From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jul  1 08:04:41 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 14:04:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Wimbledon
In-Reply-To: <6d65358f-fa75-3766-66d0-9c717771e5c8@gmail.com>
References: <6d65358f-fa75-3766-66d0-9c717771e5c8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60ddbd6a.1c69fb81.1b061.e797@mx.google.com>

Now that the tennis is in full swing, here?s my Wimbledon story (yes, Nick, I?ve probably posted it before!).
Working on a PSC crew for NBC, one year, we were allowed to set foot on a corner of the hallowed Centre Court turf to shoot a piece to camera by Dick Enberg, the head and very well known presenter for NBC.
While we were setting up, the court was surrounded by a number of security gentlemen, there to prevent anyone from treading on said turf.
A guy in just shorts and plimsoles wandered across and was shouted at to keep off the grass. ?I?m just about to mow it!? he retorted.
It would have been more amusing if he had just acknowledged the admonishment, then returned with his mower!
It must break the groundsman?s heart when the grass is so quickly destroyed at the serving positions.
A story for OB?s:
When the venue built the ?media centre? and banished the MCR?s to an underground park, instead of the lovely village that used to be built outside, one year the Championships overran due to weather, and spilled into a third week.
The BBC MCR was due in Sweden shortly, but couldn?t get out as other broadcasters vehicles were blocking it in, the BBC having got in first.
I?m sure that someone will verify this!

Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10




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From waresound at msn.com  Thu Jul  1 09:46:31 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 14:46:31 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wimbledon
In-Reply-To: <60ddbd6a.1c69fb81.1b061.e797@mx.google.com>
References: <6d65358f-fa75-3766-66d0-9c717771e5c8@gmail.com>,
	<60ddbd6a.1c69fb81.1b061.e797@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981CA8A4334EF827A12C153A7009@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

OK Pat, I surrender, keep ?em coming!
As far as the OB overrun is concerned, I?m sure Dave D and others will confirm that the order the trucks went in (and came out) was/is a carefully planned excercise. I did 22 years at Wimbledon, and Dave even more than that. I?m not sure which year you are talking about, but in my latter years there, the truck I worked out of was Hans Oberg?s Swedish truck, and I know he was also pretty keen to get out as fast as possible. His (Prisma) truck was, during my time, always last in and first out. It used to sit in the car park until everyone else was in place. I don?t know whether the BBC truck made it to Sweden in time, but if it didn?t, they had others (in those days).
The turf: It may not be generally known, but the turf on Centre Court was/is new every year, and actually part of a research project in collaboration with the RHS, if I remember correctly, for the development of hard wearing turfs for that purpose. The guys who mow it know it?s going to be dug up as soon as the tournament ends.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 1 Jul 2021, at 14:05, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Now that the tennis is in full swing, here?s my Wimbledon story (yes, Nick, I?ve probably posted it before!).
Working on a PSC crew for NBC, one year, we were allowed to set foot on a corner of the hallowed Centre Court turf to shoot a piece to camera by Dick Enberg, the head and very well known presenter for NBC.
While we were setting up, the court was surrounded by a number of security gentlemen, there to prevent anyone from treading on said turf.
A guy in just shorts and plimsoles wandered across and was shouted at to keep off the grass. ?I?m just about to mow it!? he retorted.
It would have been more amusing if he had just acknowledged the admonishment, then returned with his mower!
It must break the groundsman?s heart when the grass is so quickly destroyed at the serving positions.
A story for OB?s:
When the venue built the ?media centre? and banished the MCR?s to an underground park, instead of the lovely village that used to be built outside, one year the Championships overran due to weather, and spilled into a third week.
The BBC MCR was due in Sweden shortly, but couldn?t get out as other broadcasters vehicles were blocking it in, the BBC having got in first.
I?m sure that someone will verify this!

Pat


Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10




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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Jul  1 09:55:14 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 15:55:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Wimbledon
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981CA8A4334EF827A12C153A7009@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAXP191MB1981CA8A4334EF827A12C153A7009@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <FDAF7C4E-7728-4F0C-832C-F6B0F4D3E097@me.com>

I remember being allowed to briefly set foot on the Wimbledon turf many years ago and the over-riding impression was just how incredibly hard it was.  It seemed unfeasibly hard, more like a man made material than a living thing which was growing.

Alan Taylor

> On 1 Jul 2021, at 15:47, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> OK Pat, I surrender, keep ?em coming! 
> As far as the OB overrun is concerned, I?m sure Dave D and others will confirm that the order the trucks went in (and came out) was/is a carefully planned excercise. I did 22 years at Wimbledon, and Dave even more than that. I?m not sure which year you are talking about, but in my latter years there, the truck I worked out of was Hans Oberg?s Swedish truck, and I know he was also pretty keen to get out as fast as possible. His (Prisma) truck was, during my time, always last in and first out. It used to sit in the car park until everyone else was in place. I don?t know whether the BBC truck made it to Sweden in time, but if it didn?t, they had others (in those days).
> The turf: It may not be generally known, but the turf on Centre Court was/is new every year, and actually part of a research project in collaboration with the RHS, if I remember correctly, for the development of hard wearing turfs for that purpose. The guys who mow it know it?s going to be dug up as soon as the tournament ends.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>>> On 1 Jul 2021, at 14:05, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Now that the tennis is in full swing, here?s my Wimbledon story (yes, Nick, I?ve probably posted it before!).
>> Working on a PSC crew for NBC, one year, we were allowed to set foot on a corner of the hallowed Centre Court turf to shoot a piece to camera by Dick Enberg, the head and very well known presenter for NBC.
>> While we were setting up, the court was surrounded by a number of security gentlemen, there to prevent anyone from treading on said turf.
>> A guy in just shorts and plimsoles wandered across and was shouted at to keep off the grass. ?I?m just about to mow it!? he retorted.
>> It would have been more amusing if he had just acknowledged the admonishment, then returned with his mower!
>> It must break the groundsman?s heart when the grass is so quickly destroyed at the serving positions.
>> A story for OB?s:
>> When the venue built the ?media centre? and banished the MCR?s to an underground park, instead of the lovely village that used to be built outside, one year the Championships overran due to weather, and spilled into a third week.
>> The BBC MCR was due in Sweden shortly, but couldn?t get out as other broadcasters vehicles were blocking it in, the BBC having got in first.
>> I?m sure that someone will verify this!
>>  
>> Pat
>>  
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 	
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Jul  1 13:02:17 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 19:02:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Video
Message-ID: <cbf854f6-53fd-62d3-a6a3-c2d6e19e3290@btinternet.com>

A change from football and tennis for you to enjoy! Three different 
offerings on the way. Cheers, Dave

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Jul  1 13:04:08 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 19:04:08 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Second one
Message-ID: <90b7e049-a031-eec3-e54c-7bd28b5a2423@btinternet.com>

67 amazing photos! Cheers, Dave

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Jul  1 13:06:16 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 19:06:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Third one
Message-ID: <1a2e75ca-42a2-fc14-8b8f-96c37cb6f85c@btinternet.com>

Should happen more often! Cheers, Dave

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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Thu Jul  1 13:28:31 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 19:28:31 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Second one
In-Reply-To: <90b7e049-a031-eec3-e54c-7bd28b5a2423@btinternet.com>
References: <90b7e049-a031-eec3-e54c-7bd28b5a2423@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <0E7D7D11-F252-4DB0-AE11-7B582E3A97F4@icloud.com>

The Swedish naval base photo is flipped left to right.
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 1 Jul 2021, at 19:04, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 67 amazing photos! Cheers, Dave
> 
> <rarest photographs.pdf.pdf.pdf>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Jul  1 13:51:27 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 19:51:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Second one
In-Reply-To: <0E7D7D11-F252-4DB0-AE11-7B582E3A97F4@icloud.com>
References: <90b7e049-a031-eec3-e54c-7bd28b5a2423@btinternet.com>
	<0E7D7D11-F252-4DB0-AE11-7B582E3A97F4@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <4a2efe19-37c8-d8d6-ad4c-de5235ea8911@btinternet.com>

Thanks Graeme

 ?I just pass on what I receive from my sister-in-law! Cheers, Dave
> The Swedish naval base photo is flipped left to right.
> ?
> Graeme Wall
>
>
>> On 1 Jul 2021, at 19:04, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> 67 amazing photos! Cheers, Dave
>>
>> <rarest photographs.pdf.pdf.pdf>--
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Jul  2 11:56:57 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 17:56:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
Message-ID: <996a9539-c269-1d21-4b03-16802ef3595d@btinternet.com>

This morning I had a phone call from a young man called Detective Martin 
Healy, shoulder number SW521, from my local police station in the Civic 
Centre in Esher. He said that someone had just bought a flat screen TV 
for ?69.99 in Sainsburys in nearby Cobham using my Visa Debit Card, and 
had I made such a purchase? Of course I hadn't. He asked if I still had 
the card and could anyone else in the house have used it. I still had it 
and Doreen's card is hidden away as she has her own debit card from 
Lloyds. He went on to say that I should ring the security people on 
'999' and to listen on the phone while he disconnected the call and then 
I should enter '999'. What would you have done? I asked him to repeat 
where he was calling from and he said the police station in the Civic 
Centre, High Street, Esher, (which is correct). However, he pronounced 
'E'SHER with a short 'E' and nobody does that! So I told him he was 
scamming me and the phone went dead! I drove over to the Civic Centre 
and found it closed and in darkness, I rang Barclays and no payments had 
been taken out of the account since I last used the card at an ATM a few 
weeks ago. You live and learn, hopefully! I wonder how many people have 
fallen for that scam? Cheers, Dave



From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Fri Jul  2 12:00:03 2021
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 18:00:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
In-Reply-To: <996a9539-c269-1d21-4b03-16802ef3595d@btinternet.com>
References: <996a9539-c269-1d21-4b03-16802ef3595d@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <30B04DF0-28B0-467C-ACA0-506AAB07B1B2@btinternet.com>

Rule one! Ask him for the police station phone number and say you?ll call him back. This is the advice that the police give.
Barry.



On 2 Jul 2021, at 17:56, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> This morning I had a phone call from a young man called Detective Martin Healy, shoulder number SW521, from my local police station in the Civic Centre in Esher. He said that someone had just bought a flat screen TV for ?69.99 in Sainsburys in nearby Cobham using my Visa Debit Card, and had I made such a purchase? Of course I hadn't. He asked if I still had the card and could anyone else in the house have used it. I still had it and Doreen's card is hidden away as she has her own debit card from Lloyds. He went on to say that I should ring the security people on '999' and to listen on the phone while he disconnected the call and then I should enter '999'. What would you have done? I asked him to repeat where he was calling from and he said the police station in the Civic Centre, High Street, Esher, (which is correct). However, he pronounced 'E'SHER with a short 'E' and nobody does that! So I told him he was scamming me and the phone went dead! I drove over to the Civic Centre and found it closed and in darkness, I rang Barclays and no payments had been taken out of the account since I last used the card at an ATM a few weeks ago. You live and learn, hopefully! I wonder how many people have fallen for that scam? Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From peter.neill at icloud.com  Fri Jul  2 12:01:06 2021
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 18:01:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
In-Reply-To: <996a9539-c269-1d21-4b03-16802ef3595d@btinternet.com>
References: <996a9539-c269-1d21-4b03-16802ef3595d@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <EB1A3168-B1B4-4DEB-8164-38E08AA49AE6@icloud.com>

And, contrary to creeping usage on the TV, a British policeman would never introduce himself as ?Detective? - he?d use a proper rank.


Peter Neill



> On 2 Jul 2021, at 17:56, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> This morning I had a phone call from a young man called Detective Martin Healy, shoulder number SW521, from my local police station in the Civic Centre in Esher. He said that someone had just bought a flat screen TV for ?69.99 in Sainsburys in nearby Cobham using my Visa Debit Card, and had I made such a purchase? Of course I hadn't. He asked if I still had the card and could anyone else in the house have used it. I still had it and Doreen's card is hidden away as she has her own debit card from Lloyds. He went on to say that I should ring the security people on '999' and to listen on the phone while he disconnected the call and then I should enter '999'. What would you have done? I asked him to repeat where he was calling from and he said the police station in the Civic Centre, High Street, Esher, (which is correct). However, he pronounced 'E'SHER with a short 'E' and nobody does that! So I told him he was scamming me and the phone went dead! I drove over to the Civic Centre and found it closed and in darkness, I rang Barclays and no payments had been taken out of the account since I last used the card at an ATM a few weeks ago. You live and learn, hopefully! I wonder how many people have fallen for that scam? Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Fri Jul  2 16:45:00 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 22:45:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
In-Reply-To: <30B04DF0-28B0-467C-ACA0-506AAB07B1B2@btinternet.com>
References: <30B04DF0-28B0-467C-ACA0-506AAB07B1B2@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <0704EBFE-85B8-4322-88E5-6CF771C5AA21@gmail.com>

...and make sure the line is actually clear before you dial another number or you can find yourself talking to one of their accomplices who assures you that the previous call was genuine,
Geoff

> On 2 Jul 2021, at 18:00, Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Rule one! Ask him for the police station phone number and say you?ll call him back. This is the advice that the police give.
> Barry.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2 Jul 2021, at 17:56, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> This morning I had a phone call from a young man called Detective Martin Healy, shoulder number SW521, from my local police station in the Civic Centre in Esher. He said that someone had just bought a flat screen TV for ?69.99 in Sainsburys in nearby Cobham using my Visa Debit Card, and had I made such a purchase? Of course I hadn't. He asked if I still had the card and could anyone else in the house have used it. I still had it and Doreen's card is hidden away as she has her own debit card from Lloyds. He went on to say that I should ring the security people on '999' and to listen on the phone while he disconnected the call and then I should enter '999'. What would you have done? I asked him to repeat where he was calling from and he said the police station in the Civic Centre, High Street, Esher, (which is correct). However, he pronounced 'E'SHER with a short 'E' and nobody does that! So I told him he was scamming me and the phone went dead! I drove over to the Civic Centre and found it closed and in darkness, I rang Barclays and no payments had been taken out of the account since I last used the card at an ATM a few weeks ago. You live and learn, hopefully! I wonder how many people have fallen for that scam? Cheers, Dave
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sat Jul  3 05:14:54 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 11:14:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
In-Reply-To: <0704EBFE-85B8-4322-88E5-6CF771C5AA21@gmail.com>
References: <30B04DF0-28B0-467C-ACA0-506AAB07B1B2@btinternet.com>
	<0704EBFE-85B8-4322-88E5-6CF771C5AA21@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A1488D3A-0D6A-4D3B-A9B1-21A900331755@icloud.com>

Best bet is to use a different phone.
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 2 Jul 2021, at 22:45, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ...and make sure the line is actually clear before you dial another number or you can find yourself talking to one of their accomplices who assures you that the previous call was genuine,
> Geoff
> 
>> On 2 Jul 2021, at 18:00, Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Rule one! Ask him for the police station phone number and say you?ll call him back. This is the advice that the police give.
>> Barry.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2 Jul 2021, at 17:56, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> This morning I had a phone call from a young man called Detective Martin Healy, shoulder number SW521, from my local police station in the Civic Centre in Esher. He said that someone had just bought a flat screen TV for ?69.99 in Sainsburys in nearby Cobham using my Visa Debit Card, and had I made such a purchase? Of course I hadn't. He asked if I still had the card and could anyone else in the house have used it. I still had it and Doreen's card is hidden away as she has her own debit card from Lloyds. He went on to say that I should ring the security people on '999' and to listen on the phone while he disconnected the call and then I should enter '999'. What would you have done? I asked him to repeat where he was calling from and he said the police station in the Civic Centre, High Street, Esher, (which is correct). However, he pronounced 'E'SHER with a short 'E' and nobody does that! So I told him he was scamming me and the phone went dead! I drove over to the Civic Centre and found it closed and in darkness, I rang Barclays and no payments had been taken out of the account since I last used the card at an ATM a few weeks ago. You live and learn, hopefully! I wonder how many people have fallen for that scam? Cheers, Dave
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Jul  3 05:09:50 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2021 11:09:50 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
In-Reply-To: <996a9539-c269-1d21-4b03-16802ef3595d@btinternet.com>
References: <996a9539-c269-1d21-4b03-16802ef3595d@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <59462f1129davesound@btinternet.com>

Had the same one many years ago. Quite convincing. And before there were
so many attempted scams. Had you carried on with the call, they would
eventually ask you for your card, and they'd send a courier to collect it.
All about catching the thief.

Holding the line open while you dial the number they give part of the
scam. Real trick is to use a different phone to dial it.

With me, it was Hammersmith police station and a shop in the Westfield
Centre.  


In article <996a9539-c269-1d21-4b03-16802ef3595d at btinternet.com>,
   dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> This morning I had a phone call from a young man called Detective Martin 
> Healy, shoulder number SW521, from my local police station in the Civic 
> Centre in Esher. He said that someone had just bought a flat screen TV 
> for ?69.99 in Sainsburys in nearby Cobham using my Visa Debit Card, and 
> had I made such a purchase? Of course I hadn't. He asked if I still had 
> the card and could anyone else in the house have used it. I still had it 
> and Doreen's card is hidden away as she has her own debit card from 
> Lloyds. He went on to say that I should ring the security people on 
> '999' and to listen on the phone while he disconnected the call and then 
> I should enter '999'. What would you have done? I asked him to repeat 
> where he was calling from and he said the police station in the Civic 
> Centre, High Street, Esher, (which is correct). However, he pronounced 
> 'E'SHER with a short 'E' and nobody does that! So I told him he was 
> scamming me and the phone went dead! I drove over to the Civic Centre 
> and found it closed and in darkness, I rang Barclays and no payments had 
> been taken out of the account since I last used the card at an ATM a few 
> weeks ago. You live and learn, hopefully! I wonder how many people have 
> fallen for that scam? Cheers, Dave


> -

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Jul  3 05:13:14 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2021 11:13:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
In-Reply-To: <30B04DF0-28B0-467C-ACA0-506AAB07B1B2@btinternet.com>
References: <996a9539-c269-1d21-4b03-16802ef3595d@btinternet.com>
	<30B04DF0-28B0-467C-ACA0-506AAB07B1B2@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <59462f6006davesound@btinternet.com>

Thing with that one is how do you know the direct line to a police station
they give you is genuine? In London, IIRC, you'll not find it by Googling.

In article <30B04DF0-28B0-467C-ACA0-506AAB07B1B2 at btinternet.com>, Barry
   Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Rule one! Ask him for the police station phone number and say you?ll
> call him back. This is the advice that the police give. Barry.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Jul  3 05:20:14 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2021 11:20:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
In-Reply-To: <0704EBFE-85B8-4322-88E5-6CF771C5AA21@gmail.com>
References: <30B04DF0-28B0-467C-ACA0-506AAB07B1B2@btinternet.com>
	<0704EBFE-85B8-4322-88E5-6CF771C5AA21@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <594630050bdavesound@btinternet.com>

With my scam, many years ago, and on a landline, they played dialling tone
down the line. While holding the line open. I've a feeling BT may have
made this sort of scam where you think you're dialling a new number more
difficult - you can now actually clear the line. Not sure about mobiles,
though.

It was the girl on the 'switchboard' of the alleged police station having
a very similar West Indian accent as the police officer that woke my
suspicions.  


In article <0704EBFE-85B8-4322-88E5-6CF771C5AA21 at gmail.com>,
   Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ...and make sure the line is actually clear before you dial another
> number or you can find yourself talking to one of their accomplices who
> assures you that the previous call was genuine, Geoff

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Jul  3 05:40:20 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 11:40:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
In-Reply-To: <A1488D3A-0D6A-4D3B-A9B1-21A900331755@icloud.com>
References: <30B04DF0-28B0-467C-ACA0-506AAB07B1B2@btinternet.com>
	<0704EBFE-85B8-4322-88E5-6CF771C5AA21@gmail.com>
	<A1488D3A-0D6A-4D3B-A9B1-21A900331755@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <eb7e30c4-14c4-bc79-372e-743262d3c512@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 03/07/2021 11:14, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote:
> Best bet is to use a different phone.
> ?

Perfectly OK to use the same phone, but make a call to 17070 first. That 
reports your phone number and line status to you. You won't be able to 
make that call, or get the right answer, if they are holding the line open.

Chris Woolf



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From david.jasma at sky.com  Sat Jul  3 06:55:05 2021
From: david.jasma at sky.com (david.jasma)
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2021 12:55:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
Message-ID: <mailman.14.1625313325.16663.tech1_tech-ops.co.uk@tech-ops.co.uk>

At one time certainly in the London area, dialling the local area code? plus 1113 got you through to the local nick.Where we now live north of the border, the local police hq is definitely in the phone book.Dave BuckleySent from my Galaxy
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Sat Jul  3 10:06:36 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 16:06:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
In-Reply-To: <60e0503f.1c69fb81.3d0e1.9d28SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
References: <60e0503f.1c69fb81.3d0e1.9d28SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4E1B7C63-4BDE-4DAD-ADDB-4A9AF484B054@gmail.com>

Around here and I guess in other areas too, 101 is the non-emergency police number which in our case puts you through to the Thames Valley police. 
Don?t have high hopes though, as when I had cause to use it recently I was in a long queue and being told repeatedly to go on their website instead. I tried that while waiting and it wasn?t straight forward and I found myself going round in circles. When I finally spoke to someone I was told that what I was concerned about, namely an unknown car parked in our neighbour?s front garden (they were away and knew nothing about it) was not a police matter. They checked it wasn?t registered as stolen but that nothing more could be done about it till it had been there at least a week and that the owner could claim against anyone who damaged it while trying to move it.
They said the same thing when I reported a car that?s frequently parked on a blind bend on a narrow country road not far from us that I have to pull onto the other side of the road to pass when I can?t see if anyone?s coming. It?s in a 40mph area and has the word ?Slow? on the road in both directions and the police said it was simply up to the drivers to exercise due care. I pointed out that even in the unlikely event of both the outgoing and oncoming vehicle slowing to 20mph, the combined speed would still be 40mph and the head on impact could lead to serious injury to both vehicles and their drivers. The police said it wasn?t a police matter and to report it to the Council. Needless to say, the Council whom I had rung first told me the opposite. One day there will be a serious incident there and I hope they remember I told them,
Geoff

> On 3 Jul 2021, at 12:55, david.jasma via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> At one time certainly in the London area, dialling the local area code  plus 1113 got you through to the local nick.
> 
> Where we now live north of the border, the local police hq is definitely in the phone book.
> 
> Dave Buckley
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat Jul  3 10:58:28 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 16:58:28 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Signs of the Times
Message-ID: <6706dda6-a60d-9189-2e50-ed7d5adc85dc@btinternet.com>

How sad! Cheers, Dave

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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Sat Jul  3 11:09:10 2021
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 17:09:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
Message-ID: <0659C77D-02B0-4BA8-8C15-5645F0A57748@btinternet.com>

?
Seems a familiar story - we?ve experienced exactly the same: I wouldn?t be surprised it?s all to do with the police trying to  keep crime numbers lower. 

However, we have noticed that if a prominent local business or other important person reports something the police do appear to look into matters, even if they don?t do much more  (Bad PR otherwise) but often individual persons seem to get fobbed off in hope that they go away. 

??.But if it?s any type motoring offence they?re on you like a ton of bricks!

Steve



> On 3 Jul 2021, at 16:07, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?Around here and I guess in other areas too, 101 is the non-emergency police number which in our case puts you through to the Thames Valley police. 
> Don?t have high hopes though, as when I had cause to use it recently I was in a long queue and being told repeatedly to go on their website instead. I tried that while waiting and it wasn?t straight forward and I found myself going round in circles. When I finally spoke to someone I was told that what I was concerned about, namely an unknown car parked in our neighbour?s front garden (they were away and knew nothing about it) was not a police matter. They checked it wasn?t registered as stolen but that nothing more could be done about it till it had been there at least a week and that the owner could claim against anyone who damaged it while trying to move it.
> They said the same thing when I reported a car that?s frequently parked on a blind bend on a narrow country road not far from us that I have to pull onto the other side of the road to pass when I can?t see if anyone?s coming. It?s in a 40mph area and has the word ?Slow? on the road in both directions and the police said it was simply up to the drivers to exercise due care. I pointed out that even in the unlikely event of both the outgoing and oncoming vehicle slowing to 20mph, the combined speed would still be 40mph and the head on impact could lead to serious injury to both vehicles and their drivers. The police said it wasn?t a police matter and to report it to the Council. Needless to say, the Council whom I had rung first told me the opposite. One day there will be a serious incident there and I hope they remember I told them,
> Geoff
> 
>> On 3 Jul 2021, at 12:55, david.jasma via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> ?
>> At one time certainly in the London area, dialling the local area code  plus 1113 got you through to the local nick.
>> 
>> Where we now live north of the border, the local police hq is definitely in the phone book.
>> 
>> Dave Buckley
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my Galaxy
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Jul  3 12:15:58 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 18:15:58 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
In-Reply-To: <0659C77D-02B0-4BA8-8C15-5645F0A57748@btinternet.com>
References: <0659C77D-02B0-4BA8-8C15-5645F0A57748@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <55111621-87D4-4CFB-8041-8BA53C1B797E@me.com>

I?m convinced that the police are only interested in crimes which they know they can solve.

At my previous house, we got up one morning and discovered that somebody had tried to open our back door using a crowbar.  The stupid thing was that they unsuccessfully attacked the only really solid door which also had good locks, there were two other entrances which would have been trivially simple to break into. 

When I phoned the police, they weren?t really interested, they tried to tell me that it was merely an attempted crime etc. Just as the call was reaching its unsatisfactory conclusion, there was a conversation at the other end and suddenly they wanted to send over an officer ASAP.

When they got to my house, it became apparent that a guy had tried to break into several houses along a couple of nearby roads and was seen on CCTV at one house. They recognised him as a repeat offender.  By linking him to six attempted or actual break-ins, they got six crimes solved for the price of one, so their crime statistics looked better.

The policemen ( yes, it required two of them ) didn?t really have much interest in the evidence, they just took a quick photo, didn?t check for fingerprints, but took a brief statement consisting of about ten words plus my contact details.  As they were preparing to leave, one turned to me and said ?Just one more question sir ?? 

I was anticipating some sort of crucial detail to be clarified ? 

?That?s quite a large lawn sir, how do you manage to keep the daisies under control ??

He then spent half an hour discussing the merits of different types of mowers, lawn feeding and finally drainage strategies suitable for shallow topsoil with underlying clay.

In television equivalence, the proportions of time spent at my house were 5% Dixon of Dock Green and 95% Gardeners World. 

Alan Taylor

> On 3 Jul 2021, at 17:10, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> ?
> Seems a familiar story - we?ve experienced exactly the same: I wouldn?t be surprised it?s all to do with the police trying to  keep crime numbers lower. 
> 
> However, we have noticed that if a prominent local business or other important person reports something the police do appear to look into matters, even if they don?t do much more  (Bad PR otherwise) but often individual persons seem to get fobbed off in hope that they go away. 
> 
> ??.But if it?s any type motoring offence they?re on you like a ton of bricks!
> 
> Steve
> 


From waresound at msn.com  Sat Jul  3 13:21:24 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 18:21:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
In-Reply-To: <55111621-87D4-4CFB-8041-8BA53C1B797E@me.com>
References: <0659C77D-02B0-4BA8-8C15-5645F0A57748@btinternet.com>,
	<55111621-87D4-4CFB-8041-8BA53C1B797E@me.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981B030014D44C8E361E9C8A71E9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

In the desperate hope of finding something that?s not Sport to watch just now, I thought I might like ?Bill Oddie?s Top Ten Birds?.

It wasn?t what I thought it was going to be.
N ????
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat Jul  3 13:41:48 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 19:41:48 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dumb animals?
Message-ID: <ba099d8c-f150-4838-a96f-5b272d9c7188@btinternet.com>

Far from it! Everybody enjoys a good wash and brush-up! Cheers, Dave

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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Jul  3 13:57:57 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 19:57:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone call
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981B030014D44C8E361E9C8A71E9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAXP191MB1981B030014D44C8E361E9C8A71E9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <3E027D2C-2735-4D00-9FDF-7FE5A936F40F@me.com>

At the Durlstone Nature Reserve near Swanage, there was a blackboard outside the visitor centre centre listing forthcoming events.  One day the board said ?Introduction to the common birds of Dorset?.  I wanted to enquire if shags were included, but my wife threatened dire consequences if I did. 

Not watching football or tennis here. Even the gastro pub over the road has wheeled in a six foot screen to disturb the usual tranquility found in there.  On the other hand, we?ve got some bottles of cloudy cider which is going down very nicely and have enjoyed dinner in the garden, which is not what the local weather forecast implied. Maybe our thunderstorms got delivered to the wrong address.

Alan Taylor

> On 3 Jul 2021, at 19:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?In the desperate hope of finding something that?s not Sport to watch just now, I thought I might like ?Bill Oddie?s Top Ten Birds?.
> 
> It wasn?t what I thought it was going to be.
> N ????
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Jul  4 08:39:12 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 14:39:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tennis (was Phone call)
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981B030014D44C8E361E9C8A71E9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <0659C77D-02B0-4BA8-8C15-5645F0A57748@btinternet.com>,
	<55111621-87D4-4CFB-8041-8BA53C1B797E@me.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981B030014D44C8E361E9C8A71E9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <60e1ba01.1c69fb81.c8cde.6d2f@mx.google.com>

Perhaps you should have ?tweeted? your message to Twitter?

The only sports I watch are tennis or F1, and I would say that I did enjoy my working time at Wimbledon, for NBC and HBO, both as PSC units. Both channels liked to make little profile films to make the coverage interesting for the US viewers. (something that the BBC never seems to do?)
Seeing behind the scenes ? training the ballboys/girls, the re-stringing service set up in the front room of a very nearby house, visiting the ladies? dressing room, interviewing Tim Henman in the garden of a close house rented by his family, borrowing another house to run a series of interviews with the top players (Pete Sampras was a nice bloke ? in no hurry to depart, he sat and chatted to us while we reset). Getting my hands on both the Championship Cup and the Ladies Plate for
close-up sequence on a turntable. Oh! And one memorable afternoon when we were treated to the strawberries and champagne for a look at that! Going up on the Simon crane was scary as in the bucket, you can?t see what?s holding you up! The downside of working there was if there was a good match to watch in the crew room, inevitably we were pulled out to shoot vox-pops or reactions, just when it was getting critical. What does surprise people, is that the Centre Court is so small. The camera lenses make it look a lot larger.
Eastbourne, too, was amusing, we were not allowed into the venue there, so several $$ were thrust into the hands of the owners of a house opposite, and interviews were set up in their front garden, the subjects being brought over, including Sue Barker. The householders were delighted and gave us tea, as well.

A good experience altogether.

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: 03 July 2021 19:21
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Phone call

In the desperate hope of finding something that?s not Sport to watch just now, I thought I might like ?Bill Oddie?s Top Ten Birds?.

It wasn?t what I thought it was going to be.
N ????
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Jul  4 09:17:24 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 15:17:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tennis (was Phone call)
In-Reply-To: <60e1ba01.1c69fb81.c8cde.6d2f@mx.google.com>
References: <0659C77D-02B0-4BA8-8C15-5645F0A57748@btinternet.com>
	<55111621-87D4-4CFB-8041-8BA53C1B797E@me.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981B030014D44C8E361E9C8A71E9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<60e1ba01.1c69fb81.c8cde.6d2f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyEmyyTOhyXTY76JudGNT8N58cjxXSEfLZbJ3Mf6RoUAbA@mail.gmail.com>

Personally I'm watching The Gangs All Here on TPTV.  Great boom shadow at
1.43 in

B

On Sun, 4 Jul 2021, 14:39 patheigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Perhaps you should have ?tweeted? your message to Twitter?
>
>
>
> The only sports I watch are tennis or F1, and I would say that I did enjoy
> my working time at Wimbledon, for NBC and HBO, both as PSC units. Both
> channels liked to make little profile films to make the coverage
> interesting for the US viewers. (something that the BBC never seems to do?)
>
> Seeing behind the scenes ? training the ballboys/girls, the re-stringing
> service set up in the front room of a very nearby house, visiting the
> ladies? dressing room, interviewing Tim Henman in the garden of a close
> house rented by his family, borrowing another house to run a series of
> interviews with the top players (Pete Sampras was a nice bloke ? in no
> hurry to depart, he sat and chatted to us while we reset). Getting my hands
> on both the Championship Cup and the Ladies Plate for
>
> close-up sequence on a turntable. Oh! And one memorable afternoon when we
> were treated to the strawberries and champagne for a look at that! Going up
> on the Simon crane was scary as in the bucket, you can?t see what?s holding
> you up! The downside of working there was if there was a good match to
> watch in the crew room, inevitably we were pulled out to shoot vox-pops or
> reactions, just when it was getting critical. What does surprise people, is
> that the Centre Court is so small. The camera lenses make it look a lot
> larger.
>
> Eastbourne, too, was amusing, we were not allowed into the venue there, so
> several $$ were thrust into the hands of the owners of a house opposite,
> and interviews were set up in their front garden, the subjects being
> brought over, including Sue Barker. The householders were delighted and
> gave us tea, as well.
>
>
>
> A good experience altogether.
>
>
>
> Pat
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *03 July 2021 19:21
> *To: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Phone call
>
>
>
> In the desperate hope of finding something that?s not Sport to watch just
> now, I thought I might like ?Bill Oddie?s Top Ten Birds?.
>
>
>
> It wasn?t what I thought it was going to be.
>
> N ????
>
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
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> --
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> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Jul  4 09:37:05 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 15:37:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tennis (was Phone call)
In-Reply-To: <CAA7MLyEmyyTOhyXTY76JudGNT8N58cjxXSEfLZbJ3Mf6RoUAbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0659C77D-02B0-4BA8-8C15-5645F0A57748@btinternet.com>
	<55111621-87D4-4CFB-8041-8BA53C1B797E@me.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981B030014D44C8E361E9C8A71E9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<60e1ba01.1c69fb81.c8cde.6d2f@mx.google.com>
	<CAA7MLyEmyyTOhyXTY76JudGNT8N58cjxXSEfLZbJ3Mf6RoUAbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60e1c792.1c69fb81.435e.d0b8@mx.google.com>

There?s an homage to Busby Berkeley in the recent ?42nd Street? with a reproduction of the girls making patterns with their limbs shot from an overhead camera. A mirror was employed for the stage show.
TPTV is showing a couple of Laurel & Hardy films after ?Gangs?:
?Sons of the Desert? is a classic!
Some years ago I managed to persuade the local chemist who kept a small library of 16mm silent films for hire, to sell me my favourite: ?With Love & Hisses?, a two-reeler now mounted on an 800? spool.
It?s a lovely print, maybe from Blackhawk in the States.
I tried to purchase something from them, but Hal Roach had placed a restriction on sales outside the US. However, it was useful to have a friend in the States, at the time!
Fortunately, my other favourite ?The General? (Buster Keaton?) has been released on BluRay. An amazing exercise in filmmaking.
Cheers
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bernard Newnham
Sent: 04 July 2021 15:17
To: patheigham
Cc: Nick Ware; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Tennis (was Phone call)

Personally I'm watching The Gangs All Here on TPTV.? Great boom shadow at 1.43 in

B




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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Jul  4 10:39:30 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 16:39:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tennis (was Phone call)
In-Reply-To: <60e1c792.1c69fb81.435e.d0b8@mx.google.com>
References: <60e1c792.1c69fb81.435e.d0b8@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CDE7B336-E337-4576-B0BE-BA0AF30CBBE2@me.com>

?The General? is a fabulous film.  When you think about the facilities available at that time, it becomes all the more impressive.  I?m also very impressed with Chaplin?s ?City Lights?, the story is told so beautifully.

As a sound guy, I ought to not be too keen on silent movies, but the bottom line for me is that movies are telling a story and those particular films do a great job of telling an excellent story.

I loved the joke in Mel Brooks? film ?Silent Movie?, where the only word of dialogue was from  Marcel Marceau.  If you get the movie on DVD, you can choose from three language versions, all with that single word ?Non? delivered in French.

Many of you will have used BBC prop LPs which have no audio on them in order that the needle doesn?t make a noise when played as part of the action.  I did a drama where an artist had to play a vinyl album and I got the art dept to make a sleeve for the dummy record ?The best of Marcel Marceau?.  Another amusing detail from ?Silent Movie? was that Mel Brooks was frustrated by the crew not laughing at the gags, but being professional, they always kept quiet during takes, even on a silent movie.

Alan Taylor

> On 4 Jul 2021, at 15:37, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Fortunately, my other favourite ?The General? (Buster Keaton?) has been released on BluRay. An amazing exercise in filmmaking.
> Cheers
> Pat
>  
> 
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Jul  4 11:08:34 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 17:08:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] From Facebook
Message-ID: <08ecd260-126d-dbfe-f37b-36e0754395cf@gmail.com>

This is cam 4 on Wimbledon court 1. Which sport is he watching?

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Jul  4 11:20:37 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 17:20:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tennis (was Phone call)
In-Reply-To: <60e1c792.1c69fb81.435e.d0b8@mx.google.com>
References: <0659C77D-02B0-4BA8-8C15-5645F0A57748@btinternet.com>
	<55111621-87D4-4CFB-8041-8BA53C1B797E@me.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981B030014D44C8E361E9C8A71E9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<60e1ba01.1c69fb81.c8cde.6d2f@mx.google.com>
	<CAA7MLyEmyyTOhyXTY76JudGNT8N58cjxXSEfLZbJ3Mf6RoUAbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<60e1c792.1c69fb81.435e.d0b8@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <0a1899a2-b3e1-6250-f1c7-5e637c843224@gmail.com>

Boom shadow top left actually at 1.05.49 - more impressive when moving.
https://youtu.be/xZp-s4wIc_s?t=3949



The big crane shots are terribly jerky, I think maybe because they used 
Moy heads, not really designed for this stuff, but Mr Vinten hadn't 
arrived yet.



B


On 04/07/2021 15:37, patheigham wrote:
>
> There?s an homage to Busby Berkeley in the recent ?42^nd Street? with 
> a reproduction of the girls making patterns with their limbs shot from 
> an overhead camera. A mirror was employed for the stage show.
>
> TPTV is showing a couple of Laurel & Hardy films after ?Gangs?:
>
> ?Sons of the Desert? is a classic!
>
> Some years ago I managed to persuade the local chemist who kept a 
> small library of 16mm silent films for hire, to sell me my favourite: 
> ?With Love & Hisses?, a two-reeler now mounted on an 800? spool.
>
> It?s a lovely print, maybe from Blackhawk in the States.
>
> I tried to purchase something from them, but Hal Roach had placed a 
> restriction on sales outside the US. However, it was useful to have a 
> friend in the States, at the time!
>
> Fortunately, my other favourite ?The General? (Buster Keaton?) has 
> been released on BluRay. An amazing exercise in filmmaking.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *Bernard Newnham <mailto:bernie833 at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *04 July 2021 15:17
> *To: *patheigham <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net>
> *Cc: *Nick Ware <mailto:waresound at msn.com>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Tennis (was Phone call)
>
> Personally I'm watching The Gangs All Here on TPTV.? Great boom shadow 
> at 1.43 in
>
> B
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Jul  4 11:37:23 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 17:37:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tennis (was Phone call)
In-Reply-To: <CDE7B336-E337-4576-B0BE-BA0AF30CBBE2@me.com>
References: <60e1c792.1c69fb81.435e.d0b8@mx.google.com>
	<CDE7B336-E337-4576-B0BE-BA0AF30CBBE2@me.com>
Message-ID: <60e1e3c4.1c69fb81.39861.6455@mx.google.com>

There?s a sequence as an ?extra? I think on one of the DVD?s I have, showing how a long tracking shot was achieved. On a parallel rail track, the camera was mounted on the tender
of a second loco, bolted to huge baulks of timber.
I still don?t know if the bridge collapse was a model shot, or for real!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 04 July 2021 16:39
To: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Tennis (was Phone call)

?The General? is a fabulous film. ?When you think about the facilities available at that time, it becomes all the more impressive.



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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sun Jul  4 11:45:33 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 17:45:33 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] From Facebook
In-Reply-To: <08ecd260-126d-dbfe-f37b-36e0754395cf@gmail.com>
References: <08ecd260-126d-dbfe-f37b-36e0754395cf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <565FF048-0394-49EF-9810-3DA86F641C68@icloud.com>

He?s definitely clipped the headroom!
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 4 Jul 2021, at 17:08, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> This is cam 4 on Wimbledon court 1. Which sport is he watching?
> 
> <dlamlkhejmhdljbo.png>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Sun Jul  4 14:35:10 2021
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 20:35:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] awful crane shots
In-Reply-To: <0a1899a2-b3e1-6250-f1c7-5e637c843224@gmail.com>
References: <0659C77D-02B0-4BA8-8C15-5645F0A57748@btinternet.com>
	<55111621-87D4-4CFB-8041-8BA53C1B797E@me.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981B030014D44C8E361E9C8A71E9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<60e1ba01.1c69fb81.c8cde.6d2f@mx.google.com>
	<CAA7MLyEmyyTOhyXTY76JudGNT8N58cjxXSEfLZbJ3Mf6RoUAbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<60e1c792.1c69fb81.435e.d0b8@mx.google.com>
	<0a1899a2-b3e1-6250-f1c7-5e637c843224@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA0HHB3Xcjf+2E7er28muGFz68MGWxba=wfeh8VxLr5BJXfrYQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
Recently watched "Kiss Me Kate" film version (recorded some time ago, only
got round to watching it).
There were a couple of crane shots - one was a high wide shot, crane down
and track in to a medium shot.  It was atrocious!! We would have been
ashamed to offer that shot on live telly.  But as you say, no Vinten heads!
Best regards, keep safe,
Alec

sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.

On Sun, 4 Jul 2021, 17:21 Bernard Newnham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Boom shadow top left actually at 1.05.49 - more impressive when moving.
> https://youtu.be/xZp-s4wIc_s?t=3949
>
>
>
> The big crane shots are terribly jerky, I think maybe because they used
> Moy heads, not really designed for this stuff, but Mr Vinten hadn't arrived
> yet.
>
>
>
> B
>
>
> On 04/07/2021 15:37, patheigham wrote:
>
> There?s an homage to Busby Berkeley in the recent ?42nd Street? with a
> reproduction of the girls making patterns with their limbs shot from an
> overhead camera. A mirror was employed for the stage show.
>
> TPTV is showing a couple of Laurel & Hardy films after ?Gangs?:
>
> ?Sons of the Desert? is a classic!
>
> Some years ago I managed to persuade the local chemist who kept a small
> library of 16mm silent films for hire, to sell me my favourite: ?With Love
> & Hisses?, a two-reeler now mounted on an 800? spool.
>
> It?s a lovely print, maybe from Blackhawk in the States.
>
> I tried to purchase something from them, but Hal Roach had placed a
> restriction on sales outside the US. However, it was useful to have a
> friend in the States, at the time!
>
> Fortunately, my other favourite ?The General? (Buster Keaton?) has been
> released on BluRay. An amazing exercise in filmmaking.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Bernard Newnham <bernie833 at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *04 July 2021 15:17
> *To: *patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>
> *Cc: *Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Tennis (was Phone call)
>
>
>
> Personally I'm watching The Gangs All Here on TPTV.  Great boom shadow at
> 1.43 in
>
>
>
> B
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
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>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From apts at apts.org.uk  Mon Jul  5 08:27:52 2021
From: apts at apts.org.uk (Alexandra Palace Television Society)
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2021 14:27:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
Message-ID: <3F2E8244-8DFF-43F4-AB98-AC5516A8953B@apts.org.uk>

I wonder if members of Tech-Ops could help in identifying the female floor manager in this photograph.? 

 

It?s from our Desmond Campbell collection and is from a production of "Coppelia: Act 2" - 30 Jun 1947, featuring The Metropolitan Ballet.? The producer was Christian Simpson, design and sets by Stephen Bundy, with Eric Robinson conducted the orchestra.

 

Any help would be gratefully received.

 

Many thanks and best wishes

 

Simon

 

 

Simon Vaughan

Archivist

for and on behalf of

Alexandra Palace Television Society

 

 

 

 

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From gregg300341 at gmail.com  Mon Jul  5 09:27:46 2021
From: gregg300341 at gmail.com (John Ade)
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2021 15:27:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
References: <3F2E8244-8DFF-43F4-AB98-AC5516A8953B@apts.org.uk>
Message-ID: <-riapi1ymbx9h7z8tpghsul0dhu3s32-nfxdxu-pjyl9mcumfjp4afk0kx6cwxukqvjd7-f8yozq-s6jp9d-ge4v6r-hwcdar-culhc6-ji6w48ruij9s-n0fs4f-u9z01a-awi5lkoawrewc7vqhgmm55xg.1625495266009@email.android.com>

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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Mon Jul  5 09:57:22 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 15:57:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
In-Reply-To: <-riapi1ymbx9h7z8tpghsul0dhu3s32-nfxdxu-pjyl9mcumfjp4afk0kx6cwxukqvjd7-f8yozq-s6jp9d-ge4v6r-hwcdar-culhc6-ji6w48ruij9s-n0fs4f-u9z01a-awi5lkoawrewc7vqhgmm55xg.1625495266009@email.android.com>
References: <3F2E8244-8DFF-43F4-AB98-AC5516A8953B@apts.org.uk>
	<-riapi1ymbx9h7z8tpghsul0dhu3s32-nfxdxu-pjyl9mcumfjp4afk0kx6cwxukqvjd7-f8yozq-s6jp9d-ge4v6r-hwcdar-culhc6-ji6w48ruij9s-n0fs4f-u9z01a-awi5lkoawrewc7vqhgmm55xg.1625495266009@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <2685613206834C55B884D12F8C334AD2@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Been comparing the shot with this 1974 one of mother with David Dimbleby and I think John?s right. Down-turned mouth very characteristic.



Dave Newbitt.

From: John Ade via Tech1 
Sent: Monday, July 5, 2021 3:27 PM
To: Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph

It looks like Joan marsden

Sent from my Huawei phone


-------- Original message --------
From: Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021, 14:28
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph

  I wonder if members of Tech-Ops could help in identifying the female floor manager in this photograph.  



  It?s from our Desmond Campbell collection and is from a production of "Coppelia: Act 2" - 30 Jun 1947, featuring The Metropolitan Ballet.  The producer was Christian Simpson, design and sets by Stephen Bundy, with Eric Robinson conducted the orchestra.



  Any help would be gratefully received.



  Many thanks and best wishes



  Simon





  Simon Vaughan

  Archivist

  for and on behalf of

  Alexandra Palace Television Society











--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Mon Jul  5 13:11:20 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 19:11:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
In-Reply-To: <-riapi1ymbx9h7z8tpghsul0dhu3s32-nfxdxu-pjyl9mcumfjp4afk0kx6cwxukqvjd7-f8yozq-s6jp9d-ge4v6r-hwcdar-culhc6-ji6w48ruij9s-n0fs4f-u9z01a-awi5lkoawrewc7vqhgmm55xg.1625495266009@email.android.com>
References: <3F2E8244-8DFF-43F4-AB98-AC5516A8953B@apts.org.uk>
	<-riapi1ymbx9h7z8tpghsul0dhu3s32-nfxdxu-pjyl9mcumfjp4afk0kx6cwxukqvjd7-f8yozq-s6jp9d-ge4v6r-hwcdar-culhc6-ji6w48ruij9s-n0fs4f-u9z01a-awi5lkoawrewc7vqhgmm55xg.1625495266009@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1C1319709D0C4650902B2FE243C3AA6C@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>



I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!

Dave Newbitt
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Mon Jul  5 13:18:41 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 19:18:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
In-Reply-To: <1C1319709D0C4650902B2FE243C3AA6C@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <3F2E8244-8DFF-43F4-AB98-AC5516A8953B@apts.org.uk>
	<-riapi1ymbx9h7z8tpghsul0dhu3s32-nfxdxu-pjyl9mcumfjp4afk0kx6cwxukqvjd7-f8yozq-s6jp9d-ge4v6r-hwcdar-culhc6-ji6w48ruij9s-n0fs4f-u9z01a-awi5lkoawrewc7vqhgmm55xg.1625495266009@email.android.com>
	<1C1319709D0C4650902B2FE243C3AA6C@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <36d9d781-86d3-446a-bd4f-bc8751b2a77e@btinternet.com>

I worked with 'Mother' from 1963 onwards and she was exactly as DN's 
photo shows her, tall, gaunt, grey haired and flat chested (Richard 
Dimbleby once told her her blouse was 'an empty threat'! OK, it's 16 
years after the query photo but I can't imagine she would have changed 
that much! Cheers, Dave

On 05/07/2021 19:11, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
> I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother 
> and one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!
> Dave Newbitt
>
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Mon Jul  5 13:22:45 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 19:22:45 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
In-Reply-To: <36d9d781-86d3-446a-bd4f-bc8751b2a77e@btinternet.com>
References: <3F2E8244-8DFF-43F4-AB98-AC5516A8953B@apts.org.uk>
	<-riapi1ymbx9h7z8tpghsul0dhu3s32-nfxdxu-pjyl9mcumfjp4afk0kx6cwxukqvjd7-f8yozq-s6jp9d-ge4v6r-hwcdar-culhc6-ji6w48ruij9s-n0fs4f-u9z01a-awi5lkoawrewc7vqhgmm55xg.1625495266009@email.android.com>
	<1C1319709D0C4650902B2FE243C3AA6C@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<36d9d781-86d3-446a-bd4f-bc8751b2a77e@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <71347E0F-AB05-405E-BCE7-2754C965849F@icloud.com>

Only problem is the 1947 frock doesn?t look like an empty threat!

? 
Graeme Wall


> On 5 Jul 2021, at 19:18, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I worked with 'Mother' from 1963 onwards and she was exactly as DN's photo shows her, tall, gaunt, grey haired and flat chested (Richard Dimbleby once told her her blouse was 'an empty threat'! OK, it's 16 years after the query photo but I can't imagine she would have changed that much! Cheers, Dave
> 
> On 05/07/2021 19:11, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
>>  
>>  
>> I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!
>>  
>> Dave Newbitt
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Mon Jul  5 13:49:13 2021
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 19:49:13 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
In-Reply-To: <36d9d781-86d3-446a-bd4f-bc8751b2a77e@btinternet.com>
References: <3F2E8244-8DFF-43F4-AB98-AC5516A8953B@apts.org.uk>
	<-riapi1ymbx9h7z8tpghsul0dhu3s32-nfxdxu-pjyl9mcumfjp4afk0kx6cwxukqvjd7-f8yozq-s6jp9d-ge4v6r-hwcdar-culhc6-ji6w48ruij9s-n0fs4f-u9z01a-awi5lkoawrewc7vqhgmm55xg.1625495266009@email.android.com>
	<1C1319709D0C4650902B2FE243C3AA6C@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<36d9d781-86d3-446a-bd4f-bc8751b2a77e@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAA0HHB2UT2MdP-dy3_PkQhbfVcgJcPF4XaXbHF=Mu09GF-t7aA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
Not mother.

In 1940, Joan joined the Women's Auxiliary Air Force. She was soon promoted
to flight officer and became a fighter sector controller at the airbase
that is now Goodwood.

When she was demobbed after five and a half years' service she went back to
the theatre, and in 1957 she joined BBC Television as an assistant floor
manager.

"...In 1960, Joan Marsden became the  first woman floor manager and oversaw
16 general elections and 18 years of Panorama..."

>From your very own Tech Ops web site.

Best regards, Alec


sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.

On Mon, 5 Jul 2021, 19:19 dave.mdv via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I worked with 'Mother' from 1963 onwards and she was exactly as DN's photo
> shows her, tall, gaunt, grey haired and flat chested (Richard Dimbleby once
> told her her blouse was 'an empty threat'! OK, it's 16 years after the
> query photo but I can't imagine she would have changed that much! Cheers,
> Dave
> On 05/07/2021 19:11, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
>
>
>
> I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and
> one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!
>
> Dave Newbitt
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From geoffletch at gmail.com  Mon Jul  5 14:04:12 2021
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 20:04:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
In-Reply-To: <36d9d781-86d3-446a-bd4f-bc8751b2a77e@btinternet.com>
References: <3F2E8244-8DFF-43F4-AB98-AC5516A8953B@apts.org.uk>
	<-riapi1ymbx9h7z8tpghsul0dhu3s32-nfxdxu-pjyl9mcumfjp4afk0kx6cwxukqvjd7-f8yozq-s6jp9d-ge4v6r-hwcdar-culhc6-ji6w48ruij9s-n0fs4f-u9z01a-awi5lkoawrewc7vqhgmm55xg.1625495266009@email.android.com>
	<1C1319709D0C4650902B2FE243C3AA6C@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<36d9d781-86d3-446a-bd4f-bc8751b2a77e@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB9ONdb8OMFMtt=bEzD7770orZqk1-9T-fTQ_aPGKcsXbg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear old Mother was not tall - she was petite Dave. She had a soft spot for
Pete Ware. She was a WAAF in WW2 and Pete once told me she was a plotter
keeping  track of German raiders and our fighters. Pete was a fighter pilot
so they had a lot in common as regards shared experiences. Everyone loved
Mum.
Geoff F

On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 at 19:19, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> I worked with 'Mother' from 1963 onwards and she was exactly as DN's photo
> shows her, tall, gaunt, grey haired and flat chested (Richard Dimbleby once
> told her her blouse was 'an empty threat'! OK, it's 16 years after the
> query photo but I can't imagine she would have changed that much! Cheers,
> Dave
> On 05/07/2021 19:11, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
>
>
>
> I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and
> one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!
>
> Dave Newbitt
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From phider at gmx.com  Mon Jul  5 14:04:35 2021
From: phider at gmx.com (phider)
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2021 20:04:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
In-Reply-To: <1C1319709D0C4650902B2FE243C3AA6C@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <1MI5Q5-1lwMlw11Tr-00F9CV@mail.gmx.net>

I knew Mother extremely well right from Richard Dimbleby days on Panorama and it is DEFINITELY her in the photo with D Dimblebub.?The sign on the flat behind them is Panorama's symbol. Maybe he was visiting his dad.Peter HiderSent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 05/07/2021  19:11  (GMT+00:00) To: John Ade <gregg300341 at gmail.com>, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph 


?


?
I?ve had a message 
from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and one from Ravenscourt (??) 
categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!
?
Dave 
Newbitt
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From geoffletch at gmail.com  Mon Jul  5 14:47:36 2021
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 20:47:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
In-Reply-To: <1MI5Q5-1lwMlw11Tr-00F9CV@mail.gmx.net>
References: <1C1319709D0C4650902B2FE243C3AA6C@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<1MI5Q5-1lwMlw11Tr-00F9CV@mail.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB-dUrNOZF3bBXk20atOHc7-J9hOo5MXz_8KPsHZ-Re8iA@mail.gmail.com>

It is definitely Mother in the photo with Dimbleby Junior.
Geoff F

On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 at 20:05, phider via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I knew Mother extremely well right from Richard Dimbleby days on Panorama
> and it is DEFINITELY her in the photo with D Dimblebub.
> The sign on the flat behind them is Panorama's symbol. Maybe he was
> visiting his dad.
> Peter Hider
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: 05/07/2021 19:11 (GMT+00:00)
> To: John Ade <gregg300341 at gmail.com>, Alexandra Palace Television Society
> via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
>
>
>
> I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and
> one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!
>
> Dave Newbitt
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Mon Jul  5 16:02:16 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 22:02:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Mother
Message-ID: <d6ed4a8c-dad5-8dee-54a8-e82e89d988d1@btinternet.com>

Sorry, Geoff, she appeared to be tall because she was so slim, I think 
'gaunt' is pretty accurate! Not at all like the buxom lady in the query 
photo. Cheers, Dave



From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Mon Jul  5 17:17:32 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 23:17:32 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Mother
Message-ID: <7043502D-7888-4ED3-977B-CF236E934514@gmail.com>

?There was never a question as to who it was with DD on the Panorama set as anyone who worked in studios from the sixties on would recognise her straight away. 

I?m with Dave and think that while the FM in the older photo has the same mouth and frown (does anyone ever remember Mother with a smile - a scold and a stamp of the foot if she didn?t get an immediate response to her shout for quiet, yes and she was always very much in charge), her body build and face shape were much slimmer and I think it unlikely she would?ve changed that much with age, though I know it can happen.
I like the story of her wartime activities Geoff F and thank you for telling us that,
Geoff Hawkes



Geoff
> On 5 Jul 2021, at 22:02, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Sorry, Geoff, she appeared to be tall because she was so slim, I think 'gaunt' is pretty accurate! Not at all like the buxom lady in the query photo. Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From billjenkin67 at gmail.com  Tue Jul  6 02:49:52 2021
From: billjenkin67 at gmail.com (Bill Jenkin)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 08:49:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
In-Reply-To: <1C1319709D0C4650902B2FE243C3AA6C@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <3F2E8244-8DFF-43F4-AB98-AC5516A8953B@apts.org.uk>	<-riapi1ymbx9h7z8tpghsul0dhu3s32-nfxdxu-pjyl9mcumfjp4afk0kx6cwxukqvjd7-f8yozq-s6jp9d-ge4v6r-hwcdar-culhc6-ji6w48ruij9s-n0fs4f-u9z01a-awi5lkoawrewc7vqhgmm55xg.1625495266009@email.android.com>
	<1C1319709D0C4650902B2FE243C3AA6C@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <006201d7723b$819fa800$84def800$@gmail.com>

Whoever the FM is in the original photo from APTS it isn?t Mother. Apart from anything else I can?t imagine Joan Marsden ever wearing a dress like that. 
Also I think this photo must date from possibly before or just after the war (that looks like the side of an Emitron camera) and Joan didn?t join the BBC until after she had been a stage manager in the West End which she did after the war so I think the timing is all wrong.
Of course it definitely is her in the other photo with David Dimbleby.

Bill J

 

From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of David Newbitt via Tech1
Sent: 05 July 2021 19:11
To: John Ade; Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1
Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph

 

 

 

I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!

 

Dave Newbitt

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Jul  6 03:08:30 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 09:08:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Mother
Message-ID: <60e40f7d.1c69fb81.b5dfd.e3e2@mx.google.com>

Agreed, according to Mother?s obituaries in the Telegraph and Guardian, and in IMDb, she joined the BBC in 1957, ten years after the queried photograph.
My Mother story:
Panorama
Richard D was the ultimate professional, but he had a lovely sense of humour.
Fellow technicians will remember Joan Marsden (Floor Manager) known as "Mother" to cast and crew alike, who ran the studio with a rod of iron.
One night, to illustrate the number of summonses sent out by one London borough, there was a huge pile of brown envelopes in front of RD's desk. On rehearsal, he leant forward, picked upon the top one, wrote on it, replaced it, and beckoned the camera to focus on it.
It read: "To Mother - for Soliciting"

Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bill Jenkin via Tech1
Sent: 06 July 2021 08:50
To: co. uk email group
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph

Whoever the FM is in the original photo from APTS it isn?t Mother. Apart from anything else I can?t imagine Joan Marsden ever wearing a dress like that. 
Also I think this photo must date from possibly before or just after the war (that looks like the side of an Emitron camera) and Joan didn?t join the BBC until after she had been a stage manager in the West End which she did after the war so I think the timing is all wrong.
Of course it definitely is her in the other photo with David Dimbleby.
Bill J

From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of David Newbitt via Tech1
Sent: 05 July 2021 19:11
To: John Ade; Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1
Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph

?
?
I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!
?
Dave Newbitt


Sent from Mail for Windows 10



-- 
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From mrcolinstone at outlook.com  Tue Jul  6 03:43:17 2021
From: mrcolinstone at outlook.com (Colin Stone)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 08:43:17 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] U by
Message-ID: <LO0P265MB31465C71D4D4FD76DB2F0D37C71B9@LO0P265MB3146.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>



Sent from my iPhone


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Jul  6 04:00:17 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 10:00:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] FW: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith
In-Reply-To: <60e41ad2.1c69fb81.2d0d5.54d0@mx.google.com>
References: <3EB5B48B-8971-4160-9F16-F6CCEB150BC4@btinternet.com>
	<446e4ae5-dc4a-9824-c58d-d0dc71c12d8c@gmail.com>
	<60e41ad2.1c69fb81.2d0d5.54d0@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <60e41ba1.1c69fb81.39a1c.6043@mx.google.com>

Second attempt to send.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: patheigham
Sent: 06 July 2021 09:56
To: Bernard Newnham; tech1 at tech-ops
Subject: RE: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith

Very sorry to hear that news.
If it was the same Frank who was on TO course 13, March 1962, then here?s a pic attached.
Also a story:
BBC Evesham Club
The BBC Training establishment just outside Evesham kept a large house in the town as a leisure club for attendees.
One night in the bar, Reg, the Steward was trying to get us to participate in a stunt. He bet us that we could not tip a coin balanced on the forehead into a funnel tucked into the waistband of trousers. Frank, who was a tad older than the rest of us and more savvy (National Service?) played dim and pretended not to understand the setup. Frustrated, and to demonstrate, Reg tucked the funnel into his waistband, whereupon, Frank at the speed of greased lightning, tipped his pint into the funnel! The look on Reg?s face as he realised he?d been caught with his own gag, was worth the cost of the laundry and another round!

Pat



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: ?????????? Frank Smith
Date: ?? Mon, 5 Jul 2021 19:12:38 +0100
From: ? Appletrees iMap <appletrees at btinternet.com>
To: ?????? TVNET Group Email <TVNET at television-network.uk>



Well you know what it means when you see a name in the subject line.
Katie contacted me today, and Frank died peacefully yesterday at 6pm. He 
was in a nursing home in Dursley, and had been there for 3? weeks, 
starting with two weeks to give Katie some respite, but stayed on as his 
health deteriorated.
I will let you all know about funeral arrangements when they are known.

Oh dear?

Nigel




This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
www.avast.com 




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From geoffletch at gmail.com  Tue Jul  6 04:34:36 2021
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 10:34:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Mother
In-Reply-To: <60e40f7d.1c69fb81.b5dfd.e3e2@mx.google.com>
References: <60e40f7d.1c69fb81.b5dfd.e3e2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BAEF1B55-0EF8-42E4-B796-29D7E326DD0A@gmail.com>

Another photo of Mother.
Geoff F


> On 6 Jul 2021, at 09:08, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Agreed, according to Mother?s obituaries in the Telegraph and Guardian, and in IMDb, she joined the BBC in 1957, ten years after the queried photograph.
> My Mother story:
> Panorama
> Richard D was the ultimate professional, but he had a lovely sense of humour.
> Fellow technicians will remember Joan Marsden (Floor Manager) known as "Mother" to cast and crew alike, who ran the studio with a rod of iron.
> One night, to illustrate the number of summonses sent out by one London borough, there was a huge pile of brown envelopes in front of RD's desk. On rehearsal, he leant forward, picked upon the top one, wrote on it, replaced it, and beckoned the camera to focus on it.
> It read: "To Mother - for Soliciting"
>  
> Best
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
> From: Bill Jenkin via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: 06 July 2021 08:50
> To: co. uk email group <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
>  
> Whoever the FM is in the original photo from APTS it isn?t Mother. Apart from anything else I can?t imagine Joan Marsden ever wearing a dress like that. 
> Also I think this photo must date from possibly before or just after the war (that looks like the side of an Emitron camera) and Joan didn?t join the BBC until after she had been a stage manager in the West End which she did after the war so I think the timing is all wrong.
> Of course it definitely is her in the other photo with David Dimbleby.
> Bill J
>  
> From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk>] On Behalf Of David Newbitt via Tech1
> Sent: 05 July 2021 19:11
> To: John Ade; Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1
> Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net <mailto:dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
>  
>  
>  
> I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!
>  
> Dave Newbitt
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
> 
> 
>  <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
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From apts at apts.org.uk  Tue Jul  6 08:12:10 2021
From: apts at apts.org.uk (Alexandra Palace Television Society)
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 14:12:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
Message-ID: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk>

Many thanks for the responses so far, but as Bill and Pat point out the dates don?t match.

I initially thought it was Mother in the photo, but it?s not possible.? The photograph is from a ballet production from June 1947 - a decade before Joan began at the BBC.? 

To complicate things further I?ve spotted our lady again ? one of the photographs shows her operating the Emitron camera!? The only known woman to operate cameras post-war at AP was Bimbi Harris - ?and this isn?t Bimbi.? ?Zooming in on the viewfinder cover reveals the ?camera to be No. 4 in Studio A.? It was my assumption she was the FM based on the first photograph.

Another photograph shows the crew of the crane - our mystery lady can be seen in this photo on the extreme right of the frame (identified by her dress).

Again any thoughts would be most welcome.

Simon

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> on behalf of Bill Jenkin via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Reply to: Bill Jenkin <billjenkin67 at gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 6 July 2021 at 08:49
To: "co. uk email group" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph

 

Whoever the FM is in the original photo from APTS it isn?t Mother. Apart from anything else I can?t imagine Joan Marsden ever wearing a dress like that. 
Also I think this photo must date from possibly before or just after the war (that looks like the side of an Emitron camera) and Joan didn?t join the BBC until after she had been a stage manager in the West End which she did after the war so I think the timing is all wrong.
Of course it definitely is her in the other photo with David Dimbleby.

Bill J

 

From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of David Newbitt via Tech1
Sent: 05 July 2021 19:11
To: John Ade; Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1
Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph

 

 

 

I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!

 

Dave Newbitt

 

This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
http://www.netintelligence.com/email

-- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email 

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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Jul  6 08:20:55 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 14:20:55 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk>
References: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk>
Message-ID: <F728A590-58B9-49DC-A274-FE25C26F65FA@icloud.com>

Is she operating the camera or is she cueing someone under the lens? She looks in the right position to cue the guy seated at the table.
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 6 Jul 2021, at 14:12, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Many thanks for the responses so far, but as Bill and Pat point out the dates don?t match.
> I initially thought it was Mother in the photo, but it?s not possible.  The photograph is from a ballet production from June 1947 - a decade before Joan began at the BBC.  
> To complicate things further I?ve spotted our lady again ? one of the photographs shows her operating the Emitron camera!  The only known woman to operate cameras post-war at AP was Bimbi Harris -  and this isn?t Bimbi.   Zooming in on the viewfinder cover reveals the  camera to be No. 4 in Studio A.  It was my assumption she was the FM based on the first photograph.
> Another photograph shows the crew of the crane - our mystery lady can be seen in this photo on the extreme right of the frame (identified by her dress).
> Again any thoughts would be most welcome.
> Simon
>  
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> on behalf of Bill Jenkin via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Reply to: Bill Jenkin <billjenkin67 at gmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday, 6 July 2021 at 08:49
> To: "co. uk email group" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
>  
> Whoever the FM is in the original photo from APTS it isn?t Mother. Apart from anything else I can?t imagine Joan Marsden ever wearing a dress like that. 
> Also I think this photo must date from possibly before or just after the war (that looks like the side of an Emitron camera) and Joan didn?t join the BBC until after she had been a stage manager in the West End which she did after the war so I think the timing is all wrong.
> Of course it definitely is her in the other photo with David Dimbleby.
> Bill J
>  
> From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of David Newbitt via Tech1
> Sent: 05 July 2021 19:11
> To: John Ade; Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1
> Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
>  
>  
>  
> I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!
>  
> Dave Newbitt
>  
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
> -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email
> <T50-E-29.JPG><T50-D-35.JPG>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com  Tue Jul  6 08:25:18 2021
From: simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com (Simon Vaughan)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 14:25:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <F728A590-58B9-49DC-A274-FE25C26F65FA@icloud.com>
References: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk>
	<F728A590-58B9-49DC-A274-FE25C26F65FA@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <FA07110E-3C4F-4816-8485-1FFC49F9001C@gmail.com>

My first though Graeme, but her hand is holding the focussing knob of the Emitron and it appears her head is looking into the viewfinder.

Simon 



> On 6 Jul 2021, at 14:20, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Is she operating the camera or is she cueing someone under the lens? She looks in the right position to cue the guy seated at the table.
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
>> On 6 Jul 2021, at 14:12, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Many thanks for the responses so far, but as Bill and Pat point out the dates don?t match.
>> I initially thought it was Mother in the photo, but it?s not possible.  The photograph is from a ballet production from June 1947 - a decade before Joan began at the BBC.  
>> To complicate things further I?ve spotted our lady again ? one of the photographs shows her operating the Emitron camera!  The only known woman to operate cameras post-war at AP was Bimbi Harris -  and this isn?t Bimbi.   Zooming in on the viewfinder cover reveals the  camera to be No. 4 in Studio A.  It was my assumption she was the FM based on the first photograph.
>> Another photograph shows the crew of the crane - our mystery lady can be seen in this photo on the extreme right of the frame (identified by her dress).
>> Again any thoughts would be most welcome.
>> Simon
>> 
>> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> on behalf of Bill Jenkin via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Reply to: Bill Jenkin <billjenkin67 at gmail.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, 6 July 2021 at 08:49
>> To: "co. uk email group" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
>> 
>> Whoever the FM is in the original photo from APTS it isn?t Mother. Apart from anything else I can?t imagine Joan Marsden ever wearing a dress like that. 
>> Also I think this photo must date from possibly before or just after the war (that looks like the side of an Emitron camera) and Joan didn?t join the BBC until after she had been a stage manager in the West End which she did after the war so I think the timing is all wrong.
>> Of course it definitely is her in the other photo with David Dimbleby.
>> Bill J
>> 
>> From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of David Newbitt via Tech1
>> Sent: 05 July 2021 19:11
>> To: John Ade; Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1
>> Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!
>> 
>> Dave Newbitt
>> 
>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>> -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>> <T50-E-29.JPG><T50-D-35.JPG>-- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Jul  6 08:29:31 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 14:29:31 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <FA07110E-3C4F-4816-8485-1FFC49F9001C@gmail.com>
References: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk>
	<F728A590-58B9-49DC-A274-FE25C26F65FA@icloud.com>
	<FA07110E-3C4F-4816-8485-1FFC49F9001C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2BDA65A7-2F4D-4CCE-817D-ECF58FCD5D10@icloud.com>

I?m not convinced she?s looking in the viewfinder, seems to be looking across the back of the camera. The other possibilty is she is just ?having a go? while the studio is paused for the stills guy to get some shots. After all it?s a well known chat-up line!
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 6 Jul 2021, at 14:25, Simon Vaughan <simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> My first though Graeme, but her hand is holding the focussing knob of the Emitron and it appears her head is looking into the viewfinder.
> 
> Simon 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 6 Jul 2021, at 14:20, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Is she operating the camera or is she cueing someone under the lens? She looks in the right position to cue the guy seated at the table.
>> ? 
>> Graeme Wall
>> 
>> 
>>> On 6 Jul 2021, at 14:12, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Many thanks for the responses so far, but as Bill and Pat point out the dates don?t match.
>>> I initially thought it was Mother in the photo, but it?s not possible.  The photograph is from a ballet production from June 1947 - a decade before Joan began at the BBC.  
>>> To complicate things further I?ve spotted our lady again ? one of the photographs shows her operating the Emitron camera!  The only known woman to operate cameras post-war at AP was Bimbi Harris -  and this isn?t Bimbi.   Zooming in on the viewfinder cover reveals the  camera to be No. 4 in Studio A.  It was my assumption she was the FM based on the first photograph.
>>> Another photograph shows the crew of the crane - our mystery lady can be seen in this photo on the extreme right of the frame (identified by her dress).
>>> Again any thoughts would be most welcome.
>>> Simon
>>> 
>>> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> on behalf of Bill Jenkin via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> Reply to: Bill Jenkin <billjenkin67 at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Tuesday, 6 July 2021 at 08:49
>>> To: "co. uk email group" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
>>> 
>>> Whoever the FM is in the original photo from APTS it isn?t Mother. Apart from anything else I can?t imagine Joan Marsden ever wearing a dress like that. 
>>> Also I think this photo must date from possibly before or just after the war (that looks like the side of an Emitron camera) and Joan didn?t join the BBC until after she had been a stage manager in the West End which she did after the war so I think the timing is all wrong.
>>> Of course it definitely is her in the other photo with David Dimbleby.
>>> Bill J
>>> 
>>> From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of David Newbitt via Tech1
>>> Sent: 05 July 2021 19:11
>>> To: John Ade; Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1
>>> Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!
>>> 
>>> Dave Newbitt
>>> 
>>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>>> -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>>> <T50-E-29.JPG><T50-D-35.JPG>-- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 



From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Tue Jul  6 10:11:54 2021
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 16:11:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk>
References: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk>
Message-ID: <d1082456-67dc-df53-ac4e-77e9c1593cac@gmail.com>

Hi Simon,

On 06/07/2021 14:12, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 wrote:
> one of the photographs shows her operating the Emitron camera!

I am afraid that it does NOT show her operating a camera!

There are three clues to that...

1.? There are headphones above her head which are those worn by the 
cameraperson - almost certainly a cameraman!!

earphones

I have cut the lady out of the picture to make it clearer!? With the 
person cut form the camera, you should be able to trace the lines of the 
Emitron as the protruding downward front of the camera can be clearly 
seen.? The lady is close to the camera, admittedly.


2,? Cutting the lady out of the picture shows clearly that we are seeing 
the back of her head.? Her head is positioned some 60 to 90 degrees 
clockwise from what it should be if she was operating the camera. She 
may well be watching the character which is the subject of the shot: the 
positioning is roughly correct for that.


back view of lady


3.? In the pictures I have seem of Emitrons, there are no controls in 
the area that the lady's hand is located - and in any case, her right 
hand would be on the panning handle for an Emitron!


Emitron


- but I guess that there may be other pictures in the AP TS archives 
which may show controls in those areas!!!

-----

There is another line of enquiry.? From the hand of the lady in 
question, there seems to be a cable dropping down to the ground. That 
could be a clue!

-----

These pictures have been grabbed very quickly - baby granddaughter is 
having a nap - so perhaps someone with more time and better tools can do 
a decent parse of the pictures!


Hope that this is of interest,

Best regards,


Alec


-- 

=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502

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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Jul  6 10:20:13 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 16:20:13 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <d1082456-67dc-df53-ac4e-77e9c1593cac@gmail.com>
References: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk>
	<d1082456-67dc-df53-ac4e-77e9c1593cac@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <182C4AEE-1430-44D0-BA8F-B59494EA622C@icloud.com>

Hi Alex, that cable puzzled me as well as it appears to be coming from the lens hood above her hand but no indication of why it is there. Would she have been on long-lead cans and was lifting it over the camera?
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 6 Jul 2021, at 16:11, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi Simon,
> 
> On 06/07/2021 14:12, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 wrote:
>> one of the photographs shows her operating the Emitron camera! 
> I am afraid that it does NOT show her operating a camera!
> 
> There are three clues to that...
> 
> 1.  There are headphones above her head which are those worn by the cameraperson - almost certainly a cameraman!!
> 
> <earphones.jpg>
> 
> I have cut the lady out of the picture to make it clearer!  With the person cut form the camera, you should be able to trace the lines of the Emitron as the protruding downward front of the camera can be clearly seen.  The lady is close to the camera, admittedly.
> 
> 
> 
> 2,  Cutting the lady out of the picture shows clearly that we are seeing the back of her head.  Her head is positioned some 60 to 90 degrees clockwise from what it should be if she was operating the camera. She may well be watching the character which is the subject of the shot: the positioning is roughly correct for that.
> 
> 
> 
> <back view of lady.jpg>
> 
> 
> 3.  In the pictures I have seem of Emitrons, there are no controls in the area that the lady's hand is located - and in any case, her right hand would be on the panning handle for an Emitron!
> 
> 
> 
> <emitron only_.jpg>
> 
> 
> 
> - but I guess that there may be other pictures in the AP TS archives which may show controls in those areas!!!
> 
> -----
> 
> There is another line of enquiry.  From the hand of the lady in question, there seems to be a cable dropping down to the ground.  That could be a clue!
> 
> -----
> 
> These pictures have been grabbed very quickly - baby granddaughter is having a nap - so perhaps someone with more time and better tools can do a decent parse of the pictures!
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that this is of interest,
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Alec
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> =======
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> 
> Mob:  07789 561 346
> Tel:  0118 981 7502
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Jul  6 10:24:01 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 16:24:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <d1082456-67dc-df53-ac4e-77e9c1593cac@gmail.com>
References: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk>
	<d1082456-67dc-df53-ac4e-77e9c1593cac@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1B8D56A2-125D-416E-807E-AC7BCDE86A8D@icloud.com>

Looking at the other picure where she is standing extreme right, the FM can clearly seen nearer centre wearing long-lead cans, I bet she is paging his cable round the camera.
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 6 Jul 2021, at 16:11, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi Simon,
> 
> On 06/07/2021 14:12, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 wrote:
>> one of the photographs shows her operating the Emitron camera! 
> I am afraid that it does NOT show her operating a camera!
> 
> There are three clues to that...
> 
> 1.  There are headphones above her head which are those worn by the cameraperson - almost certainly a cameraman!!
> 
> <earphones.jpg>
> 
> I have cut the lady out of the picture to make it clearer!  With the person cut form the camera, you should be able to trace the lines of the Emitron as the protruding downward front of the camera can be clearly seen.  The lady is close to the camera, admittedly.
> 
> 
> 
> 2,  Cutting the lady out of the picture shows clearly that we are seeing the back of her head.  Her head is positioned some 60 to 90 degrees clockwise from what it should be if she was operating the camera. She may well be watching the character which is the subject of the shot: the positioning is roughly correct for that.
> 
> 
> 
> <back view of lady.jpg>
> 
> 
> 3.  In the pictures I have seem of Emitrons, there are no controls in the area that the lady's hand is located - and in any case, her right hand would be on the panning handle for an Emitron!
> 
> 
> 
> <emitron only_.jpg>
> 
> 
> 
> - but I guess that there may be other pictures in the AP TS archives which may show controls in those areas!!!
> 
> -----
> 
> There is another line of enquiry.  From the hand of the lady in question, there seems to be a cable dropping down to the ground.  That could be a clue!
> 
> -----
> 
> These pictures have been grabbed very quickly - baby granddaughter is having a nap - so perhaps someone with more time and better tools can do a decent parse of the pictures!
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that this is of interest,
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Alec
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> =======
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> 
> Mob:  07789 561 346
> Tel:  0118 981 7502
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Tue Jul  6 10:39:29 2021
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 16:39:29 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <182C4AEE-1430-44D0-BA8F-B59494EA622C@icloud.com>
References: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk>
	<d1082456-67dc-df53-ac4e-77e9c1593cac@gmail.com>
	<182C4AEE-1430-44D0-BA8F-B59494EA622C@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <3de46c35-c11d-15f6-13e4-cdd2ccddd9ab@gmail.com>

Hi Graeme,

On 06/07/2021 16:20, Graeme Wall wrote:
> the lens hood above her hand

Now, that? "lens hood" has me vexed, because -? I have never seen a 
picture of an original Emitron (with the long neck out of the front 
bottom) with any sort of lens hood!!!? I keep looking at it and can see 
where the "bend" lines could be, but the angles seem a bit strange!

I like your idea that the FM had a cable-basher!?? But the cable that 
goes from her hand to the left terminates at the end of the lens hood!

Very best regards,

Alec


-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502

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From dudley.darby at gmail.com  Tue Jul  6 10:41:19 2021
From: dudley.darby at gmail.com (Dudley Darby)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 16:41:19 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <182C4AEE-1430-44D0-BA8F-B59494EA622C@icloud.com>
References: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk><d1082456-67dc-df53-ac4e-77e9c1593cac@gmail.com>
	<182C4AEE-1430-44D0-BA8F-B59494EA622C@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <39016F761C2B4BAC9B2EA7641017AA54@DarbydPC1>

Yes, it would, this is long before  radio talkback

My initial thought was that the lady in question resembles a young Rachel
Blayney, I know she was at AP, and age would be about right, but not sure
what she did at AP. She was vision mixing in 1963 in the Grove and TV
Centre. She always previewed the next camera on the preview bank of the
vision mixer even in the Centre with the BBC mixer which meant you always
heard a double cut over talkback, confusing on a fast sequence!

Regards

Dudley

Dudley C. Darby
Phone: +44 1795 536723
Mobile: +44 780 372 4696
Email: Dudley.Darby at gmail.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of Graeme Wall
via Tech1
Sent: 06 July 2021 16:20
To: Alec Bray
Cc: Tech ops
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
camerawoman?

Hi Alex, that cable puzzled me as well as it appears to be coming from the
lens hood above her hand but no indication of why it is there. Would she
have been on long-lead cans and was lifting it over the camera?
- 
Graeme Wall


> On 6 Jul 2021, at 16:11, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi Simon,
> 
> On 06/07/2021 14:12, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 wrote:
>> one of the photographs shows her operating the Emitron camera! 
> I am afraid that it does NOT show her operating a camera!
> 
> There are three clues to that...
> 
> 1.  There are headphones above her head which are those worn by the
cameraperson - almost certainly a cameraman!!
> 
> <earphones.jpg>
> 
> I have cut the lady out of the picture to make it clearer!  With the
person cut form the camera, you should be able to trace the lines of the
Emitron as the protruding downward front of the camera can be clearly seen.
The lady is close to the camera, admittedly.
> 
> 
> 
> 2,  Cutting the lady out of the picture shows clearly that we are seeing
the back of her head.  Her head is positioned some 60 to 90 degrees
clockwise from what it should be if she was operating the camera. She may
well be watching the character which is the subject of the shot: the
positioning is roughly correct for that.
> 
> 
> 
> <back view of lady.jpg>
> 
> 
> 3.  In the pictures I have seem of Emitrons, there are no controls in the
area that the lady's hand is located - and in any case, her right hand would
be on the panning handle for an Emitron!
> 
> 
> 
> <emitron only_.jpg>
> 
> 
> 
> - but I guess that there may be other pictures in the AP TS archives which
may show controls in those areas!!!
> 
> -----
> 
> There is another line of enquiry.  From the hand of the lady in question,
there seems to be a cable dropping down to the ground.  That could be a
clue!
> 
> -----
> 
> These pictures have been grabbed very quickly - baby granddaughter is
having a nap - so perhaps someone with more time and better tools can do a
decent parse of the pictures!
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that this is of interest,
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Alec
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> =======
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> 
> Mob:  07789 561 346
> Tel:  0118 981 7502
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Jul  6 10:45:40 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 16:45:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <3de46c35-c11d-15f6-13e4-cdd2ccddd9ab@gmail.com>
References: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk>
	<d1082456-67dc-df53-ac4e-77e9c1593cac@gmail.com>
	<182C4AEE-1430-44D0-BA8F-B59494EA622C@icloud.com>
	<3de46c35-c11d-15f6-13e4-cdd2ccddd9ab@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E50451F1-7E96-4E0C-BCD3-6C77A7A26111@icloud.com>

It is something to the right of the camera, too small to be a monitor at that time I woud guess, could it be a shrouded cue light for the actor or even a speaker for the music track?
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 6 Jul 2021, at 16:39, Alec Bray <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Graeme,
> 
> On 06/07/2021 16:20, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> the lens hood above her hand
> Now, that  "lens hood" has me vexed, because -  I have never seen a picture of an original Emitron (with the long neck out of the front bottom) with any sort of lens hood!!!  I keep looking at it and can see where the "bend" lines could be, but the angles seem a bit strange!  
> 
> I like your idea that the FM had a cable-basher!   But the cable that goes from her hand to the left terminates at the end of the lens hood!
> 
> Very best regards, 
> 
> Alec
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> =======
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> 
> Mob:  07789 561 346
> Tel:  0118 981 7502
> 



From peter.neill at icloud.com  Tue Jul  6 11:49:35 2021
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 17:49:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <182C4AEE-1430-44D0-BA8F-B59494EA622C@icloud.com>
References: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk>
	<d1082456-67dc-df53-ac4e-77e9c1593cac@gmail.com>
	<182C4AEE-1430-44D0-BA8F-B59494EA622C@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <98FE8CF5-C2D4-40B6-8060-EAFF7D39E5E6@icloud.com>

Prompt Cut?


Peter Neill


> On 6 Jul 2021, at 16:20, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi Alex, that cable puzzled me as well as it appears to be coming from the lens hood above her hand but no indication of why it is there. Would she have been on long-lead cans and was lifting it over the camera?
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
>> On 6 Jul 2021, at 16:11, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Simon,
>> 
>> On 06/07/2021 14:12, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 wrote:
>>> one of the photographs shows her operating the Emitron camera! 
>> I am afraid that it does NOT show her operating a camera!
>> 
>> There are three clues to that...
>> 
>> 1.  There are headphones above her head which are those worn by the cameraperson - almost certainly a cameraman!!
>> 
>> <earphones.jpg>
>> 
>> I have cut the lady out of the picture to make it clearer!  With the person cut form the camera, you should be able to trace the lines of the Emitron as the protruding downward front of the camera can be clearly seen.  The lady is close to the camera, admittedly.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 2,  Cutting the lady out of the picture shows clearly that we are seeing the back of her head.  Her head is positioned some 60 to 90 degrees clockwise from what it should be if she was operating the camera. She may well be watching the character which is the subject of the shot: the positioning is roughly correct for that.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <back view of lady.jpg>
>> 
>> 
>> 3.  In the pictures I have seem of Emitrons, there are no controls in the area that the lady's hand is located - and in any case, her right hand would be on the panning handle for an Emitron!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <emitron only_.jpg>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> - but I guess that there may be other pictures in the AP TS archives which may show controls in those areas!!!
>> 
>> -----
>> 
>> There is another line of enquiry.  From the hand of the lady in question, there seems to be a cable dropping down to the ground.  That could be a clue!
>> 
>> -----
>> 
>> These pictures have been grabbed very quickly - baby granddaughter is having a nap - so perhaps someone with more time and better tools can do a decent parse of the pictures!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hope that this is of interest,
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Alec
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> =======
>> 
>> Alec Bray
>> 
>> 
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> 
>> Mob:  07789 561 346
>> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com  Tue Jul  6 13:16:29 2021
From: simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com (Simon Vaughan)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 19:16:29 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <d1082456-67dc-df53-ac4e-77e9c1593cac@gmail.com>
References: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk>
	<d1082456-67dc-df53-ac4e-77e9c1593cac@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A952006-D73C-4DE3-890D-9A89985D0EB1@gmail.com>

Thank you very much for your thoughts Alex.  
I can add a little more information.  
What looks like a cable running across from the viewfinder to the side of the camera is actually a support rod that ran across the bottom of the lens/viewfinder shroud.  This is shown in the face-on picture of an Emitron from February 1939.  This also shows the focussing control lever was on the viewfinder side of this version of the camera.  The second photo shows the lens/viewfinder shroud and focussing lever, but this version of Emitron lacks the rubberised cameraman?s shroud found around the viewfinder on later models.
The focussing control varied between a knob and/or lever during the Emitron?s various incarnations - and also moved locations from a rod with gears running under the lenses (knob) to a 
Best wishes
Simon

> On 6 Jul 2021, at 16:11, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi Simon,
> 
> On 06/07/2021 14:12, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 wrote:
>> one of the photographs shows her operating the Emitron camera! 
> I am afraid that it does NOT show her operating a camera!
> 
> There are three clues to that...
> 
> 1.  There are headphones above her head which are those worn by the cameraperson - almost certainly a cameraman!!
> 
> <earphones.jpg>
> 
> I have cut the lady out of the picture to make it clearer!  With the person cut form the camera, you should be able to trace the lines of the Emitron as the protruding downward front of the camera can be clearly seen.  The lady is close to the camera, admittedly.
> 
> 
> 
> 2,  Cutting the lady out of the picture shows clearly that we are seeing the back of her head.  Her head is positioned some 60 to 90 degrees clockwise from what it should be if she was operating the camera. She may well be watching the character which is the subject of the shot: the positioning is roughly correct for that.
> 
> 
> 
> <back view of lady.jpg>
> 
> 
> 3.  In the pictures I have seem of Emitrons, there are no controls in the area that the lady's hand is located - and in any case, her right hand would be on the panning handle for an Emitron!
> 
> 
> 
> <emitron only_.jpg>
> 
> 
> 
> - but I guess that there may be other pictures in the AP TS archives which may show controls in those areas!!!
> 
> -----
> 
> There is another line of enquiry.  From the hand of the lady in question, there seems to be a cable dropping down to the ground.  That could be a clue!
> 
> -----
> 
> These pictures have been grabbed very quickly - baby granddaughter is having a nap - so perhaps someone with more time and better tools can do a decent parse of the pictures!
> 
> 
> 
> Hope that this is of interest,
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Alec
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> =======
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com <mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
> Mob:  07789 561 346
> Tel:  0118 981 7502
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From techtone at protonmail.com  Tue Jul  6 15:10:01 2021
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 20:10:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Mother
In-Reply-To: <BAEF1B55-0EF8-42E4-B796-29D7E326DD0A@gmail.com>
References: <60e40f7d.1c69fb81.b5dfd.e3e2@mx.google.com>
	<BAEF1B55-0EF8-42E4-B796-29D7E326DD0A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <jRhXgcTN0VD_4fn5mAiKBMmkudVhwsa5B5ScM-cs6i_OPw4LP_xLLR3TbO8r1YFAE04BDAmqzNT3EVFeOrSvzenAIA12SNYixRnXMQ6FJTo=@protonmail.com>

I claim the prize for having seen Mother smile! I can't remember the programme, but as FM, Mother worked on many other programmes as well as Current Affairs. On this particular occasion we were doing something in one of the smaller TVC studios, almost certainly TC5, and whilst on a break in rehearsals, the autocue girl had to go to the loo.

Almost immediately the director she exited the studio, the director wanted to continue where we'd left off. 'Just waiting for Autocue,' said Mother. "What's she doing?" shouted the director, who knew that the script was already OK, and didn't need editing.

OK, Joan smiled sweetly (only visible on the floor) and launched into the most vividly graphic description of what a woman does when she goes to the loo. For those of you who knew Mother well, and her background, you can probably guess how well she described every part of the process, not leaving out any intimate detail, liberally interspersed with near profanities about failings often found in ladies conveniences, especially if you were caught short. By the time said Autocue girl (can't remember if it was Sabby or Mary) returned to the studio, almost in time with Mother's conclusion, the whole crew on the floor were helpless with laughter.

'Quiet studio,' roared Mother, 'and cue........' rehearsal back on track.

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.

??????? Original Message ???????
On Tuesday, July 6th, 2021 at 10:34, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Another photo of Mother.
> Geoff F
>
>> On 6 Jul 2021, at 09:08, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Agreed, according to Mother?s obituaries in the Telegraph and Guardian, and in IMDb, she joined the BBC in 1957, ten years after the queried photograph.
>> My Mother story:
>> Panorama
>> Richard D was the ultimate professional, but he had a lovely sense of humour.
>> Fellow technicians will remember Joan Marsden (Floor Manager) known as "Mother" to cast and crew alike, who ran the studio with a rod of iron.
>> One night, to illustrate the number of summonses sent out by one London borough, there was a huge pile of brown envelopes in front of RD's desk. On rehearsal, he leant forward, picked upon the top one, wrote on it, replaced it, and beckoned the camera to focus on it.
>> It read: "To Mother - for Soliciting"
>>
>> Best
>> Pat
>>
>> Sent from[Mail](https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986)for Windows 10
>>
>> From:[Bill Jenkin via Tech1](mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk)
>> Sent:06 July 2021 08:50
>> To:[co. uk email group](mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk)
>> Subject:Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
>>
>> Whoever the FM is in the original photo from APTS it isn?t Mother. Apart from anything else I can?t imagine Joan Marsden ever wearing a dress like that.
>> Also I think this photo must date from possibly before or just after the war (that looks like the side of an Emitron camera) and Joan didn?t join the BBC until after she had been a stage manager in the West End which she did after the war so I think the timing is all wrong.
>> Of course it definitely is her in the other photo with David Dimbleby.
>> Bill J
>>
>> From:Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk]On Behalf OfDavid Newbitt via Tech1
>> Sent:05 July 2021 19:11
>> To:John Ade; Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1
>> Cc:dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
>> Subject:Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
>>
>> I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!
>>
>> Dave Newbitt
>>
>> Sent from[Mail](https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986)for Windows 10
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> [Avast logo](https://www.avast.com/antivirus)
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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From techtone at protonmail.com  Tue Jul  6 15:25:56 2021
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 20:25:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wimbledon
Message-ID: <h4y4lrNdDE0oRFaHaWo_VksD1-mLfeJW4BcZXZhbhJBTWoHUqkwMvK0UP59-ndXwwBifenXYDvy8yjNK0vt5vq8SWYY25kJQTDvIGj4PSY8=@protonmail.com>

Sorry if I've already told you my favourite experiences at Wimbledon (a la Pat, oops, another uncalled for slur on his reputation, where are my manners?) but in my first year there, I was on the camera behind and to one side of the umpire's chair on Centre Court when Martina won the single's title for the first time. To say she was over the moon hardly describes her euphoria. I framed up an MCU of her and leaned round the camera and waved to her and she smiled rapturously back at me and waved frantically. 'Cut to four, CUT TO FOUR!' I yelled over talkback, but all in the scanner had relaxed after the match, and were paying no attention to pictures from the court. I could hear the PA saying, 'I think four's trying to get your attention,' but far too late. Just one of those unrepeatable shots the world never got to see.

Either that same year, or the next, I had a very pleasurable experience on the old Court 1 during the break between matches. Two young ladies in the seats beside my camera position started chatting to me about the job, and feeding me strawberries and cream to keep me sweet and rambling on (as if that were necessary!).

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Jul  6 15:40:27 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 21:40:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Wimbledon
In-Reply-To: <h4y4lrNdDE0oRFaHaWo_VksD1-mLfeJW4BcZXZhbhJBTWoHUqkwMvK0UP59-ndXwwBifenXYDvy8yjNK0vt5vq8SWYY25kJQTDvIGj4PSY8=@protonmail.com>
References: <h4y4lrNdDE0oRFaHaWo_VksD1-mLfeJW4BcZXZhbhJBTWoHUqkwMvK0UP59-ndXwwBifenXYDvy8yjNK0vt5vq8SWYY25kJQTDvIGj4PSY8=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <60e4bfba.1c69fb81.9f4b7.2541@mx.google.com>

I have to have a moan about yesterday?s coverage.
However was responsible for deciding what went to network
should be shot!
Trying to watch the Federer match, BBC 1 was hijacked by Boris, (OK #10 beats Wimbledon, I guess), BBC2 was showing a ladies match.
Eventually found Federer via Red button, then BBC iPlayer, then Sport, then the court, but no clue broadcast to assist.
Then, today, the Medvedev match which was suspended last night, I expected to be resumed on Centre Court.
This was only live on the aforementioned i-player route.
BBC1 was running it from the start ? great, unless one had seen the previous evening.
I much preferred the old red button menu for finding the court to watch.

Bah!
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: techtone via Tech1
Sent: 06 July 2021 21:26
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: [Tech1] Wimbledon

Sorry if I've already told you my favourite experiences at Wimbledon (a la Pat, oops, another uncalled for slur on his reputation, where are my manners?) but in my first year there, I was on the camera behind and to one side of the umpire's chair on Centre Court when Martina won the single's title for the first time. To say she was over the moon hardly describes her euphoria. I framed up an MCU of her and leaned round the camera and waved to her and she smiled rapturously back at me and waved frantically. 'Cut to four, CUT TO FOUR!' I yelled over talkback, but all in the scanner had relaxed after the match, and were paying no attention to pictures from the court. I could hear the PA saying, 'I think four's trying to get your attention,' but far too late. Just one of those unrepeatable shots the world never got to see.

Either that same year, or the next, I had a very pleasurable experience on the old Court 1 during the break between matches. Two young ladies in the seats beside my camera position started chatting to me about the job, and feeding me strawberries and cream to keep me sweet and rambling on (as if that were necessary!).

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.




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From waresound at msn.com  Tue Jul  6 16:09:22 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 21:09:22 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB198147342EE3F568ADD47B8CA71B9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

If it?s not a ridiculous suggestion, could it possibly be a young Denise Daveluy (correct spelling?)? I?ve no idea how old she would have been when I knew her, but roundish head shape looks a possibility.
I?m also confident it wasn?t Mother. Last time I saw her, she was thoroughly enjoying being a volunteer usherette at Hammersmith Theatre. Pantomime jollity was clear to see, and she made a big fuss of finding better seats for us.

Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Jul  6 16:27:57 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 22:27:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Commercials story
Message-ID: <60e4cadd.1c69fb81.4086d.1fc8@mx.google.com>

I enjoyed working on commercials, as the rates could be inflated because the agency took a percentage of what the shoot cost, so the more it cost, the better for them!

A Silvikrin ad, shot in a studio in West London.
There were already three versions of dialogue, to get past the Advertising Standards Authority.
There were 7 guys from the client , for a day out of the office, who all had a oar to put in, so suddenly, there were 21 different versions to shoot.
Lunch was called, and the First said: ?Back at two, guys ? on the dot!? We complied, and the director, knowing that the client people had gone for a long boozy lunch, locked the doors, put on the red light, and didn?t let them in for an hour and a half, by which time the stuff had been shot!
Not a peep from the client guys!

