From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Nov  1 02:15:23 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 08:15:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Irony
In-Reply-To: <6B83EF2E-8F8F-44B3-BF55-8A5409B7203F@mac.com>
References: <6B83EF2E-8F8F-44B3-BF55-8A5409B7203F@mac.com>
Message-ID: <94BBE283-4607-4170-9420-C2EBB5FD537A@me.com>

As a simple soul, I'm getting confused by the naming conventions being used on electric cars.

Vauxhall are adding an 'e' at the end of the name, so the car in their special offer is the Corsa e.  There's a certain logic to it, but with many car names ending in 'a', it comes across as some sort of Latin plural as in  I'll have one Corsa and my company will buy a fleet of Corsae.

Jaguar have a range of sports SUVs called the E-Pace, which have big petrol engines, while their electric cars are called I-Pace.

Hopefully things will become simpler once manufacturers build dedicated electric cars rather than adapt existing models and then new model names will always be electric and won't need suffixes and prefixes to distinguish them.

Just out of interest, does anybody on the group run an electric or hybrid car? My wife is contemplating getting a plug-in hybrid for her next car.  For day to day running and commuting, it will use electricity from the mains, but for extended runs such as to her family in Germany, the petrol motor will keep the battery charged.  I'm in two minds about this.  It could be seen as the best of both worlds or the worst. Until there is a way of recharging almost as quickly as conventional refuelling, pure electric won't work for us.

Alan Taylor




On 31 Oct 2020, at 31 Oct . 22:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I am amazed at the wording of the current Vauxhall advert offering 48 hours test drive of an all electric car, free of charge - not much chance of pinching the car then!
> 
> Mike G
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From waresound at msn.com  Sun Nov  1 03:36:49 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 09:36:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Drama Channel.
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB08630728D3EDE77780B63310A7130@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Maybe I was assuming the presence of engineers with some sort of caring, technical standards, etc?. I don?t think I?ve ever knowingly watched Drama Channel or Catch-Up TV, but if it?s as bad as you say, that?s probably just as well.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 31 Oct 2020, at 18:19, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Bit of a flaw there Nick. These 'loudness' meters have been around for a
> long time now - and things haven't improved. I'd assume all broadcasters
> have access to them. Problem with any metering is it needs experience to
> interpret what it's telling you.
> 
> The error in channels like the Drama channel isn't a shade of grey. It is
> massive, and can be clearly seen on an old fashioned PPM. With average mod
>> on the progs I'm complaining about being so much lower than normal for a
>> basis 'cops and robbers' type prog. We're not talking about some arty
>> "Play for Today". ;-)
>> My guess is the digitizing is done without any line up checks at all. And
>> by the sound of some of it likely from an archive Beta copy, and possibly
>> using machines past their best, or simply out of alignment.  
>> However, none of that addresses just why they've decided to make things
>> even worse by using some cheap and nasty AGC system.   
>> In article
>> <VE1P189MB0863D782F7D68B5C6A063149A7120 at VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
>> Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> I too, despair at the apparent randomless of audio levels between
>> 

From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Sun Nov  1 04:01:06 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 10:01:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Irony
In-Reply-To: <94BBE283-4607-4170-9420-C2EBB5FD537A@me.com>
References: <6B83EF2E-8F8F-44B3-BF55-8A5409B7203F@mac.com>
	<94BBE283-4607-4170-9420-C2EBB5FD537A@me.com>
Message-ID: <3e06bab1-bb3c-83e7-ccee-1f0aca193099@imixmics.co.uk>

It probably doesn't really count, but I have a "Mild Hybrid": a Golf 
eTSI. You can't charge it from the mains, but the small electric motor 
assists the engine & keeps the fuel consumption way down. While I was 
running the car in, I regularly got over 60mpg on runs of 30 miles or 
so. I'm still getting better petrol consumption than I got with my old 
diesel Golf.

I saw my first VW ID3 electric car in Southwold yesterday. I was hoping 
to get one of those. The 200 mile plus range would have suited me well, 
but there were too many delays. I didn't want to find myself landed with 
an extra 10% on the bill when we fell out of the EU.

One feature of my new car which I have mixed feelings about is the 
reliance on touch screen operation. You can't just grope around blindly 
to find the right button. You have to take your eyes off the road to see 
where you're prodding. (Very grateful for the head-up display). On my 
car, the buttons on the steering wheel are still real. I think the ID3 
has touch operation on those too. How do you touch the one you want 
without taking your eyes off the road? It must be very easy to touch the 
wrong one by mistake whilst reaching for the one you want.

The ID3 would get you to & around Germany with no trouble Alan: there 
must be plenty of suitable fast chargers there now. Check out "Battery 
Life" on YouTube: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTpYzLtOCilhKE42T5uW7Ww, though the 
first video is less encouraging!

John Nottage

On 01/11/2020 08:15, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> As a simple soul, I'm getting confused by the naming conventions being used on electric cars.
> 
> Vauxhall are adding an 'e' at the end of the name, so the car in their special offer is the Corsa e.  There's a certain logic to it, but with many car names ending in 'a', it comes across as some sort of Latin plural as in  I'll have one Corsa and my company will buy a fleet of Corsae.
> 
> Jaguar have a range of sports SUVs called the E-Pace, which have big petrol engines, while their electric cars are called I-Pace.
> 
> Hopefully things will become simpler once manufacturers build dedicated electric cars rather than adapt existing models and then new model names will always be electric and won't need suffixes and prefixes to distinguish them.
> 
> Just out of interest, does anybody on the group run an electric or hybrid car? My wife is contemplating getting a plug-in hybrid for her next car.  For day to day running and commuting, it will use electricity from the mains, but for extended runs such as to her family in Germany, the petrol motor will keep the battery charged.  I'm in two minds about this.  It could be seen as the best of both worlds or the worst. Until there is a way of recharging almost as quickly as conventional refuelling, pure electric won't work for us.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 31 Oct 2020, at 31 Oct . 22:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> I am amazed at the wording of the current Vauxhall advert offering 48 hours test drive of an all electric car, free of charge - not much chance of pinching the car then!
>>
>> Mike G
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 



From robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk  Sun Nov  1 04:47:38 2020
From: robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk (Robert Miles)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 10:47:38 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Electric Cars
Message-ID: <000001d6b03c$6ab87c50$402974f0$@soundsuper.co.uk>

If anyone is contemplating moving to an electric car, can I recommend
subscribing to the Fully Charged Show on YouTube -
https://www.youtube.com/c/fullychargedshow/videos
Entertaining and informative. 
Watch out - the Chinese made EV cars could overtake the established brands
very quickly.

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of John Nottage
via Tech1
Sent: 01 November 2020 10:01
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Irony

It probably doesn't really count, but I have a "Mild Hybrid": a Golf eTSI.
You can't charge it from the mains, but the small electric motor assists the
engine & keeps the fuel consumption way down. While I was running the car
in, I regularly got over 60mpg on runs of 30 miles or so. I'm still getting
better petrol consumption than I got with my old diesel Golf.

I saw my first VW ID3 electric car in Southwold yesterday. I was hoping to
get one of those. The 200 mile plus range would have suited me well, but
there were too many delays. I didn't want to find myself landed with an
extra 10% on the bill when we fell out of the EU.

One feature of my new car which I have mixed feelings about is the reliance
on touch screen operation. You can't just grope around blindly to find the
right button. You have to take your eyes off the road to see where you're
prodding. (Very grateful for the head-up display). On my car, the buttons on
the steering wheel are still real. I think the ID3 has touch operation on
those too. How do you touch the one you want without taking your eyes off
the road? It must be very easy to touch the wrong one by mistake whilst
reaching for the one you want.

The ID3 would get you to & around Germany with no trouble Alan: there must
be plenty of suitable fast chargers there now. Check out "Battery Life" on
YouTube: 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTpYzLtOCilhKE42T5uW7Ww, though the first
video is less encouraging!

John Nottage

On 01/11/2020 08:15, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> As a simple soul, I'm getting confused by the naming conventions being
used on electric cars.
> 
> Vauxhall are adding an 'e' at the end of the name, so the car in their
special offer is the Corsa e.  There's a certain logic to it, but with many
car names ending in 'a', it comes across as some sort of Latin plural as in
I'll have one Corsa and my company will buy a fleet of Corsae.
> 
> Jaguar have a range of sports SUVs called the E-Pace, which have big
petrol engines, while their electric cars are called I-Pace.
> 
> Hopefully things will become simpler once manufacturers build dedicated
electric cars rather than adapt existing models and then new model names
will always be electric and won't need suffixes and prefixes to distinguish
them.
> 
> Just out of interest, does anybody on the group run an electric or hybrid
car? My wife is contemplating getting a plug-in hybrid for her next car.
For day to day running and commuting, it will use electricity from the
mains, but for extended runs such as to her family in Germany, the petrol
motor will keep the battery charged.  I'm in two minds about this.  It could
be seen as the best of both worlds or the worst. Until there is a way of
recharging almost as quickly as conventional refuelling, pure electric won't
work for us.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 31 Oct 2020, at 31 Oct . 22:35, Mike Giles via Tech1
<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> I am amazed at the wording of the current Vauxhall advert offering 48
hours test drive of an all electric car, free of charge - not much chance of
pinching the car then!
>>
>> Mike G
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 


--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Nov  1 04:49:34 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 10:49:34 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Irony
In-Reply-To: <3e06bab1-bb3c-83e7-ccee-1f0aca193099@imixmics.co.uk>
References: <6B83EF2E-8F8F-44B3-BF55-8A5409B7203F@mac.com>
	<94BBE283-4607-4170-9420-C2EBB5FD537A@me.com>
	<3e06bab1-bb3c-83e7-ccee-1f0aca193099@imixmics.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1BFD9431-DAEE-4132-B572-A4497FA3A395@me.com>

At the risk being thought of as upstaging you, I saw an ID4 driving along the road near our village last week. it looked really good.  I assume that it was being driven to the testing track at Gaydon.  We see a lot of interesting cars heading to or from there, often prototypes with 'dazzle' paintwork to disguise the true body shape.

I share your doubts about touch screens, especially if wet fingers or rain is involved, but so long as the touch screen is for lesser controls and the important ones use physical switches, it's probably OK, especially if there is an alternative using voice control.  

Alan Taylor




On 1 Nov 2020, at 1 Nov . 10:01, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> It probably doesn't really count, but I have a "Mild Hybrid": a Golf eTSI. You can't charge it from the mains, but the small electric motor assists the engine & keeps the fuel consumption way down. While I was running the car in, I regularly got over 60mpg on runs of 30 miles or so. I'm still getting better petrol consumption than I got with my old diesel Golf.
> 
> I saw my first VW ID3 electric car in Southwold yesterday. I was hoping to get one of those. The 200 mile plus range would have suited me well, but there were too many delays. I didn't want to find myself landed with an extra 10% on the bill when we fell out of the EU.
> 
> One feature of my new car which I have mixed feelings about is the reliance on touch screen operation. You can't just grope around blindly to find the right button. You have to take your eyes off the road to see where you're prodding. (Very grateful for the head-up display). On my car, the buttons on the steering wheel are still real. I think the ID3 has touch operation on those too. How do you touch the one you want without taking your eyes off the road? It must be very easy to touch the wrong one by mistake whilst reaching for the one you want.
> 
> The ID3 would get you to & around Germany with no trouble Alan: there must be plenty of suitable fast chargers there now. Check out "Battery Life" on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTpYzLtOCilhKE42T5uW7Ww, though the first video is less encouraging!
> 
> John Nottage
> 
> On 01/11/2020 08:15, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> As a simple soul, I'm getting confused by the naming conventions being used on electric cars.
>> Vauxhall are adding an 'e' at the end of the name, so the car in their special offer is the Corsa e.  There's a certain logic to it, but with many car names ending in 'a', it comes across as some sort of Latin plural as in  I'll have one Corsa and my company will buy a fleet of Corsae.
>> Jaguar have a range of sports SUVs called the E-Pace, which have big petrol engines, while their electric cars are called I-Pace.
>> Hopefully things will become simpler once manufacturers build dedicated electric cars rather than adapt existing models and then new model names will always be electric and won't need suffixes and prefixes to distinguish them.
>> Just out of interest, does anybody on the group run an electric or hybrid car? My wife is contemplating getting a plug-in hybrid for her next car.  For day to day running and commuting, it will use electricity from the mains, but for extended runs such as to her family in Germany, the petrol motor will keep the battery charged.  I'm in two minds about this.  It could be seen as the best of both worlds or the worst. Until there is a way of recharging almost as quickly as conventional refuelling, pure electric won't work for us.
>> Alan Taylor
>> On 31 Oct 2020, at 31 Oct . 22:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I am amazed at the wording of the current Vauxhall advert offering 48 hours test drive of an all electric car, free of charge - not much chance of pinching the car then!
>>> 
>>> Mike G
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Nov  1 05:26:20 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 11:26:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Irony
In-Reply-To: <94BBE283-4607-4170-9420-C2EBB5FD537A@me.com>
References: <6B83EF2E-8F8F-44B3-BF55-8A5409B7203F@mac.com>
	<94BBE283-4607-4170-9420-C2EBB5FD537A@me.com>
Message-ID: <50ed6f0a-61a6-d87a-0867-cefd52fa4c6d@ntlworld.com>

A friend just bought a Hyundai Kona, cost around ?35,000.? He seems 
pleased so far. It does around 250 miles on a charge, and given that he 
isn't a long distance driver, that's several weeks worth. Interesting 
under the bonnet, as it looks quite similar to a normal car, even has a 
radiator.? We aren't sure how the heater works, but we think it's 
electric rather than from the coolant, as the range drops a lot when you 
turn it on.

Hyundai contribute towards a 7Kw home charging point, but he's currently 
in conflict with the contractor as they want the cable to run the 
shortest but ugliest route .

B



On 01/11/2020 08:15, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> As a simple soul, I'm getting confused by the naming conventions being used on electric cars.
>
> Vauxhall are adding an 'e' at the end of the name, so the car in their special offer is the Corsa e.  There's a certain logic to it, but with many car names ending in 'a', it comes across as some sort of Latin plural as in  I'll have one Corsa and my company will buy a fleet of Corsae.
>
> Jaguar have a range of sports SUVs called the E-Pace, which have big petrol engines, while their electric cars are called I-Pace.
>
> Hopefully things will become simpler once manufacturers build dedicated electric cars rather than adapt existing models and then new model names will always be electric and won't need suffixes and prefixes to distinguish them.
>
> Just out of interest, does anybody on the group run an electric or hybrid car? My wife is contemplating getting a plug-in hybrid for her next car.  For day to day running and commuting, it will use electricity from the mains, but for extended runs such as to her family in Germany, the petrol motor will keep the battery charged.  I'm in two minds about this.  It could be seen as the best of both worlds or the worst. Until there is a way of recharging almost as quickly as conventional refuelling, pure electric won't work for us.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
>
> On 31 Oct 2020, at 31 Oct . 22:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I am amazed at the wording of the current Vauxhall advert offering 48 hours test drive of an all electric car, free of charge - not much chance of pinching the car then!
>>
>> Mike G
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sun Nov  1 06:08:07 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 12:08:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Irony
In-Reply-To: <50ed6f0a-61a6-d87a-0867-cefd52fa4c6d@ntlworld.com>
References: <6B83EF2E-8F8F-44B3-BF55-8A5409B7203F@mac.com>
	<94BBE283-4607-4170-9420-C2EBB5FD537A@me.com>
	<50ed6f0a-61a6-d87a-0867-cefd52fa4c6d@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <dab36ae4-8dc1-fabb-0629-e0c51f6f30c4@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 01/11/2020 11:26, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
> A friend just bought a Hyundai Kona,....We aren't sure how the heater 
> works, but we think it's electric rather than from the coolant, as the 
> range drops a lot when you turn it on.
>
All the better electric cars (and I think the Kona is amongst them) use 
an air-source heat pump for climate control. Much more efficient than 
plain electric heating, and probably accounts for the "radiator". Will 
also provide cooling, just by running it in reverse.

> Hyundai contribute towards a 7Kw home charging point, but he's 
> currently in conflict with the contractor as they want the cable to 
> run the shortest but ugliest route .

Not surprised there's a conflict. The power loss down a 7kW cable can be 
substantial so a longer route means using much fatter cable. Costs go up 
massively.

Chris Woolf


>
> B
>
>
>
> On 01/11/2020 08:15, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> As a simple soul, I'm getting confused by the naming conventions being used on electric cars.
>>
>> Vauxhall are adding an 'e' at the end of the name, so the car in their special offer is the Corsa e.  There's a certain logic to it, but with many car names ending in 'a', it comes across as some sort of Latin plural as in  I'll have one Corsa and my company will buy a fleet of Corsae.
>>
>> Jaguar have a range of sports SUVs called the E-Pace, which have big petrol engines, while their electric cars are called I-Pace.
>>
>> Hopefully things will become simpler once manufacturers build dedicated electric cars rather than adapt existing models and then new model names will always be electric and won't need suffixes and prefixes to distinguish them.
>>
>> Just out of interest, does anybody on the group run an electric or hybrid car? My wife is contemplating getting a plug-in hybrid for her next car.  For day to day running and commuting, it will use electricity from the mains, but for extended runs such as to her family in Germany, the petrol motor will keep the battery charged.  I'm in two minds about this.  It could be seen as the best of both worlds or the worst. Until there is a way of recharging almost as quickly as conventional refuelling, pure electric won't work for us.
>>
>> Alan Taylor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 31 Oct 2020, at 31 Oct . 22:35, Mike Giles via Tech1<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>  wrote:
>>
>>> I am amazed at the wording of the current Vauxhall advert offering 48 hours test drive of an all electric car, free of charge - not much chance of pinching the car then!
>>>
>>> Mike G
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
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From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Sun Nov  1 07:25:45 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 13:25:45 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
In-Reply-To: <5f9af4a2.1c69fb81.76b1f.1d2b@mx.google.com>
References: <2e6a5054.1058.1757434fdbf.Webtop.86@btinternet.com>
	<5f9af4a2.1c69fb81.76b1f.1d2b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <7330d520.3c4b.17583fc35e6.Webtop.88@btinternet.com>


Hi Pat,
In my experience, most studio Cameramen end up a bit deaf in one ear. 
This comes from wearing one headphone. If we had any sense, of course, 
we'd alternate ears on alternate days. But we never did.
The other problem for Cameramen is bad backs, due to heavy lifting. I 
never had this problem, because I was a goody-two-shoes who always 
obeyed the safety instruction which said - when lifting, always bend 
your knees, not your back. The result, predictably, is that my back's 
fine, but my knees are buggered!
luv, Rog.


------ Original Message ------
From: "patheigham" <pat.heigham at amps.net>
To: "ROGER BUNCE" <rogerbunce at btinternet.com>; "tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" 
<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, 29 Oct, 20 At 16:58
Subject: RE: [Tech1] Americans

Rog,
Sorry to hear about the eyes. Do all ex-cameramen suffer the same, most 
of the sound recordists I know now wear hearing aids! I had two cataract 
ops done and now have better than 20-20 vision.
 From your and Bernie?s replies, I would say that we all seem to have 
followed the careers that we were happy in.
I loved my time at TVC, LG, and TVT and the BBC gave me unrivalled 
training.
But ever since seeing ?South Pacific? in the fleapit cinema in Ryde, I 
wanted to work in films, and on a musical. I?m delighted that I managed 
both.
I enjoyed every programme that I worked on at TVC,  and I?ve said 
before, made some good friends with whom I?m still in touch.

Very best
Pat



Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for 
Windows 10

From: ROGER BUNCE <mailto:rogerbunce at btinternet.com>
Sent: 29 October 2020 11:53
To: patheigham <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net> ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Tech1] Americans

Hi Pat,

Apologies for the delayed reply. My ageing Cameraman's eyesight is now 
so fuzzy, I'm struggling to see the screen. (Fear not, I have an 
appointment with a laser tomorrow.)



            Avast logo     <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sun Nov  1 07:59:41 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 13:59:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
In-Reply-To: <7330d520.3c4b.17583fc35e6.Webtop.88@btinternet.com>
References: <2e6a5054.1058.1757434fdbf.Webtop.86@btinternet.com>
	<5f9af4a2.1c69fb81.76b1f.1d2b@mx.google.com>
	<7330d520.3c4b.17583fc35e6.Webtop.88@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <BA157245-A3C3-4A21-8D9E-E99505CB50BB@icloud.com>

I went on to do a lot of hand held work with cameras weighing a dozen kilos so i now have a twisted back!
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 1 Nov 2020, at 13:25, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi Pat,
> In my experience, most studio Cameramen end up a bit deaf in one ear. This comes from wearing one headphone. If we had any sense, of course, we'd alternate ears on alternate days. But we never did.
> The other problem for Cameramen is bad backs, due to heavy lifting. I never had this problem, because I was a goody-two-shoes who always obeyed the safety instruction which said - when lifting, always bend your knees, not your back. The result, predictably, is that my back's fine, but my knees are buggered!
> luv, Rog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "patheigham" <pat.heigham at amps.net>
> To: "ROGER BUNCE" <rogerbunce at btinternet.com>; "tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: Thursday, 29 Oct, 20 At 16:58
> Subject: RE: [Tech1] Americans
> 
> Rog,
> Sorry to hear about the eyes. Do all ex-cameramen suffer the same, most of the sound recordists I know now wear hearing aids! I had two cataract ops done and now have better than 20-20 vision.
> From your and Bernie?s replies, I would say that we all seem to have followed the careers that we were happy in.
> I loved my time at TVC, LG, and TVT and the BBC gave me unrivalled training.
> But ever since seeing ?South Pacific? in the fleapit cinema in Ryde, I wanted to work in films, and on a musical. I?m delighted that I managed both.
> I enjoyed every programme that I worked on at TVC,  and I?ve said before, made some good friends with whom I?m still in touch.
>  
> Very best
> Pat
>  
> <988677DB56824D088FD1E2733D2B0EBD.jpg>
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: ROGER BUNCE
> Sent: 29 October 2020 11:53
> To: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: RE: [Tech1] Americans
>  
> Hi Pat,
>  
> Apologies for the delayed reply. My ageing Cameraman's eyesight is now so fuzzy, I'm struggling to see the screen. (Fear not, I have an appointment with a laser tomorrow.)
>  
>  
>  
> 
>  
>  
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
>  
>   
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From doug at puddifoot.me  Sun Nov  1 11:29:09 2020
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot)
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2020 17:29:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
Message-ID: <4lq4opcwt4ehqj27mf4nfou6.1604251358242@email.android.com>

When we went one man operation in news, I had to carry camera, tripod, batteries, mics,  a mains light and stand, and extension cable. Around 25 kilos. So I have a twisted back AND buggered knees.

Doug


On 1 November 2020, at 13:59, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

I went on to do a lot of hand held work with cameras weighing a dozen kilos so i now have a twisted back!
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 1 Nov 2020, at 13:25, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi Pat,
> In my experience, most studio Cameramen end up a bit deaf in one ear. This comes from wearing one headphone. If we had any sense, of course, we'd alternate ears on alternate days. But we never did.
> The other problem for Cameramen is bad backs, due to heavy lifting. I never had this problem, because I was a goody-two-shoes who always obeyed the safety instruction which said - when lifting, always bend your knees, not your back. The result, predictably, is that my back's fine, but my knees are buggered!
> luv, Rog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "patheigham" <pat.heigham at amps.net>
> To: "ROGER BUNCE" <rogerbunce at btinternet.com>; "tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: Thursday, 29 Oct, 20 At 16:58
> Subject: RE: [Tech1] Americans
> 
> Rog,
> Sorry to hear about the eyes. Do all ex-cameramen suffer the same, most of the sound recordists I know now wear hearing aids! I had two cataract ops done and now have better than 20-20 vision.
> From your and Bernie?s replies, I would say that we all seem to have followed the careers that we were happy in.
> I loved my time at TVC, LG, and TVT and the BBC gave me unrivalled training.
> But ever since seeing ?South Pacific? in the fleapit cinema in Ryde, I wanted to work in films, and on a musical. I?m delighted that I managed both.
> I enjoyed every programme that I worked on at TVC,  and I?ve said before, made some good friends with whom I?m still in touch.
>  
> Very best
> Pat
>  
> <988677DB56824D088FD1E2733D2B0EBD.jpg>
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: ROGER BUNCE
> Sent: 29 October 2020 11:53
> To: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: RE: [Tech1] Americans
>  
> Hi Pat,
>  
> Apologies for the delayed reply. My ageing Cameraman's eyesight is now so fuzzy, I'm struggling to see the screen. (Fear not, I have an appointment with a laser tomorrow.)
>  
>  
>  
> 
>  
>  
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
>  
>   
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


-- 
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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From mibridge at mac.com  Sun Nov  1 15:52:34 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 21:52:34 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
Message-ID: <A193B263-26E5-47B9-B4D7-C9A2E32A89DC@mac.com>

Does anyone know what the position is with regard to what must be members of the public going about their normal business who appear in shot in dramas when the actor/s is walking along a busy street, or doing the business in any public place, for that matter. I?ve often wondered but never asked. There must be occasions when one individual or another would not wish to be seen if they had any say in the matter. 

Mike G




From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Nov  1 16:12:37 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 22:12:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
In-Reply-To: <A193B263-26E5-47B9-B4D7-C9A2E32A89DC@mac.com>
References: <A193B263-26E5-47B9-B4D7-C9A2E32A89DC@mac.com>
Message-ID: <A07423FA-BCB2-4461-B63E-12BE7184BA1E@me.com>

My understanding is that in general, you can film anything seen on public streets without permission.  There are restrictions regarding underage children.

I used to do a lot of vox pops for a Channel 4 series and this was a subject which was always coming up.  It was often awkward filming in places like street markets because the public being interviewed were happy to sign a consent form but the market traders were desperate not to  be seen in shot.  We assume that the reason might have been that they were claiming benefits as though they were not working.  

Inside private premises such as theatres and shopping malls, it is commonplace to put up signs at all entrances warning visitors that they are likely to be filmed and their consent is assumed if they enter.  I did a lot of work for the Disney group and the first job at each location was to put up those signs and shoot footage of them to prove that they were there.  At the end of the shoot, they were filmed again to prove that they were still in place.  One director always insisted on phoning the speaking clock and having it audible during those shots.

Whether on streets or in private places, people being interviewed or featured would be asked to sign a release form.

I don?t know the exact legal position, but on the few occasions when somebody has made it clear that they don?t want to be seen, their wishes were respected.

Alan Taylor

> On 1 Nov 2020, at 21:53, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Does anyone know what the position is with regard to what must be members of the public going about their normal business who appear in shot in dramas when the actor/s is walking along a busy street, or doing the business in any public place, for that matter. I?ve often wondered but never asked. There must be occasions when one individual or another would not wish to be seen if they had any say in the matter. 
> 
> Mike G
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alawrance1 at me.com  Sun Nov  1 16:14:57 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2020 22:14:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
In-Reply-To: <A193B263-26E5-47B9-B4D7-C9A2E32A89DC@mac.com>
References: <A193B263-26E5-47B9-B4D7-C9A2E32A89DC@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1C180016-B3BF-402B-AECD-3DEED1DD2F48@me.com>

Don't quote me, but I understand that if it's in a public place and "incidental", it's OK, and maybe you have to put notices (A - boards) warning people.  I suspect you have to have official permission of some sort from an authority for a feature, etc., but news would be different, I suspect.

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 1 Nov 2020, at 21:53, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Does anyone know what the position is with regard to what must be members of the public going about their normal business who appear in shot in dramas when the actor/s is walking along a busy street, or doing the business in any public place, for that matter. I?ve often wondered but never asked. There must be occasions when one individual or another would not wish to be seen if they had any say in the matter. 
> 
> Mike G
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From saranewman at hotmail.com  Mon Nov  2 04:10:50 2020
From: saranewman at hotmail.com (Sara Newman)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 10:10:50 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
In-Reply-To: <1C180016-B3BF-402B-AECD-3DEED1DD2F48@me.com>
References: <A193B263-26E5-47B9-B4D7-C9A2E32A89DC@mac.com>,
	<1C180016-B3BF-402B-AECD-3DEED1DD2F48@me.com>
Message-ID: <DB6PR01MB3848786E83F276A40CEBF4D3D0100@DB6PR01MB3848.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Hi When I was 16 I joined a camera club in a large community centre in Manchester We decided one week to go round and take photos of the many activities that were in session Over 15 from archery to pottery We then developed them and at the end of term had an exhibition Several peoples marriages were impacted when families came to see the exhibition of the work of the centre. The second thing was when I was training people and we sent them out into Tonbridge to make a short film Unbeknownst to us there was a huge police operation to catch some criminals which had taken months to set up The criminals saw the cameras 7 teams and decided not to do what they had planned The Police arrived and took all the footage ! Sarax

Sent from my iPhone

> On 1 Nov 2020, at 22:15, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Don't quote me, but I understand that if it's in a public place and "incidental", it's OK, and maybe you have to put notices (A - boards) warning people.  I suspect you have to have official permission of some sort from an authority for a feature, etc., but news would be different, I suspect.
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 1 Nov 2020, at 21:53, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Does anyone know what the position is with regard to what must be members of the public going about their normal business who appear in shot in dramas when the actor/s is walking along a busy street, or doing the business in any public place, for that matter. I?ve often wondered but never asked. There must be occasions when one individual or another would not wish to be seen if they had any say in the matter. 
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  2 04:25:07 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 10:25:07 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Drama Channel.
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB08630728D3EDE77780B63310A7130@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VE1P189MB08630728D3EDE77780B63310A7130@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <58c90c5487davesound@btinternet.com>

Rather the point I was making, Nick. If the original digitising from
master into server had been done with care, there wouldn't have been these
vast changes in level between programmes. 

But fairly recently, there was a vast change in level (sometimes) between
the BBC1 national and London local news. Since I'd expect the BBC to be
using these loudness meters which have been said will stop this sort of
thing, how come?    

In article
<VE1P189MB08630728D3EDE77780B63310A7130 at VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
   Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Maybe I was assuming the presence of engineers with some sort of caring,
> technical standards, etc#. I don?t think I?ve ever knowingly watched
> Drama Channel or Catch-Up TV, but if it?s as bad as you say, that?s
> probably just as well. Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  2 04:28:49 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 10:28:49 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Irony
In-Reply-To: <94BBE283-4607-4170-9420-C2EBB5FD537A@me.com>
References: <6B83EF2E-8F8F-44B3-BF55-8A5409B7203F@mac.com>
	<94BBE283-4607-4170-9420-C2EBB5FD537A@me.com>
Message-ID: <58c90cabe5davesound@btinternet.com>

I'm intrigued by 'self charging hybrid'. Surely even the earliest hybrids
charged their own batteries?  


In article <94BBE283-4607-4170-9420-C2EBB5FD537A at me.com>,
   Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> As a simple soul, I'm getting confused by the naming conventions being
> used on electric cars.

> Vauxhall are adding an 'e' at the end of the name, so the car in their
> special offer is the Corsa e.  There's a certain logic to it, but with
> many car names ending in 'a', it comes across as some sort of Latin
> plural as in  I'll have one Corsa and my company will buy a fleet of
> Corsae.

> Jaguar have a range of sports SUVs called the E-Pace, which have big
> petrol engines, while their electric cars are called I-Pace.

> Hopefully things will become simpler once manufacturers build dedicated
> electric cars rather than adapt existing models and then new model names
> will always be electric and won't need suffixes and prefixes to
> distinguish them.

> Just out of interest, does anybody on the group run an electric or
> hybrid car? My wife is contemplating getting a plug-in hybrid for her
> next car.  For day to day running and commuting, it will use electricity
> from the mains, but for extended runs such as to her family in Germany,
> the petrol motor will keep the battery charged.  I'm in two minds about
> this.  It could be seen as the best of both worlds or the worst. Until
> there is a way of recharging almost as quickly as conventional
> refuelling, pure electric won't work for us.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Nov  2 04:52:41 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 10:52:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Irony
In-Reply-To: <58c90cabe5davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <6B83EF2E-8F8F-44B3-BF55-8A5409B7203F@mac.com>
	<94BBE283-4607-4170-9420-C2EBB5FD537A@me.com>
	<58c90cabe5davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5f9fe4f8.1c69fb81.8a06d.bf06@mx.google.com>

Two folks I know had a Prius Hybrid. Pretty pleased with them but slightly put off if a replacement battery were needed ? a quoted price of around ?5K!
I gather that the directive to go all-electric applies to new vehicles by 2035, but from when, I?m not sure.
Unless the range is much improved, it seems that the sensible answer at present is to use the electric motor as main propulsion, with a small petrol engine to drive a charging generator? Still doesn?t solve the problem of fossil fuel exhaust pollution.
There is a good discussion forum on the Petrol Prices site.
https://www.petrolprices.com/

Happy motoring!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 02 November 2020 10:30
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Irony

I



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From jpbarlow at btopenworld.com  Mon Nov  2 05:03:44 2020
From: jpbarlow at btopenworld.com (jpbarlow at btopenworld.com)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 11:03:44 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
Message-ID: <002e01d6b107$d48ebce0$7dac36a0$@btopenworld.com>

The legal position is that if/when you are in a public then you have no copyright on your own  image and anyone may photograph you.

The problem comes with the definition of a public place. In the street is fine but in a railway station is not. 

JohnB


> On 1 Nov 2020, at 22:15, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:
> 
> ?Don't quote me, but I understand that if it's in a public place and "incidental", it's OK, and maybe you have to put notices (A - boards) warning people.  I suspect you have to have official permission of some sort from an authority for a feature, etc., but news would be different, I suspect.
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 1 Nov 2020, at 21:53, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:
>> 
>> ?Does anyone know what the position is with regard to what must be members of the public going about their normal business who appear in shot in dramas when the actor/s is walking along a busy street, or doing the business in any public place, for that matter. I?ve often wondered but never asked. There must be occasions when one individual or another would not wish to be seen if they had any say in the matter. 
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-- 
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http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  2 06:23:33 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 12:23:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
In-Reply-To: <002e01d6b107$d48ebce0$7dac36a0$@btopenworld.com>
References: <002e01d6b107$d48ebce0$7dac36a0$@btopenworld.com>
Message-ID: <d1f76694-8cc0-8eed-052a-aec6889a1f8a@gmail.com>

Yes.

This turned into a major issue some years ago with stills photography. 
"You can't take photos here" to pro photographers on the public highway. 
There was a court case and after that photographers went around for a 
while carrying a card which quoted it. I had one but never had to 
produce it, and don't know where it is now.

https://www.blpawards.org/competition/photo-rights
https://www.copytrack.com/street-photography-law/

In addition to how the law does or doesn't affect you, you do need to be 
sensitive, if you're any kind of professional at all.? I made a 
documentary about bomb disposal men in the '90s. One thing I really 
wanted to know was how the wives felt, and did several interviews. I 
shot the one of the major in charge in the car on the way from Porton 
Down to Debden - just the two of us in the car. Then I did his wife's 
interview at their married quarters whist he was away - me, my asst 
prod, and their small son.? When I started the offline edit in the 
office I intercut what they said. After a while I felt I was generating 
a divorce, so I stopped, and later put the comments in very separate 
places in the film.

B




On 02/11/2020 11:03, jpbarlow--- via Tech1 wrote:
> Crowds in shot
>
> The legal position is that if/when you are in a public then you have 
> no copyright on yourownimageand anyone may photograph you.
>
> The problem comes with the definition of a public place. In the street 
> is fine but in a railway station is not.
>
> JohnB
>
>
> > On 1 Nov 2020, at 22:15, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> > 
>
> > ?Don't quote me, but I understand that if it's in a public place and 
> "incidental", it's OK, and maybe you have to put notices (A - boards) 
> warning people.? I suspect you have to have official permission of 
> some sort from an authority for a feature, etc., but news would be 
> different, I suspect.
>
> > 
>
> > Alasdair Lawrance
>
> > 
>
> > Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>
> > 
>
> > 
>
> > 
>
> >> On 1 Nov 2020, at 21:53, Mike Giles via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> >> 
>
> >> ?Does anyone know what the position is with regard to what must be 
> members of the public going about their normal business who appear in 
> shot in dramas when the actor/s is walking along a busy street, or 
> doing the business in any public place, for that matter. I?ve often 
> wondered but never asked. There must be occasions when one individual 
> or another would not wish to be seen if they had any say in the matter.
>
> >> 
>
> >> Mike G
>
> >> 
>
> >> 
>
> >> 
>
> >> -- 
>
> >> Tech1 mailing list
>
> >>Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>
> >>http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> > 
>
> > -- 
>
> > Tech1 mailing list
>
> >Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>
> >http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> -- 
>
> Tech1 mailing list
>
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>

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From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Nov  2 06:46:42 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 12:46:42 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
In-Reply-To: <002e01d6b107$d48ebce0$7dac36a0$@btopenworld.com>
References: <002e01d6b107$d48ebce0$7dac36a0$@btopenworld.com>
Message-ID: <FC84D17E-FD30-4809-815A-1B74F29101E0@me.com>

There used to be, and probably still is a byelaw banning the use of photographic tripods on pavements in the Westminster area.  Many of you who have done single camera shoots in that area may have fallen foul of it. When doing an OB in Trafalgar Square, we were issued with official passes and the small print on the back explains that amongst other things, the permit holder may use a photographic tripod.

The next day, I turned up nice and early with my 35mm camera and tripod, set it up with slow film, small aperture and an ND filter so that I could do a very long exposure and all the people and traffic would not register.  Sure enough, no sooner had I started than a jobsworth constable came along and with a rather obnoxious attitude insisted that I couldn?t do that.  He wasn?t best pleased when I showed him my permit stating that I most certainly could do that.

Alan Taylor

> On 2 Nov 2020, at 11:04, jpbarlow--- via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> The legal position is that if/when you are in a public then you have no copyright on your own  image and anyone may photograph you.
> 
> The problem comes with the definition of a public place. In the street is fine but in a railway station is not.
> 
> JohnB
> 
> 
> > On 1 Nov 2020, at 22:15, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > ?Don't quote me, but I understand that if it's in a public place and "incidental", it's OK, and maybe you have to put notices (A - boards) warning people.  I suspect you have to have official permission of some sort from an authority for a feature, etc., but news would be different, I suspect.
> 
> >
> 
> > Alasdair Lawrance
> 
> >
> 
> > Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> >> On 1 Nov 2020, at 21:53, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >> ?Does anyone know what the position is with regard to what must be members of the public going about their normal business who appear in shot in dramas when the actor/s is walking along a busy street, or doing the business in any public place, for that matter. I?ve often wondered but never asked. There must be occasions when one individual or another would not wish to be seen if they had any say in the matter.
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Mike G
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> --
> 
> >> Tech1 mailing list
> 
> >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> >
> 
> > --
> 
> > Tech1 mailing list
> 
> > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> --
> 
> Tech1 mailing list
> 
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Nov  2 07:07:01 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 13:07:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
In-Reply-To: <FC84D17E-FD30-4809-815A-1B74F29101E0@me.com>
References: <002e01d6b107$d48ebce0$7dac36a0$@btopenworld.com>
	<FC84D17E-FD30-4809-815A-1B74F29101E0@me.com>
Message-ID: <5fa00474.1c69fb81.1f8d2.4975@mx.google.com>

Possibly re-named ?Permission to film?

Job for an US Channel ? they wanted pics of the changing of the guard at Buck House. All set up on a traffic island opposite to capture the Guards from the nearby barracks marching past and in.
Before things got underway a pleasant Police Inspector appeared and cheerfully said: ?Just finished, have we, chaps?? Off course no-one had advised the Yanks that permission had to be applied for and granted and normally took days.
So, we hied away to the civil office in Horseferry Road, I think it was, and let the Americans plead their sob story. Next day with bit of paper to produce, the police could not have been more helpful ? holding up the traffic for us to cross, and moving the barriers & crowd aside to allow room for the tripod!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 02 November 2020 12:47
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Crowds in shot

There used to be, and probably still is a byelaw banning the use of photographic tripods on pavements in the Westminster area. ?Many of you who have done single camera shoots in that area may have fallen foul of it. When doing an OB in Trafalgar Square, we were issued with official passes and the small print on the back explains that amongst other things, the permit holder may use a photographic tripod.

The next day, I turned up nice and early with my 35mm camera and tripod, set it up with slow film, small aperture and an ND filter so that I could do a very long exposure and all the people and traffic would not register. ?Sure enough, no sooner had I started than a jobsworth constable came along and with a rather obnoxious attitude insisted that I couldn?t do that. ?He wasn?t best pleased when I showed him my permit stating that I most certainly could do that.

Alan Taylor





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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Nov  2 07:21:51 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 13:21:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
In-Reply-To: <FC84D17E-FD30-4809-815A-1B74F29101E0@me.com>
References: <002e01d6b107$d48ebce0$7dac36a0$@btopenworld.com>
	<FC84D17E-FD30-4809-815A-1B74F29101E0@me.com>
Message-ID: <5fa007ef.1c69fb81.ff20d.a418@mx.google.com>

Being stopped by the police.

Alan?s story woke memories of being stopped by the gentlemen in blue ? in this case a motorbike cop.
Doing a long tracking shot down Whitehall, cameraman with handheld Betacam standing on the passenger seat out of the sun roof. I was driving and got pulled over. Motorbike cop very reasonably pointed out the possible results of an emergency stop. Let us go with a smack wrist.
Similar situation in Paris ? Director wanted a continuous track around the Arc de Triumph ? cameraman out of the sunroof again. I drove around several times, the French police were going beserk as they couldn?t get to us because of the constant traffic. More whistle blowing than a Cup Final!
Ah! Memories!
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 02 November 2020 12:47
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Crowds in shot

There used to be, and probably still is a byelaw banning the use of photographic tripods on pavements in the Westminster area. ?



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From peter.neill at icloud.com  Mon Nov  2 07:32:34 2020
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 13:32:34 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
In-Reply-To: <FC84D17E-FD30-4809-815A-1B74F29101E0@me.com>
References: <002e01d6b107$d48ebce0$7dac36a0$@btopenworld.com>
	<FC84D17E-FD30-4809-815A-1B74F29101E0@me.com>
Message-ID: <9AD50FF5-02C3-4CD5-9CB6-C216DC52C712@icloud.com>

And as anyone who has filmed in Canary Wharf knows, the whole area, including roads and pavements is private property so no filming without permission or security descends very quickly.


Peter Neill
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From waresound at msn.com  Mon Nov  2 07:44:16 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 13:44:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
In-Reply-To: <d1f76694-8cc0-8eed-052a-aec6889a1f8a@gmail.com>
References: <002e01d6b107$d48ebce0$7dac36a0$@btopenworld.com>,
	<d1f76694-8cc0-8eed-052a-aec6889a1f8a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863E88079949A3E5A06F672A7100@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

?We? regularly used to do vox pops with Danny Baker for the LWT ?Six O?clock Show?, and where better nearby to find loads of people willing to talk than Waterloo Station? I totally lost count of the number of times the station security jobsworth came and threw us out, often quite agressively. It got to the point where he knew us all by name, and he even used to say ?Look I know it?s daft, but you?re not allowed to do it in here?.
My favourite Waterloo moment was the day I decided to go home by train. So there I was, bedecked with sound kit, pole and Rycote etc., strolling along the concourse. I can still see the look of glee on his face when jobsworth spotted me and came striding over, expecting to grab me by the collar and throw me out. I showed him my train ticket.
?I?m a Customer now!? I said, and off he slunk.

We were in the wrong, of course, but try telling that to Danny! We once (I don?t think Danny was with us this time) got arrested for shooting GV?s in Leicester Square and Piccadilly, etc., driving around, the cameraman kneeling on the front seat with the camera through the sun-roof on his shoulder. Me driving, so I was ultimately responsible in the eyes of the Law. Not sure how we managed to blag our way out of that, but we did.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 2 Nov 2020, at 12:24, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? Yes.

This turned into a major issue some years ago with stills photography. "You can't take photos here" to pro photographers on the public highway. There was a court case and after that photographers went around for a while carrying a card which quoted it. I had one but never had to produce it, and don't know where it is now.

https://www.blpawards.org/competition/photo-rights
https://www.copytrack.com/street-photography-law/

In addition to how the law does or doesn't affect you, you do need to be sensitive, if you're any kind of professional at all.  I made a documentary about bomb disposal men in the '90s. One thing I really wanted to know was how the wives felt, and did several interviews. I shot the one of the major in charge in the car on the way from Porton Down to Debden - just the two of us in the car. Then I did his wife's interview at their married quarters whist he was away - me, my asst prod, and their small son.  When I started the offline edit in the office I intercut what they said. After a while I felt I was generating a divorce, so I stopped, and later put the comments in very separate places in the film.

B




On 02/11/2020 11:03, jpbarlow--- via Tech1 wrote:

The legal position is that if/when you are in a public then you have no copyright on your own  image and anyone may photograph you.

The problem comes with the definition of a public place. In the street is fine but in a railway station is not.

JohnB


> On 1 Nov 2020, at 22:15, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

>

> ?Don't quote me, but I understand that if it's in a public place and "incidental", it's OK, and maybe you have to put notices (A - boards) warning people.  I suspect you have to have official permission of some sort from an authority for a feature, etc., but news would be different, I suspect.

>

> Alasdair Lawrance

>

> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.

>

>

>

>> On 1 Nov 2020, at 21:53, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

>>

>> ?Does anyone know what the position is with regard to what must be members of the public going about their normal business who appear in shot in dramas when the actor/s is walking along a busy street, or doing the business in any public place, for that matter. I?ve often wondered but never asked. There must be occasions when one individual or another would not wish to be seen if they had any say in the matter.

>>

>> Mike G

>>

>>

>>

>> --

>> Tech1 mailing list

>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>

>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

>

> --

> Tech1 mailing list

> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>

> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

--

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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>

http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



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From waresound at msn.com  Mon Nov  2 07:52:42 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 13:52:42 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863E88079949A3E5A06F672A7100@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VE1P189MB0863E88079949A3E5A06F672A7100@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB086371F84315F922E527ED26A7100@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

If Pat?s sun-roof story seems coincidentally similar, bear in mind it was probably the same sun-roof, and quite possibly the same cameraman!!
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 2 Nov 2020, at 13:44, Nick Ware <Waresound at msn.com> wrote:

? ?We? regularly used to do vox pops with Danny Baker for the LWT ?Six O?clock Show?, and where better nearby to find loads of people willing to talk than Waterloo Station? I totally lost count of the number of times the station security jobsworth came and threw us out, often quite agressively. It got to the point where he knew us all by name, and he even used to say ?Look I know it?s daft, but you?re not allowed to do it in here?.
My favourite Waterloo moment was the day I decided to go home by train. So there I was, bedecked with sound kit, pole and Rycote etc., strolling along the concourse. I can still see the look of glee on his face when jobsworth spotted me and came striding over, expecting to grab me by the collar and throw me out. I showed him my train ticket.
?I?m a Customer now!? I said, and off he slunk.

We were in the wrong, of course, but try telling that to Danny! We once (I don?t think Danny was with us this time) got arrested for shooting GV?s in Leicester Square and Piccadilly, etc., driving around, the cameraman kneeling on the front seat with the camera through the sun-roof on his shoulder. Me driving, so I was ultimately responsible in the eyes of the Law. Not sure how we managed to blag our way out of that, but we did.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 2 Nov 2020, at 12:24, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? Yes.

This turned into a major issue some years ago with stills photography. "You can't take photos here" to pro photographers on the public highway. There was a court case and after that photographers went around for a while carrying a card which quoted it. I had one but never had to produce it, and don't know where it is now.

https://www.blpawards.org/competition/photo-rights
https://www.copytrack.com/street-photography-law/

In addition to how the law does or doesn't affect you, you do need to be sensitive, if you're any kind of professional at all.  I made a documentary about bomb disposal men in the '90s. One thing I really wanted to know was how the wives felt, and did several interviews. I shot the one of the major in charge in the car on the way from Porton Down to Debden - just the two of us in the car. Then I did his wife's interview at their married quarters whist he was away - me, my asst prod, and their small son.  When I started the offline edit in the office I intercut what they said. After a while I felt I was generating a divorce, so I stopped, and later put the comments in very separate places in the film.

B




On 02/11/2020 11:03, jpbarlow--- via Tech1 wrote:

The legal position is that if/when you are in a public then you have no copyright on your own  image and anyone may photograph you.

The problem comes with the definition of a public place. In the street is fine but in a railway station is not.

JohnB


> On 1 Nov 2020, at 22:15, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

>

> ?Don't quote me, but I understand that if it's in a public place and "incidental", it's OK, and maybe you have to put notices (A - boards) warning people.  I suspect you have to have official permission of some sort from an authority for a feature, etc., but news would be different, I suspect.

>

> Alasdair Lawrance

>

> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.

>

>

>

>> On 1 Nov 2020, at 21:53, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

>>

>> ?Does anyone know what the position is with regard to what must be members of the public going about their normal business who appear in shot in dramas when the actor/s is walking along a busy street, or doing the business in any public place, for that matter. I?ve often wondered but never asked. There must be occasions when one individual or another would not wish to be seen if they had any say in the matter.

>>

>> Mike G

>>

>>

>>

>> --

>> Tech1 mailing list

>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>

>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

>

> --

> Tech1 mailing list

> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>

> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  2 07:50:45 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 13:50:45 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Irony
In-Reply-To: <5f9fe4f8.1c69fb81.8a06d.bf06@mx.google.com>
References: <6B83EF2E-8F8F-44B3-BF55-8A5409B7203F@mac.com>
	<94BBE283-4607-4170-9420-C2EBB5FD537A@me.com>
	<58c90cabe5davesound@btinternet.com>
	<5f9fe4f8.1c69fb81.8a06d.bf06@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <58c91f282bdavesound@btinternet.com>

In article <5f9fe4f8.1c69fb81.8a06d.bf06 at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
> Two folks I know had a Prius Hybrid. Pretty pleased with them but
> slightly put off if a replacement battery were needed ? a quoted price
> of around ?5K!

Of course a new engine for a similar car could cost that too. Decent
quality Li-Ion batteries can have a very long life indeed - if properly
protected from abuse by good electronics.

And the fact the Prius is so popular with mini cab drivers says its
running costs overall must be pretty good.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  2 07:45:13 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2020 13:45:13 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
In-Reply-To: <FC84D17E-FD30-4809-815A-1B74F29101E0@me.com>
References: <002e01d6b107$d48ebce0$7dac36a0$@btopenworld.com>
	<FC84D17E-FD30-4809-815A-1B74F29101E0@me.com>
Message-ID: <58c91ea703davesound@btinternet.com>

In article <FC84D17E-FD30-4809-815A-1B74F29101E0 at me.com>,
   Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> There used to be, and probably still is a byelaw banning the use of
> photographic tripods on pavements in the Westminster area.  Many of you
> who have done single camera shoots in that area may have fallen foul of
> it. 

Don't most local councils require you get (and pay for) a permit to film
in their area?

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From relong at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  2 10:02:28 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2020 16:02:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
In-Reply-To: <5fa007ef.1c69fb81.ff20d.a418@mx.google.com>
References: <5fa007ef.1c69fb81.ff20d.a418@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <C225D177-9859-4F01-92CB-652B0B503FBC@btinternet.com>

No tripods on pavement always ment hand held vox pops
Film Unit cars,Zephers and Westminster?s always had Mulliner camera platforms on their roofs for tracking shots.
They became illegal , but we still shot out of sunshine roofs!
More than one Westminster survived a roll over on the M1 cos of that roof, and they were great for transporting antiques bought on location..

Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Nov 2020, at 13:22, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Being stopped by the police.
>  
> Alan?s story woke memories of being stopped by the gentlemen in blue ? in this case a motorbike cop.
> Doing a long tracking shot down Whitehall, cameraman with handheld Betacam standing on the passenger seat out of the sun roof. I was driving and got pulled over. Motorbike cop very reasonably pointed out the possible results of an emergency stop. Let us go with a smack wrist.
> Similar situation in Paris ? Director wanted a continuous track around the Arc de Triumph ? cameraman out of the sunroof again. I drove around several times, the French police were going beserk as they couldn?t get to us because of the constant traffic. More whistle blowing than a Cup Final!
> Ah! Memories!
> Pat
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
> Sent: 02 November 2020 12:47
> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Crowds in shot
>  
> There used to be, and probably still is a byelaw banning the use of photographic tripods on pavements in the Westminster area.  
>  
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
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From waresound at msn.com  Tue Nov  3 15:33:36 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2020 21:33:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Drama Channel.
In-Reply-To: <58c90c5487davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <VE1P189MB08630728D3EDE77780B63310A7130@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<58c90c5487davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863A53E92BD986D6A1716BEA7110@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

This is being discussed on IPS Workplace chat now, not that it will make any difference!
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 2 Nov 2020, at 10:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Rather the point I was making, Nick. If the original digitising from
> master into server had been done with care, there wouldn't have been these
> vast changes in level between programmes. 
> 
> But fairly recently, there was a vast change in level (sometimes) between
> the BBC1 national and London local news. Since I'd expect the BBC to be
> using these loudness meters which have been said will stop this sort of
> thing, how come?    
> 
> In article
> <VE1P189MB08630728D3EDE77780B63310A7130 at VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
>   Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Maybe I was assuming the presence of engineers with some sort of caring,
>> technical standards, etc#. I don't think I've ever knowingly watched
>> Drama Channel or Catch-Up TV, but if it's as bad as you say, that's
>> probably just as well. Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
> -- 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Nov  3 18:36:40 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 00:36:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Drama Channel.
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863A53E92BD986D6A1716BEA7110@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VE1P189MB08630728D3EDE77780B63310A7130@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<58c90c5487davesound@btinternet.com>
	<VE1P189MB0863A53E92BD986D6A1716BEA7110@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <d0eebd44-418b-8259-2145-12b4ed9b16db@btinternet.com>

My wife watches the Drama Channel a lot, especially on Sunday morning, 
when there are several 'The Bill' episodes. Last Sunday after the Bill 
there was a 'Stunning' new adaptation (their words!) of 'Jane Eyre'. 
Well, every time dialogue stopped the background FX rose and when 
someone spoke it went quiet again! Many years ago we were watching an 
American feature film with two characters walking round the lake in 
Central Park, New York, and the same thing happened, which showed me 
that the Americans can't do live outside dramas and it has to be all 
post-dubbed! Cheers, Dave

On 03/11/2020 21:33, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> This is being discussed on IPS Workplace chat now, not that it will make any difference!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>> On 2 Nov 2020, at 10:28, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Rather the point I was making, Nick. If the original digitising from
>> master into server had been done with care, there wouldn't have been these
>> vast changes in level between programmes.
>>
>> But fairly recently, there was a vast change in level (sometimes) between
>> the BBC1 national and London local news. Since I'd expect the BBC to be
>> using these loudness meters which have been said will stop this sort of
>> thing, how come?
>>
>> In article
>> <VE1P189MB08630728D3EDE77780B63310A7130 at VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
>>    Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Maybe I was assuming the presence of engineers with some sort of caring,
>>> technical standards, etc#. I don't think I've ever knowingly watched
>>> Drama Channel or Catch-Up TV, but if it's as bad as you say, that's
>>> probably just as well. Cheers, Nick. Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>> -- 
>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From waresound at msn.com  Wed Nov  4 05:35:20 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 11:35:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Drama Channel.
In-Reply-To: <d0eebd44-418b-8259-2145-12b4ed9b16db@btinternet.com>
References: <d0eebd44-418b-8259-2145-12b4ed9b16db@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863DE36D27C40C3B66D0412A7EF0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Curiosity got the better of me, so I watched about five minutes of an old Holby City on Drama Channel. As said, the amount of AGC/compression is grotesque. Clearly no peak or loudness meter ever came anywhere near that neck of the woods. The audio is so knackered that I wondered if one of these might be more useful to measure the level of knackerage:
[cid:113FDADE-BB3B-4812-B3AA-57EB2C0FE0B8]

Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 4 Nov 2020, at 00:36, dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com> wrote:

?My wife watches the Drama Channel a lot, especially on Sunday morning, when there are several 'The Bill' episodes. Last Sunday after the Bill there was a 'Stunning' new adaptation (their words!) of 'Jane Eyre'. Well, every time dialogue stopped the background FX rose and when someone spoke it went quiet again! Many years ago we were watching an American feature film with two characters walking round the lake in Central Park, New York, and the same thing happened, which showed me that the Americans can't do live outside dramas and it has to be all post-dubbed!

Cheers, Dave

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Nov  4 05:57:12 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 11:57:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Drama Channel.
In-Reply-To: <d0eebd44-418b-8259-2145-12b4ed9b16db@btinternet.com>
References: <VE1P189MB08630728D3EDE77780B63310A7130@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<58c90c5487davesound@btinternet.com>
	<VE1P189MB0863A53E92BD986D6A1716BEA7110@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<d0eebd44-418b-8259-2145-12b4ed9b16db@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5fa29719.1c69fb81.2b21c.8da9@mx.google.com>

I may have posted this reply some while back.
I found Drama channel very annoying with the background atmos going up and down between dialogue.
I investigated my small Samsung Smart TV, and found that there was a sound feature that was called ?auto volume? designed to balance the sound between sources.
I switched that off, and it seemed to cure the ?atmos? effect.
I was watching an episode of Judge John Deed which was particularly affected. So I wonder if it?s down to the TV rather than the playout.
I haven?t checked it on my larger Sony, but I do not use that TV?s sound, merely as a picture monitor, fed from a DVD recorder which is connected to the hi-fi for audio out.

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: dave.mdv via Tech1
Sent: 04 November 2020 00:36
To: Nick Ware
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Drama Channel.

M



-- 
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From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Nov  4 06:36:48 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 12:36:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Drama Channel.
In-Reply-To: <5fa29719.1c69fb81.2b21c.8da9@mx.google.com>
References: <VE1P189MB08630728D3EDE77780B63310A7130@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<58c90c5487davesound@btinternet.com>
	<VE1P189MB0863A53E92BD986D6A1716BEA7110@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<d0eebd44-418b-8259-2145-12b4ed9b16db@btinternet.com>
	<5fa29719.1c69fb81.2b21c.8da9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <117BC558-2BDB-4F73-A74C-2DD38CBD911E@me.com>

When I got my current TV, I went through every menu option I could find and deselected any options which look like that might automatically tweak the sound or picture.  In an ideal world I would like just one button marked "Leave the bloody thing alone".

I despair of the people who create software for so called smart gadgets.  My TV records to USB, but names the programme according to what was on air at the start of the recording, which is usually the previous show.  There is no way to rename recordings. Entering text is ridiculous anyway because in some modes, the screen displays a QWERTY keyboard, while in others, the keyboard has characters  in alphabetical order.  I've got a smart HiFi system in the bedroom which offers dual stereo amplifiers, so the bedroom speakers can be at a quite different level to the en-suite speakers.  However if you use the alarm feature to wake up to music, it resets the volume of both speakers to be the same.  Why can't it just leave them as they were?

With these devices and others, I get the distinct impression that the software was written in modules which were probably re-used from earlier devices and the over-riding principal was 'That will do". Unfortunately there is no overall consistency and minimal quality control.  I often wonder if anybody actually tried out these devices in the real world before releasing them?


Alan Taylor



On 4 Nov 2020, at 4 Nov . 11:57, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I may have posted this reply some while back.
> I found Drama channel very annoying with the background atmos going up and down between dialogue.
> I investigated my small Samsung Smart TV, and found that there was a sound feature that was called ?auto volume? designed to balance the sound between sources.
> I switched that off, and it seemed to cure the ?atmos? effect.
> I was watching an episode of Judge John Deed which was particularly affected. So I wonder if it?s down to the TV rather than the playout.
> I haven?t checked it on my larger Sony, but I do not use that TV?s sound, merely as a picture monitor, fed from a DVD recorder which is connected to the hi-fi for audio out.
>  
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: dave.mdv via Tech1
> Sent: 04 November 2020 00:36
> To: Nick Ware
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Drama Channel.
>  
> M
>  
> 
> 
> 	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From davesound at btinternet.com  Wed Nov  4 08:13:15 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 14:13:15 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Drama Channel.
In-Reply-To: <5fa29719.1c69fb81.2b21c.8da9@mx.google.com>
References: <VE1P189MB08630728D3EDE77780B63310A7130@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<58c90c5487davesound@btinternet.com>
	<VE1P189MB0863A53E92BD986D6A1716BEA7110@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<d0eebd44-418b-8259-2145-12b4ed9b16db@btinternet.com>
	<5fa29719.1c69fb81.2b21c.8da9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <58ca28e2a1davesound@btinternet.com>

In article <5fa29719.1c69fb81.2b21c.8da9 at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I investigated my small Samsung Smart TV, and found that there was a
> sound feature that was called ?auto volume? designed to balance the
> sound between sources. I switched that off, and it seemed to cure the
> ?atmos? effect. I was watching an episode of Judge John Deed which was
> particularly affected. So I wonder if it?s down to the TV rather than
> the playout.

My set is fed via Toslink to the main Hi-Fi system. Pretty well all those
'options' only apply to the TV set speakers - not the audio out.

But if would be a very sophisticated TV that let you select these options
for an individual TV channel.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From davesound at btinternet.com  Wed Nov  4 08:25:01 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 14:25:01 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Drama Channel.
In-Reply-To: <d0eebd44-418b-8259-2145-12b4ed9b16db@btinternet.com>
References: <VE1P189MB08630728D3EDE77780B63310A7130@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<58c90c5487davesound@btinternet.com>
	<VE1P189MB0863A53E92BD986D6A1716BEA7110@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<d0eebd44-418b-8259-2145-12b4ed9b16db@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <58ca29f70bdavesound@btinternet.com>

In article <d0eebd44-418b-8259-2145-12b4ed9b16db at btinternet.com>,
   dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> My wife watches the Drama Channel a lot, especially on Sunday morning, 
> when there are several 'The Bill' episodes. Last Sunday after the Bill 
> there was a 'Stunning' new adaptation (their words!) of 'Jane Eyre'. 
> Well, every time dialogue stopped the background FX rose and when 
> someone spoke it went quiet again! Many years ago we were watching an 
> American feature film with two characters walking round the lake in 
> Central Park, New York, and the same thing happened, which showed me 
> that the Americans can't do live outside dramas and it has to be all 
> post-dubbed! Cheers, Dave

I watched the Miss Marple last night. The original TV series with Joan
Hickson, and in IMHO the best adaption of any Christie character on TV.
Even when I likely remember the story, still worth watching again, after
all these years.

One scene started with an establisher - one old man in the room, to begin
with. And a ticking clock. I'd fired up the PPM on purpose for this. The
clock tick was reading PPM 4 1/2 - until someone entered the room and
spoke. Also the rather beautiful music links (which are sparingly used)
ducking up and down depending on what else was going on. Talk about
amateur night.

I've emailed UKTV. Had a standard response saying they will pass it on to
their engineering team. Cynical me says "what engineering team?"

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From davesound at btinternet.com  Wed Nov  4 08:44:25 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 14:44:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Drama Channel.
In-Reply-To: <d0eebd44-418b-8259-2145-12b4ed9b16db@btinternet.com>
References: <VE1P189MB08630728D3EDE77780B63310A7130@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<58c90c5487davesound@btinternet.com>
	<VE1P189MB0863A53E92BD986D6A1716BEA7110@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<d0eebd44-418b-8259-2145-12b4ed9b16db@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <58ca2bbceadavesound@btinternet.com>

In article <d0eebd44-418b-8259-2145-12b4ed9b16db at btinternet.com>,
   dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Many years ago we were watching an 
> American feature film with two characters walking round the lake in 
> Central Park, New York, and the same thing happened, which showed me 
> that the Americans can't do live outside dramas and it has to be all 
> post-dubbed! 

Why would a background - presumably added at the dub - vary in level with
the dialogue just because it was post sync?

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Nov  4 08:53:13 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 14:53:13 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Drama Channel.
In-Reply-To: <58ca28e2a1davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <VE1P189MB08630728D3EDE77780B63310A7130@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<58c90c5487davesound@btinternet.com>
	<VE1P189MB0863A53E92BD986D6A1716BEA7110@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<d0eebd44-418b-8259-2145-12b4ed9b16db@btinternet.com>
	<5fa29719.1c69fb81.2b21c.8da9@mx.google.com>
	<58ca28e2a1davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <9BE96CB1-FD68-4827-BE7F-BBD8FF078DE6@me.com>

On my smart TV, the audio can be fed to a HiFi system via a 3.5mm jack.  There is an option within an audio menu to select whether the sound is fed after the TV volume control, or at fixed level.  Unsurprisingly I opted for pre fader and control the listening level on my HiFi.  Out of curiosity, I tried the post-fader setting and also enabled the AGC option. it affected the post fader feed to the HiF too.  Reverting to pre-fader gave external sound without the automatic gain control.  

It might be worth checking if there are options for how the aux feed is generated on your set, but of course disabling the AGC should disable AGC via both the pre and post fader routes.

Alan Taylor




On 4 Nov 2020, at 4 Nov . 14:13, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <5fa29719.1c69fb81.2b21c.8da9 at mx.google.com>,
>   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> I investigated my small Samsung Smart TV, and found that there was a
>> sound feature that was called ?auto volume? designed to balance the
>> sound between sources. I switched that off, and it seemed to cure the
>> ?atmos? effect. I was watching an episode of Judge John Deed which was
>> particularly affected. So I wonder if it?s down to the TV rather than
>> the playout.
> 
> My set is fed via Toslink to the main Hi-Fi system. Pretty well all those
> 'options' only apply to the TV set speakers - not the audio out.
> 
> But if would be a very sophisticated TV that let you select these options
> for an individual TV channel.
> 
> -- 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Wed Nov  4 10:05:07 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 16:05:07 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
In-Reply-To: <000001d6b224$e6bdbf10$b4393d30$@gmx.com>
References: <2e6a5054.1058.1757434fdbf.Webtop.86@btinternet.com>
	<5f9af4a2.1c69fb81.76b1f.1d2b@mx.google.com>
	<7330d520.3c4b.17583fc35e6.Webtop.88@btinternet.com>
	<000001d6b224$e6bdbf10$b4393d30$@gmx.com>
Message-ID: <2725ec8d.898e.17594013213.Webtop.106@btinternet.com>


Of course, anyone who worked on the studio floor, on "Top of the Pops", 
is likely to have ended up deaf in both ears - as were most of the 
singers we were recording.

------ Original Message ------
From: "David Wagner" <davewagner at gmx.com>
To: "'ROGER BUNCE'" <rogerbunce at btinternet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 3 Nov, 20 At 21:04
Subject: RE: [Tech1] Americans

Interesting. I always wore my headphones on my left ear and now I?m much 
more deaf in my right ear. Could that be because I was mostly in the 
Sound Gallery with very loud Sound Supervisors? Or it might just be 
hereditary, my mum was the same.


From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of ROGER 
BUNCE via Tech1
Sent: 01 November 2020 13:26
To: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Americans


Hi Pat,
In my experience, most studio Cameramen end up a bit deaf in one ear. 
This comes from wearing one headphone. If we had any sense, of course, 
we'd alternate ears on alternate days. But we never did.
The other problem for Cameramen is bad backs, due to heavy lifting. I 
never had this problem, because I was a goody-two-shoes who always 
obeyed the safety instruction which said - when lifting, always bend 
your knees, not your back. The result, predictably, is that my back's 
fine, but my knees are buggered!
luv, Rog.



------ Original Message ------
From: "patheigham" <pat.heigham at amps.net>
To: "ROGER BUNCE" <rogerbunce at btinternet.com>; "tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" 
<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, 29 Oct, 20 At 16:58
Subject: RE: [Tech1] Americans
Rog,
Sorry to hear about the eyes. Do all ex-cameramen suffer the same, most 
of the sound recordists I know now wear hearing aids! I had two cataract 
ops done and now have better than 20-20 vision.
 From your and Bernie?s replies, I would say that we all seem to have 
followed the careers that we were happy in.
I loved my time at TVC, LG, and TVT and the BBC gave me unrivalled 
training.
But ever since seeing ?South Pacific? in the fleapit cinema in Ryde, I 
wanted to work in films, and on a musical. I?m delighted that I managed 
both.
I enjoyed every programme that I worked on at TVC, and I?ve said before, 
made some good friends with whom I?m still in touch.
Very best
Pat
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for 
Windows 10
From: ROGER BUNCE <mailto:rogerbunce at btinternet.com>
Sent: 29 October 2020 11:53
To: patheigham <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net> ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Tech1] Americans

Hi Pat,
Apologies for the delayed reply. My ageing Cameraman's eyesight is now 
so fuzzy, I'm struggling to see the screen. (Fear not, I have an 
appointment with a laser tomorrow.)



Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>



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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  4 10:13:07 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 16:13:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Voyager 2
Message-ID: <a7c8d65b-8199-62b6-5410-20a902a7ef2f@gmail.com>

A propos of nothing, I found this on Ars Technica.? 43 years ago!? I 
might be getting old.

B

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
/
//The Voyager 2 spacecraft has been gone from Earth for more than 43 
years, and it now lies 125 astronomical units from our planet. That is 
125 times the distance between the Earth and Sun.//
//Understandably, this distance makes it rather difficult for NASA to 
communicate with its far-flung spacecraft?there is a time delay of more 
than 17 hours. However, with Voyager 2, there is another complication in 
talking to the spacecraft.//
//
//??? After flying by Jupiter, Saturn, and Uranus, Voyager 2 made its 
final planetary flyby in August 1989 past Neptune. Scientists were also 
interested in flying by Neptune's intriguing moon Triton, so they 
commanded Voyager 2 to do so on its way beyond Neptune, flying over the 
north pole of Triton. This trajectory carried it along a southward path 
relative to the plane of the Solar System, and it has kept on booking it 
south.//
//
//This has consequences for communicating with NASA's Deep Space Network 
on Earth, which consists of three large radio antenna facilities around 
the world, in California, Spain, and Australia. Typically, this 
geographical spread allows for all of NASA's spacecraft still active to 
have the capability to communicate with at least one of these facilities 
at all times.//
//
//But because Voyager 2 has dipped so far south of the plane of the 
Solar System, it can now only communicate by line of sight with the 
70-meter-wide antenna in Canberra, Australia. Because this facility is 
about five decades old, it needed to?undergo refurbishment and upgrade 
work?beginning in March, and it had been offline since that time. This 
work is expected to conclude in February, so NASA has been unable to 
send signals to Voyager 2 since that time.//
//
//Last week, to test new hardware recently installed on the large dish, 
Voyager mission managers were able to send a series of signals to the 
spacecraft for the first time since March. Voyager 2 replied that it 
had, indeed, received the signals and executed NASA's commands,?the 
space agency says.//
//
//That's good for NASA and science in general, as Voyager 2 (along with 
Voyager 1) is now venturing beyond the Solar System, into interstellar 
space. Out in the great black beyond, Voyager 2 will continue to return 
data about the speed, density, temperature, and pressure of charged 
particles in the interstellar medium./
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Wed Nov  4 10:23:24 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 16:23:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Voyager 2
In-Reply-To: <a7c8d65b-8199-62b6-5410-20a902a7ef2f@gmail.com>
References: <a7c8d65b-8199-62b6-5410-20a902a7ef2f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2F50EC2C-AB5D-41D7-9F49-9CDBF65FFB29@icloud.com>

Impressive! I remember the excitement when the original pictures came back as the two craft flew by the various planets.

Graeme Wall

> On 4 Nov 2020, at 16:13, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? A propos of nothing, I found this on Ars Technica.  43 years ago!  I might be getting old.
> 
> B
> 
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> The Voyager 2 spacecraft has been gone from Earth for more than 43 years, and it now lies 125 astronomical units from our planet. That is 125 times the distance between the Earth and Sun.
> Understandably, this distance makes it rather difficult for NASA to communicate with its far-flung spacecraft?there is a time delay of more than 17 hours. However, with Voyager 2, there is another complication in talking to the spacecraft.
> 
>     After flying by Jupiter, Saturn, and Uranus, Voyager 2 made its final planetary flyby in August 1989 past Neptune. Scientists were also interested in flying by Neptune's intriguing moon Triton, so they commanded Voyager 2 to do so on its way beyond Neptune, flying over the north pole of Triton. This trajectory carried it along a southward path relative to the plane of the Solar System, and it has kept on booking it south.
> 
> This has consequences for communicating with NASA's Deep Space Network on Earth, which consists of three large radio antenna facilities around the world, in California, Spain, and Australia. Typically, this geographical spread allows for all of NASA's spacecraft still active to have the capability to communicate with at least one of these facilities at all times.
> 
> But because Voyager 2 has dipped so far south of the plane of the Solar System, it can now only communicate by line of sight with the 70-meter-wide antenna in Canberra, Australia. Because this facility is about five decades old, it needed to undergo refurbishment and upgrade work beginning in March, and it had been offline since that time. This work is expected to conclude in February, so NASA has been unable to send signals to Voyager 2 since that time.
> 
> Last week, to test new hardware recently installed on the large dish, Voyager mission managers were able to send a series of signals to the spacecraft for the first time since March. Voyager 2 replied that it had, indeed, received the signals and executed NASA's commands, the space agency says.
> 
> That's good for NASA and science in general, as Voyager 2 (along with Voyager 1) is now venturing beyond the Solar System, into interstellar space. Out in the great black beyond, Voyager 2 will continue to return data about the speed, density, temperature, and pressure of charged particles in the interstellar medium.
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Wed Nov  4 12:06:43 2020
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer)
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 18:06:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Voyager 2
Message-ID: <fbelrpryoao11tnj03jmrh28.1604513203216@email.android.com>

It's all quite mind-blowing, isn't it!?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 04/11/2020  16:13  (GMT+00:00) To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Voyager 2 
    A propos of nothing, I
      found this on Ars Technica.? 43 years ago!? I might be getting
      old.
      
      B
      
      +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      
      The Voyager 2 spacecraft has been gone from Earth for more
        than 43 years, and it now lies 125 astronomical units from our
        planet. That is 125 times the distance between the Earth and
        Sun.
      Understandably, this distance makes it rather difficult for
        NASA to communicate with its far-flung spacecraft?there is a
        time delay of more than 17 hours. However, with Voyager 2, there
        is another complication in talking to the spacecraft.
      
      ??? After flying by Jupiter, Saturn, and Uranus, Voyager 2
        made its final planetary flyby in August 1989 past Neptune.
        Scientists were also interested in flying by Neptune's
        intriguing moon Triton, so they commanded Voyager 2 to do so on
        its way beyond Neptune, flying over the north pole of Triton.
        This trajectory carried it along a southward path relative to
        the plane of the Solar System, and it has kept on booking it
        south.
      
      This has consequences for communicating with NASA's Deep
        Space Network on Earth, which consists of three large radio
        antenna facilities around the world, in California, Spain, and
        Australia. Typically, this geographical spread allows for all of
        NASA's spacecraft still active to have the capability to
        communicate with at least one of these facilities at all times.
      
      But because Voyager 2 has dipped so far south of the plane
        of the Solar System, it can now only communicate by line of
        sight with the 70-meter-wide antenna in Canberra, Australia.
        Because this facility is about five decades old, it needed
        to?undergo refurbishment and upgrade work?beginning in March,
        and it had been offline since that time. This work is expected
        to conclude in February, so NASA has been unable to send signals
        to Voyager 2 since that time.
      
      Last week, to test new hardware recently installed on the
        large dish, Voyager mission managers were able to send a series
        of signals to the spacecraft for the first time since March.
        Voyager 2 replied that it had, indeed, received the signals and
        executed NASA's commands,?the space agency says.
      
      That's good for NASA and science in general, as Voyager 2
        (along with Voyager 1) is now venturing beyond the Solar System,
        into interstellar space. Out in the great black beyond, Voyager
        2 will continue to return data about the speed, density,
        temperature, and pressure of charged particles in the
        interstellar medium.
    
  
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From mibridge at mac.com  Wed Nov  4 16:53:28 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 22:53:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Batteries
Message-ID: <9712A818-518E-4369-8844-2089A54819B8@mac.com>

I?ve received several e-mails recently telling me that regularly recharging mobile phone batteries to 100% is likely to shorten the battery life by a significant margin and that it?s better to ambition it between 50% and 80% ~ not easy if you normally charge your phone overnight. Is there any substance in this suggestion?

Mike G

From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Wed Nov  4 16:55:33 2020
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2020 22:55:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Batteries
In-Reply-To: <9712A818-518E-4369-8844-2089A54819B8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <d5u9bulnh4mcs9lu63c4cq3e.1604530533901@pgtmedia.co.uk>

Thier was about 10 years ago,  not much now!



Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

07802 243979

Mail;?paul at pgtmedia.co.uk

Web;?http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin;???http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB;?http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/

sent from my BlackBerry?the most secure mobile device?via the O2 Network


	? Original Message ?	


From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 4 November 2020 22:53
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Reply to: mibridge at mac.com
Subject: [Tech1] Batteries


I?ve received several e-mails recently telling me that regularly recharging mobile phone batteries to 100% is likely to shorten the battery life by a significant margin and that it?s better to ambition it between 50% and 80% ~ not easy if you normally charge your phone overnight. Is there any substance in this suggestion?

Mike G
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From mibridge at mac.com  Wed Nov  4 17:15:17 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 23:15:17 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Batteries
In-Reply-To: <d5u9bulnh4mcs9lu63c4cq3e.1604530533901@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <d5u9bulnh4mcs9lu63c4cq3e.1604530533901@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <547D3CEC-51C2-4B47-9222-C4DBA4CCAEBA@mac.com>

Thanks Paul, I?ve just re-read my e-mail and I think I?ve invented a new phrase in ?ambition it to 50% to 80%?! I can?t even work out what word I meant to use, so where spellcheck got ?ambition? from I can?t imagine.

My ambition is to notice such nonsense before I press the send button!

Mike G


> On 4 Nov 2020, at 22:55, Paul Thackray <paul at pgtmedia.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Thier was about 10 years ago,  not much now!
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Thackray
> 
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
> 
> 07802 243979
> 
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
> 
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
> 
> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
> 
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
> 
> sent from my BlackBerry?the most secure mobile device?via the O2 Network
> 
> 
> 	  Original Message  	
> 
> 
> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Sent: 4 November 2020 22:53
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Reply to: mibridge at mac.com
> Subject: [Tech1] Batteries
> 
> 
> I?ve received several e-mails recently telling me that regularly recharging mobile phone batteries to 100% is likely to shorten the battery life by a significant margin and that it?s better to ambition it between 50% and 80% ~ not easy if you normally charge your phone overnight. Is there any substance in this suggestion?
> 
> Mike G
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Wed Nov  4 17:41:29 2020
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 23:41:29 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Mobile phone batteries
Message-ID: <002401d6b304$0579d580$106d8080$@gmail.com>

I was told by someone at the Apple store in Regent Street a few weeks ago that batteries have a fixed number of times that they can be recharged and that with age the amount of charge which they will take drops from 100% to 80% or less. 
The battery in my iPhone 6s Plus doesn't hold it's charge as long as it did and when it gets into low battery mode, annoyingly sometimes seems to quickly drop out altogether. Having the NHS Track & Trace app turned on probably doesn't help either.
I asked if it was possible to get the battery replaced and was told it was and that it could be done in store by appointment at a cost of ?45, which for a new lease of life didn't seem too bad,
Geoff Hawkes

-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Mike Giles via Tech1
Sent: 04 November 2020 22:53
To: Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: [Tech1] Batteries

I?ve received several e-mails recently telling me that regularly recharging mobile phone batteries to 100% is likely to shorten the battery life by a significant margin and that it?s better to ambition it between 50% and 80% ~ not easy if you normally charge your phone overnight. Is there any substance in this suggestion?

Mike G
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Nov  4 18:04:16 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 00:04:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Batteries
Message-ID: <543bd49d-e5cb-821d-1f63-78f8c22a4bb0@btinternet.com>

It all depends on the type of battery. We were advised to let Ni-Cad 
batteries run-down completely before re-charging, due to a 'memory' 
effect that would alter their 'dead' point, other people told us to 
re-charge before they were completely flat! Does anyone know the truth? 
I have discovered that Li-ion batteries must not be left uncharged as 
the charger will not re-charge them from 'flat', and the only solution 
is to put a 'good' battery in parallel with them to get the charger 
working! Cheers, Dave



From davesound at btinternet.com  Wed Nov  4 18:56:16 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 00:56:16 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Batteries
In-Reply-To: <9712A818-518E-4369-8844-2089A54819B8@mac.com>
References: <9712A818-518E-4369-8844-2089A54819B8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <58ca63c1eddavesound@btinternet.com>

In article <9712A818-518E-4369-8844-2089A54819B8 at mac.com>,
   Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I?ve received several e-mails recently telling me that regularly
> recharging mobile phone batteries to 100% is likely to shorten the
> battery life by a significant margin and that it?s better to ambition it
> between 50% and 80% ~ not easy if you normally charge your phone
> overnight. Is there any substance in this suggestion?

I still use a Galaxy 4. So quite old. It is left plugged in all the time
I'm indoors. So likely 20 hours on many a day. 
Battery is still good.

Of course it depends how good the charger is. Some may well cook the
battery.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Nov  5 01:32:18 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 07:32:18 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Mobile phone batteries
In-Reply-To: <002401d6b304$0579d580$106d8080$@gmail.com>
References: <002401d6b304$0579d580$106d8080$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E5FABCE8-CED9-46CE-A1CE-42C52B0DF756@me.com>

I?ve used all types of rechargeable batteries for nearly sixty years, from silver-zinc wet cells, which conveniently had little red, amber and green plastic balls which float or sink according to the state of charge, right through to the latest types of batteries and even super capacitors.   Each of them has quirks offering advantages and disadvantages which you can adjust to.

The original NiCad batteries certainly used to deteriorate rapidly if gently topped up when only partially discharged, but worked more reliably if hammered hard by discharging them fast and then fully recharging them.  This was often attributed to  very fine cadmium threads growing between the internal plates and slowly discharging them, high discharge rates fused those threads.  NiCads could sometimes be regenerated to a certain extent by subjecting them to a few cycles of rapid discharge and recharging. Some battery chargers used to operate by initially fully discharging the battery before starting the charge. 

LiON batteries are supposed to not have that problem, which is part of the reason why they have taken over from NiCads.  However they do still have a limited lifespan which is known as the chemical age.  The chemical age of a battery depends largely on how it has been used, including factors such as state of charge and temperature. 

If you use an iPhone with operating system 13 or later, there is an option called ?Optimum Charge?, which automatically reduces the charging rate so that the battery is gently recharged, only becoming fully charged by the time you usually start using it. However it?s something to be aware of if you occasionally get up early in order to work. I did a 4am start for a long working day but left home with only a 65% charge as my phone assumed I?d be snuggled up in bed for another few hours.

My wife and I each have identical iPhones.  Mine is about four years old, hers about two and a half.  For reasons which I don?t understand, my phone shows significantly better battery health than hers although neither quite need battery a replacement yet.

The Apple battery replacement service is great.  A relative booked his in and it was ready for collection only a little more than an hour later.  Most independent battery replacement services round here would charge an additional ?30 on top of the normal replacement fee if you want same day service and of course Apple always use genuine batteries. 

Trying to get the battery changed on my TomTom Sat Nav was a much more unproductive process. The company seems to treat them as though they are beyond economic repair. DIY using a third party battery seems to be the only practical option.

Alan Taylor



> On 4 Nov 2020, at 23:41, geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I was told by someone at the Apple store in Regent Street a few weeks ago that batteries have a fixed number of times that they can be recharged and that with age the amount of charge which they will take drops from 100% to 80% or less. 
> The battery in my iPhone 6s Plus doesn't hold it's charge as long as it did and when it gets into low battery mode, annoyingly sometimes seems to quickly drop out altogether. Having the NHS Track & Trace app turned on probably doesn't help either.
> I asked if it was possible to get the battery replaced and was told it was and that it could be done in store by appointment at a cost of ?45, which for a new lease of life didn't seem too bad,
> Geoff Hawkes
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Mike Giles via Tech1
> Sent: 04 November 2020 22:53
> To: Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: [Tech1] Batteries
> 
> I?ve received several e-mails recently telling me that regularly recharging mobile phone batteries to 100% is likely to shorten the battery life by a significant margin and that it?s better to ambition it between 50% and 80% ~ not easy if you normally charge your phone overnight. Is there any substance in this suggestion?
> 
> Mike G
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From davesound at btinternet.com  Thu Nov  5 05:10:23 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 11:10:23 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Mobile phone batteries
In-Reply-To: <E5FABCE8-CED9-46CE-A1CE-42C52B0DF756@me.com>
References: <002401d6b304$0579d580$106d8080$@gmail.com>
	<E5FABCE8-CED9-46CE-A1CE-42C52B0DF756@me.com>
Message-ID: <58ca9bfc24davesound@btinternet.com>

In article <E5FABCE8-CED9-46CE-A1CE-42C52B0DF756 at me.com>,
   Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> LiON batteries are supposed to not have that problem, which is part of
> the reason why they have taken over from NiCads.  However they do still
> have a limited lifespan which is known as the chemical age.  The
> chemical age of a battery depends largely on how it has been used,
> including factors such as state of charge and temperature. 

I vape. One of my few vices left. ;-)

The device I use has a single 18650 cell - 2.5 amp hours. Device is set to
15w. Is re-charged overnight using a standard USB 5 volt source. It is
sometimes 'flat' - cuts out - by the end of the day, depending on use. 
The battery is still original, and has done I'd guess thousands of cycles,
since it's approx 10 years old.

I also have a Remington razor with a Li-Ion battery. It also is many years
old.

Assuming the device has electronics to prevent running the battery flat,
and has a decent charger, the life of decent Li-Ion is many times that of
any earlier types.  

I well remember Anton Bower and Motorala batteries being lucky to do a
couple of years, still at full capacity.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Thu Nov  5 08:43:41 2020
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer)
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 14:43:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
Message-ID: <okivli89a17xuwawj7qs1byf.1604587421004@email.android.com>

At 76 my hearing is still fine? (pardon?) despite a working lifetime wearing cans. Either I'm just incredibly lucky or it's because of something I always did, and told my trainees to do, and that is as soon as you put your cans on, turn the volume down to the minimum level consistent with hearing what you need to.?We seem to have come quite a long way from 'Americans', but hey!Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 04/11/2020  16:05  (GMT+00:00) To: David Wagner <davewagner at gmx.com>, tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Americans p{margin:0}Of course, anyone who worked on the studio floor, on "Top of the Pops", is likely to have ended up deaf in both ears - as were most of the singers we were recording. ------ Original Message ------From: "David Wagner" <davewagner at gmx.com>To: "'ROGER BUNCE'" <rogerbunce at btinternet.com>Sent: Tuesday, 3 Nov, 20 At 21:04Subject: RE: [Tech1] AmericansInteresting. I always wore my headphones on my left ear and now I?m much more deaf in my right ear. Could that be because I was mostly in the Sound Gallery with very loud Sound Supervisors? Or it might just be hereditary, my mum was the same. From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of ROGER BUNCE via Tech1Sent: 01 November 2020 13:26To: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.ukSubject: Re: [Tech1] Americans Hi Pat,In my experience, most studio Cameramen end up a bit deaf in one ear. This comes from wearing one headphone. If we had any sense, of course, we'd alternate ears on alternate days. But we never did.The other problem for Cameramen is bad backs, due to heavy lifting. I never had this problem, because I was a goody-two-shoes who always obeyed the safety instruction which said - when lifting, always bend your knees, not your back. The result, predictably, is that my back's fine, but my knees are buggered!luv, Rog. ------ Original Message ------From: "patheigham" <pat.heigham at amps.net>To: "ROGER BUNCE" <rogerbunce at btinternet.com>; "tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>Sent: Thursday, 29 Oct, 20 At 16:58Subject: RE: [Tech1] AmericansRog,Sorry to hear about the eyes. Do all ex-cameramen suffer the same, most of the sound recordists I know now wear hearing aids! I had two cataract ops done and now have better than 20-20 vision.From your and Bernie?s replies, I would say that we all seem to have followed the careers that we were happy in.I loved my time at TVC, LG, and TVT and the BBC gave me unrivalled training.But ever since seeing ?South Pacific? in the fleapit cinema in Ryde, I wanted to work in films, and on a musical. I?m delighted that I managed both.I enjoyed every programme that I worked on at TVC, and I?ve said before, made some good friends with whom I?m still in touch.Very bestPatSent from Mail for Windows 10From: ROGER BUNCESent: 29 October 2020 11:53To: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.ukSubject: RE: [Tech1] AmericansHi Pat,Apologies for the delayed reply. My ageing Cameraman's eyesight is now so fuzzy, I'm struggling to see the screen. (Fear not, I have an appointment with a laser tomorrow.) This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com  
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From waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov  5 09:34:40 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 15:34:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
In-Reply-To: <okivli89a17xuwawj7qs1byf.1604587421004@email.android.com>
References: <okivli89a17xuwawj7qs1byf.1604587421004@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB08634704D21CED81701A9854A7EE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

To bring it full circle back to Americans, then:
I?m sure Dave D will corroborate with me the fact that if you?re working with Americans, you won?t need headphones. You?ll hear them plenty loud enough without.
But if you do decide to wear them, it?s best to wear them firmly on both ears, but not plugged in!
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 5 Nov 2020, at 14:44, vernon.dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
At 76 my hearing is still fine  (pardon?) despite a working lifetime wearing cans. Either I'm just incredibly lucky or it's because of something I always did, and told my trainees to do, and that is as soon as you put your cans on, turn the volume down to the minimum level consistent with hearing what you need to.
We seem to have come quite a long way from 'Americans', but hey!

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From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Thu Nov  5 09:39:21 2020
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (David Denness)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 15:39:21 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB08634704D21CED81701A9854A7EE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <okivli89a17xuwawj7qs1byf.1604587421004@email.android.com>
	<VE1P189MB08634704D21CED81701A9854A7EE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <001401d6b389$d512f850$7f38e8f0$@gmail.com>

Ain?t that the truth!

Dave D

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: 05 November 2020 15:35
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Americans

 

To bring it full circle back to Americans, then:  

I?m sure Dave D will corroborate with me the fact that if you?re working with Americans, you won?t need headphones. You?ll hear them plenty loud enough without. 

But if you do decide to wear them, it?s best to wear them firmly on both ears, but not plugged in! 

Cheers,

Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5





On 5 Nov 2020, at 14:44, vernon.dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

? 

At 76 my hearing is still fine  (pardon?) despite a working lifetime wearing cans. Either I'm just incredibly lucky or it's because of something I always did, and told my trainees to do, and that is as soon as you put your cans on, turn the volume down to the minimum level consistent with hearing what you need to. 

We seem to have come quite a long way from 'Americans', but hey!

 

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov  5 09:41:34 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 15:41:34 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
In-Reply-To: <okivli89a17xuwawj7qs1byf.1604587421004@email.android.com>
References: <okivli89a17xuwawj7qs1byf.1604587421004@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <5fa41d36.1c69fb81.13cd7.864a@mx.google.com>

Getting back to Americans, I do feel that their country gets the President they deserve, but I would back Democracy against Republicanism!
What?s telling, is that Trump is so desperate to hang on to the White House that he?s crying ?foul? when there is no evidence!
(OK, Bernie, this is politics, but NOT UK politics!!)

I managed to obtain a DVD of ?Beyond The Fringe? which I worked upon in TVT. There is a scathing comment about America, where Alan Bennett remarks that they said: ? Give us your poor, your huddled masses ? so everyone did!?

I feel sorry for the people of small Caribbean ports when a huge floating hotel cruise ship disgorges 6,500 people into their town, but hopefully they manage to get some dollars off them!
I had a wonderful holiday voyage on a very small ship, (below) only 35 of us on board, it would normally accommodate 110. Having crossed the Indian Ocean, finished up around the Indonesian archipelago ? it was only at Lombok that we got bothered by
kids in canoes desperately trying to sell us fake Rolexes....
Here?s a pic of schoolkids, given the morning off to show us around their small island, that we were not scheduled to call at. This was because we asked to arrive at Komodo (for the dragons!) early, rather than midday when it was unbearably hot, so the skipper obligingly re-routed, and fetched up at a different island. It was great ? I had a go in a dugout canoe, and tipped over to great amusement by the locals, until I got the hang of adjusting one?s body weight against the paddle 
thrust.





Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: vernon.dyer via Tech1
Sent: 05 November 2020 14:44
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Americans

We seem to have come quite a long way from 'Americans', but hey!






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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov  5 09:46:23 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 15:46:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB08634704D21CED81701A9854A7EE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <okivli89a17xuwawj7qs1byf.1604587421004@email.android.com>
	<VE1P189MB08634704D21CED81701A9854A7EE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <5fa41e50.1c69fb81.21eb9.74b1@mx.google.com>

Love that, Nick!
A movie I worked on, had an American First Assistant director, who was so used to working his bullhorn (loudhailer) that he raised it to his mouth even when he was two feet away from whoever he was talking to!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: 05 November 2020 15:34
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Americans

To bring it full circle back to Americans, then:? 
I?m sure Dave D will corroborate with me the fact that if you?re working with Americans, you won?t need headphones. You?ll hear them plenty loud enough without. 
But if you do decide to wear them, it?s best to wear them firmly on both ears, but not plugged in! 
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5





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From davesound at btinternet.com  Thu Nov  5 10:42:51 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2020 16:42:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
In-Reply-To: <okivli89a17xuwawj7qs1byf.1604587421004@email.android.com>
References: <okivli89a17xuwawj7qs1byf.1604587421004@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <58caba6ca5davesound@btinternet.com>

In article <okivli89a17xuwawj7qs1byf.1604587421004 at email.android.com>,
   vernon.dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> At 76 my hearing is still fine  (pardon?) despite a working lifetime
> wearing cans. Either I'm just incredibly lucky or it's because of
> something I always did, and told my trainees to do, and that is as soon
> as you put your cans on, turn the volume down to the minimum level
> consistent with hearing what you need to.

Quite. I spent much of my freelance life with an SQN 4S and Beyer DT48
cans. The latter not universally popular, but I liked them for dialogue
recording. And in most circumstances had the SQN monitoring on minimum.
And was surprised when standing in for another recordist just how loud
they had them. My view was if you had the cans too loud, you'd not 'pull'
quiet dialogue enough. And spend to much time worrying about extraneous
noise.

Oddly, in a studio control room I tended to monitor much the same as
others, level wise.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From Waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov  5 15:39:42 2020
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 21:39:42 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
In-Reply-To: <5fa41e50.1c69fb81.21eb9.74b1@mx.google.com>
References: <okivli89a17xuwawj7qs1byf.1604587421004@email.android.com>
	<VE1P189MB08634704D21CED81701A9854A7EE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<5fa41e50.1c69fb81.21eb9.74b1@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB08635918EFC06E9C75254E6BA7EE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Wasn?t there a character in ?Ready When You Are Mr McGill? who did that? Or somewhere similar? Pat will remember Arnie Ross, who certainly did it - for effect.
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 5 Nov 2020, at 15:46, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:

?
Love that, Nick!
A movie I worked on, had an American First Assistant director, who was so used to working his bullhorn (loudhailer) that he raised it to his mouth even when he was two feet away from whoever he was talking to!
Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Nick Ware via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 05 November 2020 15:34
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Americans

To bring it full circle back to Americans, then:
I?m sure Dave D will corroborate with me the fact that if you?re working with Americans, you won?t need headphones. You?ll hear them plenty loud enough without.
But if you do decide to wear them, it?s best to wear them firmly on both ears, but not plugged in!
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5





________________________________
[Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>

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From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Nov  5 18:03:20 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 00:03:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] More irony
Message-ID: <EB3DF899-025A-4567-8601-A5038557A9FF@mac.com>

I am now amazed by Nigella?s latest programme title ~ ?Cook, Eat, Repeat? ~ I enjoy food, but I prefer it not to repeat!

Mike G

From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Fri Nov  6 03:04:56 2020
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 09:04:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] More irony
In-Reply-To: <EB3DF899-025A-4567-8601-A5038557A9FF@mac.com>
References: <EB3DF899-025A-4567-8601-A5038557A9FF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <1a2b3f12-02b3-7fa9-d838-7e00ad509ae2@gmail.com>

Hi,

On 06/11/2020 00:03, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
> I am now amazed by Nigella?s latest programme title ~ ?Cook, Eat, Repeat? ~ I enjoy food, but I prefer it not to repeat!

Should have read "Eats, Shoots and Leaves"

(The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation written by Lynne Truss)

-- 
Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Nov  6 04:37:13 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 10:37:13 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] More irony
In-Reply-To: <1a2b3f12-02b3-7fa9-d838-7e00ad509ae2@gmail.com>
References: <EB3DF899-025A-4567-8601-A5038557A9FF@mac.com>
	<1a2b3f12-02b3-7fa9-d838-7e00ad509ae2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ae30d6c7-767a-6328-ad83-101f17a411f8@btinternet.com>

Irony, irony, they've all got it, irony! (Infamy works better!) Cheers, Dave

On 06/11/2020 09:04, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On 06/11/2020 00:03, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
>> I am now amazed by Nigella?s latest programme title ~ ?Cook, Eat, Repeat? ~ I enjoy food, but I prefer it not to repeat!
>
> Should have read "Eats, Shoots and Leaves"
>
> (The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation written by Lynne Truss)
>
> -- 
> Best Regards
>
> Alec
>
> Alec Bray
>
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502
>
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Fri Nov  6 05:11:40 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 11:11:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB08635918EFC06E9C75254E6BA7EE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <okivli89a17xuwawj7qs1byf.1604587421004@email.android.com>
	<VE1P189MB08634704D21CED81701A9854A7EE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5fa41e50.1c69fb81.21eb9.74b1@mx.google.com>
	<VE1P189MB08635918EFC06E9C75254E6BA7EE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <f489d72a-7ae7-24c6-73a4-c684e4879dae@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Nah, you got it wrong!

It's "Ready when you are, Mr DeMille" [as in Cecil B DeMille).

A probably apocryphal tale, but good fun.

https://logosconcarne.com/2011/07/24/sideband-17-ready-when-you-are/

Chris Woolf


On 05/11/2020 21:39, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> Wasn?t there a character in ?Ready When You Are Mr McGill? who did 
> that? Or somewhere similar? Pat will remember Arnie Ross, who 
> certainly did it - for effect.
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>> On 5 Nov 2020, at 15:46, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Love that, Nick!
>>
>> A movie I worked on, had an American First Assistant director, who 
>> was so used to working his bullhorn (loudhailer) that he raised it to 
>> his mouth even when he was two feet away from whoever he was talking to!
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
>> Windows 10
>>
>> *From: *Nick Ware via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Sent: *05 November 2020 15:34
>> *To: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Americans
>>
>> To bring it full circle back to Americans, then:
>>
>> I?m sure Dave D will corroborate with me the fact that if you?re 
>> working with Americans, you won?t need headphones. You?ll hear them 
>> plenty loud enough without.
>>
>> But if you do decide to wear them, it?s best to wear them firmly on 
>> both ears, but not plugged in!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Nick.
>>
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>
>>
>


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From peter.neill at icloud.com  Fri Nov  6 05:26:48 2020
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 11:26:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
In-Reply-To: <f489d72a-7ae7-24c6-73a4-c684e4879dae@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <f489d72a-7ae7-24c6-73a4-c684e4879dae@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <D3AF0080-031F-472F-B698-84B03E662DB1@icloud.com>

Ah, but he?s right!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready_When_You_Are,_Mr._McGill

Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. 

> On 6 Nov 2020, at 11:12, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Nah, you got it wrong!
> 
> It's "Ready when you are, Mr DeMille" [as in Cecil B DeMille).
> 
> A probably apocryphal tale, but good fun. 
> 
> https://logosconcarne.com/2011/07/24/sideband-17-ready-when-you-are/
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> 
> On 05/11/2020 21:39, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>> Wasn?t there a character in ?Ready When You Are Mr McGill? who did that? Or somewhere similar? Pat will remember Arnie Ross, who certainly did it - for effect.
>> Nick.
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>> 
>>> On 5 Nov 2020, at 15:46, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> Love that, Nick!
>>> A movie I worked on, had an American First Assistant director, who was so used to working his bullhorn (loudhailer) that he raised it to his mouth even when he was two feet away from whoever he was talking to!
>>> Pat
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>  
>>> From: Nick Ware via Tech1
>>> Sent: 05 November 2020 15:34
>>> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Americans
>>>  
>>> To bring it full circle back to Americans, then: 
>>> I?m sure Dave D will corroborate with me the fact that if you?re working with Americans, you won?t need headphones. You?ll hear them plenty loud enough without.
>>> But if you do decide to wear them, it?s best to wear them firmly on both ears, but not plugged in!
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nick.
>>> 
>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 	
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Fri Nov  6 05:38:56 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 11:38:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
In-Reply-To: <D3AF0080-031F-472F-B698-84B03E662DB1@icloud.com>
References: <f489d72a-7ae7-24c6-73a4-c684e4879dae@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<D3AF0080-031F-472F-B698-84B03E662DB1@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <698d9bef-005a-091a-04bc-3147870825c3@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Amazing that that gives no hint of the origin of the phrase, even though 
it is obviously an intentional misquote from the legendary DeMille one.

There are many versions of the joke, but all based on the epic-level 
crowd scenes that DeMille used to film, all of which needed multiple 
cameras because retakes were impossible.

Chris Woolf


On 06/11/2020 11:26, Peter Neill wrote:
> Ah, but he?s right!
>
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready_When_You_Are,_Mr._McGill 
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready_When_You_Are,_Mr._McGill>
>
> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions.
>
>> On 6 Nov 2020, at 11:12, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Nah, you got it wrong!
>>
>> It's "Ready when you are, Mr DeMille" [as in Cecil B DeMille).
>>
>> A probably apocryphal tale, but good fun.
>>
>> https://logosconcarne.com/2011/07/24/sideband-17-ready-when-you-are/
>>
>> Chris Woolf
>>
>>
>> On 05/11/2020 21:39, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Wasn?t there a character in ?Ready When You Are Mr McGill? who did 
>>> that? Or somewhere similar? Pat will remember Arnie Ross, who 
>>> certainly did it - for effect.
>>> Nick.
>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>>
>>>> On 5 Nov 2020, at 15:46, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> Love that, Nick!
>>>>
>>>> A movie I worked on, had an American First Assistant director, who 
>>>> was so used to working his bullhorn (loudhailer) that he raised it 
>>>> to his mouth even when he was two feet away from whoever he was 
>>>> talking to!
>>>>
>>>> Pat
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
>>>> Windows 10
>>>>
>>>> *From: *Nick Ware via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> *Sent: *05 November 2020 15:34
>>>> *To: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Americans
>>>>
>>>> To bring it full circle back to Americans, then:
>>>>
>>>> I?m sure Dave D will corroborate with me the fact that if you?re 
>>>> working with Americans, you won?t need headphones. You?ll hear them 
>>>> plenty loud enough without.
>>>>
>>>> But if you do decide to wear them, it?s best to wear them firmly on 
>>>> both ears, but not plugged in!
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Nick.
>>>>
>>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>>>>
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


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From waresound at msn.com  Fri Nov  6 06:40:29 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 12:40:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Americans
In-Reply-To: <698d9bef-005a-091a-04bc-3147870825c3@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <f489d72a-7ae7-24c6-73a4-c684e4879dae@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<D3AF0080-031F-472F-B698-84B03E662DB1@icloud.com>,
	<698d9bef-005a-091a-04bc-3147870825c3@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863FB1E9321C523FA3DBDA0A7ED0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I did actually mean the Jack Rosenthal McGill. The film and TV industry poking fun at itself! No coincidence that McGill rhymes with DeMille. And the main character whose one and only line ends up on the cutting room floor. A true classic in my opinion.
Shame that the only complete (2003) version on Youtube is overdubbed into Russian. I wonder what the Russians made of it!
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 6 Nov 2020, at 11:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

Amazing that that gives no hint of the origin of the phrase, even though it is obviously an intentional misquote from the legendary DeMille one.

There are many versions of the joke, but all based on the epic-level crowd scenes that DeMille used to film, all of which needed multiple cameras because retakes were impossible.

Chris Woolf


On 06/11/2020 11:26, Peter Neill wrote:
Ah, but he?s right!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready_When_You_Are,_Mr._McGill

Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions.

On 6 Nov 2020, at 11:12, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk><mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

Nah, you got it wrong!

It's "Ready when you are, Mr DeMille" [as in Cecil B DeMille).

A probably apocryphal tale, but good fun.

https://logosconcarne.com/2011/07/24/sideband-17-ready-when-you-are/

Chris Woolf


On 05/11/2020 21:39, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
Wasn?t there a character in ?Ready When You Are Mr McGill? who did that? Or somewhere similar? Pat will remember Arnie Ross, who certainly did it - for effect.
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 5 Nov 2020, at 15:46, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net><mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:

?
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Fri Nov  6 08:23:09 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 14:23:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] RIP Geoffrey Palmer
Message-ID: <46E43D3E-4DE4-461E-9F4B-D77348EA7A1B@icloud.com>

One of the actors who always seems to have been there.

Obit: <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41311326>
? 
Graeme Wall




From relong at btinternet.com  Fri Nov  6 09:27:18 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 15:27:18 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] RIP Geoffrey Palmer
In-Reply-To: <46E43D3E-4DE4-461E-9F4B-D77348EA7A1B@icloud.com>
References: <46E43D3E-4DE4-461E-9F4B-D77348EA7A1B@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <0F59E73A-ED1C-4FBE-B673-658A9206A8B1@btinternet.com>

One of my favourite thesps
Always asked us for the best way to the M4
No matter where we were shooting!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 6 Nov 2020, at 14:23, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?One of the actors who always seems to have been there.
> 
> Obit: <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41311326>
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk  Fri Nov  6 10:56:38 2020
From: robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk (Robert Miles)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 16:56:38 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
Message-ID: <000401d6b45d$cb393310$61ab9930$@soundsuper.co.uk>

I'm sure many of us have either used or seen many Glensound products. Sadly
Len Davis the founder, and ex BBC graduate engineer, died last week.

 

https://www.glensound.co.uk/

 

Rob

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Nov  6 15:01:45 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 21:01:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Survey
Message-ID: <549daa23-721d-3f1f-ff23-097d868a0f68@btinternet.com>

 ?Too true!

Last month, a worldwide telephone survey was conducted by the UN.? The 
only question asked was:

"Would you please give your honest opinion about possible solutions to 
the food shortage in the rest of the world?"

The survey was a complete failure because:

In Eastern Europe they didn't know what "honest" meant.

In Western Europe they didn't know what "shortage" meant.

In Africa they didn't know what "food" meant.

In China they didn't know what "opinion" meant.

In the Middle East they didn't know what "solution" meant.

In South America they didn't know what "please" meant.

In the USA they didn't know what "the rest of the world" meant.

And in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and Great Britain everyone hung 
up as soon asthey heard the Indian accent.

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From mibridge at mac.com  Fri Nov  6 17:08:47 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 23:08:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <000401d6b45d$cb393310$61ab9930$@soundsuper.co.uk>
References: <000401d6b45d$cb393310$61ab9930$@soundsuper.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7E1EAAD1-744E-4BC3-A000-27B6FF10553B@mac.com>

What a nice chap Len was. I had significant dealings with him over a revised version of his mini sound desks ~ I think they were called simply Glensound MX6. They had a master module with six channels and two groups, as I recall, and a slave unit with ten channels, although I think other configurations were available. Then we got him to do a TV revision of the radio specified COOBE units (Commentator Operated Outside Broadcast Equipment for the benefit of non-sound bods). We called ours SOOBEs, just to be different. Prizes for the first picture person to interpret the S! 

We also got him to do us a modified version of the commentator units that were designed for the EBU for Olympics and suchlike, 

What I remember in particular of Len, was that he was extremely patient, especially in view of the fact that I was asking him to modify designs that other BBC people were already happy with, but I think he liked the process of refinement and the web-site from Rob?s link supports that impression. On one visit to Maidstone, he proudly showed off a prototype of a digital sound desk, and I wonder if that is what the Glensound website refers to as the World?s first assignable mixer, but I would have thought it was rather later than 1980 that I saw that.

Mike G


> On 6 Nov 2020, at 16:56, Robert Miles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I?m sure many of us have either used or seen many Glensound products. Sadly Len Davis the founder, and ex BBC graduate engineer, died last week.
>  
> https://www.glensound.co.uk/ <https://www.glensound.co.uk/>
>  
> Rob
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Fri Nov  6 18:32:45 2020
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 00:32:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <7E1EAAD1-744E-4BC3-A000-27B6FF10553B@mac.com>
References: <000401d6b45d$cb393310$61ab9930$@soundsuper.co.uk>
	<7E1EAAD1-744E-4BC3-A000-27B6FF10553B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <F63A8133-AD38-458A-BFC4-38087B75BFB4@btinternet.com>

Hi Mike et al,
	Would that be SABREs? Len was always helpful and would be happy to have a long chat with you over your requirements. He designed the mixer for our ?EastEnders? van which was given a tiny space to fit in. Needless to say it fitted perfectly.
Barry.



On 6 Nov 2020, at 23:08, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> What a nice chap Len was. I had significant dealings with him over a revised version of his mini sound desks ~ I think they were called simply Glensound MX6. They had a master module with six channels and two groups, as I recall, and a slave unit with ten channels, although I think other configurations were available. Then we got him to do a TV revision of the radio specified COOBE units (Commentator Operated Outside Broadcast Equipment for the benefit of non-sound bods). We called ours SOOBEs, just to be different. Prizes for the first picture person to interpret the S! 
> 
> We also got him to do us a modified version of the commentator units that were designed for the EBU for Olympics and suchlike, 
> 
> What I remember in particular of Len, was that he was extremely patient, especially in view of the fact that I was asking him to modify designs that other BBC people were already happy with, but I think he liked the process of refinement and the web-site from Rob?s link supports that impression. On one visit to Maidstone, he proudly showed off a prototype of a digital sound desk, and I wonder if that is what the Glensound website refers to as the World?s first assignable mixer, but I would have thought it was rather later than 1980 that I saw that.
> 
> Mike G
> 
> 
>> On 6 Nov 2020, at 16:56, Robert Miles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> I?m sure many of us have either used or seen many Glensound products. Sadly Len Davis the founder, and ex BBC graduate engineer, died last week.
>>  
>> https://www.glensound.co.uk/
>>  
>> Rob
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From mibridge at mac.com  Sat Nov  7 02:41:27 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 08:41:27 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
Message-ID: <6AC8E021-9A39-4CFD-BD08-D9FDF0F4E5F7@mac.com>

?Barry is quite right of course - isn?t he always? The Glensound self-operated commentator units were called SABRE - Self Actuated (Activated?) Broadcast Report Equipment, or something close to that, and they were ISDN capable. SOOBEs were the preceding generation and were an adaptation of an Alice analogue unit devised for radio OBs, which could work either 4-wire, or two-wire via a telephone balance unit. Apart from some technical and physical changes at our request, both the SOOBE and SABRE units were fitted into custom built lap-top flight cases, with removable lids and Perspex writing surfaces to make life easier for reporters at football grounds, where space in the press boxes was often at a premium. We involved the bright eyed and bushy-tailed Ralph Dellor in the design of the flight cases as he was one of the most accessible reporters at the time. He is no longer with us and there is a modest amount about him on Wikipedia  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Dellor

What a lot we did between us in our time with Aunty!

Mike G

> On 7 Nov 2020, at 00:33, Barry Bonner <barrybonner119 at btinternet.com> wrote:
> ?Hi Mike et al,
> 	Would that be SABREs? Len was always helpful and would be happy to have a long chat with you over your requirements. He designed the mixer for our ?EastEnders? van which was given a tiny space to fit in. Needless to say it fitted perfectly.
> Barry.
> 
> 
> 
> On 6 Nov 2020, at 23:08, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> What a nice chap Len was. I had significant dealings with him over a revised version of his mini sound desks ~ I think they were called simply Glensound MX6. They had a master module with six channels and two groups, as I recall, and a slave unit with ten channels, although I think other configurations were available. Then we got him to do a TV revision of the radio specified COOBE units (Commentator Operated Outside Broadcast Equipment for the benefit of non-sound bods). We called ours SOOBEs, just to be different. Prizes for the first picture person to interpret the S! 
>> 
>> We also got him to do us a modified version of the commentator units that were designed for the EBU for Olympics and suchlike, 
>> 
>> What I remember in particular of Len, was that he was extremely patient, especially in view of the fact that I was asking him to modify designs that other BBC people were already happy with, but I think he liked the process of refinement and the web-site from Rob?s link supports that impression. On one visit to Maidstone, he proudly showed off a prototype of a digital sound desk, and I wonder if that is what the Glensound website refers to as the World?s first assignable mixer, but I would have thought it was rather later than 1980 that I saw that.
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>> 
>>> On 6 Nov 2020, at 16:56, Robert Miles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I?m sure many of us have either used or seen many Glensound products. Sadly Len Davis the founder, and ex BBC graduate engineer, died last week.
>>>  
>>> https://www.glensound.co.uk/
>>>  
>>> Rob
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sat Nov  7 03:40:04 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 09:40:04 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Scary roads
Message-ID: <D71293531B9346F0BBCF4D9D1161DEFF@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

I read regularly posts from those among us who seem to have visited places that require pretty intrepid spirit. I came across this contender and wondered if anyone has ever seen the road featured? I?ve driven some hair-raising roads in the high Causses of Southern France, particularly one of the descents from the Causse M?jean (though this has long since been made vastly safer). Again, although somewhat improved safety-wise, the ascent of the Applecross Pass in Wester Ross sticks in my memory as a test of nerve. This road in the Caucasus seems to be of a different order, doubtless on a par with some roads in Bolivia I?ve seen footage of.

https://unusualplaces.org/one-of-the-most-treacherous-roads-in-georgia-the-road-to-tusheti/

Tenuous link with tech-ops but hopefully no more so than some other content, much of which I greatly enjoy.

Dave Newbitt

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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sat Nov  7 03:48:07 2020
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 09:48:07 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <6AC8E021-9A39-4CFD-BD08-D9FDF0F4E5F7@mac.com>
References: <6AC8E021-9A39-4CFD-BD08-D9FDF0F4E5F7@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5195E338CD1A49F4B186429344116A6D@Gigabyte>

I have a COOBE lead set if required!
And a Tuchal headset adaptor!

Nowadays places like I found in St Barnabus church simply have an ADSL line.

Mike

From: Mike Giles via Tech1 
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 8:41 AM
To: Barry Bonner 
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound

?Barry is quite right of course - isn?t he always? The Glensound self-operated commentator units were called SABRE - Self Actuated (Activated?) Broadcast Report Equipment, or something close to that, and they were ISDN capable. SOOBEs were the preceding generation and were an adaptation of an Alice analogue unit devised for radio OBs, which could work either 4-wire, or two-wire via a telephone balance unit. Apart from some technical and physical changes at our request, both the SOOBE and SABRE units were fitted into custom built lap-top flight cases, with removable lids and Perspex writing surfaces to make life easier for reporters at football grounds, where space in the press boxes was often at a premium. We involved the bright eyed and bushy-tailed Ralph Dellor in the design of the flight cases as he was one of the most accessible reporters at the time. He is no longer with us and there is a modest amount about him on Wikipedia  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Dellor 

What a lot we did between us in our time with Aunty!

Mike G
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From relong at btinternet.com  Sat Nov  7 04:22:02 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 10:22:02 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Scary roads
In-Reply-To: <D71293531B9346F0BBCF4D9D1161DEFF@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <D71293531B9346F0BBCF4D9D1161DEFF@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <9EACC1CA-59AB-4417-B2A7-64EC344B5B5C@btinternet.com>

When we were shooting Flight of the Condor in Chile in the early 80s the cameraman and production had a massive Suburban four wheel drive turbo blower V8  for the high Andean passes and v dodgy mining tracks.
I had a standard issue Brazilian made Beatle, air-cooled 1300 cc.
Some of the roads were very hairy indeed, as were the drivers we encountered, especially the buses and mining trucks.
In fact a a BBC crew had been recently involved in a ghastly accident in Bolivia when they vehicle was forced off the road into a deep ravine and the recordist killed.
The injured cameraman was the vehicle when it was plundered by a passing bus and its passengers after falling down the pass.
It was easily possible to drive to 15,000 feet and more in an afternoon, but oedema either in the lungs or brain was constant fear, and one of our camera assistants suffered from this badly and luckily recovered.
The Suburban didn?t like high altitude at all , my feeble Beatle sailed through it.

> On 7 Nov 2020, at 09:40, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I read regularly posts from those among us who seem to have visited places that require pretty intrepid spirit. I came across this contender and wondered if anyone has ever seen the road featured? I?ve driven some hair-raising roads in the high Causses of Southern France, particularly one of the descents from the Causse M?jean (though this has long since been made vastly safer). Again, although somewhat improved safety-wise, the ascent of the Applecross Pass in Wester Ross sticks in my memory as a test of nerve. This road in the Caucasus  seems to be of a different order, doubtless on a par with some roads in Bolivia I?ve seen footage of.
>  
> https://unusualplaces.org/one-of-the-most-treacherous-roads-in-georgia-the-road-to-tusheti/ <https://unusualplaces.org/one-of-the-most-treacherous-roads-in-georgia-the-road-to-tusheti/>
>  
> Tenuous link with tech-ops but hopefully no more so than some other content, much of which I greatly enjoy.
>  
> Dave Newbitt
>  
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Sat Nov  7 04:25:47 2020
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 10:25:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <6AC8E021-9A39-4CFD-BD08-D9FDF0F4E5F7@mac.com>
References: <6AC8E021-9A39-4CFD-BD08-D9FDF0F4E5F7@mac.com>
Message-ID: <40653EE7-C2E0-45AF-AF17-2FEA7CFE3A07@btinternet.com>

Hi Mike,
	"Always right? far from it methinks! I remember the SABRE (Self Activated Broadcast Report Equipment) ?cos ?twas me who was given the task by you to give it a name! You were probably busy playing with the VISA! Our non-Sports colleagues were frightened by all the non-standard kit we had in TC5 hence the difficulty I had in trying to persuade some of them to join us in Sydney for the Olympics! Indeed I got a few very rude replies! (Especially one sitcom person who had the onerous task of doing one recorded half-hour show per week!) In spite of Pat?s misguided comments about TVC Sound Supervisors stuck in the studios we Sports? people travelled the world. (Usually in Business Class!)   

Barry.



On 7 Nov 2020, at 08:41, Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com> wrote:

> ?Barry is quite right of course - isn?t he always? The Glensound self-operated commentator units were called SABRE - Self Actuated (Activated?) Broadcast Report Equipment, or something close to that, and they were ISDN capable. SOOBEs were the preceding generation and were an adaptation of an Alice analogue unit devised for radio OBs, which could work either 4-wire, or two-wire via a telephone balance unit. Apart from some technical and physical changes at our request, both the SOOBE and SABRE units were fitted into custom built lap-top flight cases, with removable lids and Perspex writing surfaces to make life easier for reporters at football grounds, where space in the press boxes was often at a premium. We involved the bright eyed and bushy-tailed Ralph Dellor in the design of the flight cases as he was one of the most accessible reporters at the time. He is no longer with us and there is a modest amount about him on Wikipedia  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Dellor
> 
> What a lot we did between us in our time with Aunty!
> 
> Mike G
> 
>> On 7 Nov 2020, at 00:33, Barry Bonner <barrybonner119 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Hi Mike et al,
>> 	Would that be SABREs? Len was always helpful and would be happy to have a long chat with you over your requirements. He designed the mixer for our ?EastEnders? van which was given a tiny space to fit in. Needless to say it fitted perfectly.
>> Barry.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 Nov 2020, at 23:08, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> What a nice chap Len was. I had significant dealings with him over a revised version of his mini sound desks ~ I think they were called simply Glensound MX6. They had a master module with six channels and two groups, as I recall, and a slave unit with ten channels, although I think other configurations were available. Then we got him to do a TV revision of the radio specified COOBE units (Commentator Operated Outside Broadcast Equipment for the benefit of non-sound bods). We called ours SOOBEs, just to be different. Prizes for the first picture person to interpret the S! 
>>> 
>>> We also got him to do us a modified version of the commentator units that were designed for the EBU for Olympics and suchlike, 
>>> 
>>> What I remember in particular of Len, was that he was extremely patient, especially in view of the fact that I was asking him to modify designs that other BBC people were already happy with, but I think he liked the process of refinement and the web-site from Rob?s link supports that impression. On one visit to Maidstone, he proudly showed off a prototype of a digital sound desk, and I wonder if that is what the Glensound website refers to as the World?s first assignable mixer, but I would have thought it was rather later than 1980 that I saw that.
>>> 
>>> Mike G
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 6 Nov 2020, at 16:56, Robert Miles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I?m sure many of us have either used or seen many Glensound products. Sadly Len Davis the founder, and ex BBC graduate engineer, died last week.
>>>>  
>>>> https://www.glensound.co.uk/
>>>>  
>>>> Rob
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 

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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Sat Nov  7 04:25:47 2020
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 10:25:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <6AC8E021-9A39-4CFD-BD08-D9FDF0F4E5F7@mac.com>
References: <6AC8E021-9A39-4CFD-BD08-D9FDF0F4E5F7@mac.com>
Message-ID: <40653EE7-C2E0-45AF-AF17-2FEA7CFE3A07@btinternet.com>

Hi Mike,
	"Always right? far from it methinks! I remember the SABRE (Self Activated Broadcast Report Equipment) ?cos ?twas me who was given the task by you to give it a name! You were probably busy playing with the VISA! Our non-Sports colleagues were frightened by all the non-standard kit we had in TC5 hence the difficulty I had in trying to persuade some of them to join us in Sydney for the Olympics! Indeed I got a few very rude replies! (Especially one sitcom person who had the onerous task of doing one recorded half-hour show per week!) In spite of Pat?s misguided comments about TVC Sound Supervisors stuck in the studios we Sports? people travelled the world. (Usually in Business Class!)   

Barry.



On 7 Nov 2020, at 08:41, Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com> wrote:

> ?Barry is quite right of course - isn?t he always? The Glensound self-operated commentator units were called SABRE - Self Actuated (Activated?) Broadcast Report Equipment, or something close to that, and they were ISDN capable. SOOBEs were the preceding generation and were an adaptation of an Alice analogue unit devised for radio OBs, which could work either 4-wire, or two-wire via a telephone balance unit. Apart from some technical and physical changes at our request, both the SOOBE and SABRE units were fitted into custom built lap-top flight cases, with removable lids and Perspex writing surfaces to make life easier for reporters at football grounds, where space in the press boxes was often at a premium. We involved the bright eyed and bushy-tailed Ralph Dellor in the design of the flight cases as he was one of the most accessible reporters at the time. He is no longer with us and there is a modest amount about him on Wikipedia  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Dellor
> 
> What a lot we did between us in our time with Aunty!
> 
> Mike G
> 
>> On 7 Nov 2020, at 00:33, Barry Bonner <barrybonner119 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Hi Mike et al,
>> 	Would that be SABREs? Len was always helpful and would be happy to have a long chat with you over your requirements. He designed the mixer for our ?EastEnders? van which was given a tiny space to fit in. Needless to say it fitted perfectly.
>> Barry.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 Nov 2020, at 23:08, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> What a nice chap Len was. I had significant dealings with him over a revised version of his mini sound desks ~ I think they were called simply Glensound MX6. They had a master module with six channels and two groups, as I recall, and a slave unit with ten channels, although I think other configurations were available. Then we got him to do a TV revision of the radio specified COOBE units (Commentator Operated Outside Broadcast Equipment for the benefit of non-sound bods). We called ours SOOBEs, just to be different. Prizes for the first picture person to interpret the S! 
>>> 
>>> We also got him to do us a modified version of the commentator units that were designed for the EBU for Olympics and suchlike, 
>>> 
>>> What I remember in particular of Len, was that he was extremely patient, especially in view of the fact that I was asking him to modify designs that other BBC people were already happy with, but I think he liked the process of refinement and the web-site from Rob?s link supports that impression. On one visit to Maidstone, he proudly showed off a prototype of a digital sound desk, and I wonder if that is what the Glensound website refers to as the World?s first assignable mixer, but I would have thought it was rather later than 1980 that I saw that.
>>> 
>>> Mike G
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 6 Nov 2020, at 16:56, Robert Miles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I?m sure many of us have either used or seen many Glensound products. Sadly Len Davis the founder, and ex BBC graduate engineer, died last week.
>>>>  
>>>> https://www.glensound.co.uk/
>>>>  
>>>> Rob
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Nov  7 05:20:55 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 11:20:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <40653EE7-C2E0-45AF-AF17-2FEA7CFE3A07@btinternet.com>
References: <6AC8E021-9A39-4CFD-BD08-D9FDF0F4E5F7@mac.com>
	<40653EE7-C2E0-45AF-AF17-2FEA7CFE3A07@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5fa68316.1c69fb81.65faa.1a12@mx.google.com>

Cut me some slack, Barry!
I left in 1969, so what went on after that is knowledge denied to me!
Good that you got decent class ? when working for Thames, I used to get 1st on a long flight, thanks to the intransigent union requirements. Not so when I flew back from Adelaide after the F1 GP there (BBC shoot via an independent facility). However, I had sussed that the upper cabin of the 747 was configured Economy, so got the PA to claim seats there, row 10, which was the first row after the emergency exit, so plenty of leg room, and there was a spare seat between us for the handheld Betacam.
However, I?ve never experienced the BA beds on long 1st class flights!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Barry Bonner via Tech1
Sent: 07 November 2020 10:28
To: Mike Giles
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound

Hi Mike,
	In spite of Pat?s misguided comments about TVC Sound Supervisors stuck in the studios we Sports? people travelled the world. (Usually in Business Class!) ??

Barry.





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From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Nov  7 06:46:17 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2020 12:46:17 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <5fa68316.1c69fb81.65faa.1a12@mx.google.com>
References: <6AC8E021-9A39-4CFD-BD08-D9FDF0F4E5F7@mac.com>
	<40653EE7-C2E0-45AF-AF17-2FEA7CFE3A07@btinternet.com>
	<5fa68316.1c69fb81.65faa.1a12@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <58cbac6e72davesound@btinternet.com>

In article <5fa68316.1c69fb81.65faa.1a12 at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Good that you got decent class ? when working for Thames, I used to get 1st on a long flight, thanks to the intransigent union requirements.

You an employer, then Pat? 

It's the job of a union to get the best possible conditions for their
members.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Nov  7 07:13:38 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 13:13:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <58cbac6e72davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <6AC8E021-9A39-4CFD-BD08-D9FDF0F4E5F7@mac.com>
	<40653EE7-C2E0-45AF-AF17-2FEA7CFE3A07@btinternet.com>
	<5fa68316.1c69fb81.65faa.1a12@mx.google.com>
	<58cbac6e72davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5fa69d82.1c69fb81.b71b.38c6@mx.google.com>

No, Dave, an employee!
In those days, if a train or plane journey was longer than a certain time, then first class travel was insisted upon ? something to do with being pitched into work as soon as one detrained or landed. No mention as to whether we were actually capable after the in flight champers!
Mind you, there was an unpleasant incident on an Intercity 125, which didn?t offer breakfast after Carlisle.
Happy days!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 07 November 2020 12:58
To: Barry Bonner; Mike Giles
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound

I



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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 08:57:49 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 14:57:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <5fa69d82.1c69fb81.b71b.38c6@mx.google.com>
References: <6AC8E021-9A39-4CFD-BD08-D9FDF0F4E5F7@mac.com>
	<40653EE7-C2E0-45AF-AF17-2FEA7CFE3A07@btinternet.com>
	<5fa68316.1c69fb81.65faa.1a12@mx.google.com>
	<58cbac6e72davesound@btinternet.com>
	<5fa69d82.1c69fb81.b71b.38c6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <714139c6-310c-5584-9256-4822d396188b@gmail.com>

The best ride I've had was a return trip on Thai Air A380s several years 
ago, in a business window seat pod.? Lie flat, noise cancelling 
headphones, excellent food. You didn't turn left at the door, you went 
up a whole different gangway. Far better than the BA 787 the next time.



For once, I was on my own and only had to pay for me. Cost as much as 
taking the family in steerage.

B



On 07/11/2020 13:13, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> No, Dave, an employee!
>
> In those days, if a train or plane journey was longer than a certain 
> time, then first class travel was insisted upon ? something to do with 
> being pitched into work as soon as one detrained or landed. No mention 
> as to whether we were actually capable after the in flight champers!
>
> Mind you, there was an unpleasant incident on an Intercity 125, which 
> didn?t offer breakfast after Carlisle.
>
> Happy days!
>
> Pat
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *Dave Plowman via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *07 November 2020 12:58
> *To: *Barry Bonner <mailto:barrybonner119 at btinternet.com>; Mike Giles 
> <mailto:mibridge at mac.com>
> *Cc: *Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
>
> I
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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>

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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov  7 09:31:49 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 15:31:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <714139c6-310c-5584-9256-4822d396188b@gmail.com>
References: <714139c6-310c-5584-9256-4822d396188b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <81D84831-B7F9-4F9F-94C4-3147694CD243@me.com>

I did a documentary in Los Angeles as a single camera shoot.  Myself and the cameraman tried to persuade the production team to fly us first class because it would be cheaper than paying for tons of excess baggage.  The production manager decreed that as a team of six people would be travelling, if all the baggage were aggregated between the whole team, there would be very little excess baggage to pay.

I explained that if that scheme was going to work, everybody travelling would need to meet at the airport more than three hours before the flight ( might have even been four hours ) as we needed to deal with Carnets and put our gear through the oversize baggage channel. 

Needless to say, despite insisting that everybody would meet at that time, all but one of them failed to turn up and we were given a massive bill for excess baggage, which exceeded what first class travel would have cost.

We assumed that they might have learned their lesson for the homeward flight, but the same thing happened once again, except the presenter turned up so late that she was denied boarding and had to catch a later flight, which not only meant that the excess baggage charge became greater, but they had to pay extra for her rebooked flight. 

The cameraman wanted lots of legroom on the return flight and got a seat at the front by the door, but was puzzled when I didn?t want to do that too.  He later realised why when he spent the entire journey sat next to a young mother with a fractious child who screamed and kicked for most of the flight, with another grumpy child nearby working as a sort of tag team.  Meanwhile I slept peacefully at the back.

On a different show from Denver Colorado, a fairly large crew were flown out ( gear sent separately ) and we were offered a $15 allowance for the bus from the airport to the hotel. On arrival at the airport, we noticed that you could get a stretch limo for $50, so the crew split into fives, went in the limos and saved $5 each ( if you ignore the tip, which of course you do at your peril in America ). The production team travelled on the airport bus and were surprised that we got to the hotel, had changed and were in the bar before they even arrived.  They were also a bit miffed to see the pictures of us all swanning about in stretched limos.  

After the show was over, the production team announced that they were so delighted with how well it went that instead of the airport bus, they were booking a fleet of stretched limos to take everybody back to the airport.  We knew that they had finally twigged that it was the cheaper option. 

Alan Taylor



> On 7 Nov 2020, at 14:58, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? The best ride I've had was a return trip on Thai Air A380s several years ago, in a business window seat pod.  Lie flat, noise cancelling headphones, excellent food. You didn't turn left at the door, you went up a whole different gangway game. Far better than the BA 787 the next time.
> 
> <mhealmoehnbaeghl.png>
> 
> 
> For once, I was on my own and only had to pay for me. Cost as much as taking the family in steerage.
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
> On 07/11/2020 13:13, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>> No, Dave, an employee!
>> In those days, if a train or plane journey was longer than a certain time, then first class travel was insisted upon ? something to do with being pitched into work as soon as one detrained or landed. No mention as to whether we were actually capable after the in flight champers!
>> Mind you, there was an unpleasant incident on an Intercity 125, which didn?t offer breakfast after Carlisle.
>> Happy days!
>> Pat
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
>> Sent: 07 November 2020 12:58
>> To: Barry Bonner; Mike Giles
>> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
>>  
>> I
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  	
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sat Nov  7 09:58:30 2020
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 15:58:30 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <81D84831-B7F9-4F9F-94C4-3147694CD243@me.com>
References: <714139c6-310c-5584-9256-4822d396188b@gmail.com>
	<81D84831-B7F9-4F9F-94C4-3147694CD243@me.com>
Message-ID: <3BE533BF17284C1282092C5E4DE45419@Gigabyte>

When we did a Noel Edmonds Christmas live from a Virgin 747, we did the test flight from Gatwick to Bournemouth and back with about total 12 people on board.
Pilot did  a scary 3-point turn over Bournemouth and we all nearly fell over.
On landing, I asked him if something had gone wrong requiring the sharp turn.
Got reply that ?Yes wasn?t that fun? We only get an occasional chance to try that out with an empty plane?
Still enough crew on board to make a cup of tea.

Don?t you like the nice safe rig?

Empty planes the best.

Mike

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 3:31 PM
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound

I did a documentary in Los Angeles as a single camera shoot.  Myself and the cameraman tried to persuade the production team to fly us first class because it would be cheaper than paying for tons of excess baggage.  The production manager decreed that as a team of six people would be travelling, if all the baggage were aggregated between the whole team, there would be very little excess baggage to pay.
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov  7 10:15:32 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 16:15:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <3BE533BF17284C1282092C5E4DE45419@Gigabyte>
References: <3BE533BF17284C1282092C5E4DE45419@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <62C31BB7-6FAA-4EF9-983C-128ED0DEF92D@me.com>

I hope that a 3 point turn in a 747 is a different concept to doing a 3 point turn in a Triumph Herald during my driving test ( using a Triumph Herald for a driving test was borderline cheating because it?s tight turning circle meant that you can pretty well swing round in any road ).  
The thought of turning an aircraft around using forward and reverse thrust would indeed be scary.

Alan Taylor

> On 7 Nov 2020, at 15:58, Mike Jordan <mikej at bmanor.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> When we did a Noel Edmonds Christmas live from a Virgin 747, we did the test flight from Gatwick to Bournemouth and back with about total 12 people on board.
> Pilot did  a scary 3-point turn over Bournemouth and we all nearly fell over.
> On landing, I asked him if something had gone wrong requiring the sharp turn.
> Got reply that ?Yes wasn?t that fun? We only get an occasional chance to try that out with an empty plane?
> Still enough crew on board to make a cup of tea.
>  
> Don?t you like the nice safe rig?
>  
> Empty planes the best.
>  
> Mike
>  
> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2020 3:31 PM
> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
>  
> I did a documentary in Los Angeles as a single camera shoot.  Myself and the cameraman tried to persuade the production team to fly us first class because it would be cheaper than paying for tons of excess baggage.  The production manager decreed that as a team of six people would be travelling, if all the baggage were aggregated between the whole team, there would be very little excess baggage to pay.
> <747 Christmas 1985 Tests_7.jpg>
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Nov  7 10:31:13 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 16:31:13 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <3BE533BF17284C1282092C5E4DE45419@Gigabyte>
References: <714139c6-310c-5584-9256-4822d396188b@gmail.com>
	<81D84831-B7F9-4F9F-94C4-3147694CD243@me.com>
	<3BE533BF17284C1282092C5E4DE45419@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <e7d9dbce-0e0e-2eb0-e1a4-99f82638d483@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 07/11/2020 15:58, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote:
> ....
> On landing, I asked him if something had gone wrong requiring the 
> sharp turn
> Got reply that ?Yes wasn?t that fun? We only get an occasional chance 
> to try that out with an empty plane?
>
A while back I did a flight in an empty Brymon Dash 7 doing a cross-over 
flight with Concorde in front of Plymouth Hoe. The chief test pilot then 
decided we could show off a bit over the water - gear down, landing 
lights on etc. Shipping had been cleared, which was good because I can 
remember looking ~up~ at Smeaton's Tower (100ft) as we did? pirouettes 
between Mountbatten and Drake's Island. Not sure how close the wing tip 
was to the water because I was trying not to look.

I had no idea civil aircraft could do manoeuvres like that, and was just 
grateful I hadn't had time to have any lunch beforehand. Like your guy, 
the pilot admitted that they rarely had the chance to have so much fun.

Chris Woolf



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From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Sat Nov  7 10:57:59 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 16:57:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <3BE533BF17284C1282092C5E4DE45419@Gigabyte>
References: <714139c6-310c-5584-9256-4822d396188b@gmail.com>
	<81D84831-B7F9-4F9F-94C4-3147694CD243@me.com>
	<3BE533BF17284C1282092C5E4DE45419@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <586a158e-8b5d-d56b-ad4b-3ad8bf58f106@imixmics.co.uk>

I managed a trip to New York on Concorde courtesy of Noel Edmonds Xmas 
show. We produced a few minutes of material on the way over, but weren't 
allowed to work in NY so a local crew took over. We had a quick visit to 
a shopping mall before catching another Concorde back home - via Glasgow 
where we were amalgamated with the Miami Concorde because of fog at 
Heathrow. I ended up sitting with the Bee Gees at the back of the plane.

As you can see, we enjoyed the food!

I still have a Concorde notebook given along with a pair of silver 
candlesticks which I gave to a charity shop.

John Nottage

On 07/11/2020 15:58, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote:
> When we did a Noel Edmonds Christmas live from a Virgin 747, we did the 
> test flight from Gatwick to Bournemouth and back with about total 12 
> people on board.
> Pilot did? a scary 3-point turn over Bournemouth and we all nearly fell 
> over.
> On landing, I asked him if something had gone wrong requiring the sharp 
> turn.
> Got reply that ?Yes wasn?t that fun? We only get an occasional chance to 
> try that out with an empty plane?
> Still enough crew on board to make a cup of tea.
> Don?t you like the nice safe rig?
> Empty planes the best.
> Mike
> *From:* Alan Taylor via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 07, 2020 3:31 PM
> *To:* Tech-Ops-chit-chat <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Len Davis - Glensound
> I did a documentary in Los Angeles as a single camera shoot. Myself and 
> the cameraman tried to persuade the production team to fly us first 
> class because it would be cheaper than paying for tons of excess 
> baggage. The production manager decreed that as a team of six people 
> would be travelling, if all the baggage were aggregated between the 
> whole team, there would be very little excess baggage to pay.
> 

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Nov  7 11:16:13 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 17:16:13 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Flights - was Len Davis - Glensound
In-Reply-To: <714139c6-310c-5584-9256-4822d396188b@gmail.com>
References: <6AC8E021-9A39-4CFD-BD08-D9FDF0F4E5F7@mac.com>
	<40653EE7-C2E0-45AF-AF17-2FEA7CFE3A07@btinternet.com>
	<5fa68316.1c69fb81.65faa.1a12@mx.google.com>
	<58cbac6e72davesound@btinternet.com>
	<5fa69d82.1c69fb81.b71b.38c6@mx.google.com>
	<714139c6-310c-5584-9256-4822d396188b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5fa6d65e.1c69fb81.a3f3b.4ca9@mx.google.com>

Looks wonderful, Bernie!
One flight is indelibly burnt into memory.
Job was a corporate video around the world on an United Airlines business class ticket.
Small crew, just camera, sound, director and production manager. In Hong Kong, we had eaten all over, from restaurants in Central, Victoria Island, and Kowloon to Lantau Island, where your meal is still swimming around in tanks, before selection.
The last night, however, we ate in the European style hotel ? lovely place, but I was the only one who had a sorbet between courses.
Oh Boy! Was I ill during the night.
Phoned the hotel doctor at 2 am, requesting kaolin/morphine mixture as flying to New York the following day.
?No,? he said, ?we don?t prescribe it here, else the buggers would distill the opiate from it!?. He recommended a jollop from the hotel pharmacy which seemed to be a pink Milk of Magnesia. Settled things a bit, but on the leg from HK to Tokyo, the cameraman and production manager were unhappy with the leg room ? up against the bulkhead in the first row, so said that ?We?ll make Pat the excuse and upgrade from Tokyo to New York?.
Hitting the desk, first class seats were requested. The clerk said that we wouldn?t be able to see the movie. Sod that! So re-boarding, this time to the upstairs 747 section, it transpired that the cabin hostess came from Wembley, as did our production manager, they hit it off, and she kept producing bottles of champagne. I began to feel more human and even nibbled a bit of steak!
With a short crew like we had, no-one could fall by the wayside as there?s nobody to take over.
Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

The best ride I've had was a return trip on Thai Air A380s several years ago, in a business window seat pod.? Lie flat, noise cancelling headphones, excellent food. You didn't turn left at the door, you went up a whole different gangway. Far better than the BA 787 the next time.



For once, I was on my own and only had to pay for me. Cost as much as taking the family in steerage.

B





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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat Nov  7 15:00:21 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 21:00:21 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Luck!
Message-ID: <621ce4bf-4da8-22bf-0f6c-fe7cb1a05625@btinternet.com>

Pat, it just shocks me that with so many people starving in the world 
that you could even accept this largesse! You should have gone stowage 
and donated your meals to the nearest food bank, just like we all would 
have done! Flying out to Korea for the 1988 Olympics, from Gatwick on 
Cathay Pacific, we were delayed for 4 hours due to the catering truck 
making a hole in the side of the 747 and it having to be repaired and 
then re-certificated as safe to fly! 4 hours with Chris Lewis with 
nothing to do would test most of your livers! Anyway, we arrived in HK 
having missed the connecting flight to Seoul, as you would, we were 
bumped onto the next available Thai Air flight. Although we had been in 
Business Class from Gatwick the Thai plane hadn't got enough spare seats 
there so some of us were lucky and some weren't! 'My' cameraman never 
stopped complaining about having to travel tourist whereas I had the 
real china plates, all the freebies and those lovely slit skirts! Some 
you win, some you don't! The previous day the ITV crew were diverted to 
Taiwan and sat for several hours in the plane on the runway as a China 
Air plane had run off the runway in HK! Lucky us! Cheers, Dave



From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat Nov  7 16:26:48 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 22:26:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Dementia
Message-ID: <e0c13684-4bf5-0037-6e08-4d3b30ef6de5@btinternet.com>

I don't suppose many of you watch BBC Breakfast TV and saw the item on a 
60 year old music teacher with dementia. anyway, he was challenged to 
produce a piece of music from 4 notes which he did and it was arranged 
and orchestrated by the BBC Philharmonic (socially distanced!) for 
charity. I have attached it for you. My only thought is that I wish that 
they had found a better piano for him! Cheers, Dave

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From mibridge at mac.com  Sat Nov  7 17:07:23 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 23:07:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Luck!
In-Reply-To: <621ce4bf-4da8-22bf-0f6c-fe7cb1a05625@btinternet.com>
References: <621ce4bf-4da8-22bf-0f6c-fe7cb1a05625@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <77F3F46B-6354-4110-95DB-85AEF4DA17E8@mac.com>

Yes Dave, that event had delayed our take-off and when we flew into Hong Kong the plane was still half in the water.

Mike G


> On 7 Nov 2020, at 21:00, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Pat, it just shocks me that with so many people starving in the world that you could even accept this largesse! You should have gone stowage and donated your meals to the nearest food bank, just like we all would have done! Flying out to Korea for the 1988 Olympics, from Gatwick on Cathay Pacific, we were delayed for 4 hours due to the catering truck making a hole in the side of the 747 and it having to be repaired and then re-certificated as safe to fly! 4 hours with Chris Lewis with nothing to do would test most of your livers! Anyway, we arrived in HK having missed the connecting flight to Seoul, as you would, we were bumped onto the next available Thai Air flight. Although we had been in Business Class from Gatwick the Thai plane hadn't got enough spare seats there so some of us were lucky and some weren't! 'My' cameraman never stopped complaining about having to travel tourist whereas I had the real china plates, all the freebies and those lovely slit skirts! Some you win, some you don't! The previous day the ITV crew were diverted to Taiwan and sat for several hours in the plane on the runway as a China Air plane had run off the runway in HK! Lucky us! Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sat Nov  7 17:17:12 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2020 23:17:12 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Dementia
In-Reply-To: <e0c13684-4bf5-0037-6e08-4d3b30ef6de5@btinternet.com>
References: <e0c13684-4bf5-0037-6e08-4d3b30ef6de5@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <E784A6FABEBA40F6A7670AE4F9B4510F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Actually Dave this has touched the hearts of many people as a result of the 
item being featured several times since the Breakfast TV original. One of 
the elements of all the coverage has been the instantly obvious 
extraordinary deep affection between father and son. I'm reminded of the 
equally obvious depth of relationship between Captain Tom and his daughter.

Did you know the piece has entered the charts?

Dave Newbitt.

-----Original Message----- 
From: dave.mdv via Tech1
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2020 10:26 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Dementia

I don't suppose many of you watch BBC Breakfast TV and saw the item on a
60 year old music teacher with dementia. anyway, he was challenged to
produce a piece of music from 4 notes which he did and it was arranged
and orchestrated by the BBC Philharmonic (socially distanced!) for
charity. I have attached it for you. My only thought is that I wish that
they had found a better piano for him! Cheers, Dave







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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Sat Nov  7 18:24:59 2020
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 00:24:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Luck!
In-Reply-To: <77F3F46B-6354-4110-95DB-85AEF4DA17E8@mac.com>
References: <621ce4bf-4da8-22bf-0f6c-fe7cb1a05625@btinternet.com>
	<77F3F46B-6354-4110-95DB-85AEF4DA17E8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <DAA4F6CA-F519-43AD-BBCB-783E23A30201@btinternet.com>

The Cathay Pacific service was brilliant. The landing in Hong Kong with the plane wreck still in the water a bit unnerving! Maybe left as a warning to pilots how short the runway was!
In that part of the world people?s names are written with surnames first. So it was quite understandable that the air hostess assumed I was sitting with my brother?one Barry Chaston! 
Barry.



On 7 Nov 2020, at 23:07, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Yes Dave, that event had delayed our take-off and when we flew into Hong Kong the plane was still half in the water.
> 
> Mike G
> 
> 
>> On 7 Nov 2020, at 21:00, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Pat, it just shocks me that with so many people starving in the world that you could even accept this largesse! You should have gone stowage and donated your meals to the nearest food bank, just like we all would have done! Flying out to Korea for the 1988 Olympics, from Gatwick on Cathay Pacific, we were delayed for 4 hours due to the catering truck making a hole in the side of the 747 and it having to be repaired and then re-certificated as safe to fly! 4 hours with Chris Lewis with nothing to do would test most of your livers! Anyway, we arrived in HK having missed the connecting flight to Seoul, as you would, we were bumped onto the next available Thai Air flight. Although we had been in Business Class from Gatwick the Thai plane hadn't got enough spare seats there so some of us were lucky and some weren't! 'My' cameraman never stopped complaining about having to travel tourist whereas I had the real china plates, all the freebies and those lovely slit skirts! Some you win, som
> e you don't! The previous day the ITV crew were diverted to Taiwan and sat for several hours in the plane on the runway as a China Air plane had run off the runway in HK! Lucky us! Cheers, Dave
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
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From barry-wilkinson at sky.com  Sat Nov  7 18:54:40 2020
From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 00:54:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] One upmanship
References: <7E5EF1AA-900A-480C-AE8E-2EA452157256.ref@sky.com>
Message-ID: <7E5EF1AA-900A-480C-AE8E-2EA452157256@sky.com>

I remember my early days at Granada News Lancaster ( after leaving BBC Manchester) when there seemed to be no budget limits. We were asked to get on a helicopter early from a hotel near the M6 at Lancaster to fly to Sellafield as Michael Heseltine was opening something new as I remember , we had to get back quickly to get footage on the lunchtime news. Just four seats, so just enough space for pilot, Bob Smithies the reporter, Dave Brown the sound man and me . We had to leave the spark behind. ( Remember three man crews on TV News?)
The helicopter was massive and the memory that remains is that of us piling out of this large helicopter when Mr Heseltine arrived by helicopter as well. His was about half the size of ours and I recall jealous looks from him as we started the job.
Border TV arrived in an ancient Volvo ( and it was technically their regional patch)
So maybe size does matter?

Sent from my iPad


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat Nov  7 19:24:09 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 01:24:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another fly-away story
Message-ID: <cb583500-ae87-77f8-6a4f-4c35a7d8995d@btinternet.com>

Leaving LHR on the way to LA for the 1984 Olympics (because no-one else 
wanted to go!) I was seated next to Huw Jones, a sports director. As we 
flew over Twickenham he said that champagne was in order and so it went 
on for 11 hours! Being in business class the cockpit was close by and 
the captain joined us for a lot of the time as the auto-pilot took over 
the boring bits! He asked if anyone would like to sit in the 4th. seat 
in the cockpit as we approached LA. I manfully volunteered and sat in 
the 'jump' seat for the last hour of the flight. What amazed me was that 
I thought that they had been there before but the captain and co-pilot 
were looking out of the windows and comparing it with their maps to see 
where we were! On approach to LAX they had a separate map book of all 
the runways and taxiways to get us to the terminal docking place! When 
we went to Japan, I had arranged the same sort of deal to sit in the 
cockpit, but after 11 hours of BBC help-yourself booze, while the rest 
of the plane slept, I fell asleep and didn't actually manage to do it. I 
woke after we had landed in Tokyo and the upper deck was empty and I 
couldn't see to go down the spiral staircase! I realised that my specs 
were missing and? had to go back upstairs to find them under my seat! 
Landing in LA we were met by Bob Duncan with a BBC mini-bus to take us 
to the Sheridan Townhouse Hotel on Wiltshire Boulevard. He told us that 
we were all invited to a BBC reception that night! When I got to my 
bedroom there was an A4 sheet of paper from the BBC medical advisor 
about not drinking fizzy drinks at high altitude!!!! Too late! Anyway, 
only one 'star' turned up for the party but I have never seen such a 
huge 'baron of beef' in my life. Needless to say we were all knackered 
the next day. The highlight of that trip was Alec Weeks calling Huw 
Jones a c*nt for giving the pass to the swimming pool to the wrong 
person. The American's couldn't believe it! The final fireworks display 
went on for 40 minutes and a BBC News reporter trying to send his copy 
back to BH said it reminded him of Hanoi in the 70's! Cheers, Dave



From doug at puddifoot.me  Sun Nov  8 03:30:47 2020
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot)
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2020 09:30:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] One upmanship
Message-ID: <l7gfv3wy1rc8v2yn5apv4nkq.1604827508998@email.android.com>

I spent two weeks in Russia filming stories for BBC Business Breakfast. We were in Vladivostok and needed to get eighty miles north to a rail terminal. There was not enough time to go by road, so our fixed arranged for the army to fly us there. They turned up in a large troop carrying helicopter with room for forty. It cost us $25.
Doug

On 8 November 2020, at 00:54, B Wilkinson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

I remember my early days at Granada News Lancaster ( after leaving BBC Manchester) when there seemed to be no budget limits. We were asked to get on a helicopter early from a hotel near the M6 at Lancaster to fly to Sellafield as Michael Heseltine was opening something new as I remember , we had to get back quickly to get footage on the lunchtime news. Just four seats, so just enough space for pilot, Bob Smithies the reporter, Dave Brown the sound man and me . We had to leave the spark behind. ( Remember three man crews on TV News?)
The helicopter was massive and the memory that remains is that of us piling out of this large helicopter when Mr Heseltine arrived by helicopter as well. His was about half the size of ours and I recall jealous looks from him as we started the job.
Border TV arrived in an ancient Volvo ( and it was technically their regional patch)
So maybe size does matter?

Sent from my iPad

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From doug at puddifoot.me  Sun Nov  8 04:49:09 2020
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Puddifoot(Doug))
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 10:49:09 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another fly-away story
In-Reply-To: <cb583500-ae87-77f8-6a4f-4c35a7d8995d@btinternet.com>
References: <cb583500-ae87-77f8-6a4f-4c35a7d8995d@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <BC66AA92875B4D958F5F31EFFFD247D2@NewOffice>


I once had a day trip to New York, on Concorde. Courtesy of BA to mark the 
tenth anniversary of it coming into passenger service. We had to be at HR at 
six in the morning since the gear had to go through customs with a carnet. 
The plane was only two thirds full, but the captain, who was also chief 
executive of Concorde division, wanted to make it look packed. So put all 
the passengers into the front cabin, and we had the entire rear section to 
our selves. The food looked great, but we spent most of the time filming, so 
didn't get much of it. We had asked if we could film in the cockpit, but 
were told that was totally impossible.  We landed at JFK, reached the end of 
the runway, the captain put on the brakes on, and had a hydraulics failure. 
We were two miles from the terminal, and unable to move. A tug had to come 
all the way from the terminal to tow us back. It took almost as long to get 
to the terminal as it had to get from London.
Concorde normally had quite a short turn around before the return flight, 
and we were due to film a piece to camera from the runway as it took off 
behind the reporter, the wonderful Glyn Worsnip. However, we had to wait 
four hours for the repairs before it could leave. Filming finished for the 
day we arrived at our hotel early evening, and BA insisted on taking us out 
for meal.
We arrived back at our hotel at eleven pm US time having got up at four am 
UK time, and knowing we had to be back at JFK at six am to meet the only 
customs shift that could deal with our carnet. When we arrived for the 
flight, the captain  said that if we forgot to mention the "technical 
problems" in the report, we could in fact film in the cockpit. They had 
flown a flight engineer out from London overnight just to look after me. So 
I was actually in the cockpit from fifteen minutes before take-off to thirty 
minutes into the flight. One of the vary rare experiences we in this 
industry are lucky to have. When I finally reached home I had only had four 
hours sleep in forty eight, but would not have missed it.
At the time BA had an offer of a free top of the range Filofax (remember 
them) if you did an enormous number if miles. A return flight on Concorde, 
around ?6000 at the time, also qualified. All you had to do was send the 
boarding cards. Result. Also every passenger on a flight was given a 
chrystal glass ornament to mark the tenth anniversary. So I have two of 
those.

Doug 


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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sun Nov  8 05:05:09 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 11:05:09 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another fly-away story
In-Reply-To: <BC66AA92875B4D958F5F31EFFFD247D2@NewOffice>
References: <cb583500-ae87-77f8-6a4f-4c35a7d8995d@btinternet.com>
	<BC66AA92875B4D958F5F31EFFFD247D2@NewOffice>
Message-ID: <6A5AF148BBE041C387BAEF9ECD97DCAD@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

That's a brilliant anecdote Doug and a fascinating account of what must rank 
as an absolutely unique experience. Good for you!

Dave Newbitt.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Puddifoot(Doug) via Tech1
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 10:49 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Another fly-away story


I once had a day trip to New York, on Concorde. Courtesy of BA to mark the
tenth anniversary of it coming into passenger service. We had to be at HR at
six in the morning since the gear had to go through customs with a carnet.
The plane was only two thirds full, but the captain, who was also chief
executive of Concorde division, wanted to make it look packed. So put all
the passengers into the front cabin, and we had the entire rear section to
our selves. The food looked great, but we spent most of the time filming, so
didn't get much of it. We had asked if we could film in the cockpit, but
were told that was totally impossible.  We landed at JFK, reached the end of
the runway, the captain put on the brakes on, and had a hydraulics failure.
We were two miles from the terminal, and unable to move. A tug had to come
all the way from the terminal to tow us back. It took almost as long to get
to the terminal as it had to get from London.
Concorde normally had quite a short turn around before the return flight,
and we were due to film a piece to camera from the runway as it took off
behind the reporter, the wonderful Glyn Worsnip. However, we had to wait
four hours for the repairs before it could leave. Filming finished for the
day we arrived at our hotel early evening, and BA insisted on taking us out
for meal.
We arrived back at our hotel at eleven pm US time having got up at four am
UK time, and knowing we had to be back at JFK at six am to meet the only
customs shift that could deal with our carnet. When we arrived for the
flight, the captain  said that if we forgot to mention the "technical
problems" in the report, we could in fact film in the cockpit. They had
flown a flight engineer out from London overnight just to look after me. So
I was actually in the cockpit from fifteen minutes before take-off to thirty
minutes into the flight. One of the vary rare experiences we in this
industry are lucky to have. When I finally reached home I had only had four
hours sleep in forty eight, but would not have missed it.
At the time BA had an offer of a free top of the range Filofax (remember
them) if you did an enormous number if miles. A return flight on Concorde,
around ?6000 at the time, also qualified. All you had to do was send the
boarding cards. Result. Also every passenger on a flight was given a
chrystal glass ornament to mark the tenth anniversary. So I have two of
those.

Doug


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From waresound at msn.com  Sun Nov  8 05:20:47 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 11:20:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another fly-away story
In-Reply-To: <BC66AA92875B4D958F5F31EFFFD247D2@NewOffice>
References: <cb583500-ae87-77f8-6a4f-4c35a7d8995d@btinternet.com>,
	<BC66AA92875B4D958F5F31EFFFD247D2@NewOffice>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863E833AD7296EF33D3A011A7EB0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Two interesting things in this story.......
I never got to fly on Concorde, but did work over several months on a documentary about its design and development up to the time of 002?s maiden flight. On that flight, the whole fuselage was so full of computer equipment that there was no room for us and our 35mm camera gear, so we flew alongside in a DC10.
Moving all the passengers forward was probably because weight distribution was crucial in Concorde in order to stop it going into an uncontrollable climb as it burnt off fuel. An elderly local Churchwarden friend of mine led the team who developed an automated system whereby fuel was constantly moved around the aircraft during flight to trim balance, etc. This was the secret that the Russians never got hold of and why Concordski crashed in rather spectacular fashion.
And..... I?m wondering if you might have unwittingly been on the flight back to Heathrow that had to declare a fuel emergency, and ran out of fuel as it touched down. It had been refuelled in New York in US gallons which are smaller than UK gallons. A story that was never to my knowledge made public at the time. No fuel = no hydraulics!
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 8 Nov 2020, at 10:49, Puddifoot(Doug) via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I once had a day trip to New York, on Concorde. Courtesy of BA to mark the tenth anniversary of it coming into passenger service. We had to be at HR at six in the morning since the gear had to go through customs with a carnet. The plane was only two thirds full, but the captain, who was also chief executive of Concorde division, wanted to make it look packed. So put all the passengers into the front cabin, and we had the entire rear section to our selves. The food looked great, but we spent most of the time filming, so didn't get much of it. We had asked if we could film in the cockpit, but were told that was totally impossible.  We landed at JFK, reached the end of the runway, the captain put on the brakes on, and had a hydraulics failure. We were two miles from the terminal, and unable to move. A tug had to come all the way from the terminal to tow us back. It took almost as long to get to the terminal as it had to get from London.
> Concorde normally had quite a short turn around before the return flight, and we were due to film a piece to camera from the runway as it took off behind the reporter, the wonderful Glyn Worsnip. However, we had to wait four hours for the repairs before it could leave. Filming finished for the day we arrived at our hotel early evening, and BA insisted on taking us out for meal.
> We arrived back at our hotel at eleven pm US time having got up at four am UK time, and knowing we had to be back at JFK at six am to meet the only customs shift that could deal with our carnet. When we arrived for the flight, the captain  said that if we forgot to mention the "technical problems" in the report, we could in fact film in the cockpit. They had flown a flight engineer out from London overnight just to look after me. So I was actually in the cockpit from fifteen minutes before take-off to thirty minutes into the flight. One of the vary rare experiences we in this industry are lucky to have. When I finally reached home I had only had four hours sleep in forty eight, but would not have missed it.
> At the time BA had an offer of a free top of the range Filofax (remember them) if you did an enormous number if miles. A return flight on Concorde, around ?6000 at the time, also qualified. All you had to do was send the boarding cards. Result. Also every passenger on a flight was given a chrystal glass ornament to mark the tenth anniversary. So I have two of those.
> 
> Doug 
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
> -- 
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Nov  8 06:12:30 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 12:12:30 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another fly-away story
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863E833AD7296EF33D3A011A7EB0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <cb583500-ae87-77f8-6a4f-4c35a7d8995d@btinternet.com>
	<BC66AA92875B4D958F5F31EFFFD247D2@NewOffice>
	<VE1P189MB0863E833AD7296EF33D3A011A7EB0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <e2fb91e9-c4a3-e54d-0a3f-c9b334a21006@btinternet.com>

I flew in Concorde while making the Noel Edmonds Christmas Show! The 
story was that a group of deserving people were invited to a lecture and 
a close up look at Concorde at LHR. They were seated in a hanger for the 
lecture and at the end of which Concorde's nose poked through the 
curtain behind the lecturer. The people were then informed that they 
were actually going to fly in it! We were all installed at the rear of 
the cabin, I was next to the bulkhead with the Mach meter on it. The 
captain explained to us that the plane was only a third full and had 
only a third normal fuel load but the take-off speed had to be the same 
as usual! He suggested that I timed it! It was less than 30 seconds from 
starting to roll to lift off! I couldn't lean forward in my seat and was 
pinned against the seat back. After take-off he throttled back and it 
was like zero gravity. We flew to Clacton and turned back. We were still 
doing interviews as? we were on final approach! We then landed and 
taxied to a pre-arranged spot where lights etc. had been rigged. We were 
then served a light lunch and given the usual goodies. Next, the people 
in the back with us were told that their relatives from Australia etc. 
were in the front of the plane and they were all brought through to meet 
each other - tears flowed! The captain said he was disappointed that 
production hadn't asked to go supersonic! Duh! Another day Concorde took 
another deserving family to New York and back but not me. Noel told me 
later that he was really annoyed that the family never even said 'Thank 
you' for the trip! Cheers, Dave.

On 08/11/2020 11:20, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> Two interesting things in this story.......
> I never got to fly on Concorde, but did work over several months on a documentary about its design and development up to the time of 002?s maiden flight. On that flight, the whole fuselage was so full of computer equipment that there was no room for us and our 35mm camera gear, so we flew alongside in a DC10.
> Moving all the passengers forward was probably because weight distribution was crucial in Concorde in order to stop it going into an uncontrollable climb as it burnt off fuel. An elderly local Churchwarden friend of mine led the team who developed an automated system whereby fuel was constantly moved around the aircraft during flight to trim balance, etc. This was the secret that the Russians never got hold of and why Concordski crashed in rather spectacular fashion.
> And..... I?m wondering if you might have unwittingly been on the flight back to Heathrow that had to declare a fuel emergency, and ran out of fuel as it touched down. It had been refuelled in New York in US gallons which are smaller than UK gallons. A story that was never to my knowledge made public at the time. No fuel = no hydraulics!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>> On 8 Nov 2020, at 10:49, Puddifoot(Doug) via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> I once had a day trip to New York, on Concorde. Courtesy of BA to mark the tenth anniversary of it coming into passenger service. We had to be at HR at six in the morning since the gear had to go through customs with a carnet. The plane was only two thirds full, but the captain, who was also chief executive of Concorde division, wanted to make it look packed. So put all the passengers into the front cabin, and we had the entire rear section to our selves. The food looked great, but we spent most of the time filming, so didn't get much of it. We had asked if we could film in the cockpit, but were told that was totally impossible.  We landed at JFK, reached the end of the runway, the captain put on the brakes on, and had a hydraulics failure. We were two miles from the terminal, and unable to move. A tug had to come all the way from the terminal to tow us back. It took almost as long to get to the terminal as it had to get from London.
>> Concorde normally had quite a short turn around before the return flight, and we were due to film a piece to camera from the runway as it took off behind the reporter, the wonderful Glyn Worsnip. However, we had to wait four hours for the repairs before it could leave. Filming finished for the day we arrived at our hotel early evening, and BA insisted on taking us out for meal.
>> We arrived back at our hotel at eleven pm US time having got up at four am UK time, and knowing we had to be back at JFK at six am to meet the only customs shift that could deal with our carnet. When we arrived for the flight, the captain  said that if we forgot to mention the "technical problems" in the report, we could in fact film in the cockpit. They had flown a flight engineer out from London overnight just to look after me. So I was actually in the cockpit from fifteen minutes before take-off to thirty minutes into the flight. One of the vary rare experiences we in this industry are lucky to have. When I finally reached home I had only had four hours sleep in forty eight, but would not have missed it.
>> At the time BA had an offer of a free top of the range Filofax (remember them) if you did an enormous number if miles. A return flight on Concorde, around ?6000 at the time, also qualified. All you had to do was send the boarding cards. Result. Also every passenger on a flight was given a chrystal glass ornament to mark the tenth anniversary. So I have two of those.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> -- 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Nov  8 07:21:29 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 13:21:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another fly-away story
In-Reply-To: <e2fb91e9-c4a3-e54d-0a3f-c9b334a21006@btinternet.com>
References: <e2fb91e9-c4a3-e54d-0a3f-c9b334a21006@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <AB2D48B8-577E-4FBD-95B5-577076291B73@me.com>

We flew in a much less glamorous aircraft, a small twin engined Cessna which had been chartered as a BBC runabout ( flyabout ?) during the 1982 World Cup in Spain.  

Flying from Bilbao to Madrid, it was our ENG crew, together with  John Phillips the director, the P.A. Janet Johnson, and our pundit, Bobby Charlton.  Being a small aircraft you sit in the same space as the pilot and can see and hear everything that?s going on.  We were flying over a mountain range and it got very choppy. The plane was violently bumping around in the turbulent air and after one particularly loud bump, the aircraft shuddered and at that instant, a loud buzzer and warning lamp came on in the cockpit.

I don?t need to remind you that Bobby Charlton survived the Munich air disaster and probably has a better excuse than most for being a nervous flyer.  He was ashen faced when all this mayhem started and obviously it brought back horrific memories for him.  Fortunately there was no cause for concern. The pilot didn?t imagine how Bobby migyt react and it was only a minute or two later that he thought it worth explaining that extreme turbulence is par for the course in those regions and that the buzzer and warning light were nothing more than an unfortunately badly timed reminder to change frequency on his radio so that he could communicate with Madrid control tower.

Incidentally, making our final approach to Madrid, we were nicely lined up with the runway and had a very clear view.  We saw an enormous airliner which had been stationary on the taxiway suddenly roll forward, swing onto our runway right in front of us and take off.  We were alarmed to see it, Bobby was absolutely horrified, but the pilot assured us that it was nothing to worry about.  We were approaching at such a low speed that the airliner would be long gone by the time we reached the runway.

Once we landed, Bobby decided that he needed a stiff drink. I think he deserved it.

Alan Taylor
 

> On 8 Nov 2020, at 12:12, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I flew in Concorde while making the Noel Edmonds Christmas Show! The story was that a group of deserving people were invited to a lecture and a close up look at Concorde at LHR. They were seated in a hanger for the lecture and at the end of which Concorde's nose poked through the curtain behind the lecturer. The people were then informed that they were actually going to fly in it! We were all installed at the rear of the cabin, I was next to the bulkhead with the Mach meter on it. The captain explained to us that the plane was only a third full and had only a third normal fuel load but the take-off speed had to be the same as usual! He suggested that I timed it! It was less than 30 seconds from starting to roll to lift off! I couldn't lean forward in my seat and was pinned against the seat back. After take-off he throttled back and it was like zero gravity. We flew to Clacton and turned back. We were still doing interviews as  we were on final approach! We then landed and taxied to a pre-arranged spot where lights etc. had been rigged. We were then served a light lunch and given the usual goodies. Next, the people in the back with us were told that their relatives from Australia etc. were in the front of the plane and they were all brought through to meet each other - tears flowed! The captain said he was disappointed that production hadn't asked to go supersonic! Duh! Another day Concorde took another deserving family to New York and back but not me. Noel told me later that he was really annoyed that the family never even said 'Thank you' for the trip! Cheers, Dave.
> 
>> On 08/11/2020 11:20, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>> Two interesting things in this story.......
>> I never got to fly on Concorde, but did work over several months on a documentary about its design and development up to the time of 002?s maiden flight. On that flight, the whole fuselage was so full of computer equipment that there was no room for us and our 35mm camera gear, so we flew alongside in a DC10.
>> Moving all the passengers forward was probably because weight distribution was crucial in Concorde in order to stop it going into an uncontrollable climb as it burnt off fuel. An elderly local Churchwarden friend of mine led the team who developed an automated system whereby fuel was constantly moved around the aircraft during flight to trim balance, etc. This was the secret that the Russians never got hold of and why Concordski crashed in rather spectacular fashion.
>> And..... I?m wondering if you might have unwittingly been on the flight back to Heathrow that had to declare a fuel emergency, and ran out of fuel as it touched down. It had been refuelled in New York in US gallons which are smaller than UK gallons. A story that was never to my knowledge made public at the time. No fuel = no hydraulics!
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>> 
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>> 
>>>> On 8 Nov 2020, at 10:49, Puddifoot(Doug) via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> I once had a day trip to New York, on Concorde. Courtesy of BA to mark the tenth anniversary of it coming into passenger service. We had to be at HR at six in the morning since the gear had to go through customs with a carnet. The plane was only two thirds full, but the captain, who was also chief executive of Concorde division, wanted to make it look packed. So put all the passengers into the front cabin, and we had the entire rear section to our selves. The food looked great, but we spent most of the time filming, so didn't get much of it. We had asked if we could film in the cockpit, but were told that was totally impossible.  We landed at JFK, reached the end of the runway, the captain put on the brakes on, and had a hydraulics failure. We were two miles from the terminal, and unable to move. A tug had to come all the way from the terminal to tow us back. It took almost as long to get to the terminal as it had to get from London.
>>> Concorde normally had quite a short turn around before the return flight, and we were due to film a piece to camera from the runway as it took off behind the reporter, the wonderful Glyn Worsnip. However, we had to wait four hours for the repairs before it could leave. Filming finished for the day we arrived at our hotel early evening, and BA insisted on taking us out for meal.
>>> We arrived back at our hotel at eleven pm US time having got up at four am UK time, and knowing we had to be back at JFK at six am to meet the only customs shift that could deal with our carnet. When we arrived for the flight, the captain  said that if we forgot to mention the "technical problems" in the report, we could in fact film in the cockpit. They had flown a flight engineer out from London overnight just to look after me. So I was actually in the cockpit from fifteen minutes before take-off to thirty minutes into the flight. One of the vary rare experiences we in this industry are lucky to have. When I finally reached home I had only had four hours sleep in forty eight, but would not have missed it.
>>> At the time BA had an offer of a free top of the range Filofax (remember them) if you did an enormous number if miles. A return flight on Concorde, around ?6000 at the time, also qualified. All you had to do was send the boarding cards. Result. Also every passenger on a flight was given a chrystal glass ornament to mark the tenth anniversary. So I have two of those.
>>> 
>>> Doug
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Nov  8 08:37:24 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 14:37:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another fly-away story
In-Reply-To: <AB2D48B8-577E-4FBD-95B5-577076291B73@me.com>
References: <e2fb91e9-c4a3-e54d-0a3f-c9b334a21006@btinternet.com>
	<AB2D48B8-577E-4FBD-95B5-577076291B73@me.com>
Message-ID: <b1a2e982-f1cd-468f-722c-22679ad6441b@gmail.com>

I was approaching Bristol once in a Cessna 172 and was told "Please keep 
your speed up, there's a 737 behind you". " I said "This thing lands at 
65 knots, and that's it". I don't know whether the 737 had to go round, 
but they shouldn't have let him get so close.

B



On 08/11/2020 13:21, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> We flew in a much less glamorous aircraft, a small twin engined Cessna which had been chartered as a BBC runabout ( flyabout ?) during the 1982 World Cup in Spain.
>
> Flying from Bilbao to Madrid, it was our ENG crew, together with  John Phillips the director, the P.A. Janet Johnson, and our pundit, Bobby Charlton.  Being a small aircraft you sit in the same space as the pilot and can see and hear everything that?s going on.  We were flying over a mountain range and it got very choppy. The plane was violently bumping around in the turbulent air and after one particularly loud bump, the aircraft shuddered and at that instant, a loud buzzer and warning lamp came on in the cockpit.
>
> I don?t need to remind you that Bobby Charlton survived the Munich air disaster and probably has a better excuse than most for being a nervous flyer.  He was ashen faced when all this mayhem started and obviously it brought back horrific memories for him.  Fortunately there was no cause for concern. The pilot didn?t imagine how Bobby migyt react and it was only a minute or two later that he thought it worth explaining that extreme turbulence is par for the course in those regions and that the buzzer and warning light were nothing more than an unfortunately badly timed reminder to change frequency on his radio so that he could communicate with Madrid control tower.
>
> Incidentally, making our final approach to Madrid, we were nicely lined up with the runway and had a very clear view.  We saw an enormous airliner which had been stationary on the taxiway suddenly roll forward, swing onto our runway right in front of us and take off.  We were alarmed to see it, Bobby was absolutely horrified, but the pilot assured us that it was nothing to worry about.  We were approaching at such a low speed that the airliner would be long gone by the time we reached the runway.
>
> Once we landed, Bobby decided that he needed a stiff drink. I think he deserved it.
>
> Alan Taylor
>   
>
>> On 8 Nov 2020, at 12:12, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?I flew in Concorde while making the Noel Edmonds Christmas Show! The story was that a group of deserving people were invited to a lecture and a close up look at Concorde at LHR. They were seated in a hanger for the lecture and at the end of which Concorde's nose poked through the curtain behind the lecturer. The people were then informed that they were actually going to fly in it! We were all installed at the rear of the cabin, I was next to the bulkhead with the Mach meter on it. The captain explained to us that the plane was only a third full and had only a third normal fuel load but the take-off speed had to be the same as usual! He suggested that I timed it! It was less than 30 seconds from starting to roll to lift off! I couldn't lean forward in my seat and was pinned against the seat back. After take-off he throttled back and it was like zero gravity. We flew to Clacton and turned back. We were still doing interviews as  we were on final approach! We then landed and taxied to a pre-arranged spot where lights etc. had been rigged. We were then served a light lunch and given the usual goodies. Next, the people in the back with us were told that their relatives from Australia etc. were in the front of the plane and they were all brought through to meet each other - tears flowed! The captain said he was disappointed that production hadn't asked to go supersonic! Duh! Another day Concorde took another deserving family to New York and back but not me. Noel told me later that he was really annoyed that the family never even said 'Thank you' for the trip! Cheers, Dave.
>>
>>> On 08/11/2020 11:20, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Two interesting things in this story.......
>>> I never got to fly on Concorde, but did work over several months on a documentary about its design and development up to the time of 002?s maiden flight. On that flight, the whole fuselage was so full of computer equipment that there was no room for us and our 35mm camera gear, so we flew alongside in a DC10.
>>> Moving all the passengers forward was probably because weight distribution was crucial in Concorde in order to stop it going into an uncontrollable climb as it burnt off fuel. An elderly local Churchwarden friend of mine led the team who developed an automated system whereby fuel was constantly moved around the aircraft during flight to trim balance, etc. This was the secret that the Russians never got hold of and why Concordski crashed in rather spectacular fashion.
>>> And..... I?m wondering if you might have unwittingly been on the flight back to Heathrow that had to declare a fuel emergency, and ran out of fuel as it touched down. It had been refuelled in New York in US gallons which are smaller than UK gallons. A story that was never to my knowledge made public at the time. No fuel = no hydraulics!
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nick.
>>>
>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>>
>>>>> On 8 Nov 2020, at 10:49, Puddifoot(Doug) via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> ?
>>>> I once had a day trip to New York, on Concorde. Courtesy of BA to mark the tenth anniversary of it coming into passenger service. We had to be at HR at six in the morning since the gear had to go through customs with a carnet. The plane was only two thirds full, but the captain, who was also chief executive of Concorde division, wanted to make it look packed. So put all the passengers into the front cabin, and we had the entire rear section to our selves. The food looked great, but we spent most of the time filming, so didn't get much of it. We had asked if we could film in the cockpit, but were told that was totally impossible.  We landed at JFK, reached the end of the runway, the captain put on the brakes on, and had a hydraulics failure. We were two miles from the terminal, and unable to move. A tug had to come all the way from the terminal to tow us back. It took almost as long to get to the terminal as it had to get from London.
>>>> Concorde normally had quite a short turn around before the return flight, and we were due to film a piece to camera from the runway as it took off behind the reporter, the wonderful Glyn Worsnip. However, we had to wait four hours for the repairs before it could leave. Filming finished for the day we arrived at our hotel early evening, and BA insisted on taking us out for meal.
>>>> We arrived back at our hotel at eleven pm US time having got up at four am UK time, and knowing we had to be back at JFK at six am to meet the only customs shift that could deal with our carnet. When we arrived for the flight, the captain  said that if we forgot to mention the "technical problems" in the report, we could in fact film in the cockpit. They had flown a flight engineer out from London overnight just to look after me. So I was actually in the cockpit from fifteen minutes before take-off to thirty minutes into the flight. One of the vary rare experiences we in this industry are lucky to have. When I finally reached home I had only had four hours sleep in forty eight, but would not have missed it.
>>>> At the time BA had an offer of a free top of the range Filofax (remember them) if you did an enormous number if miles. A return flight on Concorde, around ?6000 at the time, also qualified. All you had to do was send the boarding cards. Result. Also every passenger on a flight was given a chrystal glass ornament to mark the tenth anniversary. So I have two of those.
>>>>
>>>> Doug
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From doug at puddifoot.me  Sun Nov  8 08:41:09 2020
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Puddifoot(Doug))
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 14:41:09 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another fly-away story
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863E833AD7296EF33D3A011A7EB0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <cb583500-ae87-77f8-6a4f-4c35a7d8995d@btinternet.com>,
	<BC66AA92875B4D958F5F31EFFFD247D2@NewOffice>
	<VE1P189MB0863E833AD7296EF33D3A011A7EB0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CD830E06EB8F4F5CBD3086637D1D189A@NewOffice>

I know the story, and had it confirmed by a couple of BA staff on various 
visits when we went there for interviews. But my version is a little 
different. It was the same pilot as my flight. My impression was he was 
rather autocratic, so I can believe this. While waiting for take-off, I was 
asked to leave the cockpit while he castigated the loadmaster about a 
problem with freight distribution. I could hear the shouting from the other 
side of the door. I heard that Concorde had problems after take off from New 
York, so had to fly sub sonic most of the way. This uses more fuel, so he 
was ordered to stop at Shannon to refuel. I suppose that being Concorde 
Division chief exec, he thought he knew better and carried on to Heathrow. 
When they arrived, authorities were so concerned about how much fuel was 
left they dipped the tanks. He would not have had enough to do a fly around 
if there had been an emergency landing abort. As you say, never made public, 
but he did leave BA shortly after.

Doug



-----Original Message----- 
From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 11:20 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Another fly-away story

Two interesting things in this story.......
I never got to fly on Concorde, but did work over several months on a 
documentary about its design and development up to the time of 002?s maiden 
flight. On that flight, the whole fuselage was so full of computer equipment 
that there was no room for us and our 35mm camera gear, so we flew alongside 
in a DC10.
Moving all the passengers forward was probably because weight distribution 
was crucial in Concorde in order to stop it going into an uncontrollable 
climb as it burnt off fuel. An elderly local Churchwarden friend of mine led 
the team who developed an automated system whereby fuel was constantly moved 
around the aircraft during flight to trim balance, etc. This was the secret 
that the Russians never got hold of and why Concordski crashed in rather 
spectacular fashion.
And..... I?m wondering if you might have unwittingly been on the flight back 
to Heathrow that had to declare a fuel emergency, and ran out of fuel as it 
touched down. It had been refuelled in New York in US gallons which are 
smaller than UK gallons. A story that was never to my knowledge made public 
at the time. No fuel = no hydraulics!
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Nov  8 09:37:52 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 15:37:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another fuel story
In-Reply-To: <CD830E06EB8F4F5CBD3086637D1D189A@NewOffice>
References: <cb583500-ae87-77f8-6a4f-4c35a7d8995d@btinternet.com>
	<BC66AA92875B4D958F5F31EFFFD247D2@NewOffice>
	<VE1P189MB0863E833AD7296EF33D3A011A7EB0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<CD830E06EB8F4F5CBD3086637D1D189A@NewOffice>
Message-ID: <ccb07da9-98f2-1e99-90c5-4a750bef890a@btinternet.com>

We had a school visit to RAF Cranwell where they had some Meteors and 
various training planes. Apparently, the control tower was asked for 
permisson to land and they asked 'how much fuel do you have ?', '18 
gallons' came the answer. All hell broke loose and they deployed the 
emergency crews etc. Not long after, a Chipmunk landed with another 30 
minutes flying time left, not a Meteor running on empty! Cheers, Dave

On 08/11/2020 14:41, Puddifoot(Doug) via Tech1 wrote:
> I know the story, and had it confirmed by a couple of BA staff on 
> various visits when we went there for interviews. But my version is a 
> little different. It was the same pilot as my flight. My impression 
> was he was rather autocratic, so I can believe this. While waiting for 
> take-off, I was asked to leave the cockpit while he castigated the 
> loadmaster about a problem with freight distribution. I could hear the 
> shouting from the other side of the door. I heard that Concorde had 
> problems after take off from New York, so had to fly sub sonic most of 
> the way. This uses more fuel, so he was ordered to stop at Shannon to 
> refuel. I suppose that being Concorde Division chief exec, he thought 
> he knew better and carried on to Heathrow. When they arrived, 
> authorities were so concerned about how much fuel was left they dipped 
> the tanks. He would not have had enough to do a fly around if there 
> had been an emergency landing abort. As you say, never made public, 
> but he did leave BA shortly after.
>
> Doug
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Nick Ware via Tech1
> Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 11:20 AM
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Another fly-away story
>
> Two interesting things in this story.......
> I never got to fly on Concorde, but did work over several months on a 
> documentary about its design and development up to the time of 002?s 
> maiden flight. On that flight, the whole fuselage was so full of 
> computer equipment that there was no room for us and our 35mm camera 
> gear, so we flew alongside in a DC10.
> Moving all the passengers forward was probably because weight 
> distribution was crucial in Concorde in order to stop it going into an 
> uncontrollable climb as it burnt off fuel. An elderly local 
> Churchwarden friend of mine led the team who developed an automated 
> system whereby fuel was constantly moved around the aircraft during 
> flight to trim balance, etc. This was the secret that the Russians 
> never got hold of and why Concordski crashed in rather spectacular 
> fashion.
> And..... I?m wondering if you might have unwittingly been on the 
> flight back to Heathrow that had to declare a fuel emergency, and ran 
> out of fuel as it touched down. It had been refuelled in New York in 
> US gallons which are smaller than UK gallons. A story that was never 
> to my knowledge made public at the time. No fuel = no hydraulics!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>
>


From waresound at msn.com  Sun Nov  8 12:44:07 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 18:44:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another fly-away story
Message-ID: <PR3P189MB08571EDC77E1B4CC3364E2B2A7EB0@PR3P189MB0857.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

?Two different versions of the fuel incident seems a bit puzzling, given that the version I related came from a reliable source. I shall check it out.
For those interested, I can?t recommend strongly enough: ?The Concorde Story? by Christopher Orlebar (book). Full of information, diagrams, and fabulous pictures. I bought my copy in Foyles Ocean Bookshop onboard the QE 2 (as you do - [cid:01CF1331-CE1E-47F2-BF72-5CBE57005703] just saying!).
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 8 Nov 2020, at 14:41, Puddifoot(Doug) <doug at puddifoot.me> wrote:

?I know the story, and had it confirmed by a couple of BA staff on various visits when we went there for interviews. But my version is a little different. It was the same pilot as my flight. My impression was he was rather autocratic, so I can believe this. While waiting for take-off, I was asked to leave the cockpit while he castigated the loadmaster about a problem with freight distribution. I could hear the shouting from the other side of the door. I heard that Concorde had problems after take off from New York, so had to fly sub sonic most of the way. This uses more fuel, so he was ordered to stop at Shannon to refuel. I suppose that being Concorde Division chief exec, he thought he knew better and carried on to Heathrow. When they arrived, authorities were so concerned about how much fuel was left they dipped the tanks. He would not have had enough to do a fly around if there had been an emergency landing abort. As you say, never made public, but he did leave BA shortly after.

