From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Sat Feb  1 02:38:09 2020
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:38:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] You can tell I'm stuck at home with not much to do....
In-Reply-To: <587714740.71747.1580535591601@email.ionos.co.uk>
References: <2d3498ea-e304-ae6d-2dcc-1eb12a7f4215@gmail.com>
	<CAA=qGJkU=tv42UmnFxkeJL0jck6iRmRccNq=oiczv3id2yyPLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<587714740.71747.1580535591601@email.ionos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJkswZr+XPkXzrs=2Wmaqjm1GEAqXzQB=CVUa175CGuD-w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Nick. Interesting to hear about the limitations of Express VPN . I'd
also like to know how you find Touch VPN compares. The incentive for you to
consider it is that Touch VPN costs $99.99 less than Express VPN.
KW
On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 at 05:40, Nick Way <nick at nickway.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I woke up my Express VPN account having just moved to Dubai. I first used
> it in PyeongChang at the last Winter Olympics. It works really well and
> logs into East London. I use it for WhatsApp voice and video calls to the
> family in the UK as they are blocked here even though words and pictures
> aren't. I can watch BBC iPlayer easily but the downloads don't work. I've
> paid 99.99 USD for the year which I think is not unreasonable.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Nick Way
>
> On 31 January 2020 at 18:05 Keith Wicks via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> I think it's much simpler to use a VPN for things like this.
> The one i use is Touch VPN ? much faster than some others I've tried.
> KW
>
>
> On Fri, 31 Jan 2020 at 15:05, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> As a fan of Star Trek stuff, I've looked forward to seeing Picard, which
> came out on Amazon Prime in this country last week.  I avoid having Amazon
> Prime, so I was interested to discover that the first episode is, for a
> limited time, free on YouTube
>
> But - as one discovers when one follows the link -
> https://youtu.be/1PPm5l3o2zw  - you can't watch it outside the US. Time
> for lateral thinking......
>
> There's a browser called Tor, supported by the US DoD, that allows you to
> be anywhere in the world.  It's easy to download, but moving oneself to the
> US is a little fiddly, so I thought I'd pass on the fix now that I know it.
>
> In the Tor folder there's a file called torrc.   Change it in Notepad by
> adding the lines -
>
> EntryNodes {us} StrictNodes 1
> ExitNodes {us} StrictNodes 1
>
> Save and restart Tor. Now you're in the US.
>
> Engage!
>
> B
>
> PS there are other ways to watch Picard and lots of other stuff, that my
> son showed me.
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
>
>
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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Sat Feb  1 02:59:03 2020
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 08:59:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] You can tell I'm stuck at home with not much to do....
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJkswZr+XPkXzrs=2Wmaqjm1GEAqXzQB=CVUa175CGuD-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d3498ea-e304-ae6d-2dcc-1eb12a7f4215@gmail.com>
	<CAA=qGJkU=tv42UmnFxkeJL0jck6iRmRccNq=oiczv3id2yyPLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<587714740.71747.1580535591601@email.ionos.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJkswZr+XPkXzrs=2Wmaqjm1GEAqXzQB=CVUa175CGuD-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <653845611.72498.1580547543609@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Sat Feb  1 03:27:36 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 09:27:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] You can tell I'm stuck at home with not much to do....
In-Reply-To: <653845611.72498.1580547543609@email.ionos.co.uk>
References: <2d3498ea-e304-ae6d-2dcc-1eb12a7f4215@gmail.com>
	<CAA=qGJkU=tv42UmnFxkeJL0jck6iRmRccNq=oiczv3id2yyPLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<587714740.71747.1580535591601@email.ionos.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJkswZr+XPkXzrs=2Wmaqjm1GEAqXzQB=CVUa175CGuD-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<653845611.72498.1580547543609@email.ionos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1c1cbddf-c869-8142-6351-ef0673144a70@imixmics.co.uk>

All this VPN stuff is making my head hurt.

So if I get myself (on/onto?) a VPN, whether it's paid or free, I'm 
still putting my data & activities out there somewhere. Who's to say 
that the VPN company aren't flogging my data to others, be they 
businesses or foreign governments or criminals? It seems to me much like 
storing data in/on The Cloud - dodgy.

John

On 01/02/2020 08:59, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote:
> Hi Keith,
> Thanks for the recommendation - appreciated. I'll check it tonight and 
> report back.
> I believe I can cancel within a certain number of days.
> With best wishes,
> Nick Way
>> On 01 February 2020 at 08:38 Keith Wicks <keithwicksuk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Nick. Interesting to hear about the limitations of Express VPN . 
>> I'd also like to know how you find Touch VPN compares. The incentive 
>> for you to consider it is that Touch VPN costs $99.99 less than 
>> Express VPN.
>> KW
>>
>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 at 05:40, Nick Way < nick at nickway.co.uk 
>> <mailto:nick at nickway.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>     __
>>     Hi All,
>>
>>     I woke up my Express VPN account having just moved to Dubai. I
>>     first used it in PyeongChang at the last Winter Olympics. It works
>>     really well and logs into East London. I use it for WhatsApp voice
>>     and video calls to the family in the UK as they are blocked here
>>     even though words and pictures aren't. I can watch BBC iPlayer
>>     easily but the downloads don't work. I've paid 99.99 USD for the
>>     year which I think is not unreasonable.
>>
>>     Cheers,
>>
>>     Nick Way
>>>     On 31 January 2020 at 18:05 Keith Wicks via Tech1 <
>>>     tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     I think it's much simpler to use a VPN for things like this.
>>>     The one i use is Touch VPN ? much faster than some others I've
>>>     tried.
>>>     KW
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Fri, 31 Jan 2020 at 15:05, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <
>>>     tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         As a fan of Star Trek stuff, I've looked forward to seeing
>>>         Picard, which came out on Amazon Prime in this country last
>>>         week.? I avoid having Amazon Prime, so I was interested to
>>>         discover that the first episode is, for a limited time, free
>>>         on YouTube
>>>
>>>         But - as one discovers when one follows the link -
>>>         https://youtu.be/1PPm5l3o2zw? - you can't watch it outside
>>>         the US. Time for lateral thinking......
>>>
>>>         There's a browser called Tor, supported by the US DoD, that
>>>         allows you to be anywhere in the world.? It's easy to
>>>         download, but moving oneself to the US is a little fiddly, so
>>>         I thought I'd pass on the fix now that I know it.
>>>
>>>         In the Tor folder there's a file called torrc.?? Change it in
>>>         Notepad by adding the lines -
>>>
>>>         EntryNodes {us} StrictNodes 1
>>>         ExitNodes {us} StrictNodes 1/
>>>
>>>         /Save and restart Tor. Now you're in the US.
>>>
>>>         Engage!
>>>
>>>         B
>>>
>>>         PS there are other ways to watch Picard and lots of other
>>>         stuff, that my son showed me.
>>>
>>>
>>>         -- 
>>>         Tech1 mailing list
>>>         Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>         http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>>     -- 
>>>     Tech1 mailing list
>>>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
> 
> 



From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  1 04:05:09 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 10:05:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] You can tell I'm stuck at home with not much to do....
In-Reply-To: <1c1cbddf-c869-8142-6351-ef0673144a70@imixmics.co.uk>
References: <2d3498ea-e304-ae6d-2dcc-1eb12a7f4215@gmail.com>
	<CAA=qGJkU=tv42UmnFxkeJL0jck6iRmRccNq=oiczv3id2yyPLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<587714740.71747.1580535591601@email.ionos.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJkswZr+XPkXzrs=2Wmaqjm1GEAqXzQB=CVUa175CGuD-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<653845611.72498.1580547543609@email.ionos.co.uk>
	<1c1cbddf-c869-8142-6351-ef0673144a70@imixmics.co.uk>
Message-ID: <259cf91b-66bb-8c71-ba89-606e9810feda@gmail.com>

That's the thing about Tor, it was originally designed for spies - 
https://www.torproject.org/

B



On 01/02/2020 09:27, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
> All this VPN stuff is making my head hurt.
>
> So if I get myself (on/onto?) a VPN, whether it's paid or free, I'm 
> still putting my data & activities out there somewhere. Who's to say 
> that the VPN company aren't flogging my data to others, be they 
> businesses or foreign governments or criminals? It seems to me much 
> like storing data in/on The Cloud - dodgy.
>
> John
>
> On 01/02/2020 08:59, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote:
>> Hi Keith,
>> Thanks for the recommendation - appreciated. I'll check it tonight 
>> and report back.
>> I believe I can cancel within a certain number of days.
>> With best wishes,
>> Nick Way
>>> On 01 February 2020 at 08:38 Keith Wicks <keithwicksuk at gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Nick. Interesting to hear about the limitations of Express VPN 
>>> . I'd also like to know how you find Touch VPN compares. The 
>>> incentive for you to consider it is that Touch VPN costs $99.99 less 
>>> than Express VPN.
>>> KW
>>>
>>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 at 05:40, Nick Way < nick at nickway.co.uk 
>>> <mailto:nick at nickway.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ??? __
>>> ??? Hi All,
>>>
>>> ??? I woke up my Express VPN account having just moved to Dubai. I
>>> ??? first used it in PyeongChang at the last Winter Olympics. It works
>>> ??? really well and logs into East London. I use it for WhatsApp voice
>>> ??? and video calls to the family in the UK as they are blocked here
>>> ??? even though words and pictures aren't. I can watch BBC iPlayer
>>> ??? easily but the downloads don't work. I've paid 99.99 USD for the
>>> ??? year which I think is not unreasonable.
>>>
>>> ??? Cheers,
>>>
>>> ??? Nick Way
>>>> ??? On 31 January 2020 at 18:05 Keith Wicks via Tech1 <
>>>> ??? tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ??? I think it's much simpler to use a VPN for things like this.
>>>> ??? The one i use is Touch VPN ? much faster than some others I've
>>>> ??? tried.
>>>> ??? KW
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??? On Fri, 31 Jan 2020 at 15:05, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <
>>>> ??? tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ??????? As a fan of Star Trek stuff, I've looked forward to seeing
>>>> ??????? Picard, which came out on Amazon Prime in this country last
>>>> ??????? week.? I avoid having Amazon Prime, so I was interested to
>>>> ??????? discover that the first episode is, for a limited time, free
>>>> ??????? on YouTube
>>>>
>>>> ??????? But - as one discovers when one follows the link -
>>>> ??????? https://youtu.be/1PPm5l3o2zw? - you can't watch it outside
>>>> ??????? the US. Time for lateral thinking......
>>>>
>>>> ??????? There's a browser called Tor, supported by the US DoD, that
>>>> ??????? allows you to be anywhere in the world.? It's easy to
>>>> ??????? download, but moving oneself to the US is a little fiddly, so
>>>> ??????? I thought I'd pass on the fix now that I know it.
>>>>
>>>> ??????? In the Tor folder there's a file called torrc. Change it in
>>>> ??????? Notepad by adding the lines -
>>>>
>>>> ??????? EntryNodes {us} StrictNodes 1
>>>> ??????? ExitNodes {us} StrictNodes 1/
>>>>
>>>> ??????? /Save and restart Tor. Now you're in the US.
>>>>
>>>> ??????? Engage!
>>>>
>>>> ??????? B
>>>>
>>>> ??????? PS there are other ways to watch Picard and lots of other
>>>> ??????? stuff, that my son showed me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ??????? -- ??????? Tech1 mailing list
>>>> ??????? Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>
>>>> ??? -- ??? Tech1 mailing list
>>>> ??? Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Feb  1 04:36:13 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2020 10:36:13 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] You can tell I'm stuck at home with not much to do....
In-Reply-To: <1c1cbddf-c869-8142-6351-ef0673144a70@imixmics.co.uk>
References: <2d3498ea-e304-ae6d-2dcc-1eb12a7f4215@gmail.com>
	<CAA=qGJkU=tv42UmnFxkeJL0jck6iRmRccNq=oiczv3id2yyPLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<587714740.71747.1580535591601@email.ionos.co.uk>
	<CAA=qGJkswZr+XPkXzrs=2Wmaqjm1GEAqXzQB=CVUa175CGuD-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<653845611.72498.1580547543609@email.ionos.co.uk>
	<1c1cbddf-c869-8142-6351-ef0673144a70@imixmics.co.uk>
Message-ID: <62CD1AC9-117B-4E07-BB8F-C960C3431155@me.com>

My take is that there are primarily two groups of people who use VPN for private uses.  One group uses VPN to pretend that they live elsewhere and use it to circumvent geographical limitations, the other group uses VPN to be anonymous and hide their activity. That anonymity might be necessary for financial security reasons or commercial confidentiality, but might also be for criminal reasons, most notoriously for accessing child porn.

For anybody in that first group, I wouldn't think that they need to be too concerned about their data being monitored because it's essentially of minor value or interest to governments or commercial companies, although companies owning rights to movies might be interested in finding out who is pirating them.  For the second category, the possible nature of their activities marks them out as an obvious target for surveillance.  If you know that somebody is trying to hide their activity, then the natural reaction is to look more closely at what they might be up to.  Obviously encryption conceals what they're doing, but that same encryption is also used to download innocent Star Wars movie downloads.

I would expect that the authorities are monitoring what people are doing on-line, they would pay extra attention to those who use VPN, but whether they are able to work out what people are doing with it and then concentrate on the bad guys is another matter and obviously they aren't saying.

It's often claimed that end to end encryption is uncrackable because there are huge numbers of permutations, but much the same was said of the German Enigma machines in WW II.  Alan Turing and the people at Bletchley, collaborating with others around the world were able to defeat codes which were regarded as impossible to read by third parties. It did involve a great deal of ingenuity and they had to design and build the world's first computer along with a special machine known as the Bombe.  It required a massive investment and some of the cleverest brains on the planet, but they managed it.  I would expect that governments around the world are working on ways to defeat end-to-end encryption by mathematical means and if anybody has found a way to do it, I wouldn't expect them to shout about it, just as the Brits went to extreme lengths to conceal Bletchley's code breaking successes.  If the Germans suspected had that their Enigma machines were no longer secure, they would have modified them and we would no longer have been able to intercept their messages.  

Alan Taylor





On 1 Feb 2020, at 1 Feb . 09:27, John Nottage via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> All this VPN stuff is making my head hurt.
> 
> So if I get myself (on/onto?) a VPN, whether it's paid or free, I'm still putting my data & activities out there somewhere. Who's to say that the VPN company aren't flogging my data to others, be they businesses or foreign governments or criminals? It seems to me much like storing data in/on The Cloud - dodgy.
> 
> John
> 
> On 01/02/2020 08:59, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote:
>> Hi Keith,
>> Thanks for the recommendation - appreciated. I'll check it tonight and report back.
>> I believe I can cancel within a certain number of days.
>> With best wishes,
>> Nick Way
>>> On 01 February 2020 at 08:38 Keith Wicks <keithwicksuk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Nick. Interesting to hear about the limitations of Express VPN . I'd also like to know how you find Touch VPN compares. The incentive for you to consider it is that Touch VPN costs $99.99 less than Express VPN.
>>> KW
>>> 
>>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2020 at 05:40, Nick Way < nick at nickway.co.uk <mailto:nick at nickway.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>    __
>>>    Hi All,
>>> 
>>>    I woke up my Express VPN account having just moved to Dubai. I
>>>    first used it in PyeongChang at the last Winter Olympics. It works
>>>    really well and logs into East London. I use it for WhatsApp voice
>>>    and video calls to the family in the UK as they are blocked here
>>>    even though words and pictures aren't. I can watch BBC iPlayer
>>>    easily but the downloads don't work. I've paid 99.99 USD for the
>>>    year which I think is not unreasonable.
>>> 
>>>    Cheers,
>>> 
>>>    Nick Way
>>>>    On 31 January 2020 at 18:05 Keith Wicks via Tech1 <
>>>>    tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>    I think it's much simpler to use a VPN for things like this.
>>>>    The one i use is Touch VPN ? much faster than some others I've
>>>>    tried.
>>>>    KW
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>    On Fri, 31 Jan 2020 at 15:05, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <
>>>>    tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>        As a fan of Star Trek stuff, I've looked forward to seeing
>>>>        Picard, which came out on Amazon Prime in this country last
>>>>        week.  I avoid having Amazon Prime, so I was interested to
>>>>        discover that the first episode is, for a limited time, free
>>>>        on YouTube
>>>> 
>>>>        But - as one discovers when one follows the link -
>>>>        https://youtu.be/1PPm5l3o2zw  - you can't watch it outside
>>>>        the US. Time for lateral thinking......
>>>> 
>>>>        There's a browser called Tor, supported by the US DoD, that
>>>>        allows you to be anywhere in the world.  It's easy to
>>>>        download, but moving oneself to the US is a little fiddly, so
>>>>        I thought I'd pass on the fix now that I know it.
>>>> 
>>>>        In the Tor folder there's a file called torrc.   Change it in
>>>>        Notepad by adding the lines -
>>>> 
>>>>        EntryNodes {us} StrictNodes 1
>>>>        ExitNodes {us} StrictNodes 1/
>>>> 
>>>>        /Save and restart Tor. Now you're in the US.
>>>> 
>>>>        Engage!
>>>> 
>>>>        B
>>>> 
>>>>        PS there are other ways to watch Picard and lots of other
>>>>        stuff, that my son showed me.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>        --         Tech1 mailing list
>>>>        Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>>        http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> 
>>>>    --     Tech1 mailing list
>>>>    Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>>    http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From relong at btinternet.com  Sun Feb  2 12:49:58 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2020 18:49:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <3A7DA8D2665E469EBBB0128F8D36C9B5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>
	<C69E5F1E-F88A-4E74-B093-4ED3E0FFC358@me.com>
	<3A7DA8D2665E469EBBB0128F8D36C9B5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <03E98279-582E-497F-B814-8BAE02CA23A8@btinternet.com>

My son works for a Norwegian oil co in Aberdeen
Hydrogen is the new buzz
Its made from cracked gas and then added to the domestic supply @ 2% and considerably reduces Carbon Footprint
Gas can take up to 15 % Hydrogen before boilers and burners need redesign.
Hydrogen is obviously the fuel of the future, much more effective than battery power for vehicles.
Problems lie with Petro Chem production  , Shell can?t pay its dividends this yr and investment has stopped in capital projects.
Pensions Funds world-wide are heavily invested in Oil and Gas, they may need support!
QE for the Carbon Industry?.
Roger

> On 31 Jan 2020, at 18:21, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Picking up on Alan?s mention of tidal energy I wonder if there is much awareness in the UK of the scheme centred on Alderney? My wife and I have something of a love affair with the island and although it is now almost five years since we last visited we try to follow developments there including the tidal energy scheme based on seabed turbines in ?The Race?, the 8 mile wide section of the English Channel between the island and the Normandy coast.
>  
> The Race boasts the most powerful tidal movement in Europe (some say in the world) so the incentive is huge. So is the development cost which has been no small factor in the slow pace to implementation ? the process began certainly 15 years ago. Current expectation (pardon the pun!) is for in excess of 250 turbines generating some 400 Megawatts. Possibly up and running by 2022 though as with most huge projects target dates have come and gone and so might this one. Obviously an island oft described as ?2000 alcoholics clinging to a rock? doesn?t need 400 Megawatts so the bulk of the output is destined for France. The installation will be in Alderney?s territorial waters however so the benefit to the island?s economy will be huge. Present electricity supply on the island is achieved by diesel generators, all the fuel having to be shipped in with a resulting cost to the consumer of approximately double the unit charge on Jersey.
>  
> With the possible exception of Iona I think Alderney must be the most peaceful place I have visited in the British Isles. If it wasn?t quite so expensive to get to it would have my unreserved recommendation for ?getting away from it all?.
>  
> Dave Newbitt.
>  
> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 <>
> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 12:03 PM
> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
>  
> With regard to renewables, I?d prefer more development in tidal energy for the UK.  Obviously you only get energy at certain states of the tide, but the nature of our tides means that there is always somewhere in the UK where the tides are favourable and we have higher tidal ranges than most countries.
>  
> Unfortunately politicians regard tidal energy as an excuse to build massive barrages, or to refuse to consider such schemes because of the cost of building barrages,  but there are other options which are smaller in scale and with fewer environmental issues.
>  
> Alan Taylor
> 
>> On 31 Jan 2020, at 11:11, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ? Energy companies, including Shell and Ovo, are very big on saying how they use renewables.   All good stuff, but what happens when you get a big blocking high pressure system and all the windmills stop?
>> 
>> It would be really good if someone managed to make fusion work, but it's always been "ten years away", through my whole life, I think.  For at least a decade now, successive governments have preferred to play party politics than actually get their energy act together, so we have huge slow nuclear projects that will probably not be ready in time to stop the brown outs.
>> 
>> Meanwhile, Rolls Royce have been saying "We can do that" and seem to have been largely ignored. RR are really good at building small, extremely safe, nuclear reactors - and they put them in submarines, right next to people who live with them for months on end.  It's a very proven technology - it doesn't solve the "where do we put the left overs?" problem, but we have that anyway.  
>> 
>> Finally, I think someone high up has noticed - 
>> https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/  <https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/>
>> 
>> The parts arrive on lorries, apparently. There is an old rumour that in the sub-sub-sub basement under Whitehall one of them has been running for many years.
>> 
>> B
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sun Feb  2 16:53:38 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2020 22:53:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <03E98279-582E-497F-B814-8BAE02CA23A8@btinternet.com>
References: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>
	<C69E5F1E-F88A-4E74-B093-4ED3E0FFC358@me.com>
	<3A7DA8D2665E469EBBB0128F8D36C9B5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<03E98279-582E-497F-B814-8BAE02CA23A8@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <DE5D0F65-3464-4D3E-B7AD-3E0FC7BC3659@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Hydrogen from cracked gas isn't much benefit since it comes from fossil sources. Cracked water H2 is more useful, but takes a lot of energy to do it.

But hydrogen is a difficult fuel to handle. The small molecule leaks for a pastime under any pressure. That's one reason why it hasn't made much headway despite being around for decades.

Pension funds et al recognise that there is little future in fossil fuels and are widely avoiding investment. They, and insurance companies, see the writing on the wall much faster than governments. It may take a few years to get out completely but it won't be long.

Chris Woolf 




On 2 February 2020 18:49:58 GMT, Roger E Long via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>My son works for a Norwegian oil co in Aberdeen
>Hydrogen is the new buzz
>Its made from cracked gas and then added to the domestic supply @ 2%
>and considerably reduces Carbon Footprint
>Gas can take up to 15 % Hydrogen before boilers and burners need
>redesign.
>Hydrogen is obviously the fuel of the future, much more effective than
>battery power for vehicles.
>Problems lie with Petro Chem production  , Shell can?t pay its
>dividends this yr and investment has stopped in capital projects.
>Pensions Funds world-wide are heavily invested in Oil and Gas, they may
>need support!
>QE for the Carbon Industry?.
>Roger
>
>> On 31 Jan 2020, at 18:21, David Newbitt via Tech1
><tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Picking up on Alan?s mention of tidal energy I wonder if there is
>much awareness in the UK of the scheme centred on Alderney? My wife and
>I have something of a love affair with the island and although it is
>now almost five years since we last visited we try to follow
>developments there including the tidal energy scheme based on seabed
>turbines in ?The Race?, the 8 mile wide section of the English Channel
>between the island and the Normandy coast.
>>  
>> The Race boasts the most powerful tidal movement in Europe (some say
>in the world) so the incentive is huge. So is the development cost
>which has been no small factor in the slow pace to implementation ? the
>process began certainly 15 years ago. Current expectation (pardon the
>pun!) is for in excess of 250 turbines generating some 400 Megawatts.
>Possibly up and running by 2022 though as with most huge projects
>target dates have come and gone and so might this one. Obviously an
>island oft described as ?2000 alcoholics clinging to a rock? doesn?t
>need 400 Megawatts so the bulk of the output is destined for France.
>The installation will be in Alderney?s territorial waters however so
>the benefit to the island?s economy will be huge. Present electricity
>supply on the island is achieved by diesel generators, all the fuel
>having to be shipped in with a resulting cost to the consumer of
>approximately double the unit charge on Jersey.
>>  
>> With the possible exception of Iona I think Alderney must be the most
>peaceful place I have visited in the British Isles. If it wasn?t quite
>so expensive to get to it would have my unreserved recommendation for
>?getting away from it all?.
>>  
>> Dave Newbitt.
>>  
>> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 <>
>> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 12:03 PM
>> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <>
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
>>  
>> With regard to renewables, I?d prefer more development in tidal
>energy for the UK.  Obviously you only get energy at certain states of
>the tide, but the nature of our tides means that there is always
>somewhere in the UK where the tides are favourable and we have higher
>tidal ranges than most countries.
>>  
>> Unfortunately politicians regard tidal energy as an excuse to build
>massive barrages, or to refuse to consider such schemes because of the
>cost of building barrages,  but there are other options which are
>smaller in scale and with fewer environmental issues.
>>  
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>>> On 31 Jan 2020, at 11:11, Bernard Newnham via Tech1
><tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ? Energy companies, including Shell and Ovo, are very big on saying
>how they use renewables.   All good stuff, but what happens when you
>get a big blocking high pressure system and all the windmills stop?
>>> 
>>> It would be really good if someone managed to make fusion work, but
>it's always been "ten years away", through my whole life, I think.  For
>at least a decade now, successive governments have preferred to play
>party politics than actually get their energy act together, so we have
>huge slow nuclear projects that will probably not be ready in time to
>stop the brown outs.
>>> 
>>> Meanwhile, Rolls Royce have been saying "We can do that" and seem to
>have been largely ignored. RR are really good at building small,
>extremely safe, nuclear reactors - and they put them in submarines,
>right next to people who live with them for months on end.  It's a very
>proven technology - it doesn't solve the "where do we put the left
>overs?" problem, but we have that anyway.  
>>> 
>>> Finally, I think someone high up has noticed - 
>>>
>https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/
><https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/>
>>> 
>>> The parts arrive on lorries, apparently. There is an old rumour that
>in the sub-sub-sub basement under Whitehall one of them has been
>running for many years.
>>> 
>>> B
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Sun Feb  2 17:13:38 2020
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2020 23:13:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <03E98279-582E-497F-B814-8BAE02CA23A8@btinternet.com>
References: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>
	<C69E5F1E-F88A-4E74-B093-4ED3E0FFC358@me.com>
	<3A7DA8D2665E469EBBB0128F8D36C9B5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<03E98279-582E-497F-B814-8BAE02CA23A8@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <212048be-f749-2a23-c498-4f9b7d0b4331@howell61.f9.co.uk>

I agree Roger, hydrogen seems to be the only option, but there are 
storage problems, to get sufficient range the storage tank(s) would have 
to be pressurised to 5,000psi? so the thought of? vehicle fire is 
horrifying.

John H.

On 02/02/2020 18:49, Roger E Long via Tech1 wrote:
> My son works for a Norwegian oil co in Aberdeen
> Hydrogen is the new buzz
> Its made from cracked gas and then added to the domestic supply @ 2% 
> and considerably reduces Carbon Footprint
> Gas can take up to 15 % Hydrogen before boilers and burners need redesign.
> Hydrogen is obviously the fuel of the future, much more effective than 
> battery power for vehicles.
> Problems lie with Petro Chem production ?, Shell can?t pay its 
> dividends this yr and investment has stopped in capital projects.
> Pensions Funds world-wide are heavily invested in Oil and Gas, they 
> may need support!
> QE for the Carbon Industry?.
> Roger
>
>> On 31 Jan 2020, at 18:21, David Newbitt via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> Picking up on Alan?s mention of tidal energy I wonder if there is 
>> much awareness in the UK of the scheme centred on Alderney? My wife 
>> and I have something of a love affair with the island and although it 
>> is now almost five years since we last visited we try to follow 
>> developments there including the tidal energy scheme based on seabed 
>> turbines in ?The Race?, the 8 mile wide section of the English 
>> Channel between the island and the Normandy coast.
>> The Race boasts the most powerful tidal movement in Europe (some say 
>> in the world) so the incentive is huge. So is the development cost 
>> which has been no small factor in the slow pace to implementation ? 
>> the process began certainly 15 years ago. Current expectation (pardon 
>> the pun!) is for in excess of 250 turbines generating some 400 
>> Megawatts. Possibly up and running by 2022 though as with most huge 
>> projects target dates have come and gone and so might this one. 
>> Obviously an island oft described as ?2000 alcoholics clinging to a 
>> rock? doesn?t need 400 Megawatts so the bulk of the output is 
>> destined for France. The installation will be in Alderney?s 
>> territorial waters however so the benefit to the island?s economy 
>> will be huge. Present electricity supply on the island is achieved by 
>> diesel generators, all the fuel having to be shipped in with a 
>> resulting cost to the consumer of approximately double the unit 
>> charge on Jersey.
>> With the possible exception of Iona I think Alderney must be the most 
>> peaceful place I have visited in the British Isles. If it wasn?t 
>> quite so expensive to get to it would have my unreserved 
>> recommendation for ?getting away from it all?.
>> Dave Newbitt.
>> *From:* Alan Taylor via Tech1
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 31, 2020 12:03 PM
>> *To:* Tech-Ops-chit-chat
>> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
>> With regard to renewables, I?d prefer more development in tidal 
>> energy for the UK.? Obviously you only get energy at certain states 
>> of the tide, but the nature of our tides means that there is always 
>> somewhere in the UK where the tides are favourable and we have higher 
>> tidal ranges than most countries.
>> Unfortunately politicians regard tidal energy as an excuse to build 
>> massive barrages, or to refuse to consider such schemes because of 
>> the cost of building barrages,? but there are other options which are 
>> smaller in scale and with fewer environmental issues.
>> Alan Taylor
>>
>>> On 31 Jan 2020, at 11:11, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? Energy companies, including Shell and Ovo, are very big on saying 
>>> how they use renewables.?? All good stuff, but what happens when you 
>>> get a big blocking high pressure system and all the windmills stop?
>>>
>>> It would be really good if someone managed to make fusion work, but 
>>> it's always been "ten years away", through my whole life, I think.? 
>>> For at least a decade now, successive governments have preferred to 
>>> play party politics than actually get their energy act together, so 
>>> we have huge slow nuclear projects that will probably not be ready 
>>> in time to stop the brown outs.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, Rolls Royce have been saying "We can do that" and seem to 
>>> have been largely ignored. RR are really good at building small, 
>>> extremely safe, nuclear reactors - and they put them in submarines, 
>>> right next to people who live with them for months on end.? It's a 
>>> very proven technology - it doesn't solve the "where do we put the 
>>> left overs?" problem, but we have that anyway.
>>>
>>> Finally, I think someone high up has noticed -
>>> https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/ 
>>>
>>>
>>> The parts arrive on lorries, apparently. There is an old rumour that 
>>> in the sub-sub-sub basement under Whitehall one of them has been 
>>> running for many years.
>>>
>>> B
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
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From relong at btinternet.com  Sun Feb  2 17:33:41 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2020 23:33:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <212048be-f749-2a23-c498-4f9b7d0b4331@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>
	<C69E5F1E-F88A-4E74-B093-4ED3E0FFC358@me.com>
	<3A7DA8D2665E469EBBB0128F8D36C9B5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<03E98279-582E-497F-B814-8BAE02CA23A8@btinternet.com>
	<212048be-f749-2a23-c498-4f9b7d0b4331@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2A4C13BD-584D-4B9C-A79A-5EA083BB3F76@btinternet.com>

It took 50 yrs to establish petrol distribution stations and render petroleum safe, it is  very volatile and flammable, but fire is a low risk now .
We are ingenious, there are North Sea plans for wind farms with  mass15 megawatt turbines feeding a well head that produce H2 from seawater
The gas is sent ashore by pipeline or tanker.
Its quite exciting technology  , my son is keen to embrace it.
Roger

> On 2 Feb 2020, at 23:13, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I agree Roger, hydrogen seems to be the only option, but there are storage problems, to get sufficient range the storage tank(s) would have to be pressurised to 5,000psi  so the thought of  vehicle fire is horrifying.
> 
> John H.
> 
> On 02/02/2020 18:49, Roger E Long via Tech1 wrote:
>> My son works for a Norwegian oil co in Aberdeen
>> Hydrogen is the new buzz
>> Its made from cracked gas and then added to the domestic supply @ 2% and considerably reduces Carbon Footprint
>> Gas can take up to 15 % Hydrogen before boilers and burners need redesign.
>> Hydrogen is obviously the fuel of the future, much more effective than battery power for vehicles.
>> Problems lie with Petro Chem production  , Shell can?t pay its dividends this yr and investment has stopped in capital projects.
>> Pensions Funds world-wide are heavily invested in Oil and Gas, they may need support!
>> QE for the Carbon Industry?.
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On 31 Jan 2020, at 18:21, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Picking up on Alan?s mention of tidal energy I wonder if there is much awareness in the UK of the scheme centred on Alderney? My wife and I have something of a love affair with the island and although it is now almost five years since we last visited we try to follow developments there including the tidal energy scheme based on seabed turbines in ?The Race?, the 8 mile wide section of the English Channel between the island and the Normandy coast.
>>>  
>>> The Race boasts the most powerful tidal movement in Europe (some say in the world) so the incentive is huge. So is the development cost which has been no small factor in the slow pace to implementation ? the process began certainly 15 years ago. Current expectation (pardon the pun!) is for in excess of 250 turbines generating some 400 Megawatts. Possibly up and running by 2022 though as with most huge projects target dates have come and gone and so might this one. Obviously an island oft described as ?2000 alcoholics clinging to a rock? doesn?t need 400 Megawatts so the bulk of the output is destined for France. The installation will be in Alderney?s territorial waters however so the benefit to the island?s economy will be huge. Present electricity supply on the island is achieved by diesel generators, all the fuel having to be shipped in with a resulting cost to the consumer of approximately double the unit charge on Jersey.
>>>  
>>> With the possible exception of Iona I think Alderney must be the most peaceful place I have visited in the British Isles. If it wasn?t quite so expensive to get to it would have my unreserved recommendation for ?getting away from it all?.
>>>  
>>> Dave Newbitt.
>>>  
>>> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 <>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 12:03 PM
>>> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <>
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
>>>  
>>> With regard to renewables, I?d prefer more development in tidal energy for the UK.  Obviously you only get energy at certain states of the tide, but the nature of our tides means that there is always somewhere in the UK where the tides are favourable and we have higher tidal ranges than most countries.
>>>  
>>> Unfortunately politicians regard tidal energy as an excuse to build massive barrages, or to refuse to consider such schemes because of the cost of building barrages,  but there are other options which are smaller in scale and with fewer environmental issues.
>>>  
>>> Alan Taylor
>>> 
>>>> On 31 Jan 2020, at 11:11, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ? Energy companies, including Shell and Ovo, are very big on saying how they use renewables.   All good stuff, but what happens when you get a big blocking high pressure system and all the windmills stop?
>>>> 
>>>> It would be really good if someone managed to make fusion work, but it's always been "ten years away", through my whole life, I think.  For at least a decade now, successive governments have preferred to play party politics than actually get their energy act together, so we have huge slow nuclear projects that will probably not be ready in time to stop the brown outs.
>>>> 
>>>> Meanwhile, Rolls Royce have been saying "We can do that" and seem to have been largely ignored. RR are really good at building small, extremely safe, nuclear reactors -                             and they put them in submarines, right next to people who live with them for months on end.  It's a very proven technology - it doesn't solve the "where do we put the left overs?" problem, but we have that anyway.  
>>>> 
>>>> Finally, I think someone high up has noticed - 
>>>> https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/  <https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/>
>>>> 
>>>> The parts arrive on lorries, apparently. There is an old rumour that in the sub-sub-sub basement under Whitehall one of them has been running for many years.
>>>> 
>>>> B
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Feb  2 17:48:05 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2020 23:48:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <03E98279-582E-497F-B814-8BAE02CA23A8@btinternet.com>
References: <03E98279-582E-497F-B814-8BAE02CA23A8@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <186D67CB-9137-4C06-8DC1-A3067E211C32@me.com>

Hydrogen is a very promising fuel for vehicles, either as fuel for an IC engine, or to produce electricity via a fuel cell.  Either way, the only waste emission is water vapour. 

Mindful of the images of the Hindenburg disaster, people are intuitively fearful of what might happen to hydrogen tanks in the event of an accident, but it?s generally regarded as safer than petrol.  Petrol leaking from a tank forms puddles on the ground and a petrol fire  burns from ground level upwards until the fuel has burnt. Hydrogen dissipates very rapidly into the atmosphere and if there is a fire, it burns above the storage tank, not below it. 

There are videos on YouTube of hydrogen tanks for vehicles being shot at with anti tank rounds.  

I remember reading an article ten to fifteen years ago about how Iceland  was planning to use geothermal power to split water and to load the hydrogen into tankers and ship it to other countries as a green fuel. It sounded like a great idea, but I?ve heard nothing since. 

There have also been recent reports of successes in efficiently splitting water by other means, which could pave the way for hydrogen being generated where it is sold, further reducing the use of fossil fuels. 

I have no doubt that electric cars will be the norm soon, but I suspect that the real future will be for electric cars using hydrogen fuel cells instead of storage batteries. 

Alan Taylor

> On 2 Feb 2020, at 18:50, Roger E Long <relong at btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
> ?My son works for a Norwegian oil co in Aberdeen
> Hydrogen is the new buzz
> Its made from cracked gas and then added to the domestic supply @ 2% and considerably reduces Carbon Footprint
> Gas can take up to 15 % Hydrogen before boilers and burners need redesign.
> Hydrogen is obviously the fuel of the future, much more effective than battery power for vehicles.
> Problems lie with Petro Chem production  , Shell can?t pay its dividends this yr and investment has stopped in capital projects.
> Pensions Funds world-wide are heavily invested in Oil and Gas, they may need support!
> QE for the Carbon Industry?.
> Roger
> 
>>> On 31 Jan 2020, at 18:21, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Picking up on Alan?s mention of tidal energy I wonder if there is much awareness in the UK of the scheme centred on Alderney? My wife and I have something of a love affair with the island and although it is now almost five years since we last visited we try to follow developments there including the tidal energy scheme based on seabed turbines in ?The Race?, the 8 mile wide section of the English Channel between the island and the Normandy coast.
>>>  
>>> The Race boasts the most powerful tidal movement in Europe (some say in the world) so the incentive is huge. So is the development cost which has been no small factor in the slow pace to implementation ? the process began certainly 15 years ago. Current expectation (pardon the pun!) is for in excess of 250 turbines generating some 400 Megawatts. Possibly up and running by 2022 though as with most huge projects target dates have come and gone and so might this one. Obviously an island oft described as ?2000 alcoholics clinging to a rock? doesn?t need 400 Megawatts so the bulk of the output is destined for France. The installation will be in Alderney?s territorial waters however so the benefit to the island?s economy will be huge. Present electricity supply on the island is achieved by diesel generators, all the fuel having to be shipped in with a resulting cost to the consumer of approximately double the unit charge on Jersey.
>>>  
>>> With the possible exception of Iona I think Alderney must be the most peaceful place I have visited in the British Isles. If it wasn?t quite so expensive to get to it would have my unreserved recommendation for ?getting away from it all?.
>>>  
>>> Dave Newbitt.
>>>  
>>> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
>>> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 12:03 PM
>>> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
>>>  
>>> With regard to renewables, I?d prefer more development in tidal energy for the UK.  Obviously you only get energy at certain states of the tide, but the nature of our tides means that there is always somewhere in the UK where the tides are favourable and we have higher tidal ranges than most countries.
>>>  
>>> Unfortunately politicians regard tidal energy as an excuse to build massive barrages, or to refuse to consider such schemes because of the cost of building barrages,  but there are other options which are smaller in scale and with fewer environmental issues.
>>>  
>>> Alan Taylor
>>> 
>>> On 31 Jan 2020, at 11:11, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ? Energy companies, including Shell and Ovo, are very big on saying how they use renewables.   All good stuff, but what happens when you get a big blocking high pressure system and all the windmills stop?
>>> 
>>> It would be really good if someone managed to make fusion work, but it's always been "ten years away", through my whole life, I think.  For at least a decade now, successive governments have preferred to play party politics than actually get their energy act together, so we have huge slow nuclear projects that will probably not be ready in time to stop the brown outs.
>>> 
>>> Meanwhile, Rolls Royce have been saying "We can do that" and seem to have been largely ignored. RR are really good at building small, extremely safe, nuclear reactors - and they put them in submarines, right next to people who live with them for months on end.  It's a very proven technology - it doesn't solve the "where do we put the left overs?" problem, but we have that anyway.  
>>> 
>>> Finally, I think someone high up has noticed - 
>>> https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/ 
>>> 
>>> The parts arrive on lorries, apparently. There is an old rumour that in the sub-sub-sub basement under Whitehall one of them has been running for many years.
>>> 
>>> B
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
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From alawrance1 at me.com  Mon Feb  3 02:10:13 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2020 08:10:13 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <DE5D0F65-3464-4D3E-B7AD-3E0FC7BC3659@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <DE5D0F65-3464-4D3E-B7AD-3E0FC7BC3659@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <6E0E3F05-66DC-47BA-8773-3EA0B54172B5@me.com>

Aberdeen is running 10 hydrogen fuel cell buses in a 3 year project.

Domestic LPG bottles eg  Calor are  up to about 200psi in old money, so you?d have to be more careful with H, it?s very searching.

Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



> On 2 Feb 2020, at 23:45, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Hydrogen from cracked gas isn't much benefit since it comes from fossil sources. Cracked water H2 is more useful, but takes a lot of energy to do it.
> 
> But hydrogen is a difficult fuel to handle. The small molecule leaks for a pastime under any pressure. That's one reason why it hasn't made much headway despite being around for decades.
> 
> Pension funds et al recognise that there is little future in fossil fuels and are widely avoiding investment. They, and insurance companies, see the writing on the wall much faster than governments. It may take a few years to get out completely but it won't be long.
> 
> Chris Woolf 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 2 February 2020 18:49:58 GMT, Roger E Long via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> My son works for a Norwegian oil co in Aberdeen
>> Hydrogen is the new buzz
>> Its made from cracked gas and then added to the domestic supply @ 2% and considerably reduces Carbon Footprint
>> Gas can take up to 15 % Hydrogen before boilers and burners need redesign.
>> Hydrogen is obviously the fuel of the future, much more effective than battery power for vehicles.
>> Problems lie with Petro Chem production  , Shell can?t pay its dividends this yr and investment has stopped in capital projects.
>> Pensions Funds world-wide are heavily invested in Oil and Gas, they may need support!
>> QE for the Carbon Industry?.
>> Roger
>> 
>>> On 31 Jan 2020, at 18:21, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Picking up on Alan?s mention of tidal energy I wonder if there is much awareness in the UK of the scheme centred on Alderney? My wife and I have something of a love affair with the island and although it is now almost five years since we last visited we try to follow developments there including the tidal energy scheme based on seabed turbines in ?The Race?, the 8 mile wide section of the English Channel between the island and the Normandy coast.
>>>  
>>> The Race boasts the most powerful tidal movement in Europe (some say in the world) so the incentive is huge. So is the development cost which has been no small factor in the slow pace to implementation ? the process began certainly 15 years ago. Current expectation (pardon the pun!) is for in excess of 250 turbines generating some 400 Megawatts. Possibly up and running by 2022 though as with most huge projects target dates have come and gone and so might this one. Obviously an island oft described as ?2000 alcoholics clinging to a rock? doesn?t need 400 Megawatts so the bulk of the output is destined for France. The installation will be in Alderney?s territorial waters however so the benefit to the island?s economy will be huge. Present electricity supply on the island is achieved by diesel generators, all the fuel having to be shipped in with a resulting cost to the consumer of approximately double the unit charge on Jersey.
>>>  
>>> With the possible exception of Iona I think Alderney must be the most peaceful place I have visited in the British Isles. If it wasn?t quite so expensive to get to it would have my unreserved recommendation for ?getting away from it all?.
>>>  
>>> Dave Newbitt.
>>>  
>>> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
>>> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2020 12:03 PM
>>> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
>>>  
>>> With regard to renewables, I?d prefer more development in tidal energy for the UK.  Obviously you only get energy at certain states of the tide, but the nature of our tides means that there is always somewhere in the UK where the tides are favourable and we have higher tidal ranges than most countries.
>>>  
>>> Unfortunately politicians regard tidal energy as an excuse to build massive barrages, or to refuse to consider such schemes because of the cost of building barrages,  but there are other options which are smaller in scale and with fewer environmental issues.
>>>  
>>> Alan Taylor
>>> 
>>>> On 31 Jan 2020, at 11:11, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ? Energy companies, including Shell and Ovo, are very big on saying how they use renewables.   All good stuff, but what happens when you get a big blocking high pressure system and all the windmills stop?
>>>> 
>>>> It would be really good if someone managed to make fusion work, but it's always been "ten years away", through my whole life, I think.  For at least a decade now, successive governments have preferred to play party politics than actually get their energy act together, so we have huge slow nuclear projects that will probably not be ready in time to stop the brown outs.
>>>> 
>>>> Meanwhile, Rolls Royce have been saying "We can do that" and seem to have been largely ignored. RR are really good at building small, extremely safe, nuclear reactors - and they put them in submarines, right next to people who live with them for months on end.  It's a very proven technology - it doesn't solve the "where do we put the left overs?" problem, but we have that anyway.  
>>>> 
>>>> Finally, I think someone high up has noticed - 
>>>> https://newatlas.com/energy/rolls-royce-plans-mini-nuclear-reactors-in-britain/ 
>>>> 
>>>> The parts arrive on lorries, apparently. There is an old rumour that in the sub-sub-sub basement under Whitehall one of them has been running for many years.
>>>> 
>>>> B
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alawrance1 at me.com  Mon Feb  3 02:25:43 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2020 08:25:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Aberdeen hydrogen buses
Message-ID: <D2334088-30C6-4CEB-84CC-3E88C4C167D0@me.com>

Some info about the Aberdeen project - 

https://www.all-energy.co.uk/__novadocuments/30431?v=635060505159530000


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Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.



From nick at nickway.co.uk  Mon Feb  3 02:35:40 2020
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2020 08:35:40 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?]  Aberdeen hydrogen buses
In-Reply-To: <D2334088-30C6-4CEB-84CC-3E88C4C167D0@me.com>
References: <D2334088-30C6-4CEB-84CC-3E88C4C167D0@me.com>
Message-ID: <829213752.128860.1580718940571@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From waresound at msn.com  Mon Feb  3 04:10:38 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2020 10:10:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?]  Aberdeen hydrogen buses
In-Reply-To: <829213752.128860.1580718940571@email.ionos.co.uk>
References: <D2334088-30C6-4CEB-84CC-3E88C4C167D0@me.com>,
	<829213752.128860.1580718940571@email.ionos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271D99460C5F412356C9799A7000@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

It was actually ghost-written by Volta and Ampere, with a little help from Hertz.
Nick (the other one)
Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 3 Feb 2020, at 08:35, Nick Way via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
....is the author really surnamed Watt?

With best wishes,

Nick Way
On 03 February 2020 at 08:25 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 < tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:


Some info about the Aberdeen project -

https://www.all-energy.co.uk/__novadocuments/30431?v=635060505159530000




Alasdair Lawrance

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.


--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
--
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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Mon Feb  3 04:12:21 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2020 10:12:21 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?]  Aberdeen hydrogen buses
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271D99460C5F412356C9799A7000@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <D2334088-30C6-4CEB-84CC-3E88C4C167D0@me.com>
	<829213752.128860.1580718940571@email.ionos.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB0271D99460C5F412356C9799A7000@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <33ADDEEC-CF9F-4E0A-9492-F1802F541A5C@icloud.com>

Noninative determism at it?s finest!
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 3 Feb 2020, at 10:10, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> It was actually ghost-written by Volta and Ampere, with a little help from Hertz.
> Nick (the other one)
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>> On 3 Feb 2020, at 08:35, Nick Way via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> ....is the author really surnamed Watt?
>> 
>> With best wishes,
>> 
>> Nick Way
>>> On 03 February 2020 at 08:25 Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 < tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Some info about the Aberdeen project -
>>> 
>>> https://www.all-energy.co.uk/__novadocuments/30431?v=635060505159530000
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Alasdair Lawrance
>>> 
>>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Feb  3 05:14:12 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2020 11:14:12 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <2A4C13BD-584D-4B9C-A79A-5EA083BB3F76@btinternet.com>
References: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>
	<C69E5F1E-F88A-4E74-B093-4ED3E0FFC358@me.com>
	<3A7DA8D2665E469EBBB0128F8D36C9B5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<03E98279-582E-497F-B814-8BAE02CA23A8@btinternet.com>
	<212048be-f749-2a23-c498-4f9b7d0b4331@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<2A4C13BD-584D-4B9C-A79A-5EA083BB3F76@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <b4a7d818-9954-25c7-938c-19f92a249455@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 02/02/2020 23:33, Roger E Long via Tech1 wrote:
> It took 50 yrs to establish petrol distribution stations ....
> Its quite exciting technology ?, my son is keen to embrace it.
> Roger.


It is exciting, but also fundamentally flawed. The generation of 
hydrogen takes a lot of energy, no matter what the source. Then the 
heavy compression required to squash it into a storage cylinder takes a 
lot more, and finally the conversion to motive power also has some 
inefficiency (even with good fuel cells). The result is that chemistry 
and physics limit the end-to-end efficiency to about 30-40% at best. 
Which explains why a hydrogen economy hasn't proved attractive, even 
though we have known about it for decades.

There are much better conversion efficiencies to be gained from using 
electric storage, even though batteries aren't ideal as yet. It makes 
far more sense to use sustainably produced electric power directly to 
drive a car than to go through all the intermediate stages that H2 requires.

The only advantage H2 has over batteries is fast refuelling. Despite the 
hype of high-speed electric recharging it simply isn't very feasible. 
Once again basic physics tells you that to poke many 10s of kWhs into a 
battery in the same time it takes to refuel a petrol tank is going to be 
associated with massive cables, massive current draw from a grid, and 
massive heat generation. Battery recharging is essentially a leisurely 
at-home affair.

The only version of hydrogen that might be of interest is ammonia. That 
can be made sustainably, doesn't take as much energy to convert, can be 
stored under relatively low pressure, and can be used in conventional 
engines or fuel cells. The energy density is about 50% of petrol/diesel 
- batteries are about 10% - and you can liquid-refuel as easily as you 
can with LPG. It isn't a perfect fuel - smelly and a bit toxic - but it 
isn't a no-hoper.

Whether ammonia takes off as a vehicle fuel, or liquid refuelled (flow) 
batteries are developed faster, is hard to predict. But simple hydrogen 
is really a dead-end. Fossil fuel companies still fancy pushing the 
idea, in the hope of prolonging their future, but car manufacturers did 
the sums long ago.


Chris Woolf



From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  3 06:00:39 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2020 12:00:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <b4a7d818-9954-25c7-938c-19f92a249455@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>
	<C69E5F1E-F88A-4E74-B093-4ED3E0FFC358@me.com>
	<3A7DA8D2665E469EBBB0128F8D36C9B5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<03E98279-582E-497F-B814-8BAE02CA23A8@btinternet.com>
	<212048be-f749-2a23-c498-4f9b7d0b4331@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<2A4C13BD-584D-4B9C-A79A-5EA083BB3F76@btinternet.com>
	<b4a7d818-9954-25c7-938c-19f92a249455@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyGsCMmPKHiYmL2OoCy3MVy-JMUTkOZZni7Je3JShJA9jQ@mail.gmail.com>

Just popping back to nuclear - which would seem to be a solid answer to the
problem if not for the leftovers - I was wondering about subduction layers,
and it turns out that there's a whole lot of learned literature on dumping
stuff there. Skimming through, it doesn't seem impossible.

B

On Mon, 3 Feb 2020, 11:14 Chris Woolf via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

>
> On 02/02/2020 23:33, Roger E Long via Tech1 wrote:
> > It took 50 yrs to establish petrol distribution stations ....
> > Its quite exciting technology  , my son is keen to embrace it.
> > Roger.
>
>
> It is exciting, but also fundamentally flawed. The generation of
> hydrogen takes a lot of energy, no matter what the source. Then the
> heavy compression required to squash it into a storage cylinder takes a
> lot more, and finally the conversion to motive power also has some
> inefficiency (even with good fuel cells). The result is that chemistry
> and physics limit the end-to-end efficiency to about 30-40% at best.
> Which explains why a hydrogen economy hasn't proved attractive, even
> though we have known about it for decades.
>
> There are much better conversion efficiencies to be gained from using
> electric storage, even though batteries aren't ideal as yet. It makes
> far more sense to use sustainably produced electric power directly to
> drive a car than to go through all the intermediate stages that H2
> requires.
>
> The only advantage H2 has over batteries is fast refuelling. Despite the
> hype of high-speed electric recharging it simply isn't very feasible.
> Once again basic physics tells you that to poke many 10s of kWhs into a
> battery in the same time it takes to refuel a petrol tank is going to be
> associated with massive cables, massive current draw from a grid, and
> massive heat generation. Battery recharging is essentially a leisurely
> at-home affair.
>
> The only version of hydrogen that might be of interest is ammonia. That
> can be made sustainably, doesn't take as much energy to convert, can be
> stored under relatively low pressure, and can be used in conventional
> engines or fuel cells. The energy density is about 50% of petrol/diesel
> - batteries are about 10% - and you can liquid-refuel as easily as you
> can with LPG. It isn't a perfect fuel - smelly and a bit toxic - but it
> isn't a no-hoper.
>
> Whether ammonia takes off as a vehicle fuel, or liquid refuelled (flow)
> batteries are developed faster, is hard to predict. But simple hydrogen
> is really a dead-end. Fossil fuel companies still fancy pushing the
> idea, in the hope of prolonging their future, but car manufacturers did
> the sums long ago.
>
>
> Chris Woolf
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Feb  3 07:03:03 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2020 13:03:03 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <CAA7MLyGsCMmPKHiYmL2OoCy3MVy-JMUTkOZZni7Je3JShJA9jQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bcf50394-fdf3-a15f-9cbc-48625e6f2ba7@gmail.com>
	<C69E5F1E-F88A-4E74-B093-4ED3E0FFC358@me.com>
	<3A7DA8D2665E469EBBB0128F8D36C9B5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<03E98279-582E-497F-B814-8BAE02CA23A8@btinternet.com>
	<212048be-f749-2a23-c498-4f9b7d0b4331@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<2A4C13BD-584D-4B9C-A79A-5EA083BB3F76@btinternet.com>
	<b4a7d818-9954-25c7-938c-19f92a249455@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<CAA7MLyGsCMmPKHiYmL2OoCy3MVy-JMUTkOZZni7Je3JShJA9jQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cced03fc-d5ae-c157-6305-071a3c303b5c@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 03/02/2020 12:00, Bernard Newnham wrote:
> Just popping back to nuclear - which would seem to be a solid answer 
> to the problem if not for the leftovers - I was wondering about 
> subduction layers, and it turns out that there's a whole lot of 
> learned literature on dumping stuff there. Skimming through, it 
> doesn't seem impossible.
>
The problem is, invariably, the unpredictability. Subduction layers and 
other geophysical structures look simple when viewed from a historical 
point of view. Tectonic plates float happily along, colliding 
gracefully, and layers slide over and under each other like sheets of 
cardboard.

But predicting that they will continue to do that in the same way over 
10k years isn't reliable. In practice volcanic and similar activity is 
highly unpredictable - as evidence of current explosions, tsunamis, 
earthquakes etc continually prove. We also know almost nothing about the 
underground movement of water. Time and again various "impermeable"? 
layers prove to rather less watertight than simple theory tells us. The 
risk of long-term pollution of groundwater is a very scary concept - we 
need it to survive.

The substructure of our planet just isn't as compartmentalised as we 
would wish, any more than the atmosphere and the oceans have proved to 
be infinite.

Nuclear power is superficially very attractive, but, just as fossil 
fuels have associated waste problems that didn't seem too serious at 
first, so does fission. We ~have~ to consider the future we understand, 
rather than the one we hope might work - that's like a gambler buying a 
palace on the basis of what he ~might~ win tomorrow. Fusion ~might~ be a 
better bet but, as you have remarked - it seems for ever out of reach.

The sustainable energy sources that we are currently using, pulling 
energy from the sun (that includes tidal and wind) do neatly avoid the 
waste product problem, though they do contribute to a degree of heating 
that we could do without. Pegging our future to these makes far more 
sense, and with less profligate use of energy - we throw away staggering 
amounts currently - we shouldn't need to consider the riskier methods.

Chris Woolf



From relong at btinternet.com  Mon Feb  3 10:53:25 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2020 16:53:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB6448CF0DFF63AD3F25CB637DAB000@VI1PR06MB6448.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB6448CF0DFF63AD3F25CB637DAB000@VI1PR06MB6448.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <013BFD79-B038-4199-A5A4-F7DBCD476EA8@btinternet.com>

My son replies 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 3 Feb 2020, at 14:46, Long, Sam <Sam.Long2 at akersolutions.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I?m neither a physicist or a chemist and I work in the hydrocarbon sector, so maybe I have a vested interest, nor do I have enough facts and figures to hand. In short;
>  
> ?         Points regarding energy cost and relative inefficiency of hydrogen are valid, but as ever data needs to be in context
> ?         Global energy consumption is dominated by heating/cooling (48%, including industrial, high temp applications) and transport (32%). Power is only 20%. Many applications are best served by liquid or gaseous forms of energy
> ?         Electric cars have, so far, only absorbed 0.3% of the transport demand. Many argue that batteries are unlikely to replace long haul aviation or heavy land transportation. That said Tesla is rumoured to be working on a ?million mile? battery
> ?         Ammonia vs pure hydrogen is an ongoing debate. A burnable, gas form fuel source has many benefits, including lowest cost of replacement vs petroleum derived fuels
> ?         Green hydrogen is forecast to come down in cost, driven by offshore wind. Economies of scale would bring production to a point where inefficiencies are countered by abundance
> ?         The alternative to use of the existing gas networks in the UK, fueled by hydrogen, is a 5x increase in electrical infrastructure
>  
> Note, Chris does not offer you an alternative. We are approaching the end of the hydrocarbon era, driven by a technical limit regarding GHG limits in the atmosphere. New alternatives need to be validated and progressed. No progress isn?t an option, the current estimate for 2C of temperature rise is a remaining ?carbon budget? of 800bt. Current emissions are 40btpa, so we have maximum 20 yrs at current rates of emission in order to devise and fully deploy the next energy systems.
>  
> S
>  
> From: Roger Long <relong at btinternet.com> 
> Sent: 03 February 2020 13:48
> To: Long, Sam <Sam.Long2 at akersolutions.com>
> Subject: Fwd: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
>  
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Aker Solutions. Exercise caution when responding, opening attachments and clicking links.
> 
>  
>  
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: 3 February 2020 at 11:14:55 GMT
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re:  [Tech1] Slightly different energy
> Reply-To: Chris Woolf <chris at chriswoolf.co.uk>
> 
> ?
> On 02/02/2020 23:33, Roger E Long via Tech1 wrote:
> 
> It took 50 yrs to establish petrol distribution stations ....
> Its quite exciting technology  , my son is keen to embrace it.
> Roger.
> 
> 
> It is exciting, but also fundamentally flawed. The generation of hydrogen takes a lot of energy, no matter what the source. Then the heavy compression required to squash it into a storage cylinder takes a lot more, and finally the conversion to motive power also has some inefficiency (even with good fuel cells). The result is that chemistry and physics limit the end-to-end efficiency to about 30-40% at best. Which explains why a hydrogen economy hasn't proved attractive, even though we have known about it for decades.
> 
> There are much better conversion efficiencies to be gained from using electric storage, even though batteries aren't ideal as yet. It makes far more sense to use sustainably produced electric power directly to drive a car than to go through all the intermediate stages that H2 requires.
> 
> The only advantage H2 has over batteries is fast refuelling. Despite the hype of high-speed electric recharging it simply isn't very feasible. Once again basic physics tells you that to poke many 10s of kWhs into a battery in the same time it takes to refuel a petrol tank is going to be associated with massive cables, massive current draw from a grid, and massive heat generation. Battery recharging is essentially a leisurely at-home affair.
> 
> The only version of hydrogen that might be of interest is ammonia. That can be made sustainably, doesn't take as much energy to convert, can be stored under relatively low pressure, and can be used in conventional engines or fuel cells. The energy density is about 50% of petrol/diesel - batteries are about 10% - and you can liquid-refuel as easily as you can with LPG. It isn't a perfect fuel - smelly and a bit toxic - but it isn't a no-hoper.
> 
> Whether ammonia takes off as a vehicle fuel, or liquid refuelled (flow) batteries are developed faster, is hard to predict. But simple hydrogen is really a dead-end. Fossil fuel companies still fancy pushing the idea, in the hope of prolonging their future, but car manufacturers did the sums long ago.
> 
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. It is solely intended for the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, any reading, use, disclosure, copying or distribution of all or parts of this e-mail or associated attachments is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message or by telephone and delete this e-mail and any attachments permanently from your system.
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Feb  3 12:12:58 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2020 18:12:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <013BFD79-B038-4199-A5A4-F7DBCD476EA8@btinternet.com>
References: <VI1PR06MB6448CF0DFF63AD3F25CB637DAB000@VI1PR06MB6448.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<013BFD79-B038-4199-A5A4-F7DBCD476EA8@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <c3f0edca-bf75-3c9b-04af-bae1b56c587f@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Some good answers.

But in fairness to myself I ~did~ offer the alternative of ammonia and 
also liquid fuelled batteries.

