From bernie833 at gmail.com Sat Jun 1 17:16:08 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2019 23:16:08 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Al Kerridge Message-ID: <5544b8e9-cb25-ed11-2707-ff9d7cbd46dd@gmail.com> I was just watching Montalbano on BBC4 and it rolled on into Guitar Heroes at the BBC - which started on a Alan Kerridge shot (in, er, !6:9). It was the opening shot of the famous Jimi Hendrix Lulu Show sequence (4:3). I wasn't tracking Alan that day, I was cable bashing (though I did spend the rest of the series tracking Ron on the Nike), but I'd tracked Alan enough times on TOTP to know his style - he loved out of focus drum kit in the foreground, and that first shot is one of his. Here it is in the correct format, and a couple of others. B PS I'm glad I was cable bashing that day - the only time I could ever say that - because I could watch. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2019 11:16 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Al Kerridge I was just watching Montalbano on BBC4 and it rolled on into Guitar Heroes at the BBC - which started on a Alan Kerridge shot (in, er, !6:9). It was the opening shot of the famous Jimi Hendrix Lulu Show sequence (4:3). I wasn't tracking Alan that day, I was cable bashing (though I did spend the rest of the series tracking Ron on the Nike), but I'd tracked Alan enough times on TOTP to know his style - he loved out of focus drum kit in the foreground, and that first shot is one of his. Here it is in the correct format, and a couple of others. B PS I'm glad I was cable bashing that day - the only time I could ever say that - because I could watch. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: nbakgaoagpilncen.png Type: image/png Size: 327303 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: obmkfanlkpkgofaf.png Type: image/png Size: 312853 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pjcpppflmhdamdkp.png Type: image/png Size: 151157 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Sun Jun 2 01:44:14 2019 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 07:44:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Montalbano In-Reply-To: <5544b8e9-cb25-ed11-2707-ff9d7cbd46dd@gmail.com> References: <5544b8e9-cb25-ed11-2707-ff9d7cbd46dd@gmail.com> Message-ID: <63623d8b-72ab-cb0f-afef-4282b0359dc0@gmail.com> Hi All, I too was watching Montalbano on BBC4. My wife and I have watched all the series on BBC4 - well,, it's sort of "Midsomer Murders" but set in Sicily, and my wife is learning Italian.? We have visited Ragusa, and have wandered around outside Montalbano's home in Punta Secca ... Earlier this year, we were in Northern Italy (Molveno, actually, in the ex-Austrian Alto Adige - it was a lovely place!? Italian Food and Austrian environmental planning - almost heaven!) RAI had just started broadcasting the new series of "Montalbano", so of course we watched it in the hotel room.? The picture quality was considerably different - much brighter, sharper etc.? We joked that "Montalbano" looked better in Italian! Well, of course, "Montalbano" was on BBC4 - and (to our eyes) the picture quality looked considerably better than the previous series? - much brighter, sharper etc - in fact, exactly as we had seen in Italy. According to IMDB, the tech specs (certainly for the early series) are: Sound Mix Stereo Color Color Aspect Ratio 1.85 : 1 Camera Arricam LT Arricam ST Arriflex 35 BL3 Negative Format 35 mm Cinematographic Process Super 35 (source format) Printed Film Format Video (HDTV) and the subtitles looked like "the usual" subtitles added during film printing. For this new? series, the subtitles are electronically/digitally produced and overlaid like a "normal"? television caption (whatever that means in these days!). Has the equipment been upgraded?? Has the production process been changed to have end-to-end digital transmission?? I would love to know if there really has been a change in production techniques - there seem to be a lot more companies co-operating in the production of this series (including Warner) - (trying to read the impossible-to-read end credits!) compared to the co-production credits in the past (RAI, Palomar).... Any? clues and comments .... -- Best Regards Alec Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com mob: 07789 561 346 home: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Sun Jun 2 02:39:07 2019 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 08:39:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Montalbano In-Reply-To: <63623d8b-72ab-cb0f-afef-4282b0359dc0@gmail.com> References: <5544b8e9-cb25-ed11-2707-ff9d7cbd46dd@gmail.com> <63623d8b-72ab-cb0f-afef-4282b0359dc0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, partly in answer to my own question(s)... Just been trying to read the end credits of Montalbano: As far as I can make out, There are a couple of people for? "Digital Dailies" and there is a Colourist.? Does that imply digital capture and recording, or some twin film and digital method? Palomar still seems to be the main co-producer, but ... Still Baffled ... -- Best Regards Alec Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com mob: 07789 561 346 home: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bilfnlopilhmnhja.png Type: image/png Size: 970755 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cdpafjojacoaodah.png Type: image/png Size: 266764 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Sun Jun 2 02:43:15 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 08:43:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Montalbano In-Reply-To: <63623d8b-72ab-cb0f-afef-4282b0359dc0@gmail.com> References: <5544b8e9-cb25-ed11-2707-ff9d7cbd46dd@gmail.com> <63623d8b-72ab-cb0f-afef-4282b0359dc0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <90afe1f3-d548-f41e-cf9d-c13122c40f51@gmail.com> I would imagine that for Arricam substitute Arri Alexa.? Though people still shoot films on 35mm (Quentin Tarrantino on 70mm (why?)), most stuff these days is electronic. B On 02/06/2019 07:44, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: > > Hi All, > > I too was watching Montalbano on BBC4. > > My wife and I have watched all the series on BBC4 - well,, it's sort > of "Midsomer Murders" but set in Sicily, and my wife is learning > Italian.? We have visited Ragusa, and have wandered around outside > Montalbano's home in Punta Secca ... > > Earlier this year, we were in Northern Italy (Molveno, actually, in > the ex-Austrian Alto Adige - it was a lovely place!? Italian Food and > Austrian environmental planning - almost heaven!) > > RAI had just started broadcasting the new series of "Montalbano", so > of course we watched it in the hotel room.? The picture quality was > considerably different - much brighter, sharper etc.? We joked that > "Montalbano" looked better in Italian! > > Well, of course, "Montalbano" was on BBC4 - and (to our eyes) the > picture quality looked considerably better than the previous series? - > much brighter, sharper etc - in fact, exactly as we had seen in Italy. > > According to IMDB, the tech specs (certainly for the early series) are: > > Sound Mix Stereo > > Color Color > > Aspect Ratio 1.85 : 1 > Camera Arricam LT > Arricam ST > Arriflex 35 BL3 > Negative Format 35 mm > Cinematographic Process Super 35 (source format) > Printed Film Format Video (HDTV) > > and the subtitles looked like "the usual" subtitles added during film > printing. > > > For this new? series, the subtitles are electronically/digitally > produced and overlaid like a "normal" television caption (whatever > that means in these days!). > > Has the equipment been upgraded?? Has the production process been > changed to have end-to-end digital transmission?? I would love to know > if there really has been a change in production techniques - there > seem to be a lot more companies co-operating in the production of this > series (including Warner) - (trying to read the impossible-to-read end > credits!) compared to the co-production credits in the past (RAI, > Palomar).... > > > Any? clues and comments .... > > > -- > > Best Regards > > Alec > > Alec Bray > > alec.bray.2 at gmail.com > mob: 07789 561 346 > home: 0118 981 7502 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Sun Jun 2 02:55:55 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 08:55:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Montalbano In-Reply-To: References: <5544b8e9-cb25-ed11-2707-ff9d7cbd46dd@gmail.com> <63623d8b-72ab-cb0f-afef-4282b0359dc0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <64c075f3-9089-850a-61dc-f8630dd774c4@gmail.com> One small enjoyment, if you fancy.? The industry standard colourist tool is Da Vinci Resolve, now a complete editing system, also completely free, so you too can be a colourist. B On 02/06/2019 08:39, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: > > Hi all, > > partly in answer to my own question(s)... > > Just been trying to read the end credits of Montalbano: > > > > As far as I can make out, > > There are a couple of people for? "Digital Dailies" and there is a > Colourist.? Does that imply digital capture and recording, or some > twin film and digital method? > > Palomar still seems to be the main co-producer, but ... > > Still Baffled ... > > -- > > Best Regards > > Alec > > Alec Bray > > alec.bray.2 at gmail.com > mob: 07789 561 346 > home: 0118 981 7502 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: dafpepkkdcneehbb.png Type: image/png Size: 462822 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Sun Jun 2 06:46:47 2019 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 12:46:47 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Generation Gap Message-ID: <81a28a6c-f5e0-b58e-8dfc-3714048415e1@gmail.com> http://www.mediafire.com/file/qe77ovwbf6inzzz/01_Generation_gap_-_hair.jpg Me?? I have two daughters .... -- Best Regards Alec Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com mob: 07789 561 346 home: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Sun Jun 2 15:35:24 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 21:35:24 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo Message-ID: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a wooden shed as his garden loo? I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on their about straw bales! Mike G From peter.neill at icloud.com Sun Jun 2 15:39:39 2019 From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 21:39:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> References: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> Message-ID: Magnus Pike? Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. > On 2 Jun 2019, at 21:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > > Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a wooden shed as his garden loo? > > I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on their about straw bales! > > Mike G > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Sun Jun 2 16:17:03 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 22:17:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: References: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> Message-ID: <41D84F5F24B24E3F8E4118165C19E352@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Magnus Pike! Now there's a name to trigger a memory or two. The 'slight eccentricity' was generally amplified by the wildly exaggerated body and arm movements he employed to drive home his message. In my imagination I used to fancy he ran a training school for the new wave of weather presenters who were now required to adopt a much more expansive approach to their forecasting slots. I named it the 'Magnus Pike School of Arm Waving'. Lady presenters began to use their hands more as though they were drying their nail varnish rather than indicating some feature of the weather map. A whole new era opened up where presenting became an art form with technique dominating over content. It's why I want David Attenborough to live for ever - the perfect antidote to the syndrome! Dave Newbitt (ancient cynic). -----Original Message----- From: Peter Neill via Tech1 Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 9:39 PM To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo Magnus Pike? Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. > On 2 Jun 2019, at 21:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 > wrote: > > Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things > innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a > wooden shed as his garden loo? > > I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on > their about straw bales! > > Mike G > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From mibridge at mac.com Sun Jun 2 16:38:42 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 22:38:42 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: <41D84F5F24B24E3F8E4118165C19E352@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> <41D84F5F24B24E3F8E4118165C19E352@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: Of the same sort of vintage as Magnus Pike, I believe, but not as eccentric as him. Avuncular might encapsulate the guy I?m thinking of, and definitely not as much gesticulating! Mike G > On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:17, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > > Magnus Pike! Now there's a name to trigger a memory or two. > > The 'slight eccentricity' was generally amplified by the wildly exaggerated body and arm movements he employed to drive home his message. In my imagination I used to fancy he ran a training school for the new wave of weather presenters who were now required to adopt a much more expansive approach to their forecasting slots. I named it the 'Magnus Pike School of Arm Waving'. Lady presenters began to use their hands more as though they were drying their nail varnish rather than indicating some feature of the weather map. A whole new era opened up where presenting became an art form with technique dominating over content. It's why I want David Attenborough to live for ever - the perfect antidote to the syndrome! > > Dave Newbitt (ancient cynic). > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Peter Neill via Tech1 > Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 9:39 PM > To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo > > Magnus Pike? > > Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. > >> On 2 Jun 2019, at 21:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a wooden shed as his garden loo? >> >> I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on their about straw bales! >> >> Mike G >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From peter.neill at icloud.com Sun Jun 2 16:46:18 2019 From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 22:46:18 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: References: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> <41D84F5F24B24E3F8E4118165C19E352@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <6F9E5C29-F971-4483-AACA-85B4CE222297@icloud.com> Eric Laithwaite? Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. > On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:38, Mike Giles wrote: > > Of the same sort of vintage as Magnus Pike, I believe, but not as eccentric as him. Avuncular might encapsulate the guy I?m thinking of, and definitely not as much gesticulating! > > Mike G > >> On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:17, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Magnus Pike! Now there's a name to trigger a memory or two. >> >> The 'slight eccentricity' was generally amplified by the wildly exaggerated body and arm movements he employed to drive home his message. In my imagination I used to fancy he ran a training school for the new wave of weather presenters who were now required to adopt a much more expansive approach to their forecasting slots. I named it the 'Magnus Pike School of Arm Waving'. Lady presenters began to use their hands more as though they were drying their nail varnish rather than indicating some feature of the weather map. A whole new era opened up where presenting became an art form with technique dominating over content. It's why I want David Attenborough to live for ever - the perfect antidote to the syndrome! >> >> Dave Newbitt (ancient cynic). >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Neill via Tech1 >> Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 9:39 PM >> To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo >> >> Magnus Pike? >> >> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. >> >>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 21:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a wooden shed as his garden loo? >>> >>> I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on their about straw bales! >>> >>> Mike G >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Sun Jun 2 16:55:18 2019 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 22:55:18 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: <41D84F5F24B24E3F8E4118165C19E352@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> <41D84F5F24B24E3F8E4118165C19E352@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: When I first saw him I thought he was using some sort of Semaphore for the Hard of Hearing. Another flamboyant presenter is David Bellamy, who leads me to Brian Blessed who's delivery must charge the radio mic batteries rather than the opposite! Yet another loud voice is Roger Hearing who manages to sound louder than Big Ben at the handover to the World Service on R4 at bedtime. I wonder if he is related to Ann Hearing who used to deal with Sound Equipment Allocationsa t TVC? Hibou. On 02/06/2019 22:17, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > Magnus Pike! Now there's a name to trigger a memory or two. > > The 'slight eccentricity' was generally amplified by the wildly > exaggerated body and arm movements he employed to drive home his > message. In my imagination I used to fancy he ran a training school > for the new wave of weather presenters who were now required to adopt > a much more expansive approach to their forecasting slots. I named it > the 'Magnus Pike School of Arm Waving'. Lady presenters began to use > their hands more as though they were drying their nail varnish rather > than indicating some feature of the weather map. A whole new era > opened up where presenting became an art form with technique > dominating over content. It's why I want David Attenborough to live > for ever - the perfect antidote to the syndrome! > > Dave Newbitt (ancient cynic). > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Peter Neill via Tech1 > Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 9:39 PM > To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo > > Magnus Pike? > > Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. > >> On 2 Jun 2019, at 21:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things >> innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay >> in a wooden shed as his garden loo? >> >> I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on >> their about straw bales! >> >> Mike G >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com Sun Jun 2 17:10:26 2019 From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2019 23:10:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo Message-ID: No, Magnus Pyke was not SLIGHTLY eccentric! You couldn't shoot him closer than an MLS because of the arm windmilling.Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: David Newbitt via Tech1 Date: 02/06/2019 22:17 (GMT+00:00) To: Peter Neill , Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo Magnus Pike! Now there's a name to trigger a memory or two.The 'slight eccentricity' was generally amplified by the wildly exaggerated body and arm movements he employed to drive home his message. In my imagination I used to fancy he ran a training school for the new wave of weather presenters who were now required to adopt a much more expansive approach to their forecasting slots. I named it the 'Magnus Pike School of Arm Waving'. Lady presenters began to use their hands more as though they were drying their nail varnish rather than indicating some feature of the weather map. A whole new era opened up where presenting became an art form with technique dominating over content. It's why I want David Attenborough to live for ever - the perfect antidote to the syndrome!Dave Newbitt (ancient cynic).-----Original Message----- From: Peter Neill via Tech1Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 9:39 PMTo: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.ukSubject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale looMagnus Pike?Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions.> On 2 Jun 2019, at 21:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 > wrote:>> Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things > innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a > wooden shed as his garden loo?>> I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on > their about straw bales!>> Mike G>> -- > Tech1 mailing list> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.neill at icloud.com Sun Jun 2 17:11:29 2019 From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 23:11:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: References: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> <41D84F5F24B24E3F8E4118165C19E352@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: Heinz Wolff? Se -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk.vcf Type: text/directory Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk.vcf Type: text/directory Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- nt from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. > On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:38, Mike Giles wrote: > > Of the same sort of vintage as Magnus Pike, I believe, but not as eccentric as him. Avuncular might encapsulate the guy I?m thinking of, and definitely not as much gesticulating! > > Mike G > >> On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:17, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Magnus Pike! Now there's a name to trigger a memory or two. >> >> The 'slight eccentricity' was generally amplified by the wildly exaggerated body and arm movements he employed to drive home his message. In my imagination I used to fancy he ran a training school for the new wave of weather presenters who were now required to adopt a much more expansive approach to their forecasting slots. I named it the 'Magnus Pike School of Arm Waving'. Lady presenters began to use their hands more as though they were drying their nail varnish rather than indicating some feature of the weather map. A whole new era opened up where presenting became an art form with technique dominating over content. It's why I want David Attenborough to live for ever - the perfect antidote to the syndrome! >> >> Dave Newbitt (ancient cynic). >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Neill via Tech1 >> Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 9:39 PM >> To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo >> >> Magnus Pike? >> >> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. >> >>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 21:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a wooden shed as his garden loo? >>> >>> I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on their about straw bales! >>> >>> Mike G >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com Sun Jun 2 17:18:37 2019 From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2019 23:18:37 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo Message-ID: <34u4n9y87p235flass6ri40m.1559513917256@email.android.com> By the way, my great-uncle's house had an earth closet in the back garden. It had an earthy, damp leaf/soil smell, and not at all unpleasant. I've never heard of a straw bale toilet, but wouldn't dismiss it as a possibility.?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: "vernon.dyer via Tech1" Date: 02/06/2019 23:10 (GMT+00:00) To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo No, Magnus Pyke was not SLIGHTLY eccentric! You couldn't shoot him closer than an MLS because of the arm windmilling.Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: David Newbitt via Tech1 Date: 02/06/2019 22:17 (GMT+00:00) To: Peter Neill , Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo Magnus Pike! Now there's a name to trigger a memory or two.The 'slight eccentricity' was generally amplified by the wildly exaggerated body and arm movements he employed to drive home his message. In my imagination I used to fancy he ran a training school for the new wave of weather presenters who were now required to adopt a much more expansive approach to their forecasting slots. I named it the 'Magnus Pike School of Arm Waving'. Lady presenters began to use their hands more as though they were drying their nail varnish rather than indicating some feature of the weather map. A whole new era opened up where presenting became an art form with technique dominating over content. It's why I want David Attenborough to live for ever - the perfect antidote to the syndrome!Dave Newbitt (ancient cynic).-----Original Message----- From: Peter Neill via Tech1Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 9:39 PMTo: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.ukSubject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale looMagnus Pike?Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions.> On 2 Jun 2019, at 21:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 > wrote:>> Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things > innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a > wooden shed as his garden loo?>> I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on > their about straw bales!>> Mike G>> -- > Tech1 mailing list> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com Sun Jun 2 17:22:46 2019 From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer) Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2019 23:22:46 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo Message-ID: Could be. I think Heinz Wolff did more on the BBC than Magnus Pyke, anyway.?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Peter Neill via Tech1 Date: 02/06/2019 23:11 (GMT+00:00) To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo Heinz Wolff?Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. > On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:38, Mike Giles wrote:> > Of the same sort of vintage as Magnus Pike, I believe, but not as eccentric as him. Avuncular might encapsulate the guy I?m thinking of, and definitely not as much gesticulating!> > Mike G> >> On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:17, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote:>> >> Magnus Pike! Now there's a name to trigger a memory or two.>> >> The 'slight eccentricity' was generally amplified by the wildly exaggerated body and arm movements he employed to drive home his message. In my imagination I used to fancy he ran a training school for the new wave of weather presenters who were now required to adopt a much more expansive approach to their forecasting slots. I named it the 'Magnus Pike School of Arm Waving'. Lady presenters began to use their hands more as though they were drying their nail varnish rather than indicating some feature of the weather map. A whole new era opened up where presenting became an art form with technique dominating over content. It's why I want David Attenborough to live for ever - the perfect antidote to the syndrome!>> >> Dave Newbitt (ancient cynic).>> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Neill via Tech1>> Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 9:39 PM>> To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo>> >> Magnus Pike?>> >> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions.>> >>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 21:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:>>> >>> Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a wooden shed as his garden loo?>>> >>> I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on their about straw bales!>>> >>> Mike G>>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk> -- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Sun Jun 2 17:30:45 2019 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 23:30:45 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo (2nd attempt to send) In-Reply-To: <41D84F5F24B24E3F8E4118165C19E352@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> <41D84F5F24B24E3F8E4118165C19E352@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: When I first saw him I thought he was using some sort of Semaphore for the Hard of Hearing. Another flamboyant presenter is David Bellamy, who leads me to Brian Blessed who's delivery must charge the radio mic batteries rather than the opposite! Yet another loud voice is Roger Hearing who manages to sound louder than Big Ben at the handover to the World Service on R4 at bedtime. I wonder if he is related to Ann Hearing who used to deal with Sound Equipment Allocationsa t TVC? Hibou. On 02/06/2019 22:17, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > Magnus Pike! Now there's a name to trigger a memory or two. > > The 'slight eccentricity' was generally amplified by the wildly > exaggerated body and arm movements he employed to drive home his > message. In my imagination I used to fancy he ran a training school > for the new wave of weather presenters who were now required to adopt > a much more expansive approach to their forecasting slots. I named it > the 'Magnus Pike School of Arm Waving'. Lady presenters began to use > their hands more as though they were drying their nail varnish rather > than indicating some feature of the weather map. A whole new era > opened up where presenting became an art form with technique > dominating over content. It's why I want David Attenborough to live > for ever - the perfect antidote to the syndrome! > > Dave Newbitt (ancient cynic). > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Peter Neill via Tech1 > Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 9:39 PM > To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo > > Magnus Pike? > > Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. > >> On 2 Jun 2019, at 21:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things >> innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay >> in a wooden shed as his garden loo? >> >> I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on >> their about straw bales! >> >> Mike G >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Sun Jun 2 17:38:51 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 23:38:51 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: References: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> <41D84F5F24B24E3F8E4118165C19E352@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <82F229D8-602E-4CED-AC86-0D2F394D0CAE@mac.com> No - not Heinz Wolff - my man is definitely Anglo Saxon in accent and demeanour! Mike G > On 2 Jun 2019, at 23:11, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote: > > > Heinz Wolff? > Se > > > nt from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. > >> On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:38, Mike Giles wrote: >> >> Of the same sort of vintage as Magnus Pike, I believe, but not as eccentric as him. Avuncular might encapsulate the guy I?m thinking of, and definitely not as much gesticulating! >> >> Mike G >> >>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:17, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> Magnus Pike! Now there's a name to trigger a memory or two. >>> >>> The 'slight eccentricity' was generally amplified by the wildly exaggerated body and arm movements he employed to drive home his message. In my imagination I used to fancy he ran a training school for the new wave of weather presenters who were now required to adopt a much more expansive approach to their forecasting slots. I named it the 'Magnus Pike School of Arm Waving'. Lady presenters began to use their hands more as though they were drying their nail varnish rather than indicating some feature of the weather map. A whole new era opened up where presenting became an art form with technique dominating over content. It's why I want David Attenborough to live for ever - the perfect antidote to the syndrome! >>> >>> Dave Newbitt (ancient cynic). >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Neill via Tech1 >>> Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 9:39 PM >>> To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo >>> >>> Magnus Pike? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. >>> >>>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 21:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a wooden shed as his garden loo? >>>> >>>> I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on their about straw bales! >>>> >>>> Mike G >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Sun Jun 2 17:53:51 2019 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2019 23:53:51 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: He didn't help any boom coverage either! When I first saw him I thought he was using some sort of Semaphore for the Hard of Hearing. Another flamboyant presenter is David Bellamy, who leads me to Brian Blessed who's delivery must charge the radio mic batteries rather than the opposite! Yet another loud voice is Roger Hearing who manages to sound louder than Big Ben at the handover to the World Service on R4 at bedtime. I wonder if he is related to Ann Hearing who used to deal with Sound Equipment Allocationsa t TVC? (sorry if you get this post more than once, my first attempt didn't appear). Hibou. On 02/06/2019 23:10, vernon.dyer via Tech1 wrote: > > No, Magnus Pyke was not SLIGHTLY eccentric! You couldn't shoot him > closer than an MLS because of the arm windmilling. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.neill at icloud.com Mon Jun 3 00:07:54 2019 From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 06:07:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: <82F229D8-602E-4CED-AC86-0D2F394D0CAE@mac.com> References: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> <41D84F5F24B24E3F8E4118165C19E352@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <82F229D8-602E-4CED-AC86-0D2F394D0CAE@mac.com> Message-ID: <1981097F-F3E6-4F89-8335-4D64A18C23D2@icloud.com> I previously suggested Eric Laithwaite, but I?m not sure that one got through. Peter Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. > On 2 Jun 2019, at 23:38, Mike Giles wrote: > > No - not Heinz Wolff - my man is definitely Anglo Saxon in accent and demeanour! > > Mike G > >> On 2 Jun 2019, at 23:11, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote: >> >> >> Heinz Wolff? >> Se >> >> >> nt from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. >> >>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:38, Mike Giles wrote: >>> >>> Of the same sort of vintage as Magnus Pike, I believe, but not as eccentric as him. Avuncular might encapsulate the guy I?m thinking of, and definitely not as much gesticulating! >>> >>> Mike G >>> >>>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:17, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> Magnus Pike! Now there's a name to trigger a memory or two. >>>> >>>> The 'slight eccentricity' was generally amplified by the wildly exaggerated body and arm movements he employed to drive home his message. In my imagination I used to fancy he ran a training school for the new wave of weather presenters who were now required to adopt a much more expansive approach to their forecasting slots. I named it the 'Magnus Pike School of Arm Waving'. Lady presenters began to use their hands more as though they were drying their nail varnish rather than indicating some feature of the weather map. A whole new era opened up where presenting became an art form with technique dominating over content. It's why I want David Attenborough to live for ever - the perfect antidote to the syndrome! >>>> >>>> Dave Newbitt (ancient cynic). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Neill via Tech1 >>>> Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 9:39 PM >>>> To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo >>>> >>>> Magnus Pike? >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. >>>> >>>>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 21:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a wooden shed as his garden loo? >>>>> >>>>> I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on their about straw bales! >>>>> >>>>> Mike G >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > From mibridge at mac.com Mon Jun 3 02:45:19 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 08:45:19 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: <1981097F-F3E6-4F89-8335-4D64A18C23D2@icloud.com> References: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> <41D84F5F24B24E3F8E4118165C19E352@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <82F229D8-602E-4CED-AC86-0D2F394D0CAE@mac.com> <1981097F-F3E6-4F89-8335-4D64A18C23D2@icloud.com> Message-ID: <10D5580B-E587-43D6-BA72-3F74C95928CB@mac.com> No - a worthy suggestion of the right sort of vintage, I would say, but not Eric. The aggravating thing is that I can see the face and hear the voice, but as usual it?s the name that?s elusive. And although it may be marginally worse nowadays, I?ve always found this to be the case. My theory is that before language developed, and thereby names, it was essential to distinguish friend from foe by sight and by the sound of grunting, so the ability to recognise faces, voices (and animals and places, for that matter) is buried much deeper in our DNA, even though the memory of sounds and objects seems much more complex than a few letters - after all, a picture paints a thousand words and just think what you can say with flowers! Mike G > On 3 Jun 2019, at 06:07, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote: > > I previously suggested Eric Laithwaite, but I?m not sure that one got through. > > Peter > > Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. > >> On 2 Jun 2019, at 23:38, Mike Giles wrote: >> >> No - not Heinz Wolff - my man is definitely Anglo Saxon in accent and demeanour! >> >> Mike G >> >>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 23:11, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> >>> Heinz Wolff? >>> Se >>> >>> >>> nt from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. >>> >>>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:38, Mike Giles wrote: >>>> >>>> Of the same sort of vintage as Magnus Pike, I believe, but not as eccentric as him. Avuncular might encapsulate the guy I?m thinking of, and definitely not as much gesticulating! >>>> >>>> Mike G >>>> >>>>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:17, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Magnus Pike! Now there's a name to trigger a memory or two. >>>>> >>>>> The 'slight eccentricity' was generally amplified by the wildly exaggerated body and arm movements he employed to drive home his message. In my imagination I used to fancy he ran a training school for the new wave of weather presenters who were now required to adopt a much more expansive approach to their forecasting slots. I named it the 'Magnus Pike School of Arm Waving'. Lady presenters began to use their hands more as though they were drying their nail varnish rather than indicating some feature of the weather map. A whole new era opened up where presenting became an art form with technique dominating over content. It's why I want David Attenborough to live for ever - the perfect antidote to the syndrome! >>>>> >>>>> Dave Newbitt (ancient cynic). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Neill via Tech1 >>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 9:39 PM >>>>> To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo >>>>> >>>>> Magnus Pike? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. >>>>> >>>>>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 21:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a wooden shed as his garden loo? >>>>>> >>>>>> I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on their about straw bales! >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike G >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From davidpcarter at btinternet.com Mon Jun 3 02:53:54 2019 From: davidpcarter at btinternet.com (David Carter) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 08:53:54 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo Message-ID: <15709240.49817.1559548434094.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> Bob Symes-Schutzman? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Symes David ----Original message---- >From : tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Date : 03/06/2019 - 08:45 (BST) To : tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject : Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo No - a worthy suggestion of the right sort of vintage, I would say, but not Eric. The aggravating thing is that I can see the face and hear the voice, but as usual it?s the name that?s elusive. And although it may be marginally worse nowadays, I?ve always found this to be the case. My theory is that before language developed, and thereby names, it was essential to distinguish friend from foe by sight and by the sound of grunting, so the ability to recognise faces, voices (and animals and places, for that matter) is buried much deeper in our DNA, even though the memory of sounds and objects seems much more complex than a few letters - after all, a picture paints a thousand words and just think what you can say with flowers! Mike G > On 3 Jun 2019, at 06:07, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote: > > I previously suggested Eric Laithwaite, but I?m not sure that one got through. > > Peter > > Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. > >> On 2 Jun 2019, at 23:38, Mike Giles wrote: >> >> No - not Heinz Wolff - my man is definitely Anglo Saxon in accent and demeanour! >> >> Mike G >> >>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 23:11, Peter Neill via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> >>> Heinz Wolff? >>> Se >>> >>> >>> nt from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. >>> >>>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:38, Mike Giles wrote: >>>> >>>> Of the same sort of vintage as Magnus Pike, I believe, but not as eccentric as him. Avuncular might encapsulate the guy I?m thinking of, and definitely not as much gesticulating! >>>> >>>> Mike G >>>> >>>>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 22:17, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Magnus Pike! Now there's a name to trigger a memory or two. >>>>> >>>>> The 'slight eccentricity' was generally amplified by the wildly exaggerated body and arm movements he employed to drive home his message. In my imagination I used to fancy he ran a training school for the new wave of weather presenters who were now required to adopt a much more expansive approach to their forecasting slots. I named it the 'Magnus Pike School of Arm Waving'. Lady presenters began to use their hands more as though they were drying their nail varnish rather than indicating some feature of the weather map. A whole new era opened up where presenting became an art form with technique dominating over content. It's why I want David Attenborough to live for ever - the perfect antidote to the syndrome! >>>>> >>>>> Dave Newbitt (ancient cynic). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Peter Neill via Tech1 >>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2019 9:39 PM >>>>> To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo >>>>> >>>>> Magnus Pike? >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. >>>>> >>>>>> On 2 Jun 2019, at 21:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a wooden shed as his garden loo? >>>>>> >>>>>> I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on their about straw bales! >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike G >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Mon Jun 3 03:26:28 2019 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 09:26:28 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Test for B only Message-ID: No text -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Mon Jun 3 03:35:11 2019 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 09:35:11 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0fe17f0d-22dd-fb32-1d49-95662f1964c1@howell61.f9.co.uk> Magnus didn't help any boom coverage either! When I first saw him I thought he was using some sort of Semaphore for the Hard of Hearing. Another flamboyant presenter is David Bellamy, who leads me to Brian Blessed who's delivery must charge the radio mic batteries rather than the opposite! Yet another loud voice is Roger Hearing who manages to sound louder than Big Ben at the handover to the World Service on R4 at bedtime. I wonder if he is related to Ann Hearing who used to deal with Sound Equipment Allocationsa t TVC? (sorry if you get this post more than once, my first attempts didn't appear). Hibou. On 02/06/2019 23:10, vernon.dyer via Tech1 wrote: > > No, Magnus Pyke was not SLIGHTLY eccentric! You couldn't shoot him > closer than an MLS because of the arm windmilling. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Mon Jun 3 04:39:36 2019 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2019 10:39:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: <0fe17f0d-22dd-fb32-1d49-95662f1964c1@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <0fe17f0d-22dd-fb32-1d49-95662f1964c1@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: <57be452662dave@davesound.co.uk> In article <0fe17f0d-22dd-fb32-1d49-95662f1964c1 at howell61.f9.co.uk>, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > Yet another loud voice is Roger Hearing who manages to sound louder than > Big Ben at the handover to the World Service on R4 at bedtime. Here's an anorak question. At how many seconds past 00.59 has the National Anthem got to start to 'hit' the pips nicely? I have a large mains locked digital clock in the bedroom, and love to see how far out it is at the 01.00 pips. If spot on - once in a blue moon - I can drift off to sleep happy. ;-) -- *Ham and Eggs: Just a day's work for a chicken, but a lifetime commitment Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk London SW 12 From pat.heigham at amps.net Mon Jun 3 07:26:03 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 13:26:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> References: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> Message-ID: <5cf511dc.1c69fb81.fe733.ec0c@mx.google.com> (see later posts, about wild gesticulations) I don?t think it was Adam Hart-Davies, an excellent presenter, who describes himself as a ?testiculator?: ? I wave my arms about and talk a load of balls!? Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Mike Giles via Tech1 Sent: 02 June 2019 21:35 To: Tech Ops Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a wooden shed as his garden loo? I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on their about straw bales! Mike G -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Mon Jun 3 07:39:19 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 13:39:19 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Anthem and pips In-Reply-To: <57be452662dave@davesound.co.uk> References: <0fe17f0d-22dd-fb32-1d49-95662f1964c1@howell61.f9.co.uk> <57be452662dave@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: <5cf514f8.1c69fb81.e5937.c934@mx.google.com> The pips are six seconds long? Time the length of the National Anthem, add the length of the pips, Perhaps with a half-beat gap. Gives the answer on a ?back-time?. Are programmes played out from computer, now, so probably Auto-cued? Except the shipping forecast is live? The Today programme always strives to come out so as not to ?crash? the pips. Not always successful. Does Humphrys get something knocked off his paycheck if it happens? (He?s a tad younger than me, but looks a lot older. I?m embarrassed when young Asian ladies offer me their seat on the bus!) Pat From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 Sent: 03 June 2019 10:47 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Straw bale loo Here's an anorak question. At how many seconds past 00.59 has the National Anthem got to start to 'hit' the pips nicely? --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Mon Jun 3 08:01:22 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 14:01:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: <0fe17f0d-22dd-fb32-1d49-95662f1964c1@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <0fe17f0d-22dd-fb32-1d49-95662f1964c1@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: <6948863C-01B9-4BCE-A9C2-5496E7F3E97F@mac.com> I don?t think I ever knew Ann?s surname. Mike G > On 3 Jun 2019, at 09:35, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > > Magnus didn't help any boom coverage either! When I first saw him I thought he was using some sort of Semaphore for the Hard of Hearing. > Another flamboyant presenter is David Bellamy, who leads me to Brian Blessed who's delivery must charge the radio mic batteries rather than the opposite! > > Yet another loud voice is Roger Hearing who manages to sound louder than Big Ben at the handover to the World Service on R4 at bedtime. > > I wonder if he is related to Ann Hearing who used to deal with Sound Equipment Allocationsa t TVC? > > (sorry if you get this post more than once, my first attempts didn't appear). > > Hibou. > >> On 02/06/2019 23:10, vernon.dyer via Tech1 wrote: >> >> No, Magnus Pyke was not SLIGHTLY eccentric! You couldn't shoot him closer than an MLS because of the arm windmilling. >> > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Mon Jun 3 16:06:39 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 22:06:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo In-Reply-To: <5cf511dc.1c69fb81.fe733.ec0c@mx.google.com> References: <4D83DB15-0444-44D8-96BF-08C947C4A67A@mac.com> <5cf511dc.1c69fb81.fe733.ec0c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <0F42A6E3-AB33-4036-820D-4E280CF3C162@mac.com> That?s the chap Pat - I?d forgotten that he had a double-barrelled surname. Just to name drop, I wanted to know because I was recounting the tale of his straw bale loo to Lord Wilson of Dinton, but just couldn?t bring even a suggestion of a name to mind. So we found other things to talk about - mostly Brexit! Mike G > On 3 Jun 2019, at 13:26, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: > > (see later posts, about wild gesticulations) > I don?t think it was Adam Hart-Davies, an excellent presenter, > who describes himself as a ?testiculator?: > ? I wave my arms about and talk a load of balls!? > > Pat > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Mike Giles via Tech1 > Sent: 02 June 2019 21:35 > To: Tech Ops > Subject: [Tech1] Straw bale loo > > Can anyone recall the slightly eccentric BBC presenter of things innovative, may have been a professor, who had a bale of straw or hay in a wooden shed as his garden loo? > > I tried a YouTube search without success, but there?s an awful lot on their about straw bales! > > Mike G > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Mon Jun 3 16:43:20 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 22:43:20 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Bale of Straw BOG In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good thought Tony, but Pat was right about Adam Hart-Davies - I?ve just checked him on Google. Just wondering if anyone on here has adopted such a convenience in the garden? Or other equally environmentally friendly means of communing with nature. Mike G > On 3 Jun 2019, at 08:35, William Nuttall wrote: > > Hi Mike, > I would ask the CENTRE FOR ALTERNATIVE TECHNOLOGY in Wales. > I'm sure they will be able to suggest a name or probably ten such nutters! > > https://www.cat.org.uk > > Tony Nuttall, in the wind swept Wilds of Cumbria From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Mon Jun 3 17:39:24 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2019 23:39:24 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [Announce] TV license scam Beware In-Reply-To: <5158F524-6F55-4F7A-A828-6187B9B2684E@btinternet.com> References: <5158F524-6F55-4F7A-A828-6187B9B2684E@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <1c02c40f-26b1-e314-a26d-986072fe4acb@btinternet.com> Thanks Albert, I get several calls a day about my broadband, my Windows PC etc. and I just tell them (if it is a human being on the other end!) that they are lying because Microsoft do not ring people at home and neither do your bank or BT. Unfortunately my sister-in-law had problems with her Sky broadband and BT sent engineers to fix a line problem in the local cabinet. It took them a long time because there had been water getting into it. The next day she received one of these scam calls (sheer coincidence?) and allowed the caller, (who was female and then who handed over to a male) and allowed them to access her PC resulting in total destruction of her PC etc. so she has had to buy a new PC! Be warned! Cheers, Dave From alawrance1 at me.com Tue Jun 4 02:06:25 2019 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 08:06:25 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [Announce] TV license scam Beware In-Reply-To: <1c02c40f-26b1-e314-a26d-986072fe4acb@btinternet.com> References: <5158F524-6F55-4F7A-A828-6187B9B2684E@btinternet.com> <1c02c40f-26b1-e314-a26d-986072fe4acb@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <32263824-E29D-49B7-A4C9-1E3DCCF6064E@me.com> Having a PC that doesn?t run on Microsoft, I often have fun with them if I can be bothered. Eventually I do the ?stop being a criminal? spiel. Sent from my iPad Pro. > On 3 Jun 2019, at 23:39, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > > Thanks Albert, I get several calls a day about my broadband, my Windows PC etc. and I just tell them (if it is a human being on the other end!) that they are lying because Microsoft do not ring people at home and neither do your bank or BT. Unfortunately my sister-in-law had problems with her Sky broadband and BT sent engineers to fix a line problem in the local cabinet. It took them a long time because there had been water getting into it. The next day she received one of these scam calls (sheer coincidence?) and allowed the caller, (who was female and then who handed over to a male) and allowed them to access her PC resulting in total destruction of her PC etc. so she has had to buy a new PC! Be warned! Cheers, Dave > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From bernie833 at gmail.com Tue Jun 4 04:09:36 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 10:09:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [Announce] TV license scam Beware In-Reply-To: <1c02c40f-26b1-e314-a26d-986072fe4acb@btinternet.com> References: <5158F524-6F55-4F7A-A828-6187B9B2684E@btinternet.com> <1c02c40f-26b1-e314-a26d-986072fe4acb@btinternet.com> Message-ID: A friend here had that same experience. Presumably BT has some people with friends in low places. B On 03/06/2019 23:39, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > Thanks Albert, I get several calls a day about my broadband, my > Windows PC etc. and I just tell them (if it is a human being on the > other end!) that they are lying because Microsoft do not ring people > at home and neither do your bank or BT. Unfortunately my sister-in-law > had problems with her Sky broadband and BT sent engineers to fix a > line problem in the local cabinet. It took them a long time because > there had been water getting into it. The next day she received one of > these scam calls (sheer coincidence?) and allowed the caller, (who was > female and then who handed over to a male) and allowed them to access > her PC resulting in total destruction of her PC etc. so she has had to > buy a new PC! Be warned! Cheers, Dave > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Tue Jun 4 04:14:37 2019 From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray) Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2019 10:14:37 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [Announce] TV license scam Beware In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0un19ctv2dafbs32hf29bep8.1559639677504@pgtmedia.co.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Wed Jun 5 02:16:02 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 08:16:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] A younger man Message-ID: <91B17D4F-62D0-4A10-AA88-1EC7C78FEFD5@mac.com> I thought that most of us would be unfamiliar with the young Gordon Mackie in the photograph printed on the front of the order of service, so I checked with his daughter that it would be OK to share it and she would love to hear any further anecdotes that it brings to mind. Mike G -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0081.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 98372 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Jun 5 13:10:56 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 19:10:56 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Gordon Mackie In-Reply-To: <5cf69cf3.1c69fb81.69dbe.8d2e@mx.google.com> References: <5cf69cf3.1c69fb81.69dbe.8d2e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5cf805b2.1c69fb81.3f9ed.d82e@mx.google.com> As of Yesterday: Just to say that I?ve just got back from Gordon?s funeral ? actually a Celebration of the Life of..... Thus we were not required to tearfully sing hymns. More of a Civil Celebrant service with some of Gordon?s favourite music played. Back to his daughter, Kathryn?s house for a wake, but a rather small turnout, I thought. However there was a goodly presence from TVC. Bob Foley kindly drove Mike Giles and myself, we met up with Dave Mundy, Alan Machin & Keith Graves. Tony Milton was also there. Gordon achieved 90. I chiefly remember him in the Sound Control Rooms, us dodging his practice golf swings, while he muttered darkly about: ?Bloody Gramophone Operators!? But he was generous in his imparting of knowledge when I was seconded to him on a Sound Supervisor?s Course ? he taught me a lot, which has helped a great deal when I transferred into the film industry. Mike Giles has posted a photo from the cover of the Service Order ? I hadn?t realised what a handsome fellow he was! Pat Heigham Sent from Mail for Windows 10 Virus-free. www.avast.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Wed Jun 5 13:58:15 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 19:58:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] A younger man In-Reply-To: <91B17D4F-62D0-4A10-AA88-1EC7C78FEFD5@mac.com> References: <91B17D4F-62D0-4A10-AA88-1EC7C78FEFD5@mac.com> Message-ID: <678E0CB21E034F2EADF6269C412504DE@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Thank you Mike - a really nice gesture by you and the family. As Pat observes in his post today "a handsome fellow" and a very fine photo of him. Enjoyed seeing it and the memory it brought. Younger than when I first encountered him but absolutely unmistakeable. The family must have been touched by the tech ops contingent as Pat listed all of you. Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Giles via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 8:16 AM To: Tech Ops Subject: [Tech1] A younger man I thought that most of us would be unfamiliar with the young Gordon Mackie in the photograph printed on the front of the order of service, so I checked with his daughter that it would be OK to share it and she would love to hear any further anecdotes that it brings to mind. Mike G -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From mibridge at mac.com Wed Jun 5 18:04:52 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 00:04:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Gordon Mackie In-Reply-To: <5cf805b2.1c69fb81.3f9ed.d82e@mx.google.com> References: <5cf69cf3.1c69fb81.69dbe.8d2e@mx.google.com> <5cf805b2.1c69fb81.3f9ed.d82e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <87F85CA3-C54E-4657-9783-F726925EA8D9@mac.com> Minor correction, Pat - Keith Mayes. Mike G > On 5 Jun 2019, at 19:10, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: > > As of Yesterday: > Just to say that I?ve just got back from Gordon?s funeral ? actually a Celebration of the Life of..... > Thus we were not required to tearfully sing hymns. > More of a Civil Celebrant service with some of Gordon?s favourite music played. > Back to his daughter, Kathryn?s house for a wake, but a rather small turnout, I thought. > However there was a goodly presence from TVC. > Bob Foley kindly drove Mike Giles and myself, we met up with Dave Mundy, Alan Machin > & Keith Graves. Tony Milton was also there. > Gordon achieved 90. > I chiefly remember him in the Sound Control Rooms, us dodging his practice golf swings, > while he muttered darkly about: ?Bloody Gramophone Operators!? > But he was generous in his imparting of knowledge when I was seconded to him on a Sound > Supervisor?s Course ? he taught me a lot, which has helped a great deal when I transferred > into the film industry. > Mike Giles has posted a photo from the cover of the Service Order ? I hadn?t realised what a handsome fellow he was! > > Pat Heigham > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpn at imixmics.co.uk Thu Jun 6 02:22:58 2019 From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 08:22:58 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wildlife Sound Message-ID: <8413e6ce-3b61-cc81-49ca-f531025f0fc6@imixmics.co.uk> I don't often scream abuse at the tele, but I've just watched Monday's Springwatch. Intro to Gary Moore doing a piece on the sounds that lapwings make. Cut to shot of Somerset Levels and MUZAC! (sorry about the capitals...). Who are these stupid, stupid production people who think listening to birdsong needs music added? They need their ears boxed!! Still very angry! John From mibridge at mac.com Thu Jun 6 02:28:00 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 08:28:00 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wildlife Sound In-Reply-To: <8413e6ce-3b61-cc81-49ca-f531025f0fc6@imixmics.co.uk> References: <8413e6ce-3b61-cc81-49ca-f531025f0fc6@imixmics.co.uk> Message-ID: Sounds as though you should be playing Angry Birds John! Mike G > On 6 Jun 2019, at 08:22, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote: > > I don't often scream abuse at the tele, but I've just watched Monday's Springwatch. Intro to Gary Moore doing a piece on the sounds that lapwings make. Cut to shot of Somerset Levels and MUZAC! (sorry about the capitals...). Who are these stupid, stupid production people who think listening to birdsong needs music added? They need their ears boxed!! > > Still very angry! > > John > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From mibridge at mac.com Thu Jun 6 02:32:07 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 08:32:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Gordon Mackie In-Reply-To: <87F85CA3-C54E-4657-9783-F726925EA8D9@mac.com> References: <5cf69cf3.1c69fb81.69dbe.8d2e@mx.google.com> <5cf805b2.1c69fb81.3f9ed.d82e@mx.google.com> <87F85CA3-C54E-4657-9783-F726925EA8D9@mac.com> Message-ID: <9E219E74-C948-4788-A8EB-43AE0C6AC20E@mac.com> Just after Gordon died, someone circulated a press cutting referring to his career as a Sound Supervisor, which his daughter hadn?t seen, but I can?t now find it. If the worthy gent who sent it still has it within his grasp, can you recirculate it, please and I?ll pass it on. Mike G > On 6 Jun 2019, at 00:04, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > > Minor correction, Pat - Keith Mayes. > > Mike G > >> On 5 Jun 2019, at 19:10, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: >> >> As of Yesterday: >> Just to say that I?ve just got back from Gordon?s funeral ? actually a Celebration of the Life of..... >> Thus we were not required to tearfully sing hymns. >> More of a Civil Celebrant service with some of Gordon?s favourite music played. >> Back to his daughter, Kathryn?s house for a wake, but a rather small turnout, I thought. >> However there was a goodly presence from TVC. >> Bob Foley kindly drove Mike Giles and myself, we met up with Dave Mundy, Alan Machin >> & Keith Graves. Tony Milton was also there. >> Gordon achieved 90. >> I chiefly remember him in the Sound Control Rooms, us dodging his practice golf swings, >> while he muttered darkly about: ?Bloody Gramophone Operators!? >> But he was generous in his imparting of knowledge when I was seconded to him on a Sound >> Supervisor?s Course ? he taught me a lot, which has helped a great deal when I transferred >> into the film industry. >> Mike Giles has posted a photo from the cover of the Service Order ? I hadn?t realised what a handsome fellow he was! >> >> Pat Heigham >> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >> >> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From relong at btinternet.com Thu Jun 6 03:43:56 2019 From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 09:43:56 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wildlife Sound In-Reply-To: <8413e6ce-3b61-cc81-49ca-f531025f0fc6@imixmics.co.uk> References: <8413e6ce-3b61-cc81-49ca-f531025f0fc6@imixmics.co.uk> Message-ID: <20B8E0BB-CD10-4BBD-852B-36559299BBC7@btinternet.com> SpringWatch is beyond the pale in popularism? I cringed at an item about identifying bird song with Michael Strachen whistleing tunelessly her version of garden bird song after hearing the real thing Desperate stuff, like many of the items produced for a diverse audience now I prefer the focus and scientific approach, not the populist One Show bollocks, she justified her performance as she had had 2 hit records in her youth (in South Africa ?) Roger > On 6 Jun 2019, at 08:22, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote: > > I don't often scream abuse at the tele, but I've just watched Monday's Springwatch. Intro to Gary Moore doing a piece on the sounds that lapwings make. Cut to shot of Somerset Levels and MUZAC! (sorry about the capitals...). Who are these stupid, stupid production people who think listening to birdsong needs music added? They need their ears boxed!! > > Still very angry! > > John > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From mail at terrymeadowcroft.co.uk Thu Jun 6 04:44:50 2019 From: mail at terrymeadowcroft.co.uk (terrymeadowcroft) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:44:50 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wildlife Sound References: <8413e6ce-3b61-cc81-49ca-f531025f0fc6@imixmics.co.uk> Message-ID: <69591F59192D42D1AEDDA7218ED6F2DD@MEDDIES2012> I'm only guessing, but I suspect that music has to be all the way through EVERYTHING just to make the programme competitive with every other programme. It's all down to COMPETITION and MONEY! I really don't believe that to be competitive and audience catching, music has to be peppered all over programmes, but I bet THEY do! Peewits are music to me, whatever you call them! Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Nottage via Tech1" To: Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2019 8:22 AM Subject: [Tech1] Wildlife Sound >I don't often scream abuse at the tele, but I've just watched Monday's >Springwatch. Intro to Gary Moore doing a piece on the sounds that lapwings >make. Cut to shot of Somerset Levels and MUZAC! (sorry about the >capitals...). Who are these stupid, stupid production people who think >listening to birdsong needs music added? They need their ears boxed!! > > Still very angry! > > John > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From david.jasma at sky.com Thu Jun 6 05:01:16 2019 From: david.jasma at sky.com (Dave Buckley) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 11:01:16 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Springwatch Message-ID: <000e01d51c4e$c8173a90$5845afb0$@sky.com> I note the comments on music during the programme, but what about the out of sync sound on the Birmingham inserts? I reckon about 2 - 3 frames. Dave Buckley --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From mibridge at mac.com Thu Jun 6 09:10:13 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 15:10:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Wildlife Sound In-Reply-To: <69591F59192D42D1AEDDA7218ED6F2DD@MEDDIES2012> References: <8413e6ce-3b61-cc81-49ca-f531025f0fc6@imixmics.co.uk> <69591F59192D42D1AEDDA7218ED6F2DD@MEDDIES2012> Message-ID: But all music has to be paid for - unfortunately with some of the high profile programmes the specially commissioned orchestral stuff is so expensive that they need to make it over-loud to get value for money! Mike G > On 6 Jun 2019, at 10:44, terrymeadowcroft via Tech1 wrote: > > I'm only guessing, but I suspect that music has to be all the way through EVERYTHING just to make the programme competitive with every other programme. > > It's all down to COMPETITION and MONEY! > > I really don't believe that to be competitive and audience catching, music has to be peppered all over programmes, but I bet THEY do! > > Peewits are music to me, whatever you call them! > > Terry > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Nottage via Tech1" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2019 8:22 AM > Subject: [Tech1] Wildlife Sound > > >> I don't often scream abuse at the tele, but I've just watched Monday's Springwatch. Intro to Gary Moore doing a piece on the sounds that lapwings make. Cut to shot of Somerset Levels and MUZAC! (sorry about the capitals...). Who are these stupid, stupid production people who think listening to birdsong needs music added? They need their ears boxed!! >> >> Still very angry! >> >> John >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From bernie833 at gmail.com Fri Jun 7 06:04:56 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 12:04:56 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] 1969 and all that. Message-ID: <67521bde-1769-fb37-1bcb-13f7125e2413@gmail.com> My younger son, 25, couldn't think what to buy me for my birthday recently, so he bought me "a rocket". It turned out to be a 1:144 Revell kit of Apollo 11 and its Saturn V stack. I felt it only polite to move it to the top of my "building things" list and started work.? When I got to the second stage, the engine section looked a bit weird....... The real J2 engine ,,,,and I discovered a tiny bit of obscure and strange history. As you can see, the engines - five J2s - are just shown as cup things on a disc.? How could they model them like this, they must have known they were wrong??? It turns out that 50 years ago Revell rushed the kit to market without ever seeing the inside ends of the stages, and have never in all that time upgraded the mouldings.? Presumably this was the pre-production setup (done by the trainee?) and no-one complained.? Of course, like everything else these days, a touch of Googling reveals a tiny industry of people supplying the correct bits for those who want to make an accurate model. Personally, I've decided not to do it that way. If I had a 3d printer I'd give that a go, but the parts are small and I don't think that would be accurate enough, so I've discovered something called Siligum. It's a two part silicone mounding compound which takes very fine detail and goes off in about five minutes. As the Saturn stage 3 has one J2 engine I'm going to make five copies. The mould is made, I'm just waiting for the resin. ...and Robin is learning via WhatsApp much more about 1969 and all that than he did before. B PS I was watching in the TC7 engineering area for Apollo11 moonwalking, but I was a Cape Canaveral just before Apollo 17 took off, and got the tour - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: hjhdlcnjhpiknpnm.png Type: image/png Size: 220602 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: afncodocgmicnfhj.png Type: image/png Size: 46129 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: hlhaecdjjokmmpgi.png Type: image/png Size: 378657 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: lndnjmjpahkdljdl.png Type: image/png Size: 281315 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Fri Jun 7 06:51:54 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 12:51:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Panorama 1956 Message-ID: There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good historical stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is irritating.? I ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which you might enjoy - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in Firefox and Edge.? It's 120MB B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Fri Jun 7 07:10:18 2019 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 13:10:18 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] 1969 and all that. In-Reply-To: <67521bde-1769-fb37-1bcb-13f7125e2413@gmail.com> References: <67521bde-1769-fb37-1bcb-13f7125e2413@gmail.com> Message-ID: <76D02F32-4F80-4273-A8BD-8001AEB68BA7@icloud.com> Having built the rocket, are you going to use your 3D printer to produce the launching tower? ? Graeme Wall > On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:04, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > > My younger son, 25, couldn't think what to buy me for my birthday recently, so he bought me "a rocket". It turned out to be a 1:144 Revell kit of Apollo 11 and its Saturn V stack. > > I felt it only polite to move it to the top of my "building things" list and started work. When I got to the second stage, the engine section looked a bit weird....... > > The real J2 engine > > ,,,,and I discovered a tiny bit of obscure and strange history. As you can see, the engines - five J2s - are just shown as cup things on a disc. How could they model them like this, they must have known they were wrong? It turns out that 50 years ago Revell rushed the kit to market without ever seeing the inside ends of the stages, and have never in all that time upgraded the mouldings. Presumably this was the pre-production setup (done by the trainee?) and no-one complained. Of course, like everything else these days, a touch of Googling reveals a tiny industry of people supplying the correct bits for those who want to make an accurate model. > > Personally, I've decided not to do it that way. If I had a 3d printer I'd give that a go, but the parts are small and I don't think that would be accurate enough, so I've discovered something called Siligum. It's a two part silicone mounding compound which takes very fine detail and goes off in about five minutes. As the Saturn stage 3 has one J2 engine I'm going to make five copies. The mould is made, I'm just waiting for the resin. > > ...and Robin is learning via WhatsApp much more about 1969 and all that than he did before. > > B > > PS I was watching in the TC7 engineering area for Apollo11 moonwalking, but I was a Cape Canaveral just before Apollo 17 took off, and got the tour - > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From waresound at msn.com Fri Jun 7 07:37:38 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 12:37:38 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Fab. I found I could only get it to play by right clicking and saving the file to my desktop. Then FLV media player loved it. Thanks v much - fascinating stuff! Apart from peak distortion and telerecording (optical sound?) hiss, Richard?s actual speech intelligibility was better than a lot of today?s broadcast TV offerings! Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > wrote: There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good historical stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is irritating. I ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which you might enjoy - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in Firefox and Edge. It's 120MB B -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Fri Jun 7 09:05:33 2019 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 15:05:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <624d4fcf-8fcd-fdb2-ecb5-a2588d5b9652@howell61.f9.co.uk> Yes, most interesting, it played OK in Firefox but I couldn't find a way of saving it. Could that be Gil Walker lifting the lid on the Emitron camera at 2' 09"? Regards, Hibou. On 07/06/2019 13:37, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > Fab. I found I could only get it to play by right clicking and saving > the file to my desktop. Then FLV media player loved it. >> Thanks v much - fascinating stuff! Apart from peak distortion and >> telerecording (optical sound?) hiss, Richard?s actual speech >> intelligibility was better than a lot of today?s broadcast TV offerings! >> Cheers, >> Nick. >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 >> > wrote: >> >>> There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good >>> historical stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is >>> irritating.? I ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which >>> you might enjoy - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 >>> >>> It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in >>> Firefox and Edge.? It's 120MB >>> >>> B >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Fri Jun 7 09:29:03 2019 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 15:29:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 In-Reply-To: <624d4fcf-8fcd-fdb2-ecb5-a2588d5b9652@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <624d4fcf-8fcd-fdb2-ecb5-a2588d5b9652@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: <0de81725-c1e8-6351-2743-5c3d6dce3a35@chriswoolf.co.uk> On 07/06/2019 15:05, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > > Yes, most interesting, it played OK in Firefox but I couldn't find a > way of saving it. > Right click / Save Video As... /?? seems to work as usual. Chris Woolf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Fri Jun 7 09:34:39 2019 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 15:34:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 In-Reply-To: <0de81725-c1e8-6351-2743-5c3d6dce3a35@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <624d4fcf-8fcd-fdb2-ecb5-a2588d5b9652@howell61.f9.co.uk> <0de81725-c1e8-6351-2743-5c3d6dce3a35@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: ... It is a rather large file (119549kB) so downloading could be slow if your internet pipe is narrow. Chris WOolf On 07/06/2019 15:29, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > > On 07/06/2019 15:05, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Yes, most interesting, it played OK in Firefox but I couldn't find a >> way of saving it. >> > Right click / Save Video As... /?? seems to work as usual. > > Chris Woolf > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Fri Jun 7 17:39:06 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 23:39:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Panorama 1956 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55b3c04c-9b67-6294-3d88-66de91787a7e@btinternet.com> Fascinating! Thanks Bernie. It played OK on my latest Firefox (67.0.1) but stopped every so often, I assume to download the stream. Cheers, Dave From mibridge at mac.com Fri Jun 7 17:57:41 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 23:57:41 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Panorama 1956 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Worked instantly for me on Safari. Makes you proud to be British! Mike G > On 7 Jun 2019, at 13:37, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > > Fab. I found I could only get it to play by right clicking and saving the file to my desktop. Then FLV media player loved it. >> Thanks v much - fascinating stuff! Apart from peak distortion and telerecording (optical sound?) hiss, Richard?s actual speech intelligibility was better than a lot of today?s broadcast TV offerings! >> Cheers, >> Nick. >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > wrote: >> >>> There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good historical stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is irritating. I ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which you might enjoy - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 >>> >>> It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in Firefox and Edge. It's 120MB >>> >>> B >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Sat Jun 8 02:22:28 2019 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 08:22:28 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Panorama 1956 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, When I started in Jan 1963, I thought that the CPS Emitrons were old-fashioned, archaic even: even though most considered opinions at the time were that the CPS Emitrons gave better rendering of facial tones than those much harsher 4.5 inch Image Orthicons. OK, then, which studio in Lime Grove? Also, when I joined, I thought that the Vinten Herons were wonderfully modern, in tune with the Television Centre - strange to think that they were being designed a YEAR earlier than this clip!?? Designed in the same year as the Ford Anglia 100E, the Jaguar Mk 1 and the Triumph TR3 were introduced,the Heron seemed so advanced for its time. I associate the Herons initially with the EMI 203 and the Marconi Mk 4 cameras at TVC - but historically I guess the contemporaneous correct pairing should be the Heron and the CPS Emitron - Beauty and the Beast ... -- Best Regards Alec Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com mob: 07789 561 346 home: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: hleggkgeipdnookf.png Type: image/png Size: 160398 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hughsheppard at btinternet.com Sat Jun 8 02:33:11 2019 From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 08:33:11 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 In-Reply-To: <624d4fcf-8fcd-fdb2-ecb5-a2588d5b9652@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <624d4fcf-8fcd-fdb2-ecb5-a2588d5b9652@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: As I recall, Raymond McCollough (the lighting engineer at Riverside) was HTOTelS when I joined in 1958. Others recognised were Henry Tarner (HE Tel News) and Tony Stanley (HE Tel Projects). A great clip, particularly re. zoom lenses that I'd thought were later. Hugh On 07-Jun-19 3:05 PM, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > > Yes, most interesting, it played OK in Firefox but I couldn't find a > way of saving it. > > Could that be Gil Walker lifting the lid on the Emitron camera at 2' 09"? > > Regards, > > Hibou. > > > On 07/06/2019 13:37, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Fab. I found I could only get it to play by right clicking and saving >> the file to my desktop. Then FLV media player loved it. >>> Thanks v much - fascinating stuff! Apart from peak distortion and >>> telerecording (optical sound?) hiss, Richard?s actual speech >>> intelligibility was better than a lot of today?s broadcast TV offerings! >>> Cheers, >>> Nick. >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good >>>> historical stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is >>>> irritating.? I ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which >>>> you might enjoy - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 >>>> >>>> It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in >>>> Firefox and Edge.? It's 120MB >>>> >>>> B >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpn at imixmics.co.uk Sat Jun 8 03:25:29 2019 From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 09:25:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Predictive Text Message-ID: <38fb1d72-3039-8562-1b19-1c657cf14886@imixmics.co.uk> I write most of my emails using Thunderbird on my desktop PC. Occasionally I write an email on my old Samsung phone. The Samsung has a really good predictive text system. It doesn't try to write for you, it just suggests (or corrects the spelling of) the next word. It can be very effective, resulting in me being able sometimes to write a whole sentence with just a very few keypresses. It doesn't get it all right: my mate Malcolm comes out as "malcontent"! However, it would be nice if I could get the same facility on the desktop. Does anyone know a system like that that at will work with Win10? John From rogerbunce at btinternet.com Sat Jun 8 05:49:45 2019 From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 10:49:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 In-Reply-To: References: <624d4fcf-8fcd-fdb2-ecb5-a2588d5b9652@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: <1621338999.145959.1559990985866@mail.yahoo.com> I've enjoyed a lot of these releases from BBC Archive. They appear on 'Facebook', when first released, but then I find it difficult to trace them, when I want to see them again. If they went onto YouTube, or a similar site, they would be available to view in perpetuity. Maybe they are, and I'm just to dim to know where to look. Anyone know if there an easy way of locating them at will? ????luv, Rog. On Saturday, 8 June 2019, 08:33:39 BST, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: As I recall, Raymond McCollough (the lighting engineer at Riverside) was HTOTelS when I joined in 1958. Others recognised were Henry Tarner (HE Tel News) and Tony Stanley (HE Tel Projects). A great clip, particularly re. zoom lenses that I'd thought were later. Hugh On 07-Jun-19 3:05 PM, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Yes, most interesting, it played OK in Firefox but I couldn't find a way of saving it. Could that be Gil Walker lifting the lid on the Emitron camera at 2' 09"? Regards, Hibou. On 07/06/2019 13:37, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: Fab. I found I could only get it to play by right clicking and saving the file to my desktop. Then FLV media player loved it. Thanks v much - fascinating stuff! Apart from peak distortion and telerecording (optical sound?) hiss, Richard?s actual speech intelligibility was better than a lot of today?s broadcast TV offerings! Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good historical stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is irritating.? I ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which you might enjoy - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in Firefox and Edge.? It's 120MB B -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidvbrunt at gmail.com Sat Jun 8 06:00:49 2019 From: davidvbrunt at gmail.com (David Brunt) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 12:00:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 In-Reply-To: <1621338999.145959.1559990985866@mail.yahoo.com> References: <624d4fcf-8fcd-fdb2-ecb5-a2588d5b9652@howell61.f9.co.uk> <1621338999.145959.1559990985866@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <339219D7989E41129ECFDCB23D6DABBA@AdminPC> Save the video page. https://www.facebook.com/search/videos/?q=bbc%20archive&ref=eyJzaWQiOiIwLjkxNTk2MjM0MDk5NDcxNTciLCJyZWYiOiJ0b3BfZmlsdGVyIn0%3D&epa=SERP_TAB You may have to scroll down. If you use something like YouTube Downloader (YTD), you can download the clip to your machine by just copying the page URL into the box. http://www.ytddownloader.com/ From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2019 11:49 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk ; Hugh Sheppard Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 I've enjoyed a lot of these releases from BBC Archive. They appear on 'Facebook', when first released, but then I find it difficult to trace them, when I want to see them again. If they went onto YouTube, or a similar site, they would be available to view in perpetuity. Maybe they are, and I'm just to dim to know where to look. Anyone know if there an easy way of locating them at will? luv, Rog. On Saturday, 8 June 2019, 08:33:39 BST, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: As I recall, Raymond McCollough (the lighting engineer at Riverside) was HTOTelS when I joined in 1958. Others recognised were Henry Tarner (HE Tel News) and Tony Stanley (HE Tel Projects). A great clip, particularly re. zoom lenses that I'd thought were later. Hugh On 07-Jun-19 3:05 PM, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Yes, most interesting, it played OK in Firefox but I couldn't find a way of saving it. Could that be Gil Walker lifting the lid on the Emitron camera at 2' 09"? Regards, Hibou. On 07/06/2019 13:37, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: Fab. I found I could only get it to play by right clicking and saving the file to my desktop. Then FLV media player loved it. Thanks v much - fascinating stuff! Apart from peak distortion and telerecording (optical sound?) hiss, Richard?s actual speech intelligibility was better than a lot of today?s broadcast TV offerings! Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good historical stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is irritating. I ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which you might enjoy - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in Firefox and Edge. It's 120MB B -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alex.thomas1 at talktalk.net Sat Jun 8 07:49:58 2019 From: alex.thomas1 at talktalk.net (Alex Thomas) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 13:49:58 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. Message-ID: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> Hugh, I joined Tech ops in June 1960. HTO Tel S was R. de B. McCollough. His assistant was Bill Bailey I think. I never ever met either of them in the 5 years that I was in the department. I have always been intrigued by the ?de B? in McCullough?s name. Did he have Channel Island connections? I will never forget Pat Jenner who guarded BBC funds with great care. If we were working at Riverside, she would save a couple of pence on the bus fare by insisting that we alighted outside the Hammersmith library and not travel into the next fare stage. It certainly was not the nearest bus stop to Riverside. That would have been at the top of Fulham Palace Road by the old mortuary. From: Tech1 On Behalf Of Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 Sent: 08 June 2019 08:33 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 As I recall, Raymond McCollough (the lighting engineer at Riverside) was HTOTelS when I joined in 1958. Others recognised were Henry Tarner (HE Tel News) and Tony Stanley (HE Tel Projects). A great clip, particularly re. zoom lenses that I'd thought were later. Hugh On 07-Jun-19 3:05 PM, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Yes, most interesting, it played OK in Firefox but I couldn't find a way of saving it. Could that be Gil Walker lifting the lid on the Emitron camera at 2' 09"? Regards, Hibou. On 07/06/2019 13:37, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: Fab. I found I could only get it to play by right clicking and saving the file to my desktop. Then FLV media player loved it. Thanks v much - fascinating stuff! Apart from peak distortion and telerecording (optical sound?) hiss, Richard?s actual speech intelligibility was better than a lot of today?s broadcast TV offerings! Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > wrote: There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good historical stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is irritating. I ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which you might enjoy - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in Firefox and Edge. It's 120MB B -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Sat Jun 8 08:31:16 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 13:31:16 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> Message-ID: Me, January 1960. Ah yes, Pat Jenner. My lasting memory of her was one afternoon just as we were about to start a final runthrough for whatever it was that day - might have been a Blue Peter. Whatever it was, it was pretty important at the time. The SCR phone rang - I answered it, saying quickly: ?Can?t talk now (and why)?. She replied: ?But this is Admin!?. That remark put a lot in perspective for me! Nick. Sent from my iPad On 8 Jun 2019, at 13:50, Alex Thomas via Tech1 > wrote: Hugh, I joined Tech ops in June 1960. HTO Tel S was R. de B. McCollough. His assistant was Bill Bailey I think. I never ever met either of them in the 5 years that I was in the department. I have always been intrigued by the ?de B? in McCullough?s name. Did he have Channel Island connections? I will never forget Pat Jenner who guarded BBC funds with great care. If we were working at Riverside, she would save a couple of pence on the bus fare by insisting that we alighted outside the Hammersmith library and not travel into the next fare stage. It certainly was not the nearest bus stop to Riverside. That would have been at the top of Fulham Palace Road by the old mortuary. From: Tech1 > On Behalf Of Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 Sent: 08 June 2019 08:33 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 As I recall, Raymond McCollough (the lighting engineer at Riverside) was HTOTelS when I joined in 1958. Others recognised were Henry Tarner (HE Tel News) and Tony Stanley (HE Tel Projects). A great clip, particularly re. zoom lenses that I'd thought were later. Hugh On 07-Jun-19 3:05 PM, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Yes, most interesting, it played OK in Firefox but I couldn't find a way of saving it. Could that be Gil Walker lifting the lid on the Emitron camera at 2' 09"? Regards, Hibou. On 07/06/2019 13:37, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: Fab. I found I could only get it to play by right clicking and saving the file to my desktop. Then FLV media player loved it. Thanks v much - fascinating stuff! Apart from peak distortion and telerecording (optical sound?) hiss, Richard?s actual speech intelligibility was better than a lot of today?s broadcast TV offerings! Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > wrote: There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good historical stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is irritating. I ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which you might enjoy - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in Firefox and Edge. It's 120MB B -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com Sat Jun 8 08:32:59 2019 From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 14:32:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> Message-ID: Hi Hugh, ?twas Bill Bailiff methinks. Barry. On 8 Jun 2019, at 13:49, Alex Thomas via Tech1 wrote: > Hugh, > > I joined Tech ops in June 1960. HTO Tel S was R. de B. McCollough. His assistant was Bill Bailey I think. > > I never ever met either of them in the 5 years that I was in the department. > > I have always been intrigued by the ?de B? in McCullough?s name. Did he have Channel Island connections? > > > I will never forget Pat Jenner who guarded BBC funds with great care. > > If we were working at Riverside, she would save a couple of pence on the bus fare by insisting that we alighted outside the Hammersmith library and not travel into the next fare stage. > > It certainly was not the nearest bus stop to Riverside. That would have been at the top of Fulham Palace Road by the old mortuary. > > From: Tech1 On Behalf Of Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 > Sent: 08 June 2019 08:33 > To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 > > As I recall, Raymond McCollough (the lighting engineer at Riverside) was HTOTelS when I joined in 1958. Others recognised were Henry Tarner (HE Tel News) and Tony Stanley (HE Tel Projects). A great clip, particularly re. zoom lenses that I'd thought were later. > > Hugh > > On 07-Jun-19 3:05 PM, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > Yes, most interesting, it played OK in Firefox but I couldn't find a way of saving it. > > Could that be Gil Walker lifting the lid on the Emitron camera at 2' 09"? > > Regards, > > Hibou. > > > > On 07/06/2019 13:37, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > Fab. I found I could only get it to play by right clicking and saving the file to my desktop. Then FLV media player loved it. > > Thanks v much - fascinating stuff! Apart from peak distortion and telerecording (optical sound?) hiss, Richard?s actual speech intelligibility was better than a lot of today?s broadcast TV offerings! > Cheers, > Nick. > Sent from my iPad > > On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > > There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good historical stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is irritating. I ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which you might enjoy - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 > > It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in Firefox and Edge. It's 120MB > > B > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Sat Jun 8 08:44:56 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 14:44:56 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> Message-ID: <60BFE405D5BC4FB9868359D1A2F816F5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Re Raymond de B McCollough. His mother?s maiden name was De Bude. He was born in or around Brentford 11th Jan 1915, married at Hove in 1958 to Jane L Fyffe and died Bath & N.E. Somerset in 2000. All courtesy of Ancestry of course! Dave Newbitt. PS. We always referred to the Admin Office as ?The Jennery? as I recall. From: Alex Thomas via Tech1 Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2019 1:49 PM To: 'Hugh Sheppard' ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. Hugh, I joined Tech ops in June 1960. HTO Tel S was R. de B. McCollough. His assistant was Bill Bailey I think. I never ever met either of them in the 5 years that I was in the department. I have always been intrigued by the ?de B? in McCullough?s name. Did he have Channel Island connections? I will never forget Pat Jenner who guarded BBC funds with great care. If we were working at Riverside, she would save a couple of pence on the bus fare by insisting that we alighted outside the Hammersmith library and not travel into the next fare stage. It certainly was not the nearest bus stop to Riverside. That would have been at the top of Fulham Palace Road by the old mortuary. From: Tech1 On Behalf Of Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 Sent: 08 June 2019 08:33 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 As I recall, Raymond McCollough (the lighting engineer at Riverside) was HTOTelS when I joined in 1958. Others recognised were Henry Tarner (HE Tel News) and Tony Stanley (HE Tel Projects). A great clip, particularly re. zoom lenses that I'd thought were later. Hugh On 07-Jun-19 3:05 PM, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Yes, most interesting, it played OK in Firefox but I couldn't find a way of saving it. Could that be Gil Walker lifting the lid on the Emitron camera at 2' 09"? Regards, Hibou. On 07/06/2019 13:37, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: Fab. I found I could only get it to play by right clicking and saving the file to my desktop. Then FLV media player loved it. Thanks v much - fascinating stuff! Apart from peak distortion and telerecording (optical sound?) hiss, Richard?s actual speech intelligibility was better than a lot of today?s broadcast TV offerings! Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good historical stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is irritating. I ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which you might enjoy - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in Firefox and Edge. It's 120MB B -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Sat Jun 8 08:54:43 2019 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2019 14:54:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> Message-ID: <57c0efafd1dave@davesound.co.uk> In article <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net>, Alex Thomas via Tech1 wrote: > I joined Tech ops in June 1960. HTO Tel S was R. de B. McCollough. His > assistant was Bill Bailey I think. > > I never ever met either of them in the 5 years that I was in the > department. I had an 'interesting' interview with R deB. A termination interview. Luckily, saw the personnel file on his desk. For another with the same surname. Never did get an apology either. -- *You sound reasonable......time to up my medication Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk London SW 12 From dave at davesound.co.uk Sat Jun 8 08:50:31 2019 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2019 14:50:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> Message-ID: <57c0ef4d56dave@davesound.co.uk> In article <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net>, Alex Thomas via Tech1 wrote: > I will never forget Pat Jenner who guarded BBC funds with great care. > > If we were working at Riverside, she would save a couple of pence on the > bus fare by insisting that we alighted outside the Hammersmith library > and not travel into the next fare stage. You were lucky. I lived in Barnes, and she wanted me to refund the BBC when working at Riverside. ;-) -- *Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you. Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk London SW 12 From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Sat Jun 8 09:04:09 2019 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (Geoffrey Hawkes) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 15:04:09 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 In-Reply-To: References: <624d4fcf-8fcd-fdb2-ecb5-a2588d5b9652@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: <6C7D00EC-C146-4AE3-BF80-33168F64B58F@gmail.com> Thanks for making the point about the Raymond McCulloch who featured in that Panorama clip. I was wondering if he was R de B McCulloch who was either H.T.O.Tel. S when I joined in 1963 or had just left. Bill Bailiff was the other name if I got it right who occupied that office in the realms of glory. The name Sampson comes to mind as well. I never met or even caught a glimpse of any them either and wouldn?t have known if I?d passed them in the corridor. A pity really as I think it good when managers try to relate to those under them rather than stand aloof like monarchs. It was good to see his face on that clip anyway, as it was the now antique equipment, Geoff > On 8 Jun 2019, at 08:33, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: > > As I recall, Raymond McCollough (the lighting engineer at Riverside) was HTOTelS when I joined in 1958. Others recognised were Henry Tarner (HE Tel News) and Tony Stanley (HE Tel Projects). A great clip, particularly re. zoom lenses that I'd thought were later. > > Hugh > >> On 07-Jun-19 3:05 PM, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >> Yes, most interesting, it played OK in Firefox but I couldn't find a way of saving it. >> >> Could that be Gil Walker lifting the lid on the Emitron camera at 2' 09"? >> >> Regards, >> >> Hibou. >> >> >> >>> On 07/06/2019 13:37, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> Fab. I found I could only get it to play by right clicking and saving the file to my desktop. Then FLV media player loved it. >>>> Thanks v much - fascinating stuff! Apart from peak distortion and telerecording (optical sound?) hiss, Richard?s actual speech intelligibility was better than a lot of today?s broadcast TV offerings! >>>> Cheers, >>>> Nick. >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>>> There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good historical stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is irritating. I ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which you might enjoy - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 >>>>> >>>>> It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in Firefox and Edge. It's 120MB >>>>> >>>>> B >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Sat Jun 8 09:11:23 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 15:11:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> Message-ID: <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> I remember McCullough (with a ?u??) I saw him at my final ?goodbye? when I left the BBC in 1969. He wished me well in my new career in the film industry, and said that if in five years or so, it didn?t work out, then he saw no reason for me not to come back to the BBC. Lovely to have that safety net, but as things turned out, I did not need it. However, around five years after I left, I visited LG and had a tea in the canteen, talked to Pete Rose (whose funeral I attended in Portishead), and he was gloomy, saying that he wished he?d followed my example and got out when I did. I gathered that it was not a happy time in Tech Ops at that juncture. Puts it at around 1974. I also remember trotting down to the ?Jennery? on the corner of the Green. She could be quite fierce, and I encountered a similar lady at Thames Euston, who was the admin person for the Film Unit there, with which I used to have various six monthly contracts. There was an occasion where I working as Assistant/Boom Op with another freelance mixer, on a doco about Barry Sheene, the racing motorcyclist. After several shoots with him in the UK, it transpired that the crew should follow him to Daytona USA for an important race. I was to be replaced by a staff sound assistant, but my mixer read the riot act and insisted that as I had been on the previous shoots, that I should go. So with very bad grace, she allowed me the job and I went ? to be nearly killed when Barry crashed in practice, heading straight towards me! Regards Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Alex Thomas via Tech1 Sent: 08 June 2019 13:50 To: 'Hugh Sheppard'; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. Hugh, I joined Tech ops in June 1960. HTO Tel S was R. de B. McCollough. His assistant was Bill Bailey I think. I never ever met either of them in the 5 years that I was in the department. I will never forget Pat Jenner who guarded BBC funds with great care. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hughsheppard at btinternet.com Sat Jun 8 10:51:22 2019 From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 16:51:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> Message-ID: <2596f462-41c8-ecfd-f02c-af416d9bad93@btinternet.com> Just so. R. de B. was austere; Bill took over from him and was more amiable. Later on, Norman Taylor took over from Bill methinks. Hugh On 08-Jun-19 2:32 PM, Barry Bonner wrote: > Hi Hugh, ?twas Bill Bailiff methinks. > Barry. > > > > On 8 Jun 2019, at 13:49, Alex Thomas via Tech1 > wrote: > >> Hugh, >> I joined Tech ops in June 1960. HTO Tel S was R. de B. McCollough. >> His assistant was Bill Bailey I think. >> I never ever met either of them in the 5 years that I was in the >> department. >> I have always been intrigued by the ?de B? in McCullough?s name. Did >> he have Channel Island connections? >> I will never forget Pat Jenner who guarded BBC funds with great care. >> If we were working at Riverside, she would save a couple of pence on >> the bus fare by insisting that we alighted outside the Hammersmith >> library and not travel into the next fare stage. >> It certainly was not the nearest bus stop to Riverside. That would >> have been at the top of Fulham Palace Road by the old mortuary. >> *From:*Tech1 > >*On Behalf Of*Hugh Sheppard via >> Tech1 >> *Sent:*08 June 2019 08:33 >> *To:*tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> *Subject:*Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 >> >> As I recall, Raymond McCollough (the lighting engineer at Riverside) >> was HTOTelS when I joined in 1958. Others recognised were Henry >> Tarner (HE Tel News) and Tony Stanley (HE Tel Projects). A great >> clip, particularly re. zoom lenses that I'd thought were later. >> >> Hugh >> >> On 07-Jun-19 3:05 PM, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Yes, most interesting, it played OK in Firefox but I couldn't >> find a way of saving it. >> >> Could that be Gil Walker lifting the lid on the Emitron camera at >> 2' 09"? >> >> Regards, >> >> Hibou. >> >> On 07/06/2019 13:37, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >> >> >> Fab. I found I could only get it to play by right clicking >> and saving the file to my desktop. Then FLV media player >> loved it. >> >> Thanks v much - fascinating stuff! Apart from peak >> distortion and telerecording (optical sound?) hiss, >> Richard?s actual speech intelligibility was better than a >> lot of today?s broadcast TV offerings! >> Cheers, >> Nick. >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 >> > wrote: >> >> There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has >> lots of good historical stuff. I can't find the site >> outside Facebook, which is irritating.? I ripped off >> this piece from Panorama in 1956, which you might >> enjoy -http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 >> >> It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, >> but does in Firefox and Edge. It's 120MB >> >> B >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From keithwicksuk at gmail.com Sat Jun 8 11:49:30 2019 From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 17:49:30 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Panorama 1956 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the interesting clip. It played perfectly on my slow, old Mac (which often has difficulty with complex web pages) using gmail on Chrome. I also saved the item as a 122 MB mp4 file without encountering any problem. KW On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good historical > stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is irritating. I > ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which you might enjoy - > http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 > > It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in Firefox > and Edge. It's 120MB > > B > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rogerbunce at btinternet.com Sat Jun 8 13:00:23 2019 From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 18:00:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 In-Reply-To: <339219D7989E41129ECFDCB23D6DABBA@AdminPC> References: <624d4fcf-8fcd-fdb2-ecb5-a2588d5b9652@howell61.f9.co.uk> <1621338999.145959.1559990985866@mail.yahoo.com> <339219D7989E41129ECFDCB23D6DABBA@AdminPC> Message-ID: <264194708.329372.1560016823380@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks David - a treasure trove of wonders. I couldn't actually find the Richard Dimbleby bit there, but found myself distracted by a 1965 film of Delia Derbyshire in the Radiophonic Workshop. I'd never seen a movie of her before - a heroine to all Doctor Who Fans. luv, Rog. On Saturday, 8 June 2019, 12:00:54 BST, David Brunt wrote: Save the video page. https://www.facebook.com/search/videos/?q=bbc%20archive&ref=eyJzaWQiOiIwLjkxNTk2MjM0MDk5NDcxNTciLCJyZWYiOiJ0b3BfZmlsdGVyIn0%3D&epa=SERP_TAB You may have to scroll down. If you use something like YouTube Downloader (YTD), you can download the clip to your machine by just copying the page URL into the box. http://www.ytddownloader.com/ ?From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2019 11:49 AMTo: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk ; Hugh Sheppard Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956?I've enjoyed a lot of these releases from BBC Archive. They appear on 'Facebook', when first released, but then I find it difficult to trace them, when I want to see them again. If they went onto YouTube, or a similar site, they would be available to view in perpetuity. Maybe they are, and I'm just to dim to know where to look. Anyone know if there an easy way of locating them at will????? luv, Rog.?On Saturday, 8 June 2019, 08:33:39 BST, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: ?? As I recall, Raymond McCollough (the lighting engineer at Riverside) was HTOTelS when I joined in 1958. Others recognised were Henry Tarner (HE Tel News) and Tony Stanley (HE Tel Projects). A great clip, particularly re. zoom lenses that I'd thought were later. Hugh On 07-Jun-19 3:05 PM, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Yes, most interesting, it played OK in Firefox but I couldn't find a way of saving it. Could that be Gil Walker lifting the lid on the Emitron camera at 2' 09"? Regards, Hibou. ? On 07/06/2019 13:37, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: Fab. I found I could only get it to play by right clicking and saving the file to my desktop. Then FLV media player loved it. Thanks v much - fascinating stuff! Apart from peak distortion and telerecording (optical sound?) hiss, Richard?s actual speech intelligibility was better than a lot of today?s broadcast TV offerings! Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good historical stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is irritating.? I ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which you might enjoy - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in Firefox and Edge.? It's 120MB B -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidvbrunt at gmail.com Sat Jun 8 13:13:44 2019 From: davidvbrunt at gmail.com (David Brunt) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 19:13:44 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 In-Reply-To: <264194708.329372.1560016823380@mail.yahoo.com> References: <624d4fcf-8fcd-fdb2-ecb5-a2588d5b9652@howell61.f9.co.uk> <1621338999.145959.1559990985866@mail.yahoo.com> <339219D7989E41129ECFDCB23D6DABBA@AdminPC> <264194708.329372.1560016823380@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dimble https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2053447424767623 From: ROGER BUNCE Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2019 7:00 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk ; David Brunt Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 Thanks David - a treasure trove of wonders. I couldn't actually find the Richard Dimbleby bit there, but found myself distracted by a 1965 film of Delia Derbyshire in the Radiophonic Workshop. I'd never seen a movie of her before - a heroine to all Doctor Who Fans. luv, Rog. On Saturday, 8 June 2019, 12:00:54 BST, David Brunt wrote: Save the video page. https://www.facebook.com/search/videos/?q=bbc%20archive&ref=eyJzaWQiOiIwLjkxNTk2MjM0MDk5NDcxNTciLCJyZWYiOiJ0b3BfZmlsdGVyIn0%3D&epa=SERP_TAB You may have to scroll down. If you use something like YouTube Downloader (YTD), you can download the clip to your machine by just copying the page URL into the box. http://www.ytddownloader.com/ From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2019 11:49 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk ; Hugh Sheppard Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Panorama 1956 I've enjoyed a lot of these releases from BBC Archive. They appear on 'Facebook', when first released, but then I find it difficult to trace them, when I want to see them again. If they went onto YouTube, or a similar site, they would be available to view in perpetuity. Maybe they are, and I'm just to dim to know where to look. Anyone know if there an easy way of locating them at will? luv, Rog. On Saturday, 8 June 2019, 08:33:39 BST, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: As I recall, Raymond McCollough (the lighting engineer at Riverside) was HTOTelS when I joined in 1958. Others recognised were Henry Tarner (HE Tel News) and Tony Stanley (HE Tel Projects). A great clip, particularly re. zoom lenses that I'd thought were later. Hugh On 07-Jun-19 3:05 PM, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Yes, most interesting, it played OK in Firefox but I couldn't find a way of saving it. Could that be Gil Walker lifting the lid on the Emitron camera at 2' 09"? Regards, Hibou. On 07/06/2019 13:37, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: Fab. I found I could only get it to play by right clicking and saving the file to my desktop. Then FLV media player loved it. Thanks v much - fascinating stuff! Apart from peak distortion and telerecording (optical sound?) hiss, Richard?s actual speech intelligibility was better than a lot of today?s broadcast TV offerings! Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 7 Jun 2019, at 12:52, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: There's a BBC Archive page on Facebook, which has lots of good historical stuff. I can't find the site outside Facebook, which is irritating. I ripped off this piece from Panorama in 1956, which you might enjoy - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/panorama_tv_1956.mp4 It doesn't seem to want to play in my copy of Chrome, but does in Firefox and Edge. It's 120MB B -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Sat Jun 8 15:55:00 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 21:55:00 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> Message-ID: We had an equally fearsome, though rather younger lady in Bristol who guarded Aunty?s purse with the same degree of vigour as Pat Jenner, who was still ruling the expenses roost when I moved up to TVC. I quite forget the Bristol dragon?s name, but had many tussles with her over mileage claims and the number of meals that we may or may not have been entitled to. We usually had an SM or two on attachment from BH and she was particularly at odds with them, but she had her Damascus Road moment when she had to go on a three month course in London. The very BH SM?s who she was so at pains to penalise had the good sense to offer her accommodation at a very reasonable rate, using a room that was normally occupied by one of the SM?s who was currently in Bristol on attachment. But, of course, she was claiming Sched ?A? and probably other things beside and came back to Bristol with an absolute gleam in her eye and far greater tolerance of the perfectly legitimate expenses claims that she would previously have pared to the bone. We never did establish whether the gleam was inspired by the handsome profit she had made, or her encounter with an equally handsome, very large and very naked Nigerian gent, who was standing full frontal in the bath when she burst in to the bathroom one morning. As an unmarried lady, we gathered that this was a totally new experience for her! But something had pierced her iron shell. Mike G > On 8 Jun 2019, at 15:11, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: > > I remember McCullough (with a ?u??) > I saw him at my final ?goodbye? when I left the BBC in 1969. > He wished me well in my new career in the film industry, and said that if in five years or so, it didn?t work out, then he saw no reason for me not to come back to the BBC. Lovely to have that safety net, but as things turned out, I did not need it. > However, around five years after I left, I visited LG and had a tea in the canteen, talked to Pete Rose (whose funeral I attended in Portishead), and he was gloomy, saying that he wished he?d followed my example and got out when I did. I gathered that it was not a happy time in Tech Ops at that juncture. Puts it at around 1974. > > I also remember trotting down to the ?Jennery? on the corner of the Green. > She could be quite fierce, and I encountered a similar lady at Thames Euston, who was the admin person for the Film Unit there, with which I used to have various six monthly contracts. > There was an occasion where I working as Assistant/Boom Op with another freelance mixer, on a doco about Barry Sheene, the racing motorcyclist. After several shoots with him in the UK, it transpired that the crew should follow him to Daytona USA for an important race. I was to be replaced by a staff sound assistant, but my mixer read the riot act and insisted that as I had been on the previous shoots, that I should go. > So with very bad grace, she allowed me the job and I went ? to be nearly killed when Barry crashed in practice, heading straight towards me! > Regards > Pat > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Alex Thomas via Tech1 > Sent: 08 June 2019 13:50 > To: 'Hugh Sheppard' ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. > > Hugh, > > I joined Tech ops in June 1960. HTO Tel S was R. de B. McCollough. His assistant was Bill Bailey I think. > > I never ever met either of them in the 5 years that I was in the department. > > > > I will never forget Pat Jenner who guarded BBC funds with great care. > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Sat Jun 8 16:07:30 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 21:07:30 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com>, Message-ID: Not sure I understand that last sentence correctly. Or maybe I do! Nick. Sent from my iPad On 8 Jun 2019, at 21:55, Mike Giles via Tech1 > wrote: We had an equally fearsome, though rather younger lady in Bristol who guarded Aunty?s purse with the same degree of vigour as Pat Jenner, who was still ruling the expenses roost when I moved up to TVC. I quite forget the Bristol dragon?s name, but had many tussles with her over mileage claims and the number of meals that we may or may not have been entitled to. We usually had an SM or two on attachment from BH and she was particularly at odds with them, but she had her Damascus Road moment when she had to go on a three month course in London. The very BH SM?s who she was so at pains to penalise had the good sense to offer her accommodation at a very reasonable rate, using a room that was normally occupied by one of the SM?s who was currently in Bristol on attachment. But, of course, she was claiming Sched ?A? and probably other things beside and came back to Bristol with an absolute gleam in her eye and far greater tolerance of the perfectly legitimate expenses claims that she would previously have pared to the bone. We never did establish whether the gleam was inspired by the handsome profit she had made, or her encounter with an equally handsome, very large and very naked Nigerian gent, who was standing full frontal in the bath when she burst in to the bathroom one morning. As an unmarried lady, we gathered that this was a totally new experience for her! But something had pierced her iron shell. Mike G On 8 Jun 2019, at 15:11, patheigham via Tech1 > wrote: I remember McCullough (with a ?u??) I saw him at my final ?goodbye? when I left the BBC in 1969. He wished me well in my new career in the film industry, and said that if in five years or so, it didn?t work out, then he saw no reason for me not to come back to the BBC. Lovely to have that safety net, but as things turned out, I did not need it. However, around five years after I left, I visited LG and had a tea in the canteen, talked to Pete Rose (whose funeral I attended in Portishead), and he was gloomy, saying that he wished he?d followed my example and got out when I did. I gathered that it was not a happy time in Tech Ops at that juncture. Puts it at around 1974. I also remember trotting down to the ?Jennery? on the corner of the Green. She could be quite fierce, and I encountered a similar lady at Thames Euston, who was the admin person for the Film Unit there, with which I used to have various six monthly contracts. There was an occasion where I working as Assistant/Boom Op with another freelance mixer, on a doco about Barry Sheene, the racing motorcyclist. After several shoots with him in the UK, it transpired that the crew should follow him to Daytona USA for an important race. I was to be replaced by a staff sound assistant, but my mixer read the riot act and insisted that as I had been on the previous shoots, that I should go. So with very bad grace, she allowed me the job and I went ? to be nearly killed when Barry crashed in practice, heading straight towards me! Regards Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Alex Thomas via Tech1 Sent: 08 June 2019 13:50 To: 'Hugh Sheppard'; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. Hugh, I joined Tech ops in June 1960. HTO Tel S was R. de B. McCollough. His assistant was Bill Bailey I think. I never ever met either of them in the 5 years that I was in the department. I will never forget Pat Jenner who guarded BBC funds with great care. [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif] Virus-free. www.avast.com -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cliffwhite4628 at gmail.com Sun Jun 9 00:43:02 2019 From: cliffwhite4628 at gmail.com (Cliff White) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 06:43:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> Message-ID: "Mac" Hipwood is the name you are looking for, Mike. Dunno what the "Mac" stood for though! She also spent a lot of time going to Polo matches. She had two nephews - the Hipwood brothers, of whom she was very proud - who were world class Polo players. Great friends with HRH, too, so rumour has it!! Regards Cliff On 6/8/19, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > We had an equally fearsome, though rather younger lady in Bristol who > guarded Aunty?s purse with the same degree of vigour as Pat Jenner, who was > still ruling the expenses roost when I moved up to TVC. I quite forget the > Bristol dragon?s name, but had many tussles with her over mileage claims and > the number of meals that we may or may not have been entitled to. We usually > had an SM or two on attachment from BH and she was particularly at odds with > them, but she had her Damascus Road moment when she had to go on a three > month course in London. The very BH SM?s who she was so at pains to penalise > had the good sense to offer her accommodation at a very reasonable rate, > using a room that was normally occupied by one of the SM?s who was currently > in Bristol on attachment. But, of course, she was claiming Sched ?A? and > probably other things beside and came back to Bristol with an absolute gleam > in her eye and far greater tolerance of the perfectly legitimate expenses > claims that she would previously have pared to the bone. We never did > establish whether the gleam was inspired by the handsome profit she had > made, or her encounter with an equally handsome, very large and very naked > Nigerian gent, who was standing full frontal in the bath when she burst in > to the bathroom one morning. As an unmarried lady, we gathered that this was > a totally new experience for her! But something had pierced her iron shell. > > Mike G > > >> On 8 Jun 2019, at 15:11, patheigham via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> I remember McCullough (with a ?u??) >> I saw him at my final ?goodbye? when I left the BBC in 1969. >> He wished me well in my new career in the film industry, and said that if >> in five years or so, it didn?t work out, then he saw no reason for me not >> to come back to the BBC. Lovely to have that safety net, but as things >> turned out, I did not need it. >> However, around five years after I left, I visited LG and had a tea in the >> canteen, talked to Pete Rose (whose funeral I attended in Portishead), and >> he was gloomy, saying that he wished he?d followed my example and got out >> when I did. I gathered that it was not a happy time in Tech Ops at that >> juncture. Puts it at around 1974. >> >> I also remember trotting down to the ?Jennery? on the corner of the >> Green. >> She could be quite fierce, and I encountered a similar lady at Thames >> Euston, who was the admin person for the Film Unit there, with which I >> used to have various six monthly contracts. >> There was an occasion where I working as Assistant/Boom Op with another >> freelance mixer, on a doco about Barry Sheene, the racing motorcyclist. >> After several shoots with him in the UK, it transpired that the crew >> should follow him to Daytona USA for an important race. I was to be >> replaced by a staff sound assistant, but my mixer read the riot act and >> insisted that as I had been on the previous shoots, that I should go. >> So with very bad grace, she allowed me the job and I went ? to be nearly >> killed when Barry crashed in practice, heading straight towards me! >> Regards >> Pat >> >> >> Sent from Mail for >> Windows 10 >> >> From: Alex Thomas via Tech1 >> Sent: 08 June 2019 13:50 >> To: 'Hugh Sheppard' ; >> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. >> >> Hugh, >> >> I joined Tech ops in June 1960. HTO Tel S was R. de B. McCollough. His >> assistant was Bill Bailey I think. >> >> I never ever met either of them in the 5 years that I was in the >> department. >> >> >> >> I will never forget Pat Jenner who guarded BBC funds with great care. >> >> >> >> >> >> Virus-free. >> www.avast.com >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > From mibridge at mac.com Sun Jun 9 01:13:32 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 07:13:32 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> Ah yes! Mike > On 9 Jun 2019, at 06:43, Cliff White wrote: > > "Mac" Hipwood is the name you are looking for, Mike. Dunno what the > "Mac" stood for though! > She also spent a lot of time going to Polo matches. She had two > nephews - the Hipwood brothers, of whom she was very proud - who were > world class Polo players. Great friends with HRH, too, so rumour has > it!! > Regards > Cliff > >> On 6/8/19, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >> We had an equally fearsome, though rather younger lady in Bristol who >> guarded Aunty?s purse with the same degree of vigour as Pat Jenner, who was >> still ruling the expenses roost when I moved up to TVC. I quite forget the >> Bristol dragon?s name, but had many tussles with her over mileage claims and >> the number of meals that we may or may not have been entitled to. We usually >> had an SM or two on attachment from BH and she was particularly at odds with >> them, but she had her Damascus Road moment when she had to go on a three >> month course in London. The very BH SM?s who she was so at pains to penalise >> had the good sense to offer her accommodation at a very reasonable rate, >> using a room that was normally occupied by one of the SM?s who was currently >> in Bristol on attachment. But, of course, she was claiming Sched ?A? and >> probably other things beside and came back to Bristol with an absolute gleam >> in her eye and far greater tolerance of the perfectly legitimate expenses >> claims that she would previously have pared to the bone. We never did >> establish whether the gleam was inspired by the handsome profit she had >> made, or her encounter with an equally handsome, very large and very naked >> Nigerian gent, who was standing full frontal in the bath when she burst in >> to the bathroom one morning. As an unmarried lady, we gathered that this was >> a totally new experience for her! But something had pierced her iron shell. >> >> Mike G >> >> >>> On 8 Jun 2019, at 15:11, patheigham via Tech1 >>> wrote: >>> >>> I remember McCullough (with a ?u??) >>> I saw him at my final ?goodbye? when I left the BBC in 1969. >>> He wished me well in my new career in the film industry, and said that if >>> in five years or so, it didn?t work out, then he saw no reason for me not >>> to come back to the BBC. Lovely to have that safety net, but as things >>> turned out, I did not need it. >>> However, around five years after I left, I visited LG and had a tea in the >>> canteen, talked to Pete Rose (whose funeral I attended in Portishead), and >>> he was gloomy, saying that he wished he?d followed my example and got out >>> when I did. I gathered that it was not a happy time in Tech Ops at that >>> juncture. Puts it at around 1974. >>> >>> I also remember trotting down to the ?Jennery? on the corner of the >>> Green. >>> She could be quite fierce, and I encountered a similar lady at Thames >>> Euston, who was the admin person for the Film Unit there, with which I >>> used to have various six monthly contracts. >>> There was an occasion where I working as Assistant/Boom Op with another >>> freelance mixer, on a doco about Barry Sheene, the racing motorcyclist. >>> After several shoots with him in the UK, it transpired that the crew >>> should follow him to Daytona USA for an important race. I was to be >>> replaced by a staff sound assistant, but my mixer read the riot act and >>> insisted that as I had been on the previous shoots, that I should go. >>> So with very bad grace, she allowed me the job and I went ? to be nearly >>> killed when Barry crashed in practice, heading straight towards me! >>> Regards >>> Pat >>> >>> >>> Sent from Mail for >>> Windows 10 >>> >>> From: Alex Thomas via Tech1 >>> Sent: 08 June 2019 13:50 >>> To: 'Hugh Sheppard' ; >>> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. >>> >>> Hugh, >>> >>> I joined Tech ops in June 1960. HTO Tel S was R. de B. McCollough. His >>> assistant was Bill Bailey I think. >>> >>> I never ever met either of them in the 5 years that I was in the >>> department. >>> >>> >>> >>> I will never forget Pat Jenner who guarded BBC funds with great care. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Virus-free. >>> www.avast.com >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >> From geoffletch at gmail.com Sun Jun 9 08:37:57 2019 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 14:37:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> Message-ID: Bill Bailiff wasn?t he? Met him a couple of times if you can call it that. He?s mentioned in my diaries, along with Frank Pottinger etc. When I left the BBC in February 1970 I had the same offer from Frank - come back if it doesn?t work out at Anglia. Like Pat, it all worked out fine, but I thought it was pretty decent of the old form to maKe me the offer. G On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 07:14, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > Ah yes! > > Mike > > > On 9 Jun 2019, at 06:43, Cliff White wrote: > > > > "Mac" Hipwood is the name you are looking for, Mike. Dunno what the > > "Mac" stood for though! > > She also spent a lot of time going to Polo matches. She had two > > nephews - the Hipwood brothers, of whom she was very proud - who were > > world class Polo players. Great friends with HRH, too, so rumour has > > it!! > > Regards > > Cliff > > > >> On 6/8/19, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > >> We had an equally fearsome, though rather younger lady in Bristol who > >> guarded Aunty?s purse with the same degree of vigour as Pat Jenner, who > was > >> still ruling the expenses roost when I moved up to TVC. I quite forget > the > >> Bristol dragon?s name, but had many tussles with her over mileage > claims and > >> the number of meals that we may or may not have been entitled to. We > usually > >> had an SM or two on attachment from BH and she was particularly at odds > with > >> them, but she had her Damascus Road moment when she had to go on a three > >> month course in London. The very BH SM?s who she was so at pains to > penalise > >> had the good sense to offer her accommodation at a very reasonable rate, > >> using a room that was normally occupied by one of the SM?s who was > currently > >> in Bristol on attachment. But, of course, she was claiming Sched ?A? and > >> probably other things beside and came back to Bristol with an absolute > gleam > >> in her eye and far greater tolerance of the perfectly legitimate > expenses > >> claims that she would previously have pared to the bone. We never did > >> establish whether the gleam was inspired by the handsome profit she had > >> made, or her encounter with an equally handsome, very large and very > naked > >> Nigerian gent, who was standing full frontal in the bath when she burst > in > >> to the bathroom one morning. As an unmarried lady, we gathered that > this was > >> a totally new experience for her! But something had pierced her iron > shell. > >> > >> Mike G > >> > >> > >>> On 8 Jun 2019, at 15:11, patheigham via Tech1 > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> I remember McCullough (with a ?u??) > >>> I saw him at my final ?goodbye? when I left the BBC in 1969. > >>> He wished me well in my new career in the film industry, and said that > if > >>> in five years or so, it didn?t work out, then he saw no reason for me > not > >>> to come back to the BBC. Lovely to have that safety net, but as things > >>> turned out, I did not need it. > >>> However, around five years after I left, I visited LG and had a tea in > the > >>> canteen, talked to Pete Rose (whose funeral I attended in Portishead), > and > >>> he was gloomy, saying that he wished he?d followed my example and got > out > >>> when I did. I gathered that it was not a happy time in Tech Ops at that > >>> juncture. Puts it at around 1974. > >>> > >>> I also remember trotting down to the ?Jennery? on the corner of the > >>> Green. > >>> She could be quite fierce, and I encountered a similar lady at Thames > >>> Euston, who was the admin person for the Film Unit there, with which I > >>> used to have various six monthly contracts. > >>> There was an occasion where I working as Assistant/Boom Op with another > >>> freelance mixer, on a doco about Barry Sheene, the racing motorcyclist. > >>> After several shoots with him in the UK, it transpired that the crew > >>> should follow him to Daytona USA for an important race. I was to be > >>> replaced by a staff sound assistant, but my mixer read the riot act and > >>> insisted that as I had been on the previous shoots, that I should go. > >>> So with very bad grace, she allowed me the job and I went ? to be > nearly > >>> killed when Barry crashed in practice, heading straight towards me! > >>> Regards > >>> Pat > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from Mail for > >>> Windows 10 > >>> > >>> From: Alex Thomas via Tech1 > >>> Sent: 08 June 2019 13:50 > >>> To: 'Hugh Sheppard' ; > >>> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > >>> Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. > >>> > >>> Hugh, > >>> > >>> I joined Tech ops in June 1960. HTO Tel S was R. de B. McCollough. His > >>> assistant was Bill Bailey I think. > >>> > >>> I never ever met either of them in the 5 years that I was in the > >>> department. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I will never forget Pat Jenner who guarded BBC funds with great care. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> < > https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > Virus-free. > >>> www.avast.com > >>> < > https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient > > > >>> -- > >>> Tech1 mailing list > >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > >>> > >> > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Sun Jun 9 08:53:04 2019 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 14:53:04 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> Message-ID: Rather different when I left in 1976. Some Australian git from human resources (!) told me I shouldn?t expect ever to work for the BBC again as I?d defected to ITV. ? Graeme Wall > On 9 Jun 2019, at 14:37, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 wrote: > > Bill Bailiff wasn?t he? Met him a couple of times if you can call it that. He?s mentioned in my diaries, along with Frank Pottinger etc. > When I left the BBC in February 1970 I had the same offer from Frank - come back if it doesn?t work out at Anglia. Like Pat, it all worked out fine, but I thought it was pretty decent of the old form to maKe me the offer. > G > > On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 07:14, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > Ah yes! > > Mike > > > On 9 Jun 2019, at 06:43, Cliff White wrote: > > > > "Mac" Hipwood is the name you are looking for, Mike. Dunno what the > > "Mac" stood for though! > > She also spent a lot of time going to Polo matches. She had two > > nephews - the Hipwood brothers, of whom she was very proud - who were > > world class Polo players. Great friends with HRH, too, so rumour has > > it!! > > Regards > > Cliff > > > >> On 6/8/19, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > >> We had an equally fearsome, though rather younger lady in Bristol who > >> guarded Aunty?s purse with the same degree of vigour as Pat Jenner, who was > >> still ruling the expenses roost when I moved up to TVC. I quite forget the > >> Bristol dragon?s name, but had many tussles with her over mileage claims and > >> the number of meals that we may or may not have been entitled to. We usually > >> had an SM or two on attachment from BH and she was particularly at odds with > >> them, but she had her Damascus Road moment when she had to go on a three > >> month course in London. The very BH SM?s who she was so at pains to penalise > >> had the good sense to offer her accommodation at a very reasonable rate, > >> using a room that was normally occupied by one of the SM?s who was currently > >> in Bristol on attachment. But, of course, she was claiming Sched ?A? and > >> probably other things beside and came back to Bristol with an absolute gleam > >> in her eye and far greater tolerance of the perfectly legitimate expenses > >> claims that she would previously have pared to the bone. We never did > >> establish whether the gleam was inspired by the handsome profit she had > >> made, or her encounter with an equally handsome, very large and very naked > >> Nigerian gent, who was standing full frontal in the bath when she burst in > >> to the bathroom one morning. As an unmarried lady, we gathered that this was > >> a totally new experience for her! But something had pierced her iron shell. > >> > >> Mike G > >> > >> > >>> On 8 Jun 2019, at 15:11, patheigham via Tech1 > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> I remember McCullough (with a ?u??) > >>> I saw him at my final ?goodbye? when I left the BBC in 1969. > >>> He wished me well in my new career in the film industry, and said that if > >>> in five years or so, it didn?t work out, then he saw no reason for me not > >>> to come back to the BBC. Lovely to have that safety net, but as things > >>> turned out, I did not need it. > >>> However, around five years after I left, I visited LG and had a tea in the > >>> canteen, talked to Pete Rose (whose funeral I attended in Portishead), and > >>> he was gloomy, saying that he wished he?d followed my example and got out > >>> when I did. I gathered that it was not a happy time in Tech Ops at that > >>> juncture. Puts it at around 1974. > >>> > >>> I also remember trotting down to the ?Jennery? on the corner of the > >>> Green. > >>> She could be quite fierce, and I encountered a similar lady at Thames > >>> Euston, who was the admin person for the Film Unit there, with which I > >>> used to have various six monthly contracts. > >>> There was an occasion where I working as Assistant/Boom Op with another > >>> freelance mixer, on a doco about Barry Sheene, the racing motorcyclist. > >>> After several shoots with him in the UK, it transpired that the crew > >>> should follow him to Daytona USA for an important race. I was to be > >>> replaced by a staff sound assistant, but my mixer read the riot act and > >>> insisted that as I had been on the previous shoots, that I should go. > >>> So with very bad grace, she allowed me the job and I went ? to be nearly > >>> killed when Barry crashed in practice, heading straight towards me! > >>> Regards > >>> Pat > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from Mail for > >>> Windows 10 > >>> > >>> From: Alex Thomas via Tech1 > >>> Sent: 08 June 2019 13:50 > >>> To: 'Hugh Sheppard' ; > >>> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > >>> Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. > >>> > >>> Hugh, > >>> > >>> I joined Tech ops in June 1960. HTO Tel S was R. de B. McCollough. His > >>> assistant was Bill Bailey I think. > >>> > >>> I never ever met either of them in the 5 years that I was in the > >>> department. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I will never forget Pat Jenner who guarded BBC funds with great care. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Virus-free. > >>> www.avast.com > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Tech1 mailing list > >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > >>> > >> > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From pat.heigham at amps.net Sun Jun 9 09:12:00 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 15:12:00 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> Message-ID: <5cfd13b0.1c69fb81.8e3df.adb3@mx.google.com> One thing that got my back up, and disappointed me was the introduction of graduate entries. I was assigned to train a chap who had been to university and joined the BBC as a graduate. Over coffee in the tea bar I asked him what he expected. ?Oh, Sound Supervisor, of course? This after but two years. This idea, in my view was a fearfully wrong one by management. Can?t remember if I mentioned this to H.T.O.Tel. S at my last ?goodbye?. Maybe I should have, but would anyone have paid attention? I was cross with that ? after spending six years or so, learning the business from the ground up, I would be overtaken in the promotion stakes. I deliberately did not tell him a few of my favourite tricks. When I left, I was concerned that maybe colleagues might have thought I had resigned in a fit of pique over that. No ? I took myself out of that race to go into the Film Industry ? which provided (thanks to BBC training) an excellent later career. Anyway, at 76, I can look back on a BBC career which was hugely enjoyable, fun, and made friends with whom I am still in contact, 50 something years later. TVC may well have been considered a ?factory?, but a little different from oily-fingered workers at lathes and machines. We didn?t have to clock in and out ? it was left to us. However, the overall institution was not a lot different? Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Sent: 09 June 2019 14:38 To: Mike Giles Cc: Tech Ops Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. When I left the BBC in February 1970 I had the same offer from Frank - come back if it doesn?t work out at Anglia. Like Pat, it all worked out fine, but I thought it was pretty decent of the old form to maKe me the offer. G --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoffletch at gmail.com Sun Jun 9 10:25:09 2019 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 16:25:09 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <5cfd13b0.1c69fb81.8e3df.adb3@mx.google.com> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> <5cfd13b0.1c69fb81.8e3df.adb3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yes - it annoyed me too Pat. Stuck on the roof of Grade and these guys came in and jumped over us all. We had a training session at the TV Theatre with a bunch of them. One was annoyingly good at tracking the mole crane. He seemed to have a natural gift for it and was very dismissive and arrogant in his manner with my crew mate who was Instructing him, and said crew mate was becoming more and more annoyed. At tea break he gave a succinct opinion of the direct entry guy and then went off somewhere. When we all returned to the fray he was much happier. Off we went on a production exercise and the cocky DI mole tracker slammed the raised arm into the balcony front when tracking back smartly and received a dire bollocking from the senior cameraman on the front. He was dismissed in disgrace to cable bashing. He had missed his tracking mark on the ladder - mainly because his instructor had nipped out during tea break and moved it back a foot! Names withheld to protect the guilty! G On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 15:12, patheigham wrote: > One thing that got my back up, and disappointed me was the introduction of > graduate entries. > > I was assigned to train a chap who had been to university and joined the > BBC as a graduate. > > Over coffee in the tea bar I asked him what he expected. > > ?Oh, Sound Supervisor, of course? This after but two years. > > This idea, in my view was a fearfully wrong one by management. > > Can?t remember if I mentioned this to H.T.O.Tel. S at my last ?goodbye?. > Maybe I should have, but would anyone have paid attention? > > I was cross with that ? after spending six years or so, learning the > business from the ground up, I would be overtaken in the promotion stakes. > > I deliberately did not tell him a few of my favourite tricks. > > When I left, I was concerned that maybe colleagues might have thought I > had resigned in a fit of pique over that. > > No ? I took myself out of that race to go into the Film Industry ? which > provided (thanks to BBC training) an excellent later career. > > Anyway, at 76, I can look back on a BBC career which was hugely enjoyable, > fun, and made friends with whom I am still in contact, > > 50 something years later. > > TVC may well have been considered a ?factory?, but a little different from > oily-fingered workers at lathes and machines. > > We didn?t have to clock in and out ? it was left to us. > > However, the overall institution was not a lot different? > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > Sent from Mail for > Windows 10 > > > > *From: *Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 > *Sent: *09 June 2019 14:38 > *To: *Mike Giles > *Cc: *Tech Ops > *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. > > > > When I left the BBC in February 1970 I had the same offer from Frank - > come back if it doesn?t work out at Anglia. Like Pat, it all worked out > fine, but I thought it was pretty decent of the old form to maKe me the > offer. > > G > > > > > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_-6002754175075359375_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Sun Jun 9 11:29:27 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 17:29:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> <5cfd13b0.1c69fb81.8e3df.adb3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5cfd33e7.1c69fb81.fee10.7534@mx.google.com> Interesting story, Geoff, I did hear, after I had left, that the fellow concerned with me, was Grams on a live show, involving two pre-recorded music off tape, and he managed to cue the second one first! Delay while spooling back to the correct one. Pity it wasn?t Stewart Morris! Sadly he was given an SS job , but I never saw his name on credits. There?s no replacement for ?time on the job? for learning the ?ins of the situation? John-John always had a feeling for encouraging talent, and I was grateful to him for pushing me into Grams as this was a way to learn the working of the Sound Control Rooms, later to become Sound Supervisor. I was granted an SS board, and after - they said that they couldn?t fault me on technicality, but at 27/28 thought that I would be too young to handle subordinate staff. Although disappointed, I had to admit that they were totally right. Burt they were wrong on the Direct Entry Front! Regards Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Geoff Fletcher Sent: 09 June 2019 16:25 To: patheigham Cc: Mike Giles; Tech Ops Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. Yes - it annoyed me too Pat. Stuck on the roof of Grade and these guys came in and jumped over us all.? We had a training session at the TV Theatre with a bunch of them. One was annoyingly good at tracking the mole crane.? He seemed to have a natural gift for it and was very dismissive and arrogant ?in his manner with my crew mate who was Instructing him, and said crew mate was becoming more and more annoyed. At tea break he gave a succinct opinion of the direct entry guy and then went off somewhere. When we all returned to the fray he was much happier. Off we went on a production exercise and the cocky DI mole tracker slammed the raised arm into the balcony front ?when tracking back smartly and received a dire bollocking from the senior cameraman on the front. He was dismissed in disgrace to cable bashing. He had missed his tracking mark on the ladder - mainly because his instructor had nipped out during tea break and moved it back a foot! Names withheld to protect the guilty! G On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 15:12, patheigham wrote: One thing that got my back up, and disappointed me was the introduction of graduate entries. I was assigned to train a chap who had been to university and joined the BBC as a graduate. Over coffee in the tea bar I asked him what he expected. ?Oh, Sound Supervisor, of course? This after but two years. This idea, in my view was a fearfully wrong one by management. Can?t remember if I mentioned this to H.T.O.Tel. S at my last ?goodbye?. Maybe I should have, but would anyone have paid attention? I was cross with that ? after spending six years or so, learning the business from the ground up, I would be overtaken in the promotion stakes. I deliberately did not tell him a few of my favourite tricks. When I left, I was concerned that maybe colleagues might have thought I had resigned in a fit of pique over that. No ? I took myself out of that race to go into the Film Industry ? which provided (thanks to BBC training) an excellent later career. Anyway, at 76, I can look back on a BBC career which was hugely enjoyable, fun, and made friends with whom I am still in contact, 50 something years later. TVC may well have been considered a ?factory?, but a little different from oily-fingered workers at lathes and machines. We didn?t have to clock in and out ? it was left to us. However, the overall institution was not a lot different? ? Pat ? ? ? --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Sun Jun 9 13:12:05 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 19:12:05 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <5cfd33e7.1c69fb81.fee10.7534@mx.google.com> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> <5cfd13b0.1c69fb81.8e3df.adb3@mx.google.com> <5cfd33e7.1c69fb81.fee10.7534@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Funny that you should have been told you were too young at 28 Pat - by the time I got the job I was told by a Sound Manager, who shall remain nameless because I can?t recall which one it was, that if you hadn?t made SS by the time you were 28, or 30 at a stretch, then you probably never would - I was 28 at the time, so I counted my blessings! Mike G > On 9 Jun 2019, at 17:29, patheigham wrote: > > Interesting story, Geoff, > I did hear, after I had left, that the fellow concerned with me, > was Grams on a live show, involving two pre-recorded music > off tape, and he managed to cue the second one first! > Delay while spooling back to the correct one. Pity it wasn?t Stewart Morris! > Sadly he was given an SS job , but I never saw his name on credits. > There?s no replacement for ?time on the job? for learning the ?ins of the situation? > John-John always had a feeling for encouraging talent, and I was grateful to him for pushing me into Grams as this was a way to learn the working of the Sound Control Rooms, later to become Sound Supervisor. > I was granted an SS board, and after - they said that they couldn?t fault me on technicality, but at 27/28 thought that I would be too young to handle subordinate staff. > Although disappointed, I had to admit that they were totally right. > Burt they were wrong on the Direct Entry Front! > > Regards > Pat > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Geoff Fletcher > Sent: 09 June 2019 16:25 > To: patheigham > Cc: Mike Giles; Tech Ops > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. > > Yes - it annoyed me too Pat. Stuck on the roof of Grade and these guys came in and jumped over us all. > We had a training session at the TV Theatre with a bunch of them. One was annoyingly good at tracking the mole crane. He seemed to have a natural gift for it and was very dismissive and arrogant in his manner with my crew mate who was Instructing him, and said crew mate was becoming more and more annoyed. At tea break he gave a succinct opinion of the direct entry guy and then went off somewhere. When we all returned to the fray he was much happier. Off we went on a production exercise and the cocky DI mole tracker slammed the raised arm into the balcony front when tracking back smartly and received a dire bollocking from the senior cameraman on the front. He was dismissed in disgrace to cable bashing. He had missed his tracking mark on the ladder - mainly because his instructor had nipped out during tea break and moved it back a foot! Names withheld to protect the guilty! > G > On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 15:12, patheigham wrote: > One thing that got my back up, and disappointed me was the introduction of graduate entries. > I was assigned to train a chap who had been to university and joined the BBC as a graduate. > Over coffee in the tea bar I asked him what he expected. > ?Oh, Sound Supervisor, of course? This after but two years. > This idea, in my view was a fearfully wrong one by management. > Can?t remember if I mentioned this to H.T.O.Tel. S at my last ?goodbye?. Maybe I should have, but would anyone have paid attention? > I was cross with that ? after spending six years or so, learning the business from the ground up, I would be overtaken in the promotion stakes. > I deliberately did not tell him a few of my favourite tricks. > When I left, I was concerned that maybe colleagues might have thought I had resigned in a fit of pique over that. > No ? I took myself out of that race to go into the Film Industry ? which provided (thanks to BBC training) an excellent later career. > Anyway, at 76, I can look back on a BBC career which was hugely enjoyable, fun, and made friends with whom I am still in contact, > 50 something years later. > TVC may well have been considered a ?factory?, but a little different from oily-fingered workers at lathes and machines. > We didn?t have to clock in and out ? it was left to us. > However, the overall institution was not a lot different? > > Pat > > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Sun Jun 9 13:17:17 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 19:17:17 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> <5cfd13b0.1c69fb81.8e3df.adb3@mx.google.com> <5cfd33e7.1c69fb81.fee10.7534@mx.google.com> Message-ID: All good stuff at a time of rapid expansion, not so good if you joined three years later B On Sun, 9 Jun 2019, 19:12 Mike Giles via Tech1, wrote: > Funny that you should have been told you were too young at 28 Pat - by the > time I got the job I was told by a Sound Manager, who shall remain nameless > because I can?t recall which one it was, that if you hadn?t made SS by the > time you were 28, or 30 at a stretch, then you probably never would - I was > 28 at the time, so I counted my blessings! > > Mike G > > On 9 Jun 2019, at 17:29, patheigham wrote: > > Interesting story, Geoff, > > I did hear, after I had left, that the fellow concerned with me, > > was Grams on a live show, involving two pre-recorded music > > off tape, and he managed to cue the second one first! > > Delay while spooling back to the correct one. Pity it wasn?t Stewart > Morris! > > Sadly he was given an SS job , but I never saw his name on credits. > > There?s no replacement for ?time on the job? for learning the ?ins of the > situation? > > John-John always had a feeling for encouraging talent, and I was grateful > to him for pushing me into Grams as this was a way to learn the working of > the Sound Control Rooms, later to become Sound Supervisor. > > I was granted an SS board, and after - they said that they couldn?t fault > me on technicality, but at 27/28 thought that I would be too young to > handle subordinate staff. > > Although disappointed, I had to admit that they were totally right. > > Burt they were wrong on the Direct Entry Front! > > > > Regards > > Pat > > > > Sent from Mail for > Windows 10 > > > > *From: *Geoff Fletcher > *Sent: *09 June 2019 16:25 > *To: *patheigham > *Cc: *Mike Giles ; Tech Ops > *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. > > > > Yes - it annoyed me too Pat. Stuck on the roof of Grade and these guys > came in and jumped over us all. > > We had a training session at the TV Theatre with a bunch of them. One was > annoyingly good at tracking the mole crane. He seemed to have a natural > gift for it and was very dismissive and arrogant in his manner with my > crew mate who was Instructing him, and said crew mate was becoming more and > more annoyed. At tea break he gave a succinct opinion of the direct entry > guy and then went off somewhere. When we all returned to the fray he was > much happier. Off we went on a production exercise and the cocky DI mole > tracker slammed the raised arm into the balcony front when tracking back > smartly and received a dire bollocking from the senior cameraman on the > front. He was dismissed in disgrace to cable bashing. He had missed his > tracking mark on the ladder - mainly because his instructor had nipped out > during tea break and moved it back a foot! Names withheld to protect the > guilty! > > G > > On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 15:12, patheigham wrote: > > One thing that got my back up, and disappointed me was the introduction of > graduate entries. > > I was assigned to train a chap who had been to university and joined the > BBC as a graduate. > > Over coffee in the tea bar I asked him what he expected. > > ?Oh, Sound Supervisor, of course? This after but two years. > > This idea, in my view was a fearfully wrong one by management. > > Can?t remember if I mentioned this to H.T.O.Tel. S at my last ?goodbye?. > Maybe I should have, but would anyone have paid attention? > > I was cross with that ? after spending six years or so, learning the > business from the ground up, I would be overtaken in the promotion stakes. > > I deliberately did not tell him a few of my favourite tricks. > > When I left, I was concerned that maybe colleagues might have thought I > had resigned in a fit of pique over that. > > No ? I took myself out of that race to go into the Film Industry ? which > provided (thanks to BBC training) an excellent later career. > > Anyway, at 76, I can look back on a BBC career which was hugely enjoyable, > fun, and made friends with whom I am still in contact, > > 50 something years later. > > TVC may well have been considered a ?factory?, but a little different from > oily-fingered workers at lathes and machines. > > We didn?t have to clock in and out ? it was left to us. > > However, the overall institution was not a lot different? > > > > Pat > > > > > > > > > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_-2221285274290979460_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Sun Jun 9 13:49:34 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 19:49:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops.-Bill Bayliff In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> Message-ID: When I joined he was reputedly the inventor of the famous Decca 'ffss' pick-up cartridge for LPs. Cheers, Dave From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Sun Jun 9 14:11:51 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 20:11:51 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net><5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com><9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com><5cfd13b0.1c69fb81.8e3df.adb3@mx.google.com><5cfd33e7.1c69fb81.fee10.7534@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <9A8D113EE93442B192D8058987C79920@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> I remember the ?get there by age 30 or forget it? pronouncement as having been widely spread amongst the troops to the indignation of many. Went nicely with the indignation that accompanied the arrival of Direct Entry chaps. One was attached to me for his studio floor training and, thoroughly likeable though he was, he hadn?t a clue when he started and inevitably knew not a great deal when he finished. Water under the.......! Dave Newbitt. From: Mike Giles via Tech1 Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2019 7:12 PM To: patheigham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. Funny that you should have been told you were too young at 28 Pat - by the time I got the job I was told by a Sound Manager, who shall remain nameless because I can?t recall which one it was, that if you hadn?t made SS by the time you were 28, or 30 at a stretch, then you probably never would - I was 28 at the time, so I counted my blessings! Mike G On 9 Jun 2019, at 17:29, patheigham wrote: Interesting story, Geoff, I did hear, after I had left, that the fellow concerned with me, was Grams on a live show, involving two pre-recorded music off tape, and he managed to cue the second one first! Delay while spooling back to the correct one. Pity it wasn?t Stewart Morris! Sadly he was given an SS job , but I never saw his name on credits. There?s no replacement for ?time on the job? for learning the ?ins of the situation? John-John always had a feeling for encouraging talent, and I was grateful to him for pushing me into Grams as this was a way to learn the working of the Sound Control Rooms, later to become Sound Supervisor. I was granted an SS board, and after - they said that they couldn?t fault me on technicality, but at 27/28 thought that I would be too young to handle subordinate staff. Although disappointed, I had to admit that they were totally right. Burt they were wrong on the Direct Entry Front! Regards Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Geoff Fletcher Sent: 09 June 2019 16:25 To: patheigham Cc: Mike Giles; Tech Ops Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. Yes - it annoyed me too Pat. Stuck on the roof of Grade and these guys came in and jumped over us all. We had a training session at the TV Theatre with a bunch of them. One was annoyingly good at tracking the mole crane. He seemed to have a natural gift for it and was very dismissive and arrogant in his manner with my crew mate who was Instructing him, and said crew mate was becoming more and more annoyed. At tea break he gave a succinct opinion of the direct entry guy and then went off somewhere. When we all returned to the fray he was much happier. Off we went on a production exercise and the cocky DI mole tracker slammed the raised arm into the balcony front when tracking back smartly and received a dire bollocking from the senior cameraman on the front. He was dismissed in disgrace to cable bashing. He had missed his tracking mark on the ladder - mainly because his instructor had nipped out during tea break and moved it back a foot! Names withheld to protect the guilty! G On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 15:12, patheigham wrote: One thing that got my back up, and disappointed me was the introduction of graduate entries. I was assigned to train a chap who had been to university and joined the BBC as a graduate. Over coffee in the tea bar I asked him what he expected. ?Oh, Sound Supervisor, of course? This after but two years. This idea, in my view was a fearfully wrong one by management. Can?t remember if I mentioned this to H.T.O.Tel. S at my last ?goodbye?. Maybe I should have, but would anyone have paid attention? I was cross with that ? after spending six years or so, learning the business from the ground up, I would be overtaken in the promotion stakes. I deliberately did not tell him a few of my favourite tricks. When I left, I was concerned that maybe colleagues might have thought I had resigned in a fit of pique over that. No ? I took myself out of that race to go into the Film Industry ? which provided (thanks to BBC training) an excellent later career. Anyway, at 76, I can look back on a BBC career which was hugely enjoyable, fun, and made friends with whom I am still in contact, 50 something years later. TVC may well have been considered a ?factory?, but a little different from oily-fingered workers at lathes and machines. We didn?t have to clock in and out ? it was left to us. However, the overall institution was not a lot different? Pat Virus-free. www.avast.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Sun Jun 9 14:14:23 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 19:14:23 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops.-Bill Bayliff In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> , Message-ID: That?s correct Dave. And he told me I looked too young to be a Sound Supervisor! The real reason, as told to me by another managerial person was that he, and not only he, was fiercely envious of the five star ratings Guild Records was getting in the Hi-fi mags for our recordings in St Paul?s and the QEH, amongst others. So I left, and the most memorable bits of my leaving interview were: ?make sure you return your BBC briefcase, stopwatch and HD414 headphones, or they will be stopped from your last pay slip?, and more outrageously, ?Are you sure you really do want to leave? There?s nothing outside the BBC?. As it happens, there was. That was 1980. I may not look as young as Pat, but I have got a full week?s work this week, and it?s through a crewing agency, so my daily rate has been haggled UP, just like in the old days! Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 9 Jun 2019, at 19:49, dave.mdv via Tech1 > wrote: When I joined he was reputedly the inventor of the famous Decca 'ffss' pick-up cartridge for LPs. Cheers, Dave -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Sun Jun 9 16:43:37 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 22:43:37 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops.-Bill Bayliff In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> Message-ID: <72b69782-ff59-fc31-de30-5f8c4ec7dbb5@btinternet.com> All credit to you Nick! I always think, managers are born not made! We had the misfortune to have the worst set of managers ever at TVC! OBs was so much better from the sound perspective (cameras weren't so lucky!). There was one sound manager who was occasionally seen on Reading station who could actually produce the goods but who suffered from anxiety and had to retire from front-line mixing. He became an advisor to Philips I hear, (hence the introduction of 'Ambiophony' to TCs 1,3 and 4. AFAIK, it was never used as designed as the set designer in TC1 put the orchestra in the wrong place to benefit from it, but I often used it for the audience warm-up music and the audience leave music for sit-coms ('Bye-bye Blues' by Bert Kaempfert!) Cheers, Dave From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Sun Jun 9 16:46:36 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 22:46:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <9A8D113EE93442B192D8058987C79920@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> <5cfd13b0.1c69fb81.8e3df.adb3@mx.google.com> <5cfd33e7.1c69fb81.fee10.7534@mx.google.com> <9A8D113EE93442B192D8058987C79920@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <7bdc2946-d238-49ec-845d-dab737475286@btinternet.com> However, he survived, even though playing the wrong backing track on TOTP because production changed the running order and didn't tell sound! Cheers, Dave From alex.thomas1 at talktalk.net Sun Jun 9 17:55:12 2019 From: alex.thomas1 at talktalk.net (Alex Thomas) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 23:55:12 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of Old OBs Message-ID: <000c01d51f16$65f4eef0$31deccd0$@talktalk.net> The recent D Day programmes reminded me of my first visit to Arromanches in 1974 for the 30th anniversary of the original invasion. It was in the very early days of Breakfast TV and, to save money, the feed for the Autocue that Frank Bough and Selena Scott were going to use was fed from Lime Grove via Paris to the camera heads on the prom at Arromanches. The radio check picture was to be picked up from Rowridge via a sensitive aerial and receiver that comms had installed on the cliff top above Arromanches. The Autocue failed to work at all and the radio check picture was very ropey. The signal strength was affected by the state of the tide. Selena did not want to even attempt to go on air but Frank, a real pro, encouraged her to busk it and the show went ahead. My job was to set up the beach so that it resembled the scene as it was in 1944. At 6 00 (French time) there were lots of people and vehicles milling about but we set up a camera on the beach and I approached a CRS gendarme. In halting French explained my need for a deserted beach. There was a Gallic shrug and he set to work with 3 other CRS officers. Within 5 minutes the beach was empty and we had our opening shot. The CRS are a very strong willed section of the French military and carry live ammo. Nobody argues with them. Another floor manager was on the cliff top with his weather forecaster who was very excitable and very close to the edge of a 60 foot drop. The riggers produced a length of rope and tied it round the ankle of our forecaster with the other end fastened to a stake in the ground. He delivered his forecast every half hour and the rope stayed out of shot. O B's were very often "a wing and a prayer" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Sun Jun 9 23:48:27 2019 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 05:48:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Radio 4 Message-ID: <78C4094B-E6AD-4CE2-A16C-B56B2235E09F@howell61.f9.co.uk> Yes ,this is a Radio Trail (eat your heart out Tony Barnfield!). This afternoon (Monday) The Digital Human is going analogue with ?sticky tape and razorblades? (their words), could be worth a listen: R4 @ 16:30 Hrs. John H. From Waresound at msn.com Mon Jun 10 04:49:32 2019 From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 09:49:32 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops.-Bill Bayliff In-Reply-To: <72b69782-ff59-fc31-de30-5f8c4ec7dbb5@btinternet.com> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> , <72b69782-ff59-fc31-de30-5f8c4ec7dbb5@btinternet.com> Message-ID: I used to send the audience scurrying away to a syncopated Switched-on Classics version of the first mvmt of Mozart Sy no 40. The most irritatingly catchy tune on the planet! It lived permanently on the end of my fake applause tape. Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 9 Jun 2019, at 22:43, dave.mdv > wrote: All credit to you Nick! I always think, managers are born not made! We had the misfortune to have the worst set of managers ever at TVC! OBs was so much better from the sound perspective (cameras weren't so lucky!). There was one sound manager who was occasionally seen on Reading station who could actually produce the goods but who suffered from anxiety and had to retire from front-line mixing. He became an advisor to Philips I hear, (hence the introduction of 'Ambiophony' to TCs 1,3 and 4. AFAIK, it was never used as designed as the set designer in TC1 put the orchestra in the wrong place to benefit from it, but I often used it for the audience warm-up music and the audience leave music for sit-coms ('Bye-bye Blues' by Bert Kaempfert!) Cheers, Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Mon Jun 10 09:09:16 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 15:09:16 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <7bdc2946-d238-49ec-845d-dab737475286@btinternet.com> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> <5cfd13b0.1c69fb81.8e3df.adb3@mx.google.com> <5cfd33e7.1c69fb81.fee10.7534@mx.google.com> <9A8D113EE93442B192D8058987C79920@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <7bdc2946-d238-49ec-845d-dab737475286@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <5cfe648d.1c69fb81.d63ad.512b@mx.google.com> Not really his fault, then! Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: dave.mdv via Tech1 Sent: 09 June 2019 22:46 To: David Newbitt; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. However, he survived, even though playing the wrong backing track on TOTP because production changed the running order and didn't tell sound! Cheers, Dave --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Mon Jun 10 09:24:19 2019 From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 15:24:19 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <5cfe648d.1c69fb81.d63ad.512b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <0uqu1ikm031b5fj5apkmusia.1560176659578@pgtmedia.co.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Mon Jun 10 09:27:49 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 15:27:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <9968EA5A-CA53-4EF1-9992-B1ECBDDD0E61@mac.com> , <72b69782-ff59-fc31-de30-5f8c4ec7dbb5@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <5cfe68e5.1c69fb81.c8ab6.f644@mx.google.com> OK, so there were some of us who didn?t follow instructions to the letter! On ?World of Wooster? I junked the welcome play-in music selected by the PA, and played instead recordings from 78?s of Carroll Gibbons and the Savoy Orchestra, as I felt that was more appropriate to the setting of the series. Presentation is important. I kicked against the effects selected by the programme PA?s, and I guess this was engendered by the early Dr.Who?s, where I assembled all the sound FX, incorporating those which came from Brian Hodgson at Radiophonics. Thus, building on the work that the Grams Ops did in those days, taking on a more creative role, rather than just playing what they were told, I campaigned for a half-grade upgrade to the salary scale (probably from C- to C) I had left before this was implemented, but at least it did get through! Best regards Pat ( Nick, I?m sure you look younger than me! ? attached is a shot but 12 years ago!) Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Nick Ware via Tech1 Sent: 10 June 2019 10:49 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops.-Bill Bayliff I used to send the audience scurrying away to a syncopated Switched-on Classics version of the first mvmt of Mozart Sy no 40. The most irritatingly catchy tune on the planet! It lived permanently on the end of my fake applause tape. Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 9 Jun 2019, at 22:43, dave.mdv wrote: All credit to you Nick! I always think, managers are born not made! We had the misfortune to have the worst set of managers ever at TVC! OBs was so much better from the sound perspective (cameras weren't so lucky!). There was one sound manager who was occasionally seen on Reading station who could actually produce the goods but who suffered from anxiety and had to retire from front-line mixing. He became an advisor to Philips I hear, (hence the introduction of 'Ambiophony' to TCs 1,3 and 4. AFAIK, it was never used as designed as the set designer in TC1 put the orchestra in the wrong place to benefit from it, but I often used it for the audience warm-up music and the audience leave music for sit-coms ('Bye-bye Blues' by Bert Kaempfert!) Cheers, Dave --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 788CEB61F1E54093BB0EC8592C186C3D.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 11757 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Mon Jun 10 09:34:54 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 15:34:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <0uqu1ikm031b5fj5apkmusia.1560176659578@pgtmedia.co.uk> References: <5cfe648d.1c69fb81.d63ad.512b@mx.google.com> <0uqu1ikm031b5fj5apkmusia.1560176659578@pgtmedia.co.uk> Message-ID: <5cfe6a8e.1c69fb81.8b874.d61a@mx.google.com> There?s a good example in Richard Cawston?s ?This is the BBC? made in 1959, which depicts a running order change to the News. I love this film, as it shows the BBC which I wanted to work for. I have two copies ? one kindly provided by Bernie, the other from the AP Historical Society. If it?s OK with Bernie, I could offer a DVD to anyone? Best Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Paul Thackray Sent: 10 June 2019 15:24 To: patheigham; dave.mdv; David Newbitt; tech1_tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. Was telepathy not part of the job description back then?? Paul Thackray From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Sent: 10 June 2019 15:10 To: dave.mdv at btinternet.com; dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Reply to: pat.heigham at amps.net Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. Not really his fault, then! Pat ? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ? From: dave.mdv via Tech1 Sent: 09 June 2019 22:46 To: David Newbitt; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. ? However, he survived, even though playing the wrong backing track on TOTP because production changed the running order and didn't tell sound! Cheers, Dave ? ? Virus-free. www.avast.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From relong at btinternet.com Mon Jun 10 11:36:30 2019 From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 17:36:30 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> Message-ID: That was Mavis Mike She was formidable but eventually we wore her down and she retired, possibly with a breakdown?. Roger > On 8 Jun 2019, at 21:55, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > > We had an equally fearsome, though rather younger lady in Bristol who guarded Aunty?s purse with the same degree of vigour as Pat Jenner, who was still ruling the expenses roost when I moved up to TVC. I quite forget the Bristol dragon?s name, but had many tussles with her over mileage claims and the number of meals that we may or may not have been entitled to. We usually had an SM or two on attachment from BH and she was particularly at odds with them, but she had her Damascus Road moment when she had to go on a three month course in London. The very BH SM?s who she was so at pains to penalise had the good sense to offer her accommodation at a very reasonable rate, using a room that was normally occupied by one of the SM?s who was currently in Bristol on attachment. But, of course, she was claiming Sched ?A? and probably other things beside and came back to Bristol with an absolute gleam in her eye and far greater tolerance of the perfectly legitimate expenses claims that she would previously have pared to the bone. We never did establish whether the gleam was inspired by the handsome profit she had made, or her encounter with an equally handsome, very large and very naked Nigerian gent, who was standing full frontal in the bath when she burst in to the bathroom one morning. As an unmarried lady, we gathered that this was a totally new experience for her! But something had pierced her iron shell. > > Mike G > > From mibridge at mac.com Mon Jun 10 13:48:39 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 19:48:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> Are we talking about the same lady which Cliff White named as Mac Hipwood? Mike G > On 10 Jun 2019, at 17:36, Roger E Long via Tech1 wrote: > > That was Mavis Mike > She was formidable but eventually we wore her down and she retired, possibly with a breakdown?. > Roger > >> On 8 Jun 2019, at 21:55, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >> >> We had an equally fearsome, though rather younger lady in Bristol who guarded Aunty?s purse with the same degree of vigour as Pat Jenner, who was still ruling the expenses roost when I moved up to TVC. I quite forget the Bristol dragon?s name, but had many tussles with her over mileage claims and the number of meals that we may or may not have been entitled to. We usually had an SM or two on attachment from BH and she was particularly at odds with them, but she had her Damascus Road moment when she had to go on a three month course in London. The very BH SM?s who she was so at pains to penalise had the good sense to offer her accommodation at a very reasonable rate, using a room that was normally occupied by one of the SM?s who was currently in Bristol on attachment. But, of course, she was claiming Sched ?A? and probably other things beside and came back to Bristol with an absolute gleam in her eye and far greater tolerance of the perfectly legitimate expenses claims that she would previously have pared to the bone. We never did establish whether the gleam was inspired by the handsome profit she had made, or her encounter with an equally handsome, very large and very naked Nigerian gent, who was standing full frontal in the bath when she burst in to the bathroom one morning. As an unmarried lady, we gathered that this was a totally new experience for her! But something had pierced her iron shell. >> >> Mike G >> >> > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From alan_machin at hotmail.com Tue Jun 11 05:40:48 2019 From: alan_machin at hotmail.com (alan machin) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 10:40:48 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> , <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> Message-ID: Was it not Des Browning when he became Head of Sound who issued the 'Sound Supervisor by 30 or forget it' edict? At the time sound mixing in Presentation studios was carried out by Grade C SA1s, but when, due to union pressure, four(?) Sound Supervisor posts were created and boarded, somewhere near the beginning of 1973 I think, I was one of the lucky ones promoted. To their credit I cannot recall any personal resentment from any of the SA1s who missed out and had every reason to feel unfairly overlooked, but I wasn't a graduate entry having served five years on the floor and four years as a Gram Op. I would exclude Gordon Mackie from recent negative comments on Sound Managers. He had been there, done that and got the T-shirt, or rather golf kit and he was the best mentor I had on my Supervisor training as he let me do his shows. As Chairman of the BBC Club and the Golf section he spent most of the time on the phone, but kept a strict eye on me and the crew, with the occasional monosyllabic grunt to keep us on the right course! All the best, Alan. ________________________________ From: Tech1 on behalf of Mike Giles via Tech1 Sent: 10 June 2019 19:48 To: Roger E Long; Tech Ops Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. Are we talking about the same lady which Cliff White named as Mac Hipwood? Mike G > On 10 Jun 2019, at 17:36, Roger E Long via Tech1 wrote: > > That was Mavis Mike > She was formidable but eventually we wore her down and she retired, possibly with a breakdown?. > Roger > >> On 8 Jun 2019, at 21:55, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >> >> We had an equally fearsome, though rather younger lady in Bristol who guarded Aunty?s purse with the same degree of vigour as Pat Jenner, who was still ruling the expenses roost when I moved up to TVC. I quite forget the Bristol dragon?s name, but had many tussles with her over mileage claims and the number of meals that we may or may not have been entitled to. We usually had an SM or two on attachment from BH and she was particularly at odds with them, but she had her Damascus Road moment when she had to go on a three month course in London. The very BH SM?s who she was so at pains to penalise had the good sense to offer her accommodation at a very reasonable rate, using a room that was normally occupied by one of the SM?s who was currently in Bristol on attachment. But, of course, she was claiming Sched ?A? and probably other things beside and came back to Bristol with an absolute gleam in her eye and far greater tolerance of the perfectly legitimate expenses claims that she would previously have pared to the bone. We never did establish whether the gleam was inspired by the handsome profit she had made, or her encounter with an equally handsome, very large and very naked Nigerian gent, who was standing full frontal in the bath when she burst in to the bathroom one morning. As an unmarried lady, we gathered that this was a totally new experience for her! But something had pierced her iron shell. >> >> Mike G >> >> > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Tue Jun 11 06:47:20 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 12:47:20 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> Message-ID: <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> Pres. 'A' was in fact crewed by SA2s and did the Weather Forecast, trails, Points of View, in-vision announcers, etc. One day I turned up for the late shift to be told by the chaps I was taking over from -' you've got Cape Canaveral on fader one, Moscow on fader two, and Richard Dimbleby in the studio, we're off to lunch!'. Pres. 'B' was the realm of SA1s, until they went on leave, when an SA2 stood in for him! Pres.'B' sound set-up was very restricting for the SS as we had very few mics. and the OGWT was very loud! The problem was that there were mic amps between the wall box and the jackfield and you could get nearly zero level from a C28 on a band! Cheers, Dave From mibridge at mac.com Tue Jun 11 07:42:59 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 13:42:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> Message-ID: <1BA38342-1E24-4ABE-B0AE-BF02D0F1174E@mac.com> I would entirely endorse Al?s comments about the complete lack of animosity from those who had been usurped by the likes of myself, and his observations on Gordon Mackie as one of the more worthy managers, who really could offer advice in a totally acceptable manner, based on his personal experience as a leading exponent of the art. And it was the artistic input, not the technical difficulty, which warranted the grade, according to the guys from Grading Department - I think that?s what they were called - I can?t imagine that such a section exists within the Beeb nowadays. Mike G > On 11 Jun 2019, at 11:40, alan machin via Tech1 wrote: > > Was it not Des Browning when he became Head of Sound who issued the 'Sound Supervisor by 30 or forget it' edict? > > At the time sound mixing in Presentation studios was carried out by Grade C SA1s, but when, due to union pressure, four(?) Sound Supervisor posts were created and boarded, somewhere near the beginning of 1973 I think, I was one of the lucky ones promoted. To their credit I cannot recall any personal resentment from any of the SA1s who missed out and had every reason to feel unfairly overlooked, but I wasn't a graduate entry having served five years on the floor and four years as a Gram Op. > > I would exclude Gordon Mackie from recent negative comments on Sound Managers. He had been there, done that and got the T-shirt, or rather golf kit and he was the best mentor I had on my Supervisor training as he let me do his shows. As Chairman of the BBC Club and the Golf section he spent most of the time on the phone, but kept a strict eye on me and the crew, with the occasional monosyllabic grunt to keep us on the right course! > > All the best, > Alan. > > > From: Tech1 on behalf of Mike Giles via Tech1 > Sent: 10 June 2019 19:48 > To: Roger E Long; Tech Ops > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. > > Are we talking about the same lady which Cliff White named as Mac Hipwood? > > Mike G > > > On 10 Jun 2019, at 17:36, Roger E Long via Tech1 wrote: > > > > That was Mavis Mike > > She was formidable but eventually we wore her down and she retired, possibly with a breakdown?. > > Roger > > > >> On 8 Jun 2019, at 21:55, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > >> > >> We had an equally fearsome, though rather younger lady in Bristol who guarded Aunty?s purse with the same degree of vigour as Pat Jenner, who was still ruling the expenses roost when I moved up to TVC. I quite forget the Bristol dragon?s name, but had many tussles with her over mileage claims and the number of meals that we may or may not have been entitled to. We usually had an SM or two on attachment from BH and she was particularly at odds with them, but she had her Damascus Road moment when she had to go on a three month course in London. The very BH SM?s who she was so at pains to penalise had the good sense to offer her accommodation at a very reasonable rate, using a room that was normally occupied by one of the SM?s who was currently in Bristol on attachment. But, of course, she was claiming Sched ?A? and probably other things beside and came back to Bristol with an absolute gleam in her eye and far greater tolerance of the perfectly legitimate expenses claims that she would previously have pared to the bone. We never did establish whether the gleam was inspired by the handsome profit she had made, or her encounter with an equally handsome, very large and very naked Nigerian gent, who was standing full frontal in the bath when she burst in to the bathroom one morning. As an unmarried lady, we gathered that this was a totally new experience for her! But something had pierced her iron shell. > >> > >> Mike G > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Tue Jun 11 08:57:38 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 14:57:38 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net><5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com><38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> Message-ID: As you say Dave we SA2s all did our Pres stints - quite enlightening at times. My memories include the entertaining contributions from the Continuity Suite (John Witty, John ??, Dick Graham et al) - Dick Graham was a brilliant improviser/impressionist who would on occasion entertain us in the long boring hours. He did a superlative Wynford Vaughan Thomas using cod Welsh and also a brilliant cod Russian. I remember Keith Warren playing a tape of Dvorak's Hungarian Dances and dipping sound wildly at intervals to permit Dick's party piece Russian interjections. Pat Hubbard, Janet Hoenig and Granville Jenkins were amongst the chief captains during my spell which included the occasion of the (at the time cutting edge) multi nation hook-up, broadcast as 'Our World'. I still have a 1/4" of the theme music. Pres B's output of course included Joan Bakewell etc. with 'Late Night Line Up' and this would normally attract an SS with the SA1 in attendance or, depending on the circumstances, one of the SA2s from across the corridor. I filled that function on a number of occasions, once when Marian Montgomery was guesting together with husband Laurie Holloway and his trio. She sang 'Dindi' (Jin-jee in English pronunciation) by Antonio Carlos Jobim and George Prince allowed me to mic and mix it. George was as nice a guy as you would ever meet and to put his reputation on the line by handing the reins to a lowly SA2 struck me as something few others would have done. Still have the tape somewhere complete with one goodish over-mod on the vocal mic. Back in the Pres A Control room there was at the time one engineer who was often on the losing end of debate and argument. His star moment which reduced the gathered company to falling about was to blurt out in frustration "none of you are qualified to understand my point of view"! And then of course the late night weather. Bert Ford could usually be persuaded to pre-record this to permit early departure, Graham Parker never. Remember the five minute COI fims - gosh it was really pretty racey stuff in those days! Best to all, Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1 Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:47 PM To: alan machin ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. Pres. 'A' was in fact crewed by SA2s and did the Weather Forecast, trails, Points of View, in-vision announcers, etc. One day I turned up for the late shift to be told by the chaps I was taking over from -' you've got Cape Canaveral on fader one, Moscow on fader two, and Richard Dimbleby in the studio, we're off to lunch!'