Doug



-----Original Message----- From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 11:20 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Another fly-away story

Two interesting things in this story.......
I never got to fly on Concorde, but did work over several months on a documentary about its design and development up to the time of 002?s maiden flight. On that flight, the whole fuselage was so full of computer equipment that there was no room for us and our 35mm camera gear, so we flew alongside in a DC10.
Moving all the passengers forward was probably because weight distribution was crucial in Concorde in order to stop it going into an uncontrollable climb as it burnt off fuel. An elderly local Churchwarden friend of mine led the team who developed an automated system whereby fuel was constantly moved around the aircraft during flight to trim balance, etc. This was the secret that the Russians never got hold of and why Concordski crashed in rather spectacular fashion.
And..... I?m wondering if you might have unwittingly been on the flight back to Heathrow that had to declare a fuel emergency, and ran out of fuel as it touched down. It had been refuelled in New York in US gallons which are smaller than UK gallons. A story that was never to my knowledge made public at the time. No fuel = no hydraulics!
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5



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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Nov  8 14:42:30 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 20:42:30 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another Concorde story
Message-ID: <f141cb02-0ee2-cd44-9748-02639cfeb7fe@btinternet.com>

We, 'my' cameraman and I, were sent to LHR to cover a story on the first 
BA Concorde which had been withdrawn from service to have a full 
'health' check after 10 years flying. It was stripped of furnishings and 
paint etc. and the only negative thing they found was that the pilot's 
seat runners were worn and there was corrosion in the toilets from men 
who had missed! Cheers, Dave



From waresound at msn.com  Sun Nov  8 16:48:11 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 22:48:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another Concorde story
In-Reply-To: <f141cb02-0ee2-cd44-9748-02639cfeb7fe@btinternet.com>
References: <f141cb02-0ee2-cd44-9748-02639cfeb7fe@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB086361C71AFE556C8593AD15A7EB0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Were those two faults connected, or are we not privvy to that information?
Nick x
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 8 Nov 2020, at 21:32, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?We, 'my' cameraman and I, were sent to LHR to cover a story on the first BA Concorde which had been withdrawn from service to have a full 'health' check after 10 years flying. It was stripped of furnishings and paint etc. and the only negative thing they found was that the pilot's seat runners were worn and there was corrosion in the toilets from men who had missed! Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Nov  8 17:06:37 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2020 23:06:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another Concorde story
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB086361C71AFE556C8593AD15A7EB0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <f141cb02-0ee2-cd44-9748-02639cfeb7fe@btinternet.com>
	<VE1P189MB086361C71AFE556C8593AD15A7EB0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <68e8a17a-ab6e-6aee-0cd1-1dd1e7e55ebe@btinternet.com>

I'm sure that BA training would have covered 'aiming' in the same way 
that Wood Norton did! Cheers, Dave

On 08/11/2020 22:48, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> Were those two faults connected, or are we not privvy to that information?
> Nick x
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>> On 8 Nov 2020, at 21:32, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?We, 'my' cameraman and I, were sent to LHR to cover a story on the first BA Concorde which had been withdrawn from service to have a full 'health' check after 10 years flying. It was stripped of furnishings and paint etc. and the only negative thing they found was that the pilot's seat runners were worn and there was corrosion in the toilets from men who had missed! Cheers, Dave
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Nov  9 03:29:12 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 09:29:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another Concorde story
In-Reply-To: <68e8a17a-ab6e-6aee-0cd1-1dd1e7e55ebe@btinternet.com>
References: <f141cb02-0ee2-cd44-9748-02639cfeb7fe@btinternet.com>
	<VE1P189MB086361C71AFE556C8593AD15A7EB0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<68e8a17a-ab6e-6aee-0cd1-1dd1e7e55ebe@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5fa90be7.1c69fb81.dffb9.8550@mx.google.com>

Excellent Concorde stories ? you lucky lot!

Coming in to Heathrow late one evening (missed getting into Fairoaks) in the cameraman?s Cessna 414, Tower calls up: ?How fast can you go?? ?About 180 knots ? why??
? There?s a heavy behind you, catching up! So fly down the runway at 15 feet and we?ll tell you to when to pop it down before a suitable exit taxiway!?
Cameraman is an excellent pilot and had full instrument rating, which was handy when bound for Malmo ? pitch black night and in the middle of a blizzard. Very relieved to see the runway lights appearing dead on the nose!
Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: dave.mdv via Tech1
Sent: 08 November 2020 23:06
To: Nick Ware
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Another Concorde story

I



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From Waresound at msn.com  Mon Nov  9 05:53:10 2020
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 11:53:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Another Concorde story
In-Reply-To: <5fa90be7.1c69fb81.dffb9.8550@mx.google.com>
References: <f141cb02-0ee2-cd44-9748-02639cfeb7fe@btinternet.com>
	<VE1P189MB086361C71AFE556C8593AD15A7EB0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<68e8a17a-ab6e-6aee-0cd1-1dd1e7e55ebe@btinternet.com>,
	<5fa90be7.1c69fb81.dffb9.8550@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB08634D4E879DA2ED42A2B40EA7EA0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Oh dear, I can?t bear this. You make NHR sound amateurish, which he most definitely is not. It just doesn?t work like that. He would have been fully aware of everything going on around him, and so would the aircraft behind him. And his instrument rating wasn?t just ?handy?, he couldn?t and wouldn?t have been flying across the North Sea at night, or in poor weather conditions without it. Don?t forget, Pat, I know the background to all your Redapple stories.
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 9 Nov 2020, at 09:29, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:

?
Excellent Concorde stories ? you lucky lot!

Coming in to Heathrow late one evening (missed getting into Fairoaks) in the cameraman?s Cessna 414, Tower calls up: ?How fast can you go?? ?About 180 knots ? why??
? There?s a heavy behind you, catching up! So fly down the runway at 15 feet and we?ll tell you to when to pop it down before a suitable exit taxiway!?
Cameraman is an excellent pilot and had full instrument rating, which was handy when bound for Malmo ? pitch black night and in the middle of a blizzard. Very relieved to see the runway lights appearing dead on the nose!
Best
Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: dave.mdv via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 08 November 2020 23:06
To: Nick Ware<mailto:waresound at msn.com>
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Another Concorde story

I



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From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov  9 07:57:19 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 13:57:19 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Lord Grade
Message-ID: <58ccba9ca9davesound@btinternet.com>

Just heard him slagging the BBC over the Lady Di interviews.
Isn't he the one who made a great deal of money moving TC to Salford, into
buildings that are owned by a company he has or had interests in?

Not really commenting on the Diana thing, until the full facts become
known.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From mibridge at mac.com  Mon Nov  9 08:16:57 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:16:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lord Grade
In-Reply-To: <58ccba9ca9davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <58ccba9ca9davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <9F50E155-6C22-46D4-A8BB-DD1859D839CB@mac.com>

And doesn?t he have an interest in Pinewood which has also picked up BBC work?

Mike G

> On 9 Nov 2020, at 13:57, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Just heard him slagging the BBC over the Lady Di interviews.
> Isn't he the one who made a great deal of money moving TC to Salford, into
> buildings that are owned by a company he has or had interests in?
> 
> Not really commenting on the Diana thing, until the full facts become
> known.
> 
> -- 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alawrance1 at me.com  Mon Nov  9 08:33:25 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 14:33:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lord Grade
In-Reply-To: <9F50E155-6C22-46D4-A8BB-DD1859D839CB@mac.com>
References: <9F50E155-6C22-46D4-A8BB-DD1859D839CB@mac.com>
Message-ID: <12A73780-B361-4254-AC81-C99297AAC123@me.com>

A BBC News web item from 2000 states - 

"He says the aim is to maintain it's (Pinewood's) reputation as a premier film studio for big international pictures, but also to develop it as a television facility"

Much needed now that TVC has gone (more or less), and Pinewood is obviously very convenient for audience shows......

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 9 Nov 2020, at 14:17, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?And doesn?t he have an interest in Pinewood which has also picked up BBC work?
> 
> Mike G
> 
>> On 9 Nov 2020, at 13:57, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Just heard him slagging the BBC over the Lady Di interviews.
>> Isn't he the one who made a great deal of money moving TC to Salford, into
>> buildings that are owned by a company he has or had interests in?
>> 
>> Not really commenting on the Diana thing, until the full facts become
>> known.
>> 
>> -- 
>>   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 09:57:16 2020
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 15:57:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lord Grade - TVC
In-Reply-To: <12A73780-B361-4254-AC81-C99297AAC123@me.com>
References: <9F50E155-6C22-46D4-A8BB-DD1859D839CB@mac.com>
	<12A73780-B361-4254-AC81-C99297AAC123@me.com>
Message-ID: <4102080c-a4bb-640b-d074-02fa0ebcedd9@gmail.com>

Hi all,

a propos TC...?? Did any of you know about this at the time?


In the early 1970s, the planned location for a Channel Tunnel station in 
London was White City. The plans were cancelled in 1975.

Interestingly, the Station on the H&C HAS been built, albeit for 
Westfield ...

Wouldn't both these stations - plus White City Central line - have been 
fine and dandy for bringing performers, staff and audiences to TC?!

-- 
Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502

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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Mon Nov  9 09:58:10 2020
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 15:58:10 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lord Grade
In-Reply-To: <12A73780-B361-4254-AC81-C99297AAC123@me.com>
References: <9F50E155-6C22-46D4-A8BB-DD1859D839CB@mac.com>
	<12A73780-B361-4254-AC81-C99297AAC123@me.com>
Message-ID: <007e01d6b6b1$1ffcdbe0$5ff693a0$@pgtmedia.co.uk>

He no longer has a direct connection with Pinewood, but he has done a lot of damage over the years...
He presented a 'Goodbye to Television Centre ' just before closure of TVC. Recorded in HD in TC 1 (one of 5 HD studio at the time) They had to vastly over record , so they could cut out all the guests saying what a stupid idea the closure was.
A couple of weeks later M Grade was on a programme trailing the show, and saying TVC was out of date as non of it was HD so had to close. Clearly a idiot or a liar.... Take your pick.
Paul 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1
Sent: 09 November 2020 14:33
To: Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com>
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; Dave Plowman <davesound at btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lord Grade

A BBC News web item from 2000 states - 

"He says the aim is to maintain it's (Pinewood's) reputation as a premier film studio for big international pictures, but also to develop it as a television facility"

Much needed now that TVC has gone (more or less), and Pinewood is obviously very convenient for audience shows......

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 9 Nov 2020, at 14:17, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?And doesn?t he have an interest in Pinewood which has also picked up BBC work?
> 
> Mike G
> 
>> On 9 Nov 2020, at 13:57, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Just heard him slagging the BBC over the Lady Di interviews.
>> Isn't he the one who made a great deal of money moving TC to Salford, 
>> into buildings that are owned by a company he has or had interests in?
>> 
>> Not really commenting on the Diana thing, until the full facts become 
>> known.
>> 
>> -- 
>>   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Mon Nov  9 11:00:58 2020
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (paul at pgtmedia.co.uk)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 17:00:58 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lord Grade
In-Reply-To: <8A9A979E-F892-4C9F-911F-BD537FAB0C22@me.com>
References: <007e01d6b6b1$1ffcdbe0$5ff693a0$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<8A9A979E-F892-4C9F-911F-BD537FAB0C22@me.com>
Message-ID: <000001d6b6b9$e5ba38c0$b12eaa40$@pgtmedia.co.uk>

It was supposed to placate northern MP's who agued the north was paying the licence fee, but not getting any of the benefit from employment and local spend. 
It significantly increased costs, and failed to placate the MPs. A lose / lose.

-----Original Message-----
From: Alasdair Lawrance <alawrance1 at me.com> 
Sent: 09 November 2020 16:21
To: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lord Grade

I'm not sure the move to Salford was to satisfy the North of England - more to nobble the Beeb, I think, make it difficult to interview foreign politicians, personalities and pop stars on tour, etc.

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 9 Nov 2020, at 15:58, paul--- via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?He no longer has a direct connection with Pinewood, but he has done a lot of damage over the years...
> He presented a 'Goodbye to Television Centre ' just before closure of TVC. Recorded in HD in TC 1 (one of 5 HD studio at the time) They had to vastly over record , so they could cut out all the guests saying what a stupid idea the closure was.
> A couple of weeks later M Grade was on a programme trailing the show, and saying TVC was out of date as non of it was HD so had to close. Clearly a idiot or a liar.... Take your pick.
> Paul
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alasdair 
> Lawrance via Tech1
> Sent: 09 November 2020 14:33
> To: Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com>
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; Dave Plowman <davesound at btinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lord Grade
> 
> A BBC News web item from 2000 states -
> 
> "He says the aim is to maintain it's (Pinewood's) reputation as a premier film studio for big international pictures, but also to develop it as a television facility"
> 
> Much needed now that TVC has gone (more or less), and Pinewood is obviously very convenient for audience shows......
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 9 Nov 2020, at 14:17, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?And doesn?t he have an interest in Pinewood which has also picked up BBC work?
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>>>> On 9 Nov 2020, at 13:57, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Just heard him slagging the BBC over the Lady Di interviews.
>>> Isn't he the one who made a great deal of money moving TC to 
>>> Salford, into buildings that are owned by a company he has or had interests in?
>>> 
>>> Not really commenting on the Diana thing, until the full facts 
>>> become known.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>>  Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Mon Nov  9 13:20:05 2020
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 19:20:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fw:  Lord Grade
References: <006301d6b6c0$b783e9e0$268bbda0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <q65o0i201qft1ajurpfkgedt.1604949605775@pgtmedia.co.uk>


LBH will be safe while news is on that site. Quite a lot of those upstairs believe News is the only thing that matters. (Politicians think the only things that are important are programs that feature and agree with them)



Paul Thackray
PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
+44 7802 243979
Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
Linkedin;?? http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/



	? Original Message ?	


From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com
Sent: 9 November 2020 17:49
To: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
Subject: RE: [Tech1] Lord Grade


...and reporter Nick Higham on the last edition of the Ten O'clock News on BBC1 to come from Television Centre, was shown standing in a corridor that badly needed decorating, saying how dilapidated the building had become, implying that it wasn't worth saving. It struck me how biased that report was and tailored to fit the event when, although it may by that time have been beyond saving because the deal had been done, it would've been better not to comment.
Television Centre was to Television what Broadcasting House is to Radio and should have been kept open. I wonder how long it will be before greedy eyes fall on BH and say that it's had its day and recent experience has shown that programmes can easily be made from people's bedrooms and sheds, if not private studio setups? Would they get away with it? I bet they would!

Geoff

-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of paul--- via Tech1
Sent: 09 November 2020 15:58
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lord Grade

He no longer has a direct connection with Pinewood, but he has done a lot of damage over the years...
He presented a 'Goodbye to Television Centre ' just before closure of TVC. Recorded in HD in TC 1 (one of 5 HD studio at the time) They had to vastly over record , so they could cut out all the guests saying what a stupid idea the closure was.
A couple of weeks later M Grade was on a programme trailing the show, and saying TVC was out of date as non of it was HD so had to close. Clearly a idiot or a liar.... Take your pick.
Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1
Sent: 09 November 2020 14:33
To: Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com>
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; Dave Plowman <davesound at btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lord Grade

A BBC News web item from 2000 states -

"He says the aim is to maintain it's (Pinewood's) reputation as a premier film studio for big international pictures, but also to develop it as a television facility"

Much needed now that TVC has gone (more or less), and Pinewood is obviously very convenient for audience shows......

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 9 Nov 2020, at 14:17, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?And doesn?t he have an interest in Pinewood which has also picked up BBC work?
>
> Mike G
>
>> On 9 Nov 2020, at 13:57, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Just heard him slagging the BBC over the Lady Di interviews.
>> Isn't he the one who made a great deal of money moving TC to Salford,
>> into buildings that are owned by a company he has or had interests in?
>>
>> Not really commenting on the Diana thing, until the full facts become
>> known.
>>
>> --
>>?? Dave Plowman???? dave at davesound.co.uk???? London SW 12
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From alawrance1 at me.com  Mon Nov  9 13:27:44 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 19:27:44 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fw:  Lord Grade
In-Reply-To: <q65o0i201qft1ajurpfkgedt.1604949605775@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <q65o0i201qft1ajurpfkgedt.1604949605775@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BCF7CB6C-A3D2-483E-BA36-1575005869F3@me.com>

Certainly all the people who now appear via laptop denigrate the skills and experience of (ex) professionals, but nobody seems to mind.

 And of course it all helps when you're taking yet another pop at Auntie.

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 9 Nov 2020, at 19:20, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> LBH will be safe while news is on that site. Quite a lot of those upstairs believe News is the only thing that matters. (Politicians think the only things that are important are programs that feature and agree with them)
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Thackray
> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
> +44 7802 243979
> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
> 
> 
> 
>      Original Message      
> 
> 
> From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com
> Sent: 9 November 2020 17:49
> To: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
> Subject: RE: [Tech1] Lord Grade
> 
> 
> ...and reporter Nick Higham on the last edition of the Ten O'clock News on BBC1 to come from Television Centre, was shown standing in a corridor that badly needed decorating, saying how dilapidated the building had become, implying that it wasn't worth saving. It struck me how biased that report was and tailored to fit the event when, although it may by that time have been beyond saving because the deal had been done, it would've been better not to comment.
> Television Centre was to Television what Broadcasting House is to Radio and should have been kept open. I wonder how long it will be before greedy eyes fall on BH and say that it's had its day and recent experience has shown that programmes can easily be made from people's bedrooms and sheds, if not private studio setups? Would they get away with it? I bet they would!
> 
> Geoff
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of paul--- via Tech1
> Sent: 09 November 2020 15:58
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lord Grade
> 
> He no longer has a direct connection with Pinewood, but he has done a lot of damage over the years...
> He presented a 'Goodbye to Television Centre ' just before closure of TVC. Recorded in HD in TC 1 (one of 5 HD studio at the time) They had to vastly over record , so they could cut out all the guests saying what a stupid idea the closure was.
> A couple of weeks later M Grade was on a programme trailing the show, and saying TVC was out of date as non of it was HD so had to close. Clearly a idiot or a liar.... Take your pick.
> Paul
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1
> Sent: 09 November 2020 14:33
> To: Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com>
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; Dave Plowman <davesound at btinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lord Grade
> 
> A BBC News web item from 2000 states -
> 
> "He says the aim is to maintain it's (Pinewood's) reputation as a premier film studio for big international pictures, but also to develop it as a television facility"
> 
> Much needed now that TVC has gone (more or less), and Pinewood is obviously very convenient for audience shows......
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 9 Nov 2020, at 14:17, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?And doesn?t he have an interest in Pinewood which has also picked up BBC work?
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>>>> On 9 Nov 2020, at 13:57, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Just heard him slagging the BBC over the Lady Di interviews.
>>> Isn't he the one who made a great deal of money moving TC to Salford,
>>> into buildings that are owned by a company he has or had interests in?
>>> 
>>> Not really commenting on the Diana thing, until the full facts become
>>> known.
>>> 
>>> --
>>>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com  Tue Nov 10 02:47:06 2020
From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 08:47:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Diana doco
Message-ID: <7E7EDCDB-19B2-447A-8D0F-5B05F4D0CA17@icloud.com>

I guess we can safely say that Tony Poole won?t be getting an OBE from the Queen anytime soon!!!
Nicely lit interviews by the way although the cut between the wider shot and the side-on shot seemed to jar to me.

Graham Maunder

Sent from my iPhone 

From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 10 04:12:48 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 10:12:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Lord Grade
In-Reply-To: <007e01d6b6b1$1ffcdbe0$5ff693a0$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <9F50E155-6C22-46D4-A8BB-DD1859D839CB@mac.com>
	<12A73780-B361-4254-AC81-C99297AAC123@me.com>
	<007e01d6b6b1$1ffcdbe0$5ff693a0$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <210e61a3.ef5a.175b1a4cf8e.Webtop.95@btinternet.com>


Peter Neil and I (mostly Peter) spoke to him during the "Goodbye to TV 
Centre" programme and he did seem to genuinely believe that the Centre 
was being closed for technical reasons. Of course, it's easier to 
believe something when it's in your own financial interests. He appeared 
on a couple of programmes about that time, being virtually the only 
interviewee they could find to speak in favour of closure. All the other 
celebs were waxing nostalgic about what a wonderful place it was.
luv, Rog.

------ Original Message ------
From: "paul--- via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: Monday, 9 Nov, 20 At 15:58
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lord Grade
He no longer has a direct connection with Pinewood, but he has done a 
lot of damage over the years...
He presented a 'Goodbye to Television Centre ' just before closure of 
TVC. Recorded in HD in TC 1 (one of 5 HD studio at the time) They had to 
vastly over record , so they could cut out all the guests saying what a 
stupid idea the closure was.
A couple of weeks later M Grade was on a programme trailing the show, 
and saying TVC was out of date as non of it was HD so had to close. 
Clearly a idiot or a liar.... Take your pick.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alasdair 
Lawrance via Tech1
Sent: 09 November 2020 14:33
To: Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com>
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; Dave Plowman <davesound at btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lord Grade
A BBC News web item from 2000 states -
"He says the aim is to maintain it's (Pinewood's) reputation as a 
premier film studio for big international pictures, but also to develop 
it as a television facility"
Much needed now that TVC has gone (more or less), and Pinewood is 
obviously very convenient for audience shows......
Alasdair Lawrance
Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.

On 9 Nov 2020, at 14:17, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
wrote:
?And doesn?t he have an interest in Pinewood which has also picked up 
BBC work?
Mike G
On 9 Nov 2020, at 13:57, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
wrote:
?Just heard him slagging the BBC over the Lady Di interviews.
Isn't he the one who made a great deal of money moving TC to Salford,
into buildings that are owned by a company he has or had interests in?
Not really commenting on the Diana thing, until the full facts become
known.
-- 
   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

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From mibridge at mac.com  Tue Nov 10 04:30:34 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 10:30:34 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] The law of unintended consequences
Message-ID: <7FC2EC4A-0D62-44E3-B2BA-1D18D95BD672@mac.com>

Having been prompted by various tales of overseas jaunts, I was reminded of a barbecue on the beach in New Zealand, courtesy of that nice Mr Hopkins, when I think virtually everybody from, or working with the BBC in Auckland was present. After a while a game of football started with David Coleman sitting on the sand giving commentary! I can only think that this gave rise to a vivid dream a few nights ago, when I thought I was playing football somewhere strange and suddenly had a chance at a goal. I gave an enormous kick and was immediately awoken by a great clattering, accompanied by a sharp pain in my little toe - I had lashed out and kicked the radiator beside the bed, so hard that I have broken the toe, which is now very autumnal in hue!

Who could have predicted that chain of events?

Mike G

From davesound at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 10 04:36:10 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 10:36:10 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Lord Grade
In-Reply-To: <210e61a3.ef5a.175b1a4cf8e.Webtop.95@btinternet.com>
References: <9F50E155-6C22-46D4-A8BB-DD1859D839CB@mac.com>
	<12A73780-B361-4254-AC81-C99297AAC123@me.com>
	<007e01d6b6b1$1ffcdbe0$5ff693a0$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<210e61a3.ef5a.175b1a4cf8e.Webtop.95@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <58cd2c0865davesound@btinternet.com>

In article <210e61a3.ef5a.175b1a4cf8e.Webtop.95 at btinternet.com>,
   ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Peter Neil and I (mostly Peter) spoke to him during the "Goodbye to TV 
> Centre" programme and he did seem to genuinely believe that the Centre 
> was being closed for technical reasons. Of course, it's easier to 
> believe something when it's in your own financial interests. He appeared 
> on a couple of programmes about that time, being virtually the only 
> interviewee they could find to speak in favour of closure. All the other 
> celebs were waxing nostalgic about what a wonderful place it was.
> luv, Rog.

It likely did have high running costs - like any older building. But the
'technical' reasons nonsense IMHO. Since you'd have to buy everything new
by moving to new premises anyway.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Nov 10 04:50:27 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 10:50:27 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Concorde revisited
Message-ID: <BD16C9C4-3817-4FCC-A4BA-49F371898A95@icloud.com>

The head of the British design team was Sir George Edwards. He is buried at St Martha?s on the Hill at Chilworth, just south of Guildford. There is a kneeler in the church in his honour:

? 
Graeme Wall

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 10 05:32:27 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 11:32:27 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] The law of unintended consequences
In-Reply-To: <7FC2EC4A-0D62-44E3-B2BA-1D18D95BD672@mac.com>
References: <7FC2EC4A-0D62-44E3-B2BA-1D18D95BD672@mac.com>
Message-ID: <37eac840-f890-5f4d-c304-2809b5bbcb8b@btinternet.com>

It could have been far worse, Mike! It might have been SWMBO who you 
kicked and then you would really be in trouble! Cheers, Dave

On 10/11/2020 10:30, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
> Having been prompted by various tales of overseas jaunts, I was reminded of a barbecue on the beach in New Zealand, courtesy of that nice Mr Hopkins, when I think virtually everybody from, or working with the BBC in Auckland was present. After a while a game of football started with David Coleman sitting on the sand giving commentary! I can only think that this gave rise to a vivid dream a few nights ago, when I thought I was playing football somewhere strange and suddenly had a chance at a goal. I gave an enormous kick and was immediately awoken by a great clattering, accompanied by a sharp pain in my little toe - I had lashed out and kicked the radiator beside the bed, so hard that I have broken the toe, which is now very autumnal in hue!
>
> Who could have predicted that chain of events?
>
> Mike G


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Nov 10 05:34:26 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 11:34:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] The law of unintended consequences
In-Reply-To: <7FC2EC4A-0D62-44E3-B2BA-1D18D95BD672@mac.com>
References: <7FC2EC4A-0D62-44E3-B2BA-1D18D95BD672@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5faa7ac2.1c69fb81.fdde9.86ab@mx.google.com>

Hi Mike,
Did you stay awake long enough to witness the goal scored?
I have the greatest respect for Coleman and recall a situation on Grandstand:

Memories of David Coleman
Having just watched the BBC2 programme on David Coleman (03/05/11) I was reminded that there were two incidents that did not make it to the transmission:
I was on the Sound Crew in Studio G Lime Grove on both occasions. 
1. David's perfect professionalism - an event suddenly occurred in a Cricket OB - rapid cue to David to link to the OB, and as he was in the middle of the announcement "so now over to......" Shout down the talkback "We don't know who the commentator is!" without breaking stride, he finished "....to our man on the spot"
Brilliant!
2. Brian Cowgill, the then director of Grandstand, had a habit of throwing his pencils at the monitor bank - this because there was a TV alongside, showing ITV's coverage - if they got to transmit a result before BBC, he went apeshit!
On one afternoon, even before the playout music had finished, David arrived in the gallery, his earpiece lead still dangling, and confronted Cowgill.
"I am sick and tired of hearing a stream of 'Jesus Christ's' and 'effing hell' coming on talkback - if you can't say anything sensible, then I'm not wearing this!" And he wrenched the earpiece out and threw it at Cowgill.
We stood around, silently applauding.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Mike Giles via Tech1
Sent: 10 November 2020 10:30
To: Tech Ops
Subject: [Tech1] The law of unintended consequences

H



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https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From waresound at msn.com  Tue Nov 10 05:53:56 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 11:53:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lord Grade
In-Reply-To: <58cd2c0865davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <9F50E155-6C22-46D4-A8BB-DD1859D839CB@mac.com>
	<12A73780-B361-4254-AC81-C99297AAC123@me.com>
	<007e01d6b6b1$1ffcdbe0$5ff693a0$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
	<210e61a3.ef5a.175b1a4cf8e.Webtop.95@btinternet.com>,
	<58cd2c0865davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863E6F24FD9E5000CA7C41CA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Asbestos and antiquated plumbing were also among the feeble excuses I read.
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 10 Nov 2020, at 10:45, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?In article <210e61a3.ef5a.175b1a4cf8e.Webtop.95 at btinternet.com>,
>   ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Peter Neil and I (mostly Peter) spoke to him during the "Goodbye to TV 
>> Centre" programme and he did seem to genuinely believe that the Centre 
>> was being closed for technical reasons. Of course, it's easier to 
>> believe something when it's in your own financial interests. He appeared 
>> on a couple of programmes about that time, being virtually the only 
>> interviewee they could find to speak in favour of closure. All the other 
>> celebs were waxing nostalgic about what a wonderful place it was.
>> luv, Rog.
> 
> It likely did have high running costs - like any older building. But the
> 'technical' reasons nonsense IMHO. Since you'd have to buy everything new
> by moving to new premises anyway.
> 
> -- 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From barry-wilkinson at sky.com  Tue Nov 10 12:16:53 2020
From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 18:16:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] A video converter
References: <0E573BBE-2388-4E6B-9C81-FBFA37803C54.ref@sky.com>
Message-ID: <0E573BBE-2388-4E6B-9C81-FBFA37803C54@sky.com>

I have a series of programmes I worked on recorded in an old format called SVCD ( don?t ask!) but my MacBook Pro will not recognise the files. Can anyone help in any way such as recommending a video converter programme suitable for a Mac that could convert them to DVD please. ( preferably free, I am a pensioner shielding) ? 

Sent from my iPad


From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Nov 10 12:35:43 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 18:35:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] A video converter
In-Reply-To: <0E573BBE-2388-4E6B-9C81-FBFA37803C54@sky.com>
References: <0E573BBE-2388-4E6B-9C81-FBFA37803C54@sky.com>
Message-ID: <71D29206-D3C2-45F3-8D34-C20A1BBE3FCA@me.com>

Have you tried VLC Media Player?  It?s opened pretty well everything I?ve thrown at it.

Alan Taylor

> On 10 Nov 2020, at 18:17, B Wilkinson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I have a series of programmes I worked on recorded in an old format called SVCD ( don?t ask!) but my MacBook Pro will not recognise the files. Can anyone help in any way such as recommending a video converter programme suitable for a Mac that could convert them to DVD please. ( preferably free, I am a pensioner shielding) ? 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Nov 10 12:41:39 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 18:41:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] A video converter
In-Reply-To: <71D29206-D3C2-45F3-8D34-C20A1BBE3FCA@me.com>
References: <71D29206-D3C2-45F3-8D34-C20A1BBE3FCA@me.com>
Message-ID: <0A3C2A98-BDF9-429D-90CC-8A2431484724@me.com>

Just checked with their web site and it does mention SVCD.  It?s a free application, so nothing lost trying it and it?s a useful utility to have installed anyway.

https://www.videolan.org/vlc/features.html

Alan Taylor



> On 10 Nov 2020, at 18:35, Alan Taylor <alanaudio at me.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Have you tried VLC Media Player?  It?s opened pretty well everything I?ve thrown at it.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 18:17, B Wilkinson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I have a series of programmes I worked on recorded in an old format called SVCD ( don?t ask!) but my MacBook Pro will not recognise the files. Can anyone help in any way such as recommending a video converter programme suitable for a Mac that could convert them to DVD please. ( preferably free, I am a pensioner shielding) ? 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 12:54:06 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 18:54:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] A video converter
In-Reply-To: <0E573BBE-2388-4E6B-9C81-FBFA37803C54@sky.com>
References: <0E573BBE-2388-4E6B-9C81-FBFA37803C54.ref@sky.com>
	<0E573BBE-2388-4E6B-9C81-FBFA37803C54@sky.com>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyHYRozaN_6waOhpcHYbW70QNcG9_5-1j3RH3+oRmqdqFw@mail.gmail.com>

Handbrake?

On Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 18:17 B Wilkinson via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> I have a series of programmes I worked on recorded in an old format called
> SVCD ( don?t ask!) but my MacBook Pro will not recognise the files. Can
> anyone help in any way such as recommending a video converter programme
> suitable for a Mac that could convert them to DVD please. ( preferably
> free, I am a pensioner shielding) ?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 12:58:25 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 18:58:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] A video converter
In-Reply-To: <CAA7MLyHYRozaN_6waOhpcHYbW70QNcG9_5-1j3RH3+oRmqdqFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0E573BBE-2388-4E6B-9C81-FBFA37803C54.ref@sky.com>
	<0E573BBE-2388-4E6B-9C81-FBFA37803C54@sky.com>
	<CAA7MLyHYRozaN_6waOhpcHYbW70QNcG9_5-1j3RH3+oRmqdqFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyGycELfd54BnE11eOcVSsZS=GQt7L0PmhpEs+buPZLPWA@mail.gmail.com>

Or VLC

On Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 18:54 Bernard Newnham, <bernie833 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Handbrake?
>
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 18:17 B Wilkinson via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> I have a series of programmes I worked on recorded in an old format
>> called SVCD ( don?t ask!) but my MacBook Pro will not recognise the files.
>> Can anyone help in any way such as recommending a video converter programme
>> suitable for a Mac that could convert them to DVD please. ( preferably
>> free, I am a pensioner shielding) ?
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>
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From waresound at msn.com  Tue Nov 10 13:09:24 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 19:09:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] A video converter
In-Reply-To: <0A3C2A98-BDF9-429D-90CC-8A2431484724@me.com>
References: <71D29206-D3C2-45F3-8D34-C20A1BBE3FCA@me.com>,
	<0A3C2A98-BDF9-429D-90CC-8A2431484724@me.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB086310851688630151A574DBA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Also Any Video Converter Free . There are various free and paid versions, but as a Windows user I can?t say what the Mac version has to offer.
And I have Roxio Creator NXT7 that does everything, but again, as a Windows user I can?t say what Mac offerings there are.

Incidentally, I have a Tascam CD player / recorder that I?ve failed to sell on various forums and eBay, so now free to good home if anyone has a use for it. I had installed these in a number of church PA installations and this one was bought as a hot spare, but it was never needed as such. Very light use here at home, so immaculate condition and FWO. Boxed ready to go plus a handful of discs for you to play with. 07802-246088.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
[cid:FEA7308C-B670-462F-A80A-814397F933CA]

On 10 Nov 2020, at 18:41, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Just checked with their web site and it does mention SVCD.  It?s a free application, so nothing lost trying it and it?s a useful utility to have installed anyway.

https://www.videolan.org/vlc/features.html

Alan Taylor



On 10 Nov 2020, at 18:35, Alan Taylor <alanaudio at me.com> wrote:

?Have you tried VLC Media Player?  It?s opened pretty well everything I?ve thrown at it.

Alan Taylor

On 10 Nov 2020, at 18:17, B Wilkinson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?I have a series of programmes I worked on recorded in an old format called SVCD ( don?t ask!) but my MacBook Pro will not recognise the files. Can anyone help in any way such as recommending a video converter programme suitable for a Mac that could convert them to DVD please. ( preferably free, I am a pensioner shielding) ?

Sent from my iPad

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 13:24:21 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 19:24:21 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] A video converter
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB086310851688630151A574DBA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <71D29206-D3C2-45F3-8D34-C20A1BBE3FCA@me.com>
	<0A3C2A98-BDF9-429D-90CC-8A2431484724@me.com>
	<VE1P189MB086310851688630151A574DBA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyGfw1RhZXN9OrRSn4P8qbmehyCh303hNhCJ2_jYr_3fhw@mail.gmail.com>

SVCD seems to be MPEG2, so should be easy to convert

B

On Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 19:10 Nick Ware via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Also Any Video Converter Free . There are various free and paid versions,
> but as a Windows user I can?t say what the Mac version has to offer.
> And I have Roxio Creator NXT7 that does everything, but again, as a
> Windows user I can?t say what Mac offerings there are.
>
> Incidentally, I have a Tascam CD player / recorder that I?ve failed to
> sell on various forums and eBay, so now free to good home if anyone has a
> use for it. I had installed these in a number of church PA installations
> and this one was bought as a hot spare, but it was never needed as such.
> Very light use here at home, so immaculate condition and FWO. Boxed ready
> to go plus a handful of discs for you to play with. 07802-246088.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>
> On 10 Nov 2020, at 18:41, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> Just checked with their web site and it does mention SVCD.  It?s a free
> application, so nothing lost trying it and it?s a useful utility to have
> installed anyway.
>
> https://www.videolan.org/vlc/features.html
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
> On 10 Nov 2020, at 18:35, Alan Taylor <alanaudio at me.com> wrote:
>
> ?Have you tried VLC Media Player?  It?s opened pretty well everything
> I?ve thrown at it.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
> On 10 Nov 2020, at 18:17, B Wilkinson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
> ?I have a series of programmes I worked on recorded in an old format
> called SVCD ( don?t ask!) but my MacBook Pro will not recognise the files.
> Can anyone help in any way such as recommending a video converter programme
> suitable for a Mac that could convert them to DVD please. ( preferably
> free, I am a pensioner shielding) ?
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> --
>
> Tech1 mailing list
>
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 10 14:50:05 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 20:50:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
Message-ID: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>

Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is 
going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in 
Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about 
a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided 
to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it 
was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in 
glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in 
bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint 
containers but that would cost 50p. more!? Cheers, Dave



From waresound at msn.com  Tue Nov 10 15:02:16 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 21:02:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863F47163E12BAAAAB2D4D1A7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Try Sainsbury?s. My wife Judi is high vulnerability due to Sarcodoisis and medication etc., and so am I because compared to her I am an old codger, so we have a weekly home delivery. The milk always has a long enough use-by date to last well over a week. No problem. We always buy the 2pint plastic bottles, and of course always recycle the empties along with the embarassingly large number of wine empties. On the one occasion that the milk didn?t last the week, a quick phone call and it was replaced free of charge.
Needless to say, we trust and hope that the bottles don?t get dumped in the sea!
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 10 Nov 2020, at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From waresound at msn.com  Tue Nov 10 15:07:54 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 21:07:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863F47163E12BAAAAB2D4D1A7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>,
	<VE1P189MB0863F47163E12BAAAAB2D4D1A7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB086310FFFC4E9F10B69C6EDDA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I should add that on the instruction of our Dietician daughter, and our personal preference, we buy semi-skimmed. Maybe you should too?
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 10 Nov 2020, at 21:02, Nick Ware <Waresound at msn.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Try Sainsbury?s. My wife Judi is high vulnerability due to Sarcodoisis and medication etc., and so am I because compared to her I am an old codger, so we have a weekly home delivery. The milk always has a long enough use-by date to last well over a week. No problem. We always buy the 2pint plastic bottles, and of course always recycle the empties along with the embarassingly large number of wine empties. On the one occasion that the milk didn?t last the week, a quick phone call and it was replaced free of charge.
> Needless to say, we trust and hope that the bottles don?t get dumped in the sea!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> 
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 10 15:17:05 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 21:17:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB086310FFFC4E9F10B69C6EDDA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<VE1P189MB0863F47163E12BAAAAB2D4D1A7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<VE1P189MB086310FFFC4E9F10B69C6EDDA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <10949aba-59c7-033f-bb9a-d7bae10b760d@btinternet.com>

We used to but we always had full-cream during the war and grew up on it 
and recent info. was published that natural is best! Cheers, Dave

On 10/11/2020 21:07, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> I should add that on the instruction of our Dietician daughter, and our personal preference, we buy semi-skimmed. Maybe you should too?
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 21:02, Nick Ware <Waresound at msn.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?Try Sainsbury?s. My wife Judi is high vulnerability due to Sarcodoisis and medication etc., and so am I because compared to her I am an old codger, so we have a weekly home delivery. The milk always has a long enough use-by date to last well over a week. No problem. We always buy the 2pint plastic bottles, and of course always recycle the empties along with the embarassingly large number of wine empties. On the one occasion that the milk didn?t last the week, a quick phone call and it was replaced free of charge.
>> Needless to say, we trust and hope that the bottles don?t get dumped in the sea!
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>>
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>
>>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From Waresound at msn.com  Tue Nov 10 15:58:16 2020
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 21:58:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <10949aba-59c7-033f-bb9a-d7bae10b760d@btinternet.com>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<VE1P189MB0863F47163E12BAAAAB2D4D1A7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<VE1P189MB086310FFFC4E9F10B69C6EDDA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<10949aba-59c7-033f-bb9a-d7bae10b760d@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB08637E5710737E7B293F1BEBA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Semi-skimmed isn?t ?not natural? but is lower fat. I too was brought up on ?natural? in glass bottles with those push-in cardboard tops, but the war was a long time ago, in less enlightened times! My Mum used to carefully pour the cream off the top and use it to make custard, scrambled eggs etc. No fridge in those days, but daily milk deliveries and local cows made a big difference. One thing you might look into is whether your supermarket sells British milk or French milk churned about in huge containers on Channel ferries. That was why we left AN-other supermarket some years ago - that and the ?free-range? fresh chicken that was lime green inside when you carved into it (yes, really!).
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 10 Nov 2020, at 21:16, dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
> ?We used to but we always had full-cream during the war and grew up on it and recent info. was published that natural is best! Cheers, Dave
> 
>> On 10/11/2020 21:07, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>> I should add that on the instruction of our Dietician daughter, and our personal preference, we buy semi-skimmed. Maybe you should too?
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>> 
>>>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 21:02, Nick Ware <Waresound at msn.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Try Sainsbury?s. My wife Judi is high vulnerability due to Sarcodoisis and medication etc., and so am I because compared to her I am an old codger, so we have a weekly home delivery. The milk always has a long enough use-by date to last well over a week. No problem. We always buy the 2pint plastic bottles, and of course always recycle the empties along with the embarassingly large number of wine empties. On the one occasion that the milk didn?t last the week, a quick phone call and it was replaced free of charge.
>>> Needless to say, we trust and hope that the bottles don?t get dumped in the sea!
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nick.
>>> 
>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>> 
>>>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From alawrance1 at me.com  Tue Nov 10 16:18:57 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 22:18:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB086310FFFC4E9F10B69C6EDDA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VE1P189MB086310FFFC4E9F10B69C6EDDA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <EF103157-0C2B-498B-B162-7616A97AEE1D@me.com>

We've had our milk delivered in glass bottles for 30+ years.

It used to be very environmentally friendly when delivered by electric float, but our round is so large that's not practicable.

I've never understood why smashing up bottles to melt them down to make new ones is considered environmentally friendly when it's obvious that it must use much more energy than a steam cleaning/sterilising machine. I suspect the only people in favour of not re-using wine bottles are wine bottle manufacturers.  If water soluble glue was used for labels, it would be perfectly practicable to re-use bottles, they're almost all a few standard shapes and capacity.

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 10 Nov 2020, at 21:08, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I should add that on the instruction of our Dietician daughter, and our personal preference, we buy semi-skimmed. Maybe you should too?
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 21:02, Nick Ware <Waresound at msn.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Try Sainsbury?s. My wife Judi is high vulnerability due to Sarcodoisis and medication etc., and so am I because compared to her I am an old codger, so we have a weekly home delivery. The milk always has a long enough use-by date to last well over a week. No problem. We always buy the 2pint plastic bottles, and of course always recycle the empties along with the embarassingly large number of wine empties. On the one occasion that the milk didn?t last the week, a quick phone call and it was replaced free of charge.
>> Needless to say, we trust and hope that the bottles don?t get dumped in the sea!
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>> 
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>> 
>>>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From Waresound at msn.com  Tue Nov 10 16:47:46 2020
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 22:47:46 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <EF103157-0C2B-498B-B162-7616A97AEE1D@me.com>
References: <VE1P189MB086310FFFC4E9F10B69C6EDDA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<EF103157-0C2B-498B-B162-7616A97AEE1D@me.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB08639DB02ADDDC68A2A7BDD6A7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

The whole packaging scenario sickens me. There are just two of us in our house, and it?s almost impossible to buy products that aren?t in unnecessary plastic packaging, cardboard, metal, glass etc. (all of which we?re paying for). Our recycling bin is crammed to the top every fortnightly collection. It makes no ecological sense at all!
The village market, on the other hand - everything goes loose into a tatty old shopping bag we?ve had for decades.
Gatwick airport, on the other hand (I have three!), I get a huge satisfaction from seeing no aircraft leave or arrive there for several hours at a time.
Best,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 10 Nov 2020, at 22:19, Alasdair Lawrance <alawrance1 at me.com> wrote:
> 
> ?We've had our milk delivered in glass bottles for 30+ years.
> 
> It used to be very environmentally friendly when delivered by electric float, but our round is so large that's not practicable.
> 
> I've never understood why smashing up bottles to melt them down to make new ones is considered environmentally friendly when it's obvious that it must use much more energy than a steam cleaning/sterilising machine. I suspect the only people in favour of not re-using wine bottles are wine bottle manufacturers.  If water soluble glue was used for labels, it would be perfectly practicable to re-use bottles, they're almost all a few standard shapes and capacity.
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 21:08, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I should add that on the instruction of our Dietician daughter, and our personal preference, we buy semi-skimmed. Maybe you should too?
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>> 
>>>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 21:02, Nick Ware <Waresound at msn.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Try Sainsbury?s. My wife Judi is high vulnerability due to Sarcodoisis and medication etc., and so am I because compared to her I am an old codger, so we have a weekly home delivery. The milk always has a long enough use-by date to last well over a week. No problem. We always buy the 2pint plastic bottles, and of course always recycle the empties along with the embarassingly large number of wine empties. On the one occasion that the milk didn?t last the week, a quick phone call and it was replaced free of charge.
>>> Needless to say, we trust and hope that the bottles don?t get dumped in the sea!
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nick.
>>> 
>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>> 
>>>>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From mibridge at mac.com  Tue Nov 10 17:17:24 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2020 23:17:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <EF103157-0C2B-498B-B162-7616A97AEE1D@me.com>
References: <VE1P189MB086310FFFC4E9F10B69C6EDDA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<EF103157-0C2B-498B-B162-7616A97AEE1D@me.com>
Message-ID: <BFDC5CD9-3420-4062-AB03-388057C862C0@mac.com>

We have deliveries from Sainsbury?s who have been the only company we?ve found to offer slots just because we?re ancient from almost the outset of lockdown. Others needed our names to be on a government list and getting on to that seemed tortuous, but soon after applying to them, it seems that Sainsbury?s accepted details from our Nectar card registration as showing proof of age. 

We too have found that they honour their promise on quality without quibbling and when they can?t supply what you ordered, sometimes send a higher priced product, then give you a refund voucher for the difference. 

They?ve made a few mistakes along the way (but then again, too few to mention!) but last week?s made us laugh, because in place of the three two pint bottles of milk which we had ordered (semi-skimmed, I hasten to add), they sent three six pint bottles ~ so over two gallons of milk for a couple of pensioners! We normally freeze some of our milk anyway, so we?ve popped two of these in the freezer and will see if they survive long enough after thawing. I don?t mind milk on the turn on porridge or muesli as it?s only like plain yogurt, but it?s definitely a no-no in tea or coffee.

I have to admit, Dave, that I hadn?t noticed the big difference in price until you pointed it out ~ in a 2 pint bottle, it?s 70p a litre; the 4 pint is 48p a litre; the 6 pint is 45p a litre. I wonder why there is so much greater a difference between the 2 and 4 pint sizes, than between the 4 and 6 pint. Even at the higher price, I believe the farming community deserves a better return on their labours. 

And for the bargain hunters amongst us, Waitrose is currently offering Remy Martin VSOP and 1738 at reduced prices ~ cheaper than Sinsbury?s! Other retailers are available.

Mike G


> On 10 Nov 2020, at 22:18, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> We've had our milk delivered in glass bottles for 30+ years.
> 
> It used to be very environmentally friendly when delivered by electric float, but our round is so large that's not practicable.
> 
> I've never understood why smashing up bottles to melt them down to make new ones is considered environmentally friendly when it's obvious that it must use much more energy than a steam cleaning/sterilising machine. I suspect the only people in favour of not re-using wine bottles are wine bottle manufacturers.  If water soluble glue was used for labels, it would be perfectly practicable to re-use bottles, they're almost all a few standard shapes and capacity.
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 21:08, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I should add that on the instruction of our Dietician daughter, and our personal preference, we buy semi-skimmed. Maybe you should too?
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>> 
>>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 21:02, Nick Ware <Waresound at msn.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Try Sainsbury?s. My wife Judi is high vulnerability due to Sarcodoisis and medication etc., and so am I because compared to her I am an old codger, so we have a weekly home delivery. The milk always has a long enough use-by date to last well over a week. No problem. We always buy the 2pint plastic bottles, and of course always recycle the empties along with the embarassingly large number of wine empties. On the one occasion that the milk didn?t last the week, a quick phone call and it was replaced free of charge.
>>> Needless to say, we trust and hope that the bottles don?t get dumped in the sea!
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nick.
>>> 
>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>> 
>>>>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From davesound at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 10 18:27:51 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 00:27:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB086310FFFC4E9F10B69C6EDDA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<VE1P189MB0863F47163E12BAAAAB2D4D1A7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<VE1P189MB086310FFFC4E9F10B69C6EDDA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <58cd782cfedavesound@btinternet.com>

In article
<VE1P189MB086310FFFC4E9F10B69C6EDDA7E90 at VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
   Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I should add that on the instruction of our Dietician daughter, and our
> personal preference, we buy semi-skimmed. Maybe you should too?

I pay the extra for filtered. That has no trouble lasting the week between
deliveries.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 10 18:59:19 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 00:59:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket deals
In-Reply-To: <BFDC5CD9-3420-4062-AB03-388057C862C0@mac.com>
References: <VE1P189MB086310FFFC4E9F10B69C6EDDA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<EF103157-0C2B-498B-B162-7616A97AEE1D@me.com>
	<BFDC5CD9-3420-4062-AB03-388057C862C0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <d8bba77d-ede1-c06b-70f3-4fd0a971cbec@btinternet.com>

Asda are also offering to luscious 'Duke of Clarence' Madeira for ?10 
instead of ?12. Well worth a swig or several! They stopped selling my 
favourite red a couple of years ago, goodness knows why, as it is the 
nicest red I have ever tasted below ?10 (I have never tasted one above 
?10!) and I can only buy it in Morrisons now. Some years ago Tesco had a 
Penfolds 'Grange' on it's shelves at ?108 and another red for ?70. I saw 
a man with both, and more wines in his trolley and asked him if he was 
mad! He asked if I had ever tasted them (silly question!) and said that 
if I had I would know why he bought them! He was Irish by the way. Tesco 
don't stock them any more in our local branch, which has just undergone 
a complete refit of shelves and coolers etc. so now I can't find 
anything! I did find the ?10 Meal Deal though where you can save ?8.60 
on a main, side, desert and wine and is always very nice! Cheers, hic, Dave

On 10/11/2020 23:17, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
> We have deliveries from Sainsbury?s who have been the only company we?ve found to offer slots just because we?re ancient from almost the outset of lockdown. Others needed our names to be on a government list and getting on to that seemed tortuous, but soon after applying to them, it seems that Sainsbury?s accepted details from our Nectar card registration as showing proof of age.
>
> We too have found that they honour their promise on quality without quibbling and when they can?t supply what you ordered, sometimes send a higher priced product, then give you a refund voucher for the difference.
>
> They?ve made a few mistakes along the way (but then again, too few to mention!) but last week?s made us laugh, because in place of the three two pint bottles of milk which we had ordered (semi-skimmed, I hasten to add), they sent three six pint bottles ~ so over two gallons of milk for a couple of pensioners! We normally freeze some of our milk anyway, so we?ve popped two of these in the freezer and will see if they survive long enough after thawing. I don?t mind milk on the turn on porridge or muesli as it?s only like plain yogurt, but it?s definitely a no-no in tea or coffee.
>
> I have to admit, Dave, that I hadn?t noticed the big difference in price until you pointed it out ~ in a 2 pint bottle, it?s 70p a litre; the 4 pint is 48p a litre; the 6 pint is 45p a litre. I wonder why there is so much greater a difference between the 2 and 4 pint sizes, than between the 4 and 6 pint. Even at the higher price, I believe the farming community deserves a better return on their labours.
>
> And for the bargain hunters amongst us, Waitrose is currently offering Remy Martin VSOP and 1738 at reduced prices ~ cheaper than Sinsbury?s! Other retailers are available.
>
> Mike G
>
>
>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 22:18, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> We've had our milk delivered in glass bottles for 30+ years.
>>
>> It used to be very environmentally friendly when delivered by electric float, but our round is so large that's not practicable.
>>
>> I've never understood why smashing up bottles to melt them down to make new ones is considered environmentally friendly when it's obvious that it must use much more energy than a steam cleaning/sterilising machine. I suspect the only people in favour of not re-using wine bottles are wine bottle manufacturers.  If water soluble glue was used for labels, it would be perfectly practicable to re-use bottles, they're almost all a few standard shapes and capacity.
>>
>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>
>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 21:08, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?I should add that on the instruction of our Dietician daughter, and our personal preference, we buy semi-skimmed. Maybe you should too?
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nick.
>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>>
>>>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 21:02, Nick Ware <Waresound at msn.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?Try Sainsbury?s. My wife Judi is high vulnerability due to Sarcodoisis and medication etc., and so am I because compared to her I am an old codger, so we have a weekly home delivery. The milk always has a long enough use-by date to last well over a week. No problem. We always buy the 2pint plastic bottles, and of course always recycle the empties along with the embarassingly large number of wine empties. On the one occasion that the milk didn?t last the week, a quick phone call and it was replaced free of charge.
>>>> Needless to say, we trust and hope that the bottles don?t get dumped in the sea!
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Nick.
>>>>
>>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>>>
>>>>>> On 10 Nov 2020, at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> ?Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 10 19:15:01 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 01:15:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Musings
Message-ID: <af404d48-d448-2d55-c53a-8491396b7be3@btinternet.com>

While the Madeira works it's magic I was thinking about my working years 
and how I re-wired the house, re-plumbed the house, installed central 
heating, maintained ailing cars, looked after 2 small children while my 
wife worked in the NHS, and so on, and went away for a few weeks working 
18 hour days in foreign lands. Now, I wake up thinking of the tasks to 
do and I really don't want to get out of bed! My body has given up on 
me! My knee joints are so painful that all I want to do is sit or sleep! 
I have tried every 'cure' on the market and nothing improves the 
situation. Pills, creams and physio just can't replace cartilage! So 
every task now is difficult and painful. But, we have to try, I see that 
there are people with far worst conditions than me who are struggling on 
without the great benefit of our super pension. Count your blessings, 
chaps! Cheers, Dave.



From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 22:44:50 2020
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 04:44:50 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>

Back to the original subject! Yes. For several months, our blue-top milk
has been going off before the best-before date. I expect that in extremely
hot weather, but not normally. I was suspecting that our fridge might need
adjusting, but have yet to measure the internal temperature. Low-fat
green-top milk lasts longer, but I find it wrecks the flavour of coffee, so
I never use it. In my opinion, high-fat Jersey milk makes even better
coffee, but it goes off extremely quickly, so I avoid that too.

I hope Dave has more success with freezing milk than I did. I have tried
freezing unopened 4-pint cartons of milk and I have also poured half into
2-pint cartons and frozen that. The main problem was that the milk expanded
on freezing, so frozen milk pushed off the caps and protruded through the
tops of the containers. On thawing before use, this milk was lost or made a
mess unless the carton was standng in a larger container. Another problem
was that thawing, even at room temperature, took a long time, with a
"milkburg" floating around for ages. I suppose that thawing should be done
in the fridge, but that takes longer still. I no longer bother to freeze
milk.

I know that current health advice is to use green-top milk instead of
blue-top. But I prefer to reduce my fat intake by drinking less milk. That
enables me to stick with blue-top and enjoy its superior flavour. And
anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the health gurus eventually advise that
new research has revealed blue-top to be the more healthy milk to drink.
After all, I remember that, many years ago, when about to visit a hot
country, we were strongly advised by medics to take salt tablets with us to
compensate for the salt lost in sweat. But, more recently, I've never seen
any encouragement to take salt at any time, except in recipes. Precisely
the opposite, in fact. Do they still make the tablets?

KW


On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is
> going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in
> Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about
> a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided
> to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it
> was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in
> glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in
> bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint
> containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Wed Nov 11 02:15:01 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 08:15:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] A video converter
In-Reply-To: <0E573BBE-2388-4E6B-9C81-FBFA37803C54@sky.com>
References: <0E573BBE-2388-4E6B-9C81-FBFA37803C54.ref@sky.com>
	<0E573BBE-2388-4E6B-9C81-FBFA37803C54@sky.com>
Message-ID: <c37fece6-e32b-ba2c-1789-2e1f11193e50@imixmics.co.uk>

I use Format Factory - converts anything to anything. Highly 
recommended, as long as you can get it for your Mac.

John Nottage

On 10/11/2020 18:16, B Wilkinson via Tech1 wrote:
> I have a series of programmes I worked on recorded in an old format called SVCD ( don?t ask!) but my MacBook Pro will not recognise the files. Can anyone help in any way such as recommending a video converter programme suitable for a Mac that could convert them to DVD please. ( preferably free, I am a pensioner shielding) ?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 



From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Wed Nov 11 02:35:47 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 08:35:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <01e97313-7159-3ecc-1755-3d0e29ec1fd3@imixmics.co.uk>

We've used green top milk for ever. Never missed the creamy bit. I only 
put a splash in coffee anyway. Apart from during Lockdown 1 when they 
disappeared for a time, we've always used 1 pint cartons: anything 
bigger is too hard to manage & goes off quicker. Until they went out of 
business, we always bought local Marybelle milk: they were only down the 
road - even greener! Now it's Co-op milk, bought every few days as 
needed. As to the cost, the BBC pension removed the need to worry about 
that.

Frozen milk? I remember well getting milk off the doorstep on bitter 
winter mornings when the bottle top was several inches in the air, 
lifted on a column of frozen milk. Why freeze it when it's so easy to 
nip round the corner & buy another pint.

Likewise, we stopped using much salt years ago. None goes into cooking. 
The wife likes a bit on chips. However, we always took a small pot of 
salt with us to very hot countries to compensate for extra sweating. The 
body does need some salt. I usually get mine from ready meals & the 
morning fix of Marmite!

John Nottage

On 11/11/2020 04:44, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
> Back to the original subject! Yes. For several months, our blue-top milk 
> has been going off before the best-before date. I expect that in 
> extremely hot weather, but not normally. I was suspecting that our 
> fridge might need adjusting, but have yet to measure the internal 
> temperature. Low-fat green-top milk lasts longer, but I find it wrecks 
> the flavour of coffee, so I never use it. In my opinion, high-fat Jersey 
> milk makes even better coffee, but it goes off extremely quickly, so I 
> avoid that too.
> 
> I hope Dave has more success with freezing milk than I did. I have tried 
> freezing unopened 4-pint cartons of milk and I have also poured half 
> into 2-pint cartons and frozen that. The main problem was that the milk 
> expanded on freezing, so frozen milk pushed off the caps and protruded 
> through the tops of the containers. On thawing before use, this milk was 
> lost or made a mess unless the carton was standng in a larger container. 
> Another problem was that thawing, even at room temperature, took a long 
> time, with a "milkburg" floating around for ages. I suppose that thawing 
> should be done in the fridge, but that takes longer still. I no longer 
> bother to freeze milk.
> 
> I know that current health advice is to use green-top milk instead of 
> blue-top. But I prefer to reduce my fat intake by drinking less milk. 
> That enables me to stick with blue-top and enjoy its superior flavour. 
> And anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the health gurus eventually 
> advise that new research has revealed blue-top to be the more healthy 
> milk to drink. After all, I remember that, many years ago, when about to 
> visit a hot country, we were strongly advised by medics to take salt 
> tablets with us to compensate for the salt lost in sweat. But, more 
> recently, I've never seen any encouragement to take salt at any time, 
> except in recipes. Precisely the opposite, in fact. Do they still make 
> the tablets?
> 
> KW
> 
> 
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
>     Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is
>     going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in
>     Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about
>     a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided
>     to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it
>     was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in
>     glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in
>     bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint
>     containers but that would cost 50p. more!? Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 



From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Wed Nov 11 03:10:58 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 09:10:58 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F9A332DBF3344F80B081CFD2931C1AFB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

For many years my wife kept a herd of dairy goats and, as we lived in the middle of nowhere, running short of the white stuff meant no more effort than hauling one of them in for my wife to extract a quick pint. In case you should wonder how with twice daily hand milking of the herd we could ever run out, we used to freeze and supply a couple of retail outlets as well as a number of local folk with particular requirements which meant occasionally we failed to keep quite enough back for ourselves.

The preamble leads to me passing on in good faith what our understanding was of why it was possible to freeze goat?s milk without problem whereas cow?s milk could present difficulty. Unless the wisdom of that era has been superseded, the explanation lay in the size of the fat molecules (smaller apparently in the case of goats) which, with the larger molecules of cow?s milk, led to a loss of homogenisation on thawing. This difference was also believed to explain the better digestibility of goat?s milk for small children who had problems with cow?s milk. There were also some local dog breeders who favoured it for whelping bitches.

We ?tested? the behaviour of cow?s milk when frozen and found the process unsuccessful. This was many years ago and I can?t offer a view on how current semi-skimmed and other low fat variants might behave. Our own goats milk typically tested at about 3% butterfat, not greatly different to normal ?off the shelf? cow?s milk. Channel Island milk and particularly Jersey will be significantly above this figure.

As to the merits and de-merits of semi-skimmed and full cream milk it seems to me that, as with dietary guidance generally, what matters is what your overall intake is. We use semi-skimmed but purely because we prefer it on our cereals and in tea ? we would have no qualms on the healthy-eating front with 3% fat content of our total milk consumption.

Final thought. One or two suppliers make a sheep?s milk ice-cream which typically has 5% or above butterfat. There always used to be a seller at the Bath & West Show which was a mandatory port of call on our yearly visit. If you get the chance, try one. For that matter Roquefort cheese is another good reason to like sheep (I think the usual breed for milking sheep is Friesland, but that may be old knowledge too).

Dave Newbitt. 

From: Keith Wicks via Tech1 
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 4:44 AM
To: dave.mdv ; tech1 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk

Back to the original subject! Yes. For several months, our blue-top milk has been going off before the best-before date. I expect that in extremely hot weather, but not normally. I was suspecting that our fridge might need adjusting, but have yet to measure the internal temperature. Low-fat green-top milk lasts longer, but I find it wrecks the flavour of coffee, so I never use it. In my opinion, high-fat Jersey milk makes even better coffee, but it goes off extremely quickly, so I avoid that too. 

I hope Dave has more success with freezing milk than I did. I have tried freezing unopened 4-pint cartons of milk and I have also poured half into 2-pint cartons and frozen that. The main problem was that the milk expanded on freezing, so frozen milk pushed off the caps and protruded through the tops of the containers. On thawing before use, this milk was lost or made a mess unless the carton was standng in a larger container. Another problem was that thawing, even at room temperature, took a long time, with a "milkburg" floating around for ages. I suppose that thawing should be done in the fridge, but that takes longer still. I no longer bother to freeze milk.

I know that current health advice is to use green-top milk instead of blue-top. But I prefer to reduce my fat intake by drinking less milk. That enables me to stick with blue-top and enjoy its superior flavour. And anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the health gurus eventually advise that new research has revealed blue-top to be the more healthy milk to drink. After all, I remember that, many years ago, when about to visit a hot country, we were strongly advised by medics to take salt tablets with us to compensate for the salt lost in sweat. But, more recently, I've never seen any encouragement to take salt at any time, except in recipes. Precisely the opposite, in fact. Do they still make the tablets?

KW


On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

  Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is 
  going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in 
  Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about 
  a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided 
  to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it 
  was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in 
  glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in 
  bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint 
  containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave


  -- 
  Tech1 mailing list
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From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Nov 11 03:29:56 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 09:29:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <F9A332DBF3344F80B081CFD2931C1AFB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<F9A332DBF3344F80B081CFD2931C1AFB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <DF441A48-E29A-4C0A-9B93-9B17159533FE@me.com>

With regards to freezing milk, we usually buy green top, semi skimmed milk and sometimes put a one pint container of it in the freezer in case we run out.  The lower fat content of semi-skimmed seems to make is OK for freezing.  The freezing process does seem to change it once defrosted, but it's still perfectly fine for breakfast cereal and in tea.

When it comes to defrosting, leaving it in our fridge takes more than 24 hours to defrost, so we put the frozen container into a big mixing bowl full of cold water, changing the water every few hours if necessary.  It defrosts quite nicely that way and if left overnight, will be ready for the morning.

Healthy eating advice changes over time.  A few years ago we were being told to avoid butter and to use substitute spreads like Flora.  The last diet advice I was given was that butter ( in moderation ) can be a healthier option than spreads because spreads contain emulsifiers and other chemicals.  I know that I don't understand the science, but I do believe that a natural product is unlikely to be too bad for me. My forbears ate that sort of thing all the time, and on my mother's side, there were a lot of people who reached a good age ( my aunt lived to 103 ).

Alan Taylor


On 11 Nov 2020, at 11 Nov . 09:10, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> For many years my wife kept a herd of dairy goats and, as we lived in the middle of nowhere, running short of the white stuff meant no more effort than hauling one of them in for my wife to extract a quick pint. In case you should wonder how with twice daily hand milking of the herd we could ever run out, we used to freeze and supply a couple of retail outlets as well as a number of local folk with particular requirements which meant occasionally we failed to keep quite enough back for ourselves.
>  
> The preamble leads to me passing on in good faith what our understanding was of why it was possible to freeze goat?s milk without problem whereas cow?s milk could present difficulty. Unless the wisdom of that era has been superseded, the explanation lay in the size of the fat molecules (smaller apparently in the case of goats) which, with the larger molecules of cow?s milk, led to a loss of homogenisation on thawing. This difference was also believed to explain the better digestibility of goat?s milk for small children who had problems with cow?s milk. There were also some local dog breeders who favoured it for whelping bitches.
>  
> We ?tested? the behaviour of cow?s milk when frozen and found the process unsuccessful. This was many years ago and I can?t offer a view on how current semi-skimmed and other low fat variants might behave. Our own goats milk typically tested at about 3% butterfat, not greatly different to normal ?off the shelf? cow?s milk. Channel Island milk and particularly Jersey will be significantly above this figure.
>  
> As to the merits and de-merits of semi-skimmed and full cream milk it seems to me that, as with dietary guidance generally, what matters is what your overall intake is. We use semi-skimmed but purely because we prefer it on our cereals and in tea ? we would have no qualms on the healthy-eating front with 3% fat content of our total milk consumption.
>  
> Final thought. One or two suppliers make a sheep?s milk ice-cream which typically has 5% or above butterfat. There always used to be a seller at the Bath & West Show which was a mandatory port of call on our yearly visit. If you get the chance, try one. For that matter Roquefort cheese is another good reason to like sheep (I think the usual breed for milking sheep is Friesland, but that may be old knowledge too).
>  
> Dave Newbitt.
>  
> From: Keith Wicks via Tech1
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 4:44 AM
> To: dave.mdv ; tech1
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
>  
> Back to the original subject! Yes. For several months, our blue-top milk has been going off before the best-before date. I expect that in extremely hot weather, but not normally. I was suspecting that our fridge might need adjusting, but have yet to measure the internal temperature. Low-fat green-top milk lasts longer, but I find it wrecks the flavour of coffee, so I never use it. In my opinion, high-fat Jersey milk makes even better coffee, but it goes off extremely quickly, so I avoid that too.
>  
> I hope Dave has more success with freezing milk than I did. I have tried freezing unopened 4-pint cartons of milk and I have also poured half into 2-pint cartons and frozen that. The main problem was that the milk expanded on freezing, so frozen milk pushed off the caps and protruded through the tops of the containers. On thawing before use, this milk was lost or made a mess unless the carton was standng in a larger container. Another problem was that thawing, even at room temperature, took a long time, with a "milkburg" floating around for ages. I suppose that thawing should be done in the fridge, but that takes longer still. I no longer bother to freeze milk.
>  
> I know that current health advice is to use green-top milk instead of blue-top. But I prefer to reduce my fat intake by drinking less milk. That enables me to stick with blue-top and enjoy its superior flavour. And anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the health gurus eventually advise that new research has revealed blue-top to be the more healthy milk to drink. After all, I remember that, many years ago, when about to visit a hot country, we were strongly advised by medics to take salt tablets with us to compensate for the salt lost in sweat. But, more recently, I've never seen any encouragement to take salt at any time, except in recipes. Precisely the opposite, in fact. Do they still make the tablets?
>  
> KW
>  
>  
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is 
> going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in 
> Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about 
> a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided 
> to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it 
> was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in 
> glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in 
> bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint 
> containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From doug at puddifoot.me  Wed Nov 11 03:30:13 2020
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Puddifoot(Doug))
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 09:30:13 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <01e97313-7159-3ecc-1755-3d0e29ec1fd3@imixmics.co.uk>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com><CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<01e97313-7159-3ecc-1755-3d0e29ec1fd3@imixmics.co.uk>
Message-ID: <F86048F4B202414EA16845CF7E0BFE47@NewOffice>

I have a different problem with milk. I have a milk frother which I use for 
my morning coffee, but I find it difficult to get milk that will froth 
properly. Most produce a weak froth which collapses after a few minutes. Out 
local milkman can deliver whole milk, homogenised, and full cream channel 
islands. All fail, as does the milk from the local shop and from the local 
Co-Op.
I have to rely on our regular delivery from Asda, and try and make a four 
pinta last two weeks. This makes perfect froth. However my wife made 
cauliflower cheese for lunch yesterday, so no more frothy coffee for a week! 
Any suggestions?

Doug

-----Original Message----- 
From: John Nottage via Tech1
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 8:35 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk

We've used green top milk for ever. Never missed the creamy bit. I only
put a splash in coffee anyway. Apart from during Lockdown 1 when they
disappeared for a time, we've always used 1 pint cartons: anything
bigger is too hard to manage & goes off quicker. Until they went out of
business, we always bought local Marybelle milk: they were only down the
road - even greener! Now it's Co-op milk, bought every few days as
needed. As to the cost, the BBC pension removed the need to worry about
that.

Frozen milk? I remember well getting milk off the doorstep on bitter
winter mornings when the bottle top was several inches in the air,
lifted on a column of frozen milk. Why freeze it when it's so easy to
nip round the corner & buy another pint.

Likewise, we stopped using much salt years ago. None goes into cooking.
The wife likes a bit on chips. However, we always took a small pot of
salt with us to very hot countries to compensate for extra sweating. The
body does need some salt. I usually get mine from ready meals & the
morning fix of Marmite!

John Nottage


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From relong at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 11 03:49:49 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 09:49:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <DF441A48-E29A-4C0A-9B93-9B17159533FE@me.com>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<F9A332DBF3344F80B081CFD2931C1AFB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<DF441A48-E29A-4C0A-9B93-9B17159533FE@me.com>
Message-ID: <EF058049-290E-4F57-8386-E5E36424EBFF@btinternet.com>

Arla Cravendale milk is filtered through ceramic filters to remove bacteria ,tastes creamier than normal can be frozen and lasts for ages.
I dislike skimmed milk (it used to be used to clean dairy floors) my wife prefers it , so we have both , and they keep fresh .
We sometimes have unpasteurised milk , butter, cheese, cream and ice cream all taste exceptional but at added cost.
Such is life.


> On 11 Nov 2020, at 09:29, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> With regards to freezing milk, we usually buy green top, semi skimmed milk and sometimes put a one pint container of it in the freezer in case we run out.  The lower fat content of semi-skimmed seems to make is OK for freezing.  The freezing process does seem to change it once defrosted, but it's still perfectly fine for breakfast cereal and in tea.
> 
> When it comes to defrosting, leaving it in our fridge takes more than 24 hours to defrost, so we put the frozen container into a big mixing bowl full of cold water, changing the water every few hours if necessary.  It defrosts quite nicely that way and if left overnight, will be ready for the morning.
> 
> Healthy eating advice changes over time.  A few years ago we were being told to avoid butter and to use substitute spreads like Flora.  The last diet advice I was given was that butter ( in moderation ) can be a healthier option than spreads because spreads contain emulsifiers and other chemicals.  I know that I don't understand the science, but I do believe that a natural product is unlikely to be too bad for me. My forbears ate that sort of thing all the time, and on my mother's side, there were a lot of people who reached a good age ( my aunt lived to 103 ).
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
> On 11 Nov 2020, at 11 Nov . 09:10, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
>> For many years my wife kept a herd of dairy goats and, as we lived in the middle of nowhere, running short of the white stuff meant no more effort than hauling one of them in for my wife to extract a quick pint. In case you should wonder how with twice daily hand milking of the herd we could ever run out, we used to freeze and supply a couple of retail outlets as well as a number of local folk with particular requirements which meant occasionally we failed to keep quite enough back for ourselves.
>>  
>> The preamble leads to me passing on in good faith what our understanding was of why it was possible to freeze goat?s milk without problem whereas cow?s milk could present difficulty. Unless the wisdom of that era has been superseded, the explanation lay in the size of the fat molecules (smaller apparently in the case of goats) which, with the larger molecules of cow?s milk, led to a loss of homogenisation on thawing. This difference was also believed to explain the better digestibility of goat?s milk for small children who had problems with cow?s milk. There were also some local dog breeders who favoured it for whelping bitches.
>>  
>> We ?tested? the behaviour of cow?s milk when frozen and found the process unsuccessful. This was many years ago and I can?t offer a view on how current semi-skimmed and other low fat variants might behave. Our own goats milk typically tested at about 3% butterfat, not greatly different to normal ?off the shelf? cow?s milk. Channel Island milk and particularly Jersey will be significantly above this figure.
>>  
>> As to the merits and de-merits of semi-skimmed and full cream milk it seems to me that, as with dietary guidance generally, what matters is what your overall intake is. We use semi-skimmed but purely because we prefer it on our cereals and in tea ? we would have no qualms on the healthy-eating front with 3% fat content of our total milk consumption.
>>  
>> Final thought. One or two suppliers make a sheep?s milk ice-cream which typically has 5% or above butterfat. There always used to be a seller at the Bath & West Show which was a mandatory port of call on our yearly visit. If you get the chance, try one. For that matter Roquefort cheese is another good reason to like sheep (I think the usual breed for milking sheep is Friesland, but that may be old knowledge too).
>>  
>> Dave Newbitt.
>>  
>> From: Keith Wicks via Tech1 <>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 4:44 AM
>> To: dave.mdv <> ; tech1 <>
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
>>  
>> Back to the original subject! Yes. For several months, our blue-top milk has been going off before the best-before date. I expect that in extremely hot weather, but not normally. I was suspecting that our fridge might need adjusting, but have yet to measure the internal temperature. Low-fat green-top milk lasts longer, but I find it wrecks the flavour of coffee, so I never use it. In my opinion, high-fat Jersey milk makes even better coffee, but it goes off extremely quickly, so I avoid that too.
>>  
>> I hope Dave has more success with freezing milk than I did. I have tried freezing unopened 4-pint cartons of milk and I have also poured half into 2-pint cartons and frozen that. The main problem was that the milk expanded on freezing, so frozen milk pushed off the caps and protruded through the tops of the containers. On thawing before use, this milk was lost or made a mess unless the carton was standng in a larger container. Another problem was that thawing, even at room temperature, took a long time, with a "milkburg" floating around for ages. I suppose that thawing should be done in the fridge, but that takes longer still. I no longer bother to freeze milk.
>>  
>> I know that current health advice is to use green-top milk instead of blue-top. But I prefer to reduce my fat intake by drinking less milk. That enables me to stick with blue-top and enjoy its superior flavour. And anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the health gurus eventually advise that new research has revealed blue-top to be the more healthy milk to drink. After all, I remember that, many years ago, when about to visit a hot country, we were strongly advised by medics to take salt tablets with us to compensate for the salt lost in sweat. But, more recently, I've never seen any encouragement to take salt at any time, except in recipes. Precisely the opposite, in fact. Do they still make the tablets?
>>  
>> KW
>>  
>>  
>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <>> wrote:
>> Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is 
>> going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in 
>> Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about 
>> a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided 
>> to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it 
>> was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in 
>> glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in 
>> bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint 
>> containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
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>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Wed Nov 11 03:57:25 2020
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 09:57:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] A video converter
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB086310851688630151A574DBA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <71D29206-D3C2-45F3-8D34-C20A1BBE3FCA@me.com>,
	<0A3C2A98-BDF9-429D-90CC-8A2431484724@me.com>
	<VE1P189MB086310851688630151A574DBA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <1211569915.6779.1605088645289@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From Waresound at msn.com  Wed Nov 11 05:30:11 2020
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 11:30:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Tascam CDR machine gone!
In-Reply-To: <1211569915.6779.1605088645289@email.ionos.co.uk>
References: <71D29206-D3C2-45F3-8D34-C20A1BBE3FCA@me.com>,
	<0A3C2A98-BDF9-429D-90CC-8A2431484724@me.com>
	<VE1P189MB086310851688630151A574DBA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<1211569915.6779.1605088645289@email.ionos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB08636B985A3B6BD834DE85D5A7E80@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Just to say, the CDR machine is already on its way to a new home in Somerset!
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

[cid:FEA7308C-B670-462F-A80A-814397F933CA]
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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Wed Nov 11 05:37:41 2020
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 11:37:41 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Tascam CDR machine gone!
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB08636B985A3B6BD834DE85D5A7E80@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <71D29206-D3C2-45F3-8D34-C20A1BBE3FCA@me.com>,
	<0A3C2A98-BDF9-429D-90CC-8A2431484724@me.com>
	<VE1P189MB086310851688630151A574DBA7E90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<1211569915.6779.1605088645289@email.ionos.co.uk>
	<VE1P189MB08636B985A3B6BD834DE85D5A7E80@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <2027569240.14794.1605094661577@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From techtone at protonmail.com  Wed Nov 11 14:33:50 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 20:33:50 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <DF441A48-E29A-4C0A-9B93-9B17159533FE@me.com>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<F9A332DBF3344F80B081CFD2931C1AFB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<DF441A48-E29A-4C0A-9B93-9B17159533FE@me.com>
Message-ID: <eBYDnG6STXSFXgUR9nRZSxqti4QEtCf_ZePWAqdjr0xJwHbN-HoQqp_kSMUjLTgkSd1g5eSwF-jOkgWFiAPkpXQvJHQ0rtg8ldytCYslKpI=@protonmail.com>

Just catching up on this thread (and others) but I too had noticed milk going off before its sell-by date. My wife can only use goat's milk, and I stick to cow's semi. But both could be off, and I began to suspect the fridge, which towards the end of last year began intermittently to make a 'buzzy' noise. So, just before (fortunately) the first lockdown we purchased a new Bosch fridge/freezer, and we've not had the problem at all this year.

The goat's milk freezes well, which is just as well as we too are reliant on deliveries, and goat's milk is only available in 1 ltr containers, and doesn't always turn up in the delivery (the 'unavailability' of basic items is the bane of our online shopping and delivery). Round here, Waitrose is the most reliable supplier, Sainsbury and Tesco neck and neck in the middle, and Morrisons is dreadful, which is a shame, because in their local store, the quality of fresh fruit, vegetables, meat and fish far surpasses the rubbish they send out in the van.

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
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From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Nov 11 15:02:06 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 21:02:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <eBYDnG6STXSFXgUR9nRZSxqti4QEtCf_ZePWAqdjr0xJwHbN-HoQqp_kSMUjLTgkSd1g5eSwF-jOkgWFiAPkpXQvJHQ0rtg8ldytCYslKpI=@protonmail.com>
References: <eBYDnG6STXSFXgUR9nRZSxqti4QEtCf_ZePWAqdjr0xJwHbN-HoQqp_kSMUjLTgkSd1g5eSwF-jOkgWFiAPkpXQvJHQ0rtg8ldytCYslKpI=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <2A53BFC8-4F9D-4C83-861D-ED5D1615D4F9@me.com>

All this talk of goat?s milk .... 

Last weekend we bought rather a nice cheese which was labelled as being ?hard goat?s cheese?.  I imagine those hard goats have facial tattoos and very short hair.

Alan Taylor




> On 11 Nov 2020, at 20:34, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Just catching up on this thread (and others) but I too had noticed milk going off before its sell-by date. My wife can only use goat's milk, and I stick to cow's semi. But both could be off, and I began to suspect the fridge, which towards the end of last year began intermittently to make a 'buzzy' noise. So, just before (fortunately) the first lockdown we purchased a new Bosch fridge/freezer, and we've not had the problem at all this year.
> 
> The goat's milk freezes well, which is just as well as we too are reliant on deliveries, and goat's milk is only available in 1 ltr containers, and doesn't always turn up in the delivery (the 'unavailability' of basic items is the bane of our online shopping and delivery). Round here, Waitrose is the most reliable supplier, Sainsbury and Tesco neck and neck in the middle, and Morrisons is dreadful, which is a shame, because in their local store, the quality of fresh fruit, vegetables, meat and fish far surpasses the rubbish they send out in the van.
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> 
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 11 15:41:03 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 21:41:03 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <2A53BFC8-4F9D-4C83-861D-ED5D1615D4F9@me.com>
References: <eBYDnG6STXSFXgUR9nRZSxqti4QEtCf_ZePWAqdjr0xJwHbN-HoQqp_kSMUjLTgkSd1g5eSwF-jOkgWFiAPkpXQvJHQ0rtg8ldytCYslKpI=@protonmail.com>
	<2A53BFC8-4F9D-4C83-861D-ED5D1615D4F9@me.com>
Message-ID: <02005172-32bc-6d93-3c13-5a5f6ea636b8@btinternet.com>

.... and 'Bovver Boots'! Cheers, Dave

On 11/11/2020 21:02, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> All this talk of goat?s milk ....
>
> Last weekend we bought rather a nice cheese which was labelled as 
> being ?hard goat?s cheese?. ?I imagine those hard goats have facial 
> tattoos and very short hair.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
>
>> On 11 Nov 2020, at 20:34, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Just catching up on this thread (and others) but I too had noticed 
>> milk going off before its sell-by date. My wife can only use goat's 
>> milk, and I stick to cow's semi. But both could be off, and I began 
>> to suspect the fridge, which towards the end of last year began 
>> intermittently to make a 'buzzy' noise. So, just before (fortunately) 
>> the first lockdown we purchased a new Bosch fridge/freezer, and we've 
>> not had the problem at all this year.
>>
>> The goat's milk freezes well, which is just as well as we too are 
>> reliant on deliveries, and goat's milk is only available in 1 ltr 
>> containers, and doesn't always turn up in the delivery (the 
>> 'unavailability' of basic items is the bane of our online shopping 
>> and delivery). Round here, Waitrose is the most reliable supplier, 
>> Sainsbury and Tesco neck and neck in the middle, and Morrisons is 
>> dreadful, which is a shame, because in their local store, the quality 
>> of fresh fruit, vegetables, meat and fish far surpasses the rubbish 
>> they send out in the van.
>>
>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>
>>
>> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 11 16:00:39 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 22:00:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dde0f0d3-21d3-0858-363a-9db08b696416@btinternet.com>

I recently replaced our old kitchen fridge with a new Liebherr 
under-worktop 'larder' (ie. a fridge with no freezer compartment!) and 
it indicates 5?C. constantly so I don't think that it is a storage 
temperature problem. Cheers, Dave. PS. I don't ever recall seeing 'green 
top' milk!

On 11/11/2020 04:44, Keith Wicks wrote:
> Back to the original subject! Yes. For several months, our blue-top 
> milk has been going off before the best-before date. I expect that in 
> extremely hot weather, but not normally. I was suspecting that our 
> fridge might need adjusting, but have yet to measure the internal 
> temperature. Low-fat green-top milk lasts longer, but I find it wrecks 
> the flavour of coffee, so I never use it. In my opinion, high-fat 
> Jersey milk makes even better coffee, but it goes off extremely 
> quickly, so I avoid that too.
>
> I hope Dave has more success with freezing milk than I did. I have 
> tried freezing unopened 4-pint cartons of milk and I have also poured 
> half into 2-pint cartons and frozen that. The main problem was that 
> the milk expanded on freezing, so frozen milk pushed off the caps and 
> protruded through the tops of the containers. On thawing before use, 
> this milk was lost or made a mess unless the carton was standng in a 
> larger container. Another problem was that thawing, even at room 
> temperature, took a long time, with a "milkburg" floating around for 
> ages. I suppose that thawing should be done in the fridge, but that 
> takes longer still. I no longer bother to freeze milk.
>
> I know that current health advice is to use green-top milk instead of 
> blue-top. But I prefer to reduce my fat intake by drinking less milk. 
> That enables me to stick with blue-top and enjoy its superior flavour. 
> And anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the health gurus eventually 
> advise that new research has revealed blue-top to be the more healthy 
> milk to drink. After all, I remember that, many years ago, when about 
> to visit a hot country, we were strongly advised by medics to take 
> salt tablets with us to compensate for the salt lost in sweat. But, 
> more recently, I've never seen any encouragement to take salt at any 
> time, except in recipes. Precisely the opposite, in fact. Do they 
> still make the tablets?
>
> KW
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>     Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint
>     container is
>     going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in
>     Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away
>     about
>     a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have
>     decided
>     to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it
>     was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in
>     glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk
>     delivered in
>     bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2
>     pint
>     containers but that would cost 50p. more!? Cheers, Dave
>
>
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>     <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>
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From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Nov 11 16:12:10 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 22:12:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <dde0f0d3-21d3-0858-363a-9db08b696416@btinternet.com>
References: <dde0f0d3-21d3-0858-363a-9db08b696416@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <02BE12E4-E992-4CD6-A386-03ECACC610A5@me.com>

I suspect that the life span of milk in the fridge depends on whether it remains sealed.  I?ve been on holiday for ten days or so and an unopened container of milk seemed to be OK, but I?ve also noticed that once opened and the air gets in, the life span reduces rapidly. 

Alan Taylor

> On 11 Nov 2020, at 22:00, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I recently replaced our old kitchen fridge with a new Liebherr under-worktop 'larder' (ie. a fridge with no freezer compartment!) and it indicates 5?C. constantly so I don't think that it is a storage temperature problem. Cheers, Dave. PS. I don't ever recall seeing 'green top' milk!
> 
>> On 11/11/2020 04:44, Keith Wicks wrote:
>> Back to the original subject! Yes. For several months, our blue-top milk has been going off before the best-before date. I expect that in extremely hot weather, but not normally. I was suspecting that our fridge might need adjusting, but have yet to measure the internal temperature. Low-fat green-top milk lasts longer, but I find it wrecks the flavour of coffee, so I never use it. In my opinion, high-fat Jersey milk makes even better coffee, but it goes off extremely quickly, so I avoid that too. 
>> 
>> I hope Dave has more success with freezing milk than I did. I have tried freezing unopened 4-pint cartons of milk and I have also poured half into 2-pint cartons and frozen that. The main problem was that the milk expanded on freezing, so frozen milk pushed off the caps and protruded through the tops of the containers. On thawing before use, this milk was lost or made a mess unless the carton was standng in a larger container. Another problem was that thawing, even at room temperature, took a long time, with a "milkburg" floating around for ages. I suppose that thawing should be done in the fridge, but that takes longer still. I no longer bother to freeze milk.
>> 
>> I know that current health advice is to use green-top milk instead of blue-top. But I prefer to reduce my fat intake by drinking less milk. That enables me to stick with blue-top and enjoy its superior flavour. And anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the health gurus eventually advise that new research has revealed blue-top to be the more healthy milk to drink. After all, I remember that, many years ago, when about to visit a hot country, we were strongly advised by medics to take salt tablets with us to compensate for the salt lost in sweat. But, more recently, I've never seen any encouragement to take salt at any time, except in recipes. Precisely the opposite, in fact. Do they still make the tablets?
>> 
>> KW
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is 
>>> going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in 
>>> Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about 
>>> a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided 
>>> to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it 
>>> was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in 
>>> glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in 
>>> bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint 
>>> containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 16:18:39 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 22:18:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Stories of yesteryear
Message-ID: <b7b8be8f-a0f5-6290-dbca-db1eac36014c@gmail.com>

This wasn't up the Limpopo in a leaking canoe with no paddles, but in TC4.

I was just watching The Mind of Mr J G Reader on Talking Pictures TV - 
an excellent series from 1969-70 which I missed at the time. One of the 
guests this week was Leslie Dwyer, an incredibly experienced character 
actor (see Wikipedia). It reminded me - about the same time as appearing 
on that show, he was in a Softly Softly that I worked on in TC4.? At 
some point we were sitting in a set waiting for our scene and he started 
talking about working on Baird tv in the 1930s, and how they had to be 
made up in high contrast shades just to be seen. It impressed me at the 
time that I could be talking to someone who'd been there at the 
beginning, and I don't seem to have forgotten.

Over 50 years have passed since then.

B




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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 17:25:05 2020
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2020 23:25:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <02BE12E4-E992-4CD6-A386-03ECACC610A5@me.com>
References: <02BE12E4-E992-4CD6-A386-03ECACC610A5@me.com>
Message-ID: <B27D70BC-3877-4786-B16C-DC5E77E8C651@gmail.com>

We have the same fridge in our kitchen and it keeps the green top semi-skimmed milk in plastic bottles that we have three times a week from our milkman very well, along with everything else,
Geoff



Geoff
> On 11 Nov 2020, at 22:12, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I suspect that the life span of milk in the fridge depends on whether it remains sealed.  I?ve been on holiday for ten days or so and an unopened container of milk seemed to be OK, but I?ve also noticed that once opened and the air gets in, the life span reduces rapidly. 
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
>>> On 11 Nov 2020, at 22:00, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> I recently replaced our old kitchen fridge with a new Liebherr under-worktop 'larder' (ie. a fridge with no freezer compartment!) and it indicates 5?C. constantly so I don't think that it is a storage temperature problem. Cheers, Dave. PS. I don't ever recall seeing 'green top' milk!
>> 
>>> On 11/11/2020 04:44, Keith Wicks wrote:
>>> Back to the original subject! Yes. For several months, our blue-top milk has been going off before the best-before date. I expect that in extremely hot weather, but not normally. I was suspecting that our fridge might need adjusting, but have yet to measure the internal temperature. Low-fat green-top milk lasts longer, but I find it wrecks the flavour of coffee, so I never use it. In my opinion, high-fat Jersey milk makes even better coffee, but it goes off extremely quickly, so I avoid that too. 
>>> 
>>> I hope Dave has more success with freezing milk than I did. I have tried freezing unopened 4-pint cartons of milk and I have also poured half into 2-pint cartons and frozen that. The main problem was that the milk expanded on freezing, so frozen milk pushed off the caps and protruded through the tops of the containers. On thawing before use, this milk was lost or made a mess unless the carton was standng in a larger container. Another problem was that thawing, even at room temperature, took a long time, with a "milkburg" floating around for ages. I suppose that thawing should be done in the fridge, but that takes longer still. I no longer bother to freeze milk.
>>> 
>>> I know that current health advice is to use green-top milk instead of blue-top. But I prefer to reduce my fat intake by drinking less milk. That enables me to stick with blue-top and enjoy its superior flavour. And anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the health gurus eventually advise that new research has revealed blue-top to be the more healthy milk to drink. After all, I remember that, many years ago, when about to visit a hot country, we were strongly advised by medics to take salt tablets with us to compensate for the salt lost in sweat. But, more recently, I've never seen any encouragement to take salt at any time, except in recipes. Precisely the opposite, in fact. Do they still make the tablets?
>>> 
>>> KW
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is 
>>>> going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in 
>>>> Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about 
>>>> a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided 
>>>> to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it 
>>>> was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in 
>>>> glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in 
>>>> bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint 
>>>> containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 20:56:48 2020
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:56:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <dde0f0d3-21d3-0858-363a-9db08b696416@btinternet.com>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<dde0f0d3-21d3-0858-363a-9db08b696416@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJ=Fv0PWdPe1CkcQ0+GmPGhzQAkWF0XwLt5yYbQ4tz8jcA@mail.gmail.com>

By "green-top milk", I mean semi-skimmed milk in 4-pint plastic containers
with green screw-on caps. That's how out local Asda, Sainsbury's and Co-op
supply it. All three supermarkets also sell blue-top milk, by which I mean
the "whole" milk variety, in 4-pint containers with blue caps. I had
imagined that this colour coding was used everywhere. What colour are the
caps on your semi-skimmed milk?

I do wonder just what "whole" milk is supposed to be. I'm fairly certain
that, not long ago, it used to contain 4.6 percent fat, or perhaps 4.6 g of
fat per 100 ml milk. It was additionally labelled 5% fat, with a note that
this was an approximation to the nearest one percent. Today's "whole milk
contains less fat. I suspect that the health police are interfering again.