The latter already exist (such as vanadium flow batteries) but currently 
have poor energy densities. They are suitable for static installations 
but not vehicles, at least for the moment. However there isn't a 
fundamental limit to what might be achieved. In flow batteries the 
electrolyte circulates between electrodes and can be recharged by 
reversing current flow in the cell, or by pump-swapping "charged" 
electrolyte.

In both cases refuelling is "liquid" and can be fast.

Batteries are certainly never going to work well for aviation - the fact 
that the take-off and landing weights will be equal is a massive 
detraction. But ammonia (or perhaps hydrogen) could work with turbines.

Chris Woolf


On 03/02/2020 16:53, Roger Long via Tech1 wrote:

> My son replies
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 3 Feb 2020, at 14:46, Long, Sam <Sam.Long2 at akersolutions.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> I?m neither a physicist or a chemist and I work in the hydrocarbon 
>> sector, so maybe I have a vested interest, nor do I have enough facts 
>> and figures to hand. In short;
>>
>> ?Points regarding energy cost and relative inefficiency of hydrogen 
>> are valid, but as ever data needs to be in context
>>
>> ?Global energy consumption is dominated by heating/cooling (48%, 
>> including industrial, high temp applications) and transport (32%). 
>> Power is only 20%. Many applications are best served by liquid or 
>> gaseous forms of energy
>>
>> ?Electric cars have, so far, only absorbed 0.3% of the transport 
>> demand. Many argue that batteries are unlikely to replace long haul 
>> aviation or heavy land transportation. That said Tesla is rumoured to 
>> be working on a ?million mile 
>> <https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-may-soon-have-a-battery-that-can-last-a-million-miles/>? 
>> battery
>>
>> ?Ammonia vs pure hydrogen is an ongoing debate. A burnable, gas form 
>> fuel source has many benefits, including lowest cost of replacement 
>> vs petroleum derived fuels
>>
>> ?Green hydrogen is forecast to come down in cost, driven by offshore 
>> wind. Economies of scale would bring production to a point where 
>> inefficiencies are countered by abundance
>>
>> ?The alternative to use of the existing gas networks in the UK, 
>> fueled by hydrogen, is a 5x increase in electrical infrastructure
>>
>> Note, Chris does not offer you an alternative. We are approaching the 
>> end of the hydrocarbon era, driven by a technical limit regarding GHG 
>> limits in the atmosphere. New alternatives need to be validated and 
>> progressed. No progress isn?t an option, the current estimate for 2C 
>> of temperature rise is a remaining ?carbon budget? of 800bt. Current 
>> emissions are 40btpa, so we have maximum 20 yrs at current rates of 
>> emission in order to devise and fully deploy the next energy systems.
>>
>> S
>>
>> *From:*Roger Long <relong at btinternet.com>
>> *Sent:* 03 February 2020 13:48
>> *To:* Long, Sam <Sam.Long2 at akersolutions.com>
>> *Subject:* Fwd: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
>>
>> *CAUTION*: This email originated from outside of Aker Solutions. 
>> Exercise caution when responding, opening attachments and clicking links.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>     *From:* Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>     <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>>
>>     *Date:* 3 February 2020 at 11:14:55 GMT
>>     *To:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>     *Subject:* *Re:? [Tech1] Slightly different energy*
>>     *Reply-To:* Chris Woolf <chris at chriswoolf.co.uk
>>     <mailto:chris at chriswoolf.co.uk>>
>>
>>     ?
>>     On 02/02/2020 23:33, Roger E Long via Tech1 wrote:
>>
>>         It took 50 yrs to establish petrol distribution stations ....
>>
>>         Its quite exciting technology ?, my son is keen to embrace it.
>>
>>         Roger.
>>
>>
>>
>>     It is exciting, but also fundamentally flawed. The generation of
>>     hydrogen takes a lot of energy, no matter what the source. Then
>>     the heavy compression required to squash it into a storage
>>     cylinder takes a lot more, and finally the conversion to motive
>>     power also has some inefficiency (even with good fuel cells). The
>>     result is that chemistry and physics limit the end-to-end
>>     efficiency to about 30-40% at best. Which explains why a hydrogen
>>     economy hasn't proved attractive, even though we have known about
>>     it for decades.
>>
>>     There are much better conversion efficiencies to be gained from
>>     using electric storage, even though batteries aren't ideal as
>>     yet. It makes far more sense to use sustainably produced electric
>>     power directly to drive a car than to go through all the
>>     intermediate stages that H2 requires.
>>
>>     The only advantage H2 has over batteries is fast refuelling.
>>     Despite the hype of high-speed electric recharging it simply
>>     isn't very feasible. Once again basic physics tells you that to
>>     poke many 10s of kWhs into a battery in the same time it takes to
>>     refuel a petrol tank is going to be associated with massive
>>     cables, massive current draw from a grid, and massive heat
>>     generation. Battery recharging is essentially a leisurely at-home
>>     affair.
>>
>>     The only version of hydrogen that might be of interest is
>>     ammonia. That can be made sustainably, doesn't take as much
>>     energy to convert, can be stored under relatively low pressure,
>>     and can be used in conventional engines or fuel cells. The energy
>>     density is about 50% of petrol/diesel - batteries are about 10% -
>>     and you can liquid-refuel as easily as you can with LPG. It isn't
>>     a perfect fuel - smelly and a bit toxic - but it isn't a no-hoper.
>>
>>     Whether ammonia takes off as a vehicle fuel, or liquid refuelled
>>     (flow) batteries are developed faster, is hard to predict. But
>>     simple hydrogen is really a dead-end. Fossil fuel companies still
>>     fancy pushing the idea, in the hope of prolonging their future,
>>     but car manufacturers did the sums long ago.
>>
>>
>>     Chris Woolf
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Tech1 mailing list
>>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>> This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged 
>> or otherwise protected from disclosure. It is solely intended for the 
>> person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, any 
>> reading, use, disclosure, copying or distribution of all or parts of 
>> this e-mail or associated attachments is strictly prohibited. If you 
>> are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately 
>> by replying to this message or by telephone and delete this e-mail 
>> and any attachments permanently from your system.
>
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From relong at btinternet.com  Tue Feb  4 03:51:08 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2020 09:51:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB64487B120EF2A1D26B8563CAAB030@VI1PR06MB6448.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <b4a7d818-9954-25c7-938c-19f92a249455@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<7ED20F93-D81B-42A1-8787-7A253E91FD6F@btinternet.com>
	<VI1PR06MB64487B120EF2A1D26B8563CAAB030@VI1PR06MB6448.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5FCF8774-6D14-44D0-8DE8-C56A36EF9984@btinternet.com>



> On 4 Feb 2020, at 08:57, Long, Sam <Sam.Long2 at akersolutions.com> wrote:
> 
> Snippet from an article I read this morning;
>  
> Green hydrogen demand in Europe a 100GW+ opportunity for renewables
> 
> Europe would need 300-800TWh of renewable energy per year to produce all the green hydrogen it will need by 2050 ? the equivalent of 95-254GW of dedicated offshore wind farms ? according to the continent?s two transmission system operator (TSO) organisations.
> 
> Preliminary calculations by ENTSO-E and ENTSOG (the European Network of Transmission System Operators for Electricity and Gas, respectively) show that the demand for clean hydrogen would require ?in the order of 300-800TWh of renewables feeding into electrolysers by 2050?.
> 
> ?In a sense, this is a huge number. It?s partly motivated by the volumes we foresee to decarbonise gas,? Dimitrios Chaniotis, system development committee chair at ENTSO-E, told EU news website Euractiv.
> 
> ?Now, we don?t know yet where they?re going to be located or how they?re going to be operated ? on renewables, nuclear, or whatever else.
> 
> ?This is quite a complex issue, and we?re just starting to model it and understand it? but we cannot assess it precisely at this point in time.?
> 
> The enormous scale of opportunities for the renewables sector from green hydrogen becomes apparent when you consider what 300-800TWh equates to in real terms.of
> 
> According to Recharge?s calculations, 800TWh is the equivalent of all the output from 413.14GW of onshore wind (at an average capacity factor [CF] of 22% ? as seen across Europe in 2018, according to WindEurope); 253.5GW of offshore (36% CF); 505.55GW of solar (18% CF) or 98.59GW of nuclear (92.5% CF).
> 
> Using the same capacity factors, 300TWh would be the equivalent of 95GW of offshore wind, 155GW of onshore wind, 190GW of solar or 37GW of nuclear.
> 
> To meet the hydrogen demand alone ? never mind the power needs of Europe ? would therefore require a massive scaling up of renewable energy in Europe.
> 
> At the end of 2018, Europe had a total of 163.97GW of onshore wind installed, 18.52GW of offshore and 121.6GW of solar, according to the International Renewable Energy Agency. The World Nuclear Association says that there were 119GW of nuclear capacity in the EU at the end of 2019.
> 
> Hydrogen is seen as a vital fuel for the energy transition as it can be used to generate electricity and heat with zero greenhouse-gas emissions, and can be used for energy storage, as a long-distance transport fuel, as a replacement for natural gas, and as a feedstock for aviation fuel, ammonia fertilisers and other chemicals.
> 
> Currently, more than 95% of the hydrogen produced is extracted from natural gas or coal, resulting in nine to 12 tonnes of CO2 being released for every tonne of H2. This 'grey hydrogen' is up to five times cheaper to produce than green hydrogen, although a Canadian company recently put its green H2?on the market at prices only 80% higher than grey <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rechargenews.com%2Ftransition%2Fgreen-hydrogen-on-sale-in-open-market-at-80-higher-price-than-grey-h2%2F2-1-743348&data=02%7C01%7CSam.Long2%40akersolutions.com%7C58a8b2d5748b4748f57308d7a93bc9f8%7C26b749f68c7244e3bbdeae3de07b4206%7C0%7C0%7C637163946598502046&sdata=c7V7%2F8E%2FcYQGGnJ3%2F5Cm8jH91xXQbLH%2BtPvTSag%2Ffuw%3D&reserved=0>.
> 
> Several studies say that green hydrogen could become cheaper than grey by 2030 <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rechargenews.com%2Ftransition%2Fgreen-hydrogen-cheaper-than-unabated-fossil-fuel-h2-by-2030-hydrogen-council%2F2-1-741658&data=02%7C01%7CSam.Long2%40akersolutions.com%7C58a8b2d5748b4748f57308d7a93bc9f8%7C26b749f68c7244e3bbdeae3de07b4206%7C0%7C0%7C637163946598502046&sdata=OLkiOlaBuJcjyJgI211c5Ref9jDeu21ncV0046zOAxA%3D&reserved=0> as more and more electrolysers are built, due to economies of scale.
> 
>  
> S
>  
> From: Roger Long <relong at btinternet.com <mailto:relong at btinternet.com>> 
> Sent: 03 February 2020 13:48
> To: Long, Sam <Sam.Long2 at akersolutions.com <mailto:Sam.Long2 at akersolutions.com>>
> Subject: Fwd: [Tech1] Slightly different energy
>  
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of Aker Solutions. Exercise caution when responding, opening attachments and clicking links.
> 
>  
>  
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>>
> Date: 3 February 2020 at 11:14:55 GMT
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re:  [Tech1] Slightly different energy
> Reply-To: Chris Woolf <chris at chriswoolf.co.uk <mailto:chris at chriswoolf.co.uk>>
> 
> ?
> On 02/02/2020 23:33, Roger E Long via Tech1 wrote:
> 
> It took 50 yrs to establish petrol distribution stations ....
> Its quite exciting technology  , my son is keen to embrace it.
> Roger.
> 
> 
> It is exciting, but also fundamentally flawed. The generation of hydrogen takes a lot of energy, no matter what the source. Then the heavy compression required to squash it into a storage cylinder takes a lot more, and finally the conversion to motive power also has some inefficiency (even with good fuel cells). The result is that chemistry and physics limit the end-to-end efficiency to about 30-40% at best. Which explains why a hydrogen economy hasn't proved attractive, even though we have known about it for decades.
> 
> There are much better conversion efficiencies to be gained from using electric storage, even though batteries aren't ideal as yet. It makes far more sense to use sustainably produced electric power directly to drive a car than to go through all the intermediate stages that H2 requires.
> 
> The only advantage H2 has over batteries is fast refuelling. Despite the hype of high-speed electric recharging it simply isn't very feasible. Once again basic physics tells you that to poke many 10s of kWhs into a battery in the same time it takes to refuel a petrol tank is going to be associated with massive cables, massive current draw from a grid, and massive heat generation. Battery recharging is essentially a leisurely at-home affair.
> 
> The only version of hydrogen that might be of interest is ammonia. That can be made sustainably, doesn't take as much energy to convert, can be stored under relatively low pressure, and can be used in conventional engines or fuel cells. The energy density is about 50% of petrol/diesel - batteries are about 10% - and you can liquid-refuel as easily as you can with LPG. It isn't a perfect fuel - smelly and a bit toxic - but it isn't a no-hoper.
> 
> Whether ammonia takes off as a vehicle fuel, or liquid refuelled (flow) batteries are developed faster, is hard to predict. But simple hydrogen is really a dead-end. Fossil fuel companies still fancy pushing the idea, in the hope of prolonging their future, but car manufacturers did the sums long ago.
> 
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. It is solely intended for the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, any reading, use, disclosure, copying or distribution of all or parts of this e-mail or associated attachments is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message or by telephone and delete this e-mail and any attachments permanently from your system.

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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Tue Feb  4 18:17:50 2020
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 00:17:50 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Type 2 Sound Desk?
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271625CF7D45AFA793616E1A72A0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <001401d5bcd8$a68d8cf0$f3a8a6d0$@gmail.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271625CF7D45AFA793616E1A72A0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <480c0ad1-5187-40d7-928f-efdf08822c01@howell61.f9.co.uk>

A very belated nit-pic but the audio actually went through the faders 
and switches so the desk was not just a control surface. It didn't 
control remote switches and amplifier gains.

Happy New Year Nick!

John H.



On 27/12/2019 18:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> It?s a BBC type B alright, but strictly speaking, in today?s 
> terminology it?s only a control surface, because all the electronics 
> was (were?) in racks in the Sound Apparatus Room adjacent to the Sound 
> Control Room. Nit-picky, me? But of course.
> Best, Nick W.
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>> On 27 Dec 2019, at 17:11, geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Hi William/Tony,
>>
>> Among my photos I have this one I took in about 1970, I think, in 
>> either TC2 or 5. I don?t know if it?s a Type B Sound Desk but thought 
>> you and or your contact might like to see it.
>>
>> I?m sure it?ll bring back memories to a lot of our old Sound 
>> colleagues as well and might prompt a tale or too to amuse us all,
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> *Geoff Hawkes*
>>
>> *From:*Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> *On Behalf Of *William 
>> Nuttall via Tech1
>> *Sent:* 24 December 2019 11:05
>> *To:* Bernard Newnham <bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com>
>> *Cc:* Bernard Newnham <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Subject:* [Tech1] Just out of Interest to "SOUND PEOPLE"
>>
>> Following on from Steve Edwards request for info on the tracking Fold 
>> Back speaker on TOTP
>>
>> in 1974. I contacted ?Roger Beckwith at ?Old Radio Broadcast 
>> Equipment ?& Memories to see if
>>
>> he had any pics of the LS3/1. Roger had no pictures but he did have 
>> the TI on BBC LS's from 1961:-
>>
>> http://www.bbceng.info/ti/non-eqpt/TI_S8_Loudspeakers%20And%20Loudspeaker%20Units.pdf
>>
>> Roger would like to do a page for OREBM on LS's so if you have any 
>> pics he would be happy to hear from you.
>>
>> The other area that Roger is working on is the BBC Type B sound desk. 
>> Again he is short of pics for the
>>
>> Type B ?Sound Desk . If you have any Roger would be pleased to hear 
>> from you.
>>
>> http://www.orbem.co.uk/typeb/typeb1.htm
>>
>> Happy Xmas & a Prosperous New Year to all.
>>
>> Tony N (In the wilds of Cumbria)
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From waresound at msn.com  Wed Feb  5 02:18:37 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 08:18:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] BBC Type 2 Sound Desk?
In-Reply-To: <480c0ad1-5187-40d7-928f-efdf08822c01@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <001401d5bcd8$a68d8cf0$f3a8a6d0$@gmail.com>
	<VI1P192MB0271625CF7D45AFA793616E1A72A0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<480c0ad1-5187-40d7-928f-efdf08822c01@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB027126372E3B06560F0F18F2A7020@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I did wonder why nobody picked me up on that inaccuracy at the time!
We must do lunch, I?ll get Rob in the case.
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 5 Feb 2020, at 00:18, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

A very belated nit-pic but the audio actually went through the faders and switches so the desk was not just a control surface. It didn't control remote switches and amplifier gains.

Happy New Year Nick!

John H.


On 27/12/2019 18:15, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
It?s a BBC type B alright, but strictly speaking, in today?s terminology it?s only a control surface, because all the electronics was (were?) in racks in the Sound Apparatus Room adjacent to the Sound Control Room. Nit-picky, me? But of course.
Best, Nick W.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 27 Dec 2019, at 17:11, geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk><mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Hi William/Tony,
Among my photos I have this one I took in about 1970, I think, in either TC2 or 5. I don?t know if it?s a Type B Sound Desk but thought you and or your contact might like to see it.
I?m sure it?ll bring back memories to a lot of our old Sound colleagues as well and might prompt a tale or too to amuse us all,
Regards,
Geoff Hawkes

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk><mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of William Nuttall via Tech1
Sent: 24 December 2019 11:05
To: Bernard Newnham <bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com><mailto:bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com>
Cc: Bernard Newnham <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk><mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: [Tech1] Just out of Interest to "SOUND PEOPLE"

Following on from Steve Edwards request for info on the tracking Fold Back speaker on TOTP
in 1974. I contacted  Roger Beckwith at  Old Radio Broadcast Equipment  & Memories to see if
he had any pics of the LS3/1. Roger had no pictures but he did have the TI on BBC LS's from 1961:-

http://www.bbceng.info/ti/non-eqpt/TI_S8_Loudspeakers%20And%20Loudspeaker%20Units.pdf

Roger would like to do a page for OREBM on LS's so if you have any pics he would be happy to hear from you.
The other area that Roger is working on is the BBC Type B sound desk. Again he is short of pics for the
Type B  Sound Desk . If you have any Roger would be pleased to hear from you.

http://www.orbem.co.uk/typeb/typeb1.htm

Happy Xmas & a Prosperous New Year to all.

Tony N (In the wilds of Cumbria)

[cid:part3.E82FCB46.26A72CC9 at howell61.f9.co.uk]--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


--
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http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Wed Feb  5 09:39:31 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 15:39:31 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Marriage Allowance
Message-ID: <4C376881-1262-4141-896D-8F04FB3FAFED@vincent68.plus.com>

Prospero came today.
On page 2 there was a bit about Marriage Allowance. It was introduced with little fanfare. 
If your other half does not earn up to the personal tax allowance some can be transferred to you. It can be backdated 4 years.
10 minutes online and we will get nearly a grand backdated!

Thanks Prospero.

John V

Sent from my iPad


From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Wed Feb  5 15:04:05 2020
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2020 21:04:05 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fw: PUBLIC CONSULTATION TO DE-CRIMINALISE BBC LICENSE FEE
Message-ID: <67F7690189DD41F694E132635C569C69@Gigabyte>

PUBLIC CONSULTATION TO DE-CRIMINALISE BBC LICENSE FEE











Hi BBC people


Just received this via the BBC Pensioners association and you may wish to get involved with the petition.


After all the BBC did give us a good job for many years and it would be a great loss to see it disappear for the general public under a snow of US style programming and loads of similar cr*p.
There is a lot of conversation around as well pointing out that any of us who actually watch commercial TV are paying through advertisers costs and certainly subscription TV can cost way more than BBC.
Actually when broken down, the licence fee is less than a daily paper and far more worthwhile.


Mike Jordan


From: BBC Pensioners' Association 
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2020 7:48 PM
To: Michael 
Subject: PUBLIC CONSULTATION TO DE-CRIMINALISE BBC LICENSE FEE


                                 
                                EXTRA SPECIAL
                                February Newsletter 2020 
                                View this email in your browser 
                             
                       
                 
           
                                  
                             
                                STOP PRESS


                                Dear Michael

                                PUBLIC CONSULTATION TO DE-CRIMINALISE BBC LICENSE FEE 
                                On 5th February 2020 Baroness Nicky Morgan, Minister for DCMS announced that she will open a public consultation about de-criminalising payment of the license fee.  She said, ?Many people consider it wrong that you can be imprisoned for not paying for your TV licence and that its enforcement punishes the vulnerable.?  This contentious issue had a Government review in only 2015 and the recommendation was to continue with the current system.  The latest figures (2018) show that a total of 129,446 people were prosecuted for non-payment and the vast majority were found guilty through fast-track prosecutions and fined an average of ?176.  Only five people in England and Wales were ultimately sent to prison for failing to pay a fine issued by the court.
                                Although the existence of the license fee itself is safe guarded until 2027, a previous Government undermined the BBC?s funding by transferring payment of over-75s licence fee from the State to the BBC. The BBC took the difficult decision to only exempt over-75s who receive pension credit.  If the sanction of prosecution for failure to pay the license fee is taken away this might mean that the BBC?s funding model goes into freewill.  It's up to you what you decide and this is an opportunity for all members to be involved in what may change the future of the BBC.
                                 
                                For Members to engage with the public consultation PLEASE click on the link below and have your say.   It only takes 5 minutes (depending on how much you write!) 
                                 
                                PLEASE SHARE WITH FRIENDS and FAMILY 
                                 
                                We don?t have much time as the consultation CLOSES AT 5.00PM ends on 1st APRIL 2020 
                                 
                                https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/consultation-on-decriminalising-tv-licence-evasion


                                   
                             
                                 
                             
                                 
                             
                       
                 
           
                             
                        
                        
                       
                 
           
                 
                             
                        
                       
                 
           
                       
                 
           
     







           
     

 
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From dave at davesound.co.uk  Thu Feb  6 09:57:27 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2020 15:57:27 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Fw: PUBLIC CONSULTATION TO DE-CRIMINALISE BBC LICENSE
 FEE
In-Reply-To: <67F7690189DD41F694E132635C569C69@Gigabyte>
References: <67F7690189DD41F694E132635C569C69@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <583e1f0e57dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <67F7690189DD41F694E132635C569C69 at Gigabyte>,
   Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Just received this via the BBC Pensioners association and you may wish
> to get involved with the petition.


> After all the BBC did give us a good job for many years and it would be
> a great loss to see it disappear for the general public under a snow of
> US style programming and loads of similar cr*p. There is a lot of
> conversation around as well pointing out that any of us who actually
> watch commercial TV are paying through advertisers costs and certainly
> subscription TV can cost way more than BBC. Actually when broken down,
> the licence fee is less than a daily paper and far more worthwhile.

Here, the BBC is worth the license just for R4. Living on my own, it keeps
be company in a way TV can't. While I do other things.

I often hear it said the BBC advertises anyway. Like its trails and so on.
But not every 15 minutes or so which I find so irritating with commercial
talk radio. And light music stations versus R2. 

But then many directly paid for services have advertising too - and at a
far greater cost per hour than the BBC.

I should have had a free licence this year. But chose to pay it. That's
how much I value the BBC. And hope it will carry on much as is. Even
although much of the mainstream programming is no longer to my taste. Due
to being old. ;-)

-- 
*IF A TURTLE DOESN'T HAVE A SHELL, IS HE HOMELESS OR NAKED?

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From relong at btinternet.com  Thu Feb  6 11:52:56 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2020 17:52:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] PUBLIC CONSULTATION TO DE-CRIMINALISE BBC LICENSE FEE
In-Reply-To: <583e1f0e57dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <67F7690189DD41F694E132635C569C69@Gigabyte>
	<583e1f0e57dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CF44BE9E-E5BF-4003-8DCD-2C81DE0AFA88@btinternet.com>

I enjoy R4 .R3 and R4 Xtra dearly
Less so the TV, but BBC4 has good docs/Music  and occasionally BBC1/2 has bearable Drama.
However the licence fee might have been suitable for the analog airwaves of the 1920s , but not for the Digital world of the 2020s
200,000 viewers will not pay it and 130,000 have criminal records for non payment a year..
Some are imprisoned!
Subscription is the only way, decriminalisation a first step.
The BBC Liberal bias is a bind and a teeth knasher for many outside the M25.
Frankly the once academic Beeb we knew and loved has withered since the Birtian reforms of the 90s.
It needs a Reformation, who will be their Luther ?
Certainly not James Purnell?.

> On 6 Feb 2020, at 15:57, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> In article <67F7690189DD41F694E132635C569C69 at Gigabyte>,
>   Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Just received this via the BBC Pensioners association and you may wish
>> to get involved with the petition.
> 
> 
>> After all the BBC did give us a good job for many years and it would be
>> a great loss to see it disappear for the general public under a snow of
>> US style programming and loads of similar cr*p. There is a lot of
>> conversation around as well pointing out that any of us who actually
>> watch commercial TV are paying through advertisers costs and certainly
>> subscription TV can cost way more than BBC. Actually when broken down,
>> the licence fee is less than a daily paper and far more worthwhile.
> 
> Here, the BBC is worth the license just for R4. Living on my own, it keeps
> be company in a way TV can't. While I do other things.
> 
> I often hear it said the BBC advertises anyway. Like its trails and so on.
> But not every 15 minutes or so which I find so irritating with commercial
> talk radio. And light music stations versus R2. 
> 
> But then many directly paid for services have advertising too - and at a
> far greater cost per hour than the BBC.
> 
> I should have had a free licence this year. But chose to pay it. That's
> how much I value the BBC. And hope it will carry on much as is. Even
> although much of the mainstream programming is no longer to my taste. Due
> to being old. ;-)
> 
> -- 
> *IF A TURTLE DOESN'T HAVE A SHELL, IS HE HOMELESS OR NAKED?
> 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Thu Feb  6 14:14:42 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2020 20:14:42 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Studios
References: <1882944041.879366.1581020082062.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1882944041.879366.1581020082062@mail.yahoo.com>

Interesting item on the news this evening. Apparently, Pinewood, Shepperton, Elstree and Neasden are all expanding, because of the increased demand for studios.
For some reason, I find this vaguely irritating.
luv, Rog.
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From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Thu Feb  6 16:27:13 2020
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer)
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2020 22:27:13 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Studios
Message-ID: <qudshh5aefyxh3fr6kjbmqkr.1581028033223@email.android.com>

..... and not really surprising!Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 06/02/2020  20:14  (GMT+00:00) To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Subject: [Tech1] Studios Interesting item on the news this evening. Apparently, Pinewood, Shepperton, Elstree and Neasden are all expanding, because of the increased demand for studios.For some reason, I find this vaguely irritating.luv, Rog.
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From tonys at tonyscott.org.uk  Thu Feb  6 18:13:01 2020
From: tonys at tonyscott.org.uk (Tony Scott)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 00:13:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Studios
In-Reply-To: <qudshh5aefyxh3fr6kjbmqkr.1581028033223@email.android.com>
References: <qudshh5aefyxh3fr6kjbmqkr.1581028033223@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAOw_4ra0DT0mJdGLF7iKxNZaB1U+4JvQVaq6s3CTmLnY1YsMjQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020, 22:27 vernon.dyer via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

>
> ..... and not really surprising!
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> -------- Original message --------
> From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: 06/02/2020 20:14 (GMT+00:00)
> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: [Tech1] Studios
>
> Interesting item on the news this evening. Apparently, Pinewood,
> Shepperton, Elstree and Neasden are all expanding, because of the increased
> demand for studios.
>
> For some reason, I find this vaguely irritating.
>
> luv, Rog.
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Feb  7 06:48:15 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 12:48:15 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Studios
In-Reply-To: <CAOw_4ra0DT0mJdGLF7iKxNZaB1U+4JvQVaq6s3CTmLnY1YsMjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <qudshh5aefyxh3fr6kjbmqkr.1581028033223@email.android.com>
	<CAOw_4ra0DT0mJdGLF7iKxNZaB1U+4JvQVaq6s3CTmLnY1YsMjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5e3d5c8e.1c69fb81.a9591.efa4@mx.google.com>

Unsurprising because of closure of studios once available at TVC, LG Riverside and TVT?
At least, if new stages are built at the recognised studios, we might be lucky with having properly soundproofed and acoustically treated venues, to obtain decent sound, rather than suffering converted warehouses!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Tony Scott via Tech1
Sent: 07 February 2020 00:13
To: vernon.dyer
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Studios



On Thu, 6 Feb 2020, 22:27 vernon.dyer via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

..... and not really surprising!


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Date: 06/02/2020 20:14 (GMT+00:00) 
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Subject: [Tech1] Studios 

Interesting item on the news this evening. Apparently, Pinewood, Shepperton, Elstree and Neasden are all expanding, because of the increased demand for studios.

For some reason, I find this vaguely irritating.

luv, Rog.
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Fri Feb  7 06:56:00 2020
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2020 12:56:00 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Studios
In-Reply-To: <5e3d5c8e.1c69fb81.a9591.efa4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <odsfbb95pekgbn35jeb7bqmm.1581080160355@pgtmedia.co.uk>

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From waresound at msn.com  Fri Feb  7 09:12:14 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 15:12:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Studios
In-Reply-To: <odsfbb95pekgbn35jeb7bqmm.1581080160355@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <5e3d5c8e.1c69fb81.a9591.efa4@mx.google.com>,
	<odsfbb95pekgbn35jeb7bqmm.1581080160355@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <DB7P192MB02651123798672D81AAAAC35A71C0@DB7P192MB0265.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I just wish that someone would point out to them that the universally standard TV screen ratio is 16x9, not 21x9.
21x9 for TV drama makes no sense whatsoever, but it has become a tiresome trend.
Nick.

Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 7 Feb 2020, at 12:56, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Riverside is open again (but LWT and Thames both went)
Quite a few new studios will be film stages not TV studios

Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

07802 243979

Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk

Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/

sent from my BlackBerry?the most secure mobile device?via the O2 Network
From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 7 February 2020 12:48
To: tonys at tonyscott.org.uk; vernon.dyer at btinternet.com
Reply to: pat.heigham at amps.net
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Studios

Unsurprising because of closure of studios once available at TVC, LG Riverside and TVT?
At least, if new stages are built at the recognised studios, we might be lucky with having properly soundproofed and acoustically treated venues, to obtain decent sound, rather than suffering converted warehouses!
Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Tony Scott via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 07 February 2020 00:13
To: vernon.dyer<mailto:vernon.dyer at btinternet.com>
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Studios



On Thu, 6 Feb 2020, 22:27 vernon.dyer<http://vernon.dyer> via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

..... and not really surprising!


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>>
Date: 06/02/2020 20:14 (GMT+00:00)
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>>
Subject: [Tech1] Studios

Interesting item on the news this evening. Apparently, Pinewood, Shepperton, Elstree and Neasden are all expanding, because of the increased demand for studios.

For some reason, I find this vaguely irritating.

luv, Rog.
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Fri Feb  7 09:31:13 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 15:31:13 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Studios
In-Reply-To: <DB7P192MB02651123798672D81AAAAC35A71C0@DB7P192MB0265.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <DB7P192MB02651123798672D81AAAAC35A71C0@DB7P192MB0265.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <13163186-1BCE-4888-81F3-1F024054457D@me.com>

When 12x9 was the norm, some directors insisted in shooting 16x9. Now that 16x9 is the norm, they shoot in 21x9.  If 21x9 becomes the norm, we can expect such types to shoot in 32x9. 

The first time I worked on a film shot in a wide aspect ratio was also the first time that the D.O.P. Had shot in that format. I knew him quite well and he gleefully pointed out that the shots would be so wide that there would be no way to get a boom in. I looked unconcerned and said let?s see how it works out.  I hadn?t shot in quite such a wide format before, but I did know that in order to see the actors satisfactorily when shooting widescreen, the camera needs to be quite close and the although the shot will indeed be wide, it won?t be very high. As a result, it was dead easy to get a boom in, probably easier than for ?normal? aspect ratios. 

Alan Taylor

> On 7 Feb 2020, at 15:12, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? I just wish that someone would point out to them that the universally standard TV screen ratio is 16x9, not 21x9.
> 21x9 for TV drama makes no sense whatsoever, but it has become a tiresome trend.
> Nick.
> 
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>>> On 7 Feb 2020, at 12:56, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Riverside is open again (but LWT and Thames both went) 
>> Quite a few new studios will be film stages not TV studios
>> 
>> Paul Thackray
>> 
>> PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>> 
>> 07802 243979
>> 
>> Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>> 
>> Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>> 
>> Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>> 
>> IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>> 
>> sent from my BlackBerry?the most secure mobile device?via the O2 Network
>> From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Sent: 7 February 2020 12:48
>> To: tonys at tonyscott.org.uk; vernon.dyer at btinternet.com
>> Reply to: pat.heigham at amps.net
>> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Studios
>> 
>> Unsurprising because of closure of studios once available at TVC, LG Riverside and TVT?
>> At least, if new stages are built at the recognised studios, we might be lucky with having properly soundproofed and acoustically treated venues, to obtain decent sound, rather than suffering converted warehouses!
>> Pat
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: Tony Scott via Tech1
>> Sent: 07 February 2020 00:13
>> To: vernon.dyer
>> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Studios
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020, 22:27 vernon.dyer via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>  
>> ..... and not really surprising!
>>  
>>  
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Date: 06/02/2020 20:14 (GMT+00:00)
>> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Subject: [Tech1] Studios
>>  
>> Interesting item on the news this evening. Apparently, Pinewood, Shepperton, Elstree and Neasden are all expanding, because of the increased demand for studios.
>>  
>> For some reason, I find this vaguely irritating.
>>  
>> luv, Rog.
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>  
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Feb  7 10:27:05 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 16:27:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Studios
In-Reply-To: <13163186-1BCE-4888-81F3-1F024054457D@me.com>
References: <DB7P192MB02651123798672D81AAAAC35A71C0@DB7P192MB0265.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<13163186-1BCE-4888-81F3-1F024054457D@me.com>
Message-ID: <5e3d8fd8.1c69fb81.60946.0f72@mx.google.com>

Absolutely, Alan.
One of my splendid jobs was on ?The Spy Who Loved Me? 007 with Roger Moore, and it was his first anamorphic pic. 
 The head room was wonderfully low, so getting the  mic in at the top of shot was better than 1.85:1
Trouble is that nowadays, there is a tendency to shoot with multi-cameras, one wide, and several close, which buggers the boom trying for proper perspective.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 07 February 2020 15:31
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Studios

When 12x9 was the norm, some directors insisted in shooting 16x9. Now that 16x9 is the norm, they shoot in 21x9. ?If 21x9 becomes the norm, we can expect such types to shoot in 32x9.?

The first time I worked on a film shot in a wide aspect ratio was also the first time that the D.O.P. Had shot in that format. I knew him quite well and he gleefully pointed out that the shots would be so wide that there would be no way to get a boom in. I looked unconcerned and said let?s see how it works out. ?I hadn?t shot in quite such a wide format before, but I did know that in order to see the actors satisfactorily when shooting widescreen, the camera needs to be quite close and the although the shot will indeed be wide, it won?t be very high. As a result, it was dead easy to get a boom in, probably easier than for ?normal? aspect ratios.?

Alan Taylor


On 7 Feb 2020, at 15:12, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
? I just wish that someone would point out to them that the universally standard TV screen ratio is 16x9, not 21x9. 
21x9 for TV drama makes no sense whatsoever, but it has become a tiresome trend.
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5


On 7 Feb 2020, at 12:56, Paul Thackray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
? 
Riverside is open again (but LWT and Thames both went)?
Quite a few new studios will be film stages not TV studios

Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

07802 243979

Mail;?paul at pgtmedia.co.uk

Web;?http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin;???http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB;?http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/

sent from my BlackBerry?the most secure mobile device?via the O2 Network
From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 7 February 2020 12:48
To: tonys at tonyscott.org.uk; vernon.dyer at btinternet.com
Reply to: pat.heigham at amps.net
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Studios
Unsurprising because of closure of studios once available at TVC, LG Riverside and TVT?
At least, if new stages are built at the recognised studios, we might be lucky with having properly soundproofed and acoustically treated venues, to obtain decent sound, rather than suffering converted warehouses!
Pat
?
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
?
From: Tony Scott via Tech1
Sent: 07 February 2020 00:13
To: vernon.dyer
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Studios
?
?
?
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020, 22:27 vernon.dyer via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
?
..... and not really surprising!
?
?
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Date: 06/02/2020 20:14 (GMT+00:00) 
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Subject: [Tech1] Studios 
?
Interesting item on the news this evening. Apparently, Pinewood, Shepperton, Elstree and Neasden are all expanding, because of the increased demand for studios.
?
For some reason, I find this vaguely irritating.
?
luv, Rog.
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
?
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  7 10:43:29 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2020 16:43:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Studios
In-Reply-To: <5e3d8fd8.1c69fb81.60946.0f72@mx.google.com>
References: <DB7P192MB02651123798672D81AAAAC35A71C0@DB7P192MB0265.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<13163186-1BCE-4888-81F3-1F024054457D@me.com>
	<5e3d8fd8.1c69fb81.60946.0f72@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <927f9318-8c42-a256-3394-c3fccfdc7518@ntlworld.com>

I thought everything was post dubbed these days, what they used to call 
looping

B



On 07/02/2020 16:27, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Absolutely, Alan.
>
> One of my splendid jobs was on ?The Spy Who Loved Me? 007 with Roger 
> Moore, and it was his first anamorphic pic.
>
> ?The head room was wonderfully low, so getting the ?mic in at the top 
> of shot was better than 1.85:1
>
> Trouble is that nowadays, there is a tendency to shoot with 
> multi-cameras, one wide, and several close, which buggers the boom 
> trying for proper perspective.
>
> Pat
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *Alan Taylor via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *07 February 2020 15:31
> *To: *Tech-Ops-chit-chat <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Studios
>
> When 12x9 was the norm, some directors insisted in shooting 16x9. Now 
> that 16x9 is the norm, they shoot in 21x9. ?If 21x9 becomes the norm, 
> we can expect such types to shoot in 32x9.
>
> The first time I worked on a film shot in a wide aspect ratio was also 
> the first time that the D.O.P. Had shot in that format. I knew him 
> quite well and he gleefully pointed out that the shots would be so 
> wide that there would be no way to get a boom in. I looked unconcerned 
> and said let?s see how it works out. ?I hadn?t shot in quite such a 
> wide format before, but I did know that in order to see the actors 
> satisfactorily when shooting widescreen, the camera needs to be quite 
> close and the although the shot will indeed be wide, it won?t be very 
> high. As a result, it was dead easy to get a boom in, probably easier 
> than for ?normal? aspect ratios.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
>     On 7 Feb 2020, at 15:12, Nick Ware via Tech1
>     <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>     ? I just wish that someone would point out to them that the
>     universally standard TV screen ratio is 16x9, not 21x9.
>
>     21x9 for TV drama makes no sense whatsoever, but it has become a
>     tiresome trend.
>
>     Nick.
>
>     Sent from my iPad mini 5
>
>
>
>         On 7 Feb 2020, at 12:56, Paul Thackray via Tech1
>         <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>         ?
>
>         Riverside is open again (but LWT and Thames both went)
>
>         Quite a few new studios will be film stages not TV studios
>
>         Paul Thackray
>
>         PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
>
>         07802 243979
>
>         Mail;?paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
>
>         Web;?http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
>
>         Linkedin;???http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
>
>         IMDB;?http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/
>
>         sent from my BlackBerry?the most secure mobile device?via the
>         O2 Network
>
>         *From:*tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>
>         *Sent:*7 February 2020 12:48
>
>         *To:*tonys at tonyscott.org.uk; vernon.dyer at btinternet.com
>
>         *Reply to:*pat.heigham at amps.net
>
>         *Cc:*Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>
>         *Subject:*Re: [Tech1] Studios
>
>         Unsurprising because of closure of studios once available at
>         TVC, LG Riverside and TVT?
>
>         At least, if new stages are built at the recognised studios,
>         we might be lucky with having properly soundproofed and
>         acoustically treated venues, to obtain decent sound, rather
>         than suffering converted warehouses!
>
>         Pat
>
>         Sent from Mail
>         <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>
>         *From: *Tony Scott via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>         *Sent: *07 February 2020 00:13
>         *To: *vernon.dyer <mailto:vernon.dyer at btinternet.com>
>         *Cc: *Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>         *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Studios
>
>         On Thu, 6 Feb 2020, 22:27 vernon.dyer <http://vernon.dyer> via
>         Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>             ..... and not really surprising!
>
>             Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
>             -------- Original message --------
>
>             From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>             <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>>
>
>             Date: 06/02/2020 20:14 (GMT+00:00)
>
>             To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>             <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>>
>
>             Subject: [Tech1] Studios
>
>             Interesting item on the news this evening. Apparently,
>             Pinewood, Shepperton, Elstree and Neasden are all
>             expanding, because of the increased demand for studios.
>
>             For some reason, I find this vaguely irritating.
>
>             luv, Rog.
>
>         -- 
>         Tech1 mailing list
>         Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>         http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>         -- 
>         Tech1 mailing list
>         Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>         http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>

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From davidslawson at btinternet.com  Sat Feb  8 09:35:36 2020
From: davidslawson at btinternet.com (David Lawson)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 15:35:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New TV recomendations
Message-ID: <13A0F4C4-758A-4249-A982-80F9973E49C1@btinternet.com>

Hi All

I know this subject has been discussed in the past but I can?t find any posting which means they would have been quite old by now. 
I?m looking to replace my 10ish year old 38in with a 49/50in smart tv so I thought I could ask the experts. 
What features are worth having and what are a waste of space.
If your crystal ball is up to it, what new features are likely to be worth having.

Now that should start a few good discussions/arguments.

Thanks in advance for your great wisdom before my brain melts searching the internet.

Dave Lawson

From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Feb  8 10:12:33 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 16:12:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New TV recomendations
In-Reply-To: <13A0F4C4-758A-4249-A982-80F9973E49C1@btinternet.com>
References: <13A0F4C4-758A-4249-A982-80F9973E49C1@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <02A0EFC8-B99E-4999-ABCA-A149808BACCD@me.com>

I would suggest that you keep well away from Sony Bravia smart TVs.  I've got one and it's disgracefully poor at doing the 'smart' things.  Furthermore, things it did perfectly well when it was new ( 2-3 years ago ), such as iPlayer and other streaming services have stopped working altogether and there seems to be no way to bring them back into life.  I could list a whole load of other flaws with this TV, but you probably get my drift.

Be aware that some smart TVs report back to the manufacturers about your viewing habits.  My Sony sneakily switches itself on again a couple of minutes after I switch it off, but keeps the screen and LEDs dark while it does whatever it does and then fully switches itself off a few minutes later  I know this because I noticed a sudden small surge in power consumption when using a power meter and subsequently investigated out what was causing it.  If you are concerned about such data being passed on to others, you might care to find out which operating system is used on any smart TV which you are considering, and whether the manufacturer explains what they do with your data.

My solution so far has been to use an old iPad as a streaming device for the UK catch-up services, but I am looking for a set-top box which will receive live transmissions from an aerial and satellite, record them to a hard drive and also stream on-line services. My 'smart' TV will simply be used as a display device because the display is pretty decent.  An iPad is frugal with regards to power consumption and I can download new versions of the catch-up players when they are released.  I just happen to have a surplus one lying around, so it's a good solution for me, especially as I don't watch much TV and aren't bothered by having remote controls etc.

I don't have any experience of plug-in sticks which provide streaming services and plug into HDMI sockets.  Do any of our group use one?

Alan Taylor



On 8 Feb 2020, at 8 Feb . 15:35, David Lawson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi All
> 
> I know this subject has been discussed in the past but I can?t find any posting which means they would have been quite old by now. 
> I?m looking to replace my 10ish year old 38in with a 49/50in smart tv so I thought I could ask the experts. 
> What features are worth having and what are a waste of space.
> If your crystal ball is up to it, what new features are likely to be worth having.
> 
> Now that should start a few good discussions/arguments.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your great wisdom before my brain melts searching the internet.
> 
> Dave Lawson
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sat Feb  8 10:29:41 2020
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 16:29:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New TV recomendations
In-Reply-To: <13A0F4C4-758A-4249-A982-80F9973E49C1@btinternet.com>
References: <13A0F4C4-758A-4249-A982-80F9973E49C1@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <99E6C4B7-5CE9-4C67-9EA5-51B5FA4F9C84@zero51.force9.co.uk>

There?s a Panasonic TX55GZ950 OLED selling for around ?1499 (was 1259 at Christmas) currently but it?s 55 inches which is the smallest OLED (TV) available. Until LG, who make all the screens for Philips Panasonic Samsung etc, start making, maybe, a 48 inch during this year. Then you?ll have wait months for the price to drop to a sensible level. OLED gives black blacks because the leds are self illuminating so can be switched off. whereas the the ?normal? leds and qleds have backlights or edge lights so you get a bit of unwanted edge illumination or perhaps greyness in dark scenes. However 95% of the time you wont see it and they are a bit brighter if you watch telly with the lights on. And Full HD now means its not very HD as 4k is the new norm, if you want to use Blurays or watch David Attenborough. You are opening a can of worms when you start delving into this and a headache is inevitable. You could do what we do and just use the telly to tune into and listen to ClassicFM off freesat which, at 196 Mhz is about as good as it gets. 

Peter Fox

> On 8 Feb 2020, at 15:36, David Lawson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi All
> 
> I know this subject has been discussed in the past but I can?t find any posting which means they would have been quite old by now. 
> I?m looking to replace my 10ish year old 38in with a 49/50in smart tv so I thought I could ask the experts. 
> What features are worth having and what are a waste of space.
> If your crystal ball is up to it, what new features are likely to be worth having.
> 
> Now that should start a few good discussions/arguments.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your great wisdom before my brain melts searching the internet.
> 
> Dave Lawson
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Sat Feb  8 10:59:37 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 16:59:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re:  New TV recomendations
In-Reply-To: <99E6C4B7-5CE9-4C67-9EA5-51B5FA4F9C84@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <13A0F4C4-758A-4249-A982-80F9973E49C1@btinternet.com>
	<99E6C4B7-5CE9-4C67-9EA5-51B5FA4F9C84@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <d9baa083-1f93-dcd0-20c6-73d672d2bcb4@imixmics.co.uk>

My Panasonic TV is a few years old & has just stopped showing iPlayer, 
which was the only built-in item I used. Luckily, a year or so ago I 
bought a Chromecast plug-in thingy to try & watch some Chan 4 prog on 
catch-up. I haven't used it since - till now. I found I could get all 
the Catch-up apps on my phone & "cast" them to the TV. Once it's "cast" 
you can use the phone as usual. Very happy with that, & it seems fairly 
future-proof.

John

On 08/02/2020 16:29, Peter Fox via Tech1 wrote:
> There?s a Panasonic TX55GZ950 OLED selling for around ?1499 (was 1259 at Christmas) currently but it?s 55 inches which is the smallest OLED (TV) available. Until LG, who make all the screens for Philips Panasonic Samsung etc, start making, maybe, a 48 inch during this year. Then you?ll have wait months for the price to drop to a sensible level. OLED gives black blacks because the leds are self illuminating so can be switched off. whereas the the ?normal? leds and qleds have backlights or edge lights so you get a bit of unwanted edge illumination or perhaps greyness in dark scenes. However 95% of the time you wont see it and they are a bit brighter if you watch telly with the lights on. And Full HD now means its not very HD as 4k is the new norm, if you want to use Blurays or watch David Attenborough. You are opening a can of worms when you start delving into this and a headache is inevitable. You could do what we do and just use the telly to tune into and listen to ClassicFM off freesat which, at 196 Mhz is about as good as it gets.
> 
> Peter Fox
> 
>> On 8 Feb 2020, at 15:36, David Lawson via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> ?Hi All
>>
>> I know this subject has been discussed in the past but I can?t find any posting which means they would have been quite old by now.
>> I?m looking to replace my 10ish year old 38in with a 49/50in smart tv so I thought I could ask the experts.
>> What features are worth having and what are a waste of space.
>> If your crystal ball is up to it, what new features are likely to be worth having.
>>
>> Now that should start a few good discussions/arguments.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your great wisdom before my brain melts searching the internet.
>>
>> Dave Lawson
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 


From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Feb  8 11:08:02 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 17:08:02 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New TV recomendations
In-Reply-To: <36bf07e5-45d0-7172-b90f-87c225eed6e7@gmail.com>
References: <13A0F4C4-758A-4249-A982-80F9973E49C1@btinternet.com>
	<02A0EFC8-B99E-4999-ABCA-A149808BACCD@me.com>
	<36bf07e5-45d0-7172-b90f-87c225eed6e7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F577FA5D-418E-40C7-B6A6-8D150C5487B1@me.com>

With regards to blasting your ears, one of the other irritations of my Sony Bravia TV is that it won't respond to the remote control for about 20 seconds after it has been switched on.  Some of the catch up services we view via the iPad need the TV volume boosted, so if the TV is not restored to normal level when you finish, it shouts at you after you switch it on again and you can't turn it down for at least twenty seconds.  It's also a good job I'm not into sneakily watching porn channels late at night because the channel can't be changed either until then.  It would be very embarrassing if guests were to visit and switch the TV on and see twenty seconds of "Big & Bouncy" before the channel could be changed to something more innocent.

When I was a kid, valve radios and TVs always took several seconds to warm up.  Then we got transistor radios which started instantly, but now we have digital radios and TVs, they take tens of seconds initialising or buffering before we can hear anything.  Is that what they call progress ?

Alan Taylor





On 8 Feb 2020, at 8 Feb . 16:52, Alec Bray <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all
> 
> On 08/02/2020 16:12, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> I don't have any experience of plug-in sticks which provide streaming services and plug into HDMI sockets.  Do any of our group use one?
> I have one for Now TV - mainly to watch Sky Arts ("Portrait/Landscape) Artist of the Year".  It works fine for that. We don't have particularly fast broadband here, but seems to be OK for Now.  Main issue is that the sound volume level is multiple multiple dbs higher that that through the Humax box (Freeserve and PVR) - blasts our ears till we hit the volume controls!
> 
> -- 
> Best Regards
> 
> Alec
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502
> 
> 



From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Feb  8 12:17:27 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 18:17:27 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New TV recomendations
In-Reply-To: <02A0EFC8-B99E-4999-ABCA-A149808BACCD@me.com>
References: <13A0F4C4-758A-4249-A982-80F9973E49C1@btinternet.com>
	<02A0EFC8-B99E-4999-ABCA-A149808BACCD@me.com>
Message-ID: <d28c129e-9542-c6a6-188a-41c619a501e3@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 08/02/2020 16:12, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Be aware that some smart TVs report back to the manufacturers about your viewing habits...

It is nigh on impossible to prevent smart TVs keeping an eye on what you do. In principle you have the opportunity to untick all the tracking options but in practice you end up with a dumb TV if you do that. The Smart-stuff, WPG, web surfing etc simply doesn't work until you tick the boxes.

Similarly the ITV hub, i-player etc all know who you are because of the 
way you have to register you and the set with them.

One partial solution is just to play their game but seed all sorts of 
spurious data into it. For most purposes you can have alternative ages, 
genders and titles, and even some invented addresses for some purposes.

It would be better if it wasn't so but you simply cannot live in the 
current world, and use phones, credit cards etc without the majority of 
your activities being known. I've always wondered if governments would 
ever vote in a system that tracked cars and charged road tax by where 
and when you drove. Of course that would mean that all their 
discretions, nipping off to see the mistress, would be impossible to 
disguise...

> Chris Woolf


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat Feb  8 12:39:25 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 18:39:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New TV recomendations
In-Reply-To: <13A0F4C4-758A-4249-A982-80F9973E49C1@btinternet.com>
References: <13A0F4C4-758A-4249-A982-80F9973E49C1@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <72e3ed88-4512-b689-19a1-8d98492f165c@btinternet.com>

Just recently a customer decided to sue LG because his new OLED TV 
acquired a 'stick' on the screen! (remember those from CRT days?). 
Heaven knows what he was watching and how long he left it in pause. Two 
of my senior engineering colleagues recently bought the new OLED LG TVs 
and it has taken a few weeks to achieve the sort of picture they want! 
Goodness knows what the average Joe Blogs would end up with! Cheers, Dave

On 08/02/2020 15:35, David Lawson via Tech1 wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I know this subject has been discussed in the past but I can?t find any posting which means they would have been quite old by now.
> I?m looking to replace my 10ish year old 38in with a 49/50in smart tv so I thought I could ask the experts.
> What features are worth having and what are a waste of space.
> If your crystal ball is up to it, what new features are likely to be worth having.
>
> Now that should start a few good discussions/arguments.
>
> Thanks in advance for your great wisdom before my brain melts searching the internet.
>
> Dave Lawson


From waresound at msn.com  Sat Feb  8 12:51:16 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 18:51:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New TV recomendations
In-Reply-To: <F577FA5D-418E-40C7-B6A6-8D150C5487B1@me.com>
References: <13A0F4C4-758A-4249-A982-80F9973E49C1@btinternet.com>
	<02A0EFC8-B99E-4999-ABCA-A149808BACCD@me.com>
	<36bf07e5-45d0-7172-b90f-87c225eed6e7@gmail.com>,
	<F577FA5D-418E-40C7-B6A6-8D150C5487B1@me.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271A0BACEAD47FF1BF8B0A5A71F0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

You have to remember that all of these fancy devices are only for selling to the gullible, which I?m afraid includes me big-time. I?m sure you?re not supposed to actually use them!
We have a Humax Freesat box that chooses to randomly ignore its remote control more often than not, and a Samsung TV in the kitchen that displays ?this feature is not available? in response to about 50% of the menu options. I?ve tried firmware updates to both with no success. The sitting room Panasonic (a recent model) lets you select iPlayer progs to view, then after about ten seconds, promptly crashes. iPad streamed to it seems to be the best option.
I have to admit though, I do like watching my dear wife banging the TV remote up and down on the table when it doesn?t respond - as if that?s going to help!

The first remote controlled TV we had in our house was a 17? Radio Rentals B&W telly with a push button remote thingy on the end of a cable. Remember them? Pressing it up or down sent a set of rotary tuning coils clacketing around to get to the channel you wanted. The rotary Ledex device had ten positions, but there were no only three channels to choose from. Those were the days when a Saturday night LE show regularly got 11+ million viewers, and we weren?t bombarded with scores of channels of crap!
Nick (aka Mr Grumpy)
Sent from my iPad mini 5
 
> On 8 Feb 2020, at 17:08, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?[snip]
> When I was a kid, valve radios and TVs always took several seconds to warm up.  Then we got transistor radios which started instantly, but now we have digital radios and TVs, they take tens of seconds initialising or buffering before we can hear anything.  Is that what they call progress ?
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 8 Feb 2020, at 8 Feb . 16:52, Alec Bray <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all
>> 
>>> On 08/02/2020 16:12, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>> I don't have any experience of plug-in sticks which provide streaming services and plug into HDMI sockets.  Do any of our group use one?
>> I have one for Now TV - mainly to watch Sky Arts ("Portrait/Landscape) Artist of the Year".  It works fine for that. We don't have particularly fast broadband here, but seems to be OK for Now.  Main issue is that the sound volume level is multiple multiple dbs higher that that through the Humax box (Freeserve and PVR) - blasts our ears till we hit the volume controls!
>> 
>> -- 
>> Best Regards
>> 
>> Alec
>> 
>> Alec Bray
>> 
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> mob:    07789 561 346
>> home:   0118 981 7502
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat Feb  8 13:51:28 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 19:51:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New TV recomendations
In-Reply-To: <CF5D1B54-76B8-48A6-A8AA-740541FB99FB@icloud.com>
References: <13A0F4C4-758A-4249-A982-80F9973E49C1@btinternet.com>
	<72e3ed88-4512-b689-19a1-8d98492f165c@btinternet.com>
	<CF5D1B54-76B8-48A6-A8AA-740541FB99FB@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <57519dd4-e180-d685-f81e-77c64da3261f@btinternet.com>

Too right! I suppose many of them leave it on the showroom setting as 
seen in John Lewis etc. and think that is correct for their living room 
in more subdued light. I remember many years ago when I took our dog out 
for his evening constitutional I was appalled by the quality of the 
pictures people were watching! I spent many a happy hour converging and 
colour balancing my lovely Tandberg TV to match what I saw at work. 
Cheers, Dave

On 08/02/2020 18:58, Graeme Wall wrote:
> The average Joe Bloggs just accepts whatever picture came out of the box. After all, he paid all that money for it it has to be good, right?
> ?
> Graeme Wall
>
>
>> On 8 Feb 2020, at 18:39, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Just recently a customer decided to sue LG because his new OLED TV acquired a 'stick' on the screen! (remember those from CRT days?). Heaven knows what he was watching and how long he left it in pause. Two of my senior engineering colleagues recently bought the new OLED LG TVs and it has taken a few weeks to achieve the sort of picture they want! Goodness knows what the average Joe Blogs would end up with! Cheers, Dave
>>
>> On 08/02/2020 15:35, David Lawson via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Hi All
>>>
>>> I know this subject has been discussed in the past but I can?t find any posting which means they would have been quite old by now.
>>> I?m looking to replace my 10ish year old 38in with a 49/50in smart tv so I thought I could ask the experts.
>>> What features are worth having and what are a waste of space.
>>> If your crystal ball is up to it, what new features are likely to be worth having.
>>>
>>> Now that should start a few good discussions/arguments.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for your great wisdom before my brain melts searching the internet.
>>>
>>> Dave Lawson
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From davelebreton at btinternet.com  Sat Feb  8 15:36:25 2020
From: davelebreton at btinternet.com (davelebreton at btinternet.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 21:36:25 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] New TV recomendations
In-Reply-To: <57519dd4-e180-d685-f81e-77c64da3261f@btinternet.com>
References: <13A0F4C4-758A-4249-A982-80F9973E49C1@btinternet.com><72e3ed88-4512-b689-19a1-8d98492f165c@btinternet.com><CF5D1B54-76B8-48A6-A8AA-740541FB99FB@icloud.com>
	<57519dd4-e180-d685-f81e-77c64da3261f@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <B446FB0BFF7A4393884A447F4155C4A0@DavidPC>

I think I must be one of the engineers that Dave was referring to - so I 
will elaborate a bit.  I bought a 49" LG LED (not OLED) last June to replace 
our trusty non-smart 37" Panasonic, bought in the days when there was only 
one HD channel.  It was reduced to about ?350 in John Lewis and wasn't 
listed for long after my purchase - last year's model, I guess.  Yes, it did 
take a while to get a picture I was happy with, but since then I haven't 
found the need to fiddle at all.  The main enemy seemed to be the "autos" 
and "ecos", but I was pleased that everything (even gamma) was adjustable. 
Initially I was disappointed with the limited peak white brightness, but it 
hasn't proved to be a problem.  We don't watch in total darkness so no 
problems with black level.  Picture and sound appear very promptly on 
pressing the "go" button.  At our normal viewing distance, 4K (from YouTube 
or Amazon Prime) is of little benefit - need a bigger screen for that 
really.  Smart facilities like the ability to watch a programme that had 
already started from the beginning are great - but the ready access to 
YouTube has got me hooked - trains, planes, music all with a couple of 
clicks is just too easy!

Dave LeB

-----Original Message----- 
From: dave.mdv via Tech1
Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2020 7:51 PM
To: Graeme Wall ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] New TV recomendations

Too right! I suppose many of them leave it on the showroom setting as
seen in John Lewis etc. and think that is correct for their living room
in more subdued light. I remember many years ago when I took our dog out
for his evening constitutional I was appalled by the quality of the
pictures people were watching! I spent many a happy hour converging and
colour balancing my lovely Tandberg TV to match what I saw at work.
Cheers, Dave

On 08/02/2020 18:58, Graeme Wall wrote:
> The average Joe Bloggs just accepts whatever picture came out of the box. 
> After all, he paid all that money for it it has to be good, right?
> ?
> Graeme Wall
>
>
>> On 8 Feb 2020, at 18:39, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Just recently a customer decided to sue LG because his new OLED TV 
>> acquired a 'stick' on the screen! (remember those from CRT days?). Heaven 
>> knows what he was watching and how long he left it in pause. Two of my 
>> senior engineering colleagues recently bought the new OLED LG TVs and it 
>> has taken a few weeks to achieve the sort of picture they want! Goodness 
>> knows what the average Joe Blogs would end up with! Cheers, Dave
>>
>> On 08/02/2020 15:35, David Lawson via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Hi All
>>>
>>> I know this subject has been discussed in the past but I can?t find any 
>>> posting which means they would have been quite old by now.
>>> I?m looking to replace my 10ish year old 38in with a 49/50in smart tv so 
>>> I thought I could ask the experts.
>>> What features are worth having and what are a waste of space.
>>> If your crystal ball is up to it, what new features are likely to be 
>>> worth having.
>>>
>>> Now that should start a few good discussions/arguments.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for your great wisdom before my brain melts searching 
>>> the internet.
>>>
>>> Dave Lawson
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 



From mibridge at mac.com  Sun Feb  9 03:22:31 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 09:22:31 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New TV recomendations
In-Reply-To: <B446FB0BFF7A4393884A447F4155C4A0@DavidPC>
References: <B446FB0BFF7A4393884A447F4155C4A0@DavidPC>
Message-ID: <67A6749C-48F0-4173-B48F-A1120EF67E68@mac.com>

We have Samsung sets in the lounge and the kitchen, the kitchen one being a bit newer and I am surprised that even with a recent software update, the lounge set does not allow watching from the beginning of a programme which has already started, whereas the kitchen set did from the word go. I would have thought it was an iPlayer function, rather than being specific to the set, but it seems otherwise. The two handsets are slightly different but interchangeable between the TVs, but the onscreen menu for TV on demand is not the same. 

