It?s time governments seized this opportunity.?

  But as world leaders at Cop26 earlier pledge to end deforestation by 2030, campaigners and marine conservationists say the powerful carbon sinks in the ocean are being overlooked. Only 43 out of 113 countries to submit greenhouse gas inventories, or nationally determined contributions (NDCs), have included blue carbon ecosystems as part of their mitigation measures. The UK, despite being a coastal nation with vast reserves of potential blue carbon, is one of those to failing to do so.

  ?If we are not protecting and counting the blue carbon in our seas, this leaves a dangerous blindspot? for UK policy, says Ailsa McLellan, coordinator for Our Seas, a coalition of Scottish businesses, communities and environmental groups. ?It?s time we counted blue carbon, reinstated a limit on damaging methods of fishing, and put future generations first.?

  One study suggests bottom trawling could release as much carbon as global aviation emissions. Our Seas is calling on Kwasi Kwarteng, the business secretary, to establish an accounting system for blue carbon, so that marine and coastal ecosystems, including salt marshes, can be protected as part of the UK?s efforts to meet its climate goals.


   
  Dave Newbitt.









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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Nov  7 04:01:38 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 10:01:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <EFE5C355-B41B-4872-8860-AE01E86EBBC5@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<EFE5C355-B41B-4872-8860-AE01E86EBBC5@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6187a402.1c69fb81.9d0cf.3388@mx.google.com>

More likely to have been ACTT, or ACT in those days. There seemed to be a Union inspired block on adoption of new technology, probably attempting to maintain crewing strength.
When the IV-S Stereo Nagra appeared, my mixer, Sandy, seized upon it as a wonderful opportunity to record radio mics separately from a boom. However the transfer chaps at Thames wanted double money for transferring two simultaneous tracks to magnetic, demanding that a choice should be made as to which track was to be handled. Not the point at all! What would be the case today with digital recorders offering 16+ track capture?
One feels that the job description has reverted to ?sound recordist? as opposed to ?mixer? although a rough mix is carried out for rushes viewing and if good enough, could be used as the end master balance.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

On 7 Nov 2021, at 06:52, Peter Fox <peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk> wrote:
?I recall it being known as ?Addivision? ?It?s main problem was that the Union (probably ABS) objected to the use of film cameras without appropriate film department pay grades, since clearly that was the intention, hence deadlock and the equipment remained herded into a cage in the corner of, or next to, a Riverside studio. After months gathering dust it disappeared again. And that was that?
Peter Fox





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From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 04:08:42 2021
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (David Denness)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 10:08:42 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>
	<03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000501d7d3bf$71f0f4f0$55d2ded0$@gmail.com>

There were two similar systems in use around that time. A 16mm version was called Gemini which was installed in Granville Studio and used extensively to shoot magazine shows for the British Council for distribution to Commonwealth countries. The 35mm system was Addvision, used at Intertel Studio at Stonebridge Park for Rock and Roll Circus.

The union members most upset were in the film division of ACTT as I recall

Dave D

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Peter Fox via Tech1
Sent: 07 November 2021 06:52
To: dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com>
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?

 

I recall it being known as ?Addivision?  It?s main problem was that the Union (probably ABS) objected to the use of film cameras without appropriate film department pay grades, since clearly that was the intention, hence deadlock and the equipment remained herded into a cage in the corner of, or next to, a Riverside studio. After months gathering dust it disappeared again. And that was that?

Peter Fox


On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

? 

I seem to remember that there were several in the studio and were used like conventional electronic cameras and only ran when cut-up on a mixer! The bits were glued together later - it didn't seem to last long as an experiment! Cheers, Dave 

On 06/11/2021 20:48, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote:

I think the system was called Gemini. 

Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. 





On 6 Nov 2021, at 20:45, Bernard Newnham via Tech1  <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? Sky Arts is running that Rolling Stones circus concert, recorded (filmed) on these.  I think the BBC tried them out at Riverside, but I can't remember what they were called.

B

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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Nov  7 04:10:18 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 10:10:18 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
In-Reply-To: <769CDE37-0AA8-4BEF-A3D0-DAA3568A6923@gmail.com>
References: <769CDE37-0AA8-4BEF-A3D0-DAA3568A6923@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <33241433-F00D-489A-B0A1-5C697FB176EF@me.com>

If I found myself working with a presenter or actor who didn?t speak sufficiently clearly, I would generally suggest that if they spoke a little slower or more thoughtfully, they would bring even more gravitas or authority to what they were saying. I would accompany the word gravitas with an expansive hand gesture.

If while making the recording I still had line of sight to the presenter, I could catch their eye and repeat the hand gesture to remind them of the need for gravitas.

We spend much our lives trying to make silk purses out of pig?s ears.  Our task is made a little easier if the pig?s ears we start with can be of a slightly higher quality.

Alan Taylor

> On 7 Nov 2021, at 09:34, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?It?s why I didn?t name the individuals but I can?t help noticing the problem with how they speak and keep wondering how I or anyone could help them. I wish I was still working and might have been able to have a private word after weighing up whether they would listen and not take offence, as none is intended.
> The frustrating thing is that both could do so much better with the kind of friendly help that we as professionals used to give to each other and someone should be offering that to them in a way they would find acceptable,
> Geoff
> 
>>> On 7 Nov 2021, at 00:39, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> You?re in danger of falling into the ?R? trap Geoff - in both cases. I agree, but hesitate to offer a solution. 
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 23:47, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ?
>>> It?s not only actors who need to learn to speak clearly but presenters too. One of those who recently joined the Today team and who occasionally presents Start The Week speaks far too fast that it amounts to a jabber. His words aren?t properly formed as you can see by watching his lips when he appears in vision on the news or elsewhere. It winds me up and makes for unnecessarily difficult listening as I have to listen hard and concentrate when I?m not just sitting down but getting on with the day as most listeners will be.
>>> One of the continuity announcers on Radio 4 who sometimes reads the news bulletins speaks in a very stilted and plummy voice, often placing the emphasis on the wrong syllables and mis-pronouncing words as though he struggles with the English language. Recently he pronounced the word poultry as though it was two words, pole tree, more than once. He obviously needs help to make him sound more natural and to get the pronunciation right.
>>> I wonder why none of their colleagues or managers offer either of these people coaching or training which is what they need,
>>> Geoff
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Geoff
>>>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 11:58, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>> ? The perspex is certainly a factor, but another is that with Covid and social distancing there?s a need to let the talent fit their own personal mics whenever possible, particularly with regulars who we?ve hopefully shown how to do it. But when they turn up in clothing that requires a bit more thought and expertise, we?re onto a loser.
>>>> 
>>>> Taking up Pat?s invitation to make three wishes, one of mine would be that we could un-invent personal mics and radio mics. The second would be that if it?s only ever going to be shown on telly, then ffs shoot it in 16x9. The third would be that actors could learn to speak clearly. 
>>>> Just imagine how nice TV drama could be if those wishes were granted!
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Nick.
>>>> 
>>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>>> 
>>>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 08:48, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?
>>>>> The sound on this and other panel shows seems to me to have been affected by the Perspex screens erected between panel members
>>>>>  
>>>>> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alec Bray via Tech1
>>>>> Sent: 06 November 2021 08:25
>>>>> To: patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>; Tech Ops Group <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Woolly Sound
>>>>>  
>>>>> Yes, definitely woolly  - and confirmed by my wife! 
>>>>> BR Alec
>>>>> 
>>>>> sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.
>>>>>  
>>>>> On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, 22:09 patheigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Did anyone else notice how woolly the sound was on ?Have I Got News for you? BBC1 05/11.
>>>>> I normally listen with a Bose Soundlink off my Samsung TV.
>>>>> Switching to Sennheiser headphones ? no better, so tested the audio chain by playing a CD which goes into the TV via a Sony DVD/CD player. Sounded good ? it was an Xavier Cugat Latin American 1958, with lots of hf instruments ? all sounded good, so I don?t think it was my ears!
>>>>> Pat
>>>>>  
>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> www.avast.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
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>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Nov  7 04:17:36 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 10:17:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Boom mics & gravity
In-Reply-To: <F8EB0A34388F4FAB810E28FA2FCD6CC7@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <1391783660.54193.YahooMailNeo@web87703.mail.ir2.yahoo.com><4C88CBFBA13D4478A1BB87143F1923A1@PATRICKSONY><1391876203.66224.YahooMailNeo@web87704.mail.ir2.yahoo.com><75CE979F0B834193BE5E2EC84FAC295E@PATRICKSONY><52F69B9D.7060405@howell61.f9.co.uk><F3F18702-B13F-436B-857C-FEB5C9DC2F9A@mac.com><E4FC254F-D73C-49B3-88C3-6777C0629393@mac.com><a54c463c-6e40-4081-686a-80b20a7056db@btinternet.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981E70BE58448548F52364AA78F9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<F8EB0A34388F4FAB810E28FA2FCD6CC7@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <6187a7c0.1c69fb81.3f8ab.017b@mx.google.com>

I recall a tale of Arthur Rigby, playing the desk sergeant, never bothering to learn his lines, pasting the script inside the desk ledger. Some of the crew mischievely unfastened the pages and mixed them up! As the show was live then, much panic from Arthur!
Another story concerned the appearance of Bob Hope on the Palladium Show. He insisted on having the first row of the stalls cleared so that his script could be on ?idiot? boards propped up on the seats. Tommy Trinder, the current M/C thought this unprofessional and in his introduction, ran through all Hope?s jokes, telling the audience what was to come, leaving Hope with massive egg on face as his act had been done! Trinder got fired as a result, I believe.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: David Newbitt via Tech1
Sent: 06 November 2021 23:16
To: Nick Ware; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Boom mics & gravity

Evenin? all. Worked on a fair few Dixon of Dock Greens. Seem to remember in his later years Jack regularly needed a few takes for his opening monologue. Couldn?t resort to Desk Sergeant Flint?s ruse of little aide memoire notes inside the upturned helmet or elsewhere on the station desk. Arthur Rigby, Peter Byrne et al ? God, it makes you feel old!
?
Dave Newbitt.
?



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From davesound at btinternet.com  Sun Nov  7 05:03:45 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 11:03:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <6187a402.1c69fb81.9d0cf.3388@mx.google.com>
References: <03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<EFE5C355-B41B-4872-8860-AE01E86EBBC5@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<6187a402.1c69fb81.9d0cf.3388@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <48da8abd-b02d-afb3-af50-c0e46a9ade52@btinternet.com>

Standard union practice, Pat. When new technology comes in, do a deal on 
it. Not just accept it willy-nilly. ACTT were very good at that - unlike 
the very silly print unions. Of course today, there are effectively no 
unions in our industry. And largely freelance working. I know which 
system I prefer.

On 07/11/2021 10:01, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> More likely to have been ACTT, or ACT in those days. There seemed to 
> be a Union inspired block on adoption of new technology, probably 
> attempting to maintain crewing strength.
>
> When the IV-S Stereo Nagra appeared, my mixer, Sandy, seized upon it 
> as a wonderful opportunity to record radio mics separately from a 
> boom. However the transfer chaps at Thames wanted double money for 
> transferring two simultaneous tracks to magnetic, demanding that a 
> choice should be made as to which track was to be handled. Not the 
> point at all! What would be the case today with digital recorders 
> offering 16+ track capture?
>
> One feels that the job description has reverted to ?sound recordist? 
> as opposed to ?mixer? although a rough mix is carried out for rushes 
> viewing and if good enough, could be used as the end master balance.
>
> Pat
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows
>
> On 7 Nov 2021, at 06:52, Peter Fox <peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?I recall it being known as ?Addivision? ?It?s main problem was that 
> the Union (probably ABS) objected to the use of film cameras without 
> appropriate film department pay grades, since clearly that was the 
> intention, hence deadlock and the equipment remained herded into a 
> cage in the corner of, or next to, a Riverside studio. After months 
> gathering dust it disappeared again. And that was that?
>
> Peter Fox
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
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>
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>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Nov  7 05:05:53 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 11:05:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Christmas Cheer!
Message-ID: <6187b311.1c69fb81.8f7de.61a3@mx.google.com>

Now we have got past Bonfire Night, it?s time to think about Christmas. Bah! Humbug!
I attach a recipe for Scandinavian Mulled Wine, known as Glogg. It?s lethal! (Although I believe that heating the spirit element drives off some of the alcohol.
This was in the magazine on an SAS flight from Sweden, near to the festive time, and I was highly amused when one of the stewards came through the cabin, dressed like the Swedish Chef from the Muppets!

Taking a taxi in Stockholm, I was intrigued by a Perspex shield surrounding the driver?s seat. I enquired what it was for. The driver explained that after a night out, blokes liked to hang round your neck and tearfully relate all their romantic troubles, then throwing up!
(Oh! My reason for a taxi ? we had surrendered the hire car keys ? but I had left my passport in the hotel room safe! Stupid boy!).
Sadly, passports don?t get stamped so much these days. I constructed a list of all the places I?d filmed in, for a friend?s granddaughter to whom I?d given a large wall World Map, for her interest. I was surprised at the range of destinations.
(Attached). None of them would have been possible had I not left the BBC, although I really enjoyed my eight years there.
Maybe if I had transferred to the Film Unit, some foreign travel ? but it didn?t work out like that.
However I am grateful for an absolutely fascinating and super career.

Best wishes
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows



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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sun Nov  7 05:28:32 2021
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 11:28:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <48da8abd-b02d-afb3-af50-c0e46a9ade52@btinternet.com>
References: <48da8abd-b02d-afb3-af50-c0e46a9ade52@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <F2BE0DDD-4B5F-416D-AD6A-910D8E2E9DA0@zero51.force9.co.uk>

At that time, say 1968,69 I was on the same crew as Peter Ware and he was an outspoken ABS member and very much against the Addavision concept. Without proper remuneration that is! It was the ABS who held sway in BBC Television rather than the ACCT. who werent ?recognised? by BBC TV anyway iirc.

Peter Fox

On 7 Nov 2021, at 11:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Standard union practice, Pat. When new technology comes in, do a deal on it. Not just accept it willy-nilly. ACTT were very good at that - unlike the very silly print unions. Of course today, there are effectively no unions in our industry. And largely freelance working. I know which system I prefer.

On 07/11/2021 10:01, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
> More likely to have been ACTT, or ACT in those days. There seemed to be a Union inspired block on adoption of new technology, probably attempting to maintain crewing strength.
> When the IV-S Stereo Nagra appeared, my mixer, Sandy, seized upon it as a wonderful opportunity to record radio mics separately from a boom. However the transfer chaps at Thames wanted double money for transferring two simultaneous tracks to magnetic, demanding that a choice should be made as to which track was to be handled. Not the point at all! What would be the case today with digital recorders offering 16+ track capture?
> One feels that the job description has reverted to ?sound recordist? as opposed to ?mixer? although a rough mix is carried out for rushes viewing and if good enough, could be used as the end master balance.
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> On 7 Nov 2021, at 06:52, Peter Fox <peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I recall it being known as ?Addivision?  It?s main problem was that the Union (probably ABS) objected to the use of film cameras without appropriate film department pay grades, since clearly that was the intention, hence deadlock and the equipment remained herded into a cage in the corner of, or next to, a Riverside studio. After months gathering dust it disappeared again. And that was that?
> 
> Peter Fox
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Nov  7 05:32:03 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 11:32:03 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <48da8abd-b02d-afb3-af50-c0e46a9ade52@btinternet.com>
References: <03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<EFE5C355-B41B-4872-8860-AE01E86EBBC5@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<6187a402.1c69fb81.9d0cf.3388@mx.google.com>
	<48da8abd-b02d-afb3-af50-c0e46a9ade52@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <6187b933.1c69fb81.b184f.6a8a@mx.google.com>

Whilst I was rather anti-union, it was necessary to belong in order to work.
I got my ACT ticket at the BBC, but it made the transfer to the Film Industry very smooth.
A story concerning ?Puppet on a Chain? shot in Amsterdam:
On arriving at the Hotel and finding my production mixer in the bar. ?Don?t unload? he said, ? It might not happen?
Apparently ACT were unhappy with the offered deal. There was not a lot of work about and the crew was keen to stay and get something. Les Wiles from ACT was coming to see us. It was arranged that he would be met at the airport, wined and dined, and when he met us all, we all swore that we were happy with the deal, and packed him off home.
Trouble was, when the producer, Kurt Unger (I?m naming names) realised that we had ditched the protection of the Union, capitalised on that. While he stuck to the deal for daylight shooting, when it came to the night work, he would pay us only ?10 extra (1970).
The film did not get a good review, one spoke of the lead actor being ?charmless?. His co-star, Barbara Parkins was delightful, very petite but in perfect proportion- yes, I fell for her!

Re: the print industry ? I filmed on a night shoot for the very last print run of the Express in Fleet Street. Fascinating, the web tore (that was the huge roll of paper). But later, filming in their new premises with everyone at computer terminals, the general feeling amongst the ?hacks? that what was missing, was the interchange and rumour mongering that prevailed in Fleet Street pubs.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 07 November 2021 11:04
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?

Standard union practice, Pat. When new technology comes in, do a deal on it. Not just accept it willy-nilly. ACTT were very good at that - unlike the very silly print unions. Of course today, there are effectively no unions in our industry. And largely freelance working. I know which system I prefer.



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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 06:17:57 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 12:17:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <000501d7d3bf$71f0f4f0$55d2ded0$@gmail.com>
References: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>
	<03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<000501d7d3bf$71f0f4f0$55d2ded0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ed9a9570-ed3f-b43c-f736-b8ff46041811@gmail.com>

I think I now remember that it was invented in the US for much 
syndicated shows like I Love Lucy - which is presumably why we are still 
privileged to be able to watch it.?? Did they roll the cameras at the 
beginning of each scene and cut the video feed for the audience?

On thinking about the Riverside experiment, I seem to link the name Bob 
Baxter and Mogul, or maybe Troubleshooters......?

B


On 07/11/2021 10:08, David Denness via Tech1 wrote:
>
> There were two similar systems in use around that time. A 16mm version 
> was called Gemini which was installed in Granville Studio and used 
> extensively to shoot magazine shows for the British Council for 
> distribution to Commonwealth countries. The 35mm system was Addvision, 
> used at Intertel Studio at Stonebridge Park for Rock and Roll Circus.
>
> The union members most upset were in the film division of ACTT as I recall
>
> Dave D
>
> *From:*Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> *On Behalf Of *Peter Fox 
> via Tech1
> *Sent:* 07 November 2021 06:52
> *To:* dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com>
> *Cc:* Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] What's this?
>
> I recall it being known as ?Addivision? ?It?s main problem was that 
> the Union (probably ABS) objected to the use of film cameras without 
> appropriate film department pay grades, since clearly that was the 
> intention, hence deadlock and the equipment remained herded into a 
> cage in the corner of, or next to, a Riverside studio. After months 
> gathering dust it disappeared again. And that was that?
>
> Peter Fox
>
>
> On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> I seem to remember that there were several in the studio and were used 
> like conventional electronic cameras and only ran when cut-up on a 
> mixer! The bits were glued together later - it didn't seem to last 
> long as an experiment! Cheers, Dave
>
> On 06/11/2021 20:48, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote:
>
>     I think the system was called Gemini.
>
>     Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions.
>
>
>
>         On 6 Nov 2021, at 20:45, Bernard Newnham via Tech1
>         <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>         ? Sky Arts is running that Rolling Stones circus concert,
>         recorded (filmed) on these.? I think the BBC tried them out at
>         Riverside, but I can't remember what they were called.
>
>         B
>
>         -- 
>         Tech1 mailing list
>         Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>         http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
>
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> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Nov  7 06:24:16 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 12:24:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <ed9a9570-ed3f-b43c-f736-b8ff46041811@gmail.com>
References: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>
	<03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<000501d7d3bf$71f0f4f0$55d2ded0$@gmail.com>
	<ed9a9570-ed3f-b43c-f736-b8ff46041811@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6187c570.1c69fb81.1a7d0.32cc@mx.google.com>

I have a hazy memory of the fact that the film element was cued to run just before the vision mixer cut ? how, I don?t know, but a small cue light in the camera put a flash photographically onto the film.
Does this ring bells with anyone?
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 07 November 2021 12:18
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?

I think I now remember that it was invented in the US for much syndicated shows like I Love Lucy - which is presumably why we are still privileged to be able to watch it.?? Did they roll the cameras at the beginning of each scene and cut the video feed for the audience? 

On thinking about the Riverside experiment, I seem to link the name Bob Baxter and Mogul, or maybe Troubleshooters......?

B

On 07/11/2021 10:08, David Denness via Tech1 wrote:
There were two similar systems in use around that time. A 16mm version was called Gemini which was installed in Granville Studio and used extensively to shoot magazine shows for the British Council for distribution to Commonwealth countries. The 35mm system was Addvision, used at Intertel Studio at Stonebridge Park for Rock and Roll Circus.
The union members most upset were in the film division of ACTT as I recall
Dave D
?
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Peter Fox via Tech1
Sent: 07 November 2021 06:52
To: dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com>
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?
?
I recall it being known as ?Addivision? ?It?s main problem was that the Union (probably ABS) objected to the use of film cameras without appropriate film department pay grades, since clearly that was the intention, hence deadlock and the equipment remained herded into a cage in the corner of, or next to, a Riverside studio. After months gathering dust it disappeared again. And that was that?
Peter Fox

On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
? 
I seem to remember that there were several in the studio and were used like conventional electronic cameras and only ran when cut-up on a mixer! The bits were glued together later - it didn't seem to last long as an experiment! Cheers, Dave 
On 06/11/2021 20:48, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote:
I think the system was called Gemini.?
Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions.?



On 6 Nov 2021, at 20:45, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
? Sky Arts is running that Rolling Stones circus concert, recorded (filmed) on these.? I think the BBC tried them out at Riverside, but I can't remember what they were called.

B

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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Sun Nov  7 06:46:23 2021
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 12:46:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <000501d7d3bf$71f0f4f0$55d2ded0$@gmail.com>
References: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>
	<03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<000501d7d3bf$71f0f4f0$55d2ded0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EAE7ED55-37C6-499D-85A1-B3637C95DA94@btinternet.com>

Ah yes!?.Granville Studios??..the Bert Power TV Co.! Lots of pocket money!
Barry.



On 7 Nov 2021, at 10:08, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> There were two similar systems in use around that time. A 16mm version was called Gemini which was installed in Granville Studio and used extensively to shoot magazine shows for the British Council for distribution to Commonwealth countries. The 35mm system was Addvision, used at Intertel Studio at Stonebridge Park for Rock and Roll Circus.
> The union members most upset were in the film division of ACTT as I recall
> Dave D
>  
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Peter Fox via Tech1
> Sent: 07 November 2021 06:52
> To: dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com>
> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?
>  
> I recall it being known as ?Addivision?  It?s main problem was that the Union (probably ABS) objected to the use of film cameras without appropriate film department pay grades, since clearly that was the intention, hence deadlock and the equipment remained herded into a cage in the corner of, or next to, a Riverside studio. After months gathering dust it disappeared again. And that was that?
> 
> Peter Fox
> 
> On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I seem to remember that there were several in the studio and were used like conventional electronic cameras and only ran when cut-up on a mixer! The bits were glued together later - it didn't seem to last long as an experiment! Cheers, Dave
> 
> On 06/11/2021 20:48, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote:
> I think the system was called Gemini. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. 
> 
> 
> On 6 Nov 2021, at 20:45, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Sky Arts is running that Rolling Stones circus concert, recorded (filmed) on these.  I think the BBC tried them out at Riverside, but I can't remember what they were called.
> 
> B
> 
> <image001.png>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
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> 
> 
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From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 06:55:59 2021
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (David Denness)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 12:55:59 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <6187c570.1c69fb81.1a7d0.32cc@mx.google.com>
References: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>	<03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>	<000501d7d3bf$71f0f4f0$55d2ded0$@gmail.com>	<ed9a9570-ed3f-b43c-f736-b8ff46041811@gmail.com>
	<6187c570.1c69fb81.1a7d0.32cc@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <002f01d7d3d6$d0663420$71329c60$@gmail.com>

Pat,

Not true. The film ran continuously and a light exposed the optical sound track on the film when the red light was on .

Dave D

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of patheigham via Tech1
Sent: 07 November 2021 12:24
To: Bernard Newnham <bernie833 at gmail.com>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?

 

I have a hazy memory of the fact that the film element was cued to run just before the vision mixer cut ? how, I don?t know, but a small cue light in the camera put a flash photographically onto the film.

Does this ring bells with anyone?

Pat

 

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows

 

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Sent: 07 November 2021 12:18
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?

 

I think I now remember that it was invented in the US for much syndicated shows like I Love Lucy - which is presumably why we are still privileged to be able to watch it.   Did they roll the cameras at the beginning of each scene and cut the video feed for the audience? 

On thinking about the Riverside experiment, I seem to link the name Bob Baxter and Mogul, or maybe Troubleshooters......?

B

On 07/11/2021 10:08, David Denness via Tech1 wrote:

There were two similar systems in use around that time. A 16mm version was called Gemini which was installed in Granville Studio and used extensively to shoot magazine shows for the British Council for distribution to Commonwealth countries. The 35mm system was Addvision, used at Intertel Studio at Stonebridge Park for Rock and Roll Circus.

The union members most upset were in the film division of ACTT as I recall

Dave D

 

From: Tech1  <mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Peter Fox via Tech1
Sent: 07 November 2021 06:52
To: dave.mdv  <mailto:dave.mdv at btinternet.com> <dave.mdv at btinternet.com>
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?

 

I recall it being known as ?Addivision?  It?s main problem was that the Union (probably ABS) objected to the use of film cameras without appropriate film department pay grades, since clearly that was the intention, hence deadlock and the equipment remained herded into a cage in the corner of, or next to, a Riverside studio. After months gathering dust it disappeared again. And that was that?

Peter Fox


On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

? 

I seem to remember that there were several in the studio and were used like conventional electronic cameras and only ran when cut-up on a mixer! The bits were glued together later - it didn't seem to last long as an experiment! Cheers, Dave 

On 06/11/2021 20:48, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote:

I think the system was called Gemini. 

Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. 





On 6 Nov 2021, at 20:45, Bernard Newnham via Tech1  <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? Sky Arts is running that Rolling Stones circus concert, recorded (filmed) on these.  I think the BBC tried them out at Riverside, but I can't remember what they were called.

B

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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Sun Nov  7 07:00:07 2021
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 13:00:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <6187c570.1c69fb81.1a7d0.32cc@mx.google.com>
References: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>
	<03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<000501d7d3bf$71f0f4f0$55d2ded0$@gmail.com>
	<ed9a9570-ed3f-b43c-f736-b8ff46041811@gmail.com>
	<6187c570.1c69fb81.1a7d0.32cc@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CF3778E1-5CC4-4D3C-A609-941FCEC7E3B5@btinternet.com>

It certainly was pre-rolled at Granvilles.
Barry.



On 7 Nov 2021, at 12:24, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I have a hazy memory of the fact that the film element was cued to run just before the vision mixer cut ? how, I don?t know, but a small cue light in the camera put a flash photographically onto the film.
> Does this ring bells with anyone?
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
> Sent: 07 November 2021 12:18
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?
>  
> I think I now remember that it was invented in the US for much syndicated shows like I Love Lucy - which is presumably why we are still privileged to be able to watch it.   Did they roll the cameras at the beginning of each scene and cut the video feed for the audience? 
> 
> On thinking about the Riverside experiment, I seem to link the name Bob Baxter and Mogul, or maybe Troubleshooters......?
> 
> B
> 
> 
> On 07/11/2021 10:08, David Denness via Tech1 wrote:
> There were two similar systems in use around that time. A 16mm version was called Gemini which was installed in Granville Studio and used extensively to shoot magazine shows for the British Council for distribution to Commonwealth countries. The 35mm system was Addvision, used at Intertel Studio at Stonebridge Park for Rock and Roll Circus.
> The union members most upset were in the film division of ACTT as I recall
> Dave D
>  
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Peter Fox via Tech1
> Sent: 07 November 2021 06:52
> To: dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com>
> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?
>  
> I recall it being known as ?Addivision?  It?s main problem was that the Union (probably ABS) objected to the use of film cameras without appropriate film department pay grades, since clearly that was the intention, hence deadlock and the equipment remained herded into a cage in the corner of, or next to, a Riverside studio. After months gathering dust it disappeared again. And that was that?
> 
> Peter Fox
> 
> On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I seem to remember that there were several in the studio and were used like conventional electronic cameras and only ran when cut-up on a mixer! The bits were glued together later - it didn't seem to last long as an experiment! Cheers, Dave
> 
> On 06/11/2021 20:48, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote:
> I think the system was called Gemini. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6 Nov 2021, at 20:45, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Sky Arts is running that Rolling Stones circus concert, recorded (filmed) on these.  I think the BBC tried them out at Riverside, but I can't remember what they were called.
> 
> B
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
>  
>  
> 
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> 	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
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From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 07:00:33 2021
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (David Denness)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 13:00:33 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <EAE7ED55-37C6-499D-85A1-B3637C95DA94@btinternet.com>
References: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>
	<03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<000501d7d3bf$71f0f4f0$55d2ded0$@gmail.com>
	<EAE7ED55-37C6-499D-85A1-B3637C95DA94@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <003501d7d3d7$73c245a0$5b46d0e0$@gmail.com>

Did you know Bert spent a little while as a prison officer but quit after a few weeks as he didn?t like the violence, amongst the officers!

He then joined the IEA studio in Battersea which is the last place I saw him, a truly lovely man.

Dave D

From: Barry Bonner <barrybonner119 at btinternet.com> 
Sent: 07 November 2021 12:46
To: David Denness <ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com>
Cc: Peter Fox <peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk>; Dave Mundy <dave.mdv at btinternet.com>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?

 

Ah yes!?.Granville Studios??..the Bert Power TV Co.! Lots of pocket money!

Barry.

 

 

On 7 Nov 2021, at 10:08, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:





There were two similar systems in use around that time. A 16mm version was called Gemini which was installed in Granville Studio and used extensively to shoot magazine shows for the British Council for distribution to Commonwealth countries. The 35mm system was Addvision, used at Intertel Studio at Stonebridge Park for Rock and Roll Circus.

The union members most upset were in the film division of ACTT as I recall

Dave D

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> > On Behalf Of Peter Fox via Tech1
Sent: 07 November 2021 06:52
To: dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com <mailto:dave.mdv at btinternet.com> >
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?

 

I recall it being known as ?Addivision?  It?s main problem was that the Union (probably ABS) objected to the use of film cameras without appropriate film department pay grades, since clearly that was the intention, hence deadlock and the equipment remained herded into a cage in the corner of, or next to, a Riverside studio. After months gathering dust it disappeared again. And that was that?

Peter Fox


On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

?

I seem to remember that there were several in the studio and were used like conventional electronic cameras and only ran when cut-up on a mixer! The bits were glued together later - it didn't seem to last long as an experiment! Cheers, Dave

On 06/11/2021 20:48, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote:

I think the system was called Gemini. 

Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. 






On 6 Nov 2021, at 20:45, Bernard Newnham via Tech1  <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? Sky Arts is running that Rolling Stones circus concert, recorded (filmed) on these.  I think the BBC tried them out at Riverside, but I can't remember what they were called.

B

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Nov  7 07:09:08 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 13:09:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <002f01d7d3d6$d0663420$71329c60$@gmail.com>
References: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>
	<03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<000501d7d3bf$71f0f4f0$55d2ded0$@gmail.com>
	<ed9a9570-ed3f-b43c-f736-b8ff46041811@gmail.com>
	<6187c570.1c69fb81.1a7d0.32cc@mx.google.com>
	<002f01d7d3d6$d0663420$71329c60$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6187cff4.1c69fb81.55545.50e6@mx.google.com>

Thanks, Dave,
At least my clue about the cue light was somewhere near!
Pat
Sent from Mail for Windows

From: David Denness
Sent: 07 November 2021 12:56
To: 'patheigham'; 'Bernard Newnham'
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: RE: [Tech1] What's this?