The last milk we bought contained 1.8 g fat per 100 ml (semi skimmed) and
3.7 g fat per 100 ml "whole". Both labels bear messages advising to keep
the milk refrigerated and to consume before the "use by" date and within 3
days (of opening). I think it is designed to go off soon after it has been
open for 3 days.

KW


On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 at 22:00, dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com> wrote:

> I recently replaced our old kitchen fridge with a new Liebherr
> under-worktop 'larder' (ie. a fridge with no freezer compartment!) and it
> indicates 5?C. constantly so I don't think that it is a storage temperature
> problem. Cheers, Dave. PS. I don't ever recall seeing 'green top' milk!
> On 11/11/2020 04:44, Keith Wicks wrote:
>
> Back to the original subject! Yes. For several months, our blue-top milk
> has been going off before the best-before date. I expect that in extremely
> hot weather, but not normally. I was suspecting that our fridge might need
> adjusting, but have yet to measure the internal temperature. Low-fat
> green-top milk lasts longer, but I find it wrecks the flavour of coffee, so
> I never use it. In my opinion, high-fat Jersey milk makes even better
> coffee, but it goes off extremely quickly, so I avoid that too.
>
> I hope Dave has more success with freezing milk than I did. I have tried
> freezing unopened 4-pint cartons of milk and I have also poured half into
> 2-pint cartons and frozen that. The main problem was that the milk expanded
> on freezing, so frozen milk pushed off the caps and protruded through the
> tops of the containers. On thawing before use, this milk was lost or made a
> mess unless the carton was standng in a larger container. Another problem
> was that thawing, even at room temperature, took a long time, with a
> "milkburg" floating around for ages. I suppose that thawing should be done
> in the fridge, but that takes longer still. I no longer bother to freeze
> milk.
>
> I know that current health advice is to use green-top milk instead of
> blue-top. But I prefer to reduce my fat intake by drinking less milk. That
> enables me to stick with blue-top and enjoy its superior flavour. And
> anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the health gurus eventually advise that
> new research has revealed blue-top to be the more healthy milk to drink.
> After all, I remember that, many years ago, when about to visit a hot
> country, we were strongly advised by medics to take salt tablets with us to
> compensate for the salt lost in sweat. But, more recently, I've never seen
> any encouragement to take salt at any time, except in recipes. Precisely
> the opposite, in fact. Do they still make the tablets?
>
> KW
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is
>> going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in
>> Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about
>> a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided
>> to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it
>> was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in
>> glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in
>> bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint
>> containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>
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From waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov 12 02:26:33 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 08:26:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJ=Fv0PWdPe1CkcQ0+GmPGhzQAkWF0XwLt5yYbQ4tz8jcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<dde0f0d3-21d3-0858-363a-9db08b696416@btinternet.com>,
	<CAA=qGJ=Fv0PWdPe1CkcQ0+GmPGhzQAkWF0XwLt5yYbQ4tz8jcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB086362FB69C8F0C47031B2BCA7E70@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Here?s a little conundrum for you to debate and convince me I?m wrong:
My lovely wife likes to keep the fridge and freezer crammed as full as possible. It?s because, she says (I say, Cornish myth, inherited from her Cornish Dad), that if it?s full, it uses less electricity because everything is kept cold by what?s around it.*
I say, nonsense, you consume more energy keeping a larger mass cold.
Who?s right?

* Do I get the prize for the clumsiest, yet still grammatically correct sentence ever?!

And my other argument against the crammed-full habit is that a lot of items get lost at the back, and by the time you find them the use-by date is meaningless because it doesn?t include the year!

Sun?s shining, wow. I?ve got a flatpack garden shed to put up today.

Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 12 Nov 2020, at 02:57, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
By "green-top milk", I mean semi-skimmed milk in 4-pint plastic containers with green screw-on caps. That's how out local Asda, Sainsbury's and Co-op supply it. All three supermarkets also sell blue-top milk, by which I mean the "whole" milk variety, in 4-pint containers with blue caps. I had imagined that this colour coding was used everywhere. What colour are the caps on your semi-skimmed milk?

I do wonder just what "whole" milk is supposed to be. I'm fairly certain that, not long ago, it used to contain 4.6 percent fat, or perhaps 4.6 g of fat per 100 ml milk. It was additionally labelled 5% fat, with a note that this was an approximation to the nearest one percent. Today's "whole milk contains less fat. I suspect that the health police are interfering again.

The last milk we bought contained 1.8 g fat per 100 ml (semi skimmed) and 3.7 g fat per 100 ml "whole". Both labels bear messages advising to keep the milk refrigerated and to consume before the "use by" date and within 3 days (of opening). I think it is designed to go off soon after it has been open for 3 days.

KW


On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 at 22:00, dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com<mailto:dave.mdv at btinternet.com>> wrote:

I recently replaced our old kitchen fridge with a new Liebherr under-worktop 'larder' (ie. a fridge with no freezer compartment!) and it indicates 5?C. constantly so I don't think that it is a storage temperature problem. Cheers, Dave. PS. I don't ever recall seeing 'green top' milk!

On 11/11/2020 04:44, Keith Wicks wrote:
Back to the original subject! Yes. For several months, our blue-top milk has been going off before the best-before date. I expect that in extremely hot weather, but not normally. I was suspecting that our fridge might need adjusting, but have yet to measure the internal temperature. Low-fat green-top milk lasts longer, but I find it wrecks the flavour of coffee, so I never use it. In my opinion, high-fat Jersey milk makes even better coffee, but it goes off extremely quickly, so I avoid that too.

I hope Dave has more success with freezing milk than I did. I have tried freezing unopened 4-pint cartons of milk and I have also poured half into 2-pint cartons and frozen that. The main problem was that the milk expanded on freezing, so frozen milk pushed off the caps and protruded through the tops of the containers. On thawing before use, this milk was lost or made a mess unless the carton was standng in a larger container. Another problem was that thawing, even at room temperature, took a long time, with a "milkburg" floating around for ages. I suppose that thawing should be done in the fridge, but that takes longer still. I no longer bother to freeze milk.

I know that current health advice is to use green-top milk instead of blue-top. But I prefer to reduce my fat intake by drinking less milk. That enables me to stick with blue-top and enjoy its superior flavour. And anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the health gurus eventually advise that new research has revealed blue-top to be the more healthy milk to drink. After all, I remember that, many years ago, when about to visit a hot country, we were strongly advised by medics to take salt tablets with us to compensate for the salt lost in sweat. But, more recently, I've never seen any encouragement to take salt at any time, except in recipes. Precisely the opposite, in fact. Do they still make the tablets?

KW


On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is
going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in
Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about
a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided
to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it
was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in
glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in
bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint
containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave


--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Nov 12 02:49:41 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 08:49:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB086362FB69C8F0C47031B2BCA7E70@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VE1P189MB086362FB69C8F0C47031B2BCA7E70@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <A1553A5D-9102-42F3-9BA2-DE09B47294B1@me.com>

I worked on a show which addressed the issues of power efficiency and refrigeration.

They explained that in a vertical ( the usual type ) fridge or freezer, whenever you open the door, cold air tumbles out.  If the fridge or freezer is mostly full, there is less cold air to tumble out, which means that it won?t need so much energy to get everything down to the correct temperature once the door is closed.

Best freezers for energy efficiency were said to be chest freezers as the cold air remains trapped inside while you have the top open. Their energy efficient fridge was a modified chest freezer, running much warmer than a freezer.  Again, the cold air remained trapped while you access it.  I could see the energy efficiency advantage, but chest freezers are an awkward shape for small kitchens and the inconvenience of frequently ferreting about in a chest refrigerator probably explains why they are not a mainstream product, while chest freezers are readily available.

Alan Taylor



> On 12 Nov 2020, at 08:27, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Here?s a little conundrum for you to debate and convince me I?m wrong:
> My lovely wife likes to keep the fridge and freezer crammed as full as possible. It?s because, she says (I say, Cornish myth, inherited from her Cornish Dad), that if it?s full, it uses less electricity because everything is kept cold by what?s around it.*
> I say, nonsense, you consume more energy keeping a larger mass cold.
> Who?s right?
> 
> * Do I get the prize for the clumsiest, yet still grammatically correct sentence ever?!
> 
> And my other argument against the crammed-full habit is that a lot of items get lost at the back, and by the time you find them the use-by date is meaningless because it doesn?t include the year!
> 
> Sun?s shining, wow. I?ve got a flatpack garden shed to put up today.
> 
> Cheers,
> Nick. 
> 
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>>> On 12 Nov 2020, at 02:57, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> By "green-top milk", I mean semi-skimmed milk in 4-pint plastic containers with green screw-on caps. That's how out local Asda, Sainsbury's and Co-op supply it. All three supermarkets also sell blue-top milk, by which I mean the "whole" milk variety, in 4-pint containers with blue caps. I had imagined that this colour coding was used everywhere. What colour are the caps on your semi-skimmed milk?
>> 
>> I do wonder just what "whole" milk is supposed to be. I'm fairly certain that, not long ago, it used to contain 4.6 percent fat, or perhaps 4.6 g of fat per 100 ml milk. It was additionally labelled 5% fat, with a note that this was an approximation to the nearest one percent. Today's "whole milk contains less fat. I suspect that the health police are interfering again.
>> 
>> The last milk we bought contained 1.8 g fat per 100 ml (semi skimmed) and 3.7 g fat per 100 ml "whole". Both labels bear messages advising to keep the milk refrigerated and to consume before the "use by" date and within 3 days (of opening). I think it is designed to go off soon after it has been open for 3 days.
>> 
>> KW
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 at 22:00, dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> I recently replaced our old kitchen fridge with a new Liebherr under-worktop 'larder' (ie. a fridge with no freezer compartment!) and it indicates 5?C. constantly so I don't think that it is a storage temperature problem. Cheers, Dave. PS. I don't ever recall seeing 'green top' milk!
>>> 
>>>> On 11/11/2020 04:44, Keith Wicks wrote:
>>>> Back to the original subject! Yes. For several months, our blue-top milk has been going off before the best-before date. I expect that in extremely hot weather, but not normally. I was suspecting that our fridge might need adjusting, but have yet to measure the internal temperature. Low-fat green-top milk lasts longer, but I find it wrecks the flavour of coffee, so I never use it. In my opinion, high-fat Jersey milk makes even better coffee, but it goes off extremely quickly, so I avoid that too. 
>>>> 
>>>> I hope Dave has more success with freezing milk than I did. I have tried freezing unopened 4-pint cartons of milk and I have also poured half into 2-pint cartons and frozen that. The main problem was that the milk expanded on freezing, so frozen milk pushed off the caps and protruded through the tops of the containers. On thawing before use, this milk was lost or made a mess unless the carton was standng in a larger container. Another problem was that thawing, even at room temperature, took a long time, with a "milkburg" floating around for ages. I suppose that thawing should be done in the fridge, but that takes longer still. I no longer bother to freeze milk.
>>>> 
>>>> I know that current health advice is to use green-top milk instead of blue-top. But I prefer to reduce my fat intake by drinking less milk. That enables me to stick with blue-top and enjoy its superior flavour. And anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the health gurus eventually advise that new research has revealed blue-top to be the more healthy milk to drink. After all, I remember that, many years ago, when about to visit a hot country, we were strongly advised by medics to take salt tablets with us to compensate for the salt lost in sweat. But, more recently, I've never seen any encouragement to take salt at any time, except in recipes. Precisely the opposite, in fact. Do they still make the tablets?
>>>> 
>>>> KW
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 20:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Is anyone else finding that their whole milk in the 4 pint container is 
>>>>> going 'off' before the 'best before' date? My sister-in-law in 
>>>>> Nottingham has also noticed this, this morning I had to pour away about 
>>>>> a third of the container as it poured out like custard! I have decided 
>>>>> to split the 4 pints into two and freeze one half. I did wonder if it 
>>>>> was being in plastic which caused it so I tried storing the milk in 
>>>>> glass for a while. My daughter in Somerset still has milk delivered in 
>>>>> bottles! How quaint is that!? I could of course buy two separate 2 pint 
>>>>> containers but that would cost 50p. more!  Cheers, Dave
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 12 03:13:19 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 09:13:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJ=Fv0PWdPe1CkcQ0+GmPGhzQAkWF0XwLt5yYbQ4tz8jcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<dde0f0d3-21d3-0858-363a-9db08b696416@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=Fv0PWdPe1CkcQ0+GmPGhzQAkWF0XwLt5yYbQ4tz8jcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5facfcae.1c69fb81.75a60.3c97@mx.google.com>

Yep. Semi-skimmed in various capacities with green screw tops is stocked by Waitrose, M & S Foodhalls and Co-op around my way.
Last year, I replaced both under counter fridge and freezers with units from John Lewis (they removed the old ones f.o.c. which was good). Inspecting the opened milk last night, semi-skimmed in 1pt, the sell-by was 26th Oct, and it?s still OK, but I do run the fridge pretty cold.

Attached is an advice sheet from YouGen which does mention keeping the freezer full.

Regards
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Keith Wicks via Tech1
Sent: 12 November 2020 02:57
To: dave.mdv
Cc: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk

By "green-top milk", I mean semi-skimmed milk in 4-pint plastic containers with green screw-on caps. That's how out local Asda, Sainsbury's and Co-op supply it. All three supermarkets also sell blue-top milk, by which I mean the "whole" milk variety, in 4-pint containers with blue caps. I had imagined that this colour coding was used everywhere. What colour are the caps on your semi-skimmed milk?


KW


On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 at 22:00, dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com> wrote:
I recently replaced our old kitchen fridge with a new Liebherr under-worktop 'larder' (ie. a fridge with no freezer compartment!) and it indicates 5?C. constantly so I don't think that it is a storage temperature problem. Cheers, Dave. PS. I don't ever recall seeing 'green top' milk!



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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Thu Nov 12 04:15:01 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 10:15:01 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJ=Fv0PWdPe1CkcQ0+GmPGhzQAkWF0XwLt5yYbQ4tz8jcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com><CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com><dde0f0d3-21d3-0858-363a-9db08b696416@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=Fv0PWdPe1CkcQ0+GmPGhzQAkWF0XwLt5yYbQ4tz8jcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53B36A227F2447C3B81E253E6AF31085@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Hi Keith,

Interesting to see your recollections of butterfat percentage labelling. I?m attaching a Word doc with figures which seem to suggest a rise rather than decline in the average fat content of UK milk in recent years. Of course averages are a wonderful thing but reality may mean that the marketing channels result in significant variations as individual retailers source a product to a rather more particular spec.

The attachment also includes a couple of historical figure sets from 1963 and 2004 (both USA origin).

Dave Newbitt.

From: Keith Wicks via Tech1 
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 2:56 AM
To: dave.mdv 
Cc: tech1 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk

By "green-top milk", I mean semi-skimmed milk in 4-pint plastic containers with green screw-on caps. That's how out local Asda, Sainsbury's and Co-op supply it. All three supermarkets also sell blue-top milk, by which I mean the "whole" milk variety, in 4-pint containers with blue caps. I had imagined that this colour coding was used everywhere. What colour are the caps on your semi-skimmed milk?

I do wonder just what "whole" milk is supposed to be. I'm fairly certain that, not long ago, it used to contain 4.6 percent fat, or perhaps 4.6 g of fat per 100 ml milk. It was additionally labelled 5% fat, with a note that this was an approximation to the nearest one percent. Today's "whole milk contains less fat. I suspect that the health police are interfering again.

The last milk we bought contained 1.8 g fat per 100 ml (semi skimmed) and 3.7 g fat per 100 ml "whole". Both labels bear messages advising to keep the milk refrigerated and to consume before the "use by" date and within 3 days (of opening). I think it is designed to go off soon after it has been open for 3 days.

KW


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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 12 04:59:16 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 10:59:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <53B36A227F2447C3B81E253E6AF31085@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com><CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com><dde0f0d3-21d3-0858-363a-9db08b696416@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=Fv0PWdPe1CkcQ0+GmPGhzQAkWF0XwLt5yYbQ4tz8jcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<53B36A227F2447C3B81E253E6AF31085@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com>

Well, who remembers the milk in bottles with foil caps which had a good couple of inches of delicious cream at the top? (beloved by Bluetits)
So ? no more ? more profit in separating it out and packaging in pricey tubs! Mind you, dairy farmers are paid a mere pittance compared to the shelf price.
During the war, my father (in North Africa) thought it safer for my mother and I to go and live with granny in rural Wiltshire, rather than opposite Portsmouth, regular targets for the Jerry bombers. Unable to get near, they dumped their bomb load on to our Isle of Wight before legging it back home. Granny lived next to a farm, dairy and hay, and the farmer said to granny to put out a jug on the wall between if she wanted some milk and cream. Granny wouldn?t hear of it ? it should go to ?our brave soldiers!? My mum had no such qualms and put out the jug when granny wasn?t looking!
However, I hated milk, and at school, used to give away my morning 1/3 pint morning ration. More fool me. Lack of calcium intake resulted in brittle teeth and possible osteoporosis. Not good if one falls and breaks a limb, which happened, not to mention the cost of dental treatment.
Regards
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: David Newbitt via Tech1
Sent: 12 November 2020 10:15
To: Keith Wicks
Cc: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk

Hi Keith,
?
Interesting to see your recollections of butterfat percentage labelling. 



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From davesound at btinternet.com  Thu Nov 12 05:19:52 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 11:19:52 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <B27D70BC-3877-4786-B16C-DC5E77E8C651@gmail.com>
References: <02BE12E4-E992-4CD6-A386-03ECACC610A5@me.com>
	<B27D70BC-3877-4786-B16C-DC5E77E8C651@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58ce37b396davesound@btinternet.com>

In article <B27D70BC-3877-4786-B16C-DC5E77E8C651 at gmail.com>,
   Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> We have the same fridge in our kitchen and it keeps the green top
> semi-skimmed milk in plastic bottles that we have three times a week
> from our milkman very well, along with everything else, Geoff

I'm on weekly priority deliveries - so don't go shopping. Ordinary semi
skimmed doesn't last a week. Filtered semi skimmed does.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Thu Nov 12 05:34:19 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 11:34:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com>
References: <5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <88E09B01-8CC3-4C9D-ABD4-23C3D9622983@icloud.com>

I remember the cream on the top of the milk. We had a siphon to remove it and used it on deserts. My grandparents lived in Jersey and they had a butter churn in the kitchen which I used to spend hours winding so that we came home with a pat of home made butter.

Graeme Wall

> On 12 Nov 2020, at 10:59, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Well, who remembers the milk in bottles with foil caps which had a good couple of inches of delicious cream at the top? (beloved by Bluetits)
> So ? no more ? more profit in separating it out and packaging in pricey tubs! Mind you, dairy farmers are paid a mere pittance compared to the shelf price.
> During the war, my father (in North Africa) thought it safer for my mother and I to go and live with granny in rural Wiltshire, rather than opposite Portsmouth, regular targets for the Jerry bombers. Unable to get near, they dumped their bomb load on to our Isle of Wight before legging it back home. Granny lived next to a farm, dairy and hay, and the farmer said to granny to put out a jug on the wall between if she wanted some milk and cream. Granny wouldn?t hear of it ? it should go to ?our brave soldiers!? My mum had no such qualms and put out the jug when granny wasn?t looking!
> However, I hated milk, and at school, used to give away my morning 1/3 pint morning ration. More fool me. Lack of calcium intake resulted in brittle teeth and possible osteoporosis. Not good if one falls and breaks a limb, which happened, not to mention the cost of dental treatment.
> Regards
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: David Newbitt via Tech1
> Sent: 12 November 2020 10:15
> To: Keith Wicks
> Cc: tech1
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
>  
> Hi Keith,
>  
> Interesting to see your recollections of butterfat percentage labelling.
>  
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
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From stevewlowry at hotmail.com  Thu Nov 12 05:55:35 2020
From: stevewlowry at hotmail.com (Steve Lowry)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 11:55:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <58ce37b396davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <02BE12E4-E992-4CD6-A386-03ECACC610A5@me.com>
	<B27D70BC-3877-4786-B16C-DC5E77E8C651@gmail.com>
	<58ce37b396davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <PA4PR08MB62089FC18E7B1E85A5CF3907B6E70@PA4PR08MB6208.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>

Hi,



I'm a fan of 'Cravendale' semi-skimmed milk which, bought today (12th November), delivered by Waitrose (when I can get a delivery slot - it's safer than mingling with the non-social-distancing mob in-store!) has a use-by date of 6th December.  That's over 3 weeks' shelf-life for semi-skimmed milk.



I moved to Cravendale semi-skimmed milk when lockdowns began and it has proven to regularly last 7 days from first-opening to its use-by date. To me, it tastes like 'regular' semi-skimmed milk because it is, just the elements that can cause decay have been more thoroughly filtered out. Available in both 2litre and 1litre sizes from a variety of supermarkets....



[cid:image003.jpg at 01D6B8EA.B2E94B60]



But what do I know!?



All the best,



Steve (Long-time listener, rare contributor)



-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 12 November 2020 11:20
To: Alan Taylor <alanaudio at me.com>
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk



In article <B27D70BC-3877-4786-B16C-DC5E77E8C651 at gmail.com<mailto:B27D70BC-3877-4786-B16C-DC5E77E8C651 at gmail.com>>,

   Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

> We have the same fridge in our kitchen and it keeps the green top

> semi-skimmed milk in plastic bottles that we have three times a week

> from our milkman very well, along with everything else, Geoff



I'm on weekly priority deliveries - so don't go shopping. Ordinary semi skimmed doesn't last a week. Filtered semi skimmed does.



--

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk<mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk>     London SW 12





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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Nov 12 06:18:58 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 12:18:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <88E09B01-8CC3-4C9D-ABD4-23C3D9622983@icloud.com>
References: <88E09B01-8CC3-4C9D-ABD4-23C3D9622983@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <744EDE31-1E32-4446-8888-208B7040BE8D@me.com>

Occasionally we spot big pots of Jersey cream on sale in the reduced section at the supermarket.  We buy them and make our own butter using a stand mixer to whisk it into the first stage of being butter.  

We end up with the most delicious butter and it?s just the thing to spread onto piping-hot home made English muffins, or bread rolls straight from the oven.

My mum once bought a gadget which was supposed to work the other way.  You put milk and butter into the top and pump a handle manually to produce cream.  It was ridiculously hard work for scant reward because the end result wasn?t remotely like cream and the amount produced was minuscule.

Alan Taylor

> On 12 Nov 2020, at 11:34, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I remember the cream on the top of the milk. We had a siphon to remove it and used it on deserts. My grandparents lived in Jersey and they had a butter churn in the kitchen which I used to spend hours winding so that we came home with a pat of home made butter.
> 
> Graeme Wall
> 
>>> On 12 Nov 2020, at 10:59, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Well, who remembers the milk in bottles with foil caps which had a good couple of inches of delicious cream at the top? (beloved by Bluetits)
>> So ? no more ? more profit in separating it out and packaging in pricey tubs! Mind you, dairy farmers are paid a mere pittance compared to the shelf price.
>> During the war, my father (in North Africa) thought it safer for my mother and I to go and live with granny in rural Wiltshire, rather than opposite Portsmouth, regular targets for the Jerry bombers. Unable to get near, they dumped their bomb load on to our Isle of Wight before legging it back home. Granny lived next to a farm, dairy and hay, and the farmer said to granny to put out a jug on the wall between if she wanted some milk and cream. Granny wouldn?t hear of it ? it should go to ?our brave soldiers!? My mum had no such qualms and put out the jug when granny wasn?t looking!
>> However, I hated milk, and at school, used to give away my morning 1/3 pint morning ration. More fool me. Lack of calcium intake resulted in brittle teeth and possible osteoporosis. Not good if one falls and breaks a limb, which happened, not to mention the cost of dental treatment.
>> Regards
>> Pat
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: David Newbitt via Tech1
>> Sent: 12 November 2020 10:15
>> To: Keith Wicks
>> Cc: tech1
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
>>  
>> Hi Keith,
>>  
>> Interesting to see your recollections of butterfat percentage labelling.
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  	
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 12 06:20:26 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 12:20:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <PA4PR08MB62089FC18E7B1E85A5CF3907B6E70@PA4PR08MB6208.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <02BE12E4-E992-4CD6-A386-03ECACC610A5@me.com>
	<B27D70BC-3877-4786-B16C-DC5E77E8C651@gmail.com>
	<58ce37b396davesound@btinternet.com>
	<PA4PR08MB62089FC18E7B1E85A5CF3907B6E70@PA4PR08MB6208.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5fad2889.1c69fb81.fa480.7554@mx.google.com>

I?ve not come across Cravendale, but used Waitrose to deliver some other liquid! Recent offers of 25% off wine, necessitated an order of 24 bottles of Villa Maria Sauvignon Blanc, normally around ?9.69 or so, but discounted to ?7.27.
So that should suffice for a month during lockdown!
Speaking of prices ? some years ago I had the opportunity to visit Le Touquet, nearing Christmas, so went armed with plenty of francs (in those days) to get some Veuve Clicquot fizz.
The proprietor of the cave had a high price, roughly ?2 a bottle more than Majestic ? so I tackled him on the price. Gallic shrug. You want Veuve, you pay, no room for negotiation at all etc. So francs intact, Majestic got the business.
Best
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Steve Lowry via Tech1
Sent: 12 November 2020 11:55
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk

Hi,

I?m a fan of ?Cravendale? semi-skimmed milk which, bought today (12th November), delivered by Waitrose (when I can get a delivery slot - it?s safer than mingling with the non-social-distancing mob in-store!) has a use-by date of 6th December. ?That?s over 3 weeks? shelf-life for semi-skimmed milk.

I moved to Cravendale semi-skimmed milk when lockdowns began and it has proven to regularly last 7 days from first-opening to its use-by date. To me, it tastes like ?regular? semi-skimmed milk because it is, just the elements that can cause decay have been more thoroughly filtered out. Available in both 2litre and 1litre sizes from a variety of supermarkets?.



But what do I know!?

All the best,

Steve (Long-time listener, rare contributor)




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 12 06:25:33 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 12:25:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <88E09B01-8CC3-4C9D-ABD4-23C3D9622983@icloud.com>
References: <5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com>
	<88E09B01-8CC3-4C9D-ABD4-23C3D9622983@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <5fad29bc.1c69fb81.81fcf.290b@mx.google.com>

I?m sure the Gobi and Kalahari appreciated it but might have been a bit gritty?
(Oh! Ha Ha, Pat ? forget it!)
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Graeme Wall
Sent: 12 November 2020 11:34
To: patheigham
Cc: David Newbitt; Keith Wicks; tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk

I remember the cream on the top of the milk. We had a siphon to remove it and used it on deserts. 



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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Thu Nov 12 06:39:58 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 12:39:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <02005172-32bc-6d93-3c13-5a5f6ea636b8@btinternet.com>
References: <eBYDnG6STXSFXgUR9nRZSxqti4QEtCf_ZePWAqdjr0xJwHbN-HoQqp_kSMUjLTgkSd1g5eSwF-jOkgWFiAPkpXQvJHQ0rtg8ldytCYslKpI=@protonmail.com>
	<2A53BFC8-4F9D-4C83-861D-ED5D1615D4F9@me.com>
	<02005172-32bc-6d93-3c13-5a5f6ea636b8@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <2f9874e7-f246-db3b-c4c7-dd9275ac31ee@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 11/11/2020 21:41, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
>
> [Hard goat's].... and 'Bovver Boots'!
>
If you've ever kept and milked goats you'll know that every goat comes 
with "bovver"!

Chris Woolf



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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From doug at puddifoot.me  Thu Nov 12 07:11:11 2020
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 13:11:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
Message-ID: <uoeednbro253r94yxv5m4da9.1605186671684@email.android.com>

Our milkman still delivers milk in bottles with a foil  cap, and the channel island milk certainly has cream on the top. Only twice a week though.

Doug

On 12 November 2020, at 10:59, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

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Well, who remembers the milk in bottles with foil caps which had a good couple of inches of delicious cream at the top? (beloved by Bluetits)

So ? no more ? more profit in separating it out and packaging in pricey tubs! Mind you, dairy farmers are paid a mere pittance compared to the shelf price.

During the war, my father (in North Africa) thought it safer for my mother and I to go and live with granny in rural Wiltshire, rather than opposite Portsmouth, regular targets for the Jerry bombers. Unable to get near, they dumped their bomb load on to our Isle of Wight before legging it back home. Granny lived next to a farm, dairy and hay, and the farmer said to granny to put out a jug on the wall between if she wanted some milk and cream. Granny wouldn?t hear of it ? it should go to ?our brave soldiers!? My mum had no such qualms and put out the jug when granny wasn?t looking!

However, I hated milk, and at school, used to give away my morning 1/3 pint morning ration. More fool me. Lack of calcium intake resulted in brittle teeth and possible osteoporosis. Not good if one falls and breaks a limb, which happened, not to mention the cost of dental treatment.

Regards

Pat

?

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

?

From: David Newbitt via Tech1
Sent: 12 November 2020 10:15
To: Keith Wicks
Cc: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk

?

Hi Keith,

?

Interesting to see your recollections of butterfat percentage labelling. 

?



			 				? 			 		 			

				This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 				
www.avast.com 			

		 
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From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Thu Nov 12 07:11:17 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 13:11:17 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<dde0f0d3-21d3-0858-363a-9db08b696416@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=Fv0PWdPe1CkcQ0+GmPGhzQAkWF0XwLt5yYbQ4tz8jcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<53B36A227F2447C3B81E253E6AF31085@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <f666f2d0-8ae9-ca12-1736-5ce921cc53bd@imixmics.co.uk>

The local corner shop offers milk in various containers including old 
fashioned glass pints with foil tops from a local dairy. It's more 
expensive of course...

John Nottage

On 12/11/2020 10:59, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
> Well, who remembers the milk in bottles with foil caps which had a good 
> couple of inches of delicious cream at the top? (beloved by Bluetits)
> 
> So ? no more ? more profit in separating it out and packaging in pricey 
> tubs! Mind you, dairy farmers are paid a mere pittance compared to the 
> shelf price.
> 
> During the war, my father (in North Africa) thought it safer for my 
> mother and I to go and live with granny in rural Wiltshire, rather than 
> opposite Portsmouth, regular targets for the Jerry bombers. Unable to 
> get near, they dumped their bomb load on to our Isle of Wight before 
> legging it back home. Granny lived next to a farm, dairy and hay, and 
> the farmer said to granny to put out a jug on the wall between if she 
> wanted some milk and cream. Granny wouldn?t hear of it ? it should go to 
> ?our brave soldiers!? My mum had no such qualms and put out the jug when 
> granny wasn?t looking!
> 
> However, I hated milk, and at school, used to give away my morning 1/3 
> pint morning ration. More fool me. Lack of calcium intake resulted in 
> brittle teeth and possible osteoporosis. Not good if one falls and 
> breaks a limb, which happened, not to mention the cost of dental treatment.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Pat
> 
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows 10
> 
> *From: *David Newbitt via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *12 November 2020 10:15
> *To: *Keith Wicks <mailto:keithwicksuk at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
> 
> Hi Keith,
> 
> Interesting to see your recollections of butterfat percentage labelling.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
> 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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> 
> 
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> 



From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Thu Nov 12 08:29:18 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 14:29:18 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <88E09B01-8CC3-4C9D-ABD4-23C3D9622983@icloud.com>
References: <5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com>
	<88E09B01-8CC3-4C9D-ABD4-23C3D9622983@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <E525D87E9E2248C3A9A55C7A86FE22B4@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Graeme and Alan?s mention of Jersey sparks a pretty vivid recollection. I lived on Jersey from January 1947 to November 1950 and well remember milk deliveries. No cartons or bottles ? horse-drawn cart carrying the milk which was ladled out into whatever receptacles you provided. We lived in a large house which enabled us to have paying guests who collectively consumed significant quantities of milk, cream and butter. We didn?t have a churn, the top was skimmed off the milk and whisked until it clotted into delicious cream . Usually that was ? as regular as clockwork overdoing the whisking would instead produce butter. My mum always laughed, not a bad reaction when things go wrong!

Just short of four on arrival, just short of eight on leaving. Four wonderful years of childhood which I tried to recapture on a visit exactly 50 years after leaving the island. Island paradise to rich man?s playground in that interval. Still beautiful but hardly the same. Here?s a nostalgia photo



The house to the right of the lorry was our home just before it was demolished. There was an external balcony at attic level looking across to the Museum and just beyond, St Helier harbour.

Apologies for rambling diversion,

Dave Newbitt.




From: Graeme Wall 
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:34 AM
To: patheigham 
Cc: David Newbitt ; Keith Wicks ; tech1 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk

I remember the cream on the top of the milk. We had a siphon to remove it and used it on deserts. My grandparents lived in Jersey and they had a butter churn in the kitchen which I used to spend hours winding so that we came home with a pat of home made butter.


Graeme Wall


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From peter.neill at icloud.com  Thu Nov 12 09:02:40 2020
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 15:02:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <744EDE31-1E32-4446-8888-208B7040BE8D@me.com>
References: <88E09B01-8CC3-4C9D-ABD4-23C3D9622983@icloud.com>
	<744EDE31-1E32-4446-8888-208B7040BE8D@me.com>
Message-ID: <DED4A486-A4ED-49B2-BDFF-1F8DEE2846B9@icloud.com>

Do you mean one of these?

My mother had one and I found the results somewhat variable - I tended to pump too quickly and not hard enough and it came out very thin (I was about 6 at the time) but my dad who used a slower firmer push produced quite thick cream.

I never understood why It was cheaper to turn butter back into cream than to buy it fresh. Perhaps it was a rating thing?

On the subject of today?s milk - I don?t actually like milk much, but add skimmed (red packets) to my tea.
My wife has her coffee black.

The only time we use any quantity is for porridge or custard.

So we use long-life which keeps for weeks unopened and 1L opened usually lasts us up to 2 weeks and we?ve never had any problems with it going off.
If there?s half a carton in the fridge when we go away that goes in the freezer and seems to survive the process.








Peter Neill






> On 12 Nov 2020, at 12:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> My mum once bought a gadget which was supposed to work the other way.  You put milk and butter into the top and pump a handle manually to produce cream.  It was ridiculously hard work for scant reward because the end result wasn?t remotely like cream and the amount produced was minuscule.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 

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From peter.neill at icloud.com  Thu Nov 12 09:08:02 2020
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 15:08:02 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk - Damn Autocorrect!
In-Reply-To: <DED4A486-A4ED-49B2-BDFF-1F8DEE2846B9@icloud.com>
References: <88E09B01-8CC3-4C9D-ABD4-23C3D9622983@icloud.com>
	<744EDE31-1E32-4446-8888-208B7040BE8D@me.com>
	<DED4A486-A4ED-49B2-BDFF-1F8DEE2846B9@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <FA05ED6C-E745-48EE-8D76-E1169CB36B4A@icloud.com>

For rating read rationing!
Peter Neill
6 Bells Meadow
Guilden Morden
Royston
SG8 0JB

01763 852942
07710 057250





> On 12 Nov 2020, at 15:02, Peter Neill via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Do you mean one of these?
> 
> My mother had one and I found the results somewhat variable - I tended to pump too quickly and not hard enough and it came out very thin (I was about 6 at the time) but my dad who used a slower firmer push produced quite thick cream.
> 
> I never understood why It was cheaper to turn butter back into cream than to buy it fresh. Perhaps it was a rating thing?
> 
> On the subject of today?s milk - I don?t actually like milk much, but add skimmed (red packets) to my tea.
> My wife has her coffee black.
> 
> The only time we use any quantity is for porridge or custard.
> 
> So we use long-life which keeps for weeks unopened and 1L opened usually lasts us up to 2 weeks and we?ve never had any problems with it going off.
> If there?s half a carton in the fridge when we go away that goes in the freezer and seems to survive the process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <IMG_1984.JPG>
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Neill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12 Nov 2020, at 12:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> My mum once bought a gadget which was supposed to work the other way.  You put milk and butter into the top and pump a handle manually to produce cream.  It was ridiculously hard work for scant reward because the end result wasn?t remotely like cream and the amount produced was minuscule.
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Nov 12 09:43:51 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 15:43:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <DED4A486-A4ED-49B2-BDFF-1F8DEE2846B9@icloud.com>
References: <DED4A486-A4ED-49B2-BDFF-1F8DEE2846B9@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <A6CCAA06-4841-4439-ADE6-EBFB68B646D6@me.com>

That?s the sort of thing.  It turned out to be one of those gadgets which she bought, used a couple of times and then it was left in the back of the cupboard.

When we visit the in-laws in Germany, most people buy some sort of homogenised UHT milk and I don?t like it at all but it does have a ridiculously long shelf life.  MIL loves tea and so do I, but even the nicest tea with the milk they use is horrid, so I drink coffee, or tea with lemon when in Germany. 

When they visit the UK, they find our milk rather strange.  It?s a bit rich and overpowering in some ways, but they happily drink a glassful of it, which they never do with the milk they buy. There isn?t a German equivalent of clotted cream and they go mad for it, especially on freshly made scones. 

A farm near here is supposed to be installing a fresh milk dispensing machine where you take your own container and it gets filled up a bit like at a petrol pump ( probably more like a McDonalds cola dispenser ).  It?s been going to open next month for the last nine months or more, so I don?t know if it?s ever going to happen, but I do like the idea of the farmer getting paid directly and buying locally produced organic milk. 

Alan Taylor



> On 12 Nov 2020, at 15:03, Peter Neill via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Do you mean one of these?
> 
> My mother had one and I found the results somewhat variable - I tended to pump too quickly and not hard enough and it came out very thin (I was about 6 at the time) but my dad who used a slower firmer push produced quite thick cream.
> 
> I never understood why It was cheaper to turn butter back into cream than to buy it fresh. Perhaps it was a rating thing?
> 
> On the subject of today?s milk - I don?t actually like milk much, but add skimmed (red packets) to my tea.
> My wife has her coffee black.
> 
> The only time we use any quantity is for porridge or custard.
> 
> So we use long-life which keeps for weeks unopened and 1L opened usually lasts us up to 2 weeks and we?ve never had any problems with it going off.
> If there?s half a carton in the fridge when we go away that goes in the freezer and seems to survive the process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <IMG_1984.JPG>
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Neill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12 Nov 2020, at 12:18, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> My mum once bought a gadget which was supposed to work the other way.  You put milk and butter into the top and pump a handle manually to produce cream.  It was ridiculously hard work for scant reward because the end result wasn?t remotely like cream and the amount produced was minuscule.
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Nov 12 11:02:00 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 17:02:00 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <E525D87E9E2248C3A9A55C7A86FE22B4@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com>
	<88E09B01-8CC3-4C9D-ABD4-23C3D9622983@icloud.com>
	<E525D87E9E2248C3A9A55C7A86FE22B4@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <db4dc39e-d2b6-5d37-4690-127f0061746f@btinternet.com>

All this talk of cream reminded me of one of our early married holidays 
when we toured Devon and Cornwall staying B&B round the coast. One place 
was a farmhouse in Poundstock, near Bude. The farmer's wife made her own 
clotted cream! She made it in barn and explained that the microbes in 
the air turned the warm milk into clotted cream. Needless to say, there 
was a very large bowl of it on the breakfast table to put on our 
cornflakes. To my wife, a cream-a-holic, this was close to Paradise!

On 12/11/2020 14:29, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
> Graeme and Alan?s mention of Jersey sparks a pretty vivid 
> recollection. I lived on Jersey from January 1947 to November 1950 and 
> well remember milk deliveries. No cartons or bottles ? horse-drawn 
> cart carrying the milk which was ladled out into whatever receptacles 
> you provided. We lived in a large house which enabled us to have 
> paying guests who collectively consumed significant quantities of 
> milk, cream and butter. We didn?t have a churn, the top was skimmed 
> off the milk and whisked until it clotted into delicious cream . 
> Usually that was ? as regular as clockwork overdoing the whisking 
> would instead produce butter. My mum always laughed, not a bad 
> reaction when things go wrong!
> Just short of four on arrival, just short of eight on leaving. Four 
> wonderful years of childhood which I tried to recapture on a visit 
> exactly 50 years after leaving the island. Island paradise to rich 
> man?s playground in that interval. Still beautiful but hardly the 
> same. Here?s a nostalgia photo
> 1b 12 Pier Road Jersey Evening Post
> The house to the right of the lorry was our home just before it was 
> demolished. There was an external balcony at attic level looking 
> across to the Museum and just beyond, St Helier harbour.
> Apologies for rambling diversion,
> Dave Newbitt.
> *From:* Graeme Wall
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:34 AM
> *To:* patheigham
> *Cc:* David Newbitt ; Keith Wicks ; tech1
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
> I remember the cream on the top of the milk. We had a siphon to remove 
> it and used it on deserts. My grandparents lived in Jersey and they 
> had a butter churn in the kitchen which I used to spend hours winding 
> so that we came home with a pat of home made butter.
>
> Graeme Wall
>
>
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From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Nov 12 11:20:51 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 17:20:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <db4dc39e-d2b6-5d37-4690-127f0061746f@btinternet.com>
References: <5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com>
	<88E09B01-8CC3-4C9D-ABD4-23C3D9622983@icloud.com>
	<E525D87E9E2248C3A9A55C7A86FE22B4@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<db4dc39e-d2b6-5d37-4690-127f0061746f@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <BC861DF7-E543-494F-891C-9B9B8A1E3A8C@mac.com>

My Devonian grandfather used to put a four pint pan of full cream milk on an asbestos mat (!) on the gas stove on a very low heat, sometimes leaving it on there overnight. The net result was some of the most delicious clotted cream I?ve ever tasted ~ you simply scraped it off the surface of the remaining liquid, which I suppose in itself was effectively semi-skimmed milk. It has to be said that tea made with that milk was not brilliant and invariably had little blobs of cream floating in it!

Mike G


> On 12 Nov 2020, at 17:02, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> All this talk of cream reminded me of one of our early married holidays when we toured Devon and Cornwall staying B&B round the coast. One place was a farmhouse in Poundstock, near Bude. The farmer's wife made her own clotted cream! She made it in barn and explained that the microbes in the air turned the warm milk into clotted cream. Needless to say, there was a very large bowl of it on the breakfast table to put on our cornflakes. To my wife, a cream-a-holic, this was close to Paradise! 
> 
> On 12/11/2020 14:29, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
>> Graeme and Alan?s mention of Jersey sparks a pretty vivid recollection. I lived on Jersey from January 1947 to November 1950 and well remember milk deliveries. No cartons or bottles ? horse-drawn cart carrying the milk which was ladled out into whatever receptacles you provided. We lived in a large house which enabled us to have paying guests who collectively consumed significant quantities of milk, cream and butter. We didn?t have a churn, the top was skimmed off the milk and whisked until it clotted into delicious cream . Usually that was ? as regular as clockwork overdoing the whisking would instead produce butter. My mum always laughed, not a bad reaction when things go wrong!
>>  
>> Just short of four on arrival, just short of eight on leaving. Four wonderful years of childhood which I tried to recapture on a visit exactly 50 years after leaving the island. Island paradise to rich man?s playground in that interval. Still beautiful but hardly the same. Here?s a nostalgia photo
>>  
>> <1b 12 Pier Road Jersey Evening Post[3].jpg>
>>  
>> The house to the right of the lorry was our home just before it was demolished. There was an external balcony at attic level looking across to the Museum and just beyond, St Helier harbour.
>>  
>> Apologies for rambling diversion,
>>  
>> Dave Newbitt.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: Graeme Wall <>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:34 AM
>> To: patheigham <>
>> Cc: David Newbitt <> ; Keith Wicks <> ; tech1 <>
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
>>  
>> I remember the cream on the top of the milk. We had a siphon to remove it and used it on deserts. My grandparents lived in Jersey and they had a butter churn in the kitchen which I used to spend hours winding so that we came home with a pat of home made butter.
>> 
>> Graeme Wall
>> 
>>>  
>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Thu Nov 12 11:46:28 2020
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 17:46:28 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <BC861DF7-E543-494F-891C-9B9B8A1E3A8C@mac.com>
References: <5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com><88E09B01-8CC3-4C9D-ABD4-23C3D9622983@icloud.com><E525D87E9E2248C3A9A55C7A86FE22B4@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><db4dc39e-d2b6-5d37-4690-127f0061746f@btinternet.com>
	<BC861DF7-E543-494F-891C-9B9B8A1E3A8C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <39071315B9C44C14ACBBBC67369F523C@Gigabyte>

When I was (a bit) younger, we used to stay in Brixham Devon where my parents lived. Around the corner was the farm run by an old family friend in Churston. That was always the venue for day out at harvest time and he had a dairy which made clotted cream where one could watch the cream being scraped off the pots into the cartons. Plus a little bit for us!
My mothers house down in the harbour was taken over during the war to be knocked down to build a large turning circle so the American trucks could be driven off the breakwater to head off to war.
Mother was enlisted to work in the town food office checking peoples ration books whilst Gran used to work in the NAFFI cooking food for the troops which had been surreptitiously delivered from local farms (had to in theory not tell mum as not put through rationing system!)

Asbestos mats remind me of chemistry class at school where they were used on the bench under the Bunsen burners. They made a lovely crack and explosion when heated by the flame turned on them.
We won't talk about 13year olds rewiring the Strand Patt 23s with new asbestos cables on our stage (onto those big flat Stand 3pin connectors at that time).

Too many memories!

Mike


Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk

My Devonian grandfather used to put a four pint pan of full cream milk on an asbestos mat (!) on the gas stove on a very low heat, sometimes leaving it on there overnight. The net result was some of the most delicious clotted cream I?ve ever tasted ~ you simply scraped it off the surface of the remaining liquid, which I suppose in itself was effectively semi-skimmed milk. It has to be said that tea made with that milk was not brilliant and invariably had little blobs of cream floating in it! 

Mike G

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From alawrance1 at me.com  Thu Nov 12 13:17:39 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 19:17:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <BC861DF7-E543-494F-891C-9B9B8A1E3A8C@mac.com>
References: <BC861DF7-E543-494F-891C-9B9B8A1E3A8C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <223B35D2-9727-4B94-9558-C560EB9E78D6@me.com>

Re. Making cream.

There used to be an attachment for the Kenwood Chef mixer which made excellent cream. 


Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 12 Nov 2020, at 17:21, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?My Devonian grandfather used to put a four pint pan of full cream milk on an asbestos mat (!) on the gas stove on a very low heat, sometimes leaving it on there overnight. The net result was some of the most delicious clotted cream I?ve ever tasted ~ you simply scraped it off the surface of the remaining liquid, which I suppose in itself was effectively semi-skimmed milk. It has to be said that tea made with that milk was not brilliant and invariably had little blobs of cream floating in it!
> 
> Mike G
> 
> 
>> On 12 Nov 2020, at 17:02, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> All this talk of cream reminded me of one of our early married holidays when we toured Devon and Cornwall staying B&B round the coast. One place was a farmhouse in Poundstock, near Bude. The farmer's wife made her own clotted cream! She made it in barn and explained that the microbes in the air turned the warm milk into clotted cream. Needless to say, there was a very large bowl of it on the breakfast table to put on our cornflakes. To my wife, a cream-a-holic, this was close to Paradise! 
>> 
>> On 12/11/2020 14:29, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Graeme and Alan?s mention of Jersey sparks a pretty vivid recollection. I lived on Jersey from January 1947 to November 1950 and well remember milk deliveries. No cartons or bottles ? horse-drawn cart carrying the milk which was ladled out into whatever receptacles you provided. We lived in a large house which enabled us to have paying guests who collectively consumed significant quantities of milk, cream and butter. We didn?t have a churn, the top was skimmed off the milk and whisked until it clotted into delicious cream . Usually that was ? as regular as clockwork overdoing the whisking would instead produce butter. My mum always laughed, not a bad reaction when things go wrong!
>>>  
>>> Just short of four on arrival, just short of eight on leaving. Four wonderful years of childhood which I tried to recapture on a visit exactly 50 years after leaving the island. Island paradise to rich man?s playground in that interval. Still beautiful but hardly the same. Here?s a nostalgia photo
>>>  
>>> <1b 12 Pier Road Jersey Evening Post[3].jpg>
>>>  
>>> The house to the right of the lorry was our home just before it was demolished. There was an external balcony at attic level looking across to the Museum and just beyond, St Helier harbour.
>>>  
>>> Apologies for rambling diversion,
>>>  
>>> Dave Newbitt.
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: Graeme Wall
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:34 AM
>>> To: patheigham
>>> Cc: David Newbitt ; Keith Wicks ; tech1
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
>>>  
>>> I remember the cream on the top of the milk. We had a siphon to remove it and used it on deserts. My grandparents lived in Jersey and they had a butter churn in the kitchen which I used to spend hours winding so that we came home with a pat of home made butter.
>>> 
>>> Graeme Wall
>>> 
>>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alawrance1 at me.com  Thu Nov 12 13:27:49 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 19:27:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <223B35D2-9727-4B94-9558-C560EB9E78D6@me.com>
References: <BC861DF7-E543-494F-891C-9B9B8A1E3A8C@mac.com>
	<223B35D2-9727-4B94-9558-C560EB9E78D6@me.com>
Message-ID: <460BDD3D-F0CF-4633-8281-5736EFF3B36B@me.com>

Apologies, finger trouble my end.





This is the Kenwood Chef attachment that made splendid cream. I don't know if it's still available, maybe the food police have abolished it.

> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 12 Nov 2020, at 17:21, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?My Devonian grandfather used to put a four pint pan of full cream milk on an asbestos mat (!) on the gas stove on a very low heat, sometimes leaving it on there overnight. The net result was some of the most delicious clotted cream I?ve ever tasted ~ you simply scraped it off the surface of the remaining liquid, which I suppose in itself was effectively semi-skimmed milk. It has to be said that tea made with that milk was not brilliant and invariably had little blobs of cream floating in it!
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12 Nov 2020, at 17:02, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> All this talk of cream reminded me of one of our early married holidays when we toured Devon and Cornwall staying B&B round the coast. One place was a farmhouse in Poundstock, near Bude. The farmer's wife made her own clotted cream! She made it in barn and explained that the microbes in the air turned the warm milk into clotted cream. Needless to say, there was a very large bowl of it on the breakfast table to put on our cornflakes. To my wife, a cream-a-holic, this was close to Paradise! 
>>> 
>>> On 12/11/2020 14:29, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> Graeme and Alan?s mention of Jersey sparks a pretty vivid recollection. I lived on Jersey from January 1947 to November 1950 and well remember milk deliveries. No cartons or bottles ? horse-drawn cart carrying the milk which was ladled out into whatever receptacles you provided. We lived in a large house which enabled us to have paying guests who collectively consumed significant quantities of milk, cream and butter. We didn?t have a churn, the top was skimmed off the milk and whisked until it clotted into delicious cream . Usually that was ? as regular as clockwork overdoing the whisking would instead produce butter. My mum always laughed, not a bad reaction when things go wrong!
>>>>  
>>>> Just short of four on arrival, just short of eight on leaving. Four wonderful years of childhood which I tried to recapture on a visit exactly 50 years after leaving the island. Island paradise to rich man?s playground in that interval. Still beautiful but hardly the same. Here?s a nostalgia photo
>>>>  
>>>> <1b 12 Pier Road Jersey Evening Post[3].jpg>
>>>>  
>>>> The house to the right of the lorry was our home just before it was demolished. There was an external balcony at attic level looking across to the Museum and just beyond, St Helier harbour.
>>>>  
>>>> Apologies for rambling diversion,
>>>>  
>>>> Dave Newbitt.
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> From: Graeme Wall <>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:34 AM
>>>> To: patheigham <>
>>>> Cc: David Newbitt <> ; Keith Wicks <> ; tech1 <>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
>>>>  
>>>> I remember the cream on the top of the milk. We had a siphon to remove it and used it on deserts. My grandparents lived in Jersey and they had a butter churn in the kitchen which I used to spend hours winding so that we came home with a pat of home made butter.
>>>> 
>>>> Graeme Wall
>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov 12 13:39:19 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 19:39:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <39071315B9C44C14ACBBBC67369F523C@Gigabyte>
References: <5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com><88E09B01-8CC3-4C9D-ABD4-23C3D9622983@icloud.com><E525D87E9E2248C3A9A55C7A86FE22B4@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><db4dc39e-d2b6-5d37-4690-127f0061746f@btinternet.com>
	<BC861DF7-E543-494F-891C-9B9B8A1E3A8C@mac.com>,
	<39071315B9C44C14ACBBBC67369F523C@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863C542B92F68876E00C020A7E70@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Was milk, now Asbestos.
My Mum used to put an asbestos disc under the saucepan, on the gas stove. I never understood the thinking behind that, because why not just turn the flame down a bit?

My first radio that wasn?t a crystal set, was a valve radio (obvs.). I used to listen to it under the bed covers every night, and liked the fact that the mains cable got quite warm. My bedroom was very cold in winter, the windows usually frosted up on the inside. No central heating in that old vicarage, and double glazing was decades away! So, the radio: it had a high resistance mains cable that dropped mains Voltage down to what the valve ?heaters? required. Prob about 6V with four or five valves wired in series. The cable was made of high resistance wire wound round an Asbestos rope and cotton covered. Can you imagine anything more potentially lethal? And yet that was commonplace in radios and early valve TV?s.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

From mibridge at mac.com  Fri Nov 13 03:18:45 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 09:18:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] DC
Message-ID: <0B35F722-4742-41D5-BA53-BF85C461BB8E@mac.com>

We now have to hope that there will not be a second Cumming(s)!

Mike G


From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 03:33:35 2020
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (David Denness)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 09:33:35 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] DC
In-Reply-To: <0B35F722-4742-41D5-BA53-BF85C461BB8E@mac.com>
References: <0B35F722-4742-41D5-BA53-BF85C461BB8E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <002701d6b9a0$0f972d40$2ec587c0$@gmail.com>

There will be a large queue of similar minded advisors to take up his role,
or worse

Dave D
-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Mike Giles via Tech1
Sent: 13 November 2020 09:19
To: Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: [Tech1] DC

We now have to hope that there will not be a second Cumming(s)!

Mike G

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Fri Nov 13 03:51:42 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 09:51:42 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] DC
In-Reply-To: <002701d6b9a0$0f972d40$2ec587c0$@gmail.com>
References: <0B35F722-4742-41D5-BA53-BF85C461BB8E@mac.com>
	<002701d6b9a0$0f972d40$2ec587c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7A331769414F4093B77D207E0BC63272@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Ain't that the truth Dave!

Dave Newbitt.

-----Original Message----- 
From: David Denness via Tech1
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 9:33 AM
To: 'Mike Giles'
Cc: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] DC

There will be a large queue of similar minded advisors to take up his role,
or worse

Dave D
-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Mike Giles via Tech1
Sent: 13 November 2020 09:19
To: Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: [Tech1] DC

We now have to hope that there will not be a second Cumming(s)!

Mike G

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 



From alawrance1 at me.com  Fri Nov 13 03:59:35 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 09:59:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] DC
In-Reply-To: <002701d6b9a0$0f972d40$2ec587c0$@gmail.com>
References: <002701d6b9a0$0f972d40$2ec587c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06C4F9A6-CC41-4E83-BBCF-6B7BEAC46C49@me.com>

Can't help thinking it's connected to the J. Biden phone call.

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 13 Nov 2020, at 09:34, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?There will be a large queue of similar minded advisors to take up his role,
> or worse
> 
> Dave D
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Mike Giles via Tech1
> Sent: 13 November 2020 09:19
> To: Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: [Tech1] DC
> 
> We now have to hope that there will not be a second Cumming(s)!
> 
> Mike G
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Fri Nov 13 04:05:04 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 10:05:04 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Improvisation
Message-ID: <EB683EDB27DD42A9B233B8B12DCC9203@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

I remember a few anecdotes describing similar techniques to this used in Ireland, mais pourqoi pas aussi en France?



Dave Newbitt.
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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Fri Nov 13 04:04:28 2020
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 10:04:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <f666f2d0-8ae9-ca12-1736-5ce921cc53bd@imixmics.co.uk>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<dde0f0d3-21d3-0858-363a-9db08b696416@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=Fv0PWdPe1CkcQ0+GmPGhzQAkWF0XwLt5yYbQ4tz8jcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<53B36A227F2447C3B81E253E6AF31085@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com>
	<f666f2d0-8ae9-ca12-1736-5ce921cc53bd@imixmics.co.uk>
Message-ID: <da405fb5-24b2-1530-ce75-6f38cc3eeefd@howell61.f9.co.uk>

I remember the farm over our back fence using crimped cardboard caps, 
this was in Cardiff in 1947. Of course it could have been a leftover 
from wartime arrangements.

John Howell


On 12/11/2020 13:11, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
> The local corner shop offers milk in various containers including old 
> fashioned glass pints with foil tops from a local dairy. It's more 
> expensive of course...
>
> John Nottage
>
> On 12/11/2020 10:59, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>> Well, who remembers the milk in bottles with foil caps which had a 
>> good couple of inches of delicious cream at the top? (beloved by 
>> Bluetits)
>>
>> So ? no more ? more profit in separating it out and packaging in 
>> pricey tubs! Mind you, dairy farmers are paid a mere pittance 
>> compared to the shelf price.
>>
>> During the war, my father (in North Africa) thought it safer for my 
>> mother and I to go and live with granny in rural Wiltshire, rather 
>> than opposite Portsmouth, regular targets for the Jerry bombers. 
>> Unable to get near, they dumped their bomb load on to our Isle of 
>> Wight before legging it back home. Granny lived next to a farm, dairy 
>> and hay, and the farmer said to granny to put out a jug on the wall 
>> between if she wanted some milk and cream. Granny wouldn?t hear of it 
>> ? it should go to ?our brave soldiers!? My mum had no such qualms and 
>> put out the jug when granny wasn?t looking!
>>
>> However, I hated milk, and at school, used to give away my morning 
>> 1/3 pint morning ration. More fool me. Lack of calcium intake 
>> resulted in brittle teeth and possible osteoporosis. Not good if one 
>> falls and breaks a limb, which happened, not to mention the cost of 
>> dental treatment.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
>> Windows 10
>>
>> *From: *David Newbitt via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Sent: *12 November 2020 10:15
>> *To: *Keith Wicks <mailto:keithwicksuk at gmail.com>
>> *Cc: *tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
>>
>> Hi Keith,
>>
>> Interesting to see your recollections of butterfat percentage labelling.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>
>>
>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>
>
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 04:45:39 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 10:45:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Improvisation
In-Reply-To: <EB683EDB27DD42A9B233B8B12DCC9203@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <EB683EDB27DD42A9B233B8B12DCC9203@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <fcd213bc-c449-d7b4-e1a1-855ca2785821@gmail.com>

In India I saw one of their huge trucks stopped by the roadside. They 
had the gearbox in pieces with cogs everywhere

B



On 13/11/2020 10:05, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
> I remember a few anecdotes describing similar techniques to this used 
> in Ireland, /mais pourqoi pas aussi en France?/
> //
> Improvisation
> //
> Dave Newbitt.
> //
>

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From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Fri Nov 13 05:07:22 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 11:07:22 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <da405fb5-24b2-1530-ce75-6f38cc3eeefd@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<dde0f0d3-21d3-0858-363a-9db08b696416@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=Fv0PWdPe1CkcQ0+GmPGhzQAkWF0XwLt5yYbQ4tz8jcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<53B36A227F2447C3B81E253E6AF31085@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com>
	<f666f2d0-8ae9-ca12-1736-5ce921cc53bd@imixmics.co.uk>
	<da405fb5-24b2-1530-ce75-6f38cc3eeefd@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>

I come from a family of farmers. They used to have a dairy herd in south 
Essex, & supplied fresh milk to the surrounding villages. I went with my 
uncle on his milk round on a few occasions. The milk came out of the 
cows via milking machine, through the cooler & straight into the 
bottles. They seemed bigger than pints, probably quarts. The top was a 
cardboard disc that was pressed (by hand) into the top of the bottle. 
Empties were collected on the round & cleaned for re-use. The rest of 
the milk went into churns which were rolled to the front gate where they 
were collected by a lorry & taken off to who knows where. I remember the 
old cowman who could roll 2 churns together, tipped just the right 
amount so they rolled easily. If you got the angle wrong, over went the 
churn! I could only manage one at a time, very carefully. That would 
have been the 50s. The milk round stopped, probably in the early 60s, I 
guess because of pasteurising regulations.

John Nottage

On 13/11/2020 10:04, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
> I remember the farm over our back fence using crimped cardboard caps, 
> this was in Cardiff in 1947. Of course it could have been a leftover 
> from wartime arrangements.
> 
> John Howell
> 
> 
> On 12/11/2020 13:11, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
>> The local corner shop offers milk in various containers including old 
>> fashioned glass pints with foil tops from a local dairy. It's more 
>> expensive of course...
>>
>> John Nottage
>>
>> On 12/11/2020 10:59, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Well, who remembers the milk in bottles with foil caps which had a 
>>> good couple of inches of delicious cream at the top? (beloved by 
>>> Bluetits)
>>>
>>> So ? no more ? more profit in separating it out and packaging in 
>>> pricey tubs! Mind you, dairy farmers are paid a mere pittance 
>>> compared to the shelf price.
>>>
>>> During the war, my father (in North Africa) thought it safer for my 
>>> mother and I to go and live with granny in rural Wiltshire, rather 
>>> than opposite Portsmouth, regular targets for the Jerry bombers. 
>>> Unable to get near, they dumped their bomb load on to our Isle of 
>>> Wight before legging it back home. Granny lived next to a farm, dairy 
>>> and hay, and the farmer said to granny to put out a jug on the wall 
>>> between if she wanted some milk and cream. Granny wouldn?t hear of it 
>>> ? it should go to ?our brave soldiers!? My mum had no such qualms and 
>>> put out the jug when granny wasn?t looking!
>>>
>>> However, I hated milk, and at school, used to give away my morning 
>>> 1/3 pint morning ration. More fool me. Lack of calcium intake 
>>> resulted in brittle teeth and possible osteoporosis. Not good if one 
>>> falls and breaks a limb, which happened, not to mention the cost of 
>>> dental treatment.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Pat
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>> *From: *David Newbitt via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> *Sent: *12 November 2020 10:15
>>> *To: *Keith Wicks <mailto:keithwicksuk at gmail.com>
>>> *Cc: *tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
>>>
>>> Hi Keith,
>>>
>>> Interesting to see your recollections of butterfat percentage labelling.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>
>>>
>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>
>>
>>
> 



From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 13 05:30:59 2020
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 11:30:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<dde0f0d3-21d3-0858-363a-9db08b696416@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=Fv0PWdPe1CkcQ0+GmPGhzQAkWF0XwLt5yYbQ4tz8jcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<53B36A227F2447C3B81E253E6AF31085@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com>
	<f666f2d0-8ae9-ca12-1736-5ce921cc53bd@imixmics.co.uk>
	<da405fb5-24b2-1530-ce75-6f38cc3eeefd@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
Message-ID: <A5923DCE-D499-4CB3-86CB-2F4CE3988A62@btinternet.com>

Hi John,
	Here?s an old (1935) milk bottle I found under my floor. They did indeed have a cardboard disc pressed into the top. We used to make ?whizzers? with them with a double string through the cap and wind it up to spin it! They were 1 pint though in spite of looking bigger. From my birth (1945) we always had milk delivered either measured from the churn on the milkman?s cart into our jug (up to 1950) or bottles on the doorstep and I continue to have it so today. The foil caps do have a 5 day best before date but obviously this changes as soon as it opened. The only time I buy 'plastic milk' is for canal trips. Hang the expense!

	Barry.

					


On 13 Nov 2020, at 11:07, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I come from a family of farmers. They used to have a dairy herd in south Essex, & supplied fresh milk to the surrounding villages. I went with my uncle on his milk round on a few occasions. The milk came out of the cows via milking machine, through the cooler & straight into the bottles. They seemed bigger than pints, probably quarts. The top was a cardboard disc that was pressed (by hand) into the top of the bottle. Empties were collected on the round & cleaned for re-use. The rest of the milk went into churns which were rolled to the front gate where they were collected by a lorry & taken off to who knows where. I remember the old cowman who could roll 2 churns together, tipped just the right amount so they rolled easily. If you got the angle wrong, over went the churn! I could only manage one at a time, very carefully. That would have been the 50s. The milk round stopped, probably in the early 60s, I guess because of pasteurising regulations.
> 
> John Nottage
> 
> On 13/11/2020 10:04, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
>> I remember the farm over our back fence using crimped cardboard caps, this was in Cardiff in 1947. Of course it could have been a leftover from wartime arrangements.
>> John Howell
>> On 12/11/2020 13:11, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
>>> The local corner shop offers milk in various containers including old fashioned glass pints with foil tops from a local dairy. It's more expensive of course...
>>> 
>>> John Nottage
>>> 
>>> On 12/11/2020 10:59, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> Well, who remembers the milk in bottles with foil caps which had a good couple of inches of delicious cream at the top? (beloved by Bluetits)
>>>> 
>>>> So ? no more ? more profit in separating it out and packaging in pricey tubs! Mind you, dairy farmers are paid a mere pittance compared to the shelf price.
>>>> 
>>>> During the war, my father (in North Africa) thought it safer for my mother and I to go and live with granny in rural Wiltshire, rather than opposite Portsmouth, regular targets for the Jerry bombers. Unable to get near, they dumped their bomb load on to our Isle of Wight before legging it back home. Granny lived next to a farm, dairy and hay, and the farmer said to granny to put out a jug on the wall between if she wanted some milk and cream. Granny wouldn?t hear of it ? it should go to ?our brave soldiers!? My mum had no such qualms and put out the jug when granny wasn?t looking!
>>>> 
>>>> However, I hated milk, and at school, used to give away my morning 1/3 pint morning ration. More fool me. Lack of calcium intake resulted in brittle teeth and possible osteoporosis. Not good if one falls and breaks a limb, which happened, not to mention the cost of dental treatment.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards
>>>> 
>>>> Pat
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>>>> 
>>>> *From: *David Newbitt via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> *Sent: *12 November 2020 10:15
>>>> *To: *Keith Wicks <mailto:keithwicksuk at gmail.com>
>>>> *Cc: *tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Keith,
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting to see your recollections of butterfat percentage labelling.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>> 
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 06:11:07 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 12:11:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Request from Barry Cobden.....
Message-ID: <d0fc8170-d96c-46ce-0424-30071cd17217@gmail.com>

... who was trying to use the wrong email address -


The attached message has been automatically discarded.


Mystery play.eml

Subject:
Mystery play
From:
Barry Cobden <barry.cobden at btinternet.com>
Date:
13/11/2020, 11:56

To:
Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>


I wonder if I can tap into the group memory?

I have been trying to remember the name of a BBC play on which I worked in the late 70s - early 80s.

My recollection of it's title was "The Cardinals" but that my just have been a working title. It was a "Four day Play" in the days when we produced half an hour's TV in a day (say 1 sit com or quiz) and hence a 2 hour transmission took 4 days.

I have a vague recollection of the plot being about 2 Italian clerics, friends,  living under the fascists and one was incarcerated and sentenced to death for his strongly held political beliefs. His friend tried to persuade him to be a bit pragmatic in order to save his life.

I was a Boom Op and it was my privilege to do "the boom" on the big scene.

I remember it because we did the one big scene on the last day. I think it was about 27 minutes long, some 230 shots, 2 artists, 3 cameras, one boom (me) and one take!

Can anyone cast any light on the actual play?

I've searched IMDB, BFI and other databases but no joy so far.

Many thanks in anticipation,

Barry.


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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Fri Nov 13 06:49:44 2020
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 12:49:44 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
References: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5667EB52-2036-4D58-B067-4C3DAABD16DB@zero51.force9.co.uk>

In the post war late forties I lived in suburban West Wickham Kent. The United Dairies milk float was horsedrawn and the milk options were silver top, not much cream on it, schoolmilk was silver, gold and blue stripes with enough cream to fully cover your cornflakes if your sister didn?t get it first. And Gold Top which was seriously creamy all the way through. My Aunt only ever had Gold Top even in tea which one had to drink politely from a cup (politely because it tastes quite yukky) She lived to 102 so no clogged arteries there. Of course the cats got a lot of it, probably why she needed a long succession of them. 
The horse, which the milkman believed would find its own way back to the dairy if he ever fell off, often got a top-up from his haybag outside our house and his next move usually cued the appearance of nearby housewives with galvanised bucket and hand shovel. First come first served. Mum would not stoop to such a task but the neighbours probably had better rhubarb.
Those UD milk tops were the aluminium press-ons that boy scouts and schools collected by the ounce and Express Dairies had cardboard discs.  I have still got one of those card groove bottles (somewhere) having found it abandoned under a bath by a long gone builder and full of congealed linseed oil which by then was a well nigh insoluble pain to get out!  We had no fridge and the milk lived in the vented pantry, we had a single terracotta container for one bottle which allegedly kept the milk cool by sweating off its water content. I doubt it helped much. Mum was convinced that milk going off prematurely (delivery day!) foretold a storm and was probably as accurate as the pre-super computer Met Office? The horse got replaced of course despite its self driving abilities, and eco fuel.  Too far ahead of its time I guess. Our current milkman has a modern electric ?float? that resembles a Transit pick-up. I haven?t seen it very often at four thirty am but it leaves like a silent rocket apart from a muted jingle and squeal of tyres on the nearby corner.  It?s a far cry from the electric snails of yesteryear. Just as a final example of how perverse we Brits can be or the other way round, our currently accepted colours are blue for high fat, green for semi skimmed at 1.8% and red top for 1% (which is just chalky water in my book). The Milk&More delivery has six different ali tops!  In Sweden and France and doubtless many others,  the colours are more or less reversed; no green but blue is semi and red is whole milk. A visit to the fridge when staying with my son?s family in Stockholm (not this year!) is a matter for careful thought.

Peter Fox

On 13 Nov 2020, at 11:07, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?I come from a family of farmers. They used to have a dairy herd in south Essex, & supplied fresh milk to the surrounding villages. I went with my uncle on his milk round on a few occasions. The milk came out of the cows via milking machine, through the cooler & straight into the bottles. They seemed bigger than pints, probably quarts. The top was a cardboard disc that was pressed (by hand) into the top of the bottle. Empties were collected on the round & cleaned for re-use. The rest of the milk went into churns which were rolled to the front gate where they were collected by a lorry & taken off to who knows where. I remember the old cowman who could roll 2 churns together, tipped just the right amount so they rolled easily. If you got the angle wrong, over went the churn! I could only manage one at a time, very carefully. That would have been the 50s. The milk round stopped, probably in the early 60s, I guess because of pasteurising regulations.

John Nottage

On 13/11/2020 10:04, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
> I remember the farm over our back fence using crimped cardboard caps, this was in Cardiff in 1947. Of course it could have been a leftover from wartime arrangements.
> John Howell
> On 12/11/2020 13:11, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
>> The local corner shop offers milk in various containers including old fashioned glass pints with foil tops from a local dairy. It's more expensive of course...
>> 
>> John Nottage
>> 
>> On 12/11/2020 10:59, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Well, who remembers the milk in bottles with foil caps which had a good couple of inches of delicious cream at the top? (beloved by Bluetits)
>>> 
>>> So ? no more ? more profit in separating it out and packaging in pricey tubs! Mind you, dairy farmers are paid a mere pittance compared to the shelf price.
>>> 
>>> During the war, my father (in North Africa) thought it safer for my mother and I to go and live with granny in rural Wiltshire, rather than opposite Portsmouth, regular targets for the Jerry bombers. Unable to get near, they dumped their bomb load on to our Isle of Wight before legging it back home. Granny lived next to a farm, dairy and hay, and the farmer said to granny to pu



From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Nov 13 06:50:26 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 12:50:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Request from Barry Cobden.....
In-Reply-To: <d0fc8170-d96c-46ce-0424-30071cd17217@gmail.com>
References: <d0fc8170-d96c-46ce-0424-30071cd17217@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCA129F6-D515-4EFC-B38F-8AD86C2290D7@me.com>

If Barry can remember the names of any of the actors, that should make it easier to identify as places like IMDB and also the Radio Times Genome can be searched for their names. There are numerous opportunities for finding productions worked on by a specific actor, but relatively few to identify a production by other means.

Alan Taylor



> On 13 Nov 2020, at 12:12, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? ... who was trying to use the wrong email address - 
> 
> 
> The attached message has been automatically discarded.
> 
> Mystery play.eml
> Subject: Mystery play
> From: Barry Cobden <barry.cobden at btinternet.com>
> Date: 13/11/2020, 11:56
> To: Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> 
> I wonder if I can tap into the group memory?
> 
> I have been trying to remember the name of a BBC play on which I worked in the late 70s - early 80s.
> 
> My recollection of it's title was "The Cardinals" but that my just have been a working title. It was a "Four day Play" in the days when we produced half an hour's TV in a day (say 1 sit com or quiz) and hence a 2 hour transmission took 4 days.
> 
> I have a vague recollection of the plot being about 2 Italian clerics, friends,  living under the fascists and one was incarcerated and sentenced to death for his strongly held political beliefs. His friend tried to persuade him to be a bit pragmatic in order to save his life.
> 
> I was a Boom Op and it was my privilege to do "the boom" on the big scene. 
> 
> I remember it because we did the one big scene on the last day. I think it was about 27 minutes long, some 230 shots, 2 artists, 3 cameras, one boom (me) and one take! 
> 
> Can anyone cast any light on the actual play?
> 
> I've searched IMDB, BFI and other databases but no joy so far.
> 
> Many thanks in anticipation,
> 
> Barry.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Fri Nov 13 07:01:37 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 13:01:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <5667EB52-2036-4D58-B067-4C3DAABD16DB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
	<5667EB52-2036-4D58-B067-4C3DAABD16DB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6e037242-a093-6f9e-9c49-bbdb7e5ea8e8@imixmics.co.uk>

Talk of milk floats reminds me of the time I came across a local milkman 
who had cornered his float too fast! There was a lot of milk & broken 
glass over the road...


John Nottage

On 13/11/2020 12:49, Peter Fox wrote:
> In the post war late forties I lived in suburban West Wickham Kent. The United Dairies milk float was horsedrawn and the milk options were silver top, not much cream on it, schoolmilk was silver, gold and blue stripes with enough cream to fully cover your cornflakes if your sister didn?t get it first. And Gold Top which was seriously creamy all the way through. My Aunt only ever had Gold Top even in tea which one had to drink politely from a cup (politely because it tastes quite yukky) She lived to 102 so no clogged arteries there. Of course the cats got a lot of it, probably why she needed a long succession of them.
> The horse, which the milkman believed would find its own way back to the dairy if he ever fell off, often got a top-up from his haybag outside our house and his next move usually cued the appearance of nearby housewives with galvanised bucket and hand shovel. First come first served. Mum would not stoop to such a task but the neighbours probably had better rhubarb.
> Those UD milk tops were the aluminium press-ons that boy scouts and schools collected by the ounce and Express Dairies had cardboard discs.  I have still got one of those card groove bottles (somewhere) having found it abandoned under a bath by a long gone builder and full of congealed linseed oil which by then was a well nigh insoluble pain to get out!  We had no fridge and the milk lived in the vented pantry, we had a single terracotta container for one bottle which allegedly kept the milk cool by sweating off its water content. I doubt it helped much. Mum was convinced that milk going off prematurely (delivery day!) foretold a storm and was probably as accurate as the pre-super computer Met Office? The horse got replaced of course despite its self driving abilities, and eco fuel.  Too far ahead of its time I guess. Our current milkman has a modern electric ?float? that resembles a Transit pick-up. I haven?t seen it very often at four thirty am but it leaves like a silent rocket apart from a muted jingle and squeal of tyres on the nearby corner.  It?s a far cry from the electric snails of yesteryear. Just as a final example of how perverse we Brits can be or the other way round, our currently accepted colours are blue for high fat, green for semi skimmed at 1.8% and red top for 1% (which is just chalky water in my book). The Milk&More delivery has six different ali tops!  In Sweden and France and doubtless many others,  the colours are more or less reversed; no green but blue is semi and red is whole milk. A visit to the fridge when staying with my son?s family in Stockholm (not this year!) is a matter for careful thought.
> 
> Peter Fox
> 
> On 13 Nov 2020, at 11:07, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I come from a family of farmers. They used to have a dairy herd in south Essex, & supplied fresh milk to the surrounding villages. I went with my uncle on his milk round on a few occasions. The milk came out of the cows via milking machine, through the cooler & straight into the bottles. They seemed bigger than pints, probably quarts. The top was a cardboard disc that was pressed (by hand) into the top of the bottle. Empties were collected on the round & cleaned for re-use. The rest of the milk went into churns which were rolled to the front gate where they were collected by a lorry & taken off to who knows where. I remember the old cowman who could roll 2 churns together, tipped just the right amount so they rolled easily. If you got the angle wrong, over went the churn! I could only manage one at a time, very carefully. That would have been the 50s. The milk round stopped, probably in the early 60s, I guess because of pasteurising regulations.
> 
> John Nottage
> 
> On 13/11/2020 10:04, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
>> I remember the farm over our back fence using crimped cardboard caps, this was in Cardiff in 1947. Of course it could have been a leftover from wartime arrangements.
>> John Howell
>> On 12/11/2020 13:11, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
>>> The local corner shop offers milk in various containers including old fashioned glass pints with foil tops from a local dairy. It's more expensive of course...
>>>
>>> John Nottage
>>>
>>> On 12/11/2020 10:59, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> Well, who remembers the milk in bottles with foil caps which had a good couple of inches of delicious cream at the top? (beloved by Bluetits)
>>>>
>>>> So ? no more ? more profit in separating it out and packaging in pricey tubs! Mind you, dairy farmers are paid a mere pittance compared to the shelf price.
>>>>
>>>> During the war, my father (in North Africa) thought it safer for my mother and I to go and live with granny in rural Wiltshire, rather than opposite Portsmouth, regular targets for the Jerry bombers. Unable to get near, they dumped their bomb load on to our Isle of Wight before legging it back home. Granny lived next to a farm, dairy and hay, and the farmer said to granny to pu
> 


From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Fri Nov 13 07:09:07 2020
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 13:09:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <6e037242-a093-6f9e-9c49-bbdb7e5ea8e8@imixmics.co.uk>
References: <6e037242-a093-6f9e-9c49-bbdb7e5ea8e8@imixmics.co.uk>
Message-ID: <A35E0B56-8FE4-4CAE-BE9A-31131CE292AF@zero51.force9.co.uk>

Oh yes! One morning commuting into TVC Hammersmith Broadway was a glittering box of jewels with an up ended Corona lorry in the middle of it all.  Brilliant in every way. I was late of course

Peter Fox

On 13 Nov 2020, at 13:01, John Nottage <jpn at imixmics.co.uk> wrote:

?Talk of milk floats reminds me of the time I came across a local milkman who had cornered his float too fast! There was a lot of milk & broken glass over the road...


John Nottage

On 13/11/2020 12:49, Peter Fox wrote:
> In the post war late forties I lived in suburban West Wickham Kent. The United Dairies milk float was horsedrawn and the milk options were silver top, not much cream on it, schoolmilk was silver, gold and blue stripes with enough cream to fully cover your cornflakes if your sister didn?t get it first. And Gold Top which was seriously creamy all the way through. My Aunt only ever had Gold Top even in tea which one had to drink politely from a cup (politely because it tastes quite yukky) She lived to 102 so no clogged arteries there. Of course the cats got a lot of it, probably why she needed a long succession of them.
> The horse, which the milkman believed would find its own way back to the dairy if he ever fell off, often got a top-up from his haybag outside our house and his next move usually cued the appearance of nearby housewives with galvanised bucket and hand shovel. First come first served. Mum would not stoop to such a task but the neighbours probably had better rhubarb.
> Those UD milk tops were the aluminium press-ons that boy scouts and schools collected by the ounce and Express Dairies had cardboard discs.  I have still got one of those card groove bottles (somewhere) having found it abandoned under a bath by a long gone builder and full of congealed linseed oil which by then was a well nigh insoluble pain to get out!  We had no fridge and the milk lived in the vented pantry, we had a single terracotta container for one bottle which allegedly kept the milk cool by sweating off its water content. I doubt it helped much. Mum was convinced that milk going off prematurely (delivery day!) foretold a storm and was probably as accurate as the pre-super computer Met Office? The horse got replaced of course despite its self driving abilities, and eco fuel.  Too far ahead of its time I guess. Our current milkman has a modern electric ?float? that resembles a Transit pick-up. I haven?t seen it very often at four thirty am but it leaves like a silent rocket apart from a muted jingle and squeal of tyres on the nearby corner.  It?s a far cry from the electric snails of yesteryear. Just as a final example of how perverse we Brits can be or the other way round, our currently accepted colours are blue for high fat, green for semi skimmed at 1.8% and red top for 1% (which is just chalky water in my book). The Milk&More delivery has six different ali tops!  In Sweden and France and doubtless many others,  the colours are more or less reversed; no green but blue is semi and red is whole milk. A visit to the fridge when staying with my son?s family in Stockholm (not this year!) is a matter for careful thought.
> Peter Fox
> On 13 Nov 2020, at 11:07, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?I come from a family of farmers. They used to have a dairy herd in south Essex, & supplied fresh milk to the surrounding villages. I went with my uncle on his milk round on a few occasions. The milk came out of the cows via milking machine, through the cooler & straight into the bottles. They seemed bigger than pints, probably quarts. The top was a cardboard disc that was pressed (by hand) into the top of the bottle. Empties were collected on the round & cleaned for re-use. The rest of the milk went into churns which were rolled to the front gate where they were collected by a lorry & taken off to who knows where. I remember the old cowman who could roll 2 churns together, tipped just the right amount so they rolled easily. If you got the angle wrong, over went the churn! I could only manage one at a time, very carefully. That would have been the 50s. The milk round stopped, probably in the early 60s, I guess because of pasteurising regulations.
> John Nottage
> On 13/11/2020 10:04, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
>> I remember the farm over our back fence using crimped cardboard caps, this was in Cardiff in 1947. Of course it could have been a leftover from wartime arrangements.
>> John Howell
>> On 12/11/2020 13:11, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
>>> The local corner shop offers milk in various containers including old fashioned glass pints with foil tops from a local dairy. It's more expensive of course...
>>> 
>>> John Nottage
>>> 
>>> On 12/11/2020 10:59, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> Well, who remembers the milk in bottles with foil caps which had a good couple of inches of delicious cream at the top? (beloved by Bluetits)
>>>> 
>>>> So ? no more ? more profit in separating it out and packaging in pricey tubs! Mind you, dairy farmers are paid a mere pittance compared to the shelf price.
>>>> 
>>>> During the war, my father (in North Africa) thought it safer for my mother and I to go and live with granny in rural Wiltshire, rather than opposite Portsmouth, regular targets for the Jerry bombers. Unable to get near, they dumped their bomb load on to our Isle of Wight before legging it back home. Granny lived next to a farm, dairy and hay, and the farmer said to granny to pu




From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Fri Nov 13 07:13:10 2020
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 13:13:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] DC
In-Reply-To: <002701d6b9a0$0f972d40$2ec587c0$@gmail.com>
References: <002701d6b9a0$0f972d40$2ec587c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA767929-392C-4930-9DBF-63DF78D1EA3F@zero51.force9.co.uk>

Methinks the rats sense a sinking ship?

Peter Fox

On 13 Nov 2020, at 09:34, David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?There will be a large queue of similar minded advisors to take up his role,
or worse

Dave D
-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Mike Giles via Tech1
Sent: 13 November 2020 09:19
To: Tech Ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: [Tech1] DC

We now have to hope that there will not be a second Cumming(s)!

Mike G

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From davesound at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 13 07:27:47 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 13:27:47 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] DC
In-Reply-To: <0B35F722-4742-41D5-BA53-BF85C461BB8E@mac.com>
References: <0B35F722-4742-41D5-BA53-BF85C461BB8E@mac.com>
Message-ID: <58cec74074davesound@btinternet.com>

In article <0B35F722-4742-41D5-BA53-BF85C461BB8E at mac.com>,
   Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> We now have to hope that there will not be a second Cumming(s)!

> Mike G

A typical 'ideas' man. Dreams, but no clue on how to implement those
dreams. And gets rid of anyone who points this out.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From waresound at msn.com  Fri Nov 13 14:08:09 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 20:08:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Improvisation
In-Reply-To: <EB683EDB27DD42A9B233B8B12DCC9203@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <EB683EDB27DD42A9B233B8B12DCC9203@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB086340D200A2629245649B71A7E60@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

This is H&SE Rawalpindi style. Trundling along a busy main drag on a fork lift truck.
[cid:92642B16-384D-4958-83D0-6F6174D0D031]

Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 13 Nov 2020, at 10:05, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
I remember a few anecdotes describing similar techniques to this used in Ireland, mais pourqoi pas aussi en France?

[Improvisation]

Dave Newbitt.

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 14:16:45 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 20:16:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New music
Message-ID: <3a87f780-4fde-0964-6d1a-0ad7944991ef@gmail.com>

One of my U3A group passed on the attached video.

B
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From techtone at protonmail.com  Fri Nov 13 14:30:04 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 20:30:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <A5923DCE-D499-4CB3-86CB-2F4CE3988A62@btinternet.com>
References: <3d2e49a4-b932-fdc7-7647-7bdffbf6949a@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJmQ_DqLD+Te=LgauSV5m7RLahWc9roo8B+DNFdDe7Nh1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<dde0f0d3-21d3-0858-363a-9db08b696416@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=Fv0PWdPe1CkcQ0+GmPGhzQAkWF0XwLt5yYbQ4tz8jcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<53B36A227F2447C3B81E253E6AF31085@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<5fad1583.1c69fb81.cec81.7bdc@mx.google.com>
	<f666f2d0-8ae9-ca12-1736-5ce921cc53bd@imixmics.co.uk>
	<da405fb5-24b2-1530-ce75-6f38cc3eeefd@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
	<A5923DCE-D499-4CB3-86CB-2F4CE3988A62@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <mqJ_eyXwUKl2wT9Mm1GGW0DBXtk8UQVIP-542JJnPDy52AiREIHNy9bIm2-y4YKiT0sD4YIAEJdjjsZwEdxjb-fBZibjAcD00SDbOujmO9Y=@protonmail.com>

In Northern Ireland, when I was but a lad, we had quart bottles of buttermilk, with a cardboard top (undoubtedly inserted by hand). This was one of my favourite drinks, best way to describe it is that it was just like liquid yoghurt, and was variable in thickness from day to day (I preferred it thick).

In Belfast (big city boy, me) we had electric milk floats, and I was most disappointed to arrive in even bigger city London in 1963 to find that you couldn't get buttermilk! We also had electric bread vans (Ormo and Inglis bakery), plus various home deliveries of fruit and veg, fish (although I don't remember any meat deliveries), and we didn't have a pandemic!

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 13 14:33:27 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 20:33:27 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New music
In-Reply-To: <3a87f780-4fde-0964-6d1a-0ad7944991ef@gmail.com>
References: <3a87f780-4fde-0964-6d1a-0ad7944991ef@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3b9521a-ac66-1b2d-6483-2ea1dd08e098@btinternet.com>

Thanks Bernie, the words aren't to difficult to remember so it should go 
far! I have forwarded it to my wife's singing teacher to give her some 
ideas for next term. Cheers, Dave

On 13/11/2020 20:16, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
> One of my U3A group passed on the attached video.
>
> B
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 13 14:49:02 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 20:49:02 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] This news group
Message-ID: <83674945-0069-c96c-786f-de7aeddd3959@btinternet.com>

I have been thinking about what a wonderful thing Bernie has created in 
this news group! The greatest thing about working in TVC was that no 
matter what job you had to do someone else had already done it and got 
the expertise to advise you, and if not, there were the various work 
shops with professionals who could help. When I started to install my 
central heating I was working in Pres. A with Larry Goodson who used to 
help his brother in the Sheen area doing just that so he was able to 
point me in the right direction etc. When it came to installing the gas 
I went into mechanical Workshops in the basement of the east Tower and 
got loads of good advice from the guys who did the props. fires in the 
studios etc.? Even in OBs there was so much advice available like when 
my wife put our automatic Ford Corsair into reverse at 30 mph. and 
bu**ered reverse gear I was pointed towards Paul Graham who? was an 
expert in auto gearboxes and said I could repair it myself in a weekend 
for ?20! (an exchange Borg-Warner box would have cost me ?160 at the 
time! So I did it, and it was just like working on a large 
Sturmey-Archer bicycle hub! This week I posted a simple query about milk 
and there are 41 comments and memories triggered by that single post! 
Thanks Bernie! Happy days! Cheers, Dave.



From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Fri Nov 13 15:24:39 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 21:24:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New music
In-Reply-To: <3a87f780-4fde-0964-6d1a-0ad7944991ef@gmail.com>
References: <3a87f780-4fde-0964-6d1a-0ad7944991ef@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CE2D5A81-5B37-497C-9881-C2FA84332D9B@icloud.com>

Says it all!
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 13 Nov 2020, at 20:16, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> One of my U3A group passed on the attached video.
> 
> B
> <fe164111-6fdb-4f9d-8d2a-23e1296b7713.MP4>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From barry.cobden at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 13 17:55:55 2020
From: barry.cobden at btinternet.com (Barry Cobden)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 23:55:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Mystery Play
Message-ID: <E7B520FC-FDCE-42B5-9167-9211270CDCF7@btinternet.com>

I wonder if I can tap into the group memory?

I have been trying to remember the name of a BBC play on which I worked in the late 70s - early 80s.

My recollection of it's title was "The Cardinals" but that my just have been a working title. It was a "Four day Play" in the days when we produced half an hour's TV in a day (say 1 sit com or quiz) and hence a 2 hour transmission took 4 days.

I have a vague recollection of the plot being about 2 Italian clerics, friends,  living under the fascists and one was incarcerated and sentenced to death for his strongly held political beliefs. His friend tried to persuade him to be a bit pragmatic in order to save his life.

I was a Boom Op and it was my privilege to do "the boom" on the big scene. 

I remember it because we did the one big scene on the last day. I think it was about 27 minutes long, some 230 shots, 2 artists, 3 cameras, one boom (me) and one take! 

Can anyone cast any light on the actual play?

I've searched IMDB, BFI and other databases but no joy so far.

Many thanks in anticipation,

Barry.

From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 13 18:29:03 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 00:29:03 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Solos
Message-ID: <41adad56-03f5-abe1-0712-278f7d5f6b6a@btinternet.com>

I know how you feel Barry, I did a live '30 minute Theatre' in TC7 where 
it was just one actor and me on the boom. The SS faded me up and faded 
me out and that was his contribution to the program! No credit of 
course! I did a Master Class with Geraint Evans as the only boom, 
following him around for 40 minutes, another tour-de-force!? Cheers, Dave



From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Sat Nov 14 02:21:50 2020
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 08:21:50 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <5667EB52-2036-4D58-B067-4C3DAABD16DB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
	<5667EB52-2036-4D58-B067-4C3DAABD16DB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJn-pq6=f3CFZw_36Qrxmi+vk9PV-cZPAzWYGLVdjjeeZw@mail.gmail.com>

I don't like the taste of coffee made with semi-skimmed milk, but reducing
my fat intake seemed a sensible thing to do. So I simply cut down on the
amount of coffee I drank and continued using whole milk. The health
benefits of reducing one's fat intake in milk seemed to be common
knowledge, so I didn't bother to check. But now I have started to check, I
don't know whether reducing one's fat intake in milk is a good thing or
not. See the Wikipedia article on *Fat content of milk* (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_content_of_milk). It states:

Fat has more nutritional energy per cup, but researchers found that in
general low fat milk drinkers do absorb less fat, and will compensate for
the energy deficit by eating more carbohydrates. They also found that the
lower milk fat drinkers also ate more fruits and vegetables, while the
higher milk fat drinkers also ate more meat and sweets.

The article also reveals:

Researchers at the University of Copenhagen, in Denmark, found that
drinking full-fat milk may actually be better for your heart than drinking
skimmed milk. This is because it boosted levels of 'good' HDL cholesterol
in the bloodstream.[4]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_content_of_milk#cite_note-Research-4>
So it's very difficult to know what to do if one is aiming for a longer
life. However, for now I'll take comfort from the idea that I'm boosting my
"good" cholesterol and leave things as they are.