As to picture quality, I have tweaked several times, but have never been entirely happy with the difference between one programme and another - get it right for the majority of things like news and drama, then with things like Strictly the faces take on a Trump-like hue, but perhaps they?ve all overdone the spray tan. 

Mike G

> On 8 Feb 2020, at 21:38, davelebreton--- via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I think I must be one of the engineers that Dave was referring to - so I will elaborate a bit.  I bought a 49" LG LED (not OLED) last June to replace our trusty non-smart 37" Panasonic, bought in the days when there was only one HD channel.  It was reduced to about ?350 in John Lewis and wasn't listed for long after my purchase - last year's model, I guess.  Yes, it did take a while to get a picture I was happy with, but since then I haven't found the need to fiddle at all.  The main enemy seemed to be the "autos" and "ecos", but I was pleased that everything (even gamma) was adjustable. Initially I was disappointed with the limited peak white brightness, but it hasn't proved to be a problem.  We don't watch in total darkness so no problems with black level.  Picture and sound appear very promptly on pressing the "go" button.  At our normal viewing distance, 4K (from YouTube or Amazon Prime) is of little benefit - need a bigger screen for that really.  Smart facilities like the ability to watch a programme that had already started from the beginning are great - but the ready access to YouTube has got me hooked - trains, planes, music all with a couple of clicks is just too easy!
> 
> Dave LeB
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1
> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2020 7:51 PM
> To: Graeme Wall ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] New TV recomendations
> 
> Too right! I suppose many of them leave it on the showroom setting as
> seen in John Lewis etc. and think that is correct for their living room
> in more subdued light. I remember many years ago when I took our dog out
> for his evening constitutional I was appalled by the quality of the
> pictures people were watching! I spent many a happy hour converging and
> colour balancing my lovely Tandberg TV to match what I saw at work.
> Cheers, Dave
> 
>> On 08/02/2020 18:58, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> The average Joe Bloggs just accepts whatever picture came out of the box. After all, he paid all that money for it it has to be good, right?
>> ?
>> Graeme Wall
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 8 Feb 2020, at 18:39, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just recently a customer decided to sue LG because his new OLED TV acquired a 'stick' on the screen! (remember those from CRT days?). Heaven knows what he was watching and how long he left it in pause. Two of my senior engineering colleagues recently bought the new OLED LG TVs and it has taken a few weeks to achieve the sort of picture they want! Goodness knows what the average Joe Blogs would end up with! Cheers, Dave
>>> 
>>> On 08/02/2020 15:35, David Lawson via Tech1 wrote:
>>>> Hi All
>>>> 
>>>> I know this subject has been discussed in the past but I can?t find any posting which means they would have been quite old by now.
>>>> I?m looking to replace my 10ish year old 38in with a 49/50in smart tv so I thought I could ask the experts.
>>>> What features are worth having and what are a waste of space.
>>>> If your crystal ball is up to it, what new features are likely to be worth having.
>>>> 
>>>> Now that should start a few good discussions/arguments.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks in advance for your great wisdom before my brain melts searching the internet.
>>>> 
>>>> Dave Lawson
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Feb  9 03:50:22 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 09:50:22 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New TV recomendations
In-Reply-To: <67A6749C-48F0-4173-B48F-A1120EF67E68@mac.com>
References: <B446FB0BFF7A4393884A447F4155C4A0@DavidPC>
	<67A6749C-48F0-4173-B48F-A1120EF67E68@mac.com>
Message-ID: <DF53F77F-E266-40E6-BF9C-234E295E108D@me.com>

My much despised Sony Bravia TV has both satellite and terrestrial tuners.  When watching BBC channels via terrestrial, I could restart the show from the beginning with a single button press, but it wouldn't let you do that when viewing that same BBC channel via FreeSat.  

Alan Taylor





On 9 Feb 2020, at 9 Feb . 09:22, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> We have Samsung sets in the lounge and the kitchen, the kitchen one being a bit newer and I am surprised that even with a recent software update, the lounge set does not allow watching from the beginning of a programme which has already started, whereas the kitchen set did from the word go. I would have thought it was an iPlayer function, rather than being specific to the set, but it seems otherwise. The two handsets are slightly different but interchangeable between the TVs, but the onscreen menu for TV on demand is not the same. 
> 
> As to picture quality, I have tweaked several times, but have never been entirely happy with the difference between one programme and another - get it right for the majority of things like news and drama, then with things like Strictly the faces take on a Trump-like hue, but perhaps they?ve all overdone the spray tan. 
> 
> Mike G
> 
>> On 8 Feb 2020, at 21:38, davelebreton--- via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I think I must be one of the engineers that Dave was referring to - so I will elaborate a bit.  I bought a 49" LG LED (not OLED) last June to replace our trusty non-smart 37" Panasonic, bought in the days when there was only one HD channel.  It was reduced to about ?350 in John Lewis and wasn't listed for long after my purchase - last year's model, I guess.  Yes, it did take a while to get a picture I was happy with, but since then I haven't found the need to fiddle at all.  The main enemy seemed to be the "autos" and "ecos", but I was pleased that everything (even gamma) was adjustable. Initially I was disappointed with the limited peak white brightness, but it hasn't proved to be a problem.  We don't watch in total darkness so no problems with black level.  Picture and sound appear very promptly on pressing the "go" button.  At our normal viewing distance, 4K (from YouTube or Amazon Prime) is of little benefit - need a bigger screen for that really.  Smart facilities like the ability to watch a programme that had already started from the beginning are great - but the ready access to YouTube has got me hooked - trains, planes, music all with a couple of clicks is just too easy!
>> 
>> Dave LeB
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1
>> Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2020 7:51 PM
>> To: Graeme Wall ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] New TV recomendations
>> 
>> Too right! I suppose many of them leave it on the showroom setting as
>> seen in John Lewis etc. and think that is correct for their living room
>> in more subdued light. I remember many years ago when I took our dog out
>> for his evening constitutional I was appalled by the quality of the
>> pictures people were watching! I spent many a happy hour converging and
>> colour balancing my lovely Tandberg TV to match what I saw at work.
>> Cheers, Dave
>> 
>>> On 08/02/2020 18:58, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> The average Joe Bloggs just accepts whatever picture came out of the box. After all, he paid all that money for it it has to be good, right?
>>> ?
>>> Graeme Wall
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> On 8 Feb 2020, at 18:39, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Just recently a customer decided to sue LG because his new OLED TV acquired a 'stick' on the screen! (remember those from CRT days?). Heaven knows what he was watching and how long he left it in pause. Two of my senior engineering colleagues recently bought the new OLED LG TVs and it has taken a few weeks to achieve the sort of picture they want! Goodness knows what the average Joe Blogs would end up with! Cheers, Dave
>>>> 
>>>> On 08/02/2020 15:35, David Lawson via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> Hi All
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know this subject has been discussed in the past but I can?t find any posting which means they would have been quite old by now.
>>>>> I?m looking to replace my 10ish year old 38in with a 49/50in smart tv so I thought I could ask the experts.
>>>>> What features are worth having and what are a waste of space.
>>>>> If your crystal ball is up to it, what new features are likely to be worth having.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now that should start a few good discussions/arguments.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks in advance for your great wisdom before my brain melts searching the internet.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dave Lawson
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dave at davesound.co.uk  Sun Feb  9 05:53:51 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2020 11:53:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] New TV recomendations
In-Reply-To: <67A6749C-48F0-4173-B48F-A1120EF67E68@mac.com>
References: <B446FB0BFF7A4393884A447F4155C4A0@DavidPC>
	<67A6749C-48F0-4173-B48F-A1120EF67E68@mac.com>
Message-ID: <583f944248dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <67A6749C-48F0-4173-B48F-A1120EF67E68 at mac.com>,
   Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> As to picture quality, I have tweaked several times, but have never been
> entirely happy with the difference between one programme and another -
> get it right for the majority of things like news and drama, then with
> things like Strictly the faces take on a Trump-like hue, but perhaps
> they?ve all overdone the spray tan.

I had a Samsung big screen TV. Factory setup was awful. And adjusting it
not obvious as they seemed to call things by odd names in the menu.
Eventually a bit of Googling found out how to set it reasonably - but was
never exactly how I'd like it.

Replaced by a 65" Panny. Which does pretty well everything I want like
FreeView replay from the EPG, and watch a currently being transmitted prog
from the start. As well as all the various players.

Picture quality is OK - but still nothing like as good colour wise as a
decent ol' CRT set. Mainly with flesh tones.

Internal speakers are awful - but then so are all sets with rear facing
speakers. It also only has a Toslink output to a Hi-Fi (only analogue
sound out is the headphone socket) so had to buy an adaptor.

The GUI on the Panny is nothing special. But then neither is that on my
Humax PVRs. Wish Topfield were still on the go. ;-)

-- 
*I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe*

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Sun Feb  9 10:45:13 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 16:45:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Who? (Not the Doctor)
References: <1105990919.729774.1581266713667.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1105990919.729774.1581266713667@mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Sound People - or anyone who knows Sound People,
Can someone supply the names of these two characters. One boom op, and one Sound Supervisor. I know I really ought to remember their names, but my ageing brain just isn't managing it, at the moment.
luv, Rog.

l.
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From mibridge at mac.com  Sun Feb  9 10:52:28 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 16:52:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Who? (Not the Doctor)
In-Reply-To: <1105990919.729774.1581266713667@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1105990919.729774.1581266713667@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CEAA8581-6733-49F1-8FF6-41F43E475081@mac.com>

The SS is definitely Richard Chubb and the boom op could just be Howard Jones, but I?m not confident about that. 

Mike G

> On 9 Feb 2020, at 16:46, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Dear Sound People - or anyone who knows Sound People,
> 
> Can someone supply the names of these two characters. One boom op, and one Sound Supervisor. I know I really ought to remember their names, but my ageing brain just isn't managing it, at the moment.
> 
> luv, Rog.
> 
> 
> l.
> <Screen Shot 2019-11-19 at 16.05.56.png>
> 
> <BehindScenes02.JPG>
> <Screen Shot 2019-11-19 at 16.05.56.png>
> <BehindScenes02.JPG>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From billjenkin67 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  9 12:09:37 2020
From: billjenkin67 at gmail.com (Bill Jenkin)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 18:09:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Tech stuff
In-Reply-To: <2033756302.746319.1581267155456@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2033756302.746319.1581267155456.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2033756302.746319.1581267155456@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6tP4AAEvpuU7c2KPatBdSzYnNx5ny2P2=n1hHbmPr4QbdB1A@mail.gmail.com>

Tha cable used for the EMI 2001s etc was G101.
Later on we used TV36 or was it TV39? for the Link 110s etc (or did they
come in later?).
Bill J

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020, 16:52 ROGER BUNCE, <rogerbunce at btinternet.com> wrote:

> Dear People who know the names/numbers of Technical stuff, can you help me.
>
> Q1: What was the mark number of the early Marconi colour cameras? - the
> huge ones that needed ped trackers and had an enlarged ring steer, which
> lived on in Pres. after they had been abandoned elsewhere?
>
> Q2: What was the name/number of the cables that plugged into EMI 2001s?
> (did it have a 'G' in it somewhere?)
>
> luv, Rog.
>
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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Sun Feb  9 12:16:27 2020
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2020 19:16:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tech stuff
In-Reply-To: <CAE6tP4AAEvpuU7c2KPatBdSzYnNx5ny2P2=n1hHbmPr4QbdB1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <utunmtoes4gf91p6bpsjge8b.1581272187946@pgtmedia.co.uk>

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From robin.sutherland at ukgateway.net  Sun Feb  9 12:32:33 2020
From: robin.sutherland at ukgateway.net (Robin Sutherland)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 18:32:33 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Tech stuff
In-Reply-To: <CAE6tP4AAEvpuU7c2KPatBdSzYnNx5ny2P2=n1hHbmPr4QbdB1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2033756302.746319.1581267155456.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2033756302.746319.1581267155456@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAE6tP4AAEvpuU7c2KPatBdSzYnNx5ny2P2=n1hHbmPr4QbdB1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5554DA26-19AA-4024-85EB-9841941703DF@ukgateway.net>

On OBs the riggers were very happy when G101 was replaced by triax when LDK5s replaced the EMIs, but then discovered they would have to run miles more of it as it worked over much longer distances.

Have a look at https://www.tvcameramuseum.org/ <https://www.tvcameramuseum.org/> where Brian Summers has amassed an amazing amount of stuff on every camera you knew about and many you?ve never heard of.

First Marconi colour cameras at TVC were Mk 7s Rog.

Cheers

Robin S


> On 9 Feb 2020, at 18:09, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Tha cable used for the EMI 2001s etc was G101.
> Later on we used TV36 or was it TV39? for the Link 110s etc (or did they come in later?).
> Bill J
> 
> On Sun, 9 Feb 2020, 16:52 ROGER BUNCE, <rogerbunce at btinternet.com <mailto:rogerbunce at btinternet.com>> wrote:
> Dear People who know the names/numbers of Technical stuff, can you help me.
> 
> Q1: What was the mark number of the early Marconi colour cameras? - the huge ones that needed ped trackers and had an enlarged ring steer, which lived on in Pres. after they had been abandoned elsewhere?
> 
> Q2: What was the name/number of the cables that plugged into EMI 2001s? (did it have a 'G' in it somewhere?)
> 
> luv, Rog.
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From dudley.darby at gmail.com  Sun Feb  9 13:40:24 2020
From: dudley.darby at gmail.com (Dudley Darby)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 19:40:24 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Tech stuff
In-Reply-To: <CAE6tP4AAEvpuU7c2KPatBdSzYnNx5ny2P2=n1hHbmPr4QbdB1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2033756302.746319.1581267155456.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2033756302.746319.1581267155456@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAE6tP4AAEvpuU7c2KPatBdSzYnNx5ny2P2=n1hHbmPr4QbdB1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1828FA43429A4326975BC07073BDBB0F@CustomPC>

TV39 was the cable used on the Ikegami HL-79A and 79D. 39-pin cable as
opposed to TV36 which had a couple of coaxial pins. The early huge colour
camera was a Marconi Mk. VII. Great fun using an engine hoist to move them
on and off pedestals.

 

Dudley

 

Dudley C. Darby

 

Email:  <mailto:Dudley.Darby at gmail.com> Dudley.Darby at gmail.com

 

P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

  _____  

From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of Bill Jenkin
via Tech1
Sent: 09 February 2020 18:10
To: Tech-Ops. co. uk email group
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Tech stuff

 

Tha cable used for the EMI 2001s etc was G101.

Later on we used TV36 or was it TV39? for the Link 110s etc (or did they
come in later?).

Bill J

 

On Sun, 9 Feb 2020, 16:52 ROGER BUNCE, <rogerbunce at btinternet.com> wrote:

Dear People who know the names/numbers of Technical stuff, can you help me.

 

Q1: What was the mark number of the early Marconi colour cameras? - the huge
ones that needed ped trackers and had an enlarged ring steer, which lived on
in Pres. after they had been abandoned elsewhere?

 

Q2: What was the name/number of the cables that plugged into EMI 2001s? (did
it have a 'G' in it somewhere?)

 

luv, Rog.

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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Sun Feb  9 13:47:10 2020
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2020 20:47:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tech stuff
In-Reply-To: <1828FA43429A4326975BC07073BDBB0F@CustomPC>
Message-ID: <5360vvh0og5qtil65h265d98.1581277630078@pgtmedia.co.uk>

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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sun Feb  9 14:59:29 2020
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 20:59:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Tech stuff
In-Reply-To: <CAE6tP4AAEvpuU7c2KPatBdSzYnNx5ny2P2=n1hHbmPr4QbdB1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAE6tP4AAEvpuU7c2KPatBdSzYnNx5ny2P2=n1hHbmPr4QbdB1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F11C7B9C-CDEC-4FF2-BD62-3B27D221755E@zero51.force9.co.uk>

There was TV39 as well as TV36. Bosch Fernseh? 

Peter Fox

> On 9 Feb 2020, at 18:10, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Tha cable used for the EMI 2001s etc was G101.
> Later on we used TV36 or was it TV39? for the Link 110s etc (or did they come in later?).
> Bill J
> 
>> On Sun, 9 Feb 2020, 16:52 ROGER BUNCE, <rogerbunce at btinternet.com> wrote:
>> Dear People who know the names/numbers of Technical stuff, can you help me.
>> 
>> Q1: What was the mark number of the early Marconi colour cameras? - the huge ones that needed ped trackers and had an enlarged ring steer, which lived on in Pres. after they had been abandoned elsewhere?
>> 
>> Q2: What was the name/number of the cables that plugged into EMI 2001s? (did it have a 'G' in it somewhere?)
>> 
>> luv, Rog.
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Mon Feb 10 03:51:25 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 09:51:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Tech stuff
In-Reply-To: <F11C7B9C-CDEC-4FF2-BD62-3B27D221755E@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <CAE6tP4AAEvpuU7c2KPatBdSzYnNx5ny2P2=n1hHbmPr4QbdB1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<F11C7B9C-CDEC-4FF2-BD62-3B27D221755E@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <665014480.1158584.1581328285119@mail.yahoo.com>

 TV36? Wasn't that our Union Branch?
luv, Rog.

    On Sunday, 9 February 2020, 21:00:06 GMT, Peter Fox via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:  
 
 There was TV39 as well as TV36. Bosch Fernseh??

Peter Fox

On 9 Feb 2020, at 18:10, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:



?Tha cable used for the EMI 2001s etc was G101.Later on we used TV36 or was it TV39? for the Link 110s etc (or did they come in later?).
Bill J
On Sun, 9 Feb 2020, 16:52 ROGER BUNCE, <rogerbunce at btinternet.com> wrote:

Dear People who know the names/numbers of Technical stuff, can you help me.
Q1: What was the mark number of the early Marconi colour cameras? - the huge ones that needed ped trackers and had an enlarged ring steer, which lived on in Pres. after they had been abandoned elsewhere?
Q2: What was the name/number of the cables that plugged into EMI 2001s? (did it have a 'G' in it somewhere?)
luv, Rog.
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
  
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From tonys at tonyscott.org.uk  Mon Feb 10 03:54:29 2020
From: tonys at tonyscott.org.uk (Tony Scott)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 09:54:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Tech stuff
In-Reply-To: <665014480.1158584.1581328285119@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAE6tP4AAEvpuU7c2KPatBdSzYnNx5ny2P2=n1hHbmPr4QbdB1A@mail.gmail.com>
	<F11C7B9C-CDEC-4FF2-BD62-3B27D221755E@zero51.force9.co.uk>
	<665014480.1158584.1581328285119@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAOw_4rYhazxDPMyUSSqJuinj9wh0vuOFtPi9_=i_FBSYRq+Yag@mail.gmail.com>

TV5!

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020, 09:51 ROGER BUNCE via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> TV36? Wasn't that our Union Branch?
>
> luv, Rog.
>
>
> On Sunday, 9 February 2020, 21:00:06 GMT, Peter Fox via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> There was TV39 as well as TV36. Bosch Fernseh?
>
> Peter Fox
>
> On 9 Feb 2020, at 18:10, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> ?
> Tha cable used for the EMI 2001s etc was G101.
> Later on we used TV36 or was it TV39? for the Link 110s etc (or did they
> come in later?).
> Bill J
>
> On Sun, 9 Feb 2020, 16:52 ROGER BUNCE, <rogerbunce at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> Dear People who know the names/numbers of Technical stuff, can you help me.
>
> Q1: What was the mark number of the early Marconi colour cameras? - the
> huge ones that needed ped trackers and had an enlarged ring steer, which
> lived on in Pres. after they had been abandoned elsewhere?
>
> Q2: What was the name/number of the cables that plugged into EMI 2001s?
> (did it have a 'G' in it somewhere?)
>
> luv, Rog.
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Feb 10 06:29:45 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 12:29:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] New TV recommendations
In-Reply-To: <583f944248dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <B446FB0BFF7A4393884A447F4155C4A0@DavidPC>
	<67A6749C-48F0-4173-B48F-A1120EF67E68@mac.com>
	<583f944248dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5e414cb9.1c69fb81.b64ae.2477@mx.google.com>

A well respected production mixer with whom I worked a lot, has a large Samsung Smart TV, with which he is pleased, but he warns against getting a curved screen version, as it reflects your room lights from all over!
My viewing set-up in a small flat is:
Sony Bravia 32? ? quite old, now, but used only as a monitor, being fed by RGB component from two Sony DVD recorders, used as tuners, via a switcher.
Audio from the players into Quad 44/405 amps and BNS speakers (bought from Nick Ware ? thanks for those, Nick!).
Bedroom has Samsung 22? Smart TV on bedside table, audio from its headphone socket into a Bose Soundlink Mini II which is tiny but packs a punch. Can?t wind it up too high ? one of the restrictions of flat dwelling.
I also use a Panasonic projector which handles Hi-Def, but not rigged in the flat. It?s used mostly for running local Am-Dram screenings of their latest productions in a village hall ? can use my 9 ft screen for those.
Pic attached of the 6? screen in a friends? dining room, having run several film shows for their friends, usually off Blu-Ray discs. Last effort was ?Fiddler on the Roof? originally shot in Panavision anamorphic to 35mm, so I managed to get the 9? screen into the room!
Other pic is an outdoor ?Sunday Night Cinema? in Somerset, 9? screen but 16mm in those days!
Best
Pat


 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 09 February 2020 11:55
To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] New TV recomendations

I had a Samsung big screen TV. Factory setup was awful. And adjusting it
not obvious as they seemed to call things by odd names in the menu.
Eventually a bit of Googling found out how to set it reasonably - but was
never exactly how I'd like it.

Internal speakers are awful - but then so are all sets with rear facing
speakers. It also only has a Toslink output to a Hi-Fi (only analogue
sound out is the headphone socket) so had to buy an adaptor.

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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Tue Feb 11 02:51:19 2020
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 08:51:19 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Who? (Not the Doctor)
In-Reply-To: <CEAA8581-6733-49F1-8FF6-41F43E475081@mac.com>
References: <1105990919.729774.1581266713667@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CEAA8581-6733-49F1-8FF6-41F43E475081@mac.com>
Message-ID: <242850287.346308.1581411079037@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Feb 11 05:24:15 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 11:24:15 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
Message-ID: <E6FAC33E-9964-4E76-B029-EF914D6278F9@me.com>

Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing movies I've ever seen.  Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about the way that it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the entire movie and of course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it.  However I was also impressed by the sound track.  I don't ever recall going to a film where silence has been such a prominent feature, which is all the more surprising because the story set in the middle of a battlefield and conventionally, such a movie would have explosions and noises all the time.  Having the courage to pull the sound effects right back and only use them when needed was a masterstroke because it draws you in to what is happening to the main characters.  Obviously by being quiet for extended periods, it also offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the audience with sudden loud noises. 

It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I worked on.  In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded about it, despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits as well as loud bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to be uninteresting, while clever use of light and shade makes for impressive pictures.  For me the breakthrough came when I did a Film Two drama ( shot on video ), "The Russian Soldier", which few people now remember.  The director was Gavin Millar and he liked the idea of enhancing the narrative by exploiting silence.  The principle location was a farm in a remote part of Dorset and the tense nature of the storyline meant that periods of silence worked well, it drew your attention to subtle reactions by the actors, it was as though you could almost hear the character's brains working as events unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we could easily hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask everybody to leave them behind.  There was scene where the dialogue went from a barely audible whisper to the loudest possible angry shout just a fraction of a second later. In order to handle the dynamic range, I fed the microphone to two channels, one set at a level for whispers, with the other set for the screaming.  The whisper channel was rapidly faded out on cue, while the screaming channel was left up throughout. A second, more distant microphone was also left faded up, which provided a touch of room ambience to the shouting, which made it sound even louder. This was in the days before split track recordings were feasible on VT, so it was important to get it right on the recording.  I did take the precaution of making a safety recording on a Nagra, but didn't need to use it.  The scene was very emotional and the actors didn't want to keep rehearsing it or shooting it, so after a quick rehearsal, the red light went on and every take was useable, retakes were only needed for performance reasons.

I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat concerned when Gavin started telling me about the music.  He told me that he had managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an Oscar for his score on The Deer Hunter.  I was a young TV sound supervisor and I initially felt somewhat intimidated by the prospect of working with somebody of his stature and was worried that he might be intending to deliver a massive orchestral music score which would be at odds with the ideas I had for the sound track, but when we started discussing it, we found ourselves in complete agreement.  I had experienced issues previously where composers delivered music which largely obliterated important dialogue and wanted to explain to him how I like the music and dialogue to co-exist harmoniously, but needed to be diplomatic so as not to cause offence. The comparison I made was with any typical Frank Sinatra recording, especially those scored by Nelson Riddle.  What you think you hear is a massive orchestra giving all they've got with Frank singing over the top if it.  What actually happens is that the orchestra gives everything they've got during the intro, but when Frank sings, the only thing continuing behind him is the rhythm section strumming along, with no strident trumpets. His voice is always clearly heard.  At the end of each phrase, the orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the brass section. The music weaves around the voice, never competing, dropping away just in time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved that comparison, especially as it was described in a way which made perfect sense to a musician, so much so that he went on to say that he proposed to pinch that comparison and use it during his lectures on score writing.  

Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue peak to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely.  Obviously you don't just leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if the faders had been left alone, it would have been perfectly usable.  During one particularly emotional scene, the music was barely peaking 1 and was borderline inaudible at times, but that's exactly how he wanted it and it worked beautifully.

As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production meeting in Threshold House for another drama.  During the small talk prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that they had cast an actor for a major role because she claimed she could play the piano, which was only  minor requirement for her role, but that morning they discovered that the only tune she could play was the theme from Deer Hunter and while that tune would have been OK within the story, he was concerned by how much it might cost to get the rights to use music from an American film. I pointed out that the composer was Stanley Myers and that he was British, so it might be OK after all.  He was still doubtful, so I asked him if I could use his phone.  I opened my Filofax, phoned Stanley Myers and explained the problem.  He said it should be perfectly straightforward and not very expensive, asking for our people to contact his people for it to be sorted.  I told the producer that the composer is happy for it to be used and it won't be expensive.  The look of the others in the room was priceless when they realised I had just called a Hollywood composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their problem. For some reason I completely forgot to let them know that there wasn't another composer on the planet who I could have made such a call with.

On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively.  On a police drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a patrol car were bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle of the night when there is an explosion in a nearby factory.  Rather than leave absolute silence, I decided to subtly add quiet sounds which you might not normally be aware of.  Library 'atmos' recordings were trawled through, but without much success and even the much-used "distant dog" disk was far too prominent, so I used a portable DAT recorder to record some suitable stuff in the middle of the night such as a train passing three or four miles distant or occasional cars passing quite a long way away.  Distinct recordings of things with a lot of air between them and the microphone sound quite different to a conventional recording played quietly.  It worked well in the mix because when you half hear such things, you seem to listen that little bit harder to try and work out what's there, which means that when the explosion comes, you jump out of your seat.  The gram op eagerly offered to jump up and down at the back of the dubbing suite when the explosion happened to make it seem more powerful for the director, but I declined his kind offer.

Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more challenging in that respect because Phillip Saville was one of those directors who always wanted everything turned up to 11 all the time.  There were some scenes where I knew we needed a large dynamic range because of explosive effects or explosive dialogue, but if Phillip had had his way, there would have been no headroom for the loud parts to rise into.  I always used to print dubbing sheets, which had a linear timeline, typically showing two to three minutes per page, with each track laid out vertically and plenty of room for my notes.  It gave me a good oversight of what was coming up and helped me keep to schedule.  If I needed to leave room for a loud noise, I would mark my dubbing sheet to warn me at least thirty seconds ahead of that point within the story that I needed to hold the levels a bit lower than usual so that I could make an impact when needed. However, I found that I had to compensate by boosting the control room speakers by a corresponding amount so that Phillip didn't notice.  Once the loud bit had been mixed, there was then the problem of getting back to normal monitoring levels, however scenes such as that were generally the culmination of a build-up, so completing that scene was the ideal time for a quick tea break and normal monitoring levels could resume unnoticed.

Going back to "1917",  for those who haven't yet seen it, I thoroughly recommend it.  My local cinema relegated it to the upstairs screen with fabulously comfy seating for barely one hundred people.  There were only half a dozen other people there yesterday and they remained utterly silent throughout the movie.  I don't recall the last time I watched a movie without being distracted at some point by others in the cinema.  It was well worth a fiver of anybody's money.  I'm sure than any of us folk watching that movie would think countless times "How the hell did they do that?".  There are some YouTube videos explaining much of it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first and only watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.

Alan Taylor
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From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Tue Feb 11 05:59:00 2020
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 11:59:00 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
In-Reply-To: <E6FAC33E-9964-4E76-B029-EF914D6278F9@me.com>
References: <E6FAC33E-9964-4E76-B029-EF914D6278F9@me.com>
Message-ID: <90f53526-e26f-f373-fb61-ff5ac1df6697@imixmics.co.uk>

Agreed. 1917 is a must see movie - brilliant!

John

On 11/02/2020 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing movies 
> I've ever seen. ?Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about the way that 
> it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the entire movie and of 
> course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it. ?However I was also 
> impressed by the sound track. ?I don't ever recall going to a film where 
> silence has been such a prominent feature, which is all the more 
> surprising because the story set in the middle of a battlefield and 
> conventionally, such a movie would have explosions and noises all the 
> time. ?Having the courage to pull the sound effects right back and only 
> use them when needed was a masterstroke because it draws you in to what 
> is happening to the main characters. ?Obviously by being quiet for 
> extended periods, it also offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the 
> audience with sudden loud noises.
> 
> It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to 
> exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I worked 
> on. ?In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded about it, 
> despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits as well as loud 
> bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to be uninteresting, 
> while clever use of light and shade makes for impressive pictures. ?For 
> me the breakthrough came when I did a Film Two drama ( shot on video ), 
> "The Russian Soldier", which few people now remember. ?The director was 
> Gavin Millar and he liked the idea of enhancing the narrative by 
> exploiting silence. ?The principle location was a farm in a remote part 
> of Dorset and the tense nature of the storyline meant that periods of 
> silence worked well, it drew your attention to subtle reactions by the 
> actors, it was as though you could almost hear the character's brains 
> working as events unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we 
> could easily hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask 
> everybody to leave them behind. ?There was scene where the dialogue went 
> from a barely audible whisper to the loudest possible angry shout just a 
> fraction of a second later. In order to handle the dynamic range, I fed 
> the microphone to two channels, one set at a level for whispers, with 
> the other set for the screaming. ?The whisper channel was rapidly faded 
> out on cue, while the screaming channel was left up throughout. A 
> second, more distant microphone was also left faded up, which provided a 
> touch of room ambience to the shouting, which made it sound even louder. 
> This was in the days before split track recordings were feasible on VT, 
> so it was important to get it right on the recording. ?I did take the 
> precaution of making a safety recording on a Nagra, but didn't need to 
> use it. ?The scene was very emotional and the actors didn't want to keep 
> rehearsing it or shooting it, so after a quick rehearsal, the red light 
> went on and every take was useable, retakes were only needed for 
> performance reasons.
> 
> I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat concerned 
> when Gavin started telling me about the music. ?He told me that he had 
> managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an Oscar for his score 
> on The Deer Hunter. ?I was a young TV sound supervisor and I initially 
> felt somewhat intimidated by the prospect of working with somebody of 
> his stature and was worried that he might be intending to deliver a 
> massive orchestral music score which would be at odds with the ideas I 
> had for the sound track, but when we started discussing it, we found 
> ourselves in complete agreement. ?I had experienced issues previously 
> where composers delivered music which largely obliterated important 
> dialogue and wanted to explain to him how I like the music and dialogue 
> to co-exist harmoniously, but needed to be diplomatic so as not to cause 
> offence. The comparison I made was with any typical Frank Sinatra 
> recording, especially those scored by Nelson Riddle. ?What you think you 
> hear is a massive orchestra giving all they've got with Frank singing 
> over the top if it. ?What actually happens is that the orchestra gives 
> everything they've got during the intro, but when Frank sings, the only 
> thing continuing behind him is the rhythm section strumming along, with 
> no strident trumpets. His voice is always clearly heard. ?At the end of 
> each phrase, the orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the brass 
> section. The music weaves around the voice, never competing, dropping 
> away just in time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved that comparison, 
> especially as it was described in a way which made perfect sense to a 
> musician, so much so that he went on to say that he proposed to pinch 
> that comparison and use it during his lectures on score writing.
> 
> Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue peak 
> to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely. ?Obviously you don't just 
> leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if the faders 
> had been left alone, it would have been perfectly usable. ?During one 
> particularly emotional scene, the music was barely peaking 1 and was 
> borderline inaudible at times, but that's exactly how he wanted it and 
> it worked beautifully.
> 
> As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production 
> meeting in Threshold House for another drama. ?During the small talk 
> prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that they had cast 
> an actor for a major role because she claimed she could play the piano, 
> which was only ?minor requirement for her role, but that morning they 
> discovered that the only tune she could play was the theme from Deer 
> Hunter and while that tune would have been OK within the story, he was 
> concerned by how much it might cost to get the rights to use music from 
> an American film. I pointed out that the composer was Stanley Myers and 
> that he was British, so it might be OK after all. ?He was still 
> doubtful, so I asked him if I could use his phone. ?I opened my Filofax, 
> phoned Stanley Myers and explained the problem. ?He said it should be 
> perfectly straightforward and not very expensive, asking for our people 
> to contact his people for it to be sorted. ?I told the producer that the 
> composer is happy for it to be used and it won't be expensive. ?The look 
> of the others in the room was priceless when they realised I had just 
> called a Hollywood composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their 
> problem. For some reason I completely forgot to let them know that there 
> wasn't another composer on the planet who I could have made such a call 
> with.
> 
> On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively. ?On a police 
> drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a patrol car were 
> bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle of the night when 
> there is an explosion in a nearby factory. ?Rather than leave absolute 
> silence, I decided to subtly add quiet sounds which you might not 
> normally be aware of. ?Library 'atmos' recordings were trawled through, 
> but without much success and even the much-used "distant dog" disk was 
> far too prominent, so I used a portable DAT recorder to record some 
> suitable stuff in the middle of the night such as a train passing three 
> or four miles distant or occasional cars passing quite a long way away. 
>  ?Distinct recordings of things with a lot of air between them and the 
> microphone sound quite different to a conventional recording played 
> quietly. ?It worked well in the mix because when you half hear such 
> things, you seem to listen that little bit harder to try and work out 
> what's there, which means that when the explosion comes, you jump out of 
> your seat. ?The gram op eagerly offered to jump up and down at the back 
> of the dubbing suite when the explosion happened to make it seem more 
> powerful for the director, but I declined his kind offer.
> 
> Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more challenging in 
> that respect because Phillip Saville was one of those directors who 
> always wanted everything turned up to 11 all the time. ?There were some 
> scenes where I knew we needed a large dynamic range because of explosive 
> effects or explosive dialogue, but if Phillip had had his way, there 
> would have been no headroom for the loud parts to rise into. ?I always 
> used to print dubbing sheets, which had a linear timeline, typically 
> showing two to three minutes per page, with each track laid out 
> vertically and plenty of room for my notes. ?It gave me a good oversight 
> of what was coming up and helped me keep to schedule. ?If I needed to 
> leave room for a loud noise, I would mark my dubbing sheet to warn me at 
> least thirty seconds ahead of that point within the story that I needed 
> to hold the levels a bit lower than usual so that I could make an impact 
> when needed. However, I found that I had to compensate by boosting the 
> control room speakers by a corresponding amount so that Phillip didn't 
> notice. ?Once the loud bit had been mixed, there was then the problem of 
> getting back to normal monitoring levels, however scenes such as that 
> were generally the culmination of a build-up, so completing that scene 
> was the ideal time for a quick tea break and normal monitoring levels 
> could resume unnoticed.
> 
> Going back to "1917", ?for those who haven't yet seen it, I thoroughly 
> recommend it. ?My local cinema relegated it to the upstairs screen with 
> fabulously comfy seating for barely one hundred people. ?There were only 
> half a dozen other people there yesterday and they remained utterly 
> silent throughout the movie. ?I don't recall the last time I watched a 
> movie without being distracted at some point by others in the cinema. 
>  ?It was well worth a fiver of anybody's money. ?I'm sure than any of us 
> folk watching that movie would think countless times "How the hell did 
> they do that?". ?There are some YouTube 
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vUBT6_CLF4>?videos explaining much of 
> it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first and only 
> watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 



From ian.norman at armoor.co.uk  Tue Feb 11 06:04:23 2020
From: ian.norman at armoor.co.uk (ian.norman at armoor.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 12:04:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
In-Reply-To: <E6FAC33E-9964-4E76-B029-EF914D6278F9@me.com>
References: <E6FAC33E-9964-4E76-B029-EF914D6278F9@me.com>
Message-ID: <a8960ac1-e6bf-d506-553c-5380c0b3b8ae@armoor.plus.com>

Dear Alan,

What a great email, it has brighten up my morning.


Best regards

Ian Norman

Email: mailto:ian.norman at armoor.co.uk
Telephone: 01643 888181

On 11/02/2020 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing movies 
> I've ever seen. ?Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about the way that 
> it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the entire movie and of 
> course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it. ?However I was also 
> impressed by the sound track. ?I don't ever recall going to a film where 
> silence has been such a prominent feature, which is all the more 
> surprising because the story set in the middle of a battlefield and 
> conventionally, such a movie would have explosions and noises all the 
> time. ?Having the courage to pull the sound effects right back and only 
> use them when needed was a masterstroke because it draws you in to what 
> is happening to the main characters. ?Obviously by being quiet for 
> extended periods, it also offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the 
> audience with sudden loud noises.
> 
> It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to 
> exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I worked 
> on. ?In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded about it, 
> despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits as well as loud 
> bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to be uninteresting, 
> while clever use of light and shade makes for impressive pictures. ?For 
> me the breakthrough came when I did a Film Two drama ( shot on video ), 
> "The Russian Soldier", which few people now remember. ?The director was 
> Gavin Millar and he liked the idea of enhancing the narrative by 
> exploiting silence. ?The principle location was a farm in a remote part 
> of Dorset and the tense nature of the storyline meant that periods of 
> silence worked well, it drew your attention to subtle reactions by the 
> actors, it was as though you could almost hear the character's brains 
> working as events unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we 
> could easily hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask 
> everybody to leave them behind. ?There was scene where the dialogue went 
> from a barely audible whisper to the loudest possible angry shout just a 
> fraction of a second later. In order to handle the dynamic range, I fed 
> the microphone to two channels, one set at a level for whispers, with 
> the other set for the screaming. ?The whisper channel was rapidly faded 
> out on cue, while the screaming channel was left up throughout. A 
> second, more distant microphone was also left faded up, which provided a 
> touch of room ambience to the shouting, which made it sound even louder. 
> This was in the days before split track recordings were feasible on VT, 
> so it was important to get it right on the recording. ?I did take the 
> precaution of making a safety recording on a Nagra, but didn't need to 
> use it. ?The scene was very emotional and the actors didn't want to keep 
> rehearsing it or shooting it, so after a quick rehearsal, the red light 
> went on and every take was useable, retakes were only needed for 
> performance reasons.
> 
> I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat concerned 
> when Gavin started telling me about the music. ?He told me that he had 
> managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an Oscar for his score 
> on The Deer Hunter. ?I was a young TV sound supervisor and I initially 
> felt somewhat intimidated by the prospect of working with somebody of 
> his stature and was worried that he might be intending to deliver a 
> massive orchestral music score which would be at odds with the ideas I 
> had for the sound track, but when we started discussing it, we found 
> ourselves in complete agreement. ?I had experienced issues previously 
> where composers delivered music which largely obliterated important 
> dialogue and wanted to explain to him how I like the music and dialogue 
> to co-exist harmoniously, but needed to be diplomatic so as not to cause 
> offence. The comparison I made was with any typical Frank Sinatra 
> recording, especially those scored by Nelson Riddle. ?What you think you 
> hear is a massive orchestra giving all they've got with Frank singing 
> over the top if it. ?What actually happens is that the orchestra gives 
> everything they've got during the intro, but when Frank sings, the only 
> thing continuing behind him is the rhythm section strumming along, with 
> no strident trumpets. His voice is always clearly heard. ?At the end of 
> each phrase, the orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the brass 
> section. The music weaves around the voice, never competing, dropping 
> away just in time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved that comparison, 
> especially as it was described in a way which made perfect sense to a 
> musician, so much so that he went on to say that he proposed to pinch 
> that comparison and use it during his lectures on score writing.
> 
> Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue peak 
> to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely. ?Obviously you don't just 
> leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if the faders 
> had been left alone, it would have been perfectly usable. ?During one 
> particularly emotional scene, the music was barely peaking 1 and was 
> borderline inaudible at times, but that's exactly how he wanted it and 
> it worked beautifully.
> 
> As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production 
> meeting in Threshold House for another drama. ?During the small talk 
> prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that they had cast 
> an actor for a major role because she claimed she could play the piano, 
> which was only ?minor requirement for her role, but that morning they 
> discovered that the only tune she could play was the theme from Deer 
> Hunter and while that tune would have been OK within the story, he was 
> concerned by how much it might cost to get the rights to use music from 
> an American film. I pointed out that the composer was Stanley Myers and 
> that he was British, so it might be OK after all. ?He was still 
> doubtful, so I asked him if I could use his phone. ?I opened my Filofax, 
> phoned Stanley Myers and explained the problem. ?He said it should be 
> perfectly straightforward and not very expensive, asking for our people 
> to contact his people for it to be sorted. ?I told the producer that the 
> composer is happy for it to be used and it won't be expensive. ?The look 
> of the others in the room was priceless when they realised I had just 
> called a Hollywood composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their 
> problem. For some reason I completely forgot to let them know that there 
> wasn't another composer on the planet who I could have made such a call 
> with.
> 
> On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively. ?On a police 
> drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a patrol car were 
> bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle of the night when 
> there is an explosion in a nearby factory. ?Rather than leave absolute 
> silence, I decided to subtly add quiet sounds which you might not 
> normally be aware of. ?Library 'atmos' recordings were trawled through, 
> but without much success and even the much-used "distant dog" disk was 
> far too prominent, so I used a portable DAT recorder to record some 
> suitable stuff in the middle of the night such as a train passing three 
> or four miles distant or occasional cars passing quite a long way away. 
>  ?Distinct recordings of things with a lot of air between them and the 
> microphone sound quite different to a conventional recording played 
> quietly. ?It worked well in the mix because when you half hear such 
> things, you seem to listen that little bit harder to try and work out 
> what's there, which means that when the explosion comes, you jump out of 
> your seat. ?The gram op eagerly offered to jump up and down at the back 
> of the dubbing suite when the explosion happened to make it seem more 
> powerful for the director, but I declined his kind offer.
> 
> Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more challenging in 
> that respect because Phillip Saville was one of those directors who 
> always wanted everything turned up to 11 all the time. ?There were some 
> scenes where I knew we needed a large dynamic range because of explosive 
> effects or explosive dialogue, but if Phillip had had his way, there 
> would have been no headroom for the loud parts to rise into. ?I always 
> used to print dubbing sheets, which had a linear timeline, typically 
> showing two to three minutes per page, with each track laid out 
> vertically and plenty of room for my notes. ?It gave me a good oversight 
> of what was coming up and helped me keep to schedule. ?If I needed to 
> leave room for a loud noise, I would mark my dubbing sheet to warn me at 
> least thirty seconds ahead of that point within the story that I needed 
> to hold the levels a bit lower than usual so that I could make an impact 
> when needed. However, I found that I had to compensate by boosting the 
> control room speakers by a corresponding amount so that Phillip didn't 
> notice. ?Once the loud bit had been mixed, there was then the problem of 
> getting back to normal monitoring levels, however scenes such as that 
> were generally the culmination of a build-up, so completing that scene 
> was the ideal time for a quick tea break and normal monitoring levels 
> could resume unnoticed.
> 
> Going back to "1917", ?for those who haven't yet seen it, I thoroughly 
> recommend it. ?My local cinema relegated it to the upstairs screen with 
> fabulously comfy seating for barely one hundred people. ?There were only 
> half a dozen other people there yesterday and they remained utterly 
> silent throughout the movie. ?I don't recall the last time I watched a 
> movie without being distracted at some point by others in the cinema. 
>  ?It was well worth a fiver of anybody's money. ?I'm sure than any of us 
> folk watching that movie would think countless times "How the hell did 
> they do that?". ?There are some YouTube 
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vUBT6_CLF4>?videos explaining much of 
> it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first and only 
> watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 


From hughsheppard at btinternet.com  Tue Feb 11 09:00:25 2020
From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 15:00:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
In-Reply-To: <a8960ac1-e6bf-d506-553c-5380c0b3b8ae@armoor.plus.com>
References: <E6FAC33E-9964-4E76-B029-EF914D6278F9@me.com>
	<a8960ac1-e6bf-d506-553c-5380c0b3b8ae@armoor.plus.com>
Message-ID: <d4739ebd-3a29-39f7-7b41-5285a6c3f3ce@btinternet.com>

Hear Hear!? At least that's appropriate for a you-are-there experience 
of a sound manager's skills. Such memories warrant binding into a book 
of what Tech-Ops represented in its heyday. All too often, listening to 
TV sound nowadays manages to insult both the speaker and the audience at 
the same time.

Like Alan, Emily Maitlis succeeds in getting the adrenalin of 
broadcasting competence across to the reader in her book 'Airhead'. The 
title belies the content - and it's now in paperback.

Hugh

On 11-Feb-20 12:04 PM, ian.norman--- via Tech1 wrote:
> Dear Alan,
>
> What a great email, it has brighten up my morning.
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Ian Norman
>
> Email: mailto:ian.norman at armoor.co.uk
> Telephone: 01643 888181
>
> On 11/02/2020 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing 
>> movies I've ever seen. ?Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about 
>> the way that it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the 
>> entire movie and of course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it. 
>> ?However I was also impressed by the sound track. ?I don't ever 
>> recall going to a film where silence has been such a prominent 
>> feature, which is all the more surprising because the story set in 
>> the middle of a battlefield and conventionally, such a movie would 
>> have explosions and noises all the time. ?Having the courage to pull 
>> the sound effects right back and only use them when needed was a 
>> masterstroke because it draws you in to what is happening to the main 
>> characters. ?Obviously by being quiet for extended periods, it also 
>> offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the audience with sudden 
>> loud noises.
>>
>> It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to 
>> exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I 
>> worked on. ?In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded about 
>> it, despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits as well 
>> as loud bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to be 
>> uninteresting, while clever use of light and shade makes for 
>> impressive pictures. ?For me the breakthrough came when I did a Film 
>> Two drama ( shot on video ), "The Russian Soldier", which few people 
>> now remember. ?The director was Gavin Millar and he liked the idea of 
>> enhancing the narrative by exploiting silence. ?The principle 
>> location was a farm in a remote part of Dorset and the tense nature 
>> of the storyline meant that periods of silence worked well, it drew 
>> your attention to subtle reactions by the actors, it was as though 
>> you could almost hear the character's brains working as events 
>> unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we could easily 
>> hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask everybody to 
>> leave them behind. ?There was scene where the dialogue went from a 
>> barely audible whisper to the loudest possible angry shout just a 
>> fraction of a second later. In order to handle the dynamic range, I 
>> fed the microphone to two channels, one set at a level for whispers, 
>> with the other set for the screaming. ?The whisper channel was 
>> rapidly faded out on cue, while the screaming channel was left up 
>> throughout. A second, more distant microphone was also left faded up, 
>> which provided a touch of room ambience to the shouting, which made 
>> it sound even louder. This was in the days before split track 
>> recordings were feasible on VT, so it was important to get it right 
>> on the recording. ?I did take the precaution of making a safety 
>> recording on a Nagra, but didn't need to use it. ?The scene was very 
>> emotional and the actors didn't want to keep rehearsing it or 
>> shooting it, so after a quick rehearsal, the red light went on and 
>> every take was useable, retakes were only needed for performance 
>> reasons.
>>
>> I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat 
>> concerned when Gavin started telling me about the music. ?He told me 
>> that he had managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an 
>> Oscar for his score on The Deer Hunter. ?I was a young TV sound 
>> supervisor and I initially felt somewhat intimidated by the prospect 
>> of working with somebody of his stature and was worried that he might 
>> be intending to deliver a massive orchestral music score which would 
>> be at odds with the ideas I had for the sound track, but when we 
>> started discussing it, we found ourselves in complete agreement. ?I 
>> had experienced issues previously where composers delivered music 
>> which largely obliterated important dialogue and wanted to explain to 
>> him how I like the music and dialogue to co-exist harmoniously, but 
>> needed to be diplomatic so as not to cause offence. The comparison I 
>> made was with any typical Frank Sinatra recording, especially those 
>> scored by Nelson Riddle. ?What you think you hear is a massive 
>> orchestra giving all they've got with Frank singing over the top if 
>> it. ?What actually happens is that the orchestra gives everything 
>> they've got during the intro, but when Frank sings, the only thing 
>> continuing behind him is the rhythm section strumming along, with no 
>> strident trumpets. His voice is always clearly heard. ?At the end of 
>> each phrase, the orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the 
>> brass section. The music weaves around the voice, never competing, 
>> dropping away just in time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved that 
>> comparison, especially as it was described in a way which made 
>> perfect sense to a musician, so much so that he went on to say that 
>> he proposed to pinch that comparison and use it during his lectures 
>> on score writing.
>>
>> Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue 
>> peak to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely. ?Obviously you don't 
>> just leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if 
>> the faders had been left alone, it would have been perfectly usable. 
>> ?During one particularly emotional scene, the music was barely 
>> peaking 1 and was borderline inaudible at times, but that's exactly 
>> how he wanted it and it worked beautifully.
>>
>> As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production 
>> meeting in Threshold House for another drama. ?During the small talk 
>> prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that they had 
>> cast an actor for a major role because she claimed she could play the 
>> piano, which was only ?minor requirement for her role, but that 
>> morning they discovered that the only tune she could play was the 
>> theme from Deer Hunter and while that tune would have been OK within 
>> the story, he was concerned by how much it might cost to get the 
>> rights to use music from an American film. I pointed out that the 
>> composer was Stanley Myers and that he was British, so it might be OK 
>> after all. ?He was still doubtful, so I asked him if I could use his 
>> phone. ?I opened my Filofax, phoned Stanley Myers and explained the 
>> problem. ?He said it should be perfectly straightforward and not very 
>> expensive, asking for our people to contact his people for it to be 
>> sorted. ?I told the producer that the composer is happy for it to be 
>> used and it won't be expensive. ?The look of the others in the room 
>> was priceless when they realised I had just called a Hollywood 
>> composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their problem. For some 
>> reason I completely forgot to let them know that there wasn't another 
>> composer on the planet who I could have made such a call with.
>>
>> On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively. ?On a 
>> police drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a 
>> patrol car were bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle of 
>> the night when there is an explosion in a nearby factory. ?Rather 
>> than leave absolute silence, I decided to subtly add quiet sounds 
>> which you might not normally be aware of. ?Library 'atmos' recordings 
>> were trawled through, but without much success and even the much-used 
>> "distant dog" disk was far too prominent, so I used a portable DAT 
>> recorder to record some suitable stuff in the middle of the night 
>> such as a train passing three or four miles distant or occasional 
>> cars passing quite a long way away. ??Distinct recordings of things 
>> with a lot of air between them and the microphone sound quite 
>> different to a conventional recording played quietly. ?It worked well 
>> in the mix because when you half hear such things, you seem to listen 
>> that little bit harder to try and work out what's there, which means 
>> that when the explosion comes, you jump out of your seat. ?The gram 
>> op eagerly offered to jump up and down at the back of the dubbing 
>> suite when the explosion happened to make it seem more powerful for 
>> the director, but I declined his kind offer.
>>
>> Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more challenging 
>> in that respect because Phillip Saville was one of those directors 
>> who always wanted everything turned up to 11 all the time. ?There 
>> were some scenes where I knew we needed a large dynamic range because 
>> of explosive effects or explosive dialogue, but if Phillip had had 
>> his way, there would have been no headroom for the loud parts to rise 
>> into. ?I always used to print dubbing sheets, which had a linear 
>> timeline, typically showing two to three minutes per page, with each 
>> track laid out vertically and plenty of room for my notes. ?It gave 
>> me a good oversight of what was coming up and helped me keep to 
>> schedule. ?If I needed to leave room for a loud noise, I would mark 
>> my dubbing sheet to warn me at least thirty seconds ahead of that 
>> point within the story that I needed to hold the levels a bit lower 
>> than usual so that I could make an impact when needed. However, I 
>> found that I had to compensate by boosting the control room speakers 
>> by a corresponding amount so that Phillip didn't notice. ?Once the 
>> loud bit had been mixed, there was then the problem of getting back 
>> to normal monitoring levels, however scenes such as that were 
>> generally the culmination of a build-up, so completing that scene was 
>> the ideal time for a quick tea break and normal monitoring levels 
>> could resume unnoticed.
>>
>> Going back to "1917", ?for those who haven't yet seen it, I 
>> thoroughly recommend it. ?My local cinema relegated it to the 
>> upstairs screen with fabulously comfy seating for barely one hundred 
>> people. ?There were only half a dozen other people there yesterday 
>> and they remained utterly silent throughout the movie. ?I don't 
>> recall the last time I watched a movie without being distracted at 
>> some point by others in the cinema. ??It was well worth a fiver of 
>> anybody's money. ?I'm sure than any of us folk watching that movie 
>> would think countless times "How the hell did they do that?". ?There 
>> are some YouTube <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vUBT6_CLF4>?videos 
>> explaining much of it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie 
>> first and only watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.
>>
>> Alan Taylor
>>
>
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From relong at btinternet.com  Tue Feb 11 09:47:51 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger Long)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 15:47:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
In-Reply-To: <a8960ac1-e6bf-d506-553c-5380c0b3b8ae@armoor.plus.com>
References: <a8960ac1-e6bf-d506-553c-5380c0b3b8ae@armoor.plus.com>
Message-ID: <1CAA8677-19B2-48B4-80FE-D01BF45B3102@btinternet.com>

Saw the Oscars last night ,4 hrs of it!
Best bit ,the award for best sound for 1917.
I know Stuart the Production Sound Mixer from IPS events , he deserves it.
Roger Deakins worked for BBC Bristol film unit ,as a freelance ,in the 80s , I really admire his films.
Sams wife , Alison Balsom ,the classical trumpeter featured in a brief cut away.
She is the Music Director of Cheltenham Music Festival for which I record archive performances.
So 4 hrs of soppy tele was worth sitting through for once.
Roger

Sent from my iPhone

> On 11 Feb 2020, at 12:04, ian.norman--- via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Dear Alan,
> 
> What a great email, it has brighten up my morning.
> 
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Ian Norman
> 
> Email: mailto:ian.norman at armoor.co.uk
> Telephone: 01643 888181
> 
>> On 11/02/2020 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing movies I've ever seen.  Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about the way that it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the entire movie and of course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it.  However I was also impressed by the sound track.  I don't ever recall going to a film where silence has been such a prominent feature, which is all the more surprising because the story set in the middle of a battlefield and conventionally, such a movie would have explosions and noises all the time.  Having the courage to pull the sound effects right back and only use them when needed was a masterstroke because it draws you in to what is happening to the main characters.  Obviously by being quiet for extended periods, it also offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the audience with sudden loud noises.
>> It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I worked on.  In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded about it, despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits as well as loud bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to be uninteresting, while clever use of light and shade makes for impressive pictures.  For me the breakthrough came when I did a Film Two drama ( shot on video ), "The Russian Soldier", which few people now remember.  The director was Gavin Millar and he liked the idea of enhancing the narrative by exploiting silence.  The principle location was a farm in a remote part of Dorset and the tense nature of the storyline meant that periods of silence worked well, it drew your attention to subtle reactions by the actors, it was as though you could almost hear the character's brains working as events unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we could easily hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask everybody to leave them behind.  There was scene where the dialogue went from a barely audible whisper to the loudest possible angry shout just a fraction of a second later. In order to handle the dynamic range, I fed the microphone to two channels, one set at a level for whispers, with the other set for the screaming.  The whisper channel was rapidly faded out on cue, while the screaming channel was left up throughout. A second, more distant microphone was also left faded up, which provided a touch of room ambience to the shouting, which made it sound even louder. This was in the days before split track recordings were feasible on VT, so it was important to get it right on the recording.  I did take the precaution of making a safety recording on a Nagra, but didn't need to use it.  The scene was very emotional and the actors didn't want to keep rehearsing it or shooting it, so after a quick rehearsal, the red light went on and every take was useable, retakes were only needed for performance reasons.
>> I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat concerned when Gavin started telling me about the music.  He told me that he had managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an Oscar for his score on The Deer Hunter.  I was a young TV sound supervisor and I initially felt somewhat intimidated by the prospect of working with somebody of his stature and was worried that he might be intending to deliver a massive orchestral music score which would be at odds with the ideas I had for the sound track, but when we started discussing it, we found ourselves in complete agreement.  I had experienced issues previously where composers delivered music which largely obliterated important dialogue and wanted to explain to him how I like the music and dialogue to co-exist harmoniously, but needed to be diplomatic so as not to cause offence. The comparison I made was with any typical Frank Sinatra recording, especially those scored by Nelson Riddle.  What you think you hear is a massive orchestra giving all they've got with Frank singing over the top if it.  What actually happens is that the orchestra gives everything they've got during the intro, but when Frank sings, the only thing continuing behind him is the rhythm section strumming along, with no strident trumpets. His voice is always clearly heard.  At the end of each phrase, the orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the brass section. The music weaves around the voice, never competing, dropping away just in time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved that comparison, especially as it was described in a way which made perfect sense to a musician, so much so that he went on to say that he proposed to pinch that comparison and use it during his lectures on score writing.
>> Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue peak to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely.  Obviously you don't just leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if the faders had been left alone, it would have been perfectly usable.  During one particularly emotional scene, the music was barely peaking 1 and was borderline inaudible at times, but that's exactly how he wanted it and it worked beautifully.
>> As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production meeting in Threshold House for another drama.  During the small talk prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that they had cast an actor for a major role because she claimed she could play the piano, which was only  minor requirement for her role, but that morning they discovered that the only tune she could play was the theme from Deer Hunter and while that tune would have been OK within the story, he was concerned by how much it might cost to get the rights to use music from an American film. I pointed out that the composer was Stanley Myers and that he was British, so it might be OK after all.  He was still doubtful, so I asked him if I could use his phone.  I opened my Filofax, phoned Stanley Myers and explained the problem.  He said it should be perfectly straightforward and not very expensive, asking for our people to contact his people for it to be sorted.  I told the producer that the composer is happy for it to be used and it won't be expensive.  The look of the others in the room was priceless when they realised I had just called a Hollywood composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their problem. For some reason I completely forgot to let them know that there wasn't another composer on the planet who I could have made such a call with.
>> On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively.  On a police drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a patrol car were bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle of the night when there is an explosion in a nearby factory.  Rather than leave absolute silence, I decided to subtly add quiet sounds which you might not normally be aware of.  Library 'atmos' recordings were trawled through, but without much success and even the much-used "distant dog" disk was far too prominent, so I used a portable DAT recorder to record some suitable stuff in the middle of the night such as a train passing three or four miles distant or occasional cars passing quite a long way away.   Distinct recordings of things with a lot of air between them and the microphone sound quite different to a conventional recording played quietly.  It worked well in the mix because when you half hear such things, you seem to listen that little bit harder to try and work out what's there, which means that when the explosion comes, you jump out of your seat.  The gram op eagerly offered to jump up and down at the back of the dubbing suite when the explosion happened to make it seem more powerful for the director, but I declined his kind offer.
>> Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more challenging in that respect because Phillip Saville was one of those directors who always wanted everything turned up to 11 all the time.  There were some scenes where I knew we needed a large dynamic range because of explosive effects or explosive dialogue, but if Phillip had had his way, there would have been no headroom for the loud parts to rise into.  I always used to print dubbing sheets, which had a linear timeline, typically showing two to three minutes per page, with each track laid out vertically and plenty of room for my notes.  It gave me a good oversight of what was coming up and helped me keep to schedule.  If I needed to leave room for a loud noise, I would mark my dubbing sheet to warn me at least thirty seconds ahead of that point within the story that I needed to hold the levels a bit lower than usual so that I could make an impact when needed. However, I found that I had to compensate by boosting the control room speakers by a corresponding amount so that Phillip didn't notice.  Once the loud bit had been mixed, there was then the problem of getting back to normal monitoring levels, however scenes such as that were generally the culmination of a build-up, so completing that scene was the ideal time for a quick tea break and normal monitoring levels could resume unnoticed.
>> Going back to "1917",  for those who haven't yet seen it, I thoroughly recommend it.  My local cinema relegated it to the upstairs screen with fabulously comfy seating for barely one hundred people.  There were only half a dozen other people there yesterday and they remained utterly silent throughout the movie.  I don't recall the last time I watched a movie without being distracted at some point by others in the cinema.   It was well worth a fiver of anybody's money.  I'm sure than any of us folk watching that movie would think countless times "How the hell did they do that?".  There are some YouTube <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vUBT6_CLF4> videos explaining much of it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first and only watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.
>> Alan Taylor
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 10:11:49 2020
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 16:11:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
Message-ID: <D99A3BEC-CC82-45BE-A322-928FB0DC5937@gmail.com>

?Well done Alan for the detailed and interesting message though some parts were foreign-speak to me as a cameraman.
My wife and I went to see the film about three weeks ago and we were really impressed. The film runs for about 2hrs and the reputed one-continuous shot thing puzzled me as to how it could be achieved. I wondered what happened if they got nearly to the end and something went wrong; would they have to start again from the top (groan, groan, imagine!!). I asked Ian Head, a veteran cameraman about this and he said all that meant was that it would have been done in a series of single shots, each with no cut-aways and involved a change of mounting, eg for high-angle shots. It worked well and I was thankful that none of them were the dreaded wobbly-cam style.
We saw it in IMAX at Jarman Park, Hemel Hempstead and had a choice of that, the later Super-Screen or good-old 2D. We sat about half way up the auditorium and wished we?d sat further back as the fast action shots from side to side sometimes had our heads buzzing.
What you said about the contrasting sound levels was perfectly true and the occasional loud bursts, like when the plane crashed had the shocking effect intended, adding to the reality of the wartime experience which is what it was all about. I had taken earplugs with me in case it was all loud as is so often the case nowadays and was glad not to need them.
I recommend anyone who hasn?t seen the film to go and see it in Superscreen or IMAX if you can, but don?t sit too near the screen unless you really want the dizzying effect,
Geoff

>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ?Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing movies I've ever seen.  Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about the way that it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the entire movie and of course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it.  However I was also impressed by the sound track.  I don't ever recall going to a film where silence has been such a prominent feature, which is all the more surprising because the story set in the middle of a battlefield and conventionally, such a movie would have explosions and noises all the time.  Having the courage to pull the sound effects right back and only use them when needed was a masterstroke because it draws you in to what is happening to the main characters.  Obviously by being quiet for extended periods, it also offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the audience with sudden loud noises. 
> 
> It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I worked on.  In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded about it, despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits as well as loud bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to be uninteresting, while clever use of light and shade makes for impressive pictures.  For me the breakthrough came when I did a Film Two drama ( shot on video ), "The Russian Soldier", which few people now remember.  The director was Gavin Millar and he liked the idea of enhancing the narrative by exploiting silence.  The principle location was a farm in a remote part of Dorset and the tense nature of the storyline meant that periods of silence worked well, it drew your attention to subtle reactions by the actors, it was as though you could almost hear the character's brains working as events unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we could easily hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask everybody to leave them behind.  There was scene where the dialogue went from a barely audible whisper to the loudest possible angry shout just a fraction of a second later. In order to handle the dynamic range, I fed the microphone to two channels, one set at a level for whispers, with the other set for the screaming.  The whisper channel was rapidly faded out on cue, while the screaming channel was left up throughout. A second, more distant microphone was also left faded up, which provided a touch of room ambience to the shouting, which made it sound even louder. This was in the days before split track recordings were feasible on VT, so it was important to get it right on the recording.  I did take the precaution of making a safety recording on a Nagra, but didn't need to use it.  The scene was very emotional and the actors didn't want to keep rehearsing it or shooting it, so after a quick rehearsal, the red light went on and every take was useable, retakes were only needed for performance reasons.
> 
> I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat concerned when Gavin started telling me about the music.  He told me that he had managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an Oscar for his score on The Deer Hunter.  I was a young TV sound supervisor and I initially felt somewhat intimidated by the prospect of working with somebody of his stature and was worried that he might be intending to deliver a massive orchestral music score which would be at odds with the ideas I had for the sound track, but when we started discussing it, we found ourselves in complete agreement.  I had experienced issues previously where composers delivered music which largely obliterated important dialogue and wanted to explain to him how I like the music and dialogue to co-exist harmoniously, but needed to be diplomatic so as not to cause offence. The comparison I made was with any typical Frank Sinatra recording, especially those scored by Nelson Riddle.  What you think you hear is a massive orchestra giving all they've got with Frank singing over the top if it.  What actually happens is that the orchestra gives everything they've got during the intro, but when Frank sings, the only thing continuing behind him is the rhythm section strumming along, with no strident trumpets. His voice is always clearly heard.  At the end of each phrase, the orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the brass section. The music weaves around the voice, never competing, dropping away just in time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved that comparison, especially as it was described in a way which made perfect sense to a musician, so much so that he went on to say that he proposed to pinch that comparison and use it during his lectures on score writing.  
> 
> Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue peak to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely.  Obviously you don't just leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if the faders had been left alone, it would have been perfectly usable.  During one particularly emotional scene, the music was barely peaking 1 and was borderline inaudible at times, but that's exactly how he wanted it and it worked beautifully.
> 
> As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production meeting in Threshold House for another drama.  During the small talk prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that they had cast an actor for a major role because she claimed she could play the piano, which was only  minor requirement for her role, but that morning they discovered that the only tune she could play was the theme from Deer Hunter and while that tune would have been OK within the story, he was concerned by how much it might cost to get the rights to use music from an American film. I pointed out that the composer was Stanley Myers and that he was British, so it might be OK after all.  He was still doubtful, so I asked him if I could use his phone.  I opened my Filofax, phoned Stanley Myers and explained the problem.  He said it should be perfectly straightforward and not very expensive, asking for our people to contact his people for it to be sorted.  I told the producer that the composer is happy for it to be used and it won't be expensive.  The look of the others in the room was priceless when they realised I had just called a Hollywood composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their problem. For some reason I completely forgot to let them know that there wasn't another composer on the planet who I could have made such a call with.
> 
> On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively.  On a police drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a patrol car were bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle of the night when there is an explosion in a nearby factory.  Rather than leave absolute silence, I decided to subtly add quiet sounds which you might not normally be aware of.  Library 'atmos' recordings were trawled through, but without much success and even the much-used "distant dog" disk was far too prominent, so I used a portable DAT recorder to record some suitable stuff in the middle of the night such as a train passing three or four miles distant or occasional cars passing quite a long way away.  Distinct recordings of things with a lot of air between them and the microphone sound quite different to a conventional recording played quietly.  It worked well in the mix because when you half hear such things, you seem to listen that little bit harder to try and work out what's there, which means that when the explosion comes, you jump out of your seat.  The gram op eagerly offered to jump up and down at the back of the dubbing suite when the explosion happened to make it seem more powerful for the director, but I declined his kind offer.
> 
> Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more challenging in that respect because Phillip Saville was one of those directors who always wanted everything turned up to 11 all the time.  There were some scenes where I knew we needed a large dynamic range because of explosive effects or explosive dialogue, but if Phillip had had his way, there would have been no headroom for the loud parts to rise into.  I always used to print dubbing sheets, which had a linear timeline, typically showing two to three minutes per page, with each track laid out vertically and plenty of room for my notes.  It gave me a good oversight of what was coming up and helped me keep to schedule.  If I needed to leave room for a loud noise, I would mark my dubbing sheet to warn me at least thirty seconds ahead of that point within the story that I needed to hold the levels a bit lower than usual so that I could make an impact when needed. However, I found that I had to compensate by boosting the control room speakers by a corresponding amount so that Phillip didn't notice.  Once the loud bit had been mixed, there was then the problem of getting back to normal monitoring levels, however scenes such as that were generally the culmination of a build-up, so completing that scene was the ideal time for a quick tea break and normal monitoring levels could resume unnoticed.
> 
> Going back to "1917",  for those who haven't yet seen it, I thoroughly recommend it.  My local cinema relegated it to the upstairs screen with fabulously comfy seating for barely one hundred people.  There were only half a dozen other people there yesterday and they remained utterly silent throughout the movie.  I don't recall the last time I watched a movie without being distracted at some point by others in the cinema.  It was well worth a fiver of anybody's money.  I'm sure than any of us folk watching that movie would think countless times "How the hell did they do that?".  There are some YouTube videos explaining much of it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first and only watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From grahamthecameraman at icloud.com  Tue Feb 11 10:46:58 2020
From: grahamthecameraman at icloud.com (Graham Maunder)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 16:46:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
In-Reply-To: <D99A3BEC-CC82-45BE-A322-928FB0DC5937@gmail.com>
References: <D99A3BEC-CC82-45BE-A322-928FB0DC5937@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7B42403B-4C21-451D-86CE-83682A245439@icloud.com>

Both Sam Mendes and Roger Deakins tried hard not to talk too much about the ?one-shot? element of the film as they didn?t want people going to see it to be constantly looking for the ?invisible? cuts.
The longest shot in the whole film is actually only just 9 minutes and perhaps the real skill involved was the planning of the shots followed by the execution of the shot combined with the editing to make it look like there wasn?t an edit!!
I know that many times during the film Sam Mendes asked himself why he was putting himself (& everyone else!) through such a nightmare!!

Great film although strangely I thought it was better non IMAX?..

However, apart from the very ending which I thought was a pretty poor cop-out, Parasite was a very worthy winner of the Best Film Oscar and was, IMHO, a better film.

Graham Maunder

> On 11 Feb 2020, at 16:11, Geoffrey Hawkes via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Well done Alan for the detailed and interesting message though some parts were foreign-speak to me as a cameraman.
> My wife and I went to see the film about three weeks ago and we were really impressed. The film runs for about 2hrs and the reputed one-continuous shot thing puzzled me as to how it could be achieved. I wondered what happened if they got nearly to the end and something went wrong; would they have to start again from the top (groan, groan, imagine!!). I asked Ian Head, a veteran cameraman about this and he said all that meant was that it would have been done in a series of single shots, each with no cut-aways and involved a change of mounting, eg for high-angle shots. It worked well and I was thankful that none of them were the dreaded wobbly-cam style.
> We saw it in IMAX at Jarman Park, Hemel Hempstead and had a choice of that, the later Super-Screen or good-old 2D. We sat about half way up the auditorium and wished we?d sat further back as the fast action shots from side to side sometimes had our heads buzzing.
> What you said about the contrasting sound levels was perfectly true and the occasional loud bursts, like when the plane crashed had the shocking effect intended, adding to the reality of the wartime experience which is what it was all about. I had taken earplugs with me in case it was all loud as is so often the case nowadays and was glad not to need them.
> I recommend anyone who hasn?t seen the film to go and see it in Superscreen or IMAX if you can, but don?t sit too near the screen unless you really want the dizzying effect,
> Geoff
> 
>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing movies I've ever seen.  Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about the way that it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the entire movie and of course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it.  However I was also impressed by the sound track.  I don't ever recall going to a film where silence has been such a prominent feature, which is all the more surprising because the story set in the middle of a battlefield and conventionally, such a movie would have explosions and noises all the time.  Having the courage to pull the sound effects right back and only use them when needed was a masterstroke because it draws you in to what is happening to the main characters.  Obviously by being quiet for extended periods, it also offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the audience with sudden loud noises. 
>> 
>> It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I worked on.  In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded about it, despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits as well as loud bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to be uninteresting, while clever use of light and shade makes for impressive pictures.  For me the breakthrough came when I did a Film Two drama ( shot on video ), "The Russian Soldier", which few people now remember.  The director was Gavin Millar and he liked the idea of enhancing the narrative by exploiting silence.  The principle location was a farm in a remote part of Dorset and the tense nature of the storyline meant that periods of silence worked well, it drew your attention to subtle reactions by the actors, it was as though you could almost hear the character's brains working as events unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we could easily hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask everybody to leave them behind.  There was scene where the dialogue went from a barely audible whisper to the loudest possible angry shout just a fraction of a second later. In order to handle the dynamic range, I fed the microphone to two channels, one set at a level for whispers, with the other set for the screaming.  The whisper channel was rapidly faded out on cue, while the screaming channel was left up throughout. A second, more distant microphone was also left faded up, which provided a touch of room ambience to the shouting, which made it sound even louder. This was in the days before split track recordings were feasible on VT, so it was important to get it right on the recording.  I did take the precaution of making a safety recording on a Nagra, but didn't need to use it.  The scene was very emotional and the actors didn't want to keep rehearsing it or shooting it, so after a quick rehearsal, the red light went on and every take was useable, retakes were only needed for performance reasons.
>> 
>> I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat concerned when Gavin started telling me about the music.  He told me that he had managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an Oscar for his score on The Deer Hunter.  I was a young TV sound supervisor and I initially felt somewhat intimidated by the prospect of working with somebody of his stature and was worried that he might be intending to deliver a massive orchestral music score which would be at odds with the ideas I had for the sound track, but when we started discussing it, we found ourselves in complete agreement.  I had experienced issues previously where composers delivered music which largely obliterated important dialogue and wanted to explain to him how I like the music and dialogue to co-exist harmoniously, but needed to be diplomatic so as not to cause offence. The comparison I made was with any typical Frank Sinatra recording, especially those scored by Nelson Riddle.  What you think you hear is a massive orchestra giving all they've got with Frank singing over the top if it.  What actually happens is that the orchestra gives everything they've got during the intro, but when Frank sings, the only thing continuing behind him is the rhythm section strumming along, with no strident trumpets. His voice is always clearly heard.  At the end of each phrase, the orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the brass section. The music weaves around the voice, never competing, dropping away just in time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved that comparison, especially as it was described in a way which made perfect sense to a musician, so much so that he went on to say that he proposed to pinch that comparison and use it during his lectures on score writing.  
>> 
>> Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue peak to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely.  Obviously you don't just leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if the faders had been left alone, it would have been perfectly usable.  During one particularly emotional scene, the music was barely peaking 1 and was borderline inaudible at times, but that's exactly how he wanted it and it worked beautifully.
>> 
>> As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production meeting in Threshold House for another drama.  During the small talk prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that they had cast an actor for a major role because she claimed she could play the piano, which was only  minor requirement for her role, but that morning they discovered that the only tune she could play was the theme from Deer Hunter and while that tune would have been OK within the story, he was concerned by how much it might cost to get the rights to use music from an American film. I pointed out that the composer was Stanley Myers and that he was British, so it might be OK after all.  He was still doubtful, so I asked him if I could use his phone.  I opened my Filofax, phoned Stanley Myers and explained the problem.  He said it should be perfectly straightforward and not very expensive, asking for our people to contact his people for it to be sorted.  I told the producer that the composer is happy for it to be used and it won't be expensive.  The look of the others in the room was priceless when they realised I had just called a Hollywood composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their problem. For some reason I completely forgot to let them know that there wasn't another composer on the planet who I could have made such a call with.
>> 
>> On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively.  On a police drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a patrol car were bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle of the night when there is an explosion in a nearby factory.  Rather than leave absolute silence, I decided to subtly add quiet sounds which you might not normally be aware of.  Library 'atmos' recordings were trawled through, but without much success and even the much-used "distant dog" disk was far too prominent, so I used a portable DAT recorder to record some suitable stuff in the middle of the night such as a train passing three or four miles distant or occasional cars passing quite a long way away.  Distinct recordings of things with a lot of air between them and the microphone sound quite different to a conventional recording played quietly.  It worked well in the mix because when you half hear such things, you seem to listen that little bit harder to try and work out what's there, which means that when the explosion comes, you jump out of your seat.  The gram op eagerly offered to jump up and down at the back of the dubbing suite when the explosion happened to make it seem more powerful for the director, but I declined his kind offer.
>> 
>> Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more challenging in that respect because Phillip Saville was one of those directors who always wanted everything turned up to 11 all the time.  There were some scenes where I knew we needed a large dynamic range because of explosive effects or explosive dialogue, but if Phillip had had his way, there would have been no headroom for the loud parts to rise into.  I always used to print dubbing sheets, which had a linear timeline, typically showing two to three minutes per page, with each track laid out vertically and plenty of room for my notes.  It gave me a good oversight of what was coming up and helped me keep to schedule.  If I needed to leave room for a loud noise, I would mark my dubbing sheet to warn me at least thirty seconds ahead of that point within the story that I needed to hold the levels a bit lower than usual so that I could make an impact when needed. However, I found that I had to compensate by boosting the control room speakers by a corresponding amount so that Phillip didn't notice.  Once the loud bit had been mixed, there was then the problem of getting back to normal monitoring levels, however scenes such as that were generally the culmination of a build-up, so completing that scene was the ideal time for a quick tea break and normal monitoring levels could resume unnoticed.
>> 
>> Going back to "1917",  for those who haven't yet seen it, I thoroughly recommend it.  My local cinema relegated it to the upstairs screen with fabulously comfy seating for barely one hundred people.  There were only half a dozen other people there yesterday and they remained utterly silent throughout the movie.  I don't recall the last time I watched a movie without being distracted at some point by others in the cinema.  It was well worth a fiver of anybody's money.  I'm sure than any of us folk watching that movie would think countless times "How the hell did they do that?".  There are some YouTube <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vUBT6_CLF4> videos explaining much of it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first and only watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Feb 11 11:08:44 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:08:44 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
In-Reply-To: <D99A3BEC-CC82-45BE-A322-928FB0DC5937@gmail.com>
References: <D99A3BEC-CC82-45BE-A322-928FB0DC5937@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6731763C-BE48-4D3F-BFF1-86571EFE4754@me.com>

There are several YouTube videos explaining how they shot the movie.  I linked to one of the better ones in my original posting and I'm sure they would be fascinating to many on here.  It was mentioned that some takes were as long as six minutes, so there would have been many edits in the movie, but of course it was cleverly done so that they were virtually unnoticeable.

One thing that you could see in the videos was how the camera was sometimes mounted on motorised gimbals and slung below a one metre length of scaffold tubing.  They show sequences where the camera rig starts off mounted on a huge motorised telescopic camera crane ( Technocrane? ) and when it is swung down to near ground level, two operators grab either end of the pole and smoothly lift it off the mounting hooks so that they can continue the sequence running along with the rig.  There are a lot of sequences which appear to use SteadyCam with a short jib arm to allow height changes while moving.  There is also a sequence in the ruined village at night where the camera operator runs along and steps ono a motorised platform to continue the shot travelling faster that would otherwise be possible.

Incidentally, some people complained that the movie was relentless and always on the move, but Sam Mendes explains that war is like that.  You can't go back, you have to keep moving onwards and that's exactly the effect he was trying to achieve.

When the main character swam along the river and climbed out, I wondered how long his clothes would remain wet for, but chuckled when the next scene showed him running through a forest in very windy conditions.  I assumed that they must have decided to use big wind machines to create a drying wind to explain how his uniform might dry so rapidly.

There are also some interesting explanations about how the art department created the trenches and the sheer scale of those sets.  One of the extras also tells about a single tree which was standing near the action for the final big battle scene.  The HoneyWagon was quite some distance from the location and at least a hundred extras urinated against that tree as a quicker option than trudging back to the Honey Wagon.  To their horror the final scene is of our hero sitting down against that tree.  They had no idea that the tree was going to be used for such a prominent shot.

Alan Taylor




On 11 Feb 2020, at 11 Feb . 16:11, Geoffrey Hawkes <geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com> wrote:

> ?Well done Alan for the detailed and interesting message though some parts were foreign-speak to me as a cameraman.
> My wife and I went to see the film about three weeks ago and we were really impressed. The film runs for about 2hrs and the reputed one-continuous shot thing puzzled me as to how it could be achieved. I wondered what happened if they got nearly to the end and something went wrong; would they have to start again from the top (groan, groan, imagine!!). I asked Ian Head, a veteran cameraman about this and he said all that meant was that it would have been done in a series of single shots, each with no cut-aways and involved a change of mounting, eg for high-angle shots. It worked well and I was thankful that none of them were the dreaded wobbly-cam style.
> We saw it in IMAX at Jarman Park, Hemel Hempstead and had a choice of that, the later Super-Screen or good-old 2D. We sat about half way up the auditorium and wished we?d sat further back as the fast action shots from side to side sometimes had our heads buzzing.
> What you said about the contrasting sound levels was perfectly true and the occasional loud bursts, like when the plane crashed had the shocking effect intended, adding to the reality of the wartime experience which is what it was all about. I had taken earplugs with me in case it was all loud as is so often the case nowadays and was glad not to need them.
> I recommend anyone who hasn?t seen the film to go and see it in Superscreen or IMAX if you can, but don?t sit too near the screen unless you really want the dizzying effect,
> Geoff
> 
>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing movies I've ever seen.  Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about the way that it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the entire movie and of course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it.  However I was also impressed by the sound track.  I don't ever recall going to a film where silence has been such a prominent feature, which is all the more surprising because the story set in the middle of a battlefield and conventionally, such a movie would have explosions and noises all the time.  Having the courage to pull the sound effects right back and only use them when needed was a masterstroke because it draws you in to what is happening to the main characters.  Obviously by being quiet for extended periods, it also offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the audience with sudden loud noises. 
>> 
>> It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I worked on.  In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded about it, despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits as well as loud bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to be uninteresting, while clever use of light and shade makes for impressive pictures.  For me the breakthrough came when I did a Film Two drama ( shot on video ), "The Russian Soldier", which few people now remember.  The director was Gavin Millar and he liked the idea of enhancing the narrative by exploiting silence.  The principle location was a farm in a remote part of Dorset and the tense nature of the storyline meant that periods of silence worked well, it drew your attention to subtle reactions by the actors, it was as though you could almost hear the character's brains working as events unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we could easily hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask everybody to leave them behind.  There was scene where the dialogue went from a barely audible whisper to the loudest possible angry shout just a fraction of a second later. In order to handle the dynamic range, I fed the microphone to two channels, one set at a level for whispers, with the other set for the screaming.  The whisper channel was rapidly faded out on cue, while the screaming channel was left up throughout. A second, more distant microphone was also left faded up, which provided a touch of room ambience to the shouting, which made it sound even louder. This was in the days before split track recordings were feasible on VT, so it was important to get it right on the recording.  I did take the precaution of making a safety recording on a Nagra, but didn't need to use it.  The scene was very emotional and the actors didn't want to keep rehearsing it or shooting it, so after a quick rehearsal, the red light went on and every take was useable, retakes were only needed for performance reasons.
>> 
>> I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat concerned when Gavin started telling me about the music.  He told me that he had managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an Oscar for his score on The Deer Hunter.  I was a young TV sound supervisor and I initially felt somewhat intimidated by the prospect of working with somebody of his stature and was worried that he might be intending to deliver a massive orchestral music score which would be at odds with the ideas I had for the sound track, but when we started discussing it, we found ourselves in complete agreement.  I had experienced issues previously where composers delivered music which largely obliterated important dialogue and wanted to explain to him how I like the music and dialogue to co-exist harmoniously, but needed to be diplomatic so as not to cause offence. The comparison I made was with any typical Frank Sinatra recording, especially those scored by Nelson Riddle.  What you think you hear is a massive orchestra giving all they've got with Frank singing over the top if it.  What actually happens is that the orchestra gives everything they've got during the intro, but when Frank sings, the only thing continuing behind him is the rhythm section strumming along, with no strident trumpets. His voice is always clearly heard.  At the end of each phrase, the orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the brass section. The music weaves around the voice, never competing, dropping away just in time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved that comparison, especially as it was described in a way which made perfect sense to a musician, so much so that he went on to say that he proposed to pinch that comparison and use it during his lectures on score writing.  
>> 
>> Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue peak to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely.  Obviously you don't just leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if the faders had been left alone, it would have been perfectly usable.  During one particularly emotional scene, the music was barely peaking 1 and was borderline inaudible at times, but that's exactly how he wanted it and it worked beautifully.
>> 
>> As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production meeting in Threshold House for another drama.  During the small talk prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that they had cast an actor for a major role because she claimed she could play the piano, which was only  minor requirement for her role, but that morning they discovered that the only tune she could play was the theme from Deer Hunter and while that tune would have been OK within the story, he was concerned by how much it might cost to get the rights to use music from an American film. I pointed out that the composer was Stanley Myers and that he was British, so it might be OK after all.  He was still doubtful, so I asked him if I could use his phone.  I opened my Filofax, phoned Stanley Myers and explained the problem.  He said it should be perfectly straightforward and not very expensive, asking for our people to contact his people for it to be sorted.  I told the producer that the composer is happy for it to be used and it won't be expensive.  The look of the others in the room was priceless when they realised I had just called a Hollywood composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their problem. For some reason I completely forgot to let them know that there wasn't another composer on the planet who I could have made such a call with.
>> 
>> On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively.  On a police drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a patrol car were bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle of the night when there is an explosion in a nearby factory.  Rather than leave absolute silence, I decided to subtly add quiet sounds which you might not normally be aware of.  Library 'atmos' recordings were trawled through, but without much success and even the much-used "distant dog" disk was far too prominent, so I used a portable DAT recorder to record some suitable stuff in the middle of the night such as a train passing three or four miles distant or occasional cars passing quite a long way away.  Distinct recordings of things with a lot of air between them and the microphone sound quite different to a conventional recording played quietly.  It worked well in the mix because when you half hear such things, you seem to listen that little bit harder to try and work out what's there, which means that when the explosion comes, you jump out of your seat.  The gram op eagerly offered to jump up and down at the back of the dubbing suite when the explosion happened to make it seem more powerful for the director, but I declined his kind offer.
>> 
>> Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more challenging in that respect because Phillip Saville was one of those directors who always wanted everything turned up to 11 all the time.  There were some scenes where I knew we needed a large dynamic range because of explosive effects or explosive dialogue, but if Phillip had had his way, there would have been no headroom for the loud parts to rise into.  I always used to print dubbing sheets, which had a linear timeline, typically showing two to three minutes per page, with each track laid out vertically and plenty of room for my notes.  It gave me a good oversight of what was coming up and helped me keep to schedule.  If I needed to leave room for a loud noise, I would mark my dubbing sheet to warn me at least thirty seconds ahead of that point within the story that I needed to hold the levels a bit lower than usual so that I could make an impact when needed. However, I found that I had to compensate by boosting the control room speakers by a corresponding amount so that Phillip didn't notice.  Once the loud bit had been mixed, there was then the problem of getting back to normal monitoring levels, however scenes such as that were generally the culmination of a build-up, so completing that scene was the ideal time for a quick tea break and normal monitoring levels could resume unnoticed.
>> 
>> Going back to "1917",  for those who haven't yet seen it, I thoroughly recommend it.  My local cinema relegated it to the upstairs screen with fabulously comfy seating for barely one hundred people.  There were only half a dozen other people there yesterday and they remained utterly silent throughout the movie.  I don't recall the last time I watched a movie without being distracted at some point by others in the cinema.  It was well worth a fiver of anybody's money.  I'm sure than any of us folk watching that movie would think countless times "How the hell did they do that?".  There are some YouTube videos explaining much of it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first and only watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Feb 11 14:39:53 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 20:39:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
In-Reply-To: <E6FAC33E-9964-4E76-B029-EF914D6278F9@me.com>
References: <E6FAC33E-9964-4E76-B029-EF914D6278F9@me.com>
Message-ID: <0ad010c9-dcde-38fe-9f0d-69f8b987b0f7@btinternet.com>

Lovely e-mail, Alan, but where on earth can you see a film in comfy 
seats for ?5? Our nearest multi-screen complex in Kingston charges at 
least ?15 for a reclining duo-seat with footrest and food tray so you 
can have a nice glass of red stuff and even a slice of pizza! Why people 
have to eat their meals in a cinema is beyond me!? The last 007 film I 
went to see was totally ruined by the moron in the next seat dipping 
into his bucket of popcorn every few seconds at regular intervals 
throughout the whole film, in my peripheral vision. When we were in New 
Zealand, we went to a lovely cinema. A helicopter pilot had spent 10 
years filming the Southern Alps and built a cinema to show his movie. 
You could have afternoon tea and watch the glory of the landscape in 
comfort, that was acceptable eating in a cinema, popcorn etc. isn't! End 
of rant! Cheers, Dave

,On 11/02/2020 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing 
> movies I've ever seen. ?Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about the 
> way that it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the entire 
> movie and of course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it. ?However I 
> was also impressed by the sound track. ?I don't ever recall going to a 
> film where silence has been such a prominent feature, which is all the 
> more surprising because the story set in the middle of a battlefield 
> and conventionally, such a movie would have explosions and noises all 
> the time. ?Having the courage to pull the sound effects right back and 
> only use them when needed was a masterstroke because it draws you in 
> to what is happening to the main characters. ?Obviously by being quiet 
> for extended periods, it also offers the sound mixer more scope to 
> shock the audience with sudden loud noises.
>
> It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to 
> exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I 
> worked on. ?In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded about 
> it, despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits as well as 
> loud bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to be 
> uninteresting, while clever use of light and shade makes for 
> impressive pictures. ?For me the breakthrough came when I did a Film 
> Two drama ( shot on video ), "The Russian Soldier", which few people 
> now remember. ?The director was Gavin Millar and he liked the idea of 
> enhancing the narrative by exploiting silence. ?The principle location 
> was a farm in a remote part of Dorset and the tense nature of the 
> storyline meant that periods of silence worked well, it drew your 
> attention to subtle reactions by the actors, it was as though you 
> could almost hear the character's brains working as events unfolded. 
> To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we could easily hear the 
> crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask everybody to leave them 
> behind. ?There was scene where the dialogue went from a barely audible 
> whisper to the loudest possible angry shout just a fraction of a 
> second later. In order to handle the dynamic range, I fed the 
> microphone to two channels, one set at a level for whispers, with the 
> other set for the screaming. ?The whisper channel was rapidly faded 
> out on cue, while the screaming channel was left up throughout. A 
> second, more distant microphone was also left faded up, which provided 
> a touch of room ambience to the shouting, which made it sound even 
> louder. This was in the days before split track recordings were 
> feasible on VT, so it was important to get it right on the recording. 
> ?I did take the precaution of making a safety recording on a Nagra, 
> but didn't need to use it. ?The scene was very emotional and the 
> actors didn't want to keep rehearsing it or shooting it, so after a 
> quick rehearsal, the red light went on and every take was useable, 
> retakes were only needed for performance reasons.
>
> I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat 
> concerned when Gavin started telling me about the music. ?He told me 
> that he had managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an Oscar 
> for his score on The Deer Hunter. ?I was a young TV sound supervisor 
> and I initially felt somewhat intimidated by the prospect of working 
> with somebody of his stature and was worried that he might be 
> intending to deliver a massive orchestral music score which would be 
> at odds with the ideas I had for the sound track, but when we started 
> discussing it, we found ourselves in complete agreement. ?I had 
> experienced issues previously where composers delivered music which 
> largely obliterated important dialogue and wanted to explain to him 
> how I like the music and dialogue to co-exist harmoniously, but needed 
> to be diplomatic so as not to cause offence. The comparison I made was 
> with any typical Frank Sinatra recording, especially those scored by 
> Nelson Riddle. ?What you think you hear is a massive orchestra giving 
> all they've got with Frank singing over the top if it. ?What actually 
> happens is that the orchestra gives everything they've got during the 
> intro, but when Frank sings, the only thing continuing behind him is 
> the rhythm section strumming along, with no strident trumpets. His 
> voice is always clearly heard. ?At the end of each phrase, the 
> orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the brass section. The 
> music weaves around the voice, never competing, dropping away just in 
> time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved that comparison, especially 
> as it was described in a way which made perfect sense to a musician, 
> so much so that he went on to say that he proposed to pinch that 
> comparison and use it during his lectures on score writing.
>
> Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue 
> peak to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely. ?Obviously you don't 
> just leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if the 
> faders had been left alone, it would have been perfectly usable. 
> ?During one particularly emotional scene, the music was barely peaking 
> 1 and was borderline inaudible at times, but that's exactly how he 
> wanted it and it worked beautifully.
>
> As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production 
> meeting in Threshold House for another drama. ?During the small talk 
> prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that they had 
> cast an actor for a major role because she claimed she could play the 
> piano, which was only ?minor requirement for her role, but that 
> morning they discovered that the only tune she could play was the 
> theme from Deer Hunter and while that tune would have been OK within 
> the story, he was concerned by how much it might cost to get the 
> rights to use music from an American film. I pointed out that the 
> composer was Stanley Myers and that he was British, so it might be OK 
> after all. ?He was still doubtful, so I asked him if I could use his 
> phone. ?I opened my Filofax, phoned Stanley Myers and explained the 
> problem. ?He said it should be perfectly straightforward and not very 
> expensive, asking for our people to contact his people for it to be 
> sorted. ?I told the producer that the composer is happy for it to be 
> used and it won't be expensive. ?The look of the others in the room 
> was priceless when they realised I had just called a Hollywood 
> composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their problem. For some 
> reason I completely forgot to let them know that there wasn't another 
> composer on the planet who I could have made such a call with.
>
> On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively. ?On a police 
> drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a patrol car 
> were bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle of the night 
> when there is an explosion in a nearby factory. ?Rather than leave 
> absolute silence, I decided to subtly add quiet sounds which you might 
> not normally be aware of. ?Library 'atmos' recordings were trawled 
> through, but without much success and even the much-used "distant dog" 
> disk was far too prominent, so I used a portable DAT recorder to 
> record some suitable stuff in the middle of the night such as a train 
> passing three or four miles distant or occasional cars passing quite a 
> long way away. ?Distinct recordings of things with a lot of air 
> between them and the microphone sound quite different to a 
> conventional recording played quietly. ?It worked well in the mix 
> because when you half hear such things, you seem to listen that little 
> bit harder to try and work out what's there, which means that when the 
> explosion comes, you jump out of your seat. ?The gram op eagerly 
> offered to jump up and down at the back of the dubbing suite when the 
> explosion happened to make it seem more powerful for the director, but 
> I declined his kind offer.
>
> Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more challenging 
> in that respect because Phillip Saville was one of those directors who 
> always wanted everything turned up to 11 all the time. ?There were 
> some scenes where I knew we needed a large dynamic range because of 
> explosive effects or explosive dialogue, but if Phillip had had his 
> way, there would have been no headroom for the loud parts to rise 
> into. ?I always used to print dubbing sheets, which had a linear 
> timeline, typically showing two to three minutes per page, with each 
> track laid out vertically and plenty of room for my notes. ?It gave me 
> a good oversight of what was coming up and helped me keep to schedule. 
> ?If I needed to leave room for a loud noise, I would mark my dubbing 
> sheet to warn me at least thirty seconds ahead of that point within 
> the story that I needed to hold the levels a bit lower than usual so 
> that I could make an impact when needed. However, I found that I had 
> to compensate by boosting the control room speakers by a corresponding 
> amount so that Phillip didn't notice. ?Once the loud bit had been 
> mixed, there was then the problem of getting back to normal monitoring 
> levels, however scenes such as that were generally the culmination of 
> a build-up, so completing that scene was the ideal time for a quick 
> tea break and normal monitoring levels could resume unnoticed.
>
> Going back to "1917", ?for those who haven't yet seen it, I thoroughly 
> recommend it. ?My local cinema relegated it to the upstairs screen 
> with fabulously comfy seating for barely one hundred people. ?There 
> were only half a dozen other people there yesterday and they remained 
> utterly silent throughout the movie. ?I don't recall the last time I 
> watched a movie without being distracted at some point by others in 
> the cinema. ?It was well worth a fiver of anybody's money. ?I'm sure 
> than any of us folk watching that movie would think countless times 
> "How the hell did they do that?". ?There are some YouTube 
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vUBT6_CLF4>?videos explaining much 
> of it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first and only 
> watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Feb 11 14:46:26 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 20:46:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Long shots
In-Reply-To: <6731763C-BE48-4D3F-BFF1-86571EFE4754@me.com>
References: <D99A3BEC-CC82-45BE-A322-928FB0DC5937@gmail.com>
	<6731763C-BE48-4D3F-BFF1-86571EFE4754@me.com>
Message-ID: <65fe0486-a918-cb25-0541-65c1e9de1b6f@btinternet.com>

Many years ago there was a famous French film where the opening shot was 
a long zoom across the landscape ending up in a CU - this was long 
before modern tech. was available. I also loved the Youtube video about 
a long shot down a street from a drone and the cameraperson catching the 
drone and going indoors with it still shooting! Ain't tech. wonderful? 
Cheers, Dave

On 11/02/2020 17:08, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
> There are several YouTube videos explaining how they shot the movie. 
> ?I linked to one of the better ones in my original posting and I'm 
> sure they would be fascinating to many on here. ?It was mentioned that 
> some takes were as long as six minutes, so there would have been many 
> edits in the movie, but of course it was cleverly done so that they 
> were virtually unnoticeable.
>
> One thing that you could see in the videos was how the camera was 
> sometimes mounted on motorised gimbals and slung below a one metre 
> length of scaffold tubing. ?They show sequences where the camera rig 
> starts off mounted on a huge motorised telescopic camera crane ( 
> Technocrane? ) and when it is swung down to near ground level, two 
> operators grab either end of the pole and smoothly lift it off the 
> mounting hooks so that they can continue the sequence running along 
> with the rig. ?There are a lot of sequences which appear to use 
> SteadyCam with a short jib arm to allow height changes while moving. 
> ?There is also a sequence in the ruined village at night where the 
> camera operator runs along and steps ono a motorised platform to 
> continue the shot travelling faster that would otherwise be possible.
>
> Incidentally, some people complained that the movie was relentless and 
> always on the move, but Sam Mendes explains that war is like that. 
> ?You can't go back, you have to keep moving onwards and that's exactly 
> the effect he was trying to achieve.
>
> When the main character swam along the river and climbed out, I 
> wondered how long his clothes would remain wet for, but chuckled when 
> the next scene showed him running through a forest in very windy 
> conditions. ?I assumed that they must have decided to use big wind 
> machines to create a drying wind to explain how his uniform might dry 
> so rapidly.
>
> There are also some interesting explanations about how the art 
> department created the trenches and the sheer scale of those sets. 
> ?One of the extras also tells about a single tree which was standing 
> near the action for the final big battle scene. ?The HoneyWagon was 
> quite some distance from the location and at least a hundred extras 
> urinated against that tree as a quicker option than trudging back to 
> the Honey Wagon. ?To their horror the final scene is of our hero 
> sitting down against that tree. ?They had no idea that the tree was 
> going to be used for such a prominent shot.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
>
> On 11 Feb 2020, at 11 Feb . 16:11, Geoffrey Hawkes 
> <geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com <mailto:geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> ? Well done Alan for the detailed and interesting message though some 
>> parts were foreign-speak to me as a cameraman.
>> My wife and I went to see the film about three weeks ago and we were 
>> really impressed. The film runs for about 2hrs and the reputed 
>> one-continuous shot thing puzzled me as to how it could be achieved. 
>> I wondered what happened if they got nearly to the end and something 
>> went wrong; would they have to start again from the top (groan, 
>> groan, imagine!!). I asked Ian Head, a veteran cameraman about this 
>> and he said all that meant was that it would have been done in a 
>> series of single shots, each with no cut-aways and involved a change 
>> of mounting, eg for high-angle shots. It worked well and I was 
>> thankful that none of them were the dreaded wobbly-cam style.
>> We saw it in IMAX at Jarman Park, Hemel Hempstead and had a choice of 
>> that, the later Super-Screen or good-old 2D. We sat about half way up 
>> the auditorium and wished we?d sat further back as the fast action 
>> shots from side to side sometimes had our heads buzzing.
>> What you said about the contrasting sound levels was perfectly true 
>> and the occasional loud bursts, like when the plane crashed had the 
>> shocking effect intended, adding to the reality of the wartime 
>> experience which is what it was all about. I had taken earplugs with 
>> me in case it was all loud as is so often the case nowadays and was 
>> glad not to need them.
>> I recommend anyone who hasn?t seen the film to go and see it in 
>> Superscreen or IMAX if you can, but don?t sit too near the screen 
>> unless you really want the dizzying effect,
>> Geoff
>>
>>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ? Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing 
>>> movies I've ever seen. ?Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about 
>>> the way that it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the 
>>> entire movie and of course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it. 
>>> ?However I was also impressed by the sound track. ?I don't ever 
>>> recall going to a film where silence has been such a prominent 
>>> feature, which is all the more surprising because the story set in 
>>> the middle of a battlefield and conventionally, such a movie would 
>>> have explosions and noises all the time. ?Having the courage to pull 
>>> the sound effects right back and only use them when needed was a 
>>> masterstroke because it draws you in to what is happening to the 
>>> main characters. ?Obviously by being quiet for extended periods, it 
>>> also offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the audience with 
>>> sudden loud noises.
>>>
>>> It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to 
>>> exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I 
>>> worked on. ?In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded about 
>>> it, despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits as well 
>>> as loud bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to be 
>>> uninteresting, while clever use of light and shade makes for 
>>> impressive pictures. ?For me the breakthrough came when I did a Film 
>>> Two drama ( shot on video ), "The Russian Soldier", which few people 
>>> now remember. ?The director was Gavin Millar and he liked the idea 
>>> of enhancing the narrative by exploiting silence. ?The principle 
>>> location was a farm in a remote part of Dorset and the tense nature 
>>> of the storyline meant that periods of silence worked well, it drew 
>>> your attention to subtle reactions by the actors, it was as though 
>>> you could almost hear the character's brains working as events 
>>> unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we could easily 
>>> hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask everybody to 
>>> leave them behind. ?There was scene where the dialogue went from a 
>>> barely audible whisper to the loudest possible angry shout just a 
>>> fraction of a second later. In order to handle the dynamic range, I 
>>> fed the microphone to two channels, one set at a level for whispers, 
>>> with the other set for the screaming. ?The whisper channel was 
>>> rapidly faded out on cue, while the screaming channel was left up 
>>> throughout. A second, more distant microphone was also left faded 
>>> up, which provided a touch of room ambience to the shouting, which 
>>> made it sound even louder. This was in the days before split track 
>>> recordings were feasible on VT, so it was important to get it right 
>>> on the recording. ?I did take the precaution of making a safety 
>>> recording on a Nagra, but didn't need to use it. ?The scene was very 
>>> emotional and the actors didn't want to keep rehearsing it or 
>>> shooting it, so after a quick rehearsal, the red light went on and 
>>> every take was useable, retakes were only needed for performance 
>>> reasons.
>>>
>>> I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat 
>>> concerned when Gavin started telling me about the music. ?He told me 
>>> that he had managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an 
>>> Oscar for his score on The Deer Hunter. ?I was a young TV sound 
>>> supervisor and I initially felt somewhat intimidated by the prospect 
>>> of working with somebody of his stature and was worried that he 
>>> might be intending to deliver a massive orchestral music score which 
>>> would be at odds with the ideas I had for the sound track, but when 
>>> we started discussing it, we found ourselves in complete agreement. 
>>> ?I had experienced issues previously where composers delivered music 
>>> which largely obliterated important dialogue and wanted to explain 
>>> to him how I like the music and dialogue to co-exist harmoniously, 
>>> but needed to be diplomatic so as not to cause offence. The 
>>> comparison I made was with any typical Frank Sinatra recording, 
>>> especially those scored by Nelson Riddle. ?What you think you hear 
>>> is a massive orchestra giving all they've got with Frank singing 
>>> over the top if it. ?What actually happens is that the orchestra 
>>> gives everything they've got during the intro, but when Frank sings, 
>>> the only thing continuing behind him is the rhythm section strumming 
>>> along, with no strident trumpets. His voice is always clearly heard. 
>>> ?At the end of each phrase, the orchestra kicks in at full volume, 
>>> especially the brass section. The music weaves around the voice, 
>>> never competing, dropping away just in time for Frank's next line. 
>>> Stanley loved that comparison, especially as it was described in a 
>>> way which made perfect sense to a musician, so much so that he went 
>>> on to say that he proposed to pinch that comparison and use it 
>>> during his lectures on score writing.
>>>
>>> Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue 
>>> peak to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely. ?Obviously you don't 
>>> just leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if 
>>> the faders had been left alone, it would have been perfectly usable. 
>>> ?During one particularly emotional scene, the music was barely 
>>> peaking 1 and was borderline inaudible at times, but that's exactly 
>>> how he wanted it and it worked beautifully.
>>>
>>> As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production 
>>> meeting in Threshold House for another drama. ?During the small talk 
>>> prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that they had 
>>> cast an actor for a major role because she claimed she could play 
>>> the piano, which was only ?minor requirement for her role, but that 
>>> morning they discovered that the only tune she could play was the 
>>> theme from Deer Hunter and while that tune would have been OK within 
>>> the story, he was concerned by how much it might cost to get the 
>>> rights to use music from an American film. I pointed out that the 
>>> composer was Stanley Myers and that he was British, so it might be 
>>> OK after all. ?He was still doubtful, so I asked him if I could use 
>>> his phone. ?I opened my Filofax, phoned Stanley Myers and explained 
>>> the problem. ?He said it should be perfectly straightforward and not 
>>> very expensive, asking for our people to contact his people for it 
>>> to be sorted. ?I told the producer that the composer is happy for it 
>>> to be used and it won't be expensive. ?The look of the others in the 
>>> room was priceless when they realised I had just called a Hollywood 
>>> composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their problem. For some 
>>> reason I completely forgot to let them know that there wasn't 
>>> another composer on the planet who I could have made such a call with.
>>>
>>> On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively. ?On a 
>>> police drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a 
>>> patrol car were bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle of 
>>> the night when there is an explosion in a nearby factory. ?Rather 
>>> than leave absolute silence, I decided to subtly add quiet sounds 
>>> which you might not normally be aware of. ?Library 'atmos' 
>>> recordings were trawled through, but without much success and even 
>>> the much-used "distant dog" disk was far too prominent, so I used a 
>>> portable DAT recorder to record some suitable stuff in the middle of 
>>> the night such as a train passing three or four miles distant or 
>>> occasional cars passing quite a long way away. ?Distinct recordings 
>>> of things with a lot of air between them and the microphone sound 
>>> quite different to a conventional recording played quietly. ?It 
>>> worked well in the mix because when you half hear such things, you 
>>> seem to listen that little bit harder to try and work out what's 
>>> there, which means that when the explosion comes, you jump out of 
>>> your seat. ?The gram op eagerly offered to jump up and down at the 
>>> back of the dubbing suite when the explosion happened to make it 
>>> seem more powerful for the director, but I declined his kind offer.
>>>
>>> Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more 
>>> challenging in that respect because Phillip Saville was one of those 
>>> directors who always wanted everything turned up to 11 all the time. 
>>> ?There were some scenes where I knew we needed a large dynamic range 
>>> because of explosive effects or explosive dialogue, but if Phillip 
>>> had had his way, there would have been no headroom for the loud 
>>> parts to rise into. ?I always used to print dubbing sheets, which 
>>> had a linear timeline, typically showing two to three minutes per 
>>> page, with each track laid out vertically and plenty of room for my 
>>> notes. ?It gave me a good oversight of what was coming up and helped 
>>> me keep to schedule. ?If I needed to leave room for a loud noise, I 
>>> would mark my dubbing sheet to warn me at least thirty seconds ahead 
>>> of that point within the story that I needed to hold the levels a 
>>> bit lower than usual so that I could make an impact when needed. 
>>> However, I found that I had to compensate by boosting the control 
>>> room speakers by a corresponding amount so that Phillip didn't 
>>> notice. ?Once the loud bit had been mixed, there was then the 
>>> problem of getting back to normal monitoring levels, however scenes 
>>> such as that were generally the culmination of a build-up, so 
>>> completing that scene was the ideal time for a quick tea break and 
>>> normal monitoring levels could resume unnoticed.
>>>
>>> Going back to "1917", ?for those who haven't yet seen it, I 
>>> thoroughly recommend it. ?My local cinema relegated it to the 
>>> upstairs screen with fabulously comfy seating for barely one hundred 
>>> people. ?There were only half a dozen other people there yesterday 
>>> and they remained utterly silent throughout the movie. ?I don't 
>>> recall the last time I watched a movie without being distracted at 
>>> some point by others in the cinema. ?It was well worth a fiver of 
>>> anybody's money. ?I'm sure than any of us folk watching that movie 
>>> would think countless times "How the hell did they do that?". ?There 
>>> are some YouTube 
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vUBT6_CLF4>?videos explaining much 
>>> of it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first and only 
>>> watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.
>>>
>>> Alan Taylor
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Feb 11 14:58:10 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 20:58:10 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Storm Ciara
Message-ID: <8d5ac808-ecef-dd38-18a0-d8c11210a7f9@btinternet.com>

My Kenyan/Indian neighbours have the pleasure of at least 42 fence 
panels round their garden as they have a passageway on one side of their 
property. They opted for the cheapest panels (as you would!). They have 
already replaced at least 12 due to their flimsiness and the attached 
photo shows what strong wind can do to them. There are more round the 
garden which have lost various bits. When my wife was wanting new 
fencing her favourite panels were? about ?69 each!? I'm glad we had 
bespoke fencing done with posts and rails in the traditional way!? 
Cheers, Dave

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From alanaudio at me.com  Tue Feb 11 15:27:49 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:27:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
In-Reply-To: <0ad010c9-dcde-38fe-9f0d-69f8b987b0f7@btinternet.com>
References: <0ad010c9-dcde-38fe-9f0d-69f8b987b0f7@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <72BC8F74-A07A-4E86-A82C-E2D3D5DAD6CE@me.com>

The Odeon, Banbury charges ?5 per reserved seat ( no concession prices ) for most 2D movies other than certain  blockbusters, or ?5.75 if you book online.  Screen 2, upstairs has the comfiest seats, but the others are good.  You can see the prices for yourself online if you want. 

John Craven lives near me and when I was working with him one day, he explained that he likes to go to afternoon ?silver screenings? for seniors, where the prices are even lower. 

As Screen 2 tends to show less popular movies, or movies that have been out for a while, it?s rarely crowded and the audiences are usually very well behaved, some even staying to watch all the credits  - much to the annoyance of the staff who want to lock up and go home. When we went to see the David Copperfield film last Monday evening, we were the only couple in the entire cinema, so we relocated to the super comfy premium seats just to check out what they were like. 

It?s not a multiplex, it only has two screens, therefore the choice of movies is limited, but they?re just starting to build a new multiplex in town which should bring a bit of competition. 

As if that wasn?t enough, there is a council car park directly outside the front door of the cinema with free parking after 19:00 and we usually find plenty of spaces there. 

Life in the sticks does have some advantages. 

Alan Taylor



> On 11 Feb 2020, at 20:39, dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Lovely e-mail, Alan, but where on earth can you see a film in comfy seats for ?5? Our nearest multi-screen complex in Kingston charges at least ?15 for a reclining duo-seat with footrest and food tray so you can have a nice glass of red stuff and even a slice of pizza! Why people have to eat their meals in a cinema is beyond me!  The last 007 film I went to see was totally ruined by the moron in the next seat dipping into his bucket of popcorn every few seconds at regular intervals throughout the whole film, in my peripheral vision. When we were in New Zealand, we went to a lovely cinema. A helicopter pilot had spent 10 years filming the Southern Alps and built a cinema to show his movie. You could have afternoon tea and watch the glory of the landscape in comfort, that was acceptable eating in a cinema, popcorn etc. isn't! End of rant! Cheers, Dave
> 
> ,On 11/02/2020 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing movies I've ever seen.  Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about the way that it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the entire movie and of course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it.  However I was also impressed by the sound track.  I don't ever recall going to a film where silence has been such a prominent feature, which is all the more surprising because the story set in the middle of a battlefield and conventionally, such a movie would have explosions and noises all the time.  Having the courage to pull the sound effects right back and only use them when needed was a masterstroke because it draws you in to what is happening to the main characters.  Obviously by being quiet for extended periods, it also offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the audience with sudden loud noises. 
>> 
>> It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I worked on.  In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded about it, despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits as well as loud bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to be uninteresting, while clever use of light and shade makes for impressive pictures.  For me the breakthrough came when I did a Film Two drama ( shot on video ), "The Russian Soldier", which few people now remember.  The director was Gavin Millar and he liked the idea of enhancing the narrative by exploiting silence.  The principle location was a farm in a remote part of Dorset and the tense nature of the storyline meant that periods of silence worked well, it drew your attention to subtle reactions by the actors, it was as though you could almost hear the character's brains working as events unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we could easily hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask everybody to leave them behind.  There was scene where the dialogue went from a barely audible whisper to the loudest possible angry shout just a fraction of a second later. In order to handle the dynamic range, I fed the microphone to two channels, one set at a level for whispers, with the other set for the screaming.  The whisper channel was rapidly faded out on cue, while the screaming channel was left up throughout. A second, more distant microphone was also left faded up, which provided a touch of room ambience to the shouting, which made it sound even louder. This was in the days before split track recordings were feasible on VT, so it was important to get it right on the recording.  I did take the precaution of making a safety recording on a Nagra, but didn't need to use it.  The scene was very emotional and the actors didn't want to keep rehearsing it or shooting it, so after a quick rehearsal, the red light went on and every take was useable, retakes were only needed for performance reasons.
>> 
>> I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat concerned when Gavin started telling me about the music.  He told me that he had managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an Oscar for his score on The Deer Hunter.  I was a young TV sound supervisor and I initially felt somewhat intimidated by the prospect of working with somebody of his stature and was worried that he might be intending to deliver a massive orchestral music score which would be at odds with the ideas I had for the sound track, but when we started discussing it, we found ourselves in complete agreement.  I had experienced issues previously where composers delivered music which largely obliterated important dialogue and wanted to explain to him how I like the music and dialogue to co-exist harmoniously, but needed to be diplomatic so as not to cause offence. The comparison I made was with any typical Frank Sinatra recording, especially those scored by Nelson Riddle.  What you think you hear is a massive orchestra giving all they've got with Frank singing over the top if it.  What actually happens is that the orchestra gives everything they've got during the intro, but when Frank sings, the only thing continuing behind him is the rhythm section strumming along, with no strident trumpets. His voice is always clearly heard.  At the end of each phrase, the orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the brass section. The music weaves around the voice, never competing, dropping away just in time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved that comparison, especially as it was described in a way which made perfect sense to a musician, so much so that he went on to say that he proposed to pinch that comparison and use it during his lectures on score writing.  
>> 
>> Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue peak to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely.  Obviously you don't just leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if the faders had been left alone, it would have been perfectly usable.  During one particularly emotional scene, the music was barely peaking 1 and was borderline inaudible at times, but that's exactly how he wanted it and it worked beautifully.
>> 
>> As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production meeting in Threshold House for another drama.  During the small talk prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that they had cast an actor for a major role because she claimed she could play the piano, which was only  minor requirement for her role, but that morning they discovered that the only tune she could play was the theme from Deer Hunter and while that tune would have been OK within the story, he was concerned by how much it might cost to get the rights to use music from an American film. I pointed out that the composer was Stanley Myers and that he was British, so it might be OK after all.  He was still doubtful, so I asked him if I could use his phone.  I opened my Filofax, phoned Stanley Myers and explained the problem.  He said it should be perfectly straightforward and not very expensive, asking for our people to contact his people for it to be sorted.  I told the producer that the composer is happy for it to be used and it won't be expensive.  The look of the others in the room was priceless when they realised I had just called a Hollywood composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their problem. For some reason I completely forgot to let them know that there wasn't another composer on the planet who I could have made such a call with.
>> 
>> On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively.  On a police drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a patrol car were bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle of the night when there is an explosion in a nearby factory.  Rather than leave absolute silence, I decided to subtly add quiet sounds which you might not normally be aware of.  Library 'atmos' recordings were trawled through, but without much success and even the much-used "distant dog" disk was far too prominent, so I used a portable DAT recorder to record some suitable stuff in the middle of the night such as a train passing three or four miles distant or occasional cars passing quite a long way away.  Distinct recordings of things with a lot of air between them and the microphone sound quite different to a conventional recording played quietly.  It worked well in the mix because when you half hear such things, you seem to listen that little bit harder to try and work out what's there, which means that when the explosion comes, you jump out of your seat.  The gram op eagerly offered to jump up and down at the back of the dubbing suite when the explosion happened to make it seem more powerful for the director, but I declined his kind offer.
>> 
>> Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more challenging in that respect because Phillip Saville was one of those directors who always wanted everything turned up to 11 all the time.  There were some scenes where I knew we needed a large dynamic range because of explosive effects or explosive dialogue, but if Phillip had had his way, there would have been no headroom for the loud parts to rise into.  I always used to print dubbing sheets, which had a linear timeline, typically showing two to three minutes per page, with each track laid out vertically and plenty of room for my notes.  It gave me a good oversight of what was coming up and helped me keep to schedule.  If I needed to leave room for a loud noise, I would mark my dubbing sheet to warn me at least thirty seconds ahead of that point within the story that I needed to hold the levels a bit lower than usual so that I could make an impact when needed. However, I found that I had to compensate by boosting the control room speakers by a corresponding amount so that Phillip didn't notice.  Once the loud bit had been mixed, there was then the problem of getting back to normal monitoring levels, however scenes such as that were generally the culmination of a build-up, so completing that scene was the ideal time for a quick tea break and normal monitoring levels could resume unnoticed.
>> 
>> Going back to "1917",  for those who haven't yet seen it, I thoroughly recommend it.  My local cinema relegated it to the upstairs screen with fabulously comfy seating for barely one hundred people.  There were only half a dozen other people there yesterday and they remained utterly silent throughout the movie.  I don't recall the last time I watched a movie without being distracted at some point by others in the cinema.  It was well worth a fiver of anybody's money.  I'm sure than any of us folk watching that movie would think countless times "How the hell did they do that?".  There are some YouTube videos explaining much of it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first and only watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 11 15:36:08 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:36:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Long shots
In-Reply-To: <65fe0486-a918-cb25-0541-65c1e9de1b6f@btinternet.com>
References: <D99A3BEC-CC82-45BE-A322-928FB0DC5937@gmail.com>
	<6731763C-BE48-4D3F-BFF1-86571EFE4754@me.com>
	<65fe0486-a918-cb25-0541-65c1e9de1b6f@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <b4a08741-2adb-a17c-0f29-9dd9c216a466@gmail.com>