Pat,
Not true. The film ran continuously and a light exposed the optical sound track on the film when the red light was on .
Dave D

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of patheigham via Tech1
Sent: 07 November 2021 12:24
To: Bernard Newnham <bernie833 at gmail.com>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?

I have a hazy memory of the fact that the film element was cued to run just before the vision mixer cut ? how, I don?t know, but a small cue light in the camera put a flash photographically onto the film.
Does this ring bells with anyone?
Pat




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From alawrance1 at me.com  Sun Nov  7 08:23:06 2021
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 14:23:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <003501d7d3d7$73c245a0$5b46d0e0$@gmail.com>
References: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>
	<03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<000501d7d3bf$71f0f4f0$55d2ded0$@gmail.com>
	<EAE7ED55-37C6-499D-85A1-B3637C95DA94@btinternet.com>
	<003501d7d3d7$73c245a0$5b46d0e0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D795A30C-DAC4-471C-B45D-C19FAC391EFE@me.com>

I was with ILEA in Battersea from about 1973 (from memory - I will have to check), and I don't remember a 'Bert', although as I was mostly in the Mobile Section, that's not surprising. Latterly I was head of Cameras, but that was studio based.

The Chief Engineer was Walter Kemp, who had a role in Granville/Gemini.  I sometimes had the impression he had invested in it, as well as being operational, but I've no evidence for that.

Alasdair Lawrance
alawrance1 at me.com

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.










> On 7 Nov 2021, at 13:00, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Did you know Bert spent a little while as a prison officer but quit after a few weeks as he didn?t like the violence, amongst the officers!
> He then joined the IEA studio in Battersea which is the last place I saw him, a truly lovely man.
> Dave D
> From: Barry Bonner <barrybonner119 at btinternet.com <mailto:barrybonner119 at btinternet.com>> 
> Sent: 07 November 2021 12:46
> To: David Denness <ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com <mailto:ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com>>
> Cc: Peter Fox <peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk <mailto:peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk>>; Dave Mundy <dave.mdv at btinternet.com <mailto:dave.mdv at btinternet.com>>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?
>  
> Ah yes!?.Granville Studios??..the Bert Power TV Co.! Lots of pocket money!
> Barry.
>  
> 
>  
> On 7 Nov 2021, at 10:08, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
> 
>> There were two similar systems in use around that time. A 16mm version was called Gemini which was installed in Granville Studio and used extensively to shoot magazine shows for the British Council for distribution to Commonwealth countries. The 35mm system was Addvision, used at Intertel Studio at Stonebridge Park for Rock and Roll Circus.
>> The union members most upset were in the film division of ACTT as I recall
>> Dave D
>>  
>> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk>> On Behalf Of Peter Fox via Tech1
>> Sent: 07 November 2021 06:52
>> To: dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com <mailto:dave.mdv at btinternet.com>>
>> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?
>>  
>> I recall it being known as ?Addivision?  It?s main problem was that the Union (probably ABS) objected to the use of film cameras without appropriate film department pay grades, since clearly that was the intention, hence deadlock and the equipment remained herded into a cage in the corner of, or next to, a Riverside studio. After months gathering dust it disappeared again. And that was that?
>> 
>> Peter Fox
>> 
>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> I seem to remember that there were several in the studio and were used like conventional electronic cameras and only ran when cut-up on a mixer! The bits were glued together later - it didn't seem to last long as an experiment! Cheers, Dave
>> On 06/11/2021 20:48, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote:
>>> I think the system was called Gemini. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 6 Nov 2021, at 20:45, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ? Sky Arts is running that Rolling Stones circus concert, recorded (filmed) on these.  I think the BBC tried them out at Riverside, but I can't remember what they were called.
>>>> 
>>>> B
>>>> 
>>>> <image001.png>-- 
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>>> 
>>> 
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From ggstable at mac.com  Sun Nov  7 09:47:14 2021
From: ggstable at mac.com (GRAHAM GILES)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 15:47:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <6187c570.1c69fb81.1a7d0.32cc@mx.google.com>
References: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>
	<03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
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Message-ID: <51A42B99-6EB8-431E-AE1E-337E8F4EE6D2@mac.com>

I took part in the experiment at Riverside for several days. It was called VFR (Video Film Recording). There was a separate button for the VM to press to run each camera up to speed. It became a game to see how late before use 'on air? you could delay in pressing it. We had been given instructions not to waste film !
Does anyone remember the dates ??

GBG

On 7 Nov 2021, at 12:24, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

I have a hazy memory of the fact that the film element was cued to run just before the vision mixer cut ? how, I don?t know, but a small cue light in the camera put a flash photographically onto the film.
Does this ring bells with anyone?
Pat
 
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
 
From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 07 November 2021 12:18
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?
 
I think I now remember that it was invented in the US for much syndicated shows like I Love Lucy - which is presumably why we are still privileged to be able to watch it.   Did they roll the cameras at the beginning of each scene and cut the video feed for the audience? 

On thinking about the Riverside experiment, I seem to link the name Bob Baxter and Mogul, or maybe Troubleshooters......?

B


On 07/11/2021 10:08, David Denness via Tech1 wrote:
There were two similar systems in use around that time. A 16mm version was called Gemini which was installed in Granville Studio and used extensively to shoot magazine shows for the British Council for distribution to Commonwealth countries. The 35mm system was Addvision, used at Intertel Studio at Stonebridge Park for Rock and Roll Circus.
The union members most upset were in the film division of ACTT as I recall
Dave D
 
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> <mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Peter Fox via Tech1
Sent: 07 November 2021 06:52
To: dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com> <mailto:dave.mdv at btinternet.com>
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?
 
I recall it being known as ?Addivision?  It?s main problem was that the Union (probably ABS) objected to the use of film cameras without appropriate film department pay grades, since clearly that was the intention, hence deadlock and the equipment remained herded into a cage in the corner of, or next to, a Riverside studio. After months gathering dust it disappeared again. And that was that?

Peter Fox

On 6 Nov 2021, at 21:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

? 
I seem to remember that there were several in the studio and were used like conventional electronic cameras and only ran when cut-up on a mixer! The bits were glued together later - it didn't seem to last long as an experiment! Cheers, Dave 

On 06/11/2021 20:48, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote:
I think the system was called Gemini. 

Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. 



On 6 Nov 2021, at 20:45, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? Sky Arts is running that Rolling Stones circus concert, recorded (filmed) on these.  I think the BBC tried them out at Riverside, but I can't remember what they were called.

B

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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sun Nov  7 10:21:39 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 16:21:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <51A42B99-6EB8-431E-AE1E-337E8F4EE6D2@mac.com>
References: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>
	<03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<000501d7d3bf$71f0f4f0$55d2ded0$@gmail.com>
	<ed9a9570-ed3f-b43c-f736-b8ff46041811@gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <b8812dee-9a1f-8e32-50a7-78bfa3282b27@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 07/11/2021 15:47, GRAHAM GILES via Tech1 wrote:
> ..... We had been given instructions not to waste film !
>
Some years ago I watched a sitcom being recorded using multi-camera film 
on a Warner set in Hollywood. They trundled the (3) great 35mm cameras 
(Panavision, IIR) around on peds to a clock for start sync, and then ran 
into the scenes.

They must have run off half a mile of stock before they ever go to 
cueing the actors. Money obviously didn't come into it.

They also used grid-mounted booms sloping down at a staggeringly steep 
angle. They miked nothing like as close to the talent as we had been 
used to, but the parallax error must have been very hard to compensate for.


Chris Woolf


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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Nov  7 10:34:00 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 16:34:00 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] English Open Snooker
Message-ID: <6187fff8.1c69fb81.26f57.8b1c@mx.google.com>

Is anyone watching/listening to the coverage of the English Open Snooker on Quest+1 CH69?
There?s a constant background hum (venue air-con?)
which dips when the FX mics and commentators mics are brought up. Doesn?t anyone care enough to EQ it out?
Pat


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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 10:49:45 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 16:49:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd:  What's this?
In-Reply-To: <bcc274ed-33ad-8bea-c56a-4d9a1fdbb643@sky.com>
References: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>
	<03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<000501d7d3bf$71f0f4f0$55d2ded0$@gmail.com>
	<ed9a9570-ed3f-b43c-f736-b8ff46041811@gmail.com>
	<bcc274ed-33ad-8bea-c56a-4d9a1fdbb643@sky.com>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyGsMPmG0EZAVrVECq1zZ1OAwL0ts0gKO8wOAn0FKqjFhA@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Dave Buckley <david.jasma at sky.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021, 16:48
Subject: Re: [Tech1] What's this?
To: Bernard Newnham <bernie833 at gmail.com>


Bernie,

Yes - Troubleshooters.

When I first started at TV Training in 1969, the first afternoon of a
directors course was taken up by showing extracts from a wide range of
BBC shows. The Riverside experiment of using film cameras (with a 10
minute shoot of a Troubleshooters episode - not with the usual cast) was
one of the examples.

I had to get all the films together and getting the film experiment from
film library was like pulling teeth - the film was nearly under 'voice
lock'. The film was a 35mm colour print.

Dave Buckley




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From relong at btinternet.com  Sun Nov  7 11:52:16 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 17:52:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] What's this?
In-Reply-To: <b8812dee-9a1f-8e32-50a7-78bfa3282b27@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <9c99f810-87f9-bc11-c129-ec31f45cb1c1@btinternet.com>
	<03AF567A-8D24-4B82-8367-992AEB46F0F3@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<000501d7d3bf$71f0f4f0$55d2ded0$@gmail.com>
	<ed9a9570-ed3f-b43c-f736-b8ff46041811@gmail.com>
	<6187c570.1c69fb81.1a7d0.32cc@mx.google.com>
	<51A42B99-6EB8-431E-AE1E-337E8F4EE6D2@mac.com>
	<b8812dee-9a1f-8e32-50a7-78bfa3282b27@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <368CB668-45CB-42F4-A06E-22C8323192FF@btinternet.com>

TFS Ealing had this installed on stage 3a I think
It was never used in anger, the ABS never agreed to it.
The idea was to use the video as a cutting guide for the film editor and speed production
It worked well in the states where shows like I love Lucy were syndicated to stations and they each had a print , thats why they are readily available now
Desilu were the innovators, the system was used to great effect by Phil Silvers and Dick Van Dyke etc.
Pity the beeb never fired it up, much better than telerecording.
We filmed at Century City in 2004 (for a Clinton 3 parter for C4), they were still using a similar system for sit coms on film, Frazier etc, they had 16 stages?.
Amazing production line tv factory, something we have never come close to, even though we are now bigger than Bollywood in production value. 

> On 7 Nov 2021, at 16:21, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 07/11/2021 15:47, GRAHAM GILES via Tech1 wrote:
>> ..... We had been given instructions not to waste film !
>> 
> Some years ago I watched a sitcom being recorded using multi-camera film on a Warner set in Hollywood. They trundled the (3) great 35mm cameras (Panavision, IIR) around on peds to a clock for start sync, and then ran into the scenes.
> 
> They must have run off half a mile of stock before they ever go to cueing the actors. Money obviously didn't come into it.
> 
> They also used grid-mounted booms sloping down at a staggeringly steep angle. They miked nothing like as close to the talent as we had been used to, but the parallax error must have been very hard to compensate for.
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
>  <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>	Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> <x-msg://12/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>-- 
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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Sun Nov  7 15:19:45 2021
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 21:19:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] English Open Snooker
In-Reply-To: <6187fff8.1c69fb81.26f57.8b1c@mx.google.com>
References: <6187fff8.1c69fb81.26f57.8b1c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <C5983AEA-32AE-482B-BCCC-75392A374AEF@btinternet.com>

You mean you haven?t noticed that the audience applause dips one of the commentators?s mics?!  Tut tut! Obviously automated throughout?can?t afford a sound supervisor. 

P.S. I?m watching live on channel Quest HD Channel114
Barry.



On 7 Nov 2021, at 16:34, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Is anyone watching/listening to the coverage of the English Open Snooker on Quest+1 CH69?
> There?s a constant background hum (venue air-con?)
> which dips when the FX mics and commentators mics are brought up. Doesn?t anyone care enough to EQ it out?
> Pat
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> 
> 
> 	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
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> 
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From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Sun Nov  7 15:58:18 2021
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (David Denness)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 21:58:18 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] English Open Snooker
In-Reply-To: <C5983AEA-32AE-482B-BCCC-75392A374AEF@btinternet.com>
References: <6187fff8.1c69fb81.26f57.8b1c@mx.google.com>
	<C5983AEA-32AE-482B-BCCC-75392A374AEF@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <007601d7d422$93751760$ba5f4620$@gmail.com>

Yet another triumph for ClownBase

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Barry Bonner via
Tech1
Sent: 07 November 2021 21:20
To: patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] English Open Snooker

 

You mean you haven't noticed that the audience applause dips one of the
commentators's mics?!  Tut tut! Obviously automated throughout.can't afford
a sound supervisor. 

 

P.S. I'm watching live on channel Quest HD Channel114

Barry.

 

 

On 7 Nov 2021, at 16:34, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:





Is anyone watching/listening to the coverage of the English Open Snooker on
Quest+1 CH69?

There's a constant background hum (venue air-con?)

which dips when the FX mics and commentators mics are brought up. Doesn't
anyone care enough to EQ it out?

Pat

 

 

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows

 

 


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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Nov  7 16:06:24 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 22:06:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] English Open Snooker
In-Reply-To: <C5983AEA-32AE-482B-BCCC-75392A374AEF@btinternet.com>
References: <6187fff8.1c69fb81.26f57.8b1c@mx.google.com>
	<C5983AEA-32AE-482B-BCCC-75392A374AEF@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <61884de0.1c69fb81.73ae7.912f@mx.google.com>

Hum still evident on HD Ch114.
And it does dip with audience applause.
Sadly, I agree that there is probably no SS who would pick up on that.
What the hell were we trained for?
Pat (but getting deafer).




Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Barry Bonner
Sent: 07 November 2021 21:19
To: patheigham
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] English Open Snooker

You mean you haven?t noticed that the audience applause dips one of the commentators?s mics?! ?Tut tut! Obviously automated throughout?can?t afford a sound supervisor.?

P.S. I?m watching live on channel Quest HD Channel114
Barry.


On 7 Nov 2021, at 16:34, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


Is anyone watching/listening to the coverage of the English Open Snooker on Quest+1 CH69?
There?s a constant background hum (venue air-con?)
which dips when the FX mics and commentators mics are brought up. Doesn?t anyone care enough to EQ it out?
Pat
?
?
Sent from?Mail?for Windows
?




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From mibridge at mac.com  Sun Nov  7 16:46:55 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2021 22:46:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] English Open Snooker
In-Reply-To: <61884de0.1c69fb81.73ae7.912f@mx.google.com>
References: <61884de0.1c69fb81.73ae7.912f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <6B005B58-CF2D-4C88-AA8D-272671038409@mac.com>

On this evening?s news which I am watching now, there have been several recorded reports and one reporter in the studio which have seemed reasonable quality to my ears, whereas the main presenter, Mishal Husain, is certainly ?warmer? to the point of being woolly  Even the sports reporter from Salford is not bad and I have come to the conclusion that whoever ought to be equalising things probably doesn?t know how to use an equaliser - doesn?t know which knobs decrease the bottom end, which the middle and which the top. They could do with the old Quad units that constituted the first equalisers I came across - they had a handy knob called ?presence?, and the Designs Department RSAs had much the same, with a choice of levels on a plastic Kellog key, which is exactly what?s needed here - not least for the female reporter in vision for the women?s football. 

Local news and weather were pretty poor tonight, too, particularly the weather. 

Meanwhile, I first watched Friday?s HIGNFY on my phone and wasn?t troubled, so after the comments I had a quick listen on the TV and I do agree that it was not as bright as it might have been, but I don?t think it?s the screens -  if they were significant there would surely be noticeable variations as the panellists moved around in their cubicles. Perhaps the phone explains it all - the current generation monitor their output on their phones!

The solution to all of this is so simple it defies the imagination as to why the problem existed in the first place, let alone why it?s being perpetuated in broadcast after broadcast. The top brass probably don?t have time to watch much TV in between their dinner engagements, so they are untroubled and consider the viewing public to be a load of whingers who are all a bit hard of hearing anyway. There is certainly something in that, because my wife has much more frequent difficulty with intelligibility than I do - and is always accusing me of mumbling. If you worked with me you may know that I had a reputation for ?getting through? on indifferent communications systems and was considered unsuitable for mic testing because I was too loud, at the same time being rejected as a subject for camera matching because my face was too soft! 

Mike G

> On 7 Nov 2021, at 22:07, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hum still evident on HD Ch114.
> And it does dip with audience applause.
> Sadly, I agree that there is probably no SS who would pick up on that.
> What the hell were we trained for?
> Pat (but getting deafer).
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> From: Barry Bonner
> Sent: 07 November 2021 21:19
> To: patheigham
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] English Open Snooker
>  
> You mean you haven?t noticed that the audience applause dips one of the commentators?s mics?!  Tut tut! Obviously automated throughout?can?t afford a sound supervisor. 
>  
> P.S. I?m watching live on channel Quest HD Channel114
> Barry.
>  
> 
>  
> On 7 Nov 2021, at 16:34, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> Is anyone watching/listening to the coverage of the English Open Snooker on Quest+1 CH69?
> There?s a constant background hum (venue air-con?)
> which dips when the FX mics and commentators mics are brought up. Doesn?t anyone care enough to EQ it out?
> Pat
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
>  
> 
>  
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Sun Nov  7 18:20:04 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 00:20:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] English Open Snooker
In-Reply-To: <6B005B58-CF2D-4C88-AA8D-272671038409@mac.com>
References: <61884de0.1c69fb81.73ae7.912f@mx.google.com>
	<6B005B58-CF2D-4C88-AA8D-272671038409@mac.com>
Message-ID: <0b8bab69-b33e-3f87-11c0-43270aac154b@btinternet.com>

I watched HIGNFY on i-player andRichard Avoade's mic was the worst 
offender - although the panellists not quite as bright as normal. I 
don't understand it. We all know what the human voice sounds like. It's 
not some rare musical instrument where there can be doubt if the 
microphone position is doing it justice. I also listen to a lot of R4. 
Can't remember ever thinking 'that needs some careful EQing' on any of 
their studio progs. I do also wonder just how clapped out some of these 
personal mics are - I know from experience that electrets don't last 
forever. Although modern ones may be better?

On 07/11/2021 22:46, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
> On this evening?s news which I am watching now, there have been 
> several recorded reports and one reporter in the studio which have 
> seemed reasonable quality to my ears, whereas the main presenter, 
> Mishal Husain, is certainly ?warmer? to the point of being woolly 
> ?Even the sports reporter from Salford is not bad and I have come to 
> the conclusion that whoever ought to be equalising things probably 
> doesn?t know how to use an equaliser - doesn?t know which knobs 
> decrease the bottom end, which the middle and which the top. They 
> could do with the old Quad units that constituted the first equalisers 
> I came across - they had a handy knob called ?presence?, and the 
> Designs Department RSAs had much the same, with a choice of levels on 
> a plastic Kellog key, which is exactly what?s needed here - not least 
> for the female reporter in vision for the women?s football.
>
> Local news and weather were pretty poor tonight, too, particularly the 
> weather.
>
> Meanwhile, I first watched Friday?s HIGNFY on my phone and wasn?t 
> troubled, so after the comments I had a quick listen on the TV and I 
> do agree that it was not as bright as it might have been, but I don?t 
> think it?s the screens - ?if they were significant there would surely 
> be noticeable variations as the panellists moved around in their 
> cubicles. Perhaps the phone explains it all - the current generation 
> monitor their output on their phones!
>
> The solution to all of this is so simple it defies the imagination as 
> to why the problem existed in the first place, let alone why it?s 
> being perpetuated in broadcast after broadcast. The top brass probably 
> don?t have time to watch much TV in between their dinner engagements, 
> so they are untroubled and consider the viewing public to be a load of 
> whingers who are all a bit hard of hearing anyway. There is certainly 
> something in that, because my wife has much more frequent difficulty 
> with intelligibility than I do - and is always accusing me of 
> mumbling. If you worked with me you may know that I had a reputation 
> for ?getting through? on indifferent communications systems and was 
> considered unsuitable for mic testing because I was too loud, at the 
> same time being rejected as a subject for camera matching because my 
> face was too soft!
>
> Mike G
>
>> On 7 Nov 2021, at 22:07, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Hum still evident on HD Ch114.
>>
>> And it does dip with audience applause.
>>
>> Sadly, I agree that there is probably no SS who would pick up on that.
>>
>> What the hell were we trained for?
>>
>> Pat (but getting deafer).
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
>> Windows
>>
>> *From: *Barry Bonner <mailto:barrybonner119 at btinternet.com>
>> *Sent: *07 November 2021 21:19
>> *To: *patheigham <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net>
>> *Cc: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] English Open Snooker
>>
>> You mean you haven?t noticed that the audience applause dips one of 
>> the commentators?s mics?! ?Tut tut! Obviously automated 
>> throughout?can?t afford a sound supervisor.
>>
>> P.S. I?m watching live on channel Quest HD Channel114
>>
>> /Barry./
>>
>> On 7 Nov 2021, at 16:34, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>     Is anyone watching/listening to the coverage of the English Open
>>     Snooker on Quest+1 CH69?
>>
>>     There?s a constant background hum (venue air-con?)
>>
>>     which dips when the FX mics and commentators mics are brought up.
>>     Doesn?t anyone care enough to EQ it out?
>>
>>     Pat
>>
>>     Sent fromMail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>for
>>     Windows
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com  Mon Nov  8 02:44:47 2021
From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 08:44:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] How to cover a Lit Fest 2021
Message-ID: <33108be7-2c7b-ae22-5967-aa68310c0598@googlemail.com>

I've been going to the Literary Festival in our local hall. As per 
usual, post-pandemic, it's being made available on-line as well. No OB 
van though these days, just 3 Lumix cameras on tripods, locked off, & 
fed via a laptop with a vision mixing box to Vimeo with the PA sound. 
The "producer/vision mixer" confessed he wasn't a camera operator. 
Occasionally he stood up & went & adjusted the cameras. When the view 
moved from 2 speakers in chairs to one speaker at the lectern, he would 
reframe the centre camera, but not till the person had actually moved. 
For the first couple of days, he didn't bother to include the projector 
screen in shot, so when that was relevant, the remote audience would be 
most confused. I was surprised it wasn't recorded on site, but just 
streamed to some remote bloke who checked it out then fed it on to Vimeo 
the next day. I must admit to being quite impressed by the "Scanner on a 
table-top".

Since you have to pay to watch the streamed version, I won't be seeing 
the result...

John Nottage
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From armoor.farm at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 03:52:20 2021
From: armoor.farm at gmail.com (Ian Norman)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 09:52:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] How to cover a Lit Fest 2021
In-Reply-To: <33108be7-2c7b-ae22-5967-aa68310c0598@googlemail.com>
References: <33108be7-2c7b-ae22-5967-aa68310c0598@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <edcfd0a1-0a3c-197f-0f1c-7977d40bb5a3@armoor.co.uk>

Dear John,

If you think that's impressive, you should see my little setup (see 
attached photo).

I started streaming church services, then on to wedding and funerals 
from various remote churches on the Quantock hills in Somerset.  None 
have internet and I have to use a 4G Wi-Fi router.

Four digital radio microphones, eight camera inputs and twenty stored 
captions.  I operate one camera, have up to six Go-Pros for static 
shots, mix the sound and vision.

I've had audiences in USA, South Africa, Australia, Germany, Sri Lanka 
live streamed to YouTube.  Apart from the 4G tariff, it's free and helps 
raise money for the church.

A couple of examples:-
https://youtu.be/FOF_hGQTz0Y
https://youtu.be/vYuFUQns8do


Stay safe

Ian Norman

Email: mailto:ian.norman at armoor.co.uk
Telephone: 01643 888181

On 08/11/2021 08:44, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
> I've been going to the Literary Festival in our local hall. As per 
> usual, post-pandemic, it's being made available on-line as well. No OB 
> van though these days, just 3 Lumix cameras on tripods, locked off, & 
> fed via a laptop with a vision mixing box to Vimeo with the PA sound. 
> The "producer/vision mixer" confessed he wasn't a camera operator. 
> Occasionally he stood up & went & adjusted the cameras. When the view 
> moved from 2 speakers in chairs to one speaker at the lectern, he would 
> reframe the centre camera, but not till the person had actually moved. 
> For the first couple of days, he didn't bother to include the projector 
> screen in shot, so when that was relevant, the remote audience would be 
> most confused. I was surprised it wasn't recorded on site, but just 
> streamed to some remote bloke who checked it out then fed it on to Vimeo 
> the next day. I must admit to being quite impressed by the "Scanner on a 
> table-top".
> 
> Since you have to pay to watch the streamed version, I won't be seeing 
> the result...
> 
> John Nottage
> 
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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Mon Nov  8 04:08:56 2021
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2021 10:08:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] How to cover a Lit Fest 2021
In-Reply-To: <edcfd0a1-0a3c-197f-0f1c-7977d40bb5a3@armoor.co.uk>
Message-ID: <hjf723lupcpt4u9uus8flbm6.1636366136956@pgtmedia.co.uk>

Gallery in a box is an excellent solution where it can not be covered in a cost effective way by normal means. It allows coverage of things that would not have any coverage any other way.  

It's when it's used as a cheaper alternative to the traditional way it's often an issue. It's not cheaper if is same results for less money not reduce results for less money as that's not comparing like with like. 



Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

07802 243979

Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk

Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin;?? http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/


? Original Message ?	
From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 8 November 2021 09:52
To: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Reply to: ian.norman at armoor.co.uk
Cc: armoor.farm at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Tech1] How to cover a Lit Fest 2021

Dear John,

If you think that's impressive, you should see my little setup (see 
attached photo).

I started streaming church services, then on to wedding and funerals 
from various remote churches on the Quantock hills in Somerset.? None 
have internet and I have to use a 4G Wi-Fi router.

Four digital radio microphones, eight camera inputs and twenty stored 
captions.? I operate one camera, have up to six Go-Pros for static 
shots, mix the sound and vision.

I've had audiences in USA, South Africa, Australia, Germany, Sri Lanka 
live streamed to YouTube.? Apart from the 4G tariff, it's free and helps 
raise money for the church.

A couple of examples:-
https://youtu.be/FOF_hGQTz0Y
https://youtu.be/vYuFUQns8do


Stay safe

Ian Norman

Email: mailto:ian.norman at armoor.co.uk
Telephone: 01643 888181

On 08/11/2021 08:44, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
> I've been going to the Literary Festival in our local hall. As per 
> usual, post-pandemic, it's being made available on-line as well. No OB 
> van though these days, just 3 Lumix cameras on tripods, locked off, & 
> fed via a laptop with a vision mixing box to Vimeo with the PA sound. 
> The "producer/vision mixer" confessed he wasn't a camera operator. 
> Occasionally he stood up & went & adjusted the cameras. When the view 
> moved from 2 speakers in chairs to one speaker at the lectern, he would 
> reframe the centre camera, but not till the person had actually moved. 
> For the first couple of days, he didn't bother to include the projector 
> screen in shot, so when that was relevant, the remote audience would be 
> most confused. I was surprised it wasn't recorded on site, but just 
> streamed to some remote bloke who checked it out then fed it on to Vimeo 
> the next day. I must admit to being quite impressed by the "Scanner on a 
> table-top".
> 
> Since you have to pay to watch the streamed version, I won't be seeing 
> the result...
> 
> John Nottage
> 

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From doug at puddifoot.me  Mon Nov  8 04:42:30 2021
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2021 10:42:30 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] English Open Snooker
Message-ID: <ugr809dilduflecc10edfbwk.1636367891515@email.android.com>

The air-con is so loud in the hall that Ronnie O'Sullivan walked out until they adjusted it because it was disturbing him.

Doug

On 7 November 2021, at 22:06, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

<!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face 	{font-family:Helvetica; 	panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face 	{font-family:"Cambria Math"; 	panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} @font-face 	{font-family:Calibri; 	panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face 	{font-family:"Lucida Handwriting"; 	panose-1:3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal 	{margin:0cm; 	font-size:11.0pt; 	font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink 	{mso-style-priority:99; 	color:blue; 	text-decoration:underline;} span.apple-converted-space 	{mso-style-name:apple-converted-space;} .MsoChpDefault 	{mso-style-type:export-only;} @page WordSection1 	{size:612.0pt 792.0pt; 	margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} div.WordSection1 	{page:WordSection1;} -->

Hum still evident on HD Ch114.

And it does dip with audience applause.

Sadly, I agree that there is probably no SS who would pick up on that.

What the hell were we trained for?

Pat (but getting deafer).

?

?

?

?

Sent from Mail for Windows

?

From: Barry Bonner
Sent: 07 November 2021 21:19
To: patheigham
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] English Open Snooker

?

You mean you haven?t noticed that the audience applause dips one of the commentators?s mics?! ?Tut tut! Obviously automated throughout?can?t afford a sound supervisor.?

?

P.S. I?m watching live on channel Quest HD Channel114

Barry.

?

?

On 7 Nov 2021, at 16:34, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:



Is anyone watching/listening to the coverage of the English Open Snooker on Quest+1 CH69?

There?s a constant background hum (venue air-con?)

which dips when the FX mics and commentators mics are brought up. Doesn?t anyone care enough to EQ it out?

Pat

?

?

Sent from?Mail?for Windows

?

?

?
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  8 05:11:17 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 11:11:17 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] How to cover a Lit Fest 2021
In-Reply-To: <33108be7-2c7b-ae22-5967-aa68310c0598@googlemail.com>
References: <33108be7-2c7b-ae22-5967-aa68310c0598@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <45aeec8f-e243-3d67-a43a-a3dd2bf9cadc@btinternet.com>

I've been wondering about this. Streaming? a small event you'd otherwise 
have to attend. Essential during lockdown, but wonder if many will get 
so used to it they will no longer make the effort to go to the live 
event, when they return to normal?

On 08/11/2021 08:44, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
> I've been going to the Literary Festival in our local hall. As per 
> usual, post-pandemic, it's being made available on-line as well. No OB 
> van though these days, just 3 Lumix cameras on tripods, locked off, & 
> fed via a laptop with a vision mixing box to Vimeo with the PA sound. 
> The "producer/vision mixer" confessed he wasn't a camera operator. 
> Occasionally he stood up & went & adjusted the cameras. When the view 
> moved from 2 speakers in chairs to one speaker at the lectern, he 
> would reframe the centre camera, but not till the person had actually 
> moved. For the first couple of days, he didn't bother to include the 
> projector screen in shot, so when that was relevant, the remote 
> audience would be most confused. I was surprised it wasn't recorded on 
> site, but just streamed to some remote bloke who checked it out then 
> fed it on to Vimeo the next day. I must admit to being quite impressed 
> by the "Scanner on a table-top".
>
> Since you have to pay to watch the streamed version, I won't be seeing 
> the result...
>
> John Nottage
>
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 07:16:15 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 13:16:15 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] How to cover a Lit Fest 2021
In-Reply-To: <45aeec8f-e243-3d67-a43a-a3dd2bf9cadc@btinternet.com>
References: <33108be7-2c7b-ae22-5967-aa68310c0598@googlemail.com>
	<45aeec8f-e243-3d67-a43a-a3dd2bf9cadc@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyGKv7vKhN7+oiFH=xjxqe4M82-4VWo=F_VP3VkQtusAmg@mail.gmail.com>

Depends on the person and the event. A big railway modelling friend has
asked me to join him on a trip to the Tolworth Model event on Sunday.
There isn't really a substitute.