KW


On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 at 12:50, Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> In the post war late forties I lived in suburban West Wickham Kent. The
> United Dairies milk float was horsedrawn and the milk options were silver
> top, not much cream on it, schoolmilk was silver, gold and blue stripes
> with enough cream to fully cover your cornflakes if your sister didn?t get
> it first. And Gold Top which was seriously creamy all the way through. My
> Aunt only ever had Gold Top even in tea which one had to drink politely
> from a cup (politely because it tastes quite yukky) She lived to 102 so no
> clogged arteries there. Of course the cats got a lot of it, probably why
> she needed a long succession of them.
> The horse, which the milkman believed would find its own way back to the
> dairy if he ever fell off, often got a top-up from his haybag outside our
> house and his next move usually cued the appearance of nearby housewives
> with galvanised bucket and hand shovel. First come first served. Mum would
> not stoop to such a task but the neighbours probably had better rhubarb.
> Those UD milk tops were the aluminium press-ons that boy scouts and
> schools collected by the ounce and Express Dairies had cardboard discs.  I
> have still got one of those card groove bottles (somewhere) having found it
> abandoned under a bath by a long gone builder and full of congealed linseed
> oil which by then was a well nigh insoluble pain to get out!  We had no
> fridge and the milk lived in the vented pantry, we had a single terracotta
> container for one bottle which allegedly kept the milk cool by sweating off
> its water content. I doubt it helped much. Mum was convinced that milk
> going off prematurely (delivery day!) foretold a storm and was probably as
> accurate as the pre-super computer Met Office? The horse got replaced of
> course despite its self driving abilities, and eco fuel.  Too far ahead of
> its time I guess. Our current milkman has a modern electric ?float? that
> resembles a Transit pick-up. I haven?t seen it very often at four thirty am
> but it leaves like a silent rocket apart from a muted jingle and squeal of
> tyres on the nearby corner.  It?s a far cry from the electric snails of
> yesteryear. Just as a final example of how perverse we Brits can be or the
> other way round, our currently accepted colours are blue for high fat,
> green for semi skimmed at 1.8% and red top for 1% (which is just chalky
> water in my book). The Milk&More delivery has six different ali tops!  In
> Sweden and France and doubtless many others,  the colours are more or less
> reversed; no green but blue is semi and red is whole milk. A visit to the
> fridge when staying with my son?s family in Stockholm (not this year!) is a
> matter for careful thought.
>
> Peter Fox
>
> On 13 Nov 2020, at 11:07, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?I come from a family of farmers. They used to have a dairy herd in south
> Essex, & supplied fresh milk to the surrounding villages. I went with my
> uncle on his milk round on a few occasions. The milk came out of the cows
> via milking machine, through the cooler & straight into the bottles. They
> seemed bigger than pints, probably quarts. The top was a cardboard disc
> that was pressed (by hand) into the top of the bottle. Empties were
> collected on the round & cleaned for re-use. The rest of the milk went into
> churns which were rolled to the front gate where they were collected by a
> lorry & taken off to who knows where. I remember the old cowman who could
> roll 2 churns together, tipped just the right amount so they rolled easily.
> If you got the angle wrong, over went the churn! I could only manage one at
> a time, very carefully. That would have been the 50s. The milk round
> stopped, probably in the early 60s, I guess because of pasteurising
> regulations.
>
> John Nottage
>
> On 13/11/2020 10:04, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
> > I remember the farm over our back fence using crimped cardboard caps,
> this was in Cardiff in 1947. Of course it could have been a leftover from
> wartime arrangements.
> > John Howell
> > On 12/11/2020 13:11, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
> >> The local corner shop offers milk in various containers including old
> fashioned glass pints with foil tops from a local dairy. It's more
> expensive of course...
> >>
> >> John Nottage
> >>
> >> On 12/11/2020 10:59, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
> >>> Well, who remembers the milk in bottles with foil caps which had a
> good couple of inches of delicious cream at the top? (beloved by Bluetits)
> >>>
> >>> So ? no more ? more profit in separating it out and packaging in
> pricey tubs! Mind you, dairy farmers are paid a mere pittance compared to
> the shelf price.
> >>>
> >>> During the war, my father (in North Africa) thought it safer for my
> mother and I to go and live with granny in rural Wiltshire, rather than
> opposite Portsmouth, regular targets for the Jerry bombers. Unable to get
> near, they dumped their bomb load on to our Isle of Wight before legging it
> back home. Granny lived next to a farm, dairy and hay, and the farmer said
> to granny to pu
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Nov 14 03:10:28 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 09:10:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New music
In-Reply-To: <3a87f780-4fde-0964-6d1a-0ad7944991ef@gmail.com>
References: <3a87f780-4fde-0964-6d1a-0ad7944991ef@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5faf9f04.1c69fb81.60f34.3c14@mx.google.com>

Methinks the lass is giving a good impression of D. Trump being told he?s lost the Presidential election!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 13 November 2020 20:18
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] New music

One of my U3A group passed on the attached video.

B



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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Nov 14 05:34:02 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 11:34:02 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJn-pq6=f3CFZw_36Qrxmi+vk9PV-cZPAzWYGLVdjjeeZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
	<5667EB52-2036-4D58-B067-4C3DAABD16DB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJn-pq6=f3CFZw_36Qrxmi+vk9PV-cZPAzWYGLVdjjeeZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04d8bb2b-f453-c90d-4233-9005d1969c25@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Indeed. Most of these things have a degree of fad and fashion mixed in 
with some (slightly wobbly) science.

Not very long ago butter was considered the ultimate poison, and there 
were some serious proposals to outlaw it. In some supermarkets you could 
struggle to find more than a couple of choices of proper butter.

But there was 10ft of fridge space for every version of "healthy" 
margarine under the sun.... most of which had heavy doses of transfats. 
Suddenly these fats became the great ogre - actually, they probably 
~are~ - and the Flora-style stuff had its recipe hastily changed; butter 
came back into favour because it had no transfats and because of the 
various fat soluble natural vitamins it contained.

Generally-speaking the more highly processed ~any~ food becomes the 
greater the problems found to be associated with it over time.

A little scepticism and careful analysis of the science is ~always~ 
worth doing.

Chris Woolf


On 14/11/2020 08:21, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
> I don't like the taste of coffee made with semi-skimmed milk, but 
> reducing my fat intake seemed a sensible thing to do. So I simply cut 
> down on the amount of coffee I drank and continued using whole milk. 
> The health benefits of reducing one's fat intake in milk seemed to be 
> common knowledge, so I didn't bother to check. But now I have started 
> to check, I don't know whether reducing one's fat intake in milk is a 
> good thing or not. See the Wikipedia article on /*Fat content of 
> milk*/?(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_content_of_milk 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_content_of_milk>). It states:
>
> Fat has more nutritional energy per cup, but researchers found that in 
> general low fat milk drinkers do absorb less fat, and will compensate 
> for the energy deficit by eating more carbohydrates. They also found 
> that the lower milk fat drinkers also ate more fruits and vegetables, 
> while the higher milk fat drinkers also ate more meat and sweets.
>
> The article also reveals:
>
> Researchers at the University of Copenhagen, in Denmark, found that 
> drinking full-fat milk may actually be better for your heart than 
> drinking skimmed milk. This is because it boosted levels of 'good' HDL 
> cholesterol in the bloodstream.^[4] 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_content_of_milk#cite_note-Research-4>
>
> So it's very difficult to know what to do if one is aiming for a 
> longer life. However, for now I'll take comfort from the idea that I'm 
> boosting my "good" cholesterol and leave things as they are.
>
> KW
>
>


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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Nov 14 06:06:02 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 12:06:02 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <04d8bb2b-f453-c90d-4233-9005d1969c25@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
	<5667EB52-2036-4D58-B067-4C3DAABD16DB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJn-pq6=f3CFZw_36Qrxmi+vk9PV-cZPAzWYGLVdjjeeZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<04d8bb2b-f453-c90d-4233-9005d1969c25@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5fafc82b.1c69fb81.dff36.30f9@mx.google.com>

I could actually do with putting on weight.
What seems to be ?in? one year is ?out? the next, the ?diet police? seem to be fickle.
I was a fussy eater, often refusing to eat what was put up at boarding school.
But another reason for liking freelance work around the world was the opportunity to eat well, and differently, on someone else?s check!
A situation, shooting at the Wimbledon Theatre ? there were two crews there, I was working on one using the foyer as a set, another commercials company had the stage. Both had own catering trucks outside, and as I knew both, and they knew me, it was easy to pick and choose from either menu!
Naughty Pat!
 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Chris Woolf via Tech1
Sent: 14 November 2020 11:34
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk

Indeed. Most of these things have a degree of fad and fashion mixed in with some (slightly wobbly) science.
Not very long ago butter was considered the ultimate poison, and there were some serious proposals to outlaw it. In some supermarkets you could struggle to find more than a couple of choices of proper butter. 
But there was 10ft of fridge space for every version of "healthy" margarine under the sun.... most of which had heavy doses of transfats. Suddenly these fats became the great ogre - actually, they probably ~are~ - and the Flora-style stuff had its recipe hastily changed; butter came back into favour because it had no transfats and because of the various fat soluble natural vitamins it contained.
Generally-speaking the more highly processed ~any~ food becomes the greater the problems found to be associated with it over time.
A little scepticism and careful analysis of the science is ~always~ worth doing.
Chris Woolf




-- 
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Nov 14 06:50:30 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 12:50:30 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <5fafc82b.1c69fb81.dff36.30f9@mx.google.com>
References: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
	<5667EB52-2036-4D58-B067-4C3DAABD16DB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJn-pq6=f3CFZw_36Qrxmi+vk9PV-cZPAzWYGLVdjjeeZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<04d8bb2b-f453-c90d-4233-9005d1969c25@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5fafc82b.1c69fb81.dff36.30f9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <58cf47ac48davesound@btinternet.com>

I well remember working on the Cup Final at Wembley while on attachment to
OBs. Covered by ITV too. Our catering consisted of a cold pack lunch,
supplied by a budget airline food supplier. ITV were grilling steaks in
the TV compound. Decided it was time to defect. ;-)       


In article <5fafc82b.1c69fb81.dff36.30f9 at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I could actually do with putting on weight. What seems to be ?in? one
> year is ?out? the next, the ?diet police? seem to be fickle. I was a
> fussy eater, often refusing to eat what was put up at boarding school.
> But another reason for liking freelance work around the world was the
> opportunity to eat well, and differently, on someone else?s check! A
> situation, shooting at the Wimbledon Theatre ? there were two crews
> there, I was working on one using the foyer as a set, another
> commercials company had the stage. Both had own catering trucks outside,
> and as I knew both, and they knew me, it was easy to pick and choose
> from either menu! Naughty Pat!

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From waresound at msn.com  Sat Nov 14 07:06:56 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 13:06:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <04d8bb2b-f453-c90d-4233-9005d1969c25@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
	<5667EB52-2036-4D58-B067-4C3DAABD16DB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJn-pq6=f3CFZw_36Qrxmi+vk9PV-cZPAzWYGLVdjjeeZw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<04d8bb2b-f453-c90d-4233-9005d1969c25@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863EBBEA41EEB80D75CFBE0A7E50@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Where are we currently in terms of irradiated food products? (milk in particular). I?ve for some time suspected that there?s more of it going on in supermarket products than we?re told.

Three days ago I bought a punnet of fresh raspberries in the weekly village market, as I do whenever I can. They look amazing, but really need eating on the same or the next day, and after that will start to look past their best. If I buy same from Sainsbury?s they will still look ?as new? ten days later. And that?s just one example. French beans and that total waste of space, baby broccoli, are other examples.

Possibly the best thing about the market is that I can do everything with zero plastic wrapping. Needless to say, everything is washed or quarantined at home before use.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 14 Nov 2020, at 11:34, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

Indeed. Most of these things have a degree of fad and fashion mixed in with some (slightly wobbly) science.

Not very long ago butter was considered the ultimate poison, and there were some serious proposals to outlaw it. In some supermarkets you could struggle to find more than a couple of choices of proper butter.

But there was 10ft of fridge space for every version of "healthy" margarine under the sun.... most of which had heavy doses of transfats. Suddenly these fats became the great ogre - actually, they probably ~are~ - and the Flora-style stuff had its recipe hastily changed; butter came back into favour because it had no transfats and because of the various fat soluble natural vitamins it contained.

Generally-speaking the more highly processed ~any~ food becomes the greater the problems found to be associated with it over time.

A little scepticism and careful analysis of the science is ~always~ worth doing.

Chris Woolf


On 14/11/2020 08:21, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
I don't like the taste of coffee made with semi-skimmed milk, but reducing my fat intake seemed a sensible thing to do. So I simply cut down on the amount of coffee I drank and continued using whole milk. The health benefits of reducing one's fat intake in milk seemed to be common knowledge, so I didn't bother to check. But now I have started to check, I don't know whether reducing one's fat intake in milk is a good thing or not. See the Wikipedia article on Fat content of milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_content_of_milk). It states:

Fat has more nutritional energy per cup, but researchers found that in general low fat milk drinkers do absorb less fat, and will compensate for the energy deficit by eating more carbohydrates. They also found that the lower milk fat drinkers also ate more fruits and vegetables, while the higher milk fat drinkers also ate more meat and sweets.

The article also reveals:

Researchers at the University of Copenhagen, in Denmark, found that drinking full-fat milk may actually be better for your heart than drinking skimmed milk. This is because it boosted levels of 'good' HDL cholesterol in the bloodstream.[4]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_content_of_milk#cite_note-Research-4>

So it's very difficult to know what to do if one is aiming for a longer life. However, for now I'll take comfort from the idea that I'm boosting my "good" cholesterol and leave things as they are.

KW



[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>      Virus-free. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
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From waresound at msn.com  Sat Nov 14 07:29:25 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 13:29:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <58cf47ac48davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
	<5667EB52-2036-4D58-B067-4C3DAABD16DB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJn-pq6=f3CFZw_36Qrxmi+vk9PV-cZPAzWYGLVdjjeeZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<04d8bb2b-f453-c90d-4233-9005d1969c25@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5fafc82b.1c69fb81.dff36.30f9@mx.google.com>,
	<58cf47ac48davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863AA0B9CEFFEDD5CC8EB8EA7E50@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

While we were still living in Ripley, a neighbour of ours had registed their huge open-plan kitchen with Location Finders, and it became quite common to find either commercials or TV drama units based there. Quite a clever idea really, when you?ve just spent a fortune on a new kitchen!  On two or three occasions I joined the queue for location catering. That was at a time when there would invariably be people there who you knew, so it never got questioned. It always felt good to be scoffing their nosh without even having to work for it!
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 14 Nov 2020, at 12:59, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I well remember working on the Cup Final at Wembley while on attachment to
> OBs. Covered by ITV too. Our catering consisted of a cold pack lunch,
> supplied by a budget airline food supplier. ITV were grilling steaks in
> the TV compound. Decided it was time to defect. ;-)       
> 
> 
> In article <5fafc82b.1c69fb81.dff36.30f9 at mx.google.com>,
>   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> I could actually do with putting on weight. What seems to be ?in' one
>> year is ?out' the next, the ?diet police' seem to be fickle. I was a
>> fussy eater, often refusing to eat what was put up at boarding school.
>> But another reason for liking freelance work around the world was the
>> opportunity to eat well, and differently, on someone else's check! A
>> situation, shooting at the Wimbledon Theatre - there were two crews
>> there, I was working on one using the foyer as a set, another
>> commercials company had the stage. Both had own catering trucks outside,
>> and as I knew both, and they knew me, it was easy to pick and choose
>> from either menu! Naughty Pat!
> 
> -- 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From davidvbrunt at gmail.com  Sat Nov 14 07:45:56 2020
From: davidvbrunt at gmail.com (David Brunt)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 13:45:56 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Solos
In-Reply-To: <41adad56-03f5-abe1-0712-278f7d5f6b6a@btinternet.com>
References: <41adad56-03f5-abe1-0712-278f7d5f6b6a@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <09DC990B0A194E11A88634B5E4FB22C8@0023242e4e14>

Although there were many two-hander episodes I can only find trace of four 
singles.

It'll be one of these.

06.12.1967
A Time of Wolves and Tigers
directed by Hugh David.
Cyril Cusack (Jumbo Boylan).

07.12.1969
Lecture to an Academy
directed by Roderick Graham.
Tutte Lemkow (Lecturer).

13.12.1971
Farewell Performance
directed by Rodney Bennett.
Sydney Tafler (Alexander Rosticoff).

29.11.1972
Krapp's Last Tape
directed by Donald McWhinnie.
Patrick Magee (Krapp).



-----Original Message----- 
From: dave.mdv via Tech1
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2020 12:29 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Solos

I know how you feel Barry, I did a live '30 minute Theatre' in TC7 where
it was just one actor and me on the boom. The SS faded me up and faded
me out and that was his contribution to the program! No credit of
course! I did a Master Class with Geraint Evans as the only boom,
following him around for 40 minutes, another tour-de-force!  Cheers, Dave


-- 
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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 



From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov 14 08:06:06 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 14:06:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863EBBEA41EEB80D75CFBE0A7E50@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VE1P189MB0863EBBEA41EEB80D75CFBE0A7E50@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <C0E3E9D3-5958-41A3-9B4B-A1106792632E@me.com>

I?ve no idea how supermarket raspberries can last as long as they do.  We?re still harvesting fresh raspberries from the garden and usually do so until the first hard frost arrives.  Obviously we don?t pick them until they are ripe, almost to the point of being over-ripe, but they wouldn?t keep for more than a day or two if stored in the fridge.

Home grown tomatoes are also quite different to shop bought tomatoes.  We grow various varieties, some with thin skins and only pick them once they are perfectly ripe.  There is no way that tomatoes like that could survive being transported commercially. 

Some supermarket fresh veg is marked ?packed in a protective environment?, which I believe means that it has nitrogen instead of air in the bag, but they do seem to keep for much longer than you might expect.

Alan Taylor

> On 14 Nov 2020, at 13:07, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Where are we currently in terms of irradiated food products? (milk in particular). I?ve for some time suspected that there?s more of it going on in supermarket products than we?re told.
> 
> Three days ago I bought a punnet of fresh raspberries in the weekly village market, as I do whenever I can. They look amazing, but really need eating on the same or the next day, and after that will start to look past their best. If I buy same from Sainsbury?s they will still look ?as new? ten days later. And that?s just one example. French beans and that total waste of space, baby broccoli, are other examples.
> 
> Possibly the best thing about the market is that I can do everything with zero plastic wrapping. Needless to say, everything is washed or quarantined at home before use.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>>> On 14 Nov 2020, at 11:34, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Indeed. Most of these things have a degree of fad and fashion mixed in with some (slightly wobbly) science.
>> 
>> Not very long ago butter was considered the ultimate poison, and there were some serious proposals to outlaw it. In some supermarkets you could struggle to find more than a couple of choices of proper butter. 
>> 
>> But there was 10ft of fridge space for every version of "healthy" margarine under the sun.... most of which had heavy doses of transfats. Suddenly these fats became the great ogre - actually, they probably ~are~ - and the Flora-style stuff had its recipe hastily changed; butter came back into favour because it had no transfats and because of the various fat soluble natural vitamins it contained.
>> 
>> Generally-speaking the more highly processed ~any~ food becomes the greater the problems found to be associated with it over time.
>> 
>> A little scepticism and careful analysis of the science is ~always~ worth doing.
>> 
>> Chris Woolf
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 14/11/2020 08:21, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
>>> I don't like the taste of coffee made with semi-skimmed milk, but reducing my fat intake seemed a sensible thing to do. So I simply cut down on the amount of coffee I drank and continued using whole milk. The health benefits of reducing one's fat intake in milk seemed to be common knowledge, so I didn't bother to check. But now I have started to check, I don't know whether reducing one's fat intake in milk is a good thing or not. See the Wikipedia article on Fat content of milk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_content_of_milk). It states:
>>> 
>>> Fat has more nutritional energy per cup, but researchers found that in general low fat milk drinkers do absorb less fat, and will compensate for the energy deficit by eating more carbohydrates. They also found that the lower milk fat drinkers also ate more fruits and vegetables, while the higher milk fat drinkers also ate more meat and sweets.
>>> 
>>> The article also reveals:
>>> Researchers at the University of Copenhagen, in Denmark, found that drinking full-fat milk may actually be better for your heart than drinking skimmed milk. This is because it boosted levels of 'good' HDL cholesterol in the bloodstream.[4]
>>> 
>>> So it's very difficult to know what to do if one is aiming for a longer life. However, for now I'll take comfort from the idea that I'm boosting my "good" cholesterol and leave things as they are.
>>> 
>>> KW
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 14 08:28:34 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 14:28:34 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Google maps 3d
Message-ID: <ef52dafb-bf6d-6eb4-4608-951375c146a5@gmail.com>

I've just noticed that large new areas of 3d-ness have appeared on 
Google Maps. It includes my house and you can see that the garage door 
is open.? A bit amazing.

This is part of Warner Brothers Studios London, once known as Leavesden 
Airfield. Even the huge runway, where once I practiced circuits in a 
C152, is completely gone.

B

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From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Nov 14 09:37:52 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 15:37:52 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863EBBEA41EEB80D75CFBE0A7E50@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
	<5667EB52-2036-4D58-B067-4C3DAABD16DB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJn-pq6=f3CFZw_36Qrxmi+vk9PV-cZPAzWYGLVdjjeeZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<04d8bb2b-f453-c90d-4233-9005d1969c25@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VE1P189MB0863EBBEA41EEB80D75CFBE0A7E50@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <58cf56feccdavesound@btinternet.com>

A favourite dessert is fresh fruit and yoghurt. Usually vanilla flavoured.

Ideally fresh berries in a standard punnet would last rather longer than
they do. Raspberries bought from Tesco just about keep three days.    

In article
<VE1P189MB0863EBBEA41EEB80D75CFBE0A7E50 at VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
   Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Where are we currently in terms of irradiated food products? (milk in
> particular). I?ve for some time suspected that there?s more of it going
> on in supermarket products than we?re told.

> Three days ago I bought a punnet of fresh raspberries in the weekly
> village market, as I do whenever I can. They look amazing, but really
> need eating on the same or the next day, and after that will start to
> look past their best. If I buy same from Sainsbury?s they will still
> look ?as new? ten days later. And that?s just one example. French beans
> and that total waste of space, baby broccoli, are other examples.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Nov 14 09:40:39 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 15:40:39 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863AA0B9CEFFEDD5CC8EB8EA7E50@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
	<5667EB52-2036-4D58-B067-4C3DAABD16DB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJn-pq6=f3CFZw_36Qrxmi+vk9PV-cZPAzWYGLVdjjeeZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<04d8bb2b-f453-c90d-4233-9005d1969c25@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5fafc82b.1c69fb81.dff36.30f9@mx.google.com>
	<58cf47ac48davesound@btinternet.com>
	<VE1P189MB0863AA0B9CEFFEDD5CC8EB8EA7E50@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <58cf5740a1davesound@btinternet.com>

In article
<VE1P189MB0863AA0B9CEFFEDD5CC8EB8EA7E50 at VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
   Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> On two or three occasions I joined the queue for location catering. That
> was at a time when there would invariably be people there who you knew,
> so it never got questioned. It always felt good to be scoffing their
> nosh without even having to work for it!

It's quite common for neighbours to be invited for lunch at the caterers.
A way (and a cheap way) of thanking them for not complaining too much
about disruption.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Nov 14 10:07:53 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 16:07:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863EBBEA41EEB80D75CFBE0A7E50@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
	<5667EB52-2036-4D58-B067-4C3DAABD16DB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJn-pq6=f3CFZw_36Qrxmi+vk9PV-cZPAzWYGLVdjjeeZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<04d8bb2b-f453-c90d-4233-9005d1969c25@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VE1P189MB0863EBBEA41EEB80D75CFBE0A7E50@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <11b33a0f-fabe-1b27-fb04-a13abbccaee7@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 14/11/2020 13:06, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> Where are we currently in terms of irradiated food products? (milk in 
> particular). ...

Milk ~can't~ be irradiated in the UK. The fact that it keeps longer than 
it used to is because of much better hygiene, both in the farm dairy and 
in the processing plant, plus better controlled pasteurisation and "cool 
chain" supply routes.

[Raspberries] yes, fruit and vegetables ~can~ be irradiated in the UK 
(along with meat, fish, poultry and a few other categories) but they do 
have to label it clearly on the packaging. "Irradiated", "Treated with 
ionising radiation". I've never bought anything that might be in that 
category, but I would look carefully at raspberries etc that last more 
than a handful of days.

However the fruit ~might~ be packed with nitrogen flushing - that does 
prolong shelf life significantly. There's an argument that the vitamin 
content deteriorates even though the fruit doesn't actually rot, which 
isn't quite so good. But it does result in less food being thrown away.

Chris Woolf



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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov 14 10:49:14 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 16:49:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <58cf56feccdavesound@btinternet.com>
References: <58cf56feccdavesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <8D1ABFE7-9A76-499A-90CE-3CFE4A7C4669@me.com>

Breakfast this morning was crumpets , raspberries from the garden, and a big dollop of Greek yoghurt drizzled with honey.

If we don?t have any seasonal fruit, frozen berries gently warmed with cinnamon make a very acceptable substitute.

With regards to dodgy catering at Wembley, there used to be a company called ?Chef In A Box?, who supplied meals to the crew.  Each meal came in a large, rounded  expanded polystyrene container appx 30 cm wide, 30 cm high and 40cm long with moulded compartments for each item ( 1970s, so environmental issues weren?t considered ).  There was always a piping hot container of tomato soup, the usual range of sandwiches, snacks and fruit together with the worst Rum Baba ever created.  I had never had one before and didn?t fancy them after that, but one day I was served a proper one at a dinner party and it was excellent.

The problem with all those polystyrene containers was that each one was about the size of a hat box and occupied just as much space empty as when full.  A van would arrive and unload 50-100 boxes, and then go away.  The crew had to find a way of disposing of all the empties.

Meals provided by production were a bone on contention.  At one point they would supply the most basic of sandwiches and call it a meal.  The union got involved and it was decreed that unless a meaningful meal was provided, the crew could claim a standard rate meal allowance.  The definition of a meaningful meal called for a starter, main and desert, of which at least one had to be hot - hence the tomato soup because it was the cheapest way to meet the union requirement.  

I don?t recall ever having anything other than tomato soup in those boxes. As it happens, Alec Weeks ( or a least I think it was him ) despised tomato soup and when arranging for football clubs to feed the crew on MOTD, would specify that any soup served must be anything but tomato.

Alan Taylor



> On 14 Nov 2020, at 15:46, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?A favourite dessert is fresh fruit and yoghurt. Usually vanilla flavoured.
> 
> Ideally fresh berries in a standard punnet would last rather longer than
> they do. Raspberries bought from Tesco just about keep three days.    
> 
> In article
> <VE1P189MB0863EBBEA41EEB80D75CFBE0A7E50 at VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
>   Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Where are we currently in terms of irradiated food products? (milk in
>> particular). I?ve for some time suspected that there?s more of it going
>> on in supermarket products than we?re told.
> 
>> Three days ago I bought a punnet of fresh raspberries in the weekly
>> village market, as I do whenever I can. They look amazing, but really
>> need eating on the same or the next day, and after that will start to
>> look past their best. If I buy same from Sainsbury?s they will still
>> look ?as new? ten days later. And that?s just one example. French beans
>> and that total waste of space, baby broccoli, are other examples.
> 
> -- 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Sat Nov 14 10:58:49 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 16:58:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <8D1ABFE7-9A76-499A-90CE-3CFE4A7C4669@me.com>
References: <58cf56feccdavesound@btinternet.com>
	<8D1ABFE7-9A76-499A-90CE-3CFE4A7C4669@me.com>
Message-ID: <d7036552-1b55-3299-5e6b-f36d874bedb4@imixmics.co.uk>

On 14/11/2020 16:49, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:

> I don?t recall ever having anything other than tomato soup in those boxes. As it happens, Alec Weeks ( or a least I think it was him ) despised tomato soup and when arranging for football clubs to feed the crew on MOTD, would specify that any soup served must be anything but tomato.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 

...and I know why: he (or someone nearby) managed to empty said cup of 
tomato soup into his open briefcase! No wonder he didn't like the stuff.

John Nottage



From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Sat Nov 14 11:05:07 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:05:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <58cf56feccdavesound@btinternet.com>
References: <e23c7a0f-2b4a-8de3-8dd4-cd42dba816e4@imixmics.co.uk>
	<5667EB52-2036-4D58-B067-4C3DAABD16DB@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJn-pq6=f3CFZw_36Qrxmi+vk9PV-cZPAzWYGLVdjjeeZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<04d8bb2b-f453-c90d-4233-9005d1969c25@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VE1P189MB0863EBBEA41EEB80D75CFBE0A7E50@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<58cf56feccdavesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <0697c46b-ae3d-5d29-b4a4-bded36cf0993@imixmics.co.uk>

On 14/11/2020 15:37, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> A favourite dessert is fresh fruit and yoghurt. Usually vanilla flavoured.
> 
> Ideally fresh berries in a standard punnet would last rather longer than
> they do. Raspberries bought from Tesco just about keep three days.
> 

With you there Dave. Raspberries or blueberries with half a choc ice 
each & a dollop of Greek style plain yoghurt. It was blueberries today.

We did try the low fat/fat free version of the yoghurt, but it tastes 
disgusting, so that is full fat, even if our milk is semi-skimmed.

John Nottage



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Nov 14 11:12:58 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:12:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <8D1ABFE7-9A76-499A-90CE-3CFE4A7C4669@me.com>
References: <58cf56feccdavesound@btinternet.com>
	<8D1ABFE7-9A76-499A-90CE-3CFE4A7C4669@me.com>
Message-ID: <5fb0101a.1c69fb81.6cbe1.5e17@mx.google.com>

Oh Boy! Was I ever glad I went freelance!
I heard about a job that the company I worked through did not put me on. Apparently, the runner appeared with burgers at lunchtime for production. When asked where was the grub for the 3 camera crews ? nothing doing!
Had I been on the job, I would have packed up the camera kit into the car I was driving and left. (Bolshy? Moi?)
Luckily I never worked for that production company and never ever would ? I know who they were!
Look after the crew and they will work their bollocks off!
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 14 November 2020 16:49
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk

B



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From david.jasma at sky.com  Sat Nov 14 11:55:15 2020
From: david.jasma at sky.com (Dave Buckley)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 17:55:15 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] How long does food keep
References: <1876e781-eaf4-21d0-898a-d2fe53104a7a.ref@sky.com>
Message-ID: <1876e781-eaf4-21d0-898a-d2fe53104a7a@sky.com>

I've been following this thread which started about milk, and now has 
changed to how long does different food keep.

My wife came back from the weekly shop yesterday at a local Tesco's and 
while unpacking, took a hard look at some pre-packed scraped potatoes, 
which didn't look very healthy. This was confirmed when she opened them 
- somewhat smelly and one was really off. The best before date was 14th 
- that is today. Unfortunately, she didn't have the energy to take them 
back!

As for milk keeping, we've never had this problem. We have a 
fridge/freezer, and the fridge part (top) usually runs at +4C while the 
freezer is at about -10 or below.

Earlier this year, a dairy in Glasgow with local connections has been 
delivering milk two days a week (we take green top). They offered us the 
option of glass or plastic bottles - we chose plastic. To date we 
haven't had any problems apart from the fact that on some occasions we 
have to do a 'hunt the milk' as the milk wasn't where it should have 
been. There are two ways upto our property - via the drive which leads 
to a porch and what is really the back door, or steps which lead to the 
real front door, which we don't use. We like deliveries to be made to 
the porch, keeping the front door for double glazing reps!

Dave Buckley

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 14 12:14:49 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 18:14:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <5fb0101a.1c69fb81.6cbe1.5e17@mx.google.com>
References: <58cf56feccdavesound@btinternet.com>
	<8D1ABFE7-9A76-499A-90CE-3CFE4A7C4669@me.com>
	<5fb0101a.1c69fb81.6cbe1.5e17@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <8e6e2616-0ec9-89cd-e651-b6d154755054@gmail.com>

It always seemed just plain good management to look after the staff, 
whoever they were. Jobs get done better, and it's the director who has 
to live with the result, so being pleasant and efficient? is sensible. 
 ?? It's a two way street though, and one thing about everyone being 
freelance was that you could ask for people again - or not.

I was at Duxford once, on the shortest day of the year. Absolutely clear 
blue sunny sky, but not for long. At some point I declared lunch and 
said to the (staff) crew " Can we make it a reasonably quick lunch 
please?"? The cameraman said "We get an hour for lunch". "Ok", I said 
reluctantly. Him -? "From when we get to the pub".? It's 28 years on, 
and I'm still annoyed. I was being a really nice director. Still, it did 
all just get done, as the sun grew low in the sky.



B



On 14/11/2020 17:12, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Oh Boy! Was I ever glad I went freelance!
>
> I heard about a job that the company I worked through did not put me 
> on. Apparently, the runner appeared with burgers at lunchtime for 
> production. When asked where was the grub for the 3 camera crews ? 
> nothing doing!
>
> Had I been on the job, I would have packed up the camera kit into the 
> car I was driving and left. (Bolshy? Moi?)
>
> Luckily I never worked for that production company and never ever 
> would ? I know who they were!
>
> Look after the crew and they will work their bollocks off!
>
> Pat
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *Alan Taylor via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *14 November 2020 16:49
> *To: *Tech-Ops-chit-chat <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
>
> B
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
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> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov 14 13:39:25 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 19:39:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <8e6e2616-0ec9-89cd-e651-b6d154755054@gmail.com>
References: <8e6e2616-0ec9-89cd-e651-b6d154755054@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C9DCBC83-B954-4B98-8B51-DB875A59079D@me.com>

When we were shooting Box of Delights, they wanted genuine snow as it was central to the story.  The main location for those scenes was the grounds of a hotel near Aviemore and the shoot was in very early January.  It initially looked as though the snow would not be making an appearance and then it snowed suddenly and in massive quantities.  The riggers had a hell of a job getting to the location through the snow, but managed it just in time before the weather got too bad.  The crew flew up.  The heaviest snow fell during the night while we were all tucked up in bed.

The caterers planned to arrive for the middle of day one, but the roads were totally blocked and they got stuck for a few days near the border.  The hotel was happy to cater for the entire crew, but were only accustomed to providing silver service, so meals were superb,  rather formal, but unhurried. 

Shooting so far north, so close to the winter solstice meant that it was only light for a couple of hours each day. The original shooting schedule stated that the unit would break for lunch, but that would have meant stuffing our faces during the only decent bit of daylight.  Without being asked, we suggested working continuously from first light to dusk and only eat afterwards.  The Production Manager later told me that he would never have dared to ask a crew to do that on day one as meal breaks were traditionally such a sensitive subject.  For those who saw the series, you might remember that those snow scenes were awesome.  Virgin snow two feet deep for as far as the eye could see with a clear blue sky while shooting the scenes that really needed it.

The caterers did finally get through several days later.  It?s probably the only time I?ve known the crew to be disappointed when some particularly good caterers turned up on site.  The weather was so cold that when the caterers put out tea, cakes and sandwiches, the banana sandwiches froze solid.

As if shooting daylight scenes up north near the winter solstice wasn?t absurd enough, industrial action interrupted some later parts of the shoot and subsequent scenes had to be rescheduled to be shot down south later in the year, which is how we ended up doing a complex night shoot on 21st June in southern England, when it was only dark for three or four hours.

Alan Taylor





> On 14 Nov 2020, at 18:15, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? It always seemed just plain good management to look after the staff, whoever they were. Jobs get done better, and it's the director who has to live with the result, so being pleasant and efficient  is sensible.    It's a two way street though, and one thing about everyone being freelance was that you could ask for people again - or not.
> 
> I was at Duxford once, on the shortest day of the year. Absolutely clear blue sunny sky, but not for long. At some point I declared lunch and said to the (staff) crew " Can we make it a reasonably quick lunch please?"  The cameraman said "We get an hour for lunch". "Ok", I said reluctantly. Him -  "From when we get to the pub".  It's 28 years on, and I'm still annoyed. I was being a really nice director. Still, it did all just get done, as the sun grew low in the sky. 
> 
> <ailegkogobbaklhn.png>
> 
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
> On 14/11/2020 17:12, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>> Oh Boy! Was I ever glad I went freelance!
>> I heard about a job that the company I worked through did not put me on. Apparently, the runner appeared with burgers at lunchtime for production. When asked where was the grub for the 3 camera crews ? nothing doing!
>> Had I been on the job, I would have packed up the camera kit into the car I was driving and left. (Bolshy? Moi?)
>> Luckily I never worked for that production company and never ever would ? I know who they were!
>> Look after the crew and they will work their bollocks off!
>> Pat
>>  
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
>> Sent: 14 November 2020 16:49
>> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
>>  
>> B
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  	
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From waresound at msn.com  Sat Nov 14 14:56:49 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:56:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <5fb0101a.1c69fb81.6cbe1.5e17@mx.google.com>
References: <58cf56feccdavesound@btinternet.com>
	<8D1ABFE7-9A76-499A-90CE-3CFE4A7C4669@me.com>,
	<5fb0101a.1c69fb81.6cbe1.5e17@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB08638617C1558B75D3F01268A7E50@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

So do I. Professional suicide, Pat. Or would you call that early retirement?
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 14 Nov 2020, at 17:13, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]?
Had I been on the job, I would have packed up the camera kit into the car I was driving and left. (Bolshy? Moi?)
Luckily I never worked for that production company and never ever would ? I know who they were!
[snip]

Pat

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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Nov 15 02:41:29 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 08:41:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <8e6e2616-0ec9-89cd-e651-b6d154755054@gmail.com>
References: <8e6e2616-0ec9-89cd-e651-b6d154755054@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FC6264E2-A64B-4B66-9500-07BA09BC848B@me.com>


As Bernie says, the relationship between freelancers and clients is a two way street and it works both ways.

Some American TV directors can be very tricky to work with.  Colin Callow, the excellent freelance unit manager was working with a rather notorious director who fired yet another freelancer, and then expected Colin to arrange a replacement. Colin explained to the director that there are only two types of freelancers of that grade in the UK.  The ones he refuses to work with, and the ones that refuse to work with him. 

Soon after starting freelancing, I realised my that some clients were not worth the hassle. Once work built up, I decided to avoid working with such clients.   Initially it seems like a bit of a risk because you?re turning down work which you could otherwise have done, but in reality, other clients filled in the gaps and as most bookings tend to be repeat bookings, you end up only working with nice people, rarely needing to enforce the ?only nice clients? rule.

There was one OB company which had been problematic for some time. I reached the end of my tether with them and had told them that I didn?t want to work with them any more.  Despite that,  their booker subsequently  phoned me and said ?I gather you?re available on Saturday?, I said ?You need to understand that there is a difference between being available, and being available to [ your company ]?.

On another occasion I was working with the managing director of a big OB company.  During a chat, it became obvious that he believed that freelancers were always trying to screw his company.  I pointed out that freelancers often believe that clients are screwing freelancers too, but the reality is that both views are wrong. The relationship between client and freelancer is symbiotic Facility companies invest millions of pounds in state of the art OB trucks, but those trucks are worthless without people who can operate them well.  Similarly, freelancers have spent a lifetime developing skills which are worthless without the expensive equipment to operate. Freelancers need the client to be sufficiently profitable that their investment pays off, while clients need freelancers to make a sufficiently good living that it?s worth staying in the industry. If either party truly screws the other, they risk killing the goose that lays the golden egg.  He conceded that he had never thought of it in those terms before, but it made perfect sense. 

Alan Taylor




> On 14 Nov 2020, at 18:15, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? It always seemed just plain good management to look after the staff, whoever they were. Jobs get done better, and it's the director who has to live with the result, so being pleasant and efficient  is sensible.    It's a two way street though, and one thing about everyone being freelance was that you could ask for people again - or not.
> 
> I was at Duxford once, on the shortest day of the year. Absolutely clear blue sunny sky, but not for long. At some point I declared lunch and said to the (staff) crew " Can we make it a reasonably quick lunch please?"  The cameraman said "We get an hour for lunch". "Ok", I said reluctantly. Him -  "From when we get to the pub".  It's 28 years on, and I'm still annoyed. I was being a really nice director. Still, it did all just get done, as the sun grew low in the sky. 
> 
> <ailegkogobbaklhn.png>
> 
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
> On 14/11/2020 17:12, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>> Oh Boy! Was I ever glad I went freelance!
>> I heard about a job that the company I worked through did not put me on. Apparently, the runner appeared with burgers at lunchtime for production. When asked where was the grub for the 3 camera crews ? nothing doing!
>> Had I been on the job, I would have packed up the camera kit into the car I was driving and left. (Bolshy? Moi?)
>> Luckily I never worked for that production company and never ever would ? I know who they were!
>> Look after the crew and they will work their bollocks off!
>> Pat
>>  
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
>> Sent: 14 November 2020 16:49
>> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
>>  
>> B
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  	
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Nov 15 05:52:42 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 11:52:42 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Supermarket milk
In-Reply-To: <FC6264E2-A64B-4B66-9500-07BA09BC848B@me.com>
References: <8e6e2616-0ec9-89cd-e651-b6d154755054@gmail.com>
	<FC6264E2-A64B-4B66-9500-07BA09BC848B@me.com>
Message-ID: <5fb11689.1c69fb81.1aeb9.9bd0@mx.google.com>

Working under contract for Thames TV, I discovered that it was heavily unionised. Whilst camera and sound were ACTT, the unit drivers were NATKE and extremely militant. On the way back to base from a shoot somewhere in Essex, the particular driver announced his intention of stopping for his 20 minute tea break. However, threatened with GBH if he didn?t take us back to base PDQ, he grumblingly carried on driving!
A shoot in the Lake District had a lovely director who asked us that if we were happy with a sandwich for lunch, he would take us to dinner that evening. He took us to the Miller Howe, probably the finest restaurant in the UK. Dinner was a superb production, no menu ? one ate what was served that evening. The lights were dimmed as the girls brought in the dishes, all synchronised for each table, and the meal was an experience to enjoy. We were very happy to work with our director after that!
But I nearly caused a NATKE strike! Lovely shoot in Iceland for a schools programme with Pam Rhodes presenting. We leapfrogged around in a Twin Otter aircraft, and picked up self drive Landrovers when we landed. I had taken some 8mm cine and was running it in the crew room when the NATKE drivers realised that we were self driving and got pissed off that they weren?t taken on the trip. It was one of the best jobs I had ever had, as we had the experts with us for all the sites visited, better than a package tour! Some of the place names gave rise to awful jokes: ?It?s a Long Way to Akureyri? and ?Do you come here Hofn? for instance! Overflew the new island of Surtsey which had just emerged as a result of an undersea volcano eruption, and stood on a live one ? couldn?t put your hand down on the ground for more than a few moments. Rescued an abandoned puffin chick which Pam kept warm inside her anorak! Puffin was also on the menu for one place we ate, but we couldn?t bring ourselves to partake. Discovered some interesting facts ? the volcanic eruption which did for most of the town of Heimaey had deposited loads of ash which protected their roadways before the lava encroached, so the canny Icelanders swept it up and flogged it to West Germany to be compressed it into insulation boards.
Another sequence showed the knitted wool industry. The sheep?s wool is fashioned by splendid ladies into jumpers, hats, socks and blankets and the natural colours maintained. Our director was working out the next set up, turned round to find no crew ? we were all in the downstairs shop, buying up the place. I still have the woolly hat I bought for my mum, which is stretchy enough to fit over the Sennheiser headset when working outside in winter. Eating out was expensive as most foodstuffs are imported, and transferred around the island by juggernaut lorries. One place was so quiet, ideal for recording dialogue, except one could hear the lorries ten minutes before seeing them and ten minutes after they had passed.
At another place, M?vatn, we suffered a plague of small black flies. Kept the chatterboxes quiet, though, as you daren?t open your mouth! We gathered that that location was used by the Americans to train the astronauts before the moon landing, as it was thought to be similar to what they might find.
A totally fascinating country and well worth a holiday visit.
OK, Sunday School lecture over, sorry to be so longwinded, but the muse overcame me!
Pat
(Now defrosted!)

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 15 November 2020 08:41
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Supermarket milk


As Bernie says, the relationship between freelancers and clients is a two way street and it works both ways.

On 14 Nov 2020, at 18:15, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
? It always seemed just plain good management to look after the staff, whoever they were. Jobs get done better, and it's the director who has to live with the result, so being pleasant and efficient? is sensible



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From alawrance1 at me.com  Sun Nov 15 11:41:10 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 17:41:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
Message-ID: <31796A92-E6D6-4E0B-8BD5-BFE6C820AD7C@me.com>

There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some,  "The War Against the BBC".

I've put a link to it here <https://guardianbookshop.com/the-war-against-the-bbc-9780141989402.html>.


Alasdair Lawrance
alawrance1 at me.com

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.










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From tonys at tonyscott.org.uk  Sun Nov 15 12:02:18 2020
From: tonys at tonyscott.org.uk (Tony Scott)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 18:02:18 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
In-Reply-To: <31796A92-E6D6-4E0B-8BD5-BFE6C820AD7C@me.com>
References: <31796A92-E6D6-4E0B-8BD5-BFE6C820AD7C@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAOw_4rY2rznEdgXhoJrrR-a95SspYhBVA8yuyrhYNgOkYQJbsQ@mail.gmail.com>

An article by one of the authors

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1, <
tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some,  "The War
> Against the BBC".
>
> I've put a link to it here
> <https://guardianbookshop.com/the-war-against-the-bbc-9780141989402.html>.
>
>
> Alasdair Lawrance
> alawrance1 at me.com
>
>
> *Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sun Nov 15 12:24:07 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 18:24:07 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
In-Reply-To: <CAOw_4rY2rznEdgXhoJrrR-a95SspYhBVA8yuyrhYNgOkYQJbsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31796A92-E6D6-4E0B-8BD5-BFE6C820AD7C@me.com>
	<CAOw_4rY2rznEdgXhoJrrR-a95SspYhBVA8yuyrhYNgOkYQJbsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <568388A2C15349FFB42B73E49EA22ECC@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Thanks to Alasdair and Tony for publicising this. Some I?m sure will characterise this as typical Guardian publicity for anything broadly critical of the current administration but I think this is so fundamental that it completely transcends politics. Let us hope from somewhere wiser council will prevail.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Tony Scott via Tech1 
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 6:02 PM
To: Alasdair Lawrance 
Cc: Tech Ops List 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing

An article by one of the authors 

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

  There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some,  "The War Against the BBC". 

  I've put a link to it here.



  Alasdair Lawrance
  alawrance1 at me.com

  Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.











  -- 
  Tech1 mailing list
  Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
  http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



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From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 15 12:39:51 2020
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 18:39:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
In-Reply-To: <CAOw_4rY2rznEdgXhoJrrR-a95SspYhBVA8yuyrhYNgOkYQJbsQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31796A92-E6D6-4E0B-8BD5-BFE6C820AD7C@me.com>
	<CAOw_4rY2rznEdgXhoJrrR-a95SspYhBVA8yuyrhYNgOkYQJbsQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6FFD7908-EFA6-4F1E-8F0D-09D9F4D68B0D@btinternet.com>

Many thanks Tony for posting this. Much appreciated, all should read it.

> On 15 Nov 2020, at 18:02, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> An article by one of the authors
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc <https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc>
> On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some,  "The War Against the BBC".
> 
> I've put a link to it here <https://guardianbookshop.com/the-war-against-the-bbc-9780141989402.html>.
> 
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> alawrance1 at me.com <mailto:alawrance1 at me.com>
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
> -- 
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> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Nov 15 13:29:29 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 19:29:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
In-Reply-To: <6FFD7908-EFA6-4F1E-8F0D-09D9F4D68B0D@btinternet.com>
References: <31796A92-E6D6-4E0B-8BD5-BFE6C820AD7C@me.com>
	<CAOw_4rY2rznEdgXhoJrrR-a95SspYhBVA8yuyrhYNgOkYQJbsQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6FFD7908-EFA6-4F1E-8F0D-09D9F4D68B0D@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5fb18199.1c69fb81.32849.5d16@mx.google.com>


I believe that any uprising faction trying to take over a country has to first seize control of the broadcasting station/transmitters, for propaganda purposes.
Our BBC is regarded as being impartial and I?ve heard it said that the poor citizens of war inflicted Middle East countries try to listen to BBC
World Service to get the proper truth as to what is going on.
The Corporation?s motto is ?Nation Shall Speak Peace unto Nation? It tries hard to uphold that.
The Grauniad is well left wing, probably programme makers at the Beeb are also of that persuasion!
When I was there, colleagues would refer to me: ?Pat, you are so right wing that you are coming round again!?
(So bring back capital punishment! Cheaper than keeping lifers locked up and hopefully discouraging other naughty boys,
Yep, another topic to thrash out!).

OK, enough politics ? does Trump own a newspaper or TV station? He has an interest in Fox News apparently.

I?ve always considered this chat circle to replace our conversations in the tea bars, so the recent topic of ?milk? is appropriate!

Best
Pat



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Albert Barber via Tech1
Sent: 15 November 2020 18:40
To: Tony Scott
Cc: Tech Ops List
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing

Many thanks Tony for posting this. Much appreciated, all should read it.

On 15 Nov 2020, at 18:02, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

An article by one of the authors

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some, ?"The War Against the BBC".

I've put a link to it?here.

Alasdair Lawrance
alawrance1 at me.com

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.






-- 
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sun Nov 15 13:46:55 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 19:46:55 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
In-Reply-To: <5fb18199.1c69fb81.32849.5d16@mx.google.com>
References: <31796A92-E6D6-4E0B-8BD5-BFE6C820AD7C@me.com><CAOw_4rY2rznEdgXhoJrrR-a95SspYhBVA8yuyrhYNgOkYQJbsQ@mail.gmail.com><6FFD7908-EFA6-4F1E-8F0D-09D9F4D68B0D@btinternet.com>
	<5fb18199.1c69fb81.32849.5d16@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <7E8CE8FD48E344E29BA28610CF92E495@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

This thread brings up for me a renewed awareness that I don?t see every contribution. In this instance I only saw Alberts contribution because it showed in Pat?s response, the original posting didn?t come to my inbox. I know this is a bit of a chestnut but I wish I could be sure of getting the whole picture.

Dave Newbitt.

From: patheigham via Tech1 
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:29 PM
To: Albert Barber ; Tony Scott 
Cc: Tech Ops List 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing

 

I believe that any uprising faction trying to take over a country has to first seize control of the broadcasting station/transmitters, for propaganda purposes.

Our BBC is regarded as being impartial and I?ve heard it said that the poor citizens of war inflicted Middle East countries try to listen to BBC

World Service to get the proper truth as to what is going on.

The Corporation?s motto is ?Nation Shall Speak Peace unto Nation? It tries hard to uphold that.

The Grauniad is well left wing, probably programme makers at the Beeb are also of that persuasion!

When I was there, colleagues would refer to me: ?Pat, you are so right wing that you are coming round again!?

(So bring back capital punishment! Cheaper than keeping lifers locked up and hopefully discouraging other naughty boys,

Yep, another topic to thrash out!).

 

OK, enough politics ? does Trump own a newspaper or TV station? He has an interest in Fox News apparently.

 

I?ve always considered this chat circle to replace our conversations in the tea bars, so the recent topic of ?milk? is appropriate!

 

Best

Pat

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Albert Barber via Tech1
Sent: 15 November 2020 18:40
To: Tony Scott
Cc: Tech Ops List
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing

 

Many thanks Tony for posting this. Much appreciated, all should read it.

 

  On 15 Nov 2020, at 18:02, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

   

  An article by one of the authors

   

  https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc

   

  On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

    There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some,  "The War Against the BBC".

     

    I've put a link to it here.

     

    Alasdair Lawrance
    alawrance1 at me.com

    Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.





 




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
      www.avast.com 
     




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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Nov 15 14:09:13 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 20:09:13 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
In-Reply-To: <7E8CE8FD48E344E29BA28610CF92E495@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <7E8CE8FD48E344E29BA28610CF92E495@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <ABC5190E-1079-426A-BA59-A59E7576921A@me.com>

I didn?t get Albert?s reply either and wouldn?t normally have seen it in Pat?s response unless I click on the button to expand the quoted text.  If Dave hadn?t mentioned it, I would never have known that Albert had said anything.

I noticed the same thing happening a few days ago.  I can?t remember who?s comment got lost, but saw it quoted in another post and wondered why i hadn?t read that message before.  I trawled through junk, trash and all the other places where emails go to die, but there was no sign that it had ever reached me.  I also checked my email filtering because I?ve got some pretty effective filters to get rid of spam, but couldn?t see anything untoward.

Clearly it?s not just Dave, it?s me too and it?s happened on another recent thread.  Does anybody have any thoughts about what might be going wrong?  

If anybody has been wondering why they didn?t get a reply from me to a private email, it might be worth nudging me again because I?m now wondering if other emails might have vanished.

Alan Taylor



> On 15 Nov 2020, at 19:47, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> This thread brings up for me a renewed awareness that I don?t see every contribution. In this instance I only saw Alberts contribution because it showed in Pat?s response, the original posting didn?t come to my inbox. I know this is a bit of a chestnut but I wish I could be sure of getting the whole picture.
>  
> Dave Newbitt.
>  
> From: patheigham via Tech1
> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:29 PM
> To: Albert Barber ; Tony Scott
> Cc: Tech Ops List
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>  
>  
> I believe that any uprising faction trying to take over a country has to first seize control of the broadcasting station/transmitters, for propaganda purposes.
> Our BBC is regarded as being impartial and I?ve heard it said that the poor citizens of war inflicted Middle East countries try to listen to BBC
> World Service to get the proper truth as to what is going on.
> The Corporation?s motto is ?Nation Shall Speak Peace unto Nation? It tries hard to uphold that.
> The Grauniad is well left wing, probably programme makers at the Beeb are also of that persuasion!
> When I was there, colleagues would refer to me: ?Pat, you are so right wing that you are coming round again!?
> (So bring back capital punishment! Cheaper than keeping lifers locked up and hopefully discouraging other naughty boys,
> Yep, another topic to thrash out!).
>  
> OK, enough politics ? does Trump own a newspaper or TV station? He has an interest in Fox News apparently.
>  
> I?ve always considered this chat circle to replace our conversations in the tea bars, so the recent topic of ?milk? is appropriate!
>  
> Best
> Pat
>  
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Albert Barber via Tech1
> Sent: 15 November 2020 18:40
> To: Tony Scott
> Cc: Tech Ops List
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>  
> Many thanks Tony for posting this. Much appreciated, all should read it.
>  
> On 15 Nov 2020, at 18:02, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>  
> An article by one of the authors
>  
> https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc
>  
> On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some,  "The War Against the BBC".
>  
> I've put a link to it here.
>  
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> alawrance1 at me.com
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From doug at puddifoot.me  Sun Nov 15 14:30:57 2020
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 20:30:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
Message-ID: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com>

I think that some people assume they can post to the tech ops  group by hitting the "reply" button on an email they have just received. Certainly on my email program this only sends to the email originator. I have to add the tech1 address in the cc slot. If that originator then adds to the post and sends to the  tech1 address, the email that only went him/her will now be seen by all. 

Doug

On 15 November 2020, at 20:09, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

I didn?t get Albert?s reply either and wouldn?t normally have seen it in Pat?s response unless I click on the button to expand the quoted text. ?If Dave hadn?t mentioned it, I would never have known that Albert had said anything.


I noticed the same thing happening a few days ago. ?I can?t remember who?s comment got lost, but saw it quoted in another post and wondered why i hadn?t read that message before. ?I trawled through junk, trash and all the other places where emails go to die, but there was no sign that it had ever reached me. ?I also checked my email filtering because I?ve got some pretty effective filters to get rid of spam, but couldn?t see anything untoward.


Clearly it?s not just Dave, it?s me too and it?s happened on another recent thread. ?Does anybody have any thoughts about what might be going wrong? ?


If anybody has been wondering why they didn?t get a reply from me to a private email, it might be worth nudging me again because I?m now wondering if other emails might have vanished.


Alan Taylor




On 15 Nov 2020, at 19:47, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? 

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This thread brings up for me a renewed awareness that I don?t see every contribution. In this instance I only saw Alberts contribution because it showed in Pat?s response, the original posting didn?t come to my inbox. I know this is a bit of a chestnut but I wish I could be sure of getting the whole picture.

?

Dave Newbitt.

?

From: patheigham via Tech1 

Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:29 PM

To: Albert Barber ; Tony Scott 

Cc: Tech Ops List 

Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing

?

?

I believe that any uprising faction trying to take over a country has to first seize control of the broadcasting station/transmitters, for propaganda purposes.

Our BBC is regarded as being impartial and I?ve heard it said that the poor citizens of war inflicted Middle East countries try to listen to BBC

World Service to get the proper truth as to what is going on.

The Corporation?s motto is ?Nation Shall Speak Peace unto Nation? It tries hard to uphold that.

The Grauniad is well left wing, probably programme makers at the Beeb are also of that persuasion!

When I was there, colleagues would refer to me: ?Pat, you are so right wing that you are coming round again!?

(So bring back capital punishment! Cheaper than keeping lifers locked up and hopefully discouraging other naughty boys,

Yep, another topic to thrash out!).

?

OK, enough politics ? does Trump own a newspaper or TV station? He has an interest in Fox News apparently.

?

I?ve always considered this chat circle to replace our conversations in the tea bars, so the recent topic of ?milk? is appropriate!

?

Best

Pat

?

?

?

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

?

From: Albert Barber via Tech1
Sent: 15 November 2020 18:40
To: Tony Scott
Cc: Tech Ops List
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing

?

Many thanks Tony for posting this. Much appreciated, all should read it.

?

On 15 Nov 2020, at 18:02, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

An article by one of the authors

?

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc

?

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some,? "The War Against the BBC".

?

I've put a link to it here.

?

Alasdair Lawrance
alawrance1 at me.com

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



?



? 

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
www.avast.com 


-- 
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http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 15 15:34:14 2020
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 21:34:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
In-Reply-To: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com>

Many apologies to everyone!

I did assume, so sorry.

Quite right Doug. My only excuse however feeble is that I get something in the region of 60 emails a day.


Best wishes however to all in the group some who I class and very good friends and work colleagues.

Albert



> On 15 Nov 2020, at 20:30, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I think that some people assume they can post to the tech ops  group by hitting the "reply" button on an email they have just received. Certainly on my email program this only sends to the email originator. I have to add the tech1 address in the cc slot. If that originator then adds to the post and sends to the  tech1 address, the email that only went him/her will now be seen by all. 
> 
> Doug
> 
> 
> 
> On 15 November 2020, at 20:09, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
> 
> I didn?t get Albert?s reply either and wouldn?t normally have seen it in Pat?s response unless I click on the button to expand the quoted text.  If Dave hadn?t mentioned it, I would never have known that Albert had said anything.
>  
>>  
>> Dave Newbitt.
>>  
>> From: patheigham via Tech1 <>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:29 PM
>> To: Albert Barber <> ; Tony Scott <>
>> Cc: Tech Ops List <>
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>>  
>>  
>> I believe that any uprising faction trying to take over a country has to first seize control of the broadcasting station/transmitters, for propaganda purposes.
>> Our BBC is regarded as being impartial and I?ve heard it said that the poor citizens of war inflicted Middle East countries try to listen to BBC
>> World Service to get the proper truth as to what is going on.
>> The Corporation?s motto is ?Nation Shall Speak Peace unto Nation? It tries hard to uphold that.
>> The Grauniad is well left wing, probably programme makers at the Beeb are also of that persuasion!
>> When I was there, colleagues would refer to me: ?Pat, you are so right wing that you are coming round again!?
>> (So bring back capital punishment! Cheaper than keeping lifers locked up and hopefully discouraging other naughty boys,
>> Yep, another topic to thrash out!).
>>  
>> OK, enough politics ? does Trump own a newspaper or TV station? He has an interest in Fox News apparently.
>>  
>> I?ve always considered this chat circle to replace our conversations in the tea bars, so the recent topic of ?milk? is appropriate!
>>  
>> Best
>> Pat
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: Albert Barber via Tech1 <>
>> Sent: 15 November 2020 18:40
>> To: Tony Scott <>
>> Cc: Tech Ops List <>
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>>  
>> Many thanks Tony for posting this. Much appreciated, all should read it.
>>  
>> On 15 Nov 2020, at 18:02, Tony Scott via Tech1 < <>tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>  
>> An article by one of the authors
>>  
>> https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc <https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc>
>>  
>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1, < <>tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>> There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some,  "The War Against the BBC".
>>  
>> I've put a link to it here <https://guardianbookshop.com/the-war-against-the-bbc-9780141989402.html>.
>>  
>> 
>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>  <>alawrance1 at me.com <mailto:alawrance1 at me.com>
>> 
>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>	
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>> -- 
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>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 15 15:35:29 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 21:35:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Mailing list problems
Message-ID: <b0662709-5514-93a6-3f85-a92606a38311@gmail.com>

The list does have it's deficiencies but I think that the current 
"missing replies" aren't one of them, and I think that Doug is right.? 
Thunderbird for instance has a "Reply List" option, and if you are using 
Thunderbird and don't click on it, the reply only goes to the sender. I 
don't know if other mail clients have the equivalent.

On a wider note - the list uses a system called GNU Mailman, which has 
been around for a long time.? It's what my server on Site5 offers for 
this job. I did install Dada Mail a while back, and tested it with a few 
people, but we didn't think that it offered enough advantages to matter.

The on-going biggest problems are not being able to send, and not seeing 
your own emails. The first is to do with your email provider, and how it 
interprets DMARC - https://dmarc.org/. This seems to have changed and 
improved since its introduction.? The second problem also seems to be to 
do with your provider, as the list settings allow receiving your own 
messages. It's come up a good number of times over the years, and I 
haven't yet been able to fix it.

Bernie
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From techtone at protonmail.com  Sun Nov 15 15:36:52 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 21:36:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Non appearance of emails - was Beeb bashing
Message-ID: <jdh7vcq1Yst8xGjTNjKWtNAdOOBxM7vclgP8rqB0yL2CvwfDDpuvJhyJc5a6U_HSTnFbVi7-2S--0zYCrNDyys_-mkms2vnYzRI3f6wwJ_Q=@protonmail.com>

Same here. I often wonder where some emails have gone when I come across the 'original'' in someone's reply. So when I respond to an email (like now) I hit reply to all, then eliminate all bar tech 1. I also usually delete all the preceding emails that are copied into the space after my text, but I've left them here this time, just in case they've been missed by someone. That said, what would the rest of you prefer, to leave the full list of emails, as below, or simply send your own reply?

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.

??????? Original Message ???????
On Sunday, 15 November 2020 20:30, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I think that some people assume they can post to the tech ops group by hitting the "reply" button on an email they have just received. Certainly on my email program this only sends to the email originator. I have to add the tech1 address in the cc slot. If that originator then adds to the post and sends to the tech1 address, the email that only went him/her will now be seen by all.
>
> Doug
>
> On 15 November 2020, at 20:09, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I didn?t get Albert?s reply either and wouldn?t normally have seen it in Pat?s response unless I click on the button to expand the quoted text. If Dave hadn?t mentioned it, I would never have known that Albert had said anything.
>
> I noticed the same thing happening a few days ago. I can?t remember who?s comment got lost, but saw it quoted in another post and wondered why i hadn?t read that message before. I trawled through junk, trash and all the other places where emails go to die, but there was no sign that it had ever reached me. I also checked my email filtering because I?ve got some pretty effective filters to get rid of spam, but couldn?t see anything untoward.
>
> Clearly it?s not just Dave, it?s me too and it?s happened on another recent thread. Does anybody have any thoughts about what might be going wrong?
>
> If anybody has been wondering why they didn?t get a reply from me to a private email, it might be worth nudging me again because I?m now wondering if other emails might have vanished.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>> On 15 Nov 2020, at 19:47, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> ?
>> This thread brings up for me a renewed awareness that I don?t see every contribution. In this instance I only saw Alberts contribution because it showed in Pat?s response, the original posting didn?t come to my inbox. I know this is a bit of a chestnut but I wish I could be sure of getting the whole picture.
>>
>> Dave Newbitt.
>>
>> From: patheigham via Tech1
>> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:29 PM
>> To: Albert Barber ; Tony Scott
>> Cc: Tech Ops List
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>>
>> I believe that any uprising faction trying to take over a country has to first seize control of the broadcasting station/transmitters, for propaganda purposes.
>>
>> Our BBC is regarded as being impartial and I?ve heard it said that the poor citizens of war inflicted Middle East countries try to listen to BBC
>>
>> World Service to get the proper truth as to what is going on.
>>
>> The Corporation?s motto is ?Nation Shall Speak Peace unto Nation? It tries hard to uphold that.
>>
>> The Grauniad is well left wing, probably programme makers at the Beeb are also of that persuasion!
>>
>> When I was there, colleagues would refer to me: ?Pat, you are so right wing that you are coming round again!?
>>
>> (So bring back capital punishment! Cheaper than keeping lifers locked up and hopefully discouraging other naughty boys,
>>
>> Yep, another topic to thrash out!).
>>
>> OK, enough politics ? does Trump own a newspaper or TV station? He has an interest in Fox News apparently.
>>
>> I?ve always considered this chat circle to replace our conversations in the tea bars, so the recent topic of ?milk? is appropriate!
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> Sent from [Mail](https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986) for Windows 10
>>
>> From: Albert Barber via Tech1
>> Sent: 15 November 2020 18:40
>> To: Tony Scott
>> Cc: Tech Ops List
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>>
>> Many thanks Tony for posting this. Much appreciated, all should read it.
>>
>>> On 15 Nov 2020, at 18:02, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> An article by one of the authors
>>>
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc
>>>
>>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some, "The War Against the BBC".
>>>>
>>>> I've put a link to it [here](https://guardianbookshop.com/the-war-against-the-bbc-9780141989402.html).
>>>>
>>>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>>> alawrance1 at me.com
>>>>
>>>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> [Avast logo](https://www.avast.com/antivirus)
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> [www.avast.com](https://www.avast.com/antivirus)
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Nov 15 15:39:09 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 21:39:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
In-Reply-To: <F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com>
References: <F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4E7B1481-0CB1-49B6-A783-B46B633EAE43@me.com>

It looked to me as though you had included the whole group in the cc field according to the copy of your message embedded in Pat?s reply.

Alan Taylor

> On 15 Nov 2020, at 21:34, Albert Barber via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Many apologies to everyone!
> 
> I did assume, so sorry.
> 
> Quite right Doug. My only excuse however feeble is that I get something in the region of 60 emails a day.
> 
> 
> Best wishes however to all in the group some who I class and very good friends and work colleagues.
> 
> Albert
> 
> 
> 
>> On 15 Nov 2020, at 20:30, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> I think that some people assume they can post to the tech ops  group by hitting the "reply" button on an email they have just received. Certainly on my email program this only sends to the email originator. I have to add the tech1 address in the cc slot. If that originator then adds to the post and sends to the  tech1 address, the email that only went him/her will now be seen by all. 
>> 
>> Doug
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 15 November 2020, at 20:09, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I didn?t get Albert?s reply either and wouldn?t normally have seen it in Pat?s response unless I click on the button to expand the quoted text.  If Dave hadn?t mentioned it, I would never have known that Albert had said anything.
>>  
>>>  
>>> Dave Newbitt.
>>>  
>>> From: patheigham via Tech1
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:29 PM
>>> To: Albert Barber ; Tony Scott
>>> Cc: Tech Ops List
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>>>  
>>>  
>>> I believe that any uprising faction trying to take over a country has to first seize control of the broadcasting station/transmitters, for propaganda purposes.
>>> Our BBC is regarded as being impartial and I?ve heard it said that the poor citizens of war inflicted Middle East countries try to listen to BBC
>>> World Service to get the proper truth as to what is going on.
>>> The Corporation?s motto is ?Nation Shall Speak Peace unto Nation? It tries hard to uphold that.
>>> The Grauniad is well left wing, probably programme makers at the Beeb are also of that persuasion!
>>> When I was there, colleagues would refer to me: ?Pat, you are so right wing that you are coming round again!?
>>> (So bring back capital punishment! Cheaper than keeping lifers locked up and hopefully discouraging other naughty boys,
>>> Yep, another topic to thrash out!).
>>>  
>>> OK, enough politics ? does Trump own a newspaper or TV station? He has an interest in Fox News apparently.
>>>  
>>> I?ve always considered this chat circle to replace our conversations in the tea bars, so the recent topic of ?milk? is appropriate!
>>>  
>>> Best
>>> Pat
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>  
>>> From: Albert Barber via Tech1
>>> Sent: 15 November 2020 18:40
>>> To: Tony Scott
>>> Cc: Tech Ops List
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>>>  
>>> Many thanks Tony for posting this. Much appreciated, all should read it.
>>>  
>>> On 15 Nov 2020, at 18:02, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>  
>>> An article by one of the authors
>>>  
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc
>>>  
>>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some,  "The War Against the BBC".
>>>  
>>> I've put a link to it here.
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>> alawrance1 at me.com
>>> 
>>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 	
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Nov 15 15:45:14 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 21:45:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Mailing list problems
In-Reply-To: <b0662709-5514-93a6-3f85-a92606a38311@gmail.com>
References: <b0662709-5514-93a6-3f85-a92606a38311@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F6F400E1-4B64-4E2E-867C-DC646416A99B@me.com>

I use Apple Mail, both on a Mac and an iPad.  If you simply hit the reply button on that, your reply goes solely to the original sender and not the group, just as Bernie describes.

Does anybody know of a clever way of making it automatically reply to the group by default?

Alan Taylor

> On 15 Nov 2020, at 21:35, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? The list does have it's deficiencies but I think that the current "missing replies" aren't one of them, and I think that Doug is right.  Thunderbird for instance has a "Reply List" option, and if you are using Thunderbird and don't click on it, the reply only goes to the sender. I don't know if other mail clients have the equivalent.
> 
> On a wider note - the list uses a system called GNU Mailman, which has been around for a long time.  It's what my server on Site5 offers for this job. I did install Dada Mail a while back, and tested it with a few people, but we didn't think that it offered enough advantages to matter.   
> 
> The on-going biggest problems are not being able to send, and not seeing your own emails. The first is to do with your email provider, and how it interprets DMARC - https://dmarc.org/. This seems to have changed and improved since its introduction.  The second problem also seems to be to do with your provider, as the list settings allow receiving your own messages. It's come up a good number of times over the years, and I haven't yet been able to fix it.
> 
> Bernie
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sun Nov 15 16:11:18 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:11:18 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
In-Reply-To: <F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com>
	<F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Have I previously misunderstood the instruction in this connection? I thought it was the case that hitting the reply button indeed only sent the message to the sender but that hitting reply all would send to all. Is this not the case?

Dave Newbitt.

From: Albert Barber via Tech1 
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 9:34 PM
To: Doug Puddifoot ; tech1 at tech-ops co. uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing

Many apologies to everyone! 

I did assume, so sorry.

Quite right Doug. My only excuse however feeble is that I get something in the region of 60 emails a day.


Best wishes however to all in the group some who I class and very good friends and work colleagues.

Albert



  On 15 Nov 2020, at 20:30, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

  I think that some people assume they can post to the tech ops  group by hitting the "reply" button on an email they have just received. Certainly on my email program this only sends to the email originator. I have to add the tech1 address in the cc slot. If that originator then adds to the post and sends to the  tech1 address, the email that only went him/her will now be seen by all. 

  Doug



  On 15 November 2020, at 20:09, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:



  I didn?t get Albert?s reply either and wouldn?t normally have seen it in Pat?s response unless I click on the button to expand the quoted text.  If Dave hadn?t mentioned it, I would never have known that Albert had said anything.


    Dave Newbitt.

    From: patheigham via Tech1
    Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:29 PM
    To: Albert Barber ; Tony Scott
    Cc: Tech Ops List
    Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing

     
    I believe that any uprising faction trying to take over a country has to first seize control of the broadcasting station/transmitters, for propaganda purposes.
    Our BBC is regarded as being impartial and I?ve heard it said that the poor citizens of war inflicted Middle East countries try to listen to BBC
    World Service to get the proper truth as to what is going on.
    The Corporation?s motto is ?Nation Shall Speak Peace unto Nation? It tries hard to uphold that.
    The Grauniad is well left wing, probably programme makers at the Beeb are also of that persuasion!
    When I was there, colleagues would refer to me: ?Pat, you are so right wing that you are coming round again!?
    (So bring back capital punishment! Cheaper than keeping lifers locked up and hopefully discouraging other naughty boys,
    Yep, another topic to thrash out!).
     
    OK, enough politics ? does Trump own a newspaper or TV station? He has an interest in Fox News apparently.
     
    I?ve always considered this chat circle to replace our conversations in the tea bars, so the recent topic of ?milk? is appropriate!
     
    Best
    Pat
     
     
     
    Sent from Mail for Windows 10
     
    From: Albert Barber via Tech1
    Sent: 15 November 2020 18:40
    To: Tony Scott
    Cc: Tech Ops List
    Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
     
    Many thanks Tony for posting this. Much appreciated, all should read it.
     
      On 15 Nov 2020, at 18:02, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
       
      An article by one of the authors
       
      https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc
       
      On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
        There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some,  "The War Against the BBC".
         
        I've put a link to it here.
         

        Alasdair Lawrance
        alawrance1 at me.com

        Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.





     



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
         This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
          www.avast.com
         




----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    -- 
    Tech1 mailing list
    Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
    http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

    -- 
    Tech1 mailing list
    Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
    http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

  -- 
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  Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
  http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 15 16:47:51 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:47:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
In-Reply-To: <01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com>
	<F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com>
	<01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <8010c238-3036-2898-efad-06b6df1addfe@ntlworld.com>

It depends on your mail client

B



On 15/11/2020 22:11, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
> Have I previously misunderstood the instruction in this connection? I 
> thought it was the case that hitting the reply button indeed only sent 
> the message to the sender but that hitting reply all would send to 
> all. Is this not the case?
> Dave Newbitt.
> *From:* Albert Barber via Tech1
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2020 9:34 PM
> *To:* Doug Puddifoot ; tech1 at tech-ops co. uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
> Many apologies to everyone!
> I did assume, so sorry.
> Quite right Doug. My only excuse however feeble is that I get 
> something in the region of 60 emails a day.
> Best wishes however to all in the group some who I class and very good 
> friends and work colleagues.
> Albert
>> On 15 Nov 2020, at 20:30, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I think that some people assume they can post to the tech ops? group 
>> by hitting the "reply" button on an email they have just received. 
>> Certainly on my email program this only sends to the email 
>> originator. I have to add the tech1 address in the cc slot. If that 
>> originator then adds to the post and sends to the? tech1 address, the 
>> email that only went him/her will now be seen by all.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15 November 2020, at 20:09, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I didn?t get Albert?s reply either and wouldn?t normally have seen it 
>> in Pat?s response unless I click on the button to expand the quoted 
>> text.? If Dave hadn?t mentioned it, I would never have known that 
>> Albert had said anything.
>>> Dave Newbitt.
>>> *From:*patheigham via Tech1
>>> *Sent:*Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:29 PM
>>> *To:*Albert Barber;Tony Scott
>>> *Cc:*Tech Ops List
>>> *Subject:*Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>>> I believe that any uprising faction trying to take over a country 
>>> has to first seize control of the broadcasting station/transmitters, 
>>> for propaganda purposes.
>>> Our BBC is regarded as being impartial and I?ve heard it said that 
>>> the poor citizens of war inflicted Middle East countries try to 
>>> listen to BBC
>>> World Service to get the proper truth as to what is going on.
>>> The Corporation?s motto is ?Nation Shall Speak Peace unto Nation? It 
>>> tries hard to uphold that.
>>> The Grauniad is well left wing, probably programme makers at the 
>>> Beeb are also of that persuasion!
>>> When I was there, colleagues would refer to me: ?Pat, you are so 
>>> right wing that you are coming round again!?
>>> (So bring back capital punishment! Cheaper than keeping lifers 
>>> locked up and hopefully discouraging other naughty boys,
>>> Yep, another topic to thrash out!).
>>> OK, enough politics ? does Trump own a newspaper or TV station? He 
>>> has an interest in Fox News apparently.
>>> I?ve always considered this chat circle to replace our conversations 
>>> in the tea bars, so the recent topic of ?milk? is appropriate!
>>> Best
>>> Pat
>>> Sent fromMail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>for 
>>> Windows 10
>>> *From:*Albert Barber via Tech1
>>> *Sent:*15 November 2020 18:40
>>> *To:*Tony Scott
>>> *Cc:*Tech Ops List
>>> *Subject:*Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>>> Many thanks Tony for posting this. Much appreciated, all should read it.
>>>
>>>     On 15 Nov 2020, at 18:02, Tony Scott via Tech1
>>>     <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>     An article by one of the authors
>>>     https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc
>>>     <https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc>
>>>     On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1,
>>>     <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>         There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to
>>>         some,? "The War Against the BBC".
>>>         I've put a link to ithere
>>>         <https://guardianbookshop.com/the-war-against-the-bbc-9780141989402.html>.
>>>
>>>         Alasdair Lawrance
>>>         alawrance1 at me.com
>>>
>>>         */Don?t blame me, I voted Remain./*/
>>>         /
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>>>
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
>>> <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
>>> <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
>> <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 15 16:48:09 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 22:48:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
In-Reply-To: <01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com>
	<F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com>
	<01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <01129023-336a-351e-95d6-5efda54ad0ac@gmail.com>

It depends on your mail client

B



On 15/11/2020 22:11, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
> Have I previously misunderstood the instruction in this connection? I 
> thought it was the case that hitting the reply button indeed only sent 
> the message to the sender but that hitting reply all would send to 
> all. Is this not the case?
> Dave Newbitt.
> *From:* Albert Barber via Tech1
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2020 9:34 PM
> *To:* Doug Puddifoot ; tech1 at tech-ops co. uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
> Many apologies to everyone!
> I did assume, so sorry.
> Quite right Doug. My only excuse however feeble is that I get 
> something in the region of 60 emails a day.
> Best wishes however to all in the group some who I class and very good 
> friends and work colleagues.
> Albert
>> On 15 Nov 2020, at 20:30, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I think that some people assume they can post to the tech ops? group 
>> by hitting the "reply" button on an email they have just received. 
>> Certainly on my email program this only sends to the email 
>> originator. I have to add the tech1 address in the cc slot. If that 
>> originator then adds to the post and sends to the? tech1 address, the 
>> email that only went him/her will now be seen by all.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15 November 2020, at 20:09, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I didn?t get Albert?s reply either and wouldn?t normally have seen it 
>> in Pat?s response unless I click on the button to expand the quoted 
>> text.? If Dave hadn?t mentioned it, I would never have known that 
>> Albert had said anything.
>>> Dave Newbitt.
>>> *From:*patheigham via Tech1
>>> *Sent:*Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:29 PM
>>> *To:*Albert Barber;Tony Scott
>>> *Cc:*Tech Ops List
>>> *Subject:*Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>>> I believe that any uprising faction trying to take over a country 
>>> has to first seize control of the broadcasting station/transmitters, 
>>> for propaganda purposes.
>>> Our BBC is regarded as being impartial and I?ve heard it said that 
>>> the poor citizens of war inflicted Middle East countries try to 
>>> listen to BBC
>>> World Service to get the proper truth as to what is going on.
>>> The Corporation?s motto is ?Nation Shall Speak Peace unto Nation? It 
>>> tries hard to uphold that.
>>> The Grauniad is well left wing, probably programme makers at the 
>>> Beeb are also of that persuasion!
>>> When I was there, colleagues would refer to me: ?Pat, you are so 
>>> right wing that you are coming round again!?
>>> (So bring back capital punishment! Cheaper than keeping lifers 
>>> locked up and hopefully discouraging other naughty boys,
>>> Yep, another topic to thrash out!).
>>> OK, enough politics ? does Trump own a newspaper or TV station? He 
>>> has an interest in Fox News apparently.
>>> I?ve always considered this chat circle to replace our conversations 
>>> in the tea bars, so the recent topic of ?milk? is appropriate!
>>> Best
>>> Pat
>>> Sent fromMail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>for 
>>> Windows 10
>>> *From:*Albert Barber via Tech1
>>> *Sent:*15 November 2020 18:40
>>> *To:*Tony Scott
>>> *Cc:*Tech Ops List
>>> *Subject:*Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>>> Many thanks Tony for posting this. Much appreciated, all should read it.
>>>
>>>     On 15 Nov 2020, at 18:02, Tony Scott via Tech1
>>>     <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>     An article by one of the authors
>>>     https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc
>>>     <https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc>
>>>     On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1,
>>>     <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>         There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to
>>>         some,? "The War Against the BBC".
>>>         I've put a link to ithere
>>>         <https://guardianbookshop.com/the-war-against-the-bbc-9780141989402.html>.
>>>
>>>         Alasdair Lawrance
>>>         alawrance1 at me.com
>>>
>>>         */Don?t blame me, I voted Remain./*/
>>>         /
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>>>
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
>>> <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
>>> <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
>> <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 15 17:02:06 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 23:02:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Women drivers!
Message-ID: <ebe6d633-de03-9780-b518-ffb993e5f12c@btinternet.com>

Some people are so helpful! Cheers, Dave

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 15 17:15:26 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2020 23:15:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Records
Message-ID: <a64ead2c-aa14-7d63-a3c7-65d034299177@btinternet.com>

BTW, I claim the highest number of mentions from a single entry with 54 
quotes from a single query! Who would have thought that 'supermarket 
milk' would generate such interest! Cheers, Dave



From davesound at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 15 18:53:20 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 00:53:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
In-Reply-To: <01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com>
	<F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com>
	<01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <58d00daf0edavesound@btinternet.com>

There is something very odd about the software used for this group. I've
been in several similar email groups over the years, and all handle a
simple reply to group. And only to group - no CC to others offered.

But then this is the only email group I've been on that seems to allow
unlimited attachments.   



In article <01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F at DESKTOP6GGCRV1>,
   David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Have I previously misunderstood the instruction in this connection? I thought it was the case that hitting the reply button indeed only sent the message to the sender but that hitting reply all would send to all. Is this not the case?

> Dave Newbitt.

> From: Albert Barber via Tech1 
> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 9:34 PM
> To: Doug Puddifoot ; tech1 at tech-ops co. uk 
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing

> Many apologies to everyone! 

> I did assume, so sorry.

> Quite right Doug. My only excuse however feeble is that I get something in the region of 60 emails a day.


> Best wishes however to all in the group some who I class and very good friends and work colleagues.

> Albert



>   On 15 Nov 2020, at 20:30, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

>   I think that some people assume they can post to the tech ops  group by hitting the "reply" button on an email they have just received. Certainly on my email program this only sends to the email originator. I have to add the tech1 address in the cc slot. If that originator then adds to the post and sends to the  tech1 address, the email that only went him/her will now be seen by all. 

>   Doug



>   On 15 November 2020, at 20:09, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:



>   I didn?t get Albert?s reply either and wouldn?t normally have seen it in Pat?s response unless I click on the button to expand the quoted text.  If Dave hadn?t mentioned it, I would never have known that Albert had said anything.


>     Dave Newbitt.

>     From: patheigham via Tech1
>     Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:29 PM
>     To: Albert Barber ; Tony Scott
>     Cc: Tech Ops List
>     Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing

>      
>     I believe that any uprising faction trying to take over a country has to first seize control of the broadcasting station/transmitters, for propaganda purposes.
>     Our BBC is regarded as being impartial and I?ve heard it said that the poor citizens of war inflicted Middle East countries try to listen to BBC
>     World Service to get the proper truth as to what is going on.
>     The Corporation?s motto is ?Nation Shall Speak Peace unto Nation? It tries hard to uphold that.
>     The Grauniad is well left wing, probably programme makers at the Beeb are also of that persuasion!
>     When I was there, colleagues would refer to me: ?Pat, you are so right wing that you are coming round again!?
>     (So bring back capital punishment! Cheaper than keeping lifers locked up and hopefully discouraging other naughty boys,
>     Yep, another topic to thrash out!).
>      
>     OK, enough politics ? does Trump own a newspaper or TV station? He has an interest in Fox News apparently.
>      
>     I?ve always considered this chat circle to replace our conversations in the tea bars, so the recent topic of ?milk? is appropriate!
>      
>     Best
>     Pat
>      
>      
>      
>     Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>      
>     From: Albert Barber via Tech1
>     Sent: 15 November 2020 18:40
>     To: Tony Scott
>     Cc: Tech Ops List
>     Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>      
>     Many thanks Tony for posting this. Much appreciated, all should read it.
>      
>       On 15 Nov 2020, at 18:02, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>        
>       An article by one of the authors
>        
>       https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc
>        
>       On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>         There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some,  "The War Against the BBC".
>          
>         I've put a link to it here.
>          

>         Alasdair Lawrance
>         alawrance1 at me.com

>         Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.





>      



> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>          This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>           www.avast.com
>          




> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

>   -- 
>   Tech1 mailing list
>   Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>   http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tec

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From waresound at msn.com  Mon Nov 16 03:06:45 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:06:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Email etiquette (was Beeb bashing)
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863BB575A3E50CBFA3AF227A7E30@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

It seems to me to be good practice and etiquette, when replying or contributing to a thread, to change the ?Subject? when you change the direction of a conversation (viz: supermarket milk!) and only include what is now relevant or referred to in previous postings. It?s pointless cluttering up everyone?s inboxes with stuff that?s already there, maybe several times.
You may have noticed that I occasionally [snip] or [edit] out any irrelevant bits when replying or contributing, which includes removing the tech1 mailing list footer repeated six times at the bottom (left intact this time by way of illustration).
And changing the ?Subject? makes it easier to determine whether one has related a particular ?story? or exciting freelance job experience before!
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 16 Nov 2020, at 00:55, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?There is something very odd about the software used for this group. I've
> been in several similar email groups over the years, and all handle a
> simple reply to group. And only to group - no CC to others offered.
> 
> But then this is the only email group I've been on that seems to allow
> unlimited attachments.   
> 
> 
> 
> In article <01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F at DESKTOP6GGCRV1>,
>  David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Have I previously misunderstood the instruction in this connection? I thought it was the case that hitting the reply button indeed only sent the message to the sender but that hitting reply all would send to all. Is this not the case?
> 
>> Dave Newbitt.
> 
>> From: Albert Barber via Tech1
>> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 9:34 PM
>> To: Doug Puddifoot ; tech1 at tech-ops co. uk
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
> 
>> Many apologies to everyone!
> 
>> I did assume, so sorry.
> 
>> Quite right Doug. My only excuse however feeble is that I get something in the region of 60 emails a day.
> 
> 
>> Best wishes however to all in the group some who I class and very good friends and work colleagues.
> 
>> Albert
> 
> 
> 
>>> On 15 Nov 2020, at 20:30, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> I think that some people assume they can post to the tech ops  group by hitting the "reply" button on an email they have just received. Certainly on my email program this only sends to the email originator. I have to add the tech1 address in the cc slot. If that originator then adds to the post and sends to the  tech1 address, the email that only went him/her will now be seen by all.
> 
>> Doug
> 
> 
> 
>> On 15 November 2020, at 20:09, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> I didn't get Albert's reply either and wouldn't normally have seen it in Pat's response unless I click on the button to expand the quoted text.  If Dave hadn't mentioned it, I would never have known that Albert had said anything.
> 
> 
>>   Dave Newbitt.
> 
>>   From: patheigham via Tech1
>>   Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:29 PM
>>   To: Albert Barber ; Tony Scott
>>   Cc: Tech Ops List
>>   Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
> 
>>   I believe that any uprising faction trying to take over a country has to first seize control of the broadcasting station/transmitters, for propaganda purposes.
>>   Our BBC is regarded as being impartial and I've heard it said that the poor citizens of war inflicted Middle East countries try to listen to BBC
>>   World Service to get the proper truth as to what is going on.
>>   The Corporation's motto is ?Nation Shall Speak Peace unto Nation' It tries hard to uphold that.
>>   The Grauniad is well left wing, probably programme makers at the Beeb are also of that persuasion!
>>   When I was there, colleagues would refer to me: ?Pat, you are so right wing that you are coming round again!'
>>   (So bring back capital punishment! Cheaper than keeping lifers locked up and hopefully discouraging other naughty boys,
>>   Yep, another topic to thrash out!).
>>   OK, enough politics - does Trump own a newspaper or TV station? He has an interest in Fox News apparently.
>>   I've always considered this chat circle to replace our conversations in the tea bars, so the recent topic of 'milk' is appropriate!
>>   Best
>>   Pat
>>   Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>   From: Albert Barber via Tech1
>>   Sent: 15 November 2020 18:40
>>   To: Tony Scott
>>   Cc: Tech Ops List
>>   Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>>   Many thanks Tony for posting this. Much appreciated, all should read it.
>>     On 15 Nov 2020, at 18:02, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>     An article by one of the authors
>>     https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc
>>     On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>       There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some,  "The War Against the BBC".
>>       I've put a link to it here.
> 
>>       Alasdair Lawrance
>>       alawrance1 at me.com
> 
>>       Don't blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>        This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>         www.avast.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>   --
>>   Tech1 mailing list
>>   Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>   http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
>>   --
>>   Tech1 mailing list
>>   Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>   http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tec
> 
> -- 
>   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From mibridge at mac.com  Mon Nov 16 03:16:24 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:16:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Records
In-Reply-To: <a64ead2c-aa14-7d63-a3c7-65d034299177@btinternet.com>
References: <a64ead2c-aa14-7d63-a3c7-65d034299177@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <6F676D8D-44F7-4B2B-843E-F4809FA293DF@mac.com>

I think we can safely say the topic has gone off now, Dave!

Mike G

> On 15 Nov 2020, at 23:15, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?BTW, I claim the highest number of mentions from a single entry with 54 quotes from a single query! Who would have thought that 'supermarket milk' would generate such interest! Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Mon Nov 16 03:32:56 2020
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 09:32:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Records
In-Reply-To: <a64ead2c-aa14-7d63-a3c7-65d034299177@btinternet.com>
References: <a64ead2c-aa14-7d63-a3c7-65d034299177@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <A5FC1D19-C3CD-41DB-8916-AF956F1EF23A@zero51.force9.co.uk>

No surprise really, we have had such a terrible awful summer, endless scorching sunshine, having to water the garden every day and worst thing, we have all had to deal with struggling refrigerators that were incapable of doing their main task: Keeping the milk supply fresh for the relentless need for more tea. (until the sun was over the yard-arm anyway) 
It?ll be alright now though.


Peter Fox

On 15 Nov 2020, at 23:15, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?BTW, I claim the highest number of mentions from a single entry with 54 quotes from a single query! Who would have thought that 'supermarket milk' would generate such interest! Cheers, Dave


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Mon Nov 16 04:02:17 2020
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 10:02:17 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Records
In-Reply-To: <6F676D8D-44F7-4B2B-843E-F4809FA293DF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <msh1riprsab661ur0col200r.1605520937669@pgtmedia.co.uk>

Sounds to me like you are trying to milk this subject further, 
Mike?


Paul

Paul Thackray
PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
+44 7802 243979
Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
Linkedin;?? http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/



	? Original Message ?	


From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 16 November 2020 09:16
To: dave.mdv at btinternet.com
Reply to: mibridge at mac.com
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Records


I think we can safely say the topic has gone off now, Dave!

Mike G



From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Mon Nov 16 04:06:36 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 10:06:36 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
In-Reply-To: <8010c238-3036-2898-efad-06b6df1addfe@ntlworld.com>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com><F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com><01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<8010c238-3036-2898-efad-06b6df1addfe@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <07DAE14E90154184A66D213A498E41A9@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

I?ve been trying to absorb the combination of mail client dependency mentioned here with Bernie?s earlier ?Mailing List Problems? post.