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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From martindilly20 at gmail.com  Tue Jul  6 16:29:10 2021
From: martindilly20 at gmail.com (Martin Dilly)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 22:29:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
Message-ID: <CACqT+7OSD1g+CzBO3qkOJyiDnYyYEHVeYPc=ZUhcsoEzbYf_Qw@mail.gmail.com>

How about Paddy Russell, often FM for Cartier epics? She'd have been
forty-ish in the early 1960s

Martin
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From mibridge at mac.com  Tue Jul  6 16:53:35 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 22:53:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Mother
In-Reply-To: <jRhXgcTN0VD_4fn5mAiKBMmkudVhwsa5B5ScM-cs6i_OPw4LP_xLLR3TbO8r1YFAE04BDAmqzNT3EVFeOrSvzenAIA12SNYixRnXMQ6FJTo=@protonmail.com>
References: <jRhXgcTN0VD_4fn5mAiKBMmkudVhwsa5B5ScM-cs6i_OPw4LP_xLLR3TbO8r1YFAE04BDAmqzNT3EVFeOrSvzenAIA12SNYixRnXMQ6FJTo=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <470159A2-1E0E-4745-B936-7C793BD62170@mac.com>

Oh I saw Mother smile too!  We did some rehearsals for something like the 1984 election (was there one that year?) in one or other of the conference rooms, which involved all the computer whizz-bangs with David and his experts, the director, producer, editor, vision mixer and me all in the same room, with quarter inch tapes started at a nominal zero hour with all the likely results occurring at pre-determined times and I chose lots of humorous bits of music to fill in the otherwise silent interludes - lots of Spike Jones, for example (my brief from the editor, Richard Tait was to try to keep everyone one awake when nothing much was happening. Mother appeared from time to time and David would give her notes about what he would need on the night. So Mother was there when we reached the end of the run-through, when I played Peter Cooke and Dudley Moore singing ?Good bye-ee? which actually got Mother in hysterics. The exercise certainly brought the team together and it was laughter that provided the best cement - that and the fact that the computer graphics worked well!

Speaking of Richard Tait, it always surprises me that parents don?t think about contractions when choosing first names to go with their surname. And then of course there was the TVC PBX Supervisor, Joyce, who married to gain the surname Dick!

Mike G

> On 6 Jul 2021, at 21:10, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I claim the prize for having seen Mother smile! I can't remember the programme, but as FM, Mother worked on many other programmes as well as Current Affairs. On this particular occasion we were doing something in one of the smaller TVC studios, almost certainly TC5, and whilst on a break in rehearsals, the autocue girl had to go to the loo.
> 
> Almost immediately the director she exited the studio, the director wanted to continue where we'd left off. 'Just waiting for Autocue,' said Mother. "What's she doing?" shouted the director, who knew that the script was already OK, and didn't need editing.
> 
> OK, Joan smiled sweetly (only visible on the floor) and launched into the most vividly graphic description of what a woman does when she goes to the loo. For those of you who knew Mother well, and her background, you can probably guess how well she described every part of the process, not leaving out any intimate detail, liberally interspersed with near profanities about failings often found in ladies conveniences, especially if you were caught short. By the time said Autocue girl (can't remember if it was Sabby or Mary) returned to the studio, almost in time with Mother's conclusion, the whole crew on the floor were helpless with laughter.
> 
> 'Quiet studio,' roared Mother, 'and cue........' rehearsal back on track.
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> 
> ??????? Original Message ???????
>> On Tuesday, July 6th, 2021 at 10:34, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Another photo of Mother.
>> Geoff F
>> <unnamed.png>
>> 
>> 
>>> On 6 Jul 2021, at 09:08, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Agreed, according to Mother?s obituaries in the Telegraph and Guardian, and in IMDb, she joined the BBC in 1957, ten years after the queried photograph.
>>> My Mother story:
>>> Panorama
>>> Richard D was the ultimate professional, but he had a lovely sense of humour.
>>> Fellow technicians will remember Joan Marsden (Floor Manager) known as "Mother" to cast and crew alike, who ran the studio with a rod of iron.
>>> One night, to illustrate the number of summonses sent out by one London borough, there was a huge pile of brown envelopes in front of RD's desk. On rehearsal, he leant forward, picked upon the top one, wrote on it, replaced it, and beckoned the camera to focus on it.
>>> It read: "To Mother - for Soliciting"
>>>  
>>> Best
>>> Pat
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>  
>>> From: Bill Jenkin via Tech1
>>> Sent: 06 July 2021 08:50
>>> To: co. uk email group
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
>>>  
>>> Whoever the FM is in the original photo from APTS it isn?t Mother. Apart from anything else I can?t imagine Joan Marsden ever wearing a dress like that. 
>>> Also I think this photo must date from possibly before or just after the war (that looks like the side of an Emitron camera) and Joan didn?t join the BBC until after she had been a stage manager in the West End which she did after the war so I think the timing is all wrong.
>>> Of course it definitely is her in the other photo with David Dimbleby.
>>> Bill J
>>>  
>>> From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of David Newbitt via Tech1
>>> Sent: 05 July 2021 19:11
>>> To: John Ade; Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1
>>> Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> I?ve had a message from Clive Leighton saying it?s definitely Mother and one from Ravenscourt (??) categorically saying it?s not. Oh dear!
>>>  
>>> Dave Newbitt
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 	
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From mibridge at mac.com  Tue Jul  6 17:10:32 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 23:10:32 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] FW: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith
Message-ID: <DC60948A-FFE8-4F93-9711-77B91BB2ED6F@mac.com>

?
The unnamed moustachioed gent in the front row, 3rd from the left, is surely Dave Silk. 

Mike G

> On 6 Jul 2021, at 10:00, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?
> Second attempt to send.
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: patheigham
> Sent: 06 July 2021 09:56
> To: Bernard Newnham; tech1 at tech-ops
> Subject: RE: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith
>  
> Very sorry to hear that news.
> If it was the same Frank who was on TO course 13, March 1962, then here?s a pic attached.
> Also a story:
> BBC Evesham Club
> The BBC Training establishment just outside Evesham kept a large house in the town as a leisure club for attendees.
> One night in the bar, Reg, the Steward was trying to get us to participate in a stunt. He bet us that we could not tip a coin balanced on the forehead into a funnel tucked into the waistband of trousers. Frank, who was a tad older than the rest of us and more savvy (National Service?) played dim and pretended not to understand the setup. Frustrated, and to demonstrate, Reg tucked the funnel into his waistband, whereupon, Frank at the speed of greased lightning, tipped his pint into the funnel! The look on Reg?s face as he realised he?d been caught with his own gag, was worth the cost of the laundry and another round!
>  
> Pat
>  
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject:            Frank Smith
> Date:    Mon, 5 Jul 2021 19:12:38 +0100
> From:   Appletrees iMap <appletrees at btinternet.com>
> To:        TVNET Group Email <TVNET at television-network.uk>
>  
>  
>  
> Well you know what it means when you see a name in the subject line.
> Katie contacted me today, and Frank died peacefully yesterday at 6pm. He
> was in a nursing home in Dursley, and had been there for 3? weeks,
> starting with two weeks to give Katie some respite, but stayed on as his
> health deteriorated.
> I will let you all know about funeral arrangements when they are known.
>  
> Oh dear?
>  
> Nigel
>  
>  
> 
> <1F7D03FD3EFE4FA6B82C8FB3DB4311A2.png>
> 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> 
>  
> <1F7D03FD3EFE4FA6B82C8FB3DB4311A2.png>
> <TO Course 03-62.doc>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Wed Jul  7 04:00:16 2021
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 10:00:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <4A952006-D73C-4DE3-890D-9A89985D0EB1@gmail.com>
References: <9E4BBC8E-8746-4FCB-B620-50B247B7765F@apts.org.uk>
	<d1082456-67dc-df53-ac4e-77e9c1593cac@gmail.com>
	<4A952006-D73C-4DE3-890D-9A89985D0EB1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54723def-388f-f772-5c3b-5b34b58f75c6@gmail.com>

Hi Simon,

Thank you very much for the photos of the Emitron Cameras! Thanks, too, 
for the explanation of the horizontal "bar". As I mentioned, I had not 
seen any photos of the original Emitrons with lens hoods - that front-on 
view is an interesting photo in its own right.? And I certainly did not 
release how many different "design iterations" there were for those 
early Emitrons? and I can see why you thought that she might be 
operating the camera!!

I have had another go at photo-manipulation.? The vertical cable seems 
to come from the bottom of the camera (viewfinder) and not from the 
lady's hand.

The lady is wearing a bangle or a bangle which incorporates a wristwatch 
- it is clearer in some manipulations as to how the light is reflected.

Do we see the face of the watch in the photo where the lady is barely seen?


Anyway, it seems that the lady in question is doing? "something" with 
something near to or attached to the camera:? it seems to be a smallish 
knob.or cylindrical object, perhaps mounted on a rectangular plinth 
sticking out from the side of the camera - tricky to see in the shadows.



I hope that this is of interest!? I have reached the limit of what I can 
do to separate out the grey scale at this area.

A very intriguing picture, Simon - and with your photos of original 
Emitrons in various configurations you may be able to say what the lady 
is doing!

-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502

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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Wed Jul  7 04:16:08 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 10:16:08 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <54723def-388f-f772-5c3b-5b34b58f75c6@gmail.com>
References: <54723def-388f-f772-5c3b-5b34b58f75c6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A8FAC0EA-35CE-44C0-9FF2-7C26E2C2B078@icloud.com>

I still think she is actually cueing the artist from near the camera, the fact she appears to be looking behind the camera maybe because she is relaying a cue from the FM as she is not on cans.

Graeme Wall

> On 7 Jul 2021, at 10:00, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hi Simon,
> 
> Thank you very much for the photos of the Emitron Cameras!  Thanks, too, for the explanation of the horizontal "bar". As I mentioned, I had not seen any photos of the original Emitrons with lens hoods - that front-on view is an interesting photo in its own right.  And I certainly did not release how many different "design iterations" there were for those early Emitrons  and I can see why you thought that she might be operating the camera!!
> 
> I have had another go at photo-manipulation.  The vertical cable seems to come from the bottom of the camera (viewfinder) and not from the lady's hand.
> 
> <bkckabkcfpkiccad.png>
> 
> The lady is wearing a bangle or a bangle which incorporates a wristwatch - it is clearer in some manipulations as to how the light is reflected.
> 
> <hnhdmgfobgfngmji.png>
>       
> <mdmacoiaikhdjano.png>
>    
> 
> Do we see the face of the watch in the photo where the lady is barely seen?
> 
> <kokcbdifjcmjdead.png>
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, it seems that the lady in question is doing  "something" with something near to or attached to the camera:  it seems to be a smallish knob.or cylindrical object, perhaps mounted on a rectangular plinth sticking out from the side of the camera - tricky to see in the shadows.
> 
> 
> 
> <lckflnoeldapolho.png>
> 
> 
> 
> I hope that this is of interest!  I have reached the limit of what I can do to separate out the grey scale at this area.
> 
> A very intriguing picture, Simon - and with your photos of original Emitrons in various configurations you may be able to say what the lady is doing!
> 
> -- 
> =======
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> Mob:  07789 561 346
> Tel:  0118 981 7502
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Jul  7 04:46:13 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 10:46:13 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <A8FAC0EA-35CE-44C0-9FF2-7C26E2C2B078@icloud.com>
References: <A8FAC0EA-35CE-44C0-9FF2-7C26E2C2B078@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <8DB92053-A85D-4D39-9290-6E624954D663@me.com>

There have been a number of interesting suggestions about what her role might be.  The suggestion which I find most convincing is that she was the prompt girl.

I?ve come across mentions of prompters in old accounts of studio working arrangements in AP. They had a button which mutes the audio so that they can prompt the actor without the viewer hearing. It would make sense that the prompter positions themselves close to the camera so that they are almost in the actor?s eye-line. It would be comparable to how it was done in some theatres at that time and we know that 1940s television drama techniques were closely modelled on theatre techniques. My only reservation about this suggestion is that I don?t recall seeing her holding a script in any of the pictures.  Unfortunately I deleted earlier posts in this thread and can no longer refer to previous images.  

I haven?t found any mention of the mechanics of what the prompt switch looked like or how it was plumbed into the sound chain.  I?ve found circuit diagrams and schematics  of the sound desks used in the early days of AP, but have not noticed any obvious remote mute facility.  One possibility would be that the prompt switch mutes the microphone before it reaches the sound mixer.  

Does anybody know how prompting was actually carried out? Do you think she?s the prompter?

Alan Taylor

>> Anyway, it seems that the lady in question is doing  "something" with something near to or attached to the camera:  it seems to be a smallish knob.or cylindrical object, perhaps mounted on a rectangular plinth sticking out from the side of the camera - tricky to see in the shadows.
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Wed Jul  7 05:27:46 2021
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 11:27:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <A8FAC0EA-35CE-44C0-9FF2-7C26E2C2B078@icloud.com>
References: <54723def-388f-f772-5c3b-5b34b58f75c6@gmail.com>
	<A8FAC0EA-35CE-44C0-9FF2-7C26E2C2B078@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <97ee07ac-9b21-a969-b437-875ab9c99caf@gmail.com>

Hi all,


On 07/07/2021 10:16, Graeme Wall wrote:
> I still think she is actually cueing the artist from near the camera, 
> the fact she appears to be looking behind the camera maybe because she 
> is relaying a cue from the FM as she is not on cans.


Having had a break - unloading the grocery delivery! - I am going to 
fully agree with Graeme!!? Her hand is in a very natural position for 
cuing and you can see the other fingers of her hand in a similar 
position to the staged photo.


I'm still bemused by the highlight around her index finger!!! Intriguing 
to those who are intrigued by it ....


-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502

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From jccglass at gmail.com  Wed Jul  7 05:56:38 2021
From: jccglass at gmail.com (Chris on gmail)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 11:56:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
References: <54723def-388f-f772-5c3b-5b34b58f75c6@gmail.com><A8FAC0EA-35CE-44C0-9FF2-7C26E2C2B078@icloud.com>
	<97ee07ac-9b21-a969-b437-875ab9c99caf@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <170D902411124745B00A1001E7B3972F@dell9100>

Tricky thing vision- we see what we expect

i see it as hand with a rolled up script

chris
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Wed Jul  7 06:02:27 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 12:02:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman?
In-Reply-To: <170D902411124745B00A1001E7B3972F@dell9100>
References: <170D902411124745B00A1001E7B3972F@dell9100>
Message-ID: <61F3D92F-F0AF-44F2-A4A9-F07AEB056200@icloud.com>

Looks very likely

Graeme Wall

> On 7 Jul 2021, at 11:57, Chris on gmail via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Tricky thing vision- we see what we expect
> 
> i see it as hand with a rolled up script
> 
> chris
> <cue hand.jpg>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From phider at gmx.com  Thu Jul  8 00:00:13 2021
From: phider at gmx.com (phider)
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 06:00:13 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] FW: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith
In-Reply-To: <DC60948A-FFE8-4F93-9711-77B91BB2ED6F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1MIMbU-1lvu6E0fIq-00EPfm@mail.gmx.net>

I was on TO13 with Pat and Frank and? I think I can fill in the gaps on Pat's list of names.The guy between Pat and Ian Perry was Dave Palmer. He left Tech Ops after returning to TVC and upsetting numerous people including a gram op who had preset a disc for play-in. Dave decided that the deck was a convenient place to lean on and sent the stylus skating across the disc.On the left of the front row was Mike Williams. A very quiet unassuming man but a brilliant pianist. He was part of a classical trio with Frank Smith on clarinet and Julian Imray on, I think,? bassoon or oboe.??Next to him is Paul Salinger who owned a magnificently large convertible MG. I believe he went to Israel and died very young.Third on the front row is Chris Glass and the missing one next Frank is John Ward with whom Frank and I shared accommodation.I never heard of him again after Evesham but Frank remained one of my dearest friends until the end. R.I.P.Peter HiderSent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 06/07/2021  23:11  (GMT+00:00) To: Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Tech1] FW: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith ?The unnamed moustachioed gent in the front row, 3rd from the left, is surely Dave Silk.?Mike GOn 6 Jul 2021, at 10:00, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:?<!--
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-->Second attempt to send.?Sent from Mail for Windows 10?From: patheighamSent: 06 July 2021 09:56To: Bernard Newnham; tech1 at tech-opsSubject: RE: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith?Very sorry to hear that news.If it was the same Frank who was on TO course 13, March 1962, then here?s a pic attached.Also a story:BBC Evesham ClubThe BBC Training establishment just outside Evesham kept a large house in the town as a leisure club for attendees.One night in the bar, Reg, the Steward was trying to get us to participate in a stunt. He bet us that we could not tip a coin balanced on the forehead into a funnel tucked into the waistband of trousers. Frank, who was a tad older than the rest of us and more savvy (National Service?) played dim and pretended not to understand the setup. Frustrated, and to demonstrate, Reg tucked the funnel into his waistband, whereupon, Frank at the speed of greased lightning, tipped his pint into the funnel! The look on Reg?s face as he realised he?d been caught with his own gag, was worth the cost of the laundry and another round!?Pat???Sent from Mail for Windows 10?-------- Forwarded Message --------Subject: ?????????? Frank SmithDate: ?? Mon, 5 Jul 2021 19:12:38 +0100From: ? Appletrees iMap <appletrees at btinternet.com>To: ?????? TVNET Group Email <TVNET at television-network.uk>???Well you know what it means when you see a name in the subject line.Katie contacted me today, and Frank died peacefully yesterday at 6pm. He was in a nursing home in Dursley, and had been there for 3? weeks, starting with two weeks to give Katie some respite, but stayed on as his health deteriorated.I will let you all know about funeral arrangements when they are known.?Oh dear??Nigel??<1F7D03FD3EFE4FA6B82C8FB3DB4311A2.png>This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com ?<1F7D03FD3EFE4FA6B82C8FB3DB4311A2.png><TO Course 03-62.doc>-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jul  8 03:18:17 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 09:18:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] FW: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith
In-Reply-To: <1MIMbU-1lvu6E0fIq-00EPfm@mail.gmx.net>
References: <DC60948A-FFE8-4F93-9711-77B91BB2ED6F@mac.com>
	<1MIMbU-1lvu6E0fIq-00EPfm@mail.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <60e6b4c8.1c69fb81.8b333.5445@mx.google.com>

Thank you for that, Peter, The roll call is now complete.
Definitely Chris Glass, not Dave Silk who had been on an earlier course ? do you recall the recording he made, having rigged his room to appear that he?d entertained a lady overnight?
I certainly remember Frank playing a mean clarinet and Mike excellent on piano (wish I had a musical talent!). Did you read my reminiscence about the incident with Reg in the Club with the coin and funnel? Quite hysterical!
Hope you are keeping well.
Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: phider via Tech1
Sent: 08 July 2021 06:00
To: Mike Giles; Tech Ops
Subject: Re: [Tech1] FW: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith

I was on TO13 with Pat and Frank and? I think I can fill in the gaps on Pat's list of names.

The guy between Pat and Ian Perry was Dave Palmer. He left Tech Ops after returning to TVC and upsetting numerous people including a gram op who had preset a disc for play-in. Dave decided that the deck was a convenient place to lean on and sent the stylus skating across the disc.
On the left of the front row was Mike Williams. A very quiet unassuming man but a brilliant pianist. He was part of a classical trio with Frank Smith on clarinet and Julian Imray on, I think,? bassoon or oboe.??
Next to him is Paul Salinger who owned a magnificently large convertible MG. I believe he went to Israel and died very young.
Third on the front row is Chris Glass and the missing one next Frank is John Ward with whom Frank and I shared accommodation.
I never heard of him again after Evesham but Frank remained one of my dearest friends until the end. R.I.P.
Peter Hider


Sent from my Galaxy





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From geoffletch at gmail.com  Thu Jul  8 03:26:59 2021
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 09:26:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] FW: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith
In-Reply-To: <60e6b4c8.1c69fb81.8b333.5445@mx.google.com>
References: <DC60948A-FFE8-4F93-9711-77B91BB2ED6F@mac.com>
	<1MIMbU-1lvu6E0fIq-00EPfm@mail.gmx.net>
	<60e6b4c8.1c69fb81.8b333.5445@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <0D3B04A9-B87E-4F96-9245-680D96DFC960@gmail.com>

Hi Pete,

I remember that recording - complete with stings - very funny. We had a copy of itin our flatinEaling - Dave Jorgensen brought it home one evening.
He told me that Dave said had hidden the mic in his guitar leaning up in one corner of his room, and placed various incriminating clues around. The
cleaners arrived first if I recall correctly, then summoned the Major etc. Priceless!. Does anyone have a copy of it still I wonder? 
Geoff F

> On 8 Jul 2021, at 09:18, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Thank you for that, Peter, The roll call is now complete.
> Definitely Chris Glass, not Dave Silk who had been on an earlier course ? do you recall the recording he made, having rigged his room to appear that he?d entertained a lady overnight?
> I certainly remember Frank playing a mean clarinet and Mike excellent on piano (wish I had a musical talent!). Did you read my reminiscence about the incident with Reg in the Club with the coin and funnel? Quite hysterical!
> Hope you are keeping well.
> Best
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
> From: phider via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: 08 July 2021 06:00
> To: Mike Giles <mailto:mibridge at mac.com>; Tech Ops <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] FW: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith
>  
> I was on TO13 with Pat and Frank and  I think I can fill in the gaps on Pat's list of names.
>  
> The guy between Pat and Ian Perry was Dave Palmer. He left Tech Ops after returning to TVC and upsetting numerous people including a gram op who had preset a disc for play-in. Dave decided that the deck was a convenient place to lean on and sent the stylus skating across the disc.
> On the left of the front row was Mike Williams. A very quiet unassuming man but a brilliant pianist. He was part of a classical trio with Frank Smith on clarinet and Julian Imray on, I think,  bassoon or oboe.  
> Next to him is Paul Salinger who owned a magnificently large convertible MG. I believe he went to Israel and died very young.
> Third on the front row is Chris Glass and the missing one next Frank is John Ward with whom Frank and I shared accommodation.
> I never heard of him again after Evesham but Frank remained one of my dearest friends until the end. R.I.P.
> Peter Hider
>  
>  
> Sent from my Galaxy
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
>  <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>  <x-msg://1/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>

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From phider at gmx.com  Thu Jul  8 04:36:59 2021
From: phider at gmx.com (phider)
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2021 10:36:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] FW: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith
In-Reply-To: <oo64ih538kcvjr47en31p0ev.1625733810981@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1N3se2-1l1etY37iq-00zmfW@mail.gmx.net>

Hi PatThank you Pat. My wife and I are remarkably well and are enjoying life. In fact we just had a week's holiday in Northern Ireland which was wonderful. It was a coach trip I'd organised for my tennis club and 34 of us went. The Titanic Experience in Belfast? is amazing.I have 2 x 15ips recordings on big reels of a session we had in the sound studio at Evesham but I have nothing to play them on. Do you have anything Pat to transfer them to MP3s?Sent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: Geoff Fletcher <geoffletch at gmail.com> Date: 08/07/2021  09:27  (GMT+00:00) To: patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> Cc: phider <phider at gmx.com>, mibridge at mac.com, tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] FW: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith Hi Pete,I remember that recording - complete with stings - very funny. We had a copy of itin our flatinEaling - Dave Jorgensen brought it home one evening.He told me that Dave said had hidden the mic in his guitar leaning up in one corner of his room, and placed various incriminating clues around. Thecleaners arrived first if I recall correctly, then summoned the Major etc. Priceless!. Does anyone have a copy of it still I wonder??Geoff FOn 8 Jul 2021, at 09:18, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:Thank you for that, Peter, The roll call is now complete.Definitely Chris Glass, not Dave Silk who had been on an earlier course ? do you recall the recording he made, having rigged his room to appear that he?d entertained a lady overnight?I certainly remember Frank playing a mean clarinet and Mike excellent on piano (wish I had a musical talent!). Did you read my reminiscence about the incident with Reg in the Club with the coin and funnel? Quite hysterical!Hope you are keeping well.BestPat?Sent from?Mail?for Windows 10?From:?phider via Tech1Sent:?08 July 2021 06:00To:?Mike Giles;?Tech OpsSubject:?Re: [Tech1] FW: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith?I was on TO13 with Pat and Frank and? I think I can fill in the gaps on Pat's list of names.?The guy between Pat and Ian Perry was Dave Palmer. He left Tech Ops after returning to TVC and upsetting numerous people including a gram op who had preset a disc for play-in. Dave decided that the deck was a convenient place to lean on and sent the stylus skating across the disc.On the left of the front row was Mike Williams. A very quiet unassuming man but a brilliant pianist. He was part of a classical trio with Frank Smith on clarinet and Julian Imray on, I think,? bassoon or oboe.??Next to him is Paul Salinger who owned a magnificently large convertible MG. I believe he went to Israel and died very young.Third on the front row is Chris Glass and the missing one next Frank is John Ward with whom Frank and I shared accommodation.I never heard of him again after Evesham but Frank remained one of my dearest friends until the end. R.I.P.Peter Hider??Sent from my Galaxy???This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.?www.avast.com--?Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From trevor551 at btinternet.com  Thu Jul  8 04:38:58 2021
From: trevor551 at btinternet.com (Trevor Vaisey)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 10:38:58 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Tech1] Dave Silk
Message-ID: <3699674d.1258c.17a857c127b.Webtop.107@btinternet.com>


Hi Geoff

I remember very well the chaos and confusion caused in the Wood Norton 
admin office when Dave made the recording using a mic hidden in his 
double bass. I have a recording somewhere in the house, but nothing to 
play it on!

Cheers

Trev

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From geoffletch at gmail.com  Thu Jul  8 05:10:17 2021
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 11:10:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dave Silk
In-Reply-To: <3699674d.1258c.17a857c127b.Webtop.107@btinternet.com>
References: <3699674d.1258c.17a857c127b.Webtop.107@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB_8MQK0_whGCeBcGkT_6rUz1NbzFnM6f+eFormVjzfpeQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Trev
Good to hear from you. Not a guitar then - a double bass. No doubt somebody
in the group could transfer your recording to MP3 or something so we could
all enjoy hearing it again. Stay well old mate.
Geoff F

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 at 10:39, Trevor Vaisey via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hi Geoff
>
>
> I remember very well the chaos and confusion caused in the Wood Norton
> admin office when Dave made the recording using a mic hidden in his double
> bass. I have a recording somewhere in the house, but nothing to play it on!
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Trev
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jul  8 05:11:13 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 11:11:13 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dave Silk
In-Reply-To: <3699674d.1258c.17a857c127b.Webtop.107@btinternet.com>
References: <3699674d.1258c.17a857c127b.Webtop.107@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <60e6cf40.1c69fb81.77ac.7e5c@mx.google.com>

Yes, as I recall, it was a D24 or 109 in the bridge of his double bass, left for a long time to establish, with a Revox in the cupboard, with 10? spools running at slow speed. He had rigged the room, with curtains still drawn, a red bulb in the room light, a lipsticked fag-end in an ashtray, and blonde hairs on the pillow. A beautifully organized spoof!
The caretaker, summoned by the cleaning ladies, remarked that, yes, it did look like he?d had a bird in there, ?And bloody good luck to him!?
Trevor ? if you can unearth the copy, I or Mike McCarthy could play it to a CD, perhaps.
Get in touch if you find it. Mike has a super audio suite which can play every format.
(Mike ? I think I?ve got you some more tasks! Pete Hider has some 15ips tapes that need converting to mp3, too.)

Best Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Trevor Vaisey via Tech1
Sent: 08 July 2021 10:39
To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Dave Silk

Hi Geoff 

I remember very well the chaos and confusion caused in the Wood Norton admin office when Dave made the recording using a mic hidden in his double bass. I have a recording somewhere in the house, but nothing to play it on!

Cheers

Trev



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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Jul  8 12:16:27 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 18:16:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] : Frank Smith
In-Reply-To: <1MIMbU-1lvu6E0fIq-00EPfm@mail.gmx.net>
References: <1MIMbU-1lvu6E0fIq-00EPfm@mail.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <e3d12363-41a9-ac87-72c7-d04f13e118c1@btinternet.com>

The Frank Smith I knew was a tallish, rotund, pleasant chap who worked 
in Central Area in TVC, i.e., Pres. CAR etc. he turned up at my Thursday 
pub some time ago and we had a chat about 'the good old days'. Barry 
Bonner would know more about him as Barry's walking group has many 
'gingers' from Central Area. Cheers, Dave

On 08/07/2021 06:00, phider via Tech1 wrote:
> I was on TO13 with Pat and Frank and? I think I can fill in the gaps 
> on Pat's list of names.
>
> The guy between Pat and Ian Perry was Dave Palmer. He left Tech Ops 
> after returning to TVC and upsetting numerous people including a gram 
> op who had preset a disc for play-in. Dave decided that the deck was a 
> convenient place to lean on and sent the stylus skating across the disc.
> On the left of the front row was Mike Williams. A very quiet 
> unassuming man but a brilliant pianist. He was part of a classical 
> trio with Frank Smith on clarinet and Julian Imray on, I think,? 
> bassoon or oboe.
> Next to him is Paul Salinger who owned a magnificently large 
> convertible MG. I believe he went to Israel and died very young.
> Third on the front row is Chris Glass and the missing one next Frank 
> is John Ward with whom Frank and I shared accommodation.
> I never heard of him again after Evesham but Frank remained one of my 
> dearest friends until the end. R.I.P.
> Peter Hider
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: 06/07/2021 23:11 (GMT+00:00)
> To: Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] FW: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith
>
> ?
> The unnamed moustachioed gent in the front row, 3rd from the left, is 
> surely Dave Silk.
>
> Mike G
>
>> On 6 Jul 2021, at 10:00, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Second attempt to send.
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
>> Windows 10
>>
>> *From: *patheigham <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net>
>> *Sent: *06 July 2021 09:56
>> *To: *Bernard Newnham <mailto:bernie833 at gmail.com>; tech1 at tech-ops 
>> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops>
>> *Subject: *RE: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith
>>
>> Very sorry to hear that news.
>>
>> If it was the same Frank who was on TO course 13, March 1962, then 
>> here?s a pic attached.
>>
>> Also a story:
>>
>> BBC Evesham Club
>>
>> The BBC Training establishment just outside Evesham kept a large 
>> house in the town as a leisure club for attendees.
>>
>> One night in the bar, Reg, the Steward was trying to get us to 
>> participate in a stunt. He bet us that we could not tip a coin 
>> balanced on the forehead into a funnel tucked into the waistband of 
>> trousers. Frank, who was a tad older than the rest of us and more 
>> savvy (National Service?) played dim and pretended not to understand 
>> the setup. Frustrated, and to demonstrate, Reg tucked the funnel into 
>> _his_ waistband, whereupon, Frank at the speed of greased lightning, 
>> tipped his pint into the funnel! The look on Reg?s face as he 
>> realised he?d been caught with his own gag, was worth the cost of the 
>> laundry and another round!
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
>> Windows 10
>>
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>
>> Subject: ?????????? Frank Smith
>>
>> Date: ?? Mon, 5 Jul 2021 19:12:38 +0100
>>
>> From: ? Appletrees iMap <appletrees at btinternet.com>
>>
>> To: ?????? TVNET Group Email <TVNET at television-network.uk>
>>
>> Well you know what it means when you see a name in the subject line.
>>
>> Katie contacted me today, and Frank died peacefully yesterday at 6pm. He
>>
>> was in a nursing home in Dursley, and had been there for 3? weeks,
>>
>> starting with two weeks to give Katie some respite, but stayed on as his
>>
>> health deteriorated.
>>
>> I will let you all know about funeral arrangements when they are known.
>>
>> Oh dear?
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>> <1F7D03FD3EFE4FA6B82C8FB3DB4311A2.png>
>>
>> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>
>> 	
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>
>>
>>
>> <1F7D03FD3EFE4FA6B82C8FB3DB4311A2.png>
>> <TO Course 03-62.doc>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Jul  8 12:23:43 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 18:23:43 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MOTD
Message-ID: <b739a07d-f6f7-6ab1-63ca-a09ecefdbedc@btinternet.com>

It's nice to know the Jo-public wanted the England match to be shown on 
the Beeb as England have lost many more semi-finals when shown on ITV 
than when on the BBC! As it happens, they were lucky on the night. 
Denmark scored twice, one in each goal, and after 104 minutes a country 
with 60 million people and some of the highest earning players in the 
world managed to wangle a penalty and won the match against a nation of 
4 million! Whoopee! If you saw the Italy-Spain match you would think 
that it should have been the final as it was so good. England will have 
to play a lot better to win on Sunday! IMHO! Cheers, Dave



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jul  8 13:37:42 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 19:37:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] FW: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith
In-Reply-To: <1N3se2-1l1etY37iq-00zmfW@mail.gmx.net>
References: <oo64ih538kcvjr47en31p0ev.1625733810981@email.android.com>
	<1N3se2-1l1etY37iq-00zmfW@mail.gmx.net>
Message-ID: <60e745f6.1c69fb81.8488f.dd86@mx.google.com>

Concerning the course photo of TO 13 (March 1962) I can say that I?ve kept in touch with a couple of folks ? Mike McCarthy, who went on to be a senior Sound Supervisor with Morecambe & Wise, ?allo ?allo and Dad?s Army under his belt ? he has converted his garage into an audio suite which can play any audio format and has just this week rescued a tape of wedding speeches that I recorded 50 years ago. John Sandiford I?m in touch with in the form of Christmas cards, I believe he transferred from studios to house management. Pete Hider went into production and became producer/director? He has been corresponding on the chat line. Ian?s Perry and Ridley I believe became competent cameramen (Maybe senior?). John Henshall married one of the George Mitchell singers, I don?t think that survived, think maybe his wife passed away, but he is active still and held ?An Evening With? at the National Film Theatre.
John Lopes went into production and was a floor manager for a while (he came to my 21st ? 57 years ago! Gor Blimey! and took my girl cousin out a few times). As to the rest ? apart from the recent postings regarding Paul Salinger, and Palmer & Baker, both of whom I believe were encouraged not to stay, I know not of what became of them.
If any of you pick this up, do please let us know how you are.
(Chris Glass ? I think you chip in from time to time?)
Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: phider
Sent: 08 July 2021 10:37
To: Geoff Fletcher; patheigham; Tech Ops
Subject: Re: [Tech1] FW: [Announce] Fwd: Frank Smith

Hi Pat

Thank you Pat. My wife and I are remarkably well and are enjoying life. In fact we just had a week's holiday in Northern Ireland which was wonderful. It was a coach trip I'd organised for my tennis club and 34 of us went. The Titanic Experience in Belfast? is amazing.

I have 2 x 15ips recordings on big reels of a session we had in the sound studio at Evesham but I have nothing to play them on. Do you have anything Pat to transfer them to MP3s?



Sent from my Galaxy





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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Thu Jul  8 17:52:56 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 23:52:56 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MOTD
In-Reply-To: <b739a07d-f6f7-6ab1-63ca-a09ecefdbedc@btinternet.com>
References: <b739a07d-f6f7-6ab1-63ca-a09ecefdbedc@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <070C5EA7-83E0-4E14-90C6-13D13312FCF5@gmail.com>

In the first half it seemed that Denmark were in control of the game and when they scored I thought we were going to lose for sure. That changed in the second half and whether or not the penalty was justified (and I?m not qualified to judge), hooray, we won.
I don?t usually follow football but have been gripped by the matches we?ve played in this time and last night?s viewing was very tense. What surprised and disappointed me however was how dirty the play seemed compared with previous matches, with lots of fouls, pushing and pulling and even diving that seemed more like rugby tactics than football, but perhaps that?s normal in high value games?
I didn?t like the presentation on ITV, apart from that of Ian Wright who I remember from MOTD?s I worked on and they dragged it out to extinction afterwards when they should?ve wrapped after one session and gone to the news, it being so late.
The final will be shown by both BBC and ITV, so who does the cameras in a case like that as they won?t each have their own crews, will they? ITV I noticed were using the same wipes as the BBC, so perhaps the share the same facilities company to produce the pictures? You former OB people would know how it works on big matches and I?d be interested to hear,
Geoff Hawkes

> On 8 Jul 2021, at 18:24, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?It's nice to know the Jo-public wanted the England match to be shown on the Beeb as England have lost many more semi-finals when shown on ITV than when on the BBC! As it happens, they were lucky on the night. Denmark scored twice, one in each goal, and after 104 minutes a country with 60 million people and some of the highest earning players in the world managed to wangle a penalty and won the match against a nation of 4 million! Whoopee! If you saw the Italy-Spain match you would think that it should have been the final as it was so good. England will have to play a lot better to win on Sunday! IMHO! Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Jul  9 02:05:54 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 08:05:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MOTD
In-Reply-To: <070C5EA7-83E0-4E14-90C6-13D13312FCF5@gmail.com>
References: <070C5EA7-83E0-4E14-90C6-13D13312FCF5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65E6F6B8-831D-4C63-AB9C-6C7E645EC61F@me.com>

The standard way to cover a typical football match these days is to use two scanners, one for the match ( including commentary ) and one for presentation ( consisting of on-site studio if applicable, pitchside reports and post match interviews ). There would be  vehicles as big as large scanners for VT / slo-mo, together with vehicles for graphics and other specialised roles. When it comes to massive games, additional scanners are used to handle the presentation facilities for other broadcasters. They all take the same feed from the match scanner, but add their own commentary. Some trucks might handle more than one commentary in multiple languages. 

I?m not interested in football, so haven?t kept in touch with how these matches are being covered, but I remember the news story about the player who collapsed and needed defibrillation.  One member of my family was getting worked up on social media because the BBC didn?t have the sensitivity to cut away while the player was treated on the pitch. I hadn?t been watching, but told him that the BBC were most likely supplied with a feed from the host broadcaster and have had no alternative shot to cut to, therefore the choice of camera shots would be beyond their control.  Newspaper stories subsequently explained that the match feed was under the control of UEFA, which was pretty well what I guessed.  I would assume that similar arrangements apply to the match coverage for the final as well.

Incidentally, there are companies specialising in off-tube commentaries.  Matches are fed live from anywhere in the world to their studio complex and they might have a dozen commentary booths, some with two commentators.  They all get fed with the pictures and do their individual commentary, often pretending they were at the event.  It?s not a bad gig for a freelancer.  You only turn up a couple of hours before the match and clear off soon after the final whistle. There is virtually nothing to rig or de-rig beyond taking headphones and lip mics to and from a cupboard. Occasionally there are not even any production people nearby, just a commentator and a sound guy. Best of all, no crowds delaying your journey home.

Years ago I did one of these off-tube commentaries with a commentator I had worked with on many occasions.  He was incredulous to discover during our previous small talk that I had no knowledge of, nor interest in football, but we always chatted happily about loads of other stuff. This particular occasion, we were getting a live feed from somewhere like South America during the early hours of the morning, but just before kick off, both of his monitors developed a fault making the colours go weird. My monitors in the control room were fine.  While the engineers tried to sort the feed, he asked me to describe over talkback the colours of the shirts and shorts during the anthems.

While the radio camera slowly panned along the players one by one, the commentator was treated to my expert observations.  ?First team: Blue shirts, white shorts.  Second team: Black shirts, black shorts ?. Oh hang on ?. There?s only four of them?. Since then, he has never let me forget that I didn?t even know the difference between the players and the match officials.

Alan Taylor



> On 8 Jul 2021, at 23:53, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> The final will be shown by both BBC and ITV, so who does the cameras in a case like that as they won?t each have their own crews, will they? ITV I noticed were using the same wipes as the BBC, so perhaps the share the same facilities company to produce the pictures? You former OB people would know how it works on big matches and I?d be interested to hear,
> Geoff Hawkes
> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From trevor551 at btinternet.com  Fri Jul  9 04:03:00 2021
From: trevor551 at btinternet.com (Trevor Vaisey)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 10:03:00 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Tech1] Dave Silk
Message-ID: <291ebf5a.14701.17a8a818108.Webtop.103@btinternet.com>


David

Good to hear from you after all these years. I remember that photo being 
taken but had no idea it was to be used in their advertising campaign. 
It would have been appreciated by all of us in the camera department if 
they had spent less on publicity and more on development of their colour 
cameras, most of which left a lot to be desired. Having cut my teeth in 
the Beeb on the Marconi Mk III, and the occasional excursion with the 
Mk1b, expectations were high that the standard could be maintained, but 
the colour cameras they produced were, to put it politely, somewhat 
disappointing.

Peter Hall, having retired as a Production Manager, is enjoying his 
retirement living in south west France

Cheers

Trev

------ Original Message ------
From: "David Taylor" <david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk>
To: "Trevor Vaisey" <trevor551 at btinternet.com>
Sent: Thursday, 8 Jul, 21 At 15:52
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Dave Silk

Trevor,
There can't be many Trevor Vaisey's in the broadcasting world, so I 
guess you're the cameraman that I remember from my earliest days at 
Anglia TV?
I joined sound in mid 1966, at the same time that Peter Hall joined 
cameras. We both left for Thames and then LWT in 1969, so only three 
years in Norwich but 'formative years' that I still remember so well.


I have sorted through my Anglia TV photos and when I started a 
website/blog about sound stuff, and I started it off with a series of 
posts of my Anglia photos. They will surely bring back some memories of 
the 'Pye Mk4' days.


The first post about Anglia is at: 
http://postfade.co.uk/anglia-television/anglia-television-1966-to-1969-my-first-years-in-tv-sound/ 
<http://postfade.co.uk/anglia-television/anglia-television-1966-to-1969-my-first-years-in-tv-sound/>
and the later ones, there are four in total, have the photos of the 
three OB's that I recorded on camera.


Here's an ad I found from a few years layer:
Marconi MkiX for Anglia.jpg

All the best
David Taylor


Bridport Dorset
www.postfade.co.uk <http://www.postfade.co.uk>
"About broadcast and recorded sound"


On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 at 10:39, Trevor Vaisey via Tech1 
<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:


Hi Geoff

I remember very well the chaos and confusion caused in the Wood Norton 
admin office when Dave made the recording using a mic hidden in his 
double bass. I have a recording somewhere in the house, but nothing to 
play it on!

Cheers

Trev

-- 
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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Fri Jul  9 11:13:47 2021
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 17:13:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MOTD
In-Reply-To: <65E6F6B8-831D-4C63-AB9C-6C7E645EC61F@me.com>
References: <070C5EA7-83E0-4E14-90C6-13D13312FCF5@gmail.com>
	<65E6F6B8-831D-4C63-AB9C-6C7E645EC61F@me.com>
Message-ID: <003a01d774dd$6627d580$32778080$@pgtmedia.co.uk>

One of the 'new' ways to do this is to have Camera's, vision control, sound on the pitch & a sound guarantee, with a small truck at the ground, then bring all the individual cameras, mics etc back to a 'fixed ' control room /PCR. Typically you use 2 x UHD uplinks to bring back 8 (HD) cameras , with 32 audios.

Producer, Director, VM, SS and all the EVS ops, along with the off tube comms are all 'back at the main Facilities'  and do not go to site (Saving on travel, hotels etc)
Delays, comms and tallies are the big issues as you might imagin.

Paul

Paul Thackray
PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
07802 243979
Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk 
Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/

-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 09 July 2021 08:06
To: tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] MOTD

The standard way to cover a typical football match these days is to use two scanners, one for the match ( including commentary ) and one for presentation ( consisting of on-site studio if applicable, pitchside reports and post match interviews ). There would be  vehicles as big as large scanners for VT / slo-mo, together with vehicles for graphics and other specialised roles. When it comes to massive games, additional scanners are used to handle the presentation facilities for other broadcasters. They all take the same feed from the match scanner, but add their own commentary. Some trucks might handle more than one commentary in multiple languages. 

I?m not interested in football, so haven?t kept in touch with how these matches are being covered, but I remember the news story about the player who collapsed and needed defibrillation.  One member of my family was getting worked up on social media because the BBC didn?t have the sensitivity to cut away while the player was treated on the pitch. I hadn?t been watching, but told him that the BBC were most likely supplied with a feed from the host broadcaster and have had no alternative shot to cut to, therefore the choice of camera shots would be beyond their control.  Newspaper stories subsequently explained that the match feed was under the control of UEFA, which was pretty well what I guessed.  I would assume that similar arrangements apply to the match coverage for the final as well.

Incidentally, there are companies specialising in off-tube commentaries.  Matches are fed live from anywhere in the world to their studio complex and they might have a dozen commentary booths, some with two commentators.  They all get fed with the pictures and do their individual commentary, often pretending they were at the event.  It?s not a bad gig for a freelancer.  You only turn up a couple of hours before the match and clear off soon after the final whistle. There is virtually nothing to rig or de-rig beyond taking headphones and lip mics to and from a cupboard. Occasionally there are not even any production people nearby, just a commentator and a sound guy. Best of all, no crowds delaying your journey home.

Years ago I did one of these off-tube commentaries with a commentator I had worked with on many occasions.  He was incredulous to discover during our previous small talk that I had no knowledge of, nor interest in football, but we always chatted happily about loads of other stuff. This particular occasion, we were getting a live feed from somewhere like South America during the early hours of the morning, but just before kick off, both of his monitors developed a fault making the colours go weird. My monitors in the control room were fine.  While the engineers tried to sort the feed, he asked me to describe over talkback the colours of the shirts and shorts during the anthems.

While the radio camera slowly panned along the players one by one, the commentator was treated to my expert observations.  ?First team: Blue shirts, white shorts.  Second team: Black shirts, black shorts ?. Oh hang on ?. There?s only four of them?. Since then, he has never let me forget that I didn?t even know the difference between the players and the match officials.

Alan Taylor



> On 8 Jul 2021, at 23:53, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> The final will be shown by both BBC and ITV, so who does the cameras 
> in a case like that as they won?t each have their own crews, will 
> they? ITV I noticed were using the same wipes as the BBC, so perhaps 
> the share the same facilities company to produce the pictures? You 
> former OB people would know how it works on big matches and I?d be 
> interested to hear, Geoff Hawkes
> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From nick at mcr21.org.uk  Fri Jul  9 14:05:34 2021
From: nick at mcr21.org.uk (Nick Gilbey)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 20:05:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MCR21 at the 1966 World Cup Final
Message-ID: <0AB9586A-9E1C-4B77-9000-CA2CFFD4A8B4@mcr21.org.uk>

In this short video (link below)  former BBC cameraman, Harry Coventry recalls seeing the winning goal in his viewfinder at the 1966 World Cup Final

Nick

https://vimeo.com/572970119


Nick Gilbey
nick at mcr21.org.uk

The Abbots House
The Street 
Charmouth
Dorset
DT6 6QF

07831 219957



From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Fri Jul  9 14:13:42 2021
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 20:13:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MCR21 at the 1966 World Cup Final
In-Reply-To: <0AB9586A-9E1C-4B77-9000-CA2CFFD4A8B4@mcr21.org.uk>
References: <0AB9586A-9E1C-4B77-9000-CA2CFFD4A8B4@mcr21.org.uk>
Message-ID: <98D0C97D42B843DDB75E5E0D179CEFD3@Gigabyte>

And look at the pitch around the goal in the later CUs.
All dug up with studded boots unlike now at Wembley where the surface is all 
perfect and players don't dig in anyway but just give away the ball and 
slide onto the pitch!
That was also the time when players didn't push and shove their opponents at 
every opportunity even if not in possession.
I don't watch footie really but in the old days, would that behaviour not 
have been a foul?

Mike

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nick Gilbey via Tech1
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2021 8:05 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] MCR21 at the 1966 World Cup Final

In this short video (link below)  former BBC cameraman, Harry Coventry 
recalls seeing the winning goal in his viewfinder at the 1966 World Cup 
Final

Nick

https://vimeo.com/572970119


Nick Gilbey
nick at mcr21.org.uk



From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Jul  9 14:37:07 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 20:37:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MCR21 at the 1966 World Cup Final
In-Reply-To: <98D0C97D42B843DDB75E5E0D179CEFD3@Gigabyte>
References: <98D0C97D42B843DDB75E5E0D179CEFD3@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <EB24CDCC-E829-4423-9152-8D1B1EEEAF76@me.com>

I?ve been working on football matches from the late 60s through to the present day and one thing which has impressed me is that these days at top clubs, the playing surface at the finish of the season ends up in better condition than it used to be at the beginning of the season in the 60s.  Years ago, towards the end of the season, parts of the pitch might resemble the Somme and wouldn?t be much better by the time the next match was played.

When working on footie, it?s often useful for the sound crew to chat with the ground staff and discover when they plan to turn on the sprinklers and in which order the sprinklers pop up ( so that the pitchside mics can be kept dry ).  Many of the ground staff are immensely proud of what they do and love to talk about it.  I?ve done other shows at football grounds in the summer when the pitch is being replaced and it?s fascinating to see the complexity under the surface with heating, drainage and aeration, not to mention special lighting to boost growth in heavy wear areas.  It may look like a big, nicely cut lawn, but it?s actually a very hi-tech operation to provide the sort of playing surface which teams require these days.

Alan Taylor

> On 9 Jul 2021, at 20:14, Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?And look at the pitch around the goal in the later CUs.
> All dug up with studded boots unlike now at Wembley where the surface is all perfect and players don't dig in anyway but just give away the ball and slide onto the pitch!
> That was also the time when players didn't push and shove their opponents at every opportunity even if not in possession.
> I don't watch footie really but in the old days, would that behaviour not have been a foul?
> 
> Mike


From sue.malden at btinternet.com  Fri Jul  9 15:50:04 2021
From: sue.malden at btinternet.com (SUSAN MALDEN)
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 21:50:04 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Tech1] MCR21 at the 1966 World Cup Final
In-Reply-To: <0AB9586A-9E1C-4B77-9000-CA2CFFD4A8B4@mcr21.org.uk>
References: <0AB9586A-9E1C-4B77-9000-CA2CFFD4A8B4@mcr21.org.uk>
Message-ID: <84711e2.15ff2.17a8d08d7f9.Webtop.115@btinternet.com>


Great clip Nick

Thanks Sue

------ Original Message ------
From: "Nick Gilbey via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: Friday, 9 Jul, 21 At 20:05
Subject: [Tech1] MCR21 at the 1966 World Cup Final
In this short video (link below)  former BBC cameraman, Harry Coventry 
recalls seeing the winning goal in his viewfinder at the 1966 World Cup 
Final
Nick
https://vimeo.com/572970119 <https://vimeo.com/572970119>

Nick Gilbey
nick at mcr21.org.uk
The Abbots House
The Street
Charmouth
Dorset
DT6 6QF
07831 219957

-- 
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jul 10 06:52:29 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2021 12:52:29 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dave Silk
In-Reply-To: <CAB99AB_8MQK0_whGCeBcGkT_6rUz1NbzFnM6f+eFormVjzfpeQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3699674d.1258c.17a857c127b.Webtop.107@btinternet.com>
	<CAB99AB_8MQK0_whGCeBcGkT_6rUz1NbzFnM6f+eFormVjzfpeQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60e989fd.1c69fb81.8484.cf01@mx.google.com>

Hi all,
Silk Evesham spoof tape.

I know someone who has the recording, but for intellectual property concerns, will not release it unless with the express permission from Dave Silk.
Anyone know how to contact him?

I can handle ?? tape if need be.

Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1
Sent: 08 July 2021 11:10
To: Trevor Vaisey
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Dave Silk

Hi Trev
Good to hear from you. Not a guitar then - a double bass. No doubt somebody in the group could transfer your recording to MP3 or something so we could all enjoy hearing it again. Stay well old mate.
Geoff F

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 at 10:39, Trevor Vaisey via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Geoff 

I remember very well the chaos and confusion caused in the Wood Norton admin office when Dave made the recording using a mic hidden in his double bass. I have a recording somewhere in the house, but nothing to play it on!

Cheers

Trev



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Jul 10 06:55:53 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2021 12:55:53 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MCR21 at the 1966 World Cup Final
In-Reply-To: <0AB9586A-9E1C-4B77-9000-CA2CFFD4A8B4@mcr21.org.uk>
References: <0AB9586A-9E1C-4B77-9000-CA2CFFD4A8B4@mcr21.org.uk>
Message-ID: <5949d3a095davesound@btinternet.com>

My memory of that match was working in a room in the unfinished Spur,
mixing foreign commentary from a multi-track to clean effects to make a
video tape of the match for countries that couldn't take it live. Think I
did three or four in that night shift. And I'm not a footie fan.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From jes1944 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 10 07:12:43 2021
From: jes1944 at gmail.com (John Smith)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2021 13:12:43 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dave Silk
In-Reply-To: <60e989fd.1c69fb81.8484.cf01@mx.google.com>
References: <60e989fd.1c69fb81.8484.cf01@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <6A0B2905-E362-4FA5-B489-1C7EB9BAD7BC@gmail.com>

Hi Pat

www.jazz nights.co.uk
Should find Dave Silk. His phone number is on the website.

John Smith

Sent from my iPad

> On 10 Jul 2021, at 12:53, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hi all,
> Silk Evesham spoof tape.
>  
> I know someone who has the recording, but for intellectual property concerns, will not release it unless with the express permission from Dave Silk.
> Anyone know how to contact him?
>  
> I can handle ?? tape if need be.
>  
> Best
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1
> Sent: 08 July 2021 11:10
> To: Trevor Vaisey
> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Dave Silk
>  
> Hi Trev
> Good to hear from you. Not a guitar then - a double bass. No doubt somebody in the group could transfer your recording to MP3 or something so we could all enjoy hearing it again. Stay well old mate.
> Geoff F
>  
> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 at 10:39, Trevor Vaisey via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Geoff
> 
>  
> 
> I remember very well the chaos and confusion caused in the Wood Norton admin office when Dave made the recording using a mic hidden in his double bass. I have a recording somewhere in the house, but nothing to play it on!
> 
>  
> 
> Cheers
> 
>  
> 
> Trev
> 
>  
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From jes1944 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 10 07:18:41 2021
From: jes1944 at gmail.com (John Smith)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2021 13:18:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dave Silk
In-Reply-To: <6A0B2905-E362-4FA5-B489-1C7EB9BAD7BC@gmail.com>
References: <6A0B2905-E362-4FA5-B489-1C7EB9BAD7BC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2F3EA1E7-7D00-4DDC-BF0B-C691628FF276@gmail.com>

Hi Pat

Trying again, the wonders of spelling correction messed it up.
www.jazznights.co.uk
should find Dave Silk.
His phone number is on the website.

John Smith

Sent from my iPad

> On 10 Jul 2021, at 13:12, John Smith <jes1944 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hi Pat
> 
> www.jazz nights.co.uk
> Should find Dave Silk. His phone number is on the website.
> 
> John Smith
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>>> On 10 Jul 2021, at 12:53, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Hi all,
>> Silk Evesham spoof tape.
>>  
>> I know someone who has the recording, but for intellectual property concerns, will not release it unless with the express permission from Dave Silk.
>> Anyone know how to contact him?
>>  
>> I can handle ?? tape if need be.
>>  
>> Best
>> Pat
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1
>> Sent: 08 July 2021 11:10
>> To: Trevor Vaisey
>> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Dave Silk
>>  
>> Hi Trev
>> Good to hear from you. Not a guitar then - a double bass. No doubt somebody in the group could transfer your recording to MP3 or something so we could all enjoy hearing it again. Stay well old mate.
>> Geoff F
>>  
>> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 at 10:39, Trevor Vaisey via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi Geoff
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I remember very well the chaos and confusion caused in the Wood Norton admin office when Dave made the recording using a mic hidden in his double bass. I have a recording somewhere in the house, but nothing to play it on!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Trev
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  	
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jul 10 07:27:10 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2021 13:27:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MCR21 at the 1966 World Cup Final
In-Reply-To: <5949d3a095davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <0AB9586A-9E1C-4B77-9000-CA2CFFD4A8B4@mcr21.org.uk>
	<5949d3a095davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <60e9921d.1c69fb81.e1807.0339@mx.google.com>

For those that might be interested, C4 is showing the 1966 match (in Colour!) at 17:40 ? 20.00 TODAY.
Good luck
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 10 July 2021 13:05
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] MCR21 at the 1966 World Cup Final

My memory of that match was working in a room in the unfinished Spur,
mixing foreign commentary from a multi-track to clean effects to make a
video tape of the match for countries that couldn't take it live. Think I
did three or four in that night shift. And I'm not a footie fan.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



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From david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk  Sat Jul 10 08:31:20 2021
From: david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk (David Taylor)
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2021 14:31:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hearing and ageing
Message-ID: <CAKrdDqt7vaKz+iTFn9+boLkWOpZ2QwptAx8V1gXYE2=2ubcarg@mail.gmail.com>

Most of us of 'a certain age' will be aware of the possibility of some
hearing difficulties, I thought this article from the Luminosity websites
blog was interesting, as it isn't just the 'ear' that hears of course and
the other complexities of the brains cognition are discussed:
*https://www.lumosity.com/en/blog/how-cognition-impacts-hearing-and-its-loss
<https://www.lumosity.com/en/blog/how-cognition-impacts-hearing-and-its-loss>*

I'm 74 and still hearing well I believe....but my 'threshold' is changing
which I usually notice when my wife puts our loud boiling kettle on and
then tries to have a conversation with me!

I have a friend, a Sound Supervisor, who worked with me for years and had
been complaining of tinnitus some while ago. He finally had a comprehensive
auditory test and got fitted with a top range digital hearing aid. He says
it has 3 settings; full range, cocktail party and another that he doesn't
use. It has transformed his hearing and of course is digital aligned to his
'hearing curve'.
He hides the earpieces behind long hair though, as he doesn't think anyone
would want to employ a Sound Supervisor or recordist with a hearing aid!

Dave Taylor
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From relong at btinternet.com  Sun Jul 11 04:30:44 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 10:30:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MCR21 at the 1966 World Cup Final
In-Reply-To: <5949d3a095davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <5949d3a095davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <F9C713E3-771B-4636-9BF0-53E7A6B1B059@btinternet.com>

Fresh back from Evesham and TO24 my first event was the Langham and an off tube commentary for the Brazilian Service.
The C &M had but one Stc lip mic and eight of em turned up ..
They were a bit pissed and very voluble and late
My first broadcast to the World, I faded up the fx and cued em ,but they had already started?.
Roger

Sent from my iPhone

> On 10 Jul 2021, at 13:05, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?My memory of that match was working in a room in the unfinished Spur,
> mixing foreign commentary from a multi-track to clean effects to make a
> video tape of the match for countries that couldn't take it live. Think I
> did three or four in that night shift. And I'm not a footie fan.
> 
> -- 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Jul 11 05:05:01 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:05:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MOTD
In-Reply-To: <003a01d774dd$6627d580$32778080$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <003a01d774dd$6627d580$32778080$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3BD09FC2-A175-4675-9724-DA14AB1E1A92@me.com>

It?s fascinating to see how technology can drastically change our industry.

Back in the late 1960s I started my career as a technical assistant, which was part of the engineering stream. I learnt to line up EMI 2001 cameras, using that impressive array of knobs on the CCU.  In conversation with Ron Gibbs, my vision supervisor, I argued that this was a prime task for automation because everything we adjusted was observed on an electronic display and was tweaked for a maximum, minimum or to a specified level.  I pointed out that if it was measured and controlled electronically, the task could be more easily automated.

?Not in my lifetime, probably not in yours either? he said.  It?s worth recalling that integrated circuits were still to come into the mainstream and microprocessors were unheard of in those days.  However, by the 1980s we were seeing cameras which could largely line up themselves.  I certainly believed it would happen, but never expected it to happen in just over a decade.

Paul?s description of remote operation is something which has been discussed and predicted in one form or another many times in the past, it seems such an obvious thing to do, but of course trying to do for real comes with tremendous technical and operational challenges.

Satellite links sounded promising, but years ago you would have needed loads of them to get that many signal chains out of the site, therefore I had expected that optical fibre was going to be the solution, which would also have reduced delays.  

I?ve spoken to many a commentator about the difference between commentating at the stadium or off-tube and many argue that they need to see the wider view of the match which is only possible in the stadium.  They also point to the need to do post match interviews in person.  The recent experience of having to work around Covid has forced people to try new ideas.  FaceTime or Zoom interviews are seen on TV every day. There?s no reason why post match interviews wouldn?t work in a similar video-call manner.  An off-tube commentary could be done using multiple screens as every camera would be available via a router, therefore the comm could simultaneously view the transmission coverage, a wide angle shot, close ups of the benches and still choose additional views. They could also have more room for their notes in a studio, particularly if commentary booths were made larger.

The obvious extension of that idea is that some of the less critical cameras could be remotely or even automatically operated.  The technology used to electronically track players on the pitch might also automatically point a camera at a selected player. 

There is one obvious drawback to having fewer people on site.  There will be fewer people available to do the rig and de-rig.  Some of the cameras could be smaller, which would help, but the lenses required to get the tight close ups are not going to shrink much, so there?s still going to be a lot of heavy gear to move around. Sound-wise and video monitor-wise it?s probably swings and roundabouts.  Fx coverage much as before but no commentary position. Prep and post match interviews could be slick video-call type operations with the same gear moving from pre-match pitch side to post match interview rooms. 

The most obvious problem is that you are putting all your eggs in one basket.  If the uplink fails, then what?  It might be possible to back up everything locally on a mega-storage system and retransmit when the uplink fault is cleared, but you still lose remote control while it?s happening.

It seems inevitable that this will become the way to do routine sports coverage.  A sports channel could use one central operation to cover three  live matches at 11:00, 15:00 and 19:00, all using the same system and crew it with two overlapping shifts.  Instead of a hundred people on site for each OB, there might be a little over twenty. Therefore on a day with three OBs, something like 200 fewer people would be sent to those stadia. It would be an accountant?s dream. 

I don?t ever see this working for big matches.  Apart from the technical limitations and risks, a major sports event attracts massive numbers of production people, together with various hangers-on, who insist that they simply have to be there on the day.  If there isn?t a big scanner to crowd into or a commentator to sit near, where can they go? Answers on a postcard please. 

Alan Taylor

> On 9 Jul 2021, at 17:14, paul at pgtmedia.co.uk wrote:
> 
> ?One of the 'new' ways to do this is to have Camera's, vision control, sound on the pitch & a sound guarantee, with a small truck at the ground, then bring all the individual cameras, mics etc back to a 'fixed ' control room /PCR. Typically you use 2 x UHD uplinks to bring back 8 (HD) cameras , with 32 audios.
> 
> Producer, Director, VM, SS and all the EVS ops, along with the off tube comms are all 'back at the main Facilities'  and do not go to site (Saving on travel, hotels etc)
> Delays, comms and tallies are the big issues as you might imagin.
> 
> Paul
> 
> Paul Thackray
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
> 07802 243979
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk 
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
> 
> 
> 


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Jul 11 05:14:10 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:14:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] 1966 Match
Message-ID: <60eac471.1c69fb81.dd668.315a@mx.google.com>

Not being that interested in football, however I did dip into the C4 transmission of 1966 in colour.
I was impressed at the quality ? were there colour cameras in use that year, or was it painstakingly ?colourised?. Or was it colour film?
Any clues, folks?
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Sun Jul 11 05:25:18 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:25:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] 1966 Match
In-Reply-To: <60eac471.1c69fb81.dd668.315a@mx.google.com>
References: <60eac471.1c69fb81.dd668.315a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <594a4f2b1edavesound@btinternet.com>

Rather surprised you can't tell between film and electronic, Pat?

Not seen it, but a major event like this in those days would have been
filmed for cinema showing - if only clips in the news.



In article <60eac471.1c69fb81.dd668.315a at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Not being that interested in football, however I did dip into the C4 transmission of 1966 in colour.
> I was impressed at the quality ? were there colour cameras in use that year, or was it painstakingly ?colourised?. Or was it colour film?
> Any clues, folks?
> Pat

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10



> -- 
> Th

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sun Jul 11 05:35:22 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:35:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MOTD
In-Reply-To: <3BD09FC2-A175-4675-9724-DA14AB1E1A92@me.com>
References: <003a01d774dd$6627d580$32778080$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<3BD09FC2-A175-4675-9724-DA14AB1E1A92@me.com>
Message-ID: <a8587323-4aad-d2cb-0675-365c419ea6e0@chriswoolf.co.uk>

While those changes that Alan mentions are amazing, they have taken 
place over 60 years. It is good to put that into historical perspective.

The mobile steam engine was first invented at the turn of the 19th 
century. 98 miles of railway existed in 1830 - 10600 miles in 1860.? You 
can follow similar developments in electricity too. The changes that 
these inventions brought to society over half a century? were immense, 
and probably little different in scale to that of electronics today.

Perhaps the pace of development is running a little faster now, but 
maybe not as much as we imagine.

Chris Woolf


On 11/07/2021 11:05, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> It?s fascinating to see how technology can drastically change our industry.
>
> Back in the late 1960s I started my career as a technical assistant, which was part of the engineering stream. I learnt to line up EMI 2001 cameras, using that impressive array of knobs on the CCU.  In conversation with Ron Gibbs, my vision supervisor, I argued that this was a prime task for automation because everything we adjusted was observed on an electronic display and was tweaked for a maximum, minimum or to a specified level.  I pointed out that if it was measured and controlled electronically, the task could be more easily automated.
>
> ?Not in my lifetime, probably not in yours either? he said.  It?s worth recalling that integrated circuits were still to come into the mainstream and microprocessors were unheard of in those days.  However, by the 1980s we were seeing cameras which could largely line up themselves.  I certainly believed it would happen, but never expected it to happen in just over a decade.
>
> Paul?s description of remote operation is something which has been discussed and predicted in one form or another many times in the past, it seems such an obvious thing to do, but of course trying to do for real comes with tremendous technical and operational challenges.
>
> Satellite links sounded promising, but years ago you would have needed loads of them to get that many signal chains out of the site, therefore I had expected that optical fibre was going to be the solution, which would also have reduced delays.
>
> I?ve spoken to many a commentator about the difference between commentating at the stadium or off-tube and many argue that they need to see the wider view of the match which is only possible in the stadium.  They also point to the need to do post match interviews in person.  The recent experience of having to work around Covid has forced people to try new ideas.  FaceTime or Zoom interviews are seen on TV every day. There?s no reason why post match interviews wouldn?t work in a similar video-call manner.  An off-tube commentary could be done using multiple screens as every camera would be available via a router, therefore the comm could simultaneously view the transmission coverage, a wide angle shot, close ups of the benches and still choose additional views. They could also have more room for their notes in a studio, particularly if commentary booths were made larger.
>
> The obvious extension of that idea is that some of the less critical cameras could be remotely or even automatically operated.  The technology used to electronically track players on the pitch might also automatically point a camera at a selected player.
>
> There is one obvious drawback to having fewer people on site.  There will be fewer people available to do the rig and de-rig.  Some of the cameras could be smaller, which would help, but the lenses required to get the tight close ups are not going to shrink much, so there?s still going to be a lot of heavy gear to move around. Sound-wise and video monitor-wise it?s probably swings and roundabouts.  Fx coverage much as before but no commentary position. Prep and post match interviews could be slick video-call type operations with the same gear moving from pre-match pitch side to post match interview rooms.
>
> The most obvious problem is that you are putting all your eggs in one basket.  If the uplink fails, then what?  It might be possible to back up everything locally on a mega-storage system and retransmit when the uplink fault is cleared, but you still lose remote control while it?s happening.
>
> It seems inevitable that this will become the way to do routine sports coverage.  A sports channel could use one central operation to cover three  live matches at 11:00, 15:00 and 19:00, all using the same system and crew it with two overlapping shifts.  Instead of a hundred people on site for each OB, there might be a little over twenty. Therefore on a day with three OBs, something like 200 fewer people would be sent to those stadia. It would be an accountant?s dream.
>
> I don?t ever see this working for big matches.  Apart from the technical limitations and risks, a major sports event attracts massive numbers of production people, together with various hangers-on, who insist that they simply have to be there on the day.  If there isn?t a big scanner to crowd into or a commentator to sit near, where can they go? Answers on a postcard please.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>> On 9 Jul 2021, at 17:14, paul at pgtmedia.co.uk wrote:
>>
>> ?One of the 'new' ways to do this is to have Camera's, vision control, sound on the pitch & a sound guarantee, with a small truck at the ground, then bring all the individual cameras, mics etc back to a 'fixed ' control room /PCR. Typically you use 2 x UHD uplinks to bring back 8 (HD) cameras , with 32 audios.
>>
>> Producer, Director, VM, SS and all the EVS ops, along with the off tube comms are all 'back at the main Facilities'  and do not go to site (Saving on travel, hotels etc)
>> Delays, comms and tallies are the big issues as you might imagin.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Paul Thackray
>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>> 07802 243979
>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>
>>
>>

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Jul 11 05:43:33 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:43:33 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] 1966 Match
In-Reply-To: <60eac471.1c69fb81.dd668.315a@mx.google.com>
References: <60eac471.1c69fb81.dd668.315a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <D47B0166-5FC8-4E10-8F87-C05250B18543@me.com>

1966 was too early for colour OBs. It either had to be film or colourised video, I don?t know which.

Alan Taylor

> On 11 Jul 2021, at 11:14, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Not being that interested in football, however I did dip into the C4 transmission of 1966 in colour.
> I was impressed at the quality ? were there colour cameras in use that year, or was it painstakingly ?colourised?. Or was it colour film?
> Any clues, folks?
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk  Sun Jul 11 08:23:29 2021
From: robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk (Robert Miles)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 09:23:29 -0400
Subject: [Tech1] 'Sisters with transistors'
Message-ID: <000001d77657$f1c99030$d55cb090$@soundsuper.co.uk>

This documentary might be of interest - https://sisterswithtransistors.com/
watch online or if you are in the vicinity of St Albans next Thursday, watch
at the wonderful Odyssey cinema - 

https://odysseypictures.co.uk/OdysseyPictures.dll/WhatsOn?f=13646059

 

Rob

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From robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk  Sun Jul 11 08:57:44 2021
From: robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk (Robert Miles)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 09:57:44 -0400
Subject: [Tech1] Asbestos in BBC Buildings
Message-ID: <000a01d7765c$ba2366b0$2e6a3410$@soundsuper.co.uk>

Sorry to see another BBC employee dying of mesothelioma.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jul/11/musicians-widow-sues-bbc-over-
his-exposure-to-asbestos-in-studio

 

 

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From mail at terrymeadowcroft.co.uk  Sun Jul 11 09:46:57 2021
From: mail at terrymeadowcroft.co.uk (terrymeadowcroft)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 15:46:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] 1966 Match
Message-ID: <82AD95547EED4AA68AD414EA1BA0EB56@MEDDIES2012>

Hello Pat,

There was a credit at the end for the 'colourisation':

West Wing Studios,
Vivak Rao
Stanton Rutledge,
Meena Naik

An amazingly good job done!

Terry Meadowcroft
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From alan_machin at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 11 10:14:27 2021
From: alan_machin at hotmail.com (Alan Machin)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 15:14:27 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 1966 Match
In-Reply-To: <60eac471.1c69fb81.dd668.315a@mx.google.com>
References: <60eac471.1c69fb81.dd668.315a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <DB3PR0602MB3804AB1414FC1BE86EACC41992169@DB3PR0602MB3804.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

The 1966 World Cup Final was transmitted and recorded by the BBC in monochrome, with the commentary by Kenneth (?They think it?s all over?) Wolstenholme. C4 yesterday showed a version recorded on colour film for theatrical release as ?Goal!? with commentary by Hugh Johns, who mostly worked for ITV. It would appear that the original colour material was discarded in 1966 after editing and the colour restoration was done specially. See https://www.finalreplay.tv/full-colour-66/ for details.

One big difference in the coverage was the absence of any action replays. When did the instant replay video disc arrive at TVC? I seem to  remember it first being used at an Olympics in the mid 1960s.

All the best, Alan.

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: patheigham via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 11 July 2021 11:14
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: [Tech1] 1966 Match

Not being that interested in football, however I did dip into the C4 transmission of 1966 in colour.
I was impressed at the quality ? were there colour cameras in use that year, or was it painstakingly ?colourised?. Or was it colour film?
Any clues, folks?
Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



[Avast logo]<https://www.avast.com/antivirus>

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/antivirus>



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From davidvbrunt at gmail.com  Sun Jul 11 10:31:58 2021
From: davidvbrunt at gmail.com (David Brunt)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 16:31:58 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] 1966 Match
In-Reply-To: <DB3PR0602MB3804AB1414FC1BE86EACC41992169@DB3PR0602MB3804.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <60eac471.1c69fb81.dd668.315a@mx.google.com>
	<DB3PR0602MB3804AB1414FC1BE86EACC41992169@DB3PR0602MB3804.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <C8141DFA1CF7415E9437CE188C56198D@0023242e4e14>

I think Mexico ?68 was the first major use of the videodisc. 



From: Alan Machin via Tech1 
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 4:14 PM
To: patheigham ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] 1966 Match

The 1966 World Cup Final was transmitted and recorded by the BBC in monochrome, with the commentary by Kenneth (?They think it?s all over?) Wolstenholme. C4 yesterday showed a version recorded on colour film for theatrical release as ?Goal!? with commentary by Hugh Johns, who mostly worked for ITV. It would appear that the original colour material was discarded in 1966 after editing and the colour restoration was done specially. See https://www.finalreplay.tv/full-colour-66/ for details.

 

One big difference in the coverage was the absence of any action replays. When did the instant replay video disc arrive at TVC? I seem to  remember it first being used at an Olympics in the mid 1960s. 

 

All the best, Alan.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Jul 11 10:51:15 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 16:51:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] 1966 Match
In-Reply-To: <DB3PR0602MB3804AB1414FC1BE86EACC41992169@DB3PR0602MB3804.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DB3PR0602MB3804AB1414FC1BE86EACC41992169@DB3PR0602MB3804.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <2E4C2A4E-D1BA-4BB1-A87B-177CD2EE7834@me.com>

As far as action replays are concerned, I remember being intrigued by a Heath Robinson looking machine which was used on site at Wimbledon some time in the early 70s.  It appeared to use a Garrard turntable, complete with the original strobe markings for 33 & 45rpm, substituting some sort of magnetic disc for a vinyl one and having a read/write head which was driven across the platter.  It looked to be some boffin?s kitchen table way of making what we might now recognise as a hard disk, although I suspect that it was fundamentally analogue rather than digital. There was a vast amount of electronic trickery to go with it, but I have no recollection of how well it worked. 

Alan Machin?s comment included a useful link.  They use the word ?footage? ambiguously, possibly for video sourced material as well as celluloid.  My reading of it is that only a small amount of original 35mm colour cine material survives, which provided valuable colour references so that the B&W footage ( film recordings from video? ) could be accurately colourised. The team who colourised the B&W material also did ?They Shall Not Grow Old?, the hugely impressive film made from WW2 material.

If anybody is really keen to know whether the restoration was mostly done from the OB pictures, I would imagine that if you compared it with the original OB, you would be able to see whether the camera angles and shot changes were the same. 

Alan Taylor

> On 11 Jul 2021, at 16:14, Alan Machin via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> The 1966 World Cup Final was transmitted and recorded by the BBC in monochrome, with the commentary by Kenneth (?They think it?s all over?) Wolstenholme. C4 yesterday showed a version recorded on colour film for theatrical release as ?Goal!? with commentary by Hugh Johns, who mostly worked for ITV. It would appear that the original colour material was discarded in 1966 after editing and the colour restoration was done specially. See https://www.finalreplay.tv/full-colour-66/ for details.
>  
> One big difference in the coverage was the absence of any action replays. When did the instant replay video disc arrive at TVC? I seem to  remember it first being used at an Olympics 
>  
> All the best, Alan.
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: patheigham via Tech1
> Sent: 11 July 2021 11:14
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: [Tech1] 1966 Match
>  
> Not being that interested in football, however I did dip into the C4 transmission of 1966 in colour.
> I was impressed at the quality ? were there colour cameras in use that year, or was it painstakingly ?colourised?. Or was it colour film?
> Any clues, folks?
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
>  
> 
> <D140F56953EC401082D31D10D85949AC.png>
> 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From nick at mcr21.org.uk  Sun Jul 11 11:56:41 2021
From: nick at mcr21.org.uk (Nick Gilbey)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 17:56:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] 1966 World Cup Final in colour
Message-ID: <432BA107-D602-4E13-A494-F61EA61D93AF@mcr21.org.uk>

The Sunday Times confirms that the CH4 programme was a colourisation of the original TX recording. As it was the ITV commentary, I suspect the original was from ITV?s OB. Rediffusion were there for ITV with their old scanners, using Marconi MkIII cameras. You can see one of their cameras on the Wembley gantry, next to Harry Coventry behind the Pye Mk 6.

The Sunday Times also says that there was a complete 35mm film of the match but it has been lost - Amazing.

Nick


Nick Gilbey
nick at mcr21.org.uk



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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Sun Jul 11 13:21:43 2021
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 19:21:43 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] 1966 Match
In-Reply-To: <DB3PR0602MB3804AB1414FC1BE86EACC41992169@DB3PR0602MB3804.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <60eac471.1c69fb81.dd668.315a@mx.google.com>
	<DB3PR0602MB3804AB1414FC1BE86EACC41992169@DB3PR0602MB3804.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAA0HHB22ohgCtc3Y7CuP2z2V9D70fVihvDXS03NrH_WS-m89zw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, in 1966 the Beeb had a single video disc recorder.  Engineering and VT
adapted a quad 2 inch VT with pivoting arms before and after the
record/replay heads.  For slomo, action replay, the VT played a bit, the
arms lifted the tape off the heads and as the arms rotated backward, they
then replaced the tape against the heads to replay a few frames again. This
output went into the Vide disc and replayed from that in a sort of frame by
frame replay.  Sorry it's a rough description  I am sure VT old boys could
tell us more  about this.
Best regards, Alec

Yes, I did see the set up in the basement in 1966 ...

sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.

On Sun, 11 Jul 2021, 16:14 Alan Machin via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> The 1966 World Cup Final was transmitted and recorded by the BBC in
> monochrome, with the commentary by Kenneth (?They think it?s all over?)
> Wolstenholme. C4 yesterday showed a version recorded on colour film for
> theatrical release as ?Goal!? with commentary by Hugh Johns, who mostly
> worked for ITV. It would appear that the original colour material was
> discarded in 1966 after editing and the colour restoration was done
> specially. See https://www.finalreplay.tv/full-colour-66/ for details.
>
>
>
> One big difference in the coverage was the absence of any action replays.
> When did the instant replay video disc arrive at TVC? I seem to  remember
> it first being used at an Olympics in the mid 1960s.
>
>
>
> All the best, Alan.
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *11 July 2021 11:14
> *To: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject: *[Tech1] 1966 Match
>
>
>
> Not being that interested in football, however I did dip into the C4
> transmission of 1966 in colour.
>
> I was impressed at the quality ? were there colour cameras in use that
> year, or was it painstakingly ?colourised?. Or was it colour film?
>
> Any clues, folks?
>
> Pat
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Sun Jul 11 13:27:47 2021
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 19:27:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] 1966 Match
In-Reply-To: <CAA0HHB22ohgCtc3Y7CuP2z2V9D70fVihvDXS03NrH_WS-m89zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8f8mrchlvvi47fvk1r532iie.1626028067076@pgtmedia.co.uk>

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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Sun Jul 11 13:32:10 2021
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 19:32:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] 1966 Match
In-Reply-To: <8f8mrchlvvi47fvk1r532iie.1626028067076@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <CAA0HHB22ohgCtc3Y7CuP2z2V9D70fVihvDXS03NrH_WS-m89zw@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f8mrchlvvi47fvk1r532iie.1626028067076@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA0HHB1a+Dh1KBsf43Y8_d81OJAC6MnA+CW=qO6nw5rKsO7Z0g@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for that, Paul!  Excellent! Alec

sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.

On Sun, 11 Jul 2021, 19:27 Paul Thackray, <paul at pgtmedia.co.uk> wrote:

>
> http://www.vtoldboys.com/slo60.htm
>
> This link has details / pictures.
>
> Paul Thackray
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
> +44 7802 243979 <+447802243979>
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
> *From:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Sent:* 11 July 2021 19:22
> *To:* alan_machin at hotmail.com; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Reply to:* alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] 1966 Match
>
> Hi, in 1966 the Beeb had a single video disc recorder.  Engineering and VT
> adapted a quad 2 inch VT with pivoting arms before and after the
> record/replay heads.  For slomo, action replay, the VT played a bit, the
> arms lifted the tape off the heads and as the arms rotated backward, they
> then replaced the tape against the heads to replay a few frames again. This
> output went into the Vide disc and replayed from that in a sort of frame by
> frame replay.  Sorry it's a rough description  I am sure VT old boys could
> tell us more  about this.
> Best regards, Alec
>
> Yes, I did see the set up in the basement in 1966 ...
>
> sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.
>
> On Sun, 11 Jul 2021, 16:14 Alan Machin via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> The 1966 World Cup Final was transmitted and recorded by the BBC in
>> monochrome, with the commentary by Kenneth (?They think it?s all over?)
>> Wolstenholme. C4 yesterday showed a version recorded on colour film for
>> theatrical release as ?Goal!? with commentary by Hugh Johns, who mostly
>> worked for ITV. It would appear that the original colour material was
>> discarded in 1966 after editing and the colour restoration was done
>> specially. See https://www.finalreplay.tv/full-colour-66/ for details.
>>
>>
>>
>> One big difference in the coverage was the absence of any action replays.
>> When did the instant replay video disc arrive at TVC? I seem to  remember
>> it first being used at an Olympics in the mid 1960s.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the best, Alan.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Sent: *11 July 2021 11:14
>> *To: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> *Subject: *[Tech1] 1966 Match
>>
>>
>>
>> Not being that interested in football, however I did dip into the C4
>> transmission of 1966 in colour.
>>
>> I was impressed at the quality ? were there colour cameras in use that
>> year, or was it painstakingly ?colourised?. Or was it colour film?
>>
>> Any clues, folks?
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>
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From hughsheppard at btinternet.com  Mon Jul 12 02:13:18 2021
From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 08:13:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MOTD - and all that...
In-Reply-To: <3BD09FC2-A175-4675-9724-DA14AB1E1A92@me.com>
References: <003a01d774dd$6627d580$32778080$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<3BD09FC2-A175-4675-9724-DA14AB1E1A92@me.com>
Message-ID: <20dd7749-78e2-f9f7-0759-3965e9b7186e@btinternet.com>

Ah well, Alan; what goes around comes around. As the manager of most BBC 
operations for visiting commentators in the '70s and early '80s, the 
debate about being on-site or off-tube is still all too familiar. 
Suffice that in 1979, BBC Engineering allowed me, as an ex-tech-op 
renegade, to sully the pages of its monographs with a summary of how the 
new Mobile International Control Room (MICR1) and its Commentator 
Control Units led the way for on-site standards adopted by the EBU's 
members for major events for a generation. Do see the attached from the 
BBC Eng. monograph no. 113 from 1979.

See: 
https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/BBC-Technical/BBC-Engineering/bbc-engineering-113-OCR.pdf 
for better quality, but 'tis a large OCR file.

Even today If you take M F R McKee's description of the original units 
built for the BBC by Glensound and compare the company's commentary 
units on its website, you'll see how the operational initiatives of 
Presentation and Kendal Avenue met the commentator's needs and have 
withstood the test of time? As for off-tube commentary, so essential to 
meet the demands of scattered Olympic events for the less well-resourced 
broadcasters, let alone the breadth of requirements of international 
networks such as Sky, to have an observer at the ground with 2-way 
contact probably completes most of the elements for a full 'you are 
there' viewer experience. Of course, the need for interviews and to be 
in-vision argues for an on-site presence, but otherwise who would know?

When the BBC sold off OB's in 2008 in its folly, the ?19m it received 
didn't quite cover all the contents of Kendal Avenue, so that both John 
Teather and I have a salvaged commentators unlt as a momento of those 
happy days. Of course, that paled 4 years later, when TV Centre went to 
the knacker's yard for just ?200m. But rest assured..? the BBC Finance 
Director at the time was bound to have known the price of 
everything....? need any more be said?

Hugh

On 11-Jul-21 11:05 AM, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:


On 11-Jul-21 11:05 AM, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> It?s fascinating to see how technology can drastically change our industry.
>
> Back in the late 1960s I started my career as a technical assistant, which was part of the engineering stream. I learnt to line up EMI 2001 cameras, using that impressive array of knobs on the CCU.  In conversation with Ron Gibbs, my vision supervisor, I argued that this was a prime task for automation because everything we adjusted was observed on an electronic display and was tweaked for a maximum, minimum or to a specified level.  I pointed out that if it was measured and controlled electronically, the task could be more easily automated.
>
> ?Not in my lifetime, probably not in yours either? he said.  It?s worth recalling that integrated circuits were still to come into the mainstream and microprocessors were unheard of in those days.  However, by the 1980s we were seeing cameras which could largely line up themselves.  I certainly believed it would happen, but never expected it to happen in just over a decade.
>
> Paul?s description of remote operation is something which has been discussed and predicted in one form or another many times in the past, it seems such an obvious thing to do, but of course trying to do for real comes with tremendous technical and operational challenges.
>
> Satellite links sounded promising, but years ago you would have needed loads of them to get that many signal chains out of the site, therefore I had expected that optical fibre was going to be the solution, which would also have reduced delays.
>
> I?ve spoken to many a commentator about the difference between commentating at the stadium or off-tube and many argue that they need to see the wider view of the match which is only possible in the stadium.  They also point to the need to do post match interviews in person.  The recent experience of having to work around Covid has forced people to try new ideas.  FaceTime or Zoom interviews are seen on TV every day. There?s no reason why post match interviews wouldn?t work in a similar video-call manner.  An off-tube commentary could be done using multiple screens as every camera would be available via a router, therefore the comm could simultaneously view the transmission coverage, a wide angle shot, close ups of the benches and still choose additional views. They could also have more room for their notes in a studio, particularly if commentary booths were made larger.
>
> The obvious extension of that idea is that some of the less critical cameras could be remotely or even automatically operated.  The technology used to electronically track players on the pitch might also automatically point a camera at a selected player.
>
> There is one obvious drawback to having fewer people on site.  There will be fewer people available to do the rig and de-rig.  Some of the cameras could be smaller, which would help, but the lenses required to get the tight close ups are not going to shrink much, so there?s still going to be a lot of heavy gear to move around. Sound-wise and video monitor-wise it?s probably swings and roundabouts.  Fx coverage much as before but no commentary position. Prep and post match interviews could be slick video-call type operations with the same gear moving from pre-match pitch side to post match interview rooms.
>
> The most obvious problem is that you are putting all your eggs in one basket.  If the uplink fails, then what?  It might be possible to back up everything locally on a mega-storage system and retransmit when the uplink fault is cleared, but you still lose remote control while it?s happening.
>
> It seems inevitable that this will become the way to do routine sports coverage.  A sports channel could use one central operation to cover three  live matches at 11:00, 15:00 and 19:00, all using the same system and crew it with two overlapping shifts.  Instead of a hundred people on site for each OB, there might be a little over twenty. Therefore on a day with three OBs, something like 200 fewer people would be sent to those stadia. It would be an accountant?s dream.
>
> I don?t ever see this working for big matches.  Apart from the technical limitations and risks, a major sports event attracts massive numbers of production people, together with various hangers-on, who insist that they simply have to be there on the day.  If there isn?t a big scanner to crowd into or a commentator to sit near, where can they go? Answers on a postcard please.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>> On 9 Jul 2021, at 17:14,paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  wrote:
>>
>> ?One of the 'new' ways to do this is to have Camera's, vision control, sound on the pitch & a sound guarantee, with a small truck at the ground, then bring all the individual cameras, mics etc back to a 'fixed ' control room /PCR. Typically you use 2 x UHD uplinks to bring back 8 (HD) cameras , with 32 audios.
>>
>> Producer, Director, VM, SS and all the EVS ops, along with the off tube comms are all 'back at the main Facilities'  and do not go to site (Saving on travel, hotels etc)
>> Delays, comms and tallies are the big issues as you might imagin.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Paul Thackray
>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>> 07802 243979
>> Mail;paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  
>> Web;http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>> Linkedin;http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>> IMDB;http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>
>>
>>

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Jul 12 02:30:46 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 08:30:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Modern OBs
Message-ID: <b5d6dae4-cadc-bd7f-1744-2f7f5dc2205f@gmail.com>

I'm sure I posted this before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmJ9O9_mLM

B
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Jul 12 02:51:04 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 08:51:04 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] 1966 Colour match
Message-ID: <60ebf469.1c69fb81.ba0c0.98e2@mx.google.com>

Many thanks to all those who provided the answers regarding the colour version of the 1966 World Cup match.
What little I saw of the transmission, looked extremely good, a first class job. Pity about the 35mm film ?going missing?. Another example of being consigned to the skip?
So much material that should have been archived has disappeared, but no-one envisaged that it was worth keeping for future use. Archiving takes up a lot of space, Ampex 2? quad tapes for instance, and whether there are machines left, capable of playing them. With each new media storage, means many hours re-transferring, but micro SD cards hold many Gb in a tiny fingernail size of unit. But the cost of paying someone to undertake the job......
The initial query spawned a wonderful tangent about slo-mo VT ? certainly BBC Engineering was innovative in that early field.
With regard to newer media storage ? I started collecting films that I had worked on, as 16mm and Super 8 prints, then when they became available on DVD, more expenditure to upgrade, then to Blu-Ray! Became an expensive hobby, but the sound is so much better off the discs!

Keep well, everyone
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



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From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Jul 12 03:45:11 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 09:45:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MOTD - and all that...
In-Reply-To: <20dd7749-78e2-f9f7-0759-3965e9b7186e@btinternet.com>
References: <20dd7749-78e2-f9f7-0759-3965e9b7186e@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <79848FB3-2D61-4527-82B9-3401453330FF@me.com>

Commentators instinctively want to have line of sight at the event, but many come round to realising that a suitably equipped off-tube commentary can be very satisfactory and even offer advantages. I did a series of rugby matches for S4C and they always had two commentators, one in Welsh, the other in English.  Some of the smaller grounds didn?t have much space for commentators and on one match, a commentator was positioned about six feet behind a camera in a booth with solid walls either side.  I thought he would make a huge fuss when he saw the commentary position with no view of the pitch, but he was quite happy and pointed out that the camera and cameraman would shield him from the biting wind.  He said that on cold days, off-tube commentating was his preference and that he would especially welcome it if the video and audio circuits could be piped to his house. 

It was a good call choosing Glensound to make the gear for the MICR.  They are a company who listen to users and try to improve their products in the light of the feedback they get.  Their gear is pretty reliable and generally suited to the abuse it gets on the road.  There are a few other companies who also take on board what users think and their products similarly benefit from feedback. 

I only made the most fleeting visit to the MICR as it wasn?t used on the type of shows I had much  interest in doing.  For instance, Wimbledon used 95% of the OB fleet for about three or four weeks every summer, but I only worked there about three times in a twenty year career. During much of the 70?s I worked on Seaside Special every year, which nicely kept me away from Wimbledon and once I found my feet as a sound supervisor, I did a lot of drama work which also meant being busy elsewhere during the summer. 

In my first year as a supervisor in ?80 or ?81, I did have to mix at Wimbledon and one thing which really surprised me was the way that outside courts coverage was handled by a collection of random small sound desks cobbled together with an obscene number of distribution amplifiers and parallel strips connected together with a rat?s nest of cables and adaptors.  Having been doing the house PA and monitor mix for Seaside Special for a few years, it seemed obvious to me that the requirements for covering the outside courts would be elegantly served by simply hiring in a large monitor mixer, offering lots of channels, but crucially a very large number of auxiliary outputs. All the microphones and feeds appeared on that one desk and any combination of sources could be fed to any combination of the many outputs.  Leigh Osborne was running a PA hire sideline at the time and he bought a massive all-singing, all-dancing monitor stage desk primarily with that role in mind.  It was hired for used use at Wimbledon the next year and for many years afterwards, proving to be a very profitable investment for him and a good solution for the coverage.

Talking of Leigh and Wimbledon, in the early 70s, he was SA1 and I was SA2 on the same unit.  We discovered that both our wives were pregnant and due virtually on the same day, which would be the second week of Wimbledon. Our lovely allocations lady, Grace, was warned about the prospect of us both needing simultaneous paternity leave during Wimbledon and was somewhat alarmed at the prospect of having to find replacements.  She joked that Leigh and I should have planned our respective carnal activities more considerately.  I pointed out to Grace that if she counted back 9 months, she had scheduled our unit to do a run of two or three programmes away from hone, culminating in the Burleigh horse trials for a week before being home for just one day before doing another show.  I pointed out to her that it was the inevitable consequences of her planning decisions.  She responded by saying that she has been accused of many things, but getting two women pregnant was something she never expected to be accused of.

As it happened, our two wives gave birth a day apart, just at the final weekend of Wimbledon.  Both of us were replaced by other staff, which meant that neither of us were there for the de-rig.  Our camera van, previously piled high with ill-gotten gains, stuff sneakily acquired from stores, useful things salvaged from skips, together with cables or gadgets we made, returned to base as a hollow shell with just the minimum basic load on it, while the camera vans of other units left Wimbledon laden with untold treasures. I think if we had realised how denuded our camera van was going to be, we might have decided to turn up just for the de-rig in order to get all our stuff back.