B

On Mon, 8 Nov 2021, 11:11 Dave Plowman via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> I've been wondering about this. Streaming  a small event you'd otherwise
> have to attend. Essential during lockdown, but wonder if many will get so
> used to it they will no longer make the effort to go to the live event,
> when they return to normal?
> On 08/11/2021 08:44, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
>
> I've been going to the Literary Festival in our local hall. As per usual,
> post-pandemic, it's being made available on-line as well. No OB van though
> these days, just 3 Lumix cameras on tripods, locked off, & fed via a laptop
> with a vision mixing box to Vimeo with the PA sound. The "producer/vision
> mixer" confessed he wasn't a camera operator. Occasionally he stood up &
> went & adjusted the cameras. When the view moved from 2 speakers in chairs
> to one speaker at the lectern, he would reframe the centre camera, but not
> till the person had actually moved. For the first couple of days, he didn't
> bother to include the projector screen in shot, so when that was relevant,
> the remote audience would be most confused. I was surprised it wasn't
> recorded on site, but just streamed to some remote bloke who checked it out
> then fed it on to Vimeo the next day. I must admit to being quite impressed
> by the "Scanner on a table-top".
>
> Since you have to pay to watch the streamed version, I won't be seeing the
> result...
>
> John Nottage
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  8 08:16:16 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 14:16:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] How to cover a Lit Fest 2021
In-Reply-To: <CAA7MLyGKv7vKhN7+oiFH=xjxqe4M82-4VWo=F_VP3VkQtusAmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <33108be7-2c7b-ae22-5967-aa68310c0598@googlemail.com>
	<45aeec8f-e243-3d67-a43a-a3dd2bf9cadc@btinternet.com>
	<CAA7MLyGKv7vKhN7+oiFH=xjxqe4M82-4VWo=F_VP3VkQtusAmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f552075a-9264-9828-206d-2cc7c8a1028d@btinternet.com>

But did it run as a Zoom etc event during the lockdown?

On 08/11/2021 13:16, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
> Depends on the person and the event. A big railway modelling friend 
> has asked me to join him on a trip to the Tolworth Model event on 
> Sunday.? There isn't really a substitute.
>
> B
>
> On Mon, 8 Nov 2021, 11:11 Dave Plowman via Tech1, 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>     I've been wondering about this. Streaming? a small event you'd
>     otherwise have to attend. Essential during lockdown, but wonder if
>     many will get so used to it they will no longer make the effort to
>     go to the live event, when they return to normal?
>
>     On 08/11/2021 08:44, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
>>     I've been going to the Literary Festival in our local hall. As
>>     per usual, post-pandemic, it's being made available on-line as
>>     well. No OB van though these days, just 3 Lumix cameras on
>>     tripods, locked off, & fed via a laptop with a vision mixing box
>>     to Vimeo with the PA sound. The "producer/vision mixer" confessed
>>     he wasn't a camera operator. Occasionally he stood up & went &
>>     adjusted the cameras. When the view moved from 2 speakers in
>>     chairs to one speaker at the lectern, he would reframe the centre
>>     camera, but not till the person had actually moved. For the first
>>     couple of days, he didn't bother to include the projector screen
>>     in shot, so when that was relevant, the remote audience would be
>>     most confused. I was surprised it wasn't recorded on site, but
>>     just streamed to some remote bloke who checked it out then fed it
>>     on to Vimeo the next day. I must admit to being quite impressed
>>     by the "Scanner on a table-top".
>>
>>     Since you have to pay to watch the streamed version, I won't be
>>     seeing the result...
>>
>>     John Nottage
>>
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
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From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  8 11:08:18 2021
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 17:08:18 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New Mounts
Message-ID: <9A5FB1F9-A96B-4090-B565-CC9F8A74AE3D@btinternet.com>



A BTS scene from Warner Bros. Pictures? action epic ?TENET,? a Warner Bros. Pictures release. Copyright: ? 2020 Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Photo Credit: Melinda Sue Gordon


https://www.cinematography.world/twickenham-studios-receive-planning-approval-for-major-expansion-of-the-historic-campus/
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 11:22:45 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2021 17:22:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] How to cover a Lit Fest 2021
In-Reply-To: <f552075a-9264-9828-206d-2cc7c8a1028d@btinternet.com>
References: <33108be7-2c7b-ae22-5967-aa68310c0598@googlemail.com>
	<45aeec8f-e243-3d67-a43a-a3dd2bf9cadc@btinternet.com>
	<CAA7MLyGKv7vKhN7+oiFH=xjxqe4M82-4VWo=F_VP3VkQtusAmg@mail.gmail.com>
	<f552075a-9264-9828-206d-2cc7c8a1028d@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <16478744-2c64-55f8-2c13-aafd0989a08e@gmail.com>

That one didn't? - as far as I know -? but the big one, at the NEC, 
did.? If you like watching models railways go round, it was fine, but 
I've been twice, to buy and research parts or equipment, and that didn't 
work at all, at all.? If you need something, and you're not quite sure 
what it is, there's nothing to beat a place like Eileen's Emporium, 
stretched out for yards down the hall.

B



On 08/11/2021 14:16, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
>
> But did it run as a Zoom etc event during the lockdown?
>
> On 08/11/2021 13:16, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>> Depends on the person and the event. A big railway modelling friend 
>> has asked me to join him on a trip to the Tolworth Model event on 
>> Sunday.? There isn't really a substitute.
>>
>> B
>>
>> On Mon, 8 Nov 2021, 11:11 Dave Plowman via Tech1, 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>     I've been wondering about this. Streaming? a small event you'd
>>     otherwise have to attend. Essential during lockdown, but wonder
>>     if many will get so used to it they will no longer make the
>>     effort to go to the live event, when they return to normal?
>>
>>     On 08/11/2021 08:44, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
>>>     I've been going to the Literary Festival in our local hall. As
>>>     per usual, post-pandemic, it's being made available on-line as
>>>     well. No OB van though these days, just 3 Lumix cameras on
>>>     tripods, locked off, & fed via a laptop with a vision mixing box
>>>     to Vimeo with the PA sound. The "producer/vision mixer"
>>>     confessed he wasn't a camera operator. Occasionally he stood up
>>>     & went & adjusted the cameras. When the view moved from 2
>>>     speakers in chairs to one speaker at the lectern, he would
>>>     reframe the centre camera, but not till the person had actually
>>>     moved. For the first couple of days, he didn't bother to include
>>>     the projector screen in shot, so when that was relevant, the
>>>     remote audience would be most confused. I was surprised it
>>>     wasn't recorded on site, but just streamed to some remote bloke
>>>     who checked it out then fed it on to Vimeo the next day. I must
>>>     admit to being quite impressed by the "Scanner on a table-top".
>>>
>>>     Since you have to pay to watch the streamed version, I won't be
>>>     seeing the result...
>>>
>>>     John Nottage
>>>
>>     -- 
>>     Tech1 mailing list
>>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>>
>
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 10 09:35:59 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 15:35:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
Message-ID: <e9ae9152-0247-7b37-ebed-8c20c3ddeafd@gmail.com>

After ten thousand exhortations from Phillip Schofield I tried typing my 
registration number into the website.? It valued my 2011 Toyota Avensis 
auto estate at ?5800, rather more than Auto Trader. I don't want to sell 
the car - it's only done 51000 miles and they don't tend to make estates 
any more, even though they are extremely versatile. It was just curiosity.

More interestingly, after a couple of days, they emailed me to offer 
?6200, then a couple of days later ?6800.??? That's about half of what I 
paid nine years ago. Hmmm.? I wonder if when they value cars on site 
they suddenly discover they are worth a lot less.

B

PS someone really should tell Phil that he is wearing out his welcome on 
those ads. He certainly doesn't need the money.

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From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Nov 10 09:57:35 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 15:57:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
In-Reply-To: <e9ae9152-0247-7b37-ebed-8c20c3ddeafd@gmail.com>
References: <e9ae9152-0247-7b37-ebed-8c20c3ddeafd@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1E7C35F0-403E-4FB6-88E1-3D023E977303@me.com>

There have been a number of reports on the Banbury Facebook site about WBAC offering an attractive price but then when push comes to shove, they suddenly find any number of flaws with that particular car and can only offer a reduced price after all.

For anybody thinking of selling via them, just remember that the only price that matters is the one they actually end up paying. Some reported having received a good price, others felt ripped off. It?s also worth bearing in mind that for some sellers, a quick hassle-free sale might outweigh possibly getting a higher price elsewhere.

Alan Taylor





> On 10 Nov 2021, at 15:36, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? After ten thousand exhortations from Phillip Schofield I tried typing my registration number into the website.  It valued my 2011 Toyota Avensis auto estate at ?5800, rather more than Auto Trader. I don't want to sell the car - it's only done 51000 miles and they don't tend to make estates any more, even though they are extremely versatile. It was just curiosity.
> 
> More interestingly, after a couple of days, they emailed me to offer ?6200, then a couple of days later ?6800.    That's about half of what I paid nine years ago. Hmmm.  I wonder if when they value cars on site they suddenly discover they are worth a lot less.
> 
> B
> 
> PS someone really should tell Phil that he is wearing out his welcome on those ads. He certainly doesn't need the money. 
> 
>   
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 10 10:20:52 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 16:20:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
In-Reply-To: <1E7C35F0-403E-4FB6-88E1-3D023E977303@me.com>
References: <e9ae9152-0247-7b37-ebed-8c20c3ddeafd@gmail.com>
	<1E7C35F0-403E-4FB6-88E1-3D023E977303@me.com>
Message-ID: <0d596fb9-460e-4b09-c62d-f1af1c2cb3e4@btinternet.com>

They do seem to say on their site the price is based on the car being 
pretty well perfect. And most don't sell their car when it is. Unless a 
regular change for a new car. Which few of us lot have ever been able to 
afford.

On 10/11/2021 15:57, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> There have been a number of reports on the Banbury Facebook site about 
> WBAC offering an attractive price but then when push comes to shove, 
> they suddenly find any number of flaws with that particular car and 
> can only offer a reduced price after all.
>
> For anybody thinking of selling via them, just remember that the only 
> price that matters is the one they actually end up paying. Some 
> reported having received a good price, others felt ripped off. It?s 
> also worth bearing in mind that for some sellers, a quick hassle-free 
> sale might outweigh possibly getting a higher price elsewhere.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 10 Nov 2021, at 15:36, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ? After ten thousand exhortations from Phillip Schofield I tried 
>> typing my registration number into the website.? It valued my 2011 
>> Toyota Avensis auto estate at ?5800, rather more than Auto Trader. I 
>> don't want to sell the car - it's only done 51000 miles and they 
>> don't tend to make estates any more, even though they are extremely 
>> versatile. It was just curiosity.
>>
>> More interestingly, after a couple of days, they emailed me to offer 
>> ?6200, then a couple of days later ?6800.??? That's about half of 
>> what I paid nine years ago. Hmmm.? I wonder if when they value cars 
>> on site they suddenly discover they are worth a lot less.
>>
>> B
>>
>> PS someone really should tell Phil that he is wearing out his welcome 
>> on those ads. He certainly doesn't need the money.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 10 11:52:35 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 17:52:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
In-Reply-To: <1E7C35F0-403E-4FB6-88E1-3D023E977303@me.com>
References: <1E7C35F0-403E-4FB6-88E1-3D023E977303@me.com>
Message-ID: <71B19335-D817-47E4-951E-63D4585E389C@gmail.com>

My gripe with ?We buy any car? as Philip Schofield advertises gleefully on their commercials is simply that they don?t. We had a Golf Mk 2 to sell a couple of years ago but when I entered the registration their site it rejected it.
?Any car? either means what says or it doesn?t and they should qualify it in some way and not make false claims.
I think the Advertising Standards people should get onto that one,
Geoff Hawkes



Geoff
> On 10 Nov 2021, at 15:58, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> There have been a number of reports on the Banbury Facebook site about WBAC offering an attractive price but then when push comes to shove, they suddenly find any number of flaws with that particular car and can only offer a reduced price after all.
> 
> For anybody thinking of selling via them, just remember that the only price that matters is the one they actually end up paying. Some reported having received a good price, others felt ripped off. It?s also worth bearing in mind that for some sellers, a quick hassle-free sale might outweigh possibly getting a higher price elsewhere.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>> On 10 Nov 2021, at 15:36, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ? After ten thousand exhortations from Phillip Schofield I tried typing my registration number into the website.  It valued my 2011 Toyota Avensis auto estate at ?5800, rather more than Auto Trader. I don't want to sell the car - it's only done 51000 miles and they don't tend to make estates any more, even though they are extremely versatile. It was just curiosity.
>> 
>> More interestingly, after a couple of days, they emailed me to offer ?6200, then a couple of days later ?6800.    That's about half of what I paid nine years ago. Hmmm.  I wonder if when they value cars on site they suddenly discover they are worth a lot less.
>> 
>> B
>> 
>> PS someone really should tell Phil that he is wearing out his welcome on those ads. He certainly doesn't need the money. 
>> 
>>   
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From david.beer at talktalk.net  Wed Nov 10 12:38:27 2021
From: david.beer at talktalk.net (David Beer)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 18:38:27 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
In-Reply-To: <71B19335-D817-47E4-951E-63D4585E389C@gmail.com>
References: <1E7C35F0-403E-4FB6-88E1-3D023E977303@me.com>
	<71B19335-D817-47E4-951E-63D4585E389C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <deba3356-66b9-dd28-01f4-77f94a2dfb07@talktalk.net>

My wife sold her Astra some years ago using them. They went over the 
exterior with a fine tooth comb and knocked ?20 off the quote for every 
tiny scratch on the bodywork - didn't bother to check the interior or 
much of the engine. It was ok for a quick sale and money upfront.

Dave B

On 10/11/2021 17:52, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote:
> My gripe with ?We buy any car? as Philip Schofield advertises 
> gleefully on their commercials is simply that they don?t. We had a 
> Golf Mk 2 to sell a couple of years ago but when I entered the 
> registration their site it rejected it.
> ?Any car? either means what says or it doesn?t and they should qualify 
> it in some way and not make false claims.
> I think the Advertising Standards people should get onto that one,
> Geoff Hawkes
>
>
>
> Geoff
>> On 10 Nov 2021, at 15:58, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> There have been a number of reports on the Banbury Facebook site 
>> about WBAC offering an attractive price but then when push comes to 
>> shove, they suddenly find any number of flaws with that particular 
>> car and can only offer a reduced price after all.
>>
>> For anybody thinking of selling via them, just remember that the only 
>> price that matters is the one they actually end up paying. Some 
>> reported having received a good price, others felt ripped off. It?s 
>> also worth bearing in mind that for some sellers, a quick hassle-free 
>> sale might outweigh possibly getting a higher price elsewhere.
>>
>> Alan Taylor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 10 Nov 2021, at 15:36, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? After ten thousand exhortations from Phillip Schofield I tried 
>>> typing my registration number into the website.? It valued my 2011 
>>> Toyota Avensis auto estate at ?5800, rather more than Auto Trader. I 
>>> don't want to sell the car - it's only done 51000 miles and they 
>>> don't tend to make estates any more, even though they are extremely 
>>> versatile. It was just curiosity.
>>>
>>> More interestingly, after a couple of days, they emailed me to offer 
>>> ?6200, then a couple of days later ?6800.??? That's about half of 
>>> what I paid nine years ago. Hmmm.? I wonder if when they value cars 
>>> on site they suddenly discover they are worth a lot less.
>>>
>>> B
>>>
>>> PS someone really should tell Phil that he is wearing out his 
>>> welcome on those ads. He certainly doesn't need the money.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 10 13:16:18 2021
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 19:16:18 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
In-Reply-To: <deba3356-66b9-dd28-01f4-77f94a2dfb07@talktalk.net>
References: <deba3356-66b9-dd28-01f4-77f94a2dfb07@talktalk.net>
Message-ID: <AF70301C-4C00-4207-855D-CEA14256C496@btinternet.com>

Selling a car online is one thing but buying a second-hand car from the comfort of your armchair and having it delivered to your door without even seeing it ?

I suspect it?s not as ?Cinch? as they?d have us believe - would it be equally as easy to return and get your money back if it turns out to be a pig in a poke - especially after any cooling off period has expired?



Steve


> On 10 Nov 2021, at 18:39, David Beer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> My wife sold her Astra some years ago using them. They went over the exterior with a fine tooth comb and knocked ?20 off the quote for every tiny scratch on the bodywork - didn't bother to check the interior or much of the engine. It was ok for a quick sale and money upfront.
> 
> Dave B
> 
> On 10/11/2021 17:52, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote:
>> My gripe with ?We buy any car? as Philip Schofield advertises gleefully on their commercials is simply that they don?t. We had a Golf Mk 2 to sell a couple of years ago but when I entered the registration their site it rejected it.
>> ?Any car? either means what says or it doesn?t and they should qualify it in some way and not make false claims.
>> I think the Advertising Standards people should get onto that one,
>> Geoff Hawkes
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Geoff
>>> On 10 Nov 2021, at 15:58, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> There have been a number of reports on the Banbury Facebook site about WBAC offering an attractive price but then when push comes to shove, they suddenly find any number of flaws with that particular car and can only offer a reduced price after all.
>>> 
>>> For anybody thinking of selling via them, just remember that the only price that matters is the one they actually end up paying. Some reported having received a good price, others felt ripped off. It?s also worth bearing in mind that for some sellers, a quick hassle-free sale might outweigh possibly getting a higher price elsewhere.
>>> 
>>> Alan Taylor
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 10 Nov 2021, at 15:36, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ? After ten thousand exhortations from Phillip Schofield I tried typing my registration number into the website.  It valued my 2011 Toyota Avensis auto estate at ?5800, rather more than Auto Trader. I don't want to sell the car - it's only done 51000 miles and they don't tend to make estates any more, even though they are extremely versatile. It was just curiosity.
>>>> 
>>>> More interestingly, after a couple of days, they emailed me to offer ?6200, then a couple of days later ?6800.    That's about half of what I paid nine years ago. Hmmm.  I wonder if when they value cars on site they suddenly discover they are worth a lot less.
>>>> 
>>>> B
>>>> 
>>>> PS someone really should tell Phil that he is wearing out his welcome on those ads. He certainly doesn't need the money. 
>>>> 
>>>>   
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 11 03:15:53 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 09:15:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
In-Reply-To: <71B19335-D817-47E4-951E-63D4585E389C@gmail.com>
References: <1E7C35F0-403E-4FB6-88E1-3D023E977303@me.com>
	<71B19335-D817-47E4-951E-63D4585E389C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <618cdf48.1c69fb81.8f0d4.aaf9@mx.google.com>

Good luck with Advertising Standards!
I become increasingly annoyed at Lloyds Bank claiming in their commercials, that they are ?By Your Side?. As they have closed my local branch, and about to close a main branch in Dorking, at which my account is held, I cannot see how they can be ?by my side?. A moan to the Standards produced complete disinterest, with no action or slapped wrist against Lloyds.
Ads that blatantly lie, & are untrue should be taken off air.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1
Sent: 10 November 2021 17:52
To: Alan Taylor; Dave Plowman
Cc: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car

My gripe with ?We buy any car? as Philip Schofield advertises gleefully on their commercials is simply that they don?t. We had a Golf Mk 2 to sell a couple of years ago but when I entered the registration their site it rejected it.
?Any car? either means what says or it doesn?t and they should qualify it in some way and not make false claims.
I think the Advertising Standards people should get onto that one,
Geoff Hawkes


Geoff



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Nov 11 03:36:44 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 09:36:44 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
In-Reply-To: <618cdf48.1c69fb81.8f0d4.aaf9@mx.google.com>
References: <618cdf48.1c69fb81.8f0d4.aaf9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <DC6391E4-8CC4-423E-8118-8CC61B05CAD7@mac.com>

I contacted a company called We Buy Any Leisure Vehicle.com when we wanted to sell our caravan recently. They offered a good price on paper and the guy inspecting it had quite a long journey to meet us at 0900, so we thought they were quite serious, but he took absolutely ages looking over the van  before showing us the ?flaws? he had found. He then reported back to his boss who rang me with the tale of woe, talking the price down until I said that he was clearly not interested in buying it, at which point the conversation ended and his man went on his way with a shrug. I was surprised, to say the least, that the boss had given up at my first real interjection, but was pleased to see the back of them. Shortly afterwards, we asked a local dealer if they would be interested and they literally fell on our necks because they were so short of stock. We took the van to them and after a twenty minute shufty, resulting in absolutely no comments, the sales manager offered us ?250 more than he had quoted on the phone, only slightly short of what WBALV had quoted initially. I was surprised once again!

Mike G

> On 11 Nov 2021, at 09:16, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Good luck with Advertising Standards!
> I become increasingly annoyed at Lloyds Bank claiming in their commercials, that they are ?By Your Side?. As they have closed my local branch, and about to close a main branch in Dorking, at which my account is held, I cannot see how they can be ?by my side?. A moan to the Standards produced complete disinterest, with no action or slapped wrist against Lloyds.
> Ads that blatantly lie, & are untrue should be taken off air.
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> From: Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1
> Sent: 10 November 2021 17:52
> To: Alan Taylor; Dave Plowman
> Cc: tech1
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
>  
> My gripe with ?We buy any car? as Philip Schofield advertises gleefully on their commercials is simply that they don?t. We had a Golf Mk 2 to sell a couple of years ago but when I entered the registration their site it rejected it.
> ?Any car? either means what says or it doesn?t and they should qualify it in some way and not make false claims.
> I think the Advertising Standards people should get onto that one,
> Geoff Hawkes
> 
> 
> 
> Geoff
>  
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 11 03:53:32 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 09:53:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
In-Reply-To: <8528631A-5FB0-4745-A46F-600B5704AD48@btinternet.com>
References: <1E7C35F0-403E-4FB6-88E1-3D023E977303@me.com>
	<71B19335-D817-47E4-951E-63D4585E389C@gmail.com>
	<618cdf48.1c69fb81.8f0d4.aaf9@mx.google.com>
	<8528631A-5FB0-4745-A46F-600B5704AD48@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <618ce81c.1c69fb81.8d78e.d996@mx.google.com>

Years ago, companies advertising their products via TV commercials were wary of making claims that could not be substantiated. Remember Carlsberg having to say ?probably? the Best Lager....
I shot a Silvikrin shampoo ad, which had three different versions of dialogue, in case the Standards denied their favoured one!
This shoot was memorable for another reason ? there were seven guys from the agency/client, come for a day out jolly, but they each had to put an oar in. Thus there was a possibility of us having to shoot up to 21 different versions! The director got pissed off with them, and at lunchtime, asked the crew to reassemble ?At two o?clock ? ON THE DOT, please!? Knowing that the interfering team would be off for a boozy lunch, he locked the studio doors, put on the red light and shot for an hour and a half, before letting them back in! Not a further peep out of them!

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Albert Barber
Sent: 11 November 2021 09:28
To: patheigham
Cc: A Barber
Subject: Re: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car

I know what you mean Pat.
I wrote to Lloyds telling them I was unhappy that the slogan they had didn?t reflect the service that I had just had plus they had got my name completely wrong. They wrote back an arrogant letter perpetuating my misspelt name. I vowed never to use Lloyds again.

AB


On 11 Nov 2021, at 09:15, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

Good luck with Advertising Standards!
I become increasingly annoyed at Lloyds Bank claiming in their commercials, that they are ?By Your Side?. As they have closed my local branch, and about to close a main branch in Dorking, at which my account is held, I cannot see how they can be ?by my side?. A moan to the Standards produced complete disinterest, with no action or slapped wrist against Lloyds.
Ads that blatantly lie, & are untrue should be taken off air.
Pat
?



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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 11 04:06:36 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 10:06:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
In-Reply-To: <DC6391E4-8CC4-423E-8118-8CC61B05CAD7@mac.com>
References: <618cdf48.1c69fb81.8f0d4.aaf9@mx.google.com>
	<DC6391E4-8CC4-423E-8118-8CC61B05CAD7@mac.com>
Message-ID: <618ceb2b.1c69fb81.6d741.7782@mx.google.com>

Nice story, Mike, and a good outcome.
When changing my car, I?ve always gone to a main dealership, and put the old one in as part exchange. Less hassle and no comeback afterwards. Some 12 years ago, when I bought my current vehicle, I returned to the dealer from which I had purchased previously. The Government scrappage scheme allowed me ?2,000 on the old car, nearly double what it was worth at 18 years old, and the dealership gave a further discount of ?2,250, thus making what was an expensive new model, rather more affordable!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Mike Giles via Tech1
Sent: 11 November 2021 09:37
To: Tech Ops
Subject: Re: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car

I contacted a company called We Buy Any Leisure Vehicle.com when we wanted to sell our caravan recently. They offered a good price on paper and the guy inspecting it had quite a long journey to meet us at 0900, so we thought they were quite serious, but he took absolutely ages looking over the van ?before showing us the ?flaws? he had found. He then reported back to his boss who rang me with the tale of woe, talking the price down until I said that he was clearly not interested in buying it, at which point the conversation ended and his man went on his way with a shrug. I was surprised, to say the least, that the boss had given up at my first real interjection, but was pleased to see the back of them. Shortly afterwards, we asked a local dealer if they would be interested and they literally fell on our necks because they were so short of stock. We took the van to them and after a twenty minute shufty, resulting in absolutely no comments, the sales manager offered us ?250 more than he had quoted on the phone, only slightly short of what WBALV had quoted initially. I was surprised once again!

Mike G





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From david.jasma at sky.com  Thu Nov 11 04:18:08 2021
From: david.jasma at sky.com (Dave Buckley)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 10:18:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
In-Reply-To: <DC6391E4-8CC4-423E-8118-8CC61B05CAD7@mac.com>
References: <618cdf48.1c69fb81.8f0d4.aaf9@mx.google.com>
	<DC6391E4-8CC4-423E-8118-8CC61B05CAD7@mac.com>
Message-ID: <840fbfc3-4898-1ec1-b20f-fc084c76c9c9@sky.com>

In 2017 my wife bought a new Toyota Yaris. Having driven it for a while, 
I decided to get one as well, and went back to the same car dealers from 
where I bought a demo/exhibition 2016 Yaris with 2,700 miles on the clock.

With the Covid problem, the amount we were using two cars was very low 
so I suggested we downsized and I sold mine. I asked 'We Buy' how much I 
would get and got a value of around ?7,500. Then the dealership I had 
bought the car from did a Scotland wide email saying that they were 
interested in buying second-hand cars. As the local branch was just down 
the road, I drove down and after the obligatory inspection, was offered 
?8,400! The car had done 12,500 miles.

Now for an interesting insurance tip, which I certainly wasn't aware of 
when I phoned to cancel my insurance. Apparently, when you cancel 
insurance on a car, your no-claims bonus is held for two years, and it 
was pointed out that my wife and I could switch the insurance on the car 
every year. So next year, I will insure the car, and in 2023, we will 
switch back to my wife.

Dave Buckley





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From davesound at btinternet.com  Thu Nov 11 04:36:49 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 10:36:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
In-Reply-To: <618ceb2b.1c69fb81.6d741.7782@mx.google.com>
References: <618cdf48.1c69fb81.8f0d4.aaf9@mx.google.com>
	<DC6391E4-8CC4-423E-8118-8CC61B05CAD7@mac.com>
	<618ceb2b.1c69fb81.6d741.7782@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <970903d0-c756-deea-3076-a0f107aa709c@btinternet.com>

'We buy any car' don't. Their site doesn't even recognise a car exists 
over a certain age.

I do laugh at the Cinch advertising. 'Every car is fully reconditioned'




From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 11 05:08:20 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:08:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
Message-ID: <618cf9a3.1c69fb81.10d9c.c1ae@mx.google.com>

Years ago, companies advertising their products via TV commercials were wary of making claims that could not be substantiated. Remember Carlsberg having to say ?probably? the Best Lager....
I shot a Silvikrin shampoo ad, which had three different versions of dialogue, in case the Standards denied their favoured one!
This shoot was memorable for another reason ? there were seven guys from the agency/client, come for a day out jolly, but they each had to put an oar in. Thus there was a possibility of us having to shoot up to 21 different versions! The director got pissed off with them, and at lunchtime, asked the crew to reassemble ?At two o?clock ? ON THE DOT, please!? Knowing that the interfering team would be off for a boozy lunch, he locked the studio doors, put on the red light and shot for an hour and a half, before letting them back in! Not a further peep out of them!
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows



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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Thu Nov 11 05:21:06 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 11:21:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
In-Reply-To: <840fbfc3-4898-1ec1-b20f-fc084c76c9c9@sky.com>
References: <618cdf48.1c69fb81.8f0d4.aaf9@mx.google.com>
	<DC6391E4-8CC4-423E-8118-8CC61B05CAD7@mac.com>
	<840fbfc3-4898-1ec1-b20f-fc084c76c9c9@sky.com>
Message-ID: <7421f36a-c91f-354f-242d-0fc7844f23cd@chriswoolf.co.uk>

I have a Landrover Defender, tdi5 engine and nice low miles on the clock.

At the last MOT I had an "advisory" about the rear chassis member - par 
for the course after 16 years. Don't worry, says my garage guy. Next 
year I'll do you a galvanised chassis and bulkhead. Will cost you just a 
tad over 4k.... And that vehicle will still be worth nearly half as much 
again as you bought it off me new!

Chris Woolf


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From waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov 11 07:03:08 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 13:03:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
In-Reply-To: <618cdf48.1c69fb81.8f0d4.aaf9@mx.google.com>
References: <1E7C35F0-403E-4FB6-88E1-3D023E977303@me.com>
	<71B19335-D817-47E4-951E-63D4585E389C@gmail.com>
	<618cdf48.1c69fb81.8f0d4.aaf9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB19818F601C5B1E6540733D6CA7949@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Well clearly, they don?t mean literally by your side. I?m not with Lloyds, but I would read that as meaning ?looking after your interests? or ?always there when needed? or some such. A euphemism, not literal.
I can?t remember when I last went into a bank. It?s all online as far as I?m concerned, and with an iPad and/or phone with me all the time, my bank is always by my side, in pocket, etc. 24/7. Why do you even need a local branch? (other than maybe to get rid of small value coins, etc.). If you want cash, cash machines are everywhere. Oh, and if it?s about cheques, I haven?t received or written a cheque for years.
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 11 Nov 2021, at 09:16, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Good luck with Advertising Standards!
I become increasingly annoyed at Lloyds Bank claiming in their commercials, that they are ?By Your Side?. As they have closed my local branch, and about to close a main branch in Dorking, at which my account is held, I cannot see how they can be ?by my side?. A moan to the Standards produced complete disinterest, with no action or slapped wrist against Lloyds.
Ads that blatantly lie, & are untrue should be taken off air.
Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 10 November 2021 17:52
To: Alan Taylor<mailto:alanaudio at me.com>; Dave Plowman<mailto:davesound at btinternet.com>
Cc: tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car

My gripe with ?We buy any car? as Philip Schofield advertises gleefully on their commercials is simply that they don?t. We had a Golf Mk 2 to sell a couple of years ago but when I entered the registration their site it rejected it.
?Any car? either means what says or it doesn?t and they should qualify it in some way and not make false claims.
I think the Advertising Standards people should get onto that one,
Geoff Hawkes


Geoff



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From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com  Thu Nov 11 07:08:52 2021
From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 13:08:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB19818F601C5B1E6540733D6CA7949@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <1E7C35F0-403E-4FB6-88E1-3D023E977303@me.com>
	<71B19335-D817-47E4-951E-63D4585E389C@gmail.com>
	<618cdf48.1c69fb81.8f0d4.aaf9@mx.google.com>
	<PAXP191MB19818F601C5B1E6540733D6CA7949@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <41503D34-DD3A-4B93-A3C8-619860891146@icloud.com>

?and if you do receive a cheque you can now pay this in on-line by taking a photo of it!!