. Pres. 'B' was the realm of SA1s, until they went on leave, when an SA2 stood in for him! Pres.'B' sound set-up was very restricting for the SS as we had very few mics. and the OGWT was very loud! The problem was that there were mic amps between the wall box and the jackfield and you could get nearly zero level from a C28 on a band! Cheers, Dave -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From phider at gmx.com Tue Jun 11 05:13:13 2019 From: phider at gmx.com (phider) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 11:13:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <7bdc2946-d238-49ec-845d-dab737475286@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <0MQzUc-1h6UiV20AI-00ULvV@mail.gmx.com> The Direct Entry graduates didn't fare any better on cameras. The one I remember was cable bashing on Dixon of Dock Green. He'd left his coiled figure of eight in the gap between the sets where actors made their entance from makeup. Poor old Jack Warner, who was already struggling with mobility, had to climb over said coil only to be told by said Direct Entry "Get off that f****** cable". He then went to sound where a Gram-op had cued up a disc for the opening music of an LE show. The DE thought the turntable was a good place to rest his elbow and the stylus did a wonderful slide across the disc.He left the BBC shortly after this.Regards to allPeter HiderSent from Samsung Mobile on O2 -------- Original message --------From: "dave.mdv via Tech1" Date: 09/06/2019 22:46 (GMT+00:00) To: David Newbitt , tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. However, he survived, even though playing the wrong backing track on TOTP because production changed the running order and didn't tell sound! Cheers, Dave-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rogerbunce at btinternet.com Tue Jun 11 11:17:46 2019 From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 16:17:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] Radiophonic Workshop References: <1097087599.2430056.1560269866454.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1097087599.2430056.1560269866454@mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, This may be of interest to those who like Ye Olde BBCe things, especially to any fans of Doctor Who. It's a BBC Archives film clip from 1965, showing the Radiophonic Workshop, with Delia Derbyshire giving a guided tour. I don't think I'd ever seen or heard her before, despite her name being something of a legend in Doctor Who circles. (Many thanks to David Brunt for explaining how to share it!) luv, Rog. 1965: Tomorrow's World: Radiophonic Workshop | | | | 1965: Tomorrow's World: Radiophonic Workshop #OnThisDay 1965: Delia Derbyshire gave Tomorrow's World a sample of the techniques used in the BBC's Radiophonic... | | | -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Jun 11 12:35:51 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:35:51 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Radiophonic Workshop In-Reply-To: <1097087599.2430056.1560269866454@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1097087599.2430056.1560269866454.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1097087599.2430056.1560269866454@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5cffe677.1c69fb81.5efad.675c@mx.google.com> Although I never met Delia, I used to go to Maida Vale fairly frequently as a Grams Op for Dr. Who ? meeting up with Brian Hodgson to collect tapes of sounds for whatever story was in production. Here is an extract from her Wikipedia entry: One of her first works, and the most widely known, was her 1963 electronic realization of a score by Ron Grainer for the theme tune of the Doctor Who series, one of the first television themes to be created and produced by entirely electronic means. When Grainer first heard it, he was so amazed by her rendering of his theme that he asked "Did I really write this?" to which Derbyshire replied "Most of it". Grainer attempted to get her a co-composer credit, but the attempt was prevented by the BBC bureaucracy, which then preferred to keep the members of the workshop anonymous Derbyshire's later life was chaotic due to chronic alcoholism; she died of renal failure, aged 64, in July 2001. Sad Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 Sent: 11 June 2019 17:22 To: dave.mdv via Tech1 Subject: [Tech1] Radiophonic Workshop Hi All, This may be of interest to those who like Ye Olde BBCe things, especially to any fans of Doctor Who. It's a BBC Archives film clip from 1965, showing the Radiophonic Workshop, with Delia Derbyshire giving a guided tour. I don't think I'd ever seen or heard her before, despite her name being something of a legend in Doctor Who circles. (Many thanks to David Brunt for explaining how to share it!) luv, Rog. 1965: Tomorrow's World: Radiophonic Workshop --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Jun 11 14:13:26 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:13:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <0MQzUc-1h6UiV20AI-00ULvV@mail.gmx.com> References: <7bdc2946-d238-49ec-845d-dab737475286@btinternet.com> <0MQzUc-1h6UiV20AI-00ULvV@mail.gmx.com> Message-ID: <5cfffd57.1c69fb81.1c7c9.c499@mx.google.com> Just proves my point that it was a ?bad? decision on the part of management/recruitment to try and save 4 or 5 years of paying people to be properly trained! Maybe it could be that it might have been thought that I dumped on the Corp by leaving after 8 years, but I wanted to work in Films, so I did! The original scenario was that a friend of my parents in their pub circle, ran a dubbing service in Soho (I went to have a look). He said that he could give me a job, but his advice would be to try for the BBC, as: ?They will teach you in two years, what it will take ten years to pick up? Was he ever right! (In spite of the Lisle Street ladies!) Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: phider via Tech1 Sent: 11 June 2019 15:00 To: dave.mdv; David Newbitt; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. The Direct Entry graduates didn't fare any better on cameras. The one I remember was cable bashing on Dixon of Dock Green. He'd left his coiled figure of eight in the gap between the sets where actors made their entance from makeup. Poor old Jack Warner, who was already struggling with mobility, had to climb over said coil only to be told by said Direct Entry "Get off that f****** cable". He then went to sound where a Gram-op had cued up a disc for the opening music of an LE show. The DE thought the turntable was a good place to rest his elbow and the stylus did a wonderful slide across the disc. He left the BBC shortly after this. Regards to all Peter Hider Sent from Samsung Mobile on O2 -------- Original message -------- From: "dave.mdv via Tech1" Date: 09/06/2019 22:46 (GMT+00:00) To: David Newbitt , tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. However, he survived, even though playing the wrong backing track on TOTP because production changed the running order and didn't tell sound! Cheers, Dave -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Tue Jun 11 15:29:08 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:29:08 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of Pres. A & B In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <7cc9ce4d-eac9-cc29-0ac5-f316ceb0de20@btinternet.com> Dick Graham was brilliant, as you rightly say Dave! Another voice-over man was Richard Bebb (who was married to Gwen Watford). The 'Early Evening Line-Up' started just before 1900 and production wanted a piece of music to cover a slow pan round the studio, from one large caption to another, showing what was to come that evening. I think it was something like 37 seconds long and I spent most of the afternoon with a razor blade and splicing tape, shortening 'Take Five', for example! I was in 'B' on the night that 'Compact' ended and we ended up with most of the cast in the studio and just a handful of assorted mics to cover them. Steep learning curve came into it somewhere! Cheers, Dave From waresound at msn.com Tue Jun 11 15:57:10 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:57:10 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> , <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> Message-ID: I have a recollection that you could over-plug the mic amps in Pres B to cater for OGWT levels. A C28 was very happy if you did that, and of course, we were a long time before phantom power came into being. Nick. Sent from my iPad On 11 Jun 2019, at 12:47, dave.mdv via Tech1 > wrote: Pres. 'A' was in fact crewed by SA2s and did the Weather Forecast, trails, Points of View, in-vision announcers, etc. One day I turned up for the late shift to be told by the chaps I was taking over from -' you've got Cape Canaveral on fader one, Moscow on fader two, and Richard Dimbleby in the studio, we're off to lunch!'. Pres. 'B' was the realm of SA1s, until they went on leave, when an SA2 stood in for him! Pres.'B' sound set-up was very restricting for the SS as we had very few mics. and the OGWT was very loud! The problem was that there were mic amps between the wall box and the jackfield and you could get nearly zero level from a C28 on a band! Cheers, Dave -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Tue Jun 11 16:15:11 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 21:15:11 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> Message-ID: My Pres A high moment was at a time when I had scrounged a vidicon tube from Valve Maintenance, stores, or whatever they were called, and had made a vidicon camera. Very simple, with only about 20 transistors. There had been an article, probably in Elektor magazine (from whom you could buy some key components, and among other things, a vidicon yoke). The only condition on which Valve Maintenance would give you a tube was if you had the yoke, and were going to put it to good use. There was an always-jovial Pres a engineer whose name I can?t remember, but who I?m sure you would all have known, who said ?let?s plug it into the mixer and see if we can sync to it?. He succeeded, and with it looking at a caption, cut it up to TX. I was enormously proud of the fact that my homemade camera had gone live to air! Nick. Sent from my iPad On 11 Jun 2019, at 12:47, dave.mdv via Tech1 > wrote: Pres. 'A' was in fact crewed by SA2s and did the Weather Forecast, trails, Points of View, in-vision announcers, etc. One day I turned up for the late shift to be told by the chaps I was taking over from -' you've got Cape Canaveral on fader one, Moscow on fader two, and Richard Dimbleby in the studio, we're off to lunch!'. Pres. 'B' was the realm of SA1s, until they went on leave, when an SA2 stood in for him! Pres.'B' sound set-up was very restricting for the SS as we had very few mics. and the OGWT was very loud! The problem was that there were mic amps between the wall box and the jackfield and you could get nearly zero level from a C28 on a band! Cheers, Dave -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Wed Jun 12 01:47:48 2019 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 07:47:48 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> Message-ID: <971C7A4C-4A7D-4225-BFC1-8CE76559A101@me.com> I was sent to Evesham on a senior course as part of my preparation for being a sound supervisor. One day we had a guest lecture from Des Browning. At the end of his talk, he asked if anybody had any questions. At that time I had never met him before and only heard of him. I asked him to outline his career progression within the BBC and like most people, he was happy to talk about how he rose through the ranks. Just for future reference, I took a few notes while he was speaking. When my time came for applying for an OB sound supervisor job, Des was on the board, along with Colin White, the OB Head of Sound. Towards the end Des asked "Mr Taylor, don't you think that 29 is a little young to be a sound supervisor?" I pointed out that he became a sound supervisor when he was 27. Colin White chuckled. Alan Taylor On 11 Jun 2019, at 11 Jun . 11:40, alan machin via Tech1 wrote: > Was it not Des Browning when he became Head of Sound who issued the 'Sound Supervisor by 30 or forget it' edict? > > At the time sound mixing in Presentation studios was carried out by Grade C SA1s, but when, due to union pressure, four(?) Sound Supervisor posts were created and boarded, somewhere near the beginning of 1973 I think, I was one of the lucky ones promoted. To their credit I cannot recall any personal resentment from any of the SA1s who missed out and had every reason to feel unfairly overlooked, but I wasn't a graduate entry having served five years on the floor and four years as a Gram Op. > > I would exclude Gordon Mackie from recent negative comments on Sound Managers. He had been there, done that and got the T-shirt, or rather golf kit and he was the best mentor I had on my Supervisor training as he let me do his shows. As Chairman of the BBC Club and the Golf section he spent most of the time on the phone, but kept a strict eye on me and the crew, with the occasional monosyllabic grunt to keep us on the right course! > > All the best, > Alan. > > > From: Tech1 on behalf of Mike Giles via Tech1 > Sent: 10 June 2019 19:48 > To: Roger E Long; Tech Ops > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. > > Are we talking about the same lady which Cliff White named as Mac Hipwood? > > Mike G > > > On 10 Jun 2019, at 17:36, Roger E Long via Tech1 wrote: > > > > That was Mavis Mike > > She was formidable but eventually we wore her down and she retired, possibly with a breakdown?. > > Roger > > > >> On 8 Jun 2019, at 21:55, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > >> > >> We had an equally fearsome, though rather younger lady in Bristol who guarded Aunty?s purse with the same degree of vigour as Pat Jenner, who was still ruling the expenses roost when I moved up to TVC. I quite forget the Bristol dragon?s name, but had many tussles with her over mileage claims and the number of meals that we may or may not have been entitled to. We usually had an SM or two on attachment from BH and she was particularly at odds with them, but she had her Damascus Road moment when she had to go on a three month course in London. The very BH SM?s who she was so at pains to penalise had the good sense to offer her accommodation at a very reasonable rate, using a room that was normally occupied by one of the SM?s who was currently in Bristol on attachment. But, of course, she was claiming Sched ?A? and probably other things beside and came back to Bristol with an absolute gleam in her eye and far greater tolerance of the perfectly legitimate expenses claims that she would previously have pared to the bone. We never did establish whether the gleam was inspired by the handsome profit she had made, or her encounter with an equally handsome, very large and very naked Nigerian gent, who was standing full frontal in the bath when she burst in to the bathroom one morning. As an unmarried lady, we gathered that this was a totally new experience for her! But something had pierced her iron shell. > >> > >> Mike G > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nick at nickway.co.uk Wed Jun 12 04:15:01 2019 From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:15:01 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> , <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Wed Jun 12 04:38:18 2019 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:38:18 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> Message-ID: <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: > > I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind > Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained > that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! > > It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} Chris Woolf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Wed Jun 12 05:32:14 2019 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:32:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. What this meant in reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic ranges. If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without altering the pre-set channel gain control. This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom and the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. Alan Taylor On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: >> I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! >> >> > It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. > > Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. > > It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} > > Chris Woolf > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nick at nickway.co.uk Wed Jun 12 05:37:59 2019 From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:37:59 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <366392763.332177.1560335879580@email.ionos.co.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Wed Jun 12 06:04:23 2019 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 12:04:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <7ffb39fb-a641-9045-0598-fa2bd451171b@chriswoolf.co.uk> A useful piece of history - thank you. That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement was probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like mad and then attenuating everything back down again. There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high impedance transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily available when it was designed. The benefits of the technology working beautifully in steamy jungles was entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a prayer to it over the years. Chris Woolf On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. > ?One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader > controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself > rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone > preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then attenuates the > signal leaving that pre-amp. ?What this meant in reality was that > those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic ranges. ?If you > moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it could comfortably > cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all the way up, it > would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without altering > the pre-set channel gain control. > > This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for > granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were > equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio > distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. > ?Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom and > the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more > care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. > > Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. > ?The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment > was consigned to the scrap heap. > > Alan Taylor > > > > On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 > > wrote: > >> On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room >>> behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green >>> explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! >>> >>> >> It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite >> staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. >> >> Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare >> can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to >> beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can >> perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. >> >> It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} >> >> Chris Woolf >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Avast logo >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> www.avast.com >> >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Tue Jun 11 18:41:22 2019 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 00:41:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <57c2b0e793dave@davesound.co.uk> In article , Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > I have a recollection that you could over-plug the mic amps in Pres B to > cater for OGWT levels. A C28 was very happy if you did that, and of > course, we were a long time before phantom power came into being. Yes. ISTR they went straight to the fader. No amps at all until afterwards. Oddly, the Neve desk in the Teddington Studios 'Band room' was like that. The mic amps couldn't handle some mics under some conditions. Notably the U77, which was popular for some things despite having U87s too. (Useful mic, the U77. You could power it from an internal PP3, and the high output made it handy for use in remote locations with long poor cable runs.) -- *Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether * Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk London SW 12 From nick at nickway.co.uk Wed Jun 12 06:37:43 2019 From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 12:37:43 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <57c2b0e793dave@davesound.co.uk> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <57c2b0e793dave@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: <81170486.335566.1560339463125@email.ionos.co.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Wed Jun 12 06:42:32 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:42:32 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <7ffb39fb-a641-9045-0598-fa2bd451171b@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> , <7ffb39fb-a641-9045-0598-fa2bd451171b@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: As I remember it, the (transistorised) Pye channel faders had two sets of wipers. One was linear, and varied the resistance of the negative feedback loop, and the other had a tapered law as a potential divider after the amp. The BBC Type C (or was it D?) did the same. The downside was why there was no consistent place to derive PFL from, so the PFL had to have some sort of AGC. A neat idea, but not so easy to implement in a transformerless (Op-amp) mic amp. Thankfully, mic amps are light years on from what they were then. Nick. Sent from my iPad On 12 Jun 2019, at 12:05, Chris Woolf via Tech1 > wrote: A useful piece of history - thank you. That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement was probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like mad and then attenuating everything back down again. There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high impedance transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily available when it was designed. The benefits of the technology working beautifully in steamy jungles was entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a prayer to it over the years. Chris Woolf On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. What this meant in reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic ranges. If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without altering the pre-set channel gain control. This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom and the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. Alan Taylor On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 > wrote: On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} Chris Woolf ________________________________ [Avast logo] This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Wed Jun 12 06:43:40 2019 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 12:43:40 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <7ffb39fb-a641-9045-0598-fa2bd451171b@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7ffb39fb-a641-9045-0598-fa2bd451171b@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <9F3987A3-7BFA-410D-918A-A2ADEF33A13B@me.com> Yes, those desks were transistorised and from what I can recall about repairing them, they used fairly ordinary transistors too. The Neve desks which replaced them used operational amplifiers and people who built audio projects thirty years ago will be well familiar with operational amplifiers as integrated circuits, but the Neve operational amplifiers were credit card sized plug-in PCB modules full of individual transistors. I spent many years as the SA1 guaranteeing the MSC ( Mobile Sound Control vehicle ), which specialised in musical shows. When it was designed there was a big constraint due to the width of the vehicle and, they installed a new Neve desk with channels using compact modules which were narrower than usual. It provided the maximum number of channels within the widest vehicle allowed on our roads. The modules used the same circuitry as other Neve desks of that era, but the electronics was built that little bit smaller. One way they achieved that was by mounting electrolytic capacitors vertically rather than horizontally, so that the PCBs could be made smaller. The downside of that that became apparent several years later when the boards started suffering from intermittent faults which were very tricky to diagnose. It was eventually discovered that the electrolytic capacitors were shaken about when the vehicle was being driven and the constant jiggling of those capacitors caused the printed circuit tracks to suffer from metal fatigue just at the point where the solder stops and the copper track continues. When being tested, sometimes the signal could pass satisfactorily and then after the slightest vibration, it would stop working. If you tried working on the module, even the vibration from touching a test probe could either stop it working or cure it. The fix was quite simple. A blob of hot glue was applied to stop the capacitors jiggling and the solder joints were re-made in order to bridge any hairline crack which might have started. Alan Taylor On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 12:04, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > A useful piece of history - thank you. > > That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement was probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like mad and then attenuating everything back down again. > There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high impedance transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily available when it was designed. The benefits of the technology working beautifully in steamy jungles was entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a prayer to it over the years. > > Chris Woolf > > > On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. What this meant in reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic ranges. If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without altering the pre-set channel gain control. >> >> This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom and the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. >> >> Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. >> >> Alan Taylor >> >> >> >> On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >> >>> On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: >>>> I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! >>>> >>>> >>> It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. >>> >>> Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. >>> >>> It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} >>> >>> Chris Woolf >>> >>> >>> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>> www.avast.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Wed Jun 12 07:02:36 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 12:02:36 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> , <7ffb39fb-a641-9045-0598-fa2bd451171b@chriswoolf.co.uk>, Message-ID: Oh bums - The downside was that there was... ...not why. N. Sent from my iPad On 12 Jun 2019, at 12:42, Nick Ware > wrote: As I remember it, the (transistorised) Pye channel faders had two sets of wipers. One was linear, and varied the resistance of the negative feedback loop, and the other had a tapered law as a potential divider after the amp. The BBC Type C (or was it D?) did the same. The downside was why there was no consistent place to derive PFL from, so the PFL had to have some sort of AGC. A neat idea, but not so easy to implement in a transformerless (Op-amp) mic amp. Thankfully, mic amps are light years on from what they were then. Nick. Sent from my iPad On 12 Jun 2019, at 12:05, Chris Woolf via Tech1 > wrote: A useful piece of history - thank you. That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement was probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like mad and then attenuating everything back down again. There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high impedance transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily available when it was designed. The benefits of the technology working beautifully in steamy jungles was entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a prayer to it over the years. Chris Woolf On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. What this meant in reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic ranges. If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without altering the pre-set channel gain control. This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom and the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. Alan Taylor On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 > wrote: On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} Chris Woolf ________________________________ [Avast logo] This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mail at terrymeadowcroft.co.uk Wed Jun 12 07:26:13 2019 From: mail at terrymeadowcroft.co.uk (terrymeadowcroft) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:26:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fw: [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. Message-ID: (sorry, forgot to send a copy to the forum) ----- Original Message ----- From: terrymeadowcroft To: Chris Woolf Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. Hi Chris As you know, I spent much of my lovely life in steamy jungles and in places like Florida where there are lots of heavy duty air coolers and a very damp, hot climate. At that time we had, at YTV, a lovely stereo microphone produced by Neumann, the RSM 191. We landed in West Virginia half an hour before dashing to the first location, got the gear up and running and within 10 minutes I had to get the hair drier on the mic and its control box to get rid of the well known sound of high impedance break down. This did not go down well! During my fil;ming days I did give thanks at the shrine of Sennheiser RF mics., especially when I did four series of seven programmes each, of a thing called O'Shea's Big Adventure (Ch4 and Animal Planet), which took us to many unpronounceable countries, many in jungle conditions searching out quaint reptiles and snakes, and, er, things. Nothing would have convinced me to use anything but RF-principle mics. Quite unlike working in studios, the mics we took to unpredictable conditions had to be reliable when running around miles from the nearest mains socket in which to plug the hair drier, and the snakes and reptiles wouldn't wait for us to be ready! I hesitate to mention the time when we did a long interview in a house somewhere in swamp land, Louisiana, and there came a thunderstorm outside which found the box left open containing a Sennheiser MKH 816 rifle mic. (we used them a lot in those days - brilliant mics.) left OPEN, though, oops! I was assistant on that job, and I didn't mention the mic.-in-a-pool to the recordist, just dried it out on a radiator overnight, and used it the very next day. Iyt had actually been under water! We needed mics. which didn't require prayers to ensure they gave pretty well guaranteed results. I recall at one IPS Wood Norton weekends, the really nice Schoeps man defending his mics when I was singing the praises of the Sennheisers. I asked him how I could guarantee the Schoeps, which of course are top mics., would be jungle-reliable and he said he would recommend having the mics. serviced prior to using them in damp conditions. I lived then in a world where mics. need to be ready to go constantly, and regular servicing was neither practicable in hurried schedules, nor affordable. The RF principle mics. handled the rough and tumble of practical film work outstandingly well. I think as far from entirely incidental - it was crucial. Now DAT was a different matter. That DID need prayers! Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Woolf via Tech1 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. A useful piece of history - thank you. That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement was probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like mad and then attenuating everything back down again. There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high impedance transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily available when it was designed. The benefits of the technology working beautifully in steamy jungles was entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a prayer to it over the years. Chris Woolf On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. What this meant in reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic ranges. If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without altering the pre-set channel gain control. This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom and the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. Alan Taylor On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} Chris Woolf -------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From keithwicksuk at gmail.com Wed Jun 12 10:54:05 2019 From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 16:54:05 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fw: [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have attached a Sennheiser document telling the story of their MKH microphones. KW On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 13:26, terrymeadowcroft via Tech1 < tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > (sorry, forgot to send a copy to the forum) > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* terrymeadowcroft > *To:* Chris Woolf > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 12, 2019 1:24 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. > > Hi Chris > > As you know, I spent much of my lovely life in steamy jungles and in > places like Florida where there are lots of heavy duty air coolers and a > very damp, hot climate. At that time we had, at YTV, a lovely stereo > microphone produced by Neumann, the RSM 191. > > We landed in West Virginia half an hour before dashing to the first > location, got the gear up and running and within 10 minutes I had to get > the hair drier on the mic and its control box to get rid of the well known > sound of high impedance break down. This did not go down well! > > During my fil;ming days I did give thanks at the shrine of Sennheiser RF > mics., especially when I did four series of seven programmes each, of a > thing called O'Shea's Big Adventure (Ch4 and Animal Planet), which took us > to many unpronounceable countries, many in jungle conditions searching out > quaint reptiles and snakes, and, er, things. Nothing would have convinced > me to use anything but RF-principle mics. > > Quite unlike working in studios, the mics we took to unpredictable > conditions had to be reliable when running around miles from the nearest > mains socket in which to plug the hair drier, and the snakes and reptiles > wouldn't wait for us to be ready! > > I hesitate to mention the time when we did a long interview in a house > somewhere in swamp land, Louisiana, and there came a thunderstorm outside > which found the box left open containing a Sennheiser MKH 816 rifle mic. > (we used them a lot in those days - brilliant mics.) left OPEN, though, > oops! I was assistant on that job, and I didn't mention the mic.-in-a-pool > to the recordist, just dried it out on a radiator overnight, and used it > the very next day. Iyt had actually been under water! > > We needed mics. which didn't require prayers to ensure they gave pretty > well guaranteed results. > > I recall at one IPS Wood Norton weekends, the really nice Schoeps man > defending his mics when I was singing the praises of the Sennheisers. I > asked him how I could guarantee the Schoeps, which of course are top > mics., would be jungle-reliable and he said he would recommend having the > mics. serviced prior to using them in damp conditions. > > I lived then in a world where mics. need to be ready to go constantly, and > regular servicing was neither practicable in hurried schedules, nor > affordable. > > The RF principle mics. handled the rough and tumble of practical film work > outstandingly well. I think as far from entirely incidental - it was > crucial. > > Now DAT was a different matter. That DID need prayers! > > Terry > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Chris Woolf via Tech1 > *To:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 12, 2019 12:04 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. > > A useful piece of history - thank you. > > That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones > struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement was > probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like mad and then > attenuating everything back down again. > > There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that mostly > went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. The > (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high impedance > transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily available when it was > designed. The benefits of the technology working beautifully in steamy > jungles was entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a > prayer to it over the years. > > Chris Woolf > > > On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > > The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. > One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader controlled > the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself rather than the more > usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone preamplifier stage is followed > by a fader which then attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. What > this meant in reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing > dynamic ranges. If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, > it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all > the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without > altering the pre-set channel gain control. > > This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for > granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were equipped > with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio distortion > during situations such as goals in football matches. Supervisors had to be > reminded of the concept of limited headroom and the importance of setting > up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had > been accustomed to on Pye desks. > > Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. The > Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment was > consigned to the scrap heap. > > Alan Taylor > > > > On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 < > tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > > On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: > > I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind Pres > B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained that line > level was usually delivered from the snare mic! > > It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering > levels, given the necessary acoustic input. > > Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can > produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to > beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly > easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. > > It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} > > Chris Woolf > > > ------------------------------ > [image: Avast logo] > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: MKH-Story_WhitePaper_en.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1179070 bytes Desc: not available URL: From relong at btinternet.com Wed Jun 12 10:59:00 2019 From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 16:59:00 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> Message-ID: <6DF34D41-E09C-4640-88D5-8819B2F4BC07@btinternet.com> Mavis Foster Mike Don?t know what Cliff called her but in Film Unit she was an object of unresolved hate. Later AAs were much younger and more pliant, Mavis was in a relationship with the Studio Fireman She thought she knew staff regs When our ETU shop steward spark retired he had an advance of ?3k outstanding, he never repaid it One of her replacements was a Bristol Uni Law graduate?. Roger > On 10 Jun 2019, at 19:48, Mike Giles wrote: > > Are we talking about the same lady which Cliff White named as Mac Hipwood? > > Mike G > >> On 10 Jun 2019, at 17:36, Roger E Long via Tech1 wrote: >> >> That was Mavis Mike >> She was formidable but eventually we wore her down and she retired, possibly with a breakdown?. >> Roger >> >>> On 8 Jun 2019, at 21:55, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> We had an equally fearsome, though rather younger lady in Bristol who guarded Aunty?s purse with the same degree of vigour as Pat Jenner, who was still ruling the expenses roost when I moved up to TVC. I quite forget the Bristol dragon?s name, but had many tussles with her over mileage claims and the number of meals that we may or may not have been entitled to. We usually had an SM or two on attachment from BH and she was particularly at odds with them, but she had her Damascus Road moment when she had to go on a three month course in London. The very BH SM?s who she was so at pains to penalise had the good sense to offer her accommodation at a very reasonable rate, using a room that was normally occupied by one of the SM?s who was currently in Bristol on attachment. But, of course, she was claiming Sched ?A? and probably other things beside and came back to Bristol with an absolute gleam in her eye and far greater tolerance of the perfectly legitimate expenses claims that she would previously have pared to the bone. We never did establish whether the gleam was inspired by the handsome profit she had made, or her encounter with an equally handsome, very large and very naked Nigerian gent, who was standing full frontal in the bath when she burst in to the bathroom one morning. As an unmarried lady, we gathered that this was a totally new experience for her! But something had pierced her iron shell. >>> >>> Mike G >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > From keithwicksuk at gmail.com Wed Jun 12 11:25:54 2019 From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 17:25:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Montalbano In-Reply-To: <90afe1f3-d548-f41e-cf9d-c13122c40f51@gmail.com> References: <5544b8e9-cb25-ed11-2707-ff9d7cbd46dd@gmail.com> <63623d8b-72ab-cb0f-afef-4282b0359dc0@gmail.com> <90afe1f3-d548-f41e-cf9d-c13122c40f51@gmail.com> Message-ID: A while ago, Bernard asked why Tarrantino still shoots on 70 mm film. Here's a link to an item that attempts to answer this question. (I did say "attempts".) https://www.indiewire.com/2017/07/christopher-nolan-dunkirk-70mm-quentin-tarantino-paul-thomas-anderson-1201855575/ KW On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 at 08:43, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > I would imagine that for Arricam substitute Arri Alexa. Though people > still shoot films on 35mm (Quentin Tarrantino on 70mm (why?)), most stuff > these days is electronic. > > B > > > On 02/06/2019 07:44, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: > > Hi All, > > I too was watching Montalbano on BBC4. > > My wife and I have watched all the series on BBC4 - well,, it's sort of > "Midsomer Murders" but set in Sicily, and my wife is learning Italian. We > have visited Ragusa, and have wandered around outside Montalbano's home in > Punta Secca ... > > Earlier this year, we were in Northern Italy (Molveno, actually, in the > ex-Austrian Alto Adige - it was a lovely place! Italian Food and Austrian > environmental planning - almost heaven!) > > RAI had just started broadcasting the new series of "Montalbano", so of > course we watched it in the hotel room. The picture quality was > considerably different - much brighter, sharper etc. We joked that > "Montalbano" looked better in Italian! > > Well, of course, "Montalbano" was on BBC4 - and (to our eyes) the picture > quality looked considerably better than the previous series - much > brighter, sharper etc - in fact, exactly as we had seen in Italy. > > According to IMDB, the tech specs (certainly for the early series) are: > Sound Mix Stereo > > Color Color > > Aspect Ratio 1.85 : 1 > Camera Arricam LT > Arricam ST > Arriflex 35 BL3 > Negative Format 35 mm > Cinematographic Process Super 35 (source format) > Printed Film Format Video (HDTV) > > and the subtitles looked like "the usual" subtitles added during film > printing. > > > For this new series, the subtitles are electronically/digitally produced > and overlaid like a "normal" television caption (whatever that means in > these days!). > > Has the equipment been upgraded? Has the production process been changed > to have end-to-end digital transmission? I would love to know if there > really has been a change in production techniques - there seem to be a lot > more companies co-operating in the production of this series (including > Warner) - (trying to read the impossible-to-read end credits!) compared to > the co-production credits in the past (RAI, Palomar).... > > > Any clues and comments .... > > > -- > > Best Regards > > Alec > > Alec Bray > alec.bray.2 at gmail.com > mob: 07789 561 346 > home: 0118 981 7502 > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Wed Jun 12 11:26:27 2019 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 17:26:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <77352F52-5F2D-4910-9049-08150F1ECB9B@me.com> I bought two RSM 191 microphones, they cost a fortune but sounded fabulous and the off-mic pick up was beautifully clean, but nicely attenuated. I had previously worked with the RMS 190 too and greatly impressed by it. The biggest problem was that there were too many ways for them to go wrong. There was the microphone itself, a unique DIN to XLR cable through the windshield, a special 7 way XLR cable to the matrix box, the matrix box itself and a breakout cable. If any part failed you were left speechless, or at least the actors were left speechless. Furthermore the matrix box needed two fairly hefty feeds of phantom power, drawing about 10mA each, which was not always available from every mixer or recorder. If I were to have a reliable microphone, I needed a spare for each part and that's why I bought two systems. The biggest drawback for me was that the 7 XLR way cable between the windshield and matrix box carried unbalanced signals, making the system become an excellent radio receiver. I was doing a film in stereo and one day the camera was put on a Steadicam with RF focussing. The focus puller's transmitter interfered badly with both Neumanns and rendered them unusable which meant that I had to revert to mono coverage with a different microphone. I also had issues when filming near a Police transmitter tower which rendered my 191's unusable. When I was using an RSM 190 in the BBC, a boom operator diligently removed the foam windshield after somebody splashed liquid on it, the microphone was fine and it was left standing up on a short Panamic boom pole while the windshield was being dried. Somebody knocked it over and the RSM 190 fell head first onto the concrete floor and smashed apart. It looked like the exploded view in a maintenance handbook. The parts were taken back to base in a zip-lock bag. Alan Taylor On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 13:26, terrymeadowcroft via Tech1 wrote: > (sorry, forgot to send a copy to the forum) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: terrymeadowcroft > To: Chris Woolf > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 1:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. > > Hi Chris > > As you know, I spent much of my lovely life in steamy jungles and in places like Florida where there are lots of heavy duty air coolers and a very damp, hot climate. At that time we had, at YTV, a lovely stereo microphone produced by Neumann, the RSM 191. > > We landed in West Virginia half an hour before dashing to the first location, got the gear up and running and within 10 minutes I had to get the hair drier on the mic and its control box to get rid of the well known sound of high impedance break down. This did not go down well! > > During my fil;ming days I did give thanks at the shrine of Sennheiser RF mics., especially when I did four series of seven programmes each, of a thing called O'Shea's Big Adventure (Ch4 and Animal Planet), which took us to many unpronounceable countries, many in jungle conditions searching out quaint reptiles and snakes, and, er, things. Nothing would have convinced me to use anything but RF-principle mics. > > Quite unlike working in studios, the mics we took to unpredictable conditions had to be reliable when running around miles from the nearest mains socket in which to plug the hair drier, and the snakes and reptiles wouldn't wait for us to be ready! > > I hesitate to mention the time when we did a long interview in a house somewhere in swamp land, Louisiana, and there came a thunderstorm outside which found the box left open containing a Sennheiser MKH 816 rifle mic. (we used them a lot in those days - brilliant mics.) left OPEN, though, oops! I was assistant on that job, and I didn't mention the mic.-in-a-pool to the recordist, just dried it out on a radiator overnight, and used it the very next day. Iyt had actually been under water! > > We needed mics. which didn't require prayers to ensure they gave pretty well guaranteed results. > > I recall at one IPS Wood Norton weekends, the really nice Schoeps man defending his mics when I was singing the praises of the Sennheisers. I asked him how I could guarantee the Schoeps, which of course are top mics., would be jungle-reliable and he said he would recommend having the mics. serviced prior to using them in damp conditions. > > I lived then in a world where mics. need to be ready to go constantly, and regular servicing was neither practicable in hurried schedules, nor affordable. > > The RF principle mics. handled the rough and tumble of practical film work outstandingly well. I think as far from entirely incidental - it was crucial. > > Now DAT was a different matter. That DID need prayers! > > Terry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chris Woolf via Tech1 > To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 12:04 PM > Subject: Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. > > A useful piece of history - thank you. > > That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement was probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like mad and then attenuating everything back down again. > > There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high impedance transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily available when it was designed. The benefits of the technology working beautifully in steamy jungles was entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a prayer to it over the years. > > Chris Woolf > > > > On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. What this meant in reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic ranges. If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without altering the pre-set channel gain control. >> >> This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom and the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. >> >> Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. >> >> Alan Taylor >> >> >> >> On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >> >>> On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: >>>> I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! >>>> >>>> >>> It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. >>> >>> Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. >>> >>> It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} >>> >>> Chris Woolf >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>> www.avast.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Wed Jun 12 12:00:40 2019 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 18:00:40 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <77352F52-5F2D-4910-9049-08150F1ECB9B@me.com> References: <77352F52-5F2D-4910-9049-08150F1ECB9B@me.com> Message-ID: <27c3f98e-53db-9acf-160e-6d21b2b4b9b3@chriswoolf.co.uk> The RSMs were a nightmare to almost everyone, and privately Neumann will admit they wished they had never made them. The mics suffered from damp, they suffered those RF problems, they suffered far too many interconnection points, they were forever going wrong electrically, and they suffered mechanically from the internal rubber cushions changing shape, contributing to all sorts of mysterious clunks. But in the studio... no manufacturer has been able to better the Berliners. Chris Woolf On 12/06/2019 17:26, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > I bought two RSM 191 microphones, they cost a fortune but sounded > fabulous and the off-mic pick up was beautifully clean, but nicely > attenuated. ?I had previously worked with the RMS 190 too and greatly > impressed by it. ?The biggest problem was that there were too many > ways for them to go wrong. ?There was the microphone itself, a unique > DIN to XLR cable through the windshield, a special 7 way XLR cable to > the matrix box, the matrix box itself and a breakout cable. ?If any > part failed you were left speechless, or at least the actors were left > speechless. Furthermore the matrix box needed two fairly hefty feeds > of phantom power, drawing about 10mA each, which was not always > available from every mixer or recorder. ?If I were to have a reliable > microphone, I needed a spare for each part and that's why I bought two > systems. > > The biggest drawback for me was that the 7 XLR way cable between the > windshield and matrix box carried unbalanced signals, making the > system become an excellent radio receiver. ?I was doing a film in > stereo and one day the camera was put on a Steadicam with RF > focussing. ?The focus puller's transmitter interfered badly with both > Neumanns and rendered them unusable which meant that I had to revert > to mono coverage with a different microphone. ?I also had issues when > filming near a Police transmitter tower which rendered my 191's unusable. > > When I was using an RSM 190 in the BBC, a boom operator diligently > removed the foam windshield after somebody splashed liquid on it, the > microphone was fine and it was left standing up on a short Panamic > boom pole while the windshield was being dried. ?Somebody knocked it > over and the RSM 190 fell head first onto the concrete floor and > smashed apart. ?It looked like the exploded view in a maintenance > handbook. The parts were taken back to base in a zip-lock bag. > > Alan Taylor > > > > On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 13:26, terrymeadowcroft via Tech1 > > wrote: > >> (sorry, forgot to send a copy to the forum) >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:*terrymeadowcroft >> *To:*Chris Woolf >> *Sent:*Wednesday, June 12, 2019 1:24 PM >> *Subject:*Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. >> >> Hi Chris >> As you know, I spent much of my lovely life in steamy jungles and in >> places like Florida where there are lots of heavy duty air coolers >> and a very damp, hot climate. At that time we had, at YTV, a?lovely >> stereo microphone produced by Neumann, the RSM 191. >> We landed in West Virginia half an hour before dashing to the first >> location, got the gear up and running and within 10 minutes I had to >> get the hair drier on the mic and its control box to get rid of the >> well known sound of high impedance break down. This did not go down well! >> During my fil;ming days I did?give thanks?at the shrine of Sennheiser >> RF mics., especially?when I did four series of seven programmes each, >> of a thing called O'Shea's Big Adventure (Ch4 and Animal Planet), >> which took us to many unpronounceable countries, many in jungle >> conditions searching out quaint reptiles and snakes, and, er, things. >> Nothing would have convinced me to use anything but RF-principle mics. >> Quite unlike working in studios, the mics we took to unpredictable >> conditions had to be reliable when running around miles from the >> nearest mains socket in which to plug the hair drier, and the snakes >> and reptiles wouldn't wait for us to be ready! >> I hesitate to mention the time when we did a long interview in a >> house somewhere in swamp land, Louisiana, and there came a >> thunderstorm outside which found the box left open containing a >> Sennheiser??MKH 816 rifle mic. (we used them a lot in those days - >> brilliant mics.) left OPEN, though, oops! I was assistant on that >> job, and I didn't mention the mic.-in-a-pool to the recordist, just >> dried it out on a radiator overnight, and used it the very next day. >> Iyt had actually been under water! >> We needed mics. which didn't require prayers to ensure they gave >> pretty well guaranteed results. >> I recall at one IPS Wood Norton weekends, the really nice?Schoeps man >> defending his mics when I was singing the praises of the Sennheisers. >> I asked him how I could guarantee the Schoeps, which of course are >> top mics.,?would be jungle-reliable and he said he would recommend >> having the mics. serviced prior to using them in damp conditions. >> I lived then?in a world where mics. need to be?ready to >> go?constantly, and regular servicing was neither practicable in >> hurried schedules, nor affordable. >> The RF principle mics. handled the rough and tumble of practical film >> work outstandingly well. I think?as far from entirely incidental - it >> was crucial. >> Now DAT was a different matter. That DID need prayers! >> Terry >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> *From:*Chris Woolf via Tech1 >> *To:*tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> *Sent:*Wednesday, June 12, 2019 12:04 PM >> *Subject:*Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. >> >> A useful piece of history - thank you. >> >> That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early >> ones struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain >> arrangement was probably a clever way to do that - rather than >> amplifying like mad and then attenuating everything back down again. >> >> There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches >> that mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of >> technology. The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about >> because very high impedance transistor circuitry for portable >> mics wasn't easily available when it was designed. The benefits >> of the technology working beautifully in steamy jungles was >> entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a >> prayer to it over the years. >> >> Chris Woolf >> >> >> On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>> The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound >>> desks. ?One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant >>> fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier >>> itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set >>> microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then >>> attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. ?What this meant in >>> reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing >>> dynamic ranges. ?If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the >>> backstop, it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high >>> level and if you fade all the way up, it would provide plenty of >>> gain for quieter inputs, all without altering the pre-set >>> channel gain control. >>> >>> This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken >>> for granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners >>> were equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started >>> experiencing audio distortion during situations such as goals in >>> football matches. ?Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept >>> of limited headroom and the importance of setting up the pre-set >>> gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had been >>> accustomed to on Pye desks. >>> >>> Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive >>> overmods. ?The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye >>> audio equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. >>> >>> Alan Taylor >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room >>>>> behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick >>>>> Green explained that line level was usually delivered from the >>>>> snare mic! >>>>> >>>>> >>>> It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite >>>> staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. >>>> >>>> Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a >>>> snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When >>>> it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous >>>> MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they >>>> start to distort. >>>> >>>> It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} >>>> >>>> Chris Woolf >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Avast logo >>>> >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus >>>> software. >>>> www.avast.com >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Wed Jun 12 12:25:06 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 18:25:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Message-ID: A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, and this photo which I haven't seen before - -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: amjaicpiihklkkgn.png Type: image/png Size: 416453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Jun 12 12:56:47 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 18:56:47 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <27c3f98e-53db-9acf-160e-6d21b2b4b9b3@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <77352F52-5F2D-4910-9049-08150F1ECB9B@me.com> <27c3f98e-53db-9acf-160e-6d21b2b4b9b3@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <5d013cdf.1c69fb81.749d7.3128@mx.google.com> I also had an RSM 191, or it might have been the 190, I did not like it for the reasons that it was heavy on the pole, but also the back lobe was far too sensitive, the rear rejection was lousy. I managed to sell it to someone in Ireland who wanted it. I preferred the MKH60/30 rig, as A/B or M/S was easily obtained. Another correspondent praised the 816, but had he tried using it within sight of CP? I had a horrendous shoot, a short way from under the mast, and I could only lessen the RF interference by aligning the mic in a particular direction ? tricky! I did not like the 416, either, as the frequency response altered as one came off axis, thus making it difficult to balance between two unequal voices by dexterous favouring. Much preferred the M60. Also working at the grid on a Formula 1 shoot, the 416 was far too sensitive, and could hardly be brought off the backstop. I switched to a dynamic mic, Beyer M160, for the remainder of the series. Ah, well, fond memories?? Pat (Forgot to mention that the East Berlin TV tower totally screwed the radio mics, trying to shoot in the Under den Linden!) Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Chris Woolf via Tech1 Sent: 12 June 2019 18:01 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. The RSMs were a nightmare to almost everyone, and privately Neumann will admit they wished they had never made them. The mics suffered from damp, they suffered those RF problems, they suffered far too many interconnection points, they were forever going wrong electrically, and they suffered mechanically from the internal rubber cushions changing shape, contributing to all sorts of mysterious clunks. But in the studio... no manufacturer has been able to better the Berliners. Chris Woolf On 12/06/2019 17:26, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: I bought two RSM 191 microphones, they cost a fortune but sounded fabulous and the off-mic pick up was beautifully clean, but nicely attenuated. ?I had previously worked with the RMS 190 too and greatly impressed by it. ?The biggest problem was that there were too many ways for them to go wrong. ?There was the microphone itself, a unique DIN to XLR cable through the windshield, a special 7 way XLR cable to the matrix box, the matrix box itself and a breakout cable. ?If any part failed you were left speechless, or at least the actors were left speechless. Furthermore the matrix box needed two fairly hefty feeds of phantom power, drawing about 10mA each, which was not always available from every mixer or recorder. ?If I were to have a reliable microphone, I needed a spare for each part and that's why I bought two systems. The biggest drawback for me was that the 7 XLR way cable between the windshield and matrix box carried unbalanced signals, making the system become an excellent radio receiver. ?I was doing a film in stereo and one day the camera was put on a Steadicam with RF focussing. ?The focus puller's transmitter interfered badly with both Neumanns and rendered them unusable which meant that I had to revert to mono coverage with a different microphone. ?I also had issues when filming near a Police transmitter tower which rendered my 191's unusable. When I was using an RSM 190 in the BBC, a boom operator diligently removed the foam windshield after somebody splashed liquid on it, the microphone was fine and it was left standing up on a short Panamic boom pole while the windshield was being dried. ?Somebody knocked it over and the RSM 190 fell head first onto the concrete floor and smashed apart. ?It looked like the exploded view in a maintenance handbook. The parts were taken back to base in a zip-lock bag. Alan Taylor On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 13:26, terrymeadowcroft via Tech1 wrote: (sorry, forgot to send a copy to the forum) ----- Original Message ----- From:?terrymeadowcroft To:?Chris Woolf Sent:?Wednesday, June 12, 2019 1:24 PM Subject:?Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. Hi Chris ? As you know, I spent much of my lovely life in steamy jungles and in places like Florida where there are lots of heavy duty air coolers and a very damp, hot climate. At that time we had, at YTV, a?lovely stereo microphone produced by Neumann, the RSM 191. ? We landed in West Virginia half an hour before dashing to the first location, got the gear up and running and within 10 minutes I had to get the hair drier on the mic and its control box to get rid of the well known sound of high impedance break down. This did not go down well! ? During my fil;ming days I did?give thanks?at the shrine of Sennheiser RF mics., especially?when I did four series of seven programmes each, of a thing called O'Shea's Big Adventure (Ch4 and Animal Planet), which took us to many unpronounceable countries, many in jungle conditions searching out quaint reptiles and snakes, and, er, things. Nothing would have convinced me to use anything but RF-principle mics. ? Quite unlike working in studios, the mics we took to unpredictable conditions had to be reliable when running around miles from the nearest mains socket in which to plug the hair drier, and the snakes and reptiles wouldn't wait for us to be ready! ? I hesitate to mention the time when we did a long interview in a house somewhere in swamp land, Louisiana, and there came a thunderstorm outside which found the box left open containing a Sennheiser??MKH 816 rifle mic. (we used them a lot in those days - brilliant mics.) left OPEN, though, oops! I was assistant on that job, and I didn't mention the mic.-in-a-pool to the recordist, just dried it out on a radiator overnight, and used it the very next day. Iyt had actually been under water! ? We needed mics. which didn't require prayers to ensure they gave pretty well guaranteed results. ? I recall at one IPS Wood Norton weekends, the really nice?Schoeps man defending his mics when I was singing the praises of the Sennheisers. I asked him how I could guarantee the Schoeps, which of course are top mics.,?would be jungle-reliable and he said he would recommend having the mics. serviced prior to using them in damp conditions. ? I lived then?in a world where mics. need to be?ready to go?constantly, and regular servicing was neither practicable in hurried schedules, nor affordable. ? The RF principle mics. handled the rough and tumble of practical film work outstandingly well. I think?as far from entirely incidental - it was crucial. ? Now DAT was a different matter. That DID need prayers! ? Terry ? ----- Original Message ----- From:?Chris Woolf via Tech1 To:?tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Sent:?Wednesday, June 12, 2019 12:04 PM Subject:?Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. A useful piece of history - thank you. That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement was probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like mad and then attenuating everything back down again.? There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high impedance transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily available when it was designed. The benefits of the technology working beautifully in steamy jungles was entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a prayer to it over the years. Chris Woolf On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. ?One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. ?What this meant in reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic ranges. ?If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without altering the pre-set channel gain control. ? This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. ?Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom and the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. ?The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. Alan Taylor On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} Chris Woolf This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.? www.avast.com --? Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk --? Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk --? Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BBC58167553E4D31BF4BF4F8AAD14F97.png Type: image/png Size: 137 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 6211D52601D9452B9E46B358D2EFC616.png Type: image/png Size: 136 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Jun 12 13:15:36 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 19:15:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Montalbano In-Reply-To: References: <5544b8e9-cb25-ed11-2707-ff9d7cbd46dd@gmail.com> <63623d8b-72ab-cb0f-afef-4282b0359dc0@gmail.com> <90afe1f3-d548-f41e-cf9d-c13122c40f51@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5d014148.1c69fb81.79897.0fab@mx.google.com> I believe that the camera stock is actually 65mm. The release prints are 70mm, to accommodate the sound tracks. Something to do with the narrower stock being cheaper, and processing costs less?? Some years ago, I had a technical tour of the IMAX theatre at Waterloo ? the projection gauge is 70mm, running horizontally. The audio comes off computer, with an optically generated sync pulse from the projector. We were intrigued, that if the film suffered a break, the damaged frames were replaced with black leader ? apparently it was difficult to modify the computer sound track to eliminate the damaged frames. What looked good were the big wide shots, particularly from the air. Not so good with CU?s of head and shoulders! Best Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Keith Wicks via Tech1 Sent: 12 June 2019 17:26 To: Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 Subject: Re: [Tech1] Montalbano A while ago, Bernard asked why Tarrantino still shoots on 70 mm film. Here's a link to an item that attempts to answer this question. (I did say "attempts".) https://www.indiewire.com/2017/07/christopher-nolan-dunkirk-70mm-quentin-tarantino-paul-thomas-anderson-1201855575/ KW --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com Wed Jun 12 14:26:14 2019 From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 20:26:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <7ffb39fb-a641-9045-0598-fa2bd451171b@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7ffb39fb-a641-9045-0598-fa2bd451171b@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: Ah! The good old Pye desk?..! We had a pair of Pye limiters in TC5 for many years and even took them abroad. Barry. This Pye desk was removed from the TV Theatre during its refurbishment and installed in Golders Green Hippodrome. On 12 Jun 2019, at 12:04, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > A useful piece of history - thank you. > > That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement was probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like mad and then attenuating everything back down again. > There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high impedance transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily available when it was designed. The benefits of the technology working beautifully in steamy jungles was entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a prayer to it over the years. > > Chris Woolf > > > On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. What this meant in reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic ranges. If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without altering the pre-set channel gain control. >> >> This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom and the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. >> >> Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. >> >> Alan Taylor >> >> >> >> On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >> >>> On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: >>>> I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! >>>> >>>> >>> It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. >>> >>> Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. >>> >>> It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} >>> >>> Chris Woolf >>> >>> >>> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>> www.avast.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Pye at GGH.JPG Type: image/jpg Size: 353723 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Wed Jun 12 14:44:48 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 20:44:48 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Pye desks In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7ffb39fb-a641-9045-0598-fa2bd451171b@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <3cd7aee5-dd5e-f537-3d91-a79ce3ea56f0@btinternet.com> The similar desk from TC1 was dropped from the gallery window onto the studio floor and Joe Driver collected some useful bits! It was about the time that a lot of gear and personal items were given a 'Foster' home (unofficially, of course!), Joe panicked and went to see the hierarchy and got an amnesty for the stuff he had 'borrowed'. Cheers, Dave From mail at terrymeadowcroft.co.uk Wed Jun 12 15:19:57 2019 From: mail at terrymeadowcroft.co.uk (terrymeadowcroft) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:19:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fw: [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. References: Message-ID: Hi Keith, Many thanks for that, I hadn't come across it before Bedtime reading tonight! Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Wicks To: terrymeadowcroft Cc: tech1 Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fw: [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. I have attached a Sennheiser document telling the story of their MKH microphones. KW On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 13:26, terrymeadowcroft via Tech1 wrote: (sorry, forgot to send a copy to the forum) ----- Original Message ----- From: terrymeadowcroft To: Chris Woolf Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. Hi Chris As you know, I spent much of my lovely life in steamy jungles and in places like Florida where there are lots of heavy duty air coolers and a very damp, hot climate. At that time we had, at YTV, a lovely stereo microphone produced by Neumann, the RSM 191. We landed in West Virginia half an hour before dashing to the first location, got the gear up and running and within 10 minutes I had to get the hair drier on the mic and its control box to get rid of the well known sound of high impedance break down. This did not go down well! During my fil;ming days I did give thanks at the shrine of Sennheiser RF mics., especially when I did four series of seven programmes each, of a thing called O'Shea's Big Adventure (Ch4 and Animal Planet), which took us to many unpronounceable countries, many in jungle conditions searching out quaint reptiles and snakes, and, er, things. Nothing would have convinced me to use anything but RF-principle mics. Quite unlike working in studios, the mics we took to unpredictable conditions had to be reliable when running around miles from the nearest mains socket in which to plug the hair drier, and the snakes and reptiles wouldn't wait for us to be ready! I hesitate to mention the time when we did a long interview in a house somewhere in swamp land, Louisiana, and there came a thunderstorm outside which found the box left open containing a Sennheiser MKH 816 rifle mic. (we used them a lot in those days - brilliant mics.) left OPEN, though, oops! I was assistant on that job, and I didn't mention the mic.-in-a-pool to the recordist, just dried it out on a radiator overnight, and used it the very next day. Iyt had actually been under water! We needed mics. which didn't require prayers to ensure they gave pretty well guaranteed results. I recall at one IPS Wood Norton weekends, the really nice Schoeps man defending his mics when I was singing the praises of the Sennheisers. I asked him how I could guarantee the Schoeps, which of course are top mics., would be jungle-reliable and he said he would recommend having the mics. serviced prior to using them in damp conditions. I lived then in a world where mics. need to be ready to go constantly, and regular servicing was neither practicable in hurried schedules, nor affordable. The RF principle mics. handled the rough and tumble of practical film work outstandingly well. I think as far from entirely incidental - it was crucial. Now DAT was a different matter. That DID need prayers! Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Woolf via Tech1 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. A useful piece of history - thank you. That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement was probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like mad and then attenuating everything back down again. There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high impedance transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily available when it was designed. The benefits of the technology working beautifully in steamy jungles was entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a prayer to it over the years. Chris Woolf On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. What this meant in reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic ranges. If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without altering the pre-set channel gain control. This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom and the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. Alan Taylor On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} Chris Woolf ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Wed Jun 12 15:52:44 2019 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:52:44 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7ffb39fb-a641-9045-0598-fa2bd451171b@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <60cf9d94-02d9-7825-db32-cef334ddb61a@howell61.f9.co.uk> Yes the Pye 4060 limiter/compressor was a very clever device, when the signal reached the set threshold it was gated at 250KHz to remove energy. The subjective results were much more acceptable than the? usual 'side-chain' variety. John H. On 12/06/2019 20:26, Barry Bonner via Tech1 wrote: > Ah! The good old Pye desk?..! > > We had a pair of Pye limiters in TC5 for many years and even took them > abroad. > Barry. > ?This Pye desk was removed from the TV Theatre during its > refurbishment and installed in Golders Green Hippodrome. > > > > > > On 12 Jun 2019, at 12:04, Chris Woolf via Tech1 > wrote: > >> A useful piece of history - thank you. >> >> That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones >> struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement >> was probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like >> mad and then attenuating everything back down again. >> >> There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that >> mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. >> The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high >> impedance transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily >> available when it was designed. The benefits of the technology >> working beautifully in steamy jungles was entirely incidental, even >> if countless recordists have said a prayer to it over the years. >> >> Chris Woolf >> >> >> On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>> The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound >>> desks. ?One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant >>> fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier >>> itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set >>> microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then >>> attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. ?What this meant in >>> reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic >>> ranges. ?If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it >>> could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade >>> all the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, >>> all without altering the pre-set channel gain control. >>> >>> This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for >>> granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were >>> equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio >>> distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. >>> ?Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom >>> and the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with >>> more care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. >>> >>> Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. >>> ?The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio >>> equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. >>> >>> Alan Taylor >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room >>>>> behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green >>>>> explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! >>>>> >>>>> >>>> It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite >>>> staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. >>>> >>>> Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a >>>> snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it >>>> comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, >>>> these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. >>>> >>>> It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} >>>> >>>> Chris Woolf >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Avast logo >>>> >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>>> www.avast.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >>> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From relong at btinternet.com Wed Jun 12 16:35:58 2019 From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 22:35:58 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <27c3f98e-53db-9acf-160e-6d21b2b4b9b3@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <77352F52-5F2D-4910-9049-08150F1ECB9B@me.com> <27c3f98e-53db-9acf-160e-6d21b2b4b9b3@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <7B10E618-FA60-4180-B44C-73BEFDFF96DF@btinternet.com> Only had a MKH fail once in hi humidity And that was in a monsoon on the Brahmaputra Also it was a MKH30, with the capsule open on two sides The TFS RSMs were a disaster, even after mods Classic MKH ,RF capsules, were more pragmatic and equalled Neumann SQ imho The MKH 800 is a cracker As for DAT, don?t get me started?? Sony should have offered a 4 track digital recorder using DigiBeta tape stock and camera batteries However Japanese hive minds don?t think like that, even after consultation. Roger > On 12 Jun 2019, at 18:00, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > The RSMs were a nightmare to almost everyone, and privately Neumann will admit they wished they had never made them. > > The mics suffered from damp, they suffered those RF problems, they suffered far too many interconnection points, they were forever going wrong electrically, and they suffered mechanically from the internal rubber cushions changing shape, contributing to all sorts of mysterious clunks. > > But in the studio... no manufacturer has been able to better the Berliners. > > Chris Woolf > > > > On 12/06/2019 17:26, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> I bought two RSM 191 microphones, they cost a fortune but sounded fabulous and the off-mic pick up was beautifully clean, but nicely attenuated. I had previously worked with the RMS 190 too and greatly impressed by it. The biggest problem was that there were too many ways for them to go wrong. There was the microphone itself, a unique DIN to XLR cable through the windshield, a special 7 way XLR cable to the matrix box, the matrix box itself and a breakout cable. If any part failed you were left speechless, or at least the actors were left speechless. Furthermore the matrix box needed two fairly hefty feeds of phantom power, drawing about 10mA each, which was not always available from every mixer or recorder. If I were to have a reliable microphone, I needed a spare for each part and that's why I bought two systems. >> >> The biggest drawback for me was that the 7 XLR way cable between the windshield and matrix box carried unbalanced signals, making the system become an excellent radio receiver. I was doing a film in stereo and one day the camera was put on a Steadicam with RF focussing. The focus puller's transmitter interfered badly with both Neumanns and rendered them unusable which meant that I had to revert to mono coverage with a different microphone. I also had issues when filming near a Police transmitter tower which rendered my 191's unusable. >> >> When I was using an RSM 190 in the BBC, a boom operator diligently removed the foam windshield after somebody splashed liquid on it, the microphone was fine and it was left standing up on a short Panamic boom pole while the windshield was being dried. Somebody knocked it over and the RSM 190 fell head first onto the concrete floor and smashed apart. It looked like the exploded view in a maintenance handbook. The parts were taken back to base in a zip-lock bag. >> >> Alan Taylor >> >> >> >> On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 13:26, terrymeadowcroft via Tech1 > wrote: >> >>> (sorry, forgot to send a copy to the forum) >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: terrymeadowcroft >>> To: Chris Woolf >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 1:24 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. >>> >>> Hi Chris >>> >>> As you know, I spent much of my lovely life in steamy jungles and in places like Florida where there are lots of heavy duty air coolers and a very damp, hot climate. At that time we had, at YTV, a lovely stereo microphone produced by Neumann, the RSM 191. >>> >>> We landed in West Virginia half an hour before dashing to the first location, got the gear up and running and within 10 minutes I had to get the hair drier on the mic and its control box to get rid of the well known sound of high impedance break down. This did not go down well! >>> >>> During my fil;ming days I did give thanks at the shrine of Sennheiser RF mics., especially when I did four series of seven programmes each, of a thing called O'Shea's Big Adventure (Ch4 and Animal Planet), which took us to many unpronounceable countries, many in jungle conditions searching out quaint reptiles and snakes, and, er, things. Nothing would have convinced me to use anything but RF-principle mics. >>> >>> Quite unlike working in studios, the mics we took to unpredictable conditions had to be reliable when running around miles from the nearest mains socket in which to plug the hair drier, and the snakes and reptiles wouldn't wait for us to be ready! >>> >>> I hesitate to mention the time when we did a long interview in a house somewhere in swamp land, Louisiana, and there came a thunderstorm outside which found the box left open containing a Sennheiser MKH 816 rifle mic. (we used them a lot in those days - brilliant mics.) left OPEN, though, oops! I was assistant on that job, and I didn't mention the mic.-in-a-pool to the recordist, just dried it out on a radiator overnight, and used it the very next day. Iyt had actually been under water! >>> >>> We needed mics. which didn't require prayers to ensure they gave pretty well guaranteed results. >>> >>> I recall at one IPS Wood Norton weekends, the really nice Schoeps man defending his mics when I was singing the praises of the Sennheisers. I asked him how I could guarantee the Schoeps, which of course are top mics., would be jungle-reliable and he said he would recommend having the mics. serviced prior to using them in damp conditions. >>> >>> I lived then in a world where mics. need to be ready to go constantly, and regular servicing was neither practicable in hurried schedules, nor affordable. >>> >>> The RF principle mics. handled the rough and tumble of practical film work outstandingly well. I think as far from entirely incidental - it was crucial. >>> >>> Now DAT was a different matter. That DID need prayers! >>> >>> Terry >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Chris Woolf via Tech1 >>> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 12:04 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. >>> >>> A useful piece of history - thank you. >>> >>> That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement was probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like mad and then attenuating everything back down again. >>> >>> There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high impedance transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily available when it was designed. The benefits of the technology working beautifully in steamy jungles was entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a prayer to it over the years. >>> >>> Chris Woolf >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>>> The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. What this meant in reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic ranges. If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without altering the pre-set channel gain control. >>>> >>>> This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom and the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. >>>> >>>> Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. >>>> >>>> Alan Taylor >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 > wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. >>>>> >>>>> Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. >>>>> >>>>> It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} >>>>> >>>>> Chris Woolf >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>>>> www.avast.com >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Wed Jun 12 17:00:42 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:00:42 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Pye desks In-Reply-To: <3cd7aee5-dd5e-f537-3d91-a79ce3ea56f0@btinternet.com> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7ffb39fb-a641-9045-0598-fa2bd451171b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <3cd7aee5-dd5e-f537-3d91-a79ce3ea56f0@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <4F7F6EE7-079C-4548-985C-EF3AC20B286C@mac.com> When you say ?dropped?, do you mean dropped, or just lowered, Dave? Mike G > On 12 Jun 2019, at 20:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > > The similar desk from TC1 was dropped from the gallery window onto the studio floor and Joe Driver collected some useful bits! It was about the time that a lot of gear and personal items were given a 'Foster' home (unofficially, of course!), Joe panicked and went to see the hierarchy and got an amnesty for the stuff he had 'borrowed'. Cheers, Dave > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From waresound at msn.com Wed Jun 12 17:30:11 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 22:30:11 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <7B10E618-FA60-4180-B44C-73BEFDFF96DF@btinternet.com> References: <77352F52-5F2D-4910-9049-08150F1ECB9B@me.com> <27c3f98e-53db-9acf-160e-6d21b2b4b9b3@chriswoolf.co.uk>, <7B10E618-FA60-4180-B44C-73BEFDFF96DF@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Dave Denness will bear witness to the fact that year after year we used to rig a pair of MKH416 on the Wimbledon Media Centre roof for concourse fx, plus another pair in the Ctr Ct umpire?s chair, and leave them there for the entire fortnight, and they never stopped working provided the cable joins weren?t lying in a puddle. As you know it can rain hard in June! Also, one year, the riggers ran a multi up onto the museum roof, and we were astonished to hear audio down it before we?d been up to rig any mics. It turned out that there had been a KM84 in a D24 windshield left dangling up there for a whole year, and it was still working! A bit crackly though to be fair, so I removed the capsule, washed the rest of it under a tap and dried it out thoroughly, and lo, it was as good as new. Alongside my own 416 I have an MKH8060, which is indeed an incredibly good mic. My Sony PCM2000 DAT, bought new in 1986, still works perfectly, and uses an NP1 camera battery which is still available today. Never needed or wanted more than two tracks in those days. Love and use a Zoom F8n these days. Using all of its eight tracks this week. Times have changed! By the time Digibeta had barely gained acceptance, Sony were already looking at Blu-ray (XDCAM). Tape was on the way out. Now both are a thing of the past. In my Hasselblad-toting days, I had a 70mm camera back that took 70mm perforated film stock. Best, Nick. Sent from my iPad (PS, some weird line length issue going on here that seems to have been inherited from the message it?s replying to). On 12 Jun 2019, at 22:36, Roger E Long via Tech1 > wrote: Only had a MKH fail once in hi humidity And that was in a monsoon on the Brahmaputra Also it was a MKH30, with the capsule open on two sides The TFS RSMs were a disaster, even after mods Classic MKH ,RF capsules, were more pragmatic and equalled Neumann SQ imho The MKH 800 is a cracker As for DAT, don?t get me started?? Sony should have offered a 4 track digital recorder using DigiBeta tape stock and camera batteries However Japanese hive minds don?t think like that, even after consultation. Roger On 12 Jun 2019, at 18:00, Chris Woolf via Tech1 > wrote: The RSMs were a nightmare to almost everyone, and privately Neumann will admit they wished they had never made them. The mics suffered from damp, they suffered those RF problems, they suffered far too many interconnection points, they were forever going wrong electrically, and they suffered mechanically from the internal rubber cushions changing shape, contributing to all sorts of mysterious clunks. But in the studio... no manufacturer has been able to better the Berliners. Chris Woolf On 12/06/2019 17:26, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: I bought two RSM 191 microphones, they cost a fortune but sounded fabulous and the off-mic pick up was beautifully clean, but nicely attenuated. I had previously worked with the RMS 190 too and greatly impressed by it. The biggest problem was that there were too many ways for them to go wrong. There was the microphone itself, a unique DIN to XLR cable through the windshield, a special 7 way XLR cable to the matrix box, the matrix box itself and a breakout cable. If any part failed you were left speechless, or at least the actors were left speechless. Furthermore the matrix box needed two fairly hefty feeds of phantom power, drawing about 10mA each, which was not always available from every mixer or recorder. If I were to have a reliable microphone, I needed a spare for each part and that's why I bought two systems. The biggest drawback for me was that the 7 XLR way cable between the windshield and matrix box carried unbalanced signals, making the system become an excellent radio receiver. I was doing a film in stereo and one day the camera was put on a Steadicam with RF focussing. The focus puller's transmitter interfered badly with both Neumanns and rendered them unusable which meant that I had to revert to mono coverage with a different microphone. I also had issues when filming near a Police transmitter tower which rendered my 191's unusable. When I was using an RSM 190 in the BBC, a boom operator diligently removed the foam windshield after somebody splashed liquid on it, the microphone was fine and it was left standing up on a short Panamic boom pole while the windshield was being dried. Somebody knocked it over and the RSM 190 fell head first onto the concrete floor and smashed apart. It looked like the exploded view in a maintenance handbook. The parts were taken back to base in a zip-lock bag. Alan Taylor On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 13:26, terrymeadowcroft via Tech1 > wrote: (sorry, forgot to send a copy to the forum) ----- Original Message ----- From: terrymeadowcroft To: Chris Woolf Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. Hi Chris As you know, I spent much of my lovely life in steamy jungles and in places like Florida where there are lots of heavy duty air coolers and a very damp, hot climate. At that time we had, at YTV, a lovely stereo microphone produced by Neumann, the RSM 191. We landed in West Virginia half an hour before dashing to the first location, got the gear up and running and within 10 minutes I had to get the hair drier on the mic and its control box to get rid of the well known sound of high impedance break down. This did not go down well! During my fil;ming days I did give thanks at the shrine of Sennheiser RF mics., especially when I did four series of seven programmes each, of a thing called O'Shea's Big Adventure (Ch4 and Animal Planet), which took us to many unpronounceable countries, many in jungle conditions searching out quaint reptiles and snakes, and, er, things. Nothing would have convinced me to use anything but RF-principle mics. Quite unlike working in studios, the mics we took to unpredictable conditions had to be reliable when running around miles from the nearest mains socket in which to plug the hair drier, and the snakes and reptiles wouldn't wait for us to be ready! I hesitate to mention the time when we did a long interview in a house somewhere in swamp land, Louisiana, and there came a thunderstorm outside which found the box left open containing a Sennheiser MKH 816 rifle mic. (we used them a lot in those days - brilliant mics.) left OPEN, though, oops! I was assistant on that job, and I didn't mention the mic.