In the earlier posting I note mention of the influence of one?s own provider but would comment that, with regard to seeing one?s own emails, I only find the glitch occurring with a very small percentage of my posts, suggesting that my provider is inconsistent in the way it handles messages. That would not surprise me even though I lack the tech. knowhow to speculate as to why.

To my shame I am still using Live Mail which I?m reliably informed is archaic. Fear of screwing up a transfer to say Mail & Calendar or Thunderbird stands in the way. However, Live Mail does offer a choice of ?reply? or ?reply all?. ?Reply all? results in both the sender and tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk appearing in the ?to? line but the sender repeated in the ?cc? line as shown here (this is from the head of this email where I have selected ?reply all? ). 



I have no idea whether this adds anything to the saga but I would like to say that I (and I?m sure many others) thank Bernie for his patience with members difficulties and am strongly aware that the unimaginable number of hours he must have put into all this enables a vast amount of valued communication between us all, largely glitch free.

Dave Newbitt.



From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 10:47 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Cc: Bernard Newnham 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing

It depends on your mail client

B




On 15/11/2020 22:11, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:

  Have I previously misunderstood the instruction in this connection? I thought it was the case that hitting the reply button indeed only sent the message to the sender but that hitting reply all would send to all. Is this not the case?

  Dave Newbitt.

  From: Albert Barber via Tech1 
  Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 9:34 PM
  To: Doug Puddifoot ; tech1 at tech-ops co. uk 
  Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing

  Many apologies to everyone! 

  I did assume, so sorry.

  Quite right Doug. My only excuse however feeble is that I get something in the region of 60 emails a day.


  Best wishes however to all in the group some who I class and very good friends and work colleagues.

  Albert



    On 15 Nov 2020, at 20:30, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

    I think that some people assume they can post to the tech ops  group by hitting the "reply" button on an email they have just received. Certainly on my email program this only sends to the email originator. I have to add the tech1 address in the cc slot. If that originator then adds to the post and sends to the  tech1 address, the email that only went him/her will now be seen by all. 

    Doug



    On 15 November 2020, at 20:09, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:



    I didn?t get Albert?s reply either and wouldn?t normally have seen it in Pat?s response unless I click on the button to expand the quoted text.  If Dave hadn?t mentioned it, I would never have known that Albert had said anything.

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Nov 16 04:44:47 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 10:44:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
In-Reply-To: <58d00daf0edavesound@btinternet.com>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com>
	<F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com>
	<01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<58d00daf0edavesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <637e3373-641d-e6db-f8a6-42f77694cf5e@gmail.com>

Anyone else is welcome to take over using their own software - I'm not 
in any way precious about this. The GNU Mailman system came as part of 
buying hosting on Site5 some years ago.? Initially I set up a forum, but 
people didn't understand how to use it, so I sent a few emails and this 
took off.

And there is a limit on attachments - it's 10Mb, though emails that are 
larger are saved for my perusal, and I can send or not. I worry about 
people who have incredibly slow connections having to wait hours whilst 
some joke video is downloaded.

B



On 16/11/2020 00:53, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> There is something very odd about the software used for this group. I've
> been in several similar email groups over the years, and all handle a
> simple reply to group. And only to group - no CC to others offered.
>
> But then this is the only email group I've been on that seems to allow
> unlimited attachments.
>
>
>
> In article <01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F at DESKTOP6GGCRV1>,
>     David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Have I previously misunderstood the instruction in this connection? I thought it was the case that hitting the reply button indeed only sent the message to the sender but that hitting reply all would send to all. Is this not the case?
>> Dave Newbitt.
>> From: Albert Barber via Tech1
>> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 9:34 PM
>> To: Doug Puddifoot ; tech1 at tech-ops co. uk
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>> Many apologies to everyone!
>> I did assume, so sorry.
>> Quite right Doug. My only excuse however feeble is that I get something in the region of 60 emails a day.
>
>> Best wishes however to all in the group some who I class and very good friends and work colleagues.
>> Albert
>
>
>>    On 15 Nov 2020, at 20:30, Doug Puddifoot via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>    I think that some people assume they can post to the tech ops  group by hitting the "reply" button on an email they have just received. Certainly on my email program this only sends to the email originator. I have to add the tech1 address in the cc slot. If that originator then adds to the post and sends to the  tech1 address, the email that only went him/her will now be seen by all.
>>    Doug
>
>
>>    On 15 November 2020, at 20:09, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>    I didn?t get Albert?s reply either and wouldn?t normally have seen it in Pat?s response unless I click on the button to expand the quoted text.  If Dave hadn?t mentioned it, I would never have known that Albert had said anything.
>
>>      Dave Newbitt.
>>      From: patheigham via Tech1
>>      Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 7:29 PM
>>      To: Albert Barber ; Tony Scott
>>      Cc: Tech Ops List
>>      Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>>       
>>      I believe that any uprising faction trying to take over a country has to first seize control of the broadcasting station/transmitters, for propaganda purposes.
>>      Our BBC is regarded as being impartial and I?ve heard it said that the poor citizens of war inflicted Middle East countries try to listen to BBC
>>      World Service to get the proper truth as to what is going on.
>>      The Corporation?s motto is ?Nation Shall Speak Peace unto Nation? It tries hard to uphold that.
>>      The Grauniad is well left wing, probably programme makers at the Beeb are also of that persuasion!
>>      When I was there, colleagues would refer to me: ?Pat, you are so right wing that you are coming round again!?
>>      (So bring back capital punishment! Cheaper than keeping lifers locked up and hopefully discouraging other naughty boys,
>>      Yep, another topic to thrash out!).
>>       
>>      OK, enough politics ? does Trump own a newspaper or TV station? He has an interest in Fox News apparently.
>>       
>>      I?ve always considered this chat circle to replace our conversations in the tea bars, so the recent topic of ?milk? is appropriate!
>>       
>>      Best
>>      Pat
>>       
>>       
>>       
>>      Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>       
>>      From: Albert Barber via Tech1
>>      Sent: 15 November 2020 18:40
>>      To: Tony Scott
>>      Cc: Tech Ops List
>>      Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing
>>       
>>      Many thanks Tony for posting this. Much appreciated, all should read it.
>>       
>>        On 15 Nov 2020, at 18:02, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>         
>>        An article by one of the authors
>>         
>>        https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/23/what-now-for-the-bbc
>>         
>>        On Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>          There's a book out on the 19th which may be of interest to some,  "The War Against the BBC".
>>           
>>          I've put a link to it here.
>>           
>>          Alasdair Lawrance
>>          alawrance1 at me.com
>>          Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>
>
>
>
>>       
>
>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>           This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>            www.avast.com
>>           
>
>
>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>      --
>>      Tech1 mailing list
>>      Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>      http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>      --
>>      Tech1 mailing list
>>      Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>      http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>    --
>>    Tech1 mailing list
>>    Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>    http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -- 
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From tuckergarth at me.com  Mon Nov 16 06:46:19 2020
From: tuckergarth at me.com (Garth Tucker)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 12:46:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Well left
Message-ID: <370ED433-6019-4CA5-A920-55B0FBEAC728@me.com>

Pat, stating the Guardian is 'well left wing' carries very little weight with me, the statement demonstrates, as does much of your diatribe, a low level of political comprehension. I would be happier if you could could leave politics to someone with a firmer grasp of its complexity. Garth

From nickrodger at mac.com  Mon Nov 16 07:10:56 2020
From: nickrodger at mac.com (Nick Rodger)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 13:10:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Well left
In-Reply-To: <370ED433-6019-4CA5-A920-55B0FBEAC728@me.com>
References: <370ED433-6019-4CA5-A920-55B0FBEAC728@me.com>
Message-ID: <69312FDF-A1BF-41EB-A1E7-5C1A398858F8@mac.com>

Well said Garth!!!!

Nick Rodger 
Cameraman 
07971 007578 
nickrodger at mac.com  

Sent from my iPhone. 
Please excuse typos and auto~corruptions!! 

Don?t blame me!! 
I voted Remain ??




On 16 Nov 2020, at 12:46, Garth Tucker via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?Pat, stating the Guardian is 'well left wing' carries very little weight with me, the statement demonstrates, as does much of your diatribe, a low level of political comprehension. I would be happier if you could could leave politics to someone with a firmer grasp of its complexity. Garth
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From doug at puddifoot.me  Mon Nov 16 07:27:26 2020
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Puddifoot(Doug))
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 13:27:26 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Email
In-Reply-To: <07DAE14E90154184A66D213A498E41A9@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com><F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com><01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><8010c238-3036-2898-efad-06b6df1addfe@ntlworld.com>
	<07DAE14E90154184A66D213A498E41A9@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <B613C7112EF8404E9C7E766DB0B17897@NewOffice>

I would like to echo Dave?s thanks to Bernie for all the effort he puts in to maintain tech1. It is very much appreciated especially at a time when our ?local? communication can be a little sparse. I am also still using Live Mail. Although ?archaic? it continues to to do all I need in a simple and intuitive way. There were warnings at the time Microsoft stopped supporting it in 1966 that it would in future be a ?grave security risk? and you should change to a new program.  However, I have never seen any suggestion that this may have happened. I have no intension of changing. I also have Thunderbird on a laptop, but much prefer Live Mail. Thanks Dave for the tip about ?Reply All?. I had never though to try that. I am using it for this email, and it will save me time in the future.

Doug Puddifoot

From: David Newbitt via Tech1 
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 10:06 AM
To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing

I?ve been trying to absorb the combination of mail client dependency mentioned here with Bernie?s earlier ?Mailing List Problems? post.

In the earlier posting I note mention of the influence of one?s own provider but would comment that, with regard to seeing one?s own emails, I only find the glitch occurring with a very small percentage of my posts, suggesting that my provider is inconsistent in the way it handles messages. That would not surprise me even though I lack the tech. knowhow to speculate as to why.

To my shame I am still using Live Mail which I?m reliably informed is archaic. Fear of screwing up a transfer to say Mail & Calendar or Thunderbird stands in the way. However, Live Mail does offer a choice of ?reply? or ?reply all?. ?Reply all? results in both the sender and tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk appearing in the ?to? line but the sender repeated in the ?cc? line as shown here (this is from the head of this email where I have selected ?reply all? ). 



I have no idea whether this adds anything to the saga but I would like to say that I (and I?m sure many others) thank Bernie for his patience with members difficulties and am strongly aware that the unimaginable number of hours he must have put into all this enables a vast amount of valued communication between us all, largely glitch free.

Dave Newbitt.


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Mon Nov 16 07:28:26 2020
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (David Denness)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 13:28:26 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Well left
In-Reply-To: <69312FDF-A1BF-41EB-A1E7-5C1A398858F8@mac.com>
References: <370ED433-6019-4CA5-A920-55B0FBEAC728@me.com>
	<69312FDF-A1BF-41EB-A1E7-5C1A398858F8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <000201d6bc1c$5da6ffa0$18f4fee0$@gmail.com>

Well said indeed!
It would appear that Pat is somewhat to the right of Genghis Khan
Dave D

-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Nick Rodger via Tech1
Sent: 16 November 2020 13:11
To: Garth Tucker <tuckergarth at me.com>
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Well left

Well said Garth!!!!

Nick Rodger 
Cameraman 
07971 007578 
nickrodger at mac.com  

Sent from my iPhone. 
Please excuse typos and auto~corruptions!! 

Don?t blame me!! 
I voted Remain ??




On 16 Nov 2020, at 12:46, Garth Tucker via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?Pat, stating the Guardian is 'well left wing' carries very little weight with me, the statement demonstrates, as does much of your diatribe, a low level of political comprehension. I would be happier if you could could leave politics to someone with a firmer grasp of its complexity. Garth
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Nov 16 07:34:21 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 13:34:21 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Well left
In-Reply-To: <69312FDF-A1BF-41EB-A1E7-5C1A398858F8@mac.com>
References: <370ED433-6019-4CA5-A920-55B0FBEAC728@me.com>
	<69312FDF-A1BF-41EB-A1E7-5C1A398858F8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <6a781825-bce1-728b-6ca3-3584070135cf@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Indeed.

Despite its reputation from long ago the Guardian is barely even "pink" 
nowadays. The fact that it is run by a trust, and doesn't have an 
owner's agenda to support, allows it more freedom than most other 
papers. For those that don't read it, it regularly publishes articles 
from the Tory "right" as well as the more extreme "left", but generally 
takes a "centrist" stance.

Chris Woolf

On 16/11/2020 13:10, Nick Rodger via Tech1 wrote:
> Well said Garth!!!!
>
> Nick Rodger
> Cameraman
> 07971 007578
> nickrodger at mac.com
>
> Sent from my iPhone.
> Please excuse typos and auto~corruptions!!
>
> Don?t blame me!!
> I voted Remain ??
>
>
>
>
> On 16 Nov 2020, at 12:46, Garth Tucker via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ?Pat, stating the Guardian is 'well left wing' carries very little weight with me, the statement demonstrates, as does much of your diatribe, a low level of political comprehension. I would be happier if you could could leave politics to someone with a firmer grasp of its complexity. Garth

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From doug at puddifoot.me  Mon Nov 16 07:38:54 2020
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Puddifoot(Doug))
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 13:38:54 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Email
In-Reply-To: <B613C7112EF8404E9C7E766DB0B17897@NewOffice>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com><F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com><01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><8010c238-3036-2898-efad-06b6df1addfe@ntlworld.com><07DAE14E90154184A66D213A498E41A9@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<B613C7112EF8404E9C7E766DB0B17897@NewOffice>
Message-ID: <2E55D29FBCDD4A3896451E4378FE9ED1@NewOffice>

That should have said support ended in 2016
D

From: Puddifoot(Doug) via Tech1 
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 1:27 PM
To: David Newbitt ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: [Tech1] Email

I would like to echo Dave?s thanks to Bernie for all the effort he puts in to maintain tech1. It is very much appreciated especially at a time when our ?local? communication can be a little sparse. I am also still using Live Mail. Although ?archaic? it continues to to do all I need in a simple and intuitive way. There were warnings at the time Microsoft stopped supporting it in 1966 that it would in future be a ?grave security risk? and you should change to a new program.  However, I have never seen any suggestion that this may have happened. I have no intension of changing. I also have Thunderbird on a laptop, but much prefer Live Mail. Thanks Dave for the tip about ?Reply All?. I had never though to try that. I am using it for this email, and it will save me time in the future.

Doug Puddifoot

From: David Newbitt via Tech1 
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 10:06 AM
To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Beeb bashing

I?ve been trying to absorb the combination of mail client dependency mentioned here with Bernie?s earlier ?Mailing List Problems? post.

In the earlier posting I note mention of the influence of one?s own provider but would comment that, with regard to seeing one?s own emails, I only find the glitch occurring with a very small percentage of my posts, suggesting that my provider is inconsistent in the way it handles messages. That would not surprise me even though I lack the tech. knowhow to speculate as to why.

To my shame I am still using Live Mail which I?m reliably informed is archaic. Fear of screwing up a transfer to say Mail & Calendar or Thunderbird stands in the way. However, Live Mail does offer a choice of ?reply? or ?reply all?. ?Reply all? results in both the sender and tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk appearing in the ?to? line but the sender repeated in the ?cc? line as shown here (this is from the head of this email where I have selected ?reply all? ). 



I have no idea whether this adds anything to the saga but I would like to say that I (and I?m sure many others) thank Bernie for his patience with members difficulties and am strongly aware that the unimaginable number of hours he must have put into all this enables a vast amount of valued communication between us all, largely glitch free.

Dave Newbitt.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
      www.avast.com 
     




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov 16 08:02:24 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 14:02:24 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Email
In-Reply-To: <B613C7112EF8404E9C7E766DB0B17897@NewOffice>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com><F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com><01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><8010c238-3036-2898-efad-06b6df1addfe@ntlworld.com>
	<07DAE14E90154184A66D213A498E41A9@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<B613C7112EF8404E9C7E766DB0B17897@NewOffice>
Message-ID: <58d055ed0adavesound@btinternet.com>

I'd like to add my thanks to Bernie too. I would add that the other email
groups I used in the past were likely run by Yahoo and free. They are
about to discontinue this service. I'd guess this one isn't free.

I use an older email prog than I'd guess any of you. Pluto on a RISC OS
machine. Why? You can send me as many viruses etc as you want to - likely
no one now makes one that would effect a OS this old and so little used. 

I also download all emails and archive them once a year. Text only.
Obviously delete any spam etc before doing so. Although emails from groups
such as this aren't included, as someone will likely archive then anyway.

It does seem odd that having done a reply to a post from Doug that the
reply addresses are David Newbit and the tech ops one. I've edited it to
only tech ops.         


In article <B613C7112EF8404E9C7E766DB0B17897 at NewOffice>,
   Puddifoot\(Doug\) via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I would like to echo Dave?s thanks to Bernie for all the effort he puts in to maintain tech1. It is very much appreciated especially at a time when our ?local? communication can be a little sparse. I am also still using Live Mail. Although ?archaic? it continues to to do all I need in a simple and intuitive way. There were warnings at the time Microsoft stopped supporting it in 1966 that it would in future be a ?grave security risk? and you should change to a new program.  However, I have never seen any suggestion that this may have happened. I have no intension of changing. I also have Thunderbird on a laptop, but much prefer Live Mail. Thanks Dave for the tip about ?Reply All?. I had never though to try that. I am using it for this email, and it will save me time in the future.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Nov 16 09:17:43 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 15:17:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] To lift the sprits..
In-Reply-To: <58d055ed0adavesound@btinternet.com>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com>
	<F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com>
	<01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<8010c238-3036-2898-efad-06b6df1addfe@ntlworld.com>
	<07DAE14E90154184A66D213A498E41A9@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<B613C7112EF8404E9C7E766DB0B17897@NewOffice>
	<58d055ed0adavesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <ddd9d8da-f33b-a23e-5fc4-e45e4fe8f8c1@chriswoolf.co.uk>

I have been plumbing a large storage tank for watering our veggie patch. 
The pipes run under a shed, which houses the pumpery and other gear. The 
pipework uses 32mm poly pipe, which is notorious for being very stiff 
and hard to bend into position.... and inevitably I had some leaks from 
the 90? joints under the shed. To tighten them I needed a relatively 
compact pipe wrench - no room for a big Stilsons.

So I nipped down to the nearby Toolstation. There I was met by a lovely 
lady who was cleaning up the catalogue area to make it Covid safe, and 
gently bemoaning the messy state it had been left in. "Typical," she 
tutted. " Just like men!" I laughed and politely agreed.

"What can I get, sir?"? "A pipe wrench, part #xxxxx - the one with a 
short handle and a big mouth".

She came back instantly "Just like men!"


Chris Woolf


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Mon Nov 16 09:28:01 2020
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 15:28:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] To lift the sprits..
In-Reply-To: <ddd9d8da-f33b-a23e-5fc4-e45e4fe8f8c1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com>
	<F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com>
	<01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<8010c238-3036-2898-efad-06b6df1addfe@ntlworld.com>
	<07DAE14E90154184A66D213A498E41A9@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<B613C7112EF8404E9C7E766DB0B17897@NewOffice>
	<58d055ed0adavesound@btinternet.com>
	<ddd9d8da-f33b-a23e-5fc4-e45e4fe8f8c1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <94D036C3-0E50-4109-9774-9EC249B7CF58@btinternet.com>

Anyone remember the girl in pres. we used to call ?Spanner??
Work out the reason yourselves. 
Best to all
AB


> On 16 Nov 2020, at 15:17, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I have been plumbing a large storage tank for watering our veggie patch. The pipes run under a shed, which houses the pumpery and other gear. The pipework uses 32mm poly pipe, which is notorious for being very stiff and hard to bend into position.... and inevitably I had some leaks from the 90? joints under the shed. To tighten them I needed a relatively compact pipe wrench - no room for a big Stilsons.
> 
> So I nipped down to the nearby Toolstation. There I was met by a lovely lady who was cleaning up the catalogue area to make it Covid safe, and gently bemoaning the messy state it had been left in. "Typical," she tutted. " Just like men!" I laughed and politely agreed.
> 
> "What can I get, sir?"  "A pipe wrench, part #xxxxx - the one with a short handle and a big mouth".
> 
> She came back instantly "Just like men!"
> 
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From doug at puddifoot.me  Mon Nov 16 09:59:15 2020
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Puddifoot(Doug))
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 15:59:15 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb Computers
In-Reply-To: <58d055ed0adavesound@btinternet.com>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com><F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com><01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><8010c238-3036-2898-efad-06b6df1addfe@ntlworld.com><07DAE14E90154184A66D213A498E41A9@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><B613C7112EF8404E9C7E766DB0B17897@NewOffice>
	<58d055ed0adavesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5CBEC213BE7B4ED3B925E79B88DD3F14@NewOffice>

How amazing that a RISC OS machine is still working, presumably a Beeb. I 
still have buried somewhere my BBC Micro, and also an Archimedes. Also I 
still have copies of the "Archive" magazine. I only stopped using Arch 
because my wife started using a PC at work, and we needed a compatible 
computer at home.  My first computer came from the US as a large printed 
circuit board with the keyboard at the front and the IC's at the back. 
Operating system on 8K of rom, and space for 32K of ram. This was then 
cloned by a UK company, and called the UK101. It became very popular with 
Beeb staff, and Peter Leverick, Mike Colcutt and I decided to try and write 
a space program for it. We had great difficulties with the maths to keep a 
ship in orbit having got it there. We would bring a micro in to work and set 
it up in a tech area. We put a ship in orbit, and then went for the morning 
rehearsal. We returned at lunchtime to see if it had crashed into earth or 
spun off into space. Mike, our maths expert, would tweak the equations, and 
we would set it off for the afternoon session. It became clear that the 
limitations of graphics, speed, and BASIC programming were beyond out 
ambitions, but we all learned a lot about programming. I went on to 
developed a program in BASIC which calculated and printed out the whole 
crews time sheets. It ran to forty eight pages of closely typed text.

RISC OS was a wonderful system and I have fond memories of it. Now, where 
is that Archimedes?

Doug Puddifoot


-----Original Message----- 
From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 2:02 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Email

I'd like to add my thanks to Bernie too. I would add that the other email
groups I used in the past were likely run by Yahoo and free. They are
about to discontinue this service. I'd guess this one isn't free.

I use an older email prog than I'd guess any of you. Pluto on a RISC OS
machine. Why? You can send me as many viruses etc as you want to - likely
no one now makes one that would effect a OS this old and so little used.

I also download all emails and archive them once a year. Text only.
Obviously delete any spam etc before doing so. Although emails from groups
such as this aren't included, as someone will likely archive then anyway.

It does seem odd that having done a reply to a post from Doug that the
reply addresses are David Newbit and the tech ops one. I've edited it to
only tech ops.



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov 16 10:10:01 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 16:10:01 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] To lift the sprits..
In-Reply-To: <ddd9d8da-f33b-a23e-5fc4-e45e4fe8f8c1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com>
	<F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com>
	<01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<8010c238-3036-2898-efad-06b6df1addfe@ntlworld.com>
	<07DAE14E90154184A66D213A498E41A9@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<B613C7112EF8404E9C7E766DB0B17897@NewOffice>
	<58d055ed0adavesound@btinternet.com>
	<ddd9d8da-f33b-a23e-5fc4-e45e4fe8f8c1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <58d0619cc9davesound@btinternet.com>

Nice story. Must admit to doing online click and collect with both
Screwfix and Toolstation. So the only thing you have to handle is the
goods themselves.
Their stock control seems pretty good - if they say your branch has it
online, it usually does, in my experience. Unlike the Screwfix parent B&Q
which is a nightmare.


In article <ddd9d8da-f33b-a23e-5fc4-e45e4fe8f8c1 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
   Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I have been plumbing a large storage tank for watering our veggie patch. 
> The pipes run under a shed, which houses the pumpery and other gear. The 
> pipework uses 32mm poly pipe, which is notorious for being very stiff 
> and hard to bend into position.... and inevitably I had some leaks from 
> the 90? joints under the shed. To tighten them I needed a relatively 
> compact pipe wrench - no room for a big Stilsons.

> So I nipped down to the nearby Toolstation. There I was met by a lovely 
> lady who was cleaning up the catalogue area to make it Covid safe, and 
> gently bemoaning the messy state it had been left in. "Typical," she 
> tutted. " Just like men!" I laughed and politely agreed.

> "What can I get, sir?"  "A pipe wrench, part #xxxxx - the one with a 
> short handle and a big mouth".

> She came back instantly "Just like men!"


> Chris Woolf


> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus


> --

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Mon Nov 16 10:34:38 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 16:34:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Email
In-Reply-To: <58d055ed0adavesound@btinternet.com>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com>
	<F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com>
	<01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<8010c238-3036-2898-efad-06b6df1addfe@ntlworld.com>
	<07DAE14E90154184A66D213A498E41A9@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<B613C7112EF8404E9C7E766DB0B17897@NewOffice>
	<58d055ed0adavesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <e291b208-4bb8-7565-3e03-1c9751bbb999@imixmics.co.uk>

Even though my Acorn computer disappeared about 2 computers ago, I still 
have the Risc OS reference manuals & several Acorn software manuals (pic 
attached)! I really should have a clear out. If anyone want them before 
they get dumped in the recycling & can work out a way to get them from 
my house on the Suffolk coast, you're welcome to them. Trouble is, books 
are so heavy!

For some time I had a soft Acorn running on my Windows PC, which is why 
I kept the books, but that started failing, so I abandoned it.

John Nottage

On 16/11/2020 14:02, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> I'd like to add my thanks to Bernie too. I would add that the other email
> groups I used in the past were likely run by Yahoo and free. They are
> about to discontinue this service. I'd guess this one isn't free.
> 
> I use an older email prog than I'd guess any of you. Pluto on a RISC OS
> machine. Why? You can send me as many viruses etc as you want to - likely
> no one now makes one that would effect a OS this old and so little used.
> 
> I also download all emails and archive them once a year. Text only.
> Obviously delete any spam etc before doing so. Although emails from groups
> such as this aren't included, as someone will likely archive then anyway.
> 
> It does seem odd that having done a reply to a post from Doug that the
> reply addresses are David Newbit and the tech ops one. I've edited it to
> only tech ops.
> 


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From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov 16 10:37:43 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 16:37:43 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb Computers.
Message-ID: <58d0642643davesound@btinternet.com>


This one is a very different beast to the old BEEB machines. But nothing
like a state of the art RISC OS machine these days as it's 25 years old.

I use it in conjunction with a PC. Shares keyboard, monitor, mouse,
speakers, printer. etc.

I have a Viewfinder card in it, so it does modern display resolutions with
a digital output.

The browsers on RISC OS are poor, but all I have to do is click on the URL
(in say an email) to launch that on Firefox in the PC.

Apart from email, the main reason I use it is for technical drawing. Using
a prog I have used for years (ProCAD Plus) since I know it and it does
everything I want. Uses standard files which can be shared with other CAD
progs. The devil you know. ;-)

I'm sure it would be no use for gaming. But then neither am I. ;-)

In article <5CBEC213BE7B4ED3B925E79B88DD3F14 at NewOffice>,
   Puddifoot\(Doug\) <doug at puddifoot.me> wrote:
> How amazing that a RISC OS machine is still working, presumably a Beeb.
> I still have buried somewhere my BBC Micro, and also an Archimedes. Also
> I still have copies of the "Archive" magazine. I only stopped using Arch
> because my wife started using a PC at work, and we needed a compatible
> computer at home.  My first computer came from the US as a large printed
> circuit board with the keyboard at the front and the IC's at the back.
> Operating system on 8K of rom, and space for 32K of ram. This was then
> cloned by a UK company, and called the UK101. It became very popular
> with Beeb staff, and Peter Leverick, Mike Colcutt and I decided to try
> and write a space program for it. We had great difficulties with the
> maths to keep a ship in orbit having got it there. We would bring a
> micro in to work and set it up in a tech area. We put a ship in orbit,
> and then went for the morning rehearsal. We returned at lunchtime to see
> if it had crashed into earth or spun off into space. Mike, our maths
> expert, would tweak the equations, and we would set it off for the
> afternoon session. It became clear that the limitations of graphics,
> speed, and BASIC programming were beyond out ambitions, but we all
> learned a lot about programming. I went on to developed a program in
> BASIC which calculated and printed out the whole crews time sheets. It
> ran to forty eight pages of closely typed text.

> RISC OS was a wonderful system and I have fond memories of it. Now,
> where is that Archimedes?

> Doug Puddifoot


> -----Original Message----- From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 Sent: Monday,
> November 16, 2020 2:02 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1]
> Email

> I'd like to add my thanks to Bernie too. I would add that the other
> email groups I used in the past were likely run by Yahoo and free. They
> are about to discontinue this service. I'd guess this one isn't free.

> I use an older email prog than I'd guess any of you. Pluto on a RISC OS
> machine. Why? You can send me as many viruses etc as you want to -
> likely no one now makes one that would effect a OS this old and so
> little used.

> I also download all emails and archive them once a year. Text only.
> Obviously delete any spam etc before doing so. Although emails from
> groups such as this aren't included, as someone will likely archive then
> anyway.

> It does seem odd that having done a reply to a post from Doug that the
> reply addresses are David Newbit and the tech ops one. I've edited it to
> only tech ops.

-- Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From dicksharon at tiscali.co.uk  Mon Nov 16 10:47:19 2020
From: dicksharon at tiscali.co.uk (dick)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 16:47:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] UK101
Message-ID: <4f9a0354-96c6-1ba6-7401-61777e7c35c8@tiscali.co.uk>

I still have a UK101 with quite a few games (which I now have as MP3 
files), a BBC micro with a modified Replay Rom which helped me unprotect 
lots of 'protected' games. Most of these I uploaded to 
www.stairwaytohell.com. (I left my name in the code of most of my 
contributions - see if you can find them*) and an Archimedes A3020 on 
which I designed the interior of my narrowboat on the in-built ?Draw? 
program. A beautiful machine which I used this right up to the 1990s 
when I went PC. I haven't used the Archimedes since then!
I replaced the power supply capacitors in the BBC about 7 years ago but 
the last time I switched on the UK101 it 'hung' half way through 
boot-up. That was 2 years ago and I keep meaning to investigate but life 
is so hectic in lockdown!

* You don?t need a BBC micro, just load the files into ?Notepad?.



From tuckergarth at me.com  Tue Nov 17 02:33:51 2020
From: tuckergarth at me.com (Garth Tucker)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 08:33:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] In passing . . .
Message-ID: <C0929DA0-8617-4263-8182-E06D72209602@me.com>

I merely note in passing that the ?well left? newspaper yesterday printed a half-page article by Dominic Grieve who in the recent past was the Conservative?s Attorney General. Garth
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From relong at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 17 04:05:20 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 10:05:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] In passing . . .
In-Reply-To: <C0929DA0-8617-4263-8182-E06D72209602@me.com>
References: <C0929DA0-8617-4263-8182-E06D72209602@me.com>
Message-ID: <B8291F7F-7FBF-449E-9D8A-CE8089CA3DB3@btinternet.com>

The Telegraph has articles from prominent leftists on occasion,  this does not show comminality of thought, merely an attempt to show some diversity of opinion.
The Spectator is a particular diverse organ, something the Guardian cannot replicate, nor the BBC.
All the print media are struggling and are frantic for readership, hence the desperation of reporting standards.
Whatever happened to What, Where ,How and When which used to be the byword of the 4th Estate?

> On 17 Nov 2020, at 08:33, Garth Tucker via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I merely note in passing that the ?well left? newspaper yesterday printed a half-page article by Dominic Grieve who in the recent past was the Conservative?s Attorney General. Garth
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Tue Nov 17 04:17:37 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 10:17:37 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] In passing . . .
In-Reply-To: <C0929DA0-8617-4263-8182-E06D72209602@me.com>
References: <C0929DA0-8617-4263-8182-E06D72209602@me.com>
Message-ID: <F321F39F3C0340E8A1A2415D5B08B9AB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

It may just be ?in passing? Garth but I think you make an important point. Not everything broadly emanating from either ?right? or ?left-leaning? sources is governed by those handles. There are of course issues which are often seen as political but in fact are more to do with an apolitical sense of right and wrong.

So, when Pat posted in this ?well left? vein, it was his expressed view re his own enthusiasm for capital punishment (identifying it as right wing) that saddened me most. As I?m sure we all recall, the issues that characterised the parliamentary debate over many years were not specifically politically polarised. I think it salutary to note how, since the abolition of the death sentence, there have been a number of people serving life sentences who subsequently proved to have been wrongly convicted. Whilst society has no way of undoing that, we are at least able to acknowledge the injustice and, however late in the day, give back to the unfortunate victims their freedom. Difficult to try to redress a wrong if the person had lost their life rather than their freedom.

The last thing I would wish to see between us all is differing viewpoints evolving into sniping. I?m trying to express what I say here in the most temperate and least aggressive way I can, but I hope it is ok for me to comment without acrimony.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Garth Tucker via Tech1 
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 8:33 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: [Tech1] In passing . . .

I merely note in passing that the ?well left? newspaper yesterday printed a half-page article by Dominic Grieve who in the recent past was the Conservative?s Attorney General. Garth 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From tonynuttall at me.com  Tue Nov 17 04:55:01 2020
From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 10:55:01 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Morning Paers
Message-ID: <ae417fce-8697-48df-a08f-d77acf3c615b@me.com>

As a young man in my?very early twenties I spent two years working in
Health Physics at the then new Salford University Dept of Nuclear Physics.
I was waiting for the embargo on recuitment to be lifted by the BBC.
One chap I always found very interesting to discuss matters with was a
very senior Lab Tech who was very well qualified in Accelorator Theory
& Practice. He ran the?departments Van der Graaff?Accelerator. He was always very
well Informed on the industrial and political thoughts and actions of the UK Government.
I was rather interested?one day to find out that he read the Daily Telegraph and the
Financial Times . When asked why a card carrying member of the Communist Party?
like him read the Tory Graf & the FT he told me to read between the lines in each publication.
His opinion was that was the way to find out how the UK worked in all aspects of life!

Tony N.

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From hughsheppard at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 17 06:01:04 2020
From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:01:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] In passing . . .
In-Reply-To: <F321F39F3C0340E8A1A2415D5B08B9AB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <C0929DA0-8617-4263-8182-E06D72209602@me.com>
	<F321F39F3C0340E8A1A2415D5B08B9AB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <f0d1ae3d-0b63-b28f-7fab-befc664a3d79@btinternet.com>

With this website's non-political tenets in mind, it seems timely to 
quote a non-Beeb friend's observation of this morning:

    '/Why do those who object to the BBC as a public service get so
    het-up over the//salaries it pays in response to market forces/?'

Or is that perhaps 'political'?

Hugh


On 17-Nov-20 10:17 AM, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
> It may just be ?in passing? Garth but I think you make an important 
> point. Not everything broadly emanating from either ?right? or 
> ?left-leaning? sources is governed by those handles. There are of 
> course issues which are often seen as political but in fact are more 
> to do with an apolitical sense of right and wrong.
> So, when Pat posted in this ?well left? vein, it was his expressed 
> view re his own enthusiasm for capital punishment (identifying it as 
> right wing) that saddened me most. As I?m sure we all recall, the 
> issues that characterised the parliamentary debate over many years 
> were not specifically politically polarised. I think it salutary to 
> note how, since the abolition of the death sentence, there have been a 
> number of people serving life sentences who subsequently proved to 
> have been wrongly convicted. Whilst society has no way of undoing 
> that, we are at least able to acknowledge the injustice and, however 
> late in the day, give back to the unfortunate victims their freedom. 
> Difficult to try to redress a wrong if the person had lost their life 
> rather than their freedom.
> The last thing I would wish to see between us all is differing 
> viewpoints evolving into sniping. I?m trying to express what I say 
> here in the most temperate and least aggressive way I can, but I hope 
> it is ok for me to comment without acrimony.
> Dave Newbitt.
> *From:* Garth Tucker via Tech1
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2020 8:33 AM
> *To:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject:* [Tech1] In passing . . .
> I merely note in passing that the ?well left? newspaper yesterday 
> printed a half-page article by Dominic Grieve who in the recent past 
> was the Conservative?s Attorney General. Garth
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

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From alawrance1 at me.com  Tue Nov 17 06:18:26 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:18:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] In passing . . .
In-Reply-To: <f0d1ae3d-0b63-b28f-7fab-befc664a3d79@btinternet.com>
References: <C0929DA0-8617-4263-8182-E06D72209602@me.com>
	<F321F39F3C0340E8A1A2415D5B08B9AB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<f0d1ae3d-0b63-b28f-7fab-befc664a3d79@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <DC0A4BFC-96EB-4BD2-8FC9-3878F6E8058B@me.com>

A very good point , Hugh.  And it's always criticised in terms of 'audience share', with no attempt to compare 'audience appreciation'.  I can't imagine the BBC commissioning "When Ghosts Attack", for example.

It's worth having a read of these two links - here <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-54885985>, and here <https://inews.co.uk/news/media/bbc-channel-4-future-industry-insider-panel-viewers-excluded-755267>.


Alasdair Lawrance
alawrance1 at me.com

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 17 Nov 2020, at 12:01, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> With this website's non-political tenets in mind, it seems timely to quote a non-Beeb friend's observation of this morning:
> ' Why do those who object to the BBC as a public service get so het-up over the salaries it pays in response to market forces?'
> Or is that perhaps 'political'?
> 
> Hugh
> 
> 
> On 17-Nov-20 10:17 AM, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
>> It may just be ?in passing? Garth but I think you make an important point. Not everything broadly emanating from either ?right? or ?left-leaning? sources is governed by those handles. There are of course issues which are often seen as political but in fact are more to do with an apolitical sense of right and wrong.
>>  
>> So, when Pat posted in this ?well left? vein, it was his expressed view re his own enthusiasm for capital punishment (identifying it as right wing) that saddened me most. As I?m sure we all recall, the issues that characterised the parliamentary debate over many years were not specifically politically polarised. I think it salutary to note how, since the abolition of the death sentence, there have been a number of people serving life sentences who subsequently proved to have been wrongly convicted. Whilst society has no way of undoing that, we are at least able to acknowledge the injustice and, however late in the day, give back to the unfortunate victims their freedom. Difficult to try to redress a wrong if the person had lost their life rather than their freedom.
>>  
>> The last thing I would wish to see between us all is differing viewpoints evolving into sniping. I?m trying to express what I say here in the most temperate and least aggressive way I can, but I hope it is ok for me to comment without acrimony.
>>  
>> Dave Newbitt.
>>  
>> From: Garth Tucker via Tech1 <>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 8:33 AM
>> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <>
>> Subject: [Tech1] In passing . . .
>>  
>> I merely note in passing that the ?well left? newspaper yesterday printed a half-page article by Dominic Grieve who in the recent past was the Conservative?s Attorney General. Garth
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Tue Nov 17 06:56:13 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 12:56:13 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Nice edit
Message-ID: <d63c7837-215e-c8d5-306d-8ebed356d0f2@imixmics.co.uk>

It seems Trump has conceded. Don't believe me? (why should you!) Have a 
look at The Tonight Show from 5mins 30secs in...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao8pGE1V1sI

John Nottage


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Nov 17 07:40:52 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 13:40:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Well left
In-Reply-To: <69312FDF-A1BF-41EB-A1E7-5C1A398858F8@mac.com>
References: <370ED433-6019-4CA5-A920-55B0FBEAC728@me.com>
	<69312FDF-A1BF-41EB-A1E7-5C1A398858F8@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5fb3d2e4.1c69fb81.6793f.1c7d@mx.google.com>

Oops! I apologise for inflicting my strong opinions. Nothing like chucking a brick in the pond to see what the ripples reveal!
It might be worth a glance at a survey result (2017):
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/03/07/how-left-or-right-wing-are-uks-newspapers

Or for a bit of lightheartedness, a clip from ?Yes Minister?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M

It?s a poor quality upload, sadly.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Nick Rodger via Tech1
Sent: 16 November 2020 13:11
To: Garth Tucker
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Well left

W



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 17 08:08:18 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 14:08:18 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Well left
In-Reply-To: <5fb3d2e4.1c69fb81.6793f.1c7d@mx.google.com>
References: <370ED433-6019-4CA5-A920-55B0FBEAC728@me.com>
	<69312FDF-A1BF-41EB-A1E7-5C1A398858F8@mac.com>
	<5fb3d2e4.1c69fb81.6793f.1c7d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <58d0da4ce5davesound@btinternet.com>

In article <5fb3d2e4.1c69fb81.6793f.1c7d at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Oops! I apologise for inflicting my strong opinions. Nothing like
> chucking a brick in the pond to see what the ripples reveal! It might be
> worth a glance at a survey result (2017): https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/03/07/how-left-or-right-wing-are-uks-newspapers

'YouGov' despite its official sounding name is just another market
research firm using internet surveys.

Now I dunno about others, but when I get asked to provide data to a
company for free so they can make money from it, if I do answer it
(unlikely) I lie.

I'm fed up to the back teeth of companies like this wanting my services
for free.  

I'm also fed up of near every company I buy from online wanting me to fill
in a survey - heavily loaded to tell them they are wonderful.  



> Or for a bit of lightheartedness, a clip from ?Yes Minister?:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M

> It?s a poor quality upload, sadly. Pat

> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

> From: Nick Rodger via Tech1
> Sent: 16 November 2020 13:11
> To: Garth Tucker
> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Well left

> W



> -- 
> Th

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov 16 18:27:15 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 00:27:15 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Beeb Computers
In-Reply-To: <5CBEC213BE7B4ED3B925E79B88DD3F14@NewOffice>
References: <r80r2wy9hdv5nmc9oym71ust.1605472047121@email.android.com><F8715344-B4BB-45EA-992C-0956914BD707@btinternet.com><01982CB3EADA4371934C83B2F3FC6B6F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><8010c238-3036-2898-efad-06b6df1addfe@ntlworld.com><07DAE14E90154184A66D213A498E41A9@DESKTOP6GGCRV1><B613C7112EF8404E9C7E766DB0B17897@NewOffice>
	<58d055ed0adavesound@btinternet.com>
	<5CBEC213BE7B4ED3B925E79B88DD3F14@NewOffice>
Message-ID: <58d08f22bbdavesound@btinternet.com>

This one is a very different beast to the old BEEB machines. But nothing
like a state of the art RISC OS machine these days as it's 25 years old.

I use it in conjunction with a PC. Shares keyboard, monitor, mouse,
speakers, printer. etc.

I have a Viewfinder card in it, so it does modern display resolutions with
a digital output.

The browsers on RISC OS are poor, but all I have to do is click on the URL
(in say an email) to launch that on Firefox in the PC.

Apart from email, the main reason I use it is for technical drawing. Using
a prog I have used for years (ProCAD Plus) since I know it and it does
everything I want. Uses standard files which can be shared with other CAD
progs. The devil you know. ;-)

I'm sure it would be no use for gaming. But then neither am I. ;-)







In article <5CBEC213BE7B4ED3B925E79B88DD3F14 at NewOffice>,
   Puddifoot\(Doug\) via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> How amazing that a RISC OS machine is still working, presumably a Beeb. I
> still have buried somewhere my BBC Micro, and also an Archimedes. Also I
> still have copies of the "Archive" magazine. I only stopped using Arch
> because my wife started using a PC at work, and we needed a compatible
> computer at home.  My first computer came from the US as a large printed
> circuit board with the keyboard at the front and the IC's at the back.
> Operating system on 8K of rom, and space for 32K of ram. This was then
> cloned by a UK company, and called the UK101. It became very popular with
> Beeb staff, and Peter Leverick, Mike Colcutt and I decided to try and write
> a space program for it. We had great difficulties with the maths to keep a
> ship in orbit having got it there. We would bring a micro in to work and set
> it up in a tech area. We put a ship in orbit, and then went for the morning
> rehearsal. We returned at lunchtime to see if it had crashed into earth or
> spun off into space. Mike, our maths expert, would tweak the equations, and
> we would set it off for the afternoon session. It became clear that the
> limitations of graphics, speed, and BASIC programming were beyond out
> ambitions, but we all learned a lot about programming. I went on to
> developed a program in BASIC which calculated and printed out the whole
> crews time sheets. It ran to forty eight pages of closely typed text.

> RISC OS was a wonderful system and I have fond memories of it. Now, where
> is that Archimedes?

> Doug Puddifoot


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 2:02 PM
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Email

> I'd like to add my thanks to Bernie too. I would add that the other email
> groups I used in the past were likely run by Yahoo and free. They are
> about to discontinue this service. I'd guess this one isn't free.

> I use an older email prog than I'd guess any of you. Pluto on a RISC OS
> machine. Why? You can send me as many viruses etc as you want to - likely
> no one now makes one that would effect a OS this old and so little used.

> I also download all emails and archive them once a year. Text only.
> Obviously delete any spam etc before doing so. Although emails from groups
> such as this aren't included, as someone will likely archive then anyway.

> It does seem odd that having done a reply to a post from Doug that the
> reply addresses are David Newbit and the tech ops one. I've edited it to
> only tech ops.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12



From relong at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 17 08:52:59 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 14:52:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] In passing . . .
In-Reply-To: <DC0A4BFC-96EB-4BD2-8FC9-3878F6E8058B@me.com>
References: <C0929DA0-8617-4263-8182-E06D72209602@me.com>
	<F321F39F3C0340E8A1A2415D5B08B9AB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<f0d1ae3d-0b63-b28f-7fab-befc664a3d79@btinternet.com>
	<DC0A4BFC-96EB-4BD2-8FC9-3878F6E8058B@me.com>
Message-ID: <AAA48AAF-F99E-4CE2-8A07-9FC267DD5F02@btinternet.com>

Audience share is important when talking about a licence to receive TV , when it is a criminal offence not to pay it.
BBC share is 16 % when UTube viewing is taken into account.
Presenter salaries can be annoying, but are insignifigigent in comparison to perceived journalistic bias.
The Martin Bashir /Panorama affair is a case in point, that a graphic designer was obliged to forge bank statements is a very sad state of play for flagship BBC 1 current affairs programme.
The News of the World ceased publishing when people were appalled by its antics, yet Steve Hewlitt and then Head of News Tony Hall whitewashed Bashir and his dodgy tabloid tactics in order for a World scoop.
The beeb also took Bashir back as Religious Correspondent when he returned from the States under a cloud.
It is not possible to fund the BBC by subscription  via Freeview, and it would be a tragedy to throw the baby out with the bathwater and defund it , but decriminalisation might be a start.
Im not sure BBC appreciation is exceptional, many I know rely on streaming services for their enjoyment.
Reithian values hardly matter in 2020, he thought broadcasting 'a social menace of the first magnitude? in 1922, perhaps he was right.

> On 17 Nov 2020, at 12:18, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> A very good point , Hugh.  And it's always criticised in terms of 'audience share', with no attempt to compare 'audience appreciation'.  I can't imagine the BBC commissioning "When Ghosts Attack", for example.
> 
> It's worth having a read of these two links - here <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-54885985>, and here <https://inews.co.uk/news/media/bbc-channel-4-future-industry-insider-panel-viewers-excluded-755267>.
> 
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> alawrance1 at me.com <mailto:alawrance1 at me.com>
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 17 Nov 2020, at 12:01, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> With this website's non-political tenets in mind, it seems timely to quote a non-Beeb friend's observation of this morning:
>> ' Why do those who object to the BBC as a public service get so het-up over the salaries it pays in response to market forces?'
>> Or is that perhaps 'political'?
>> 
>> Hugh
>> 
>> 
>> On 17-Nov-20 10:17 AM, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:
>>> It may just be ?in passing? Garth but I think you make an important point. Not everything broadly emanating from either ?right? or ?left-leaning? sources is governed by those handles. There are of course issues which are often seen as political but in fact are more to do with an apolitical sense of right and wrong.
>>>  
>>> So, when Pat posted in this ?well left? vein, it was his expressed view re his own enthusiasm for capital punishment (identifying it as right wing) that saddened me most. As I?m sure we all recall, the issues that characterised the parliamentary debate over many years were not specifically politically polarised. I think it salutary to note how, since the abolition of the death sentence, there have been a number of people serving life sentences who subsequently proved to have been wrongly convicted. Whilst society has no way of undoing that, we are at least able to acknowledge the injustice and, however late in the day, give back to the unfortunate victims their freedom. Difficult to try to redress a wrong if the person had lost their life rather than their freedom.
>>>  
>>> The last thing I would wish to see between us all is differing viewpoints evolving into sniping. I?m trying to express what I say here in the most temperate and least aggressive way I can, but I hope it is ok for me to comment without acrimony.
>>>  
>>> Dave Newbitt.
>>>  
>>> From: Garth Tucker via Tech1 <>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 8:33 AM
>>> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <>
>>> Subject: [Tech1] In passing . . .
>>>  
>>> I merely note in passing that the ?well left? newspaper yesterday printed a half-page article by Dominic Grieve who in the recent past was the Conservative?s Attorney General. Garth
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Nov 17 09:40:58 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 15:40:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Well left
In-Reply-To: <58d0da4ce5davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <58d0da4ce5davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <A538D992-F6B4-46ED-A9F5-55996F9E80A7@me.com>

We stayed in a small hotel in Scotland which was truly excellent.  I often feel that the small touches make the real difference to how welcoming a hotel is and this place excelled with so many great details. Whichever way you look at it, it was worth a five star Trip Advisor review.

When we checked in, we were prompted by the proprietor to review them. The breakfast menu had a printed reminder that reviews are always appreciated and when we checked out, we were given a card telling us how to review them, together with another verbal reminder.

I did indeed write them a great review - a four star review, pointing out that it would have been five stars, but I knocked off a star because the owner pestered far too much about getting reviews.

Occasionally companies do take on board criticism and act on it.  When internet banking started appearing, it was very difficult to find banks which offered an online service for those of us using Macs in those days. The Nationwide announced that their new online service supported Macs, so I signed up and was mostly happy with how it worked.  When they asked for feedback, I offered some constructive criticism.  Much to my surprise, a week or so later I got an email saying that they had addressed the issues I raised and asked what I thought of the changes.  All my criticisms had indeed been sorted.

Alan Taylor


> On 17 Nov 2020, at 14:32, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?In article <5fb3d2e4.1c69fb81.6793f.1c7d at mx.google.com>,
>   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Oops! I apologise for inflicting my strong opinions. Nothing like
>> chucking a brick in the pond to see what the ripples reveal! It might be
>> worth a glance at a survey result (2017): https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/03/07/how-left-or-right-wing-are-uks-newspapers
> 
> 'YouGov' despite its official sounding name is just another market
> research firm using internet surveys.
> 
> Now I dunno about others, but when I get asked to provide data to a
> company for free so they can make money from it, if I do answer it
> (unlikely) I lie.
> 
> I'm fed up to the back teeth of companies like this wanting my services
> for free.  
> 
> I'm also fed up of near every company I buy from online wanting me to fill
> in a survey - heavily loaded to tell them they are wonderful.  
> 
> 
> 
>> Or for a bit of lightheartedness, a clip from ?Yes Minister?:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M
> 
>> It?s a poor quality upload, sadly. Pat
> 
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
>> From: Nick Rodger via Tech1
>> Sent: 16 November 2020 13:11
>> To: Garth Tucker
>> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Well left
> 
>> W
> 
> 
> 
>> -- 
>> Th
> 
> -- 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Nov 17 11:43:30 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 17:43:30 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Well left
In-Reply-To: <A538D992-F6B4-46ED-A9F5-55996F9E80A7@me.com>
References: <58d0da4ce5davesound@btinternet.com>
	<A538D992-F6B4-46ED-A9F5-55996F9E80A7@me.com>
Message-ID: <5fb40bc2.1c69fb81.44b6.ca02@mx.google.com>

A Thames TV job billeted us in a splendid family run hotel in Abersoch (Wales).
Before we unloaded the kit, the owner rushed out and invited us to drive round the back and use the door to his office for storage and charging batteries. He offered his darkroom (we were on film). When questioned about him knowing about film crews, he admitted to having had a Harlech crew in, couple of weeks earlier!
Over pre-dinner drinks at the bar, he and his wife were going through a card index of previous guests who had wished to re-book for the following year ? and were filtering them as to whether they would consider having them back!
The daughter of the family acted as waitress, and after we had perused the menu, would ask us: ?What did you like??
I interpreted that as what we might have chosen, was no longer available!
Altogether a lovely shoot.
Pat
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 17 November 2020 15:41
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Well left

W



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Nov 17 12:08:16 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 18:08:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Banking scam
Message-ID: <88317395-CDD6-4426-9714-CDFAFDC73F7D@icloud.com>

Just a heads up, the old banking scam is doing the rounds again. A text message saying your account has a payment coming out, contact them if it is not expected. So far so ordinary. Ignored it but got a follow up a cuple of hours later saying the account had been frozen, go to a website and fill in details to unlock it.  Be caeful out there.
? 
Graeme Wall




From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Nov 17 12:31:20 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 18:31:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Banking scam
In-Reply-To: <88317395-CDD6-4426-9714-CDFAFDC73F7D@icloud.com>
References: <88317395-CDD6-4426-9714-CDFAFDC73F7D@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <BAD0E6CE-60BE-4446-BD52-4725C9606FD7@me.com>

If such things amuse you, it?s worth having a look at the full header information on any of these scam emails. The way you do it depends on your email system.  On a Mac using Mail, there is an option in the View menu to View Headers.

You will see a load of stuff which makes little sense to a human, but should be able to pick out various nuggets of information.  I recently had the Post Office ?undeliverable parcel? email, insisting that I urgently need to make a payment or else the parcel gets returned to sender.

Closer inspection revealed that that particular Post Office actually sends its emails from a Hotmail address and payments go to PayPal account.   Similarly the scam about a problem with my TV licence also showed that the reminder was sent from Hotmail, with payment via PayPal. Some of these scams are sent from Russian or African email accounts, which does seem a tad unlikely for British institutions. 

You can also often see where documents were created.  Ages ago I got sent a suspicious email sent from a company which I frequently dealt  with at the time.  Closer inspection revealed that the document was created on an old version of Windows and sent from Belgium, while that company was a British all-Mac operation. It?s unclear how the sender made it look like it came from that company, but the company agreed that it wasn?t from them.

Alan Taylor



> On 17 Nov 2020, at 18:09, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Just a heads up, the old banking scam is doing the rounds again. A text message saying your account has a payment coming out, contact them if it is not expected. So far so ordinary. Ignored it but got a follow up a cuple of hours later saying the account had been frozen, go to a website and fill in details to unlock it.  Be caeful out there.
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From techtone at protonmail.com  Tue Nov 17 14:35:16 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 20:35:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Horsing around?
Message-ID: <r-8bIQg6kPWq0yFqcHaIYaDnXXaiqNjnpdvxXRJZxGj6gaLelF-JoDAnIQZCVwm8ZWz4QPl3SOu7ihxpYcXCSyS39tjSiOKbtjBufxYTx0o=@protonmail.com>

I've just had an email from my cousin in Canada who got it from a friend in Australia, although that's by the by. However, at some stage recently they seem to have got it into their heads that at 30% of Tesco's beef burgers are actually horse meat. This led to a plethora of one liners such as:

Anyone want a burger from Tesco? Yay or neigh?

Not entirely sure how Tesco is going to get over this hurdle.

Had some burgers from Tesco for supper last night. I still have a bit between my teeth.

A woman has been taken into hospital after eating horse meat burgers from Tesco. Her condition is listed as stable.

"I've just checked the Tesco burgers in my freezer AND THEY'RE OFF!"

Tesco is now forced to deny the presence of zebra in burgers, as shoppers confuse barcodes for serving suggestions.

I said to my spouse, "These Tesco burgers give me the trots."

"To beef or not to beef, that is equestrian."

A cow walks into a bar. Barman says, "Why the long face? Cow says "Illegal ingredients are coming over here stealing our jobs!"

I hear the smaller version of those Tesco burgers make great horse d'oeuvres.

These Tesco burger jokes are going on a bit. Talk about flogging a dead horse.

At first, I thought, "Oh great, I've been saddled with another email to forward, but something spurred me on."

TeaTeaFN - Tony
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Tue Nov 17 18:44:09 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 00:44:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Banking scam
In-Reply-To: <BAD0E6CE-60BE-4446-BD52-4725C9606FD7@me.com>
References: <88317395-CDD6-4426-9714-CDFAFDC73F7D@icloud.com>
	<BAD0E6CE-60BE-4446-BD52-4725C9606FD7@me.com>
Message-ID: <58d114846adavesound@btinternet.com>

In article <BAD0E6CE-60BE-4446-BD52-4725C9606FD7 at me.com>, Alan Taylor via
Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> If such things amuse you, it?s worth having a look at the full header
> information on any of these scam emails. The way you do it depends on
> your email system.  On a Mac using Mail, there is an option in the View
> menu to View Headers.

> You will see a load of stuff which makes little sense to a human, but
> should be able to pick out various nuggets of information.  I recently
> had the Post Office ?undeliverable parcel? email, insisting that I
> urgently need to make a payment or else the parcel gets returned to
> sender.

> Closer inspection revealed that that particular Post Office actually
> sends its emails from a Hotmail address and payments go to PayPal
> account.   Similarly the scam about a problem with my TV licence also
> showed that the reminder was sent from Hotmail, with payment via PayPal.
> Some of these scams are sent from Russian or African email accounts,
> which does seem a tad unlikely for British institutions. 

If you get an email purporting to come from your bank or anything similar.
do not click on a link in that to get you there. Use your own address book
to go there. If it is important there will be a warning or message waiting
there for you.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From waresound at msn.com  Wed Nov 18 02:12:59 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 08:12:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Banking scam
In-Reply-To: <58d114846adavesound@btinternet.com>
References: <88317395-CDD6-4426-9714-CDFAFDC73F7D@icloud.com>
	<BAD0E6CE-60BE-4446-BD52-4725C9606FD7@me.com>,
	<58d114846adavesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863CBC78845EACEED4900F4A7E10@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Same with eBay. There?s an email circulating that tells you you can make and receive eBay payments automatically direct to your bank account, avoiding the extra cut that Paypal charge you. Guess what, you have to accept by giving your bank account info!

In fact logging into my eBay account, it seems to be a genuine change, and about time too, but I would definitely only set up that option via your eBay account, not by clicking within the email. The email that I received comes from a long and dubious looking address.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 18 Nov 2020, at 00:48, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?In article <BAD0E6CE-60BE-4446-BD52-4725C9606FD7 at me.com>, Alan Taylor via
> Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> If such things amuse you, it's worth having a look at the full header
>> information on any of these scam emails. The way you do it depends on
>> your email system.  On a Mac using Mail, there is an option in the View
>> menu to View Headers.
> 
>> You will see a load of stuff which makes little sense to a human, but
>> should be able to pick out various nuggets of information.  I recently
>> had the Post Office ?undeliverable parcel' email, insisting that I
>> urgently need to make a payment or else the parcel gets returned to
>> sender.
> 
>> Closer inspection revealed that that particular Post Office actually
>> sends its emails from a Hotmail address and payments go to PayPal
>> account.   Similarly the scam about a problem with my TV licence also
>> showed that the reminder was sent from Hotmail, with payment via PayPal.
>> Some of these scams are sent from Russian or African email accounts,
>> which does seem a tad unlikely for British institutions. 
> 
> If you get an email purporting to come from your bank or anything similar.
> do not click on a link in that to get you there. Use your own address book
> to go there. If it is important there will be a warning or message waiting
> there for you.
> 
> -- 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From davesound at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 18 04:44:37 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 10:44:37 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Banking scam
In-Reply-To: <BAD0E6CE-60BE-4446-BD52-4725C9606FD7@me.com>
References: <88317395-CDD6-4426-9714-CDFAFDC73F7D@icloud.com>
	<BAD0E6CE-60BE-4446-BD52-4725C9606FD7@me.com>
Message-ID: <58d14b7cd7davesound@btinternet.com>

In article <BAD0E6CE-60BE-4446-BD52-4725C9606FD7 at me.com>,
   Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> If such things amuse you, it?s worth having a look at the full header
> information on any of these scam emails. The way you do it depends on
> your email system.  On a Mac using Mail, there is an option in the View
> menu to View Headers.

Not being well up with all the various email readers, my ancient one gives
you the choice to convert HTML to text. So you can see where a link
embedded in HTML is taking you. On a scam, you can be sure it's not to
your bank or whatever - and instantly obvious.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Wed Nov 18 06:06:11 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 12:06:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Banking scam
In-Reply-To: <58d14b7cd7davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <58d14b7cd7davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <6487CF4F-4210-4443-9378-CC4FE7C27E1F@icloud.com>

The interesting thing about this version of the scam was, that being a text message, rather than an email, they couldn?t spoof the web address, so had a link to a completely separate website, that could no doubt be used for harvesting details from any bank.

Graeme Wall

> On 18 Nov 2020, at 10:45, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?In article <BAD0E6CE-60BE-4446-BD52-4725C9606FD7 at me.com>,
>   Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> If such things amuse you, it?s worth having a look at the full header
>> information on any of these scam emails. The way you do it depends on
>> your email system.  On a Mac using Mail, there is an option in the View
>> menu to View Headers.
> 
> Not being well up with all the various email readers, my ancient one gives
> you the choice to convert HTML to text. So you can see where a link
> embedded in HTML is taking you. On a scam, you can be sure it's not to
> your bank or whatever - and instantly obvious.
> 
> -- 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Nov 18 06:31:41 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 12:31:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Banking scam
In-Reply-To: <58d14b7cd7davesound@btinternet.com>
References: <88317395-CDD6-4426-9714-CDFAFDC73F7D@icloud.com>
	<BAD0E6CE-60BE-4446-BD52-4725C9606FD7@me.com>
	<58d14b7cd7davesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5fb5142e.1c69fb81.90ac0.9f45@mx.google.com>

I receive the Surrey Police Neighbourhood Watch newsletters which contain useful advices regarding various current scams. It is advised to report them to ActionFraud, if you are targeted.
One latest warning was to do with scammers using Covid-19 to scare people into falling for fake messages. It?s worth a read. (it is genuine!!)

https://www.ourwatch.org.uk/news/neighbourhood-watch-response-covid-19/be-aware-covid-19-scams-and-crimes

Here?s the link to report:
www.actionfraud.police.uk

Keep aware, Keep safe
Best
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 18 November 2020 10:45
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Banking scam

I



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 18 06:55:35 2020
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 12:55:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Banking scam
In-Reply-To: <5fb5142e.1c69fb81.90ac0.9f45@mx.google.com>
References: <88317395-CDD6-4426-9714-CDFAFDC73F7D@icloud.com>
	<BAD0E6CE-60BE-4446-BD52-4725C9606FD7@me.com>
	<58d14b7cd7davesound@btinternet.com>
	<5fb5142e.1c69fb81.90ac0.9f45@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <B189D6D7-1802-420C-90F1-5B24C8EB07AE@btinternet.com>

Has anyone tried to call action fraud? It takes ages and the website is infuriating.

AB


> On 18 Nov 2020, at 12:31, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I receive the Surrey Police Neighbourhood Watch newsletters which contain useful advices regarding various current scams. It is advised to report them to ActionFraud, if you are targeted.
> One latest warning was to do with scammers using Covid-19 to scare people into falling for fake messages. It?s worth a read. (it is genuine!!)
>  
> https://www.ourwatch.org.uk/news/neighbourhood-watch-response-covid-19/be-aware-covid-19-scams-and-crimes <https://www.ourwatch.org.uk/news/neighbourhood-watch-response-covid-19/be-aware-covid-19-scams-and-crimes>
>  
> Here?s the link to report:
> www.actionfraud.police.uk <https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/>
>  
> Keep aware, Keep safe
> Best
> Pat
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
> From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: 18 November 2020 10:45
> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Banking scam
>  
> I
>  
> 
> 
>  <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>  <x-msg://2/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Wed Nov 18 07:26:58 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:26:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Banking scam
In-Reply-To: <6487CF4F-4210-4443-9378-CC4FE7C27E1F@icloud.com>
References: <6487CF4F-4210-4443-9378-CC4FE7C27E1F@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CCCF7CAF-AEB1-4CC6-8B33-B6E9ABF36496@icloud.com>

Not sure what happened here, sorry!

Graeme Wall

> On 18 Nov 2020, at 12:06, Graeme Wall <graeme.wall at icloud.com> wrote:
> 
> ?VGhlIGludGVyZXN0aW5nIHRoaW5nIGFib3V0IHRoaXMgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiB0aGUgc2NhbSB3YXMs
> IHRoYXQgYmVpbmcgYSB0ZXh0IG1lc3NhZ2UsIHJhdGhlciB0aGFuIGFuIGVtYWlsLCB0aGV5IGNv
> dWxkbuKAmXQgc3Bvb2YgdGhlIHdlYiBhZGRyZXNzLCBzbyBoYWQgYSBsaW5rIHRvIGEgY29tcGxl
> dGVseSBzZXBhcmF0ZSB3ZWJzaXRlLCB0aGF0IGNvdWxkIG5vIGRvdWJ0IGJlIHVzZWQgZm9yIGhh
> cnZlc3RpbmcgZGV0YWlscyBmcm9tIGFueSBiYW5rLgoKR3JhZW1lIFdhbGwKCj4gT24gMTggTm92
> IDIwMjAsIGF0IDEwOjQ1LCBEYXZlIFBsb3dtYW4gdmlhIFRlY2gxIDx0ZWNoMUB0ZWNoLW9wcy5j
> by51az4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gCj4g77u/SW4gYXJ0aWNsZSA8QkFEMEU2Q0UtNjBCRS00NDQ2LUJENTIt
> NDcyNUM5NjA2RkQ3QG1lLmNvbT4sCj4gICBBbGFuIFRheWxvciB2aWEgVGVjaDEgPHRlY2gxQHRl
> Y2gtb3BzLmNvLnVrPiB3cm90ZToKPj4gSWYgc3VjaCB0aGluZ3MgYW11c2UgeW91LCBpdOKAmHMg
> d29ydGggaGF2aW5nIGEgbG9vayBhdCB0aGUgZnVsbCBoZWFkZXIKPj4gaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gb24g
> YW55IG9mIHRoZXNlIHNjYW0gZW1haWxzLiBUaGUgd2F5IHlvdSBkbyBpdCBkZXBlbmRzIG9uCj4+
> IHlvdXIgZW1haWwgc3lzdGVtLiAgT24gYSBNYWMgdXNpbmcgTWFpbCwgdGhlcmUgaXMgYW4gb3B0
> aW9uIGluIHRoZSBWaWV3Cj4+IG1lbnUgdG8gVmlldyBIZWFkZXJzLgo+IAo+IE5vdCBiZWluZyB3
> ZWxsIHVwIHdpdGggYWxsIHRoZSB2YXJpb3VzIGVtYWlsIHJlYWRlcnMsIG15IGFuY2llbnQgb25l
> IGdpdmVzCj4geW91IHRoZSBjaG9pY2UgdG8gY29udmVydCBIVE1MIHRvIHRleHQuIFNvIHlvdSBj
> YW4gc2VlIHdoZXJlIGEgbGluawo+IGVtYmVkZGVkIGluIEhUTUwgaXMgdGFraW5nIHlvdS4gT24g
> YSBzY2FtLCB5b3UgY2FuIGJlIHN1cmUgaXQncyBub3QgdG8KPiB5b3VyIGJhbmsgb3Igd2hhdGV2
> ZXIgLSBhbmQgaW5zdGFudGx5IG9idmlvdXMuCj4gCj4gLS0gCj4gICAgRGF2ZSBQbG93bWFuICAg
> ICBkYXZlQGRhdmVzb3VuZC5jby51ayAgICAgTG9uZG9uIFNXIDEyCj4gCj4gCj4gLS0gCj4gVGVj
> aDEgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cj4gVGVjaDFAdGVjaC1vcHMuY28udWsKPiBodHRwOi8vdGVjaC1vcHMu
> Y28udWsvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby90ZWNoMV90ZWNoLW9wcy5jby51awoKLS0gClRlY2gxIG1h
> aWxpbmcgbGlzdApUZWNoMUB0ZWNoLW9wcy5jby51awpodHRwOi8vdGVjaC1vcHMuY28udWsvbWFp
> bG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby90ZWNoMV90ZWNoLW9wcy5jby51awo


From davesound at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 18 07:37:04 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 13:37:04 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Banking scam
In-Reply-To: <B189D6D7-1802-420C-90F1-5B24C8EB07AE@btinternet.com>
References: <88317395-CDD6-4426-9714-CDFAFDC73F7D@icloud.com>
	<BAD0E6CE-60BE-4446-BD52-4725C9606FD7@me.com>
	<58d14b7cd7davesound@btinternet.com>
	<5fb5142e.1c69fb81.90ac0.9f45@mx.google.com>
	<B189D6D7-1802-420C-90F1-5B24C8EB07AE@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <58d15b470ddavesound@btinternet.com>

I'd guess it is like all such things. Gives you something to do. Just
don't expect any results from doing it.


In article <B189D6D7-1802-420C-90F1-5B24C8EB07AE at btinternet.com>,
   Albert Barber <ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com> wrote:
> Has anyone tried to call action fraud? It takes ages and the website is infuriating.

> AB


> > On 18 Nov 2020, at 12:31, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> > I receive the Surrey Police Neighbourhood Watch newsletters which contain useful advices regarding various current scams. It is advised to report them to ActionFraud, if you are targeted.
> > One latest warning was to do with scammers using Covid-19 to scare people into falling for fake messages. It?s worth a read. (it is genuine!!)
> >  
> > https://www.ourwatch.org.uk/news/neighbourhood-watch-response-covid-19/be-aware-covid-19-scams-and-crimes <https://www.ourwatch.org.uk/news/neighbourhood-watch-response-covid-19/be-aware-covid-19-scams-and-crimes>
> >  
> > Here?s the link to report:
> > www.actionfraud.police.uk <https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/>
> >  
> > Keep aware, Keep safe
> > Best
> > Pat
> >  
> >  
> > Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
> >  
> > From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> > Sent: 18 November 2020 10:45
> > To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Banking scam
> >  
> > I
> >  
> > 
> > 
> >  <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>	
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> > www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
> >  <x-msg://2/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>-- 
> > Tech1 mailing list
> > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From relong at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 18 08:21:54 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 14:21:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Banking scam
In-Reply-To: <58d15b470ddavesound@btinternet.com>
References: <58d15b470ddavesound@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <3B281D2F-21F1-46C4-8BE6-3AC66A7EAAC0@btinternet.com>

I?ve contacted Action Fraud over Indentity theft, which is not illegal in the UK!
You can only connect via the website and eventually they issue a crime no.
It?s a tedious business but must be auctioned.
Whether fraud charges are ever pressed is a different matter.
It?s very common in the Insurance biz
But not enough for them to take seriously and repeat offences are commonplace.
Hundreds of thousands cars are uninsured and on the road fraudulently ,beware.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 18 Nov 2020, at 13:37, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I'd guess it is like all such things. Gives you something to do. Just
> don't expect any results from doing it.
> 
> 
> In article <B189D6D7-1802-420C-90F1-5B24C8EB07AE at btinternet.com>,
>   Albert Barber <ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>> Has anyone tried to call action fraud? It takes ages and the website is infuriating.
> 
>> AB
> 
> 
>>>> On 18 Nov 2020, at 12:31, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I receive the Surrey Police Neighbourhood Watch newsletters which contain useful advices regarding various current scams. It is advised to report them to ActionFraud, if you are targeted.
>>> One latest warning was to do with scammers using Covid-19 to scare people into falling for fake messages. It?s worth a read. (it is genuine!!)
>>> 
>>> https://www.ourwatch.org.uk/news/neighbourhood-watch-response-covid-19/be-aware-covid-19-scams-and-crimes <https://www.ourwatch.org.uk/news/neighbourhood-watch-response-covid-19/be-aware-covid-19-scams-and-crimes>
>>> 
>>> Here?s the link to report:
>>> www.actionfraud.police.uk <https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/>
>>> 
>>> Keep aware, Keep safe
>>> Best
>>> Pat
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>>> 
>>> From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> Sent: 18 November 2020 10:45
>>> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Banking scam
>>> 
>>> I
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>    
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>> <x-msg://2/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>-- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
> 
> -- 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From mibridge at mac.com  Wed Nov 18 16:18:08 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 22:18:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Banking scam
In-Reply-To: <3B281D2F-21F1-46C4-8BE6-3AC66A7EAAC0@btinternet.com>
References: <58d15b470ddavesound@btinternet.com>
	<3B281D2F-21F1-46C4-8BE6-3AC66A7EAAC0@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <4BEE3DFB-C5FC-4E59-84EC-E7D7F39F0B8C@mac.com>

I forward suspect e-mails to <report at phishing.gov.uk <mailto:report at phishing.gov.uk>>, or if it comes in the form of a text message, I simply copy the text and link and paste them into an e-mail. I have no way of knowing how effective this system is, but it makes me feel better and at least you get an automated reply to confirm that it has arrived in the right inbox.

Agreed that the Action Fraud website is tortuous ~ I gave up when trying to report suspect e-mails. 

We?re also getting an increasing number of calls from BT and Amazon scammers, with on the landline and the mobile. Jolly frustrating if you?ve rushed up the garden to answer a recorded message!

Mike G


> On 18 Nov 2020, at 14:21, Roger Long via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I?ve contacted Action Fraud over Indentity theft, which is not illegal in the UK!
> You can only connect via the website and eventually they issue a crime no.
> It?s a tedious business but must be auctioned.
> Whether fraud charges are ever pressed is a different matter.
> It?s very common in the Insurance biz
> But not enough for them to take seriously and repeat offences are commonplace.
> Hundreds of thousands cars are uninsured and on the road fraudulently ,beware.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 18 Nov 2020, at 13:37, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I'd guess it is like all such things. Gives you something to do. Just
>> don't expect any results from doing it.
>> 
>> 
>> In article <B189D6D7-1802-420C-90F1-5B24C8EB07AE at btinternet.com>,
>>  Albert Barber <ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> Has anyone tried to call action fraud? It takes ages and the website is infuriating.
>> 
>>> AB
>> 
>> 
>>>>> On 18 Nov 2020, at 12:31, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I receive the Surrey Police Neighbourhood Watch newsletters which contain useful advices regarding various current scams. It is advised to report them to ActionFraud, if you are targeted.
>>>> One latest warning was to do with scammers using Covid-19 to scare people into falling for fake messages. It?s worth a read. (it is genuine!!)
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.ourwatch.org.uk/news/neighbourhood-watch-response-covid-19/be-aware-covid-19-scams-and-crimes <https://www.ourwatch.org.uk/news/neighbourhood-watch-response-covid-19/be-aware-covid-19-scams-and-crimes>
>>>> 
>>>> Here?s the link to report:
>>>> www.actionfraud.police.uk <https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/>
>>>> 
>>>> Keep aware, Keep safe
>>>> Best
>>>> Pat
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>>>> 
>>>> From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> Sent: 18 November 2020 10:45
>>>> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Banking scam
>>>> 
>>>> I
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>    
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>> <x-msg://2/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>-- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>> 
>> -- 
>>   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Nov 19 03:43:37 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 09:43:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Funny story
Message-ID: <8f8633c9-2354-8801-3fd5-ff3da13025ec@btinternet.com>

Now, who does that remind me of? Cheers, Dave

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From waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov 19 04:41:56 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 10:41:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Funny story
In-Reply-To: <8f8633c9-2354-8801-3fd5-ff3da13025ec@btinternet.com>
References: <8f8633c9-2354-8801-3fd5-ff3da13025ec@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863F64553F618C1AF6B2DE7A7E00@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

That?s reminded me of a job I once did.....it was for Fuji International TV (who I used to call ?The Sarahs? because more of them were called Sarah than not), and we were in Harrods in the run-up to Christmas. Our presenter, (you guessed it - Sarah), was interviewing the rather well known then-owner of Harrods in the jewellery department. One of her questions was ?Can you please show us the most expensive piece of jewellery in the store?? He turned to the salesperson, who opened a high security display case and handed him a rather gross looking ring with a humongous diamond on it, saying this would be it. Why anyone would want to pay many hundreds of thousands for such a thing I can?t imagine, but hey.... Anyway, he took it from her, and as he made as if to put it on his own finger, it slipped from his hand and rolled away across the floor into the rubber-necking crowd, and was nowhere to be seen. He didn?t seem particularly purturbed about it, and luckily someone did find it, and handed it back to the salesperson.
Not very interesting I grant you, but it just reminded me of a job I once did.
Cheers,
Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 19 Nov 2020, at 09:43, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?Now, who does that remind me of? Cheers, Dave

[cid:51B8D117-23BF-4200-B4CE-45814D3FB4E5]--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Thu Nov 19 06:56:49 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (crew13)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 12:56:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Whatever Happened to White Balance
Message-ID: <0A074ADD-5521-4957-AE86-995AB3327A96@vincent68.plus.com>

With so many contributions coming from people sitting in front of a computer it is annoying that there is no way to get a decent white balance.

Remember the days of line up charts and some poor lass (never a bloke!) having to sit in front of it.

On OB?s the standard white balance was a BBC polystyrene cup. Many a time I had to explain to members of the public why we all seemed to like taking pictures of it.

John V

From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Thu Nov 19 07:15:38 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 13:15:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Whatever Happened to White Balance
In-Reply-To: <0A074ADD-5521-4957-AE86-995AB3327A96@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <0A074ADD-5521-4957-AE86-995AB3327A96@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <85DD51A9-B6C8-4A2A-B170-1F258432E3C9@icloud.com>

I know one OB engineere who white balanced on clouds! Handy round race courses.
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 19 Nov 2020, at 12:56, crew13 via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> With so many contributions coming from people sitting in front of a computer it is annoying that there is no way to get a decent white balance.
> 
> Remember the days of line up charts and some poor lass (never a bloke!) having to sit in front of it.
> 
> On OB?s the standard white balance was a BBC polystyrene cup. Many a time I had to explain to members of the public why we all seemed to like taking pictures of it.
> 
> John V
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Nov 19 07:31:29 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 13:31:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Whatever Happened to White Balance
In-Reply-To: <0A074ADD-5521-4957-AE86-995AB3327A96@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <0A074ADD-5521-4957-AE86-995AB3327A96@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <FA7D97B9-4CA4-4441-9752-F9AED494544F@me.com>

When ENG was in its infancy, OB sound dept formed a committee to design a custom sound mixer for that role as there was nothing commercially available at the time which was suitable.  Fortunately that particular camel never saw the light of day. 

However one feature which I was adamant about was that an ENG mixer should have a white front so that there was always something to do a white balance on.  

Alan Taylor


> On 19 Nov 2020, at 12:57, crew13 via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?With so many contributions coming from people sitting in front of a computer it is annoying that there is no way to get a decent white balance.
> 
> Remember the days of line up charts and some poor lass (never a bloke!) having to sit in front of it.
> 
> On OB?s the standard white balance was a BBC polystyrene cup. Many a time I had to explain to members of the public why we all seemed to like taking pictures of it.
> 
> John V
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alawrance1 at me.com  Thu Nov 19 07:37:05 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 13:37:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Whatever Happened to White Balance
Message-ID: <FAD931ED-351D-4C57-86FC-82BA1C46F8D8@me.com>

I knew a Studio Racks Supervisor? who matched to Network whenever it was available, but that was in monochrome days.

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 19 Nov 2020, at 13:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?When ENG was in its infancy, OB sound dept formed a committee to design a custom sound mixer for that role as there was nothing commercially available at the time which was suitable.  Fortunately that particular camel never saw the light of day. 
> 
> However one feature which I was adamant about was that an ENG mixer should have a white front so that there was always something to do a white balance on.  
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
>> On 19 Nov 2020, at 12:57, crew13 via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> ?With so many contributions coming from people sitting in front of a computer it is annoying that there is no way to get a decent white balance.
>> Remember the days of line up charts and some poor lass (never a bloke!) having to sit in front of it.
>> On OB?s the standard white balance was a BBC polystyrene cup. Many a time I had to explain to members of the public why we all seemed to like taking pictures of it.
>> John V
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Nov 19 07:46:12 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 13:46:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Whatever Happened to White Balance
In-Reply-To: <0A074ADD-5521-4957-AE86-995AB3327A96@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <0A074ADD-5521-4957-AE86-995AB3327A96@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <5fb67724.1c69fb81.b9d5a.cd80@mx.google.com>

OK, I?ve posted this story before! (Nick). But some may not have seen it.
Location: Oslo, Norway.
Set-up: ?B? roll establishing shot overlooking the city.
Having traipsed up a hill, the light was going, and getting redder, so cameraman needed to white balance. I normally kept a card in the pocket of the SQN mixer bag, but it had gone walkabout.
After a bit of head scratching, as it was too late to get back down to the car, our delightful NY lady director announced that she had white panties on, and dropped her jeans for the camera to focus on her rear!

I recall that in TVC, when colour started, a pretty make-up girl was seated in front of all the cameras for line up and balancing.
Later she was replaced with a hi-res colour photo.

The VT tea cup was photographed in every foreign location, and appeared in one of the Christmas tapes of the time.
?Try a taste of VT Tea!? was a skit on a tea commercial, I think.

Life was fun in those days ? a sound colleague said to me recently, that it?s all so serious on set now, no-one lightens up at all.

Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: crew13 via Tech1
Sent: 19 November 2020 12:57
To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Whatever Happened to White Balance

W



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From davesound at btinternet.com  Thu Nov 19 07:58:18 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 13:58:18 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Whatever Happened to White Balance
In-Reply-To: <0A074ADD-5521-4957-AE86-995AB3327A96@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <0A074ADD-5521-4957-AE86-995AB3327A96@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <58d1e10fdadavesound@btinternet.com>

In article <0A074ADD-5521-4957-AE86-995AB3327A96 at vincent68.plus.com>,
   crew13 via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> With so many contributions coming from people sitting in front of a
> computer it is annoying that there is no way to get a decent white
> balance.

I've got quite a few assorted webcams here, both built in to laptops etc
and separate. None seems to do a really good auto white balance. But you
can usually find software to allow you to do it manually. 

It doesn't help with the average domestic lighting, though. LEDs tend to
be all over the place. 

I do a few zoom meetings and try and make sure mine isn't the worst.
Although given what Zoom does to the sound, difficult to be sure how it
mangles the pictures.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From techtone at protonmail.com  Thu Nov 19 14:25:51 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 20:25:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Whatever Happened to White Balance
In-Reply-To: <0A074ADD-5521-4957-AE86-995AB3327A96@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <0A074ADD-5521-4957-AE86-995AB3327A96@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <9t262TjMMooS3zxzY_GV20RPZVmGBgAOFrftf_M4fit9X1JiRWa2zZKsobZiL-qpfK1d_E_UL5ioUUmhtwvZ1CcIploBErkOAVKRBM01WlM=@protonmail.com>

I always ensured I had a few sheets of blank A4 paper in a plastic folder in the run bag/ditty bag/swag bag, whatever the current name for the bag of bits I carried with me. They could even be used for writing useful information on!

However, I had to resort to all sorts of other methods when the bag was not to hand, and although I never had the pleasure, my favourite - knickers!

TeaTeaFN - Tony


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.


From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 11:07:20 2020
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 17:07:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Topics 4: The lockdown issue
Message-ID: <d4c8f078-5910-32cf-2816-871eb1e410ad@gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

The latest collection of your tales, tittle-tattle and technical 
triumphs is now available for you to look at:? remember - YOU WROTE IT!!

http://tech-ops.co.uk/next/2020/11/topics-4-another-lockdown-collection/

There is a bumper crop of bits and pieces to interest you all.....

Contents include:

1950s and 1960s Adventure Series
1968 BBC TV Production Planning Training Film
A game of KIM
An Historic Outside Broadcast
BBC TV Car Park Tickets
Bits of Our History
Camera Tower
Cameramen at War
Cater for the Crew
Colin Reid ? An Appreciation
Completely Shocking?
Continu?.ity?
Covid 19 and TV
David Attenborough
Director?s Viewfinder
Ditty Box and Dollies
Duties Day-by-Day
First TV OB from a Theatre
Flight of the Concordes (?.and other planes)
Goonhilly
Headphones
How We Got Started In The Entertainment Industry
Julie Felix Show
Noise Loudness and Americans
Meccano et al
Memories of Dame Vera Lynn
More About Lime Grove
More about Mother
More Mole Stories
Multi-Coloured Swap Shop
Nicknames
Not Everyone Likes ?Strictly?
?Our World? ? yet more about this programme!
Pushing the Wrong Buttons
Radio Microphones
Rolling Stones, Beatles and Jimi Hendrix at the BBC
Ron Peverall at 90
Some Things Never Change ?
Sounds Effective!
Sports Unit Electronic - and freelancing
Steam-Powered Tech Ops Part 2
An Interesting Link to the Design of Television Centre
Early BBC TV OBs
The Old Man of Hoy
Watership Down
Where Did The BBC Place Job Ads?
Which is Real?? Location Shoot or Studio mock up?
Why MCRs are called Scanners ? part 2
Work in OBs - and Freelance
Zooming Around

It's mostly Tech Ops stuff - no supermarket milk here , although there 
are some excursions away from? focus handles. zoom controls, faders, 
switches, mics and lenses.

Enjoy!


-- 
Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502




From barry-wilkinson at sky.com  Fri Nov 20 11:50:10 2020
From: barry-wilkinson at sky.com (B Wilkinson)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 17:50:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Heat pump installation
References: <27620319-F87E-4775-A808-5309E20AE72A.ref@sky.com>
Message-ID: <27620319-F87E-4775-A808-5309E20AE72A@sky.com>

Our heat pump installation , fingers crossed, will be installed next week to replace our storage heaters. The installers are just waiting for the MCS certificate to guarantee the ?5000 grant before they can start.
Any questions welcomed if I can help.
Barry Wilkinson

Sent from my iPad


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 20 12:51:52 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 18:51:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Nice music
Message-ID: <0d4888db-832d-8819-b491-aa8fd8900fca@btinternet.com>

My daughter listens to Spotify via her Roberts DVB radio and they will 
play whatever genre of music you choose. On her Christmas list was a 
composer I have never heard of, Ola Gjeilo (Yay-lo), a Norwegian who 
must have cropped up on Spotify. I bought her the CD and then I d/l the 
same from alt.binaries.sounds.flac for me, as it was so pleasant and 
relaxing! I have attached a down converted .flac file to .mp3 to give 
you an idea of Ola's style. Enjoy! Cheers, Dave

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 15:34:54 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 21:34:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Our World
Message-ID: <bfacb49b-f43d-db31-cd9d-885bee59e626@gmail.com>

I seem to remember much discussion a while back about who was at Abbey 
Road and what cameras. I just saw this on Facebook -



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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 20 17:43:37 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2020 23:43:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] On-line shopping
Message-ID: <fdd91418-0fb0-d327-0133-ef747c77d3ff@btinternet.com>

My wife, like all other wives, is ordering all of her Christmas presents 
on-line. Some, ordered months ago, haven't been delivered, and some 
arrived very quickly. Hermes got a very bad review in 'Watchdog' on the 
Beeb for just dumping parcels and running! They seem to have tightened 
up their act! We had a delivery today and this is from the e-mail they 
sent afterwards! No arguing with that! Cheers, Dave

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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov 21 02:03:36 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 08:03:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] On-line shopping
In-Reply-To: <fdd91418-0fb0-d327-0133-ef747c77d3ff@btinternet.com>
References: <fdd91418-0fb0-d327-0133-ef747c77d3ff@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <8521AADE-1A56-4A0B-87BE-E85F07E3DE6C@me.com>

Here in Banbury, Amazon is a dirty word.  Amazon now have a warehouse a little outside the town and the entire road gets clogged up with queues of white vans trying to get into and out of the depot.  I do mean it literally, nothing but a queue of white vans, bumper to bumper  between their depot and the first major roundabout, about half a mile.  Previously we only had queues like that for a few hours on one day per year after the Cropredy festival, and it was mostly a queue of VW camper vans.  It?s now happening every day.

It?s one of the main roads into town, so that quantity of vehicles are a problem in their own right, but the drivers are very aggressive, which is quite inappropriate for the more genteel manner of driving usually encountered around here. The drivers have time slots at the depot, so they park up in all the nearby lay-bys, streets and supermarket car parks, sitting with their engines idling, waiting for their time slot.  When their time approaches, they have difficulty getting into the depot because of the gridlock caused by all the other white vans. Janet now has to use a different route when driving to work for her early shift at the hospital. What used to be a consistent 15 minute easy commute suddenly became a 40-50 minute struggle.

In June we announced to our family that we won?t be doing the big Christmas thing this year as at that time we could see no way that the government strategy for dealing with Covid could bring it under control by Christmas.  We were dismayed to see that things have turned out to be even worse than our most pessimistic expectations.

Alan Taylor



On 20 Nov 2020, at 23:43, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?My wife, like all other wives, is ordering all of her Christmas presents on-line. Some, ordered months ago, haven't been delivered, and some arrived very quickly. Hermes got a very bad review in 'Watchdog' on the Beeb for just dumping parcels and running! They seem to have tightened up their act! We had a delivery today and this is from the e-mail they sent afterwards! No arguing with that! Cheers, Dave
> 
> <Hermes delivery!.jpg>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Nov 21 04:35:03 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 10:35:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] On-line shopping
In-Reply-To: <fdd91418-0fb0-d327-0133-ef747c77d3ff@btinternet.com>
References: <fdd91418-0fb0-d327-0133-ef747c77d3ff@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <58d2d6200bdavesound@btinternet.com>

In article <fdd91418-0fb0-d327-0133-ef747c77d3ff at btinternet.com>,
   dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> My wife, like all other wives, is ordering all of her Christmas presents 
> on-line. Some, ordered months ago, haven't been delivered, and some 
> arrived very quickly. Hermes got a very bad review in 'Watchdog' on the 
> Beeb for just dumping parcels and running! They seem to have tightened 
> up their act! We had a delivery today and this is from the e-mail they 
> sent afterwards! No arguing with that! Cheers, Dave

Depending where you look, every delivery service has complaints against
it. Not surprising given the number of transactions they make. No firm
ever can be 100% perfect.

I like Hermes as their local collection place is very convenient. Better
by far than the PO, or other carriers.

How good a particular delivery service is to a great extent determined by
the delivery driver. Same as your postman.

I missed a signed for small parcel yesterday due to being out in the
morning. Delivered by my postman. Got an email asking me to arrange a
second delivery. But my postman delivered it at about 5pm that day. Very
impressive.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Sat Nov 21 05:16:10 2020
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 11:16:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd:  On-line shopping
References: <DDF211D1-7E09-4ED2-B90C-B2E94BE5218C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <06B93148-05C1-4334-98BC-DB7FF1F180FF@btinternet.com>


> 
> I remember whilst visiting the new Salford media disaster I was waiting at reception, which was next to the Coffee shop independently owned and nothing to do with the BBC, when a courier came in with a parcel. The commissionaire said that he couldn't accept it unless someone came down to collect it, and it had to go via despatch round the corner. The courier said it was urgent. Still, he had to have someone to collect it then.

> After a short while someone appeared on the other side of the barrier and said can I have the parcel. The commissionaire said that it had to go via despatch. Can?t I just hand it over said the courier. No said the Commissionaire. After some silence. The commissionaire  said, "Look if you say you want it and the courier says its for you you can". The parcel was exchanged.

> I said to the commissionaire that was odd. He said that he was told by his manager that all parcels had to go via despatch but he had had a similar case when he decided that he should go by his instinct and allow the parcel in to the building via reception. He added that he?d been in this business for over 29 years and had never seen so much bureaucracy.