Graham Maunder

> On 11 Nov 2021, at 13:03, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Well clearly, they don?t mean literally by your side. I?m not with Lloyds, but I would read that as meaning ?looking after your interests? or ?always there when needed? or some such. A euphemism, not literal. 
> I can?t remember when I last went into a bank. It?s all online as far as I?m concerned, and with an iPad and/or phone with me all the time, my bank is always by my side, in pocket, etc. 24/7. Why do you even need a local branch? (other than maybe to get rid of small value coins, etc.). If you want cash, cash machines are everywhere. Oh, and if it?s about cheques, I haven?t received or written a cheque for years.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> 
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 11 Nov 2021, at 09:16, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> Good luck with Advertising Standards!
>> I become increasingly annoyed at Lloyds Bank claiming in their commercials, that they are ?By Your Side?. As they have closed my local branch, and about to close a main branch in Dorking, at which my account is held, I cannot see how they can be ?by my side?. A moan to the Standards produced complete disinterest, with no action or slapped wrist against Lloyds.
>> Ads that blatantly lie, & are untrue should be taken off air.
>> Pat
>>  
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
>>  
>> From: Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Sent: 10 November 2021 17:52
>> To: Alan Taylor <mailto:alanaudio at me.com>; Dave Plowman <mailto:davesound at btinternet.com>
>> Cc: tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
>>  
>> My gripe with ?We buy any car? as Philip Schofield advertises gleefully on their commercials is simply that they don?t. We had a Golf Mk 2 to sell a couple of years ago but when I entered the registration their site it rejected it.
>> ?Any car? either means what says or it doesn?t and they should qualify it in some way and not make false claims.
>> I think the Advertising Standards people should get onto that one,
>> Geoff Hawkes
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Geoff
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>	
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>  <x-msg://10/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>-- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
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From doug at puddifoot.me  Thu Nov 11 08:34:15 2021
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:34:15 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car
Message-ID: <ey1kprhwob866altco9k53bg.1636639287850@email.android.com>

Not with every bank. With Virgin Money you can only do it with their phone app, except my two year old phone is already too old to cope. Nearest branch is a sixty mile round trip. Only one cash machine left. That crashed last week for three days at the same time that the post office, which will provide cash, was closed because of staff shortages.

Doug

On 11 November 2021, at 13:08, Graham Maunder via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?and if you do receive a cheque you can now pay this in on-line by taking a photo of it!!


Graham Maunder


On 11 Nov 2021, at 13:03, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


Well clearly, they don?t mean literally by your side. I?m not with Lloyds, but I would read that as meaning ?looking after your interests? or ?always there when needed? or some such. A euphemism, not literal.?

I can?t remember when I last went into a bank. It?s all online as far as I?m concerned, and with an iPad and/or phone with me all the time, my bank is always by my side, in pocket, etc. 24/7. Why do you even need a local branch? (other than maybe to get rid of small value coins, etc.). If you want cash, cash machines are everywhere. Oh, and if it?s about cheques, I haven?t received or written a cheque for years.

Cheers,

Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5


On 11 Nov 2021, at 09:16, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

Good luck with Advertising Standards!

I become increasingly annoyed at Lloyds Bank claiming in their commercials, that they are ?By Your Side?. As they have closed my local branch, and about to close a main branch in Dorking, at which my account is held, I cannot see how they can be ?by my side?. A moan to the Standards produced complete disinterest, with no action or slapped wrist against Lloyds.

Ads that blatantly lie, & are untrue should be taken off air.

Pat

?

Sent from?Mail?for Windows

?

From:?Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1
Sent:?10 November 2021 17:52
To:?Alan Taylor;?Dave Plowman
Cc:?tech1
Subject:?Re: [Tech1] We Buy Any Car

?

My gripe with ?We buy any car? as Philip Schofield advertises gleefully on their commercials is simply that they don?t. We had a Golf Mk 2 to sell a couple of years ago but when I entered the registration their site it rejected it.

?Any car? either means what says or it doesn?t and they should qualify it in some way and not make false claims.

I think the Advertising Standards people should get onto that one,

Geoff Hawkes



Geoff

?



?

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 15:11:55 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 21:11:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fw: From Tim Healy
Message-ID: <2d0e4394-77a7-3c88-2f71-af55b2e345a4@gmail.com>

Subject:
internet stuff
From:
Tim Healy <healy38 at btinternet.com>
Date:
11/11/2021, 19:35

To:
"tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>


Hi all, All my internet protection stuff is coming up for renewal and I?m thinking of changing provider.
So anyone got ideas for something new?
I need protection for a Mac, an iPhone and a PC.
A cleaner for all and a VPN for Firestick.

All suggestion very gratefully received.
Tim
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 15:15:52 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 21:15:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fw: From Tim Healy
In-Reply-To: <2d0e4394-77a7-3c88-2f71-af55b2e345a4@gmail.com>
References: <2d0e4394-77a7-3c88-2f71-af55b2e345a4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2e6d809a-c495-96dc-2347-758e7ad710e8@gmail.com>

I have to admit that these days I rely on Windows Defender, built in to 
Windows 10.

As far as I can tell, threats these days mostly come from voluntarily 
clicking on some plausible email link. I haven't seen an actual virus 
for a long time.? Every so often I run Malwarebytes Antimalware, and 
also CCleaner, though that can be quite destructive if care isn't taken.

B







On 11/11/2021 21:11, Bernard Newnham wrote:
> Subject:
> internet stuff
> From:
> Tim Healy <healy38 at btinternet.com>
> Date:
> 11/11/2021, 19:35
>
> To:
> "tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>
>
> Hi all, All my internet protection stuff is coming up for renewal and I?m thinking of changing provider.
> So anyone got ideas for something new?
> I need protection for a Mac, an iPhone and a PC.
> A cleaner for all and a VPN for Firestick.
>
> All suggestion very gratefully received.
> Tim
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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Nov 11 16:53:51 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 22:53:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fw: From Tim Healy
In-Reply-To: <2d0e4394-77a7-3c88-2f71-af55b2e345a4@gmail.com>
References: <2d0e4394-77a7-3c88-2f71-af55b2e345a4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <418686B7-80DB-4661-AEFA-1D1EDD9B6A5F@me.com>

I use Macs, iPhones and iPads and have never used any antiviral software beyond what is built into the operating system.  That has been true since my first Mac in 1989 and my first iPhone and iPad whenever they came out. 

I?ve never had any virus or malware problems, but of course I try to use the internet sensibly and am cautious if I notice anything potentially dodgy. Occasionally these days I find dialogue boxes popping up via internet sites claiming that virii have been detected, but whenever I have encountered one, it was a hoax. I don?t click on anything, not even ?cancel? and immediately close down the web browser and restart it. 

When I used to do Mac support, I dealt with a few cases where the anti viral software itself had created problems, but in some cases the anti-viral software was so deeply embedded into the operating system that if the software package didn?t include an uninstall utility, the only way to remove it was to wipe the system, do a clean OS reinstall and then reinstall all the wanted apps and data. That was a task I avoided doing for clients because they rarely had the proper installation disks, passwords or authorisation codes for all the software they were using and would get annoyed if their pirated copy of something couldn?t be reinstalled.

I?m not sure what you mean by a cleaner, both OSX and IOS do a pretty good job of looking after themselves. A Mac automatically does occasional scheduled overnight maintenance tasks while you are sleeping. As for IOS devices, I generally try to remember to properly power them down once every couple of weeks, but I don?t know if it really does any good. 

My back-up system is to use Time Machine on four hard drives, which get swapped in rotation daily. Permanent archiving is done to a Synology NAS RAID, which also has apps to handle my mobile devices automatically via WiFi.  Many docs are also backed up and synced amongst devices via iCloud without any user intervention. 

I?ve never had a need for a VPN, so have no suggestions about what?s good or bad. Similarly I?ve never had a PC, so can?t  make suggestions regarding that either.

Alan Taylor

> On 11 Nov 2021, at 21:12, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Subject: internet stuff
> From: Tim Healy <healy38 at btinternet.com>
> Date: 11/11/2021, 19:35
> To: "tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> 
> Hi all, All my internet protection stuff is coming up for renewal and I?m thinking of changing provider.
> So anyone got ideas for something new?
> I need protection for a Mac, an iPhone and a PC.
> A cleaner for all and a VPN for Firestick.
> 
> All suggestion very gratefully received.
> Tim
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From mibridge at mac.com  Sat Nov 13 02:56:59 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 08:56:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] [Announce] Hugh Barker
In-Reply-To: <708b4f72-67bf-4058-b5ab-8a1d9c19661b@btinternet.com>
References: <708b4f72-67bf-4058-b5ab-8a1d9c19661b@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1F356B70-2FA4-4F82-83D2-FE08093DDE98@mac.com>

Those not on the IPS forum will not have seen the tributes to Hugh already forthcoming from sound colleagues. My own words were: ?Very sorry to have heard some time ago that Hugh was not well and, now that the end has come, I echo Keith May?s sentiments in that Hugh was more than willing to share his accumulated wisdom with me on the sound training course, even though I was a lad from the sticks.? 

Mike G



> On 12 Nov 2021, at 20:05, Malcolm Johnson via Announce <announce at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Dear Colleagues
> 
> It is with much sadness that I bring news of the passing of Hugh Barker who was an inspiration to all in the sound department at TVC for many decades and who set the standard for those who followed. He passed away peacefully in hospital on Monday with his wife Rita and one of their daughters by his side. A dear colleague and family friend.
> 
> There will be a small private family ceremony in due course.
> 
> Malcolm Johnson
> 
> 
> -- 
> Announce mailing list
> Announce at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce_tech-ops.co.uk


From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Sat Nov 13 04:23:46 2021
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 10:23:46 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] [Announce] Hugh Barker
In-Reply-To: <1F356B70-2FA4-4F82-83D2-FE08093DDE98@mac.com>
References: <708b4f72-67bf-4058-b5ab-8a1d9c19661b@btinternet.com>
	<1F356B70-2FA4-4F82-83D2-FE08093DDE98@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7457BA90-3C2C-4B13-8295-42409E2E114B@btinternet.com>

 Hi Mike,
	Yes, sad news indeed. 
He was one of the most inspirational and talented Sound Supervisor that I had the pleasure to work when I was a Gram Op. 
I learnt a lot from him about mixing and also, very importantly, how to engage with the production staff. 
Lots of fun & never a cross word or bad mood. 

	Barry.



On 13 Nov 2021, at 08:56, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Those not on the IPS forum will not have seen the tributes to Hugh already forthcoming from sound colleagues. My own words were: ?Very sorry to have heard some time ago that Hugh was not well and, now that the end has come, I echo Keith May?s sentiments in that Hugh was more than willing to share his accumulated wisdom with me on the sound training course, even though I was a lad from the sticks.? 
> 
> Mike G
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12 Nov 2021, at 20:05, Malcolm Johnson via Announce <announce at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Dear Colleagues
>> 
>> It is with much sadness that I bring news of the passing of Hugh Barker who was an inspiration to all in the sound department at TVC for many decades and who set the standard for those who followed. He passed away peacefully in hospital on Monday with his wife Rita and one of their daughters by his side. A dear colleague and family friend.
>> 
>> There will be a small private family ceremony in due course.
>> 
>> Malcolm Johnson
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Announce mailing list
>> Announce at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat Nov 13 11:08:21 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 17:08:21 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Hugh Barker
In-Reply-To: <618f8fe8.1c69fb81.7aaf.77b7@mx.google.com>
References: <708b4f72-67bf-4058-b5ab-8a1d9c19661b@btinternet.com>
	<618f8fe8.1c69fb81.7aaf.77b7@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <3eaf4120-f9b6-ea5d-9bc2-3a1d74cb5e77@btinternet.com>

I was very sad to read of the passing of Hugh Barker, possibly the last 
of the greats of TV sound broadcasting (except for Pat Heigham, of 
course) He was always great to work for and everyone gave their utmost 
for him on his shows. Regards, Dave

On 13/11/2021 10:14, patheigham via Announce wrote:
>
> Indeed, I was very saddened to hear of Hugh?s passing. I worked with 
> him many times in the 1960?s and learned a lot from him, particularly 
> when he handled the Duke Ellington Orchestra in 1964. A smashing audio 
> recording survives, from which I managed to make him a CD.
>
> I kept in touch via Rita, but she told me that Hugh doesn?t wish to 
> remember his old career ? pity, as he had a great deal to be proud of.
>
> RIP Hugh ? good friend and mentor.
>
> Pat Heigham
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows
>
> *From: *Malcolm Johnson via Announce <mailto:announce at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *12 November 2021 20:05
> *To: *announce at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject: *[Announce] Hugh Barker
>
> Dear Colleagues
>
> It is with much sadness that I bring news of the passing of Hugh Barker
>
> who was an inspiration to all in the sound department at TVC for many
>
> decades and who set the standard for those who followed. He passed away
>
> peacefully in hospital on Monday with his wife Rita and one of their
>
> daughters by his side. A dear colleague and family friend.
>
> There will be a small private family ceremony in due course.
>
> Malcolm Johnson
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Nov 13 12:10:57 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 18:10:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Hugh Barker
In-Reply-To: <3eaf4120-f9b6-ea5d-9bc2-3a1d74cb5e77@btinternet.com>
References: <708b4f72-67bf-4058-b5ab-8a1d9c19661b@btinternet.com>
	<618f8fe8.1c69fb81.7aaf.77b7@mx.google.com>
	<3eaf4120-f9b6-ea5d-9bc2-3a1d74cb5e77@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <618fffaf.1c69fb81.fd378.752d@mx.google.com>

Oh, Ha Ha! Dave.
To be serious - with Hugh?s passing, it started me reminiscing about the Sound Supervisors that are no longer with us, & with whom I enjoyed working and leaning from: Adrian ?Yogi? Stocks, Dickie Chamberlain, Chick Anthony, John Staples, Len Shorey, Gordon Mackie, and now Hugh Barker. There were others: Brian Hiles, DMT, Brian Forgham, all good people, then my memory fails.
Then of course there were the Producer/Directors of that day, who knew how to do it ? that seems sadly lacking in today?s programming. But those were the good times.

Pat (Raising a glass to Hugh).

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: dave.mdv via Tech1
Sent: 13 November 2021 17:08
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Hugh Barker

I was very sad to read of the passing of Hugh Barker, possibly the last of the greats of TV sound broadcasting (except for Pat Heigham, of course) He was always great to work for and everyone gave their utmost for him on his shows. Regards, Dave
On 13/11/2021 10:14, patheigham via Announce wrote:
Indeed, I was very saddened to hear of Hugh?s passing. I worked with him many times in the 1960?s and learned a lot from him, particularly when he handled the Duke Ellington Orchestra in 1964. A smashing audio recording survives, from which I managed to make him a CD.
I kept in touch via Rita, but she told me that Hugh doesn?t wish to remember his old career ? pity, as he had a great deal to be proud of.
RIP Hugh ? good friend and mentor.
?
Pat Heigham
?
?
Sent from Mail for Windows
?
From: Malcolm Johnson via Announce
Sent: 12 November 2021 20:05
To: announce at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Announce] Hugh Barker
?
Dear Colleagues
?
It is with much sadness that I bring news of the passing of Hugh Barker 
who was an inspiration to all in the sound department at TVC for many 
decades and who set the standard for those who followed. He passed away 
peacefully in hospital on Monday with his wife Rita and one of their 
daughters by his side. A dear colleague and family friend.
?
There will be a small private family ceremony in due course.
?
Malcolm Johnson
?
?
?



This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
www.avast.com 






-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Sun Nov 14 03:33:17 2021
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 09:33:17 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
Message-ID: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>

I rarely worked at the Greenwood but I'm curious to know where the sound desk came from, it looked distinctly secondhand!
When did we start at that venue?

Thanks for any info.
John H.


From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Sun Nov 14 04:07:57 2021
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 10:07:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4sofk3fh09itb93q21kfooq5.1636884477321@pgtmedia.co.uk>

Martin Kempton s website says it was kitted out in 1979 quickly, on a beg borrow and steal basis. 

Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

07802 243979

Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk

Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin;?? http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/


? Original Message ?	
From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 14 November 2021 09:33
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Reply to: j at howell61.f9.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk

I rarely worked at the Greenwood but I'm curious to know where the sound desk came from, it looked distinctly secondhand!
When did we start at that venue?

Thanks for any info.
John H.

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From waresound at msn.com  Sun Nov 14 04:09:11 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 10:09:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I never saw the Greenwood, but I once sold a rather 
tatty old Neve desk to Funky Junk. Could that have been it?? Junk it was, by modern standards, though probably a collector?s item now!
Cheers,
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 14 Nov 2021, at 09:33, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I rarely worked at the Greenwood but I'm curious to know where the sound desk came from, it looked distinctly secondhand!
> When did we start at that venue?
> 
> Thanks for any info.
> John H.
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From colin at colinhassell.com  Sun Nov 14 04:15:32 2021
From: colin at colinhassell.com (Colin Hassell)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 10:15:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <DDB6824E-6CE6-409A-8839-9B22C9E3E946@colinhassell.com>

I recall it was a Neve desk, of the same type put into the Type V Scanners.

Colin Hassell
colin at colinhassell.com
St Albans
Herts
UK


> On 14 Nov 2021, at 10:09, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I never saw the Greenwood, but I once sold a rather 
> tatty old Neve desk to Funky Junk. Could that have been it?? Junk it was, by modern standards, though probably a collector?s item now!
> Cheers,
> N.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 14 Nov 2021, at 09:33, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I rarely worked at the Greenwood but I'm curious to know where the sound desk came from, it looked distinctly secondhand!
>> When did we start at that venue?
>> 
>> Thanks for any info.
>> John H.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From nick at nickway.co.uk  Sun Nov 14 04:23:28 2021
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 10:23:28 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1277165482.599007.1636885408206@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Sun Nov 14 04:28:02 2021
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 10:28:02 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <842459705.599055.1636885682199@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 14 05:50:11 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 11:50:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7bd32a00-1959-7f79-185f-2c43fe3d368e@btinternet.com>

I seem to remember it was destined for the CMCCR and was 'borrowed' by 
studios! I worked there several times on various programs like 
'Parkinson'. How the Greenwood came into being is interesting if the 
story is true! A wealthy business man was treated and fixed by Guy's 
Hospital and said that he would donate enough to buy a new 'theatre' ie. 
an operating theatre! But the message got misunderstood and so the 
replacement TV theatre was born! Cheers, Dave

On 14/11/2021 09:33, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
> I rarely worked at the Greenwood but I'm curious to know where the sound desk came from, it looked distinctly secondhand!
> When did we start at that venue?
>
> Thanks for any info.
> John H.
>


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 14 05:53:10 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 11:53:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre
In-Reply-To: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <102e3a3b-03ae-2edc-ce67-d138874044b6@btinternet.com>

PS. the vision side was provided by an old LO4 scanner parked outside! 
Cheers, Dave

On 14/11/2021 09:33, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
> I rarely worked at the Greenwood but I'm curious to know where the sound desk came from, it looked distinctly secondhand!
> When did we start at that venue?
>
> Thanks for any info.
> John H.
>


From davesound at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 14 06:06:53 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 12:06:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <7bd32a00-1959-7f79-185f-2c43fe3d368e@btinternet.com>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<7bd32a00-1959-7f79-185f-2c43fe3d368e@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4b2971a7-d9a4-0419-b195-12593d740bfa@btinternet.com>

I've heard that one before, Dave, but never had it confirmed as being 
true.?

On 14/11/2021 11:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
> I seem to remember it was destined for the CMCCR and was 'borrowed' by 
> studios! I worked there several times on various programs like 
> 'Parkinson'. How the Greenwood came into being is interesting if the 
> story is true! A wealthy business man was treated and fixed by Guy's 
> Hospital and said that he would donate enough to buy a new 'theatre' 
> ie. an operating theatre! But the message got misunderstood and so the 
> replacement TV theatre was born! Cheers, Dave
>
> On 14/11/2021 09:33, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
>> I rarely worked at the Greenwood but I'm curious to know where the 
>> sound desk came from, it looked distinctly secondhand!
>> When did we start at that venue?
>>
>> Thanks for any info.
>> John H.
>>
>


From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 14 06:43:14 2021
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 12:43:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <933DC247-114A-4C76-91C0-4DFCE7BD4B93@btinternet.com>

 Yes the Greenwood was used in 1979. I remember it well as I was taken off the payroll by Bill Poole whilst at Greenwood although he got my name wrong!

The only picture I?ve found is this?..as you say it does look a bit tatty!
Barry.



On 14 Nov 2021, at 10:09, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I never saw the Greenwood, but I once sold a rather 
> tatty old Neve desk to Funky Junk. Could that have been it?? Junk it was, by modern standards, though probably a collector?s item now!
> Cheers,
> N.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 14 Nov 2021, at 09:33, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I rarely worked at the Greenwood but I'm curious to know where the sound desk came from, it looked distinctly secondhand!
>> When did we start at that venue?
>> 
>> Thanks for any info.
>> John H.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk  Sun Nov 14 06:52:35 2021
From: david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk (David Taylor)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 12:52:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <933DC247-114A-4C76-91C0-4DFCE7BD4B93@btinternet.com>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<933DC247-114A-4C76-91C0-4DFCE7BD4B93@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAKrdDqtirnQUi4RA32WGYP+ugLhYFMFsH5hE76VPE_JdSup7Nw@mail.gmail.com>

Well done John and Barry,
I'm in the middle of doing a history of 'early Neve's and have been getting
a bit stuck with the BBC desks.
That Greenwood one though has surely come from a Type 4 scanner, here's a
pic of one:
[image: BBC Type 4 OBUnit Neve desk.jpg]

Dave T
postfade.co.uk
*"About the history of broadcast and recorded sound"*

On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 at 12:43, Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

>  Yes the Greenwood was used in 1979. I remember it well as I was taken off
> the payroll by Bill Poole whilst at Greenwood although he got my name wrong!
>
> The only picture I?ve found is this?..as you say it does look a bit tatty!
> Barry.
>
>
>
> On 14 Nov 2021, at 10:09, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> I never saw the Greenwood, but I once sold a rather
> tatty old Neve desk to Funky Junk. Could that have been it?? Junk it was,
> by modern standards, though probably a collector?s item now!
> Cheers,
> N.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
> On 14 Nov 2021, at 09:33, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?I rarely worked at the Greenwood but I'm curious to know where the sound
> desk came from, it looked distinctly secondhand!
> When did we start at that venue?
>
> Thanks for any info.
> John H.
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Nov 14 07:08:09 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 13:08:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <933DC247-114A-4C76-91C0-4DFCE7BD4B93@btinternet.com>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<933DC247-114A-4C76-91C0-4DFCE7BD4B93@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <61910a39.1c69fb81.9d2eb.583b@mx.google.com>

Interesting photo, Barry ? what were the tape decks? Studer?
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Barry Bonner via Tech1
Sent: 14 November 2021 12:43
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk

?Yes the Greenwood was used in 1979. I remember it well as I was taken off the payroll by Bill Poole whilst at Greenwood although he got my name wrong!

The only picture I?ve found is this?..as you say it does look a bit tatty!
Barry.


On 14 Nov 2021, at 10:09, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


I never saw the Greenwood, but I once sold a rather 
tatty old Neve desk to Funky Junk. Could that have been it?? Junk it was, by modern standards, though probably a collector?s item now!
Cheers,
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5


On 14 Nov 2021, at 09:33, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?I rarely worked at the Greenwood but I'm curious to know where the sound desk came from, it looked distinctly secondhand!
When did we start at that venue?

Thanks for any info.
John H.

-- 
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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 14 09:27:01 2021
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 15:27:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <61910a39.1c69fb81.9d2eb.583b@mx.google.com>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<933DC247-114A-4C76-91C0-4DFCE7BD4B93@btinternet.com>
	<61910a39.1c69fb81.9d2eb.583b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <9B6AA55F-D1FB-4086-8076-6871F04D26FF@btinternet.com>

Hi Pat,
	Yes, Studer B62?s, height of trolley designated by me at 33.3 inches!
Barry.



On 14 Nov 2021, at 13:08, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:

> Interesting photo, Barry ? what were the tape decks? Studer?
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows

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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Sun Nov 14 11:45:42 2021
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 17:45:42 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <933DC247-114A-4C76-91C0-4DFCE7BD4B93@btinternet.com>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<933DC247-114A-4C76-91C0-4DFCE7BD4B93@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <247991388.583945.1636911942873@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Nov 15 04:27:27 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 10:27:27 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <9B6AA55F-D1FB-4086-8076-6871F04D26FF@btinternet.com>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<933DC247-114A-4C76-91C0-4DFCE7BD4B93@btinternet.com>
	<61910a39.1c69fb81.9d2eb.583b@mx.google.com>
	<9B6AA55F-D1FB-4086-8076-6871F04D26FF@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <6192360f.1c69fb81.d4414.4b2e@mx.google.com>


?Thirty three and a third?!
I never played with the trolley Studers ? after my time! I do remember that Riverside Music Studio had Studers to replace the BTR2?s. They had the cute scissors that emerged from the deck ? but people would come in & fiddle, pressing the button, which was highly irritating! Trouble was that it cut the tape at 60 degrees, which didn?t match the Emiblock?s 45 degree that us gram ops always carried.
I hated the Leevers-Rich machines and always managed to get 3 TR90?s for Dr. Who. See pic ? Bish was hogging the limelight, although I was the gram op!
Best regards
Pat



Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Barry Bonner
Sent: 14 November 2021 15:27
To: patheigham
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk

Hi Pat,
	Yes,?Studer B62?s, height of trolley designated by me at 33.3 inches!
Barry.


On 14 Nov 2021, at 13:08, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:


Interesting photo, Barry ? what were the tape decks? Studer?
Pat
?
Sent from?Mail?for Windows




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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Mon Nov 15 05:15:22 2021
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 11:15:22 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <6192360f.1c69fb81.d4414.4b2e@mx.google.com>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<933DC247-114A-4C76-91C0-4DFCE7BD4B93@btinternet.com>
	<61910a39.1c69fb81.9d2eb.583b@mx.google.com>
	<9B6AA55F-D1FB-4086-8076-6871F04D26FF@btinternet.com>
	<6192360f.1c69fb81.d4414.4b2e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <9BF8322C-FFB7-430D-BA4F-359E0EE0332C@howell61.f9.co.uk>

To add to the list the Riverside Recording Studio (RRS) had a Philips PRO20 (or was it PRO40?) tape machine for reverb pre delay, a rather nice machine I thought.
When the latest generation of Leevers Rich machines arrived (with the black instead of alloy head block) they seem to have solved the quick start.problems that plagued the earlier models. Not so they soon developed similar traits that were tolerated until the arrival ofthe Studers.

Hibou.

> On 15 Nov 2021, at 10:27, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>  
> ?Thirty three and a third?!
> I never played with the trolley Studers ? after my time! I do remember that Riverside Music Studio had Studers to replace the BTR2?s. They had the cute scissors that emerged from the deck ? but people would come in & fiddle, pressing the button, which was highly irritating! Trouble was that it cut the tape at 60 degrees, which didn?t match the Emiblock?s 45 degree that us gram ops always carried.
> I hated the Leevers-Rich machines and always managed to get 3 TR90?s for Dr. Who. See pic ? Bish was hogging the limelight, although I was the gram op!
> Best regards
> Pat
>  
> <062A7860A63640C497820383E77B0A6A.jpg>
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> From: Barry Bonner
> Sent: 14 November 2021 15:27
> To: patheigham
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
>  
> Hi Pat,
>                Yes, Studer B62?s, height of trolley designated by me at 33.3 inches!
> Barry.
>  
> 
>  
> On 14 Nov 2021, at 13:08, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> Interesting photo, Barry ? what were the tape decks? Studer?
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
>  
> 
> 
>   			 			
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> <062A7860A63640C497820383E77B0A6A.jpg>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From waresound at msn.com  Mon Nov 15 10:31:54 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 16:31:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <9BF8322C-FFB7-430D-BA4F-359E0EE0332C@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<933DC247-114A-4C76-91C0-4DFCE7BD4B93@btinternet.com>
	<61910a39.1c69fb81.9d2eb.583b@mx.google.com>
	<9B6AA55F-D1FB-4086-8076-6871F04D26FF@btinternet.com>
	<6192360f.1c69fb81.d4414.4b2e@mx.google.com>
	<9BF8322C-FFB7-430D-BA4F-359E0EE0332C@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981453AFE667AE4E3711BF7A7989@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

It was a Pro20. Here?s a pic of mine being used on a recording session at Guildford Cathedral circa 1970. One of the choir altos was a sales rep for Philips, and got me that superb ex-demo machine for next to nothing. I had to make the wood case for the valve amp modules, as also the phantom power unit and mixer. Painton Quadrant faders, no less. Revox A77 for backup.
One of the best features of the Pro20 was its mechanical pressure sensitive fast forward and rewind, and stop buttons. No need for hands on spools to control braking and spillage, etc.!
Who recognises the pensive chap at the faders?
Cheers,
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
[cid:F8448AB6-AA5B-4F2C-8A8B-F6EF4DEF064B]
On 15 Nov 2021, at 11:16, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
To add to the list the Riverside Recording Studio (RRS) had a Philips PRO20 (or was it PRO40?) tape machine for reverb pre delay, a rather nice machine I thought.
When the latest generation of Leevers Rich machines arrived (with the black instead of alloy head block) they seem to have solved the quick start.problems that plagued the earlier models. Not so they soon developed similar traits that were tolerated until the arrival ofthe Studers.

Hibou.
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From colin at colinhassell.com  Mon Nov 15 11:01:03 2021
From: colin at colinhassell.com (Colin Hassell)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 17:01:03 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981453AFE667AE4E3711BF7A7989@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAXP191MB1981453AFE667AE4E3711BF7A7989@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <1F762FD9-5079-47F9-AC1D-50E4991AD03B@colinhassell.com>

Is that a young Brian Roberts on the faders?


Colin Hassell
colin at colinhassell.com
St Albans
Herts
UK


> On 15 Nov 2021, at 16:32, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? It was a Pro20. Here?s a pic of mine being used on a recording session at Guildford Cathedral circa 1970. One of the choir altos was a sales rep for Philips, and got me that superb ex-demo machine for next to nothing. I had to make the wood case for the valve amp modules, as also the phantom power unit and mixer. Painton Quadrant faders, no less. Revox A77 for backup. 
> One of the best features of the Pro20 was its mechanical pressure sensitive fast forward and rewind, and stop buttons. No need for hands on spools to control braking and spillage, etc.!
> Who recognises the pensive chap at the faders?
> Cheers,
> N.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> <image0.jpeg>
> 
>>> On 15 Nov 2021, at 11:16, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> To add to the list the Riverside Recording Studio (RRS) had a Philips PRO20 (or was it PRO40?) tape machine for reverb pre delay, a rather nice machine I thought.
>> When the latest generation of Leevers Rich machines arrived (with the black instead of alloy head block) they seem to have solved the quick start.problems that plagued the earlier models. Not so they soon developed similar traits that were tolerated until the arrival ofthe Studers.
>> 
>> Hibou.
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 15 11:04:23 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 17:04:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <6192360f.1c69fb81.d4414.4b2e@mx.google.com>
References: <6192360f.1c69fb81.d4414.4b2e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BADA2EA0-E44A-42EE-8688-0364008E0847@gmail.com>

Nice picture and who was the young lady in foreground as she?s the one who in my opinion steals the scene. She has a sort of familiar face and I assume she was a production person as don?t recall any sound operators who looked like her,

Geoff

> On 15 Nov 2021, at 10:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
>  
> ?Thirty three and a third?!
> I never played with the trolley Studers ? after my time! I do remember that Riverside Music Studio had Studers to replace the BTR2?s. They had the cute scissors that emerged from the deck ? but people would come in & fiddle, pressing the button, which was highly irritating! Trouble was that it cut the tape at 60 degrees, which didn?t match the Emiblock?s 45 degree that us gram ops always carried.
> I hated the Leevers-Rich machines and always managed to get 3 TR90?s for Dr. Who. See pic ? Bish was hogging the limelight, although I was the gram op!
> Best regards
> Pat
>  
> <062A7860A63640C497820383E77B0A6A.jpg>
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> From: Barry Bonner
> Sent: 14 November 2021 15:27
> To: patheigham
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
>  
> Hi Pat,
>                Yes, Studer B62?s, height of trolley designated by me at 33.3 inches!
> Barry.
>  
> 
>  
> On 14 Nov 2021, at 13:08, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> Interesting photo, Barry ? what were the tape decks? Studer?
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
>  
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> <062A7860A63640C497820383E77B0A6A.jpg>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Nov 15 13:20:04 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:20:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981453AFE667AE4E3711BF7A7989@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <C8C6B373-F2AC-4114-9EBD-62CA810150C5@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<PAXP191MB198129B3A3A281DB81B4B0E2A7979@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<933DC247-114A-4C76-91C0-4DFCE7BD4B93@btinternet.com>
	<61910a39.1c69fb81.9d2eb.583b@mx.google.com>
	<9B6AA55F-D1FB-4086-8076-6871F04D26FF@btinternet.com>
	<6192360f.1c69fb81.d4414.4b2e@mx.google.com>
	<9BF8322C-FFB7-430D-BA4F-359E0EE0332C@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<PAXP191MB1981453AFE667AE4E3711BF7A7989@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <6192b2e6.1c69fb81.92b39.d954@mx.google.com>

Definitely Mr. Roberts B, or ?mollusc? as christened by Tony Bastable (Clue: Magic Roundabout).
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: 15 November 2021 16:32
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk

It was a Pro20. Here?s a pic of mine being used on a recording session at Guildford Cathedral circa 1970. One of the choir altos was a sales rep for Philips, and got me that superb ex-demo machine for next to nothing. I had to make the wood case for the valve amp modules, as also the phantom power unit and mixer. Painton Quadrant faders, no less. Revox A77 for backup.? 
One of the best features of the Pro20 was its mechanical pressure sensitive fast forward and rewind, and stop buttons. No need for hands on spools to control braking and spillage, etc.!
Who recognises the pensive chap at the faders?
Cheers,
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5


On 15 Nov 2021, at 11:16, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
? 
To add to the list the Riverside Recording Studio (RRS) had a Philips PRO20 (or was it PRO40?) tape machine for reverb pre delay, a rather nice machine I thought.
When the latest generation of Leevers Rich machines arrived (with the black instead of alloy head block) they seem to have solved the quick start.problems that plagued the earlier models. Not so they soon developed similar traits that were tolerated until the arrival ofthe Studers.