Alan Taylor

> On 12 Jul 2021, at 08:13, Hugh Sheppard <hughsheppard at btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
> ? Ah well, Alan; what goes around comes around. As the manager of most BBC operations for visiting commentators in the '70s and early '80s, the debate about being on-site or off-tube is still all too familiar. Suffice that in 1979, BBC Engineering allowed me, as an ex-tech-op renegade, to sully the pages of its monographs with a summary of how the new Mobile International Control Room (MICR1) and its Commentator Control Units led the way for on-site standards adopted by the EBU's members for major events for a generation. Do see the attached from the BBC Eng. monograph no. 113 from 1979. 
> 
> See: https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/BBC-Technical/BBC-Engineering/bbc-engineering-113-OCR.pdf  for better quality, but 'tis a large OCR file. 
> 
> Even today If you take M F R McKee's description of the original units built for the BBC by Glensound and compare the company's commentary units on its website, you'll see how the operational initiatives of Presentation and Kendal Avenue met the commentator's needs and have withstood the test of time  As for off-tube commentary, so essential to meet the demands of scattered Olympic events for the less well-resourced broadcasters, let alone the breadth of requirements of international networks such as Sky, to have an observer at the ground with 2-way contact probably completes most of the elements for a full 'you are there' viewer experience. Of course, the need for interviews and to be in-vision argues for an on-site presence, but otherwise who would know?
> 
> When the BBC sold off OB's in 2008 in its folly, the ?19m it received didn't quite cover all the contents of Kendal Avenue, so that both John Teather and I have a salvaged commentators unlt as a momento of those happy days. Of course, that paled 4 years later, when TV Centre went to the knacker's yard for just ?200m. But rest assured..  the BBC Finance Director at the time was bound to have known the price of everything....  need any more be said? 
> 
> Hugh    
> 
> On 11-Jul-21 11:05 AM, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> 
> 
> On 11-Jul-21 11:05 AM, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> It?s fascinating to see how technology can drastically change our industry.
>> 
>> Back in the late 1960s I started my career as a technical assistant, which was part of the engineering stream. I learnt to line up EMI 2001 cameras, using that impressive array of knobs on the CCU.  In conversation with Ron Gibbs, my vision supervisor, I argued that this was a prime task for automation because everything we adjusted was observed on an electronic display and was tweaked for a maximum, minimum or to a specified level.  I pointed out that if it was measured and controlled electronically, the task could be more easily automated.
>> 
>> ?Not in my lifetime, probably not in yours either? he said.  It?s worth recalling that integrated circuits were still to come into the mainstream and microprocessors were unheard of in those days.  However, by the 1980s we were seeing cameras which could largely line up themselves.  I certainly believed it would happen, but never expected it to happen in just over a decade.
>> 
>> Paul?s description of remote operation is something which has been discussed and predicted in one form or another many times in the past, it seems such an obvious thing to do, but of course trying to do for real comes with tremendous technical and operational challenges.
>> 
>> Satellite links sounded promising, but years ago you would have needed loads of them to get that many signal chains out of the site, therefore I had expected that optical fibre was going to be the solution, which would also have reduced delays.  
>> 
>> I?ve spoken to many a commentator about the difference between commentating at the stadium or off-tube and many argue that they need to see the wider view of the match which is only possible in the stadium.  They also point to the need to do post match interviews in person.  The recent experience of having to work around Covid has forced people to try new ideas.  FaceTime or Zoom interviews are seen on TV every day. There?s no reason why post match interviews wouldn?t work in a similar video-call manner.  An off-tube commentary could be done using multiple screens as every camera would be available via a router, therefore the comm could simultaneously view the transmission coverage, a wide angle shot, close ups of the benches and still choose additional views. They could also have more room for their notes in a studio, particularly if commentary booths were made larger.
>> 
>> The obvious extension of that idea is that some of the less critical cameras could be remotely or even automatically operated.  The technology used to electronically track players on the pitch might also automatically point a camera at a selected player. 
>> 
>> There is one obvious drawback to having fewer people on site.  There will be fewer people available to do the rig and de-rig.  Some of the cameras could be smaller, which would help, but the lenses required to get the tight close ups are not going to shrink much, so there?s still going to be a lot of heavy gear to move around. Sound-wise and video monitor-wise it?s probably swings and roundabouts.  Fx coverage much as before but no commentary position. Prep and post match interviews could be slick video-call type operations with the same gear moving from pre-match pitch side to post match interview rooms. 
>> 
>> The most obvious problem is that you are putting all your eggs in one basket.  If the uplink fails, then what?  It might be possible to back up everything locally on a mega-storage system and retransmit when the uplink fault is cleared, but you still lose remote control while it?s happening.
>> 
>> It seems inevitable that this will become the way to do routine sports coverage.  A sports channel could use one central operation to cover three  live matches at 11:00, 15:00 and 19:00, all using the same system and crew it with two overlapping shifts.  Instead of a hundred people on site for each OB, there might be a little over twenty. Therefore on a day with three OBs, something like 200 fewer people would be sent to those stadia. It would be an accountant?s dream. 
>> 
>> I don?t ever see this working for big matches.  Apart from the technical limitations and risks, a major sports event attracts massive numbers of production people, together with various hangers-on, who insist that they simply have to be there on the day.  If there isn?t a big scanner to crowd into or a commentator to sit near, where can they go? Answers on a postcard please. 
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>>> On 9 Jul 2021, at 17:14, paul at pgtmedia.co.uk wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?One of the 'new' ways to do this is to have Camera's, vision control, sound on the pitch & a sound guarantee, with a small truck at the ground, then bring all the individual cameras, mics etc back to a 'fixed ' control room /PCR. Typically you use 2 x UHD uplinks to bring back 8 (HD) cameras , with 32 audios.
>>> 
>>> Producer, Director, VM, SS and all the EVS ops, along with the off tube comms are all 'back at the main Facilities'  and do not go to site (Saving on travel, hotels etc)
>>> Delays, comms and tallies are the big issues as you might imagin.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> Paul Thackray
>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>> 07802 243979
>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk 
>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> <compressed_bbc-engineering-113-Pages 13-23 Cute.Sedja.pdf>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Jul 12 04:47:46 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:47:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Modern OBs
In-Reply-To: <b5d6dae4-cadc-bd7f-1744-2f7f5dc2205f@gmail.com>
References: <b5d6dae4-cadc-bd7f-1744-2f7f5dc2205f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60ec0fc2.1c69fb81.5d404.9f6c@mx.google.com>

Fascinating, Bernie.
I was involved shooting sound for a documentary series for BBC, ?The Team ? A Season with Mclaren? (Story attached, which I may have posted before).
In 1993, the cars? on-board cameras were fired up to a hovering helicopter, then bounced down to a ground-level van. By paying Bernie Ecclestone molto dollari, access was granted to this footage as well as the trackside cameras, since we only had one single roving Betacam.
I don?t think I want to hear another F1 car!
Best
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 12 July 2021 08:31
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Modern OBs

I'm sure I posted this before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmJ9O9_mLM

B



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From colin at colinhassell.com  Mon Jul 12 05:41:03 2021
From: colin at colinhassell.com (Colin Hassell)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:41:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MOTD - and all that...
In-Reply-To: <79848FB3-2D61-4527-82B9-3401453330FF@me.com>
References: <20dd7749-78e2-f9f7-0759-3965e9b7186e@btinternet.com>
	<79848FB3-2D61-4527-82B9-3401453330FF@me.com>
Message-ID: <D9682CAD-513F-49CC-B247-A9E815C68E2D@colinhassell.com>

?He said that on cold days, off-tube commentating was his preference and that he would especially welcome it if the video and audio circuits could be piped to his house.?

And as if by magic:

https://twitter.com/IanDarke/status/1255617884988026880 <https://twitter.com/IanDarke/status/1255617884988026880>

But then there are other issues:

https://twitter.com/IanDarke/status/1261956309357932544?s=09 <https://twitter.com/IanDarke/status/1261956309357932544?s=09>



Colin Hassell

colin at colinhassell.com <mailto:colin at colinhassell.com>
+44-(0)7973-802722
St Albans, Herts, UK

> On 12 Jul 2021, at 09:45, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Commentators instinctively want to have line of sight at the event, but many come round to realising that a suitably equipped off-tube commentary can be very satisfactory and even offer advantages. I did a series of rugby matches for S4C and they always had two commentators, one in Welsh, the other in English.  Some of the smaller grounds didn?t have much space for commentators and on one match, a commentator was positioned about six feet behind a camera in a booth with solid walls either side.  I thought he would make a huge fuss when he saw the commentary position with no view of the pitch, but he was quite happy and pointed out that the camera and cameraman would shield him from the biting wind.  He said that on cold days, off-tube commentating was his preference and that he would especially welcome it if the video and audio circuits could be piped to his house. 
> 
> It was a good call choosing Glensound to make the gear for the MICR.  They are a company who listen to users and try to improve their products in the light of the feedback they get.  Their gear is pretty reliable and generally suited to the abuse it gets on the road.  There are a few other companies who also take on board what users think and their products similarly benefit from feedback. 
> 
> I only made the most fleeting visit to the MICR as it wasn?t used on the type of shows I had much  interest in doing.  For instance, Wimbledon used 95% of the OB fleet for about three or four weeks every summer, but I only worked there about three times in a twenty year career. During much of the 70?s I worked on Seaside Special every year, which nicely kept me away from Wimbledon and once I found my feet as a sound supervisor, I did a lot of drama work which also meant being busy elsewhere during the summer. 
> 
> In my first year as a supervisor in ?80 or ?81, I did have to mix at Wimbledon and one thing which really surprised me was the way that outside courts coverage was handled by a collection of random small sound desks cobbled together with an obscene number of distribution amplifiers and parallel strips connected together with a rat?s nest of cables and adaptors.  Having been doing the house PA and monitor mix for Seaside Special for a few years, it seemed obvious to me that the requirements for covering the outside courts would be elegantly served by simply hiring in a large monitor mixer, offering lots of channels, but crucially a very large number of auxiliary outputs. All the microphones and feeds appeared on that one desk and any combination of sources could be fed to any combination of the many outputs.  Leigh Osborne was running a PA hire sideline at the time and he bought a massive all-singing, all-dancing monitor stage desk primarily with that role in mind.  It was hired for used use at Wimbledon the next year and for many years afterwards, proving to be a very profitable investment for him and a good solution for the coverage.
> 
> Talking of Leigh and Wimbledon, in the early 70s, he was SA1 and I was SA2 on the same unit.  We discovered that both our wives were pregnant and due virtually on the same day, which would be the second week of Wimbledon. Our lovely allocations lady, Grace, was warned about the prospect of us both needing simultaneous paternity leave during Wimbledon and was somewhat alarmed at the prospect of having to find replacements.  She joked that Leigh and I should have planned our respective carnal activities more considerately.  I pointed out to Grace that if she counted back 9 months, she had scheduled our unit to do a run of two or three programmes away from hone, culminating in the Burleigh horse trials for a week before being home for just one day before doing another show.  I pointed out to her that it was the inevitable consequences of her planning decisions.  She responded by saying that she has been accused of many things, but getting two women pregnant was something she never expected to be accused of.
> 
> As it happened, our two wives gave birth a day apart, just at the final weekend of Wimbledon.  Both of us were replaced by other staff, which meant that neither of us were there for the de-rig.  Our camera van, previously piled high with ill-gotten gains, stuff sneakily acquired from stores, useful things salvaged from skips, together with cables or gadgets we made, returned to base as a hollow shell with just the minimum basic load on it, while the camera vans of other units left Wimbledon laden with untold treasures. I think if we had realised how denuded our camera van was going to be, we might have decided to turn up just for the de-rig in order to get all our stuff back.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
>> On 12 Jul 2021, at 08:13, Hugh Sheppard <hughsheppard at btinternet.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ? Ah well, Alan; what goes around comes around. As the manager of most BBC operations for visiting commentators in the '70s and early '80s, the debate about being on-site or off-tube is still all too familiar. Suffice that in 1979, BBC Engineering allowed me, as an ex-tech-op renegade, to sully the pages of its monographs with a summary of how the new Mobile International Control Room (MICR1) and its Commentator Control Units led the way for on-site standards adopted by the EBU's members for major events for a generation. Do see the attached from the BBC Eng. monograph no. 113 from 1979. 
>> 
>> See: https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/BBC-Technical/BBC-Engineering/bbc-engineering-113-OCR.pdf <https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/BBC-Technical/BBC-Engineering/bbc-engineering-113-OCR.pdf>  for better quality, but 'tis a large OCR file. 
>> 
>> Even today If you take M F R McKee's description of the original units built for the BBC by Glensound and compare the company's commentary units on its website, you'll see how the operational initiatives of Presentation and Kendal Avenue met the commentator's needs and have withstood the test of time  As for off-tube commentary, so essential to meet the demands of scattered Olympic events for the less well-resourced broadcasters, let alone the breadth of requirements of international networks such as Sky, to have an observer at the ground with 2-way contact probably completes most of the elements for a full 'you are there' viewer experience. Of course, the need for interviews and to be in-vision argues for an on-site presence, but otherwise who would know?
>> 
>> When the BBC sold off OB's in 2008 in its folly, the ?19m it received didn't quite cover all the contents of Kendal Avenue, so that both John Teather and I have a salvaged commentators unlt as a momento of those happy days. Of course, that paled 4 years later, when TV Centre went to the knacker's yard for just ?200m. But rest assured..  the BBC Finance Director at the time was bound to have known the price of everything....  need any more be said? 
>> 
>> Hugh    
>> 
>> On 11-Jul-21 11:05 AM, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 11-Jul-21 11:05 AM, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>> It?s fascinating to see how technology can drastically change our industry.
>>> 
>>> Back in the late 1960s I started my career as a technical assistant, which was part of the engineering stream. I learnt to line up EMI 2001 cameras, using that impressive array of knobs on the CCU.  In conversation with Ron Gibbs, my vision supervisor, I argued that this was a prime task for automation because everything we adjusted was observed on an electronic display and was tweaked for a maximum, minimum or to a specified level.  I pointed out that if it was measured and controlled electronically, the task could be more easily automated.
>>> 
>>> ?Not in my lifetime, probably not in yours either? he said.  It?s worth recalling that integrated circuits were still to come into the mainstream and microprocessors were unheard of in those days.  However, by the 1980s we were seeing cameras which could largely line up themselves.  I certainly believed it would happen, but never expected it to happen in just over a decade.
>>> 
>>> Paul?s description of remote operation is something which has been discussed and predicted in one form or another many times in the past, it seems such an obvious thing to do, but of course trying to do for real comes with tremendous technical and operational challenges.
>>> 
>>> Satellite links sounded promising, but years ago you would have needed loads of them to get that many signal chains out of the site, therefore I had expected that optical fibre was going to be the solution, which would also have reduced delays.  
>>> 
>>> I?ve spoken to many a commentator about the difference between commentating at the stadium or off-tube and many argue that they need to see the wider view of the match which is only possible in the stadium.  They also point to the need to do post match interviews in person.  The recent experience of having to work around Covid has forced people to try new ideas.  FaceTime or Zoom interviews are seen on TV every day. There?s no reason why post match interviews wouldn?t work in a similar video-call manner.  An off-tube commentary could be done using multiple screens as every camera would be available via a router, therefore the comm could simultaneously view the transmission coverage, a wide angle shot, close ups of the benches and still choose additional views. They could also have more room for their notes in a studio, particularly if commentary booths were made larger.
>>> 
>>> The obvious extension of that idea is that some of the less critical cameras could be remotely or even automatically operated.  The technology used to electronically track players on the pitch might also automatically point a camera at a selected player. 
>>> 
>>> There is one obvious drawback to having fewer people on site.  There will be fewer people available to do the rig and de-rig.  Some of the cameras could be smaller, which would help, but the lenses required to get the tight close ups are not going to shrink much, so there?s still going to be a lot of heavy gear to move around. Sound-wise and video monitor-wise it?s probably swings and roundabouts.  Fx coverage much as before but no commentary position. Prep and post match interviews could be slick video-call type operations with the same gear moving from pre-match pitch side to post match interview rooms. 
>>> 
>>> The most obvious problem is that you are putting all your eggs in one basket.  If the uplink fails, then what?  It might be possible to back up everything locally on a mega-storage system and retransmit when the uplink fault is cleared, but you still lose remote control while it?s happening.
>>> 
>>> It seems inevitable that this will become the way to do routine sports coverage.  A sports channel could use one central operation to cover three  live matches at 11:00, 15:00 and 19:00, all using the same system and crew it with two overlapping shifts.  Instead of a hundred people on site for each OB, there might be a little over twenty. Therefore on a day with three OBs, something like 200 fewer people would be sent to those stadia. It would be an accountant?s dream. 
>>> 
>>> I don?t ever see this working for big matches.  Apart from the technical limitations and risks, a major sports event attracts massive numbers of production people, together with various hangers-on, who insist that they simply have to be there on the day.  If there isn?t a big scanner to crowd into or a commentator to sit near, where can they go? Answers on a postcard please. 
>>> 
>>> Alan Taylor
>>> 
>>>> On 9 Jul 2021, at 17:14, paul at pgtmedia.co.uk <mailto:paul at pgtmedia.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?One of the 'new' ways to do this is to have Camera's, vision control, sound on the pitch & a sound guarantee, with a small truck at the ground, then bring all the individual cameras, mics etc back to a 'fixed ' control room /PCR. Typically you use 2 x UHD uplinks to bring back 8 (HD) cameras , with 32 audios.
>>>> 
>>>> Producer, Director, VM, SS and all the EVS ops, along with the off tube comms are all 'back at the main Facilities'  and do not go to site (Saving on travel, hotels etc)
>>>> Delays, comms and tallies are the big issues as you might imagin.
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> 
>>>> Paul Thackray
>>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>>> 07802 243979
>>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk <mailto:paul at pgtmedia.co.uk> 
>>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk <http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk/>
>>>> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746 <http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746>
>>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/ <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> <compressed_bbc-engineering-113-Pages 13-23 Cute.Sedja.pdf>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Mon Jul 12 10:42:23 2021
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 16:42:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] MOTD
In-Reply-To: <3BD09FC2-A175-4675-9724-DA14AB1E1A92@me.com>
Message-ID: <g43c0ucmig4tjf3hq4sokrtq.1626104543913@pgtmedia.co.uk>

Alan, fibre is much easier delay wise, but only if it exists. If you go to a Premier League ground, fibre is no issue, if it's a National League , no Fibre and only enough internet to run the bar credit card machine. 

2 uhd uplink s gives you 8 HD links. You split the cameras across the 2 giving options if one fails. Back up is something like a mobile view point (MVP) which sends one feed via about 7 4G sim cards bonded together to give a slightly delayed feed. The one camera would follow the action if all else fails! SIM cards are split across a couple of providers (02 EE vodaphone ) 

Remote is a good way of covering things like National League which would never be economic in a traditional way. 

Covid has pushed this sort of operation for the main stream (with some ob providers providing both the ob part and remote operation center - at their ob base) 

At most matches its not the comms who do the interviews , it's a seperate reporter. 
The reporter is on site, the comms either off tube at base or at home (as per Colins e mail)

The de rig is not an issue if you always work at the studio (dry!) end 

Paul


Paul Thackray
PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
+44 7802 243979
Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
Linkedin;?? http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/



	? Original Message ?	


From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 11 July 2021 11:05
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Reply to: alanaudio at me.com
Subject: Re: [Tech1] MOTD


It?s fascinating to see how technology can drastically change our industry.

Back in the late 1960s I started my career as a technical assistant, which was part of the engineering stream. I learnt to line up EMI 2001 cameras, using that impressive array of knobs on the CCU.? In conversation with Ron Gibbs, my vision supervisor, I argued that this was a prime task for automation because everything we adjusted was observed on an electronic display and was tweaked for a maximum, minimum or to a specified level.? I pointed out that if it was measured and controlled electronically, the task could be more easily automated.

?Not in my lifetime, probably not in yours either? he said.? It?s worth recalling that integrated circuits were still to come into the mainstream and microprocessors were unheard of in those days.? However, by the 1980s we were seeing cameras which could largely line up themselves.? I certainly believed it would happen, but never expected it to happen in just over a decade.

Paul?s description of remote operation is something which has been discussed and predicted in one form or another many times in the past, it seems such an obvious thing to do, but of course trying to do for real comes with tremendous technical and operational challenges.

Satellite links sounded promising, but years ago you would have needed loads of them to get that many signal chains out of the site, therefore I had expected that optical fibre was going to be the solution, which would also have reduced delays.?

I?ve spoken to many a commentator about the difference between commentating at the stadium or off-tube and many argue that they need to see the wider view of the match which is only possible in the stadium.? They also point to the need to do post match interviews in person.? The recent experience of having to work around Covid has forced people to try new ideas.? FaceTime or Zoom interviews are seen on TV every day. There?s no reason why post match interviews wouldn?t work in a similar video-call manner.? An off-tube commentary could be done using multiple screens as every camera would be available via a router, therefore the comm could simultaneously view the transmission coverage, a wide angle shot, close ups of the benches and still choose additional views. They could also have more room for their notes in a studio, particularly if commentary booths were made larger.

The obvious extension of that idea is that some of the less critical cameras could be remotely or even automatically operated.? The technology used to electronically track players on the pitch might also automatically point a camera at a selected player.

There is one obvious drawback to having fewer people on site.? There will be fewer people available to do the rig and de-rig.? Some of the cameras could be smaller, which would help, but the lenses required to get the tight close ups are not going to shrink much, so there?s still going to be a lot of heavy gear to move around. Sound-wise and video monitor-wise it?s probably swings and roundabouts.? Fx coverage much as before but no commentary position. Prep and post match interviews could be slick video-call type operations with the same gear moving from pre-match pitch side to post match interview rooms.

The most obvious problem is that you are putting all your eggs in one basket.? If the uplink fails, then what?? It might be possible to back up everything locally on a mega-storage system and retransmit when the uplink fault is cleared, but you still lose remote control while it?s happening.

It seems inevitable that this will become the way to do routine sports coverage.? A sports channel could use one central operation to cover three? live matches at 11:00, 15:00 and 19:00, all using the same system and crew it with two overlapping shifts.? Instead of a hundred people on site for each OB, there might be a little over twenty. Therefore on a day with three OBs, something like 200 fewer people would be sent to those stadia. It would be an accountant?s dream.

I don?t ever see this working for big matches.? Apart from the technical limitations and risks, a major sports event attracts massive numbers of production people, together with various hangers-on, who insist that they simply have to be there on the day.? If there isn?t a big scanner to crowd into or a commentator to sit near, where can they go? Answers on a postcard please.

Alan Taylor

> On 9 Jul 2021, at 17:14, paul at pgtmedia.co.uk wrote:
>
> ?One of the 'new' ways to do this is to have Camera's, vision control, sound on the pitch & a sound guarantee, with a small truck at the ground, then bring all the individual cameras, mics etc back to a 'fixed ' control room /PCR. Typically you use 2 x UHD uplinks to bring back 8 (HD) cameras , with 32 audios.
>
> Producer, Director, VM, SS and all the EVS ops, along with the off tube comms are all 'back at the main Facilities'? and do not go to site (Saving on travel, hotels etc)
> Delays, comms and tallies are the big issues as you might imagin.
>
> Paul
>
> Paul Thackray
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
> 07802 243979
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
> Linkedin;?? http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>
>
>

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From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 15 05:27:44 2021
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2021 11:27:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Wood Norton event
Message-ID: <939DE1AD-8CFC-439D-900A-746DAAAC84CD@btinternet.com>

Anyone interested in this?
They want a speaker Wood Norton is Evesham.
You can contact Jennie yourselves.
Best Albert


https://www.richmond-villages.com/retirement-villages/wood-norton

They would like an ex-BBC engineer/employee from Wood Norton who wouldn?t mind acting as a bit of a guest speaker for our event? This event is to herald a care home development on the site of Wood Norton. They wondered if now we have the preferred date whether we could help gauge availability of a few people? So far nothing from Tec, Ops.
It maybe they didn?t work there themselves but have a lot of history/experience of the site and can talk confidently about its important heritage.
 
They are working on an invite as such for the event to confirm all details with you so that as many of the BBC ex staff etc, but they firstly wanted to see if someone might be available to speak on that date first and foremost.

Jennie Wildig
PR Business Director, McCann Manchester
M: 07701070847
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jul 15 05:44:24 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2021 11:44:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Wood Norton event
In-Reply-To: <939DE1AD-8CFC-439D-900A-746DAAAC84CD@btinternet.com>
References: <939DE1AD-8CFC-439D-900A-746DAAAC84CD@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <60f01188.1c69fb81.2c416.63bf@mx.google.com>

No date given! Jennie wouldn?t last long in the Allocations Office, methinks!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Albert Barber via Tech1
Sent: 15 July 2021 11:28Jennie wouldn?t last long in the Allocations Office, methinks
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Wood Norton event

Anyone interested in this?
They want a speaker Wood Norton is Evesham.
You can contact Jennie yourselves.
Best Albert


https://www.richmond-villages.com/retirement-villages/wood-norton

They would like an ex-BBC engineer/employee from Wood Norton who wouldn?t mind acting as a bit of a guest speaker for our event? This event is to herald a care home development on the site of Wood Norton. They wondered if now we have the preferred date whether we could help gauge availability of a few people? So far nothing from Tec, Ops.
It maybe they didn?t work there themselves but have a lot of history/experience of the site and can talk confidently about its important heritage.
?
They are working on an invite as such for the event to confirm all details with you so that as many of the BBC ex staff etc, but they firstly wanted to see if someone might be available to speak on that date first and foremost.

Jennie Wildig
PR Business Director, McCann Manchester
M: 07701070847



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From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 15 10:24:01 2021
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2021 16:24:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] [Announce] Frank Smith
In-Reply-To: <0EC2A65F-2EB4-41E7-808C-4D92820CC3B1@gmail.com>
References: <FE79014BB064415A81D78508584125FE@dell9100>
	<0EC2A65F-2EB4-41E7-808C-4D92820CC3B1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <77E17914-37B7-49DF-B882-B403D03B1B27@btinternet.com>

Anyone know where to get VHS splicing tape to mend an old VHS tape?
Thanks
AB

> On 15 Jul 2021, at 16:09, Geoffrey Hawkes via Announce <announce at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Are we talking about the same Frank Smith as the one I?m thinking of who was a Pres engineer/ S.Tel. E? I need to be clear in case I?ve got the wrong person, which could be embarrassing if I turned up at the funeral and it was of a complete stranger,
> Geoff Hawkes ?
> 
>> On 15 Jul 2021, at 15:56, Chris on gmail via Announce <announce at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?As many of you may rember Frank was no mean clarinetist
>> 
>> and headed a trad band "Jazz Unlucky" on TO13
>> 
>> Hiding through my loft Ive found 2 LPs we cut as part of our course exercise 8 may 1962
>> disc 1 Tuxedo Junction and the Lady is a Tramp
>> disc 2  Who's Sorry Now, Blue Moon
>> they are very scratched especially disc 2
>> 
>> 
>> But if someone has the were-with-all to extract and clean up even one track
>> im sure it would be a nice supprise for the family
>> 
>> Chris Glass
>> 01895 635063
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Announce mailing list
>> Announce at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Announce mailing list
> Announce at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce_tech-ops.co.uk



From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 15 14:58:37 2021
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2021 20:58:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Wood Norton event
In-Reply-To: <939DE1AD-8CFC-439D-900A-746DAAAC84CD@btinternet.com>
References: <939DE1AD-8CFC-439D-900A-746DAAAC84CD@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <A474709C-D26A-48F7-903B-5431A23F4902@btinternet.com>

I forgot to add they are welcoming all BBC staff who want a free get together. Tea and buns with perhaps some alcohol too.

Best Albert


> On 15 Jul 2021, at 11:27, Albert Barber <ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
> Anyone interested in this?
> They want a speaker Wood Norton is Evesham.
> You can contact Jennie yourselves.
> Best Albert
> 
> 
> https://www.richmond-villages.com/retirement-villages/wood-norton <https://www.richmond-villages.com/retirement-villages/wood-norton>
> 
> They would like an ex-BBC engineer/employee from Wood Norton who wouldn?t mind acting as a bit of a guest speaker for our event? This event is to herald a care home development on the site of Wood Norton. They wondered if now we have the preferred date whether we could help gauge availability of a few people? So far nothing from Tec, Ops.
> It maybe they didn?t work there themselves but have a lot of history/experience of the site and can talk confidently about its important heritage.
>  
> They are working on an invite as such for the event to confirm all details with you so that as many of the BBC ex staff etc, but they firstly wanted to see if someone might be available to speak on that date first and foremost.
> 
> Jennie Wildig
> PR Business Director, McCann Manchester
> M: 07701070847

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jul 15 16:18:05 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2021 22:18:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
Message-ID: <60f0a60e.1c69fb81.1fc20.4ee3@mx.google.com>

Last night, looking for something to watch, I lit upon The Repair Shop. Expecting to be bored ? on the contrary, I was amazed at the skills exhibited by the restorers, quite brilliant and fascinating. Also very emotional when the finished result was presented to the owners, when they saw what had been achieved to their prized possessions.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 15 16:36:01 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2021 22:36:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <60f0a60e.1c69fb81.1fc20.4ee3@mx.google.com>
References: <60f0a60e.1c69fb81.1fc20.4ee3@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <45ad3b2c-6b1a-2cb5-6ced-03c8ee789567@btinternet.com>

I think that you are well behing the rest of us, Pat! It has been my 
favourite programme from the start! I wish that they would put up a 
simple caption after each amazing repair with the time taken, the cost 
and the materials used! Who knows where to buy Pearl Glue or Shellac 
Polish? Their pool of the many craft experts is well worth publishing 
also! It's nice to knw that we still have them available in the country. 
Cheers, Dave

On 15/07/2021 22:18, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Last night, looking for something to watch, I lit upon The Repair 
> Shop. Expecting to be bored ? on the contrary, I was amazed at the 
> skills exhibited by the restorers, quite brilliant and fascinating. 
> Also very emotional when the finished result was presented to the 
> owners, when they saw what had been achieved to their prized possessions.
>
> Pat
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 15 18:53:05 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 00:53:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Video files
Message-ID: <1cc08884-517d-629e-c470-29851f44e582@btinternet.com>

I wonder if any of you clever-clogs out there, geniarses that you are, 
can explain to me why, which ever software video player I use, (vlc, 
Gom, Pot, MPC-HC) the video will not start immediately, then it starts 
at very high speed for a few seconds, then it goes very slowly for a few 
more seconds and then plays at a normal speed. Is it my nVidia graphics 
card or is it something else? Help, it's driving me mad! Cheers, Dave



From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 16 04:04:55 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 10:04:55 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Video files
In-Reply-To: <1cc08884-517d-629e-c470-29851f44e582@btinternet.com>
References: <1cc08884-517d-629e-c470-29851f44e582@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <360677bf-e6eb-13aa-44e8-e5c7ca0bbf77@ntlworld.com>

One particular video, or all videos?

If it's one only, try putting it through Handbrake.

B



On 16/07/2021 00:53, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
> I wonder if any of you clever-clogs out there, geniarses that you are, 
> can explain to me why, which ever software video player I use, (vlc, 
> Gom, Pot, MPC-HC) the video will not start immediately, then it starts 
> at very high speed for a few seconds, then it goes very slowly for a 
> few more seconds and then plays at a normal speed. Is it my nVidia 
> graphics card or is it something else? Help, it's driving me mad! 
> Cheers, Dave
>
>

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 16 04:05:07 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 10:05:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Video files
In-Reply-To: <1cc08884-517d-629e-c470-29851f44e582@btinternet.com>
References: <1cc08884-517d-629e-c470-29851f44e582@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <bba75dcf-88f0-a7cf-abc2-1c98a5cd1a93@gmail.com>

One particular video, or all videos?

If it's one only, try putting it through Handbrake.

B



On 16/07/2021 00:53, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
> I wonder if any of you clever-clogs out there, geniarses that you are, 
> can explain to me why, which ever software video player I use, (vlc, 
> Gom, Pot, MPC-HC) the video will not start immediately, then it starts 
> at very high speed for a few seconds, then it goes very slowly for a 
> few more seconds and then plays at a normal speed. Is it my nVidia 
> graphics card or is it something else? Help, it's driving me mad! 
> Cheers, Dave
>
>

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From waresound at msn.com  Fri Jul 16 04:52:26 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 09:52:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Video files
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB198158FF69F8C49BC16ABA35A7119@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>


Gissa few details, Dave. Not a phenomenon I?ve ever encountered, but?.
?Is it a file you?re playing, or something online (Youtube, Dropbox, etc)? 
Is the computer and/or operating system new, old, PC, Mac, etc.? If it?s Mac, that?s uncharted territory to me.
Has it only just started doing it?
Are video card?s drivers up to date, and any necessary codecs installed?
Is there a load of other stuff running, hogging the system?s resources?
VLC should cope with just about anything you throw at it.
If it?s a weird video file format, ?Any Video Converter? is an invaluable tool to have.
Etc, etc.
Beyond the above, I can?t come up with any other suggestions. We?re in Menorca with brains in partial standby mode, and what is running is taxing our patience somewhat with Covid online testing, paperwork, barcodes, QR codes etc, etc. (Wear a mask - don?t wear a mask, go to work - don?t go to work, fly - don?t fly, vaguaries, etc.)
If we didn?t have daughter?s wedding in August we?d be very tempted to just stay here till the end of September!
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 16 Jul 2021, at 01:53, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?I wonder if any of you clever-clogs out there, geniarses that you are, can explain to me why, which ever software video player I use, (vlc, Gom, Pot, MPC-HC) the video will not start immediately, then it starts at very high speed for a few seconds, then it goes very slowly for a few more seconds and then plays at a normal speed. Is it my nVidia graphics card or is it something else? Help, it's driving me mad! Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Fri Jul 16 04:56:15 2021
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 10:56:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] [Announce] Frank Smith
In-Reply-To: <FE79014BB064415A81D78508584125FE@dell9100>
References: <CAA7MLyH5QV1oT-yUKyuf1HKuL68Shbt7tMKGayHgYcOZTCFcQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<FE79014BB064415A81D78508584125FE@dell9100>
Message-ID: <2EF016AF-6D98-4087-AE5C-6D2D8EDBE5BC@btinternet.com>

Hi All,
	I?ve been asked by Nigel Phillips if anybody remembers the time that Frank was on attachment to Tech Ops. I think it was in the mid eighties.

Frank was a frequent visitor to our lunches in various Buckinghamshire pubs following the Thursday BBC Network engineers (and the odd Tech Ops) walking group's outings.

Herewith a picture of Frank enjoying his lunch! (Tony Richey & Dave Lawton in the background)

	Barry.




On 15 Jul 2021, at 15:55, Chris on gmail via Announce <announce at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> As many of you may rember Frank was no mean clarinetist
> 
> and headed a trad band "Jazz Unlucky" on TO13
> 
> Hiding through my loft Ive found 2 LPs we cut as part of our course exercise 8 may 1962
> disc 1 Tuxedo Junction and the Lady is a Tramp
> disc 2  Who's Sorry Now, Blue Moon
> they are very scratched especially disc 2
> 
> 
> But if someone has the were-with-all to extract and clean up even one track
> im sure it would be a nice supprise for the family
> 
> Chris Glass
> 01895 635063
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Announce mailing list
> Announce at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce_tech-ops.co.uk

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Jul 16 05:49:21 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:49:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <45ad3b2c-6b1a-2cb5-6ced-03c8ee789567@btinternet.com>
References: <60f0a60e.1c69fb81.1fc20.4ee3@mx.google.com>
	<45ad3b2c-6b1a-2cb5-6ced-03c8ee789567@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <60f16432.1c69fb81.21895.da97@mx.google.com>

Yes, I hadn?t watched it previously. I wondered how the programme makers had sourced the experts in the various skills required. Years ago I took my teddy bear, which had been my father?s, so must now be over a hundred years old, to a restorer in Petersfield, who made a new ear for him. (Happy New ear!)
Furniture restorers can be found on the Internet, but what about the other skills?
Re: furniture restoration, I believe that unless the old style glues etc. are used, it detracts from a possible high worth.
Best wishes
Pat
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: dave.mdv
Sent: 15 July 2021 22:36
To: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Repair Shop

I think that you are well behing the rest of us, Pat! It has been my favourite programme from the start! I wish that they would put up a simple caption after each amazing repair with the time taken, the cost and the materials used! Who knows where to buy Pearl Glue or Shellac Polish? Their pool of the many craft experts is well worth publishing also! It's nice to knw that we still have them available in the country. Cheers, Dave
On 15/07/2021 22:18, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
Last night, looking for something to watch, I lit upon The Repair Shop. Expecting to be bored ? on the contrary, I was amazed at the skills exhibited by the restorers, quite brilliant and fascinating. Also very emotional when the finished result was presented to the owners, when they saw what had been achieved to their prized possessions.
Pat
?
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
?



This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
www.avast.com 






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From peter.neill at icloud.com  Fri Jul 16 05:52:40 2021
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:52:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <60f16432.1c69fb81.21895.da97@mx.google.com>
References: <60f0a60e.1c69fb81.1fc20.4ee3@mx.google.com>
	<45ad3b2c-6b1a-2cb5-6ced-03c8ee789567@btinternet.com>
	<60f16432.1c69fb81.21895.da97@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <345437FA-A572-4494-A548-2B52E0F3B908@icloud.com>

I also watched it for the first time this week.

I could have done with, perhaps, one fewer item and a bit more actual restoration.



Peter Neill





> On 16 Jul 2021, at 11:49, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Yes, I hadn?t watched it previously. I wondered how the programme makers had sourced the experts in the various skills required. Years ago I took my teddy bear, which had been my father?s, so must now be over a hundred years old, to a restorer in Petersfield, who made a new ear for him. (Happy New ear!)
> Furniture restorers can be found on the Internet, but what about the other skills?
> Re: furniture restoration, I believe that unless the old style glues etc. are used, it detracts from a possible high worth.
> Best wishes
> Pat
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
> From: dave.mdv <mailto:dave.mdv at btinternet.com>
> Sent: 15 July 2021 22:36
> To: patheigham <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
>  
> I think that you are well behing the rest of us, Pat! It has been my favourite programme from the start! I wish that they would put up a simple caption after each amazing repair with the time taken, the cost and the materials used! Who knows where to buy Pearl Glue or Shellac Polish? Their pool of the many craft experts is well worth publishing also! It's nice to knw that we still have them available in the country. Cheers, Dave
> 
> On 15/07/2021 22:18, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
> Last night, looking for something to watch, I lit upon The Repair Shop. Expecting to be bored ? on the contrary, I was amazed at the skills exhibited by the restorers, quite brilliant and fascinating. Also very emotional when the finished result was presented to the owners, when they saw what had been achieved to their prized possessions.
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
>  
> 
> <2E50F526432A40DBAC719FF171400612.png>
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> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Jul 16 06:16:57 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 12:16:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <345437FA-A572-4494-A548-2B52E0F3B908@icloud.com>
References: <60f0a60e.1c69fb81.1fc20.4ee3@mx.google.com>
	<45ad3b2c-6b1a-2cb5-6ced-03c8ee789567@btinternet.com>
	<60f16432.1c69fb81.21895.da97@mx.google.com>
	<345437FA-A572-4494-A548-2B52E0F3B908@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <60f16aaa.1c69fb81.79515.02cc@mx.google.com>

When the chap was making a new handle for ?Neddy? the child walker, I knew that plumbers use a curly spring to prevent the pipe flattening when bending ? maybe there wasn?t a suitable size ?spring? to fit the bore, so he had to use sand fill ? but was it left in?
Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Peter Neill via Tech1
Sent: 16 July 2021 11:53
To: Tech Ops List
Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Repair Shop

I also watched it for the first time this week.

I could have done with, perhaps, one fewer item and a bit more actual restoration.



Peter Neill





On 16 Jul 2021, at 11:49, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

Yes, I hadn?t watched it previously. I wondered how the programme makers had sourced the experts in the various skills required. Years ago I took my teddy bear, which had been my father?s, so must now be over a hundred years old, to a restorer in Petersfield, who made a new ear for him. (Happy New ear!)
Furniture restorers can be found on the Internet, but what about the other skills?
Re: furniture restoration, I believe that unless the old style glues etc. are used, it detracts from a possible high worth.
Best wishes
Pat
Sent from?Mail?for Windows 10
?
From:?dave.mdv
Sent:?15 July 2021 22:36
To:?patheigham;?tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject:?Re: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
?
I think that you are well behing the rest of us, Pat! It has been my favourite programme from the start! I wish that they would put up a simple caption after each amazing repair with the time taken, the cost and the materials used! Who knows where to buy Pearl Glue or Shellac Polish? Their pool of the many craft experts is well worth publishing also! It's nice to knw that we still have them available in the country. Cheers, Dave
On 15/07/2021 22:18, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
Last night, looking for something to watch, I lit upon The Repair Shop. Expecting to be bored ? on the contrary, I was amazed at the skills exhibited by the restorers, quite brilliant and fascinating. Also very emotional when the finished result was presented to the owners, when they saw what had been achieved to their prized possessions.
Pat
?
Sent from?Mail?for Windows 10
?
?
<2E50F526432A40DBAC719FF171400612.png>

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.?
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From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com  Fri Jul 16 06:19:01 2021
From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 12:19:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <60f16432.1c69fb81.21895.da97@mx.google.com>
References: <60f0a60e.1c69fb81.1fc20.4ee3@mx.google.com>
	<45ad3b2c-6b1a-2cb5-6ced-03c8ee789567@btinternet.com>
	<60f16432.1c69fb81.21895.da97@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAP-d_-r6KtsqG5fzR4xZtgGQRjjTPw4_=+KyDc8Gv_0DHn1Psg@mail.gmail.com>

Try putting the repairers names into YouTube. There's at least one of them
on there.

John Nottage

On Fri, 16 Jul 2021, 11:49 patheigham via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Yes, I hadn?t watched it previously. I wondered how the programme makers
> had sourced the experts in the various skills required. Years ago I took my
> teddy bear, which had been my father?s, so must now be over a hundred years
> old, to a restorer in Petersfield, who made a new ear for him. (Happy New
> ear!)
>
> Furniture restorers can be found on the Internet, but what about the other
> skills?
>
> Re: furniture restoration, I believe that unless the old style glues etc.
> are used, it detracts from a possible high worth.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Pat
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com>
> *Sent: *15 July 2021 22:36
> *To: *patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
>
>
>
> I think that you are well behing the rest of us, Pat! It has been my
> favourite programme from the start! I wish that they would put up a simple
> caption after each amazing repair with the time taken, the cost and the
> materials used! Who knows where to buy Pearl Glue or Shellac Polish? Their
> pool of the many craft experts is well worth publishing also! It's nice to
> knw that we still have them available in the country. Cheers, Dave
>
> On 15/07/2021 22:18, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Last night, looking for something to watch, I lit upon The Repair Shop.
> Expecting to be bored ? on the contrary, I was amazed at the skills
> exhibited by the restorers, quite brilliant and fascinating. Also very
> emotional when the finished result was presented to the owners, when they
> saw what had been achieved to their prized possessions.
>
> Pat
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Jul 16 07:32:23 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 13:32:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <60f16432.1c69fb81.21895.da97@mx.google.com>
References: <60f16432.1c69fb81.21895.da97@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <D8D9B2DE-6266-4AF8-982F-D2BCE3785414@me.com>

Actually Pearl glue is quite readily available on eBay.  My original packet of it which I bought in the 1970s was past it?s best and nearly gone.  Much to my surprise, when I tried to get some for a lockdown repair project, there were a number of suppliers selling it on eBay.  I paid less than a fiver for a 250g bag which should last me forever at the rate I?ve used it over the last fifty years.

I chose a supplier who appeared to be operating from a small shop.  I like to support small retailers who keep afloat by also selling specialised stuff on eBay.

Alan Taylor


> Who knows where to buy Pearl Glue or Shellac Polish? Their pool of the many craft experts is well worth publishing also! It's nice to knw that we still have them available in the country. Cheers, Dave
> 
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Fri Jul 16 10:37:25 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 16:37:25 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <60f16aaa.1c69fb81.79515.02cc@mx.google.com>
References: <60f0a60e.1c69fb81.1fc20.4ee3@mx.google.com>
	<45ad3b2c-6b1a-2cb5-6ced-03c8ee789567@btinternet.com>
	<60f16432.1c69fb81.21895.da97@mx.google.com>
	<345437FA-A572-4494-A548-2B52E0F3B908@icloud.com>
	<60f16aaa.1c69fb81.79515.02cc@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <594cfeeb51davesound@btinternet.com>

In article <60f16aaa.1c69fb81.79515.02cc at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> When the chap was making a new handle for ?Neddy? the child walker, I
> knew that plumbers use a curly spring to prevent the pipe flattening
> when bending ? maybe there wasn?t a suitable size ?spring? to fit the
> bore, so he had to use sand fill ? but was it left in?

Springs for pipe bending pretty well stopped being used when copper tube
went metric. It is thinner wall and not so soft, and will crinkle when
bent with a spring. The usual way these days is to use a pipe bender. That
has curved formers to stop the tube distorting. Great fun to use, once you
gain the skills of knowing just where to bend it.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Jul 16 11:09:59 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 17:09:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <594cfeeb51davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <594cfeeb51davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <2955B1E5-6C3F-4F51-B710-DDA2E46D309F@me.com>

Pipe bending springs are still cheaply available from places like Toolstation.  I suspect that they are bought by people only wanting to do one bend and wary of buying a pipe bending machine.

However they are pretty useless and I gave up on them decades ago after a nicely formed 90? bend in 15mm copper refused to let the spring out again.  It?s probably still in there in  rubbish dump far away.  Pipe bending machines are vastly superior and it?s easy to make accurately formed bends every time.

Alan Taylor


> On 16 Jul 2021, at 16:47, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?In article <60f16aaa.1c69fb81.79515.02cc at mx.google.com>,
>  patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> When the chap was making a new handle for ?Neddy? the child walker, I
>> knew that plumbers use a curly spring to prevent the pipe flattening
>> when bending ? maybe there wasn?t a suitable size ?spring? to fit the
>> bore, so he had to use sand fill ? but was it left in?
> 
> Springs for pipe bending pretty well stopped being used when copper tube
> went metric. It is thinner wall and not so soft, and will crinkle when
> bent with a spring. The usual way these days is to use a pipe bender. That
> has curved formers to stop the tube distorting. Great fun to use, once you
> gain the skills of knowing just where to bend it.
> 
> -- 
>   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Jul 16 12:14:22 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 18:14:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <2955B1E5-6C3F-4F51-B710-DDA2E46D309F@me.com>
References: <594cfeeb51davesound@btinternet.com>
	<2955B1E5-6C3F-4F51-B710-DDA2E46D309F@me.com>
Message-ID: <60f1be6f.1c69fb81.54a60.671d@mx.google.com>

Talking of bending things, there was a place just across from the TVT that would bend alli sheets if you were constructing an electronic chassis (Nick knows all about this!). I think it was called U-Seekia? I fitted a Sony tape cassette/radio in my early Triumph Herald and wanted to make a thief proof tray to install it.
However I made a silly mistake with a later car ? collecting a piece of kit from the cameraman who lived in Merrow, I left the car, unlocked, (stupid!) outside on the main A25 ? well, one glass of wine led to two, and I left, jumped in and put my hand down to turn the radio on, to find just a bundle of wires sticking out! It was in a standard dash fitment so maybe the opportunist thief had the correct key prong to release it.
My current vehicle has the radio/satnav built into the car?s computer, so not separately pinchable.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 16 July 2021 17:10
To: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Repair Shop

Pipe bending springs are still cheaply available from places like Toolstation.  I suspect that they are bought by people only wanting to do one bend and wary of buying a pipe bending machine.

However they are pretty useless and I gave up on them decades ago after a nicely formed 90? bend in 15mm copper refused to let the spring out again.  It?s probably still in there in  rubbish dump far away.  Pipe bending machines are vastly superior and it?s easy to make accurately formed bends every time.

Alan Taylor





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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Jul 16 13:20:47 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 19:20:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
In-Reply-To: <594cfeeb51davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <60f0a60e.1c69fb81.1fc20.4ee3@mx.google.com>
	<45ad3b2c-6b1a-2cb5-6ced-03c8ee789567@btinternet.com>
	<60f16432.1c69fb81.21895.da97@mx.google.com>
	<345437FA-A572-4494-A548-2B52E0F3B908@icloud.com>
	<60f16aaa.1c69fb81.79515.02cc@mx.google.com>
	<594cfeeb51davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <7740c5bb-a329-5164-059a-34368b374d85@btinternet.com>

 ???? When I installed our central heating I borrowed Dickie 
Chamberlain's pipe bender. Unforunately, it was designed for Imperial 
size tubing! The answer Dickie had come up with for metric tubes were 
spacers to go between the roller and the former. They were short strips 
of carpet-edges doorway aluminium plates! You used one for 15mm. tubes, 
two for 22mm. and three for 28mm.! Needless to say it worked fine 
despite being a bit fiddly. I took great pride in using as few ready 
made elbows etc. and bent some amazing shapes to do the job. Cheers, Dave



From doug at puddifoot.me  Fri Jul 16 14:50:06 2021
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot)
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 20:50:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
Message-ID: <x8dgj4jrxgrk2si94t60s0m8.1626464387045@email.android.com>

Remember when we went metric so that we would be in line with other countries? I had to do some plumbing in France, and they have 14mm and 16mm pipe. 8 by 4 sheets of timber haven't changed, they are just called 2440mms by 1220 mm.

Doug

From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sat Jul 17 00:19:29 2021
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 06:19:29 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
In-Reply-To: <x8dgj4jrxgrk2si94t60s0m8.1626464387045@email.android.com>
References: <x8dgj4jrxgrk2si94t60s0m8.1626464387045@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <7F2CA29F-C1B1-4747-91B6-240D9995CAC9@zero51.force9.co.uk>

British Standard Pipe Thread, parallel or tapered, is used internationally (apart from North America who use National Pipe Thread) and there are ISO standards for it. 
In France I think they use metric descriptions like 12/17 m?le m?le for 3/4 inch male iron for example but you might find as 3/4 moulded into the metal. Quite likely, especially at Castorama who have been part of Kingfisher (Screwfix B&Q) for years and use the Diall and Good Homes brand in Europe too, presumably sourcing the fittings from the same Asian suppliers. 
This is a ?Don?t quote me? because i haven?t actually checked it out by trying, say,  a UK back nut on a french tap, but if something looks like a familiar BSP on a radiator or a waste pipe it almost certainly is.  
This far predates the EU because BSP is based on the Whitworth thread form from the 19th century and it?s thanks to The British Empire that it spread that round the world. Apart from the US who couldn?t bear to leave even  the gallon alone. Or was it the other way round?  Bill Bryson would know.
Even though the Germans use various DIN standards for pipe threads they are the same Whitworth base,  ie DIN 15 is 1/2 inch BSP.

Peter Fox

On 16 Jul 2021, at 20:50, Doug Pu via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?Remember when we went metric so that we would be in line with other countries? I had to do some plumbing in France, and they have 14mm and 16mm pipe. 8 by 4 sheets of timber haven't changed, they are just called 2440mms by 1220 mm.

Doug
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jul 17 03:17:23 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 09:17:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
In-Reply-To: <7F2CA29F-C1B1-4747-91B6-240D9995CAC9@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <x8dgj4jrxgrk2si94t60s0m8.1626464387045@email.android.com>
	<7F2CA29F-C1B1-4747-91B6-240D9995CAC9@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <60f29212.1c69fb81.b80fb.90f6@mx.google.com>

As the US has to have everything bigger and better than elsewhere (Ten Gallon hats? Donald Trump?) I heard an amusing put down from a witty scriptwriter:
?All big hat and NO cattle!?

On a standards tangent, leading on to which side of the road is driven upon, I wonder at the commercials perpetrated by the car manufacturers trying to sell us their models, always show left hand drive ones roaring round continental roads! Mustn?t be too scathing about this as I shot on one in Montreux, Switzerland, for a new Rover a while ago, and still have the complimentary goodybag Burberry scarf presented to each of us.
Regards
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Peter Fox via Tech1
Sent: 17 July 2021 06:19
To: Doug Puddifoot
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops co. uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pipe bending

British Standard Pipe Thread, parallel or tapered, is used internationally (apart from North America who use National Pipe Thread) and there are ISO standards for it. 
Apart from the US who couldn?t bear to leave even  the gallon alone. 

Peter Fox




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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 17 03:51:48 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 09:51:48 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Video files
In-Reply-To: <1cc08884-517d-629e-c470-29851f44e582@btinternet.com>
References: <1cc08884-517d-629e-c470-29851f44e582@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <aa342a30-8107-2883-f9a3-a60d3ed2def5@gmail.com>

What happened about the video files?

B



On 16/07/2021 00:53, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
> I wonder if any of you clever-clogs out there, geniarses that you are, 
> can explain to me why, which ever software video player I use, (vlc, 
> Gom, Pot, MPC-HC) the video will not start immediately, then it starts 
> at very high speed for a few seconds, then it goes very slowly for a 
> few more seconds and then plays at a normal speed. Is it my nVidia 
> graphics card or is it something else? Help, it's driving me mad! 
> Cheers, Dave
>
>

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From waresound at msn.com  Sat Jul 17 03:53:00 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 08:53:00 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB198141984A751E6F9985E680A7109@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Too windy to go on the beach or in the boat today (you remember what it can be like here, Pat), so:
?I did indeed spend a fair amount of time in Useekia. Two lovely guys who were always ready to help with one-off metal parts etc. They guillotined and folded all of the channel faceplates and chassis parts, plus the main panels and end plates for this and another, slightly larger, early analogue mixer desk (the faders were P&G). At the time, you couldn?t buy a small mixer like this. Soundcraft, Audio Developments et al were still yet to come. We had a custom pcb maker over the road from us in Kingston, who also screen printed the labelling on the front panels after black anodising by Useekia. Circuitry was based around a series of Studio Sound articles by a Peter Levesley. That mixer was used on countless recording sessions for about ten years, eventually sold on to a Hyperion sound engineer. By then I was in a position to buy a succession of small Neve mixers, the BCM 10/2, the Melbourne, and then ?Suitcase?.

As someone who has been endlessly making, modifying and up-cycling ?things? since about twelve years of age, I too like The Repair Shop. My only complaint with it is the predictabilty of the ?get the punter to cry? bits. Like DIY SOS, the sob story bit I find intrusive and voyeuristic. There was a time within BBC programmes and News interviews, when the question ?How did you feel when? (whatever disaster had happened to the interviewee), was off limits. Nowadays, I cringe when I see those moments coming because I?ve seen all too often, the relentless probing that leads up to the tearful bit. Not nice. And having worked on shows of that sort, I suspect that the Repair Shop experts (all of whom I like a lot) do get a fair amount of unseen backstage assistance.
I did laugh loudly though, when a chap was mending what was clearly an old valve radio, and got it working by getting one of the other repairers to make a PP3 battery holder for it, and as he lowered it into the radio it suddenly worked. Somehow I don?t think so!
But I fear I waffle too much?.
The mixer:
[cid:7600AC4C-4618-4A3C-BDA3-F5652DFF6566]

Best to all,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 16 Jul 2021, at 19:15, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Talking of bending things, there was a place just across from the TVT that would bend alli sheets if you were constructing an electronic chassis (Nick knows all about this!). I think it was called U-Seekia? I fitted a Sony tape cassette/radio in my early Triumph Herald and wanted to make a thief proof tray to install it.
However I made a silly mistake with a later car ? collecting a piece of kit from the cameraman who lived in Merrow, I left the car, unlocked, (stupid!) outside on the main A25 ? well, one glass of wine led to two, and I left, jumped in and put my hand down to turn the radio on, to find just a bundle of wires sticking out! It was in a standard dash fitment so maybe the opportunist thief had the correct key prong to release it.
My current vehicle has the radio/satnav built into the car?s computer, so not separately pinchable.
Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 16 July 2021 17:10
To: tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Repair Shop

Pipe bending springs are still cheaply available from places like Toolstation.  I suspect that they are bought by people only wanting to do one bend and wary of buying a pipe bending machine.

However they are pretty useless and I gave up on them decades ago after a nicely formed 90? bend in 15mm copper refused to let the spring out again.  It?s probably still in there in  rubbish dump far away.  Pipe bending machines are vastly superior and it?s easy to make accurately formed bends every time.

Alan Taylor





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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Jul 17 04:37:24 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 10:37:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
In-Reply-To: <60f29212.1c69fb81.b80fb.90f6@mx.google.com>
References: <x8dgj4jrxgrk2si94t60s0m8.1626464387045@email.android.com>
	<7F2CA29F-C1B1-4747-91B6-240D9995CAC9@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<60f29212.1c69fb81.b80fb.90f6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <2A2BE611-728E-4091-B5BB-2893820E5CCE@me.com>

With regards to car commercials, some of you might not have noticed that when Ford feature a car in a commercial, the number plate usually consists entirely of letters and numbers which still look like normal charcters as a mirror image ( AHIMOTUVWXYZ, 180 )   Their reason is that they can flip the image to make the car appear to be left hand or right hand drive for different markets. Close up shots where you can see the Ford badge are shot in a way which doesn't reveal the steering wheel location.

I used to do a lot of shows for internal viewing across the Ford UK dealer network.  One occasional feature was what to do if there was a recall. This particular recall concerned the multi-function light switch, which proved to have a design fault.  We needed to get a video quickly made so that technicians could see the proper way to do the job quickly ( nobody to pass the cost onto, so it needs to be done efficiently ).  The video was shot on a Friday afternoon and the head of the department offered his top of the range Mondeo as the car to be worked on. As you would expect, we shot the procedure in multiple takes, taking out the replacement switch and putting back the original unit between takes. During the final shot, it was found that one of the lights didn't work as expected.  The fault was traced to a broken contact in the vehicle wiring loom, no doubt caused by frequent dismantling and reassembling.  

There wasn't a simple fix as it used a special multi-pin connector and it would be a major job to fix it. Despite it being a Ford Engineering centre, they didn't have an appropriate spare part and anywhere nearby which might have had one was shut by then.  The technical guy running the shoot contacted his boss to explain the problem and that he had arranged a luxury replacement car until the problem could be fixed next week. The head of department then told him that he was going to Ireland, setting off that evening.  The ferry was booked for that particular registration and he was towing a horse box too, therefore a replacement car was out of the question.

Absolute panic in the workshop. They scoured the car park looking for a similar Mondeo, bribed the owner with the loan of a super-duper replacement car  ( Mustang if I remember right ) and the desperately needed socket was cut out of his wiring loom and spliced into the boss's car. It was a hell of a botch, but they sent him on his way just in time.


Alan Taylor




On 17 Jul 2021, at 17 Jul . 09:17, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> As the US has to have everything bigger and better than elsewhere (Ten Gallon hats? Donald Trump?) I heard an amusing put down from a witty scriptwriter:
> ?All big hat and NO cattle!?
>  
> On a standards tangent, leading on to which side of the road is driven upon, I wonder at the commercials perpetrated by the car manufacturers trying to sell us their models, always show left hand drive ones roaring round continental roads! Mustn?t be too scathing about this as I shot on one in Montreux, Switzerland, for a new Rover a while ago, and still have the complimentary goodybag Burberry scarf presented to each of us.
> Regards
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Peter Fox via Tech1
> Sent: 17 July 2021 06:19
> To: Doug Puddifoot
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops co. uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pipe bending
>  
> British Standard Pipe Thread, parallel or tapered, is used internationally (apart from North America who use National Pipe Thread) and there are ISO standards for it.
> Apart from the US who couldn?t bear to leave even  the gallon alone.
>  
> Peter Fox
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jul 17 05:29:20 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 11:29:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Number plates was pipe bending
In-Reply-To: <2A2BE611-728E-4091-B5BB-2893820E5CCE@me.com>
References: <x8dgj4jrxgrk2si94t60s0m8.1626464387045@email.android.com>
	<7F2CA29F-C1B1-4747-91B6-240D9995CAC9@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<60f29212.1c69fb81.b80fb.90f6@mx.google.com>
	<2A2BE611-728E-4091-B5BB-2893820E5CCE@me.com>
Message-ID: <60f2b100.1c69fb81.327c8.c381@mx.google.com>

Number plates
On ?The Spy Who Loved Me? location Sardinia, there were two identical Lotus Esprit?s with necessarily the same number plates, for the first and second units to work with.
This initiated much head scratching for the Sardinian cops!
?nother story from ?Spy?:
Sequence where Bond?s vehicle collapses in the Egyptian desert ? editors, for rushes, dubbed on a chunk of the theme from Lawrence. Huge applause from crew watching rushes.
Cubby Broccoli asked how much to use it ? about ?800. ?Do it? said Cubby ? hence it stayed for the final print.

I used to work on several Ford corporate shoots for a particular production company.
My cousin happened to be married to one of the Ford PR guys, nice, pleasant chap, but who was referred to by said company, as:
?The constriction in the pipe that prevents everything flowing smoothly!?

However, Alan, there are currently running commercials, which clearly show cars driving on the right hand lanes.

Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 17 July 2021 10:37
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pipe bending

With regards to car commercials, some of you might not have noticed that when Ford feature a car in a commercial, the number plate usually consists entirely of letters and numbers which still look like normal charcters as a mirror image ( AHIMOTUVWXYZ, 180 ) ? Their reason is that they can flip the image to make the car appear to be left hand or right hand drive for different markets. Close up shots where you can see the Ford badge are shot in a way which doesn't reveal the steering wheel location.

Alan Taylor







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From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Jul 17 06:21:12 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 12:21:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <2955B1E5-6C3F-4F51-B710-DDA2E46D309F@me.com>
References: <594cfeeb51davesound@btinternet.com>
	<2955B1E5-6C3F-4F51-B710-DDA2E46D309F@me.com>
Message-ID: <594d6b4d0bdavesound@btinternet.com>

Yes. And I expect if you tried using a spring inside a steel pipe the same
would happen too.

You can get pipe benders for steel tube too - for things like electrical
conduit. But are floor standing devices due to the force needed. Unlike
the relatively cheap hand held devices for 15 and 22mm copper tube. For
28mm, you use a similar floor standing bender.

Oddly, I've been doing some tube bending. The old Rover failed its MOT
when a brake pipe split. And with these steel pipes all being 35 years
old, decided to replace them all. With copper, which is easier to bend.
And should last forever. I did already have a pipe bender for this, but it
didn't do as tight bends as the originals, so had to buy another.

It would have been a simple job to install these pipes when the car was
built and no engine in place. But with it, a total nightmare. There are
three pipes that run across the bulkhead and you wouldn't believe how many
hoses and wires etc they go behind.         



In article <2955B1E5-6C3F-4F51-B710-DDA2E46D309F at me.com>,
   Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Pipe bending springs are still cheaply available from places like Toolstation.  I suspect that they are bought by people only wanting to do one bend and wary of buying a pipe bending machine.

> However they are pretty useless and I gave up on them decades ago after a nicely formed 90? bend in 15mm copper refused to let the spring out again.  It?s probably still in there in  rubbish dump far away.  Pipe bending machines are vastly superior and it?s easy to make accurately formed bends every time.

> Alan Taylor


> > On 16 Jul 2021, at 16:47, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> > #In article <60f16aaa.1c69fb81.79515.02cc at mx.google.com>,
> >  patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> >> When the chap was making a new handle for ?Neddy? the child walker, I
> >> knew that plumbers use a curly spring to prevent the pipe flattening
> >> when bending ? maybe there wasn?t a suitable size ?spring? to fit the
> >> bore, so he had to use sand fill ? but was it left in?
> > 
> > Springs for pipe bending pretty well stopped being used when copper tube
> > went metric. It is thinner wall and not so soft, and will crinkle when
> > bent with a spring. The usual way these days is to use a pipe bender. That
> > has curved formers to stop the tube distorting. Great fun to use, once you
> > gain the skills of knowing just where to bend it.
> > 
> > -- 
> >   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Tech1 mailing list
> > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

> -- 
> Tech1 mailing l

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jul 17 06:34:15 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 12:34:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <594d6b4d0bdavesound@btinternet.com>
References: <594cfeeb51davesound@btinternet.com>
	<2955B1E5-6C3F-4F51-B710-DDA2E46D309F@me.com>
	<594d6b4d0bdavesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <60f2c037.1c69fb81.21895.9ed0@mx.google.com>

A cameraman colleague discovered that to change the battery in his car (can?t remember the make), it was necessary to take out the windscreen ? good bit of design, that!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 17 July 2021 12:22
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Repair Shop


It would have been a simple job to install these pipes when the car was
built and no engine in place. But with it, a total nightmare. There are
three pipes that run across the bulkhead and you wouldn't believe how many
hoses and wires etc they go behind.         






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From waresound at msn.com  Sat Jul 17 06:48:18 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 11:48:18 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981326EE37546794F8E32CDA7109@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

?By the way, do you know the story that was kept under wraps at the time, of a Concorde flight that had to declare a fuel emergency on approach into Heathrow, and landed safely, but had to be towed to its arrival gate. It had been refuelled in New York in US gallons which are smaller than Imperial gallons. That was actually all the more serious because Concorde depended on fuel being constantly moved around for weight distribution to maintain level flight as it burnt off fuel (weight). Without that it would have gone into an uncontrollable climb. I?ve got the book: ?Concorde Story? and over several years, worked on an Arts Council film called ?The White Bird? during Concorde?s development stages. Sadly, we never got to fly in what we thought of as ?our? Concorde bacause it was always crammed with test gear and dummy loads etc.

Years later, while installing a PA system in St Albans Church, Hindhead, I became friendly with their churchwarden who, over a coffee and a chat, casually mentioned that he had led the design team who came up with the idea of the automatic fuel distribution system, a detail kept secret from the Russians, hence the dramatic failure of ?Concordski?.
You just never know what amazing old guys you might meet in the most unlikely places. Don?t we just know that?! Last night: Dinner with two ex LWT senior cameramen, a top LE Director, producer of the X Factor, a rather famous Jazz Sax player and his equally famous dancer wife, etc., etc. Not that it?ll do me any good now, though.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
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From david.jasma at sky.com  Sat Jul 17 07:22:17 2021
From: david.jasma at sky.com (Dave Buckley)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 13:22:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Repair shop
References: <ce169c5f-165f-ab63-d0a6-f51bfb175533.ref@sky.com>
Message-ID: <ce169c5f-165f-ab63-d0a6-f51bfb175533@sky.com>

My wife and I have watched most episodes of this show and have enjoyed 
everyone of them. They are also a good source of tips for repairing 
items - in fact my wife is going to wash her old teddy bear using a tip 
from bear ladies!

A tip from the wood worker sorted out the laminate on the kitchen work 
top which was coming up at two joins. In one show he had to repair a 
laminate top and used a hot iron to stick down the remaining laminate to 
keep it in place before starting work on the repair. We tried this on 
our work top and it worked!

As for the experts, Steve who repairs the watches and clocks etc, is 
third generation, has been an auxiliary fireman and has played in a 
band, being a mean saxophonist!

His sister, who does leather work, joined the Repair Shop after her 
husband died and she wanted to keep herself occupied.

I also admire how they explain what they are doing in plain English!

Dave Buckley

-- 
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Jul 17 08:49:21 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 14:49:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <594d6b4d0bdavesound@btinternet.com>
References: <594cfeeb51davesound@btinternet.com>
	<2955B1E5-6C3F-4F51-B710-DDA2E46D309F@me.com>
	<594d6b4d0bdavesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <04dd0341-7db8-7fab-388f-c1797deb34d8@chriswoolf.co.uk>

That's Kunifer pipe? Or pure copper?

Chris Woolf

On 17/07/2021 12:21, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> Yes. And I expect if you tried using a spring inside a steel pipe the same
> would happen too.
>
> You can get pipe benders for steel tube too - for things like electrical
> conduit. But are floor standing devices due to the force needed. Unlike
> the relatively cheap hand held devices for 15 and 22mm copper tube. For
> 28mm, you use a similar floor standing bender.
>
> Oddly, I've been doing some tube bending. The old Rover failed its MOT
> when a brake pipe split. And with these steel pipes all being 35 years
> old, decided to replace them all. With copper, which is easier to bend.
> And should last forever. I did already have a pipe bender for this, but it
> didn't do as tight bends as the originals, so had to buy another.
>
> It would have been a simple job to install these pipes when the car was
> built and no engine in place. But with it, a total nightmare. There are
> three pipes that run across the bulkhead and you wouldn't believe how many
> hoses and wires etc they go behind.
>
>
>
> In article <2955B1E5-6C3F-4F51-B710-DDA2E46D309F at me.com>,
>     Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Pipe bending springs are still cheaply available from places like Toolstation.  I suspect that they are bought by people only wanting to do one bend and wary of buying a pipe bending machine.
>> However they are pretty useless and I gave up on them decades ago after a nicely formed 90? bend in 15mm copper refused to let the spring out again.  It?s probably still in there in  rubbish dump far away.  Pipe bending machines are vastly superior and it?s easy to make accurately formed bends every time.
>> Alan Taylor
>
>>> On 16 Jul 2021, at 16:47, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> #In article <60f16aaa.1c69fb81.79515.02cc at mx.google.com>,
>>>   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> When the chap was making a new handle for ?Neddy? the child walker, I
>>>> knew that plumbers use a curly spring to prevent the pipe flattening
>>>> when bending ? maybe there wasn?t a suitable size ?spring? to fit the
>>>> bore, so he had to use sand fill ? but was it left in?
>>> Springs for pipe bending pretty well stopped being used when copper tube
>>> went metric. It is thinner wall and not so soft, and will crinkle when
>>> bent with a spring. The usual way these days is to use a pipe bender. That
>>> has curved formers to stop the tube distorting. Great fun to use, once you
>>> gain the skills of knowing just where to bend it.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing l

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From waresound at msn.com  Sat Jul 17 10:19:09 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 15:19:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981E3871776F82C7C7BF8A6A7109@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

When we moved into our last house I plumbed all the central heating myself, with the exception of the boiler and cylinder, which came with free installation.
I still occasionally use my 15mm bending spring. I find it?s fine as long as you keep it Silicone greased and bend just a little beyond 90degrees, then ease it gently back to a true rightangle. Pull spring out on a piece of Bowden cable if it?s out of reach. Use solder-flow elbows for tight turns, of course.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 16 Jul 2021, at 18:10, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Pipe bending springs are still cheaply available from places like Toolstation.  I suspect that they are bought by people only wanting to do one bend and wary of buying a pipe bending machine.
> 
> However they are pretty useless and I gave up on them decades ago after a nicely formed 90? bend in 15mm copper refused to let the spring out again.  It?s probably still in there in  rubbish dump far away.  Pipe bending machines are vastly superior and it?s easy to make accurately formed bends every time.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
>>> On 16 Jul 2021, at 16:47, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?In article <60f16aaa.1c69fb81.79515.02cc at mx.google.com>,
>>> patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> When the chap was making a new handle for ?Neddy? the child walker, I
>>> knew that plumbers use a curly spring to prevent the pipe flattening
>>> when bending ? maybe there wasn?t a suitable size ?spring? to fit the
>>> bore, so he had to use sand fill ? but was it left in?
>> Springs for pipe bending pretty well stopped being used when copper tube
>> went metric. It is thinner wall and not so soft, and will crinkle when
>> bent with a spring. The usual way these days is to use a pipe bender. That
>> has curved formers to stop the tube distorting. Great fun to use, once you
>> gain the skills of knowing just where to bend it.
>> --
>> Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jul 17 16:27:44 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 22:27:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
Message-ID: <60f34b50.1c69fb81.7603c.1158@mx.google.com>

I hope this does not infringe the rules of posting, Bernie, but I would like to make a plea for people with any spare cash to consider supporting the RNLI.
I have several friends and colleagues who like ?messing about in boats? and seeing the rescues depicted in ?Saving Lives at Sea?, watching the unpaid volunteer crews who risk their own lives answering a shout, makes it very essential to donate as much as possible.
The largest lifeboat is the Tamar class and costs  ?2.6 million ? a video is available from the website.
https://rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/our-lifeboat-fleet

Supporting can be via direct donations, or by buying the raffle tickets, or purchasing from the on-line shop.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



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From alawrance1 at me.com  Sat Jul 17 16:42:47 2021
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 22:42:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <60f34b50.1c69fb81.7603c.1158@mx.google.com>
References: <60f34b50.1c69fb81.7603c.1158@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <7A24B436-8ED2-456C-99B7-5A4C5E473E67@me.com>

Pat et al -

The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's latest immigration  crackdown bill goes through Parliament.

It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who are in need of assistance.

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?
> I hope this does not infringe the rules of posting, Bernie, but I would like to make a plea for people with any spare cash to consider supporting the RNLI.
> I have several friends and colleagues who like ?messing about in boats? and seeing the rescues depicted in ?Saving Lives at Sea?, watching the unpaid volunteer crews who risk their own lives answering a shout, makes it very essential to donate as much as possible.
> The largest lifeboat is the Tamar class and costs  ?2.6 million ? a video is available from the website.
> https://rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/our-lifeboat-fleet
>  
> Supporting can be via direct donations, or by buying the raffle tickets, or purchasing from the on-line shop.
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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From saranewman at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 17 17:01:14 2021
From: saranewman at hotmail.com (Sara Newman)
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 22:01:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <7A24B436-8ED2-456C-99B7-5A4C5E473E67@me.com>
References: <60f34b50.1c69fb81.7603c.1158@mx.google.com>,
	<7A24B436-8ED2-456C-99B7-5A4C5E473E67@me.com>
Message-ID: <DB9PR08MB704939F6357731171F6AD4EED0109@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Hi I am maybe of a minority but the RNIL are just like r the RAC-AA   Of the sea So since we have people with ?1bn excess why am I paying their rescue insurance services

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:43, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Pat et al -

The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's latest immigration  crackdown bill goes through Parliament.

It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who are in need of assistance.

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
I hope this does not infringe the rules of posting, Bernie, but I would like to make a plea for people with any spare cash to consider supporting the RNLI.
I have several friends and colleagues who like ?messing about in boats? and seeing the rescues depicted in ?Saving Lives at Sea?, watching the unpaid volunteer crews who risk their own lives answering a shout, makes it very essential to donate as much as possible.
The largest lifeboat is the Tamar class and costs  ?2.6 million ? a video is available from the website.
https://rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/our-lifeboat-fleet<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frnli.org%2Fwhat-we-do%2Flifeboats-and-stations%2Four-lifeboat-fleet&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ce6148827759341e55cdf08d9496be4de%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637621550017850582%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=LLTq6e%2FhMHe5YKQ8xhUt%2FepEOZKYD5tcxIzPHKMcjKI%3D&reserved=0>

Supporting can be via direct donations, or by buying the raffle tickets, or purchasing from the on-line shop.
Pat

Sent from Mail<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ce6148827759341e55cdf08d9496be4de%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637621550017860539%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=gSYGUzVVvCbtX7pL9sq%2Bjn33MptUKxyuORsBBKu0etQ%3D&reserved=0> for Windows 10



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From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Sat Jul 17 22:24:14 2021
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 04:24:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
In-Reply-To: <7F2CA29F-C1B1-4747-91B6-240D9995CAC9@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <x8dgj4jrxgrk2si94t60s0m8.1626464387045@email.android.com>
	<7F2CA29F-C1B1-4747-91B6-240D9995CAC9@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJnSsuVag-_iZ6nkdwwOBskg0s=T=dnrFSg5WQQd5+A0Kw@mail.gmail.com>

Pipe bending can be made a lot easier if you anneal the pipe first. I've
not done any pipe bending recently so I'd better not try to advise on this.
But there are interesting discussions about this and other plumbing
techniques on various forums. For example:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1249297-Can-I-anneal-copper-pipe-with-a-propane-torch

There are also some interesting discussions below demonstrations on
YouTube. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-rheXbVa4

KW


On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 at 06:20, Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> British Standard Pipe Thread, parallel or tapered, is used internationally
> (apart from North America who use National Pipe Thread) and there are ISO
> standards for it.
> In France I think they use metric descriptions like 12/17 m?le m?le for
> 3/4 inch male iron for example but you might find as 3/4 moulded into the
> metal. Quite likely, especially at Castorama who have been part of
> Kingfisher (Screwfix B&Q) for years and use the Diall and Good Homes brand
> in Europe too, presumably sourcing the fittings from the same Asian
> suppliers.
> This is a ?Don?t quote me? because i haven?t actually checked it out by
> trying, say,  a UK back nut on a french tap, but if something looks like a
> familiar BSP on a radiator or a waste pipe it almost certainly is.
> This far predates the EU because BSP is based on the Whitworth thread form
> from the 19th century and it?s thanks to The British Empire that it spread
> that round the world. Apart from the US who couldn?t bear to leave even
> the gallon alone. Or was it the other way round?  Bill Bryson would know.
> Even though the Germans use various DIN standards for pipe threads they
> are the same Whitworth base,  ie DIN 15 is 1/2 inch BSP.
>
> Peter Fox
>
> On 16 Jul 2021, at 20:50, Doug Pu via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?Remember when we went metric so that we would be in line with other
> countries? I had to do some plumbing in France, and they have 14mm and 16mm
> pipe. 8 by 4 sheets of timber haven't changed, they are just called 2440mms
> by 1220 mm.
>
> Doug
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
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>
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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sun Jul 18 01:33:12 2021
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 07:33:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJnSsuVag-_iZ6nkdwwOBskg0s=T=dnrFSg5WQQd5+A0Kw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJnSsuVag-_iZ6nkdwwOBskg0s=T=dnrFSg5WQQd5+A0Kw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4226C5BE-F33E-405C-B9EC-11B345A21570@zero51.force9.co.uk>

If anyone is thinking of getting a pipe bender here is my take on them.  Most plumbers in the domestic scene get by with the 15mm/22mm handbenders, probably because there is very little gravity hot water heating around these days and nice sweeping bends in 28mm are no longer required. Most of those old floor standing boilers have fallen apart now. replaced by fully pumped condensing wall mounted boilers with 22mm outlets.
Traditionally Hilmor were ?the? British made pipe bender to have. Hilmor are now Irwin Hilmor and made in China. They are ?70 in Screwfix. I have one and they are good. I also have a handbender from Benditnow.co.uk This is the firm that used to make benders for Hilmor before the Chinese move and they also have a range of floor standers for copper or conduit or both, and spare parts!! They are really good. However the hand bender is ?85 inc vat but with free next day delivery from the factory.
Then there is Rothenberger, a pretty red bender for ?80. I bought a Rothenberger from City Plumbing Supplies in a promotion for about ?50 and rapidly threw it on the junk pile and bought the Benditnow instead. Why? because it nicks the pipe, particularly 15mm, by exerting a sideways force against the front edge of the former. Its quite a small dent but anathema for a plumbing appreciator. I guess Rothenberger had to make a hook that was not quite the same as Hilmor?s and so it doesn?t work properly. Maybe its better now? No idea. Best avoided, even a freeby. The only good thing was a canvas pouch for the two guides. I still use that.
  My son bought the cheapest blue Screwfix bender which is currently ?40 and he has done lots of complicated and successful plumbing and heating on his house.  It must be reasonably ok or he would have ?borrowed? one of mine. On the other hand the Benditnow does ripple free unmarked bends every time. 
A floor stander is much easier to set up and pull. Just managing the pipe is more controllable and it is less likely to unhook while you are setting up. Also you can do U bends if you feel the need, A shower pump might be a good opportunity for that.
Why have a pipe bender? Smoother quieter water flow, and neat offsets and lay-out. In theory you save on fittings and soldering but the flow and noise is more important and any saving (for me) is offset by learning curve screw-ups and wasted pipe.  The real reason is the challenge and satisfaction of doing a good job rather than gamble on finding that professional artist! They are out there!  A friend of mine who was the deputy coxswain of the Yarmouth lifeboat many years ago persuaded the engineer to do his central heating and it was incredibly neat and tidy. A work of art.  It was a shame most of it had to have floorboards over it!

Peter Fox

On 18 Jul 2021, at 04:24, Keith Wicks <keithwicksuk at gmail.com> wrote:

?
Pipe bending can be made a lot easier if you anneal the pipe first. I've not done any pipe bending recently so I'd better not try to advise on this. But there are interesting discussions about this and other plumbing techniques on various forums. For example:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1249297-Can-I-anneal-copper-pipe-with-a-propane-torch

There are also some interesting discussions below demonstrations on YouTube. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-rheXbVa4

KW


On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 at 06:20, Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> British Standard Pipe Thread, parallel or tapered, is used internationally (apart from North America who use National Pipe Thread) and there are ISO standards for it. 
> In France I think they use metric descriptions like 12/17 m?le m?le for 3/4 inch male iron for example but you might find as 3/4 moulded into the metal. Quite likely, especially at Castorama who have been part of Kingfisher (Screwfix B&Q) for years and use the Diall and Good Homes brand in Europe too, presumably sourcing the fittings from the same Asian suppliers. 
> This is a ?Don?t quote me? because i haven?t actually checked it out by trying, say,  a UK back nut on a french tap, but if something looks like a familiar BSP on a radiator or a waste pipe it almost certainly is.  
> This far predates the EU because BSP is based on the Whitworth thread form from the 19th century and it?s thanks to The British Empire that it spread that round the world. Apart from the US who couldn?t bear to leave even  the gallon alone. Or was it the other way round?  Bill Bryson would know.
> Even though the Germans use various DIN standards for pipe threads they are the same Whitworth base,  ie DIN 15 is 1/2 inch BSP.
> 
> Peter Fox
> 
> On 16 Jul 2021, at 20:50, Doug Pu via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Remember when we went metric so that we would be in line with other countries? I had to do some plumbing in France, and they have 14mm and 16mm pipe. 8 by 4 sheets of timber haven't changed, they are just called 2440mms by 1220 mm.
> 
> Doug
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Jul 18 02:14:22 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 08:14:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJnSsuVag-_iZ6nkdwwOBskg0s=T=dnrFSg5WQQd5+A0Kw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJnSsuVag-_iZ6nkdwwOBskg0s=T=dnrFSg5WQQd5+A0Kw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9FBDD6ED-71BE-499E-B18B-3BC0516FB5B6@me.com>

Annealing copper makes it much easier to bend and is well worthwhile.  It?s just a matter of using a blow lamp to heat it red hot and then leaving it to cool.  It?s also worth remembering that working the metal ( bending or hammering ) hardens it again, so if you?re doing complex work, you might need to anneal it multiple times.

I once made a fairly simple boiler for a steam engine from copper. Shaping the flanges for the ends involved a lot of copper beating and annealing, but it eventually turned out well. For the actual annealing, I used a combination of an old fashioned Primus stove to get most of it fairly hot and then a propane blow lamp to get it red hot.

I?m alarmed at the description on the R/C link about trombone making.  Essentially the tight bends are made by filling an annealed pipe with frozen soapy water and carefully bending it over a mandrel.  However for a trombone, you need a perfectly circular section throughout and the proposed way to do it is by putting a ball bearing inside and forcing it through by pushing it with smaller ball bearings.  I can see that would work, but am alarmed at the part where he suggests connecting an air line to the end of the tube  and pushing the ball bearing through with air pressure.  It seems to me that he is describing some sort of air gun which would suddenly eject a large ball bearing with considerable velocity.

My previous house at Newbury had very neat plumbing.  I called in a plumber to do some work, he was around retirement age.  When he lifted the floorboards, he got quite emotional because he realised that he worked on our house when he was an apprentice.  The plumber who he was apprenticed to was careful with money and resented buying commercial fittings for plumbing.  He invested in a tool for flaring out pipes so that one pipe telescopes over the next and is then end-fed with solder.  The joins are so neat that you don?t necessarily notice them. The plumber knew exactly when our house was built because he knew the machine was bought just before he started his apprenticeship and that the plumber who owned it married and moved to another town a couple of years later. No other plumber in the area used that system.

Alan Taylor

> On 18 Jul 2021, at 04:24, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Pipe bending can be made a lot easier if you anneal the pipe first. I've not done any pipe bending recently so I'd better not try to advise on this. But there are interesting discussions about this and other plumbing techniques on various forums. For example:
> 
> https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1249297-Can-I-anneal-copper-pipe-with-a-propane-torch
> 
> There are also some interesting discussions below demonstrations on YouTube. For example:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-rheXbVa4
> 
> KW
> 
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From mibridge at mac.com  Sun Jul 18 02:53:53 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 08:53:53 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
Message-ID: <D79AF5F1-D580-451E-AE57-5F0E8D48497E@mac.com>

I still have two punches for flaring copper tube - 15mm and 22mm - they weren?t very dear and earned their keep one hundredfold.  Not only can you save on fittings, but you can use up odd lengths of otherwise scrap tube by joining them together, which is fine for work that won?t be seen.  Because you can cut and shorten or twist something you?ve already bent, or add in a bit of extra tube, they also enable quite complex shapes to be made, with nicely swept bends where space allows, which I?m assured facilitates water flow, over the tighter bend achieved with a right angle coupling, though I?ve never been able to measure the benefit. 

Not that I do much plumbing nowadays and when I do it?s usually plastic pipe and push fittings - which reminds me, I must investigate the damp patch in the hall ceiling, right beneath the spaghetti junction under the landing floor - fitted carpet and all that jazz!

Mike G

> On 18 Jul 2021, at 08:14, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 


From mibridge at mac.com  Sun Jul 18 02:57:16 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 08:57:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <DB9PR08MB704939F6357731171F6AD4EED0109@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DB9PR08MB704939F6357731171F6AD4EED0109@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <74D8C286-4307-4775-B837-2530B8717880@mac.com>

Let?s hope you don?t fall in the Thames and need rescuing, or drift out to sea on a lilo! 

Mike G

> On 17 Jul 2021, at 23:01, Sara Newman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Hi I am maybe of a minority but the RNIL are just like r the RAC-AA   Of the sea So since we have people with ?1bn excess why am I paying their rescue insurance services 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:43, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Pat et al -
>> 
>> The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's latest immigration  crackdown bill goes through Parliament.
>> 
>> It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who are in need of assistance.
>> 
>> Alasdair Lawrance
>> 
>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> I hope this does not infringe the rules of posting, Bernie, but I would like to make a plea for people with any spare cash to consider supporting the RNLI.
>>> I have several friends and colleagues who like ?messing about in boats? and seeing the rescues depicted in ?Saving Lives at Sea?, watching the unpaid volunteer crews who risk their own lives answering a shout, makes it very essential to donate as much as possible.
>>> The largest lifeboat is the Tamar class and costs  ?2.6 million ? a video is available from the website.
>>> https://rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/our-lifeboat-fleet
>>>  
>>> Supporting can be via direct donations, or by buying the raffle tickets, or purchasing from the on-line shop.
>>> Pat
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 	
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Sun Jul 18 03:08:44 2021
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 09:08:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <DB9PR08MB704939F6357731171F6AD4EED0109@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DB9PR08MB704939F6357731171F6AD4EED0109@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <FECE539C-42CE-4908-90B5-F696CD8BE8CF@btinternet.com>

With an income heading towards ?200 Million per annum the RNLI is literally ?awash? with money - you would think they could easily afford more than just one new Tamar Class Lifeboat at only ?2.6 Million - it?s a mere drop in the ocean.

It make me feel more than sea sick that RNLI frontline volunteers are unpaid and expected to freely donate their time & risk their lives undertaking dangerous work whilst many/all? of their office workers, fundraisers and other charity officials within the institution are employed and get paid !

Of course there are plenty of life saving and important charities that do very good work which rely on volunteers to operate whilst there are other not so bona fide ?charities? out there taking advantage and cashing in on the generosity of others.

Before considering donating I always carefully look into the background of any charities & trusts and consider how/why/where the charity spends my hard earned money. 
Often something not very satisfactory can be exposed when it comes to others spending other people?s money whilst at the same time asking kind hearted volunteers to work for nothing and ?bring your own lunch? 

Steve 

> On 17 Jul 2021, at 23:01, Sara Newman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Hi I am maybe of a minority but the RNIL are just like r the RAC-AA   Of the sea So since we have people with ?1bn excess why am I paying their rescue insurance services 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:43, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Pat et al -
>> 
>> The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's latest immigration  crackdown bill goes through Parliament.
>> 
>> It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who are in need of assistance.
>> 
>> Alasdair Lawrance
>> 
>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> I hope this does not infringe the rules of posting, Bernie, but I would like to make a plea for people with any spare cash to consider supporting the RNLI.
>>> I have several friends and colleagues who like ?messing about in boats? and seeing the rescues depicted in ?Saving Lives at Sea?, watching the unpaid volunteer crews who risk their own lives answering a shout, makes it very essential to donate as much as possible.
>>> The largest lifeboat is the Tamar class and costs  ?2.6 million ? a video is available from the website.
>>> https://rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/our-lifeboat-fleet
>>>  
>>> Supporting can be via direct donations, or by buying the raffle tickets, or purchasing from the on-line shop.
>>> Pat
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 	
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sun Jul 18 03:24:54 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 09:24:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
In-Reply-To: <9FBDD6ED-71BE-499E-B18B-3BC0516FB5B6@me.com>
References: <CAA=qGJnSsuVag-_iZ6nkdwwOBskg0s=T=dnrFSg5WQQd5+A0Kw@mail.gmail.com>
	<9FBDD6ED-71BE-499E-B18B-3BC0516FB5B6@me.com>
Message-ID: <DB5F068BAF5947D4B30C805330226ECD@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Flaring was of course used not just in the form that permitted one length of tube to spigot into another but also in the form that ?belled ?the end of the tube for use with Type B (manipulative) compression fittings normally used with soft (i.e. fully annealed) copper tube, particularly when that was the material commonly used below ground for water services into premises. The compression fittings most folk will be familiar with are Type A and used with the standard half hard Table X tube as encountered everywhere.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 8:14 AM
To: tech1 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pipe bending

Annealing copper makes it much easier to bend and is well worthwhile.  It?s just a matter of using a blow lamp to heat it red hot and then leaving it to cool.  It?s also worth remembering that working the metal ( bending or hammering ) hardens it again, so if you?re doing complex work, you might need to anneal it multiple times.

I once made a fairly simple boiler for a steam engine from copper. Shaping the flanges for the ends involved a lot of copper beating and annealing, but it eventually turned out well. For the actual annealing, I used a combination of an old fashioned Primus stove to get most of it fairly hot and then a propane blow lamp to get it red hot.

I?m alarmed at the description on the R/C link about trombone making.  Essentially the tight bends are made by filling an annealed pipe with frozen soapy water and carefully bending it over a mandrel.  However for a trombone, you need a perfectly circular section throughout and the proposed way to do it is by putting a ball bearing inside and forcing it through by pushing it with smaller ball bearings.  I can see that would work, but am alarmed at the part where he suggests connecting an air line to the end of the tube  and pushing the ball bearing through with air pressure.  It seems to me that he is describing some sort of air gun which would suddenly eject a large ball bearing with considerable velocity.

My previous house at Newbury had very neat plumbing.  I called in a plumber to do some work, he was around retirement age.  When he lifted the floorboards, he got quite emotional because he realised that he worked on our house when he was an apprentice.  The plumber who he was apprenticed to was careful with money and resented buying commercial fittings for plumbing.  He invested in a tool for flaring out pipes so that one pipe telescopes over the next and is then end-fed with solder.  The joins are so neat that you don?t necessarily notice them. The plumber knew exactly when our house was built because he knew the machine was bought just before he started his apprenticeship and that the plumber who owned it married and moved to another town a couple of years later. No other plumber in the area used that system.

Alan Taylor


  On 18 Jul 2021, at 04:24, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


  ? 
  Pipe bending can be made a lot easier if you anneal the pipe first. I've not done any pipe bending recently so I'd better not try to advise on this. But there are interesting discussions about this and other plumbing techniques on various forums. For example:

  https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1249297-Can-I-anneal-copper-pipe-with-a-propane-torch


  There are also some interesting discussions below demonstrations on YouTube. For example:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-rheXbVa4


  KW



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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sun Jul 18 04:12:10 2021
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 10:12:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
In-Reply-To: <DB5F068BAF5947D4B30C805330226ECD@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <DB5F068BAF5947D4B30C805330226ECD@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <F0EDB541-1CA7-4964-A378-D9FDF6E30D2F@zero51.force9.co.uk>

Interesting that annealing works with letting the copper cool. I thought the idea was to quench it. I only tried that once on a recalcitrant lenghth of 28mm that kept rippling and it didnt help. Maybe I didnt get it hot enough. The problem was really the bender, It was my first one, a Hilmor floorstander, given to me because bits were missing.  I had fabricated the roller part, buying the guides and a missing former. Turns out it is critical to have almost zero gap between the roller and the guide. It was good on 15 and 22mm most of time. Modern ones also have part of the lever threaded to adjust the gap. I guess Dickie?s spacers were just right? Some plumbers reckon the pipe is not so good these days. (Of course) 
I don?t envy all that swaging and ?manipulative? compression fitting at the bottom of a muddy hole. The other almost lost art is lead to copper where you (they) bell out the lead and then wipe the plumbers solder (2 of lead to 1 of tin rather than 1:1) into a lovely curvy joint with a moleskin and tallow . I was forced to try it once and although it worked (ie didn?t leak while I owned the house) it was not beautiful. Definitely an experts job. 

Peter Fox

On 18 Jul 2021, at 09:25, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Flaring was of course used not just in the form that permitted one length of tube to spigot into another but also in the form that ?belled ?the end of the tube for use with Type B (manipulative) compression fittings normally used with soft (i.e. fully annealed) copper tube, particularly when that was the material commonly used below ground for water services into premises. The compression fittings most folk will be familiar with are Type A and used with the standard half hard Table X tube as encountered everywhere.
 
Dave Newbitt.
 
From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 8:14 AM
To: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pipe bending
 
Annealing copper makes it much easier to bend and is well worthwhile.  It?s just a matter of using a blow lamp to heat it red hot and then leaving it to cool.  It?s also worth remembering that working the metal ( bending or hammering ) hardens it again, so if you?re doing complex work, you might need to anneal it multiple times.
 
I once made a fairly simple boiler for a steam engine from copper. Shaping the flanges for the ends involved a lot of copper beating and annealing, but it eventually turned out well. For the actual annealing, I used a combination of an old fashioned Primus stove to get most of it fairly hot and then a propane blow lamp to get it red hot.
 
I?m alarmed at the description on the R/C link about trombone making.  Essentially the tight bends are made by filling an annealed pipe with frozen soapy water and carefully bending it over a mandrel.  However for a trombone, you need a perfectly circular section throughout and the proposed way to do it is by putting a ball bearing inside and forcing it through by pushing it with smaller ball bearings.  I can see that would work, but am alarmed at the part where he suggests connecting an air line to the end of the tube  and pushing the ball bearing through with air pressure.  It seems to me that he is describing some sort of air gun which would suddenly eject a large ball bearing with considerable velocity.
 
My previous house at Newbury had very neat plumbing.  I called in a plumber to do some work, he was around retirement age.  When he lifted the floorboards, he got quite emotional because he realised that he worked on our house when he was an apprentice.  The plumber who he was apprenticed to was careful with money and resented buying commercial fittings for plumbing.  He invested in a tool for flaring out pipes so that one pipe telescopes over the next and is then end-fed with solder.  The joins are so neat that you don?t necessarily notice them. The plumber knew exactly when our house was built because he knew the machine was bought just before he started his apprenticeship and that the plumber who owned it married and moved to another town a couple of years later. No other plumber in the area used that system.
 
Alan Taylor

> On 18 Jul 2021, at 04:24, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Pipe bending can be made a lot easier if you anneal the pipe first. I've not done any pipe bending recently so I'd better not try to advise on this. But there are interesting discussions about this and other plumbing techniques on various forums. For example:
>  
> https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1249297-Can-I-anneal-copper-pipe-with-a-propane-torch
>  
> There are also some interesting discussions below demonstrations on YouTube. For example:
>  
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-rheXbVa4
>  
> KW
>  
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sun Jul 18 04:48:04 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 10:48:04 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
In-Reply-To: <F0EDB541-1CA7-4964-A378-D9FDF6E30D2F@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <DB5F068BAF5947D4B30C805330226ECD@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<F0EDB541-1CA7-4964-A378-D9FDF6E30D2F@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <91F0A9D572DE4D2896F39382EE1B19DC@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Peter ? I seem to recall ?quenching? (plunging into cold fluid) as being the process for tempering/hardening. Much skilled judgement required with things like screwdriver blade tips to avoid over-brittle results.

When the discussion touched on the topic of bending springs, I don?t think anyone mentioned that for microbore, external springs were available as well as the standard internal variety. I still have 8mm, 10mm and 15mm internal springs but the muscle strength/severe wrist arthritis precluded 22mm long ago.

Also on the springs v pipe bender topic, one thing that defeats any bender I?ve encountered is a requirement for a slight offset to be set in a very short length of tube whereas an internal spring can accommodate this if your thumbs are strong enough.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Peter Fox 
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 10:12 AM
To: David Newbitt 
Cc: Alan Taylor ; tech1 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pipe bending

Interesting that annealing works with letting the copper cool. I thought the idea was to quench it. I only tried that once on a recalcitrant lenghth of 28mm that kept rippling and it didnt help. Maybe I didnt get it hot enough. The problem was really the bender, It was my first one, a Hilmor floorstander, given to me because bits were missing.  I had fabricated the roller part, buying the guides and a missing former. Turns out it is critical to have almost zero gap between the roller and the guide. It was good on 15 and 22mm most of time. Modern ones also have part of the lever threaded to adjust the gap. I guess Dickie?s spacers were just right? Some plumbers reckon the pipe is not so good these days. (Of course)  
I don?t envy all that swaging and ?manipulative? compression fitting at the bottom of a muddy hole. The other almost lost art is lead to copper where you (they) bell out the lead and then wipe the plumbers solder (2 of lead to 1 of tin rather than 1:1) into a lovely curvy joint with a moleskin and tallow . I was forced to try it once and although it worked (ie didn?t leak while I owned the house) it was not beautiful. Definitely an experts job. 


Peter Fox

On 18 Jul 2021, at 09:25, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


? 
Flaring was of course used not just in the form that permitted one length of tube to spigot into another but also in the form that ?belled ?the end of the tube for use with Type B (manipulative) compression fittings normally used with soft (i.e. fully annealed) copper tube, particularly when that was the material commonly used below ground for water services into premises. The compression fittings most folk will be familiar with are Type A and used with the standard half hard Table X tube as encountered everywhere.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 8:14 AM
To: tech1 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pipe bending

Annealing copper makes it much easier to bend and is well worthwhile.  It?s just a matter of using a blow lamp to heat it red hot and then leaving it to cool.  It?s also worth remembering that working the metal ( bending or hammering ) hardens it again, so if you?re doing complex work, you might need to anneal it multiple times.

I once made a fairly simple boiler for a steam engine from copper. Shaping the flanges for the ends involved a lot of copper beating and annealing, but it eventually turned out well. For the actual annealing, I used a combination of an old fashioned Primus stove to get most of it fairly hot and then a propane blow lamp to get it red hot.

I?m alarmed at the description on the R/C link about trombone making.  Essentially the tight bends are made by filling an annealed pipe with frozen soapy water and carefully bending it over a mandrel.  However for a trombone, you need a perfectly circular section throughout and the proposed way to do it is by putting a ball bearing inside and forcing it through by pushing it with smaller ball bearings.  I can see that would work, but am alarmed at the part where he suggests connecting an air line to the end of the tube  and pushing the ball bearing through with air pressure.  It seems to me that he is describing some sort of air gun which would suddenly eject a large ball bearing with considerable velocity.

My previous house at Newbury had very neat plumbing.  I called in a plumber to do some work, he was around retirement age.  When he lifted the floorboards, he got quite emotional because he realised that he worked on our house when he was an apprentice.  The plumber who he was apprenticed to was careful with money and resented buying commercial fittings for plumbing.  He invested in a tool for flaring out pipes so that one pipe telescopes over the next and is then end-fed with solder.  The joins are so neat that you don?t necessarily notice them. The plumber knew exactly when our house was built because he knew the machine was bought just before he started his apprenticeship and that the plumber who owned it married and moved to another town a couple of years later. No other plumber in the area used that system.

Alan Taylor


  On 18 Jul 2021, at 04:24, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


  ? 
  Pipe bending can be made a lot easier if you anneal the pipe first. I've not done any pipe bending recently so I'd better not try to advise on this. But there are interesting discussions about this and other plumbing techniques on various forums. For example:

  https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1249297-Can-I-anneal-copper-pipe-with-a-propane-torch


  There are also some interesting discussions below demonstrations on YouTube. For example:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-rheXbVa4


  KW


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From davesound at btinternet.com  Sun Jul 18 05:02:04 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 11:02:04 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <04dd0341-7db8-7fab-388f-c1797deb34d8@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <594cfeeb51davesound@btinternet.com>
	<2955B1E5-6C3F-4F51-B710-DDA2E46D309F@me.com>
	<594d6b4d0bdavesound@btinternet.com>
	<04dd0341-7db8-7fab-388f-c1797deb34d8@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <594de7e504davesound@btinternet.com>

In article <04dd0341-7db8-7fab-388f-c1797deb34d8 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
   Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> That's Kunifer pipe? Or pure copper?

I normally use Kunifer and indeed have a roll here. I'd previously
replaced the one which runs between the rear brakes - about a year ago.
But that is very easy to get at.

Automec supply a complete kit of pipes for a reasonable price, so decided
to go down that route. And they give the choice of copper or Kunifer, but
do mention that copper is easier to bend, so went with that given how
awkward some of the runs are to replace. I did pre-bend them using the old
as a template, but the most difficult will have to be further bent and
them straightened to install. 

I've certainly read that Kunifer is better, but reckon the copper ones
will see me out anyway. ;-)

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sun Jul 18 05:05:38 2021
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 11:05:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
In-Reply-To: <91F0A9D572DE4D2896F39382EE1B19DC@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <91F0A9D572DE4D2896F39382EE1B19DC@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <6FA213F0-2A0D-4C7D-832A-D1234EA2CD54@zero51.force9.co.uk>

Agreed about quenching steel, watching the gold and blue stripes flowing down the blade or whatever and then freezing it ie holding the moment by plunging into oil but no practical experience. I don?t think copper follows those rules. 
There are limits to machine bends as you say. There are or were some nice neat premade ?cross over? end feed fittings for getting to/from one of a parallel pair of 15mm pipes. I cant find them in a cursory scan or Screwfix.

Peter Fox

On 18 Jul 2021, at 10:48, David Newbitt <dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net> wrote:

?
Peter ? I seem to recall ?quenching? (plunging into cold fluid) as being the process for tempering/hardening. Much skilled judgement required with things like screwdriver blade tips to avoid over-brittle results.
 
When the discussion touched on the topic of bending springs, I don?t think anyone mentioned that for microbore, external springs were available as well as the standard internal variety. I still have 8mm, 10mm and 15mm internal springs but the muscle strength/severe wrist arthritis precluded 22mm long ago.
 
Also on the springs v pipe bender topic, one thing that defeats any bender I?ve encountered is a requirement for a slight offset to be set in a very short length of tube whereas an internal spring can accommodate this if your thumbs are strong enough.
 
Dave Newbitt.
 
From: Peter Fox
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 10:12 AM
To: David Newbitt
Cc: Alan Taylor ; tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pipe bending
 
Interesting that annealing works with letting the copper cool. I thought the idea was to quench it. I only tried that once on a recalcitrant lenghth of 28mm that kept rippling and it didnt help. Maybe I didnt get it hot enough. The problem was really the bender, It was my first one, a Hilmor floorstander, given to me because bits were missing.  I had fabricated the roller part, buying the guides and a missing former. Turns out it is critical to have almost zero gap between the roller and the guide. It was good on 15 and 22mm most of time. Modern ones also have part of the lever threaded to adjust the gap. I guess Dickie?s spacers were just right? Some plumbers reckon the pipe is not so good these days. (Of course) 
I don?t envy all that swaging and ?manipulative? compression fitting at the bottom of a muddy hole. The other almost lost art is lead to copper where you (they) bell out the lead and then wipe the plumbers solder (2 of lead to 1 of tin rather than 1:1) into a lovely curvy joint with a moleskin and tallow . I was forced to try it once and although it worked (ie didn?t leak while I owned the house) it was not beautiful. Definitely an experts job. 

Peter Fox

On 18 Jul 2021, at 09:25, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Flaring was of course used not just in the form that permitted one length of tube to spigot into another but also in the form that ?belled ?the end of the tube for use with Type B (manipulative) compression fittings normally used with soft (i.e. fully annealed) copper tube, particularly when that was the material commonly used below ground for water services into premises. The compression fittings most folk will be familiar with are Type A and used with the standard half hard Table X tube as encountered everywhere.
 
Dave Newbitt.
 
From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 8:14 AM
To: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pipe bending
 
Annealing copper makes it much easier to bend and is well worthwhile.  It?s just a matter of using a blow lamp to heat it red hot and then leaving it to cool.  It?s also worth remembering that working the metal ( bending or hammering ) hardens it again, so if you?re doing complex work, you might need to anneal it multiple times.
 
I once made a fairly simple boiler for a steam engine from copper. Shaping the flanges for the ends involved a lot of copper beating and annealing, but it eventually turned out well. For the actual annealing, I used a combination of an old fashioned Primus stove to get most of it fairly hot and then a propane blow lamp to get it red hot.
 
I?m alarmed at the description on the R/C link about trombone making.  Essentially the tight bends are made by filling an annealed pipe with frozen soapy water and carefully bending it over a mandrel.  However for a trombone, you need a perfectly circular section throughout and the proposed way to do it is by putting a ball bearing inside and forcing it through by pushing it with smaller ball bearings.  I can see that would work, but am alarmed at the part where he suggests connecting an air line to the end of the tube  and pushing the ball bearing through with air pressure.  It seems to me that he is describing some sort of air gun which would suddenly eject a large ball bearing with considerable velocity.
 
My previous house at Newbury had very neat plumbing.  I called in a plumber to do some work, he was around retirement age.  When he lifted the floorboards, he got quite emotional because he realised that he worked on our house when he was an apprentice.  The plumber who he was apprenticed to was careful with money and resented buying commercial fittings for plumbing.  He invested in a tool for flaring out pipes so that one pipe telescopes over the next and is then end-fed with solder.  The joins are so neat that you don?t necessarily notice them. The plumber knew exactly when our house was built because he knew the machine was bought just before he started his apprenticeship and that the plumber who owned it married and moved to another town a couple of years later. No other plumber in the area used that system.
 
Alan Taylor

> On 18 Jul 2021, at 04:24, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Pipe bending can be made a lot easier if you anneal the pipe first. I've not done any pipe bending recently so I'd better not try to advise on this. But there are interesting discussions about this and other plumbing techniques on various forums. For example:
>  
> https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1249297-Can-I-anneal-copper-pipe-with-a-propane-torch
>  
> There are also some interesting discussions below demonstrations on YouTube. For example:
>  
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-rheXbVa4
>  
> KW
>  
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Jul 18 05:07:37 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 11:07:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Pipe bending
In-Reply-To: <F0EDB541-1CA7-4964-A378-D9FDF6E30D2F@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <F0EDB541-1CA7-4964-A378-D9FDF6E30D2F@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <F393D90D-A967-4C3D-9C4E-632CA404C886@me.com>

According to one of the people responding within one of the links Keith provided, copper is unique in that you can anneal it either by quenching it or leaving it to cool in air.  Most metals are annealed by one means or the other. I always left it to cool slowly because that?s how I had originally been taught to do it.  

During my days of building radio controlled aircraft, I often needed to anneal aluminium alloy sheets before bending them.  Heating aluminium is tricky because it doesn?t get red hot, it just looks much the same until it suddenly melts.  If I remember correctly, I used to have to rub a bar of soap along it and look for the soap to discolour to indicate the right temperature. 

Alan Taylor

> On 18 Jul 2021, at 10:12, Peter Fox <peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Interesting that annealing works with letting the copper cool. I thought the idea was to quench it. I only tried that once on a recalcitrant lenghth of 28mm that kept rippling and it didnt help. Maybe I didnt get it hot enough. The problem was really the bender, It was my first one, a Hilmor floorstander, given to me because bits were missing.  I had fabricated the roller part, buying the guides and a missing former. Turns out it is critical to have almost zero gap between the roller and the guide. It was good on 15 and 22mm most of time. Modern ones also have part of the lever threaded to adjust the gap. I guess Dickie?s spacers were just right? Some plumbers reckon the pipe is not so good these days. (Of course) 
> I don?t envy all that swaging and ?manipulative? compression fitting at the bottom of a muddy hole. The other almost lost art is lead to copper where you (they) bell out the lead and then wipe the plumbers solder (2 of lead to 1 of tin rather than 1:1) into a lovely curvy joint with a moleskin and tallow . I was forced to try it once and although it worked (ie didn?t leak while I owned the house) it was not beautiful. Definitely an experts job. 
> 
> Peter Fox
> 
> On 18 Jul 2021, at 09:25, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Flaring was of course used not just in the form that permitted one length of tube to spigot into another but also in the form that ?belled ?the end of the tube for use with Type B (manipulative) compression fittings normally used with soft (i.e. fully annealed) copper tube, particularly when that was the material commonly used below ground for water services into premises. The compression fittings most folk will be familiar with are Type A and used with the standard half hard Table X tube as encountered everywhere.
>  
> Dave Newbitt.
>  
> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 8:14 AM
> To: tech1
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pipe bending
>  
> Annealing copper makes it much easier to bend and is well worthwhile.  It?s just a matter of using a blow lamp to heat it red hot and then leaving it to cool.  It?s also worth remembering that working the metal ( bending or hammering ) hardens it again, so if you?re doing complex work, you might need to anneal it multiple times.
>  
> I once made a fairly simple boiler for a steam engine from copper. Shaping the flanges for the ends involved a lot of copper beating and annealing, but it eventually turned out well. For the actual annealing, I used a combination of an old fashioned Primus stove to get most of it fairly hot and then a propane blow lamp to get it red hot.
>  
> I?m alarmed at the description on the R/C link about trombone making.  Essentially the tight bends are made by filling an annealed pipe with frozen soapy water and carefully bending it over a mandrel.  However for a trombone, you need a perfectly circular section throughout and the proposed way to do it is by putting a ball bearing inside and forcing it through by pushing it with smaller ball bearings.  I can see that would work, but am alarmed at the part where he suggests connecting an air line to the end of the tube  and pushing the ball bearing through with air pressure.  It seems to me that he is describing some sort of air gun which would suddenly eject a large ball bearing with considerable velocity.
>  
> My previous house at Newbury had very neat plumbing.  I called in a plumber to do some work, he was around retirement age.  When he lifted the floorboards, he got quite emotional because he realised that he worked on our house when he was an apprentice.  The plumber who he was apprenticed to was careful with money and resented buying commercial fittings for plumbing.  He invested in a tool for flaring out pipes so that one pipe telescopes over the next and is then end-fed with solder.  The joins are so neat that you don?t necessarily notice them. The plumber knew exactly when our house was built because he knew the machine was bought just before he started his apprenticeship and that the plumber who owned it married and moved to another town a couple of years later. No other plumber in the area used that system.
>  
> Alan Taylor
> 
>> On 18 Jul 2021, at 04:24, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> Pipe bending can be made a lot easier if you anneal the pipe first. I've not done any pipe bending recently so I'd better not try to advise on this. But there are interesting discussions about this and other plumbing techniques on various forums. For example:
>>  
>> https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1249297-Can-I-anneal-copper-pipe-with-a-propane-torch
>>  
>> There are also some interesting discussions below demonstrations on YouTube. For example:
>>  
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-rheXbVa4
>>  
>> KW
>>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Jul 18 12:11:41 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 18:11:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Central heating
In-Reply-To: <F0EDB541-1CA7-4964-A378-D9FDF6E30D2F@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <DB5F068BAF5947D4B30C805330226ECD@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<F0EDB541-1CA7-4964-A378-D9FDF6E30D2F@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <52398d67-440e-09f9-4c02-a201eb43a2df@btinternet.com>

When I started my central heating project in the 1970's I chatted to 
mechanical workships in the basement of the East Tower at TVC and got 
all sorts of useful tips about pipe work, both gas and water ( I still 
have a large collection of all sizes of iron fittings from ?" to 1" from 
them!).? I actually bought a moleskin wiping pad just in case but 
luckily never had to use it! My worst moment was when I was going to 
change my rising main water stopcock for one with a drain tap on it and 
found that my new one wouldn't fit! The brass spigot on the 1934 lead 
pipe was slightly too large so after a lot of emery cloth'ing it worked. 
I only ever used end-feed capilliary fittings as I hated the chunky 
Yorkshire screw fittings, had I known about the 'belling' devices I 
would have used them! I have painted the pipe runs on my floor boards so 
that no one after me should put a nail through one! I lined each notch 
in the joists with felt so there are no expansion noises and using 
skirting heaters throughout the water content is very low and heats up 
very quickly, the added bonus is that all of the system is in copper so 
that there is no corrosion and black sludge. Most of my 'expertise' came 
from Larry Goodson when we worked together in pres. A. He used to help 
his brother installing systems around East Sheen and lived next door to 
my wife's midwife! The best guide I used was 'A Beginners Guide to 
Central Heating', a reprint from 'Do it Yourself Magazine' by George 
Steele. Sadly, I still have all the dozens of A4 pages of heat-loss 
calculations for each room and my shopping list for all the pipe 
lengths, fittings, and so on, plus letters from Potterton about my 
re-designed electrical wiring which they agreed would work (and it still 
is!), all this in the 1970's. Of course, nowadays, it would all be 
illegal! Cheers, Dave

On 18/07/2021 10:12, Peter Fox via Tech1 wrote:
> Interesting that annealing works with letting the copper cool. I 
> thought the idea was to quench it. I only tried that once on a 
> recalcitrant lenghth of 28mm that kept rippling and it didnt help. 
> Maybe I didnt get it hot enough. The problem was really the bender, It 
> was my first one, a Hilmor floorstander, given to me because bits were 
> missing. ?I had fabricated the roller part, buying the guides and a 
> missing former. Turns out it is critical to have almost zero gap 
> between the roller and the guide. It was good on 15 and 22mm most of 
> time. Modern ones also have part of the lever threaded to adjust the 
> gap. I guess Dickie?s spacers were just right? Some plumbers reckon 
> the pipe is not so good these days. (Of course)
> I don?t envy all that swaging and ?manipulative? compression fitting 
> at the bottom of a muddy hole. The other almost lost art is lead to 
> copper where you (they) bell out the lead and then wipe the plumbers 
> solder (2 of lead to 1 of tin rather than 1:1) into a lovely curvy 
> joint with a moleskin and tallow . I was forced to try it once and 
> although it worked (ie didn?t leak while I owned the house) it was not 
> beautiful. Definitely an experts job.
>
> Peter Fox
>
> On 18 Jul 2021, at 09:25, David Newbitt via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?
> Flaring was of course used not just in the form that permitted one 
> length of tube to spigot into another but also in the form that 
> ?belled ?the end of the tube for use with Type B (manipulative) 
> compression fittings normally used with soft (i.e. fully annealed) 
> copper tube, particularly when that was the material commonly used 
> below ground for water services into premises. The compression 
> fittings most folk will be familiar with are Type A and used with the 
> standard half hard Table X tube as encountered everywhere.
> Dave Newbitt.
> *From:* Alan Taylor via Tech1
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 18, 2021 8:14 AM
> *To:* tech1
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Pipe bending
> Annealing copper makes it much easier to bend and is well worthwhile.? 
> It?s just a matter of using a blow lamp to heat it red hot and then 
> leaving it to cool.? It?s also worth remembering that working the 
> metal ( bending or hammering ) hardens it again, so if you?re doing 
> complex work, you might need to anneal it multiple times.
> I once made a fairly simple boiler for a steam engine from copper. 
> Shaping the flanges for the ends involved a lot of copper beating and 
> annealing, but it eventually turned out well. For the actual 
> annealing, I used a combination of an old fashioned Primus stove to 
> get most of it fairly hot and then a propane blow lamp to get it red hot.
> I?m alarmed at the description on the R/C link about trombone making.? 
> Essentially the tight bends are made by filling an annealed pipe with 
> frozen soapy water and carefully bending it over a mandrel. However 
> for a trombone, you need a perfectly circular section throughout and 
> the proposed way to do it is by putting a ball bearing inside and 
> forcing it through by pushing it with smaller ball bearings.? I can 
> see that would work, but am alarmed at the part where he suggests 
> connecting an air line to the end of the tube? and pushing the ball 
> bearing through with air pressure.? It seems to me that he is 
> describing some sort of air gun which would suddenly eject a large 
> ball bearing with considerable velocity.
> My previous house at Newbury had very neat plumbing.? I called in a 
> plumber to do some work, he was around retirement age.? When he lifted 
> the floorboards, he got quite emotional because he realised that he 
> worked on our house when he was an apprentice.? The plumber who he was 
> apprenticed to was careful with money and resented buying commercial 
> fittings for plumbing.? He invested in a tool for flaring out pipes so 
> that one pipe telescopes over the next and is then end-fed with 
> solder.? The joins are so neat that you don?t necessarily notice them. 
> The plumber knew exactly when our house was built because he knew the 
> machine was bought just before he started his apprenticeship and that 
> the plumber who owned it married and moved to another town a couple of 
> years later. No other plumber in the area used that system.
> Alan Taylor
>
>> On 18 Jul 2021, at 04:24, Keith Wicks via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Pipe bending can be made a lot easier if you anneal the pipe first. 
>> I've not done any pipe bending recently so I'd better not try to 
>> advise on this. But there are interesting discussions about this and 
>> other plumbing techniques on various forums. For example:
>> https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1249297-Can-I-anneal-copper-pipe-with-a-propane-torch 
>> <https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1249297-Can-I-anneal-copper-pipe-with-a-propane-torch>
>> There are also some interesting discussions below demonstrations on 
>> YouTube. For example:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-rheXbVa4 
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-rheXbVa4>
>> KW
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Jul 18 12:22:35 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 18:22:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Central heating part 2
Message-ID: <34bed8d3-c120-c95c-7924-43c7fa7c8cdc@btinternet.com>

Of course you can't use conventional radiator valves with skirting 
heaters so I used 26 in-line ball valves, however, after a few years I 
found that when you tried to adjust them they leaked! This was because 
the O-rings had hardened and crumbled! Luckily, I found a supplier in 
Teddington who did O-rings and when I was ordering enough to replace 
them all I had a brain wave and asked if they did high-temperature 
versions! They did! So I replaced all of the O-rings in all of my 26 
valves a couple of inches off the floor! What a lovely job! I would hate 
to have to do it again at my advanced age! Cheers, Dave



From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Jul 18 12:41:12 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 18:41:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] F1
Message-ID: <b50c855c-e405-d95e-e1f8-75de636d5adb@btinternet.com>

Well, what a day and what a race! I won't comment on the collision apart 
from saying that I thought Max turned into Lewis and the outcome was 
inevitable, BUT, would the BBC have cut away from the moment when Lewis 
got ot of his car at the end of the race? Ch.4 showed a complete lack of 
occasion by going straight to adverts! Another couple of minutes to 
savour the moment wouldn't have mattered! Cheers, Dave



From waresound at msn.com  Sun Jul 18 13:19:48 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 18:19:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Central heating
In-Reply-To: <52398d67-440e-09f9-4c02-a201eb43a2df@btinternet.com>
References: <DB5F068BAF5947D4B30C805330226ECD@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<F0EDB541-1CA7-4964-A378-D9FDF6E30D2F@zero51.force9.co.uk>,
	<52398d67-440e-09f9-4c02-a201eb43a2df@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981A42F3B0604676E2E5582A7E09@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I think Larry Goodson and Dave Lock did central heating as a sideline. My first (Chestnut Road, Kingston ) installation was a Potterton T60. Potterton were handy for me as they were in Wandsworth just next door to where we got our LP sleeves printed. Also handy for Ewarts TV studio, if you ever worked there. Our Chestnut Road incoming water main was lead, and I did achieve the flare and solder to copper joint!

Soldering:
My pipe organ building has taken me into all sorts of interesting, largely forgotten, crafts. On a number of occasions I?ve had to repair metal organ pipes. These are typically made  from thin sheets of tin/lead alloy. Usually that?s 20% tin and 80% lead, sometimes the other way round according to the resonance and sound you want. Imagine soldering that! It?s only possible because the solder is 40% tin and 60% lead. 60/40 is the Eutectic point, at which point the melting temperature is a few degrees lower than either tin or lead. An incredible skill is required for soldering solder! Lots on Youtube about pipe making and worth a look if you?ve nothing better to do.
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 18 Jul 2021, at 19:12, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

When I started my central heating project in the 1970's I chatted to mechanical workships in the basement of the East Tower at TVC and got all sorts of useful tips about pipe work, both gas and water ( I still have a large collection of all sizes of iron fittings from ?" to 1" from them!).  I actually bought a moleskin wiping pad just in case but luckily never had to use it! My worst moment was when I was going to change my rising main water stopcock for one with a drain tap on it and found that my new one wouldn't fit! The brass spigot on the 1934 lead pipe was slightly too large so after a lot of emery cloth'ing it worked. I only ever used end-feed capilliary fittings as I hated the chunky Yorkshire screw fittings, had I known about the 'belling' devices I would have used them! I have painted the pipe runs on my floor boards so that no one after me should put a nail through one! I lined each notch in the joists with felt so there are no expansion noises and using skirting heaters throughout the water content is very low and heats up very quickly, the added bonus is that all of the system is in copper so that there is no corrosion and black sludge. Most of my 'expertise' came from Larry Goodson when we worked together in pres. A. He used to help his brother installing systems around East Sheen and lived next door to my wife's midwife! The best guide I used was 'A Beginners Guide to Central Heating', a reprint from 'Do it Yourself Magazine' by George Steele. Sadly, I still have all the dozens of A4 pages of heat-loss calculations for each room and my shopping list for all the pipe lengths, fittings, and so on, plus letters from Potterton about my re-designed electrical wiring which they agreed would work (and it still is!), all this in the 1970's. Of course, nowadays, it would all be illegal! Cheers, Dave

On 18/07/2021 10:12, Peter Fox via Tech1 wrote:
Interesting that annealing works with letting the copper cool. I thought the idea was to quench it. I only tried that once on a recalcitrant lenghth of 28mm that kept rippling and it didnt help. Maybe I didnt get it hot enough. The problem was really the bender, It was my first one, a Hilmor floorstander, given to me because bits were missing.  I had fabricated the roller part, buying the guides and a missing former. Turns out it is critical to have almost zero gap between the roller and the guide. It was good on 15 and 22mm most of time. Modern ones also have part of the lever threaded to adjust the gap. I guess Dickie?s spacers were just right? Some plumbers reckon the pipe is not so good these days. (Of course)
I don?t envy all that swaging and ?manipulative? compression fitting at the bottom of a muddy hole. The other almost lost art is lead to copper where you (they) bell out the lead and then wipe the plumbers solder (2 of lead to 1 of tin rather than 1:1) into a lovely curvy joint with a moleskin and tallow . I was forced to try it once and although it worked (ie didn?t leak while I owned the house) it was not beautiful. Definitely an experts job.

Peter Fox

On 18 Jul 2021, at 09:25, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk><mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Flaring was of course used not just in the form that permitted one length of tube to spigot into another but also in the form that ?belled ?the end of the tube for use with Type B (manipulative) compression fittings normally used with soft (i.e. fully annealed) copper tube, particularly when that was the material commonly used below ground for water services into premises. The compression fittings most folk will be familiar with are Type A and used with the standard half hard Table X tube as encountered everywhere.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 8:14 AM
To: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pipe bending

Annealing copper makes it much easier to bend and is well worthwhile.  It?s just a matter of using a blow lamp to heat it red hot and then leaving it to cool.  It?s also worth remembering that working the metal ( bending or hammering ) hardens it again, so if you?re doing complex work, you might need to anneal it multiple times.

I once made a fairly simple boiler for a steam engine from copper. Shaping the flanges for the ends involved a lot of copper beating and annealing, but it eventually turned out well. For the actual annealing, I used a combination of an old fashioned Primus stove to get most of it fairly hot and then a propane blow lamp to get it red hot.

I?m alarmed at the description on the R/C link about trombone making.  Essentially the tight bends are made by filling an annealed pipe with frozen soapy water and carefully bending it over a mandrel.  However for a trombone, you need a perfectly circular section throughout and the proposed way to do it is by putting a ball bearing inside and forcing it through by pushing it with smaller ball bearings.  I can see that would work, but am alarmed at the part where he suggests connecting an air line to the end of the tube  and pushing the ball bearing through with air pressure.  It seems to me that he is describing some sort of air gun which would suddenly eject a large ball bearing with considerable velocity.

My previous house at Newbury had very neat plumbing.  I called in a plumber to do some work, he was around retirement age.  When he lifted the floorboards, he got quite emotional because he realised that he worked on our house when he was an apprentice.  The plumber who he was apprenticed to was careful with money and resented buying commercial fittings for plumbing.  He invested in a tool for flaring out pipes so that one pipe telescopes over the next and is then end-fed with solder.  The joins are so neat that you don?t necessarily notice them. The plumber knew exactly when our house was built because he knew the machine was bought just before he started his apprenticeship and that the plumber who owned it married and moved to another town a couple of years later. No other plumber in the area used that system.

Alan Taylor

On 18 Jul 2021, at 04:24, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk><mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Pipe bending can be made a lot easier if you anneal the pipe first. I've not done any pipe bending recently so I'd better not try to advise on this. But there are interesting discussions about this and other plumbing techniques on various forums. For example:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1249297-Can-I-anneal-copper-pipe-with-a-propane-torch

There are also some interesting discussions below demonstrations on YouTube. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-rheXbVa4

KW


________________________________
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http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From Waresound at msn.com  Sun Jul 18 15:18:01 2021
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 20:18:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Central heating
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981A42F3B0604676E2E5582A7E09@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <DB5F068BAF5947D4B30C805330226ECD@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<F0EDB541-1CA7-4964-A378-D9FDF6E30D2F@zero51.force9.co.uk>,
	<52398d67-440e-09f9-4c02-a201eb43a2df@btinternet.com>,
	<PAXP191MB1981A42F3B0604676E2E5582A7E09@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB19810FA06618192D5C2EC861A7E09@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

That should have been 40/60 tin/lead is the Eutectic point, by the way, or 60/40 lead/tin. Damn Rioja!
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 18 Jul 2021, at 20:19, Nick Ware <Waresound at msn.com> wrote:

? I think Larry Goodson and Dave Lock did central heating as a sideline. My first (Chestnut Road, Kingston ) installation was a Potterton T60. Potterton were handy for me as they were in Wandsworth just next door to where we got our LP sleeves printed. Also handy for Ewarts TV studio, if you ever worked there. Our Chestnut Road incoming water main was lead, and I did achieve the flare and solder to copper joint!

Soldering:
My pipe organ building has taken me into all sorts of interesting, largely forgotten, crafts. On a number of occasions I?ve had to repair metal organ pipes. These are typically made  from thin sheets of tin/lead alloy. Usually that?s 20% tin and 80% lead, sometimes the other way round according to the resonance and sound you want. Imagine soldering that! It?s only possible because the solder is 40% tin and 60% lead. 60/40 is the Eutectic point, at which point the melting temperature is a few degrees lower than either tin or lead. An incredible skill is required for soldering solder! Lots on Youtube about pipe making and worth a look if you?ve nothing better to do.
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 18 Jul 2021, at 19:12, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

When I started my central heating project in the 1970's I chatted to mechanical workships in the basement of the East Tower at TVC and got all sorts of useful tips about pipe work, both gas and water ( I still have a large collection of all sizes of iron fittings from ?" to 1" from them!).  I actually bought a moleskin wiping pad just in case but luckily never had to use it! My worst moment was when I was going to change my rising main water stopcock for one with a drain tap on it and found that my new one wouldn't fit! The brass spigot on the 1934 lead pipe was slightly too large so after a lot of emery cloth'ing it worked. I only ever used end-feed capilliary fittings as I hated the chunky Yorkshire screw fittings, had I known about the 'belling' devices I would have used them! I have painted the pipe runs on my floor boards so that no one after me should put a nail through one! I lined each notch in the joists with felt so there are no expansion noises and using skirting heaters throughout the water content is very low and heats up very quickly, the added bonus is that all of the system is in copper so that there is no corrosion and black sludge. Most of my 'expertise' came from Larry Goodson when we worked together in pres. A. He used to help his brother installing systems around East Sheen and lived next door to my wife's midwife! The best guide I used was 'A Beginners Guide to Central Heating', a reprint from 'Do it Yourself Magazine' by George Steele. Sadly, I still have all the dozens of A4 pages of heat-loss calculations for each room and my shopping list for all the pipe lengths, fittings, and so on, plus letters from Potterton about my re-designed electrical wiring which they agreed would work (and it still is!), all this in the 1970's. Of course, nowadays, it would all be illegal! Cheers, Dave

On 18/07/2021 10:12, Peter Fox via Tech1 wrote:
Interesting that annealing works with letting the copper cool. I thought the idea was to quench it. I only tried that once on a recalcitrant lenghth of 28mm that kept rippling and it didnt help. Maybe I didnt get it hot enough. The problem was really the bender, It was my first one, a Hilmor floorstander, given to me because bits were missing.  I had fabricated the roller part, buying the guides and a missing former. Turns out it is critical to have almost zero gap between the roller and the guide. It was good on 15 and 22mm most of time. Modern ones also have part of the lever threaded to adjust the gap. I guess Dickie?s spacers were just right? Some plumbers reckon the pipe is not so good these days. (Of course)
I don?t envy all that swaging and ?manipulative? compression fitting at the bottom of a muddy hole. The other almost lost art is lead to copper where you (they) bell out the lead and then wipe the plumbers solder (2 of lead to 1 of tin rather than 1:1) into a lovely curvy joint with a moleskin and tallow . I was forced to try it once and although it worked (ie didn?t leak while I owned the house) it was not beautiful. Definitely an experts job.

Peter Fox

On 18 Jul 2021, at 09:25, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk><mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Flaring was of course used not just in the form that permitted one length of tube to spigot into another but also in the form that ?belled ?the end of the tube for use with Type B (manipulative) compression fittings normally used with soft (i.e. fully annealed) copper tube, particularly when that was the material commonly used below ground for water services into premises. The compression fittings most folk will be familiar with are Type A and used with the standard half hard Table X tube as encountered everywhere.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 8:14 AM
To: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pipe bending

Annealing copper makes it much easier to bend and is well worthwhile.  It?s just a matter of using a blow lamp to heat it red hot and then leaving it to cool.  It?s also worth remembering that working the metal ( bending or hammering ) hardens it again, so if you?re doing complex work, you might need to anneal it multiple times.

I once made a fairly simple boiler for a steam engine from copper. Shaping the flanges for the ends involved a lot of copper beating and annealing, but it eventually turned out well. For the actual annealing, I used a combination of an old fashioned Primus stove to get most of it fairly hot and then a propane blow lamp to get it red hot.

I?m alarmed at the description on the R/C link about trombone making.  Essentially the tight bends are made by filling an annealed pipe with frozen soapy water and carefully bending it over a mandrel.  However for a trombone, you need a perfectly circular section throughout and the proposed way to do it is by putting a ball bearing inside and forcing it through by pushing it with smaller ball bearings.  I can see that would work, but am alarmed at the part where he suggests connecting an air line to the end of the tube  and pushing the ball bearing through with air pressure.  It seems to me that he is describing some sort of air gun which would suddenly eject a large ball bearing with considerable velocity.

My previous house at Newbury had very neat plumbing.  I called in a plumber to do some work, he was around retirement age.  When he lifted the floorboards, he got quite emotional because he realised that he worked on our house when he was an apprentice.  The plumber who he was apprenticed to was careful with money and resented buying commercial fittings for plumbing.  He invested in a tool for flaring out pipes so that one pipe telescopes over the next and is then end-fed with solder.  The joins are so neat that you don?t necessarily notice them. The plumber knew exactly when our house was built because he knew the machine was bought just before he started his apprenticeship and that the plumber who owned it married and moved to another town a couple of years later. No other plumber in the area used that system.

Alan Taylor

On 18 Jul 2021, at 04:24, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk><mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Pipe bending can be made a lot easier if you anneal the pipe first. I've not done any pipe bending recently so I'd better not try to advise on this. But there are interesting discussions about this and other plumbing techniques on various forums. For example:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1249297-Can-I-anneal-copper-pipe-with-a-propane-torch

There are also some interesting discussions below demonstrations on YouTube. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-rheXbVa4

KW


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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Mon Jul 19 04:05:49 2021
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:05:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Frank Smith
Message-ID: <093CD217-394B-4122-BA4D-D0A118CFD0B8@btinternet.com>

Hi everybody,
		I?m sending this again ?cos I got no reaction from anybody and it didn?t come back to me from either address! Maybe it never went.

I?ve been asked by Nigel Phillips if anybody remembers the time that Frank was on attachment to Tech Ops. I think it was in the mid to late eighties.

Frank was a frequent visitor to our lunches in various Buckinghamshire pubs following the Thursday BBC Network engineers (and the odd Tech Ops) walking group's outings.

Herewith a picture of Frank enjoying his lunch! (Tony Richey & Dave Lawton in the background)

	Barry.



Barry.



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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Mon Jul 19 04:17:52 2021
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:17:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Central heating
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981A42F3B0604676E2E5582A7E09@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <DB5F068BAF5947D4B30C805330226ECD@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<F0EDB541-1CA7-4964-A378-D9FDF6E30D2F@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<52398d67-440e-09f9-4c02-a201eb43a2df@btinternet.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981A42F3B0604676E2E5582A7E09@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <cfed53b2-758b-0d72-d59e-bee1f1ecf483@gmail.com>

Hi Nick,

In the world of Railway Modelling, there used to be large numbers of 
white metal kits.? To solder these, there was formulated a specific low 
melting point solder? This could be purchased from "all good model 
shops" ,? I had a 12-v (miniature) soldering iron, controlled off the 
railway DC controller, to get the right temperature.? All worked very 
well.? (Although of course one could disassemble the kit by dunking it 
in boiling water!)

Best regards, Alec

-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502

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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Mon Jul 19 04:28:14 2021
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:28:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Central heating
Message-ID: <CC70375D-E139-4775-9452-A9010BB1947D@zero51.force9.co.uk>

?
That Beginners Guide to Central Heating was the tech ops bible in the early seventies; ?Reproduction in whole or in part may not be made without the permission of the author. ?
 Faint hope! It must be the most copied and passed on guide since Moses started a stone diary.
I managed to root out a dog-eared copy for my son when he started home-owning and plumbing thirty five years later. Thank you George Steele!
It was Dave Hunter who brought the intial plumbing enthusiasm (and the article) to whichever crew it was, 13 maybe?  Dick Greening was an early convert too. I think I carried some ideas too far, drilling through the middle of the joists, in fractionally descending order, for airlock free draining and filling, from front to back of the house and posting the pipes through holes drilled in the outside walls.  That was to maintain joist strength and to reduce nailing issues too. No real world plumber could have done this, timewise, only BBC scheduling made it possible.
We did decide that sizing radiators according to the prevailing idea that living rooms and bathrooms should be 70 degrees, bedrooms 55? to 60?, hallways and utility rooms around 65? and having to therefore to close doors to maintain those temperatures was very old fashioned. Dick Greening said ?why spend ?4000 on a house and only live comfortably in a quarter of it??  Better to be able to leave internal doors open and use all spaces at your chosen comfort level. A night set-back thermostat dropped the temperature down at night. 
Heat loss calculations and rad sizes were all in BTUs and fahrenheit but having 0? difference between most internal walls and ceilings saved a few sums. Good job that calculators were becoming available.
No-one blew themselves up fitting gas boilers either because we did read the manuals (rtfm). 
Plumbers merchants were very sniffy about amateurs, weekdays only and expecting correct terminology. Fortunately a few enterprising retailers sprung up, patiently prepared to offer guidance and weekend sales and deliveries too. Some large retailers did have lovely catalogues though, with pictures and names of fittings. One of those  cats was absolute treasure. A bluffers guide effectively. No internet of course and embryonic Screwfix only sold screws!  

Peter Fox

On 18 Jul 2021, at 21:18, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
That should have been 40/60 tin/lead is the Eutectic point, by the way, or 60/40 lead/tin. Damn Rioja!
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 18 Jul 2021, at 20:19, Nick Ware <Waresound at msn.com> wrote:
> ? I think Larry Goodson and Dave Lock did central heating as a sideline. My first (Chestnut Road, Kingston ) installation was a Potterton T60. Potterton were handy for me as they were in Wandsworth just next door to where we got our LP sleeves printed. Also handy for Ewarts TV studio, if you ever worked there. Our Chestnut Road incoming water main was lead, and I did achieve the flare and solder to copper joint!
> 
> Soldering:
> My pipe organ building has taken me into all sorts of interesting, largely forgotten, crafts. On a number of occasions I?ve had to repair metal organ pipes. These are typically made  from thin sheets of tin/lead alloy. Usually that?s 20% tin and 80% lead, sometimes the other way round according to the resonance and sound you want. Imagine soldering that! It?s only possible because the solder is 40% tin and 60% lead. 60/40 is the Eutectic point, at which point the melting temperature is a few degrees lower than either tin or lead. An incredible skill is required for soldering solder! Lots on Youtube about pipe making and worth a look if you?ve nothing better to do.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> 
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 18 Jul 2021, at 19:12, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> ?
>> When I started my central heating project in the 1970's I chatted to mechanical workships in the basement of the East Tower at TVC and got all sorts of useful tips about pipe work, both gas and water ( I still have a large collection of all sizes of iron fittings from ?" to 1" from them!).  I actually bought a moleskin wiping pad just in case but luckily never had to use it! My worst moment was when I was going to change my rising main water stopcock for one with a drain tap on it and found that my new one wouldn't fit! The brass spigot on the 1934 lead pipe was slightly too large so after a lot of emery cloth'ing it worked. I only ever used end-feed capilliary fittings as I hated the chunky Yorkshire screw fittings, had I known about the 'belling' devices I would have used them! I have painted the pipe runs on my floor boards so that no one after me should put a nail through one! I lined each notch in the joists with felt so there are no expansion noises and using skirting heaters throughout the water content is very low and heats up very quickly, the added bonus is that all of the system is in copper so that there is no corrosion and black sludge. Most of my 'expertise' came from Larry Goodson when we worked together in pres. A. He used to help his brother installing systems around East Sheen and lived next door to my wife's midwife! The best guide I used was 'A Beginners Guide to Central Heating', a reprint from 'Do it Yourself Magazine' by George Steele. Sadly, I still have all the dozens of A4 pages of heat-loss calculations for each room and my shopping list for all the pipe lengths, fittings, and so on, plus letters from Potterton about my re-designed electrical wiring which they agreed would work (and it still is!), all this in the 1970's. Of course, nowadays, it would all be illegal! Cheers, Dave
>> 
>> On 18/07/2021 10:12, Peter Fox via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Interesting that annealing works with letting the copper cool. I thought the idea was to quench it. I only tried that once on a recalcitrant lenghth of 28mm that kept rippling and it didnt help. Maybe I didnt get it hot enough. The problem was really the bender, It was my first one, a Hilmor floorstander, given to me because bits were missing.  I had fabricated the roller part, buying the guides and a missing former. Turns out it is critical to have almost zero gap between the roller and the guide. It was good on 15 and 22mm most of time. Modern ones also have part of the lever threaded to adjust the gap. I guess Dickie?s spacers were just right? Some plumbers reckon the pipe is not so good these days. (Of course) 
>>> I don?t envy all that swaging and ?manipulative? compression fitting at the bottom of a muddy hole. The other almost lost art is lead to copper where you (they) bell out the lead and then wipe the plumbers solder (2 of lead to 1 of tin rather than 1:1) into a lovely curvy joint with a moleskin and tallow . I was forced to try it once and although it worked (ie didn?t leak while I owned the house) it was not beautiful. Definitely an experts job. 
>>> 
>>> Peter Fox
>>> 
>>> On 18 Jul 2021, at 09:25, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> Flaring was of course used not just in the form that permitted one length of tube to spigot into another but also in the form that ?belled ?the end of the tube for use with Type B (manipulative) compression fittings normally used with soft (i.e. fully annealed) copper tube, particularly when that was the material commonly used below ground for water services into premises. The compression fittings most folk will be familiar with are Type A and used with the standard half hard Table X tube as encountered everywhere.
>>>  
>>> Dave Newbitt.
>>>  
>>> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
>>> Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2021 8:14 AM
>>> To: tech1
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pipe bending
>>>  
>>> Annealing copper makes it much easier to bend and is well worthwhile.  It?s just a matter of using a blow lamp to heat it red hot and then leaving it to cool.  It?s also worth remembering that working the metal ( bending or hammering ) hardens it again, so if you?re doing complex work, you might need to anneal it multiple times.
>>>  
>>> I once made a fairly simple boiler for a steam engine from copper. Shaping the flanges for the ends involved a lot of copper beating and annealing, but it eventually turned out well. For the actual annealing, I used a combination of an old fashioned Primus stove to get most of it fairly hot and then a propane blow lamp to get it red hot.
>>>  
>>> I?m alarmed at the description on the R/C link about trombone making.  Essentially the tight bends are made by filling an annealed pipe with frozen soapy water and carefully bending it over a mandrel.  However for a trombone, you need a perfectly circular section throughout and the proposed way to do it is by putting a ball bearing inside and forcing it through by pushing it with smaller ball bearings.  I can see that would work, but am alarmed at the part where he suggests connecting an air line to the end of the tube  and pushing the ball bearing through with air pressure.  It seems to me that he is describing some sort of air gun which would suddenly eject a large ball bearing with considerable velocity.
>>>  
>>> My previous house at Newbury had very neat plumbing.  I called in a plumber to do some work, he was around retirement age.  When he lifted the floorboards, he got quite emotional because he realised that he worked on our house when he was an apprentice.  The plumber who he was apprenticed to was careful with money and resented buying commercial fittings for plumbing.  He invested in a tool for flaring out pipes so that one pipe telescopes over the next and is then end-fed with solder.  The joins are so neat that you don?t necessarily notice them. The plumber knew exactly when our house was built because he knew the machine was bought just before he started his apprenticeship and that the plumber who owned it married and moved to another town a couple of years later. No other plumber in the area used that system.
>>>  
>>> Alan Taylor
>>> 
>>>> On 18 Jul 2021, at 04:24, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> ?
>>>> Pipe bending can be made a lot easier if you anneal the pipe first. I've not done any pipe bending recently so I'd better not try to advise on this. But there are interesting discussions about this and other plumbing techniques on various forums. For example:
>>>>  
>>>> https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1249297-Can-I-anneal-copper-pipe-with-a-propane-torch
>>>>  
>>>> There are also some interesting discussions below demonstrations on YouTube. For example:
>>>>  
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL-rheXbVa4
>>>>  
>>>> KW
>>>>  
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Jul 19 04:43:00 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:43:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Frank Smith
In-Reply-To: <093CD217-394B-4122-BA4D-D0A118CFD0B8@btinternet.com>
References: <093CD217-394B-4122-BA4D-D0A118CFD0B8@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <60f54924.1c69fb81.b1ed4.53ab@mx.google.com>

I must say that I do not recognise your pic of Frank as being the chap I knew on TO 13, but there are a few decades of years that have flowed under the bridge!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Barry Bonner via Tech1
Sent: 19 July 2021 10:06
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Cc: TechOps Announce
Subject: [Tech1] Frank Smith

Hi everybody,
		I?m sending this again ?cos I got no reaction from anybody and it didn?t come back to me from either address! Maybe it never went.

I?ve been asked by Nigel Phillips if anybody remembers the time that Frank was on attachment to Tech Ops. I think it was in the mid to late eighties.

Frank was a frequent visitor to our lunches in various Buckinghamshire pubs following the Thursday BBC Network engineers (and the odd Tech Ops) walking group's outings.

Herewith a picture of Frank enjoying his lunch! (Tony Richey & Dave Lawton in the background)

	Barry.




Barry.





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From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Jul 19 04:46:51 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:46:51 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Central heating
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981A42F3B0604676E2E5582A7E09@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <DB5F068BAF5947D4B30C805330226ECD@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<F0EDB541-1CA7-4964-A378-D9FDF6E30D2F@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<52398d67-440e-09f9-4c02-a201eb43a2df@btinternet.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981A42F3B0604676E2E5582A7E09@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <594e6a568bdavesound@btinternet.com>

In article
<PAXP191MB1981A42F3B0604676E2E5582A7E09 at PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
   Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I think Larry Goodson and Dave Lock did central heating as a sideline.

Yes - Larry did all the rad sizings for me when I bought this house. They
were fine with the original boiler, but some undersized when I changed to
a condensing one - which runs at a lower water temperature.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Jul 19 04:53:28 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:53:28 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Central heating part 2
In-Reply-To: <34bed8d3-c120-c95c-7924-43c7fa7c8cdc@btinternet.com>
References: <34bed8d3-c120-c95c-7924-43c7fa7c8cdc@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <60f54b97.1c69fb81.92e24.4eba@mx.google.com>

Reading the tales of plumbing, I cannot help but think that BBC salaries were so miserable that one turned to carrying out works themselves rather than paying to bring in the professional craftspeople!
I guess that at the time, in the ?60?s, I lived at home, so Dad was the worker ? he was a Thorneycroft trained engineer, and an expert carpenter and motor mechanic! I learned much from him.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: dave.mdv via Tech1
Sent: 18 July 2021 18:22
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Central heating part 2

Of course you can't use conventional radiator valves with skirting 
heaters so I used 26 in-line ball valves, however, after a few years I 
found that when you tried to adjust them they leaked! This was because 
the O-rings had hardened and crumbled! Luckily, I found a supplier in 
Teddington who did O-rings and when I was ordering enough to replace 
them all I had a brain wave and asked if they did high-temperature 
versions! They did! So I replaced all of the O-rings in all of my 26 
valves a couple of inches off the floor! What a lovely job! I would hate 
to have to do it again at my advanced age! Cheers, Dave





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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Jul 19 05:56:56 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 11:56:56 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <DB9PR08MB704939F6357731171F6AD4EED0109@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <60f34b50.1c69fb81.7603c.1158@mx.google.com>,
	<7A24B436-8ED2-456C-99B7-5A4C5E473E67@me.com>
	<DB9PR08MB704939F6357731171F6AD4EED0109@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <60f55a77.1c69fb81.20d23.3d19@mx.google.com>

I don?t think your comparison is valid, Sara!
The AA/RAC is a subscription service if motorists need attendance when they break down.
If one is a yachtsman, I don?t think they subscribe to the RNLI in case they might need rescuing.
The fact that the crews are unpaid volunteers, who put their own lives at risk, speaks wonders for the degree that they selflessly offer help in emergency.
Do watch some of the ?Saving Lives at Sea? programmes.

Alastair ? the crew would not make political judgements when rescuing ? their priority is saving human lives ? but they might have immigration authorities alongside the ambulances at the quayside? Why not write  to them to discover what their policy would be?

Steve ? I?ve never been tempted to investigate income of RNLI.
They are always asking for donations. It must soak up an awful lot of dosh to maintain the lifeboat stations, the boats and equipment. If you happen to be someone who likes ?messing about in boats? or sea bathing/paddleboarding etc and got into difficulties, wouldn?t you welcome the sight of the blue and orange craft speeding to your rescue?
Don?t knock them!

I?ll end a further e-mail with a virtual tour of the Tamar Class boat.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Sara Newman
Sent: 17 July 2021 23:01
To: Alasdair Lawrance
Cc: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Tech1] RNLI

Hi I am maybe of a minority but the RNIL are just like r the RAC-AA ? Of the sea So since we have people with ?1bn excess why am I paying their rescue insurance services? 

Sent from my iPhone


On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:43, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
? 
Pat et al - 

The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's latest immigration ?crackdown bill goes through Parliament.

It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who are in need of assistance.
Alasdair Lawrance 

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.




On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
? 
I hope this does not infringe the rules of posting, Bernie, but I would like to make a plea for people with any spare cash to consider supporting the RNLI.
I have several friends and colleagues who like ?messing about in boats? and seeing the rescues depicted in ?Saving Lives at Sea?, watching the unpaid volunteer crews who risk their own lives answering a shout, makes it very essential to donate as much as possible.
The largest lifeboat is the Tamar class and costs? ?2.6 million ? a video is available from the website.
https://rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/our-lifeboat-fleet
?
Supporting can be via direct donations, or by buying the raffle tickets, or purchasing from the on-line shop.
Pat
?
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
?



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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Jul 19 06:04:35 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 12:04:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] FW: watch how you saved an ill father at sea
In-Reply-To: <1840469916.551973.1625724281477@webappxl2.server.actito.com>
References: <1840469916.551973.1625724281477@webappxl2.server.actito.com>
Message-ID: <60f55c42.1c69fb81.693e0.ba02@mx.google.com>

Here?s the RNLI message with the virtual tour of the Tamar Class lifeboat ( works like Google Street Map)
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: RNLI Life
Sent: 08 July 2021 07:04
Subject: Patrick, watch how you saved an ill father at sea



Plus, climb aboard the lifeboat that launched to his rescue 
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? 

?





DONATE 




?

?


?The RNLI?s care goes beyond the actual rescue? 
Hello Patrick,
With summer in full swing, your RNLI lifesavers are extremely busy, launching to protect more people by the water. People just like Morgan and her Dad, Patrick ? who sent out a Mayday call and were rescued by Porthdinllaen RNLI on their sailing trip, as Patrick suffered a stroke.

See for yourself how support like yours kept this father and daughter together. And afterwards, climb aboard the lifeboat class that brought them, and their rescuers, back to safety.

Your lifesavers will do anything to keep you, your family and friends safe this season ? but by remembering these three simple things, you can be your own lifesaver, too: 
? Choose a lifeguarded beach and swim between the red and yellow flags.
? If you're in trouble in the water, float to live ? lean back and use your arms and legs to help you float.
? In an emergency, call 999 or 112 and ask for the coastguard.
We hope you enjoy your latest RNLI Life email. Stay safe and have a wonderful weekend. 
WATCH THE RESCUE VIDEO 




?

?


Step aboard the Tamar class 
Moved by the family rescue story above? Take a virtual tour of the Tamar ? the kind of lifeboat that helped bring everyone to safety that day. Get up close to everything from the navigation to the radio communications, discover what it?s like to be at the wheel, and explore what it?s like below deck in the survivors? area. 
EXPLORE THE LIFEBOAT 




?

?


Get Swim Safe this summer 
Swim Safe is back! A free programme created by Swim England and the RNLI, that teaches children ages 7?14 vital water safety skills through practical sessions.

No matter what your plans are this summer, Swim Safe can educate your family with invaluable life skills that teach kids how to stay safe around open water and what to do if they, or someone else, gets into difficulty. Swim Safe is running in over 20 locations, from Edinburgh to Peel and Porthcawl to Bude. But be quick ? once spaces are gone, they?re gone! 
BOOK A FREE PLACE 




?

?



?

?

Prefer to chat? Just give us a call 
Our Supporter Experience Team are here to help. Please call us on 0300 300 9990 (UK) or 1800 991802 (Ireland). We're open Monday to Friday from 8am?6pm (closed on bank holidays). 


?

?









If you no longer wish to receive any RNLI emails, click?here?to?unsubscribe. 

The RNLI is the charity that saves lives at sea
The Royal National Lifeboat Institution, a charity registered in England and Wales (209603), Scotland (SC037736), the Republic of Ireland (CHY 2678 and 20003326), the Bailiwick of Jersey (14), the Isle of Man (1308 and 006329F), the Bailiwick of Guernsey and Alderney, of West Quay Road, Poole, Dorset, BH15 1HZ. Clayton Engineering Limited (Registered No. 01274923). R.N.L.I. (Sales) Limited (registration number 2202240) also trading as RNLI Shop. RNLI College Limited (registration number 7705470). All companies are registered in England and Wales with registered offices at West Quay Road, Poole, Dorset BH15 1HZ.
Images and copyright ? RNLI 2021.


Can?t see the images? View in browser. 







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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Mon Jul 19 06:19:52 2021
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 12:19:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <594de7e504davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <594de7e504davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <9209D1B6-093C-4A22-B7EE-5FEC921C2E49@zero51.force9.co.uk>

Iirc a potential issue with copper for fuel and brake work is work hardening with movement (as discussed with bending) and thus potential fatigue cracking. I don?t think it?s inevitable, lots of copper on vintage cars in fuel lines after all, but something to bear in mind if there is any flexing on the route. Kunifer/Cunifer is better in that respect but as always there is rubbish tubing available (too thin, wrong mix, whatever)   caveat emptor, 

Peter Fox

On 18 Jul 2021, at 11:02, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?In article <04dd0341-7db8-7fab-388f-c1797deb34d8 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
  Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> That's Kunifer pipe? Or pure copper?

I normally use Kunifer and indeed have a roll here. I'd previously
replaced the one which runs between the rear brakes - about a year ago.
But that is very easy to get at.

Automec supply a complete kit of pipes for a reasonable price, so decided
to go down that route. And they give the choice of copper or Kunifer, but
do mention that copper is easier to bend, so went with that given how
awkward some of the runs are to replace. I did pre-bend them using the old
as a template, but the most difficult will have to be further bent and
them straightened to install. 

I've certainly read that Kunifer is better, but reckon the copper ones
will see me out anyway. ;-)

-- 
   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From geoffletch at gmail.com  Mon Jul 19 06:58:59 2021
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 12:58:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <60f55a77.1c69fb81.20d23.3d19@mx.google.com>
References: <60f34b50.1c69fb81.7603c.1158@mx.google.com>
	<7A24B436-8ED2-456C-99B7-5A4C5E473E67@me.com>
	<DB9PR08MB704939F6357731171F6AD4EED0109@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
	<60f55a77.1c69fb81.20d23.3d19@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB8kfTosHJFV4p5pWpc9SDnLDq0Pq2u460zM7iGzFwSatQ@mail.gmail.com>

Here in North Norfolk anyone who knocks the RNLI and, even worse, the
volunteer crews is liable to get very short shrift and rightly so. Salt of
the earth those guys and girls. They go out in all weathers and assist
anybody who needs it regardless! In some of our coastal pubs a thick ear
might even result, especially if standing next to somebody who has lost a
family member on a lifeboat rescue mission.
Geoff F

On Mon, 19 Jul 2021 at 11:57, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> I don?t think your comparison is valid, Sara!
>
> The AA/RAC is a subscription service if motorists need attendance when
> they break down.
>
> If one is a yachtsman, I don?t think they subscribe to the RNLI in case
> they might need rescuing.
>
> The fact that the crews are unpaid volunteers, who put their own lives at
> risk, speaks wonders for the degree that they selflessly offer help in
> emergency.
>
> Do watch some of the ?Saving Lives at Sea? programmes.
>
>
>
> Alastair ? the crew would not make political judgements when rescuing ?
> their priority is saving human lives ? but they might have immigration
> authorities alongside the ambulances at the quayside? Why not write  to
> them to discover what their policy would be?
>
>
>
> Steve ? I?ve never been tempted to investigate income of RNLI.
>
> They are always asking for donations. It must soak up an awful lot of dosh
> to maintain the lifeboat stations, the boats and equipment. If you happen
> to be someone who likes ?messing about in boats? or sea
> bathing/paddleboarding etc and got into difficulties, wouldn?t you welcome
> the sight of the blue and orange craft speeding to your rescue?
>
> Don?t knock them!
>
>
>
> I?ll end a further e-mail with a virtual tour of the Tamar Class boat.
>
> Pat
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Sara Newman <saranewman at hotmail.com>
> *Sent: *17 July 2021 23:01
> *To: *Alasdair Lawrance <alawrance1 at me.com>
> *Cc: *patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject: *Tech1] RNLI
>
>
>
> Hi I am maybe of a minority but the RNIL are just like r the RAC-AA   Of
> the sea So since we have people with ?1bn excess why am I paying their
> rescue insurance services
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:43, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> Pat et al -
>
>
>
> The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's
> latest immigration  crackdown bill goes through Parliament.
>
>
>
> It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could
> be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who
> are in need of assistance.
>
> Alasdair Lawrance
>
>
>
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> I hope this does not infringe the rules of posting, Bernie, but I would
> like to make a plea for people with any spare cash to consider supporting
> the RNLI.
>
> I have several friends and colleagues who like ?messing about in boats?
> and seeing the rescues depicted in ?Saving Lives at Sea?, watching the
> unpaid volunteer crews who risk their own lives answering a shout, makes it
> very essential to donate as much as possible.
>
> The largest lifeboat is the Tamar class and costs  ?2.6 million ? a video
> is available from the website.
>
> https://rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/our-lifeboat-fleet
> <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frnli.org%2Fwhat-we-do%2Flifeboats-and-stations%2Four-lifeboat-fleet&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ce6148827759341e55cdf08d9496be4de%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637621550017850582%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=LLTq6e%2FhMHe5YKQ8xhUt%2FepEOZKYD5tcxIzPHKMcjKI%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> Supporting can be via direct donations, or by buying the raffle tickets,
> or purchasing from the on-line shop.
>
> Pat
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail
> <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ce6148827759341e55cdf08d9496be4de%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637621550017860539%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=gSYGUzVVvCbtX7pL9sq%2Bjn33MptUKxyuORsBBKu0etQ%3D&reserved=0>
> for Windows 10
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: Avast logo]
> <https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.avast.com%2Fantivirus&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ce6148827759341e55cdf08d9496be4de%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637621550017860539%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=cMoP4q1O4db6lFq0%2BjhPT8cNtioqqIfENb%2FbbREr%2F4Y%3D&reserved=0>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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> --
> Tech1 mailing list
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Jul 19 07:59:08 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 13:59:08 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <9209D1B6-093C-4A22-B7EE-5FEC921C2E49@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <594de7e504davesound@btinternet.com>
	<9209D1B6-093C-4A22-B7EE-5FEC921C2E49@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <594e7bf0c4davesound@btinternet.com>

In article <9209D1B6-093C-4A22-B7EE-5FEC921C2E49 at zero51.force9.co.uk>,
   Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Iirc a potential issue with copper for fuel and brake work is work
> hardening with movement (as discussed with bending) and thus potential
> fatigue cracking. I don?t think it?s inevitable, lots of copper on
> vintage cars in fuel lines after all, but something to bear in mind if
> there is any flexing on the route. Kunifer/Cunifer is better in that
> respect but as always there is rubbish tubing available (too thin, wrong
> mix, whatever)   caveat emptor, 

Yes - I've read this. But I'd guess if a real problem in practice wouldn't
be MOT approved? Or indeed on sale by so many?

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Jul 19 10:44:10 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 16:44:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <594e7bf0c4davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <594e7bf0c4davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <02EE882E-4268-4354-A94A-FCF39528BE95@me.com>

Roughly speaking, if a car is pre 1960, it might be exempt from an MOT, so the type of copper tubing used for brakes need not be an issue.

I didn?t realise this until I was chatting to an elderly lady called Daisy, who lives in a nearby village.  She drives a pre-war Austin Ruby. She bought it in the early 1950s and has used it as her everyday transport ever since. It?s been driven on many long distance charity events, such as Lands End to John O? Groats, or to places like Monaco.  She also comes from a motor racing background and delights in telling how she used to drive it very enthusiastically in her younger days.

The car itself is in shocking condition.  Bits are held together with gaffer tape, Meccano brackets hold parts in place, loads of parts are mis-matched or missing and the passenger seat has been removed so that she can carry cages of hens.  However, it runs well and the brakes seem to work as well as the brakes would be expected to work on a car from the 1920s.

I asked her how on earth it got through the MOT and she laughed, saying that it doesn?t need one. She is frequently approached by people offering significant sums to buy it for restoration, but always politely declines. As she says, this car is nearly 100 years old, where could I buy another car which would last me so long?

Alan Taylor



> On 19 Jul 2021, at 14:09, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?In article <9209D1B6-093C-4A22-B7EE-5FEC921C2E49 at zero51.force9.co.uk>,
>   Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Iirc a potential issue with copper for fuel and brake work is work
>> hardening with movement (as discussed with bending) and thus potential
>> fatigue cracking. I don?t think it?s inevitable, lots of copper on
>> vintage cars in fuel lines after all, but something to bear in mind if
>> there is any flexing on the route. Kunifer/Cunifer is better in that
>> respect but as always there is rubbish tubing available (too thin, wrong
>> mix, whatever)   caveat emptor, 
> 
> Yes - I've read this. But I'd guess if a real problem in practice wouldn't
> be MOT approved? Or indeed on sale by so many?
> 
> -- 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Tue Jul 20 01:27:38 2021
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 07:27:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <594e7bf0c4davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <594e7bf0c4davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <E4D33BFD-575B-43C3-9A13-95E29DE246BB@zero51.force9.co.uk>

I havent found any specific ruling about copper although its allegedly illegal in Australia. (some one?s opinion)
This 
https://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake-tube/hydraulic_brake_tube.html

was an interesting piece on brake line testing, although dated, and only significant in that pure copper was not included in the tests. 
Daisy?s A7 brakes are cable operated unless converted to hydraulics. A7 brakes rarely fail, they are just terrifying. On the plus side the handbrake operates the same cables so can offer some useful extra leverage in extremis (eg every time the car in front of you decides to slow down) Leaving a suitable gap invites another car to drop into the space. You certainly learn anticipation.

Peter Fox

On 19 Jul 2021, at 14:09, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?In article <9209D1B6-093C-4A22-B7EE-5FEC921C2E49 at zero51.force9.co.uk>,
  Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Iirc a potential issue with copper for fuel and brake work is work
> hardening with movement (as discussed with bending) and thus potential
> fatigue cracking. I don?t think it?s inevitable, lots of copper on
> vintage cars in fuel lines after all, but something to bear in mind if
> there is any flexing on the route. Kunifer/Cunifer is better in that
> respect but as always there is rubbish tubing available (too thin, wrong
> mix, whatever)   caveat emptor, 

Yes - I've read this. But I'd guess if a real problem in practice wouldn't
be MOT approved? Or indeed on sale by so many?

-- 
   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Tue Jul 20 03:52:02 2021
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 09:52:02 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <60f55a77.1c69fb81.20d23.3d19@mx.google.com>
References: <60f55a77.1c69fb81.20d23.3d19@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5453C1F5-966B-4136-B102-E0BCA353A26C@btinternet.com>


I didn?t ?Knock them? as you put it - I agree with you they do a great job saving lives: I was pointing out that key RNLI volunteers are unpaid for putting their lives at risk whilst this charity has an annual income of nearly ?200 million!  I could have also mentioned that the RNLI has a Chief Executive with a ?160 K salary ??but last year he very kindly offered to give a 50% pay cut until the Corona crisis has passed - although I can?t verify whether it was merely nothing more than just an ?offer? or whether he?s actually received a pay cut - nevertheless if my maths are correct he should hopefully be able to survive on ?80k out of donated money.
I wonder if he will donate anything himself?

I?m a bit surprised that you?re asking other people to donate money to a charity without you yourself having any understanding of the RNLI?s finances, as you state that you?ve ?never been tempted to investigate income of RNLI? which is a pity as you could have informed us they have a surplus of many millions left in the kitty out of their total income of nearly ?200 million for the year 2020 alone - they already have plenty of funds to keep them well afloat - but the volunteers risking their own lives remain unpaid - they see none of the income!

Perhaps others would prefer to have a better insight so as they can have a more informed decision as to whether they choose to donate to any charity when somebody makes a random plea on their behalf?

The RNLI have come under fire recently for axing 100 UK jobs whilst spending millions of pounds on projects in other countries including of all things buying Burkinis for protecting the modesty of Muslim women in Africa - all out of donations!

As I said previously, there may be something not satisfactory going on when it comes to others spending other people?s money.

We should all ask ourselves: Is a Charity as charitable as it would like you to think or can you really trust the Trust and how it spends your dosh ?

Steve
PS.   Lend us a Tenner will you !




> On 19 Jul 2021, at 11:57, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I don?t think your comparison is valid, Sara!
> The AA/RAC is a subscription service if motorists need attendance when they break down.
> If one is a yachtsman, I don?t think they subscribe to the RNLI in case they might need rescuing.
> The fact that the crews are unpaid volunteers, who put their own lives at risk, speaks wonders for the degree that they selflessly offer help in emergency.
> Do watch some of the ?Saving Lives at Sea? programmes.
>  
> Alastair ? the crew would not make political judgements when rescuing ? their priority is saving human lives ? but they might have immigration authorities alongside the ambulances at the quayside? Why not write  to them to discover what their policy would be?
>  
> Steve ? I?ve never been tempted to investigate income of RNLI.
> They are always asking for donations. It must soak up an awful lot of dosh to maintain the lifeboat stations, the boats and equipment. If you happen to be someone who likes ?messing about in boats? or sea bathing/paddleboarding etc and got into difficulties, wouldn?t you welcome the sight of the blue and orange craft speeding to your rescue?
> Don?t knock them!
>  
> I?ll end a further e-mail with a virtual tour of the Tamar Class boat.
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Sara Newman
> Sent: 17 July 2021 23:01
> To: Alasdair Lawrance
> Cc: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Tech1] RNLI
>  
> Hi I am maybe of a minority but the RNIL are just like r the RAC-AA   Of the sea So since we have people with ?1bn excess why am I paying their rescue insurance services 
>  
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:43, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Pat et al -
>  
> The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's latest immigration  crackdown bill goes through Parliament.
>  
> It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who are in need of assistance.
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
>  
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>  
>  
> 
> 
> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I hope this does not infringe the rules of posting, Bernie, but I would like to make a plea for people with any spare cash to consider supporting the RNLI.
> I have several friends and colleagues who like ?messing about in boats? and seeing the rescues depicted in ?Saving Lives at Sea?, watching the unpaid volunteer crews who risk their own lives answering a shout, makes it very essential to donate as much as possible.
> The largest lifeboat is the Tamar class and costs  ?2.6 million ? a video is available from the website.
> https://rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/our-lifeboat-fleet
>  
> Supporting can be via direct donations, or by buying the raffle tickets, or purchasing from the on-line shop.
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
>  
> 
> <68F694EB4DC0465EA49E570668FAB35B.png>
> 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
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> -- 
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> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>  
> <68F694EB4DC0465EA49E570668FAB35B.png>
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Tue Jul 20 05:04:30 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 11:04:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <02EE882E-4268-4354-A94A-FCF39528BE95@me.com>
References: <594e7bf0c4davesound@btinternet.com>
	<02EE882E-4268-4354-A94A-FCF39528BE95@me.com>
Message-ID: <594eefc988davesound@btinternet.com>

Automec, who supplied the copper brake pipe, supply replacements for most
cars. And if it wasn't MOT approved would do well to say so. As they ask
for car details before supplying the parts.

I'm against having any car MOT exempt. As that is a once a year safety
check. Of course you would make allowances for some things in older cars -
like say emissions checks. But a dangerous, say, tyre, on a 50s Jaguar,
could cause as big a crash as on a new car.  



In article <02EE882E-4268-4354-A94A-FCF39528BE95 at me.com>,
   Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Roughly speaking, if a car is pre 1960, it might be exempt from an MOT, so the type of copper tubing used for brakes need not be an issue.

> I didn?t realise this until I was chatting to an elderly lady called Daisy, who lives in a nearby village.  She drives a pre-war Austin Ruby. She bought it in the early 1950s and has used it as her everyday transport ever since. It?s been driven on many long distance charity events, such as Lands End to John O? Groats, or to places like Monaco.  She also comes from a motor racing background and delights in telling how she used to drive it very enthusiastically in her younger days.

> The car itself is in shocking condition.  Bits are held together with gaffer tape, Meccano brackets hold parts in place, loads of parts are mis-matched or missing and the passenger seat has been removed so that she can carry cages of hens.  However, it runs well and the brakes seem to work as well as the brakes would be expected to work on a car from the 1920s.

> I asked her how on earth it got through the MOT and she laughed, saying that it doesn?t need one. She is frequently approached by people offering significant sums to buy it for restoration, but always politely declines. As she says, this car is nearly 100 years old, where could I buy another car which would last me so long?

> Alan Taylor



> > On 19 Jul 2021, at 14:09, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> > #In article <9209D1B6-093C-4A22-B7EE-5FEC921C2E49 at zero51.force9.co.uk>,
> >   Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Iirc a potential issue with copper for fuel and brake work is work
> >> hardening with movement (as discussed with bending) and thus potential
> >> fatigue cracking. I don?t think it?s inevitable, lots of copper on
> >> vintage cars in fuel lines after all, but something to bear in mind if
> >> there is any flexing on the route. Kunifer/Cunifer is better in that
> >> respect but as always there is rubbish tubing available (too thin, wrong
> >> mix, whatever)   caveat emptor, 
> > 
> > Yes - I've read this. But I'd guess if a real problem in practice wouldn't
> > be MOT approved? Or indeed on sale by so many?
> > 
> > -- 
> >    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Tech1 mailing list
> > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

> -- 
> Tech1 mail

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Tue Jul 20 05:32:30 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 11:32:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <594eefc988davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <594e7bf0c4davesound@btinternet.com>
	<02EE882E-4268-4354-A94A-FCF39528BE95@me.com>
	<594eefc988davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <451ee839-a9ce-6559-9a16-0d8f70cf1aa3@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Automec only supply the copper pipe for UK vehicles. Left hand drive 
vehicles can only have the copper/nickel stuff because Germany doesn't 
allow pure copper (along with a good many other countries).

There's a very good comparison article on the pipes here 
https://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake-tube/brake.html

One can see why most people moved away from copper...

Chris Woolf

On 20/07/2021 11:04, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> Automec, who supplied the copper brake pipe, supply replacements for most
> cars. And if it wasn't MOT approved would do well to say so. As they ask
> for car details before supplying the parts.
>
> I'm against having any car MOT exempt. As that is a once a year safety
> check. Of course you would make allowances for some things in older cars -
> like say emissions checks. But a dangerous, say, tyre, on a 50s Jaguar,
> could cause as big a crash as on a new car.
>
>
>
> In article <02EE882E-4268-4354-A94A-FCF39528BE95 at me.com>,
>     Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roughly speaking, if a car is pre 1960, it might be exempt from an MOT, so the type of copper tubing used for brakes need not be an issue.
>> I didn?t realise this until I was chatting to an elderly lady called Daisy, who lives in a nearby village.  She drives a pre-war Austin Ruby. She bought it in the early 1950s and has used it as her everyday transport ever since. It?s been driven on many long distance charity events, such as Lands End to John O? Groats, or to places like Monaco.  She also comes from a motor racing background and delights in telling how she used to drive it very enthusiastically in her younger days.
>> The car itself is in shocking condition.  Bits are held together with gaffer tape, Meccano brackets hold parts in place, loads of parts are mis-matched or missing and the passenger seat has been removed so that she can carry cages of hens.  However, it runs well and the brakes seem to work as well as the brakes would be expected to work on a car from the 1920s.
>> I asked her how on earth it got through the MOT and she laughed, saying that it doesn?t need one. She is frequently approached by people offering significant sums to buy it for restoration, but always politely declines. As she says, this car is nearly 100 years old, where could I buy another car which would last me so long?
>> Alan Taylor
>
>
>>> On 19 Jul 2021, at 14:09, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> #In article <9209D1B6-093C-4A22-B7EE-5FEC921C2E49 at zero51.force9.co.uk>,
>>>    Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Iirc a potential issue with copper for fuel and brake work is work
>>>> hardening with movement (as discussed with bending) and thus potential
>>>> fatigue cracking. I don?t think it?s inevitable, lots of copper on
>>>> vintage cars in fuel lines after all, but something to bear in mind if
>>>> there is any flexing on the route. Kunifer/Cunifer is better in that
>>>> respect but as always there is rubbish tubing available (too thin, wrong
>>>> mix, whatever)   caveat emptor,
>>> Yes - I've read this. But I'd guess if a real problem in practice wouldn't
>>> be MOT approved? Or indeed on sale by so many?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mail

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Jul 20 05:36:12 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 11:36:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <594eefc988davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <594eefc988davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3270E9BF-6C98-4428-9DAB-6C3E4CDC149E@me.com>

I assume that the reason car built pre 1960 are exempt is that new legislation only applies from the date it was introduced. 

That?s why really old cars don?t need to have brake lights or indicators and moderately old cars don?t have seatbelts. 

However I do agree that there should be some sort of inspection to ensure a certain degree of road worthiness.  I?m told by another veteran car user that his insurance states that the car must be in roadworthy condition, even though it doesn?t have an mot. 

By the way, Daisy herself is one of that dwindling bunch of people who hold a licence but have never needed to undergo a driving test.  

Alan Taylor


> On 20 Jul 2021, at 11:09, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Automec, who supplied the copper brake pipe, supply replacements for most
> cars. And if it wasn't MOT approved would do well to say so. As they ask
> for car details before supplying the parts.
> 
> I'm against having any car MOT exempt. As that is a once a year safety
> check. Of course you would make allowances for some things in older cars -
> like say emissions checks. But a dangerous, say, tyre, on a 50s Jaguar,
> could cause as big a crash as on a new car.  
> 
> 
> 
> In article <02EE882E-4268-4354-A94A-FCF39528BE95 at me.com>,
>   Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roughly speaking, if a car is pre 1960, it might be exempt from an MOT, so the type of copper tubing used for brakes need not be an issue.
> 
>> I didn?t realise this until I was chatting to an elderly lady called Daisy, who lives in a nearby village.  She drives a pre-war Austin Ruby. She bought it in the early 1950s and has used it as her everyday transport ever since. It?s been driven on many long distance charity events, such as Lands End to John O? Groats, or to places like Monaco.  She also comes from a motor racing background and delights in telling how she used to drive it very enthusiastically in her younger days.
> 
>> The car itself is in shocking condition.  Bits are held together with gaffer tape, Meccano brackets hold parts in place, loads of parts are mis-matched or missing and the passenger seat has been removed so that she can carry cages of hens.  However, it runs well and the brakes seem to work as well as the brakes would be expected to work on a car from the 1920s.
> 
>> I asked her how on earth it got through the MOT and she laughed, saying that it doesn?t need one. She is frequently approached by people offering significant sums to buy it for restoration, but always politely declines. As she says, this car is nearly 100 years old, where could I buy another car which would last me so long?
> 
>> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
> 
>>>> On 19 Jul 2021, at 14:09, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> #In article <9209D1B6-093C-4A22-B7EE-5FEC921C2E49 at zero51.force9.co.uk>,
>>>  Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Iirc a potential issue with copper for fuel and brake work is work
>>>> hardening with movement (as discussed with bending) and thus potential
>>>> fatigue cracking. I don?t think it?s inevitable, lots of copper on
>>>> vintage cars in fuel lines after all, but something to bear in mind if
>>>> there is any flexing on the route. Kunifer/Cunifer is better in that
>>>> respect but as always there is rubbish tubing available (too thin, wrong
>>>> mix, whatever)   caveat emptor, 
>>> 
>>> Yes - I've read this. But I'd guess if a real problem in practice wouldn't
>>> be MOT approved? Or indeed on sale by so many?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>>   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mail
> 
> -- 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Jul 20 06:19:22 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 12:19:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <5453C1F5-966B-4136-B102-E0BCA353A26C@btinternet.com>
References: <60f55a77.1c69fb81.20d23.3d19@mx.google.com>
	<5453C1F5-966B-4136-B102-E0BCA353A26C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <62A8451E-240E-40D4-9102-B50B0049A255@icloud.com>

As ever the story reported in the UK press is not what is actually happening.  The ?burkinis issue? is actually about teaching people in these countries to swim, drowning being the third most common cause of accidntal death worldwide. As in many other fields, encouraging the women in these communities to swim ensures that the skills are more likely to get passed on to their children.
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 20 Jul 2021, at 09:52, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> I didn?t ?Knock them? as you put it - I agree with you they do a great job saving lives: I was pointing out that key RNLI volunteers are unpaid for putting their lives at risk whilst this charity has an annual income of nearly ?200 million!  I could have also mentioned that the RNLI has a Chief Executive with a ?160 K salary ??but last year he very kindly offered to give a 50% pay cut until the Corona crisis has passed - although I can?t verify whether it was merely nothing more than just an ?offer? or whether he?s actually received a pay cut - nevertheless if my maths are correct he should hopefully be able to survive on ?80k out of donated money.
> I wonder if he will donate anything himself?
> 
> I?m a bit surprised that you?re asking other people to donate money to a charity without you yourself having any understanding of the RNLI?s finances, as you state that you?ve ?never been tempted to investigate income of RNLI? which is a pity as you could have informed us they have a surplus of many millions left in the kitty out of their total income of nearly ?200 million for the year 2020 alone - they already have plenty of funds to keep them well afloat - but the volunteers risking their own lives remain unpaid - they see none of the income!
> 
> Perhaps others would prefer to have a better insight so as they can have a more informed decision as to whether they choose to donate to any charity when somebody makes a random plea on their behalf?
> 
> The RNLI have come under fire recently for axing 100 UK jobs whilst spending millions of pounds on projects in other countries including of all things buying Burkinis for protecting the modesty of Muslim women in Africa - all out of donations!
> 
> As I said previously, there may be something not satisfactory going on when it comes to others spending other people?s money.
> 
> We should all ask ourselves: Is a Charity as charitable as it would like you to think or can you really trust the Trust and how it spends your dosh ?
> 
> Steve
> PS.   Lend us a Tenner will you !
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 19 Jul 2021, at 11:57, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> I don?t think your comparison is valid, Sara!
>> The AA/RAC is a subscription service if motorists need attendance when they break down.
>> If one is a yachtsman, I don?t think they subscribe to the RNLI in case they might need rescuing.
>> The fact that the crews are unpaid volunteers, who put their own lives at risk, speaks wonders for the degree that they selflessly offer help in emergency.
>> Do watch some of the ?Saving Lives at Sea? programmes.
>>  
>> Alastair ? the crew would not make political judgements when rescuing ? their priority is saving human lives ? but they might have immigration authorities alongside the ambulances at the quayside? Why not write  to them to discover what their policy would be?
>>  
>> Steve ? I?ve never been tempted to investigate income of RNLI.
>> They are always asking for donations. It must soak up an awful lot of dosh to maintain the lifeboat stations, the boats and equipment. If you happen to be someone who likes ?messing about in boats? or sea bathing/paddleboarding etc and got into difficulties, wouldn?t you welcome the sight of the blue and orange craft speeding to your rescue?
>> Don?t knock them!
>>  
>> I?ll end a further e-mail with a virtual tour of the Tamar Class boat.
>> Pat
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: Sara Newman
>> Sent: 17 July 2021 23:01
>> To: Alasdair Lawrance
>> Cc: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Subject: Tech1] RNLI
>>  
>> Hi I am maybe of a minority but the RNIL are just like r the RAC-AA   Of the sea So since we have people with ?1bn excess why am I paying their rescue insurance services  
>>  
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:43, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ? 
>> Pat et al - 
>>  
>> The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's latest immigration  crackdown bill goes through Parliament.
>>  
>> It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who are in need of assistance.
>> 
>> Alasdair Lawrance 
>>  
>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ? 
>> I hope this does not infringe the rules of posting, Bernie, but I would like to make a plea for people with any spare cash to consider supporting the RNLI.
>> I have several friends and colleagues who like ?messing about in boats? and seeing the rescues depicted in ?Saving Lives at Sea?, watching the unpaid volunteer crews who risk their own lives answering a shout, makes it very essential to donate as much as possible.
>> The largest lifeboat is the Tamar class and costs  ?2.6 million ? a video is available from the website.
>> https://rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/our-lifeboat-fleet
>>  
>> Supporting can be via direct donations, or by buying the raffle tickets, or purchasing from the on-line shop.
>> Pat
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> <68F694EB4DC0465EA49E570668FAB35B.png>
>> 
>> 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>  
>> <68F694EB4DC0465EA49E570668FAB35B.png>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Tue Jul 20 07:24:05 2021
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 13:24:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
Message-ID: <49939E8A-D614-44B1-A118-B6EF0B2EFD65@btinternet.com>

Not being pedantic here but since when did the Royal ?National? extend its boundaries to International?

?This underlines my point that the RNLI clearly have plenty of surplus funds available to extend beyond rescuing lives here in the UK if it can help others with projects in other far away countries like teaching people how to swim - even down to buying them Burkinis whilst the frontline volunteers risking their own lives at sea here in the UK are unpaid!

Hmmm 

Steve

> On 20 Jul 2021, at 12:19, Graeme Wall <graeme.wall at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> ?As ever the story reported in the UK press is not what is actually happening.  The ?burkinis issue? is actually about teaching people in these countries to swim, drowning being the third most common cause of accidntal death worldwide. As in many other fields, encouraging the women in these communities to swim ensures that the skills are more likely to get passed on to their children.
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
>> On 20 Jul 2021, at 09:52, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> I didn?t ?Knock them? as you put it - I agree with you they do a great job saving lives: I was pointing out that key RNLI volunteers are unpaid for putting their lives at risk whilst this charity has an annual income of nearly ?200 million!  I could have also mentioned that the RNLI has a Chief Executive with a ?160 K salary ??but last year he very kindly offered to give a 50% pay cut until the Corona crisis has passed - although I can?t verify whether it was merely nothing more than just an ?offer? or whether he?s actually received a pay cut - nevertheless if my maths are correct he should hopefully be able to survive on ?80k out of donated money.
>> I wonder if he will donate anything himself?
>> I?m a bit surprised that you?re asking other people to donate money to a charity without you yourself having any understanding of the RNLI?s finances, as you state that you?ve ?never been tempted to investigate income of RNLI? which is a pity as you could have informed us they have a surplus of many millions left in the kitty out of their total income of nearly ?200 million for the year 2020 alone - they already have plenty of funds to keep them well afloat - but the volunteers risking their own lives remain unpaid - they see none of the income!
>> Perhaps others would prefer to have a better insight so as they can have a more informed decision as to whether they choose to donate to any charity when somebody makes a random plea on their behalf?
>> The RNLI have come under fire recently for axing 100 UK jobs whilst spending millions of pounds on projects in other countries including of all things buying Burkinis for protecting the modesty of Muslim women in Africa - all out of donations!
>> As I said previously, there may be something not satisfactory going on when it comes to others spending other people?s money.
>> We should all ask ourselves: Is a Charity as charitable as it would like you to think or can you really trust the Trust and how it spends your dosh ?
>> Steve
>> PS.   Lend us a Tenner will you !
>>>> On 19 Jul 2021, at 11:57, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?
>>> I don?t think your comparison is valid, Sara!
>>> The AA/RAC is a subscription service if motorists need attendance when they break down.
>>> If one is a yachtsman, I don?t think they subscribe to the RNLI in case they might need rescuing.
>>> The fact that the crews are unpaid volunteers, who put their own lives at risk, speaks wonders for the degree that they selflessly offer help in emergency.
>>> Do watch some of the ?Saving Lives at Sea? programmes.
>>> Alastair ? the crew would not make political judgements when rescuing ? their priority is saving human lives ? but they might have immigration authorities alongside the ambulances at the quayside? Why not write  to them to discover what their policy would be?
>>> Steve ? I?ve never been tempted to investigate income of RNLI.
>>> They are always asking for donations. It must soak up an awful lot of dosh to maintain the lifeboat stations, the boats and equipment. If you happen to be someone who likes ?messing about in boats? or sea bathing/paddleboarding etc and got into difficulties, wouldn?t you welcome the sight of the blue and orange craft speeding to your rescue?
>>> Don?t knock them!
>>> I?ll end a further e-mail with a virtual tour of the Tamar Class boat.
>>> Pat
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>> From: Sara Newman
>>> Sent: 17 July 2021 23:01
>>> To: Alasdair Lawrance
>>> Cc: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Subject: Tech1] RNLI
>>> Hi I am maybe of a minority but the RNIL are just like r the RAC-AA   Of the sea So since we have people with ?1bn excess why am I paying their rescue insurance services  
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:43, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?
>>> Pat et al -
>>> The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's latest immigration  crackdown bill goes through Parliament.
>>> It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who are in need of assistance.
>>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>>>> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?
>>> I hope this does not infringe the rules of posting, Bernie, but I would like to make a plea for people with any spare cash to consider supporting the RNLI.
>>> I have several friends and colleagues who like ?messing about in boats? and seeing the rescues depicted in ?Saving Lives at Sea?, watching the unpaid volunteer crews who risk their own lives answering a shout, makes it very essential to donate as much as possible.
>>> The largest lifeboat is the Tamar class and costs  ?2.6 million ? a video is available from the website.
>>> https://rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/our-lifeboat-fleet
>>> Supporting can be via direct donations, or by buying the raffle tickets, or purchasing from the on-line shop.
>>> Pat
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>> <68F694EB4DC0465EA49E570668FAB35B.png>
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> www.avast.com
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> <68F694EB4DC0465EA49E570668FAB35B.png>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From davidvbrunt at gmail.com  Tue Jul 20 07:30:22 2021
From: davidvbrunt at gmail.com (David Brunt)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 13:30:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <49939E8A-D614-44B1-A118-B6EF0B2EFD65@btinternet.com>
References: <49939E8A-D614-44B1-A118-B6EF0B2EFD65@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <38F7C68CF36747FCB62874E8538FDDB5@0023242e4e14>

I'm not entirely sure what your objection is. Is it because it helps foreign 
people?

Because that reads like a memo from Conservative Central Office.



-----Original Message----- 
From: Steve Edwards via Tech1
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 1:24 PM
To: Graeme Wall
Cc: Tech ops
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI

Not being pedantic here but since when did the Royal ?National? extend its 
boundaries to International?

?This underlines my point that the RNLI clearly have plenty of surplus funds 
available to extend beyond rescuing lives here in the UK if it can help 
others with projects in other far away countries like teaching people how to 
swim - even down to buying them Burkinis whilst the frontline volunteers 
risking their own lives at sea here in the UK are unpaid!

Hmmm

Steve



From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Tue Jul 20 07:57:52 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 13:57:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <38F7C68CF36747FCB62874E8538FDDB5@0023242e4e14>
References: <49939E8A-D614-44B1-A118-B6EF0B2EFD65@btinternet.com>
	<38F7C68CF36747FCB62874E8538FDDB5@0023242e4e14>
Message-ID: <702f3738-9fca-0060-d3f6-c44b15474f63@chriswoolf.co.uk>

When looking at charity accounts you have to be very careful to sort out 
what the funds are for.

In many cases it is necessary to carry a large "surplus" to fund all the 
day to day outgoings. In the RNLI's case these could be the running 
costs of the lifeboats, beach safety etc. These are not expenses that 
can be avoided, or saved on. In most cases charities cannot borrow 
against future donations, so must carry their working capital as "cash", 
unlike most businesses.

I haven't explored the RNLI accounts personally (and see no reason to 
either) but I would be very wary about damning them for being 
excessively wealthy. Or for being so mean and nationalistic that they 
couldn't help a few more people around the world to learn to swim.


Chris Woolf


On 20/07/2021 13:30, David Brunt via Tech1 wrote:
> I'm not entirely sure what your objection is. Is it because it helps 
> foreign people?
>
> Because that reads like a memo from Conservative Central Office.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Steve Edwards via Tech1
> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 1:24 PM
> To: Graeme Wall
> Cc: Tech ops
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
>
> Not being pedantic here but since when did the Royal ?National? extend 
> its boundaries to International?
>
> ?This underlines my point that the RNLI clearly have plenty of surplus 
> funds available to extend beyond rescuing lives here in the UK if it 
> can help others with projects in other far away countries like 
> teaching people how to swim - even down to buying them Burkinis whilst 
> the frontline volunteers risking their own lives at sea here in the UK 
> are unpaid!
>
> Hmmm
>
> Steve
>
>

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From davesound at btinternet.com  Tue Jul 20 08:45:20 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 14:45:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <451ee839-a9ce-6559-9a16-0d8f70cf1aa3@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <594e7bf0c4davesound@btinternet.com>
	<02EE882E-4268-4354-A94A-FCF39528BE95@me.com>
	<594eefc988davesound@btinternet.com>
	<451ee839-a9ce-6559-9a16-0d8f70cf1aa3@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <594f040215davesound@btinternet.com>

In article <451ee839-a9ce-6559-9a16-0d8f70cf1aa3 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
   Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Automec only supply the copper pipe for UK vehicles.

Not so. They offer kunifer at the same price. Although it is actually
cheaper than copper. 

> Left hand drive 
> vehicles can only have the copper/nickel stuff because Germany doesn't 
> allow pure copper (along with a good many other countries).

That would be the same Germany that allowed Bosch to fit emissions test
cheating injection to millions of diesel cars? ;-) 

> There's a very good comparison article on the pipes here 
> https://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake-tube/brake.html

> One can see why most people moved away from copper...

Copper hasn't been fitted by most makers for many a year. The much cheaper
steel being used. And that can rust through within the service life of
many cars. Especially in parts of the country where the roads are heavily
salted in winter. 

The reason steel pipes may not be chosen as replacements is it is not easy
to bend to fit. Which would mean a very large package for a long pre-bent
one, rather than the coil copper comes in, which you bend yourself.  

What that article doesn't say is if a properly fitted (and therefore
supported) copper brake pipe would have a shorter life than OEM steel. But
given it seems to be selling kunifer, no real surprise. 

Thin wall copper tubing is used for the connections to your domestic
boiler (both water and gas). Continually being flexed due to expansion and
contraction. It failing, not exactly common.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Tue Jul 20 09:05:55 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 15:05:55 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <594f040215davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <594e7bf0c4davesound@btinternet.com><02EE882E-4268-4354-A94A-FCF39528BE95@me.com><594eefc988davesound@btinternet.com><451ee839-a9ce-6559-9a16-0d8f70cf1aa3@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<594f040215davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <FDD287DB81CA432BBBC01D1ED9B07108@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

I read Chris' info as indicating that they offered copper for UK vehicles 
but not for German/Continental. I don't think he was implying that Kunifer 
wasn't available for UK cars.

Dave Newbitt.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 2:45 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Repair Shop

In article <451ee839-a9ce-6559-9a16-0d8f70cf1aa3 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
   Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Automec only supply the copper pipe for UK vehicles.

Not so. They offer kunifer at the same price. Although it is actually
cheaper than copper.

> Left hand drive
> vehicles can only have the copper/nickel stuff because Germany doesn't
> allow pure copper (along with a good many other countries).

That would be the same Germany that allowed Bosch to fit emissions test
cheating injection to millions of diesel cars? ;-)

> There's a very good comparison article on the pipes here
> https://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake-tube/brake.html

> One can see why most people moved away from copper...

Copper hasn't been fitted by most makers for many a year. The much cheaper
steel being used. And that can rust through within the service life of
many cars. Especially in parts of the country where the roads are heavily
salted in winter.

The reason steel pipes may not be chosen as replacements is it is not easy
to bend to fit. Which would mean a very large package for a long pre-bent
one, rather than the coil copper comes in, which you bend yourself.

What that article doesn't say is if a properly fitted (and therefore
supported) copper brake pipe would have a shorter life than OEM steel. But
given it seems to be selling kunifer, no real surprise.

Thin wall copper tubing is used for the connections to your domestic
boiler (both water and gas). Continually being flexed due to expansion and
contraction. It failing, not exactly common.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 



From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Tue Jul 20 09:35:12 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 15:35:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <FDD287DB81CA432BBBC01D1ED9B07108@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <594e7bf0c4davesound@btinternet.com>
	<02EE882E-4268-4354-A94A-FCF39528BE95@me.com>
	<594eefc988davesound@btinternet.com>
	<451ee839-a9ce-6559-9a16-0d8f70cf1aa3@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<594f040215davesound@btinternet.com>
	<FDD287DB81CA432BBBC01D1ED9B07108@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <2bfbadab-e5c0-4b33-f8bb-0ef052f89662@chriswoolf.co.uk>

On 20/07/2021 15:05, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
> I read Chris' info as indicating that they offered copper for UK 
> vehicles but not for German/Continental. I don't think he was implying 
> that Kunifer wasn't available for UK cars.
>
> Dave Newbitt.
>
Correct!


Chris W



> -----

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From geoffletch at gmail.com  Tue Jul 20 09:39:26 2021
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 15:39:26 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <2bfbadab-e5c0-4b33-f8bb-0ef052f89662@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <594e7bf0c4davesound@btinternet.com>
	<02EE882E-4268-4354-A94A-FCF39528BE95@me.com>
	<594eefc988davesound@btinternet.com>
	<451ee839-a9ce-6559-9a16-0d8f70cf1aa3@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<594f040215davesound@btinternet.com>
	<FDD287DB81CA432BBBC01D1ED9B07108@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<2bfbadab-e5c0-4b33-f8bb-0ef052f89662@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB_wsi1AXUV3ucQ6WfJ7BryaA6eOCjjy-Fwx6tnbe3e6gw@mail.gmail.com>

Here in North Norfolk a kunifer is a fir tree!
Geoff F

On Tue, 20 Jul 2021 at 15:36, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 20/07/2021 15:05, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
> > I read Chris' info as indicating that they offered copper for UK
> > vehicles but not for German/Continental. I don't think he was implying
> > that Kunifer wasn't available for UK cars.
> >
> > Dave Newbitt.
> >
> Correct!
>
>
> Chris W
>
>
>
> > -----
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 20 09:40:09 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 15:40:09 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <594f040215davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <594e7bf0c4davesound@btinternet.com>
	<02EE882E-4268-4354-A94A-FCF39528BE95@me.com>
	<594eefc988davesound@btinternet.com>
	<451ee839-a9ce-6559-9a16-0d8f70cf1aa3@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<594f040215davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <7e10df7f-5b96-855b-b801-976b046bbbd1@gmail.com>

I put the brake pipes on my Cobra. I measured the lengths and a local 
company made them up with the ends.? How do i tell whether they are 
copper or Cunifer / Kunifer?

B


On 20/07/2021 14:45, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> In article <451ee839-a9ce-6559-9a16-0d8f70cf1aa3 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
>     Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Automec only supply the copper pipe for UK vehicles.
> Not so. They offer kunifer at the same price. Although it is actually
> cheaper than copper.
>
>> Left hand drive
>> vehicles can only have the copper/nickel stuff because Germany doesn't
>> allow pure copper (along with a good many other countries).
> That would be the same Germany that allowed Bosch to fit emissions test
> cheating injection to millions of diesel cars? ;-)
>
>> There's a very good comparison article on the pipes here
>> https://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake-tube/brake.html
>> One can see why most people moved away from copper...
> Copper hasn't been fitted by most makers for many a year. The much cheaper
> steel being used. And that can rust through within the service life of
> many cars. Especially in parts of the country where the roads are heavily
> salted in winter.
>
> The reason steel pipes may not be chosen as replacements is it is not easy
> to bend to fit. Which would mean a very large package for a long pre-bent
> one, rather than the coil copper comes in, which you bend yourself.
>
> What that article doesn't say is if a properly fitted (and therefore
> supported) copper brake pipe would have a shorter life than OEM steel. But
> given it seems to be selling kunifer, no real surprise.
>
> Thin wall copper tubing is used for the connections to your domestic
> boiler (both water and gas). Continually being flexed due to expansion and
> contraction. It failing, not exactly common.
>

-------------- next part --------------
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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Tue Jul 20 10:02:38 2021
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 16:02:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <49939E8A-D614-44B1-A118-B6EF0B2EFD65@btinternet.com>
References: <49939E8A-D614-44B1-A118-B6EF0B2EFD65@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <F75FB8C1-5AFD-45BB-9C8E-F02D0470FFD3@btinternet.com>

You ask Steve; ??.when did the Royal ?National? extend its boundaries to International?? Answer: a long time ago when the RNLI agreed to cover Eire.

Barry. (Governor RNLI)



On 20 Jul 2021, at 13:24, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Not being pedantic here but since when did the Royal ?National? extend its boundaries to International?
> 
> ?This underlines my point that the RNLI clearly have plenty of surplus funds available to extend beyond rescuing lives here in the UK if it can help others with projects in other far away countries like teaching people how to swim - even down to buying them Burkinis whilst the frontline volunteers risking their own lives at sea here in the UK are unpaid!
> 
> Hmmm 
> 
> Steve
> 
>> On 20 Jul 2021, at 12:19, Graeme Wall <graeme.wall at icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?As ever the story reported in the UK press is not what is actually happening.  The ?burkinis issue? is actually about teaching people in these countries to swim, drowning being the third most common cause of accidntal death worldwide. As in many other fields, encouraging the women in these communities to swim ensures that the skills are more likely to get passed on to their children.
>> ? 
>> Graeme Wall
>> 
>> 
>>> On 20 Jul 2021, at 09:52, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I didn?t ?Knock them? as you put it - I agree with you they do a great job saving lives: I was pointing out that key RNLI volunteers are unpaid for putting their lives at risk whilst this charity has an annual income of nearly ?200 million!  I could have also mentioned that the RNLI has a Chief Executive with a ?160 K salary ??but last year he very kindly offered to give a 50% pay cut until the Corona crisis has passed - although I can?t verify whether it was merely nothing more than just an ?offer? or whether he?s actually received a pay cut - nevertheless if my maths are correct he should hopefully be able to survive on ?80k out of donated money.
>>> I wonder if he will donate anything himself?
>>> I?m a bit surprised that you?re asking other people to donate money to a charity without you yourself having any understanding of the RNLI?s finances, as you state that you?ve ?never been tempted to investigate income of RNLI? which is a pity as you could have informed us they have a surplus of many millions left in the kitty out of their total income of nearly ?200 million for the year 2020 alone - they already have plenty of funds to keep them well afloat - but the volunteers risking their own lives remain unpaid - they see none of the income!
>>> Perhaps others would prefer to have a better insight so as they can have a more informed decision as to whether they choose to donate to any charity when somebody makes a random plea on their behalf?
>>> The RNLI have come under fire recently for axing 100 UK jobs whilst spending millions of pounds on projects in other countries including of all things buying Burkinis for protecting the modesty of Muslim women in Africa - all out of donations!
>>> As I said previously, there may be something not satisfactory going on when it comes to others spending other people?s money.
>>> We should all ask ourselves: Is a Charity as charitable as it would like you to think or can you really trust the Trust and how it spends your dosh ?
>>> Steve
>>> PS.   Lend us a Tenner will you !
>>>>> On 19 Jul 2021, at 11:57, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> ?
>>>> I don?t think your comparison is valid, Sara!
>>>> The AA/RAC is a subscription service if motorists need attendance when they break down.
>>>> If one is a yachtsman, I don?t think they subscribe to the RNLI in case they might need rescuing.
>>>> The fact that the crews are unpaid volunteers, who put their own lives at risk, speaks wonders for the degree that they selflessly offer help in emergency.
>>>> Do watch some of the ?Saving Lives at Sea? programmes.
>>>> Alastair ? the crew would not make political judgements when rescuing ? their priority is saving human lives ? but they might have immigration authorities alongside the ambulances at the quayside? Why not write  to them to discover what their policy would be?
>>>> Steve ? I?ve never been tempted to investigate income of RNLI.
>>>> They are always asking for donations. It must soak up an awful lot of dosh to maintain the lifeboat stations, the boats and equipment. If you happen to be someone who likes ?messing about in boats? or sea bathing/paddleboarding etc and got into difficulties, wouldn?t you welcome the sight of the blue and orange craft speeding to your rescue?
>>>> Don?t knock them!
>>>> I?ll end a further e-mail with a virtual tour of the Tamar Class boat.
>>>> Pat
>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>> From: Sara Newman
>>>> Sent: 17 July 2021 23:01
>>>> To: Alasdair Lawrance
>>>> Cc: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> Subject: Tech1] RNLI
>>>> Hi I am maybe of a minority but the RNIL are just like r the RAC-AA   Of the sea So since we have people with ?1bn excess why am I paying their rescue insurance services  
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:43, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> ?
>>>> Pat et al -
>>>> The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's latest immigration  crackdown bill goes through Parliament.
>>>> It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who are in need of assistance.
>>>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>>>>> On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> ?
>>>> I hope this does not infringe the rules of posting, Bernie, but I would like to make a plea for people with any spare cash to consider supporting the RNLI.
>>>> I have several friends and colleagues who like ?messing about in boats? and seeing the rescues depicted in ?Saving Lives at Sea?, watching the unpaid volunteer crews who risk their own lives answering a shout, makes it very essential to donate as much as possible.
>>>> The largest lifeboat is the Tamar class and costs  ?2.6 million ? a video is available from the website.
>>>> https://rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/our-lifeboat-fleet
>>>> Supporting can be via direct donations, or by buying the raffle tickets, or purchasing from the on-line shop.
>>>> Pat
>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>> <68F694EB4DC0465EA49E570668FAB35B.png>
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> www.avast.com
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> <68F694EB4DC0465EA49E570668FAB35B.png>
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
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> Tech1 mailing list
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From waresound at msn.com  Tue Jul 20 12:06:11 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:06:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <F75FB8C1-5AFD-45BB-9C8E-F02D0470FFD3@btinternet.com>
References: <49939E8A-D614-44B1-A118-B6EF0B2EFD65@btinternet.com>,
	<F75FB8C1-5AFD-45BB-9C8E-F02D0470FFD3@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB19813CF81B4364AB13018FB9A7E29@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Presumably, if the RNLI has the boats and the free volunteers, all it?s running costs are in fuel and maintenance, plus of course, as ever, top heavy management and admin costs.
When my Father-in-Law died five years ago, the RNLI had the pick of almost all of the entire contents of his six bedroom house, and it took a big removal van to take it away. Recently, when his sister died they had the pick of the entire contents of her house, plus a nearby two bed bungalow (both awaiting Probate). Figures we?ve received since show that the RNLI did rather well out of it. Sadly, due to circumstances, the Government will make off with just under ?500,000 in death duties on Aunt?s Estate alone, which incidentally, has to be paid in full in advance of the beneficiaries (which incidentally, includes the RNLI) receiving a single penny. Yes, you did read that correctly!
Personally, I have two sons by my first marriage, and two daughters by my second marriage. I know where every penny in my Estate is going.
Just make sure your Wills are bang up to date, folks. Things have changed! If you have surplus ?dosh? and no-one to leave it to, you might as well give it away now.
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 20 Jul 2021, at 17:03, Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? You ask Steve; ??.when did the Royal ?National? extend its boundaries to International?? Answer: a long time ago when the RNLI agreed to cover Eire.

Barry. (Governor RNLI)



On 20 Jul 2021, at 13:24, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

Not being pedantic here but since when did the Royal ?National? extend its boundaries to International?

?This underlines my point that the RNLI clearly have plenty of surplus funds available to extend beyond rescuing lives here in the UK if it can help others with projects in other far away countries like teaching people how to swim - even down to buying them Burkinis whilst the frontline volunteers risking their own lives at sea here in the UK are unpaid!

Hmmm

Steve

On 20 Jul 2021, at 12:19, Graeme Wall <graeme.wall at icloud.com<mailto:graeme.wall at icloud.com>> wrote:

?As ever the story reported in the UK press is not what is actually happening.  The ?burkinis issue? is actually about teaching people in these countries to swim, drowning being the third most common cause of accidntal death worldwide. As in many other fields, encouraging the women in these communities to swim ensures that the skills are more likely to get passed on to their children.
?
Graeme Wall


On 20 Jul 2021, at 09:52, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
I didn?t ?Knock them? as you put it - I agree with you they do a great job saving lives: I was pointing out that key RNLI volunteers are unpaid for putting their lives at risk whilst this charity has an annual income of nearly ?200 million!  I could have also mentioned that the RNLI has a Chief Executive with a ?160 K salary ??but last year he very kindly offered to give a 50% pay cut until the Corona crisis has passed - although I can?t verify whether it was merely nothing more than just an ?offer? or whether he?s actually received a pay cut - nevertheless if my maths are correct he should hopefully be able to survive on ?80k out of donated money.
I wonder if he will donate anything himself?
I?m a bit surprised that you?re asking other people to donate money to a charity without you yourself having any understanding of the RNLI?s finances, as you state that you?ve ?never been tempted to investigate income of RNLI? which is a pity as you could have informed us they have a surplus of many millions left in the kitty out of their total income of nearly ?200 million for the year 2020 alone - they already have plenty of funds to keep them well afloat - but the volunteers risking their own lives remain unpaid - they see none of the income!
Perhaps others would prefer to have a better insight so as they can have a more informed decision as to whether they choose to donate to any charity when somebody makes a random plea on their behalf?
The RNLI have come under fire recently for axing 100 UK jobs whilst spending millions of pounds on projects in other countries including of all things buying Burkinis for protecting the modesty of Muslim women in Africa - all out of donations!
As I said previously, there may be something not satisfactory going on when it comes to others spending other people?s money.
We should all ask ourselves: Is a Charity as charitable as it would like you to think or can you really trust the Trust and how it spends your dosh ?
Steve
PS.   Lend us a Tenner will you !
On 19 Jul 2021, at 11:57, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
?
I don?t think your comparison is valid, Sara!
The AA/RAC is a subscription service if motorists need attendance when they break down.
If one is a yachtsman, I don?t think they subscribe to the RNLI in case they might need rescuing.
The fact that the crews are unpaid volunteers, who put their own lives at risk, speaks wonders for the degree that they selflessly offer help in emergency.
Do watch some of the ?Saving Lives at Sea? programmes.
Alastair ? the crew would not make political judgements when rescuing ? their priority is saving human lives ? but they might have immigration authorities alongside the ambulances at the quayside? Why not write  to them to discover what their policy would be?
Steve ? I?ve never been tempted to investigate income of RNLI.
They are always asking for donations. It must soak up an awful lot of dosh to maintain the lifeboat stations, the boats and equipment. If you happen to be someone who likes ?messing about in boats? or sea bathing/paddleboarding etc and got into difficulties, wouldn?t you welcome the sight of the blue and orange craft speeding to your rescue?
Don?t knock them!
I?ll end a further e-mail with a virtual tour of the Tamar Class boat.
Pat
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Sara Newman
Sent: 17 July 2021 23:01
To: Alasdair Lawrance
Cc: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Tech1] RNLI
Hi I am maybe of a minority but the RNIL are just like r the RAC-AA   Of the sea So since we have people with ?1bn excess why am I paying their rescue insurance services
Sent from my iPhone
On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:43, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
?
Pat et al -
The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's latest immigration  crackdown bill goes through Parliament.
It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who are in need of assistance.
Alasdair Lawrance
Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
?
I hope this does not infringe the rules of posting, Bernie, but I would like to make a plea for people with any spare cash to consider supporting the RNLI.
I have several friends and colleagues who like ?messing about in boats? and seeing the rescues depicted in ?Saving Lives at Sea?, watching the unpaid volunteer crews who risk their own lives answering a shout, makes it very essential to donate as much as possible.
The largest lifeboat is the Tamar class and costs  ?2.6 million ? a video is available from the website.
https://rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/our-lifeboat-fleet
Supporting can be via direct donations, or by buying the raffle tickets, or purchasing from the on-line shop.
Pat
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Wed Jul 21 03:13:24 2021
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 09:13:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] BBC London News escapes again!
Message-ID: <7CC90714150B4FF28C3483001143AA60@Gigabyte>

Does anyone know why BBC London news seems to have fled to Tonbridge Wells again (or somewaher darhn sarf)?
Is it because BH newsroom aircon has failed or just they don?t want to report hardly anything about actual London?
Or perhaps because the HUGE newsroom is almost empty or the background videos of London have failed  - the ones with the moored barges which haven't moved for years (like the inserted clock yesterday on BBC Breakfast and replaced by a digital and an anlage clock propped up on the sofa between presenters (he he). At one stage they said that they were asking which was preferred by the viewers!
At least the weather lady was on BH roof with the view down Regent Street that we remember from sitting in the old canteen in BH Extension.

Mike
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From peter.neill at icloud.com  Wed Jul 21 03:46:23 2021
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 09:46:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] BBC London News escapes again!
In-Reply-To: <7CC90714150B4FF28C3483001143AA60@Gigabyte>
References: <7CC90714150B4FF28C3483001143AA60@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <60026321-859C-45AF-9F68-0C378CDE9760@icloud.com>

Simply staffing difficulties.

I don?t know the specifics re London and South East but I do know that on Friday one of the Cambridge staff tested positive.
Now, the BBC are being super-cautious re social distancing, mask-wearing etc. in offices and galleries and there was a deep clean done on Friday afternoon.
However, virtually all the staff were pinged over the weekend and it was just not possible to mount a programme there on Monday or Tuesday so Norwich did one which covered the whole patch.

BBC Covid rules prohibit staff moving between centres or the employment of casual freelances so there was no other option.

BBC London gallery staff are serviced from Network but the journalists are local so it?s a question of spreading what effort they have very thinly.

Peter Neill






> On 21 Jul 2021, at 09:13, Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know why BBC London news seems to have fled to Tonbridge Wells again (or somewaher darhn sarf)?
> Is it because BH newsroom aircon has failed or just they don?t want to report hardly anything about actual London?
> Or perhaps because the HUGE newsroom is almost empty or the background videos of London have failed  - the ones with the moored barges which haven't moved for years (like the inserted clock yesterday on BBC Breakfast and replaced by a digital and an anlage clock propped up on the sofa between presenters (he he). At one stage they said that they were asking which was preferred by the viewers!
> At least the weather lady was on BH roof with the view down Regent Street that we remember from sitting in the old canteen in BH Extension.
>  
> Mike
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Wed Jul 21 04:29:33 2021
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 10:29:33 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] BBC London News escapes again!
In-Reply-To: <60026321-859C-45AF-9F68-0C378CDE9760@icloud.com>
References: <7CC90714150B4FF28C3483001143AA60@Gigabyte>
	<60026321-859C-45AF-9F68-0C378CDE9760@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <6B5CD43A16C64D9FB042BA5BFB924432@Gigabyte>

Thanks Peter

Insider info is always so good.
Makes sense doesn't it.
I note on Breakfast, when there is a live guest, one of the presenters leaves so that the social distancing can happen on the sofa.

Mike

From: Peter Neill via Tech1 
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2021 9:46 AM
To: Tech Ops List 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC London News escapes again!

Simply staffing difficulties.

I don?t know the specifics re London and South East but I do know that on Friday one of the Cambridge staff tested positive.
Now, the BBC are being super-cautious re social distancing, mask-wearing etc. in offices and galleries and there was a deep clean done on Friday afternoon.
However, virtually all the staff were pinged over the weekend and it was just not possible to mount a programme there on Monday or Tuesday so Norwich did one which covered the whole patch.

BBC Covid rules prohibit staff moving between centres or the employment of casual freelances so there was no other option.

BBC London gallery staff are serviced from Network but the journalists are local so it?s a question of spreading what effort they have very thinly.

Peter Neill
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From saranewman at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 21 05:08:44 2021
From: saranewman at hotmail.com (Sara Newman)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 10:08:44 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB19813CF81B4364AB13018FB9A7E29@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <49939E8A-D614-44B1-A118-B6EF0B2EFD65@btinternet.com>,
	<F75FB8C1-5AFD-45BB-9C8E-F02D0470FFD3@btinternet.com>,
	<PAXP191MB19813CF81B4364AB13018FB9A7E29@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <DB9PR08MB7049203D52F75B1A7E662FEBD0E39@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Hi, my point was not to knock the brave people who put their lives at risk to help others in horrendous conditions but to point out that it needs to be properly constituted like the fire service and paid for. With those working being paid a proper wage Surely if they were on station and did not need to be called in they would also be more efficient. My attitude to certain charities changed after working in Africa and seeing what they actually did on the ground and how stuff was set up and money allocated. They often caused more harm than good and I speak from experience as I worked for Ghana broadcasting with the FO making films about charity work around the country I know this is far from the original RNLI question but basically charities are businesses with premises and pension schemes and should have the same level of oversight and what I was asking was,  should the work that RNLI do be properly financed and money levied on the users so maybe a proper tax on boats and stuff. Sara

Sent from my iPhone

On 20 Jul 2021, at 18:06, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? Presumably, if the RNLI has the boats and the free volunteers, all it?s running costs are in fuel and maintenance, plus of course, as ever, top heavy management and admin costs.
When my Father-in-Law died five years ago, the RNLI had the pick of almost all of the entire contents of his six bedroom house, and it took a big removal van to take it away. Recently, when his sister died they had the pick of the entire contents of her house, plus a nearby two bed bungalow (both awaiting Probate). Figures we?ve received since show that the RNLI did rather well out of it. Sadly, due to circumstances, the Government will make off with just under ?500,000 in death duties on Aunt?s Estate alone, which incidentally, has to be paid in full in advance of the beneficiaries (which incidentally, includes the RNLI) receiving a single penny. Yes, you did read that correctly!
Personally, I have two sons by my first marriage, and two daughters by my second marriage. I know where every penny in my Estate is going.
Just make sure your Wills are bang up to date, folks. Things have changed! If you have surplus ?dosh? and no-one to leave it to, you might as well give it away now.
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 20 Jul 2021, at 17:03, Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? You ask Steve; ??.when did the Royal ?National? extend its boundaries to International?? Answer: a long time ago when the RNLI agreed to cover Eire.

Barry. (Governor RNLI)



On 20 Jul 2021, at 13:24, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

Not being pedantic here but since when did the Royal ?National? extend its boundaries to International?

?This underlines my point that the RNLI clearly have plenty of surplus funds available to extend beyond rescuing lives here in the UK if it can help others with projects in other far away countries like teaching people how to swim - even down to buying them Burkinis whilst the frontline volunteers risking their own lives at sea here in the UK are unpaid!

Hmmm

Steve

On 20 Jul 2021, at 12:19, Graeme Wall <graeme.wall at icloud.com<mailto:graeme.wall at icloud.com>> wrote:

?As ever the story reported in the UK press is not what is actually happening.  The ?burkinis issue? is actually about teaching people in these countries to swim, drowning being the third most common cause of accidntal death worldwide. As in many other fields, encouraging the women in these communities to swim ensures that the skills are more likely to get passed on to their children.
?
Graeme Wall


On 20 Jul 2021, at 09:52, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
I didn?t ?Knock them? as you put it - I agree with you they do a great job saving lives: I was pointing out that key RNLI volunteers are unpaid for putting their lives at risk whilst this charity has an annual income of nearly ?200 million!  I could have also mentioned that the RNLI has a Chief Executive with a ?160 K salary ??but last year he very kindly offered to give a 50% pay cut until the Corona crisis has passed - although I can?t verify whether it was merely nothing more than just an ?offer? or whether he?s actually received a pay cut - nevertheless if my maths are correct he should hopefully be able to survive on ?80k out of donated money.
I wonder if he will donate anything himself?
I?m a bit surprised that you?re asking other people to donate money to a charity without you yourself having any understanding of the RNLI?s finances, as you state that you?ve ?never been tempted to investigate income of RNLI? which is a pity as you could have informed us they have a surplus of many millions left in the kitty out of their total income of nearly ?200 million for the year 2020 alone - they already have plenty of funds to keep them well afloat - but the volunteers risking their own lives remain unpaid - they see none of the income!
Perhaps others would prefer to have a better insight so as they can have a more informed decision as to whether they choose to donate to any charity when somebody makes a random plea on their behalf?
The RNLI have come under fire recently for axing 100 UK jobs whilst spending millions of pounds on projects in other countries including of all things buying Burkinis for protecting the modesty of Muslim women in Africa - all out of donations!
As I said previously, there may be something not satisfactory going on when it comes to others spending other people?s money.
We should all ask ourselves: Is a Charity as charitable as it would like you to think or can you really trust the Trust and how it spends your dosh ?
Steve
PS.   Lend us a Tenner will you !
On 19 Jul 2021, at 11:57, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
?
I don?t think your comparison is valid, Sara!
The AA/RAC is a subscription service if motorists need attendance when they break down.
If one is a yachtsman, I don?t think they subscribe to the RNLI in case they might need rescuing.
The fact that the crews are unpaid volunteers, who put their own lives at risk, speaks wonders for the degree that they selflessly offer help in emergency.
Do watch some of the ?Saving Lives at Sea? programmes.
Alastair ? the crew would not make political judgements when rescuing ? their priority is saving human lives ? but they might have immigration authorities alongside the ambulances at the quayside? Why not write  to them to discover what their policy would be?
Steve ? I?ve never been tempted to investigate income of RNLI.
They are always asking for donations. It must soak up an awful lot of dosh to maintain the lifeboat stations, the boats and equipment. If you happen to be someone who likes ?messing about in boats? or sea bathing/paddleboarding etc and got into difficulties, wouldn?t you welcome the sight of the blue and orange craft speeding to your rescue?
Don?t knock them!
I?ll end a further e-mail with a virtual tour of the Tamar Class boat.
Pat
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Sara Newman
Sent: 17 July 2021 23:01
To: Alasdair Lawrance
Cc: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Tech1] RNLI
Hi I am maybe of a minority but the RNIL are just like r the RAC-AA   Of the sea So since we have people with ?1bn excess why am I paying their rescue insurance services
Sent from my iPhone
On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:43, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
?
Pat et al -
The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's latest immigration  crackdown bill goes through Parliament.
It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who are in need of assistance.
Alasdair Lawrance
Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
On 17 Jul 2021, at 22:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
?
I hope this does not infringe the rules of posting, Bernie, but I would like to make a plea for people with any spare cash to consider supporting the RNLI.
I have several friends and colleagues who like ?messing about in boats? and seeing the rescues depicted in ?Saving Lives at Sea?, watching the unpaid volunteer crews who risk their own lives answering a shout, makes it very essential to donate as much as possible.
The largest lifeboat is the Tamar class and costs  ?2.6 million ? a video is available from the website.
https://rnli.org/what-we-do/lifeboats-and-stations/our-lifeboat-fleet<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Frnli.org%2Fwhat-we-do%2Flifeboats-and-stations%2Four-lifeboat-fleet&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cd917d03fb9844b674b9708d94ba0c174%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637623976081676115%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=88V8qOxn0bGyYdjQvw%2B5aqYpK8xcdDMrd6hBPIv8I%2BU%3D&reserved=0>
Supporting can be via direct donations, or by buying the raffle tickets, or purchasing from the on-line shop.
Pat
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Wed Jul 21 05:09:37 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 11:09:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <FDD287DB81CA432BBBC01D1ED9B07108@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <594e7bf0c4davesound@btinternet.com><02EE882E-4268-4354-A94A-FCF39528BE95@me.com><594eefc988davesound@btinternet.com><451ee839-a9ce-6559-9a16-0d8f70cf1aa3@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<594f040215davesound@btinternet.com>
	<FDD287DB81CA432BBBC01D1ED9B07108@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <594f74183bdavesound@btinternet.com>

In article <FDD287DB81CA432BBBC01D1ED9B07108 at DESKTOP6GGCRV1>,
   David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I read Chris' info as indicating that they offered copper for UK
> vehicles but not for German/Continental. I don't think he was implying
> that Kunifer wasn't available for UK cars.

 Yes - that is one way of reading it. But it also suggests only the UK
allows copper, which I'd be very surprised if it were true. I dunno if
Automec even exports anyway.

Think is that copper was used for many a year on cars, before the much
cheaper steel. So just what a problem work hardening is in practice, I'm
not sure. But am sure many just love scare stories. 

Perhaps I should set up a test rig to vibrate copper, kunifer and steel
pipe, And see just how long they all take to fracture.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Wed Jul 21 05:40:27 2021
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 11:40:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] BBC London News escapes again!
In-Reply-To: <7CC90714150B4FF28C3483001143AA60@Gigabyte>
References: <7CC90714150B4FF28C3483001143AA60@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <0D43F03E-A560-45FF-9539-E2F8F8623693@btinternet.com>

Perhaps it?s because the presenters are fed up with poor framing with their heads often touching the top of the frame and the street interviewees' tops of heads cut off frequently! 
Also poor sound mixing often very slow in matching levels.
Barry.



On 21 Jul 2021, at 09:13, Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Does anyone know why BBC London news seems to have fled to Tonbridge Wells again (or somewaher darhn sarf)?
> Is it because BH newsroom aircon has failed or just they don?t want to report hardly anything about actual London?
> Or perhaps because the HUGE newsroom is almost empty or the background videos of London have failed  - the ones with the moored barges which haven't moved for years (like the inserted clock yesterday on BBC Breakfast and replaced by a digital and an anlage clock propped up on the sofa between presenters (he he). At one stage they said that they were asking which was preferred by the viewers!
> At least the weather lady was on BH roof with the view down Regent Street that we remember from sitting in the old canteen in BH Extension.
>  
> Mike
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
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> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Wed Jul 21 05:40:08 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 11:40:08 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <DB9PR08MB7049203D52F75B1A7E662FEBD0E39@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <49939E8A-D614-44B1-A118-B6EF0B2EFD65@btinternet.com>
	<F75FB8C1-5AFD-45BB-9C8E-F02D0470FFD3@btinternet.com>
	<PAXP191MB19813CF81B4364AB13018FB9A7E29@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<DB9PR08MB7049203D52F75B1A7E662FEBD0E39@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <de7b0d2a-4009-d2e2-2965-fe8636dd462b@chriswoolf.co.uk>

On 21/07/2021 11:08, Sara Newman via Tech1 wrote:
> Hi, my point was not to knock the brave people who put their lives at 
> risk to help others in horrendous conditions but to point out that it 
> needs to be properly constituted like the fire service and paid for. 
> With those working being paid a proper wage Surely if they were on 
> station and did not need to be called in they would also be more 
> efficient....

As with so many emergency services around the UK "full time" simply 
isn't a goer. The number of emergencies are just not enough to warrant 
it. Hence in most rural areas fire people are "retained", not full-time 
paid. Just as the RNLI guys are mostly fishermen and the like, the fire 
service uses local drivers and builders etc. They would get bored to 
tears waiting weeks between "shouts" and to maintain any enthusiasm and 
fitness they would be on permanent training sessions. It may not be a 
perfect solution but it does actually work pretty well.

When the Coastguard became centralised and moved away from community 
volunteers they lost a vast amount of local knowledge, and many argue 
that despite the improved communications the service doesn't work as 
well now.

Businesses have to placate their shareholders or stakeholders, and the 
demands of such arrangements can put the emphasis in the wrong place. If 
leisure boats were taxed for the use of the RNLI "insurance" (not 
actually against that) would they get cross at having to pay for beach 
safety services? And if so, do we have to fence off beaches and demand 
people pay to use them? The solution isn't simple.

Charities can certainly be badly corrupted but there is a lot of space 
for partly funded community services that do still work very well.

Chris Woolf






-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From tonynuttall at me.com  Wed Jul 21 05:45:44 2021
From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 10:45:44 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Brake Pipes
Message-ID: <e9bdbd74-548e-4c7b-b298-8cedf9aed94b@me.com>

Hi Folks,
I remember as a young lad replacing my ?MGB GT mild steel brake system pipes
with copper. I think the reason was due to rust on both the interior of the tubes
and?the exterior??of the tubes. I seem to recall the brake fluid was also
replaced as the original fluid was water based?
Was??that the problem that caused?the rust?

What is now the recommended type of?fluid?

Tony N.
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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Wed Jul 21 08:26:25 2021
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 14:26:25 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
In-Reply-To: <594f74183bdavesound@btinternet.com>
References: <594f74183bdavesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <31720D13-E566-4A6D-86A9-4BD67CB5FB9F@zero51.force9.co.uk>

There is a second factor with copper brake lines in that they are inferior to kunifer and steel under many thousands of high pressure pulses on a test rig which eventually causes longitudinal splits. Rot is not an issue.
Fatigue would likely cause fractures across the pipe rather than splits, again not an issue in this test.
Back in 1963/4, I was in a 750 motor club driving test, a relatively informal affair in those days, on a Sunday and on a Biggin Hill Airfield runway, (It was in a fallow period) whizzing in and out of cone marked ?garages?, guessing your car?s width and driving through that gap etc. I was using my Austin 7 Nippy, with a hydraulic brake conversion when it suffered a brake pipe split where it ran across the rear axle. Borrowed a hammer, squashed the pipe flat to fix the leak and carried on with front brakes only. Now that was a copper pipe system but I have no idea how long since the conversion had been done. Somewhere between 1934 and 1964 but most likely post war so probably 10 to 15 years old
Advice? After 10 years start carrying a can of Dot 4 and a hammer.

Peter Fox

On 21 Jul 2021, at 11:11, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?In article <FDD287DB81CA432BBBC01D1ED9B07108 at DESKTOP6GGCRV1>,
  David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I read Chris' info as indicating that they offered copper for UK
> vehicles but not for German/Continental. I don't think he was implying
> that Kunifer wasn't available for UK cars.

Yes - that is one way of reading it. But it also suggests only the UK
allows copper, which I'd be very surprised if it were true. I dunno if
Automec even exports anyway.

Think is that copper was used for many a year on cars, before the much
cheaper steel. So just what a problem work hardening is in practice, I'm
not sure. But am sure many just love scare stories. 

Perhaps I should set up a test rig to vibrate copper, kunifer and steel
pipe, And see just how long they all take to fracture.

-- 
   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12


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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Wed Jul 21 14:34:12 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 20:34:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] recent RNLI thread
Message-ID: <3BCE469CD84D4522B3D39EE66FFC016A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Did anyone else have this experience. I found this (and Nick?s original email from yesterday) in my junk folder



Dave Newbitt.
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From techtone at protonmail.com  Wed Jul 21 15:30:39 2021
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 20:30:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Air con
Message-ID: <9sltyCNxmGm3MLjDazESNu0rF4d9t2SiJsGRSLi71JvTlbIp3Ogz06poEqZZvNPaN3Ek0kfhPxtXP5JknhZzBwtAQ4OllI2epAsyUZTsKAk=@protonmail.com>

With all this talk of plumbing and pipework, I suddenly wondered if any of you have an air con unit at home. When we lived in Chalfont St. Peter, one of our neighbours had air con in his lounge, but it was seriously noisy when running, and I think the noise would have made a good night's sleep difficult if it was necessary to run it during the night.

So, any thoughts on keeping cool indoors during this weather (considering the possibility of more of the same in future years)?

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.
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From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Jul 21 16:26:34 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 22:26:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Air con
In-Reply-To: <9sltyCNxmGm3MLjDazESNu0rF4d9t2SiJsGRSLi71JvTlbIp3Ogz06poEqZZvNPaN3Ek0kfhPxtXP5JknhZzBwtAQ4OllI2epAsyUZTsKAk=@protonmail.com>
References: <9sltyCNxmGm3MLjDazESNu0rF4d9t2SiJsGRSLi71JvTlbIp3Ogz06poEqZZvNPaN3Ek0kfhPxtXP5JknhZzBwtAQ4OllI2epAsyUZTsKAk=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <7838C209-74EA-43BF-8D23-241EF3006DEE@me.com>

My son bought a house with an air conditioned conservatory. He felt that it was a total waste of time - unable to properly counter the heat from the sun, noisy and expensive to run. It could be used to heat the conservatory in winter, but he rarely felt the need to do that.

In my house we don?t have any air conditioning, but we do try to reduce heat build up by drawing they blinds on windows when sun is shining through them them, opening windows on opposite sides of the house to encourage airflow naturally. 

We also, W use electric fans.  You can use a fan two ways.  During the heat of the day you can suck hot air out of the house and blow it outside, after sunset, you can draw cool air in and blow it into the room. We have some HomeKit controlled mains sockets which are normally used for something else, but in summer we plug in two fans, one blowing air out of the bedroom and another sucking cool air in through a different window.  The Home app allows you to set timers for when they run.  After midday and until sunset, a fan switches on to suck out the hot air.  An hour or so before sunset, the other fan draws cool air in. Depending on how hot the weather is, that fan either turns off at bedtime, or stays on into the small hours or even throughout the night.

The great advantage of using smart switches is that you can turn them on/off, or tweak the timer settings remotely according to the weather, even if you?re away from hom. They?re only used for a small number of days each year, but make a massive difference and it?s just re-using stuff we already have in the house for other purposes.

Alan Taylor

> On 21 Jul 2021, at 21:31, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> With all this talk of plumbing and pipework, I suddenly wondered if any of you have an air con unit at home. When we lived in Chalfont St. Peter, one of our neighbours had air con in his lounge, but it was seriously noisy when running, and I think the noise would have made a good night's sleep difficult if it was necessary to run it during the night.
> 
> So, any thoughts on keeping cool indoors during this weather (considering the possibility of more of the same in future years)?
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 21 16:53:59 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 22:53:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Air con
In-Reply-To: <9sltyCNxmGm3MLjDazESNu0rF4d9t2SiJsGRSLi71JvTlbIp3Ogz06poEqZZvNPaN3Ek0kfhPxtXP5JknhZzBwtAQ4OllI2epAsyUZTsKAk=@protonmail.com>
References: <9sltyCNxmGm3MLjDazESNu0rF4d9t2SiJsGRSLi71JvTlbIp3Ogz06poEqZZvNPaN3Ek0kfhPxtXP5JknhZzBwtAQ4OllI2epAsyUZTsKAk=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <d6d47cc3-eb48-a1da-4a57-1448959aa24d@gmail.com>

Long ago I bought a portable aircon machine for my young son's bedroom, 
which is on the sunny corner of the house and doesn't have good 
ventilation.

Twenty years on, it's here behind me in my small "office", with the tube 
stuck out the window. It's the only room in the house where it's 
comfortable to be, though it's jolly noisy.? In a few days it will go 
back into it's corner till next year.

B




On 21/07/2021 21:30, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
> With all this talk of plumbing and pipework, I suddenly wondered if 
> any of you have an air con unit at home. When we lived in Chalfont St. 
> Peter, one of our neighbours had air con in his lounge, but it was 
> seriously noisy when running, and I think the noise would have made a 
> good night's sleep difficult if it was necessary to run it during the 
> night.
>
> So, any thoughts on keeping cool indoors during this weather 
> (considering the possibility of more of the same in future years)?
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
>
>

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From relong at btinternet.com  Wed Jul 21 17:26:40 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 23:26:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Air con
In-Reply-To: <d6d47cc3-eb48-a1da-4a57-1448959aa24d@gmail.com>
References: <d6d47cc3-eb48-a1da-4a57-1448959aa24d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9794A7A1-DA17-40DE-87D7-DAF87130EF2B@btinternet.com>

We live in a thick walled stone cottage from 1760.
The southwest face gets to high 30s ,we open front and back doors , and the temperature differential drives a cooling  breeze through the ground floors.
The best airco I have ever experienced  , silent and cool.

Roger

Sent from my iPhone

> On 21 Jul 2021, at 22:54, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Long ago I bought a portable aircon machine for my young son's bedroom, which is on the sunny corner of the house and doesn't have good ventilation. 
> 
> Twenty years on, it's here behind me in my small "office", with the tube stuck out the window. It's the only room in the house where it's comfortable to be, though it's jolly noisy.  In a few days it will go back into it's corner till next year.
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 21/07/2021 21:30, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
>> With all this talk of plumbing and pipework, I suddenly wondered if any of you have an air con unit at home. When we lived in Chalfont St. Peter, one of our neighbours had air con in his lounge, but it was seriously noisy when running, and I think the noise would have made a good night's sleep difficult if it was necessary to run it during the night.
>> 
>> So, any thoughts on keeping cool indoors during this weather (considering the possibility of more of the same in future years)?
>> 
>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>> 
>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alex.thomas1 at talktalk.net  Wed Jul 21 17:35:15 2021
From: alex.thomas1 at talktalk.net (Alex Thomas)
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 23:35:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] recent RNLI thread
In-Reply-To: <3BCE469CD84D4522B3D39EE66FFC016A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <3BCE469CD84D4522B3D39EE66FFC016A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <001e01d77e80$ad292ef0$077b8cd0$@talktalk.net>

My Eset  virus detector gave the same message and assured me that the trojan had been neutralised.

 

Alex Thmas.

 

 

 

From: Tech1 On Behalf Of David Newbitt via Tech1
Sent: 21 July 2021 20:34
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
Subject: [Tech1] recent RNLI thread

 

Did anyone else have this experience. I found this (and Nick?s original email from yesterday) in my junk folder

 



 

Dave Newbitt.

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From mibridge at mac.com  Wed Jul 21 18:21:04 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 00:21:04 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Petition: Move the State Pension age back to 60 for both
 men & women
Message-ID: <7DFD608B-0ABB-4E62-BD45-05C2650F166D@mac.com>

?I don?t think this counts as political (sorry if I am mistaken) but in view of our favoured status as ?baby boomers?, many of us, with all the benefits that that accident of birth brought us, it?s the least we can do for our offspring. Apologise to those not so blessed!

Mike G

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/581736

From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com  Wed Jul 21 19:04:47 2021
From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 09:04:47 +0900
Subject: [Tech1] Air con
In-Reply-To: <9794A7A1-DA17-40DE-87D7-DAF87130EF2B@btinternet.com>
References: <9794A7A1-DA17-40DE-87D7-DAF87130EF2B@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <EE6D4C92-9F0A-4147-9CD6-6F9611D37691@icloud.com>

One of the several ?innovative? things I did when we built our house 16 years ago was to install a ?fresh air ventilation system? which has been invaluable since we moved in. As well as supplying a constant changing of the fresh air in all rooms it combines with a heat exchange unit to keep warm air inside in the winter and outside in the summer. When we installed it I went to the extra expense of upgrading the pipe work to allow for an external air conditioning unit to be added later but we?ve never felt the need to do this as even during the hottest days outside the house is cool inside. The extra bonus has been really good air quality as it?s also git a great filtration system.
Building from scratch also gave me the opportunity to put in a central vacuum system so the main unit is in the garage and vacuuming becomes a magically silent thing to do.
Also, despite protestations at the time from the electrician I?m also very grateful that I put CAT 6 cables through the whole house as due to the solid floor construction conventional wifi was really poor early on.
By the end of the build I never wanted to see another builder in my life but we?re just looking at doing it all again somewhere new!! Time is a great healer.

Graham Maunder
07831 515678

Sent from my iPhone 

> On 22 Jul 2021, at 07:27, Roger Long via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?We live in a thick walled stone cottage from 1760.
> The southwest face gets to high 30s ,we open front and back doors , and the temperature differential drives a cooling  breeze through the ground floors.
> The best airco I have ever experienced  , silent and cool.
> 
> Roger
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On 21 Jul 2021, at 22:54, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ? Long ago I bought a portable aircon machine for my young son's bedroom, which is on the sunny corner of the house and doesn't have good ventilation. 
>> 
>> Twenty years on, it's here behind me in my small "office", with the tube stuck out the window. It's the only room in the house where it's comfortable to be, though it's jolly noisy.  In a few days it will go back into it's corner till next year.
>> 
>> B
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 21/07/2021 21:30, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
>>> With all this talk of plumbing and pipework, I suddenly wondered if any of you have an air con unit at home. When we lived in Chalfont St. Peter, one of our neighbours had air con in his lounge, but it was seriously noisy when running, and I think the noise would have made a good night's sleep difficult if it was necessary to run it during the night.
>>> 
>>> So, any thoughts on keeping cool indoors during this weather (considering the possibility of more of the same in future years)?
>>> 
>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>> 
>>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jul 22 02:27:36 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 08:27:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] recent RNLI thread
In-Reply-To: <3BCE469CD84D4522B3D39EE66FFC016A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <3BCE469CD84D4522B3D39EE66FFC016A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <60f91de8.1c69fb81.d4682.c957@mx.google.com>

I use Avast Premium Security, which ?pings? loudly if a nasty is detected, and is put into a quarantine folder, and the offending file(s) can then be deleted. I have had a couple in the last few days, but having deleted them, I can?t say if they originated from Sara.
Malwarebytes is a free download programme that will scan your computer and spot any infections.
Also, the above mentioned Avast will perform the same function. It is an annual subscription service.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: David Newbitt via Tech1
Sent: 21 July 2021 20:34
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
Subject: [Tech1] recent RNLI thread

Did anyone else have this experience. I found this (and Nick?s original email from yesterday) in my junk folder
?

?
Dave Newbitt.



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jul 22 02:36:04 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 08:36:04 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <7A24B436-8ED2-456C-99B7-5A4C5E473E67@me.com>
References: <60f34b50.1c69fb81.7603c.1158@mx.google.com>
	<7A24B436-8ED2-456C-99B7-5A4C5E473E67@me.com>
Message-ID: <60f91fe3.1c69fb81.94929.0a9f@mx.google.com>

Here?s an item from the RNLI newsletter, received today, which explains their policy for this occurrence.
Our rescue work in the English Channel 
You may have seen news coverage or social media posts about our lifeboat crews going to the aid of migrants in the English Channel. As a supporter, it?s important you know that, wherever we believe there is a risk to life at sea, we will continue to launch to the rescue.

HM Coastguard and the Irish Coast Guard can request any of our lifeboats to launch to a search and rescue incident. Our lifeboats operate under international maritime law, which states we are permitted and indeed obligated to enter all waters for search and rescue purposes.

Once a rescue is complete, we hand over responsibility for migrant casualties to the UK Border Force and/or the police. The RNLI?s focus remains fixed on our core purpose: to save lives at sea, wherever those lives are in danger around our coasts, for whatever reason. And we can?t do that without your kind support, or the volunteers who answer the call. Those crews are working together in the south east of England to provide support for each other where needed. We thank them for continuing to preserve the lives of others without judgement, and for working together to ensure our 24/7 lifesaving service is ready to save every one we can. 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alasdair Lawrance
Sent: 17 July 2021 22:42
To: patheigham
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI

Pat et al -

The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's latest immigration ?crackdown bill goes through Parliament.

It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who are in need of assistance.
Alasdair Lawrance




-- 
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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Jul 22 03:20:36 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 09:20:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Air con
In-Reply-To: <EE6D4C92-9F0A-4147-9CD6-6F9611D37691@icloud.com>
References: <EE6D4C92-9F0A-4147-9CD6-6F9611D37691@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <801F056B-C31B-4450-A8C8-B6B56C02E5E4@me.com>

Effective ventilation can keep a house much cooler in the hot weather, but it also can allow flies and mosquitoes in.  A friend of mine used to swear by fine screens stretched across windows but my house has a number of windows which aren?t suitable for self adhesive strips to hold the mesh.

Some of my windows have stone mullions with Crittall steel window frames.  These pose two problems, one is that I don?t like the idea of sticking self adhesive Velcro to stone, the other is that the window doesn?t have a window stay to hold it open.  There is supposed to be a friction adjustment in the hinge, but the adjusting screw has long since jammed up.

I made wooden frames to fit the windows and recessed a number of 6mm magnets into them to hold the frame onto the steel window frame.  The mesh is stretched over the frame and the whole assembly easily lifts on and off in a moment. 

Keeping the window open called for more ingenuity.  I tried several approaches but ended up using magnets again, but these are very strong 25mm diameter magnets in a metal shell with an M5 male thread. I found an aerospace supplier on eBay who sold what I believe are throttle linkages. It?s a sort of ball bearing joint with an M5 male thread at one end and a female thread at the other. Another eBay supplier sold me thick walled aluminium tube which was just the right size for tapping M5, leaving plenty of material to maintain it?s strength.  

I?ve attached a picture and you can see how it all goes together.  I optmised the exposure to show the mesh as best as I can, but in reality, the tightly stretched black mesh is almost invisible in most lighting conditions.



Another window posed multiple challenges. That one is a round window, again supposedly with a friction mechanism to keep it open, but the adjusting screw is jammed solid.  The mesh screen over that window was the easier challenge.  I made a ring of MDF with a smaller ring behind it, the mesh is trapped between the two.  Holding it in position looked to be tricky to achieve neatly until I started making the smaller ring.  Although the window is circular, by the time the plasterer had smoothed it neatly, the inside aperture was slightly eccentric, even though it looked circular. The inner ring was scribed to exactly fit the shape and when the rings and mesh are offered up to the window, you only need to twist it slightly and it locks firmly into place like a cam.

Keeping the window open was much more tricky.  The wooden frame meant that magnets were no use and the position of the window makes it awkward to reach any mechanical clamp. Furthermore, adjusting the window was going to be a little tedious if it meant removing the frame which holds the mesh in order to tweak the clamp. 

I ended up buying a 12v linear actuator from eBay ( intended for operating things like windows, seats and mirrors in cars - cost about ?16 ). I had hoped to mount the actuator vertically with one end screwed to the frame and the other screwed to the window, but when the window was shut, the disadvantageous leverage meant that the weather seal made it too stiff to break that seal.  I ended up having to mount it pushing the window directly and it works really well, although in hindsight, I should have got an actuator with a longer travel. The actuator is operated by a generic car window switch mounted on a standard 1 gang blanking plate and as it?s in a bathroom and there isn?t power readily available there, it?s powered from a 12v lead acid gel battery inside a cupboard. I have several of these batteries for my audio gear.  I don?t know how long it goes between recharges, but make a point of operating it every day and four months on, it?s still going strong.  The next battery is charged up and ready to be dropped in and connected by it?s 4pin XLR.

The next task is to get it connected via HomeKit.  It will need mains power instead of the battery, but suitable controllers are excessively pricey, so I?ve got a couple of ideas about doing it more affordably.



?. and yes Graham, CAT 6 cabling is great to have routed around the house.  We have stone walls, solid floors and beamed ceilings, therefore running cables inconspicuously calls for some ingenuity. Whenever a room is being refurbished or a floor taken up, I try to install CAT6 cables for future use.  Sometimes used for ethernet data purposes and other times to distribute A/V signals via adaptors. Having said that, wireless systems are getting more practical these days.  Fortunately our new router means that WiFi works well throughout the house, but it struggles to pass  through the external walls so we use a separate sender for the garden.

Alan Taylor


> On 22 Jul 2021, at 01:05, Graham Maunder via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?One of the several ?innovative? things I did when we built our house 16 years ago was to install a ?fresh air ventilation system? which has been invaluable since we moved in. As well as supplying a constant changing of the fresh air in all rooms it combines with a heat exchange unit to keep warm air inside in the winter and outside in the summer. When we installed it I went to the extra expense of upgrading the pipe work to allow for an external air conditioning unit to be added later but we?ve never felt the need to do this as even during the hottest days outside the house is cool inside. The extra bonus has been really good air quality as it?s also git a great filtration system.
> Building from scratch also gave me the opportunity to put in a central vacuum system so the main unit is in the garage and vacuuming becomes a magically silent thing to do.
> Also, despite protestations at the time from the electrician I?m also very grateful that I put CAT 6 cables through the whole house as due to the solid floor construction conventional wifi was really poor early on.
> By the end of the build I never wanted to see another builder in my life but we?re just looking at doing it all again somewhere new!! Time is a great healer.
> 
> Graham Maunder
> 07831 515678
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> 
>>> On 22 Jul 2021, at 07:27, Roger Long via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?We live in a thick walled stone cottage from 1760.
>> The southwest face gets to high 30s ,we open front and back doors , and the temperature differential drives a cooling  breeze through the ground floors.
>> The best airco I have ever experienced  , silent and cool.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On 21 Jul 2021, at 22:54, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ? Long ago I bought a portable aircon machine for my young son's bedroom, which is on the sunny corner of the house and doesn't have good ventilation. 
>>> 
>>> Twenty years on, it's here behind me in my small "office", with the tube stuck out the window. It's the only room in the house where it's comfortable to be, though it's jolly noisy.  In a few days it will go back into it's corner till next year.
>>> 
>>> B
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 21/07/2021 21:30, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> With all this talk of plumbing and pipework, I suddenly wondered if any of you have an air con unit at home. When we lived in Chalfont St. Peter, one of our neighbours had air con in his lounge, but it was seriously noisy when running, and I think the noise would have made a good night's sleep difficult if it was necessary to run it during the night.
>>>> 
>>>> So, any thoughts on keeping cool indoors during this weather (considering the possibility of more of the same in future years)?
>>>> 
>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>> 
>>>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Thu Jul 22 03:24:14 2021
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 09:24:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Petition: Move the State Pension age back to 60 for
 both men & women
In-Reply-To: <7DFD608B-0ABB-4E62-BD45-05C2650F166D@mac.com>
Message-ID: <gp99uohspjikelirtgjuseo8.1626942254069@pgtmedia.co.uk>

As far as I know the age has never been 60 for men! 




Paul Thackray
PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
+44 7802 243979
Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
Linkedin;?? http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/



	? Original Message ?	


From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 22 July 2021 00:21
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Reply to: mibridge at mac.com
Subject: [Tech1] Petition: Move the State Pension age back to 60 for both men & women


?I don?t think this counts as political (sorry if I am mistaken) but in view of our favoured status as ?baby boomers?, many of us, with all the benefits that that accident of birth brought us, it?s the least we can do for our offspring. Apologise to those not so blessed!

Mike G

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/581736
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From stevewlowry at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 22 03:44:03 2021
From: stevewlowry at hotmail.com (Steve Lowry)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 08:44:03 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd:  Air con
In-Reply-To: <DB7PR08MB38178D3F02BDE35A95E444BDB6E49@DB7PR08MB3817.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <EE6D4C92-9F0A-4147-9CD6-6F9611D37691@icloud.com>
	<801F056B-C31B-4450-A8C8-B6B56C02E5E4@me.com>,
	<DB7PR08MB38178D3F02BDE35A95E444BDB6E49@DB7PR08MB3817.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DB7PR08MB3817706F6BED5E410F1B278FB6E49@DB7PR08MB3817.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Hi,

 Perhaps these rough notes from my experience with home air-con will help, (or not)!? ?Sorry!? if not.
My 27-year old home in Berkshire retains heat. That?s good for the winter, but really not helpful in hot summer conditions ? Overnight, in previous years, that has left indoor overnight temperatures in the high 20Cs, and that is very unhelpful for a good sleep. Night/day curtains use and air-flow from cooler exterior air (when available) only helped marginally ? It?s the thick air of the Thames Valley! For several years I researched air-conditioning for domestic use and considered the options:


  *   Fans blow hot air around for a breeze but they only give the impression of actual room cooling.
  *   DIY /Portable split-pack units need a venting solution that avoids hot air coming in from outside, around the area where the interior/exterior piping runs, and these units tend to be quite noisy.
  *   The ?proper?, but not cheap solution, was going to be for me to invest in professionally-fitted split-working air-conditioning units for the 2 key rooms: Main bedroom and lounge. - Two indoor wall-mounted units connected to a single external unit.

Ok, that?s actually easier said than done, to find that solution for my home:

When I was looking in 2019, There were not a lot of elegant units (this depends on individual tastes, of course) that would look ok in a domestic setting to choose from, and there were few well-recommended / decent installers out there for domestic installations.

Finally, I found this solution I was happy with (from 2019):

Something that didn?t look ugly indoors, that ran as an efficient heat pump (useful not just for summer cooling but also as a heating backup in winter should your boiler fail, say, or for top-up heat).


(Heat pumps make very efficient use of electricity as they ?use the free energy of the outside world? in part when they can.)

Whisper-quiet air-con turned out to be possible with the units I chose.

As importantly, I found a company (Protocool) who are used to providing and supportiing domestic air-con installations, with good, non-pushy pre-sales advice and a spotless professional installation.

Firstly, The Kit (Daikin)

https://www.daikin.co.uk/en_gb/product-group/air-to-air-heat-pumps/stylish.html<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.daikin.co.uk%2Fen_gb%2Fproduct-group%2Fair-to-air-heat-pumps%2Fstylish.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cdfad1894a63f477b79be08d94ce9c93a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637625389247737632%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=KyX2FVQF0%2FoGxRlvnbmQ1bpmuFIgIXlAymvXGwVYOy8%3D&reserved=0>

Air Conditioning for Lounge & Bedroom 1
 Multi Split - Daikin Stylish System - 5kw external unit
2 x Daikin Stylish internal units in White
3.5kW in lounge
2.5kW in bedroom
(Lounge 3.5, kW Unit
(Bed 1, 2.5 kW Unit
 Online Controller
 You get full control of the units via individual remotes or, (handy when coming home from holidays in order to pre-cool rooms before your return, say) via a Daikin mobile phone App.
Brown trunking on external wall to?
External unit at low level in garden
The external unit will give up to 5 kw of cooling/heating at any one time. The capacity is shared if both units are running at the same time.
External Electrical Supply works:
Air conditioning systems require power!

Secondly, The Team: I can thoroughly recommend (in the Thames Valley area, at least)
PROTOCOOL LTD (MD: Steven Crame)

0118 971 0559
office at protocool.co.uk<mailto:office at protocool.co.uk>
www.protocool.co.uk<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.protocool.co.uk&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cdfad1894a63f477b79be08d94ce9c93a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637625389247737632%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=2DNfbeWCkYV9v%2FNW6tO3b5Ed%2BnIPC%2FzLlUxPiY8lvZ0%3D&reserved=0>

Through every summer since the installation of this kit, even when 30C plus outdoors, I now have a choice of cooling levels - wonderful. Of course, the more you cool with air-con the more it will cost in electricity bills and global warming, but I view the investing in this kit one of the best investments I have made since retirement (No more BBC-chilled Control Rooms to work in!). The running costs seem small. An annual service is advised.

With use of some internal doors open/ some shut within the home, rooms without the chilling kit can still indirectly benefit from the cooling in the rooms with the chilling kit.

Today, as I write this, 28C outside and just 22.5C in the lounge.

All the best,

Steve


From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 22 July 2021 09:21
To: tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Air con

Effective ventilation can keep a house much cooler in the hot weather, but it also can allow flies and mosquitoes in.  A friend of mine used to swear by fine screens stretched across windows but my house has a number of windows which aren?t suitable for self adhesive strips to hold the mesh.

Some of my windows have stone mullions with Crittall steel window frames.  These pose two problems, one is that I don?t like the idea of sticking self adhesive Velcro to stone, the other is that the window doesn?t have a window stay to hold it open.  There is supposed to be a friction adjustment in the hinge, but the adjusting screw has long since jammed up.

I made wooden frames to fit the windows and recessed a number of 6mm magnets into them to hold the frame onto the steel window frame.  The mesh is stretched over the frame and the whole assembly easily lifts on and off in a moment.

Keeping the window open called for more ingenuity.  I tried several approaches but ended up using magnets again, but these are very strong 25mm diameter magnets in a metal shell with an M5 male thread. I found an aerospace supplier on eBay who sold what I believe are throttle linkages. It?s a sort of ball bearing joint with an M5 male thread at one end and a female thread at the other. Another eBay supplier sold me thick walled aluminium tube which was just the right size for tapping M5, leaving plenty of material to maintain it?s strength.

I?ve attached a picture and you can see how it all goes together.  I optmised the exposure to show the mesh as best as I can, but in reality, the tightly stretched black mesh is almost invisible in most lighting conditions.

[cid:image001.jpg at 01D77EDC.DF9926E0]

Another window posed multiple challenges. That one is a round window, again supposedly with a friction mechanism to keep it open, but the adjusting screw is jammed solid.  The mesh screen over that window was the easier challenge.  I made a ring of MDF with a smaller ring behind it, the mesh is trapped between the two.  Holding it in position looked to be tricky to achieve neatly until I started making the smaller ring.  Although the window is circular, by the time the plasterer had smoothed it neatly, the inside aperture was slightly eccentric, even though it looked circular. The inner ring was scribed to exactly fit the shape and when the rings and mesh are offered up to the window, you only need to twist it slightly and it locks firmly into place like a cam.

Keeping the window open was much more tricky.  The wooden frame meant that magnets were no use and the position of the window makes it awkward to reach any mechanical clamp. Furthermore, adjusting the window was going to be a little tedious if it meant removing the frame which holds the mesh in order to tweak the clamp.

I ended up buying a 12v linear actuator from eBay ( intended for operating things like windows, seats and mirrors in cars - cost about ?16 ). I had hoped to mount the actuator vertically with one end screwed to the frame and the other screwed to the window, but when the window was shut, the disadvantageous leverage meant that the weather seal made it too stiff to break that seal.  I ended up having to mount it pushing the window directly and it works really well, although in hindsight, I should have got an actuator with a longer travel. The actuator is operated by a generic car window switch mounted on a standard 1 gang blanking plate and as it?s in a bathroom and there isn?t power readily available there, it?s powered from a 12v lead acid gel battery inside a cupboard. I have several of these batteries for my audio gear.  I don?t know how long it goes between recharges, but make a point of operating it every day and four months on, it?s still going strong.  The next battery is charged up and ready to be dropped in and connected by it?s 4pin XLR.

The next task is to get it connected via HomeKit.  It will need mains power instead of the battery, but suitable controllers are excessively pricey, so I?ve got a couple of ideas about doing it more affordably.

[cid:image002.jpg at 01D77EDC.DF9926E0]

?. and yes Graham, CAT 6 cabling is great to have routed around the house.  We have stone walls, solid floors and beamed ceilings, therefore running cables inconspicuously calls for some ingenuity. Whenever a room is being refurbished or a floor taken up, I try to install CAT6 cables for future use.  Sometimes used for ethernet data purposes and other times to distribute A/V signals via adaptors. Having said that, wireless systems are getting more practical these days.  Fortunately our new router means that WiFi works well throughout the house, but it struggles to pass  through the external walls so we use a separate sender for the garden.

Alan Taylor



On 22 Jul 2021, at 01:05, Graham Maunder via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
?One of the several ?innovative? things I did when we built our house 16 years ago was to install a ?fresh air ventilation system? which has been invaluable since we moved in. As well as supplying a constant changing of the fresh air in all rooms it combines with a heat exchange unit to keep warm air inside in the winter and outside in the summer. When we installed it I went to the extra expense of upgrading the pipe work to allow for an external air conditioning unit to be added later but we?ve never felt the need to do this as even during the hottest days outside the house is cool inside. The extra bonus has been really good air quality as it?s also git a great filtration system.
Building from scratch also gave me the opportunity to put in a central vacuum system so the main unit is in the garage and vacuuming becomes a magically silent thing to do.
Also, despite protestations at the time from the electrician I?m also very grateful that I put CAT 6 cables through the whole house as due to the solid floor construction conventional wifi was really poor early on.
By the end of the build I never wanted to see another builder in my life but we?re just looking at doing it all again somewhere new!! Time is a great healer.

Graham Maunder
07831 515678
Sent from my iPhone


On 22 Jul 2021, at 07:27, Roger Long via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
?We live in a thick walled stone cottage from 1760.
The southwest face gets to high 30s ,we open front and back doors , and the temperature differential drives a cooling  breeze through the ground floors.
The best airco I have ever experienced  , silent and cool.

Roger
Sent from my iPhone


On 21 Jul 2021, at 22:54, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
? Long ago I bought a portable aircon machine for my young son's bedroom, which is on the sunny corner of the house and doesn't have good ventilation.

Twenty years on, it's here behind me in my small "office", with the tube stuck out the window. It's the only room in the house where it's comfortable to be, though it's jolly noisy.  In a few days it will go back into it's corner till next year.

B



On 21/07/2021 21:30, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
With all this talk of plumbing and pipework, I suddenly wondered if any of you have an air con unit at home. When we lived in Chalfont St. Peter, one of our neighbours had air con in his lounge, but it was seriously noisy when running, and I think the noise would have made a good night's sleep difficult if it was necessary to run it during the night.

So, any thoughts on keeping cool indoors during this weather (considering the possibility of more of the same in future years)?

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with ProtonMail<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fprotonmail.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C8c78e26dcad44185e4f808d94ce9a8c4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637625388711883398%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=6vHkJpAVRoqRlgEupDQtnsh272G6hFqO6hjREasYjdo%3D&reserved=0> Secure Email.




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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Thu Jul 22 04:20:37 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 10:20:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Petition: Move the State Pension age back to 60 for
 both men & women
In-Reply-To: <gp99uohspjikelirtgjuseo8.1626942254069@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <gp99uohspjikelirtgjuseo8.1626942254069@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5677BFE5-9210-4AF1-98DC-14D9719DEE3E@icloud.com>

When first introduced back in 1908, the state pension age was 70. I think it was established as 65 for men and 60 for women in 1946. Company pensions could often have a lower age, as did the civil service.

As an aside I remember a talk on the BBC pension at Evesham. The guy doing the presentation mentioned that, in the engineering division, the fund paid out pensions for an average of 18 MONTHS after retirement. And this was retiring at 60!

Graeme Wall

> On 22 Jul 2021, at 09:24, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?As far as I know the age has never been 60 for men! 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Thackray
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
> +44 7802 243979
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
> 
> 
> 
>      Original Message      
> 
> 
> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Sent: 22 July 2021 00:21
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Reply to: mibridge at mac.com
> Subject: [Tech1] Petition: Move the State Pension age back to 60 for both men & women
> 
> 
> ?I don?t think this counts as political (sorry if I am mistaken) but in view of our favoured status as ?baby boomers?, many of us, with all the benefits that that accident of birth brought us, it?s the least we can do for our offspring. Apologise to those not so blessed!
> 
> Mike G
> 
> https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/581736
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Thu Jul 22 04:38:46 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 10:38:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Air con
In-Reply-To: <9794A7A1-DA17-40DE-87D7-DAF87130EF2B@btinternet.com>
References: <d6d47cc3-eb48-a1da-4a57-1448959aa24d@gmail.com>
	<9794A7A1-DA17-40DE-87D7-DAF87130EF2B@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <c74a5dde-bcab-71bc-2f54-f9b0f76bde61@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 21/07/2021 23:26, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
> We live in a thick walled stone cottage from 1760.

Oh Roger, I didn't realise you lived in a *modern* house! Mine's nearer 
1520;}

But, yes, in those days they understood a lot about large thermal masses 
and energy-efficient cooling. Nothing beats slate floors.

Really the best arrangement is to install underfloor pipework in all new 
houses. You can then use that for both heating and cooling, which is 
completely silent - not even the gurgling of radiator pipework (in 
copper, steel or kunifer).

If you can organise a decent thermally driven airflow through a 
building, then bowls of water can provide a phenomenal level of cooling. 
A lot of Mediterranean and North African buildings used that system - 
often a small pool in a central courtyard -? and could provide levels of 
"aircon" that cost us ?10s a day and a terrible noise penalty.

Chris Woolf


> The southwest face gets to high 30s ,we open front and back doors , 
> and the temperature differential drives a cooling ?breeze through the 
> ground floors.
> The best airco I have ever experienced ?, silent and cool.
>
> Roger
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 21 Jul 2021, at 22:54, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ? Long ago I bought a portable aircon machine for my young son's 
>> bedroom, which is on the sunny corner of the house and doesn't have 
>> good ventilation.
>>
>> Twenty years on, it's here behind me in my small "office", with the 
>> tube stuck out the window. It's the only room in the house where it's 
>> comfortable to be, though it's jolly noisy.? In a few days it will go 
>> back into it's corner till next year.
>>
>> B
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 21/07/2021 21:30, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
>>> With all this talk of plumbing and pipework, I suddenly wondered if 
>>> any of you have an air con unit at home. When we lived in Chalfont 
>>> St. Peter, one of our neighbours had air con in his lounge, but it 
>>> was seriously noisy when running, and I think the noise would have 
>>> made a good night's sleep difficult if it was necessary to run it 
>>> during the night.
>>>
>>> So, any thoughts on keeping cool indoors during this weather 
>>> (considering the possibility of more of the same in future years)?
>>>
>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>
>>> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>


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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Thu Jul 22 04:57:21 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 10:57:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] recent RNLI thread
In-Reply-To: <60f91de8.1c69fb81.d4682.c957@mx.google.com>
References: <3BCE469CD84D4522B3D39EE66FFC016A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<60f91de8.1c69fb81.d4682.c957@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <2BF05FFA249A46F988945CEAACE7C6BF@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

What I had hoped someone might be able to do was suggest whether the threat was perceived or real. My experience of all manner of protective software (including Windows itself) down the years has been that at times entirely innocent content is blocked when the ?threat? is of no consequence. 

Like Alex Thomas I am confident that ESET deleted the attachment which it saw as containing a risky Trojan presence. As other members? internet security arrangements have apparently not been unhappy with the attachment concerned I wonder if mine was freaking out for no good reason.

ESET obviously thinks it originated with Nick and subsequently Sara?s response passed it on.

  



Dave Newbitt.

From: patheigham via Tech1 
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2021 8:27 AM
To: David Newbitt ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] recent RNLI thread

I use Avast Premium Security, which ?pings? loudly if a nasty is detected, and is put into a quarantine folder, and the offending file(s) can then be deleted. I have had a couple in the last few days, but having deleted them, I can?t say if they originated from Sara.

Malwarebytes is a free download programme that will scan your computer and spot any infections.

Also, the above mentioned Avast will perform the same function. It is an annual subscription service.

Pat

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: David Newbitt via Tech1
Sent: 21 July 2021 20:34
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Cc: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net
Subject: [Tech1] recent RNLI thread

 

Did anyone else have this experience. I found this (and Nick?s original email from yesterday) in my junk folder

 



 

Dave Newbitt.

 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 22 05:20:37 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 11:20:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Petition: Move the State Pension age back to 60 for
 both men & women
In-Reply-To: <5677BFE5-9210-4AF1-98DC-14D9719DEE3E@icloud.com>
References: <5677BFE5-9210-4AF1-98DC-14D9719DEE3E@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <45E520A8-6CD7-4393-B169-534531011407@gmail.com>

I think whoever drew up that petition is chasing rainbows under the present economic situation and when as Paul says, life expectancy for the population in the western world has steadily increased over the last half century.
Both men and women who are in good health are quite capable of carrying on working well into their sixties as I and others of our colleagues did and some continued into their seventies with enjoyment. It?s good for the self esteem too, to know that we are still valued by an employer in that way and not written off as past it.
There are exceptions to this if the work is physically demanding or in cases like the police, though George Dixon was probably older than most when depicted as being still in office.
Personally as one who is witnessing the devastation to the countryside in the Chiltern hills and valleys near to where I live as way is made for HS2, I and may others would like to see that scrapped. Realistically there?s fat chance of that as it?s gone too far already, though the inhabitants of tree houses I see along parts of the route won?t give up till they?re carried off by the panoply of security guards who stand silently facing them down day after day.
I?m not sure what the target date is for the first trains to be running along it, or even any track installed as there?s lots more groundwork to be done before that, but if Crossrail is anything to go by, it?s more likely to be in the forties rather than the thirties and I?ll be unlikely to see it,

Geoff Hawkes

> On 22 Jul 2021, at 10:21, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?When first introduced back in 1908, the state pension age was 70. I think it was established as 65 for men and 60 for women in 1946. Company pensions could often have a lower age, as did the civil service.
> 
> As an aside I remember a talk on the BBC pension at Evesham. The guy doing the presentation mentioned that, in the engineering division, the fund paid out pensions for an average of 18 MONTHS after retirement. And this was retiring at 60!
> 
> Graeme Wall
> 
>> On 22 Jul 2021, at 09:24, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?As far as I know the age has never been 60 for men! 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Paul Thackray
>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>> +44 7802 243979
>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>     Original Message      
>> 
>> 
>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Sent: 22 July 2021 00:21
>> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Reply to: mibridge at mac.com
>> Subject: [Tech1] Petition: Move the State Pension age back to 60 for both men & women
>> 
>> 
>> ?I don?t think this counts as political (sorry if I am mistaken) but in view of our favoured status as ?baby boomers?, many of us, with all the benefits that that accident of birth brought us, it?s the least we can do for our offspring. Apologise to those not so blessed!
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>> https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/581736
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Jul 22 05:26:30 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 11:26:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Air con
In-Reply-To: <c74a5dde-bcab-71bc-2f54-f9b0f76bde61@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <d6d47cc3-eb48-a1da-4a57-1448959aa24d@gmail.com>
	<9794A7A1-DA17-40DE-87D7-DAF87130EF2B@btinternet.com>
	<c74a5dde-bcab-71bc-2f54-f9b0f76bde61@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <857F565D-692D-4208-9D48-8A66A0E1B78D@me.com>

When I took the picture of the mesh for my stone mullions, I moved a bowl of water out of shot. It's something I've done in hot weather ever since I rented a large villa in an inland village in southern Spain.  The villa had a small fountain within a hallway which had a largely pointless-looking tower at the other end.  I assumed that the tower was to encourage a natural airflow and the fountain was intended to cool the air by evaporation as it entered the hallway. 

It seemed to work well in Spain and also seems to work well in the UK, but a friend argues that the water increases the humidity which in turn reduces the effectiveness of your body sweating to cool down.  Based purely on empirical observations, I reckon it feels noticeably cooler and of course is cheap and silent to run. Keeping open windows upstairs and downstairs and on opposite sides of the house provides a natural draught most of the time and each window where it's practical to place a bowl of water has one.

I once did s programme where we visited a large farmhouse which was heated by a ground-sourced heat pump.  I was impressed at just how cold the water was before it was pumped into the soil to gain heat.  I suggested to the owner that as the heat pump was next to his pantry, he could pipe that cold water around the pantry to cool the contents and then have less need for refrigerated storage.  I got an email from him a few months later where he told me that he had got some stone shelves made with grooves underneath for the water pipes.  The upper shelves had widely spaced grooves, while the lower shelves had closer spacing to keep them cooler.  The whole room was insulated and the water flow was diverted by means of an thermostatically controlled valve. He called it his walk-in fridge. 

Alan Taylor



On 22 Jul 2021, at 22 Jul . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Really the best arrangement is to install underfloor pipework in all new houses. You can then use that for both heating and cooling, which is completely silent - not even the gurgling of radiator pipework (in copper, steel or kunifer).If you can organise a decent thermally driven airflow through a building, then bowls of water can provide a phenomenal level of cooling. A lot of Mediterranean and North African buildings used that system - often a small pool in a central courtyard -  and could provide levels of "aircon" that cost us ?10s a day and a terrible noise penalty.
> Chris Woolf
> 

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From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Jul 22 05:38:09 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (M E GILES)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 11:38:09 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Petition: Move the State Pension age back to 60 for
 both men & women
In-Reply-To: <45E520A8-6CD7-4393-B169-534531011407@gmail.com>
References: <5677BFE5-9210-4AF1-98DC-14D9719DEE3E@icloud.com>
	<45E520A8-6CD7-4393-B169-534531011407@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C025487-019E-4C4E-810E-2EA9BDEFC25B@mac.com>

Whilst I agree with Geoff that this has a snowball?s chance in hell of happening, certainly at 60, I am still perturbed by people of a certain age occupying jobs for which there are suitable younger candidates, so I agree with the principle of making it easier for people to stop working when they?ve reached ?maturity?. I believe that the difference between men?s and women?s state pension ages arose because most men were doing National Service, which delayed many from tying the knot, but in these days of equality, etc., etc.

Mike G


> On 22 Jul 2021, at 11:20, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I think whoever drew up that petition is chasing rainbows under the present economic situation and when as Paul says, life expectancy for the population in the western world has steadily increased over the last half century.
> Both men and women who are in good health are quite capable of carrying on working well into their sixties as I and others of our colleagues did and some continued into their seventies with enjoyment. It?s good for the self esteem too, to know that we are still valued by an employer in that way and not written off as past it.
> There are exceptions to this if the work is physically demanding or in cases like the police, though George Dixon was probably older than most when depicted as being still in office.
> Personally as one who is witnessing the devastation to the countryside in the Chiltern hills and valleys near to where I live as way is made for HS2, I and may others would like to see that scrapped. Realistically there?s fat chance of that as it?s gone too far already, though the inhabitants of tree houses I see along parts of the route won?t give up till they?re carried off by the panoply of security guards who stand silently facing them down day after day.
> I?m not sure what the target date is for the first trains to be running along it, or even any track installed as there?s lots more groundwork to be done before that, but if Crossrail is anything to go by, it?s more likely to be in the forties rather than the thirties and I?ll be unlikely to see it,
> 
> Geoff Hawkes
> 
>> On 22 Jul 2021, at 10:21, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?When first introduced back in 1908, the state pension age was 70. I think it was established as 65 for men and 60 for women in 1946. Company pensions could often have a lower age, as did the civil service.
>> 
>> As an aside I remember a talk on the BBC pension at Evesham. The guy doing the presentation mentioned that, in the engineering division, the fund paid out pensions for an average of 18 MONTHS after retirement. And this was retiring at 60!
>> 
>> Graeme Wall
>> 
>>> On 22 Jul 2021, at 09:24, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?As far as I know the age has never been 60 for men! 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Paul Thackray
>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>> +44 7802 243979
>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>    Original Message      
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Sent: 22 July 2021 00:21
>>> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Reply to: mibridge at mac.com
>>> Subject: [Tech1] Petition: Move the State Pension age back to 60 for both men & women
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ?I don?t think this counts as political (sorry if I am mistaken) but in view of our favoured status as ?baby boomers?, many of us, with all the benefits that that accident of birth brought us, it?s the least we can do for our offspring. Apologise to those not so blessed!
>>> 
>>> Mike G
>>> 
>>> https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/581736
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jul 22 08:11:06 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 14:11:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Petition: Move the State Pension age back to 60 for
 both men & women
In-Reply-To: <5677BFE5-9210-4AF1-98DC-14D9719DEE3E@icloud.com>
References: <gp99uohspjikelirtgjuseo8.1626942254069@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<5677BFE5-9210-4AF1-98DC-14D9719DEE3E@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <60f96e69.1c69fb81.36b56.d663@mx.google.com>

For various reasons, I retired at 60, in 2002. So I had to be circumspect with regard to expenditure for five years until the state pension was due at 65, in 2007.
My SERA annuities matured then, and life was more comfortable with a reasonable income.
Incidentally ? a word of warning ? if you happen to have a BBC pension still held, prior to maturing, make sure there?s a record of it. The Pensions advisor who set up my SERA?s, wondered if my BBC pension could be put to a better return, so sent me a list of questions, duly forwarded to the Corp. After months of waiting, a reply came back that ?since I had left before everything was computerised? there was no record of my contributions!
I sent copies of all the correspondence stipulating that the pension had been left in (in case of returning to the fold), and suggested that they took another look! Shortly after, a cheque for ?3K was produced, which got invested with the Prudential as a one-off single premium.
The fund of the SERA?s from four different companies (L&G, AXA,NPI & Pru), came to around ?92K and perming all the various companies, I eventually dumped everything with NPI, which is now Aviva.
Oh, and I could take a tax-free cash lump sum ? about ?25K which bought me a nice new motor to replace my 18 year old one!

Luckily, my flat mortgage was paid off some years ago, but if I did not own the roof over my head, I doubt that I could afford the monthly rental that these properties now command.
Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Graeme Wall via Tech1
Sent: 22 July 2021 10:20
To: Paul Thackray
Cc: Tech Ops
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Petition: Move the State Pension age back to 60 for bothmen & women

When first introduced back in 1908, the state pension age was 70. I think it was established as 65 for men and 60 for women in 1946. Company pensions could often have a lower age, as did the civil service.

As an aside I remember a talk on the BBC pension at Evesham. The guy doing the presentation mentioned that, in the engineering division, the fund paid out pensions for an average of 18 MONTHS after retirement. And this was retiring at 60!

Graeme Wall

> On 22 Jul 2021, at 09:24, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?As far as I know the age has never been 60 for men! 



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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 22 08:19:50 2021
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 14:19:50 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
Message-ID: <9BCD5F5B-1583-4B92-BAE7-ADF79E8CD44B@btinternet.com>

?
?
That?s merely a brief explanation of the RNLI?s position regarding migrants crossing the channel - presumably released following recent press coverage on this issue. 

I wondered if the RNLI have recently provided a similar statement offering an explanation which identifies the person/s responsible for making the decision to pay their chief executive ?160k salary & also to justify any reasons for not choosing to award this role to an unpaid volunteer (maybe a retired person?) who may already give financial donations/support to the RNLI. 

You might think it shouldn?t be impossible to find such a person to execute the chief executive?s role on a volunteer basis ?  I assume the role doesn?t even involve having to risk his/her own life at sea?

?160k pa is a Hell of a lot of money for any charity to pay to someone - I can?t help wondering what those kind-hearted volunteers might think?.like those who have stood outside on supermarket car parks in the cold & wet shaking money boxes collecting a few pounds worth of silver. 

Sorry to go on again.

Steve

> On 22 Jul 2021, at 08:36, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?
> Here?s an item from the RNLI newsletter, received today, which explains their policy for this occurrence.
> Our rescue work in the English Channel
> You may have seen news coverage or social media posts about our lifeboat crews going to the aid of migrants in the English Channel. As a supporter, it?s important you know that, wherever we believe there is a risk to life at sea, we will continue to launch to the rescue.
> 
> HM Coastguard and the Irish Coast Guard can request any of our lifeboats to launch to a search and rescue incident. Our lifeboats operate under international maritime law, which states we are permitted and indeed obligated to enter all waters for search and rescue purposes.
> 
> Once a rescue is complete, we hand over responsibility for migrant casualties to the UK Border Force and/or the police. The RNLI?s focus remains fixed on our core purpose: to save lives at sea, wherever those lives are in danger around our coasts, for whatever reason. And we can?t do that without your kind support, or the volunteers who answer the call. Those crews are working together in the south east of England to provide support for each other where needed. We thank them for continuing to preserve the lives of others without judgement, and for working together to ensure our 24/7 lifesaving service is ready to save every one we can.
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Alasdair Lawrance
> Sent: 17 July 2021 22:42
> To: patheigham
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI
>  
> Pat et al -
>  
> The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's latest immigration  crackdown bill goes through Parliament.
>  
> It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who are in need of assistance.
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
>  
>  
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Thu Jul 22 09:00:42 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 15:00:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <9BCD5F5B-1583-4B92-BAE7-ADF79E8CD44B@btinternet.com>
References: <9BCD5F5B-1583-4B92-BAE7-ADF79E8CD44B@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5c678c58-bc47-7388-4922-8b848b54cd17@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 22/07/2021 14:19, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
> ?
>
> I wondered if the RNLI have recently provided a similar statement 
> offering an explanation which identifies the person/s responsible for 
> making the decision to pay their chief executive ?160k salary.......
>
Sorry Steve,

?160k? is not a large salary nowadays for a chief executive with the 
knowledge and skill to manage an enterprise with a ?200M turnover, which 
is roughly what the RNLI is.? It could be lovely to have a volunteer but 
the chances of finding anyone with the right abilities are near enough 
zero. The job is a massive one with a need to control and have 
responsibility for ?700M annual funds. A much better paid, but wholly 
inadequate boss nearly killed the Co Op a few years back.

?160k may sound a lot to you but you could find quite a few senior 
consultants in the NHS with speciality roles being paid that, the many 
Pay Band 2 souls in the civil service, and a lot running private 
companies. The responsibility is massive - would you want to be the 
person who killed the RNLI and prevented any rescues?

Chris Woolf



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jul 22 09:05:31 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 15:05:31 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <9BCD5F5B-1583-4B92-BAE7-ADF79E8CD44B@btinternet.com>
References: <9BCD5F5B-1583-4B92-BAE7-ADF79E8CD44B@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <60f97b2a.1c69fb81.beda4.d93b@mx.google.com>

If anyone is interested, the 2020 filed accounts of RNLI are available to view via the Internet. I do not know enough to navigate the balance sheets, Someone else might be able to.

Perhaps it does show income of ?200M, but if that figure is overall wealth value, there would be entries for assets which would be values for their properties ? boat houses, vessels etc, which are not operating capital.
With over 230 Lifeboat Stations, the maintenance must be horrendous, not to mention the crews? kit. Here?s a breakdown:
https://rnli.org/support-us/how-your-support-helps/where-your-money-goes

If you happen to be a boaty sort, or even a sea swimmer/paddleboarder/windsurfer/kayaker, I?m sure that you would appreciate being rescued if it became necessary.
I?m happy to donate, but if the volunteer crews were to be paid, then I don?t think the service could survive.
Hazard a guess as to how much more it would cost.

Pat
(incidentally, it is unlawful to shake a collecting box, these days. Years ago, at Crufts, the Hearing Dogs for Deaf People had a stand, outside of which was a delightful Finnish Spitz, with a box on his saddleback, every time he shook himself, it rattled!)

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Steve Edwards
Sent: 22 July 2021 14:19
To: patheigham
Cc: Alasdair Lawrance; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI

?
?
That?s merely a brief explanation of the RNLI?s position regarding migrants crossing the channel - presumably released following recent press coverage on this issue.?

I wondered if the RNLI have recently provided a similar statement offering an explanation which identifies the person/s responsible for making the decision to pay their chief executive ?160k salary & also to justify any reasons for not choosing to award this role to an unpaid volunteer (maybe a retired person?) who may already give financial donations/support to the RNLI.?

You might think it shouldn?t be impossible to find such a person to execute the chief executive?s role on a volunteer basis ? ?I assume the role doesn?t even involve having to risk his/her own life at sea?

?160k pa is a Hell of a lot of money for any charity to pay to someone - I can?t help wondering what those kind-hearted volunteers might think?.like those who have stood outside on supermarket car parks in the cold & wet shaking money boxes collecting a few pounds worth of silver.?

Sorry to go on again.

Steve





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From davesound at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 22 09:20:27 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 15:20:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Air con
In-Reply-To: <9sltyCNxmGm3MLjDazESNu0rF4d9t2SiJsGRSLi71JvTlbIp3Ogz06poEqZZvNPaN3Ek0kfhPxtXP5JknhZzBwtAQ4OllI2epAsyUZTsKAk=@protonmai
References: <9sltyCNxmGm3MLjDazESNu0rF4d9t2SiJsGRSLi71JvTlbIp3Ogz06poEqZZvNPaN3Ek0kfhPxtXP5JknhZzBwtAQ4OllI2epAsyUZTsKAk=@protonmai
Message-ID: <59500ee4d6davesound@btinternet.com>

You've likely seen the answer in edit suites etc where they were built not
plumbed in to the building air-con, if it indeed has one. You site the
compressor and external heat exchanger as far away as possible - or sound
insulated. To get the cooled air into the room requires a large slow
turning fan to shift the volume needed - rather than a small fast noisy
one. All of which costs.


In article
<9sltyCNxmGm3MLjDazESNu0rF4d9t2SiJsGRSLi71JvTlbIp3Ogz06poEqZZvNPaN3Ek0kfhPxtXP5JknhZzBwtAQ4OllI2epAsyUZTsKAk=@protonmai,
   techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> With all this talk of plumbing and pipework, I suddenly wondered if any
> of you have an air con unit at home. When we lived in Chalfont St.
> Peter, one of our neighbours had air con in his lounge, but it was
> seriously noisy when running, and I think the noise would have made a
> good night's sleep difficult if it was necessary to run it during the
> night.

> So, any thoughts on keeping cool indoors during this weather
> (considering the possibility of more of the same in future years)?

> TeaTeaFN - Tony

> Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From david.plaice at googlemail.com  Thu Jul 22 09:49:31 2021
From: david.plaice at googlemail.com (David Plaice)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 15:49:31 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <9BCD5F5B-1583-4B92-BAE7-ADF79E8CD44B@btinternet.com>
References: <9BCD5F5B-1583-4B92-BAE7-ADF79E8CD44B@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CANssj35usTGkzWdNzqnsLH4tr7wCerCgOOg_GFg5d+AcZaqg-Q@mail.gmail.com>

This is certainly a contentious issue and the RNLI isn't even in the top
fifty, according to this article:
https://www.thirdsector.co.uk/charity-pay-study-2021-biggest-earners/management/article/1713966
.

Rank
Name of charity
Annual income
High-earner's salary
Number of staff paid >?60k
1 Wellcome Trust ?484.8m ?3.17m - ?3.18m 286
2 The London Clinic ?136.3m ?1.27m - ?1.28m 121
3 Consumers? Association ?100.5m ?825,000 144
4 The Royal Opera House ?141m ?794,591 141
5 The City & Guilds of London Institute ?142.6m ?690k - ?700k 196
6 Nuffield Health ?910m ?510k - ?520k 342
7 St Andrew?s Healthcare ?202m ?496,000 158
8 The Institution of Engineering and Technology ?61.8m ?414,061 50
9 The Francis Crick Institute ?146.6m ?380k - ?390k 147
10 The Children?s Investment Fund Foundation (UK) ?600.3m ?323,380 -
?333,740 33
11 The British Council ?1.2bn ?325k - ?330k 511
12 International Planned Parenthood Federation ?78.8m ?323,076 - ?330,769 50
13 The Royal Society ?98.3m ?320k - ?330k 23
14 Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine ?111.5m ?309,000 20
15 Marie Stopes International ?296m ?300,532 109
16 Genome Research ?135.3m ?290k - ?300k 62
17 Caudwell Children ?11.4m ?280k - ?290k 4
18 Peabody Trust ?608.9m ?278,750 230
19 Aqa Education ?166m ?270k - ?280k 79
20 The Girls? Day School Trust ?261m ?266,399 198
21 The Leverhulme Trust ?99.4m ?260k - ?270k 3
22 Church Commissioners for England ?167.3m ?264,000 50
23 The Royal Society of Chemistry ?63.5m ?240k - ?250k 41
24 Cancer Research UK ?634.4m ?244,000 188
25 Nursing And Midwifery Council ?88.0m ?237,118 9
Rank
Name of charity
Annual income
High-earner's salary
Number of staff paid >?60k
26 The Royal Shakespeare Company ?85.2m ?237,000 47
27 Thrombosis Research Institute ?18.1m ?230k - ?240k 5
28 The United Church Schools Trust ?105.3m ?230k - ?240k 84
29 General Medical Council ?112.5m ?230k - ?240k 114
30 United Church Schools Foundation ?357.7m ?230k - ?240k 236
31 Save the Children International ?981.9m* ?230,104 386
32 The Royal Horticultural Society ?95.9m ?220k - ?230k 40
33 The Woodard Corporation ?202.0m ?220k - ?230k 110
34 Canal & River Trust ?204.9m ?219,908 84
35 Jewish Care ?63.7m ?210k - ?220k 20
36 Fusion Lifestyle ?83.7m ?214,000 16
37 Turning Point ?127.9m ?210,000 50
38 Eton College ?73.4m ?200k - ?210k 148
39 Change, Grow, Live ?195.5m ?200k - ?210k 60
40 Oasis International Association ?593.3m ?200k - ?210k 102
41 The Extracare Charitable Trust ?95.5m ?202,390 12
42 CITB ?357.8m ?195k - 200k 19
43 The National Trust ?594.9m ?197,058 95
44 RSPCA ?140.9m ?190k - ?200k 30
45 The British Film Institute ?96.9m ?190k - ?195k 58
46 The Royal National Theatre ?107.8m ?180k - 190k 31
47 The Royal National Institute of Blind People ?118.7m ?180k - ?190k 30
48 Barnardo?s ?304.3m ?180k - ?190k 58
49 The Charities Aid Foundation ?597.8m ?180k - ?190k 35
50 Lloyd?s Register Foundation ?908.2m ?180k - ?190k 4

For methodology and analysis see the article.

Dave

On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 at 14:20, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> ?
> ?
> That?s merely a brief explanation of the RNLI?s position regarding
> migrants crossing the channel - presumably released following recent press
> coverage on this issue.
>
> I wondered if the RNLI have recently provided a similar statement offering
> an explanation which identifies the person/s responsible for making the
> decision to pay their chief executive ?160k salary & also to justify any
> reasons for not choosing to award this role to an unpaid volunteer (maybe a
> retired person?) who may already give financial donations/support to the
> RNLI.
>
> You might think it shouldn?t be impossible to find such a person to
> execute the chief executive?s role on a volunteer basis ?  I assume the
> role doesn?t even involve having to risk his/her own life at sea?
>
> ?160k pa is a Hell of a lot of money for any charity to pay to someone - I
> can?t help wondering what those kind-hearted volunteers might think?.like
> those who have stood outside on supermarket car parks in the cold & wet
> shaking money boxes collecting a few pounds worth of silver.
>
> Sorry to go on again.
>
> Steve
>
> On 22 Jul 2021, at 08:36, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> Here?s an item from the RNLI newsletter, received today, which explains
> their policy for this occurrence.
>
> *Our rescue work in the English Channel *
>
> You may have seen news coverage or social media posts about our lifeboat
> crews going to the aid of migrants in the English Channel. As a supporter,
> it?s important you know that, wherever we believe there is a risk to life
> at sea, we will continue to launch to the rescue.
>
> HM Coastguard and the Irish Coast Guard can request any of our lifeboats
> to launch to a search and rescue incident. Our lifeboats operate under
> international maritime law, which states we are permitted and indeed
> obligated to enter all waters for search and rescue purposes.
>
> Once a rescue is complete, we hand over responsibility for migrant
> casualties to the UK Border Force and/or the police. The RNLI?s focus
> remains fixed on our core purpose: to save lives at sea, wherever those
> lives are in danger around our coasts, for whatever reason. And we can?t do
> that without your kind support, or the volunteers who answer the call.
> Those crews are working together in the south east of England to provide
> support for each other where needed. We thank them for continuing to
> preserve the lives of others without judgement, and for working together to
> ensure our 24/7 lifesaving service is ready to save every one we can.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Alasdair Lawrance <alawrance1 at me.com>
> *Sent: *17 July 2021 22:42
> *To: *patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>
> *Cc: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] RNLI
>
>
>
> Pat et al -
>
>
>
> The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's
> latest immigration  crackdown bill goes through Parliament.
>
>
>
> It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could
> be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who
> are in need of assistance.
>
> Alasdair Lawrance
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>
> <#m_-3764002603064065381_m_6410472711000482891_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 22 13:12:57 2021
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 19:12:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <CANssj35usTGkzWdNzqnsLH4tr7wCerCgOOg_GFg5d+AcZaqg-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANssj35usTGkzWdNzqnsLH4tr7wCerCgOOg_GFg5d+AcZaqg-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D035FC86-A143-4DB3-8E5F-733A27502849@btinternet.com>

David - thanks sending this information - pretty shocking but not really any surprise to me.  

In response to the point Chris made: Comparing the overpaid with the overpaid doesn?t give a fair picture. This is a ?Charity? remember. Whether you think the chief exec is a bargain or a rip off to RNLI funds isn?t really my point: - I might then argue Captain Birdseye could be paid less amd possibly bringing in more revenue from royalties on sales of fish fingers. 

My point was to highlight that the RNLI dish out ?160 k of donations to the ?pilot of the ship? whilst those risking their lives working aboard get ?nout. 

In my opinion, giving to any charity is a personal thing and we should not be expected or made to feel as though we may have to donate just because we?ve been asked or someone makes a plea on their behalf etc. 

I work hard outside in all weathers for my money (less than ?160k ! ) and wouldn?t wish to see any of my money being squandered away by others spending other people?s money wherever they want and on whatever they like. 

Generally legacies to charities in Wills include the wording ?for general purposes? or ?with the wish that the monies are used for? a specific project - but remember that this is ?with the wish? & is not legally binding. 

Therefore the problem is once you?ve handed it over charities and trusts can do whatever they bloody well like with your dosh ???! 

Steve
PS Nobody has yet responded to my previous request of lending me a tenner - I need a new pair of trunks !




> On 22 Jul 2021, at 15:50, David Plaice <david.plaice at googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> This is certainly a contentious issue and the RNLI isn't even in the top fifty, according to this article: https://www.thirdsector.co.uk/charity-pay-study-2021-biggest-earners/management/article/1713966.
> 
> Rank	
> Name of charity	
> Annual income	
> High-earner's salary	
> Number of staff paid >?60k
> 1	Wellcome Trust	?484.8m	?3.17m - ?3.18m	286
> 2	The London Clinic	?136.3m	?1.27m - ?1.28m	121
> 3	Consumers? Association	?100.5m	?825,000	144
> 4	The Royal Opera House	?141m	?794,591	141
> 5	The City & Guilds of London Institute	?142.6m	?690k - ?700k	196
> 6	Nuffield Health	?910m	?510k - ?520k	342
> 7	St Andrew?s Healthcare	?202m	?496,000	158
> 8	The Institution of Engineering and Technology	?61.8m	?414,061	50
> 9	The Francis Crick Institute	?146.6m	?380k - ?390k	147
> 10	The Children?s Investment Fund Foundation (UK)	?600.3m	?323,380 - ?333,740	33
> 11	The British Council	?1.2bn	?325k - ?330k	511
> 12	International Planned Parenthood Federation	?78.8m	?323,076 - ?330,769	50
> 13	The Royal Society	?98.3m	?320k - ?330k	23
> 14	Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine	?111.5m	?309,000	20
> 15	Marie Stopes International	?296m	?300,532	109
> 16	Genome Research	?135.3m	?290k - ?300k	62
> 17	Caudwell Children	?11.4m	?280k - ?290k	4
> 18	Peabody Trust	?608.9m	?278,750	230
> 19	Aqa Education	?166m	?270k - ?280k	79
> 20	The Girls? Day School Trust	?261m	?266,399	198
> 21	The Leverhulme Trust	?99.4m	?260k - ?270k	3
> 22	Church Commissioners for England	?167.3m	?264,000	50
> 23	The Royal Society of Chemistry	?63.5m	?240k - ?250k	41
> 24	Cancer Research UK	?634.4m	?244,000	188
> 25	Nursing And Midwifery Council	?88.0m	?237,118	9
> Rank	
> Name of charity	
> Annual income	
> High-earner's salary	
> Number of staff paid >?60k
> 26	The Royal Shakespeare Company	?85.2m	?237,000	47
> 27	Thrombosis Research Institute	?18.1m	?230k - ?240k	5
> 28	The United Church Schools Trust	?105.3m	?230k - ?240k	84
> 29	General Medical Council	?112.5m	?230k - ?240k	114
> 30	United Church Schools Foundation	?357.7m	?230k - ?240k	236
> 31	Save the Children International	?981.9m*	?230,104	386
> 32	The Royal Horticultural Society	?95.9m	?220k - ?230k	40
> 33	The Woodard Corporation	?202.0m	?220k - ?230k	110
> 34	Canal & River Trust	?204.9m	?219,908	84
> 35	Jewish Care	?63.7m	?210k - ?220k	20
> 36	Fusion Lifestyle	?83.7m	?214,000	16
> 37	Turning Point	?127.9m	?210,000	50
> 38	Eton College	?73.4m	?200k - ?210k	148
> 39	Change, Grow, Live	?195.5m	?200k - ?210k	60
> 40	Oasis International Association	?593.3m	?200k - ?210k	102
> 41	The Extracare Charitable Trust	?95.5m	?202,390	12
> 42	CITB	?357.8m	?195k - 200k	19
> 43	The National Trust	?594.9m	?197,058	95
> 44	RSPCA	?140.9m	?190k - ?200k	30
> 45	The British Film Institute	?96.9m	?190k - ?195k	58
> 46	The Royal National Theatre	?107.8m	?180k - 190k	31
> 47	The Royal National Institute of Blind People	?118.7m	?180k - ?190k	30
> 48	Barnardo?s	?304.3m	?180k - ?190k	58
> 49	The Charities Aid Foundation	?597.8m	?180k - ?190k	35
> 50	Lloyd?s Register Foundation	?908.2m	?180k - ?190k	4
> 
> For methodology and analysis see the article.
> 
> Dave
> 
>> On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 at 14:20, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> ?
>> ?
>> That?s merely a brief explanation of the RNLI?s position regarding migrants crossing the channel - presumably released following recent press coverage on this issue. 
>> 
>> I wondered if the RNLI have recently provided a similar statement offering an explanation which identifies the person/s responsible for making the decision to pay their chief executive ?160k salary & also to justify any reasons for not choosing to award this role to an unpaid volunteer (maybe a retired person?) who may already give financial donations/support to the RNLI. 
>> 
>> You might think it shouldn?t be impossible to find such a person to execute the chief executive?s role on a volunteer basis ?  I assume the role doesn?t even involve having to risk his/her own life at sea?
>> 
>> ?160k pa is a Hell of a lot of money for any charity to pay to someone - I can?t help wondering what those kind-hearted volunteers might think?.like those who have stood outside on supermarket car parks in the cold & wet shaking money boxes collecting a few pounds worth of silver. 
>> 
>> Sorry to go on again.
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>>>> On 22 Jul 2021, at 08:36, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ?
>>> Here?s an item from the RNLI newsletter, received today, which explains their policy for this occurrence.
>>> 
>>> Our rescue work in the English Channel
>>> 
>>> You may have seen news coverage or social media posts about our lifeboat crews going to the aid of migrants in the English Channel. As a supporter, it?s important you know that, wherever we believe there is a risk to life at sea, we will continue to launch to the rescue.
>>> 
>>> HM Coastguard and the Irish Coast Guard can request any of our lifeboats to launch to a search and rescue incident. Our lifeboats operate under international maritime law, which states we are permitted and indeed obligated to enter all waters for search and rescue purposes.
>>> 
>>> Once a rescue is complete, we hand over responsibility for migrant casualties to the UK Border Force and/or the police. The RNLI?s focus remains fixed on our core purpose: to save lives at sea, wherever those lives are in danger around our coasts, for whatever reason. And we can?t do that without your kind support, or the volunteers who answer the call. Those crews are working together in the south east of England to provide support for each other where needed. We thank them for continuing to preserve the lives of others without judgement, and for working together to ensure our 24/7 lifesaving service is ready to save every one we can.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: Alasdair Lawrance
>>> Sent: 17 July 2021 22:42
>>> To: patheigham
>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Pat et al -
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> The RNLI may shortly be needing more than just donations if Priti Patel's latest immigration  crackdown bill goes through Parliament.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> It is allegedly so badly drafted that an organisation like the RNLI could be committing an offence by rescuing people in, say, an inflatable boat who are in need of assistance.
>>> 
>>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  	
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jul 22 13:27:11 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 19:27:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <D035FC86-A143-4DB3-8E5F-733A27502849@btinternet.com>
References: <CANssj35usTGkzWdNzqnsLH4tr7wCerCgOOg_GFg5d+AcZaqg-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<D035FC86-A143-4DB3-8E5F-733A27502849@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <60f9b87e.1c69fb81.8d41c.ef4b@mx.google.com>

I can recommend a hotel in Antigua which has a beach on which you do not have to wear trunks!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Steve Edwards via Tech1
Sent: 22 July 2021 19:13
To: David Plaice
Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI


Steve
PS Nobody has yet responded to my previous request of lending me a tenner - I need a new pair of trunks !








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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jul 22 13:34:24 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2021 19:34:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <5c678c58-bc47-7388-4922-8b848b54cd17@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <9BCD5F5B-1583-4B92-BAE7-ADF79E8CD44B@btinternet.com>
	<5c678c58-bc47-7388-4922-8b848b54cd17@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <60f9ba2f.1c69fb81.92d5b.3cc6@mx.google.com>

What nobody seems to have spotted, is the ?160K his take home pay? ? I would think not.
The tax on up to ?150K is at 40%, over that is 45%.
So Gov.uk is collaring quite a bit, thanks to RNLI,  which goes to help us all. (as they would have it!) Or am I being a bit ingenuous?
Pat



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Chris Woolf via Tech1
Sent: 22 July 2021 15:01
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI


On 22/07/2021 14:19, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
> ?
>
> I wondered if the RNLI have recently provided a similar statement 
> offering an explanation which identifies the person/s responsible for 
> making the decision to pay their chief executive ?160k salary.......
>
Sorry Steve,

?160k? is not a large salary nowadays for a chief executive with the 
knowledge and skill to manage an enterprise with a ?200M turnover, which 
is roughly what the RNLI is.? It could be lovely to have a volunteer but 
the chances of finding anyone with the right abilities are near enough 
zero. The job is a massive one with a need to control and have 
responsibility for ?700M annual funds. A much better paid, but wholly 
inadequate boss nearly killed the Co Op a few years back.

?160k may sound a lot to you but you could find quite a few senior 
consultants in the NHS with speciality roles being paid that, the many 
Pay Band 2 souls in the civil service, and a lot running private 
companies. The responsibility is massive - would you want to be the 
person who killed the RNLI and prevented any rescues?

Chris Woolf






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From relong at btinternet.com  Fri Jul 23 03:54:29 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 09:54:29 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Air con
In-Reply-To: <c74a5dde-bcab-71bc-2f54-f9b0f76bde61@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <d6d47cc3-eb48-a1da-4a57-1448959aa24d@gmail.com>
	<9794A7A1-DA17-40DE-87D7-DAF87130EF2B@btinternet.com>
	<c74a5dde-bcab-71bc-2f54-f9b0f76bde61@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <DE0FE916-8191-4490-AFD7-5FBBC64E818C@btinternet.com>

Sorry Chris
I thought you knew we lived in the Daily Mail ?House of the Year 1760? at the Ideal Cottage Show in Olympia.
Things have moved on from the Peasants Revolt  of 1520, we don?t keep the pig in the lounge any more, it now hangs in the kitchen.
Roger

> On 22 Jul 2021, at 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> On 21/07/2021 23:26, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>> We live in a thick walled stone cottage from 1760.
> Oh Roger, I didn't realise you lived in a *modern* house! Mine's nearer 1520;}
> 
> But, yes, in those days they understood a lot about large thermal masses and energy-efficient cooling. Nothing beats slate floors.
> 
> Really the best arrangement is to install underfloor pipework in all new houses. You can then use that for both heating and cooling, which is completely silent - not even the gurgling of radiator pipework (in copper, steel or kunifer). 
> 
> If you can organise a decent thermally driven airflow through a building, then bowls of water can provide a phenomenal level of cooling. A lot of Mediterranean and North African buildings used that system - often a small pool in a central courtyard -  and could provide levels of "aircon" that cost us ?10s a day and a terrible noise penalty.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> 
>> The southwest face gets to high 30s ,we open front and back doors , and the temperature differential drives a cooling  breeze through the ground floors.
>> The best airco I have ever experienced  , silent and cool.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 21 Jul 2021, at 22:54, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ? Long ago I bought a portable aircon machine for my young son's bedroom, which is on the sunny corner of the house and doesn't have good ventilation. 
>>> 
>>> Twenty years on, it's here behind me in my small "office", with the tube stuck out the window. It's the only room in the house where it's comfortable to be, though it's jolly noisy.  In a few days it will go back into it's corner till next year.
>>> 
>>> B
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 21/07/2021 21:30, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> With all this talk of plumbing and pipework, I suddenly wondered if any of you have an air con unit at home. When we lived in Chalfont St. Peter, one of our neighbours had air con in his lounge, but it was seriously noisy when running, and I think the noise would have made a good night's sleep difficult if it was necessary to run it during the night.
>>>> 
>>>> So, any thoughts on keeping cool indoors during this weather (considering the possibility of more of the same in future years)?
>>>> 
>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>> 
>>>> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>> 
> 
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Fri Jul 23 04:31:05 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 10:31:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Air con
In-Reply-To: <DE0FE916-8191-4490-AFD7-5FBBC64E818C@btinternet.com>
References: <d6d47cc3-eb48-a1da-4a57-1448959aa24d@gmail.com>
	<9794A7A1-DA17-40DE-87D7-DAF87130EF2B@btinternet.com>
	<c74a5dde-bcab-71bc-2f54-f9b0f76bde61@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<DE0FE916-8191-4490-AFD7-5FBBC64E818C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <9fdb5870-4bf2-8175-5304-cc6af68144a2@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Ideal Cottage Show - now there's an opportunity!

Glad the pig's hanging up - brined or dry cure;} I'll come and share 
sausages!

Mind you a second Peasant's Revolt wouldn't go amiss, given the current 
political mess...

Chris


On 23/07/2021 09:54, Roger E Long wrote:
> Sorry Chris
> I thought you knew we lived in the Daily Mail ?House of the Year 1760? 
> at the Ideal Cottage Show in Olympia.
> Things have moved on from the Peasants Revolt ?of 1520, we don?t keep 
> the pig in the lounge any more, it now hangs in the kitchen.
> Roger
>
>> On 22 Jul 2021, at 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
>> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 21/07/2021 23:26, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>>> We live in a thick walled stone cottage from 1760.
>>
>> Oh Roger, I didn't realise you lived in a *modern* house! Mine's 
>> nearer 1520;}
>>
>> But, yes, in those days they understood a lot about large thermal 
>> masses and energy-efficient cooling. Nothing beats slate floors.
>>
>> Really the best arrangement is to install underfloor pipework in all 
>> new houses. You can then use that for both heating and cooling, which 
>> is completely silent - not even the gurgling of radiator pipework (in 
>> copper, steel or kunifer).
>>
>> If you can organise a decent thermally driven airflow through a 
>> building, then bowls of water can provide a phenomenal level of 
>> cooling. A lot of Mediterranean and North African buildings used that 
>> system - often a small pool in a central courtyard -? and could 
>> provide levels of "aircon" that cost us ?10s a day and a terrible 
>> noise penalty.
>>
>> Chris Woolf
>>
>>
>>> The southwest face gets to high 30s ,we open front and back doors , 
>>> and the temperature differential drives a cooling ?breeze through 
>>> the ground floors.
>>> The best airco I have ever experienced ?, silent and cool.
>>>
>>> Roger
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On 21 Jul 2021, at 22:54, Bernard Newnham via 
>>>> Tech1<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?Long ago I bought a portable aircon machine for my young son's 
>>>> bedroom, which is on the sunny corner of the house and doesn't have 
>>>> good ventilation.
>>>>
>>>> Twenty years on, it's here behind me in my small "office", with the 
>>>> tube stuck out the window. It's the only room in the house where 
>>>> it's comfortable to be, though it's jolly noisy.? In a few days it 
>>>> will go back into it's corner till next year.
>>>>
>>>> B
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 21/07/2021 21:30, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> With all this talk of plumbing and pipework, I suddenly wondered 
>>>>> if any of you have an air con unit at home. When we lived in 
>>>>> Chalfont St. Peter, one of our neighbours had air con in his 
>>>>> lounge, but it was seriously noisy when running, and I think the 
>>>>> noise would have made a good night's sleep difficult if it was 
>>>>> necessary to run it during the night.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, any thoughts on keeping cool indoors during this weather 
>>>>> (considering the possibility of more of the same in future years)?
>>>>>
>>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent withProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/>Secure Email.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>
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>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
>> <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>


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From apts at apts.org.uk  Fri Jul 23 06:40:48 2021
From: apts at apts.org.uk (Alexandra Palace Television Society)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 12:40:48 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman
Message-ID: <EFC165DA-2F92-4A74-B86F-12916532CD9B@apts.org.uk>

My apologies for not replying sooner to this thread, but I have been waiting for an email from Australia where I have tracked down the lady featured in the photograph I shared a couple of weeks ago.

 

The lady in question is Molly Brownless, (nee Heritage, then Frood), and she was operating the camera in the original photograph!? She was at AP before from April 1946 and was operating an Emitron on the re-opening day!? I?ve been corresponding with Eileen, Molly?s daughter, who was with her the day she received my email ? Molly remembers working on the ballet and has a great recall of her days working at AP.? Molly is now 101, loving life and is constantly busy.?? After emigrating to Australia in 1951 she was a pioneer with Australian television when it was established and went on to have an important career within the industry.

 

Dr Jeannine Baker (who I give total credit for identifying Molly) has recorded a long interview with her, over three consecutive days.? Jeannine has recently given a talk to an Australian conference on Molly career and it will be featured on a new website for the National Film and Sound Archive of Australia.? She is also working on a book about women and technology in television covering the UK and Australia.

 

So, it would appear the first female camera operator was Molly Brownless ? she was at AP on re-opening day in June 1946 and was on her camera during the afternoon transmission.

 

I have attached some photographs of Molly when at AP in 1946, as well of some celebrating her 101st birthday.

 

Here are Molly?s memories of being at Alexandra Palace:

 

It was the beginning of April when we went to Alexandra Palace.? From them on we spent all our time trying to pick up whatever we could from people who were around, who were far too frantic to be doing much about our training.? And the girls were looked at somewhat aghast by those who were supposed to be giving what information they could.? I suppose we more or less gravitated towards the things that seemed to interest us mostly.? Audrey and Joan were happy enough on GRAMS, Isobel hung around Studio B watching whatever was going on in, as well us on the upstairs desk to see what she could pick up there.? Rachel was, as far as I remember, from the beginning in Studio A.?? 

 

Before we actually reopened Alexandra Palace, in June 1946, there were seven girls on each shift.? First of all, when we started off, everyone was on days, and I didn?t really get to know the people then.? Everyone was working, or not working (as the case may be), hanging around the place trying to pick up what information they could.? I knew them by name, and you obviously got to know them properly later on when the shifts were changed around and so forth, but all the time I was there, there were just two shifts and we worked alternate days and even when one arranged a shift-swap, one didn?t see the person one swapped with because, well, they weren?t there when you were there - even though you could do that arranging.? 

 

The thing I seem to remember that made our life rather tedious at times was operating the switchboard.? It was up a little wooden ladder, going out of Maintenance at the back of A RACKS.? I think they put us up there to get us out from under their feet.? This little switchboard had very little capability - just two lines and Studio A, Studio B, RACKS, and I?ve forgotten who else was on that switchboard, but only a few.? If more than two people wanted to be connected at a time, it was not possible.? Anyway, we all had to cover it and I seemed to be on it whenever I wasn?t on the camera in the early days.?? We also covered CCR at times and writing up the Log Book with timings.? I think I only did GRAMS about two or three times in all the years I was there.? I wasn?t very good at it; I somehow didn?t have the feel for it that some of the girls who came from recording did.? I?d been used to dealing with big pieces of equipment at Droitwich.? Somehow, I don?t know, those small pieces of equipment didn?t come easily to me. ?I was fascinated by the cameras right from the beginning.

 

I remember a chap called George Rose who had been a pre-war vision mixer - when it was all blokes.? He was the only one who told any of us anything about vision mixing, as such.? Otherwise, we just picked it up by watching whatever went on.? When more of the girls came (and I can?t remember how long it was after the service reopened), but it was probably getting on for a year afterwards - we had somebody allocated to telecine.? You had to clean all those mirrors on the Mechau projectors - thirty-two, if I remember rightly ? (but I am not absolutely certain about that).? Occasionally, I remember having to operate the projector in the film unit downstairs.? This was where the new telecine was installed when it came, which Gordon Waters took over ? that was not long before I left.? I occasionally did Sound Floor, you know, shoving in a microphone either above or below on a stand - above or below the camera ? but, mostly, I did camerawork to begin with and, of course, that was my delight. 

 

I started on cameras right from the first day ? the first day we put out a programme which was the day before the Victory Parade, which was a Friday, and it was the afternoon session in Studio B.? I was on Camera 3 (I was mostly on three whichever studio I was in) and so I didn?t, at that time, know very much about Ted Langley who was senior cameraman in Studio A, as Frank Cresswell was the senior camera man in Studio B.? The ?iron man? was not really moveable except when your camera was not ?on air?.? You could move the camera around obviously, but it was fairly heavy to move whilst you were actually on air.? You could push it with one foot as long as you kept your balance with the other one.? But the distance was only a matter of how far your legs would stretch and still keep your balance and keep control.? 

 

I was on that ?iron man? the day the service reopened.? I didn?t realise (in my na?ve way), that I was actually going to do the transmission.? I?d being doing the rehearsal, but I hadn?t sort of twigged that having done the rehearsal, I would necessarily do the transmission.? I thought that all these chaps that were dashing around being very, very, important were going to take over the camera and do it on the transmission and I was absolutely vapped when I found that I was doing it!? The next day it was the Outside Broadcast of the Victory Parade, while I was in the studio working on ?The Squadronnaires? (featuring Harry Lewis, Dame Vera Lynn?s husband).? That was a great time. 

 

Now, lining up cameras ? that was a daily chore.? Each camera operator took it in turns to line-up their camera, starting with camera 1.? I was usually on either camera 3 or 4, so usually it was after morning tea before I got to line up my camera.? We pointed the camera at a chart, and it went on from there.? RACKS guided you as to what they saw on their screen, and you marked on your glass screen exactly where the picture limits were for that particular camera.? You went slightly beyond this limit, so you could see the boom microphone coming in from the top or something coming in from the sides before it got in shot.? We also had to watch out for getting a beam from one of the studio lights light in picture - it used to kill the camera.? There used to be a burning smell and the camera had to have a new tube. 

 

We used to see a direct picture in the viewfinder.? The camera had two lenses, a lens which went straight to the camera and a lens to the side of it which gave the camera operator the same picture but, being a lens, it inverted it ? it was upside down and back to front.? You quickly learned to look at the picture and quickly balance it and go with the movement in the opposite direction to where you would expect to be going looking at the picture!? There was something else we had to worry about too and that was the power lags on the two lenses.? The one that went through to the camera was dead straight on, but the one on the side, of course, to keep on the same picture, had to come at a slight angle from the other one so your picture composition might not be exactly the same as the main camera.? So, you had to do a little bit of adjustment on that one too. 

 

At the end of transmission, we had to wheel our cameras to the side of the studio and coil up the cables so that the floor of the studio was left clear, ready to build the sets for the next day?s programme.? It was a matter of honour that you didn?t leave the place looking a mess.? Ted Langley and Ben Blooman were very keen on this, so we had to watch ourselves and make sure everything was just so.

 

Now it was after Bimbi Harris came and I?d being doing camerawork for quite some time, and she wanted to do that - I?m not surprised, I thoroughly enjoyed it and didn?t see why she wouldn?t want too!? One day a reporter came from a television magazine and found out about there being a ?cameraman? who was female or maybe he found out about two, I?m not quite sure.? Henry Whiting told me that they wanted to do a publicity picture of me on a camera and I was rather tickled at the idea, as you can imagine.? I was actually in Studio A the day the reporter arrived ? working on a show.? At the end of the programme, I tried to find this photographer only to discover that Bimbi had already been photographed on Camera 2, which was the Crab!? I can understand why he would have taken her because she would certainly have taken a better picture than I would have done.? But, because she was photographed on a tracking camera and because she wasn?t the first female operator, the blokes were a bit peeved.? Bimbi hadn?t been at the Palace very long and I had been there for a few years at that point, they didn?t think she should have appeared on the tracking camera which, of course, is not one she would have operated, and they thought it should have been me.

 

Now the next thing that happened which was why I and Bimbi came off cameras ?was due to the fact that the camera men wanted to get themselves a higher grade and they were trying to upgrade their pay in relation to the other operators around ? it was a very specialised job!? All the cameramen, as far as I know, including me, belonged to the Association of Senior Technicians, and they were expecting this Association to back their claim.? The Association didn?t like me being one of the camera crew because if I could do it then, obviously, it wasn?t such a very skilled job after all.? Henry, to avoid any splitting up of the blokes in the studio I presume, told me that I wouldn?t be able to do camerawork anymore.? 

 

I think everybody was a TA1 when went to Alexandra Palace, but I can?t remember it being stated as a requisite.? However, when we had been there some time a lot of chaps came out of the Forces, they had not necessarily been in the BBC before the War.? The BBC insisted those who were TA1?s would be B Grade.? Up until that time, the difference between operators and engineers had been an exam to get the status of B Grade, but they shifted it up a peg to C, so the exam was between D Grade and C, and that was the start of what became qualified ?Engineers? as opposed to us ?Operators?.? We were all still in the Engineering Division, but on different grades.? It meant an increase in salary, but not, if I remember correctly very much, and certainly not backdated so it wasn?t quite so startling.? 

 

I remember that somebody on the other shift was actually working quite hard to take the exam.? Bertie Baker, stated quite categorically that no female, even if they passed the exam, would be given a C Grade job, so we could pass the exam if we wanted too but we would still be B Grade.? And so, somewhat to my relief and certainly to the disgust of a number of people, who felt they should have had the same opportunity as the rest did, simmer down. I stayed on B Grade until I left. ??Well, as you can imagine, I was pretty peeved about that, not just peeved, I was downright sick about the whole thing.? I don?t know who told Bimbi, it might have been Henry ? but, like me, she just wasn?t rostered on cameras again.? Anyway, that was my end of women operating cameras.? Henry decided that because I had been so disappointed about coming off cameras - he thought well, okay she can do some vision mixing and I went virtually from the floor on cameras to vision mixing most of the time.? 

 

When I got round to Vision Mixing we weren?t able to cut, we were only able to fade up and fade out.? A mix was achieved by bringing the fader up onto the first stop, waiting, and then turning it full up whenever we wanted it.? Because of the delay on the picture coming up, we couldn?t just bring one in and take one out as quickly as that without a bit of wind-up to begin with!? They were beautiful knobs, you know, you grasped them, and they filled your hand ? you knew you?d got hold of them.? Underneath each fader was a little pushbutton which queued up the next picture that RACKS was supposed to put on the preview channel for us in the Gallery.? In those days there were only two screens in the studio galleries - one was the transmitted picture and the one that RACKS put up on preview whichever that happened to be.? When you had a quick sequence, you had to yell down to RACKS to be able to bring the preview channel up quickly for you, otherwise, you?d be fading up channels without actually having seen them first! 

 

For gardening programmes when we used to run a cable from Studio A, out over the balcony, down the front of the building and through a channel underneath the road to the garden on the other side of the road where Fred Streeter would do his programme.? We were always wondering if there was something he was going to hold that would have to be bought back in the studio.? This was always left until the last minute, someone would start taking it back, only to find it was needed back with Fred, and they had to bring it back quickly.? I didn?t do the camera work on the gardening programmes, but I did a lot of cable hauling.? On those days they used to stop the buses using anywhere in the park.? We had to have our badges to get through Alexandra Park and everybody else was kept out except for the buses - but the buses weren?t allowed to stop on their way through.?? 

 

I remember we were bored a lot of the time, but somehow or other the whole thing seemed to be absolutely joyous.? We were all enthusiastic, we were all keen on doing the thing we were doing ? we didn?t care what we did particularly, as long as we were involved, and involved we certainly got ourselves!

 

The ?Dive? used to be absolutely beautiful in Spring when all the cherry blossom trees were in bloom.? With hindsight it was really and truly rather a dive!? It?s just that it was there, it was convenient and you could go over there just before the evening transmission and, ahh well . . . . it was a place to relax! 

 

I hope the above has been of interest.

 

Many thanks

 

Simon

 

 

Simon Vaughan

Archivist

for and on behalf of

Alexandra Palace Television Society

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tel:        +44 (0) 1332 729358

Mob:   ? +44 (0) 7791 780882

E-mail:  apts at apts.org.uk

Web:   ? www.apts.org.uk

               www.youtube.com/aptsarchive

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Alexandra Palace Television Society is a not-for-profit organisation, dedicated to preserving for present and future generations, the oral and written history of the pioneers who inaugurated the world's first regular public high-definition television service from Alexandra Palace, north London, in 1936.

 

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.  If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the system manager: postmaster at apts.org.uk

 

 

 

From: Alec Bray <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 10:00
To: Simon Vaughan <simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com>
Cc: APTS Archivist <apts at apts.org.uk>, Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female camerawoman?

 

Hi Simon,

Thank you very much for the photos of the Emitron Cameras!  Thanks, too, for the explanation of the horizontal "bar". As I mentioned, I had not seen any photos of the original Emitrons with lens hoods - that front-on view is an interesting photo in its own right.  And I certainly did not release how many different "design iterations" there were for those early Emitrons  and I can see why you thought that she might be operating the camera!!

I have had another go at photo-manipulation.  The vertical cable seems to come from the bottom of the camera (viewfinder) and not from the lady's hand.

The lady is wearing a bangle or a bangle which incorporates a wristwatch - it is clearer in some manipulations as to how the light is reflected.

          

Do we see the face of the watch in the photo where the lady is barely seen?

 

Anyway, it seems that the lady in question is doing  "something" with something near to or attached to the camera:  it seems to be a smallish knob.or cylindrical object, perhaps mounted on a rectangular plinth sticking out from the side of the camera - tricky to see in the shadows.

 

 

I hope that this is of interest!  I have reached the limit of what I can do to separate out the grey scale at this area.

A very intriguing picture, Simon - and with your photos of original Emitrons in various configurations you may be able to say what the lady is doing!
-- 
=======
 
Alec Bray
 
alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:? 07789 561 346
Tel:? 0118 981 7502
 

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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Fri Jul 23 07:47:39 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 13:47:39 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman
In-Reply-To: <EFC165DA-2F92-4A74-B86F-12916532CD9B@apts.org.uk>
References: <EFC165DA-2F92-4A74-B86F-12916532CD9B@apts.org.uk>
Message-ID: <7C8EC20F-FC39-4DF4-9806-F731330F8C4B@icloud.com>

Many thanks for posting that Alec. Absolutey fascinating to read. Perhaps the GTC should offer her honary membership!
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 23 Jul 2021, at 12:40, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> My apologies for not replying sooner to this thread, but I have been waiting for an email from Australia where I have tracked down the lady featured in the photograph I shared a couple of weeks ago.
>  
> The lady in question is Molly Brownless, (nee Heritage, then Frood), and she was operating the camera in the original photograph!  She was at AP before from April 1946 and was operating an Emitron on the re-opening day!  I?ve been corresponding with Eileen, Molly?s daughter, who was with her the day she received my email ? Molly remembers working on the ballet and has a great recall of her days working at AP.  Molly is now 101, loving life and is constantly busy.   After emigrating to Australia in 1951 she was a pioneer with Australian television when it was established and went on to have an important career within the industry.
>  
> Dr Jeannine Baker (who I give total credit for identifying Molly) has recorded a long interview with her, over three consecutive days.  Jeannine has recently given a talk to an Australian conference on Molly career and it will be featured on a new website for the National Film and Sound Archive of Australia.  She is also working on a book about women and technology in television covering the UK and Australia.
>  
> So, it would appear the first female camera operator was Molly Brownless ? she was at AP on re-opening day in June 1946 and was on her camera during the afternoon transmission.
>  
> I have attached some photographs of Molly when at AP in 1946, as well of some celebrating her 101st birthday.
>  
> Here are Molly?s memories of being at Alexandra Palace:
>  
> It was the beginning of April when we went to Alexandra Palace.  From them on we spent all our time trying to pick up whatever we could from people who were around, who were far too frantic to be doing much about our training.  And the girls were looked at somewhat aghast by those who were supposed to be giving what information they could.  I suppose we more or less gravitated towards the things that seemed to interest us mostly.  Audrey and Joan were happy enough on GRAMS, Isobel hung around Studio B watching whatever was going on in, as well us on the upstairs desk to see what she could pick up there.  Rachel was, as far as I remember, from the beginning in Studio A.   
>  
> Before we actually reopened Alexandra Palace, in June 1946, there were seven girls on each shift.  First of all, when we started off, everyone was on days, and I didn?t really get to know the people then.  Everyone was working, or not working (as the case may be), hanging around the place trying to pick up what information they could.  I knew them by name, and you obviously got to know them properly later on when the shifts were changed around and so forth, but all the time I was there, there were just two shifts and we worked alternate days and even when one arranged a shift-swap, one didn?t see the person one swapped with because, well, they weren?t there when you were there - even though you could do that arranging.  
>  
> The thing I seem to remember that made our life rather tedious at times was operating the switchboard.  It was up a little wooden ladder, going out of Maintenance at the back of A RACKS.  I think they put us up there to get us out from under their feet.  This little switchboard had very little capability - just two lines and Studio A, Studio B, RACKS, and I?ve forgotten who else was on that switchboard, but only a few.  If more than two people wanted to be connected at a time, it was not possible.  Anyway, we all had to cover it and I seemed to be on it whenever I wasn?t on the camera in the early days.   We also covered CCR at times and writing up the Log Book with timings.  I think I only did GRAMS about two or three times in all the years I was there.  I wasn?t very good at it; I somehow didn?t have the feel for it that some of the girls who came from recording did.  I?d been used to dealing with big pieces of equipment at Droitwich.  Somehow, I don?t know, those small pieces of equipment didn?t come easily to me.  I was fascinated by the cameras right from the beginning.
>  
> I remember a chap called George Rose who had been a pre-war vision mixer - when it was all blokes.  He was the only one who told any of us anything about vision mixing, as such.  Otherwise, we just picked it up by watching whatever went on.  When more of the girls came (and I can?t remember how long it was after the service reopened), but it was probably getting on for a year afterwards - we had somebody allocated to telecine.  You had to clean all those mirrors on the Mechau projectors - thirty-two, if I remember rightly ? (but I am not absolutely certain about that).  Occasionally, I remember having to operate the projector in the film unit downstairs.  This was where the new telecine was installed when it came, which Gordon Waters took over ? that was not long before I left.  I occasionally did Sound Floor, you know, shoving in a microphone either above or below on a stand - above or below the camera ? but, mostly, I did camerawork to begin with and, of course, that was my delight. 
>  
> I started on cameras right from the first day ? the first day we put out a programme which was the day before the Victory Parade, which was a Friday, and it was the afternoon session in Studio B.  I was on Camera 3 (I was mostly on three whichever studio I was in) and so I didn?t, at that time, know very much about Ted Langley who was senior cameraman in Studio A, as Frank Cresswell was the senior camera man in Studio B.  The ?iron man? was not really moveable except when your camera was not ?on air?.  You could move the camera around obviously, but it was fairly heavy to move whilst you were actually on air.  You could push it with one foot as long as you kept your balance with the other one.  But the distance was only a matter of how far your legs would stretch and still keep your balance and keep control.  
>  
> I was on that ?iron man? the day the service reopened.  I didn?t realise (in my na?ve way), that I was actually going to do the transmission.  I?d being doing the rehearsal, but I hadn?t sort of twigged that having done the rehearsal, I would necessarily do the transmission.  I thought that all these chaps that were dashing around being very, very, important were going to take over the camera and do it on the transmission and I was absolutely vapped when I found that I was doing it!  The next day it was the Outside Broadcast of the Victory Parade, while I was in the studio working on ?The Squadronnaires? (featuring Harry Lewis, Dame Vera Lynn?s husband).  That was a great time. 
>  
> Now, lining up cameras ? that was a daily chore.  Each camera operator took it in turns to line-up their camera, starting with camera 1.  I was usually on either camera 3 or 4, so usually it was after morning tea before I got to line up my camera.  We pointed the camera at a chart, and it went on from there.  RACKS guided you as to what they saw on their screen, and you marked on your glass screen exactly where the picture limits were for that particular camera.  You went slightly beyond this limit, so you could see the boom microphone coming in from the top or something coming in from the sides before it got in shot.  We also had to watch out for getting a beam from one of the studio lights light in picture - it used to kill the camera.  There used to be a burning smell and the camera had to have a new tube. 
>  
> We used to see a direct picture in the viewfinder.  The camera had two lenses, a lens which went straight to the camera and a lens to the side of it which gave the camera operator the same picture but, being a lens, it inverted it ? it was upside down and back to front.  You quickly learned to look at the picture and quickly balance it and go with the movement in the opposite direction to where you would expect to be going looking at the picture!  There was something else we had to worry about too and that was the power lags on the two lenses.  The one that went through to the camera was dead straight on, but the one on the side, of course, to keep on the same picture, had to come at a slight angle from the other one so your picture composition might not be exactly the same as the main camera.  So, you had to do a little bit of adjustment on that one too. 
>  
> At the end of transmission, we had to wheel our cameras to the side of the studio and coil up the cables so that the floor of the studio was left clear, ready to build the sets for the next day?s programme.  It was a matter of honour that you didn?t leave the place looking a mess.  Ted Langley and Ben Blooman were very keen on this, so we had to watch ourselves and make sure everything was just so.
>  
> Now it was after Bimbi Harris came and I?d being doing camerawork for quite some time, and she wanted to do that - I?m not surprised, I thoroughly enjoyed it and didn?t see why she wouldn?t want too!  One day a reporter came from a television magazine and found out about there being a ?cameraman? who was female or maybe he found out about two, I?m not quite sure.  Henry Whiting told me that they wanted to do a publicity picture of me on a camera and I was rather tickled at the idea, as you can imagine.  I was actually in Studio A the day the reporter arrived ? working on a show.  At the end of the programme, I tried to find this photographer only to discover that Bimbi had already been photographed on Camera 2, which was the Crab!  I can understand why he would have taken her because she would certainly have taken a better picture than I would have done.  But, because she was photographed on a tracking camera and because she wasn?t the first female operator, the blokes were a bit peeved.  Bimbi hadn?t been at the Palace very long and I had been there for a few years at that point, they didn?t think she should have appeared on the tracking camera which, of course, is not one she would have operated, and they thought it should have been me.
>  
> Now the next thing that happened which was why I and Bimbi came off cameras  was due to the fact that the camera men wanted to get themselves a higher grade and they were trying to upgrade their pay in relation to the other operators around ? it was a very specialised job!  All the cameramen, as far as I know, including me, belonged to the Association of Senior Technicians, and they were expecting this Association to back their claim.  The Association didn?t like me being one of the camera crew because if I could do it then, obviously, it wasn?t such a very skilled job after all.  Henry, to avoid any splitting up of the blokes in the studio I presume, told me that I wouldn?t be able to do camerawork anymore.  
>  
> I think everybody was a TA1 when went to Alexandra Palace, but I can?t remember it being stated as a requisite.  However, when we had been there some time a lot of chaps came out of the Forces, they had not necessarily been in the BBC before the War.  The BBC insisted those who were TA1?s would be B Grade.  Up until that time, the difference between operators and engineers had been an exam to get the status of B Grade, but they shifted it up a peg to C, so the exam was between D Grade and C, and that was the start of what became qualified ?Engineers? as opposed to us ?Operators?.  We were all still in the Engineering Division, but on different grades.  It meant an increase in salary, but not, if I remember correctly very much, and certainly not backdated so it wasn?t quite so startling.  
>  
> I remember that somebody on the other shift was actually working quite hard to take the exam.  Bertie Baker, stated quite categorically that no female, even if they passed the exam, would be given a C Grade job, so we could pass the exam if we wanted too but we would still be B Grade.  And so, somewhat to my relief and certainly to the disgust of a number of people, who felt they should have had the same opportunity as the rest did, simmer down. I stayed on B Grade until I left.   Well, as you can imagine, I was pretty peeved about that, not just peeved, I was downright sick about the whole thing.  I don?t know who told Bimbi, it might have been Henry ? but, like me, she just wasn?t rostered on cameras again.  Anyway, that was my end of women operating cameras.  Henry decided that because I had been so disappointed about coming off cameras - he thought well, okay she can do some vision mixing and I went virtually from the floor on cameras to vision mixing most of the time.  
>  
> When I got round to Vision Mixing we weren?t able to cut, we were only able to fade up and fade out.  A mix was achieved by bringing the fader up onto the first stop, waiting, and then turning it full up whenever we wanted it.  Because of the delay on the picture coming up, we couldn?t just bring one in and take one out as quickly as that without a bit of wind-up to begin with!  They were beautiful knobs, you know, you grasped them, and they filled your hand ? you knew you?d got hold of them.  Underneath each fader was a little pushbutton which queued up the next picture that RACKS was supposed to put on the preview channel for us in the Gallery.  In those days there were only two screens in the studio galleries - one was the transmitted picture and the one that RACKS put up on preview whichever that happened to be.  When you had a quick sequence, you had to yell down to RACKS to be able to bring the preview channel up quickly for you, otherwise, you?d be fading up channels without actually having seen them first! 
>  
> For gardening programmes when we used to run a cable from Studio A, out over the balcony, down the front of the building and through a channel underneath the road to the garden on the other side of the road where Fred Streeter would do his programme.  We were always wondering if there was something he was going to hold that would have to be bought back in the studio.  This was always left until the last minute, someone would start taking it back, only to find it was needed back with Fred, and they had to bring it back quickly.  I didn?t do the camera work on the gardening programmes, but I did a lot of cable hauling.  On those days they used to stop the buses using anywhere in the park.  We had to have our badges to get through Alexandra Park and everybody else was kept out except for the buses - but the buses weren?t allowed to stop on their way through.   
>  
> I remember we were bored a lot of the time, but somehow or other the whole thing seemed to be absolutely joyous.  We were all enthusiastic, we were all keen on doing the thing we were doing ? we didn?t care what we did particularly, as long as we were involved, and involved we certainly got ourselves!
>  
> The ?Dive? used to be absolutely beautiful in Spring when all the cherry blossom trees were in bloom.  With hindsight it was really and truly rather a dive!  It?s just that it was there, it was convenient and you could go over there just before the evening transmission and, ahh well . . . . it was a place to relax! 
>  
> I hope the above has been of interest.
>  
> Many thanks
>  
> Simon
>  
>  
> Simon Vaughan
> Archivist
> for and on behalf of
> Alexandra Palace Television Society
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Tel:       +44 (0) 1332 729358
> Mob:     +44 (0) 7791 780882
> E-mail:  apts at apts.org.uk
> Web:     www.apts.org.uk
>                www.youtube.com/aptsarchive
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> The Alexandra Palace Television Society is a not-for-profit organisation, dedicated to preserving for present and future generations, the oral and written history of the pioneers who inaugurated the world's first regular public high-definition television service from Alexandra Palace, north London, in 1936.
>  
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.  If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the system manager: postmaster at apts.org.uk
>  
>  
>  
> From: Alec Bray <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 10:00
> To: Simon Vaughan <simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com>
> Cc: APTS Archivist <apts at apts.org.uk>, Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female camerawoman?
>  
> Hi Simon,
> Thank you very much for the photos of the Emitron Cameras!  Thanks, too, for the explanation of the horizontal "bar". As I mentioned, I had not seen any photos of the original Emitrons with lens hoods - that front-on view is an interesting photo in its own right.  And I certainly did not release how many different "design iterations" there were for those early Emitrons  and I can see why you thought that she might be operating the camera!!
> I have had another go at photo-manipulation.  The vertical cable seems to come from the bottom of the camera (viewfinder) and not from the lady's hand.
> <image001.png>
> The lady is wearing a bangle or a bangle which incorporates a wristwatch - it is clearer in some manipulations as to how the light is reflected.
> <image002.png>       <image003.png>   
> Do we see the face of the watch in the photo where the lady is barely seen?
> <image004.png>
>  
> Anyway, it seems that the lady in question is doing  "something" with something near to or attached to the camera:  it seems to be a smallish knob.or cylindrical object, perhaps mounted on a rectangular plinth sticking out from the side of the camera - tricky to see in the shadows.
>  
> <image005.png>
>  
> I hope that this is of interest!  I have reached the limit of what I can do to separate out the grey scale at this area.
> A very intriguing picture, Simon - and with your photos of original Emitrons in various configurations you may be able to say what the lady is doing!
> -- 
> =======
>  
> Alec Bray
>  
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> Mob:  07789 561 346
> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>  
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
> <Molly Brownless - Article-Dec 1950.jpg><Molly Brownless - on camera 1946.jpg><Molly at AP - 02-1940s.jpg><Molly Brownless - 04.jpg><Molly Brownless - 03.jpg>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Fri Jul 23 08:16:12 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 14:16:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman
In-Reply-To: <7C8EC20F-FC39-4DF4-9806-F731330F8C4B@icloud.com>
References: <EFC165DA-2F92-4A74-B86F-12916532CD9B@apts.org.uk>
	<7C8EC20F-FC39-4DF4-9806-F731330F8C4B@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <11727306E93D438D87F18237463B797A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Agreed Graeme - wonderful stuff and hugely worthy of Simon's posting.

Dave Newbitt.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Graeme Wall via Tech1
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2021 1:47 PM
To: Alexandra Palace Television Society
Cc: Tech ops
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female 
camerawoman

Many thanks for posting that Alec. Absolutey fascinating to read. Perhaps 
the GTC should offer her honary membership!
?
Graeme Wall


> On 23 Jul 2021, at 12:40, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> My apologies for not replying sooner to this thread, but I have been 
> waiting for an email from Australia where I have tracked down the lady 
> featured in the photograph I shared a couple of weeks ago.
>
> The lady in question is Molly Brownless, (nee Heritage, then Frood), and 
> she was operating the camera in the original photograph!  She was at AP 
> before from April 1946 and was operating an Emitron on the re-opening day! 
> I?ve been corresponding with Eileen, Molly?s daughter, who was with her 
> the day she received my email ? Molly remembers working on the ballet and 
> has a great recall of her days working at AP.  Molly is now 101, loving 
> life and is constantly busy.   After emigrating to Australia in 1951 she 
> was a pioneer with Australian television when it was established and went 
> on to have an important career within the industry.
>
> Dr Jeannine Baker (who I give total credit for identifying Molly) has 
> recorded a long interview with her, over three consecutive days.  Jeannine 
> has recently given a talk to an Australian conference on Molly career and 
> it will be featured on a new website for the National Film and Sound 
> Archive of Australia.  She is also working on a book about women and 
> technology in television covering the UK and Australia.
>
> So, it would appear the first female camera operator was Molly Brownless ? 
> she was at AP on re-opening day in June 1946 and was on her camera during 
> the afternoon transmission.
>
> I have attached some photographs of Molly when at AP in 1946, as well of 
> some celebrating her 101st birthday.
>
> Here are Molly?s memories of being at Alexandra Palace:
>
> It was the beginning of April when we went to Alexandra Palace.  From them 
> on we spent all our time trying to pick up whatever we could from people 
> who were around, who were far too frantic to be doing much about our 
> training.  And the girls were looked at somewhat aghast by those who were 
> supposed to be giving what information they could.  I suppose we more or 
> less gravitated towards the things that seemed to interest us mostly. 
> Audrey and Joan were happy enough on GRAMS, Isobel hung around Studio B 
> watching whatever was going on in, as well us on the upstairs desk to see 
> what she could pick up there.  Rachel was, as far as I remember, from the 
> beginning in Studio A.
>
> Before we actually reopened Alexandra Palace, in June 1946, there were 
> seven girls on each shift.  First of all, when we started off, everyone 
> was on days, and I didn?t really get to know the people then.  Everyone 
> was working, or not working (as the case may be), hanging around the place 
> trying to pick up what information they could.  I knew them by name, and 
> you obviously got to know them properly later on when the shifts were 
> changed around and so forth, but all the time I was there, there were just 
> two shifts and we worked alternate days and even when one arranged a 
> shift-swap, one didn?t see the person one swapped with because, well, they 
> weren?t there when you were there - even though you could do that 
> arranging.
>
> The thing I seem to remember that made our life rather tedious at times 
> was operating the switchboard.  It was up a little wooden ladder, going 
> out of Maintenance at the back of A RACKS.  I think they put us up there 
> to get us out from under their feet.  This little switchboard had very 
> little capability - just two lines and Studio A, Studio B, RACKS, and I?ve 
> forgotten who else was on that switchboard, but only a few.  If more than 
> two people wanted to be connected at a time, it was not possible.  Anyway, 
> we all had to cover it and I seemed to be on it whenever I wasn?t on the 
> camera in the early days.   We also covered CCR at times and writing up 
> the Log Book with timings.  I think I only did GRAMS about two or three 
> times in all the years I was there.  I wasn?t very good at it; I somehow 
> didn?t have the feel for it that some of the girls who came from recording 
> did.  I?d been used to dealing with big pieces of equipment at Droitwich. 
> Somehow, I don?t know, those small pieces of equipment didn?t come easily 
> to me.  I was fascinated by the cameras right from the beginning.
>
> I remember a chap called George Rose who had been a pre-war vision mixer - 
> when it was all blokes.  He was the only one who told any of us anything 
> about vision mixing, as such.  Otherwise, we just picked it up by watching 
> whatever went on.  When more of the girls came (and I can?t remember how 
> long it was after the service reopened), but it was probably getting on 
> for a year afterwards - we had somebody allocated to telecine.  You had to 
> clean all those mirrors on the Mechau projectors - thirty-two, if I 
> remember rightly ? (but I am not absolutely certain about that). 
> Occasionally, I remember having to operate the projector in the film unit 
> downstairs.  This was where the new telecine was installed when it came, 
> which Gordon Waters took over ? that was not long before I left.  I 
> occasionally did Sound Floor, you know, shoving in a microphone either 
> above or below on a stand - above or below the camera ? but, mostly, I did 
> camerawork to begin with and, of course, that was my delight.
>
> I started on cameras right from the first day ? the first day we put out a 
> programme which was the day before the Victory Parade, which was a Friday, 
> and it was the afternoon session in Studio B.  I was on Camera 3 (I was 
> mostly on three whichever studio I was in) and so I didn?t, at that time, 
> know very much about Ted Langley who was senior cameraman in Studio A, as 
> Frank Cresswell was the senior camera man in Studio B.  The ?iron man? was 
> not really moveable except when your camera was not ?on air?.  You could 
> move the camera around obviously, but it was fairly heavy to move whilst 
> you were actually on air.  You could push it with one foot as long as you 
> kept your balance with the other one.  But the distance was only a matter 
> of how far your legs would stretch and still keep your balance and keep 
> control.
>
> I was on that ?iron man? the day the service reopened.  I didn?t realise 
> (in my na?ve way), that I was actually going to do the transmission.  I?d 
> being doing the rehearsal, but I hadn?t sort of twigged that having done 
> the rehearsal, I would necessarily do the transmission.  I thought that 
> all these chaps that were dashing around being very, very, important were 
> going to take over the camera and do it on the transmission and I was 
> absolutely vapped when I found that I was doing it!  The next day it was 
> the Outside Broadcast of the Victory Parade, while I was in the studio 
> working on ?The Squadronnaires? (featuring Harry Lewis, Dame Vera Lynn?s 
> husband).  That was a great time.
>
> Now, lining up cameras ? that was a daily chore.  Each camera operator 
> took it in turns to line-up their camera, starting with camera 1.  I was 
> usually on either camera 3 or 4, so usually it was after morning tea 
> before I got to line up my camera.  We pointed the camera at a chart, and 
> it went on from there.  RACKS guided you as to what they saw on their 
> screen, and you marked on your glass screen exactly where the picture 
> limits were for that particular camera.  You went slightly beyond this 
> limit, so you could see the boom microphone coming in from the top or 
> something coming in from the sides before it got in shot.  We also had to 
> watch out for getting a beam from one of the studio lights light in 
> picture - it used to kill the camera.  There used to be a burning smell 
> and the camera had to have a new tube.
>
> We used to see a direct picture in the viewfinder.  The camera had two 
> lenses, a lens which went straight to the camera and a lens to the side of 
> it which gave the camera operator the same picture but, being a lens, it 
> inverted it ? it was upside down and back to front.  You quickly learned 
> to look at the picture and quickly balance it and go with the movement in 
> the opposite direction to where you would expect to be going looking at 
> the picture!  There was something else we had to worry about too and that 
> was the power lags on the two lenses.  The one that went through to the 
> camera was dead straight on, but the one on the side, of course, to keep 
> on the same picture, had to come at a slight angle from the other one so 
> your picture composition might not be exactly the same as the main camera. 
> So, you had to do a little bit of adjustment on that one too.
>
> At the end of transmission, we had to wheel our cameras to the side of the 
> studio and coil up the cables so that the floor of the studio was left 
> clear, ready to build the sets for the next day?s programme.  It was a 
> matter of honour that you didn?t leave the place looking a mess.  Ted 
> Langley and Ben Blooman were very keen on this, so we had to watch 
> ourselves and make sure everything was just so.
>
> Now it was after Bimbi Harris came and I?d being doing camerawork for 
> quite some time, and she wanted to do that - I?m not surprised, I 
> thoroughly enjoyed it and didn?t see why she wouldn?t want too!  One day a 
> reporter came from a television magazine and found out about there being a 
> ?cameraman? who was female or maybe he found out about two, I?m not quite 
> sure.  Henry Whiting told me that they wanted to do a publicity picture of 
> me on a camera and I was rather tickled at the idea, as you can imagine. 
> I was actually in Studio A the day the reporter arrived ? working on a 
> show.  At the end of the programme, I tried to find this photographer only 
> to discover that Bimbi had already been photographed on Camera 2, which 
> was the Crab!  I can understand why he would have taken her because she 
> would certainly have taken a better picture than I would have done.  But, 
> because she was photographed on a tracking camera and because she wasn?t 
> the first female operator, the blokes were a bit peeved.  Bimbi hadn?t 
> been at the Palace very long and I had been there for a few years at that 
> point, they didn?t think she should have appeared on the tracking camera 
> which, of course, is not one she would have operated, and they thought it 
> should have been me.
>
> Now the next thing that happened which was why I and Bimbi came off 
> cameras  was due to the fact that the camera men wanted to get themselves 
> a higher grade and they were trying to upgrade their pay in relation to 
> the other operators around ? it was a very specialised job!  All the 
> cameramen, as far as I know, including me, belonged to the Association of 
> Senior Technicians, and they were expecting this Association to back their 
> claim.  The Association didn?t like me being one of the camera crew 
> because if I could do it then, obviously, it wasn?t such a very skilled 
> job after all.  Henry, to avoid any splitting up of the blokes in the 
> studio I presume, told me that I wouldn?t be able to do camerawork 
> anymore.
>
> I think everybody was a TA1 when went to Alexandra Palace, but I can?t 
> remember it being stated as a requisite.  However, when we had been there 
> some time a lot of chaps came out of the Forces, they had not necessarily 
> been in the BBC before the War.  The BBC insisted those who were TA1?s 
> would be B Grade.  Up until that time, the difference between operators 
> and engineers had been an exam to get the status of B Grade, but they 
> shifted it up a peg to C, so the exam was between D Grade and C, and that 
> was the start of what became qualified ?Engineers? as opposed to us 
> ?Operators?.  We were all still in the Engineering Division, but on 
> different grades.  It meant an increase in salary, but not, if I remember 
> correctly very much, and certainly not backdated so it wasn?t quite so 
> startling.
>
> I remember that somebody on the other shift was actually working quite 
> hard to take the exam.  Bertie Baker, stated quite categorically that no 
> female, even if they passed the exam, would be given a C Grade job, so we 
> could pass the exam if we wanted too but we would still be B Grade.  And 
> so, somewhat to my relief and certainly to the disgust of a number of 
> people, who felt they should have had the same opportunity as the rest 
> did, simmer down. I stayed on B Grade until I left.   Well, as you can 
> imagine, I was pretty peeved about that, not just peeved, I was downright 
> sick about the whole thing.  I don?t know who told Bimbi, it might have 
> been Henry ? but, like me, she just wasn?t rostered on cameras again. 
> Anyway, that was my end of women operating cameras.  Henry decided that 
> because I had been so disappointed about coming off cameras - he thought 
> well, okay she can do some vision mixing and I went virtually from the 
> floor on cameras to vision mixing most of the time.
>
> When I got round to Vision Mixing we weren?t able to cut, we were only 
> able to fade up and fade out.  A mix was achieved by bringing the fader up 
> onto the first stop, waiting, and then turning it full up whenever we 
> wanted it.  Because of the delay on the picture coming up, we couldn?t 
> just bring one in and take one out as quickly as that without a bit of 
> wind-up to begin with!  They were beautiful knobs, you know, you grasped 
> them, and they filled your hand ? you knew you?d got hold of them. 
> Underneath each fader was a little pushbutton which queued up the next 
> picture that RACKS was supposed to put on the preview channel for us in 
> the Gallery.  In those days there were only two screens in the studio 
> galleries - one was the transmitted picture and the one that RACKS put up 
> on preview whichever that happened to be.  When you had a quick sequence, 
> you had to yell down to RACKS to be able to bring the preview channel up 
> quickly for you, otherwise, you?d be fading up channels without actually 
> having seen them first!
>
> For gardening programmes when we used to run a cable from Studio A, out 
> over the balcony, down the front of the building and through a channel 
> underneath the road to the garden on the other side of the road where Fred 
> Streeter would do his programme.  We were always wondering if there was 
> something he was going to hold that would have to be bought back in the 
> studio.  This was always left until the last minute, someone would start 
> taking it back, only to find it was needed back with Fred, and they had to 
> bring it back quickly.  I didn?t do the camera work on the gardening 
> programmes, but I did a lot of cable hauling.  On those days they used to 
> stop the buses using anywhere in the park.  We had to have our badges to 
> get through Alexandra Park and everybody else was kept out except for the 
> buses - but the buses weren?t allowed to stop on their way through.
>
> I remember we were bored a lot of the time, but somehow or other the whole 
> thing seemed to be absolutely joyous.  We were all enthusiastic, we were 
> all keen on doing the thing we were doing ? we didn?t care what we did 
> particularly, as long as we were involved, and involved we certainly got 
> ourselves!
>
> The ?Dive? used to be absolutely beautiful in Spring when all the cherry 
> blossom trees were in bloom.  With hindsight it was really and truly 
> rather a dive!  It?s just that it was there, it was convenient and you 
> could go over there just before the evening transmission and, ahh well . . 
> . . it was a place to relax!
>
> I hope the above has been of interest.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Simon
>
>
> Simon Vaughan
> Archivist
> for and on behalf of
> Alexandra Palace Television Society
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Tel:       +44 (0) 1332 729358
> Mob:     +44 (0) 7791 780882
> E-mail:  apts at apts.org.uk
> Web:     www.apts.org.uk
>                www.youtube.com/aptsarchive
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> The Alexandra Palace Television Society is a not-for-profit organisation, 
> dedicated to preserving for present and future generations, the oral and 
> written history of the pioneers who inaugurated the world's first regular 
> public high-definition television service from Alexandra Palace, north 
> London, in 1936.
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are 
> addressed.  If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the 
> system manager: postmaster at apts.org.uk
>
>
>
> From: Alec Bray <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 10:00
> To: Simon Vaughan <simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com>
> Cc: APTS Archivist <apts at apts.org.uk>, Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another 
> female camerawoman?
>
> Hi Simon,
> Thank you very much for the photos of the Emitron Cameras!  Thanks, too, 
> for the explanation of the horizontal "bar". As I mentioned, I had not 
> seen any photos of the original Emitrons with lens hoods - that front-on 
> view is an interesting photo in its own right.  And I certainly did not 
> release how many different "design iterations" there were for those early 
> Emitrons  and I can see why you thought that she might be operating the 
> camera!!
> I have had another go at photo-manipulation.  The vertical cable seems to 
> come from the bottom of the camera (viewfinder) and not from the lady's 
> hand.
> <image001.png>
> The lady is wearing a bangle or a bangle which incorporates a wristwatch - 
> it is clearer in some manipulations as to how the light is reflected.
> <image002.png>       <image003.png>
> Do we see the face of the watch in the photo where the lady is barely 
> seen?
> <image004.png>
>
> Anyway, it seems that the lady in question is doing  "something" with 
> something near to or attached to the camera:  it seems to be a smallish 
> knob.or cylindrical object, perhaps mounted on a rectangular plinth 
> sticking out from the side of the camera - tricky to see in the shadows.
>
> <image005.png>
>
> I hope that this is of interest!  I have reached the limit of what I can 
> do to separate out the grey scale at this area.
> A very intriguing picture, Simon - and with your photos of original 
> Emitrons in various configurations you may be able to say what the lady is 
> doing!
> -- 
> =======
>
> Alec Bray
>
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> Mob:  07789 561 346
> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
> <Molly Brownless - Article-Dec 1950.jpg><Molly Brownless - on camera 
> 1946.jpg><Molly at AP - 02-1940s.jpg><Molly Brownless - 04.jpg><Molly 
> Brownless - 03.jpg>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 



From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Fri Jul 23 08:21:07 2021
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 14:21:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman
Message-ID: <6qmplpugwupe5bgn1grtofou.1627046467292@email.android.com>

I'd second that, Graeme.? When we took on our first female trainee in 1979 (I think) we thought it really was a first - but there's nothing new under the sun, it seems!?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 23/07/2021  13:47  (GMT+00:00) To: Alexandra Palace Television Society <apts at apts.org.uk> Cc: Tech ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
  camerawoman Many thanks for posting that Alec. Absolutey fascinating to read. Perhaps the GTC should offer her honary membership!? Graeme Wall> On 23 Jul 2021, at 12:40, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:> > My apologies for not replying sooner to this thread, but I have been waiting for an email from Australia where I have tracked down the lady featured in the photograph I shared a couple of weeks ago.>? > The lady in question is Molly Brownless, (nee Heritage, then Frood), and she was operating the camera in the original photograph!? She was at AP before from April 1946 and was operating an Emitron on the re-opening day!? I?ve been corresponding with Eileen, Molly?s daughter, who was with her the day she received my email ? Molly remembers working on the ballet and has a great recall of her days working at AP.? Molly is now 101, loving life and is constantly busy.?? After emigrating to Australia in 1951 she was a pioneer with Australian television when it was established and went on to have an important career within the industry.>? > Dr Jeannine Baker (who I give total credit for identifying Molly) has recorded a long interview with her, over three consecutive days.? Jeannine has recently given a talk to an Australian conference on Molly career and it will be featured on a new website for the National Film and Sound Archive of Australia.? She is also working on a book about women and technology in television covering the UK and Australia.>? > So, it would appear the first female camera operator was Molly Brownless ? she was at AP on re-opening day in June 1946 and was on her camera during the afternoon transmission.>? > I have attached some photographs of Molly when at AP in 1946, as well of some celebrating her 101st birthday.>? > Here are Molly?s memories of being at Alexandra Palace:>? > It was the beginning of April when we went to Alexandra Palace.? From them on we spent all our time trying to pick up whatever we could from people who were around, who were far too frantic to be doing much about our training.? And the girls were looked at somewhat aghast by those who were supposed to be giving what information they could.? I suppose we more or less gravitated towards the things that seemed to interest us mostly.? Audrey and Joan were happy enough on GRAMS, Isobel hung around Studio B watching whatever was going on in, as well us on the upstairs desk to see what she could pick up there.? Rachel was, as far as I remember, from the beginning in Studio A.?? >? > Before we actually reopened Alexandra Palace, in June 1946, there were seven girls on each shift.? First of all, when we started off, everyone was on days, and I didn?t really get to know the people then.? Everyone was working, or not working (as the case may be), hanging around the place trying to pick up what information they could.? I knew them by name, and you obviously got to know them properly later on when the shifts were changed around and so forth, but all the time I was there, there were just two shifts and we worked alternate days and even when one arranged a shift-swap, one didn?t see the person one swapped with because, well, they weren?t there when you were there - even though you could do that arranging.? >? > The thing I seem to remember that made our life rather tedious at times was operating the switchboard.? It was up a little wooden ladder, going out of Maintenance at the back of A RACKS.? I think they put us up there to get us out from under their feet.? This little switchboard had very little capability - just two lines and Studio A, Studio B, RACKS, and I?ve forgotten who else was on that switchboard, but only a few.? If more than two people wanted to be connected at a time, it was not possible.? Anyway, we all had to cover it and I seemed to be on it whenever I wasn?t on the camera in the early days.?? We also covered CCR at times and writing up the Log Book with timings.? I think I only did GRAMS about two or three times in all the years I was there.? I wasn?t very good at it; I somehow didn?t have the feel for it that some of the girls who came from recording did.? I?d been used to dealing with big pieces of equipment at Droitwich.? Somehow, I don?t know, those small pieces of equipment didn?t come easily to me.? I was fascinated by the cameras right from the beginning.>? > I remember a chap called George Rose who had been a pre-war vision mixer - when it was all blokes.? He was the only one who told any of us anything about vision mixing, as such.? Otherwise, we just picked it up by watching whatever went on.? When more of the girls came (and I can?t remember how long it was after the service reopened), but it was probably getting on for a year afterwards - we had somebody allocated to telecine.? You had to clean all those mirrors on the Mechau projectors - thirty-two, if I remember rightly ? (but I am not absolutely certain about that).? Occasionally, I remember having to operate the projector in the film unit downstairs.? This was where the new telecine was installed when it came, which Gordon Waters took over ? that was not long before I left.? I occasionally did Sound Floor, you know, shoving in a microphone either above or below on a stand - above or below the camera ? but, mostly, I did camerawork to begin with and, of course, that was my delight. >? > I started on cameras right from the first day ? the first day we put out a programme which was the day before the Victory Parade, which was a Friday, and it was the afternoon session in Studio B.? I was on Camera 3 (I was mostly on three whichever studio I was in) and so I didn?t, at that time, know very much about Ted Langley who was senior cameraman in Studio A, as Frank Cresswell was the senior camera man in Studio B.? The ?iron man? was not really moveable except when your camera was not ?on air?.? You could move the camera around obviously, but it was fairly heavy to move whilst you were actually on air.? You could push it with one foot as long as you kept your balance with the other one.? But the distance was only a matter of how far your legs would stretch and still keep your balance and keep control.? >? > I was on that ?iron man? the day the service reopened.? I didn?t realise (in my na?ve way), that I was actually going to do the transmission.? I?d being doing the rehearsal, but I hadn?t sort of twigged that having done the rehearsal, I would necessarily do the transmission.? I thought that all these chaps that were dashing around being very, very, important were going to take over the camera and do it on the transmission and I was absolutely vapped when I found that I was doing it!? The next day it was the Outside Broadcast of the Victory Parade, while I was in the studio working on ?The Squadronnaires? (featuring Harry Lewis, Dame Vera Lynn?s husband).? That was a great time. >? > Now, lining up cameras ? that was a daily chore.? Each camera operator took it in turns to line-up their camera, starting with camera 1.? I was usually on either camera 3 or 4, so usually it was after morning tea before I got to line up my camera.? We pointed the camera at a chart, and it went on from there.? RACKS guided you as to what they saw on their screen, and you marked on your glass screen exactly where the picture limits were for that particular camera.? You went slightly beyond this limit, so you could see the boom microphone coming in from the top or something coming in from the sides before it got in shot.? We also had to watch out for getting a beam from one of the studio lights light in picture - it used to kill the camera.? There used to be a burning smell and the camera had to have a new tube. >? > We used to see a direct picture in the viewfinder.? The camera had two lenses, a lens which went straight to the camera and a lens to the side of it which gave the camera operator the same picture but, being a lens, it inverted it ? it was upside down and back to front.? You quickly learned to look at the picture and quickly balance it and go with the movement in the opposite direction to where you would expect to be going looking at the picture!? There was something else we had to worry about too and that was the power lags on the two lenses.? The one that went through to the camera was dead straight on, but the one on the side, of course, to keep on the same picture, had to come at a slight angle from the other one so your picture composition might not be exactly the same as the main camera.? So, you had to do a little bit of adjustment on that one too. >? > At the end of transmission, we had to wheel our cameras to the side of the studio and coil up the cables so that the floor of the studio was left clear, ready to build the sets for the next day?s programme.? It was a matter of honour that you didn?t leave the place looking a mess.? Ted Langley and Ben Blooman were very keen on this, so we had to watch ourselves and make sure everything was just so.>? > Now it was after Bimbi Harris came and I?d being doing camerawork for quite some time, and she wanted to do that - I?m not surprised, I thoroughly enjoyed it and didn?t see why she wouldn?t want too!? One day a reporter came from a television magazine and found out about there being a ?cameraman? who was female or maybe he found out about two, I?m not quite sure.? Henry Whiting told me that they wanted to do a publicity picture of me on a camera and I was rather tickled at the idea, as you can imagine.? I was actually in Studio A the day the reporter arrived ? working on a show.? At the end of the programme, I tried to find this photographer only to discover that Bimbi had already been photographed on Camera 2, which was the Crab!? I can understand why he would have taken her because she would certainly have taken a better picture than I would have done.? But, because she was photographed on a tracking camera and because she wasn?t the first female operator, the blokes were a bit peeved.? Bimbi hadn?t been at the Palace very long and I had been there for a few years at that point, they didn?t think she should have appeared on the tracking camera which, of course, is not one she would have operated, and they thought it should have been me.>? > Now the next thing that happened which was why I and Bimbi came off cameras? was due to the fact that the camera men wanted to get themselves a higher grade and they were trying to upgrade their pay in relation to the other operators around ? it was a very specialised job!? All the cameramen, as far as I know, including me, belonged to the Association of Senior Technicians, and they were expecting this Association to back their claim.? The Association didn?t like me being one of the camera crew because if I could do it then, obviously, it wasn?t such a very skilled job after all.? Henry, to avoid any splitting up of the blokes in the studio I presume, told me that I wouldn?t be able to do camerawork anymore.? >? > I think everybody was a TA1 when went to Alexandra Palace, but I can?t remember it being stated as a requisite.? However, when we had been there some time a lot of chaps came out of the Forces, they had not necessarily been in the BBC before the War.? The BBC insisted those who were TA1?s would be B Grade.? Up until that time, the difference between operators and engineers had been an exam to get the status of B Grade, but they shifted it up a peg to C, so the exam was between D Grade and C, and that was the start of what became qualified ?Engineers? as opposed to us ?Operators?.? We were all still in the Engineering Division, but on different grades.? It meant an increase in salary, but not, if I remember correctly very much, and certainly not backdated so it wasn?t quite so startling.? >? > I remember that somebody on the other shift was actually working quite hard to take the exam.? Bertie Baker, stated quite categorically that no female, even if they passed the exam, would be given a C Grade job, so we could pass the exam if we wanted too but we would still be B Grade.? And so, somewhat to my relief and certainly to the disgust of a number of people, who felt they should have had the same opportunity as the rest did, simmer down. I stayed on B Grade until I left.?? Well, as you can imagine, I was pretty peeved about that, not just peeved, I was downright sick about the whole thing.? I don?t know who told Bimbi, it might have been Henry ? but, like me, she just wasn?t rostered on cameras again.? Anyway, that was my end of women operating cameras.? Henry decided that because I had been so disappointed about coming off cameras - he thought well, okay she can do some vision mixing and I went virtually from the floor on cameras to vision mixing most of the time.? >? > When I got round to Vision Mixing we weren?t able to cut, we were only able to fade up and fade out.? A mix was achieved by bringing the fader up onto the first stop, waiting, and then turning it full up whenever we wanted it.? Because of the delay on the picture coming up, we couldn?t just bring one in and take one out as quickly as that without a bit of wind-up to begin with!? They were beautiful knobs, you know, you grasped them, and they filled your hand ? you knew you?d got hold of them.? Underneath each fader was a little pushbutton which queued up the next picture that RACKS was supposed to put on the preview channel for us in the Gallery.? In those days there were only two screens in the studio galleries - one was the transmitted picture and the one that RACKS put up on preview whichever that happened to be.? When you had a quick sequence, you had to yell down to RACKS to be able to bring the preview channel up quickly for you, otherwise, you?d be fading up channels without actually having seen them first! >? > For gardening programmes when we used to run a cable from Studio A, out over the balcony, down the front of the building and through a channel underneath the road to the garden on the other side of the road where Fred Streeter would do his programme.? We were always wondering if there was something he was going to hold that would have to be bought back in the studio.? This was always left until the last minute, someone would start taking it back, only to find it was needed back with Fred, and they had to bring it back quickly.? I didn?t do the camera work on the gardening programmes, but I did a lot of cable hauling.? On those days they used to stop the buses using anywhere in the park.? We had to have our badges to get through Alexandra Park and everybody else was kept out except for the buses - but the buses weren?t allowed to stop on their way through.?? >? > I remember we were bored a lot of the time, but somehow or other the whole thing seemed to be absolutely joyous.? We were all enthusiastic, we were all keen on doing the thing we were doing ? we didn?t care what we did particularly, as long as we were involved, and involved we certainly got ourselves!>? > The ?Dive? used to be absolutely beautiful in Spring when all the cherry blossom trees were in bloom.? With hindsight it was really and truly rather a dive!? It?s just that it was there, it was convenient and you could go over there just before the evening transmission and, ahh well . . . . it was a place to relax! >? > I hope the above has been of interest.>? > Many thanks>? > Simon>? >? > Simon Vaughan> Archivist> for and on behalf of> Alexandra Palace Television Society> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> Tel:?????? +44 (0) 1332 729358> Mob:???? +44 (0) 7791 780882> E-mail:? apts at apts.org.uk> Web:???? www.apts.org.uk>??????????????? www.youtube.com/aptsarchive> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> The Alexandra Palace Television Society is a not-for-profit organisation, dedicated to preserving for present and future generations, the oral and written history of the pioneers who inaugurated the world's first regular public high-definition television service from Alexandra Palace, north London, in 1936.>? > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.? If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the system manager: postmaster at apts.org.uk>? >? >? > From: Alec Bray <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>> Date: Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 10:00> To: Simon Vaughan <simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com>> Cc: APTS Archivist <apts at apts.org.uk>, Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female camerawoman?>? > Hi Simon,> Thank you very much for the photos of the Emitron Cameras!? Thanks, too, for the explanation of the horizontal "bar". As I mentioned, I had not seen any photos of the original Emitrons with lens hoods - that front-on view is an interesting photo in its own right.? And I certainly did not release how many different "design iterations" there were for those early Emitrons? and I can see why you thought that she might be operating the camera!!> I have had another go at photo-manipulation.? The vertical cable seems to come from the bottom of the camera (viewfinder) and not from the lady's hand.> <image001.png>> The lady is wearing a bangle or a bangle which incorporates a wristwatch - it is clearer in some manipulations as to how the light is reflected.> <image002.png>?????? <image003.png>?? > Do we see the face of the watch in the photo where the lady is barely seen?> <image004.png>>? > Anyway, it seems that the lady in question is doing? "something" with something near to or attached to the camera:? it seems to be a smallish knob.or cylindrical object, perhaps mounted on a rectangular plinth sticking out from the side of the camera - tricky to see in the shadows.>? > <image005.png>>? > I hope that this is of interest!? I have reached the limit of what I can do to separate out the grey scale at this area.> A very intriguing picture, Simon - and with your photos of original Emitrons in various configurations you may be able to say what the lady is doing!> -- > =======>? > Alec Bray>? > alec.bray.2 at gmail.com> Mob:? 07789 561 346> Tel:? 0118 981 7502>? > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence> http://www.netintelligence.com/email> <Molly Brownless - Article-Dec 1950.jpg><Molly Brownless - on camera 1946.jpg><Molly at AP - 02-1940s.jpg><Molly Brownless - 04.jpg><Molly Brownless - 03.jpg>-- > Tech1 mailing list> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 23 08:49:21 2021
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 14:49:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman
In-Reply-To: <7C8EC20F-FC39-4DF4-9806-F731330F8C4B@icloud.com>
References: <EFC165DA-2F92-4A74-B86F-12916532CD9B@apts.org.uk>
	<7C8EC20F-FC39-4DF4-9806-F731330F8C4B@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <12ed3891-48aa-e02d-a740-011c128732d2@gmail.com>

HI Graeme,

It was SIMON VAUGHAN from the Alexandra Palace Television Society who 
posted that long article from Molly Brownless.? I must agree, it is a 
fascinating read!? Simon was right all along when he said Molly was 
operating the camera.

We should congratulate Simon for tracking down the lady in question and 
getting her story.? Surely it merits a good old publicity push in noted 
journals!

Best regards, Keep safe

Alec

-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 23 09:17:47 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 15:17:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman
In-Reply-To: <7C8EC20F-FC39-4DF4-9806-F731330F8C4B@icloud.com>
References: <EFC165DA-2F92-4A74-B86F-12916532CD9B@apts.org.uk>
	<7C8EC20F-FC39-4DF4-9806-F731330F8C4B@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <ba692671-1b45-8249-0cd5-6f51f456043f@ntlworld.com>

Not Alec, but Simon Vaughan, Archivist of the Alexandra Palace 
Television Society

B





On 23/07/2021 13:47, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote:
> Many thanks for posting that Alec. Absolutey fascinating to read. Perhaps the GTC should offer her honary membership!
> ?
> Graeme Wall
>
>
>> On 23 Jul 2021, at 12:40, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> My apologies for not replying sooner to this thread, but I have been waiting for an email from Australia where I have tracked down the lady featured in the photograph I shared a couple of weeks ago.
>>   
>> The lady in question is Molly Brownless, (nee Heritage, then Frood), and she was operating the camera in the original photograph!  She was at AP before from April 1946 and was operating an Emitron on the re-opening day!  I?ve been corresponding with Eileen, Molly?s daughter, who was with her the day she received my email ? Molly remembers working on the ballet and has a great recall of her days working at AP.  Molly is now 101, loving life and is constantly busy.   After emigrating to Australia in 1951 she was a pioneer with Australian television when it was established and went on to have an important career within the industry.
>>   
>> Dr Jeannine Baker (who I give total credit for identifying Molly) has recorded a long interview with her, over three consecutive days.  Jeannine has recently given a talk to an Australian conference on Molly career and it will be featured on a new website for the National Film and Sound Archive of Australia.  She is also working on a book about women and technology in television covering the UK and Australia.
>>   
>> So, it would appear the first female camera operator was Molly Brownless ? she was at AP on re-opening day in June 1946 and was on her camera during the afternoon transmission.
>>   
>> I have attached some photographs of Molly when at AP in 1946, as well of some celebrating her 101st birthday.
>>   
>> Here are Molly?s memories of being at Alexandra Palace:
>>   
>> It was the beginning of April when we went to Alexandra Palace.  From them on we spent all our time trying to pick up whatever we could from people who were around, who were far too frantic to be doing much about our training.  And the girls were looked at somewhat aghast by those who were supposed to be giving what information they could.  I suppose we more or less gravitated towards the things that seemed to interest us mostly.  Audrey and Joan were happy enough on GRAMS, Isobel hung around Studio B watching whatever was going on in, as well us on the upstairs desk to see what she could pick up there.  Rachel was, as far as I remember, from the beginning in Studio A.
>>   
>> Before we actually reopened Alexandra Palace, in June 1946, there were seven girls on each shift.  First of all, when we started off, everyone was on days, and I didn?t really get to know the people then.  Everyone was working, or not working (as the case may be), hanging around the place trying to pick up what information they could.  I knew them by name, and you obviously got to know them properly later on when the shifts were changed around and so forth, but all the time I was there, there were just two shifts and we worked alternate days and even when one arranged a shift-swap, one didn?t see the person one swapped with because, well, they weren?t there when you were there - even though you could do that arranging.
>>   
>> The thing I seem to remember that made our life rather tedious at times was operating the switchboard.  It was up a little wooden ladder, going out of Maintenance at the back of A RACKS.  I think they put us up there to get us out from under their feet.  This little switchboard had very little capability - just two lines and Studio A, Studio B, RACKS, and I?ve forgotten who else was on that switchboard, but only a few.  If more than two people wanted to be connected at a time, it was not possible.  Anyway, we all had to cover it and I seemed to be on it whenever I wasn?t on the camera in the early days.   We also covered CCR at times and writing up the Log Book with timings.  I think I only did GRAMS about two or three times in all the years I was there.  I wasn?t very good at it; I somehow didn?t have the feel for it that some of the girls who came from recording did.  I?d been used to dealing with big pieces of equipment at Droitwich.  Somehow, I don?t know, those small pieces of equipment didn?t come easily to me.  I was fascinated by the cameras right from the beginning.
>>   
>> I remember a chap called George Rose who had been a pre-war vision mixer - when it was all blokes.  He was the only one who told any of us anything about vision mixing, as such.  Otherwise, we just picked it up by watching whatever went on.  When more of the girls came (and I can?t remember how long it was after the service reopened), but it was probably getting on for a year afterwards - we had somebody allocated to telecine.  You had to clean all those mirrors on the Mechau projectors - thirty-two, if I remember rightly ? (but I am not absolutely certain about that).  Occasionally, I remember having to operate the projector in the film unit downstairs.  This was where the new telecine was installed when it came, which Gordon Waters took over ? that was not long before I left.  I occasionally did Sound Floor, you know, shoving in a microphone either above or below on a stand - above or below the camera ? but, mostly, I did camerawork to begin with and, of course, that was my delight.
>>   
>> I started on cameras right from the first day ? the first day we put out a programme which was the day before the Victory Parade, which was a Friday, and it was the afternoon session in Studio B.  I was on Camera 3 (I was mostly on three whichever studio I was in) and so I didn?t, at that time, know very much about Ted Langley who was senior cameraman in Studio A, as Frank Cresswell was the senior camera man in Studio B.  The ?iron man? was not really moveable except when your camera was not ?on air?.  You could move the camera around obviously, but it was fairly heavy to move whilst you were actually on air.  You could push it with one foot as long as you kept your balance with the other one.  But the distance was only a matter of how far your legs would stretch and still keep your balance and keep control.
>>   
>> I was on that ?iron man? the day the service reopened.  I didn?t realise (in my na?ve way), that I was actually going to do the transmission.  I?d being doing the rehearsal, but I hadn?t sort of twigged that having done the rehearsal, I would necessarily do the transmission.  I thought that all these chaps that were dashing around being very, very, important were going to take over the camera and do it on the transmission and I was absolutely vapped when I found that I was doing it!  The next day it was the Outside Broadcast of the Victory Parade, while I was in the studio working on ?The Squadronnaires? (featuring Harry Lewis, Dame Vera Lynn?s husband).  That was a great time.
>>   
>> Now, lining up cameras ? that was a daily chore.  Each camera operator took it in turns to line-up their camera, starting with camera 1.  I was usually on either camera 3 or 4, so usually it was after morning tea before I got to line up my camera.  We pointed the camera at a chart, and it went on from there.  RACKS guided you as to what they saw on their screen, and you marked on your glass screen exactly where the picture limits were for that particular camera.  You went slightly beyond this limit, so you could see the boom microphone coming in from the top or something coming in from the sides before it got in shot.  We also had to watch out for getting a beam from one of the studio lights light in picture - it used to kill the camera.  There used to be a burning smell and the camera had to have a new tube.
>>   
>> We used to see a direct picture in the viewfinder.  The camera had two lenses, a lens which went straight to the camera and a lens to the side of it which gave the camera operator the same picture but, being a lens, it inverted it ? it was upside down and back to front.  You quickly learned to look at the picture and quickly balance it and go with the movement in the opposite direction to where you would expect to be going looking at the picture!  There was something else we had to worry about too and that was the power lags on the two lenses.  The one that went through to the camera was dead straight on, but the one on the side, of course, to keep on the same picture, had to come at a slight angle from the other one so your picture composition might not be exactly the same as the main camera.  So, you had to do a little bit of adjustment on that one too.
>>   
>> At the end of transmission, we had to wheel our cameras to the side of the studio and coil up the cables so that the floor of the studio was left clear, ready to build the sets for the next day?s programme.  It was a matter of honour that you didn?t leave the place looking a mess.  Ted Langley and Ben Blooman were very keen on this, so we had to watch ourselves and make sure everything was just so.
>>   
>> Now it was after Bimbi Harris came and I?d being doing camerawork for quite some time, and she wanted to do that - I?m not surprised, I thoroughly enjoyed it and didn?t see why she wouldn?t want too!  One day a reporter came from a television magazine and found out about there being a ?cameraman? who was female or maybe he found out about two, I?m not quite sure.  Henry Whiting told me that they wanted to do a publicity picture of me on a camera and I was rather tickled at the idea, as you can imagine.  I was actually in Studio A the day the reporter arrived ? working on a show.  At the end of the programme, I tried to find this photographer only to discover that Bimbi had already been photographed on Camera 2, which was the Crab!  I can understand why he would have taken her because she would certainly have taken a better picture than I would have done.  But, because she was photographed on a tracking camera and because she wasn?t the first female operator, the blokes were a bit peeved.  Bimbi hadn?t been at the Palace very long and I had been there for a few years at that point, they didn?t think she should have appeared on the tracking camera which, of course, is not one she would have operated, and they thought it should have been me.
>>   
>> Now the next thing that happened which was why I and Bimbi came off cameras  was due to the fact that the camera men wanted to get themselves a higher grade and they were trying to upgrade their pay in relation to the other operators around ? it was a very specialised job!  All the cameramen, as far as I know, including me, belonged to the Association of Senior Technicians, and they were expecting this Association to back their claim.  The Association didn?t like me being one of the camera crew because if I could do it then, obviously, it wasn?t such a very skilled job after all.  Henry, to avoid any splitting up of the blokes in the studio I presume, told me that I wouldn?t be able to do camerawork anymore.
>>   
>> I think everybody was a TA1 when went to Alexandra Palace, but I can?t remember it being stated as a requisite.  However, when we had been there some time a lot of chaps came out of the Forces, they had not necessarily been in the BBC before the War.  The BBC insisted those who were TA1?s would be B Grade.  Up until that time, the difference between operators and engineers had been an exam to get the status of B Grade, but they shifted it up a peg to C, so the exam was between D Grade and C, and that was the start of what became qualified ?Engineers? as opposed to us ?Operators?.  We were all still in the Engineering Division, but on different grades.  It meant an increase in salary, but not, if I remember correctly very much, and certainly not backdated so it wasn?t quite so startling.
>>   
>> I remember that somebody on the other shift was actually working quite hard to take the exam.  Bertie Baker, stated quite categorically that no female, even if they passed the exam, would be given a C Grade job, so we could pass the exam if we wanted too but we would still be B Grade.  And so, somewhat to my relief and certainly to the disgust of a number of people, who felt they should have had the same opportunity as the rest did, simmer down. I stayed on B Grade until I left.   Well, as you can imagine, I was pretty peeved about that, not just peeved, I was downright sick about the whole thing.  I don?t know who told Bimbi, it might have been Henry ? but, like me, she just wasn?t rostered on cameras again.  Anyway, that was my end of women operating cameras.  Henry decided that because I had been so disappointed about coming off cameras - he thought well, okay she can do some vision mixing and I went virtually from the floor on cameras to vision mixing most of the time.
>>   
>> When I got round to Vision Mixing we weren?t able to cut, we were only able to fade up and fade out.  A mix was achieved by bringing the fader up onto the first stop, waiting, and then turning it full up whenever we wanted it.  Because of the delay on the picture coming up, we couldn?t just bring one in and take one out as quickly as that without a bit of wind-up to begin with!  They were beautiful knobs, you know, you grasped them, and they filled your hand ? you knew you?d got hold of them.  Underneath each fader was a little pushbutton which queued up the next picture that RACKS was supposed to put on the preview channel for us in the Gallery.  In those days there were only two screens in the studio galleries - one was the transmitted picture and the one that RACKS put up on preview whichever that happened to be.  When you had a quick sequence, you had to yell down to RACKS to be able to bring the preview channel up quickly for you, otherwise, you?d be fading up channels without actually having seen them first!
>>   
>> For gardening programmes when we used to run a cable from Studio A, out over the balcony, down the front of the building and through a channel underneath the road to the garden on the other side of the road where Fred Streeter would do his programme.  We were always wondering if there was something he was going to hold that would have to be bought back in the studio.  This was always left until the last minute, someone would start taking it back, only to find it was needed back with Fred, and they had to bring it back quickly.  I didn?t do the camera work on the gardening programmes, but I did a lot of cable hauling.  On those days they used to stop the buses using anywhere in the park.  We had to have our badges to get through Alexandra Park and everybody else was kept out except for the buses - but the buses weren?t allowed to stop on their way through.
>>   
>> I remember we were bored a lot of the time, but somehow or other the whole thing seemed to be absolutely joyous.  We were all enthusiastic, we were all keen on doing the thing we were doing ? we didn?t care what we did particularly, as long as we were involved, and involved we certainly got ourselves!
>>   
>> The ?Dive? used to be absolutely beautiful in Spring when all the cherry blossom trees were in bloom.  With hindsight it was really and truly rather a dive!  It?s just that it was there, it was convenient and you could go over there just before the evening transmission and, ahh well . . . . it was a place to relax!
>>   
>> I hope the above has been of interest.
>>   
>> Many thanks
>>   
>> Simon
>>   
>>   
>> Simon Vaughan
>> Archivist
>> for and on behalf of
>> Alexandra Palace Television Society
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Tel:       +44 (0) 1332 729358
>> Mob:     +44 (0) 7791 780882
>> E-mail:  apts at apts.org.uk
>> Web:     www.apts.org.uk
>>                 www.youtube.com/aptsarchive
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> The Alexandra Palace Television Society is a not-for-profit organisation, dedicated to preserving for present and future generations, the oral and written history of the pioneers who inaugurated the world's first regular public high-definition television service from Alexandra Palace, north London, in 1936.
>>   
>> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.  If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the system manager: postmaster at apts.org.uk
>>   
>>   
>>   
>> From: Alec Bray <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 10:00
>> To: Simon Vaughan <simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com>
>> Cc: APTS Archivist <apts at apts.org.uk>, Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female camerawoman?
>>   
>> Hi Simon,
>> Thank you very much for the photos of the Emitron Cameras!  Thanks, too, for the explanation of the horizontal "bar". As I mentioned, I had not seen any photos of the original Emitrons with lens hoods - that front-on view is an interesting photo in its own right.  And I certainly did not release how many different "design iterations" there were for those early Emitrons  and I can see why you thought that she might be operating the camera!!
>> I have had another go at photo-manipulation.  The vertical cable seems to come from the bottom of the camera (viewfinder) and not from the lady's hand.
>> <image001.png>
>> The lady is wearing a bangle or a bangle which incorporates a wristwatch - it is clearer in some manipulations as to how the light is reflected.
>> <image002.png>       <image003.png>
>> Do we see the face of the watch in the photo where the lady is barely seen?
>> <image004.png>
>>   
>> Anyway, it seems that the lady in question is doing  "something" with something near to or attached to the camera:  it seems to be a smallish knob.or cylindrical object, perhaps mounted on a rectangular plinth sticking out from the side of the camera - tricky to see in the shadows.
>>   
>> <image005.png>
>>   
>> I hope that this is of interest!  I have reached the limit of what I can do to separate out the grey scale at this area.
>> A very intriguing picture, Simon - and with your photos of original Emitrons in various configurations you may be able to say what the lady is doing!
>> -- 
>> =======
>>   
>> Alec Bray
>>   
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> Mob:  07789 561 346
>> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>>   
>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>> <Molly Brownless - Article-Dec 1950.jpg><Molly Brownless - on camera 1946.jpg><Molly at AP - 02-1940s.jpg><Molly Brownless - 04.jpg><Molly Brownless - 03.jpg>--
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 23 09:18:01 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 15:18:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman
In-Reply-To: <7C8EC20F-FC39-4DF4-9806-F731330F8C4B@icloud.com>
References: <EFC165DA-2F92-4A74-B86F-12916532CD9B@apts.org.uk>
	<7C8EC20F-FC39-4DF4-9806-F731330F8C4B@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1a5690a5-f75a-0ea8-3b97-8aad0bfe25fc@gmail.com>

Not Alec, but Simon Vaughan, Archivist of the Alexandra Palace 
Television Society

B





On 23/07/2021 13:47, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote:
> Many thanks for posting that Alec. Absolutey fascinating to read. Perhaps the GTC should offer her honary membership!
> ?
> Graeme Wall
>
>
>> On 23 Jul 2021, at 12:40, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>  wrote:
>>
>> My apologies for not replying sooner to this thread, but I have been waiting for an email from Australia where I have tracked down the lady featured in the photograph I shared a couple of weeks ago.
>>   
>> The lady in question is Molly Brownless, (nee Heritage, then Frood), and she was operating the camera in the original photograph!  She was at AP before from April 1946 and was operating an Emitron on the re-opening day!  I?ve been corresponding with Eileen, Molly?s daughter, who was with her the day she received my email ? Molly remembers working on the ballet and has a great recall of her days working at AP.  Molly is now 101, loving life and is constantly busy.   After emigrating to Australia in 1951 she was a pioneer with Australian television when it was established and went on to have an important career within the industry.
>>   
>> Dr Jeannine Baker (who I give total credit for identifying Molly) has recorded a long interview with her, over three consecutive days.  Jeannine has recently given a talk to an Australian conference on Molly career and it will be featured on a new website for the National Film and Sound Archive of Australia.  She is also working on a book about women and technology in television covering the UK and Australia.
>>   
>> So, it would appear the first female camera operator was Molly Brownless ? she was at AP on re-opening day in June 1946 and was on her camera during the afternoon transmission.
>>   
>> I have attached some photographs of Molly when at AP in 1946, as well of some celebrating her 101st birthday.
>>   
>> Here are Molly?s memories of being at Alexandra Palace:
>>   
>> It was the beginning of April when we went to Alexandra Palace.  From them on we spent all our time trying to pick up whatever we could from people who were around, who were far too frantic to be doing much about our training.  And the girls were looked at somewhat aghast by those who were supposed to be giving what information they could.  I suppose we more or less gravitated towards the things that seemed to interest us mostly.  Audrey and Joan were happy enough on GRAMS, Isobel hung around Studio B watching whatever was going on in, as well us on the upstairs desk to see what she could pick up there.  Rachel was, as far as I remember, from the beginning in Studio A.
>>   
>> Before we actually reopened Alexandra Palace, in June 1946, there were seven girls on each shift.  First of all, when we started off, everyone was on days, and I didn?t really get to know the people then.  Everyone was working, or not working (as the case may be), hanging around the place trying to pick up what information they could.  I knew them by name, and you obviously got to know them properly later on when the shifts were changed around and so forth, but all the time I was there, there were just two shifts and we worked alternate days and even when one arranged a shift-swap, one didn?t see the person one swapped with because, well, they weren?t there when you were there - even though you could do that arranging.
>>   
>> The thing I seem to remember that made our life rather tedious at times was operating the switchboard.  It was up a little wooden ladder, going out of Maintenance at the back of A RACKS.  I think they put us up there to get us out from under their feet.  This little switchboard had very little capability - just two lines and Studio A, Studio B, RACKS, and I?ve forgotten who else was on that switchboard, but only a few.  If more than two people wanted to be connected at a time, it was not possible.  Anyway, we all had to cover it and I seemed to be on it whenever I wasn?t on the camera in the early days.   We also covered CCR at times and writing up the Log Book with timings.  I think I only did GRAMS about two or three times in all the years I was there.  I wasn?t very good at it; I somehow didn?t have the feel for it that some of the girls who came from recording did.  I?d been used to dealing with big pieces of equipment at Droitwich.  Somehow, I don?t know, those small pieces of equipment didn?t come easily to me.  I was fascinated by the cameras right from the beginning.
>>   
>> I remember a chap called George Rose who had been a pre-war vision mixer - when it was all blokes.  He was the only one who told any of us anything about vision mixing, as such.  Otherwise, we just picked it up by watching whatever went on.  When more of the girls came (and I can?t remember how long it was after the service reopened), but it was probably getting on for a year afterwards - we had somebody allocated to telecine.  You had to clean all those mirrors on the Mechau projectors - thirty-two, if I remember rightly ? (but I am not absolutely certain about that).  Occasionally, I remember having to operate the projector in the film unit downstairs.  This was where the new telecine was installed when it came, which Gordon Waters took over ? that was not long before I left.  I occasionally did Sound Floor, you know, shoving in a microphone either above or below on a stand - above or below the camera ? but, mostly, I did camerawork to begin with and, of course, that was my delight.
>>   
>> I started on cameras right from the first day ? the first day we put out a programme which was the day before the Victory Parade, which was a Friday, and it was the afternoon session in Studio B.  I was on Camera 3 (I was mostly on three whichever studio I was in) and so I didn?t, at that time, know very much about Ted Langley who was senior cameraman in Studio A, as Frank Cresswell was the senior camera man in Studio B.  The ?iron man? was not really moveable except when your camera was not ?on air?.  You could move the camera around obviously, but it was fairly heavy to move whilst you were actually on air.  You could push it with one foot as long as you kept your balance with the other one.  But the distance was only a matter of how far your legs would stretch and still keep your balance and keep control.
>>   
>> I was on that ?iron man? the day the service reopened.  I didn?t realise (in my na?ve way), that I was actually going to do the transmission.  I?d being doing the rehearsal, but I hadn?t sort of twigged that having done the rehearsal, I would necessarily do the transmission.  I thought that all these chaps that were dashing around being very, very, important were going to take over the camera and do it on the transmission and I was absolutely vapped when I found that I was doing it!  The next day it was the Outside Broadcast of the Victory Parade, while I was in the studio working on ?The Squadronnaires? (featuring Harry Lewis, Dame Vera Lynn?s husband).  That was a great time.
>>   
>> Now, lining up cameras ? that was a daily chore.  Each camera operator took it in turns to line-up their camera, starting with camera 1.  I was usually on either camera 3 or 4, so usually it was after morning tea before I got to line up my camera.  We pointed the camera at a chart, and it went on from there.  RACKS guided you as to what they saw on their screen, and you marked on your glass screen exactly where the picture limits were for that particular camera.  You went slightly beyond this limit, so you could see the boom microphone coming in from the top or something coming in from the sides before it got in shot.  We also had to watch out for getting a beam from one of the studio lights light in picture - it used to kill the camera.  There used to be a burning smell and the camera had to have a new tube.
>>   
>> We used to see a direct picture in the viewfinder.  The camera had two lenses, a lens which went straight to the camera and a lens to the side of it which gave the camera operator the same picture but, being a lens, it inverted it ? it was upside down and back to front.  You quickly learned to look at the picture and quickly balance it and go with the movement in the opposite direction to where you would expect to be going looking at the picture!  There was something else we had to worry about too and that was the power lags on the two lenses.  The one that went through to the camera was dead straight on, but the one on the side, of course, to keep on the same picture, had to come at a slight angle from the other one so your picture composition might not be exactly the same as the main camera.  So, you had to do a little bit of adjustment on that one too.
>>   
>> At the end of transmission, we had to wheel our cameras to the side of the studio and coil up the cables so that the floor of the studio was left clear, ready to build the sets for the next day?s programme.  It was a matter of honour that you didn?t leave the place looking a mess.  Ted Langley and Ben Blooman were very keen on this, so we had to watch ourselves and make sure everything was just so.
>>   
>> Now it was after Bimbi Harris came and I?d being doing camerawork for quite some time, and she wanted to do that - I?m not surprised, I thoroughly enjoyed it and didn?t see why she wouldn?t want too!  One day a reporter came from a television magazine and found out about there being a ?cameraman? who was female or maybe he found out about two, I?m not quite sure.  Henry Whiting told me that they wanted to do a publicity picture of me on a camera and I was rather tickled at the idea, as you can imagine.  I was actually in Studio A the day the reporter arrived ? working on a show.  At the end of the programme, I tried to find this photographer only to discover that Bimbi had already been photographed on Camera 2, which was the Crab!  I can understand why he would have taken her because she would certainly have taken a better picture than I would have done.  But, because she was photographed on a tracking camera and because she wasn?t the first female operator, the blokes were a bit peeved.  Bimbi hadn?t been at the Palace very long and I had been there for a few years at that point, they didn?t think she should have appeared on the tracking camera which, of course, is not one she would have operated, and they thought it should have been me.
>>   
>> Now the next thing that happened which was why I and Bimbi came off cameras  was due to the fact that the camera men wanted to get themselves a higher grade and they were trying to upgrade their pay in relation to the other operators around ? it was a very specialised job!  All the cameramen, as far as I know, including me, belonged to the Association of Senior Technicians, and they were expecting this Association to back their claim.  The Association didn?t like me being one of the camera crew because if I could do it then, obviously, it wasn?t such a very skilled job after all.  Henry, to avoid any splitting up of the blokes in the studio I presume, told me that I wouldn?t be able to do camerawork anymore.
>>   
>> I think everybody was a TA1 when went to Alexandra Palace, but I can?t remember it being stated as a requisite.  However, when we had been there some time a lot of chaps came out of the Forces, they had not necessarily been in the BBC before the War.  The BBC insisted those who were TA1?s would be B Grade.  Up until that time, the difference between operators and engineers had been an exam to get the status of B Grade, but they shifted it up a peg to C, so the exam was between D Grade and C, and that was the start of what became qualified ?Engineers? as opposed to us ?Operators?.  We were all still in the Engineering Division, but on different grades.  It meant an increase in salary, but not, if I remember correctly very much, and certainly not backdated so it wasn?t quite so startling.
>>   
>> I remember that somebody on the other shift was actually working quite hard to take the exam.  Bertie Baker, stated quite categorically that no female, even if they passed the exam, would be given a C Grade job, so we could pass the exam if we wanted too but we would still be B Grade.  And so, somewhat to my relief and certainly to the disgust of a number of people, who felt they should have had the same opportunity as the rest did, simmer down. I stayed on B Grade until I left.   Well, as you can imagine, I was pretty peeved about that, not just peeved, I was downright sick about the whole thing.  I don?t know who told Bimbi, it might have been Henry ? but, like me, she just wasn?t rostered on cameras again.  Anyway, that was my end of women operating cameras.  Henry decided that because I had been so disappointed about coming off cameras - he thought well, okay she can do some vision mixing and I went virtually from the floor on cameras to vision mixing most of the time.
>>   
>> When I got round to Vision Mixing we weren?t able to cut, we were only able to fade up and fade out.  A mix was achieved by bringing the fader up onto the first stop, waiting, and then turning it full up whenever we wanted it.  Because of the delay on the picture coming up, we couldn?t just bring one in and take one out as quickly as that without a bit of wind-up to begin with!  They were beautiful knobs, you know, you grasped them, and they filled your hand ? you knew you?d got hold of them.  Underneath each fader was a little pushbutton which queued up the next picture that RACKS was supposed to put on the preview channel for us in the Gallery.  In those days there were only two screens in the studio galleries - one was the transmitted picture and the one that RACKS put up on preview whichever that happened to be.  When you had a quick sequence, you had to yell down to RACKS to be able to bring the preview channel up quickly for you, otherwise, you?d be fading up channels without actually having seen them first!
>>   
>> For gardening programmes when we used to run a cable from Studio A, out over the balcony, down the front of the building and through a channel underneath the road to the garden on the other side of the road where Fred Streeter would do his programme.  We were always wondering if there was something he was going to hold that would have to be bought back in the studio.  This was always left until the last minute, someone would start taking it back, only to find it was needed back with Fred, and they had to bring it back quickly.  I didn?t do the camera work on the gardening programmes, but I did a lot of cable hauling.  On those days they used to stop the buses using anywhere in the park.  We had to have our badges to get through Alexandra Park and everybody else was kept out except for the buses - but the buses weren?t allowed to stop on their way through.
>>   
>> I remember we were bored a lot of the time, but somehow or other the whole thing seemed to be absolutely joyous.  We were all enthusiastic, we were all keen on doing the thing we were doing ? we didn?t care what we did particularly, as long as we were involved, and involved we certainly got ourselves!
>>   
>> The ?Dive? used to be absolutely beautiful in Spring when all the cherry blossom trees were in bloom.  With hindsight it was really and truly rather a dive!  It?s just that it was there, it was convenient and you could go over there just before the evening transmission and, ahh well . . . . it was a place to relax!
>>   
>> I hope the above has been of interest.
>>   
>> Many thanks
>>   
>> Simon
>>   
>>   
>> Simon Vaughan
>> Archivist
>> for and on behalf of
>> Alexandra Palace Television Society
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Tel:       +44 (0) 1332 729358
>> Mob:     +44 (0) 7791 780882
>> E-mail:apts at apts.org.uk
>> Web:www.apts.org.uk
>>                 www.youtube.com/aptsarchive
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> The Alexandra Palace Television Society is a not-for-profit organisation, dedicated to preserving for present and future generations, the oral and written history of the pioneers who inaugurated the world's first regular public high-definition television service from Alexandra Palace, north London, in 1936.
>>   
>> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.  If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the system manager:postmaster at apts.org.uk
>>   
>>   
>>   
>> From: Alec Bray<alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 10:00
>> To: Simon Vaughan<simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com>
>> Cc: APTS Archivist<apts at apts.org.uk>, Tech Ops<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female camerawoman?
>>   
>> Hi Simon,
>> Thank you very much for the photos of the Emitron Cameras!  Thanks, too, for the explanation of the horizontal "bar". As I mentioned, I had not seen any photos of the original Emitrons with lens hoods - that front-on view is an interesting photo in its own right.  And I certainly did not release how many different "design iterations" there were for those early Emitrons  and I can see why you thought that she might be operating the camera!!
>> I have had another go at photo-manipulation.  The vertical cable seems to come from the bottom of the camera (viewfinder) and not from the lady's hand.
>> <image001.png>
>> The lady is wearing a bangle or a bangle which incorporates a wristwatch - it is clearer in some manipulations as to how the light is reflected.
>> <image002.png>       <image003.png>
>> Do we see the face of the watch in the photo where the lady is barely seen?
>> <image004.png>
>>   
>> Anyway, it seems that the lady in question is doing  "something" with something near to or attached to the camera:  it seems to be a smallish knob.or cylindrical object, perhaps mounted on a rectangular plinth sticking out from the side of the camera - tricky to see in the shadows.
>>   
>> <image005.png>
>>   
>> I hope that this is of interest!  I have reached the limit of what I can do to separate out the grey scale at this area.
>> A very intriguing picture, Simon - and with your photos of original Emitrons in various configurations you may be able to say what the lady is doing!
>> -- 
>> =======
>>   
>> Alec Bray
>>   
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> Mob:  07789 561 346
>> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>>   
>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>> <Molly Brownless - Article-Dec 1950.jpg><Molly Brownless - on camera 1946.jpg><Molly at AP - 02-1940s.jpg><Molly Brownless - 04.jpg><Molly Brownless - 03.jpg>--
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Fri Jul 23 09:58:59 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 15:58:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman
In-Reply-To: <1a5690a5-f75a-0ea8-3b97-8aad0bfe25fc@gmail.com>
References: <EFC165DA-2F92-4A74-B86F-12916532CD9B@apts.org.uk>
	<7C8EC20F-FC39-4DF4-9806-F731330F8C4B@icloud.com>
	<1a5690a5-f75a-0ea8-3b97-8aad0bfe25fc@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9277320E-1F75-40DB-8346-6DF3D23DEB72@icloud.com>

Sorry Simon!
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 23 Jul 2021, at 15:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Not Alec, but Simon Vaughan, Archivist of the Alexandra Palace Television Society
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 23/07/2021 13:47, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote:
>> Many thanks for posting that Alec. Absolutey fascinating to read. Perhaps the GTC should offer her honary membership!
>> ? 
>> Graeme Wall
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 23 Jul 2021, at 12:40, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My apologies for not replying sooner to this thread, but I have been waiting for an email from Australia where I have tracked down the lady featured in the photograph I shared a couple of weeks ago.
>>>  
>>> The lady in question is Molly Brownless, (nee Heritage, then Frood), and she was operating the camera in the original photograph!  She was at AP before from April 1946 and was operating an Emitron on the re-opening day!  I?ve been corresponding with Eileen, Molly?s daughter, who was with her the day she received my email ? Molly remembers working on the ballet and has a great recall of her days working at AP.  Molly is now 101, loving life and is constantly busy.   After emigrating to Australia in 1951 she was a pioneer with Australian television when it was established and went on to have an important career within the industry.
>>>  
>>> Dr Jeannine Baker (who I give total credit for identifying Molly) has recorded a long interview with her, over three consecutive days.  Jeannine has recently given a talk to an Australian conference on Molly career and it will be featured on a new website for the National Film and Sound Archive of Australia.  She is also working on a book about women and technology in television covering the UK and Australia.
>>>  
>>> So, it would appear the first female camera operator was Molly Brownless ? she was at AP on re-opening day in June 1946 and was on her camera during the afternoon transmission.
>>>  
>>> I have attached some photographs of Molly when at AP in 1946, as well of some celebrating her 101st birthday.
>>>  
>>> Here are Molly?s memories of being at Alexandra Palace:
>>>  
>>> It was the beginning of April when we went to Alexandra Palace.  From them on we spent all our time trying to pick up whatever we could from people who were around, who were far too frantic to be doing much about our training.  And the girls were looked at somewhat aghast by those who were supposed to be giving what information they could.  I suppose we more or less gravitated towards the things that seemed to interest us mostly.  Audrey and Joan were happy enough on GRAMS, Isobel hung around Studio B watching whatever was going on in, as well us on the upstairs desk to see what she could pick up there.  Rachel was, as far as I remember, from the beginning in Studio A.   
>>>  
>>> Before we actually reopened Alexandra Palace, in June 1946, there were seven girls on each shift.  First of all, when we started off, everyone was on days, and I didn?t really get to know the people then.  Everyone was working, or not working (as the case may be), hanging around the place trying to pick up what information they could.  I knew them by name, and you obviously got to know them properly later on when the shifts were changed around and so forth, but all the time I was there, there were just two shifts and we worked alternate days and even when one arranged a shift-swap, one didn?t see the person one swapped with because, well, they weren?t there when you were there - even though you could do that arranging.  
>>>  
>>> The thing I seem to remember that made our life rather tedious at times was operating the switchboard.  It was up a little wooden ladder, going out of Maintenance at the back of A RACKS.  I think they put us up there to get us out from under their feet.  This little switchboard had very little capability - just two lines and Studio A, Studio B, RACKS, and I?ve forgotten who else was on that switchboard, but only a few.  If more than two people wanted to be connected at a time, it was not possible.  Anyway, we all had to cover it and I seemed to be on it whenever I wasn?t on the camera in the early days.   We also covered CCR at times and writing up the Log Book with timings.  I think I only did GRAMS about two or three times in all the years I was there.  I wasn?t very good at it; I somehow didn?t have the feel for it that some of the girls who came from recording did.  I?d been used to dealing with big pieces of equipment at Droitwich.  Somehow, I don?t know, those small pieces of equipment didn?t come easily to me.  I was fascinated by the cameras right from the beginning.
>>>  
>>> I remember a chap called George Rose who had been a pre-war vision mixer - when it was all blokes.  He was the only one who told any of us anything about vision mixing, as such.  Otherwise, we just picked it up by watching whatever went on.  When more of the girls came (and I can?t remember how long it was after the service reopened), but it was probably getting on for a year afterwards - we had somebody allocated to telecine.  You had to clean all those mirrors on the Mechau projectors - thirty-two, if I remember rightly ? (but I am not absolutely certain about that).  Occasionally, I remember having to operate the projector in the film unit downstairs.  This was where the new telecine was installed when it came, which Gordon Waters took over ? that was not long before I left.  I occasionally did Sound Floor, you know, shoving in a microphone either above or below on a stand - above or below the camera ? but, mostly, I did camerawork to begin with and, of course, that was my delight. 
>>>  
>>> I started on cameras right from the first day ? the first day we put out a programme which was the day before the Victory Parade, which was a Friday, and it was the afternoon session in Studio B.  I was on Camera 3 (I was mostly on three whichever studio I was in) and so I didn?t, at that time, know very much about Ted Langley who was senior cameraman in Studio A, as Frank Cresswell was the senior camera man in Studio B.  The ?iron man? was not really moveable except when your camera was not ?on air?.  You could move the camera around obviously, but it was fairly heavy to move whilst you were actually on air.  You could push it with one foot as long as you kept your balance with the other one.  But the distance was only a matter of how far your legs would stretch and still keep your balance and keep control.  
>>>  
>>> I was on that ?iron man? the day the service reopened.  I didn?t realise (in my na?ve way), that I was actually going to do the transmission.  I?d being doing the rehearsal, but I hadn?t sort of twigged that having done the rehearsal, I would necessarily do the transmission.  I thought that all these chaps that were dashing around being very, very, important were going to take over the camera and do it on the transmission and I was absolutely vapped when I found that I was doing it!  The next day it was the Outside Broadcast of the Victory Parade, while I was in the studio working on ?The Squadronnaires? (featuring Harry Lewis, Dame Vera Lynn?s husband).  That was a great time. 
>>>  
>>> Now, lining up cameras ? that was a daily chore.  Each camera operator took it in turns to line-up their camera, starting with camera 1.  I was usually on either camera 3 or 4, so usually it was after morning tea before I got to line up my camera.  We pointed the camera at a chart, and it went on from there.  RACKS guided you as to what they saw on their screen, and you marked on your glass screen exactly where the picture limits were for that particular camera.  You went slightly beyond this limit, so you could see the boom microphone coming in from the top or something coming in from the sides before it got in shot.  We also had to watch out for getting a beam from one of the studio lights light in picture - it used to kill the camera.  There used to be a burning smell and the camera had to have a new tube. 
>>>  
>>> We used to see a direct picture in the viewfinder.  The camera had two lenses, a lens which went straight to the camera and a lens to the side of it which gave the camera operator the same picture but, being a lens, it inverted it ? it was upside down and back to front.  You quickly learned to look at the picture and quickly balance it and go with the movement in the opposite direction to where you would expect to be going looking at the picture!  There was something else we had to worry about too and that was the power lags on the two lenses.  The one that went through to the camera was dead straight on, but the one on the side, of course, to keep on the same picture, had to come at a slight angle from the other one so your picture composition might not be exactly the same as the main camera.  So, you had to do a little bit of adjustment on that one too. 
>>>  
>>> At the end of transmission, we had to wheel our cameras to the side of the studio and coil up the cables so that the floor of the studio was left clear, ready to build the sets for the next day?s programme.  It was a matter of honour that you didn?t leave the place looking a mess.  Ted Langley and Ben Blooman were very keen on this, so we had to watch ourselves and make sure everything was just so.
>>>  
>>> Now it was after Bimbi Harris came and I?d being doing camerawork for quite some time, and she wanted to do that - I?m not surprised, I thoroughly enjoyed it and didn?t see why she wouldn?t want too!  One day a reporter came from a television magazine and found out about there being a ?cameraman? who was female or maybe he found out about two, I?m not quite sure.  Henry Whiting told me that they wanted to do a publicity picture of me on a camera and I was rather tickled at the idea, as you can imagine.  I was actually in Studio A the day the reporter arrived ? working on a show.  At the end of the programme, I tried to find this photographer only to discover that Bimbi had already been photographed on Camera 2, which was the Crab!  I can understand why he would have taken her because she would certainly have taken a better picture than I would have done.  But, because she was photographed on a tracking camera and because she wasn?t the first female operator, the blokes were a bit peeved.  Bimbi hadn?t been at the Palace very long and I had been there for a few years at that point, they didn?t think she should have appeared on the tracking camera which, of course, is not one she would have operated, and they thought it should have been me.
>>>  
>>> Now the next thing that happened which was why I and Bimbi came off cameras  was due to the fact that the camera men wanted to get themselves a higher grade and they were trying to upgrade their pay in relation to the other operators around ? it was a very specialised job!  All the cameramen, as far as I know, including me, belonged to the Association of Senior Technicians, and they were expecting this Association to back their claim.  The Association didn?t like me being one of the camera crew because if I could do it then, obviously, it wasn?t such a very skilled job after all.  Henry, to avoid any splitting up of the blokes in the studio I presume, told me that I wouldn?t be able to do camerawork anymore.  
>>>  
>>> I think everybody was a TA1 when went to Alexandra Palace, but I can?t remember it being stated as a requisite.  However, when we had been there some time a lot of chaps came out of the Forces, they had not necessarily been in the BBC before the War.  The BBC insisted those who were TA1?s would be B Grade.  Up until that time, the difference between operators and engineers had been an exam to get the status of B Grade, but they shifted it up a peg to C, so the exam was between D Grade and C, and that was the start of what became qualified ?Engineers? as opposed to us ?Operators?.  We were all still in the Engineering Division, but on different grades.  It meant an increase in salary, but not, if I remember correctly very much, and certainly not backdated so it wasn?t quite so startling.  
>>>  
>>> I remember that somebody on the other shift was actually working quite hard to take the exam.  Bertie Baker, stated quite categorically that no female, even if they passed the exam, would be given a C Grade job, so we could pass the exam if we wanted too but we would still be B Grade.  And so, somewhat to my relief and certainly to the disgust of a number of people, who felt they should have had the same opportunity as the rest did, simmer down. I stayed on B Grade until I left.   Well, as you can imagine, I was pretty peeved about that, not just peeved, I was downright sick about the whole thing.  I don?t know who told Bimbi, it might have been Henry ? but, like me, she just wasn?t rostered on cameras again.  Anyway, that was my end of women operating cameras.  Henry decided that because I had been so disappointed about coming off cameras - he thought well, okay she can do some vision mixing and I went virtually from the floor on cameras to vision mixing most of the time.  
>>>  
>>> When I got round to Vision Mixing we weren?t able to cut, we were only able to fade up and fade out.  A mix was achieved by bringing the fader up onto the first stop, waiting, and then turning it full up whenever we wanted it.  Because of the delay on the picture coming up, we couldn?t just bring one in and take one out as quickly as that without a bit of wind-up to begin with!  They were beautiful knobs, you know, you grasped them, and they filled your hand ? you knew you?d got hold of them.  Underneath each fader was a little pushbutton which queued up the next picture that RACKS was supposed to put on the preview channel for us in the Gallery.  In those days there were only two screens in the studio galleries - one was the transmitted picture and the one that RACKS put up on preview whichever that happened to be.  When you had a quick sequence, you had to yell down to RACKS to be able to bring the preview channel up quickly for you, otherwise, you?d be fading up channels without actually having seen them first! 
>>>  
>>> For gardening programmes when we used to run a cable from Studio A, out over the balcony, down the front of the building and through a channel underneath the road to the garden on the other side of the road where Fred Streeter would do his programme.  We were always wondering if there was something he was going to hold that would have to be bought back in the studio.  This was always left until the last minute, someone would start taking it back, only to find it was needed back with Fred, and they had to bring it back quickly.  I didn?t do the camera work on the gardening programmes, but I did a lot of cable hauling.  On those days they used to stop the buses using anywhere in the park.  We had to have our badges to get through Alexandra Park and everybody else was kept out except for the buses - but the buses weren?t allowed to stop on their way through.   
>>>  
>>> I remember we were bored a lot of the time, but somehow or other the whole thing seemed to be absolutely joyous.  We were all enthusiastic, we were all keen on doing the thing we were doing ? we didn?t care what we did particularly, as long as we were involved, and involved we certainly got ourselves!
>>>  
>>> The ?Dive? used to be absolutely beautiful in Spring when all the cherry blossom trees were in bloom.  With hindsight it was really and truly rather a dive!  It?s just that it was there, it was convenient and you could go over there just before the evening transmission and, ahh well . . . . it was a place to relax! 
>>>  
>>> I hope the above has been of interest.
>>>  
>>> Many thanks
>>>  
>>> Simon
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Simon Vaughan
>>> Archivist
>>> for and on behalf of
>>> Alexandra Palace Television Society
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> Tel:       +44 (0) 1332 729358
>>> Mob:     +44 (0) 7791 780882
>>> E-mail:  
>>> apts at apts.org.uk
>>> 
>>> Web:     
>>> www.apts.org.uk
>>> 
>>>                
>>> www.youtube.com/aptsarchive
>>> 
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> The Alexandra Palace Television Society is a not-for-profit organisation, dedicated to preserving for present and future generations, the oral and written history of the pioneers who inaugurated the world's first regular public high-definition television service from Alexandra Palace, north London, in 1936.
>>>  
>>> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.  If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the system manager: 
>>> postmaster at apts.org.uk
>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: Alec Bray 
>>> <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
>>> 
>>> Date: Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 10:00
>>> To: Simon Vaughan 
>>> <simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com>
>>> 
>>> Cc: APTS Archivist 
>>> <apts at apts.org.uk>, Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female camerawoman?
>>>  
>>> Hi Simon,
>>> Thank you very much for the photos of the Emitron Cameras!  Thanks, too, for the explanation of the horizontal "bar". As I mentioned, I had not seen any photos of the original Emitrons with lens hoods - that front-on view is an interesting photo in its own right.  And I certainly did not release how many different "design iterations" there were for those early Emitrons  and I can see why you thought that she might be operating the camera!!
>>> I have had another go at photo-manipulation.  The vertical cable seems to come from the bottom of the camera (viewfinder) and not from the lady's hand.
>>> <image001.png>
>>> The lady is wearing a bangle or a bangle which incorporates a wristwatch - it is clearer in some manipulations as to how the light is reflected.
>>> <image002.png>       <image003.png>   
>>> Do we see the face of the watch in the photo where the lady is barely seen?
>>> <image004.png>
>>>  
>>> Anyway, it seems that the lady in question is doing  "something" with something near to or attached to the camera:  it seems to be a smallish knob.or cylindrical object, perhaps mounted on a rectangular plinth sticking out from the side of the camera - tricky to see in the shadows.
>>>  
>>> <image005.png>
>>>  
>>> I hope that this is of interest!  I have reached the limit of what I can do to separate out the grey scale at this area.
>>> A very intriguing picture, Simon - and with your photos of original Emitrons in various configurations you may be able to say what the lady is doing!
>>> -- 
>>> =======
>>>  
>>> Alec Bray
>>>  
>>> 
>>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> Mob:  07789 561 346
>>> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>>>  
>>> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
>>> 
>>> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>>> 
>>> <Molly Brownless - Article-Dec 1950.jpg><Molly Brownless - on camera 1946.jpg><Molly at AP - 02-1940s.jpg><Molly Brownless - 04.jpg><Molly Brownless - 03.jpg>-- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> 
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Jul 23 09:36:55 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 16:36:55 +0200
Subject: [Tech1] Phone calls
Message-ID: <cc0d6e05-e47b-9faf-9f64-94a3a4ec5423@btinternet.com>

I have just had another one from the police! This time the Detective 
Constable claims that they have arrested a young man called Derek Mundy 
who lives with us, do I recognise the name? Of course I don't . So I 
asked him his shoulder number and he gave me a long warrant number and 
said he was in Hammersmith where the offence of money laundering had 
taken place. I said that I had a phone caall from the police not long 
ago which turned out to be a coplete fake so I was very wary about 
talking to the police and the line suddenly went strange with some beeps 
and a female voice if she could help and then 'F**K OFF' . Amazing isn't 
it? Cheers, Dave



From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Jul 23 10:52:36 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 16:52:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman
In-Reply-To: <1a5690a5-f75a-0ea8-3b97-8aad0bfe25fc@gmail.com>
References: <1a5690a5-f75a-0ea8-3b97-8aad0bfe25fc@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2E13EB34-ADB8-4DB6-99A3-43A78157AF12@me.com>

It was fascinating to read a first hand description of how vision mixing was done in the late 1930s and 1940s.  I?ve read a bit about it, but have never understood exactly why it took a few seconds to fade from one camera to another.

I always assumed that it was something to do with synchronisation, but have never found out exactly what was going on.  I asked a friend who was prominent in the BECG, who basically said that it had been discussed amongst members and was something to do with synchronisation, so I didn?t feel much the wiser.

Is anybody here able to offer a more detailed explanation? I noted that the fader was inched up a little and that she waited a couple of seconds before actually fading up, but waited for what?  How did she know when it was OK to fade and what would have happened if she instantly crashed the fader open?

Alan Taylor

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Fri Jul 23 11:29:24 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 17:29:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman
In-Reply-To: <2E13EB34-ADB8-4DB6-99A3-43A78157AF12@me.com>
References: <1a5690a5-f75a-0ea8-3b97-8aad0bfe25fc@gmail.com>
	<2E13EB34-ADB8-4DB6-99A3-43A78157AF12@me.com>
Message-ID: <c56953e7-d1ca-6583-d7b7-b9ee43c1b3d5@chriswoolf.co.uk>

I have to admit that the description doesn't make complete sense to me.

To cut or mix pictures without a bump or tearing, the two sources have 
to be running in sync. In the early days with OBs that source was 
non-synchronous so you could ~only~ cut to and from them, and had to 
accept a frame bump.

Within studios the old system of synchronisation was to feed all cameras 
with line and field "drives", plus syncs and blanking waveforms - all 
derived from a central pulse generator. These signals ensured that all 
scanning was synchronous,. The only variable was "timing" which added a 
degree of delay to compensate for camera cable lengths - this shifted 
the picture marginally sideways. Timing was normally part of standard 
camera line-up.

This should have meant that all transitions were possible. However...

There's a piece by Mary Ticehurst 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06qsyqq? which gives much the same 
tale about delays in vision mixing. Reading between the lines the 
problem was not the mixer equipment, but the fact that racks had to 
preview and adjust every picture before it could be used. This was prior 
to the one-man vision control era, when all cameras became kept in a 
state of picture readiness at all times. Mary Ticehurst describes a sort 
of preview warning light to racks that a shot was about to be used, and 
essentially they had to agree it was OK before she could actually fade 
it up. I'm not sure what the reverse protocol was.

She does say that all transitions were fades or mixes, but that fast 
cross-fades could be made to look like cuts. This points to fully 
synchronous sources with studios. The problem of a cut button seems to 
have been solved later - it probably just needed a method of delaying 
the button push to coincide with a frame pulse to produce a bumpless switch.

Chris Woolf



On 23/07/2021 16:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> It was fascinating to read a first hand description of how vision mixing was done in the late 1930s and 1940s.  I?ve read a bit about it, but have never understood exactly why it took a few seconds to fade from one camera to another.
>
> I always assumed that it was something to do with synchronisation, but have never found out exactly what was going on.  I asked a friend who was prominent in the BECG, who basically said that it had been discussed amongst members and was something to do with synchronisation, so I didn?t feel much the wiser.
>
> Is anybody here able to offer a more detailed explanation? I noted that the fader was inched up a little and that she waited a couple of seconds before actually fading up, but waited for what?  How did she know when it was OK to fade and what would have happened if she instantly crashed the fader open?
>
> Alan Taylor

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 23 12:25:16 2021
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 18:25:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone calls and scam emails
In-Reply-To: <cc0d6e05-e47b-9faf-9f64-94a3a4ec5423@btinternet.com>
References: <cc0d6e05-e47b-9faf-9f64-94a3a4ec5423@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <93118148-AD3F-424A-9D47-FAF1F08441E7@gmail.com>

I had an email from the DVLA yesterday saying that they were having to rebuild their database and all drivers were required to re-register and give their driver numbers or, guess what, our licences would be revoked and we?d have to undergo a driving test to get them back.
This was a new one on me and the website address looked very convincing but the sender?s email address was suspicious, as was the whole idea, so I deleted it immediately. I?m wishing that I?d forwarded it to the phishing address but it?s too late now as it?s not in my bin or junk folder,
Geoff Hawkes

> On 23 Jul 2021, at 16:37, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I have just had another one from the police! This time the Detective Constable claims that they have arrested a young man called Derek Mundy who lives with us, do I recognise the name? Of course I don't . So I asked him his shoulder number and he gave me a long warrant number and said he was in Hammersmith where the offence of money laundering had taken place. I said that I had a phone caall from the police not long ago which turned out to be a coplete fake so I was very wary about talking to the police and the line suddenly went strange with some beeps and a female voice if she could help and then 'F**K OFF' . Amazing isn't it? Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Jul 23 13:04:11 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 19:04:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawoman
In-Reply-To: <c56953e7-d1ca-6583-d7b7-b9ee43c1b3d5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <c56953e7-d1ca-6583-d7b7-b9ee43c1b3d5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <95E21CE3-9995-4878-8CA8-839100627D65@me.com>

I too was intrigued by her mention of a sort of preview button, but didn?t initially attach too much importance to it, but you might be onto something there with your comments about ensuring camera readiness.

My interest in AP was triggered from trying to research the first OB scanner, MCR1.  There isn?t too much technical info about MCR1, but one useful fact is that it was effectively a complete replica of the original AP racks and production control areas all scooped up and squeezed into a van.  There was initially just one ?high definition? 405 line control room and studio at AP.  When Baird?s mechanical system was abandoned, his studio became a second studio, sharing that original control room.  Eventually they built a dedicated control room for the second studio by replicating the layout of MCR1. One account claims that the layout even featured the space where the spare wheel was carried on MCR1. 

The reason why I think the preview button sounds plausible is that MCR1 ( and presumably the two studios ) only had two monitors for a three camera setup.  One monitor was obviously always the transmission monitor, so the second monitor had to be switched as needed.  Unless the second monitor was showing the forthcoming camera, neither the engineers nor the production team would know what the camera shot looked like.  A stand-by cue light might be the perfect way to deal with this situation. It still leaves me wondering why the fader is cracked off it?s back stop first?  Did that action operate the stand by lamp for the racks engineers, or even switch the second monitor directly? Otherwise the vision mixer could presumably signal her intention of intending to cut to camera n by pressing a stand-by button and then waiting for racks to give a thumbs up before actually cross-fading.

As far as I can establish, all three cameras within a studio or the scanner took their pulses from a central SPG and should therefore be synchronous with the other two, the major variable being timing issues arising from different cable lengths, but once adjusted,  it wouldn?t change during the show. It sounds to me as though they should have been able to cut and fade to their heart?s content without too many timing or sync issues, so I think that the technical explanation for crossfades taking a few seconds is more likely to do with ensuring camera readiness. More weight for that theory comes from noting that when anybody refers to the delay, the time they state is usually vague ( such as two or three seconds ), which sounds consistent with a human needing to OK it.  If it were a technical limitation, I would expect the delay to be precisely defined. 

Incidentally, if anybody tries to check out the layout of MCR1, there are maybe a dozen photographs around online, but some of them have been reversed L-R. It?s not at all obvious because the layout is broadly symmetrical to the casual observer and there is nothing prominent with lettering or a clock face to give the game away. I was struggling to find a definitive picture establishing which way round was correct and then remembered that there was some movie film shot inside MCR1.  I felt pretty confident that moving pictures were not reversed. 

Alan Taylor


> On 23 Jul 2021, at 17:30, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I have to admit that the description doesn't make complete sense to me.
> 
> To cut or mix pictures without a bump or tearing, the two sources have to be running in sync. In the early days with OBs that source was non-synchronous so you could ~only~ cut to and from them, and had to accept a frame bump.
> 
> Within studios the old system of synchronisation was to feed all cameras with line and field "drives", plus syncs and blanking waveforms - all derived from a central pulse generator. These signals ensured that all scanning was synchronous,. The only variable was "timing" which added a degree of delay to compensate for camera cable lengths - this shifted the picture marginally sideways. Timing was normally part of standard camera line-up.
> 
> This should have meant that all transitions were possible. However...
> 
> There's a piece by Mary Ticehurst https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06qsyqq  which gives much the same tale about delays in vision mixing. Reading between the lines the problem was not the mixer equipment, but the fact that racks had to preview and adjust every picture before it could be used. This was prior to the one-man vision control era, when all cameras became kept in a state of picture readiness at all times. Mary Ticehurst describes a sort of preview warning light to racks that a shot was about to be used, and essentially they had to agree it was OK before she could actually fade it up. I'm not sure what the reverse protocol was.
> 
> She does say that all transitions were fades or mixes, but that fast cross-fades could be made to look like cuts. This points to fully synchronous sources with studios. The problem of a cut button seems to have been solved later - it probably just needed a method of delaying the button push to coincide with a frame pulse to produce a bumpless switch.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> 
>> On 23/07/2021 16:52, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> It was fascinating to read a first hand description of how vision mixing was done in the late 1930s and 1940s.  I?ve read a bit about it, but have never understood exactly why it took a few seconds to fade from one camera to another.
>> I always assumed that it was something to do with synchronisation, but have never found out exactly what was going on.  I asked a friend who was prominent in the BECG, who basically said that it had been discussed amongst members and was something to do with synchronisation, so I didn?t feel much the wiser.
>> Is anybody here able to offer a more detailed explanation? I noted that the fader was inched up a little and that she waited a couple of seconds before actually fading up, but waited for what?  How did she know when it was OK to fade and what would have happened if she instantly crashed the fader open?
>> Alan Taylor
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Jul 23 13:11:30 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 20:11:30 +0200
Subject: [Tech1] Phone calls and scam emails
In-Reply-To: <93118148-AD3F-424A-9D47-FAF1F08441E7@gmail.com>
References: <cc0d6e05-e47b-9faf-9f64-94a3a4ec5423@btinternet.com>
	<93118148-AD3F-424A-9D47-FAF1F08441E7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3d441db9-408d-d41c-9797-d4d3bf5ada9f@btinternet.com>

Well spotted Geoff! I had a letter from the DVLA yesterday to tell me to 
renew my driving licence as it expired on 30.10.2020! Of course, I knew 
that and also they had extended everbody's licences, which expired 
between 1.2.2020 and 31.12.2020, by 11 months! So the time has come to 
really renew it! Cheers, Dave

On 23/07/2021 19:25, Geoffrey Hawkes wrote:
> I had an email from the DVLA yesterday saying that they were having to rebuild their database and all drivers were required to re-register and give their driver numbers or, guess what, our licences would be revoked and we?d have to undergo a driving test to get them back.
> This was a new one on me and the website address looked very convincing but the sender?s email address was suspicious, as was the whole idea, so I deleted it immediately. I?m wishing that I?d forwarded it to the phishing address but it?s too late now as it?s not in my bin or junk folder,
> Geoff Hawkes
>
>> On 23 Jul 2021, at 16:37, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?I have just had another one from the police! This time the Detective Constable claims that they have arrested a young man called Derek Mundy who lives with us, do I recognise the name? Of course I don't . So I asked him his shoulder number and he gave me a long warrant number and said he was in Hammersmith where the offence of money laundering had taken place. I said that I had a phone caall from the police not long ago which turned out to be a coplete fake so I was very wary about talking to the police and the line suddenly went strange with some beeps and a female voice if she could help and then 'F**K OFF' . Amazing isn't it? Cheers, Dave
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From mike.jdg.minchin at gmail.com  Fri Jul 23 15:51:09 2021
From: mike.jdg.minchin at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 21:51:09 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawomanM
In-Reply-To: <EFC165DA-2F92-4A74-B86F-12916532CD9B@apts.org.uk>
References: <EFC165DA-2F92-4A74-B86F-12916532CD9B@apts.org.uk>
Message-ID: <c59c23d4-fd33-b8aa-53b0-ef8bfb14a58a@gmail.com>

I have been intrigued by this thread.? When I joined Tech.Ops in 1960 
the understanding was that the group of Lady Vision mixers "of a certain 
age" had been recruited in around 1946 as Camera operators while the men 
were still in the army.? Molly's reminiscences sort of support this 
story (though she was with the BBC earlier than 1946).? What I now find 
interesting was her mention of a colleague called Rachel.? Could that be 
the legendary Rachel Blaney, famed for the double clunk as she kept the 
next camera on the Preview Monitor?? It ties in with the way that Molly 
had to "mix".

Mike Minchin

On 23/07/2021 12:40, Alexandra Palace Television Society via Tech1 wrote:
>
> My apologies for not replying sooner to this thread, but I have been 
> waiting for an email from Australia where I have tracked down the lady 
> featured in the photograph I shared a couple of weeks ago.
>
> The lady in question is Molly Brownless, (nee Heritage, then Frood), 
> and she was operating the camera in the original photograph!? She was 
> at AP before from April 1946 and was operating an Emitron on the 
> re-opening day!? I?ve been corresponding with Eileen, Molly?s 
> daughter, who was with her the day she received my email ? Molly 
> remembers working on the ballet and has a great recall of her days 
> working at AP.? Molly is now 101, loving life and is constantly busy. 
> After emigrating to Australia in 1951 she was a pioneer with 
> Australian television when it was established and went on to have an 
> important career within the industry.
>
> Dr Jeannine Baker (who I give total credit for identifying Molly) has 
> recorded a long interview with her, over three consecutive days.? 
> Jeannine has recently given a talk to an Australian conference on 
> Molly career and it will be featured on a new website for the National 
> Film and Sound Archive of Australia.? She is also working on a book 
> about women and technology in television covering the UK and Australia.
>
> So, it would appear the first female camera operator was Molly 
> Brownless ? she was at AP on re-opening day in June 1946 and was on 
> her camera during the afternoon transmission.
>
> I have attached some photographs of Molly when at AP in 1946, as well 
> of some celebrating her 101^st birthday.
>
> Here are Molly?s memories of being at Alexandra Palace:
>
> /It was the beginning of April when we went to Alexandra Palace.? From 
> them on we spent all our time trying to pick up whatever we could from 
> people who were around, who were far too frantic to be doing much 
> about our training.? And the girls were looked at somewhat aghast by 
> those who were supposed to be giving what information they could.? I 
> suppose we more or less gravitated towards the things that seemed to 
> interest us mostly.? Audrey and Joan were happy enough on GRAMS, 
> Isobel hung around Studio B watching whatever was going on in, as well 
> us on the upstairs desk to see what she could pick up there.? Rachel 
> was, as far as I remember, from the beginning in Studio A. /
>
> //
>
> /Before we actually reopened Alexandra Palace, in June 1946, there 
> were seven girls on each shift.? First of all, when we started off, 
> everyone was on days, and I didn?t really get to know the people 
> then.? Everyone was working, or not working (as the case may be), 
> hanging around the place trying to pick up what information they 
> could.? I knew them by name, and you obviously got to know them 
> properly later on when the shifts were changed around and so forth, 
> but all the time I was there, there were just two shifts and we worked 
> alternate days and even when one arranged a shift-swap, one didn?t see 
> the person one swapped with because, well, they weren?t there when you 
> were there - even though you could do that arranging. ///
>
> //
>
> /The thing I seem to remember that made our life rather tedious at 
> times was operating the switchboard.? It was up a little wooden 
> ladder, going out of Maintenance at the back of A RACKS.? I think they 
> put us up there to get us out from under their feet.? This little 
> switchboard had very little capability - just two lines and Studio A, 
> Studio B, RACKS, and I?ve forgotten who else was on that switchboard, 
> but only a few.? If more than two people wanted to be connected at a 
> time, it was not possible.? Anyway, we all had to cover it and I 
> seemed to be on it whenever I wasn?t on the camera in the early 
> days.?? We also covered CCR at times and writing up the Log Book with 
> timings.? I think I only did GRAMS about two or three times in all the 
> years I was there.? I wasn?t very good at it; I somehow didn?t have 
> the feel for it that some of the girls who came from recording did.? 
> I?d been used to dealing with big pieces of equipment at Droitwich.? 
> Somehow, I don?t know, those small pieces of equipment didn?t come 
> easily to me. ?I was fascinated by the cameras right from the beginning./
>
> //
>
> /I remember a chap called George Rose who had been a pre-war vision 
> mixer - when it was all blokes.? He was the only one who told any of 
> us anything about vision mixing, as such.? Otherwise, we just picked 
> it up by watching whatever went on.? When more of the girls came (and 
> I can?t remember how long it was after the service reopened), but it 
> was probably getting on for a year afterwards - we had somebody 
> allocated to telecine. You had to clean all those mirrors on the 
> Mechau projectors - thirty-two, if I remember rightly ? (but I am not 
> absolutely certain about that).? Occasionally, I remember having to 
> operate the projector in the film unit downstairs.? This was where the 
> new telecine was installed when it came, which Gordon Waters took over 
> ? that was not long before I left.? I occasionally did Sound Floor, 
> you know, shoving in a microphone either above or below on a stand - 
> above or below the camera ? but, mostly, I did camerawork to begin 
> with and, of course, that was my delight. /
>
> //
>
> /I started on cameras right from the first day ? the first day we put 
> out a programme which was the day before the Victory Parade, which was 
> a Friday, and it was the afternoon session in Studio B.? I was on 
> Camera 3 (I was mostly on three whichever studio I was in) and so I 
> didn?t, at that time, know very much about Ted Langley who was senior 
> cameraman in Studio A, as Frank Cresswell was the senior camera man in 
> Studio B.? The ?iron man? was not really moveable except when your 
> camera was not ?on air?.? You could move the camera around obviously, 
> but it was fairly heavy to move whilst you were actually on air.? You 
> could push it with one foot as long as you kept your balance with the 
> other one.? But the distance was only a matter of how far your legs 
> would stretch and still keep your balance and keep control. /
>
> //
>
> /I was on that ?iron man? the day the service reopened.? I didn?t 
> realise (in my na?ve way), that I was actually going to do the 
> transmission.? I?d being doing the rehearsal, but I hadn?t sort of 
> twigged that having done the rehearsal, I would necessarily do the 
> transmission.? I thought that all these chaps that were dashing around 
> being very, very, important were going to take over the camera and do 
> it on the transmission and I was absolutely vapped when I found that I 
> was doing it! The next day it was the Outside Broadcast of the Victory 
> Parade, while I was in the studio working on ?The Squadronnaires? 
> (featuring Harry Lewis, Dame Vera Lynn?s husband).? That was a great 
> time. ///
>
> //
>
> /Now, lining up cameras ? that was a daily chore.? Each camera 
> operator took it in turns to line-up their camera, starting with 
> camera 1.? I was usually on either camera 3 or 4, so usually it was 
> after morning tea before I got to line up my camera.? We pointed the 
> camera at a chart, and it went on from there.? RACKS guided you as to 
> what they saw on their screen, and you marked on your glass screen 
> exactly where the picture limits were for that particular camera.? You 
> went slightly beyond this limit, so you could see the boom microphone 
> coming in from the top or something coming in from the sides before it 
> got in shot. We also had to watch out for getting a beam from one of 
> the studio lights light in picture - it used to kill the camera.? 
> There used to be a burning smell and the camera had to have a new 
> tube. ///
>
> //
>
> /We used to see a direct picture in the viewfinder.? The camera had 
> two lenses, a lens which went straight to the camera and a lens to the 
> side of it which gave the camera operator the same picture but, being 
> a lens, it inverted it ? it was upside down and back to front.? You 
> quickly learned to look at the picture and quickly balance it and go 
> with the movement in the opposite direction to where you would expect 
> to be going looking at the picture!? There was something else we had 
> to worry about too and that was the power lags on the two lenses.? The 
> one that went through to the camera was dead straight on, but the one 
> on the side, of course, to keep on the same picture, had to come at a 
> slight angle from the other one so your picture composition might not 
> be exactly the same as the main camera.? So, you had to do a little 
> bit of adjustment on that one too. /
>
> //
>
> /At the end of transmission, we had to wheel our cameras to the side 
> of the studio and coil up the cables so that the floor of the studio 
> was left clear, ready to build the sets for the next day?s programme.? 
> It was a matter of honour that you didn?t leave the place looking a 
> mess. Ted Langley and Ben Blooman were very keen on this, so we had to 
> watch ourselves and make sure everything was just so.///
>
> //
>
> /Now it was after Bimbi Harris came and I?d being doing camerawork for 
> quite some time, and she wanted to do that - I?m not surprised, I 
> thoroughly enjoyed it and didn?t see why she wouldn?t want too!? One 
> day a reporter came from a television magazine and found out about 
> there being a ?cameraman? who was female or maybe he found out about 
> two, I?m not quite sure.? Henry Whiting told me that they wanted to do 
> a publicity picture of me on a camera and I was rather tickled at the 
> idea, as you can imagine.? I was actually in Studio A the day the 
> reporter arrived ? working on a show.? At the end of the programme, I 
> tried to find this photographer only to discover that Bimbi had 
> already been photographed on Camera 2, which was the Crab!? I can 
> understand why he would have taken her because she would certainly 
> have taken a better picture than I would have done.? But, because she 
> was photographed on a tracking camera and because she wasn?t the first 
> female operator, the blokes were a bit peeved.? Bimbi hadn?t been at 
> the Palace very long and I had been there for a few years at that 
> point, they didn?t think she should have appeared on the tracking 
> camera which, of course, is not one she would have operated, and they 
> thought it should have been me./
>
> //
>
> /Now the next thing that happened which was why I and Bimbi came off 
> cameras ?was due to the fact that the camera men wanted to get 
> themselves a higher grade and they were trying to upgrade their pay in 
> relation to the other operators around ? it was a very specialised 
> job!? All the cameramen, as far as I know, including me, belonged to 
> the Association of Senior Technicians, and they were expecting this 
> Association to back their claim.? The Association didn?t like me being 
> one of the camera crew because if I could do it then, obviously, it 
> wasn?t such a very skilled job after all.? Henry, to avoid any 
> splitting up of the blokes in the studio I presume, told me that I 
> wouldn?t be able to do camerawork anymore. /
>
> //
>
> /I think everybody was a TA1 when went to Alexandra Palace, but I 
> can?t remember it being stated as a requisite.? However, when we had 
> been there some time a lot of chaps came out of the Forces, they had 
> not necessarily been in the BBC before the War.? The BBC insisted 
> those who were TA1?s would be B Grade.? Up until that time, the 
> difference between operators and engineers had been an exam to get the 
> status of B Grade, but they shifted it up a peg to C, so the exam was 
> between D Grade and C, and that was the start of what became qualified 
> ?Engineers? as opposed to us ?Operators?.? We were all still in the 
> Engineering Division, but on different grades.? It meant an increase 
> in salary, but not, if I remember correctly very much, and certainly 
> not backdated so it wasn?t quite so startling. /
>
> //
>
> /I remember that somebody on the other shift was actually working 
> quite hard to take the exam.? Bertie Baker, stated quite categorically 
> that no female, even if they passed the exam, would be given a C Grade 
> job, so we could pass the exam if we wanted too but we would still be 
> B Grade.? And so, somewhat to my relief and certainly to the disgust 
> of a number of people, who felt they should have had the same 
> opportunity as the rest did, simmer down. I stayed on B Grade until I 
> left. ??Well, as you can imagine, I was pretty peeved about that, not 
> just peeved, I was downright sick about the whole thing.? I don?t know 
> who told Bimbi, it might have been Henry ? but, like me, she just 
> wasn?t rostered on cameras again.? Anyway, that was my end of women 
> operating cameras.? Henry decided that because I had been so 
> disappointed about coming off cameras - he thought well, okay she can 
> do some vision mixing and I went virtually from the floor on cameras 
> to vision mixing most of the time. /
>
> //
>
> /When I got round to Vision Mixing we weren?t able to cut, we were 
> only able to fade up and fade out.? A mix was achieved by bringing the 
> fader up onto the first stop, waiting, and then turning it full up 
> whenever we wanted it.? Because of the delay on the picture coming up, 
> we couldn?t just bring one in and take one out as quickly as that 
> without a bit of wind-up to begin with!? They were beautiful knobs, 
> you know, you grasped them, and they filled your hand ? you knew you?d 
> got hold of them.? Underneath each fader was a little pushbutton which 
> queued up the next picture that RACKS was supposed to put on the 
> preview channel for us in the Gallery.? In those days there were only 
> two screens in the studio galleries - one was the transmitted picture 
> and the one that RACKS put up on preview whichever that happened to 
> be.? When you had a quick sequence, you had to yell down to RACKS to 
> be able to bring the preview channel up quickly for you, otherwise, 
> you?d be fading up channels without actually having seen them first! ///
>
> //
>
> /For gardening programmes when we used to run a cable from Studio A, 
> out over the balcony, down the front of the building and through a 
> channel underneath the road to the garden on the other side of the 
> road where Fred Streeter would do his programme.? We were always 
> wondering if there was something he was going to hold that would have 
> to be bought back in the studio.? This was always left until the last 
> minute, someone would start taking it back, only to find it was needed 
> back with Fred, and they had to bring it back quickly.? I didn?t do 
> the camera work on the gardening programmes, but I did a lot of cable 
> hauling.? On those days they used to stop the buses using anywhere in 
> the park.? We had to have our badges to get through Alexandra Park and 
> everybody else was kept out except for the buses - but the buses 
> weren?t allowed to stop on their way through. /
>
> //
>
> /I remember we were bored a lot of the time, but somehow or other the 
> whole thing seemed to be absolutely joyous.? We were all enthusiastic, 
> we were all keen on doing the thing we were doing ? we didn?t care 
> what we did particularly, as long as we were involved, and involved we 
> certainly got ourselves!/
>
> //
>
> /The ?Dive? used to be absolutely beautiful in Spring when all the 
> cherry blossom trees were in bloom.? With hindsight it was really and 
> truly rather a dive!? It?s just that it was there, it was convenient 
> and you could go over there just before the evening transmission and, 
> ahh well . . . . it was a place to relax! ///
>
> I hope the above has been of interest.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Simon
>
> Simon Vaughan
>
> Archivist
>
> for and on behalf of
>
> Alexandra Palace Television Society
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Tel:?????? +44 (0) 1332 729358
>
> Mob:?? ? +44 (0) 7791 780882
>
> E-mail: apts at apts.org.uk 
> <applewebdata://9EC021DE-689D-4FEE-BB87-57500B1D581B/apts at apts.org.uk>
>
> Web: www.apts.org.uk 
> <applewebdata://9EC021DE-689D-4FEE-BB87-57500B1D581B/www.apts.org.uk>
>
> www.youtube.com/aptsarchive 
> <applewebdata://9EC021DE-689D-4FEE-BB87-57500B1D581B/www.youtube.com/aptsarchive>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> The Alexandra Palace Television Society is a not-for-profit 
> organisation, dedicated to preserving for present and future 
> generations, the oral and written history of the pioneers who 
> inaugurated the world's first regular public high-definition 
> television service from Alexandra Palace, north London, in 1936.
>
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they 
> are addressed.? If you have received this e-mail in error please 
> notify the system manager: postmaster at apts.org.uk 
> <applewebdata://9EC021DE-689D-4FEE-BB87-57500B1D581B/postmaster at apts.org.uk>
>
> *From: *Alec Bray <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 10:00
> *To: *Simon Vaughan <simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *APTS Archivist <apts at apts.org.uk>, Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another 
> female camerawoman?
>
> Hi Simon,
>
> Thank you very much for the photos of the Emitron Cameras! Thanks, 
> too, for the explanation of the horizontal "bar". As I mentioned, I 
> had not seen any photos of the original Emitrons with lens hoods - 
> that front-on view is an interesting photo in its own right.? And I 
> certainly did not release how many different "design iterations" there 
> were for those early Emitrons? and I can see why you thought that she 
> might be operating the camera!!
>
> I have had another go at photo-manipulation.? The vertical cable seems 
> to come from the bottom of the camera (viewfinder) and not from the 
> lady's hand.
>
> The lady is wearing a bangle or a bangle which incorporates a 
> wristwatch - it is clearer in some manipulations as to how the light 
> is reflected.
>
> Do we see the face of the watch in the photo where the lady is barely 
> seen?
>
> Anyway, it seems that the lady in question is doing "something" with 
> something near to or attached to the camera: it seems to be a smallish 
> knob.or cylindrical object, perhaps mounted on a rectangular plinth 
> sticking out from the side of the camera - tricky to see in the shadows.
>
> I hope that this is of interest!? I have reached the limit of what I 
> can do to separate out the grey scale at this area.
>
> A very intriguing picture, Simon - and with your photos of original 
> Emitrons in various configurations you may be able to say what the 
> lady is doing!
>
> -- 
> =======
> Alec Bray
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  <mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
> Mob:? 07789 561 346
> Tel:? 0118 981 7502
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email 
> <http://www.netintelligence.com/email>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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From sue.malden at btinternet.com  Fri Jul 23 16:07:40 2021
From: sue.malden at btinternet.com (SUSAN MALDEN)
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 22:07:40 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawomanM
In-Reply-To: <c59c23d4-fd33-b8aa-53b0-ef8bfb14a58a@gmail.com>
References: <EFC165DA-2F92-4A74-B86F-12916532CD9B@apts.org.uk>
	<c59c23d4-fd33-b8aa-53b0-ef8bfb14a58a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <240e1253.2ed70.17ad531fa5b.Webtop.106@btinternet.com>


This is an amazing string of emails with such important broadcasting 
historical information. As Albert has suggested - I would love the 
opportunity to bring all these threads together in an article for the 
BBCPA


Also I would like to explore the relevance of the BEHP interview with 
Bimbi Harris 
https://historyproject.org.uk/interview/barbara-bimbi-harris  to these 
recollections from Molly.

Does any one have contact details for Dr  Jeannine Baker who has 
recorded a long interview with Molly.It would be so important to hear 
this interview and make sure that it is saved for future

  Regards  Sue

------ Original Message ------
From: "Mike via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; mike.jdg.minchin at gmail.com
Sent: Friday, 23 Jul, 21 At 21:51
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another 
female camerawoman

I have been intrigued by this thread.  When I joined Tech.Ops in 
1960 the understanding was that the group of Lady Vision mixers 
"of a certain age" had been recruited in around 1946 as Camera 
operators while the men were still in the army.  Molly's 
reminiscences sort of support this story (though she was with the 
BBC earlier than 1946).  What I now find interesting was her 
mention of a colleague called Rachel.  Could that be the legendary 
Rachel Blaney, famed for the double clunk as she kept the next 
camera on the Preview Monitor?  It ties in with the way that Molly 
had to "mix".
Mike Minchin

On 23/07/2021 12:40, Alexandra Palace       Television Society via Tech1 
wrote:



My             apologies for not replying sooner to this thread, but I 
have             been waiting for an email from Australia where I have 
tracked down the lady featured in the photograph I shared a 
couple of weeks ago.

The lady             in question is Molly Brownless, (nee Heritage, then 
Frood),             and she was operating the camera in the original 
photograph!  She was at AP before from April 1946 and was 
operating an Emitron on the re-opening day!  I?ve been 
corresponding with Eileen, Molly?s daughter, who was with 
her the day she received my email ? Molly remembers working 
on the ballet and has a great recall of her days working at 
AP.  Molly is now 101, loving life and is constantly busy. 
After emigrating to Australia in 1951 she was a pioneer with 
Australian television when it was established and went on to 
have an important career within the industry.

Dr             Jeannine Baker (who I give total credit for identifying 
Molly) has recorded a long interview with her, over three 
consecutive days.  Jeannine has recently given a talk to an 
Australian conference on Molly career and it will be 
featured on a new website for the National Film and Sound 
Archive of Australia.  She is also working on a book about 
women and technology in television covering the UK and 
Australia.

So, it             would appear the first female camera operator was 
Molly             Brownless ? she was at AP on re-opening day in June 
1946 and             was on her camera during the afternoon 
transmission.

I have             attached some photographs of Molly when at AP in 
1946, as             well of some celebrating her 101st birthday.

Here are             Molly?s memories of being at Alexandra Palace:

It was the beginning of April               when we went to Alexandra 
Palace.  From them on we spent               all our time trying to pick 
up whatever we could from               people who were around, who were 
far too frantic to be               doing much about our training.  And 
the girls were looked               at somewhat aghast by those who were 
supposed to be giving               what information they could.  I 
suppose we more or less               gravitated towards the things that 
seemed to interest us               mostly.  Audrey and Joan were happy 
enough on GRAMS,               Isobel hung around Studio B watching 
whatever was going on               in, as well us on the upstairs desk 
to see what she could               pick up there.  Rachel was, as far 
as I remember, from the               beginning in Studio A.

Before we actually reopened               Alexandra Palace, in June 
1946, there were seven girls on               each shift.  First of all, 
when we started off, everyone               was on days, and I didn?t 
really get to know the people               then.  Everyone was working, 
or not working (as the case               may be), hanging around the 
place trying to pick up what               information they could.  I 
knew them by name, and you               obviously got to know them 
properly later on when the               shifts were changed around and 
so forth, but all the time               I was there, there were just 
two shifts and we worked               alternate days and even when one 
arranged a shift-swap,               one didn?t see the person one 
swapped with because, well,               they weren?t there when you 
were there - even though you               could do that arranging.

The thing I seem to remember that               made our life rather 
tedious at times was operating the               switchboard.  It was up 
a little wooden ladder, going out               of Maintenance at the 
back of A RACKS.  I think they put               us up there to get us 
out from under their feet.  This               little switchboard had 
very little capability - just two               lines and Studio A, 
Studio B, RACKS, and I?ve forgotten               who else was on that 
switchboard, but only a few.  If more               than two people 
wanted to be connected at a time, it was               not possible. 
Anyway, we all had to cover it and I seemed               to be on it 
whenever I wasn?t on the camera in the early               days.   We 
also covered CCR at times and writing up the               Log Book with 
timings.  I think I only did GRAMS about two               or three 
times in all the years I was there.  I wasn?t               very good at 
it; I somehow didn?t have the feel for it               that some of the 
girls who came from recording did.  I?d               been used to 
dealing with big pieces of equipment at               Droitwich. 
Somehow, I don?t know, those small pieces of               equipment 
didn?t come easily to me.  I was fascinated by               the cameras 
right from the beginning.

I remember a chap called George               Rose who had been a 
pre-war vision mixer - when it was all               blokes.  He was the 
only one who told any of us anything               about vision mixing, 
as such.  Otherwise, we just picked               it up by watching 
whatever went on.  When more of the               girls came (and I 
can?t remember how long it was after the               service 
reopened), but it was probably getting on for a               year 
afterwards - we had somebody allocated to telecine.                You 
had to clean all those mirrors on the Mechau               projectors - 
thirty-two, if I remember rightly ? (but I am               not 
absolutely certain about that).  Occasionally, I               remember 
having to operate the projector in the film unit 
downstairs.  This was where the new telecine was installed 
when it came, which Gordon Waters took over ? that was not 
long before I left.  I occasionally did Sound Floor, you 
know, shoving in a microphone either above or below on a 
stand - above or below the camera ? but, mostly, I did 
camerawork to begin with and, of course, that was my 
delight.

I started on               cameras right from the first day ? the first 
day we put               out a programme which was the day before the 
Victory               Parade, which was a Friday, and it was the 
afternoon               session in Studio B.  I was on Camera 3 (I was 
mostly on               three whichever studio I was in) and so I 
didn?t, at that               time, know very much about Ted Langley who 
was senior               cameraman in Studio A, as Frank Cresswell was 
the senior               camera man in Studio B.  The ?iron man? was not 
really               moveable except when your camera was not ?on air?. 
You               could move the camera around obviously, but it was 
fairly               heavy to move whilst you were actually on air.  You 
could               push it with one foot as long as you kept your 
balance               with the other one.  But the distance was only a 
matter of               how far your legs would stretch and still keep 
your               balance and keep control.

I was on that ?iron man? the day               the service reopened.  I 
didn?t realise (in my na?ve way),               that I was actually 
going to do the transmission.  I?d               being doing the 
rehearsal, but I hadn?t sort of twigged               that having done 
the rehearsal, I would necessarily do the               transmission.  I 
thought that all these chaps that were               dashing around 
being very, very, important were going to               take over the 
camera and do it on the transmission and I               was absolutely 
vapped when I found that I was doing it!                The next day it 
was the Outside Broadcast of the Victory               Parade, while I 
was in the studio working on ?The               Squadronnaires? 
(featuring Harry Lewis, Dame Vera Lynn?s               husband).  That 
was a great time.

Now,               lining up cameras ? that was a daily chore.  Each 
camera               operator took it in turns to line-up their camera, 
starting with camera 1.  I was usually on either camera 3 
or 4, so usually it was after morning tea before I got to 
line up my camera.  We pointed the camera at a chart, and 
it went on from there.  RACKS guided you as to what they 
saw on their screen, and you marked on your glass screen 
exactly where the picture limits were for that particular 
camera.  You went slightly beyond this limit, so you could 
see the boom microphone coming in from the top or 
something coming in from the sides before it got in shot. 
We also had to watch out for getting a beam from one of 
the studio lights light in picture - it used to kill the 
camera.  There used to be a burning smell and the camera 
had to have a new tube.

We used to see a               direct picture in the viewfinder.  The 
camera had two               lenses, a lens which went straight to the 
camera and a               lens to the side of it which gave the camera 
operator the               same picture but, being a lens, it inverted 
it ? it was               upside down and back to front.  You quickly 
learned to               look at the picture and quickly balance it and 
go with the               movement in the opposite direction to where 
you would               expect to be going looking at the picture! 
There was               something else we had to worry about too and 
that was the               power lags on the two lenses.  The one that 
went through               to the camera was dead straight on, but the 
one on the               side, of course, to keep on the same picture, 
had to come               at a slight angle from the other one so your 
picture               composition might not be exactly the same as the 
main               camera.  So, you had to do a little bit of adjustment 
on               that one too.

At the               end of transmission, we had to wheel our cameras to 
the               side of the studio and coil up the cables so that the 
floor of the studio was left clear, ready to build the 
sets for the next day?s programme.  It was a matter of 
honour that you didn?t leave the place looking a mess. 
Ted Langley and Ben Blooman were very keen on this, so we 
had to watch ourselves and make sure everything was just 
so.

Now it               was after Bimbi Harris came and I?d being doing 
camerawork               for quite some time, and she wanted to do that 
- I?m not               surprised, I thoroughly enjoyed it and didn?t 
see why she               wouldn?t want too!  One day a reporter came 
from a               television magazine and found out about there being 
a               ?cameraman? who was female or maybe he found out about 
two, I?m not quite sure.  Henry Whiting told me that they 
wanted to do a publicity picture of me on a camera and I 
was rather tickled at the idea, as you can imagine.  I was 
actually in Studio A the day the reporter arrived ? 
working on a show.  At the end of the programme, I tried 
to find this photographer only to discover that Bimbi had 
already been photographed on Camera 2, which was the               Crab! 
I can understand why he would have taken her               because she 
would certainly have taken a better picture               than I would 
have done.  But, because she was photographed               on a 
tracking camera and because she wasn?t the first               female 
operator, the blokes were a bit peeved.  Bimbi               hadn?t been 
at the Palace very long and I had been there               for a few 
years at that point, they didn?t think she               should have 
appeared on the tracking camera which, of               course, is not 
one she would have operated, and they               thought it should 
have been me.

Now the               next thing that happened which was why I and Bimbi 
came               off cameras  was due to the fact that the camera men 
wanted to get themselves a higher grade and they were 
trying to upgrade their pay in relation to the other 
operators around ? it was a very specialised job!  All the 
cameramen, as far as I know, including me, belonged to the 
Association of Senior Technicians, and they were expecting 
this Association to back their claim.  The Association 
didn?t like me being one of the camera crew because if I 
could do it then, obviously, it wasn?t such a very skilled 
job after all.  Henry, to avoid any splitting up of the 
blokes in the studio I presume, told me that I wouldn?t be 
able to do camerawork anymore.

I think everybody was a TA1 when               went to Alexandra Palace, 
but I can?t remember it being               stated as a requisite. 
However, when we had been there               some time a lot of chaps 
came out of the Forces, they had               not necessarily been in 
the BBC before the War.  The BBC               insisted those who were 
TA1?s would be B Grade.  Up until               that time, the 
difference between operators and engineers               had been an 
exam to get the status of B Grade, but they               shifted it up 
a peg to C, so the exam was between D Grade               and C, and 
that was the start of what became qualified               ?Engineers? as 
opposed to us ?Operators?.  We were all               still in the 
Engineering Division, but on different               grades.  It meant 
an increase in salary, but not, if I               remember correctly 
very much, and certainly not backdated               so it wasn?t quite 
so startling.

I remember that somebody on the               other shift was actually 
working quite hard to take the               exam.  Bertie Baker, stated 
quite categorically that no               female, even if they passed 
the exam, would be given a C               Grade job, so we could pass 
the exam if we wanted too but               we would still be B Grade. 
And so, somewhat to my relief               and certainly to the disgust 
of a number of people, who               felt they should have had the 
same opportunity as the rest               did, simmer down. I stayed on 
B Grade until I left.                 Well, as you can imagine, I was 
pretty peeved about               that, not just peeved, I was downright 
sick about the               whole thing.  I don?t know who told Bimbi, 
it might have               been Henry ? but, like me, she just wasn?t 
rostered on               cameras again.  Anyway, that was my end of 
women operating               cameras.  Henry decided that because I had 
been so               disappointed about coming off cameras - he thought 
well,               okay she can do some vision mixing and I went 
virtually               from the floor on cameras to vision mixing most 
of the               time.

When I got round to Vision Mixing               we weren?t able to cut, 
we were only able to fade up and               fade out.  A mix was 
achieved by bringing the fader up               onto the first stop, 
waiting, and then turning it full up               whenever we wanted 
it.  Because of the delay on the               picture coming up, we 
couldn?t just bring one in and take               one out as quickly as 
that without a bit of wind-up to               begin with!  They were 
beautiful knobs, you know, you               grasped them, and they 
filled your hand ? you knew you?d               got hold of them. 
Underneath each fader was a little               pushbutton which queued 
up the next picture that RACKS was               supposed to put on the 
preview channel for us in the               Gallery.  In those days 
there were only two screens in the               studio galleries - one 
was the transmitted picture and the               one that RACKS put up 
on preview whichever that happened               to be.  When you had a 
quick sequence, you had to yell               down to RACKS to be able 
to bring the preview channel up               quickly for you, 
otherwise, you?d be fading up channels               without actually 
having seen them first!

For gardening programmes when we used to             run a cable from 
Studio A, out over the balcony, down the             front of the 
building and through a channel underneath the             road to the 
garden on the other side of the road where Fred             Streeter 
would do his programme.  We were always wondering             if there 
was something he was going to hold that would have             to be 
bought back in the studio.  This was always left until             the 
last minute, someone would start taking it back, only to 
find it was needed back with Fred, and they had to bring it 
back quickly.  I didn?t do the camera work on the gardening 
programmes, but I did a lot of cable hauling.  On those days 
they used to stop the buses using anywhere in the park.  We 
had to have our badges to get through Alexandra Park and 
everybody else was kept out except for the buses - but the 
buses weren?t allowed to stop on their way through.

I               remember we were bored a lot of the time, but somehow or 
other the whole thing seemed to be absolutely joyous.  We 
were all enthusiastic, we were all keen on doing the thing 
we were doing ? we didn?t care what we did particularly, 
as long as we were involved, and involved we certainly got 
ourselves!

The ?Dive? used to be absolutely             beautiful in Spring when 
all the cherry blossom trees were             in bloom.  With hindsight 
it was really and truly rather a             dive!  It?s just that it 
was there, it was convenient and             you could go over there 
just before the evening transmission             and, ahh well . . . . 
it was a place to relax!

I hope             the above has been of interest.

Many             thanks

Simon



Simon Vaughan
Archivist
for and on behalf of
Alexandra Palace Television Society
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tel:       +44 (0) 1332 729358
Mob:     +44 (0) 7791 780882
E-mail:  apts at apts.org.uk
Web:     www.apts.org.uk
                www.youtube.com/aptsarchive
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Alexandra Palace               Television Society is a 
not-for-profit organisation,               dedicated to preserving for 
present and future               generations, the oral and written 
history of the pioneers               who inaugurated the world's first 
regular public               high-definition television service from 
Alexandra Palace,               north London, in 1936.

This e-mail and any               files transmitted with it are 
confidential and intended               solely for the use of the 
individual or entity to whom               they are addressed.  If you 
have received this e-mail in               error please notify the 
system manager: postmaster at apts.org.uk





From: Alec Bray               <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com> 
<mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
                Date: Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 10:00
                To: Simon Vaughan 
<simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com> <mailto:simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com>
                Cc: APTS Archivist <apts at apts.org.uk> 
<mailto:apts at apts.org.uk> , Tech               Ops 
<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
                Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a 
photograph - poss another female camerawoman?




Hi Simon,
Thank you very much for the photos of the Emitron Cameras! 
Thanks, too, for the explanation of the horizontal "bar". As I 
mentioned, I had not seen any photos of the original Emitrons 
with lens hoods - that front-on view is an interesting photo 
in its own right.  And I certainly did not release how many 
different "design iterations" there were for those early 
Emitrons  and I can see why you thought that she might be 
operating the camera!!
I have had another go at photo-manipulation.  The vertical 
cable seems to come from the bottom of the camera (viewfinder) 
and not from the lady's hand.

The lady is wearing a bangle or a bangle which incorporates a 
wristwatch - it is clearer in some manipulations as to how the 
light is reflected.

Do we see the face of the watch in the photo where the lady           is 
barely seen?


Anyway, it seems that the lady in question is doing 
"something" with something near to or attached to the camera: 
it seems to be a smallish knob.or cylindrical object, perhaps 
mounted on a rectangular plinth sticking out from the side of 
the camera - tricky to see in the shadows.



I hope that this is of interest!  I have reached the limit of 
what I can do to separate out the grey scale at this area.
A very intriguing picture, Simon - and with your photos of 
original Emitrons in various configurations you may be able to 
say what the lady is doing!         --          ======= 
Alec Bray                   alec.bray.2 at gmail.com 
<mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>          Mob:  07789 561 346         Tel: 
0118 981 7502



This email has been scanned by           Netintelligence
            http://www.netintelligence.com/email 
<http://www.netintelligence.com/email>



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Tech1 mailing list
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From simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com  Sat Jul 24 05:17:58 2021
From: simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com (Simon Vaughan)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 11:17:58 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawomanM
In-Reply-To: <240e1253.2ed70.17ad531fa5b.Webtop.106@btinternet.com>
References: <240e1253.2ed70.17ad531fa5b.Webtop.106@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <85E20426-7510-46F0-B072-A4087780BEC2@gmail.com>

Hi Sue,
I?ll send you a direct email with Jeannine Baker?s contact details once I?m at home later. 
Best wishes
Si

Simon Vaughan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tel:     +44 (0)1332 729358
Mob:   +44 (0)7791 780882
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sent from my iPad

> On 23 Jul 2021, at 22:08, SUSAN MALDEN via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> This is an amazing string of emails with such important broadcasting historical information. As Albert has suggested - I would love the opportunity to bring all these threads together in an article for the BBCPA
> 
> Also I would like to explore the relevance of the BEHP interview with Bimbi Harris https://historyproject.org.uk/interview/barbara-bimbi-harris to these recollections from Molly.
> 
> Does any one have contact details for Dr  Jeannine Baker who has recorded a long interview with Molly.It would be so important to hear this interview and make sure that it is saved for future
> 
>  Regards  Sue
> 
> 
> 
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Mike via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; mike.jdg.minchin at gmail.com
> Sent: Friday, 23 Jul, 21 At 21:51
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female camerawoman
> 
>      
> I have been intrigued by this thread.  When I joined Tech.Ops in       1960 the understanding was that the group of Lady Vision mixers       "of a certain age" had been recruited in around 1946 as Camera       operators while the men were still in the army.  Molly's       reminiscences sort of support this story (though she was with the       BBC earlier than 1946).  What I now find interesting was her       mention of a colleague called Rachel.  Could that be the legendary       Rachel Blaney, famed for the double clunk as she kept the next       camera on the Preview Monitor?  It ties in with the way that Molly       had to "mix".
>      
> Mike Minchin
>      
>      
> On 23/07/2021 12:40, Alexandra Palace       Television Society via Tech1 wrote:
>      
>      
>                                    
>          
> My             apologies for not replying sooner to this thread, but I have             been waiting for an email from Australia where I have             tracked down the lady featured in the photograph I shared a             couple of weeks ago.
>          
>  
>          
> The lady             in question is Molly Brownless, (nee Heritage, then Frood),             and she was operating the camera in the original             photograph!  She was at AP before from April 1946 and was             operating an Emitron on the re-opening day!  I?ve been             corresponding with Eileen, Molly?s daughter, who was with             her the day she received my email ? Molly remembers working             on the ballet and has a great recall of her days working at             AP.  Molly is now 101, loving life and is constantly busy.               After emigrating to Australia in 1951 she was a pioneer with             Australian television when it was established and went on to             have an important career within the industry.
>          
>  
>          
> Dr             Jeannine Baker (who I give total credit for identifying             Molly) has recorded a long interview with her, over three             consecutive days.  Jeannine has recently given a talk to an             Australian conference on Molly career and it will be             featured on a new website for the National Film and Sound             Archive of Australia.  She is also working on a book about             women and technology in television covering the UK and             Australia.
>          
>  
>          
> So, it             would appear the first female camera operator was Molly             Brownless ? she was at AP on re-opening day in June 1946 and             was on her camera during the afternoon transmission.
>          
>  
>          
> I have             attached some photographs of Molly when at AP in 1946, as             well of some celebrating her 101st birthday.
>          
>  
>          
> Here are             Molly?s memories of being at Alexandra Palace:
>          
>  
>          
> It was the beginning of April               when we went to Alexandra Palace.  From them on we spent               all our time trying to pick up whatever we could from               people who were around, who were far too frantic to be               doing much about our training.  And the girls were looked               at somewhat aghast by those who were supposed to be giving               what information they could.  I suppose we more or less               gravitated towards the things that seemed to interest us               mostly.  Audrey and Joan were happy enough on GRAMS,               Isobel hung around Studio B watching whatever was going on               in, as well us on the upstairs desk to see what she could               pick up there.  Rachel was, as far as I remember, from the               beginning in Studio A.   
>          
>  
>          
> Before we actually reopened               Alexandra Palace, in June 1946, there were seven girls on               each shift.  First of all, when we started off, everyone               was on days, and I didn?t really get to know the people               then.  Everyone was working, or not working (as the case               may be), hanging around the place trying to pick up what               information they could.  I knew them by name, and you               obviously got to know them properly later on when the               shifts were changed around and so forth, but all the time               I was there, there were just two shifts and we worked               alternate days and even when one arranged a shift-swap,               one didn?t see the person one swapped with because, well,               they weren?t there when you were there - even though you               could do that arranging.  
>          
>  
>          
> The thing I seem to remember that               made our life rather tedious at times was operating the               switchboard.  It was up a little wooden ladder, going out               of Maintenance at the back of A RACKS.  I think they put               us up there to get us out from under their feet.  This               little switchboard had very little capability - just two               lines and Studio A, Studio B, RACKS, and I?ve forgotten               who else was on that switchboard, but only a few.  If more               than two people wanted to be connected at a time, it was               not possible.  Anyway, we all had to cover it and I seemed               to be on it whenever I wasn?t on the camera in the early               days.   We also covered CCR at times and writing up the               Log Book with timings.  I think I only did GRAMS about two               or three times in all the years I was there.  I wasn?t               very good at it; I somehow didn?t have the feel for it               that some of the girls who came from recording did.  I?d               been used to dealing with big pieces of equipment at               Droitwich.  Somehow, I don?t know, those small pieces of               equipment didn?t come easily to me.  I was fascinated by               the cameras right from the beginning.
>          
>  
>          
> I remember a chap called George               Rose who had been a pre-war vision mixer - when it was all               blokes.  He was the only one who told any of us anything               about vision mixing, as such.  Otherwise, we just picked               it up by watching whatever went on.  When more of the               girls came (and I can?t remember how long it was after the               service reopened), but it was probably getting on for a               year afterwards - we had somebody allocated to telecine.                You had to clean all those mirrors on the Mechau               projectors - thirty-two, if I remember rightly ? (but I am               not absolutely certain about that).  Occasionally, I               remember having to operate the projector in the film unit               downstairs.  This was where the new telecine was installed               when it came, which Gordon Waters took over ? that was not               long before I left.  I occasionally did Sound Floor, you               know, shoving in a microphone either above or below on a               stand - above or below the camera ? but, mostly, I did               camerawork to begin with and, of course, that was my               delight. 
>          
>  
>          
> I started on               cameras right from the first day ? the first day we put               out a programme which was the day before the Victory               Parade, which was a Friday, and it was the afternoon               session in Studio B.  I was on Camera 3 (I was mostly on               three whichever studio I was in) and so I didn?t, at that               time, know very much about Ted Langley who was senior               cameraman in Studio A, as Frank Cresswell was the senior               camera man in Studio B.  The ?iron man? was not really               moveable except when your camera was not ?on air?.  You               could move the camera around obviously, but it was fairly               heavy to move whilst you were actually on air.  You could               push it with one foot as long as you kept your balance               with the other one.  But the distance was only a matter of               how far your legs would stretch and still keep your               balance and keep control.  
>          
>  
>          
> I was on that ?iron man? the day               the service reopened.  I didn?t realise (in my na?ve way),               that I was actually going to do the transmission.  I?d               being doing the rehearsal, but I hadn?t sort of twigged               that having done the rehearsal, I would necessarily do the               transmission.  I thought that all these chaps that were               dashing around being very, very, important were going to               take over the camera and do it on the transmission and I               was absolutely vapped when I found that I was doing it!                The next day it was the Outside Broadcast of the Victory               Parade, while I was in the studio working on ?The               Squadronnaires? (featuring Harry Lewis, Dame Vera Lynn?s               husband).  That was a great time. 
>          
>  
>          
> Now,               lining up cameras ? that was a daily chore.  Each camera               operator took it in turns to line-up their camera,               starting with camera 1.  I was usually on either camera 3               or 4, so usually it was after morning tea before I got to               line up my camera.  We pointed the camera at a chart, and               it went on from there.  RACKS guided you as to what they               saw on their screen, and you marked on your glass screen               exactly where the picture limits were for that particular               camera.  You went slightly beyond this limit, so you could               see the boom microphone coming in from the top or               something coming in from the sides before it got in shot.                We also had to watch out for getting a beam from one of               the studio lights light in picture - it used to kill the               camera.  There used to be a burning smell and the camera               had to have a new tube. 
>          
>  
>          
> We used to see a               direct picture in the viewfinder.  The camera had two               lenses, a lens which went straight to the camera and a               lens to the side of it which gave the camera operator the               same picture but, being a lens, it inverted it ? it was               upside down and back to front.  You quickly learned to               look at the picture and quickly balance it and go with the               movement in the opposite direction to where you would               expect to be going looking at the picture!  There was               something else we had to worry about too and that was the               power lags on the two lenses.  The one that went through               to the camera was dead straight on, but the one on the               side, of course, to keep on the same picture, had to come               at a slight angle from the other one so your picture               composition might not be exactly the same as the main               camera.  So, you had to do a little bit of adjustment on               that one too. 
>          
>  
>          
> At the               end of transmission, we had to wheel our cameras to the               side of the studio and coil up the cables so that the               floor of the studio was left clear, ready to build the               sets for the next day?s programme.  It was a matter of               honour that you didn?t leave the place looking a mess.                Ted Langley and Ben Blooman were very keen on this, so we               had to watch ourselves and make sure everything was just               so.
>          
>  
>          
> Now it               was after Bimbi Harris came and I?d being doing camerawork               for quite some time, and she wanted to do that - I?m not               surprised, I thoroughly enjoyed it and didn?t see why she               wouldn?t want too!  One day a reporter came from a               television magazine and found out about there being a               ?cameraman? who was female or maybe he found out about               two, I?m not quite sure.  Henry Whiting told me that they               wanted to do a publicity picture of me on a camera and I               was rather tickled at the idea, as you can imagine.  I was               actually in Studio A the day the reporter arrived ?               working on a show.  At the end of the programme, I tried               to find this photographer only to discover that Bimbi had               already been photographed on Camera 2, which was the               Crab!  I can understand why he would have taken her               because she would certainly have taken a better picture               than I would have done.  But, because she was photographed               on a tracking camera and because she wasn?t the first               female operator, the blokes were a bit peeved.  Bimbi               hadn?t been at the Palace very long and I had been there               for a few years at that point, they didn?t think she               should have appeared on the tracking camera which, of               course, is not one she would have operated, and they               thought it should have been me.
>          
>  
>          
> Now the               next thing that happened which was why I and Bimbi came               off cameras  was due to the fact that the camera men               wanted to get themselves a higher grade and they were               trying to upgrade their pay in relation to the other               operators around ? it was a very specialised job!  All the               cameramen, as far as I know, including me, belonged to the               Association of Senior Technicians, and they were expecting               this Association to back their claim.  The Association               didn?t like me being one of the camera crew because if I               could do it then, obviously, it wasn?t such a very skilled               job after all.  Henry, to avoid any splitting up of the               blokes in the studio I presume, told me that I wouldn?t be               able to do camerawork anymore.  
>          
>  
>          
> I think everybody was a TA1 when               went to Alexandra Palace, but I can?t remember it being               stated as a requisite.  However, when we had been there               some time a lot of chaps came out of the Forces, they had               not necessarily been in the BBC before the War.  The BBC               insisted those who were TA1?s would be B Grade.  Up until               that time, the difference between operators and engineers               had been an exam to get the status of B Grade, but they               shifted it up a peg to C, so the exam was between D Grade               and C, and that was the start of what became qualified               ?Engineers? as opposed to us ?Operators?.  We were all               still in the Engineering Division, but on different               grades.  It meant an increase in salary, but not, if I               remember correctly very much, and certainly not backdated               so it wasn?t quite so startling.  
>          
>  
>          
> I remember that somebody on the               other shift was actually working quite hard to take the               exam.  Bertie Baker, stated quite categorically that no               female, even if they passed the exam, would be given a C               Grade job, so we could pass the exam if we wanted too but               we would still be B Grade.  And so, somewhat to my relief               and certainly to the disgust of a number of people, who               felt they should have had the same opportunity as the rest               did, simmer down. I stayed on B Grade until I left.                 Well, as you can imagine, I was pretty peeved about               that, not just peeved, I was downright sick about the               whole thing.  I don?t know who told Bimbi, it might have               been Henry ? but, like me, she just wasn?t rostered on               cameras again.  Anyway, that was my end of women operating               cameras.  Henry decided that because I had been so               disappointed about coming off cameras - he thought well,               okay she can do some vision mixing and I went virtually               from the floor on cameras to vision mixing most of the               time.  
>          
>  
>          
> When I got round to Vision Mixing               we weren?t able to cut, we were only able to fade up and               fade out.  A mix was achieved by bringing the fader up               onto the first stop, waiting, and then turning it full up               whenever we wanted it.  Because of the delay on the               picture coming up, we couldn?t just bring one in and take               one out as quickly as that without a bit of wind-up to               begin with!  They were beautiful knobs, you know, you               grasped them, and they filled your hand ? you knew you?d               got hold of them.  Underneath each fader was a little               pushbutton which queued up the next picture that RACKS was               supposed to put on the preview channel for us in the               Gallery.  In those days there were only two screens in the               studio galleries - one was the transmitted picture and the               one that RACKS put up on preview whichever that happened               to be.  When you had a quick sequence, you had to yell               down to RACKS to be able to bring the preview channel up               quickly for you, otherwise, you?d be fading up channels               without actually having seen them first! 
>          
>  
>          
> For gardening programmes when we used to             run a cable from Studio A, out over the balcony, down the             front of the building and through a channel underneath the             road to the garden on the other side of the road where Fred             Streeter would do his programme.  We were always wondering             if there was something he was going to hold that would have             to be bought back in the studio.  This was always left until             the last minute, someone would start taking it back, only to             find it was needed back with Fred, and they had to bring it             back quickly.  I didn?t do the camera work on the gardening             programmes, but I did a lot of cable hauling.  On those days             they used to stop the buses using anywhere in the park.  We             had to have our badges to get through Alexandra Park and             everybody else was kept out except for the buses - but the             buses weren?t allowed to stop on their way through.   
>          
>  
>          
> I               remember we were bored a lot of the time, but somehow or               other the whole thing seemed to be absolutely joyous.  We               were all enthusiastic, we were all keen on doing the thing               we were doing ? we didn?t care what we did particularly,               as long as we were involved, and involved we certainly got               ourselves!
>          
>  
>          
> The ?Dive? used to be absolutely             beautiful in Spring when all the cherry blossom trees were             in bloom.  With hindsight it was really and truly rather a             dive!  It?s just that it was there, it was convenient and             you could go over there just before the evening transmission             and, ahh well . . . . it was a place to relax! 
>          
>  
>          
> I hope             the above has been of interest.
>          
>  
>          
> Many             thanks
>          
>  
>          
> Simon
>          
>            
>  
>            
>  
>            
> Simon Vaughan
>            
> Archivist
>            
> for and on behalf of
>            
> Alexandra Palace Television Society
>            
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>            
> Tel:       +44 (0) 1332 729358
>            
> Mob:     +44 (0) 7791 780882
>            
> E-mail:  apts at apts.org.uk
>            
> Web:     www.apts.org.uk
>            
>                www.youtube.com/aptsarchive
>            
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>            
> The Alexandra Palace               Television Society is a not-for-profit organisation,               dedicated to preserving for present and future               generations, the oral and written history of the pioneers               who inaugurated the world's first regular public               high-definition television service from Alexandra Palace,               north London, in 1936.
>            
>  
>            
> This e-mail and any               files transmitted with it are confidential and intended               solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom               they are addressed.  If you have received this e-mail in               error please notify the system manager: postmaster at apts.org.uk
>          
>          
>  
>          
>  
>          
>  
>          
>            
> From: Alec Bray               <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
>                Date: Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 10:00
>                To: Simon Vaughan               <simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com>
>                Cc: APTS Archivist <apts at apts.org.uk>, Tech               Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>                Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a               photograph - poss another female camerawoman?
>          
>          
>            
>  
>          
>          
> Hi Simon,
>          
> Thank you very much for the photos of the Emitron Cameras!            Thanks, too, for the explanation of the horizontal "bar". As I           mentioned, I had not seen any photos of the original Emitrons           with lens hoods - that front-on view is an interesting photo           in its own right.  And I certainly did not release how many           different "design iterations" there were for those early           Emitrons  and I can see why you thought that she might be           operating the camera!!
>          
> I have had another go at photo-manipulation.  The vertical           cable seems to come from the bottom of the camera (viewfinder)           and not from the lady's hand.
>          
> <image001.png>
>          
> The lady is wearing a bangle or a bangle which incorporates a           wristwatch - it is clearer in some manipulations as to how the           light is reflected.
>          
> <image002.png>
>        
> <image003.png>
>    
>          
> Do we see the face of the watch in the photo where the lady           is barely seen?
>          
> <image004.png>
>          
>  
>          
> Anyway, it seems that the lady in question is doing            "something" with something near to or attached to the camera:            it seems to be a smallish knob.or cylindrical object, perhaps           mounted on a rectangular plinth sticking out from the side of           the camera - tricky to see in the shadows.
>          
>  
>          
> <image005.png>
>          
>  
>          
> I hope that this is of interest!  I have reached the limit of           what I can do to separate out the grey scale at this area.
>          
> A very intriguing picture, Simon - and with your photos of           original Emitrons in various configurations you may be able to           say what the lady is doing!
>          
> -- 
>          
> =======
>          
>  
>          
> Alec Bray
>          
>  
>          
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>          
> Mob:  07789 561 346
>          
> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>          
>  
>          
>            
>          
> This email has been scanned by           Netintelligence
>            http://www.netintelligence.com/email
>          
>            
>        
>        
>             
>      
> -- 
> 
> Tech1 mailing list
> 
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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> ______________________________________________        
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> http://www.netintelligence.com/email
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From sue.malden at btinternet.com  Sat Jul 24 05:24:38 2021
From: sue.malden at btinternet.com (SUSAN MALDEN)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 11:24:38 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawomanM
In-Reply-To: <85E20426-7510-46F0-B072-A4087780BEC2@gmail.com>
References: <240e1253.2ed70.17ad531fa5b.Webtop.106@btinternet.com>
	<85E20426-7510-46F0-B072-A4087780BEC2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b8a00bf.2f7ee.17ad80ba241.Webtop.114@btinternet.com>


Many thanks Simon

Cheers Sue

------ Original Message ------
From: "Simon Vaughan via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
To: "SUSAN MALDEN" <sue.malden at btinternet.com>
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; mikedick at blueyonder.co.uk
Sent: Saturday, 24 Jul, 21 At 11:17
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another 
female camerawomanM
Hi Sue,
I?ll send you a direct email with Jeannine Baker?s contact details once 
I?m at home later.
Best wishes
Si

Simon Vaughan


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tel:     +44 (0)1332 729358
Mob:   +44 (0)7791 780882
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sent from my iPad

On 23 Jul 2021, at 22:08, SUSAN MALDEN via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
wrote:

?
This is an amazing string of emails with such important broadcasting 
historical information. As Albert has suggested - I would love the 
opportunity to bring all these threads together in an article for the 
BBCPA


Also I would like to explore the relevance of the BEHP interview with 
Bimbi Harris 
https://historyproject.org.uk/interview/barbara-bimbi-harris  to these 
recollections from Molly.

Does any one have contact details for Dr  Jeannine Baker who has 
recorded a long interview with Molly.It would be so important to hear 
this interview and make sure that it is saved for future

  Regards  Sue

------ Original Message ------
From: "Mike via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; mike.jdg.minchin at gmail.com
Sent: Friday, 23 Jul, 21 At 21:51
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another 
female camerawoman

I have been intrigued by this thread.  When I joined Tech.Ops in 
1960 the understanding was that the group of Lady Vision mixers 
"of a certain age" had been recruited in around 1946 as Camera 
operators while the men were still in the army.  Molly's 
reminiscences sort of support this story (though she was with the 
BBC earlier than 1946).  What I now find interesting was her 
mention of a colleague called Rachel.  Could that be the legendary 
Rachel Blaney, famed for the double clunk as she kept the next 
camera on the Preview Monitor?  It ties in with the way that Molly 
had to "mix".
Mike Minchin

On 23/07/2021 12:40, Alexandra Palace       Television Society via Tech1 
wrote:



My             apologies for not replying sooner to this thread, but I 
have             been waiting for an email from Australia where I have 
tracked down the lady featured in the photograph I shared a 
couple of weeks ago.

The lady             in question is Molly Brownless, (nee Heritage, then 
Frood),             and she was operating the camera in the original 
photograph!  She was at AP before from April 1946 and was 
operating an Emitron on the re-opening day!  I?ve been 
corresponding with Eileen, Molly?s daughter, who was with 
her the day she received my email ? Molly remembers working 
on the ballet and has a great recall of her days working at 
AP.  Molly is now 101, loving life and is constantly busy. 
After emigrating to Australia in 1951 she was a pioneer with 
Australian television when it was established and went on to 
have an important career within the industry.

Dr             Jeannine Baker (who I give total credit for identifying 
Molly) has recorded a long interview with her, over three 
consecutive days.  Jeannine has recently given a talk to an 
Australian conference on Molly career and it will be 
featured on a new website for the National Film and Sound 
Archive of Australia.  She is also working on a book about 
women and technology in television covering the UK and 
Australia.

So, it             would appear the first female camera operator was 
Molly             Brownless ? she was at AP on re-opening day in June 
1946 and             was on her camera during the afternoon 
transmission.

I have             attached some photographs of Molly when at AP in 
1946, as             well of some celebrating her 101st birthday.

Here are             Molly?s memories of being at Alexandra Palace:

It was the beginning of April               when we went to Alexandra 
Palace.  From them on we spent               all our time trying to pick 
up whatever we could from               people who were around, who were 
far too frantic to be               doing much about our training.  And 
the girls were looked               at somewhat aghast by those who were 
supposed to be giving               what information they could.  I 
suppose we more or less               gravitated towards the things that 
seemed to interest us               mostly.  Audrey and Joan were happy 
enough on GRAMS,               Isobel hung around Studio B watching 
whatever was going on               in, as well us on the upstairs desk 
to see what she could               pick up there.  Rachel was, as far 
as I remember, from the               beginning in Studio A.

Before we actually reopened               Alexandra Palace, in June 
1946, there were seven girls on               each shift.  First of all, 
when we started off, everyone               was on days, and I didn?t 
really get to know the people               then.  Everyone was working, 
or not working (as the case               may be), hanging around the 
place trying to pick up what               information they could.  I 
knew them by name, and you               obviously got to know them 
properly later on when the               shifts were changed around and 
so forth, but all the time               I was there, there were just 
two shifts and we worked               alternate days and even when one 
arranged a shift-swap,               one didn?t see the person one 
swapped with because, well,               they weren?t there when you 
were there - even though you               could do that arranging.

The thing I seem to remember that               made our life rather 
tedious at times was operating the               switchboard.  It was up 
a little wooden ladder, going out               of Maintenance at the 
back of A RACKS.  I think they put               us up there to get us 
out from under their feet.  This               little switchboard had 
very little capability - just two               lines and Studio A, 
Studio B, RACKS, and I?ve forgotten               who else was on that 
switchboard, but only a few.  If more               than two people 
wanted to be connected at a time, it was               not possible. 
Anyway, we all had to cover it and I seemed               to be on it 
whenever I wasn?t on the camera in the early               days.   We 
also covered CCR at times and writing up the               Log Book with 
timings.  I think I only did GRAMS about two               or three 
times in all the years I was there.  I wasn?t               very good at 
it; I somehow didn?t have the feel for it               that some of the 
girls who came from recording did.  I?d               been used to 
dealing with big pieces of equipment at               Droitwich. 
Somehow, I don?t know, those small pieces of               equipment 
didn?t come easily to me.  I was fascinated by               the cameras 
right from the beginning.

I remember a chap called George               Rose who had been a 
pre-war vision mixer - when it was all               blokes.  He was the 
only one who told any of us anything               about vision mixing, 
as such.  Otherwise, we just picked               it up by watching 
whatever went on.  When more of the               girls came (and I 
can?t remember how long it was after the               service 
reopened), but it was probably getting on for a               year 
afterwards - we had somebody allocated to telecine.                You 
had to clean all those mirrors on the Mechau               projectors - 
thirty-two, if I remember rightly ? (but I am               not 
absolutely certain about that).  Occasionally, I               remember 
having to operate the projector in the film unit 
downstairs.  This was where the new telecine was installed 
when it came, which Gordon Waters took over ? that was not 
long before I left.  I occasionally did Sound Floor, you 
know, shoving in a microphone either above or below on a 
stand - above or below the camera ? but, mostly, I did 
camerawork to begin with and, of course, that was my 
delight.

I started on               cameras right from the first day ? the first 
day we put               out a programme which was the day before the 
Victory               Parade, which was a Friday, and it was the 
afternoon               session in Studio B.  I was on Camera 3 (I was 
mostly on               three whichever studio I was in) and so I 
didn?t, at that               time, know very much about Ted Langley who 
was senior               cameraman in Studio A, as Frank Cresswell was 
the senior               camera man in Studio B.  The ?iron man? was not 
really               moveable except when your camera was not ?on air?. 
You               could move the camera around obviously, but it was 
fairly               heavy to move whilst you were actually on air.  You 
could               push it with one foot as long as you kept your 
balance               with the other one.  But the distance was only a 
matter of               how far your legs would stretch and still keep 
your               balance and keep control.

I was on that ?iron man? the day               the service reopened.  I 
didn?t realise (in my na?ve way),               that I was actually 
going to do the transmission.  I?d               being doing the 
rehearsal, but I hadn?t sort of twigged               that having done 
the rehearsal, I would necessarily do the               transmission.  I 
thought that all these chaps that were               dashing around 
being very, very, important were going to               take over the 
camera and do it on the transmission and I               was absolutely 
vapped when I found that I was doing it!                The next day it 
was the Outside Broadcast of the Victory               Parade, while I 
was in the studio working on ?The               Squadronnaires? 
(featuring Harry Lewis, Dame Vera Lynn?s               husband).  That 
was a great time.

Now,               lining up cameras ? that was a daily chore.  Each 
camera               operator took it in turns to line-up their camera, 
starting with camera 1.  I was usually on either camera 3 
or 4, so usually it was after morning tea before I got to 
line up my camera.  We pointed the camera at a chart, and 
it went on from there.  RACKS guided you as to what they 
saw on their screen, and you marked on your glass screen 
exactly where the picture limits were for that particular 
camera.  You went slightly beyond this limit, so you could 
see the boom microphone coming in from the top or 
something coming in from the sides before it got in shot. 
We also had to watch out for getting a beam from one of 
the studio lights light in picture - it used to kill the 
camera.  There used to be a burning smell and the camera 
had to have a new tube.

We used to see a               direct picture in the viewfinder.  The 
camera had two               lenses, a lens which went straight to the 
camera and a               lens to the side of it which gave the camera 
operator the               same picture but, being a lens, it inverted 
it ? it was               upside down and back to front.  You quickly 
learned to               look at the picture and quickly balance it and 
go with the               movement in the opposite direction to where 
you would               expect to be going looking at the picture! 
There was               something else we had to worry about too and 
that was the               power lags on the two lenses.  The one that 
went through               to the camera was dead straight on, but the 
one on the               side, of course, to keep on the same picture, 
had to come               at a slight angle from the other one so your 
picture               composition might not be exactly the same as the 
main               camera.  So, you had to do a little bit of adjustment 
on               that one too.

At the               end of transmission, we had to wheel our cameras to 
the               side of the studio and coil up the cables so that the 
floor of the studio was left clear, ready to build the 
sets for the next day?s programme.  It was a matter of 
honour that you didn?t leave the place looking a mess. 
Ted Langley and Ben Blooman were very keen on this, so we 
had to watch ourselves and make sure everything was just 
so.

Now it               was after Bimbi Harris came and I?d being doing 
camerawork               for quite some time, and she wanted to do that 
- I?m not               surprised, I thoroughly enjoyed it and didn?t 
see why she               wouldn?t want too!  One day a reporter came 
from a               television magazine and found out about there being 
a               ?cameraman? who was female or maybe he found out about 
two, I?m not quite sure.  Henry Whiting told me that they 
wanted to do a publicity picture of me on a camera and I 
was rather tickled at the idea, as you can imagine.  I was 
actually in Studio A the day the reporter arrived ? 
working on a show.  At the end of the programme, I tried 
to find this photographer only to discover that Bimbi had 
already been photographed on Camera 2, which was the               Crab! 
I can understand why he would have taken her               because she 
would certainly have taken a better picture               than I would 
have done.  But, because she was photographed               on a 
tracking camera and because she wasn?t the first               female 
operator, the blokes were a bit peeved.  Bimbi               hadn?t been 
at the Palace very long and I had been there               for a few 
years at that point, they didn?t think she               should have 
appeared on the tracking camera which, of               course, is not 
one she would have operated, and they               thought it should 
have been me.

Now the               next thing that happened which was why I and Bimbi 
came               off cameras  was due to the fact that the camera men 
wanted to get themselves a higher grade and they were 
trying to upgrade their pay in relation to the other 
operators around ? it was a very specialised job!  All the 
cameramen, as far as I know, including me, belonged to the 
Association of Senior Technicians, and they were expecting 
this Association to back their claim.  The Association 
didn?t like me being one of the camera crew because if I 
could do it then, obviously, it wasn?t such a very skilled 
job after all.  Henry, to avoid any splitting up of the 
blokes in the studio I presume, told me that I wouldn?t be 
able to do camerawork anymore.

I think everybody was a TA1 when               went to Alexandra Palace, 
but I can?t remember it being               stated as a requisite. 
However, when we had been there               some time a lot of chaps 
came out of the Forces, they had               not necessarily been in 
the BBC before the War.  The BBC               insisted those who were 
TA1?s would be B Grade.  Up until               that time, the 
difference between operators and engineers               had been an 
exam to get the status of B Grade, but they               shifted it up 
a peg to C, so the exam was between D Grade               and C, and 
that was the start of what became qualified               ?Engineers? as 
opposed to us ?Operators?.  We were all               still in the 
Engineering Division, but on different               grades.  It meant 
an increase in salary, but not, if I               remember correctly 
very much, and certainly not backdated               so it wasn?t quite 
so startling.

I remember that somebody on the               other shift was actually 
working quite hard to take the               exam.  Bertie Baker, stated 
quite categorically that no               female, even if they passed 
the exam, would be given a C               Grade job, so we could pass 
the exam if we wanted too but               we would still be B Grade. 
And so, somewhat to my relief               and certainly to the disgust 
of a number of people, who               felt they should have had the 
same opportunity as the rest               did, simmer down. I stayed on 
B Grade until I left.                 Well, as you can imagine, I was 
pretty peeved about               that, not just peeved, I was downright 
sick about the               whole thing.  I don?t know who told Bimbi, 
it might have               been Henry ? but, like me, she just wasn?t 
rostered on               cameras again.  Anyway, that was my end of 
women operating               cameras.  Henry decided that because I had 
been so               disappointed about coming off cameras - he thought 
well,               okay she can do some vision mixing and I went 
virtually               from the floor on cameras to vision mixing most 
of the               time.

When I got round to Vision Mixing               we weren?t able to cut, 
we were only able to fade up and               fade out.  A mix was 
achieved by bringing the fader up               onto the first stop, 
waiting, and then turning it full up               whenever we wanted 
it.  Because of the delay on the               picture coming up, we 
couldn?t just bring one in and take               one out as quickly as 
that without a bit of wind-up to               begin with!  They were 
beautiful knobs, you know, you               grasped them, and they 
filled your hand ? you knew you?d               got hold of them. 
Underneath each fader was a little               pushbutton which queued 
up the next picture that RACKS was               supposed to put on the 
preview channel for us in the               Gallery.  In those days 
there were only two screens in the               studio galleries - one 
was the transmitted picture and the               one that RACKS put up 
on preview whichever that happened               to be.  When you had a 
quick sequence, you had to yell               down to RACKS to be able 
to bring the preview channel up               quickly for you, 
otherwise, you?d be fading up channels               without actually 
having seen them first!

For gardening programmes when we used to             run a cable from 
Studio A, out over the balcony, down the             front of the 
building and through a channel underneath the             road to the 
garden on the other side of the road where Fred             Streeter 
would do his programme.  We were always wondering             if there 
was something he was going to hold that would have             to be 
bought back in the studio.  This was always left until             the 
last minute, someone would start taking it back, only to 
find it was needed back with Fred, and they had to bring it 
back quickly.  I didn?t do the camera work on the gardening 
programmes, but I did a lot of cable hauling.  On those days 
they used to stop the buses using anywhere in the park.  We 
had to have our badges to get through Alexandra Park and 
everybody else was kept out except for the buses - but the 
buses weren?t allowed to stop on their way through.

I               remember we were bored a lot of the time, but somehow or 
other the whole thing seemed to be absolutely joyous.  We 
were all enthusiastic, we were all keen on doing the thing 
we were doing ? we didn?t care what we did particularly, 
as long as we were involved, and involved we certainly got 
ourselves!

The ?Dive? used to be absolutely             beautiful in Spring when 
all the cherry blossom trees were             in bloom.  With hindsight 
it was really and truly rather a             dive!  It?s just that it 
was there, it was convenient and             you could go over there 
just before the evening transmission             and, ahh well . . . . 
it was a place to relax!

I hope             the above has been of interest.

Many             thanks

Simon



Simon Vaughan
Archivist
for and on behalf of
Alexandra Palace Television Society
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tel:       +44 (0) 1332 729358
Mob:     +44 (0) 7791 780882
E-mail:  apts at apts.org.uk
Web:     www.apts.org.uk
                www.youtube.com/aptsarchive
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Alexandra Palace               Television Society is a 
not-for-profit organisation,               dedicated to preserving for 
present and future               generations, the oral and written 
history of the pioneers               who inaugurated the world's first 
regular public               high-definition television service from 
Alexandra Palace,               north London, in 1936.

This e-mail and any               files transmitted with it are 
confidential and intended               solely for the use of the 
individual or entity to whom               they are addressed.  If you 
have received this e-mail in               error please notify the 
system manager: postmaster at apts.org.uk





From: Alec Bray               <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com> 
<mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
                Date: Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 10:00
                To: Simon Vaughan 
<simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com> <mailto:simonvaughan.apts at gmail.com>
                Cc: APTS Archivist <apts at apts.org.uk> 
<mailto:apts at apts.org.uk> , Tech               Ops 
<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
                Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a 
photograph - poss another female camerawoman?




Hi Simon,
Thank you very much for the photos of the Emitron Cameras! 
Thanks, too, for the explanation of the horizontal "bar". As I 
mentioned, I had not seen any photos of the original Emitrons 
with lens hoods - that front-on view is an interesting photo 
in its own right.  And I certainly did not release how many 
different "design iterations" there were for those early 
Emitrons  and I can see why you thought that she might be 
operating the camera!!
I have had another go at photo-manipulation.  The vertical 
cable seems to come from the bottom of the camera (viewfinder) 
and not from the lady's hand.
<image001.png>

The lady is wearing a bangle or a bangle which incorporates a 
wristwatch - it is clearer in some manipulations as to how the 
light is reflected.
<image002.png>

<image003.png>


Do we see the face of the watch in the photo where the lady           is 
barely seen?
<image004.png>


Anyway, it seems that the lady in question is doing 
"something" with something near to or attached to the camera: 
it seems to be a smallish knob.or cylindrical object, perhaps 
mounted on a rectangular plinth sticking out from the side of 
the camera - tricky to see in the shadows.

<image005.png>


I hope that this is of interest!  I have reached the limit of 
what I can do to separate out the grey scale at this area.
A very intriguing picture, Simon - and with your photos of 
original Emitrons in various configurations you may be able to 
say what the lady is doing!         --          ======= 
Alec Bray                   alec.bray.2 at gmail.com 
<mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>          Mob:  07789 561 346         Tel: 
0118 981 7502



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From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Jul 24 06:06:06 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 12:06:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Phone calls
In-Reply-To: <cc0d6e05-e47b-9faf-9f64-94a3a4ec5423@btinternet.com>
References: <cc0d6e05-e47b-9faf-9f64-94a3a4ec5423@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <595104c5dfdavesound@btinternet.com>

Oddly, the same sort of phone call I had years ago claimed to come from
Hammersmith police station. Perhaps because it covers the Westfield
shopping thingie, where they claimed the crime had taken place.

I doubt many of these scammers dream up the scam themselves. Just adapt an
existing one. 


In article <cc0d6e05-e47b-9faf-9f64-94a3a4ec5423 at btinternet.com>,
   dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I have just had another one from the police! This time the Detective 
> Constable claims that they have arrested a young man called Derek Mundy 
> who lives with us, do I recognise the name? Of course I don't . So I 
> asked him his shoulder number and he gave me a long warrant number and 
> said he was in Hammersmith where the offence of money laundering had 
> taken place. I said that I had a phone caall from the police not long 
> ago which turned out to be a coplete fake so I was very wary about 
> talking to the police and the line suddenly went strange with some beeps 
> and a female voice if she could help and then 'F**K OFF' . Amazing isn't 
> it? Cheers, Dave

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Jul 24 06:16:54 2021
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 12:16:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Repair Shop
Message-ID: <595105c324davesound@btinternet.com>

Latest episode of the brake pipe saga is as regards the master cylinder.
It is a tandem type with two outputs (for split circuit brakes) They are
different sizes. One 12mm, one 10mm. (10mm being the one used for all
other male unions on the car) Although the actual pipes are the same 3/16".

Only one of the new pipes has a 12mm union. A long one which runs from the
master cylinder to the LH side. Yet on my original pipes it is a short one
which goes to the balance valve close to the master cylinder which has the
only 12mm union. So this kit would swap them over. It may not matter - but
not something I'm going to risk. So have had to make up two new pipes.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 24 06:32:32 2021
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 12:32:32 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female
 camerawomanM
In-Reply-To: <c59c23d4-fd33-b8aa-53b0-ef8bfb14a58a@gmail.com>
References: <EFC165DA-2F92-4A74-B86F-12916532CD9B@apts.org.uk>
	<c59c23d4-fd33-b8aa-53b0-ef8bfb14a58a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6ecbb980-d491-636a-9d2c-5fd2fb17121c@gmail.com>

Hi all,

On 23/07/2021 21:51, Mike via Tech1 wrote:
> I have been intrigued by this thread.

I too have been intrigued by this thread!? When I joined the Beeb in 
January 1963, Vision Mixers were definitely Technical Operators and were 
scheduled along with the other Tech Ops people (although at this time, 
the VMs were not scheduled with the crews).

This placing of Vision Mixing in Tech Ops happened because ... in 
Molly's words "/Henry decided that because I had been so disappointed 
about coming off cameras - he thought well, okay she can do some vision 
mixing and I went virtually from the floor on cameras to vision mixing 
most of the time."/


Shortly after i joined and IIRC certainly before the end of 1963, the 
Vision Mixers were transferred from Technical Operations to Production.? 
So for a while afterwards there were AFAIK no women studio technical 
operators for some time.


Best regards,

Alec

-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jul 24 07:08:36 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 13:08:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Electric Aircraft
Message-ID: <60fc02c4.1c69fb81.f7c5a.1a95@mx.google.com>

Something that might be of interest to those concerned about carbon emissions.
TV channel PBS America (FV84) is running a programme on ?The Great Electric Airplane Race?
Thurs 29th July, 19:20 ? 20:35 Freeview 84

My good friend?s brother, used to operate the helicopter service from Penzance to the Scillies, and is now involved with developing electric engined aircraft, he?s planning on instituting a service to the Channel Islands some time in the future, I believe.

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jul 24 07:18:16 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 13:18:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another
 femalecamerawomanM
In-Reply-To: <5b8a00bf.2f7ee.17ad80ba241.Webtop.114@btinternet.com>
References: <240e1253.2ed70.17ad531fa5b.Webtop.106@btinternet.com>
	<85E20426-7510-46F0-B072-A4087780BEC2@gmail.com>
	<5b8a00bf.2f7ee.17ad80ba241.Webtop.114@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <60fc0509.1c69fb81.60bed.a7cc@mx.google.com>

I would hope that Simon has in hand, the acquisition of the interview for the AP History library!

It is quite sad that just in the last few months, appeals have been made for people who were active in early , and indeed, more recent times, to offer their reminiscences. Many of these folk have not survived the final ?fade to black?
Pat
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: SUSAN MALDEN via Tech1
Sent: 24 July 2021 11:24
To: Simon Vaughan
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; mikedick at blueyonder.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another femalecamerawomanM

Many thanks Simon

Cheers Sue




------ Original Message ------
From: "Simon Vaughan via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
To: "SUSAN MALDEN" <sue.malden at btinternet.com>
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; mikedick at blueyonder.co.uk
Sent: Saturday, 24 Jul, 21 At 11:17
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female camerawomanM

Hi Sue,
I?ll send you a direct email with Jeannine Baker?s contact details once I?m at home later. 
Best wishes
Si
Simon Vaughan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tel: +44 (0)1332 729358
Mob: +44 (0)7791 780882
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sent from my iPad

On 23 Jul 2021, at 22:08, SUSAN MALDEN via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
? 
This is an amazing string of emails with such important broadcasting historical information. As Albert has suggested - I would love the opportunity to bring all these threads together in an article for the BBCPA 

Also I would like to explore the relevance of the BEHP interview with Bimbi Harris https://historyproject.org.uk/interview/barbara-bimbi-harris to these recollections from Molly. 

Does any one have contact details for Dr Jeannine Baker who has recorded a long interview with Molly.It would be so important to hear this interview and make sure that it is saved for future

Regards Sue



------ Original Message ------
From: "Mike via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; mike.jdg.minchin at gmail.com
Sent: Friday, 23 Jul, 21 At 21:51
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help in identifying a photograph - poss another female camerawoman
I have been intrigued by this thread. When I joined Tech.Ops in 1960 the understanding was that the group of Lady Vision mixers "of a certain age" had been recruited in around 1946 as Camera operators while the men were still in the army. Molly's reminiscences sort of support this story (though she was with the BBC earlier than 1946). What I now find interesting was her mention of a colleague called Rachel. Could that be the legendary Rachel Blaney, famed for the double clunk as she kept the next camera on the Preview Monitor? It ties in with the way that Molly had to "mix".
Mike Minchin



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From waresound at msn.com  Sat Jul 24 13:30:52 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 18:30:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Electric Aircraft
In-Reply-To: <60fc02c4.1c69fb81.f7c5a.1a95@mx.google.com>
References: <60fc02c4.1c69fb81.f7c5a.1a95@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981D7722CF4D54764AAD0D4A7E69@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

For some time I?ve been marvelling at the amount of physical energy that my hyperactive Cavalier King Charles spaniels manage to extract from a small bowl of dog biscuits. I?ve come to the conclusion that there must be some secret super-efficient energy storage ingredient in dog biscuits. The weight-in to weight-out ratio seems to be about 1:1, so what makes ?em go so fast?
In the absence of any foreseeable battery technology capable of long-term powering electric cars, let alone aircraft, maybe dog biscuits might be the fuel that electric vehicle fantasists have been looking for?
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 24 Jul 2021, at 13:09, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Something that might be of interest to those concerned about carbon emissions.
TV channel PBS America (FV84) is running a programme on ?The Great Electric Airplane Race?
Thurs 29th July, 19:20 ? 20:35 Freeview 84

My good friend?s brother, used to operate the helicopter service from Penzance to the Scillies, and is now involved with developing electric engined aircraft, he?s planning on instituting a service to the Channel Islands some time in the future, I believe.

Pat

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jul 24 15:00:23 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 21:00:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Electric Aircraft
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981D7722CF4D54764AAD0D4A7E69@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <60fc02c4.1c69fb81.f7c5a.1a95@mx.google.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981D7722CF4D54764AAD0D4A7E69@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <60fc7158.1c69fb81.40c2c.778d@mx.google.com>

Did you ever have the Frog model aircraft, that sat in its box with the wings sticking out, and a handle at the front to wind up the elastic ? very lightweight aluminium construction.
What boy wouldn?t have hankered after radio controlled model aircraft? When one see what the guys do for feature films is amazing.
Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

i 5





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From techtone at protonmail.com  Sat Jul 24 15:25:11 2021
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 20:25:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Air con
In-Reply-To: <c74a5dde-bcab-71bc-2f54-f9b0f76bde61@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <d6d47cc3-eb48-a1da-4a57-1448959aa24d@gmail.com>
	<9794A7A1-DA17-40DE-87D7-DAF87130EF2B@btinternet.com>
	<c74a5dde-bcab-71bc-2f54-f9b0f76bde61@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <KIgbFql6yJUkbhXQ3MCU-iTiVRpFugTgCsVtRxTmWoIq7YhtJ7opHehwsiibBcOVYuybVzihWjz__OdNQS5dlRPU6qEgi6tS4osQ6A8YKIg=@protonmail.com>

Thank you for all your ideas, I see now that I don't live in an old enough cottage, as ours only dates from 1750. Nevertheless, the 1750's lounge stayed reasonably cool throughout this present heatwave, but the 'modern' part, probably built in the 70s, hasn't stayed nearly so cool, and has our bedrooms, which have got too hot for a comfortable night's sleep. Fortunately, things have cooled at night since yesterday, so at present all the doors and windows are open.

BUT - yes, the only problem with this is the great number (and variety!) of insects that are inclined to enjoy our company, and sample any odds and ends inadvertently left lying around, ah the benefits of living in the country. I appreciate the idea of mesh, but being an old cottage, there are lots of small windows, and so the amount of frigging in the rigging to manufacture enough fixtures to cover all these entries, not to mention the amount of time to rig and derig each summer makes me think that I may investigate one (or more) of those electric blue light insect zappers that you see in shops.

In previous hot spells, we fared ok, as here in North Wales they didn't last more than three or four days at the most, before the temperature dropped back to a relatively comfortable level. Where we used to live in Buckinghamshire, I remember we had fans to keep a flow of air in several rooms in the house, and I think that's one thing I'll have to invest in for future use.

Being from Northern Ireland, and thus brought up in moderate climes, I really don't enjoy very hot conditions, and so haven't been to those foreign Southern climes when it's the height of summer, and thus haven't come across those pools or bowls of water to help indoor cooling. Whilst I will investigate this further, too often the problem here is high levels of humidity, and to combat this, we have two dehumidifiers to keep the interior relatively dry throughout the colder months.

Worst case scenario is buying a small (portable?) air con unit for use during the day should the number and severity of these episodes increase in future. What might be termed in the words of our 5 year old granddaughter as 'Way cool'.

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.

??????? Original Message ???????
On Thursday, July 22nd, 2021 at 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> On 21/07/2021 23:26, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>
>> We live in a thick walled stone cottage from 1760.
>
> Oh Roger, I didn't realise you lived in a *modern* house! Mine's nearer 1520;}
>
> But, yes, in those days they understood a lot about large thermal masses and energy-efficient cooling. Nothing beats slate floors.
>
> Really the best arrangement is to install underfloor pipework in all new houses. You can then use that for both heating and cooling, which is completely silent - not even the gurgling of radiator pipework (in copper, steel or kunifer).
>
> If you can organise a decent thermally driven airflow through a building, then bowls of water can provide a phenomenal level of cooling. A lot of Mediterranean and North African buildings used that system - often a small pool in a central courtyard - and could provide levels of "aircon" that cost us ?10s a day and a terrible noise penalty.
>
> Chris Woolf
>
>> The southwest face gets to high 30s ,we open front and back doors , and the temperature differential drives a cooling breeze through the ground floors.
>> The best airco I have ever experienced , silent and cool.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 21 Jul 2021, at 22:54, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 [<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>](mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk) wrote:
>>
>>> ? Long ago I bought a portable aircon machine for my young son's bedroom, which is on the sunny corner of the house and doesn't have good ventilation.
>>>
>>> Twenty years on, it's here behind me in my small "office", with the tube stuck out the window. It's the only room in the house where it's comfortable to be, though it's jolly noisy. In a few days it will go back into it's corner till next year.
>>>
>>> B
>>>
>>> On 21/07/2021 21:30, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
>>>
>>>> With all this talk of plumbing and pipework, I suddenly wondered if any of you have an air con unit at home. When we lived in Chalfont St. Peter, one of our neighbours had air con in his lounge, but it was seriously noisy when running, and I think the noise would have made a good night's sleep difficult if it was necessary to run it during the night.
>>>>
>>>> So, any thoughts on keeping cool indoors during this weather (considering the possibility of more of the same in future years)?
>>>>
>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>>
>>>> Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Jul 24 15:47:17 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 21:47:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Air con
In-Reply-To: <KIgbFql6yJUkbhXQ3MCU-iTiVRpFugTgCsVtRxTmWoIq7YhtJ7opHehwsiibBcOVYuybVzihWjz__OdNQS5dlRPU6qEgi6tS4osQ6A8YKIg=@protonmail.com>
References: <KIgbFql6yJUkbhXQ3MCU-iTiVRpFugTgCsVtRxTmWoIq7YhtJ7opHehwsiibBcOVYuybVzihWjz__OdNQS5dlRPU6qEgi6tS4osQ6A8YKIg=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <734155BE-C9CF-406D-84F1-0887E6DD48D9@me.com>

If you?re thinking of getting an electronic bug zapper, my advice would be to ignore the usual ones with UV fluorescent tubes and to look out for one with LED UV lighting instead.

We like having the back door open in hot weather and despite having what is supposed to be a bug-proof curtain across the door, the little devils still get in.  We?ve had several of the fluorescent bug zappers and they do seem to get through tubes and starters at a rate of knots.  We got an LED one from a branch of Nisbet?s kitchen shops for about ?40 and it?s been runnng flawlessly for a year or two. It?s predecessors would have needed several replacement parts by now. 

Alan Taylor

> On 24 Jul 2021, at 21:25, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Thank you for all your ideas, I see now that I don't live in an old enough cottage, as ours only dates from 1750. Nevertheless, the 1750's lounge stayed reasonably cool throughout this present heatwave, but the 'modern' part, probably built in the 70s, hasn't stayed nearly so cool, and has our bedrooms, which have got too hot for a comfortable night's sleep. Fortunately, things have cooled at night since yesterday, so at present all the doors and windows are open.
> 
> BUT -  yes, the only problem with this is the great number (and variety!) of insects that are inclined to enjoy our company, and sample any odds and ends inadvertently left lying around, ah the benefits of living in the country. I appreciate the idea of mesh, but being an old cottage, there are lots of small windows, and so the amount of frigging in the rigging to manufacture enough fixtures to cover all these entries, not to mention the amount of time to rig and derig each summer makes me think that I may investigate one (or more) of those electric blue light insect zappers that you see in shops.
> 
> In previous hot spells, we fared ok, as here in North Wales they didn't last more than three or four days at the most, before the temperature dropped back to a relatively comfortable level. Where we used to live in Buckinghamshire, I remember we had fans to keep a flow of air in several rooms in the house, and I think that's one thing I'll have to invest in for future use.
> 
> Being from Northern Ireland, and thus brought up in moderate climes, I really don't enjoy very hot conditions, and so haven't been to those foreign Southern climes when it's the height of summer, and thus haven't come across those pools or bowls of water to help indoor cooling. Whilst I will investigate this further, too often the problem here is high levels of humidity, and to combat this, we have two dehumidifiers to keep the interior relatively dry throughout the colder months.
> 
> Worst case scenario is buying a small (portable?) air con unit for use during the day should the number and severity of these episodes increase in future. What might be termed in the words of our 5 year old granddaughter as 'Way cool'.
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> 
> ??????? Original Message ???????
>> On Thursday, July 22nd, 2021 at 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> On 21/07/2021 23:26, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:
>>> We live in a thick walled stone cottage from 1760.
>> Oh Roger, I didn't realise you lived in a *modern* house! Mine's nearer 1520;}
>> 
>> But, yes, in those days they understood a lot about large thermal masses and energy-efficient cooling. Nothing beats slate floors.
>> 
>> Really the best arrangement is to install underfloor pipework in all new houses. You can then use that for both heating and cooling, which is completely silent - not even the gurgling of radiator pipework (in copper, steel or kunifer). 
>> 
>> If you can organise a decent thermally driven airflow through a building, then bowls of water can provide a phenomenal level of cooling. A lot of Mediterranean and North African buildings used that system - often a small pool in a central courtyard -  and could provide levels of "aircon" that cost us ?10s a day and a terrible noise penalty.
>> 
>> Chris Woolf
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> The southwest face gets to high 30s ,we open front and back doors , and the temperature differential drives a cooling  breeze through the ground floors.
>>> The best airco I have ever experienced  , silent and cool.
>>> 
>>> Roger
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On 21 Jul 2021, at 22:54, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ? Long ago I bought a portable aircon machine for my young son's bedroom, which is on the sunny corner of the house and doesn't have good ventilation. 
>>>> 
>>>> Twenty years on, it's here behind me in my small "office", with the tube stuck out the window. It's the only room in the house where it's comfortable to be, though it's jolly noisy.  In a few days it will go back into it's corner till next year.
>>>> 
>>>> B
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 21/07/2021 21:30, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> With all this talk of plumbing and pipework, I suddenly wondered if any of you have an air con unit at home. When we lived in Chalfont St. Peter, one of our neighbours had air con in his lounge, but it was seriously noisy when running, and I think the noise would have made a good night's sleep difficult if it was necessary to run it during the night.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, any thoughts on keeping cool indoors during this weather (considering the possibility of more of the same in future years)?
>>>>> 
>>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>> 
>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jul 24 16:58:56 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 22:58:56 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Air con
In-Reply-To: <KIgbFql6yJUkbhXQ3MCU-iTiVRpFugTgCsVtRxTmWoIq7YhtJ7opHehwsiibBcOVYuybVzihWjz__OdNQS5dlRPU6qEgi6tS4osQ6A8YKIg=@protonmail.com>
References: <d6d47cc3-eb48-a1da-4a57-1448959aa24d@gmail.com>
	<9794A7A1-DA17-40DE-87D7-DAF87130EF2B@btinternet.com>
	<c74a5dde-bcab-71bc-2f54-f9b0f76bde61@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<KIgbFql6yJUkbhXQ3MCU-iTiVRpFugTgCsVtRxTmWoIq7YhtJ7opHehwsiibBcOVYuybVzihWjz__OdNQS5dlRPU6qEgi6tS4osQ6A8YKIg=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <60fc8d20.1c69fb81.5367e.430b@mx.google.com>

I count myself lucky, as my first floor flat keeps pretty cool, owing to a belt of chestnut trees which shade the building.
I?m reminded of a shoot down near Shaftsbury, staying in a hotel in 1976 ? a very, very hot summer, and I could not persuade the room maids to keep the bedroom curtains drawn during the day.
(Would you believe that the programme, for Thames, was Sooty on location! ? actually a very pleasant job, & great fun!)
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: techtone via Tech1
Sent: 24 July 2021 21:25
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Air con

Thank you for all your ideas, I see now that I don't live in an old enough cottage, as ours only dates from 1750. Nevertheless, the 1750's lounge stayed reasonably cool throughout this present heatwave, but the 'modern' part, probably built in the 70s, hasn't stayed nearly so cool



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From geoffletch at gmail.com  Sat Jul 24 17:31:09 2021
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 23:31:09 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Electric Aircraft
In-Reply-To: <60fc7158.1c69fb81.40c2c.778d@mx.google.com>
References: <60fc02c4.1c69fb81.f7c5a.1a95@mx.google.com>
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Message-ID: <7C4332C8-D102-4CE2-8B5A-102C1E7BBD2D@gmail.com>

Yep - had at least 2 of these. Great flyers as I recall. Remember JeteX motors?
Geoff F


> On 24 Jul 2021, at 21:00, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Did you ever have the Frog model aircraft, that sat in its box with the wings sticking out, and a handle at the front to wind up the elastic ? very lightweight aluminium construction.
> What boy wouldn?t have hankered after radio controlled model aircraft? When one see what the guys do for feature films is amazing.
> Best
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat Jul 24 17:54:38 2021
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2021 23:54:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Confirm the payment
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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Sun Jul 25 04:00:00 2021
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 10:00:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Andrew Hunter
Message-ID: <18DF412A-9F4D-41AB-B02C-C65ADCAEE676@btinternet.com>

Hi All,
	Some sad news. Famous Gram Op and very affable and humorous person Andrew Hunter died on July 12th.  His music editing on ?Pennies from Heaven? was remarkable.
He was a lover of canalling and he and I along with various other sound people had holidayed annually on the BBC Club narrowboat  ?Savoy Hill? for 41 years! 1974 -2015. 
We?d also been to Little Cayman, Anegada, and Bermuda and spent quite a few years on an annual trip to Ullapool on the west coast of Scotland.

A sad loss.

	Barry.



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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Sun Jul 25 05:10:26 2021
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul thackray)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 11:10:26 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Petition: Move the State Pension age back to 60 for
 both men & women
In-Reply-To: <45E520A8-6CD7-4393-B169-534531011407@gmail.com>
References: <5677BFE5-9210-4AF1-98DC-14D9719DEE3E@icloud.com>
	<45E520A8-6CD7-4393-B169-534531011407@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b1abae61-f82a-e832-d61d-abfeba790938@pgtmedia.co.uk>

The big issue for state pension is , unlike works or private pensions 
where your contributions are invested to pay the pension, the state 
system is to use the contributions to pay current pensions. As a result 
all the contributions those in this group ever made, were used to pay 
(state) pensions for your parents and grand parents. Your state pension 
is being paid by those in work (inc Your children and grand children)

Sad as it is, but as a result of Covid the average life expectancy has 
fallen (by arround 2 years in the last 18 months I think) Every extra 
death is a pension that will not be paid. You could argue the govermant 
should hold off on more changes to the pension age untill the future is 
known, but thay have just confirmed the next change (retirment at 68 for 
those born after 1970)

Bring the retirment age down to 60 for the current generations , would 
be a masive expence for all thier decendants.

Paul (State retirement age 67 if I get that far!)

On 22/07/2021 11:20, Geoffrey Hawkes wrote:
> I think whoever drew up that petition is chasing rainbows under the present economic situation and when as Paul says, life expectancy for the population in the western world has steadily increased over the last half century.
> Both men and women who are in good health are quite capable of carrying on working well into their sixties as I and others of our colleagues did and some continued into their seventies with enjoyment. It?s good for the self esteem too, to know that we are still valued by an employer in that way and not written off as past it.
> There are exceptions to this if the work is physically demanding or in cases like the police, though George Dixon was probably older than most when depicted as being still in office.
> Personally as one who is witnessing the devastation to the countryside in the Chiltern hills and valleys near to where I live as way is made for HS2, I and may others would like to see that scrapped. Realistically there?s fat chance of that as it?s gone too far already, though the inhabitants of tree houses I see along parts of the route won?t give up till they?re carried off by the panoply of security guards who stand silently facing them down day after day.
> I?m not sure what the target date is for the first trains to be running along it, or even any track installed as there?s lots more groundwork to be done before that, but if Crossrail is anything to go by, it?s more likely to be in the forties rather than the thirties and I?ll be unlikely to see it,
>
> Geoff Hawkes
>
>> On 22 Jul 2021, at 10:21, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?When first introduced back in 1908, the state pension age was 70. I think it was established as 65 for men and 60 for women in 1946. Company pensions could often have a lower age, as did the civil service.
>>
>> As an aside I remember a talk on the BBC pension at Evesham. The guy doing the presentation mentioned that, in the engineering division, the fund paid out pensions for an average of 18 MONTHS after retirement. And this was retiring at 60!
>>
>> Graeme Wall
>>
>>> On 22 Jul 2021, at 09:24, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?As far as I know the age has never been 60 for men!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul Thackray
>>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>>> +44 7802 243979
>>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>>> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      Original Message
>>>
>>>
>>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Sent: 22 July 2021 00:21
>>> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Reply to: mibridge at mac.com
>>> Subject: [Tech1] Petition: Move the State Pension age back to 60 for both men & women
>>>
>>>
>>> ?I don?t think this counts as political (sorry if I am mistaken) but in view of our favoured status as ?baby boomers?, many of us, with all the benefits that that accident of birth brought us, it?s the least we can do for our offspring. Apologise to those not so blessed!
>>>
>>> Mike G
>>>
>>> https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/581736
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-- 
Paul Thackray
PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
07802 243979
Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Jul 25 05:29:01 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 11:29:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Jetex motors
In-Reply-To: <7C4332C8-D102-4CE2-8B5A-102C1E7BBD2D@gmail.com>
References: <60fc02c4.1c69fb81.f7c5a.1a95@mx.google.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981D7722CF4D54764AAD0D4A7E69@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<60fc7158.1c69fb81.40c2c.778d@mx.google.com>
	<7C4332C8-D102-4CE2-8B5A-102C1E7BBD2D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60fd3cee.1c69fb81.c0c2d.c44f@mx.google.com>

Certainly ? I built the Jetex Spaceship, and a Hawker Hunter from kits. The latter had an ?augmenter? tube, sort of an exhaust pipe running internally down the fuselage.
Then there was the helicopter, which had two Jetex motors, one on either end of the rotor.
Happy times!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Geoff Fletcher
Sent: 24 July 2021 23:31
To: patheigham
Cc: Nick Ware; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Electric Aircraft

Yep - had at least 2 of these. Great flyers as I recall. Remember JeteX motors?
Geoff F






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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Jul 25 06:17:44 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 12:17:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Electric Aircraft
In-Reply-To: <7C4332C8-D102-4CE2-8B5A-102C1E7BBD2D@gmail.com>
References: <7C4332C8-D102-4CE2-8B5A-102C1E7BBD2D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5F53EFCE-966B-4431-83C7-B92D07C40B41@me.com>

I used to do a lot of aero modelling and Jetex was possibly the cheapest way of achieving powered flight. I made a number of Jetex powered models.

One which stuck in my memory was a high performance glider which used a Jetex motor to reach a decent height before gliding down.  There were two problems, one is that rocket propulsion is not a particularly efficient way of powering a relatively slow moving object like a glider.  The other was that as a glider, with proper built up wings covered in doped tissue, it was quite good at staying aloft on a sunny day and it?s final flight started off in Port Meadow at Oxford but headed off towards a huge construction site which is now known as the Peartree services. I lost sight of it and was unable to work out where it ended up.  I got into the building site, which wasn?t working on a Sunday, but couldn?t find any sign of it.

After that I was motivated to make radio controlled models as there was less chance of them flying into the blue yonder, but of course there was a greater chance of damage due to pilot error.  R/C technology was quite crude in those days.  Some people flying in Port Meadow used valve transmitters.  I built my own transistorised setup which was single channel and operated a rubber band powered escapement mechanism.  The transmitter just had a push button, the rudder starts straight, first press turns left, next press straight again and the next press goes right, then straight again after another press.  You soon learn to quickly press three times if you want to skip the right turn and do a second left turn. Not really suited to aerobatics, but quite good at keeping it within the flying field.

I also messed about with electric powered flight in the mid to late 60s.  The available motors were either light and weak, or powerful and heavy, batteries were either heavy or ridiculously heavy. My solution was to try and make an electrically powered control line model where to have two wires going out to the wing tip and then to a lever which operates the elevator.  You hold a handle and by tilting it up or down, you make the plane fly up and down while it circles around you.  It?s quite easy to loop the loop with those models.  The electrical powered ones proved to be pretty poor.  The resistance of the wires reduced the power at the engine, but thicker wires would be too heavy. The small motors could barely fly fast enough to keep the tension on the wire, while the powerful ones needed higher voltage power supplies to overcome the loss in the cable.  Suffice it to say that it never really caught on.  

I did make a nice flying toy for my kid brother.  It was a smaller variant of the electric control line plane, but there was a vertical post ( broom handle ) with slip rings ( ball bearings ) to feed the power.  It could be set up in the garden and powered at a distance via a model railway transformer. Adjust the voltage and you control how fast or high it flies, but of course always in circles.

Alan Taylor

> On 24 Jul 2021, at 23:31, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Yep - had at least 2 of these. Great flyers as I recall. Remember JeteX motors?
> Geoff F
> 
> 
>> On 24 Jul 2021, at 21:00, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Did you ever have the Frog model aircraft, that sat in its box with the wings sticking out, and a handle at the front to wind up the elastic ? very lightweight aluminium construction.
>> What boy wouldn?t have hankered after radio controlled model aircraft? When one see what the guys do for feature films is amazing.
>> Best
>> Pat
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> i 5<B0DB67101ED54D428A48560A65583C6C.jpg>
>> 
>> 
>> <10988D689A714BD69427D608B05EE12B.jpg>
>> 
>> 
>> 	
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
>> <B0DB67101ED54D428A48560A65583C6C.jpg><10988D689A714BD69427D608B05EE12B.jpg>-- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Jul 25 06:57:11 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 12:57:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Meccano
Message-ID: <60fd5197.1c69fb81.21b7f.b760@mx.google.com>

Albert, thank you for the 1940(!) issue of the Meccano Mag. What memories it triggered:
My pussycat liked to join in with whatever I was playing with on the floor, and would sit in the open Meccano box, on all the bits and pieces ? must have been rather uncomfy.
On returning from Singapore, where Dad was posted to REME workshops, I went to buy ?The Duchess of Montrose? Hornby Dublo locomotive. I was used to bargaining the price in the toy stalls of Change Alley so went into that mode. The shop owner (our next door neighbour) was so amused that he let me have it at my offered price! Still have it in my loft.
I had a Meccano motor to drive the screen curtains of my ?hut? cinema, but it really wasn?t powerful enough.
Seeing the pictures of steam locos reminded me of a day out when I took a girlfriend for a surprise trip on the Bluebell Line.
Seeing the steam engines, she delightedly exclaimed: ?Choo-choo?s!?

Such a shame that construction kits like Meccano have been superceded by computer games for today?s youngsters? interest.

Regards
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10



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From geoffletch at gmail.com  Sun Jul 25 07:23:17 2021
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 13:23:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Jetex motors
In-Reply-To: <60fd3cee.1c69fb81.c0c2d.c44f@mx.google.com>
References: <60fc02c4.1c69fb81.f7c5a.1a95@mx.google.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981D7722CF4D54764AAD0D4A7E69@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<60fc7158.1c69fb81.40c2c.778d@mx.google.com>
	<7C4332C8-D102-4CE2-8B5A-102C1E7BBD2D@gmail.com>
	<60fd3cee.1c69fb81.c0c2d.c44f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5417E8A2-F582-46CC-863A-ED4E1D04B9F1@gmail.com>

Like you Pat, I built a Jetex powered Keil Kraft Hunter with augmenter tube, and also a Douglas Skyrocket. I eventually went on to A2 gliders. I lived way out in the Shropshire countryside, so losing them wasn?t too much of a problem, but I still fitted them with a dethermaliser device. I spent one summer holiday bukliding a Keil Kraft 6ft wingspan Chieftain glider. Took it out to a field to adjacent to our house to trim it out and get it up for a first flight. The loca lfarmer, a man of evil disposition, came out with his 12 bore and shot i tdown! It disappeared in a big cloud of tssue and balsa shreds and all I had lef was a couple  f wingtips. He nearly bust a gut laughing.I had my revenge later, but that?s another story. One of my bes tflyers was another 6ft span aircraft, a Veron Cardinal I think. This was poweredby an EG Bee single cylinder motor and reached great heights. The dethermaliser failed on it?s last flight, and I really did lose it as it headed off into the wild blue yonder never to be found again. 
Geoff F

> On 25 Jul 2021, at 11:29, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
> 
> Certainly ? I built the Jetex Spaceship, and a Hawker Hunter from kits. The latter had an ?augmenter? tube, sort of an exhaust pipe running internally down the fuselage.
> Then there was the helicopter, which had two Jetex motors, one on either end of the rotor.
> Happy times!
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
> From: Geoff Fletcher <mailto:geoffletch at gmail.com>
> Sent: 24 July 2021 23:31
> To: patheigham <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net>
> Cc: Nick Ware <mailto:waresound at msn.com>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Electric Aircraft
>  
> Yep - had at least 2 of these. Great flyers as I recall. Remember JeteX motors?
> Geoff F
>  
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>  <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>  <x-msg://1/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sun Jul 25 08:08:37 2021
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 14:08:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Jetex motors
In-Reply-To: <5417E8A2-F582-46CC-863A-ED4E1D04B9F1@gmail.com>
References: <60fc02c4.1c69fb81.f7c5a.1a95@mx.google.com><PAXP191MB1981D7722CF4D54764AAD0D4A7E69@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM><60fc7158.1c69fb81.40c2c.778d@mx.google.com><7C4332C8-D102-4CE2-8B5A-102C1E7BBD2D@gmail.com><60fd3cee.1c69fb81.c0c2d.c44f@mx.google.com>
	<5417E8A2-F582-46CC-863A-ED4E1D04B9F1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <832F261B0BF64BE2B568B78A2FBF9546@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

I had been wondering how long it would be before someone mentioned EG Bee engines! Unbelievable numbers of Baby Bees were sold over many many years and I understand the genre still has an enthusiastic following.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2021 1:23 PM
To: patheigham 
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Jetex motors

Like you Pat, I built a Jetex powered Keil Kraft Hunter with augmenter tube, and also a Douglas Skyrocket. I eventually went on to A2 gliders. I lived way out in the Shropshire countryside, so losing them wasn?t too much of a problem, but I still fitted them with a dethermaliser device. I spent one summer holiday bukliding a Keil Kraft 6ft wingspan Chieftain glider. Took it out to a field to adjacent to our house to trim it out and get it up for a first flight. The loca lfarmer, a man of evil disposition, came out with his 12 bore and shot i tdown! It disappeared in a big cloud of tssue and balsa shreds and all I had lef was a couple  f wingtips. He nearly bust a gut laughing.I had my revenge later, but that?s another story. One of my bes tflyers was another 6ft span aircraft, a Veron Cardinal I think. This was poweredby an EG Bee single cylinder motor and reached great heights. The dethermaliser failed on it?s last flight, and I really did lose it as it headed off into the wild blue yonder never to be found again.  
Geoff F



  On 25 Jul 2021, at 11:29, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:

  Certainly ? I built the Jetex Spaceship, and a Hawker Hunter from kits. The latter had an ?augmenter? tube, sort of an exhaust pipe running internally down the fuselage.
  Then there was the helicopter, which had two Jetex motors, one on either end of the rotor.
  Happy times!
  Pat
   
  Sent from Mail for Windows 10
   
  From: Geoff Fletcher
  Sent: 24 July 2021 23:31
  To: patheigham
  Cc: Nick Ware; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
  Subject: Re: [Tech1] Electric Aircraft
   
  Yep - had at least 2 of these. Great flyers as I recall. Remember JeteX motors?
  Geoff F
   



   



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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Sun Jul 25 08:25:38 2021
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 14:25:38 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Tech1] [Announce] Andrew Hunter
In-Reply-To: <18DF412A-9F4D-41AB-B02C-C65ADCAEE676@btinternet.com>
References: <18DF412A-9F4D-41AB-B02C-C65ADCAEE676@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1787759290.502859.1627219538786@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From briantech at gmx.co.uk  Sun Jul 25 09:44:51 2021
From: briantech at gmx.co.uk (Brian Dale)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 15:44:51 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Andrew Hunter
In-Reply-To: <18DF412A-9F4D-41AB-B02C-C65ADCAEE676@btinternet.com>
References: <18DF412A-9F4D-41AB-B02C-C65ADCAEE676@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <129bd334-ddd4-a00f-33fa-232f9a408a4f@gmx.co.uk>

I'm so sorry to hear this Barry.

As you say, he was a kind and humorous person and I imagine a very good
friend.

On 25/07/2021 10:00, Barry Bonner via Tech1 wrote:
> Hi All,
> Some sad news. Famous Gram Op and very affable and humorous person
> Andrew Hunter died on July 12th. ?His music editing on ?Pennies from
> Heaven? was remarkable.
> He was a lover of canalling and he and I along with various other
> sound people had holidayed annually on the BBC Club narrowboat ??Savoy
> Hill? for 41 years! 1974 -2015.
> We?d also been to Little Cayman, Anegada, and Bermuda and spent quite
> a few years on an annual trip to Ullapool on the west coast of Scotland.
>
> A sad loss.
>
> Barry.
>
>
>
>

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From martindilly20 at gmail.com  Sun Jul 25 16:31:11 2021
From: martindilly20 at gmail.com (Martin Dilly)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 22:31:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Jetex motors
In-Reply-To: <5417E8A2-F582-46CC-863A-ED4E1D04B9F1@gmail.com>
References: <60fc02c4.1c69fb81.f7c5a.1a95@mx.google.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981D7722CF4D54764AAD0D4A7E69@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<60fc7158.1c69fb81.40c2c.778d@mx.google.com>
	<7C4332C8-D102-4CE2-8B5A-102C1E7BBD2D@gmail.com>
	<60fd3cee.1c69fb81.c0c2d.c44f@mx.google.com>
	<5417E8A2-F582-46CC-863A-ED4E1D04B9F1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9335e850-3a5d-fc37-a4f9-4733286bc19b@gmail.com>

Gliders have changed a bit since Geoff's KK Chief, which was to the 
FAI's A2 (now known as F1A) World Championships spec. Today's gliders, 
same weight and wing area, with carbon and Kevlar structures and 
vacuum-bagged carbon D-box wings, are pulling _45G _on launch at the top 
of a 50 metre towline (usually made of Spectra) and gain a further 60 
metres after release via a quarter bunt into the glide. Still air times 
of 5-6 minutes are common.

The NFBC made a rather good short at the 1971 World Champs (I was flying 
there) called 180 Is Max; worth Googling that, but performances have 
vastly improved since then.

It was actually? an E_D_ Bee; ED stood for Electronic Developments and 
they had a plant at Kingston and produced some early radio control 
equipment, but mainly engines.

Martin

On 25/07/2021 13:23, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 wrote:
> Like you Pat, I built a Jetex powered Keil Kraft Hunter with augmenter 
> tube, and also a Douglas Skyrocket. I eventually went on to A2 
> gliders. I lived way out in the Shropshire countryside, so losing them 
> wasn?t too much of a problem, but I still fitted them with a 
> dethermaliser device. I spent one summer holiday bukliding a Keil 
> Kraft 6ft wingspan Chieftain glider. Took it out to a field to 
> adjacent to our house to trim it out and get it up for a first flight. 
> The loca lfarmer, a man of evil disposition, came out with his 12 bore 
> and shot i tdown! It disappeared in a big cloud of tssue and balsa 
> shreds and all I had lef was a couple ?f wingtips. He nearly bust a 
> gut laughing.I had my revenge later, but that?s another story. One of 
> my bes tflyers was another 6ft span aircraft, a Veron Cardinal I 
> think. This was poweredby an EG Bee single cylinder motor and reached 
> great heights. The dethermaliser failed on it?s last flight, and I 
> really did lose it as it headed off into the wild blue yonder never to 
> be found again.
> Geoff F
>
>> On 25 Jul 2021, at 11:29, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net 
>> <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Certainly ? I built the Jetex Spaceship, and a Hawker Hunter from 
>> kits. The latter had an ?augmenter? tube, sort of an exhaust pipe 
>> running internally down the fuselage.
>> Then there was the helicopter, which had two Jetex motors, one on 
>> either end of the rotor.
>> Happy times!
>> Pat
>> Sent fromMail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>for 
>> Windows 10
>> *From:*Geoff Fletcher <mailto:geoffletch at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:*24 July 2021 23:31
>> *To:*patheigham <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net>
>> *Cc:*Nick Ware <mailto:waresound at msn.com>;tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
>> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Subject:*Re: [Tech1] Electric Aircraft
>> Yep - had at least 2 of these. Great flyers as I recall.Remember 
>> JeteX motors?
>> Geoff F
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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From geoffletch at gmail.com  Sun Jul 25 16:36:55 2021
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 22:36:55 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Jetex motors
In-Reply-To: <9335e850-3a5d-fc37-a4f9-4733286bc19b@gmail.com>
References: <60fc02c4.1c69fb81.f7c5a.1a95@mx.google.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981D7722CF4D54764AAD0D4A7E69@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<60fc7158.1c69fb81.40c2c.778d@mx.google.com>
	<7C4332C8-D102-4CE2-8B5A-102C1E7BBD2D@gmail.com>
	<60fd3cee.1c69fb81.c0c2d.c44f@mx.google.com>
	<5417E8A2-F582-46CC-863A-ED4E1D04B9F1@gmail.com>
	<9335e850-3a5d-fc37-a4f9-4733286bc19b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB-3-mJdbwJXFSq5W=ZdOPPp3SCW849=NB-ig_fWoCes_A@mail.gmail.com>

Quite right Martin  - ED Bee - slip
of the old digit! I found the plans for the Chief in an old box of papers a
little while ago. Looks very old hat now.
Geoff F

On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 at 22:31, Martin Dilly via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Gliders have changed a bit since Geoff's KK Chief, which was to the FAI's
> A2 (now known as F1A) World Championships spec. Today's gliders, same
> weight and wing area, with carbon and Kevlar structures and vacuum-bagged
> carbon D-box wings, are pulling *45G *on launch at the top of a 50 metre
> towline (usually made of Spectra) and gain a further 60 metres after
> release via a quarter bunt into the glide. Still air times of 5-6 minutes
> are common.
>
> The NFBC made a rather good short at the 1971 World Champs (I was flying
> there) called 180 Is Max; worth Googling that, but performances have vastly
> improved since then.
>
> It was actually  an E*D* Bee; ED stood for Electronic Developments and
> they had a plant at Kingston and produced some early radio control
> equipment, but mainly engines.
>
> Martin
> On 25/07/2021 13:23, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Like you Pat, I built a Jetex powered Keil Kraft Hunter with augmenter
> tube, and also a Douglas Skyrocket. I eventually went on to A2 gliders. I
> lived way out in the Shropshire countryside, so losing them wasn?t too much
> of a problem, but I still fitted them with a dethermaliser device. I spent
> one summer holiday bukliding a Keil Kraft 6ft wingspan Chieftain glider.
> Took it out to a field to adjacent to our house to trim it out and get it
> up for a first flight. The loca lfarmer, a man of evil disposition, came
> out with his 12 bore and shot i tdown! It disappeared in a big cloud of
> tssue and balsa shreds and all I had lef was a couple  f wingtips. He
> nearly bust a gut laughing.I had my revenge later, but that?s another
> story. One of my bes tflyers was another 6ft span aircraft, a Veron
> Cardinal I think. This was poweredby an EG Bee single cylinder motor and
> reached great heights. The dethermaliser failed on it?s last flight, and I
> really did lose it as it headed off into the wild blue yonder never to be
> found again.
> Geoff F
>
> On 25 Jul 2021, at 11:29, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>
> Certainly ? I built the Jetex Spaceship, and a Hawker Hunter from kits.
> The latter had an ?augmenter? tube, sort of an exhaust pipe running
> internally down the fuselage.
> Then there was the helicopter, which had two Jetex motors, one on either
> end of the rotor.
> Happy times!
> Pat
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *Geoff Fletcher <geoffletch at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *24 July 2021 23:31
> *To: *patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>
> *Cc: *Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Electric Aircraft
>
> Yep - had at least 2 of these. Great flyers as I recall. Remember JeteX
> motors?
> Geoff F
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Jul 26 04:14:54 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 10:14:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Jetex motors
In-Reply-To: <CAB99AB-3-mJdbwJXFSq5W=ZdOPPp3SCW849=NB-ig_fWoCes_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <60fc02c4.1c69fb81.f7c5a.1a95@mx.google.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981D7722CF4D54764AAD0D4A7E69@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<60fc7158.1c69fb81.40c2c.778d@mx.google.com>
	<7C4332C8-D102-4CE2-8B5A-102C1E7BBD2D@gmail.com>
	<60fd3cee.1c69fb81.c0c2d.c44f@mx.google.com>
	<5417E8A2-F582-46CC-863A-ED4E1D04B9F1@gmail.com>
	<9335e850-3a5d-fc37-a4f9-4733286bc19b@gmail.com>
	<CAB99AB-3-mJdbwJXFSq5W=ZdOPPp3SCW849=NB-ig_fWoCes_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60fe7d0e.1c69fb81.6622.2b8f@mx.google.com>

Martin ? how nice to hear from you!

As a last mention of Keil Kraft kits ? my boarding prep school, which was virtually a prison*, had a couple of drop down craft tables in one of the classrooms, where we were permitted to leave the aircraft kits pinned, while the balsa cement set (O My, in a black tube?) ? the smaller kids were on pain of massive punishment if they so much as touched anything! I also built a puppet theatre, my Mum made the tiny costumes for the ?actors? and the stage was lit by MES torch bulbs. I think the headmaster was in one of his benevolent moods when the school had a visit from a real puppet theatre outfit. I was at home, getting over chickenpox ? he sent his car for me to attend the performance.

*I had heard it said that those felons who had been to boarding school, settled down in prison very quickly. I can believe that!

Geoff, I want to hear your revenge story!
Your farmer chap might have been useful when the drone incident shut down Gatwick, a little while ago.

Regards
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

On 25/07/2021 13:23, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 wrote:
Like you Pat, I built a Jetex powered Keil Kraft Hunter with augmenter tube, The local farmer, a man of evil disposition, came out with his 12 bore and shot it down! I had my revenge later, but that?s another story. 




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From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Mon Jul 26 05:45:51 2021
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (crew13)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 11:45:51 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Soloists at the BBC
Message-ID: <2AD553D3-2658-4513-A565-D8465AAB11EF@vincent68.plus.com>

Watched a 17 year old Jaqueline Du Pre last night. Her Mum was on piano. Started on L2s and a slow track in to J and cello. No visual fireworks or intrusive lighting!

Thats the way to do it!

John V

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Jul 26 07:03:57 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 13:03:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Soloists at the BBC
In-Reply-To: <2AD553D3-2658-4513-A565-D8465AAB11EF@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <2AD553D3-2658-4513-A565-D8465AAB11EF@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <60fea4ad.1c69fb81.badfb.89be@mx.google.com>

Such a shame that she was taken by a debilitating disease so young. Such talent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline_du_Pr%C3%A9

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: crew13 via Tech1
Sent: 26 July 2021 11:46
To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Soloists at the BBC

Watched a 17 year old Jaqueline Du Pre last night. Her Mum was on piano. Started on L2s and a slow track in to J and cello. No visual fireworks or intrusive lighting!

Thats the way to do it!

John V
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



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From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Mon Jul 26 08:22:03 2021
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (crew13)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 14:22:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Andy Hunter
Message-ID: <CDBD2B36-6C0B-4403-AA6F-E89CAB44654D@vincent68.plus.com>

Any pictures so I can place him.

Barrys one of Frank Smith jogged my memory. One of the good guys!

John V



From peter.neill at icloud.com  Tue Jul 27 04:05:21 2021
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 10:05:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Soloists at the BBC
In-Reply-To: <2AD553D3-2658-4513-A565-D8465AAB11EF@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <2AD553D3-2658-4513-A565-D8465AAB11EF@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <74219B06-B92D-4132-B4FF-DB48A2290C18@icloud.com>

Great programme - tv as it should be done.

And though I know Dudley?s piece by heart it still makes me laugh each time I hear it!


Peter Neill






> On 26 Jul 2021, at 11:45, crew13 via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Watched a 17 year old Jaqueline Du Pre last night. Her Mum was on piano. Started on L2s and a slow track in to J and cello. No visual fireworks or intrusive lighting!
> 
> Thats the way to do it!
> 
> John V
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 27 05:16:06 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 11:16:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Soloists at the BBC
In-Reply-To: <2AD553D3-2658-4513-A565-D8465AAB11EF@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <2AD553D3-2658-4513-A565-D8465AAB11EF@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <e9731736-4811-367d-c603-d8c28efd1b1a@gmail.com>

Chris Glass will remember Paddy Foy getting us to Heron track around a 
piano whilst the pianist played seven minutes of Mozart.?? No stopping, 
and hitting marks at musical intervals. An interesting experience -? 
very simple visually, but not for us.

B



On 26/07/2021 11:45, crew13 via Tech1 wrote:
> Watched a 17 year old Jaqueline Du Pre last night. Her Mum was on piano. Started on L2s and a slow track in to J and cello. No visual fireworks or intrusive lighting!
>
> Thats the way to do it!
>
> John V

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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Tue Jul 27 06:21:59 2021
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 12:21:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Vets Bills
Message-ID: <B34044D8-5DC5-43AA-B282-F2D789C1000A@btinternet.com>

Anyone else concerned how vets bills have risen in the few last years?

The main practice we used was family concern who had always previously provided us with a good service but they?ve recently sold out to a large company buying up small local vet practices and now prices seem to have doubled - we were not aware of this stealth takeover as the practice had retained its existing name.  (& still does)

Following the practice selling up and making a serious of errors in failing to properly diagnose and treat one of our cats, we are no longer happy with their prices and service (or lack of) so have taken our business elsewhere but we?re not sure how soon it might be before this other new practice may get swallowed up by another one of these ruthless cash-hungry giants.

It?s looking like a national scandal for pet owners.  Watch out - there?s now a very, very greedy Vet about!  ???  

Steve





From jccglass at gmail.com  Tue Jul 27 08:20:06 2021
From: jccglass at gmail.com (Chris on gmail)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 14:20:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Soloists at the BBC
References: <2AD553D3-2658-4513-A565-D8465AAB11EF@vincent68.plus.com>
	<e9731736-4811-367d-c603-d8c28efd1b1a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A02F4A6C730941298F11DB1676A9248A@dell9100>

Re Sow tracks
I remember having to do a very slow track in lms to mcu
on  religeous prog "thought for the day?" (midnight? studio D)
on a motorised vintern
IMPOSSIBLE you say 
got off and rotated  the back wheel by  hand
TRy that on a heron!

chris


From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Jul 27 08:23:25 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 14:23:25 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Soloists at the BBC
In-Reply-To: <A02F4A6C730941298F11DB1676A9248A@dell9100>
References: <2AD553D3-2658-4513-A565-D8465AAB11EF@vincent68.plus.com>
	<e9731736-4811-367d-c603-d8c28efd1b1a@gmail.com>
	<A02F4A6C730941298F11DB1676A9248A@dell9100>
Message-ID: <B8C834EF-F780-40B4-83CC-A83160C4B243@icloud.com>

I can remember physically pushing the motorised in the TVT to get a slow enough track. Cameraman was Julian Clapham I think, possibly on a John Denver show.

? 
Graeme Wall


> On 27 Jul 2021, at 14:20, Chris on gmail via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Re Sow tracks
> I remember having to do a very slow track in lms to mcu
> on  religeous prog "thought for the day?" (midnight? studio D)
> on a motorised vintern
> IMPOSSIBLE you say got off and rotated  the back wheel by  hand
> TRy that on a heron!
> 
> chris
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Tue Jul 27 12:58:45 2021
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 18:58:45 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] BBC COVERAGE OF OLYMPICS AND...
Message-ID: <87D84AB1-662A-4913-9C30-CD1ECB47D250@btinternet.com>



This came from the VLV  BBC in a straightjacket!

https://www.vlv.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/VLV-Briefing-note-BBC-Public-Funding-2010-2021-the-Challenge-Ahead-July-2021-FINAL.pdf <https://www.vlv.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/VLV-Briefing-note-BBC-Public-Funding-2010-2021-the-Challenge-Ahead-July-2021-FINAL.pdf>

Albert

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Jul 28 08:58:04 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 14:58:04 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Olympic coverage
Message-ID: <6101626c.1c69fb81.e4f93.fcd6@mx.google.com>

So, unfortunately it all comes down to money.
It would be good if the coverage was given free to the other countries main broadcaster, but
(Chris Tarrant ? ? we don?t want to give you that!?) since there are commercial channels that see a huge revenue in selling advertisement time.
We know that the studio anchors are in Salford, so why pretend they are in Tokyo with (a moving, at least) inlay beyond the window?
I do remember earlier Olympics coverage where the Red Button carried many different streams of events. Where are they this year? (and I have paid my Over 75?s TV licence!).
One thing I?ve noticed about the Tokyo coverage is that there is never a camera shot showing the judges scoreboard ? or have I missed something.
What is also irritating, is that the positioning of the subtitles block partially obscures the top left running score panel.
Presentation has gone down the pan!

Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10



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From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com  Thu Jul 29 00:07:53 2021
From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 14:07:53 +0900
Subject: [Tech1] Olympic coverage
In-Reply-To: <6101626c.1c69fb81.e4f93.fcd6@mx.google.com>
References: <6101626c.1c69fb81.e4f93.fcd6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E2E85268-3753-4642-801B-01997A17494E@icloud.com>

Sorry about the scoreboard shots Pat but nowadays there?s a whole team of people doing graphics for the scores?..
Even with COVID, NBC?s ?reduced? crew has 1500 people over here in Tokyo.
I believe NBC paid in the region of $1.4 BILLION for the TV rights for the USA, so you?re right that money talks.
This is my 18th (9 summer & 9 winter starting with Sarajevo in 1984) and almost certainly my last Olympics though and looking around at the other crew I?m pretty certain I?m not alone in that. There could be a massive crewing problem once we all hang up our cans!
I?m pretty sure that Eurosport are carrying more events than the BBC if you check it out.
Enjoy

Graham Maunder
Awfully Nice Video

Sent from my iPhone 

> On 28 Jul 2021, at 22:58, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> So, unfortunately it all comes down to money.
> It would be good if the coverage was given free to the other countries main broadcaster, but
> (Chris Tarrant ? ? we don?t want to give you that!?) since there are commercial channels that see a huge revenue in selling advertisement time.
> We know that the studio anchors are in Salford, so why pretend they are in Tokyo with (a moving, at least) inlay beyond the window?
> I do remember earlier Olympics coverage where the Red Button carried many different streams of events. Where are they this year? (and I have paid my Over 75?s TV licence!).
> One thing I?ve noticed about the Tokyo coverage is that there is never a camera shot showing the judges scoreboard ? or have I missed something.
> What is also irritating, is that the positioning of the subtitles block partially obscures the top left running score panel.
> Presentation has gone down the pan!
>  
> Pat
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
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From relong at btinternet.com  Thu Jul 29 03:44:22 2021
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 09:44:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Olympic coverage
In-Reply-To: <E2E85268-3753-4642-801B-01997A17494E@icloud.com>
References: <6101626c.1c69fb81.e4f93.fcd6@mx.google.com>
	<E2E85268-3753-4642-801B-01997A17494E@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <65F09926-C39A-43E3-892A-0ACD054D230F@btinternet.com>

Eurosport HD has more events and sharper pictures, it also has adverts?
The BBCHD Highlights in the evening seem to be assembled on a laptop and look like 16mm with silly fx and white borders.
Diction is absent from some presenters, I am clearly suffering from Olympic Dementia, my wife is similarly possessed by it all.
Roger

> On 29 Jul 2021, at 06:07, Graham Maunder via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Sorry about the scoreboard shots Pat but nowadays there?s a whole team of people doing graphics for the scores?..
> Even with COVID, NBC?s ?reduced? crew has 1500 people over here in Tokyo.
> I believe NBC paid in the region of $1.4 BILLION for the TV rights for the USA, so you?re right that money talks.
> This is my 18th (9 summer & 9 winter starting with Sarajevo in 1984) and almost certainly my last Olympics though and looking around at the other crew I?m pretty certain I?m not alone in that. There could be a massive crewing problem once we all hang up our cans!
> I?m pretty sure that Eurosport are carrying more events than the BBC if you check it out.
> Enjoy
> 
> Graham Maunder
> Awfully Nice Video
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> 
>> On 28 Jul 2021, at 22:58, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> So, unfortunately it all comes down to money.
>> It would be good if the coverage was given free to the other countries main broadcaster, but
>> (Chris Tarrant ? ? we don?t want to give you that!?) since there are commercial channels that see a huge revenue in selling advertisement time.
>> We know that the studio anchors are in Salford, so why pretend they are in Tokyo with (a moving, at least) inlay beyond the window?
>> I do remember earlier Olympics coverage where the Red Button carried many different streams of events. Where are they this year? (and I have paid my Over 75?s TV licence!).
>> One thing I?ve noticed about the Tokyo coverage is that there is never a camera shot showing the judges scoreboard ? or have I missed something.
>> What is also irritating, is that the positioning of the subtitles block partially obscures the top left running score panel.
>> Presentation has gone down the pan!
>>  
>> Pat
>>  
>>  
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>	
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
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>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Fri Jul 30 10:19:32 2021
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:19:32 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
Message-ID: <98C27D65-154E-4026-9329-89FA27ED4575@btinternet.com>

?
?According to the latest news, the RNLI are ?overwhelmed? by a huge amount of support:-

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58009646





> On 22 Jul 2021, at 19:27, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
> ?
> I can recommend a hotel in Antigua which has a beach on which you do not have to wear trunks!
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Steve Edwards via Tech1
> Sent: 22 July 2021 19:13
> To: David Plaice
> Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI
>  
>  
> Steve
> PS Nobody has yet responded to my previous request of lending me a tenner - I need a new pair of trunks !
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Fri Jul 30 10:53:12 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:53:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <98C27D65-154E-4026-9329-89FA27ED4575@btinternet.com>
References: <98C27D65-154E-4026-9329-89FA27ED4575@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <23b526f4-7e94-cd83-dacc-eaa6eb01a6df@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Indeed.

A very firm poke in the eye for the Farage, who so richly deserved it 
(and quite a lot more...).

Chris Woolf


On 30/07/2021 16:19, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
> ?
> ?According to the latest news, the RNLI are ?overwhelmed? by a huge 
> amount of support:-
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58009646 
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58009646>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 22 Jul 2021, at 19:27, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> I can recommend a hotel in Antigua which has a beach on which you do 
>> not have to wear trunks!
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
>> Windows 10
>>
>> *From: *Steve Edwards via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Sent: *22 July 2021 19:13
>> *To: *David Plaice <mailto:david.plaice at googlemail.com>
>> *Cc: *Tech-Ops-chit-chat <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] RNLI
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> PS Nobody has yet responded to my previous request of lending me a 
>> tenner - I need a new pair of trunks !
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>
>>
>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>


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From mibridge at mac.com  Fri Jul 30 16:55:04 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2021 22:55:04 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <23b526f4-7e94-cd83-dacc-eaa6eb01a6df@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <23b526f4-7e94-cd83-dacc-eaa6eb01a6df@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1A54D609-CA17-43DB-91F4-D93875F27DA7@mac.com>

Anyone any clue as to the origin of the name Farage! It doesn?t sound very Anglo-Saxon to me! I prefer to pronounce it like garage, as uttered by we common folk, that is. 

Mike G

> On 30 Jul 2021, at 16:54, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Indeed.
> 
> A very firm poke in the eye for the Farage, who so richly deserved it (and quite a lot more...).
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> 
> On 30/07/2021 16:19, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
>> ?
>> ?According to the latest news, the RNLI are ?overwhelmed? by a huge amount of support:-
>> 
>>  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58009646
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 22 Jul 2021, at 19:27, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> I can recommend a hotel in Antigua which has a beach on which you do not have to wear trunks!
>>> Pat
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>  
>>> From: Steve Edwards via Tech1
>>> Sent: 22 July 2021 19:13
>>> To: David Plaice
>>> Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Steve
>>> PS Nobody has yet responded to my previous request of lending me a tenner - I need a new pair of trunks !
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  	
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From jnottage.jn at googlemail.com  Sat Jul 31 01:13:27 2021
From: jnottage.jn at googlemail.com (John Nottage)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 07:13:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <1A54D609-CA17-43DB-91F4-D93875F27DA7@mac.com>
References: <23b526f4-7e94-cd83-dacc-eaa6eb01a6df@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<1A54D609-CA17-43DB-91F4-D93875F27DA7@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAP-d_-pnAj+-ARwUZ1Eo3mB70r082PaLDQH=ZcYFtynVbxtrZA@mail.gmail.com>

Wot, like "garidge"?

John Nottage

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, 22:55 Mike Giles via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Anyone any clue as to the origin of the name Farage! It doesn?t sound very
> Anglo-Saxon to me! I prefer to pronounce it like garage, as uttered by we
> common folk, that is.
>
> Mike G
>
> On 30 Jul 2021, at 16:54, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> Indeed.
>
> A very firm poke in the eye for the Farage, who so richly deserved it (and
> quite a lot more...).
>
> Chris Woolf
>
>
> On 30/07/2021 16:19, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
>
> ?
> ?According to the latest news, the RNLI are ?overwhelmed? by a huge amount
> of support:-
>
>  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58009646
>
>
>
>
>
> On 22 Jul 2021, at 19:27, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>
> <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> I can recommend a hotel in Antigua which has a beach on which you do not
> have to wear trunks!
>
> Pat
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *22 July 2021 19:13
> *To: *David Plaice <david.plaice at googlemail.com>
> *Cc: *Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] RNLI
>
>
>
>
>
> Steve
>
> PS Nobody has yet responded to my previous request of lending me a tenner
> - I need a new pair of trunks !
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> <#m_-3664788084114510182_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
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> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From mibridge at mac.com  Sat Jul 31 01:37:22 2021
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 07:37:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <CAP-d_-pnAj+-ARwUZ1Eo3mB70r082PaLDQH=ZcYFtynVbxtrZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP-d_-pnAj+-ARwUZ1Eo3mB70r082PaLDQH=ZcYFtynVbxtrZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2F679686-2F43-4422-B440-96F210CA5410@mac.com>

Yep!

Mike G

> On 31 Jul 2021, at 07:14, John Nottage <jnottage.jn at googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Wot, like "garidge"?
> 
> John Nottage
> 
>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, 22:55 Mike Giles via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Anyone any clue as to the origin of the name Farage! It doesn?t sound very Anglo-Saxon to me! I prefer to pronounce it like garage, as uttered by we common folk, that is. 
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>>>> On 30 Jul 2021, at 16:54, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ?
>>> Indeed.
>>> 
>>> A very firm poke in the eye for the Farage, who so richly deserved it (and quite a lot more...).
>>> 
>>> Chris Woolf
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 30/07/2021 16:19, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> ?
>>>> ?According to the latest news, the RNLI are ?overwhelmed? by a huge amount of support:-
>>>> 
>>>>  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58009646
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 22 Jul 2021, at 19:27, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?
>>>>> I can recommend a hotel in Antigua which has a beach on which you do not have to wear trunks!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Pat
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Steve Edwards via Tech1
>>>>> Sent: 22 July 2021 19:13
>>>>> To: David Plaice
>>>>> Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Steve
>>>>> PS Nobody has yet responded to my previous request of lending me a tenner - I need a new pair of trunks !
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  	
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>>>> www.avast.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Sat Jul 31 02:53:35 2021
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (David Denness)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 08:53:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <1A54D609-CA17-43DB-91F4-D93875F27DA7@mac.com>
References: <23b526f4-7e94-cd83-dacc-eaa6eb01a6df@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<1A54D609-CA17-43DB-91F4-D93875F27DA7@mac.com>
Message-ID: <000201d785e1$2ac246f0$8046d4d0$@gmail.com>

>From Wikipedia:

Farage is a surname, believed to be of  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Huguenot> French Huguenot origin

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Mike Giles via Tech1
Sent: 30 July 2021 22:55
To: Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI

 

Anyone any clue as to the origin of the name Farage! It doesn?t sound very Anglo-Saxon to me! I prefer to pronounce it like garage, as uttered by we common folk, that is. 

 

Mike G





On 30 Jul 2021, at 16:54, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

? 

Indeed.

A very firm poke in the eye for the Farage, who so richly deserved it (and quite a lot more...).

Chris Woolf

 

On 30/07/2021 16:19, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:

? 

?According to the latest news, the RNLI are ?overwhelmed? by a huge amount of support:- 

 

  <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58009646> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58009646

 

 

 

 





On 22 Jul 2021, at 19:27, patheigham  <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net> <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:

? 

I can recommend a hotel in Antigua which has a beach on which you do not have to wear trunks!

Pat

 

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10

 

From: Steve Edwards via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Sent: 22 July 2021 19:13
To: David Plaice <mailto:david.plaice at googlemail.com> 
Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI

 

 

Steve

PS Nobody has yet responded to my previous request of lending me a tenner - I need a new pair of trunks !

 

 

 






 

 

  _____  


 <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>  









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From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Sat Jul 31 04:14:48 2021
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 10:14:48 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
Message-ID: <BFF96571-38FC-4326-B9D2-12B950F85143@btinternet.com>

I?m thinking of changing my hi-fi cables. I have a pretty good system. Reviews say the Audioquest Rocket 11 or the QED reference XT 401i.
I?m thinking as QED might be best
Albert



From waresound at msn.com  Sat Jul 31 04:52:02 2021
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 09:52:02 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
In-Reply-To: <BFF96571-38FC-4326-B9D2-12B950F85143@btinternet.com>
References: <BFF96571-38FC-4326-B9D2-12B950F85143@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <PAXP191MB1981DB44CE86C1B50D31D897A7ED9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Well, the What Hi-Fi review of the Audioquest cables says ?clean, precise and fluid sound?, and ?guitar strings are pulled taut, leading edges are wonderfully crisp and clean, and the precise timing propels the song forward with a driving momentum?.
So if that?s what you?re after, by all means spend silly money.
For folk of a certain age, I?d suggest there will be no improvement, so long as your present cables are of reasonable thickness.
Better would be to donate the dosh to the RNLI, which could return a far better feel-good factor!
Cheers,
Nick. 

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 31 Jul 2021, at 10:15, Albert Barber via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I?m thinking of changing my hi-fi cables. I have a pretty good system. Reviews say the Audioquest Rocket 11 or the QED reference XT 401i.
> I?m thinking as QED might be best
> Albert
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 31 05:04:38 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 11:04:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981DB44CE86C1B50D31D897A7ED9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <BFF96571-38FC-4326-B9D2-12B950F85143@btinternet.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981DB44CE86C1B50D31D897A7ED9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyEDYh4GaN22fu3u+K_4OxuZi6jAma8M+ySu=NF_NiS5OA@mail.gmail.com>

This has introduced me to "cable burn in"

It says "

   -  It neutralises charges that build up around the cables and the
   insulation
   - - It provides a very wide band and deep conditioning into the
   conductor core, which produces changes in the way signals pass through the
   metal.
   - - It ultrasonically conditions the surface of the conductors."


Im sure that when I used to buy that HiFi magazine in the 1960s we didn't
do that

B

On Sat, 31 Jul 2021, 10:52 Nick Ware via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Well, the What Hi-Fi review of the Audioquest cables says ?clean, precise
> and fluid sound?, and ?guitar strings are pulled taut, leading edges are
> wonderfully crisp and clean, and the precise timing propels the song
> forward with a driving momentum?.
> So if that?s what you?re after, by all means spend silly money.
> For folk of a certain age, I?d suggest there will be no improvement, so
> long as your present cables are of reasonable thickness.
> Better would be to donate the dosh to the RNLI, which could return a far
> better feel-good factor!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
> > On 31 Jul 2021, at 10:15, Albert Barber via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?I?m thinking of changing my hi-fi cables. I have a pretty good system.
> Reviews say the Audioquest Rocket 11 or the QED reference XT 401i.
> > I?m thinking as QED might be best
> > Albert
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tech1 mailing list
> > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From jccglass at gmail.com  Sat Jul 31 05:15:18 2021
From: jccglass at gmail.com (Chris on gmail)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 11:15:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
References: <BFF96571-38FC-4326-B9D2-12B950F85143@btinternet.com><PAXP191MB1981DB44CE86C1B50D31D897A7ED9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<CAA7MLyEDYh4GaN22fu3u+K_4OxuZi6jAma8M+ySu=NF_NiS5OA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ABB795791F1D4D948C52D2A2BD83B96D@dell9100>

Can any one name me a tv/recording studio using these bull shit cables

bet the cable inside your loud speaker isnt

Chris Glass

sticking with my 1960s main 7029 house ring main for bass and the bell wirre 
from woolworths for the tweeter
Grin 



From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Sat Jul 31 05:17:03 2021
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 11:17:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
In-Reply-To: <CAA7MLyEDYh4GaN22fu3u+K_4OxuZi6jAma8M+ySu=NF_NiS5OA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <rcnip5rd53so43h8salj9apm.1627726623570@pgtmedia.co.uk>

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jul 31 05:21:17 2021
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 11:21:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981DB44CE86C1B50D31D897A7ED9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <BFF96571-38FC-4326-B9D2-12B950F85143@btinternet.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981DB44CE86C1B50D31D897A7ED9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <6105241d.1c69fb81.b7de0.33e7@mx.google.com>

How I agree with Nick. I?ve often felt that the guff expounded on ?super hi-fi? cables is a load of wazz.
I?m reminded of a music mixer who, fed up with a producer keeping on about ?a little more of that, a little less of this?
gave him a group of faders, to play with, which had nothing connected! He subjectively assumed that what he was doing was actually having an effect  - which it wasn?t! (It?s all in the mind! as the Goon Show had it).

>From one end of my sitting room, from Quad amps to BNS speakers (bought off Nick!) I ran 4-core central heating control cable, carrying stereo, which seems to work fine. My regret was that I had not completed the purchase of the flat before the cement floor screed was laid, otherwise I could have had a wide conduit installed for running various cables, audio, video and now HDMI as the TV/Monitor/speakers are at the opposite end to the shelf unit that houses the hi-fi and video equipment.
I frequently mount film shows, off BluRay, at a friends? house, using his hi-fi kit, which are B & O speakers wired with light weight ?bell wire? cabling ? sounds OK to me!

Regards
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: 31 July 2021 10:52
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables

Well, the What Hi-Fi review of the Audioquest cables says ?clean, precise and fluid sound?, and ?guitar strings are pulled taut, leading edges are wonderfully crisp and clean, and the precise timing propels the song forward with a driving momentum?.
So if that?s what you?re after, by all means spend silly money.
For folk of a certain age, I?d suggest there will be no improvement, so long as your present cables are of reasonable thickness.
Better would be to donate the dosh to the RNLI, which could return a far better feel-good factor!
Cheers,
Nick. 

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 31 Jul 2021, at 10:15, Albert Barber via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I?m thinking of changing my hi-fi cables. I have a pretty good system. Reviews say the Audioquest Rocket 11 or the QED reference XT 401i.
> I?m thinking as QED might be best
> Albert



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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Jul 31 05:24:35 2021
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 11:24:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
In-Reply-To: <rcnip5rd53so43h8salj9apm.1627726623570@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <CAA7MLyEDYh4GaN22fu3u+K_4OxuZi6jAma8M+ySu=NF_NiS5OA@mail.gmail.com>
	<rcnip5rd53so43h8salj9apm.1627726623570@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyG2J0GXKeqWcLJ-GsHg4FPatT4R-+vSYAudM95FdaOcpQ@mail.gmail.com>

I love the reviews "This changed my whole life and now women fall at my
feet" .   Replugging the connectors may have helped a lot.

A while back Virgin came here testing their cables. Apparently duff
connections in houses screw up the bandwidth of the system that runs from
the green box. They replaced several parts of ours and ran continuous cable
through the connectors into the house. Done for free in two separate visits.

B

On Sat, 31 Jul 2021, 11:17 Paul Thackray, <paul at pgtmedia.co.uk> wrote:

> I have always believed `special ` cables are emperors new cloths.
> If it's really cheep , it will not be thick enough , otherwise no
> difference.
>
> Paul Thackray
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
> +44 7802 243979 <+447802243979>
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
> *From:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Sent:* 31 July 2021 11:07
> *To:* waresound at msn.com
> *Reply to:* bernie833 at gmail.com
> *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
>
> This has introduced me to "cable burn in"
>
> It says "
>
>    -  It neutralises charges that build up around the cables and the
>    insulation
>    - - It provides a very wide band and deep conditioning into the
>    conductor core, which produces changes in the way signals pass through the
>    metal.
>    - - It ultrasonically conditions the surface of the conductors."
>
>
> Im sure that when I used to buy that HiFi magazine in the 1960s we didn't
> do that
>
> B
>
> On Sat, 31 Jul 2021, 10:52 Nick Ware via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Well, the What Hi-Fi review of the Audioquest cables says ?clean, precise
>> and fluid sound?, and ?guitar strings are pulled taut, leading edges are
>> wonderfully crisp and clean, and the precise timing propels the song
>> forward with a driving momentum?.
>> So if that?s what you?re after, by all means spend silly money.
>> For folk of a certain age, I?d suggest there will be no improvement, so
>> long as your present cables are of reasonable thickness.
>> Better would be to donate the dosh to the RNLI, which could return a far
>> better feel-good factor!
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>>
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>
>> > On 31 Jul 2021, at 10:15, Albert Barber via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > ?I?m thinking of changing my hi-fi cables. I have a pretty good system.
>> Reviews say the Audioquest Rocket 11 or the QED reference XT 401i.
>> > I?m thinking as QED might be best
>> > Albert
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Tech1 mailing list
>> > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Jul 31 05:36:35 2021
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 11:36:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981DB44CE86C1B50D31D897A7ED9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <PAXP191MB1981DB44CE86C1B50D31D897A7ED9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <1BF4BE05-BB26-4BED-953A-6BF341642BBF@me.com>

I?m with Nick on this.  If you are already using decent quality speaker cables which are kept as short as practical, exotic speaker cables are unlikely to make much difference.

Admittedly, unlike gold-plated mains plugs or wondrous digital cables, speaker cables are one of the areas where the type of cable can make a difference, but I?m not convinced about audible differences between good quality cables with thick copper conductors compared to ultra high end cables. Some of the HiFi reviews have more than a hint of Emperor?s new clothes about them.  I?m not aware of any professional studio which uses chateau-bottled cables, most just use properly engineered cables without magical properties.  I would also point out that professional audio journals regularly review and discuss microphones, loudspeakers, outboard gear and many other things, but cables are rarely mentioned.

Bottom line is that it all depends on what you?re listening to in the first place. If you routinely listen to ultra high quality specialist recordings and are playing them on top-end equipment, then fair enough, you might be able to discern things which I can?t, but if you are buying recordings more generally available and listening on a good system, my feeling is that you would get more listening pleasure from buying more recordings to play on your existing setup than by buying super-duper speaker cables.

Alan Taylor

> On 31 Jul 2021, at 10:52, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Well, the What Hi-Fi review of the Audioquest cables says ?clean, precise and fluid sound?, and ?guitar strings are pulled taut, leading edges are wonderfully crisp and clean, and the precise timing propels the song forward with a driving momentum?.
> So if that?s what you?re after, by all means spend silly money.
> For folk of a certain age, I?d suggest there will be no improvement, so long as your present cables are of reasonable thickness.
> Better would be to donate the dosh to the RNLI, which could return a far better feel-good factor!
> Cheers,
> Nick. 
> 
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 31 Jul 2021, at 10:15, Albert Barber via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I?m thinking of changing my hi-fi cables. I have a pretty good system. Reviews say the Audioquest Rocket 11 or the QED reference XT 401i.
>> I?m thinking as QED might be best
>> Albert
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Jul 31 05:39:23 2021
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 11:39:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
In-Reply-To: <PAXP191MB1981DB44CE86C1B50D31D897A7ED9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <BFF96571-38FC-4326-B9D2-12B950F85143@btinternet.com>
	<PAXP191MB1981DB44CE86C1B50D31D897A7ED9@PAXP191MB1981.EURP191.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <790bd3c8-d882-fdca-163a-de6e8d58f564@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Well I'm all for selling cables that work audio magic - Chris Woolf, CEO 
Gullible Industries (un) Ltd;}

[Save your money, guv]



On 31/07/2021 10:52, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> Well, the What Hi-Fi review of the Audioquest cables says ?clean, precise and fluid sound?, and ?guitar strings are pulled taut, leading edges are wonderfully crisp and clean, and the precise timing propels the song forward with a driving momentum?.
> So if that?s what you?re after, by all means spend silly money.
> For folk of a certain age, I?d suggest there will be no improvement, so long as your present cables are of reasonable thickness.
> Better would be to donate the dosh to the RNLI, which could return a far better feel-good factor!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>> On 31 Jul 2021, at 10:15, Albert Barber via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?I?m thinking of changing my hi-fi cables. I have a pretty good system. Reviews say the Audioquest Rocket 11 or the QED reference XT 401i.
>> I?m thinking as QED might be best
>> Albert
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From saranewman at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 31 06:59:12 2021
From: saranewman at hotmail.com (Sara Newman)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 11:59:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <2F679686-2F43-4422-B440-96F210CA5410@mac.com>
References: <CAP-d_-pnAj+-ARwUZ1Eo3mB70r082PaLDQH=ZcYFtynVbxtrZA@mail.gmail.com>,
	<2F679686-2F43-4422-B440-96F210CA5410@mac.com>
Message-ID: <DB9PR08MB7049C24DA368DBB98F37549AD0ED9@DB9PR08MB7049.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Hi , although at the beginning of this thread I took issue with the RNLI about how it was funded I certainly not ok with what has happened since with the vilification of their care for refugees by that hideous person Farage. It also begs the question as to why the coastguard is not more involved or is that too a political decision to hold back meaning that the RNLI who are less equipped having to fill the gap. I am sorry but I despair of our country Sara

Sent from my iPhone

On 31 Jul 2021, at 07:37, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Yep!

Mike G

On 31 Jul 2021, at 07:14, John Nottage <jnottage.jn at googlemail.com> wrote:

?
Wot, like "garidge"?

John Nottage

On Fri, 30 Jul 2021, 22:55 Mike Giles via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
Anyone any clue as to the origin of the name Farage! It doesn?t sound very Anglo-Saxon to me! I prefer to pronounce it like garage, as uttered by we common folk, that is.

Mike G

On 30 Jul 2021, at 16:54, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

?

Indeed.

A very firm poke in the eye for the Farage, who so richly deserved it (and quite a lot more...).

Chris Woolf


On 30/07/2021 16:19, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
?
?According to the latest news, the RNLI are ?overwhelmed? by a huge amount of support:-

 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58009646<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-politics-58009646&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7936f31ae3f34f644be608d953edbaee%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637633102774487215%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=jFQlfGBMQvkSrkORvXce5%2F4ZjhYeYU5G8zROgtOQPSo%3D&reserved=0>





On 22 Jul 2021, at 19:27, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net><mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:

?
I can recommend a hotel in Antigua which has a beach on which you do not have to wear trunks!
Pat

Sent from Mail<https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7936f31ae3f34f644be608d953edbaee%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637633102774487215%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=HSmYxATPAf1TQpfF%2BJ1qVbReLdzqi0zyxCsWvSpGs28%3D&reserved=0> for Windows 10

From: Steve Edwards via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 22 July 2021 19:13
To: David Plaice<mailto:david.plaice at googlemail.com>
Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI




Steve

PS Nobody has yet responded to my previous request of lending me a tenner - I need a new pair of trunks !











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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Sat Jul 31 07:17:59 2021
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 13:17:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
Message-ID: <59878681-8542-4789-B344-364B04861776@btinternet.com>

? On 30 Jul 2021, at 16:54, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Indeed.
>> A very firm poke in the eye for the Farage, who so richly deserved it (and quite a lot more...).
>> 
?
Whether you agree with him or not, I was hoping to avoid focusing on Nigel Farage?s comments, my forwarding of the BBC RNLI news article was to highlight the RNLI have recently reported a significant increase in daily donations and now have even more cash rolling in!

Interestingly the RNLI have been quick off the mark telling us how much support they?re getting and how cash has just been flooding in over the last few days but don?t appear to have totted up any similar figues of how much income they will now be losing following the ?small number? (which could mean anything) of supporters they refer to who had been in contact to withdraw their backing because of recent criticism regarding the ?rescue? of migrants: Instead, the BBC news article mainly focuses on the increase in donations following a recently released publicity rescue video following the controversy and also refers to Farage?s comments that the RNLI is being used as a ?Taxi service for illegal trafficking gangs?

 I doubt whether anyone would have any real evidence to prove whether Farage may actually be responsible for the amount of extra cash now rolling in - although I respect others may or may not share his views regarding the RNLI?s role in the rescue of migrants. 

I do wonder how many of the generous people who donate realise (or really care?) just where and how their money will be spent - I doubt many would be aware (as most of us know) the Chief Exec takes a ?160k whack out of the RNLI ?life saving? kitty although it now, on the face of it, looks like there?s going to be plenty more where that came from!


Steve



> On 31 Jul 2021, at 08:54, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?
> From Wikipedia:
> Farage is a surname, believed to be of French Huguenot origin
>  
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Mike Giles via Tech1
> Sent: 30 July 2021 22:55
> To: Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI
>  
> Anyone any clue as to the origin of the name Farage! It doesn?t sound very Anglo-Saxon to me! I prefer to pronounce it like garage, as uttered by we common folk, that is. 
>  
> Mike G
> 
> 
> On 30 Jul 2021, at 16:54, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Indeed.
> 
> A very firm poke in the eye for the Farage, who so richly deserved it (and quite a lot more...).
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
>  
> 
> On 30/07/2021 16:19, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
> ?
> ?According to the latest news, the RNLI are ?overwhelmed? by a huge amount of support:-
>  
>  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58009646
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> On 22 Jul 2021, at 19:27, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I can recommend a hotel in Antigua which has a beach on which you do not have to wear trunks!
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Steve Edwards via Tech1
> Sent: 22 July 2021 19:13
> To: David Plaice
> Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI
>  
>  
> Steve
> PS Nobody has yet responded to my previous request of lending me a tenner - I need a new pair of trunks !
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
> 
> 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sat Jul 31 08:50:47 2021
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 14:50:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <59878681-8542-4789-B344-364B04861776@btinternet.com>
References: <59878681-8542-4789-B344-364B04861776@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <D49AD23E-172A-4F14-8ACD-2622CBCF16F7@icloud.com>

As others have pointed out, ?160k for a chief exec is hardly excesssive. 

? 
Graeme Wall


> On 31 Jul 2021, at 13:17, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? On 30 Jul 2021, at 16:54, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Indeed.
>>> A very firm poke in the eye for the Farage, who so richly deserved it (and quite a lot more...).
>>> 
>>> 
> ?
> Whether you agree with him or not, I was hoping to avoid focusing on Nigel Farage?s comments, my forwarding of the BBC RNLI news article was to highlight the RNLI have recently reported a significant increase in daily donations and now have even more cash rolling in!
> 
> Interestingly the RNLI have been quick off the mark telling us how much support they?re getting and how cash has just been flooding in over the last few days but don?t appear to have totted up any similar figues of how much income they will now be losing following the ?small number? (which could mean anything) of supporters they refer to who had been in contact to withdraw their backing because of recent criticism regarding the ?rescue? of migrants: Instead, the BBC news article mainly focuses on the increase in donations following a recently released publicity rescue video following the controversy and also refers to Farage?s comments that the RNLI is being used as a ?Taxi service for illegal trafficking gangs?
> 
>  I doubt whether anyone would have any real evidence to prove whether Farage may actually be responsible for the amount of extra cash now rolling in - although I respect others may or may not share his views regarding the RNLI?s role in the rescue of migrants. 
> 
> I do wonder how many of the generous people who donate realise (or really care?) just where and how their money will be spent - I doubt many would be aware (as most of us know) the Chief Exec takes a ?160k whack out of the RNLI ?life saving? kitty although it now, on the face of it, looks like there?s going to be plenty more where that came from!
> 
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
>> On 31 Jul 2021, at 08:54, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> From Wikipedia:
>> Farage is a surname, believed to be of French Huguenot origin
>>  
>> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Mike Giles via Tech1
>> Sent: 30 July 2021 22:55
>> To: Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI
>>  
>> Anyone any clue as to the origin of the name Farage! It doesn?t sound very Anglo-Saxon to me! I prefer to pronounce it like garage, as uttered by we common folk, that is. 
>>  
>> Mike G
>> 
>> 
>> On 30 Jul 2021, at 16:54, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ? 
>> Indeed.
>> 
>> A very firm poke in the eye for the Farage, who so richly deserved it (and quite a lot more...).
>> 
>> Chris Woolf
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On 30/07/2021 16:19, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
>> ? 
>> ?According to the latest news, the RNLI are ?overwhelmed? by a huge amount of support:- 
>>  
>>  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58009646
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> On 22 Jul 2021, at 19:27, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>> 
>> ? 
>> I can recommend a hotel in Antigua which has a beach on which you do not have to wear trunks!
>> Pat
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: Steve Edwards via Tech1
>> Sent: 22 July 2021 19:13
>> To: David Plaice
>> Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI
>>  
>>  
>> Steve
>> PS Nobody has yet responded to my previous request of lending me a tenner - I need a new pair of trunks !
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From colin at colinhassell.com  Sat Jul 31 11:31:27 2021
From: colin at colinhassell.com (Colin Hassell)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 17:31:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
In-Reply-To: <CAA7MLyEDYh4GaN22fu3u+K_4OxuZi6jAma8M+ySu=NF_NiS5OA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA7MLyEDYh4GaN22fu3u+K_4OxuZi6jAma8M+ySu=NF_NiS5OA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <184999B0-6D80-4712-A4D3-B5500917019E@colinhassell.com>

If you?ve money to burn, take a look here:

https://www.russandrews.com/


Colin Hassell
colin at colinhassell.com
St Albans
Herts
UK
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From alawrance1 at me.com  Sat Jul 31 11:42:07 2021
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 17:42:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
In-Reply-To: <184999B0-6D80-4712-A4D3-B5500917019E@colinhassell.com>
References: <184999B0-6D80-4712-A4D3-B5500917019E@colinhassell.com>
Message-ID: <19A92D8F-40E1-4DF4-B083-172D725287A4@me.com>

I recently had to replace the main drive unit in one of my KEF 104s, and bought a 'drop in' replacement from Wilmslow Audio, which works very well. It's a little more sensitive, so I will replace the other.

They sell Black Rhodium cables made up at ?2000=00 per 3m pair, so ?4k for normal stereo, I think.

Inside the KEF, I've seen thicker bell wire.

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 31 Jul 2021, at 17:32, Colin Hassell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?If you?ve money to burn, take a look here:
> 
> https://www.russandrews.com/
> 
> 
> Colin Hassell
> colin at colinhassell.com
> St Albans
> Herts
> UK
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alawrance1 at me.com  Sat Jul 31 12:06:57 2021
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 18:06:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
In-Reply-To: <184999B0-6D80-4712-A4D3-B5500917019E@colinhassell.com>
References: <184999B0-6D80-4712-A4D3-B5500917019E@colinhassell.com>
Message-ID: <BB41948E-50FE-4E44-8770-467550B785D9@me.com>

I should've added that for a long time now, hi-fi reviews have gone away from proper technical comparisons and gone to exaggerated value judgements - better transient clarity, more middle-top definition,  extra bass involvement etc etc.  I suspect this is simply because anything half way decent these days is flat from DC to light anyway, and with very little noise.

And the lack of reputable technical education doesn't help.

On that subject, there's a piece in this month's Mac Format mag about a soon to be released music streamer from Linn (was Linn Sondek?).  It is the Klimax DSM and costs
'from  ?30.000=00'.

Maybe it's me..... 

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 31 Jul 2021, at 17:32, Colin Hassell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?If you?ve money to burn, take a look here:
> 
> https://www.russandrews.com/
> 
> 
> Colin Hassell
> colin at colinhassell.com
> St Albans
> Herts
> UK
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Sat Jul 31 13:15:33 2021
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (Steve Edwards)
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 19:15:33 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] RNLI
In-Reply-To: <D49AD23E-172A-4F14-8ACD-2622CBCF16F7@icloud.com>
References: <D49AD23E-172A-4F14-8ACD-2622CBCF16F7@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <6118F7FD-28C2-4BB5-ABFF-0AC118D70582@btinternet.com>

?I respect your view but the question of salary is a matter of opinion and a separate argument:

?If you?re comparing the Chief Exec?s 160k ?salary to a reported salary of over ?2 million PA Chris Evans was paid for hosting his BBC Radio 2 breakfast show and annoying me and countless others for years on our regular drive to work, now Zoe Ball - not quite as bad at ?1.36 million, then personally I would be happy to agree with you that ?160k is not excessive. Many might otherwise feel that ?160k PA is a significant amount of money  - especially when they might be unpaid charity volunteers and risk their lives or give their own time for free. There are many people who work tirelessly in various occupations, charities and organisations for a very basic remuneration, if anything at all. 

Not wishing to repeat myself again but as I?ve said previously the initial point I was making is the RNLI is a ?charity? that has plenty of other people?s money rolling in yet those who risk their lives at sea get paid nout. 

What isn?t clear is if the Chief Exec donates anything significant (I don?t mean a few coppers) to the RNLI out of his own pocket ?

Steve



> On 31 Jul 2021, at 14:50, Graeme Wall <graeme.wall at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> ?As others have pointed out, ?160k for a chief exec is hardly excesssive. 
> 
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
>> On 31 Jul 2021, at 13:17, Steve Edwards via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ? On 30 Jul 2021, at 16:54, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Indeed.
>>>> A very firm poke in the eye for the Farage, who so richly deserved it (and quite a lot more...).
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> ?
>> Whether you agree with him or not, I was hoping to avoid focusing on Nigel Farage?s comments, my forwarding of the BBC RNLI news article was to highlight the RNLI have recently reported a significant increase in daily donations and now have even more cash rolling in!
>> 
>> Interestingly the RNLI have been quick off the mark telling us how much support they?re getting and how cash has just been flooding in over the last few days but don?t appear to have totted up any similar figues of how much income they will now be losing following the ?small number? (which could mean anything) of supporters they refer to who had been in contact to withdraw their backing because of recent criticism regarding the ?rescue? of migrants: Instead, the BBC news article mainly focuses on the increase in donations following a recently released publicity rescue video following the controversy and also refers to Farage?s comments that the RNLI is being used as a ?Taxi service for illegal trafficking gangs?
>> 
>> I doubt whether anyone would have any real evidence to prove whether Farage may actually be responsible for the amount of extra cash now rolling in - although I respect others may or may not share his views regarding the RNLI?s role in the rescue of migrants. 
>> 
>> I do wonder how many of the generous people who donate realise (or really care?) just where and how their money will be spent - I doubt many would be aware (as most of us know) the Chief Exec takes a ?160k whack out of the RNLI ?life saving? kitty although it now, on the face of it, looks like there?s going to be plenty more where that came from!
>> 
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 31 Jul 2021, at 08:54, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> From Wikipedia:
>>> Farage is a surname, believed to be of French Huguenot origin
>>> 
>>> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Mike Giles via Tech1
>>> Sent: 30 July 2021 22:55
>>> To: Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI
>>> 
>>> Anyone any clue as to the origin of the name Farage! It doesn?t sound very Anglo-Saxon to me! I prefer to pronounce it like garage, as uttered by we common folk, that is. 
>>> 
>>> Mike G
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 30 Jul 2021, at 16:54, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ? 
>>> Indeed.
>>> 
>>> A very firm poke in the eye for the Farage, who so richly deserved it (and quite a lot more...).
>>> 
>>> Chris Woolf
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 30/07/2021 16:19, Steve Edwards via Tech1 wrote:
>>> ? 
>>> ?According to the latest news, the RNLI are ?overwhelmed? by a huge amount of support:- 
>>> 
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58009646
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 22 Jul 2021, at 19:27, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ? 
>>> I can recommend a hotel in Antigua which has a beach on which you do not have to wear trunks!
>>> Pat
>>> 
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>> 
>>> From: Steve Edwards via Tech1
>>> Sent: 22 July 2021 19:13
>>> To: David Plaice
>>> Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] RNLI
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> PS Nobody has yet responded to my previous request of lending me a tenner - I need a new pair of trunks !
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 



From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com  Sat Jul 31 18:34:19 2021
From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 08:34:19 +0900
Subject: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
In-Reply-To: <BB41948E-50FE-4E44-8770-467550B785D9@me.com>
References: <BB41948E-50FE-4E44-8770-467550B785D9@me.com>
Message-ID: <0B890FA5-4A95-43DC-A91C-241C9BD77A70@icloud.com>

I can safely say I would never pay ?30k for a Klimax?.

Graham 

Sent from my iPhone 

> On 1 Aug 2021, at 02:07, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I should've added that for a long time now, hi-fi reviews have gone away from proper technical comparisons and gone to exaggerated value judgements - better transient clarity, more middle-top definition,  extra bass involvement etc etc.  I suspect this is simply because anything half way decent these days is flat from DC to light anyway, and with very little noise.
> 
> And the lack of reputable technical education doesn't help.
> 
> On that subject, there's a piece in this month's Mac Format mag about a soon to be released music streamer from Linn (was Linn Sondek?).  It is the Klimax DSM and costs
> 'from  ?30.000=00'.
> 
> Maybe it's me..... 
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 31 Jul 2021, at 17:32, Colin Hassell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?If you?ve money to burn, take a look here:
>> 
>> https://www.russandrews.com/
>> 
>> 
>> Colin Hassell
>> colin at colinhassell.com
>> St Albans
>> Herts
>> UK
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com  Sat Jul 31 18:35:34 2021
From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 08:35:34 +0900
Subject: [Tech1] Hi fi Cables
In-Reply-To: <BB41948E-50FE-4E44-8770-467550B785D9@me.com>
References: <BB41948E-50FE-4E44-8770-467550B785D9@me.com>
Message-ID: <A266977B-C57B-4F6D-AE7B-0935B9B7C574@icloud.com>

I can safely say I would never pay ?30k for a Klimax?.

Graham

Sent from my iPhone 

> On 1 Aug 2021, at 02:07, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I should've added that for a long time now, hi-fi reviews have gone away from proper technical comparisons and gone to exaggerated value judgements - better transient clarity, more middle-top definition,  extra bass involvement etc etc.  I suspect this is simply because anything half way decent these days is flat from DC to light anyway, and with very little noise.
> 
> And the lack of reputable technical education doesn't help.
> 
> On that subject, there's a piece in this month's Mac Format mag about a soon to be released music streamer from Linn (was Linn Sondek?).  It is the Klimax DSM and costs
> 'from  ?30.000=00'.
> 
> Maybe it's me..... 
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 31 Jul 2021, at 17:32, Colin Hassell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?If you?ve money to burn, take a look here:
>> 
>> https://www.russandrews.com/
>> 
>> 
>> Colin Hassell
>> colin at colinhassell.com
>> St Albans
>> Herts
>> UK
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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