-in-a-pool to the recordist, just dried it out on a radiator overnight, and used it the very next day. Iyt had actually been under water! We needed mics. which didn't require prayers to ensure they gave pretty well guaranteed results. I recall at one IPS Wood Norton weekends, the really nice Schoeps man defending his mics when I was singing the praises of the Sennheisers. I asked him how I could guarantee the Schoeps, which of course are top mics., would be jungle-reliable and he said he would recommend having the mics. serviced prior to using them in damp conditions. I lived then in a world where mics. need to be ready to go constantly, and regular servicing was neither practicable in hurried schedules, nor affordable. The RF principle mics. handled the rough and tumble of practical film work outstandingly well. I think as far from entirely incidental - it was crucial. Now DAT was a different matter. That DID need prayers! Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Woolf via Tech1 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. A useful piece of history - thank you. That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement was probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like mad and then attenuating everything back down again. There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high impedance transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily available when it was designed. The benefits of the technology working beautifully in steamy jungles was entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a prayer to it over the years. Chris Woolf On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. What this meant in reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic ranges. If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without altering the pre-set channel gain control. This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom and the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. Alan Taylor On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 > wrote: On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} Chris Woolf ________________________________ [Avast logo] This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ________________________________ -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Wed Jun 12 17:44:03 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:44:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: References: <77352F52-5F2D-4910-9049-08150F1ECB9B@me.com> <27c3f98e-53db-9acf-160e-6d21b2b4b9b3@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7B10E618-FA60-4180-B44C-73BEFDFF96DF@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <20E3CBCC-4332-4ABE-AC98-1799BE14718F@mac.com> To expand the theme ~ how do the recently publicised acoustic cameras work? Apparently the Department of Transport is initiating a trial of seven months duration, in an effort to combat motor bike and sports car noise pollution ~ something I?ve been campaigning about locally for a while. Mike G > On 12 Jun 2019, at 23:30, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > Dave Denness will bear witness to the fact that year after year we used to rig a pair of MKH416 > on the Wimbledon Media Centre roof for concourse fx, plus another pair in the Ctr Ct umpire?s chair, and leave them there for the > entire fortnight, and they never stopped working provided the cable joins weren?t lying in a puddle. As you know it can rain hard in June! > Also, one year, the riggers ran a multi up onto the museum roof, and we were astonished to > hear audio down it before we?d been up to rig any mics. It turned out that there had > been a KM84 in a D24 windshield left dangling up there for a whole year, and it was still working! > A bit crackly though to be fair, so I removed the capsule, washed the rest of it under a tap and dried it out > thoroughly, and lo, it was as good as new. > Alongside my own 416 I have an MKH8060, which is indeed an incredibly good mic. > My Sony PCM2000 DAT, bought new in 1986, still works perfectly, and uses an NP1 camera battery > which is still available today. Never needed or wanted more than two tracks in those days. > > Love and use a Zoom F8n these days. Using all of its eight tracks this week. Times have changed! > By the time Digibeta had barely gained acceptance, Sony were already looking at Blu-ray (XDCAM). Tape was on the way out. Now both are a thing of the past. > > In my Hasselblad-toting days, I had a 70mm camera back that took 70mm perforated film stock. > Best, > Nick. > Sent from my iPad > (PS, some weird line length issue going on here that seems to have been inherited from the message it?s replying to). > On 12 Jun 2019, at 22:36, Roger E Long via Tech1 > wrote: > >> Only had a MKH fail once in hi humidity >> And that was in a monsoon on the Brahmaputra >> Also it was a MKH30, with the capsule open on two sides >> The TFS RSMs were a disaster, even after mods >> Classic MKH ,RF capsules, were more pragmatic and equalled Neumann SQ imho >> The MKH 800 is a cracker >> As for DAT, don?t get me started?? >> Sony should have offered a 4 track digital recorder using DigiBeta tape stock and camera batteries >> However Japanese hive minds don?t think like that, even after consultation. >> >> Roger >> >>> On 12 Jun 2019, at 18:00, Chris Woolf via Tech1 > wrote: >>> >>> The RSMs were a nightmare to almost everyone, and privately Neumann will admit they wished they had never made them. >>> >>> The mics suffered from damp, they suffered those RF problems, they suffered far too many interconnection points, they were forever going wrong electrically, and they suffered mechanically from the internal rubber cushions changing shape, contributing to all sorts of mysterious clunks. >>> >>> But in the studio... no manufacturer has been able to better the Berliners. >>> >>> Chris Woolf >>> >>> >>> On 12/06/2019 17:26, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>>> I bought two RSM 191 microphones, they cost a fortune but sounded fabulous and the off-mic pick up was beautifully clean, but nicely attenuated. I had previously worked with the RMS 190 too and greatly impressed by it. The biggest problem was that there were too many ways for them to go wrong. There was the microphone itself, a unique DIN to XLR cable through the windshield, a special 7 way XLR cable to the matrix box, the matrix box itself and a breakout cable. If any part failed you were left speechless, or at least the actors were left speechless. Furthermore the matrix box needed two fairly hefty feeds of phantom power, drawing about 10mA each, which was not always available from every mixer or recorder. If I were to have a reliable microphone, I needed a spare for each part and that's why I bought two systems. >>>> >>>> The biggest drawback for me was that the 7 XLR way cable between the windshield and matrix box carried unbalanced signals, making the system become an excellent radio receiver. I was doing a film in stereo and one day the camera was put on a Steadicam with RF focussing. The focus puller's transmitter interfered badly with both Neumanns and rendered them unusable which meant that I had to revert to mono coverage with a different microphone. I also had issues when filming near a Police transmitter tower which rendered my 191's unusable. >>>> >>>> When I was using an RSM 190 in the BBC, a boom operator diligently removed the foam windshield after somebody splashed liquid on it, the microphone was fine and it was left standing up on a short Panamic boom pole while the windshield was being dried. Somebody knocked it over and the RSM 190 fell head first onto the concrete floor and smashed apart. It looked like the exploded view in a maintenance handbook. The parts were taken back to base in a zip-lock bag. >>>> >>>> Alan Taylor >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 13:26, terrymeadowcroft via Tech1 > wrote: >>>> >>>>> (sorry, forgot to send a copy to the forum) >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: terrymeadowcroft >>>>> To: Chris Woolf >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 1:24 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. >>>>> >>>>> Hi Chris >>>>> >>>>> As you know, I spent much of my lovely life in steamy jungles and in places like Florida where there are lots of heavy duty air coolers and a very damp, hot climate. At that time we had, at YTV, a lovely stereo microphone produced by Neumann, the RSM 191. >>>>> >>>>> We landed in West Virginia half an hour before dashing to the first location, got the gear up and running and within 10 minutes I had to get the hair drier on the mic and its control box to get rid of the well known sound of high impedance break down. This did not go down well! >>>>> >>>>> During my fil;ming days I did give thanks at the shrine of Sennheiser RF mics., especially when I did four series of seven programmes each, of a thing called O'Shea's Big Adventure (Ch4 and Animal Planet), which took us to many unpronounceable countries, many in jungle conditions searching out quaint reptiles and snakes, and, er, things. Nothing would have convinced me to use anything but RF-principle mics. >>>>> >>>>> Quite unlike working in studios, the mics we took to unpredictable conditions had to be reliable when running around miles from the nearest mains socket in which to plug the hair drier, and the snakes and reptiles wouldn't wait for us to be ready! >>>>> >>>>> I hesitate to mention the time when we did a long interview in a house somewhere in swamp land, Louisiana, and there came a thunderstorm outside which found the box left open containing a Sennheiser MKH 816 rifle mic. (we used them a lot in those days - brilliant mics.) left OPEN, though, oops! I was assistant on that job, and I didn't mention the mic.-in-a-pool to the recordist, just dried it out on a radiator overnight, and used it the very next day. Iyt had actually been under water! >>>>> >>>>> We needed mics. which didn't require prayers to ensure they gave pretty well guaranteed results. >>>>> >>>>> I recall at one IPS Wood Norton weekends, the really nice Schoeps man defending his mics when I was singing the praises of the Sennheisers. I asked him how I could guarantee the Schoeps, which of course are top mics., would be jungle-reliable and he said he would recommend having the mics. serviced prior to using them in damp conditions. >>>>> >>>>> I lived then in a world where mics. need to be ready to go constantly, and regular servicing was neither practicable in hurried schedules, nor affordable. >>>>> >>>>> The RF principle mics. handled the rough and tumble of practical film work outstandingly well. I think as far from entirely incidental - it was crucial. >>>>> >>>>> Now DAT was a different matter. That DID need prayers! >>>>> >>>>> Terry >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Chris Woolf via Tech1 >>>>> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 12:04 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. >>>>> >>>>> A useful piece of history - thank you. >>>>> >>>>> That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement was probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like mad and then attenuating everything back down again. >>>>> There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high impedance transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily available when it was designed. The benefits of the technology working beautifully in steamy jungles was entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a prayer to it over the years. >>>>> >>>>> Chris Woolf >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. What this meant in reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic ranges. If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without altering the pre-set channel gain control. >>>>>> >>>>>> This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom and the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. >>>>>> >>>>>> Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. >>>>>> >>>>>> Alan Taylor >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>>>> I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris Woolf >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>>>>>> www.avast.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Wed Jun 12 17:45:20 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 22:45:20 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <60cf9d94-02d9-7825-db32-cef334ddb61a@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7ffb39fb-a641-9045-0598-fa2bd451171b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <60cf9d94-02d9-7825-db32-cef334ddb61a@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: By the way, there?s something I think I ought to tell you! [image1.jpeg] Sent from my iPad On 12 Jun 2019, at 21:53, John Howell via Tech1 > wrote: Yes the Pye 4060 limiter/compressor was a very clever device, when the signal reached the set threshold it was gated at 250KHz to remove energy. The subjective results were much more acceptable than the usual 'side-chain' variety. John H. On 12/06/2019 20:26, Barry Bonner via Tech1 wrote: Ah! The good old Pye desk?..! We had a pair of Pye limiters in TC5 for many years and even took them abroad. Barry. This Pye desk was removed from the TV Theatre during its refurbishment and installed in Golders Green Hippodrome. On 12 Jun 2019, at 12:04, Chris Woolf via Tech1 > wrote: A useful piece of history - thank you. That would be the Pye transistorised desks? I think the early ones struggled to keep the noise low, so this variable gain arrangement was probably a clever way to do that - rather than amplifying like mad and then attenuating everything back down again. There were several other very ingenious engineering approaches that mostly went unnoticed, necessitated by the limitations of technology. The (Sennheiser) RF capacitor mic only came about because very high impedance transistor circuitry for portable mics wasn't easily available when it was designed. The benefits of the technology working beautifully in steamy jungles was entirely incidental, even if countless recordists have said a prayer to it over the years. Chris Woolf On 12/06/2019 11:32, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: The final generation of black & white OB scanners had Pye sound desks. One unusual feature of those desks was that the quadrant fader controlled the gain of the microphone input pre-amplifier itself rather than the more usual arrangement where a pre-set microphone preamplifier stage is followed by a fader which then attenuates the signal leaving that pre-amp. What this meant in reality was that those Pye desks could cope with astonishing dynamic ranges. If you moved the fader just a tiny bit off the backstop, it could comfortably cope with an incredibly high level and if you fade all the way up, it would provide plenty of gain for quieter inputs, all without altering the pre-set channel gain control. This extreme dynamic range was a feature which was largely taken for granted and nobody gave it a thought until newer scanners were equipped with Neve desks whereupon people started experiencing audio distortion during situations such as goals in football matches. Supervisors had to be reminded of the concept of limited headroom and the importance of setting up the pre-set gain on Neve desks with more care than they previously had been accustomed to on Pye desks. Pye limiters were much loved too and could handle massive overmods. The Pye limiters remained in use long after other Pye audio equipment was consigned to the scrap heap. Alan Taylor On 12 Jun 2019, at 12 Jun . 10:38, Chris Woolf via Tech1 > wrote: On 12/06/2019 10:15, Nick Way via Tech1 wrote: I remember being shown two rows of jacks in the Apparatus Room behind Pres B. Same lines but one row had the mic amps. Dick Green explained that line level was usually delivered from the snare mic! It always surprises people that many mics can deliver quite staggering levels, given the necessary acoustic input. Even an insensitive dynamic mic stuck close to something like a snare can produce narrow peaks that can touch 3 on a PPM. When it comes to beefy-output powered mics, such as the infamous MKH416, these can perfectly easily peak 5 (+4dBu) before they start to distort. It does rather make a nonsense of the term "mic level";} Chris Woolf ________________________________ [Avast logo] This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image1.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 785699 bytes Desc: image1.jpeg URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Wed Jun 12 18:13:44 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 00:13:44 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Pye desks In-Reply-To: <4F7F6EE7-079C-4548-985C-EF3AC20B286C@mac.com> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7ffb39fb-a641-9045-0598-fa2bd451171b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <3cd7aee5-dd5e-f537-3d91-a79ce3ea56f0@btinternet.com> <4F7F6EE7-079C-4548-985C-EF3AC20B286C@mac.com> Message-ID: <461dc265-75bd-d241-35f7-7682424c9f8e@btinternet.com> The word used, when I was told about it, was 'thrown'! I think that your version is more likely since there was great care taken of the lino on the studio floor. Cheers, Dave From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Wed Jun 12 18:21:07 2019 From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 00:21:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Pye desks In-Reply-To: <461dc265-75bd-d241-35f7-7682424c9f8e@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Should only be on the lino placed or thrown If it's feet were in soft sole shoes. (For which it could claim an allowance)? Paul Thackray PGT Media Consulting Ltd. 07802 243979 Mail;?paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Web;?http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk Linkedin;???http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746 IMDB;?http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/ sent from my BlackBerry?the most secure mobile device?via the O2 Network ? Original Message ? From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Sent: 13 June 2019 00:14 To: mibridge at mac.com; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Reply to: dave.mdv at btinternet.com Subject: Re: [Tech1] Pye desks The word used, when I was told about it, was 'thrown'! I think that your version is more likely since there was great care taken of the lino on the studio floor. Cheers, Dave -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From geoffletch at gmail.com Thu Jun 13 02:29:58 2019 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:29:58 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Looks like Don Mcquiston partly obscured by the viewfinder hood? G On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 18:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 < tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, and > this photo which I haven't seen before - > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: amjaicpiihklkkgn.png Type: image/png Size: 416453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Thu Jun 13 03:26:53 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 09:26:53 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes ? that?s definitely Don McQuistan. I feel I should be able to put a name to the chap on Don?s right but it won?t come to me. Dave Newbitt. From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:29 AM To: Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Looks like Don Mcquiston partly obscured by the viewfinder hood? G On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 18:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, and this photo which I haven't seen before - -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: amjaicpiihklkkgn.png Type: image/png Size: 416453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rogerbunce at btinternet.com Thu Jun 13 07:11:10 2019 From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 12:11:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] Pye desks In-Reply-To: <4F7F6EE7-079C-4548-985C-EF3AC20B286C@mac.com> References: <001601d51df8$ae6a61c0$0b3f2540$@talktalk.net> <5cfbc20c.1c69fb81.efd26.6d81@mx.google.com> <38A65C7C-9371-4628-A989-6025F8AC9D70@mac.com> <964a9e1b-4567-6ca2-182c-86649a35fd15@btinternet.com> <2126262375.386795.1560330901788@email.ionos.co.uk> <20bd08a3-6148-1030-c0bb-8e7f075ae4f5@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7ffb39fb-a641-9045-0598-fa2bd451171b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <3cd7aee5-dd5e-f537-3d91-a79ce3ea56f0@btinternet.com> <4F7F6EE7-079C-4548-985C-EF3AC20B286C@mac.com> Message-ID: <778308419.1354130.1560427870073@mail.yahoo.com> And when you say 'Foster' Home, Dave, is this a reference to Neil Foster? luv, Rog. On Wednesday, 12 June 2019, 23:01:09 BST, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: When you say ?dropped?, do you mean dropped, or just lowered, Dave? Mike G > On 12 Jun 2019, at 20:44, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > > The similar desk from TC1 was dropped from the gallery window onto the studio floor and Joe Driver collected some useful bits! It was about the time that a lot of gear and personal items were given a 'Foster' home (unofficially, of course!), Joe panicked and went to see the hierarchy and got an amnesty for the stuff he had 'borrowed'. Cheers, Dave > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billjenkin67 at gmail.com Thu Jun 13 11:39:34 2019 From: billjenkin67 at gmail.com (Bill Jenkin) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 17:39:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Geoff Hawkes' tribute to Alan Kerridge Message-ID: I am using the tech1 group to try and keep the number of emails low on the 'announce' group. I have also not received the attachments on Geoff's emails. I would like to see the tribute so if we can think of a way round this it would be much appreciated. Bill J -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Thu Jun 13 14:12:35 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 20:12:35 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: [Announce] Tribute to Alan Kerridge with photos In-Reply-To: <002f01d52211$1f467fc0$5dd37f40$@gmail.com> References: <002f01d52211$1f467fc0$5dd37f40$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5799c2b6-7958-987d-a2dd-7e243ade678f@ntlworld.com> Here on tech 1 is Geoff's piece, below. I don't know how big the file is for Geoff's picture, but the system doesn't more than a few megabytes B -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [Announce] Tribute to Alan Kerridge with photos Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 18:55:01 +0100 From: geoff.hawkes134--- via Announce Reply-To: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com To: announce at tech-ops.co.uk Sorry to hear that the attachments weren?t getting through, so I?ve included them in the body of the message instead to see if they can creep under the wire JL Tribute to Alan Kerridge by Geoff Hawkes I?m one of Alan?s former BBC Television colleagues who worked in their studios in London for nearly fifty years, though not always with Alan or on the same shows. After he retired we kept in touch with an occasional letter or phone call and I visited him a few times after he fell ill. These are my thoughts together with those of others who knew him, some of whom are here today. Alan, as everyone agrees was a private man who seldom spoke about himself. He had the often pensive air of one who?d known much unhappiness his life, which I understand was the case. Alan was a thinker, his thoughts ran deep and although he was perhaps slow to engage in chatter, he would sometimes comment amusingly afterwards on what was being said, with ?Did you know?? when the subject had long been dropped. Alan was a familiar figure at Television Centre and worked on the full range of programmes in his time, from Light Entertainment shows going back to the Billy Cotton Band Show in the late fifties, Morecambe & Wise in the sixties and seventies; comedies like ?Dad?s Army,? ?It Ain?t Half Hot Mum? or ?Are You Being Served??; dramas like the Shakespeare series, Z-Cars or Dixon of Dock Green and music shows such as Shirley Bassey or Top of the Pops, as well as the more bread & butter stuff like Playschool, Blue Peter or That?s Life with Esther Rantzen, that we all did. He had his own style which I?m told included a liking for out of focus foreground shots as shown in a clip of Jimi Hendrix on a Lulu show on BBC4 recently, which rolled into ?Guitar Heroes? starting on a recognisable Alan Kerridge shot. Alan loved helping people and John Vincent remembers him as a quiet but friendly guy who was always helpful to him as a young trainee. Paul Kay said what a support he was to him as his number two. In odd moments between scenes, Alan, an inveterate smoker could be seen rolling a cigarette and having a quiet puff in a corner where permitted, while offering some considered comments on matters of the day, or retelling a funny story. Alan was nothing without humour and it was never at someone else?s expense or in bad taste. That humour was also expressed in the cartoons he drew and Dave Mundy has one from the sixties when they were on a course at the BBC?s Engineering Training Department in Evesham. Another of his colleagues, Peter Leverick said, ?Some of Alan?s artwork was quite striking and very descriptive and was often a commentary on the programme he was working on. Clearly it was a kind of therapy that he found good to occupy his thoughts with when idle. His humour was dry and always delivered with a wry smile.? Alan produced artwork of many sorts, from watercolour to pen or brush and ink. I had a card from him every Christmas with a drawing typical of his style, a winter scene of country fields with a half hidden house and a stormy sky and have a couple with me. I know some of you received similar. I believe he was an Associate of the Royal Academy of Art and in his more active days, enjoyed visiting art galleries in London. I think he could?ve given Sister Wendy a run for her money and that they?d have got on well. Alan was a keen photographer and according to John Smith was into Mamiya medium format roll-film rangefinder cameras using 120 size roll film with huge negatives. Alan would develop and print his own films and he experimented with 3-D photography too. Later he went on to using a compact digital camera that I introduced him to and I know he was impressed with it. Alan?s other passion was for bicycles, of which he had several parked in various parts of his house and he loved going out for rides in the Surrey lanes and on the South Downs. He had his favourite routes and a partiality for taking cream teas at one of the churches open on Sunday afternoons. He gave me a book called ?That Tea Book? describing the best places round the country to get cups of tea - and I could believe he had been to them all. He also enjoyed going to the summer garden parties run by BBC man, Roger Davies who lived near him and sharing memories with old friends. Alan?s outings continued in winter and he would sometimes pitch a tent even in frost to enjoy a night or two away from it all. > From the adverts on television, one may think that the key to a happy life is in getting a new bed, a new kitchen or bathroom, shopping in the right store, going on a luxury cruise or lazing on a faraway beach. Alan was into none of those but was content much of the time with his own company at home in his garden growing flowers and vegetables and cooking a new recipe for dinner. At times when away from home, he liked nothing better than to visit the Pie and Eels caf? in Goldhawk Road in his native Shepherds Bush, which he described with great relish. He said it was long gone by the time he told me about it but there was another such place called Mandy?s in Chapel Street, Islington that still served it. Alan was a Londoner at heart and knew his way around town. I?m told by Kaye Brown who knew him through her husband Duncan (a celebrated Lighting Director at the BBC), that in his younger day Alan was very good looking and attracted the attention of one or two of her female friends at the after-show parties they attended. For reasons best known to himself, Alan declined their advances, which may have been because he had been rejected in love by a girl he was once engaged to and didn?t want to run that risk again. His sadness was further deepened by the loss of his brother, who tragically died of alcoholism, after which she said Alan became Tee-total and wouldn?t go into a bar again. It was on one of my visits to see Alan at the Beeches Care Home in the last two years of his life that he told me how his neighbour Trevor Pratt had found on IMDB (an online database related to films and television programmes), a credit that cited Alan as (Acting) Senior Cameraman on the 'Full Circle' episode of Doctor Who in 1980. We looked it up again while he was in hospital not long before he died and it gratified him greatly to know that he would be remembered in that way Before I finish, it?s right that I thank Trevor for all he did for Alan particularly in the last two years of his life, going well beyond the call of duty, acting on Alan?s behalf more like a son or a nephew. Sir, I salute you, you were the archetypal Good Neighbour and an example to us all. (Pause) I asked Alan once what he planned to do when he retired and his answer, without hesitation was that he would continue going out on his bike and eating cream teas till he died. Sadly, now those days are gone. Alan it is said was not a religious man. Though I never discussed the subject of God with him as I had with another of our colleagues, Peter Cleveley, Alan may have been of the same mind as Peter, whose belief was as he put it, that ?When I die, the Universe ceases,? a profound statement that needs time to comprehend. I end with the thought that whether like me you believe in an afterlife as described in the Bible, or that when we die, the Universe comes to an end?. according to that other Good Book, the Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, there is at the end of the Universe a rather fine caf?, with on the menu, I wouldn?t be surprised to find, a delicious offering of Pie & Eels, fresh in daily from the Thames, with generous servings of cream teas to follow. And that even now, Alan is headed that way on his bicycle, to meet up with his brother and those like Peter Cleveley, Roger Davis, Duncan Brown and Douglas Adams himself who?ve gone on before. (Facing coffin) In closing, I would simply like to say to Alan, ?So long old friend, thanks for everything, it?s been good to know you. Safe journey, we won?t forget you?? Geoff Hawkes I took these photos in 1999 after one of Roger Davis?s garden parties. When I was about to take the portrait, he said, ?Wait a minute while I give you the look,? at which point he looked down briefly, then up again with the expression you see here. He was not only a good photographer himself, but knew how he wanted it done by others. -- Announce mailing list Announce at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/announce_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Thu Jun 13 15:02:35 2019 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 21:02:35 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Tribute to Alan Kerridge, with two photos Message-ID: <003901d52222$f1ed4970$d5c7dc50$@gmail.com> Dear All, After many attempts to beat the filters on Announce, I've decided to abandon it and let anyone not included in Tech1 who'd like to see the photos contact me and I'll send to them individually. Meanwhile, I'm sending this to the more friendly Tech1 to see if that works as it's good to test the limits. After all pushing the limits was how we worked to our best, wasn't it? I will be submitting an edited version of the tribute for publication in Prospero with a photo, hopefully in time for the next edition. Geoff Hawkes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Alan Kerridge with bicycle in 1999 #20a.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1212666 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Alan Kerridge giving 'The Look' in 1999 #18a.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 873313 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Tribute to Alan Kerridge.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 22182 bytes Desc: not available URL: From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Thu Jun 13 16:02:27 2019 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 22:02:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Could it be Alan Ville SA1? Hibou. On 13/06/2019 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > Yes ? that?s definitely Don McQuistan. I feel I should be able to put > a name to the chap on Don?s right but it won?t come to me. > Dave Newbitt. > *From:* Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 > *Sent:* Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:29 AM > *To:* Bernard Newnham > *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge > Looks like Don Mcquiston partly obscured by the viewfinder hood? > G > On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 18:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > wrote: > > A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, > and this photo which I haven't seen before - > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: amjaicpiihklkkgn.png Type: image/png Size: 416453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Thu Jun 13 16:07:12 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 22:07:12 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Tribute to Alan Kerridge, with two photos In-Reply-To: <003901d52222$f1ed4970$d5c7dc50$@gmail.com> References: <003901d52222$f1ed4970$d5c7dc50$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54f8f454-3b1e-ff20-6ce9-77cb3187a50d@btinternet.com> As you say, the more friendly version, the pictures came through fine. Many thanks, Dave. From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Thu Jun 13 16:25:50 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 22:25:50 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Message-ID: On May 14th. I posted our STO 20 course photo which also included Duncan Brown, I was pleased to meet his widow at Alan's funeral as we had met when he brought her up to Evesham during the course. At the 'wake', one of Alan's few relatives brought two large folders containing a lot of his art work, including dozens of crew Christmas cards! There were many paintings and etchings and photos all destined for the skip! We kept the folders in the hope that someone might want some of the items. As I mentioned in my previous article, Alan had drawn a cartoon for the skittle team and signed it and gave it to me. In on of the folders I found the attached picture, uncoloured and unsigned but with subtle differences! I think it must have been a prototype which he re-drew and coloured later! What an incredible nice thing to do for us! Cheers, Dave -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Alikatz2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 414296 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Thu Jun 13 16:27:59 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 22:27:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Tribute to Alan Kerridge, with two photos In-Reply-To: <003901d52222$f1ed4970$d5c7dc50$@gmail.com> References: <003901d52222$f1ed4970$d5c7dc50$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1B963CCDFDA74E1A9443BF694CEC087A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> If at first......! The persistence was worth it ? great photos. ?The look? is absolutely definitive. I say that because, not having seen him for 40 years, it immediately hits me as the quintessential Alan that I remember. Both pleased and saddened to see it. Pleased for the reminder, saddened because seeing his image so full of life leaves me as unable as ever to grasp the fact that life ends and all the energy, the inventiveness, the achievements, the contribution are just snuffed out. Thanks Geoff, Dave N. From: geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 9:02 PM To: tech1 Subject: [Tech1] Tribute to Alan Kerridge, with two photos Dear All, After many attempts to beat the filters on Announce, I?ve decided to abandon it and let anyone not included in Tech1 who?d like to see the photos contact me and I?ll send to them individually. Meanwhile, I?m sending this to the more friendly Tech1 to see if that works as it?s good to test the limits. After all pushing the limits was how we worked to our best, wasn?t it? I will be submitting an edited version of the tribute for publication in Prospero with a photo, hopefully in time for the next edition. Geoff Hawkes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Thu Jun 13 17:00:39 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 23:00:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Tribute to Alan Kerridge, with two photos In-Reply-To: <003901d52222$f1ed4970$d5c7dc50$@gmail.com> References: <003901d52222$f1ed4970$d5c7dc50$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <733BABAF-650E-4392-A4A8-698D2A760AF9@mac.com> Geoff?s photos confirm that it was Alan who played me a binaural recording during an idle moment or three in Studio E Gallery. What I don?t think I said when I recounted the detail was that I didn?t know what I was about to listen to, but almost instantly realised that I had been at the same outdoor event, just from the atmosphere and surrounding noises and Alan can?t have been very far from where I was sitting! Mike G > On 13 Jun 2019, at 21:02, geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 wrote: > > Dear All, > After many attempts to beat the filters on Announce, I?ve decided to abandon it and let anyone not included in Tech1 who?d like to see the photos contact me and I?ll send to them individually. > Meanwhile, I?m sending this to the more friendly Tech1 to see if that works as it?s good to test the limits. After all pushing the limits was how we worked to our best, wasn?t it? > > I will be submitting an edited version of the tribute for publication in Prospero with a photo, hopefully in time for the next edition. > > Geoff Hawkes > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoffletch at gmail.com Thu Jun 13 17:29:27 2019 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 23:29:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don?t think it?s Alan. How about Verne Dyer? I feel I know the face but can?t really put a name to him. Geoff F On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 22:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > Could it be Alan Ville SA1? > > Hibou. > > > > On 13/06/2019 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > > Yes ? that?s definitely Don McQuistan. I feel I should be able to put a > name to the chap on Don?s right but it won?t come to me. > > Dave Newbitt. > > *From:* Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 > *Sent:* Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:29 AM > *To:* Bernard Newnham > *Cc:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge > > Looks like Don Mcquiston partly obscured by the viewfinder hood? > G > > On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 18:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 < > tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > >> A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, and >> this photo which I haven't seen before - >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > ------------------------------ > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: amjaicpiihklkkgn.png Type: image/png Size: 416453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From geoffletch at gmail.com Thu Jun 13 17:34:21 2019 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 23:34:21 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Tribute to Alan Kerridge, with two photos In-Reply-To: <733BABAF-650E-4392-A4A8-698D2A760AF9@mac.com> References: <003901d52222$f1ed4970$d5c7dc50$@gmail.com> <733BABAF-650E-4392-A4A8-698D2A760AF9@mac.com> Message-ID: Made it eventually Geoff! Good photos - worth the effort. A very good and moving eulogy too. Geoff F On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 23:01, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > Geoff?s photos confirm that it was Alan who played me a binaural recording > during an idle moment or three in Studio E Gallery. What I don?t think I > said when I recounted the detail was that I didn?t know what I was about to > listen to, but almost instantly realised that I had been at the same > outdoor event, just from the atmosphere and surrounding noises and Alan > can?t have been very far from where I was sitting! > > Mike G > > > On 13 Jun 2019, at 21:02, geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 < > tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > > Dear All, > After many attempts to beat the filters on Announce, I?ve decided to > abandon it and let anyone not included in Tech1 who?d like to see the > photos contact me and I?ll send to them individually. > Meanwhile, I?m sending this to the more friendly Tech1 to see if that > works as it?s good to test the limits. After all pushing the limits was how > we worked to our best, wasn?t it? > > I will be submitting an edited version of the tribute for publication in > Prospero with a photo, hopefully in time for the next edition. > > *Geoff Hawkes* > Look' in 1999 #18a.jpg>-- > > > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com Thu Jun 13 18:01:00 2019 From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 00:01:00 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Message-ID: Don't think it's me, Geoff, although I agree that's how I looked in those days. It is Don McQ, I'm pretty sure of that. Never seen that picture before, anyway.?Best wishes - Vern?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Date: 13/06/2019 23:29 (GMT+00:00) To: John Howell Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Don?t think it?s Alan. How about Verne Dyer? I feel I know the face but can?t really put a name to him.Geoff FOn Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 22:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Could it be Alan Ville SA1? Hibou. On 13/06/2019 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: Yes ? that?s definitely Don McQuistan. I feel I should be able to put a name to the chap on Don?s right but it won?t come to me. ? Dave Newbitt. ? From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:29 AM To: Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? Looks like Don Mcquiston partly obscured by the viewfinder hood? G ? On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 18:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, and this photo which I haven't seen before - -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: amjaicpiihklkkgn.png Type: image/png Size: 416453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com Fri Jun 14 03:01:19 2019 From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:01:19 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Message-ID: <3c6rvcver7hucodwx0mqmrae.1560499279241@email.android.com> Sent this last night, but it doesn't seem to have worked so I'm trying again. Sorry if it's repeated to you.? ?VSent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: "vernon.dyer" Date: 14/06/2019 00:01 (GMT+00:00) To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Don't think it's me, Geoff, although I agree that's how I looked in those days. It is Don McQ, I'm pretty sure of that. Never seen that picture before, anyway.?Best wishes - Vern?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Fri Jun 14 03:04:52 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:04:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6539C77D8C234EA3B7009C14256CFEA5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Chris Maurice suggested when I first raised this query that it might be John Milner. I rather agreed with that but find that my reply shows in the archive at 1628 yesterday but has not appeared in my inbox. Did anybody else see it? Dave Newbitt. From: vernon.dyer via Tech1 Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:01 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Don't think it's me, Geoff, although I agree that's how I looked in those days. It is Don McQ, I'm pretty sure of that. Never seen that picture before, anyway. Best wishes - Vern Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Date: 13/06/2019 23:29 (GMT+00:00) To: John Howell Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Don?t think it?s Alan. How about Verne Dyer? I feel I know the face but can?t really put a name to him. Geoff F On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 22:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Could it be Alan Ville SA1? Hibou. On 13/06/2019 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: Yes ? that?s definitely Don McQuistan. I feel I should be able to put a name to the chap on Don?s right but it won?t come to me. Dave Newbitt. From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:29 AM To: Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Looks like Don Mcquiston partly obscured by the viewfinder hood? G On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 18:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, and this photo which I haven't seen before - -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: amjaicpiihklkkgn.png Type: image/png Size: 416453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Fri Jun 14 03:09:11 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:09:11 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge In-Reply-To: <3c6rvcver7hucodwx0mqmrae.1560499279241@email.android.com> References: <3c6rvcver7hucodwx0mqmrae.1560499279241@email.android.com> Message-ID: <1D47B42CC79C4CEFA96E7CE94933E95A@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Hi Vernon, I?ve just posted a similar apparent hiccup regarding a post I made yesterday. Political instability beginning to affect all manner of things! Regards, Dave Newbitt. From: vernon.dyer via Tech1 Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 9:01 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Sent this last night, but it doesn't seem to have worked so I'm trying again. Sorry if it's repeated to you. V Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: "vernon.dyer" Date: 14/06/2019 00:01 (GMT+00:00) To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Don't think it's me, Geoff, although I agree that's how I looked in those days. It is Don McQ, I'm pretty sure of that. Never seen that picture before, anyway. Best wishes - Vern Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com Fri Jun 14 04:24:34 2019 From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 10:24:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge In-Reply-To: <6539C77D8C234EA3B7009C14256CFEA5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <6539C77D8C234EA3B7009C14256CFEA5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <772DB052-C067-451D-8942-17DD6C0A8C38@btinternet.com> Hi Dave, No, I didn?t see your email either but I agree with Chris that it looks like John Milner, that haircut?s the clue! Barry. On 14 Jun 2019, at 09:04, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > Chris Maurice suggested when I first raised this query that it might be John Milner. I rather agreed with that but find that my reply shows in the archive at 1628 yesterday but has not appeared in my inbox. Did anybody else see it? > > Dave Newbitt. > > From: vernon.dyer via Tech1 > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:01 AM > To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge > > > > Don't think it's me, Geoff, although I agree that's how I looked in those days. It is Don McQ, I'm pretty sure of that. Never seen that picture before, anyway. > > Best wishes - Vern > > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. > -------- Original message -------- > From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 > Date: 13/06/2019 23:29 (GMT+00:00) > To: John Howell > Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge > > Don?t think it?s Alan. How about Verne Dyer? I feel I know the face but can?t really put a name to him. > Geoff F > > On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 22:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > Could it be Alan Ville SA1? > > Hibou. > > > > On 13/06/2019 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >> Yes ? that?s definitely Don McQuistan. I feel I should be able to put a name to the chap on Don?s right but it won?t come to me. >> >> Dave Newbitt. >> >> From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 >> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:29 AM >> To: Bernard Newnham >> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge >> >> Looks like Don Mcquiston partly obscured by the viewfinder hood? >> G >> >> On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 18:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >> A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, and this photo which I haven't seen before - >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Fri Jun 14 04:31:34 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 10:31:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge In-Reply-To: <772DB052-C067-451D-8942-17DD6C0A8C38@btinternet.com> References: <6539C77D8C234EA3B7009C14256CFEA5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <772DB052-C067-451D-8942-17DD6C0A8C38@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Thanks Barry, Looks like we?re building a consensus here! Wonder what?s happening when a post shows in the archive but is apparently not distributed? Best wishes, Dave N. From: Barry Bonner Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 10:24 AM To: David Newbitt Cc: vernon.dyer ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Hi Dave, No, I didn?t see your email either but I agree with Chris that it looks like John Milner, that haircut?s the clue! Barry. On 14 Jun 2019, at 09:04, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: Chris Maurice suggested when I first raised this query that it might be John Milner. I rather agreed with that but find that my reply shows in the archive at 1628 yesterday but has not appeared in my inbox. Did anybody else see it? Dave Newbitt. From: vernon.dyer via Tech1 Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:01 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Don't think it's me, Geoff, although I agree that's how I looked in those days. It is Don McQ, I'm pretty sure of that. Never seen that picture before, anyway. Best wishes - Vern Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Date: 13/06/2019 23:29 (GMT+00:00) To: John Howell Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Don?t think it?s Alan. How about Verne Dyer? I feel I know the face but can?t really put a name to him. Geoff F On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 22:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Could it be Alan Ville SA1? Hibou. On 13/06/2019 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: Yes ? that?s definitely Don McQuistan. I feel I should be able to put a name to the chap on Don?s right but it won?t come to me. Dave Newbitt. From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:29 AM To: Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Looks like Don Mcquiston partly obscured by the viewfinder hood? G On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 18:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, and this photo which I haven't seen before - -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Fri Jun 14 04:33:23 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 10:33:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] attachments Message-ID: I've been looking at the settings in the two mailing lists, which are (were) different - Announce - Tech1 - At first glance it would seem that Announce will let you send anything, but when I toured around the forums a bit, it turns out that there's an unfixed bug, and you need to limit to a large size, in this case 100000kB, as in Tech1 I've changed Announce now, so we shouldn't have a repeat of Geoff's problem. Of course, it's very unusual thing, as mostly people are sending attachments on tech1. Also - as I've said before, you don't always get your own post back, even though Mailman is set to do so. Apparently Gmail, for one, has a fixed filter to stop that.? Don't know why. B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: announce.PNG Type: image/png Size: 35671 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: tech1.PNG Type: image/png Size: 39323 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Fri Jun 14 04:44:14 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 10:44:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Mailing lists in general Message-ID: Mailing lists, and email servers, are flaky old stuff.? GNU Mailman, which we use, is very old, but much used because it largely works.? I did and experiment with Dada Mail recently, using a few people here as guinea pigs. It works fine, but at the time I wasn't convinced enough to move fully to it. Another thing we could have is a forum, and indeed we did some long time back, but that requires people to access it - pull instead of push - and they have to register in the first place. I have to say that it was too much for some, so I abandoned it. All ideas are always gratefully accepted, as I'm not an authority on this stuff. B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com Fri Jun 14 06:06:29 2019 From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 12:06:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Message-ID: I thought it might be John Milner on the right, by the top cue-light. The height would be right, too (sorry, John!).Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: David Newbitt Date: 14/06/2019 09:04 (GMT+00:00) To: "vernon.dyer" , tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Chris Maurice suggested when I first raised this query that it might be John Milner. I rather agreed with that but find that my reply shows in the archive at 1628 yesterday but has not appeared in my inbox. Did anybody else see it? ? Dave Newbitt. ? From: vernon.dyer via Tech1 Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:01 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? ? ? Don't think it's me, Geoff, although I agree that's how I looked in those days. It is Don McQ, I'm pretty sure of that. Never seen that picture before, anyway. ? Best wishes - Vern ? Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Date: 13/06/2019 23:29 (GMT+00:00) To: John Howell Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? Don?t think it?s Alan. How about Verne Dyer? I feel I know the face but can?t really put a name to him. Geoff F ? On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 22:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Could it be Alan Ville SA1? Hibou. ? ? On 13/06/2019 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: Yes ? that?s definitely Don McQuistan. I feel I should be able to put a name to the chap on Don?s right but it won?t come to me. ? Dave Newbitt. ? From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:29 AM To: Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? Looks like Don Mcquiston partly obscured by the viewfinder hood? G ? On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 18:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, and this photo which I haven't seen before --- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: amjaicpiihklkkgn.png Type: image/png Size: 416453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Fri Jun 14 06:13:41 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 12:13:41 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6E125A53E99848C095707A1A68C6F17E@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Ah! Just when I was building confidence I?m now losing it!! Take your observation about height but kindness demands pointing out that Don was quite tall! Dave N. From: vernon.dyer Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:06 PM To: David Newbitt ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge I thought it might be John Milner on the right, by the top cue-light. The height would be right, too (sorry, John!). Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: David Newbitt Date: 14/06/2019 09:04 (GMT+00:00) To: "vernon.dyer" , tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Chris Maurice suggested when I first raised this query that it might be John Milner. I rather agreed with that but find that my reply shows in the archive at 1628 yesterday but has not appeared in my inbox. Did anybody else see it? Dave Newbitt. From: vernon.dyer via Tech1 Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:01 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Don't think it's me, Geoff, although I agree that's how I looked in those days. It is Don McQ, I'm pretty sure of that. Never seen that picture before, anyway. Best wishes - Vern Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Date: 13/06/2019 23:29 (GMT+00:00) To: John Howell Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Don?t think it?s Alan. How about Verne Dyer? I feel I know the face but can?t really put a name to him. Geoff F On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 22:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Could it be Alan Ville SA1? Hibou. On 13/06/2019 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: Yes ? that?s definitely Don McQuistan. I feel I should be able to put a name to the chap on Don?s right but it won?t come to me. Dave Newbitt. From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:29 AM To: Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Looks like Don Mcquiston partly obscured by the viewfinder hood? G On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 18:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, and this photo which I haven't seen before - -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: amjaicpiihklkkgn.png Type: image/png Size: 416453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From waresound at msn.com Fri Jun 14 06:30:23 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 11:30:23 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Do we know what became of John Milner? The last I heard of him, albeit a long time ago, he was a Technician on the Tonmeister course at UniS. But despite their close connections with Guildford Cathedral (and mine) over the years, no-one seems to know about him. Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 14 Jun 2019, at 12:07, vernon.dyer via Tech1 > wrote: I thought it might be John Milner on the right, by the top cue-light. The height would be right, too (sorry, John!). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: amjaicpiihklkkgn.png Type: image/png Size: 416453 bytes Desc: amjaicpiihklkkgn.png URL: From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com Fri Jun 14 07:29:01 2019 From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:29:01 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge In-Reply-To: <6E125A53E99848C095707A1A68C6F17E@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <6E125A53E99848C095707A1A68C6F17E@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: My wife thinks second from left back to camera is me. She obviously has more experience seeing me from that angle! The two dark figures on right backs to camera could be John Dailley and Dave Oakley. Hair and posture ring a bell. What was the event? John V On 14 Jun 2019, at 12:13, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > Ah! Just when I was building confidence I?m now losing it!! > > Take your observation about height but kindness demands pointing out that Don was quite tall! > > Dave N. > > From: vernon.dyer > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:06 PM > To: David Newbitt ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge > > > I thought it might be John Milner on the right, by the top cue-light. The height would be right, too (sorry, John!). > > > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. > -------- Original message -------- > From: David Newbitt > Date: 14/06/2019 09:04 (GMT+00:00) > To: "vernon.dyer" , tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge > > Chris Maurice suggested when I first raised this query that it might be John Milner. I rather agreed with that but find that my reply shows in the archive at 1628 yesterday but has not appeared in my inbox. Did anybody else see it? > > Dave Newbitt. > > From: vernon.dyer via Tech1 > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:01 AM > To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge > > > > Don't think it's me, Geoff, although I agree that's how I looked in those days. It is Don McQ, I'm pretty sure of that. Never seen that picture before, anyway. > > Best wishes - Vern > > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. > -------- Original message -------- > From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 > Date: 13/06/2019 23:29 (GMT+00:00) > To: John Howell > Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge > > Don?t think it?s Alan. How about Verne Dyer? I feel I know the face but can?t really put a name to him. > Geoff F > > On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 22:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > Could it be Alan Ville SA1? > > Hibou. > > > > On 13/06/2019 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >> Yes ? that?s definitely Don McQuistan. I feel I should be able to put a name to the chap on Don?s right but it won?t come to me. >> >> Dave Newbitt. >> >> From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 >> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:29 AM >> To: Bernard Newnham >> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge >> >> Looks like Don Mcquiston partly obscured by the viewfinder hood? >> G >> >> On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 18:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >> A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, and this photo which I haven't seen before - >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Fri Jun 14 07:31:44 2019 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:31:44 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge In-Reply-To: References: <6E125A53E99848C095707A1A68C6F17E@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: I?d go with John Dailley ? Graeme Wall > On 14 Jun 2019, at 13:29, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote: > > My wife thinks second from left back to camera is me. She obviously has more experience seeing me from that angle! > > The two dark figures on right backs to camera could be John Dailley and Dave Oakley. Hair and posture ring a bell. > > What was the event? > > John V > > > On 14 Jun 2019, at 12:13, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > >> Ah! Just when I was building confidence I?m now losing it!! >> >> Take your observation about height but kindness demands pointing out that Don was quite tall! >> >> Dave N. >> >> From: vernon.dyer >> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:06 PM >> To: David Newbitt ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge >> >> >> I thought it might be John Milner on the right, by the top cue-light. The height would be right, too (sorry, John!). >> >> >> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: David Newbitt >> Date: 14/06/2019 09:04 (GMT+00:00) >> To: "vernon.dyer" , tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge >> >> Chris Maurice suggested when I first raised this query that it might be John Milner. I rather agreed with that but find that my reply shows in the archive at 1628 yesterday but has not appeared in my inbox. Did anybody else see it? >> >> Dave Newbitt. >> >> From: vernon.dyer via Tech1 >> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:01 AM >> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge >> >> >> >> Don't think it's me, Geoff, although I agree that's how I looked in those days. It is Don McQ, I'm pretty sure of that. Never seen that picture before, anyway. >> >> Best wishes - Vern >> >> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 >> Date: 13/06/2019 23:29 (GMT+00:00) >> To: John Howell >> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge >> >> Don?t think it?s Alan. How about Verne Dyer? I feel I know the face but can?t really put a name to him. >> Geoff F >> >> On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 22:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >> Could it be Alan Ville SA1? >> >> Hibou. >> >> >> >> On 13/06/2019 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >>> Yes ? that?s definitely Don McQuistan. I feel I should be able to put a name to the chap on Don?s right but it won?t come to me. >>> >>> Dave Newbitt. >>> >>> From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 >>> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:29 AM >>> To: Bernard Newnham >>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge >>> >>> Looks like Don Mcquiston partly obscured by the viewfinder hood? >>> G >>> >>> On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 18:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >>> A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, and this photo which I haven't seen before - >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Jun 14 07:54:04 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:54:04 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] John Milner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5d0398ed.1c69fb81.e7c19.9afb@mx.google.com> The last time I saw John Milner was when working on The Naked Civil Servant for Thames, we used his little studio in London to record John Hurt?s narration voice-overs. That would have been in 1975. An Internet search shows nothing about Milnersound, or John Milner. There is an entry for John Milner but that?s not our John. Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Nick Ware via Tech1 Sent: 14 June 2019 12:47 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Do we know what became of John Milner? The last I heard of him, albeit a long time ago, he was a Technician on the Tonmeister course at UniS. But despite their close connections with Guildford Cathedral (and mine) over the years, no-one seems to know about him. Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 14 Jun 2019, at 12:07, vernon.dyer via Tech1 wrote: I thought it might be John Milner on the right, by the top cue-light. The height would be right, too (sorry, John!). --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com Fri Jun 14 08:34:21 2019 From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 14:34:21 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Message-ID: <0jqqmrmfufdhvillvgnro15c.1560519261911@email.android.com> Fair comment,? David.? The more I look at that picture, the more I wonder if it was me on the left. If not, I don't know who it could be, but as I say I have no recollection of the moment.?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: David Newbitt Date: 14/06/2019 12:13 (GMT+00:00) To: "vernon.dyer" , tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Ah! Just when I was building confidence I?m now losing it!! ? Take your observation about height but kindness demands pointing out that Don was quite tall! ? Dave N. ? From: vernon.dyer Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:06 PM To: David Newbitt ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? ? I thought it might be John Milner on the right, by the top cue-light. The height would be right, too (sorry, John!). ? ? Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: David Newbitt Date: 14/06/2019 09:04 (GMT+00:00) To: "vernon.dyer" , tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? Chris Maurice suggested when I first raised this query that it might be John Milner. I rather agreed with that but find that my reply shows in the archive at 1628 yesterday but has not appeared in my inbox. Did anybody else see it? ? Dave Newbitt. ? From: vernon.dyer via Tech1 Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:01 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? ? ? Don't think it's me, Geoff, although I agree that's how I looked in those days. It is Don McQ, I'm pretty sure of that. Never seen that picture before, anyway. ? Best wishes - Vern ? Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Date: 13/06/2019 23:29 (GMT+00:00) To: John Howell Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? Don?t think it?s Alan. How about Verne Dyer? I feel I know the face but can?t really put a name to him. Geoff F ? On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 22:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Could it be Alan Ville SA1? Hibou. ? ? On 13/06/2019 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: Yes ? that?s definitely Don McQuistan. I feel I should be able to put a name to the chap on Don?s right but it won?t come to me. ? Dave Newbitt. ? From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:29 AM To: Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? Looks like Don Mcquiston partly obscured by the viewfinder hood? G ? On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 18:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, and this photo which I haven't seen before --- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: amjaicpiihklkkgn.png Type: image/png Size: 416453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com Fri Jun 14 08:56:15 2019 From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 14:56:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Message-ID: Alan and I were on Crew 3 together in about 1965-66, so at least 53 years ago, so maybe it's not surprising that memories fade.?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: "vernon.dyer via Tech1" Date: 14/06/2019 14:34 (GMT+00:00) To: David Newbitt , tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Fair comment,? David.? The more I look at that picture, the more I wonder if it was me on the left. If not, I don't know who it could be, but as I say I have no recollection of the moment.?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: David Newbitt Date: 14/06/2019 12:13 (GMT+00:00) To: "vernon.dyer" , tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Ah! Just when I was building confidence I?m now losing it!! ? Take your observation about height but kindness demands pointing out that Don was quite tall! ? Dave N. ? From: vernon.dyer Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:06 PM To: David Newbitt ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? ? I thought it might be John Milner on the right, by the top cue-light. The height would be right, too (sorry, John!). ? ? Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: David Newbitt Date: 14/06/2019 09:04 (GMT+00:00) To: "vernon.dyer" , tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? Chris Maurice suggested when I first raised this query that it might be John Milner. I rather agreed with that but find that my reply shows in the archive at 1628 yesterday but has not appeared in my inbox. Did anybody else see it? ? Dave Newbitt. ? From: vernon.dyer via Tech1 Sent: Friday, June 14, 2019 12:01 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? ? ? Don't think it's me, Geoff, although I agree that's how I looked in those days. It is Don McQ, I'm pretty sure of that. Never seen that picture before, anyway. ? Best wishes - Vern ? Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Date: 13/06/2019 23:29 (GMT+00:00) To: John Howell Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? Don?t think it?s Alan. How about Verne Dyer? I feel I know the face but can?t really put a name to him. Geoff F ? On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 22:03, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: Could it be Alan Ville SA1? Hibou. ? ? On 13/06/2019 09:26, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: Yes ? that?s definitely Don McQuistan. I feel I should be able to put a name to the chap on Don?s right but it won?t come to me. ? Dave Newbitt. ? From: Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 8:29 AM To: Bernard Newnham Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? Looks like Don Mcquiston partly obscured by the viewfinder hood? G ? On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 18:25, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: A good send off for Alan, with a superb tribute from Geoff Hawkes, and this photo which I haven't seen before --- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: amjaicpiihklkkgn.png Type: image/png Size: 416453 bytes Desc: not available URL: From johngadean at gmail.com Fri Jun 14 09:22:19 2019 From: johngadean at gmail.com (John Dean) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 15:22:19 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Message-ID: The crew members gathered around Alan seem to be looking keenly at his viewfinder. Perhaps he might have been demonstrating his camera trick which he called Zocus and Foom. It was used occasionally on pop music shows. John Dean -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Waresound at msn.com Fri Jun 14 09:48:30 2019 From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 14:48:30 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] John Milner In-Reply-To: <5d0398ed.1c69fb81.e7c19.9afb@mx.google.com> References: , <5d0398ed.1c69fb81.e7c19.9afb@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I too could have Googled him, but I asked because I thought that here in the company of many who knew/know him, I might get a more personal and interesting response. Last time I spoke to him would have been mid to late eighties, possibly even later than that. Nick. Sent from my iPad On 14 Jun 2019, at 13:54, patheigham > wrote: The last time I saw John Milner was when working on The Naked Civil Servant for Thames, we used his little studio in London to record John Hurt?s narration voice-overs. That would have been in 1975. An Internet search shows nothing about Milnersound, or John Milner. There is an entry for John Milner but that?s not our John. Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Nick Ware via Tech1 Sent: 14 June 2019 12:47 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Do we know what became of John Milner? The last I heard of him, albeit a long time ago, he was a Technician on the Tonmeister course at UniS. But despite their close connections with Guildford Cathedral (and mine) over the years, no-one seems to know about him. Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 14 Jun 2019, at 12:07, vernon.dyer via Tech1 > wrote: I thought it might be John Milner on the right, by the top cue-light. The height would be right, too (sorry, John!). [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif] Virus-free. www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Fri Jun 14 10:36:35 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 16:36:35 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <081c5e9c-1356-9ab7-f923-5002b5a8a5d7@gmail.com> Yes, I had to do something with him that might have been that.? On a Heron on TOTP we started very close on Donovan's eyes - "Hurdy Gurdy Man" - far closer than the minimum focal length of the Angeniuex zoom, so Alan adjusted the camera focus to suit. Then we zoomed and tracked back with Alan twiddling knobs a lot. Not at all easy on a Mark1 Heron, I probably pushed it. B On 14/06/2019 15:22, John Dean via Tech1 wrote: > The crew members gathered around Alan seem to be looking keenly at his > viewfinder. Perhaps he might have been demonstrating his camera trick > which he called Zocus and Foom. It was used occasionally on pop music > shows. > > John Dean > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Jun 14 10:45:23 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 16:45:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] John Milner In-Reply-To: References: , <5d0398ed.1c69fb81.e7c19.9afb@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5d03c114.1c69fb81.ea6d2.bc35@mx.google.com> My everlasting memory of John, was after a transmission of TOTP >From LG ?G?. The PA came into the Sound Gallery and asked to play an acetate test disc, to time it for next weeks show. After it finished, John who was sitting in the corner, gloomily remarked: ?That?s going to be a HUGE and HORRIBLE hit!? (Tom Jones ? ?Delilah?) Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Nick Ware via Tech1 Sent: 14 June 2019 15:48 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] John Milner I too could have Googled him, but I asked because I thought that here in the company of many who knew/know him, I might get a more personal and interesting response. Last time I spoke to him would have been mid to late eighties, possibly even later than that. Nick. Sent from my iPad On 14 Jun 2019, at 13:54, patheigham wrote: The last time I saw John Milner was when working on The Naked Civil Servant for Thames, we used his little studio in London to record John Hurt?s narration voice-overs. That would have been in 1975. An Internet search shows nothing about Milnersound, or John Milner. There is an entry for John Milner but that?s not our John. Pat ? ? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ? From: Nick Ware via Tech1 Sent: 14 June 2019 12:47 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge ? Do we know what became of John Milner? The last I heard of him, albeit a long time ago, he was a Technician on the Tonmeister course at UniS. But despite their close connections with Guildford Cathedral (and mine) over the years, no-one seems to know about him. Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 14 Jun 2019, at 12:07, vernon.dyer via Tech1 wrote: I thought it might be John Milner on the right, by the top cue-light. The height would be right, too (sorry, John!). ? Virus-free. www.avast.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com Fri Jun 14 13:23:28 2019 From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 19:23:28 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Message-ID: Good spot, John. I must have left Crew 3 shortly afterwards, going to Pres for 3 months.?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: John Henshall Date: 14/06/2019 18:32 (GMT+00:00) To: "vernon.dyer" Subject: Re: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge From the Tech Ops Staff List dated 4 March 1967:Senior Cameraman - R.J. Peverall (Acting)Cameraman Class I - A.H.F. KerridgeCameraman Class I - C.R. WickhamCameraman Class II - D.M. McQuistan (Acting)Dolly Operator (1) - J.V. DyerDolly Operator (2) - J.E. HoareSound Assistant I - J.V. Milner (Acting)Sound Assistant II - M. ConderSound Assistant (Gen) - A.S. MachinRelief (Mainly Cams) - D. BrookRelief (Mainly Sound) R.W. SutherlandThere were no changes on the 1 April 1967 Staff List.Hope this may help.RegardsJohn Henshall> On 14 Jun 2019, at 14:56, vernon.dyer via Tech1 wrote:> > > Alan and I were on Crew 3 together in about 1965-66, so at least 53 years ago, so maybe it's not surprising that memories fade. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john at epi-centre.com Fri Jun 14 13:33:29 2019 From: john at epi-centre.com (John Henshall) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 19:33:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Message-ID: <9A646FEC-E416-404C-B83A-0F7AF8B12101@epi-centre.com> From the Tech Ops Staff List dated 4 March 1967: Senior Cameraman - R.J. Peverall (Acting) Cameraman Class I - A.H.F. Kerridge Cameraman Class I - C.R. Wickham Cameraman Class II - D.M. McQuistan (Acting) Dolly Operator (1) - J.V. Dyer Dolly Operator (2) - J.E. Hoare Sound Assistant I - J.V. Milner (Acting) Sound Assistant II - M. Conder Sound Assistant (Gen) - A.S. Machin Relief (Mainly Cams) - D. Brook Relief (Mainly Sound) R.W. Sutherland There were no changes on the 1 April 1967 Staff List. Hope this may help. Regards John Henshall From bernie833 at gmail.com Sat Jun 15 03:59:44 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 09:59:44 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Sound advice needed Message-ID: <062ddbe1-31de-1ae3-cbd5-18bb3e34112f@gmail.com> Hi All A friend is a freelance voice over person, who does shifts on BBC1 amongst other things - yesterday some kind of satnav thing for Volvo.? He and a colleague are working on setting up a home studio-? just a voice over booth, really. I was planning to offer advice, then I remembered that there are people here who know far more about this than I do. So, a request for advice.? He currently has a Rode NT2 - I don't know how good that is, but he'll also need a recorder, talkback and some insulation (I do know a bit about that, but all thoughts gratefully accepted).? Low cost is of course, best. cheers B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phider at gmx.com Sat Jun 15 04:58:38 2019 From: phider at gmx.com (phider) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 10:58:38 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Alan Kerridge Message-ID: <0LzXTy-1igTr60Nlq-014ii0@mail.gmx.com> Not from any memory of the occasion but from appearance I think that might be me behind the camera 2 light. But no doubt someone will prove that I was seconded to Woodstock or off sick at the time when the great Almanac is examined.What a great and accurate eulogy Geoff wrote for Alan. He was one of my "ration book"? checkers when I joined in '61 and I have very warm memories of him.Best regardsPeter HiderSent from Samsung Mobile on O2 null -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Sat Jun 15 05:05:29 2019 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 11:05:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Sound advice needed In-Reply-To: <062ddbe1-31de-1ae3-cbd5-18bb3e34112f@gmail.com> References: <062ddbe1-31de-1ae3-cbd5-18bb3e34112f@gmail.com> Message-ID: Much depends on where the studio is located. If it's in a quiet location, audio insulation might not be so important, but wherever the location is, reverberation control is very important. The best way to achieve that is with acoustic foam tiles ( get them from StudioiSpares ). They will also sell virtually everything else needed. Don't even think about using the frequently suggested technique of lining the walls with egg box trays, they would be ineffective at the troublesome frequencies for speech. Soundproofing ( insulation / isolation ) is a much bigger task, the usual approach is to build a room within a room, with the inner room isolated by means of foam pads together with heavy double doors. Sound proofing is usually intended for one of two purposes, but works for both. With musicians, you might want to primarily keep the noise in, but with voice overs, you primarily want to keep external noises out. It's a tricky judgement to know just how soundproof a studio needs to be for a given location and purpose. Like most things it's law of diminishing returns. A few key changes makes a huge difference, but subsequent changes cost more and make less of a difference, but if you need excellent isolation,they become important. A friend of mine was a jazz drummer and lived in a quiet village. His neighbours were disturbed about the noise from him practicing drumming. In the end he decided to build an isolated drum studio in his garage and we tackled it, largely using stuff from StudioSpares. The end result was so effective that his neighbours assumed that he no longer played the drums. He was a competent DIY man and the costs were quite modest. Remember that sound travels via vibrations, either through the air or solid materials. A properly isolated studio should be airtight, which also means that silent ventilation might be needed for lengthy sessions. As for the equipment, he would most likely need some sort of digital recorder, or an interface for a computer so that he could exchange audio and video files with clients. Be wary of having anything with a cooling fan ( even a laptop ) or a hard drive inside the studio itself, the noise they make can easily be picked up. The single biggest aid I've found for faster working in voice over sessions is a good Thesaurus. When spoken, the script might not work as well as imagined and the director might feel that a particular word has been over-used. Rapidly coming up with an alternative word can save a lot of discussion during a session. Alan Taylor On 15 Jun 2019, at 15 Jun . 09:59, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > Hi All > > A friend is a freelance voice over person, who does shifts on BBC1 amongst other things - yesterday some kind of satnav thing for Volvo. He and a colleague are working on setting up a home studio- just a voice over booth, really. I was planning to offer advice, then I remembered that there are people here who know far more about this than I do. > > So, a request for advice. He currently has a Rode NT2 - I don't know how good that is, but he'll also need a recorder, talkback and some insulation (I do know a bit about that, but all thoughts gratefully accepted). Low cost is of course, best. > > cheers > > B > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Sat Jun 15 05:08:29 2019 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 11:08:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Sound advice needed In-Reply-To: <062ddbe1-31de-1ae3-cbd5-18bb3e34112f@gmail.com> References: <062ddbe1-31de-1ae3-cbd5-18bb3e34112f@gmail.com> Message-ID: The Rode NT2 is fine - easily good enough for that sort of use. Rode used to be cheap copy stuff but are way better nowadays. The cheapest and simplest solution is a P48 powering USB interface and then Audacity (free) on a PC. No need for any other recording device. You don't even need talkback - just do the recording in the same room. There's nothing else required for simple voice-over stuff of this sort. He can produce clean sound files, edit and splice them, add whatever clean up or processing he needs, and that's it. You do need a tolerably quiet acoustic, but with the mic nice and close, and the opportunity to re-record anything where the fuzz screeches past, it is amazing how clean you can get recordings in ordinary domestic circumstances. Chris Woolf On 15/06/2019 09:59, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > Hi All > > A friend is a freelance voice over person, who does shifts on BBC1 > amongst other things - yesterday some kind of satnav thing for Volvo.? > He and a colleague are working on setting up a home studio-? just a > voice over booth, really. I was planning to offer advice, then I > remembered that there are people here who know far more about this > than I do. > > So, a request for advice.? He currently has a Rode NT2 - I don't know > how good that is, but he'll also need a recorder, talkback and some > insulation (I do know a bit about that, but all thoughts gratefully > accepted).? Low cost is of course, best. > > cheers > > B > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Sat Jun 15 05:40:38 2019 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 11:40:38 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Sound advice needed In-Reply-To: References: <062ddbe1-31de-1ae3-cbd5-18bb3e34112f@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9ae61d02-ee41-194e-da56-43c4aa90dd33@chriswoolf.co.uk> Alan's points are all very good. But they are also expensive to implement, for the most part, and I suspect unnecessary for this sort of use. I have a friend who is recording for audio books. I've lent him a basic USB interface, a (Rode) mic, and Audacity - and he just uses his living room. His village is relatively quiet, and his house has thick stone walls, but by using a close mic perspective he can exclude all but the worst occasional external sounds. In order to counter the perhaps unnaturally close mic sound (though everyone is used to that nowadays) he simply adds in a tiny bit of acoustic and reverb on Audacity, and it sound very acceptable. At one point we though of a very low level of noise gating to keep everything clean, but in the end there was no need - background was >80dB down. Music is a different animal - and far more tricky to mic so that it sounds pleasant. For that the grander acoustic treatment, sound exclusion etc are mandatory. Chris Woolf On 15/06/2019 11:05, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > Much depends on where the studio is located. > > If it's in a quiet location, audio insulation might not be so > important, but wherever the location is, reverberation control is very > important. ?The best way to achieve that is with acoustic foam tiles ( > get them from StudioiSpares > ?). ? > They will also sell virtually everything else needed. ?Don't even > think about using the frequently suggested technique of lining the > walls with egg box trays, they would be ineffective at the troublesome > frequencies for speech. > > Soundproofing ( insulation / isolation ) is a much bigger task, the > usual approach is to build a room within a room, with the inner room > isolated by means of foam pads together with heavy double doors. > ?Sound proofing is usually intended for one of two purposes, but works > for both. ?With musicians, you might want to primarily keep the noise > in, but with voice overs, you primarily want to keep external noises > out. It's a tricky judgement to know just how soundproof a studio > needs to be for a given location and purpose. ?Like most things it's > law of diminishing returns. ?A few key changes makes a huge > difference, but subsequent changes cost more and make less of a > difference, but if you need excellent isolation,they become important. > > A friend of mine was a jazz drummer and lived in a quiet village. ?His > neighbours were disturbed about the noise from him practicing > drumming. ?In the end he decided to build an isolated drum studio in > his garage and we tackled it, largely using stuff from StudioSpares. > ?The end result was so effective that his neighbours assumed that he > no longer played the drums. ?He was a competent DIY man and the costs > were quite modest. > > Remember that sound travels via vibrations, either through the air or > solid materials. ?A properly isolated studio should be airtight, which > also means that silent ventilation might be needed for lengthy sessions. > > As for the equipment, he would most likely need some sort of digital > recorder, or an interface for a computer so that he could exchange > audio and video files with clients. > > Be wary of having anything with a cooling fan ( even a laptop ) or a > hard drive inside the studio itself, the noise they make can easily be > picked up. > > The single biggest aid I've found for faster working in voice over > sessions is a good Thesaurus. ?When spoken, the script might not work > as well as imagined and the director might feel that a particular word > has been over-used. ?Rapidly coming up with an alternative word can > save a lot of discussion during a session. > > > Alan Taylor > > > > > On 15 Jun 2019, at 15 Jun . 