Hibou.



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Nov 15 13:26:06 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 19:26:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
In-Reply-To: <BADA2EA0-E44A-42EE-8688-0364008E0847@gmail.com>
References: <6192360f.1c69fb81.d4414.4b2e@mx.google.com>
	<BADA2EA0-E44A-42EE-8688-0364008E0847@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6192b44e.1c69fb81.44581.10a9@mx.google.com>

This was a formal publicity pic, the foreground lady was Verity Lambert ? the producer of the early Dr. Who?s. She went on to form her own company ? Cinema Verite (clever pun) and I worked for her later on several times as a freelance.
Think it dates from 1963 or so.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Geoffrey Hawkes
Sent: 15 November 2021 17:04
To: patheigham
Cc: Barry Bonner; Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk

Nice picture and who was the young lady in foreground as she?s the one who in my opinion steals the scene. She has a sort of familiar face and I assume she was a production person as don?t recall any sound operators who looked like her,

Geoff


On 15 Nov 2021, at 10:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
?
?
?Thirty three and a third?!
I never played with the trolley Studers ? after my time! I do remember that Riverside Music Studio had Studers to replace the BTR2?s. They had the cute scissors that emerged from the deck ? but people would come in & fiddle, pressing the button, which was highly irritating! Trouble was that it cut the tape at 60 degrees, which didn?t match the Emiblock?s 45 degree that us gram ops always carried.
I hated the Leevers-Rich machines and always managed to get 3 TR90?s for Dr. Who. See pic ? Bish was hogging the limelight, although I was the gram op!
Best regards
Pat
?
<062A7860A63640C497820383E77B0A6A.jpg>
?



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From waresound at msn.com  Mon Nov 15 16:04:49 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2021 22:04:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981C0ACF413B404CEEB5E76A7989@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

?FWIW, her company was actually called Cinema Verity, and so did I.
In R1 I used to arrange the tape machines in a tight arc to keep her out - she could be quite naughty. I think she must have mistaken me for you, Pat!
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 15 Nov 2021, at 19:26, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
This was a formal publicity pic, the foreground lady was Verity Lambert ? the producer of the early Dr. Who?s. She went on to form her own company ? Cinema Verite (clever pun) and I worked for her later on several times as a freelance.
Think it dates from 1963 or so.
Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: Geoffrey Hawkes<mailto:geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com>
Sent: 15 November 2021 17:04
To: patheigham<mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net>
Cc: Barry Bonner<mailto:barrybonner119 at btinternet.com>; Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Greenwood Theatre Sound Desk

Nice picture and who was the young lady in foreground as she?s the one who in my opinion steals the scene. She has a sort of familiar face and I assume she was a production person as don?t recall any sound operators who looked like her,

Geoff


On 15 Nov 2021, at 10:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
?

?Thirty three and a third?!
I never played with the trolley Studers ? after my time! I do remember that Riverside Music Studio had Studers to replace the BTR2?s. They had the cute scissors that emerged from the deck ? but people would come in & fiddle, pressing the button, which was highly irritating! Trouble was that it cut the tape at 60 degrees, which didn?t match the Emiblock?s 45 degree that us gram ops always carried.
I hated the Leevers-Rich machines and always managed to get 3 TR90?s for Dr. Who. See pic ? Bish was hogging the limelight, although I was the gram op!
Best regards
Pat

<062A7860A63640C497820383E77B0A6A.jpg>




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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 16 18:48:14 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 00:48:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Verity Lambert
Message-ID: <6eccbc67-8d9f-dc79-6646-80605494cc4e@btinternet.com>

Are you confusing her with Biddy Baxter (Blue Peter) who was notorious 
for leading with her crutch! Cheers, Dave (who never had the attention!)



From waresound at msn.com  Wed Nov 17 02:40:48 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 08:40:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Verity Lambert
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB19724340CA500C32BBC9E200A79A9@AM9P191MB1972.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>


?No, Dave, I?m not, and I did wonder whether someone might ask that. Probably best not to pursue this topic. I only mentioned it because I wondered if it might explain Pat?s vacant (or is it long suffering?) look.
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 17 Nov 2021, at 00:48, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?Are you confusing her with Biddy Baxter (Blue Peter) who was notorious for leading with her crutch! Cheers, Dave (who never had the attention!)
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 04:34:54 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 10:34:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Verity Lambert
In-Reply-To: <6eccbc67-8d9f-dc79-6646-80605494cc4e@btinternet.com>
References: <6eccbc67-8d9f-dc79-6646-80605494cc4e@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <f2a436a8-55dd-169a-8e91-a2ae876e703d@ntlworld.com>

Is that libel?

B



On 17/11/2021 00:48, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
> Are you confusing her with Biddy Baxter (Blue Peter) who was notorious 
> for leading with her crutch! Cheers, Dave (who never had the attention!)
>
>
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From waresound at msn.com  Wed Nov 17 08:29:16 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 14:29:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Verity Lambert
In-Reply-To: <f2a436a8-55dd-169a-8e91-a2ae876e703d@ntlworld.com>
References: <6eccbc67-8d9f-dc79-6646-80605494cc4e@btinternet.com>
	<f2a436a8-55dd-169a-8e91-a2ae876e703d@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <AM9P191MB19724E83D45724ACD051B573A79A9@AM9P191MB1972.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I?m sure Dave meant crutch, as in:
?a long stick with a crosspiece at the top, used as a support??etc.? or metaphorically, ?something people rely on when they shouldn?t need to? referring to the firm support she gave in the making of the programme she led.
Spelt with an ?o? might mean something different.
Isn?t that right, Dave?
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 17 Nov 2021, at 10:35, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? Is that libel?

B



On 17/11/2021 00:48, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
Are you confusing her with Biddy Baxter (Blue Peter) who was notorious for leading with her crutch! Cheers, Dave (who never had the attention!)



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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 17 08:48:54 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 14:48:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Verity Lambert
In-Reply-To: <AM9P191MB19724E83D45724ACD051B573A79A9@AM9P191MB1972.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <6eccbc67-8d9f-dc79-6646-80605494cc4e@btinternet.com>
	<f2a436a8-55dd-169a-8e91-a2ae876e703d@ntlworld.com>
	<AM9P191MB19724E83D45724ACD051B573A79A9@AM9P191MB1972.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <e5f11a13-82a0-6d7f-620d-52a6de9dc813@btinternet.com>

Absolutely, Nick! I'm very grateful you pointed that out! Cheers, Dave

On 17/11/2021 14:29, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> I?m sure Dave meant crutch, as in:
> ?a long stick with a crosspiece at the top, used as a support??etc.? 
> or metaphorically, ?something people rely on when they shouldn?t need 
> to? referring to the firm support she gave in the making of the 
> programme she led.
> Spelt with an ?o? might mean something different.
> Isn?t that right, Dave?
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>> On 17 Nov 2021, at 10:35, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ? Is that libel?
>>
>> B
>>
>>
>>
>> On 17/11/2021 00:48, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Are you confusing her with Biddy Baxter (Blue Peter) who was 
>>> notorious for leading with her crutch! Cheers, Dave (who never had 
>>> the attention!)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Nov 17 11:49:11 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 17:49:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Verity Lambert
In-Reply-To: <e5f11a13-82a0-6d7f-620d-52a6de9dc813@btinternet.com>
References: <6eccbc67-8d9f-dc79-6646-80605494cc4e@btinternet.com>
	<f2a436a8-55dd-169a-8e91-a2ae876e703d@ntlworld.com>
	<AM9P191MB19724E83D45724ACD051B573A79A9@AM9P191MB1972.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<e5f11a13-82a0-6d7f-620d-52a6de9dc813@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <61954097.1c69fb81.d15bb.411a@mx.google.com>

I always thought that ?crotch? was American spelling ? maybe I?m wrong as it seems to refer to the junction of the legs to the torso.
?Crutch? is surely what Long John Silver used to keep mobile?
I never saw Biddy hobbling around the studio! (no parrot!).
Think she totally ignored the soft-soled shoe rule, and kept her high heels on, regardless.

Pat
Sent from Mail for Windows

From: dave.mdv via Tech1
Sent: 17 November 2021 14:49
To: Nick Ware; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Verity Lambert

Absolutely, Nick! I'm very grateful you pointed that out! Cheers, Dave
On 17/11/2021 14:29, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
I?m sure Dave meant crutch, as in: 
?a long stick with a crosspiece at the top, used as a support??etc.? or metaphorically, ?something people rely on when they shouldn?t need to? referring to the firm support she gave in the making of the programme she led.
Spelt with an ?o? might mean something different.
Isn?t that right, Dave?
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5




On 17/11/2021 00:48, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
Are you confusing her with Biddy Baxter (Blue Peter) who was notorious for leading with her crutch! Cheers, Dave (who never had the attention!) 


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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Wed Nov 17 12:49:58 2021
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 18:49:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] EQ AGAIN
Message-ID: <2c22be12-2673-2261-4c75-db8b4bdc4367@howell61.f9.co.uk>



Hello Everyone,

As I type this I feel pinned to my seat by a beam of excessive HF from 
Hugh Scully's


mic, it's too much, back it off for heavens sake!


Hibou
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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Wed Nov 17 13:14:19 2021
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 19:14:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Typo
Message-ID: <7c6c813e-fffb-7518-b3dd-0b9b4c58f84f@howell61.f9.co.uk>

I meant (meaned) Huw Edwards of course.

Hibou.
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From techtone at protonmail.com  Wed Nov 17 14:34:39 2021
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 20:34:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
Message-ID: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>

Anyone else had an email from Amazon claiming that they won't be accepting payment by Visa credit cards, as they charge too much per transaction? Can't believe such a multi-national conglomerate notices small change like that sort of charge. Or is it some new form of scam I haven't come across before?

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.
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From davidvbrunt at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 14:38:53 2021
From: davidvbrunt at gmail.com (David Brunt)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 20:38:53 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
In-Reply-To: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
References: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <B2CFC81B7E234471BE394865BF190371@0023242e4e14>

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59306200?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA



From: techtone via Tech1 
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 8:34 PM
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat 
Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email

Anyone else had an email from Amazon claiming that they won't be accepting payment by Visa credit cards, as they charge too much per transaction? Can't believe such a multi-national conglomerate notices small change like that sort of charge. Or is it some new form of scam I haven't come across before?


TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.



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From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Nov 17 14:40:22 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 20:40:22 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
In-Reply-To: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
References: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <A7F9445A-85A8-4A65-85A1-82E11746436A@me.com>

Seems to be legit. It?s in the news, but the actual reason for it is unclear.

It doesn?t affect me, I cancelled all my Visa cards after Visa did a deal so that only Visa cards could be used at the London Olympics.  I wasn?t planning on going to the Olympics, but I think that deals of that sort are appalling and want nothing to do with companies that stoop so low.

Alan Taylor


> On 17 Nov 2021, at 20:35, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Anyone else had an email from Amazon claiming that they won't be accepting payment by Visa credit cards, as they charge too much per transaction? Can't believe such a multi-national conglomerate notices small change like that sort of charge. Or is it some new form of scam I haven't come across before?
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com  Wed Nov 17 14:54:43 2021
From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 20:54:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
In-Reply-To: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
References: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP-d_-rGe6zL=zhiR4M0JsYyv0i+NPdGCWza0=RN2BUH1WF9mQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes I had one too. I wish I could draw: I see two greedy old men fighting
over a small coin whilst each has a vast mountain of money behind them. One
is labelled Amazon, the other Visa. They're shouting "Mine...no, mine" at
each other.

John Nottage

On Wed, 17 Nov 2021, 20:35 techtone via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Anyone else had an email from Amazon claiming that they won't be accepting
> payment by Visa credit cards, as they charge too much per transaction?
> Can't believe such a multi-national conglomerate notices small change like
> that sort of charge. Or is it some new form of scam I haven't come across
> before?
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 14:58:27 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 20:58:27 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Verity Lambert
In-Reply-To: <61954097.1c69fb81.d15bb.411a@mx.google.com>
References: <6eccbc67-8d9f-dc79-6646-80605494cc4e@btinternet.com>	<f2a436a8-55dd-169a-8e91-a2ae876e703d@ntlworld.com>	<AM9P191MB19724E83D45724ACD051B573A79A9@AM9P191MB1972.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>	<e5f11a13-82a0-6d7f-620d-52a6de9dc813@btinternet.com>
	<61954097.1c69fb81.d15bb.411a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <012501d7dbf5$de68f590$9b3ae0b0$@gmail.com>

The OED defines ?crotch? as ?a place where something forks, esp the legs of the human body?

 

I myself didn?t work on any of the Dr Who productions during the years when Verity Lambert produced it, from its inception in November 1963 to when she left it in 1965.

Wikipedia says of her, ?Although Lambert was not the then BBC?s Head of Drama, Sydney Newman's first choice to produce the series? <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Taylor_(English_director_and_playwright)> Don Taylor and  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_Sutton> Shaun Sutton having both declined the position?he was very keen to ensure that she took the job after his experience of working with her at ABC. "I think the best thing I ever did was to find Verity Lambert," he told  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_Magazine> Doctor Who Magazine in 1993, adding, "I remembered Verity as being bright and, to use the phrase, full of piss and vinegar! She was gutsy and she used to fight and argue with me, even though she was not then at a very high level as a production assistant.? 

The Daily Mail in an article about Dr Who described Verity as ?tall, dark and shapely and positively forbidding when any criticism was made of her prize, the Daleks.?

 

Following Dr Who, she moved on to produce another BBC show created by Sydney Newman, the action-adventure series  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Adamant_Lives!> Adam Adamant Lives! (1966?67). That must be where I recall working with her when I was on crew 2, though I don?t have any clear memories of her. She went on to have a glittering career and sadly died in 2007, five days before her 72nd birthday.

Biddy Baxter, birth name Joan Maureen Baxter (and one wonders where the name Biddy derived from), was born two years before Verity and was an equally strong character who left her impression on everyone she worked with, or I should say who worked for her. She became a household name for Blue Peter as much as Verity Lambert did for Dr Who, and I like to think, my favourite Yvonne Littlewood did for Light Entertainment, principally the long running Val Doonican series.

We in turn, though smaller cogs in that big machine, had our place in keeping it running for which we may look back in gratitude, with thanks for the memories we share and the people we knew,

 

Geoff Hawkes

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of patheigham via Tech1
Sent: 17 November 2021 17:49
To: dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com>; Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Verity Lambert

 

I always thought that ?crotch? was American spelling ? maybe I?m wrong as it seems to refer to the junction of the legs to the torso.

?Crutch? is surely what Long John Silver used to keep mobile?

I never saw Biddy hobbling around the studio! (no parrot!).

Think she totally ignored the soft-soled shoe rule, and kept her high heels on, regardless.

 

Pat

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows

 

From: dave.mdv via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Sent: 17 November 2021 14:49
To: Nick Ware <mailto:waresound at msn.com> ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Verity Lambert

 

Absolutely, Nick! I'm very grateful you pointed that out! Cheers, Dave

On 17/11/2021 14:29, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:

I?m sure Dave meant crutch, as in: 

?a long stick with a crosspiece at the top, used as a support??etc.? or metaphorically, ?something people rely on when they shouldn?t need to? referring to the firm support she gave in the making of the programme she led.

Spelt with an ?o? might mean something different.

Isn?t that right, Dave?

Cheers,

Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

 

 

On 17/11/2021 00:48, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:

Are you confusing her with Biddy Baxter (Blue Peter) who was notorious for leading with her crutch! Cheers, Dave (who never had the attention!) 


-- 
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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Wed Nov 17 15:02:26 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 21:02:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
In-Reply-To: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
References: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AF6A0DA-9F09-4894-96AB-AA61A6A26993@icloud.com>

Regrettably it?s true, I thought it was a scam as well. I suspect they are trying it onto bully Visa into giving them a better deal.

Graeme Wall

> On 17 Nov 2021, at 20:35, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Anyone else had an email from Amazon claiming that they won't be accepting payment by Visa credit cards, as they charge too much per transaction? Can't believe such a multi-national conglomerate notices small change like that sort of charge. Or is it some new form of scam I haven't come across before?
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From david.jasma at sky.com  Wed Nov 17 15:44:42 2021
From: david.jasma at sky.com (david.jasma)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 21:44:42 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
In-Reply-To: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <1934958494.902412.1637185485815@sky.com>

The email is genuine. Amazon now considers the charges for using such cards? as being too high!Dave? Buckley??Sent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 17/11/2021  20:35  (GMT+00:00) To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email Anyone else had an email from Amazon claiming that they won't be accepting payment by Visa credit cards, as they charge too much per transaction? Can't believe such a multi-national conglomerate notices small change like that sort of charge. Or is it some new form of scam I haven't come across before?TeaTeaFN - TonySent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
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From alawrance1 at me.com  Wed Nov 17 16:53:05 2021
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:53:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
In-Reply-To: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
References: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <0FBD3E7D-5065-4677-81C6-2E5C65DC10F6@me.com>

I've had it Tony, and the BBC website has it.

I put it down to more willy-waving by Mr Bezos, as it happens I don't have a Visa Credit Card, so didn't pay much attention.

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 17 Nov 2021, at 20:35, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Anyone else had an email from Amazon claiming that they won't be accepting payment by Visa credit cards, as they charge too much per transaction? Can't believe such a multi-national conglomerate notices small change like that sort of charge. Or is it some new form of scam I haven't come across before?
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 17 17:03:11 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 23:03:11 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Verity Lambert
In-Reply-To: <61954097.1c69fb81.d15bb.411a@mx.google.com>
References: <6eccbc67-8d9f-dc79-6646-80605494cc4e@btinternet.com>	<f2a436a8-55dd-169a-8e91-a2ae876e703d@ntlworld.com>	<AM9P191MB19724E83D45724ACD051B573A79A9@AM9P191MB1972.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>	<e5f11a13-82a0-6d7f-620d-52a6de9dc813@btinternet.com>
	<61954097.1c69fb81.d15bb.411a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <015501d7dc07$4b157c20$e1407460$@gmail.com>

The OED defines ?crotch? as ?a place where something forks, esp the legs of the human body?

 

I myself didn?t work on any of the Dr Who productions during the years when Verity Lambert produced it, from its inception in November 1963 to when she left it in 1965.

Wikipedia says of her, ?Although Lambert was not the then BBC?s Head of Drama, Sydney Newman's first choice to produce the series? <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Taylor_(English_director_and_playwright)> Don Taylor and  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_Sutton> Shaun Sutton having both declined the position?he was very keen to ensure that she took the job after his experience of working with her at ABC. "I think the best thing I ever did was to find Verity Lambert," he told  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_Magazine> Doctor Who Magazine in 1993, adding, "I remembered Verity as being bright and, to use the phrase, full of piss and vinegar! She was gutsy and she used to fight and argue with me, even though she was not then at a very high level as a production assistant.? 

The Daily Mail in an article about Dr Who described Verity as ?tall, dark and shapely and positively forbidding when any criticism was made of her prize, the Daleks.?

 

Following Dr Who, she moved on to produce another BBC show created by Sydney Newman, the action-adventure series  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Adamant_Lives!> Adam Adamant Lives! (1966?67). That must be where I recall working with her when I was on crew 2, though I don?t have any clear memories of her. She went on to have a glittering career and sadly died in 2007, five days before her 72nd birthday.

Biddy Baxter, birth name Joan Maureen Baxter (and one wonders where the name Biddy derived from), was born two years before Verity and was an equally strong character who left her impression on everyone she worked with, or I should say who worked for her. She became a household name for Blue Peter as much as Verity Lambert did for Dr Who, and I like to think, my favourite Yvonne Littlewood did for Light Entertainment, principally the long running Val Doonican series.

We in turn, though smaller cogs in that big machine, had our place in keeping it running for which we may look back in gratitude, with thanks for the memories we share and the people we knew,

 

Geoff Hawkes

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of patheigham via Tech1
Sent: 17 November 2021 17:49
To: dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com>; Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Verity Lambert

 

I always thought that ?crotch? was American spelling ? maybe I?m wrong as it seems to refer to the junction of the legs to the torso.

?Crutch? is surely what Long John Silver used to keep mobile?

I never saw Biddy hobbling around the studio! (no parrot!).

Think she totally ignored the soft-soled shoe rule, and kept her high heels on, regardless.

 

Pat

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows

 

From: dave.mdv via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Sent: 17 November 2021 14:49
To: Nick Ware <mailto:waresound at msn.com> ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Verity Lambert

 

Absolutely, Nick! I'm very grateful you pointed that out! Cheers, Dave

On 17/11/2021 14:29, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:

I?m sure Dave meant crutch, as in: 

?a long stick with a crosspiece at the top, used as a support??etc.? or metaphorically, ?something people rely on when they shouldn?t need to? referring to the firm support she gave in the making of the programme she led.

Spelt with an ?o? might mean something different.

Isn?t that right, Dave?

Cheers,

Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

 

 

On 17/11/2021 00:48, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:

Are you confusing her with Biddy Baxter (Blue Peter) who was notorious for leading with her crutch! Cheers, Dave (who never had the attention!) 


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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 18 03:37:01 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 09:37:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] EQ AGAIN
In-Reply-To: <2c22be12-2673-2261-4c75-db8b4bdc4367@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <2c22be12-2673-2261-4c75-db8b4bdc4367@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <61961ebc.1c69fb81.62fff.cb8a@mx.google.com>

I didn?t experience this broadcast, but did anyone notice that Huw?s dialogue on the Friday 12th evening News was incredibly ?woolly? ? worse than it?s ever been. I viewed the RAH Festival, on Sat following, in case it had been Huw?s voice, but that was fine as he was on fixed mics, there. I did notice that there seemed to be no audio pick up from the bands marching in the arena, though ? the music seemed to be restricted to the orchestra on stage.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: John Howell via Tech1
Sent: 17 November 2021 18:50
To: TechOps Forum
Subject: [Tech1] EQ AGAIN



Hello Everyone,
As I type this I feel pinned to my seat by a beam of excessive HF from Hugh Scully's mic, it's too much, back it off for heavens sake!

Hibou



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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 18 03:57:46 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 09:57:46 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
In-Reply-To: <0FBD3E7D-5065-4677-81C6-2E5C65DC10F6@me.com>
References: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
	<0FBD3E7D-5065-4677-81C6-2E5C65DC10F6@me.com>
Message-ID: <6196239a.1c69fb81.d9f4a.d1bc@mx.google.com>

Many merchants will not accept payment by American Express for exactly the same reason that their commission fees are higher than the other credit cards.
Amazon accept Amex, so I?m surprised that they have taken a stand against Visa.
I use only Amex for Amazon, so when I got an unfamiliar debit to my Mastercard in favour of Amazon, I was immediately suspicious. In fact, my bank caught it before I did, as it was out of the usual spending pattern. They cancelled the Mastercard, sending a new card within three days, and leant on Amazon to make a refund of the dodgy amount!

For what it?s worth, Surrey Police, in their Neighbourhood Watch Newsletter offer this:
1. If you have received an email which you?re not quite sure about, forward it to the Suspicious Email Reporting Service (SERS) at report at phishing.gov.uk.
??
2. If you've received a suspicious text message, forward it to 7726. It won't cost you anything, and allows your provider to investigate the text and take action (if found to be a scam).
?
?3. If you come across an advert online that you think might be a scam, report it to the Advertising Standards Authority This allows the ASA to provide online service providers with the details they need to (if appropriate) remove these from websites.

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1
Sent: 17 November 2021 22:53
To: techtone
Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email

I've had it Tony, and the BBC website has it.

I put it down to more willy-waving by Mr Bezos, as it happens I don't have a Visa Credit Card, so didn't pay much attention.
Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.




On 17 Nov 2021, at 20:35, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
?
Anyone else had an email from Amazon claiming that they won't be accepting payment by Visa credit cards, as they charge too much per transaction? Can't believe such a multi-national conglomerate notices small change like that sort of charge. Or is it some new form of scam I haven't come across before?

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

-- 
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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Nov 18 04:21:22 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 10:21:22 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
In-Reply-To: <6196239a.1c69fb81.d9f4a.d1bc@mx.google.com>
References: <6196239a.1c69fb81.d9f4a.d1bc@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <A0661A11-B1EA-4CB8-9571-15AA9D88A297@me.com>

For anybody affected by this, Amazon will continue to accept payment via a Visa debit card, it?s just their credit cards which they will refuse.

Alan Taylor


> On 18 Nov 2021, at 09:58, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Many merchants will not accept payment by American Express for exactly the same reason that their commission fees are higher than the other credit cards.
> Amazon accept Amex, so I?m surprised that they have taken a stand against Visa.
> I use only Amex for Amazon, so when I got an unfamiliar debit to my Mastercard in favour of Amazon, I was immediately suspicious. In fact, my bank caught it before I did, as it was out of the usual spending pattern. They cancelled the Mastercard, sending a new card within three days, and leant on Amazon to make a refund of the dodgy amount!
>  
> For what it?s worth, Surrey Police, in their Neighbourhood Watch Newsletter offer this:
> 1. If you have received an email which you?re not quite sure about, forward it to the Suspicious Email Reporting Service (SERS) at report at phishing.gov.uk.
>   
> 2. If you've received a suspicious text message, forward it to 7726. It won't cost you anything, and allows your provider to investigate the text and take action (if found to be a scam).
>  
>  3. If you come across an advert online that you think might be a scam, report it to the Advertising Standards Authority This allows the ASA to provide online service providers with the details they need to (if appropriate) remove these from websites.
>  
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> From: Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1
> Sent: 17 November 2021 22:53
> To: techtone
> Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
>  
> I've had it Tony, and the BBC website has it.
>  
> I put it down to more willy-waving by Mr Bezos, as it happens I don't have a Visa Credit Card, so didn't pay much attention.
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
>  
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>  
>  
> 
> 
> On 17 Nov 2021, at 20:35, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Anyone else had an email from Amazon claiming that they won't be accepting payment by Visa credit cards, as they charge too much per transaction? Can't believe such a multi-national conglomerate notices small change like that sort of charge. Or is it some new form of scam I haven't come across before?
>  
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>  
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>  
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
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From waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov 18 04:41:10 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 10:41:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] EQ AGAIN
In-Reply-To: <61961ebc.1c69fb81.62fff.cb8a@mx.google.com>
References: <2c22be12-2673-2261-4c75-db8b4bdc4367@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<61961ebc.1c69fb81.62fff.cb8a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981F3EA7971F8659C6DCC25A79B9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

This has been discussed a number of times on IPS forums. Complain to the BBC, not here.
In the past they?ve blamed the news presenter?s makeup-clogged old ECM77. I offered to donate one of my good ones (I have four that rarely get used) - an offer not taken up! Then, it was blamed on codec errors on internal fibre links between London, Manchester and back again. Odd that video inserts, live inserts, and even Zoom contributions off contributors? laptops or phones, often sound far better than the presenter sitting in the studio!
Definitely an ongoing fault, I agree. You?d think that those involved in the making of the National News would occasionally view it on their home tellys and notice that it?s not right.

On the subject of complaining, I once did a Butlins commercial at Minehead. Sitting at a table with Bobby Butlin (then boss), I mentioned that at meal times the punters endlessly moaned to each other about the quality of food provided, and he replied ?As long as they complain to each other that?s fine. It?s only when they complain to us, or stop coming to Butlins, that we take any notice.?
Nowadays, there are computer programmes (in some cases built into the till software, notably at petrol stations), that measure sales against quality and selling price, and calculate the balance point where they can raise or lower price and/or quality.
Profit of course, being the only thing that matters.
That last sentence might just be me being cynical, of course, but I don?t think so.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 18 Nov 2021, at 09:37, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
I didn?t experience this broadcast, but did anyone notice that Huw?s dialogue on the Friday 12th evening News was incredibly ?woolly? ? worse than it?s ever been. I viewed the RAH Festival, on Sat following, in case it had been Huw?s voice, but that was fine as he was on fixed mics, there. I did notice that there seemed to be no audio pick up from the bands marching in the arena, though ? the music seemed to be restricted to the orchestra on stage.
Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: John Howell via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 17 November 2021 18:50
To: TechOps Forum<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: [Tech1] EQ AGAIN






Hello Everyone,

As I type this I feel pinned to my seat by a beam of excessive HF from Hugh Scully's mic, it's too much, back it off for heavens sake!



Hibou



________________________________
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 18 04:59:44 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 10:59:44 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Profit was EQ AGAIN
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981F3EA7971F8659C6DCC25A79B9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <2c22be12-2673-2261-4c75-db8b4bdc4367@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<61961ebc.1c69fb81.62fff.cb8a@mx.google.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981F3EA7971F8659C6DCC25A79B9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <61963220.1c69fb81.7eb53.ec86@mx.google.com>

Yeah! Profit!!
I was keen to work in the film industry, on movies that were good productions, and worth putting in the effort for. But it saddened me when I (cynically) discovered that producers were only interested in the money that it was going to make for them. In the old days of Hollywood, little attention was paid by the moguls, as to what the film going public would flock to. I cite the fact that MGM wanted to cut ?Over the Rainbow?, completely missing the audiences? adoption of what was an iconic number. But no-one has a crystal ball.
Pat



Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: 18 November 2021 10:41
Subject: Re: [Tech1] EQ AGAIN

Nowadays, there are computer programmes (in some cases built into the till software, notably at petrol stations), that measure sales against quality and selling price, and calculate the balance point where they can raise or lower price and/or quality. ?
Profit of course, being the only thing that matters.
That last sentence might just be me being cynical, of course, but I don?t think so.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5





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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 18 05:06:37 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 11:06:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] TVC take-over?
Message-ID: <619633bd.1c69fb81.4077a.066b@mx.google.com>

When one reads about the factory workers clubbing together and buying their firm, to keep it working ? I wonder, figuratively, whether all the staff that inhabited TVC over the years, would have been able, or willing, to purchase the iconic building and continue to operate it as a TV production facility?
I mean, we would know how to run it, maybe?
OK, Pat go back to your head in the clouds!!

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows



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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Nov 18 05:08:38 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 11:08:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Profit was EQ AGAIN
In-Reply-To: <61963220.1c69fb81.7eb53.ec86@mx.google.com>
References: <61963220.1c69fb81.7eb53.ec86@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <151D832F-3005-4930-A0B7-E2AA6F8F5A49@me.com>


> On 18 Nov 2021, at 11:00, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> MGM wanted to cut ?Over the Rainbow?, completely missing the audiences? adoption of what was an iconic number. But no-one has a crystal ball.

However if you put a crystal in your window, you get a rainbow whenever the sun shines through it. 
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Thu Nov 18 05:12:03 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 11:12:03 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] EQ AGAIN
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981F3EA7971F8659C6DCC25A79B9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <2c22be12-2673-2261-4c75-db8b4bdc4367@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<61961ebc.1c69fb81.62fff.cb8a@mx.google.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981F3EA7971F8659C6DCC25A79B9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <3153a898-dcac-7337-a469-3e24621154ea@btinternet.com>

Complain to the BBC? The sort of person who looks at complaints wouldn't 
have a clue what you're talking about. Hence the fatuous answer you 
got.? Anything to brush you off.

Perhaps they need older sound mixers on these progs with less than 
perfect hearing?

I do also wonder about the age of these mics. Electret mics deteriorate 
with age.

On 18/11/2021 10:41, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> This has been discussed a number of times on IPS forums. Complain to 
> the BBC, not here.
> In the past they?ve blamed the news presenter?s makeup-clogged old 
> ECM77. I offered to donate one of my good ones (I have four that 
> rarely get used) - an offer not taken up! Then, it was blamed on codec 
> errors on internal fibre links between London, Manchester and back 
> again. Odd that video inserts, live inserts, and even Zoom 
> contributions off contributors? laptops or phones, often sound far 
> better than the presenter sitting in the studio!
> Definitely an ongoing fault, I agree. You?d think that those involved 
> in the making of the National News would occasionally view it on their 
> home tellys and notice that it?s not right.
>
> On the subject of complaining, I once did a Butlins commercial at 
> Minehead. Sitting at a table with Bobby Butlin (then boss), I 
> mentioned that at meal times the punters endlessly moaned to each 
> other about the quality of food provided, and he replied ?As long as 
> they complain to each other that?s fine. It?s only when they complain 
> to us, or stop coming to Butlins, that we take any notice.?
> Nowadays, there are computer programmes (in some cases built into the 
> till software, notably at petrol stations), that measure sales against 
> quality and selling price, and calculate the balance point where they 
> can raise or lower price and/or quality.
> Profit of course, being the only thing that matters.
> That last sentence might just be me being cynical, of course, but I 
> don?t think so.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>> On 18 Nov 2021, at 09:37, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> I didn?t experience this broadcast, but did anyone notice that Huw?s 
>> dialogue on the Friday 12^th evening News was incredibly ?woolly? ? 
>> worse than it?s ever been. I viewed the RAH Festival, on Sat 
>> following, in case it had been Huw?s voice, but that was fine as he 
>> was on fixed mics, there. I did notice that there seemed to be no 
>> audio pick up from the bands marching in the arena, though ? the 
>> music seemed to be restricted to the orchestra on stage.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
>> Windows
>>
>> *From: *John Howell via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Sent: *17 November 2021 18:50
>> *To: *TechOps Forum <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Subject: *[Tech1] EQ AGAIN
>>
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> As I type this I feel pinned to my seat by a beam of excessive HF 
>> from Hugh Scully's mic, it's too much, back it off for heavens sake!
>>
>> Hibou
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
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>>
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>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov 18 05:17:41 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 11:17:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Profit was EQ AGAIN
In-Reply-To: <151D832F-3005-4930-A0B7-E2AA6F8F5A49@me.com>
References: <61963220.1c69fb81.7eb53.ec86@mx.google.com>
	<151D832F-3005-4930-A0B7-E2AA6F8F5A49@me.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981C31B0B502243923E81A9A79B9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

With the added bonus that you get to choose the music to go with it.
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 18 Nov 2021, at 11:08, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

On 18 Nov 2021, at 11:00, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
MGM wanted to cut ?Over the Rainbow?, completely missing the audiences? adoption of what was an iconic number. But no-one has a crystal ball.

However if you put a crystal in your window, you get a rainbow whenever the sun shines through it.
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 18 05:19:38 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 11:19:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Profit was EQ AGAIN
In-Reply-To: <151D832F-3005-4930-A0B7-E2AA6F8F5A49@me.com>
References: <61963220.1c69fb81.7eb53.ec86@mx.google.com>
	<151D832F-3005-4930-A0B7-E2AA6F8F5A49@me.com>
Message-ID: <619636ca.1c69fb81.204be.25b9@mx.google.com>

Nice one, Alan.
But what was wrong with my argument???
The fact that the audience only saw ?Over the Rainbow? when the film was released.
The producers would not have realised the wisdom of leaving it in, until that stage. Cutting it before release would not have seen the reaction.

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 18 November 2021 11:08
To: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Profit was EQ AGAIN


On 18 Nov 2021, at 11:00, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
MGM wanted to cut ?Over the Rainbow?, completely missing the audiences? adoption of what was an iconic number. But no-one has a crystal ball.

However if you put a crystal in your window, you get a rainbow whenever the sun shines through it.?



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From techtone at protonmail.com  Thu Nov 18 06:50:05 2021
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 12:50:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
In-Reply-To: <4AF6A0DA-9F09-4894-96AB-AA61A6A26993@icloud.com>
References: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
	<4AF6A0DA-9F09-4894-96AB-AA61A6A26993@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <X53TdsIzd5a4esG9FCg5sbd_2blK-euR4AXVY6LMbQJwb-R88CB9mtAVCoBkRRrrPXbmu8jymGdqi-JGMu3W7aIE9tAOdVKOebKvTOWb3eY=@protonmail.com>

Thanks for all for your replies, and although I've used Amazon in the past, I now try and deal directly with the manufacturer. Hopefully, we may even see some items return to our local shops!

From my own POV, I've just spent many a long day having to re-arrange my finances as Tesco decided to close all its current accounts. Especially galling as I originally made the decision on the facts that it was:
British
Large supermarket unlikely to collapse as everyone needs food, etc.
Already had their credit card
Linked to clubcard for points

And having had it running for a while, never had trouble getting through on the phone, and always found them very helpful, so I certainly never expected this present debacle.

I also notice that M&S has done exactly the same. Who would have thought that these organisations were unable to make enough profit from banking? Yes, all about profit, never customer service (not shopping at Tesco these days).

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.

??????? Original Message ???????
On Wednesday, November 17th, 2021 at 21:02, Graeme Wall <graeme.wall at icloud.com> wrote:

> Regrettably it?s true, I thought it was a scam as well. I suspect they are trying it onto bully Visa into giving them a better deal.
>
> Graeme Wall
>
>> On 17 Nov 2021, at 20:35, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> ?
>> Anyone else had an email from Amazon claiming that they won't be accepting payment by Visa credit cards, as they charge too much per transaction? Can't believe such a multi-national conglomerate notices small change like that sort of charge. Or is it some new form of scam I haven't come across before?
>>
>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>
>> Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 18 11:05:13 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 17:05:13 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
In-Reply-To: <X53TdsIzd5a4esG9FCg5sbd_2blK-euR4AXVY6LMbQJwb-R88CB9mtAVCoBkRRrrPXbmu8jymGdqi-JGMu3W7aIE9tAOdVKOebKvTOWb3eY=@protonmail.com>
References: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
	<4AF6A0DA-9F09-4894-96AB-AA61A6A26993@icloud.com>
	<X53TdsIzd5a4esG9FCg5sbd_2blK-euR4AXVY6LMbQJwb-R88CB9mtAVCoBkRRrrPXbmu8jymGdqi-JGMu3W7aIE9tAOdVKOebKvTOWb3eY=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <619687c9.1c69fb81.cb3ad.23c4@mx.google.com>

I?ve used Amazon a great deal, mainly because of pricing and delivery time, which is a trading policy.
I would recommend a read of James Patterson?s ?The Store?
which takes the lid off this pressure selling, inasmuch as the folks in the story are conditioned into buying from The Store, there being no other source. It?s getting that way with a certain outlet!!
(The Store doesn't just want your money ? it wants your soul. The Store is history's most powerful retailer. It can deliver anything to your door, using your data to anticipate needs and desires you didn't even know you had. Most people are fine with that.) 

Now is that sounding rather familiar?

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: techtone via Tech1
Sent: 18 November 2021 12:50
Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email

Thanks for all for your replies, and although I've used Amazon in the past, I now try and deal directly with the manufacturer. Hopefully, we may even see some items return to our local shops!

>From my own POV, I've just spent many a long day having to re-arrange my finances as Tesco decided to close all its current accounts. Especially galling as I originally made the decision on the facts that it was:
British
Large supermarket unlikely to collapse as everyone needs food, etc.
Already had their credit card
Linked to clubcard for points

And having had it running for a while, never had trouble getting through on the phone, and always found them very helpful, so I certainly never expected this present debacle.

I also notice that M&S has done exactly the same. Who would have thought that these organisations were unable to make enough profit from banking? Yes, all about profit, never customer service (not shopping at Tesco these days).

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.




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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Thu Nov 18 12:13:34 2021
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 18:13:34 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
In-Reply-To: <619687c9.1c69fb81.cb3ad.23c4@mx.google.com>
References: <619687c9.1c69fb81.cb3ad.23c4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <729BF4CC-1873-4B84-86C2-3C28026D901D@zero51.force9.co.uk>

We stopped using Amazon when it appeared that they were treating their (his) staff like expendable  robots. Particular sympathy for the robots speaking as a 77 year old that often needs sudden and undeniable comfort breaks. Bezos is taking the (insert appropriate word) and meanwhile sharing jollies into not-quite-outer space with similarly over-rewarded chums. (William Shatner excepted)
 So the Visa ban is his problem and not mine.
Peter Fox

On 18 Nov 2021, at 17:05, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
I?ve used Amazon a great deal, mainly because of pricing and delivery time, which is a trading policy.
I would recommend a read of James Patterson?s ?The Store?
which takes the lid off this pressure selling, inasmuch as the folks in the story are conditioned into buying from The Store, there being no other source It?s getting that way with a certain outlet!!
(The Store doesn't just want your money ? it wants your soul. The Store is history's most powerful retailer. It can deliver anything to your door, using your data to anticipate needs and desires you didn't even know you had. Most people are fine with that.)
 
Now is that sounding rather familiar?
 
Pat
 
Sent from Mail for Windows
 
From: techtone via Tech1
Sent: 18 November 2021 12:50
Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
 
Thanks for all for your replies, and although I've used Amazon in the past, I now try and deal directly with the manufacturer. Hopefully, we may even see some items return to our local shops!
 
From my own POV, I've just spent many a long day having to re-arrange my finances as Tesco decided to close all its current accounts. Especially galling as I originally made the decision on the facts that it was:
British
Large supermarket unlikely to collapse as everyone needs food, etc.
Already had their credit card
Linked to clubcard for points
 
And having had it running for a while, never had trouble getting through on the phone, and always found them very helpful, so I certainly never expected this present debacle.
 
I also notice that M&S has done exactly the same. Who would have thought that these organisations were unable to make enough profit from banking? Yes, all about profit, never customer service (not shopping at Tesco these days).
 
TeaTeaFN - Tony
 
Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
 
 


 	
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
www.avast.com


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From waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov 18 13:57:12 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 19:57:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
In-Reply-To: <729BF4CC-1873-4B84-86C2-3C28026D901D@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <619687c9.1c69fb81.cb3ad.23c4@mx.google.com>
	<729BF4CC-1873-4B84-86C2-3C28026D901D@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981EB8D35DF5061177DAC18A79B9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I?m not defending Bezos and his squandering stupid amounts of money going into space for no good reason, but have you ever been to Dubai? How do you think that got built? We did a 60 Minutes investigation into imported slave labour and were lucky to get out alive.
At least Amazon employees get to go home at night.
And: re- Amazon and Visa. Amazon will have done the calculations and so will Visa. Publicity stunt, I?d say. And the banks will love it because people will use bank overdrafts rather than maxed-out credit cards.
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 18 Nov 2021, at 18:14, Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? We stopped using Amazon when it appeared that they were treating their (his) staff like expendable  robots. Particular sympathy for the robots speaking as a 77 year old that often needs sudden and undeniable comfort breaks. Bezos is taking the (insert appropriate word) and meanwhile sharing jollies into not-quite-outer space with similarly over-rewarded chums. (William Shatner excepted)
 So the Visa ban is his problem and not mine.
Peter Fox

On 18 Nov 2021, at 17:05, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
I?ve used Amazon a great deal, mainly because of pricing and delivery time, which is a trading policy.
I would recommend a read of James Patterson?s ?The Store?
which takes the lid off this pressure selling, inasmuch as the folks in the story are conditioned into buying from The Store, there being no other source. It?s getting that way with a certain outlet!!
(The Store doesn't just want your money ? it wants your soul. The Store is history's most powerful retailer. It can deliver anything to your door, using your data to anticipate needs and desires you didn't even know you had. Most people are fine with that.)

Now is that sounding rather familiar?

Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: techtone via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 18 November 2021 12:50
Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email

Thanks for all for your replies, and although I've used Amazon in the past, I now try and deal directly with the manufacturer. Hopefully, we may even see some items return to our local shops!

From my own POV, I've just spent many a long day having to re-arrange my finances as Tesco decided to close all its current accounts. Especially galling as I originally made the decision on the facts that it was:
British
Large supermarket unlikely to collapse as everyone needs food, etc.
Already had their credit card
Linked to clubcard for points

And having had it running for a while, never had trouble getting through on the phone, and always found them very helpful, so I certainly never expected this present debacle.

I also notice that M&S has done exactly the same. Who would have thought that these organisations were unable to make enough profit from banking? Yes, all about profit, never customer service (not shopping at Tesco these days).

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with ProtonMail<https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.




________________________________
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www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/antivirus>

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Nov 18 17:59:20 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 23:59:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Amex
In-Reply-To: <6196239a.1c69fb81.d9f4a.d1bc@mx.google.com>
References: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
	<0FBD3E7D-5065-4677-81C6-2E5C65DC10F6@me.com>
	<6196239a.1c69fb81.d9f4a.d1bc@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <67a140c5-0aba-0dfe-6af4-85929d397f4a@btinternet.com>

The first time we took the family to the US, just after Freddie Laker 
made it cheap enough, I joined up with Amex as I thought it would be 
more use than my Visa and Mastercards. Imagine my surprise when hardly 
anyone over there took Amex and asked for Visa! Later on, the BBC had 
it's own Amex cards, but again no-one wanted us to use them so when it 
expired that was that. Cheers, Dave

On 18/11/2021 09:57, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Many merchants will not accept payment by American Express for exactly 
> the same reason that their commission fees are higher than the other 
> credit cards.
>
> Amazon accept Amex, so I?m surprised that they have taken a stand 
> against Visa.
>
> I use only Amex for Amazon, so when I got an unfamiliar debit to my 
> Mastercard in favour of Amazon, I was immediately suspicious. In fact, 
> my bank caught it before I did, as it was out of the usual spending 
> pattern. They cancelled the Mastercard, sending a new card within 
> three days, and leant on Amazon to make a refund of the dodgy amount!
>
> For what it?s worth, Surrey Police, in their Neighbourhood Watch 
> Newsletter offer this:
>
> 1. If you have received an email which you?re not quite sure about, 
> forward it to the Suspicious Email Reporting Service (SERS) at 
> report at phishing.gov.uk.
>
> 2. If you've received a suspicious text message, forward it to 7726. 
> It won't cost you anything, and allows your provider to investigate 
> the text and take action (if found to be a scam).
>
> ?3. If you come across an advert online that you think might be a 
> scam, report it to the Advertising Standards Authority This allows the 
> ASA to provide online service providers with the details they need to 
> (if appropriate) remove these from websites.
>
> Pat
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows
>
> *From: *Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *17 November 2021 22:53
> *To: *techtone <mailto:techtone at protonmail.com>
> *Cc: *Tech-Ops-chit-chat <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Purported Amazon email
>
> I've had it Tony, and the BBC website has it.
>
> I put it down to more willy-waving by Mr Bezos, as it happens I don't 
> have a Visa Credit Card, so didn't pay much attention.
>
> Alasdair Lawrance
>
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>
>
>
>     On 17 Nov 2021, at 20:35, techtone via Tech1
>     <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>     ?
>
>     Anyone else had an email from Amazon claiming that they won't be
>     accepting payment by Visa credit cards, as they charge too much
>     per transaction? Can't believe such a multi-national conglomerate
>     notices small change like that sort of charge. Or is it some new
>     form of scam I haven't come across before?
>
>     TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
>     Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Nov 18 18:11:50 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 00:11:50 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Tesco
In-Reply-To: <X53TdsIzd5a4esG9FCg5sbd_2blK-euR4AXVY6LMbQJwb-R88CB9mtAVCoBkRRrrPXbmu8jymGdqi-JGMu3W7aIE9tAOdVKOebKvTOWb3eY=@protonmail.com>
References: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
	<4AF6A0DA-9F09-4894-96AB-AA61A6A26993@icloud.com>
	<X53TdsIzd5a4esG9FCg5sbd_2blK-euR4AXVY6LMbQJwb-R88CB9mtAVCoBkRRrrPXbmu8jymGdqi-JGMu3W7aIE9tAOdVKOebKvTOWb3eY=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <94f3a67a-bacc-6269-998e-48cf71b1e3a2@btinternet.com>

Their mobile phone deals are terrific though! Everytime I renew my 
contract and upgrade the? phone it is cheaper than the last one. My 
first with them, a Samsung Galaxy S3 Mini cost about ?18/month plus ?8 
insurance, the next was a Galaxy A10 for ?12/month plus ?5 insurance, 
and my latest is the amazing Galaxy A12 for ?10.99/ month plus ?3 
insurance! Some things do go down but others don't ! On 12th. May 2020 I 
filled up with petrol at 99p./litre, today it cost me ?1.46.9/litre 
having passed a garage with it at ?1.49.9! Cheers, Dave

On 18/11/2021 12:50, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
> Thanks for all for your replies, and although I've used Amazon in the 
> past, I now try and deal directly with the manufacturer. Hopefully, we 
> may even see some items return to our local shops!
>
> From my own POV, I've just spent many a long day having to re-arrange 
> my finances as Tesco decided to close all its current accounts. 
> Especially galling as I originally made the decision on the facts that 
> it was:
> British
> Large supermarket unlikely to collapse as everyone needs food, etc.
> Already had their credit card
> Linked to clubcard for points
>
> And having had it running for a while, never had trouble getting 
> through on the phone, and always found them very helpful, so I 
> certainly never expected this present debacle.
>
> I also notice that M&S has done exactly the same. Who would have 
> thought that these organisations were unable to make enough profit 
> from banking? Yes, all about profit, never customer service (not 
> shopping at Tesco these days).
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
>
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On Wednesday, November 17th, 2021 at 21:02, Graeme Wall 
> <graeme.wall at icloud.com> wrote:
>> Regrettably it?s true, I thought it was a scam as well. I suspect 
>> they are trying it onto bully Visa into giving them a better deal.
>>
>> Graeme Wall
>>
>>> On 17 Nov 2021, at 20:35, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> Anyone else had an email from Amazon claiming that they won't be 
>>> accepting payment by Visa credit cards, as they charge too much per 
>>> transaction? Can't believe such a multi-national conglomerate 
>>> notices small change like that sort of charge. Or is it some new 
>>> form of scam I haven't come across before?
>>>
>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>
>>> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Fri Nov 19 02:23:47 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 08:23:47 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Tesco
In-Reply-To: <94f3a67a-bacc-6269-998e-48cf71b1e3a2@btinternet.com>
References: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com><4AF6A0DA-9F09-4894-96AB-AA61A6A26993@icloud.com><X53TdsIzd5a4esG9FCg5sbd_2blK-euR4AXVY6LMbQJwb-R88CB9mtAVCoBkRRrrPXbmu8jymGdqi-JGMu3W7aIE9tAOdVKOebKvTOWb3eY=@protonmail.com>
	<94f3a67a-bacc-6269-998e-48cf71b1e3a2@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <6F6D7530A03E4A44BC3BFF1F90355B32@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Be grateful for small mercies Dave! Round here many garages have somewhat more elevated petrol prices with diesel commonly sitting around 151.9. I?ve never understood why from one garage to another the cost margin from petrol to diesel can be anywhere from 1p to 8p.

Dave Newbitt.

From: dave.mdv via Tech1 
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2021 12:11 AM
To: techtone ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Tesco

Their mobile phone deals are terrific though! Everytime I renew my contract and upgrade the  phone it is cheaper than the last one. My first with them, a Samsung Galaxy S3 Mini cost about ?18/month plus ?8 insurance, the next was a Galaxy A10 for ?12/month plus ?5 insurance, and my latest is the amazing Galaxy A12 for ?10.99/ month plus ?3 insurance! Some things do go down but others don't ! On 12th. May 2020 I filled up with petrol at 99p./litre, today it cost me ?1.46.9/litre having passed a garage with it at ?1.49.9! Cheers, Dave


On 18/11/2021 12:50, techtone via Tech1 wrote:

  Thanks for all for your replies, and although I've used Amazon in the past, I now try and deal directly with the manufacturer. Hopefully, we may even see some items return to our local shops!


  From my own POV, I've just spent many a long day having to re-arrange my finances as Tesco decided to close all its current accounts. Especially galling as I originally made the decision on the facts that it was:

  British

  Large supermarket unlikely to collapse as everyone needs food, etc.

  Already had their credit card

  Linked to clubcard for points


  And having had it running for a while, never had trouble getting through on the phone, and always found them very helpful, so I certainly never expected this present debacle.


  I also notice that M&S has done exactly the same. Who would have thought that these organisations were unable to make enough profit from banking? Yes, all about profit, never customer service (not shopping at Tesco these days).


  TeaTeaFN - Tony

  Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

  ??????? Original Message ???????
  On Wednesday, November 17th, 2021 at 21:02, Graeme Wall mailto:graeme.wall at icloud.com wrote:

    Regrettably it?s true, I thought it was a scam as well. I suspect they are trying it onto bully Visa into giving them a better deal.


    Graeme Wall


      On 17 Nov 2021, at 20:35, techtone via Tech1 mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk wrote:


      ? 
      Anyone else had an email from Amazon claiming that they won't be accepting payment by Visa credit cards, as they charge too much per transaction? Can't believe such a multi-national conglomerate notices small change like that sort of charge. Or is it some new form of scam I haven't come across before?


      TeaTeaFN - Tony

      Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

      -- 
      Tech1 mailing list
      Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
      http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk




   


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 19 03:55:01 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 09:55:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] E10 petrol
Message-ID: <06f4a7a4-e02d-d90c-052d-58e86ea65a63@btinternet.com>

Have used a couple of tanks of E10. My car usage has been pretty similar 
week to week recently due to Covid - just local journeys in London, 
outside rush hour. And it's not that suitable for that being a fairly 
large engined petrol auto, so heavy on fuel in town use. It says to use 
high octane petrol where possible, but I never have as it runs OK on 95 
octane.

I only fill up when near empty, and zero the OBC, so have a good idea 
how similar my use is - miles per tank full,? average MPG and MPH. And 
the MPG seems noticeably worse with E10.

With current high prices, the percentage differential in cost between 98 
and 95 has got smaller. So because of that and the ethanol, 98 having 
less, I've decided to see if it is actually cheaper to use 98 now.



From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Nov 19 04:19:27 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 10:19:27 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] E10 petrol
In-Reply-To: <06f4a7a4-e02d-d90c-052d-58e86ea65a63@btinternet.com>
References: <06f4a7a4-e02d-d90c-052d-58e86ea65a63@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <A33C8E1E-35F2-4024-BCE8-D72985A6F672@me.com>

E10 fuel has been the norm in Germany for quite a few years now ( I would guess at around 8 years ) and we?ve filled up with it every time we?ve been over there because it?s the cheapest fuel.

Our cars have fairly small 3 cylinder eco-boost engines ( zero road tax in UK ), but we haven?t noticed any significant fuel consumption issues between local driving in Germany or Britain.  Autobahn driving is normally thirstier than motorway driving, but our autobahn cruising speeds are rather higher than motorway speeds.

There are some large German petrol stations with amazing varieties of fuel available. The big illuminated sign offers more options than some wine lists. If this trend continues, they will need to employ hydrocarbon sommeliers to suggest what might go with your chosen car. 

Alan Taylor


> On 19 Nov 2021, at 09:55, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Have used a couple of tanks of E10. My car usage has been pretty similar week to week recently due to Covid - just local journeys in London, outside rush hour. And it's not that suitable for that being a fairly large engined petrol auto, so heavy on fuel in town use. It says to use high octane petrol where possible, but I never have as it runs OK on 95 octane.
> 
> I only fill up when near empty, and zero the OBC, so have a good idea how similar my use is - miles per tank full,  average MPG and MPH. And the MPG seems noticeably worse with E10.
> 
> With current high prices, the percentage differential in cost between 98 and 95 has got smaller. So because of that and the ethanol, 98 having less, I've decided to see if it is actually cheaper to use 98 now.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 04:38:34 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 10:38:34 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] E10 petrol
In-Reply-To: <06f4a7a4-e02d-d90c-052d-58e86ea65a63@btinternet.com>
References: <06f4a7a4-e02d-d90c-052d-58e86ea65a63@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <7335b68b-75e9-5751-0e9e-edb84f485554@ntlworld.com>

I recently topped up my Rover V8 engined car with Shell V-Power E5, just 
for safety. As the car doesn't have a roof, and I've been busy, I 
haven't found out where it goes better with 98.

B



On 19/11/2021 09:55, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> Have used a couple of tanks of E10. My car usage has been pretty 
> similar week to week recently due to Covid - just local journeys in 
> London, outside rush hour. And it's not that suitable for that being a 
> fairly large engined petrol auto, so heavy on fuel in town use. It 
> says to use high octane petrol where possible, but I never have as it 
> runs OK on 95 octane.
>
> I only fill up when near empty, and zero the OBC, so have a good idea 
> how similar my use is - miles per tank full,? average MPG and MPH. And 
> the MPG seems noticeably worse with E10.
>
> With current high prices, the percentage differential in cost between 
> 98 and 95 has got smaller. So because of that and the ethanol, 98 
> having less, I've decided to see if it is actually cheaper to use 98 now.
>
>
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 19 05:37:21 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 11:37:21 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] E10 petrol
In-Reply-To: <7335b68b-75e9-5751-0e9e-edb84f485554@ntlworld.com>
References: <06f4a7a4-e02d-d90c-052d-58e86ea65a63@btinternet.com>
	<7335b68b-75e9-5751-0e9e-edb84f485554@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <008301d7dd39$d0e26010$72a72030$@gmail.com>

 

I?ve been using E10 in my 2018 Polo since the changeover and the mpg has remained consistent. The cheapest price around here is ?146.9/L at Tesco and I usually wait till the red light comes on at 50 miles remaining before filling up, at which point it says the range is 420 miles or thereabouts, depending on how much I manage to cram in without spilling a precious thimbleful, if I can,

 

Geoff

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 19 November 2021 10:39
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Cc: Bernard Newnham <bernie833 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] E10 petrol

 

I recently topped up my Rover V8 engined car with Shell V-Power E5, just for safety. As the car doesn't have a roof, and I've been busy, I haven't found out where it goes better with 98.

B




On 19/11/2021 09:55, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:

Have used a couple of tanks of E10. My car usage has been pretty similar week to week recently due to Covid - just local journeys in London, outside rush hour. And it's not that suitable for that being a fairly large engined petrol auto, so heavy on fuel in town use. It says to use high octane petrol where possible, but I never have as it runs OK on 95 octane. 

I only fill up when near empty, and zero the OBC, so have a good idea how similar my use is - miles per tank full,  average MPG and MPH. And the MPG seems noticeably worse with E10. 

With current high prices, the percentage differential in cost between 98 and 95 has got smaller. So because of that and the ethanol, 98 having less, I've decided to see if it is actually cheaper to use 98 now. 



 

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From rerb2 at cam.ac.uk  Fri Nov 19 05:53:00 2021
From: rerb2 at cam.ac.uk (R.E.R. Bunce)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 11:53:00 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Roger Bunce in DIY magazine
Message-ID: <5CBE816A-921D-4748-8669-632D9F916EDF@cam.ac.uk>

Dear All,

I?m making slow progress going through my Dad?s papers. Today I found a copy of DIY Magazine from December 1968. It contains a short piece about my Dad including a photo.

Enjoy,

Robin

[cid:3D508E71-3805-4E47-9C74-70D05219C0F2]


Sent from my iPhone
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From alawrance1 at me.com  Fri Nov 19 05:54:31 2021
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 11:54:31 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] E10 petrol
In-Reply-To: <008301d7dd39$d0e26010$72a72030$@gmail.com>
References: <06f4a7a4-e02d-d90c-052d-58e86ea65a63@btinternet.com>
	<7335b68b-75e9-5751-0e9e-edb84f485554@ntlworld.com>
	<008301d7dd39$d0e26010$72a72030$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8AD8652D-CD18-487B-A438-FF2CA183F612@me.com>

Our cars recommend 98 octane, and Sainsbury's, our local filling station, keep at least one 98 pump with E5, so it doesn't worry us.

For the difference in price, and the amount used, I've started using it in the mowers and ride-on, as I understand it's when the fuel is left standing that problems can occur.

'Red' diesel, which these days is just white diesel coloured, is due to be replaced in narrowboats next year, and some people are already ripping out perfectly serviceable diesel engines
in anticipation, but with no real network of charging facilities in place that seems risky.   Hydrolised vegetable oil is being tried and said to have good results, but I will wait and see.

Alasdair Lawrance
alawrance1 at me.com

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.










> On 19 Nov 2021, at 11:37, geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>  
> I?ve been using E10 in my 2018 Polo since the changeover and the mpg has remained consistent. The cheapest price around here is ?146.9/L at Tesco and I usually wait till the red light comes on at 50 miles remaining before filling up, at which point it says the range is 420 miles or thereabouts, depending on how much I manage to cram in without spilling a precious thimbleful, if I can,
>  
> Geoff
>  
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Bernard Newnham via Tech1
> Sent: 19 November 2021 10:39
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Cc: Bernard Newnham <bernie833 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] E10 petrol
>  
> I recently topped up my Rover V8 engined car with Shell V-Power E5, just for safety. As the car doesn't have a roof, and I've been busy, I haven't found out where it goes better with 98.
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
> On 19/11/2021 09:55, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
>> Have used a couple of tanks of E10. My car usage has been pretty similar week to week recently due to Covid - just local journeys in London, outside rush hour. And it's not that suitable for that being a fairly large engined petrol auto, so heavy on fuel in town use. It says to use high octane petrol where possible, but I never have as it runs OK on 95 octane. 
>> 
>> I only fill up when near empty, and zero the OBC, so have a good idea how similar my use is - miles per tank full,  average MPG and MPH. And the MPG seems noticeably worse with E10. 
>> 
>> With current high prices, the percentage differential in cost between 98 and 95 has got smaller. So because of that and the ethanol, 98 having less, I've decided to see if it is actually cheaper to use 98 now. 
>> 
>> 
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Nov 19 07:00:12 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 13:00:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Amex
In-Reply-To: <67a140c5-0aba-0dfe-6af4-85929d397f4a@btinternet.com>
References: <yWAWPCWf-y__Wn9ZGi8BZLyXMRm8UHiJFAjxr7wZUqm__7TCzErY1cuVkgOFZmW81qoTkbVQ4KBKAt4cWt1RLkggS458GGNMlIsTPEc-X0g=@protonmail.com>
	<0FBD3E7D-5065-4677-81C6-2E5C65DC10F6@me.com>
	<6196239a.1c69fb81.d9f4a.d1bc@mx.google.com>
	<67a140c5-0aba-0dfe-6af4-85929d397f4a@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <61979fdd.1c69fb81.1e4d.4529@mx.google.com>

Yes, my then HOD (Production Mixer) was surprised that Amex wasn?t widely accepted in the US. Rather belies the name!
I hold a British Airways Amex card as it earns airmiles, but goodness knows if I?ll ever use them. Mostly built up flying BA in my freelance career. Nice story attached.
I would like to visit NZ, but BA doesn?t fly direct any more, and Air New Zealand is not party to the airmiles scheme, I don?t think.
But I could stop off in Sydney where I have two lots of ex-pat friends.
I had a Diners Club card for a while, as the cameraman I worked through would ask me to handle the expenses
of baggage fees, hire vehicles and hotel bills. I got quite a lot of prezzies with the points, which said cameraman wanted for himself. I refused, and after that he instituted a company credit card which should have been the case from square one!
Pat

 
CalStar off Cocos Islands

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: dave.mdv
Sent: 18 November 2021 23:59
To: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Amex

The first time we took the family to the US, just after Freddie Laker made it cheap enough, I joined up with Amex as I thought it would be more use than my Visa and Mastercards. Imagine my surprise when hardly anyone over there took Amex and asked for Visa! Later on, the BBC had it's own Amex cards, but again no-one wanted us to use them so when it expired that was that. Cheers, Dave



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 19 07:02:24 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 13:02:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] E10 petrol
In-Reply-To: <7335b68b-75e9-5751-0e9e-edb84f485554@ntlworld.com>
References: <06f4a7a4-e02d-d90c-052d-58e86ea65a63@btinternet.com>
	<7335b68b-75e9-5751-0e9e-edb84f485554@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <98cae251-1a12-758e-d8a0-a425f4f98c4b@btinternet.com>

Lots of worries in the meja about ethanol damaging older cars. But seems 
to be mainly flexible fuel hoses made from rubber or a variation of 
that. But on my RV8 engined car, they've all been replaced over the 
years and would be no big deal to change to ethanol proof, if it proves 
necessary. The E10 scare stories in the meja remind me of those when 
leaded petrol was stopped.