And there's this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yaADxguP2Y

Pick it up at 07.50

B



On 11/02/2020 20:46, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Many years ago there was a famous French film where the opening shot 
> was a long zoom across the landscape ending up in a CU - this was long 
> before modern tech. was available. I also loved the Youtube video 
> about a long shot down a street from a drone and the cameraperson 
> catching the drone and going indoors with it still shooting! Ain't 
> tech. wonderful? Cheers, Dave
>
> On 11/02/2020 17:08, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> There are several YouTube videos explaining how they shot the movie. 
>> ?I linked to one of the better ones in my original posting and I'm 
>> sure they would be fascinating to many on here. ?It was mentioned 
>> that some takes were as long as six minutes, so there would have been 
>> many edits in the movie, but of course it was cleverly done so that 
>> they were virtually unnoticeable.
>>
>> One thing that you could see in the videos was how the camera was 
>> sometimes mounted on motorised gimbals and slung below a one metre 
>> length of scaffold tubing. ?They show sequences where the camera rig 
>> starts off mounted on a huge motorised telescopic camera crane ( 
>> Technocrane? ) and when it is swung down to near ground level, two 
>> operators grab either end of the pole and smoothly lift it off the 
>> mounting hooks so that they can continue the sequence running along 
>> with the rig. ?There are a lot of sequences which appear to use 
>> SteadyCam with a short jib arm to allow height changes while moving. 
>> ?There is also a sequence in the ruined village at night where the 
>> camera operator runs along and steps ono a motorised platform to 
>> continue the shot travelling faster that would otherwise be possible.
>>
>> Incidentally, some people complained that the movie was relentless 
>> and always on the move, but Sam Mendes explains that war is like 
>> that. ?You can't go back, you have to keep moving onwards and that's 
>> exactly the effect he was trying to achieve.
>>
>> When the main character swam along the river and climbed out, I 
>> wondered how long his clothes would remain wet for, but chuckled when 
>> the next scene showed him running through a forest in very windy 
>> conditions. ?I assumed that they must have decided to use big wind 
>> machines to create a drying wind to explain how his uniform might dry 
>> so rapidly.
>>
>> There are also some interesting explanations about how the art 
>> department created the trenches and the sheer scale of those sets. 
>> ?One of the extras also tells about a single tree which was standing 
>> near the action for the final big battle scene. ?The HoneyWagon was 
>> quite some distance from the location and at least a hundred extras 
>> urinated against that tree as a quicker option than trudging back to 
>> the Honey Wagon. ?To their horror the final scene is of our hero 
>> sitting down against that tree. ?They had no idea that the tree was 
>> going to be used for such a prominent shot.
>>
>> Alan Taylor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 11 Feb . 16:11, Geoffrey Hawkes 
>> <geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com <mailto:geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> ? Well done Alan for the detailed and interesting message though 
>>> some parts were foreign-speak to me as a cameraman.
>>> My wife and I went to see the film about three weeks ago and we were 
>>> really impressed. The film runs for about 2hrs and the reputed 
>>> one-continuous shot thing puzzled me as to how it could be achieved. 
>>> I wondered what happened if they got nearly to the end and something 
>>> went wrong; would they have to start again from the top (groan, 
>>> groan, imagine!!). I asked Ian Head, a veteran cameraman about this 
>>> and he said all that meant was that it would have been done in a 
>>> series of single shots, each with no cut-aways and involved a change 
>>> of mounting, eg for high-angle shots. It worked well and I was 
>>> thankful that none of them were the dreaded wobbly-cam style.
>>> We saw it in IMAX at Jarman Park, Hemel Hempstead and had a choice 
>>> of that, the later Super-Screen or good-old 2D. We sat about half 
>>> way up the auditorium and wished we?d sat further back as the fast 
>>> action shots from side to side sometimes had our heads buzzing.
>>> What you said about the contrasting sound levels was perfectly true 
>>> and the occasional loud bursts, like when the plane crashed had the 
>>> shocking effect intended, adding to the reality of the wartime 
>>> experience which is what it was all about. I had taken earplugs with 
>>> me in case it was all loud as is so often the case nowadays and was 
>>> glad not to need them.
>>> I recommend anyone who hasn?t seen the film to go and see it in 
>>> Superscreen or IMAX if you can, but don?t sit too near the screen 
>>> unless you really want the dizzying effect,
>>> Geoff
>>>
>>>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ? Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing 
>>>> movies I've ever seen. ?Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about 
>>>> the way that it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the 
>>>> entire movie and of course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it. 
>>>> ?However I was also impressed by the sound track. ?I don't ever 
>>>> recall going to a film where silence has been such a prominent 
>>>> feature, which is all the more surprising because the story set in 
>>>> the middle of a battlefield and conventionally, such a movie would 
>>>> have explosions and noises all the time. ?Having the courage to 
>>>> pull the sound effects right back and only use them when needed was 
>>>> a masterstroke because it draws you in to what is happening to the 
>>>> main characters. ?Obviously by being quiet for extended periods, it 
>>>> also offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the audience with 
>>>> sudden loud noises.
>>>>
>>>> It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to 
>>>> exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I 
>>>> worked on. ?In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded 
>>>> about it, despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits 
>>>> as well as loud bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to 
>>>> be uninteresting, while clever use of light and shade makes for 
>>>> impressive pictures. ?For me the breakthrough came when I did a 
>>>> Film Two drama ( shot on video ), "The Russian Soldier", which few 
>>>> people now remember. ?The director was Gavin Millar and he liked 
>>>> the idea of enhancing the narrative by exploiting silence. ?The 
>>>> principle location was a farm in a remote part of Dorset and the 
>>>> tense nature of the storyline meant that periods of silence worked 
>>>> well, it drew your attention to subtle reactions by the actors, it 
>>>> was as though you could almost hear the character's brains working 
>>>> as events unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we 
>>>> could easily hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask 
>>>> everybody to leave them behind. ?There was scene where the dialogue 
>>>> went from a barely audible whisper to the loudest possible angry 
>>>> shout just a fraction of a second later. In order to handle the 
>>>> dynamic range, I fed the microphone to two channels, one set at a 
>>>> level for whispers, with the other set for the screaming. ?The 
>>>> whisper channel was rapidly faded out on cue, while the screaming 
>>>> channel was left up throughout. A second, more distant microphone 
>>>> was also left faded up, which provided a touch of room ambience to 
>>>> the shouting, which made it sound even louder. This was in the days 
>>>> before split track recordings were feasible on VT, so it was 
>>>> important to get it right on the recording. ?I did take the 
>>>> precaution of making a safety recording on a Nagra, but didn't need 
>>>> to use it. ?The scene was very emotional and the actors didn't want 
>>>> to keep rehearsing it or shooting it, so after a quick rehearsal, 
>>>> the red light went on and every take was useable, retakes were only 
>>>> needed for performance reasons.
>>>>
>>>> I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat 
>>>> concerned when Gavin started telling me about the music. ?He told 
>>>> me that he had managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an 
>>>> Oscar for his score on The Deer Hunter. ?I was a young TV sound 
>>>> supervisor and I initially felt somewhat intimidated by the 
>>>> prospect of working with somebody of his stature and was worried 
>>>> that he might be intending to deliver a massive orchestral music 
>>>> score which would be at odds with the ideas I had for the sound 
>>>> track, but when we started discussing it, we found ourselves in 
>>>> complete agreement. ?I had experienced issues previously where 
>>>> composers delivered music which largely obliterated important 
>>>> dialogue and wanted to explain to him how I like the music and 
>>>> dialogue to co-exist harmoniously, but needed to be diplomatic so 
>>>> as not to cause offence. The comparison I made was with any typical 
>>>> Frank Sinatra recording, especially those scored by Nelson Riddle. 
>>>> ?What you think you hear is a massive orchestra giving all they've 
>>>> got with Frank singing over the top if it. ?What actually happens 
>>>> is that the orchestra gives everything they've got during the 
>>>> intro, but when Frank sings, the only thing continuing behind him 
>>>> is the rhythm section strumming along, with no strident trumpets. 
>>>> His voice is always clearly heard. ?At the end of each phrase, the 
>>>> orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the brass section. 
>>>> The music weaves around the voice, never competing, dropping away 
>>>> just in time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved that comparison, 
>>>> especially as it was described in a way which made perfect sense to 
>>>> a musician, so much so that he went on to say that he proposed to 
>>>> pinch that comparison and use it during his lectures on score writing.
>>>>
>>>> Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue 
>>>> peak to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely. ?Obviously you don't 
>>>> just leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if 
>>>> the faders had been left alone, it would have been perfectly 
>>>> usable. ?During one particularly emotional scene, the music was 
>>>> barely peaking 1 and was borderline inaudible at times, but that's 
>>>> exactly how he wanted it and it worked beautifully.
>>>>
>>>> As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production 
>>>> meeting in Threshold House for another drama. ?During the small 
>>>> talk prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that 
>>>> they had cast an actor for a major role because she claimed she 
>>>> could play the piano, which was only ?minor requirement for her 
>>>> role, but that morning they discovered that the only tune she could 
>>>> play was the theme from Deer Hunter and while that tune would have 
>>>> been OK within the story, he was concerned by how much it might 
>>>> cost to get the rights to use music from an American film. I 
>>>> pointed out that the composer was Stanley Myers and that he was 
>>>> British, so it might be OK after all. ?He was still doubtful, so I 
>>>> asked him if I could use his phone. ?I opened my Filofax, phoned 
>>>> Stanley Myers and explained the problem. ?He said it should be 
>>>> perfectly straightforward and not very expensive, asking for our 
>>>> people to contact his people for it to be sorted. ?I told the 
>>>> producer that the composer is happy for it to be used and it won't 
>>>> be expensive. ?The look of the others in the room was priceless 
>>>> when they realised I had just called a Hollywood composer, had a 
>>>> friendly chat and resolved their problem. For some reason I 
>>>> completely forgot to let them know that there wasn't another 
>>>> composer on the planet who I could have made such a call with.
>>>>
>>>> On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively. ?On a 
>>>> police drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a 
>>>> patrol car were bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle 
>>>> of the night when there is an explosion in a nearby factory. 
>>>> ?Rather than leave absolute silence, I decided to subtly add quiet 
>>>> sounds which you might not normally be aware of. ?Library 'atmos' 
>>>> recordings were trawled through, but without much success and even 
>>>> the much-used "distant dog" disk was far too prominent, so I used a 
>>>> portable DAT recorder to record some suitable stuff in the middle 
>>>> of the night such as a train passing three or four miles distant or 
>>>> occasional cars passing quite a long way away. ?Distinct recordings 
>>>> of things with a lot of air between them and the microphone sound 
>>>> quite different to a conventional recording played quietly. ?It 
>>>> worked well in the mix because when you half hear such things, you 
>>>> seem to listen that little bit harder to try and work out what's 
>>>> there, which means that when the explosion comes, you jump out of 
>>>> your seat. ?The gram op eagerly offered to jump up and down at the 
>>>> back of the dubbing suite when the explosion happened to make it 
>>>> seem more powerful for the director, but I declined his kind offer.
>>>>
>>>> Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more 
>>>> challenging in that respect because Phillip Saville was one of 
>>>> those directors who always wanted everything turned up to 11 all 
>>>> the time. ?There were some scenes where I knew we needed a large 
>>>> dynamic range because of explosive effects or explosive dialogue, 
>>>> but if Phillip had had his way, there would have been no headroom 
>>>> for the loud parts to rise into. ?I always used to print dubbing 
>>>> sheets, which had a linear timeline, typically showing two to three 
>>>> minutes per page, with each track laid out vertically and plenty of 
>>>> room for my notes. ?It gave me a good oversight of what was coming 
>>>> up and helped me keep to schedule. ?If I needed to leave room for a 
>>>> loud noise, I would mark my dubbing sheet to warn me at least 
>>>> thirty seconds ahead of that point within the story that I needed 
>>>> to hold the levels a bit lower than usual so that I could make an 
>>>> impact when needed. However, I found that I had to compensate by 
>>>> boosting the control room speakers by a corresponding amount so 
>>>> that Phillip didn't notice. ?Once the loud bit had been mixed, 
>>>> there was then the problem of getting back to normal monitoring 
>>>> levels, however scenes such as that were generally the culmination 
>>>> of a build-up, so completing that scene was the ideal time for a 
>>>> quick tea break and normal monitoring levels could resume unnoticed.
>>>>
>>>> Going back to "1917", ?for those who haven't yet seen it, I 
>>>> thoroughly recommend it. ?My local cinema relegated it to the 
>>>> upstairs screen with fabulously comfy seating for barely one 
>>>> hundred people. ?There were only half a dozen other people there 
>>>> yesterday and they remained utterly silent throughout the movie. ?I 
>>>> don't recall the last time I watched a movie without being 
>>>> distracted at some point by others in the cinema. ?It was well 
>>>> worth a fiver of anybody's money. ?I'm sure than any of us folk 
>>>> watching that movie would think countless times "How the hell did 
>>>> they do that?". ?There are some YouTube 
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vUBT6_CLF4>?videos explaining 
>>>> much of it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first 
>>>> and only watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.
>>>>
>>>> Alan Taylor
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>>
>

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From waresound at msn.com  Tue Feb 11 15:42:36 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:42:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Long shots
In-Reply-To: <65fe0486-a918-cb25-0541-65c1e9de1b6f@btinternet.com>
References: <D99A3BEC-CC82-45BE-A322-928FB0DC5937@gmail.com>
	<6731763C-BE48-4D3F-BFF1-86571EFE4754@me.com>,
	<65fe0486-a918-cb25-0541-65c1e9de1b6f@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271F9E71486BC26CAF18362A7180@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

There?s nothing new about long shots (as in lengthy, clever hidden joins etc). The best ever as far as I?m concerned was the final shot in Moulin Rouge. (Dir. Baz Luhrmannj). If you haven?t seen that you should do. Music to die for too.
And then, there?s the train journey scene in Dr Zhivago. Classic.
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 11 Feb 2020, at 20:46, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?

Many years ago there was a famous French film where the opening shot was a long zoom across the landscape ending up in a CU - this was long before modern tech. was available. I also loved the Youtube video about a long shot down a street from a drone and the cameraperson catching the drone and going indoors with it still shooting! Ain't tech. wonderful? Cheers, Dave

On 11/02/2020 17:08, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
There are several YouTube videos explaining how they shot the movie.  I linked to one of the better ones in my original posting and I'm sure they would be fascinating to many on here.  It was mentioned that some takes were as long as six minutes, so there would have been many edits in the movie, but of course it was cleverly done so that they were virtually unnoticeable.

One thing that you could see in the videos was how the camera was sometimes mounted on motorised gimbals and slung below a one metre length of scaffold tubing.  They show sequences where the camera rig starts off mounted on a huge motorised telescopic camera crane ( Technocrane? ) and when it is swung down to near ground level, two operators grab either end of the pole and smoothly lift it off the mounting hooks so that they can continue the sequence running along with the rig.  There are a lot of sequences which appear to use SteadyCam with a short jib arm to allow height changes while moving.  There is also a sequence in the ruined village at night where the camera operator runs along and steps ono a motorised platform to continue the shot travelling faster that would otherwise be possible.

Incidentally, some people complained that the movie was relentless and always on the move, but Sam Mendes explains that war is like that.  You can't go back, you have to keep moving onwards and that's exactly the effect he was trying to achieve.

When the main character swam along the river and climbed out, I wondered how long his clothes would remain wet for, but chuckled when the next scene showed him running through a forest in very windy conditions.  I assumed that they must have decided to use big wind machines to create a drying wind to explain how his uniform might dry so rapidly.

There are also some interesting explanations about how the art department created the trenches and the sheer scale of those sets.  One of the extras also tells about a single tree which was standing near the action for the final big battle scene.  The HoneyWagon was quite some distance from the location and at least a hundred extras urinated against that tree as a quicker option than trudging back to the Honey Wagon.  To their horror the final scene is of our hero sitting down against that tree.  They had no idea that the tree was going to be used for such a prominent shot.

Alan Taylor




On 11 Feb 2020, at 11 Feb . 16:11, Geoffrey Hawkes <geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com<mailto:geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com>> wrote:

? Well done Alan for the detailed and interesting message though some parts were foreign-speak to me as a cameraman.
My wife and I went to see the film about three weeks ago and we were really impressed. The film runs for about 2hrs and the reputed one-continuous shot thing puzzled me as to how it could be achieved. I wondered what happened if they got nearly to the end and something went wrong; would they have to start again from the top (groan, groan, imagine!!). I asked Ian Head, a veteran cameraman about this and he said all that meant was that it would have been done in a series of single shots, each with no cut-aways and involved a change of mounting, eg for high-angle shots. It worked well and I was thankful that none of them were the dreaded wobbly-cam style.
We saw it in IMAX at Jarman Park, Hemel Hempstead and had a choice of that, the later Super-Screen or good-old 2D. We sat about half way up the auditorium and wished we?d sat further back as the fast action shots from side to side sometimes had our heads buzzing.
What you said about the contrasting sound levels was perfectly true and the occasional loud bursts, like when the plane crashed had the shocking effect intended, adding to the reality of the wartime experience which is what it was all about. I had taken earplugs with me in case it was all loud as is so often the case nowadays and was glad not to need them.
I recommend anyone who hasn?t seen the film to go and see it in Superscreen or IMAX if you can, but don?t sit too near the screen unless you really want the dizzying effect,
Geoff

On 11 Feb 2020, at 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

? Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing movies I've ever seen.  Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about the way that it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the entire movie and of course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it.  However I was also impressed by the sound track.  I don't ever recall going to a film where silence has been such a prominent feature, which is all the more surprising because the story set in the middle of a battlefield and conventionally, such a movie would have explosions and noises all the time.  Having the courage to pull the sound effects right back and only use them when needed was a masterstroke because it draws you in to what is happening to the main characters.  Obviously by being quiet for extended periods, it also offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the audience with sudden loud noises.

It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I worked on.  In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded about it, despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits as well as loud bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to be uninteresting, while clever use of light and shade makes for impressive pictures.  For me the breakthrough came when I did a Film Two drama ( shot on video ), "The Russian Soldier", which few people now remember.  The director was Gavin Millar and he liked the idea of enhancing the narrative by exploiting silence.  The principle location was a farm in a remote part of Dorset and the tense nature of the storyline meant that periods of silence worked well, it drew your attention to subtle reactions by the actors, it was as though you could almost hear the character's brains working as events unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we could easily hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask everybody to leave them behind.  There was scene where the dialogue went from a barely audible whisper to the loudest possible angry shout just a fraction of a second later. In order to handle the dynamic range, I fed the microphone to two channels, one set at a level for whispers, with the other set for the screaming.  The whisper channel was rapidly faded out on cue, while the screaming channel was left up throughout. A second, more distant microphone was also left faded up, which provided a touch of room ambience to the shouting, which made it sound even louder. This was in the days before split track recordings were feasible on VT, so it was important to get it right on the recording.  I did take the precaution of making a safety recording on a Nagra, but didn't need to use it.  The scene was very emotional and the actors didn't want to keep rehearsing it or shooting it, so after a quick rehearsal, the red light went on and every take was useable, retakes were only needed for performance reasons.

I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat concerned when Gavin started telling me about the music.  He told me that he had managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an Oscar for his score on The Deer Hunter.  I was a young TV sound supervisor and I initially felt somewhat intimidated by the prospect of working with somebody of his stature and was worried that he might be intending to deliver a massive orchestral music score which would be at odds with the ideas I had for the sound track, but when we started discussing it, we found ourselves in complete agreement.  I had experienced issues previously where composers delivered music which largely obliterated important dialogue and wanted to explain to him how I like the music and dialogue to co-exist harmoniously, but needed to be diplomatic so as not to cause offence. The comparison I made was with any typical Frank Sinatra recording, especially those scored by Nelson Riddle.  What you think you hear is a massive orchestra giving all they've got with Frank singing over the top if it.  What actually happens is that the orchestra gives everything they've got during the intro, but when Frank sings, the only thing continuing behind him is the rhythm section strumming along, with no strident trumpets. His voice is always clearly heard.  At the end of each phrase, the orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the brass section. The music weaves around the voice, never competing, dropping away just in time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved that comparison, especially as it was described in a way which made perfect sense to a musician, so much so that he went on to say that he proposed to pinch that comparison and use it during his lectures on score writing.

Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue peak to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely.  Obviously you don't just leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if the faders had been left alone, it would have been perfectly usable.  During one particularly emotional scene, the music was barely peaking 1 and was borderline inaudible at times, but that's exactly how he wanted it and it worked beautifully.

As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production meeting in Threshold House for another drama.  During the small talk prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that they had cast an actor for a major role because she claimed she could play the piano, which was only  minor requirement for her role, but that morning they discovered that the only tune she could play was the theme from Deer Hunter and while that tune would have been OK within the story, he was concerned by how much it might cost to get the rights to use music from an American film. I pointed out that the composer was Stanley Myers and that he was British, so it might be OK after all.  He was still doubtful, so I asked him if I could use his phone.  I opened my Filofax, phoned Stanley Myers and explained the problem.  He said it should be perfectly straightforward and not very expensive, asking for our people to contact his people for it to be sorted.  I told the producer that the composer is happy for it to be used and it won't be expensive.  The look of the others in the room was priceless when they realised I had just called a Hollywood composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their problem. For some reason I completely forgot to let them know that there wasn't another composer on the planet who I could have made such a call with.

On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively.  On a police drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a patrol car were bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle of the night when there is an explosion in a nearby factory.  Rather than leave absolute silence, I decided to subtly add quiet sounds which you might not normally be aware of.  Library 'atmos' recordings were trawled through, but without much success and even the much-used "distant dog" disk was far too prominent, so I used a portable DAT recorder to record some suitable stuff in the middle of the night such as a train passing three or four miles distant or occasional cars passing quite a long way away.  Distinct recordings of things with a lot of air between them and the microphone sound quite different to a conventional recording played quietly.  It worked well in the mix because when you half hear such things, you seem to listen that little bit harder to try and work out what's there, which means that when the explosion comes, you jump out of your seat.  The gram op eagerly offered to jump up and down at the back of the dubbing suite when the explosion happened to make it seem more powerful for the director, but I declined his kind offer.

Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more challenging in that respect because Phillip Saville was one of those directors who always wanted everything turned up to 11 all the time.  There were some scenes where I knew we needed a large dynamic range because of explosive effects or explosive dialogue, but if Phillip had had his way, there would have been no headroom for the loud parts to rise into.  I always used to print dubbing sheets, which had a linear timeline, typically showing two to three minutes per page, with each track laid out vertically and plenty of room for my notes.  It gave me a good oversight of what was coming up and helped me keep to schedule.  If I needed to leave room for a loud noise, I would mark my dubbing sheet to warn me at least thirty seconds ahead of that point within the story that I needed to hold the levels a bit lower than usual so that I could make an impact when needed. However, I found that I had to compensate by boosting the control room speakers by a corresponding amount so that Phillip didn't notice.  Once the loud bit had been mixed, there was then the problem of getting back to normal monitoring levels, however scenes such as that were generally the culmination of a build-up, so completing that scene was the ideal time for a quick tea break and normal monitoring levels could resume unnoticed.

Going back to "1917",  for those who haven't yet seen it, I thoroughly recommend it.  My local cinema relegated it to the upstairs screen with fabulously comfy seating for barely one hundred people.  There were only half a dozen other people there yesterday and they remained utterly silent throughout the movie.  I don't recall the last time I watched a movie without being distracted at some point by others in the cinema.  It was well worth a fiver of anybody's money.  I'm sure than any of us folk watching that movie would think countless times "How the hell did they do that?".  There are some YouTube<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vUBT6_CLF4> videos explaining much of it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first and only watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.

Alan Taylor
--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Feb 11 15:54:29 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:54:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Long shots
In-Reply-To: <b4a08741-2adb-a17c-0f29-9dd9c216a466@gmail.com>
References: <D99A3BEC-CC82-45BE-A322-928FB0DC5937@gmail.com>
	<6731763C-BE48-4D3F-BFF1-86571EFE4754@me.com>
	<65fe0486-a918-cb25-0541-65c1e9de1b6f@btinternet.com>
	<b4a08741-2adb-a17c-0f29-9dd9c216a466@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8af3cad5-ef56-3b1e-18da-20edf3772db8@btinternet.com>

Brilliant, but Joe Blogs, Mrs. Blogs and their mini-Blogs will sit there 
munching their take-aways and complaining that the program hasn't 
started yet! Still, we appreciate the craft behind it all. Cheers, Dave

On 11/02/2020 21:36, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
> And there's this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yaADxguP2Y
>
> Pick it up at 07.50
>
> B
>
>
>
> On 11/02/2020 20:46, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
>>
>> Many years ago there was a famous French film where the opening shot 
>> was a long zoom across the landscape ending up in a CU - this was 
>> long before modern tech. was available. I also loved the Youtube 
>> video about a long shot down a street from a drone and the 
>> cameraperson catching the drone and going indoors with it still 
>> shooting! Ain't tech. wonderful? Cheers, Dave
>>
>> On 11/02/2020 17:08, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>> There are several YouTube videos explaining how they shot the movie. 
>>> ?I linked to one of the better ones in my original posting and I'm 
>>> sure they would be fascinating to many on here. ?It was mentioned 
>>> that some takes were as long as six minutes, so there would have 
>>> been many edits in the movie, but of course it was cleverly done so 
>>> that they were virtually unnoticeable.
>>>
>>> One thing that you could see in the videos was how the camera was 
>>> sometimes mounted on motorised gimbals and slung below a one metre 
>>> length of scaffold tubing. ?They show sequences where the camera rig 
>>> starts off mounted on a huge motorised telescopic camera crane ( 
>>> Technocrane? ) and when it is swung down to near ground level, two 
>>> operators grab either end of the pole and smoothly lift it off the 
>>> mounting hooks so that they can continue the sequence running along 
>>> with the rig. ?There are a lot of sequences which appear to use 
>>> SteadyCam with a short jib arm to allow height changes while moving. 
>>> ?There is also a sequence in the ruined village at night where the 
>>> camera operator runs along and steps ono a motorised platform to 
>>> continue the shot travelling faster that would otherwise be possible.
>>>
>>> Incidentally, some people complained that the movie was relentless 
>>> and always on the move, but Sam Mendes explains that war is like 
>>> that. ?You can't go back, you have to keep moving onwards and that's 
>>> exactly the effect he was trying to achieve.
>>>
>>> When the main character swam along the river and climbed out, I 
>>> wondered how long his clothes would remain wet for, but chuckled 
>>> when the next scene showed him running through a forest in very 
>>> windy conditions. ?I assumed that they must have decided to use big 
>>> wind machines to create a drying wind to explain how his uniform 
>>> might dry so rapidly.
>>>
>>> There are also some interesting explanations about how the art 
>>> department created the trenches and the sheer scale of those sets. 
>>> ?One of the extras also tells about a single tree which was standing 
>>> near the action for the final big battle scene. ?The HoneyWagon was 
>>> quite some distance from the location and at least a hundred extras 
>>> urinated against that tree as a quicker option than trudging back to 
>>> the Honey Wagon. ?To their horror the final scene is of our hero 
>>> sitting down against that tree. ?They had no idea that the tree was 
>>> going to be used for such a prominent shot.
>>>
>>> Alan Taylor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 11 Feb . 16:11, Geoffrey Hawkes 
>>> <geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com <mailto:geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ? Well done Alan for the detailed and interesting message though 
>>>> some parts were foreign-speak to me as a cameraman.
>>>> My wife and I went to see the film about three weeks ago and we 
>>>> were really impressed. The film runs for about 2hrs and the reputed 
>>>> one-continuous shot thing puzzled me as to how it could be 
>>>> achieved. I wondered what happened if they got nearly to the end 
>>>> and something went wrong; would they have to start again from the 
>>>> top (groan, groan, imagine!!). I asked Ian Head, a veteran 
>>>> cameraman about this and he said all that meant was that it would 
>>>> have been done in a series of single shots, each with no cut-aways 
>>>> and involved a change of mounting, eg for high-angle shots. It 
>>>> worked well and I was thankful that none of them were the dreaded 
>>>> wobbly-cam style.
>>>> We saw it in IMAX at Jarman Park, Hemel Hempstead and had a choice 
>>>> of that, the later Super-Screen or good-old 2D. We sat about half 
>>>> way up the auditorium and wished we?d sat further back as the fast 
>>>> action shots from side to side sometimes had our heads buzzing.
>>>> What you said about the contrasting sound levels was perfectly true 
>>>> and the occasional loud bursts, like when the plane crashed had the 
>>>> shocking effect intended, adding to the reality of the wartime 
>>>> experience which is what it was all about. I had taken earplugs 
>>>> with me in case it was all loud as is so often the case nowadays 
>>>> and was glad not to need them.
>>>> I recommend anyone who hasn?t seen the film to go and see it in 
>>>> Superscreen or IMAX if you can, but don?t sit too near the screen 
>>>> unless you really want the dizzying effect,
>>>> Geoff
>>>>
>>>>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 
>>>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ? Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing 
>>>>> movies I've ever seen. ?Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about 
>>>>> the way that it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the 
>>>>> entire movie and of course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it. 
>>>>> ?However I was also impressed by the sound track. ?I don't ever 
>>>>> recall going to a film where silence has been such a prominent 
>>>>> feature, which is all the more surprising because the story set in 
>>>>> the middle of a battlefield and conventionally, such a movie would 
>>>>> have explosions and noises all the time. ?Having the courage to 
>>>>> pull the sound effects right back and only use them when needed 
>>>>> was a masterstroke because it draws you in to what is happening to 
>>>>> the main characters. ?Obviously by being quiet for extended 
>>>>> periods, it also offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the 
>>>>> audience with sudden loud noises.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to 
>>>>> exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I 
>>>>> worked on. ?In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded 
>>>>> about it, despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits 
>>>>> as well as loud bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends 
>>>>> to be uninteresting, while clever use of light and shade makes for 
>>>>> impressive pictures. ?For me the breakthrough came when I did a 
>>>>> Film Two drama ( shot on video ), "The Russian Soldier", which few 
>>>>> people now remember. ?The director was Gavin Millar and he liked 
>>>>> the idea of enhancing the narrative by exploiting silence. ?The 
>>>>> principle location was a farm in a remote part of Dorset and the 
>>>>> tense nature of the storyline meant that periods of silence worked 
>>>>> well, it drew your attention to subtle reactions by the actors, it 
>>>>> was as though you could almost hear the character's brains working 
>>>>> as events unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we 
>>>>> could easily hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask 
>>>>> everybody to leave them behind. ?There was scene where the 
>>>>> dialogue went from a barely audible whisper to the loudest 
>>>>> possible angry shout just a fraction of a second later. In order 
>>>>> to handle the dynamic range, I fed the microphone to two channels, 
>>>>> one set at a level for whispers, with the other set for the 
>>>>> screaming. ?The whisper channel was rapidly faded out on cue, 
>>>>> while the screaming channel was left up throughout. A second, more 
>>>>> distant microphone was also left faded up, which provided a touch 
>>>>> of room ambience to the shouting, which made it sound even louder. 
>>>>> This was in the days before split track recordings were feasible 
>>>>> on VT, so it was important to get it right on the recording. ?I 
>>>>> did take the precaution of making a safety recording on a Nagra, 
>>>>> but didn't need to use it. ?The scene was very emotional and the 
>>>>> actors didn't want to keep rehearsing it or shooting it, so after 
>>>>> a quick rehearsal, the red light went on and every take was 
>>>>> useable, retakes were only needed for performance reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat 
>>>>> concerned when Gavin started telling me about the music. ?He told 
>>>>> me that he had managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received 
>>>>> an Oscar for his score on The Deer Hunter. ?I was a young TV sound 
>>>>> supervisor and I initially felt somewhat intimidated by the 
>>>>> prospect of working with somebody of his stature and was worried 
>>>>> that he might be intending to deliver a massive orchestral music 
>>>>> score which would be at odds with the ideas I had for the sound 
>>>>> track, but when we started discussing it, we found ourselves in 
>>>>> complete agreement. ?I had experienced issues previously where 
>>>>> composers delivered music which largely obliterated important 
>>>>> dialogue and wanted to explain to him how I like the music and 
>>>>> dialogue to co-exist harmoniously, but needed to be diplomatic so 
>>>>> as not to cause offence. The comparison I made was with any 
>>>>> typical Frank Sinatra recording, especially those scored by Nelson 
>>>>> Riddle. ?What you think you hear is a massive orchestra giving all 
>>>>> they've got with Frank singing over the top if it. ?What actually 
>>>>> happens is that the orchestra gives everything they've got during 
>>>>> the intro, but when Frank sings, the only thing continuing behind 
>>>>> him is the rhythm section strumming along, with no strident 
>>>>> trumpets. His voice is always clearly heard. ?At the end of each 
>>>>> phrase, the orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the 
>>>>> brass section. The music weaves around the voice, never competing, 
>>>>> dropping away just in time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved 
>>>>> that comparison, especially as it was described in a way which 
>>>>> made perfect sense to a musician, so much so that he went on to 
>>>>> say that he proposed to pinch that comparison and use it during 
>>>>> his lectures on score writing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music 
>>>>> cue peak to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely. ?Obviously you 
>>>>> don't just leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on 
>>>>> and if the faders had been left alone, it would have been 
>>>>> perfectly usable. ?During one particularly emotional scene, the 
>>>>> music was barely peaking 1 and was borderline inaudible at times, 
>>>>> but that's exactly how he wanted it and it worked beautifully.
>>>>>
>>>>> As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production 
>>>>> meeting in Threshold House for another drama. ?During the small 
>>>>> talk prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that 
>>>>> they had cast an actor for a major role because she claimed she 
>>>>> could play the piano, which was only ?minor requirement for her 
>>>>> role, but that morning they discovered that the only tune she 
>>>>> could play was the theme from Deer Hunter and while that tune 
>>>>> would have been OK within the story, he was concerned by how much 
>>>>> it might cost to get the rights to use music from an American 
>>>>> film. I pointed out that the composer was Stanley Myers and that 
>>>>> he was British, so it might be OK after all. ?He was still 
>>>>> doubtful, so I asked him if I could use his phone. ?I opened my 
>>>>> Filofax, phoned Stanley Myers and explained the problem. ?He said 
>>>>> it should be perfectly straightforward and not very expensive, 
>>>>> asking for our people to contact his people for it to be sorted. 
>>>>> ?I told the producer that the composer is happy for it to be used 
>>>>> and it won't be expensive. ?The look of the others in the room was 
>>>>> priceless when they realised I had just called a Hollywood 
>>>>> composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their problem. For some 
>>>>> reason I completely forgot to let them know that there wasn't 
>>>>> another composer on the planet who I could have made such a call with.
>>>>>
>>>>> On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively. ?On a 
>>>>> police drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a 
>>>>> patrol car were bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle 
>>>>> of the night when there is an explosion in a nearby factory. 
>>>>> ?Rather than leave absolute silence, I decided to subtly add quiet 
>>>>> sounds which you might not normally be aware of. ?Library 'atmos' 
>>>>> recordings were trawled through, but without much success and even 
>>>>> the much-used "distant dog" disk was far too prominent, so I used 
>>>>> a portable DAT recorder to record some suitable stuff in the 
>>>>> middle of the night such as a train passing three or four miles 
>>>>> distant or occasional cars passing quite a long way away. 
>>>>> ?Distinct recordings of things with a lot of air between them and 
>>>>> the microphone sound quite different to a conventional recording 
>>>>> played quietly. ?It worked well in the mix because when you half 
>>>>> hear such things, you seem to listen that little bit harder to try 
>>>>> and work out what's there, which means that when the explosion 
>>>>> comes, you jump out of your seat. ?The gram op eagerly offered to 
>>>>> jump up and down at the back of the dubbing suite when the 
>>>>> explosion happened to make it seem more powerful for the director, 
>>>>> but I declined his kind offer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more 
>>>>> challenging in that respect because Phillip Saville was one of 
>>>>> those directors who always wanted everything turned up to 11 all 
>>>>> the time. ?There were some scenes where I knew we needed a large 
>>>>> dynamic range because of explosive effects or explosive dialogue, 
>>>>> but if Phillip had had his way, there would have been no headroom 
>>>>> for the loud parts to rise into. ?I always used to print dubbing 
>>>>> sheets, which had a linear timeline, typically showing two to 
>>>>> three minutes per page, with each track laid out vertically and 
>>>>> plenty of room for my notes. ?It gave me a good oversight of what 
>>>>> was coming up and helped me keep to schedule. ?If I needed to 
>>>>> leave room for a loud noise, I would mark my dubbing sheet to warn 
>>>>> me at least thirty seconds ahead of that point within the story 
>>>>> that I needed to hold the levels a bit lower than usual so that I 
>>>>> could make an impact when needed. However, I found that I had to 
>>>>> compensate by boosting the control room speakers by a 
>>>>> corresponding amount so that Phillip didn't notice. ?Once the loud 
>>>>> bit had been mixed, there was then the problem of getting back to 
>>>>> normal monitoring levels, however scenes such as that were 
>>>>> generally the culmination of a build-up, so completing that scene 
>>>>> was the ideal time for a quick tea break and normal monitoring 
>>>>> levels could resume unnoticed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Going back to "1917", ?for those who haven't yet seen it, I 
>>>>> thoroughly recommend it. ?My local cinema relegated it to the 
>>>>> upstairs screen with fabulously comfy seating for barely one 
>>>>> hundred people. ?There were only half a dozen other people there 
>>>>> yesterday and they remained utterly silent throughout the movie. 
>>>>> ?I don't recall the last time I watched a movie without being 
>>>>> distracted at some point by others in the cinema. ?It was well 
>>>>> worth a fiver of anybody's money. ?I'm sure than any of us folk 
>>>>> watching that movie would think countless times "How the hell did 
>>>>> they do that?". ?There are some YouTube 
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vUBT6_CLF4>?videos explaining 
>>>>> much of it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first 
>>>>> and only watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan Taylor
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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From relong at btinternet.com  Tue Feb 11 17:37:43 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 23:37:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Long shots
In-Reply-To: <65fe0486-a918-cb25-0541-65c1e9de1b6f@btinternet.com>
References: <D99A3BEC-CC82-45BE-A322-928FB0DC5937@gmail.com>
	<6731763C-BE48-4D3F-BFF1-86571EFE4754@me.com>
	<65fe0486-a918-cb25-0541-65c1e9de1b6f@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <741A49EE-2CF1-48C1-996A-D7A4423E30D5@btinternet.com>

Fyffe Robertsons reports for Tonight started tight on a 20-1 Angieneux Zoom and pulled back to a 10mm wide of the entire valley/city
Sometime 5 cable drums of cable were needed for his stick mic STC  3021.
War Games opener was on the back of a DR motorbike and the camera was lifted off and up a flight of stairs into the Town Hall.
All shot in the 60s on film.
V low tech.
In the late 80s Alan Clarke was doing entire 90 ? films on Steadicam with few cutaways.
Film was a lovely plastic medium.
What Sam has is an ultra plastic medium and unrivalled post production where practically anything can be achieved, and very creative craftsmen.
I  recorded two WW1 dramas for the Beeb
One a romance, one a gritty portrait of an alleged mutiny.
Design dug trenches in chalk for the first and in peat for the second, that was much more pragmatic, as it could flood if not pumped overnight, which was useful and the explosions from cast iron pots  always looked better, the ground shook.
I also did 10 yrs of War Walks History Docs on the Western Front and beyond.
We visited real trenches and Sapps revealed by building works and groundworks, all in amazing good order.
We did a lengthy interview with a sapper historian underground, the next week he died in a similar earthwork when the roof subsided.
We did a re creation of Gas attacks and the difficulties of deploying gas en masse, all very sobering from sending to receiving.
I really enjoyed the experience, if that is possible, mostly in the winter months with a terrific Brigadier presenter, most moving.
The most frightening image I saw was horses hanging in beech trees from blast and testimony from machine gunners on ridge emplacements mass killing at v long ranges.
Trench Hand to Hand and Raiding at night .
Impossible to render for TV .
1917 in a good cinema might.

> On 11 Feb 2020, at 20:46, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Many years ago there was a famous French film where the opening shot was a long zoom across the landscape ending up in a CU - this was long before modern tech. was available. I also loved the       Youtube video about a long shot down a street from a drone and the cameraperson catching the drone and going indoors with it still shooting! Ain't tech. wonderful? Cheers, Dave
> 
> On 11/02/2020 17:08, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>> There are several YouTube videos explaining how they shot the movie.  I linked to one of the better ones in my original posting and I'm sure they would be fascinating to many on here.  It was mentioned that some takes were as long as six minutes, so there would have been many edits in the movie, but of course it was cleverly done so that they were virtually unnoticeable.
>> 
>> One thing that you could see in the videos was how the camera was sometimes mounted on motorised gimbals and slung below a one metre length of scaffold tubing.  They show sequences where the camera rig starts off mounted on a huge motorised telescopic camera crane ( Technocrane? ) and when it is swung down to near ground level, two operators grab either end of the pole and smoothly lift it off the mounting hooks so that they can continue the sequence running along with the rig.  There are a lot of sequences which appear to use SteadyCam with a short jib arm to allow height changes while moving.  There is also a sequence in the ruined village at night where the camera operator runs along and steps ono a motorised platform to continue the shot travelling faster that would otherwise be possible.
>> 
>> Incidentally, some people complained that the movie was relentless and always on the move, but Sam Mendes explains that war is like that.  You can't go back, you have to keep moving onwards and that's exactly the effect he was trying to achieve.
>> 
>> When the main character swam along the river and climbed out, I wondered how long his clothes would remain wet for, but chuckled when the next scene showed him running through a forest in very windy conditions.  I assumed that they must have decided to use big wind machines to create a drying wind to explain how his uniform might dry so rapidly.
>> 
>> There are also some interesting explanations about how the art department created the trenches and the sheer scale of those sets.  One of the extras also tells about a single tree which was standing near the action for the final big battle scene.  The HoneyWagon was quite some distance from the location and at least a hundred extras urinated against that tree as a quicker option than trudging back to the Honey Wagon.  To their horror the final scene is of our hero sitting down against that tree.  They had no idea that the tree was going to be used for such a prominent shot.
>> 
>> Alan Taylor
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 11 Feb . 16:11, Geoffrey Hawkes <geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com <mailto:geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>>> ? Well done Alan for the detailed and interesting message though some parts were foreign-speak to me as a cameraman.
>>> My wife and I went to see the film about three weeks ago and we were really impressed. The film runs for about 2hrs and the reputed one-continuous shot thing puzzled me as to how it could be achieved. I wondered what happened if they got nearly to the end and something went wrong; would they have to start again from the top (groan, groan, imagine!!). I asked Ian Head, a veteran cameraman about this and he said all that meant was that it would have been done in a series of single shots, each with no cut-aways and involved a change of mounting, eg for high-angle shots. It worked well and I was thankful that none of them were the dreaded wobbly-cam style.
>>> We saw it in IMAX at Jarman Park, Hemel Hempstead and had a choice of that, the later Super-Screen or good-old 2D. We sat about half way up the auditorium and wished we?d sat further back as the fast action shots from side to side sometimes had our heads buzzing.
>>> What you said about the contrasting sound levels was perfectly true and the occasional loud bursts, like when the plane crashed had the shocking effect intended, adding to the reality of the wartime experience which is what it was all about. I had taken earplugs with me in case it was all loud as is so often the case nowadays and was glad not to need them.
>>> I recommend anyone who hasn?t seen the film to go and see it in Superscreen or IMAX if you can, but don?t sit too near the screen unless you really want the dizzying effect,
>>> Geoff
>>> 
>>>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ? Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing movies I've ever seen.  Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about the way that it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the entire movie and of course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it.  However I was also impressed by the sound track.  I don't ever recall going to a film where silence has been such a prominent feature, which is all the more surprising because the story set in the middle of a battlefield and conventionally, such a movie would have explosions and noises all the time.  Having the courage to pull the sound effects right back and only use them when needed was a masterstroke because it draws you in to what is happening to the main characters.  Obviously by being quiet for extended periods, it also offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the audience with sudden loud noises. 
>>>> 
>>>> It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I worked on.  In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded about it, despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits as well as loud bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to be uninteresting, while clever use of light and shade makes for impressive pictures.  For me the breakthrough came when I did a Film Two drama ( shot on video ), "The Russian Soldier", which few people now remember.  The director was Gavin Millar and he liked the idea of enhancing the narrative by exploiting silence.  The principle location was a farm in a remote part of Dorset and the tense nature of the storyline meant that periods of silence worked well, it drew your attention to subtle reactions by the actors, it was as though you could almost hear the character's brains working                         as events unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we could easily hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask everybody to leave them behind.  There was scene where the dialogue went from a barely audible whisper to the loudest possible angry shout just a fraction of a second later. In order to handle the dynamic range, I fed the microphone to two channels, one set at a level for whispers, with the other set for the screaming.  The whisper channel was rapidly faded out on cue, while the screaming channel was left up throughout. A second, more distant microphone was also left faded up, which provided a touch of room ambience to the shouting, which made it sound even louder. This was in the days before split track recordings were feasible on VT, so it was important to get it right on the recording.  I did take the precaution of making a safety recording on a Nagra, but didn't need to use it.  The scene was very emotional and the actors didn't want to keep rehearsing it or shooting it, so after a quick rehearsal, the red light went on and every take was useable, retakes were only needed for performance reasons.
>>>> 
>>>> I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat concerned when Gavin started telling me about the music.  He told me that he had managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an Oscar for his score on The Deer Hunter.  I was a young TV sound supervisor and I initially felt somewhat intimidated by the prospect of working with somebody of his stature and was worried that he might be intending to deliver a massive orchestral music score which would be at odds with the ideas I had for the sound track, but when we started discussing it, we found ourselves in complete agreement.  I had experienced issues previously where composers delivered music which largely obliterated important dialogue and wanted to explain to him how I like the music and dialogue to co-exist harmoniously, but needed to be diplomatic so as not to cause offence. The comparison I made was with any typical Frank Sinatra recording, especially those scored by Nelson Riddle.  What you think you hear is a massive orchestra giving all they've got with Frank singing over the top if it.  What actually happens is that the orchestra gives everything they've got during the intro, but when Frank sings, the only thing continuing behind him is the rhythm section strumming along, with no strident trumpets. His voice is always clearly heard.  At the end of each phrase, the orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the brass section. The music weaves around the voice, never competing, dropping away just in time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved that comparison, especially as it was described in a way which made perfect sense to a musician, so much so that he went on to say that he proposed to pinch that comparison and use it during his lectures on score writing.  
>>>> 
>>>> Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue peak to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely.  Obviously you don't just leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if the faders had been left alone, it would have been perfectly usable.  During one particularly emotional scene, the music was barely peaking 1 and was borderline inaudible at times, but that's exactly how he wanted it and it worked beautifully.
>>>> 
>>>> As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production meeting in Threshold House for another drama.  During the small talk prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that they had cast an actor for a major role because she claimed she could play the piano, which was only  minor requirement for her role, but that morning they discovered that the only tune she could play was the theme from Deer Hunter and while that tune would have been OK within the story, he was concerned by how much it might cost to get the rights to use music from an American film. I pointed out that the composer was Stanley Myers and that he was British, so it might be OK after all.  He was still doubtful, so I asked him if I could use his phone.  I opened my Filofax, phoned Stanley Myers and explained the problem.  He said it should be perfectly straightforward and not very expensive, asking for our people to contact his people for it to be sorted.  I told the producer that the composer is happy for it to be used and it won't be expensive.  The look of the others in the room was priceless when they realised I had just called a Hollywood composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their problem. For some reason I completely forgot to let them know that there wasn't another composer on the planet who I could have made such a call with.
>>>> 
>>>> On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively.  On a police drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a patrol car were bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle of the night when there is an explosion in a nearby factory.  Rather than leave absolute                         silence, I decided to subtly add quiet sounds which you might not normally be aware of.  Library 'atmos' recordings were trawled through, but without much success and even the much-used "distant dog" disk was far too prominent, so I used a portable DAT recorder to record some suitable stuff in the middle of the night such as a train passing three or four miles distant or occasional cars passing quite a long way away.  Distinct recordings of things with a lot of air between them and the microphone sound quite different to a conventional recording played quietly.  It worked well in the mix because when you half hear such things, you seem to listen that little bit harder to try and work out what's there, which means that when the explosion comes, you jump out of your seat.  The gram op eagerly offered to jump up and down at the back of the dubbing suite when the explosion happened to make it seem more powerful for the director, but I declined his kind offer.
>>>> 
>>>> Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more challenging in that respect because Phillip Saville was one of those directors who always wanted everything turned up to 11 all the time.  There were some scenes where I knew we needed a large dynamic range because of explosive effects or explosive dialogue, but if Phillip had had his way, there would have been no headroom for the loud parts to rise into.  I always used to print dubbing sheets, which had a linear timeline, typically showing two to three minutes per page, with each track laid out vertically and plenty of room for my notes.  It gave me a good oversight of what was coming up and helped me keep to schedule.  If I needed to leave room for a loud noise, I would mark my dubbing sheet to warn me at least thirty seconds ahead of that point within the                         story that I needed to hold the levels a bit lower than usual so that I could make an impact when needed. However, I found that I had to compensate by boosting the control room speakers by a corresponding amount so that Phillip didn't notice.  Once the loud bit had been mixed, there was then the problem of getting back to normal monitoring levels, however scenes such as that were generally the culmination of a build-up, so completing that scene was the ideal time for a quick tea break and normal monitoring levels could resume unnoticed.
>>>> 
>>>> Going back to "1917",  for those who haven't yet seen it, I thoroughly recommend it.  My local cinema relegated it to the upstairs screen with fabulously comfy seating for barely one hundred people.  There were only half a dozen other people there yesterday and they remained utterly silent throughout the movie.  I don't recall the last time I watched a movie without being distracted at some point by others in the cinema.  It was well worth a fiver of anybody's money.  I'm sure than any of us folk watching that movie would think countless times "How the hell did they do that?".  There are some YouTube <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vUBT6_CLF4> videos explaining much of it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first and only watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.
>>>> 
>>>> Alan Taylor
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From mibridge at mac.com  Tue Feb 11 17:49:16 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 23:49:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
In-Reply-To: <72BC8F74-A07A-4E86-A82C-E2D3D5DAD6CE@me.com>
References: <72BC8F74-A07A-4E86-A82C-E2D3D5DAD6CE@me.com>
Message-ID: <BB2148F8-4CD6-4DBB-8D0C-1AB363D305BD@mac.com>

Dorking Halls has one small film screen and a slightly larger one in regular use and they occasionally use the main hall, but the prices are very reasonable but not as low as ?5. If you are a ?friend? you get a reduced price and four free tickets per year. We saw 1917 in the smaller area, but it lost nothing for that and was totally gripping, even if a couple of plot lines stretched credibility a bit far. It actually seemed to arrest the pop-corn brigade and there was total concentration, with most staying for the credits. 
My reaction early on was that it was rather like live telly, in the sense that there must have been an awful lot of rehearsal to get cameras, main and incidental action in sync. The overwhelming sense for me was that we were going with the action, not just watching it. 

Mike G

> On 11 Feb 2020, at 21:28, Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> The Odeon, Banbury charges ?5 per reserved seat ( no concession prices ) for most 2D movies other than certain  blockbusters, or ?5.75 if you book online.  Screen 2, upstairs has the comfiest seats, but the others are good.  You can see the prices for yourself online if you want. 
> 
> John Craven lives near me and when I was working with him one day, he explained that he likes to go to afternoon ?silver screenings? for seniors, where the prices are even lower. 
> 
> As Screen 2 tends to show less popular movies, or movies that have been out for a while, it?s rarely crowded and the audiences are usually very well behaved, some even staying to watch all the credits  - much to the annoyance of the staff who want to lock up and go home. When we went to see the David Copperfield film last Monday evening, we were the only couple in the entire cinema, so we relocated to the super comfy premium seats just to check out what they were like. 
> 
> It?s not a multiplex, it only has two screens, therefore the choice of movies is limited, but they?re just starting to build a new multiplex in town which should bring a bit of competition. 
> 
> As if that wasn?t enough, there is a council car park directly outside the front door of the cinema with free parking after 19:00 and we usually find plenty of spaces there. 
> 
> Life in the sticks does have some advantages. 
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
> 
>>> On 11 Feb 2020, at 20:39, dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> Lovely e-mail, Alan, but where on earth can you see a film in comfy seats for ?5? Our nearest multi-screen complex in Kingston charges at least ?15 for a reclining duo-seat with footrest and food tray so you can have a nice glass of red stuff and even a slice of pizza! Why people have to eat their meals in a cinema is beyond me!  The last 007 film I went to see was totally ruined by the moron in the next seat dipping into his bucket of popcorn every few seconds at regular intervals throughout the whole film, in my peripheral vision. When we were in New Zealand, we went to a lovely cinema. A helicopter pilot had spent 10 years filming the Southern Alps and built a cinema to show his movie. You could have afternoon tea and watch the glory of the landscape in comfort, that was acceptable eating in a cinema, popcorn etc. isn't! End of rant! Cheers, Dave
>> 
>> ,On 11/02/2020 11:24, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Last night I went to see 1917 and it was one of the most amazing movies I've ever seen.  Much has been said ( quite rightly ) about the way that it appeared to be one single continuous shot for the entire movie and of course the DoP was awarded an Oscar for it.  However I was also impressed by the sound track.  I don't ever recall going to a film where silence has been such a prominent feature, which is all the more surprising because the story set in the middle of a battlefield and conventionally, such a movie would have explosions and noises all the time.  Having the courage to pull the sound effects right back and only use them when needed was a masterstroke because it draws you in to what is happening to the main characters.  Obviously by being quiet for extended periods, it also offers the sound mixer more scope to shock the audience with sudden loud noises. 
>>> 
>>> It's something which is very close to my heart because I tried to exploit quietness and dynamic range in a number of dramas which I worked on.  In many cases the director wasn't easily persuaded about it, despite me pointing out that symphonies have quiet bits as well as loud bits, or that in television, flat lighting tends to be uninteresting, while clever use of light and shade makes for impressive pictures.  For me the breakthrough came when I did a Film Two drama ( shot on video ), "The Russian Soldier", which few people now remember.  The director was Gavin Millar and he liked the idea of enhancing the narrative by exploiting silence.  The principle location was a farm in a remote part of Dorset and the tense nature of the storyline meant that periods of silence worked well, it drew your attention to subtle reactions by the actors, it was as though you could almost hear the character's brains working as events unfolded. To give you an idea of how quiet it was, we could easily hear the crew's wrist watches ticking, so had to ask everybody to leave them behind.  There was scene where the dialogue went from a barely audible whisper to the loudest possible angry shout just a fraction of a second later. In order to handle the dynamic range, I fed the microphone to two channels, one set at a level for whispers, with the other set for the screaming.  The whisper channel was rapidly faded out on cue, while the screaming channel was left up throughout. A second, more distant microphone was also left faded up, which provided a touch of room ambience to the shouting, which made it sound even louder. This was in the days before split track recordings were feasible on VT, so it was important to get it right on the recording.  I did take the precaution of making a safety recording on a Nagra, but didn't need to use it.  The scene was very emotional and the actors didn't want to keep rehearsing it or shooting it, so after a quick rehearsal, the red light went on and every take was useable, retakes were only needed for performance reasons.
>>> 
>>> I was feeling really happy with what we shot, but was somewhat concerned when Gavin started telling me about the music.  He told me that he had managed to engage Stanley Myers, who had received an Oscar for his score on The Deer Hunter.  I was a young TV sound supervisor and I initially felt somewhat intimidated by the prospect of working with somebody of his stature and was worried that he might be intending to deliver a massive orchestral music score which would be at odds with the ideas I had for the sound track, but when we started discussing it, we found ourselves in complete agreement.  I had experienced issues previously where composers delivered music which largely obliterated important dialogue and wanted to explain to him how I like the music and dialogue to co-exist harmoniously, but needed to be diplomatic so as not to cause offence. The comparison I made was with any typical Frank Sinatra recording, especially those scored by Nelson Riddle.  What you think you hear is a massive orchestra giving all they've got with Frank singing over the top if it.  What actually happens is that the orchestra gives everything they've got during the intro, but when Frank sings, the only thing continuing behind him is the rhythm section strumming along, with no strident trumpets. His voice is always clearly heard.  At the end of each phrase, the orchestra kicks in at full volume, especially the brass section. The music weaves around the voice, never competing, dropping away just in time for Frank's next line. Stanley loved that comparison, especially as it was described in a way which made perfect sense to a musician, so much so that he went on to say that he proposed to pinch that comparison and use it during his lectures on score writing.  
>>> 
>>> Stanley came to the dub and said that if I make the first music cue peak to about 3, the rest will all fit nicely.  Obviously you don't just leave the faders alone, but he was essentially bang-on and if the faders had been left alone, it would have been perfectly usable.  During one particularly emotional scene, the music was barely peaking 1 and was borderline inaudible at times, but that's exactly how he wanted it and it worked beautifully.
>>> 
>>> As an aside, the day after that dub, I was doing a pre-production meeting in Threshold House for another drama.  During the small talk prior to the meeting starting, the producer mentioned that they had cast an actor for a major role because she claimed she could play the piano, which was only  minor requirement for her role, but that morning they discovered that the only tune she could play was the theme from Deer Hunter and while that tune would have been OK within the story, he was concerned by how much it might cost to get the rights to use music from an American film. I pointed out that the composer was Stanley Myers and that he was British, so it might be OK after all.  He was still doubtful, so I asked him if I could use his phone.  I opened my Filofax, phoned Stanley Myers and explained the problem.  He said it should be perfectly straightforward and not very expensive, asking for our people to contact his people for it to be sorted.  I told the producer that the composer is happy for it to be used and it won't be expensive.  The look of the others in the room was priceless when they realised I had just called a Hollywood composer, had a friendly chat and resolved their problem. For some reason I completely forgot to let them know that there wasn't another composer on the planet who I could have made such a call with.
>>> 
>>> On other dubs, I was also able to use silence creatively.  On a police drama, the story starts with a scene where officers in a patrol car were bored out of their minds, parked up in the middle of the night when there is an explosion in a nearby factory.  Rather than leave absolute silence, I decided to subtly add quiet sounds which you might not normally be aware of.  Library 'atmos' recordings were trawled through, but without much success and even the much-used "distant dog" disk was far too prominent, so I used a portable DAT recorder to record some suitable stuff in the middle of the night such as a train passing three or four miles distant or occasional cars passing quite a long way away.  Distinct recordings of things with a lot of air between them and the microphone sound quite different to a conventional recording played quietly.  It worked well in the mix because when you half hear such things, you seem to listen that little bit harder to try and work out what's there, which means that when the explosion comes, you jump out of your seat.  The gram op eagerly offered to jump up and down at the back of the dubbing suite when the explosion happened to make it seem more powerful for the director, but I declined his kind offer.
>>> 
>>> Dubbing "The Life and Loves of a She Devil" was much more challenging in that respect because Phillip Saville was one of those directors who always wanted everything turned up to 11 all the time.  There were some scenes where I knew we needed a large dynamic range because of explosive effects or explosive dialogue, but if Phillip had had his way, there would have been no headroom for the loud parts to rise into.  I always used to print dubbing sheets, which had a linear timeline, typically showing two to three minutes per page, with each track laid out vertically and plenty of room for my notes.  It gave me a good oversight of what was coming up and helped me keep to schedule.  If I needed to leave room for a loud noise, I would mark my dubbing sheet to warn me at least thirty seconds ahead of that point within the story that I needed to hold the levels a bit lower than usual so that I could make an impact when needed. However, I found that I had to compensate by boosting the control room speakers by a corresponding amount so that Phillip didn't notice.  Once the loud bit had been mixed, there was then the problem of getting back to normal monitoring levels, however scenes such as that were generally the culmination of a build-up, so completing that scene was the ideal time for a quick tea break and normal monitoring levels could resume unnoticed.
>>> 
>>> Going back to "1917",  for those who haven't yet seen it, I thoroughly recommend it.  My local cinema relegated it to the upstairs screen with fabulously comfy seating for barely one hundred people.  There were only half a dozen other people there yesterday and they remained utterly silent throughout the movie.  I don't recall the last time I watched a movie without being distracted at some point by others in the cinema.  It was well worth a fiver of anybody's money.  I'm sure than any of us folk watching that movie would think countless times "How the hell did they do that?".  There are some YouTube videos explaining much of it, but I would strongly advise watching the movie first and only watching the "how they did it" videos afterwards.
>>> 
>>> Alan Taylor
>>> 
>>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From tonynuttall at me.com  Wed Feb 12 03:03:02 2020
From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 09:03:02 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] My Favorite ONE SHOT Film
Message-ID: <47ff0bb6-cb33-464c-a85b-e063ec4e5dc0@me.com>

I bet the cameraman & the chap who carried the Video Recorder were a bit knackered
by the end of the single shot with the pressure of a no chance "lets do it again." No
special ?invisible edits here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV1kphEEXn8

Tony N.
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Wed Feb 12 03:31:05 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 09:31:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] My Favorite ONE SHOT Film
In-Reply-To: <47ff0bb6-cb33-464c-a85b-e063ec4e5dc0@me.com>
References: <47ff0bb6-cb33-464c-a85b-e063ec4e5dc0@me.com>
Message-ID: <64EE16FD-3A4C-49AB-8C78-1791F523B8D5@icloud.com>

IIRC they did do one retake, stopped and did a retart after a couple of minutes but once into it they just had to plough on.

Longest single shot I?ve done was about 15 minutes, single camera coverage of a live set by The Darkness to feed the close-up monitors for the audience. Director didn?t just want a shot of the lead singer but the instrumental breaks and dance routines and all the transitions usable as it was going to be repeated on MTV. Ad lib with no rehearsal!

? 
Graeme Wall


> On 12 Feb 2020, at 09:03, William Nuttall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I bet the cameraman & the chap who carried the Video Recorder were a bit knackered
> by the end of the single shot with the pressure of a no chance "lets do it again." No
> special  invisible edits here!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV1kphEEXn8
> 
> Tony N.
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From nick at nickway.co.uk  Wed Feb 12 04:41:29 2020
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 10:41:29 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] My Favorite ONE SHOT Film
In-Reply-To: <64EE16FD-3A4C-49AB-8C78-1791F523B8D5@icloud.com>
References: <47ff0bb6-cb33-464c-a85b-e063ec4e5dc0@me.com>
	<64EE16FD-3A4C-49AB-8C78-1791F523B8D5@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <1914701583.10537.1581504089145@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From david.jasma at sky.com  Wed Feb 12 05:32:52 2020
From: david.jasma at sky.com (David Buckley)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 11:32:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] My  favourite one shot take and 1917
References: <2040250912.3195097.1581507172683.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2040250912.3195097.1581507172683@mail.yahoo.com>

Some friends of ours went on a cruise which took in St. Petersburg?s Hermitage Museum. When they came back, they lent me the DVD of the Russian Ark, which had a very interesting 'How they did it' video on it.
The video recorder was a box of hard drives on wheels which was 'hard wired' to the camera and was pushed around to follow the camera during the shoot. The end result is take three after two false starts.
Here in Dumfries, the local Odeon closed not so long ago. However, we have a very pleasant council run 60 seater cinema which produces a programme? every month covering a wide range of films. 

Later this month, 1917 is on 13 times over nine days, so my wife and I are hoping to get along to see it. Prices vary a bit - normally ?7.50 but can hit ?12 for specials such as 42nd Street which we saw end of last year. The cinema ran 2001 last year for a few days (with an interval), and it was a pleasure to see the film again without being blown out of my seat by the sound level, which was one of the complaints about the Odeon. In fact, I had forgotten how good 2001 was on the big screen!
Dave Buckley
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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 12 06:53:02 2020
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 12:53:02 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Audio recordings of Vera at TVT on 13th January 1974
Message-ID: <003e01d5e1a3$5c696eb0$153c4c10$@gmail.com>

Among the bags and boxes containing the large collection of audio tapes that
belonged to Alan Kerridge and which I agreed to take when his house was
being cleared last year, are two 10inch spools in their original EMI boxes
of the Vera Lynn show at TV theatre on 13th January 1974.

These are copies of the master and have the vocal on track one and the
orchestra on track 2 (standard procedure at the time, no doubt). There's no
indication on them as to who the Sound supervisor or Tape & Grams operator
was and I wondered if it was any of you or if you know who it was? If so and
you would like to have the tapes, you would be welcome. The boxes show signs
of age but I'm sure the tapes themselves will be as good as new. The rest of
the collection is still waiting for me to catalogue before offering them to
the National Sound or anyone else who wants them. I will circulate the list
when eventually it's done.

 

Presently I'm busy transferring my old vinyl LP's and singles onto digital
using a friend's ION USB turntable with the EZ Vinyl converter and Audacity
software to convert the resulting WAV files to MP3, while editing out the
worst of the clicks in the process. A tedious but worthwhile task which some
of you may have gone through or have a better solution.

Listening to the records from the sixties and seventies carries much
nostalgia and memories with it, some happy, some sad and makes me wonder
where the years have gone. Again, I'm sure you know what I mean,

 

Geoff Hawkes

 

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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Wed Feb 12 07:52:40 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 13:52:40 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Audio recordings of Vera at TVT on 13th January 1974
In-Reply-To: <003e01d5e1a3$5c696eb0$153c4c10$@gmail.com>
References: <003e01d5e1a3$5c696eb0$153c4c10$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <138C31CCB47A46A48854AAE19270D142@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

I worked on that one Geoff and see from my diary that Hugh Barker was the SS. Sadly I have no note of the gram op.

Best wishes,

Dave Newbitt.

From: geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 12:53 PM
To: tech1 at Tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: [Tech1] Audio recordings of Vera at TVT on 13th January 1974

Among the bags and boxes containing the large collection of audio tapes that belonged to Alan Kerridge and which I agreed to take when his house was being cleared last year, are two 10inch spools in their original EMI boxes of the Vera Lynn show at TV theatre on 13th January 1974.

These are copies of the master and have the vocal on track one and the orchestra on track 2 (standard procedure at the time, no doubt). There?s no indication on them as to who the Sound supervisor or Tape & Grams operator was and I wondered if it was any of you or if you know who it was? If so and you would like to have the tapes, you would be welcome. The boxes show signs of age but I?m sure the tapes themselves will be as good as new. The rest of the collection is still waiting for me to catalogue before offering them to the National Sound or anyone else who wants them. I will circulate the list when eventually it?s done.

 

Presently I?m busy transferring my old vinyl LP?s and singles onto digital using a friend?s ION USB turntable with the EZ Vinyl converter and Audacity software to convert the resulting WAV files to MP3, while editing out the worst of the clicks in the process. A tedious but worthwhile task which some of you may have gone through or have a better solution.

Listening to the records from the sixties and seventies carries much nostalgia and memories with it, some happy, some sad and makes me wonder where the years have gone. Again, I?m sure you know what I mean,

 

Geoff Hawkes

 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave at davesound.co.uk  Wed Feb 12 08:07:26 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 14:07:26 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Audio recordings of Vera at TVT on 13th January 1974
In-Reply-To: <138C31CCB47A46A48854AAE19270D142@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <003e01d5e1a3$5c696eb0$153c4c10$@gmail.com>
	<138C31CCB47A46A48854AAE19270D142@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <58412bfff6dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <138C31CCB47A46A48854AAE19270D142 at DESKTOP6GGCRV1>,
   David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I worked on that one Geoff and see from my diary that Hugh Barker was
> the SS. Sadly I have no note of the gram op.

At one time Hugh Barker and Tony Philpot (as grams) seemed to be joined at
the hip, shows wise. But by 74, Tony was an SS?

-- 
*If your feet smell and your nose runs, you're built upside down.

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From dave at davesound.co.uk  Wed Feb 12 08:20:01 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 14:20:01 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] My Favorite ONE SHOT Film
In-Reply-To: <1914701583.10537.1581504089145@email.ionos.co.uk>
References: <1914701583.10537.1581504089145@email.ionos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <58412d26b2dave@davesound.co.uk>

I worked on a few shows which were one shot. But being ITV, this meant
only about 10 minutes. On one, we rehearsed for a day and a half before
even putting the camera on it. But had it in the can early day 3, and
wrapped very early that week.

Also remember doing a scene all in one. In a disco. The director was very
concerned that it sounded (and looked) realistic. Shouting over the very
loud music and into ears etc. So I was willing to give it a try with the
music running full belt. Did check he was happy with the music choice
first and the part of the track. 

It worked very well indeed. All on a couple of booms, with a small bleed
of another stereo mike for ambience.

In the edit, the editor decided to go between two takes... He couldn't
understand why we'd done it the way we had. ;-)

-- 
*Broken pencils are pointless.*

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Wed Feb 12 08:33:46 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 14:33:46 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Audio recordings of Vera at TVT on 13th January 1974
In-Reply-To: <58412bfff6dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <003e01d5e1a3$5c696eb0$153c4c10$@gmail.com><138C31CCB47A46A48854AAE19270D142@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<58412bfff6dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <EC9CA131CFC944DE83B8FF3FA0FC283C@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

I can see how Tony Philpott would come to mind but I think Dave Plowman is 
right that he was probably an SS by then - he certainly did an episode of Z 
Cars in that capacity on March 21st/22nd of that year.

Dave Newbitt.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 2:07 PM
To: tech1 at Tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Audio recordings of Vera at TVT on 13th January 1974

In article <138C31CCB47A46A48854AAE19270D142 at DESKTOP6GGCRV1>,
   David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I worked on that one Geoff and see from my diary that Hugh Barker was
> the SS. Sadly I have no note of the gram op.

At one time Hugh Barker and Tony Philpot (as grams) seemed to be joined at
the hip, shows wise. But by 74, Tony was an SS?

-- 
*If your feet smell and your nose runs, you're built upside down.

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Feb 12 08:36:52 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 14:36:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Audio recordings of Vera at TVT on 13th January 1974
In-Reply-To: <003e01d5e1a3$5c696eb0$153c4c10$@gmail.com>
References: <003e01d5e1a3$5c696eb0$153c4c10$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5e440d84.1c69fb81.ecbaa.6013@mx.google.com>

I would have said that if Adrian Kerridge had these tapes, they could have originated from Lansdowne or CTS. The BBC labels suggest that they were recorded ?in house? Was the Music Studio in the spur up and running then?
Certainly split track recording was  standard from as long ago as 1966.
Geoff ? before disposing of the tapes to whoever, please contact Charles Norton, a young chap that looks after BBC Archive stuff and is grateful for anything to save.
candjnorton at yahoo.com
0116 2290558

Message copied to him.

Best
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1
Sent: 12 February 2020 12:53
To: tech1 at Tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Audio recordings of Vera at TVT on 13th January 1974

Among the bags and boxes containing the large collection of audio tapes that belonged to Alan Kerridge and which I agreed to take when his house was being cleared last year, are two 10inch spools in their original EMI boxes of the Vera Lynn show at TV theatre on 13th January 1974.
These are copies of the master and have the vocal on track one and the orchestra on track 2 (standard procedure at the time, no doubt). There?s no indication on them as to who the Sound supervisor or Tape & Grams operator was and I wondered if it was any of you or if you know who it was? If so and you would like to have the tapes, you would be welcome. The boxes show signs of age but I?m sure the tapes themselves will be as good as new. The rest of the collection is still waiting for me to catalogue before offering them to the National Sound or anyone else who wants them. I will circulate the list when eventually it?s done.

Geoff Hawkes


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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Feb 12 10:20:05 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 16:20:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
In-Reply-To: <BB2148F8-4CD6-4DBB-8D0C-1AB363D305BD@mac.com>
References: <72BC8F74-A07A-4E86-A82C-E2D3D5DAD6CE@me.com>
	<BB2148F8-4CD6-4DBB-8D0C-1AB363D305BD@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5e4425b5.1c69fb81.abf65.6abf@mx.google.com>

I didn?t think that the sound in the (Dorking) main hall was that good, but since I went some time ago, things might have been done in the way of acoustic treatment!
Saw ?42nd Street? at The Capitol, Horsham on Bob Foley?s advice, and the projection and sound was perfect. OK the seats were ?12.50, and slightly raked, but tilted back so one was quite relaxed looking up at the screen!
We were allowed to take in a plastic glass of wine, but no burgers or popcorn on offer, thank goodness.
Pat
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Mike Giles via Tech1
Sent: 11 February 2020 23:49
To: Alan Taylor
Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence

Dorking Halls has one small film screen and a slightly larger one in regular use and they occasionally use the main hall, but the prices are very reasonable but not as low as ?5. If you are a ?friend? you get a reduced price and four free tickets per year. We saw 1917 in the smaller area, but it lost nothing for that and was totally gripping, even if a couple of plot lines stretched credibility a bit far. It actually seemed to arrest the pop-corn brigade and there was total concentration, with most staying for the credits.?
My reaction early on was that it was rather like live telly, in the sense that there must have been an awful lot of rehearsal to get cameras, main and incidental action in sync. The overwhelming sense for me was that we were going with the action, not just watching it.?

Mike G



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From waresound at msn.com  Wed Feb 12 13:06:11 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 19:06:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
In-Reply-To: <5e4425b5.1c69fb81.abf65.6abf@mx.google.com>
References: <72BC8F74-A07A-4E86-A82C-E2D3D5DAD6CE@me.com>
	<BB2148F8-4CD6-4DBB-8D0C-1AB363D305BD@mac.com>,
	<5e4425b5.1c69fb81.abf65.6abf@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB027171950D23D3AAC033D3B0A71B0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I always thought the Dorking Hall acoustics were pretty dreadful. Great big rectangular box, lots of reflective glass and no proscenium arch. My Dad was a friend of Ralph Vaughan Williams, and during his Choral Society concert rehearsals we sometimes used to chat with him over afternoon tea. Of course, it could be that they?ve fixed the acoustics since then. RVW died in 1958 and Dad died in 1972, and I haven?t been in there since then!
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 12 Feb 2020, at 16:20, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
I didn?t think that the sound in the (Dorking) main hall was that good, but since I went some time ago, things might have been done in the way of acoustic treatment!
Saw ?42nd Street? at The Capitol, Horsham on Bob Foley?s advice, and the projection and sound was perfect. OK the seats were ?12.50, and slightly raked, but tilted back so one was quite relaxed looking up at the screen!
We were allowed to take in a plastic glass of wine, but no burgers or popcorn on offer, thank goodness.
Pat
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Mike Giles via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 11 February 2020 23:49
To: Alan Taylor<mailto:alanaudio at me.com>
Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence

Dorking Halls has one small film screen and a slightly larger one in regular use and they occasionally use the main hall, but the prices are very reasonable but not as low as ?5. If you are a ?friend? you get a reduced price and four free tickets per year. We saw 1917 in the smaller area, but it lost nothing for that and was totally gripping, even if a couple of plot lines stretched credibility a bit far. It actually seemed to arrest the pop-corn brigade and there was total concentration, with most staying for the credits.
My reaction early on was that it was rather like live telly, in the sense that there must have been an awful lot of rehearsal to get cameras, main and incidental action in sync. The overwhelming sense for me was that we were going with the action, not just watching it.

Mike G



--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Wed Feb 12 16:09:14 2020
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 22:09:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Audio recordings of Vera at TVT on 13th January 1974
In-Reply-To: <58412bfff6dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <003e01d5e1a3$5c696eb0$153c4c10$@gmail.com>
	<138C31CCB47A46A48854AAE19270D142@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<58412bfff6dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <e9991de9-d87a-99a0-7feb-02c4703b0cff@howell61.f9.co.uk>

Tony Philpot and I became ss's in May 1973.

John H.


On 12/02/2020 14:07, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> In article <138C31CCB47A46A48854AAE19270D142 at DESKTOP6GGCRV1>,
>     David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> I worked on that one Geoff and see from my diary that Hugh Barker was
>> the SS. Sadly I have no note of the gram op.
> At one time Hugh Barker and Tony Philpot (as grams) seemed to be joined at
> the hip, shows wise. But by 74, Tony was an SS?
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Feb 12 17:14:54 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 23:14:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] long shots
In-Reply-To: <1914701583.10537.1581504089145@email.ionos.co.uk>
References: <47ff0bb6-cb33-464c-a85b-e063ec4e5dc0@me.com>
	<64EE16FD-3A4C-49AB-8C78-1791F523B8D5@icloud.com>
	<1914701583.10537.1581504089145@email.ionos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c707e875-abd6-51fc-814f-1f48c5d2826b@btinternet.com>

I think I have mentioned before that Mike Bond (creator of Paddington 
Bear - if you didn't already know!), SC on crew 17 , had the most 
amazing long-shot during the first 17 pages of the script of 'Poor 
Bitos' in Riverside Studios. I was there! Cheers, Dave

On 12/02/2020 10:41, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote:
> Not Film but Telly.
> I was on my Camera Attachment on Crew 5 in 1980. The play was "The Lad 
> Himself".
> The Director, Alistair Clark (I've just looked at BBC Genome), had 
> obviously spent a long time on the Camera script with many shots. So 
> Jim said: "We'll do the opening shot of the whisky glass on me, take 
> the establishing shot on two, then the rest on one... son!"
> I stayed close to Jim holding his released camera cable (EMI 2001) for 
> the next twenty minutes as he moved around the small BBC Dressing Room 
> set on his traditional wide. It was a privilege and has always stayed 
> in my mind.
> With best wishes,
> Nick Way
>> On 12 February 2020 at 09:31 Graeme Wall via Tech1 < 
>> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> IIRC they did do one retake, stopped and did a retart after a couple 
>> of minutes but once into it they just had to plough on.
>>
>> Longest single shot I?ve done was about 15 minutes, single camera 
>> coverage of a live set by The Darkness to feed the close-up monitors 
>> for the audience. Director didn?t just want a shot of the lead singer 
>> but the instrumental breaks and dance routines and all the 
>> transitions usable as it was going to be repeated on MTV. Ad lib with 
>> no rehearsal!
>>
>> ?
>> Graeme Wall
>>
>>
>>> On 12 Feb 2020, at 09:03, William Nuttall via Tech1 < 
>>> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I bet the cameraman & the chap who carried the Video Recorder were a 
>>> bit knackered
>>> by the end of the single shot with the pressure of a no chance "lets 
>>> do it again." No
>>> special invisible edits here!
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV1kphEEXn8
>>>
>>> Tony N.
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From doug.prior at talktalk.net  Wed Feb 12 17:37:22 2020
From: doug.prior at talktalk.net (doug prior)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 23:37:22 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Audio recordings of Vera at TVT on 13th January 1974
In-Reply-To: <e9991de9-d87a-99a0-7feb-02c4703b0cff@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <003e01d5e1a3$5c696eb0$153c4c10$@gmail.com>
	<138C31CCB47A46A48854AAE19270D142@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<58412bfff6dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<e9991de9-d87a-99a0-7feb-02c4703b0cff@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1581550657.905991.tech1_tech-ops.co.uk@tech-ops.co.uk>

I seem to recall Neil Glyn-Wilkinson working with Hugh in the early 70`s

Doug Prior

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From mibridge at mac.com  Wed Feb 12 18:00:06 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 00:00:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB027171950D23D3AAC033D3B0A71B0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VI1P192MB027171950D23D3AAC033D3B0A71B0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <E5831B73-8616-4DAD-985F-4CFA367D519B@mac.com>

That?s the main hall you?re referring to I presume, Nick - I?ve never heard any serious music in there and the in-house crew they use for other stuff are not always up to much. I?ve had serious words with their ?technical manage? who got the job because he was involved in school productions! When I first met him after they totally ruined a Stage Coach production (lots of kids and teenagers, but they deserved better) I actually thought he was still a schoolboy.  Any professional show worth its salt, and even some amateurs, bring in their own crew. We?ve been to several shows at the New Victoria in Woking, which is bigger, but they still manage to cock-up the sound sometimes - the Carole King musical had dire sound, which surprised me, because I would have thought the show handled everything. Can?t recall which the other poor ones have been, but certainly more than one other 

But I don?t think the likes of Dorking Halls have much say over cinema sound - they?re not even allowed to tweak the volume - the franchise chain sets up the audio and that?s the way it?s supposed to stay. It?s absolutely true to say that it doesn?t match a big auditorium, but because it?s cosy it seems OK. On one occasion we were the only two people in, so I asked the usherette if we needed to sit through the adverts and she got the projectionist to start about ten minutes in. She also brought free coffee to us in proper cups! You don?t get that service at The Odeon. 

Mike G

> On 12 Feb 2020, at 19:06, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? I always thought the Dorking Hall acoustics were pretty dreadful. Great big rectangular box, lots of reflective glass and no proscenium arch. My Dad was a friend of Ralph Vaughan Williams, and during his Choral Society concert rehearsals we sometimes used to chat with him over afternoon tea. Of course, it could be that they?ve fixed the acoustics since then. RVW died in 1958 and Dad died in 1972, and I haven?t been in there since then!
> Cheers,
> Nick.
> 
> Sent from my iPad mini 5
> 
>>> On 12 Feb 2020, at 16:20, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>> ?
>> I didn?t think that the sound in the (Dorking) main hall was that good, but since I went some time ago, things might have been done in the way of acoustic treatment!
>> Saw ?42nd Street? at The Capitol, Horsham on Bob Foley?s advice, and the projection and sound was perfect. OK the seats were ?12.50, and slightly raked, but tilted back so one was quite relaxed looking up at the screen!
>> We were allowed to take in a plastic glass of wine, but no burgers or popcorn on offer, thank goodness.
>> Pat
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: Mike Giles via Tech1
>> Sent: 11 February 2020 23:49
>> To: Alan Taylor
>> Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Movie 1917 - The sound of silence
>>  
>> Dorking Halls has one small film screen and a slightly larger one in regular use and they occasionally use the main hall, but the prices are very reasonable but not as low as ?5. If you are a ?friend? you get a reduced price and four free tickets per year. We saw 1917 in the smaller area, but it lost nothing for that and was totally gripping, even if a couple of plot lines stretched credibility a bit far. It actually seemed to arrest the pop-corn brigade and there was total concentration, with most staying for the credits. 
>> My reaction early on was that it was rather like live telly, in the sense that there must have been an awful lot of rehearsal to get cameras, main and incidental action in sync. The overwhelming sense for me was that we were going with the action, not just watching it. 
>>  
>> Mike G
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Thu Feb 13 03:29:44 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 09:29:44 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] The perils of being freelamce in TV
Message-ID: <3005292B-966E-4CF8-A3E9-4A3611C93C80@icloud.com>

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51475520>

Tell me about it!
? 
Graeme Wall




From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Feb 13 06:50:01 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 12:50:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] The perils of being freelamce in TV
In-Reply-To: <3005292B-966E-4CF8-A3E9-4A3611C93C80@icloud.com>
References: <3005292B-966E-4CF8-A3E9-4A3611C93C80@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <4598C63A-407B-46AC-9EC9-89A495B70AE9@me.com>

I've freelanced for more than 30 years now since leaving the BBC.  Obviously clients don't feel responsible for us in the way that the BBC did when we were staff, but on the other hand, my clients are still thriving today and employing me, which is more than I could say for the BBC.

There are principally two sorts of freelance engagements.  One is where they specifically want YOU, the other is where they just want to engage somebody to to that job.  Obviously the first type are the ones we most value, while the others pay the bills.  That in itself isn't unusual anyway because it happened in the BBC too, where producers would request specific people for their shows.  My good friend Dave Beaven used to tell me to always remember that when a producer requests you by name, it's not because you're the best, it's because they reckon that there might be others who are even worse than you.

One of the hassles in the freelance world is getting paid on time.  Some clients are notorious for trying to delay payments for 90-120 days, which is totally unacceptable. I declined working for such clients and now all my regular clients pay in around 30 - 40 days without needing to be reminded. I also went through a period of turning down repeat bookings from clients who were unpleasant to work with.  The end result was a form of natural selection where my regular bookings were all with clients who were lovely to work with.  Reducing hassle in your life is always a good thing.

There is also the thorny topic of getting paid the going rate.  I've always insisted that I don't work for reduced rates and have turned down many jobs for that reason.  I feel very strongly that if you don't maintain your daily rate, it will be eroded.  I did a series of motoring shows for Channel 5 where the production manager was keen to get everybody to work for a lower rate, but I stood my ground and got paid in full.  On one occasion there were two car launches which needed to be covered simultaneously, one was in Sweden and the other in the Black Forest.  I was asked to choose one and get another recordist to do the other.  I chose Sweden and asked a friend to do the Black Forest, warning him that they would try and get him to work below the rate, but insisted that if he stuck to his guns he would get the same rate.  He did that job and agreed to do further work on the series at a much lower rate.  Obviously I was really pissed off by that and never passed on any further work to him. He bought an SQN mixer and gun mic specially to do that show and further shoots on the series, but he briefly left his kit on the ground during that first shoot and one of the production team reversed a car over his kit.  I think I might be forgiven for having enjoyed a moment of schadenfreude. 

I had anticipated going freelance for some time before I actually left the BBC. I knew that there would be no real job security and therefore I would have to make my finances resilient if work turned out to be scarce.  In the BBC, I did a lot of work with the producer Richard Bates, who was the son of the author H.E.Bates.  Richard used to tell me how as a child he had been brought up in the freelance world because his father got paid irregularly.  Richard was the first one to tell me that freelancing is either feast or famine.  He explained that you're either earning so much that you don't know what to do with all the money, or else you're broke and desperately hoping for the phone to ring.  At that time I was doing a lot of drama work in the BBC and earning rather a lot of money because I was on the highest grade which attracted overtime payments and many dramas involved massive over-runs.  Many of my colleagues were spending their money on posh cars, super HiFi, upmarket cameras or exotic holidays.  Instead, I paid off as much of my mortgage as possible so that by the time I left the BBC, I only had a tiny mortgage outstanding and that was entirely paid off a few years later. A key aspect of making my finances resilient was to minimise my monthly bills so that if the income dried up, I would still be OK.  As it happened, I was being over cautious, but I'm not really one for having lots of possessions anyway. I prefer to spend my money on enjoyable experiences.  If the money was rolling in, I would buy things for cash and if it dried up, I knew I could cruise along for an extended period without any worries.

It's also important to remember that freelancers don't get sick pay.  If you can't work, nobody pays you.  Therefore you need contingency plans in case of illness or injury.  It's a general principle in life that nobody owes you any favours and that's especially true as a freelancer. You only get engagements if the client believes you are going to provide some sort of added value.  I once had a conversation with Richard Yeowart, the managing director of Arena Television.  He was convinced that freelancers were trying to screw his company, while I knew that some freelancers felt that facility companies were trying to screw freelancers.  I explained to Richard that he can only able to make money from his fleet of trucks if he is able to attract competent freelancers.  Equally, freelancers can only make a living while clients are able to profitably operate their OB vehicles.  Freelancers can't screw the clients because we need them to be able to earn sensible returns on their investment or else there would be no OB trucks.  Clients can't get away with screwing the freelancers either, because if we can't make a living operating those trucks, we will go off and make a living doing something else.  The client supplies the facilities, while the freelancers supply the operational skills and they are mutually dependent. 

Obviously there are stresses in the freelance world, just as there were within the BBC, the major difference being that it's pretty well up to the individual to deal with them and you probably won't get support from any company.  As far as job security goes, there is none.  If the phone doesn't ring, you don't get any work, so it's important to work for multiple clients if you possibly can.  Near the start of my freelance career, I did a hell of a lot of mixing for Molinaire OBs, which went on to become VMTV and now NEP Visions.  There was so much work on offer that I didn't need to chase other clients.  The ITV franchises were going to be auctioned off in 1991 and few ITV companies were commissioning programmes in the run up that date because they didn't know whether they would get renewed franchises.  The whole business quietened down because of that uncertainty. At the same time, VMTV took on additional staff, which meant that they didn't need as many freelancers as before and as a result, in 1990 - 91, my work drastically shrunk to about 30% of what it had been the year before.  Fortunately it subsequently resumed at it's previous level, partly because I then was working for a wider client base.

The bottom line for freelancers is is don't put all your eggs in one basket.  Something quite innocuous can drastically alter the amount of work you get from one particular client.  After the problems of 1991, I deliberately widened my client base so that no individual client accounted for more than 30-35% of my work.  In that way, if one client goes tits up, the impact is limited because I still have the other clients.

Alan Taylor



On 13 Feb 2020, at 13 Feb . 09:29, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51475520>
> 
> Tell me about it!
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Thu Feb 13 09:08:02 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 15:08:02 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Long Takes.(Not Long Shots)
Message-ID: <23977F63-C3D6-462A-A488-347DEC9F1B60@vincent68.plus.com>

Touch of Evil, OrsonWelles does it for me. No computer wizardry and some good ?Ready when you are Mr de Mille ? back stories

John V

Sent from my iPad


From dave at davesound.co.uk  Thu Feb 13 09:59:51 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 15:59:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] The perils of being freelamce in TV
In-Reply-To: <4598C63A-407B-46AC-9EC9-89A495B70AE9@me.com>
References: <4598C63A-407B-46AC-9EC9-89A495B70AE9@me.com>
Message-ID: <5841ba20d2dave@davesound.co.uk>

I well remember one job fairly early on in my freelance days. Got a call
out of the blue from Anglia TV. They wanted a recordist for inserts to
their networked religious prog, which were to be shot mainly at the Tower
of London with a couple of other locations within a mile or so.

I quoted my daily rate based on what Thames TV paid. Was told they were a
regional company and don't pay London rates. So the conversation ended
there and then. I wasn't desperate for the work.

They phoned back the next day and agreed my rate. Meaning they couldn't
find anyone else.

They also asked me to supply transport. To take the sound gear they
supplied between locations - the camera man would take it to the first
one. No problem since If parking was provided, I'd drive there anyway. As
it was a very early start.

And was told to keep quiet about my rate to others on the crew. 

I enjoyed the shoot which went well - but was surprised to find I was
expected to take the three presenters between locations too. As the camera
vehicle was full. Luckily I'd made sure my insurance was OK for this
before. But was even more surprised when they expected to be taken to the
station on wrap. In the evening rush hour. Since they'd all been nice, I
did. In the same way as I'd have given a colleague a lift if needed. But
wasn't happy it was expected.

-- 
*Shin: a device for finding furniture in the dark *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 13 11:06:20 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 17:06:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] disorganised recce
Message-ID: <fdc3adef-d0fc-be01-c31f-90a15c412c01@gmail.com>

Hi All

It's been a while since lunch, so I expect we're getting hungry. Somehow 
we didn't manage Christmas, so I thought we'd find a date in January, 
but other things here got in the way (go to hospital for twelve hours, 
go away with an infection that takes a month to get rid of).

Also the last couple of visits I've done to the Hornimans have been a 
touch unsatisfactory, one way and another, so I've been recceing 
alternative places. Actually it didn't take long. We've been to the 
Doggett's Coat and Badge, by Blackfriars Bridge, before, a few years 
ago. It was my first stop today, and like last time I was welcomed by 
very helpful people offering? a large comfortable area. The second place 
on my list - a Wetherspoon's - turned out to be in Cannon Street 
station, right next to the platforms - not at all suitable. I got on a 
train home.

So - I don't know if anyone has any recommendations, if you have please 
speak now.? I plan to book DC and B in early March, unless any better 
ideas are forthcoming.

cheers

B

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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Thu Feb 13 11:10:51 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 17:10:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] The perils of being freelamce in TV
In-Reply-To: <5841ba20d2dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <4598C63A-407B-46AC-9EC9-89A495B70AE9@me.com>
	<5841ba20d2dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c64816be-8e6a-997b-61f6-ee90af5480dc@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 13/02/2020 15:59, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> ...
>
> They phoned back the next day and agreed my rate. Meaning they couldn't
> find anyone else.
>
> ...

While I was moving into equipment design some time back, I still did the 
occasional day's sound recording for mates.

A local TV company rang one day and asked if I could do a day the next 
morning. Yes, but they'd previously been unwilling to pay my sensible 
rate, and when I reiterated that they went away. Late that afternoon 
they came back ... and said they would pay after all - obviously nobody 
else available. Great, I said, but it was too late for me to get the kit 
now. OK, we'll find what you need and send it over to you this evening. 
Fine - no problem.

Eventually, at midnight, a courier bike roared up with the gear, having 
driven some 150 miles to collect and deliver it.

The job must have eventually cost them three times the going rate - if 
only they had agreed to pay proper money in the first place.

Chris Woolf



From waresound at msn.com  Thu Feb 13 11:43:46 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 17:43:46 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] The perils of being freelance in TV
In-Reply-To: <5841ba20d2dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <4598C63A-407B-46AC-9EC9-89A495B70AE9@me.com>,
	<5841ba20d2dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271818E9587BC5D8A4ADE47A71A0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

One of my best moments was after I?d been doing a lot of fairly gory medical training videos for a company called ?Medicine?. One of their directors, who knew me well, got booked for a job with another similar production company, and asked them to book me for his first job with them. I got a call, and I quoted my same day and kit rate as Medicine. ?OK, that?s fine?, the lady said, and it was all agreed. ?We?ll fax a call sheet over to you?. A few hours later she called again: ?As we don?t know you, we need your CV, and would a 20% introductory discount be possible?? I thought I?d heard everything, but I hadn?t had that one before! I said: ?Er, excuse me, but no it wouldn?t, because I come to you recommended by the director you?ve chosen, and as I know nothing about you, maybe I should be asking for your CV, and while we?re about it, money up front.?
I put the phone down on her. But as it turned out we went on to have a long and happy working relationship thereafter. Sometimes if you meet cheek with cheek, they cancel out.
I?ve always said freelancing in this industry is 20% know-how, and 80% psychology.
Cheers,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 13 Feb 2020, at 16:03, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I well remember one job fairly early on in my freelance days. Got a call
> out of the blue from Anglia TV. They wanted a recordist for inserts to
> their networked religious prog, which were to be shot mainly at the Tower
> of London with a couple of other locations within a mile or so.
> 
> I quoted my daily rate based on what Thames TV paid. Was told they were a
> regional company and don't pay London rates. So the conversation ended
> there and then. I wasn't desperate for the work.
> 
> They phoned back the next day and agreed my rate. Meaning they couldn't
> find anyone else.
> 
> They also asked me to supply transport. To take the sound gear they
> supplied between locations - the camera man would take it to the first
> one. No problem since If parking was provided, I'd drive there anyway. As
> it was a very early start.
> 
> And was told to keep quiet about my rate to others on the crew. 
> 
> I enjoyed the shoot which went well - but was surprised to find I was
> expected to take the three presenters between locations too. As the camera
> vehicle was full. Luckily I'd made sure my insurance was OK for this
> before. But was even more surprised when they expected to be taken to the
> station on wrap. In the evening rush hour. Since they'd all been nice, I
> did. In the same way as I'd have given a colleague a lift if needed. But
> wasn't happy it was expected.
> 
> -- 
> *Shin: a device for finding furniture in the dark *
> 
>    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From relong at btinternet.com  Thu Feb 13 12:18:32 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 18:18:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] The perils of being freelamce in TV
In-Reply-To: <c64816be-8e6a-997b-61f6-ee90af5480dc@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <4598C63A-407B-46AC-9EC9-89A495B70AE9@me.com>
	<5841ba20d2dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<c64816be-8e6a-997b-61f6-ee90af5480dc@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2D4D1410-C64A-46BA-B117-2A2293ABFC10@btinternet.com>

In Bristol Film Unit ,we were all made redundant in 92,  Tech Ops and OBs suffered major redundancies.
Many were dismayed at rejection from the Beeb, it was almost a job for life.
We hadn?t had a FU Manager for a while after our terrific boss left to form Films @ Bristol.
The next appointee from TFS left sharpish when he realised his job was to shut us down.
We then had a ex Camera man from Tyne Tees TV as manager.
He left before we were disbanded.
The OB Rigger Drivers knew our fate because  they  never painted BBC Bristol on the new ?3million Scanner.
It was a desultory experience , especially the final days when we were negotiating the sale of our equipment from Engineering Dept.
They would not sell us our Nagras, or the crystals in our Microns, because they were BBC frequencies!
We explained we would certainly be servicing BBC programmes and eventually they recinded the order.
A cameraman from Glasgow was on attachment to us, when he returned to Glasgow he saw his complete Arri SR channel in the skip!
He had bought a Volvo Estate from BBC Bristol Transport, but the cheque was never cashed?.
It was chaos, like Dunkirk.
At a final unit party in the office I meandered through  a desk and came upon a pile of freelance invoices for film shoots.
The daily sums were 3 times what we were paid, the scales fell from my eyes.
I had seen the Birtian light.

Roger

(I only got my Nagra when I later went to Tech Stores and asked for it, They had left the batteries in , they had rotted and destroyed the compartment. They replaced it at Kudelski and then I bought it.)

> On 13 Feb 2020, at 17:10, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> On 13/02/2020 15:59, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
>> ...
>> 
>> They phoned back the next day and agreed my rate. Meaning they couldn't
>> find anyone else.
>> 
>> ...
> 
> While I was moving into equipment design some time back, I still did the occasional day's sound recording for mates.
> 
> A local TV company rang one day and asked if I could do a day the next morning. Yes, but they'd previously been unwilling to pay my sensible rate, and when I reiterated that they went away. Late that afternoon they came back ... and said they would pay after all - obviously nobody else available. Great, I said, but it was too late for me to get the kit now. OK, we'll find what you need and send it over to you this evening. Fine - no problem.
> 
> Eventually, at midnight, a courier bike roared up with the gear, having driven some 150 miles to collect and deliver it.
> 
> The job must have eventually cost them three times the going rate - if only they had agreed to pay proper money in the first place.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 13 14:21:39 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 20:21:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW: Peter and the Wolf
Message-ID: <f0d558d8-4d39-ede1-6a5e-34b2bf731fae@gmail.com>

Re: [Tech1] My Favorite ONE SHOT Film.eml

Subject:
Re: [Tech1] My Favorite ONE SHOT Film
From:
Stanley Appel <tv_dir at hotmail.co.uk>
Date:
13/02/2020, 17:32

To:
Dave Plowman <dave at davesound.co.uk>
CC:
"tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>


Anyone out there who worked with me on ?Peter and the Wolf??
We did the half hour programme in one take.
No invisible cuts or hand overs. Where is our Oscar?!!!!!

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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Feb 13 15:01:28 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 21:01:28 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] The perils of being freelamce in TV
In-Reply-To: <c64816be-8e6a-997b-61f6-ee90af5480dc@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <4598C63A-407B-46AC-9EC9-89A495B70AE9@me.com>
	<5841ba20d2dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<c64816be-8e6a-997b-61f6-ee90af5480dc@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <54868C76-1EC4-4EBA-9291-A2796061C42A@me.com>

In that same spirit of doing it cheaply and spending vastly more.

In 1996 I was asked if I would work as a recordist on inserts for The Girlie show, which was fronted by Sara Cox.  Those inserts were for a feature called "Men Behaving Sadly", although we were under strict instructions never to use that phrase when in the presence of our interviewee.  The one I first worked on was a couple of tragic guys who were enthusiastic tractor spotters .  It transpired that the production team had hired kit and a car. travelled to east Anglia to interview the guys, operating the camera and sound themselves.   When they got back, both the pictures and sound were found to be totally unusable.  They then rearranged a re-shoot, hired the car and gear again and got useable pictures but the sound was still no good.  That's when I was booked for the third attempt and we got it sorted, but the inexperience of the directer and researcher / cameraman was all too obvious.  

The shoot was outdoors in January and we were wasting a lot of time. I could see that the sun was going to set soon and pointed out to the director that in 20-30 minutes, we will lose the light, so we need to crack on.  His first reaction was "How can you be so sure?".  I told him that it has happened that way every day since Stonehenge was built and didn't expect it to suddenly change today.  Instead of pulling his finger out and getting stuff in the can, he decided to discuss which shots he most wanted to do. I took the initiative and said that we need to quickly shoot all the wide angle shots because we can light close ups ( after a fashion ) and could voice-over parts of the interview that haven't yet been shot, but wide angle shots need to be done in daylight.  He could see the sense in that and we did get the job done.  Even the production team realised in hindsight that they could have done the shoot for half the price by doing it just the once using professionals, but they insisted that they had learned from their mistakes, so it could be regarded as money well spent.

The next week, I was booked again, but still without a proper cameraman.  The researcher / cameraman set up his lights and then started repositioning the camera to get an interesting angle for the interview of a guy who had a huge collection of spark plugs.  Being in the days of Yoof television, where standards were near non-existent and novelty was everything, it had to be "different and sexy".  He eventually settled on a shot which was very low angle with the camera moved some distance from it's original position, almost shooting the interviewee in profile.  He asked me if I was ready and I asked him if HE was ready.  He asked why I asked in that way because he was obviously ready.  I explained that he had moved so far from his original position that the key light and the fill were both on the same side of the lens.  "Does that matter?" he asked.  I said that it was rather unconventional, but he was the cameraman and could light it any way he chose.  He then asked where I would suggest putting the lights ( I did have a thought about where he could shove his lights, but decided keep quiet - besides the lamps were rather hot by then and he wouldn't have been able to sit down for some time ).  I repositioned the lamps so that the key was one one side with the fill the other, while the weird shooting angle allowed me to put in a small backlight to highlight the hair, which would have been tricky to do with the limited kit we had within the small room if he had stuck with the traditional head-on angle.

I did quite a few of these inserts for them and each one was a painful demonstration of why people need to employ professionals.  What made it worse was that mistakes were made one week and then a different researcher / cameraman came out the next week and made pretty well the same mistakes all over again again because they kept quiet about any problems back in the office.  As far as the talk in the office was concerned, that first shoot was unfortunate but all the other shoots went like clockwork. 

Alan Taylor
 


On 13 Feb 2020, at 13 Feb . 17:10, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> 
> On 13/02/2020 15:59, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
>> ...
>> 
>> They phoned back the next day and agreed my rate. Meaning they couldn't
>> find anyone else.
>> 
>> ...
> 
> While I was moving into equipment design some time back, I still did the occasional day's sound recording for mates.
> 
> A local TV company rang one day and asked if I could do a day the next morning. Yes, but they'd previously been unwilling to pay my sensible rate, and when I reiterated that they went away. Late that afternoon they came back ... and said they would pay after all - obviously nobody else available. Great, I said, but it was too late for me to get the kit now. OK, we'll find what you need and send it over to you this evening. Fine - no problem.
> 
> Eventually, at midnight, a courier bike roared up with the gear, having driven some 150 miles to collect and deliver it.
> 
> The job must have eventually cost them three times the going rate - if only they had agreed to pay proper money in the first place.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Thu Feb 13 16:10:09 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 22:10:09 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] The perils of being freelamce in TV
In-Reply-To: <54868C76-1EC4-4EBA-9291-A2796061C42A@me.com>
References: <4598C63A-407B-46AC-9EC9-89A495B70AE9@me.com><5841ba20d2dave@davesound.co.uk><c64816be-8e6a-997b-61f6-ee90af5480dc@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<54868C76-1EC4-4EBA-9291-A2796061C42A@me.com>
Message-ID: <7745E5D979C243A0B5D040F25222EA27@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Alan - you really should consider comedy script writing as an extra string 
to the bow! A genuine message point plus real wit which reminds me of some 
of the hilarious stuff John Bird did for Punch magazine years ago. 
Brilliant!

Dave Newbitt.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 9:01 PM
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] The perils of being freelamce in TV

In that same spirit of doing it cheaply and spending vastly more.

In 1996 I was asked if I would work as a recordist on inserts for The Girlie 
show, which was fronted by Sara Cox.  Those inserts were for a feature 
called "Men Behaving Sadly", although we were under strict instructions 
never to use that phrase when in the presence of our interviewee.  The one I 
first worked on was a couple of tragic guys who were enthusiastic tractor 
spotters .  It transpired that the production team had hired kit and a car. 
travelled to east Anglia to interview the guys, operating the camera and 
sound themselves.   When they got back, both the pictures and sound were 
found to be totally unusable.  They then rearranged a re-shoot, hired the 
car and gear again and got useable pictures but the sound was still no good. 
That's when I was booked for the third attempt and we got it sorted, but the 
inexperience of the directer and researcher / cameraman was all too obvious.

The shoot was outdoors in January and we were wasting a lot of time. I could 
see that the sun was going to set soon and pointed out to the director that 
in 20-30 minutes, we will lose the light, so we need to crack on.  His first 
reaction was "How can you be so sure?".  I told him that it has happened 
that way every day since Stonehenge was built and didn't expect it to 
suddenly change today.  Instead of pulling his finger out and getting stuff 
in the can, he decided to discuss which shots he most wanted to do. I took 
the initiative and said that we need to quickly shoot all the wide angle 
shots because we can light close ups ( after a fashion ) and could 
voice-over parts of the interview that haven't yet been shot, but wide angle 
shots need to be done in daylight.  He could see the sense in that and we 
did get the job done.  Even the production team realised in hindsight that 
they could have done the shoot for half the price by doing it just the once 
using professionals, but they in
sisted that they had learned from their mistakes, so it could be regarded as 
money well spent.

The next week, I was booked again, but still without a proper cameraman. 
The researcher / cameraman set up his lights and then started repositioning 
the camera to get an interesting angle for the interview of a guy who had a 
huge collection of spark plugs.  Being in the days of Yoof television, where 
standards were near non-existent and novelty was everything, it had to be 
"different and sexy".  He eventually settled on a shot which was very low 
angle with the camera moved some distance from it's original position, 
almost shooting the interviewee in profile.  He asked me if I was ready and 
I asked him if HE was ready.  He asked why I asked in that way because he 
was obviously ready.  I explained that he had moved so far from his original 
position that the key light and the fill were both on the same side of the 
lens.  "Does that matter?" he asked.  I said that it was rather 
unconventional, but he was the cameraman and could light it any way he 
chose.  He then asked where I would sug
gest putting the lights ( I did have a thought about where he could shove 
his lights, but decided keep quiet - besides the lamps were rather hot by 
then and he wouldn't have been able to sit down for some time ).  I 
repositioned the lamps so that the key was one one side with the fill the 
other, while the weird shooting angle allowed me to put in a small backlight 
to highlight the hair, which would have been tricky to do with the limited 
kit we had within the small room if he had stuck with the traditional 
head-on angle.

I did quite a few of these inserts for them and each one was a painful 
demonstration of why people need to employ professionals.  What made it 
worse was that mistakes were made one week and then a different researcher / 
cameraman came out the next week and made pretty well the same mistakes all 
over again again because they kept quiet about any problems back in the 
office.  As far as the talk in the office was concerned, that first shoot 
was unfortunate but all the other shoots went like clockwork.

Alan Taylor



On 13 Feb 2020, at 13 Feb . 17:10, Chris Woolf via Tech1 
<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

>
> On 13/02/2020 15:59, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
>> ...
>>
>> They phoned back the next day and agreed my rate. Meaning they couldn't
>> find anyone else.
>>
>> ...
>
> While I was moving into equipment design some time back, I still did the 
> occasional day's sound recording for mates.
>
> A local TV company rang one day and asked if I could do a day the next 
> morning. Yes, but they'd previously been unwilling to pay my sensible 
> rate, and when I reiterated that they went away. Late that afternoon they 
> came back ... and said they would pay after all - obviously nobody else 
> available. Great, I said, but it was too late for me to get the kit now. 
> OK, we'll find what you need and send it over to you this evening. Fine - 
> no problem.
>
> Eventually, at midnight, a courier bike roared up with the gear, having 
> driven some 150 miles to collect and deliver it.
>
> The job must have eventually cost them three times the going rate - if 
> only they had agreed to pay proper money in the first place.
>
> Chris Woolf
>
>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 



From waresound at msn.com  Thu Feb 13 16:42:53 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 22:42:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW: Peter and the Wolf
In-Reply-To: <f0d558d8-4d39-ede1-6a5e-34b2bf731fae@gmail.com>
References: <f0d558d8-4d39-ede1-6a5e-34b2bf731fae@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02711F86449232BFE6F263A4A71A0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

And wasn?t there a Rudolph Cartier production of Galileo all shot on one continuous Mole-mounted cam, Frank Wilkins, and starring Leo McKern as Galileo? A huge monestary set in TC1, and I think the first time we had an Angenieux 10:1 lens.
Where?s Frank?s posthumous Oscar? I think he deserved that anyway, whatever.
Cheers,
N.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

On 13 Feb 2020, at 20:22, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

?
Re: [Tech1] My Favorite ONE SHOT Film.eml

Subject:
Re: [Tech1] My Favorite ONE SHOT Film
From:
Stanley Appel <tv_dir at hotmail.co.uk><mailto:tv_dir at hotmail.co.uk>
Date:
13/02/2020, 17:32
To:
Dave Plowman <dave at davesound.co.uk><mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk>
CC:
"tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk"<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk><mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>


Anyone out there who worked with me on ?Peter and the Wolf??
We did the half hour programme in one take.
No invisible cuts or hand overs. Where is our Oscar?!!!!!



--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From relong at btinternet.com  Thu Feb 13 17:34:38 2020
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 23:34:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] The perils of being freelamce in TV
In-Reply-To: <7745E5D979C243A0B5D040F25222EA27@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <4598C63A-407B-46AC-9EC9-89A495B70AE9@me.com>
	<5841ba20d2dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<c64816be-8e6a-997b-61f6-ee90af5480dc@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<54868C76-1EC4-4EBA-9291-A2796061C42A@me.com>
	<7745E5D979C243A0B5D040F25222EA27@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <2FE83EA4-E995-4A83-BCA9-3621B8C12320@btinternet.com>

After I left I had numerous gigs with novice BBC Director/Shooters, they genuinely didn?t have a bleeding clue.Shooting on a Sony PD150 which was feeble in low light and prone to wobulation extremis.
Did one whole evening of v personal actuality /interview on the hoof lit entirely by candle light in a Cotswold Cottage, nothing came out.
They only called me in if they thought they could not cope with sound coverage, which was often.
I was called to Bristol Childrens Hospital for an early  delicate shoot and I met a researcher who was doing the sound, she was in tears and couldn?t cope with 2 radios and boom in an operating theatre.
This was common.
It is possible to shoot docs one man band, but it requires a simple technique and planning, not just jumping in the deep end.
A sound man is useful cover for the camera, an extra pair of eyes in dodgy situations.
The old maxim was the sound man should look and the cameraman listen.
Who needs that when reinventing the wheel.
R

> On 13 Feb 2020, at 22:10, David Newbitt via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Alan - you really should consider comedy script writing as an extra string to the bow! A genuine message point plus real wit which reminds me of some of the hilarious stuff John Bird did for Punch magazine years ago. Brilliant!
> 
> Dave Newbitt.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2020 9:01 PM
> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] The perils of being freelamce in TV
> 
> In that same spirit of doing it cheaply and spending vastly more.
> 
> In 1996 I was asked if I would work as a recordist on inserts for The Girlie show, which was fronted by Sara Cox.  Those inserts were for a feature called "Men Behaving Sadly", although we were under strict instructions never to use that phrase when in the presence of our interviewee.  The one I first worked on was a couple of tragic guys who were enthusiastic tractor spotters .  It transpired that the production team had hired kit and a car. travelled to east Anglia to interview the guys, operating the camera and sound themselves.   When they got back, both the pictures and sound were found to be totally unusable.  They then rearranged a re-shoot, hired the car and gear again and got useable pictures but the sound was still no good. That's when I was booked for the third attempt and we got it sorted, but the inexperience of the directer and researcher / cameraman was all too obvious.
> 
> The shoot was outdoors in January and we were wasting a lot of time. I could see that the sun was going to set soon and pointed out to the director that in 20-30 minutes, we will lose the light, so we need to crack on.  His first reaction was "How can you be so sure?".  I told him that it has happened that way every day since Stonehenge was built and didn't expect it to suddenly change today.  Instead of pulling his finger out and getting stuff in the can, he decided to discuss which shots he most wanted to do. I took the initiative and said that we need to quickly shoot all the wide angle shots because we can light close ups ( after a fashion ) and could voice-over parts of the interview that haven't yet been shot, but wide angle shots need to be done in daylight.  He could see the sense in that and we did get the job done.  Even the production team realised in hindsight that they could have done the shoot for half the price by doing it just the once using professionals, but they in
> sisted that they had learned from their mistakes, so it could be regarded as money well spent.
> 
> The next week, I was booked again, but still without a proper cameraman. The researcher / cameraman set up his lights and then started repositioning the camera to get an interesting angle for the interview of a guy who had a huge collection of spark plugs.  Being in the days of Yoof television, where standards were near non-existent and novelty was everything, it had to be "different and sexy".  He eventually settled on a shot which was very low angle with the camera moved some distance from it's original position, almost shooting the interviewee in profile.  He asked me if I was ready and I asked him if HE was ready.  He asked why I asked in that way because he was obviously ready.  I explained that he had moved so far from his original position that the key light and the fill were both on the same side of the lens.  "Does that matter?" he asked.  I said that it was rather unconventional, but he was the cameraman and could light it any way he chose.  He then asked where I would sug
> gest putting the lights ( I did have a thought about where he could shove his lights, but decided keep quiet - besides the lamps were rather hot by then and he wouldn't have been able to sit down for some time ).  I repositioned the lamps so that the key was one one side with the fill the other, while the weird shooting angle allowed me to put in a small backlight to highlight the hair, which would have been tricky to do with the limited kit we had within the small room if he had stuck with the traditional head-on angle.
> 
> I did quite a few of these inserts for them and each one was a painful demonstration of why people need to employ professionals.  What made it worse was that mistakes were made one week and then a different researcher / cameraman came out the next week and made pretty well the same mistakes all over again again because they kept quiet about any problems back in the office.  As far as the talk in the office was concerned, that first shoot was unfortunate but all the other shoots went like clockwork.
> 
> Alan Taylor
> 
> 
> 
> On 13 Feb 2020, at 13 Feb . 17:10, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 13/02/2020 15:59, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
>>> ...
>>> 
>>> They phoned back the next day and agreed my rate. Meaning they couldn't
>>> find anyone else.
>>> 
>>> ...
>> 
>> While I was moving into equipment design some time back, I still did the occasional day's sound recording for mates.
>> 
>> A local TV company rang one day and asked if I could do a day the next morning. Yes, but they'd previously been unwilling to pay my sensible rate, and when I reiterated that they went away. Late that afternoon they came back ... and said they would pay after all - obviously nobody else available. Great, I said, but it was too late for me to get the kit now. OK, we'll find what you need and send it over to you this evening. Fine - no problem.
>> 
>> Eventually, at midnight, a courier bike roared up with the gear, having driven some 150 miles to collect and deliver it.
>> 
>> The job must have eventually cost them three times the going rate - if only they had agreed to pay proper money in the first place.
>> 
>> Chris Woolf
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From phider at gmx.com  Fri Feb 14 07:03:09 2020
From: phider at gmx.com (Peter Hider)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 14:03:09 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] John Eden-Eden
Message-ID: <trinity-ea8e035a-fd0d-49c5-8de0-5e6299ec1686-1581685389124@3c-app-mailcom-bs16>

I  understand that John Wants to visit  Chas Davison at the  home he's  in  in  Birmingham. My ex-wife was going to call him to give him details but she has lost  John's  number. Could a kind soul from sound send it to me and I'll pass it on. Or get John to call me on 07850 555 151

Best regards
Peter Hider


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Feb 14 07:58:26 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 13:58:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] John Eden-Eden
In-Reply-To: <trinity-ea8e035a-fd0d-49c5-8de0-5e6299ec1686-1581685389124@3c-app-mailcom-bs16>
References: <trinity-ea8e035a-fd0d-49c5-8de0-5e6299ec1686-1581685389124@3c-app-mailcom-bs16>
Message-ID: <5e46a782.1c69fb81.55e28.f7b6@mx.google.com>

Haven?t got a phone number but his e-mail is:
jaedeneadon at btinternet.com
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Peter Hider via Tech1
Sent: 14 February 2020 13:03
To: tech1
Subject: [Tech1] John Eden-Eden

I  understand that John Wants to visit  Chas Davison at the  home he's  in  in  Birmingham. My ex-wife was going to call him to give him details but she has lost  John's  number. Could a kind soul from sound send it to me and I'll pass it on. Or get John to call me on 07850 555 151

Best regards
Peter Hider

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Feb 14 08:28:16 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 14:28:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] No surprise!
In-Reply-To: <9f487010-0c91-7c17-40fb-bd376a67e03e@clara.co.uk>
References: <9f487010-0c91-7c17-40fb-bd376a67e03e@clara.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5e46ae80.1c69fb81.eac7c.f1cf@mx.google.com>

This came in from  a Guild colleague. Not pretty reading!

https://www.screendaily.com/news/nine-of-10-uk-film-and-tv-workers-have-experienced-a-mental-health-problem-new-study-reveals/5147113.article?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=UK%20%20Europe%20Daily%2013%20Feb&utm_content=UK%20%20Europe%20Daily%2013%20Feb+CID_7a60cd28f8d3525190d78385090af423&utm_source=Newsletter 

Coincidentally, as there had been mention of Hugh Barker recently, I had a long phone call with Hugh?s wife, Rita.
Sadly, he is now afflicted with Altzheimer?s and sometimes does not recognise his grandchildren, but is apparently reasonably happy and otherwise healthy. I?m saddened to hear of his condition, as he was one of the most switched-on Sound Supervisors I had the pleasure of working with.
Rita has promised to let me know of any change in Hugh?s situation.
Pat



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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 14 08:47:48 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 14:47:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Talking of getting it right....
Message-ID: <956a617d-7875-b331-cd01-2f682df5a160@gmail.com>

I was hunting Netflix last night, looking for something watchable - 
which isn't always that easy -? and found a film called The Hustle. 
Having been a fan of BBC Hustle, I started to watch.? It's not cheap 
stuff, starring Anne Hathaway and Rebel Wilson, but it did rather turn 
out to be rubbish, and i gave up.

Before I left I watched this scene in a railway carriage. Please ignore 
the cut down picture quality and slight misframing, that's my off screen 
rip using OBS Studio. Just watch the cutting -
http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/bern/Sequence%2019_1.mp4

B
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Fri Feb 14 08:51:47 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 14:51:47 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] No surprise!
In-Reply-To: <5e46ae80.1c69fb81.eac7c.f1cf@mx.google.com>
References: <9f487010-0c91-7c17-40fb-bd376a67e03e@clara.co.uk>
	<5e46ae80.1c69fb81.eac7c.f1cf@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <DD4D4D3D01174C629CA99F3F929AEF4F@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Couldn?t agree more Pat, Hugh really stands as one of the best, not just in the quality and professionalism of his work but as a captain of a crew ? apt really in view of his naval background. It is indeed upsetting to think of his plight and if it is indeed the case that he seems not to be in distress his family and all who knew him will be grateful at least for that small mercy.

Dave Newbitt

From: patheigham via Tech1 
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2020 2:28 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: [Tech1] No surprise!

This came in from  a Guild colleague. Not pretty reading!

 

https://www.screendaily.com/news/nine-of-10-uk-film-and-tv-workers-have-experienced-a-mental-health-problem-new-study-reveals/5147113.article?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=UK%20%20Europe%20Daily%2013%20Feb&utm_content=UK%20%20Europe%20Daily%2013%20Feb+CID_7a60cd28f8d3525190d78385090af423&utm_source=Newsletter 

 

Coincidentally, as there had been mention of Hugh Barker recently, I had a long phone call with Hugh?s wife, Rita.

Sadly, he is now afflicted with Altzheimer?s and sometimes does not recognise his grandchildren, but is apparently reasonably happy and otherwise healthy. I?m saddened to hear of his condition, as he was one of the most switched-on Sound Supervisors I had the pleasure of working with.

Rita has promised to let me know of any change in Hugh?s situation.

Pat

 

 

 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Feb 14 08:55:15 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 14:55:15 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] The perils of being freelance in TV
In-Reply-To: <54868C76-1EC4-4EBA-9291-A2796061C42A@me.com>
References: <4598C63A-407B-46AC-9EC9-89A495B70AE9@me.com>
	<5841ba20d2dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<c64816be-8e6a-997b-61f6-ee90af5480dc@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<54868C76-1EC4-4EBA-9291-A2796061C42A@me.com>
Message-ID: <5e46b4d3.1c69fb81.d6cd0.df09@mx.google.com>

I had one shoot, working on my own, (no boom op) to cover a forum discussion with students on raked seating. Camera centre front.
The ?inexperienced? cameraman plonked a 2K right behind the camera and then wondered why there was a mike shadow on the back wall, as at the full stretch of the Panamic I was going for a chatty bloke at the very back.
Two solutions: move the key light sideways, or do a bit of research as to who might pose decent questions and move them to the front row!
>From the excellent training received at BBC TV, I was always able to ask lighting cameramen to drop the key a couple of feet, or move it a bit sideways, as that would throw a shadow out of frame. Only one time was this refused, so Plan B!
I would not have dared to challenge Freddie Young, but he was aware of lighting for a boom:
I found the BBC training invaluable in sussing out the DoP?s lighting plot, to see which lamps would give problems to the boom.
One commercial I worked on, shot at Hatchlands, a National Trust property near my home (probably the nearest location I?ve ever had!),
was the first Nescafe Gold Blend of the subsequent series. The DoP was none other than the great Freddie Young. He paused by the sound table and enquired who was the boom operator. Me! Asked me my name and said: ?I?m Freddie, and you won?t have any problems?. Standing in the artistes? position, I took a look ? perfectly textbook standard 3-point lighting ? key, fill, back.
A lovely man!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alan Taylor via Tech1
Sent: 13 February 2020 21:01
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] The perils of being freelance in TV

In that same spirit of doing it cheaply and spending vastly more.

The next week, I was booked again, but still without a proper cameraman.  The researcher / cameraman set up his lights and then started repositioning the camera to get an interesting angle for the interview of a guy who had a huge collection of spark plugs.  Being in the days of Yoof television, where standards were near non-existent and novelty was everything, it had to be "different and sexy".  He eventually settled on a shot which was very low angle with the camera moved some distance from it's original position, almost shooting the interviewee in profile.  He asked me if I was ready and I asked him if HE was ready.  He asked why I asked in that way because he was obviously ready.  I explained that he had moved so far from his original position that the key light and the fill were both on the same side of the lens.  "Does that matter?" he asked.  I said that it was rather unconventional, but he was the cameraman and could light it any way he chose.  He then asked where I would suggest putting the lights ( I did have a thought about where he could shove his lights, but decided keep quiet - besides the lamps were rather hot by then and he wouldn't have been able to sit down for some time ).  I repositioned the lamps so that the key was one one side with the fill the other, while the weird shooting angle allowed me to put in a small backlight to highlight the hair, which would have been tricky to do with the limited kit we had within the small room if he had stuck with the traditional head-on angle.

Alan Taylor



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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Feb 14 09:14:21 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 15:14:21 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Talking of getting it right....
In-Reply-To: <956a617d-7875-b331-cd01-2f682df5a160@gmail.com>
References: <956a617d-7875-b331-cd01-2f682df5a160@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5e46b94d.1c69fb81.7c2ea.086e@mx.google.com>

Talk about ?crossing the line? ( not referring to the railway variety, here!)
Have either the director or cameraman ever been to a decent film school?
It used to be important to establish the geography of a set.
A usual cameraman I worked with, related a story:
The director of the job he got one day  wanted a handheld tracking shot,
backwards down a street and said: ?can you shoot the close -ups at the same time??
And ? I want it all to look cosmic?
What was he on?

Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 14 February 2020 14:48
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Talking of getting it right....

I was hunting Netflix last night, looking for something watchable - which isn't always that easy -? and found a film called The Hustle. Having been a fan of BBC Hustle, I started to watch.? It's not cheap stuff, starring Anne Hathaway and Rebel Wilson, but it did rather turn out to be rubbish, and i gave up.

Before I left I watched this scene in a railway carriage. Please ignore the cut down picture quality and slight misframing, that's my off screen rip using OBS Studio. Just watch the cutting - 
http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/bern/Sequence%2019_1.mp4

B

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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Fri Feb 14 09:44:01 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 15:44:01 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Talking of getting it right....
In-Reply-To: <5e46b94d.1c69fb81.7c2ea.086e@mx.google.com>
References: <5e46b94d.1c69fb81.7c2ea.086e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <200D3808-2397-4739-9ABC-F0556711908A@icloud.com>

Been there, been baffled many a time!

Graeme Wall

> On 14 Feb 2020, at 15:15, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Talk about ?crossing the line? ( not referring to the railway variety, here!)
> Have either the director or cameraman ever been to a decent film school?
> It used to be important to establish the geography of a set.
> A usual cameraman I worked with, related a story:
> The director of the job he got one day  wanted a handheld tracking shot,
> backwards down a street and said: ?can you shoot the close -ups at the same time??
> And ? I want it all to look cosmic?
> What was he on?
>  
> Pat
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
> Sent: 14 February 2020 14:48
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: [Tech1] Talking of getting it right....
>  
> I was hunting Netflix last night, looking for something watchable - which isn't always that easy -  and found a film called The Hustle. Having been a fan of BBC Hustle, I started to watch.  It's not cheap stuff, starring Anne Hathaway and Rebel Wilson, but it did rather turn out to be rubbish, and i gave up.
> 
> Before I left I watched this scene in a railway carriage. Please ignore the cut down picture quality and slight misframing, that's my off screen rip using OBS Studio. Just watch the cutting - 
> http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/bern/Sequence%2019_1.mp4
> 
> B
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Fri Feb 14 10:00:40 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 16:00:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Talking of getting it right....
In-Reply-To: <200D3808-2397-4739-9ABC-F0556711908A@icloud.com>
References: <5e46b94d.1c69fb81.7c2ea.086e@mx.google.com>
	<200D3808-2397-4739-9ABC-F0556711908A@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <65fbb5c7-0f5c-c4aa-c9b4-06932d302dba@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Maybe the director thinks everyone has a squint and doesn't actually 
look at each when they talk....

Chris Woolf


On 14/02/2020 15:44, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote:
> Been there, been baffled many a time!
>
> Graeme Wall
>
>> On 14 Feb 2020, at 15:15, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Talk about ?crossing the line? ( not referring to the railway 
>> variety, here!)
>>
>> Have either the director or cameraman ever been to a decent film school?
>>
>> It used to be important to establish the geography of a set.
>>
>> A usual cameraman I worked with, related a story:
>>
>> The director of the job he got one day wanted a handheld tracking shot,
>>
>> backwards down a street and said: ?can you shoot the close -ups at 
>> the same time??
>>
>> And ? I want it all to look cosmic?
>>
>> What was he on?
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
>> Windows 10
>>
>> *From: *Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Sent: *14 February 2020 14:48
>> *To: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Subject: *[Tech1] Talking of getting it right....
>>
>> I was hunting Netflix last night, looking for something watchable - 
>> which isn't always that easy -? and found a film called The Hustle. 
>> Having been a fan of BBC Hustle, I started to watch.? It's not cheap 
>> stuff, starring Anne Hathaway and Rebel Wilson, but it did rather 
>> turn out to be rubbish, and i gave up.
>>
>> Before I left I watched this scene in a railway carriage. Please 
>> ignore the cut down picture quality and slight misframing, that's my 
>> off screen rip using OBS Studio. Just watch the cutting -
>> http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/bern/Sequence%2019_1.mp4
>>
>> B
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Fri Feb 14 10:35:31 2020
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (Vernon Dyer)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 16:35:31 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Talking of getting it right....
In-Reply-To: <65fbb5c7-0f5c-c4aa-c9b4-06932d302dba@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <5e46b94d.1c69fb81.7c2ea.086e@mx.google.com>
	<200D3808-2397-4739-9ABC-F0556711908A@icloud.com>
	<65fbb5c7-0f5c-c4aa-c9b4-06932d302dba@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5E3A15B60184BDD4@re-prd-rgout-002.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net>
	(added by postmaster@btinternet.com)

OMG!  Mind you, taking the wide from the opposite side of the line to the singles seems to be the way to do it these days ? take a look at Coronation Street.   I keep forgetting to check the name of the director of the episode, and I?ve realised why his/her credit is at the beginning!  Crossing the line several times in the same scene has sadly become the norm.  Sometimes I miss work, and sometimes I look at what goes on these days and think I?m well out of it!

Rant over, I feel better now!

Best wishes  .....  Vern 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Chris Woolf via Tech1
Sent: 14 February 2020 16:01
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Talking of getting it right....

Maybe the director thinks everyone has a squint and doesn't actually look at each when they talk....
Chris Woolf

On 14/02/2020 15:44, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote:
Been there, been baffled many a time!
Graeme Wall


On 14 Feb 2020, at 15:15, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
? 
Talk about ?crossing the line? ( not referring to the railway variety, here!)
Have either the director or cameraman ever been to a decent film school?
It used to be important to establish the geography of a set.
A usual cameraman I worked with, related a story:
The director of the job he got one day? wanted a handheld tracking shot,
backwards down a street and said: ?can you shoot the close -ups at the same time??
And ? I want it all to look cosmic?
What was he on?
?
Pat
?
?
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
?
From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 14 February 2020 14:48
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Talking of getting it right....
?
I was hunting Netflix last night, looking for something watchable - which isn't always that easy -? and found a film called The Hustle. Having been a fan of BBC Hustle, I started to watch.? It's not cheap stuff, starring Anne Hathaway and Rebel Wilson, but it did rather turn out to be rubbish, and i gave up.

Before I left I watched this scene in a railway carriage. Please ignore the cut down picture quality and slight misframing, that's my off screen rip using OBS Studio. Just watch the cutting - 
http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/bern/Sequence%2019_1.mp4

B
?
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 14 11:45:52 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 17:45:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Talking of getting it right....
In-Reply-To: <5e46b94d.1c69fb81.7c2ea.086e@mx.google.com>
References: <956a617d-7875-b331-cd01-2f682df5a160@gmail.com>
	<5e46b94d.1c69fb81.7c2ea.086e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyHY83N1zWf8YWDAsyhOU1OYjcwJpQaf00g=hobLgUoarA@mail.gmail.com>

Not only that, Anne Hathaway's eyeline is always for when Rebel Wilson's
position is on the downstage end of the seat. One thing about working in
TC1 or wherever, we just couldn't do those shots, even if we'd wanted to,
which we didn't

B

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 3:14 PM patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:

> Talk about ?crossing the line? ( not referring to the railway variety,
> here!)
>
> Have either the director or cameraman ever been to a decent film school?
>
> It used to be important to establish the geography of a set.
>
> A usual cameraman I worked with, related a story:
>
> The director of the job he got one day  wanted a handheld tracking shot,
>
> backwards down a street and said: ?can you shoot the close -ups at the
> same time??
>
> And ? I want it all to look cosmic?
>
> What was he on?
>
>
>
> Pat
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *14 February 2020 14:48
> *To: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> *Subject: *[Tech1] Talking of getting it right....
>
>
>
> I was hunting Netflix last night, looking for something watchable - which
> isn't always that easy -  and found a film called The Hustle. Having been a
> fan of BBC Hustle, I started to watch.  It's not cheap stuff, starring Anne
> Hathaway and Rebel Wilson, but it did rather turn out to be rubbish, and i
> gave up.
>
> Before I left I watched this scene in a railway carriage. Please ignore
> the cut down picture quality and slight misframing, that's my off screen
> rip using OBS Studio. Just watch the cutting -
> http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/bern/Sequence%2019_1.mp4
>
> B
>
>
>
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From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Fri Feb 14 14:16:05 2020
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (Vernon Dyer)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 20:16:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW:  Talking of getting it right....
References: <5e46b94d.1c69fb81.7c2ea.086e@mx.google.com>
	<200D3808-2397-4739-9ABC-F0556711908A@icloud.com>
	<65fbb5c7-0f5c-c4aa-c9b4-06932d302dba@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5E3A195F018ADF89@re-prd-rgout-005.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net>
	(added by postmaster@btinternet.com)



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Vernon Dyer
Sent: 14 February 2020 16:34
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: RE: [Tech1] Talking of getting it right....

OMG!? Mind you, taking the wide from the opposite side of the line to the singles seems to be the way to do it these days ? take a look at Coronation Street.?? I keep forgetting to check the name of the director of the episode, and I?ve realised why his/her credit is at the beginning!? Crossing the line several times in the same scene has sadly become the norm.? Sometimes I miss work, and sometimes I look at what goes on these days and think I?m well out of it!

Rant over, I feel better now!

Best wishes? .....? Vern 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Chris Woolf via Tech1
Sent: 14 February 2020 16:01
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Talking of getting it right....

Maybe the director thinks everyone has a squint and doesn't actually look at each when they talk....
Chris Woolf

On 14/02/2020 15:44, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote:
Been there, been baffled many a time!
Graeme Wall

On 14 Feb 2020, at 15:15, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
? 
Talk about ?crossing the line? ( not referring to the railway variety, here!)
Have either the director or cameraman ever been to a decent film school?
It used to be important to establish the geography of a set.
A usual cameraman I worked with, related a story:
The director of the job he got one day? wanted a handheld tracking shot,
backwards down a street and said: ?can you shoot the close -ups at the same time??
And ? I want it all to look cosmic?
What was he on?
?
Pat
?
?
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
?
From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 14 February 2020 14:48
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Talking of getting it right....
?
I was hunting Netflix last night, looking for something watchable - which isn't always that easy -? and found a film called The Hustle. Having been a fan of BBC Hustle, I started to watch.? It's not cheap stuff, starring Anne Hathaway and Rebel Wilson, but it did rather turn out to be rubbish, and i gave up.

Before I left I watched this scene in a railway carriage. Please ignore the cut down picture quality and slight misframing, that's my off screen rip using OBS Studio. Just watch the cutting - 
http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/bern/Sequence%2019_1.mp4

B
?
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From nick at nickway.co.uk  Sat Feb 15 00:52:49 2020
From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 06:52:49 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] No surprise!
In-Reply-To: <5e46ae80.1c69fb81.eac7c.f1cf@mx.google.com>
References: <9f487010-0c91-7c17-40fb-bd376a67e03e@clara.co.uk>
	<5e46ae80.1c69fb81.eac7c.f1cf@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <533641987.139376.1581749569780@email.ionos.co.uk>

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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sun Feb 16 12:28:45 2020
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 18:28:45 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Emotional Elton John halts New Zealand gig after pneumonia
 diagnosis - BBC News
Message-ID: <0C082BAE76354B85B7B8BD3B8A23EB26@Gigabyte>

See this item in last section. No need for a concert sound mix as this device will do it all!!
Bye Bye sound mixer!
Mike
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51522715
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sun Feb 16 13:40:39 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 19:40:39 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Emotional Elton John halts New Zealand gig after
 pneumonia diagnosis - BBC News
In-Reply-To: <0C082BAE76354B85B7B8BD3B8A23EB26@Gigabyte>
References: <0C082BAE76354B85B7B8BD3B8A23EB26@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <E7A93078-1F99-47E9-B24A-D6D1A44F4903@icloud.com>

Reminds me of the old idea of everyone mixing their own cameras on a football match!

? 
Graeme Wall


> On 16 Feb 2020, at 18:28, Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> See this item in last section. No need for a concert sound mix as this device will do it all!!
>  
> Bye Bye sound mixer!
>  
> Mike
>  
>  
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51522715
>  
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Sun Feb 16 15:13:19 2020
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 21:13:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Future of the BBC
Message-ID: <C2BAB56F-F262-4923-8A3D-7C6C6896DCF0@btinternet.com>

Hi Chaps and Chapesses
Anyone going defend the BBC against the attack by Boris?
Much in the news today!
AB



From tonys at tonyscott.org.uk  Sun Feb 16 15:19:55 2020
From: tonys at tonyscott.org.uk (Tony Scott)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 21:19:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Future of the BBC
In-Reply-To: <C2BAB56F-F262-4923-8A3D-7C6C6896DCF0@btinternet.com>
References: <C2BAB56F-F262-4923-8A3D-7C6C6896DCF0@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAOw_4rYVukK7b7TPzBbUakh63LB03n0MsKDwBc1JjyEdmRgKZg@mail.gmail.com>

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-bbc-1



On Sun, 16 Feb 2020, 21:13 Albert Barber via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hi Chaps and Chapesses
> Anyone going defend the BBC against the attack by Boris?
> Much in the news today!
> AB
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Feb 16 15:35:26 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 21:35:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Emotional Elton John halts New Zealand gig after
 pneumonia diagnosis - BBC News
In-Reply-To: <0C082BAE76354B85B7B8BD3B8A23EB26@Gigabyte>
References: <0C082BAE76354B85B7B8BD3B8A23EB26@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <20a28e0f-678c-3744-c4cf-6ae823a4baee@btinternet.com>

Only 4 channels to tweak, by what I saw - not nearly enough, and while 
you are pi**ing about with it you aren't listening to what the artiste 
wants you to hear! The world's gone control mad! Cheers, Dave

On 16/02/2020 18:28, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote:
> See this item in last section. No need for a concert sound mix as this 
> device will do it all!!
> Bye Bye sound mixer!
> Mike
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51522715
>
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sun Feb 16 17:15:27 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 23:15:27 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Future of the BBC
In-Reply-To: <CAOw_4rYVukK7b7TPzBbUakh63LB03n0MsKDwBc1JjyEdmRgKZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C2BAB56F-F262-4923-8A3D-7C6C6896DCF0@btinternet.com>
	<CAOw_4rYVukK7b7TPzBbUakh63LB03n0MsKDwBc1JjyEdmRgKZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A89CFDDCBFE4AB7B323741128493EBD@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

I?m sure many of us feel a deep sense of sadness about the whole gory saga of what has happened to the BBC with this license issue. The anticipated consequence of regional sell offs, reduced number of channels etc. is just the latest and possibly the terminal assault on an organisation that, for all its faults, is still in key areas a bastion of independence. Problem is we are all, seemingly by consensus, avoiding political issues on the forum and here we are with the BBC central to all our thoughts being targeted in as politically motivated a manner as can be imagined.

The 38 degrees organisation (where I have sometimes on particular issues added my voice) seems to be widely seen as very left wing and thus open to criticism as to its motives. I doubt whether any effective process can be dreamed up to save the day. I often muse on our colleague and his signature ?don?t blame me......?!

Dave Newbitt.

From: Tony Scott via Tech1 
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2020 9:19 PM
To: Albert Barber 
Cc: David Buckley via Tech1 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Future of the BBC

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-our-bbc-1 



On Sun, 16 Feb 2020, 21:13 Albert Barber via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

  Hi Chaps and Chapesses
  Anyone going defend the BBC against the attack by Boris?
  Much in the news today!
  AB


  -- 
  Tech1 mailing list
  Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
  http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



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From techtone at protonmail.com  Tue Feb 18 15:28:32 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 21:28:32 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] teatest
Message-ID: <Gmrk1sh74J85BeatpjH3OO8AKjJGBLix8trQlqLlm3nfi8wgkIf4NfHz5SpHnNfjVE1pvInz4bsODxzUparT7oqS9V4qHF0npOn9EkT6QCo=@protonmail.com>

test new email

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Feb 19 06:40:38 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 12:40:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] M & S Valentine food advice
Message-ID: <5e4d2cc8.1c69fb81.4303e.ae8a@mx.google.com>

I wonder if M & S are having a sneaky laugh, as a cameraman I used to work with, always referred to playing ?hide the sausage? in describing an intimate activity.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Wed Feb 19 14:20:51 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 20:20:51 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] M & S Valentine food advice
In-Reply-To: <5e4d2cc8.1c69fb81.4303e.ae8a@mx.google.com>
References: <5e4d2cc8.1c69fb81.4303e.ae8a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <89896362.9169394.1582143651453@mail.yahoo.com>

 
There was once a pack of Walls sausages bearing the words, "Old Irish Recipe, Extra Thick Sausages".
And, it is said that there was once a pack of celebrity-chef sausages, bearing a picture of a smiling Antony Warrall Thompson, above the words "Prick with a Fork".
(both curtesy of "That's Life", or something similar.)
luv, Rog.

    On Wednesday, 19 February 2020, 12:41:15 GMT, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:  
 
 
I wonder if M & S are having a sneaky laugh, as a cameraman I used to work with, always referred to playing ?hide the sausage? in describing an intimate activity.

Pat

 ?

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 ?
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From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Wed Feb 19 14:38:39 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 20:38:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Date and Time
References: <2032251530.9199394.1582144719010.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2032251530.9199394.1582144719010@mail.yahoo.com>

And, don't forget to set your alarm clocks for 2 minutes past 2 am tomorrow morning, just to wake up for a perfect time-and-date palindrome -
02. 02. 20. 02. 2020
And do you know how many years it'll be before there's another one? Answer: oddly 0.1066 years!There'll be one at the same time on 30th March. But that'll have a couple of threes in it. Much more aesthetic when its all twos and zeros.
luv, Rog.
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From alanaudio at me.com  Wed Feb 19 16:35:59 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 22:35:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] M & S Valentine food advice
In-Reply-To: <89896362.9169394.1582143651453@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <89896362.9169394.1582143651453@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAC352AF-19F5-4936-8821-DA62C4C3D2A5@me.com>

If you do a search for ?Prick with a fork?, you will probably see images of a different celebrity chef ( A. H. ) and one who I feel is more deserving of that description. 

Incidentally, I was in Marks and Sparks today and in the food section they were fresh out of love sausages, but had reduced twin packs of Coquilles St Jacques from ?6 to just 90p, most likely Valentines Day products expiring today.  A couple of packs found their way into our shopping basket and became a delicious lunch. 

*** Warning of Tone lowering, anybody easily offended should stop reading now ****

Pat?s cameraman acquaintance may have had a certain amount of experience hiding the sausage, but another young cameraman appeared to reveal the opposite.  We were recording a comedy show which featured topical gags. During that particular week, Jade Goody had famously referred to her front bottom as her ?kebab?.  Art dept provided a kebab and the young lad on camera four was tasked with making it look as suggestive as possible, with no need to hold back as the show was transmitted after the watershed. It soon became painfully obvious that it was a concept beyond his somewhat limited experience. 

Alan Taylor

> On 19 Feb 2020, at 21:43, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?
> 
> There was once a pack of Walls sausages bearing the words, "Old Irish Recipe, Extra Thick Sausages".
> 
> And, it is said that there was once a pack of celebrity-chef sausages, bearing a picture of a smiling Antony Warrall Thompson, above the words "Prick with a Fork".
> 
> (both curtesy of "That's Life", or something similar.)
> 
> luv, Rog.
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, 19 February 2020, 12:41:15 GMT, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> I wonder if M & S are having a sneaky laugh, as a cameraman I used to work with, always referred to playing ?hide the sausage? in describing an intimate activity.
> 
> Pat
> 
>  
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 20 02:24:54 2020
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 08:24:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] M & S Valentine food advice
In-Reply-To: <89896362.9169394.1582143651453@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5e4d2cc8.1c69fb81.4303e.ae8a@mx.google.com>
	<89896362.9169394.1582143651453@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAA0HHB1s5V0ntAuM=OE938-xHoZPiAFRAJyODHi4s5xn0fHJDA@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, there _was_ an advert with Ainsley Herriett ? with the legend "prick
with a fork" . I used it as the last slide in a presentation about obvious
problems that should have been spotted before release. Other items in the
presentation included a shot of the scaffolding used in the set of
"Titanic" and Microsoft's advert for their initial release of their railway
simulation software which proved it couldn't run ...

Best regards Alec

sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.

On Wed, 19 Feb 2020, 20:23 ROGER BUNCE via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

>
> There was once a pack of Walls sausages bearing the words, "Old Irish
> Recipe, Extra Thick Sausages".
>
> And, it is said that there was once a pack of celebrity-chef sausages,
> bearing a picture of a smiling Antony Warrall Thompson, above the words
> "Prick with a Fork".
>
> (both curtesy of "That's Life", or something similar.)
>
> luv, Rog.
>
>
> On Wednesday, 19 February 2020, 12:41:15 GMT, patheigham via Tech1 <
> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> I wonder if M & S are having a sneaky laugh, as a cameraman I used to work
> with, always referred to playing ?hide the sausage? in describing an
> intimate activity.
>
> Pat
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> --
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> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From david.beer at talktalk.net  Thu Feb 20 02:32:03 2020
From: david.beer at talktalk.net (David Beer)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 08:32:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] M & S Valentine food advice
In-Reply-To: <CAA0HHB1s5V0ntAuM=OE938-xHoZPiAFRAJyODHi4s5xn0fHJDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5e4d2cc8.1c69fb81.4303e.ae8a@mx.google.com>
	<89896362.9169394.1582143651453@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CAA0HHB1s5V0ntAuM=OE938-xHoZPiAFRAJyODHi4s5xn0fHJDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BA66C192D73AC726.2a518376-9ea7-4519-ab33-2ccc00c52718@mail.outlook.com>

And we all remember the BBC's further education programme, 'How to Develop a Small Firm'. 'A small firm what?' was the response of course.
Get Outlook for Android



On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 8:25 AM +0000, "Alec Bray via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:










Yes, there _was_ an advert with Ainsley Herriett ? with the legend "prick with a fork" . I used it as the last slide in a presentation about obvious problems that should have been spotted before release. Other items in the presentation included a shot of the scaffolding used in the set of "Titanic" and Microsoft's advert for their initial release of their railway simulation software which proved it couldn't run ...
Best regards Alec

sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020, 20:23 ROGER BUNCE via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

        
There was once a pack of Walls sausages bearing the words, "Old Irish Recipe, Extra Thick Sausages".
And, it is said that there was once a pack of celebrity-chef sausages, bearing a picture of a smiling Antony Warrall Thompson, above the words "Prick with a Fork".
(both curtesy of "That's Life", or something similar.)
luv, Rog.


        
        
            
                
                
                    On Wednesday, 19 February 2020, 12:41:15 GMT, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
                
                

                

                

I wonder if M & S are having a sneaky laugh, as a cameraman I used to work with, always referred to playing ?hide the sausage? in describing an intimate activity.

Pat

 ?

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 ?-- 
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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

            
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Thu Feb 20 02:48:26 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 08:48:26 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] M & S Valentine food advice
In-Reply-To: <BA66C192D73AC726.2a518376-9ea7-4519-ab33-2ccc00c52718@mail.outlook.com>
References: <5e4d2cc8.1c69fb81.4303e.ae8a@mx.google.com><89896362.9169394.1582143651453@mail.yahoo.com><CAA0HHB1s5V0ntAuM=OE938-xHoZPiAFRAJyODHi4s5xn0fHJDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA66C192D73AC726.2a518376-9ea7-4519-ab33-2ccc00c52718@mail.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <A7BC410E448E4B9EA40BA89E971F65E8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

In not dissimilar vein there was of course David Frost?s ?I upped my income up yours? (omission of comma to represent the manner of delivery).

Dave Newbitt.

From: David Beer via Tech1 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 8:32 AM
To: Tech Ops Group 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] M & S Valentine food advice

And we all remember the BBC's further education programme, 'How to Develop a Small Firm'. 'A small firm what?' was the response of course.

Get Outlook for Android




On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 8:25 AM +0000, "Alec Bray via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


  Yes, there _was_ an advert with Ainsley Herriett ? with the legend "prick with a fork" . I used it as the last slide in a presentation about obvious problems that should have been spotted before release. Other items in the presentation included a shot of the scaffolding used in the set of "Titanic" and Microsoft's advert for their initial release of their railway simulation software which proved it couldn't run ... 

  Best regards Alec


  sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.

  On Wed, 19 Feb 2020, 20:23 ROGER BUNCE via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


    There was once a pack of Walls sausages bearing the words, "Old Irish Recipe, Extra Thick Sausages".

    And, it is said that there was once a pack of celebrity-chef sausages, bearing a picture of a smiling Antony Warrall Thompson, above the words "Prick with a Fork".

    (both curtesy of "That's Life", or something similar.)

    luv, Rog.


    On Wednesday, 19 February 2020, 12:41:15 GMT, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: 


    I wonder if M & S are having a sneaky laugh, as a cameraman I used to work with, always referred to playing ?hide the sausage? in describing an intimate activity.

    Pat



    Sent from Mail for Windows 10



    -- 
    Tech1 mailing list
    Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
    http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

    -- 
    Tech1 mailing list
    Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
    http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



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From techtone at protonmail.com  Fri Feb 21 04:30:06 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:30:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Humax replacement
Message-ID: <D8DpxFDSo7mP_xCKg0Fm6vsguzAvIC_IhTXblUMUHL3aliGoFpmywvOGA59bgfqYhpRNWWB3Lbuih-epk0WcC2I9dmII3hz0Ybn78ojmgQs=@protonmail.com>

Both myself and one of my neighbours are having problems with our old Humax PVRs. Having looked on the internet, I now find that they are no longer being made, although there are still a few left to buy, if you're quick!

Therefore I've been trawling the net to find out what a modern alternative might be that doesn't involve the internet, or 'smart' systems. So, has anyone tried one of the Freesat decoders that you can plug a hard disc into via a USB connector to record programmes, and does it have the facility to record more than one at a time (like the Humax) onto one hard disc, and replay from the hard disc via the box to view on a tv? Info via the web is limited to say the least, without spending a lifetime of trawling.

And whilst talking tvs, are there any that have both Freeview and Freesat decoding built in? I might as well consider all options currently on offer. And since we have finally committed Brexit, what about a return to good old British 405 line, 4x3, monochrome CRT tvs eh?

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
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From dave at davesound.co.uk  Fri Feb 21 04:42:35 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:42:35 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Humax replacement
In-Reply-To: <D8DpxFDSo7mP_xCKg0Fm6vsguzAvIC_IhTXblUMUHL3aliGoFpmywvOGA59bgfqYhpRNWWB3Lbuih-epk0WcC2I9dmII3hz0Ybn78ojmgQs=@protonmai
References: <D8DpxFDSo7mP_xCKg0Fm6vsguzAvIC_IhTXblUMUHL3aliGoFpmywvOGA59bgfqYhpRNWWB3Lbuih-epk0WcC2I9dmII3hz0Ybn78ojmgQs=@protonmai
Message-ID: <5845bbc4d1dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article
<D8DpxFDSo7mP_xCKg0Fm6vsguzAvIC_IhTXblUMUHL3aliGoFpmywvOGA59bgfqYhpRNWWB3Lbuih-epk0WcC2I9dmII3hz0Ybn78ojmgQs=@protonmai,
   techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Both myself and one of my neighbours are having problems with our old
> Humax PVRs. Having looked on the internet, I now find that they are no
> longer being made, although there are still a few left to buy, if you're
> quick!

That's odd. They make the box for BT TV - basically just modified
software. BT have just sent me a new one. The old one still works as a
FreeView tuner and recorder etc, but now refuses to find the broadband
signal. So no 'smart' facilities.

-- 
*If I worked as much as others, I would do as little as they *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From dave at davesound.co.uk  Fri Feb 21 08:23:18 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 14:23:18 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Humax replacement
In-Reply-To: <D8DpxFDSo7mP_xCKg0Fm6vsguzAvIC_IhTXblUMUHL3aliGoFpmywvOGA59bgfqYhpRNWWB3Lbuih-epk0WcC2I9dmII3hz0Ybn78ojmgQs=@protonmai
References: <D8DpxFDSo7mP_xCKg0Fm6vsguzAvIC_IhTXblUMUHL3aliGoFpmywvOGA59bgfqYhpRNWWB3Lbuih-epk0WcC2I9dmII3hz0Ybn78ojmgQs=@protonmai
Message-ID: <5845cff9d0dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article
<D8DpxFDSo7mP_xCKg0Fm6vsguzAvIC_IhTXblUMUHL3aliGoFpmywvOGA59bgfqYhpRNWWB3Lbuih-epk0WcC2I9dmII3hz0Ybn78ojmgQs=@protonmai,
   techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Therefore I've been trawling the net to find out what a modern
> alternative might be that doesn't involve the internet, or 'smart'
> systems. So, has anyone tried one of the Freesat decoders that you can
> plug a hard disc into via a USB connector to record programmes, and does
> it have the facility to record more than one at a time (like the Humax)
> onto one hard disc, and replay from the hard disc via the box to view on
> a tv? Info via the web is limited to say the least, without spending a
> lifetime of trawling.

I can't see a non smart one selling for much less, given the limited
demand.

But a smart one will still work as a FreeView tuner and recorder without
being online.  Although may complain about it. ;-)

-- 
*Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.*

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Fri Feb 21 09:52:26 2020
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:52:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Humax replacement
In-Reply-To: <D8DpxFDSo7mP_xCKg0Fm6vsguzAvIC_IhTXblUMUHL3aliGoFpmywvOGA59bgfqYhpRNWWB3Lbuih-epk0WcC2I9dmII3hz0Ybn78ojmgQs=@protonmail.com>
References: <D8DpxFDSo7mP_xCKg0Fm6vsguzAvIC_IhTXblUMUHL3aliGoFpmywvOGA59bgfqYhpRNWWB3Lbuih-epk0WcC2I9dmII3hz0Ybn78ojmgQs=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <9C0A6BAC-9A48-4442-AEF7-B332DA65E98C@btinternet.com>

I have a panasonic TV that I can attach a 2TB (or any) hard disc to so that I can record. If it?s recording though you can?t tune into anything else. Both PVR?s I have can transfer to a hard disc and via a USB can download files.
Best 
AB


> On 21 Feb 2020, at 10:30, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Both myself and one of my neighbours are having problems with our old Humax PVRs. Having looked on the internet, I now find that they are no longer being made, although there are still a few left to buy, if you're quick!
> 
> Therefore I've been trawling the net to find out what a modern alternative might be that doesn't involve the internet, or 'smart' systems. So, has anyone tried one of the Freesat decoders that you can plug a hard disc into via a USB connector to record programmes, and does it have the facility to record more than one at a time (like the Humax) onto one hard disc, and replay from the hard disc via the box to view on a tv? Info via the web is limited to say the least, without spending a lifetime of trawling.
> 
> And whilst talking tvs, are there any that have both Freeview and Freesat decoding built in? I might as well consider all options currently on offer. And since we have finally committed Brexit, what about a return to good old British 405 line, 4x3, monochrome CRT tvs eh?
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> 
> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email.
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Fri Feb 21 09:54:13 2020
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (David Denness)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 15:54:13 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Humax replacement
In-Reply-To: <D8DpxFDSo7mP_xCKg0Fm6vsguzAvIC_IhTXblUMUHL3aliGoFpmywvOGA59bgfqYhpRNWWB3Lbuih-epk0WcC2I9dmII3hz0Ybn78ojmgQs=@protonmail.com>
References: <D8DpxFDSo7mP_xCKg0Fm6vsguzAvIC_IhTXblUMUHL3aliGoFpmywvOGA59bgfqYhpRNWWB3Lbuih-epk0WcC2I9dmII3hz0Ybn78ojmgQs=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001d5e8cf$2aa7c510$7ff74f30$@gmail.com>

I believe Freesat have withdrawn their licence from Humax and it is about to be awarded to another manufacturer.

Humax are still marketing Freeview and Freeview+ units, both new and refurbished via their website.

The Humax freeview box I use needs cabled internet access

I have never seen one capable of both freeview and freesat

Dave D

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of techtone via Tech1
Sent: 21 February 2020 10:30
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Humax replacement

 

Both myself and one of my neighbours are having problems with our old Humax PVRs. Having looked on the internet, I now find that they are no longer being made, although there are still a few left to buy, if you're quick!

 

Therefore I've been trawling the net to find out what a modern alternative might be that doesn't involve the internet, or 'smart' systems. So, has anyone tried one of the Freesat decoders that you can plug a hard disc into via a USB connector to record programmes, and does it have the facility to record more than one at a time (like the Humax) onto one hard disc, and replay from the hard disc via the box to view on a tv? Info via the web is limited to say the least, without spending a lifetime of trawling.

 

And whilst talking tvs, are there any that have both Freeview and Freesat decoding built in? I might as well consider all options currently on offer. And since we have finally committed Brexit, what about a return to good old British 405 line, 4x3, monochrome CRT tvs eh?

 

TeaTeaFN - Tony

 

 

Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com>  Secure Email.

 

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From dave at davesound.co.uk  Fri Feb 21 10:39:05 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 16:39:05 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Humax replacement
In-Reply-To: <000001d5e8cf$2aa7c510$7ff74f30$@gmail.com>
References: <D8DpxFDSo7mP_xCKg0Fm6vsguzAvIC_IhTXblUMUHL3aliGoFpmywvOGA59bgfqYhpRNWWB3Lbuih-
	<000001d5e8cf$2aa7c510$7ff74f30$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5845dc682bdave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <000001d5e8cf$2aa7c510$7ff74f30$@gmail.com>,
   David Denness via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I believe Freesat have withdrawn their licence from Humax and it is
> about to be awarded to another manufacturer.

Interesting. My satellite tuner includes an HD for recording the rare
thing I might want off that. Dreadfully clunky to use, though.  

> Humax are still marketing Freeview and Freeview+ units, both new and
> refurbished via their website.

> The Humax freeview box I use needs cabled internet access

Oddly, the BT versions - even the latest ones - are cable only. Have
another Humax which does Wi-Fi.

> I have never seen one capable of both freeview and freesat

-- 
*Also too, never, ever use repetitive redundancies *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From techtone at protonmail.com  Fri Feb 21 14:55:43 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 20:55:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Humax replacement
In-Reply-To: <5845dc682bdave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <000001d5e8cf$2aa7c510$7ff74f30$@gmail.com>
	<5845dc682bdave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5HGYAKRLIIPz7Qk7OZyvX75mnUNXlf5QlBT1YtWZ0Xu5Fr74TCK9pIhDWNi1oXJgCFma1UEVjeGeCtEaPVUrIO1RW0Fn1Up2A5dg5ogZa7Q=@protonmail.com>

Oops, I see from replies that I didn't make it clear that the Humax is for Freesat, not Freeview (which the tv does - ALL BY ITSELF!). Thus, any replacement my neighbour and I need is for Freesat.

Note to self, must read any emails I write before pressing 'Send'.

TeaTeaFN - Tony


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.


From techtone at protonmail.com  Fri Feb 21 14:58:43 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2020 20:58:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Old age cometh
Message-ID: <Dyh5ISwqHHJA8-nNPc8iKHinLfUS5waQ0fVZCXuOoeQu5ud9DnbBdF6gsndZMJcKnxrv9jG8GaHv-UFjgsDtlcU1aiPuRy2Za0YQf_9KvD8=@protonmail.com>

Following a birthday, it has been pointed out to me that you can now tell when you have reached old age. It's when your mistress says 'Darling, let's go upstairs and make love' and you reply, 'I can't do both'.

TeaTeaFN - Tony

Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com) Secure Email.
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Feb 22 07:16:35 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 13:16:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Old age cometh
In-Reply-To: <Dyh5ISwqHHJA8-nNPc8iKHinLfUS5waQ0fVZCXuOoeQu5ud9DnbBdF6gsndZMJcKnxrv9jG8GaHv-UFjgsDtlcU1aiPuRy2Za0YQf_9KvD8=@protonmail.com>
References: <Dyh5ISwqHHJA8-nNPc8iKHinLfUS5waQ0fVZCXuOoeQu5ud9DnbBdF6gsndZMJcKnxrv9jG8GaHv-UFjgsDtlcU1aiPuRy2Za0YQf_9KvD8=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <5e5129b2.1c69fb81.46161.19bc@mx.google.com>

And when you have to sit down to put on pants & socks!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: techtone via Tech1
Sent: 21 February 2020 20:59
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Old age cometh

Following a birthday, it has been pointed out to me that you can now tell when you have reached old age. It's when your mistress says 'Darling, let's go upstairs and make love' and you reply, 'I can't do both'.

TeaTeaFN - Tony


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

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From dave at davesound.co.uk  Sat Feb 22 07:23:08 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 13:23:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Old age cometh
In-Reply-To: <Dyh5ISwqHHJA8-nNPc8iKHinLfUS5waQ0fVZCXuOoeQu5ud9DnbBdF6gsndZMJcKnxrv9jG8GaHv-UFjgsDtlcU1aiPuRy2Za0YQf_9KvD8=@protonmai
References: <Dyh5ISwqHHJA8-nNPc8iKHinLfUS5waQ0fVZCXuOoeQu5ud9DnbBdF6gsndZMJcKnxrv9jG8GaHv-UFjgsDtlcU1aiPuRy2Za0YQf_9KvD8=@protonmai
Message-ID: <58464e4dc3dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article
<Dyh5ISwqHHJA8-nNPc8iKHinLfUS5waQ0fVZCXuOoeQu5ud9DnbBdF6gsndZMJcKnxrv9jG8GaHv-UFjgsDtlcU1aiPuRy2Za0YQf_9KvD8=@protonmai,
   techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Following a birthday, it has been pointed out to me that you can now
> tell when you have reached old age. It's when your mistress says
> 'Darling, let's go upstairs and make love' and you reply, 'I can't do
> both'.

And, of course, having got upstairs, forget what you went there for?

-- 
*Honk if you love peace and quiet*

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 22 09:10:43 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 15:10:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Old age cometh
In-Reply-To: <58464e4dc3dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <Dyh5ISwqHHJA8-nNPc8iKHinLfUS5waQ0fVZCXuOoeQu5ud9DnbBdF6gsndZMJcKnxrv9jG8GaHv-UFjgsDtlcU1aiPuRy2Za0YQf_9KvD8=@protonmai
	<58464e4dc3dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2cdd6a39-1234-df83-db33-ec7e78f916fe@gmail.com>

If you fall over, you're still young, if you have a fall, you're old.

B



On 22/02/2020 13:23, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> In article
> <Dyh5ISwqHHJA8-nNPc8iKHinLfUS5waQ0fVZCXuOoeQu5ud9DnbBdF6gsndZMJcKnxrv9jG8GaHv-UFjgsDtlcU1aiPuRy2Za0YQf_9KvD8=@protonmai,
>     techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Following a birthday, it has been pointed out to me that you can now
>> tell when you have reached old age. It's when your mistress says
>> 'Darling, let's go upstairs and make love' and you reply, 'I can't do
>> both'.
> And, of course, having got upstairs, forget what you went there for?
>

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From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Sat Feb 22 12:40:59 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 18:40:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
References: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi All,
Can anyone help me by identifying any of the characters (the Techies, not the Stars) in these pictures. The images date from 1959 and 1960, and are taken from the documentary film "This is the BBC" and from "First Night", the first programme broadcast from TV Centre. Any interesting observations about the equipment could also be useful.
Thanks,
luv, Rog.







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From davidpcarter at btinternet.com  Sat Feb 22 13:04:22 2020
From: davidpcarter at btinternet.com (davidpcarter at btinternet.com)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 19:04:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
In-Reply-To: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <125b61c5.1239.1706e494e07.Webtop.215@btinternet.com>


Is that John Farr behind David Nixon?

David

------ Original Message ------
From: "ROGER BUNCE via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
To: "Tech-Ops-chit-chat" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, 22 Feb, 2020 At 18:40
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?



Hi All,


Can anyone help me by identifying any of the characters (the Techies, 
not the Stars) in these pictures. The images date from 1959 and 1960, 
and are taken from the documentary film "This is the BBC" and from 
"First Night", the first programme broadcast from TV Centre. Any 
interesting observations about the equipment could also be useful.


Thanks,


luv, Rog.


Inline image


Inline image


Inline image




Inline image


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
<http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>

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From jccglass at gmail.com  Sat Feb 22 13:50:34 2020
From: jccglass at gmail.com (Chris on gmail)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 19:50:34 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
References: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D54B4421826F4105A7DDD43B1FD8D617@dell9100>

rRod Taylor and Pete Valentine on mole?

Chris


From billjenkin67 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 22 14:28:59 2020
From: billjenkin67 at gmail.com (Bill Jenkin)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2020 20:28:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
In-Reply-To: <125b61c5.1239.1706e494e07.Webtop.215@btinternet.com>
References: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
	<125b61c5.1239.1706e494e07.Webtop.215@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAE6tP4CQ_oreWqeZ_FX68MFnd-ganNbZKFxrfRhvBEFkuGwbnw@mail.gmail.com>

It could be Laurie Duley on the front of the mole.
That camera is a Marconi mkiv. The other camera in the photos is a Marconi
mkiii.

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 19:05 davidpcarter--- via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Is that John Farr behind David Nixon?
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "ROGER BUNCE via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> To: "Tech-Ops-chit-chat" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: Saturday, 22 Feb, 2020 At 18:40
> Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
>
> Hi All,
>
> Can anyone help me by identifying any of the characters (the Techies, not
> the Stars) in these pictures. The images date from 1959 and 1960, and are
> taken from the documentary film "This is the BBC" and from "First Night",
> the first programme broadcast from TV Centre. Any interesting observations
> about the equipment could also be useful.
>
> Thanks,
>
> luv, Rog.
>
> [image: Inline image]
>
> [image: Inline image]
>
> [image: Inline image]
>
>
> [image: Inline image]
> ------------------------------
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
> --
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>
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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sat Feb 22 18:11:38 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 00:11:38 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
In-Reply-To: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9F8898676AC8437CA7A73757E4DFD4BF@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

How about Mike Cotton for the boom-op?

Dave Newbitt.

From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2020 6:40 PM
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat 
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?

Hi All,

Can anyone help me by identifying any of the characters (the Techies, not the Stars) in these pictures. The images date from 1959 and 1960, and are taken from the documentary film "This is the BBC" and from "First Night", the first programme broadcast from TV Centre. Any interesting observations about the equipment could also be useful.

Thanks,

luv, Rog.














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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sun Feb 23 03:28:26 2020
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 09:28:26 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
In-Reply-To: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7544CA1EBB47499CB1D69EB763D2EF0E@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Further to previous ? I should have said I?m suggesting Mike Cotton on the boom for the 4th of Roger?s images (the one where the boom op is on right of frame occupying the full height of the shot. Also I?m sure David Carter is right about John Farr.

Dave Newbitt. 

From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2020 6:40 PM
To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat 
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?

Hi All,

Can anyone help me by identifying any of the characters (the Techies, not the Stars) in these pictures. The images date from 1959 and 1960, and are taken from the documentary film "This is the BBC" and from "First Night", the first programme broadcast from TV Centre. Any interesting observations about the equipment could also be useful.

Thanks,

luv, Rog.














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From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Sun Feb 23 03:52:29 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 09:52:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6tP4CQ_oreWqeZ_FX68MFnd-ganNbZKFxrfRhvBEFkuGwbnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
	<125b61c5.1239.1706e494e07.Webtop.215@btinternet.com>
	<CAE6tP4CQ_oreWqeZ_FX68MFnd-ganNbZKFxrfRhvBEFkuGwbnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27949013.11555304.1582451549126@mail.yahoo.com>

 O.K.
Yes, Bill. It is definitely Laurie Duley. He is more clearly visible from other angles.
Hi David and Dudley, I too suspected it might be John Farr in pic 3. Are you out there John Farr? Are you reading this? Did you work on "First Night"?
According to IMDb an uncredited 'Technical Operator' named Clive Doig appears in "This is the BBC", but I've been unable to recognise him. Are you out there Clive? Which one is you?
As for the others, all guesses are equally valid, so keep guessing. There's a remote possibility that we might achieve a consensus.
Does anyone actually remember being there? - for "This is the BBC" (1959) or "First Night" (1960)?
luv, Rog.


     On Saturday, 22 February 2020, 20:29:51 GMT, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:  
 
 It could be Laurie Duley on the front of the mole.?That camera is a Marconi mkiv. The other camera in the photos is a Marconi mkiii.?
On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 19:05 davidpcarter--- via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

 Is that John Farr behind David Nixon?



David




------ Original Message ------
From: "ROGER BUNCE via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
To: "Tech-Ops-chit-chat" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, 22 Feb, 2020 At 18:40
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?

Hi All,
Can anyone help me by identifying any of the characters (the Techies, not the Stars) in these pictures. The images date from 1959 and 1960, and are taken from the documentary film "This is the BBC" and from "First Night", the first programme broadcast from TV Centre. Any interesting observations about the equipment could also be useful.
Thanks,
luv, Rog.







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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Sun Feb 23 04:03:58 2020
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 10:03:58 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fw:  Who are they?
References: <gfj8hilqll1s6gs4f9a87djl.1582452061134@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <es4um4jn5i64o5kca4cimhl6.1582452238703@pgtmedia.co.uk>

Rog


Clive became a vision mixer then produce
See (which includes a photo)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Doig


Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

07802 243979

Mail;?paul at pgtmedia.co.uk

Web;?http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin;???http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB;?http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/

sent from my BlackBerry?the most secure mobile device?via the O2 Network


? Original Message ?


From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 23 February 2020 09:53
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Reply to: rogerbunce at btinternet.com
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Who are they?


O.K.


Yes, Bill. It is definitely Laurie Duley. He is more clearly visible from other angles.


Hi David and Dudley, I too suspected it might be John Farr in pic 3. Are you out there John Farr? Are you reading this? Did you work on "First Night"?


According to IMDb an uncredited 'Technical Operator' named Clive Doig appears in "This is the BBC", but I've been unable to recognise him. Are you out there Clive? Which one is you?


As for the others, all guesses are equally valid, so keep guessing. There's a remote possibility that we might achieve a consensus.


Does anyone actually remember being there? - for "This is the BBC" (1959) or "First Night" (1960)?


luv, Rog.






??????????????????? On Saturday, 22 February 2020, 20:29:51 GMT, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: ??????????????




It could be Laurie Duley on the front of the mole.?
That camera is a Marconi mkiv. The other camera in the photos is a Marconi mkiii.?


On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 19:05 davidpcarter--- via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

Is that John Farr behind David Nixon?




David





------ Original Message ------
From: "ROGER BUNCE via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
To: "Tech-Ops-chit-chat" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, 22 Feb, 2020 At 18:40
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?


Hi All,


Can anyone help me by identifying any of the characters (the Techies, not the Stars) in these pictures. The images date from 1959 and 1960, and are taken from the documentary film "This is the BBC" and from "First Night", the first programme broadcast from TV Centre. Any interesting observations about the equipment could also be useful.


Thanks,


luv, Rog.
















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From johnk.farr at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Feb 23 07:35:07 2020
From: johnk.farr at tiscali.co.uk (john farr)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 13:35:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6tP4CQ_oreWqeZ_FX68MFnd-ganNbZKFxrfRhvBEFkuGwbnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
	<125b61c5.1239.1706e494e07.Webtop.215@btinternet.com>
	<CAE6tP4CQ_oreWqeZ_FX68MFnd-ganNbZKFxrfRhvBEFkuGwbnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.1.1582464937.905991.tech1_tech-ops.co.uk@tech-ops.co.uk>

Yes it is me behind David Nixon and Bernard Fox on the front of the Mole

John

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bill Jenkin via Tech1
Sent: 22 February 2020 20:29
To: Tech-Ops. co. uk email group
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Who are they?

It could be Laurie Duley on the front of the mole.?
That camera is a Marconi mkiv. The other camera in the photos is a Marconi mkiii.?

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 19:05 davidpcarter--- via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
Is that John Farr behind David Nixon?

David




------ Original Message ------
From: "ROGER BUNCE via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
To: "Tech-Ops-chit-chat" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, 22 Feb, 2020 At 18:40
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
Hi All,

Can anyone help me by identifying any of the characters (the Techies, not the Stars) in these pictures. The images date from 1959 and 1960, and are taken from the documentary film "This is the BBC" and from "First Night", the first programme broadcast from TV Centre. Any interesting observations about the equipment could also be useful.

Thanks,

luv, Rog.










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From johnk.farr at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Feb 23 08:11:40 2020
From: johnk.farr at tiscali.co.uk (john farr)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 14:11:40 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
References: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
	<125b61c5.1239.1706e494e07.Webtop.215@btinternet.com>
	<CAE6tP4CQ_oreWqeZ_FX68MFnd-ganNbZKFxrfRhvBEFkuGwbnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.2.1582467129.905991.tech1_tech-ops.co.uk@tech-ops.co.uk>

Further to my previous. I am not sure but I think that it may be Alan Horne swinging the arm, also it may be John Lewis or Paul loosely driving the mole. It is along time ago but Crew 5 definitely worked on The David Nixon Show on the first night at the TV Centre

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: john farr via Tech1
Sent: 23 February 2020 13:35
To: Bill Jenkin; Tech-Ops. co. uk email group
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Who are they?

Yes it is me behind David Nixon and Bernard Fox on the front of the Mole

John

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bill Jenkin via Tech1
Sent: 22 February 2020 20:29
To: Tech-Ops. co. uk email group
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Who are they?

It could be Laurie Duley on the front of the mole.?
That camera is a Marconi mkiv. The other camera in the photos is a Marconi mkiii.?

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 19:05 davidpcarter--- via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
Is that John Farr behind David Nixon?

David



------ Original Message ------
From: "ROGER BUNCE via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
To: "Tech-Ops-chit-chat" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, 22 Feb, 2020 At 18:40
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
Hi All,

Can anyone help me by identifying any of the characters (the Techies, not the Stars) in these pictures. The images date from 1959 and 1960, and are taken from the documentary film "This is the BBC" and from "First Night", the first programme broadcast from TV Centre. Any interesting observations about the equipment could also be useful.

Thanks,

luv, Rog.










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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Sun Feb 23 11:25:03 2020
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 17:25:03 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
In-Reply-To: <27949013.11555304.1582451549126@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
	<125b61c5.1239.1706e494e07.Webtop.215@btinternet.com>
	<CAE6tP4CQ_oreWqeZ_FX68MFnd-ganNbZKFxrfRhvBEFkuGwbnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<27949013.11555304.1582451549126@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <19569632-8873-4B72-81DA-9DCA32185E9A@btinternet.com>

Cameraman with patterned pullover?..Dave Thomson maybe.
Barry.



On 23 Feb 2020, at 09:52, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> O.K.
> 
> Yes, Bill. It is definitely Laurie Duley. He is more clearly visible from other angles.
> 
> Hi David and Dudley, I too suspected it might be John Farr in pic 3. Are you out there John Farr? Are you reading this? Did you work on "First Night"?
> 
> According to IMDb an uncredited 'Technical Operator' named Clive Doig appears in "This is the BBC", but I've been unable to recognise him. Are you out there Clive? Which one is you?
> 
> As for the others, all guesses are equally valid, so keep guessing. There's a remote possibility that we might achieve a consensus.
> 
> Does anyone actually remember being there? - for "This is the BBC" (1959) or "First Night" (1960)?
> 
> luv, Rog.
> 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, 22 February 2020, 20:29:51 GMT, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> It could be Laurie Duley on the front of the mole. 
> That camera is a Marconi mkiv. The other camera in the photos is a Marconi mkiii. 
> 
> On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 19:05 davidpcarter--- via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Is that John Farr behind David Nixon?
> 
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "ROGER BUNCE via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> To: "Tech-Ops-chit-chat" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: Saturday, 22 Feb, 2020 At 18:40
> Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Can anyone help me by identifying any of the characters (the Techies, not the Stars) in these pictures. The images date from 1959 and 1960, and are taken from the documentary film "This is the BBC" and from "First Night", the first programme broadcast from TV Centre. Any interesting observations about the equipment could also be useful.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> luv, Rog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Tech1 mailing list
> 
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Feb 23 11:25:36 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 17:25:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Q Acoustics M2 Sound-Base
In-Reply-To: <CALVqK2EnHS8DTo8Du7vODHEFiSuiSCZZCGxRzCKhELNpo5bh+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALVqK2EnHS8DTo8Du7vODHEFiSuiSCZZCGxRzCKhELNpo5bh+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d10f5ec6-129d-3dde-5e12-48ed6dd4985f@btinternet.com>

Mike York wants to dispose the above, anyone interested please contact 
Mike. Cheers, Dave



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	Sound Base
Date: 	Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:23:30 +0000
From: 	Michael York <clementiart at gmail.com>
To: 	dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com>



Hi Dave,

I am having a re-arrange so?have decided to sell my Q Acoustics M2 
sound-base.? It is pristine and fully working. Comes with mains lead and 
remote but no other leads.? Won lot of awards for best sound-base in 
recent years.? They are about ?149 on the internet so I was looking for 
as near ?100 as possible or is that too greedy?

Any one you know might want it?

Cheers,

Mike
see photos
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From hughsheppard at btinternet.com  Sun Feb 23 12:22:36 2020
From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 18:22:36 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
In-Reply-To: <CAE6tP4CQ_oreWqeZ_FX68MFnd-ganNbZKFxrfRhvBEFkuGwbnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
	<125b61c5.1239.1706e494e07.Webtop.215@btinternet.com>
	<CAE6tP4CQ_oreWqeZ_FX68MFnd-ganNbZKFxrfRhvBEFkuGwbnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9fa187c6-1795-9d5e-6c41-64a6c15870b8@btinternet.com>

I'd go with Laurie,but John Farr was there! Perhaps Tony Powell standing 
foreground right of the boom,? I don't think Dave Thompson in the 
multi-coloured jersey; he always kept his jacket on with 'The Manchester 
Guardian' in a pocket. But Bill Millar perhaps...

best

Hugh


On 22-Feb-20 8:28 PM, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 wrote:
> It could be Laurie Duley on the front of the mole.
> That camera is a Marconi mkiv. The other camera in the photos is a 
> Marconi mkiii.
>
> On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 19:05 davidpcarter--- via Tech1, 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>     Is that John Farr behind David Nixon?
>
>
>     David
>
>
>         ------ Original Message ------ From: "ROGER BUNCE via Tech1"
>         <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> To:
>         "Tech-Ops-chit-chat" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>         <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> Sent: Saturday, 22 Feb, 2020 At
>         18:40 Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
>         Hi All,
>         Can anyone help me by identifying any of the characters (the
>         Techies, not the Stars) in these pictures. The images date
>         from 1959 and 1960, and are taken from the documentary film
>         "This is the BBC" and from "First Night", the first programme
>         broadcast from TV Centre. Any interesting observations about
>         the equipment could also be useful.
>         Thanks,
>         luv, Rog.
>         Inline image
>         Inline image
>         Inline image
>         Inline image
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>         <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>

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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Sun Feb 23 16:20:38 2020
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 22:20:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
In-Reply-To: <9fa187c6-1795-9d5e-6c41-64a6c15870b8@btinternet.com>
References: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
	<125b61c5.1239.1706e494e07.Webtop.215@btinternet.com>
	<CAE6tP4CQ_oreWqeZ_FX68MFnd-ganNbZKFxrfRhvBEFkuGwbnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<9fa187c6-1795-9d5e-6c41-64a6c15870b8@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <8AB7ABEB-FDA8-48A5-81AF-321B2D44727D@btinternet.com>

I was on a crew with Dave Thomson, he did occasionally take off his jacket complete with the essential newspaper when the heat in the studio was too much! I was mainly going by the haircut.
Barry.



On 23 Feb 2020, at 18:22, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I'd go with Laurie,but John Farr was there! Perhaps Tony Powell standing foreground right of the boom,  I don't think Dave Thompson in the multi-coloured jersey; he always kept his jacket on with 'The Manchester Guardian' in a pocket. But Bill Millar perhaps...
> 
> best
> 
> Hugh
>  
> 
> On 22-Feb-20 8:28 PM, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 wrote:
>> It could be Laurie Duley on the front of the mole. 
>> That camera is a Marconi mkiv. The other camera in the photos is a Marconi mkiii. 
>> 
>> On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 19:05 davidpcarter--- via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> Is that John Farr behind David Nixon?
>> 
>> David
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "ROGER BUNCE via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> To: "Tech-Ops-chit-chat" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Sent: Saturday, 22 Feb, 2020 At 18:40
>> Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Can anyone help me by identifying any of the characters (the Techies, not the Stars) in these pictures. The images date from 1959 and 1960, and are taken from the documentary film "This is the BBC" and from "First Night", the first programme broadcast from TV Centre. Any interesting observations about the equipment could also be useful.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> luv, Rog.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> 
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From johnk.farr at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Feb 23 17:13:20 2020
From: johnk.farr at tiscali.co.uk (john farr)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 23:13:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
In-Reply-To: <8AB7ABEB-FDA8-48A5-81AF-321B2D44727D@btinternet.com>
References: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
	<125b61c5.1239.1706e494e07.Webtop.215@btinternet.com>
	<CAE6tP4CQ_oreWqeZ_FX68MFnd-ganNbZKFxrfRhvBEFkuGwbnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<9fa187c6-1795-9d5e-6c41-64a6c15870b8@btinternet.com>
	<8AB7ABEB-FDA8-48A5-81AF-321B2D44727D@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.3.1582499615.905991.tech1_tech-ops.co.uk@tech-ops.co.uk>

I think that Hugh Sheppard is right Tony Powell was on crew 5 at that time

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Barry Bonner via Tech1
Sent: 23 February 2020 22:20
To: Hugh Sheppard
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Who are they?

I was on a crew with Dave Thomson, he did occasionally take off his jacket complete with the essential newspaper when the heat in the studio was too much! I was mainly going by the haircut.
Barry.


On 23 Feb 2020, at 18:22, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


I'd go with Laurie,but John Farr was there! Perhaps Tony Powell standing foreground right of the boom,? I don't think Dave Thompson in the multi-coloured jersey; he always kept his jacket on with 'The Manchester Guardian' in a pocket. But Bill Millar perhaps...

best

Hugh
?
On 22-Feb-20 8:28 PM, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 wrote:
It could be Laurie Duley on the front of the mole.? 
That camera is a Marconi mkiv. The other camera in the photos is a Marconi mkiii.?

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 19:05 davidpcarter--- via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
Is that John Farr behind David Nixon? 

David


------ Original Message ------ From: "ROGER BUNCE via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> To: "Tech-Ops-chit-chat" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Sent: Saturday, 22 Feb, 2020 At 18:40 Subject: [Tech1] Who are they? 
Hi All,
Can anyone help me by identifying any of the characters (the Techies, not the Stars) in these pictures. The images date from 1959 and 1960, and are taken from the documentary film "This is the BBC" and from "First Night", the first programme broadcast from TV Centre. Any interesting observations about the equipment could also be useful.
Thanks,
luv, Rog.

-- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



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From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Mon Feb 24 03:20:43 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 09:20:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they?
In-Reply-To: <5E32F6620458C88E@sa-prd-rgin-006.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net>
References: <1203724481.11373600.1582396860235.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1203724481.11373600.1582396860235@mail.yahoo.com>
	<125b61c5.1239.1706e494e07.Webtop.215@btinternet.com>
	<CAE6tP4CQ_oreWqeZ_FX68MFnd-ganNbZKFxrfRhvBEFkuGwbnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<9fa187c6-1795-9d5e-6c41-64a6c15870b8@btinternet.com>
	<8AB7ABEB-FDA8-48A5-81AF-321B2D44727D@btinternet.com>
	<5E32F6620458C88E@sa-prd-rgin-006.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net>
Message-ID: <983488094.12145442.1582536043762@mail.yahoo.com>

 I, too, thought the foreground figure in pic 2 (in line with the ped and weight bucket) might be Tony Powell. The image isn't clear enough to see whether his unique moustache is there.But I'm not convinced about Dave Thom(p)son. Dave's hair was fair and corrugated, quite distinctively so. I have some later images of Dave, on 'Z Cars', and his hair is recognisable, even from the back. The character in the stripy jumper looks too dark.
luv, Rog.
    On Sunday, 23 February 2020, 23:13:48 GMT, john farr via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:  
 
 
I think that Hugh Sheppard is right Tony Powell was on crew 5 at that time

 ?

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 ?

From: Barry Bonner via Tech1
Sent: 23 February 2020 22:20
To: Hugh Sheppard
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Who are they?

 ?

I was on a crew with Dave Thomson, he did occasionally take off his jacket complete with the essential newspaper when the heat in the studio was too much! I was mainly going by the haircut.

Barry.

 ?

 ?

On 23 Feb 2020, at 18:22, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:






I'd go with Laurie,but John Farr was there! Perhaps Tony Powell standing foreground right of the boom,? I don't think Dave Thompson in the multi-coloured jersey; he always kept his jacket on with 'The Manchester Guardian' in a pocket. But Bill Millar perhaps...

best

Hugh
?

On 22-Feb-20 8:28 PM, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 wrote:


It could be Laurie Duley on the front of the mole.? 

That camera is a Marconi mkiv. The other camera in the photos is a Marconi mkiii.?

 ?

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020, 19:05 davidpcarter--- via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


Is that John Farr behind David Nixon? 

 ?

David






------ Original Message ------ From: "ROGER BUNCE via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> To: "Tech-Ops-chit-chat" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Sent: Saturday, 22 Feb, 2020 At 18:40 Subject: [Tech1] Who are they? 

Hi All,

Can anyone help me by identifying any of the characters (the Techies, not the Stars) in these pictures. The images date from 1959 and 1960, and are taken from the documentary film "This is the BBC" and from "First Night", the first programme broadcast from TV Centre. Any interesting observations about the equipment could also be useful.

Thanks,

luv, Rog.



-- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk 


-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk







 ?

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Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


 ?

 ?
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Feb 24 16:36:48 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 22:36:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Q Acoustics M2 Sound-Base
In-Reply-To: <d10f5ec6-129d-3dde-5e12-48ed6dd4985f@btinternet.com>
References: <CALVqK2EnHS8DTo8Du7vODHEFiSuiSCZZCGxRzCKhELNpo5bh+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<d10f5ec6-129d-3dde-5e12-48ed6dd4985f@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <93CCC4D2-7552-4008-9112-DDA5991920CF@chriswoolf.co.uk>

I have one of these, and can confirm they are excellent. 
Chris  Woolf 

On 23 February 2020 17:25:36 GMT, "dave.mdv via Tech1" <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>Mike York wants to dispose the above, anyone interested please contact 
>Mike. Cheers, Dave
>
>
>
>-------- Forwarded Message --------
>Subject: 	Sound Base
>Date: 	Fri, 21 Feb 2020 10:23:30 +0000
>From: 	Michael York <clementiart at gmail.com>
>To: 	dave.mdv <dave.mdv at btinternet.com>
>
>
>
>Hi Dave,
>
>I am having a re-arrange so?have decided to sell my Q Acoustics M2 
>sound-base.? It is pristine and fully working. Comes with mains lead
>and 
>remote but no other leads.? Won lot of awards for best sound-base in 
>recent years.? They are about ?149 on the internet so I was looking for
>
>as near ?100 as possible or is that too greedy?
>
>Any one you know might want it?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Mike
>see photos
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Feb 25 15:21:49 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 21:21:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
Message-ID: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>

I eat cheese twice a week as part of an evening meal, eg. steak, egg, 
and chips! I have always gone for the cheapest per Kg. from Asda, mainly 
Double Gloucester, which is OK but nothing special. However my son 
bought a hamper for my birthday which included a nice pat?, a very nice 
bottle of red stuff and a 'truckle' of Black Bomber extra-mature Cheddar 
(how the racists haven't challenged the name I don't know!) Anyway, this 
cheese is mind-blowingly cheesy! It makes the Asda stuff tasted like 
cheese flavoured plastic! My local stockist is the well-known Garson's 
Farm, which is well known for it's high prices and they are selling 
portions of Black Bomber, cut from a 3Kg. 'wheel', at ?23.99/Kg. The 
price from the Snowdonia makers for a 3Kg. wheel is ?50, ie. ?16/Kg. - 
profiteering or what? Garson's also sell the famous Japanese beef steak 
at about ?100 per steak - I won't be buying any! Cheers, Dave



From techtone at protonmail.com  Tue Feb 25 15:35:19 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 21:35:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
References: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <pkfvi9DoOlzFLnUUVjo9A3_Ny60-iDkYp6elu-iktcTVxrIdQ-v87MHPdSAIxUaqlQjbELPng_113jSLIFgWc5kPs1XfH3DQVh7rF7DAvVg=@protonmail.com>

Living as I do in Black Bomber country, I can confirm that it is head and shoulders above all other cheeses, its flavour and creamy texture are mouth-wateringly more-is. I have one truckle in the fridge as we speak (email?) and also a truckle of their Ruby Mist (Port flavoured cheese). Our local garden centre - Fron Goch, voted best in the UK last year - has the full range of their truckles, 200g priced at ?4.30 each, oops, you've just missed my disorganised there which was last Monday. I can also recommend their Red Storm, which is Red Leicester cheese, and the Amber Mist, whisky flavour. The others are very good, depending on your personal preferences.

TeaTeaFN - Tony





From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Feb 25 15:50:45 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 21:50:45 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <pkfvi9DoOlzFLnUUVjo9A3_Ny60-iDkYp6elu-iktcTVxrIdQ-v87MHPdSAIxUaqlQjbELPng_113jSLIFgWc5kPs1XfH3DQVh7rF7DAvVg=@protonmail.com>
References: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
	<pkfvi9DoOlzFLnUUVjo9A3_Ny60-iDkYp6elu-iktcTVxrIdQ-v87MHPdSAIxUaqlQjbELPng_113jSLIFgWc5kPs1XfH3DQVh7rF7DAvVg=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <cb9f8da0-a34b-ecf3-6aa2-ad9f92c568d0@btinternet.com>

Thanks Tony, for confirming what I thought! Garson's have 12 different 
200g. truckles on their shelves. I was going to order direct from 
Snowdonia but they have a minimum order of ?21 which is 3 of their 400 
gm truckles, which I don't know if they would freeze because it would 
take me years to eat them all! Cheers, Dave

On 25/02/2020 21:35, techtone wrote:
> Living as I do in Black Bomber country, I can confirm that it is head and shoulders above all other cheeses, its flavour and creamy texture are mouth-wateringly more-is. I have one truckle in the fridge as we speak (email?) and also a truckle of their Ruby Mist (Port flavoured cheese). Our local garden centre - Fron Goch, voted best in the UK last year - has the full range of their truckles, 200g priced at ?4.30 each, oops, you've just missed my disorganised there which was last Monday. I can also recommend their Red Storm, which is Red Leicester cheese, and the Amber Mist, whisky flavour. The others are very good, depending on your personal preferences.
>
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>
>
>


From waresound at msn.com  Tue Feb 25 15:54:57 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 21:54:57 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
References: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271B9897DCF249CDF4C9E81A7ED0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Try ?Tickler?, which you can get on the Sainsbury?s cheese counter. That?s our favourite at the moment. One of the things that makes it so good is that it hasn?t been sweating in an airtight single-use plastic wrapper. Of course though, I might be a bit biased: I went to boarding school only 4 miles from Cheddar, and my sister and B-in-L live there now.
Garsons is for tourists, Dave. One of Surrey?s best kept secrets is the farm shop in Ripley, Luff & Sons, a trad family owned and run farm shop and garden centre not a million miles from you, and we?ll worth your support! 
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 25 Feb 2020, at 21:22, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?I eat cheese twice a week as part of an evening meal, eg. steak, egg, and chips! I have always gone for the cheapest per Kg. from Asda, mainly Double Gloucester, which is OK but nothing special. However my son bought a hamper for my birthday which included a nice pat?, a very nice bottle of red stuff and a 'truckle' of Black Bomber extra-mature Cheddar (how the racists haven't challenged the name I don't know!) Anyway, this cheese is mind-blowingly cheesy! It makes the Asda stuff tasted like cheese flavoured plastic! My local stockist is the well-known Garson's Farm, which is well known for it's high prices and they are selling portions of Black Bomber, cut from a 3Kg. 'wheel', at ?23.99/Kg. The price from the Snowdonia makers for a 3Kg. wheel is ?50, ie. ?16/Kg. - profiteering or what? Garson's also sell the famous Japanese beef steak at about ?100 per steak - I won't be buying any! Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 25 16:00:08 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 22:00:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
References: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <b42ab930-8e56-9ab5-e2f2-d08655088084@gmail.com>

Suggestions -

Asda -? St Endellion,
Tesco -? Ossau Iraty, Pie D'angloys
Waitrose -? Cornish Yarg
And Stilton from all of them

A Lidl will open here soon. I wonder what they can offer?

B


On 25/02/2020 21:21, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
> I eat cheese twice a week as part of an evening meal, eg. steak, egg, 
> and chips! I have always gone for the cheapest per Kg. from Asda, 
> mainly Double Gloucester, which is OK but nothing special. However my 
> son bought a hamper for my birthday which included a nice pat?, a very 
> nice bottle of red stuff and a 'truckle' of Black Bomber extra-mature 
> Cheddar (how the racists haven't challenged the name I don't know!) 
> Anyway, this cheese is mind-blowingly cheesy! It makes the Asda stuff 
> tasted like cheese flavoured plastic! My local stockist is the 
> well-known Garson's Farm, which is well known for it's high prices and 
> they are selling portions of Black Bomber, cut from a 3Kg. 'wheel', at 
> ?23.99/Kg. The price from the Snowdonia makers for a 3Kg. wheel is 
> ?50, ie. ?16/Kg. - profiteering or what? Garson's also sell the famous 
> Japanese beef steak at about ?100 per steak - I won't be buying any! 
> Cheers, Dave
>
>

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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Tue Feb 25 16:48:47 2020
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (S. EDWARDS)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 22:48:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <b42ab930-8e56-9ab5-e2f2-d08655088084@gmail.com>
References: <b42ab930-8e56-9ab5-e2f2-d08655088084@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D69DFACF-CA23-406E-9293-E6BA1AA0DC69@btinternet.com>

?Being a veggie I always ensure that any Cheese is not made using animal rennet.

We never really know what gets into the food we eat: Even buying from M&S doesn?t necessarily guarantee quality:  A friend of mine works for one of the dairies supplying M&S - he recently told me that an employee lost a finger at a stage in the production process: They located the finger but the production carried on pretty much regardless - fortunately it was in the Double Gloucester cheese run which isn?t one of my favourites anyway (and certainly isn?t now)

Disclaimer 
*Please don?t have nightmares when you eat your next cheese cracker!

Steve
PS Don?t always believe what it says on the label !

> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


> On 25 Feb 2020, at 22:00, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Suggestions - 
> 
> Asda -  St Endellion, 
> Tesco -  Ossau Iraty, Pie D'angloys
> Waitrose -  Cornish Yarg
> And Stilton from all of them
> 
> A Lidl will open here soon. I wonder what they can offer?
> 
> B
>  
> 
> On 25/02/2020 21:21, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
>> I eat cheese twice a week as part of an evening meal, eg. steak, egg, and chips! I have always gone for the cheapest per Kg. from Asda, mainly Double Gloucester, which is OK but nothing special. However my son bought a hamper for my birthday which included a nice pat?, a very nice bottle of red stuff and a 'truckle' of Black Bomber extra-mature Cheddar (how the racists haven't challenged the name I don't know!) Anyway, this cheese is mind-blowingly cheesy! It makes the Asda stuff tasted like cheese flavoured plastic! My local stockist is the well-known Garson's Farm, which is well known for it's high prices and they are selling portions of Black Bomber, cut from a 3Kg. 'wheel', at ?23.99/Kg. The price from the Snowdonia makers for a 3Kg. wheel is ?50, ie. ?16/Kg. - profiteering or what? Garson's also sell the famous Japanese beef steak at about ?100 per steak - I won't be buying any! Cheers, Dave 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From s.k.edwards at btinternet.com  Tue Feb 25 16:48:47 2020
From: s.k.edwards at btinternet.com (S. EDWARDS)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 22:48:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <b42ab930-8e56-9ab5-e2f2-d08655088084@gmail.com>
References: <b42ab930-8e56-9ab5-e2f2-d08655088084@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D69DFACF-CA23-406E-9293-E6BA1AA0DC69@btinternet.com>

?Being a veggie I always ensure that any Cheese is not made using animal rennet.

We never really know what gets into the food we eat: Even buying from M&S doesn?t necessarily guarantee quality:  A friend of mine works for one of the dairies supplying M&S - he recently told me that an employee lost a finger at a stage in the production process: They located the finger but the production carried on pretty much regardless - fortunately it was in the Double Gloucester cheese run which isn?t one of my favourites anyway (and certainly isn?t now)

Disclaimer 
*Please don?t have nightmares when you eat your next cheese cracker!

Steve
PS Don?t always believe what it says on the label !

> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


> On 25 Feb 2020, at 22:00, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Suggestions - 
> 
> Asda -  St Endellion, 
> Tesco -  Ossau Iraty, Pie D'angloys
> Waitrose -  Cornish Yarg
> And Stilton from all of them
> 
> A Lidl will open here soon. I wonder what they can offer?
> 
> B
>  
> 
> On 25/02/2020 21:21, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
>> I eat cheese twice a week as part of an evening meal, eg. steak, egg, and chips! I have always gone for the cheapest per Kg. from Asda, mainly Double Gloucester, which is OK but nothing special. However my son bought a hamper for my birthday which included a nice pat?, a very nice bottle of red stuff and a 'truckle' of Black Bomber extra-mature Cheddar (how the racists haven't challenged the name I don't know!) Anyway, this cheese is mind-blowingly cheesy! It makes the Asda stuff tasted like cheese flavoured plastic! My local stockist is the well-known Garson's Farm, which is well known for it's high prices and they are selling portions of Black Bomber, cut from a 3Kg. 'wheel', at ?23.99/Kg. The price from the Snowdonia makers for a 3Kg. wheel is ?50, ie. ?16/Kg. - profiteering or what? Garson's also sell the famous Japanese beef steak at about ?100 per steak - I won't be buying any! Cheers, Dave 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Tue Feb 25 18:50:38 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 00:50:38 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <pkfvi9DoOlzFLnUUVjo9A3_Ny60-iDkYp6elu-iktcTVxrIdQ-v87MHPdSAIxUaqlQjbELPng_113jSLIFgWc5kPs1XfH3DQVh7rF7DAvVg=@protonmail.com>
References: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
	<pkfvi9DoOlzFLnUUVjo9A3_Ny60-iDkYp6elu-iktcTVxrIdQ-v87MHPdSAIxUaqlQjbELPng_113jSLIFgWc5kPs1XfH3DQVh7rF7DAvVg=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B512258-E487-4F38-92A5-37C0AA8B1E41@vincent68.plus.com>

Mrs Bells Blue

Waitrose

John V

Sent from my iPad

> On 25 Feb 2020, at 21:35, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Living as I do in Black Bomber country, I can confirm that it is head and shoulders above all other cheeses, its flavour and creamy texture are mouth-wateringly more-is. I have one truckle in the fridge as we speak (email?) and also a truckle of their Ruby Mist (Port flavoured cheese). Our local garden centre - Fron Goch, voted best in the UK last year - has the full range of their truckles, 200g priced at ?4.30 each, oops, you've just missed my disorganised there which was last Monday. I can also recommend their Red Storm, which is Red Leicester cheese, and the Amber Mist, whisky flavour. The others are very good, depending on your personal preferences.
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Wed Feb 26 03:44:22 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 09:44:22 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <5B512258-E487-4F38-92A5-37C0AA8B1E41@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
	<pkfvi9DoOlzFLnUUVjo9A3_Ny60-iDkYp6elu-iktcTVxrIdQ-v87MHPdSAIxUaqlQjbELPng_113jSLIFgWc5kPs1XfH3DQVh7rF7DAvVg=@protonmail.com>
	<5B512258-E487-4F38-92A5-37C0AA8B1E41@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <584552DB-320F-485A-90F6-7FF30701C8D2@icloud.com>

We?ve got a very good cheese shop in Guildford, Partisan, specialises in all sorts of interesting British and Continental cheeses.


? 
Graeme Wall


> On 26 Feb 2020, at 00:50, John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Mrs Bells Blue
> 
> Waitrose
> 
> John V
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 25 Feb 2020, at 21:35, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Living as I do in Black Bomber country, I can confirm that it is head and shoulders above all other cheeses, its flavour and creamy texture are mouth-wateringly more-is. I have one truckle in the fridge as we speak (email?) and also a truckle of their Ruby Mist (Port flavoured cheese). Our local garden centre - Fron Goch, voted best in the UK last year - has the full range of their truckles, 200g priced at ?4.30 each, oops, you've just missed my disorganised there which was last Monday. I can also recommend their Red Storm, which is Red Leicester cheese, and the Amber Mist, whisky flavour. The others are very good, depending on your personal preferences.
>> 
>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From bernie833 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 26 03:50:43 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 09:50:43 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <584552DB-320F-485A-90F6-7FF30701C8D2@icloud.com>
References: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
	<pkfvi9DoOlzFLnUUVjo9A3_Ny60-iDkYp6elu-iktcTVxrIdQ-v87MHPdSAIxUaqlQjbELPng_113jSLIFgWc5kPs1XfH3DQVh7rF7DAvVg=@protonmail.com>
	<5B512258-E487-4F38-92A5-37C0AA8B1E41@vincent68.plus.com>
	<584552DB-320F-485A-90F6-7FF30701C8D2@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyFgDeK9evB+SiftxyWWCKaXbXKZ08dDzwt4q+fQCd2JXg@mail.gmail.com>

Is that the one in the alleyway, that you can smell from the High Street?

On Wed, 26 Feb 2020, 09:44 Graeme Wall via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> We?ve got a very good cheese shop in Guildford, Partisan, specialises in
> all sorts of interesting British and Continental cheeses.
>
>
> ?
> Graeme Wall
>
>
> > On 26 Feb 2020, at 00:50, John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >
> > Mrs Bells Blue
> >
> > Waitrose
> >
> > John V
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On 25 Feb 2020, at 21:35, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Living as I do in Black Bomber country, I can confirm that it is head
> and shoulders above all other cheeses, its flavour and creamy texture are
> mouth-wateringly more-is. I have one truckle in the fridge as we speak
> (email?) and also a truckle of their Ruby Mist (Port flavoured cheese). Our
> local garden centre - Fron Goch, voted best in the UK last year - has the
> full range of their truckles, 200g priced at ?4.30 each, oops, you've just
> missed my disorganised there which was last Monday. I can also recommend
> their Red Storm, which is Red Leicester cheese, and the Amber Mist, whisky
> flavour. The others are very good, depending on your personal preferences.
> >>
> >> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Tech1 mailing list
> >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tech1 mailing list
> > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Wed Feb 26 03:51:50 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 09:51:50 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <CAA7MLyFgDeK9evB+SiftxyWWCKaXbXKZ08dDzwt4q+fQCd2JXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
	<pkfvi9DoOlzFLnUUVjo9A3_Ny60-iDkYp6elu-iktcTVxrIdQ-v87MHPdSAIxUaqlQjbELPng_113jSLIFgWc5kPs1XfH3DQVh7rF7DAvVg=@protonmail.com>
	<5B512258-E487-4F38-92A5-37C0AA8B1E41@vincent68.plus.com>
	<584552DB-320F-485A-90F6-7FF30701C8D2@icloud.com>
	<CAA7MLyFgDeK9evB+SiftxyWWCKaXbXKZ08dDzwt4q+fQCd2JXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9F98CD48-88F4-47DE-B11D-F9F894C2CFF6@icloud.com>

Yes, that?s the one.

? 
Graeme Wall


> On 26 Feb 2020, at 09:50, Bernard Newnham <bernie833 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Is that the one in the alleyway, that you can smell from the High Street?
> 
> On Wed, 26 Feb 2020, 09:44 Graeme Wall via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> We?ve got a very good cheese shop in Guildford, Partisan, specialises in all sorts of interesting British and Continental cheeses.
> 
> 
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
> > On 26 Feb 2020, at 00:50, John Vincent via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> > Mrs Bells Blue
> > 
> > Waitrose
> > 
> > John V
> > 
> > Sent from my iPad
> > 
> >> On 25 Feb 2020, at 21:35, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Living as I do in Black Bomber country, I can confirm that it is head and shoulders above all other cheeses, its flavour and creamy texture are mouth-wateringly more-is. I have one truckle in the fridge as we speak (email?) and also a truckle of their Ruby Mist (Port flavoured cheese). Our local garden centre - Fron Goch, voted best in the UK last year - has the full range of their truckles, 200g priced at ?4.30 each, oops, you've just missed my disorganised there which was last Monday. I can also recommend their Red Storm, which is Red Leicester cheese, and the Amber Mist, whisky flavour. The others are very good, depending on your personal preferences.
> >> 
> >> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> Tech1 mailing list
> >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Tech1 mailing list
> > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dave at davesound.co.uk  Wed Feb 26 04:24:34 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 10:24:34 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <b42ab930-8e56-9ab5-e2f2-d08655088084@gmail.com>
References: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
	<b42ab930-8e56-9ab5-e2f2-d08655088084@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58484d4c7fdave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <b42ab930-8e56-9ab5-e2f2-d08655088084 at gmail.com>,
   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> A Lidl will open here soon. I wonder what they can offer?

Cheap and very good angle grinders. ;-)

-- 
*If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages?

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From dave at davesound.co.uk  Wed Feb 26 04:30:51 2020
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 10:30:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
References: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <58484ddfd6dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb at btinternet.com>,
   dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I eat cheese twice a week as part of an evening meal, eg. steak, egg, 
> and chips! I have always gone for the cheapest per Kg. from Asda, mainly 
> Double Gloucester, which is OK but nothing special. 

I like cheese too, but very rarely go for mousetrap. Find it too bland for
my aging palate.

Brother gave me a selection of cheeses made locally in the NE of Scotland,
all with local names -  you wouldn't find them in any supermarket. And
it's not a part of the world associated with designer cheese. But all were
excellent.

-- 
*Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't*

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From tonynuttall at me.com  Wed Feb 26 05:01:54 2020
From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 11:01:54 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Several VERY Good Cheeses at LIDLE Gromit!
Message-ID: <96af80e1-d660-4f18-a700-b9cc41be3485@me.com>

My favoritees ?MATURE GOUDA , GRUYERE, MANCHEGO.

Tony N. In Cumbria
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From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Wed Feb 26 13:52:34 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 19:52:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they - part 2 - 1946
References: <2005517193.1737763.1582746754679.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2005517193.1737763.1582746754679@mail.yahoo.com>

O.K. everybody. Our collective memories did fairly well for 1959/60. Now, does anyone think that they could manage as far back as 1946?
The following stills are from a Pathe Newsreel, reporting the re-opening of Television at Alexandra Palace, after the War. Can anyone recognise the Cameramen (probably all Engineers, in those days. before they invented Operators), or the Sound Man (I assume all those rotary knobs are sound related). And if you can't name the people, can anyone identify the type of cameras, dollies and equipment being used.
luv, Rog.
















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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Feb 26 16:24:06 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 22:24:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <5B512258-E487-4F38-92A5-37C0AA8B1E41@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
	<pkfvi9DoOlzFLnUUVjo9A3_Ny60-iDkYp6elu-iktcTVxrIdQ-v87MHPdSAIxUaqlQjbELPng_113jSLIFgWc5kPs1XfH3DQVh7rF7DAvVg=@protonmail.com>
	<5B512258-E487-4F38-92A5-37C0AA8B1E41@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <a92e8c01-de74-97eb-f9a3-a7b5222f2b99@btinternet.com>

Thanks Tony and John, Garson's Farm has about a dozen truckles on their 
shelves! Can you freeze them? Their minimum order is ?21 which is three 
400gm. truckles, which would take me months to get through! Cheers, Dave

On 26/02/2020 00:50, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote:
> Mrs Bells Blue
>
> Waitrose
>
> John V
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 25 Feb 2020, at 21:35, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Living as I do in Black Bomber country, I can confirm that it is head and shoulders above all other cheeses, its flavour and creamy texture are mouth-wateringly more-is. I have one truckle in the fridge as we speak (email?) and also a truckle of their Ruby Mist (Port flavoured cheese). Our local garden centre - Fron Goch, voted best in the UK last year - has the full range of their truckles, 200g priced at ?4.30 each, oops, you've just missed my disorganised there which was last Monday. I can also recommend their Red Storm, which is Red Leicester cheese, and the Amber Mist, whisky flavour. The others are very good, depending on your personal preferences.
>>
>> TeaTeaFN - Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Feb 26 16:47:30 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 22:47:30 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Business Travel Show, Olympia
Message-ID: <8b4abef7-1918-da9b-d9dc-491445d607ee@btinternet.com>

Every year I visit the above because many years ago my daughter worked 
in the travel industry and and got me a ticket so I have carried on 
going every year, meeting old friends and enjoying the hospitality (if 
you know what I mean!) There was an enormous amount of tech. on display 
and interviews being put out on the local CCTV?? on many stands. i had a 
chat to some of these teenage (it seemed to me!) camerapersons who were 
mainly freelance trying to get established in the industry. Attached is 
a photo of one of them with his modern PDC gear! Cheers, Dave

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Feb 26 16:54:24 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 22:54:24 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Business Travel Show
Message-ID: <aa3c2c6e-0f59-3516-992f-19d8e8f8383f@btinternet.com>

Of course I meant PSC gear which shows how good the hospitality was! It 
suddenly erupts in the afternoon when all the stands suddenly find their 
alcohol stock and force you to try it! Cheers, hic, Dave



From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 26 17:05:59 2020
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 23:05:59 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Who are they - part 2 - 1946
In-Reply-To: <2005517193.1737763.1582746754679@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2005517193.1737763.1582746754679.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2005517193.1737763.1582746754679@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAA0HHB25Qw7fzFch1EU3pqmQm8L2W8F2w5Wuq+NWhR51d5Wpsw@mail.gmail.com>

Could the camera man in the second picture be a young Cyril Wilkins? I only
knew him as a Technical (Operations) Manager in the 1960s

Best regards Alec

sent from my mobile phone. Apologies for any strange autocorrections.

On Wed, 26 Feb 2020, 19:55 ROGER BUNCE via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> O.K. everybody. Our collective memories did fairly well for 1959/60. Now,
> does anyone think that they could manage as far back as 1946?
>
> The following stills are from a Pathe Newsreel, reporting the re-opening
> of Television at Alexandra Palace, after the War. Can anyone recognise the
> Cameramen (probably all Engineers, in those days. before they invented
> Operators), or the Sound Man (I assume all those rotary knobs are sound
> related). And if you can't name the people, can anyone identify the type of
> cameras, dollies and equipment being used.
>
> luv, Rog.
>
> [image: Inline image]
>
> [image: Inline image]
>
> [image: Inline image]
>
> [image: Inline image]
>
> [image: Inline image]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From waresound at msn.com  Wed Feb 26 17:55:56 2020
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 23:55:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Business Travel Show
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02713783B697DD3972624D7CA7EA0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Hi Dave,
That?s a Ronin Stabilised mount, probably with a Canon 5D on it. Capable of quality every bit as good as anything one might find on broadcast TV. I would worry about the audio, however!  
Cheers,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad mini 5

> On 26 Feb 2020, at 22:54, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ?Of course I meant PSC gear which shows how good the hospitality was! It suddenly erupts in the afternoon when all the stands suddenly find their alcohol stock and force you to try it! Cheers, hic, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 27 08:54:42 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 14:54:42 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: TV Centre History
In-Reply-To: <01ac01d5ed12$894a7490$9bdf5db0$@sympatico.ca>
References: <01ac01d5ed12$894a7490$9bdf5db0$@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <28053399-aa04-add0-9b9d-f8820034f7d0@gmail.com>

Mike du Boulay has this piece of history, courtesy Mary Rider. I wonder 
how many of us have some of those stashed away?

B


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	TV Centre History
Date: 	Wed, 26 Feb 2020 21:06:34 -0500
From: 	Michael Du Boulay <mduboulay at sympatico.ca>
To: 	Michael Du Boulay <mduboulay at sympatico.ca>



Hi Bernie;

I found this piece of history.

regards,

Mike

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From techtone at protonmail.com  Thu Feb 27 14:57:14 2020
From: techtone at protonmail.com (techtone)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 20:57:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <a92e8c01-de74-97eb-f9a3-a7b5222f2b99@btinternet.com>
References: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
	<pkfvi9DoOlzFLnUUVjo9A3_Ny60-iDkYp6elu-iktcTVxrIdQ-v87MHPdSAIxUaqlQjbELPng_113jSLIFgWc5kPs1XfH3DQVh7rF7DAvVg=@protonmail.com>
	<5B512258-E487-4F38-92A5-37C0AA8B1E41@vincent68.plus.com>
	<a92e8c01-de74-97eb-f9a3-a7b5222f2b99@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <RC5FZLccXTQFbUrJ0WQCPSn-d1-XoRo9zh8e9jRRjn3hDTjODYiixkUdftGp9EQ4s1cT90dHMXdT32ETShcUnUCZKnSE3o9ldpiE_IDY6vI=@protonmail.com>

I've never thought of freezing cheese, but I'll ask around when I'm next at any of our local suppliers. OTOH, you may want to conduct your own experiment on a small piece of your favourite, or second favourite cheddar by freezing it for a month, then seeing/tasting the result. Knowing that cheese is often 'matured' for some time in relatively cold locations, slate caves, etc. I have my doubts that freezing it would be in any way beneficial, and may even result in an unpalatable gunge, but I look forward to any experimental data in due course.

TeaTeaFN - Tony


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

??????? Original Message ???????
On Wednesday, 26 February 2020 22:24, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Thanks Tony and John, Garson's Farm has about a dozen truckles on their
> shelves! Can you freeze them? Their minimum order is ?21 which is three
> 400gm. truckles, which would take me months to get through! Cheers, Dave



From peter.neill at icloud.com  Thu Feb 27 16:38:52 2020
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 22:38:52 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <RC5FZLccXTQFbUrJ0WQCPSn-d1-XoRo9zh8e9jRRjn3hDTjODYiixkUdftGp9EQ4s1cT90dHMXdT32ETShcUnUCZKnSE3o9ldpiE_IDY6vI=@protonmail.com>
References: <0ab2d957-1633-8996-7b1c-e1c841f51bdb@btinternet.com>
	<pkfvi9DoOlzFLnUUVjo9A3_Ny60-iDkYp6elu-iktcTVxrIdQ-v87MHPdSAIxUaqlQjbELPng_113jSLIFgWc5kPs1XfH3DQVh7rF7DAvVg=@protonmail.com>
	<5B512258-E487-4F38-92A5-37C0AA8B1E41@vincent68.plus.com>
	<a92e8c01-de74-97eb-f9a3-a7b5222f2b99@btinternet.com>
	<RC5FZLccXTQFbUrJ0WQCPSn-d1-XoRo9zh8e9jRRjn3hDTjODYiixkUdftGp9EQ4s1cT90dHMXdT32ETShcUnUCZKnSE3o9ldpiE_IDY6vI=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <97DA76DB-BB10-444E-ADE6-3BFA26F4406D@icloud.com>

We regularly freeze Cheddar and I would say that its taste and suitability for cooking remains fine.
However on defrosting it becomes somewhat crumbly which may or may not be a problem - you?ll never get a decent slice from it.

Peter Neill





> On 27 Feb 2020, at 20:57, techtone via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I've never thought of freezing cheese, but I'll ask around when I'm next at any of our local suppliers. OTOH, you may want to conduct your own experiment on a small piece of your favourite, or second favourite cheddar by freezing it for a month, then seeing/tasting the result. Knowing that cheese is often 'matured' for some time in relatively cold locations, slate caves, etc. I have my doubts that freezing it would be in any way beneficial, and may even result in an unpalatable gunge, but I look forward to any experimental data in due course.
> 
> TeaTeaFN - Tony
> 
> 
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> 
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On Wednesday, 26 February 2020 22:24, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Tony and John, Garson's Farm has about a dozen truckles on their
>> shelves! Can you freeze them? Their minimum order is ?21 which is three
>> 400gm. truckles, which would take me months to get through! Cheers, Dave
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From tuckergarth at me.com  Fri Feb 28 05:29:47 2020
From: tuckergarth at me.com (Garth Tucker)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 11:29:47 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
Message-ID: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>

Please, can we not use this website to let everyone know about our affluent life styles, I do not care who likes what cheese.

Garth

From hughsheppard at btinternet.com  Fri Feb 28 06:22:17 2020
From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:22:17 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
Message-ID: <f7307d56-ef24-6d81-367b-b6913fa9fb55@btinternet.com>

Agreed!? It cheeses me off too!

Hugh

On 28-Feb-20 11:29 AM, Garth Tucker via Tech1 wrote:
> Please, can we not use this website to let everyone know about our affluent life styles, I do not care who likes what cheese.
>
> Garth

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From jccglass at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 06:32:24 2020
From: jccglass at gmail.com (Chris on gmail)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:32:24 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
	<f7307d56-ef24-6d81-367b-b6913fa9fb55@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <8F64C8BDF6BC4E7B82F5E8170A04E57C@dell9100>


AAAA and now for nice bit of Wensleyday
what about you Grommit?


From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 06:38:55 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:38:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <8F64C8BDF6BC4E7B82F5E8170A04E57C@dell9100>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
	<f7307d56-ef24-6d81-367b-b6913fa9fb55@btinternet.com>
	<8F64C8BDF6BC4E7B82F5E8170A04E57C@dell9100>
Message-ID: <CAA7MLyH+8qb8hVxm=BoR3X2idh6OLKeVvF_cOW3w55vhAdcgRA@mail.gmail.com>

Personally, I was making notes. New things to try.

B

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, 12:32 Chris on gmail via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

>
> AAAA and now for nice bit of Wensleyday
> what about you Grommit?
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Fri Feb 28 06:42:14 2020
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:42:14 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
Message-ID: <bf884817-3440-5516-4f71-31463cbbd9be@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Does discussing the how big a TV you have, and how you obtain your HD 
signal count as "affluent lifestyle"?

Methinks cheese is a lot more basic!

Chris Woolf


On 28/02/2020 11:29, Garth Tucker via Tech1 wrote:
> Please, can we not use this website to let everyone know about our affluent life styles, I do not care who likes what cheese.
>
> Garth


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Feb 28 08:27:51 2020
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 14:27:51 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <CAA7MLyH+8qb8hVxm=BoR3X2idh6OLKeVvF_cOW3w55vhAdcgRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
	<f7307d56-ef24-6d81-367b-b6913fa9fb55@btinternet.com>
	<8F64C8BDF6BC4E7B82F5E8170A04E57C@dell9100>
	<CAA7MLyH+8qb8hVxm=BoR3X2idh6OLKeVvF_cOW3w55vhAdcgRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5e592368.1c69fb81.1ad5c.9902@mx.google.com>

Personally, I feel that the Tech-Ops Chat site replaces the Tea-Bar camaraderie that was prevalent at TVC.
Any subject was aired, if you did not agree, just walk away, but it was a forum for discussion.
(Think the Romans had a similar, much earlier version!)
I?m sure that Bernie, as moderator, would clamp down on any subject considered to be ?out-of-order?
We?ve had so much intercourse on diverse subjects, and surely some being of help to others.
Let?s not restrict subjects which might be of interest to maybe just a few.
Regarding cheese, we might next consider the best crackers to go with it!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 28 February 2020 12:39
To: Chris on gmail
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Cheese

Personally, I was making notes. New things to try.

B

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, 12:32 Chris on gmail via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

AAAA and now for nice bit of Wensleyday
what about you Grommit?

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From alawrance1 at me.com  Fri Feb 28 08:48:48 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 14:48:48 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <5e592368.1c69fb81.1ad5c.9902@mx.google.com>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
	<f7307d56-ef24-6d81-367b-b6913fa9fb55@btinternet.com>
	<8F64C8BDF6BC4E7B82F5E8170A04E57C@dell9100>
	<CAA7MLyH+8qb8hVxm=BoR3X2idh6OLKeVvF_cOW3w55vhAdcgRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e592368.1c69fb81.1ad5c.9902@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E47D171D-4200-4AF3-A53A-350D4AA345A8@me.com>

As a change of subject, there's a nice pic of Eric Burdon and the Animals on today's page of the Radio Times, along with two Marconi IVs on 'Ready Steady Go'.
Anyone know/guess the operators?

And for cheese we often have Colston Bassett <https://www.colstonbassettdairy.co.uk/> Stilton and Berkswell <https://cheese.com/berkswell/>, as well as Stinking Bishop - the smell belies its wonderfulness.

Alasdair Lawrance
alawrance1 at me.com

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.










> On 28 Feb 2020, at 14:27, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Personally, I feel that the Tech-Ops Chat site replaces the Tea-Bar camaraderie that was prevalent at TVC.
> Any subject was aired, if you did not agree, just walk away, but it was a forum for discussion.
> (Think the Romans had a similar, much earlier version!)
> I?m sure that Bernie, as moderator, would clamp down on any subject considered to be ?out-of-order?
> We?ve had so much intercourse on diverse subjects, and surely some being of help to others.
> Let?s not restrict subjects which might be of interest to maybe just a few.
> Regarding cheese, we might next consider the best crackers to go with it!
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: 28 February 2020 12:39
> To: Chris on gmail <mailto:jccglass at gmail.com>
> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Cheese
>  
> Personally, I was making notes. New things to try.
>  
> B
>  
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, 12:32 Chris on gmail via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
> AAAA and now for nice bit of Wensleyday
> what about you Grommit?
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>  
> 
> 
>  <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>	
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>  <x-msg://1/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
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From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Fri Feb 28 09:16:53 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:16:53 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <5e592368.1c69fb81.1ad5c.9902@mx.google.com>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
	<f7307d56-ef24-6d81-367b-b6913fa9fb55@btinternet.com>
	<8F64C8BDF6BC4E7B82F5E8170A04E57C@dell9100>
	<CAA7MLyH+8qb8hVxm=BoR3X2idh6OLKeVvF_cOW3w55vhAdcgRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e592368.1c69fb81.1ad5c.9902@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <F2265139-6D6A-46B6-98A7-B612690AA042@vincent68.plus.com>

Jacobs High Fibre!

John V

Sent from my iPad

> On 28 Feb 2020, at 14:27, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Personally, I feel that the Tech-Ops Chat site replaces the Tea-Bar camaraderie that was prevalent at TVC.
> Any subject was aired, if you did not agree, just walk away, but it was a forum for discussion.
> (Think the Romans had a similar, much earlier version!)
> I?m sure that Bernie, as moderator, would clamp down on any subject considered to be ?out-of-order?
> We?ve had so much intercourse on diverse subjects, and surely some being of help to others.
> Let?s not restrict subjects which might be of interest to maybe just a few.
> Regarding cheese, we might next consider the best crackers to go with it!
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
> Sent: 28 February 2020 12:39
> To: Chris on gmail
> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Cheese
>  
> Personally, I was making notes. New things to try.
>  
> B
>  
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, 12:32 Chris on gmail via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> AAAA and now for nice bit of Wensleyday
> what about you Grommit?
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>  
> 
> 
>   			 			
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 09:20:23 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:20:23 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Not Cheese at all
In-Reply-To: <E47D171D-4200-4AF3-A53A-350D4AA345A8@me.com>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
	<f7307d56-ef24-6d81-367b-b6913fa9fb55@btinternet.com>
	<8F64C8BDF6BC4E7B82F5E8170A04E57C@dell9100>
	<CAA7MLyH+8qb8hVxm=BoR3X2idh6OLKeVvF_cOW3w55vhAdcgRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e592368.1c69fb81.1ad5c.9902@mx.google.com>
	<E47D171D-4200-4AF3-A53A-350D4AA345A8@me.com>
Message-ID: <5aa28861-a0ca-e590-93ad-70c7c88a3ce3@gmail.com>

Any chance of a scan, for those of us who haven't had the magazine since 
we picked it up in the club.

B


On 28/02/2020 14:48, Alasdair Lawrance wrote:
> As a change of subject, there's a nice pic of Eric Burdon and the 
> Animals on today's page of the Radio Times, along with two Marconi IVs 
> on 'Ready Steady Go'.
> Anyone know/guess the operators?
>
> And for cheese we often have Colston Bassett 
> <https://www.colstonbassettdairy.co.uk/>?Stilton and Berkswell 
> <https://cheese.com/berkswell/>, as well as Stinking Bishop - the 
> smell belies its wonderfulness.
>
> Alasdair Lawrance
> alawrance1 at me.com <mailto:alawrance1 at me.com>
>
> /*Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.*
> /
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 28 Feb 2020, at 14:27, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
>> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> Personally, I feel that the Tech-Ops Chat site replaces the Tea-Bar 
>> camaraderie that was prevalent at TVC.
>> Any subject was aired, if you did not agree, just walk away, but it 
>> was a forum for discussion.
>> (Think the Romans had a similar, much earlier version!)
>> I?m sure that Bernie, as moderator, would clamp down on any subject 
>> considered to be ?out-of-order?
>> We?ve had so much intercourse on diverse subjects, and surely some 
>> being of help to others.
>> Let?s not restrict subjects which might be of interest to maybe just 
>> a few.
>> Regarding cheese, we might next consider the best crackers to go with it!
>> Pat
>> Sent fromMail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>for 
>> Windows 10
>> *From:*Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Sent:*28 February 2020 12:39
>> *To:*Chris on gmail <mailto:jccglass at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:*Tech1 at tech-ops <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Subject:*Re: [Tech1] Cheese
>> Personally, I was making notes. New things to try.
>> B
>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, 12:32 Chris on gmail via Tech1, 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> AAAA and now for nice bit of Wensleyday
>> what about you Grommit?
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

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From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 28 09:50:11 2020
From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 15:50:11 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] Eric Burdon and the Animals pic
Message-ID: <003201d5ee4e$c2db0110$48910330$@gmail.com>

Hi Bernie & all,

 

Cheesey or not, here?s the picture of Eric Burdon and the Animals from today?s page of Radio Times as asked,

 

Geoff Hawkes

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 28 February 2020 15:20
Cc: Tech Ops List <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Not Cheese at all

 

Any chance of a scan, for those of us who haven't had the magazine since we picked it up in the club.

B



On 28/02/2020 14:48, Alasdair Lawrance wrote:

As a change of subject, there's a nice pic of Eric Burdon and the Animals on today's page of the Radio Times, along with two Marconi IVs on 'Ready Steady Go'. 

Anyone know/guess the operators?

 

And for cheese we often have Colston Bassett <https://www.colstonbassettdairy.co.uk/>  Stilton and Berkswell <https://cheese.com/berkswell/> , as well as Stinking Bishop - the smell belies its wonderfulness.

 

Alasdair Lawrance
alawrance1 at me.com <mailto:alawrance1 at me.com> 

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.














On 28 Feb 2020, at 14:27, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

 

Personally, I feel that the Tech-Ops Chat site replaces the Tea-Bar camaraderie that was prevalent at TVC.

Any subject was aired, if you did not agree, just walk away, but it was a forum for discussion.

(Think the Romans had a similar, much earlier version!)

I?m sure that Bernie, as moderator, would clamp down on any subject considered to be ?out-of-order?

We?ve had so much intercourse on diverse subjects, and surely some being of help to others.

Let?s not restrict subjects which might be of interest to maybe just a few.

Regarding cheese, we might next consider the best crackers to go with it!

Pat

 

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10

 

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Sent: 28 February 2020 12:39
To: Chris on gmail <mailto:jccglass at gmail.com> 
Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Cheese

 

Personally, I was making notes. New things to try.

 

B

 

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, 12:32 Chris on gmail via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:


AAAA and now for nice bit of Wensleyday
what about you Grommit?

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

 

 


  _____  


 <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 

 

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
 <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
 <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

 

 

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From mibridge at mac.com  Fri Feb 28 11:36:19 2020
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 17:36:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Not Cheese at all
In-Reply-To: <5aa28861-a0ca-e590-93ad-70c7c88a3ce3@gmail.com>
References: <5aa28861-a0ca-e590-93ad-70c7c88a3ce3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DC390761-B148-47BF-9692-29EB45B63744@mac.com>

A local creamery makes a cheese called ?Dirty Vicar? - I know the reverend gentleman whom they named it after and he?s an all-round good fellow. He was standing behind a couple in a farm shop where it?s sold and the chap said to his wife ?I?d like to meet the Vicar that was named after!? to which my holy acquaintance rejoined ?Good afternoon - let me introduce myself!?

Mike G

> On 28 Feb 2020, at 15:21, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Any chance of a scan, for those of us who haven't had the magazine since we picked it up in the club.
> 
> B
> 
> 
> On 28/02/2020 14:48, Alasdair Lawrance wrote:
>> As a change of subject, there's a nice pic of Eric Burdon and the Animals on today's page of the Radio Times, along with two Marconi IVs on 'Ready Steady Go'.
>> Anyone know/guess the operators?
>> 
>> And for cheese we often have Colston Bassett Stilton and Berkswell, as well as Stinking Bishop - the smell belies its wonderfulness.
>> 
>> Alasdair Lawrance
>> alawrance1 at me.com
>> 
>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 28 Feb 2020, at 14:27, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Personally, I feel that the Tech-Ops Chat site replaces the Tea-Bar camaraderie that was prevalent at TVC.
>>> Any subject was aired, if you did not agree, just walk away, but it was a forum for discussion.
>>> (Think the Romans had a similar, much earlier version!)
>>> I?m sure that Bernie, as moderator, would clamp down on any subject considered to be ?out-of-order?
>>> We?ve had so much intercourse on diverse subjects, and surely some being of help to others.
>>> Let?s not restrict subjects which might be of interest to maybe just a few.
>>> Regarding cheese, we might next consider the best crackers to go with it!
>>> Pat
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>  
>>> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
>>> Sent: 28 February 2020 12:39
>>> To: Chris on gmail
>>> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Cheese
>>>  
>>> Personally, I was making notes. New things to try.
>>>  
>>> B
>>>  
>>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, 12:32 Chris on gmail via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> AAAA and now for nice bit of Wensleyday
>>> what about you Grommit?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 	
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Feb 28 17:18:03 2020
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 23:18:03 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
Message-ID: <16d45060-2ad9-07cd-917f-37d4a048221a@btinternet.com>

Oh dear, have I hit a raw nerve? I have never thought that eating cheese 
was the sign of an 'affluent lifestyle'! Bread and cheese was the staple 
diet for the poor many years ago! I was merely highlighting the 
profiteering of certain retail outlets, depending where you happen to 
live. Everyone has their favourite food and if you think someone else 
may enjoy it why not spread the news? Cheers, Dave

On 28/02/2020 11:29, Garth Tucker via Tech1 wrote:
> Please, can we not use this website to let everyone know about our affluent life styles, I do not care who likes what cheese.
>
> Garth


From alawrance1 at me.com  Sat Feb 29 06:07:04 2020
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 12:07:04 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Not Cheese at all
In-Reply-To: <5aa28861-a0ca-e590-93ad-70c7c88a3ce3@gmail.com>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
	<f7307d56-ef24-6d81-367b-b6913fa9fb55@btinternet.com>
	<8F64C8BDF6BC4E7B82F5E8170A04E57C@dell9100>
	<CAA7MLyH+8qb8hVxm=BoR3X2idh6OLKeVvF_cOW3w55vhAdcgRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e592368.1c69fb81.1ad5c.9902@mx.google.com>
	<E47D171D-4200-4AF3-A53A-350D4AA345A8@me.com>
	<5aa28861-a0ca-e590-93ad-70c7c88a3ce3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91F39B7D-849E-483E-BE37-39316F078322@me.com>

Here's a scan.....



Alasdair Lawrance
alawrance1 at me.com

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.










> On 28 Feb 2020, at 15:20, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Any chance of a scan, for those of us who haven't had the magazine since we picked it up in the club.
> 
> B
> 
> 
> On 28/02/2020 14:48, Alasdair Lawrance wrote:
>> As a change of subject, there's a nice pic of Eric Burdon and the Animals on today's page of the Radio Times, along with two Marconi IVs on 'Ready Steady Go'.
>> Anyone know/guess the operators?
>> 
>> And for cheese we often have Colston Bassett <https://www.colstonbassettdairy.co.uk/> Stilton and Berkswell <https://cheese.com/berkswell/>, as well as Stinking Bishop - the smell belies its wonderfulness.
>> 
>> Alasdair Lawrance
>> alawrance1 at me.com <mailto:alawrance1 at me.com>
>> 
>> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 28 Feb 2020, at 14:27, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Personally, I feel that the Tech-Ops Chat site replaces the Tea-Bar camaraderie that was prevalent at TVC.
>>> Any subject was aired, if you did not agree, just walk away, but it was a forum for discussion.
>>> (Think the Romans had a similar, much earlier version!)
>>> I?m sure that Bernie, as moderator, would clamp down on any subject considered to be ?out-of-order?
>>> We?ve had so much intercourse on diverse subjects, and surely some being of help to others.
>>> Let?s not restrict subjects which might be of interest to maybe just a few.
>>> Regarding cheese, we might next consider the best crackers to go with it!
>>> Pat
>>>  
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>>>  
>>> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> Sent: 28 February 2020 12:39
>>> To: Chris on gmail <mailto:jccglass at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Tech1 at tech-ops <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Cheese
>>>  
>>> Personally, I was making notes. New things to try.
>>>  
>>> B
>>>  
>>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, 12:32 Chris on gmail via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> AAAA and now for nice bit of Wensleyday
>>> what about you Grommit?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>	
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
>>> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From johnk.farr at tiscali.co.uk  Sat Feb 29 07:22:16 2020
From: johnk.farr at tiscali.co.uk (john farr)
Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 13:22:16 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] FW: Can't find any face masks?!!
In-Reply-To: <1582981397.6ojbim7pwcc88g8k@webmail.uwclub.net>
References: <1582566508.24qvj9i8kkocssc8@webmail.uwclub.net>
	<1582892076.wljaknw4ggcgcs4c@webmail.uwclub.net>
	<1582981397.6ojbim7pwcc88g8k@webmail.uwclub.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.4.1582982561.905991.tech1_tech-ops.co.uk@tech-ops.co.uk>

Why not try this

Got this from a friend
John




Sent from Mail for Windows 10


(With thanks to Pete Summerskill and friends) 

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From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Sat Feb 29 07:36:11 2020
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 13:36:11 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Not Cheese at all
In-Reply-To: <91F39B7D-849E-483E-BE37-39316F078322@me.com>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
	<f7307d56-ef24-6d81-367b-b6913fa9fb55@btinternet.com>
	<8F64C8BDF6BC4E7B82F5E8170A04E57C@dell9100>
	<CAA7MLyH+8qb8hVxm=BoR3X2idh6OLKeVvF_cOW3w55vhAdcgRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e592368.1c69fb81.1ad5c.9902@mx.google.com>
	<E47D171D-4200-4AF3-A53A-350D4AA345A8@me.com>
	<5aa28861-a0ca-e590-93ad-70c7c88a3ce3@gmail.com>
	<91F39B7D-849E-483E-BE37-39316F078322@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJ=4Qf+xswmKOKT=AzTscbS4Zyy216G2aQ_CC_BToXC5Bw@mail.gmail.com>

Here's another picture from the same session. I found it by searching on
Google images.
KW

[image:
eric-burdon-on-vocals-with-alan-price-on-keyboards-on-ready-steadygo-F4D8KJ.jpg]

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 at 12:08, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <
tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Here's a scan.....
> [image: page1image37498864]
>
>
> Alasdair Lawrance
> alawrance1 at me.com
>
>
> *Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 28 Feb 2020, at 15:20, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> Any chance of a scan, for those of us who haven't had the magazine since
> we picked it up in the club.
>
> B
>
>
> On 28/02/2020 14:48, Alasdair Lawrance wrote:
>
> As a change of subject, there's a nice pic of Eric Burdon and the Animals
> on today's page of the Radio Times, along with two Marconi IVs on 'Ready
> Steady Go'.
> Anyone know/guess the operators?
>
> And for cheese we often have Colston Bassett
> <https://www.colstonbassettdairy.co.uk/> Stilton and Berkswell
> <https://cheese.com/berkswell/>, as well as Stinking Bishop - the smell
> belies its wonderfulness.
>
> Alasdair Lawrance
> alawrance1 at me.com
>
>
> *Don?t blame me, I voted Remain. *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 28 Feb 2020, at 14:27, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> Personally, I feel that the Tech-Ops Chat site replaces the Tea-Bar
> camaraderie that was prevalent at TVC.
> Any subject was aired, if you did not agree, just walk away, but it was a
> forum for discussion.
> (Think the Romans had a similar, much earlier version!)
> I?m sure that Bernie, as moderator, would clamp down on any subject
> considered to be ?out-of-order?
> We?ve had so much intercourse on diverse subjects, and surely some being
> of help to others.
> Let?s not restrict subjects which might be of interest to maybe just a few.
> Regarding cheese, we might next consider the best crackers to go with it!
> Pat
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
> *From: *Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Sent: *28 February 2020 12:39
> *To: *Chris on gmail <jccglass at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *Tech1 at tech-ops <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Cheese
>
> Personally, I was making notes. New things to try.
>
> B
>
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, 12:32 Chris on gmail via Tech1, <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> AAAA and now for nice bit of Wensleyday
> what about you Grommit?
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Sat Feb 29 07:39:55 2020
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 13:39:55 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Tea Bar Talk
Message-ID: <1F2A91F7-C362-4EAF-9154-11B093717E52@vincent68.plus.com>

Pat?s right.

This site does remind me of the topics we used to talk about.

Cars and central heating installing were others.

My last few years it was food with my lot.. Had some very enthusiastic chilli aficionados.

. One used to collect the most extreme sauces on the planet. ?Arse in Space? was one. 

Long may it continue.

John V

Sent from my iPad


From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 29 10:02:49 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 16:02:49 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Not Cheese at all
In-Reply-To: <CAA=qGJ=4Qf+xswmKOKT=AzTscbS4Zyy216G2aQ_CC_BToXC5Bw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
	<f7307d56-ef24-6d81-367b-b6913fa9fb55@btinternet.com>
	<8F64C8BDF6BC4E7B82F5E8170A04E57C@dell9100>
	<CAA7MLyH+8qb8hVxm=BoR3X2idh6OLKeVvF_cOW3w55vhAdcgRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e592368.1c69fb81.1ad5c.9902@mx.google.com>
	<E47D171D-4200-4AF3-A53A-350D4AA345A8@me.com>
	<5aa28861-a0ca-e590-93ad-70c7c88a3ce3@gmail.com>
	<91F39B7D-849E-483E-BE37-39316F078322@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=4Qf+xswmKOKT=AzTscbS4Zyy216G2aQ_CC_BToXC5Bw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7cda6266-2071-7d4b-7290-f54ec075ccd7@gmail.com>

As the crew - presumably - work for Rediffusion, we are probably not 
going to know them

B



On 29/02/2020 13:36, Keith Wicks wrote:
> Here's another picture from the same session. I found it by searching 
> on Google images.
> KW
>
> eric-burdon-on-vocals-with-alan-price-on-keyboards-on-ready-steadygo-F4D8KJ.jpg
>
> On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 at 12:08, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>     Here's a scan.....
>     page1image37498864
>
>
>     Alasdair Lawrance
>     alawrance1 at me.com <mailto:alawrance1 at me.com>
>
>     /*Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.*
>     /
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>     On 28 Feb 2020, at 15:20, Bernard Newnham via Tech1
>>     <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>     Any chance of a scan, for those of us who haven't had the
>>     magazine since we picked it up in the club.
>>
>>     B
>>
>>
>>     On 28/02/2020 14:48, Alasdair Lawrance wrote:
>>>     As a change of subject, there's a nice pic of Eric Burdon and
>>>     the Animals on today's page of the Radio Times, along with two
>>>     Marconi IVs on 'Ready Steady Go'.
>>>     Anyone know/guess the operators?
>>>
>>>     And for cheese we often have Colston Bassett
>>>     <https://www.colstonbassettdairy.co.uk/>?Stilton and Berkswell
>>>     <https://cheese.com/berkswell/>, as well as Stinking Bishop -
>>>     the smell belies its wonderfulness.
>>>
>>>     Alasdair Lawrance
>>>     alawrance1 at me.com <mailto:alawrance1 at me.com>
>>>
>>>     /*Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.*
>>>     /
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>     On 28 Feb 2020, at 14:27, patheigham via Tech1
>>>>     <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Personally, I feel that the Tech-Ops Chat site replaces the
>>>>     Tea-Bar camaraderie that was prevalent at TVC.
>>>>     Any subject was aired, if you did not agree, just walk away,
>>>>     but it was a forum for discussion.
>>>>     (Think the Romans had a similar, much earlier version!)
>>>>     I?m sure that Bernie, as moderator, would clamp down on any
>>>>     subject considered to be ?out-of-order?
>>>>     We?ve had so much intercourse on diverse subjects, and surely
>>>>     some being of help to others.
>>>>     Let?s not restrict subjects which might be of interest to maybe
>>>>     just a few.
>>>>     Regarding cheese, we might next consider the best crackers to
>>>>     go with it!
>>>>     Pat
>>>>     Sent fromMail
>>>>     <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>for Windows 10
>>>>     *From:*Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>>     *Sent:*28 February 2020 12:39
>>>>     *To:*Chris on gmail <mailto:jccglass at gmail.com>
>>>>     *Cc:*Tech1 at tech-ops <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>>     *Subject:*Re: [Tech1] Cheese
>>>>     Personally, I was making notes. New things to try.
>>>>     B
>>>>     On Fri, 28 Feb 2020, 12:32 Chris on gmail via Tech1,
>>>>     <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     AAAA and now for nice bit of Wensleyday
>>>>     what about you Grommit?
>>>>
>>>>     --
>>>>     Tech1 mailing list
>>>>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>     Avast logo <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> 	
>>>>
>>>>     This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
>>>>     software.
>>>>     www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     --
>>>>     Tech1 mailing list
>>>>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Tech1 mailing list
>>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 29 10:22:35 2020
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 16:22:35 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <16d45060-2ad9-07cd-917f-37d4a048221a@btinternet.com>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
	<16d45060-2ad9-07cd-917f-37d4a048221a@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <f1585c93-4047-d77a-02a1-c5d67520042b@gmail.com>

I don't think, personally, I'm in any way ashamed of having a lifestyle 
affluent enough to buy cheese types that I'd never heard of in my 
youth.? Like many here, I imagine, I have very 'umble roots, didn't go 
to university, and got where I am by crawling up the BBC greasy pole.? I 
know at least one here (not me, I had to give up) whose self improvement 
route included doing an Open University degree with one hand whilst 
operating a camera with the other - naming no names.

So - by the powers vested in me - as Pat says, I am reluctant moderator 
('cos I pay for the website and the list), I personally have no problem 
at all with talk of cheese or any other food stuff, or pretty much 
anything else. We are mostly old gits now, and I for one spent the first 
half of my life with no money at all, so I am proud to have bettered 
myself in my later years, and if I want to buy Ossau-Iraty and say so, I 
shall.

The only rules here, unless I arbitrarily change them, are no politics 
and no fighting. Please chat about anything, and buy Garth a drink at 
the DCB to cheer him up.? Now - who's for a discussion on the relative 
merits of Maine or UK lobsters?

B




On 28/02/2020 23:18, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
> Oh dear, have I hit a raw nerve? I have never thought that eating 
> cheese was the sign of an 'affluent lifestyle'! Bread and cheese was 
> the staple diet for the poor many years ago! I was merely highlighting 
> the profiteering of certain retail outlets, depending where you happen 
> to live. Everyone has their favourite food and if you think someone 
> else may enjoy it why not spread the news? Cheers, Dave
>
> On 28/02/2020 11:29, Garth Tucker via Tech1 wrote:
>> Please, can we not use this website to let everyone know about our 
>> affluent life styles, I do not care who likes what cheese.
>>
>> Garth
>

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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 29 11:44:19 2020
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 17:44:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Not Cheese at all - you Animals
In-Reply-To: <7cda6266-2071-7d4b-7290-f54ec075ccd7@gmail.com>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
	<f7307d56-ef24-6d81-367b-b6913fa9fb55@btinternet.com>
	<8F64C8BDF6BC4E7B82F5E8170A04E57C@dell9100>
	<CAA7MLyH+8qb8hVxm=BoR3X2idh6OLKeVvF_cOW3w55vhAdcgRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e592368.1c69fb81.1ad5c.9902@mx.google.com>
	<E47D171D-4200-4AF3-A53A-350D4AA345A8@me.com>
	<5aa28861-a0ca-e590-93ad-70c7c88a3ce3@gmail.com>
	<91F39B7D-849E-483E-BE37-39316F078322@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=4Qf+xswmKOKT=AzTscbS4Zyy216G2aQ_CC_BToXC5Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7cda6266-2071-7d4b-7290-f54ec075ccd7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <655e15f8-836f-f5fb-6446-2f245b19c40c@gmail.com>

....and the cameras are "branded"? R S G !? (and were often (always?) in 
shot!)

-- 
Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502




From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Feb 29 11:46:10 2020
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:46:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Cheese
In-Reply-To: <f1585c93-4047-d77a-02a1-c5d67520042b@gmail.com>
References: <f1585c93-4047-d77a-02a1-c5d67520042b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <75F4E284-454A-4AA1-A881-F3A44C6326C2@me.com>

O was a bit taken aback when served a lobster in Maine. I asked why they hadn?t also provided a selection of tools to crack open the shell. 

It was explained to me that they were soft shell lobsters and didn?t need anything other than strong fingers to open them up. 

Shame they call scones biscuits, but they?re lovely too. 

Alan



> On 29 Feb 2020, at 17:23, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> ? Now - who's for a discussion on the relative merits of Maine or UK lobsters?
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 28/02/2020 23:18, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
>> Oh dear, have I hit a raw nerve? I have never thought that eating cheese was the sign of an 'affluent lifestyle'! Bread and cheese was the staple diet for the poor many years ago! I was merely highlighting the profiteering of certain retail outlets, depending where you happen to live. Everyone has their favourite food and if you think someone else may enjoy it why not spread the news? Cheers, Dave 
>> 
>>> On 28/02/2020 11:29, Garth Tucker via Tech1 wrote: 
>>> Please, can we not use this website to let everyone know about our affluent life styles, I do not care who likes what cheese. 
>>> 
>>> Garth 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sat Feb 29 12:18:25 2020
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:18:25 -0000
Subject: [Tech1] One show "mess up" on Wednesday
Message-ID: <A6325F2C7E914582BCA769D515D6198C@Gigabyte>

I never watch it now but Evening Standard (sorry again) put up a report of the c**k-up on the show with some singing group where the in-ear or foldback didn?t work and so the audience heard the track and the performers never even turned around as presumably didn?t get a cue!
Looks like earpieces were not working or not enough foldback. Love the presumably fake radio mics as well! 
All very embarrassing considering it took place outside the door of New BH Extension.
Watch the brief bit here https://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/celebrity-news/pussyct-dolls-the-one-show-tech-issue-a4372886.html
or iPlayer for 26th at almost the end. That also shows packs clipped to very basic bras!

Mike
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From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Sat Feb 29 12:27:12 2020
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:27:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Not Cheese at all - you Animals
In-Reply-To: <655e15f8-836f-f5fb-6446-2f245b19c40c@gmail.com>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
	<f7307d56-ef24-6d81-367b-b6913fa9fb55@btinternet.com>
	<8F64C8BDF6BC4E7B82F5E8170A04E57C@dell9100>
	<CAA7MLyH+8qb8hVxm=BoR3X2idh6OLKeVvF_cOW3w55vhAdcgRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e592368.1c69fb81.1ad5c.9902@mx.google.com>
	<E47D171D-4200-4AF3-A53A-350D4AA345A8@me.com>
	<5aa28861-a0ca-e590-93ad-70c7c88a3ce3@gmail.com>
	<91F39B7D-849E-483E-BE37-39316F078322@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=4Qf+xswmKOKT=AzTscbS4Zyy216G2aQ_CC_BToXC5Bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7cda6266-2071-7d4b-7290-f54ec075ccd7@gmail.com>
	<655e15f8-836f-f5fb-6446-2f245b19c40c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1802831565.3947739.1583000832266@mail.yahoo.com>

 Curiously, that was the brief period when it was fashionable show cameras in shot, but not the lights. Ever since, it has been fashionable to show lights, while avoiding cameras. Never understood that. Doesn't television need both?
luv, Rog.
    On Saturday, 29 February 2020, 17:44:49 GMT, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:  
 
 ....and the cameras are "branded"? R S G !? (and were often (always?) in 
shot!)

-- 
Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:? ? 07789 561 346
home:? 0118 981 7502



-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
  
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sat Feb 29 12:37:08 2020
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:37:08 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Not Cheese at all - you Animals
In-Reply-To: <1802831565.3947739.1583000832266@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <9646DA3F-60C7-418A-8B37-B3BEDAFD1DE7@me.com>
	<f7307d56-ef24-6d81-367b-b6913fa9fb55@btinternet.com>
	<8F64C8BDF6BC4E7B82F5E8170A04E57C@dell9100>
	<CAA7MLyH+8qb8hVxm=BoR3X2idh6OLKeVvF_cOW3w55vhAdcgRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e592368.1c69fb81.1ad5c.9902@mx.google.com>
	<E47D171D-4200-4AF3-A53A-350D4AA345A8@me.com>
	<5aa28861-a0ca-e590-93ad-70c7c88a3ce3@gmail.com>
	<91F39B7D-849E-483E-BE37-39316F078322@me.com>
	<CAA=qGJ=4Qf+xswmKOKT=AzTscbS4Zyy216G2aQ_CC_BToXC5Bw@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <13B65992-AAC7-4120-B685-2143D4CDB841@icloud.com>

Lights and IO tubes don?t mix!

? 
Graeme Wall


> On 29 Feb 2020, at 18:27, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Curiously, that was the brief period when it was fashionable show cameras in shot, but not the lights. Ever since, it has been fashionable to show lights, while avoiding cameras. Never understood that. Doesn't television need both?
> 
> luv, Rog.
> 
> On Saturday, 29 February 2020, 17:44:49 GMT, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> ....and the cameras are "branded"  R S G !  (and were often (always?) in 
> shot!)
> 
> -- 
> Best Regards
> 
> Alec
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:  0118 981 7502
> 
> 
> 
> 
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