From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Wed Jan  1 04:34:46 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 10:34:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] In Memorium
References: <1861321916.8628671.1577874886476.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1861321916.8628671.1577874886476@mail.yahoo.com>

Happy New Year, everybody.
And here is Toby Hadoke's moving tribute to those who have passed away this year (especially those with 'Doctor Who' connections).
https://youtu.be/JY71H8477c0

luv, Rog.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200101/d5c509b6/attachment.html>

From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Wed Jan  1 06:18:22 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 12:18:22 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks
Message-ID: <11981ec3-9df5-3f74-6134-090aa43f54a3@imixmics.co.uk>

Just watched a recording of last night's London fireworks. So much smoke 
- I'm surprised anyone on the north bank could see anything. The 
director seemed to have to keep using the cameras behind the wheel as 
those in front could hardly see!

Don't remember that being a problem in the past. Was it just down to 
lack of wind/direction of wind, or were they extra smokey fireworks?

John


From dave at davesound.co.uk  Wed Jan  1 06:28:32 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2020 12:28:32 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1
In-Reply-To: <93ce0d00-7774-a92b-d257-320f879f5654@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <cc02148a-31ab-7ac3-893b-f4125b7d6cc8@talktalk.net>
	<381A59DA-AC91-4032-A86F-E5B6A71CF591@me.com>
	<93ce0d00-7774-a92b-d257-320f879f5654@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <582b81d5d0dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <93ce0d00-7774-a92b-d257-320f879f5654 at howell61.f9.co.uk>,
   John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I thought the LS3 was originally designed for use in OB scanners. If you 
> look at those pictures in the Japanese sale the aperture in the front is 
> very much smaller than would normally be associated with such a large 
> speaker chassis. This was done to increase the dispersion of the sound 
> over a wider area because the ls's were inevitably very close to the 
> occupants.

Definitely designed to be moved around. As well as handles on the sides,
it had a steel cover for the grill, parked on the back of the speaker.

The design with concentric tweeters gave a very much better stereo image
than its big brother the LS5/1, which had the tweeters mounted above the
bass/midrange. Although with both the idea of using a 15" unit for
midrange seemed odd to me.

-- 
*Young at heart -- slightly older in other places

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Wed Jan  1 07:04:29 2020
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 13:04:29 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks
In-Reply-To: <11981ec3-9df5-3f74-6134-090aa43f54a3@imixmics.co.uk>
References: <11981ec3-9df5-3f74-6134-090aa43f54a3@imixmics.co.uk>
Message-ID: <25BD0FF628CD40EBA01E87F9C081625F@Gigabyte>

Apparently there was more smoke than fire last night so presumably the view across the river was almost totally obstructed.

See https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-new-years-eve-fireworks-smoke-2020-a4323996.html

Last fireworks OB I worked on was Jubilee 77 on County Hall roof and 2002 at Canada Gate.

Mike




-----Original Message----- 
From: John Nottage via Tech1 
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2020 12:18 PM 
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks 

Just watched a recording of last night's London fireworks. So much smoke 
- I'm surprised anyone on the north bank could see anything. The 
director seemed to have to keep using the cameras behind the wheel as 
those in front could hardly see!

Don't remember that being a problem in the past. Was it just down to 
lack of wind/direction of wind, or were they extra smokey fireworks?

John
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200101/ba831591/attachment.html>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Jan  1 07:17:19 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 13:17:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks
In-Reply-To: <25BD0FF628CD40EBA01E87F9C081625F@Gigabyte>
References: <11981ec3-9df5-3f74-6134-090aa43f54a3@imixmics.co.uk>
	<25BD0FF628CD40EBA01E87F9C081625F@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <5e0c9bde.1c69fb81.f720d.0d6f@mx.google.com>

I got fed up with watching the BBC coverage. Who is Craig David anyway, whose boring ?rock? music was overlaid. I much preferred ITV, which merely ran the sound FX of the fireworks, and their pictures were infinitely better!
Pat (BOF 77 ? ?Boring Old Fart?)

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Mike Jordan via Tech1
Sent: 01 January 2020 13:04
To: John Nottage; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fireworks

Apparently there was more smoke than fire last night so presumably the view across the river was almost totally obstructed.
?
See https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-new-years-eve-fireworks-smoke-2020-a4323996.html
?
Last fireworks OB I worked on was Jubilee 77 on County Hall roof and 2002 at Canada Gate.
?
Mike
?
?
?
?
-----Original Message----- 
From: John Nottage via Tech1 
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2020 12:18 PM 
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks 
?
Just watched a recording of last night's London fireworks. So much smoke 
- I'm surprised anyone on the north bank could see anything. The 
director seemed to have to keep using the cameras behind the wheel as 
those in front could hardly see!
?
Don't remember that being a problem in the past. Was it just down to 
lack of wind/direction of wind, or were they extra smokey fireworks?
?
John
?

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200101/42476def/attachment.html>

From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Wed Jan  1 07:26:25 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 13:26:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks
In-Reply-To: <5e0c9bde.1c69fb81.f720d.0d6f@mx.google.com>
References: <11981ec3-9df5-3f74-6134-090aa43f54a3@imixmics.co.uk>
	<25BD0FF628CD40EBA01E87F9C081625F@Gigabyte>
	<5e0c9bde.1c69fb81.f720d.0d6f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <C20AA5B4-384F-43DF-8F69-7D7A85F676BE@icloud.com>

The music was apparently part of the display, not Craig Davies.


? 
Graeme Wall


> On 1 Jan 2020, at 13:17, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I got fed up with watching the BBC coverage. Who is Craig David anyway, whose boring ?rock? music was overlaid. I much preferred ITV, which merely ran the sound FX of the fireworks, and their pictures were infinitely better!
> Pat (BOF 77 ? ?Boring Old Fart?)
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Mike Jordan via Tech1
> Sent: 01 January 2020 13:04
> To: John Nottage; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fireworks
>  
> Apparently there was more smoke than fire last night so presumably the view across the river was almost totally obstructed.
>  
> See https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-new-years-eve-fireworks-smoke-2020-a4323996.html
>  
> Last fireworks OB I worked on was Jubilee 77 on County Hall roof and 2002 at Canada Gate.
>  
> Mike
>  
>  
>  
>  
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: John Nottage via Tech1 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2020 12:18 PM 
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
> Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks 
>  
> Just watched a recording of last night's London fireworks. So much smoke 
> - I'm surprised anyone on the north bank could see anything. The 
> director seemed to have to keep using the cameras behind the wheel as 
> those in front could hardly see!
>  
> Don't remember that being a problem in the past. Was it just down to 
> lack of wind/direction of wind, or were they extra smokey fireworks?
>  
> John
>  
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Jan  1 07:34:12 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 13:34:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Vienna New Year's Day Concert
Message-ID: <5e0c9fd3.1c69fb81.d41bc.8d18@mx.google.com>

Enjoyed the Concert, as usual impeccably presented by ORF.
Can anyone have a clue as to how the dancers are synchronised with the music.
I assume that their routine is pre-recorded, as there are several complicated set-ups and there is no cutback to the orchestra in the Hall, so are they performing to a rehearsal track, and maybe the conductor is relied upon to keep exactly the same tempo? Since the return to the hall is timed exactly right at the end of the music.
Also some vision inserts are cut to music ? is there a system of storing video clips, which play immediately when selected?
So who knows the Sound Supervisor at ORF?
Inadvertently I have been into the Golden Hall ? working with Nick Ware on ?Music in Time? for Channel 4, we were in the Musicverein to record Shubert Lieder in a side salon. Hunting for a mains socket to run Nick?s Neve mixer ? nothing in the salon, and nothing in the corridor outside (where do the cleaning staff plug in the vacuum cleaners?) I opened a door opposite and as my eyes acclimatised to darkness, realised that it was the Golden Hall, at balcony level.

Pat
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200101/aa2f3259/attachment.html>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Jan  1 07:36:20 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 13:36:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks
In-Reply-To: <C20AA5B4-384F-43DF-8F69-7D7A85F676BE@icloud.com>
References: <11981ec3-9df5-3f74-6134-090aa43f54a3@imixmics.co.uk>
	<25BD0FF628CD40EBA01E87F9C081625F@Gigabyte>
	<5e0c9bde.1c69fb81.f720d.0d6f@mx.google.com>
	<C20AA5B4-384F-43DF-8F69-7D7A85F676BE@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <5e0ca053.1c69fb81.a7d63.4b2c@mx.google.com>

So was that music on PA? Not picked up on ITV?s coverage.
Inserted at Pres, perhaps?
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Graeme Wall
Sent: 01 January 2020 13:26
To: patheigham
Cc: Mike Jordan; John Nottage; Tech ops
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fireworks

The music was apparently part of the display, not Craig Davies.


? 
Graeme Wall


> On 1 Jan 2020, at 13:17, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I got fed up with watching the BBC coverage. Who is Craig David anyway, whose boring ?rock? music was overlaid. I much preferred ITV, which merely ran the sound FX of the fireworks, and their pictures were infinitely better!
> Pat (BOF 77 ? ?Boring Old Fart?)
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Mike Jordan via Tech1
> Sent: 01 January 2020 13:04
> To: John Nottage; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fireworks
>  
> Apparently there was more smoke than fire last night so presumably the view across the river was almost totally obstructed.
>  
> See https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-new-years-eve-fireworks-smoke-2020-a4323996.html
>  
> Last fireworks OB I worked on was Jubilee 77 on County Hall roof and 2002 at Canada Gate.
>  
> Mike
>  
>  
>  
>  
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: John Nottage via Tech1 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2020 12:18 PM 
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
> Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks 
>  
> Just watched a recording of last night's London fireworks. So much smoke 
> - I'm surprised anyone on the north bank could see anything. The 
> director seemed to have to keep using the cameras behind the wheel as 
> those in front could hardly see!
>  
> Don't remember that being a problem in the past. Was it just down to 
> lack of wind/direction of wind, or were they extra smokey fireworks?
>  
> John
>  
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200101/7b61023e/attachment.html>

From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Wed Jan  1 07:57:47 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 13:57:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Magicians
In-Reply-To: <37fb8a8d-1a4d-d338-05f8-799d3897b2df@gmail.com>
References: <19043ddd-872f-f721-9484-fd0adfb017f8@btinternet.com>
	<5e09f77e.1c69fb81.b51f.6c31@mx.google.com>
	<37b625be-ea0b-3e9c-9dc9-5672614bad4b@gmail.com>
	<176838416.8383949.1577805466834@mail.yahoo.com>
	<37fb8a8d-1a4d-d338-05f8-799d3897b2df@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8988E7-D50D-4A77-B591-58F8995A45B0@vincent68.plus.com>

Hope I'm not the only one, but I haven't a clue what you're on about Berni!

Happy New Year to all

John V



On 31 Dec 2019, at 16:14, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:

> It's all so easy now.  Free DaVinci Resolve Fusion has an amazing keyer, with lots of adjustments, but really easy to use. In this sequence ignore the wiggly white line, its an error I removed with the keyer.
> 
> So - original video, shot in HDV. Much sharper that this low res lift.
> 
> <kemfcecfglmcpffd.jpg>
> 
> Draw garbage matte (green line )
> 
> <gbhmjhfplpldbdgf.jpg>
> 
> Key
> 
> <gggkbcecbephfiip.jpg>
> 
> Result
> 
> <kpkcdigcjalpaino.jpg>
> 
> It's your node based compositing. Very good for the aging brain. The row of nodes at the top are processing on the kitchen pic (Media3) lifted from Google. Media1 is the original, Polygon is the garbage matte, DeltaKeyer1 does the work.
> 
> <akngihpaeefedmof.png>
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200101/f95b36cd/attachment.html>

From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Wed Jan  1 08:31:55 2020
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 14:31:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks
In-Reply-To: <5e0c9bde.1c69fb81.f720d.0d6f@mx.google.com>
References: <11981ec3-9df5-3f74-6134-090aa43f54a3@imixmics.co.uk>
	<25BD0FF628CD40EBA01E87F9C081625F@Gigabyte>
	<5e0c9bde.1c69fb81.f720d.0d6f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1E83E0BD-E4BF-4A42-AB86-8785ECCFF38E@btinternet.com>

Hi Pat,
	You should have watched Jools?s Annual Hootenanny instead, lots of fun. His sax line up contains ex BBC Grams Op Derek Nash. Mike Felton still doing the sound along with Tudor Davis!
Barry.



On 1 Jan 2020, at 13:17, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I got fed up with watching the BBC coverage. Who is Craig David anyway, whose boring ?rock? music was overlaid. I much preferred ITV, which merely ran the sound FX of the fireworks, and their pictures were infinitely better!
> Pat (BOF 77 ? ?Boring Old Fart?)
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Mike Jordan via Tech1
> Sent: 01 January 2020 13:04
> To: John Nottage; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fireworks
>  
> Apparently there was more smoke than fire last night so presumably the view across the river was almost totally obstructed.
>  
> See https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-new-years-eve-fireworks-smoke-2020-a4323996.html
>  
> Last fireworks OB I worked on was Jubilee 77 on County Hall roof and 2002 at Canada Gate.
>  
> Mike
>  
>  
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Nottage via Tech1
> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2020 12:18 PM
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks
>  
> Just watched a recording of last night's London fireworks. So much smoke
> - I'm surprised anyone on the north bank could see anything. The
> director seemed to have to keep using the cameras behind the wheel as
> those in front could hardly see!
>  
> Don't remember that being a problem in the past. Was it just down to
> lack of wind/direction of wind, or were they extra smokey fireworks?
>  
> John
>  
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200101/153aa428/attachment.html>

From mibridge at mac.com  Wed Jan  1 08:46:49 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 14:46:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks
In-Reply-To: <1E83E0BD-E4BF-4A42-AB86-8785ECCFF38E@btinternet.com>
References: <1E83E0BD-E4BF-4A42-AB86-8785ECCFF38E@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <DA0420B1-1DAD-443F-A81F-8106F4C465BC@mac.com>

I did, as usual, and very happy Derek Nash looks, too!

Mike G

> On 1 Jan 2020, at 14:32, Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hi Pat,
> 	You should have watched Jools?s Annual Hootenanny instead, lots of fun. His sax line up contains ex BBC Grams Op Derek Nash. Mike Felton still doing the sound along with Tudor Davis!
> Barry.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 1 Jan 2020, at 13:17, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> I got fed up with watching the BBC coverage. Who is Craig David anyway, whose boring ?rock? music was overlaid. I much preferred ITV, which merely ran the sound FX of the fireworks, and their pictures were infinitely better!
>> Pat (BOF 77 ? ?Boring Old Fart?)
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: Mike Jordan via Tech1
>> Sent: 01 January 2020 13:04
>> To: John Nottage; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fireworks
>>  
>> Apparently there was more smoke than fire last night so presumably the view across the river was almost totally obstructed.
>>  
>> See https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-new-years-eve-fireworks-smoke-2020-a4323996.html
>>  
>> Last fireworks OB I worked on was Jubilee 77 on County Hall roof and 2002 at Canada Gate.
>>  
>> Mike
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Nottage via Tech1
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2020 12:18 PM
>> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks
>>  
>> Just watched a recording of last night's London fireworks. So much smoke
>> - I'm surprised anyone on the north bank could see anything. The
>> director seemed to have to keep using the cameras behind the wheel as
>> those in front could hardly see!
>>  
>> Don't remember that being a problem in the past. Was it just down to
>> lack of wind/direction of wind, or were they extra smokey fireworks?
>>  
>> John
>>  
>>  
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200101/c623c2cd/attachment.html>

From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Wed Jan  1 08:51:40 2020
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer)
Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2020 14:51:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks
Message-ID: <767evcsv4f888qogun7oiutk.1577890300857@email.android.com>

Yes, I think it was simply a case of little or no wind to remove the smoke. I've noticed this at the Plymouth Fireworks on the Hoe, when usually the smoke is carried up the river towards Plymstock? (sorry, Plymstock!) but once it just stayed where it was, with the fireworks illuminating it - like last night.?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 01/01/2020  13:04  (GMT+00:00) To: John Nottage <jpn at imixmics.co.uk>, tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fireworks 


Apparently there was more smoke than fire last night so presumably the view 
across the river was almost totally obstructed.
?
See https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-new-years-eve-fireworks-smoke-2020-a4323996.html
?
Last fireworks OB I worked on was Jubilee 77 on County Hall roof and 2002 
at Canada Gate.
?
Mike
?
?
?
?
-----Original Message----- 
From: John Nottage via Tech1 
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2020 12:18 PM 
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: [Tech1] Fireworks 
?
Just watched a recording of last night's London fireworks. So much smoke 

- I'm surprised anyone on the north bank could see anything. The 
director seemed to have to keep using the cameras behind the wheel as 

those in front could hardly see!
?
Don't remember that being a problem in the past. Was it just down to 
lack of wind/direction of wind, or were they extra smokey fireworks?
?
John
?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200101/a8d1afde/attachment.html>

From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Jan  1 16:28:03 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2020 22:28:03 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 'In Memorium'
Message-ID: <3568d0e3-b77c-b9e8-3db1-0ed7d1e516ff@btinternet.com>

I was sad to see the name Sue Hedden among those who are no longer with 
us. She was the first wife of Dave Hedden, long-time SA1 on Crew9. I 
don't know how Dave managed it but he loved escaping from TVC to go and 
help Sue on her location dramas. RIP. Dave



From ian.hillson at gmail.com  Thu Jan  2 06:23:27 2020
From: ian.hillson at gmail.com (Ian H)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 12:23:27 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] AP
Message-ID: <CAO37+kY1vyDY0ax7YuNy531u4iYBkTFy-4sgYTaN1OLkY+GJgQ@mail.gmail.com>

1938 - MODERN WONDER magazine features that new-fangled Television from the
BBC at London's Alexandra Palace
https://twitter.com/MostlyPrint/status/1212671760379908096
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200102/12ea4d86/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: AP.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1628554 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200102/12ea4d86/attachment.jpg>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jan  2 11:02:20 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 17:02:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] AP
In-Reply-To: <CAO37+kY1vyDY0ax7YuNy531u4iYBkTFy-4sgYTaN1OLkY+GJgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO37+kY1vyDY0ax7YuNy531u4iYBkTFy-4sgYTaN1OLkY+GJgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5e0e221e.1c69fb81.3ea62.8190@mx.google.com>

Thank goodness for the invention of television.
I had to have a Flexible Sigmoidoscopy* recently, as a further investigation following a MRI scan. Without TV, anything like that would mean invasive surgery to have a look-see. Oh! And bless miniaturisation. (*It?s a camera up the bum! Think I would have had trouble with a CPS Emitron!) You can look if you like said the Doc ? full colour HD on a 40? monitor! I refer to it as my IB (Inside Broadcast) Oh HA HA!

Best for 2020
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Ian H via Tech1
Sent: 02 January 2020 12:23
To: Tech-OpsMailing List
Subject: [Tech1] AP

1938 - MODERN WONDER magazine features that new-fangled Television from the BBC at London's Alexandra Palace??
https://twitter.com/MostlyPrint/status/1212671760379908096??

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200102/89a5a64f/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: AP.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1628554 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200102/89a5a64f/attachment.jpg>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jan  2 11:22:54 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 17:22:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1
In-Reply-To: <582b81d5d0dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <cc02148a-31ab-7ac3-893b-f4125b7d6cc8@talktalk.net>
	<381A59DA-AC91-4032-A86F-E5B6A71CF591@me.com>
	<93ce0d00-7774-a92b-d257-320f879f5654@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<582b81d5d0dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5e0e26ed.1c69fb81.f9e45.92a9@mx.google.com>

So, remind me, someone. Which was the model of the small foldback speaker, natural wood brown finish with an in-built amp. Think it was a commercial KEF modified for BBC use. (LS5?)
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 01 January 2020 12:35
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1

In article <93ce0d00-7774-a92b-d257-320f879f5654 at howell61.f9.co.uk>,
   John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I thought the LS3 was originally designed for use in OB scanners. If you 
> look at those pictures in the Japanese sale the aperture in the front is 
> very much smaller than would normally be associated with such a large 
> speaker chassis. This was done to increase the dispersion of the sound 
> over a wider area because the ls's were inevitably very close to the 
> occupants.

Definitely designed to be moved around. As well as handles on the sides,
it had a steel cover for the grill, parked on the back of the speaker.

The design with concentric tweeters gave a very much better stereo image
than its big brother the LS5/1, which had the tweeters mounted above the
bass/midrange. Although with both the idea of using a 15" unit for
midrange seemed odd to me.

-- 
*Young at heart -- slightly older in other places

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200102/624d0f44/attachment.html>

From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Thu Jan  2 12:09:10 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 18:09:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] AP
In-Reply-To: <CAO37+kY1vyDY0ax7YuNy531u4iYBkTFy-4sgYTaN1OLkY+GJgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO37+kY1vyDY0ax7YuNy531u4iYBkTFy-4sgYTaN1OLkY+GJgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43804a9f-6b4f-2c05-6a20-8ba2ce2917bd@btinternet.com>

It appears that both the boom operator and the floor manager are 
leg-less! I thought the? -'never eat on an empty stomach' - mantra, came 
much later! Cheers, hic, Dave

On 02/01/2020 12:23, Ian H via Tech1 wrote:
> 1938 - MODERN WONDER magazine features that new-fangled Television 
> from the BBC at London's Alexandra Palace
> https://twitter.com/MostlyPrint/status/1212671760379908096
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200102/94358e8a/attachment.html>

From martin at theeccles.uk  Thu Jan  2 12:38:43 2020
From: martin at theeccles.uk (Martin Eccles)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 18:38:43 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1
In-Reply-To: <5e0e26ed.1c69fb81.f9e45.92a9@mx.google.com>
References: <cc02148a-31ab-7ac3-893b-f4125b7d6cc8@talktalk.net>	<381A59DA-AC91-4032-A86F-E5B6A71CF591@me.com>	<93ce0d00-7774-a92b-d257-320f879f5654@howell61.f9.co.uk>	<582b81d5d0dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<5e0e26ed.1c69fb81.f9e45.92a9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <006401d5c19b$dcd2c5b0$96785110$@theeccles.uk>

Hi Pat,

That would be an LS/1, quite small and useful for hiding in tight corners.

Martin.

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of patheigham via Tech1
Sent: 02 January 2020 17:23
To: Dave Plowman <dave at davesound.co.uk>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1

 

So, remind me, someone. Which was the model of the small foldback speaker, natural wood brown finish with an in-built amp. Think it was a commercial KEF modified for BBC use. (LS5?)

Pat

 

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10

 

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Sent: 01 January 2020 12:35
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1

 

In article <93ce0d00-7774-a92b-d257-320f879f5654 at howell61.f9.co.uk <mailto:93ce0d00-7774-a92b-d257-320f879f5654 at howell61.f9.co.uk> >,

   John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

> I thought the LS3 was originally designed for use in OB scanners. If you 

> look at those pictures in the Japanese sale the aperture in the front is 

> very much smaller than would normally be associated with such a large 

> speaker chassis. This was done to increase the dispersion of the sound 

> over a wider area because the ls's were inevitably very close to the 

> occupants.

 

Definitely designed to be moved around. As well as handles on the sides,

it had a steel cover for the grill, parked on the back of the speaker.

 

The design with concentric tweeters gave a very much better stereo image

than its big brother the LS5/1, which had the tweeters mounted above the

bass/midrange. Although with both the idea of using a 15" unit for

midrange seemed odd to me.

 

-- 

*Young at heart -- slightly older in other places

 

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk <mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk>      London SW 12

    

 

-- 

Tech1 mailing list

Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 

http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200102/6154db89/attachment.html>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jan  2 12:46:10 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 18:46:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1
In-Reply-To: <006401d5c19b$dcd2c5b0$96785110$@theeccles.uk>
References: <cc02148a-31ab-7ac3-893b-f4125b7d6cc8@talktalk.net>
	<381A59DA-AC91-4032-A86F-E5B6A71CF591@me.com>
	<93ce0d00-7774-a92b-d257-320f879f5654@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<582b81d5d0dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<5e0e26ed.1c69fb81.f9e45.92a9@mx.google.com>
	<006401d5c19b$dcd2c5b0$96785110$@theeccles.uk>
Message-ID: <5e0e3a71.1c69fb81.9e051.9fed@mx.google.com>

Thanks for that, Martin, I think I have a shot of it on my ?unofficial? 8mm film of the Minstrels, as it was positioned on the edge of the stage, in front of Cam 3, which was on a Vinten motorised situated on the floor of the auditorium, usually manned by Ron Peverall in those days (1963/4).
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Martin Eccles
Sent: 02 January 2020 18:38
To: 'patheigham'
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: RE: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1

Hi Pat,
That would be an LS/1, quite small and useful for hiding in tight corners.
Martin.

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of patheigham via Tech1
Sent: 02 January 2020 17:23
To: Dave Plowman <dave at davesound.co.uk>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1

So, remind me, someone. Which was the model of the small foldback speaker, natural wood brown finish with an in-built amp. Think it was a commercial KEF modified for BBC use. (LS5?)
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200102/cc686472/attachment.html>

From martin at theeccles.uk  Thu Jan  2 17:47:21 2020
From: martin at theeccles.uk (Martin Eccles)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2020 23:47:21 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1
In-Reply-To: <5e0e3a71.1c69fb81.9e051.9fed@mx.google.com>
References: <cc02148a-31ab-7ac3-893b-f4125b7d6cc8@talktalk.net>	<381A59DA-AC91-4032-A86F-E5B6A71CF591@me.com>	<93ce0d00-7774-a92b-d257-320f879f5654@howell61.f9.co.uk>	<582b81d5d0dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<5e0e26ed.1c69fb81.f9e45.92a9@mx.google.com>
	<006401d5c19b$dcd2c5b0$96785110$@theeccles.uk>
	<5e0e3a71.1c69fb81.9e051.9fed@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <007901d5c1c6$fa6b7790$ef4266b0$@theeccles.uk>

Hi Pat,

I found several photos on this link at  reverb.com, a buying / selling site for vintage music gear?

 

Martin.

 

https://reverb.com/item/4805032-bbc-bbc-ls1-1-569-ls1-1-551-speakers-bbc-am8-2a-tube-amplifiers-80s-wooden

 

 



 



 

 

From: patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> 
Sent: 02 January 2020 18:46
To: Martin Eccles <martin at theeccles.uk>
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: RE: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1

 

Thanks for that, Martin, I think I have a shot of it on my ?unofficial? 8mm film of the Minstrels, as it was positioned on the edge of the stage, in front of Cam 3, which was on a Vinten motorised situated on the floor of the auditorium, usually manned by Ron Peverall in those days (1963/4).

Pat

 

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10

 

From: Martin Eccles <mailto:martin at theeccles.uk> 
Sent: 02 January 2020 18:38
To: 'patheigham' <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net> 
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Subject: RE: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1

 

Hi Pat,

That would be an LS/1, quite small and useful for hiding in tight corners.

Martin.

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> > On Behalf Of patheigham via Tech1
Sent: 02 January 2020 17:23
To: Dave Plowman <dave at davesound.co.uk <mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk> >; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1

 

So, remind me, someone. Which was the model of the small foldback speaker, natural wood brown finish with an in-built amp. Think it was a commercial KEF modified for BBC use. (LS5?)

Pat

 

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200102/86451049/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 8760 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200102/86451049/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 8320 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200102/86451049/attachment-0001.jpg>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Thu Jan  2 18:55:52 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2020 00:55:52 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] AP
In-Reply-To: <5e0e221e.1c69fb81.3ea62.8190@mx.google.com>
References: <CAO37+kY1vyDY0ax7YuNy531u4iYBkTFy-4sgYTaN1OLkY+GJgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e0e221e.1c69fb81.3ea62.8190@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <582c4a16b2dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <5e0e221e.1c69fb81.3ea62.8190 at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Thank goodness for the invention of television. I had to have a Flexible
> Sigmoidoscopy* recently, as a further investigation following a MRI
> scan. Without TV, anything like that would mean invasive surgery to have
> a look-see. Oh! And bless miniaturisation. (*It?s a camera up the bum!
> Think I would have had trouble with a CPS Emitron!) You can look if you
> like said the Doc ? full colour HD on a 40? monitor! I refer to it as my
> IB (Inside Broadcast) Oh HA HA!

Now imagine a cystoscope. That's where they look inside your bladder. Bet
most have crossed their legs reading this. ;-)

-- 
*This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for extra security *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From dave at davesound.co.uk  Thu Jan  2 19:05:14 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2020 01:05:14 +0000 (added by postmaster@btinternet.com)
Subject: [Tech1] (no subject)
Message-ID: <5DC1379509F8E240@sa-prd-rgout-002.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net>
	(added by postmaster@btinternet.com)

 Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2020 00:57:10 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1
Message-ID: <582c4a361edave at davesound.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <5e0e26ed.1c69fb81.f9e45.92a9 at mx.google.com>
References: <cc02148a-31ab-7ac3-893b-f4125b7d6cc8 at talktalk.net>
 <381A59DA-AC91-4032-A86F-E5B6A71CF591 at me.com>
 <93ce0d00-7774-a92b-d257-320f879f5654 at howell61.f9.co.uk>
 <582b81d5d0dave at davesound.co.uk> <5e0e26ed.1c69fb81.f9e45.92a9 at mx.google.com>
User-Agent: Pluto/3.16 (RISC-OS/4.39)
Content-Type: text/plain

In article <5e0e26ed.1c69fb81.f9e45.92a9 at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
> So, remind me, someone. Which was the model of the small foldback
> speaker, natural wood brown finish with an in-built amp. Think it was a
> commercial KEF modified for BBC use. (LS5?)

LS1/1. Really, an office speaker.

-- 
*The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered*

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12



From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Fri Jan  3 02:44:19 2020
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2020 08:44:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5DC1379509F8E240@sa-prd-rgout-002.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net>
References: <5DC1379509F8E240@sa-prd-rgout-002.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net>
Message-ID: <9fad0de9-9577-55b8-8c7b-09d1b94762dd@howell61.f9.co.uk>

Yes, the LS1/1 used an amplifier based on the Mullard '3-3' design, (3 
valves 3 Watts)

and a? Goodmans 8 Inch speaker in a vented cabinet.

John H.

On 03/01/2020 01:05, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
>   Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2020 00:57:10 +0000 (GMT)
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] BBC LS3/1
> Message-ID: <582c4a361edave at davesound.co.uk>
> In-Reply-To: <5e0e26ed.1c69fb81.f9e45.92a9 at mx.google.com>
> References: <cc02148a-31ab-7ac3-893b-f4125b7d6cc8 at talktalk.net>
>   <381A59DA-AC91-4032-A86F-E5B6A71CF591 at me.com>
>   <93ce0d00-7774-a92b-d257-320f879f5654 at howell61.f9.co.uk>
>   <582b81d5d0dave at davesound.co.uk> <5e0e26ed.1c69fb81.f9e45.92a9 at mx.google.com>
> User-Agent: Pluto/3.16 (RISC-OS/4.39)
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> In article <5e0e26ed.1c69fb81.f9e45.92a9 at mx.google.com>,
>     patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
>> So, remind me, someone. Which was the model of the small foldback
>> speaker, natural wood brown finish with an in-built amp. Think it was a
>> commercial KEF modified for BBC use. (LS5?)
> LS1/1. Really, an office speaker.
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200103/50a8441f/attachment.html>

From tonynuttall at me.com  Fri Jan  3 09:04:47 2020
From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall)
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2020 15:04:47 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] A Thought for 2020
Message-ID: <6a8dcf6f-f865-4f9a-8323-ef1868f0ab62@me.com>


Tony Nuttall in the Wilds of "Cumbria"
(Part of the Great Northern Power House)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200103/6efe48b2/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 79686371_2662327400487934_1797221488688889856_o.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 93104 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200103/6efe48b2/attachment.jpg>

From peterjohncombes at gmail.com  Fri Jan  3 09:20:41 2020
From: peterjohncombes at gmail.com (Peter Combes)
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2020 16:20:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] A Thought for 2020
In-Reply-To: <6a8dcf6f-f865-4f9a-8323-ef1868f0ab62@me.com>
References: <6a8dcf6f-f865-4f9a-8323-ef1868f0ab62@me.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Ybt4XbGCAW5JJyCOPfp5ZkuZjmhKQ=hE=5HBCaQDm9fgZeoQ@mail.gmail.com>

... all but one, for epns and eons.

On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 at 16:05, William Nuttall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> [image: 79686371_2662327400487934_1797221488688889856_o.jpg]
> Tony Nuttall in the Wilds of "Cumbria"
> (Part of the Great Northern Power House)
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200103/7a7f8263/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 79686371_2662327400487934_1797221488688889856_o.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 93104 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200103/7a7f8263/attachment.jpg>

From peterjohncombes at gmail.com  Fri Jan  3 09:23:54 2020
From: peterjohncombes at gmail.com (Peter Combes)
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2020 16:23:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] A Thought for 2020
In-Reply-To: <6a8dcf6f-f865-4f9a-8323-ef1868f0ab62@me.com>
References: <6a8dcf6f-f865-4f9a-8323-ef1868f0ab62@me.com>
Message-ID: <CA+Ybt4WKAfSnukkndu+h-XrQ+44Hp_P7CANhEuXggik+2m7NqA@mail.gmail.com>

. . . all but one for eons and eons.


On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 at 16:05, William Nuttall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> [image: 79686371_2662327400487934_1797221488688889856_o.jpg]
> Tony Nuttall in the Wilds of "Cumbria"
> (Part of the Great Northern Power House)
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200103/dcd92ddd/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 79686371_2662327400487934_1797221488688889856_o.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 93104 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200103/dcd92ddd/attachment.jpg>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Fri Jan  3 10:11:18 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2020 16:11:18 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Miranda - for the sound types.
Message-ID: <582c9de711dave@davesound.co.uk>

Watched her special from the Palladium the other day, and was immediately
impressed with the very decent speech quality. And that Ronan Keating sang
without a hand mic although he did have IEM.

I'd guess all the mics were in the hair, rather than on the chest. One of
the old Miranda cast was balding and had it on the chest - and sounded
like it.

Why isn't this more used on drama?

-- 
*Before they invented drawing boards, what did they go back to?

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From waresound at msn.com  Fri Jan  3 12:04:50 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2020 18:04:50 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Steam
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271EDF04104FC523B597377A7230@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

For steam enthusiasts - I know you?re in there!
youtube.com/watch?v=AK5mM8hXGfc
Cheers,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Jan  4 02:40:09 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 08:40:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Best contribution via viewer participation
Message-ID: <5532AAE9-412A-44BC-8DC5-D8A157EC751F@me.com>

Yesterday I was at somebody's house where they still had a fax machine and it reminded me of the best ever contribution from a viewer to a TV show I was working on.

I was responsible for setting up the sound for the Big Breakfast when it first started in 1992 - we used an ex BBC OB Type 5 scanner to provide the technical facilities.  The show really took off with the public ( or at least with a certain sector of the public ) and viewer participation was encouraged in multiple ways.

One morning I was passing the room where people took phone calls and found that the fax machine had spewed out a fax that was several feet long.  I surmised that the sender must have used a photocopier and initially photocopied his head and shoulders, but with his tie pulled up from the neck, over his nose and ending up above his hair. The rest of his body was photocopied section by section until his feet had been done. The photocopies must have then been loaded into a fax machine and sent to us with a final sheet bearing a message.  

What appeared in our office was a near life sized image of the guy starting with the tip of his tie at the top of the image followed by the rest of his body, with the message at the end saying "Help - I've caught my tie in the fax machine".

Alan Taylor




From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jan  4 07:40:59 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 13:40:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Miranda - for the sound types.
In-Reply-To: <582c9de711dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <582c9de711dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5e1095ec.1c69fb81.21fd5.aa2b@mx.google.com>

Probably because in the hair would be seen on camera.
All the principals in ?42nd Street? (Theatre Royal Drury Lane) were miked, mostly with ?cheek? mics, but some of the girls and certainly the lead actress had the mic in the wigs.
Couldn?t see it from the Royal Circle seats, but when the show was filmed in 4K ? oh! there it was! ?cos the cameras could obtain CU?s.
Interestingly, it was re-mixed at Pinewood. They must have been presented with loads of iso-tracks. I believe that 84 radio mics were in use.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 03 January 2020 16:11
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Miranda - for the sound types.

Watched her special from the Palladium the other day, and was immediately
impressed with the very decent speech quality. And that Ronan Keating sang
without a hand mic although he did have IEM.

I'd guess all the mics were in the hair, rather than on the chest. One of
the old Miranda cast was balding and had it on the chest - and sounded
like it.

Why isn't this more used on drama?

-- 
*Before they invented drawing boards, what did they go back to?

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200104/ed613e6b/attachment.html>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jan  4 10:06:59 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 16:06:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Playing Trains
Message-ID: <5e10b824.1c69fb81.289fd.345f@mx.google.com>


After Nick?s kind link to winter steam trains, I present short stories of experiences with playing trains on movies.
Great fun!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200104/54db813a/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Train Stories_docx.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 24540 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200104/54db813a/attachment.pdf>

From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sat Jan  4 11:22:22 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 17:22:22 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Steam
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271EDF04104FC523B597377A7230@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VI1P192MB0271EDF04104FC523B597377A7230@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <B14D0AFE223341B0AFEECBCC90B854B7@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

I hugely enjoyed that Nick - incredibly atmospheric. Thank you,

Dave Newbitt

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: Friday, January 3, 2020 6:04 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Steam

For steam enthusiasts - I know you?re in there!
youtube.com/watch?v=AK5mM8hXGfc
Cheers,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jan  4 11:43:47 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 17:43:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] EON
In-Reply-To: <CA+Ybt4XbGCAW5JJyCOPfp5ZkuZjmhKQ=hE=5HBCaQDm9fgZeoQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6a8dcf6f-f865-4f9a-8323-ef1868f0ab62@me.com>
	<CA+Ybt4XbGCAW5JJyCOPfp5ZkuZjmhKQ=hE=5HBCaQDm9fgZeoQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5e10ced4.1c69fb81.bcd11.d826@mx.google.com>

Eon was the production company for the James Bond films.
(see attachment)
I was fortunate to work on two of them (9 & 10).
Great fun.
Now ? a spooky moment ? I was driving on the M19 when the car radio broke in with the news of Cubby?s death. The car in front of me had the reg number CUB!

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Peter Combes via Tech1
Sent: 03 January 2020 15:21
To: William Nuttall
Cc: Bernard Newnham; Bernard Newnham
Subject: Re: [Tech1] A Thought for 2020

... all but one, for epns and eons.


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200104/44fb6c7a/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: EON Productions.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 40029 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200104/44fb6c7a/attachment.pdf>

From Waresound at msn.com  Sat Jan  4 13:46:04 2020
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2020 19:46:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Steam
In-Reply-To: <B14D0AFE223341B0AFEECBCC90B854B7@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <VI1P192MB0271EDF04104FC523B597377A7230@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<B14D0AFE223341B0AFEECBCC90B854B7@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271A1D1DF039316FDF6E26CA7220@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I thought so too. I stumbled across it purely by chance, and adored the restrained camerawork, and the way he lets the subject tell the story. Elegant simplicity and natural sound, not often seen and heard nowadays!
Best, 
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 4 Jan 2020, at 17:22, David Newbitt <dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net> wrote:
> 
> ?I hugely enjoyed that Nick - incredibly atmospheric. Thank you,
> 
> Dave Newbitt
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Nick Ware via Tech1
> Sent: Friday, January 3, 2020 6:04 PM
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: [Tech1] Steam
> 
> For steam enthusiasts - I know you?re in there!
> youtube.com/watch?v=AK5mM8hXGfc
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  5 04:39:11 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 10:39:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Spudger...
Message-ID: <d667973a-1900-8543-3d10-1af9bdfa3d75@gmail.com>

...is a word I'd never heard before Friday. It has a sort of basic 
resonance - spudger, spudger, spudger.?? It brings to mind those 
'Answers to Correspondents' columns in Private Eye -


"A spudger is, as any literate person knows, a device used by the lower 
classes to prepare elements of dinner whilst their betters are at the 
afternoon shoot.? The spudger is placed in contact with a potato and 
moved sideways, thus removing the skin. The word is derived from spud, 
which is what the below decks crew on Sir Walter Raleigh's ship called 
the potato because they couldn't spell the word. Not that they could 
spell spud either.

Yours sincerely

Major Sir Marmaduke Fortescu-Smythe-Cholmondley (rtd)"

+++++++++++++++++++++++


"As ever, my husband is away with the fairies, or possibly addled from 
the drinks from the hip flask he takes on his 'shoots'. I don't believe 
they ever see a pheasant, being too pissed to stand, mostly.? A spudger 
is a device used in needlework, held by a servant whilst the lady of the 
house explains how to darn a stocking using said implement and a needle 
and thread. The servant then leaves for her quarters muttering some 
small obeisance under her breath, and returns later with the job completed.

Your sincerely

Lady Esmerelda Fortescu-Smythe-Cholmondley"

++++++++++++++++++++++

"Oh leave it out. Neither of them know their spudgers from their bums. A 
spudger is a flat piece of wood used to persuade the horses back into 
their stalls when they come back from the shoot. My name is Mellors and 
I know 'cos I've been ostler here man and boy.? Course, every so often 
'er ladyship comes down here looking for a damn good spudging - a 
completely different word derived from the Anglo-Saxon....."
/(....cont P 94)/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200105/b6fd1e85/attachment.html>

From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sun Jan  5 05:25:06 2020
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 11:25:06 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Spudger...
In-Reply-To: <d667973a-1900-8543-3d10-1af9bdfa3d75@gmail.com>
References: <d667973a-1900-8543-3d10-1af9bdfa3d75@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007FF6C6D2224DA3843BD2FFF8DF8C13@Gigabyte>

On a slightly similar vein, this is a grab of an article in Evening Standard last week.
Worth a grin!
Not yet tidied up but here goes!

Mike

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2020 10:39 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: [Tech1] Spudger...

...is a word I'd never heard before Friday. It has a sort of basic resonance - spudger, spudger, spudger.   It brings to mind those 'Answers to Correspondents' columns in Private Eye -


"A spudger is, as any literate person knows, a device used by the lower classes to prepare elements of dinner whilst their betters are at the afternoon shoot.  The spudger is placed in contact with a potato and moved sideways, thus removing the skin. The word is derived from spud, which is what the below decks crew on Sir Walter Raleigh's ship called the potato because they couldn't spell the word. Not that they could spell spud either.

Yours sincerely

Major Sir Marmaduke Fortescu-Smythe-Cholmondley (rtd)"
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200105/cdf00678/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 88 English phrases that confuse anybody.doc
Type: application/msword
Size: 77312 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200105/cdf00678/attachment.doc>

From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Jan  5 05:41:24 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 11:41:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Spudger...
In-Reply-To: <d667973a-1900-8543-3d10-1af9bdfa3d75@gmail.com>
References: <d667973a-1900-8543-3d10-1af9bdfa3d75@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CE25336E-6977-4BFE-8CF4-E63B74ECDA0F@me.com>

In modern usage, a spudger is also a name given to a plastic tool used to prise open the cases of electronic equipment which has been designed to snap together.

I've got a set of six assorted spudgers and they come in very useful for prising open faulty electronic items, or for jobs such as neatly tucking cables for your sat nav or phone into the space between the glass and the interior trim or headlining of your car.  They don't mark or scratch in the way that screwdrivers and putty knives can do when used for a similar tasks.

Alan Taylor



On 5 Jan 2020, at 5 Jan . 10:39, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> ...is a word I'd never heard before Friday. It has a sort of basic resonance - spudger, spudger, spudger.   It brings to mind those 'Answers to Correspondents' columns in Private Eye -
> 
> 
> "A spudger is, as any literate person knows, a device used by the lower classes to prepare elements of dinner whilst their betters are at the afternoon shoot.  The spudger is placed in contact with a potato and moved sideways, thus removing the skin. The word is derived from spud, which is what the below decks crew on Sir Walter Raleigh's ship called the potato because they couldn't spell the word. Not that they could spell spud either.
> 
> Yours sincerely
> 
> Major Sir Marmaduke Fortescu-Smythe-Cholmondley (rtd)"
> 
> +++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> 
> "As ever, my husband is away with the fairies, or possibly addled from the drinks from the hip flask he takes on his 'shoots'. I don't believe they ever see a pheasant, being too pissed to stand, mostly.  A spudger is a device used in needlework, held by a servant whilst the lady of the house explains how to darn a stocking using said implement and a needle and thread. The servant then leaves for her quarters muttering some small obeisance under her breath, and returns later with the job completed.
> 
> Your sincerely
> 
> Lady Esmerelda Fortescu-Smythe-Cholmondley"
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> "Oh leave it out. Neither of them know their spudgers from their bums. A spudger is a flat piece of wood used to persuade the horses back into their stalls when they come back from the shoot. My name is Mellors and I know 'cos I've been ostler here man and boy.  Course, every so often 'er ladyship comes down here looking for a damn good spudging - a completely different word derived from the Anglo-Saxon....." 
> (....cont P 94)
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200105/32317534/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  5 07:14:57 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 13:14:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Spudger...
In-Reply-To: <CE25336E-6977-4BFE-8CF4-E63B74ECDA0F@me.com>
References: <d667973a-1900-8543-3d10-1af9bdfa3d75@gmail.com>
	<CE25336E-6977-4BFE-8CF4-E63B74ECDA0F@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyGLwxwm-VjW5L3KLL0VsbVZ1XKJm14yhjoiPTts_UGObA@mail.gmail.com>

The spudgers that came with my OnePlus3 internal USB connector kit were
both too fat and too soft, so I've ordered better from eBay.

B

On Sun, 5 Jan 2020, 11:41 Alan Taylor via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> In modern usage, a spudger is also a name given to a plastic tool used to
> prise open the cases of electronic equipment which has been designed to
> snap together.
>
> I've got a set of six assorted spudgers and they come in very useful for
> prising open faulty electronic items, or for jobs such as neatly tucking
> cables for your sat nav or phone into the space between the glass and the
> interior trim or headlining of your car.  They don't mark or scratch in the
> way that screwdrivers and putty knives can do when used for a similar tasks.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
> On 5 Jan 2020, at 5 Jan . 10:39, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ...is a word I'd never heard before Friday. It has a sort of basic
> resonance - spudger, spudger, spudger.   It brings to mind those 'Answers
> to Correspondents' columns in Private Eye -
>
>
> "A spudger is, as any literate person knows, a device used by the lower
> classes to prepare elements of dinner whilst their betters are at the
> afternoon shoot.  The spudger is placed in contact with a potato and moved
> sideways, thus removing the skin. The word is derived from spud, which is
> what the below decks crew on Sir Walter Raleigh's ship called the potato
> because they couldn't spell the word. Not that they could spell spud either.
>
> Yours sincerely
>
> Major Sir Marmaduke Fortescu-Smythe-Cholmondley (rtd)"
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> "As ever, my husband is away with the fairies, or possibly addled from the
> drinks from the hip flask he takes on his 'shoots'. I don't believe they
> ever see a pheasant, being too pissed to stand, mostly.  A spudger is a
> device used in needlework, held by a servant whilst the lady of the house
> explains how to darn a stocking using said implement and a needle and
> thread. The servant then leaves for her quarters muttering some small
> obeisance under her breath, and returns later with the job completed.
>
> Your sincerely
>
> Lady Esmerelda Fortescu-Smythe-Cholmondley"
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> "Oh leave it out. Neither of them know their spudgers from their bums. A
> spudger is a flat piece of wood used to persuade the horses back into their
> stalls when they come back from the shoot. My name is Mellors and I know
> 'cos I've been ostler here man and boy.  Course, every so often 'er
> ladyship comes down here looking for a damn good spudging - a completely
> different word derived from the Anglo-Saxon....."
> *(....cont P 94)*
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200105/14098ab6/attachment.html>

From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Jan  5 12:37:57 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 18:37:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
Message-ID: <3d0ba402-0b24-2ab6-7cbe-3737aeb17d5b@btinternet.com>

On the last night for displaying my Christmas lights outside I was 
wondering why only half of them came on. I went outside and discovered 
that some anti-social creature had chewed through the low-voltage 
bell-wire in two places! I've a good mind to repair it and leave it with 
mains on it! (having de-rigged my LEDs of course!). Cheers, Dave



From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Jan  5 17:13:10 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 23:13:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wine corkscrews
Message-ID: <6a237c55-f05c-cb48-9738-3c3360644d49@btinternet.com>

I have never bought a wine bottle corkscrew as such but seem to have 
inherited several from the de-rigs at the 'Horse of the Year' show in 
Olympia where the catering staff sem to be more interested in getting 
home than anything! However, I had a mini-disaster before Christmas when 
the 'real' cork split in half in my favourite bottle of red! I tried 
several of the corkscrews but they weren't interested in biting into 
what was left of the cork. Only one, branded 'Bacchus' did the job and 
the situation was solved. The difference was that the Bacchus wire screw 
was in the shape of a figure 8, i.e. it had a groove down the length of 
the spiral, all the others were just plain circular in cross-section. 
Isn't science wonderful? Cheers, hic, Dave



From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sun Jan  5 17:22:33 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 23:22:33 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wine corkscrews
In-Reply-To: <6a237c55-f05c-cb48-9738-3c3360644d49@btinternet.com>
References: <6a237c55-f05c-cb48-9738-3c3360644d49@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <50AC35B996114465ADC47DA2C5D87A26@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

I bet not many people know that!

Dave Newbitt.

-----Original Message----- 
From: dave.mdv via Tech1 
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 11:13 PM 
To: Phil ; Pete ; Dave ; Dave ; Dave ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: [Tech1] Wine corkscrews 

I have never bought a wine bottle corkscrew as such but seem to have 
inherited several from the de-rigs at the 'Horse of the Year' show in 
Olympia where the catering staff sem to be more interested in getting 
home than anything! However, I had a mini-disaster before Christmas when 
the 'real' cork split in half in my favourite bottle of red! I tried 
several of the corkscrews but they weren't interested in biting into 
what was left of the cork. Only one, branded 'Bacchus' did the job and 
the situation was solved. The difference was that the Bacchus wire screw 
was in the shape of a figure 8, i.e. it had a groove down the length of 
the spiral, all the others were just plain circular in cross-section. 
Isn't science wonderful? Cheers, hic, Dave


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Jan  5 17:38:34 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2020 23:38:34 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Knowledge
Message-ID: <be24ed80-552e-0cba-2bc5-9b30146b8971@btinternet.com>

It's amazing what you can learn from this wonderful newsgroup! I await 
with baited breath for the next earth-shattering revelation! Cheers, 
Dave. HNY!



From mibridge at mac.com  Sun Jan  5 18:42:40 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 00:42:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wine corkscrews
In-Reply-To: <6a237c55-f05c-cb48-9738-3c3360644d49@btinternet.com>
References: <6a237c55-f05c-cb48-9738-3c3360644d49@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <133E75D6-FB3C-43A7-A5F2-C1F3B64BE68B@mac.com>

For clarety, Dave, (misspelling intended) do you mean two grooves? One groove would seem to produce a cardioid. 

I fancy I recall somebody demonstrating how to remove corks using sash cord - probably Stephen Fry on QI. 

MIke G

> On 5 Jan 2020, at 23:13, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I have never bought a wine bottle corkscrew as such but seem to have inherited several from the de-rigs at the 'Horse of the Year' show in Olympia where the catering staff sem to be more interested in getting home than anything! However, I had a mini-disaster before Christmas when the 'real' cork split in half in my favourite bottle of red! I tried several of the corkscrews but they weren't interested in biting into what was left of the cork. Only one, branded 'Bacchus' did the job and the situation was solved. The difference was that the Bacchus wire screw was in the shape of a figure 8, i.e. it had a groove down the length of the spiral, all the others were just plain circular in cross-section. Isn't science wonderful? Cheers, hic, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From phider at gmx.com  Mon Jan  6 01:07:57 2020
From: phider at gmx.com (phider)
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 07:07:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <3d0ba402-0b24-2ab6-7cbe-3737aeb17d5b@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1MF3DM-1iuyCo08XQ-00FQuL@mail.gmx.com>

Vis a vis nibbling cables.We were given a birdbox with a built in camera which I rigged on a very large eucalyptus tree. The very long cable reached back to our tv in the lounge and produced an excellent picture.?Many small birds recced the box but the 'for sale' board remained in place. No takers in the second year but the camera continued to produce an? excellent picture. I would watch small birds poke their beaks in but that was as far as it would go.?Then the picture disappeared and I discovered that the bright green cable had been cut at six foot intervals by a set of very small knashers. If the nibbler attempts to bite through my garden power socket cable he may, with luck, get a terminal belt.Happy New Year to all TechoviansPeter HiderSent from Samsung Mobile on O2
-------- Original message --------From: "dave.mdv via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 05/01/2020  18:37  (GMT+00:00) To: Phil <phil at philwthomas.plus.com>, Pete <pete.m.thomas456 at gmail.com>, Dave <daidor24 at wendoveremail.co.uk>, Dave <davelebreton at btinternet.com>, Dave <d.cjennings at btinternet.com>, tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Lights On the last night for displaying my Christmas lights outside I was wondering why only half of them came on. I went outside and discovered that some anti-social creature had chewed through the low-voltage bell-wire in two places! I've a good mind to repair it and leave it with mains on it! (having de-rigged my LEDs of course!). Cheers, Dave-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/4ce95d8f/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  6 03:54:19 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 09:54:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Mike Chislett
In-Reply-To: <001001d5c430$601daed0$20590c70$@sympatico.ca>
References: <001001d5c430$601daed0$20590c70$@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <899c4a75-6649-9585-147a-8993a3e4dabc@ntlworld.com>

FW:


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	Mike Chislett
Date: 	Sun, 5 Jan 2020 20:26:52 -0500
From: 	Michael Du Boulay <mduboulay at sympatico.ca>
To: 	Michael Du Boulay <mduboulay at sympatico.ca>



Happy New Year Mary, Bernie and Peter;

I learned through Mary Rider?s Christmas card that Mike Chislett had 
passed. My conversation with Peter Hider recently suggested that his 
passing was back in the summertime.He and I travelled together for part 
of a motorcycle trip circa 1964.I?ve attached my only picture of him 
posing near his bike.Mine?s in foreground.May God rest his soul.

regards to all,

Mike Du Boulay

BBC-TV ~ March 1963 to June 1966

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/f10121ac/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Slide087.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 193747 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/f10121ac/attachment.jpg>

From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Mon Jan  6 04:12:20 2020
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 10:12:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <1MF3DM-1iuyCo08XQ-00FQuL@mail.gmx.com>
References: <1MF3DM-1iuyCo08XQ-00FQuL@mail.gmx.com>
Message-ID: <99299976-CA4D-4632-97DB-30E79D96FDCA@btinternet.com>

Eucalyptus tree???..maybe you?ve got a rogue koala bear!!
Barry.



On 6 Jan 2020, at 07:07, phider via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Vis a vis nibbling cables.
> We were given a birdbox with a built in camera which I rigged on a very large eucalyptus tree. The very long cable reached back to our tv in the lounge and produced an excellent picture.
>  Many small birds recced the box but the 'for sale' board remained in place. No takers in the second year but the camera continued to produce an  excellent picture. I would watch small birds poke their beaks in but that was as far as it would go. 
> Then the picture disappeared and I discovered that the bright green cable had been cut at six foot intervals by a set of very small knashers. If the nibbler attempts to bite through my garden power socket cable he may, with luck, get a terminal belt.
> Happy New Year to all Techovians
> Peter Hider
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Samsung Mobile on O2
> 
> -------- Original message --------
> From: "dave.mdv via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: 05/01/2020 18:37 (GMT+00:00)
> To: Phil <phil at philwthomas.plus.com>, Pete <pete.m.thomas456 at gmail.com>, Dave <daidor24 at wendoveremail.co.uk>, Dave <davelebreton at btinternet.com>, Dave <d.cjennings at btinternet.com>, tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: [Tech1] Lights
> 
> On the last night for displaying my Christmas lights outside I was 
> wondering why only half of them came on. I went outside and discovered 
> that some anti-social creature had chewed through the low-voltage 
> bell-wire in two places! I've a good mind to repair it and leave it with 
> mains on it! (having de-rigged my LEDs of course!). Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/98fa99a1/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  6 04:23:38 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 10:23:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Energy costs
Message-ID: <44894337-a567-8770-d0e6-798774e4ebc8@gmail.com>

My yearly contract with Ovo has come up for renewal for the second time, 
and I remembered that last year I asked what others were paying.

I normally change supplier each year, and two years ago I moved from 
First Utility to Ovo. They were on the various switching sites lists, 
and I liked their ethics. This time last year I stayed with them for 
that reason. Mistake!? The price in the second year turned out to be up 
quite a bit, and I was pleased when this year's end of contract notice 
arrived a couple of days ago.

I usually wander round the switching sites and see what available, and 
this is what I did again, starting this time with uSwitch. There seem to 
be lots of small eager companies I've never heard of out there, but on 
Comparethemeerkat there was Shell Energy with a good deal, and I took 
that.? Shell is, I believe, quite a big company.? So, here are the rates 
from Ovo and Shell - it's obvious why I'm changing again -

Gas
Ovo Unit rate? - 3.72 per kWh.
Shell unit rate? - 2.826 per kWh

Ovo standing charge - 27.4p per day.
Shell standing charge - 16.91p per day

-----------------------

Electricity
Ovo Unit rate? - 17.28 per kWh.
Shell unit rate? - 15.93 per kWh

Ovo standing charge - 27.40p per day.
Shell standing charge - 23.44p per day

So - what are others paying? Is this a reasonable deal?? Do you change 
each year, as I should have last year?

B
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/b969537f/attachment.html>

From waresound at msn.com  Mon Jan  6 04:35:33 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 10:35:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <1MF3DM-1iuyCo08XQ-00FQuL@mail.gmx.com>
References: <3d0ba402-0b24-2ab6-7cbe-3737aeb17d5b@btinternet.com>,
	<1MF3DM-1iuyCo08XQ-00FQuL@mail.gmx.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271344056028BB7CF127A2EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Nibbling cables - ah that reminds me of a story about a movie I once worked on .......no just joking!

But seriously, have you folk discovered step-dimmable LED bulbs? Our kitchen has five GU10 three-lamp ceiling mounted chandelier thingies (15 bulbs in all). Most of the time, with 5Watt LED?s that?s far too bright, and old style dimmers don?t work with LED?s. And most LED capable dimmers won?t handle 15 bulbs. Step-dimmables give three dim levels by flicking the switch on and off up to three times. (So: full, three quarters, half, and a quarter). We?ve found these excellent, and by having one non-dimmable spot LED in two of the fittings, we can keep the table in the middle of the room highlighted with the rest of the room subdued to a cuddly romantic level while the Prosecco glistens resplendently. (I?m still working on the cuddly romantic bedroom lighting - doesn?t seem to be working as well as hoped!!) (hands up, Christmas came and went, who got lucky?)

Pro Elec step-dimmable (3000K) wide angle warm white LED. CPC order number LP1012502 @ ?1.98. +VAT (pk of 5). Similar available on Amazon Prime.
Cheers,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 6 Jan 2020, at 07:08, phider via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Vis a vis nibbling cables.
We were given a birdbox with a built in camera which I rigged on a very large eucalyptus tree. The very long cable reached back to our tv in the lounge and produced an excellent picture.
 Many small birds recced the box but the 'for sale' board remained in place. No takers in the second year but the camera continued to produce an  excellent picture. I would watch small birds poke their beaks in but that was as far as it would go.
Then the picture disappeared and I discovered that the bright green cable had been cut at six foot intervals by a set of very small knashers. If the nibbler attempts to bite through my garden power socket cable he may, with luck, get a terminal belt.
Happy New Year to all Techovians
Peter Hider




Sent from Samsung Mobile on O2

-------- Original message --------
From: "dave.mdv via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Date: 05/01/2020 18:37 (GMT+00:00)
To: Phil <phil at philwthomas.plus.com>, Pete <pete.m.thomas456 at gmail.com>, Dave <daidor24 at wendoveremail.co.uk>, Dave <davelebreton at btinternet.com>, Dave <d.cjennings at btinternet.com>, tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Lights

On the last night for displaying my Christmas lights outside I was
wondering why only half of them came on. I went outside and discovered
that some anti-social creature had chewed through the low-voltage
bell-wire in two places! I've a good mind to repair it and leave it with
mains on it! (having de-rigged my LEDs of course!). Cheers, Dave


--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/f20a3c4f/attachment.html>

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Jan  6 04:55:48 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 10:55:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <1MF3DM-1iuyCo08XQ-00FQuL@mail.gmx.com>
References: <1MF3DM-1iuyCo08XQ-00FQuL@mail.gmx.com>
Message-ID: <f6099a7d-dc38-ea26-f923-c58ef8209a60@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 06/01/2020 07:07, phider via Tech1 wrote:
> Vis a vis nibbling cables.
> ....If the nibbler attempts to bite through my garden power socket 
> cable he may, with luck, get a terminal belt.

A few years back I suffered from intermittent earth leakage breaker 
dropouts in a barn and associated garage, over a period of a month or 
two. Eventually, by disconnecting different circuits I managed to 
pinpoint the one at fault. I painstakingly traced the cable until it 
went through an 18" block wall. From either side the cable was fine so 
there was nothing for it but to cut the line and pull it out. Right in 
the middle was a very chewed section, and a very disgusting, partially 
fried mouse carcase. It required the use of a number of "pull-throughs" 
to remove mammal and maggot remains and reinstall? a new cable.

At least a chewed wire in the open air is easy to diagnose!

Chris Woolf




From mibridge at mac.com  Mon Jan  6 05:31:39 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 11:31:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <99299976-CA4D-4632-97DB-30E79D96FDCA@btinternet.com>
References: <99299976-CA4D-4632-97DB-30E79D96FDCA@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <D05C2D25-D7A1-4D22-A6A9-846E77D916C6@mac.com>

I thought you were going to say that the tree grew so fast it stretched the cable! Rats or squirrels bit through the mains cable that fed our greenhouse, but there was. I corpse you be found. 

Mike G

> On 6 Jan 2020, at 10:34, Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Eucalyptus tree???..maybe you?ve got a rogue koala bear!!
> Barry.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 6 Jan 2020, at 07:07, phider via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Vis a vis nibbling cables.
>> We were given a birdbox with a built in camera which I rigged on a very large eucalyptus tree. The very long cable reached back to our tv in the lounge and produced an excellent picture.
>>  Many small birds recced the box but the 'for sale' board remained in place. No takers in the second year but the camera continued to produce an  excellent picture. I would watch small birds poke their beaks in but that was as far as it would go. 
>> Then the picture disappeared and I discovered that the bright green cable had been cut at six foot intervals by a set of very small knashers. If the nibbler attempts to bite through my garden power socket cable he may, with luck, get a terminal belt.
>> Happy New Year to all Techovians
>> Peter Hider
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from Samsung Mobile on O2
>> 
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: "dave.mdv via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Date: 05/01/2020 18:37 (GMT+00:00)
>> To: Phil <phil at philwthomas.plus.com>, Pete <pete.m.thomas456 at gmail.com>, Dave <daidor24 at wendoveremail.co.uk>, Dave <davelebreton at btinternet.com>, Dave <d.cjennings at btinternet.com>, tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Subject: [Tech1] Lights
>> 
>> On the last night for displaying my Christmas lights outside I was 
>> wondering why only half of them came on. I went outside and discovered 
>> that some anti-social creature had chewed through the low-voltage 
>> bell-wire in two places! I've a good mind to repair it and leave it with 
>> mains on it! (having de-rigged my LEDs of course!). Cheers, Dave
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/82fce5fd/attachment.html>

From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Mon Jan  6 06:05:08 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 12:05:08 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271344056028BB7CF127A2EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <3d0ba402-0b24-2ab6-7cbe-3737aeb17d5b@btinternet.com>,
	<1MF3DM-1iuyCo08XQ-00FQuL@mail.gmx.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271344056028BB7CF127A2EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <9FE2DC9410514CF5A5F52C81139D0CC2@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Interesting topic this. I have found that, where the loading requirements can feasibly be met, the Varilight V-Pro range of dimmers are pretty good. 