On 19/11/2021 10:38, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:

> I recently topped up my Rover V8 engined car with Shell V-Power E5, 
> just for safety. As the car doesn't have a roof, and I've been busy, I 
> haven't found out where it goes better with 98.
>
> B
>
>
>
> On 19/11/2021 09:55, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
>> Have used a couple of tanks of E10. My car usage has been pretty 
>> similar week to week recently due to Covid - just local journeys in 
>> London, outside rush hour. And it's not that suitable for that being 
>> a fairly large engined petrol auto, so heavy on fuel in town use. It 
>> says to use high octane petrol where possible, but I never have as it 
>> runs OK on 95 octane.
>>
>> I only fill up when near empty, and zero the OBC, so have a good idea 
>> how similar my use is - miles per tank full,? average MPG and MPH. 
>> And the MPG seems noticeably worse with E10.
>>
>> With current high prices, the percentage differential in cost between 
>> 98 and 95 has got smaller. So because of that and the ethanol, 98 
>> having less, I've decided to see if it is actually cheaper to use 98 
>> now.
>>
>>
>
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Nov 19 07:30:37 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 13:30:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] E10 petrol
In-Reply-To: <008301d7dd39$d0e26010$72a72030$@gmail.com>
References: <06f4a7a4-e02d-d90c-052d-58e86ea65a63@btinternet.com>
	<7335b68b-75e9-5751-0e9e-edb84f485554@ntlworld.com>
	<008301d7dd39$d0e26010$72a72030$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6197a6fe.1c69fb81.f4624.ed40@mx.google.com>

I usually fill up at a Sainsbury?s station, which is the cheapest in my area. Mind you, the fuel expended on getting there probably wipes out the pennies saved!
When I bought my current car ? now 12 years old! I accidentally ordered a 3-litre engine, thinking that 325 meant a 2.5 litre. It was pointed out by the insurance company!
OK, there?s plenty of horses under the bonnet, but I do not want to best off a Porsche at the traffic lights ? I?m no longer a boy racer!
I only keep a record of mpg for long journeys ? too depressing for short local shopping trips, but for long journeys it returns around 40-42, considerably better than my previous vehicle.
I love it to bits, making sure it?s serviced at the appropriate 2 year intervals by a main dealership and it was bought with the tax-free cash sum when my pension annuities matured.
Smirky pic attached.

Pat



Sent from Mail for Windows

From: geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1
Sent: 19 November 2021 11:37
To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com; 'Dave Plowman'
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; 'Bernard Newnham'
Subject: Re: [Tech1] E10 petrol


I?ve been using E10 in my 2018 Polo since the changeover and the mpg has remained consistent. The cheapest price around here is ?146.9/L at Tesco and I usually wait till the red light comes on at 50 miles remaining before filling up, at which point it says the range is 420 miles or thereabouts, depending on how much I manage to cram in without spilling a precious thimbleful, if I can,

Geoff




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 19 08:47:07 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 14:47:07 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] E10 petrol
In-Reply-To: <8AD8652D-CD18-487B-A438-FF2CA183F612@me.com>
References: <06f4a7a4-e02d-d90c-052d-58e86ea65a63@btinternet.com>
	<7335b68b-75e9-5751-0e9e-edb84f485554@ntlworld.com>
	<008301d7dd39$d0e26010$72a72030$@gmail.com>
	<8AD8652D-CD18-487B-A438-FF2CA183F612@me.com>
Message-ID: <598ddda5c8davesound@btinternet.com>

An ex BBC colleague who I also worked with on The Bill, ran his basic
diesel car (before they had electronic control) on old cooking oil. IIRC
his son worked for a large organisation, and it suited both them and him
to have free disposal of the old. He used to clean it using a home made
filter system in his garden, then straight into the tank. Many of you will
know him, but I won't name him in case it wasn't 100% legal. Car did many
many miles with no problems from the fuel.     


In article <8AD8652D-CD18-487B-A438-FF2CA183F612 at me.com>,
   Alasdair Lawrance <alawrance1 at me.com> wrote:
> 'Red' diesel, which these days is just white diesel coloured, is due to
> be replaced in narrowboats next year, and some people are already
> ripping out perfectly serviceable diesel engines in anticipation, but
> with no real network of charging facilities in place that seems risky.  
> Hydrolised vegetable oil is being tried and said to have good results,
> but I will wait and see.

-- 
          Dave                                      London UK
      


From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Nov 19 09:42:06 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 15:42:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] E10 petrol
In-Reply-To: <598ddda5c8davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <598ddda5c8davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <467253B9-7BF5-4A35-AA6C-264E3A44C9C5@me.com>

In rural areas it?s not unknown for people to use red diesel ( much lower tax rate ) in road-going vehicles, even though it?s illegal to do so. 

In cold weather people sometimes mix heating oil ( kerosine ) with diesel fuel. Partly for easier starting and partly for money saving reasons. I know a chap who claims to sometimes run his old diesel Land Rover on 100% heating kerosine mixed with a little two stroke oil. If true, the engine seems to still be running as well as any other Land Rover of that vintage.

Alan Taylor

> On 19 Nov 2021, at 14:50, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?An ex BBC colleague who I also worked with on The Bill, ran his basic
> diesel car (before they had electronic control) on old cooking oil. IIRC
> his son worked for a large organisation, and it suited both them and him
> to have free disposal of the old. He used to clean it using a home made
> filter system in his garden, then straight into the tank. Many of you will
> know him, but I won't name him in case it wasn't 100% legal. Car did many
> many miles with no problems from the fuel.     
> 
> 
> In article <8AD8652D-CD18-487B-A438-FF2CA183F612 at me.com>,
>   Alasdair Lawrance <alawrance1 at me.com> wrote:
>> 'Red' diesel, which these days is just white diesel coloured, is due to
>> be replaced in narrowboats next year, and some people are already
>> ripping out perfectly serviceable diesel engines in anticipation, but
>> with no real network of charging facilities in place that seems risky.  
>> Hydrolised vegetable oil is being tried and said to have good results,
>> but I will wait and see.
> 
> -- 
>          Dave                                      London UK
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Fri Nov 19 14:28:41 2021
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 20:28:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] EQ AGAIN
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981F3EA7971F8659C6DCC25A79B9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <2c22be12-2673-2261-4c75-db8b4bdc4367@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<61961ebc.1c69fb81.62fff.cb8a@mx.google.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981F3EA7971F8659C6DCC25A79B9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <a2369efd-8111-6d7d-0614-db2273ffa8d2@howell61.f9.co.uk>


On 18/11/2021 10:41, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> This has been discussed a number of times on IPS forums. Complain to 
> the BBC, not here.


Nick,

It's just reassuring to have one's opinions confirmed (and occasionally 
challenged) I didn't expect

any action on the part of the BBC to whom I _have_ complained, I also 
corrected my error with the presenter's name.


Hibou.
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Nov 20 05:55:05 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 11:55:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] E10 petrol
In-Reply-To: <467253B9-7BF5-4A35-AA6C-264E3A44C9C5@me.com>
References: <598ddda5c8davesound@btinternet.com>
	<467253B9-7BF5-4A35-AA6C-264E3A44C9C5@me.com>
Message-ID: <bd56ed75-f344-4496-d392-286d9209b7a7@chriswoolf.co.uk>

And the converse applies.

I know one or two people who run their home heating on Jet A1, that 
originates from the so-called fuel sample tank and aircraft tank 
drainings of certain establishments - amazing the volumes those source 
seem able to supply;}

Chris Woolf


On 19/11/2021 15:42, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> In rural areas it?s not unknown for people to use red diesel ( much lower tax rate ) in road-going vehicles, even though it?s illegal to do so.
>
> In cold weather people sometimes mix heating oil ( kerosine ) with diesel fuel. Partly for easier starting and partly for money saving reasons. I know a chap who claims to sometimes run his old diesel Land Rover on 100% heating kerosine mixed with a little two stroke oil. If true, the engine seems to still be running as well as any other Land Rover of that vintage.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>> On 19 Nov 2021, at 14:50, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?An ex BBC colleague who I also worked with on The Bill, ran his basic
>> diesel car (before they had electronic control) on old cooking oil. IIRC
>> his son worked for a large organisation, and it suited both them and him
>> to have free disposal of the old. He used to clean it using a home made
>> filter system in his garden, then straight into the tank. Many of you will
>> know him, but I won't name him in case it wasn't 100% legal. Car did many
>> many miles with no problems from the fuel.
>>
>>
>> In article <8AD8652D-CD18-487B-A438-FF2CA183F612 at me.com>,
>>    Alasdair Lawrance <alawrance1 at me.com> wrote:
>>> 'Red' diesel, which these days is just white diesel coloured, is due to
>>> be replaced in narrowboats next year, and some people are already
>>> ripping out perfectly serviceable diesel engines in anticipation, but
>>> with no real network of charging facilities in place that seems risky.
>>> Hydrolised vegetable oil is being tried and said to have good results,
>>> but I will wait and see.
>> -- 
>>           Dave                                      London UK
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From waresound at msn.com  Sun Nov 21 13:57:41 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2021 19:57:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] IPad mini 5 up for grabs
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981F96562E4B5F2F38C058DA79E9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

A few days ago an impatient shopper barged past me as I came out of the opticians, and sent my iPad crashing to the floor. She was abusive, rude and unapologetic, and as I was right outside an iRepair shop I walked in. Helpful guy said he could fix it for ?155.00. I deleted all content and left it with him. Got it home, restored from backup, only to find it rather low contrast and wishy-washy colour. Went back and after a load of bullshit he admitted, no it?s not an official Apple replacement screen, that would cost a lot more. I?d been conned.
So: being me, I sulked for a while, then went online and bought a New iPad mini 6!
And now, I?m wondering if anyone has a use for my old one.
I say old, but it?s not, it?s an iPad mini 5 with 64 GB and Cellnet data SIM card slot.
All working absolutely as it should, in good condition APART from the display. No obvious physical damage as it was in a good protective flip-case. Would anyone have a use for it at a give-away price of ?155.00 just to cover the repair cost? I haven?t looked into the cost of a further repair with genuine Apple LCD, but at ?155.00 it is perfectly usable as it is if anyone wants it. In original box with charger etc. 
Email me if that might be you, your child, or grandchild!
Cheers,
Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen.

From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Fri Nov 26 08:09:28 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 14:09:28 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Ofcom annual review of the BBC
Message-ID: <7079B6BEFC0D4BA8B936AE57D2D412B3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

In 2010, the BBC broadcast 305 hours of original shows about the arts. By 2020, that figure had fallen to 154 hours, according to new figures published by Ofcom.

History programming dropped by more than a quarter, from 814 hours to 595. Comedy saw an even greater decline, from 225 hours in 2010 to 102 hours last year. Music programmes fell most sharply, from 239 hours to 93 hours. And in 2020, there were only 437 hours of original children?s shows, down from 705 hours in 2010.

In these genres - all categorised by Ofcom as ?at risk? - 89 per cent of programmes shown on the BBC?s television channels were repeats.

Ofcom warned that this percentage could increase even further following the corporation?s move to turn BBC Four into a repeats channel.

I find this a sad comment on the way our society?s attitudes have changed. Coupled with recent news that the Royals are so miffed over the recent Princes and the Press documentary that the Cambridge?s carol concert has been offered to ITV rather than the Beeb, it seems things are in a downward spiral I see little chance of recovery from. Am I being too gloomy?

Dave Newbitt.
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 08:43:15 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 14:43:15 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW:
Message-ID: <60223a5c-e8d7-5811-af2b-c71aa6b6ce76@gmail.com>

Subject:
Any interest?
From:
Alec Bray <alec.bray at yahoo.com>
Date:
26/11/2021, 14:01

To:
TechOps Forum <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>


Hi,

Just in case (!) anyone here may be interested ... tidying up today, 
this Empty EMI 2" Tape Spool Box, released from years of storing plastic 
Meccano, is now available.

empty box


Not sure of its original provenance, it certainly dates from before May 
1968 and is in very good condition.? Just right for storing one of those 
2" Quad reels you acquired over the years...

Best regards,

Alec

-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray at yahoo.com

mobile:  07789 561 346
home:    0118 981 7502
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 26 08:52:37 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 14:52:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] As it's gone a bit quiet....
Message-ID: <f2c93d6e-9628-5abc-6afe-0d9026552549@gmail.com>

I thought you might make some noise.....

I've been using this -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh-FKchjaPE

- for a while now, to set up my lecturing/speeching gear.? It gives me a 
feel for how the rest of the stuff will sound, whilst being pleasantly 
presentable for those who might be there already. Much better than tone. 
Play it loud on decent gear.

Now I've just found this video, a behind the scenes. I'm showing it to 
people at my U3A and others, as it shows how things are done these days 
- a whole different world, and very easy to duplicate for little cost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPoH_6daQOE

B
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Nov 26 11:42:21 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 17:42:21 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Ofcom annual review of the BBC
In-Reply-To: <7079B6BEFC0D4BA8B936AE57D2D412B3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <7079B6BEFC0D4BA8B936AE57D2D412B3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <61a11c7e.1c69fb81.e42a1.92a0@mx.google.com>

I?m particularly annoyed that one has to subscribe to BritBox to watch programmes that were previously ?free? (apart from the licence fee).
And while artistes might get repeat fees, us poor technicians get nowt.
There was one occasion, for a programme on how TV was made and a camera was put in the Sound Control to show us working away. We had to be paid an appearance fee, think it was 10 guineas, but as it was in BBC time, they docked us ?3!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: David Newbitt via Tech1
Sent: 26 November 2021 14:09
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
Subject: [Tech1] Ofcom annual review of the BBC

Ofcom warned that this percentage could increase even further following the corporation?s move to turn BBC Four into a repeats channel.
I find this a sad comment on the way our society?s attitudes have changed. Coupled with recent news that the Royals are so miffed over the recent Princes and the Press documentary that the Cambridge?s carol concert has been offered to ITV rather than the Beeb, it seems things are in a downward spiral I see little chance of recovery from. Am I being too gloomy?
Dave Newbitt.



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From waresound at msn.com  Sat Nov 27 05:49:32 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 11:49:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Ofcom annual review of the BBC
In-Reply-To: <61a11c7e.1c69fb81.e42a1.92a0@mx.google.com>
References: <61a11c7e.1c69fb81.e42a1.92a0@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB19819548A2AE3B8F96E0955AA7649@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I know nothing about Britbox, but think about it - presumably if they?ve bought the rights to show programmes, they need to see that money back (as many times over as they can).
No likey, don?t subscribe.
Actors? repeat fees are either in their contract for a given production, or they are not. Any argument for ?poor technicians? getting repeat fees is a non-starter. If it were not so, overall production costs would over time escalate exponentially, and so would the licence fee.
Take comfort from the fact that you were in permanent employment and the actors weren?t (and would have been paying Agents? fees, which you didn?t).
N.
Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088

On 26 Nov 2021, at 17:43, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
I?m particularly annoyed that one has to subscribe to BritBox to watch programmes that were previously ?free? (apart from the licence fee).
And while artistes might get repeat fees, us poor technicians get nowt.
There was one occasion, for a programme on how TV was made and a camera was put in the Sound Control to show us working away. We had to be paid an appearance fee, think it was 10 guineas, but as it was in BBC time, they docked us ?3!
Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
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From relong at btinternet.com  Sat Nov 27 06:26:47 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 12:26:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Ofcom annual review of the BBC
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB19819548A2AE3B8F96E0955AA7649@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <61a11c7e.1c69fb81.e42a1.92a0@mx.google.com>
	<PAXP191MB19819548A2AE3B8F96E0955AA7649@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <56DA74D1-00D8-4DE4-9195-7AEE685976CF@btinternet.com>

BBC4 is BritBox.
So why bother ?
Currently Dinner Ladies 
One Foot in the Grave.
They are showing many long winded American documentaries but no classic Horizons.
Clueless as ever.
At least they get the aspect ratio right.
Recent 2 parter on Disney was great


> On 27 Nov 2021, at 11:49, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I know nothing about Britbox, but think about it - presumably if they?ve bought the rights to show programmes, they need to see that money back (as many times over as they can). 
> No likey, don?t subscribe.
> Actors? repeat fees are either in their contract for a given production, or they are not. Any argument for ?poor technicians? getting repeat fees is a non-starter. If it were not so, overall production costs would over time escalate exponentially, and so would the licence fee. 
> Take comfort from the fact that you were in permanent employment and the actors weren?t (and would have been paying Agents? fees, which you didn?t).
> N.
> Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088
> 
>> On 26 Nov 2021, at 17:43, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> I?m particularly annoyed that one has to subscribe to BritBox to watch programmes that were previously ?free? (apart from the licence fee).
>> And while artistes might get repeat fees, us poor technicians get nowt.
>> There was one occasion, for a programme on how TV was made and a camera was put in the Sound Control to show us working away. We had to be paid an appearance fee, think it was 10 guineas, but as it was in BBC time, they docked us ?3!
>> Pat
>>  
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Nov 27 06:20:59 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 12:20:59 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Ofcom annual review of the BBC
In-Reply-To: <61a11c7e.1c69fb81.e42a1.92a0@mx.google.com>
References: <7079B6BEFC0D4BA8B936AE57D2D412B3@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<61a11c7e.1c69fb81.e42a1.92a0@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5991eef453davesound@btinternet.com>

Does Britbox show much you can't already get for free? Thought its virtue
was they were advert free, hence the subscription.   

In article <61a11c7e.1c69fb81.e42a1.92a0 at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I?m particularly annoyed that one has to subscribe to BritBox to watch
> programmes that were previously ?free? (apart from the licence fee). And
> while artistes might get repeat fees, us poor technicians get nowt.
> There was one occasion, for a programme on how TV was made and a camera
> was put in the Sound Control to show us working away. We had to be paid
> an appearance fee, think it was 10 guineas, but as it was in BBC time,
> they docked us ?3! Pat

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From waresound at msn.com  Sat Nov 27 12:36:18 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 18:36:18 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] IPad mini 5 up for grabs
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981F96562E4B5F2F38C058DA79E9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAXP191MB1981F96562E4B5F2F38C058DA79E9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981A55229A99F1850295814A7649@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

IPad now donated to a good cause and will shortly have a new genuine Apple LCD.
Lesson learnt: if you want your mobile phone, tablet etc mended, don?t go into a Vape shop.
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088

> On 21 Nov 2021, at 19:57, Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com> wrote:
> 
> ?A few days ago an impatient shopper barged past me as I came out of the opticians, and sent my iPad crashing to the floor. She was abusive, rude and unapologetic, and as I was right outside an iRepair shop I walked in. Helpful guy said he could fix it for ?155.00. I deleted all content and left it with him. Got it home, restored from backup, only to find it rather low contrast and wishy-washy colour. Went back and after a load of bullshit he admitted, no it?s not an official Apple replacement screen, that would cost a lot more. I?d been conned.
> [etc.]
> Cheers,
> Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen.

From mibridge at mac.com  Sun Nov 28 13:57:26 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2021 19:57:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Suffering in silence?
Message-ID: <EC635BBA-76B8-4AD6-90AE-F3B0BA1BE572@mac.com>

Why are the singers on SCD so awful? I am regularly subjected to their caterwauling by a devotee of the show, and I can honestly say that almost none of their performances of previously successful songs would have made any progress in the charts if they had been the originals (in my opinion, of course)

Am I alone in my misery?

Mike G

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 28 14:41:04 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2021 20:41:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW:
Message-ID: <05908a00-1297-4315-029b-a44f9fccd658@gmail.com>

Subject:
VHS to DVD
From:
David Denness <david.denness at gmail.com>
Date:
28/11/2021, 17:43

To:
<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>


Can anyone recommend a VHS to DVD copy service?

Only want a couple done

I?m located in Richmond/Twickenham area

Many thanks

Dave D

David J Denness

daviddenness at ohbytheway.co.uk

07836 371108
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Nov 28 17:20:10 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2021 23:20:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW:
In-Reply-To: <05908a00-1297-4315-029b-a44f9fccd658@gmail.com>
References: <05908a00-1297-4315-029b-a44f9fccd658@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5CC11003-CA3A-4FE6-8CCD-DE371801B8F1@me.com>

Somebody recently made a similar request on the Banbury Facebook group and they were pointed to an independent company in town who fix computers.  The chaps there don?t advertise the service, but were happy to do it. 

It might be worth asking small computer repair companies in your area if they can assist.  If they can?t do it, they might know of a local company who could.

Alan Taylor


> On 28 Nov 2021, at 20:41, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Subject: VHS to DVD
> From: David Denness <david.denness at gmail.com>
> Date: 28/11/2021, 17:43
> To: <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> 
> Can anyone recommend a VHS to DVD copy service?
> 
> Only want a couple done
> 
> I?m located in Richmond/Twickenham area
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Dave D
> 
>  
> 
> David J Denness
> 
> daviddenness at ohbytheway.co.uk
> 
> 07836 371108
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From gary_critcher at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 29 08:19:36 2021
From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:19:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] spotted on Twitter....
References: <347394477.9503098.1638195576867.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <347394477.9503098.1638195576867@mail.yahoo.com>

? ?Lads, I spotted this record on Twitter yesterday, do? the names on the sleeve ring any bells?
All the best!
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From gary_critcher at yahoo.com  Mon Nov 29 08:20:44 2021
From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:20:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Pictures!
References: <303576135.9538713.1638195644515.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <303576135.9538713.1638195644515@mail.yahoo.com>

Obviously I should have attached the pictures before I hit 'send'!
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From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Nov 29 08:39:29 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 14:39:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pictures!
In-Reply-To: <303576135.9538713.1638195644515@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <303576135.9538713.1638195644515@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20C41748-4351-4D1D-9B3E-63FEBF89A0DD@me.com>

Don Sayer was one of those producers who was always making a wide variety of shows. I didn?t know he did this sort of thing too, but am not at all surprised.

I always looked forward to doing his shows as they were often quirky and fun to work on. My particular involvement with him covered ice skating, jazz, country music and a series where performers of a certain age reminisced about their life in show business.  As Spike Milligan put it, at least by agreeing to do this show I get some sort of influence over what?s in my obituary.

Alan Taylor

> On 29 Nov 2021, at 14:26, Gary Critcher via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Obviously I should have attached the pictures before I hit 'send'!
> <Screenshot_20211128-220823_Samsung Internet.jpg>
> <Screenshot_20211128-220834_Samsung Internet.jpg>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 29 09:31:38 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 15:31:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW;
Message-ID: <f519fb93-3b78-43ff-f4aa-de149985a3c8@gmail.com>

Subject:
Re: [Tech1] Suffering in silence?
From:
Nick Ware <npware at outlook.com>
Date:
29/11/2021, 11:59

To:
"tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>


?
?
?I do sometimes wonder whether, like most session musicians, they?re sight-reading, inadequately rehearsed, if at all. And I?m curious to know what the dancers have been rehearsing to all week if it?s not what they?re going to hear on the night.
Pity, because in all other respects, the technical and production standards are very impressive.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088

> On 28 Nov 2021, at 19:58, Mike Giles via Tech1<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>  wrote:
> ?Why are the singers on SCD so awful? I am regularly subjected to their caterwauling by a devotee of the show, and I can honestly say that almost none of their performances of previously successful songs would have made any progress in the charts if they had been the originals (in my opinion, of course)
>
> Am I alone in my misery?
>
> Mike G
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Nov 29 10:07:00 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 16:07:00 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW;
In-Reply-To: <f519fb93-3b78-43ff-f4aa-de149985a3c8@gmail.com>
References: <f519fb93-3b78-43ff-f4aa-de149985a3c8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD35596D-1273-4BF4-920C-DAD7CE30047B@me.com>

I don?t know what they actually rehearse to, but the important thing for a dancer is the tempo and the timing.  I would imagine that couples could rehearse perfectly well to a provisional recording created via synthesised instruments and guide vocals, so long as the final arrangement has exactly the same tempo and has a similar arrangement. 

Does anybody know what they really do use to rehearse?

Anybody who has played grams for competitive ice skaters will know how critical the tempo is.  I assume it?s the same for dancers. I did a show at Richmond ice rink  ( See adjacent thread and Don Sayer ). One ice dancer complained that his music was replayed about 1 second too slow over his three minute routine. We timed it with a stopwatch at the time and the gram op assumed that about a ?% error was close enough.  The skater realised part way through that it was too slow because he knew that he should be working to his physical limits when the timing was right, but this was a touch too easy.  When we adjusted the varispeed and got it dead right in the rehearsal, he gave a small hand signal during a slow moment early in the routine. His trainer spotted the signal and told us that the speed was on the dot.  When the routine finished the stopwatch revealed that it was exactly as requested.

On that same show, there was an amusing problem.  Richmond ice rink is right by the river.  After rehearsals, the crew adjourned to a nearby riverside pub for refreshment while the audience were brought in.  While we were in the pub, an unusually high tide occurred and when it was time to return, we discovered that we were stranded. We had to leave by a different door and walk a long way around in order to return to the ice rink.

Alan Taylor

> On 29 Nov 2021, at 15:35, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Suffering in silence?
> From: Nick Ware <npware at outlook.com>
> Date: 29/11/2021, 11:59
> To: "tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> 
> ?
> ?
> ?I do sometimes wonder whether, like most session musicians, they?re sight-reading, inadequately rehearsed, if at all. And I?m curious to know what the dancers have been rehearsing to all week if it?s not what they?re going to hear on the night.
> Pity, because in all other respects, the technical and production standards are very impressive.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088
> 
>> On 28 Nov 2021, at 19:58, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> ?Why are the singers on SCD so awful? I am regularly subjected to their caterwauling by a devotee of the show, and I can honestly say that almost none of their performances of previously successful songs would have made any progress in the charts if they had been the originals (in my opinion, of course)
>> 
>> Am I alone in my misery?
>> 
>> Mike G
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov 29 09:56:50 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 15:56:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] FW:
In-Reply-To: <05908a00-1297-4315-029b-a44f9fccd658@gmail.com>
References: <05908a00-1297-4315-029b-a44f9fccd658@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <59930a6347davesound@btinternet.com>

I have a working S-VHS with Hi-Fi sound. Which can play most - except for
525 VHS. And a DVD burner on the computer.

And have a USB adaptor to capture from the VHS.

I'm in Balham so not that far from Richmond if you fancy overseeing the
operation yourself. I'd normally rip to HD first, then make the DVD.  



In article <05908a00-1297-4315-029b-a44f9fccd658 at gmail.com>,
   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Subject:
> VHS to DVD
> From:
> David Denness <david.denness at gmail.com>
> Date:
> 28/11/2021, 17:43

> To:
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>


> Can anyone recommend a VHS to DVD copy service?

> Only want a couple done

> I?m located in Richmond/Twickenham area

> Many thanks

> Dave D

> David J Denness

> daviddenness at ohbytheway.co.uk

> 07836 371108

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From relong at btinternet.com  Mon Nov 29 12:25:16 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 18:25:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW;
In-Reply-To: <f519fb93-3b78-43ff-f4aa-de149985a3c8@gmail.com>
References: <f519fb93-3b78-43ff-f4aa-de149985a3c8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F3A9F197-59C7-4FC3-84E7-0CB69DD68782@btinternet.com>

Universally   Awful.
However music on tv always sounds worse than my library.
Is the Codec duff ?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 29 Nov 2021, at 15:32, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Suffering in silence?
> From: Nick Ware <npware at outlook.com>
> Date: 29/11/2021, 11:59
> To: "tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> 
> ?
> ?
> ?I do sometimes wonder whether, like most session musicians, they?re sight-reading, inadequately rehearsed, if at all. And I?m curious to know what the dancers have been rehearsing to all week if it?s not what they?re going to hear on the night.
> Pity, because in all other respects, the technical and production standards are very impressive.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088
> 
>> On 28 Nov 2021, at 19:58, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> ?Why are the singers on SCD so awful? I am regularly subjected to their caterwauling by a devotee of the show, and I can honestly say that almost none of their performances of previously successful songs would have made any progress in the charts if they had been the originals (in my opinion, of course)
>> 
>> Am I alone in my misery?
>> 
>> Mike G
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov 29 12:50:28 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 18:50:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW;
In-Reply-To: <F3A9F197-59C7-4FC3-84E7-0CB69DD68782@btinternet.com>
References: <f519fb93-3b78-43ff-f4aa-de149985a3c8@gmail.com>
	<F3A9F197-59C7-4FC3-84E7-0CB69DD68782@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <164157cd-28e0-134b-ebec-c1231eb3bb20@btinternet.com>

Have you tried listening to radio via FreeView?? That would show if it 
were your TV etc at fault.

On 29/11/2021 18:25, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
> Universally ? Awful.
> However music on tv always sounds worse than my library.
> Is the Codec duff ?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 29 Nov 2021, at 15:32, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Subject:
>> Re: [Tech1] Suffering in silence?
>> From:
>> Nick Ware <npware at outlook.com>
>> Date:
>> 29/11/2021, 11:59
>>
>> To:
>> "tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>
>>
>> ?
>> ?
>> ?I do sometimes wonder whether, like most session musicians, they?re sight-reading, inadequately rehearsed, if at all. And I?m curious to know what the dancers have been rehearsing to all week if it?s not what they?re going to hear on the night.
>> Pity, because in all other respects, the technical and production standards are very impressive.
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>> Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088
>>
>>> On 28 Nov 2021, at 19:58, Mike Giles via Tech1<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>  wrote:
>>> ?Why are the singers on SCD so awful? I am regularly subjected to their caterwauling by a devotee of the show, and I can honestly say that almost none of their performances of previously successful songs would have made any progress in the charts if they had been the originals (in my opinion, of course)
>>>
>>> Am I alone in my misery?
>>>
>>> Mike G
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From waresound at msn.com  Mon Nov 29 12:56:35 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 18:56:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW;
In-Reply-To: <F3A9F197-59C7-4FC3-84E7-0CB69DD68782@btinternet.com>
References: <f519fb93-3b78-43ff-f4aa-de149985a3c8@gmail.com>
	<F3A9F197-59C7-4FC3-84E7-0CB69DD68782@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981E2F0D983CF57064536A4A7669@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Give us an example of something on TV that you think sounds good, or less worse.
N.
Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088

On 29 Nov 2021, at 18:25, Roger Long via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? Universally   Awful.
However music on tv always sounds worse than my library.
Is the Codec duff ?

Sent from my iPhone

On 29 Nov 2021, at 15:32, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Subject:
Re: [Tech1] Suffering in silence?
From:
Nick Ware <npware at outlook.com><mailto:npware at outlook.com>
Date:
29/11/2021, 11:59
To:
"tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk"<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk><mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>


?
?
?I do sometimes wonder whether, like most session musicians, they?re sight-reading, inadequately rehearsed, if at all. And I?m curious to know what the dancers have been rehearsing to all week if it?s not what they?re going to hear on the night.
Pity, because in all other respects, the technical and production standards are very impressive.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088



On 28 Nov 2021, at 19:58, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk><mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
?Why are the singers on SCD so awful? I am regularly subjected to their caterwauling by a devotee of the show, and I can honestly say that almost none of their performances of previously successful songs would have made any progress in the charts if they had been the originals (in my opinion, of course)

Am I alone in my misery?