> So as we knew in the past things get lost, not always, but people are often better than the system. Does anyone remember the episode of Red Dwarf that was lost when a change over from large 1" tape boxes were replaced by a big box with two cassettes in it and they had to re-record the episode? It was found months later in the bottom of the lift shaft.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 10:35, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> In article <fdd91418-0fb0-d327-0133-ef747c77d3ff at btinternet.com>,
>>  dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> My wife, like all other wives, is ordering all of her Christmas presents 
>>> on-line. Some, ordered months ago, haven't been delivered, and some 
>>> arrived very quickly. Hermes got a very bad review in 'Watchdog' on the 
>>> Beeb for just dumping parcels and running! They seem to have tightened 
>>> up their act! We had a delivery today and this is from the e-mail they 
>>> sent afterwards! No arguing with that! Cheers, Dave
>> 
>> Depending where you look, every delivery service has complaints against
>> it. Not surprising given the number of transactions they make. No firm
>> ever can be 100% perfect.
>> 
>> I like Hermes as their local collection place is very convenient. Better
>> by far than the PO, or other carriers.
>> 
>> How good a particular delivery service is to a great extent determined by
>> the delivery driver. Same as your postman.
>> 
>> I missed a signed for small parcel yesterday due to being out in the
>> morning. Delivered by my postman. Got an email asking me to arrange a
>> second delivery. But my postman delivered it at about 5pm that day. Very
>> impressive.
>> 
>> -- 
>>   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 



From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Nov 21 06:08:39 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:08:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Heat pump installation
In-Reply-To: <27620319-F87E-4775-A808-5309E20AE72A@sky.com>
References: <27620319-F87E-4775-A808-5309E20AE72A.ref@sky.com>
	<27620319-F87E-4775-A808-5309E20AE72A@sky.com>
Message-ID: <df3dcafe-0813-9b75-7a28-051442605843@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Is that an air source version? I'm guessing that a ground source one 
would have given you more of a grant, unless things have changed in 
recent years.

And how are you distributing the heat?

Chris Woolf


On 20/11/2020 17:50, B Wilkinson via Tech1 wrote:
> Our heat pump installation , fingers crossed, will be installed next week to replace our storage heaters. The installers are just waiting for the MCS certificate to guarantee the ?5000 grant before they can start.
> Any questions welcomed if I can help.
> Barry Wilkinson
>
> Sent from my iPad
>

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov 21 06:25:19 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:25:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd:  On-line shopping
In-Reply-To: <06B93148-05C1-4334-98BC-DB7FF1F180FF@btinternet.com>
References: <06B93148-05C1-4334-98BC-DB7FF1F180FF@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <F9B0A681-471C-4012-B8D6-EFABD057882F@me.com>

After I left the Beeb, I did a single camera job where we were to interview a load of people in succession on a very tight schedule.  One of them was somebody in an office in TV centre.

We arrived in plenty of time with all our gear on a trolly so that we could rapidly get in, but we hadn?t reckoned with reception / commissionaires. We provided the contact number and name, but were told there was no reply and were expected to wait.  After multiple promptings, they tried again and said there still was no reply.  I asked them to dial the numbers one either side of that extension number, as that would probably be somebody in the same office, who would know we were expected.  They refused to do that, saying that people can?t just turn up and guess contact numbers in the hope of getting through.

We were on the point of abandoning the shoot and doing the next one when somebody from the office was passing by and asked if we were their film crew. 

I?ve done shoots in Buckingham Palace, ultra high-security military establishments, with Prime Ministers and presidents of multiple countries, and within companies developing commercially sensitive products, but never had to deal with such obstructive security as at TV centre.  It wasn?t just once, it happened any number of times and we always warned production companies to allow plenty of time in the schedule because of the jobsworths. 

Alan Taylor


> On 21 Nov 2020, at 11:16, Albert Barber via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
>> 
>> I remember whilst visiting the new Salford media disaster I was waiting at reception, which was next to the Coffee shop independently owned and nothing to do with the BBC, when a courier came in with a parcel. The commissionaire said that he couldn't accept it unless someone came down to collect it, and it had to go via despatch round the corner. The courier said it was urgent. Still, he had to have someone to collect it then.
> 
>> After a short while someone appeared on the other side of the barrier and said can I have the parcel. The commissionaire said that it had to go via despatch. Can?t I just hand it over said the courier. No said the Commissionaire. After some silence. The commissionaire  said, "Look if you say you want it and the courier says its for you you can". The parcel was exchanged.
> 
>> I said to the commissionaire that was odd. He said that he was told by his manager that all parcels had to go via despatch but he had had a similar case when he decided that he should go by his instinct and allow the parcel in to the building via reception. He added that he?d been in this business for over 29 years and had never seen so much bureaucracy.
> 
>> So as we knew in the past things get lost, not always, but people are often better than the system. Does anyone remember the episode of Red Dwarf that was lost when a change over from large 1" tape boxes were replaced by a big box with two cassettes in it and they had to re-record the episode? It was found months later in the bottom of the lift shaft.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 10:35, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> In article <fdd91418-0fb0-d327-0133-ef747c77d3ff at btinternet.com>,
>>> dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> My wife, like all other wives, is ordering all of her Christmas presents 
>>>> on-line. Some, ordered months ago, haven't been delivered, and some 
>>>> arrived very quickly. Hermes got a very bad review in 'Watchdog' on the 
>>>> Beeb for just dumping parcels and running! They seem to have tightened 
>>>> up their act! We had a delivery today and this is from the e-mail they 
>>>> sent afterwards! No arguing with that! Cheers, Dave
>>> 
>>> Depending where you look, every delivery service has complaints against
>>> it. Not surprising given the number of transactions they make. No firm
>>> ever can be 100% perfect.
>>> 
>>> I like Hermes as their local collection place is very convenient. Better
>>> by far than the PO, or other carriers.
>>> 
>>> How good a particular delivery service is to a great extent determined by
>>> the delivery driver. Same as your postman.
>>> 
>>> I missed a signed for small parcel yesterday due to being out in the
>>> morning. Delivered by my postman. Got an email asking me to arrange a
>>> second delivery. But my postman delivered it at about 5pm that day. Very
>>> impressive.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>>  Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Nov 21 06:40:09 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 12:40:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd:  On-line shopping
In-Reply-To: <06B93148-05C1-4334-98BC-DB7FF1F180FF@btinternet.com>
References: <DDF211D1-7E09-4ED2-B90C-B2E94BE5218C@btinternet.com>
	<06B93148-05C1-4334-98BC-DB7FF1F180FF@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <58d2e1938cdavesound@btinternet.com>

In article <06B93148-05C1-4334-98BC-DB7FF1F180FF at btinternet.com>,
   Albert Barber via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>  I said to the commissionaire that was odd. He said that he was told by
>  his manager that all parcels had to go via despatch but he had had a
>  similar case when he decided that he should go by his instinct and
>  allow the parcel in to the building via reception. He added that he?d
>  been in this business for over 29 years and had never seen so much
>  bureaucracy.

Bit of a dilemma. Despatch may have scanning equipment to check the
contents ain't a bomb? In a sensitive area like a media centre.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From david.beer at talktalk.net  Sat Nov 21 08:04:28 2020
From: david.beer at talktalk.net (David Beer)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 14:04:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Commissionaires/Doormen
In-Reply-To: <F9B0A681-471C-4012-B8D6-EFABD057882F@me.com>
References: <06B93148-05C1-4334-98BC-DB7FF1F180FF@btinternet.com>
	<F9B0A681-471C-4012-B8D6-EFABD057882F@me.com>
Message-ID: <67ac13dc-4c5c-98e8-2755-aa28e93360c2@talktalk.net>

The best commissionaire story I heard, which I really hope isn't 
apocryphal, concerned Sebastian Coe at Lords cricket ground.

The doorman wouldn't let him in at the members' entrance when Seb Coe 
wanted to get to the Test Match special commentary position for a 
lunchtime interview with Johnners. 'Sorry sir, this entrance is for MCC 
members only you'll have to go round the corner to the public entrance'. 
'Don't you know who I am, Sebastian Coe the Olympic runner'. Doorman 
'Then you'll get round there all the faster won't you!'

Dave

On 21/11/2020 12:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> After I left the Beeb, I did a single camera job where we were to interview a load of people in succession on a very tight schedule.  One of them was somebody in an office in TV centre.
>
> We arrived in plenty of time with all our gear on a trolly so that we could rapidly get in, but we hadn?t reckoned with reception / commissionaires. We provided the contact number and name, but were told there was no reply and were expected to wait.  After multiple promptings, they tried again and said there still was no reply.  I asked them to dial the numbers one either side of that extension number, as that would probably be somebody in the same office, who would know we were expected.  They refused to do that, saying that people can?t just turn up and guess contact numbers in the hope of getting through.
>
> We were on the point of abandoning the shoot and doing the next one when somebody from the office was passing by and asked if we were their film crew.
>
> I?ve done shoots in Buckingham Palace, ultra high-security military establishments, with Prime Ministers and presidents of multiple countries, and within companies developing commercially sensitive products, but never had to deal with such obstructive security as at TV centre.  It wasn?t just once, it happened any number of times and we always warned production companies to allow plenty of time in the schedule because of the jobsworths.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 11:16, Albert Barber via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>> I remember whilst visiting the new Salford media disaster I was waiting at reception, which was next to the Coffee shop independently owned and nothing to do with the BBC, when a courier came in with a parcel. The commissionaire said that he couldn't accept it unless someone came down to collect it, and it had to go via despatch round the corner. The courier said it was urgent. Still, he had to have someone to collect it then.
>>> After a short while someone appeared on the other side of the barrier and said can I have the parcel. The commissionaire said that it had to go via despatch. Can?t I just hand it over said the courier. No said the Commissionaire. After some silence. The commissionaire  said, "Look if you say you want it and the courier says its for you you can". The parcel was exchanged.
>>> I said to the commissionaire that was odd. He said that he was told by his manager that all parcels had to go via despatch but he had had a similar case when he decided that he should go by his instinct and allow the parcel in to the building via reception. He added that he?d been in this business for over 29 years and had never seen so much bureaucracy.
>>> So as we knew in the past things get lost, not always, but people are often better than the system. Does anyone remember the episode of Red Dwarf that was lost when a change over from large 1" tape boxes were replaced by a big box with two cassettes in it and they had to re-record the episode? It was found months later in the bottom of the lift shaft.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 10:35, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In article <fdd91418-0fb0-d327-0133-ef747c77d3ff at btinternet.com>,
>>>> dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> My wife, like all other wives, is ordering all of her Christmas presents
>>>>> on-line. Some, ordered months ago, haven't been delivered, and some
>>>>> arrived very quickly. Hermes got a very bad review in 'Watchdog' on the
>>>>> Beeb for just dumping parcels and running! They seem to have tightened
>>>>> up their act! We had a delivery today and this is from the e-mail they
>>>>> sent afterwards! No arguing with that! Cheers, Dave
>>>> Depending where you look, every delivery service has complaints against
>>>> it. Not surprising given the number of transactions they make. No firm
>>>> ever can be 100% perfect.
>>>>
>>>> I like Hermes as their local collection place is very convenient. Better
>>>> by far than the PO, or other carriers.
>>>>
>>>> How good a particular delivery service is to a great extent determined by
>>>> the delivery driver. Same as your postman.
>>>>
>>>> I missed a signed for small parcel yesterday due to being out in the
>>>> morning. Delivered by my postman. Got an email asking me to arrange a
>>>> second delivery. But my postman delivered it at about 5pm that day. Very
>>>> impressive.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov 21 09:56:08 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 15:56:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Commissionaires/Doormen
In-Reply-To: <67ac13dc-4c5c-98e8-2755-aa28e93360c2@talktalk.net>
References: <67ac13dc-4c5c-98e8-2755-aa28e93360c2@talktalk.net>
Message-ID: <37917B82-2457-4C2A-AA02-F78477C577DB@me.com>

I did witness a similar exchange during the Burleigh Horse Trials.  We had a presentation studio built three or four metres above ground on scaffolding, it afforded the most perfect view of the event and people would find any excuse to climb the stairs and watch for a while.

The floor manager was trying to stop people doing that, partly because folks stomping about on the structure made it impossible for the cameras to use long lenses to follow distant riders. The best excuse for being able to prevent people coming up the stairs was the safe loading certificate, which rated the structure as being suitable for no more than twelve people.

The FM spotted a delegation of important looking people heading for the steps and swiftly blocked their ascent.  One of them identified himself as Lord Burleigh and expected to continue. The FM replied by saying that of course he knew who he was, but he was such a VIP that he couldn?t be permitted to put himself at risk by climbing onto a structure  which was already at its maximum safe limit. There was no way the the BBC insurance could cover the liability if anything went wrong.

I later asked the FM how much of what he said was true. He said that he didn?t know who the Lord was until he identified himself, had no idea what the insurance arrangements might be and there weren?t even ten people on the tower at that point anyway.  It was just a tactful way of telling him to bugger off without causing offence. 

Alan Taylor

> On 21 Nov 2020, at 14:04, David Beer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?The best commissionaire story I heard, which I really hope isn't apocryphal, concerned Sebastian Coe at Lords cricket ground.
> 
> The doorman wouldn't let him in at the members' entrance when Seb Coe wanted to get to the Test Match special commentary position for a lunchtime interview with Johnners. 'Sorry sir, this entrance is for MCC members only you'll have to go round the corner to the public entrance'. 'Don't you know who I am, Sebastian Coe the Olympic runner'. Doorman 'Then you'll get round there all the faster won't you!'
> 
> Dave
> 
>> On 21/11/2020 12:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> After I left the Beeb, I did a single camera job where we were to interview a load of people in succession on a very tight schedule.  One of them was somebody in an office in TV centre.
>> 
>> We arrived in plenty of time with all our gear on a trolly so that we could rapidly get in, but we hadn?t reckoned with reception / commissionaires. We provided the contact number and name, but were told there was no reply and were expected to wait.  After multiple promptings, they tried again and said there still was no reply.  I asked them to dial the numbers one either side of that extension number, as that would probably be somebody in the same office, who would know we were expected.  They refused to do that, saying that people can?t just turn up and guess contact numbers in the hope of getting through.
>> 
>> We were on the point of abandoning the shoot and doing the next one when somebody from the office was passing by and asked if we were their film crew.
>> 
>> I?ve done shoots in Buckingham Palace, ultra high-security military establishments, with Prime Ministers and presidents of multiple countries, and within companies developing commercially sensitive products, but never had to deal with such obstructive security as at TV centre.  It wasn?t just once, it happened any number of times and we always warned production companies to allow plenty of time in the schedule because of the jobsworths.
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 11:16, Albert Barber via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>>> I remember whilst visiting the new Salford media disaster I was waiting at reception, which was next to the Coffee shop independently owned and nothing to do with the BBC, when a courier came in with a parcel. The commissionaire said that he couldn't accept it unless someone came down to collect it, and it had to go via despatch round the corner. The courier said it was urgent. Still, he had to have someone to collect it then.
>>>> After a short while someone appeared on the other side of the barrier and said can I have the parcel. The commissionaire said that it had to go via despatch. Can?t I just hand it over said the courier. No said the Commissionaire. After some silence. The commissionaire  said, "Look if you say you want it and the courier says its for you you can". The parcel was exchanged.
>>>> I said to the commissionaire that was odd. He said that he was told by his manager that all parcels had to go via despatch but he had had a similar case when he decided that he should go by his instinct and allow the parcel in to the building via reception. He added that he?d been in this business for over 29 years and had never seen so much bureaucracy.
>>>> So as we knew in the past things get lost, not always, but people are often better than the system. Does anyone remember the episode of Red Dwarf that was lost when a change over from large 1" tape boxes were replaced by a big box with two cassettes in it and they had to re-record the episode? It was found months later in the bottom of the lift shaft.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 10:35, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In article <fdd91418-0fb0-d327-0133-ef747c77d3ff at btinternet.com>,
>>>>> dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> My wife, like all other wives, is ordering all of her Christmas presents
>>>>>> on-line. Some, ordered months ago, haven't been delivered, and some
>>>>>> arrived very quickly. Hermes got a very bad review in 'Watchdog' on the
>>>>>> Beeb for just dumping parcels and running! They seem to have tightened
>>>>>> up their act! We had a delivery today and this is from the e-mail they
>>>>>> sent afterwards! No arguing with that! Cheers, Dave
>>>>> Depending where you look, every delivery service has complaints against
>>>>> it. Not surprising given the number of transactions they make. No firm
>>>>> ever can be 100% perfect.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I like Hermes as their local collection place is very convenient. Better
>>>>> by far than the PO, or other carriers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> How good a particular delivery service is to a great extent determined by
>>>>> the delivery driver. Same as your postman.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I missed a signed for small parcel yesterday due to being out in the
>>>>> morning. Delivered by my postman. Got an email asking me to arrange a
>>>>> second delivery. But my postman delivered it at about 5pm that day. Very
>>>>> impressive.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>>  Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From alawrance1 at me.com  Sat Nov 21 11:56:14 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 17:56:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Commissionaires/Doormen
In-Reply-To: <67ac13dc-4c5c-98e8-2755-aa28e93360c2@talktalk.net>
References: <67ac13dc-4c5c-98e8-2755-aa28e93360c2@talktalk.net>
Message-ID: <8D2369A4-84C3-4AB6-8B4B-745289E00979@me.com>

Sebastian Coe - 'Lord of the Rings'.  

I've always thought that was funny.

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 21 Nov 2020, at 14:05, David Beer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?The best commissionaire story I heard, which I really hope isn't apocryphal, concerned Sebastian Coe at Lords cricket ground.
> 
> The doorman wouldn't let him in at the members' entrance when Seb Coe wanted to get to the Test Match special commentary position for a lunchtime interview with Johnners. 'Sorry sir, this entrance is for MCC members only you'll have to go round the corner to the public entrance'. 'Don't you know who I am, Sebastian Coe the Olympic runner'. Doorman 'Then you'll get round there all the faster won't you!'
> 
> Dave
> 
>> On 21/11/2020 12:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> After I left the Beeb, I did a single camera job where we were to interview a load of people in succession on a very tight schedule.  One of them was somebody in an office in TV centre.
>> 
>> We arrived in plenty of time with all our gear on a trolly so that we could rapidly get in, but we hadn?t reckoned with reception / commissionaires. We provided the contact number and name, but were told there was no reply and were expected to wait.  After multiple promptings, they tried again and said there still was no reply.  I asked them to dial the numbers one either side of that extension number, as that would probably be somebody in the same office, who would know we were expected.  They refused to do that, saying that people can?t just turn up and guess contact numbers in the hope of getting through.
>> 
>> We were on the point of abandoning the shoot and doing the next one when somebody from the office was passing by and asked if we were their film crew.
>> 
>> I?ve done shoots in Buckingham Palace, ultra high-security military establishments, with Prime Ministers and presidents of multiple countries, and within companies developing commercially sensitive products, but never had to deal with such obstructive security as at TV centre.  It wasn?t just once, it happened any number of times and we always warned production companies to allow plenty of time in the schedule because of the jobsworths.
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 11:16, Albert Barber via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>>> I remember whilst visiting the new Salford media disaster I was waiting at reception, which was next to the Coffee shop independently owned and nothing to do with the BBC, when a courier came in with a parcel. The commissionaire said that he couldn't accept it unless someone came down to collect it, and it had to go via despatch round the corner. The courier said it was urgent. Still, he had to have someone to collect it then.
>>>> After a short while someone appeared on the other side of the barrier and said can I have the parcel. The commissionaire said that it had to go via despatch. Can?t I just hand it over said the courier. No said the Commissionaire. After some silence. The commissionaire  said, "Look if you say you want it and the courier says its for you you can". The parcel was exchanged.
>>>> I said to the commissionaire that was odd. He said that he was told by his manager that all parcels had to go via despatch but he had had a similar case when he decided that he should go by his instinct and allow the parcel in to the building via reception. He added that he?d been in this business for over 29 years and had never seen so much bureaucracy.
>>>> So as we knew in the past things get lost, not always, but people are often better than the system. Does anyone remember the episode of Red Dwarf that was lost when a change over from large 1" tape boxes were replaced by a big box with two cassettes in it and they had to re-record the episode? It was found months later in the bottom of the lift shaft.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 10:35, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In article <fdd91418-0fb0-d327-0133-ef747c77d3ff at btinternet.com>,
>>>>> dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> My wife, like all other wives, is ordering all of her Christmas presents
>>>>>> on-line. Some, ordered months ago, haven't been delivered, and some
>>>>>> arrived very quickly. Hermes got a very bad review in 'Watchdog' on the
>>>>>> Beeb for just dumping parcels and running! They seem to have tightened
>>>>>> up their act! We had a delivery today and this is from the e-mail they
>>>>>> sent afterwards! No arguing with that! Cheers, Dave
>>>>> Depending where you look, every delivery service has complaints against
>>>>> it. Not surprising given the number of transactions they make. No firm
>>>>> ever can be 100% perfect.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I like Hermes as their local collection place is very convenient. Better
>>>>> by far than the PO, or other carriers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> How good a particular delivery service is to a great extent determined by
>>>>> the delivery driver. Same as your postman.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I missed a signed for small parcel yesterday due to being out in the
>>>>> morning. Delivered by my postman. Got an email asking me to arrange a
>>>>> second delivery. But my postman delivered it at about 5pm that day. Very
>>>>> impressive.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>>  Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sat Nov 21 13:37:04 2020
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 19:37:04 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC motion graphics website
Message-ID: <D47CBA953CB649309E78F27AD8F2A198@Gigabyte>

Just opened by Ravensbourne College  https://www.ravensbourne.ac.uk/bbc-motion-graphics-archive

Lots of memories to look at.

Information gleaned by the must visit blog page from the Diamond geezer blog for today November 21st at https://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/

Links to all this via his website but don?t show up on my copy/paste version



Mike
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From doug at puddifoot.me  Sat Nov 21 14:24:26 2020
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 20:24:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC motion graphics website
Message-ID: <8jlmw4mave6d8j55pu985akj.1605989672814@email.android.com>

Great find. The first one I came to was the original Doctor Who. I worked on an experimental session at Lime Grove when that was created. It was a normal camera-monitor video howl round, but camera scans were reversed horizontally to get the symmetry. Then the caption was superimposed and also added to the monitor feed, but faded from the howl round as the zoom continued. At the same session sound created the Dalek  voice using, I think, a ring modulator.

Doug

On 21 November 2020, at 19:37, Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

Just opened by Ravensbourne College? https://www.ravensbourne.ac.uk/bbc-motion-graphics-archive

?

Lots of memories to look at.

?

Information gleaned by the must visit blog page from the Diamond geezer blog for today November 21st at https://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/

?

Links to all this via his website but don?t show up on my copy/paste version

?

?

?

Mike
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From david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk  Sat Nov 21 14:44:57 2020
From: david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk (David Taylor)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 20:44:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Our World
In-Reply-To: <bfacb49b-f43d-db31-cd9d-885bee59e626@gmail.com>
References: <bfacb49b-f43d-db31-cd9d-885bee59e626@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKrdDqvE2X3xdqpeeXz35KdPSnNu4ym81hAjV79qufnJH-qtQg@mail.gmail.com>

Bernard,
Following our 'private' discussion on the above...I thought I'd include the
whole of the Tech Ops email. I'm sorry I failed to hit the correct 'reply
all' button before.
Firstly the photo you show above is by Leslie Bryce, taken on the Saturday
afternoon rehearsals and that's Dave Gautier's camera on the Mole Crane. It
has only  'fixed lenses' in the turret I see, even though Derek
Burrell-Davis had requested all except the 'control room camera to be
fitted with V5 zooms.
I now think it most probably stayed with fixed lenses, although I had
thought it 'zoomed in' at the end of it's 'tracks' each time. Perhaps a
cameraman could review my composite video of the All You Need Is Love
sequence and 'advise me'...I'm only a soundman after all!

The other thought is that I rejected the idea that a minature Marconi V321
'pipe camera' was in fact employed at all. The Director had requested one
and in peering again at the video I think I've spotted it's use at 4.52 in
the timeline. A small camera is in the background of the shot and it looks
like the little V321 to me. I also think the operator is wearing cans!
Any engineers or cameramen know anything about that strange early ( it's
1967!) hand-held Vidicon camera?...It had no viewfinder!

Once again, my post about 'All You Need Is Love' is at:
http://postfade.co.uk/television-sound/1967-our-world-the-all-you-need-is-love-o-b-at-abbey-road-with-the-beatles/

And the video I compiled from the black and white and colourised sections
is towards the end of my *rather too* detailed post!

David Taylor

On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 at 21:35, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <
tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I seem to remember much discussion a while back about who was at Abbey
> Road and what cameras. I just saw this on Facebook -
>
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov 21 15:25:19 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 21:25:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Our World
In-Reply-To: <CAKrdDqvE2X3xdqpeeXz35KdPSnNu4ym81hAjV79qufnJH-qtQg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKrdDqvE2X3xdqpeeXz35KdPSnNu4ym81hAjV79qufnJH-qtQg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06BF42AE-C41F-4396-8B22-314F7B08C307@me.com>

I know that Kendal Avenue did have at least one Marconi drainpipe camera.  When I joined in 1968, it was used as a general purpose fixed camera which could be mounted and simply cut to whenever it was needed.  I don?t ever recall it being fitted or used with any viewfinder other than a standard portable monitor for checking framing and focus.

The only time I can remember it being used on a show I was working on was in 1970 when it was used as a caption camera on a show which was otherwise in colour.  I can?t remember why it was being used because units in those days had a large caption scanner rather like an oversized tea chest which travelled on the camera van. The proper caption scanner had a built- in vidicon camera, lighting and a mechanism to allow 12x9 captions to be changed in shot.

Alan Taylor




> On 21 Nov 2020, at 20:45, David Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Bernard,
> Following our 'private' discussion on the above...I thought I'd include the whole of the Tech Ops email. I'm sorry I failed to hit the correct 'reply all' button before.
> Firstly the photo you show above is by Leslie Bryce, taken on the Saturday afternoon rehearsals and that's Dave Gautier's camera on the Mole Crane. It has only  'fixed lenses' in the turret I see, even though Derek Burrell-Davis had requested all except the 'control room camera to be fitted with V5 zooms.
> I now think it most probably stayed with fixed lenses, although I had thought it 'zoomed in' at the end of it's 'tracks' each time. Perhaps a cameraman could review my composite video of the All You Need Is Love sequence and 'advise me'...I'm only a soundman after all!
> 
> The other thought is that I rejected the idea that a minature Marconi V321 'pipe camera' was in fact employed at all. The Director had requested one and in peering again at the video I think I've spotted it's use at 4.52 in the timeline. A small camera is in the background of the shot and it looks like the little V321 to me. I also think the operator is wearing cans!
> Any engineers or cameramen know anything about that strange early ( it's 1967!) hand-held Vidicon camera?...It had no viewfinder!
> 
> Once again, my post about 'All You Need Is Love' is at: 
> http://postfade.co.uk/television-sound/1967-our-world-the-all-you-need-is-love-o-b-at-abbey-road-with-the-beatles/
> 
> And the video I compiled from the black and white and colourised sections is towards the end of my rather too detailed post!
> 
> David Taylor
> 
>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 at 21:35, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> I seem to remember much discussion a while back about who was at Abbey Road and what cameras. I just saw this on Facebook - 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <hibjmmiaohlnocga.png>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From waresound at msn.com  Sat Nov 21 16:28:39 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 22:28:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Our World (Vidicon drainpipe)
In-Reply-To: <06BF42AE-C41F-4396-8B22-314F7B08C307@me.com>
References: <06BF42AE-C41F-4396-8B22-314F7B08C307@me.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863D559F5EB918EF763EF4CA7FE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I don?t remember the Marconi drainpipe Vidicon camera, but I?d be surprised if it was able to be synchronised to station (or whatever) syncs. The reason I say that is because around that time I had looked fairly thoroughly into Vidicon cameras just for the fun of it, and actually built one. The tube was an ex-Pres ?A? reject scrounged from Valve Maintenance on the 4th floor, which you could do if you could show that you had a yoke for it, and by chance, Elektor magazine (first published in 1960) had an advert for a vidicon tube yoke. The rest I had to design for myself.  I already had a suitable Dallmeyer ?C? mount cine lens. My moment of huge pride was while on a Sound attachment to Pres A, an always jovial engineer, whose name I wish I could remember, routed it into the Continuity A mixer one afternoon with it set it up in front of the rotating World globe. I was dead chuffed, not just because its picture was up on air, but that the whole of BBC1 was synced to it!
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 21 Nov 2020, at 21:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
I know that Kendal Avenue did have at least one Marconi drainpipe camera.  When I joined in 1968, it was used as a general purpose fixed camera which could be mounted and simply cut to whenever it was needed.  I don?t ever recall it being fitted or used with any viewfinder other than a standard portable monitor for checking framing and focus.

The only time I can remember it being used on a show I was working on was in 1970 when it was used as a caption camera on a show which was otherwise in colour.  I can?t remember why it was being used because units in those days had a large caption scanner rather like an oversized tea chest which travelled on the camera van. The proper caption scanner had a built- in vidicon camera, lighting and a mechanism to allow 12x9 captions to be changed in shot.

Alan Taylor




On 21 Nov 2020, at 20:45, David Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Bernard,
Following our 'private' discussion on the above...I thought I'd include the whole of the Tech Ops email. I'm sorry I failed to hit the correct 'reply all' button before.
Firstly the photo you show above is by Leslie Bryce, taken on the Saturday afternoon rehearsals and that's Dave Gautier's camera on the Mole Crane. It has only  'fixed lenses' in the turret I see, even though Derek Burrell-Davis had requested all except the 'control room camera to be fitted with V5 zooms.
I now think it most probably stayed with fixed lenses, although I had thought it 'zoomed in' at the end of it's 'tracks' each time. Perhaps a cameraman could review my composite video of the All You Need Is Love sequence and 'advise me'...I'm only a soundman after all!

The other thought is that I rejected the idea that a minature Marconi V321 'pipe camera' was in fact employed at all. The Director had requested one and in peering again at the video I think I've spotted it's use at 4.52 in the timeline. A small camera is in the background of the shot and it looks like the little V321 to me. I also think the operator is wearing cans!
Any engineers or cameramen know anything about that strange early ( it's 1967!) hand-held Vidicon camera?...It had no viewfinder!

Once again, my post about 'All You Need Is Love' is at:
http://postfade.co.uk/television-sound/1967-our-world-the-all-you-need-is-love-o-b-at-abbey-road-with-the-beatles/

And the video I compiled from the black and white and colourised sections is towards the end of my rather too detailed post!

David Taylor

On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 at 21:35, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
I seem to remember much discussion a while back about who was at Abbey Road and what cameras. I just saw this on Facebook -



<hibjmmiaohlnocga.png>
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov 21 16:37:28 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2020 22:37:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Our World (Vidicon drainpipe)
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863D559F5EB918EF763EF4CA7FE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VE1P189MB0863D559F5EB918EF763EF4CA7FE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <77E98AE0-7D1D-43AC-9C50-635EDFCCB9EE@me.com>

If anybody is still in touch with any BBC Tel OB vision engineers from that era, they might be able to explain.

I can remember the drainpipe camera kicking about in Vision Test Room for a long time and often being messed about with, so presumably a lot of engineers must have worked on it at some time.

Alan Taylor


> On 21 Nov 2020, at 22:29, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? I don?t remember the Marconi drainpipe Vidicon camera, but I?d be surprised if it was able to be synchronised to station (or whatever) syncs. The reason I say that is because around that time I had looked fairly thoroughly into Vidicon cameras just for the fun of it, and actually built one. The tube was an ex-Pres ?A? reject scrounged from Valve Maintenance on the 4th floor, which you could do if you could show that you had a yoke for it, and by chance, Elektor magazine (first published in 1960) had an advert for a vidicon tube yoke. The rest I had to design for myself.  I already had a suitable Dallmeyer ?C? mount cine lens. My moment of huge pride was while on a Sound attachment to Pres A, an always jovial engineer, whose name I wish I could remember, routed it into the Continuity A mixer one afternoon with it set it up in front of the rotating World globe. I was dead chuffed, not just because its picture was up on air, but that the whole of BBC1 was synced to it! 
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 21:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> I know that Kendal Avenue did have at least one Marconi drainpipe camera.  When I joined in 1968, it was used as a general purpose fixed camera which could be mounted and simply cut to whenever it was needed.  I don?t ever recall it being fitted or used with any viewfinder other than a standard portable monitor for checking framing and focus.
>> 
>> The only time I can remember it being used on a show I was working on was in 1970 when it was used as a caption camera on a show which was otherwise in colour.  I can?t remember why it was being used because units in those days had a large caption scanner rather like an oversized tea chest which travelled on the camera van. The proper caption scanner had a built- in vidicon camera, lighting and a mechanism to allow 12x9 captions to be changed in shot.
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 20:45, David Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> Bernard,
>>> Following our 'private' discussion on the above...I thought I'd include the whole of the Tech Ops email. I'm sorry I failed to hit the correct 'reply all' button before.
>>> Firstly the photo you show above is by Leslie Bryce, taken on the Saturday afternoon rehearsals and that's Dave Gautier's camera on the Mole Crane. It has only  'fixed lenses' in the turret I see, even though Derek Burrell-Davis had requested all except the 'control room camera to be fitted with V5 zooms.
>>> I now think it most probably stayed with fixed lenses, although I had thought it 'zoomed in' at the end of it's 'tracks' each time. Perhaps a cameraman could review my composite video of the All You Need Is Love sequence and 'advise me'...I'm only a soundman after all!
>>> 
>>> The other thought is that I rejected the idea that a minature Marconi V321 'pipe camera' was in fact employed at all. The Director had requested one and in peering again at the video I think I've spotted it's use at 4.52 in the timeline. A small camera is in the background of the shot and it looks like the little V321 to me. I also think the operator is wearing cans!
>>> Any engineers or cameramen know anything about that strange early ( it's 1967!) hand-held Vidicon camera?...It had no viewfinder!
>>> 
>>> Once again, my post about 'All You Need Is Love' is at: 
>>> http://postfade.co.uk/television-sound/1967-our-world-the-all-you-need-is-love-o-b-at-abbey-road-with-the-beatles/
>>> 
>>> And the video I compiled from the black and white and colourised sections is towards the end of my rather too detailed post!
>>> 
>>> David Taylor
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 at 21:35, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> I seem to remember much discussion a while back about who was at Abbey Road and what cameras. I just saw this on Facebook - 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> <hibjmmiaohlnocga.png>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sun Nov 22 12:26:17 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 18:26:17 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Our World (Vidicon drainpipe)
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863D559F5EB918EF763EF4CA7FE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <06BF42AE-C41F-4396-8B22-314F7B08C307@me.com>
	<VE1P189MB0863D559F5EB918EF763EF4CA7FE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <7723d262-7cfb-0379-ee9f-dd4870bd284b@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Indeed, Nick,

The Marconi 321 drainpipe camera was either crystal or mains locked - 
nothing else.

The true broadcast cameras of that era all ran off 'drives' - line, 
field, mixed syncs, blanking etc. The drainpipe counted as "industrial" 
and so looked after its own sync.

Chris


On 21/11/2020 22:28, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> I don?t remember the Marconi drainpipe Vidicon camera, but I?d be 
> surprised if it was able to be synchronised to station (or whatever) 
> syncs. The reason I say that is because around that time I had looked 
> fairly thoroughly into Vidicon cameras just for the fun of it, and 
> actually built one. The tube was an ex-Pres ?A? reject scrounged from 
> Valve Maintenance on the 4th floor, which you could do if you could 
> show that you had a yoke for it, and by chance, Elektor magazine 
> (first published in 1960) had an advert for a vidicon tube yoke. The 
> rest I had to design for myself. ?I already had a suitable Dallmeyer 
> ?C? mount cine lens. My moment of huge pride was while on a Sound 
> attachment to Pres A, an always jovial engineer, whose name I wish I 
> could remember, routed it into the Continuity A mixer one afternoon 
> with it set it up in front of the rotating World globe. I was dead 
> chuffed, not just because its picture was up on air, but that the 
> whole of BBC1 was synced to it!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 21:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> I know that Kendal Avenue did have at least one Marconi drainpipe 
>> camera. ?When I joined in 1968, it was used as a general purpose 
>> fixed camera which could be mounted and simply cut to whenever it was 
>> needed. ?I don?t ever recall it being fitted or used with any 
>> viewfinder other than a standard portable monitor for checking 
>> framing and focus.
>>
>> The only time I can remember it being used on a show I was working on 
>> was in 1970 when it was used as a caption camera on a show which was 
>> otherwise in colour. ?I can?t remember why it was being used because 
>> units in those days had a large caption scanner rather like an 
>> oversized tea chest which travelled on the camera van. The proper 
>> caption scanner had a built- in vidicon camera, lighting and a 
>> mechanism to allow 12x9 captions to be changed in shot.
>>
>> Alan Taylor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 20:45, David Taylor via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> Bernard,
>>> Following our 'private' discussion on the above...I thought I'd 
>>> include the whole of the Tech Ops email. I'm sorry I failed to hit 
>>> the correct 'reply all' button before.
>>> Firstly the?photo you show above is by Leslie Bryce, taken on the 
>>> Saturday afternoon?rehearsals and that's Dave Gautier's camera?on 
>>> the Mole Crane. It has only? 'fixed lenses' in the turret I see, 
>>> even though Derek Burrell-Davis had requested all except the 
>>> 'control room camera to be fitted with V5 zooms.
>>> I now think it most probably stayed with fixed lenses, although I 
>>> had thought it 'zoomed in' at the end of it's?'tracks'?each time. 
>>> Perhaps a cameraman could review my composite video of the All You 
>>> Need Is Love sequence and 'advise me'...I'm only a soundman after all!
>>>
>>> The other thought is that I rejected the idea that a minature 
>>> Marconi V321 'pipe camera' was in fact employed at all. The Director 
>>> had requested one and in peering again at the video I think I've 
>>> spotted it's use at 4.52 in the timeline. A small camera is in the 
>>> background of the shot and it looks like the little V321 to me. I 
>>> also think the operator is wearing cans!
>>> Any engineers or cameramen?know anything?about that strange?early ( 
>>> it's 1967!) hand-held Vidicon camera?...It had no viewfinder!
>>>
>>> Once again, my post about 'All You Need Is Love' is at:
>>> http://postfade.co.uk/television-sound/1967-our-world-the-all-you-need-is-love-o-b-at-abbey-road-with-the-beatles/ 
>>> <http://postfade.co.uk/television-sound/1967-our-world-the-all-you-need-is-love-o-b-at-abbey-road-with-the-beatles/>
>>>
>>> And the video I compiled from the black and white and colourised 
>>> sections is towards the end of my /rather too/ detailed post!
>>>
>>> David Taylor
>>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 at 21:35, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     I seem to remember much discussion a while back about who was at
>>>     Abbey Road and what cameras. I just saw this on Facebook -
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     <hibjmmiaohlnocga.png>
>>>     -- 
>>>     Tech1 mailing list
>>>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>     <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk  Sun Nov 22 13:53:52 2020
From: david at davidtaylorsound.co.uk (David Taylor)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 19:53:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Our World (Vidicon drainpipe)
In-Reply-To: <77E98AE0-7D1D-43AC-9C50-635EDFCCB9EE@me.com>
References: <VE1P189MB0863D559F5EB918EF763EF4CA7FE0@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<77E98AE0-7D1D-43AC-9C50-635EDFCCB9EE@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAKrdDqvCwC_87SUFmVPzH9HX6mCc4Eh=owhAVU5bH3qUreoy_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the information that the little Vidicon 'drain-pipe' camera was
in later use.

At the time of the Abbey Road OB Burrell-Davis's Programme requirements
sheet asked for a *"Marconi hand-held camera, on line and on cable.
(Requested through Norman Taylor on 11th May 67)".*
The reply came back via Norman Taylor from the Asst. to Superintendent
Engineer, Studios and OB's concerning* 'the Marconi V321 Vidicon
hand-held' * that *"We are, at present, awaiting a reply from Marconi as to
whether this equipment will be available, but in the meantime you should
discuss the use of this camera with the Engineering Manager concerned as
there may well be staffing and lighting problems from its use".* Two days
later the memo had a hand written note attached that said  *"Hugh* (the EM
doing the lighting was Hugh Cartwright) *sees no great problems".*

I thought I would have been able to tell, from the 'wobbly shots' if a
hand-held was being used during 'All You Need Is Love' and had assumed it
wasn't put to use, but I do now think that it might be the hand-held camera
seen passing in the back of that shot (4.52ish in the All You Need Is Love
video I posted) that I mentioned in the earlier post.
What with using a Mole Crane on an OB and possibly this early use of a
small camera, Burrell-Davis was being quite daring I guess.

Small cameras began to appear later of course and at LWT we were using
little LDK13 cameras occasionally a few years later on, as I know the BBC
were, but the Marconi V321 didn't have a proper viewfinder and must have
relied on a small external video monitor to focus etc. and I don't know
what the phrase* 'on line and on cable'* that D B-D used might mean.
Perhaps the CCU was displaced out of the scanner?

Dave T
www.postfade.co.uk
*'About Broadcast and Recorded Sound'*


On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 at 22:37, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> If anybody is still in touch with any BBC Tel OB vision engineers from
> that era, they might be able to explain.
>
> I can remember the drainpipe camera kicking about in Vision Test Room for
> a long time and often being messed about with, so presumably a lot of
> engineers must have worked on it at some time.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
> On 21 Nov 2020, at 22:29, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ? I don?t remember the Marconi drainpipe Vidicon camera, but I?d be
> surprised if it was able to be synchronised to station (or whatever) syncs.
> The reason I say that is because around that time I had looked fairly
> thoroughly into Vidicon cameras just for the fun of it, and actually built
> one. The tube was an ex-Pres ?A? reject scrounged from Valve Maintenance on
> the 4th floor, which you could do if you could show that you had a yoke for
> it, and by chance, Elektor magazine (first published in 1960) had an advert
> for a vidicon tube yoke. The rest I had to design for myself.  I already
> had a suitable Dallmeyer ?C? mount cine lens. My moment of huge pride was
> while on a Sound attachment to Pres A, an always jovial engineer, whose
> name I wish I could remember, routed it into the Continuity A mixer one
> afternoon with it set it up in front of the rotating World globe. I was
> dead chuffed, not just because its picture was up on air, but that the
> whole of BBC1 was synced to it!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
> On 21 Nov 2020, at 21:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> I know that Kendal Avenue did have at least one Marconi drainpipe camera.
> When I joined in 1968, it was used as a general purpose fixed camera which
> could be mounted and simply cut to whenever it was needed.  I don?t ever
> recall it being fitted or used with any viewfinder other than a standard
> portable monitor for checking framing and focus.
>
> The only time I can remember it being used on a show I was working on was
> in 1970 when it was used as a caption camera on a show which was otherwise
> in colour.  I can?t remember why it was being used because units in those
> days had a large caption scanner rather like an oversized tea chest which
> travelled on the camera van. The proper caption scanner had a built- in
> vidicon camera, lighting and a mechanism to allow 12x9 captions to be
> changed in shot.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
>
> On 21 Nov 2020, at 20:45, David Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> Bernard,
> Following our 'private' discussion on the above...I thought I'd include
> the whole of the Tech Ops email. I'm sorry I failed to hit the correct
> 'reply all' button before.
> Firstly the photo you show above is by Leslie Bryce, taken on the Saturday
> afternoon rehearsals and that's Dave Gautier's camera on the Mole Crane. It
> has only  'fixed lenses' in the turret I see, even though Derek
> Burrell-Davis had requested all except the 'control room camera to be
> fitted with V5 zooms.
> I now think it most probably stayed with fixed lenses, although I had
> thought it 'zoomed in' at the end of it's 'tracks' each time. Perhaps a
> cameraman could review my composite video of the All You Need Is Love
> sequence and 'advise me'...I'm only a soundman after all!
>
> The other thought is that I rejected the idea that a minature Marconi V321
> 'pipe camera' was in fact employed at all. The Director had requested one
> and in peering again at the video I think I've spotted it's use at 4.52 in
> the timeline. A small camera is in the background of the shot and it looks
> like the little V321 to me. I also think the operator is wearing cans!
> Any engineers or cameramen know anything about that strange early ( it's
> 1967!) hand-held Vidicon camera?...It had no viewfinder!
>
> Once again, my post about 'All You Need Is Love' is at:
>
> http://postfade.co.uk/television-sound/1967-our-world-the-all-you-need-is-love-o-b-at-abbey-road-with-the-beatles/
>
> And the video I compiled from the black and white and colourised sections
> is towards the end of my *rather too* detailed post!
>
> David Taylor
>
> On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 at 21:35, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I seem to remember much discussion a while back about who was at Abbey
>> Road and what cameras. I just saw this on Facebook -
>>
>>
>>
>> <hibjmmiaohlnocga.png>
>> --
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>>
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>
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>
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>
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From techtone at protonmail.com  Sun Nov 22 14:56:09 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 20:56:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Petrol life
Message-ID: <HotQd33kFVuIVRd0pERI-DaC25E1pE5WtheJWlCgzX9TtxWXErpHvutoBFxVu2pXgDPSfGzo0DZiaogQMJCotTts481wCnM1w2SSVVk-IsY=@protonmail.com>

I had no idea that petrol had a short life if left around your garden shed for a few months in a plastic canister (over a year in this case). Fortunately one of my neighbours knew all about this, but the upshot was a complete clean out and blow through a carburettor of my petrol generator, which I was going to run up in case we have any power cuts this winter (after a year's idling). We'd just had a power cut this week, so that prompted the exercise, talk about frustrating, couldn't work out why the damn thing wouldn't start - petrol yes - oil, yes - spark, yes - choke, yes.........well expletives undeleted.

So, just in case I'm not the only one who didn't know this - you do now!

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sun Nov 22 15:21:08 2020
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 21:21:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Our World (Vidicon drainpipe)
In-Reply-To: <CAKrdDqvCwC_87SUFmVPzH9HX6mCc4Eh=owhAVU5bH3qUreoy_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKrdDqvCwC_87SUFmVPzH9HX6mCc4Eh=owhAVU5bH3qUreoy_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8B759BF1-FA6B-46AC-87D5-8FDBFD1239C6@zero51.force9.co.uk>

Which leads to the tale of when the whole network came to be effectively super locked (was that the right term?) to the little green EMI vidicon in studio E on Grandstand that just did odd captions. Job done, before ?Off Air?   Switched off....

Peter Fox

On 22 Nov 2020, at 19:54, David Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Thanks for the information that the little Vidicon 'drain-pipe' camera was in later use. 

At the time of the Abbey Road OB Burrell-Davis's Programme requirements sheet asked for a "Marconi hand-held camera, on line and on cable. (Requested through Norman Taylor on 11th May 67)".
The reply came back via Norman Taylor from the Asst. to Superintendent Engineer, Studios and OB's concerning 'the Marconi V321 Vidicon hand-held'  that "We are, at present, awaiting a reply from Marconi as to whether this equipment will be available, but in the meantime you should discuss the use of this camera with the Engineering Manager concerned as there may well be staffing and lighting problems from its use". Two days later the memo had a hand written note attached that said  "Hugh (the EM doing the lighting was Hugh Cartwright) sees no great problems".

I thought I would have been able to tell, from the 'wobbly shots' if a hand-held was being used during 'All You Need Is Love' and had assumed it wasn't put to use, but I do now think that it might be the hand-held camera seen passing in the back of that shot (4.52ish in the All You Need Is Love video I posted) that I mentioned in the earlier post. 
What with using a Mole Crane on an OB and possibly this early use of a small camera, Burrell-Davis was being quite daring I guess.

Small cameras began to appear later of course and at LWT we were using little LDK13 cameras occasionally a few years later on, as I know the BBC were, but the Marconi V321 didn't have a proper viewfinder and must have relied on a small external video monitor to focus etc. and I don't know what the phrase 'on line and on cable' that D B-D used might mean. Perhaps the CCU was displaced out of the scanner?

Dave T
www.postfade.co.uk
'About Broadcast and Recorded Sound'


On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 at 22:37, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> If anybody is still in touch with any BBC Tel OB vision engineers from that era, they might be able to explain.
> 
> I can remember the drainpipe camera kicking about in Vision Test Room for a long time and often being messed about with, so presumably a lot of engineers must have worked on it at some time.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 22:29, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ? I don?t remember the Marconi drainpipe Vidicon camera, but I?d be surprised if it was able to be synchronised to station (or whatever) syncs. The reason I say that is because around that time I had looked fairly thoroughly into Vidicon cameras just for the fun of it, and actually built one. The tube was an ex-Pres ?A? reject scrounged from Valve Maintenance on the 4th floor, which you could do if you could show that you had a yoke for it, and by chance, Elektor magazine (first published in 1960) had an advert for a vidicon tube yoke. The rest I had to design for myself.  I already had a suitable Dallmeyer ?C? mount cine lens. My moment of huge pride was while on a Sound attachment to Pres A, an always jovial engineer, whose name I wish I could remember, routed it into the Continuity A mixer one afternoon with it set it up in front of the rotating World globe. I was dead chuffed, not just because its picture was up on air, but that the whole of BBC1 was synced to it! 
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>> 
>>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 21:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> I know that Kendal Avenue did have at least one Marconi drainpipe camera.  When I joined in 1968, it was used as a general purpose fixed camera which could be mounted and simply cut to whenever it was needed.  I don?t ever recall it being fitted or used with any viewfinder other than a standard portable monitor for checking framing and focus.
>>> 
>>> The only time I can remember it being used on a show I was working on was in 1970 when it was used as a caption camera on a show which was otherwise in colour.  I can?t remember why it was being used because units in those days had a large caption scanner rather like an oversized tea chest which travelled on the camera van. The proper caption scanner had a built- in vidicon camera, lighting and a mechanism to allow 12x9 captions to be changed in shot.
>>> 
>>> Alan Taylor
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 21 Nov 2020, at 20:45, David Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> Bernard,
>>>> Following our 'private' discussion on the above...I thought I'd include the whole of the Tech Ops email. I'm sorry I failed to hit the correct 'reply all' button before.
>>>> Firstly the photo you show above is by Leslie Bryce, taken on the Saturday afternoon rehearsals and that's Dave Gautier's camera on the Mole Crane. It has only  'fixed lenses' in the turret I see, even though Derek Burrell-Davis had requested all except the 'control room camera to be fitted with V5 zooms.
>>>> I now think it most probably stayed with fixed lenses, although I had thought it 'zoomed in' at the end of it's 'tracks' each time. Perhaps a cameraman could review my composite video of the All You Need Is Love sequence and 'advise me'...I'm only a soundman after all!
>>>> 
>>>> The other thought is that I rejected the idea that a minature Marconi V321 'pipe camera' was in fact employed at all. The Director had requested one and in peering again at the video I think I've spotted it's use at 4.52 in the timeline. A small camera is in the background of the shot and it looks like the little V321 to me. I also think the operator is wearing cans!
>>>> Any engineers or cameramen know anything about that strange early ( it's 1967!) hand-held Vidicon camera?...It had no viewfinder!
>>>> 
>>>> Once again, my post about 'All You Need Is Love' is at: 
>>>> http://postfade.co.uk/television-sound/1967-our-world-the-all-you-need-is-love-o-b-at-abbey-road-with-the-beatles/
>>>> 
>>>> And the video I compiled from the black and white and colourised sections is towards the end of my rather too detailed post!
>>>> 
>>>> David Taylor
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 at 21:35, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> I seem to remember much discussion a while back about who was at Abbey Road and what cameras. I just saw this on Facebook - 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> <hibjmmiaohlnocga.png>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> -- 
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>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From mibridge at mac.com  Sun Nov 22 16:26:30 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 22:26:30 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: 38 degrees Bye bye BBC?
References: <51e44cc1.AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6@mailjet.com>
Message-ID: <1DD86284-D76D-4E80-9ABF-A19BE35B7809@mac.com>

IN case you don?t receive this direct.

Mike G

> 
> 
> Our BBC is under threat. This week Oliver Dowden, the minister in charge of our national broadcaster, wrote a newspaper article questioning whether the BBC should even exist. [1] At a time when we urgently need independent media owned by the public, this is scary. 
> 
> Oliver Dowden and a powerful group of people - including current or former bosses at Facebook and Sky News - will soon meet to review the future of public broadcasting in Britain. [2] It could spell the end for our BBC - unless we act now to save it. 
> 
> We need to make sure our voices are heard in this review - and prove beyond doubt that the government can?t get rid of the BBC on our watch. With enough money we could launch stunts, polling, advertisements, whatever it takes to get our message in front of the people that need to hear it. 
> 
> One of us alone couldn?t run a campaign like this - but there are thousands of us reading this email today. If we all chipped in just a few pounds, we?d have the money in no time. Please will you chip in today to launch our biggest fighting fund ever to protect public broadcast like the BBC?
> 
> CHIP IN ?5 <http://xolpg.mjt.lu/lnk/AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6R0Vt8Qy_RrywRlG-58sSOgAEpK8/1/FoaQPiB5WHgAmbCa8hWKng/aHR0cHM6Ly9pZC4zOGRlZ3JlZXMub3JnLnVrL2NsaWNrcy9saW5rLzM0ODgxLzA3NmExMTNmLTRlMDYtNGIwNi05OTkzLTQ0YzRhOWJlNTdkZT91cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkYzOGQuZ3MlMkZiYmNfZnVuZHJhaXNlcl9raWNrX21yJTNGZG9uYXRpb25fYW1vdW50JTNENSZtZW1iZXJfZ3VpZD1odU5sVnN5VUxBbFhkck5uUHVMMjg3QQ>
> CHIP IN ?8 <http://xolpg.mjt.lu/lnk/AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6R0Vt8Qy_RrywRlG-58sSOgAEpK8/2/iQQPjU18fWqOIjDiiXHEGg/aHR0cHM6Ly9pZC4zOGRlZ3JlZXMub3JnLnVrL2NsaWNrcy9saW5rLzM0ODgxLzA3NmExMTNmLTRlMDYtNGIwNi05OTkzLTQ0YzRhOWJlNTdkZT91cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkYzOGQuZ3MlMkZiYmNfZnVuZHJhaXNlcl9raWNrX21yJTNGZG9uYXRpb25fYW1vdW50JTNEOCZtZW1iZXJfZ3VpZD1odU5sVnN5VUxBbFhkck5uUHVMMjg3QQ>
> CHIP IN ?10 <http://xolpg.mjt.lu/lnk/AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6R0Vt8Qy_RrywRlG-58sSOgAEpK8/3/Ph5ldFm6KxX1aKiWskY02w/aHR0cHM6Ly9pZC4zOGRlZ3JlZXMub3JnLnVrL2NsaWNrcy9saW5rLzM0ODgxLzA3NmExMTNmLTRlMDYtNGIwNi05OTkzLTQ0YzRhOWJlNTdkZT91cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkYzOGQuZ3MlMkZiYmNfZnVuZHJhaXNlcl9raWNrX21yJTNGZG9uYXRpb25fYW1vdW50JTNEMTAmbWVtYmVyX2d1aWQ9aHVObFZzeVVMQWxYZHJOblB1TDI4N0E>
> CHIP IN OTHER <http://xolpg.mjt.lu/lnk/AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6R0Vt8Qy_RrywRlG-58sSOgAEpK8/4/b0ObcGzLecIaJVj6XypOrg/aHR0cHM6Ly9pZC4zOGRlZ3JlZXMub3JnLnVrL2NsaWNrcy9saW5rLzM0ODgxLzA3NmExMTNmLTRlMDYtNGIwNi05OTkzLTQ0YzRhOWJlNTdkZT91cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkYzOGQuZ3MlMkZiYmNfZnVuZHJhaXNlcl9raWNrX21yJm1lbWJlcl9ndWlkPWh1TmxWc3lVTEFsWGRyTm5QdUwyODdB>
> It doesn?t take much to imagine what our country would look like without a well-funded, independent, public broadcaster like the BBC that we can trust. We only need to look to the USA, where misinformation and bias run rampant in the media with the likes of Fox News. [3] We can?t allow the same to happen here. 
> 
> The BBC has powerful enemies: media giants who would prefer no competition and government ministers who?d prefer to dodge scrutiny. And it?s worrying that the future of the BBC is being reviewed by current and former lieutenants of Rupert Murdoch and Mark Zuckerberg. [4] 
> 
> But the BBC also has friends: thousands of us willing to defend something we all own together. If we kick up enough of a fuss we can convince the group carrying out the review that there?ll be too high a price to pay for trying to destroy it. 
> 
> So please Mike, will you be one of the people who chips in to defend public broadcasters like the BBC?
> 
> CHIP IN ?5 <http://xolpg.mjt.lu/lnk/AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6R0Vt8Qy_RrywRlG-58sSOgAEpK8/5/LxiZTvkHZZAAN415pEWUiw/aHR0cHM6Ly9pZC4zOGRlZ3JlZXMub3JnLnVrL2NsaWNrcy9saW5rLzM0ODgxLzA3NmExMTNmLTRlMDYtNGIwNi05OTkzLTQ0YzRhOWJlNTdkZT91cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkYzOGQuZ3MlMkZiYmNfZnVuZHJhaXNlcl9raWNrX21yJTNGZG9uYXRpb25fYW1vdW50JTNENSZtZW1iZXJfZ3VpZD1odU5sVnN5VUxBbFhkck5uUHVMMjg3QQ>
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> CHIP IN OTHER <http://xolpg.mjt.lu/lnk/AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6R0Vt8Qy_RrywRlG-58sSOgAEpK8/8/M0w5rXe-3IFOZkBtCnA3Mw/aHR0cHM6Ly9pZC4zOGRlZ3JlZXMub3JnLnVrL2NsaWNrcy9saW5rLzM0ODgxLzA3NmExMTNmLTRlMDYtNGIwNi05OTkzLTQ0YzRhOWJlNTdkZT91cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkYzOGQuZ3MlMkZiYmNfZnVuZHJhaXNlcl9raWNrX21yJm1lbWJlcl9ndWlkPWh1TmxWc3lVTEFsWGRyTm5QdUwyODdB>
> 
> Thank you for everything you do, 
> 
> Matt, Mike, Jess, Robin and the 38 Degrees team 
> 
> 
> PS: From free school meals to Universal Credit, October was a busy month for 38 Degrees members all over the UK. Want to see the highlights of what we got up to? Click the link below to watch a short video:
> https://38d.gs/october-impact-video 
> 
> NOTES:
> [1] BBC News: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden questions future of public service broadcasting <http://xolpg.mjt.lu/lnk/AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6R0Vt8Qy_RrywRlG-58sSOgAEpK8/9/VKAnyz4BOIJKUlwbTuseXQ/aHR0cHM6Ly9pZC4zOGRlZ3JlZXMub3JnLnVrL2NsaWNrcy9saW5rLzM0ODgxLzA3NmExMTNmLTRlMDYtNGIwNi05OTkzLTQ0YzRhOWJlNTdkZT91cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkZ3d3cuYmJjLmNvLnVrJTJGbmV3cyUyRmVudGVydGFpbm1lbnQtYXJ0cy01NDg4NTk4NSZtZW1iZXJfZ3VpZD1odU5sVnN5VUxBbFhkck5uUHVMMjg3QQ>
> Telegraph (paywall): BBC and Channel 4 face 'profound questions' in the digital age as ministers question future of public broadcasting <http://xolpg.mjt.lu/lnk/AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6R0Vt8Qy_RrywRlG-58sSOgAEpK8/10/nV7eRWkJ7_JPidxumi7lRg/aHR0cHM6Ly9pZC4zOGRlZ3JlZXMub3JnLnVrL2NsaWNrcy9saW5rLzM0ODgxLzA3NmExMTNmLTRlMDYtNGIwNi05OTkzLTQ0YzRhOWJlNTdkZT91cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkZ3d3cudGVsZWdyYXBoLmNvLnVrJTJGcG9saXRpY3MlMkYyMDIwJTJGMTElMkYxMCUyRmJiYy1jaGFubmVsLTQtZmFjZS1wcm9mb3VuZC1xdWVzdGlvbnMtZGlnaXRhbC1hZ2UtbWluaXN0ZXJzJTJGJm1lbWJlcl9ndWlkPWh1TmxWc3lVTEFsWGRyTm5QdUwyODdB>
> [2] "Members on the public service broadcasting panel will include Conservative peer Lord Grade, who has previously been chairman of the BBC, executive chairman of ITV and CEO of Channel 4; Baroness Bertin, a former press secretary to David Cameron; and Sir Robbie Gibb, the former director of communications to Theresa May and former head of BBC Westminster. Joining them will be Andrew Griffith MP, Boris Johnson's former business tsar and former chief operating officer of Sky Group PLC; and Nicola Mendelsohn, Facebook's vice president for Europe. Several former senior executives of Sky, ITN and Endemol Shine are also on the panel." Read more here:
> BBC News: Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden questions future of public service broadcasting <http://xolpg.mjt.lu/lnk/AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6R0Vt8Qy_RrywRlG-58sSOgAEpK8/11/XbUfiY7Wx9gCL7BKj9RLaQ/aHR0cHM6Ly9pZC4zOGRlZ3JlZXMub3JnLnVrL2NsaWNrcy9saW5rLzM0ODgxLzA3NmExMTNmLTRlMDYtNGIwNi05OTkzLTQ0YzRhOWJlNTdkZT91cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkZ3d3cuYmJjLmNvLnVrJTJGbmV3cyUyRmVudGVydGFpbm1lbnQtYXJ0cy01NDg4NTk4NSZtZW1iZXJfZ3VpZD1odU5sVnN5VUxBbFhkck5uUHVMMjg3QQ>
> iNews: Viewers ?excluded? from ?industry insider? panel to examine future of BBC and Channel 4 <http://xolpg.mjt.lu/lnk/AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6R0Vt8Qy_RrywRlG-58sSOgAEpK8/12/ZraIuOpJjicrmjyiWifQig/aHR0cHM6Ly9pZC4zOGRlZ3JlZXMub3JnLnVrL2NsaWNrcy9saW5rLzM0ODgxLzA3NmExMTNmLTRlMDYtNGIwNi05OTkzLTQ0YzRhOWJlNTdkZT91cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkZpbmV3cy5jby51ayUyRm5ld3MlMkZtZWRpYSUyRmJiYy1jaGFubmVsLTQtZnV0dXJlLWluZHVzdHJ5LWluc2lkZXItcGFuZWwtdmlld2Vycy1leGNsdWRlZC03NTUyNjcmbWVtYmVyX2d1aWQ9aHVObFZzeVVMQWxYZHJOblB1TDI4N0E>
> [3] Business Insider: Fox News reportedly told on-air talent not to refer to Joe Biden as the president-elect even if the network calls the 2020 race for him <http://xolpg.mjt.lu/lnk/AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6R0Vt8Qy_RrywRlG-58sSOgAEpK8/13/0L6B5HfZ3H8FZQHG0kintw/aHR0cHM6Ly9pZC4zOGRlZ3JlZXMub3JnLnVrL2NsaWNrcy9saW5rLzM0ODgxLzA3NmExMTNmLTRlMDYtNGIwNi05OTkzLTQ0YzRhOWJlNTdkZT91cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkZ3d3cuYnVzaW5lc3NpbnNpZGVyLmNvbSUyRmZveC1uZXdzLXRvbGQtdGFsZW50LW5vdC10by1jYWxsLWJpZGVuLXByZXNpZGVudC1lbGVjdC0yMDIwLTExJm1lbWJlcl9ndWlkPWh1TmxWc3lVTEFsWGRyTm5QdUwyODdB> 
> The Guardian: The misinformation media machine amplifying Trump's election lies <http://xolpg.mjt.lu/lnk/AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6R0Vt8Qy_RrywRlG-58sSOgAEpK8/14/YTA5XeflCj5Q3yR14jR0Yg/aHR0cHM6Ly9pZC4zOGRlZ3JlZXMub3JnLnVrL2NsaWNrcy9saW5rLzM0ODgxLzA3NmExMTNmLTRlMDYtNGIwNi05OTkzLTQ0YzRhOWJlNTdkZT91cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkZ3d3cudGhlZ3VhcmRpYW4uY29tJTJGdXMtbmV3cyUyRjIwMjAlMkZub3YlMkYxMCUyRmRvbmFsZC10cnVtcC11cy1lbGVjdGlvbi1taXNpbmZvcm1hdGlvbi1tZWRpYSZtZW1iZXJfZ3VpZD1odU5sVnN5VUxBbFhkck5uUHVMMjg3QQ>
> [4] See Note 2.
> 38 Degrees wouldn?t exist without you, Mike.
> 
> 38 Degrees has no big donors or corporate sponsors. Everything we achieve together is only possible because of fivers and tenners from ordinary people like you. 
> 
> Please will you consider chipping in a fiver, a tenner or whatever you can spare now? Click here to donate securely: 
> 
> CHIP IN <http://xolpg.mjt.lu/lnk/AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6R0Vt8Qy_RrywRlG-58sSOgAEpK8/15/2GNcBHNg2H44SmoJ65Jlbg/aHR0cHM6Ly9pZC4zOGRlZ3JlZXMub3JnLnVrL2NsaWNrcy9saW5rLzM0ODgxLzA3NmExMTNmLTRlMDYtNGIwNi05OTkzLTQ0YzRhOWJlNTdkZT91cmw9aHR0cHMlM0ElMkYlMkYzOGRncy5vcmcudWslMkZjaGlwX2luX2Zvb3RlciZtZW1iZXJfZ3VpZD1odU5sVnN5VUxBbFhkck5uUHVMMjg3QQ>
> Unsubscribe: If you no longer wish to be part of our movement and receive our emails you can unsubscribe here <http://xolpg.mjt.lu/lnk/AM8AAIkDOdsAAAAAAAAAAAFQyXsAAAAAQucAAAAAABD2zQBfunG6R0Vt8Qy_RrywRlG-58sSOgAEpK8/16/oLg1pL-ujCwN8IC9Y04a-w/aHR0cHM6Ly9pZC4zOGRlZ3JlZXMub3JnLnVrL3N1YnNjcmlwdGlvbnMvdW5zdWJzY3JpYmU_c3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uPTEmZW1haWw9bWlrZS5naWxlc0BtYWMuY29t>.
> 
> This email was sent to mike.giles at mac.com.
> 
> 38 DEGREES
> Limited by guarantee
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 22 16:36:24 2020
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2020 22:36:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Petrol life
In-Reply-To: <HotQd33kFVuIVRd0pERI-DaC25E1pE5WtheJWlCgzX9TtxWXErpHvutoBFxVu2pXgDPSfGzo0DZiaogQMJCotTts481wCnM1w2SSVVk-IsY=@protonmail.com>
References: <HotQd33kFVuIVRd0pERI-DaC25E1pE5WtheJWlCgzX9TtxWXErpHvutoBFxVu2pXgDPSfGzo0DZiaogQMJCotTts481wCnM1w2SSVVk-IsY=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <40955F43-B447-4005-B403-0FBCDFD52F36@gmail.com>

I?ve heard that before about petrol not having a long shelf life but I have a petrol-oil mixture stored in a plastic can from last year that I used in my strimmer again last week and had no trouble starting it or running it. I have petrol stored in a metal can for the lawn mowers and that keeps through the winter months OK. Perhaps I?ve been lucky,
Geoff

> On 22 Nov 2020, at 20:56, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I had no idea that petrol had a short life if left around your garden shed for a few months in a plastic canister (over a year in this case). Fortunately one of my neighbours knew all about this, but the upshot was a complete clean out and blow through a carburettor of my petrol generator, which I was going to run up in case we have any power cuts this winter (after a year's idling). We'd just had a power cut this week, so that prompted the exercise, talk about frustrating, couldn't work out why the damn thing wouldn't start - petrol yes - oil, yes - spark, yes - choke, yes.........well expletives undeleted.
> 
> So, just in case I'm not the only one who didn't know this - you do now!
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> 
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 22 18:50:34 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 00:50:34 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Bringing up children today
Message-ID: <b2a9078c-f91f-b199-ce74-ad3176da68ae@btinternet.com>

Here's my great grandson earning his keep at nearly 2 years old, the 
sooner they start the better! Cheers, Dave

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From mibridge at mac.com  Mon Nov 23 02:14:45 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:14:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Bringing up children today
In-Reply-To: <b2a9078c-f91f-b199-ce74-ad3176da68ae@btinternet.com>
References: <b2a9078c-f91f-b199-ce74-ad3176da68ae@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <9E639952-1D4E-4BE1-9A3A-25108A7DF98A@mac.com>

Isn?t that just the best age? Full of wonder and light enough to carry!

Mike G

> On 23 Nov 2020, at 00:50, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Here's my great grandson earning his keep at nearly 2 years old, the sooner they start the better! Cheers, Dave
> 
> <Henry the Car Washer.jpg>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Mon Nov 23 03:08:42 2020
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 09:08:42 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] GREEN CARDS
Message-ID: <D9CA00C4-0973-491C-A8D2-39C9F54A77AF@btinternet.com>

Although no one is going nowhere had this the other day.
Looking forward to going abroad next year?

Best wishes to this great group
Albert


Brexit and Green Cards 
With effect from the 1st January 2021 UK motorists will be required to carry a legal document known as a Green Card when driving in the European Economic Area (EEA).  The legal requirements of the Green Card system mean you must carry the physical document.  If you are towing a trailer on your journey and this is over 750kg or braked (e.g caravan/horse box) you must carry a seperate Green Card for this.  

It's also mandatory to carry a French government certified (NF) breathalyser or alcohol detection test kit in your car, but this law is currently in the process of being repealed and fines are not being imposed.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/driving-abroad/92245/driving-in-france-top-tips
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From tonynuttall at me.com  Mon Nov 23 03:21:38 2020
From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 09:21:38 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Petrol Stuff Rubber Seals in Fuel Lines
Message-ID: <efba3b9e-3388-4df9-a392-fcb7ac4a66dd@me.com>

My younger daughter has started a business hiring out TV/Film vehicles.
Two vehicles that they have had problems with were caused by rubber seals
in the fuel lines. The rubber can be melted by modern petrols that results in
blocked carb jets. Easily rectified when you know the problem!
Two of her vehicles that have secumed to these snags. David J in a not
?RELIANT VAN?shoot in Yorkshire the other ?ECTO1 about to do a photo call.
Tony N.



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From relong at btinternet.com  Mon Nov 23 03:55:05 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 09:55:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Petrol Stuff Rubber Seals in Fuel Lines
In-Reply-To: <efba3b9e-3388-4df9-a392-fcb7ac4a66dd@me.com>
References: <efba3b9e-3388-4df9-a392-fcb7ac4a66dd@me.com>
Message-ID: <8A4DA386-C904-4448-9342-B37CEF8B6A71@btinternet.com>

Filmed Trotters Reliant going around Waterloo Roundabout many times for the Millennium Series
The prop guys had an elaborate smoke machine for the  zero emission exhaust plume?..

> On 23 Nov 2020, at 09:21, William Nuttall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> My younger daughter has started a business hiring out TV/Film vehicles.
> Two vehicles that they have had problems with were caused by rubber seals
> in the fuel lines. The rubber can be melted by modern petrols that results in
> blocked carb jets. Easily rectified when you know the problem!
> Two of her vehicles that have secumed to these snags. David J in a not
>  RELIANT VAN shoot in Yorkshire the other  ECTO1 about to do a photo call.
> Tony N.
> 
> <image.jpeg><Screenshot 2020-09-18 at 12.45.24.jpeg>
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From davesound at btinternet.com  Mon Nov 23 07:09:31 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 13:09:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Petrol Stuff Rubber Seals in Fuel Lines
In-Reply-To: <efba3b9e-3388-4df9-a392-fcb7ac4a66dd@me.com>
References: <efba3b9e-3388-4df9-a392-fcb7ac4a66dd@me.com>
Message-ID: <58d3ebefcedavesound@btinternet.com>

Quite a bit about ethanol in modern petrol attacking various bits of the
fuel system in older cars, in my classic car club. I've had to replace
most of the rubber fuel parts in my 30 odd year old one - but mainly just
down to age. Might be different with very high concentrations of ethanol -
like in some countries - but then the car wouldn't run on those properly
without modification.  


In article <efba3b9e-3388-4df9-a392-fcb7ac4a66dd at me.com>,
   William Nuttall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> My younger daughter has started a business hiring out TV/Film vehicles.
> Two vehicles that they have had problems with were caused by rubber seals
> in the fuel lines. The rubber can be melted by modern petrols that results in
> blocked carb jets. Easily rectified when you know the problem!
> Two of her vehicles that have secumed to these snags. David J in a not
>  RELIANT VAN shoot in Yorkshire the other  ECTO1 about to do a photo call.
> Tony N.




> --Apple-Webmail-42--52ded663-dabb-4a22-875e-04890b58e066
> Content-Type: multipart/related;
>     type="text/html";
>     boundary=Apple-Webmail-86--52ded663-dabb-4a22-875e-04890b58e066

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Mon Nov 23 09:33:20 2020
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 15:33:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] GREEN CARDS
In-Reply-To: <D9CA00C4-0973-491C-A8D2-39C9F54A77AF@btinternet.com>
References: <D9CA00C4-0973-491C-A8D2-39C9F54A77AF@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <34DA668F-8C8D-474E-805A-0B17F749731B@zero51.force9.co.uk>

And an International Driving Permit. Maybe. 
?5.50 at the Post Office

Peter Fox

On 23 Nov 2020, at 09:09, Albert Barber via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?Although no one is going nowhere had this the other day.
Looking forward to going abroad next year?

Best wishes to this great group
Albert


Brexit and Green Cards 
With effect from the 1st January 2021 UK motorists will be required to carry a legal document known as a Green Card when driving in the European Economic Area (EEA).  The legal requirements of the Green Card system mean you must carry the physical document.  If you are towing a trailer on your journey and this is over 750kg or braked (e.g caravan/horse box) you must carry a seperate Green Card for this.  

It's also mandatory to carry a French government certified (NF) breathalyser or alcohol detection test kit in your car, but this law is currently in the process of being repealed and fines are not being imposed.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/driving-abroad/92245/driving-in-france-top-tips
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Mon Nov 23 09:46:47 2020
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 15:46:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Petrol life
In-Reply-To: <40955F43-B447-4005-B403-0FBCDFD52F36@gmail.com>
References: <40955F43-B447-4005-B403-0FBCDFD52F36@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF86C125-FED6-4ED1-8AFD-ED8923FA3C39@zero51.force9.co.uk>

Winter petrol is more volatile than summer petrol so it might last better if well sealed, so maybe saved summer petrol might struggle a bit? More likely that the residual fuel in the carb after a long disuse would have evaporated and left deposits where they didn?t oughter be. If just minor, it will flush out after a some tedious starter pulling. Then there?s dampness in the magneto. I guess you were just lucky Geoff

Peter Fox

On 22 Nov 2020, at 22:36, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?I?ve heard that before about petrol not having a long shelf life but I have a petrol-oil mixture stored in a plastic can from last year that I used in my strimmer again last week and had no trouble starting it or running it. I have petrol stored in a metal can for the lawn mowers and that keeps through the winter months OK. Perhaps I?ve been lucky,
Geoff

> On 22 Nov 2020, at 20:56, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I had no idea that petrol had a short life if left around your garden shed for a few months in a plastic canister (over a year in this case). Fortunately one of my neighbours knew all about this, but the upshot was a complete clean out and blow through a carburettor of my petrol generator, which I was going to run up in case we have any power cuts this winter (after a year's idling). We'd just had a power cut this week, so that prompted the exercise, talk about frustrating, couldn't work out why the damn thing wouldn't start - petrol yes - oil, yes - spark, yes - choke, yes.........well expletives undeleted.
> 
> So, just in case I'm not the only one who didn't know this - you do now!
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> 
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Mon Nov 23 16:25:53 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 22:25:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] RIP
Message-ID: <a20b53b7-4cc1-b508-5abb-504087f6aa54@btinternet.com>

The death, announced today, of John Spaull, an OB engineer, is a sad 
reminder that we are all doomed! John will be for ever renowned as the 
man who married Reg's daughter, Janet, from the BBC Club in Evesham. A 
lovely, friendly young lady, who really enjoyed her time there and made 
us all feel at home. Reg, and his wife moved to High Wycombe some years 
after I had been to Wood Norton and I was? once pleased to have tea with 
them in the TVC canteen, who can forget the egg and bacon sandwiches 
from Mrs. Reg.? which fed us so well every night! Cheers, Dave



From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Nov 23 16:35:17 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 22:35:17 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] RIP
In-Reply-To: <a20b53b7-4cc1-b508-5abb-504087f6aa54@btinternet.com>
References: <a20b53b7-4cc1-b508-5abb-504087f6aa54@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5D8F3B89-034C-482B-8158-5ABAAE564403@me.com>

I mentioned John a while ago when his picture appeared in the Daily Mirror in connection with his work after leaving the BBC.  John was an excellent vision supervisor who also had a lifelong passion for fast cars.  After he left the BBC, he landed the most perfect job for him, working as an in-car electronics engineer on some of the James Bond movies. 

Top bloke, truly sad loss.

Alan Taylor

> On 23 Nov 2020, at 22:25, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?The death, announced today, of John Spaull, an OB engineer, is a sad reminder that we are all doomed! John will be for ever renowned as the man who married Reg's daughter, Janet, from the BBC Club in Evesham. A lovely, friendly young lady, who really enjoyed her time there and made us all feel at home. Reg, and his wife moved to High Wycombe some years after I had been to Wood Norton and I was  once pleased to have tea with them in the TVC canteen, who can forget the egg and bacon sandwiches from Mrs. Reg.  which fed us so well every night! Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Nov 25 06:33:43 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 12:33:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] RIP
In-Reply-To: <a20b53b7-4cc1-b508-5abb-504087f6aa54@btinternet.com>
References: <a20b53b7-4cc1-b508-5abb-504087f6aa54@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5fbe4f27.1c69fb81.c2ba3.8dd2@mx.google.com>

The mention of Reg, the Evesham Club?s steward, reminds me of an hilarious moment one evening.
On our course was a chap from transmitters ? Frank Smith, a bit older than the rest of us and somewhat more worldly-wise.
Reg produced a plastic funnel and a coin, saying I bet you can?t tuck the funnel into your waistband, put the coin on your forehead and tip it in. Frank played dumb and ?didn?t understand? what Reg was on about. Frustrated, to demonstrate,  Reg stuck the funnel in his own trousers, whereupon Frank tipped his pint straight in. The expression on Reg?s face when he?d been caught in his own trick was priceless!
There?s a few people in the course photo that will be recognised. If anyone can put a name to the (?) queries, please reply.

Pat




Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: dave.mdv via Tech1
Sent: 23 November 2020 22:25
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; ,Phil >> Phil; Pete; Dave; Dave; Richard
Subject: [Tech1] RIP

T



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Wed Nov 25 10:29:19 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:29:19 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Ebay
Message-ID: <4d0ab5b.ea10.176003ce5ff.Webtop.100@btinternet.com>




Hi All,

Apparently, this L.P. was sold on Ebay last week, for ?24. Do Ebay pay 
royalties?



luv, Rog.
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Wed Nov 25 10:40:25 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 16:40:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Ebay
In-Reply-To: <4d0ab5b.ea10.176003ce5ff.Webtop.100@btinternet.com>
References: <4d0ab5b.ea10.176003ce5ff.Webtop.100@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <52DD9229-1720-4C96-8207-9309C36B0E5F@icloud.com>

Only if they play it!

Graeme Wall

> On 25 Nov 2020, at 16:29, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Apparently, this L.P. was sold on Ebay last week, for ?24. Do Ebay pay royalties?
> 
> <8f4d3930.jpg>
> 
> 
> luv, Rog.
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 26 02:56:46 2020
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:56:46 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra
Message-ID: <42543a05-18d8-1041-50ed-3f3e89e7228e@gmail.com>


Hi Roger,

Some people on Facebook (Gary Critcher, David Brunt) know about this - 
but there are lots of us in the Tech Ops group who know nothing of this 
mysterious scriptwriter Roger Bunce !!? Could it be a TV cameraman 
succumbing to the lure of words without pictures?? "...A one-time 
playwright in 1979..."

Tell us more! We (- I -) really want to know all about this!!! My seven 
little friends want to know:

What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who and ShowMe-






Very best regards, keep safe!

-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502



From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 26 05:30:25 2020
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 11:30:25 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] [Announce] Fwd: Mike Jeffries
In-Reply-To: <4737ac7a-5e1d-dba8-f164-0d97e8bdbd7e@gmail.com>
References: <5979193646004C438733158937EFA21D@DarbydPC1>
	<4737ac7a-5e1d-dba8-f164-0d97e8bdbd7e@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007e01d6c3e7$89488020$9bd98060$@gmail.com>

Hi Dudley,
Sorry to hear about Mike Jeffries and thanks for telling us. Was he related
to Jeff Jeffries? I hope either you or one of his colleagues who knew him
well will write a piece about him for Prospero as I think everyone deserves
to be remembered in that way unless they really wouldn't have wanted it,

Regards,
Geoff

-----Original Message-----
From: Announce <announce-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Bernard
Newnham via Announce
Sent: 25 November 2020 23:16
To: TechOps Announce <announce at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: [Announce] Fwd: Mike Jeffries




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	Mike Jeffries
Date: 	Wed, 25 Nov 2020 20:29:12 -0000
From: 	Dudley Darby <dudley.darby at gmail.com>
Reply-To: 	Dudley.Darby at gmail.com
To: 	'Bernard Newnham' <bernie833 at gmail.com>



Hi Bernie

Spotted this in LSI today. Apparently Mike died in October. Squire always
referred to him as "The Teenage TOM" because of his youthful looks as a
TOM1, what we later called TM1 and LD. Mike used to do a lot of sailing, and
occasionally I ran into him in Faversham when he was moored up at the
Shipwrights Arms out on Oare Creek.

Best regards

Dudley

*Email: *_Dudley.Darby at gmail.com <mailto:Dudley.Darby at gmail.com>_


<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
--
Announce mailing list
Announce at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce_tech-ops.co.uk



From techtone at protonmail.com  Thu Nov 26 09:45:00 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 15:45:00 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
Message-ID: <bnGRPu9lO-WFyRAxtKdLuoo5x1vP-FCJUThgEQP9_N_dX-E9p10sGikYdcVs27WMQrwrAzz1BytfWyzccdWYuzQc6F1NQoqS2drbXzYnfqU=@protonmail.com>

We have a large outbuilding which my wife wants to use as a studio for painting, but of course it's cold in the winter. It seems to me that the best answer for localised warmth would be a radiant heater, and I have had a look at some on the internet. Goodness, I had no idea there was such a wide range, so has anyone any thoughts on the pros and cons of different types, i.e. freestanding on an elevated pole, floor standing, angle adjustable, etc. It needs to be easily moveable, and so wall fixing types are no good. Also, as she wants to paint in oils, we know that she needs to be careful of where it's sited, and the sort of guard it has over the element/s.

Right, I look forward to the benefit of your wisdom,

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 26 10:41:10 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 16:41:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
In-Reply-To: <bnGRPu9lO-WFyRAxtKdLuoo5x1vP-FCJUThgEQP9_N_dX-E9p10sGikYdcVs27WMQrwrAzz1BytfWyzccdWYuzQc6F1NQoqS2drbXzYnfqU=@protonmail.com>
References: <bnGRPu9lO-WFyRAxtKdLuoo5x1vP-FCJUThgEQP9_N_dX-E9p10sGikYdcVs27WMQrwrAzz1BytfWyzccdWYuzQc6F1NQoqS2drbXzYnfqU=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <79374ecd-494b-b44c-c00a-1c953dd199ff@gmail.com>

One of these then?



B

On 26/11/2020 15:45, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
> We have a large outbuilding which my wife wants to use as a studio for 
> painting, but of course it's cold in the winter. It seems to me that 
> the best answer for localised warmth would be a radiant heater, and I 
> have had a look at some on the internet. Goodness, I had no idea there 
> was such a wide range, so has anyone any thoughts on the pros and cons 
> of different types, i.e. freestanding on an elevated pole, floor 
> standing, angle adjustable, etc. It needs to be easily moveable, and 
> so wall fixing types are no good. Also, as she wants to paint in oils, 
> we know that she needs to be careful of where it's sited, and the sort 
> of guard it has over the element/s.
>
> Right, I look forward to the benefit of your wisdom,
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
>
> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
>
>

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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 26 12:06:04 2020
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 18:06:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra
Message-ID: <d375e8c0-976a-650b-5484-e3979a918027@gmail.com>

oooops... I have been setting up a new computer, and obviously got a 
setting wrong in Thunderbird: an email I tried to send this morning lost 
the pictures, so it made no sense.? I'll try again, this time with 
piccys.? Many apologies.....

=========


Hi Roger,

Some people on Facebook (Gary Critcher, David Brunt) know about this - 
but there are lots of us in the Tech Ops group who know nothing of this 
mysterious scriptwriter Roger Bunce !!? Could it be a TV cameraman 
succumbing to the lure of words without pictures?? "...A one-time 
playwright in 1979..."

Tell us more! We (- I -) really want to know all about this!!! My seven 
little friends want to know:

What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who and ShowMe-












Very best regards, keep safe!


-- 
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502

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From waresound at msn.com  Thu Nov 26 12:51:25 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 18:51:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra
In-Reply-To: <d375e8c0-976a-650b-5484-e3979a918027@gmail.com>
References: <d375e8c0-976a-650b-5484-e3979a918027@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

So was it ?our? Roger Bunce or not? I don?t trust those radio lot - there was another Nick Ware working in BBC radio, a producer, I think. I occasionally used to get his payslips, and his were a lot more than mine. And as if that wasn?t enough, there was also Peter Ware (as you all know): same thing, I sometimes got his! There, I think my middle initial ?P? was the spanner in the works.
Ware isn?t that common a surname, but I?ve always been immensely proud of my ancestor Armitage Ware, who was best known for loitering in the toilet!
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:06, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

oooops... I have been setting up a new computer, and obviously got a setting wrong in Thunderbird: an email I tried to send this morning lost the pictures, so it made no sense.  I'll try again, this time with piccys.  Many apologies.....

=========


Hi Roger,

Some people on Facebook (Gary Critcher, David Brunt) know about this - but there are lots of us in the Tech Ops group who know nothing of this mysterious scriptwriter Roger Bunce !!  Could it be a TV cameraman succumbing to the lure of words without pictures?  "...A one-time playwright in 1979..."

Tell us more! We (- I -) really want to know all about this!!! My seven little friends want to know:

What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who and ShowMe-


[cid:part1.B60BF76D.B43A8F16 at gmail.com]



[cid:part2.14016DD1.F9631180 at gmail.com]



[cid:part3.3A0BE03D.90BDED34 at gmail.com]



[cid:part4.3E2887FD.AF60D5F6 at gmail.com]



Very best regards, keep safe!


--
=======

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com<mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
Mob:  07789 561 346
Tel:  0118 981 7502

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Thu Nov 26 12:55:23 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 18:55:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <d375e8c0-976a-650b-5484-e3979a918027@gmail.com>
	<VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <B26E3B33-8AAB-47E0-9000-C8ED98E1DFF5@icloud.com>

Any truth in the rumour that Armitage shanks?
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:51, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> So was it ?our? Roger Bunce or not? I don?t trust those radio lot - there was another Nick Ware working in BBC radio, a producer, I think. I occasionally used to get his payslips, and his were a lot more than mine. And as if that wasn?t enough, there was also Peter Ware (as you all know): same thing, I sometimes got his! There, I think my middle initial ?P? was the spanner in the works.
> Ware isn?t that common a surname, but I?ve always been immensely proud of my ancestor Armitage Ware, who was best known for loitering in the toilet!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:06, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> oooops... I have been setting up a new computer, and obviously got a setting wrong in Thunderbird: an email I tried to send this morning lost the pictures, so it made no sense.  I'll try again, this time with piccys.  Many apologies.....
>> 
>> =========
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Roger, 
>> 
>> Some people on Facebook (Gary Critcher, David Brunt) know about this - but there are lots of us in the Tech Ops group who know nothing of this mysterious scriptwriter Roger Bunce !!  Could it be a TV cameraman succumbing to the lure of words without pictures?  "...A one-time playwright in 1979..." 
>> 
>> Tell us more! We (- I -) really want to know all about this!!! My seven little friends want to know: 
>> 
>> What and Why and When 
>> And How and Where and Who and ShowMe- 
>> 
>> 
>> <lobpbmjghhabgfpf.jpg>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <albekoegkkpmnpdo.jpg>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <eepoaoijeaomnhdc.jpg>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <ggijdcnjnhdnggdm.jpg>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Very best regards, keep safe! 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> =======
>> 
>> Alec Bray
>> 
>> 
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> 
>> Mob:  07789 561 346
>> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From techtone at protonmail.com  Thu Nov 26 15:17:44 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 21:17:44 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
In-Reply-To: <79374ecd-494b-b44c-c00a-1c953dd199ff@gmail.com>
References: <bnGRPu9lO-WFyRAxtKdLuoo5x1vP-FCJUThgEQP9_N_dX-E9p10sGikYdcVs27WMQrwrAzz1BytfWyzccdWYuzQc6F1NQoqS2drbXzYnfqU=@protonmail.com>
	<79374ecd-494b-b44c-c00a-1c953dd199ff@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <n8YqL0Voi9hD4URwo1ALAjDOX8BDhMT3-jgkN9clyGBMMB_axXkLSonW7a5-qtl9hVGAcsTACoYsFR95f3RrpLfqlZEBvbovfC8zML0aBjk=@protonmail.com>

Doesn't look exactly radiant to me, and I'm not sure how we'd get it through the door.

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
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From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Nov 26 18:19:31 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 00:19:31 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <55F7A079-C932-4778-B158-D98FB1B3586A@mac.com>

Not forgetting Hard Ware, of course!

Mike G

> On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:52, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? So was it ?our? Roger Bunce or not? I don?t trust those radio lot - there was another Nick Ware working in BBC radio, a producer, I think. I occasionally used to get his payslips, and his were a lot more than mine. And as if that wasn?t enough, there was also Peter Ware (as you all know): same thing, I sometimes got his! There, I think my middle initial ?P? was the spanner in the works.
> Ware isn?t that common a surname, but I?ve always been immensely proud of my ancestor Armitage Ware, who was best known for loitering in the toilet!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>>> On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:06, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> oooops... I have been setting up a new computer, and obviously got a setting wrong in Thunderbird: an email I tried to send this morning lost the pictures, so it made no sense.  I'll try again, this time with piccys.  Many apologies.....
>> 
>> =========
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Roger, 
>> 
>> Some people on Facebook (Gary Critcher, David Brunt) know about this - but there are lots of us in the Tech Ops group who know nothing of this mysterious scriptwriter Roger Bunce !!  Could it be a TV cameraman succumbing to the lure of words without pictures?  "...A one-time playwright in 1979..." 
>> 
>> Tell us more! We (- I -) really want to know all about this!!! My seven little friends want to know: 
>> 
>> What and Why and When 
>> And How and Where and Who and ShowMe- 
>> 
>> 
>> <lobpbmjghhabgfpf.jpg>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <albekoegkkpmnpdo.jpg>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <eepoaoijeaomnhdc.jpg>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <ggijdcnjnhdnggdm.jpg>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Very best regards, keep safe! 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> =======
>> 
>> Alec Bray
>> 
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> Mob:  07789 561 346
>> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 27 03:16:12 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 09:16:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra
In-Reply-To: <d375e8c0-976a-650b-5484-e3979a918027@gmail.com>
References: <d375e8c0-976a-650b-5484-e3979a918027@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49460aea.107f0.17608fd1397.Webtop.116@btinternet.com>


You forgot to mention that IMDb also lists me as 'Art Department'!

------ Original Message ------
From: "Alec Bray" <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
To: "ROGER BUNCE" <rogerbunce at btinternet.com>; "Tech Ops" 
<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, 26 Nov, 20 At 18:06
Subject: Cleopatra

oooops... I have been setting up a new computer, and obviously       got 
a setting wrong in Thunderbird: an email I tried to send this 
morning lost the pictures, so it made no sense.  I'll try again, 
this time with piccys.  Many apologies.....

=========

Hi Roger,

        Some people on Facebook (Gary Critcher, David Brunt) know about 
this - but there are lots of us in the Tech Ops group who know 
nothing of this mysterious scriptwriter Roger Bunce !!  Could it 
be a TV cameraman succumbing to the lure of words without 
pictures?  "...A one-time playwright in 1979..."

        Tell us more! We (- I -) really want to know all about this!!! 
My       seven little friends want to know:

        What and Why and When
        And How and Where and Who and ShowMe-














        Very best regards, keep safe!