Additionally I have always had a significant interest in CRI figures for lamps, principally because, as a professional freelance artist and illustrator my wife was always concerned for the light quality in her (home) studio. Inevitably the awareness spread to the house lighting generally.

With LED lamps there has been significant improvement, both with GU10s and other forms, so that figures of 97 are now attained by several including, for example, some from the Philips Master ?ExpertColor? range (their spelling of colour not mine!). I have in use a large number of their dimmable 5.5W lamps which have a CRI of 97. The code on the lamps is 9290013474. These are the 3000K versions giving 375 lm with a 36 deg. beam angle and an energy rating of A+. Because I have a lot in use I have been able to buy them in 10?s which eases the expense somewhat but they are not cheap. As ever with Philips Lighting the order codes, EAN references etc. need half a sheet of A4 but at the end of the minefield lie some very good products.

I came across the attached info re measurement of colour accuracy in lamps which might be of interest.

Dave Newbitt. 

From: Nick Ware via Tech1 
Sent: Monday, January 6, 2020 10:35 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lights

Nibbling cables - ah that reminds me of a story about a movie I once worked on .......no just joking! 

But seriously, have you folk discovered step-dimmable LED bulbs? Our kitchen has five GU10 three-lamp ceiling mounted chandelier thingies (15 bulbs in all). Most of the time, with 5Watt LED?s that?s far too bright, and old style dimmers don?t work with LED?s. And most LED capable dimmers won?t handle 15 bulbs. Step-dimmables give three dim levels by flicking the switch on and off up to three times. (So: full, three quarters, half, and a quarter). We?ve found these excellent, and by having one non-dimmable spot LED in two of the fittings, we can keep the table in the middle of the room highlighted with the rest of the room subdued to a cuddly romantic level while the Prosecco glistens resplendently. (I?m still working on the cuddly romantic bedroom lighting - doesn?t seem to be working as well as hoped!!) (hands up, Christmas came and went, who got lucky?)

Pro Elec step-dimmable (3000K) wide angle warm white LED. CPC order number LP1012502 @ ?1.98. +VAT (pk of 5). Similar available on Amazon Prime.
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad mini 5


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/765e4a49/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Colour Rendering Index OF LAMPS.docx
Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document
Size: 14248 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/765e4a49/attachment.docx>

From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Mon Jan  6 06:21:23 2020
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 12:21:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <9FE2DC9410514CF5A5F52C81139D0CC2@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <9FE2DC9410514CF5A5F52C81139D0CC2@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <0B769E7D-C09B-4091-9DEA-3F57ABCCB7EF@zero51.force9.co.uk>

My Lady suggests that the Prosecco may be the problem, try Bollinger or Cointreau perhaps? Of course there?s no going back then.

Peter Fox

> On 6 Jan 2020, at 12:05, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Interesting topic this. I have found that, where the loading requirements can feasibly be met, the Varilight V-Pro range of dimmers are pretty good.
>  
> Additionally I have always had a significant interest in CRI figures for lamps, principally because, as a professional freelance artist and illustrator my wife was always concerned for the light quality in her (home) studio. Inevitably the awareness spread to the house lighting generally.
>  
> With LED lamps there has been significant improvement, both with GU10s and other forms, so that figures of 97 are now attained by several including, for example, some from the Philips Master ?ExpertColor? range (their spelling of colour not mine!). I have in use a large number of their dimmable 5.5W lamps which have a CRI of 97. The code on the lamps is 9290013474. These are the 3000K versions giving 375 lm with a 36 deg. beam angle and an energy rating of A+. Because I have a lot in use I have been able to buy them in 10?s which eases the expense somewhat but they are not cheap. As ever with Philips Lighting the order codes, EAN references etc. need half a sheet of A4 but at the end of the minefield lie some very good products.
>  
> I came across the attached info re measurement of colour accuracy in lamps which might be of interest.
>  
> Dave Newbitt.
>  
> From: Nick Ware via Tech1
> Sent: Monday, January 6, 2020 10:35 AM
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lights
>  
> Nibbling cables - ah that reminds me of a story about a movie I once worked on .......no just joking!
>  
> But seriously, have you folk discovered step-dimmable LED bulbs? Our kitchen has five GU10 three-lamp ceiling mounted chandelier thingies (15 bulbs in all). Most of the time, with 5Watt LED?s that?s far too bright, and old style dimmers don?t work with LED?s. And most LED capable dimmers won?t handle 15 bulbs. Step-dimmables give three dim levels by flicking the switch on and off up to three times. (So: full, three quarters, half, and a quarter). We?ve found these excellent, and by having one non-dimmable spot LED in two of the fittings, we can keep the table in the middle of the room highlighted with the rest of the room subdued to a cuddly romantic level while the Prosecco glistens resplendently. (I?m still working on the cuddly romantic bedroom lighting - doesn?t seem to be working as well as hoped!!) (hands up, Christmas came and went, who got lucky?)
>  
> Pro Elec step-dimmable (3000K) wide angle warm white LED. CPC order number LP1012502 @ ?1.98. +VAT (pk of 5). Similar available on Amazon Prime.
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> <Colour Rendering Index OF LAMPS.docx>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/8482ebe6/attachment.html>

From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Mon Jan  6 06:39:16 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 12:39:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Christmas Lights Storage
Message-ID: <1AC3FA05-D7C8-4961-921E-CA780B928E1B@vincent68.plus.com>

Putting away Christmas lights for next year I've tried to do a version of Roadie Wrap that I learnt about last year. Didn't work!

Any storage suggestions gratefully received.

Happy New Year to all

John V

From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Mon Jan  6 06:39:58 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 12:39:58 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Energy costs
In-Reply-To: <44894337-a567-8770-d0e6-798774e4ebc8@gmail.com>
References: <44894337-a567-8770-d0e6-798774e4ebc8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26DA37E765E9484C86A4D681AED6F97B@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Hi Bernie,

I last changed just over 18 months ago ? to Bulb in my case and I have stayed with them. Their charge to me has not rocketed up at all and currently stand as the figures for dual fuel supply given here:-

Electricity   Standing charge 19.47p/day, unit rate 13.81p/KWh      (supply profile includes 33% renewable).

Gas   Standing charge (same as elec) 19.47p/day, unit rate 3.59p/KWh.

Obviously the comparative value against other suppliers hinges on the balance of usage of the two fuels, but where the Bulb profile fits with one?s requirements it seems pretty good.

Re small companies generally, I attach an article looking at collapses and their consequences. Stupidly I seem not to have recorded the date but it wasn?t that long ago.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
Sent: Monday, January 6, 2020 10:23 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: [Tech1] Energy costs

My yearly contract with Ovo has come up for renewal for the second time, and I remembered that last year I asked what others were paying. 

I normally change supplier each year, and two years ago I moved from First Utility to Ovo. They were on the various switching sites lists, and I liked their ethics. This time last year I stayed with them for that reason. Mistake!  The price in the second year turned out to be up quite a bit, and I was pleased when this year's end of contract notice arrived a couple of days ago.

I usually wander round the switching sites and see what available, and this is what I did again, starting this time with uSwitch. There seem to be lots of small eager companies I've never heard of out there, but on Comparethemeerkat there was Shell Energy with a good deal, and I took that.  Shell is, I believe, quite a big company.  So, here are the rates from Ovo and Shell - it's obvious why I'm changing again - 

Gas
Ovo Unit rate  - 3.72 per kWh.  
Shell unit rate  - 2.826 per kWh

Ovo standing charge - 27.4p per day. 
Shell standing charge - 16.91p per day

-----------------------

Electricity
Ovo Unit rate  - 17.28 per kWh.  
Shell unit rate  - 15.93 per kWh

Ovo standing charge - 27.40p per day. 
Shell standing charge - 23.44p per day

So - what are others paying? Is this a reasonable deal?  Do you change each year, as I should have last year?

B



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/b0f4db54/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Energy supply firms collapsing.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1320978 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/b0f4db54/attachment.jpe>

From waresound at msn.com  Mon Jan  6 06:53:04 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 12:53:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Christmas Lights Storage
In-Reply-To: <1AC3FA05-D7C8-4961-921E-CA780B928E1B@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <1AC3FA05-D7C8-4961-921E-CA780B928E1B@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271583DB1F5BC496FB7EFEBA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Ours go onto a piece of plywood with a V cut at each end - in effect, a flat bobbin.
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 6 Jan 2020, at 12:39, John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Putting away Christmas lights for next year I've tried to do a version of Roadie Wrap that I learnt about last year. Didn't work!
> 
> Any storage suggestions gratefully received.
> 
> Happy New Year to all
> 
> John V
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From Waresound at msn.com  Mon Jan  6 07:05:51 2020
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 13:05:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <9FE2DC9410514CF5A5F52C81139D0CC2@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <3d0ba402-0b24-2ab6-7cbe-3737aeb17d5b@btinternet.com>,
	<1MF3DM-1iuyCo08XQ-00FQuL@mail.gmx.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271344056028BB7CF127A2EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<9FE2DC9410514CF5A5F52C81139D0CC2@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02712B00D30CDAC80196755EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

On the subject of dimmers and LED?s, I believe it has something to do with leading or trailing edge function. The wrong type can pop a LED pretty quickly, even if the load minimum is met.
I usually hope Chris Woolf will come forward with reliable info on topics like this!
Cheers,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 6 Jan 2020, at 12:05, David Newbitt <dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net> wrote:

?
Interesting topic this. I have found that, where the loading requirements can feasibly be met, the Varilight V-Pro range of dimmers are pretty good.

Additionally I have always had a significant interest in CRI figures for lamps, principally because, as a professional freelance artist and illustrator my wife was always concerned for the light quality in her (home) studio. Inevitably the awareness spread to the house lighting generally.

With LED lamps there has been significant improvement, both with GU10s and other forms, so that figures of 97 are now attained by several including, for example, some from the Philips Master ?ExpertColor? range (their spelling of colour not mine!). I have in use a large number of their dimmable 5.5W lamps which have a CRI of 97. The code on the lamps is 9290013474. These are the 3000K versions giving 375 lm with a 36 deg. beam angle and an energy rating of A+. Because I have a lot in use I have been able to buy them in 10?s which eases the expense somewhat but they are not cheap. As ever with Philips Lighting the order codes, EAN references etc. need half a sheet of A4 but at the end of the minefield lie some very good products.

I came across the attached info re measurement of colour accuracy in lamps which might be of interest.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: Monday, January 6, 2020 10:35 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lights

Nibbling cables - ah that reminds me of a story about a movie I once worked on .......no just joking!

But seriously, have you folk discovered step-dimmable LED bulbs? Our kitchen has five GU10 three-lamp ceiling mounted chandelier thingies (15 bulbs in all). Most of the time, with 5Watt LED?s that?s far too bright, and old style dimmers don?t work with LED?s. And most LED capable dimmers won?t handle 15 bulbs. Step-dimmables give three dim levels by flicking the switch on and off up to three times. (So: full, three quarters, half, and a quarter). We?ve found these excellent, and by having one non-dimmable spot LED in two of the fittings, we can keep the table in the middle of the room highlighted with the rest of the room subdued to a cuddly romantic level while the Prosecco glistens resplendently. (I?m still working on the cuddly romantic bedroom lighting - doesn?t seem to be working as well as hoped!!) (hands up, Christmas came and went, who got lucky?)

Pro Elec step-dimmable (3000K) wide angle warm white LED. CPC order number LP1012502 @ ?1.98. +VAT (pk of 5). Similar available on Amazon Prime.
Cheers,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

________________________________
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/2427b26a/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Colour Rendering Index OF LAMPS.docx
Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document
Size: 14248 bytes
Desc: Colour Rendering Index OF LAMPS.docx
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/2427b26a/attachment.docx>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/2427b26a/attachment.htm>

From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Mon Jan  6 07:18:04 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 13:18:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Christmas Lights Storage
Message-ID: <FAE75622-568C-4FEE-81F7-5B3BCC7D9AEE@vincent68.plus.com>

> Putting away Christmas lights for next year I've tried to do a version of Roadie Wrap that I learnt about last year. Didn't work!
> 
> Any storage suggestions gratefully received.
> 
> Happy New Year to all
> 
> John V



From dave at davesound.co.uk  Mon Jan  6 07:20:33 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 13:20:33 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Energy costs
In-Reply-To: <44894337-a567-8770-d0e6-798774e4ebc8@gmail.com>
References: <44894337-a567-8770-d0e6-798774e4ebc8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <582e19c6f8dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <44894337-a567-8770-d0e6-798774e4ebc8 at gmail.com>,
   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> My yearly contract with Ovo has come up for renewal for the second time, 
> and I remembered that last year I asked what others were paying.

> I normally change supplier each year, and two years ago I moved from 
> First Utility to Ovo. They were on the various switching sites lists, 
> and I liked their ethics. This time last year I stayed with them for 
> that reason. Mistake!  The price in the second year turned out to be up 
> quite a bit, and I was pleased when this year's end of contract notice 
> arrived a couple of days ago.

> I usually wander round the switching sites and see what available, and 
> this is what I did again, starting this time with uSwitch. There seem to 
> be lots of small eager companies I've never heard of out there, but on 
> Comparethemeerkat there was Shell Energy with a good deal, and I took 
> that.  Shell is, I believe, quite a big company.  So, here are the rates 
> from Ovo and Shell - it's obvious why I'm changing again -

> Gas
> Ovo Unit rate  - 3.72 per kWh.
> Shell unit rate  - 2.826 per kWh

> Ovo standing charge - 27.4p per day.
> Shell standing charge - 16.91p per day

> -----------------------

> Electricity
> Ovo Unit rate  - 17.28 per kWh.
> Shell unit rate  - 15.93 per kWh

> Ovo standing charge - 27.40p per day.
> Shell standing charge - 23.44p per day

> So - what are others paying? Is this a reasonable deal?  Do you change 
> each year, as I should have last year?

I found it a total minefield. Or even more correctly a mindfield for me.
So ages ago joined Flipper on the advice of a R4 consumer prog, and pay
them to do the work for me. They check I'm on the best deal each month,
and move me about every year. I have to do nothing myself, other than
supply meter readings each month.

At the moment I'm with People's Energy.

Electricity is 12.41524 with 21.2 per day.
Gas             2.74857      21.2

I'd say I'm a fairly high energy user. Old house. And still prefer
tungsten lamps to LED or whatever for living areas. Total energy bill
getting on for ?2000 a year.

-- 
*I wished the buck stopped here, as I could use a few*

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From dave at davesound.co.uk  Mon Jan  6 07:28:51 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 13:28:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271344056028BB7CF127A2EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <3d0ba402-0b24-2ab6-7cbe-3737aeb17d5b@btinternet.com>
	<1MF3DM-1iuyCo08XQ-00FQuL@mail.gmx.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271344056028BB7CF127A2EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <582e1a88b5dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article
<VI1P192MB0271344056028BB7CF127A2EA73C0 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
   Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> And most LED capable dimmers won?t handle 15 bulbs.

TLC certainly sell ones that do, although not cheap. It also is
programmable to set the minimum and maximum brightness. Fitted it into a
grid switch panel with other older dimmers quite easily, so it still
matches the other wiring accessories in the room.

-- 
*Rehab is for quitters

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Jan  6 07:35:47 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 13:35:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB02712B00D30CDAC80196755EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <3d0ba402-0b24-2ab6-7cbe-3737aeb17d5b@btinternet.com>
	<1MF3DM-1iuyCo08XQ-00FQuL@mail.gmx.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271344056028BB7CF127A2EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<9FE2DC9410514CF5A5F52C81139D0CC2@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<VI1P192MB02712B00D30CDAC80196755EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <dfe41a67-4eed-7b5f-5a81-6fa81facb89a@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Huh! Nick -'snot fair!

Leading edge dimmers - the older version - need to see a fairly high 
load to switch on properly. To operate they switch on part way through 
an AC cycle and produce a sharp inrush transient. For the lower loads 
that LEDs give you need a trailing edge type. These switch on from a 
zero point and switch ~off~ part way through the cycle. That provides a 
soft start to each cycle and tends to prevent the buzzing and other 
problems associated with the simpler leading edge types.

The risk of damage coming from using the wrong dimmer is largely due to 
interaction from multiple switching arrangements between dimmers and 
electronic transformers creating a lot of high level transients between 
conflicting kit.

Dimmers have got very complicated nowadays with some kit regulating 
average power into the circuit (as old fashioned dimmers did) and others 
sending control information to what becomes a network of local dimmers, 
situated in every lamp.

There is a small problem that LEDs don't retain their CRI with current 
controlled dimming. That's partly because of chip heating, and partly 
because the multiple phosphors used to convert blue LED light into 
green/yellow/orange/red glows don't react evenly to varying levels of 
excitation.

The best, though not perfect, form of dimming is to use high frequency 
PWM. This lights the LED at full power but only for a brief spike - 
changing the spike width alters the apparent brightness. This largely 
takes care of the phosphor excitation problem, gives very even dimming, 
but doesn't completely solve the chip temperature change.

PWM (if the frequency is high enough) avoids all the flicker/strobe 
problems that LEDs can suffer and can even be used for TV purposes with 
strobing.

That good enough, guv?

Chris Woolf


On 06/01/2020 13:05, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> On the subject of dimmers and LED?s, I believe it has something to do 
> with leading or trailing edge function. The wrong type can pop a LED 
> pretty quickly, even if the load minimum is met.
> I usually hope Chris Woolf will come forward with reliable info on 
> topics like this!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>> On 6 Jan 2020, at 12:05, David Newbitt <dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Interesting topic this. I have found that, where the loading 
>> requirements can feasibly be met, the Varilight V-Pro range of 
>> dimmers are pretty good.
>> Additionally I have always had a significant interest in CRI figures 
>> for lamps, principally because, as a professional freelance artist 
>> and illustrator my wife was always concerned for the light quality in 
>> her (home) studio. Inevitably the awareness spread to the house 
>> lighting generally.
>> With LED lamps there has been significant improvement, both with 
>> GU10s and other forms, so that figures of 97 are now attained by 
>> several including, for example, some from the Philips Master 
>> ?ExpertColor? range (their spelling of colour not mine!). I have in 
>> use a large number of their dimmable 5.5W lamps which have a CRI of 
>> 97. The code on the lamps is 9290013474. These are the 3000K versions 
>> giving 375 lm with a 36 deg. beam angle and an energy rating of A+. 
>> Because I have a lot in use I have been able to buy them in 10?s 
>> which eases the expense somewhat but they are not cheap. As ever with 
>> Philips Lighting the order codes, EAN references etc. need half a 
>> sheet of A4 but at the end of the minefield lie some very good products.
>> I came across the attached info re measurement of colour accuracy in 
>> lamps which might be of interest.
>> Dave Newbitt.
>> *From:* Nick Ware via Tech1
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 6, 2020 10:35 AM
>> *To:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Lights
>> Nibbling cables - ah that reminds me of a story about a movie I once 
>> worked on .......no just joking!
>> But seriously, have you folk discovered step-dimmable LED bulbs? Our 
>> kitchen has five GU10 three-lamp ceiling mounted chandelier thingies 
>> (15 bulbs in all). Most of the time, with 5Watt LED?s that?s far too 
>> bright, and old style dimmers don?t work with LED?s. And most LED 
>> capable dimmers won?t handle 15 bulbs. Step-dimmables give three dim 
>> levels by flicking the switch on and off up to three times. (So: 
>> full, three quarters, half, and a quarter). We?ve found these 
>> excellent, and by having one non-dimmable spot LED in two of the 
>> fittings, we can keep the table in the middle of the room highlighted 
>> with the rest of the room subdued to a cuddly romantic level while 
>> the Prosecco glistens resplendently. (I?m still working on the cuddly 
>> romantic bedroom lighting - doesn?t seem to be working as well as 
>> hoped!!) (hands up, Christmas came and went, who got lucky?)
>> Pro Elec step-dimmable (3000K) wide angle warm white LED. CPC order 
>> number LP1012502 @ ?1.98. +VAT (pk of 5). Similar available on Amazon 
>> Prime.
>> Cheers,
>> Nick.
>> Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/3f851fd3/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Mon Jan  6 07:33:28 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 13:33:28 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Miranda - for the sound types.
In-Reply-To: <5e1095ec.1c69fb81.21fd5.aa2b@mx.google.com>
References: <582c9de711dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<5e1095ec.1c69fb81.21fd5.aa2b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <582e1af4a7dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <5e1095ec.1c69fb81.21fd5.aa2b at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
> Probably because in the hair would be seen on camera. All the principals
> in ?42nd Street? (Theatre Royal Drury Lane) were miked, mostly with
> ?cheek? mics, but some of the girls and certainly the lead actress had
> the mic in the wigs.

Have a look at it on catch up. Plenty close ups, and no signs of a mic at
all. But did catch a lead going down a neck at one time.

A cheek mike would be silly on drama. But these sounded pretty well as
good as a boom mike. Which personals often don't.

-- 
*Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From peter.neill at icloud.com  Mon Jan  6 07:52:32 2020
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 13:52:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Christmas Lights Storage
In-Reply-To: <FAE75622-568C-4FEE-81F7-5B3BCC7D9AEE@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <FAE75622-568C-4FEE-81F7-5B3BCC7D9AEE@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <661A09EA-776E-4DA5-A3C7-16C676EAF7F1@icloud.com>

We have four sets of lights - two draped over draped over evergreen conifers which come down each year and which I just stuff loosely in carrier bags. 

The deciduous trees have them cable tied to follow branches and stay up all year. They?ve been up for two years now and are all still working (LEDs).
I wouldn?t have dared try that when they were still bulbs.

This year I added a new feature.
A laser projector onto a silver birch. Tiny pinpoints of light which hit the branches and make it look as though it?s covered with bulbs.
?20 from a BP petrol station.



Peter Neill





> On 6 Jan 2020, at 13:18, John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Putting away Christmas lights for next year I've tried to do a version of Roadie Wrap that I learnt about last year. Didn't work!
>> 
>> Any storage suggestions gratefully received.
>> 
>> Happy New Year to all
>> 
>> John V
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/a9e758ae/attachment.html>

From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Jan  6 08:25:11 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 14:25:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Christmas Lights Storage
In-Reply-To: <FAE75622-568C-4FEE-81F7-5B3BCC7D9AEE@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <FAE75622-568C-4FEE-81F7-5B3BCC7D9AEE@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <EAB90ADF-F435-48B9-9360-3D36EAF4E82B@me.com>

For as long as I can remember, I've rolled Christmas lights onto cardboard tubes from kitchen rolls, or lengths of cardboard postal tube for longer sets of lights. If you cut a notch in one end of the tube, you can tuck the first lamp into that notch and then roll up the rest very quickly and neatly. A second notch at the other end can be used to accommodate the plug end so that it stays put.

Next Christmas they unroll as easy as anything and no tangles.

Alan Taylor



On 6 Jan 2020, at 6 Jan . 13:18, John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

>> Putting away Christmas lights for next year I've tried to do a version of Roadie Wrap that I learnt about last year. Didn't work!
>> 
>> Any storage suggestions gratefully received.
>> 
>> Happy New Year to all
>> 
>> John V
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From tonynuttall at me.com  Mon Jan  6 08:25:57 2020
From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall)
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2020 14:25:57 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: OVO Energy
References: <114a42bf-1dd4-4d79-83b0-839a5b21c559@me.com>
Message-ID: <d30e10df-657a-4851-b249-7dd5704d46b9@me.com>



Begin forwarded message:

From: William Nuttall <tonynuttall at me.com>
Date: 06/01/2020
To: Bernard Newnham <bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com>
Subject: OVO Energy

I had been with OVO energy for 4 years. Advised to try OCTOPUS ENERGY:- ?https://octopus.energy
For me in Cumbria it worked out at a saving of ?150-00 per year. You enter your post code for an
instant quote.

Regards to all

Tony N in Cumbria
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/194b3a2e/attachment.html>

From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Mon Jan  6 08:44:45 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 14:44:45 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB02712B00D30CDAC80196755EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <3d0ba402-0b24-2ab6-7cbe-3737aeb17d5b@btinternet.com>,
	<1MF3DM-1iuyCo08XQ-00FQuL@mail.gmx.com><VI1P192MB0271344056028BB7CF127A2EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<9FE2DC9410514CF5A5F52C81139D0CC2@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<VI1P192MB02712B00D30CDAC80196755EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <A0E9405E2CBB482FA58F890F5DC2E670@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Maybe Chris is on a Caribbean Cruise so I?ll dare venture a little info.

Broadly, trailing edge dimmers work for LED?s, leading edge don?t. Trailing edge dimmers will however usually work with incandescent lamps.

Trailing edge dimmers did not just come about for LED?s and originally they had their max and min loading wattages expressed in terms of the wattage loading imposed by incandescent lamps, often 40-250 or 60-400. Where load capability was expressed in this form it was necessary to divide by 10 to give a total LED lamp capability of 4-25 or 6 ? 40 total respectively. The number of LED?s of a given wattage could therefore be calculated by simple division.

More recently some manufacturers with the focus mainly on LED lamps give ACTUAL wattage capability for loading. Here is an example of one from the Varilight range:-



This as you will see comfortably accommodates your 15 GU10?s and as there is no minimum loading would also work with just 1.

Dave Newbitt.


From: Nick Ware via Tech1 
Sent: Monday, January 6, 2020 1:05 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lights

On the subject of dimmers and LED?s, I believe it has something to do with leading or trailing edge function. The wrong type can pop a LED pretty quickly, even if the load minimum is met. 
I usually hope Chris Woolf will come forward with reliable info on topics like this!
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad mini 5


  On 6 Jan 2020, at 12:05, David Newbitt <dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net> wrote:


  ? 
  Interesting topic this. I have found that, where the loading requirements can feasibly be met, the Varilight V-Pro range of dimmers are pretty good. 

  Additionally I have always had a significant interest in CRI figures for lamps, principally because, as a professional freelance artist and illustrator my wife was always concerned for the light quality in her (home) studio. Inevitably the awareness spread to the house lighting generally.

  With LED lamps there has been significant improvement, both with GU10s and other forms, so that figures of 97 are now attained by several including, for example, some from the Philips Master ?ExpertColor? range (their spelling of colour not mine!). I have in use a large number of their dimmable 5.5W lamps which have a CRI of 97. The code on the lamps is 9290013474. These are the 3000K versions giving 375 lm with a 36 deg. beam angle and an energy rating of A+. Because I have a lot in use I have been able to buy them in 10?s which eases the expense somewhat but they are not cheap. As ever with Philips Lighting the order codes, EAN references etc. need half a sheet of A4 but at the end of the minefield lie some very good products.

  I came across the attached info re measurement of colour accuracy in lamps which might be of interest.

  Dave Newbitt. 

  From: Nick Ware via Tech1 
  Sent: Monday, January 6, 2020 10:35 AM
  To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
  Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lights

  Nibbling cables - ah that reminds me of a story about a movie I once worked on .......no just joking! 

  But seriously, have you folk discovered step-dimmable LED bulbs? Our kitchen has five GU10 three-lamp ceiling mounted chandelier thingies (15 bulbs in all). Most of the time, with 5Watt LED?s that?s far too bright, and old style dimmers don?t work with LED?s. And most LED capable dimmers won?t handle 15 bulbs. Step-dimmables give three dim levels by flicking the switch on and off up to three times. (So: full, three quarters, half, and a quarter). We?ve found these excellent, and by having one non-dimmable spot LED in two of the fittings, we can keep the table in the middle of the room highlighted with the rest of the room subdued to a cuddly romantic level while the Prosecco glistens resplendently. (I?m still working on the cuddly romantic bedroom lighting - doesn?t seem to be working as well as hoped!!) (hands up, Christmas came and went, who got lucky?)

  Pro Elec step-dimmable (3000K) wide angle warm white LED. CPC order number LP1012502 @ ?1.98. +VAT (pk of 5). Similar available on Amazon Prime.
  Cheers,
  Nick.

  Sent from my iPad mini 5


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  -- 
  Tech1 mailing list
  Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
  http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/963ea26d/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Varilight%20V-PRO%20JQP601W[3].jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 109375 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/963ea26d/attachment.jpg>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Jan  6 08:53:56 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 14:53:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <A0E9405E2CBB482FA58F890F5DC2E670@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <3d0ba402-0b24-2ab6-7cbe-3737aeb17d5b@btinternet.com>,
	<1MF3DM-1iuyCo08XQ-00FQuL@mail.gmx.com><VI1P192MB0271344056028BB7CF127A2EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<9FE2DC9410514CF5A5F52C81139D0CC2@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<VI1P192MB02712B00D30CDAC80196755EA73C0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<A0E9405E2CBB482FA58F890F5DC2E670@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <5e134a04.1c69fb81.d41bc.46b1@mx.google.com>

While not particularly about dimmers, the electrician we use for the estate of three blocks of flats here has advised that with the particular time-delay switches that are fitted, we should not utilise LED or low-energy bulbs, but stick to tungsten filament or halogen.
He will be fitting LED luminaires incorporating emergency battery back up lighting for the communal hallways.
Best
HNY
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: David Newbitt via Tech1
Sent: 06 January 2020 14:45
To: Nick Ware; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lights

Maybe Chris is on a Caribbean Cruise so I?ll dare venture a little info.
?
Broadly, trailing edge dimmers work for LED?s, leading edge don?t. Trailing edge dimmers will however usually work with incandescent lamps.
?
Trailing edge dimmers did not just come about for LED?s and originally they had their max and min loading wattages expressed in terms of the wattage loading imposed by incandescent lamps, often 40-250 or 60-400. Where load capability was expressed in this form it was necessary to divide by 10 to give a total LED lamp capability of 4-25 or 6 ? 40 total respectively. The number of LED?s of a given wattage could therefore be calculated by simple division.
?

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/7910948e/attachment.html>

From mibridge at mac.com  Mon Jan  6 09:19:21 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 15:19:21 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <D05C2D25-D7A1-4D22-A6A9-846E77D916C6@mac.com>
References: <D05C2D25-D7A1-4D22-A6A9-846E77D916C6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4B49E980-A2F1-42B1-A9EA-0D833ECE682A@mac.com>

That should have read no corpse to be found!

Mike G

> On 6 Jan 2020, at 11:32, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I thought you were going to say that the tree grew so fast it stretched the cable! Rats or squirrels bit through the mains cable that fed our greenhouse, but there was. I corpse you be found. 
> 
> Mike G
> 
>>> On 6 Jan 2020, at 10:34, Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?Eucalyptus tree???..maybe you?ve got a rogue koala bear!!
>> Barry.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 6 Jan 2020, at 07:07, phider via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Vis a vis nibbling cables.
>>> We were given a birdbox with a built in camera which I rigged on a very large eucalyptus tree. The very long cable reached back to our tv in the lounge and produced an excellent picture.
>>>  Many small birds recced the box but the 'for sale' board remained in place. No takers in the second year but the camera continued to produce an  excellent picture. I would watch small birds poke their beaks in but that was as far as it would go. 
>>> Then the picture disappeared and I discovered that the bright green cable had been cut at six foot intervals by a set of very small knashers. If the nibbler attempts to bite through my garden power socket cable he may, with luck, get a terminal belt.
>>> Happy New Year to all Techovians
>>> Peter Hider
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from Samsung Mobile on O2
>>> 
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: "dave.mdv via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> Date: 05/01/2020 18:37 (GMT+00:00)
>>> To: Phil <phil at philwthomas.plus.com>, Pete <pete.m.thomas456 at gmail.com>, Dave <daidor24 at wendoveremail.co.uk>, Dave <davelebreton at btinternet.com>, Dave <d.cjennings at btinternet.com>, tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Subject: [Tech1] Lights
>>> 
>>> On the last night for displaying my Christmas lights outside I was 
>>> wondering why only half of them came on. I went outside and discovered 
>>> that some anti-social creature had chewed through the low-voltage 
>>> bell-wire in two places! I've a good mind to repair it and leave it with 
>>> mains on it! (having de-rigged my LEDs of course!). Cheers, Dave
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/2ec6299a/attachment.html>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Jan  6 09:35:48 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 15:35:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <4B49E980-A2F1-42B1-A9EA-0D833ECE682A@mac.com>
References: <D05C2D25-D7A1-4D22-A6A9-846E77D916C6@mac.com>
	<4B49E980-A2F1-42B1-A9EA-0D833ECE682A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5e1353d4.1c69fb81.3393.36ff@mx.google.com>

Pity,
I fight wars against colonies of squirrels here, as they get into the lofts of the blocks of flats, and chew the mains lighting cables, which could cause a fire risk.
We use a very good pest exterminator who catches them in traps baited with peanuts, but I don?t know what he does with them afterwards! The little blighters chew the fascia boards to enlarge the gaps under the scroll roof tiles. I had three in my loft, making themselves very cosy in the insulation.
I probably wouldn?t mind if they were reds.

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Mike Giles via Tech1
Sent: 06 January 2020 15:19
To: Mike Giles
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lights

That should have read no corpse to be found!

Mike G


On 6 Jan 2020, at 11:32, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
?
I thought you were going to say that the tree grew so fast it stretched the cable! Rats or squirrels bit through the mains cable that fed our greenhouse, but there was. I corpse you be found.?

Mike G


On 6 Jan 2020, at 10:34, Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
?Eucalyptus tree???..maybe you?ve got a rogue koala bear!!
Barry.


On 6 Jan 2020, at 07:07, phider via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


Vis a vis nibbling cables.
We were given a birdbox with a built in camera which I rigged on a very large eucalyptus tree. The very long cable reached back to our tv in the lounge and produced an excellent picture.
?Many small birds recced the box but the 'for sale' board remained in place. No takers in the second year but the camera continued to produce an? excellent picture. I would watch small birds poke their beaks in but that was as far as it would go.?
Then the picture disappeared and I discovered that the bright green cable had been cut at six foot intervals by a set of very small knashers. If the nibbler attempts to bite through my garden power socket cable he may, with luck, get a terminal belt.
Happy New Year to all Techovians
Peter Hider




Sent from Samsung Mobile on O2

-------- Original message --------
From: "dave.mdv via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Date: 05/01/2020 18:37 (GMT+00:00) 
To: Phil <phil at philwthomas.plus.com>, Pete <pete.m.thomas456 at gmail.com>, Dave <daidor24 at wendoveremail.co.uk>, Dave <davelebreton at btinternet.com>, Dave <d.cjennings at btinternet.com>, tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: [Tech1] Lights 

On the last night for displaying my Christmas lights outside I was 
wondering why only half of them came on. I went outside and discovered 
that some anti-social creature had chewed through the low-voltage 
bell-wire in two places! I've a good mind to repair it and leave it with 
mains on it! (having de-rigged my LEDs of course!). Cheers, Dave


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/38d69cd5/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Jan  6 10:01:59 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 16:01:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <5e1353d4.1c69fb81.3393.36ff@mx.google.com>
References: <D05C2D25-D7A1-4D22-A6A9-846E77D916C6@mac.com>
	<4B49E980-A2F1-42B1-A9EA-0D833ECE682A@mac.com>
	<5e1353d4.1c69fb81.3393.36ff@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <7778d571-9036-a221-c0cb-c75e24df2b87@ntlworld.com>

I expect he eats them, as they taste good. We should also eat signal 
crayfish and rabbits.

B



On 06/01/2020 15:35, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Pity,
>
> I fight wars against colonies of squirrels here, as they get into the 
> lofts of the blocks of flats, and chew the mains lighting cables, 
> which could cause a fire risk.
>
> We use a very good pest exterminator who catches them in traps baited 
> with peanuts, but I don?t know what he does with them afterwards! The 
> little blighters chew the fascia boards to enlarge the gaps under the 
> scroll roof tiles. I had three in my loft, making themselves very cosy 
> in the insulation.
>
> I probably wouldn?t mind if they were reds.
>
> Pat
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *Mike Giles via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *06 January 2020 15:19
> *To: *Mike Giles <mailto:mibridge at mac.com>
> *Cc: *Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Lights
>
> That should have read no corpse to be found!
>
> Mike G
>
>
>
>     On 6 Jan 2020, at 11:32, Mike Giles via Tech1
>     <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>     ?
>
>     I thought you were going to say that the tree grew so fast it
>     stretched the cable! Rats or squirrels bit through the mains cable
>     that fed our greenhouse, but there was. I corpse you be found.
>
>     Mike G
>
>
>
>         On 6 Jan 2020, at 10:34, Barry Bonner via Tech1
>         <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>         ?Eucalyptus tree???..maybe you?ve got a rogue koala bear!!
>
>         /Barry./
>
>         On 6 Jan 2020, at 07:07, phider via Tech1
>         <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>
>
>             Vis a vis nibbling cables.
>
>             We were given a birdbox with a built in camera which I
>             rigged on a very large eucalyptus tree. The very long
>             cable reached back to our tv in the lounge and produced an
>             excellent picture.
>
>             ?Many small birds recced the box but the 'for sale' board
>             remained in place. No takers in the second year but the
>             camera continued to produce an? excellent picture. I would
>             watch small birds poke their beaks in but that was as far
>             as it would go.
>
>             Then the picture disappeared and I discovered that the
>             bright green cable had been cut at six foot intervals by a
>             set of very small knashers. If the nibbler attempts to
>             bite through my garden power socket cable he may, with
>             luck, get a terminal belt.
>
>             Happy New Year to all Techovians
>
>             Peter Hider
>
>             Sent from Samsung Mobile on O2
>
>             -------- Original message --------
>
>             From: "dave.mdv via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>             <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>>
>
>             Date: 05/01/2020 18:37 (GMT+00:00)
>
>             To: Phil <phil at philwthomas.plus.com
>             <mailto:phil at philwthomas.plus.com>>, Pete
>             <pete.m.thomas456 at gmail.com
>             <mailto:pete.m.thomas456 at gmail.com>>, Dave
>             <daidor24 at wendoveremail.co.uk
>             <mailto:daidor24 at wendoveremail.co.uk>>, Dave
>             <davelebreton at btinternet.com
>             <mailto:davelebreton at btinternet.com>>, Dave
>             <d.cjennings at btinternet.com
>             <mailto:d.cjennings at btinternet.com>>, tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>             <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>
>             Subject: [Tech1] Lights
>
>             On the last night for displaying my Christmas lights
>             outside I was
>             wondering why only half of them came on. I went outside
>             and discovered
>             that some anti-social creature had chewed through the
>             low-voltage
>             bell-wire in two places! I've a good mind to repair it and
>             leave it with
>             mains on it! (having de-rigged my LEDs of course!).
>             Cheers, Dave
>
>
>             -- 
>             Tech1 mailing list
>             Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>             http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>             -- 
>             Tech1 mailing list
>             Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>             http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
>         -- 
>         Tech1 mailing list
>         Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>         http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/705f374a/attachment.html>

From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Jan  6 10:19:47 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 16:19:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Lights
In-Reply-To: <5e1353d4.1c69fb81.3393.36ff@mx.google.com>
References: <D05C2D25-D7A1-4D22-A6A9-846E77D916C6@mac.com>
	<4B49E980-A2F1-42B1-A9EA-0D833ECE682A@mac.com>
	<5e1353d4.1c69fb81.3393.36ff@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <AC6CB45A-8CF8-4656-BEE3-7296469D8F57@me.com>

In my last house we used t have quite a problem with squirrels in the loft.  The tiles were sine wave shaped and the bottom tile was supposed to have closed off bottom ends, but over the years, broken bottom tiles got replaced with the ordinary variant, leaving handy gaps for squirrels to squeeze through.Once inside the loft they would occasionally gnaw on cables, but mostly gnawed on the rafters and roof timbers.I tried several ways to block up the gaps and the best solution was scrunched up chicken wire, which the squirrels couldn't get through, but it allowed unimpeded ventilation.

I ended up buying a live trap from a farmer's supply dealer and baited it with either peanut butter or mixed grain as used for feeding birds. When we caught one, it was drowned in the water butt. I modified the trap with a microswitch which lit a battery powered lamp bulb if the trap got triggered so that I wouldn't need to keep checking in the loft.

In our present house, there is an occasional problem with rats in the garden, which are attracted by debris from our neighbour's bird feeding station. The live trap has bagged several rats which also were introduced to the water butt.  I prefer live traps to spring rat traps as our neighbour the other side used a rat trap which caught and broke the legs of a toad.  Our live trap has also caught a hedgehog and the occasional bird, which of course were released unharmed.  I understand that if somebody traps a grey squirrel, it's illegal to release it into the wild.

Rats and squirrels both like to run along the perimeters of spaces, or through tunnels, so if you bear that in mind when siting a trap, you'll improve the chances of trapping them.

My father in law in Germany has a mill house in a remote part of the countryside, there is a huge mouse problem there, even though the house is fitted with special steel doors to prevent them getting in to the living quarters, but they still get into other parts of the building. He makes see-saw traps over a bucket half full of water. A curious mouse is enticed up a ramp and along a hinged plank of wood with peanut butter smeared on the end.  As the mouse nears the peanut butter, it tips into the water.  There is a magnet holding the plank down and a wood screw can be adjusted to raise the metal part of the plank away from the magnet so that there is enough holding force to make it feel secure, but not enough pull to stop it tipping when the mouse reaches the other end. After the mouse falls in, the see saw is weighted in such a way that the trap resets itself and the magnet holds it in position again. I've seen one of those traps catch more than a dozen mice in one night and he's known them catch twice as many.

Alan Taylor



On 6 Jan 2020, at 6 Jan . 15:35, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Pity,
> I fight wars against colonies of squirrels here, as they get into the lofts of the blocks of flats, and chew the mains lighting cables, which could cause a fire risk.
> We use a very good pest exterminator who catches them in traps baited with peanuts, but I don?t know what he does with them afterwards! The little blighters chew the fascia boards to enlarge the gaps under the scroll roof tiles. I had three in my loft, making themselves very cosy in the insulation.
> I probably wouldn?t mind if they were reds.
>  
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Mike Giles via Tech1
> Sent: 06 January 2020 15:19
> To: Mike Giles
> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lights
>  
> That should have read no corpse to be found!
>  
> Mike G
> 
> 
> On 6 Jan 2020, at 11:32, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I thought you were going to say that the tree grew so fast it stretched the cable! Rats or squirrels bit through the mains cable that fed our greenhouse, but there was. I corpse you be found. 
>  
> Mike G
> 
> 
> On 6 Jan 2020, at 10:34, Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Eucalyptus tree???..maybe you?ve got a rogue koala bear!!
> Barry.
>  
> 
>  
> On 6 Jan 2020, at 07:07, phider via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> Vis a vis nibbling cables.
> We were given a birdbox with a built in camera which I rigged on a very large eucalyptus tree. The very long cable reached back to our tv in the lounge and produced an excellent picture.
>  Many small birds recced the box but the 'for sale' board remained in place. No takers in the second year but the camera continued to produce an  excellent picture. I would watch small birds poke their beaks in but that was as far as it would go. 
> Then the picture disappeared and I discovered that the bright green cable had been cut at six foot intervals by a set of very small knashers. If the nibbler attempts to bite through my garden power socket cable he may, with luck, get a terminal belt.
> Happy New Year to all Techovians
> Peter Hider
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Sent from Samsung Mobile on O2
>  
> -------- Original message --------
> From: "dave.mdv via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: 05/01/2020 18:37 (GMT+00:00)
> To: Phil <phil at philwthomas.plus.com>, Pete <pete.m.thomas456 at gmail.com>, Dave <daidor24 at wendoveremail.co.uk>, Dave <davelebreton at btinternet.com>, Dave <d.cjennings at btinternet.com>, tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: [Tech1] Lights
>  
> On the last night for displaying my Christmas lights outside I was 
> wondering why only half of them came on. I went outside and discovered 
> that some anti-social creature had chewed through the low-voltage 
> bell-wire in two places! I've a good mind to repair it and leave it with 
> mains on it! (having de-rigged my LEDs of course!). Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/b97d3248/attachment.html>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Jan  6 11:12:29 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 17:12:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Squirrels & other edibles
In-Reply-To: <7778d571-9036-a221-c0cb-c75e24df2b87@ntlworld.com>
References: <D05C2D25-D7A1-4D22-A6A9-846E77D916C6@mac.com>
	<4B49E980-A2F1-42B1-A9EA-0D833ECE682A@mac.com>
	<5e1353d4.1c69fb81.3393.36ff@mx.google.com>
	<7778d571-9036-a221-c0cb-c75e24df2b87@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <5e136a7d.1c69fb81.e3b44.6bf8@mx.google.com>

Do you know from personal experience, Bernie? Squirrel Souffle?
Squirrel Cassoulet, avec Cacahuetes perhaps!
I remember a programme about a couple who lived off roadkill.
Sounds ghastly, except they might dine on deer (venison), pheasant,
maybe rabbit. All acceptable to human consumption, but badger, hedgehog, I?m not so sure. Gypsies cover a hedgehog with clay and roast in a bonfire, the clay peels off the prickles, apparently.
(Food with its own toothpick!!)
I?ve never been to China, but love Chinese grub ? but I suspect that what we have in the UK is tweaked for English stomachs. Snake? I don?t think so. (see Michael Palin?s travels)
But we call the French ?froggies? ?cos they eat frogs legs? They call us ?rosbifs? as we eat chunks of steak and joints of beef.
I find it interesting that oysters were considered cheap food for the poor of London, yet now they cost a small fortune in posh restaurants.
One job I was on, a Thames TV story about the National Trust had us finishing at Mullion in Cornwall. To make the pictures interesting, it had been arranged to film the lobster fishermen bringing in their catch. As I was going on to stay with my then girlfriend and her parents, I asked to buy a lobster from the fishermen.
Duly completed, I took it to the hotel chef who dispatched it for me and put it in the freezer, When asked how much I had paid, he was astonished ? much less than he could get them from the market ? I told him to buy direct from the quayside!
One other assistant cameraman also bought a lobster, and stashing it in a bucket in the guard?s van (Intercity 125?s had those, then), I heard later that the guard came round and inquired : ? If one of you gentlemen had a lobster ? if so, it?s escaped and is crawling around my van....!?)

Oh! What fun!!
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 06 January 2020 16:02
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Cc: Bernard Newnham
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lights

I expect he eats them, as they taste good. We should also eat signal crayfish and rabbits.

B


On 06/01/2020 15:35, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
Pity,
I fight wars against colonies of squirrels here, as they get into the lofts of the blocks of flats, and chew the mains lighting cables, which could cause a fire risk.
We use a very good pest exterminator who catches them in traps baited with peanuts, but I don?t know what he does with them afterwards! The little blighters chew the fascia boards to enlarge the gaps under the scroll roof tiles. I had three in my loft, making themselves very cosy in the insulation.
I probably wouldn?t mind if they were reds.
?
Pat
?
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/43445cc6/attachment.html>

From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Jan  6 12:23:43 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 18:23:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Squirrels & other edibles
In-Reply-To: <5e136a7d.1c69fb81.e3b44.6bf8@mx.google.com>
References: <D05C2D25-D7A1-4D22-A6A9-846E77D916C6@mac.com>
	<4B49E980-A2F1-42B1-A9EA-0D833ECE682A@mac.com>
	<5e1353d4.1c69fb81.3393.36ff@mx.google.com>
	<7778d571-9036-a221-c0cb-c75e24df2b87@ntlworld.com>
	<5e136a7d.1c69fb81.e3b44.6bf8@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <B69BD0D2-000E-499F-AFE7-EF5E96A47562@me.com>

I can vouch for how delicious crayfish are and I know an old guy who says that his mother used to trap and cook squirrels during the war and he looked forward to them as a treat.

I live fairly close to the Oxford canal and there are loads of crayfish in there.  I made a simple net and used pieces of waste raw chicken as bait and were catching several crayfish per minute.  It doesn't take long to catch enough to boil in a pot on a camping gas stove and they are delicious. Our portable gas cooker can't cook them as fast as we can catch them, even though they only need boiling for a few minutes.  You don't get much meat on each one, but on the other hand, they are free, plentiful and are an invasive species which needs to be eliminated. You need to  be careful how you handle them because they can be very aggressive and have powerful, sharp pincers.

If you take them home, they are good in soups like bouillabaisse or chowder, fish pie, risotto, Chinese stir fry, variants of prawn cocktail or paella. Remove the digestive tract, as you do with very large prawns.  I would say that they are sweeter than prawns and each one provides about as much meat as a langoustine. The shells are a lot tougher than prawn shells and require more effort to open them up. When boiled, they turn an amazing cherry red and look fabulous.

George Monboit published an excellent explanation of how to catch them in The Guardian a few years ago. I have since discovered that you are supposed to apply for a permit before fishing for them, but I never have and have never been challenged.  I believe that the permit is free and that essentially it's to make sure that you know the difference between the native ones ( which should not be caught ) and the invasive ones which are a nuisance.

There are maps available on-line showing where crayfish are known to be present in large numbers, but when I looked, there was no mention of there being any around here, but I tried anyway because I knew that they were plentiful further south along the canal and guessed that they must have spread this far.

With regard to Pat's comments about restaurants in China, I worked in Shanghai for a couple of weeks many years ago and we spent the entire time eating street food from markets, or in restaurants catering for locals rather than places aimed at tourists.  In many of the restaurants, as you walk through the door, there are cages with various animals and of course that is the larder.  You soon learn never to own up to be the most important person in your group because they have a habit of cutting organs from things like live snakes and mashing them up in alcohol and presenting them to the most honoured guest as a special delicacy while they cook the rest of it. Such restaurants were rarely visited by westerners and there was often a language problem too, but we nearly always were sat in the window and passers by occasionally would pause and watch us out of curiosity for a few moments, which was quite disconcerting when it first happened, but you soon get used to it. 

There is a speciality found everywhere in Shanghai, the Shanghai Hairy Crab, which they fish from the Yangtze river.  It has fine hairs on it's claws and is quite a bit smaller than a Cromer crab, but utterly delicious.  Before ordering one, I enquired if it came with tools for opening and eating it and was assured that it did.  The crabs were served with a selection of chopsticks, ranging from some almost the size of rolling pins down to very fine ones. The rolling pins were used like nutcrackers, holding both ends and squeezing the crab or claws to crack them open, while the fine chopsticks are used to pick out the meat from the legs.

Alan Taylor





On 6 Jan 2020, at 6 Jan . 17:12, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Do you know from personal experience, Bernie? Squirrel Souffle?
> Squirrel Cassoulet, avec Cacahuetes perhaps!
> I remember a programme about a couple who lived off roadkill.
> Sounds ghastly, except they might dine on deer (venison), pheasant,
> maybe rabbit. All acceptable to human consumption, but badger, hedgehog, I?m not so sure. Gypsies cover a hedgehog with clay and roast in a bonfire, the clay peels off the prickles, apparently.
> (Food with its own toothpick!!)
> I?ve never been to China, but love Chinese grub ? but I suspect that what we have in the UK is tweaked for English stomachs. Snake? I don?t think so. (see Michael Palin?s travels)
> But we call the French ?froggies? ?cos they eat frogs legs? They call us ?rosbifs? as we eat chunks of steak and joints of beef.
> I find it interesting that oysters were considered cheap food for the poor of London, yet now they cost a small fortune in posh restaurants.
> One job I was on, a Thames TV story about the National Trust had us finishing at Mullion in Cornwall. To make the pictures interesting, it had been arranged to film the lobster fishermen bringing in their catch. As I was going on to stay with my then girlfriend and her parents, I asked to buy a lobster from the fishermen.
> Duly completed, I took it to the hotel chef who dispatched it for me and put it in the freezer, When asked how much I had paid, he was astonished ? much less than he could get them from the market ? I told him to buy direct from the quayside!
> One other assistant cameraman also bought a lobster, and stashing it in a bucket in the guard?s van (Intercity 125?s had those, then), I heard later that the guard came round and inquired : ? If one of you gentlemen had a lobster ? if so, it?s escaped and is crawling around my van....!?)
>  
> Oh! What fun!!
> Pat
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
> Sent: 06 January 2020 16:02
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Cc: Bernard Newnham
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Lights
>  
> I expect he eats them, as they taste good. We should also eat signal crayfish and rabbits.
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
> On 06/01/2020 15:35, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
> Pity,
> I fight wars against colonies of squirrels here, as they get into the lofts of the blocks of flats, and chew the mains lighting cables, which could cause a fire risk.
> We use a very good pest exterminator who catches them in traps baited with peanuts, but I don?t know what he does with them afterwards! The little blighters chew the fascia boards to enlarge the gaps under the scroll roof tiles. I had three in my loft, making themselves very cosy in the insulation.
> I probably wouldn?t mind if they were reds.
>  
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200106/a1dce048/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Tue Jan  7 08:02:45 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2020 14:02:45 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Christmas Lights Storage
In-Reply-To: <FAE75622-568C-4FEE-81F7-5B3BCC7D9AEE@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <FAE75622-568C-4FEE-81F7-5B3BCC7D9AEE@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <582ea17a00dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <FAE75622-568C-4FEE-81F7-5B3BCC7D9AEE at vincent68.plus.com>,
   John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> > Putting away Christmas lights for next year I've tried to do a version of Roadie Wrap that I learnt about last year. Didn't work!
> > 
> > Any storage suggestions gratefully received.
> > 
> > Happy New Year to all
> > 
> > John V

I use re-usable cable ties. And secure in manageable coils. Four for 200
lights. Bag each string up individually, so they don't get tangled with
the others. The cable ties being re-useable double up as fixing for a
string to the outside fence.

-- 
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Jan  7 08:55:16 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 14:55:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wine corkscrews
In-Reply-To: <133E75D6-FB3C-43A7-A5F2-C1F3B64BE68B@mac.com>
References: <6a237c55-f05c-cb48-9738-3c3360644d49@btinternet.com>
	<133E75D6-FB3C-43A7-A5F2-C1F3B64BE68B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5e149bd3.1c69fb81.43c6.8ee1@mx.google.com>

One of the best corkscrews is Screwpull (pic attached).
Those that have a central solid shaft are far more likely to break up the cork.
Screwpull gently drives into the cork, not distorting it, and continued turning of the handle draws the cork fully out of the bottle.
I?ve never understood why wine waiters in restaurants use the folding type, which when I?ve tried always slips off the bottle?s neck.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Mike Giles via Tech1
Sent: 06 January 2020 00:43
To: dave.mdv
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; Phil; Dave; Pete; Dave
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wine corkscrews

For clarety, Dave, (misspelling intended) do you mean two grooves? One groove would seem to produce a cardioid. 

I fancy I recall somebody demonstrating how to remove corks using sash cord - probably Stephen Fry on QI. 

MIke G

> On 5 Jan 2020, at 23:13, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I have never bought a wine bottle corkscrew as such but seem to have inherited several from the de-rigs at the 'Horse of the Year' show in Olympia where the catering staff sem to be more interested in getting home than anything! However, I had a mini-disaster before Christmas when the 'real' cork split in half in my favourite bottle of red! I tried several of the corkscrews but they weren't interested in biting into what was left of the cork. Only one, branded 'Bacchus' did the job and the situation was solved. The difference was that the Bacchus wire screw was in the shape of a figure 8, i.e. it had a groove down the length of the spiral, all the others were just plain circular in cross-section. Isn't science wonderful? Cheers, hic, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200107/02ae6720/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 7F4527E889A7471482BBD326D82016E4.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 19297 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200107/02ae6720/attachment.jpg>

From waresound at msn.com  Tue Jan  7 09:22:01 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 15:22:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wine corkscrews
In-Reply-To: <5e149bd3.1c69fb81.43c6.8ee1@mx.google.com>
References: <6a237c55-f05c-cb48-9738-3c3360644d49@btinternet.com>
	<133E75D6-FB3C-43A7-A5F2-C1F3B64BE68B@mac.com>,
	<5e149bd3.1c69fb81.43c6.8ee1@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02715BAAFF2DC514F8A01358A73F0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

It?s not called a Waiter?s Friend for no good reason. I swear by mine, and it never slips off if you do it right. Plus, it can neatly cut the lead foil top so that you?re not trying to pull the cork through it - and it can lift the caps off beer bottles.
Bottoms up!
Nick.

Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 7 Jan 2020, at 14:55, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]?
I?ve never understood why wine waiters in restaurants use the folding type, which when I?ve tried always slips off the bottle?s neck.
Pat

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200107/7bb00838/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 7F4527E889A7471482BBD326D82016E4.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 19297 bytes
Desc: 7F4527E889A7471482BBD326D82016E4.jpg
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200107/7bb00838/attachment.jpg>

From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Tue Jan  7 09:24:07 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 15:24:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd:  Wine corkscrews
References: <BAC2789A-0305-4879-AE3C-12092030EF17@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <030BFCB4-5A97-4B06-A289-7216E1A9C934@vincent68.plus.com>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: John Vincent <crew13 at vincent68.plus.com>
> Date: 7 January 2020 15:22:06 GMT
> To: patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wine corkscrews
> 
> Screw tops work for me!
> 
> John V
> 
> 
> On 7 Jan 2020, at 14:55, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
> 
>> One of the best corkscrews is Screwpull (pic attached).
>> Those that have a central solid shaft are far more likely to break up the cork.
>> Screwpull gently drives into the cork, not distorting it, and continued turning of the handle draws the cork fully out of the bottle.
>> I?ve never understood why wine waiters in restaurants use the folding type, which when I?ve tried always slips off the bottle?s neck.
>> Pat<7F4527E889A7471482BBD326D82016E4.jpg>
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: Mike Giles via Tech1
>> Sent: 06 January 2020 00:43
>> To: dave.mdv
>> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk; Phil; Dave; Pete; Dave
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wine corkscrews
>>  
>> For clarety, Dave, (misspelling intended) do you mean two grooves? One groove would seem to produce a cardioid.
>>  
>> I fancy I recall somebody demonstrating how to remove corks using sash cord - probably Stephen Fry on QI.
>>  
>> MIke G
>>  
>> > On 5 Jan 2020, at 23:13, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> > ?I have never bought a wine bottle corkscrew as such but seem to have inherited several from the de-rigs at the 'Horse of the Year' show in Olympia where the catering staff sem to be more interested in getting home than anything! However, I had a mini-disaster before Christmas when the 'real' cork split in half in my favourite bottle of red! I tried several of the corkscrews but they weren't interested in biting into what was left of the cork. Only one, branded 'Bacchus' did the job and the situation was solved. The difference was that the Bacchus wire screw was in the shape of a figure 8, i.e. it had a groove down the length of the spiral, all the others were just plain circular in cross-section. Isn't science wonderful? Cheers, hic, Dave
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Tech1 mailing list
>> > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>  
>>  
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>  
>> <7F4527E889A7471482BBD326D82016E4.jpg>-- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200107/79e3cd8a/attachment.html>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Jan  7 10:37:43 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 16:37:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Wine corkscrews
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB02715BAAFF2DC514F8A01358A73F0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <6a237c55-f05c-cb48-9738-3c3360644d49@btinternet.com>
	<133E75D6-FB3C-43A7-A5F2-C1F3B64BE68B@mac.com>,
	<5e149bd3.1c69fb81.43c6.8ee1@mx.google.com>
	<VI1P192MB02715BAAFF2DC514F8A01358A73F0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <5e14b3d5.1c69fb81.7cf71.0ed4@mx.google.com>

Well, I guess the folding type doesn?t make holes in the waiter?s pocket.
Wonder if the screw cap was invented for Australians who when venturing into the outback for a picnic, discovered that some drongo had forgotten the corkscrew. So what do they hang around their hats, now? Screwcaps?
A lady friend was trying to open a bottle with a corkscrew, and complaining that the cork was really tough, until I pointed out that it had a screw top! Doh!
Here?s a story:
007 ?The Spy Who Loved Me?
Scene: The final chapter when 007 and Triple X have escaped from the villain?s doomed underwater hideaway in an escape capsule. Once surfaced, Bond rummages in a locker and finds a bottle of Dom Perignon champagne. They do not make a theatrical (ginger ale) version, so it was the real stuff.
Having opened it, Roger blew the first take ? ?Props: new bottle please!? Then, Roger proceeded to screw up the next ten takes ? belching, farting, blowing his dialogue etc. Always after the bottle was opened. Each time a fresh bottle.
Finally after a perfect take, Roger says to Lewis Gilbert, the director: ?Have I opened enough for everyone to have a sip?? Lewis grinned and said mildly: ?Roger, you are naughty!?
Moore knew that with perhaps only two bottles broached, only the actors and directing staff would benefit from finishing up the champagne, and such was his nature that he thought all the crew should have a taste. Lovely guy!

Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: 07 January 2020 15:22
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Wine corkscrews

It?s not called a Waiter?s Friend for no good reason. I swear by mine, and it never slips off if you do it right. Plus, it can neatly cut the lead foil top so that you?re not trying to pull the cork through it - and it can lift the caps off beer bottles. 
Bottoms up!
Nick.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200107/9510dfbd/attachment.html>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Jan  7 11:02:23 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 17:02:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Christmas Lights Storage
In-Reply-To: <1AC3FA05-D7C8-4961-921E-CA780B928E1B@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <1AC3FA05-D7C8-4961-921E-CA780B928E1B@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <5e14b99e.1c69fb81.18933.1626@mx.google.com>

I came across this cable tidy which might work for winding up Christmas lights. The idea of a cardboard tube is a much cheaper alternative!


Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: John Vincent via Tech1
Sent: 06 January 2020 12:39
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Christmas Lights Storage

Putting away Christmas lights for next year I've tried to do a version of Roadie Wrap that I learnt about last year. Didn't work!

Any storage suggestions gratefully received.

Happy New Year to all

John V
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200107/dd83db5b/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 8946E8623F5E4D5A9BE19F81B890A343.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 13623 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200107/dd83db5b/attachment.jpg>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Jan  7 11:06:31 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 17:06:31 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW:  Christmas Lights Storage
In-Reply-To: <5e14b99e.1c69fb81.18933.1626@mx.google.com>
References: <1AC3FA05-D7C8-4961-921E-CA780B928E1B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<5e14b99e.1c69fb81.18933.1626@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5e14ba96.1c69fb81.f5e68.3832@mx.google.com>




From: patheigham
Sent: 07 January 2020 17:02
To: John Vincent; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: RE: [Tech1] Christmas Lights Storage

I came across this cable tidy which might work for winding up Christmas lights. The idea of a cardboard tube is a much cheaper alternative!


Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: John Vincent via Tech1
Sent: 06 January 2020 12:39
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Christmas Lights Storage

Putting away Christmas lights for next year I've tried to do a version of Roadie Wrap that I learnt about last year. Didn't work!

Any storage suggestions gratefully received.

Happy New Year to all

John V
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200107/a75485e3/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: 88623BCDB7EA495AB3878B1BD9EE9D68.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 13660 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200107/a75485e3/attachment.jpg>

From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Tue Jan  7 11:26:03 2020
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 17:26:03 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Wine corkscrews
In-Reply-To: <030BFCB4-5A97-4B06-A289-7216E1A9C934@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <BAC2789A-0305-4879-AE3C-12092030EF17@vincent68.plus.com>
	<030BFCB4-5A97-4B06-A289-7216E1A9C934@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <0c03c8f5-feec-a4a4-7ccf-c428a6aae8b8@gmail.com>

Hi all

On 07/01/2020 15:24, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
> Screw tops work for me!

When I was a Member of the Institute of Quality Assurance, one meeting 
was held at the premises of Laithwaites (aka The Sunday Times Wine Club 
amongst others).? Laithwaites, as you may know, imports good wine from 
around the world from Vineyards that do not supply the major chains.? 
One of their very best reds is "The Black Stump" which we have to get 
cases in ready for Christmas etc.

Anyway, as part of the discussion after the presentation from Eddy, the 
manager, the inevitable question was asked: "What is the best closure 
for wine?"

The answer - Screw Tops

Actually, the best closure for wine is the crown tops as used in Beer 
bottles - and? these crown closures are used in "methode champenoise" 
for the initial fermentation in the bottle.Screw tops come a close second.

Many advantages for screw tops - not least, since the wine can not be 
"corked",? there is no reason for the poncing about "tasting" the wine!? 
Just pour it out!

-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502




From waresound at msn.com  Wed Jan  8 04:35:19 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 10:35:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Wine corkscrews
In-Reply-To: <0c03c8f5-feec-a4a4-7ccf-c428a6aae8b8@gmail.com>
References: <BAC2789A-0305-4879-AE3C-12092030EF17@vincent68.plus.com>
	<030BFCB4-5A97-4B06-A289-7216E1A9C934@vincent68.plus.com>,
	<0c03c8f5-feec-a4a4-7ccf-c428a6aae8b8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271BC319D5A1521452330C7A73E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

From a practical point of view a screw top may be best, but from an aesthetic point of view, to someone like me the sound of a cork popping is pure music.

I?m not sure they did the wine any good, but I used to like those CO2 Sparklets bulb bottle openers that pierced the cork and blew it out. Whatever happened to them I wonder?
Oh yes, of course - health and safety, I daresay. ?
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 7 Jan 2020, at 17:26, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi all
> 
>> On 07/01/2020 15:24, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
>> Screw tops work for me!
> 
> When I was a Member of the Institute of Quality Assurance, one meeting was held at the premises of Laithwaites (aka The Sunday Times Wine Club amongst others).  Laithwaites, as you may know, imports good wine from around the world from Vineyards that do not supply the major chains.  One of their very best reds is "The Black Stump" which we have to get cases in ready for Christmas etc.
> 
> Anyway, as part of the discussion after the presentation from Eddy, the manager, the inevitable question was asked: "What is the best closure for wine?"
> 
> The answer - Screw Tops
> 
> Actually, the best closure for wine is the crown tops as used in Beer bottles - and  these crown closures are used in "methode champenoise" for the initial fermentation in the bottle.Screw tops come a close second.
> 
> Many advantages for screw tops - not least, since the wine can not be "corked",  there is no reason for the poncing about "tasting" the wine!  Just pour it out!
> 
> -- 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Alec
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Wed Jan  8 05:01:12 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 11:01:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Wine corkscrews
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271BC319D5A1521452330C7A73E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <BAC2789A-0305-4879-AE3C-12092030EF17@vincent68.plus.com>
	<030BFCB4-5A97-4B06-A289-7216E1A9C934@vincent68.plus.com>
	<0c03c8f5-feec-a4a4-7ccf-c428a6aae8b8@gmail.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271BC319D5A1521452330C7A73E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <09f60b86-a895-37b7-827d-d5ec94bd90ff@chriswoolf.co.uk>

The disadvantage of a screw top is that the seal length is very short. 
If the elasticity of the sealing rim deteriorates there is only a 3mm 
distance to stop the air getting in. Short life wines are fine with it, 
but ones needing to be kept a long time are at a bit of a risk.

The disadvantage of cork is that it needs to be kept damp to work 
properly and so needs horizontal storage, but kept carefully it has 
proven extremely reliable for >>decade's use.

Where cork struggled a few years back was with the production of TCA 
that creates a "corky" taint. It is reckoned that the processing of the 
cork with chlorinated phenols was probably to blame, and nowadays the 
incidence of corked wine is much lower than it used to be, due to better 
care and more cautious chemical sterilisation. I haven't had a corked 
wine in years, whereas I used to get about 10%. So the introduction of 
plastic corks and screw caps (to improve the spoilage rate) probably 
wasn't really necessary.

I think the CO2 injection system went out because it was quite expensive 
to run. There were air pump versions that were cheaper. And yes, there 
was a slight risk of the bottle shattering.

Of course, if you are really keen, you buy a Coravin system that lets 
you sample any wine and replace the volume (through the cork) with an 
argon filler.

Chris Woolf

On 08/01/2020 10:35, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>  From a practical point of view a screw top may be best, but from an aesthetic point of view, to someone like me the sound of a cork popping is pure music.
>
> I?m not sure they did the wine any good, but I used to like those CO2 Sparklets bulb bottle openers that pierced the cork and blew it out. Whatever happened to them I wonder?
> Oh yes, of course - health and safety, I daresay. ?
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>> On 7 Jan 2020, at 17:26, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Hi all
>>
>>> On 07/01/2020 15:24, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Screw tops work for me!
>> When I was a Member of the Institute of Quality Assurance, one meeting was held at the premises of Laithwaites (aka The Sunday Times Wine Club amongst others).  Laithwaites, as you may know, imports good wine from around the world from Vineyards that do not supply the major chains.  One of their very best reds is "The Black Stump" which we have to get cases in ready for Christmas etc.
>>
>> Anyway, as part of the discussion after the presentation from Eddy, the manager, the inevitable question was asked: "What is the best closure for wine?"
>>
>> The answer - Screw Tops
>>
>> Actually, the best closure for wine is the crown tops as used in Beer bottles - and  these crown closures are used in "methode champenoise" for the initial fermentation in the bottle.Screw tops come a close second.
>>
>> Many advantages for screw tops - not least, since the wine can not be "corked",  there is no reason for the poncing about "tasting" the wine!  Just pour it out!
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> Alec
>>
>> Alec Bray
>>
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> mob:    07789 561 346
>> home:   0118 981 7502
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Wed Jan  8 05:07:33 2020
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 11:07:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Interesting to some
Message-ID: <B8B3DB35-DD57-488F-B48B-19A36D7AA724@btinternet.com>

This is an interesting selection of stuff including Valves and even a Zoetrope.
Good hunting to all and Happy New Year
Albert

https://bid.tennants.co.uk/m/view-auctions/catalog/id/806?items=200&page=1 <https://bid.tennants.co.uk/m/view-auctions/catalog/id/806?items=200&page=1> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200108/dd99d986/attachment.html>

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Wed Jan  8 05:49:29 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 11:49:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Interesting to some
In-Reply-To: <B8B3DB35-DD57-488F-B48B-19A36D7AA724@btinternet.com>
References: <B8B3DB35-DD57-488F-B48B-19A36D7AA724@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <a7005441-deba-148e-89b8-adbc02d4efa8@chriswoolf.co.uk>

As always, the worrying thing is when you recognise the sort of things 
that you actually used yourself;}

Chris Woolf


On 08/01/2020 11:07, Albert Barber via Tech1 wrote:
> This is an interesting selection of stuff including Valves and even a 
> Zoetrope.
> Good hunting to all and Happy New Year
> Albert
>
> https://bid.tennants.co.uk/m/view-auctions/catalog/id/806?items=200&page=1 
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200108/d9fbff50/attachment.html>

From peter.neill at icloud.com  Wed Jan  8 07:52:21 2020
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 13:52:21 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Wine corkscrews
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271BC319D5A1521452330C7A73E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <BAC2789A-0305-4879-AE3C-12092030EF17@vincent68.plus.com>
	<030BFCB4-5A97-4B06-A289-7216E1A9C934@vincent68.plus.com>
	<0c03c8f5-feec-a4a4-7ccf-c428a6aae8b8@gmail.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271BC319D5A1521452330C7A73E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <6DD49768-30EC-4CBE-BDF3-B53EB90189FD@icloud.com>

We quite like La Vielle Ferme wine. It?s produced quite close to our favourite holiday area in France and we have bought it both there and back home.
In France it is sold with a screw top, in the UK with a cork.






W


Peter Neill



> On 8 Jan 2020, at 10:35, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> From a practical point of view a screw top may be best, but from an aesthetic point of view, to someone like me the sound of a cork popping is pure music.
> 
> I?m not sure they did the wine any good, but I used to like those CO2 Sparklets bulb bottle openers that pierced the cork and blew it out. Whatever happened to them I wonder?
> Oh yes, of course - health and safety, I daresay. ?
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 7 Jan 2020, at 17:26, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Hi all
>> 
>>> On 07/01/2020 15:24, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Screw tops work for me!
>> 
>> When I was a Member of the Institute of Quality Assurance, one meeting was held at the premises of Laithwaites (aka The Sunday Times Wine Club amongst others).  Laithwaites, as you may know, imports good wine from around the world from Vineyards that do not supply the major chains.  One of their very best reds is "The Black Stump" which we have to get cases in ready for Christmas etc.
>> 
>> Anyway, as part of the discussion after the presentation from Eddy, the manager, the inevitable question was asked: "What is the best closure for wine?"
>> 
>> The answer - Screw Tops
>> 
>> Actually, the best closure for wine is the crown tops as used in Beer bottles - and  these crown closures are used in "methode champenoise" for the initial fermentation in the bottle.Screw tops come a close second.
>> 
>> Many advantages for screw tops - not least, since the wine can not be "corked",  there is no reason for the poncing about "tasting" the wine!  Just pour it out!
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Best Regards
>> 
>> Alec
>> 
>> Alec Bray
>> 
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> mob:    07789 561 346
>> home:   0118 981 7502
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200108/3f622f1d/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Vielle Ferme.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 18962 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200108/3f622f1d/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: la-vieille-ferme-ventoux-1443186.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 45540 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200108/3f622f1d/attachment-0001.jpg>

From waresound at msn.com  Wed Jan  8 08:50:51 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 14:50:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Wine corkscrews
In-Reply-To: <6DD49768-30EC-4CBE-BDF3-B53EB90189FD@icloud.com>
References: <6DD49768-30EC-4CBE-BDF3-B53EB90189FD@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271C52FAD6697869C74A8AEA73E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

This might be a good moment to tell you all about a good friend and IPS member who had a successful career designing and manufacturing pro-audio gear, and then left all that behind in 2004 to go and buy a vineyard in Portugal. (As you do!)
Chris Price and his wife Helga are now well established award-winning wine producers who will happily ship their wines to the likes of you and me.
Take a look at vinhoscortem.com and you?ll see what I mean.
I know of several folk who ordered all their Christmas wines from them. I?m sure he?ll supply with corks or screw tops to suit your personal preferences!

But for me there?s a snag! My Son-in-Law-to-be imports bespoke wines for supplying to posh restaurants and hotels, etc. We benefit quite well from his ?allowance? because he?s a beer drinker! I have, however, given him the vinhoscortem info, so maybe we?ll turn that to our advantage!

?Cheers? seems appropriate in this context,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 8 Jan 2020, at 13:53, Peter Neill via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
We quite like La Vielle Ferme wine. It?s produced quite close to our favourite holiday area in France and we have bought it both there and back home.
In France it is sold with a screw top, in the UK with a cork.






W[cid:EC807A0F-2923-441F-A108-1B988FB2E4C3 at home][cid:986DA5CF-094D-4190-AEC5-C792264E09AC at home]


Peter Neill



On 8 Jan 2020, at 10:35, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

From a practical point of view a screw top may be best, but from an aesthetic point of view, to someone like me the sound of a cork popping is pure music.

I?m not sure they did the wine any good, but I used to like those CO2 Sparklets bulb bottle openers that pierced the cork and blew it out. Whatever happened to them I wonder?
Oh yes, of course - health and safety, I daresay. ?
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 7 Jan 2020, at 17:26, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

?Hi all

On 07/01/2020 15:24, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
Screw tops work for me!

When I was a Member of the Institute of Quality Assurance, one meeting was held at the premises of Laithwaites (aka The Sunday Times Wine Club amongst others).  Laithwaites, as you may know, imports good wine from around the world from Vineyards that do not supply the major chains.  One of their very best reds is "The Black Stump" which we have to get cases in ready for Christmas etc.

Anyway, as part of the discussion after the presentation from Eddy, the manager, the inevitable question was asked: "What is the best closure for wine?"

The answer - Screw Tops

Actually, the best closure for wine is the crown tops as used in Beer bottles - and  these crown closures are used in "methode champenoise" for the initial fermentation in the bottle.Screw tops come a close second.

Many advantages for screw tops - not least, since the wine can not be "corked",  there is no reason for the poncing about "tasting" the wine!  Just pour it out!

--

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com<mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502



--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200108/fb4dee92/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Vielle Ferme.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 18962 bytes
Desc: Vielle Ferme.jpg
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200108/fb4dee92/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: la-vieille-ferme-ventoux-1443186.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 45540 bytes
Desc: la-vieille-ferme-ventoux-1443186.jpg
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200108/fb4dee92/attachment-0001.jpg>

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Wed Jan  8 08:59:16 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 14:59:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Wine corkscrews
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271C52FAD6697869C74A8AEA73E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <6DD49768-30EC-4CBE-BDF3-B53EB90189FD@icloud.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271C52FAD6697869C74A8AEA73E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <9b7da912-fc08-d609-4115-8d595cb8f01f@chriswoolf.co.uk>

I'll back that with first hand experience.

Chris Price's wine is excellent - some of it typical (good) Portuguese, 
some of it really interesting and unusual.

He even makes an "orange" wine - that's a white grape wine fermented 
with the skins for a significant time - a new fashion for a very old 
technique. He does it well too - my son is something of an expert in 
that field and is impressed by what Chris P has achieved.

Chris Woolf


On 08/01/2020 14:50, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> This might be a good moment to tell you all about a good friend and 
> IPS member who had a successful career designing and manufacturing 
> pro-audio gear, and then left all that behind in 2004 to go and buy a 
> vineyard in Portugal. (As you do!)
> Chris Price and his wife Helga are now well established award-winning 
> wine producers who will happily ship their wines to the likes of you 
> and me.
> Take a look at vinhoscortem.com and you?ll see what I mean.
> I know of several folk who ordered all their Christmas wines from 
> them. I?m sure he?ll supply with corks or screw tops to suit your 
> personal preferences!
>
> But for me there?s a snag! My Son-in-Law-to-be imports bespoke wines 
> for supplying to posh restaurants and hotels, etc. We benefit quite 
> well from his ?allowance? because he?s a beer drinker! I have, 
> however, given him the vinhoscortem info, so maybe we?ll turn that to 
> our advantage!
>
> ?Cheers? seems appropriate in this context,
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>> On 8 Jan 2020, at 13:53, Peter Neill via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> We quite like La Vielle Ferme wine. It?s produced quite close to our 
>> favourite holiday area in France and we have bought it both there and 
>> back home.
>> In France it is sold with a screw top, in the UK with a cork.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> W
>>
>>
>> Peter Neill
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 8 Jan 2020, at 10:35, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
>>> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From a practical point of view a screw top may be best, but from an 
>>> aesthetic point of view, to someone like me the sound of a cork 
>>> popping is pure music.
>>>
>>> I?m not sure they did the wine any good, but I used to like those 
>>> CO2 Sparklets bulb bottle openers that pierced the cork and blew it 
>>> out. Whatever happened to them I wonder?
>>> Oh yes, of course - health and safety, I daresay. ?
>>> Nick.
>>> Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>>
>>>> On 7 Jan 2020, at 17:26, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
>>>> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ?Hi all
>>>>
>>>>> On 07/01/2020 15:24, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> Screw tops work for me!
>>>>
>>>> When I was a Member of the Institute of Quality Assurance, one 
>>>> meeting was held at the premises of Laithwaites (aka The Sunday 
>>>> Times Wine Club amongst others). ?Laithwaites, as you may know, 
>>>> imports good wine from around the world from Vineyards that do not 
>>>> supply the major chains. ?One of their very best reds is "The Black 
>>>> Stump" which we have to get cases in ready for Christmas etc.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, as part of the discussion after the presentation from Eddy, 
>>>> the manager, the inevitable question was asked: "What is the best 
>>>> closure for wine?"
>>>>
>>>> The answer - Screw Tops
>>>>
>>>> Actually, the best closure for wine is the crown tops as used in 
>>>> Beer bottles - and ?these crown closures are used in "methode 
>>>> champenoise" for the initial fermentation in the bottle.Screw tops 
>>>> come a close second.
>>>>
>>>> Many advantages for screw tops - not least, since the wine can not 
>>>> be "corked", ?there is no reason for the poncing about "tasting" 
>>>> the wine! ?Just pour it out!
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards
>>>>
>>>> Alec
>>>>
>>>> Alec Bray
>>>>
>>>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com <mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
>>>> mob: ???07789 561 346
>>>> home: ??0118 981 7502
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200108/021017f1/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Vielle Ferme.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 18962 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200108/021017f1/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: la-vieille-ferme-ventoux-1443186.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 45540 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200108/021017f1/attachment-0001.jpg>

From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Jan  9 06:21:35 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 12:21:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE electricity
Message-ID: <E2776744-0BAC-4414-987A-7E63F7AC7B09@me.com>

Does anybody here get their electricity via SSE an an old fashioned meter rather than a smart meter?

I keep getting e-mails from SSE saying that my supplied meter readings look incorrect and that I need to supply a new reading.  They are always badgering me to get a smart meter.

When I take a reading, I always photograph the meter via my phone and type in the numbers once I log into their website. If I don't delete those pics, I can see the readings I've supplied for the last few years and they are consistent and utterly predictable.

My cynical mind makes me wonder is these queries are some sort of pathetic ploy to make me switch to a smart meter in order to avoid this imaginary problem.  Do others get similar requests from SSE?

I'm not looking for recommendations for other suppliers, but am just wondering if SSE are playing silly games.


Alan Taylor

From martin at theeccles.uk  Thu Jan  9 06:33:45 2020
From: martin at theeccles.uk (Martin Eccles)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 12:33:45 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE electricity
In-Reply-To: <E2776744-0BAC-4414-987A-7E63F7AC7B09@me.com>
References: <E2776744-0BAC-4414-987A-7E63F7AC7B09@me.com>
Message-ID: <002701d5c6e9$0964ac90$1c2e05b0$@theeccles.uk>

Hi Alan,
I get regular letters from E.on electricity and British Gas.

They are rather threatening with red edges to make them seem like an unpaid
bill.
saying how a smart meter will "bring great benefits" and "create a cleaner,
smarter Britain. "

It just means they don't have to pay for a meter reader man.

Martin.


-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alan Taylor via
Tech1
Sent: 09 January 2020 12:22
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: [Tech1] SSE electricity

Does anybody here get their electricity via SSE an an old fashioned meter
rather than a smart meter?

I keep getting e-mails from SSE saying that my supplied meter readings look
incorrect and that I need to supply a new reading.  They are always
badgering me to get a smart meter.

When I take a reading, I always photograph the meter via my phone and type
in the numbers once I log into their website. If I don't delete those pics,
I can see the readings I've supplied for the last few years and they are
consistent and utterly predictable.

My cynical mind makes me wonder is these queries are some sort of pathetic
ploy to make me switch to a smart meter in order to avoid this imaginary
problem.  Do others get similar requests from SSE?

I'm not looking for recommendations for other suppliers, but am just
wondering if SSE are playing silly games.


Alan Taylor
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Thu Jan  9 06:46:26 2020
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 12:46:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE electricity
Message-ID: <pocbwoq4e2lby9bdsmvfbhgh.1578573986144@email.android.com>

I agree - has any energy supplier actually explained their claim that smart meters save energy, let alone proved it? They can only scare you into cutting back, surely. The only benefit I can see is to themselves in having their billing work done for them.Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Martin Eccles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 09/01/2020  12:33  (GMT+00:00) To: 'Alan Taylor' <alanaudio at me.com> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] SSE electricity Hi Alan,I get regular letters from E.on electricity and British Gas.They are rather threatening with red edges to make them seem like an unpaidbill.saying how a smart meter will "bring great benefits" and "create a cleaner,smarter Britain. "It just means they don't have to pay for a meter reader man.Martin.-----Original Message-----From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alan Taylor viaTech1Sent: 09 January 2020 12:22To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>Subject: [Tech1] SSE electricityDoes anybody here get their electricity via SSE an an old fashioned meterrather than a smart meter?I keep getting e-mails from SSE saying that my supplied meter readings lookincorrect and that I need to supply a new reading.? They are alwaysbadgering me to get a smart meter.When I take a reading, I always photograph the meter via my phone and typein the numbers once I log into their website. If I don't delete those pics,I can see the readings I've supplied for the last few years and they areconsistent and utterly predictable.My cynical mind makes me wonder is these queries are some sort of patheticploy to make me switch to a smart meter in order to avoid this imaginaryproblem.? Do others get similar requests from SSE?I'm not looking for recommendations for other suppliers, but am justwondering if SSE are playing silly games.Alan Taylor-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200109/e1e7cb8c/attachment.html>

From ian.norman at armoor.co.uk  Thu Jan  9 06:58:47 2020
From: ian.norman at armoor.co.uk (ian.norman at armoor.co.uk)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 12:58:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE electricity
In-Reply-To: <pocbwoq4e2lby9bdsmvfbhgh.1578573986144@email.android.com>
References: <pocbwoq4e2lby9bdsmvfbhgh.1578573986144@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <e190d0ff-0f39-2e15-cdf0-24ecb67c08ee@armoor.plus.com>

Hello!

I was informed by EDF my meter was old and because of *possible* 
calibration issues had to be replaced with a smart meter.

There is no mobile phone coverage in my area, so smart meters won't 
work.  Despite that they insisted it had to be replaced.

So now every quarter I have to read a much small LCD display and send 
the readings to them.  Total waste of an engineers time to fit it and 
definitely no savings.


Best regards

Ian Norman

Email: mailto:ian.norman at armoor.co.uk
Telephone: 01643 888181

On 09/01/2020 12:46, vernon.dyer via Tech1 wrote:
> 
> I agree - has any energy supplier actually explained their claim that 
> smart meters save energy, let alone proved it? They can only scare you 
> into cutting back, surely. The only benefit I can see is to themselves 
> in having their billing work done for them.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Martin Eccles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: 09/01/2020 12:33 (GMT+00:00)
> To: 'Alan Taylor' <alanaudio at me.com>
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] SSE electricity
> 
> Hi Alan,
> I get regular letters from E.on electricity and British Gas.
> 
> They are rather threatening with red edges to make them seem like an unpaid
> bill.
> saying how a smart meter will "bring great benefits" and "create a cleaner,
> smarter Britain. "
> 
> It just means they don't have to pay for a meter reader man.
> 
> Martin.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alan Taylor via
> Tech1
> Sent: 09 January 2020 12:22
> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: [Tech1] SSE electricity
> 
> Does anybody here get their electricity via SSE an an old fashioned meter
> rather than a smart meter?
> 
> I keep getting e-mails from SSE saying that my supplied meter readings look
> incorrect and that I need to supply a new reading.? They are always
> badgering me to get a smart meter.
> 
> When I take a reading, I always photograph the meter via my phone and type
> in the numbers once I log into their website. If I don't delete those pics,
> I can see the readings I've supplied for the last few years and they are
> consistent and utterly predictable.
> 
> My cynical mind makes me wonder is these queries are some sort of pathetic
> ploy to make me switch to a smart meter in order to avoid this imaginary
> problem.? Do others get similar requests from SSE?
> 
> I'm not looking for recommendations for other suppliers, but am just
> wondering if SSE are playing silly games.
> 
> 
> Alan Taylor
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 


From tonynuttall at me.com  Thu Jan  9 09:12:52 2020
From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall)
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2020 15:12:52 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
Message-ID: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>

Couple of years ago I was with SSE, found I was being overcharged for
my energy. Some pressure to go "Smart." Always resisted. Went to?OVO
Energy good??savings by comparison with SSE. Recently moved to OCTOPUS
Energy for very good savings on energy. Never pressured to go "Smart" by either
OVO or OCTAPUS.

Tony N (In the wilds of Cumbria)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200109/ffc31373/attachment.html>

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Thu Jan  9 10:23:16 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 16:23:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
Message-ID: <f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>

I would have no truck with SSE - they have a terrible reputation, and I 
can't understand anyone wanting to use them.

However I also cannot understand the resistance to SMART meters. You 
don't get charged any more for having one, and there is the possibility 
in the future of being charged less. Having fewer meter readers does 
mean that the business costs go down a bit and ~might~ result in lower 
rates.

Yes, there has been the idiocy of fitting Type 1 meters, but that has 
caused problems more for the supply companies rather than the customers. 
If you demand that only a Type 2 meter is fitted I don't see what the 
drawback is.

OVO, Octopus, Ecotricity etc have been slow to put in Smart meters 
mainly because they didn't want to foot the bill, particularly until the 
software compatibility problem was solved, which was basically caused by 
government not having any understanding of the purpose of this sort of 
metering.

In one or two areas the ability for customers with smart meters to be 
allowed to use cheap power when excess wind energy is available has 
already proved their value.

Chris Woolf


On 09/01/2020 15:12, William Nuttall via Tech1 wrote:
> Couple of years ago I was with SSE, found I was being overcharged for
> my energy. Some pressure to go "Smart." Always resisted. Went to?OVO
> Energy good??savings by comparison with SSE. Recently moved to OCTOPUS
> Energy for very good savings on energy. Never pressured to go "Smart" 
> by either
> OVO or OCTAPUS.
>
> Tony N (In the wilds of Cumbria)
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200109/843373e8/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  9 11:08:22 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 17:08:22 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <74debdc9-0226-0d8a-d8c1-3a923bf60f5b@gmail.com>


I had an electricity smart meter when I was with First Utility, and when 
I moved to Ovo they were eager to put in a replacement, and a gas one. 
Given that reading my gas meter requires digging in the back of a 
cupboard I was happy for them to set up both meters. I think they are 
type 2, but as I'm about to change again, we'll see what happens.

Reading on the Shell Energy website, it turns out that I'm back with 
First Utility, as Shell have bought them up.

I bet there are people on this list who never change and always accept 
what the company gives them......

B




On 09/01/2020 16:23, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>
> I would have no truck with SSE - they have a terrible reputation, and 
> I can't understand anyone wanting to use them.
>
> However I also cannot understand the resistance to SMART meters. You 
> don't get charged any more for having one, and there is the 
> possibility in the future of being charged less. Having fewer meter 
> readers does mean that the business costs go down a bit and ~might~ 
> result in lower rates.
>
> Yes, there has been the idiocy of fitting Type 1 meters, but that has 
> caused problems more for the supply companies rather than the 
> customers. If you demand that only a Type 2 meter is fitted I don't 
> see what the drawback is.
>
> OVO, Octopus, Ecotricity etc have been slow to put in Smart meters 
> mainly because they didn't want to foot the bill, particularly until 
> the software compatibility problem was solved, which was basically 
> caused by government not having any understanding of the purpose of 
> this sort of metering.
>
> In one or two areas the ability for customers with smart meters to be 
> allowed to use cheap power when excess wind energy is available has 
> already proved their value.
>
> Chris Woolf
>
>
> On 09/01/2020 15:12, William Nuttall via Tech1 wrote:
>> Couple of years ago I was with SSE, found I was being overcharged for
>> my energy. Some pressure to go "Smart." Always resisted. Went to?OVO
>> Energy good??savings by comparison with SSE. Recently moved to OCTOPUS
>> Energy for very good savings on energy. Never pressured to go "Smart" 
>> by either
>> OVO or OCTAPUS.
>>
>> Tony N (In the wilds of Cumbria)
>>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200109/ca1ef4ab/attachment.html>

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Thu Jan  9 11:31:31 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 17:31:31 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <74debdc9-0226-0d8a-d8c1-3a923bf60f5b@gmail.com>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<74debdc9-0226-0d8a-d8c1-3a923bf60f5b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <714e1918-0743-4c2e-b2f3-dd4064c487ad@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Pinched off the web:


Chris Woolf

On 09/01/2020 17:08, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> I had an electricity smart meter when I was with First Utility, and 
> when I moved to Ovo they were eager to put in a replacement, and a gas 
> one. Given that reading my gas meter requires digging in the back of a 
> cupboard I was happy for them to set up both meters. I think they are 
> type 2, but as I'm about to change again, we'll see what happens.
>
> Reading on the Shell Energy website, it turns out that I'm back with 
> First Utility, as Shell have bought them up.
>
> I bet there are people on this list who never change and always accept 
> what the company gives them......
>
> B
>
>
>
>
> On 09/01/2020 16:23, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>
>> I would have no truck with SSE - they have a terrible reputation, and 
>> I can't understand anyone wanting to use them.
>>
>> However I also cannot understand the resistance to SMART meters. You 
>> don't get charged any more for having one, and there is the 
>> possibility in the future of being charged less. Having fewer meter 
>> readers does mean that the business costs go down a bit and ~might~ 
>> result in lower rates.
>>
>> Yes, there has been the idiocy of fitting Type 1 meters, but that has 
>> caused problems more for the supply companies rather than the 
>> customers. If you demand that only a Type 2 meter is fitted I don't 
>> see what the drawback is.
>>
>> OVO, Octopus, Ecotricity etc have been slow to put in Smart meters 
>> mainly because they didn't want to foot the bill, particularly until 
>> the software compatibility problem was solved, which was basically 
>> caused by government not having any understanding of the purpose of 
>> this sort of metering.
>>
>> In one or two areas the ability for customers with smart meters to be 
>> allowed to use cheap power when excess wind energy is available has 
>> already proved their value.
>>
>> Chris Woolf
>>
>>
>> On 09/01/2020 15:12, William Nuttall via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Couple of years ago I was with SSE, found I was being overcharged for
>>> my energy. Some pressure to go "Smart." Always resisted. Went to?OVO
>>> Energy good??savings by comparison with SSE. Recently moved to OCTOPUS
>>> Energy for very good savings on energy. Never pressured to go 
>>> "Smart" by either
>>> OVO or OCTAPUS.
>>>
>>> Tony N (In the wilds of Cumbria)
>>>
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200109/7cfc3b78/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ipdaoekhbajfbmpc.png
Type: image/png
Size: 79860 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200109/7cfc3b78/attachment.png>

From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Jan  9 11:41:05 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 17:41:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5D628A1F-288C-4241-A440-1D53C654D5D7@me.com>

SSE used to be better, but they are sadly lacking these days and I will doubtless switch to another supplier soon.  I've never worried if I end up paying a little more so long as that company offers good service and that's been true with my bank,  internet / cellphone contracts, car insurance and until recently with SSE.  

My biggest beef with smart meters comes from the experiences with two of my neighbours, who have both had them installed in the last 18 months or so.  They both suffer from the power going off briefly while the rest of the village has uninterrupted power.  The guy over the road has got into the habit of sending me an "Power off - Is it just me?" text when his power goes off.

Our village gets it's power via overhead cables and is prone to interruptions, so I certainly don't want extra interruptions.  It's particularly annoying as in our bedroom we have a Marantz mini HiFi which offers a number of unique features, but if the power goes off even for a few seconds, it's a swine to reset as there is no battery backup.  The clock forgets the time and can't be reset manually, only via an internet connection which also gets forgotten when the power goes off, however resetting the internet connection is a right pain. It sounds easy enough when you read the manual, but getting it to work is an awkward process and sometimes won't work at all, while another time following the same procedure, it works instantly. 

As all the problems I have had with SSE and their predecessors have fundamentally been computer based billing issues, I see no reason to imagine that a smart meter would improve anything there.

I don't need real time monitoring of my energy usage.  I can measure the consumption of pretty well anything in the house and have a good understanding of how much power we are using.  Heating is not electric, other than for the pump and control systems and our only major use for electricity is cooking ( no gas here ), lighting is LED everywhere while appliances are mostly energy efficient models.  Our consumption is remarkably consistent and has been so for several years.

Alan Taylor



On 9 Jan 2020, at 9 Jan . 16:23, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I would have no truck with SSE - they have a terrible reputation, and I can't understand anyone wanting to use them.
> 
> However I also cannot understand the resistance to SMART meters. You don't get charged any more for having one, and there is the possibility in the future of being charged less. Having fewer meter readers does mean that the business costs go down a bit and ~might~ result in lower rates.
> 
> Yes, there has been the idiocy of fitting Type 1 meters, but that has caused problems more for the supply companies rather than the customers. If you demand that only a Type 2 meter is fitted I don't see what the drawback is.
> 
> OVO, Octopus, Ecotricity etc have been slow to put in Smart meters mainly because they didn't want to foot the bill, particularly until the software compatibility problem was solved, which was basically caused by government not having any understanding of the purpose of this sort of metering.
> 
> In one or two areas the ability for customers with smart meters to be allowed to use cheap power when excess wind energy is available has already proved their value.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> On 09/01/2020 15:12, William Nuttall via Tech1 wrote:
>> Couple of years ago I was with SSE, found I was being overcharged for
>> my energy. Some pressure to go "Smart." Always resisted. Went to OVO
>> Energy good  savings by comparison with SSE. Recently moved to OCTOPUS
>> Energy for very good savings on energy. Never pressured to go "Smart" by either
>> OVO or OCTAPUS.
>> 
>> Tony N (In the wilds of Cumbria)
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200109/cb7dfd78/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Fri Jan 10 07:47:22 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 13:47:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <58302b93b5dave@davesound.co.uk>

Wish my energy supplier would offer me a smart meter - if this means I get
a remote reader. The leccy one is easy enough to read, but the gas one is
buried in the cellar, beautifully fitted side on so you have to get up
close and personal to read it.

I've also not really understood why a smart meter would save you money.
Unless you are in the habit of leaving things on when not needed. Assuming
you know what watts are. ;-)      


In article <f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
   Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I would have no truck with SSE - they have a terrible reputation, and I 
> can't understand anyone wanting to use them.

> However I also cannot understand the resistance to SMART meters. You 
> don't get charged any more for having one, and there is the possibility 
> in the future of being charged less. Having fewer meter readers does 
> mean that the business costs go down a bit and ~might~ result in lower 
> rates.

> Yes, there has been the idiocy of fitting Type 1 meters, but that has 
> caused problems more for the supply companies rather than the customers. 
> If you demand that only a Type 2 meter is fitted I don't see what the 
> drawback is.

> OVO, Octopus, Ecotricity etc have been slow to put in Smart meters 
> mainly because they didn't want to foot the bill, particularly until the 
> software compatibility problem was solved, which was basically caused by 
> government not having any understanding of the purpose of this sort of 
> metering.

> In one or two areas the ability for customers with smart meters to be 
> allowed to use cheap power when excess wind energy is available has 
> already proved their value.

> Chris Woolf


> On 09/01/2020 15:12, William Nuttall via Tech1 wrote:
> > Couple of years ago I was with SSE, found I was being overcharged for
> > my energy. Some pressure to go "Smart." Always resisted. Went to OVO
> > Energy good  savings by comparison with SSE. Recently moved to OCTOPUS
> > Energy for very good savings on energy. Never pressured to go "Smart" 
> > by either
> > OVO or OCTAPUS.
> >
> > Tony N (In the wilds of Cumbria)
> >

-- 
*I got a job at a bakery because I kneaded dough.*

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Fri Jan 10 10:56:56 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 16:56:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <58302b93b5dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<58302b93b5dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 10/01/2020 13:47, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> I've also not really understood why a smart meter would save you money.
> Unless you are in the habit of leaving things on when not needed. Assuming
> you know what watts are. ;-)

In the short term there is a feasible small saving from people actually 
noticing that the reader unit suddenly shows a sharp rise in consumption 
when something meaty is switched on. Many people are surprised how much 
an oven, tumble drier, electric shower etc uses, and are more cautious 
once they can see the electrons draining away.

Longer term, the purpose is to provide the feedback loop that allows 
dynamic pricing and control. If it can be made to work as intended, the 
system can provide variable off-peak metering far more effectively than 
timer driven systems. If demand is low but, say, wind generation is 
high, the kWh price can be dropped for as little as half an hour, and 
(if smart demand is enabled), heat-pumps, EV car charging etc can be 
remotely switched on. That is a massive benefit to balancing the grid, 
and worth paying customers for. Likewise instantaneous over-demand - the 
none-too-mythical half-time football match kettle switch-on - can be 
covered by dropping the EV car charge for 30 minutes, avoiding 
brown-outs or the need to switch on inefficient diesel generator sets.

This does all make sense, even if smart-grids etc still have to happen. 
But fitting smart meters that monitor what's going on is an essential 
initial part of the infrastructure.

It hasn't been handled at all well so far - governments and 
contracted-out systems are a crap way of doing this sort of thing - but 
that shouldn't be a reason for ~not~? having a SMETS2 meter.

Chris Woolf



From alawrance1 at me.com  Fri Jan 10 13:45:01 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 19:45:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <34474195-63BA-485B-AD0C-F41AC1A728C3@me.com>

So the price per unit can be varied without you knowing?  Neat.

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 10 Jan 2020, at 16:57, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
>> On 10/01/2020 13:47, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
>> I've also not really understood why a smart meter would save you money.
>> Unless you are in the habit of leaving things on when not needed. Assuming
>> you know what watts are. ;-)
> 
> In the short term there is a feasible small saving from people actually noticing that the reader unit suddenly shows a sharp rise in consumption when something meaty is switched on. Many people are surprised how much an oven, tumble drier, electric shower etc uses, and are more cautious once they can see the electrons draining away.
> 
> Longer term, the purpose is to provide the feedback loop that allows dynamic pricing and control. If it can be made to work as intended, the system can provide variable off-peak metering far more effectively than timer driven systems. If demand is low but, say, wind generation is high, the kWh price can be dropped for as little as half an hour, and (if smart demand is enabled), heat-pumps, EV car charging etc can be remotely switched on. That is a massive benefit to balancing the grid, and worth paying customers for. Likewise instantaneous over-demand - the none-too-mythical half-time football match kettle switch-on - can be covered by dropping the EV car charge for 30 minutes, avoiding brown-outs or the need to switch on inefficient diesel generator sets.
> 
> This does all make sense, even if smart-grids etc still have to happen. But fitting smart meters that monitor what's going on is an essential initial part of the infrastructure.
> 
> It hasn't been handled at all well so far - governments and contracted-out systems are a crap way of doing this sort of thing - but that shouldn't be a reason for ~not~  having a SMETS2 meter.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From hughsheppard at btinternet.com  Sat Jan 11 02:36:32 2020
From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 08:36:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<58302b93b5dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <f13a71ac-d41f-dcaf-c9d5-93c00032b7fa@btinternet.com>

Email contributions to Tech1 have changed my point of view towards 
acceptance of smart metering as 'a good thing'. I'm still at sea over 
priorities for a system and whether it can be d-i-y or needs to be 
installed by a supplier. Would Chris or a like-minded convert be kind 
enough to recommend a layman's guide - or put one together for the 
unconverted?

Hugh

On 10-Jan-20 4:56 PM, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>
> On 10/01/2020 13:47, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
>> I've also not really understood why a smart meter would save you money.
>> Unless you are in the habit of leaving things on when not needed. 
>> Assuming
>> you know what watts are. ;-)
>
> In the short term there is a feasible small saving from people 
> actually noticing that the reader unit suddenly shows a sharp rise in 
> consumption when something meaty is switched on. Many people are 
> surprised how much an oven, tumble drier, electric shower etc uses, 
> and are more cautious once they can see the electrons draining away.
>
> Longer term, the purpose is to provide the feedback loop that allows 
> dynamic pricing and control. If it can be made to work as intended, 
> the system can provide variable off-peak metering far more effectively 
> than timer driven systems. If demand is low but, say, wind generation 
> is high, the kWh price can be dropped for as little as half an hour, 
> and (if smart demand is enabled), heat-pumps, EV car charging etc can 
> be remotely switched on. That is a massive benefit to balancing the 
> grid, and worth paying customers for. Likewise instantaneous 
> over-demand - the none-too-mythical half-time football match kettle 
> switch-on - can be covered by dropping the EV car charge for 30 
> minutes, avoiding brown-outs or the need to switch on inefficient 
> diesel generator sets.
>
> This does all make sense, even if smart-grids etc still have to 
> happen. But fitting smart meters that monitor what's going on is an 
> essential initial part of the infrastructure.
>
> It hasn't been handled at all well so far - governments and 
> contracted-out systems are a crap way of doing this sort of thing - 
> but that shouldn't be a reason for ~not~? having a SMETS2 meter.
>
> Chris Woolf
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200111/ccfdf4e4/attachment.html>

From waresound at msn.com  Sat Jan 11 04:35:37 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 10:35:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <f13a71ac-d41f-dcaf-c9d5-93c00032b7fa@btinternet.com>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<58302b93b5dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>,
	<f13a71ac-d41f-dcaf-c9d5-93c00032b7fa@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271AFE64715F865C2973E6DA73B0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

This isn?t a DIY job, and once installed legitimately, would be tamper-proof sealed. I would say, ask your present (or planned) energy provider about having one installed, and whether it would be exclusive to them, or usable by other energy providers.
Ours was here when we moved in, and for that reason only, I decided to stick with British Gas (dual fuel smart metered supplies). Before that contract ends in two months time I shall shop around again.
Or: if you just want to monitor how much electricity you are using, there are various electricity wireless monitors on Amazon that need no installation other than a clamp-on sensor/sender that clamps around the incoming live cable. These are very effective in encouraging you to turn down thermostats, put electric heaters away in a cupboard, not leave TV?s, videos, etc in standby when not needed. And, of course, fit LED?s wherever possible.
Cheers,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 11 Jan 2020, at 08:37, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

Email contributions to Tech1 have changed my point of view towards acceptance of smart metering as 'a good thing'. I'm still at sea over priorities for a system and whether it can be d-i-y or needs to be installed by a supplier. Would Chris or a like-minded convert be kind enough to recommend a layman's guide - or put one together for the unconverted?

Hugh

On 10-Jan-20 4:56 PM, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:

On 10/01/2020 13:47, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
I've also not really understood why a smart meter would save you money.
Unless you are in the habit of leaving things on when not needed. Assuming
you know what watts are. ;-)

In the short term there is a feasible small saving from people actually noticing that the reader unit suddenly shows a sharp rise in consumption when something meaty is switched on. Many people are surprised how much an oven, tumble drier, electric shower etc uses, and are more cautious once they can see the electrons draining away.

Longer term, the purpose is to provide the feedback loop that allows dynamic pricing and control. If it can be made to work as intended, the system can provide variable off-peak metering far more effectively than timer driven systems. If demand is low but, say, wind generation is high, the kWh price can be dropped for as little as half an hour, and (if smart demand is enabled), heat-pumps, EV car charging etc can be remotely switched on. That is a massive benefit to balancing the grid, and worth paying customers for. Likewise instantaneous over-demand - the none-too-mythical half-time football match kettle switch-on - can be covered by dropping the EV car charge for 30 minutes, avoiding brown-outs or the need to switch on inefficient diesel generator sets.

This does all make sense, even if smart-grids etc still have to happen. But fitting smart meters that monitor what's going on is an essential initial part of the infrastructure.

It hasn't been handled at all well so far - governments and contracted-out systems are a crap way of doing this sort of thing - but that shouldn't be a reason for ~not~  having a SMETS2 meter.

Chris Woolf


--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200111/672fac3c/attachment.html>

From tonycrake at gmail.com  Sat Jan 11 04:50:47 2020
From: tonycrake at gmail.com (Tony Crake)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 10:50:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE electricity
In-Reply-To: <002701d5c6e9$0964ac90$1c2e05b0$@theeccles.uk>
References: <E2776744-0BAC-4414-987A-7E63F7AC7B09@me.com>
	<002701d5c6e9$0964ac90$1c2e05b0$@theeccles.uk>
Message-ID: <CAMf6fxXeSmL=EwuV2XTZSmn7e92vg+e6_eOjyPwJ-o=ePa_v=g@mail.gmail.com>

I told SSE I would have a new electric meter if I had a non smart meter !!
Eventually after "argue argue" some time in November

I had a NEW old one fitted..... hurray ! and now please shut up !

This very morning they are at it again with another large envelope of
rubbish !

Tony Crake



On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 at 12:34, Martin Eccles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hi Alan,
> I get regular letters from E.on electricity and British Gas.
>
> They are rather threatening with red edges to make them seem like an unpaid
> bill.
> saying how a smart meter will "bring great benefits" and "create a cleaner,
> smarter Britain. "
>
> It just means they don't have to pay for a meter reader man.
>
> Martin.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alan Taylor via
> Tech1
> Sent: 09 January 2020 12:22
> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: [Tech1] SSE electricity
>
> Does anybody here get their electricity via SSE an an old fashioned meter
> rather than a smart meter?
>
> I keep getting e-mails from SSE saying that my supplied meter readings look
> incorrect and that I need to supply a new reading.  They are always
> badgering me to get a smart meter.
>
> When I take a reading, I always photograph the meter via my phone and type
> in the numbers once I log into their website. If I don't delete those pics,
> I can see the readings I've supplied for the last few years and they are
> consistent and utterly predictable.
>
> My cynical mind makes me wonder is these queries are some sort of pathetic
> ploy to make me switch to a smart meter in order to avoid this imaginary
> problem.  Do others get similar requests from SSE?
>
> I'm not looking for recommendations for other suppliers, but am just
> wondering if SSE are playing silly games.
>
>
> Alan Taylor
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200111/dceb3cfb/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Sat Jan 11 05:31:27 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 11:31:27 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<58302b93b5dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5830a2f7e3dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
   Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Longer term, the purpose is to provide the feedback loop that allows 
> dynamic pricing and control. If it can be made to work as intended, the 
> system can provide variable off-peak metering far more effectively than 
> timer driven systems. If demand is low but, say, wind generation is 
> high, the kWh price can be dropped for as little as half an hour, and 
> (if smart demand is enabled), heat-pumps, EV car charging etc can be 
> remotely switched on. That is a massive benefit to balancing the grid, 
> and worth paying customers for. Likewise instantaneous over-demand - the 
> none-too-mythical half-time football match kettle switch-on - can be 
> covered by dropping the EV car charge for 30 minutes, avoiding 
> brown-outs or the need to switch on inefficient diesel generator sets.

> This does all make sense, even if smart-grids etc still have to happen. 
> But fitting smart meters that monitor what's going on is an essential 
> initial part of the infrastructure.

To have some sort of smart distribution within a house - that could switch
non essential things off during peak demands, like car charging or
whatever, is a whole new ball game. And likely to be met with considerable
consumer resistance. Since some faceless entity telling you you can't do
something you feel you need is so open to abuse.

-- 
*No radio - Already stolen.

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Jan 11 05:53:45 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 11:53:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <5830a2f7e3dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<58302b93b5dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5830a2f7e3dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CE18B254-3BE2-4C63-989B-9809F2B8E6B7@me.com>

"Intelligent" devices need to be more intelligent than designers think they should be.

If I had an electric car and left it charging, I would be pretty miffed if I were to set off on a long journey and find that the battery had only been partially charged because the meter had other ideas.

I've encountered a related issue with my iPhone, where it tries to extend the lifespan of the battery by charging it overnight more gently than at the maximum rate, so that it only becomes fully charged by the time you usually wake up.  Unfortunately if I have a very early start for a long working day, the phone battery might be only 80% charged when I get up at 05:00 because the phone assumed I would be sleeping for another three hours.  I use my phone as an alarm clock and hoped that it would be smart enough to realise that although I generally unplug my phone later in the morning, if I have set the alarm for earlier, I intend to get up earlier.  I've sent a bug report to Apple and hope that this minor issue will be corrected.

Alan Taylor



On 11 Jan 2020, at 11 Jan . 11:31, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
>  Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Longer term, the purpose is to provide the feedback loop that allows 
>> dynamic pricing and control. If it can be made to work as intended, the 
>> system can provide variable off-peak metering far more effectively than 
>> timer driven systems. If demand is low but, say, wind generation is 
>> high, the kWh price can be dropped for as little as half an hour, and 
>> (if smart demand is enabled), heat-pumps, EV car charging etc can be 
>> remotely switched on. That is a massive benefit to balancing the grid, 
>> and worth paying customers for. Likewise instantaneous over-demand - the 
>> none-too-mythical half-time football match kettle switch-on - can be 
>> covered by dropping the EV car charge for 30 minutes, avoiding 
>> brown-outs or the need to switch on inefficient diesel generator sets.
> 
>> This does all make sense, even if smart-grids etc still have to happen. 
>> But fitting smart meters that monitor what's going on is an essential 
>> initial part of the infrastructure.
> 
> To have some sort of smart distribution within a house - that could switch
> non essential things off during peak demands, like car charging or
> whatever, is a whole new ball game. And likely to be met with considerable
> consumer resistance. Since some faceless entity telling you you can't do
> something you feel you need is so open to abuse.
> 
> -- 
> *No radio - Already stolen.
> 
>   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alawrance1 at me.com  Sat Jan 11 06:05:06 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:05:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <CE18B254-3BE2-4C63-989B-9809F2B8E6B7@me.com>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<58302b93b5dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5830a2f7e3dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CE18B254-3BE2-4C63-989B-9809F2B8E6B7@me.com>
Message-ID: <6F413836-D9C5-441D-8301-32B4D559D1DD@me.com>

I would be more amenable to this idea if I thought that variable pricing was in the interests of the population, ie designed to reduce CO2 emissions.

It will, of course, be driven by electricity company income and profit, which is why the recent Labour Party manifesto suggesting re-nationalisation of the electricity supply in these islands should have been a vote winner, but the right wing press had other ideas.....

Alasdair Lawrance
alawrance1 at me.com

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.


> On 11 Jan 2020, at 11:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> "Intelligent" devices need to be more intelligent than designers think they should be.
> 
> If I had an electric car and left it charging, I would be pretty miffed if I were to set off on a long journey and find that the battery had only been partially charged because the meter had other ideas.
> 
> I've encountered a related issue with my iPhone, where it tries to extend the lifespan of the battery by charging it overnight more gently than at the maximum rate, so that it only becomes fully charged by the time you usually wake up.  Unfortunately if I have a very early start for a long working day, the phone battery might be only 80% charged when I get up at 05:00 because the phone assumed I would be sleeping for another three hours.  I use my phone as an alarm clock and hoped that it would be smart enough to realise that although I generally unplug my phone later in the morning, if I have set the alarm for earlier, I intend to get up earlier.  I've sent a bug report to Apple and hope that this minor issue will be corrected.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
> 
> On 11 Jan 2020, at 11 Jan . 11:31, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> In article <7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
>> Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Longer term, the purpose is to provide the feedback loop that allows 
>>> dynamic pricing and control. If it can be made to work as intended, the 
>>> system can provide variable off-peak metering far more effectively than 
>>> timer driven systems. If demand is low but, say, wind generation is 
>>> high, the kWh price can be dropped for as little as half an hour, and 
>>> (if smart demand is enabled), heat-pumps, EV car charging etc can be 
>>> remotely switched on. That is a massive benefit to balancing the grid, 
>>> and worth paying customers for. Likewise instantaneous over-demand - the 
>>> none-too-mythical half-time football match kettle switch-on - can be 
>>> covered by dropping the EV car charge for 30 minutes, avoiding 
>>> brown-outs or the need to switch on inefficient diesel generator sets.
>> 
>>> This does all make sense, even if smart-grids etc still have to happen. 
>>> But fitting smart meters that monitor what's going on is an essential 
>>> initial part of the infrastructure.
>> 
>> To have some sort of smart distribution within a house - that could switch
>> non essential things off during peak demands, like car charging or
>> whatever, is a whole new ball game. And likely to be met with considerable
>> consumer resistance. Since some faceless entity telling you you can't do
>> something you feel you need is so open to abuse.
>> 
>> -- 
>> *No radio - Already stolen.
>> 
>>  Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200111/f32a4e69/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Sat Jan 11 06:13:26 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:13:26 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <CE18B254-3BE2-4C63-989B-9809F2B8E6B7@me.com>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<58302b93b5dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5830a2f7e3dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CE18B254-3BE2-4C63-989B-9809F2B8E6B7@me.com>
Message-ID: <5830a6d005dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <CE18B254-3BE2-4C63-989B-9809F2B8E6B7 at me.com>,
   Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> "Intelligent" devices need to be more intelligent than designers think
> they should be.

> If I had an electric car and left it charging, I would be pretty miffed
> if I were to set off on a long journey and find that the battery had
> only been partially charged because the meter had other ideas.

Quite - or getting up in the morning expecting to find the washing done
and dried, and it's not.

Or popping out Xmas morning with the turkey in the oven and on auto.

I suppose a hose pipe ban was similar - except that the reason for that
was usually fairly obvious. But relied on the individual complying - not
some computer. ;-)

-- 
*No husband has ever been shot while doing the dishes *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Jan 11 06:31:55 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 12:31:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Not so smart TV
Message-ID: <1B266521-F2B9-47B0-85DE-E6F5F53E5112@me.com>

I've got a Sony Bravia TV which suffers from the Dunning-Kruger effect ... it's nowhere near as smart as it thinks it is.

The TV itself produces reasonable pictures and the sound is decent enough, and is fed to my HiFi when I want better sound, but the "smart" features are irritating in the extreme.  It seems to be some sort of Frankenstein TV, cobbled together from unrelated projects.  In some modes, you enter alpha numeric information on an onscreen QWERTY keyboard, while in other modes, it presents a keyboard in alphabetical order. The 7 day programme guide has stopped working and when programmes get recorded locally, the recording is given a name which might not be the correct one, but there's no way to change or edit the name.  iPlayer has stopped working altogether and both the satellite and terrestrial receivers randomly forget channels or renumber them for no apparent reason.  My power monitoring system also revealed an oddity.  When you switch it off, it waits for about five minutes and then switches itself on again in 'dark' mode for a few minutes before switching off again.  I asked Sony to explain exactly what it was doing during that time and why it was doing it surreptitiously, but their reply was evasive.  A Sony user's forum didn't come up with any definite conclusion, but others confirmed that their TVs do the same thing.  

I think the way forward is to abandon all the smart and RF features and just use it as a dumb screen via HDMI. There are a lot of external receivers which look as though they might do some or all of the things I need, but I'm not familiar with most of the manufacturers and don't know what's best or if any should be avoided.  Perhaps somebody here has some experience?

My requirements are to receive Freesat, terrestrial TV, and to include an EPG for sat and DVB.

PVR facilities preferably onto an onboard HD. Recording multiple simultaneous channels is not something we expect to use much, but is likely to be offered.

I would also want to have in-built WiFi with the ability to view all the main UK streaming or catchup services, including BBC iPlayer, ITV hub, Ch4 and My5.  

We only need 1080 HD at the moment, but might be upgrading to 4K at some point.  

A separate audio output to feed our HiFi  would be advantageous, but not essential as an HDMI adaptor could offer an audio output.

I would prefer that it doesn't phone home with data concerning my viewing choices, but it's hard to know which ones do or don't do things like that as few manufacturers seem to be explaining what they are actually up to.

Any thoughts?

Alan Taylor

From waresound at msn.com  Sat Jan 11 08:21:10 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 14:21:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Not so smart TV
In-Reply-To: <1B266521-F2B9-47B0-85DE-E6F5F53E5112@me.com>
References: <1B266521-F2B9-47B0-85DE-E6F5F53E5112@me.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271151C0ACDAE4AB1F6913CA73B0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

We came to exactly the same conclusion, except that ours is a Panasonic, about three years old.
We also have a Samsung in the kitchen that has sound and pic out of sync by several frames, and a delay adjustment feature that does precisely nothing. 
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 11 Jan 2020, at 12:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I've got a Sony Bravia TV which suffers from the Dunning-Kruger effect ... it's nowhere near as smart as it thinks it is.
> [snip]
> I think the way forward is to abandon all the smart and RF features and just use it as a dumb screen via HDMI.
> [snip]
> Alan Taylor
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Sat Jan 11 08:59:18 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 14:59:18 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Not so smart TV
In-Reply-To: <1B266521-F2B9-47B0-85DE-E6F5F53E5112@me.com>
References: <1B266521-F2B9-47B0-85DE-E6F5F53E5112@me.com>
Message-ID: <5830b5ff73dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <1B266521-F2B9-47B0-85DE-E6F5F53E5112 at me.com>,
   Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> My requirements are to receive Freesat, terrestrial TV, and to include
> an EPG for sat and DVB.

I've got an external satellite receiver. And PVR, as I still like to
record some things. Notably Newsnight, as I usually view it the same day,
and don't want the 'coming soon' on FreeView replay.  

Given all these devices seem to fail sooner or later, not sure I'd like
them all combined.

-- 
*Born free - taxed to death *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Jan 11 09:35:09 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 15:35:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <CE18B254-3BE2-4C63-989B-9809F2B8E6B7@me.com>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<58302b93b5dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5830a2f7e3dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CE18B254-3BE2-4C63-989B-9809F2B8E6B7@me.com>
Message-ID: <a57c2a47-3c1b-4e61-90b5-082bdac334df@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 11/01/2020 11:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> ...
>
> If I had an electric car and left it charging, I would be pretty miffed if I were to set off on a long journey and find that the battery had only been partially charged because the meter had other ideas.
>
Agreed. Both system and user need to be intelligent, and understand 
different priorities. However that ~is~ possible. Many large power users 
have contracts that allow temporary load-shedding in exchange for a 
discount on their bills, but with tight controls over what can be shed.

For instance some freezer farms allow short-term disconnection but only 
during the hours when the doors would be shut, and for specific maximum 
times.

With EV cars, and a SMART network, it should be perfectly feasible to to 
override any load dump if you? have an early start. However it ~would~ 
require the user to understand the system and use it properly - many 
people just shut off from thinking about "automatic" systems, and then 
complain when it doesn't do what they wanted.

Currently, power networks have to be over-engineered to cope with peak 
demand. If they can be allowed to shed a load, perhaps only for a few 
minutes, you can knock MWs off the peak.

It is the same with small petrol engines charging electric drive hybrid 
cars. Normally a petrol engine has to be designed to give you good 
acceleration up the steepest hill you might meet. That makes it an 
inefficient design most of the time. If you can design it to run at a 
constant speed, running a generator, and buffered from the motive train 
by a battery, then a tiny engine can be made to be just enough to cope 
with ~average~ power demands - much better fuel efficiency.

Chris Woolf



From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 11 10:09:16 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 16:09:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <a57c2a47-3c1b-4e61-90b5-082bdac334df@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<58302b93b5dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5830a2f7e3dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CE18B254-3BE2-4C63-989B-9809F2B8E6B7@me.com>
	<a57c2a47-3c1b-4e61-90b5-082bdac334df@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyHfH8=OnFF12Y5Ts1KrNXhoP0RzmKBMRh2aWa=1CGYFxQ@mail.gmail.com>

This is my electric smart meter (attached). The gas one is down in the back
of a cupboard.

The gas meter talks to the electric one, which phones home - I think every
30 mins. The man from OVO fitted both in about half an hour.

I'm currently in mid move to Shell. They say I'll need to do a meter
reading at some point, but I imagine the meters will do it for me. We'll
find out in a while.

B

On Sat, 11 Jan 2020, 15:35 Chris Woolf via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

>
> On 11/01/2020 11:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > If I had an electric car and left it charging, I would be pretty miffed
> if I were to set off on a long journey and find that the battery had only
> been partially charged because the meter had other ideas.
> >
> Agreed. Both system and user need to be intelligent, and understand
> different priorities. However that ~is~ possible. Many large power users
> have contracts that allow temporary load-shedding in exchange for a
> discount on their bills, but with tight controls over what can be shed.
>
> For instance some freezer farms allow short-term disconnection but only
> during the hours when the doors would be shut, and for specific maximum
> times.
>
> With EV cars, and a SMART network, it should be perfectly feasible to to
> override any load dump if you  have an early start. However it ~would~
> require the user to understand the system and use it properly - many
> people just shut off from thinking about "automatic" systems, and then
> complain when it doesn't do what they wanted.
>
> Currently, power networks have to be over-engineered to cope with peak
> demand. If they can be allowed to shed a load, perhaps only for a few
> minutes, you can knock MWs off the peak.
>
> It is the same with small petrol engines charging electric drive hybrid
> cars. Normally a petrol engine has to be designed to give you good
> acceleration up the steepest hill you might meet. That makes it an
> inefficient design most of the time. If you can design it to run at a
> constant speed, running a generator, and buffered from the motive train
> by a battery, then a tiny engine can be made to be just enough to cope
> with ~average~ power demands - much better fuel efficiency.
>
> Chris Woolf
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200111/e601cf4b/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: IMG_20200111_160219.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2788153 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200111/e601cf4b/attachment.jpg>

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Jan 11 10:22:52 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 16:22:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <CAA7MLyHfH8=OnFF12Y5Ts1KrNXhoP0RzmKBMRh2aWa=1CGYFxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<58302b93b5dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5830a2f7e3dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CE18B254-3BE2-4C63-989B-9809F2B8E6B7@me.com>
	<a57c2a47-3c1b-4e61-90b5-082bdac334df@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA7MLyHfH8=OnFF12Y5Ts1KrNXhoP0RzmKBMRh2aWa=1CGYFxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fd176809-7736-3815-499b-a6ed56891dad@chriswoolf.co.uk>

I think that's a SMETS1 version, though the comms module (on the top) 
could be changed to a different version in the future.

I'm not sure that they should have fitted it - SMETS2 is supposed to be 
mandatory nowadays - but there are an awful lot of Type 1s still looking 
for homes, with the vague promise of updates in the (distant) future.

Chris Woolf


On 11/01/2020 16:09, Bernard Newnham wrote:
> This is my electric smart meter (attached). The gas one is down in the 
> back of a cupboard.
>
> The gas meter talks to the electric one, which phones home - I think 
> every 30 mins. The man from OVO fitted both in about half an hour.
>
> I'm currently in mid move to Shell. They say I'll need to do a meter 
> reading at some point, but I imagine the meters will do it for me. 
> We'll find out in a while.
>
> B
>
> On Sat, 11 Jan 2020, 15:35 Chris Woolf via Tech1, 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>
>     On 11/01/2020 11:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>     > ...
>     >
>     > If I had an electric car and left it charging, I would be pretty
>     miffed if I were to set off on a long journey and find that the
>     battery had only been partially charged because the meter had
>     other ideas.
>     >
>     Agreed. Both system and user need to be intelligent, and understand
>     different priorities. However that ~is~ possible. Many large power
>     users
>     have contracts that allow temporary load-shedding in exchange for a
>     discount on their bills, but with tight controls over what can be
>     shed.
>
>     For instance some freezer farms allow short-term disconnection but
>     only
>     during the hours when the doors would be shut, and for specific
>     maximum
>     times.
>
>     With EV cars, and a SMART network, it should be perfectly feasible
>     to to
>     override any load dump if you? have an early start. However it
>     ~would~
>     require the user to understand the system and use it properly - many
>     people just shut off from thinking about "automatic" systems, and
>     then
>     complain when it doesn't do what they wanted.
>
>     Currently, power networks have to be over-engineered to cope with
>     peak
>     demand. If they can be allowed to shed a load, perhaps only for a few
>     minutes, you can knock MWs off the peak.
>
>     It is the same with small petrol engines charging electric drive
>     hybrid
>     cars. Normally a petrol engine has to be designed to give you good
>     acceleration up the steepest hill you might meet. That makes it an
>     inefficient design most of the time. If you can design it to run at a
>     constant speed, running a generator, and buffered from the motive
>     train
>     by a battery, then a tiny engine can be made to be just enough to
>     cope
>     with ~average~ power demands - much better fuel efficiency.
>
>     Chris Woolf
>
>
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200111/01209106/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 11 11:47:37 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 17:47:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS
In-Reply-To: <fd176809-7736-3815-499b-a6ed56891dad@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <1dc385fc-c61d-4b8a-9b66-572d2b8a56a5@me.com>
	<f5787d4b-0228-02fa-baa9-89c2941ce1c5@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<58302b93b5dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<7ee37b7c-cb9c-3df2-e541-6a7910699174@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5830a2f7e3dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CE18B254-3BE2-4C63-989B-9809F2B8E6B7@me.com>
	<a57c2a47-3c1b-4e61-90b5-082bdac334df@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA7MLyHfH8=OnFF12Y5Ts1KrNXhoP0RzmKBMRh2aWa=1CGYFxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<fd176809-7736-3815-499b-a6ed56891dad@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyEDUm32YatHiVBJThvjESGWPxOf=KRggT8_wHp6NZ5Sgg@mail.gmail.com>

I think you're right, but it doesn't matter. Someone will come along and
sort it out

B

On Sat, 11 Jan 2020, 16:22 Chris Woolf, <chris at chriswoolf.co.uk> wrote:

> I think that's a SMETS1 version, though the comms module (on the top)
> could be changed to a different version in the future.
>
> I'm not sure that they should have fitted it - SMETS2 is supposed to be
> mandatory nowadays - but there are an awful lot of Type 1s still looking
> for homes, with the vague promise of updates in the (distant) future.
>
> Chris Woolf
>
>
> On 11/01/2020 16:09, Bernard Newnham wrote:
>
> This is my electric smart meter (attached). The gas one is down in the
> back of a cupboard.
>
> The gas meter talks to the electric one, which phones home - I think every
> 30 mins. The man from OVO fitted both in about half an hour.
>
> I'm currently in mid move to Shell. They say I'll need to do a meter
> reading at some point, but I imagine the meters will do it for me. We'll
> find out in a while.
>
> B
>
> On Sat, 11 Jan 2020, 15:35 Chris Woolf via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 11/01/2020 11:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> > ...
>> >
>> > If I had an electric car and left it charging, I would be pretty miffed
>> if I were to set off on a long journey and find that the battery had only
>> been partially charged because the meter had other ideas.
>> >
>> Agreed. Both system and user need to be intelligent, and understand
>> different priorities. However that ~is~ possible. Many large power users
>> have contracts that allow temporary load-shedding in exchange for a
>> discount on their bills, but with tight controls over what can be shed.
>>
>> For instance some freezer farms allow short-term disconnection but only
>> during the hours when the doors would be shut, and for specific maximum
>> times.
>>
>> With EV cars, and a SMART network, it should be perfectly feasible to to
>> override any load dump if you  have an early start. However it ~would~
>> require the user to understand the system and use it properly - many
>> people just shut off from thinking about "automatic" systems, and then
>> complain when it doesn't do what they wanted.
>>
>> Currently, power networks have to be over-engineered to cope with peak
>> demand. If they can be allowed to shed a load, perhaps only for a few
>> minutes, you can knock MWs off the peak.
>>
>> It is the same with small petrol engines charging electric drive hybrid
>> cars. Normally a petrol engine has to be designed to give you good
>> acceleration up the steepest hill you might meet. That makes it an
>> inefficient design most of the time. If you can design it to run at a
>> constant speed, running a generator, and buffered from the motive train
>> by a battery, then a tiny engine can be made to be just enough to cope
>> with ~average~ power demands - much better fuel efficiency.
>>
>> Chris Woolf
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200111/dea51971/attachment.html>

From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat Jan 11 15:13:52 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 21:13:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 'Smart' meters
Message-ID: <8edb3806-9b22-6b97-8672-35cf512db009@btinternet.com>

Many years ago, before the recent craze to have these installed ,I opted 
to have a similar device fitted. The man came, couldn't get any 
reception from the Orange phone network in my understairs cupboard, and 
went away. Lateron, I was given a clamp-on device by EDF which told me 
how much electricity I was using at any one time and , if I could have 
programmed the unit price into it, how much I was spending!? So what? 
That was the last I heard until this latest push, I haven't bothered 
since because I know that if I leave a fan heater going it will cost 
more than a room light and so on. Common sense is all it takes and I 
don't want a 'Big Brother' in my house knowing what I am using or not. 
Beware Alexa-type devices which listen in to your conversations so that 
you can be targetted with local ads. etc. The world has gone control 
mad! /I have spoke! /Cheers, Dave

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200111/9402e81d/attachment.html>

From alawrance1 at me.com  Sat Jan 11 15:26:18 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 21:26:18 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 'Smart' meters
In-Reply-To: <8edb3806-9b22-6b97-8672-35cf512db009@btinternet.com>
References: <8edb3806-9b22-6b97-8672-35cf512db009@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <7C87D58F-F33C-4EB4-BE92-BEF3AE713E5C@me.com>

Agree, Dave, but most people appear quite unaware of the potential consequences of these gadgets.