Mike G
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From tuckergarth at me.com  Mon Nov 29 15:16:08 2021
From: tuckergarth at me.com (Garth Tucker)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 21:16:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Defunct Skating Rink
Message-ID: <993B5AA2-34D6-4B4D-A57B-D53E1EB3635B@me.com>

Allan,

It wasn?t The White Cross was it?

Garth

From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Nov 29 16:03:24 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 22:03:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Defunct Skating Rink
In-Reply-To: <993B5AA2-34D6-4B4D-A57B-D53E1EB3635B@me.com>
References: <993B5AA2-34D6-4B4D-A57B-D53E1EB3635B@me.com>
Message-ID: <6F2F5ECD-9E50-4BF0-BFC7-39050345AEBC@me.com>

I tried looking on a map, satellite views and street views but can?t find the ice rink where I recall it being. I can see a new development near Denton road and suspect that the ice rink must have been demolished and turned into ?executive residences?.

Even if that?s the correct location, I can?t spot the pub near there looking exactly as I remember it.  If I had to put a name to it I would have guessed ?White Hart?, so the White Cross looks highly likely.  It certainly looks right architecturally and is in roughly the correct location.  

One particular feature I remember back then ( early 1980s ), was that between the pub and river was a roughly circular brick raised bed with a tree in the middle.  There was a bench in front of it. A woman had been sat on the bench as the water rose.  She initially pulled up her feet and eventually climbed into the raised bed as the water lapped around the bench.  It ended up looking rather like one of those cartoon desert islands with just a single palm tree in the middle of the sand with the castaway stood on it.  She was eventually rescued by a guy who turned up in a kayak, which involved a very precarious transfer from her desert island onto the wobbly kayak, but it was accomplished without incident, much to the disappointment of some of the people in the pub. I can?t see any indication of that little desert island these days, but it?s the sort of thing that might have been removed since then.

If anybody knew the White Cross forty years ago, they might know if the desert island used to be there, in which case that would confirm it for certain, but I can?t see another place that looks more likely.

Alan Taylor

> On 29 Nov 2021, at 21:16, Garth Tucker via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?Allan,
> 
> It wasn?t The White Cross was it?
> 
> Garth
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From mibridge at mac.com  Mon Nov 29 16:53:08 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (M E GILES)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 22:53:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Suffering in silence?
In-Reply-To: <164157cd-28e0-134b-ebec-c1231eb3bb20@btinternet.com>
References: <f519fb93-3b78-43ff-f4aa-de149985a3c8@gmail.com>
	<F3A9F197-59C7-4FC3-84E7-0CB69DD68782@btinternet.com>
	<164157cd-28e0-134b-ebec-c1231eb3bb20@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <0859DB45-DE6F-4D5B-A7DF-FCDF96569DA2@mac.com>

It?s certainly not our televisions or the associated sound-bars ~ whilst as a former SS I cringe to admit that we don?t have "ultra high quality sound monitoring" (and not a meter in sight), but they'e perfectly OK and properly performed material sounds fine. I hasten to add that there is no criticism of the sound staff who make an excellent job of the band mix and succeed in making everyone intelligible ~ it?s the vocal delivery that gets me ~ perhaps I would be tempted to bury the singers in the mix! I believe that?s where the Travelling Wilburys got their handle ~ if something didn?t go quite right ?We?ll bury that in the mix?! Other theories are available.

Mike G


> On 29 Nov 2021, at 18:50, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Have you tried listening to radio via FreeView?  That would show if it were your TV etc at fault.
> 
> On 29/11/2021 18:25, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>> Universally   Awful.
>> However music on tv always sounds worse than my library.
>> Is the Codec duff ?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 29 Nov 2021, at 15:32, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Suffering in silence?
>>> From: Nick Ware <npware at outlook.com> <mailto:npware at outlook.com>
>>> Date: 29/11/2021, 11:59
>>> To: "tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> ?
>>> ?
>>> ?I do sometimes wonder whether, like most session musicians, they?re sight-reading, inadequately rehearsed, if at all. And I?m curious to know what the dancers have been rehearsing to all week if it?s not what they?re going to hear on the night.
>>> Pity, because in all other respects, the technical and production standards are very impressive.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nick.
>>> Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088
>>> 
>>>> On 28 Nov 2021, at 19:58, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> ?Why are the singers on SCD so awful? I am regularly subjected to their caterwauling by a devotee of the show, and I can honestly say that almost none of their performances of previously successful songs would have made any progress in the charts if they had been the originals (in my opinion, of course)
>>>> 
>>>> Am I alone in my misery?
>>>> 
>>>> Mike G
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From tuckergarth at me.com  Tue Nov 30 06:49:54 2021
From: tuckergarth at me.com (Garth Tucker)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 12:49:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Ice Rink
Message-ID: <BFF763D0-D322-4258-A92E-34EF458262D7@me.com>

Hi Alan,

I don?t usually reminisce on this site but I worked for British Telecommunications Research Ltd at Taplow Court near Maidenhead (1958 - 1962) before coming to the BBC. We organised a monthly trip to the Richmond Ice Rink. It was obvious the refrigeration was turned off 20 minutes before closing time. Intent on getting our money?s worth we stayed to the bitter end, that meant sliding through pools of water which invariably brought some of us down, the result then being a 25 mile trip back home in very soggy clothing.

The Rink was closed in 1992 and, yes, demolished to be replaced by very posh flats. The promised replacement never happened.

There is an island opposite The White Cross, if that is where you were, to escape the flood would have meant going up Water Lane into the centre of Richmond, climbing the hill towards the Odeon and then back down to go across the bridge, built 1777.

Garth

From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Nov 30 07:24:25 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 13:24:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Ice Rink
In-Reply-To: <BFF763D0-D322-4258-A92E-34EF458262D7@me.com>
References: <BFF763D0-D322-4258-A92E-34EF458262D7@me.com>
Message-ID: <CF80A568-CD11-475C-A48C-82B05FC0AC7B@me.com>

Thanks Garth,

That very neatly ties up all the loose ends regarding the vanishing ice rink, the White House pub and the detour needed to get back to site.  I remember that John Livingstone was the Engineering Manager on that show and he was distinctly unimpressed that the entire crew came back late with the same absurd excuse of being stranded in a pub.

Shows in Ice rinks seem to invite silly problems.  One of my favourites was an Ice Cabaret show where between the ice dancing elements, other performers would do their act on wooden boards placed on the ice.  One particular act needed an effects microphone in front of them on the ice. Joe Lyons ( much loved veteran sound assistant ) decided that a 4035 could be placed on a little integrated stand we called an inky dink.  I?ve found a picture of something vaguely similar but an inky dink stand was much more substantial than the one pictured and of course the microphone was an STC4035, which is a variant of the one in the picture.
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Once the act was over, Joe could simply tug on the cable and it should neatly slide over to him at the ringside and it worked exactly like that in rehearsal.  Unfortunately ( funny how often that word crops up ), there were several retakes of that act and during that time, the pressure of a heavy microphone on a heavy stand caused the ice to melt locally.  Worse that that, the bottom of the stand was covered in felt which froze solid to the ice.  When Joe tugged the cable it went as tight as a bow string, but didn?t move.  He had no option other than to walk over the ice to pull the mic free, but it was stuck fast.  I?m not 100% certain who pulled it free, but either Joe or one of the riggers pulled it very hard indeed and freed it.  Well to be precise, the mic and stand became free but a neat circle of felt got unglued from the mic stand and was now stuck to the ice instead.

There?s no way that skaters can work with something like that on the ice, so staff from the rink had to chisel the felt off the ice, spray water over the damage and wait for it to freeze before skating could resume.

Alan Taylor


> On 30 Nov 2021, at 12:50, Garth Tucker via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi Alan,
> 
> I don?t usually reminisce on this site but I worked for British Telecommunications Research Ltd at Taplow Court near Maidenhead (1958 - 1962) before coming to the BBC. We organised a monthly trip to the Richmond Ice Rink. It was obvious the refrigeration was turned off 20 minutes before closing time. Intent on getting our money?s worth we stayed to the bitter end, that meant sliding through pools of water which invariably brought some of us down, the result then being a 25 mile trip back home in very soggy clothing.
> 
> The Rink was closed in 1992 and, yes, demolished to be replaced by very posh flats. The promised replacement never happened.
> 
> There is an island opposite The White Cross, if that is where you were, to escape the flood would have meant going up Water Lane into the centre of Richmond, climbing the hill towards the Odeon and then back down to go across the bridge, built 1777.
> 
> Garth
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Nov 30 07:32:54 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 13:32:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Suffering in silence?
In-Reply-To: <0859DB45-DE6F-4D5B-A7DF-FCDF96569DA2@mac.com>
References: <f519fb93-3b78-43ff-f4aa-de149985a3c8@gmail.com>
	<F3A9F197-59C7-4FC3-84E7-0CB69DD68782@btinternet.com>
	<164157cd-28e0-134b-ebec-c1231eb3bb20@btinternet.com>
	<0859DB45-DE6F-4D5B-A7DF-FCDF96569DA2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <61a62806.1c69fb81.5f090.0c46@mx.google.com>

There?s one contestant who is not bothered by the ?caterwauling? ? so your message title is somewhat apt!
Rose Ayling-Ellis is profoundly deaf, from birth, and explains in RT 4-10 Dec how she manages to dance, being unable to hear the music.
Featured on the front cover, she?s a strikingly pretty girl! 
For a splendid musical treat, there?s a repeat of John Wilson?s Orchestra on Broadway ? Sun Dec 5th BBC4 20:30.
There was also a re-run of Kiss Me Kate from his Prom appearance in 2014!
Great sound balance ? was it Andy? Well up to and maybe surpassing Len and Hugh?
I don?t use the TV speakers ? in the bedroom, a small Bose Sound Link ? this is a bit over bassy, though. (No, not Shirley!)
In the sitting room, audio from a DVD recorder into Quad amps and superb BNS speakers, bought from Nick, but as I live in a flat,
cannot let them rip!
Recently bought a Bose Sound bar, which doesn?t sound too bad ? intended to provide the audio for video film shows put on for friends.
Up to now, have used my friend?s hi-fi, a decent Sony amp and B & O speakers, which in spite of being smallish, are remarkably good.
(pic is of the set-up in their extended dining room ? I talked them into letting me create a cinema, and it went down very well with about 15-20 folks, bringing bottles of wine and beer).
The screen is 6ft but I managed to squeeze in a 9ft one for ?South Pacific? and a Cinerama movie.
Best
Pat



Sent from Mail for Windows

From: M E GILES via Tech1
Sent: 29 November 2021 22:53
To: Tech Ops
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Suffering in silence?

It?s certainly not our televisions or the associated sound-bars ~ whilst as a former SS I cringe to admit that we don?t have "ultra high quality sound monitoring" (and not a meter in sight), but they'e perfectly OK and properly performed material sounds fine. I hasten to add that there is no criticism of the sound staff who make an excellent job of the band mix and succeed in making everyone intelligible ~ it?s the vocal delivery that gets me ~ perhaps I would be tempted to bury the singers in the mix! I believe that?s where the Travelling Wilburys got their handle ~ if something didn?t go quite right ?We?ll bury that in the mix?! Other theories are available.

Mike G



On 29 Nov 2021, at 18:50, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

Have you tried listening to radio via FreeView?? That would show if it were your TV etc at fault.
On 29/11/2021 18:25, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
Universally ? Awful. 
However music on tv always sounds worse than my library.
Is the Codec duff ?
Sent from my iPhone


On 29 Nov 2021, at 15:32, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
? 
Subject: 
Re: [Tech1] Suffering in silence?
From: 
Nick Ware <npware at outlook.com>
Date: 
29/11/2021, 11:59
To: 
"tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
?
?
?I do sometimes wonder whether, like most session musicians, they?re sight-reading, inadequately rehearsed, if at all. And I?m curious to know what the dancers have been rehearsing to all week if it?s not what they?re going to hear on the night.
Pity, because in all other respects, the technical and production standards are very impressive.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088

On 28 Nov 2021, at 19:58, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
?Why are the singers on SCD so awful? I am regularly subjected to their caterwauling by a devotee of the show, and I can honestly say that almost none of their performances of previously successful songs would have made any progress in the charts if they had been the originals (in my opinion, of course)

Am I alone in my misery?

Mike G
-- 
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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-- 
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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


-- 
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-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 09:56:23 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 15:56:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW (again!)
Message-ID: <6bfd4e22-4b2d-35b8-6a26-7ae167a9e8c9@gmail.com>

RE: [Tech1] Ice Rink.eml

Subject:
RE: [Tech1] Ice Rink
From:
<geoffreyhawkes at btinternet.com>
Date:
30/11/2021, 14:22

To:
"'Garth Tucker'" <tuckergarth at me.com>
CC:
<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>


Hi Garth,
Was that the Queens ice rink in Richmond that you were talking about? If so, that's where I went skating when I was in the Youth Club at church in the early sixties but only have vague memories of it now. I learnt to roller skate when I was a child which made it easier to adapt to ice skating but needed the ankle braces as skating on a single blade was more difficult than four wheels. My main fear was of falling over on the ice and having someone run over my fingers while I was down there, so I always wore gloves, but it was great fun even so,
Geoff

-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1<tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk>  On Behalf Of Garth Tucker via Tech1
Sent: 30 November 2021 12:50
To:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Ice Rink

Hi Alan,

I don?t usually reminisce on this site but I worked for British Telecommunications Research Ltd at Taplow Court near Maidenhead (1958 - 1962) before coming to the BBC. We organised a monthly trip to the Richmond Ice Rink. It was obvious the refrigeration was turned off 20 minutes before closing time. Intent on getting our money?s worth we stayed to the bitter end, that meant sliding through pools of water which invariably brought some of us down, the result then being a 25 mile trip back home in very soggy clothing.

The Rink was closed in 1992 and, yes, demolished to be replaced by very posh flats. The promised replacement never happened.

There is an island opposite The White Cross, if that is where you were, to escape the flood would have meant going up Water Lane into the centre of Richmond, climbing the hill towards the Odeon and then back down to go across the bridge, built 1777.

Garth
-- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 09:58:48 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 15:58:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Admin
Message-ID: <76c806f0-1297-a4d4-b2f1-b24fc1e29c0e@gmail.com>

I seem to be suddenly having to forward messages that people have 
originated from the wrong email address. ? If the address isn't on the 
list it bounces, and sends it to me.

I'm very happy to add extra addresses or whatever, but reposting stuff 
is boring

B
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 30 10:58:57 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 16:58:57 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Ice Rink
In-Reply-To: <BFF763D0-D322-4258-A92E-34EF458262D7@me.com>
References: <BFF763D0-D322-4258-A92E-34EF458262D7@me.com>
Message-ID: <000601d7e60b$91274e60$b375eb20$@gmail.com>

Hi Garth,
Was that the Queens ice rink in Richmond that you were talking about? If so, that's where I went skating when I was in the Youth Club at church in the early sixties but only have vague memories of it now. I learnt to roller skate when I was a child which made it easier to adapt to ice skating but needed the ankle braces as skating on a single blade was more difficult than four wheels. My main fear was of falling over on the ice and having someone run over my fingers while I was down there, so I always wore gloves, but it was great fun even so,
Geoff

-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Garth Tucker via Tech1
Sent: 30 November 2021 12:50
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Ice Rink

Hi Alan,

I don?t usually reminisce on this site but I worked for British Telecommunications Research Ltd at Taplow Court near Maidenhead (1958 - 1962) before coming to the BBC. We organised a monthly trip to the Richmond Ice Rink. It was obvious the refrigeration was turned off 20 minutes before closing time. Intent on getting our money?s worth we stayed to the bitter end, that meant sliding through pools of water which invariably brought some of us down, the result then being a 25 mile trip back home in very soggy clothing.

The Rink was closed in 1992 and, yes, demolished to be replaced by very posh flats. The promised replacement never happened.

There is an island opposite The White Cross, if that is where you were, to escape the flood would have meant going up Water Lane into the centre of Richmond, climbing the hill towards the Odeon and then back down to go across the bridge, built 1777.

Garth
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From waresound at msn.com  Tue Nov 30 12:10:29 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 18:10:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Ice Rink
In-Reply-To: <000601d7e60b$91274e60$b375eb20$@gmail.com>
References: <BFF763D0-D322-4258-A92E-34EF458262D7@me.com>
	<000601d7e60b$91274e60$b375eb20$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981B9863F12FC70515DBFD9A7679@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I used to go to Richmond Ice Rink a lot in my youth. I wasn?t particularly keen on skating, but it?s amazing what a young lad will do to try to impress a pretty girl, even if he doesn?t know what the potential rewards are! That was a long time ago, probably pre-BBC (or should that just be ?BC? ?!)
Wasn?t Queens in Streatham? I only went there as a go-karting filming location many years later.
Cheers,
N.

Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088

> On 30 Nov 2021, at 16:59, geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi Garth,
> Was that the Queens ice rink in Richmond that you were talking about? If so, that's where I went skating when I was in the Youth Club at church in the early sixties but only have vague memories of it now. I learnt to roller skate when I was a child which made it easier to adapt to ice skating but needed the ankle braces as skating on a single blade was more difficult than four wheels. My main fear was of falling over on the ice and having someone run over my fingers while I was down there, so I always wore gloves, but it was great fun even so,
> Geoff
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Garth Tucker via Tech1
> Sent: 30 November 2021 12:50
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: [Tech1] Ice Rink
> 
> Hi Alan,
> 
> I don?t usually reminisce on this site but I worked for British Telecommunications Research Ltd at Taplow Court near Maidenhead (1958 - 1962) before coming to the BBC. We organised a monthly trip to the Richmond Ice Rink. It was obvious the refrigeration was turned off 20 minutes before closing time. Intent on getting our money?s worth we stayed to the bitter end, that meant sliding through pools of water which invariably brought some of us down, the result then being a 25 mile trip back home in very soggy clothing.
> 
> The Rink was closed in 1992 and, yes, demolished to be replaced by very posh flats. The promised replacement never happened.
> 
> There is an island opposite The White Cross, if that is where you were, to escape the flood would have meant going up Water Lane into the centre of Richmond, climbing the hill towards the Odeon and then back down to go across the bridge, built 1777.
> 
> Garth
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From waresound at msn.com  Tue Nov 30 12:42:21 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 18:42:21 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Admin
In-Reply-To: <76c806f0-1297-a4d4-b2f1-b24fc1e29c0e@gmail.com>
References: <76c806f0-1297-a4d4-b2f1-b24fc1e29c0e@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB19815723C53AACBA05BD884EA7679@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Yes, sorry Bernie, I was one of those offenders earlier this week. I?ve been trying to rationalise eight email addresses down to two in the last few days in the aftermath of closing down a business domain name that I don?t see the need to keep on paying for. I think I?m there now, but with all the email address-related logins that one has to suffer these days, I think I?m finally there. It?s been a mammoth task preserving a lot of web-based history (and dumping a lot too).
Waresound at msn.com was my very first one, and is reserved for TechOps stuff now.
The hardest of the lot to update was the DVLA as I mentioned previously.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088

On 30 Nov 2021, at 15:59, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? I seem to be suddenly having to forward messages that people have originated from the wrong email address.   If the address isn't on the list it bounces, and sends it to me.

I'm very happy to add extra addresses or whatever, but reposting stuff is boring

B
--
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From nickrodger at mac.com  Tue Nov 30 12:42:24 2021
From: nickrodger at mac.com (Nick Rodger)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 18:42:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Ice Rink
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981B9863F12FC70515DBFD9A7679@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAXP191MB1981B9863F12FC70515DBFD9A7679@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <9CE7DC8F-E9DB-4154-BA13-F071B87275AE@mac.com>

Queen?s Ice Rink was, and I think still is, on Queensway, off Bayswater Road, London. 

Streatham Ice Rink was opposite Streatham Common, and was where, as 16/17 year old, I saw three blokes who had just got together to form a band before the term supergroup had really been coined: Cream.  

Nick Rodger 
Cameraman (Retired) 
07971 007578 
nickrodger at mac.com  

Sent from my iPhone. 
Please excuse typos and auto~corruptions!! 

Don?t blame me!! 
I voted Remain ??




On 30 Nov 2021, at 18:11, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?I used to go to Richmond Ice Rink a lot in my youth. I wasn?t particularly keen on skating, but it?s amazing what a young lad will do to try to impress a pretty girl, even if he doesn?t know what the potential rewards are! That was a long time ago, probably pre-BBC (or should that just be ?BC? ?!)
Wasn?t Queens in Streatham? I only went there as a go-karting filming location many years later.
Cheers,
N.

Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088

> On 30 Nov 2021, at 16:59, geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi Garth,
> Was that the Queens ice rink in Richmond that you were talking about? If so, that's where I went skating when I was in the Youth Club at church in the early sixties but only have vague memories of it now. I learnt to roller skate when I was a child which made it easier to adapt to ice skating but needed the ankle braces as skating on a single blade was more difficult than four wheels. My main fear was of falling over on the ice and having someone run over my fingers while I was down there, so I always wore gloves, but it was great fun even so,
> Geoff
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Garth Tucker via Tech1
> Sent: 30 November 2021 12:50
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: [Tech1] Ice Rink
> 
> Hi Alan,
> 
> I don?t usually reminisce on this site but I worked for British Telecommunications Research Ltd at Taplow Court near Maidenhead (1958 - 1962) before coming to the BBC. We organised a monthly trip to the Richmond Ice Rink. It was obvious the refrigeration was turned off 20 minutes before closing time. Intent on getting our money?s worth we stayed to the bitter end, that meant sliding through pools of water which invariably brought some of us down, the result then being a 25 mile trip back home in very soggy clothing.
> 
> The Rink was closed in 1992 and, yes, demolished to be replaced by very posh flats. The promised replacement never happened.
> 
> There is an island opposite The White Cross, if that is where you were, to escape the flood would have meant going up Water Lane into the centre of Richmond, climbing the hill towards the Odeon and then back down to go across the bridge, built 1777.
> 
> Garth
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
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> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-- 
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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Nov 30 12:44:50 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 18:44:50 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Ice Rink
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981B9863F12FC70515DBFD9A7679@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <BFF763D0-D322-4258-A92E-34EF458262D7@me.com>
	<000601d7e60b$91274e60$b375eb20$@gmail.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981B9863F12FC70515DBFD9A7679@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <61a67121.1c69fb81.85148.49a8@mx.google.com>

My story about Ice Rinks does not involve me on skates!
NBC Sports wanted to run a profile on Katarina Witt, so we were despatched to Halle in East Germany (before the wall came down). The NBC production team from NY decided only on the flight over that they wanted a glitzy number at the rink where she trained. There had only been a requirement for interviews there. Equipped only with a basic light kit, 1x 2k, 3x redheads, this wasn?t possible. Hire it, they said. ?This is East Germany, not available?. We didn?t have enough cable. ?Buy some? we found a 100m roll in what passed as an ironmonger shop, and snapped it up.
Nigel from Redapple worked a magic ? lighting the action rink area with the 2k, he stationed  the tree redheads with colour filters, and a star filter on the camera, facing back towards the camera, from the darkness beyond.
It looked great.

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: 30 November 2021 18:10
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Ice Rink

I used to go to Richmond Ice Rink a lot in my youth. I wasn?t particularly keen on skating, but it?s amazing what a young lad will do to try to impress a pretty girl, even if he doesn?t know what the potential rewards are! That was a long time ago, probably pre-BBC (or should that just be ?BC? ?!)
Wasn?t Queens in Streatham? I only went there as a go-karting filming location many years later.
Cheers,
N.

Nick Ware - From my iPad mini 6th Gen. 07802-246088

> On 30 Nov 2021, at 16:59, geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi Garth,
> Was that the Queens ice rink in Richmond that you were talking about? If so, that's where I went skating when I was in the Youth Club at church in the early sixties but only have vague memories of it now. I learnt to roller skate when I was a child which made it easier to adapt to ice skating but needed the ankle braces as skating on a single blade was more difficult than four wheels. My main fear was of falling over on the ice and having someone run over my fingers while I was down there, so I always wore gloves, but it was great fun even so,
> Geoff
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Garth Tucker via Tech1
> Sent: 30 November 2021 12:50
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: [Tech1] Ice Rink
> 
> Hi Alan,
> 
> I don?t usually reminisce on this site but I worked for British Telecommunications Research Ltd at Taplow Court near Maidenhead (1958 - 1962) before coming to the BBC. We organised a monthly trip to the Richmond Ice Rink. It was obvious the refrigeration was turned off 20 minutes before closing time. Intent on getting our money?s worth we stayed to the bitter end, that meant sliding through pools of water which invariably brought some of us down, the result then being a 25 mile trip back home in very soggy clothing.
> 
> The Rink was closed in 1992 and, yes, demolished to be replaced by very posh flats. The promised replacement never happened.
> 
> There is an island opposite The White Cross, if that is where you were, to escape the flood would have meant going up Water Lane into the centre of Richmond, climbing the hill towards the Odeon and then back down to go across the bridge, built 1777.
> 
> Garth
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From tuckergarth at me.com  Tue Nov 30 13:37:39 2021
From: tuckergarth at me.com (Garth Tucker)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 19:37:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Ice Rinks
Message-ID: <DDDDAA2B-FF4A-461A-8FCD-A460CA785F79@me.com>

The Queens Ice Rink is on the Queensway in Bayswater.

With regard to the Rink in Richmond (St. Margarets, Twickenham, to be precise) could it have been that Geoff, Nick and I were there on the same pre-BBC occasion?

Garth

From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 30 17:09:39 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 23:09:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Amazon
Message-ID: <ac16741d-bb8b-acaf-91d6-cdfcfd0e31ea@btinternet.com>

I ordered a present for my new son-in-law from Amazon and gave them the 
delivery address in Somerset. It arrived at MY house this morning! On an 
Amazon e-mail to me it said that my parcel had been delivered and handed 
to the recipient IN SOMERSET! How's that for misinformation? Cheers, Dave



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Nov 30 17:18:19 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 23:18:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Amazon
In-Reply-To: <ac16741d-bb8b-acaf-91d6-cdfcfd0e31ea@btinternet.com>
References: <ac16741d-bb8b-acaf-91d6-cdfcfd0e31ea@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <61a6b13a.1c69fb81.4b0bd.626d@mx.google.com>

I?ve never had a problem with a different delivery address from the normal one ? are you sure that you dialled in the one you wanted?
The order page gives the optional delivery addresses.
Maybe your barcode reader was faulty!

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: dave.mdv via Tech1
Sent: 30 November 2021 23:11
To: Phil; Dave; Dave; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Amazon

I ordered a present for my new son-in-law from Amazon and gave them the 
delivery address in Somerset. It arrived at MY house this morning! On an 
Amazon e-mail to me it said that my parcel had been delivered and handed 
to the recipient IN SOMERSET! How's that for misinformation? Cheers, Dave


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From mibridge at mac.com  Tue Nov 30 18:06:11 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2021 00:06:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Amazon
In-Reply-To: <61a6b13a.1c69fb81.4b0bd.626d@mx.google.com>
References: <61a6b13a.1c69fb81.4b0bd.626d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <56EB71CC-B4E9-4EDC-988E-BA574C0E5ABF@mac.com>

Like Pat, I?ve not had a problem with sending Amazon stuff to addresses other than my own.  
Perhaps it?s the way you tell them, Dave!

I suspect that the English language is not a strong point for many of the delivery drivers and as most of the text must be pre-written, they probably don?t read the message they are selecting, especially as they are always in a hurry. At least, I presume the drivers initiate the delivery messages as they seem to arrive very quickly after the event, often complete with a photo of where the parcel was left. 

We?re almost on first name terms with our fairly regular Hermes driver, Armando, except that he?s usually on his way out of the drive by the time we notice he?s arrived, so we do t often speak. 

Mike G



> On 30 Nov 2021, at 23:18, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I?ve never had a problem with a different delivery address from the normal one ? are you sure that you dialled in the one you wanted?
> The order page gives the optional delivery addresses.
> Maybe your barcode reader was faulty!
>  
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>  
> From: dave.mdv via Tech1
> Sent: 30 November 2021 23:11
> To: Phil; Dave; Dave; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: [Tech1] Amazon
>  
> I ordered a present for my new son-in-law from Amazon and gave them the
> delivery address in Somerset. It arrived at MY house this morning! On an
> Amazon e-mail to me it said that my parcel had been delivered and handed
> to the recipient IN SOMERSET! How's that for misinformation? Cheers, Dave
>  
>  
> --
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> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>  
> 
> 
>  	
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 30 18:13:54 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2021 00:13:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Amazon
In-Reply-To: <ac16741d-bb8b-acaf-91d6-cdfcfd0e31ea@btinternet.com>
References: <ac16741d-bb8b-acaf-91d6-cdfcfd0e31ea@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4466074c-6120-d246-338c-6820b44d844a@btinternet.com>

I'd assumed pretty well all the sorting was done with machines, based on 
the barcode reference. With only the local delivery left to humans.

On 30/11/2021 23:09, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
> I ordered a present for my new son-in-law from Amazon and gave them 
> the delivery address in Somerset. It arrived at MY house this morning! 
> On an Amazon e-mail to me it said that my parcel had been delivered 
> and handed to the recipient IN SOMERSET! How's that for 
> misinformation? Cheers, Dave
>
>


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 30 18:19:33 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2021 00:19:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Amazon
In-Reply-To: <61a6b13a.1c69fb81.4b0bd.626d@mx.google.com>
References: <ac16741d-bb8b-acaf-91d6-cdfcfd0e31ea@btinternet.com>
	<61a6b13a.1c69fb81.4b0bd.626d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <e2f1cbcf-9eb2-142c-eefa-161ed5d929b6@btinternet.com>

I order enough stuff online? to be able to fill in the delivery 
addresses Pat. In this case it isn't too serious as it was a Christmas 
present and we will be sending more gifts in the next few weeks anyway? 
Cheers, Dave.

On 30/11/2021 23:18, patheigham wrote:
>
> I?ve never had a problem with a different delivery address from the 
> normal one ? are you sure that you dialled in the one you wanted?
>
> The order page gives the optional delivery addresses.
>
> Maybe your barcode reader was faulty!
>
> Pat
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows
>
> *From: *dave.mdv via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *30 November 2021 23:11
> *To: *Phil <mailto:phil at philwthomas.plus.com>; Dave 
> <mailto:davelebreton at btinternet.com>; Dave 
> <mailto:d.cjennings at btinternet.com>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject: *[Tech1] Amazon
>
> I ordered a present for my new son-in-law from Amazon and gave them the
>
> delivery address in Somerset. It arrived at MY house this morning! On an
>
> Amazon e-mail to me it said that my parcel had been delivered and handed
>
> to the recipient IN SOMERSET! How's that for misinformation? Cheers, Dave
>
> -- 
>
> Tech1 mailing list
>
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 30 18:25:41 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2021 00:25:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Amazon
In-Reply-To: <4466074c-6120-d246-338c-6820b44d844a@btinternet.com>
References: <ac16741d-bb8b-acaf-91d6-cdfcfd0e31ea@btinternet.com>
	<4466074c-6120-d246-338c-6820b44d844a@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <6269fac1-4246-fe1a-28c3-61c1729e83a9@btinternet.com>

On the first 'confirmation? of order' e-mail from Amazon they put the 
correct delivery address. Nuff said! Cheers, Dave. PS. The driver was 
back in his van as soon as the reverb from the door bell had finished so 
it wasn't 'handed' to anyone but dumped in the porch! cheers, Dave

On 01/12/2021 00:13, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> I'd assumed pretty well all the sorting was done with machines, based 
> on the barcode reference. With only the local delivery left to humans.
>
> On 30/11/2021 23:09, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
>> I ordered a present for my new son-in-law from Amazon and gave them 
>> the delivery address in Somerset. It arrived at MY house this 
>> morning! On an Amazon e-mail to me it said that my parcel had been 
>> delivered and handed to the recipient IN SOMERSET! How's that for 
>> misinformation? Cheers, Dave
>>
>>
>