           -- =======Alec Brayalec.bray.2 at gmail.com 
<mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com> Mob:  07789 561 346Tel:  0118 981 7502
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From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 27 03:19:39 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 09:19:39 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <d375e8c0-976a-650b-5484-e3979a918027@gmail.com>
	<VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <2336b2ad.10807.17609003c9e.Webtop.116@btinternet.com>


And were you also related to 'Stationery Stores, Ware' to which all used 
BBC envelopes once had to be returned?

------ Original Message ------
From: "Nick Ware via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
To: "tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, 26 Nov, 20 At 18:51
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Cleopatra
  So was it ?our? Roger Bunce or not? I don?t trust those radio lot - 
there was another Nick Ware working in BBC radio, a producer, I think. I 
occasionally used to get his payslips, and his were a lot more than 
mine. And as if that wasn?t enough, there was also  Peter Ware (as you 
all know): same thing, I sometimes got his! There, I think my middle 
initial ?P? was the spanner in the works.
Ware isn?t that common a surname, but I?ve always been immensely proud 
of my ancestor Armitage Ware, who was best known for loitering in the 
toilet!

Cheers,

Nick.

Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

  On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:06, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
wrote:



?
oooops... I have been setting up a new computer, and obviously got a 
setting wrong in Thunderbird: an email I tried to send this morning lost 
the pictures, so it made no sense.  I'll try again, this time with 
piccys.  Many apologies.....

=========

Hi Roger,

  Some people on Facebook (Gary Critcher, David Brunt) know about this - 
but there are lots of us in the Tech Ops group who know nothing of this 
mysterious scriptwriter Roger Bunce !!  Could it be a TV cameraman 
succumbing to the lure of words without pictures?   "...A one-time 
playwright in 1979..."

  Tell us more! We (- I -) really want to know all about this!!! My 
seven little friends want to know:

  What and Why and When
  And How and Where and Who and ShowMe-














  Very best regards, keep safe!

   -- =======Alec Brayalec.bray.2 at gmail.com 
<mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com> Mob:  07789 561 346Tel:  0118 981 7502 --
  Tech1 mailing list
  Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
  http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



    --
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
<http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
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From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Nov 27 03:39:45 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 09:39:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra
In-Reply-To: <49460aea.107f0.17608fd1397.Webtop.116@btinternet.com>
References: <49460aea.107f0.17608fd1397.Webtop.116@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CA2F840A-54D6-48BD-A040-895D3C5D592D@me.com>

There was quite a lengthy period when IMDB listed me as having directed Game of Thrones.  Not my namesake, it was genuinely included in my real entry along with the other shows I worked on.  I sent them several reminders before it got corrected.

However I quite like ?my? plaque in the London Stadium, previously known as the Olympic Stadium.






> On 27 Nov 2020, at 09:16, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> You forgot to mention that IMDb also lists me as 'Art Department'!
> 
> 
> 
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Alec Bray" <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
> To: "ROGER BUNCE" <rogerbunce at btinternet.com>; "Tech Ops" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: Thursday, 26 Nov, 20 At 18:06
> Subject: Cleopatra
> 
>      
> oooops... I have been setting up a new computer, and obviously       got a setting wrong in Thunderbird: an email I tried to send this       morning lost the pictures, so it made no sense.  I'll try again,       this time with piccys.  Many apologies.....
>      
>      
> =========
>      
> 
>      
>      
> Hi Roger,       
>        
>        Some people on Facebook (Gary Critcher, David Brunt) know about       this - but there are lots of us in the Tech Ops group who know       nothing of this mysterious scriptwriter Roger Bunce !!  Could it       be a TV cameraman succumbing to the lure of words without       pictures?  "...A one-time playwright in 1979..."       
>        
>        Tell us more! We (- I -) really want to know all about this!!! My       seven little friends want to know:       
>        
>        What and Why and When       
>        And How and Where and Who and ShowMe-       
>        
>        
>        
> <lobpbmjghhabgfpf.jpg>
>      
> 
>      
>      
> 
>      
>      
> <albekoegkkpmnpdo.jpg>
>      
> 
>      
>      
> 
>      
>      
> <eepoaoijeaomnhdc.jpg>
>      
> 
>      
>      
> 
>      
>      
> <ggijdcnjnhdnggdm.jpg>
> 
>        
>        
>        
>        Very best regards, keep safe! 
>      
>      
> 
>      
>      
> -- 
> =======
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> Mob:  07789 561 346
> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>      
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From Waresound at msn.com  Fri Nov 27 03:51:15 2020
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 09:51:15 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra
In-Reply-To: <55F7A079-C932-4778-B158-D98FB1B3586A@mac.com>
References: <VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<55F7A079-C932-4778-B158-D98FB1B3586A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863C3E6E37E2F1013D18563A7F80@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I wanted to call my younger daughter Tupper, but I was overruled.
N.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 27 Nov 2020, at 00:19, Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com> wrote:

?
Not forgetting Hard Ware, of course!

Mike G

On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:52, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? So was it ?our? Roger Bunce or not? I don?t trust those radio lot - there was another Nick Ware working in BBC radio, a producer, I think. I occasionally used to get his payslips, and his were a lot more than mine. And as if that wasn?t enough, there was also Peter Ware (as you all know): same thing, I sometimes got his! There, I think my middle initial ?P? was the spanner in the works.
Ware isn?t that common a surname, but I?ve always been immensely proud of my ancestor Armitage Ware, who was best known for loitering in the toilet!
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:06, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

oooops... I have been setting up a new computer, and obviously got a setting wrong in Thunderbird: an email I tried to send this morning lost the pictures, so it made no sense.  I'll try again, this time with piccys.  Many apologies..
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 04:13:59 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 10:13:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Here's a new scam
Message-ID: <799207d8-4475-566d-9c23-18c154258231@gmail.com>



I didn't click on the link, but if I can get VirualBox working later I 
might give it a go and see what happens, in the certain knowledge that I 
can just kill the operating system afterwards.

B
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From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Fri Nov 27 04:31:33 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (jpn)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 10:31:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Here's a new scam
In-Reply-To: <799207d8-4475-566d-9c23-18c154258231@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.5.1606473106.765775.tech1_tech-ops.co.uk@tech-ops.co.uk>

My sister in Australia sends me Jackie Lawson greetings cards every year for Xmas and birthday. They are quite cleverly done. Not sure why you would get one from a painting though...John Nottage?Sent from my Galaxy
-------- Original message --------From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 27/11/2020  10:14  (GMT+00:00) To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Here's a new scam 
    
    
    I didn't click on the link, but if I can get VirualBox working later
    I might give it a go and see what happens, in the certain knowledge
    that I can just kill the operating system afterwards.
    
    B
  

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 04:40:54 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 10:40:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Here's a new scam
In-Reply-To: <5fc0d584.1c69fb81.da118.e7c3SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
References: <5fc0d584.1c69fb81.da118.e7c3SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <fac47eed-e1f5-9899-4825-3aaf3ae394d6@gmail.com>


I don't think this one lets you get as far as the painting

B


On 27/11/2020 10:31, jpn wrote:
> My sister in Australia sends me Jackie Lawson greetings cards every 
> year for Xmas and birthday. They are quite cleverly done. Not sure why 
> you would get one from a painting though...
>
> John Nottage
>
>
>
> Sent from my Galaxy
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: 27/11/2020 10:14 (GMT+00:00)
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: [Tech1] Here's a new scam
>
>
>
> I didn't click on the link, but if I can get VirualBox working later I 
> might give it a go and see what happens, in the certain knowledge that 
> I can just kill the operating system afterwards.
>
> B

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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Fri Nov 27 04:54:49 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 10:54:49 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Here's a new scam
In-Reply-To: <1606473113_446@vmC8B74A8-EMAIL1>
References: <1606473113_446@vmC8B74A8-EMAIL1>
Message-ID: <02BA7BABF7914BA280B10D877FA2B037@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

I?ve both sent and received a fair few Jacquie Lawson cards. I?ve never seen a notification in this form so I?d be a bit suspicious ? in fact quite strongly suspicious.

Dave Newbitt.

From: jpn via Tech1 
Sent: Friday, November 27, 2020 10:31 AM
To: Bernard Newnham ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Here's a new scam

My sister in Australia sends me Jackie Lawson greetings cards every year for Xmas and birthday. They are quite cleverly done. Not sure why you would get one from a painting though...

John Nottage 



Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Date: 27/11/2020 10:14 (GMT+00:00) 
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: [Tech1] Here's a new scam 



I didn't click on the link, but if I can get VirualBox working later I might give it a go and see what happens, in the certain knowledge that I can just kill the operating system afterwards.

B



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Nov 27 05:36:49 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 11:36:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Here's a new scam
In-Reply-To: <fac47eed-e1f5-9899-4825-3aaf3ae394d6@gmail.com>
References: <5fc0d584.1c69fb81.da118.e7c3SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com>
	<fac47eed-e1f5-9899-4825-3aaf3ae394d6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5fc0e4d1.1c69fb81.607e5.33ac@mx.google.com>

I use Jacquie Lawson a great deal. Never had a problem, and it?s possible to take out a two year subscription to be able to send cards. They seem to be much appreciated by my recipients.
(Can?t put them up on the mantlepiece, or on ribbons though! *)(* but you could print a screenshot of the final frame, I guess)

They keep a history so one can check if you have sent a person the same card before, and run a reminder service for people?s birthdays.

Mona Lisa ? viewed it for real, when working in Paris, once ? I was surprised at how small it was. 
This quote is taken from a commentary in the Independent:
In the late 20th century, she became a canvas upon which contemporary artists, admen and comedians doodled. Andy Warhol's multiple Mona Lisas, like strips of passport photos, Thirty are Better than One (1963); a Mona Lisa dressed as Mao, Mona Tse Tung by Roman Cieslewicz (1976); naked Mona Lisas; pregnant Mona Lisas; a Mona Lisa made out of toast; Mona Lisas as Jackie Kennedy or Monica Lewinsky; Monty Python's animated Mona Lisa and a disturbingly convincing drawing by the British cartoonist Steve Best in 1992. The cartoon's caption was: "Mona was trying not to smile as she waited for her silent fart to reach Leonardo."
The image of the Mona Lisa has also been hijacked to advertise everything from condoms to horsehair corsets, from oranges to inter-uterine devices. There have been references to her in pop songs from Cole Porter: "You're the Nile, You're the Tower of Pisa; You're the smile on the Mona Lisa"; from Nat King Cole: "Are you warm, are you real, Mona Lisa? Or just a cold and lonely, lovely work of art?".
The full article is here:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-moving-of-the-mona-lisa-530771.html

Also surveyed the Nightwatch in Amsterdam, very large, but I was more taken by a small work ?The Family?, again by Rembrandt, painted lit most brilliantly. No wonder it?s said of the top cinematographers: ?Every frame a Rembrandt?. Went to buy a print at the souvenir shop, but it didn?t have the same electric impact ? trotted back all through the galleries to have another look. I then realised why serious (and rich!) collectors have to have an original. It might have fitted in my pocket, but the alarms would have been deafening!

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 27 November 2020 10:41
To: jpn; Bernard Newnham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Here's a new scam


I don't think this one lets you get as far as the painting

B




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 06:26:38 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 12:26:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] How to be a Granada cameraman
Message-ID: <69dd7e3b-fa5c-fa7a-cafe-0f21759f8237@gmail.com>

Someone posted this on Facebook, from 1962 - 
http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada1.mp4? It's a big file.

There are three others, on lighting, make up, and design, which I can 
upload if anyone is interested.

B
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 09:22:04 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 15:22:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] How to be a Granada cameraman
In-Reply-To: <E2B3FC33-4749-4000-B969-3F2867899E70@sky.com>
References: <69dd7e3b-fa5c-fa7a-cafe-0f21759f8237@gmail.com>
	<E2B3FC33-4749-4000-B969-3F2867899E70@sky.com>
Message-ID: <77ded6cf-f025-b8da-497e-d2b22f3e0b4e@gmail.com>

Ok - the others are

http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada2.mp4
http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada3.mp4
http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada4.mp4

Ar 1521, currently uploading

B




On 27/11/2020 13:23, B Wilkinson wrote:
> Yes please, I think I could identify one of the old stager cameramen 
> on the video who was still working there when I moved from the BBC in 
> 1983. Possibly Eric Hibbert.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 12:27, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ? Someone posted this on Facebook, from 1962 - 
>> http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada1.mp4 It's a big file.
>>
>> There are three others, on lighting, make up, and design, which I can 
>> upload if anyone is interested.
>>
>> B
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Nov 27 10:38:25 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 16:38:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] How to be a Granada cameraman
In-Reply-To: <77ded6cf-f025-b8da-497e-d2b22f3e0b4e@gmail.com>
References: <69dd7e3b-fa5c-fa7a-cafe-0f21759f8237@gmail.com>
	<E2B3FC33-4749-4000-B969-3F2867899E70@sky.com>
	<77ded6cf-f025-b8da-497e-d2b22f3e0b4e@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5fc12b81.1c69fb81.77dfb.a255@mx.google.com>

All the links come up with granada1, Bernie ? what am I doing wrong?
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 27 November 2020 15:22
To: B Wilkinson; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] How to be a Granada cameraman

Ok - the others are

http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada2.mp4
http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada3.mp4
http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada4.mp4

Ar 1521, currently uploading

B



On 27/11/2020 13:23, B Wilkinson wrote:
Yes please, I think I could identify one of the old stager cameramen on the video who was still working there when I moved from the BBC in 1983. Possibly Eric Hibbert.
Sent from my iPad





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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 27 12:07:47 2020
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 18:07:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] How to be a Granada cameraman
In-Reply-To: <5fc12b81.1c69fb81.77dfb.a255@mx.google.com>
References: <69dd7e3b-fa5c-fa7a-cafe-0f21759f8237@gmail.com>
	<E2B3FC33-4749-4000-B969-3F2867899E70@sky.com>
	<77ded6cf-f025-b8da-497e-d2b22f3e0b4e@gmail.com>
	<5fc12b81.1c69fb81.77dfb.a255@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <9DFAABC7-727B-4282-A737-6703EA969805@btinternet.com>

Change the numbers in the web page to 1, 2, or 3, and it works?.simples!
Barry.



On 27 Nov 2020, at 16:38, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> All the links come up with granada1, Bernie ? what am I doing wrong?
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
> Sent: 27 November 2020 15:22
> To: B Wilkinson; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] How to be a Granada cameraman
>  
> Ok - the others are
> 
> http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada2.mp4
> http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada3.mp4
> http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada4.mp4
> 
> Ar 1521, currently uploading
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 27/11/2020 13:23, B Wilkinson wrote:
> Yes please, I think I could identify one of the old stager cameramen on the video who was still working there when I moved from the BBC in 1983. Possibly Eric Hibbert.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 12:15:59 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 18:15:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] How to be a Granada cameraman
In-Reply-To: <9DFAABC7-727B-4282-A737-6703EA969805@btinternet.com>
References: <69dd7e3b-fa5c-fa7a-cafe-0f21759f8237@gmail.com>
	<E2B3FC33-4749-4000-B969-3F2867899E70@sky.com>
	<77ded6cf-f025-b8da-497e-d2b22f3e0b4e@gmail.com>
	<5fc12b81.1c69fb81.77dfb.a255@mx.google.com>
	<9DFAABC7-727B-4282-A737-6703EA969805@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <bfea5993-8d55-0748-af20-324d006e42ec@gmail.com>

Sorry - some email fluke, I don't know what it is, but Barry is right

B


On 27/11/2020 18:07, Barry Bonner wrote:
> Change the numbers in the web page to 1, 2, or 3, and it works?.simples!
> Barry.
>
>
>
> On 27 Nov 2020, at 16:38, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>> All the links come up with granada1, Bernie ? what am I doing wrong?
>> Pat
>> Sent fromMail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>for 
>> Windows 10
>> *From:*Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Sent:*27 November 2020 15:22
>> *To:*B Wilkinson 
>> <mailto:barry-wilkinson at sky.com>;tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
>> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Subject:*Re: [Tech1] How to be a Granada cameraman
>>
>> Ok - the others are
>>
>> http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada2.mp4 
>> <http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada1.mp4>
>> http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada3.mp4 
>> <http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada1.mp4>
>> http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada4.mp4 
>> <http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/granada1.mp4>
>>
>> Ar 1521, currently uploading
>>
>> B
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27/11/2020 13:23, B Wilkinson wrote:
>>
>>     Yes please, I think I could identify one of the old stager
>>     cameramen on the video who was still working there when I moved
>>     from the BBC in 1983. Possibly Eric Hibbert.
>>
>>     Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
>> <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>

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From brian.curtis.bluesky at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 12:41:45 2020
From: brian.curtis.bluesky at gmail.com (Brian Curtis)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 18:41:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra
In-Reply-To: <55F7A079-C932-4778-B158-D98FB1B3586A@mac.com>
References: <VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<55F7A079-C932-4778-B158-D98FB1B3586A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAGVa-QcrBDCXZFahFh9gm21qExJpJSTok6SvGG0f8QOhTJ5XYw@mail.gmail.com>

Or even his younger brother Soft Ware!

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 at 00:20, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Not forgetting Hard Ware, of course!
>
> Mike G
>
> On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:52, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ? So was it ?our? Roger Bunce or not? I don?t trust those radio lot -
> there was another Nick Ware working in BBC radio, a producer, I think. I
> occasionally used to get his payslips, and his were a lot more than mine.
> And as if that wasn?t enough, there was also Peter Ware (as you all know):
> same thing, I sometimes got his! There, I think my middle initial ?P? was
> the spanner in the works.
> Ware isn?t that common a surname, but I?ve always been immensely proud of
> my ancestor Armitage Ware, who was best known for loitering in the toilet!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
> On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:06, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> oooops... I have been setting up a new computer, and obviously got a
> setting wrong in Thunderbird: an email I tried to send this morning lost
> the pictures, so it made no sense.  I'll try again, this time with piccys.
> Many apologies.....
>
> =========
>
>
> Hi Roger,
>
> Some people on Facebook (Gary Critcher, David Brunt) know about this - but
> there are lots of us in the Tech Ops group who know nothing of this
> mysterious scriptwriter Roger Bunce !!  Could it be a TV cameraman
> succumbing to the lure of words without pictures?  "...A one-time
> playwright in 1979..."
>
> Tell us more! We (- I -) really want to know all about this!!! My seven
> little friends want to know:
>
> What and Why and When
> And How and Where and Who and ShowMe-
>
>
> <lobpbmjghhabgfpf.jpg>
>
>
>
> <albekoegkkpmnpdo.jpg>
>
>
>
> <eepoaoijeaomnhdc.jpg>
>
>
>
> <ggijdcnjnhdnggdm.jpg>
>
>
>
>
> Very best regards, keep safe!
>
>
> --
> =======
>
> Alec Bray
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> Mob:  07789 561 346
> Tel:  0118 981 7502
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From Waresound at msn.com  Fri Nov 27 13:35:29 2020
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 19:35:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra (now School report)
In-Reply-To: <CAGVa-QcrBDCXZFahFh9gm21qExJpJSTok6SvGG0f8QOhTJ5XYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<55F7A079-C932-4778-B158-D98FB1B3586A@mac.com>,
	<CAGVa-QcrBDCXZFahFh9gm21qExJpJSTok6SvGG0f8QOhTJ5XYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB086314D9BF6FD0AC74F98ADEA7F80@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

My favourite end of term Prep school report (from the days when teachers could say whatever they wanted) was ?Pottery Ware has a glazed look: so has Nicolas Ware!?
I still have it tucked away somewhere, I?m that proud of it!

OK everyone, what was the most appropriate/inappropriate school report you got?
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 27 Nov 2020, at 18:41, Brian Curtis <brian.curtis.bluesky at gmail.com> wrote:

?
Or even his younger brother Soft Ware!

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 at 00:20, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
Not forgetting Hard Ware, of course!

Mike G

On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:52, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

? So was it ?our? Roger Bunce or not? I don?t trust those radio lot - there was another Nick Ware working in BBC radio, a producer, I think. I occasionally used to get his payslips, and his were a lot more than mine. And as if that wasn?t enough, there was also Peter Ware (as you all know): same thing, I sometimes got his! There, I think my middle initial ?P? was the spanner in the works.
Ware isn?t that common a surname, but I?ve always been immensely proud of my ancestor Armitage Ware, who was best known for loitering in the toilet!
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

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From techtone at protonmail.com  Fri Nov 27 14:27:34 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 20:27:34 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
In-Reply-To: <n8YqL0Voi9hD4URwo1ALAjDOX8BDhMT3-jgkN9clyGBMMB_axXkLSonW7a5-qtl9hVGAcsTACoYsFR95f3RrpLfqlZEBvbovfC8zML0aBjk=@protonmail.com>
References: <bnGRPu9lO-WFyRAxtKdLuoo5x1vP-FCJUThgEQP9_N_dX-E9p10sGikYdcVs27WMQrwrAzz1BytfWyzccdWYuzQc6F1NQoqS2drbXzYnfqU=@protonmail.com>
	<79374ecd-494b-b44c-c00a-1c953dd199ff@gmail.com>
	<n8YqL0Voi9hD4URwo1ALAjDOX8BDhMT3-jgkN9clyGBMMB_axXkLSonW7a5-qtl9hVGAcsTACoYsFR95f3RrpLfqlZEBvbovfC8zML0aBjk=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <ViT5TEI_m_-bLdJZYNhgbq6ms0LP3sfQ5Dd-7vBqhzOj6qwLt-tie3nKBc7HnfqdK1CqwY4z6_27AVc9rJBy3ZI5CC4J39SYcEVHvfXTcJs=@protonmail.com>

We may have got it semi-sorted fairly simply with two domestic radiant heaters on the floor. Heather dressed for the outdoors with wooly hat and heavy coat, standing at her easel, told me that there was just about enough warmth to keep going, although her hands were freezing. She's wondering if she can cut the fingertips off a pair of gloves for working in the studio.

Further suggestions much appreciated,

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Nov 27 14:49:14 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 20:49:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
In-Reply-To: <ViT5TEI_m_-bLdJZYNhgbq6ms0LP3sfQ5Dd-7vBqhzOj6qwLt-tie3nKBc7HnfqdK1CqwY4z6_27AVc9rJBy3ZI5CC4J39SYcEVHvfXTcJs=@protonmail.com>
References: <bnGRPu9lO-WFyRAxtKdLuoo5x1vP-FCJUThgEQP9_N_dX-E9p10sGikYdcVs27WMQrwrAzz1BytfWyzccdWYuzQc6F1NQoqS2drbXzYnfqU=@protonmail.com>
	<79374ecd-494b-b44c-c00a-1c953dd199ff@gmail.com>
	<n8YqL0Voi9hD4URwo1ALAjDOX8BDhMT3-jgkN9clyGBMMB_axXkLSonW7a5-qtl9hVGAcsTACoYsFR95f3RrpLfqlZEBvbovfC8zML0aBjk=@protonmail.com>
	<ViT5TEI_m_-bLdJZYNhgbq6ms0LP3sfQ5Dd-7vBqhzOj6qwLt-tie3nKBc7HnfqdK1CqwY4z6_27AVc9rJBy3ZI5CC4J39SYcEVHvfXTcJs=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <5fc1664a.1c69fb81.aa424.8014@mx.google.com>

Try this:
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Space+heaters

Or have you got space to install a wood burning stove?
My Somerset friend had one installed in his workshop.
Obviously needs a supply of wood, have you got a nearby forest to nick fallen branches from?
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: techtone via Tech1
Sent: 27 November 2020 20:27
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Radiant heaters

We may have got it semi-sorted fairly simply with two domestic radiant heaters on the floor. Heather dressed for the outdoors with wooly hat and heavy coat, standing at her easel, told me that there was just about enough warmth to keep going, although her hands were freezing. She's wondering if she can cut the fingertips off a pair of gloves for working in the studio.

Further suggestions much appreciated,

TeaTeaFN - Tony


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.?




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From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Nov 27 15:04:33 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 21:04:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
In-Reply-To: <5fc1664a.1c69fb81.aa424.8014@mx.google.com>
References: <5fc1664a.1c69fb81.aa424.8014@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <F6F1830D-98CA-4042-A462-C56801024192@me.com>

I second the suggestion of a wood burning stove.  A friend of mine has a small wood burner in his workshop.  It keeps the place ridiculously warm, has a flat area on top for boiling a kettle and willingly devours wood scraps while he?s doing woodwork, or burns logs at other times.

Alan Taylor

> On 27 Nov 2020, at 20:49, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Try this:
> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Space+heaters
>  
> Or have you got space to install a wood burning stove?
> My Somerset friend had one installed in his workshop.
> Obviously needs a supply of wood, have you got a nearby forest to nick fallen branches from?
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: techtone via Tech1
> Sent: 27 November 2020 20:27
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
>  
> We may have got it semi-sorted fairly simply with two domestic radiant heaters on the floor. Heather dressed for the outdoors with wooly hat and heavy coat, standing at her easel, told me that there was just about enough warmth to keep going, although her hands were freezing. She's wondering if she can cut the fingertips off a pair of gloves for working in the studio.
>  
> Further suggestions much appreciated,
>  
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>  
>  
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. 
>  
>  
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 15:38:20 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 21:38:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: MCR21 Newsletter November 2020
In-Reply-To: <24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195.27b31bf3ae.20201127160632.7edefa5459.f706a52d@mail94.suw91.mcdlv.net>
References: <24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195.27b31bf3ae.20201127160632.7edefa5459.f706a52d@mail94.suw91.mcdlv.net>
Message-ID: <a3865049-f7b3-e529-a0e3-17b94ebaae74@gmail.com>




-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	MCR21 Newsletter November 2020
Date: 	Fri, 27 Nov 2020 16:06:37 +0000
From: 	Nick <nick at mcr21.org.uk>
Reply-To: 	Nick <nick at mcr21.org.uk>
To: 	Bernard <bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com>



MCR21 Newsletter November 2020


  MCR21 PROJECT


  NEWSLETTER

NOVEMBER 2020

View in your browser 
<https://mailchi.mp/379421a04fa9/mcr21-newsletter-november-2020?e=27b31bf3ae> 




If you have received this newsletter from a colleague, or another 
organisation, and you would like to receive the newsletter direct, 
please get in touch by pressing the button below


Contact MCR21 
<mailto:nick at mcr21.org.uk?subject=Newsletter&body=Please%20add%20me%20to%20the%20newsletter%20list.%0AName%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20Email> 





*PROGRESS AT CHILTERN AUTOMOTIVE*
(formerly Ward Jones Commercials)

Perhaps the best way of showing the progress of the vehicle restoration 
is through a series of photographs.
The Trustees of the Broadcast Television Techology Trust would like to 
thank James Thorpe, director of Chiltern Automotive, for his dedication 
to the MCR21 Project through very difficult times.

Volunteer, David Thompson, shows off the new paintwork


Harry Coventry, senior cameraman on MCR21 in the 1960s,
inspects the restoration work


With the restoration of the vehicle nearly complete, it will soon be 
time to start re-installing the broadcast equipment.

*THE STORY OF LO21*


 ????????? 1976 - LO21 in Cherbourg for a /Seaside Special /programme.

During 1969 MCR21 was converted from a 4-camera monochrome unit to a 
2-camera colour unit taking on the designation, LO21, with the LO 
standing for London. After? LO21 finished service with the BBC in 1977, 
there were another three units which were given the number LO21. These 
units, like the first LO21 were smaller units compared with the 
multi-camera mobile control rooms which were based at the BBC's London 
OB base,? Kendal Avenue.
In 1969, MCR21 was equipped with two Philips PC60 cameras that had come 
from the Presentation A studio at Television Centre when it became known 
as LO21.? The PC60s were replaced with two EMI 2001 cameras, making it 
compatible with the main fleet based at Kendal Avenue.

 ?? ? ? ?? ? Below left? an EMI 2001 camera?? Below right a PC60 camera


The second incarnation of LO21 was bit of mystery OB unit. Originally 
called? the 'Twin Channel Unit' witth the reg. no. PYL 697R, which 
suggests that it was in service with the BBC by 1976. That is just 
around the time the original LO21 was taken out of service. So far no 
photos of this second LO21 have been discovered.

By early 1981, the third LO21 had arrived at Kendal Avenue. This unit 
was originally equipped with two LDK 5 cameras, and again become a 
useful addition to the fleet, covering small OBs or when extra cameras 
were needed for very large and complex OBs

The third LO21 at Putney - helping out with the coverage of the Boat Race

Below right? - The same LO21 at Admiralty Gate for the wedding of Prince 
Charles and Diana
Below left -? a Philips LDK 5 - these were later replaced by a number of 
smaller cameras.

At the beginning of the 1990s, Sony built five mobile control rooms for 
the BBC - the type 7s. Two units were allocated to Kendal Avenue with 
one of them took on the designation LO21, the fourth in the series. 
These units were equipped with Sony 370 cameras - originally four but 
could handle six cameras - allowing the unit to be used on quite complex 
outside broadcasts.

Information - Brian Summers


*RADIO LINKS ? A FORGOTTEN ARMY*
By Philip Upton

Everyone with an interest in Outside Broadcasting is aware of the 
existence of Mobile Control Rooms, of which MCR21 currently being 
restored, is a prime example.? What seems to have been forgotten is how 
the 'output' (i.e. the pictures and sound, as selected by the Director 
in the MCR) found its way into the BBC national network and thence to 
the transmitting stations for broadcast. Sound was usually sent via Post 
Office lines, which were more or less telephone lines suitably tweaked 
(equalised) to provide better quality. (Get used to the expression PO as 
it features a lot in this article. We know it now as BT but in those far 
off days, it was indeed the PO, a government department, which delivered 
national communications, along with letters and parcels!)

The vision signal from the MCR was a different matter.? In these days of 
umpteen video circuits whizzing round the world in digital form via 
optical fibres and satellites, it is often forgotten that the 
transmission of a single 405 line black and white TV signal, in analogue 
form, back in those days was a formidable task. ?It was even trickier 
for 625-line colour.

Before we get on to OB signals it is worth reminding ourselves that 
video circuits generally were few and far between, especially those 
incoming to TV Centre for onward transmission, known as ?Contribution 
Circuits?. There was, for example, a single circuit running down the 
spine of the UK, starting in Aberdeen I think but which routed through 
BBC centres such as Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester and Birmingham.? The 
circuit was hired from the PO and cost a fortune. Other regional centres 
had similar arrangements. As an aside, for those who remember such 
things, and pardon the jargon, the source Synchronising Pulse Generator 
 ?had to be phased or ?Genlocked? to the Television Centre SPG to 
prevent a frame-roll when presentation cut to the next source.? This 
applied to all sources outside TVC, be it a regional studio or an OB.? 
(A further aside - TVC had a huge network of video cables going up and 
down between floors so that video from all sources was synchronously 
timed on arrival at the central apparatus room).

So how did the MCR video get to TV centre? Many of the regularly used OB 
locations in the central London area had access to cables, but it was a 
different story for OBs originating elsewhere and the usual method was 
the establishment of a temporary Radio Link using a dedicated fleet of 
vehicles and extending towers.? The very earliest links used Band 1 
frequencies - large Yagi aerials similar to those on people?s houses, 
used for picking up broadcast TV.? It was soon realised that microwave 
frequencies (known universally as SHF) were more appropriate, bearing in 
mind the relatively large bandwidth an analogue video signal occupies 
and, by international agreement, a group of frequencies, known as ?the 
private user band? was allocated. Initially this was around 4GHz but 
later the 7GHz band was used widely and eventually an 11GHz slot was 
allocated.

So, what happened on the ground?? During the OB rig, at some point, one 
of the OB crew would present two co-axial cables to a nearby 'Links 
Van'. ?These carried the MCR video output, two being offered as main and 
standby. These were plugged into sockets in the Links Van and via 
various monitoring and switching arrangements, the video modulated an 
SHF transmitter, the business end of which was mounted behind a dish 
aerial usually 4ft in diameter and sometimes mounted on a tripod on the 
van roof.? More often, bearing in mind that many OB?s originated in 
built-up areas, the transmitter and dish were mounted on an extending 
tower. Most of these 'Eagle Towers' were made by Eagle Engineering of 
Warwick.? They were 60ft high and were the backbone of OB Links for 
years.? There were two 100ft Merryweather fire escape ladders in the 
London OB fleet.? They were of pre-WW2 design and could only carry a 
small dish, 2ft in diameter. These ladders were replaced by 100ft Eagle 
Towers in the early 1970?s which carried a much larger head-load, up to 
two 4ft diameter dishes.

Above- Two of the original Eagle Towers which could reach. The right 
hand picture, and the one below, show the 1970s Eagle tower, which 
extended to 100t high.

The links unit at the OB point was always called 'The Starter'. 
Sometimes it would fire its signals direct to a similar dish with an SHF 
receiver attached and mounted on another links van.? This would decode 
the SHF back to video which could be fed into an access point on the BBC 
contribution network. Such a link was described as a single 'hop' and 
although occasionally used, a direct line of sight from Starter to the 
final Receiver was often not available.? In that case one or more 
'mid-points' had to be established on suitably located hill-tops.? At a 
mid-point two dishes were needed, a receiver and transmitter to relay 
the SHF signal to the final receiving van located at the eventual 
network access point. Two hop circuits were very common but occasionally 
long routes required several hops.

There was a major Links Unit based in London (first at Wembley, then at 
the West Acton OB base) and each regional OB base had a unit each with 
four Links Vans and one Eagle Tower.? (These were at Bristol, Cardiff, 
Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow and Belfast).? In practice each unit 
acquired, through experience, a number of favourite mid-point locations, 
but when a new OB location came along a new route had to be worked out 
and it was always tested by setting up the proposed circuit to prove its 
performance, sometimes weeks before the OB date.

Final receiving points where the incoming signal could be injected into 
the BBC contribution network were many and varied, but one always hoped 
that the final hop could be routed to a main BBC broadcast transmitter.? 
Each of the principal masts had a remotely steerable SHF dish at its 
summit, connected to a permanent receiver in the transmitter hall. They 
were known as Mast Head Receivers (MHR?s).? The beauty of this 
arrangement was that the final hop could be very long due to the height 
of the receiving dish, and the system removed the need for a links van 
at the reception point. At each of these broadcast transmitter sites 
there was, of course, an incoming vision feed of 'Network' for the 
broadcast signal but it was usually coupled with a circuit in the 
opposite direction for contributions. ?These were usually PO circuits, 
although there were a few quirks in certain parts of the country.? The 
MHR?s had another function in many locations, receiving the video output 
from secondary regional studios, such as Southampton and Plymouth, each 
of which had an OB SHF transmitter on the roof.? (All my operational 
experience was in West Region, before I went to TPID to work on fixed 
links, new radio links vehicles and extending towers)

If a route to an MHR was not feasible another injection point was 
needed. ?London bound PO circuits went through repeaters at telephone 
exchanges, and could be intercepted.? In Bristol we rented a room at the 
very summit of a decorative turret which formed part of a Bristol 
University building known as 'The Royal Fort'. We used to operate a very 
long distance two-hop link from the Shropshire area, i.e. the 'Starter' 
at the OB location, a 'Mid-point' on the Worcester Beacon on the Malvern 
Hills, final Receiver at Royal Fort, then a PO co-axial cable into 
Bristol BBC switching centre, thence via the Bristol permanent 
contribution circuit to TVC.

There was also a major receiving station at Swains Lane in Highgate with 
permanent dishes on a small mast which was, I believe, originally built 
by the RAF.? A vision circuit from Alexandra Palace to London switching 
centre at BH had a repeater amplifier housed there and so the OB signals 
could be injected.

Setting up these circuits was a big undertaking and offered a greatly 
varied and adventurous life. Mid-points could be very challenging, 
requiring the links van and a long wheelbase Land Rover each towing a 
diesel generator to provide (main and standby) power. Access could be 
tricky, with steep climbs and muddy tracks. Originally, domestic 
facilities in the links vans (you could be there for several days) 
consisted of an electric kettle and toilet facilities were in the 
nearest bush.
But the views were, by definition, tremendous and I personally never 
lost the thrill when London Presentation announced to the nation that 
the next programme would be 'our? OB and the video passing through our 
van ?popped up on our domestic telly in the links van.

In the late 1960?s a fashion developed for contest programmes involving 
teams from different parts of the country, notably 'Come Dancing' (No! 
Not Strictly!) and 'Top of the Form' ? a contest between schools. If 
these were live then each end of the programme had its own OB link as 
usual, and each team could observe the opposition by watching TV on a 
domestic telly (as broadcast). However, at that time video recording was 
maturing and some producers elected to record the programme.? This 
involved setting up a 'reverse vision circuit' so that each team could 
see their competitors. These could be a nightmare ? MHR?s could not 
transmit and occasionally the outbound and inbound routes had to be 
quite different.? Mid points involved two links vans and four dishes. 
Often there were two Eagle towers at the starter. Imagine a contest 
between schools in, say, Aberdeen and Plymouth and the number of hops, 
hill-tops and dishes that might involve. (Although of course, the 
backbone of the circuit would be one of the fixed contribution 
routes).?? Links units also had a few peripheral duties such as OB radio 
mikes and we had a VHF short range capability for links from boats and 
moving vehicles ? but that?s another story.

I was project manager for the design of a new range of links vehicles 
introduced in the late 1960s. It coincided with introduction of the 
first 'solid state' SHF equipment which could be battery powered, 
reducing reliance on a diesel generator. I also introduced a wash-basin 
and bottled gas heating.? (What a hornet?s nest that stirred up with the 
BBC insurance manager !) Incorporating a 'two room' layout to keep the 
domestic and technical area clean and separate from the storage of 
cables, dishes and tripods, it was not a popular design.? I also 
produced the two 100ft Eagle towers mentioned earlier which replaced the 
ageing Merryweather fire escape ladders.

Eventually, all this became totally redundant with the advent of digits 
and the resultant availability of communication satellites and optical 
fibre circuits.? We are all familiar now with the small 'Satellite 
Trucks' with a single remotely controlled dish on the roof.? The compact 
design of modern electronics and above all the digital process made 
these possible.? OB planners and news departments can now order these 
circuits, often at very short notice, ?from a multiplicity of operators 
via a few clicks on a website.

Gone are the weeks of planning, pouring over Ordnance Survey maps, muddy 
wellies, temperamental diesel generators and mislaid van keys and all 
the other the other things which had to be solved so that the licence 
payers could watch their favourite sport, party political conferences 
and the rest. I loved it !

*TELEPHONE LINE-MICROWAVE- COAX SATTELITE-FIBRE*
How did? BBC TV OBs get their pictures and sound
back to the Transmission Suite?
Nick Gilbey
with information and photos from Mike Steed, Mike Jordan,Phil Upton and 
Dan Cranefield

This map shows the original cable (the black line) which was laid in 
1936 in time for the coronation of George VI in April the following 
year. In simple terms, it was a dedicated telephone line which went to 
Broadcasting House then on to Alexandra Palace. The BBC just televised 
the Coronation Procession at Hyde Park Corner. The BBC did have their 
transmitter van and aeriel tower as backup should the landline failed. 
Sending signals back to Alexandra Palace did have a disadvantage, in 
that the transmitter at A.P. could affect the incoming signal. This was 
solved by setting up a receiving station at Swains Lane in Highgate, 
just a few miles away from A.P.? Swains Lane remained a receiving point 
for television outside broadcasts well in the 1990s

Inside Swains Lane in 2019 when the decommissioning had started.

The photo shows the control desk, designed by BBC engineering project 
manager, Mike Steed, in about 1980. At that time, Swains Lane was 
becoming very busy handling more and more feeds from outside broadcasts 
- sometimes taking in four feeds simultaneously from around the London 
area. This control desk replaced one that had been installed a decade 
earlier by the then project manager, Philip Upton.

You can see the five receiving dishes on the tower - one on the very top 
and four in between the two static dishes. The OB receiving dishes could 
be rotated through 360 degrees from the control room below.

In central London there was no need to use a microwave link from most 
locations. In the 1960s the Post Office put in a comprehensive network 
of coaxial cables which replaced the telephone lines.

Above - a map showing the connections to the London coaxial cable.
Below - the connection at Downing Street

In 1975 the BBC used a satellite link to get pictures back from an 
outside broadcast covering a mountain climb at Glencoe in Scotland. It 
was an experiment so there was? also? a microwave link which had many 
mid-point to get the pictures back to base. It would be nearly another 
twenty years before satellite trucks? became the norm for links between 
outside broadcasts and the studio base.

Satellite city in 2011 at Buckingham Palace for Prince William and 
Kate's marriage. Apart from a few local microwave links to remote 
cameras, the BBC, who were the host broadcaster, used fibre cable to 
connect the outside broadcast units which lined the procession route.
The satellite trucks were used for the national and international news 
networks which had descended on London for the wedding.

While satellite communication links from outside broadcasts continued to 
grow during the 1990s and 2000s, microwave links were still being used 
to connect remote cameras back to the mobile contol rooms. Below is a 
comms diagram for the links used by the BBC outside broadcast unit which 
covered the arrival in February 2005 of Ellen MacArthur's yacht at 
Falmouth, after her epic
Round the World single-handed sailing voyage.

The remote unit at Pendennis Point with the micrwave, satellite and UHF 
links

Above - A Post Office Television Outside Broadcast Service van. These 
vans were seen at nearly every television OB in central London, 
connecting the outside broadcast to the cable network under the streets 
of the city.

Below? 2014 -? a one-day cricket match broadcast by Sky in Bristol
This time a BT van connects the output from the CTV? outside broadcast 
unit to the fibre cable network and, using a dedicated IP address, gets 
the signal back to Sky HQ at Isleworth

ITV also used Post Office cables under the streets of London to connect 
to their transmission suites. For Rediffuion, this was in their studio 
complex in Kingsway, Holborn. The photo above shows an ATV control room 
next to the Post Office van. For Sir Winston Churchill's Funeral, ITV's 
coverage was directed from Studio 9 at Kingsway. Extra lines had to be 
installed by the Post Office along the procession route in order to 
connect the many ITV mobile control rooms back to the studio.

For OBs away from central London, Rediffusion had a fleet of four short 
wheelbase landrovers, which carried microwave equipment in order to 
transmit the signals back to a receiving dish on top of a water tower at 
Campden Hill near Notting Hill Gate - not quite as comprehensive as the 
facility, which the BBC had at Swains Lane



*MCR21 -? THE VISION MIXER*
Brian Summers

The BBC designed this mixer in 1962 for installation into the ten new 
Pye TVT built 4-camera units MCRs 19 to 28, which were delivered to the 
BBC between 1963 and 1964. The vision mixer has ten input channels, six 
are for synchronous sources and four can be switched to sync or 
non-sync. Cuts, mixes, wipes, inserts, and split fader operations are 
possible.For the first time this is a fully solid state mixer using 
transistors and diodes as the switching elements. Relays and solenoids 
are used for the bulk of the controlling logic. The design was? advanced 
for the time, other manufacturerswere still using relays for all the 
switching elements. The design was adapted for colour working and was 
installed in a further twelve BBC outside broadcast mobile control 
rooms. The mixer was also used in many studio installations including 
the BBC News studios at Television Centre.

The vision mixer in the BBC Type 2 Colour Mobile Control Room, which was 
in service with the BBC until the early 1980s. Now owned and beautifully 
restored by Steve Harris. www.vintageradio.co.uk


*VOLUNTEERING*
Paul Read continues his work restoring the monitors which will be 
installed in MCR21

Watch Paul's Video 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=a20cc140ff&e=27b31bf3ae> 


Watch Paul's Next Video 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=73294d1241&e=27b31bf3ae> 



*YOUR SUPPORT*
We have received generous donations from individuals and companies.
The restoration still has a long way to go before it is complete. MCR21 
will then have a role in explaining the technology used in the broadcast 
television industry. Our aim is to attract young people into the 
technology side of the industry.

We would welcome supporters of the MCR21 to become

/Friends of the MCR21 Project/

by setting up a monthly standing order of ?5 ?10 ?15 or ?20

As well as receiving our quarterly newsletter, Friends will also get 
regular progress reports and invitations
to our operational and launch days.
Please do contact us
for our bank details
brian at mcr21.org.uk? - nick at mcr21.org.uk
or telephone Nick 07831 219957

If you would kindly be willing be make a single donation the button 
below will take you to our donation page

DONATE 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=72e1119bfc&e=27b31bf3ae> 


Newsletter compiled and edited by Nick Gilbey
Thank you to William Brown, Andrew Brown, Harry Coventry, Steve Harris, 
Paul Read, Ian Hayes, Rob Burn, Philip Upton and Brian Summers for 
information, photos and help.

Newsletter August 2020 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=f13d0ba5aa&e=27b31bf3ae> 


Newsletter May 2020 
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Newsletter March 2020 
<https://mcr21.us19.list-manage.com/track/click?u=24da6d5790bf363b61ed2e195&id=bbd1dc915b&e=27b31bf3ae> 


Newsletter January 2020 
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/Copyright ? November 2020 Broadcast Television Technology Trust,
All rights reserved./
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MCR21 ? The Abbots House ? The Street ? Charmouth, Dorset DT6 6QF ? 
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From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Nov 27 16:50:08 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 22:50:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
In-Reply-To: <6F50E6B2-97C9-4B6F-829E-FB9B9C4443BB@sky.com>
References: <6F50E6B2-97C9-4B6F-829E-FB9B9C4443BB@sky.com>
Message-ID: <FBC619D8-E292-4502-8399-ACF3EFA40182@me.com>

We had a replacement wood burner installed last year. The burner is multifuel, but the installer needed to know whether we would be burning smokeless fuel  or just wood.  Apparently you need a higher grade of stainless steel flue if burning solid fuel. It might not be an issue if you only have a few feet of chimney in a shed, but it gets expensive if you?re lining a tall chimney.

Coincidentally, the penguin connection is also there because the burner we installed is made by a Welsh company called Chilli Penguin.  We?re  very pleased with it too. 

Alan Taylor



> On 27 Nov 2020, at 22:28, B Wilkinson <barry-wilkinson at sky.com> wrote:
> 
> ?If you get a multi fuel version you could also burn smokeless fuel which creates more heat and lasts longer ,but may kill penguins and polar bears?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 21:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> I second the suggestion of a wood burning stove.  A friend of mine has a small wood burner in his workshop.  It keeps the place ridiculously warm, has a flat area on top for boiling a kettle and willingly devours wood scraps while he?s doing woodwork, or burns logs at other times.
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>>>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 20:49, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ?
>>> Try this:
>>> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Space+heaters
>>>  
>>> Or have you got space to install a wood burning stove?
>>> My Somerset friend had one installed in his workshop.
>>> Obviously needs a supply of wood, have you got a nearby forest to nick fallen branches from?
>>> Pat
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>  
>>> From: techtone via Tech1
>>> Sent: 27 November 2020 20:27
>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
>>>  
>>> We may have got it semi-sorted fairly simply with two domestic radiant heaters on the floor. Heather dressed for the outdoors with wooly hat and heavy coat, standing at her easel, told me that there was just about enough warmth to keep going, although her hands were freezing. She's wondering if she can cut the fingertips off a pair of gloves for working in the studio.
>>>  
>>> Further suggestions much appreciated,
>>>  
>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. 
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  	
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 27 17:14:32 2020
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 23:14:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra (now School report)
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB086314D9BF6FD0AC74F98ADEA7F80@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<55F7A079-C932-4778-B158-D98FB1B3586A@mac.com>,
	<CAGVa-QcrBDCXZFahFh9gm21qExJpJSTok6SvGG0f8QOhTJ5XYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<VE1P189MB086314D9BF6FD0AC74F98ADEA7F80@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <ABF02081-D16E-4057-AEC4-2DA12BD8973F@btinternet.com>

This from my RI teacher when I was 14???"Good term?s attendance but Barry has serious doubts about the existence of God? (No change there then!)
Barry.



On 27 Nov 2020, at 19:35, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> My favourite end of term Prep school report (from the days when teachers could say whatever they wanted) was ?Pottery Ware has a glazed look: so has Nicolas Ware!?
> I still have it tucked away somewhere, I?m that proud of it!
> 
> OK everyone, what was the most appropriate/inappropriate school report you got?
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 18:41, Brian Curtis <brian.curtis.bluesky at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> Or even his younger brother Soft Ware!
>> 
>> On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 at 00:20, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Not forgetting Hard Ware, of course!
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>>> On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:52, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ? So was it ?our? Roger Bunce or not? I don?t trust those radio lot - there was another Nick Ware working in BBC radio, a producer, I think. I occasionally used to get his payslips, and his were a lot more than mine. And as if that wasn?t enough, there was also Peter Ware (as you all know): same thing, I sometimes got his! There, I think my middle initial ?P? was the spanner in the works.
>>> Ware isn?t that common a surname, but I?ve always been immensely proud of my ancestor Armitage Ware, who was best known for loitering in the toilet!
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nick.
>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Nov 27 17:50:19 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 23:50:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wood burners
In-Reply-To: <FBC619D8-E292-4502-8399-ACF3EFA40182@me.com>
References: <6F50E6B2-97C9-4B6F-829E-FB9B9C4443BB@sky.com>
	<FBC619D8-E292-4502-8399-ACF3EFA40182@me.com>
Message-ID: <23a64375-3c7a-0b9c-301a-e41834584288@btinternet.com>

Can some clever-clogs please explain why it is considered OK to have a 
log burner and not a coal fire? Surely they it is the same fuel but a 
few million years apart! My wife watches 'Escape to the Country' every 
afternoon and the vast majority of house hunters want acres of land, no 
neighbours, an AGA in the kitchen/diner, and a wood burner in the 
lounge! From an old age POV I want access to the local surgery, dentist, 
transport, and shops! I have got all of that so I won't be moving 
anywhere soon, except 6 feet downwards! Cheers, Dave.

On 27/11/2020 22:50, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> We had a replacement wood burner installed last year. The burner is 
> multifuel, but the installer needed to know whether we would be 
> burning smokeless fuel ?or just wood. ?Apparently you need a higher 
> grade of stainless steel flue if burning solid fuel. It might not be 
> an issue if you only have a few feet of chimney in a shed, but it gets 
> expensive if you?re lining a tall chimney.
>
> Coincidentally, the penguin connection is also there because the 
> burner we installed is made by a Welsh company called Chilli Penguin. 
> ?We?re ?very pleased with it too.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 22:28, B Wilkinson <barry-wilkinson at sky.com> wrote:
>>
>> ? If you get a multi fuel version you could also burn smokeless fuel 
>> which creates more heat and lasts longer ,but may kill penguins and 
>> polar bears?
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 21:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?
>>> I second the suggestion of a wood burning stove. ?A friend of mine 
>>> has a small wood burner in his workshop. ?It keeps the place 
>>> ridiculously warm, has a flat area on top for boiling a kettle and 
>>> willingly devours wood scraps while he?s doing woodwork, or burns 
>>> logs at other times.
>>>
>>> Alan Taylor
>>>
>>>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 20:49, patheigham via Tech1 
>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> Try this:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Space+heaters 
>>>> <https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Space+heaters>
>>>>
>>>> Or have you got space to install a wood burning stove?
>>>>
>>>> My Somerset friend had one installed in his workshop.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously needs a supply of wood, have you got a nearby forest to 
>>>> nick fallen branches from?
>>>>
>>>> Pat
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
>>>> Windows 10
>>>>
>>>> *From: *techtone via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> *Sent: *27 November 2020 20:27
>>>> *Cc: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
>>>>
>>>> We may have got it semi-sorted fairly simply with two domestic 
>>>> radiant heaters on the floor. Heather dressed for the outdoors with 
>>>> wooly hat and heavy coat, standing at her easel, told me that there 
>>>> was just about enough warmth to keep going, although her hands were 
>>>> freezing. She's wondering if she can cut the fingertips off a pair 
>>>> of gloves for working in the studio.
>>>>
>>>> Further suggestions much appreciated,
>>>>
>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>>
>>>> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>>>>
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov 28 01:14:09 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 07:14:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wood burners
In-Reply-To: <23a64375-3c7a-0b9c-301a-e41834584288@btinternet.com>
References: <23a64375-3c7a-0b9c-301a-e41834584288@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <0022F7A3-EA41-4D78-8497-A4A5C4CC05B8@me.com>

The basic idea is that trees grow and absorb CO2 from the atmosphere. Unless it?s preserved in some way which locks up that CO2, the wood eventually releases that CO2, either by combustion or decay. The cycle is sustainable.

Coal absorbed it?s CO2 from the atmosphere millions of years ago when it was trees.  If you dig it up and burn it, mankind  only experiences the part of the cycle where the CO2 which was locked up in it enters our atmosphere, so there is a net increase to our CO2 without a corresponding absorption.

It?s a lot more complex than that and of course there is also the fact that burning wood gives off particulates, which is a problem in cities, but less so in the countryside.  

I?m very impressed with our new wood burner.  When we moved in, there was a wood burner which was little more than a bonfire in a box with a window.  The new one burns the logs in a much better fashion.  There is very obvious  gasification of the logs as they burn with large, lazy flames due to the way the airflow is controlled.  If we light it at 16:00, it will only need one log, with another one going in at around 19:00 and the room is still toasty in the morning. If there is a power cut ( overhead power cables, so not unusual ), we can cook or boil water on top of the log burner.

There is no gas supply and the electricity supply to our village would not currently ( see what I did there? ) support more than a small proportion of residents using heat pumps, or charging electric cars either.  As a result, the main options for heating are by either burning fossil fuel ( oil in most cases, or else bottled gas, which is hugely expensive ), and/or by burning wood.  Most use oil for background heating and a log burner for localised heat.  

I?m still burning logs from a willow tree which we had cut down several years ago and will be doing for at least two more years, possibly longer.  We have a number of smaller trees in the garden and when branches need to be removed or trimmed, they eventually find their way into the log burner.  Some twiggy stuff, especially elder, is used as kindling once dried, but the types which  burn less well are shredded and added to the compost.

Just to make things more complicated, the village is designated a conservation area, which means that visible changes to the outside of the house are mostly banned.  Therefore solar power would not be approved for my house as the south facing part of the roof is visible from the road. 

To conserve energy, I?ve put more than 30cm of insulation in the loft with reclaimed boards on top, while even the trap door has 20cm and a rubber seal. The house walls are 500mm thick with stone on the outside, so heat losses are fairly low. The conservation status means that we can?t install efficient double glazing and have to retain what?s already there.  Stone window frames and mullions look lovely, but aren?t the first choice for insulation.  All things considered, we don?t do too badly for energy usage.  We spend about ?250-300 on oil in a year, which heats the house and provides all our hot water. Electricity is only used for cooking and general purposes. If we were to fill our log shed by buying logs, a cubic metre (  ?100-120 ) would last a season. 

I?m not a fan of AGAs, but many people swear by them.  They are heated continuously which means that the kitchen can become unbearably hot in the summer. I know of a house where the south facing bedroom, directly over the AGA in the kitchen, is almost uninhabitable during August.

Facilities here are limited. When you talk of the last bus, you probably reckon on 23:00 or thereabouts. Our last bus was five years ago and even that was only once per week on market day, with a return trip that afternoon.  Doctor is five miles away in another village, dentist eight miles away in a different village.  We now have a Sainsbury?s Local within a half hour walk, providing you don?t mind walking over muddy footpaths through fields. 

A car is pretty well essential here for most people, but some older residents now live car-free. Shopping is delivered, as is medicine.  Most other things can be ordered online now and even the doc is mostly doing telephone consultations. For all other needs, occasionally using a taxi can be cheaper than running a rarely used car. 

Alan Taylor


> On 27 Nov 2020, at 23:49, dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com> wrote 
> Can some clever-clogs please explain why it is considered OK to have a log burner and not a coal fire? Surely they it is the same fuel but a few million years apart! My wife watches 'Escape to the Country' every afternoon and the vast majority of house hunters want acres of land, no neighbours, an AGA in the kitchen/diner, and a wood burner in the lounge! From an old age POV I want access to the local surgery, dentist, transport, and shops! I have got all of that so I won't be moving anywhere soon, except 6 feet downwards! Cheers, Dave.
> 
> On 27/11/2020 22:50, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> We had a replacement wood burner installed last year. The burner is multifuel, but the installer needed to know whether we would be burning smokeless fuel  or just wood.  Apparently you need a higher grade of stainless steel flue if burning solid fuel. It might not be an issue if you only have a few feet of chimney in a shed, but it gets expensive if you?re lining a tall chimney.
>> 
>> Coincidentally, the penguin connection is also there because the burner we installed is made by a Welsh company called Chilli Penguin.  We?re  very pleased with it too. 
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 22:28, B Wilkinson <barry-wilkinson at sky.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ? If you get a multi fuel version you could also burn smokeless fuel which creates more heat and lasts longer ,but may kill penguins and polar bears?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 21:25, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> I second the suggestion of a wood burning stove.  A friend of mine has a small wood burner in his workshop.  It keeps the place ridiculously warm, has a flat area on top for boiling a kettle and willingly devours wood scraps while he?s doing woodwork, or burns logs at other times.
>>>> 
>>>> Alan Taylor
>>>> 
>>>>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 20:49, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?
>>>>> Try this:
>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Space+heaters
>>>>>  
>>>>> Or have you got space to install a wood burning stove?
>>>>> My Somerset friend had one installed in his workshop.
>>>>> Obviously needs a supply of wood, have you got a nearby forest to nick fallen branches from?
>>>>> Pat
>>>>>  
>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>>>  
>>>>> From: techtone via Tech1
>>>>> Sent: 27 November 2020 20:27
>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
>>>>>  
>>>>> We may have got it semi-sorted fairly simply with two domestic radiant heaters on the floor. Heather dressed for the outdoors with wooly hat and heavy coat, standing at her easel, told me that there was just about enough warmth to keep going, although her hands were freezing. She's wondering if she can cut the fingertips off a pair of gloves for working in the studio.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Further suggestions much appreciated,
>>>>>  
>>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. 
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  	
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>>>> www.avast.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov 28 01:37:01 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 07:37:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra (now School report)
In-Reply-To: <ABF02081-D16E-4057-AEC4-2DA12BD8973F@btinternet.com>
References: <ABF02081-D16E-4057-AEC4-2DA12BD8973F@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <7005F4ED-A150-4FF2-9FA2-EE3CBFBB384A@me.com>

When I was 15, my school report for PE stated -
Alan shows no interest whatsoever in football, rugby or athletics.

No change there either, but I?ve made a fair amount of money by working at such events while still not remotely interested in them.

Highlight of PE for me was cross country running, which of course I despised. We were expected to set off from school and take a route around an airfield before returning.  A teacher was sometimes positioned on the road ensuring that we set off towards the airfield.  There were no turnings off that road. Once everybody had passed, he relocated to another road to check that everybody returned from the other side.

My best friend lived in a house which had a very long garden.  The front entrance was in the first road and there was a back gate into the second road.  We would run past the teacher and dive into his front gate. We would then sit in his living room for forty minutes ( just long enough to listen to Rubber Soul, which had just been released ), have a drink and a bag of crisps, before walking down the garden, muddying ourselves up a bit and rejoining the others on the home run.  

Alan Taylor

> On 27 Nov 2020, at 23:15, Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?This from my RI teacher when I was 14???"Good term?s attendance but Barry has serious doubts about the existence of God? (No change there then!)
> Barry.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 19:35, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> My favourite end of term Prep school report (from the days when teachers could say whatever they wanted) was ?Pottery Ware has a glazed look: so has Nicolas Ware!?
>> I still have it tucked away somewhere, I?m that proud of it!
>> 
>> OK everyone, what was the most appropriate/inappropriate school report you got?
>> Nick.
>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>> 
>>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 18:41, Brian Curtis <brian.curtis.bluesky at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> Or even his younger brother Soft Ware!
>>> 
>>>> On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 at 00:20, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Not forgetting Hard Ware, of course!
>>>> 
>>>> Mike G
>>>> 
>>>>> On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:52, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ? So was it ?our? Roger Bunce or not? I don?t trust those radio lot - there was another Nick Ware working in BBC radio, a producer, I think. I occasionally used to get his payslips, and his were a lot more than mine. And as if that wasn?t enough, there was also Peter Ware (as you all know): same thing, I sometimes got his! There, I think my middle initial ?P? was the spanner in the works.
>>>>> Ware isn?t that common a surname, but I?ve always been immensely proud of my ancestor Armitage Ware, who was best known for loitering in the toilet!
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Nick.
>>>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Sat Nov 28 02:09:10 2020
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 08:09:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cross country running (was Re:  Cleopatra,
 then School report)
In-Reply-To: <7005F4ED-A150-4FF2-9FA2-EE3CBFBB384A@me.com>
References: <ABF02081-D16E-4057-AEC4-2DA12BD8973F@btinternet.com>
	<7005F4ED-A150-4FF2-9FA2-EE3CBFBB384A@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJ=NTw4P4jYJWmf=4TNsdH7Xt8yvmKd9kpM2hvjnb1mDgg@mail.gmail.com>

At my school, for one year, boys not wanting to play football had the
option of doing a cross country run instead. Few of us liked that, but the
master in charge simply said that, if we didn't play football, we had to
"go around the [Wormwood] Scrubs". He didn't bother to check as we were
"trusted" sixth-formers. We took his words literally and just strolled out
of the gates in our normal clothes for a leisurely walk around part of the
Scrubs, stopping at the caf? for a tea, cigarette and a quick game of
cards. So much better than the more energetic stuff!

KW

On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 at 07:37, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> When I was 15, my school report for PE stated -
> Alan shows no interest whatsoever in football, rugby or athletics.
>
> No change there either, but I?ve made a fair amount of money by working at
> such events while still not remotely interested in them.
>
> Highlight of PE for me was cross country running, which of course I
> despised. We were expected to set off from school and take a route around
> an airfield before returning.  A teacher was sometimes positioned on the
> road ensuring that we set off towards the airfield.  There were no turnings
> off that road. Once everybody had passed, he relocated to another road to
> check that everybody returned from the other side.
>
> My best friend lived in a house which had a very long garden.  The front
> entrance was in the first road and there was a back gate into the second
> road.  We would run past the teacher and dive into his front gate. We would
> then sit in his living room for forty minutes ( just long enough to listen
> to Rubber Soul, which had just been released ), have a drink and a bag of
> crisps, before walking down the garden, muddying ourselves up a bit and
> rejoining the others on the home run.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
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From mibridge at mac.com  Sat Nov 28 03:04:11 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 09:04:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cross country running (was Re:  Cleopatra,
 then School report)
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJ=NTw4P4jYJWmf=4TNsdH7Xt8yvmKd9kpM2hvjnb1mDgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJ=NTw4P4jYJWmf=4TNsdH7Xt8yvmKd9kpM2hvjnb1mDgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BA2CE4AD-30E1-4E49-9C03-66D1AC75BCBA@mac.com>

?Serious doubts?  sounds far too mild for you, Barry - tantamount to ?sitting on the fence? and I have serious doubts that you ever do that!

Mike G

> On 28 Nov 2020, at 08:09, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> At my school, for one year, boys not wanting to play football had the option of doing a cross country run instead. Few of us liked that, but the master in charge simply said that, if we didn't play football, we had to "go around the [Wormwood] Scrubs". He didn't bother to check as we were "trusted" sixth-formers. We took his words literally and just strolled out of the gates in our normal clothes for a leisurely walk around part of the Scrubs, stopping at the caf? for a tea, cigarette and a quick game of cards. So much better than the more energetic stuff!
> 
> KW
> 
>> On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 at 07:37, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> When I was 15, my school report for PE stated -
>> Alan shows no interest whatsoever in football, rugby or athletics.
>> 
>> No change there either, but I?ve made a fair amount of money by working at such events while still not remotely interested in them.
>> 
>> Highlight of PE for me was cross country running, which of course I despised. We were expected to set off from school and take a route around an airfield before returning.  A teacher was sometimes positioned on the road ensuring that we set off towards the airfield.  There were no turnings off that road. Once everybody had passed, he relocated to another road to check that everybody returned from the other side.
>> 
>> My best friend lived in a house which had a very long garden.  The front entrance was in the first road and there was a back gate into the second road.  We would run past the teacher and dive into his front gate. We would then sit in his living room for forty minutes ( just long enough to listen to Rubber Soul, which had just been released ), have a drink and a bag of crisps, before walking down the garden, muddying ourselves up a bit and rejoining the others on the home run.  
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From relong at btinternet.com  Sat Nov 28 04:13:19 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 10:13:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wood burners
In-Reply-To: <0022F7A3-EA41-4D78-8497-A4A5C4CC05B8@me.com>
References: <23a64375-3c7a-0b9c-301a-e41834584288@btinternet.com>
	<0022F7A3-EA41-4D78-8497-A4A5C4CC05B8@me.com>
Message-ID: <92FA4A77-EEDE-45D2-BE7A-D9BF2D02A563@btinternet.com>

Our log burner is the focal point of the house on a dismal foggy November day @ 5 degree C as is today.
We had a new roof on our cottage last year, and an insulated door on the integral garage.
They made a considerable thermal improvement.
We changed the old AGA (an anthracite original converted to oil) for a EverHot electrical one, very sophisticated, made down the road at Dursley.
We installed underfloor heating too in the large kitchen /diner, but thats not on yet. The EverHot is a heat sink but programmable unlike the rather smelly Aga.
We only burn kiln dried  hardwood (mostly oak beech and ash) ,its a superb fuel and lights almost without kindling..
Its expensive at ?160 a metric ton, we have 2 ton in the south facing wood shed,I love the smell.
Oil is our fuel for CH, we use little now the Aga is gone for scrap.
Nothing better than watching the Morso woodburner with a glass of Armnagac.
Beats the tele every time.
My friend is installing heat pumps soon  4 x,140 m boreholes below the water table.
Cost ? 70k, 30 % Govt grant, huge ground works in an ANOB , hope they are not noisy.

Roger



From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com  Sat Nov 28 06:13:58 2020
From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 12:13:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra (now School report)
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB086314D9BF6FD0AC74F98ADEA7F80@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<55F7A079-C932-4778-B158-D98FB1B3586A@mac.com>
	<CAGVa-QcrBDCXZFahFh9gm21qExJpJSTok6SvGG0f8QOhTJ5XYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<VE1P189MB086314D9BF6FD0AC74F98ADEA7F80@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <313E4A8B-7457-46D7-9C31-708A394F2E9F@icloud.com>

My favourite was from my Headmaster:

?Graham?s smiling face is a joy each morning. Unfortunately smiling and joking won?t get him through his exams and time is now running out for the serious revision that he needs to do?

Sadly for him, British Airways offered me a job as a trainee pilot if I ?continued my studies up to A-Levels? with no demand for even a 'pass? - so I never did bother to revise properly, but have always managed to continue smiling and joking?.

Graham Maunder
078831 515678



> On 27 Nov 2020, at 19:35, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> My favourite end of term Prep school report (from the days when teachers could say whatever they wanted) was ?Pottery Ware has a glazed look: so has Nicolas Ware!?
> I still have it tucked away somewhere, I?m that proud of it!
> 
> OK everyone, what was the most appropriate/inappropriate school report you got?
> Nick.
> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 27 Nov 2020, at 18:41, Brian Curtis <brian.curtis.bluesky at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> Or even his younger brother Soft Ware!
>> 
>> On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 at 00:20, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>> Not forgetting Hard Ware, of course!
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>>> On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:52, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ? So was it ?our? Roger Bunce or not? I don?t trust those radio lot - there was another Nick Ware working in BBC radio, a producer, I think. I occasionally used to get his payslips, and his were a lot more than mine. And as if that wasn?t enough, there was also Peter Ware (as you all know): same thing, I sometimes got his! There, I think my middle initial ?P? was the spanner in the works.
>>> Ware isn?t that common a surname, but I?ve always been immensely proud of my ancestor Armitage Ware, who was best known for loitering in the toilet!
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nick.
>>> Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Nov 28 06:14:38 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 12:14:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra (now School report)
In-Reply-To: <7005F4ED-A150-4FF2-9FA2-EE3CBFBB384A@me.com>
References: <ABF02081-D16E-4057-AEC4-2DA12BD8973F@btinternet.com>
	<7005F4ED-A150-4FF2-9FA2-EE3CBFBB384A@me.com>
Message-ID: <5fc23f2e.1c69fb81.6487e.2c2d@mx.google.com>

One report that I?m rather proud of, was from my housemaster who happened to be in charge of shooting. He wrote that he was impressed with my coolness in shooting. I joined the shooting club, as I discovered that then I need not play cricket. Being useless at all field sports, this was fine, as we only spent a half hour each afternoon, practicing ?snapping?, that is learning to gently squeeze the trigger (unloaded!), then just one afternoon into the army truck and off to Bisley ranges for fullbore .303. I turned out to be a reasonable shot, and was picked for the Shooting Eight team, competing against other schools. This entitled me to wear the summer blazer, with white piping, as sported by the First 11 and First 15. So I could hold my head up amongst the hairy arsed tough guys of the other sports. My best recognition came during a much later visit to the Armed Response Unit of the Toronto Police in Canada. My friend and I were invited to have a few shots in their underground range. I chose to try the Heckler & Koch MP5 machine pistol. Setting it to single shot, I obtained a two inch group (which is pretty accurate) over ten shots. The instructor examined my target, and instantly offered me a job! I declined, saying that I preferred to shoot at something that wasn?t going to fire back! I had my own rifle for a time, initially .303, later converted to NATO 7.62mm, kept at home, but Surrey Police got excited when the IRA were active, so insisted that it should be stored in the armoury of the Surrey Rifle Association at Bisley. Police always checked it once a year and I would arrange to meet them there. Once they turned up a bit late, apologising that they had had to make an arrest on the way ? there was indeed a suspect in the back, probably crapping himself as he may have thought he was going to be a live target! I had to give up shooting, as one afternoon, I caught a shot badly, which started my ears singing. Normally this would pass off by evening, but not this time, and to this day I suffer from tinnitus, manifesting as a background hiss, like a noisy tape recording. A London ear surgeon tested my hearing, and revealed a 20db drop at 6Kcs. Not good for someone trying to work in sound! I wondered what music mixers do if their response is not truly flat ? do they dial in EQ so it sounds right to their ears?
All the best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 28 November 2020 07:37
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Cleopatra (now School report)

When I was 15, my school report for PE stated -
Alan shows no interest whatsoever in football, rugby or athletics.

No change there either, but I?ve made a fair amount of money by working at such events while still not remotely interested in them.




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Nov 28 07:02:24 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 13:02:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wood burners
In-Reply-To: <92FA4A77-EEDE-45D2-BE7A-D9BF2D02A563@btinternet.com>
References: <92FA4A77-EEDE-45D2-BE7A-D9BF2D02A563@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <C9617609-BF76-4BEC-90E5-6CD3FD3B485B@me.com>

Janet?s mum has a house in a forest in Germany, more than 1km from the nearest neighbour.  They have an unlimited supply of firewood, but it?s all coniferous softwood.

When she came to stay with us, she saw us put just a single log in the wood burner.  They would start off with three or four and add more every hour or so.  Germans also cut their logs to about 500mm long, roughly twice as long as ours. Using just one of our small logs seemed ridiculous in the extreme.

She was amazed to see how long our logs burn for, how much heat they produce and how little ash.  I tried winding her up by telling her that in a England we make more sophisticated wood burners and grow better wood, but Janet went and spoilt it by pointing out that we burn hardwood, while she burns softwood.

Incidentally I occasionally save a promising looking log, saw it down and and plane it smooth to use it as part of a small woodwork project.  It?s a damn site cheaper than buying hardwood from timber yards if you only need short pieces.

Alan Taylor



> On 28 Nov 2020, at 10:13, Roger E Long <relong at btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Our log burner is the focal point of the house on a dismal foggy November day @ 5 degree C as is today.
> We had a new roof on our cottage last year, and an insulated door on the integral garage.
> They made a considerable thermal improvement.
> We changed the old AGA (an anthracite original converted to oil) for a EverHot electrical one, very sophisticated, made down the road at Dursley.
> We installed underfloor heating too in the large kitchen /diner, but thats not on yet. The EverHot is a heat sink but programmable unlike the rather smelly Aga.
> We only burn kiln dried  hardwood (mostly oak beech and ash) ,its a superb fuel and lights almost without kindling..
> Its expensive at ?160 a metric ton, we have 2 ton in the south facing wood shed,I love the smell.
> Oil is our fuel for CH, we use little now the Aga is gone for scrap.
> Nothing better than watching the Morso woodburner with a glass of Armnagac.
> Beats the tele every time.
> My friend is installing heat pumps soon  4 x,140 m boreholes below the water table.
> Cost ? 70k, 30 % Govt grant, huge ground works in an ANOB , hope they are not noisy.
> 
> Roger
> 


From davesound at btinternet.com  Sat Nov 28 07:17:33 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 13:17:33 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra (now School report)
In-Reply-To: <313E4A8B-7457-46D7-9C31-708A394F2E9F@icloud.com>
References: <VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<55F7A079-C932-4778-B158-D98FB1B3586A@mac.com>
	<CAGVa-QcrBDCXZFahFh9gm21qExJpJSTok6SvGG0f8QOhTJ5XYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<VE1P189MB086314D9BF6FD0AC74F98ADEA7F80@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<313E4A8B-7457-46D7-9C31-708A394F2E9F@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <58d67fd9b3davesound@btinternet.com>

My elder brother was a maths teacher all his working life. So some 40
years. He was not ambitious - says he went into teaching for the holidays,
which let him get on with family life and hobbies. But given teachers
weren't well paid for much of that time supplemented his income with
teaching at night school. And took some pleasure in seeing some of his
more lazy former pupils hsving to go to that to get qualifications for
work in their own time. 
But one hobby did pay quite well - he was also in the Territorial Army,
and rose to the top of that.

I was never that ambitious either. My favourite job by a long mile was as
a crew chief at Thames (an SA1). With a great bunch of chaps. 


In article <313E4A8B-7457-46D7-9C31-708A394F2E9F at icloud.com>,
   Graham Maunder via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> My favourite was from my Headmaster:

> ?Graham?s smiling face is a joy each morning. Unfortunately smiling and joking won?t get him through his exams and time is now running out for the serious revision that he needs to do?

> Sadly for him, British Airways offered me a job as a trainee pilot if I ?continued my studies up to A-Levels? with no demand for even a 'pass? - so I never did bother to revise properly, but have always managed to continue smiling and joking?.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From waresound at msn.com  Sat Nov 28 08:16:02 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 14:16:02 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra (now School report)
In-Reply-To: <5fc23f2e.1c69fb81.6487e.2c2d@mx.google.com>
References: <5fc23f2e.1c69fb81.6487e.2c2d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB08639595C57A9CA516DCDC96A7F70@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

They just crank the monitors up until they?re jumping up and down, and everything in the room that can rattle and resonate, does.  By which time any notion of a ?balance? is meaningless.
Diminishing returns!
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 28 Nov 2020, at 12:15, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
A London ear surgeon tested my hearing, and revealed a 20db drop at 6Kcs. Not good for someone trying to work in sound! I wondered what music mixers do if their response is not truly flat ? do they dial in EQ so it sounds right to their ears?
All the best

Pat
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From waresound at msn.com  Sat Nov 28 08:56:51 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 14:56:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd:  Cleopatra (now School report) etc.
In-Reply-To: <VE1P189MB0863B8E11C42881B597FE266A7F70@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<55F7A079-C932-4778-B158-D98FB1B3586A@mac.com>
	<CAGVa-QcrBDCXZFahFh9gm21qExJpJSTok6SvGG0f8QOhTJ5XYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<VE1P189MB086314D9BF6FD0AC74F98ADEA7F80@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<313E4A8B-7457-46D7-9C31-708A394F2E9F@icloud.com>,
	<VE1P189MB0863B8E11C42881B597FE266A7F70@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB0863F47A612BD73CBF2850F7A7F70@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Oops, meant to send to all!
N.
Begin forwarded message:

From: Nick Ware <Waresound at msn.com>
Date: 28 November 2020 at 14:55:14 GMT
To: Graham Maunder <grahamthecameraman at icloud.com>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Cleopatra (now School report) etc.

?I never did any A levels. The subjects that interested me most weren?t taught at my school. So I was sent to Gfd Tech to get the essential O levels that I hadn?t passed at school (mainly thanks to teachers who couldn?t keep their hands to themselves), plus Physics, Chemistry and Biology. Then I thought it would be fun to be David Bailey, so went on to Art School to do Photography. How I blagged my way into the BBC I?ll never know!
In my experience (which is the only one I have) smiles get you better jobs (and friends) than being a nerd! But of course, if you are a nerd, try to keep that hidden and smile!
Cheers,
Nick. ?

P.S. for what it?s worth, I don?t think I?ve ever seen Graham Maunder not smiling. A Graham moment that I?ve never forgotten, was on an OB job somewhere, where there was a gorgeous girl who we all fancied, and who walked straight over to Graham and said: ?Is it really possible to fall in love with someone at first sight?? Only Grahan can tell us where that led!
N.x
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 28 Nov 2020, at 12:14, Graham Maunder <grahamthecameraman at icloud.com> wrote:

? My favourite was from my Headmaster:

?Graham?s smiling face is a joy each morning. Unfortunately smiling and joking won?t get him through his exams and time is now running out for the serious revision that he needs to do?

Sadly for him, British Airways offered me a job as a trainee pilot if I ?continued my studies up to A-Levels? with no demand for even a 'pass? - so I never did bother to revise properly, but have always managed to continue smiling and joking?.

Graham Maunder
078831 515678
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From techtone at protonmail.com  Sat Nov 28 15:56:04 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 21:56:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
In-Reply-To: <FBC619D8-E292-4502-8399-ACF3EFA40182@me.com>
References: <6F50E6B2-97C9-4B6F-829E-FB9B9C4443BB@sky.com>
	<FBC619D8-E292-4502-8399-ACF3EFA40182@me.com>
Message-ID: <gSvYKA3t5NNMDGpV-aZu3UeJ1Q2FX_Kzm0ybeX32cj7nu1Si8OuiLfYOcFEc7ZPYmU4emUlfQZUkxx5yKeLSPyOvYJj31e32-NXWgDwtlDo=@protonmail.com>

Funnily enough, the first thing she said she'd like was a wood burner........BUT.......she's out in the 'studio' painting in oils, and I pointed out that it was much too dangerous with turps/white spirit to have any form of naked flame in the room.

But we have a very nice wood burner in the lounge!

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
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From techtone at protonmail.com  Sat Nov 28 16:05:20 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 22:05:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wood burners
In-Reply-To: <23a64375-3c7a-0b9c-301a-e41834584288@btinternet.com>
References: <6F50E6B2-97C9-4B6F-829E-FB9B9C4443BB@sky.com>
	<FBC619D8-E292-4502-8399-ACF3EFA40182@me.com>
	<23a64375-3c7a-0b9c-301a-e41834584288@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <uhQV4C0lAnZ_aBgRLfXII2-gouGPCM16XbWRwD-z_bBL_SUBszYxzB0GKfcE3yzdrSeWodHeueRUVr9gnBJaB_EICKSgmSDaaX7NSpfDRmY=@protonmail.com>

And when we bought our cottage (original building supposed to date back to 1750) we went to the Centre for Alternative Technology to get advice on 'green' energy generation and sustainability. When they saw what we were on about, they advised us to install as much insulation as possible, as that was likely to be the most cost-effective long-term method of being energy efficient. Since we had to re-roof the lot (the original roof timbers were literally crumbling!) we installed 6" Kingspan, and in the winter, when it snows, we're the only property locally that still has snow on the roof at the end of the day!

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
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From techtone at protonmail.com  Sat Nov 28 16:14:07 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 22:14:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cleopatra (now School report)
In-Reply-To: <313E4A8B-7457-46D7-9C31-708A394F2E9F@icloud.com>
References: <VE1P189MB0863A69321D2065AC692AECFA7F90@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<55F7A079-C932-4778-B158-D98FB1B3586A@mac.com>
	<CAGVa-QcrBDCXZFahFh9gm21qExJpJSTok6SvGG0f8QOhTJ5XYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<VE1P189MB086314D9BF6FD0AC74F98ADEA7F80@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<313E4A8B-7457-46D7-9C31-708A394F2E9F@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <UZcGAKqmGqj-3q8fPfXdJtWbJo5zk49PoDzRAhb6YVvd7POR_3nPNkVg2APd9hBokMTnArDRvSVrXLRlK2SI-cj0kFNKOJwOUtsWqbdkRE0=@protonmail.com>

In sixth form I came across the classes 'official' internal reports, which were not intended for outside eyes, but I recognised them from overhearing a conversation between teachers some time earlier. Needles to say, I had a sneaky look at my own report, and have always treasured the one from my second year (aged 12/13), there were two sentences, the first claimed that I worked well, and the second simply read 'has a peculiar sense of humour'

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
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From waresound at msn.com  Sat Nov 28 16:53:37 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2020 22:53:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
Message-ID: <VE1P189MB086360A11A27CB96985890C5A7F70@VE1P189MB0863.EURP189.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

We live in a secluded close on the edge of the Surrey Hills, surrounded by countless hectares of unspoilt woodland. No shortage of timber lying around here wherever you look, ready to burn in log burners. And yet nobody does, which seems surprising. 
There?s a little-known-about pipeline not far from here, carrying aviation fuel from Southampton to Heathrow and Gatwick, and probably nearby Dunsfold. Thought I might tap into that! Or come to think about it, maybe I?m the only one who hasn?t.
Cheers,
Nick.
Nick Ware - Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 28 Nov 2020, at 21:56, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?
> Funnily enough, the first thing she said she'd like was a wood burner........BUT.......she's out in the 'studio' painting in oils, and I pointed out that it was much too dangerous with turps/white spirit to have any form of naked flame in the room.
> 
> But we have a very nice wood burner in the lounge!
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony

From doug at puddifoot.me  Sun Nov 29 03:41:44 2020
From: doug at puddifoot.me (Doug Puddifoot)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 09:41:44 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
Message-ID: <fxcvoh3ijpjt1xii1i3gxdt6.1606642378547@email.android.com>

How about this for an off the wall idea if there is somewhere to fit it. A diesel space heater designed for motor homes etc. It vents the exhaust to the outside so no naked flames. An 8kw  should keep it toasty. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=12v+diesel+air+heater&ref=nb_sb_noss.

Here is one being fitted.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=XQcwnD0hbeE

Doug



On 28 November 2020, at 21:56, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

Funnily enough, the first thing she said she'd like was a wood burner........BUT.......she's out in the 'studio' painting in oils, and I pointed out that it was much too dangerous with turps/white spirit to have any form of naked flame in the room.


But we have a very nice wood burner in the lounge!


TeaTeaFN - Tony



Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sun Nov 29 04:03:27 2020
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 10:03:27 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Variation on the old "red sky at night" verse
Message-ID: <A7E795B25AB742F7AEB35C644A464B94@Gigabyte>



Most be the Manchester air pollution causing this an a forthcoming episode of Corrie!




https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55101771

Mike
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From techtone at protonmail.com  Sun Nov 29 04:39:11 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 10:39:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
In-Reply-To: <fxcvoh3ijpjt1xii1i3gxdt6.1606642378547@email.android.com>
References: <fxcvoh3ijpjt1xii1i3gxdt6.1606642378547@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <-Aax5ykWvFGaaHKUcTi6m61OF2OoB3CwWqNAvXYDmzv2f3iTBVL5GsrR6dtJ24i5sdKoxIRh8ng53flLrqMuJoRtEXrtIr-wzpYrY2T7-WE=@protonmail.com>

Thank you for the idea, and I expect it would certainly provide sufficient heat, but likely to be frowned upon as I doubt it's not environmentally friendly, and probably too noisy, since Heather also enjoys listening to music whilst painting.

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.

??????? Original Message ???????
On Sunday, 29 November 2020 09:41, Doug Puddifoot <doug at puddifoot.me> wrote:

> How about this for an off the wall idea if there is somewhere to fit it. A diesel space heater designed for motor homes etc. It vents the exhaust to the outside so no naked flames. An 8kw should keep it toasty.
>
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=12v+diesel+air+heater&ref=nb_sb_noss.
>
> Here is one being fitted.
>
> https://youtube.com/watch?v=XQcwnD0hbeE
>
> Doug
>
> On 28 November 2020, at 21:56, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Funnily enough, the first thing she said she'd like was a wood burner........BUT.......she's out in the 'studio' painting in oils, and I pointed out that it was much too dangerous with turps/white spirit to have any form of naked flame in the room.
>
> But we have a very nice wood burner in the lounge!
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
> Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 29 04:50:15 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 10:50:15 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Variation on the old "red sky at night" verse
In-Reply-To: <A7E795B25AB742F7AEB35C644A464B94@Gigabyte>
References: <A7E795B25AB742F7AEB35C644A464B94@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <0c611d15-49eb-7a5a-95cd-ed8446654937@gmail.com>

I'm teaching myself DaVinci Resolve Fusion (free software!), so a small 
challenge for me and anyone else who would like to exercise their 
lockdown brain. The original is a bit small and smudgy, but the result 
isn't too bad. Much easier in Photoshop (or whatever), but that isn't 
the point.





On 29/11/2020 10:03, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote:
> Most be the Manchester air pollution causing this an a forthcoming 
> episode of Corrie!
> Sair Khan and Ian Bartholomew filming Coronation Street
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55101771 
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55101771>
> Mike
>

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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sun Nov 29 07:10:23 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 13:10:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
In-Reply-To: <ViT5TEI_m_-bLdJZYNhgbq6ms0LP3sfQ5Dd-7vBqhzOj6qwLt-tie3nKBc7HnfqdK1CqwY4z6_27AVc9rJBy3ZI5CC4J39SYcEVHvfXTcJs=@protonmail.com>
References: <bnGRPu9lO-WFyRAxtKdLuoo5x1vP-FCJUThgEQP9_N_dX-E9p10sGikYdcVs27WMQrwrAzz1BytfWyzccdWYuzQc6F1NQoqS2drbXzYnfqU=@protonmail.com>
	<79374ecd-494b-b44c-c00a-1c953dd199ff@gmail.com>
	<n8YqL0Voi9hD4URwo1ALAjDOX8BDhMT3-jgkN9clyGBMMB_axXkLSonW7a5-qtl9hVGAcsTACoYsFR95f3RrpLfqlZEBvbovfC8zML0aBjk=@protonmail.com>
	<ViT5TEI_m_-bLdJZYNhgbq6ms0LP3sfQ5Dd-7vBqhzOj6qwLt-tie3nKBc7HnfqdK1CqwY4z6_27AVc9rJBy3ZI5CC4J39SYcEVHvfXTcJs=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <cf20e73f-19c6-07b9-02e1-5263a29162f1@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Are these the flat panel "dark" radiant heaters, or the cheery orange 
glow tubes?

The latter have a tube temperature of several hundred ?C - a long way 
above the auto-ignition temperature of turps (white spirit) - 240?C - 
and far above the flash point of ~40?C.

The vapour is heavier than air so floor-mounted heaters are not a great 
idea - ones hanging from the ceiling are a lot safer in that respect.

Chris Woolf



On 27/11/2020 20:27, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
> We may have got it semi-sorted fairly simply with two domestic radiant 
> heaters on the floor. Heather dressed for the outdoors with wooly hat 
> and heavy coat, standing at her easel, told me that there was just 
> about enough warmth to keep going, although her hands were freezing. 
> She's wondering if she can cut the fingertips off a pair of gloves for 
> working in the studio.
>
> Further suggestions much appreciated,
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
>
> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com> Secure Email.
>
>


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sun Nov 29 08:55:08 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 14:55:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
In-Reply-To: <cf20e73f-19c6-07b9-02e1-5263a29162f1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <cf20e73f-19c6-07b9-02e1-5263a29162f1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FAF1DDEA-D156-4E39-A267-E05167D41D25@icloud.com>

Thinking laterally, a set of thermal underwear for Christmas?

Graeme Wall

> On 29 Nov 2020, at 13:10, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Are these the flat panel "dark" radiant heaters, or the cheery orange glow tubes?
> 
> The latter have a tube temperature of several hundred ?C - a long way above the auto-ignition temperature of turps (white spirit) - 240?C - and far above the flash point of ~40?C.
> 
> The vapour is heavier than air so floor-mounted heaters are not a great idea - ones hanging from the ceiling are a lot safer in that respect.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 27/11/2020 20:27, techtone via Tech1 wrote:
>> We may have got it semi-sorted fairly simply with two domestic radiant heaters on the floor. Heather dressed for the outdoors with wooly hat and heavy coat, standing at her easel, told me that there was just about enough warmth to keep going, although her hands were freezing. She's wondering if she can cut the fingertips off a pair of gloves for working in the studio.
>> 
>> Further suggestions much appreciated,
>> 
>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>> 
>> 
>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
>  	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From davesound at btinternet.com  Sun Nov 29 09:24:27 2020
From: davesound at btinternet.com (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 15:24:27 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
In-Reply-To: <bnGRPu9lO-WFyRAxtKdLuoo5x1vP-FCJUThgEQP9_N_dX-E9p10sGikYdcVs27WMQrwrAzz1BytfWyzccdWYuzQc6F1NQoqS2drbXzYnfqU=@protonmai
References: <bnGRPu9lO-WFyRAxtKdLuoo5x1vP-FCJUThgEQP9_N_dX-E9p10sGikYdcVs27WMQrwrAzz1BytfWyzccdWYuzQc6F1NQoqS2drbXzYnfqU=@protonmai
Message-ID: <58d70f4efddavesound@btinternet.com>

Are there any radiant heaters safe where volatile compounds are around?

I'd have thought an all enclosed type - like oil filled - would be the
only safe local heater. 


In article
<bnGRPu9lO-WFyRAxtKdLuoo5x1vP-FCJUThgEQP9_N_dX-E9p10sGikYdcVs27WMQrwrAzz1BytfWyzccdWYuzQc6F1NQoqS2drbXzYnfqU=@protonmai,
   techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> We have a large outbuilding which my wife wants to use as a studio for painting, but of course it's cold in the winter. It seems to me that the best answer for localised warmth would be a radiant heater, and I have had a look at some on the internet. Goodness, I had no idea there was such a wide range, so has anyone any thoughts on the pros and cons of different types, i.e. freestanding on an elevated pole, floor standing, angle adjustable, etc. It needs to be easily moveable, and so wall fixing types are no good. Also, as she wants to paint in oils, we know that she needs to be careful of where it's sited, and the sort of guard it has over the element/s.

> Right, I look forward to the benefit of your wisdom,

> TeaTeaFN - Tony

> Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.

-- 
    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From techtone at protonmail.com  Sun Nov 29 14:23:39 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 20:23:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Radiant heaters
In-Reply-To: <FAF1DDEA-D156-4E39-A267-E05167D41D25@icloud.com>
References: <cf20e73f-19c6-07b9-02e1-5263a29162f1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<FAF1DDEA-D156-4E39-A267-E05167D41D25@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <R-HDjqn8ufZXC10HgY_zb7brJXIa1CGo8f-A2r4WchlFUYq7cHhmGfU4qqlvgfwnKZh4YnjAuzc1eXsrBcbXpqUH-FKJvJO_QTVaxDYEU5s=@protonmail.com>

Oh dear, yes the heaters in use are the cheery orange glow, standing on the floor, heaters. So maybe yet another re-think required for suitable heat source. We do have a relatively large oil-filled heater, so could try this up a lot closer. Basically, we need to heat a relatively small area in a very large room, about twice the size of a standard garage, and with a very high ceiling. Absolutely fabulous in the summer, and not originally intended as winter usage, but it has the best amount of natural light for painting, which can be in short supply in the winter. Typical - light OK indoors in the summer, when the outdoor studio is at its best, but - old cottage with small windows - no use for natural light in the grey, short days.

Thermal underwear OK for nether regions, but doesn't help with freezing hands, and she needs to have her fingers free (she says) so won't accept my thin silk skiing gloves, for wear under really thick gloves. She has already cut the fingers off a pair of old gloves, but they haven't proved successful - she doesn't think they've got the right 'feel' whilst painting. You've got it - I just can't win!

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
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