They will relay whatever your listening to (and/or therefore watching) as well as ordering stuff from Amazon if you?re not careful.

And imagine the outcry if government of any persuasion said we should have an Alexa type box in every room in the house.

And I won?t mention Fitbit and the like, and what they are collecting about you.....!

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 11 Jan 2020, at 21:14, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Many years ago, before the recent craze to have these installed ,I opted to have a similar device fitted. The man came, couldn't get any reception from the Orange phone network in my understairs cupboard, and went away. Lateron, I was given a clamp-on device by EDF which told me how much electricity I was using at any one time and , if I could have programmed the unit price into it, how much I was spending!  So what? That was the last I heard until this latest push, I haven't bothered since because I know that if I leave a fan heater going it will cost more than a room light and so on. Common sense is all it takes and I don't want a 'Big Brother' in my house knowing what I am using or not. Beware Alexa-type devices which listen in to your conversations so that you can be targetted with local ads. etc. The world has gone control mad! I have spoke!  Cheers, Dave
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200111/2c7487cf/attachment.html>

From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Sat Jan 11 17:02:29 2020
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 23:02:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 'Smart' meters
In-Reply-To: <7C87D58F-F33C-4EB4-BE92-BEF3AE713E5C@me.com>
References: <8edb3806-9b22-6b97-8672-35cf512db009@btinternet.com>
	<7C87D58F-F33C-4EB4-BE92-BEF3AE713E5C@me.com>
Message-ID: <b36649bc-4cf1-599d-a245-e146292feb17@howell61.f9.co.uk>

When the children next door are

playing their music outside I? must try yelling: 'Alexa, stop the music 
& never play any ever again'

John H.


On 11/01/2020 21:26, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote:
> Agree, Dave, but most people appear quite unaware of the potential 
> consequences of these gadgets.
>
> They will relay whatever your listening to (and/or therefore watching) 
> as well as ordering stuff from Amazon if you?re not careful.
>
> And imagine the outcry if government of any persuasion said we should 
> have an Alexa type box in every room in the house.
>
> And I won?t mention Fitbit and the like, and what they are collecting 
> about you.....!
>
> Alasdair Lawrance
>
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>
>
>
>> On 11 Jan 2020, at 21:14, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Many years ago, before the recent craze to have these installed ,I 
>> opted to have a similar device fitted. The man came, couldn't get any 
>> reception from the Orange phone network in my understairs cupboard, 
>> and went away. Lateron, I was given a clamp-on device by EDF which 
>> told me how much electricity I was using at any one time and , if I 
>> could have programmed the unit price into it, how much I was 
>> spending!? So what? That was the last I heard until this latest push, 
>> I haven't bothered since because I know that if I leave a fan heater 
>> going it will cost more than a room light and so on. Common sense is 
>> all it takes and I don't want a 'Big Brother' in my house knowing 
>> what I am using or not. Beware Alexa-type devices which listen in to 
>> your conversations so that you can be targetted with local ads. etc. 
>> The world has gone control mad! /I have spoke! /Cheers, Dave
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200111/1d6af65e/attachment.html>

From mibridge at mac.com  Sat Jan 11 17:15:31 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 23:15:31 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] 'Smart' meters
In-Reply-To: <7C87D58F-F33C-4EB4-BE92-BEF3AE713E5C@me.com>
References: <8edb3806-9b22-6b97-8672-35cf512db009@btinternet.com>
	<7C87D58F-F33C-4EB4-BE92-BEF3AE713E5C@me.com>
Message-ID: <8156BB9D-4F3F-4F7D-8330-D93B23D710B8@mac.com>

Go on Alasdair ~ do mention what FitBit and the like are up to!

Mike G


> On 11 Jan 2020, at 21:26, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Agree, Dave, but most people appear quite unaware of the potential consequences of these gadgets.
> 
> They will relay whatever your listening to (and/or therefore watching) as well as ordering stuff from Amazon if you?re not careful.
> 
> And imagine the outcry if government of any persuasion said we should have an Alexa type box in every room in the house.
> 
> And I won?t mention Fitbit and the like, and what they are collecting about you.....!
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 11 Jan 2020, at 21:14, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> Many years ago, before the recent craze to have these installed ,I opted to have a similar device fitted. The man came, couldn't get any reception from the Orange phone network in my understairs cupboard, and went away. Lateron, I was given a clamp-on device by EDF which told me how much electricity I was using at any one time and , if I could have programmed the unit price into it, how much I was spending!  So what? That was the last I heard until this latest push, I haven't bothered since because I know that if I leave a fan heater going it will cost more than a room light and so on. Common sense is all it takes and I don't want a 'Big Brother' in my house knowing what I am using or not. Beware Alexa-type devices which listen in to your conversations so that you can be targetted with local ads. etc. The world has gone control mad! I have spoke!  Cheers, Dave
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200111/5fe86c71/attachment.html>

From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Jan 12 07:40:20 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 13:40:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Unusual product from Ikea
Message-ID: <27CFC180-2939-4B01-A71D-FD4ED56F1C95@me.com>

Ikea have recently introduced Oddlaug sound absorbing panels. You get a pack of 15 grey fibre panels, each one about the size of a 7" vinyl disc for ?25.  The individual elements link together and can be hung on the wall.

It's not a product which I need because I live in a quiet area, am aware of the acoustic implications of materials chosen to go in my home and would know how to address acoustic problems anyway, but I'm intrigued because I've never previously seen any mainstream company selling acoustic treatment products for home or office use.

I would guess from the dimensions and materials that their effectiveness would be somewhat limited, mainly absorbing fairly high frequency sounds and having negligible effect at lower frequencies, but mid to high frequency sounds can be particularly annoying.  Some people might imagine that it might be a way of making a room soundproof, which it clearly isn't and doesn't claim to do, but I suspect that there will be some disappointed customers discovering that even with a wall covered with these panels, their neighbour's powerful music system still remains clearly audible.

Alan Taylor




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200112/5bcc330a/attachment.html>

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sun Jan 12 08:20:46 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 14:20:46 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Unusual product from Ikea
In-Reply-To: <27CFC180-2939-4B01-A71D-FD4ED56F1C95@me.com>
References: <27CFC180-2939-4B01-A71D-FD4ED56F1C95@me.com>
Message-ID: <f087e442-9de5-9a7b-1ea9-2a3b66ef5e7b@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Interesting product.

It would have minimal effect on sound coming into the building from 
outside - it's designed for improving internal acoustics, and in 
fairness the description of the product is entirely accurate. If people 
bought it to exclude the neighbour's noise, then they have only 
themselves to blame.

In fact the LF absorption might not be that bad. They do advise hanging 
them at a distance from the wall making them into a passable bass trap.

The Scandi approach to hard floors and walls, plus an uncluttered 
furnishing (as is met in many restaurants) does require a fair bit of 
acoustic softening - IKEA must have spotted that.

Chris Woolf


On 12/01/2020 13:40, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> Ikea have recently introduced Oddlaug 
> <https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/oddlaug-sound-absorbing-panel-grey-00427366/>?sound 
> absorbing panels. You get a pack of 15 grey fibre panels, each one 
> about the size of a 7" vinyl disc for ?25. ?The individual elements 
> link together and can be hung on the wall.
>
> It's not a product which I need because I live in a quiet area, am 
> aware of the acoustic implications of materials chosen to go in my 
> home and would know how to address acoustic problems anyway, but I'm 
> intrigued because I've never previously seen any mainstream company 
> selling acoustic treatment products for home or office use.
>
> I would guess from the dimensions and materials that their 
> effectiveness would be somewhat limited, mainly absorbing fairly high 
> frequency sounds and having negligible effect at lower frequencies, 
> but mid to high frequency sounds can be particularly annoying. ?Some 
> people might imagine that it might be a way of making a room 
> soundproof, which it clearly isn't and doesn't claim to do, but I 
> suspect that there will be some disappointed customers discovering 
> that even with a wall covered with these panels, their neighbour's 
> powerful music system still remains clearly audible.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200112/23ac2807/attachment.html>

From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sun Jan 12 11:01:36 2020
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 17:01:36 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Unusual product from Ikea
In-Reply-To: <27CFC180-2939-4B01-A71D-FD4ED56F1C95@me.com>
References: <27CFC180-2939-4B01-A71D-FD4ED56F1C95@me.com>
Message-ID: <B89C94757E004D5BA94E9B66DAC9B73D@Gigabyte>

Ikea are branching out into main shopping centres.
Their Estates Dept has just bought The Kings Mall in Hammersmith and intends to open a store there (no place to park to pick up things though)
http://www.hammersmithtoday.co.uk/default.asp?section=info&page=conikea001.htm

That is also backing onto what Hammersmith wants to turn the old railway viaduct (the original Latimer Road to Ravenscourt park line) just west of the station into a garden walkway like to one in New York. Spose to make it upmarket with all the flats in Glenthorne Road

Regarding the ?soundproofk? panels, I forget where I just read it but of course if your neighbour is ?Alexered?, you can shout very loudly through the wall to tell her to shutup for ever!

Mike



From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 1:40 PM
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat 
Subject: [Tech1] Unusual product from Ikea

Ikea have recently introduced Oddlaug sound absorbing panels. You get a pack of 15 grey fibre panels, each one about the size of a 7" vinyl disc for ?25.  The individual elements link together and can be hung on the wall. 

It's not a product which I need because I live in a quiet area, am aware of the acoustic implications of materials chosen to go in my home and would know how to address acoustic problems anyway, but I'm intrigued because I've never previously seen any mainstream company selling acoustic treatment products for home or office use.

I would guess from the dimensions and materials that their effectiveness would be somewhat limited, mainly absorbing fairly high frequency sounds and having negligible effect at lower frequencies, but mid to high frequency sounds can be particularly annoying.  Some people might imagine that it might be a way of making a room soundproof, which it clearly isn't and doesn't claim to do, but I suspect that there will be some disappointed customers discovering that even with a wall covered with these panels, their neighbour's powerful music system still remains clearly audible.

Alan Taylor






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200112/caa23ebc/attachment.html>

From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 12 17:33:47 2020
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 23:33:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters
Message-ID: <B865EF5A-6ED8-47AA-80EB-C10CF1469151@gmail.com>

We opted for a smart meter about four or five years ago on the grounds that it would enable accurate billing and every household was supposed to have them sooner or later. I wasn?t planning to do close monitoring of our usage as we try to be careful anyway and didn?t want it to be a constant worry. We have a tumble dryer but it only gets used when necessary as we normally line-dry and the washing is nicer when it?s been out in the open air and we have a garden that affords that option. 
This was all very good till we switched from SSE to EoN for a better deal and the smart meter wasn?t compatible with their system. It does still give readings though which is useful as I keep a monthly log of our electricity, gas and water usage and it?s easier to read the gadget than looking at the meters themselves. I?m glad we have it for that reason and when they finally settle on a common system, we will get another smart meter,
Geoff

> On 11 Jan 2020, at 08:37, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Jan 13 06:20:16 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 12:20:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters
In-Reply-To: <B865EF5A-6ED8-47AA-80EB-C10CF1469151@gmail.com>
References: <B865EF5A-6ED8-47AA-80EB-C10CF1469151@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <de0b399d-9f2e-b015-91c2-a9aee6207d7f@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 12/01/2020 23:33, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 wrote:
> ...
> This was all very good till we switched from SSE to EoN for a better deal and the smart meter wasn?t compatible with their system. ...
>
Rather as standards dropped at Auntie, once the Engineering Dept was got 
rid of, and the idea came into fashion that "the market" will make 
everything work, this approach ~never~ delivers. Government needs to 
specify standards ~before~ issuing licences for just about anything, and 
police them afterwards. Otherwise you can guarantee that everyone will 
choose whatever suits themselves, and is cheap, rather than being for 
the greater good.

I'm amused that the problem of lousy coverage for mobile phones in rural 
areas, caused by "competition" is likely to be solved by enforcing all 
providers to share networks - in effect producing the single network 
that has ~always~ made more sense than half a dozen competing ones 
putting up their own towers.

Chris Woolf



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Jan 13 07:55:13 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 13:55:13 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters
In-Reply-To: <B865EF5A-6ED8-47AA-80EB-C10CF1469151@gmail.com>
References: <B865EF5A-6ED8-47AA-80EB-C10CF1469151@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5e1c76c0.1c69fb81.5c1c0.9d6e@mx.google.com>

Some years ago, SSE offered me a smart electricity meter. There was a good Vodafone signal from the hall cupboard, so meter was installed.
I don?t use much power in a small flat, but enjoy looking at the display for ?instant? consumption. A small table top electric oven rockets the reading into Kw! But by switching off various appliances one can get an idea of each one?s consumption!
Electric heating is probably the most expensive ? remember night storage heaters? One of the blocks of flats here does not have gas, so they are forced into electric. However, my heating is gas-fired boiler water radiators, and I get the benefit of heat percolating up from the flat below!
I had to have a new boiler five years ago, as the original Potterton which served well for nearly 40 years was bereft of spare parts.
A new Worcester/Bosch cost me ?4500, but I got a new hot water cylinder, immersion heater, circulating pump, filter and timer control, as well as getting the engineers to bring the connections to the cupboard installed hot cylinder around to the front for easier access. The original builders had put all that at the back if the cupboard ? very difficult to get to when a leak occurred!
Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1
Sent: 12 January 2020 23:34
To: Hugh Sheppard via Tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters

We opted for a smart meter about four or five years ago on the grounds that it would enable accurate billing and every household was supposed to have them sooner or later. I wasn?t planning to do close monitoring of our usage as we try to be careful anyway and didn?t want it to be a constant worry. We have a tumble dryer but it only gets used when necessary as we normally line-dry and the washing is nicer when it?s been out in the open air and we have a garden that affords that option. 
This was all very good till we switched from SSE to EoN for a better deal and the smart meter wasn?t compatible with their system. It does still give readings though which is useful as I keep a monthly log of our electricity, gas and water usage and it?s easier to read the gadget than looking at the meters themselves. I?m glad we have it for that reason and when they finally settle on a common system, we will get another smart meter,
Geoff

> On 11 Jan 2020, at 08:37, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200113/e56f780f/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Mon Jan 13 08:35:39 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:35:39 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters
In-Reply-To: <5e1c76c0.1c69fb81.5c1c0.9d6e@mx.google.com>
References: <B865EF5A-6ED8-47AA-80EB-C10CF1469151@gmail.com>
	<5e1c76c0.1c69fb81.5c1c0.9d6e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5831bb8021dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <5e1c76c0.1c69fb81.5c1c0.9d6e at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> A new Worcester/Bosch cost me ?4500, but I got a new hot water cylinder,
> immersion heater, circulating pump, filter and timer control, as well as
> getting the engineers to bring the connections to the cupboard installed
> hot cylinder around to the front for easier access. The original
> builders had put all that at the back if the cupboard ? very difficult
> to get to when a leak occurred!

Crikey. Glad I can DIY. Changed my ancient Potterton for a condensing
Viessmann. Got it new off Ebay for about 1/3rd less than the local agent
wanted. Took me about 3 days to change it all for a total cost of under
?1500. The new boiler is what they call a system boiler with just about
everything needed inside it, so if it ever needs changing again, less
alteration to the pipework will be needed. Biggest job was probably making
a new hole in the outside wall for the flue, and filling in where the old
larger terminal was. Viessmann UK helpline was excellent with helping
setting up the weather compensation software - even although they knew I
was doing a self install.

-- 
*Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired.

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Jan 13 08:53:15 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:53:15 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters
In-Reply-To: <5831bb8021dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <B865EF5A-6ED8-47AA-80EB-C10CF1469151@gmail.com>
	<5e1c76c0.1c69fb81.5c1c0.9d6e@mx.google.com>
	<5831bb8021dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5e1c845a.1c69fb81.5e3ff.de9e@mx.google.com>

I wouldn?t even think about attempting a DIY installation, Dave.
More power to your elbow.
The replacement wasn?t without incident ? at one stage there were
four guys in my galley kitchen: the engineer installer, a trainee, an electrician,
and someone to organise the flue brickwork.
I should have said NO to the trainee, as he put in the condensing pipe outlet
exactly where I had told the installer not to put it. He forgot to tell him!
(it screwed up an interior shelf in the under sink cupboard).
Also they nicked a 13A socket in order to fit an isolator switch.
But I would not have known what was necessary for safety.
They were worried about the existing flue as it was now too near the kitchen window.
but solved it by angling it away.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 13 January 2020 14:36
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters

In article <5e1c76c0.1c69fb81.5c1c0.9d6e at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> A new Worcester/Bosch cost me ?4500, but I got a new hot water cylinder,
> immersion heater, circulating pump, filter and timer control, as well as
> getting the engineers to bring the connections to the cupboard installed
> hot cylinder around to the front for easier access. The original
> builders had put all that at the back if the cupboard ? very difficult
> to get to when a leak occurred!

Crikey. Glad I can DIY. Changed my ancient Potterton for a condensing
Viessmann. Got it new off Ebay for about 1/3rd less than the local agent
wanted. Took me about 3 days to change it all for a total cost of under
?1500. The new boiler is what they call a system boiler with just about
everything needed inside it, so if it ever needs changing again, less
alteration to the pipework will be needed. Biggest job was probably making
a new hole in the outside wall for the flue, and filling in where the old
larger terminal was. Viessmann UK helpline was excellent with helping
setting up the weather compensation software - even although they knew I
was doing a self install.

-- 
*Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired.

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200113/1de1b48a/attachment.html>

From mibridge at mac.com  Mon Jan 13 09:08:40 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:08:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters
In-Reply-To: <5e1c845a.1c69fb81.5e3ff.de9e@mx.google.com>
References: <5e1c845a.1c69fb81.5e3ff.de9e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CC84398C-457C-44B5-998D-9C70200B76BE@mac.com>

Speaking as an avid DIYer, with 2 boilers under my belt, so to speak, nowadays I?m pretty sure that household insurance will be compromised by self-installed gaswork, in the event of a claim relating to gas, as installation has to be carried out by an approved installer - unless you are so qualified Dave. I?ve got a friendly plumber who let me do all of the radiators and associated pipe work in our current house, and then did a system flush and check in order to qualify the whole system for warranty, but he insisted that any work to the boiler had to be down to him. 

Mike G

> On 13 Jan 2020, at 14:53, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I wouldn?t even think about attempting a DIY installation, Dave.
> More power to your elbow.
> The replacement wasn?t without incident ? at one stage there were
> four guys in my galley kitchen: the engineer installer, a trainee, an electrician,
> and someone to organise the flue brickwork.
> I should have said NO to the trainee, as he put in the condensing pipe outlet
> exactly where I had told the installer not to put it. He forgot to tell him!
> (it screwed up an interior shelf in the under sink cupboard).
> Also they nicked a 13A socket in order to fit an isolator switch.
> But I would not have known what was necessary for safety.
> They were worried about the existing flue as it was now too near the kitchen window.
> but solved it by angling it away.
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
> Sent: 13 January 2020 14:36
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters
>  
> In article <5e1c76c0.1c69fb81.5c1c0.9d6e at mx.google.com>,
>    patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> > A new Worcester/Bosch cost me ?4500, but I got a new hot water cylinder,
> > immersion heater, circulating pump, filter and timer control, as well as
> > getting the engineers to bring the connections to the cupboard installed
> > hot cylinder around to the front for easier access. The original
> > builders had put all that at the back if the cupboard ? very difficult
> > to get to when a leak occurred!
>  
> Crikey. Glad I can DIY. Changed my ancient Potterton for a condensing
> Viessmann. Got it new off Ebay for about 1/3rd less than the local agent
> wanted. Took me about 3 days to change it all for a total cost of under
> ?1500. The new boiler is what they call a system boiler with just about
> everything needed inside it, so if it ever needs changing again, less
> alteration to the pipework will be needed. Biggest job was probably making
> a new hole in the outside wall for the flue, and filling in where the old
> larger terminal was. Viessmann UK helpline was excellent with helping
> setting up the weather compensation software - even although they knew I
> was doing a self install.
>  
> --
> *Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired.
>  
>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>    
>  
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200113/63082c05/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Mon Jan 13 09:27:35 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:27:35 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters
In-Reply-To: <CC84398C-457C-44B5-998D-9C70200B76BE@mac.com>
References: <5e1c845a.1c69fb81.5e3ff.de9e@mx.google.com>
	<CC84398C-457C-44B5-998D-9C70200B76BE@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5831c041f7dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <CC84398C-457C-44B5-998D-9C70200B76BE at mac.com>,
   Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com> wrote:
> Speaking as an avid DIYer, with 2 boilers under my belt, so to speak,
> nowadays I?m pretty sure that household insurance will be compromised by
> self-installed gaswork, in the event of a claim relating to gas, as
> installation has to be carried out by an approved installer - unless you
> are so qualified Dave. I?ve got a friendly plumber who let me do all of
> the radiators and associated pipe work in our current house, and then
> did a system flush and check in order to qualify the whole system for
> warranty, but he insisted that any work to the boiler had to be down to
> him. 

Assuming you are competent - a requirement when working on gas - just how
is that insurance company going to know any such claim is related to your
work? Or indeed going to know or suspect it wasn't done by one who is
supposedly qualified?

BTW, a fitter supplied by a company who is registered may not himself be
registered. It's one of these self regulating things.

I'd not for a second suggest anyone who doesn't know what they're doing
fiddles with anything. But I'd say I'm more concerned about *my* safety
than many plumbers. ;-)

-- 
*Letting a cat out of the bag is easier than putting it back in *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From waresound at msn.com  Mon Jan 13 09:46:55 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:46:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271A4E531D8030B407AB50FA7350@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

?Nothing to do with smart meters, but while we?re talking about boilers:
When we moved into our last house in 1984 I installed a complete new boiler and central heating system entirely by myself. Out went the old coke back-boiler in the Maid?s parlour and in with a Potterton T60. Potterton were in Wandsworth, and one could just walk in and buy parts. The total cost of that DIY installation was well under ?1500. (Getting the gas supply to it is a story for another day.)
All went well until about ten years later when the boiler started dripping water onto the floor. I popped into Potterton, who said it must be a leaky gasket. ?You might cure the drip by tightening the tie-bolts, but in case that doesn?t do the trick, here?s a complete set of gaskets, free of charge. They?re only pence, not worth raising an invoice for?. I did have to strip the boiler down, dead easy, not unlike dismantling a Triumph Herald engine, which I was used to doing. Reassembled with new gaskets, it was then good for another 22 years! Then, as part of other updates about five years ago I got British Gas to renew everything, including a new British Gas branded Vaillant boiler. The Potterton had done approx 30 years? faultless service, apart from those gaskets and a couple of igniter replacements down the years. The Vaillant installer reckoned that the Potterton, though still working at the time of removal, was down to around 20% of its original rated efficiency, due to limescale and rust.
So you see, it?s not always a good idea to keep your old boiler too long (if you get my drift!)

It actually was called the Maid?s parlour, by the way. The house had an electric call button system that rang a bell and waggled star indicators in the parlour to show which room you were calling from, including one by the bath.
When we moved in, the rest of the house was heated by huge brick filled night-storage electric heaters, each one weighing about 1 cwt. and all powered off 415Volts three phase. Total load available incoming was 200Amps on each phase! The previous owner was the inventor of the off-peak electricity scheme, and night-storage heaters. And bearing in mind that the night tariff then was only about 1.25p per kWh, it wasn?t such a daft idea.  We, of course, got rid of all that as soon as we moved in, the bricks later to become sawtoothed flower border edging stones. What we didn?t know was that all the fluffy insulation stuff we shovelled into a skip was Asbestos, and that the cylindrical fan in the base of each heater was blowing Asbestos dust into the room all the time they were running.
We also replaced several cwt of Lead sheathed mains cable, and a Lead water mains supply pipe from the road into our kitchen.
If only I had the energy for all that stuff now!!
Cheers,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200113/1e05e880/attachment.html>

From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Mon Jan 13 09:47:22 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:47:22 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters
In-Reply-To: <5831c041f7dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <5e1c845a.1c69fb81.5e3ff.de9e@mx.google.com><CC84398C-457C-44B5-998D-9C70200B76BE@mac.com>
	<5831c041f7dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7BB9A325D2544EB4BE37989B7581ED97@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Registered fitters issue certification of their installation and 
commissioning work and interested parties may well ask to see such when 
considering any claim.

Just a thought,

Dave Newbitt.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 3:27 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters

In article <CC84398C-457C-44B5-998D-9C70200B76BE at mac.com>,
   Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com> wrote:
> Speaking as an avid DIYer, with 2 boilers under my belt, so to speak,
> nowadays I?m pretty sure that household insurance will be compromised by
> self-installed gaswork, in the event of a claim relating to gas, as
> installation has to be carried out by an approved installer - unless you
> are so qualified Dave. I?ve got a friendly plumber who let me do all of
> the radiators and associated pipe work in our current house, and then
> did a system flush and check in order to qualify the whole system for
> warranty, but he insisted that any work to the boiler had to be down to
> him.

Assuming you are competent - a requirement when working on gas - just how
is that insurance company going to know any such claim is related to your
work? Or indeed going to know or suspect it wasn't done by one who is
supposedly qualified?

BTW, a fitter supplied by a company who is registered may not himself be
registered. It's one of these self regulating things.

I'd not for a second suggest anyone who doesn't know what they're doing
fiddles with anything. But I'd say I'm more concerned about *my* safety
than many plumbers. ;-)

-- 
*Letting a cat out of the bag is easier than putting it back in *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Jan 13 09:52:06 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:52:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters
In-Reply-To: <5831c041f7dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <5e1c845a.1c69fb81.5e3ff.de9e@mx.google.com>
	<CC84398C-457C-44B5-998D-9C70200B76BE@mac.com>
	<5831c041f7dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5e1c9225.1c69fb81.bbf20.01f4@mx.google.com>

Mike G has a very valid point, Dave.
Your insurance company has every right to enquire as to who installed the kit.
(as we know every trick is employed not to pay out!)
My Managing Agents for my flat complex employed an electrician for several years
until I asked him (as a private job) to install a new consumer unit.
He refused, as he was not qualified to do so.
Again, a proviso for insurance purposes.
Don?t risk it, Dave.
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 13 January 2020 15:33
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters

In article <CC84398C-457C-44B5-998D-9C70200B76BE at mac.com>,
   Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com> wrote:
> Speaking as an avid DIYer, with 2 boilers under my belt, so to speak,
> nowadays I?m pretty sure that household insurance will be compromised by
> self-installed gaswork, in the event of a claim relating to gas, as
> installation has to be carried out by an approved installer - unless you
> are so qualified Dave. I?ve got a friendly plumber who let me do all of
> the radiators and associated pipe work in our current house, and then
> did a system flush and check in order to qualify the whole system for
> warranty, but he insisted that any work to the boiler had to be down to
> him. 

Assuming you are competent - a requirement when working on gas - just how
is that insurance company going to know any such claim is related to your
work? Or indeed going to know or suspect it wasn't done by one who is
supposedly qualified?

BTW, a fitter supplied by a company who is registered may not himself be
registered. It's one of these self regulating things.

I'd not for a second suggest anyone who doesn't know what they're doing
fiddles with anything. But I'd say I'm more concerned about *my* safety
than many plumbers. ;-)


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200113/7b12ceaa/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Mon Jan 13 11:00:23 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 17:00:23 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] SSE, OVO, OCTAPUS Smart Meters
In-Reply-To: <5e1c9225.1c69fb81.bbf20.01f4@mx.google.com>
References: <5e1c845a.1c69fb81.5e3ff.de9e@mx.google.com>
	<CC84398C-457C-44B5-998D-9C70200B76BE@mac.com>
	<5831c041f7dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<5e1c9225.1c69fb81.bbf20.01f4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5831c8c107dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <5e1c9225.1c69fb81.bbf20.01f4 at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
> Your insurance company has every right to enquire as to who installed
> the kit.

If I were making a claim related or resulting from it, yes.

> (as we know every trick is employed not to pay out!)

Are you saying if you don't have the correct paperwork they can refuse any
claim? Great if the house and paperwork were all burned down at the same
time. ;-) 


> My Managing Agents for my flat complex employed an electrician for
> several years until I asked him (as a private job) to install a new
> consumer unit. He refused, as he was not qualified to do so. Again, a
> proviso for insurance purposes. Don?t risk it, Dave.

If he couldn't install a new consumer unit, not actually a qualified
electrician, I'd say. Just some handyman who could fix simple electrical
problems.

BTW, I rewired this house myself on buying it. And changed the CU many
years down the line to the latest specs (at that time).  

However, I'd emphasise again. I'd not advise anyone to do anything DIY
unless competent to do so.

But don't rely on rules and regs and so called professionals being the
only safe way forward. The number of blocks of flats cladded in dangerous
materials being an obvious example.

-- 
*I don't have a solution, but I admire your problem. *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 13 15:24:12 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 21:24:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Windiows 7 online banking
Message-ID: <2ef40a5d-215b-cc02-f895-7e71c6acd604@gmail.com>

It seems likely that those here still running Windows 7 are probably not 
doing any banking online, but just in case -

https://ibsintelligence.com/ibs-journal/ibs-news/uk-govt-warns-not-to-access-online-banking-on-windows-7/

B
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200113/6e35b7bc/attachment.html>

From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 14 05:54:19 2020
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 11:54:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?
Message-ID: <b35a6d2e-5b99-fdd5-9df4-eb13e18ec26b@gmail.com>

Hi all,

If you forgot to switch OFF Orbit on transmission, you got a bollocking.

If you forgot to switch ON Orbit in rehearsal, you could sometimes get 
an image stuck on the tube.

How did we get rid of the stick?? Some distant memory says you pointed 
the tube at a bright light (which was death for the Vidicon tubes of 
course!).

Any advice or help gratefully received!

-- 
Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502




From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Jan 14 05:56:14 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 11:56:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?
In-Reply-To: <b35a6d2e-5b99-fdd5-9df4-eb13e18ec26b@gmail.com>
References: <b35a6d2e-5b99-fdd5-9df4-eb13e18ec26b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C5A81CB7-5D84-4978-A607-8D8B51BB6B7C@icloud.com>

As you say, pont it at a bright evenly lit object, such as a soft light.
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 14 Jan 2020, at 11:54, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> If you forgot to switch OFF Orbit on transmission, you got a bollocking.
> 
> If you forgot to switch ON Orbit in rehearsal, you could sometimes get an image stuck on the tube.
> 
> How did we get rid of the stick?  Some distant memory says you pointed the tube at a bright light (which was death for the Vidicon tubes of course!).
> 
> Any advice or help gratefully received!
> 
> -- 
> Best Regards
> 
> Alec
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 14 06:00:48 2020
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 12:00:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?
In-Reply-To: <C5A81CB7-5D84-4978-A607-8D8B51BB6B7C@icloud.com>
References: <b35a6d2e-5b99-fdd5-9df4-eb13e18ec26b@gmail.com>
	<C5A81CB7-5D84-4978-A607-8D8B51BB6B7C@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <57f4ce9d-0e64-66fb-a78a-593883c74093@gmail.com>

Hi Graeme

THANK YOU - and my goodness, that was a quick reply!!

It's in connection with my talk to the RSME in a week or so's time!

-- 
Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502



From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Tue Jan 14 06:05:20 2020
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 12:05:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?
In-Reply-To: <C5A81CB7-5D84-4978-A607-8D8B51BB6B7C@icloud.com>
References: <C5A81CB7-5D84-4978-A607-8D8B51BB6B7C@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <135E0A49-7406-4E84-A878-6D35F3187C5D@zero51.force9.co.uk>

I had forgotten that bit, but it?s true, and white on black captions were the main danger and a good burn off did help the immediate problem . I don?t know what it did for subsequent picture quality until the tube recovered though! 

Peter Fox

> On 14 Jan 2020, at 11:56, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?As you say, pont it at a bright evenly lit object, such as a soft light.
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
>> On 14 Jan 2020, at 11:54, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> If you forgot to switch OFF Orbit on transmission, you got a bollocking.
>> 
>> If you forgot to switch ON Orbit in rehearsal, you could sometimes get an image stuck on the tube.
>> 
>> How did we get rid of the stick?  Some distant memory says you pointed the tube at a bright light (which was death for the Vidicon tubes of course!).
>> 
>> Any advice or help gratefully received!
>> 
>> -- 
>> Best Regards
>> 
>> Alec
>> 
>> Alec Bray
>> 
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> mob:    07789 561 346
>> home:   0118 981 7502
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Tue Jan 14 06:27:07 2020
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 12:27:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?
In-Reply-To: <b35a6d2e-5b99-fdd5-9df4-eb13e18ec26b@gmail.com>
References: <b35a6d2e-5b99-fdd5-9df4-eb13e18ec26b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A49499B2-3F31-4E38-AAAE-4CAB89E17EEF@btinternet.com>

Hi All,
	Herewith the solution!
Barry.




On 14 Jan 2020, at 11:54, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> If you forgot to switch OFF Orbit on transmission, you got a bollocking.
> 
> If you forgot to switch ON Orbit in rehearsal, you could sometimes get an image stuck on the tube.
> 
> How did we get rid of the stick?  Some distant memory says you pointed the tube at a bright light (which was death for the Vidicon tubes of course!).
> 
> Any advice or help gratefully received!
> 
> -- 
> Best Regards
> 
> Alec
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200114/79966b40/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Orbit.jpg
Type: image/jpg
Size: 9147 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200114/79966b40/attachment.jpg>

From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Tue Jan 14 06:34:50 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 12:34:50 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?
In-Reply-To: <A49499B2-3F31-4E38-AAAE-4CAB89E17EEF@btinternet.com>
References: <b35a6d2e-5b99-fdd5-9df4-eb13e18ec26b@gmail.com>
	<A49499B2-3F31-4E38-AAAE-4CAB89E17EEF@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <410DE2F17632488DB3CE6C2754928461@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Nice one Barry!

Dave Newbitt.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Barry Bonner via Tech1 
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 12:27 PM
To: Alec Bray 
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?

Hi All, 
Herewith the solution!

Barry.





On 14 Jan 2020, at 11:54, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


  Hi all,

  If you forgot to switch OFF Orbit on transmission, you got a bollocking.

  If you forgot to switch ON Orbit in rehearsal, you could sometimes get an image stuck on the tube.

  How did we get rid of the stick?  Some distant memory says you pointed the tube at a bright light (which was death for the Vidicon tubes of course!).

  Any advice or help gratefully received!

  -- 
  Best Regards

  Alec

  Alec Bray

  alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
  mob:    07789 561 346
  home:   0118 981 7502



  -- 
  Tech1 mailing list
  Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
  http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200114/b3f5230c/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Orbit.jpg
Type: image/jpg
Size: 9147 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200114/b3f5230c/attachment.jpg>

From waresound at msn.com  Tue Jan 14 09:09:46 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 15:09:46 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?
In-Reply-To: <57f4ce9d-0e64-66fb-a78a-593883c74093@gmail.com>
References: <b35a6d2e-5b99-fdd5-9df4-eb13e18ec26b@gmail.com>
	<C5A81CB7-5D84-4978-A607-8D8B51BB6B7C@icloud.com>,
	<57f4ce9d-0e64-66fb-a78a-593883c74093@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271EAEA5229C58D287B7734A7340@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

If it?s any use to you to pass around the class as an example of how twee camera tubes got before CCD?s arrived, I have a 1/2inch Vidicon that you can have. Actually, it?s a Saticon, but looks the same as a Vidicon. Text me your address to 07802 246088 if you?d like me to pop it in the post. F.O.C. for such a good cause, naturally.
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 14 Jan 2020, at 12:01, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi Graeme
> 
> THANK YOU - and my goodness, that was a quick reply!!
> 
> It's in connection with my talk to the RSME in a week or so's time!
> 
> -- 
> Best Regards
> 
> Alec
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Tue Jan 14 09:13:52 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 15:13:52 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Windiows 7 online banking
In-Reply-To: <2ef40a5d-215b-cc02-f895-7e71c6acd604@gmail.com>
References: <2ef40a5d-215b-cc02-f895-7e71c6acd604@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <583242d705dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <2ef40a5d-215b-cc02-f895-7e71c6acd604 at gmail.com>,
   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> It seems likely that those here still running Windows 7 are probably not 
> doing any banking online, but just in case -

> https://ibsintelligence.com/ibs-journal/ibs-news/uk-govt-warns-not-to-access-online-banking-on-windows-7/

Well, I'm still using Win7. But not a MS browser. And have non MS
protection too.

When I see this sort of thing from a government agency, makes you wonder
how large chunks of the NHS get away with still running XP?

-- 
*Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From waresound at msn.com  Tue Jan 14 09:40:40 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 15:40:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Windiows 7 online banking
In-Reply-To: <583242d705dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <2ef40a5d-215b-cc02-f895-7e71c6acd604@gmail.com>,
	<583242d705dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB027124ED3BB72F1DCD1036B9A7340@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

My wife?s nice new NHS laptop is Win10. I imagine upgrading thousands of computers has to be a gradual process, and not at the top of their priorities list. Even her older one needed a unique USB key stick in order to boot up and log into the system. 

NatWest Customers will have been notified today that they are lowering the interest rate on savings accounts. I heard at a corporate event recently (a major bank), that the aim is to introduce negative interest in the near future! (I.e., charge you a fee for ?looking after? your money). Good, innit?
Cheers,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 14 Jan 2020, at 15:14, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?In article <2ef40a5d-215b-cc02-f895-7e71c6acd604 at gmail.com>,
>   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> It seems likely that those here still running Windows 7 are probably not 
>> doing any banking online, but just in case -
> 
>> https://ibsintelligence.com/ibs-journal/ibs-news/uk-govt-warns-not-to-access-online-banking-on-windows-7/
> 
> Well, I'm still using Win7. But not a MS browser. And have non MS
> protection too.
> 
> When I see this sort of thing from a government agency, makes you wonder
> how large chunks of the NHS get away with still running XP?
> 
> -- 
> *Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm *
> 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Jan 14 10:12:05 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 16:12:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Windiows 7 online banking
In-Reply-To: <583242d705dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <2ef40a5d-215b-cc02-f895-7e71c6acd604@gmail.com>
	<583242d705dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <72740AA1-81B4-4C4C-B36A-6DC50A41C8DC@icloud.com>

MS ran an extended update programme for professional users of XP (at a price) They will do the same with W7

? 
Graeme Wall


> On 14 Jan 2020, at 15:13, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> In article <2ef40a5d-215b-cc02-f895-7e71c6acd604 at gmail.com>,
>   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> It seems likely that those here still running Windows 7 are probably not 
>> doing any banking online, but just in case -
> 
>> https://ibsintelligence.com/ibs-journal/ibs-news/uk-govt-warns-not-to-access-online-banking-on-windows-7/
> 
> Well, I'm still using Win7. But not a MS browser. And have non MS
> protection too.
> 
> When I see this sort of thing from a government agency, makes you wonder
> how large chunks of the NHS get away with still running XP?
> 
> -- 
> *Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm *
> 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Tue Jan 14 10:57:54 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 16:57:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?
In-Reply-To: <135E0A49-7406-4E84-A878-6D35F3187C5D@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <C5A81CB7-5D84-4978-A607-8D8B51BB6B7C@icloud.com>
	<135E0A49-7406-4E84-A878-6D35F3187C5D@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <e2880356-62f1-d756-6b3a-7ec1a5f37561@chriswoolf.co.uk>

And as tubes got older they became more prone to "stick".

On one occasion in Riverside I was lined up on the Playschool windows 
with Cam4 and a very tired tube. By the time I came to zoom through the 
window I had a job telling which was window and which was "stick".

Chris Woolf

On 14/01/2020 12:05, Peter Fox via Tech1 wrote:
> I had forgotten that bit, but it?s true, and white on black captions were the main danger and a good burn off did help the immediate problem . I don?t know what it did for subsequent picture quality until the tube recovered though!
>
> Peter Fox
>
>> On 14 Jan 2020, at 11:56, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?As you say, pont it at a bright evenly lit object, such as a soft light.
>> ?
>> Graeme Wall
>>
>>
>>> On 14 Jan 2020, at 11:54, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> If you forgot to switch OFF Orbit on transmission, you got a bollocking.
>>>
>>> If you forgot to switch ON Orbit in rehearsal, you could sometimes get an image stuck on the tube.
>>>
>>> How did we get rid of the stick?  Some distant memory says you pointed the tube at a bright light (which was death for the Vidicon tubes of course!).
>>>
>>> Any advice or help gratefully received!
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>> Alec
>>>
>>> Alec Bray
>>>
>>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>>> mob:    07789 561 346
>>> home:   0118 981 7502
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>


From brian at mcr21.org.uk  Tue Jan 14 11:32:07 2020
From: brian at mcr21.org.uk (Brian Summers)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:32:07 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?
In-Reply-To: <e2880356-62f1-d756-6b3a-7ec1a5f37561@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <C5A81CB7-5D84-4978-A607-8D8B51BB6B7C@icloud.com>	<135E0A49-7406-4E84-A878-6D35F3187C5D@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<e2880356-62f1-d756-6b3a-7ec1a5f37561@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <008901d5cb00$8bc1cc70$a3456550$@mcr21.org.uk>

The later tubes had an "Elcon" target material, much improved and very resistant to sticking.   

I have a number of I.O. cameras, some of which still work. As for the older sticky tubes, some years ago you could get an improvement by putting them in the deep freeze for a while.  I have no direct experience of this, but perhaps 30 years ago I left a tube in the garage over a cold winter and it was much improved in the spring. 

Brian Summers 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 [mailto:] On Behalf Of Chris Woolf via Tech1
Sent: 14 January 2020 16:58
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?

And as tubes got older they became more prone to "stick".

On one occasion in Riverside I was lined up on the Playschool windows with Cam4 and a very tired tube. By the time I came to zoom through the window I had a job telling which was window and which was "stick".

Chris Woolf

On 14/01/2020 12:05, Peter Fox via Tech1 wrote:
> I had forgotten that bit, but it?s true, and white on black captions were the main danger and a good burn off did help the immediate problem . I don?t know what it did for subsequent picture quality until the tube recovered though!
>
> Peter Fox
>
>> On 14 Jan 2020, at 11:56, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?As you say, pont it at a bright evenly lit object, such as a soft light.
>> ?
>> Graeme Wall
>>
>>
>>> On 14 Jan 2020, at 11:54, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> If you forgot to switch OFF Orbit on transmission, you got a bollocking.
>>>
>>> If you forgot to switch ON Orbit in rehearsal, you could sometimes get an image stuck on the tube.
>>>
>>> How did we get rid of the stick?  Some distant memory says you pointed the tube at a bright light (which was death for the Vidicon tubes of course!).
>>>
>>> Any advice or help gratefully received!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards
>>>
>>> Alec
>>>
>>> Alec Bray
>>>
>>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>>> mob:    07789 561 346
>>> home:   0118 981 7502
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Tue Jan 14 11:35:48 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:35:48 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?
In-Reply-To: <135E0A49-7406-4E84-A878-6D35F3187C5D@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <C5A81CB7-5D84-4978-A607-8D8B51BB6B7C@icloud.com>
	<135E0A49-7406-4E84-A878-6D35F3187C5D@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1074529950.19044625.1579023348389@mail.yahoo.com>

 Yes, it was the 'Hair of the Dog' principle. A bright light caused the problem, so another bright light was used to cure it. But the second time around, try and fill the frame with brightness, i.e. point at light, defocus and move it about a bit.
I remember working on an early 'Crimewatch', or its predecessor, when still up in Pres. Counting down to transmission, Sue Cook was looking in her mirror, doing a last minute make-up check, and thinks it will be fun to flash her mirror at the lens, leaving an indelible black mark, centre frame! ?On air any second, and desperately pointing at a lamp trying to burn off the burn!
Generally, lamps caught in shot, or other highlights, would be surrounded by a black halo. Something to do with where the electrons landed after being bounced off the tube by the bright bit. (I used to understand these things - he lied!)?
luv, Rog.

    On Tuesday, 14 January 2020, 12:05:48 GMT, Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:  
 
 I had forgotten that bit, but it?s true, and white on black captions were the main danger and a good burn off did help the immediate problem . I don?t know what it did for subsequent picture quality until the tube recovered though! 

Peter Fox

> On 14 Jan 2020, at 11:56, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?As you say, pont it at a bright evenly lit object, such as a soft light.
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
>> On 14 Jan 2020, at 11:54, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> If you forgot to switch OFF Orbit on transmission, you got a bollocking.
>> 
>> If you forgot to switch ON Orbit in rehearsal, you could sometimes get an image stuck on the tube.
>> 
>> How did we get rid of the stick?? Some distant memory says you pointed the tube at a bright light (which was death for the Vidicon tubes of course!).
>> 
>> Any advice or help gratefully received!
>> 
>> -- 
>> Best Regards
>> 
>> Alec
>> 
>> Alec Bray
>> 
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> mob:? ? 07789 561 346
>> home:? 0118 981 7502
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200114/2b3776ca/attachment.html>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Jan 14 13:29:53 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 19:29:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Christine Keeler was Image Orthicon tubes
In-Reply-To: <1074529950.19044625.1579023348389@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <C5A81CB7-5D84-4978-A607-8D8B51BB6B7C@icloud.com>
	<135E0A49-7406-4E84-A878-6D35F3187C5D@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<1074529950.19044625.1579023348389@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5e1e16af.1c69fb81.fb708.4f63@mx.google.com>

Much enjoying the Christine Keeler drama (BBC 1 Sundays)
Nicely shot with no wobblyscope and the audio is good, too.
Last weeks, (12/01) had a TV interview set and I was pleased to see that the cameras were the EMI green ones.
Think they were indeed correct?
Not too certain that the mic in the boom was a C28, then maybe we used only the 4033.
Any better memories than mine?
Pat



Sent from Mail for Windows 10


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200114/9fda20a8/attachment.html>

From mibridge at mac.com  Tue Jan 14 13:46:50 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 19:46:50 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Mastermind was Christine Keeler was Image Orthicon tubes
In-Reply-To: <5e1e16af.1c69fb81.fb708.4f63@mx.google.com>
References: <C5A81CB7-5D84-4978-A607-8D8B51BB6B7C@icloud.com>
	<135E0A49-7406-4E84-A878-6D35F3187C5D@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<1074529950.19044625.1579023348389@mail.yahoo.com>
	<5e1e16af.1c69fb81.fb708.4f63@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <9292C755-8F4C-4914-B5FB-F0614C6898D9@mac.com>

Does it annoy anyone else that the VR2 (or modern equivalent) which is presumably just there as a standby, rarely seems to be pointing at the participant?s mouth? Perhaps it?s only set dressing and isn?t placed by a Sound Assistant.


Mike G


> On 14 Jan 2020, at 19:29, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Much enjoying the Christine Keeler drama (BBC 1 Sundays)
> Nicely shot with no wobblyscope and the audio is good, too.
> Last weeks, (12/01) had a TV interview set and I was pleased to see that the cameras were the EMI green ones.
> Think they were indeed correct?
> Not too certain that the mic in the boom was a C28, then maybe we used only the 4033.
> Any better memories than mine?
> Pat
>  
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200114/ca806402/attachment.html>

From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Jan 14 13:48:55 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 19:48:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Christine Keeler was Image Orthicon tubes
In-Reply-To: <5e1e16af.1c69fb81.fb708.4f63@mx.google.com>
References: <C5A81CB7-5D84-4978-A607-8D8B51BB6B7C@icloud.com>
	<135E0A49-7406-4E84-A878-6D35F3187C5D@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<1074529950.19044625.1579023348389@mail.yahoo.com>
	<5e1e16af.1c69fb81.fb708.4f63@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5CC4B03E-79BB-4482-85A1-93B1D6D07C26@icloud.com>


? 
Graeme Wall


> On 14 Jan 2020, at 19:29, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Much enjoying the Christine Keeler drama (BBC 1 Sundays)
> Nicely shot with no wobblyscope and the audio is good, too.
> Last weeks, (12/01) had a TV interview set and I was pleased to see that the cameras were the EMI green ones.
> Think they were indeed correct?

Introduced 1960 onwards so correct for the period.

> Not too certain that the mic in the boom was a C28, then maybe we used only the 4033.
> Any better memories than mine?
> Pat
>  
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From teateatone2 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 14 14:08:22 2020
From: teateatone2 at gmail.com (Tony Grant)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 20:08:22 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?
In-Reply-To: <b35a6d2e-5b99-fdd5-9df4-eb13e18ec26b@gmail.com>
References: <b35a6d2e-5b99-fdd5-9df4-eb13e18ec26b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEMv0RNQvF9fSyAQUom68KmZCOiMuV0aj5C35mRoWPaa-GB6WA@mail.gmail.com>

Surely you were always told to pan back and forth, defocussed, on a 10
light, come on, get those ration books out!

TeaTeaFN - Tony

On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 11:54 AM Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> If you forgot to switch OFF Orbit on transmission, you got a bollocking.
>
> If you forgot to switch ON Orbit in rehearsal, you could sometimes get
> an image stuck on the tube.
>
> How did we get rid of the stick?  Some distant memory says you pointed
> the tube at a bright light (which was death for the Vidicon tubes of
> course!).
>
> Any advice or help gratefully received!
>
> --
> Best Regards
>
> Alec
>
> Alec Bray
>
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502
>
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200114/c6906dab/attachment.html>

From teateatone2 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 14 14:17:00 2020
From: teateatone2 at gmail.com (Tony Grant)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 20:17:00 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Candle power
Message-ID: <CAEMv0RO2Na_EWGxRf_8NBNzJdy17ip-abjFxPpFsvnPxaXBQPw@mail.gmail.com>

Having just had a power cut, talk ranged around our use of candles and
torches. The 'heated' but not entirely 'illuminating' theme was, in this
day and age, taking into account manufacturing techniques as well as
running costs, what is the most environmentally and ecologically friendly
method to use (per lumen!), candles, rechargeable torches, or unre-usable
batteries?

OK, we haven't got camping gas or oil filled lamps, but you can throw them
into the discussion as well.

TeaTeaFN - Tony
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200114/2b5a6d66/attachment.html>

From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 14 14:47:50 2020
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 20:47:50 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] The Trial of Christine Keeler
Message-ID: <00ba01d5cb1b$e2921e40$a7b65ac0$@gmail.com>

I saw that and thought the camera number on the side wasn?t as I remember it. The cables they were handling in the de-rig looked too thin and flexible to have been camera cables and they weren?t monitor cables either, but these details would only have been noticed by people like us.

I?m enjoying the series too. It has an excellent cast and the direction with absence of wobbly cam is good but think it would have been better to have condensed it a bit as it?s slow and repetitive in places. I thought the film Scandal told the story at better length and I find myself waiting for the courtroom scene with memorable line from Mandy Rice-Davis, ?Well, he would, wouldn?t he??

 

Geoff

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of patheigham via Tech1
Sent: 14 January 2020 19:30
To: ROGER BUNCE <rogerbunce at btinternet.com>; Tech ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Christine Keeler was Image Orthicon tubes

 

Much enjoying the Christine Keeler drama (BBC 1 Sundays)

Nicely shot with no wobblyscope and the audio is good, too.

Last weeks, (12/01) had a TV interview set and I was pleased to see that the cameras were the EMI green ones.

Think they were indeed correct?

Not too certain that the mic in the boom was a C28, then maybe we used only the 4033.

Any better memories than mine?

Pat

 

 

 

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200114/6aa6ece5/attachment.html>

From geoffletch at gmail.com  Tue Jan 14 14:52:51 2020
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 20:52:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?
In-Reply-To: <CAEMv0RNQvF9fSyAQUom68KmZCOiMuV0aj5C35mRoWPaa-GB6WA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b35a6d2e-5b99-fdd5-9df4-eb13e18ec26b@gmail.com>
	<CAEMv0RNQvF9fSyAQUom68KmZCOiMuV0aj5C35mRoWPaa-GB6WA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB-a9sDriz=W29dOo5bPXAA0Z_u9TjTJ5W37CPSuO=fyBA@mail.gmail.com>

If there was something good from another studio on the mixed feed we used
to pan off to the cyc so we could see it properly - e g The Year Of The Sex
Olympics, Nana, Lysistrata etc. Well, we were all red blooded young chaps
then!
Geoff F

On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 at 20:09, Tony Grant via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Surely you were always told to pan back and forth, defocussed, on a 10
> light, come on, get those ration books out!
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 11:54 AM Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> If you forgot to switch OFF Orbit on transmission, you got a bollocking.
>>
>> If you forgot to switch ON Orbit in rehearsal, you could sometimes get
>> an image stuck on the tube.
>>
>> How did we get rid of the stick?  Some distant memory says you pointed
>> the tube at a bright light (which was death for the Vidicon tubes of
>> course!).
>>
>> Any advice or help gratefully received!
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards
>>
>> Alec
>>
>> Alec Bray
>>
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> mob:    07789 561 346
>> home:   0118 981 7502
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200114/67148635/attachment.html>

From geoffletch at gmail.com  Tue Jan 14 14:54:27 2020
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 20:54:27 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Candle power
In-Reply-To: <CAEMv0RO2Na_EWGxRf_8NBNzJdy17ip-abjFxPpFsvnPxaXBQPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEMv0RO2Na_EWGxRf_8NBNzJdy17ip-abjFxPpFsvnPxaXBQPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB-OTrVZzxq3PoYrrgUtVR75zimtq20oeWAZv-p6iYcQDA@mail.gmail.com>

Alladin lamps or Tilly lights!
Geoff F

On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 at 20:17, Tony Grant via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Having just had a power cut, talk ranged around our use of candles and
> torches. The 'heated' but not entirely 'illuminating' theme was, in this
> day and age, taking into account manufacturing techniques as well as
> running costs, what is the most environmentally and ecologically friendly
> method to use (per lumen!), candles, rechargeable torches, or unre-usable
> batteries?
>
> OK, we haven't got camping gas or oil filled lamps, but you can throw them
> into the discussion as well.
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200114/e38096ee/attachment.html>

From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Tue Jan 14 15:15:14 2020
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2020 21:15:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Image Orthicon tubes - remember them?
In-Reply-To: <1074529950.19044625.1579023348389@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <C5A81CB7-5D84-4978-A607-8D8B51BB6B7C@icloud.com>
	<135E0A49-7406-4E84-A878-6D35F3187C5D@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<1074529950.19044625.1579023348389@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a7a377f3-1352-39b5-ced8-5a6daddc43c0@zero51.force9.co.uk>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200114/35e5c8bb/attachment.html>

From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Wed Jan 15 03:22:27 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 09:22:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Candle power
In-Reply-To: <CAEMv0RO2Na_EWGxRf_8NBNzJdy17ip-abjFxPpFsvnPxaXBQPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEMv0RO2Na_EWGxRf_8NBNzJdy17ip-abjFxPpFsvnPxaXBQPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21987016.19537869.1579080147598@mail.yahoo.com>

 Hand-wound clockwork torch?
luv, Rog.

    On Tuesday, 14 January 2020, 20:17:38 GMT, Tony Grant via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:  
 
 Having just had a power cut, talk ranged around our use of candles and torches. The 'heated' but not entirely 'illuminating' theme was, in this day and age, taking into account manufacturing techniques as well as running costs, what is the most environmentally and ecologically friendly method to use (per lumen!), candles, rechargeable torches, or unre-usable batteries?
OK, we haven't got camping gas or oil filled lamps, but you can throw them into the discussion as well.
TeaTeaFN - Tony-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200115/44a380f2/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Wed Jan 15 04:58:43 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 10:58:43 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Candle power
In-Reply-To: <CAEMv0RO2Na_EWGxRf_8NBNzJdy17ip-abjFxPpFsvnPxaXBQPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEMv0RO2Na_EWGxRf_8NBNzJdy17ip-abjFxPpFsvnPxaXBQPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5832af50f9dave@davesound.co.uk>

Li-ion batteries are a big advance over older rechargeables. Smaller size,
much longer service life and so on. But generally on things like torches,
built in. So you can't easily just put fresh ones in when they are used
up, like you can do with AA etc cells, either alkaline or rechargeable.
Although it may be possible to buy torches that use a Li-ion 18650 which
is similar in shape to an AA cell but bigger. And easy to get and good
value, being used in some vaping devices.  

The other possibility would be a lamp which used the same batteries as
your electric drill and so on. But an expensive way for occasional use.

So basically candles. Low investment cost, easy to store, and always work
when you want them.   


In article
<CAEMv0RO2Na_EWGxRf_8NBNzJdy17ip-abjFxPpFsvnPxaXBQPw at mail.gmail.com>,
   Tony Grant via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Having just had a power cut, talk ranged around our use of candles and
> torches. The 'heated' but not entirely 'illuminating' theme was, in this
> day and age, taking into account manufacturing techniques as well as
> running costs, what is the most environmentally and ecologically friendly
> method to use (per lumen!), candles, rechargeable torches, or unre-usable
> batteries?

> OK, we haven't got camping gas or oil filled lamps, but you can throw them
> into the discussion as well.

> TeaTeaFN - Tony

-- 
*I want it all and I want it delivered

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From bernie833 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 15 05:12:45 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 11:12:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Candle power
In-Reply-To: <5832af50f9dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <CAEMv0RO2Na_EWGxRf_8NBNzJdy17ip-abjFxPpFsvnPxaXBQPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5832af50f9dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <91975cc2-c4c8-dd84-ddf5-0fd8e759404f@gmail.com>

I suppose, as I keep bees, I could make my own candles with wax and 
string.?? That would be terribly ecological.? As it is, my wife made me 
buy a standby generator a few years ago. It isn't very powerful, but it 
would keep a few LEDs running, on petrol.

The only time we've actually used it was last summer on a hot day. The 
power failed so I found some extensions and plugged in fridge and 
freezer.? By the time I'd done that and got the thing running, the power 
came back on.

B



On 15/01/2020 10:58, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> Li-ion batteries are a big advance over older rechargeables. Smaller size,
> much longer service life and so on. But generally on things like torches,
> built in. So you can't easily just put fresh ones in when they are used
> up, like you can do with AA etc cells, either alkaline or rechargeable.
> Although it may be possible to buy torches that use a Li-ion 18650 which
> is similar in shape to an AA cell but bigger. And easy to get and good
> value, being used in some vaping devices.
>
> The other possibility would be a lamp which used the same batteries as
> your electric drill and so on. But an expensive way for occasional use.
>
> So basically candles. Low investment cost, easy to store, and always work
> when you want them.
>
>
> In article
> <CAEMv0RO2Na_EWGxRf_8NBNzJdy17ip-abjFxPpFsvnPxaXBQPw at mail.gmail.com>,
>     Tony Grant via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Having just had a power cut, talk ranged around our use of candles and
>> torches. The 'heated' but not entirely 'illuminating' theme was, in this
>> day and age, taking into account manufacturing techniques as well as
>> running costs, what is the most environmentally and ecologically friendly
>> method to use (per lumen!), candles, rechargeable torches, or unre-usable
>> batteries?
>> OK, we haven't got camping gas or oil filled lamps, but you can throw them
>> into the discussion as well.
>> TeaTeaFN - Tony

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200115/7ced7837/attachment.html>

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Wed Jan 15 05:56:18 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 11:56:18 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Candle power
In-Reply-To: <91975cc2-c4c8-dd84-ddf5-0fd8e759404f@gmail.com>
References: <CAEMv0RO2Na_EWGxRf_8NBNzJdy17ip-abjFxPpFsvnPxaXBQPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5832af50f9dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<91975cc2-c4c8-dd84-ddf5-0fd8e759404f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e12ad919-5126-949f-d46f-799b09158550@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 15/01/2020 11:12, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
> I suppose, as I keep bees, I could make my own candles with wax and 
> string. ..
>
Wicks should be plaited - that way they lie over in a curl and are 
self-trimming. It took several centuries to get the technology right;}

Chris Woolf

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200115/7641ad9f/attachment.html>

From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Wed Jan 15 09:45:11 2020
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 15:45:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Candle power
In-Reply-To: <CAEMv0RO2Na_EWGxRf_8NBNzJdy17ip-abjFxPpFsvnPxaXBQPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEMv0RO2Na_EWGxRf_8NBNzJdy17ip-abjFxPpFsvnPxaXBQPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <264855D2-72E3-4645-B2DB-7ACF267F5CA1@btinternet.com>

Hi Tony,
	When I first moved to here in Ruislip there were frequent power cuts. During one of these cuts a near neighbour hammered on my door demanding where I was getting my power from. I told him I?ve lit my living room with a paraffin pressure lamp. He didn?t believe me until I showed him the lamp, it?s so bright you can?t look directly at it, at 500 candlepowers it produces 6285 lumens! I originally bought it for night fishing off Dungeness beach.
It has a built in blow lamp to heat the fuel to the mantle so you don?t need meths. Not sure about the environmental problems as the mantle contains thorium which is radio active! It?ll last about 12 hours on one litre.
Barry.

			


On 14 Jan 2020, at 20:17, Tony Grant via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Having just had a power cut, talk ranged around our use of candles and torches. The 'heated' but not entirely 'illuminating' theme was, in this day and age, taking into account manufacturing techniques as well as running costs, what is the most environmentally and ecologically friendly method to use (per lumen!), candles, rechargeable torches, or unre-usable batteries?
> 
> OK, we haven't got camping gas or oil filled lamps, but you can throw them into the discussion as well.
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200115/452fc20a/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Primus.JPG
Type: image/jpg
Size: 5648896 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200115/452fc20a/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200115/452fc20a/attachment-0001.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 15 11:37:47 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 17:37:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW: RTS Journals
In-Reply-To: <mailman.458.1579105913.905994.tech1_tech-ops.co.uk@tech-ops.co.uk>
References: <mailman.458.1579105913.905994.tech1_tech-ops.co.uk@tech-ops.co.uk>
Message-ID: <a871c4ab-bb20-7494-a6d7-227c6725d685@gmail.com>



To:
<Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
From:
"Brian Summers" <Brian at summershome.co.uk>
Date:
15/01/2020, 16:31

Hello all

If you have any of these spare and wish to find them a good home ?the 
library of the television camera museum is looking to fill the gaps in 
the collection.

We are seeking early issues before about 1980. If you have any spares 
here is the wanted ?list
Most of the missing ones are in the 1950s and 1970s.

Want

Vol. 1 Any
Vol. 2 Any
Vol. 3 Any
Vol. 4 Any
Vol. 5 Any
Vol. 6 1,2,5,6,7,8,10,11x,12
Vol. 7 2,3,7,8,9,
Vol. 8 2,4,9
Vol. 9 1,2,6,7,8
Vol. 10 None complete
Vol. 11 None complete
Vol. 12 None complete
Vol. 13 11
Vol. 14 1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9,11,12
Vol. 15 2,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12
Vol. 16 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12
Vol. 17 1,3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11,12
Vol. 18 1,2,3,
Vol. 19 None complete
Vol. 20 6
Vol. 21 1,2,
Vol. 22 5,6,


We do have some duplicates issues to offer in exchange with other 
collectors.

Please get in touch either here or directly.

Brian Summers
Virtual Museum of the Broadcast TV Camera
Camberley,
England.

www.tvcameramuseum.org <http://www.tvcameramuseum.org/>
brian at tvcameramuseum.org <mailto:brian at tvcameramuseum.org>
Phone (+44) 01276677879
Subject:
Royal Television Society Journals
From:
"Brian Summers" <Brian at summershome.co.uk>
Date:
15/01/2020, 16:31

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200115/781ec209/attachment.html>

From john at epi-centre.com  Wed Jan 15 17:39:52 2020
From: john at epi-centre.com (John Henshall)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 23:39:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Leave abbreviations
Message-ID: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>

There was BISQUE - casual day off (2 per year), DOIL - Day Off In Lieu.

But we invented SDOILOOM - or was it ?SDOILOLOM?? - Sick Day Off In Lieu Of Lost Overtime Money?

Anyone remember?

Best wishes to all
John Henshall
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200115/555955cb/attachment.html>

From geoffletch at gmail.com  Wed Jan 15 17:42:49 2020
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 23:42:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Leave abbreviations
In-Reply-To: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
References: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB-K2TVBLr-zphYR=ruRw2ZX6Heih59DfGqK_XvGRVpo4w@mail.gmail.com>

New one on me John. After my time maybe - post 1970?
Geoff F

On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 at 23:40, John Henshall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> There was BISQUE - casual day off (2 per year), DOIL - Day Off In Lieu.
>
> But we invented SDOILOOM - or was it ?SDOILOLOM?? - Sick Day Off In Lieu
> Of Lost Overtime Money?
>
> Anyone remember?
>
> Best wishes to all
> John Henshall
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200115/261c9c7f/attachment.html>

From billjenkin67 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 16 01:36:58 2020
From: billjenkin67 at gmail.com (Bill Jenkin)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 07:36:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Leave abbreviations
In-Reply-To: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
References: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6tP4DH8ECXJK+7wUmdUFN7eAy4S-=1U1gSg+uD3x6XZ3r1uQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes John, I remember it as SDOILOOM.
Not that I ever took any myself of course ;-)
Bill J

On Wed, 15 Jan 2020, 23:40 John Henshall via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> There was BISQUE - casual day off (2 per year), DOIL - Day Off In Lieu.
>
> But we invented SDOILOOM - or was it ?SDOILOLOM?? - Sick Day Off In Lieu
> Of Lost Overtime Money?
>
> Anyone remember?
>
> Best wishes to all
> John Henshall
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/952998c0/attachment.html>

From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Jan 16 02:37:02 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 08:37:02 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Leave abbreviations
In-Reply-To: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
References: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
Message-ID: <8630780A-9B5B-4E08-8AE7-C962A097DB26@me.com>

I don't think that Bisque is an abbreviation or acronym  The term Bisque is used in croquet, tennis or golf to denote a free turn or point to taken to give a one off advantage to that player.  

I always liked to believe that the BBC Bisque was adopted from a free turn in croquet as that seems so utterly BBC.  I feel fairly confident that there was no connection between a BBC day of leave and lobster soup.

Alan Taylor




On 15 Jan 2020, at 15 Jan . 23:39, John Henshall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> There was BISQUE - casual day off (2 per year), DOIL - Day Off In Lieu.
> 
> But we invented SDOILOOM - or was it ?SDOILOLOM?? - Sick Day Off In Lieu Of Lost Overtime Money?
> 
> Anyone remember?
> 
> Best wishes to all
> John Henshall
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/0f6d44f3/attachment.html>

From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Thu Jan 16 03:01:53 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 09:01:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Leave abbreviations
In-Reply-To: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
References: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
Message-ID: <1557423589.20561193.1579165313947@mail.yahoo.com>

 I thought it was DOSILO (pronounced 'Dozziloo') - 'Day Off Sick in Lieu of Overtime'. That was when they were cancelling overtime leave, after a certain period, even if there had been no opportunity to take it.
Someone once applied for a YOIL, and it was passed. The start and finish dates looked the same, but the office failing to notice that they were a year apart.
luv, Rog.

    On Wednesday, 15 January 2020, 23:40:22 GMT, John Henshall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:  
 
 There was BISQUE - casual day off (2 per year), DOIL - Day Off In Lieu.
But we invented SDOILOOM - or was it ?SDOILOLOM?? - Sick Day Off In Lieu Of Lost Overtime Money?
Anyone remember?
Best wishes to allJohn Henshall-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/7000f5d4/attachment.html>

From timhealy935 at btinternet.com  Thu Jan 16 03:53:16 2020
From: timhealy935 at btinternet.com (Michael Healy)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 09:53:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Leave abbreviations
In-Reply-To: <1557423589.20561193.1579165313947@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
	<1557423589.20561193.1579165313947@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BBC189B1-5077-48FC-8E08-F623ADD7206C@btinternet.com>

How about a  NICE - ?Non In Coming Early? i.e. don?t come in. Was that just a Rodney thing?

> On 16 Jan 2020, at 09:01, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I thought it was DOSILO (pronounced 'Dozziloo') - 'Day Off Sick in Lieu of Overtime'. That was when they were cancelling overtime leave, after a certain period, even if there had been no opportunity to take it.
> 
> Someone once applied for a YOIL, and it was passed. The start and finish dates looked the same, but the office failing to notice that they were a year apart.
> 
> luv, Rog.
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, 15 January 2020, 23:40:22 GMT, John Henshall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> There was BISQUE - casual day off (2 per year), DOIL - Day Off In Lieu.
> 
> But we invented SDOILOOM - or was it ?SDOILOLOM?? - Sick Day Off In Lieu Of Lost Overtime Money?
> 
> Anyone remember?
> 
> Best wishes to all
> John Henshall
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/a8e40e6d/attachment.html>

From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Thu Jan 16 04:00:33 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:00:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Leave abbreviations
In-Reply-To: <BBC189B1-5077-48FC-8E08-F623ADD7206C@btinternet.com>
References: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
	<1557423589.20561193.1579165313947@mail.yahoo.com>
	<BBC189B1-5077-48FC-8E08-F623ADD7206C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <06458A67-5547-46DE-B58A-AFA6F12D129A@icloud.com>

I remember those, as you say I think it was just a Rodney thing.
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 16 Jan 2020, at 09:53, Michael Healy via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> How about a  NICE - ?Non In Coming Early? i.e. don?t come in. Was that just a Rodney thing?
> 
>> On 16 Jan 2020, at 09:01, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> I thought it was DOSILO (pronounced 'Dozziloo') - 'Day Off Sick in Lieu of Overtime'. That was when they were cancelling overtime leave, after a certain period, even if there had been no opportunity to take it.
>> 
>> Someone once applied for a YOIL, and it was passed. The start and finish dates looked the same, but the office failing to notice that they were a year apart.
>> 
>> luv, Rog.
>> 
>> 
>> On Wednesday, 15 January 2020, 23:40:22 GMT, John Henshall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> There was BISQUE - casual day off (2 per year), DOIL - Day Off In Lieu.
>> 
>> But we invented SDOILOOM - or was it ?SDOILOLOM?? - Sick Day Off In Lieu Of Lost Overtime Money?
>> 
>> Anyone remember?
>> 
>> Best wishes to all
>> John Henshall
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Thu Jan 16 04:03:50 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:03:50 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Leave abbreviations
In-Reply-To: <06458A67-5547-46DE-B58A-AFA6F12D129A@icloud.com>
References: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
	<1557423589.20561193.1579165313947@mail.yahoo.com>
	<BBC189B1-5077-48FC-8E08-F623ADD7206C@btinternet.com>
	<06458A67-5547-46DE-B58A-AFA6F12D129A@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <EE93B664-C2C3-4CF7-8F25-36A13ED25DE2@icloud.com>

In the crew diary, Rod kept a record of who had earlies and when, designated by dots. A one dot early you went home before the recording, a two dot early you went at lunchtime and a three dot early was a NICE. He was scrupulously fair in averaging them out for the whole crew.

? 
Graeme Wall


> On 16 Jan 2020, at 10:00, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I remember those, as you say I think it was just a Rodney thing.
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
>> On 16 Jan 2020, at 09:53, Michael Healy via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> How about a  NICE - ?Non In Coming Early? i.e. don?t come in. Was that just a Rodney thing?
>> 
>>> On 16 Jan 2020, at 09:01, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I thought it was DOSILO (pronounced 'Dozziloo') - 'Day Off Sick in Lieu of Overtime'. That was when they were cancelling overtime leave, after a certain period, even if there had been no opportunity to take it.
>>> 
>>> Someone once applied for a YOIL, and it was passed. The start and finish dates looked the same, but the office failing to notice that they were a year apart.
>>> 
>>> luv, Rog.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wednesday, 15 January 2020, 23:40:22 GMT, John Henshall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There was BISQUE - casual day off (2 per year), DOIL - Day Off In Lieu.
>>> 
>>> But we invented SDOILOOM - or was it ?SDOILOLOM?? - Sick Day Off In Lieu Of Lost Overtime Money?
>>> 
>>> Anyone remember?
>>> 
>>> Best wishes to all
>>> John Henshall
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From teateatone2 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 16 04:30:11 2020
From: teateatone2 at gmail.com (Tony Grant)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:30:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Faceache explained
Message-ID: <CAEMv0RNUW_pc=ypVhL-P73MGbfjffexiXebN41=Y5gM=f=p0nw@mail.gmail.com>

At last I understand it!

TeaTeaFN - Tony
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/680e8110/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: e5ad63aa-f6c8-4480-827d-62a2c21eaa10.png
Type: image/png
Size: 99174 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/680e8110/attachment.png>

From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com  Thu Jan 16 04:33:05 2020
From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:33:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlys
Message-ID: <0D3917C2-5102-4103-9403-667DA607824D@icloud.com>

This thread has reminded me of one of the most amusing instances of my time at TVC whilst I was working on the camera pool.

I had been allocated to crew 5 for a 2 day drama and, as everyone knows, Jim was never one to give earlies so imagine my surprise when shortly before the dinner break at 6pm on the first of the 2 days he turned to Chris Miller & me with the immortal words ?if you two want to slip off early and beat the rush, feel free?. Slightly shocked, I double checked with him ?Are you sure Jim?? ?Yes, absolutely? he replied. ?Thanks? - and we were gone!!

Well, Chris & I didn?t need asking twice and as we lived in the same house in Wembley at the time and it was known we car shared we thought he must have had an epiphany and we duly walked up to Shenfield Street to get Chris' car, laughing about the unlikeliness of it and how we were hardly going to beat the rush hour at 6pm!!!

Obviously, back in the day without mobile phones it was impossible to get hold of us (particularly as we were sitting in a pub anyway!) so we just enjoyed our unexpected evening off.

Next day, my turn to drive, I dropped Chris off at TVC and then turned around and parked at White City or Shenfield Street and took a leisurely walk down Wood Lane to TVC.

When I arrived in the control room I was met by an ashen faced Chris who explained that he had just had the longest, loudest and most severe bollocking of his whole life from a very angry Jim who, apparently had merely suggested sloping off early to get to the canteen early to beat the rush for the evening meal!!!! Things were made even worse for Chris when Jim reappeared and on seeing me said ?Has he told you? I?m not happy? before disappearing down to the studio floor!

Happy days! Needless to say we were there till the very end that day!

Graham Maunder



From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Thu Jan 16 04:51:47 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 10:51:47 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Faceache explained
In-Reply-To: <CAEMv0RNUW_pc=ypVhL-P73MGbfjffexiXebN41=Y5gM=f=p0nw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEMv0RNUW_pc=ypVhL-P73MGbfjffexiXebN41=Y5gM=f=p0nw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <771578D9B9754E4CA463D140D1EC17A4@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Love it!!

Dave Newbitt.

From: Tony Grant via Tech1 
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2020 10:30 AM
To: TechOps Forum 
Subject: [Tech1] Faceache explained

At last I understand it! 

TeaTeaFN - Tony


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/4e550bfd/attachment.html>

From waresound at msn.com  Thu Jan 16 05:11:48 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 11:11:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Faceache explained
In-Reply-To: <CAEMv0RNUW_pc=ypVhL-P73MGbfjffexiXebN41=Y5gM=f=p0nw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEMv0RNUW_pc=ypVhL-P73MGbfjffexiXebN41=Y5gM=f=p0nw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02719D8BA5D123E888FCE640A7360@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

???????????

Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 16 Jan 2020, at 10:30, Tony Grant via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
At last I understand it!

TeaTeaFN - Tony
[cid:f_k5gle8a20]--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/0ed9060a/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: e5ad63aa-f6c8-4480-827d-62a2c21eaa10.png
Type: image/png
Size: 99174 bytes
Desc: e5ad63aa-f6c8-4480-827d-62a2c21eaa10.png
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/0ed9060a/attachment.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: e5ad63aa-f6c8-4480-827d-62a2c21eaa10.png
Type: image/png
Size: 99174 bytes
Desc: e5ad63aa-f6c8-4480-827d-62a2c21eaa10.png
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/0ed9060a/attachment-0001.png>

From billjenkin67 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 16 05:52:39 2020
From: billjenkin67 at gmail.com (Bill Jenkin)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 11:52:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Leave abbreviations
In-Reply-To: <8630780A-9B5B-4E08-8AE7-C962A097DB26@me.com>
References: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
	<8630780A-9B5B-4E08-8AE7-C962A097DB26@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6tP4Ce2wz323ywUhgoVA_LfRWnBGGNEqKbSSq+pbvzzhJOQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Although bisques were treated as casual last minute days off they were
created in the dim and distant past as extra days off when you were not
obliged to state the reason why you wanted the leave. Apparently it was so
that you could attend a job interview without telling your manager.
I'm sure that they got the name from croquet.
Bill J

On Thu, 16 Jan 2020, 08:37 Alan Taylor via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> I don't think that Bisque is an abbreviation or acronym  The term Bisque
> is used in croquet, tennis or golf to denote a free turn or point to taken
> to give a one off advantage to that player.
>
> I always liked to believe that the BBC Bisque was adopted from a free turn
> in croquet as that seems so utterly BBC.  I feel fairly confident that
> there was no connection between a BBC day of leave and lobster soup.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
>
> On 15 Jan 2020, at 15 Jan . 23:39, John Henshall via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> There was BISQUE - casual day off (2 per year), DOIL - Day Off In Lieu.
>
> But we invented SDOILOOM - or was it ?SDOILOLOM?? - Sick Day Off In Lieu
> Of Lost Overtime Money?
>
> Anyone remember?
>
> Best wishes to all
> John Henshall
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/93151e42/attachment.html>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jan 16 07:53:36 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 13:53:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Leave abbreviations
In-Reply-To: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
References: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
Message-ID: <5e206ade.1c69fb81.434c4.a864@mx.google.com>

And TOIL (Time Off In Lieu).
A cunning scheme was operated by the BBC. An hour or so worked overtime on any day, was not automatically paid.
The hours were ?banked?. When 8 had been amassed, one could apply for a day off ? was that DOIL?
It had to be refused three times within a certain period (I think), before any payment was forthcoming, otherwise you lost it, and the Corp had
got your time for free! We Gram Ops of that time were pretty busy, so refusals for time off in lieu were probably fairly obtainable.

A story involving studio ?time?
Gram Ops Upgrade
I was fairly instrumental at trying to get an upgrade for the Gram Ops salary, as we were doing an awful lot off our own bat,
rather than the programme PA picking FX records and instructing us which tracks to play and where from etc.
In the mid/late sixties, Gram Ops were very much taking over some of the chores previously undertaken by the programme PA.
We grams ops were increasingly attending outside rehearsals, talking to directors as to what was required, then combing the
gram library at TV Centre, and if the required recording unavailable there, ordering it from the main library at BH, or specially
recording something ourselves.*
This seemed a bit above our paygrade, so I started a campaign to have Gram Ops upgraded.
As I was chief stirrer, I was shadowed by a bloke from personnel/management who observed my week's work.
It happened to be quite good, as I was on 'Dr. Who' so there were outside reheasals/script conferences there, sessions
in Studio R - LG to record Dalek voices and assemble the FX tapes for the episode, and maybe a trip to the Radiophonics
Workshop at Maida Vale, or a music recording session at Riverside and subsequent tape editing (was the Sound
Supervisor supposed to do the latter?).
Come the recording day, when at around 19:30, the whole thing came together onto Ampex as virtually a live show recording,
and I recall it was in a TVC studio, rather than LG, I spotted him packing up his briefcase.
"Where are you off to?" I enquired.
"Home" he said, "I finish at half past five"
"No, you don't - you've followed my job all week, and you do not duck out when the whole effort culminates in the
episode recording!"
He phoned his boss, who agreed with me, and he stayed, ringing his wife to say:
"I'm going to be a bit late for supper, dear!"
Subsequently, Gram Ops got an upgrade from C- to C,  I think it was, although I never benefitted, as I had then
left to work in films, but I was pleased to have achieved it for the colleagues I left behind.
(* Drilling into my Dad?s garage wall/faking a water hammer for Steptoe by bashing the central heating pipes/
Recording Guildford Cathedral bell ringers for a peal of eight with the third bell missing ? character in the story had overslept,
and wasn?t on duty! This last was facilitated by Nick Ware, whose brother-in-law happened to be Barry Rose, organist and choirmaster at Guildford.
Recording Traffic at Holland Park ? I needed close up busy traffic. Crouching with Nagra at the pavement edge, I was suddenly belaboured by an elderly lady wielding her umbrella who demanded (a la Edith Evans voice): ?Young Man ? What do you think you are doing!?)
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: John Henshall via Tech1
Sent: 15 January 2020 23:40
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Leave abbreviations

There was BISQUE - casual day off (2 per year), DOIL - Day Off In Lieu.

But we invented SDOILOOM - or was it ?SDOILOLOM?? - Sick Day Off In Lieu Of Lost Overtime Money?

Anyone remember?

Best wishes to all
John Henshall

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/56247047/attachment.html>

From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Thu Jan 16 08:11:43 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 14:11:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Leave
Message-ID: <7451FDB3-2120-45CA-B888-BCD259E7E660@vincent68.plus.com>



When I was a School Governor I got an extra 6 days called Public Service Leave.

John V

From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com  Thu Jan 16 08:30:39 2020
From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 14:30:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies
Message-ID: <870E1898-4297-4C20-85D4-42C32979955E@icloud.com>

This thread has reminded me of one of the most amusing instances of my time at TVC whilst I was working on the camera pool.

I had been allocated to crew 5 for a 2 day drama and, as everyone knows, Jim was never one to give earlies so imagine my surprise when shortly before the dinner break at 6pm on the first of the 2 days he turned to Chris Miller & me with the immortal words ?if you two want to slip off early and beat the rush, feel free?. Slightly shocked, I double checked with him ?Are you sure Jim?? ?Yes, absolutely? he replied. ?Thanks? - and we were gone!!

Well, Chris & I didn?t need asking twice and as we lived in the same house in Wembley at the time and it was known we car shared we thought he must have had an epiphany and we duly walked up to Shenfield Street to get Chris' car, laughing about the unlikeliness of it and how we were hardly going to beat the rush hour at 6pm!!!

Obviously, back in the day without mobile phones it was impossible to get hold of us (particularly as we were sitting in a pub anyway!) so we just enjoyed our unexpected evening off.

Next day, my turn to drive, I dropped Chris off at TVC and then turned around and parked at White City or Shenfield Street and took a leisurely walk down Wood Lane to TVC.

When I arrived in the control room I was met by an ashen faced Chris who explained that he had just had the longest, loudest and most severe bollocking of his whole life from a very angry Jim who, apparently had merely suggested sloping off early to get to the canteen early to beat the rush for the evening meal!!!! Things were made even worse for Chris when Jim reappeared and on seeing me said ?Has he told you? I?m not happy? before disappearing down to the studio floor!

Happy days! Needless to say we were there till the very end that day!

Graham Maunder

Sent from my iPhone 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/b4156bde/attachment.html>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Jan 16 10:11:36 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 16:11:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies
In-Reply-To: <870E1898-4297-4C20-85D4-42C32979955E@icloud.com>
References: <870E1898-4297-4C20-85D4-42C32979955E@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <5e208b37.1c69fb81.c781a.819b@mx.google.com>

Hardly amusing, Graham! I assume that Jim is Atkinson, who reckoned he taught me camera operation in 30 mins flat. No wonder I went to Sound.
Got the harsh end of Jim?s tongue on a schools prog. Tracking  Motorised Vinten, in TC5, starting in the far corner, had to advance and line up on a tracking ladder which we moved up and down for the rest of the show. Perfect on rehearsal ? I screwed it on live transmission, as I ended up at least two foot back, so none of the shots framed properly ? no zooms, then!
I got into trouble on a LG ?D? show, I was acting SA1, then and brought the sound crew in on our usual time for a late afternoon programme and Sky at Night. What I hadn?t clocked is that management had scheduled an H & S talk and demo of ?Correct Lifting? So we missed it. My punishment was to attend another demo, then repeat everything to my crew!
Think I know now: ?Bend ze knees, feet together, don?t arch your back like a crane......?
Another timing (nearly disaster!) Grove Family from LG ? Live! I was in the LG club, my drinking colleague offered another half ? I declined, as we were on air at 19:30, and the first line was on my boom. I climbed up, racked out and put on cans, only to hear the PA counting down from Pres, reached 5 before Transmission ? It was 19:15, not 19:30. The SS (can?t remember who), was having kittens.

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Graham Maunder via Tech1
Sent: 16 January 2020 14:30
To: TechOps Forum
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies

This thread has reminded me of one of the most amusing instances of my time at TVC whilst I was working on the camera pool.

I had been allocated to crew 5 for a 2 day drama and, as everyone knows, Jim was never one to give earlies so imagine my surprise when shortly before the dinner break?at 6pm?on the first of the 2 days he turned to Chris Miller & me with the immortal words ?if you two want to slip off early and beat the rush, feel free?. Slightly shocked, I double checked with him ?Are you sure Jim?? ?Yes, absolutely? he replied. ?Thanks? - and we were gone!!

Well, Chris & I didn?t need asking twice and as we lived in the same house in Wembley at the time and it was known we car shared we thought he must have had an epiphany and we duly walked up to Shenfield Street to get Chris' car, laughing about the unlikeliness of it and how we were hardly going to beat the rush hour?at 6pm!!!

Obviously, back in the day without mobile phones it was impossible to get hold of us (particularly as we were sitting in a pub anyway!) so we just enjoyed our unexpected evening off.

Next day, my turn to drive, I dropped Chris off at TVC and then turned around and parked at White City or Shenfield Street and took a leisurely walk down Wood Lane to TVC.

When I arrived in the control room I was met by an ashen faced Chris who explained that he had just had the longest, loudest and most severe bollocking of his whole life from a very angry Jim who, apparently had merely suggested sloping off early to get to the canteen early to beat the rush for the evening meal!!!! Things were made even worse for Chris when Jim reappeared and on seeing me said ?Has he told you? I?m not happy? before disappearing down to the studio floor!

Happy days! Needless to say we were there till the very end that day!

Graham Maunder
Sent from my iPhone?

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/aa1d9564/attachment.html>

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Thu Jan 16 10:28:21 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 16:28:21 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies
In-Reply-To: <5e208b37.1c69fb81.c781a.819b@mx.google.com>
References: <870E1898-4297-4C20-85D4-42C32979955E@icloud.com>
	<5e208b37.1c69fb81.c781a.819b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <664e2778-3ce7-8d00-7694-4e80e37a4173@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 16/01/2020 16:11, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> ..I assume that Jim is Atkinson, who reckoned he taught me camera 
> operation in 30 mins flat. No wonder I went to Sound...
>
>
Yes Jim was a martinet, but he could unquestionably do the job, and I 
quite enjoyed bashing for him and cooperating with is little games. He 
would nip off during an unimportant part of a rehearsal for a smoke in 
the tech store, and expected you to offer up his previously rehearsed 
shots when necessary. He would sneakily have a monitor close at hand so 
knew if you had got it wrong.

A harsh task-master in some respects but I learnt a lot very quickly. 
Perhaps I was lucky that I never got the ratty end of him.


Chris Woolf

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/8b87941d/attachment.html>

From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Thu Jan 16 11:00:22 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 17:00:22 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies
In-Reply-To: <664e2778-3ce7-8d00-7694-4e80e37a4173@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <870E1898-4297-4C20-85D4-42C32979955E@icloud.com>
	<5e208b37.1c69fb81.c781a.819b@mx.google.com>
	<664e2778-3ce7-8d00-7694-4e80e37a4173@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <F50F7793-54D4-4645-9EE6-2685CE7AB3A7@vincent68.plus.com>

Yes, I learnt a lot from Jim. How not to treat staff when I became a Camera Supervisor!

He never gave earlies but was happy to bunk off himself on Saturdays to play football for the BBC third team. 

My first crew was Mike Bond.

Need I say any more!

John V


On 16 Jan 2020, at 16:28, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:

> 
> On 16/01/2020 16:11, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>> ..I assume that Jim is Atkinson, who reckoned he taught me camera operation in 30 mins flat. No wonder I went to Sound...
>> 
> Yes Jim was a martinet, but he could unquestionably do the job, and I quite enjoyed bashing for him and cooperating with is little games. He would nip off during an unimportant part of a rehearsal for a smoke in the tech store, and expected you to offer up his previously rehearsed shots when necessary. He would sneakily have a monitor close at hand so knew if you had got it wrong.
> A harsh task-master in some respects but I learnt a lot very quickly. Perhaps I was lucky that I never got the ratty end of him.
> 
> 
> Chris Woolf
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/779e8d67/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 16 11:20:23 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 17:20:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies
In-Reply-To: <F50F7793-54D4-4645-9EE6-2685CE7AB3A7@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <870E1898-4297-4C20-85D4-42C32979955E@icloud.com>
	<5e208b37.1c69fb81.c781a.819b@mx.google.com>
	<664e2778-3ce7-8d00-7694-4e80e37a4173@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<F50F7793-54D4-4645-9EE6-2685CE7AB3A7@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <5f8a478d-e5ba-b60b-9b88-7cd812129e6d@gmail.com>

I enjoyed being Jim's cable basher, and he let me do very minor cameras 
on big plays now and then.

On Romeo and Juliet he gave me a shot to do at the Capulet ball. He 
sloped off leaving me a choice of being in John Cavacuiti's shot down 
the stairs, or John Christie's along the cloisters.? A lot of years 
later I loaded the 35mm recording onto a Steenbeck and there I was, with 
a camera and a load of cable.

I didn't want to move on.

B



On 16/01/2020 17:00, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
> Yes, I learnt a lot from Jim. How not to treat staff when I became a 
> Camera Supervisor!
>
> He never gave earlies but was happy to bunk off himself on Saturdays 
> to play football for the BBC third team.
>
> My first crew was Mike Bond.
>
> Need I say any more!
>
> John V
>
>
> On 16 Jan 2020, at 16:28, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>
>>
>> On 16/01/2020 16:11, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>
>>> ..I assume that Jim is Atkinson, who reckoned he taught me camera 
>>> operation in 30 mins flat. No wonder I went to Sound...
>>>
>>>
>> Yes Jim was a martinet, but he could unquestionably do the job, and I 
>> quite enjoyed bashing for him and cooperating with is little games. 
>> He would nip off during an unimportant part of a rehearsal for a 
>> smoke in the tech store, and expected you to offer up his previously 
>> rehearsed shots when necessary. He would sneakily have a monitor 
>> close at hand so knew if you had got it wrong.
>>
>> A harsh task-master in some respects but I learnt a lot very quickly. 
>> Perhaps I was lucky that I never got the ratty end of him.
>>
>>
>> Chris Woolf
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/f3c2cd5b/attachment.html>

From john at epi-centre.com  Thu Jan 16 12:17:11 2020
From: john at epi-centre.com (John Henshall)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 18:17:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Leave abbreviations
In-Reply-To: <5e206ade.1c69fb81.434c4.a864@mx.google.com>
References: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
	<5e206ade.1c69fb81.434c4.a864@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E978B912-456F-4E76-8BDA-09CA1C121397@epi-centre.com>

Thank you all for the feedback and clarification regarding SDOILOOM.

Plenty of detail there for me to distill down for my book.

Best regards
John (Henshall)


From waresound at msn.com  Thu Jan 16 13:05:19 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 19:05:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies
In-Reply-To: <5f8a478d-e5ba-b60b-9b88-7cd812129e6d@gmail.com>
References: <870E1898-4297-4C20-85D4-42C32979955E@icloud.com>
	<5e208b37.1c69fb81.c781a.819b@mx.google.com>
	<664e2778-3ce7-8d00-7694-4e80e37a4173@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<F50F7793-54D4-4645-9EE6-2685CE7AB3A7@vincent68.plus.com>,
	<5f8a478d-e5ba-b60b-9b88-7cd812129e6d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271CD5FB6121D6063FCB190A7360@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I thought the golden rule of television vision mixing was supposed to be: ?If it?s in shot, cut to it?!
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:20, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? I enjoyed being Jim's cable basher, and he let me do very minor cameras on big plays now and then.

On Romeo and Juliet he gave me a shot to do at the Capulet ball. He sloped off leaving me a choice of being in John Cavacuiti's shot down the stairs, or John Christie's along the cloisters.  A lot of years later I loaded the 35mm recording onto a Steenbeck and there I was, with a camera and a load of cable.

I didn't want to move on.

B



On 16/01/2020 17:00, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
Yes, I learnt a lot from Jim. How not to treat staff when I became a Camera Supervisor!

He never gave earlies but was happy to bunk off himself on Saturdays to play football for the BBC third team.

My first crew was Mike Bond.

Need I say any more!

John V


On 16 Jan 2020, at 16:28, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:



On 16/01/2020 16:11, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
..I assume that Jim is Atkinson, who reckoned he taught me camera operation in 30 mins flat. No wonder I went to Sound...


Yes Jim was a martinet, but he could unquestionably do the job, and I quite enjoyed bashing for him and cooperating with is little games. He would nip off during an unimportant part of a rehearsal for a smoke in the tech store, and expected you to offer up his previously rehearsed shots when necessary. He would sneakily have a monitor close at hand so knew if you had got it wrong.

A harsh task-master in some respects but I learnt a lot very quickly. Perhaps I was lucky that I never got the ratty end of him.


Chris Woolf

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk




--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/a497a697/attachment.html>

From john at epi-centre.com  Thu Jan 16 13:13:32 2020
From: john at epi-centre.com (John Henshall)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 19:13:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] TS card
Message-ID: <538DD814-0FAC-4DA3-998A-A220709EF8AF@epi-centre.com>

Did any of you ever receive one of these A6 size cards from Tony Abbey? He would just put A.A. in the box.
If so, why did you get it?
Cheers, John Henshall.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/65889ff6/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Tony Abbey TS card.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 111048 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/65889ff6/attachment.jpg>

From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Thu Jan 16 13:29:26 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 19:29:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271CD5FB6121D6063FCB190A7360@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <870E1898-4297-4C20-85D4-42C32979955E@icloud.com>
	<5e208b37.1c69fb81.c781a.819b@mx.google.com>
	<664e2778-3ce7-8d00-7694-4e80e37a4173@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<F50F7793-54D4-4645-9EE6-2685CE7AB3A7@vincent68.plus.com>
	<5f8a478d-e5ba-b60b-9b88-7cd812129e6d@gmail.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271CD5FB6121D6063FCB190A7360@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <9AA2BCF2-DECE-4A22-8FD2-078AC3A425EB@icloud.com>

That?s OBs, not studio!

? 
Graeme Wall


> On 16 Jan 2020, at 19:05, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I thought the golden rule of television vision mixing was supposed to be: ?If it?s in shot, cut to it?!
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:20, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ? I enjoyed being Jim's cable basher, and he let me do very minor cameras on big plays now and then.
>> 
>> On Romeo and Juliet he gave me a shot to do at the Capulet ball. He sloped off leaving me a choice of being in John Cavacuiti's shot down the stairs, or John Christie's along the cloisters.  A lot of years later I loaded the 35mm recording onto a Steenbeck and there I was, with a camera and a load of cable.  
>> 
>> I didn't want to move on.
>> 
>> B
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On 16/01/2020 17:00, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Yes, I learnt a lot from Jim. How not to treat staff when I became a Camera Supervisor!
>>> 
>>> He never gave earlies but was happy to bunk off himself on Saturdays to play football for the BBC third team. 
>>> 
>>> My first crew was Mike Bond.
>>> 
>>> Need I say any more!
>>> 
>>> John V
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 16 Jan 2020, at 16:28, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 16/01/2020 16:11, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> ..I assume that Jim is Atkinson, who reckoned he taught me camera operation in 30 mins flat. No wonder I went to Sound...
>>>>> 
>>>> Yes Jim was a martinet, but he could unquestionably do the job, and I quite enjoyed bashing for him and cooperating with is little games. He would nip off during an unimportant part of a rehearsal for a smoke in the tech store, and expected you to offer up his previously rehearsed shots when necessary. He would sneakily have a monitor close at hand so knew if you had got it wrong.
>>>> 
>>>> A harsh task-master in some respects but I learnt a lot very quickly. Perhaps I was lucky that I never got the ratty end of him.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 16 14:38:23 2020
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 20:38:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies (not)
In-Reply-To: <5f8a478d-e5ba-b60b-9b88-7cd812129e6d@gmail.com>
References: <5f8a478d-e5ba-b60b-9b88-7cd812129e6d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0B02FBD1-7A85-494B-8916-667228FD00A1@gmail.com>

The saying about Jim I remember in this context was that on a drama, ?Jim had every shot except one, and that one he got in.?
Geoff



Geoff
> On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:20, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? I enjoyed being Jim's cable basher, and he let me do very minor cameras on big plays now and then.
> 
> On Romeo and Juliet he gave me a shot to do at the Capulet ball. He sloped off leaving me a choice of being in John Cavacuiti's shot down the stairs, or John Christie's along the cloisters.  A lot of years later I loaded the 35mm recording onto a Steenbeck and there I was, with a camera and a load of cable.  
> 
> I didn't want to move on.
> 
> B
> 
>  
> 
> On 16/01/2020 17:00, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
>> Yes, I learnt a lot from Jim. How not to treat staff when I became a Camera Supervisor!
>> 
>> He never gave earlies but was happy to bunk off himself on Saturdays to play football for the BBC third team. 
>> 
>> My first crew was Mike Bond.
>> 
>> Need I say any more!
>> 
>> John V
>> 
>> 
>>> On 16 Jan 2020, at 16:28, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 16/01/2020 16:11, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> ..I assume that Jim is Atkinson, who reckoned he taught me camera operation in 30 mins flat. No wonder I went to Sound...
>>>> 
>>> Yes Jim was a martinet, but he could unquestionably do the job, and I quite enjoyed bashing for him and cooperating with is little games. He would nip off during an unimportant part of a rehearsal for a smoke in the tech store, and expected you to offer up his previously rehearsed shots when necessary. He would sneakily have a monitor close at hand so knew if you had got it wrong.
>>> 
>>> A harsh task-master in some respects but I learnt a lot very quickly. Perhaps I was lucky that I never got the ratty end of him.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Chris Woolf
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/24bd48af/attachment.html>

From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Thu Jan 16 14:52:44 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 20:52:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Leave abbreviations
In-Reply-To: <E978B912-456F-4E76-8BDA-09CA1C121397@epi-centre.com>
References: <E03D00F4-AFF7-497C-B84E-691E026DDA5B@epi-centre.com>
	<5e206ade.1c69fb81.434c4.a864@mx.google.com>
	<E978B912-456F-4E76-8BDA-09CA1C121397@epi-centre.com>
Message-ID: <1051892316.21257576.1579207964890@mail.yahoo.com>

 I'm still sure it was DOSILOO! - Day Off Sick In Lieu Of Overtime!
In 1989 (after your time, John) there was a dastardly plot to abolish DOILs. Senior BBC Bureaucrats had decided that DOILs were EXTRA leave, that they didn't get, so they didn't see why IHW Staff should get them either. We complained about this to Line Managers, Personal, etc. who said they could do nothing (predictably). By chance there had been a letter in Ariel, on a different subject, from someone called Phillip Kipping, 'Head of Pay and Conditions'. I'd never heard of him, but was amused by his surname. (I mean 'Kipping'? Isn't that what BBC Bureaucrats do all day?) So, since he was 'Head of Pay and Conditions' I decided to write him a letter, explaining that DOILs were just the same Bank Holidays that everyone else gets, and that, over all, IHW Staff received much less leave that Office Workers. I pinned a copy of my letter to Crew Room noticeboard, and suggested that other might also like to write to Mr. Kipping. Apparently, large numbers did. As a result, the plan to abolish DOILs was cancelled. (For a while - Other dastardly plots were hatched later!)
luv, Rog.

    On Thursday, 16 January 2020, 18:17:44 GMT, John Henshall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:  
 
 Thank you all for the feedback and clarification regarding SDOILOOM.

Plenty of detail there for me to distill down for my book.

Best regards
John (Henshall)

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200116/95d6ce89/attachment.html>

From geoffletch at gmail.com  Fri Jan 17 02:10:10 2020
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 08:10:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271CD5FB6121D6063FCB190A7360@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <870E1898-4297-4C20-85D4-42C32979955E@icloud.com>
	<5e208b37.1c69fb81.c781a.819b@mx.google.com>
	<664e2778-3ce7-8d00-7694-4e80e37a4173@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<F50F7793-54D4-4645-9EE6-2685CE7AB3A7@vincent68.plus.com>
	<5f8a478d-e5ba-b60b-9b88-7cd812129e6d@gmail.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271CD5FB6121D6063FCB190A7360@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB--+qK9hU500Z++gzeZKaGZfw7uRxyrc0h+iy6X04Necw@mail.gmail.com>

i disliked Jim and his nasty bullying ways and thought he was overrated as
an operator . He had built an almost mystical reputation for himself but in
truth I could name several cameramen who were just as good as him on a ped,
and one or two who were better, without all the petty bullshit - the late
great Pete Ware comes to mind for example. I only worked with his crew
once, as I refused to get him a tea when in the canteen as I didn't like
his attitude. I had been around a bit before I joined the BBC and had met
his type before. OK - before the legion of Jim fans start - I know this
will be seen as heresy, but that was my opinion then and it still is.
Geoff F

On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 at 19:05, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> I thought the golden rule of television vision mixing was supposed to be:
> ?If it?s in shot, cut to it?!
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
> On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:20, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ? I enjoyed being Jim's cable basher, and he let me do very minor cameras
> on big plays now and then.
>
>
>
> On Romeo and Juliet he gave me a shot to do at the Capulet ball. He sloped
> off leaving me a choice of being in John Cavacuiti's shot down the stairs,
> or John Christie's along the cloisters.  A lot of years later I loaded the
> 35mm recording onto a Steenbeck and there I was, with a camera and a load
> of cable.
>
> I didn't want to move on.
>
> B
>
>
>
> On 16/01/2020 17:00, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Yes, I learnt a lot from Jim. How not to treat staff when I became a
> Camera Supervisor!
>
> He never gave earlies but was happy to bunk off himself on Saturdays to
> play football for the BBC third team.
>
> My first crew was Mike Bond.
>
> Need I say any more!
>
> John V
>
>
> On 16 Jan 2020, at 16:28, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>
>
> On 16/01/2020 16:11, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> ..I assume that Jim is Atkinson, who reckoned he taught me camera
> operation in 30 mins flat. No wonder I went to Sound...
>
> Yes Jim was a martinet, but he could unquestionably do the job, and I
> quite enjoyed bashing for him and cooperating with is little games. He
> would nip off during an unimportant part of a rehearsal for a smoke in the
> tech store, and expected you to offer up his previously rehearsed shots
> when necessary. He would sneakily have a monitor close at hand so knew if
> you had got it wrong.
>
> A harsh task-master in some respects but I learnt a lot very quickly.
> Perhaps I was lucky that I never got the ratty end of him.
>
>
> Chris Woolf
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200117/3b45143f/attachment.html>

From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 17 03:30:39 2020
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 09:30:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Flying, Light Aircraft, PPL, Forced Landing
Message-ID: <4c97003e-2969-af62-5fc3-a3c5502b35ec@gmail.com>

Hi all,

I know that many of you are interested in planes, light aircraft, 
flying? etc, and that some of you hold PPLs.? If so, read on ... if not, 
ignore this email!

One of the members of the Reading Society of Model Engineers, Alasdair 
Milne,? holds a PPL, and in fact built his own plane from a kit - the 
EUROPA.?? Some time back, he was flying in Italy and suffered a fuel 
leak when in mountainous country.? Attached is his story about bringing 
the plane into land, with the only fuel available in the reserve tank - 
and aiming for the only flat bit of land for miles around.

Enjoy!

(PS I will pass on any queries etc to Alasdair if you want to know more)

-- 
Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Alasdair_forced_landing.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 3831452 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200117/367d4c2d/attachment.pdf>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 17 04:50:43 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 10:50:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Flying, Light Aircraft, PPL, Forced Landing
In-Reply-To: <4c97003e-2969-af62-5fc3-a3c5502b35ec@gmail.com>
References: <4c97003e-2969-af62-5fc3-a3c5502b35ec@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <788ff74e-ec0a-99a3-0221-7f368775eeb4@gmail.com>

Following on from Alec's post, I thought you might enjoy this.? It's 
from a series in Pilot Magazine called "That Worst Day". This particular 
was published in 2001, but I kept it........


/"//DURING THE EARLY months of 1992 our small group of four flyers (two 
aircraft) decided that a visit to Tenerife would be in order.///

/Having watched low clouds and horizontal rain for a few weekends, we 
were ready to go. Then, as departure time approached, one of our party 
had to withdraw, which left three of us in one aircraft. Two is company 
and three, most of the time is OK, but sometimes a crowd./

//

/So, one Sunday the three of us squeezed into a Mooney 205SE and set off 
towards Jersey for cheap fuel and breakfast, and then to San Sebastian, 
and finally on the Sunday, to Malaga, We stayed there overnight, then 
flew south towards Tenerife./

//

/At this stage I was glad to have come with the more experienced flyers 
in our group, as Morocco looked daunting, but turned out to be very 
professional. The only moment was when Dennis insisted on calling El 
Jadidah, El Jadiddle. "Where?" asked ATC. In fact that flight was great. 
We arrived in Reina Sofia on the Monday at 1625 local and were quickly 
whisked through to our taxi./

//

/Four days later, and the local food not agreeing with me, we attempted 
to set out northbound, only to be beaten by the fog at Tenerife North 
Airport. In fact we decided to make Gran Canaria our refuelling stop. It 
seems all Spanish airports like to help pilots with their personal 
fitness programmes, because they always park the aircraft at least one 
mile away from the big yellow C and the resident Met man. So - "Let's be 
different. Let's go to Madeira then on to Faro." /

//

/Agreed. So we filed for Madeira. Were we worried about single-engined 
flight over seven hours of water? No. Was it really worse than mountains 
in Spain or hostile looking desert in Morocco? Besides, we knew this 
aeroplane very well, having owned it from new, and it only had 450 hours 
total./

//

/The flight to Madeira was so smooth that we were lulled into a 
wonderful sense of security. The curved approach to Madeira is certainly 
very interesting and full of turbulence. How many PPLs have Funchal in 
their logbooks? The helpful man in the Tower had trouble identifying the 
Mooney in his payment book, as not too many single-engined aeroplanes 
visit him, and when an enormous eight-wheeled tanker approached we tried 
to wave him away?but on the back, on a tiny trailer, was the avgas 100LL./

//

/By now, my stomach had been behaving itself for about 36 hours, so I 
tried a very dry ham roll, It tasted OK. On the climb-out of Madeira we 
were held at FL70 for an opposite direction 737 at FL80. "What are you 
guys in?" the crew asked. "Ah! We see you, good luck," they said./

//

/Well, it wasn't luck we needed with the aeroplane. That was fine. It 
was with my now aching stomach. Fortunately I was sitting in the back 
for this leg. With over four hours of flight in front of us, I had to 
tell the others the bad news./

//

/"I need a toilet."/

//

/"You will have to hold it," I was told./

//

/In one of my previous employments I was fortunate enough to travel the 
world as a loadmaster on freight aircraft and very early in my career I 
discovered that a plastic bag with proprietary pills and lotions was an 
extremely useful tool kit when stuck in the depths of Africa for 
extended periods and suffering Delhi belly./

//

/It was to this tool kit that I now resorted. Not for the tablets, it 
was too late for them, but for the plastic bag, to use as a temporary, 
non-chemical, toilet. Now, this exercise, in a Mooney, was testing 
friendship to a very high degree. The smell was awful./

//

/I laid a towel on the seats and did the business. Wow! That's better, 
and the smell slowly cleared. Then, about another forty minutes later, I 
got another 'message' and had to reopen the portable toilet, make a 
little more room and have another attempt to break the Guinness Book of 
Records smelliest Mooney toilet award. If the smell was awful the first 
time, the second attempt surpassed all bounds of friendship and decency. 
I even considered that a dinghy in the Atlantic Ocean was preferable to 
this. I think that if I had received a third message, the other crew 
would have found a way to drop me, and the dinghy, out of the very small 
Mooney door at about ten feet QNH./

//

/The inner workings of my digestive system seemed to settle down after 
these two inconveniences and so it was that we found ourselves on final 
at Faro. "Keep your speed up Golf Alpha, you have an Airbus at six 
miles." I think this probably pushed our skipper over the top. He 
landed, bounced, landed, bounced and then landed. He only had about 700 
hours in this type of aircraft and was usually very good./

//

/Don't you find that it all looks very easy from the back seat? ' 'Hey 
mate, that's the worst landing that I have ever seen you do."/

//

/"Yes," he agreed, and then came back with a very caustic, "But I've 
never landed a toilet before." We all hoped that the Customs officer did 
not want to
examine the contents of my holdall. And it's a strange thing ? when I 
rang my wife from the hotel, she told me that she didn't want the towel 
back!"/

/
/

B

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200117/bc5d0a90/attachment.html>

From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Fri Jan 17 06:15:42 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2020 12:15:42 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies
In-Reply-To: <CAB99AB--+qK9hU500Z++gzeZKaGZfw7uRxyrc0h+iy6X04Necw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <870E1898-4297-4C20-85D4-42C32979955E@icloud.com>
	<5e208b37.1c69fb81.c781a.819b@mx.google.com>
	<664e2778-3ce7-8d00-7694-4e80e37a4173@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<F50F7793-54D4-4645-9EE6-2685CE7AB3A7@vincent68.plus.com>
	<5f8a478d-e5ba-b60b-9b88-7cd812129e6d@gmail.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271CD5FB6121D6063FCB190A7360@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<CAB99AB--+qK9hU500Z++gzeZKaGZfw7uRxyrc0h+iy6X04Necw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0A37DAAE-E298-4BF9-86FD-DD9BE6AC7B3A@vincent68.plus.com>

Totally agree about Pete Ware

I was on his crew for a bit. Lovely memories.

Only downside was he would take us to the bar at lunchtimes, so it was hard on the pocket!

John V


On 17 Jan 2020, at 08:10, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 wrote:

> i disliked Jim and his nasty bullying ways and thought he was overrated as an operator . He had built an almost mystical reputation for himself but in truth I could name several cameramen who were just as good as him on a ped, and one or two who were better, without all the petty bullshit - the late great Pete Ware comes to mind for example. I only worked with his crew once, as I refused to get him a tea when in the canteen as I didn't like his attitude. I had been around a bit before I joined the BBC and had met his type before. OK - before the legion of Jim fans start - I know this will be seen as heresy, but that was my opinion then and it still is.
> Geoff F
> 
> On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 at 19:05, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I thought the golden rule of television vision mixing was supposed to be: ?If it?s in shot, cut to it?!
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:20, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ? I enjoyed being Jim's cable basher, and he let me do very minor cameras on big plays now and then.
> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Romeo and Juliet he gave me a shot to do at the Capulet ball. He sloped off leaving me a choice of being in John Cavacuiti's shot down the stairs, or John Christie's along the cloisters.  A lot of years later I loaded the 35mm recording onto a Steenbeck  and there I was, with a camera and a load of cable.  
>> 
>> I didn't want to move on.
>> 
>> B
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On 16/01/2020 17:00, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Yes, I learnt a lot from Jim. How not to treat staff when I became a Camera Supervisor!
>>> 
>>> He never gave earlies but was happy to bunk off himself on Saturdays to play football for the BBC third team. 
>>> 
>>> My first crew was Mike Bond.
>>> 
>>> Need I say any more!
>>> 
>>> John V
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 16 Jan 2020, at 16:28, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 16/01/2020 16:11, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> ..I assume that Jim is Atkinson, who reckoned he taught me camera operation in 30 mins flat. No wonder I went to Sound...
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> Yes Jim was a martinet, but he could unquestionably do the job, and I quite enjoyed bashing for him and cooperating with is little games. He would nip off during an unimportant part of a rehearsal for a smoke in the tech store, and expected you to offer  up his previously rehearsed shots when necessary. He would sneakily have a monitor close at hand so knew if you had got it wrong.
>>>> A harsh task-master in some respects but I learnt a lot very quickly. Perhaps I was lucky that I never got the ratty end of him.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200117/80685e03/attachment.html>

From waresound at msn.com  Sat Jan 18 08:08:40 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 14:08:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies
In-Reply-To: <0A37DAAE-E298-4BF9-86FD-DD9BE6AC7B3A@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <870E1898-4297-4C20-85D4-42C32979955E@icloud.com>
	<5e208b37.1c69fb81.c781a.819b@mx.google.com>
	<664e2778-3ce7-8d00-7694-4e80e37a4173@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<F50F7793-54D4-4645-9EE6-2685CE7AB3A7@vincent68.plus.com>
	<5f8a478d-e5ba-b60b-9b88-7cd812129e6d@gmail.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271CD5FB6121D6063FCB190A7360@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<CAB99AB--+qK9hU500Z++gzeZKaGZfw7uRxyrc0h+iy6X04Necw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<0A37DAAE-E298-4BF9-86FD-DD9BE6AC7B3A@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02710ABC570D9FE2841EECF6A7300@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I often used to get sent Pete Ware?s payslips. Me being NP Ware made it an easy mistake to make, I suppose. I was of course, gutted at how much less mine was than his.
Ware isn?t that common a name, so we chatted to see if we had any family connection, but came to the conclusion we must both be descended from our most famous lavatorial ancestor, Armitage.
Further thought made us wonder whether we were conceived in the Great Bed of Ware (which can accommodate up to four couples!), but even that didn?t narrow it down.
Suffice to say, although I was never on a crew with him, he seemed to be a lovely guy. How could he not be?!
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 17 Jan 2020, at 12:16, John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

? Totally agree about Pete Ware

I was on his crew for a bit. Lovely memories.

Only downside was he would take us to the bar at lunchtimes, so it was hard on the pocket!

John V


On 17 Jan 2020, at 08:10, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 wrote:

i disliked Jim and his nasty bullying ways and thought he was overrated as an operator . He had built an almost mystical reputation for himself but in truth I could name several cameramen who were just as good as him on a ped, and one or two who were better, without all the petty bullshit - the late great Pete Ware comes to mind for example. I only worked with his crew once, as I refused to get him a tea when in the canteen as I didn't like his attitude. I had been around a bit before I joined the BBC and had met his type before. OK - before the legion of Jim fans start - I know this will be seen as heresy, but that was my opinion then and it still is.
Geoff F

On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 at 19:05, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
I thought the golden rule of television vision mixing was supposed to be: ?If it?s in shot, cut to it?!
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 16 Jan 2020, at 17:20, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

? I enjoyed being Jim's cable basher, and he let me do very minor cameras on big plays now and then.


On Romeo and Juliet he gave me a shot to do at the Capulet ball. He sloped off leaving me a choice of being in John Cavacuiti's shot down the stairs, or John Christie's along the cloisters.  A lot of years later I loaded the 35mm recording onto a Steenbeck and there I was, with a camera and a load of cable.

I didn't want to move on.

B



On 16/01/2020 17:00, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
Yes, I learnt a lot from Jim. How not to treat staff when I became a Camera Supervisor!

He never gave earlies but was happy to bunk off himself on Saturdays to play football for the BBC third team.

My first crew was Mike Bond.

Need I say any more!

John V


On 16 Jan 2020, at 16:28, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote:



On 16/01/2020 16:11, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
..I assume that Jim is Atkinson, who reckoned he taught me camera operation in 30 mins flat. No wonder I went to Sound...


Yes Jim was a martinet, but he could unquestionably do the job, and I quite enjoyed bashing for him and cooperating with is little games. He would nip off during an unimportant part of a rehearsal for a smoke in the tech store, and expected you to offer up his previously rehearsed shots when necessary. He would sneakily have a monitor close at hand so knew if you had got it wrong.

A harsh task-master in some respects but I learnt a lot very quickly. Perhaps I was lucky that I never got the ratty end of him.


Chris Woolf

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk




--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200118/abb72129/attachment.html>

From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Jan 18 09:47:04 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 15:47:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies
In-Reply-To: <CAB99AB--+qK9hU500Z++gzeZKaGZfw7uRxyrc0h+iy6X04Necw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <870E1898-4297-4C20-85D4-42C32979955E@icloud.com>
	<5e208b37.1c69fb81.c781a.819b@mx.google.com>
	<664e2778-3ce7-8d00-7694-4e80e37a4173@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<F50F7793-54D4-4645-9EE6-2685CE7AB3A7@vincent68.plus.com>
	<5f8a478d-e5ba-b60b-9b88-7cd812129e6d@gmail.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271CD5FB6121D6063FCB190A7360@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<CAB99AB--+qK9hU500Z++gzeZKaGZfw7uRxyrc0h+iy6X04Necw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5e232878.1c69fb81.e42f5.ac84@mx.google.com>

I hadn?t thought it, really until reflecting upon an enjoyable career with the BBC, that it?s not dissimilar to any factory floor. OK we didn?t wear blue collar overalls, but there were still ?suits? upstairs, and myriad opportunities for more experienced ?workers? to make life miserable for junior crew.
I was supremely lucky, being posted in early days to Crew 3, who lived in TVT and worked on most of the LE stuff originated there.
I loved it, and the guys on the crew both camera and sound were brilliant and supportive. I?m still in touch with Eddie Stuart the #1 cameraman. We regularly did B&W Minstrels & Billy Cotton.
I kept in touch with George Mitchell, and at a celebration party for his 80th Birthday, ran a video version of my illicit 8mm movie, but off Betacam, as I had transferred the film via a Sony Betacam 400 camera.

Although it had been 30 years since we were on Crew 3, knowing that Senior Cameraman Eddie Stuart had married Cherry Alston - Make-up Supervisor, I managed to track Cherry down as I was in the Film Industry by then, therefore through her, Eddie. Within half an hour, I had contacted enough people to make up a crew table for the party. (Very sadly, Cherry died later, of cancer, not too long ago; Eddie has since remarried).
George M eventually passed away, but I am still in touch with his then wife, Dot, who had been the Head Topper for a while.

In closing, I would say that time on Crew Three ranks as the best part of my career - show biz, music, glamorous ladies etc. and I am dismayed at the Corporation's attitude to dispensing with TVC.

Pat (feeling very nostalgic)

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1
Sent: 17 January 2020 08:10
To: Nick Ware
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Earlies

i disliked Jim and his nasty bullying ways and thought he was overrated as an operator . He had built an almost mystical reputation for himself but in truth I could name several cameramen who were just as good as him on a ped, and one or two who were better, without all the petty bullshit - the late great Pete Ware comes to mind for example. I only worked with his crew once, as I refused to get him a tea when in the canteen as I didn't like his attitude. I had been around a bit before I joined the BBC and had met his type before. OK - before the legion of Jim fans start - I know this will be seen as heresy, but that was my opinion then and it still is.
Geoff F


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200118/3597cb25/attachment.html>

From timhealy935 at btinternet.com  Sat Jan 18 10:25:29 2020
From: timhealy935 at btinternet.com (Michael Healy)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 16:25:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies
In-Reply-To: <5e232878.1c69fb81.e42f5.ac84@mx.google.com>
References: <870E1898-4297-4C20-85D4-42C32979955E@icloud.com>
	<5e208b37.1c69fb81.c781a.819b@mx.google.com>
	<664e2778-3ce7-8d00-7694-4e80e37a4173@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<F50F7793-54D4-4645-9EE6-2685CE7AB3A7@vincent68.plus.com>
	<5f8a478d-e5ba-b60b-9b88-7cd812129e6d@gmail.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271CD5FB6121D6063FCB190A7360@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<CAB99AB--+qK9hU500Z++gzeZKaGZfw7uRxyrc0h+iy6X04Necw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e232878.1c69fb81.e42f5.ac84@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <69840A62-C7AF-4CD2-8972-41304C4ED645@btinternet.com>

A Pete Ware Story.
Mid 60s School or OU prog, I?m tracking the Heron and Pete?s on the front. As we are rehearsing I wasn?t too gentle when repositioning and those who?ve done it will remember that if you turned the wheel quickly on floor paint you?d get a sound like breaking wind.   Halfway through the morning the Director became aware of this and asked where it was coming from. Pete waved a mic over and (eyes sparkling - imagine it) said ?that?s Tim, my tracker.?   Long pause while the Director thought this over and came back ?If he goes to the Surgery at lunchtime do you thing he?ll be better this afternoon??  Collapse.   Great guy.

> On 18 Jan 2020, at 15:47, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I hadn?t thought it, really until reflecting upon an enjoyable career with the BBC, that it?s not dissimilar to any factory floor. OK we didn?t wear blue collar overalls, but there were still ?suits? upstairs, and myriad opportunities for more experienced ?workers? to make life miserable for junior crew.
> I was supremely lucky, being posted in early days to Crew 3, who lived in TVT and worked on most of the LE stuff originated there.
> I loved it, and the guys on the crew both camera and sound were brilliant and supportive. I?m still in touch with Eddie Stuart the #1 cameraman. We regularly did B&W Minstrels & Billy Cotton.
> I kept in touch with George Mitchell, and at a celebration party for his 80th Birthday, ran a video version of my illicit 8mm movie, but off Betacam, as I had transferred the film via a Sony Betacam 400 camera.
> Although it had been 30 years since we were on Crew 3, knowing that Senior Cameraman Eddie Stuart had married Cherry Alston - Make-up Supervisor, I managed to track Cherry down as I was in the Film Industry by then, therefore through her, Eddie. Within half an hour, I had contacted enough people to make up a crew table for the party. (Very sadly, Cherry died later, of cancer, not too long ago; Eddie has since remarried).
> George M eventually passed away, but I am still in touch with his then wife, Dot, who had been the Head Topper for a while.
>  
> In closing, I would say that time on Crew Three ranks as the best part of my career - show biz, music, glamorous ladies etc. and I am dismayed at the Corporation's attitude to dispensing with TVC.
>  
> Pat (feeling very nostalgic)
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
> From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: 17 January 2020 08:10
> To: Nick Ware <mailto:waresound at msn.com>
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Earlies
>  
> i disliked Jim and his nasty bullying ways and thought he was overrated as an operator . He had built an almost mystical reputation for himself but in truth I could name several cameramen who were just as good as him on a ped, and one or two who were better, without all the petty bullshit - the late great Pete Ware comes to mind for example. I only worked with his crew once, as I refused to get him a tea when in the canteen as I didn't like his attitude. I had been around a bit before I joined the BBC and had met his type before. OK - before the legion of Jim fans start - I know this will be seen as heresy, but that was my opinion then and it still is.
> Geoff F
>  
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200118/a9bdcf3c/attachment.html>

From geoffletch at gmail.com  Sat Jan 18 12:15:41 2020
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 18:15:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Earlies
In-Reply-To: <69840A62-C7AF-4CD2-8972-41304C4ED645@btinternet.com>
References: <870E1898-4297-4C20-85D4-42C32979955E@icloud.com>
	<5e208b37.1c69fb81.c781a.819b@mx.google.com>
	<664e2778-3ce7-8d00-7694-4e80e37a4173@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<F50F7793-54D4-4645-9EE6-2685CE7AB3A7@vincent68.plus.com>
	<5f8a478d-e5ba-b60b-9b88-7cd812129e6d@gmail.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271CD5FB6121D6063FCB190A7360@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<CAB99AB--+qK9hU500Z++gzeZKaGZfw7uRxyrc0h+iy6X04Necw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e232878.1c69fb81.e42f5.ac84@mx.google.com>
	<69840A62-C7AF-4CD2-8972-41304C4ED645@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB9jGvMvwj15u3nmpANi-y2b=nejH_0bDGK4iC1_=6vSzg@mail.gmail.com>

Pete was a great guy and the best ped man I ever saw in my 50 years in the
biz.
Geoff F

On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 at 16:25, Michael Healy <timhealy935 at btinternet.com>
wrote:

> A Pete Ware Story.
> Mid 60s School or OU prog, I?m tracking the Heron and Pete?s on the front.
> As we are rehearsing I wasn?t too gentle when repositioning and those
> who?ve done it will remember that if you turned the wheel quickly on floor
> paint you?d get a sound like breaking wind.   Halfway through the morning
> the Director became aware of this and asked where it was coming from. Pete
> waved a mic over and (eyes sparkling - imagine it) said ?that?s Tim, my
> tracker.?   Long pause while the Director thought this over and came back
> ?If he goes to the Surgery at lunchtime do you thing he?ll be better this
> afternoon??  Collapse.   Great guy.
>
> On 18 Jan 2020, at 15:47, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> I hadn?t thought it, really until reflecting upon an enjoyable career with
> the BBC, that it?s not dissimilar to any factory floor. OK we didn?t wear
> blue collar overalls, but there were still ?suits? upstairs, and myriad
> opportunities for more experienced ?workers? to make life miserable for
> junior crew.
> I was supremely lucky, being posted in early days to Crew 3, who lived in
> TVT and worked on most of the LE stuff originated there.
> I loved it, and the guys on the crew both camera and sound were brilliant
> and supportive. I?m still in touch with Eddie Stuart the #1 cameraman. We
> regularly did B&W Minstrels & Billy Cotton.
> I kept in touch with George Mitchell, and at a celebration party for his
> 80th Birthday, ran a video version of my illicit 8mm movie, but off
> Betacam, as I had transferred the film via a Sony Betacam 400 camera.
> Although it had been 30 years since we were on Crew 3, knowing that Senior
> Cameraman Eddie Stuart had married Cherry Alston - Make-up Supervisor, I
> managed to track Cherry down as I was in the Film Industry by then,
> therefore through her, Eddie. Within half an hour, I had contacted enough
> people to make up a crew table for the party. (Very sadly, Cherry died
> later, of cancer, not too long ago; Eddie has since remarried).
> George M eventually passed away, but I am still in touch with his then
> wife, Dot, who had been the Head Topper for a while.
>
> In closing, I would say that time on Crew Three ranks as the best part of
> my career - show biz, music, glamorous ladies etc. and I am dismayed at the
> Corporation's attitude to dispensing with TVC.
>
> Pat (feeling very nostalgic)
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *17 January 2020 08:10
> *To: *Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com>
> *Cc: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Earlies
>
> i disliked Jim and his nasty bullying ways and thought he was overrated as
> an operator . He had built an almost mystical reputation for himself but in
> truth I could name several cameramen who were just as good as him on a ped,
> and one or two who were better, without all the petty bullshit - the late
> great Pete Ware comes to mind for example. I only worked with his crew
> once, as I refused to get him a tea when in the canteen as I didn't like
> his attitude. I had been around a bit before I joined the BBC and had met
> his type before. OK - before the legion of Jim fans start - I know this
> will be seen as heresy, but that was my opinion then and it still is.
> Geoff F
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200118/c709b54e/attachment.html>

From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Sat Jan 18 17:55:32 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2020 23:55:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths
Message-ID: <60AB65C6-67C3-473D-B62F-92DEE6584C8B@vincent68.plus.com>

Pete told us he went out at night to piss on his tomato plants!

There was a sound guy married to a midwife who would bring home placentas that he would plant with his tomato plants.

Of course we believed them!

John V

From waresound at msn.com  Sun Jan 19 09:15:23 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 15:15:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths
In-Reply-To: <60AB65C6-67C3-473D-B62F-92DEE6584C8B@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <60AB65C6-67C3-473D-B62F-92DEE6584C8B@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Apparently, pee is 95% water and is sterile, so you could say it?s a reasonable, if rather lazy, way of watering them.
As to the placentas - if it was a sound guy telling that story it would be about a cameraman, and then it would be perfectly credible! ?
Either way, I?m just glad I?m not a tomato plant.
Cheers,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 18 Jan 2020, at 23:56, John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Pete told us he went out at night to piss on his tomato plants!
> 
> There was a sound guy married to a midwife who would bring home placentas that he would plant with his tomato plants.
> 
> Of course we believed them!
> 
> John V
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Sun Jan 19 09:29:44 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 15:29:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <60AB65C6-67C3-473D-B62F-92DEE6584C8B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <5834d7779fdave@davesound.co.uk>

In article
<VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
   Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Apparently, pee is 95% water and is sterile, so you could say it?s a
> reasonable, if rather lazy, way of watering them.

Bob Flowerdew on Gardener's Question Time is often on about pee and the
garden. Reckons it's good for the compost heap. Dunno why I listen to it
as I was born with brown fingers.

-- 
*'ome is where you 'ang your @ *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From geoffletch at gmail.com  Sun Jan 19 11:05:52 2020
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 17:05:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths
In-Reply-To: <5834d7779fdave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <60AB65C6-67C3-473D-B62F-92DEE6584C8B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5834d7779fdave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB-zU8aWjkG4Na1E91kxv4RZtK4tw=BNVB9-npCUH+NwBg@mail.gmail.com>

They used to use peein the tanning industry. Poor folks used to save
thefamoly peeup and sell it to the tanners. Hence the term "Piss poor."
Geoff F

On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 15:34, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> In article
> <
> VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
> >,
>    Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> > Apparently, pee is 95% water and is sterile, so you could say it?s a
> > reasonable, if rather lazy, way of watering them.
>
> Bob Flowerdew on Gardener's Question Time is often on about pee and the
> garden. Reckons it's good for the compost heap. Dunno why I listen to it
> as I was born with brown fingers.
>
> --
> *'ome is where you 'ang your @ *
>
>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200119/90ce3a58/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 19 11:15:40 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 17:15:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths
In-Reply-To: <CAB99AB-zU8aWjkG4Na1E91kxv4RZtK4tw=BNVB9-npCUH+NwBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <60AB65C6-67C3-473D-B62F-92DEE6584C8B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5834d7779fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAB99AB-zU8aWjkG4Na1E91kxv4RZtK4tw=BNVB9-npCUH+NwBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyH=5QnL+CZtNZa6m6HeV2GaKAaTgxjXwfrcQKkjAV6-Vg@mail.gmail.com>

I was just reading a book about mudlarking. Apparently at the Globe and
other such places when the interval came they'd pass buckets around. The
tanneries were nearby in Southwark.

B

On Sun, 19 Jan 2020, 17:06 Geoff Fletcher via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> They used to use peein the tanning industry. Poor folks used to save
> thefamoly peeup and sell it to the tanners. Hence the term "Piss poor."
> Geoff F
>
> On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 15:34, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <
>> VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
>> >,
>>    Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Apparently, pee is 95% water and is sterile, so you could say it?s a
>> > reasonable, if rather lazy, way of watering them.
>>
>> Bob Flowerdew on Gardener's Question Time is often on about pee and the
>> garden. Reckons it's good for the compost heap. Dunno why I listen to it
>> as I was born with brown fingers.
>>
>> --
>> *'ome is where you 'ang your @ *
>>
>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200119/38b0278b/attachment.html>

From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Sun Jan 19 13:33:46 2020
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 19:33:46 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths
In-Reply-To: <CAB99AB-zU8aWjkG4Na1E91kxv4RZtK4tw=BNVB9-npCUH+NwBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <60AB65C6-67C3-473D-B62F-92DEE6584C8B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5834d7779fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAB99AB-zU8aWjkG4Na1E91kxv4RZtK4tw=BNVB9-npCUH+NwBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJnc7WQMfEis0GSwBbwLW8bs-F62o_hy1Puhe8eLakrXcg@mail.gmail.com>

Urine *is* used in tanning, but I believe that the expression *piss-poor*
originated in the twentieth century. Here is a quote from World Wide Words:

... The origin is straightforward. *Piss* began to be attached to other
words during the twentieth century to intensify their meaning. Ezra Pound
invented *piss-rotten* in 1940 (distasteful or unpleasant, the first
example on record) and we?ve since had *piss-easy* (very easy),
*piss-weak* (cowardly
or pathetic), *piss-elegant* (affectedly refined, pretentious),
*piss-awful* (very
unpleasant) and other forms.

*Piss-poor* began life in a similar figurative sense for something that's
third-rate, incompetent or useless...

[more at http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pis1.htm]


My online version of the OED confirms Pound's introduction of *piss-rotten*
in 1940, and the first use of piss-poor found by the OED was in 1946
(reported in oral use).

However, one contributor on Quora refers to the use of this term in the
1920s and 1930s...
[see https://www.quora.com/Where-does-the-phrase-piss-poor-come-from]

KW



On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 17:06, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> They used to use peein the tanning industry. Poor folks used to save
> thefamoly peeup and sell it to the tanners. Hence the term "Piss poor."
> Geoff F
>
> On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 15:34, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <
>> VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
>> >,
>>    Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Apparently, pee is 95% water and is sterile, so you could say it?s a
>> > reasonable, if rather lazy, way of watering them.
>>
>> Bob Flowerdew on Gardener's Question Time is often on about pee and the
>> garden. Reckons it's good for the compost heap. Dunno why I listen to it
>> as I was born with brown fingers.
>>
>> --
>> *'ome is where you 'ang your @ *
>>
>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200119/7a8dab9f/attachment.html>

From teateatone2 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 19 13:52:37 2020
From: teateatone2 at gmail.com (Tony Grant)
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 19:52:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJnc7WQMfEis0GSwBbwLW8bs-F62o_hy1Puhe8eLakrXcg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <60AB65C6-67C3-473D-B62F-92DEE6584C8B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5834d7779fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAB99AB-zU8aWjkG4Na1E91kxv4RZtK4tw=BNVB9-npCUH+NwBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAA=qGJnc7WQMfEis0GSwBbwLW8bs-F62o_hy1Puhe8eLakrXcg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEMv0RO3paVquK-SoxEAx5jFkQYj2Nve8GfNJVc-O6HwZdd2-A@mail.gmail.com>

Always thought 'piss poor' was derived from the expression  'haven't got a
pot to piss in', or is that another Irish-ism? It's funny, here in Wales
I've come across expressions that are the same, or similar, to those I grew
up with, and have fallen into personal disuse since no one understood what
I wa saying when I started at TVC (go on, there's room for lot's of your
ribald comments now).

And when it comes to piss, my dear wife Heather insists on collecting the
odd bucket once in a while to add to our compost bins, as she's sure it's
beneficial. So, I'm eating/drinking recycled urine, albeit filtered through
the mists of time and compost. Cheers.

TeaTeaFN - Tony

On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 7:34 PM Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Urine *is* used in tanning, but I believe that the expression *piss-poor*
> originated in the twentieth century. Here is a quote from World Wide Words:
>
> ... The origin is straightforward. *Piss* began to be attached to other
> words during the twentieth century to intensify their meaning. Ezra Pound
> invented *piss-rotten* in 1940 (distasteful or unpleasant, the first
> example on record) and we?ve since had *piss-easy* (very easy),
> *piss-weak* (cowardly or pathetic), *piss-elegant* (affectedly refined,
> pretentious), *piss-awful* (very unpleasant) and other forms.
>
> *Piss-poor* began life in a similar figurative sense for something that's
> third-rate, incompetent or useless...
>
> [more at http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pis1.htm]
>
>
> My online version of the OED confirms Pound's introduction of
> *piss-rotten* in 1940, and the first use of piss-poor found by the OED
> was in 1946 (reported in oral use).
>
> However, one contributor on Quora refers to the use of this term in the
> 1920s and 1930s...
> [see https://www.quora.com/Where-does-the-phrase-piss-poor-come-from]
>
> KW
>
>
>
> On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 17:06, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> They used to use peein the tanning industry. Poor folks used to save
>> thefamoly peeup and sell it to the tanners. Hence the term "Piss poor."
>> Geoff F
>>
>> On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 15:34, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <
>> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <
>>> VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
>>> >,
>>>    Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> > Apparently, pee is 95% water and is sterile, so you could say it?s a
>>> > reasonable, if rather lazy, way of watering them.
>>>
>>> Bob Flowerdew on Gardener's Question Time is often on about pee and the
>>> garden. Reckons it's good for the compost heap. Dunno why I listen to it
>>> as I was born with brown fingers.
>>>
>>> --
>>> *'ome is where you 'ang your @ *
>>>
>>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200119/450fd227/attachment.html>

From waresound at msn.com  Sun Jan 19 14:11:15 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 20:11:15 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths
In-Reply-To: <CAB99AB-zU8aWjkG4Na1E91kxv4RZtK4tw=BNVB9-npCUH+NwBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <60AB65C6-67C3-473D-B62F-92DEE6584C8B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5834d7779fdave@davesound.co.uk>,
	<CAB99AB-zU8aWjkG4Na1E91kxv4RZtK4tw=BNVB9-npCUH+NwBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02719B10E16335103DECAEC2A7330@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

When I was a schoolboy at Wells Cathedral School, we had a wonderful chemistry master, a Dr P.C. Merriman, who used to get more than a little over-enthusiastic with some of his chemistry experiments.
One such was a project to generate phosphine gas. He told us it could be made from urine. So, he obtained a big empty oil drum, about 25, maybe 50 gallons capacity, and placed it in the senior boys? playground. Beside it, an old chair so that we could reach to pee into the 3 inch opening at the top. Boys will be boys of course, and we were used to having long distance pissing contests anyway, (the roundheads always the winners) so we found it more fun to stand back and pee as high as you could, getting your pee to descend into the opening. If nothing else, the experiment encouraged us to drink more water!
Once eventually filled, the lid was placed firmly on, and it was left to fester for several weeks in the summer sunshine. Then, came the long awaited day when he declared it fully matured and ready to test for flammability. We all stood around eagerly as he lit a taper and approached the canister. With very little effort, the lid popped off, and instantly, a huge flame rocketed upwards as the can burst violently and showered stale boy-piss on everyone in the playground!
I always wondered whether that was what he intended, and what became of P.C. Merriman in later life.
Happy days, and not so happy days,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 19 Jan 2020, at 17:06, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
They used to use peein the tanning industry. Poor folks used to save thefamoly peeup and sell it to the tanners. Hence the term "Piss poor."
Geoff F

On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 15:34, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
In article
<VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM<mailto:VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>>,
   Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> Apparently, pee is 95% water and is sterile, so you could say it?s a
> reasonable, if rather lazy, way of watering them.

Bob Flowerdew on Gardener's Question Time is often on about pee and the
garden. Reckons it's good for the compost heap. Dunno why I listen to it
as I was born with brown fingers.

--
*'ome is where you 'ang your @ *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk<mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk>     London SW 12


--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200119/5c771522/attachment.html>

From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Sun Jan 19 15:10:45 2020
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer)
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 21:10:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths
Message-ID: <6fl4aj5g3ftgfnws76gjiq6e.1579468245096@email.android.com>

Not at all P C these days!?One of the lads at TSW advised us to abide by the 6 Ps principle:? Precise Planning Prevents Piss- Poor Product!?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 19/01/2020  20:11  (GMT+00:00) To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths 
When I was a schoolboy at Wells Cathedral School, we had a wonderful chemistry master, a Dr P.C. Merriman, who used to get more than a little over-enthusiastic with some of his chemistry experiments.
One such was a project to generate phosphine gas. He told us it could be made from urine. So, he obtained a big empty oil drum, about 25, maybe 50 gallons capacity, and placed it in the senior boys? playground. Beside it, an old chair so that we could
 reach to pee into the 3 inch opening at the top. Boys will be boys of course, and we were used to having long distance pissing contests anyway, (the roundheads always the winners) so we found it more fun to stand back and pee as high as you could, getting
 your pee to descend into the opening. If nothing else, the experiment encouraged us to drink more water!
Once eventually filled, the lid was placed firmly on, and it was left to fester for several weeks in the summer sunshine. Then, came the long awaited day when he declared it fully matured and ready to test for flammability. We all stood around eagerly
 as he lit a taper and approached the canister. With very little effort, the lid popped off, and instantly, a huge flame rocketed upwards as the can burst violently and showered stale boy-piss on everyone in the playground!
I always wondered whether that was what he intended, and what became of P.C. Merriman in later life.
Happy days, and not so happy days,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 19 Jan 2020, at 17:06, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:




?

They used to use peein the tanning industry. Poor folks used to save thefamoly peeup and sell it to the tanners. Hence the term "Piss poor."

Geoff F


On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 15:34, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


In article
<VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
? ?Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Apparently, pee is 95% water and is sterile, so you could say it?s a
> reasonable, if rather lazy, way of watering them.

Bob Flowerdew on Gardener's Question Time is often on about pee and the
garden. Reckons it's good for the compost heap. Dunno why I listen to it
as I was born with brown fingers.

-- 
*'ome is where you 'ang your @ *

? ? Dave Plowman? ? ?dave at davesound.co.uk? ? ?London SW 12


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200119/581c8891/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Mon Jan 20 04:30:55 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 10:30:55 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths
In-Reply-To: <CAA7MLyH=5QnL+CZtNZa6m6HeV2GaKAaTgxjXwfrcQKkjAV6-Vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <60AB65C6-67C3-473D-B62F-92DEE6584C8B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5834d7779fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAB99AB-zU8aWjkG4Na1E91kxv4RZtK4tw=BNVB9-npCUH+NwBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAA7MLyH=5QnL+CZtNZa6m6HeV2GaKAaTgxjXwfrcQKkjAV6-Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58353ff331dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article
<CAA7MLyH=5QnL+CZtNZa6m6HeV2GaKAaTgxjXwfrcQKkjAV6-Vg at mail.gmail.com>,
   Bernard Newnham <bernie833 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was just reading a book about mudlarking. Apparently at the Globe and
> other such places when the interval came they'd pass buckets around. The
> tanneries were nearby in Southwark.

One other famous one is quite close to here. And I can remember it,
although long since gone and now housing. Connolly leather of Rolls Royce
etc fame. On the river Wandle in Collier's Wood. At one time said to be
the most polluted river in the land. Local joke was Young's got their
water from it to make their beer, as it joins the Thames beside their
(once) brewery in Wandsworth.

-- 
*Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Mon Jan 20 09:31:09 2020
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 15:31:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths
In-Reply-To: <58353ff331dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <60AB65C6-67C3-473D-B62F-92DEE6584C8B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5834d7779fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAB99AB-zU8aWjkG4Na1E91kxv4RZtK4tw=BNVB9-npCUH+NwBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAA7MLyH=5QnL+CZtNZa6m6HeV2GaKAaTgxjXwfrcQKkjAV6-Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<58353ff331dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <33677BA6-3BB9-415C-AB6B-87EDA1DA9D54@btinternet.com>

Hi Dave,
	In the 60s and onwards Andy Hunter and I used to drink in the ?Crane,? a Young?s pub in Armoury Way Wandsworth, there was a lead smelting works beside it on the bank of the River Wandle. 

	Brings a whole new meaning to a pint of ?heavy?!
Barry.



On 20 Jan 2020, at 10:30, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> In article
> <CAA7MLyH=5QnL+CZtNZa6m6HeV2GaKAaTgxjXwfrcQKkjAV6-Vg at mail.gmail.com>,
>   Bernard Newnham <bernie833 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I was just reading a book about mudlarking. Apparently at the Globe and
>> other such places when the interval came they'd pass buckets around. The
>> tanneries were nearby in Southwark.
> 
> One other famous one is quite close to here. And I can remember it,
> although long since gone and now housing. Connolly leather of Rolls Royce
> etc fame. On the river Wandle in Collier's Wood. At one time said to be
> the most polluted river in the land. Local joke was Young's got their
> water from it to make their beer, as it joins the Thames beside their
> (once) brewery in Wandsworth.
> 
> -- 
> *Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?
> 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200120/74ca4e5c/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Mon Jan 20 09:36:52 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 15:36:52 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths
In-Reply-To: <33677BA6-3BB9-415C-AB6B-87EDA1DA9D54@btinternet.com>
References: <60AB65C6-67C3-473D-B62F-92DEE6584C8B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5834d7779fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAB99AB-zU8aWjkG4Na1E91kxv4RZtK4tw=BNVB9-npCUH+NwBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAA7MLyH=5QnL+CZtNZa6m6HeV2GaKAaTgxjXwfrcQKkjAV6-Vg@mail.gmail.com>
	<58353ff331dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<33677BA6-3BB9-415C-AB6B-87EDA1DA9D54@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <58355bf561dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <33677BA6-3BB9-415C-AB6B-87EDA1DA9D54 at btinternet.com>,
   Barry Bonner <barrybonner119 at btinternet.com> wrote:
> Hi Dave, 	In the 60s and onwards Andy Hunter and I used to drink in the
> ?Crane,? a Young?s pub in Armoury Way Wandsworth,

Yup - and I joined you both for a pint there on many occasions, being on
the way home. And that other pub nearer to Andy's place. Happy daze.


> there was a lead
> smelting works beside it on the bank of the River Wandle. 

> 	Brings a whole new meaning to a pint of ?heavy?!


;-)

-- 
*If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From john at epi-centre.com  Mon Jan 20 12:02:55 2020
From: john at epi-centre.com (John Henshall)
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 18:02:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] TS card
In-Reply-To: <538DD814-0FAC-4DA3-998A-A220709EF8AF@epi-centre.com>
References: <538DD814-0FAC-4DA3-998A-A220709EF8AF@epi-centre.com>
Message-ID: <E66BB69E-93F6-4D0E-BA4C-CC472A2AD052@epi-centre.com>

So maybe only John Whatton is prepared to admit he received a ?Tough Shit? card from Tony Abbey? Or maybe the rest of you were just too nice ?

Abbey asked my father to design the card, which he sent if you complained, for example about the crew you were being sent to.

I never received one, probably only because my dad designed it. But I know some people did, back in the day.

Can you imagine if ?human resources? sent anyone such a think in today?s politically correct era?

Cheers, John Henshall


> On 16 Jan 2020, at 19:13, John Henshall <john at epi-centre.com> wrote:
> 
> Did any of you ever receive one of these A6 size cards from Tony Abbey? He would just put A.A. in the box.
> If so, why did you get it?
> Cheers, John Henshall.
> 
> <Tony Abbey TS card.jpg>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200120/ee96da47/attachment.html>

From timhum001 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 20 12:14:51 2020
From: timhum001 at gmail.com (Tim Humphries)
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 18:14:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths
In-Reply-To: <6fl4aj5g3ftgfnws76gjiq6e.1579468245096@email.android.com>
References: <6fl4aj5g3ftgfnws76gjiq6e.1579468245096@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <31d83854-0d18-e76d-77f9-472158fe2ddb@gmail.com>

And the military version, Seven P's? Proper Planning and Preparation 
Prevents Piss Poor Performance

On 19/01/2020 21:10, vernon.dyer via Tech1 wrote:
>
>
> Not at all P C these days!
>
> One of the lads at TSW advised us to abide by the 6 Ps principle:? 
> Precise Planning Prevents Piss- Poor Product!
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: 19/01/2020 20:11 (GMT+00:00)
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pete Ware and Urban Myths
>
> When I was a schoolboy at Wells Cathedral School, we had a wonderful 
> chemistry master, a Dr P.C. Merriman, who used to get more than a 
> little over-enthusiastic with some of his chemistry experiments.
> One such was a project to generate phosphine gas. He told us it could 
> be made from urine. So, he obtained a big empty oil drum, about 25, 
> maybe 50 gallons capacity, and placed it in the senior boys? 
> playground. Beside it, an old chair so that we could reach to pee into 
> the 3 inch opening at the top. Boys will be boys of course, and we 
> were used to having long distance pissing contests anyway, (the 
> roundheads always the winners) so we found it more fun to stand back 
> and pee as high as you could, getting your pee to descend into the 
> opening. If nothing else, the experiment encouraged us to drink more 
> water!
> Once eventually filled, the lid was placed firmly on, and it was left 
> to fester for several weeks in the summer sunshine. Then, came the 
> long awaited day when he declared it fully matured and ready to test 
> for flammability. We all stood around eagerly as he lit a taper and 
> approached the canister. With very little effort, the lid popped off, 
> and instantly, a huge flame rocketed upwards as the can burst 
> violently and showered stale boy-piss on everyone in the playground!
> I always wondered whether that was what he intended, and what became 
> of P.C. Merriman in later life.
> Happy days, and not so happy days,
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>> On 19 Jan 2020, at 17:06, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> They used to use peein the tanning industry. Poor folks used to save 
>> thefamoly peeup and sell it to the tanners. Hence the term "Piss poor."
>> Geoff F
>>
>> On Sun, 19 Jan 2020 at 15:34, Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>     In article
>>     <VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
>>     <mailto:VI1P192MB02715D06B059B26BE212A134A7330 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>>,
>>     ? ?Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>     <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>     > Apparently, pee is 95% water and is sterile, so you could say
>>     it?s a
>>     > reasonable, if rather lazy, way of watering them.
>>
>>     Bob Flowerdew on Gardener's Question Time is often on about pee
>>     and the
>>     garden. Reckons it's good for the compost heap. Dunno why I
>>     listen to it
>>     as I was born with brown fingers.
>>
>>     -- 
>>     *'ome is where you 'ang your @ *
>>
>>     ? ? Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk
>>     <mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk> ?London SW 12
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Tech1 mailing list
>>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200120/a0e1489b/attachment.html>

From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Wed Jan 22 05:52:53 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 11:52:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
Message-ID: <6F27AB83-DCC8-4EBF-BB99-40C652D81AA2@vincent68.plus.com>

My 20 year old iMac is finally showing its age.It freezes when it tries to get on the internet. The Plusnet support guys (really impressive) did come up with some solutions but they did not work. I?m going to bite the bullet and replace it! (Sorry all you PC chaps)
So any advice from any closet Mac user would be welcome. I?ll keep your identities secret!
I?m looking at a 21.5 midrange model and getting it fitted with a SSD drive.

John V

Sent from my iPad


From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Wed Jan 22 06:44:41 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 12:44:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <6F27AB83-DCC8-4EBF-BB99-40C652D81AA2@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <6F27AB83-DCC8-4EBF-BB99-40C652D81AA2@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3@icloud.com>

Get as much RAM as you can afford is the basic advice. What version of MacOS are you running? The main gotcha is that the new iMacs are 64 bit and a lot of old software will not run without being upgraded so be prepared to have to purchase repacements.

? 
Graeme Wall


> On 22 Jan 2020, at 11:52, John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> My 20 year old iMac is finally showing its age.It freezes when it tries to get on the internet. The Plusnet support guys (really impressive) did come up with some solutions but they did not work. I?m going to bite the bullet and replace it! (Sorry all you PC chaps)
> So any advice from any closet Mac user would be welcome. I?ll keep your identities secret!
> I?m looking at a 21.5 midrange model and getting it fitted with a SSD drive.
> 
> John V
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dave at davesound.co.uk  Wed Jan 22 07:34:25 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 13:34:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3@icloud.com>
References: <6F27AB83-DCC8-4EBF-BB99-40C652D81AA2@vincent68.plus.com>
	<79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <5836586be8dave@davesound.co.uk>

Not being a Mac person, is there not a virtual app that allows you to run
legacy progs? 


In article <79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3 at icloud.com>,
   Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Get as much RAM as you can afford is the basic advice. What version of
> MacOS are you running? The main gotcha is that the new iMacs are 64 bit
> and a lot of old software will not run without being upgraded so be
> prepared to have to purchase repacements.

-- 
*Windows will never cease *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From tonys at tonyscott.org.uk  Wed Jan 22 07:52:57 2020
From: tonys at tonyscott.org.uk (Tony Scott)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 13:52:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <5836586be8dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <6F27AB83-DCC8-4EBF-BB99-40C652D81AA2@vincent68.plus.com>
	<79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3@icloud.com>
	<5836586be8dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAOw_4rbmp5PDYZKc3vJghL4wYyTqPRZpekKfmh4KjUMjQEuh2A@mail.gmail.com>

No .

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020, 13:46 Dave Plowman via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Not being a Mac person, is there not a virtual app that allows you to run
> legacy progs?
>
>
> In article <79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3 at icloud.com>,
>    Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> > Get as much RAM as you can afford is the basic advice. What version of
> > MacOS are you running? The main gotcha is that the new iMacs are 64 bit
> > and a lot of old software will not run without being upgraded so be
> > prepared to have to purchase repacements.
>
> --
> *Windows will never cease *
>
>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200122/c8769673/attachment.html>

From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Jan 22 08:07:25 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 14:07:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3@icloud.com>
References: <6F27AB83-DCC8-4EBF-BB99-40C652D81AA2@vincent68.plus.com>
	<79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <DF313EF8-9E98-4CF6-8150-CB98BDBE87A4@me.com>

It's hard to offer specific advice about Macs if you haven't said what you intend to use it for.  My hunch is that you're not using it for demanding work, such as video editing or graphics, because if you were, a twenty year old Mac would long ago have been struggling to keep up.  Therefore if you're doing general purpose tasks, pretty well any modern Mac should suit your purposes,Your choice would be governed more by form factor and budget and you should be good for another 10-20 years.

SSD drives are great, but affordable ones generally don't have the capacity of traditional drives, so you might need an external hard drive for storage of large files.  It's much cheaper to get an external drive than to specify a larger factory fitted drive when you buy it.The basic idea is to keep applications and system software on the SSD with most documents and files on the external drive.  The application and system benefit from the speed of the SSD drive, while the documents and files work just fine on the external drive.

The built-in Time Machine is a really excellent back-up system and needs it's own dedicated external hard drive.  It requires no intervention from the user and you can easily restore any file from any date back to when you first started using it.  I've had Time Machine hard drives fail before now, so I now use three bare external drives in cheap silicone covers along with a drop-in adaptor to connect it to the Mac.  Each day, I lift out the current drive ( maybe labelled A ) and put in drive B, then tomorrow, Drive C replaces drive B.  It means that all my data is not only backed up, but backed up thrice and with negligible effort on my part.  If one drive fails, I've still got two backups. CPC sell recertified Hitachi SATA 1TB drives for around ?27 each and they have proved to be more reliable than more expensive drives which I've previously bought.  They also feel much more hefty compared to my other drives, which isn't much of a technical endorsement, but does tend to inspire confidence that they might be built to last.  If you're already using Time Machine, the Time Machine back-ip can be used to set up your new Mac.  It might take a few hours to automatically transfer everything, but your new Mac will look and feel just like your old one,with everything in it's usual place but suddenly working blindingly fast.

If you want to be ultra cautious, it's also worth having yet another hard drive for a proper clone type backup of your entire system and to regularly clone it ( I do it monthly ).

With regard to your existing applications, as Graham said, new Macs use 64 bit CPUs and old software may need to be replaced.  Some of my older applications that are 64 bit no longer work on the newest Macs because they aren't compatible with the current versions of the operating system, so you might need to replace more applications than you imagined.

If you used to use Photoshop, try Pixelmator instead.  It's written and optimised especially for the Mac and is very powerful, but easy to use.  It's amazingly cheap ( ?30, or ?40 for the pro version ) and they keep releasing free updates long after you bought it.  

I've got an iMac which is just over ten years old and still going strong and in daily use.  Nearly every Mac I've owned has lasted for at least that long and although they keep working, they will no longer run the latest applications, or properly support newer devices.  I'm thinking of replacing my iMac with a Mac mini and an external monitor, but as it's not urgent, I will wait and see if anything interesting is released this year.  We're quite close to the point where new Macs could use Apple's ARM processors and as I don't run anything which requires Intel support, I'm quite attracted to that idea, but as a  Mac users since 1989, I've been around long enough to know that there are always rumours of something amazing in the near future, so you just have to jump in and buy when you know what you want, inevitably to find something better is released the following month. If you're after a model which has been out for a while and you want so save a bit of money, Apple offers refurbished Macs on their web site, often for about 15% below the usual price.  I've bought a few of them over the years and each one has been perfect, some have turned out to be a higher spec than advertised too.

Alan Taylor




On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 12:44, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Get as much RAM as you can afford is the basic advice. What version of MacOS are you running? The main gotcha is that the new iMacs are 64 bit and a lot of old software will not run without being upgraded so be prepared to have to purchase repacements.
> 
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
>> On 22 Jan 2020, at 11:52, John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> My 20 year old iMac is finally showing its age.It freezes when it tries to get on the internet. The Plusnet support guys (really impressive) did come up with some solutions but they did not work. I?m going to bite the bullet and replace it! (Sorry all you PC chaps)
>> So any advice from any closet Mac user would be welcome. I?ll keep your identities secret!
>> I?m looking at a 21.5 midrange model and getting it fitted with a SSD drive.
>> 
>> John V
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Jan 22 08:30:35 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 14:30:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <CAOw_4rbmp5PDYZKc3vJghL4wYyTqPRZpekKfmh4KjUMjQEuh2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6F27AB83-DCC8-4EBF-BB99-40C652D81AA2@vincent68.plus.com>
	<79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3@icloud.com>
	<5836586be8dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAOw_4rbmp5PDYZKc3vJghL4wYyTqPRZpekKfmh4KjUMjQEuh2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7647073E-95F2-442A-AF18-C201AD9A58B3@me.com>

Apple used to offer a free application called Rosetta which did what you describe, it emulated the PPC CPUs when Macs switched to Intel CPUs, but it is no longer supported or available as it was only intended to be used during a transition period of several years.

One of my biggest disappointments with Macs is that in the quest to move forwards all the time, some old applications are no longer supported by the manufacturers and can no longer be run on current Macs.

I used to design equipment using Freehand, which at the time was the leading professional vector graphics application before it was bought by Adobe and killed off.  I could use that one application for everything from designing simple PCBs ( and print them using a laser printer ), create drilling templates for front panels, draw schematic diagrams, document everything and even produce promotional material.  Unfortunately all that data is in a proprietary format which can't be opened by anything else so I keep an old MacBook which still runs Freehand and can open those files to print them.  Whenever I need to revisit one of those old projects, I convert it's documents to PDF format so that I will never have to rely on that old MacBook to read those particular files again.  Fortunately Macs generally keep running for decades and even my ancient PowerBook 1400 from 1997 still starts up perfectly.

Alan Taylor



On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 13:52, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> No . 
> 
> On Wed, 22 Jan 2020, 13:46 Dave Plowman via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Not being a Mac person, is there not a virtual app that allows you to run
> legacy progs? 
> 
> 
> In article <79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3 at icloud.com>,
>    Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> > Get as much RAM as you can afford is the basic advice. What version of
> > MacOS are you running? The main gotcha is that the new iMacs are 64 bit
> > and a lot of old software will not run without being upgraded so be
> > prepared to have to purchase repacements.
> 
> -- 
> *Windows will never cease *
> 
>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200122/baef4423/attachment.html>

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Wed Jan 22 09:00:42 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 15:00:42 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <7647073E-95F2-442A-AF18-C201AD9A58B3@me.com>
References: <6F27AB83-DCC8-4EBF-BB99-40C652D81AA2@vincent68.plus.com>
	<79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3@icloud.com>
	<5836586be8dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAOw_4rbmp5PDYZKc3vJghL4wYyTqPRZpekKfmh4KjUMjQEuh2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7647073E-95F2-442A-AF18-C201AD9A58B3@me.com>
Message-ID: <c5c4085d-6337-01c3-1875-494b072b0a46@chriswoolf.co.uk>

You have neatly described the inherent problems with proprietary systems 
such as Apple's.

Hence why the more open approach of Windows, and the wholly open one of 
Linux, are so much more interesting to anyone doing projects that aren't 
in the mundane camp.

The "superb build quality" of Apple is a good slogan, but not entirely 
borne out by the facts. You don't have to search very far on the web to 
find a great many unhappy examples, in terms of both longevity and 
design. True, there are a lot of cut-price Windows machines that are 
cheap and poor, but if you pay sensible money there are brilliant, fast 
and powerful engines that owe nothing to Apple.

Chris Woolf

On 22/01/2020 14:30, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> Apple used to offer a free application called Rosetta which did what 
> you describe, it emulated the PPC CPUs when Macs switched to Intel 
> CPUs, but it is no longer supported or available as it was only 
> intended to be used during a transition period of several years.
>
> One of my biggest disappointments with Macs is that in the quest to 
> move forwards all the time, some old applications are no longer 
> supported by the manufacturers and can no longer be run on current Macs.
>
> I used to design equipment using Freehand, which at the time was the 
> leading professional vector graphics application before it was bought 
> by Adobe and killed off. ?I could use that one application for 
> everything from designing simple PCBs ( and print them using a laser 
> printer ), create drilling templates for front panels, draw schematic 
> diagrams, document everything and even produce promotional material. 
> ?Unfortunately all that data is in a proprietary format which can't be 
> opened by anything else so I keep an old MacBook which still runs 
> Freehand and can open those files to print them. ?Whenever I need to 
> revisit one of those old projects, I convert it's documents to PDF 
> format so that I will never have to rely on that old MacBook to read 
> those particular files again. ?Fortunately Macs generally keep running 
> for decades and even my ancient PowerBook 1400 from 1997 still starts 
> up perfectly.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
> On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 13:52, Tony Scott via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>> No .
>>
>> On Wed, 22 Jan 2020, 13:46 Dave Plowman via Tech1, 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>     Not being a Mac person, is there not a virtual app that allows
>>     you to run
>>     legacy progs?
>>
>>
>>     In article <79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3 at icloud.com
>>     <mailto:79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3 at icloud.com>>,
>>     ? ?Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>     <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>     > Get as much RAM as you can afford is the basic advice. What
>>     version of
>>     > MacOS are you running? The main gotcha is that the new iMacs
>>     are 64 bit
>>     > and a lot of old software will not run without being upgraded so be
>>     > prepared to have to purchase repacements.
>>
>>     -- 
>>     *Windows will never cease *
>>
>>     ? ? Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk
>>     <mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk> ? ?London SW 12
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Tech1 mailing list
>>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200122/b5f10826/attachment.html>

From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Jan 22 10:11:50 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 16:11:50 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <c5c4085d-6337-01c3-1875-494b072b0a46@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <6F27AB83-DCC8-4EBF-BB99-40C652D81AA2@vincent68.plus.com>
	<79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3@icloud.com>
	<5836586be8dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAOw_4rbmp5PDYZKc3vJghL4wYyTqPRZpekKfmh4KjUMjQEuh2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7647073E-95F2-442A-AF18-C201AD9A58B3@me.com>
	<c5c4085d-6337-01c3-1875-494b072b0a46@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5ED96A83-D1BD-4CFA-930B-8512173B8251@me.com>

Unfortunately there is little that can be done to get ongoing support for third party software on any platform when a rival company acquires an established product, gets to own all the IP rights, decides to kill it off in order to prevent competition with their product, ceases support for it and refuses to allow others to develop products using those proprietary formats. Other vector graphics applications remain available, but as far as Freehand is concerned, what many regard as the original vector graphics application has been killed off and buried.

Alan Taylor




On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 15:00, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> You have neatly described the inherent problems with proprietary systems such as Apple's. 
> Hence why the more open approach of Windows, and the wholly open one of Linux, are so much more interesting to anyone doing projects that aren't in the mundane camp. 
> The "superb build quality" of Apple is a good slogan, but not entirely borne out by the facts. You don't have to search very far on the web to find a great many unhappy examples, in terms of both longevity and design. True, there are a lot of cut-price Windows machines that are cheap and poor, but if you pay sensible money there are brilliant, fast and powerful engines that owe nothing to Apple.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> On 22/01/2020 14:30, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> Apple used to offer a free application called Rosetta which did what you describe, it emulated the PPC CPUs when Macs switched to Intel CPUs, but it is no longer supported or available as it was only intended to be used during a transition period of several years.
>> 
>> One of my biggest disappointments with Macs is that in the quest to move forwards all the time, some old applications are no longer supported by the manufacturers and can no longer be run on current Macs.
>> 
>> I used to design equipment using Freehand, which at the time was the leading professional vector graphics application before it was bought by Adobe and killed off.  I could use that one application for everything from designing simple PCBs ( and         print them using a laser printer ), create drilling templates for front panels, draw schematic diagrams, document everything and even produce promotional material.  Unfortunately all that data is in a proprietary format which can't be opened by anything else so I keep an old MacBook which still runs Freehand and can open those files to print them.  Whenever I need to revisit one of those old projects, I convert it's documents to PDF format so that I will never have to rely on that old MacBook to read those particular files again.  Fortunately Macs generally keep running for decades and even my ancient PowerBook 1400 from 1997 still starts up perfectly.
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 13:52, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> No . 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, 22 Jan 2020, 13:46 Dave Plowman via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Not being a Mac person, is there not a virtual app that allows you to run
>>> legacy progs? 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In article <79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3 at icloud.com>,
>>>    Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> > Get as much RAM as you can afford is the basic advice. What version of
>>> > MacOS are you running? The main gotcha is that the new iMacs are 64 bit
>>> > and a lot of old software will not run without being upgraded so be
>>> > prepared to have to purchase repacements.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> *Windows will never cease *
>>> 
>>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200122/4bd05070/attachment.html>

From relong at btinternet.com  Wed Jan 22 11:37:24 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2020 17:37:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <5ED96A83-D1BD-4CFA-930B-8512173B8251@me.com>
References: <6F27AB83-DCC8-4EBF-BB99-40C652D81AA2@vincent68.plus.com>
	<79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3@icloud.com>
	<5836586be8dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAOw_4rbmp5PDYZKc3vJghL4wYyTqPRZpekKfmh4KjUMjQEuh2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7647073E-95F2-442A-AF18-C201AD9A58B3@me.com>
	<c5c4085d-6337-01c3-1875-494b072b0a46@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5ED96A83-D1BD-4CFA-930B-8512173B8251@me.com>
Message-ID: <1B83A1FA-71FF-48BB-B74B-4063C07D676C@btinternet.com>

I favour Logics Waveburner for Classic Music CD production
Its no longer supported by the 64 bit IMacs
Its easy to use (as an ex tape editor) and has a wonderful Space Designer and Delay Designer for verbs and delays and an excellent  adaptive limiter, all I need for 2 track stereo acoustic production.
I haven?t found a better alternative yet and time is running out.

Roger

> On 22 Jan 2020, at 16:11, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately there is little that can be done to get ongoing support for third party software on any platform when a rival company acquires an established product, gets to own all the IP rights, decides to kill it off in order to prevent competition with their product, ceases support for it and refuses to allow others to develop products using those proprietary formats. Other vector graphics applications remain available, but as far as Freehand is concerned, what many regard as the original vector graphics application has been killed off and buried.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 15:00, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
>> You have neatly described the inherent problems with proprietary systems such as Apple's. 
>> 
>> Hence why the more open approach of Windows, and the wholly open one of Linux, are so much more interesting to anyone doing projects that aren't in the mundane camp. 
>> 
>> The "superb build quality" of Apple is a good slogan, but not entirely borne out by the facts. You don't have to search very far on the web to find a great many unhappy examples, in terms of both longevity and design. True, there are a lot of cut-price Windows machines that are cheap and poor, but if you pay sensible money there are brilliant, fast and powerful engines that owe nothing to Apple.
>> 
>> Chris Woolf
>> 
>> On 22/01/2020 14:30, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Apple used to offer a free application called Rosetta which did what you describe, it emulated the PPC CPUs when Macs switched to Intel CPUs, but it is no longer supported or available as it was only intended to be used during a transition period of several years.
>>> 
>>> One of my biggest disappointments with Macs is that in the quest to move forwards all the time, some old applications are no longer supported by the manufacturers and can no longer be run on current Macs.
>>> 
>>> I used to design equipment using Freehand, which at the time was the leading professional vector graphics application before it was bought by Adobe and killed off.  I could use that one application for everything from designing simple PCBs ( and print them using a laser printer ), create drilling templates for front panels, draw schematic diagrams, document everything and even produce promotional material.  Unfortunately all that data is in a proprietary format which can't be opened by anything else so I keep an old MacBook which still runs Freehand and can open those files to print them.  Whenever I need to revisit one of those old projects, I convert it's documents to PDF format so that I will never have to rely on that old MacBook to read those particular files again.  Fortunately Macs generally keep running for decades and even my ancient PowerBook 1400 from 1997 still starts up perfectly.
>>> 
>>> Alan Taylor
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 13:52, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> No . 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 22 Jan 2020, 13:46 Dave Plowman via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>> Not being a Mac person, is there not a virtual app that allows you to run
>>>> legacy progs? 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> In article <79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3 at icloud.com <mailto:79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3 at icloud.com>>,
>>>>    Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>> > Get as much RAM as you can afford is the basic advice. What version of
>>>> > MacOS are you running? The main gotcha is that the new iMacs are 64 bit
>>>> > and a lot of old software will not run without being upgraded so be
>>>> > prepared to have to purchase repacements.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> *Windows will never cease *
>>>> 
>>>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk <mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk>     London SW 12
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> 
>>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200122/f6401fca/attachment.html>

From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Wed Jan 22 22:29:04 2020
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 04:29:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <1B83A1FA-71FF-48BB-B74B-4063C07D676C@btinternet.com>
References: <6F27AB83-DCC8-4EBF-BB99-40C652D81AA2@vincent68.plus.com>
	<79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3@icloud.com>
	<5836586be8dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAOw_4rbmp5PDYZKc3vJghL4wYyTqPRZpekKfmh4KjUMjQEuh2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7647073E-95F2-442A-AF18-C201AD9A58B3@me.com>
	<c5c4085d-6337-01c3-1875-494b072b0a46@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5ED96A83-D1BD-4CFA-930B-8512173B8251@me.com>
	<1B83A1FA-71FF-48BB-B74B-4063C07D676C@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with most of the comments that have been made about Macs. However,
I must pass on this warning. Do not rely on Time Machine for backups.

A search on the internet will quickly reveal many furious users of Time
Machine. The idea of being able to revert to how the computer was on
various dates is very useful, and the software display is excellent. But
many users have found that, although the system appears to be working just
as it should, it is doing no such thing. When a "backup" is retrieved, they
find that the files contain no data and are, therefore, useless.

I have personal experience of this problem. I set up my wife's Time Machine
to backup her MacBook Pro on an AirPort Time Capsule when Apple recalled
the MacBook to replace its battery. While the MacBook was with Apple, we
found that most of the files that appeared to have been backed up were, in
fact, empty. I then searched the internet for information and found that we
were by no means alone. Although the Time Capsule has been discontinued,
there are still ways of using Time Machine, and these may be OK. The
problem we had was that the Time Machine software gave no indication that a
backup attempt has not been successful. Little wonder then that many
instructions for using Time Capsule recommend the use of a conventional
additional backup, or checking, from time to time, that the backup files on
the Time Capsule are still OK (too bad if they are not!). I have attached a
document containing relevant notes, comments and links that I found on the
internet.

For reliable incremental backups, I use and recommend Carbon Copy Cloner. I
have made a clone of my main hard drive on an external hard drive and
update it regularly. If anything goes wrong with the main drive, I can boot
from the clone and continue work.

On the subject of old software not working on a new Mac, it is often
possible to use the software by installing it on a separate hard-disk
partition containing an earlier version of the system software. Of course,
this will not solve the 32/64-bit problem.

KW

On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at 17:37, Roger E Long via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> I favour Logics Waveburner for Classic Music CD production
> Its no longer supported by the 64 bit IMacs
> Its easy to use (as an ex tape editor) and has a wonderful Space Designer
> and Delay Designer for verbs and delays and an excellent  adaptive limiter,
> all I need for 2 track stereo acoustic production.
> I haven?t found a better alternative yet and time is running out.
>
> Roger
>
> On 22 Jan 2020, at 16:11, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately there is little that can be done to get ongoing support for
> third party software on any platform when a rival company acquires an
> established product, gets to own all the IP rights, decides to kill it off
> in order to prevent competition with their product, ceases support for it
> and refuses to allow others to develop products using those proprietary
> formats. Other vector graphics applications remain available, but as far as
> Freehand is concerned, what many regard as the original vector graphics
> application has been killed off and buried.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
>
> On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 15:00, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> You have neatly described the inherent problems with proprietary systems
> such as Apple's.
>
> Hence why the more open approach of Windows, and the wholly open one of
> Linux, are so much more interesting to anyone doing projects that aren't in
> the mundane camp.
>
> The "superb build quality" of Apple is a good slogan, but not entirely
> borne out by the facts. You don't have to search very far on the web to
> find a great many unhappy examples, in terms of both longevity and design.
> True, there are a lot of cut-price Windows machines that are cheap and
> poor, but if you pay sensible money there are brilliant, fast and powerful
> engines that owe nothing to Apple.
>
> Chris Woolf
> On 22/01/2020 14:30, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Apple used to offer a free application called Rosetta which did what you
> describe, it emulated the PPC CPUs when Macs switched to Intel CPUs, but it
> is no longer supported or available as it was only intended to be used
> during a transition period of several years.
>
> One of my biggest disappointments with Macs is that in the quest to move
> forwards all the time, some old applications are no longer supported by the
> manufacturers and can no longer be run on current Macs.
>
> I used to design equipment using Freehand, which at the time was the
> leading professional vector graphics application before it was bought by
> Adobe and killed off.  I could use that one application for everything from
> designing simple PCBs ( and print them using a laser printer ), create
> drilling templates for front panels, draw schematic diagrams, document
> everything and even produce promotional material.  Unfortunately all that
> data is in a proprietary format which can't be opened by anything else so I
> keep an old MacBook which still runs Freehand and can open those files to
> print them.  Whenever I need to revisit one of those old projects, I
> convert it's documents to PDF format so that I will never have to rely on
> that old MacBook to read those particular files again.  Fortunately Macs
> generally keep running for decades and even my ancient PowerBook 1400 from
> 1997 still starts up perfectly.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
> On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 13:52, Tony Scott via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> No .
>
> On Wed, 22 Jan 2020, 13:46 Dave Plowman via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Not being a Mac person, is there not a virtual app that allows you to run
>> legacy progs?
>>
>>
>> In article <79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3 at icloud.com>,
>>    Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Get as much RAM as you can afford is the basic advice. What version of
>> > MacOS are you running? The main gotcha is that the new iMacs are 64 bit
>> > and a lot of old software will not run without being upgraded so be
>> > prepared to have to purchase repacements.
>>
>> --
>> *Windows will never cease *
>>
>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200123/d9b2be21/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Time Machine Problems.rtf
Type: text/rtf
Size: 5246 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200123/d9b2be21/attachment.bin>

From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Jan 23 01:42:33 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 07:42:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6855B62F-B342-4710-A8D4-25B310BFF955@me.com>

I too encountered the problem of a Time Capsule failing to work properly when I needed it. That?s why I ended up using three bare drives and a drop-in adaptor.  By rotating the drive used each day, I can never lose more than one day of back ups.  I?ve been doing this for many years now with back ups for multiple Macs and have had an occasional failure, but the other two drives have come to the rescue. My experience has been that multiple WD drives have failed and one Seagate. The Hitachi drives have all kept working perfectly, some for well over a decade. 

Agreed about CCC too, it works well and is easy to use.  It?s the best one to use, but just make sure you regularly run it. I set repeating reminders in my calendar because I?m crap at remembering such things.

There are some files which are especially important to me, mainly photographs and some financial files. Once in a while I copy them to an encrypted thumb drive which is kept by a relative who lives nearby, so that there is an off-site copy in case of some catastrophe at home.  I keep a similar thumb drive for them. 

Alan Taylor


> On 23 Jan 2020, at 04:29, Keith Wicks <keithwicksuk at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I agree with most of the comments that have been made about Macs. However, I must pass on this warning. Do not rely on Time Machine for backups. 
> 
> A search on the internet will quickly reveal many furious users of Time Machine. The idea of being able to revert to how the computer was on various dates is very useful, and the software display is excellent. But many users have found that, although the system appears to be working just as it should, it is doing no such thing. When a "backup" is retrieved, they find that the files contain no data and are, therefore, useless. 
> 
> I have personal experience of this problem. I set up my wife's Time Machine to backup her MacBook Pro on an AirPort Time Capsule when Apple recalled the MacBook to replace its battery. While the MacBook was with Apple, we found that most of the files that appeared to have been backed up were, in fact, empty. I then searched the internet for information and found that we were by no means alone. Although the Time Capsule has been discontinued, there are still ways of using Time Machine, and these may be OK. The problem we had was that the Time Machine software gave no indication that a backup attempt has not been successful. Little wonder then that many instructions for using Time Capsule recommend the use of a conventional additional backup, or checking, from time to time, that the backup files on the Time Capsule are still OK (too bad if they are not!). I have attached a document containing relevant notes, comments and links that I found on the internet.
> 
> For reliable incremental backups, I use and recommend Carbon Copy Cloner. I have made a clone of my main hard drive on an external hard drive and update it regularly. If anything goes wrong with the main drive, I can boot from the clone and continue work.
> 
> On the subject of old software not working on a new Mac, it is often possible to use the software by installing it on a separate hard-disk partition containing an earlier version of the system software. Of course, this will not solve the 32/64-bit problem.
> 
> KW
> 
>> On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at 17:37, Roger E Long via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> I favour Logics Waveburner for Classic Music CD production
>> Its no longer supported by the 64 bit IMacs
>> Its easy to use (as an ex tape editor) and has a wonderful Space Designer and Delay Designer for verbs and delays and an excellent  adaptive limiter, all I need for 2 track stereo acoustic production.
>> I haven?t found a better alternative yet and time is running out.
>> 
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On 22 Jan 2020, at 16:11, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately there is little that can be done to get ongoing support for third party software on any platform when a rival company acquires an established product, gets to own all the IP rights, decides to kill it off in order to prevent competition with their product, ceases support for it and refuses to allow others to develop products using those proprietary formats. Other vector graphics applications remain available, but as far as Freehand is concerned, what many regard as the original vector graphics application has been killed off and buried.
>>> 
>>> Alan Taylor
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 15:00, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> You have neatly described the inherent problems with proprietary systems such as Apple's. 
>>>> 
>>>> Hence why the more open approach of Windows, and the wholly open one of Linux, are so much more interesting to anyone doing projects that aren't in the mundane camp. 
>>>> 
>>>> The "superb build quality" of Apple is a good slogan, but not entirely borne out by the facts. You don't have to search very far on the web to find a great many unhappy examples, in terms of both longevity and design. True, there are a lot of cut-price Windows machines that are cheap and poor, but if you pay sensible money there are brilliant, fast and powerful engines that owe nothing to Apple.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>> 
>>>> On 22/01/2020 14:30, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> Apple used to offer a free application called Rosetta which did what you describe, it emulated the PPC CPUs when Macs switched to Intel CPUs, but it is no longer supported or available as it was only intended to be used during a transition period of several years.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of my biggest disappointments with Macs is that in the quest to move forwards all the time, some old applications are no longer supported by the manufacturers and can no longer be run on current Macs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I used to design equipment using Freehand, which at the time was the leading professional vector graphics application before it was bought by Adobe and killed off.  I could use that one application for everything from designing simple PCBs ( and print them using a laser printer ), create drilling templates for front panels, draw schematic diagrams, document everything and even produce promotional material.  Unfortunately all that data is in a proprietary format which can't be opened by anything else so I keep an old MacBook which still runs Freehand and can open those files to print them.  Whenever I need to revisit one of those old projects, I convert it's documents to PDF format so that I will never have to rely on that old MacBook to read those particular files again.  Fortunately Macs generally keep running for decades and even my ancient PowerBook 1400 from 1997 still starts up perfectly.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Alan Taylor
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 13:52, Tony Scott via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No . 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jan 2020, 13:46 Dave Plowman via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> Not being a Mac person, is there not a virtual app that allows you to run
>>>>>>> legacy progs? 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In article <79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3 at icloud.com>,
>>>>>>>    Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> > Get as much RAM as you can afford is the basic advice. What version of
>>>>>>> > MacOS are you running? The main gotcha is that the new iMacs are 64 bit
>>>>>>> > and a lot of old software will not run without being upgraded so be
>>>>>>> > prepared to have to purchase repacements.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> *Windows will never cease *
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> <Time Machine Problems.rtf>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200123/d0580a08/attachment.html>

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Thu Jan 23 05:20:36 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 11:20:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6F27AB83-DCC8-4EBF-BB99-40C652D81AA2@vincent68.plus.com>
	<79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3@icloud.com>
	<5836586be8dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAOw_4rbmp5PDYZKc3vJghL4wYyTqPRZpekKfmh4KjUMjQEuh2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<7647073E-95F2-442A-AF18-C201AD9A58B3@me.com>
	<c5c4085d-6337-01c3-1875-494b072b0a46@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5ED96A83-D1BD-4CFA-930B-8512173B8251@me.com>
	<1B83A1FA-71FF-48BB-B74B-4063C07D676C@btinternet.com>
	<CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b1678ad1-4f6d-b7e1-ec3a-4a4448817a2a@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 23/01/2020 04:29, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
> ... A search on the internet will quickly reveal many furious users of 
> Time Machine.


That's always so useful.

Many companies - Apple included - promote product reliability as 
confidently as Trump promotes his idiosyncratic ideas on government. A 
handful of "local" anecdotes from people that have "bought" a product 
rarely counters that sort of information, but a wider poll often reveals 
a different story.

The internet has a great many faults - and believing all negative 
publicity is as unwise as falling for the unalloyed positive - but it 
shouldn't take more than a few minutes to get a tolerably balanced sniff 
of the central truth of most things. The vast majority of scams, urban 
myths, polarised reviews etc can usually be revealed with a careful 
worded Google search and intelligent surfing.

And should be.


Chris Woolf

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200123/5d092788/attachment.html>

From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Thu Jan 23 05:58:12 2020
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 11:58:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <6855B62F-B342-4710-A8D4-25B310BFF955@me.com>
References: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6855B62F-B342-4710-A8D4-25B310BFF955@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJk=5mxn9QFzmMQ=LQxwJVm1C6TJ8ApmEVQirhQmiXr4GA@mail.gmail.com>

Alan mentioned hard drive failures. I've had little trouble in recent
years, but one large drive of mine did fail, and that was a WD drive. My WD
drives were attractively priced, but it seems they are less reliable than
many other brands. Before buying a large hard drive, it's worthwhile
searching for hard drive failure rate. The search results will include many
quarterly reports from backblaze.com, who currently run about 100,000
drives. Recent figures are for high capacity drives ? nothing below 4TB ?
but earlier reports include figures for some lower capacity drives. I was
surprised to see that 10 to 12 TB drives had a very low failure rate.
Japanese drives seem to do well too, but note that some have not been in
use by Backblaze for very long.
KW

On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 at 07:43, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> I too encountered the problem of a Time Capsule failing to work properly
> when I needed it. That?s why I ended up using three bare drives and a
> drop-in adaptor.  By rotating the drive used each day, I can never lose
> more than one day of back ups.  I?ve been doing this for many years now
> with back ups for multiple Macs and have had an occasional failure, but the
> other two drives have come to the rescue. My experience has been that
> multiple WD drives have failed and one Seagate. The Hitachi drives have all
> kept working perfectly, some for well over a decade.
>
> Agreed about CCC too, it works well and is easy to use.  It?s the best one
> to use, but just make sure you regularly run it. I set repeating reminders
> in my calendar because I?m crap at remembering such things.
>
> There are some files which are especially important to me, mainly
> photographs and some financial files. Once in a while I copy them to an
> encrypted thumb drive which is kept by a relative who lives nearby, so that
> there is an off-site copy in case of some catastrophe at home.  I keep a
> similar thumb drive for them.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
> On 23 Jan 2020, at 04:29, Keith Wicks <keithwicksuk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> I agree with most of the comments that have been made about Macs. However,
> I must pass on this warning. Do not rely on Time Machine for backups.
>
> A search on the internet will quickly reveal many furious users of Time
> Machine. The idea of being able to revert to how the computer was on
> various dates is very useful, and the software display is excellent. But
> many users have found that, although the system appears to be working just
> as it should, it is doing no such thing. When a "backup" is retrieved, they
> find that the files contain no data and are, therefore, useless.
>
> I have personal experience of this problem. I set up my wife's Time
> Machine to backup her MacBook Pro on an AirPort Time Capsule when Apple
> recalled the MacBook to replace its battery. While the MacBook was with
> Apple, we found that most of the files that appeared to have been backed up
> were, in fact, empty. I then searched the internet for information and
> found that we were by no means alone. Although the Time Capsule has been
> discontinued, there are still ways of using Time Machine, and these may be
> OK. The problem we had was that the Time Machine software gave no
> indication that a backup attempt has not been successful. Little wonder
> then that many instructions for using Time Capsule recommend the use of a
> conventional additional backup, or checking, from time to time, that the
> backup files on the Time Capsule are still OK (too bad if they are not!). I
> have attached a document containing relevant notes, comments and links that
> I found on the internet.
>
> For reliable incremental backups, I use and recommend Carbon Copy Cloner.
> I have made a clone of my main hard drive on an external hard drive and
> update it regularly. If anything goes wrong with the main drive, I can boot
> from the clone and continue work.
>
> On the subject of old software not working on a new Mac, it is often
> possible to use the software by installing it on a separate hard-disk
> partition containing an earlier version of the system software. Of course,
> this will not solve the 32/64-bit problem.
>
> KW
>
> On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at 17:37, Roger E Long via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> I favour Logics Waveburner for Classic Music CD production
>> Its no longer supported by the 64 bit IMacs
>> Its easy to use (as an ex tape editor) and has a wonderful Space Designer
>> and Delay Designer for verbs and delays and an excellent  adaptive limiter,
>> all I need for 2 track stereo acoustic production.
>> I haven?t found a better alternative yet and time is running out.
>>
>> Roger
>>
>> On 22 Jan 2020, at 16:11, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Unfortunately there is little that can be done to get ongoing support for
>> third party software on any platform when a rival company acquires an
>> established product, gets to own all the IP rights, decides to kill it off
>> in order to prevent competition with their product, ceases support for it
>> and refuses to allow others to develop products using those proprietary
>> formats. Other vector graphics applications remain available, but as far as
>> Freehand is concerned, what many regard as the original vector graphics
>> application has been killed off and buried.
>>
>> Alan Taylor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 15:00, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <
>> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> You have neatly described the inherent problems with proprietary systems
>> such as Apple's.
>>
>> Hence why the more open approach of Windows, and the wholly open one of
>> Linux, are so much more interesting to anyone doing projects that aren't in
>> the mundane camp.
>>
>> The "superb build quality" of Apple is a good slogan, but not entirely
>> borne out by the facts. You don't have to search very far on the web to
>> find a great many unhappy examples, in terms of both longevity and design.
>> True, there are a lot of cut-price Windows machines that are cheap and
>> poor, but if you pay sensible money there are brilliant, fast and powerful
>> engines that owe nothing to Apple.
>>
>> Chris Woolf
>> On 22/01/2020 14:30, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>
>> Apple used to offer a free application called Rosetta which did what you
>> describe, it emulated the PPC CPUs when Macs switched to Intel CPUs, but it
>> is no longer supported or available as it was only intended to be used
>> during a transition period of several years.
>>
>> One of my biggest disappointments with Macs is that in the quest to move
>> forwards all the time, some old applications are no longer supported by the
>> manufacturers and can no longer be run on current Macs.
>>
>> I used to design equipment using Freehand, which at the time was the
>> leading professional vector graphics application before it was bought by
>> Adobe and killed off.  I could use that one application for everything from
>> designing simple PCBs ( and print them using a laser printer ), create
>> drilling templates for front panels, draw schematic diagrams, document
>> everything and even produce promotional material.  Unfortunately all that
>> data is in a proprietary format which can't be opened by anything else so I
>> keep an old MacBook which still runs Freehand and can open those files to
>> print them.  Whenever I need to revisit one of those old projects, I
>> convert it's documents to PDF format so that I will never have to rely on
>> that old MacBook to read those particular files again.  Fortunately Macs
>> generally keep running for decades and even my ancient PowerBook 1400 from
>> 1997 still starts up perfectly.
>>
>> Alan Taylor
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 13:52, Tony Scott via Tech1 <
>> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> No .
>>
>> On Wed, 22 Jan 2020, 13:46 Dave Plowman via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Not being a Mac person, is there not a virtual app that allows you to run
>>> legacy progs?
>>>
>>>
>>> In article <79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3 at icloud.com>,
>>>    Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> > Get as much RAM as you can afford is the basic advice. What version of
>>> > MacOS are you running? The main gotcha is that the new iMacs are 64 bit
>>> > and a lot of old software will not run without being upgraded so be
>>> > prepared to have to purchase repacements.
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Windows will never cease *
>>>
>>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> <Time Machine Problems.rtf>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200123/95f8ed7d/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 23 09:20:53 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 15:20:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJk=5mxn9QFzmMQ=LQxwJVm1C6TJ8ApmEVQirhQmiXr4GA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6855B62F-B342-4710-A8D4-25B310BFF955@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJk=5mxn9QFzmMQ=LQxwJVm1C6TJ8ApmEVQirhQmiXr4GA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1cb7de29-9c40-08c1-daf1-807908de8c8f@gmail.com>

I don't know about anyone else, but I've gradually evolved my backups 
over the years -

1) None at all, so lose all my stuff when the drive starts ticking.
2)? On CDs (that was quite a while back now)
3) On DVDs. I still have a pile of them.
4)? Mirrored drives - that didn't work well at all as both crashed when 
one did.
5) Separate internal drives. I have a standard PC medium tower box, with 
room for nine drives, more if they're SSDs. I haven't filled it, but 
there are two drives backing various stuff.
6) A Synology NAS. I got rich enough, lazy enough, and busy enough on 
the computer to splash out a bit, and got a DS218i.? It backs up 
selected folders as I go without me doing anything. I can access it from 
anywhere in the world.

All this relies on the house not burning down of course.? I do have some 
stuff some on Google Drive.

On updating computers. A few months back I started running DaVinci 
Resolve in a reasonably serious manner. It's free, so my U3A group can 
just download it and use it without any great commitment. The PC build 
that I had dated from various years, but the motherboard was 2012, a bit 
creaky now, and pretty slow at rendering Fusion stuff. So I bought a new 
motherboard (Gigabyte Z390), processor (Core i5 9600K) and 8Gb memory. 
Everything else stayed - box, power supply, drives, graphics card 
(GeForce 960) and monitors. Under ?500 the lot. I can put in more memory 
or update parts as I wish. Windows 10 just accepted it. It isn't a 
pretty box, but I regard computers as industrial machinery rather than 
limousines. The motherboard does have pretty blue LEDs around on it, 
like go faster stripes. I've turned them off.

B




On 23/01/2020 11:58, Keith Wicks via Tech1 wrote:
> Alan mentioned hard drive?failures. I've had?little trouble in recent 
> years, but one large drive of mine did fail, and that was a WD drive. 
> My WD drives were attractively priced, but it seems they are less 
> reliable than many other brands. Before buying a large hard drive, 
> it's worthwhile searching for hard drive failure rate.?The search 
> results will include many quarterly reports from backblaze.com 
> <http://backblaze.com>, who currently run about 100,000 drives. Recent 
> figures are for high capacity drives ? nothing below 4TB ? but earlier 
> reports include figures for some lower capacity drives. I was 
> surprised to see that 10 to 12 TB drives had a very low failure rate. 
> Japanese drives seem to do well too, but note that some have not been 
> in use by Backblaze for very long.
> KW
>
> On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 at 07:43, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>     I too encountered the problem of a Time Capsule failing to work
>     properly when I needed it. That?s why I ended up using three bare
>     drives and a drop-in adaptor.? By rotating the drive used each
>     day, I can never lose more than one day of back ups.? I?ve been
>     doing this for many years now with back ups for multiple Macs and
>     have had an occasional failure, but the other two drives have come
>     to the rescue. My experience has been that multiple WD drives have
>     failed and one Seagate. The Hitachi drives have all kept working
>     perfectly, some for well over a decade.
>
>     Agreed about CCC too, it works well and is easy to use.? It?s the
>     best one to use, but just make sure you regularly run it. I set
>     repeating reminders in my calendar because I?m crap at remembering
>     such things.
>
>     There are some files which are especially important to me, mainly
>     photographs and some financial files. Once in a while I copy them
>     to an encrypted thumb drive which is kept by a relative who lives
>     nearby, so that there is an off-site copy in case of some
>     catastrophe at home.? I keep a similar thumb drive for them.
>
>     Alan Taylor
>
>
>>     On 23 Jan 2020, at 04:29, Keith Wicks <keithwicksuk at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:keithwicksuk at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     ?
>>     I agree with most of the comments that have been made about Macs.
>>     However, I must pass on this warning. Do not rely on Time Machine
>>     for backups.
>>
>>     A search on the internet will quickly reveal many furious users
>>     of Time Machine. The idea of being able to revert to how the
>>     computer was on various dates is very useful, and the software
>>     display is excellent. But many users have found that, although
>>     the system appears to be working just as it should, it is doing
>>     no such thing. When a "backup" is retrieved, they find that the
>>     files contain no data and are, therefore, useless.
>>
>>     I have personal experience of this problem. I set up my wife's
>>     Time Machine to backup her MacBook Pro on an AirPort Time Capsule
>>     when Apple recalled the MacBook to replace its battery. While the
>>     MacBook was with Apple, we found that most of the files that
>>     appeared to have been backed up were, in fact, empty. I then
>>     searched the internet for information and found that we were by
>>     no means alone. Although the Time Capsule has?been discontinued,
>>     there are still ways of using Time Machine, and these may be OK.
>>     The problem we had was that the Time Machine software gave no
>>     indication that a backup attempt has not been successful. Little
>>     wonder then that many instructions for using Time Capsule
>>     recommend the use of a conventional additional backup, or
>>     checking, from time to time, that the backup files on the Time
>>     Capsule are still OK (too bad if they are not!). I have attached
>>     a document containing relevant notes, comments and links that I
>>     found on the internet.
>>
>>     For reliable incremental backups, I use and recommend Carbon Copy
>>     Cloner. I have made a clone of my main hard drive on an external
>>     hard drive and update it regularly. If anything goes wrong with
>>     the main drive, I can boot from the clone and continue work.
>>
>>     On the subject of old software not working on a new Mac, it is
>>     often possible to use the software by installing it on a separate
>>     hard-disk partition containing an earlier version of the system
>>     software. Of course, this will not solve the 32/64-bit problem.
>>
>>     KW
>>
>>     On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 at 17:37, Roger E Long via Tech1
>>     <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>         I favour Logics Waveburner for Classic Music CD production
>>         Its no longer supported by the 64 bit IMacs
>>         Its easy to use (as an ex tape editor) and has a wonderful
>>         Space Designer and Delay Designer for verbs and delays and an
>>         excellent ?adaptive limiter, all I need for 2 track stereo
>>         acoustic production.
>>         I haven?t found a better alternative yet and time is running out.
>>
>>         Roger
>>
>>>         On 22 Jan 2020, at 16:11, Alan Taylor via Tech1
>>>         <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Unfortunately there is little that can be done to get
>>>         ongoing support for third party software on any platform
>>>         when a rival company acquires an established product, gets
>>>         to own all the IP rights, decides to kill it off in order to
>>>         prevent competition with their product, ceases support for
>>>         it and refuses to allow others to develop products using
>>>         those proprietary formats. Other vector graphics
>>>         applications remain available, but as far as Freehand is
>>>         concerned, what many regard as the original vector graphics
>>>         application has been killed off and buried.
>>>
>>>         Alan Taylor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>         On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 15:00, Chris Woolf via Tech1
>>>         <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>         You have neatly described the inherent problems with
>>>>         proprietary systems such as Apple's.
>>>>
>>>>         Hence why the more open approach of Windows, and the wholly
>>>>         open one of Linux, are so much more interesting to anyone
>>>>         doing projects that aren't in the mundane camp.
>>>>
>>>>         The "superb build quality" of Apple is a good slogan, but
>>>>         not entirely borne out by the facts. You don't have to
>>>>         search very far on the web to find a great many unhappy
>>>>         examples, in terms of both longevity and design. True,
>>>>         there are a lot of cut-price Windows machines that are
>>>>         cheap and poor, but if you pay sensible money there are
>>>>         brilliant, fast and powerful engines that owe nothing to Apple.
>>>>
>>>>         Chris Woolf
>>>>
>>>>         On 22/01/2020 14:30, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>         Apple used to offer a free application called Rosetta
>>>>>         which did what you describe, it emulated the PPC CPUs when
>>>>>         Macs switched to Intel CPUs, but it is no longer supported
>>>>>         or available as it was only intended to be used during a
>>>>>         transition period of several years.
>>>>>
>>>>>         One of my biggest disappointments with Macs is that in the
>>>>>         quest to move forwards all the time, some old applications
>>>>>         are no longer supported by the manufacturers and can no
>>>>>         longer be run on current Macs.
>>>>>
>>>>>         I used to design equipment using Freehand, which at the
>>>>>         time was the leading professional vector graphics
>>>>>         application before it was bought by Adobe and killed off.?
>>>>>         I could use that one application for everything from
>>>>>         designing simple PCBs ( and print them using a laser
>>>>>         printer ), create drilling templates for front panels,
>>>>>         draw schematic diagrams, document everything and even
>>>>>         produce promotional material.? Unfortunately all that data
>>>>>         is in a proprietary format which can't be opened by
>>>>>         anything else so I keep an old MacBook which still runs
>>>>>         Freehand and can open those files to print them.? Whenever
>>>>>         I need to revisit one of those old projects, I convert
>>>>>         it's documents to PDF format so that I will never have to
>>>>>         rely on that old MacBook to read those particular files
>>>>>         again. Fortunately Macs generally keep running for decades
>>>>>         and even my ancient PowerBook 1400 from 1997 still starts
>>>>>         up perfectly.
>>>>>
>>>>>         Alan Taylor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         On 22 Jan 2020, at 22 Jan . 13:52, Tony Scott via Tech1
>>>>>         <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>         No .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         On Wed, 22 Jan 2020, 13:46 Dave Plowman via Tech1,
>>>>>>         <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             Not being a Mac person, is there not a virtual app
>>>>>>             that allows you to run
>>>>>>             legacy progs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             In article
>>>>>>             <79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3 at icloud.com
>>>>>>             <mailto:79419DE2-AF5F-4D0B-A6D5-6D30AC7FE5D3 at icloud.com>>,
>>>>>>             ? ?Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>             <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>>>             > Get as much RAM as you can afford is the basic
>>>>>>             advice. What version of
>>>>>>             > MacOS are you running? The main gotcha is that the
>>>>>>             new iMacs are 64 bit
>>>>>>             > and a lot of old software will not run without
>>>>>>             being upgraded so be
>>>>>>             > prepared to have to purchase repacements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             -- 
>>>>>>             *Windows will never cease *
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             ? ? Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk
>>>>>>             <mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk> ? ?London SW 12
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             -- 
>>>>>>             Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>             Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>>>>             http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         -- 
>>>>>>         Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>>         Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>>>>         http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>>     <Time Machine Problems.rtf>
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200123/71abb2e3/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Thu Jan 23 10:56:22 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 16:56:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <1cb7de29-9c40-08c1-daf1-807908de8c8f@gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6855B62F-B342-4710-A8D4-25B310BFF955@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJk=5mxn9QFzmMQ=LQxwJVm1C6TJ8ApmEVQirhQmiXr4GA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1cb7de29-9c40-08c1-daf1-807908de8c8f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5836eebf1fdave@davesound.co.uk>

Just an ask about this. My workshop desktop PC has a proper serial port,
which I use with MegaSquirt (an aftermarket car ECU I build and repair)
The MB on it - pretty old, but does what I need - failed, and I couldn't
find one which said it had a Serial port. It also has an ex BBC Digigram
sound card with balanced analogue in outs, as well as the pro digital
standards. And wanted to be sure all that would still work - so bought a
used identical MB. But would be willing to lash out on a better spec one,
if I could. Without having to spend an extra fortune updating other things
I use.     


In article <1cb7de29-9c40-08c1-daf1-807908de8c8f at gmail.com>,
   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> On updating computers. A few months back I started running DaVinci 
> Resolve in a reasonably serious manner. It's free, so my U3A group can 
> just download it and use it without any great commitment. The PC build 
> that I had dated from various years, but the motherboard was 2012, a bit 
> creaky now, and pretty slow at rendering Fusion stuff. So I bought a new 
> motherboard (Gigabyte Z390), processor (Core i5 9600K) and 8Gb memory. 
> Everything else stayed - box, power supply, drives, graphics card 
> (GeForce 960) and monitors. Under ?500 the lot. I can put in more memory 
> or update parts as I wish. Windows 10 just accepted it. It isn't a 
> pretty box, but I regard computers as industrial machinery rather than 
> limousines. The motherboard does have pretty blue LEDs around on it, 
> like go faster stripes. I've turned them off.

-- 
*The best cure for sea sickness, is to sit under a tree.

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 23 11:41:12 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2020 17:41:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <5836eebf1fdave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6855B62F-B342-4710-A8D4-25B310BFF955@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJk=5mxn9QFzmMQ=LQxwJVm1C6TJ8ApmEVQirhQmiXr4GA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1cb7de29-9c40-08c1-daf1-807908de8c8f@gmail.com>
	<5836eebf1fdave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6@ntlworld.com>

Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors 
are easily available. This man explains -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzCNfBux1h0

https://www.amazon.co.uk/StarTech-com-USB-Serial-Adapter-Powered/dp/B004ZMYTYC?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_4

Don't forget that motherboards will accept a range of processors and 
memory, but generally only fairly recent ones. Mine says -

/"Support for 9th and 8th Generation Intel? Core? i9 processors/Intel? 
Core? i7 processors/Intel? Core? i5 processors/Intel? Core? i3 
processors/Intel? Pentium? processors/Intel? Celeron? processors in the 
LGA1151 package"

/and

/"?4 x DDR4 DIMM sockets supporting up to 64 GB of system memory//
//??Dual channel memory architecture//
//??Support for DDR4 2666/2400/2133 MHz memory modules//
//??Support for ECC Un-buffered DIMM 1Rx8/2Rx8 memory"

/Modern motherboards only have PCIe slots, so your soundcard won't work, 
but there'll be some USB3 connected equivalent.? My Behringer sound 
mixer has USB in and out

B /
///



On 23/01/2020 16:56, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> Just an ask about this. My workshop desktop PC has a proper serial port,
> which I use with MegaSquirt (an aftermarket car ECU I build and repair)
> The MB on it - pretty old, but does what I need - failed, and I couldn't
> find one which said it had a Serial port. It also has an ex BBC Digigram
> sound card with balanced analogue in outs, as well as the pro digital
> standards. And wanted to be sure all that would still work - so bought a
> used identical MB. But would be willing to lash out on a better spec one,
> if I could. Without having to spend an extra fortune updating other things
> I use.
>
>
> In article <1cb7de29-9c40-08c1-daf1-807908de8c8f at gmail.com>,
>     Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> On updating computers. A few months back I started running DaVinci
>> Resolve in a reasonably serious manner. It's free, so my U3A group can
>> just download it and use it without any great commitment. The PC build
>> that I had dated from various years, but the motherboard was 2012, a bit
>> creaky now, and pretty slow at rendering Fusion stuff. So I bought a new
>> motherboard (Gigabyte Z390), processor (Core i5 9600K) and 8Gb memory.
>> Everything else stayed - box, power supply, drives, graphics card
>> (GeForce 960) and monitors. Under ?500 the lot. I can put in more memory
>> or update parts as I wish. Windows 10 just accepted it. It isn't a
>> pretty box, but I regard computers as industrial machinery rather than
>> limousines. The motherboard does have pretty blue LEDs around on it,
>> like go faster stripes. I've turned them off.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200123/534077f7/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Thu Jan 23 18:25:12 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 00:25:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6@ntlworld.com>
References: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6855B62F-B342-4710-A8D4-25B310BFF955@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJk=5mxn9QFzmMQ=LQxwJVm1C6TJ8ApmEVQirhQmiXr4GA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1cb7de29-9c40-08c1-daf1-807908de8c8f@gmail.com>
	<5836eebf1fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <583717d59fdave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>,
   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors 
> are easily available. This man explains -

They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
don't like the length of cable run I have.

-- 
*If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From waresound at msn.com  Fri Jan 24 04:33:54 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 10:33:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

By robust, I assume you mean data, not physical. If you want speed, distance, and robust, I would have thought you?d be better off with CAT5 interconnectivity. For shared drives, HDMI-over-CAT5, audio data distribution (Dante etc.), that leaves 15pin ?D? Serial way back in the past where it belongs.
USB-3 and USB-C are super-fast, but only over a relatively short distance. Plain old USB, not so fast.
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

>> On 24 Jan 2020, at 00:31, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>,
>>  Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors
>> are easily available. This man explains -
> 
> They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
> don't like the length of cable run I have.
> 
> -- 
> *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
> 
>   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 24 04:54:35 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 10:54:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] No longer Re:  iMac
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <9f850efd-7736-568d-4b15-80f37de19c43@ntlworld.com>

When I put a USB webcam in my birdbox, I had the distance problem, as 
it's at the other end of the house from the computer. I bought a powered 
USB extension like this one - https://amzn.to/37nKCot . It's worked fine 
for years now, running video.

Trying to work out what Megasquirt actually is, I watched some YouTubes. 
They seem to be using laptops in cars to do whatever it does.

B



On 24/01/2020 10:33, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> By robust, I assume you mean data, not physical. If you want speed, distance, and robust, I would have thought you?d be better off with CAT5 interconnectivity. For shared drives, HDMI-over-CAT5, audio data distribution (Dante etc.), that leaves 15pin ?D? Serial way back in the past where it belongs.
> USB-3 and USB-C are super-fast, but only over a relatively short distance. Plain old USB, not so fast.
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>>> On 24 Jan 2020, at 00:31, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>,
>>>   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors
>>> are easily available. This man explains -
>> They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
>> don't like the length of cable run I have.
>>
>> -- 
>> *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>>
>>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200124/f6c6062e/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 24 04:54:55 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 10:54:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] No longer Re:  iMac
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <7969ba9f-0cea-96b3-5189-cc67a8edb35b@gmail.com>

When I put a USB webcam in my birdbox, I had the distance problem, as 
it's at the other end of the house from the computer. I bought a powered 
USB extension like this one - https://amzn.to/37nKCot . It's worked fine 
for years now, running video.

Trying to work out what Megasquirt actually is, I watched some YouTubes. 
They seem to be using laptops in cars to do whatever it does.

B



On 24/01/2020 10:33, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> By robust, I assume you mean data, not physical. If you want speed, distance, and robust, I would have thought you?d be better off with CAT5 interconnectivity. For shared drives, HDMI-over-CAT5, audio data distribution (Dante etc.), that leaves 15pin ?D? Serial way back in the past where it belongs.
> USB-3 and USB-C are super-fast, but only over a relatively short distance. Plain old USB, not so fast.
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>>> On 24 Jan 2020, at 00:31, Dave Plowman via Tech1<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>  wrote:
>>>
>>> ?In article<ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>,
>>>   Bernard Newnham via Tech1<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>  wrote:
>>> Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors
>>> are easily available. This man explains -
>> They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
>> don't like the length of cable run I have.
>>
>> -- 
>> *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>>
>>    Dave Plowmandave at davesound.co.uk      London SW 12
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200124/6b6a7030/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Fri Jan 24 05:06:40 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 11:06:40 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <58375290a5dave@davesound.co.uk>

Problem is MegaSquirt comes with a serial port. Latest versions have USB
too. USB is fine for connecting a laptop in the car to it as the cable run
is short. USB to serial adaptors seem to vary quite a bit too - some
simply don't work with MS.

As far as I know serial is still used to communicate with machine tools
etc. It is possible to still buy laptops with one - but at a very high
price.  

Thing is what I have works just fine. But on Win7. Whether it still will
if and when I update to Win10, who knows. 



In article
<VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
   Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> By robust, I assume you mean data, not physical. If you want speed, distance, and robust, I would have thought you?d be better off with CAT5 interconnectivity. For shared drives, HDMI-over-CAT5, audio data distribution (Dante etc.), that leaves 15pin ?D? Serial way back in the past where it belongs.
> USB-3 and USB-C are super-fast, but only over a relatively short distance. Plain old USB, not so fast.
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad mini 5

> >> On 24 Jan 2020, at 00:31, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> >> 
> >> #In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>,
> >>  Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors
> >> are easily available. This man explains -
> > 
> > They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
> > don't like the length of cable run I have.
> > 
> > -- 
> > *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
> > 
> >   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Tech1 mailing list
> > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech

-- 
*Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From dave at davesound.co.uk  Fri Jan 24 05:20:49 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 11:20:49 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] No longer Re:  iMac
In-Reply-To: <9f850efd-7736-568d-4b15-80f37de19c43@ntlworld.com>
References: <VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<9f850efd-7736-568d-4b15-80f37de19c43@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <583753dc03dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <9f850efd-7736-568d-4b15-80f37de19c43 at ntlworld.com>,
   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Trying to work out what Megasquirt actually is, I watched some YouTubes. 
> They seem to be using laptops in cars to do whatever it does.

My old car is a Rover SD1 EFI, the last version of the SD1, which is
fitted with Lucas fuel injection. It is a pretty crude analogue system,
with many parts now hard to find new or good used. 

Converting to MS is pretty simple. I did my car some 12 years ago - and
built MS from a kit, to save money. And got rather enthusiastic about it,
as a hobby. It can be easily mapped to anything you want, unlike the
original Lucas system which is pretty well factory or nothing. I've also
got rid of the distributor and have programmable wasted spark ignition.

Then discovered there was a reasonable market for repairs and mods to MS.
Plenty petrol heads that think nothing of ripping an engine apart are
often totally lost with car electrics.

The serial link to my PC on the other side of the workshop from the bench
simply works. Unlike a USB to serial converter. I have a duplicate monitor
above the workbench. A laptop on the bench would likely be too easy to
damage. This is only really used for diagnostics and re-loading software.

For tuning on the car a laptop is fine. But I don't do that for others.

-- 
*What am I? Flypaper for freaks!?

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Fri Jan 24 05:35:04 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 11:35:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <58375290a5dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<58375290a5dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <fe7924a3-d863-e740-807b-29f434988c5e@chriswoolf.co.uk>

USB to serial converters don't all work well but there are plenty that 
do, and they are cheap.

Ethernet to serial is also quite easy, though a little more expensive.

And there are USB "extenders" that can use 50M of CAT5 as a bridge 
between two boxes - so there really are plenty of ways to get the PC 
away from the engine.

Machine tools have tended to use serial simply because they have to 
connect to legacy systems that nobody has wanted to change. Serial 
interfaces are pretty dumb and inflexible, and I don't think anyone uses 
them through choice any longer.

Chris Woolf


On 24/01/2020 11:06, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> Problem is MegaSquirt comes with a serial port. Latest versions have USB
> too. USB is fine for connecting a laptop in the car to it as the cable run
> is short. USB to serial adaptors seem to vary quite a bit too - some
> simply don't work with MS.
>
> As far as I know serial is still used to communicate with machine tools
> etc. It is possible to still buy laptops with one - but at a very high
> price.
>
> Thing is what I have works just fine. But on Win7. Whether it still will
> if and when I update to Win10, who knows.
>
>
>
> In article
> <VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
>     Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> By robust, I assume you mean data, not physical. If you want speed, distance, and robust, I would have thought you?d be better off with CAT5 interconnectivity. For shared drives, HDMI-over-CAT5, audio data distribution (Dante etc.), that leaves 15pin ?D? Serial way back in the past where it belongs.
>> USB-3 and USB-C are super-fast, but only over a relatively short distance. Plain old USB, not so fast.
>> Nick.
>> Sent from my iPad mini 5
>>>> On 24 Jan 2020, at 00:31, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> #In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>,
>>>>   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors
>>>> are easily available. This man explains -
>>> They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
>>> don't like the length of cable run I have.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>>>
>>>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech


From waresound at msn.com  Fri Jan 24 06:07:07 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 12:07:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] No longer Re:  iMac
In-Reply-To: <583753dc03dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<9f850efd-7736-568d-4b15-80f37de19c43@ntlworld.com>,
	<583753dc03dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02717942A3FD6CE42818FDA6A70E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Oh, Cars, I see. Ignore my last message. I thought we were talking about home computing.
Do you mean to say you don?t tune it by ear, like we did our twin SU?s?
Must admit though, Megasquirt had me worried there for a moment!
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 24 Jan 2020, at 11:21, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?In article <9f850efd-7736-568d-4b15-80f37de19c43 at ntlworld.com>,
>   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Trying to work out what Megasquirt actually is, I watched some YouTubes. 
>> They seem to be using laptops in cars to do whatever it does.
> 
> My old car is a Rover SD1 EFI, the last version of the SD1, which is
> fitted with Lucas fuel injection. It is a pretty crude analogue system,
> with many parts now hard to find new or good used. 
> 
> Converting to MS is pretty simple. I did my car some 12 years ago - and
> built MS from a kit, to save money. And got rather enthusiastic about it,
> as a hobby. It can be easily mapped to anything you want, unlike the
> original Lucas system which is pretty well factory or nothing. I've also
> got rid of the distributor and have programmable wasted spark ignition.
> 
> Then discovered there was a reasonable market for repairs and mods to MS.
> Plenty petrol heads that think nothing of ripping an engine apart are
> often totally lost with car electrics.
> 
> The serial link to my PC on the other side of the workshop from the bench
> simply works. Unlike a USB to serial converter. I have a duplicate monitor
> above the workbench. A laptop on the bench would likely be too easy to
> damage. This is only really used for diagnostics and re-loading software.
> 
> For tuning on the car a laptop is fine. But I don't do that for others.
> 
> -- 
> *What am I? Flypaper for freaks!?
> 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Fri Jan 24 07:57:37 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 13:57:37 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <fe7924a3-d863-e740-807b-29f434988c5e@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<58375290a5dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<fe7924a3-d863-e740-807b-29f434988c5e@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <583762377fdave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <fe7924a3-d863-e740-807b-29f434988c5e at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
   Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> USB to serial converters don't all work well but there are plenty that 
> do, and they are cheap.

Yup.

> Ethernet to serial is also quite easy, though a little more expensive.

Serial to serial works perfectly well already. ;-) 

> And there are USB "extenders" that can use 50M of CAT5 as a bridge 
> between two boxes - so there really are plenty of ways to get the PC 
> away from the engine.

I used something similar to extend HDMI to feed the TV in the kitchen from
the PVR in the living room. 

But I'm not talking about connecting a PC to the car's engine. You'd
normally use a laptop for that in the car so cable run not a problem. I'm
merely using it for test etc purposes with just the MS on the bench.
But could add a rolling road facility I once visited did use the serial
port to connect to their workshop computer.   

> Machine tools have tended to use serial simply because they have to 
> connect to legacy systems that nobody has wanted to change. Serial 
> interfaces are pretty dumb and inflexible, and I don't think anyone uses 
> them through choice any longer.

Well, it is a robust medium with robust connectors. If it does the job,
why change for the sake of it?  

> Chris Woolf


> On 24/01/2020 11:06, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> > Problem is MegaSquirt comes with a serial port. Latest versions have USB
> > too. USB is fine for connecting a laptop in the car to it as the cable run
> > is short. USB to serial adaptors seem to vary quite a bit too - some
> > simply don't work with MS.
> >
> > As far as I know serial is still used to communicate with machine tools
> > etc. It is possible to still buy laptops with one - but at a very high
> > price.
> >
> > Thing is what I have works just fine. But on Win7. Whether it still will
> > if and when I update to Win10, who knows.
> >
> >
> >
> > In article
> > <VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
> >     Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> >> By robust, I assume you mean data, not physical. If you want speed, distance, and robust, I would have thought you?d be better off with CAT5 interconnectivity. For shared drives, HDMI-over-CAT5, audio data distribution (Dante etc.), that leaves 15pin ?D? Serial way back in the past where it belongs.
> >> USB-3 and USB-C are super-fast, but only over a relatively short distance. Plain old USB, not so fast.
> >> Nick.
> >> Sent from my iPad mini 5
> >>>> On 24 Jan 2020, at 00:31, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> #In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>,
> >>>>   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>> Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors
> >>>> are easily available. This man explains -
> >>> They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
> >>> don't like the length of cable run I have.
> >>>
> >>> -- 
> >>> *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
> >>>
> >>>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -- 
> >>> Tech1 mailing list
> >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> >> -- 
> >> Tech

> -- 
> T

-- 
*It was all so different before everything changed.

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From teateatone2 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 24 09:18:42 2020
From: teateatone2 at gmail.com (Tony Grant)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 15:18:42 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <583717d59fdave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6855B62F-B342-4710-A8D4-25B310BFF955@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJk=5mxn9QFzmMQ=LQxwJVm1C6TJ8ApmEVQirhQmiXr4GA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1cb7de29-9c40-08c1-daf1-807908de8c8f@gmail.com>
	<5836eebf1fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6@ntlworld.com>
	<583717d59fdave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAEMv0RMNzCOpRp-_fWweVa-tJAdipQLoFyzrweJYL3XXuwWcUg@mail.gmail.com>

This thread has come at an opportune moment, as I still haven't recovered
from the failure of three hard discs, one internal and two external. Whilst
I think I have retrieved all files, and got a relatively new Mac mini (plus
two older models) up and running Catalina, I am now pondering safe, secure
and reliable back-up. Thus, I think I'm about to purchase the Carbon Copy
Cloner, as it appears to cover all my needs, so my question is, can I swap
back-up discs on a regular basis so's I have more than one cloned copy?

TeaTeaFN - Tony

On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM Dave Plowman via Tech1 <
tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>,
>    Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> > Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors
> > are easily available. This man explains -
>
> They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
> don't like the length of cable run I have.
>
> --
> *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>
>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200124/0f0cb20e/attachment.html>

From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Fri Jan 24 09:33:33 2020
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 15:33:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd:  iMac
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJ=2pu3TEkctfNyE1OEcRPmGmAVZ63LH0izzOayRarS3Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6855B62F-B342-4710-A8D4-25B310BFF955@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJk=5mxn9QFzmMQ=LQxwJVm1C6TJ8ApmEVQirhQmiXr4GA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1cb7de29-9c40-08c1-daf1-807908de8c8f@gmail.com>
	<5836eebf1fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6@ntlworld.com>
	<583717d59fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAEMv0RMNzCOpRp-_fWweVa-tJAdipQLoFyzrweJYL3XXuwWcUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=2pu3TEkctfNyE1OEcRPmGmAVZ63LH0izzOayRarS3Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJmWmwNq41JuiLtA6Ww3OOVP6M0GxikipohBgG5pJiastA@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Keith Wicks <keithwicksuk at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 at 15:29
Subject: Re: [Tech1] iMac
To: Tony Grant <teateatone2 at gmail.com>


Yes, you can use CCC to make as many clones of your hard drive as you like.
And you can boot from any one you want, should the need arise.
KW

On Fri, 24 Jan 2020 at 15:19, Tony Grant via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> This thread has come at an opportune moment, as I still haven't recovered
> from the failure of three hard discs, one internal and two external. Whilst
> I think I have retrieved all files, and got a relatively new Mac mini (plus
> two older models) up and running Catalina, I am now pondering safe, secure
> and reliable back-up. Thus, I think I'm about to purchase the Carbon Copy
> Cloner, as it appears to cover all my needs, so my question is, can I swap
> back-up discs on a regular basis so's I have more than one cloned copy?
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM Dave Plowman via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>,
>>    Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors
>> > are easily available. This man explains -
>>
>> They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
>> don't like the length of cable run I have.
>>
>> --
>> *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>>
>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200124/0331b5eb/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Fri Jan 24 10:23:13 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 16:23:13 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <CAEMv0RMNzCOpRp-_fWweVa-tJAdipQLoFyzrweJYL3XXuwWcUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6855B62F-B342-4710-A8D4-25B310BFF955@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJk=5mxn9QFzmMQ=LQxwJVm1C6TJ8ApmEVQirhQmiXr4GA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1cb7de29-9c40-08c1-daf1-807908de8c8f@gmail.com>
	<5836eebf1fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6@ntlworld.com>
	<583717d59fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAEMv0RMNzCOpRp-_fWweVa-tJAdipQLoFyzrweJYL3XXuwWcUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58376f8c5ddave@davesound.co.uk>

I'd say it depends on what you mean by a backup? To backup everything so
in event of a total HD failure you could be up and running again quickly
sounds wonderful, but all I back up are the files it would be a disaster
to loose. Onto an external SSD. 


In article
<CAEMv0RMNzCOpRp-_fWweVa-tJAdipQLoFyzrweJYL3XXuwWcUg at mail.gmail.com>,
   Tony Grant via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> This thread has come at an opportune moment, as I still haven't
> recovered from the failure of three hard discs, one internal and two
> external. Whilst I think I have retrieved all files, and got a
> relatively new Mac mini (plus two older models) up and running Catalina,
> I am now pondering safe, secure and reliable back-up. Thus, I think I'm
> about to purchase the Carbon Copy Cloner, as it appears to cover all my
> needs, so my question is, can I swap back-up discs on a regular basis
> so's I have more than one cloned copy?

-- 
*Born free...Taxed to death.

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Fri Jan 24 10:35:40 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 16:35:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <583762377fdave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <VI1P192MB027103A390A696AD7F228477A70E0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<58375290a5dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<fe7924a3-d863-e740-807b-29f434988c5e@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<583762377fdave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5fcd7e73-11a2-59f3-3a8c-5b299783b3b7@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 24/01/2020 13:57, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> .... [serial interface] If it does the job, why change for the sake of it?

All these older formats and interfaces get changed because they have too 
many drawbacks. RS232 and the like were a struggle to set up because 
they couldn't be plug-'n'-play - you had to set BAUD rate, stop bits, 
parity and heaven knows what to get the interface running. OKish for 
one-off fixed set-ups but a right pain for everyday purposes.

Old serial protocols were also very limited in terms of speed and 
sophistication. There was no useful error correction, and for the 
fastest speed (19200) the max cable length was only about 15m, or 40 
with low capacitance cable. In terms of energy needed they were also 
quite power hungry compared to modern versions.

I agree about the problem with industrial style connectors, but that's 
been addressed by people like Neutrik with the Ethercon (for ethernet 
communications), and similar designs in an MIL shell that covers RJ45 
and USB. Of course for the most part, now, coaxial fibre connections are 
preferred because they are even more robust in mechanical and electrical 
terms.

I do understand the irritation as older, feebler standards are demoted, 
but the replacements do offer enormous improvements and make good sense. 
Expecting modern computers to have conversations with each other at 
push-bike speeds using the most basic of protocols isn't really defensible.

Chris Woolf




From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 24 10:52:12 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 16:52:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <CAEMv0RMNzCOpRp-_fWweVa-tJAdipQLoFyzrweJYL3XXuwWcUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6855B62F-B342-4710-A8D4-25B310BFF955@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJk=5mxn9QFzmMQ=LQxwJVm1C6TJ8ApmEVQirhQmiXr4GA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1cb7de29-9c40-08c1-daf1-807908de8c8f@gmail.com>
	<5836eebf1fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6@ntlworld.com>
	<583717d59fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAEMv0RMNzCOpRp-_fWweVa-tJAdipQLoFyzrweJYL3XXuwWcUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <34365716-f9ea-dd9b-7fdc-abfb8c45ed29@ntlworld.com>

A complete drive clone seems a little over the top, given that much of 
the software is applications and system material that can easily be 
reloaded.? I just have nominated files and folders that get 
incrementally updated onto the Synology raid. I ignore all the 
applications and just backup the stuff I've created. Otherwise I'd need 
to buy 6TB of extra disc.

B


On 24/01/2020 15:18, Tony Grant via Tech1 wrote:
> This thread has come at an opportune moment, as I still haven't 
> recovered from the failure of three hard discs, one internal and two 
> external. Whilst I think I have retrieved all files, and got a 
> relatively new Mac mini (plus two older models) up and running 
> Catalina, I am now pondering safe, secure and reliable back-up. Thus, 
> I think I'm about to purchase the Carbon Copy Cloner, as it appears to 
> cover all my needs, so my question is, can I swap back-up discs on a 
> regular basis so's I have more than one cloned copy?
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM Dave Plowman via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>     In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com
>     <mailto:ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>>,
>     ? ?Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>     <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>     > Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB
>     adaptors
>     > are easily available. This man explains -
>
>     They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
>     don't like the length of cable run I have.
>
>     -- 
>     *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>
>     ? ? Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk
>     <mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk> ? ?London SW 12
>
>
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200124/28d699c7/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 25 03:52:30 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 09:52:30 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Backup was Re:  iMac
In-Reply-To: <34365716-f9ea-dd9b-7fdc-abfb8c45ed29@ntlworld.com>
References: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6855B62F-B342-4710-A8D4-25B310BFF955@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJk=5mxn9QFzmMQ=LQxwJVm1C6TJ8ApmEVQirhQmiXr4GA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1cb7de29-9c40-08c1-daf1-807908de8c8f@gmail.com>
	<5836eebf1fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6@ntlworld.com>
	<583717d59fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAEMv0RMNzCOpRp-_fWweVa-tJAdipQLoFyzrweJYL3XXuwWcUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<34365716-f9ea-dd9b-7fdc-abfb8c45ed29@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <dab8abe6-e812-806e-62bd-bfbc409a7398@gmail.com>

...and for anyone fancying a project, you can use a Raspberry Pi as a 
NAS, cheaper than a Synology.

https://thepi.io/how-to-use-your-raspberry-pi-as-a-nas-box/

B


On 24/01/2020 16:52, Bernard Newnham wrote:
> A complete drive clone seems a little over the top, given that much of 
> the software is applications and system material that can easily be 
> reloaded.? I just have nominated files and folders that get 
> incrementally updated onto the Synology raid. I ignore all the 
> applications and just backup the stuff I've created. Otherwise I'd 
> need to buy 6TB of extra disc.
>
> B
>
>
> On 24/01/2020 15:18, Tony Grant via Tech1 wrote:
>> This thread has come at an opportune moment, as I still haven't 
>> recovered from the failure of three hard discs, one internal and two 
>> external. Whilst I think I have retrieved all files, and got a 
>> relatively new Mac mini (plus two older models) up and running 
>> Catalina, I am now pondering safe, secure and reliable back-up. Thus, 
>> I think I'm about to purchase the Carbon Copy Cloner, as it appears 
>> to cover all my needs, so my question is, can I swap back-up discs on 
>> a regular basis so's I have more than one cloned copy?
>>
>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>     In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com
>>     <mailto:ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>>,
>>     ? ?Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>     <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>     > Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB
>>     adaptors
>>     > are easily available. This man explains -
>>
>>     They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and
>>     they
>>     don't like the length of cable run I have.
>>
>>     -- 
>>     *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>>
>>     ? ? Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk
>>     <mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk> ? ?London SW 12
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Tech1 mailing list
>>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200125/3e64aa5d/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 25 03:52:51 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 09:52:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <CAEMv0RMNzCOpRp-_fWweVa-tJAdipQLoFyzrweJYL3XXuwWcUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6855B62F-B342-4710-A8D4-25B310BFF955@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJk=5mxn9QFzmMQ=LQxwJVm1C6TJ8ApmEVQirhQmiXr4GA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1cb7de29-9c40-08c1-daf1-807908de8c8f@gmail.com>
	<5836eebf1fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6@ntlworld.com>
	<583717d59fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAEMv0RMNzCOpRp-_fWweVa-tJAdipQLoFyzrweJYL3XXuwWcUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a56ef64e-ec50-cd92-27fc-554a3ad0fe6d@gmail.com>

A complete drive clone seems a little over the top, given that much of 
the software is applications and system material that can easily be 
reloaded.? I just have nominated files and folders that get 
incrementally updated onto the Synology raid. I ignore all the 
applications and just backup the stuff I've created. Otherwise I'd need 
to buy 6TB of extra disc.

B


On 24/01/2020 15:18, Tony Grant via Tech1 wrote:
> This thread has come at an opportune moment, as I still haven't 
> recovered from the failure of three hard discs, one internal and two 
> external. Whilst I think I have retrieved all files, and got a 
> relatively new Mac mini (plus two older models) up and running 
> Catalina, I am now pondering safe, secure and reliable back-up. Thus, 
> I think I'm about to purchase the Carbon Copy Cloner, as it appears to 
> cover all my needs, so my question is, can I swap back-up discs on a 
> regular basis so's I have more than one cloned copy?
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM Dave Plowman via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>     In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com
>     <mailto:ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>>,
>     ? ?Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>     <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>     > Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB
>     adaptors
>     > are easily available. This man explains -
>
>     They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
>     don't like the length of cable run I have.
>
>     -- 
>     *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>
>     ? ? Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk
>     <mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk> ? ?London SW 12
>
>
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200125/049eb768/attachment.html>

From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Sat Jan 25 04:55:14 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 10:55:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSD or HD
Message-ID: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>

Many thanks to all the Mac users who stuck their heads above the parapet before the thread was hijacked by the PC boys!

Do I go SSD or HD. There?s conflicting advice on the net.

John V

Sent from my iPad


From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sat Jan 25 04:58:46 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 10:58:46 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSD or HD
In-Reply-To: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <44FD2B20-F048-42FF-86C8-EF16267CA0C1@icloud.com>

I?ve gone for a hybrid iMac which uses an SSD for most used files, eg apps and an HD for slower access storage. But that was a few years back and the price of SSDs has fallen a lot since.

? 
Graeme Wall


> On 25 Jan 2020, at 10:55, John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Many thanks to all the Mac users who stuck their heads above the parapet before the thread was hijacked by the PC boys!
> 
> Do I go SSD or HD. There?s conflicting advice on the net.
> 
> John V
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alawrance1 at me.com  Sat Jan 25 05:17:30 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 11:17:30 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <a56ef64e-ec50-cd92-27fc-554a3ad0fe6d@gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJk-=ShPCGqd7RcxAKWfUj-zr3Qd+4U4cvzhWLO0nzXKJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6855B62F-B342-4710-A8D4-25B310BFF955@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJk=5mxn9QFzmMQ=LQxwJVm1C6TJ8ApmEVQirhQmiXr4GA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1cb7de29-9c40-08c1-daf1-807908de8c8f@gmail.com>
	<5836eebf1fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6@ntlworld.com>
	<583717d59fdave@davesound.co.uk>
	<CAEMv0RMNzCOpRp-_fWweVa-tJAdipQLoFyzrweJYL3XXuwWcUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<a56ef64e-ec50-cd92-27fc-554a3ad0fe6d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E3D512F3-669F-4557-89A4-706298FDD2D5@me.com>

I use CCC as well, as I really don't see the point of Time Machine if it loses old stuff to make room for the new. (If I understand correctly).

I have heard that you can physically put a CCC HD into your machine if disaster strikes, which is obviously easier in some machines than others. A CCC clone should definitely be bootable, anyway.


Alasdair Lawrance
alawrance1 at me.com

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.










> On 25 Jan 2020, at 09:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> A complete drive clone seems a little over the top, given that much of the software is applications and system material that can easily be reloaded.  I just have nominated files and folders that get incrementally updated onto the Synology raid. I ignore all the applications and just backup the stuff I've created. Otherwise I'd need to buy 6TB of extra disc.
> 
> B
> 
> 
> On 24/01/2020 15:18, Tony Grant via Tech1 wrote:
>> This thread has come at an opportune moment, as I still haven't recovered from the failure of three hard discs, one internal and two external. Whilst I think I have retrieved all files, and got a relatively new Mac mini (plus two older models) up and running Catalina, I am now pondering safe, secure and reliable back-up. Thus, I think I'm about to purchase the Carbon Copy Cloner, as it appears to cover all my needs, so my question is, can I swap back-up discs on a regular basis so's I have more than one cloned copy?
>> 
>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>> 
>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>> In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com <mailto:ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>>,
>>    Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>> > Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors 
>> > are easily available. This man explains -
>> 
>> They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
>> don't like the length of cable run I have.
>> 
>> -- 
>> *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>> 
>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk <mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk>     London SW 12
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200125/4b2dc0e8/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Sat Jan 25 05:13:53 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 11:13:53 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] SSD or HD
In-Reply-To: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <5837d70fa5dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B at vincent68.plus.com>,
   John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Many thanks to all the Mac users who stuck their heads above the parapet
> before the thread was hijacked by the PC boys!

> Do I go SSD or HD. There?s conflicting advice on the net.

> John V

> Sent from my iPad

I converted my laptop from HD to SSD and it was noticeably quicker. Most
easily seen at boot. But have no idea how the two compare life wise. Costs
are easy enough to work out.

-- 
*A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at  kickboxing.

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Jan 25 05:27:28 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 11:27:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSD or HD
In-Reply-To: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <6aa67712-16b5-2898-d156-37eb5d329762@chriswoolf.co.uk>

You use both.

The SSD is vastly better for the operating system and frequent files.

The mechanical one has far greater capacity / price and usually lasts 
longer. SSDs do fail, and almost always catastrophically. HDs often give 
a little warning.

I have run my Windows machines with SSDs at the front end and mirrored 
Tb hard drives for some years now. Two SSD failures and no HD ones in 
the last 5 years.

Chris Woolf


On 25/01/2020 10:55, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
> Many thanks to all the Mac users who stuck their heads above the parapet before the thread was hijacked by the PC boys!
>
> Do I go SSD or HD. There?s conflicting advice on the net.
>
> John V
>
> Sent from my iPad
>


From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Jan 25 09:53:55 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 15:53:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <E3D512F3-669F-4557-89A4-706298FDD2D5@me.com>
References: <E3D512F3-669F-4557-89A4-706298FDD2D5@me.com>
Message-ID: <54718F05-8BF3-41F3-A964-4D277877FFF4@me.com>

The way that Time Machine operates is it stores hourly backups for the last 24hrs, daily backups for a month and then weekly backups until its hard drive is full. That?s the time when it overwrites older backups. 

I like to think that I?m sensible about what I tell it to back up and use a pretty large hard drive, so I?m nowhere near the point yet where older data will be overwritten on my Time Machine drives. 

Apple does make this clear on their support site and stresses that because of the fact that very old data can be overwritten, it?s not intended as an archival utility or offline storage solution. 

Personally, I find it very useful, especially when I?m developing Filemaker databases as it?s a very easy way to skip back to a previous version if a modification doesn?t have the desired effect. The version of Filemaker I use doesn?t offer an ?undo? for such changes but Time Machine offers me a practical workaround.   It?s also useful for recovering files which I thought I had finished with and deleted but subsequently wish to look at again. 

If you store files in a consistent and orderly fashion, you can use Time Machine to recover earlier or deleted versions very rapidly. 

There was also a mention about not bothering to back up applications. While I agree in principle, I do back up any paid applications which I have downloaded and don?t have a physical restore disk. I?ve fallen foul of this before and while stuff in Apple?s Store can be downloaded afresh, other developers offering downloads on their own sites aren?t necessarily so accommodating.  

Alan Taylor 

> On 25 Jan 2020, at 11:18, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I use CCC as well, as I really don't see the point of Time Machine if it loses old stuff to make room for the new. (If I understand correctly).
> 
> I have heard that you can physically put a CCC HD into your machine if disaster strikes, which is obviously easier in some machines than others. A CCC clone should definitely be bootable, anyway.
> 
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> alawrance1 at me.com
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 09:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> A complete drive clone seems a little over the top, given that much of the software is applications and system material that can easily be reloaded.  I just have nominated files and folders that get incrementally updated onto the Synology raid. I ignore all the applications and just backup the stuff I've created. Otherwise I'd need to buy 6TB of extra disc.
>> 
>> B
>> 
>> 
>> On 24/01/2020 15:18, Tony Grant via Tech1 wrote:
>>> This thread has come at an opportune moment, as I still haven't recovered from the failure of three hard discs, one internal and two external. Whilst I think I have retrieved all files, and got a relatively new Mac mini (plus two older models) up and running Catalina, I am now pondering safe, secure and reliable back-up. Thus, I think I'm about to purchase the Carbon Copy Cloner, as it appears to cover all my needs, so my question is, can I swap back-up discs on a regular basis so's I have more than one cloned copy?
>>> 
>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>,
>>>>    Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> > Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors 
>>>> > are easily available. This man explains -
>>>> 
>>>> They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
>>>> don't like the length of cable run I have.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>>>> 
>>>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200125/0f046b0d/attachment.html>

From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Sat Jan 25 12:09:46 2020
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 18:09:46 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSD or HD
In-Reply-To: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJmsSmXO4LYXPBLREPprkvvrGevS4sSxtMxjtdN+wFnMHQ@mail.gmail.com>

An ordinary HD is the more economic choice for backups or long-term
storage. An SSD has the advantage of being much faster. Useful on some
jobs. An SSD is also a better choice for laptops that are moved around a
lot as SSDs are more robust than HDs. Many HDs can use SMART technology to
give warning of imminent failure. I've not heard of anything similar for
SSDs, but I wouldn't be surprised if it arrives one day.
KW

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 at 10:55, John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Many thanks to all the Mac users who stuck their heads above the parapet
> before the thread was hijacked by the PC boys!
>
> Do I go SSD or HD. There?s conflicting advice on the net.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200125/1be17f8f/attachment.html>

From waresound at msn.com  Sat Jan 25 14:00:07 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 20:00:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheap or f.o.c. camera kit up for grabs
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02713A90DAD1E1CF4DEA42F3A7090@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

On behalf of cameraman friend of mine who chucked it all in to go and be an air traffic controller and commercial pilot:
Most of the kit that had any real value has gone to auction, but still available are the following:
GoPro Hero5 kit, 2x batts and cables, microSD, misc mounts, etc. (Waterproof, doesn?t need housing). Immaculate.
GoPro Hero4 (the last one that had separate clip-on LCD screen (inc LCD), with 2 batts, 2x 32GB SD cards, suction car mount, helmet mounts, cables etc., and waterproof housing. Old model, but also immaculate.
And: Karma stabilised mount for Hero5. (Literally only used on one job.)
Plus loads of mains cables, HDSDI-capable vids, a 16x9 6? stupidly expensive Transvideo director?s monitor with Black Box Video composite RF link from camera. 
Also, a heap of flight cases, Small Peli cases, PAG90 batts and charger (batts prob NG now)
And, loads of other redundant bits ?n bobs in cases that I haven?t even opened yet.
All negotiable at near giveaway prices, and some of it absolutely free - he just wants rid of it all. 
Don?t be shy, email me about anything you?re interested in, and your phone number, and I?ll call you back.
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

From rogerfenna at btinternet.com  Tue Jan 21 16:35:58 2020
From: rogerfenna at btinternet.com (Roger Fenna)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2020 22:35:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?b?8J+bjvCflKY=?=
Message-ID: <9310FAE2-9099-4FD2-BEBF-D65E4345E1AB@btinternet.com>





Sent from my iPad


From tonys at tonyscott.org.uk  Sat Jan 25 14:24:38 2020
From: tonys at tonyscott.org.uk (Tony Scott)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 20:24:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?b?8J+bjvCflKY=?=
In-Reply-To: <9310FAE2-9099-4FD2-BEBF-D65E4345E1AB@btinternet.com>
References: <9310FAE2-9099-4FD2-BEBF-D65E4345E1AB@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAOw_4rYG5upcG5gzr5nH_pvxa=m7xZdFvS88QuSs-nQEqjHW_w@mail.gmail.com>

Received AOK!

On Sat, 25 Jan 2020, 20:22 Roger Fenna via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200125/3ff0dba6/attachment.html>

From teateatone2 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 25 15:04:03 2020
From: teateatone2 at gmail.com (Tony Grant)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 21:04:03 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSD or HD
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJmsSmXO4LYXPBLREPprkvvrGevS4sSxtMxjtdN+wFnMHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<CAA=qGJmsSmXO4LYXPBLREPprkvvrGevS4sSxtMxjtdN+wFnMHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEMv0RMM22821eGDbqCSdgWdt03Byef36-TsT-qFLqfktOsZvA@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Keith, having got my computer guru to modify the older Mac
minis to use SSDs, they work considerably faster. But for back-up, HDs are
still cheaper, and if all does go wrong, I don't mind if it takes a few
minutes longer to reload than SSD, although I hope never to be in that
position again. Thanks to Keith's advice, I'm now looking at which HD to go
for as regards back-up prior to downloading CCC, and being lazy, I'm happy
to back up Uncle Tom Cobbley and all, as I'm not as clever or
computer-savvy as Bernie, thus simply being able to 'plug and play' a
complete reintroduction of contents is just what the doctor ordered should
the bottom drop out of my world again.

TeaTeaFN - Tony

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 6:10 PM Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> An ordinary HD is the more economic choice for backups or long-term
> storage. An SSD has the advantage of being much faster. Useful on some
> jobs. An SSD is also a better choice for laptops that are moved around a
> lot as SSDs are more robust than HDs. Many HDs can use SMART technology to
> give warning of imminent failure. I've not heard of anything similar for
> SSDs, but I wouldn't be surprised if it arrives one day.
> KW
>
> On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 at 10:55, John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Many thanks to all the Mac users who stuck their heads above the parapet
>> before the thread was hijacked by the PC boys!
>>
>> Do I go SSD or HD. There?s conflicting advice on the net.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200125/8afacb81/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 25 16:01:56 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 22:01:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSD or HD
In-Reply-To: <CAEMv0RMM22821eGDbqCSdgWdt03Byef36-TsT-qFLqfktOsZvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<CAA=qGJmsSmXO4LYXPBLREPprkvvrGevS4sSxtMxjtdN+wFnMHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEMv0RMM22821eGDbqCSdgWdt03Byef36-TsT-qFLqfktOsZvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f72f9a3b-0461-52f0-0cba-55e2b10ad040@ntlworld.com>

As a man who can write textbooks, you do yourself a disservice

B


On 25/01/2020 21:04, Tony Grant via Tech1 wrote:
> I agree with Keith, having got my computer guru to modify the older 
> Mac minis to use SSDs, they work considerably faster. But for back-up, 
> HDs are still cheaper, and if all does go wrong, I don't mind if it 
> takes a few minutes longer to reload than SSD, although I hope never 
> to be in that position again. Thanks to Keith's advice, I'm now 
> looking at which HD to go for as regards back-up prior to downloading 
> CCC, and being lazy, I'm happy to back up Uncle Tom Cobbley and all, 
> as I'm not as clever or computer-savvy as Bernie, thus simply being 
> able to 'plug and play' a complete reintroduction of contents is just 
> what the doctor ordered should the bottom drop out of my world again.
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 6:10 PM Keith Wicks via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>     An ordinary HD is the more economic choice for backups or
>     long-term storage. An SSD has the advantage of being much**faster.
>     Useful on some jobs. An SSD is also a better choice for laptops
>     that are moved around a lot as SSDs are more robust than HDs. Many
>     HDs can use SMART technology to give warningof imminent failure.
>     I've not heard of anything similar for SSDs, but I wouldn't be
>     surprised if it arrives?one day.
>     KW
>
>     On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 at 10:55, John Vincent via Tech1
>     <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>         Many thanks to all the Mac users who stuck their heads above
>         the parapet before the thread was hijacked by the PC boys!
>
>         Do I go SSD or HD. There?s conflicting advice on the net.
>
>         Sent from my iPad
>
>         -- 
>         Tech1 mailing list
>         Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>         http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200125/5edb0e0e/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 25 16:02:19 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 22:02:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSD or HD
In-Reply-To: <CAEMv0RMM22821eGDbqCSdgWdt03Byef36-TsT-qFLqfktOsZvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<CAA=qGJmsSmXO4LYXPBLREPprkvvrGevS4sSxtMxjtdN+wFnMHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEMv0RMM22821eGDbqCSdgWdt03Byef36-TsT-qFLqfktOsZvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c56b68e3-cece-a309-8969-82131ec04db6@gmail.com>

As a man who can write textbooks, you do yourself a disservice

B


On 25/01/2020 21:04, Tony Grant via Tech1 wrote:
> I agree with Keith, having got my computer guru to modify the older 
> Mac minis to use SSDs, they work considerably faster. But for back-up, 
> HDs are still cheaper, and if all does go wrong, I don't mind if it 
> takes a few minutes longer to reload than SSD, although I hope never 
> to be in that position again. Thanks to Keith's advice, I'm now 
> looking at which HD to go for as regards back-up prior to downloading 
> CCC, and being lazy, I'm happy to back up Uncle Tom Cobbley and all, 
> as I'm not as clever or computer-savvy as Bernie, thus simply being 
> able to 'plug and play' a complete reintroduction of contents is just 
> what the doctor ordered should the bottom drop out of my world again.
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 6:10 PM Keith Wicks via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>     An ordinary HD is the more economic choice for backups or
>     long-term storage. An SSD has the advantage of being much**faster.
>     Useful on some jobs. An SSD is also a better choice for laptops
>     that are moved around a lot as SSDs are more robust than HDs. Many
>     HDs can use SMART technology to give warningof imminent failure.
>     I've not heard of anything similar for SSDs, but I wouldn't be
>     surprised if it arrives?one day.
>     KW
>
>     On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 at 10:55, John Vincent via Tech1
>     <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>         Many thanks to all the Mac users who stuck their heads above
>         the parapet before the thread was hijacked by the PC boys!
>
>         Do I go SSD or HD. There?s conflicting advice on the net.
>
>         Sent from my iPad
>
>         -- 
>         Tech1 mailing list
>         Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>         http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200125/2b066471/attachment.html>

From teateatone2 at gmail.com  Sat Jan 25 16:11:12 2020
From: teateatone2 at gmail.com (Tony Grant)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 22:11:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSD or HD
In-Reply-To: <c56b68e3-cece-a309-8969-82131ec04db6@gmail.com>
References: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<CAA=qGJmsSmXO4LYXPBLREPprkvvrGevS4sSxtMxjtdN+wFnMHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEMv0RMM22821eGDbqCSdgWdt03Byef36-TsT-qFLqfktOsZvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<c56b68e3-cece-a309-8969-82131ec04db6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEMv0ROez3y1CwO_qfvnnqbNKTPr-A9OB+gELZnHG-rovsdbKg@mail.gmail.com>

You know what they say, copying from one source is plagiarism, but copying
from several is research. You may be sure that all my writing was fully
researched, and I've just deleted the last line of this email for fear of
reprisals (what's this got to do with SSD and HD anyway?) night, night.

TeaTeaFN - Tony

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 10:02 PM Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <
tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> As a man who can write textbooks, you do yourself a disservice
>
> B
>
>
> On 25/01/2020 21:04, Tony Grant via Tech1 wrote:
>
> I agree with Keith, having got my computer guru to modify the older Mac
> minis to use SSDs, they work considerably faster. But for back-up, HDs are
> still cheaper, and if all does go wrong, I don't mind if it takes a few
> minutes longer to reload than SSD, although I hope never to be in that
> position again. Thanks to Keith's advice, I'm now looking at which HD to go
> for as regards back-up prior to downloading CCC, and being lazy, I'm happy
> to back up Uncle Tom Cobbley and all, as I'm not as clever or
> computer-savvy as Bernie, thus simply being able to 'plug and play' a
> complete reintroduction of contents is just what the doctor ordered should
> the bottom drop out of my world again.
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
> On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 6:10 PM Keith Wicks via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> An ordinary HD is the more economic choice for backups or long-term
>> storage. An SSD has the advantage of being much faster. Useful on some
>> jobs. An SSD is also a better choice for laptops that are moved around a
>> lot as SSDs are more robust than HDs. Many HDs can use SMART technology to
>> give warning of imminent failure. I've not heard of anything similar for
>> SSDs, but I wouldn't be surprised if it arrives one day.
>> KW
>>
>> On Sat, 25 Jan 2020 at 10:55, John Vincent via Tech1 <
>> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Many thanks to all the Mac users who stuck their heads above the parapet
>>> before the thread was hijacked by the PC boys!
>>>
>>> Do I go SSD or HD. There?s conflicting advice on the net.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200125/9f190428/attachment.html>

From brian at mcr21.org.uk  Sat Jan 25 16:11:58 2020
From: brian at mcr21.org.uk (Brian Summers)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2020 22:11:58 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheap or f.o.c. camera kit up for grabs
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB02713A90DAD1E1CF4DEA42F3A7090@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VI1P192MB02713A90DAD1E1CF4DEA42F3A7090@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <014901d5d3cc$7622f810$6268e830$@mcr21.org.uk>

Hello Nick.

Always interested in Old camera kit for the www.TVcameramuseum.org.uk    However I suspect there is nothing really old 25+ years? But you never know! 

You may have heard of our project to restore an old BBC OB van, MCR21 www.mcr21.org.uk  . This is really very old almost 60 years ago.  There is a long list of really hard to find items at http://mcr21.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/equipment-to-be-found-and-made-2019-11.pdf  

On a wider front we are seeking photos, memories, details of the programs MCR21 worked on.....


Regards 

Brian Summers 
Broadcast Television Technology Trust
Charitable Incorporated Organisation no. 1179333
Camberley, England. 
  
Contact Email brian at mcr21.org.uk 
Find out more www.mcr21.org.uk | www.bttt.org.uk 
Support us        Make a Donation | Become a Volunteer
Phone (+44) 01276677879 




-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: 25 January 2020 20:00
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Cheap or f.o.c. camera kit up for grabs

On behalf of cameraman friend of mine who chucked it all in to go and be an air traffic controller and commercial pilot:
Most of the kit that had any real value has gone to auction, but still available are the following:
GoPro Hero5 kit, 2x batts and cables, microSD, misc mounts, etc. (Waterproof, doesn?t need housing). Immaculate.
GoPro Hero4 (the last one that had separate clip-on LCD screen (inc LCD), with 2 batts, 2x 32GB SD cards, suction car mount, helmet mounts, cables etc., and waterproof housing. Old model, but also immaculate.
And: Karma stabilised mount for Hero5. (Literally only used on one job.) Plus loads of mains cables, HDSDI-capable vids, a 16x9 6? stupidly expensive Transvideo director?s monitor with Black Box Video composite RF link from camera. 
Also, a heap of flight cases, Small Peli cases, PAG90 batts and charger (batts prob NG now) And, loads of other redundant bits ?n bobs in cases that I haven?t even opened yet.
All negotiable at near giveaway prices, and some of it absolutely free - he just wants rid of it all. 
Don?t be shy, email me about anything you?re interested in, and your phone number, and I?ll call you back.
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From waresound at msn.com  Sun Jan 26 05:06:21 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 11:06:21 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSD or HD
In-Reply-To: <CAEMv0ROez3y1CwO_qfvnnqbNKTPr-A9OB+gELZnHG-rovsdbKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<CAA=qGJmsSmXO4LYXPBLREPprkvvrGevS4sSxtMxjtdN+wFnMHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEMv0RMM22821eGDbqCSdgWdt03Byef36-TsT-qFLqfktOsZvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<c56b68e3-cece-a309-8969-82131ec04db6@gmail.com>,
	<CAEMv0ROez3y1CwO_qfvnnqbNKTPr-A9OB+gELZnHG-rovsdbKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02717EDC48D5A60C597E560DA7080@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Copying from several sources is only research if you acknowledge your sources, otherwise it?s multiple plagiarism! (But I know you know that really!)
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 25 Jan 2020, at 22:11, Tony Grant via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> You know what they say, copying from one source is plagiarism, but copying from several is research. You may be sure that all my writing was fully researched, and I've just deleted the last line of this email for fear of reprisals (what's this got to do with SSD and HD anyway?) night, night.
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony

From tony.briselden at gmail.com  Sun Jan 26 11:24:54 2020
From: tony.briselden at gmail.com (Tony Briselden)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 17:24:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <54718F05-8BF3-41F3-A964-4D277877FFF4@me.com>
References: <E3D512F3-669F-4557-89A4-706298FDD2D5@me.com>
	<54718F05-8BF3-41F3-A964-4D277877FFF4@me.com>
Message-ID: <E751DA87-56AF-431D-88BA-017AC4B29006@gmail.com>

After all the talk about Macs and Time Machine I thought it time to come out of the woodwork and admit to being a long time Mac user, I used to be a PC person because I did a lot of programming for SMEs who were obviously PC user. However I was persuaded to go to Mac when John Henshall and I started working together on various projects and he decided that was the way to go. I?ve never regretted it and am always prepared to talk about Mac to possible new users. It?s also necessary for me anyway as our village newspaper changed from paste up to Macs and Photoshop and QuarkXpress. My connection is that I look after their IT and help the two editors out when they have trouble with their machines or their software.

Perhaps I should go back to the Time Machine and backup issue. I?ve never had any issues or failures with TM but nevertheless like others have said I have additional backups for safety. 

In total I have four WD and four Toshiba external drives none of which have given me trouble.  They are 2 for TM, 2 for Lightroom, 3 for archives and the eighth drive is TM on a second older Mac running Snow Leopard for legacy programs which are still satisfactory for what I want to do. It means I don?t have to upgrade them to put on my main machine which is now running Catalina which is 64 bit and won?t run them. Sorry if the names don?t mean anything to PC users. It?s just a posh way of saying one runs version 10.6.8 and the other 10.15.2 so just by the version number you can see that it's a big gap particularly from 32 to 64 bit!

As a final comment I think I might get a copy of CCC just to see what I think of it and, dare I say, I might use it.

I?m not sure that I have added anything to the discussion other than to admit I?m a Mac user and don?t have any major problems. And a particular note for Alan is that I am a Filemaker user and that is one of the programs that I keep on my second machine. The version is  5.5 a far cry from 17.

Tony B

> On 25 Jan 2020, at 15:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> The way that Time Machine operates is it stores hourly backups for the last 24hrs, daily backups for a month and then weekly backups until its hard drive is full. That?s the time when it overwrites older backups. 
> 
> I like to think that I?m sensible about what I tell it to back up and use a pretty large hard drive, so I?m nowhere near the point yet where older data will be overwritten on my Time Machine drives. 
> 
> Apple does make this clear on their support site and stresses that because of the fact that very old data can be overwritten, it?s not intended as an archival utility or offline storage solution. 
> 
> Personally, I find it very useful, especially when I?m developing Filemaker databases as it?s a very easy way to skip back to a previous version if a modification doesn?t have the desired effect. The version of Filemaker I use doesn?t offer an ?undo? for such changes but Time Machine offers me a practical workaround.   It?s also useful for recovering files which I thought I had finished with and deleted but subsequently wish to look at again. 
> 
> If you store files in a consistent and orderly fashion, you can use Time Machine to recover earlier or deleted versions very rapidly. 
> 
> There was also a mention about not bothering to back up applications. While I agree in principle, I do back up any paid applications which I have downloaded and don?t have a physical restore disk. I?ve fallen foul of this before and while stuff in Apple?s Store can be downloaded afresh, other developers offering downloads on their own sites aren?t necessarily so accommodating.  
> 
> Alan Taylor 
> 
>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 11:18, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I use CCC as well, as I really don't see the point of Time Machine if it loses old stuff to make room for the new. (If I understand correctly).
>> 
>> I have heard that you can physically put a CCC HD into your machine if disaster strikes, which is obviously easier in some machines than others. A CCC clone should definitely be bootable, anyway.
>> 
>> 
>> Alasdair Lawrance
>> alawrance1 at me.com <mailto:alawrance1 at me.com>
>> 
>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 09:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> A complete drive clone seems a little over the top, given that much of the software is applications and system material that can easily be reloaded.  I just have nominated files and folders that get incrementally updated onto the Synology raid. I ignore all the applications and just backup the stuff I've created. Otherwise I'd need to buy 6TB of extra disc.
>>> 
>>> B
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 24/01/2020 15:18, Tony Grant via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> This thread has come at an opportune moment, as I still haven't recovered from the failure of three hard discs, one internal and two external. Whilst I think I have retrieved all files, and got a relatively new Mac mini (plus two older models) up and running Catalina, I am now pondering safe, secure and reliable back-up. Thus, I think I'm about to purchase the Carbon Copy Cloner, as it appears to cover all my needs, so my question is, can I swap back-up discs on a regular basis so's I have more than one cloned copy?
>>>> 
>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>> In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com <mailto:ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>>,
>>>>    Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>> > Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors 
>>>> > are easily available. This man explains -
>>>> 
>>>> They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
>>>> don't like the length of cable run I have.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>>>> 
>>>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk <mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk>     London SW 12
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200126/c290370c/attachment.html>

From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Jan 26 11:55:35 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 17:55:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <E751DA87-56AF-431D-88BA-017AC4B29006@gmail.com>
References: <E751DA87-56AF-431D-88BA-017AC4B29006@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DBDDC664-CEA4-4AEB-97B8-E821A62B222F@me.com>

My introduction to Macs was in 1989, when I found myself operating a New England Digital direct to disk audio system. It used a Mac and a massive ( by the standards of those days ) colour monitor, largely as a display and control system. During periods of down time, curiosity led me to exploring what these new dangled Macs could do and I discovered a built in application called HyperCard, which permitted users to programme custom software  ( called stacks ) with a rich graphics interface. I used it to create a number of utilities for the dubbing suite and clients were surprised to discover that they were all written in house. At the time, computers generally used text input and text displays. 

When the time came to replace my BBC microcomputer, I had intended to replace it with a PC running DOS, but Apple had just launched the Mac LC, which with a colour monitor ended up costing me only about 20% more than I would have spent on that PC.  I bought a Mac largely because I could see how useful HyperCard would be to me. 

As a freelancer, creating invoices, keeping tabs on which ones have been paid and handling quarterly reports for VAT are tedious tasks. I created a HyperCard stack to do this for me.  Several other freelancers used my stack, including Ian Lorrimer, who famously took on the tax people in court and gave his name to the tax exemption letter which so many of us require. 

Sadly Apple let HyperCard fade away and I found that Filemaker was the best solution for doing my accounts. It?s a relational database and can be scripted, so complex tasks and calculations can happen automatically. 

Alan Taylor

> On 26 Jan 2020, at 17:25, Tony Briselden <tony.briselden at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?After all the talk about Macs and Time Machine I thought it time to come out of the woodwork and admit to being a long time Mac user, I used to be a PC person because I did a lot of programming for SMEs who were obviously PC user. However I was persuaded to go to Mac when John Henshall and I started working together on various projects and he decided that was the way to go. I?ve never regretted it and am always prepared to talk about Mac to possible new users. It?s also necessary for me anyway as our village newspaper changed from paste up to Macs and Photoshop and QuarkXpress. My connection is that I look after their IT and help the two editors out when they have trouble with their machines or their software.
> 
> Perhaps I should go back to the Time Machine and backup issue. I?ve never had any issues or failures with TM but nevertheless like others have said I have additional backups for safety. 
> 
> In total I have four WD and four Toshiba external drives none of which have given me trouble.  They are 2 for TM, 2 for Lightroom, 3 for archives and the eighth drive is TM on a second older Mac running Snow Leopard for legacy programs which are still satisfactory for what I want to do. It means I don?t have to upgrade them to put on my main machine which is now running Catalina which is 64 bit and won?t run them. Sorry if the names don?t mean anything to PC users. It?s just a posh way of saying one runs version 10.6.8 and the other 10.15.2 so just by the version number you can see that it's a big gap particularly from 32 to 64 bit!
> 
> As a final comment I think I might get a copy of CCC just to see what I think of it and, dare I say, I might use it.
> 
> I?m not sure that I have added anything to the discussion other than to admit I?m a Mac user and don?t have any major problems. And a particular note for Alan is that I am a Filemaker user and that is one of the programs that I keep on my second machine. The version is  5.5 a far cry from 17.
> 
> Tony B
> 
>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 15:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> The way that Time Machine operates is it stores hourly backups for the last 24hrs, daily backups for a month and then weekly backups until its hard drive is full. That?s the time when it overwrites older backups. 
>> 
>> I like to think that I?m sensible about what I tell it to back up and use a pretty large hard drive, so I?m nowhere near the point yet where older data will be overwritten on my Time Machine drives. 
>> 
>> Apple does make this clear on their support site and stresses that because of the fact that very old data can be overwritten, it?s not intended as an archival utility or offline storage solution. 
>> 
>> Personally, I find it very useful, especially when I?m developing Filemaker databases as it?s a very easy way to skip back to a previous version if a modification doesn?t have the desired effect. The version of Filemaker I use doesn?t offer an ?undo? for such changes but Time Machine offers me a practical workaround.   It?s also useful for recovering files which I thought I had finished with and deleted but subsequently wish to look at again. 
>> 
>> If you store files in a consistent and orderly fashion, you can use Time Machine to recover earlier or deleted versions very rapidly. 
>> 
>> There was also a mention about not bothering to back up applications. While I agree in principle, I do back up any paid applications which I have downloaded and don?t have a physical restore disk. I?ve fallen foul of this before and while stuff in Apple?s Store can be downloaded afresh, other developers offering downloads on their own sites aren?t necessarily so accommodating.  
>> 
>> Alan Taylor 
>> 
>>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 11:18, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?I use CCC as well, as I really don't see the point of Time Machine if it loses old stuff to make room for the new. (If I understand correctly).
>>> 
>>> I have heard that you can physically put a CCC HD into your machine if disaster strikes, which is obviously easier in some machines than others. A CCC clone should definitely be bootable, anyway.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>> alawrance1 at me.com
>>> 
>>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 09:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> A complete drive clone seems a little over the top, given that much of the software is applications and system material that can easily be reloaded.  I just have nominated files and folders that get incrementally updated onto the Synology raid. I ignore all the applications and just backup the stuff I've created. Otherwise I'd need to buy 6TB of extra disc.
>>>> 
>>>> B
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 24/01/2020 15:18, Tony Grant via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> This thread has come at an opportune moment, as I still haven't recovered from the failure of three hard discs, one internal and two external. Whilst I think I have retrieved all files, and got a relatively new Mac mini (plus two older models) up and running Catalina, I am now pondering safe, secure and reliable back-up. Thus, I think I'm about to purchase the Carbon Copy Cloner, as it appears to cover all my needs, so my question is, can I swap back-up discs on a regular basis so's I have more than one cloned copy?
>>>>> 
>>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>,
>>>>>>    Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> > Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors 
>>>>>> > are easily available. This man explains -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
>>>>>> don't like the length of cable run I have.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200126/f1955628/attachment.html>

From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Sun Jan 26 12:54:01 2020
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (S. EDWARDS)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 18:54:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
References: <1DCDAA7B-0688-413E-8B81-59116D03DE93.ref@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1DCDAA7B-0688-413E-8B81-59116D03DE93@btinternet.com>

?
I recently allowed (yes it was my fault - pressure of work etc) my 1TB newish iMac to get so full that it refused to boot up!  Even the Safe Mode boot-up wouldn?t work.  I thought there may have at least been some kind of simple means/barrier where it retains enough memory to prevent this from happening but I was surprised to learn apparently not!  However, Apple Support were pretty good with help on the phone and at least we resurrected again by using an external drive to boot up from.

I?m now considering additional back-up storage via one of those portable 2TB USB powered HD units - as they are physically small enough to withstand knocks/drops etc and still remain working. A number of sources claim Western Digital have a poor record of reliability so I?ve opted for Seagate/Maxtor as a cost effective alternative. Curious how reliable are the solid state drives over the longer term with regard to the potential risk of losing info?  I also wondered if anyone uses an Azbox?  
I?m advised that although it comes at a price, external cloud storage is a good safe idea especially for phone and iPad back ups (cautiously wondering who can be trusted if I hand over all my information backed up and stored on various clouds but I wouldn?t be surprised any big brother cloud proprietor would have means of accessing my computer through other means if they really wanted to) 

As a typical average home based user storing far too many photos and documents, I have both Windows and Apple machines - since I acquired an iMac, my experience is that my life seems to have become more and more complicated on a spiralling learning curve in the quest for what initially started off trying to make my life uncomplicated. I don?t do any serious graphics or undertake editing (respecting that some guys on here will be editing/graphics/photographic professionals) so maybe it?s of no real benefit me having a Mac in my case?  I paid out what I consider to be a premium price for a premium product but Apple seem to have my hands tied (Microsoft also aren?t free from blame) and seem to have a habit of asking me for more of my hard-earned cash - expensive extra cloud storage space being their last attempt to disrupt my standard of living. 

I?m wondering if I should compare Apple to a Range Rover?   Expensive, luxury form of status symbol that doesn?t necessarily have world-class build quality or reliability and isn?t free of faults - however as you can see by the number on our roads, that doesn?t seem put people off buying them!  (No disrespect to anyone who owns one as I like Range Rovers  Hmm) 
A couple of my friends with deep pockets (when it comes to cars at least) have ones: Despite their cars having had a number of things fail at great cost together with premature corrosion problems around the wheels arches and tailgate, they still love their cars ! (yes I know the new ones are alloy) 
......If these had been Rovers 75s (despite both being UK made with a Rover badge !) they wouldn?t have tolerated any similar issues - they would have scrapped their cars, called them a bag of s**t before advising everyone they met to avoid Rover 75s like the plague at the very first opportunity if they had developed even the most minor of mechanical faults. (wasn?t Jeremy Clarkson to blame for their collapse before the Phoenix 4 finally cocked it up?)

So.... from a very general sideways look is this Apple thing really a significantly better (or worse) proposition than Windows for the average user ?
I don?t intend to start a war or turn this into a Brexit/Remain OS v PC argument or to offend die hard Apple or Windows fans in any way as I wish to remain on speaking terms. 

Steve 




> On 26 Jan 2020, at 17:25, Tony Briselden via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?After all the talk about Macs and Time Machine I thought it time to come out of the woodwork and admit to being a long time Mac user, I used to be a PC person because I did a lot of programming for SMEs who were obviously PC user. However I was persuaded to go to Mac when John Henshall and I started working together on various projects and he decided that was the way to go. I?ve never regretted it and am always prepared to talk about Mac to possible new users. It?s also necessary for me anyway as our village newspaper changed from paste up to Macs and Photoshop and QuarkXpress. My connection is that I look after their IT and help the two editors out when they have trouble with their machines or their software.
> 
> Perhaps I should go back to the Time Machine and backup issue. I?ve never had any issues or failures with TM but nevertheless like others have said I have additional backups for safety. 
> 
> In total I have four WD and four Toshiba external drives none of which have given me trouble.  They are 2 for TM, 2 for Lightroom, 3 for archives and the eighth drive is TM on a second older Mac running Snow Leopard for legacy programs which are still satisfactory for what I want to do. It means I don?t have to upgrade them to put on my main machine which is now running Catalina which is 64 bit and won?t run them. Sorry if the names don?t mean anything to PC users. It?s just a posh way of saying one runs version 10.6.8 and the other 10.15.2 so just by the version number you can see that it's a big gap particularly from 32 to 64 bit!
> 
> As a final comment I think I might get a copy of CCC just to see what I think of it and, dare I say, I might use it.
> 
> I?m not sure that I have added anything to the discussion other than to admit I?m a Mac user and don?t have any major problems. And a particular note for Alan is that I am a Filemaker user and that is one of the programs that I keep on my second machine. The version is  5.5 a far cry from 17.
> 
> Tony B
> 
>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 15:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> The way that Time Machine operates is it stores hourly backups for the last 24hrs, daily backups for a month and then weekly backups until its hard drive is full. That?s the time when it overwrites older backups. 
>> 
>> I like to think that I?m sensible about what I tell it to back up and use a pretty large hard drive, so I?m nowhere near the point yet where older data will be overwritten on my Time Machine drives. 
>> 
>> Apple does make this clear on their support site and stresses that because of the fact that very old data can be overwritten, it?s not intended as an archival utility or offline storage solution. 
>> 
>> Personally, I find it very useful, especially when I?m developing Filemaker databases as it?s a very easy way to skip back to a previous version if a modification doesn?t have the desired effect. The version of Filemaker I use doesn?t offer an ?undo? for such changes but Time Machine offers me a practical workaround.   It?s also useful for recovering files which I thought I had finished with and deleted but subsequently wish to look at again. 
>> 
>> If you store files in a consistent and orderly fashion, you can use Time Machine to recover earlier or deleted versions very rapidly. 
>> 
>> There was also a mention about not bothering to back up applications. While I agree in principle, I do back up any paid applications which I have downloaded and don?t have a physical restore disk. I?ve fallen foul of this before and while stuff in Apple?s Store can be downloaded afresh, other developers offering downloads on their own sites aren?t necessarily so accommodating.  
>> 
>> Alan Taylor 
>> 
>>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 11:18, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?I use CCC as well, as I really don't see the point of Time Machine if it loses old stuff to make room for the new. (If I understand correctly).
>>> 
>>> I have heard that you can physically put a CCC HD into your machine if disaster strikes, which is obviously easier in some machines than others. A CCC clone should definitely be bootable, anyway.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>> alawrance1 at me.com
>>> 
>>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 09:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> A complete drive clone seems a little over the top, given that much of the software is applications and system material that can easily be reloaded.  I just have nominated files and folders that get incrementally updated onto the Synology raid. I ignore all the applications and just backup the stuff I've created. Otherwise I'd need to buy 6TB of extra disc.
>>>> 
>>>> B
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 24/01/2020 15:18, Tony Grant via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> This thread has come at an opportune moment, as I still haven't recovered from the failure of three hard discs, one internal and two external. Whilst I think I have retrieved all files, and got a relatively new Mac mini (plus two older models) up and running Catalina, I am now pondering safe, secure and reliable back-up. Thus, I think I'm about to purchase the Carbon Copy Cloner, as it appears to cover all my needs, so my question is, can I swap back-up discs on a regular basis so's I have more than one cloned copy?
>>>>> 
>>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>,
>>>>>>    Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> > Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors 
>>>>>> > are easily available. This man explains -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
>>>>>> don't like the length of cable run I have.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200126/9513fc22/attachment.html>

From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Sun Jan 26 12:54:01 2020
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (S. EDWARDS)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 18:54:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
References: <1DCDAA7B-0688-413E-8B81-59116D03DE93.ref@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1DCDAA7B-0688-413E-8B81-59116D03DE93@btinternet.com>

?
I recently allowed (yes it was my fault - pressure of work etc) my 1TB newish iMac to get so full that it refused to boot up!  Even the Safe Mode boot-up wouldn?t work.  I thought there may have at least been some kind of simple means/barrier where it retains enough memory to prevent this from happening but I was surprised to learn apparently not!  However, Apple Support were pretty good with help on the phone and at least we resurrected again by using an external drive to boot up from.

I?m now considering additional back-up storage via one of those portable 2TB USB powered HD units - as they are physically small enough to withstand knocks/drops etc and still remain working. A number of sources claim Western Digital have a poor record of reliability so I?ve opted for Seagate/Maxtor as a cost effective alternative. Curious how reliable are the solid state drives over the longer term with regard to the potential risk of losing info?  I also wondered if anyone uses an Azbox?  
I?m advised that although it comes at a price, external cloud storage is a good safe idea especially for phone and iPad back ups (cautiously wondering who can be trusted if I hand over all my information backed up and stored on various clouds but I wouldn?t be surprised any big brother cloud proprietor would have means of accessing my computer through other means if they really wanted to) 

As a typical average home based user storing far too many photos and documents, I have both Windows and Apple machines - since I acquired an iMac, my experience is that my life seems to have become more and more complicated on a spiralling learning curve in the quest for what initially started off trying to make my life uncomplicated. I don?t do any serious graphics or undertake editing (respecting that some guys on here will be editing/graphics/photographic professionals) so maybe it?s of no real benefit me having a Mac in my case?  I paid out what I consider to be a premium price for a premium product but Apple seem to have my hands tied (Microsoft also aren?t free from blame) and seem to have a habit of asking me for more of my hard-earned cash - expensive extra cloud storage space being their last attempt to disrupt my standard of living. 

I?m wondering if I should compare Apple to a Range Rover?   Expensive, luxury form of status symbol that doesn?t necessarily have world-class build quality or reliability and isn?t free of faults - however as you can see by the number on our roads, that doesn?t seem put people off buying them!  (No disrespect to anyone who owns one as I like Range Rovers  Hmm) 
A couple of my friends with deep pockets (when it comes to cars at least) have ones: Despite their cars having had a number of things fail at great cost together with premature corrosion problems around the wheels arches and tailgate, they still love their cars ! (yes I know the new ones are alloy) 
......If these had been Rovers 75s (despite both being UK made with a Rover badge !) they wouldn?t have tolerated any similar issues - they would have scrapped their cars, called them a bag of s**t before advising everyone they met to avoid Rover 75s like the plague at the very first opportunity if they had developed even the most minor of mechanical faults. (wasn?t Jeremy Clarkson to blame for their collapse before the Phoenix 4 finally cocked it up?)

So.... from a very general sideways look is this Apple thing really a significantly better (or worse) proposition than Windows for the average user ?
I don?t intend to start a war or turn this into a Brexit/Remain OS v PC argument or to offend die hard Apple or Windows fans in any way as I wish to remain on speaking terms. 

Steve 




> On 26 Jan 2020, at 17:25, Tony Briselden via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?After all the talk about Macs and Time Machine I thought it time to come out of the woodwork and admit to being a long time Mac user, I used to be a PC person because I did a lot of programming for SMEs who were obviously PC user. However I was persuaded to go to Mac when John Henshall and I started working together on various projects and he decided that was the way to go. I?ve never regretted it and am always prepared to talk about Mac to possible new users. It?s also necessary for me anyway as our village newspaper changed from paste up to Macs and Photoshop and QuarkXpress. My connection is that I look after their IT and help the two editors out when they have trouble with their machines or their software.
> 
> Perhaps I should go back to the Time Machine and backup issue. I?ve never had any issues or failures with TM but nevertheless like others have said I have additional backups for safety. 
> 
> In total I have four WD and four Toshiba external drives none of which have given me trouble.  They are 2 for TM, 2 for Lightroom, 3 for archives and the eighth drive is TM on a second older Mac running Snow Leopard for legacy programs which are still satisfactory for what I want to do. It means I don?t have to upgrade them to put on my main machine which is now running Catalina which is 64 bit and won?t run them. Sorry if the names don?t mean anything to PC users. It?s just a posh way of saying one runs version 10.6.8 and the other 10.15.2 so just by the version number you can see that it's a big gap particularly from 32 to 64 bit!
> 
> As a final comment I think I might get a copy of CCC just to see what I think of it and, dare I say, I might use it.
> 
> I?m not sure that I have added anything to the discussion other than to admit I?m a Mac user and don?t have any major problems. And a particular note for Alan is that I am a Filemaker user and that is one of the programs that I keep on my second machine. The version is  5.5 a far cry from 17.
> 
> Tony B
> 
>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 15:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> The way that Time Machine operates is it stores hourly backups for the last 24hrs, daily backups for a month and then weekly backups until its hard drive is full. That?s the time when it overwrites older backups. 
>> 
>> I like to think that I?m sensible about what I tell it to back up and use a pretty large hard drive, so I?m nowhere near the point yet where older data will be overwritten on my Time Machine drives. 
>> 
>> Apple does make this clear on their support site and stresses that because of the fact that very old data can be overwritten, it?s not intended as an archival utility or offline storage solution. 
>> 
>> Personally, I find it very useful, especially when I?m developing Filemaker databases as it?s a very easy way to skip back to a previous version if a modification doesn?t have the desired effect. The version of Filemaker I use doesn?t offer an ?undo? for such changes but Time Machine offers me a practical workaround.   It?s also useful for recovering files which I thought I had finished with and deleted but subsequently wish to look at again. 
>> 
>> If you store files in a consistent and orderly fashion, you can use Time Machine to recover earlier or deleted versions very rapidly. 
>> 
>> There was also a mention about not bothering to back up applications. While I agree in principle, I do back up any paid applications which I have downloaded and don?t have a physical restore disk. I?ve fallen foul of this before and while stuff in Apple?s Store can be downloaded afresh, other developers offering downloads on their own sites aren?t necessarily so accommodating.  
>> 
>> Alan Taylor 
>> 
>>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 11:18, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> ?I use CCC as well, as I really don't see the point of Time Machine if it loses old stuff to make room for the new. (If I understand correctly).
>>> 
>>> I have heard that you can physically put a CCC HD into your machine if disaster strikes, which is obviously easier in some machines than others. A CCC clone should definitely be bootable, anyway.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>> alawrance1 at me.com
>>> 
>>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 09:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> A complete drive clone seems a little over the top, given that much of the software is applications and system material that can easily be reloaded.  I just have nominated files and folders that get incrementally updated onto the Synology raid. I ignore all the applications and just backup the stuff I've created. Otherwise I'd need to buy 6TB of extra disc.
>>>> 
>>>> B
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 24/01/2020 15:18, Tony Grant via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> This thread has come at an opportune moment, as I still haven't recovered from the failure of three hard discs, one internal and two external. Whilst I think I have retrieved all files, and got a relatively new Mac mini (plus two older models) up and running Catalina, I am now pondering safe, secure and reliable back-up. Thus, I think I'm about to purchase the Carbon Copy Cloner, as it appears to cover all my needs, so my question is, can I swap back-up discs on a regular basis so's I have more than one cloned copy?
>>>>> 
>>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>,
>>>>>>    Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> > Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors 
>>>>>> > are easily available. This man explains -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
>>>>>> don't like the length of cable run I have.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200126/9513fc22/attachment-0001.html>

From teateatone2 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 26 14:11:37 2020
From: teateatone2 at gmail.com (Tony Grant)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 20:11:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] SSD or HD
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB02717EDC48D5A60C597E560DA7080@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <A02F2E3B-293E-4074-9E6D-C89AF52ED10B@vincent68.plus.com>
	<CAA=qGJmsSmXO4LYXPBLREPprkvvrGevS4sSxtMxjtdN+wFnMHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEMv0RMM22821eGDbqCSdgWdt03Byef36-TsT-qFLqfktOsZvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<c56b68e3-cece-a309-8969-82131ec04db6@gmail.com>
	<CAEMv0ROez3y1CwO_qfvnnqbNKTPr-A9OB+gELZnHG-rovsdbKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<VI1P192MB02717EDC48D5A60C597E560DA7080@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CAEMv0RN=2Wde_WR1jnsLaO_qV1Z6ebPpgBenSLV4eTBc2Goz6g@mail.gmail.com>

Rumbled!

TeaTeaFN - Tony

On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 11:06 AM Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Copying from several sources is only research if you acknowledge your
> sources, otherwise it?s multiple plagiarism! (But I know you know that
> really!)
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
> > On 25 Jan 2020, at 22:11, Tony Grant via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > You know what they say, copying from one source is plagiarism, but
> copying from several is research. You may be sure that all my writing was
> fully researched, and I've just deleted the last line of this email for
> fear of reprisals (what's this got to do with SSD and HD anyway?) night,
> night.
> >
> > TeaTeaFN - Tony
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200126/1371cb54/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Jan 26 14:54:48 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 20:54:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <1DCDAA7B-0688-413E-8B81-59116D03DE93@btinternet.com>
References: <1DCDAA7B-0688-413E-8B81-59116D03DE93.ref@btinternet.com>
	<1DCDAA7B-0688-413E-8B81-59116D03DE93@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <b88bede5-8bab-0279-dd95-2c9505bff609@gmail.com>



On 26/01/2020 18:54, S. EDWARDS via Tech1 wrote:
>
> So.... from a very general sideways look is this Apple thing really a 
> significantly better (or worse) proposition than Windows for the 
> average user ?
>
> I don?t intend to start a war or turn this into a Brexit/Remain OS v 
> PC argument or to offend die hard Apple or Windows fans in any way as 
> I wish to remain on speaking terms.
>


When Apple dropped the Motorola Power PC chip and took up Intel, PCs and 
Macs became effectively the same thing under the bonnet, a bit like all 
those cars that turn out to be really Volkwagens.? It's perfectly 
possible to build or buy a standard box and run MacOS on it,? or you 
could run Linux, or any other operating system, all for much less money 
and much more flexibility. Using standard parts means that you don't 
suddenly find out that the cable you need is Apple specific costing 
lots, and you don't have to pay for fancy box design, and you can bung 
in another drive, and and.....??? You wouldn't buy sound gear from a 
company that didn't let you use your standard XLR cables.

But - you pays your money and you takes your choice. Just up the road 
here they build McLarens, and I see them quite a lot around the place. 
They test the brakes on? the most expensive ones - the Senna - on the 
Fairoaks runway, always an entertainment. They are terribly flashy and 
very upmarket, though in fact, just like all the other petrol cars, they 
do still have pistons going up and down inside. Personally I run a 2012 
Toyota Avensis estate,.....and my computer is a basic black box on the 
floor here, with a Core i5, a GeForce 960 and 8GB RAM.? It does the same 
jobs as any computer, and as I built it, I know what's in it. It's 
always worth, before buying any computer built by anyone, looking at the 
specs and costing some of the main individual parts. Then you get some 
idea of the profit margins. Lots, in some cases.

On the car analogy, have you noticed that all cars have the accelerator 
on the right??? They never used to, long ago. It suits everyone that you 
can switch makes and just drive off.? Is MacOS better or worse than 
Windows?? Or Ubuntu?? No, just different, and not very different at 
that, as a user experience.? Desktops are very much growing together, so 
switching machines these days isn't at all like - say - swapping from a 
BBC B to a Sinclair ZX80.

On a completely different note - someone in my U3A group asked if I knew 
how this was made - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfsogJdgr-c . I 
didn't, but now I sort of do, I think. Homework!

B

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200126/d0b44f41/attachment.html>

From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 29 05:57:32 2020
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 11:57:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Uploaded: Talk - TV Studio Engineering - to the Reading
 Society of Model Engineers
Message-ID: <5a6ae919-3871-26ef-f4e8-a83c91b05e25@gmail.com>

Hi all,

Thanks to Bernie, I have uploaded my talk to the RSME about TV Studio 
Engineering.? And grateful thanks to everyone here, as you all helped - 
directly or indirectly - with the development of this talk.

The person organising the talks made the title much wider than my 
original proposal, so there are many places you can identify as NOT 
covering TV Studio Engineering!? There are whole swathes missing - 
principally SOUND (sorry, all the sound people). - but fairly recently 
Tony Crake and Pat Heigham have written about sound activities and boom 
operation.


I have included a representation of the "flyer" used for the talk as 
page 1, as this is basically the synopsis of the talk.

http://tech-ops.co.uk/next/tv-studio-engineering-the-pre-digital-age-1/

It's a bit gaudy, but it is a flyer after all!?? There are NEXT and 
PREVIOUS arrows to go through the pages.

There are a number of Video inserts. Some play....? and some don't.? All 
prepared the same way with the same applications, same code in 
WordPress.? But? some play....? and some don't.? Sorry, I'll try to sort 
it out over time ...

------

When you find an error, please let me know and I will update the page on 
the website - can't do much about the talk, that is past! - but I will 
correct the upload where necessary.



-- 
Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502




From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Wed Jan 29 16:30:20 2020
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 22:30:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <54718F05-8BF3-41F3-A964-4D277877FFF4@me.com>
References: <E3D512F3-669F-4557-89A4-706298FDD2D5@me.com>
	<54718F05-8BF3-41F3-A964-4D277877FFF4@me.com>
Message-ID: <ff5fc654-c376-8692-01ee-c3498dc30fb3@howell61.f9.co.uk>

Time Machine helped me out of a sticky situation recently, I was 
attempting to update my operating system to Mojavi when the installation 
stopped and I got the message 'Installation Failed'. So I rebooted from 
the TM drive, selected a backup and 20 minutes later had a working Imac 
again.

Two scary moments: I had to dig out a wired mouse because the TM basic 
operating system doesn't recognise my Bluetooth cordless mouse. The 
other scary moment is when TM advises you that you are about? to erase 
your hard drive! There was nothing else for it.

I think my original problem was lack of memory, it looks like my meagre 
8GBs is not even sufficient for the basic OS so I put in a shed load and 
now have 40Gbs, but have not yet attempted going to Mojavi.

So Time Machine did OK for me.


John H.




On 25/01/2020 15:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> The way that Time Machine operates is it stores hourly backups for the 
> last 24hrs, daily backups for a month and then weekly backups until 
> its hard drive is full. That?s the time when it overwrites older backups.
>
> I like to think that I?m sensible about what I tell it to back up and 
> use a pretty large hard drive, so I?m nowhere near the point yet where 
> older data will be overwritten on my Time Machine drives.
>
> Apple does make this clear on their support site and stresses that 
> because of the fact that very old data can be overwritten, it?s not 
> intended as an archival utility or offline storage solution.
>
> Personally, I find it very useful, especially when I?m developing 
> Filemaker databases as it?s a very easy way to skip back to a previous 
> version if a modification doesn?t have the desired effect. The version 
> of Filemaker I use doesn?t offer an ?undo? for such changes but Time 
> Machine offers me a practical workaround. ? It?s also useful for 
> recovering files which I thought I had finished with and deleted but 
> subsequently wish to look at again.
>
> If you store files in a consistent and orderly fashion, you can use 
> Time Machine to recover earlier or deleted versions very rapidly.
>
> There was also a mention about not bothering to back up applications. 
> While I agree in principle, I do back up any paid applications which I 
> have downloaded and don?t have a physical restore disk. I?ve fallen 
> foul of this before and while stuff in Apple?s Store can be downloaded 
> afresh, other developers offering downloads on their own sites aren?t 
> necessarily so accommodating.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 11:18, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ? I use CCC as well, as I really don't see the point of Time Machine 
>> if it loses old stuff to make room for the new. (If I understand 
>> correctly).
>>
>> I have heard that you can physically put a CCC HD into your machine 
>> if disaster strikes, which is obviously easier in some machines than 
>> others. A CCC clone should definitely be bootable, anyway.
>>
>>
>> Alasdair Lawrance
>> alawrance1 at me.com <mailto:alawrance1 at me.com>
>>
>> /*Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.*
>> /
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 09:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>> A complete drive clone seems a little over the top, given that much 
>>> of the software is applications and system material that can easily 
>>> be reloaded.? I just have nominated files and folders that get 
>>> incrementally updated onto the Synology raid. I ignore all the 
>>> applications and just backup the stuff I've created. Otherwise I'd 
>>> need to buy 6TB of extra disc.
>>>
>>> B
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24/01/2020 15:18, Tony Grant via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> This thread has come at an opportune moment, as I still haven't 
>>>> recovered from the failure of three hard discs, one internal and 
>>>> two external. Whilst I think I have retrieved all files, and got a 
>>>> relatively new Mac mini (plus two older models) up and running 
>>>> Catalina, I am now pondering safe, secure and reliable back-up. 
>>>> Thus, I think I'm about to purchase the Carbon Copy Cloner, as it 
>>>> appears to cover all my needs, so my question is, can I swap 
>>>> back-up discs on a regular basis so's I have more than one cloned 
>>>> copy?
>>>>
>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM Dave Plowman via Tech1 
>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com
>>>>     <mailto:ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>>,
>>>>     ? ?Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>     <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>     > Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to
>>>>     USB adaptors
>>>>     > are easily available. This man explains -
>>>>
>>>>     They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial,
>>>>     and they
>>>>     don't like the length of cable run I have.
>>>>
>>>>     -- 
>>>>     *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>>>>
>>>>     ? ? Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk
>>>>     <mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk>? ? ?London SW 12
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     -- 
>>>>     Tech1 mailing list
>>>>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200129/78ae8c5a/attachment.html>

From mibridge at mac.com  Wed Jan 29 17:15:10 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 23:15:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac
In-Reply-To: <ff5fc654-c376-8692-01ee-c3498dc30fb3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <E3D512F3-669F-4557-89A4-706298FDD2D5@me.com>
	<54718F05-8BF3-41F3-A964-4D277877FFF4@me.com>
	<ff5fc654-c376-8692-01ee-c3498dc30fb3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <246825DA-A8B2-44C2-B8EC-285370BAD978@mac.com>

Scary indeed, John, but I too have been saved by a Time Machine back-up when an update wouldn?t run ~ can?t remember which version. As a consequence, I?ve started using two back-up discs, because I realised when telling the system to erase my hard-drive, that until the reload was complete, in effect  I no longer had a back-up ~ just the one version on an external hard drive. I subsequently discovered that my 2010 MacBook Pro 750GB hard disc has some failed blocks which probably explains the initial difficulty. It?s had some pretty arduous use and the battery is not in best shape, so I?ve bitten the bullet and lashed out on a new MacBook Pro, with a 1TB SSD and 16GB?a RAM, plus new external HDD for good measure. Being my first new machine for ten years, I?m suitably impressed so far, although I haven?t done anything demanding. I do hope I haven?t put the commentator?s curse on it!

I think the old machine will continue to serve as our caravan television, as the software won?t run on the new system.

Mike G

> On 29 Jan 2020, at 22:30, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Time Machine helped me out of a sticky situation recently, I was attempting to update my operating system to Mojavi when the installation stopped and I got the message 'Installation Failed'. So I rebooted from the TM drive, selected a backup and 20 minutes later had a working Imac again.
> 
> Two scary moments: I had to dig out a wired mouse because the TM basic operating system doesn't recognise my Bluetooth cordless mouse. The other scary moment is when TM advises you that you are about  to erase your hard drive! There was nothing else for it.
> 
> I think my original problem was lack of memory, it looks like my meagre 8GBs is not even sufficient for the basic OS so I put in a shed load and now have 40Gbs, but have not yet attempted going to Mojavi.
> 
> So Time Machine did OK for me.
> 
> 
> 
> John H.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 25/01/2020 15:53, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> The way that Time Machine operates is it stores hourly backups for the last 24hrs, daily backups for a month and then weekly backups until its hard drive is full. That?s the time when it overwrites older backups. 
>> 
>> I like to think that I?m sensible about what I tell it to back up and use a pretty large hard drive, so I?m nowhere near the point yet where older data will be overwritten on my Time Machine drives. 
>> 
>> Apple does make this clear on their support site and stresses that because of the fact that very old data can be overwritten, it?s not intended as an archival utility or offline storage solution. 
>> 
>> Personally, I find it very useful, especially when I?m developing Filemaker databases as it?s a very easy way to skip back to a previous version if a modification doesn?t have the desired effect. The version of Filemaker I use doesn?t offer an ?undo? for such changes but Time Machine offers me a practical workaround.   It?s also useful for recovering files which I thought I had finished with and deleted but subsequently wish to look at again. 
>> 
>> If you store files in a consistent and orderly fashion, you can use Time Machine to recover earlier or deleted versions very rapidly. 
>> 
>> There was also a mention about not bothering to back up applications. While I agree in principle, I do back up any paid applications which I have downloaded and don?t have a physical restore disk. I?ve fallen foul of this before and while stuff in Apple?s Store can be downloaded afresh, other developers offering downloads on their own sites aren?t necessarily so accommodating.  
>> 
>> Alan Taylor 
>> 
>>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 11:18, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ? I use CCC as well, as I really don't see the point of Time Machine if it loses old stuff to make room for the new. (If I understand correctly).
>>> 
>>> I have heard that you can physically put a CCC HD into your machine if disaster strikes, which is obviously easier in some machines than others. A CCC clone should definitely be bootable, anyway.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>> alawrance1 at me.com <mailto:alawrance1 at me.com>
>>> 
>>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 25 Jan 2020, at 09:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> A complete drive clone seems a little over the top, given that much of the software is applications and system material that can easily be reloaded.  I just have nominated files and folders that get incrementally updated onto the Synology raid. I ignore all the applications and just backup the stuff I've created. Otherwise I'd need to buy 6TB of extra disc.
>>>> 
>>>> B
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 24/01/2020 15:18, Tony Grant via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> This thread has come at an opportune moment, as I still haven't recovered from the failure of three hard discs, one internal and two external. Whilst I think I have retrieved all files, and got a relatively new Mac mini (plus two older models) up and running Catalina, I am now pondering safe, secure and reliable back-up. Thus, I think I'm about to purchase the Carbon Copy Cloner, as it appears to cover all my needs, so my question is, can I swap back-up discs on a regular basis so's I have more than one cloned copy?
>>>>> 
>>>>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>> In article <ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com <mailto:ad65cb26-9b95-ce9b-b400-d253a75d40c6 at ntlworld.com>>,
>>>>>    Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>> > Motherboards only have USB ports these days, but serial to USB adaptors 
>>>>> > are easily available. This man explains -
>>>>> 
>>>>> They are indeed. But USB is nothing like as robust as serial, and they
>>>>> don't like the length of cable run I have.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> *If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?
>>>>> 
>>>>>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk <mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk>     London SW 12
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200129/28e529f8/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 30 05:12:47 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 11:12:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac memory
In-Reply-To: <ff5fc654-c376-8692-01ee-c3498dc30fb3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <E3D512F3-669F-4557-89A4-706298FDD2D5@me.com>
	<54718F05-8BF3-41F3-A964-4D277877FFF4@me.com>
	<ff5fc654-c376-8692-01ee-c3498dc30fb3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <cba80756-28ca-e8fd-d2a4-77e99d56e5e1@ntlworld.com>



On 29/01/2020 22:30, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
> it looks like my meagre 8GBs is not even sufficient for the basic OS 
> so I put in a shed load and now have 40Gbs,


That is a serious amount of memory!

It prompted me to try testing out my system a little (discovering in the 
processor that I put in 16GB RAM, not 8).? I ran Performance Monitor and 
rendered some opening titles, for this U3A piece - 
http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/bern/U3A/mug_cake/complete_mug_cake.mp4 
<http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/bern/U3A/mug_cake/complete_mug_cake.mp4>
It briefly maxed out my Core i5 9600K processor, but didn't use all the RAM.

Has anyone yet tried a super new wizzo NVMe M2 SSD? (like this - 
https://bit.ly/2RC5a7s)??? My new Gigabyte motherboard has slots for two 
of them, but I haven't got as far as trying them out yet.

B



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200130/89ba76c2/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 30 05:19:52 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 11:19:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac memory
In-Reply-To: <ff5fc654-c376-8692-01ee-c3498dc30fb3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <E3D512F3-669F-4557-89A4-706298FDD2D5@me.com>
	<54718F05-8BF3-41F3-A964-4D277877FFF4@me.com>
	<ff5fc654-c376-8692-01ee-c3498dc30fb3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <d7349c8e-fbc7-545d-edc9-704d3d71a89e@gmail.com>



On 29/01/2020 22:30, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
> it looks like my meagre 8GBs is not even sufficient for the basic OS 
> so I put in a shed load and now have 40Gbs,


That is a serious amount of memory!

It prompted me to try testing out my system a little (discovering in the 
processor that I put in 16GB RAM, not 8).? I ran Performance Monitor and 
rendered some opening titles, for this U3A piece - 
http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/bern/U3A/mug_cake/complete_mug_cake.mp4 
<http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/bern/U3A/mug_cake/complete_mug_cake.mp4>
It briefly maxed out my Core i5 9600K processor, but didn't use all the RAM.

Has anyone yet tried a super new wizzo NVMe M2 SSD? (like this - 
https://bit.ly/2RC5a7s)??? My new Gigabyte motherboard has slots for two 
of them, but I haven't got as far as trying them out yet.

B



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200130/4ee0ec62/attachment.html>

From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Jan 30 05:55:09 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 11:55:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] iMac memory
In-Reply-To: <cba80756-28ca-e8fd-d2a4-77e99d56e5e1@ntlworld.com>
References: <E3D512F3-669F-4557-89A4-706298FDD2D5@me.com>
	<54718F05-8BF3-41F3-A964-4D277877FFF4@me.com>
	<ff5fc654-c376-8692-01ee-c3498dc30fb3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<cba80756-28ca-e8fd-d2a4-77e99d56e5e1@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <909A788D-FEE5-408C-9F04-D6A9FD73B6B1@me.com>

It is indeed a fair bit of RAM but depending on what John is doing with his Mac, it could make a huge difference.

Operations such as video editing or Photoshop graphics work will make excellent use of all the RAM available and work drastically faster.  Multitasking ( running multiple applications simultaneously ) works best with lots of RAM too.

It always used to be advised that users should upgrade RAM to the max when buying a new Mac, but these days, graphics cards also handle some of the grunt work and the system software is much more efficient in the way that it uses RAM, so the benefits of having maximum RAM are less than they used to be, while some pro Macs can take staggering amounts of RAM which would cost a fortune, but it all comes down to what the Mac is being used for and how constrained your budget is.

By the way, the largest amount of RAM that can be fitted into the 12x 128GB slots of the current Mac pro 28 core model is 1.5TB - if your pockets are deep enough.  As Crocodile Dundee never said, "40 Gig is not a serious amount of RAM,?   1.5 TB is a serious amount of RAM".

Alan Taylor





On 30 Jan 2020, at 30 Jan . 11:12, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> 
> 
> On 29/01/2020 22:30, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
>> it looks like my meagre 8GBs is not even sufficient for the basic OS so I put in a shed load and now have 40Gbs,
> 
> 
> That is a serious amount of memory!   

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200130/7ed882ed/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 31 04:47:11 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 10:47:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Energy costs (continued)
Message-ID: <5727b112-ae5a-c794-fc5e-405a557fa6b1@gmail.com>

So now I've switched from Ovo to Shell, a pretty painless process.

Having stayed with Ovo for two years because I liked their ethics, I 
discovered in the second year that they were just like all the others, 
and had put the price up.

The process is nearly complete now -

1) I looked up the comparison sites? till I found a deal I liked. It 
helped enormously that Ovo told me exactly how much energy I use (pretty 
much the same from year to year)

2)? I picked a deal with Shell and ticked a few boxes, filled in my name.

3)? Shell said hello, thanks for joining, and later asked for my bank 
details for the direct debit. Then it went quiet for a while.

4) Shell asked me last week to read my meters.? As they are smart meters 
I actually had to look up how to do that (Press 9). Also, since we went 
smart, the gas meter, at the back of a cupboard had become covered up. I 
wasn't well that day, so my wife Pauline crawled in with a torch.

5)? Ovo, it turns out, had also read the meters, and disagreed with my 
gas reading, but as we were a few hours after them, it wasn't 
surprising. "Bank error in your favour" as it says in Monopoly.

6)? Not yet happened - Shell hope to take over the smart meters without 
any more effort from me. They seem extremely common, but if not I'm sure 
Shell will do something about it.

Basically - extremely easy, for those out there who don't switch. In 
this large old draughty Victorian house I'll be saving around ?50 a 
month on Ovo's second year, - not to be sniffed at -? so my motto stands? -

*Change Every Year! *

You know it makes sense.

B





My yearly contract with Ovo has come up for renewal for the second time, 
and I remembered that last year I asked what others were paying.

I normally change supplier each year, and two years ago I moved from 
First Utility to Ovo. They were on the various switching sites lists, 
and I liked their ethics. This time last year I stayed with them for 
that reason. Mistake!? The price in the second year turned out to be up 
quite a bit, and I was pleased when this year's end of contract notice 
arrived a couple of days ago.

I usually wander round the switching sites and see what available, and 
this is what I did again, starting this time with uSwitch. There seem to 
be lots of small eager companies I've never heard of out there, but on 
Comparethemeerkat there was Shell Energy with a good deal, and I took 
that.? Shell is, I believe, quite a big company.? So, here are the rates 
from Ovo and Shell - it's obvious why I'm changing again -

Gas
Ovo Unit rate? - 3.72 per kWh.
Shell unit rate? - 2.826 per kWh

Ovo standing charge - 27.4p per day.
Shell standing charge - 16.91p per day

-----------------------

Electricity
Ovo Unit rate? - 17.28 per kWh.
Shell unit rate? - 15.93 per kWh

Ovo standing charge - 27.40p per day.
Shell standing charge - 23.44p per day

So - what are others paying? Is this a reasonable deal?? Do you change 
each year, as I should have last year?

B
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200131/f40ebc1a/attachment.html>

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 31 05:10:47 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 11:10:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
Message-ID: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>

Energy companies, including Shell and Ovo, are very big on saying how 
they use renewables.?? All good stuff, but what happens when you get a 
big blocking high pressure system and all the windmills stop?

It would be really good if someone managed to make fusion work, but it's 
always been "ten years away", through my whole life, I think.? For at 
least a decade now, successive governments have preferred to play party 
politics than actually get their energy act together, so we have huge 
slow nuclear projects that will probably not be ready in time to stop 
the brown outs.

Meanwhile, Rolls Royce have been saying "We can do that" and seem to 
have been largely ignored. RR are really good at building small, 
extremely safe, nuclear reactors - and they put them in submarines, 
right next to people who live with them for months on end.? It's a very 
proven technology - it doesn't solve the "where do we put the left 
overs?" problem, but we have that anyway.

Finally, I think someone high up has noticed -
https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/ 


The parts arrive on lorries, apparently. There is an old rumour that in 
the sub-sub-sub basement under Whitehall one of them has been running 
for many years.

B

<https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200131/54d08a14/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Fri Jan 31 05:13:40 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 11:13:40 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Energy costs (continued)
In-Reply-To: <5727b112-ae5a-c794-fc5e-405a557fa6b1@gmail.com>
References: <5727b112-ae5a-c794-fc5e-405a557fa6b1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <583aee0f27dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <5727b112-ae5a-c794-fc5e-405a557fa6b1 at gmail.com>,
   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Basically - extremely easy, for those out there who don't switch. In 
> this large old draughty Victorian house I'll be saving around ?50 a 
> month on Ovo's second year, - not to be sniffed at -  so my motto stands  -


Think I've said Flipper does all this for me. And does tend to Flip me to
a new supplier about once a year. Just had an email from them saying
they're about to Flip me from People's Energy in a few weeks once there is
no longer an exit fee from them. But not yet said who to.

Same sort of house. Total energy bills about ?2000 a year.

-- 
*IF ONE SYNCHRONIZED SWIMMER DROWNS, DO THE REST DROWN TOO?

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Jan 31 06:03:10 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 12:03:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>
References: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C69E5F1E-F88A-4E74-B093-4ED3E0FFC358@me.com>

With regard to renewables, I?d prefer more development in tidal energy for the UK.  Obviously you only get energy at certain states of the tide, but the nature of our tides means that there is always somewhere in the UK where the tides are favourable and we have higher tidal ranges than most countries. 

Unfortunately politicians regard tidal energy as an excuse to build massive barrages, or to refuse to consider such schemes because of the cost of building barrages,  but there are other options which are smaller in scale and with fewer environmental issues. 

Alan Taylor

> On 31 Jan 2020, at 11:11, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Energy companies, including Shell and Ovo, are very big on saying how they use renewables.   All good stuff, but what happens when you get a big blocking high pressure system and all the windmills stop?
> 
> It would be really good if someone managed to make fusion work, but it's always been "ten years away", through my whole life, I think.  For at least a decade now, successive governments have preferred to play party politics than actually get their energy act together, so we have huge slow nuclear projects that will probably not be ready in time to stop the brown outs.
> 
> Meanwhile, Rolls Royce have been saying "We can do that" and seem to have been largely ignored. RR are really good at building small, extremely safe, nuclear reactors - and they put them in submarines, right next to people who live with them for months on end.  It's a very proven technology - it doesn't solve the "where do we put the left overs?" problem, but we have that anyway.  
> 
> Finally, I think someone high up has noticed - 
> https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/ 
> 
> The parts arrive on lorries, apparently. There is an old rumour that in the sub-sub-sub basement under Whitehall one of them has been running for many years.
> 
> B
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200131/be578b12/attachment.html>

From dave at davesound.co.uk  Fri Jan 31 08:00:33 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 14:00:33 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>
References: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <583afd569cdave@davesound.co.uk>

I read about the RR claims with interest. And did wonder why they've
decided to talk about it now - given how long they've been making small
nuclear power plants?

Love the 'we only supply 'renewable energy to you' That would mean a
special supply direct to your house. ;-) Or a power cut when the wind
isn't blowing enough. 


In article <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7 at gmail.com>,
   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Energy companies, including Shell and Ovo, are very big on saying how 
> they use renewables.   All good stuff, but what happens when you get a 
> big blocking high pressure system and all the windmills stop?

> It would be really good if someone managed to make fusion work, but it's 
> always been "ten years away", through my whole life, I think.  For at 
> least a decade now, successive governments have preferred to play party 
> politics than actually get their energy act together, so we have huge 
> slow nuclear projects that will probably not be ready in time to stop 
> the brown outs.

> Meanwhile, Rolls Royce have been saying "We can do that" and seem to 
> have been largely ignored. RR are really good at building small, 
> extremely safe, nuclear reactors - and they put them in submarines, 
> right next to people who live with them for months on end.  It's a very 
> proven technology - it doesn't solve the "where do we put the left 
> overs?" problem, but we have that anyway.

> Finally, I think someone high up has noticed -
> https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/ 


> The parts arrive on lorries, apparently. There is an old rumour that in 
> the sub-sub-sub basement under Whitehall one of them has been running 
> for many years.

> B

> <https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/>

-- 
*A bicycle can't stand alone because it's two tyred.*

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 31 09:05:09 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 15:05:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] You can tell I'm stuck at home with not much to do....
Message-ID: <2d3498ea-e304-ae6d-2dcc-1eb12a7f4215@gmail.com>

As a fan of Star Trek stuff, I've looked forward to seeing Picard, which 
came out on Amazon Prime in this country last week.? I avoid having 
Amazon Prime, so I was interested to discover that the first episode is, 
for a limited time, free on YouTube

But - as one discovers when one follows the link - 
https://youtu.be/1PPm5l3o2zw? - you can't watch it outside the US. Time 
for lateral thinking......

There's a browser called Tor, supported by the US DoD, that allows you 
to be anywhere in the world.? It's easy to download, but moving oneself 
to the US is a little fiddly, so I thought I'd pass on the fix now that 
I know it.

In the Tor folder there's a file called torrc.?? Change it in Notepad by 
adding the lines -

EntryNodes {us} StrictNodes 1
ExitNodes {us} StrictNodes 1/

/Save and restart Tor. Now you're in the US.

Engage!

B

PS there are other ways to watch Picard and lots of other stuff, that my 
son showed me.


//
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200131/e78d01d9/attachment.html>

From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Fri Jan 31 11:33:00 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 17:33:00 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>
References: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bcafbbbd-4222-11f5-1398-41ec3004b244@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 31/01/2020 11:10, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
> ..... it doesn't solve the "where do we put the left overs?" problem, 
> but we have that anyway.

But the left-over bit ~does~ matter.

We're in the current mess because we've always assumed that we can dump 
any amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, and any amount of crap in the 
oceans. Suddenly those "sinks" are no longer "infinite".

The nuclear industry has the same unreformed attitude - the input side 
is fine for them, and someone else can take care of the mucky output. 
For them it doesn't come into the costings.

We simply do not have a way of getting rid of radioactive material with 
a half-life of even hundreds of years, let alone thousands; and adding 
to the pile in the hope that someone else will manage to dispose of it 
makes no sense at all.

Chris Woolf

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200131/8956b2bb/attachment.html>

From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Fri Jan 31 12:05:36 2020
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 18:05:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] You can tell I'm stuck at home with not much to do....
In-Reply-To: <2d3498ea-e304-ae6d-2dcc-1eb12a7f4215@gmail.com>
References: <2d3498ea-e304-ae6d-2dcc-1eb12a7f4215@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJkU=tv42UmnFxkeJL0jck6iRmRccNq=oiczv3id2yyPLg@mail.gmail.com>

I think it's much simpler to use a VPN for things like this.
The one i use is Touch VPN ? much faster than some others I've tried.
KW


On Fri, 31 Jan 2020 at 15:05, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <
tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> As a fan of Star Trek stuff, I've looked forward to seeing Picard, which
> came out on Amazon Prime in this country last week.  I avoid having Amazon
> Prime, so I was interested to discover that the first episode is, for a
> limited time, free on YouTube
>
> But - as one discovers when one follows the link -
> https://youtu.be/1PPm5l3o2zw  - you can't watch it outside the US. Time
> for lateral thinking......
>
> There's a browser called Tor, supported by the US DoD, that allows you to
> be anywhere in the world.  It's easy to download, but moving oneself to the
> US is a little fiddly, so I thought I'd pass on the fix now that I know it.
>
> In the Tor folder there's a file called torrc.   Change it in Notepad by
> adding the lines -
>
> EntryNodes {us} StrictNodes 1
> ExitNodes {us} StrictNodes 1
>
> Save and restart Tor. Now you're in the US.
>
> Engage!
>
> B
>
> PS there are other ways to watch Picard and lots of other stuff, that my
> son showed me.
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200131/c07cc533/attachment.html>

From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Fri Jan 31 12:21:21 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 18:21:21 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <C69E5F1E-F88A-4E74-B093-4ED3E0FFC358@me.com>
References: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>
	<C69E5F1E-F88A-4E74-B093-4ED3E0FFC358@me.com>
Message-ID: <3A7DA8D2665E469EBBB0128F8D36C9B5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Picking up on Alan?s mention of tidal energy I wonder if there is much awareness in the UK of the scheme centred on Alderney? My wife and I have something of a love affair with the island and although it is now almost five years since we last visited we try to follow developments there including the tidal energy scheme based on seabed turbines in ?The Race?, the 8 mile wide section of the English Channel between the island and the Normandy coast.

The Race boasts the most powerful tidal movement in Europe (some say in the world) so the incentive is huge. So is the development cost which has been no small factor in the slow pace to implementation ? the process began certainly 15 years ago. Current expectation (pardon the pun!) is for in excess of 250 turbines generating some 400 Megawatts. Possibly up and running by 2022 though as with most huge projects target dates have come and gone and so might this one. Obviously an island oft described as ?2000 alcoholics clinging to a rock? doesn?t need 400 Megawatts so the bulk of the output is destined for France. The installation will be in Alderney?s territorial waters however so the benefit to the island?s economy will be huge. Present electricity supply on the island is achieved by diesel generators, all the fuel having to be shipped in with a resulting cost to the consumer of approximately double the unit charge on Jersey. 

With the possible exception of Iona I think Alderney must be the most peaceful place I have visited in the British Isles. If it wasn?t quite so expensive to get to it would have my unreserved recommendation for ?getting away from it all?.

Dave Newbitt.

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 12:03 PM
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Slightly different energy

With regard to renewables, I?d prefer more development in tidal energy for the UK.  Obviously you only get energy at certain states of the tide, but the nature of our tides means that there is always somewhere in the UK where the tides are favourable and we have higher tidal ranges than most countries. 

Unfortunately politicians regard tidal energy as an excuse to build massive barrages, or to refuse to consider such schemes because of the cost of building barrages,  but there are other options which are smaller in scale and with fewer environmental issues. 

Alan Taylor


  On 31 Jan 2020, at 11:11, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


  ? Energy companies, including Shell and Ovo, are very big on saying how they use renewables.   All good stuff, but what happens when you get a big blocking high pressure system and all the windmills stop?

  It would be really good if someone managed to make fusion work, but it's always been "ten years away", through my whole life, I think.  For at least a decade now, successive governments have preferred to play party politics than actually get their energy act together, so we have huge slow nuclear projects that will probably not be ready in time to stop the brown outs.

  Meanwhile, Rolls Royce have been saying "We can do that" and seem to have been largely ignored. RR are really good at building small, extremely safe, nuclear reactors - and they put them in submarines, right next to people who live with them for months on end.  It's a very proven technology - it doesn't solve the "where do we put the left overs?" problem, but we have that anyway.  

  Finally, I think someone high up has noticed - 
  https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/ 

  The parts arrive on lorries, apparently. There is an old rumour that in the sub-sub-sub basement under Whitehall one of them has been running for many years.

  B

  -- 
  Tech1 mailing list
  Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
  http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200131/7fc1a2bd/attachment.html>

From alawrance1 at me.com  Fri Jan 31 13:06:50 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 19:06:50 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] You can tell I'm stuck at home with not much to do....
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJkU=tv42UmnFxkeJL0jck6iRmRccNq=oiczv3id2yyPLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA=qGJkU=tv42UmnFxkeJL0jck6iRmRccNq=oiczv3id2yyPLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B552C80B-ECA1-49EE-8207-D54C409D892C@me.com>

I use Nord, which seemed a bit flaky at first, but now seems to have settled down.  

Some countries are noticeably slower than others.  I wonder why?

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 31 Jan 2020, at 18:06, Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I think it's much simpler to use a VPN for things like this. 
> The one i use is Touch VPN ? much faster than some others I've tried.
> KW
> 
> 
>> On Fri, 31 Jan 2020 at 15:05, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> As a fan of Star Trek stuff, I've looked forward to seeing Picard, which came out on Amazon Prime in this country last week.  I avoid having Amazon Prime, so I was interested to discover that the first episode is, for a limited time, free on YouTube
>> 
>> But - as one discovers when one follows the link - https://youtu.be/1PPm5l3o2zw  - you can't watch it outside the US. Time for lateral thinking......
>> 
>> There's a browser called Tor, supported by the US DoD, that allows you to be anywhere in the world.  It's easy to download, but moving oneself to the US is a little fiddly, so I thought I'd pass on the fix now that I know it.
>> 
>> In the Tor folder there's a file called torrc.   Change it in Notepad by adding the lines - 
>> 
>> EntryNodes {us} StrictNodes 1
>> ExitNodes {us} StrictNodes 1
>> 
>> Save and restart Tor. Now you're in the US.
>> 
>> Engage!
>> 
>> B
>> 
>> PS there are other ways to watch Picard and lots of other stuff, that my son showed me.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200131/fb927f6d/attachment.html>

From mibridge at mac.com  Fri Jan 31 16:52:17 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2020 22:52:17 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Energy costs (continued)
In-Reply-To: <5727b112-ae5a-c794-fc5e-405a557fa6b1@gmail.com>
References: <5727b112-ae5a-c794-fc5e-405a557fa6b1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CF25246-824B-42F4-9045-8C0DC8DE37BD@mac.com>

I?m with Look After My Bills and after just one year they?ve just switched me from Tonik, (who were cheaper on a green tariff than British Gas on a standard tariff), to People?s Energy.

Seems painless so far.

Mike G


> On 31 Jan 2020, at 10:47, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> So now I've switched from Ovo to Shell, a pretty painless process.
> 
> Having stayed with Ovo for two years because I liked their ethics, I discovered in the second year that they were just like all the others, and had put the price up. 
> 
> The process is nearly complete now - 
> 
> 1) I looked up the comparison sites  till I found a deal I liked. It helped enormously that Ovo told me exactly how much energy I use (pretty much the same from year to year)
> 
> 2)  I picked a deal with Shell and ticked a few boxes, filled in my name.
> 
> 3)  Shell said hello, thanks for joining, and later asked for my bank details for the direct debit. Then it went quiet for a while.
> 
> 4) Shell asked me last week to read my meters.  As they are smart meters I actually had to look up how to do that (Press 9). Also, since we went smart, the gas meter, at the back of a cupboard had become covered up. I wasn't well that day, so my wife Pauline crawled in with a torch.
> 
> 5)  Ovo, it turns out, had also read the meters, and disagreed with my gas reading, but as we were a few hours after them, it wasn't surprising. "Bank error in your favour" as it says in Monopoly.
> 
> 6)  Not yet happened - Shell hope to take over the smart meters without any more effort from me. They seem extremely common, but if not I'm sure Shell will do something about it.
> 
> Basically - extremely easy, for those out there who don't switch. In this large old draughty Victorian house I'll be saving around ?50 a month on Ovo's second year, - not to be sniffed at -  so my motto stands  - 
> 
> Change Every Year! 
> 
> You know it makes sense.
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My yearly contract with Ovo has come up for renewal for the second time, and I remembered that last year I asked what others were paying. 
> 
> I normally change supplier each year, and two years ago I moved from First Utility to Ovo. They were on the various switching sites lists, and I liked their ethics. This time last year I stayed with them for that reason. Mistake!  The price in the second year turned out to be up quite a bit, and I was pleased when this year's end of contract notice arrived a couple of days ago.
> 
> I usually wander round the switching sites and see what available, and this is what I did again, starting this time with uSwitch. There seem to be lots of small eager companies I've never heard of out there, but on Comparethemeerkat there was Shell Energy with a good deal, and I took that.  Shell is, I believe, quite a big company.  So, here are the rates from Ovo and Shell - it's obvious why I'm changing again - 
> 
> Gas
> Ovo Unit rate  - 3.72 per kWh.  
> Shell unit rate  - 2.826 per kWh
> 
> Ovo standing charge - 27.4p per day. 
> Shell standing charge - 16.91p per day
> 
> -----------------------
> 
> Electricity
> Ovo Unit rate  - 17.28 per kWh.  
> Shell unit rate  - 15.93 per kWh
> 
> Ovo standing charge - 27.40p per day. 
> Shell standing charge - 23.44p per day
> 
> So - what are others paying? Is this a reasonable deal?  Do you change each year, as I should have last year?
> 
> B
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200131/855422a0/attachment.html>

From nick at nickway.co.uk  Fri Jan 31 23:39:51 2020
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 05:39:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] You can tell I'm stuck at home with not much to do....
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJkU=tv42UmnFxkeJL0jck6iRmRccNq=oiczv3id2yyPLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d3498ea-e304-ae6d-2dcc-1eb12a7f4215@gmail.com>
	<CAA=qGJkU=tv42UmnFxkeJL0jck6iRmRccNq=oiczv3id2yyPLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <587714740.71747.1580535591601@email.ionos.co.uk>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://tech-ops.co.uk/pipermail/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk/attachments/20200201/3b641f4e/attachment.html>