09:59, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > > wrote: > >> Hi All >> >> A friend is a freelance voice over person, who does shifts on BBC1 >> amongst other things - yesterday some kind of satnav thing for >> Volvo.? He and a colleague are working on setting up a home studio-? >> just a voice over booth, really. I was planning to offer advice, then >> I remembered that there are people here who know far more about this >> than I do. >> >> So, a request for advice.? He currently has a Rode NT2 - I don't know >> how good that is, but he'll also need a recorder, talkback and some >> insulation (I do know a bit about that, but all thoughts gratefully >> accepted).? Low cost is of course, best. >> >> cheers >> >> B >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jccglass at gmail.com Sat Jun 15 07:22:13 2019 From: jccglass at gmail.com (Chris on gmail) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 13:22:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Sound advice needed References: <062ddbe1-31de-1ae3-cbd5-18bb3e34112f@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8399965B67A74A74BB2A4A614B88B538@dell9100> I remember back in the 60's building a room for Kieth Moon (The Who) bass drum and toms being main problem we rested a room within a room on old car tyres chris From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Sat Jun 15 11:48:31 2019 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 17:48:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Sound advice needed In-Reply-To: References: <062ddbe1-31de-1ae3-cbd5-18bb3e34112f@gmail.com> Message-ID: Very good advice from Chris and Alan, here are a few further points: When assessing a room for suitability don't play your test recordings back in the same room, any resonances could be enhanced to give a false impression, use headphones they are very revealing. Mount the microphone separately from any table Eg on a gallows arm, as seen on drum kits. This minimises vibrations that could be carried to a table stand. Don't have the mic-reader setup? square to the walls of the room, an oblique angle minimises reflections getting to the mic. Good idea to have the recorder in the studio, you can then add idents without any complicated slating arrangements, & the reader hears what is expected. DO be fastidious with idents, you may think you'll remember the take number & edit notes, but you won't. I hope this helps, John H. On 15/06/2019 11:08, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: > > The Rode NT2 is fine - easily good enough for that sort of use. Rode > used to be cheap copy stuff but are way better nowadays. > > The cheapest and simplest solution is a P48 powering USB interface and > then Audacity (free) on a PC. No need for any other recording device. > You don't even need talkback - just do the recording in the same room. > > There's nothing else required for simple voice-over stuff of this > sort. He can produce clean sound files, edit and splice them, add > whatever clean up or processing he needs, and that's it. > > You do need a tolerably quiet acoustic, but with the mic nice and > close, and the opportunity to re-record anything where the fuzz > screeches past, it is amazing how clean you can get recordings in > ordinary domestic circumstances. > > Chris Woolf > > > On 15/06/2019 09:59, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >> Hi All >> >> A friend is a freelance voice over person, who does shifts on BBC1 >> amongst other things - yesterday some kind of satnav thing for >> Volvo.? He and a colleague are working on setting up a home studio-? >> just a voice over booth, really. I was planning to offer advice, then >> I remembered that there are people here who know far more about this >> than I do. >> >> So, a request for advice.? He currently has a Rode NT2 - I don't know >> how good that is, but he'll also need a recorder, talkback and some >> insulation (I do know a bit about that, but all thoughts gratefully >> accepted).? Low cost is of course, best. >> >> cheers >> >> B >> > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Sat Jun 15 11:55:39 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2019 16:55:39 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Sound advice needed In-Reply-To: <8399965B67A74A74BB2A4A614B88B538@dell9100> References: <062ddbe1-31de-1ae3-cbd5-18bb3e34112f@gmail.com>, <8399965B67A74A74BB2A4A614B88B538@dell9100> Message-ID: Which Chris are you, Chris? Are you Chris Glass, in which I presume you mean Eden? Cheers, Nick Sent from my iPad On 15 Jun 2019, at 13:22, Chris on gmail via Tech1 > wrote: I remember back in the 60's building a room for Kieth Moon (The Who) bass drum and toms being main problem we rested a room within a room on old car tyres chris -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Sun Jun 16 02:33:28 2019 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 08:33:28 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Sound advice needed In-Reply-To: References: <062ddbe1-31de-1ae3-cbd5-18bb3e34112f@gmail.com> Message-ID: Some more thoughts - Voice studios usually have an expensive acoustic table which doesn't reflect sound back at the microphone. Essentially they are just an open weave fabric stretched over an MDF surface full of slots. You can make one yourself out of ready made table legs from Ikea or B&Q with a wooden frame surrounding a suitable perforated support material. If you have a router, you can cut slots into MDF, otherwise DIY chains sell perforated MDF for concealing radiators. Stretch open weave fabric over it ( if you can hold it to your mouth and breath through it, it's open weave ) and finish the wood surrounds neatly to make a good substitute for a professionally built one. Mention of a talkback system implies that there will be a director in one room and the talent in the studio. Conventionally you have a double glazed window with widely spaced thick panes of glass as the window. I once set up a voice over studio where there was no possibility of having a window between the booth and control room, so I used a camera and monitor in the studio and again in the control room in order to get visual feedback. In those days it was a moderately expensive proposition but these days with a bit of careful shopping about or scrounging, it could be cheaper than putting in a window. One unexpected bonus of the video link arrangement was that we could move the virtual window to suit the artist. Some people get put off by having the director glaring at them through the glass directly in front of them and worked much better with the camera and monitor to one side. We did the same in the control room so that we had to look to our side to see the artist in the booth and the whole thing felt very natural. On other occasions, a direct line of sight worked better, so the monitors and cameras were placed in from of the mixing desk and in front of the microphone. Again it felt very natural. For lengthy sessions, sitting in an enclosed booth can feel weird as you lose contact with the real world. As we had several monitors available in the booth, if there was an unused one, I put it to one side of the booth and fed it a live feed from a camera pointing out of the window. Your body clock works much more happily if you can see how light it is and what the weather is doing. Having something like a sheet music stand to hold scripts means that the head is more vertical, rather than looking down at the desk and the voice sounds better. As John said, mount the microphone on a boom to avoid vibration problems. In a small booth I prefer to mount to boom on the wall or ceiling to reduce clutter. Also bear in mind that some voiceover artists prefer to stand up when delivering their lines, so make sure that the microphone arrangements permit that. Scripts are often delivered as text files, so have a monitor or iPad mountable behind the microphone to display the script instead of using paper scripts. You can get autocue type software to facilitate smooth scrolling and speed control. If you need a heavy door for sound isolation purposes, you could copy what RG Jones did in their voice studio in Wimbledon many years ago. They got a sturdy second hand door and laid it horizontally, building a frame around it which they filled with two or three inches of concrete, keyed to the door with partly driven woods crews every so often so that the concrete wouldn't fall off. When set, the door was then mounted on heavy duty hinges with door seals around the edges. With digital recorders or computers, storage is almost unlimited, so record any rehearsals as well, it avoids that problem of doing a great rehearsal and then needing several takes to equal it. Efficient workflow makes a big difference for some types of work. If you're doing a sequence of promos, such as { blurb } ... on BBC 2 next week, then { blurb } ... on BBC 2 on Friday, then { blurb } ... on BBC 2 tomorrow, then { blurb } ... on BBC 2 tonight at 9, it's good to develop an efficient workflow so that you can keep reusing the same blurb and only adding the time related bits afterwards. If you get your act together, you can save a hell of a lot of time, which becomes important if talent is being paid by the hour. Lighting can affect some people's performance. Some work well in an evenly lit environment, while others work better with just a pool of light on the script. I remember doing some voice overs in the huge Sypher 2 studio and the artist wasn't really delivering what the director wanted and knew she was capable of, but turning off the main lights and having a carefully arranged angle poise lamp shifted her performance into another gear. Finally, refreshments will always be brought into the booth and control room. On no account ever allow milk in a container to be taken into the studio. If it's spilt onto the carpet or fabric surfaces, you will never ever get rid of the smell - you might guess that this observation comes from personal experience. If you have a control room, have a small coffee table which is lower than the sound desk or keyboard and make sure that drinks are always put down there. A cup on the same height as the work surface is asking to get knocked over into the electronics. Keep drinks lower in height than the gear and let gravity send any spillages away from the gear. Alan Taylor On 15 Jun 2019, at 15 Jun . 17:48, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > Very good advice from Chris and Alan, here are a few further points: > > When assessing a room for suitability don't play your test recordings back in the same room, any resonances could be enhanced to give a false impression, use headphones they are very revealing. > > Mount the microphone separately from any table Eg on a gallows arm, as seen on drum kits. This minimises vibrations that could be carried to a table stand. > > Don't have the mic-reader setup square to the walls of the room, an oblique angle minimises reflections getting to the mic. > > Good idea to have the recorder in the studio, you can then add idents without any complicated slating arrangements, & the reader hears what is expected. > > DO be fastidious with idents, you may think you'll remember the take number & edit notes, but you won't. > > > > I hope this helps, > > John H. > > > > > On 15/06/2019 11:08, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >> The Rode NT2 is fine - easily good enough for that sort of use. Rode used to be cheap copy stuff but are way better nowadays. >> The cheapest and simplest solution is a P48 powering USB interface and then Audacity (free) on a PC. No need for any other recording device. You don't even need talkback - just do the recording in the same room. >> There's nothing else required for simple voice-over stuff of this sort. He can produce clean sound files, edit and splice them, add whatever clean up or processing he needs, and that's it. >> You do need a tolerably quiet acoustic, but with the mic nice and close, and the opportunity to re-record anything where the fuzz screeches past, it is amazing how clean you can get recordings in ordinary domestic circumstances. >> >> Chris Woolf >> >> >> On 15/06/2019 09:59, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >>> Hi All >>> >>> A friend is a freelance voice over person, who does shifts on BBC1 amongst other things - yesterday some kind of satnav thing for Volvo. He and a colleague are working on setting up a home studio- just a voice over booth, really. I was planning to offer advice, then I remembered that there are people here who know far more about this than I do. >>> >>> So, a request for advice. He currently has a Rode NT2 - I don't know how good that is, but he'll also need a recorder, talkback and some insulation (I do know a bit about that, but all thoughts gratefully accepted). Low cost is of course, best. >>> >>> cheers >>> >>> B >>> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com Sun Jun 16 04:20:36 2019 From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 10:20:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Summer Disorganised Lunch Message-ID: <5CDDFB8A-1A4B-4D67-AC09-8EC9B167FCF5@btinternet.com> Hi Everyone, Yes, it?s that time again! The next Disorganised Lunch will be held on Wednesday July 3rd. The ?Coach & Horses? 1 High Rd, Ickenham, Uxbridge. UB10 8LJ Tel: 01895 679335 Ickenham Met and Piccadilly tube station is a 3 minute walk away. Come out of the station, turn left, walk until you meet the main road, turn right and the pub is on your right a short distance away. There is a car park which you pay for but you?ll get your money back at the bar. There?s also a public car park nearby to the right of the pub. Barry. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Disorg July.jpg Type: image/jpg Size: 104520 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alanaudio at me.com Sun Jun 16 05:44:38 2019 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 11:44:38 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Sound advice needed In-Reply-To: <16423AF9-4965-4FF7-A048-01BC80F869D8@btinternet.com> References: <062ddbe1-31de-1ae3-cbd5-18bb3e34112f@gmail.com> <16423AF9-4965-4FF7-A048-01BC80F869D8@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <6EF0082C-2472-4E0D-BE02-D47A16EF4946@me.com> The acoustics in a room can be tamed by all sorts of unconventional means. I often recorded voice overs on site during dramas. Before the days of digital manipulation I also devised a technique to rapidly record fully sync replacement dialogue on site. A favourite choice was to use the wardrobe room because they had rails of costumes which could be easily wheeled around to provide highly effective reverberation control. I've enclosed a picture of such a session recorded at Pinewood. Getting on well with other departments always pays off if you want a bit of co-operation like that. Sorry about the blurriness, particularly of the boom op, but it was a several second exposure due to the slow film I had in the camera at that time and it was early evening, but you get the idea of how it was improvised. I've also done voice recordings in a quiet bedroom in a hotel where we propped up mattresses and suspended bedding across the room to deaden the acoustics. In the case of the recording at Pinewood, the reason why we did them on-site was because our main artist was Terry Gilliam ( not pictured here ) and he wasn't expected to be available for post-production. In the end he was needed for one or two additional recordings and after they recorded him the dubbing mixer contacted me and asked how we got such a dead acoustic on-site. Their proper voice over booth sounded pretty dire by comparison, I reckoned most of that was down to the large glass window in their booth creating unfortunate reflections together with having the artist face on to it, precisely how John explained you shouldn't do it. Heavy drapes, upholstered chairs and thick carpets can make a huge acoustic difference to a room which is also used for other purposes. Part of my location drama kit in more recent years was about a dozen 100mm and 50mm thick acoustic foam panels 600mm square. They were mounted on backing boards and could be quickly linked together to make rigid arrangements to be mounted on lighting stands, rather like how lighting people mount poly sheet as reflectors. Those acoustic panels could make a massive difference when recording in unfortunate acoustics and they were worth their weight in gold when I shot some dialogue scenes in a Greek villa which consisted almost entirely of highly reflective surfaces such as ceramic tiles, bare walls, and huge windows. A modest amount of sound deadening put in the right places can make a huge improvement to a room of that type. Alan Taylor On 16 Jun 2019, at 16 Jun . 10:31, Roger E Long wrote: > All good advice for a pro install > However I have recorded many voice overs and narratives in the most extraordinary locations, such is the role of field recording > An overhead boom on a stand is a major advantage, rather than a frontal approach > A tight cardioid a good pattern , but a fig 8 has its uses and can split 2 voices really well > Removal of clocks and any mechanical noise obvious, as dead an acoustic as possible obviously > Monitor on cans in the room, praps give feed to the victim if they lack confidence or indeed have too much?.. > I have recorded wild dialog in cars, they have good acoustics and excellent isolation, but don?t use small boxy rooms with eigentones and ringing > A good angle poise light and a music stand fine for the pages, care with page turns, fig 8 excellent for that in the null. > A transcription is useful for a paper edit > Record everything, but try and get coherence in the original , not manufacture it, and be careful in the edit to leave natural breaks and breaths, nothing worse than the terrible laptop edits journos make nowadays (R4 and World Service dire) > Keep away from cheesy synth underlay and stings, its very unatural . > Eye contact with the victim is vital, that it as a conversation , not an ordeal > Dont drag it out, brevity over total control, there is no such thing as perfection?.. > > Roger > > >> On 16 Jun 2019, at 08:33, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Some more thoughts - >> >> Voice studios usually have an expensive acoustic table which doesn't reflect sound back at the microphone. Essentially they are just an open weave fabric stretched over an MDF surface full of slots. You can make one yourself out of ready made table legs from Ikea or B&Q with a wooden frame surrounding a suitable perforated support material. If you have a router, you can cut slots into MDF, otherwise DIY chains sell perforated MDF for concealing radiators. Stretch open weave fabric over it ( if you can hold it to your mouth and breath through it, it's open weave ) and finish the wood surrounds neatly to make a good substitute for a professionally built one. >> >> Mention of a talkback system implies that there will be a director in one room and the talent in the studio. Conventionally you have a double glazed window with widely spaced thick panes of glass as the window. I once set up a voice over studio where there was no possibility of having a window between the booth and control room, so I used a camera and monitor in the studio and again in the control room in order to get visual feedback. In those days it was a moderately expensive proposition but these days with a bit of careful shopping about or scrounging, it could be cheaper than putting in a window. One unexpected bonus of the video link arrangement was that we could move the virtual window to suit the artist. Some people get put off by having the director glaring at them through the glass directly in front of them and worked much better with the camera and monitor to one side. We did the same in the control room so that we had to look to our side to see the artist in the booth and the whole thing felt very natural. On other occasions, a direct line of sight worked better, so the monitors and cameras were placed in from of the mixing desk and in front of the microphone. Again it felt very natural. For lengthy sessions, sitting in an enclosed booth can feel weird as you lose contact with the real world. As we had several monitors available in the booth, if there was an unused one, I put it to one side of the booth and fed it a live feed from a camera pointing out of the window. Your body clock works much more happily if you can see how light it is and what the weather is doing. >> >> Having something like a sheet music stand to hold scripts means that the head is more vertical, rather than looking down at the desk and the voice sounds better. As John said, mount the microphone on a boom to avoid vibration problems. In a small booth I prefer to mount to boom on the wall or ceiling to reduce clutter. Also bear in mind that some voiceover artists prefer to stand up when delivering their lines, so make sure that the microphone arrangements permit that. Scripts are often delivered as text files, so have a monitor or iPad mountable behind the microphone to display the script instead of using paper scripts. You can get autocue type software to facilitate smooth scrolling and speed control. >> >> If you need a heavy door for sound isolation purposes, you could copy what RG Jones did in their voice studio in Wimbledon many years ago. They got a sturdy second hand door and laid it horizontally, building a frame around it which they filled with two or three inches of concrete, keyed to the door with partly driven woods crews every so often so that the concrete wouldn't fall off. When set, the door was then mounted on heavy duty hinges with door seals around the edges. >> >> With digital recorders or computers, storage is almost unlimited, so record any rehearsals as well, it avoids that problem of doing a great rehearsal and then needing several takes to equal it. >> >> Efficient workflow makes a big difference for some types of work. If you're doing a sequence of promos, such as { blurb } ... on BBC 2 next week, then { blurb } ... on BBC 2 on Friday, then { blurb } ... on BBC 2 tomorrow, then { blurb } ... on BBC 2 tonight at 9, it's good to develop an efficient workflow so that you can keep reusing the same blurb and only adding the time related bits afterwards. If you get your act together, you can save a hell of a lot of time, which becomes important if talent is being paid by the hour. >> >> Lighting can affect some people's performance. Some work well in an evenly lit environment, while others work better with just a pool of light on the script. I remember doing some voice overs in the huge Sypher 2 studio and the artist wasn't really delivering what the director wanted and knew she was capable of, but turning off the main lights and having a carefully arranged angle poise lamp shifted her performance into another gear. >> >> Finally, refreshments will always be brought into the booth and control room. On no account ever allow milk in a container to be taken into the studio. If it's spilt onto the carpet or fabric surfaces, you will never ever get rid of the smell - you might guess that this observation comes from personal experience. If you have a control room, have a small coffee table which is lower than the sound desk or keyboard and make sure that drinks are always put down there. A cup on the same height as the work surface is asking to get knocked over into the electronics. Keep drinks lower in height than the gear and let gravity send any spillages away from the gear. >> >> Alan Taylor >> >> >> >> On 15 Jun 2019, at 15 Jun . 17:48, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >> >>> Very good advice from Chris and Alan, here are a few further points: >>> >>> When assessing a room for suitability don't play your test recordings back in the same room, any resonances could be enhanced to give a false impression, use headphones they are very revealing. >>> >>> Mount the microphone separately from any table Eg on a gallows arm, as seen on drum kits. This minimises vibrations that could be carried to a table stand. >>> >>> Don't have the mic-reader setup square to the walls of the room, an oblique angle minimises reflections getting to the mic. >>> >>> Good idea to have the recorder in the studio, you can then add idents without any complicated slating arrangements, & the reader hears what is expected. >>> >>> DO be fastidious with idents, you may think you'll remember the take number & edit notes, but you won't. >>> >>> >>> >>> I hope this helps, >>> >>> John H. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 15/06/2019 11:08, Chris Woolf via Tech1 wrote: >>>> The Rode NT2 is fine - easily good enough for that sort of use. Rode used to be cheap copy stuff but are way better nowadays. >>>> The cheapest and simplest solution is a P48 powering USB interface and then Audacity (free) on a PC. No need for any other recording device. You don't even need talkback - just do the recording in the same room. >>>> There's nothing else required for simple voice-over stuff of this sort. He can produce clean sound files, edit and splice them, add whatever clean up or processing he needs, and that's it. >>>> You do need a tolerably quiet acoustic, but with the mic nice and close, and the opportunity to re-record anything where the fuzz screeches past, it is amazing how clean you can get recordings in ordinary domestic circumstances. >>>> >>>> Chris Woolf >>>> >>>> >>>> On 15/06/2019 09:59, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> Hi All >>>>> >>>>> A friend is a freelance voice over person, who does shifts on BBC1 amongst other things - yesterday some kind of satnav thing for Volvo. He and a colleague are working on setting up a home studio- just a voice over booth, really. I was planning to offer advice, then I remembered that there are people here who know far more about this than I do. >>>>> >>>>> So, a request for advice. He currently has a Rode NT2 - I don't know how good that is, but he'll also need a recorder, talkback and some insulation (I do know a bit about that, but all thoughts gratefully accepted). Low cost is of course, best. >>>>> >>>>> cheers >>>>> >>>>> B >>>>> >>>> >>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PastedGraphic-1.tiff Type: image/tiff Size: 4601390 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Sun Jun 16 08:55:39 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 14:55:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Sound advice needed In-Reply-To: References: <062ddbe1-31de-1ae3-cbd5-18bb3e34112f@gmail.com> Message-ID: <85821d7c-a77c-3c38-5f34-b5c9f21f303a@gmail.com> Hi All Thanks to all who've helped with this - Matthew is very thankful, and touched by your generosity. cheers B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From keithwicksuk at gmail.com Mon Jun 17 15:17:14 2019 From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 21:17:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Summer Disorganised Lunch In-Reply-To: <5CDDFB8A-1A4B-4D67-AC09-8EC9B167FCF5@btinternet.com> References: <5CDDFB8A-1A4B-4D67-AC09-8EC9B167FCF5@btinternet.com> Message-ID: I have informed Don (still no email) Smith. KW On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 at 10:21, Barry Bonner via Tech1 wrote: > Hi Everyone, > Yes, it?s that time again! The next Disorganised Lunch will be held on > Wednesday July 3rd. > > *The ?Coach & Horses? 1 High Rd, Ickenham, Uxbridge. UB10 8LJ Tel: 01895 > 679335* > > Ickenham Met and Piccadilly tube station is a 3 minute walk away. Come out > of the station, turn left, walk until you meet the main road, turn right > and the pub is on your right a short distance away. > > There is a car park which you pay for but you?ll get your money back at > the bar. There?s also a public car park nearby to the right of the pub. > > Barry. > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Disorg July.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 104520 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Jun 18 09:22:23 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 15:22:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <20E3CBCC-4332-4ABE-AC98-1799BE14718F@mac.com> References: <77352F52-5F2D-4910-9049-08150F1ECB9B@me.com> <27c3f98e-53db-9acf-160e-6d21b2b4b9b3@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7B10E618-FA60-4180-B44C-73BEFDFF96DF@btinternet.com> <20E3CBCC-4332-4ABE-AC98-1799BE14718F@mac.com> Message-ID: <5d08f3a2.1c69fb81.18a3f.d308@mx.google.com> Mike, The attachment comes from Petrol Prices newsletter ? not very clear, but suggests that sound-level meters would be used. I suspect that your local noise pollutants are the bikers that use the A24 as a racetrack? Police regularly set up mobile speed cameras, and I?ve often seen ambulances there when the going got too tough! Why don?t they club together and hire Brands Hatch for a track day, instead of putting other road users at risk. Even expert riders like the late Barry Sheene can come to grief, as I personally witnessed at Daytona in 1975. In the newsletter, the comment about teaching youngsters that noise doesn?t equal speed reminds me that at prep school, we used to ride our bikes round the sports field with a cardboard slip and clothes peg flicking on the spokes ? to make a noise! Best Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Mike Giles via Tech1 Sent: 12 June 2019 23:44 To: Nick Ware Cc: Tech Ops Subject: Re: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. To expand the theme ~ how do the recently publicised acoustic cameras work? Apparently the Department of Transport is initiating a trial of seven months duration, in an effort to combat motor bike and sports car noise pollution ~ something I?ve been campaigning about locally for a while. Mike G --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Acoustic cameras to catch noise polluters PetrolPrices.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 1449258 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Tue Jun 18 11:36:02 2019 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:36:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] Re: Memories of old Tech ops. In-Reply-To: <5d08f3a2.1c69fb81.18a3f.d308@mx.google.com> References: <77352F52-5F2D-4910-9049-08150F1ECB9B@me.com> <27c3f98e-53db-9acf-160e-6d21b2b4b9b3@chriswoolf.co.uk> <7B10E618-FA60-4180-B44C-73BEFDFF96DF@btinternet.com> <20E3CBCC-4332-4ABE-AC98-1799BE14718F@mac.com> <5d08f3a2.1c69fb81.18a3f.d308@mx.google.com> Message-ID: *From: *Mike Giles via Tech1 > > To expand the theme ~ how do the recently publicised acoustic cameras > work? Apparently the Department of Transport is initiating a trial of > seven months duration, in an effort to combat motor bike and sports > car noise pollution ~ something I?ve been campaigning about locally > for a while. > The term "acoustic camera" is generally being applied to beam-former arrays. These use lots of small mics - often MEMS devices - spread over a circular, hexagonal or square plate 30-50cm across. By combining their signals with suitable digitally arranged phase delays, directional listening "beams" can be generated. There is no theoretical limit to the number of beams that can be generated simultaneously - you just need more processing power - and these beams can be? used to recognise typical sound patterns (such as engine sounds, or roaring exhausts) and track them dynamically. Allied to an optical camera, and overlaid on the image, these beams can be made to generate tracking coloured patches which show the measured sound level. Thus you can tell pretty accurately which individual vehicle is generating how much noise. Pretty clever... Chris Woolf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Tue Jun 18 12:02:14 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 18:02:14 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] How much is a gin and tonic? Message-ID: I was at the Head of the River in Oxford yesterday, where I was charged nearly ?15 for two g and t's. Now at the Trout Inn, Godstow, where it isn't much cheaper. We're on a half of IPA and a half of cider which cost less than one g and t. How much is it at your local? B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Tue Jun 18 13:09:54 2019 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:09:54 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] How much is a gin and tonic? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57c62d68b0dave@davesound.co.uk> In article , Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > I was at the Head of the River in Oxford yesterday, where I was charged > nearly ?15 for two g and t's. Now at the Trout Inn, Godstow, where it isn't > much cheaper. We're on a half of IPA and a half of cider which cost less > than one g and t. How much is it at your local? At a car meet at a pub in Cobham, I was charged just under 5 quid for two tonics in the same glass with ice Which they'd nearly run out of. More than they charge for a designer coffee. And all they had was ordinary tonic - my local has a choice. And 'they' wonder why pubs are closing. -- *What are the pink bits in my tyres? Cyclists & Joggers* Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk London SW 12 From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Tue Jun 18 19:34:40 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 01:34:40 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! Message-ID: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> When I first got a CD burner I used Nero, but that got bigger and bigger and more complicated. Then I discovered Ashampoo, which was much smaller and did the job OK. Now, I'm finding that Ashampoo is taking at least 5 minutes between each step to burning anything. I have tried other progs. but none of them will allow me just to add items to an already recorded CD, which Ashampoo does. I'm told that Roxio does, but I don't know which version to go for. Any ideas? Cheers, Dave From waresound at msn.com Wed Jun 19 04:01:29 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 09:01:29 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Presumably you don?t mean audio CD?s because once finalised (made playable on a CD player) you can?t add further tracks. For audio CD?s to Red Book spec, I use CD Architect (was SonicFoundry, then Sony, now Magix). For data CD?s I use Roxio Creator 2012. It?s not the latest version, but for my purposes I see no need to upgrade. Why not just add the new data to the folder you burnt the CD from last time, and burn a new disk? Blank disks are dirt cheap, and by burning to a new disk you extend the safe storage life of the data (Burnable CD?s don?t last forever). I have steered clear of Nero because over the years a lot of people on the IPS forums have had problems with it. Don?t know anything about Ashampoo, I?m afraid. Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 19 Jun 2019, at 01:35, dave.mdv via Tech1 > wrote: When I first got a CD burner I used Nero, but that got bigger and bigger and more complicated. Then I discovered Ashampoo, which was much smaller and did the job OK. Now, I'm finding that Ashampoo is taking at least 5 minutes between each step to burning anything. I have tried other progs. but none of them will allow me just to add items to an already recorded CD, which Ashampoo does. I'm told that Roxio does, but I don't know which version to go for. Any ideas? Cheers, Dave -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk Wed Jun 19 04:04:34 2019 From: robert.miles at soundsuper.co.uk (Robert Miles) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 10:04:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] My Cousin Rachel - August 1982 Message-ID: <000e01d5267e$038af1f0$0aa0d5d0$@soundsuper.co.uk> Recently came across a 'tape editing exercise' from August '82 whist working on My Cousin Rachel directed by Brian Farnham and FM Jeremy Silberson. I think Derek Miller-Timmins was SS. Rob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Brian Farnham, Director, _My Cousin Rachel_.mp3 Type: audio/mpeg Size: 307934 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Jeremy Silberson _Right OK_, _My Cousin Rachel_.mp3 Type: audio/mpeg Size: 2295748 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nick at nickway.co.uk Wed Jun 19 04:07:01 2019 From: nick at nickway.co.uk (Nick Way) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 10:07:01 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Tech1] [SPAM?] My Cousin Rachel - August 1982 In-Reply-To: <000e01d5267e$038af1f0$0aa0d5d0$@soundsuper.co.uk> References: <000e01d5267e$038af1f0$0aa0d5d0$@soundsuper.co.uk> Message-ID: <1685071174.28501.1560935221878@email.ionos.co.uk> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richardjblencowe at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 04:52:06 2019 From: richardjblencowe at gmail.com (Richard Blencowe) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 10:52:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] War on Plastic Message-ID: <002101d52684$a86a8770$f93f9650$@com> The prog "War on Plastic" did well to "educate and inform" by once again highlighting the issue of plastic waste. A real problem for all of us. However the bit about wipes was asking the wrong question and became farcical. Having established the amount of plastic used in these the questions to ask of the manufacturers are:- 1. Why is so much plastic used in these products? 2. Are they actively researching into removing plastic from wipes and making them from a bio degradable material and if not why not? To drive an advertising van round to the various HQ buildings asking why the materials used in wipes are not listed on the packet will do little to alleviate the vast quantities of plastic waste caused by wipes. Whether people know what wipes are made of or not will make little difference to the sales of these products and who will read the label on the packet anyway. Dick Blencowe --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Wed Jun 19 08:47:19 2019 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:47:19 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] How much is a gin and tonic? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2005A400-C2F8-4132-AF5A-695E1157BE70@me.com> It sounds like you got a bargain for G&Ts in the Oxford area. The last time my wife and I went to the New Theatre in Oxford, we had two G&Ts before the performance and ordered two more for the interval, which cost me ?72 for those four drinks, or ?18 each. They weren?t even exotic brands of either gin or tonic. Alan Taylor > On 18 Jun 2019, at 18:02, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > > I was at the Head of the River in Oxford yesterday, where I was charged nearly ?15 for two g and t's. Now at the Trout Inn, Godstow, where it isn't much cheaper. We're on a half of IPA and a half of cider which cost less than one g and t. How much is it at your local? > > B > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Jun 19 09:11:53 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:11:53 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] How much is a gin and tonic? In-Reply-To: <2005A400-C2F8-4132-AF5A-695E1157BE70@me.com> References: <2005A400-C2F8-4132-AF5A-695E1157BE70@me.com> Message-ID: <5d0a42aa.1c69fb81.86a34.d3c1@mx.google.com> For my 75th Birthday celebrations, I took several friends to ?42nd Street? at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane, over the course of the year. The Bar prices were extortionate. However, I did ?launch le bateau? and treated two friends at the very last performance, to a glass of champagne each, at ?11.50 for a 125ml! (Haagen Daz ice creams in the interval were ?3.50. Programmes a fiver). I saw the show 10 times, with different sets of friends, but always seated in the Royal Circle, as from my days in the TVT, the main wide shot was from the Mole craned up to the level of the dress circle ? so I reckoned on that being the best angle! But back to G & T. A friend and I took a very small cruise ship across the Indian Ocean from Durban to Bali. We were advised that the bar prices were not duty-free, so armed with bottles of gin before boarding, we would have a sharpener in the cabin, before joining up in the lounge bar, and just ordering a tonic, with the gin smuggled in, in a small bottle. We didn?t worry too much about being caught, as the barman turned out to be on the fiddle ? serving spirits from his own bottles under the counter. (Think he was dismissed and dumped somewhere in the middle of the Indonesian archipelago). Regards Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 Sent: 19 June 2019 14:47 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] How much is a gin and tonic? It sounds like you got a bargain for G&Ts in the Oxford area. The last time my wife and I went to the New Theatre in Oxford, we had two G&Ts before the performance and ordered two more for the interval, which cost me ?72 for those four drinks, or ?18 each. They weren?t even exotic brands of either gin or tonic. Alan Taylor > On 18 Jun 2019, at 18:02, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > > I was at the Head of the River in Oxford yesterday, where I was charged nearly ?15 for two g and t's. Now at the Trout Inn, Godstow, where it isn't much cheaper. We're on a half of IPA and a half of cider which cost less than one g and t. How much is it at your local? > > B --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Wed Jun 19 09:19:06 2019 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:19:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] How much is a gin and tonic? Message-ID: <57c69c1d2adave@davesound.co.uk> I have a friend who is an alcoholic in recovery. Some 10 years sober. When shopping, she goes to the booze isle, and looks at her favourite bottle of brandy. And says (to herself) 'How f***ing much? Couldn't afford to drink these days' Perhaps even more so with fags. No wonder so many are smuggled in. -- *How about "never"? Is "never" good for you? Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk London SW 12 From bernie833 at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 09:48:08 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:48:08 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] How much is a gin and tonic? In-Reply-To: <57c69c1d2adave@davesound.co.uk> References: <57c69c1d2adave@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: I'm on a quest now. I'm going to go round ordering a Gordons and Schweppes, and not get given Sipsmith and Fever Tree. I just don't like being ripped off On Wed, 19 Jun 2019, 15:20 Dave Plowman via Tech1, wrote: > I have a friend who is an alcoholic in recovery. Some 10 years sober. When > shopping, she goes to the booze isle, and looks at her favourite bottle of > brandy. And says (to herself) > > 'How f***ing much? Couldn't afford to drink these days' > > Perhaps even more so with fags. No wonder so many are smuggled in. > > -- > *How about "never"? Is "never" good for you? > > Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk London SW 12 > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 10:01:47 2019 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 16:01:47 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Name check and roll call Message-ID: <003001d526af$eaa03d80$bfe0b880$@gmail.com> New topic alert with two unrelated questions. Firstly, can anyone tell me the correct spelling of Roger Davis's surname, the one who made his name as an Inlay operator in the sixties and who held the summer garden parties at his home in Leatherhead. Is it Davis or Davies? I mention him in the tribute to Alan Kerridge that I'm going to submit for the Obituaries column in Prospero when I've added what was said about his pre-BBC life and wantto get it right. Secondly, on Radio 4 at lunchtime today the term "fractals" was mentioned and I immediately thought of Eddie Brandon who enthused about writing programs to produce them on his BBC micro in the early eighties. This prompts me to ask, is Eddie still around and if so what's he up to now as I can't recall hearing anything about him on here? While on the subject, how about Kevin White and Julian Tolkien? Julian was into growing fuchsias and Kevin was kind enough to liken his expertise with them to mine with sweet peas, which compliment I would never lay claim to as I only sow and grow, whereas Julian I believe raised new varieties. Kevin was SA1 on Crew 5 where I was put for my first experience of Sound when I joined in September 1963. Among those prominent in my memory from that time were Adrian Stocks and George Ageros as well as Gordon Rolls (and there we go again). John Howell (Hibou) was there too but at least I know he's very much still around. There are so many people like that whom I remember from our working days and sometimes wonder about and I'm sure lots of you are the same. It would be good if someone with an old crew list could produce a kind of Presence/Absence sheet so we can see and perhaps avoid the awkwardness of enquiring after someone's health when they've long gone, Geoff Hawkes -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Jun 19 10:06:13 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 16:06:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] How much is a gin and tonic? In-Reply-To: References: <57c69c1d2adave@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: <5d0a4f66.1c69fb81.c8c26.0c46@mx.google.com> I hope you are not driving, Bernie, but it sounds like an excellent quest. On my small boat cruise, possibly mentioned earlier, a couple on board whom we chummed up with, decided to see if we could create Lychee Gin, like Sloe Gin. So donating a bottle of duty-free Gordon?s we stuffed fresh, peeled lychees into the bottle, and left it for the six-week duration of the voyage. Came the moment to sample ? disappointing ? the spirit had not taken up the pleasant flavour of the lychee ? but ? WOW! when we bit into the fruit ? electric on the tongue ? the lychee had absorbed the alcohol from the gin, and become a miniature grenade. I wondered if a chocolate coating could be added to make a superior liqueur chocolate! Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 19 June 2019 15:48 To: Dave Plowman Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] How much is a gin and tonic? I'm on a quest now. I'm going to go round ordering a Gordons and Schweppes, and not get given Sipsmith and Fever Tree. I just don't like being ripped off? On Wed, 19 Jun 2019, 15:20 Dave Plowman via Tech1, wrote: I have a friend who is an alcoholic in recovery. Some 10 years sober. When shopping, she goes to the booze isle, and looks at her favourite bottle of brandy. And says (to herself) ?'How f***ing much? Couldn't afford to drink these days' Perhaps even more so with fags. No wonder so many are smuggled in. -- *How about "never"? Is "never" good for you? ? ? Dave Plowman? ? ?dave at davesound.co.uk? ? ?London SW 12 -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Wed Jun 19 10:37:41 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 16:37:41 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Name check and roll call In-Reply-To: <003001d526af$eaa03d80$bfe0b880$@gmail.com> References: <003001d526af$eaa03d80$bfe0b880$@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5d0a56c6.1c69fb81.b3070.fb69@mx.google.com> Roger lived but half a mile from me in Bookham and I?m pretty sure that it was Davies. He advertised himself as ?an antique horologist? and could work wonders on clocks. He also serviced the clockwork locomotives for my Leatherhead school?s Gauge 1 outside layout. I had an interesting ?Pocket Phonograph? a device which would play 78rmp records with an acoustical ?horn?. Ideal for the punting afternoons with a bottle of fizz and a compliant female companion! Roger mended the spring drive, and also made a complete needle holder with a knurled finger screw to hold a needle ? even providing me with a box of needles. Apparently he would use these needles as a basis of mending clocks, the separate levels requiring spacers, for which the needles were ideal. Sad that he?s gone. Adrian (Yogi) Stocks was the dedicated Sound Supervisor to Crew 3 in the early sixties ? certainly 1962-65? He died some time, but I cannot remember when. I can try and find out. Best Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 Sent: 19 June 2019 16:01 To: tech1 Subject: [Tech1] Name check and roll call Firstly, can anyone tell me the correct spelling of Roger Davis?s surname, the one who made his name as an Inlay operator in the sixties and who held the summer garden parties at his home in Leatherhead. Is it Davis or Davies? I mention him in the tribute to Alan Kerridge that I?m going to submit for the Obituaries column in Prospero when I?ve added what was said about his pre-BBC life and wantto get it right. Among those prominent in my memory from that time were Adrian Stocks --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikej at bmanor.co.uk Wed Jun 19 10:56:01 2019 From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 16:56:01 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] A good laugh Message-ID: Hi all Just looking around in my files for a lecture I gave once that someone had asked for a copy and found this. Not sure whence it came but excellent for a bit of a laugh. Even some bits (a very few) relevant now. Enjoy! Mike Jordan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BBC Variety programmes guide from 1949.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 265024 bytes Desc: not available URL: From billjenkin67 at gmail.com Wed Jun 19 11:25:01 2019 From: billjenkin67 at gmail.com (Bill Jenkin) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 17:25:01 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Name check and roll call In-Reply-To: <003001d526af$eaa03d80$bfe0b880$@gmail.com> References: <003001d526af$eaa03d80$bfe0b880$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Geoff On the Roger Davis front it is Davis. I am sure people will know the whereabouts of some of the names you mention. Julian Tolkien lived not far from me but I think he may have moved into Evesham. I used to bump into him at local farmer's markets and the like. I last saw him in our village hall after the funeral of another big Fuschia grower who lived in our village. Bill On Wed, 19 Jun 2019, 16:02 geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1, < tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > New topic alert with two unrelated questions. > > Firstly, can anyone tell me the correct spelling of Roger Davis?s surname, > the one who made his name as an Inlay operator in the sixties and who held > the summer garden parties at his home in Leatherhead. *Is it Davis or > Davies*? I mention him in the tribute to Alan Kerridge that I?m going to > submit for the Obituaries column in Prospero when I?ve added what was said > about his pre-BBC life and wantto get it right. > > Secondly, on Radio 4 at lunchtime today the term *?fractals?* was > mentioned and I immediately thought of *Eddie Brandon* who enthused about > writing programs to produce them on his BBC micro in the early eighties. > > This prompts me to ask, is Eddie still around and if so what?s he up to > now as I can?t recall hearing anything about him on here? > > > > While on the subject, how about *Kevin White* and *Julian Tolkien*? > Julian was into growing fuchsias and Kevin was kind enough to liken his > expertise with them to mine with sweet peas, which compliment I would never > lay claim to as I only sow and grow, whereas Julian I believe raised new > varieties. Kevin was SA1 on Crew 5 where I was put for my first experience > of Sound when I joined in September 1963. Among those prominent in my > memory from that time were *Adrian Stocks* and *George Ageros* as well as *Gordon > Rolls* (and there we go again). *John Howell* (Hibou) was there too but > at least I know he?s very much still around. > > > > There are so many people like that whom I remember from our working days > and sometimes wonder about and I?m sure lots of you are the same. It would > be good if someone with an old crew list could produce a kind of > Presence/Absence sheet so we can see and perhaps avoid the awkwardness of > enquiring after someone?s health when they?ve long gone, > > > > *Geoff Hawkes* > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johna.bennett at talktalk.net Wed Jun 19 11:31:25 2019 From: johna.bennett at talktalk.net (John Bennett) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 17:31:25 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Try https://www.cdburnerxp.se/ It's free, updated and (in my experience) it works well. Cheers?? John On 19/06/2019 01:34, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > When I first got a CD burner I used Nero, but that got bigger and > bigger and more complicated. Then I discovered Ashampoo, which was > much smaller and did the job OK. Now, I'm finding that Ashampoo is > taking at least 5 minutes between each step to burning anything. I > have tried other progs. but none of them will allow me just to add > items to an already recorded CD, which Ashampoo does. I'm told that > Roxio does, but I don't know which version to go for. Any ideas? > Cheers, Dave > -- John Bennett 07768 527518 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gary_critcher at yahoo.com Wed Jun 19 11:32:36 2019 From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 16:32:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] Name check and roll call References: <2138645016.6002157.1560961956658.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2138645016.6002157.1560961956658@mail.yahoo.com> Could i ask if Julian is/was a member of THE Tolkien family? -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 19/6/19, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 wrote: Subject: Re: [Tech1] Name check and roll call To: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Cc: "Tech-Ops. co. uk email group" Date: Wednesday, 19 June, 2019, 18:25 Geoff?On the Roger Davis front it is Davis.? I am sure people will know the whereabouts of some of the names you mention. Julian Tolkien lived not far from me but I think he may have moved into Evesham. I used to bump into him at local farmer's markets and the like. I last saw him in our village hall after the funeral of another big Fuschia grower who lived in our village.Bill On Wed, 19 Jun 2019, 16:02 geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1, wrote: New topic alert with two unrelated questions.Firstly, can anyone tell me the correct spelling of Roger Davis?s surname, the one who made his name as an Inlay operator in the sixties and who held the summer garden parties at his home in Leatherhead. Is it Davis or Davies? I mention him in the tribute to Alan Kerridge that I?m going to submit for the Obituaries column in Prospero when I?ve added what was said about his pre-BBC life and wantto get it right.Secondly, on Radio 4 at lunchtime today the term ?fractals? was mentioned and I immediately thought of Eddie Brandon who enthused about writing programs to produce them on his BBC micro in the early eighties.This prompts me to ask, is Eddie still around and if so what?s he up to now as I can?t recall hearing anything about him on here??While on the subject, how about Kevin White and Julian Tolkien? Julian was into growing fuchsias and Kevin was kind enough to liken his expertise with them to mine with sweet peas, which compliment I would never lay claim to as I only sow and grow, whereas Julian I believe raised new varieties. Kevin was SA1 on Crew 5 where I was put for my first experience of Sound when I joined in September 1963. Among those prominent in my memory from that time were Adrian Stocks and George Ageros as well as Gordon Rolls (and there we go again). John Howell (Hibou) was there too but at least I know he?s very much still around.?There are so many people like that whom I remember from our working days and sometimes wonder about and I?m sure lots of you are the same. It would be good if someone with an old crew list could produce a kind of Presence/Absence sheet so we can see and perhaps avoid the awkwardness of enquiring after someone?s health when they?ve long gone,?Geoff Hawkes-- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -----Inline Attachment Follows----- From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Wed Jun 19 12:30:21 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 18:30:21 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Name check and roll call In-Reply-To: <2138645016.6002157.1560961956658@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2138645016.6002157.1560961956658.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2138645016.6002157.1560961956658@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I seem to recall he was a nephew of the great man. Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Critcher via Tech1 Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 5:32 PM To: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com ; Bill Jenkin Cc: Tech-Ops. co. uk email group Subject: Re: [Tech1] Name check and roll call Could i ask if Julian is/was a member of THE Tolkien family? -------------------------------------------- On Wed, 19/6/19, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 wrote: Subject: Re: [Tech1] Name check and roll call To: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Cc: "Tech-Ops. co. uk email group" Date: Wednesday, 19 June, 2019, 18:25 Geoff On the Roger Davis front it is Davis. I am sure people will know the whereabouts of some of the names you mention. Julian Tolkien lived not far from me but I think he may have moved into Evesham. I used to bump into him at local farmer's markets and the like. I last saw him in our village hall after the funeral of another big Fuschia grower who lived in our village.Bill On Wed, 19 Jun 2019, 16:02 geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1, wrote: New topic alert with two unrelated questions.Firstly, can anyone tell me the correct spelling of Roger Davis?s surname, the one who made his name as an Inlay operator in the sixties and who held the summer garden parties at his home in Leatherhead. Is it Davis or Davies? I mention him in the tribute to Alan Kerridge that I?m going to submit for the Obituaries column in Prospero when I?ve added what was said about his pre-BBC life and wantto get it right.Secondly, on Radio 4 at lunchtime today the term ?fractals? was mentioned and I immediately thought of Eddie Brandon who enthused about writing programs to produce them on his BBC micro in the early eighties.This prompts me to ask, is Eddie still around and if so what?s he up to now as I can?t recall hearing anything about him on here? While on the subject, how about Kevin White and Julian Tolkien? Julian was into growing fuchsias and Kevin was kind enough to liken his expertise with them to mine with sweet peas, which compliment I would never lay claim to as I only sow and grow, whereas Julian I believe raised new varieties. Kevin was SA1 on Crew 5 where I was put for my first experience of Sound when I joined in September 1963. Among those prominent in my memory from that time were Adrian Stocks and George Ageros as well as Gordon Rolls (and there we go again). John Howell (Hibou) was there too but at least I know he?s very much still around. There are so many people like that whom I remember from our working days and sometimes wonder about and I?m sure lots of you are the same. It would be good if someone with an old crew list could produce a kind of Presence/Absence sheet so we can see and perhaps avoid the awkwardness of enquiring after someone?s health when they?ve long gone, Geoff Hawkes-- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -----Inline Attachment Follows----- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com Wed Jun 19 13:39:07 2019 From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 19:39:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Name check and roll call In-Reply-To: References: <2138645016.6002157.1560961956658.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2138645016.6002157.1560961956658@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F5E8CA0-A64B-47EA-9C89-81DDB05E1010@btinternet.com> Hi Dave, Julian is indeed the nephew of JRR Tolkein. He?s alive and well and living in Dodford near Bromsgrove, Worcestershire. Barry. On 19 Jun 2019, at 18:30, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > I seem to recall he was a nephew of the great man. > > Dave Newbitt. > > -----Original Message----- From: Gary Critcher via Tech1 > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 5:32 PM > To: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com ; Bill Jenkin > Cc: Tech-Ops. co. uk email group > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Name check and roll call > > Could i ask if Julian is/was a member of THE Tolkien family? > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 19/6/19, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 wrote: > > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Name check and roll call > To: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com > Cc: "Tech-Ops. co. uk email group" > Date: Wednesday, 19 June, 2019, 18:25 > > Geoff On > the Roger Davis front it is Davis. > I am sure people will know the > whereabouts of some of the names you mention. Julian Tolkien > lived not far from me but I think he may have moved into > Evesham. I used to bump into him at local farmer's > markets and the like. I last saw him in our village hall > after the funeral of another big Fuschia grower who lived in > our village.Bill > > On Wed, 19 Jun > 2019, 16:02 geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1, > wrote: > New topic alert with two unrelated > questions.Firstly, can anyone tell me the > correct spelling of Roger Davis?s surname, the one who > made his name as an Inlay operator in the sixties and who > held the summer garden parties at his home in Leatherhead. > Is it Davis or Davies? I mention him in the tribute > to Alan Kerridge that I?m going to submit for the > Obituaries column in Prospero when I?ve added what was > said about his pre-BBC life and wantto get it > right.Secondly, on Radio 4 at lunchtime > today the term ?fractals? was mentioned and I > immediately thought of Eddie Brandon who enthused > about writing programs to produce them on his BBC micro in > the early eighties.This prompts me to ask, is Eddie > still around and if so what?s he up to now as I can?t > recall hearing anything about him on > here? While on the subject, how about > Kevin White and Julian Tolkien? Julian was > into growing fuchsias and Kevin was kind enough to liken his > expertise with them to mine with sweet peas, which > compliment I would never lay claim to as I only sow and > grow, whereas Julian I believe raised new varieties. Kevin > was SA1 on Crew 5 where I was put for my first experience of > Sound when I joined in September 1963. Among those prominent > in my memory from that time were Adrian Stocks and > George Ageros as well as Gordon Rolls (and > there we go again). John Howell (Hibou) was there too > but at least I know he?s very much still > around. There are so many people like that > whom I remember from our working days and sometimes wonder > about and I?m sure lots of you are the same. It would be > good if someone with an old crew list could produce a kind > of Presence/Absence sheet so we can see and perhaps avoid > the awkwardness of enquiring after someone?s health when > they?ve long gone, Geoff > Hawkes-- > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com Wed Jun 19 13:42:39 2019 From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 19:42:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Name check and roll call In-Reply-To: References: <2138645016.6002157.1560961956658.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2138645016.6002157.1560961956658@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Apologies for my spelling error?. ?Tolkien? of course. Barry. On 19 Jun 2019, at 18:30, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > I seem to recall he was a nephew of the great man. > > Dave Newbitt. > > -----Original Message----- From: Gary Critcher via Tech1 > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 5:32 PM > To: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com ; Bill Jenkin > Cc: Tech-Ops. co. uk email group > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Name check and roll call > > Could i ask if Julian is/was a member of THE Tolkien family? > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 19/6/19, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 wrote: > > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Name check and roll call > To: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com > Cc: "Tech-Ops. co. uk email group" > Date: Wednesday, 19 June, 2019, 18:25 > > Geoff On > the Roger Davis front it is Davis. > I am sure people will know the > whereabouts of some of the names you mention. Julian Tolkien > lived not far from me but I think he may have moved into > Evesham. I used to bump into him at local farmer's > markets and the like. I last saw him in our village hall > after the funeral of another big Fuschia grower who lived in > our village.Bill > > On Wed, 19 Jun > 2019, 16:02 geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1, > wrote: > New topic alert with two unrelated > questions.Firstly, can anyone tell me the > correct spelling of Roger Davis?s surname, the one who > made his name as an Inlay operator in the sixties and who > held the summer garden parties at his home in Leatherhead. > Is it Davis or Davies? I mention him in the tribute > to Alan Kerridge that I?m going to submit for the > Obituaries column in Prospero when I?ve added what was > said about his pre-BBC life and wantto get it > right.Secondly, on Radio 4 at lunchtime > today the term ?fractals? was mentioned and I > immediately thought of Eddie Brandon who enthused > about writing programs to produce them on his BBC micro in > the early eighties.This prompts me to ask, is Eddie > still around and if so what?s he up to now as I can?t > recall hearing anything about him on > here? While on the subject, how about > Kevin White and Julian Tolkien? Julian was > into growing fuchsias and Kevin was kind enough to liken his > expertise with them to mine with sweet peas, which > compliment I would never lay claim to as I only sow and > grow, whereas Julian I believe raised new varieties. Kevin > was SA1 on Crew 5 where I was put for my first experience of > Sound when I joined in September 1963. Among those prominent > in my memory from that time were Adrian Stocks and > George Ageros as well as Gordon Rolls (and > there we go again). John Howell (Hibou) was there too > but at least I know he?s very much still > around. There are so many people like that > whom I remember from our working days and sometimes wonder > about and I?m sure lots of you are the same. It would be > good if someone with an old crew list could produce a kind > of Presence/Absence sheet so we can see and perhaps avoid > the awkwardness of enquiring after someone?s health when > they?ve long gone, Geoff > Hawkes-- > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.fox at tiscali.co.uk Wed Jun 19 13:49:29 2019 From: peter.fox at tiscali.co.uk (Peter Fox) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 19:49:29 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Name check and roll call In-Reply-To: <3F5E8CA0-A64B-47EA-9C89-81DDB05E1010@btinternet.com> References: <2138645016.6002157.1560961956658.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2138645016.6002157.1560961956658@mail.yahoo.com> <3F5E8CA0-A64B-47EA-9C89-81DDB05E1010@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <56438C86-079C-4073-91CB-DB1BAF603A7D@tiscali.co.uk> I second that. At least of last Christmas card exchange 2018. Jules had finally moved north to Dodford. Peter Fox > On 19 Jun 2019, at 19:39, Barry Bonner via Tech1 wrote: > > Hi Dave, > Julian is indeed the nephew of JRR Tolkein. He?s alive and well and living in Dodford near Bromsgrove, Worcestershire. > Barry. > > > >> On 19 Jun 2019, at 18:30, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: >> >> I seem to recall he was a nephew of the great man. >> >> Dave Newbitt. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Gary Critcher via Tech1 >> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 5:32 PM >> To: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com ; Bill Jenkin >> Cc: Tech-Ops. co. uk email group >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Name check and roll call >> >> Could i ask if Julian is/was a member of THE Tolkien family? >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------- >> On Wed, 19/6/19, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Name check and roll call >> To: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com >> Cc: "Tech-Ops. co. uk email group" >> Date: Wednesday, 19 June, 2019, 18:25 >> >> Geoff On >> the Roger Davis front it is Davis. >> I am sure people will know the >> whereabouts of some of the names you mention. Julian Tolkien >> lived not far from me but I think he may have moved into >> Evesham. I used to bump into him at local farmer's >> markets and the like. I last saw him in our village hall >> after the funeral of another big Fuschia grower who lived in >> our village.Bill >> >> On Wed, 19 Jun >> 2019, 16:02 geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1, >> wrote: >> New topic alert with two unrelated >> questions.Firstly, can anyone tell me the >> correct spelling of Roger Davis?s surname, the one who >> made his name as an Inlay operator in the sixties and who >> held the summer garden parties at his home in Leatherhead. >> Is it Davis or Davies? I mention him in the tribute >> to Alan Kerridge that I?m going to submit for the >> Obituaries column in Prospero when I?ve added what was >> said about his pre-BBC life and wantto get it >> right.Secondly, on Radio 4 at lunchtime >> today the term ?fractals? was mentioned and I >> immediately thought of Eddie Brandon who enthused >> about writing programs to produce them on his BBC micro in >> the early eighties.This prompts me to ask, is Eddie >> still around and if so what?s he up to now as I can?t >> recall hearing anything about him on >> here? While on the subject, how about >> Kevin White and Julian Tolkien? Julian was >> into growing fuchsias and Kevin was kind enough to liken his >> expertise with them to mine with sweet peas, which >> compliment I would never lay claim to as I only sow and >> grow, whereas Julian I believe raised new varieties. Kevin >> was SA1 on Crew 5 where I was put for my first experience of >> Sound when I joined in September 1963. Among those prominent >> in my memory from that time were Adrian Stocks and >> George Ageros as well as Gordon Rolls (and >> there we go again). John Howell (Hibou) was there too >> but at least I know he?s very much still >> around. There are so many people like that >> whom I remember from our working days and sometimes wonder >> about and I?m sure lots of you are the same. It would be >> good if someone with an old crew list could produce a kind >> of Presence/Absence sheet so we can see and perhaps avoid >> the awkwardness of enquiring after someone?s health when >> they?ve long gone, Geoff >> Hawkes-- >> Tech1 mailing list >> >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Wed Jun 19 15:38:30 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 20:38:30 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> Message-ID: I?ve always written it as CD?s because it?s an abbreviation, and CD isn?t a word in itself, and therefore you can?t pluralise it simply by adding an s. If I had written Compact Discs I wouldn?t have written disc?s any more than I would have pluralised horse as horse?s. Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 19 Jun 2019, at 13:14, terrymeadowcroft > wrote: Alert - incorrect use of apostophe! ;-) ! Sorry, always alerts me! Terry CDs is CDs! ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Ware via Tech1 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help! Presumably you don?t mean audio CD?s because once finalised (made playable on a CD player) you can?t add further tracks. For audio CD?s to Red Book spec, I use CD Architect (was SonicFoundry, then Sony, now Magix). For data CD?s I use Roxio Creator 2012. It?s not the latest version, but for my purposes I see no need to upgrade. Why not just add the new data to the folder you burnt the CD from last time, and burn a new disk? Blank disks are dirt cheap, and by burning to a new disk you extend the safe storage life of the data (Burnable CD?s don?t last forever). I have steered clear of Nero because over the years a lot of people on the IPS forums have had problems with it. Don?t know anything about Ashampoo, I?m afraid. Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 19 Jun 2019, at 01:35, dave.mdv via Tech1 > wrote: When I first got a CD burner I used Nero, but that got bigger and bigger and more complicated. Then I discovered Ashampoo, which was much smaller and did the job OK. Now, I'm finding that Ashampoo is taking at least 5 minutes between each step to burning anything. I have tried other progs. but none of them will allow me just to add items to an already recorded CD, which Ashampoo does. I'm told that Roxio does, but I don't know which version to go for. Any ideas? Cheers, Dave -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ________________________________ -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Wed Jun 19 17:12:50 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 23:12:50 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> Message-ID: I?m with Nick on this ~ for the very same reason, but I suppose some will then argue that it ought to C?D?s. But CDs, VTs, etc., just looks wrong to me. Mike G > On 19 Jun 2019, at 21:38, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > I?ve always written it as CD?s because it?s an abbreviation, and CD isn?t a word in itself, and therefore you can?t pluralise it simply by adding an s. If I had written Compact Discs I wouldn?t have written disc?s any more than I would have pluralised horse as horse?s. > Cheers, > Nick. > Sent from my iPad > > On 19 Jun 2019, at 13:14, terrymeadowcroft > wrote: > >> Alert - incorrect use of apostophe! ;-) ! >> >> Sorry, always alerts me! >> >> Terry >> >> CDs is CDs! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Nick Ware via Tech1 >> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 10:01 AM >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help! >> >> Presumably you don?t mean audio CD?s because once finalised (made playable on a CD player) you can?t add further tracks. For audio CD?s to Red Book spec, I use CD Architect (was SonicFoundry, then Sony, now Magix). >> For data CD?s I use Roxio Creator 2012. It?s not the latest version, but for my purposes I see no need to upgrade. >> Why not just add the new data to the folder you burnt the CD from last time, and burn a new disk? Blank disks are dirt cheap, and by burning to a new disk you extend the safe storage life of the data (Burnable CD?s don?t last forever). >> I have steered clear of Nero because over the years a lot of people on the IPS forums have had problems with it. Don?t know anything about Ashampoo, I?m afraid. >> Cheers, >> Nick. >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 19 Jun 2019, at 01:35, dave.mdv via Tech1 > wrote: >> >>> When I first got a CD burner I used Nero, but that got bigger and bigger and more complicated. Then I discovered Ashampoo, which was much smaller and did the job OK. Now, I'm finding that Ashampoo is taking at least 5 minutes between each step to burning anything. I have tried other progs. but none of them will allow me just to add items to an already recorded CD, which Ashampoo does. I'm told that Roxio does, but I don't know which version to go for. Any ideas? Cheers, Dave >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Thu Jun 20 01:39:15 2019 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 07:39:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> Message-ID: Hi all, On 19/06/2019 23:12, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > But CDs, VTs, etc., just looks wrong to me According to the Chicago Manual of Style - my "bible" when writing user documentation and quality procedures when I was working -? "? .... Chicago omits the apostrophe in the plurals of initialisms, while acknowledging its usefulness in some cases, particularly with the plural form of lowercase letters (e.g., /x/?s and /o/?s). (Not that punctuation is necessarily logical, you know; sometimes it is simply based on convention.)..." -- Best Regards Alec Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com mob: 07789 561 346 home: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hughsheppard at btinternet.com Thu Jun 20 01:54:02 2019 From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 07:54:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Name check and roll call In-Reply-To: References: <2138645016.6002157.1560961956658.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2138645016.6002157.1560961956658@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: All, Julian Tolkien - and Mrs. T. - are alive and well and living near enough to Chippenham to attend the service for the late John Hays earlier this month. Hugh On 19-Jun-19 6:30 PM, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > I seem to recall he was a nephew of the great man. > > Dave Newbitt. > > -----Original Message----- From: Gary Critcher via Tech1 > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 5:32 PM > To: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com ; Bill Jenkin > Cc: Tech-Ops. co. uk email group > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Name check and roll call > > Could i ask if Julian is/was a member of THE Tolkien family? > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > On Wed, 19/6/19, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 wrote: > > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Name check and roll call > To: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com > Cc: "Tech-Ops. co. uk email group" > Date: Wednesday, 19 June, 2019, 18:25 > > Geoff On > the Roger Davis front it is Davis. > I am sure people will know the > whereabouts of some of the names you mention. Julian Tolkien > lived not far from me but I think he may have moved into > Evesham. I used to bump into him at local farmer's > markets and the like. I last saw him in our village hall > after the funeral of another big Fuschia grower who lived in > our village.Bill > > On Wed, 19 Jun > 2019, 16:02 geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1, > wrote: > New topic alert with two unrelated > questions.Firstly, can anyone tell me the > correct spelling of Roger Davis?s surname, the one who > made his name as an Inlay operator in the sixties and who > held the summer garden parties at his home in Leatherhead. > Is it Davis or Davies? I mention him in the tribute > to Alan Kerridge that I?m going to submit for the > Obituaries column in Prospero when I?ve added what was > said about his pre-BBC life and wantto get it > right.Secondly, on Radio 4 at lunchtime > today the term ?fractals? was mentioned and I > immediately thought of Eddie Brandon who enthused > about writing programs to produce them on his BBC micro in > the early eighties.This prompts me to ask, is Eddie > still around and if so what?s he up to now as I can?t > recall hearing anything about him on > here? While on the subject, how about > Kevin White and Julian Tolkien? Julian was > into growing fuchsias and Kevin was kind enough to liken his > expertise with them to mine with sweet peas, which > compliment I would never lay claim to as I only sow and > grow, whereas Julian I believe raised new varieties. Kevin > was SA1 on Crew 5 where I was put for my first experience of > Sound when I joined in September 1963. Among those prominent > in my memory from that time were Adrian Stocks and > George Ageros as well as Gordon Rolls (and > there we go again). John Howell (Hibou) was there too > but at least I know he?s very much still > around. There are so many people like that > whom I remember from our working days and sometimes wonder > about and I?m sure lots of you are the same. It would be > good if someone with an old crew list could produce a kind > of Presence/Absence sheet so we can see and perhaps avoid > the awkwardness of enquiring after someone?s health when > they?ve long gone, Geoff > Hawkes-- > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk Thu Jun 20 04:24:02 2019 From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 10:24:02 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> Message-ID: <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> > On 19/06/2019 23:12, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >> But CDs, VTs, etc., just looks wrong to me > > According to the Chicago Manual of Style - my "bible" when writing > user documentation and quality procedures when I was working -? "? > .... Chicago omits the apostrophe in the plurals of initialisms, while > acknowledging its usefulness in some cases, particularly with the > plural form of lowercase letters (e.g., /x/?s and /o/?s). (Not that > punctuation is necessarily logical, you know; sometimes it is simply > based on convention.)..." > > Alec Bray The Oxford version (Hart's Rules) for this side of the pond agrees with that too. "CD's" is just wrong - sorry Nick;} Chris Woolf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From keithwicksuk at gmail.com Thu Jun 20 05:21:51 2019 From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 11:21:51 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's some information about adding tracks to already burnt CDs or DVDs: If your preferred storage medium is a good old CD or DVD and you regularly burn music files , then creating a multisession disc is a must. A multisession disc lets you burn data to the same disc in more than one writing session. If you have space after a writing session, you can write more files at a later date by using a multisession disc. More information at: https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-create-a-multisession-disc-2438838 I've done this in the distant past. The resulting (data) discs could be used on computers but were not compatible with most standard optical disc players. I probably used Roxio Toast on my Mac. KW *From:* Nick Ware via Tech1 > *To:* tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 19, 2019 10:01 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Help! > > Presumably you don?t mean audio CD?s because once finalised (made playable > on a CD player) you can?t add further tracks. For audio CD?s to Red Book > spec, I use CD Architect (was SonicFoundry, then Sony, now Magix). > For data CD?s I use Roxio Creator 2012. It?s not the latest version, but > for my purposes I see no need to upgrade. > Why not just add the new data to the folder you burnt the CD from last > time, and burn a new disk? Blank disks are dirt cheap, and by burning to a > new disk you extend the safe storage life of the data (Burnable CD?s don?t > last forever). > I have steered clear of Nero because over the years a lot of people on the > IPS forums have had problems with it. Don?t know anything about Ashampoo, > I?m afraid. > Cheers, > Nick. > Sent from my iPad > > On 19 Jun 2019, at 01:35, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > > When I first got a CD burner I used Nero, but that got bigger and bigger > and more complicated. Then I discovered Ashampoo, which was much smaller > and did the job OK. Now, I'm finding that Ashampoo is taking at least 5 > minutes between each step to burning anything. I have tried other progs. > but none of them will allow me just to add items to an already recorded CD, > which Ashampoo does. I'm told that Roxio does, but I don't know which > version to go for. Any ideas? Cheers, Dave > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jun 20 09:44:23 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 15:44:23 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <5d0b9bc8.1c69fb81.209af.a494@mx.google.com> I always try to remember that an apostrophe represents a missing ?i? Hence ?it?s? against ?its? - two different meanings. But how can anyone reference an American ?bible? when the Yanks cannot spell? (sorry Alec). Aluminum Theater Center I allow their use of ?gotten? as this came from the Mayflower immigrants, originally from the West Country, where their style of speech was transported to the US. (but isn?t ?trump? another word for ?fart? in the UK?) Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Chris Woolf via Tech1 Sent: 20 June 2019 10:24 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help! On 19/06/2019 23:12, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: But CDs, VTs, etc., just looks wrong to me According to the Chicago Manual of Style - my "bible" when writing user documentation and quality procedures when I was working -? "? .... Chicago omits the apostrophe in the plurals of initialisms, while acknowledging its usefulness in some cases, particularly with the plural form of lowercase letters (e.g., x?s and o?s). (Not that punctuation is necessarily logical, you know; sometimes it is simply based on convention.)..." Alec Bray The Oxford version (Hart's Rules) for this side of the pond agrees with that too. "CD's" is just wrong - sorry Nick;} Chris Woolf Virus-free. www.avast.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alawrance1 at me.com Thu Jun 20 10:27:55 2019 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 16:27:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: <5d0b9bc8.1c69fb81.209af.a494@mx.google.com> References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <5d0b9bc8.1c69fb81.209af.a494@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <997BD5F0-C342-44C3-A3CD-24B70194F1B1@me.com> Not if you?re playing bridge it doesn?t.... Alasdair Lawrance Sent from my iPad Pro. > On 20 Jun 2019, at 15:44, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: > > I always try to remember that an apostrophe represents a missing ?i? > Hence ?it?s? against ?its? - two different meanings. > But how can anyone reference an American ?bible? when the Yanks cannot spell? (sorry Alec). > Aluminum > Theater > Center > > I allow their use of ?gotten? as this came from the Mayflower immigrants, originally from the West Country, where their style of speech was transported to the US. > (but isn?t ?trump? another word for ?fart? in the UK?) > > Pat > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Chris Woolf via Tech1 > Sent: 20 June 2019 10:24 > To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help! > > > > On 19/06/2019 23:12, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > But CDs, VTs, etc., just looks wrong to me > According to the Chicago Manual of Style - my "bible" when writing user documentation and quality procedures when I was working - " .... Chicago omits the apostrophe in the plurals of initialisms, while acknowledging its usefulness in some cases, particularly with the plural form of lowercase letters (e.g., x?s and o?s). (Not that punctuation is necessarily logical, you know; sometimes it is simply based on convention.)..." > > Alec Bray > The Oxford version (Hart's Rules) for this side of the pond agrees with that too. "CD's" is just wrong - sorry Nick;} > > Chris Woolf > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jun 20 11:11:15 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 17:11:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: <997BD5F0-C342-44C3-A3CD-24B70194F1B1@me.com> References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <5d0b9bc8.1c69fb81.209af.a494@mx.google.com> <997BD5F0-C342-44C3-A3CD-24B70194F1B1@me.com> Message-ID: <5d0bb025.1c69fb81.3c465.0040@mx.google.com> True! This reminds me of a flight to USA for Thames ? the camera assistant, a lovely guy, invited me to play cribbage ? I had never played before. After beating him three times in a row, he gave up! Later, on a film in the Caribbean, the camera crew enticed me to a water ski exercise. (never done it before). They helped me up behind the boat, and I enjoyed an exciting run around the bay, even crossing the wake, and on the final turn back to the beach, drifted ashore and stepped out onto dry land. Never got my hair wet! ?You?ve done this before? they complained. Nope! But I had done snow skiing ? think that helped! Moral: Don?t mess with the sound crew! Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Alasdair Lawrance Sent: 20 June 2019 16:28 To: patheigham Cc: Chris Woolf; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help! Not if you?re playing bridge it doesn?t.... Alasdair Lawrance Sent from my iPad Pro. On 20 Jun 2019, at 15:44, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: (but isn?t ?trump? another word for ?fart? in the UK?) ? Pat ? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jun 20 11:29:10 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 17:29:10 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <5d0b9bc8.1c69fb81.209af.a494@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5d0bb457.1c69fb81.1e32c.04ca@mx.google.com> OK, I suppose I accept that. In my formative years at school, we were tasked with mounting some sort of demonstration for our fond parents on Speech Day. I was tasked with ?anodising and dyeing aluminium?. This was actually fascinating, as I learned about the mining of the ore (bauxite) to produce the product. So I know how to colour a frying pan! Not a lot of use to the BBC! Ah! Chemistry masters. One of mine, when demonstrating the properties of Conc Nitric Acid, popped his cufflinks into a test tube, saying that Nitric acid has no effect on gold. Violent reaction. Frantic tipping under water. ?Well, I thought they were gold!? Best Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Geoff Fletcher Sent: 20 June 2019 16:58 To: patheigham Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help! Aluminum was the original name given when the element was first discovered in the USA. We in the UK added the ?i" later to bring the name into line with other elements - e.g. Helium, Titanium, Ytterbium, Thallium, etc etc. At least, that is what my Chemistry master told us long ago. Geoff F --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Thu Jun 20 11:47:39 2019 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 17:47:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: <997BD5F0-C342-44C3-A3CD-24B70194F1B1@me.com> References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <5d0b9bc8.1c69fb81.209af.a494@mx.google.com> <997BD5F0-C342-44C3-A3CD-24B70194F1B1@me.com> Message-ID: Hi all (especially Pat|!) > But how can anyone reference an American ?bible? when the Yanks cannot > spell? (sorry Alec) Well, it's like this....we were selling product worldwide, and whilst the English (et al) accept American usage, the Yanks don't understand *British English *usage.? My colleagues Stateside said that the manuals had to be read and understood by someone in the mid-West. Luckily in the technical manuals there were not too many problems - never had to use "in back" instead of "out the back" for example! But what about the English "ill-gotten gains" ? -- Best Regards Alec Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com mob: 07789 561 346 home: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Thu Jun 20 15:32:22 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 20:32:22 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> , <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk>, Message-ID: Now here?s an interesting thing - well to me, anyway. For about 20 years I have recorded all the spoken and sung support material for an educational book publisher (except when two projects running in parallel force me to farm some out to others). The books are English language learning courses, and learning-to-sing courses, for young children in many countries, including this one. Until now each project has consisted of lavishly illustrated books for the children, and a master copy for the teacher. Because in some countries there may not necessarily be a teacher with good English, there is a set of 8 CDs, each with up to 99 short tracks. Because British English and American English are recognised as effectively different languages, there are two versions of everything. Bizaarly, I find on looking back over several years of emails, that they and I have always referred to CDs, not CD?s. So now I have to ask myself why I suddenly got that wrong here, and why I insisted I was right! So from now on it?s CDs! Just in case it?s of any interest: they have now dropped the CD format (mainly due to cost) and gone in two, arguably, more future-proof directions. The first is an iPad App where every pupil has an iPad and simply touches on the appropriate images, which may be letters, words, phrases, or even songs, and they hear the audio. By touching successive words, images and pages it can tell a whole story. The other uses the same lavishly printed books, except that hidden under the top ink layers there are QR-style coded patches of data, visible only by a midget camera in the tip of a fat ?pen? that I can only say, looks like a handbag sized vibrator! (How do I know?). The pen contains around 3500 mp3 files, triggered by the coded patches, and a tiny loudspeaker at the top of the pen sounds the audio. The question is, are the files mp3s or mp3?s? Now that really doesn?t look right either way! I?ll play safe and go without the apostrophe! Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 20 Jun 2019, at 11:21, Nick Ware > wrote: Oh bums, I thought I?d won that one! Maybe it could be an ?exception?? English is full of those. Nick. Sent from my iPad On 20 Jun 2019, at 10:24, Chris Woolf via Tech1 > wrote: On 19/06/2019 23:12, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: But CDs, VTs, etc., just looks wrong to me According to the Chicago Manual of Style - my "bible" when writing user documentation and quality procedures when I was working - " .... Chicago omits the apostrophe in the plurals of initialisms, while acknowledging its usefulness in some cases, particularly with the plural form of lowercase letters (e.g., x?s and o?s). (Not that punctuation is necessarily logical, you know; sometimes it is simply based on convention.)..." Alec Bray The Oxford version (Hart's Rules) for this side of the pond agrees with that too. "CD's" is just wrong - sorry Nick;} Chris Woolf [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif] Virus-free. www.avast.com -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Thu Jun 20 15:38:03 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 21:38:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Apostrophi In-Reply-To: References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> Message-ID: <093b9579-c250-d873-eb53-d6ee4fd92576@btinternet.com> I always believed that the use of the ap.... denoted possession or ownership by the item to which the ap.... is attached. Plurals, just add the 's'. Simplez! Cheers, Dave. From alawrance1 at me.com Thu Jun 20 15:48:46 2019 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 21:48:46 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Apostrophi In-Reply-To: <093b9579-c250-d873-eb53-d6ee4fd92576@btinternet.com> References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <093b9579-c250-d873-eb53-d6ee4fd92576@btinternet.com> Message-ID: You?re right Dave, but it?s also an abbreviation of ?it is?, as in ?D?you think it?s cold out?? Alasdair Lawrance Sent from my iPad Pro. > On 20 Jun 2019, at 21:38, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > > I always believed that the use of the ap.... denoted possession or ownership by the item to which the ap.... is attached. Plurals, just add the 's'. Simplez! Cheers, Dave. > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From Waresound at msn.com Thu Jun 20 16:29:11 2019 From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 21:29:11 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Apostrophi In-Reply-To: References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <093b9579-c250-d873-eb53-d6ee4fd92576@btinternet.com>, Message-ID: As I said, life?s full of exceptions ;) Nick. Sent from my iPad On 20 Jun 2019, at 21:48, Alasdair Lawrance > wrote: You?re right Dave, but it?s also an abbreviation of ?it is?, as in ?D?you think it?s cold out?? Alasdair Lawrance Sent from my iPad Pro. On 20 Jun 2019, at 21:38, dave.mdv via Tech1 > wrote: I always believed that the use of the ap.... denoted possession or ownership by the item to which the ap.... is attached. Plurals, just add the 's'. Simplez! Cheers, Dave. -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Thu Jun 20 18:52:01 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 00:52:01 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Ap.... Message-ID: I'm amazed that no-one has slagged me off for putting apostrophI instead of apostropheS! Come on you pedants, get typing! On another e-mail to a mate I have just used 'won't' instead of 'will not', I wonder how that form came about? Poor foreigners trying to learn English, if we can't agree what chance do they stand? Cheers, Dave. From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Thu Jun 20 19:08:38 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 01:08:38 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9b68994e-cfc7-3f1f-b196-059c07259ccd@btinternet.com> Thanks Keith,, I had already d/ld that ref. yesterday when I d/ld the burning program! Cheers, Dave From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Thu Jun 20 19:22:10 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 01:22:10 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Verboten subject Message-ID: <3e6cc51a-cff1-bcf0-f768-f2ef1a6e4e7c@btinternet.com> I can't resist reminding the nation about our future prime minister's attempts to be human! Cheers, Dave -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Flying Boris Type: image/jpeg Size: 40095 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Thu Jun 20 19:51:21 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 01:51:21 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Flying Boris In-Reply-To: <3e6cc51a-cff1-bcf0-f768-f2ef1a6e4e7c@btinternet.com> References: <3e6cc51a-cff1-bcf0-f768-f2ef1a6e4e7c@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <882df75a-4772-709c-6352-921e353c655d@btinternet.com> Do you think that Angela Merkel will think that the Luftwaffe would sort him out? Cheers, Dave From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Fri Jun 21 03:44:16 2019 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 09:44:16 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Verboten subject In-Reply-To: <3e6cc51a-cff1-bcf0-f768-f2ef1a6e4e7c@btinternet.com> References: <3e6cc51a-cff1-bcf0-f768-f2ef1a6e4e7c@btinternet.com> Message-ID: I thought there was a 'no-fly zone' for drones over Uxbridge due to the proximity of Heathrow. John H. On 21/06/2019 01:22, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > I can't resist reminding the nation about our future prime minister's > attempts to be human! Cheers, Dave > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fkpjnhfdkecagabk.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 40095 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Fri Jun 21 05:25:56 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 11:25:56 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Verboten subject In-Reply-To: <3e6cc51a-cff1-bcf0-f768-f2ef1a6e4e7c@btinternet.com> References: <3e6cc51a-cff1-bcf0-f768-f2ef1a6e4e7c@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Seems to me if you choose to act the buffoon you can hardly be surprised if many folk come to regard you as being one. Even if the underlying intelligence is greater than the act suggests it is at best questionable whether sound judgement is being brought to the matter of his public persona. Dave Newbitt. -----Original Message----- From: dave.mdv via Tech1 Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 1:22 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Verboten subject I can't resist reminding the nation about our future prime minister's attempts to be human! Cheers, Dave -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From bernie833 at gmail.com Fri Jun 21 06:50:49 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 12:50:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Verboten subject In-Reply-To: References: <3e6cc51a-cff1-bcf0-f768-f2ef1a6e4e7c@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <82ce0080-d4e7-deb9-c915-dc95f957a2ca@ntlworld.com> It is indeed a verboten subject and could lead to being banned. Signed Moderator in Chief > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoffletch at gmail.com Fri Jun 21 07:31:57 2019 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 13:31:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Verboten subject In-Reply-To: <82ce0080-d4e7-deb9-c915-dc95f957a2ca@ntlworld.com> References: <3e6cc51a-cff1-bcf0-f768-f2ef1a6e4e7c@btinternet.com> <82ce0080-d4e7-deb9-c915-dc95f957a2ca@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: Hear hear! No politics or Brexit please. There are other forums in which to air one?s views on these things. Geoff F On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 12:51, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 < tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > It is indeed a verboten subject and could lead to being banned. > > Signed > > Moderator in Chief > > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Jun 21 07:56:57 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 13:56:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Verboten subject In-Reply-To: <82ce0080-d4e7-deb9-c915-dc95f957a2ca@ntlworld.com> References: <3e6cc51a-cff1-bcf0-f768-f2ef1a6e4e7c@btinternet.com> <82ce0080-d4e7-deb9-c915-dc95f957a2ca@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <5d0cd41b.1c69fb81.681c0.eea6@mx.google.com> Let?s leave it to HIGNFY or Mock The Week to operate a more destructive ?extraction of the Michael? Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 21 June 2019 12:51 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Cc: Bernard Newnham Subject: Re: [Tech1] Verboten subject It is indeed a verboten subject and could lead to being banned. Signed Moderator in Chief --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rogerbunce at btinternet.com Fri Jun 21 09:43:31 2019 From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:43:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] Ap.... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <342037494.98040.1561128211060@mail.yahoo.com> ????Long ago, I was playing a game of 'Hangman' with my very young granddaughter. She challenged me with a three-letter word. I started guessing, and she started building my gallows. I'd been through all the vowels, including 'y', without any success. I protested that you couldn't have a word without a vowel. Yes, she could, she insisted.? ? Eventually, probably after I'd been strung-up, she revealed that the answer was 'DVD'! ? ? "That's not a word!" I objected. ? ? "Yes, it is!" she cried, pointing at a DVD sleeve, with the word 'DVD' written on it. Fair point, 'DVD' has now achieved the status of a 'word'. ? ? Once upon a time, we used to distinguish abbreviations by putting full stops after each letter: B.B.C., I.T.V., S.N.P., U.S.A., F.B.I., C.I.A., W.H.O., etc. Now we seem to have abandoned the full-stops, but we still use upper-case letters. Where the abbreviation forms a pronounceable word, i.e. an acronym, we don't even bother with the capitals, e.g. 'laser', 'radar', 'sonar', 'scuba', etc. I would be nice to think that the rule was: when the abbreviation is pronounced as word, it can be written lower case, but where each letter is enunciated separately (e.g. Bee, Bee, Cee) we still use capitals. But this doesn't work, because there are some abbreviations which are pronounced as words, but still written upper-case: e.g. PIN, NASA, NATO, BAFTA, UNESCO, etc. And the unpronounceable abbreviation which, famously takes longer to say than the full wording, is written lower-case: 'www.' ? ? Anyway, once you accept that DVD is a word, then the plural should be made like any other word. Just add an 's' - DVDs, CDs etc. If you want to make the point that they're not proper words, you might write 'DVD's or 'CD's etc. Generally, the 's' is lower case, even when the abbreviation is in capitals. For some reason, 'MSS' for 'Manuscripts' is an exception. But there's no need for any apostrophes. (Yes, Dave. The word comes from the Greek, not the Latin, so the plural is 'apostrophes' not 'apostrophii'. Almost any word containing a 'ph' will be Greek in origin. If you really want to go mega-pedantic, tell you friends, in the geekiest possible accent, that the word 'telephone' should rhyme with 'Persephone'. It's the same final syllable. They may not stay your friends for long.) ? ? As always, I have made absolutely no attempt to check my facts before pontificating. luv, Rog. On Friday, 21 June 2019, 00:52:31 BST, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: I'm amazed that no-one has slagged me off for putting apostrophI instead of apostropheS! Come on you pedants, get typing! On another e-mail to a mate I have just used 'won't' instead of 'will not', I wonder how that form came about? Poor foreigners trying to learn English, if we can't agree what chance do they stand? Cheers, Dave. -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com Fri Jun 21 10:50:49 2019 From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (David Denness) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 16:50:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Verboten subject In-Reply-To: <5d0cd41b.1c69fb81.681c0.eea6@mx.google.com> References: <3e6cc51a-cff1-bcf0-f768-f2ef1a6e4e7c@btinternet.com> <82ce0080-d4e7-deb9-c915-dc95f957a2ca@ntlworld.com> <5d0cd41b.1c69fb81.681c0.eea6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <002701d52849$1931dec0$4b959c40$@gmail.com> Both those programmes are suspended during this election campaigning From: Tech1 On Behalf Of patheigham via Tech1 Sent: 21 June 2019 13:57 To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Verboten subject Let?s leave it to HIGNFY or Mock The Week to operate a more destructive ?extraction of the Michael? Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 21 June 2019 12:51 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Cc: Bernard Newnham Subject: Re: [Tech1] Verboten subject It is indeed a verboten subject and could lead to being banned. Signed Moderator in Chief Virus-free. www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com Fri Jun 21 11:16:52 2019 From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 17:16:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Ap.... In-Reply-To: <342037494.98040.1561128211060@mail.yahoo.com> References: <342037494.98040.1561128211060@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, On 21/06/2019 15:43, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > the word 'telephone' should rhyme with 'Persephone'. But then there would be confusion between telephone and telephony. Tonight I shall be watching proculvision? (or more likely, a PVR!) -- Best Regards Alec Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com mob: 07789 561 346 home: 0118 981 7502 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Fri Jun 21 11:25:37 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 17:25:37 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <5d0b9bc8.1c69fb81.209af.a494@mx.google.com> <997BD5F0-C342-44C3-A3CD-24B70194F1B1@me.com> Message-ID: <5d0d0503.1c69fb81.a06a3.6ba3@mx.google.com> I accept ?gotten? as I mentioned in an earlier posting, as it comes from the Mayflower immigrants from the West Country who used that form. However, having worked with US production crews, find it quicker to use their nomenclature (words), than ours. Pity, they?ve won! Example: I bought a bag of sweets ? handed it around: ?Have a sweet?? Blank faces from the Yanks. ?Oh! Have a candy? Realisation dawned. The other word I love to have fun with: The Americans would say: ?She fell on her fanny? meaning backside. I took great pleasure in informing them that in the UK, ?fanny? meant the ?front side? Usually horror struck reaction! Anyone know if Trump moved his fork from the left hand to the right to eat at the state banquet? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Alec Bray via Tech1 Sent: 20 June 2019 17:47 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help! Hi all (especially Pat|!) But how can anyone reference an American ?bible? when the Yanks cannot spell? (sorry Alec) Well, it's like this....we were selling product worldwide, and whilst the English (et al) accept American usage, the Yanks don't understand British English usage.? My colleagues Stateside said that the manuals had to be read and understood by someone in the mid-West.? Luckily in the technical manuals there were not too many problems - never had to use "in back" instead of "out the back" for example! But what about the English "ill-gotten gains" ? -- Best Regards Alec Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com mob: 07789 561 346 home: 0118 981 7502 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From keithwicksuk at gmail.com Fri Jun 21 11:57:06 2019 From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 17:57:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Ap.... In-Reply-To: References: <342037494.98040.1561128211060@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Or perhaps you might watch your teleopsis? KW On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 17:17, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote: > Hi, > On 21/06/2019 15:43, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > > the word 'telephone' should rhyme with 'Persephone'. > > But then there would be confusion between telephone and telephony. > > Tonight I shall be watching proculvision (or more likely, a PVR!) > > > -- > > Best Regards > > Alec > > Alec Bray > alec.bray.2 at gmail.com > mob: 07789 561 346 > home: 0118 981 7502 > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alawrance1 at me.com Fri Jun 21 12:54:22 2019 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 18:54:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Verboten subject In-Reply-To: <002701d52849$1931dec0$4b959c40$@gmail.com> References: <3e6cc51a-cff1-bcf0-f768-f2ef1a6e4e7c@btinternet.com> <82ce0080-d4e7-deb9-c915-dc95f957a2ca@ntlworld.com> <5d0cd41b.1c69fb81.681c0.eea6@mx.google.com> <002701d52849$1931dec0$4b959c40$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Verboten or not, ?Dead Ringers? on R4 is making hay about the Tory leadership contest. I think it might just be national, by- or Euro elections, not one where something under 180,000 self-selecting people choose the next PM. Alasdair Lawrance Sent from my iPad Pro. > On 21 Jun 2019, at 16:50, David Denness via Tech1 wrote: > > Both those programmes are suspended during this election campaigning > > From: Tech1 On Behalf Of patheigham via Tech1 > Sent: 21 June 2019 13:57 > To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Verboten subject > > Let?s leave it to HIGNFY or Mock The Week to operate a more destructive ?extraction of the Michael? > Pat > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > Sent: 21 June 2019 12:51 > To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Cc: Bernard Newnham > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Verboten subject > > It is indeed a verboten subject and could lead to being banned. > > Signed > > Moderator in Chief > > > > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waresound at msn.com Fri Jun 21 13:58:05 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 18:58:05 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: <5d0d0503.1c69fb81.a06a3.6ba3@mx.google.com> References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <5d0b9bc8.1c69fb81.209af.a494@mx.google.com> <997BD5F0-C342-44C3-A3CD-24B70194F1B1@me.com> , <5d0d0503.1c69fb81.a06a3.6ba3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I?m sure you love to have fun with fanny, Pat, but that must surely be one of the best known of all Americanisms. I?m afraid I can?t answer your last question because my invitation to the top table at the State Banquet seems to have got lost in the post. Nick. Sent from my iPad On 21 Jun 2019, at 17:26, patheigham via Tech1 > wrote: I accept ?gotten? as I mentioned in an earlier posting, as it comes from the Mayflower immigrants from the West Country who used that form. However, having worked with US production crews, find it quicker to use their nomenclature (words), than ours. Pity, they?ve won! Example: I bought a bag of sweets ? handed it around: ?Have a sweet?? Blank faces from the Yanks. ?Oh! Have a candy? Realisation dawned. The other word I love to have fun with: The Americans would say: ?She fell on her fanny? meaning backside. I took great pleasure in informing them that in the UK, ?fanny? meant the ?front side? Usually horror struck reaction! Anyone know if Trump moved his fork from the left hand to the right to eat at the state banquet? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Alec Bray via Tech1 Sent: 20 June 2019 17:47 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help! Hi all (especially Pat|!) But how can anyone reference an American ?bible? when the Yanks cannot spell? (sorry Alec) Well, it's like this....we were selling product worldwide, and whilst the English (et al) accept American usage, the Yanks don't understand British English usage. My colleagues Stateside said that the manuals had to be read and understood by someone in the mid-West. Luckily in the technical manuals there were not too many problems - never had to use "in back" instead of "out the back" for example! But what about the English "ill-gotten gains" ? -- Best Regards Alec Alec Bray alec.bray.2 at gmail.com mob: 07789 561 346 home: 0118 981 7502 [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif] Virus-free. www.avast.com -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoffletch at gmail.com Fri Jun 21 14:00:55 2019 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 20:00:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <5d0b9bc8.1c69fb81.209af.a494@mx.google.com> <997BD5F0-C342-44C3-A3CD-24B70194F1B1@me.com> <5d0d0503.1c69fb81.a06a3.6ba3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: The other Americanism I like is ?hood? - car bonnet or gangster! Geoff F On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 19:58, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > I?m sure you love to have fun with fanny, Pat, but that must surely be one > of the best known of all Americanisms. > I?m afraid I can?t answer your last question because my invitation to the > top table at the State Banquet seems to have got lost in the post. > > Nick. > Sent from my iPad > > On 21 Jun 2019, at 17:26, patheigham via Tech1 > wrote: > > I accept ?gotten? as I mentioned in an earlier posting, as it comes from > the Mayflower immigrants from the West Country who used that form. > > However, having worked with US production crews, find it quicker to use > their nomenclature (words), than ours. Pity, they?ve won! > > Example: I bought a bag of sweets ? handed it around: ?Have a sweet?? > Blank faces from the Yanks. ?Oh! Have a *candy*? Realisation dawned. > > The other word I love to have fun with: The Americans would say: > > ?She fell on her fanny? meaning backside. > > I took great pleasure in informing them that in the UK, ?fanny? meant the > ?front side? Usually horror struck reaction! > > > > Anyone know if Trump moved his fork from the left hand to the right to eat > at the state banquet? > > > > > > Sent from Mail for > Windows 10 > > > > *From: *Alec Bray via Tech1 > *Sent: *20 June 2019 17:47 > *To: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Help! > > > > Hi all (especially Pat|!) > > But how can anyone reference an American ?bible? when the Yanks cannot > spell? (sorry Alec) > > Well, it's like this....we were selling product worldwide, and whilst the > English (et al) accept American usage, the Yanks don't understand *British > English *usage. My colleagues Stateside said that the manuals had to be > read and understood by someone in the mid-West. > > Luckily in the technical manuals there were not too many problems - never > had to use "in back" instead of "out the back" for example! > > But what about the English "ill-gotten gains" ? > > -- > > > > Best Regards > > > > Alec > > > > Alec Bray > > > > alec.bray.2 at gmail.com > > mob: 07789 561 346 > > home: 0118 981 7502 > > > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_-8883962312214708062_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rogerbunce at btinternet.com Fri Jun 21 14:40:47 2019 From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 19:40:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: <5d0d0503.1c69fb81.a06a3.6ba3@mx.google.com> References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <5d0b9bc8.1c69fb81.209af.a494@mx.google.com> <997BD5F0-C342-44C3-A3CD-24B70194F1B1@me.com> <5d0d0503.1c69fb81.a06a3.6ba3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2079980376.312734.1561146047208@mail.yahoo.com> 'Tis the same in New Zealand - where Crisps are "Chips", Chips are "Hot Chips", Sweets are "Lollies", and Lollies are "Ice Blocks." ????Which brings back memories of running through the London rain with a female friend from NZ. We leapt onto a train and she exclaimed, slightly too loudly, "My pants are wet!"????I explained that, in this country it's best to say, "Trousers." In the UK, if you sit next to someone and say, "My pants are wet!" They tend to move away from you. luv, Rog.? On Friday, 21 June 2019, 17:26:32 BST, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: I accept ?gotten? as I mentioned in an earlier posting, as it comes from the Mayflower immigrants from the West Country who used that form. However, having worked with US production crews, find it quicker to use their nomenclature (words), than ours. Pity, they?ve won! Example: I bought a bag of sweets ? handed it around: ?Have a sweet?? Blank faces from the Yanks. ?Oh! Have a candy? Realisation dawned. The other word I love to have fun with: The Americans would say: ?She fell on her fanny? meaning backside. I took great pleasure in informing them that in the UK, ?fanny? meant the ?front side? Usually horror struck reaction! ? Anyone know if Trump moved his fork from the left hand to the right to eat at the state banquet? ? ? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ? From: Alec Bray via Tech1 Sent: 20 June 2019 17:47 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help! ? Hi all (especially Pat|!) But how can anyone reference an American ?bible? when the Yanks cannot spell? (sorry Alec) Well, it's like this....we were selling product worldwide, and whilst the English (et al) accept American usage, the Yanks don't understand British English usage.? My colleagues Stateside said that the manuals had to be read and understood by someone in the mid-West.? Luckily in the technical manuals there were not too many problems - never had to use "in back" instead of "out the back" for example! But what about the English "ill-gotten gains" ? -- ?Best Regards ?Alec ?Alec Bray ?alec.bray.2 at gmail.commob:??? 07789 561 346home:?? 0118 981 7502 ? | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alawrance1 at me.com Fri Jun 21 15:00:26 2019 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 21:00:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <5d0b9bc8.1c69fb81.209af.a494@mx.google.com> <997BD5F0-C342-44C3-A3CD-24B70194F1B1@me.com> <5d0d0503.1c69fb81.a06a3.6ba3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: ?I?m mad about my flat?. Two entirely different meanings. Alasdair Lawrance Sent from my iPad Pro. > On 21 Jun 2019, at 20:00, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 wrote: > > The other Americanism I like is ?hood? - car bonnet or gangster! > Geoff F > >> On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 19:58, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: >> I?m sure you love to have fun with fanny, Pat, but that must surely be one of the best known of all Americanisms. >> I?m afraid I can?t answer your last question because my invitation to the top table at the State Banquet seems to have got lost in the post. >> >> Nick. >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On 21 Jun 2019, at 17:26, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: >> >>> I accept ?gotten? as I mentioned in an earlier posting, as it comes from the Mayflower immigrants from the West Country who used that form. >>> >>> However, having worked with US production crews, find it quicker to use their nomenclature (words), than ours. Pity, they?ve won! >>> >>> Example: I bought a bag of sweets ? handed it around: ?Have a sweet?? Blank faces from the Yanks. ?Oh! Have a candy? Realisation dawned. >>> >>> The other word I love to have fun with: The Americans would say: >>> >>> ?She fell on her fanny? meaning backside. >>> >>> I took great pleasure in informing them that in the UK, ?fanny? meant the ?front side? Usually horror struck reaction! >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone know if Trump moved his fork from the left hand to the right to eat at the state banquet? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Alec Bray via Tech1 >>> Sent: 20 June 2019 17:47 >>> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help! >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi all (especially Pat|!) >>> >>> But how can anyone reference an American ?bible? when the Yanks cannot spell? (sorry Alec) >>> >>> Well, it's like this....we were selling product worldwide, and whilst the English (et al) accept American usage, the Yanks don't understand British English usage. My colleagues Stateside said that the manuals had to be read and understood by someone in the mid-West. >>> >>> Luckily in the technical manuals there were not too many problems - never had to use "in back" instead of "out the back" for example! >>> >>> But what about the English "ill-gotten gains" ? >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Best Regards >>> >>> Alec >>> >>> Alec Bray >>> >>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com >>> mob: 07789 561 346 >>> home: 0118 981 7502 >>> >>> >>> >>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanaudio at me.com Fri Jun 21 15:04:21 2019 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 21:04:21 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: <2079980376.312734.1561146047208@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <5d0b9bc8.1c69fb81.209af.a494@mx.google.com> <997BD5F0-C342-44C3-A3CD-24B70194F1B1@me.com> <5d0d0503.1c69fb81.a06a3.6ba3@mx.google.com> <2079980376.312734.1561146047208@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The first time I had a holiday in America I ran into two linguistics problems in the first day. I managed to pack without including my underwear, so the first task upon settling into the hotel was to buy new knickers, but I didn't know what to ask for as I knew that pants were trousers. The second problem was that I hired a convertible car and there was a problem with the soft top not latching properly, but again I didn't know what it was called as I knew that the hood was that metal thing covering the engine. Some of you may know the drama director Nick Laughlin. He told me about one summer when he took a job as a leader in an American camp for kids. His colleagues thought he was rather effeminate because of the way he spoke ( reasonably posh English accent ) so he decided to make friends by offering round his English cigarettes. Unfortunately the phrase he used was "Anybody fancy an English fag?", which confirmed what they already suspected about him. Alan Taylor On 21 Jun 2019, at 21 Jun . 20:40, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > 'Tis the same in New Zealand - where Crisps are "Chips", Chips are "Hot Chips", Sweets are "Lollies", and Lollies are "Ice Blocks." > > Which brings back memories of running through the London rain with a female friend from NZ. We leapt onto a train and she exclaimed, slightly too loudly, "My pants are wet!" > I explained that, in this country it's best to say, "Trousers." In the UK, if you sit next to someone and say, "My pants are wet!" They tend to move away from you. > > luv, Rog. > > > On Friday, 21 June 2019, 17:26:32 BST, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: > > > I accept ?gotten? as I mentioned in an earlier posting, as it comes from the Mayflower immigrants from the West Country who used that form. > > However, having worked with US production crews, find it quicker to use their nomenclature (words), than ours. Pity, they?ve won! > > Example: I bought a bag of sweets ? handed it around: ?Have a sweet?? Blank faces from the Yanks. ?Oh! Have a candy? Realisation dawned. > > The other word I love to have fun with: The Americans would say: > > ?She fell on her fanny? meaning backside. > > I took great pleasure in informing them that in the UK, ?fanny? meant the ?front side? Usually horror struck reaction! > > > Anyone know if Trump moved his fork from the left hand to the right to eat at the state banquet? > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > From: Alec Bray via Tech1 > Sent: 20 June 2019 17:47 > To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] Help! > > > Hi all (especially Pat|!) > > But how can anyone reference an American ?bible? when the Yanks cannot spell? (sorry Alec) > > Well, it's like this....we were selling product worldwide, and whilst the English (et al) accept American usage, the Yanks don't understand British English usage. My colleagues Stateside said that the manuals had to be read and understood by someone in the mid-West. > > Luckily in the technical manuals there were not too many problems - never had to use "in back" instead of "out the back" for example! > > But what about the English "ill-gotten gains" ? > > -- > > Best Regards > > Alec > > Alec Bray > > alec.bray.2 at gmail.com > mob: 07789 561 346 > home: 0118 981 7502 > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Fri Jun 21 15:09:00 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 21:09:00 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Verboten subject In-Reply-To: <82ce0080-d4e7-deb9-c915-dc95f957a2ca@ntlworld.com> References: <3e6cc51a-cff1-bcf0-f768-f2ef1a6e4e7c@btinternet.com> <82ce0080-d4e7-deb9-c915-dc95f957a2ca@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <03fe0e3e-c09b-a78a-6814-df92971ba2ab@btinternet.com> Sorry, Bernie, I thought it was more comical then political. Cheers, Dave From mail at terrymeadowcroft.co.uk Fri Jun 21 16:23:57 2019 From: mail at terrymeadowcroft.co.uk (terrymeadowcroft) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:23:57 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Apostrophi References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com><5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012><18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk><093b9579-c250-d873-eb53-d6ee4fd92576@btinternet.com>, Message-ID: <0D10AE61BB4A4711A6B48DC085645383@MEDDIES2012> Hee-hee ;-) Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Ware via Tech1 To: Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [Tech1] Apostrophi As I said, life?s full of exceptions ;) Nick. Sent from my iPad On 20 Jun 2019, at 21:48, Alasdair Lawrance wrote: You?re right Dave, but it?s also an abbreviation of ?it is?, as in ?D?you think it?s cold out?? Alasdair Lawrance Sent from my iPad Pro. On 20 Jun 2019, at 21:38, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: I always believed that the use of the ap.... denoted possession or ownership by the item to which the ap.... is attached. Plurals, just add the 's'. Simplez! Cheers, Dave. -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Fri Jun 21 17:14:15 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2019 23:14:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Help! In-Reply-To: References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <5d0b9bc8.1c69fb81.209af.a494@mx.google.com> <997BD5F0-C342-44C3-A3CD-24B70194F1B1@me.com> <5d0d0503.1c69fb81.a06a3.6ba3@mx.google.com> <2079980376.312734.1561146047208@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <245dd45d-00e3-1010-9be6-808d33501bec@gmail.com> On my first trip to the US I rented a car in Orlando and drove it to Titusville and the Apollo Motel. When I stopped I couldn't get the key out of the ignition and had to ask the man in reception. "Have you put the car in Park?"? . I'd never driven an automatic before. B Dodge Dart Swinger, and The Vehicle Assembly Building in the background. On 21/06/2019 21:04, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > The first time I had a holiday in America I ran into two linguistics > problems in the first day. > > I managed to pack without including my underwear, so the first task > upon settling into the hotel was to buy new knickers, but I didn't > know what to ask for as I knew that pants were trousers. > > The second problem was that I hired a convertible car and there was a > problem with the soft top not latching properly, but again I didn't > know what it was called as I knew that the hood was that metal thing > covering the engine. > > Some of you may know the drama director Nick Laughlin. ?He told me > about one summer when he took a job as a leader in an American camp > for kids. ?His colleagues thought he was rather effeminate because of > the way he spoke ( reasonably posh English accent ) so he decided to > make friends by offering round his English cigarettes. ?Unfortunately > the phrase he used was "Anybody fancy an English fag?", which > confirmed what they already suspected about him. > > Alan Taylor > > > On 21 Jun 2019, at 21 Jun . 20:40, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 > > wrote: > >> 'Tis the same in New Zealand - where Crisps are "Chips", Chips are >> "Hot Chips", Sweets are "Lollies", and Lollies are "Ice Blocks." >> >> ????Which brings back memories of running through the London rain >> with a female friend from NZ. We leapt onto a train and she >> exclaimed, slightly too loudly, "My pants are wet!" >> ????I explained that, in this country it's best to say, "Trousers." >> In the UK, if you sit next to someone and say, "My pants are wet!" >> They tend to move away from you. >> >> luv, Rog. >> >> On Friday, 21 June 2019, 17:26:32 BST, patheigham via Tech1 >> > wrote: >> >> >> I accept ?gotten? as I mentioned in an earlier posting, as it comes >> from the Mayflower immigrants from the West Country who used that form. >> >> However, having worked with US production crews, find it quicker to >> use their nomenclature (words), than ours. Pity, they?ve won! >> >> Example: I bought a bag of sweets ? handed it around: ?Have a sweet?? >> Blank faces from the Yanks. ?Oh! Have a _candy_? Realisation dawned. >> >> The other word I love to have fun with: The Americans would say: >> >> ?She fell on her fanny? meaning backside. >> >> I took great pleasure in informing them that in the UK, ?fanny? meant >> the ?front side? Usually horror struck reaction! >> >> >> Anyone know if Trump moved his fork from the left hand to the right >> to eat at the state banquet? >> >> >> >> Sent from Mail for >> Windows 10 >> >> >> *From: *Alec Bray via Tech1 >> *Sent: *20 June 2019 17:47 >> *To: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Help! >> >> >> Hi all (especially Pat|!) >> >> But how can anyone reference an American ?bible? when the Yanks >> cannot spell? (sorry Alec) >> >> Well, it's like this....we were selling product worldwide, and whilst >> the English (et al) accept American usage, the Yanks don't understand >> *British English *usage. My colleagues Stateside said that the >> manuals had to be read and understood by someone in the mid-West. >> >> Luckily in the technical manuals there were not too many problems - >> never had to use "in back" instead of "out the back" for example! >> >> But what about the English "ill-gotten gains" ? >> >> -- >> >> Best Regards >> >> Alec >> >> Alec Bray >> >> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com >> mob:??? 07789 561 346 >> home:?? 0118 981 7502 >> >> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: kleblppccpliiopg.png Type: image/png Size: 167488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 03:33:10 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2019 09:33:10 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Fwd: James Burke recounts his memories of the Apollo 11 moon landing for BBC Radio 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04de0af1-6251-accc-105a-619aed2eab1a@gmail.com> A friend sent me this, and I'm passing it on.... The voice of science on the BBC recounts his memories of the day human beings walked on the moon View in browser To ensure you don't miss future updates, please add the BBC Audience address to your contacts or safe list BBC Shows Header *J **ames Burke: **?Our Man on the Moon* James Burke 50 years ago, when the Apollo 11 mission landed the first human beings on the moon, *James Burke* was the voice of science for the BBC. Join him to relive the dramatic days in the studio, sharing the moment-by-moment drama to a live audience. You'll remember his excited voice counting down the seconds and desperately trying to avoid talking over any communication with the astronauts. Here is your chance to find out what went on behind the scenes as James revisits the final moments of the Apollo mission. He'll recreate the drama, struggling to make sense of flickering images from NASA and working with the limitations of 1960s technology. We'll hear what went wrong as well as what went right on the night! Illustrated with amazing archive material from both the BBC and NASA, this will be the story of the moon landings brought to you by the man who became a broadcasting legend. A night neither he nor we will never forget. *Dates: *Tuesday 9 July *Venue:* BBC Radio Theatre *Doors open:* 7.15pm *Recordings start:*?7.30pm To apply for tickets visit *bbc.co.uk/showsandtours* Please remember that*all ticket holders and their guests *must bring *valid photo ID. *Copies of photo ID or ID that has expired are not acceptable. Please take a look at our *FAQ *to see what type of photo ID is acceptable. We'd love to see you! *BBC Shows and Tours* *Apply Now* Please do not respond to this email as the address is not monitored. Shows ? | Tours ? | Take Part ? | Follow us on Twitter ? | Follow us on Instagram BBC Terms of use Privacy & Cookies Update your preferences Unsubscribe here -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Sat Jun 22 11:42:36 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2019 17:42:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Job ads Message-ID: Some members of this list need not apply for the second one, and the successful candidate for the first one is about to have their job description changed radically. Found in a junk shop - The Listener March 1939 B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: adverts.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 168259 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Sat Jun 22 18:50:59 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 00:50:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] language In-Reply-To: References: <2fcf92c4-2bc3-83e1-2343-75265ee90c93@btinternet.com> <5690974CE90C4AA7A8D72660169B04C4@MEDDIES2012> <18b01658-ccba-bf3d-fb29-c39d1640240b@chriswoolf.co.uk> <5d0b9bc8.1c69fb81.209af.a494@mx.google.com> <997BD5F0-C342-44C3-A3CD-24B70194F1B1@me.com> <5d0d0503.1c69fb81.a06a3.6ba3@mx.google.com> <2079980376.312734.1561146047208@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <76c9af59-0563-0941-6c99-0e84d084069d@btinternet.com> Spotted today on a holiday web-site was a caption for a beach visit by a family 'CARRYING INFALLIBLES'! I hope they didn't sink. Cheers, Dave From bernie833 at gmail.com Sun Jun 23 15:00:55 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 21:00:55 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 In-Reply-To: <93451854-438F-4FA9-B2D4-5467B50DBD22@mac.com> References: <93451854-438F-4FA9-B2D4-5467B50DBD22@mac.com> Message-ID: Sam Neeter's son Mark sent this picture. Do we know any more? B -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Early days at tc3 Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:29:13 +0100 From: Mark Neeter To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com My Dad, Sam Neeter, is second from left. Somewhere I have a picture of cast and crew of Z Cars and his Z Cars tie and a script for a Dr Who Ice warriors episode that he lit and I attended . Best Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_8367.PNG Type: image/png Size: 428433 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Sent from my iPhone From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Sun Jun 23 16:17:22 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 22:17:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 In-Reply-To: References: <93451854-438F-4FA9-B2D4-5467B50DBD22@mac.com> Message-ID: <2CF2C56F0AE34D54B50371CFB011F6E0@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Possibly Malcolm Martin foreground this side of Sam Neeter? Dave Newbitt. From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2019 9:00 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 Sam Neeter's son Mark sent this picture. Do we know any more? B -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Early days at tc3 Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:29:13 +0100 From: Mark Neeter mailto:mneeter at mac.com To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com My Dad, Sam Neeter, is second from left. Somewhere I have a picture of cast and crew of Z Cars and his Z Cars tie and a script for a Dr Who Ice warriors episode that he lit and I attended . Best Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Sun Jun 23 16:33:39 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 22:33:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Sam Neeter Message-ID: When I joined the Beeb in Dec.1961 I was billeted, by BBC Birmingham, at Mrs. Sweatman's, 23, Augustus Road, Edgbaston, as were almost all BBC staff visiting the region. Also in this guest house were Sam Neeter, Norman Painting (Phil Archer), and Alastair Askham (BBC Radio SM). Breakfast was rather surreal, since my parents always listened to 'The Archers' and here I was having breakfast with one of the main characters! I think Sam was on an attachment to Midland Region at the time. We met up later at TVC when I worked on 'Z Cars'. Cheers, Dave From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Sun Jun 23 17:11:48 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 23:11:48 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Jokes Message-ID: <1345d796-ca9f-5ce8-f584-1835acc31b0b@btinternet.com> Just to lighten the mood, some laughs for you! Cheers, Dave -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 115522 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 104978 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: IMG_0892.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 51622 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0894.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 63848 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mibridge at mac.com Sun Jun 23 17:19:22 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 23:19:22 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Jokes In-Reply-To: <1345d796-ca9f-5ce8-f584-1835acc31b0b@btinternet.com> References: <1345d796-ca9f-5ce8-f584-1835acc31b0b@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <3DD9B60B-5D46-40F9-96B2-5DC6F8F365A3@mac.com> What you might call jester minute! Mike G > On 23 Jun 2019, at 23:11, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > > Just to lighten the mood, some laughs for you! Cheers, Dave > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From phider at gmx.com Sun Jun 23 23:43:34 2019 From: phider at gmx.com (phider) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 05:43:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0MY75A-1i1DVx1E9I-00UvMK@mail.gmx.com> Hi BernieI think it is either Dave or Geoff Summers in the TOM's chair, Gwyllm Dann at the far end by the window. I don't know the guy in black next to Gwyllm but next to him is John Davis, Vision Control (not sure of spelling) and in the V/M's seat is someone from cameras. My guess is Terry .....?If anyone finds my memory could they please return it Peter Hider c/o Crew 5, 2, 7, or 9.Best wishesPSent from Samsung Mobile on O2 -------- Original message --------From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Date: 23/06/2019 21:00 (GMT+00:00) To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 Sam Neeter's son Mark sent this picture. Do we know any more? B -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Early days at tc3 Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:29:13 +0100 From: Mark Neeter To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com My Dad, Sam Neeter, is second from left. Somewhere I have a picture of cast and crew of Z Cars and his Z Cars tie and a script for a Dr Who Ice warriors episode that he lit and I attended . Best Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hughsheppard at btinternet.com Mon Jun 24 03:19:27 2019 From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:19:27 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 In-Reply-To: References: <93451854-438F-4FA9-B2D4-5467B50DBD22@mac.com> Message-ID: <9eb2a76d-41c2-9915-66cd-0aba6d8c2ed0@btinternet.com> It's a picture I recall of Crew 6 days, but not readily of Malcolm Martin who always looked a tad tidier.? The Director was George Spenton Foster and at the far end Gwilym Dann, In trawling Google I found: https://www.bbceng.info/Engineering/BBC%20Engineering%20Division%201938b.pdf But in the absence of a date, is it feasible the '1938' in the url offers a clue?? Lo!? There is 'S. Neeter', listed as a 'Junior Maintenance Engineer' perhaps prior to call-up, along with 'R.F.A. Pottinger' - who was on my entry board, 'H.E. Rigg'- surely the infamous Paddy Rigg of AP days some 20 years later - and Ken Twitchen.? There's an 'E G. Dann' there too, listed as? a Maintenance Engineer.? Would that be Gwilym? And now I see that Albert Barber and others contributed on this years ago on Bernie's site: http://tech-ops.co.uk/next/early-days-in-tc3/ But that Eng, Inf. copy warrants an in depth trawl... Hugh On 23-Jun-19 9:00 PM, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > Sam Neeter's son Mark sent this picture. Do we know any more? > > B > > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: Early days at tc3 > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:29:13 +0100 > From: Mark Neeter > To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com > > > > My Dad, Sam Neeter, is second from left. Somewhere I have a picture of > cast and crew of Z Cars and his Z Cars tie and a script for a Dr Who > Ice warriors episode that he lit and I attended . > > Best > > Mark > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Mon Jun 24 03:33:16 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:33:16 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 In-Reply-To: <9eb2a76d-41c2-9915-66cd-0aba6d8c2ed0@btinternet.com> References: <93451854-438F-4FA9-B2D4-5467B50DBD22@mac.com> <9eb2a76d-41c2-9915-66cd-0aba6d8c2ed0@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <5A2D0530208D469B97075F11C6A54D73@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Point taken re Malcolm Martin ? I?m getting near the top of the list for faulty memory! Now Ken Twitchen, there?s a character to recall! Remember the pink Cresta (never mind the colour - look at the price), the ?neither a lender nor a borrower be? (if you found yourself tuppence short in the crush bar) and the cheap early morning workman?s transport in from furthest Essex? Yet another ?one off? amongst many. Dave Newbitt. From: Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 9:19 AM To: Bernard Newnham ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 It's a picture I recall of Crew 6 days, but not readily of Malcolm Martin who always looked a tad tidier. The Director was George Spenton Foster and at the far end Gwilym Dann, In trawling Google I found: https://www.bbceng.info/Engineering/BBC%20Engineering%20Division%201938b.pdfBut in the absence of a date, is it feasible the '1938' in the url offers a clue? Lo! There is 'S. Neeter', listed as a 'Junior Maintenance Engineer' perhaps prior to call-up, along with 'R.F.A. Pottinger' - who was on my entry board, 'H.E. Rigg'- surely the infamous Paddy Rigg of AP days some 20 years later - and Ken Twitchen. There's an 'E G. Dann' there too, listed as a Maintenance Engineer. Would that be Gwilym? And now I see that Albert Barber and others contributed on this years ago on Bernie's site: http://tech-ops.co.uk/next/early-days-in-tc3/ But that Eng, Inf. copy warrants an in depth trawl... Hugh On 23-Jun-19 9:00 PM, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: Sam Neeter's son Mark sent this picture. Do we know any more? B -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Early days at tc3 Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:29:13 +0100 From: Mark Neeter mailto:mneeter at mac.com To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com My Dad, Sam Neeter, is second from left. Somewhere I have a picture of cast and crew of Z Cars and his Z Cars tie and a script for a Dr Who Ice warriors episode that he lit and I attended . Best Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Mon Jun 24 03:59:07 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:59:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Barbara pic Message-ID: I just found this on a BBC history page. I was actually looking for that one of Mike du Boulay on JBJ, but it seems to have gone missing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gpaijjbcolnpcdcm.png Type: image/png Size: 676529 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Mon Jun 24 09:57:45 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 15:57:45 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: RE: BBC Radio Enquiry In-Reply-To: <183A124F9DC9004CBB868202D3300453D66EDB@bgb01xud1004> References: <183A124F9DC9004CBB868202D3300453D66EDB@bgb01xud1004> Message-ID: If you were there on Our World, this man would like to talk to you B -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: RE: BBC Radio Enquiry Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:59:35 +0000 From: Alex Fyans To: 'bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com' It also seems that Roy Garner and Mike Jordan worked on the show if you have any means of contacting them. Would be great to hear from as many people with experience from that day as possible! *Alex Fyans *I Broadcast Journalist** BBC Berkshire I?Tel 0118 946 4200 104.1 & 95.4 FM I DAB I bbc.co.uk/berkshire Description: Description: bbc_logo_small *From:*Alex Fyans *Sent:* 24 June 2019 14:43 *To:* 'bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com' *Subject:* RE: BBC Radio Enquiry Hi Bernard, That?s great, thanks so much. As you were also there, would you be interested in speaking to the show tomorrow? Many thanks, Alex *Alex Fyans *I Broadcast Journalist** BBC Berkshire I?Tel 0118 946 4200 104.1 & 95.4 FM I DAB I bbc.co.uk/berkshire Description: Description: bbc_logo_small *From:*Bernard Newnham [mailto:bernie833 at gmail.com] *Sent:* 24 June 2019 14:16 *To:* Alex Fyans *Subject:* Re: BBC Radio Enquiry Hi Alex Bill certainly did, as I visited him in TC1 on the day. I'll forward your email to them regards B On 24/06/2019 14:11, Alex Fyans wrote: Hi Bernard, I hope you don?t mind me emailing ? I found your address on the Tech-Ops History website. I am a producer at BBC Radio Berkshire and am planning a feature about the 1967 global satellite television programme "Our World" to go out on our mid-morning show tomorrow. Are you able to put me in contact with anyone who worked for the BBC at this time? In particular I believe that two contributors to the site, Bill Jenkin and David Denness, worked on this broadcast and so it would be great to be put in touch with them if at all possible. Many thanks, Alex *Alex Fyans *I Broadcast Journalist BBC Berkshire I?Tel 0118 946 4200 104.1 & 95.4 FM I DAB I bbc.co.uk/berkshire Description: Description: bbc_logo_small -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1251 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1251 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gary_critcher at yahoo.com Mon Jun 24 12:03:25 2019 From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:03:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] DAT tapes anyone? References: <1071663590.1893188.1561395805907.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1071663590.1893188.1561395805907@mail.yahoo.com> ?Lads, I have a quantity of used (only once) DAT tapes that I no longer need.?They are all 90s and 120s with I think just one 60 in there. Would anyone like them?? If anyone is interested,? let me have your address & I'll get them in the post.all the best, ??? Gary C -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Mon Jun 24 12:44:31 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:44:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: RE: BBC Radio Enquiry In-Reply-To: References: <183A124F9DC9004CBB868202D3300453D66EDB@bgb01xud1004> Message-ID: <45832C1951E54FBDA9260CB401E4B5CB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> I wasn?t involved in the TC1 input but was on Pres A sound duty on the night in question. I don?t remember quite what part we played there but I finished up with a 1/4? of the theme music. I played it back two years ago when it seemed ok but my Revox still lies waiting to be hooked up as it has done ever since we moved house 18 months ago so I can?t check it at this moment. I mentioned it in my post of June 11th when a few of us were recalling our time in the Presentation Suite but obviously had no idea then that a feature was being planned. I do hope the music is already available at Radio Berkshire as it is too late to make my copy available. Dave Newbitt. From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 3:57 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Cc: Bernard Newnham Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: RE: BBC Radio Enquiry If you were there on Our World, this man would like to talk to you B -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: RE: BBC Radio Enquiry Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 13:59:35 +0000 From: Alex Fyans mailto:alex.fyans at bbc.co.uk To: 'bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com' mailto:bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com It also seems that Roy Garner and Mike Jordan worked on the show if you have any means of contacting them. Would be great to hear from as many people with experience from that day as possible! Alex Fyans I Broadcast Journalist BBC Berkshire I Tel 0118 946 4200 104.1 & 95.4 FM I DAB I bbc.co.uk/berkshire From: Alex Fyans Sent: 24 June 2019 14:43 To: 'bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com' Subject: RE: BBC Radio Enquiry Hi Bernard, That?s great, thanks so much. As you were also there, would you be interested in speaking to the show tomorrow? Many thanks, Alex Alex Fyans I Broadcast Journalist BBC Berkshire I Tel 0118 946 4200 104.1 & 95.4 FM I DAB I bbc.co.uk/berkshire From: Bernard Newnham [mailto:bernie833 at gmail.com] Sent: 24 June 2019 14:16 To: Alex Fyans Subject: Re: BBC Radio Enquiry Hi Alex Bill certainly did, as I visited him in TC1 on the day. I'll forward your email to them regards B On 24/06/2019 14:11, Alex Fyans wrote: Hi Bernard, I hope you don?t mind me emailing ? I found your address on the Tech-Ops History website. I am a producer at BBC Radio Berkshire and am planning a feature about the 1967 global satellite television programme "Our World" to go out on our mid-morning show tomorrow. Are you able to put me in contact with anyone who worked for the BBC at this time? In particular I believe that two contributors to the site, Bill Jenkin and David Denness, worked on this broadcast and so it would be great to be put in touch with them if at all possible. Many thanks, Alex Alex Fyans I Broadcast Journalist BBC Berkshire I Tel 0118 946 4200 104.1 & 95.4 FM I DAB I bbc.co.uk/berkshire -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1251 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1251 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Mon Jun 24 13:53:52 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:53:52 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: RE: BBC Radio Enquiry In-Reply-To: <45832C1951E54FBDA9260CB401E4B5CB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <183A124F9DC9004CBB868202D3300453D66EDB@bgb01xud1004> <45832C1951E54FBDA9260CB401E4B5CB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: I was on duty as gram. op. in TC1 for the show. The opening sig. tune had been recorded by the Vienna Phil. and was given to me on a single-sided 10? reel. Unfortunately, the USSR had decided, at the last minute, not to take part so I was asked to shorten the music - with a razor blade, as was the norm. in those days! Naturally, one copies the master tape before the razor blade is unsheathed! Luckily, it all went well, but it was probably the most expensive edit I have ever made! Cheers, Dave. From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Mon Jun 24 15:57:44 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 21:57:44 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Worrying news! Message-ID: <76b5f1ae-009a-c1dc-0fab-570773bfe4d4@btinternet.com> I have just been forced to visit my friendly off-licence as I had a severe thirst. He normally has at least four different Polish beers in stock, but not today! He told me that the wholesalers aren't stocking it because so many Polish workmen are leaving the country! Another thing he told me is that the brewers are phasing out the 500ml. cans and moving to 440ml. ones! The nanny state strikes again! Not-cheers, Dave From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Mon Jun 24 17:51:34 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 23:51:34 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 In-Reply-To: References: <93451854-438F-4FA9-B2D4-5467B50DBD22@mac.com> <9eb2a76d-41c2-9915-66cd-0aba6d8c2ed0@btinternet.com> <5A2D0530208D469B97075F11C6A54D73@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <5F14513C426E45A5952BDD1FA0E96D9D@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Glancing through the engineering personnel in this remarkable record from long before my time I nevertheless see amongst the AP Maintenance Engineers the names of some I remember from later years ? Otis Eddy; Tommy Holmes; Eric Wallis; Frank Clarkson and Cyril Wilkins. As well as the Junior Engineers you list, Hugh, I see Frank Cresswell and George Summers. Dave Newbitt. From: Hugh Sheppard Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 9:27 PM To: David Newbitt Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 Why's the Cresta got 4 headlamps Ken? I asked him. 'Well, I don't really want them' said Ken, 'but whoever buys it from me in a few years time almost certainly will'! Hugh On 24-Jun-19 9:33 AM, David Newbitt wrote: Point taken re Malcolm Martin ? I?m getting near the top of the list for faulty memory! Now Ken Twitchen, there?s a character to recall! Remember the pink Cresta (never mind the colour - look at the price), the ?neither a lender nor a borrower be? (if you found yourself tuppence short in the crush bar) and the cheap early morning workman?s transport in from furthest Essex? Yet another ?one off? amongst many. Dave Newbitt. From: Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 9:19 AM To: Bernard Newnham ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 It's a picture I recall of Crew 6 days, but not readily of Malcolm Martin who always looked a tad tidier. The Director was George Spenton Foster and at the far end Gwilym Dann, In trawling Google I found: https://www.bbceng.info/Engineering/BBC%20Engineering%20Division%201938b.pdfBut in the absence of a date, is it feasible the '1938' in the url offers a clue? Lo! There is 'S. Neeter', listed as a 'Junior Maintenance Engineer' perhaps prior to call-up, along with 'R.F.A. Pottinger' - who was on my entry board, 'H.E. Rigg'- surely the infamous Paddy Rigg of AP days some 20 years later - and Ken Twitchen. There's an 'E G. Dann' there too, listed as a Maintenance Engineer. Would that be Gwilym? And now I see that Albert Barber and others contributed on this years ago on Bernie's site: http://tech-ops.co.uk/next/early-days-in-tc3/ But that Eng, Inf. copy warrants an in depth trawl... Hugh On 23-Jun-19 9:00 PM, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: Sam Neeter's son Mark sent this picture. Do we know any more? B -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Early days at tc3 Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:29:13 +0100 From: Mark Neeter mailto:mneeter at mac.com To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com My Dad, Sam Neeter, is second from left. Somewhere I have a picture of cast and crew of Z Cars and his Z Cars tie and a script for a Dr Who Ice warriors episode that he lit and I attended . Best Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Mon Jun 24 18:31:33 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:31:33 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 In-Reply-To: <5F14513C426E45A5952BDD1FA0E96D9D@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <93451854-438F-4FA9-B2D4-5467B50DBD22@mac.com> <9eb2a76d-41c2-9915-66cd-0aba6d8c2ed0@btinternet.com> <5A2D0530208D469B97075F11C6A54D73@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <5F14513C426E45A5952BDD1FA0E96D9D@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <6da30579-1b47-3f30-5dc1-7a19fcd7deb4@btinternet.com> Ken Twitchen, known as the Mayor of Southend, I believe! A bit like Ron Cartwright, the Mayor of Evesham, in Birmingham control room! Ron had lots of racing tips from local horsey people but having got me into the postal betting scene ( Shermans) after nine months of buying 'Sporting Life' every day, I came out even! At least it wasn't a loss. Working at Ascot on 'windy corner' with Julian Wilson, one of the staff there knew lots of tips from the 'owners and trainers bar' nearby. Many times I have rushed to the betting office to put a fiver on a hot tip but never won anything. One day, Julian was in a bad mood and I asked him if he had lost a bet. He said -'I never lose!' - but he never told any of the poor people working for him what was going to win! Cheers, Dave From hughsheppard at btinternet.com Tue Jun 25 01:56:25 2019 From: hughsheppard at btinternet.com (Hugh Sheppard) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:56:25 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 In-Reply-To: <5F14513C426E45A5952BDD1FA0E96D9D@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <93451854-438F-4FA9-B2D4-5467B50DBD22@mac.com> <9eb2a76d-41c2-9915-66cd-0aba6d8c2ed0@btinternet.com> <5A2D0530208D469B97075F11C6A54D73@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <5F14513C426E45A5952BDD1FA0E96D9D@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: What a treasure trove that Eng. Inf. list represents!? A further trawl offers Reg Callaghan, H.E Gooding (the name I recall but??), Tommy Bridgewater, Jock Strathairn, O.R. Jephcott (surely not Roger?) and J. (Jimmy) Redmond.? Also, in the technical recording section, a P. T. Palmer - just possibly Ben? + other doubtfuls. If you were around in the '50s and '60s take a look at: https://www.bbceng.info/Engineering/BBC%20Engineering%20Division%201938b.pdf Hugh On 24-Jun-19 11:51 PM, David Newbitt wrote: > Glancing through the engineering personnel in this remarkable record > from long before my time I nevertheless see amongst the AP Maintenance > Engineers the names of some I remember from later years ? Otis Eddy; > Tommy Holmes; Eric Wallis; Frank Clarkson and Cyril Wilkins. As well > as the Junior Engineers you list, Hugh, I see Frank Cresswell and > George Summers. > Dave Newbitt. > *From:* Hugh Sheppard > *Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2019 9:27 PM > *To:* David Newbitt > *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 > > Why's the Cresta got 4 headlamps Ken? I asked him. 'Well, I don't > really want them' said Ken, 'but whoever buys it from me in a few > years time almost certainly will'! > > Hugh > > On 24-Jun-19 9:33 AM, David Newbitt wrote: >> Point taken re Malcolm Martin ? I?m getting near the top of the list >> for faulty memory! >> Now Ken Twitchen, there?s a character to recall! Remember the pink >> Cresta (never mind the colour - look at the price), the ?neither a >> lender nor a borrower be? (if you found yourself tuppence short in >> the crush bar) and the cheap early morning workman?s transport in >> from furthest Essex? >> Yet another ?one off? amongst many. >> Dave Newbitt. >> *From:* Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 >> *Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2019 9:19 AM >> *To:* Bernard Newnham ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> *Subject:* Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 >> >> It's a picture I recall of Crew 6 days, but not readily of Malcolm >> Martin who always looked a tad tidier.? The Director was George >> Spenton Foster and at the far end Gwilym Dann, >> >> In trawling Google I found: >> >> https://www.bbceng.info/Engineering/BBC%20Engineering%20Division%201938b.pdf >> But in the absence of a date, is it feasible the '1938' in the url >> offers a clue?? Lo!? There is 'S. Neeter', listed as a 'Junior >> Maintenance Engineer' perhaps prior to call-up, along with 'R.F.A. >> Pottinger' - who was on my entry board, 'H.E. Rigg'- surely the >> infamous Paddy Rigg of AP days some 20 years later - and Ken >> Twitchen.? There's an 'E G. Dann' there too, listed as? a Maintenance >> Engineer.? Would that be Gwilym? >> And now I see that Albert Barber and others contributed on this years >> ago on Bernie's site: http://tech-ops.co.uk/next/early-days-in-tc3/ >> But that Eng, Inf. copy warrants an in depth trawl... >> Hugh >> On 23-Jun-19 9:00 PM, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >>> Sam Neeter's son Mark sent this picture. Do we know any more? >>> >>> B >>> >>> >>> >>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>> Subject: Early days at tc3 >>> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:29:13 +0100 >>> From: Mark Neeter mailto:mneeter at mac.com >>> To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com >>> >>> >>> >>> My Dad, Sam Neeter, is second from left. Somewhere I have a picture >>> of cast and crew of Z Cars and his Z Cars tie and a script for a Dr >>> Who Ice warriors episode that he lit and I attended . >>> >>> Best >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Tue Jun 25 02:15:01 2019 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:15:01 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Worrying news! In-Reply-To: <76b5f1ae-009a-c1dc-0fab-570773bfe4d4@btinternet.com> References: <76b5f1ae-009a-c1dc-0fab-570773bfe4d4@btinternet.com> Message-ID: Not so much the nanny state as a hidden price rise! ? Graeme Wall > On 24 Jun 2019, at 21:57, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > > I have just been forced to visit my friendly off-licence as I had a severe thirst. He normally has at least four different Polish beers in stock, but not today! He told me that the wholesalers aren't stocking it because so many Polish workmen are leaving the country! Another thing he told me is that the brewers are phasing out the 500ml. cans and moving to 440ml. ones! The nanny state strikes again! Not-cheers, Dave > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From mibridge at mac.com Tue Jun 25 02:21:59 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:21:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 In-Reply-To: References: <93451854-438F-4FA9-B2D4-5467B50DBD22@mac.com> <9eb2a76d-41c2-9915-66cd-0aba6d8c2ed0@btinternet.com> <5A2D0530208D469B97075F11C6A54D73@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> <5F14513C426E45A5952BDD1FA0E96D9D@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <4F8807A8-D031-40B8-8F5E-D39E854D6FC3@mac.com> I recall Harry Gooding as being a much ?revered? figure at Kendal Avenue - am I right? I fancy he was around when the Bristol OB Crew spent a month going over CMCR3(?) with a fine tooth comb before we took it over in place of our much loved MCR28. We were delighted to have found and fixed several problems in both sound and vision that had existed since the scanner was new. But one of the faults was obviously down to Aunty rather than the manufacturer - two faders in the sound desk regularly caused problems, despite cleaning and reseating each time they splatted. Having taken all the adjacent faders out, close inspection with a torch at an angle revealed two packs of sugar lumps, in the old green BBC wrapping, which really couldn?t be seen when only the two rogue channels were taken out. The sugar lumps were preventing the two troublesome faders from seating properly, despite all the brute force which had been applied! The sugar lumps were only slightly deformed, so I can reassure readers that they didn?t go to waste. (And please note that despite my personal feelings on the matter, I have succumbed to the views of the wise ones, by not using an apostrophe in the abbreviation for Outside Broadcasts by the devious means of referring only to KA.) Mike G > On 25 Jun 2019, at 07:56, Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 wrote: > > What a treasure trove that Eng. Inf. list represents! A further trawl offers Reg Callaghan, H.E Gooding (the name I recall but??), Tommy Bridgewater, Jock Strathairn, O.R. Jephcott (surely not Roger?) and J. (Jimmy) Redmond. Also, in the technical recording section, a P. T. Palmer - just possibly Ben? + other doubtfuls. > > If you were around in the '50s and '60s take a look at: > > https://www.bbceng.info/Engineering/BBC%20Engineering%20Division%201938b.pdf > Hugh > >> On 24-Jun-19 11:51 PM, David Newbitt wrote: >> Glancing through the engineering personnel in this remarkable record from long before my time I nevertheless see amongst the AP Maintenance Engineers the names of some I remember from later years ? Otis Eddy; Tommy Holmes; Eric Wallis; Frank Clarkson and Cyril Wilkins. As well as the Junior Engineers you list, Hugh, I see Frank Cresswell and George Summers. >> >> Dave Newbitt. >> >> From: Hugh Sheppard >> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 9:27 PM >> To: David Newbitt >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 >> >> Why's the Cresta got 4 headlamps Ken? I asked him. 'Well, I don't really want them' said Ken, 'but whoever buys it from me in a few years time almost certainly will'! >> >> Hugh >> >>> On 24-Jun-19 9:33 AM, David Newbitt wrote: >>> Point taken re Malcolm Martin ? I?m getting near the top of the list for faulty memory! >>> >>> Now Ken Twitchen, there?s a character to recall! Remember the pink Cresta (never mind the colour - look at the price), the ?neither a lender nor a borrower be? (if you found yourself tuppence short in the crush bar) and the cheap early morning workman?s transport in from furthest Essex? >>> >>> Yet another ?one off? amongst many. >>> >>> Dave Newbitt. >>> >>> From: Hugh Sheppard via Tech1 >>> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 9:19 AM >>> To: Bernard Newnham ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 >>> >>> It's a picture I recall of Crew 6 days, but not readily of Malcolm Martin who always looked a tad tidier. The Director was George Spenton Foster and at the far end Gwilym Dann, >>> >>> In trawling Google I found: >>> >>> https://www.bbceng.info/Engineering/BBC%20Engineering%20Division%201938b.pdf >>> But in the absence of a date, is it feasible the '1938' in the url offers a clue? Lo! There is 'S. Neeter', listed as a 'Junior Maintenance Engineer' perhaps prior to call-up, along with 'R.F.A. Pottinger' - who was on my entry board, 'H.E. Rigg'- surely the infamous Paddy Rigg of AP days some 20 years later - and Ken Twitchen. There's an 'E G. Dann' there too, listed as a Maintenance Engineer. Would that be Gwilym? >>> >>> And now I see that Albert Barber and others contributed on this years ago on Bernie's site: http://tech-ops.co.uk/next/early-days-in-tc3/ >>> >>> But that Eng, Inf. copy warrants an in depth trawl... >>> >>> Hugh >>>> On 23-Jun-19 9:00 PM, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >>>> Sam Neeter's son Mark sent this picture. Do we know any more? >>>> >>>> B >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >>>> Subject: Early days at tc3 >>>> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:29:13 +0100 >>>> From: Mark Neeter mailto:mneeter at mac.com >>>> To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com >>>> >>>> >>>> My Dad, Sam Neeter, is second from left. Somewhere I have a picture of cast and crew of Z Cars and his Z Cars tie and a script for a Dr Who Ice warriors episode that he lit and I attended . >>>> >>>> Best >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Tue Jun 25 09:58:04 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:58:04 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 In-Reply-To: References: <93451854-438F-4FA9-B2D4-5467B50DBD22@mac.com> Message-ID: <5d12367d.1c69fb81.ee68c.b41b@mx.google.com> If it was from Dr.Who The Ice Warriors, I was Grams on some of the episodes. Attached is a crew list, painstakingly put together by David Brunt as the Dr.Who Production Guide. No listing for TM1 though. Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 23 June 2019 21:01 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Early days at tc3 Sam Neeter's son Mark sent this picture. Do we know any more? B -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Early days at tc3 Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 18:29:13 +0100 From: Mark Neeter To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com My Dad, Sam Neeter, is second from left. Somewhere I have a picture of cast and crew of Z Cars and his Z Cars tie and a script for a Dr Who Ice warriors episode that he lit and I attended . Best Mark --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: The Ice Warriors Crew list.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 12829 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rogerbunce at btinternet.com Wed Jun 26 16:19:36 2019 From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 21:19:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] The Planets References: <1353195936.833494.1561583976395.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1353195936.833494.1561583976395@mail.yahoo.com> ????Is it just me, or do others of a certain age sometimes look at the tele and think to themselves, "Come back Eric Ilet, all is forgiven!"?????I enjoyed 'The Planets', apart from the usual excessive music. All that CGI stuff was very spectacular - even if they used each shot ten times.????But occasionally, just occasionally, I thought, Can't we see a diagram? Just a nice simple line drawing, so we can see where these orbits cross one another and how these planets move. No need for slidey bits of cardboard or wobbly strap-easels, these days. You can now do the moving bits electrically, I'm told.????E.g. If you want to show the scale of the solar system, why not use a diagram, with everything in proportion? I could understand that. Why do we have to see Brian Cox walking, driving, sailing, across Reykjavik harbour? I've never been to Reykjavik. I've no idea how big it is! So, how's that going to help my sense of scale? And it was too dark to see the stones in his hand, which were meant to be the planets. It makes a change from sitting on a Tahitian beach, arranging rocks in the sand, I suppose. But I still think a diagram would be better (and much, much cheaper!)? ? Brian Cox seems a nice chap, but when he wants to show me a photo, why is he sitting, back-lit, in the middle of the Arizona desert, trying to show me something on his iPad/Tablet? (or whatever that thing is). Most of the time I can't see what's on the screen, because of the flare, or because his hand's in the way. Why don't we cut straight to a photo? Preferably with a diagram to show where it fits into the solar system. ? ? Bring back BBC Graphics! luv, Rog. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alawrance1 at me.com Wed Jun 26 16:35:43 2019 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 22:35:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <1353195936.833494.1561583976395@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1353195936.833494.1561583976395.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1353195936.833494.1561583976395@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DFEF05F-BCD3-40CF-9BFB-EF3F4C47BBED@me.com> Agree, Rog, Brian seems a nice enough guy, uses joined up sentences and makes sense. My complaint about the series as a whole, is not being able to differentiate between ?real? pictures from space, and CG. I used to have the same doubts about natural history/wildlife progs., when Oxford Scientific were used. It?s more important than ever in the era of ?fake news?. As an aside, how, exactly, do you wake a craft that?s gazillions of miles/kilometres away? How do you know you?re pointing the thing properly, cf. shining a torch at the moon? Alasdair Lawrance Sent from my iPad Pro. > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:19, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > > Is it just me, or do others of a certain age sometimes look at the tele and think to themselves, "Come back Eric Ilet, all is forgiven!" > I enjoyed 'The Planets', apart from the usual excessive music. All that CGI stuff was very spectacular - even if they used each shot ten times. > But occasionally, just occasionally, I thought, Can't we see a diagram? Just a nice simple line drawing, so we can see where these orbits cross one another and how these planets move. No need for slidey bits of cardboard or wobbly strap-easels, these days. You can now do the moving bits electrically, I'm told. > E.g. If you want to show the scale of the solar system, why not use a diagram, with everything in proportion? I could understand that. Why do we have to see Brian Cox walking, driving, sailing, across Reykjavik harbour? I've never been to Reykjavik. I've no idea how big it is! So, how's that going to help my sense of scale? And it was too dark to see the stones in his hand, which were meant to be the planets. It makes a change from sitting on a Tahitian beach, arranging rocks in the sand, I suppose. But I still think a diagram would be better (and much, much cheaper!) > Brian Cox seems a nice chap, but when he wants to show me a photo, why is he sitting, back-lit, in the middle of the Arizona desert, trying to show me something on his iPad/Tablet? (or whatever that thing is). Most of the time I can't see what's on the screen, because of the flare, or because his hand's in the way. Why don't we cut straight to a photo? Preferably with a diagram to show where it fits into the solar system. > Bring back BBC Graphics! > > luv, Rog. > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Wed Jun 26 16:50:25 2019 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 22:50:25 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <1353195936.833494.1561583976395@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1353195936.833494.1561583976395.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1353195936.833494.1561583976395@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3ba493b0-8b8d-f6ca-4fde-b4d26a36c6c3@howell61.f9.co.uk> I agree Roger, too much music but I have difficulty with the colossal explosions that are heard when objects collide. They would only be heard if you were in any surrounding atmosphere. Yeah, I know, artistic license, but they _could_ be more impressive if silent. John H. On 26/06/2019 22:19, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > ????Is it just me, or do others of a certain age sometimes look at the > tele and think to themselves, "Come back Eric Ilet, all is forgiven!" > ????I enjoyed 'The Planets', apart from the usual excessive music. All > that CGI stuff was very spectacular - even if they used each shot ten > times. > ????But occasionally, just occasionally, I thought, Can't we see a > diagram? Just a nice simple line drawing, so we can see where these > orbits cross one another and how these planets move. No need for > slidey bits of cardboard or wobbly strap-easels, these days. You can > now do the moving bits electrically, I'm told. > ????E.g. If you want to show the scale of the solar system, why not > use a diagram, with everything in proportion? I could understand that. > Why do we have to see Brian Cox walking, driving, sailing, across > Reykjavik harbour? I've never been to Reykjavik. I've no idea how big > it is! So, how's that going to help my sense of scale? And it was too > dark to see the stones in his hand, which were meant to be the > planets. It makes a change from sitting on a Tahitian beach, arranging > rocks in the sand, I suppose. But I still think a diagram would be > better (and much, much cheaper!) > ? ? Brian Cox seems a nice chap, but when he wants to show me a photo, > why is he sitting, back-lit, in the middle of the Arizona desert, > trying to show me something on his iPad/Tablet? (or whatever that > thing is). Most of the time I can't see what's on the screen, because > of the flare, or because his hand's in the way. Why don't we cut > straight to a photo? Preferably with a diagram to show where it fits > into the solar system. > ? ? Bring back BBC Graphics! > > luv, Rog. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From relong at btinternet.com Wed Jun 26 16:58:36 2019 From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 22:58:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <3DFEF05F-BCD3-40CF-9BFB-EF3F4C47BBED@me.com> References: <1353195936.833494.1561583976395.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1353195936.833494.1561583976395@mail.yahoo.com> <3DFEF05F-BCD3-40CF-9BFB-EF3F4C47BBED@me.com> Message-ID: <694A6BB6-22F3-4088-97AC-77FDEAA1021F@btinternet.com> The NHU has been cheating shots for years Behaviour is impossible to shoot some times So zoos, tanks, enclosures etc are used All macro /micro work is lab based, no CGI yet Story telling is the normal priority, scientific animal behaviour must take second place. Remember Arts graduates make most science programmes Not scientists. Roger > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:35, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: > > Agree, Rog, Brian seems a nice enough guy, uses joined up sentences and makes sense. > > My complaint about the series as a whole, is not being able to differentiate between ?real? pictures from space, and CG. > > I used to have the same doubts about natural history/wildlife progs., when Oxford Scientific were used. It?s more important than ever in the era of ?fake news?. > > As an aside, how, exactly, do you wake a craft that?s gazillions of miles/kilometres away? How do you know you?re pointing the thing properly, cf. shining a torch at the moon? > > Alasdair Lawrance > > Sent from my iPad Pro. > > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:19, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 > wrote: > >> Is it just me, or do others of a certain age sometimes look at the tele and think to themselves, "Come back Eric Ilet, all is forgiven!" >> I enjoyed 'The Planets', apart from the usual excessive music. All that CGI stuff was very spectacular - even if they used each shot ten times. >> But occasionally, just occasionally, I thought, Can't we see a diagram? Just a nice simple line drawing, so we can see where these orbits cross one another and how these planets move. No need for slidey bits of cardboard or wobbly strap-easels, these days. You can now do the moving bits electrically, I'm told. >> E.g. If you want to show the scale of the solar system, why not use a diagram, with everything in proportion? I could understand that. Why do we have to see Brian Cox walking, driving, sailing, across Reykjavik harbour? I've never been to Reykjavik. I've no idea how big it is! So, how's that going to help my sense of scale? And it was too dark to see the stones in his hand, which were meant to be the planets. It makes a change from sitting on a Tahitian beach, arranging rocks in the sand, I suppose. But I still think a diagram would be better (and much, much cheaper!) >> Brian Cox seems a nice chap, but when he wants to show me a photo, why is he sitting, back-lit, in the middle of the Arizona desert, trying to show me something on his iPad/Tablet? (or whatever that thing is). Most of the time I can't see what's on the screen, because of the flare, or because his hand's in the way. Why don't we cut straight to a photo? Preferably with a diagram to show where it fits into the solar system. >> Bring back BBC Graphics! >> >> luv, Rog. >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Thu Jun 27 02:24:12 2019 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:24:12 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <3DFEF05F-BCD3-40CF-9BFB-EF3F4C47BBED@me.com> References: <1353195936.833494.1561583976395.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1353195936.833494.1561583976395@mail.yahoo.com> <3DFEF05F-BCD3-40CF-9BFB-EF3F4C47BBED@me.com> Message-ID: On the subject of scale of the solar system, The Smithsonin in Washington DC has a good demonstration. Using the Dome of the Capitol as the sun they have scale models of the planets at appropriate distances along the mall towards the Washington monument. Pluto is about the size of a table-tennis ball about three-quarters of a mile from the building, now try to reduce that onto a sheet of A4! ? Graeme Wall > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:35, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: > > Agree, Rog, Brian seems a nice enough guy, uses joined up sentences and makes sense. > > My complaint about the series as a whole, is not being able to differentiate between ?real? pictures from space, and CG. > > I used to have the same doubts about natural history/wildlife progs., when Oxford Scientific were used. It?s more important than ever in the era of ?fake news?. > > As an aside, how, exactly, do you wake a craft that?s gazillions of miles/kilometres away? How do you know you?re pointing the thing properly, cf. shining a torch at the moon? > > Alasdair Lawrance > > Sent from my iPad Pro. > > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:19, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > >> Is it just me, or do others of a certain age sometimes look at the tele and think to themselves, "Come back Eric Ilet, all is forgiven!" >> I enjoyed 'The Planets', apart from the usual excessive music. All that CGI stuff was very spectacular - even if they used each shot ten times. >> But occasionally, just occasionally, I thought, Can't we see a diagram? Just a nice simple line drawing, so we can see where these orbits cross one another and how these planets move. No need for slidey bits of cardboard or wobbly strap-easels, these days. You can now do the moving bits electrically, I'm told. >> E.g. If you want to show the scale of the solar system, why not use a diagram, with everything in proportion? I could understand that. Why do we have to see Brian Cox walking, driving, sailing, across Reykjavik harbour? I've never been to Reykjavik. I've no idea how big it is! So, how's that going to help my sense of scale? And it was too dark to see the stones in his hand, which were meant to be the planets. It makes a change from sitting on a Tahitian beach, arranging rocks in the sand, I suppose. But I still think a diagram would be better (and much, much cheaper!) >> Brian Cox seems a nice chap, but when he wants to show me a photo, why is he sitting, back-lit, in the middle of the Arizona desert, trying to show me something on his iPad/Tablet? (or whatever that thing is). Most of the time I can't see what's on the screen, because of the flare, or because his hand's in the way. Why don't we cut straight to a photo? Preferably with a diagram to show where it fits into the solar system. >> Bring back BBC Graphics! >> >> luv, Rog. >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com Thu Jun 27 02:52:01 2019 From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 08:52:01 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets Message-ID: On the towpath of a canal in Somerset there is a similar idea. A concrete sphere about 2 metres diameter represents the sun, and as you walk along the path you find concrete plinths with metal balls embedded in them for the planets - about the size of a marble for Mercury, for example, then over about a quarter of a mile Venus, Earth and Mars, and we continued walking to find Jupiter, but had to give up after another mile or so as we were out of time. I believe the whole thing is over 6 miles long.?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Graeme Wall via Tech1 Date: 27/06/2019 08:24 (GMT+00:00) To: Alasdair Lawrance Cc: Tech Ops List Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets On the subject of scale of the solar system, The Smithsonin in Washington DC has a good demonstration.? Using the Dome of the Capitol as the sun they have scale models of the planets at appropriate distances along the mall towards the Washington monument. Pluto is about the size of a table-tennis ball about three-quarters of a mile from the building, now try to reduce that onto a sheet of A4!? Graeme Wall> On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:35, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote:> > Agree, Rog, Brian seems a nice enough guy, uses joined up sentences and makes sense.> > My complaint about the series as a whole, is not being able to differentiate between ?real? pictures from space, and CG.> > I used to have the same doubts about natural history/wildlife progs., when Oxford Scientific were used. It?s more important than ever in the era of ?fake news?.> > As an aside, how, exactly, do you wake a craft that?s gazillions of miles/kilometres away?? How do you know you?re pointing the thing properly, cf. shining a torch at the moon?> > Alasdair Lawrance> > Sent from my iPad Pro.> > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:19, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote:> >>???? Is it just me, or do others of a certain age sometimes look at the tele and think to themselves, "Come back Eric Ilet, all is forgiven!" >>???? I enjoyed 'The Planets', apart from the usual excessive music. All that CGI stuff was very spectacular - even if they used each shot ten times.>>???? But occasionally, just occasionally, I thought, Can't we see a diagram? Just a nice simple line drawing, so we can see where these orbits cross one another and how these planets move. No need for slidey bits of cardboard or wobbly strap-easels, these days. You can now do the moving bits electrically, I'm told.>>???? E.g. If you want to show the scale of the solar system, why not use a diagram, with everything in proportion? I could understand that. Why do we have to see Brian Cox walking, driving, sailing, across Reykjavik harbour? I've never been to Reykjavik. I've no idea how big it is! So, how's that going to help my sense of scale? And it was too dark to see the stones in his hand, which were meant to be the planets. It makes a change from sitting on a Tahitian beach, arranging rocks in the sand, I suppose. But I still think a diagram would be better (and much, much cheaper!)>>???? Brian Cox seems a nice chap, but when he wants to show me a photo, why is he sitting, back-lit, in the middle of the Arizona desert, trying to show me something on his iPad/Tablet? (or whatever that thing is). Most of the time I can't see what's on the screen, because of the flare, or because his hand's in the way. Why don't we cut straight to a photo? Preferably with a diagram to show where it fits into the solar system.>>???? Bring back BBC Graphics!>> >> luv, Rog.>> -- >> Tech1 mailing list>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk> -- > Tech1 mailing list> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Thu Jun 27 03:05:26 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:05:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. To quote somebody or other On Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 08:52 vernon.dyer via Tech1, wrote: > > On the towpath of a canal in Somerset there is a similar idea. A concrete > sphere about 2 metres diameter represents the sun, and as you walk along > the path you find concrete plinths with metal balls embedded in them for > the planets - about the size of a marble for Mercury, for example, then > over about a quarter of a mile Venus, Earth and Mars, and we continued > walking to find Jupiter, but had to give up after another mile or so as we > were out of time. I believe the whole thing is over 6 miles long. > > > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. > -------- Original message -------- > From: Graeme Wall via Tech1 > Date: 27/06/2019 08:24 (GMT+00:00) > To: Alasdair Lawrance > Cc: Tech Ops List > Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets > > On the subject of scale of the solar system, The Smithsonin in Washington > DC has a good demonstration. Using the Dome of the Capitol as the sun they > have scale models of the planets at appropriate distances along the mall > towards the Washington monument. Pluto is about the size of a table-tennis > ball about three-quarters of a mile from the building, now try to reduce > that onto a sheet of A4! > ? > Graeme Wall > > > > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:35, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 < > tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > > > > Agree, Rog, Brian seems a nice enough guy, uses joined up sentences and > makes sense. > > > > My complaint about the series as a whole, is not being able to > differentiate between ?real? pictures from space, and CG. > > > > I used to have the same doubts about natural history/wildlife progs., > when Oxford Scientific were used. It?s more important than ever in the era > of ?fake news?. > > > > As an aside, how, exactly, do you wake a craft that?s gazillions of > miles/kilometres away? How do you know you?re pointing the thing properly, > cf. shining a torch at the moon? > > > > Alasdair Lawrance > > > > Sent from my iPad Pro. > > > > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:19, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 > wrote: > > > >> Is it just me, or do others of a certain age sometimes look at the > tele and think to themselves, "Come back Eric Ilet, all is forgiven!" > >> I enjoyed 'The Planets', apart from the usual excessive music. All > that CGI stuff was very spectacular - even if they used each shot ten times. > >> But occasionally, just occasionally, I thought, Can't we see a > diagram? Just a nice simple line drawing, so we can see where these orbits > cross one another and how these planets move. No need for slidey bits of > cardboard or wobbly strap-easels, these days. You can now do the moving > bits electrically, I'm told. > >> E.g. If you want to show the scale of the solar system, why not use > a diagram, with everything in proportion? I could understand that. Why do > we have to see Brian Cox walking, driving, sailing, across Reykjavik > harbour? I've never been to Reykjavik. I've no idea how big it is! So, > how's that going to help my sense of scale? And it was too dark to see the > stones in his hand, which were meant to be the planets. It makes a change > from sitting on a Tahitian beach, arranging rocks in the sand, I suppose. > But I still think a diagram would be better (and much, much cheaper!) > >> Brian Cox seems a nice chap, but when he wants to show me a photo, > why is he sitting, back-lit, in the middle of the Arizona desert, trying to > show me something on his iPad/Tablet? (or whatever that thing is). Most of > the time I can't see what's on the screen, because of the flare, or because > his hand's in the way. Why don't we cut straight to a photo? Preferably > with a diagram to show where it fits into the solar system. > >> Bring back BBC Graphics! > >> > >> luv, Rog. > >> -- > >> Tech1 mailing list > >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Thu Jun 27 03:09:03 2019 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:09:03 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don?t Panic! ? Graeme Wall > On 27 Jun 2019, at 09:05, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > > Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. > > To quote somebody or other > > On Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 08:52 vernon.dyer via Tech1, wrote: > > On the towpath of a canal in Somerset there is a similar idea. A concrete sphere about 2 metres diameter represents the sun, and as you walk along the path you find concrete plinths with metal balls embedded in them for the planets - about the size of a marble for Mercury, for example, then over about a quarter of a mile Venus, Earth and Mars, and we continued walking to find Jupiter, but had to give up after another mile or so as we were out of time. I believe the whole thing is over 6 miles long. > > > Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. > -------- Original message -------- > From: Graeme Wall via Tech1 > Date: 27/06/2019 08:24 (GMT+00:00) > To: Alasdair Lawrance > Cc: Tech Ops List > Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets > > On the subject of scale of the solar system, The Smithsonin in Washington DC has a good demonstration. Using the Dome of the Capitol as the sun they have scale models of the planets at appropriate distances along the mall towards the Washington monument. Pluto is about the size of a table-tennis ball about three-quarters of a mile from the building, now try to reduce that onto a sheet of A4! > ? > Graeme Wall > > > > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:35, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: > > > > Agree, Rog, Brian seems a nice enough guy, uses joined up sentences and makes sense. > > > > My complaint about the series as a whole, is not being able to differentiate between ?real? pictures from space, and CG. > > > > I used to have the same doubts about natural history/wildlife progs., when Oxford Scientific were used. It?s more important than ever in the era of ?fake news?. > > > > As an aside, how, exactly, do you wake a craft that?s gazillions of miles/kilometres away? How do you know you?re pointing the thing properly, cf. shining a torch at the moon? > > > > Alasdair Lawrance > > > > Sent from my iPad Pro. > > > > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:19, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > > > >> Is it just me, or do others of a certain age sometimes look at the tele and think to themselves, "Come back Eric Ilet, all is forgiven!" > >> I enjoyed 'The Planets', apart from the usual excessive music. All that CGI stuff was very spectacular - even if they used each shot ten times. > >> But occasionally, just occasionally, I thought, Can't we see a diagram? Just a nice simple line drawing, so we can see where these orbits cross one another and how these planets move. No need for slidey bits of cardboard or wobbly strap-easels, these days. You can now do the moving bits electrically, I'm told. > >> E.g. If you want to show the scale of the solar system, why not use a diagram, with everything in proportion? I could understand that. Why do we have to see Brian Cox walking, driving, sailing, across Reykjavik harbour? I've never been to Reykjavik. I've no idea how big it is! So, how's that going to help my sense of scale? And it was too dark to see the stones in his hand, which were meant to be the planets. It makes a change from sitting on a Tahitian beach, arranging rocks in the sand, I suppose. But I still think a diagram would be better (and much, much cheaper!) > >> Brian Cox seems a nice chap, but when he wants to show me a photo, why is he sitting, back-lit, in the middle of the Arizona desert, trying to show me something on his iPad/Tablet? (or whatever that thing is). Most of the time I can't see what's on the screen, because of the flare, or because his hand's in the way. Why don't we cut straight to a photo? Preferably with a diagram to show where it fits into the solar system. > >> Bring back BBC Graphics! > >> > >> luv, Rog. > >> -- > >> Tech1 mailing list > >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From jccglass at gmail.com Thu Jun 27 03:21:44 2019 From: jccglass at gmail.com (Chris on gmail) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:21:44 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets BIG BANG References: Message-ID: <07B3F7EA711647E59ED95675E2090E86@dell9100> IF it all started with a big bang! The 64 million dollar question IS - Why didn't (there's that dam apostrophy again) it all collapse into a Black Hole? Chris Glass From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Thu Jun 27 03:29:21 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:29:21 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1C024C6A4D4B4F2B885C3DBFE082707C@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> The canal Vernon refers to is the Bridgwater and Taunton Canal, the planet spheres being duplicated both North and South from the roughly central point of Upper Maunsel Lock where the sun is located. There is an excellent canal-side cafe at Lower Maunsel Lock close by. I?ve known this canal from the early 1950?s and although only 14 miles long it has much to offer both scenically, biologically and industrial background history. Dave Newbitt From: vernon.dyer via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2019 8:52 AM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets On the towpath of a canal in Somerset there is a similar idea. A concrete sphere about 2 metres diameter represents the sun, and as you walk along the path you find concrete plinths with metal balls embedded in them for the planets - about the size of a marble for Mercury, for example, then over about a quarter of a mile Venus, Earth and Mars, and we continued walking to find Jupiter, but had to give up after another mile or so as we were out of time. I believe the whole thing is over 6 miles long. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: Graeme Wall via Tech1 Date: 27/06/2019 08:24 (GMT+00:00) To: Alasdair Lawrance Cc: Tech Ops List Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets On the subject of scale of the solar system, The Smithsonin in Washington DC has a good demonstration. Using the Dome of the Capitol as the sun they have scale models of the planets at appropriate distances along the mall towards the Washington monument. Pluto is about the size of a table-tennis ball about three-quarters of a mile from the building, now try to reduce that onto a sheet of A4! ? Graeme Wall > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:35, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: > > Agree, Rog, Brian seems a nice enough guy, uses joined up sentences and makes sense. > > My complaint about the series as a whole, is not being able to differentiate between ?real? pictures from space, and CG. > > I used to have the same doubts about natural history/wildlife progs., when Oxford Scientific were used. It?s more important than ever in the era of ?fake news?. > > As an aside, how, exactly, do you wake a craft that?s gazillions of miles/kilometres away? How do you know you?re pointing the thing properly, cf. shining a torch at the moon? > > Alasdair Lawrance > > Sent from my iPad Pro. > > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:19, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > >> Is it just me, or do others of a certain age sometimes look at the tele and think to themselves, "Come back Eric Ilet, all is forgiven!" >> I enjoyed 'The Planets', apart from the usual excessive music. All that CGI stuff was very spectacular - even if they used each shot ten times. >> But occasionally, just occasionally, I thought, Can't we see a diagram? Just a nice simple line drawing, so we can see where these orbits cross one another and how these planets move. No need for slidey bits of cardboard or wobbly strap-easels, these days. You can now do the moving bits electrically, I'm told. >> E.g. If you want to show the scale of the solar system, why not use a diagram, with everything in proportion? I could understand that. Why do we have to see Brian Cox walking, driving, sailing, across Reykjavik harbour? I've never been to Reykjavik. I've no idea how big it is! So, how's that going to help my sense of scale? And it was too dark to see the stones in his hand, which were meant to be the planets. It makes a change from sitting on a Tahitian beach, arranging rocks in the sand, I suppose. But I still think a diagram would be better (and much, much cheaper!) >> Brian Cox seems a nice chap, but when he wants to show me a photo, why is he sitting, back-lit, in the middle of the Arizona desert, trying to show me something on his iPad/Tablet? (or whatever that thing is). Most of the time I can't see what's on the screen, because of the flare, or because his hand's in the way. Why don't we cut straight to a photo? Preferably with a diagram to show where it fits into the solar system. >> Bring back BBC Graphics! >> >> luv, Rog. >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alawrance1 at me.com Thu Jun 27 04:36:59 2019 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:36:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9617523E-1340-4B27-9E7A-8FB862ED7463@me.com> ?Brain the size of a planet and all they want me to do is open the lift doors? - Marvin, the Paranoid Android. Alasdair Lawrance Sent from my iPad Pro. > On 27 Jun 2019, at 09:09, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: > > Don?t Panic! > ? > Graeme Wall > > >> On 27 Jun 2019, at 09:05, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >> >> Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. >> >> To quote somebody or other >> >> On Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 08:52 vernon.dyer via Tech1, wrote: >> >> On the towpath of a canal in Somerset there is a similar idea. A concrete sphere about 2 metres diameter represents the sun, and as you walk along the path you find concrete plinths with metal balls embedded in them for the planets - about the size of a marble for Mercury, for example, then over about a quarter of a mile Venus, Earth and Mars, and we continued walking to find Jupiter, but had to give up after another mile or so as we were out of time. I believe the whole thing is over 6 miles long. >> >> >> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Graeme Wall via Tech1 >> Date: 27/06/2019 08:24 (GMT+00:00) >> To: Alasdair Lawrance >> Cc: Tech Ops List >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets >> >> On the subject of scale of the solar system, The Smithsonin in Washington DC has a good demonstration. Using the Dome of the Capitol as the sun they have scale models of the planets at appropriate distances along the mall towards the Washington monument. Pluto is about the size of a table-tennis ball about three-quarters of a mile from the building, now try to reduce that onto a sheet of A4! >> ? >> Graeme Wall >> >> >>> On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:35, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> Agree, Rog, Brian seems a nice enough guy, uses joined up sentences and makes sense. >>> >>> My complaint about the series as a whole, is not being able to differentiate between ?real? pictures from space, and CG. >>> >>> I used to have the same doubts about natural history/wildlife progs., when Oxford Scientific were used. It?s more important than ever in the era of ?fake news?. >>> >>> As an aside, how, exactly, do you wake a craft that?s gazillions of miles/kilometres away? How do you know you?re pointing the thing properly, cf. shining a torch at the moon? >>> >>> Alasdair Lawrance >>> >>> Sent from my iPad Pro. >>> >>>> On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:19, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> Is it just me, or do others of a certain age sometimes look at the tele and think to themselves, "Come back Eric Ilet, all is forgiven!" >>>> I enjoyed 'The Planets', apart from the usual excessive music. All that CGI stuff was very spectacular - even if they used each shot ten times. >>>> But occasionally, just occasionally, I thought, Can't we see a diagram? Just a nice simple line drawing, so we can see where these orbits cross one another and how these planets move. No need for slidey bits of cardboard or wobbly strap-easels, these days. You can now do the moving bits electrically, I'm told. >>>> E.g. If you want to show the scale of the solar system, why not use a diagram, with everything in proportion? I could understand that. Why do we have to see Brian Cox walking, driving, sailing, across Reykjavik harbour? I've never been to Reykjavik. I've no idea how big it is! So, how's that going to help my sense of scale? And it was too dark to see the stones in his hand, which were meant to be the planets. It makes a change from sitting on a Tahitian beach, arranging rocks in the sand, I suppose. But I still think a diagram would be better (and much, much cheaper!) >>>> Brian Cox seems a nice chap, but when he wants to show me a photo, why is he sitting, back-lit, in the middle of the Arizona desert, trying to show me something on his iPad/Tablet? (or whatever that thing is). Most of the time I can't see what's on the screen, because of the flare, or because his hand's in the way. Why don't we cut straight to a photo? Preferably with a diagram to show where it fits into the solar system. >>>> Bring back BBC Graphics! >>>> >>>> luv, Rog. >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From rogerbunce at btinternet.com Thu Jun 27 06:26:39 2019 From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:26:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <3DFEF05F-BCD3-40CF-9BFB-EF3F4C47BBED@me.com> References: <1353195936.833494.1561583976395.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1353195936.833494.1561583976395@mail.yahoo.com> <3DFEF05F-BCD3-40CF-9BFB-EF3F4C47BBED@me.com> Message-ID: <575292461.1216827.1561634799617@mail.yahoo.com> I was thinking the same. Occasionally, you'd seen a scene of swirling Jovian clouds and think, that's a real photo. But then the spacecraft would fly though foreground, and you'd think, (given that there was no camera out there to photograph the spacecraft) Ah! that must be CGI - OR, is to a real photo in the background, with a CGI spacecraft in foreground? Then they'd cut to some vaguely relevant landscape on Earth, and you'd have no idea where you were. Re your aside. Although they said the 'New Horizons' probe was hibernating, it must have had some active bits, e.g. a transponder so that they could keep track of its trajectory, and receive the awakening signal from Earth. Maybe there was also an onboard alarm clock? luv, Rog. On Wednesday, 26 June 2019, 22:35:50 BST, Alasdair Lawrance wrote: Agree, Rog, Brian seems a nice enough guy, uses joined up sentences and makes sense. My complaint about the series as a whole, is not being able to differentiate between ?real? pictures from space, and CG. I used to have the same doubts about natural history/wildlife progs., when Oxford Scientific were used. It?s more important than ever in the era of ?fake news?. As an aside, how, exactly, do you wake a craft that?s gazillions of miles/kilometres away? ?How do you know you?re pointing the thing properly, cf. shining a torch at the moon? Alasdair Lawrance Sent from my iPad Pro. On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:19, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: ????Is it just me, or do others of a certain age sometimes look at the tele and think to themselves, "Come back Eric Ilet, all is forgiven!"?????I enjoyed 'The Planets', apart from the usual excessive music. All that CGI stuff was very spectacular - even if they used each shot ten times.????But occasionally, just occasionally, I thought, Can't we see a diagram? Just a nice simple line drawing, so we can see where these orbits cross one another and how these planets move. No need for slidey bits of cardboard or wobbly strap-easels, these days. You can now do the moving bits electrically, I'm told.????E.g. If you want to show the scale of the solar system, why not use a diagram, with everything in proportion? I could understand that. Why do we have to see Brian Cox walking, driving, sailing, across Reykjavik harbour? I've never been to Reykjavik. I've no idea how big it is! So, how's that going to help my sense of scale? And it was too dark to see the stones in his hand, which were meant to be the planets. It makes a change from sitting on a Tahitian beach, arranging rocks in the sand, I suppose. But I still think a diagram would be better (and much, much cheaper!)? ? Brian Cox seems a nice chap, but when he wants to show me a photo, why is he sitting, back-lit, in the middle of the Arizona desert, trying to show me something on his iPad/Tablet? (or whatever that thing is). Most of the time I can't see what's on the screen, because of the flare, or because his hand's in the way. Why don't we cut straight to a photo? Preferably with a diagram to show where it fits into the solar system. ? ? Bring back BBC Graphics! luv, Rog. -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rogerbunce at btinternet.com Thu Jun 27 06:34:19 2019 From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:34:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: <1353195936.833494.1561583976395.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1353195936.833494.1561583976395@mail.yahoo.com> <3DFEF05F-BCD3-40CF-9BFB-EF3F4C47BBED@me.com> Message-ID: <1757624713.1214231.1561635259532@mail.yahoo.com> There's a similar one, somewhere else in the USA. I just remember that Jupiter was the size of a beachball, and was inside a supermarket. I always felt that Greenwich observatory should do something similar. They could space the planets out along the meridian line. There's plenty of free space, in Greenwich Park and Blackheath for the inner solar system. luv, Rog.? On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 08:24:16 BST, Graeme Wall wrote: On the subject of scale of the solar system, The Smithsonin in Washington DC has a good demonstration.? Using the Dome of the Capitol as the sun they have scale models of the planets at appropriate distances along the mall towards the Washington monument. Pluto is about the size of a table-tennis ball about three-quarters of a mile from the building, now try to reduce that onto a sheet of A4! ? Graeme Wall > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:35, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: > > Agree, Rog, Brian seems a nice enough guy, uses joined up sentences and makes sense. > > My complaint about the series as a whole, is not being able to differentiate between ?real? pictures from space, and CG. > > I used to have the same doubts about natural history/wildlife progs., when Oxford Scientific were used. It?s more important than ever in the era of ?fake news?. > > As an aside, how, exactly, do you wake a craft that?s gazillions of miles/kilometres away?? How do you know you?re pointing the thing properly, cf. shining a torch at the moon? > > Alasdair Lawrance > > Sent from my iPad Pro. > > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:19, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > >>? ? Is it just me, or do others of a certain age sometimes look at the tele and think to themselves, "Come back Eric Ilet, all is forgiven!" >>? ? I enjoyed 'The Planets', apart from the usual excessive music. All that CGI stuff was very spectacular - even if they used each shot ten times. >>? ? But occasionally, just occasionally, I thought, Can't we see a diagram? Just a nice simple line drawing, so we can see where these orbits cross one another and how these planets move. No need for slidey bits of cardboard or wobbly strap-easels, these days. You can now do the moving bits electrically, I'm told. >>? ? E.g. If you want to show the scale of the solar system, why not use a diagram, with everything in proportion? I could understand that. Why do we have to see Brian Cox walking, driving, sailing, across Reykjavik harbour? I've never been to Reykjavik. I've no idea how big it is! So, how's that going to help my sense of scale? And it was too dark to see the stones in his hand, which were meant to be the planets. It makes a change from sitting on a Tahitian beach, arranging rocks in the sand, I suppose. But I still think a diagram would be better (and much, much cheaper!) >>? ? Brian Cox seems a nice chap, but when he wants to show me a photo, why is he sitting, back-lit, in the middle of the Arizona desert, trying to show me something on his iPad/Tablet? (or whatever that thing is). Most of the time I can't see what's on the screen, because of the flare, or because his hand's in the way. Why don't we cut straight to a photo? Preferably with a diagram to show where it fits into the solar system. >>? ? Bring back BBC Graphics! >> >> luv, Rog. >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rogerbunce at btinternet.com Thu Jun 27 06:36:57 2019 From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:36:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <234736753.1226300.1561635417165@mail.yahoo.com> Maybe that was the iPad/Tablet thingy that Brian Cox was holding. It was 'The Book'. luv, Rog. On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 09:06:11 BST, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. To quote somebody or other On Thu, 27 Jun 2019, 08:52 vernon.dyer via Tech1, wrote: On the towpath of a canal in Somerset there is a similar idea. A concrete sphere about 2 metres diameter represents the sun, and as you walk along the path you find concrete plinths with metal balls embedded in them for the planets - about the size of a marble for Mercury, for example, then over about a quarter of a mile Venus, Earth and Mars, and we continued walking to find Jupiter, but had to give up after another mile or so as we were out of time. I believe the whole thing is over 6 miles long.? Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Graeme Wall via Tech1 Date: 27/06/2019 08:24 (GMT+00:00) To: Alasdair Lawrance Cc: Tech Ops List Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets On the subject of scale of the solar system, The Smithsonin in Washington DC has a good demonstration.? Using the Dome of the Capitol as the sun they have scale models of the planets at appropriate distances along the mall towards the Washington monument. Pluto is about the size of a table-tennis ball about three-quarters of a mile from the building, now try to reduce that onto a sheet of A4! ? Graeme Wall > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:35, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote: > > Agree, Rog, Brian seems a nice enough guy, uses joined up sentences and makes sense. > > My complaint about the series as a whole, is not being able to differentiate between ?real? pictures from space, and CG. > > I used to have the same doubts about natural history/wildlife progs., when Oxford Scientific were used. It?s more important than ever in the era of ?fake news?. > > As an aside, how, exactly, do you wake a craft that?s gazillions of miles/kilometres away?? How do you know you?re pointing the thing properly, cf. shining a torch at the moon? > > Alasdair Lawrance > > Sent from my iPad Pro. > > On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:19, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > >>???? Is it just me, or do others of a certain age sometimes look at the tele and think to themselves, "Come back Eric Ilet, all is forgiven!" >>???? I enjoyed 'The Planets', apart from the usual excessive music. All that CGI stuff was very spectacular - even if they used each shot ten times. >>???? But occasionally, just occasionally, I thought, Can't we see a diagram? Just a nice simple line drawing, so we can see where these orbits cross one another and how these planets move. No need for slidey bits of cardboard or wobbly strap-easels, these days. You can now do the moving bits electrically, I'm told. >>???? E.g. If you want to show the scale of the solar system, why not use a diagram, with everything in proportion? I could understand that. Why do we have to see Brian Cox walking, driving, sailing, across Reykjavik harbour? I've never been to Reykjavik. I've no idea how big it is! So, how's that going to help my sense of scale? And it was too dark to see the stones in his hand, which were meant to be the planets. It makes a change from sitting on a Tahitian beach, arranging rocks in the sand, I suppose. But I still think a diagram would be better (and much, much cheaper!) >>???? Brian Cox seems a nice chap, but when he wants to show me a photo, why is he sitting, back-lit, in the middle of the Arizona desert, trying to show me something on his iPad/Tablet? (or whatever that thing is). Most of the time I can't see what's on the screen, because of the flare, or because his hand's in the way. Why don't we cut straight to a photo? Preferably with a diagram to show where it fits into the solar system. >>???? Bring back BBC Graphics! >> >> luv, Rog. >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com Thu Jun 27 06:38:07 2019 From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:38:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets Message-ID: Yes Rog, but in space how would you hear it ring?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 Date: 27/06/2019 12:26 (GMT+00:00) To: Alasdair Lawrance Cc: Tech Ops List Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets I was thinking the same. Occasionally, you'd seen a scene of swirling Jovian clouds and think, that's a real photo. But then the spacecraft would fly though foreground, and you'd think, (given that there was no camera out there to photograph the spacecraft) Ah! that must be CGI - OR, is to a real photo in the background, with a CGI spacecraft in foreground? Then they'd cut to some vaguely relevant landscape on Earth, and you'd have no idea where you were.Re your aside. Although they said the 'New Horizons' probe was hibernating, it must have had some active bits, e.g. a transponder so that they could keep track of its trajectory, and receive the awakening signal from Earth. Maybe there was also an onboard alarm clock?luv, Rog. On Wednesday, 26 June 2019, 22:35:50 BST, Alasdair Lawrance wrote: Agree, Rog, Brian seems a nice enough guy, uses joined up sentences and makes sense.My complaint about the series as a whole, is not being able to differentiate between ?real? pictures from space, and CG.I used to have the same doubts about natural history/wildlife progs., when Oxford Scientific were used. It?s more important than ever in the era of ?fake news?.As an aside, how, exactly, do you wake a craft that?s gazillions of miles/kilometres away? ?How do you know you?re pointing the thing properly, cf. shining a torch at the moon?Alasdair LawranceSent from my iPad Pro.On 26 Jun 2019, at 22:19, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote:????Is it just me, or do others of a certain age sometimes look at the tele and think to themselves, "Come back Eric Ilet, all is forgiven!"?????I enjoyed 'The Planets', apart from the usual excessive music. All that CGI stuff was very spectacular - even if they used each shot ten times.????But occasionally, just occasionally, I thought, Can't we see a diagram? Just a nice simple line drawing, so we can see where these orbits cross one another and how these planets move. No need for slidey bits of cardboard or wobbly strap-easels, these days. You can now do the moving bits electrically, I'm told.????E.g. If you want to show the scale of the solar system, why not use a diagram, with everything in proportion? I could understand that. Why do we have to see Brian Cox walking, driving, sailing, across Reykjavik harbour? I've never been to Reykjavik. I've no idea how big it is! So, how's that going to help my sense of scale? And it was too dark to see the stones in his hand, which were meant to be the planets. It makes a change from sitting on a Tahitian beach, arranging rocks in the sand, I suppose. But I still think a diagram would be better (and much, much cheaper!)? ? Brian Cox seems a nice chap, but when he wants to show me a photo, why is he sitting, back-lit, in the middle of the Arizona desert, trying to show me something on his iPad/Tablet? (or whatever that thing is). Most of the time I can't see what's on the screen, because of the flare, or because his hand's in the way. Why don't we cut straight to a photo? Preferably with a diagram to show where it fits into the solar system.? ? Bring back BBC Graphics!luv, Rog.-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jun 27 07:39:15 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:39:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the Universe contained in? If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. Pat (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 To: Vernon Dyer Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. To quote somebody or other --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com Thu Jun 27 09:51:15 2019 From: geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com (geoff.hawkes134 at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:51:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets & the Universe Message-ID: <002a01d52cf7$c541dd70$4fc59850$@gmail.com> About ten years ago I was working on a show in TC7 with an expert talking about the size of the universe and that the universe was expanding. I asked him afterwards what lay beyond the universe and whether you could ever reach the end. He said you couldn?t as there was no end. So I said, if it?s expanding, into what as it implied vacant space beyond it? He said it was like a balloon which expands as you put air or gas into it but that there was no end as everything that is, exits inside it. There?s also the concept of multiple universes, though I don?t see how there could be more than one as I thought the term implied unity of everything. To quote the song ?There Are More Questions Than Answers? by Johnny Nash, ?The more I find out, the less I know?? https://youtu.be/DDTvLldOgZs?t=2 Regards, Geoff From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of patheigham via Tech1 Sent: 27 June 2019 13:39 To: Bernard Newnham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the Universe contained in? If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. Pat (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 To: Vernon Dyer Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. To quote somebody or other Virus-free. www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Thu Jun 27 10:09:19 2019 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:09:19 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets & the Universe In-Reply-To: <002a01d52cf7$c541dd70$4fc59850$@gmail.com> References: <002a01d52cf7$c541dd70$4fc59850$@gmail.com> Message-ID: It?s probably quantum. ? Graeme Wall > On 27 Jun 2019, at 15:51, geoff.hawkes134--- via Tech1 wrote: > > About ten years ago I was working on a show in TC7 with an expert talking about the size of the universe and that the universe was expanding. I asked him afterwards what lay beyond the universe and whether you could ever reach the end. He said you couldn?t as there was no end. So I said, if it?s expanding, into what as it implied vacant space beyond it? He said it was like a balloon which expands as you put air or gas into it but that there was no end as everything that is, exits inside it. There?s also the concept of multiple universes, though I don?t see how there could be more than one as I thought the term implied unity of everything. > > To quote the song ?There Are More Questions Than Answers? by Johnny Nash, ?The more I find out, the less I know?? https://youtu.be/DDTvLldOgZs?t=2 > Regards, > Geoff > From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of patheigham via Tech1 > Sent: 27 June 2019 13:39 > To: Bernard Newnham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets > > My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the Universe contained in? > If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? > Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. > Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? > A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! > Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. > > Pat > (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 > To: Vernon Dyer > Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets > > Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. > > To quote somebody or other > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From rogerbunce at btinternet.com Thu Jun 27 11:04:26 2019 From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:04:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> ????O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On the Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, if you just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you started. In Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path taken by a ray of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but it's still the straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, if there is enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire Universe, then all rays of light will be bent round into complete circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back to where you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any more, because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of an 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no edge to the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light could ever leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire Universe is on the inside of a stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black Hole! (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? ? ? Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional voices by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series here, Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws of Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. ? ? But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was those two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. I'm sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a picture, showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of their gravity, how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in place, without demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to myself the counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes push stuff away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own mental diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even thicker than me (never actually met any, but there might be) that too could have done with some animated illustrations. luv, Rog. P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the end - it's impossible not to cheer!? ? ?? ? ?? On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the Universe contained in? If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. ? Pat (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) ? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ? From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 To: Vernon Dyer Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets ? Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. ? To quote somebody or other ? ? | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Thu Jun 27 11:18:11 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 17:18:11 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There's this - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif Never give up, never surrender B On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > ????O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking > about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the > shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On > the Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, > if you just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you > started. In Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path > taken by a ray of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but > it's still the straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, > if there is enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire > Universe, then all rays of light will be bent round into complete > circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep > going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back to where > you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any more, > because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then > you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of > an 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no > edge to the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light > could ever leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire > Universe is on the inside of a > stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black Hole! > (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe > only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light > into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? > > ? ? Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! > Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey > animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional > voices by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series > here, Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws > of Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. > > ? ? But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was > those two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. > I'm sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he > managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a > picture, showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of > their gravity, how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in > place, without demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to > myself the counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes > push stuff away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own > mental diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even > thicker than me (never actually met any, but there might be) that too > could have done with some animated illustrations. > > luv, Rog. > > P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise > that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when > the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the > end - it's impossible not to cheer! > > > > > > On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 > wrote: > > > My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the > Universe contained in? > > If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like > the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? > > Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. > > Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean > endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually > manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? > > A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe > Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, > earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! > Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the > corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. > > Pat > > (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the > cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another > planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the > have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a > plywood stage set!) > > Sent from Mail for > Windows 10 > > *From: *Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > *Sent: *27 June 2019 09:05 > *To: *Vernon Dyer > *Cc: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] The Planets > > Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, > mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down > the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. > > To quote somebody or other > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johna.bennett at talktalk.net Thu Jun 27 11:27:07 2019 From: johna.bennett at talktalk.net (John Bennett) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 17:27:07 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <878435af-07ac-cea5-777d-6dd80697d1cd@talktalk.net> The Bridgwater and Taunton Canal. I must go and visit this. https://www.livefortheoutdoors.com/outdoorfeatures/2016/6/30/how-to-walk-the-solar-system Cheers?? John On 27/06/2019 08:52, vernon.dyer via Tech1 wrote: > > On the towpath of a canal in Somerset there is a similar idea. A > concrete sphere about 2 metres diameter represents the sun, and as you > walk along the path you find concrete plinths with metal balls > embedded in them for the planets - about the size of a marble for > Mercury, for example, then over about a quarter of a mile Venus, Earth > and Mars, and we continued walking to find Jupiter, but had to give up > after another mile or so as we were out of time. I believe the whole > thing is over 6 miles long. > > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- John Bennett 07768 527518 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Thu Jun 27 11:41:13 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 17:41:13 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <878435af-07ac-cea5-777d-6dd80697d1cd@talktalk.net> References: <878435af-07ac-cea5-777d-6dd80697d1cd@talktalk.net> Message-ID: <76F9DDE62A3C45C3A3F590EFE8A8CBDB@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> I commented on the canal in a post this morning shortly after Vernon?s post of 0852 because I know the canal fairly well and thought to give it a spot of publicity. However, although it shows in the archive for today it doesn?t seem to appear in the thread leaving me wondering if anyone saw it. It merely said:- ?The canal Vernon refers to is the Bridgwater and Taunton Canal, the planet spheres being duplicated both North and South from the roughly central point of Upper Maunsel Lock where the sun is located. There is an excellent canal-side cafe at Lower Maunsel Lock close by. I?ve known this canal from the early 1950?s and although only 14 miles long it has much to offer both scenically, biologically and industrial background history.? Dave Newbitt From: John Bennett via Tech1 Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2019 5:27 PM To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Cc: John Bennett Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets The Bridgwater and Taunton Canal. I must go and visit this. https://www.livefortheoutdoors.com/outdoorfeatures/2016/6/30/how-to-walk-the-solar-system Cheers John On 27/06/2019 08:52, vernon.dyer via Tech1 wrote: On the towpath of a canal in Somerset there is a similar idea. A concrete sphere about 2 metres diameter represents the sun, and as you walk along the path you find concrete plinths with metal balls embedded in them for the planets - about the size of a marble for Mercury, for example, then over about a quarter of a mile Venus, Earth and Mars, and we continued walking to find Jupiter, but had to give up after another mile or so as we were out of time. I believe the whole thing is over 6 miles long. http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- John Bennett 07768 527518 Virus-free. www.avast.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Thu Jun 27 13:00:04 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:00:04 +0200 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> Even if light becomes bent over great distances, the fact remains that there is still a hypothetical straight line which would meet the boundary of space, if there is one. I don?t believe space can have a boundary, because what would be on the other side of the boundary - more space. I find time going forward equally simple to absorb, because if time stopped, what would happen then - surely not ?nothing?! But time going backward into infinity requires greater understanding, or a descent into lunacy! I do have difficulty in comprehending descriptions of time varying with speed - my view is that what changes is the measurement of time, not time itself - now is now everywhere, even if it takes billions of light years for now to reach us from the far reaches. On a much smaller scale, of course, each individual is the only one capable of experiencing their own ?now? because by the time any external sensation impinges upon our brain, ?now? is already history - even if not exactly ancient history! Mike G > On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > > There's this - > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif > > Never give up, never surrender > > B > > > >> On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: >> O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On the Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, if you just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you started. In Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path taken by a ray of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but it's still the straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, if there is enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire Universe, then all rays of light will be bent round into complete circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back to where you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any more, because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of an 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no edge to the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light could ever leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire Universe is on the inside of a stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black Hole! (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? >> >> Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional voices by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series here, Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws of Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. >> >> But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was those two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. I'm sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a picture, showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of their gravity, how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in place, without demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to myself the counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes push stuff away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own mental diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even thicker than me (never actually met any, but there might be) that too could have done with some animated illustrations. >> >> luv, Rog. >> >> P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the end - it's impossible not to cheer! >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: >> >> >> My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the Universe contained in? >> >> If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? >> >> Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. >> >> Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? >> >> A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! >> Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. >> >> >> >> Pat >> >> (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) >> >> >> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >> >> >> >> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 >> Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 >> To: Vernon Dyer >> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets >> >> >> >> Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. >> >> >> >> To quote somebody or other >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.jasma at sky.com Thu Jun 27 13:46:45 2019 From: david.jasma at sky.com (Dave Buckley) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 19:46:45 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Planets Message-ID: <000601d52d18$abcc0fc0$03642f40$@sky.com> One of my Physics masters always defined a straight line as - the circumference of a circle with infinite radius! Dave Buckley --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From waresound at msn.com Thu Jun 27 13:52:06 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:52:06 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> , <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> Message-ID: You?re not supposed to understand these things, anymore than my dog is supposed to understand Ohm?s Law. Come back in a century or two and try again! ?? Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 27 Jun 2019, at 19:00, Mike Giles via Tech1 > wrote: Even if light becomes bent over great distances, the fact remains that there is still a hypothetical straight line which would meet the boundary of space, if there is one. I don?t believe space can have a boundary, because what would be on the other side of the boundary - more space. I find time going forward equally simple to absorb, because if time stopped, what would happen then - surely not ?nothing?! But time going backward into infinity requires greater understanding, or a descent into lunacy! I do have difficulty in comprehending descriptions of time varying with speed - my view is that what changes is the measurement of time, not time itself - now is now everywhere, even if it takes billions of light years for now to reach us from the far reaches. On a much smaller scale, of course, each individual is the only one capable of experiencing their own ?now? because by the time any external sensation impinges upon our brain, ?now? is already history - even if not exactly ancient history! Mike G On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > wrote: There's this - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif Never give up, never surrender B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Thu Jun 27 13:54:11 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:54:11 +0200 Subject: [Tech1] Planets In-Reply-To: <000601d52d18$abcc0fc0$03642f40$@sky.com> References: <000601d52d18$abcc0fc0$03642f40$@sky.com> Message-ID: I didn?t always agree with my Physics master either - especially as he said working for Aunty was a bad idea! Mike G > On 27 Jun 2019, at 20:46, Dave Buckley via Tech1 wrote: > > One of my Physics masters always defined a straight line as - the > circumference of a circle with infinite radius! > > Dave Buckley > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jun 27 15:20:35 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:20:35 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5d152512.1c69fb81.211e9.06e1@mx.google.com> Now ? that?s a line from ?Galaxy Quest? ? Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 27 June 2019 17:18 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Cc: Bernard Newnham Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets Never give up, never surrender B --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gary_critcher at yahoo.com Thu Jun 27 15:29:46 2019 From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:29:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <5d152512.1c69fb81.211e9.06e1@mx.google.com> References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> <5d152512.1c69fb81.211e9.06e1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <203801304.1651988.1561667386666@mail.yahoo.com> hi Bernie, I sent this message to the groups e-mail address the other day (maybe last Friday/Saturday) but it has never appeared, so am sending again. ? I have a number of used once DAT tapes and am now looking to get rid of them. Is there anyone would like them?? If so, let me know & I'll get them straight in the post. ? thanks indeed! All the best,?? Gary C On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 21:23:00 BST, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: #yiv7531042514 #yiv7531042514 -- filtered {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}#yiv7531042514 filtered {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv7531042514 p.yiv7531042514MsoNormal, #yiv7531042514 li.yiv7531042514MsoNormal, #yiv7531042514 div.yiv7531042514MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv7531042514 a:link, #yiv7531042514 span.yiv7531042514MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7531042514 a:visited, #yiv7531042514 span.yiv7531042514MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv7531042514 p.yiv7531042514ydp938ac70dyiv0824835072ydp9a6651a3yiv9660606750msonormal, #yiv7531042514 li.yiv7531042514ydp938ac70dyiv0824835072ydp9a6651a3yiv9660606750msonormal, #yiv7531042514 div.yiv7531042514ydp938ac70dyiv0824835072ydp9a6651a3yiv9660606750msonormal {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;}#yiv7531042514 .yiv7531042514MsoChpDefault {}#yiv7531042514 filtered {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv7531042514 div.yiv7531042514WordSection1 {}#yiv7531042514 Now ? that?s a line from ?Galaxy Quest? ? Pat ? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ? From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 27 June 2019 17:18 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Cc: Bernard Newnham Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets ? Never give up, never surrender B ? | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jun 27 15:31:47 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:31:47 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> , <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> Message-ID: <5d1527b3.1c69fb81.41762.065d@mx.google.com> Ah! I think I equate with your dog, Nick, as at a pre-board interview for the BBC, Esler managed to prove to me that I did not know Ohm?s Law, when I knew I did! ? when I was called to a real board, at the Langham, I was dismayed to see Esler on the panel. John-John was there from TV, and after a few questions, the ?daddy? chairman asked Esler if he wanted to question me further. His reply: ?I think Mr. Heigham and I know where we stand!? Crawled out with tail between legs and said g?bye to the BBC. But ? six weeks later, a posting to TV ? Wow! A super and very enjoyable career ensued. Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Nick Ware via Tech1 Sent: 27 June 2019 19:52 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets You?re not supposed to understand these things, anymore than my dog is supposed to understand Ohm?s Law.? Come back in a century or two and try again! ?? Cheers, Nick. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Thu Jun 27 15:32:43 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:32:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <203801304.1651988.1561667386666@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> <5d152512.1c69fb81.211e9.06e1@mx.google.com> <203801304.1651988.1561667386666@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5d1527eb.1c69fb81.ec3b0.043b@mx.google.com> I got it Gary. Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Gary Critcher via Tech1 Sent: 27 June 2019 21:30 To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets hi Bernie, I sent this message to the groups e-mail address the other day (maybe last Friday/Saturday) but it has never appeared, so am sending again. ? I have a number of used once DAT tapes and am now looking to get rid of them. Is there anyone would like them?? If so, let me know & I'll get them straight in the post. ? thanks indeed! All the best, ?? Gary C On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 21:23:00 BST, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: Now ? that?s a line from ?Galaxy Quest? ? Pat ? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ? From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 27 June 2019 17:18 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Cc: Bernard Newnham Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets ? Never give up, never surrender B ? Virus-free. www.avast.com -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rogerbunce at btinternet.com Thu Jun 27 15:48:35 2019 From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:48:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <746308968.1657872.1561668515249@mail.yahoo.com> Well, I've seen it, but I'm not sure what I've seen. And I've read the words, but I'm not sure what they mean. I think I can see what a 'gore' is, but how and why? I think I still need a diagram! luv, Rog. On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 17:18:41 BST, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: There's this - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif Never give up, never surrender B On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: ????O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On the Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, if you just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you started. In Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path taken by a ray of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but it's still the straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, if there is enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire Universe, then all rays of light will be bent round into complete circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back to where you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any more, because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of an 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no edge to the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light could ever leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire Universe is on the inside of a stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black Hole! (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? ? ? Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional voices by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series here, Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws of Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. ? ? But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was those two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. I'm sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a picture, showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of their gravity, how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in place, without demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to myself the counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes push stuff away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own mental diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even thicker than me (never actually met any, but there might be) that too could have done with some animated illustrations. luv, Rog. P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the end - it's impossible not to cheer!? ? ?? ? ?? On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the Universe contained in? If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. ? Pat (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) ? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ? From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 To: Vernon Dyer Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets ? Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. ? To quote somebody or other ? ? | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From keithwicksuk at gmail.com Thu Jun 27 16:23:01 2019 From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:23:01 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <203801304.1651988.1561667386666@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> <5d152512.1c69fb81.211e9.06e1@mx.google.com> <203801304.1651988.1561667386666@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I remember seeing that message, but I think you have the same problem as me. If I send a message, I never see it on the list. KW On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 21:30, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote: > hi Bernie, I sent this message to the groups e-mail address the other day > (maybe last Friday/Saturday) but it has never appeared, so am sending again. > > > I have a number of used once DAT tapes and am now looking to get rid of > them. Is there anyone would like them? If so, let me know & I'll get them > straight in the post. > > thanks indeed! > All the best, > Gary C > > On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 21:23:00 BST, patheigham via Tech1 < > tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > > > Now ? that?s a line from ?Galaxy Quest? ? > > Pat > > > > Sent from Mail for > Windows 10 > > > > *From: *Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > *Sent: *27 June 2019 17:18 > *To: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Cc: *Bernard Newnham > *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] The Planets > > > > > Never give up, never surrender > > B > > > > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_-3417676912893747711_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geoffletch at gmail.com Fri Jun 28 04:26:09 2019 From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:26:09 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Planets In-Reply-To: <000601d52d18$abcc0fc0$03642f40$@sky.com> References: <000601d52d18$abcc0fc0$03642f40$@sky.com> Message-ID: Technically correct Dave. Geoff F (Unless Roger or Nick know differently.) On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 19:47, Dave Buckley via Tech1 wrote: > One of my Physics masters always defined a straight line as - the > circumference of a circle with infinite radius! > > Dave Buckley > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rogerbunce at btinternet.com Fri Jun 28 04:31:11 2019 From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:31:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> Message-ID: <227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com> Gravity doesn't just bend rays of light. It bends the whole fabric of space and time. If you were to fill inter-galactic space with those 'hypothetical straight lines', to create a gigantic 3-dimensional graph-paper, gravity would bend it. It would still look straight to you, of course, because your entire frame of reference would have bent with it. Those 'hypothetical straight lines' just don't exist, except in the human mind. They can become reality over short distances, but not across the vastness of space. In a sense the Universe does have a limit, because of the way it is expanding. The galaxies furthest from us are receding much faster than those closer to us. There appears to be a direct proportion between distance and rate of recession. This means that after a certain distance, the Universe will be receding from us faster than light. At this distance the Universe becomes inherently unknowable, since light from it will never reach us. And, since Einstein believed than nothing can travel faster than light, there shouldn't be anything out there. Time dilation was known about before Relativity explained it. Radio-active particles in Cosmic Rays, were observed to decay much more slowly than similar particles in the laboratory, because of the very high speeds at which they were travelling. In a sense you're right, it is the way we measure time which changes, but the way we measure time IS time. There is no absolute concept of time existing separately from the way we measure it - just as there is no absolute concept of straightness. If you're in a space ship full of clocks, travelling at a significant fraction of the speed of light, all those clock will run slow. It doesn't matter whether they're clockwork clocks, pendulum clocks, electronic clocks, atomic clocks, hour-glasses, notched candles, or your own heartbeat, they'll all run slow by exactly the same amount. You won't notice this, because your internal body clock will be running at the same speed. But people on Earth, watching on a TV monitor, will see you running slow. Now my brain is starting to overheat. luv, Rog. On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 19:00:39 BST, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: Even if light becomes bent over great distances, the fact remains that there is still a hypothetical straight line which would meet the boundary of space, if there is one. I don?t believe space can have a boundary, because what would be on the other side of the boundary - more space.? I find time going forward equally simple to absorb, because if time stopped, what would happen then - surely not ?nothing?! But time going backward into infinity requires greater understanding, or a descent into lunacy! I do have difficulty in comprehending descriptions of time varying with speed - my view is that what changes is the measurement of time, not time itself - now is now everywhere, even if it takes billions of light years for now to reach us from the far reaches.? On a much smaller scale, of course, each individual is the only one capable of experiencing their own ?now? because by the time any external sensation impinges upon our brain, ?now? is already history - even if not exactly ancient history! Mike G On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: There's this - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif Never give up, never surrender B On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: ????O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On the Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, if you just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you started. In Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path taken by a ray of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but it's still the straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, if there is enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire Universe, then all rays of light will be bent round into complete circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back to where you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any more, because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of an 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no edge to the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light could ever leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire Universe is on the inside of a stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black Hole! (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? ? ? Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional voices by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series here, Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws of Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. ? ? But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was those two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. I'm sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a picture, showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of their gravity, how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in place, without demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to myself the counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes push stuff away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own mental diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even thicker than me (never actually met any, but there might be) that too could have done with some animated illustrations. luv, Rog. P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the end - it's impossible not to cheer!? ? ?? ? ?? On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the Universe contained in? If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. ? Pat (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) ? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ? From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 To: Vernon Dyer Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets ? Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. ? To quote somebody or other ? ? | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Fri Jun 28 05:39:38 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:39:38 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> <227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: And frame of reference is all, when it comes to it.? There's every possibility that we won't ever understand the big things about the universe, no matter how hard we try, because we just don't have the right frame of reference. It's all too big, all too far. B On 28/06/2019 10:31, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > Gravity doesn't just bend rays of light. It bends the whole fabric of > space and time. If you were to fill inter-galactic space with those > 'hypothetical straight lines', to create a gigantic 3-dimensional > graph-paper, gravity would bend it. It would still look straight to > you, of course, because your entire frame of reference would have bent > with it. Those 'hypothetical straight lines' just don't exist, except > in the human mind. They can become reality over short distances, but > not across the vastness of space. > > In a sense the Universe does have a limit, because of the way it is > expanding. The galaxies furthest from us are receding much faster than > those closer to us. There appears to be a direct proportion between > distance and rate of recession. This means that after a certain > distance, the Universe will be receding from us faster than light. At > this distance the Universe becomes inherently unknowable, since light > from it will never reach us. And, since Einstein believed than nothing > can travel faster than light, there shouldn't be anything out there. > > Time dilation was known about before Relativity explained it. > Radio-active particles in Cosmic Rays, were observed to decay much > more slowly than similar particles in the laboratory, because of the > very high speeds at which they were travelling. In a sense you're > right, it is the way we measure time which changes, but the way we > measure time IS time. There is no absolute concept of time existing > separately from the way we measure it - just as there is no absolute > concept of straightness. If you're in a space ship full of clocks, > travelling at a significant fraction of the speed of light, all those > clock will run slow. It doesn't matter whether they're clockwork > clocks, pendulum clocks, electronic clocks, atomic clocks, > hour-glasses, notched candles, or your own heartbeat, they'll all run > slow by exactly the same amount. You won't notice this, because your > internal body clock will be running at the same speed. But people on > Earth, watching on a TV monitor, will see you running slow. > > Now my brain is starting to overheat. > > luv, Rog. > > > On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 19:00:39 BST, Mike Giles via Tech1 > wrote: > > > Even if light becomes bent over great distances, the fact remains that > there is still a hypothetical straight line which would meet the > boundary of space, if there is one. I don?t believe space can have a > boundary, because what would be on the other side of the boundary - > more space. > > I find time going forward equally simple to absorb, because if time > stopped, what would happen then - surely not ?nothing?! But time going > backward into infinity requires greater understanding, or a descent > into lunacy! I do have difficulty in comprehending descriptions of > time varying with speed - my view is that what changes is the > measurement of time, not time itself - now is now everywhere, even if > it takes billions of light years for now to reach us from the far > reaches. > > On a much smaller scale, of course, each individual is the only one > capable of experiencing their own ?now? because by the time any > external sensation impinges upon our brain, ?now? is already history - > even if not exactly ancient history! > > Mike G > > On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > > wrote: > > There's this - > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif > > Never give up, never surrender > > B > > > > On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > ????O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking > about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the > shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On > the Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, > if you just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you > started. In Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path > taken by a ray of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but > it's still the straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, > if there is enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire > Universe, then all rays of light will be bent round into complete > circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep > going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back to where > you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any more, > because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then > you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of > an 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no > edge to the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light > could ever leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire > Universe is on the inside of a > stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black Hole! > (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe > only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light > into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? > > ? ? Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! > Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey > animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional > voices by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series > here, Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws > of Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. > > ? ? But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was > those two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. > I'm sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he > managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a > picture, showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of > their gravity, how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in > place, without demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to > myself the counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes > push stuff away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own > mental diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even > thicker than me (never actually met any, but there might be) that too > could have done with some animated illustrations. > > luv, Rog. > > P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise > that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when > the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the > end - it's impossible not to cheer! > > > > > > On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 > wrote: > > > My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the > Universe contained in? > > If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like > the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? > > Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. > > Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean > endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually > manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? > > A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe > Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, > earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! > Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the > corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. > > Pat > > (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the > cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another > planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the > have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a > plywood stage set!) > > Sent from Mail for > Windows 10 > > *From: *Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > *Sent: *27 June 2019 09:05 > *To: *Vernon Dyer > *Cc: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] The Planets > > Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, > mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down > the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. > > To quote somebody or other > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Fri Jun 28 05:39:49 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:39:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> <227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9bb047cd-b31d-11fa-8efe-e896f0eac37c@gmail.com> And frame of reference is all, when it comes to it.? There's every possibility that we won't ever understand the big things about the universe, no matter how hard we try, because we just don't have the right frame of reference. It's all too big, all too far. B On 28/06/2019 10:31, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > Gravity doesn't just bend rays of light. It bends the whole fabric of > space and time. If you were to fill inter-galactic space with those > 'hypothetical straight lines', to create a gigantic 3-dimensional > graph-paper, gravity would bend it. It would still look straight to > you, of course, because your entire frame of reference would have bent > with it. Those 'hypothetical straight lines' just don't exist, except > in the human mind. They can become reality over short distances, but > not across the vastness of space. > > In a sense the Universe does have a limit, because of the way it is > expanding. The galaxies furthest from us are receding much faster than > those closer to us. There appears to be a direct proportion between > distance and rate of recession. This means that after a certain > distance, the Universe will be receding from us faster than light. At > this distance the Universe becomes inherently unknowable, since light > from it will never reach us. And, since Einstein believed than nothing > can travel faster than light, there shouldn't be anything out there. > > Time dilation was known about before Relativity explained it. > Radio-active particles in Cosmic Rays, were observed to decay much > more slowly than similar particles in the laboratory, because of the > very high speeds at which they were travelling. In a sense you're > right, it is the way we measure time which changes, but the way we > measure time IS time. There is no absolute concept of time existing > separately from the way we measure it - just as there is no absolute > concept of straightness. If you're in a space ship full of clocks, > travelling at a significant fraction of the speed of light, all those > clock will run slow. It doesn't matter whether they're clockwork > clocks, pendulum clocks, electronic clocks, atomic clocks, > hour-glasses, notched candles, or your own heartbeat, they'll all run > slow by exactly the same amount. You won't notice this, because your > internal body clock will be running at the same speed. But people on > Earth, watching on a TV monitor, will see you running slow. > > Now my brain is starting to overheat. > > luv, Rog. > > > On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 19:00:39 BST, Mike Giles via Tech1 > wrote: > > > Even if light becomes bent over great distances, the fact remains that > there is still a hypothetical straight line which would meet the > boundary of space, if there is one. I don?t believe space can have a > boundary, because what would be on the other side of the boundary - > more space. > > I find time going forward equally simple to absorb, because if time > stopped, what would happen then - surely not ?nothing?! But time going > backward into infinity requires greater understanding, or a descent > into lunacy! I do have difficulty in comprehending descriptions of > time varying with speed - my view is that what changes is the > measurement of time, not time itself - now is now everywhere, even if > it takes billions of light years for now to reach us from the far > reaches. > > On a much smaller scale, of course, each individual is the only one > capable of experiencing their own ?now? because by the time any > external sensation impinges upon our brain, ?now? is already history - > even if not exactly ancient history! > > Mike G > > On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > > wrote: > > There's this - > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif > > Never give up, never surrender > > B > > > > On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > ????O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking > about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the > shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On > the Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, > if you just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you > started. In Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path > taken by a ray of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but > it's still the straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, > if there is enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire > Universe, then all rays of light will be bent round into complete > circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep > going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back to where > you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any more, > because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then > you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of > an 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no > edge to the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light > could ever leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire > Universe is on the inside of a > stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black Hole! > (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe > only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light > into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? > > ? ? Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! > Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey > animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional > voices by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series > here, Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws > of Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. > > ? ? But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was > those two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. > I'm sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he > managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a > picture, showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of > their gravity, how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in > place, without demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to > myself the counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes > push stuff away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own > mental diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even > thicker than me (never actually met any, but there might be) that too > could have done with some animated illustrations. > > luv, Rog. > > P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise > that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when > the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the > end - it's impossible not to cheer! > > > > > > On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 > wrote: > > > My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the > Universe contained in? > > If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like > the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? > > Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. > > Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean > endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually > manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? > > A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe > Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, > earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! > Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the > corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. > > Pat > > (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the > cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another > planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the > have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a > plywood stage set!) > > Sent from Mail for > Windows 10 > > *From: *Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > *Sent: *27 June 2019 09:05 > *To: *Vernon Dyer > *Cc: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] The Planets > > Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, > mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down > the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. > > To quote somebody or other > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mibridge at mac.com Fri Jun 28 11:06:07 2019 From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 18:06:07 +0200 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> <227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A great circle is surely only a straight line in two dimensions. Mike G > On 28 Jun 2019, at 11:31, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > > Gravity doesn't just bend rays of light. It bends the whole fabric of space and time. If you were to fill inter-galactic space with those 'hypothetical straight lines', to create a gigantic 3-dimensional graph-paper, gravity would bend it. It would still look straight to you, of course, because your entire frame of reference would have bent with it. Those 'hypothetical straight lines' just don't exist, except in the human mind. They can become reality over short distances, but not across the vastness of space. > > In a sense the Universe does have a limit, because of the way it is expanding. The galaxies furthest from us are receding much faster than those closer to us. There appears to be a direct proportion between distance and rate of recession. This means that after a certain distance, the Universe will be receding from us faster than light. At this distance the Universe becomes inherently unknowable, since light from it will never reach us. And, since Einstein believed than nothing can travel faster than light, there shouldn't be anything out there. > > Time dilation was known about before Relativity explained it. Radio-active particles in Cosmic Rays, were observed to decay much more slowly than similar particles in the laboratory, because of the very high speeds at which they were travelling. In a sense you're right, it is the way we measure time which changes, but the way we measure time IS time. There is no absolute concept of time existing separately from the way we measure it - just as there is no absolute concept of straightness. If you're in a space ship full of clocks, travelling at a significant fraction of the speed of light, all those clock will run slow. It doesn't matter whether they're clockwork clocks, pendulum clocks, electronic clocks, atomic clocks, hour-glasses, notched candles, or your own heartbeat, they'll all run slow by exactly the same amount. You won't notice this, because your internal body clock will be running at the same speed. But people on Earth, watching on a TV monitor, will see you running slow. > > Now my brain is starting to overheat. > > luv, Rog. > > > On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 19:00:39 BST, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: > > > Even if light becomes bent over great distances, the fact remains that there is still a hypothetical straight line which would meet the boundary of space, if there is one. I don?t believe space can have a boundary, because what would be on the other side of the boundary - more space. > > I find time going forward equally simple to absorb, because if time stopped, what would happen then - surely not ?nothing?! But time going backward into infinity requires greater understanding, or a descent into lunacy! I do have difficulty in comprehending descriptions of time varying with speed - my view is that what changes is the measurement of time, not time itself - now is now everywhere, even if it takes billions of light years for now to reach us from the far reaches. > > On a much smaller scale, of course, each individual is the only one capable of experiencing their own ?now? because by the time any external sensation impinges upon our brain, ?now? is already history - even if not exactly ancient history! > > Mike G > > On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: > > > There's this - > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif > > Never give up, never surrender > > B > > > >> On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > > O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On the Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, if you just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you started. In Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path taken by a ray of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but it's still the straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, if there is enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire Universe, then all rays of light will be bent round into complete circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back to where you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any more, because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of an 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no edge to the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light could ever leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire Universe is on the inside of a stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black Hole! (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? > > Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional voices by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series here, Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws of Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. > > But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was those two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. I'm sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a picture, showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of their gravity, how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in place, without demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to myself the counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes push stuff away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own mental diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even thicker than me (never actually met any, but there might be) that too could have done with some animated illustrations. > > luv, Rog. > > P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the end - it's impossible not to cheer! > > > > > > On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: > > > My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the Universe contained in? > > If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? > > Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. > > Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? > > A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! > Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. > > > > Pat > > (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 > To: Vernon Dyer > Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets > > > > Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. > > > > To quote somebody or other > > > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rogerbunce at btinternet.com Fri Jun 28 14:26:12 2019 From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 19:26:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> <227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <321048728.2360972.1561749972673@mail.yahoo.com> But do you count the surface of a sphere as 2-dimensional or 3-dimensional? If you flatten out the Earth's surface into a 2-dimensional map (e.g. Mercator projection), some Great Circles will appear as straight lines (the Equator and lines of Longitude), others will look like sine waves, but are no less straight.?A Great Circle is the shortest distance between two points and, therefore, a Straight Line, within a curved frame of reference i.e. the Earth's surface. Things to remember about Space - 1: No one can hear you scream.2: It's the final frontier.3: It's big - I mean - really big.4: Space-Time is a four-dimensional Inertial Reference Frame, within which a ray of light can be defined as a Straight Line, although the entire Reference Frame may be curved by Gravity. It may even be curved enough for that Straight Line to become a circle - remembering that a Straight Line is just a circle of infinite diameter. In this case the diameter may not be infinite, but if it is the size of the entire damn Universe, who's to know the difference? luv, Rog. On Friday, 28 June 2019, 17:06:14 BST, Mike Giles wrote: A great circle is surely only a straight line in two dimensions.? Mike G On 28 Jun 2019, at 11:31, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: Gravity doesn't just bend rays of light. It bends the whole fabric of space and time. If you were to fill inter-galactic space with those 'hypothetical straight lines', to create a gigantic 3-dimensional graph-paper, gravity would bend it. It would still look straight to you, of course, because your entire frame of reference would have bent with it. Those 'hypothetical straight lines' just don't exist, except in the human mind. They can become reality over short distances, but not across the vastness of space. In a sense the Universe does have a limit, because of the way it is expanding. The galaxies furthest from us are receding much faster than those closer to us. There appears to be a direct proportion between distance and rate of recession. This means that after a certain distance, the Universe will be receding from us faster than light. At this distance the Universe becomes inherently unknowable, since light from it will never reach us. And, since Einstein believed than nothing can travel faster than light, there shouldn't be anything out there. Time dilation was known about before Relativity explained it. Radio-active particles in Cosmic Rays, were observed to decay much more slowly than similar particles in the laboratory, because of the very high speeds at which they were travelling. In a sense you're right, it is the way we measure time which changes, but the way we measure time IS time. There is no absolute concept of time existing separately from the way we measure it - just as there is no absolute concept of straightness. If you're in a space ship full of clocks, travelling at a significant fraction of the speed of light, all those clock will run slow. It doesn't matter whether they're clockwork clocks, pendulum clocks, electronic clocks, atomic clocks, hour-glasses, notched candles, or your own heartbeat, they'll all run slow by exactly the same amount. You won't notice this, because your internal body clock will be running at the same speed. But people on Earth, watching on a TV monitor, will see you running slow. Now my brain is starting to overheat. luv, Rog. On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 19:00:39 BST, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: Even if light becomes bent over great distances, the fact remains that there is still a hypothetical straight line which would meet the boundary of space, if there is one. I don?t believe space can have a boundary, because what would be on the other side of the boundary - more space.? I find time going forward equally simple to absorb, because if time stopped, what would happen then - surely not ?nothing?! But time going backward into infinity requires greater understanding, or a descent into lunacy! I do have difficulty in comprehending descriptions of time varying with speed - my view is that what changes is the measurement of time, not time itself - now is now everywhere, even if it takes billions of light years for now to reach us from the far reaches.? On a much smaller scale, of course, each individual is the only one capable of experiencing their own ?now? because by the time any external sensation impinges upon our brain, ?now? is already history - even if not exactly ancient history! Mike G On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: There's this - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif Never give up, never surrender B On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: ????O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On the Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, if you just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you started. In Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path taken by a ray of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but it's still the straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, if there is enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire Universe, then all rays of light will be bent round into complete circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back to where you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any more, because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of an 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no edge to the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light could ever leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire Universe is on the inside of a stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black Hole! (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? ? ? Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional voices by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series here, Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws of Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. ? ? But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was those two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. I'm sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a picture, showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of their gravity, how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in place, without demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to myself the counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes push stuff away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own mental diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even thicker than me (never actually met any, but there might be) that too could have done with some animated illustrations. luv, Rog. P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the end - it's impossible not to cheer!? ? ?? ? ?? On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the Universe contained in? If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. ? Pat (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) ? Sent from Mail for Windows 10 ? From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 To: Vernon Dyer Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets ? Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. ? To quote somebody or other ? ? | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com Fri Jun 28 22:07:30 2019 From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 04:07:30 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <321048728.2360972.1561749972673@mail.yahoo.com> References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> <227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com> <321048728.2360972.1561749972673@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87FCC0F4-DC6D-4249-9A64-002E17D887B8@vincent68.plus.com> Time and relative dimension in space? John V On 28 Jun 2019, at 20:26, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > But do you count the surface of a sphere as 2-dimensional or 3-dimensional? > > If you flatten out the Earth's surface into a 2-dimensional map (e.g. Mercator projection), some Great Circles will appear as straight lines (the Equator and lines of Longitude), others will look like sine waves, but are no less straight. > A Great Circle is the shortest distance between two points and, therefore, a Straight Line, within a curved frame of reference i.e. the Earth's surface. > > Things to remember about Space - > > 1: No one can hear you scream. > 2: It's the final frontier. > 3: It's big - I mean - really big. > 4: Space-Time is a four-dimensional Inertial Reference Frame, within which a ray of light can be defined as a Straight Line, although the entire Reference Frame may be curved by Gravity. It may even be curved enough for that Straight Line to become a circle - remembering that a Straight Line is just a circle of infinite diameter. In this case the diameter may not be infinite, but if it is the size of the entire damn Universe, who's to know the difference? > > luv, Rog. > > > On Friday, 28 June 2019, 17:06:14 BST, Mike Giles wrote: > > > A great circle is surely only a straight line in two dimensions. > > Mike G > > On 28 Jun 2019, at 11:31, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > >> Gravity doesn't just bend rays of light. It bends the whole fabric of space and time. If you were to fill inter-galactic space with those 'hypothetical straight lines', to create a gigantic 3-dimensional graph-paper, gravity would bend it. It would still look straight to you, of course, because your entire frame of reference would have bent with it. Those 'hypothetical straight lines' just don't exist, except in the human mind. They can become reality over short distances, but not across the vastness of space. >> >> In a sense the Universe does have a limit, because of the way it is expanding. The galaxies furthest from us are receding much faster than those closer to us. There appears to be a direct proportion between distance and rate of recession. This means that after a certain distance, the Universe will be receding from us faster than light. At this distance the Universe becomes inherently unknowable, since light from it will never reach us. And, since Einstein believed than nothing can travel faster than light, there shouldn't be anything out there. >> >> Time dilation was known about before Relativity explained it. Radio-active particles in Cosmic Rays, were observed to decay much more slowly than similar particles in the laboratory, because of the very high speeds at which they were travelling. In a sense you're right, it is the way we measure time which changes, but the way we measure time IS time. There is no absolute concept of time existing separately from the way we measure it - just as there is no absolute concept of straightness. If you're in a space ship full of clocks, travelling at a significant fraction of the speed of light, all those clock will run slow. It doesn't matter whether they're clockwork clocks, pendulum clocks, electronic clocks, atomic clocks, hour-glasses, notched candles, or your own heartbeat, they'll all run slow by exactly the same amount. You won't notice this, because your internal body clock will be running at the same speed. But people on Earth, watching on a TV monitor, will see you running slow. >> >> Now my brain is starting to overheat. >> >> luv, Rog. >> >> >> On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 19:00:39 BST, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >> >> >> Even if light becomes bent over great distances, the fact remains that there is still a hypothetical straight line which would meet the boundary of space, if there is one. I don?t believe space can have a boundary, because what would be on the other side of the boundary - more space. >> >> I find time going forward equally simple to absorb, because if time stopped, what would happen then - surely not ?nothing?! But time going backward into infinity requires greater understanding, or a descent into lunacy! I do have difficulty in comprehending descriptions of time varying with speed - my view is that what changes is the measurement of time, not time itself - now is now everywhere, even if it takes billions of light years for now to reach us from the far reaches. >> >> On a much smaller scale, of course, each individual is the only one capable of experiencing their own ?now? because by the time any external sensation impinges upon our brain, ?now? is already history - even if not exactly ancient history! >> >> Mike G >> >> On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >> >>> >> >> There's this - >> >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif >> >> Never give up, never surrender >> >> B >> >> >> >> On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: >> >> O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On the Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, if you just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you started. In Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path taken by a ray of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but it's still the straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, if there is enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire Universe, then all rays of light will be bent round into complete circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back to where you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any more, because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of an 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no edge to the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light could ever leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire Universe is on the inside of a stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black Hole! (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? >> >> Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional voices by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series here, Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws of Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. >> >> But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was those two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. I'm sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a picture, showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of their gravity, how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in place, without demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to myself the counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes push stuff away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own mental diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even thicker than me (never actually met any, but there might be) that too could have done with some animated illustrations. >> >> luv, Rog. >> >> P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the end - it's impossible not to cheer! >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: >> >> >> My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the Universe contained in? >> >> If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? >> >> Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. >> >> Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? >> >> A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! >> Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. >> >> >> Pat >> >> (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) >> >> >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >> >> >> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 >> Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 >> To: Vernon Dyer >> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets >> >> >> Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. >> >> >> To quote somebody or other >> >> >> >> >> Virus-free. www.avast.com >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Sat Jun 29 02:12:31 2019 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 08:12:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <87FCC0F4-DC6D-4249-9A64-002E17D887B8@vincent68.plus.com> References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> <227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com> <321048728.2360972.1561749972673@mail.yahoo.com> <87FCC0F4-DC6D-4249-9A64-002E17D887B8@vincent68.plus.com> Message-ID: <9926223E-88A6-4507-953B-B5DF5BB6ECB7@icloud.com> Sounds catchy,. Who would use that description? ? Graeme Wall > On 29 Jun 2019, at 04:07, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote: > > Time and relative dimension in space? > > John V > > > On 28 Jun 2019, at 20:26, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > >> But do you count the surface of a sphere as 2-dimensional or 3-dimensional? >> >> If you flatten out the Earth's surface into a 2-dimensional map (e.g. Mercator projection), some Great Circles will appear as straight lines (the Equator and lines of Longitude), others will look like sine waves, but are no less straight. >> A Great Circle is the shortest distance between two points and, therefore, a Straight Line, within a curved frame of reference i.e. the Earth's surface. >> >> Things to remember about Space - >> >> 1: No one can hear you scream. >> 2: It's the final frontier. >> 3: It's big - I mean - really big. >> 4: Space-Time is a four-dimensional Inertial Reference Frame, within which a ray of light can be defined as a Straight Line, although the entire Reference Frame may be curved by Gravity. It may even be curved enough for that Straight Line to become a circle - remembering that a Straight Line is just a circle of infinite diameter. In this case the diameter may not be infinite, but if it is the size of the entire damn Universe, who's to know the difference? >> >> luv, Rog. >> >> >> On Friday, 28 June 2019, 17:06:14 BST, Mike Giles wrote: >> >> >> A great circle is surely only a straight line in two dimensions. >> >> Mike G >> >> On 28 Jun 2019, at 11:31, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: >> >>> Gravity doesn't just bend rays of light. It bends the whole fabric of space and time. If you were to fill inter-galactic space with those 'hypothetical straight lines', to create a gigantic 3-dimensional graph-paper, gravity would bend it. It would still look straight to you, of course, because your entire frame of reference would have bent with it. Those 'hypothetical straight lines' just don't exist, except in the human mind. They can become reality over short distances, but not across the vastness of space. >>> >>> In a sense the Universe does have a limit, because of the way it is expanding. The galaxies furthest from us are receding much faster than those closer to us. There appears to be a direct proportion between distance and rate of recession. This means that after a certain distance, the Universe will be receding from us faster than light. At this distance the Universe becomes inherently unknowable, since light from it will never reach us. And, since Einstein believed than nothing can travel faster than light, there shouldn't be anything out there. >>> >>> Time dilation was known about before Relativity explained it. Radio-active particles in Cosmic Rays, were observed to decay much more slowly than similar particles in the laboratory, because of the very high speeds at which they were travelling. In a sense you're right, it is the way we measure time which changes, but the way we measure time IS time. There is no absolute concept of time existing separately from the way we measure it - just as there is no absolute concept of straightness. If you're in a space ship full of clocks, travelling at a significant fraction of the speed of light, all those clock will run slow. It doesn't matter whether they're clockwork clocks, pendulum clocks, electronic clocks, atomic clocks, hour-glasses, notched candles, or your own heartbeat, they'll all run slow by exactly the same amount. You won't notice this, because your internal body clock will be running at the same speed. But people on Earth, watching on a TV monitor, will see you running slow. >>> >>> Now my brain is starting to overheat. >>> >>> luv, Rog. >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 19:00:39 BST, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> >>> Even if light becomes bent over great distances, the fact remains that there is still a hypothetical straight line which would meet the boundary of space, if there is one. I don?t believe space can have a boundary, because what would be on the other side of the boundary - more space. >>> >>> I find time going forward equally simple to absorb, because if time stopped, what would happen then - surely not ?nothing?! But time going backward into infinity requires greater understanding, or a descent into lunacy! I do have difficulty in comprehending descriptions of time varying with speed - my view is that what changes is the measurement of time, not time itself - now is now everywhere, even if it takes billions of light years for now to reach us from the far reaches. >>> >>> On a much smaller scale, of course, each individual is the only one capable of experiencing their own ?now? because by the time any external sensation impinges upon our brain, ?now? is already history - even if not exactly ancient history! >>> >>> Mike G >>> >>> On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> There's this - >>> >>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif >>> >>> Never give up, never surrender >>> >>> B >>> >>> >>> >>> On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: >>> O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On the Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, if you just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you started. In Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path taken by a ray of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but it's still the straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, if there is enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire Universe, then all rays of light will be bent round into complete circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back to where you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any more, because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of an 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no edge to the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light could ever leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire Universe is on the inside of a stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black Hole! (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? >>> >>> Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional voices by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series here, Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws of Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. >>> >>> But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was those two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. I'm sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a picture, showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of their gravity, how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in place, without demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to myself the counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes push stuff away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own mental diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even thicker than me (never actually met any, but there might be) that too could have done with some animated illustrations. >>> >>> luv, Rog. >>> >>> P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the end - it's impossible not to cheer! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> >>> My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the Universe contained in? >>> >>> If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? >>> >>> Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. >>> >>> Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? >>> >>> A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! >>> Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. >>> >>> >>> Pat >>> >>> (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) >>> >>> >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>> >>> >>> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 >>> Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 >>> To: Vernon Dyer >>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets >>> >>> >>> Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. >>> >>> >>> To quote somebody or other >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From mail at terrymeadowcroft.co.uk Sat Jun 29 03:08:42 2019 From: mail at terrymeadowcroft.co.uk (terrymeadowcroft) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 09:08:42 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com><462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com><5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com><227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com><321048728.2360972.1561749972673@mail.yahoo.com><87FCC0F4-DC6D-4249-9A64-002E17D887B8@vincent68.plus.com> <9926223E-88A6-4507-953B-B5DF5BB6ECB7@icloud.com> Message-ID: Hi Guys (of either gender - before you get cross), At the tender age of 74, I have accepted that my mind is not big enough to even bother considering where infinity ends, or what I would find there! Studying space has allowed me to accept how infinitely tiny we are, as individuals or as a race, and how simple is the reality that we all don't matter and when we die we are dust! Simples! Terry We are not threatening to destroy the planet. We only destroy our owsn negligible race. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme Wall via Tech1" To: "John Vincent" Cc: Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2019 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets > Sounds catchy,. Who would use that description? > ? > Graeme Wall > > >> On 29 Jun 2019, at 04:07, John Vincent via Tech1 >> wrote: >> >> Time and relative dimension in space? >> >> John V >> >> >> On 28 Jun 2019, at 20:26, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: >> >>> But do you count the surface of a sphere as 2-dimensional or >>> 3-dimensional? >>> >>> If you flatten out the Earth's surface into a 2-dimensional map (e.g. >>> Mercator projection), some Great Circles will appear as straight lines >>> (the Equator and lines of Longitude), others will look like sine waves, >>> but are no less straight. >>> A Great Circle is the shortest distance between two points and, >>> therefore, a Straight Line, within a curved frame of reference i.e. the >>> Earth's surface. >>> >>> Things to remember about Space - >>> >>> 1: No one can hear you scream. >>> 2: It's the final frontier. >>> 3: It's big - I mean - really big. >>> 4: Space-Time is a four-dimensional Inertial Reference Frame, within >>> which a ray of light can be defined as a Straight Line, although the >>> entire Reference Frame may be curved by Gravity. It may even be curved >>> enough for that Straight Line to become a circle - remembering that a >>> Straight Line is just a circle of infinite diameter. In this case the >>> diameter may not be infinite, but if it is the size of the entire damn >>> Universe, who's to know the difference? >>> >>> luv, Rog. >>> >>> >>> On Friday, 28 June 2019, 17:06:14 BST, Mike Giles >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> A great circle is surely only a straight line in two dimensions. >>> >>> Mike G >>> >>> On 28 Jun 2019, at 11:31, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Gravity doesn't just bend rays of light. It bends the whole fabric of >>>> space and time. If you were to fill inter-galactic space with those >>>> 'hypothetical straight lines', to create a gigantic 3-dimensional >>>> graph-paper, gravity would bend it. It would still look straight to >>>> you, of course, because your entire frame of reference would have bent >>>> with it. Those 'hypothetical straight lines' just don't exist, except >>>> in the human mind. They can become reality over short distances, but >>>> not across the vastness of space. >>>> >>>> In a sense the Universe does have a limit, because of the way it is >>>> expanding. The galaxies furthest from us are receding much faster than >>>> those closer to us. There appears to be a direct proportion between >>>> distance and rate of recession. This means that after a certain >>>> distance, the Universe will be receding from us faster than light. At >>>> this distance the Universe becomes inherently unknowable, since light >>>> from it will never reach us. And, since Einstein believed than nothing >>>> can travel faster than light, there shouldn't be anything out there. >>>> >>>> Time dilation was known about before Relativity explained it. >>>> Radio-active particles in Cosmic Rays, were observed to decay much more >>>> slowly than similar particles in the laboratory, because of the very >>>> high speeds at which they were travelling. In a sense you're right, it >>>> is the way we measure time which changes, but the way we measure time >>>> IS time. There is no absolute concept of time existing separately from >>>> the way we measure it - just as there is no absolute concept of >>>> straightness. If you're in a space ship full of clocks, travelling at a >>>> significant fraction of the speed of light, all those clock will run >>>> slow. It doesn't matter whether they're clockwork clocks, pendulum >>>> clocks, electronic clocks, atomic clocks, hour-glasses, notched >>>> candles, or your own heartbeat, they'll all run slow by exactly the >>>> same amount. You won't notice this, because your internal body clock >>>> will be running at the same speed. But people on Earth, watching on a >>>> TV monitor, will see you running slow. >>>> >>>> Now my brain is starting to overheat. >>>> >>>> luv, Rog. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 19:00:39 BST, Mike Giles via Tech1 >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Even if light becomes bent over great distances, the fact remains that >>>> there is still a hypothetical straight line which would meet the >>>> boundary of space, if there is one. I don?t believe space can have a >>>> boundary, because what would be on the other side of the boundary - >>>> more space. >>>> >>>> I find time going forward equally simple to absorb, because if time >>>> stopped, what would happen then - surely not ?nothing?! But time going >>>> backward into infinity requires greater understanding, or a descent >>>> into lunacy! I do have difficulty in comprehending descriptions of time >>>> varying with speed - my view is that what changes is the measurement of >>>> time, not time itself - now is now everywhere, even if it takes >>>> billions of light years for now to reach us from the far reaches. >>>> >>>> On a much smaller scale, of course, each individual is the only one >>>> capable of experiencing their own ?now? because by the time any >>>> external sensation impinges upon our brain, ?now? is already history - >>>> even if not exactly ancient history! >>>> >>>> Mike G >>>> >>>> On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> There's this - >>>> >>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif >>>> >>>> Never give up, never surrender >>>> >>>> B >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: >>>> O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking >>>> about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the >>>> shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On the >>>> Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, if you >>>> just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you started. In >>>> Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path taken by a ray >>>> of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but it's still the >>>> straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, if there is >>>> enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire Universe, then all >>>> rays of light will be bent round into complete circles. So, when you >>>> set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep going, whatever your >>>> direction, you will eventually get back to where you started (except >>>> that 'where you started' won't be there any more, because planets, >>>> stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then you can never reach >>>> the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of an 'Edge' to the >>>> Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no edge to the >>>> Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light could ever >>>> leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire Universe is >>>> on the inside of a stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive >>>> Black Hole! (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since >>>> the Universe only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed >>>> to bend light into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? >>>> >>>> Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! >>>> Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey >>>> animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional voices >>>> by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series here, >>>> Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws of >>>> Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. >>>> >>>> But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was those >>>> two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. I'm >>>> sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he >>>> managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a picture, >>>> showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of their gravity, >>>> how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in place, without >>>> demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to myself the >>>> counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes push stuff >>>> away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own mental >>>> diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even thicker >>>> than me (never actually met any, but there might be) >>>> that too could have done with some animated illustrations. >>>> >>>> luv, Rog. >>>> >>>> P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise >>>> that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when >>>> the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the >>>> end - it's impossible not to cheer! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the >>>> Universe contained in? >>>> >>>> If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like >>>> the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? >>>> >>>> Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. >>>> >>>> Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless >>>> time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage >>>> to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? >>>> >>>> A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe >>>> Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, >>>> earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! >>>> Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner >>>> of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. >>>> >>>> >>>> Pat >>>> >>>> (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the >>>> cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another >>>> planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the >>>> have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a >>>> plywood stage set!) >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 >>>> Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 >>>> To: Vernon Dyer >>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets >>>> >>>> >>>> Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, >>>> mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down >>>> the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. >>>> >>>> >>>> To quote somebody or other >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > From waresound at msn.com Sat Jun 29 03:28:51 2019 From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 08:28:51 +0000 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com><462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com><5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com><227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com><321048728.2360972.1561749972673@mail.yahoo.com><87FCC0F4-DC6D-4249-9A64-002E17D887B8@vincent68.plus.com> <9926223E-88A6-4507-953B-B5DF5BB6ECB7@icloud.com>, Message-ID: Yep. Bored with planets now. My only time and distance concern at the moment is whether or not I can make it to Ickenham on Wednesday! Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 29 Jun 2019, at 09:09, terrymeadowcroft via Tech1 > wrote: Hi Guys (of either gender - before you get cross), At the tender age of 74, I have accepted that my mind is not big enough to even bother considering where infinity ends, or what I would find there! Studying space has allowed me to accept how infinitely tiny we are, as individuals or as a race, and how simple is the reality that we all don't matter and when we die we are dust! Simples! Terry We are not threatening to destroy the planet. We only destroy our owsn negligible race. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme Wall via Tech1" > To: "John Vincent" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2019 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets Sounds catchy,. Who would use that description? ? Graeme Wall On 29 Jun 2019, at 04:07, John Vincent via Tech1 > wrote: Time and relative dimension in space? John V On 28 Jun 2019, at 20:26, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: But do you count the surface of a sphere as 2-dimensional or 3-dimensional? If you flatten out the Earth's surface into a 2-dimensional map (e.g. Mercator projection), some Great Circles will appear as straight lines (the Equator and lines of Longitude), others will look like sine waves, but are no less straight. A Great Circle is the shortest distance between two points and, therefore, a Straight Line, within a curved frame of reference i.e. the Earth's surface. Things to remember about Space - 1: No one can hear you scream. 2: It's the final frontier. 3: It's big - I mean - really big. 4: Space-Time is a four-dimensional Inertial Reference Frame, within which a ray of light can be defined as a Straight Line, although the entire Reference Frame may be curved by Gravity. It may even be curved enough for that Straight Line to become a circle - remembering that a Straight Line is just a circle of infinite diameter. In this case the diameter may not be infinite, but if it is the size of the entire damn Universe, who's to know the difference? luv, Rog. On Friday, 28 June 2019, 17:06:14 BST, Mike Giles > wrote: A great circle is surely only a straight line in two dimensions. Mike G On 28 Jun 2019, at 11:31, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 > wrote: Gravity doesn't just bend rays of light. It bends the whole fabric of space and time. If you were to fill inter-galactic space with those 'hypothetical straight lines', to create a gigantic 3-dimensional graph-paper, gravity would bend it. It would still look straight to you, of course, because your entire frame of reference would have bent with it. Those 'hypothetical straight lines' just don't exist, except in the human mind. They can become reality over short distances, but not across the vastness of space. In a sense the Universe does have a limit, because of the way it is expanding. The galaxies furthest from us are receding much faster than those closer to us. There appears to be a direct proportion between distance and rate of recession. This means that after a certain distance, the Universe will be receding from us faster than light. At this distance the Universe becomes inherently unknowable, since light from it will never reach us. And, since Einstein believed than nothing can travel faster than light, there shouldn't be anything out there. Time dilation was known about before Relativity explained it. Radio-active particles in Cosmic Rays, were observed to decay much more slowly than similar particles in the laboratory, because of the very high speeds at which they were travelling. In a sense you're right, it is the way we measure time which changes, but the way we measure time IS time. There is no absolute concept of time existing separately from the way we measure it - just as there is no absolute concept of straightness. If you're in a space ship full of clocks, travelling at a significant fraction of the speed of light, all those clock will run slow. It doesn't matter whether they're clockwork clocks, pendulum clocks, electronic clocks, atomic clocks, hour-glasses, notched candles, or your own heartbeat, they'll all run slow by exactly the same amount. You won't notice this, because your internal body clock will be running at the same speed. But people on Earth, watching on a TV monitor, will see you running slow. Now my brain is starting to overheat. luv, Rog. On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 19:00:39 BST, Mike Giles via Tech1 > wrote: Even if light becomes bent over great distances, the fact remains that there is still a hypothetical straight line which would meet the boundary of space, if there is one. I don?t believe space can have a boundary, because what would be on the other side of the boundary - more space. I find time going forward equally simple to absorb, because if time stopped, what would happen then - surely not ?nothing?! But time going backward into infinity requires greater understanding, or a descent into lunacy! I do have difficulty in comprehending descriptions of time varying with speed - my view is that what changes is the measurement of time, not time itself - now is now everywhere, even if it takes billions of light years for now to reach us from the far reaches. On a much smaller scale, of course, each individual is the only one capable of experiencing their own ?now? because by the time any external sensation impinges upon our brain, ?now? is already history - even if not exactly ancient history! Mike G On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > wrote: There's this - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif Never give up, never surrender B On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On the Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, if you just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you started. In Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path taken by a ray of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but it's still the straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, if there is enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire Universe, then all rays of light will be bent round into complete circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back to where you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any more, because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of an 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no edge to the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light could ever leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire Universe is on the inside of a stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black Hole! (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional voices by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series here, Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws of Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was those two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. I'm sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a picture, showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of their gravity, how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in place, without demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to myself the counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes push stuff away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own mental diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even thicker than me (never actually met any, but there might be) that too could have done with some animated illustrations. luv, Rog. P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the end - it's impossible not to cheer! On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 > wrote: My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the Universe contained in? If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. Pat (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 To: Vernon Dyer Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. To quote somebody or other Virus-free. www.avast.com -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Sat Jun 29 03:50:36 2019 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 09:50:36 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> <227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com> <321048728.2360972.1561749972673@mail.yahoo.com> <87FCC0F4-DC6D-4249-9A64-002E17D887B8@vincent68.plus.com> <9926223E-88A6-4507-953B-B5DF5BB6ECB7@icloud.com> Message-ID: <0ADFC440-6190-4ED9-8C6F-F3D277136180@icloud.com> I?m sure tehre will be space for you when you get there ? Graeme Wall > On 29 Jun 2019, at 09:28, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > > Yep. Bored with planets now. My only time and distance concern at the moment is whether or not I can make it to Ickenham on Wednesday! > Cheers, > Nick. > > Sent from my iPad > > On 29 Jun 2019, at 09:09, terrymeadowcroft via Tech1 wrote: > >> Hi Guys (of either gender - before you get cross), >> >> At the tender age of 74, I have accepted that my mind is not big enough to even bother considering where infinity ends, or what I would find there! >> >> Studying space has allowed me to accept how infinitely tiny we are, as individuals or as a race, and how simple is the reality that we all don't matter and when we die we are dust! >> >> Simples! >> >> Terry >> >> We are not threatening to destroy the planet. We only destroy our owsn negligible race. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme Wall via Tech1" >> To: "John Vincent" >> Cc: >> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2019 8:12 AM >> Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets >> >> >>> Sounds catchy,. Who would use that description? >>> ? >>> Graeme Wall >>> >>> >>>> On 29 Jun 2019, at 04:07, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>> Time and relative dimension in space? >>>> >>>> John V >>>> >>>> >>>> On 28 Jun 2019, at 20:26, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: >>>> >>>>> But do you count the surface of a sphere as 2-dimensional or 3-dimensional? >>>>> >>>>> If you flatten out the Earth's surface into a 2-dimensional map (e.g. Mercator projection), some Great Circles will appear as straight lines (the Equator and lines of Longitude), others will look like sine waves, but are no less straight. >>>>> A Great Circle is the shortest distance between two points and, therefore, a Straight Line, within a curved frame of reference i.e. the Earth's surface. >>>>> >>>>> Things to remember about Space - >>>>> >>>>> 1: No one can hear you scream. >>>>> 2: It's the final frontier. >>>>> 3: It's big - I mean - really big. >>>>> 4: Space-Time is a four-dimensional Inertial Reference Frame, within which a ray of light can be defined as a Straight Line, although the entire Reference Frame may be curved by Gravity. It may even be curved enough for that Straight Line to become a circle - remembering that a Straight Line is just a circle of infinite diameter. In this case the diameter may not be infinite, but if it is the size of the entire damn Universe, who's to know the difference? >>>>> >>>>> luv, Rog. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, 28 June 2019, 17:06:14 BST, Mike Giles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> A great circle is surely only a straight line in two dimensions. >>>>> >>>>> Mike G >>>>> >>>>> On 28 Jun 2019, at 11:31, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Gravity doesn't just bend rays of light. It bends the whole fabric of space and time. If you were to fill inter-galactic space with those 'hypothetical straight lines', to create a gigantic 3-dimensional graph-paper, gravity would bend it. It would still look straight to you, of course, because your entire frame of reference would have bent with it. Those 'hypothetical straight lines' just don't exist, except in the human mind. They can become reality over short distances, but not across the vastness of space. >>>>>> >>>>>> In a sense the Universe does have a limit, because of the way it is expanding. The galaxies furthest from us are receding much faster than those closer to us. There appears to be a direct proportion between distance and rate of recession. This means that after a certain distance, the Universe will be receding from us faster than light. At this distance the Universe becomes inherently unknowable, since light from it will never reach us. And, since Einstein believed than nothing can travel faster than light, there shouldn't be anything out there. >>>>>> >>>>>> Time dilation was known about before Relativity explained it. Radio-active particles in Cosmic Rays, were observed to decay much more slowly than similar particles in the laboratory, because of the very high speeds at which they were travelling. In a sense you're right, it is the way we measure time which changes, but the way we measure time IS time. There is no absolute concept of time existing separately from the way we measure it - just as there is no absolute concept of straightness. If you're in a space ship full of clocks, travelling at a significant fraction of the speed of light, all those clock will run slow. It doesn't matter whether they're clockwork clocks, pendulum clocks, electronic clocks, atomic clocks, hour-glasses, notched candles, or your own heartbeat, they'll all run slow by exactly the same amount. You won't notice this, because your internal body clock will be running at the same speed. But people on Earth, watching on a TV monitor, will see you running slow. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now my brain is starting to overheat. >>>>>> >>>>>> luv, Rog. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 19:00:39 BST, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Even if light becomes bent over great distances, the fact remains that there is still a hypothetical straight line which would meet the boundary of space, if there is one. I don?t believe space can have a boundary, because what would be on the other side of the boundary - more space. >>>>>> >>>>>> I find time going forward equally simple to absorb, because if time stopped, what would happen then - surely not ?nothing?! But time going backward into infinity requires greater understanding, or a descent into lunacy! I do have difficulty in comprehending descriptions of time varying with speed - my view is that what changes is the measurement of time, not time itself - now is now everywhere, even if it takes billions of light years for now to reach us from the far reaches. >>>>>> >>>>>> On a much smaller scale, of course, each individual is the only one capable of experiencing their own ?now? because by the time any external sensation impinges upon our brain, ?now? is already history - even if not exactly ancient history! >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike G >>>>>> >>>>>> On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> There's this - >>>>>> >>>>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif >>>>>> >>>>>> Never give up, never surrender >>>>>> >>>>>> B >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On the Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, if you just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you started. In Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path taken by a ray of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but it's still the straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, if there is enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire Universe, then all rays of light will be bent round into complete circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back to where you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any more, because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of an 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no edge to the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light could ever leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire Universe is on the inside of a stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black Hole! (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? >>>>>> >>>>>> Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional voices by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series here, Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws of Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. >>>>>> >>>>>> But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was those two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. I'm sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a picture, showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of their gravity, how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in place, without demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to myself the counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes push stuff away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own mental diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even thicker than me (never actually met any, but there might be) that too could have done with some animated illustrations. >>>>>> >>>>>> luv, Rog. >>>>>> >>>>>> P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the end - it's impossible not to cheer! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the Universe contained in? >>>>>> >>>>>> If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? >>>>>> >>>>>> A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! >>>>>> Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Pat >>>>>> >>>>>> (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 >>>>>> Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 >>>>>> To: Vernon Dyer >>>>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To quote somebody or other >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> -- >>>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tech1 mailing list >>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From keithwicksuk at gmail.com Sat Jun 29 03:54:30 2019 From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 09:54:30 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> <227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com> <321048728.2360972.1561749972673@mail.yahoo.com> <87FCC0F4-DC6D-4249-9A64-002E17D887B8@vincent68.plus.com> <9926223E-88A6-4507-953B-B5DF5BB6ECB7@icloud.com> Message-ID: That might be more complex than you imagine: "Visiting Ickenham is like taking a step back in time." More at: https://www.harefieldplace.com/updates/2018/why-move-to-ickenham KW On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 at 09:29, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote: > Yep. Bored with planets now. My only time and distance concern at the > moment is whether or not I can make it to Ickenham on Wednesday! > Cheers, > Nick. > > Sent from my iPad > > On 29 Jun 2019, at 09:09, terrymeadowcroft via Tech1 > wrote: > > Hi Guys (of either gender - before you get cross), > > At the tender age of 74, I have accepted that my mind is not big enough to > even bother considering where infinity ends, or what I would find there! > > Studying space has allowed me to accept how infinitely tiny we are, as > individuals or as a race, and how simple is the reality that we all don't > matter and when we die we are dust! > > Simples! > > Terry > > We are not threatening to destroy the planet. We only destroy our owsn > negligible race. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme Wall via Tech1" < > tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > To: "John Vincent" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2019 8:12 AM > Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets > > > Sounds catchy,. Who would use that description? > > ? > > Graeme Wall > > > > On 29 Jun 2019, at 04:07, John Vincent via Tech1 > wrote: > > > Time and relative dimension in space? > > > John V > > > > On 28 Jun 2019, at 20:26, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > > > But do you count the surface of a sphere as 2-dimensional or 3-dimensional? > > > If you flatten out the Earth's surface into a 2-dimensional map (e.g. > Mercator projection), some Great Circles will appear as straight lines (the > Equator and lines of Longitude), others will look like sine waves, but are > no less straight. > > A Great Circle is the shortest distance between two points and, therefore, > a Straight Line, within a curved frame of reference i.e. the Earth's > surface. > > > Things to remember about Space - > > > 1: No one can hear you scream. > > 2: It's the final frontier. > > 3: It's big - I mean - really big. > > 4: Space-Time is a four-dimensional Inertial Reference Frame, within which > a ray of light can be defined as a Straight Line, although the entire > Reference Frame may be curved by Gravity. It may even be curved enough for > that Straight Line to become a circle - remembering that a Straight Line is > just a circle of infinite diameter. In this case the diameter may not be > infinite, but if it is the size of the entire damn Universe, who's to know > the difference? > > > luv, Rog. > > > > On Friday, 28 June 2019, 17:06:14 BST, Mike Giles > wrote: > > > > A great circle is surely only a straight line in two dimensions. > > > Mike G > > > On 28 Jun 2019, at 11:31, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 > wrote: > > > Gravity doesn't just bend rays of light. It bends the whole fabric of > space and time. If you were to fill inter-galactic space with those > 'hypothetical straight lines', to create a gigantic 3-dimensional > graph-paper, gravity would bend it. It would still look straight to you, of > course, because your entire frame of reference would have bent with it. > Those 'hypothetical straight lines' just don't exist, except in the human > mind. They can become reality over short distances, but not across the > vastness of space. > > > In a sense the Universe does have a limit, because of the way it is > expanding. The galaxies furthest from us are receding much faster than > those closer to us. There appears to be a direct proportion between > distance and rate of recession. This means that after a certain distance, > the Universe will be receding from us faster than light. At this distance > the Universe becomes inherently unknowable, since light from it will never > reach us. And, since Einstein believed than nothing can travel faster than > light, there shouldn't be anything out there. > > > Time dilation was known about before Relativity explained it. Radio-active > particles in Cosmic Rays, were observed to decay much more slowly than > similar particles in the laboratory, because of the very high speeds at > which they were travelling. In a sense you're right, it is the way we > measure time which changes, but the way we measure time IS time. There is > no absolute concept of time existing separately from the way we measure it > - just as there is no absolute concept of straightness. If you're in a > space ship full of clocks, travelling at a significant fraction of the > speed of light, all those clock will run slow. It doesn't matter whether > they're clockwork clocks, pendulum clocks, electronic clocks, atomic > clocks, hour-glasses, notched candles, or your own heartbeat, they'll all > run slow by exactly the same amount. You won't notice this, because your > internal body clock will be running at the same speed. But people on Earth, > watching on a TV monitor, will see you running slow. > > > Now my brain is starting to overheat. > > > luv, Rog. > > > > On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 19:00:39 BST, Mike Giles via Tech1 < > tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > > > > Even if light becomes bent over great distances, the fact remains that > there is still a hypothetical straight line which would meet the boundary > of space, if there is one. I don?t believe space can have a boundary, > because what would be on the other side of the boundary - more space. > > > I find time going forward equally simple to absorb, because if time > stopped, what would happen then - surely not ?nothing?! But time going > backward into infinity requires greater understanding, or a descent into > lunacy! I do have difficulty in comprehending descriptions of time varying > with speed - my view is that what changes is the measurement of time, not > time itself - now is now everywhere, even if it takes billions of light > years for now to reach us from the far reaches. > > > On a much smaller scale, of course, each individual is the only one > capable of experiencing their own ?now? because by the time any external > sensation impinges upon our brain, ?now? is already history - even if not > exactly ancient history! > > > Mike G > > > On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > wrote: > > > There's this - > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif > > > Never give up, never surrender > > > B > > > > > On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: > > O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking about a > "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the shortest > distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On the Earth's > Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, if you just keep > going you'll eventually end up back where you started. In Physics, the > definition of a Straight Line is the path taken by a ray of light. We know > that Gravity bends light rays - but it's still the straightest you can > travel. The usual thinking is that, if there is enough matter, and > therefore Gravity, in the entire Universe, then all rays of light will be > bent round into complete circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' > and just keep going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back > to where you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any > more, because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then > you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of an > 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no edge to > the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light could ever > leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire Universe is on > the inside of a stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black > Hole! (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe > only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light into > circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? > > > Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! > Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey animation - > Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional voices by Peter > Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series here, Guys!) Maybe > with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws of Physics" > occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. > > > But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was those two > 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. I'm sure Brian > Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he managed to say > Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a picture, showing moving > moons, arrows indicating the direction of their gravity, how they swap > orbits and how this holds the ring in place, without demolishing it. I've > just about managed to explain to myself the counter-intuitive idea that > planetary gravity can sometimes push stuff away, rather than pulling it in > (I've had to draw my own mental diagrams for that). But just incase there > are any viewers even thicker than me (never actually met > any, but there might be) that too could have done with some animated > illustrations. > > > luv, Rog. > > > P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise that > the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when the > spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the end - > it's impossible not to cheer! > > > > > > > On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 < > tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > > > > My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the > Universe contained in? > > > If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the > inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? > > > Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. > > > Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless > time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to > completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? > > > A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe > Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly > explaining to camera what went wrong! > > Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of > frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. > > > > Pat > > > (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast > of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help > them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real > practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 > > Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 > > To: Vernon Dyer > > Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets > > > > Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly > big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the > chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. > > > > To quote somebody or other > > > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > -- > > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > > -- > > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > > -- > > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mail at terrymeadowcroft.co.uk Sat Jun 29 03:56:15 2019 From: mail at terrymeadowcroft.co.uk (terrymeadowcroft) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 09:56:15 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com><462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com><5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com><227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com><321048728.2360972.1561749972673@mail.yahoo.com><87FCC0F4-DC6D-4249-9A64-002E17D887B8@vincent68.plus.com><9926223E-88A6-4507-953B-B5DF5BB6ECB7@icloud.com>, Message-ID: <2DEAA1DE73EB44479D12C8EBD563B348@MEDDIES2012> Hi, Nick, Good luck with the journey on Wednesday. Try to make it a nice straight line. Terry PS can never get bored with the planets, or any other part of the universe - love it all to bits. I watch NASA''s web site most days. I think the trick is never to let any part of it worry me, 'cause I can't change it! Good thing is it makes all politicians and their squirmings, even Mr Fart, no, especially Mr. Fart, look very tiny and unimportant - that can't be bad! ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Ware via Tech1 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2019 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets Yep. Bored with planets now. My only time and distance concern at the moment is whether or not I can make it to Ickenham on Wednesday! Cheers, Nick. Sent from my iPad On 29 Jun 2019, at 09:09, terrymeadowcroft via Tech1 wrote: Hi Guys (of either gender - before you get cross), At the tender age of 74, I have accepted that my mind is not big enough to even bother considering where infinity ends, or what I would find there! Studying space has allowed me to accept how infinitely tiny we are, as individuals or as a race, and how simple is the reality that we all don't matter and when we die we are dust! Simples! Terry We are not threatening to destroy the planet. We only destroy our owsn negligible race. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graeme Wall via Tech1" To: "John Vincent" Cc: Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2019 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets Sounds catchy,. Who would use that description? ? Graeme Wall On 29 Jun 2019, at 04:07, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote: Time and relative dimension in space? John V On 28 Jun 2019, at 20:26, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: But do you count the surface of a sphere as 2-dimensional or 3-dimensional? If you flatten out the Earth's surface into a 2-dimensional map (e.g. Mercator projection), some Great Circles will appear as straight lines (the Equator and lines of Longitude), others will look like sine waves, but are no less straight. A Great Circle is the shortest distance between two points and, therefore, a Straight Line, within a curved frame of reference i.e. the Earth's surface. Things to remember about Space - 1: No one can hear you scream. 2: It's the final frontier. 3: It's big - I mean - really big. 4: Space-Time is a four-dimensional Inertial Reference Frame, within which a ray of light can be defined as a Straight Line, although the entire Reference Frame may be curved by Gravity. It may even be curved enough for that Straight Line to become a circle - remembering that a Straight Line is just a circle of infinite diameter. In this case the diameter may not be infinite, but if it is the size of the entire damn Universe, who's to know the difference? luv, Rog. On Friday, 28 June 2019, 17:06:14 BST, Mike Giles wrote: A great circle is surely only a straight line in two dimensions. Mike G On 28 Jun 2019, at 11:31, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: Gravity doesn't just bend rays of light. It bends the whole fabric of space and time. If you were to fill inter-galactic space with those 'hypothetical straight lines', to create a gigantic 3-dimensional graph-paper, gravity would bend it. It would still look straight to you, of course, because your entire frame of reference would have bent with it. Those 'hypothetical straight lines' just don't exist, except in the human mind. They can become reality over short distances, but not across the vastness of space. In a sense the Universe does have a limit, because of the way it is expanding. The galaxies furthest from us are receding much faster than those closer to us. There appears to be a direct proportion between distance and rate of recession. This means that after a certain distance, the Universe will be receding from us faster than light. At this distance the Universe becomes inherently unknowable, since light from it will never reach us. And, since Einstein believed than nothing can travel faster than light, there shouldn't be anything out there. Time dilation was known about before Relativity explained it. Radio-active particles in Cosmic Rays, were observed to decay much more slowly than similar particles in the laboratory, because of the very high speeds at which they were travelling. In a sense you're right, it is the way we measure time which changes, but the way we measure time IS time. There is no absolute concept of time existing separately from the way we measure it - just as there is no absolute concept of straightness. If you're in a space ship full of clocks, travelling at a significant fraction of the speed of light, all those clock will run slow. It doesn't matter whether they're clockwork clocks, pendulum clocks, electronic clocks, atomic clocks, hour-glasses, notched candles, or your own heartbeat, they'll all run slow by exactly the same amount. You won't notice this, because your internal body clock will be running at the same speed. But people on Earth, watching on a TV monitor, will see you running slow. Now my brain is starting to overheat. luv, Rog. On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 19:00:39 BST, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote: Even if light becomes bent over great distances, the fact remains that there is still a hypothetical straight line which would meet the boundary of space, if there is one. I don?t believe space can have a boundary, because what would be on the other side of the boundary - more space. I find time going forward equally simple to absorb, because if time stopped, what would happen then - surely not ?nothing?! But time going backward into infinity requires greater understanding, or a descent into lunacy! I do have difficulty in comprehending descriptions of time varying with speed - my view is that what changes is the measurement of time, not time itself - now is now everywhere, even if it takes billions of light years for now to reach us from the far reaches. On a much smaller scale, of course, each individual is the only one capable of experiencing their own ?now? because by the time any external sensation impinges upon our brain, ?now? is already history - even if not exactly ancient history! Mike G On 27 Jun 2019, at 18:18, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote: There's this - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PIA07712_-_F_ring_animation.gif Never give up, never surrender B On 27/06/2019 17:04, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote: O.K. "If one just kept going . . ."? Presumably, we are talking about a "Straight Line" here - but what is a Straight Line? Yeah, 'the shortest distance between two points' - but what does that mean? On the Earth's Surface a Straight Line is defined as a Great Circle so, if you just keep going you'll eventually end up back where you started. In Physics, the definition of a Straight Line is the path taken by a ray of light. We know that Gravity bends light rays - but it's still the straightest you can travel. The usual thinking is that, if there is enough matter, and therefore Gravity, in the entire Universe, then all rays of light will be bent round into complete circles. So, when you set out in a 'Straight Line' and just keep going, whatever your direction, you will eventually get back to where you started (except that 'where you started' won't be there any more, because planets, stars, galaxies keep moving). If this is true, then you can never reach the edge of the Universe, and the whole concept of an 'Edge' to the Universe disappears, in the same way that there is no edge to the Earth's surface. Also, if this is true, no ray of light could ever leave the Universe . . . which means . . . that the entire Universe is on the inside of a stonking-great-mega-hyper-uber-whopper-super-massive Black Hole! (Everybody Scream!) This may not be true, however, since the Universe only seems to contain about a tenth of the matter needed to bend light into circles. But what about all that Dark Matter? Now, wouldn't this be much easier to understand with a DIAGRAM! Preferably with an Eric Ilet or Alfred Wurmser or Bob Godfrey animation - Michael Bentine doing the voiceover - and additional voices by Peter Hawkins. (I think we've got a winning idea of a series here, Guys!) Maybe with James Doohan saying, "Ye canna change the Laws of Physics" occasionally, with Peter Jones as the book. But the bit I really wanted explained, in pictorial form, was those two 'Shepherd Moons' which shape the Epsilon ring around Uranus. I'm sure Brian Cox explained it as well as possible, in words (and he managed to say Uranus without sniggering once!) But I needed a picture, showing moving moons, arrows indicating the direction of their gravity, how they swap orbits and how this holds the ring in place, without demolishing it. I've just about managed to explain to myself the counter-intuitive idea that planetary gravity can sometimes push stuff away, rather than pulling it in (I've had to draw my own mental diagrams for that). But just incase there are any viewers even thicker than me (never actually met any, but there might be) that too could have done with some animated illustrations. luv, Rog. P.S. Totally agree about "Galaxy Quest", especially when they realise that the only people who can help them are the sci-fi-geeks - and when the spaceship smashes through the wall of the convention centre at the end - it's impossible not to cheer! On Thursday, 27 June 2019, 13:39:45 BST, patheigham via Tech1 wrote: My question , which frightens me to try and comprehend, is what is the Universe contained in? If one just kept on going, would we come up against a glass wall like the inside of a goldfish bowl! And what would that be held in? Cue Mike Bentine or Monty Python. Or Captain Kirk ?boldly going?. Maybe a concept of ?Eternity? but that is usually taken to mean endless time rather than ?space?. I expect foolish man will eventually manage to completely destroy our planet Earth, but with a huge IED? A fantasy picture of Attenborough, Patrick Moore, Magnus Pyke, Fyfe Robertson et al, each balancing on small remanent pieces of rock, earnestly explaining to camera what went wrong! Re: CGI ? is it too difficult to put up a small watermark in the corner of frame that says ?simulation?? Then we would be clear. Pat (P.S. One of my favourite films is ?Galaxy Quest? Story is that the cast of a TV space serial is picked up by little men from another planet to help them defeat an enemy. One brilliant part is that the have built a real practical space exploration ship, as opposed to a plywood stage set!) Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 Sent: 27 June 2019 09:05 To: Vernon Dyer Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space. To quote somebody or other Virus-free. www.avast.com -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Sat Jun 29 06:51:42 2019 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 12:51:42 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The view from Studio D Message-ID: <2D3AD678-581D-4126-992E-5A757F769DE2@icloud.com> Time for another train pic! ? Graeme Wall -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Studio D view.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 820440 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pat.heigham at amps.net Sat Jun 29 07:36:59 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 13:36:59 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The Planets In-Reply-To: <9926223E-88A6-4507-953B-B5DF5BB6ECB7@icloud.com> References: <5d14b8f3.1c69fb81.41b44.5015@mx.google.com> <462110922.1463195.1561651466877@mail.yahoo.com> <5DBD7B56-F9B1-413B-860B-1D220018907B@mac.com> <227687855.1923684.1561714271273@mail.yahoo.com> <321048728.2360972.1561749972673@mail.yahoo.com> <87FCC0F4-DC6D-4249-9A64-002E17D887B8@vincent68.plus.com> <9926223E-88A6-4507-953B-B5DF5BB6ECB7@icloud.com> Message-ID: <5d175b6b.1c69fb81.1e3c0.66f5@mx.google.com> Yes, WHO would! Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Graeme Wall via Tech1 Sent: 29 June 2019 08:12 To: John Vincent Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] The Planets Sounds catchy,. Who would use that description? ? Graeme Wall > On 29 Jun 2019, at 04:07, John Vincent via Tech1 wrote: > > Time and relative dimension in space? > > John V --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net Sat Jun 29 07:45:39 2019 From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 13:45:39 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The view from Studio D In-Reply-To: <2D3AD678-581D-4126-992E-5A757F769DE2@icloud.com> References: <2D3AD678-581D-4126-992E-5A757F769DE2@icloud.com> Message-ID: <8C9B53FCF14840908D7FAEC62C8BF92B@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> My word, that brings back some memories! The Met line, Shepherds Bush Station, bits of Shepherds Bush Market, Frithville Gardens, Uxbridge Road, TC in the background, the vast premises of the 600 Group of Companies ? feels like a part of me! Fabulous picture Graeme, wherever did you find it ? or did you take it? Either way, thank you! Dave Newbitt. From: Graeme Wall via Tech1 Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2019 12:51 PM To: tech1 Subject: [Tech1] The view from Studio D Time for another train pic! ? Graeme Wall -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Studio D view.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 820440 bytes Desc: not available URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Sat Jun 29 07:57:44 2019 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 13:57:44 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The view from Studio D In-Reply-To: <8C9B53FCF14840908D7FAEC62C8BF92B@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <2D3AD678-581D-4126-992E-5A757F769DE2@icloud.com> <8C9B53FCF14840908D7FAEC62C8BF92B@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: <7988FE2C-711C-4A59-B485-46527EDD8A8C@icloud.com> Have to admit it was one of mine, taken 10 Febriary 1971 when we were doing 24 Hours/Newsnight or whatever it ws called then. Just bought myself a new Practica Super TL and was trying it out. ? Graeme Wall > On 29 Jun 2019, at 13:45, David Newbitt wrote: > > My word, that brings back some memories! The Met line, Shepherds Bush Station, bits of Shepherds Bush Market, Frithville Gardens, Uxbridge Road, TC in the background, the vast premises of the 600 Group of Companies ? feels like a part of me! Fabulous picture Graeme, wherever did you find it ? or did you take it? Either way, thank you! > > Dave Newbitt. > > From: Graeme Wall via Tech1 > Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2019 12:51 PM > To: tech1 > Subject: [Tech1] The view from Studio D > > Time for another train pic! > > ? > Graeme Wall > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com Sat Jun 29 08:00:08 2019 From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:00:08 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] The view from Studio D In-Reply-To: <8C9B53FCF14840908D7FAEC62C8BF92B@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> References: <2D3AD678-581D-4126-992E-5A757F769DE2@icloud.com> <8C9B53FCF14840908D7FAEC62C8BF92B@DESKTOP6GGCRV1> Message-ID: Yes Uxbridge Road where a young lad was stabbed to death a couple of days ago and Grenfell Tower in the distance. Very sad times! John V On 29 Jun 2019, at 13:45, David Newbitt via Tech1 wrote: > My word, that brings back some memories! The Met line, Shepherds Bush Station, bits of Shepherds Bush Market, Frithville Gardens, Uxbridge Road, TC in the background, the vast premises of the 600 Group of Companies ? feels like a part of me! Fabulous picture Graeme, wherever did you find it ? or did you take it? Either way, thank you! > > Dave Newbitt. > > From: Graeme Wall via Tech1 > Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2019 12:51 PM > To: tech1 > Subject: [Tech1] The view from Studio D > > Time for another train pic! > > ? > Graeme Wall > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave at davesound.co.uk Sat Jun 29 09:47:48 2019 From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 15:47:48 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Motoring fines. Message-ID: <57cbc519f7dave@davesound.co.uk> Staying out of the sun here - and it's nearly 30C indoors. So typing is about the only thing I can manage. ;-) I consider myself a reasonably law abiding driver. But in London, they seem to set traps for the unwary, rather than downright law breakers. Backed up by the vast amount councils are making from fixed penalty fines, as on the news today. Easily proved by 'them' having cameras where they expect to catch lots of people, rather than simply enforcing the regs uniformly. Two examples. Recently took an old pal to the station early Sunday evening. Reasonably fit considering his age, but not up to much in the way of walking and climbing stairs, etc. Clapham junction does have an entrance where you might be able to drop people off - if not blocked solid with taxis, but this is on the wrong side of the station for the line he wanted, and it's a big station. So went to the rear entrance. Which is in a fairly quiet side road at that time on a Sunday evening. It is a bus route, but single deckers every 20 minutes or so, so not a major one. Outside the entrance, there is a zebra crossing. Would never stop on that. Parking either side was full, and the road narrows further on. Rather than block the road, I stopped on the bus stop. Only long enough for him to get out - some 15 seconds, by the camera footage. And not only was there a camera covering the bus stop, but it was operated, as it panned and zoomed in to my number plate. Second one was on a road I didn't know that well - needed to do a right turn at some traffic lights. Not in the rush hour, so light traffic. No right turn, so I went straight on, and did a U turn as soon as safe and practical. At traffic lights on a T junction into an industrial estate. When the light turned green for my turn into that, no traffic waiting, so seemed silly to drive into the estate to turn round since I could do it in one sweep. Again, a camera covered it all. And looking at the junction later, the no U turn sign was at the side of the road, rather than in the middle at the lights where it would have been obvious. Not disputing I'd broken the law or wanting to get out of paying the fine. Just the suspicion 'they' had done their best to maximise the numbers caught out like this. -- *I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore I am perfect* Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk London SW 12 From peter.neill at icloud.com Sat Jun 29 12:51:31 2019 From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 18:51:31 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] =?utf-8?q?Mary_Dudar_=E2=80=94_no=2C_not_one_of_those_em?= =?utf-8?q?ails?= Message-ID: Mary, who for many years was secretary to Sound Organiser and keeper of the car park tickets is approaching 40 years with the Beeb. Her current colleagues are asking for anecdotes and reminisces. You can reply to me in the first instance: peter.neill at icloud.com Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. From pat.heigham at amps.net Sat Jun 29 12:54:32 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 18:54:32 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Motoring fines. In-Reply-To: <57cbc519f7dave@davesound.co.uk> References: <57cbc519f7dave@davesound.co.uk> Message-ID: <5d17a5d8.1c69fb81.ec3b0.008d@mx.google.com> Sorry you got caught, Dave. I have a dashcam, which records in Hi-Def, in case anyone backs into me, but useful for alleged speeding offences as it records the GPS detected road speed. Not had to argue that, yet! One is encouraged to abandon private cars and use public transport, but it?s not been thought through about dropping off passengers. It?s said that there are more street cameras in the UK than anywhere else in the world ? anyone know if this is true? I often use the A3 which gives onto the Kingston by-pass ? this is now 50 limit just before the Hook underpass. Formerly, cameras covered the first part to the 50 limit area, but have been replaced by average speed cams, which puts paid to the wise guys who slow down to pass the camera then floor the pedal once they are past. Best Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Dave Plowman via Tech1 Sent: 29 June 2019 15:53 To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: [Tech1] Motoring fines. Staying out of the sun here - and it's nearly 30C indoors. So typing is about the only thing I can manage. ;-) I consider myself a reasonably law abiding driver. But in London, they seem to set traps for the unwary, rather than downright law breakers. Backed up by the vast amount councils are making from fixed penalty fines, as on the news today. Easily proved by 'them' having cameras where they expect to catch lots of people, rather than simply enforcing the regs uniformly. Two examples. Recently took an old pal to the station early Sunday evening. Reasonably fit considering his age, but not up to much in the way of walking and climbing stairs, etc. Clapham junction does have an entrance where you might be able to drop people off - if not blocked solid with taxis, but this is on the wrong side of the station for the line he wanted, and it's a big station. So went to the rear entrance. Which is in a fairly quiet side road at that time on a Sunday evening. It is a bus route, but single deckers every 20 minutes or so, so not a major one. Outside the entrance, there is a zebra crossing. Would never stop on that. Parking either side was full, and the road narrows further on. Rather than block the road, I stopped on the bus stop. Only long enough for him to get out - some 15 seconds, by the camera footage. And not only was there a camera covering the bus stop, but it was operated, as it panned and zoomed in to my number plate. Second one was on a road I didn't know that well - needed to do a right turn at some traffic lights. Not in the rush hour, so light traffic. No right turn, so I went straight on, and did a U turn as soon as safe and practical. At traffic lights on a T junction into an industrial estate. When the light turned green for my turn into that, no traffic waiting, so seemed silly to drive into the estate to turn round since I could do it in one sweep. Again, a camera covered it all. And looking at the junction later, the no U turn sign was at the side of the road, rather than in the middle at the lights where it would have been obvious. Not disputing I'd broken the law or wanting to get out of paying the fine. Just the suspicion 'they' had done their best to maximise the numbers caught out like this. -- *I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore I am perfect* Dave Plowman dave at davesound.co.uk London SW 12 -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Sat Jun 29 13:21:26 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 19:21:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] TFL cycle lanes In-Reply-To: <5d17a5d8.1c69fb81.ec3b0.008d@mx.google.com> References: <57cbc519f7dave@davesound.co.uk> <5d17a5d8.1c69fb81.ec3b0.008d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <64f1975b-6c71-a962-d30c-ed05439e5a21@btinternet.com> Doreen and I went up to Waterloo recently to see our step-granddaughter in a college performance near Backfriars. Walking is difficult these days so we took a taxi. The driver complained about all the new cycle lanes because he can't drop disabled passengers near access doors because there is a cycle lane in the way and he will be fined if he goes into it! He said he had had enough and was going back home. The number of road works for all the cycle lanes is ruining driving round London and also in my local town where the cycle lanes are as big as the main carriageway! Cars can't overtake buses anymore so there are constant traffic hold-ups and therefore more pollution! Cheers, Dave From pat.heigham at amps.net Sat Jun 29 13:35:41 2019 From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 19:35:41 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] TFL cycle lanes In-Reply-To: <64f1975b-6c71-a962-d30c-ed05439e5a21@btinternet.com> References: <57cbc519f7dave@davesound.co.uk> <5d17a5d8.1c69fb81.ec3b0.008d@mx.google.com> <64f1975b-6c71-a962-d30c-ed05439e5a21@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <5d17af7e.1c69fb81.91484.6176@mx.google.com> I know that taxis can travel in bus lanes, but was unaware of the cycle lane ban. Cyclists are a pain round my way on Sundays, as we live in the middle of the Ride London Route, and there are phalanxes of two-wheeled idiots ? like demented beetles ? out, practising the route. They do not pay road tax, nor insurance. One did actually look behind him, and waved me past ? on a blind left hand bend! One has to read the road in front of them as they will suddenly pull out to avoid potholes, and there are plenty of those. Pat Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: dave.mdv Sent: 29 June 2019 19:21 To: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] TFL cycle lanes Doreen and I went up to Waterloo recently to see our step-granddaughter in a college performance near Backfriars. Walking is difficult these days so we took a taxi. The driver complained about all the new cycle lanes because he can't drop disabled passengers near access doors because there is a cycle lane in the way and he will be fined if he goes into it! He said he had had enough and was going back home. The number of road works for all the cycle lanes is ruining driving round London and also in my local town where the cycle lanes are as big as the main carriageway! Cars can't overtake buses anymore so there are constant traffic hold-ups and therefore more pollution! Cheers, Dave --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Sun Jun 30 03:35:12 2019 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 09:35:12 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Electric Vehicle Noise Message-ID: <8a764b22-9e3b-cfd3-89d8-a1cd19fa41c0@howell61.f9.co.uk> I hear this morning that new electric vehicles will have to make a noise when moving slowly or reversing. They seemed to have come up with a Radiophonic-like sound but we know better don't we? If I had an electric Rolls Royce I would go for a Merlin aircraft engine, for a Range Rover: a Ferguson tractor, what would your choice be? ?John Cleese shouting 'This vehicle is reversing'? There would then be the prospect of failing an MOT because your car is not loud enough! John H. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graeme.wall at icloud.com Sun Jun 30 03:48:11 2019 From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 09:48:11 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Electric Vehicle Noise In-Reply-To: <8a764b22-9e3b-cfd3-89d8-a1cd19fa41c0@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <8a764b22-9e3b-cfd3-89d8-a1cd19fa41c0@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: <8B6343AA-0141-4D29-A933-9A21A7028FEF@icloud.com> Regardless of vehicle it?s got to be the Dr Who theme (original version) ? Graeme Wall > On 30 Jun 2019, at 09:35, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > > I hear this morning that new electric vehicles will have to make a noise when moving slowly or reversing. > > They seemed to have come up with a Radiophonic-like sound but we know better don't we? > > If I had an electric Rolls Royce I would go for a Merlin aircraft engine, for a Range Rover: a Ferguson tractor, what would your choice be? > > John Cleese shouting 'This vehicle is reversing'? > > There would then be the prospect of failing an MOT because your car is not loud enough! > > > > John H. > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Sun Jun 30 03:58:04 2019 From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 09:58:04 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Electric Vehicle Noise In-Reply-To: <8B6343AA-0141-4D29-A933-9A21A7028FEF@icloud.com> Message-ID: I am surprised they do not have a man with a red flag walking in front! Paul Thackray PGT Media Consulting Ltd. 07802 243979 Mail;?paul at pgtmedia.co.uk Web;?http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk Linkedin;???http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746 IMDB;?http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/ sent from my BlackBerry?the most secure mobile device?via the O2 Network ? Original Message ? From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Sent: 30 June 2019 09:48 To: j at howell61.f9.co.uk Reply to: graeme.wall at icloud.com Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Electric Vehicle Noise Regardless of vehicle it?s got to be the Dr Who theme (original version) ? Graeme Wall > On 30 Jun 2019, at 09:35, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > > I hear this morning that new electric vehicles will have to make a noise when moving slowly or reversing. > > They seemed to have come up with a Radiophonic-like sound but we know better don't we? > > If I had an electric Rolls Royce I would go for a Merlin aircraft engine, for a Range Rover: a Ferguson tractor, what would your choice be? > >? John Cleese shouting 'This vehicle is reversing'? > > There would then be the prospect of failing an MOT because your car is not loud enough! > > > > John H. > > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk -- Tech1 mailing list Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From alanaudio at me.com Sun Jun 30 06:07:41 2019 From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 12:07:41 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Electric Vehicle Noise In-Reply-To: <8B6343AA-0141-4D29-A933-9A21A7028FEF@icloud.com> References: <8a764b22-9e3b-cfd3-89d8-a1cd19fa41c0@howell61.f9.co.uk> <8B6343AA-0141-4D29-A933-9A21A7028FEF@icloud.com> Message-ID: In 1970 I used to drive a Rover 3 litre, which had a beautifully quiet engine. The silence was usually a good thing, but working on OBs often involves driving off-site through crowds of pedestrians and they frequently failed to hear my car creeping up behind them. In contrast to the hushed tones of the engine, the horn could wake the dead, so there was no such thing as a friendly toot to warn them that I was there. The solution I adopted was to buy a bicycle horn with a rubber bulb, pulling it apart and using 10mm plastic tubing to connect the bulb part under the dashboard to the horn part near the radiator grille. When getting close to pedestrians, a friendly parp caused people to turn round and be amused to see a huge car when they expected something like a bicycle. Previously, even even briefly sounding the proper car horn sometimes caused offence. Alan Taylor On 30 Jun 2019, at 30 Jun . 09:48, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: > Regardless of vehicle it?s got to be the Dr Who theme (original version) > ? > Graeme Wall > > >> On 30 Jun 2019, at 09:35, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >> >> I hear this morning that new electric vehicles will have to make a noise when moving slowly or reversing. >> >> They seemed to have come up with a Radiophonic-like sound but we know better don't we? >> >> If I had an electric Rolls Royce I would go for a Merlin aircraft engine, for a Range Rover: a Ferguson tractor, what would your choice be? >> >> John Cleese shouting 'This vehicle is reversing'? >> >> There would then be the prospect of failing an MOT because your car is not loud enough! >> >> >> >> John H. >> >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From j at howell61.f9.co.uk Sun Jun 30 06:30:53 2019 From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 12:30:53 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Electric Vehicle Noise In-Reply-To: References: <8a764b22-9e3b-cfd3-89d8-a1cd19fa41c0@howell61.f9.co.uk> <8B6343AA-0141-4D29-A933-9A21A7028FEF@icloud.com> Message-ID: <728a1134-b5ad-8149-5794-a2fb762f45bc@howell61.f9.co.uk> Just the job for "Roadrunner"? methinks, (meep meep!). On 30/06/2019 12:07, Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > In 1970 I used to drive a Rover 3 litre, which had a beautifully quiet engine. The silence was usually a good thing, but working on OBs often involves driving off-site through crowds of pedestrians and they frequently failed to hear my car creeping up behind them. In contrast to the hushed tones of the engine, the horn could wake the dead, so there was no such thing as a friendly toot to warn them that I was there. > > The solution I adopted was to buy a bicycle horn with a rubber bulb, pulling it apart and using 10mm plastic tubing to connect the bulb part under the dashboard to the horn part near the radiator grille. When getting close to pedestrians, a friendly parp caused people to turn round and be amused to see a huge car when they expected something like a bicycle. Previously, even even briefly sounding the proper car horn sometimes caused offence. > > Alan Taylor > > > On 30 Jun 2019, at 30 Jun . 09:48, Graeme Wall via Tech1 wrote: > >> Regardless of vehicle it?s got to be the Dr Who theme (original version) >> ? >> Graeme Wall >> >> >>> On 30 Jun 2019, at 09:35, John Howell via Tech1 wrote: >>> >>> I hear this morning that new electric vehicles will have to make a noise when moving slowly or reversing. >>> >>> They seemed to have come up with a Radiophonic-like sound but we know better don't we? >>> >>> If I had an electric Rolls Royce I would go for a Merlin aircraft engine, for a Range Rover: a Ferguson tractor, what would your choice be? >>> >>> John Cleese shouting 'This vehicle is reversing'? >>> >>> There would then be the prospect of failing an MOT because your car is not loud enough! >>> >>> >>> >>> John H. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tech1 mailing list >>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ian.hillson at gmail.com Sun Jun 30 07:41:49 2019 From: ian.hillson at gmail.com (Ian H) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:41:49 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Electric Vehicle Noise In-Reply-To: References: <8a764b22-9e3b-cfd3-89d8-a1cd19fa41c0@howell61.f9.co.uk> <8B6343AA-0141-4D29-A933-9A21A7028FEF@icloud.com> Message-ID: And in that death trap you used to drive in Kew, too, I seem to remember.... Ian On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 12:08 PM Alan Taylor via Tech1 wrote: > In 1970 I used to drive a Rover 3 litre, which had a beautifully quiet > engine. The silence was usually a good thing, but working on OBs often > involves driving off-site through crowds of pedestrians and they frequently > failed to hear my car creeping up behind them. In contrast to the hushed > tones of the engine, the horn could wake the dead, so there was no such > thing as a friendly toot to warn them that I was there. > > The solution I adopted was to buy a bicycle horn with a rubber bulb, > pulling it apart and using 10mm plastic tubing to connect the bulb part > under the dashboard to the horn part near the radiator grille. When > getting close to pedestrians, a friendly parp caused people to turn round > and be amused to see a huge car when they expected something like a > bicycle. Previously, even even briefly sounding the proper car horn > sometimes caused offence. > > Alan Taylor > > > On 30 Jun 2019, at 30 Jun . 09:48, Graeme Wall via Tech1 < > tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote: > > > Regardless of vehicle it?s got to be the Dr Who theme (original version) > > ? > > Graeme Wall > > > > > >> On 30 Jun 2019, at 09:35, John Howell via Tech1 > wrote: > >> > >> I hear this morning that new electric vehicles will have to make a > noise when moving slowly or reversing. > >> > >> They seemed to have come up with a Radiophonic-like sound but we know > better don't we? > >> > >> If I had an electric Rolls Royce I would go for a Merlin aircraft > engine, for a Range Rover: a Ferguson tractor, what would your choice be? > >> > >> John Cleese shouting 'This vehicle is reversing'? > >> > >> There would then be the prospect of failing an MOT because your car is > not loud enough! > >> > >> > >> > >> John H. > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Tech1 mailing list > >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > > > > -- > > Tech1 mailing list > > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ian.hillson at gmail.com Sun Jun 30 07:49:43 2019 From: ian.hillson at gmail.com (Ian H) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 13:49:43 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Electric Vehicle Noise In-Reply-To: <8a764b22-9e3b-cfd3-89d8-a1cd19fa41c0@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <8a764b22-9e3b-cfd3-89d8-a1cd19fa41c0@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: *"I hear this morning ? that new electric vehicles will have to make a noise when moving slowly or reversing"* They'll need to revoke/amend the law about not sounding a horn at night first, shurly? That's what's stymied electric vehicles making warning noises so far. https://twitter.com/iansco/status/954857248068636672 Best I On Sun, Jun 30, 2019 at 9:35 AM John Howell via Tech1 wrote: > I hear this morning that new electric vehicles will have to make a noise > when moving slowly or reversing. > > They seemed to have come up with a Radiophonic-like sound but we know > better don't we? > > If I had an electric Rolls Royce I would go for a Merlin aircraft engine, > for a Range Rover: a Ferguson tractor, what would your choice be? > > John Cleese shouting 'This vehicle is reversing'? > > There would then be the prospect of failing an MOT because your car is not > loud enough! > > > John H. > > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ian.hillson at gmail.com Sun Jun 30 08:11:24 2019 From: ian.hillson at gmail.com (Ian H) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 14:11:24 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] This time next year... Message-ID: ....will mark 60 years since TVC opened https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/status/1144893265327509505 [image: TVC.jpg] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TVC.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 461712 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dave.mdv at btinternet.com Sun Jun 30 16:06:06 2019 From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 22:06:06 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Electric Vehicle Noise In-Reply-To: <8a764b22-9e3b-cfd3-89d8-a1cd19fa41c0@howell61.f9.co.uk> References: <8a764b22-9e3b-cfd3-89d8-a1cd19fa41c0@howell61.f9.co.uk> Message-ID: <7c4d6024-a3a9-292f-67e7-3ceb01f6a891@btinternet.com> Brilliant suggestions, John! I love the idea of the Ferguson tractor for the 'Chelsea Tractors' which are blighting my neighbourhood! Cheers, Dave From alawrance1 at me.com Sun Jun 30 16:14:45 2019 From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 22:14:45 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Electric Vehicle Noise In-Reply-To: <7c4d6024-a3a9-292f-67e7-3ceb01f6a891@btinternet.com> References: <8a764b22-9e3b-cfd3-89d8-a1cd19fa41c0@howell61.f9.co.uk> <7c4d6024-a3a9-292f-67e7-3ceb01f6a891@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <45FE9DB6-AB35-4300-85EB-C2AAE3DB0874@me.com> I read somewhere that a noise similar to a duck quack was a good, non-aggressive sound for a car horn, and could be used as a warning to pedestrians about an approaching electric car ( perhaps a Toyota Pious), without provoking ?road rage? I think it was from a Japanese research body. Alasdair Lawrance Sent from my iPad Pro. > On 30 Jun 2019, at 22:06, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote: > > Brilliant suggestions, John! I love the idea of the Ferguson tractor for the 'Chelsea Tractors' which are blighting my neighbourhood! Cheers, Dave > > -- > Tech1 mailing list > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk From bernie833 at gmail.com Sun Jun 30 16:33:26 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 22:33:26 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Electric Vehicle Noise In-Reply-To: <45FE9DB6-AB35-4300-85EB-C2AAE3DB0874@me.com> References: <8a764b22-9e3b-cfd3-89d8-a1cd19fa41c0@howell61.f9.co.uk> <7c4d6024-a3a9-292f-67e7-3ceb01f6a891@btinternet.com> <45FE9DB6-AB35-4300-85EB-C2AAE3DB0874@me.com> Message-ID: <2b580fa3-ece2-e66e-b0c1-3fcdf33594aa@ntlworld.com> You could use this - https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMhGOBRvbGvw_bEnCuVjNF3_xXsOYyX2u7vYmtR B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernie833 at gmail.com Sun Jun 30 16:33:46 2019 From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2019 22:33:46 +0100 Subject: [Tech1] Electric Vehicle Noise In-Reply-To: <45FE9DB6-AB35-4300-85EB-C2AAE3DB0874@me.com> References: <8a764b22-9e3b-cfd3-89d8-a1cd19fa41c0@howell61.f9.co.uk> <7c4d6024-a3a9-292f-67e7-3ceb01f6a891@btinternet.com> <45FE9DB6-AB35-4300-85EB-C2AAE3DB0874@me.com> Message-ID: You could use this - https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMhGOBRvbGvw_bEnCuVjNF3_xXsOYyX2u7vYmtR B -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: