From johna.bennett at talktalk.net  Sat Aug  3 10:27:49 2019
From: johna.bennett at talktalk.net (John Bennett)
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 16:27:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] new printer?
In-Reply-To: <114546793.1952085.1564315119407@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <114546793.1952085.1564315119407.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<114546793.1952085.1564315119407@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <289b4c76-7838-bde8-3fbd-4615198f5cc8@talktalk.net>

I have one of these. it has CD/DVD printing options.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epson-Expression-Photo-XP-8500-Printer-x/dp/B075NP7CWC

Cheers??? John

On 28/07/2019 12:58, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote:
> Lads, I'm in the market for a new printer here at home.
>
> ? These days about 85% of the stuff I print is DVD's, so I need a 
> printer that does that, it seems they are now fewer around.
> Have popped into PC World today (I know, I know...) and out of the 100 
> or so printers they had in store, NOT ONE was able to print discs.
> I'm currently using an Epson Photo R285, but it's seen better days I'm 
> afraid.
> That plus I have a big-ish job coming up to print a load of discs has 
> prompted me to investigate a new one.
>
> Any recommendations?
>
>
> all the best,
> ???? Gary C
>
-- 
John Bennett
07768 527518



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From gary_critcher at yahoo.com  Sat Aug  3 10:51:24 2019
From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher)
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 15:51:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] new printer?
In-Reply-To: <289b4c76-7838-bde8-3fbd-4615198f5cc8@talktalk.net>
References: <114546793.1952085.1564315119407.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<114546793.1952085.1564315119407@mail.yahoo.com>
	<289b4c76-7838-bde8-3fbd-4615198f5cc8@talktalk.net>
Message-ID: <397526735.841482.1564847484503@mail.yahoo.com>

 Thanks indeed for the note, John.
? I was due to drop the group a line today but your e-mail has prompted me to do it right now, because.......that's the very printer I purchased last week!
Havent' had time to take it out of the box as yet, but rather looking forward to putting it through its' paces.
Thanks for all the helpful hints everyone,all the best & have a good weekend.
? Gary
    On Saturday, 3 August 2019, 16:28:21 BST, John Bennett via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:  
 
   
I have one of these. it has CD/DVD printing options.
 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Epson-Expression-Photo-XP-8500-Printer-x/dp/B075NP7CWC
 Cheers??? John
  
  On 28/07/2019 12:58, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote:
  
  Lads, I'm in the market for a new printer here at home. 
  ? These days about 85% of the stuff I print is DVD's, so I need a printer that does that, it seems they are now fewer around. Have popped into PC World today (I know, I know...) and out of the 100 or so printers they had in store, NOT ONE was able to print discs. I'm currently using an Epson Photo R285, but it's seen better days I'm afraid. That plus I have a big-ish job coming up to print a load of discs has prompted me to investigate a new one. 
  Any recommendations? 
  
  all the best, ???? Gary C
   
  
 -- 
John Bennett
07768 527518 

|  | Virus-free. www.avast.com  |

 -- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
  
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  4 04:39:20 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 10:39:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Bikers alert
Message-ID: <ab14658a-03b7-be7d-a1ff-a3632b2eb9aa@gmail.com>

Robin Sutherland tells me that The Brooklands Section of The Vintage 
Motor Cycle Club hold monthly summer social meets at The Crown Horsell.? 
It?s grown to include much more than the members and now get a very 
decent turnout of bikes old and new.

The next meet is Tuesday evening from around 8pm and Robin will be there 
on his BMW, so if you have appropriate machinery you are welcome to join 
in.? The Crown is at 104 High St, Woking GU21 4ST

cheers

B


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From alanaudio at me.com  Sun Aug  4 05:03:46 2019
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 11:03:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Bikers alert
In-Reply-To: <ab14658a-03b7-be7d-a1ff-a3632b2eb9aa@gmail.com>
References: <ab14658a-03b7-be7d-a1ff-a3632b2eb9aa@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CF19AE34-5AD9-4CDA-AC14-E80F20D446B0@me.com>

Related to that.  

Every year, usually on Father's day in June, there is a huge vintage motorbike meeting called the Banbury Run.  It starts from Gaydon and 500-600 vintage motorbikes drive along routes around the countryside near here.  Many of the riders wear Edwardian or other vintage costume and it's a very light hearted event.

One of the usually driven routes goes right past my house and also past ( or via ) a rather good pub opposite my house.  If any of the Tech Ops people are ever riding such a bike on the run, or fancy watching them pass, it would be good to meet up for a pint.

I'll try to remember to post a reminder next year.

Alan Taylor



On 4 Aug 2019, at 4 Aug . 10:39, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Robin Sutherland tells me that The Brooklands Section of The Vintage Motor Cycle Club hold monthly summer social meets at The Crown Horsell.  It?s grown to include much more than the members and now get a very decent turnout of bikes old and new.
> 
> The next meet is Tuesday evening from around 8pm and Robin will be there on his BMW, so if you have appropriate machinery you are welcome to join in.  The Crown is at 104 High St, Woking GU21 4ST
> 
> cheers
> 
> B
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From gary_critcher at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  4 11:11:52 2019
From: gary_critcher at yahoo.com (Gary Critcher)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 16:11:52 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] making a dvd from an avi file.....
References: <2017738088.1162155.1564935112228.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2017738088.1162155.1564935112228@mail.yahoo.com>

...I know,? one of the basic things you can do.....BUT I'm currently running CS4, including Encore DVD? and I'm having a terrifically hard time producing a dvd of my latest 15 minute video.
? I have already produced an avi of the project and also an m2v file, but neither seem to want to let themselves be transferred to a dvd.
Does anyone still use a standalone programme for just this purpose?


? all the best!
?Gary
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  4 11:31:32 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 17:31:32 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] making a dvd from an avi file.....
In-Reply-To: <2017738088.1162155.1564935112228@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2017738088.1162155.1564935112228.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2017738088.1162155.1564935112228@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8e0871a3-7b05-0c2f-b183-23e3282ac771@gmail.com>

I have Encore CS6 -? which I haven't used for a long time -? but I just 
started a project and imported an avi, then stuck it on a timeline. It 
all seems to work fine.? I wonder if you have a codec problem. Do you 
know which one your avi is using, and that Encore likes that one?

B



On 04/08/2019 17:11, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote:
> ...I know,? one of the basic things you can do.....BUT I'm currently 
> running CS4, including Encore DVD? and I'm having a terrifically hard 
> time producing a dvd of my latest 15 minute video.
>
> ? I have already produced an avi of the project and also an m2v file, 
> but neither seem to want to let themselves be transferred to a dvd.
>
> Does anyone still use a standalone programme for just this purpose?
>
>
>
> ? all the best!
> ?Gary
>

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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Sun Aug  4 11:53:43 2019
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 17:53:43 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] making a dvd from an avi file.....
In-Reply-To: <2017738088.1162155.1564935112228@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2017738088.1162155.1564935112228.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2017738088.1162155.1564935112228@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b128afa1-d866-07f0-a939-34552be885cd@gmail.com>

Hi,

On 04/08/2019 17:11, Gary Critcher via Tech1 wrote:
> Does anyone still use a standalone programme for just this purpose?


If you want a fully UNfeatured, rough-and-ready DVD maker, this DOES 
work - the main menu produced is very rough and not configurable (AFAIK) 
- and I really am not proud to suggest it!


DVDVideosoft? Free Studio?? (https://www.dvdvideosoft.com)

Free Studio?? ->? Free Video to DVD converter



I am sure others will offer proper programs for it!


-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502

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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  5 09:29:36 2019
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 15:29:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] GWR - Mike Bond
Message-ID: <9a522b8a-febe-d2c7-32c9-86ee043c965c@gmail.com>

Hi all,

Idly clicking through the web, I cam across this!? (hadn't known about 
this before)


-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Aug  5 10:48:50 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 16:48:50 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] GWR - Mike Bond
In-Reply-To: <9a522b8a-febe-d2c7-32c9-86ee043c965c@gmail.com>
References: <9a522b8a-febe-d2c7-32c9-86ee043c965c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d484fe3.1c69fb81.8ef8b.fb6b@mx.google.com>

Yes, Wikipedia has this:
Pretty good for a lovely cameraman. Never worked with him, but gather he was a great guy. So glad that he made good as an author.
On 10 January 2018, GWR named one of their Class 800 trains "Michael Bond"/"Paddington Bear". 

Statue of Paddington Bear in Paddington Station after Michael Bond's death.
He lived in London, not far from Paddington Station, the place that inspired many of his books. 
Bond died in London on 27 June 2017, at the age of 91. No cause was given. The film Paddington 2 (2017) was dedicated to his memory. 


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alec Bray via Tech1
Sent: 05 August 2019 15:30
To: TechOps Forum
Subject: [Tech1] GWR - Mike Bond

Hi all,
Idly clicking through the web, I cam across this!? (hadn't known about this before)


-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502



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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  5 11:07:29 2019
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 17:07:29 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] GWR - Mike Bond
In-Reply-To: <5d484fe3.1c69fb81.8ef8b.fb6b@mx.google.com>
References: <9a522b8a-febe-d2c7-32c9-86ee043c965c@gmail.com>
	<5d484fe3.1c69fb81.8ef8b.fb6b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <d43fe5d0-9d40-c407-c952-94cddaa15511@gmail.com>

Hi Pat, (and others)

Thank you for chasing up that Wikipedia entry!

On 05/08/2019 16:48, patheigham wrote:
> Never worked with him, but gather he was a great guy.

Mike was my first senior cameraman - Crew 7, Jan 1963.? He really put me 
at my ease when I joined the crew, and certainly looked after me in my 
early days on the crew. ? He was always affable and unflappable - I have 
very pleasant - if unspecific - memories of working with him.

-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502




From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Aug  5 11:21:08 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 17:21:08 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] GWR - Mike Bond
In-Reply-To: <d43fe5d0-9d40-c407-c952-94cddaa15511@gmail.com>
References: <9a522b8a-febe-d2c7-32c9-86ee043c965c@gmail.com>
	<5d484fe3.1c69fb81.8ef8b.fb6b@mx.google.com>
	<d43fe5d0-9d40-c407-c952-94cddaa15511@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d485774.1c69fb81.831de.697a@mx.google.com>

I usually travel to the SW on SW Trains, so might not have the opportunity to be hauled by ?Michael Bond?
Sad that he did not survive to witness his own locomotive!
But pleased that GWR had enough nouse to register the fact.
Pat



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alec Bray
Sent: 05 August 2019 17:07
Subject: Re: [Tech1] GWR - Mike Bond

Hi Pat, (and others)

Thank you for chasing up that Wikipedia entry!

On 05/08/2019 16:48, patheigham wrote:
> Never worked with him, but gather he was a great guy.

Mike was my first senior cameraman - Crew 7, Jan 1963.? He really put me 
at my ease when I joined the crew, and certainly looked after me in my 
early days on the crew. ? He was always affable and unflappable - I have 
very pleasant - if unspecific - memories of working with him.

-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502





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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  5 14:51:34 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 20:51:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Paper camera
Message-ID: <41b9f9de-423a-8680-480f-88311a02ac87@gmail.com>

I sold 38 of the EMI 2001 cut out cameras, till I stopped making them. I 
was hoping that people would show me results, and finally I have one, 
from Andrew Elliot. It looks very good.

B

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From mibridge at mac.com  Mon Aug  5 15:27:30 2019
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 21:27:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Paper camera
In-Reply-To: <41b9f9de-423a-8680-480f-88311a02ac87@gmail.com>
References: <41b9f9de-423a-8680-480f-88311a02ac87@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C7877F2E-341E-438D-898D-C1D8B08E79C4@mac.com>

Have you thought of inserting a minicam of some sort, so that it really does produce pictures?

Mike G


> On 5 Aug 2019, at 20:51, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I sold 38 of the EMI 2001 cut out cameras, till I stopped making them. I was hoping that people would show me results, and finally I have one, from Andrew Elliot. It looks very good.
> 
> B
> 
> <degeijoablpdodgo.png>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Mon Aug  5 16:15:07 2019
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 22:15:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
Message-ID: <87d183c4-524f-51ce-d84c-04ddb5c3a81a@btinternet.com>

I have just been 'up North' ie. beyond the M25, and on the way back to 
civilisation I had to refuel at Watford Gap motorway services as there 
was a huge delay coming up on the M1. The BP unleaded price was 
?1.499/litre, ie. 90p. per gallon more expensive than off the M1! I 
remember years ago going to a petrol station that was one or two pence 
cheaper but 90p.! Lesson learned! Cheers, Dave


From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  5 17:00:29 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 23:00:29 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Paper camera
In-Reply-To: <C7877F2E-341E-438D-898D-C1D8B08E79C4@mac.com>
References: <41b9f9de-423a-8680-480f-88311a02ac87@gmail.com>
	<C7877F2E-341E-438D-898D-C1D8B08E79C4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <cfbd5d68-da42-c4b3-fcec-a616c72de8d0@gmail.com>

You can buy an endoscope on ebay for not much money - 
http://tiny.cc/g36raz . The cable would be about the right diameter I 
think.? There are 37 cameras out there just waiting to be fitted

B



On 05/08/2019 21:27, Mike Giles wrote:
> Have you thought of inserting a minicam of some sort, so that it 
> really does produce pictures?
>
> Mike G
>
>
>> On 5 Aug 2019, at 20:51, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> I sold 38 of the EMI 2001 cut out cameras, till I stopped making 
>> them. I was hoping that people would show me results, and finally I 
>> have one, from Andrew Elliot. It looks very good.
>>
>> B
>>
>> <degeijoablpdodgo.png>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Mon Aug  5 18:01:07 2019
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 00:01:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
Message-ID: <53E8D7540FA246F8BB2CC8CE51D7DD06@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Cheer up Dave,



Those were the days!

Dave Newbitt.
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Mon Aug  5 18:55:33 2019
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 00:55:33 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
In-Reply-To: <53E8D7540FA246F8BB2CC8CE51D7DD06@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <53E8D7540FA246F8BB2CC8CE51D7DD06@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <ce6b1721-32d5-b932-1e62-1830c4656baa@btinternet.com>

...they were indeed! I was going to give up driving when it got to ?1 
per gallon and give up drinking when it got to ?1 per pint! Silly me! 
Cheers, hic, Dave


From waresound at msn.com  Tue Aug  6 03:21:54 2019
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 08:21:54 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
In-Reply-To: <87d183c4-524f-51ce-d84c-04ddb5c3a81a@btinternet.com>
References: <87d183c4-524f-51ce-d84c-04ddb5c3a81a@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB027100F739610FC8E024A905A7D50@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

They charge more to encourage people like you and me to only put in enough to get us to the nearest Sainsbury?s.
Nick.
Sent from my iPad

On 5 Aug 2019, at 22:19, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

I have just been 'up North' ie. beyond the M25, and on the way back to civilisation I had to refuel at Watford Gap motorway services as there was a huge delay coming up on the M1. The BP unleaded price was ?1.499/litre, ie. 90p. per gallon more expensive than off the M1! I remember years ago going to a petrol station that was one or two pence cheaper but 90p.! Lesson learned! Cheers, Dave

--
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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Tue Aug  6 07:41:59 2019
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 13:41:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB027100F739610FC8E024A905A7D50@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <87d183c4-524f-51ce-d84c-04ddb5c3a81a@btinternet.com>
	<VI1P192MB027100F739610FC8E024A905A7D50@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <D40DD52D-D47D-46E7-8D32-4513C2E99459@btinternet.com>

So expensive is fuel in Buckinghamshire that you can buy a quart!!
Barry.

		


On 6 Aug 2019, at 09:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> They charge more to encourage people like you and me to only put in enough to get us to the nearest Sainsbury?s.
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 5 Aug 2019, at 22:19, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> I have just been 'up North' ie. beyond the M25, and on the way back to civilisation I had to refuel at Watford Gap motorway services as there was a huge delay coming up on the M1. The BP unleaded price was ?1.499/litre, ie. 90p. per gallon more expensive than off the M1! I remember years ago going to a petrol station that was one or two pence cheaper but 90p.! Lesson learned! Cheers, Dave
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Tue Aug  6 07:56:21 2019
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer)
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 13:56:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
Message-ID: <kp74j0elnve5530dtrohp3ve.1565096181409@email.android.com>

When I had my first car, in 1964, many people would buy ?1sworth of petrol. But I didn't - I had a mini; the tank wasn't big enough!?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 06/08/2019  13:41  (GMT+00:00) To: Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices So expensive is fuel in Buckinghamshire that you can buy a quart!!
Barry.		


On 6 Aug 2019, at 09:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:




They charge more to encourage people like you and me to only put in enough to get us to the nearest Sainsbury?s.
Nick.
Sent from my iPad

On 5 Aug 2019, at 22:19, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:



I have just been 'up North' ie. beyond the M25, and on the way back to civilisation I had to refuel at Watford Gap motorway services as there was a huge delay coming up on the M1. The BP unleaded price was ?1.499/litre, ie. 90p. per gallon
 more expensive than off the M1! I remember years ago going to a petrol station that was one or two pence cheaper but 90p.! Lesson learned! Cheers, Dave

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk





-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Tue Aug  6 07:58:39 2019
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 13:58:39 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
In-Reply-To: <kp74j0elnve5530dtrohp3ve.1565096181409@email.android.com>
References: <kp74j0elnve5530dtrohp3ve.1565096181409@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <BB063C65-B134-4AA5-B179-40A070E19CBD@icloud.com>

By 1969 ?1's worth just filled the tank on a mini!
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 6 Aug 2019, at 13:56, vernon.dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> When I had my first car, in 1964, many people would buy ?1sworth of petrol. But I didn't - I had a mini; the tank wasn't big enough! 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: 06/08/2019 13:41 (GMT+00:00)
> To: Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com>
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices
> 
> So expensive is fuel in Buckinghamshire that you can buy a quart!!
> Barry.
> 
> 		<Petrolpump.jpeg>
> 
> 
> On 6 Aug 2019, at 09:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> They charge more to encourage people like you and me to only put in enough to get us to the nearest Sainsbury?s.
>> Nick.
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 5 Aug 2019, at 22:19, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have just been 'up North' ie. beyond the M25, and on the way back to civilisation I had to refuel at Watford Gap motorway services as there was a huge delay coming up on the M1. The BP unleaded price was ?1.499/litre, ie. 90p. per gallon more expensive than off the M1! I remember years ago going to a petrol station that was one or two pence cheaper but 90p.! Lesson learned! Cheers, Dave
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dave at davesound.co.uk  Tue Aug  6 07:58:42 2019
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 13:58:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
In-Reply-To: <ce6b1721-32d5-b932-1e62-1830c4656baa@btinternet.com>
References: <53E8D7540FA246F8BB2CC8CE51D7DD06@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
	<ce6b1721-32d5-b932-1e62-1830c4656baa@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <57df4ce0fbdave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <ce6b1721-32d5-b932-1e62-1830c4656baa at btinternet.com>,
   dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ...they were indeed! I was going to give up driving when it got to ?1 
> per gallon and give up drinking when it got to ?1 per pint! Silly me! 
> Cheers, hic, Dave

A school mate - slightly older than me- bought a 1937 Austin 7 in the
summer holidays. I helped him get it going. Must have been 1961. The tank
took about 5 gallons, and you could fill it with commercial petrol for a
quid.

-- 
*I have a degree in liberal arts -- do you want fries with that

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Aug  6 13:54:44 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 19:54:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices & Wood Norton
In-Reply-To: <D40DD52D-D47D-46E7-8D32-4513C2E99459@btinternet.com>
References: <87d183c4-524f-51ce-d84c-04ddb5c3a81a@btinternet.com>
	<VI1P192MB027100F739610FC8E024A905A7D50@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<D40DD52D-D47D-46E7-8D32-4513C2E99459@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5d49ccf4.1c69fb81.ba0a4.8914@mx.google.com>

When I acquired my first vehicle, one could buy two gallons and get change from a ten-bob note!
I had an Austin A35 van, which got me to Wood Norton and back, but used more oil than petrol!
At WN, if you recall, the first ten spaces on the driveway nearest the main building were supposedly reserved for admin and tutors. Returning from a weekend, most other spaces were full, so Mike McCarthy parked in one of the ?reserved? gaps.
At coffee break, the Major testily advised Mike that: Mr. McCarthy, your car?s in the top ten!? Mike?s pithy reply: ?Great, does it get gold hubcaps??
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Barry Bonner via Tech1
Sent: 06 August 2019 13:42
To: Nick Ware
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices

So expensive is fuel in Buckinghamshire that you can buy a quart!!
Barry.

		




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Wed Aug  7 04:54:36 2019
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (Vernon Dyer)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 10:54:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
In-Reply-To: <kp74j0elnve5530dtrohp3ve.1565096181409@email.android.com>
References: <kp74j0elnve5530dtrohp3ve.1565096181409@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <5C55FFA91136CDBC@rgout04.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk> (added by
	postmaster@btinternet.com)

PS ? just a thought about 4/11 per quart: that wouldn?t be for paraffin or something, would it?  It?s obviously pre-Feb ?71 and even by then petrol wouldn?t have risen to nearly a pound a gallon, if I remember correctly, and anyway was never sold by the quart. Any ideas, anyone?

Best wishes  .....  Vernon Dyer

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: vernon.dyer via Tech1
Sent: 06 August 2019 13:56
To: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices


When I had my first car, in 1964, many people would buy ?1sworth of petrol. But I didn't - I had a mini; the tank wasn't big enough!?


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Date: 06/08/2019 13:41 (GMT+00:00) 
To: Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com> 
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices 

So expensive is fuel in Buckinghamshire that you can buy a quart!!
Barry.

		

On 6 Aug 2019, at 09:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


They charge more to encourage people like you and me to only put in enough to get us to the nearest Sainsbury?s. 
Nick.
Sent from my iPad

On 5 Aug 2019, at 22:19, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
I have just been 'up North' ie. beyond the M25, and on the way back to civilisation I had to refuel at Watford Gap motorway services as there was a huge delay coming up on the M1. The BP unleaded price was ?1.499/litre, ie. 90p. per gallon more expensive than off the M1! I remember years ago going to a petrol station that was one or two pence cheaper but 90p.! Lesson learned! Cheers, Dave

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
-- 
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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


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From alawrance1 at me.com  Wed Aug  7 05:19:42 2019
From: alawrance1 at me.com (Alasdair Lawrance)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 11:19:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
In-Reply-To: <5C55FFA91136CDBC@rgout04.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk>
References: <kp74j0elnve5530dtrohp3ve.1565096181409@email.android.com>
	<5C55FFA91136CDBC@rgout04.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4DFC41DD-4CA1-4778-A6D3-F3270BA7ACDE@me.com>

On a trip to Cambodia/Vietnam/Thailand, it was quite common to see petrol in plastic ?pop? bottles.  The most common form of transport is a motor-bike or moped, and coupled with low wages, that was how it was sold.

It also reduced the possibility of theft, and, incidentally, big fires being started.


Alasdair Lawrance
alawrance1 at me.com

Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.










> On 7 Aug 2019, at 10:54, Vernon Dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> PS ? just a thought about 4/11 per quart: that wouldn?t be for paraffin or something, would it?  It?s obviously pre-Feb ?71 and even by then petrol wouldn?t have risen to nearly a pound a gallon, if I remember correctly, and anyway was never sold by the quart. Any ideas, anyone?
>  
> Best wishes  .....  Vernon Dyer
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
> From: vernon.dyer via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: 06 August 2019 13:56
> To: tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices
>  
>  
> When I had my first car, in 1964, many people would buy ?1sworth of petrol. But I didn't - I had a mini; the tank wasn't big enough! 
>  
>  
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
> Date: 06/08/2019 13:41 (GMT+00:00) 
> To: Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com> 
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices 
>  
> So expensive is fuel in Buckinghamshire that you can buy a quart!!
> Barry.
>  
>                                 
> 
>  
> On 6 Aug 2019, at 09:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
> 
> They charge more to encourage people like you and me to only put in enough to get us to the nearest Sainsbury?s. 
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 5 Aug 2019, at 22:19, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
> I have just been 'up North' ie. beyond the M25, and on the way back to civilisation I had to refuel at Watford Gap motorway services as there was a huge delay coming up on the M1. The BP unleaded price was ?1.499/litre, ie. 90p. per gallon more expensive than off the M1! I remember years ago going to a petrol station that was one or two pence cheaper but 90p.! Lesson learned! Cheers, Dave
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>  
>  
> <Petrolpump.jpeg>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From peter.neill at icloud.com  Wed Aug  7 06:02:39 2019
From: peter.neill at icloud.com (Peter Neill)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 13:02:39 +0200
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
In-Reply-To: <4DFC41DD-4CA1-4778-A6D3-F3270BA7ACDE@me.com>
References: <kp74j0elnve5530dtrohp3ve.1565096181409@email.android.com>
	<5C55FFA91136CDBC@rgout04.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk>
	<4DFC41DD-4CA1-4778-A6D3-F3270BA7ACDE@me.com>
Message-ID: <CCA4FDA4-CFBC-4FDC-9644-C8E71CA77ECA@icloud.com>

Also in Goa. 



Sent from my iPhone. Apologies for typos and autocorruptions. 

> On 7 Aug 2019, at 12:19, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> On a trip to Cambodia/Vietnam/Thailand, it was quite common to see petrol in plastic ?pop? bottles.  The most common form of transport is a motor-bike or moped, and coupled with low wages, that was how it was sold.
> 
> It also reduced the possibility of theft, and, incidentally, big fires being started.
> 
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> alawrance1 at me.com
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 7 Aug 2019, at 10:54, Vernon Dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> PS ? just a thought about 4/11 per quart: that wouldn?t be for paraffin or something, would it?  It?s obviously pre-Feb ?71 and even by then petrol wouldn?t have risen to nearly a pound a gallon, if I remember correctly, and anyway was never sold by the quart. Any ideas, anyone?
>>  
>> Best wishes  .....  Vernon Dyer
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: vernon.dyer via Tech1
>> Sent: 06 August 2019 13:56
>> To: tech1
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices
>>  
>>  
>> When I had my first car, in 1964, many people would buy ?1sworth of petrol. But I didn't - I had a mini; the tank wasn't big enough! 
>>  
>>  
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> Date: 06/08/2019 13:41 (GMT+00:00) 
>> To: Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com> 
>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices 
>>  
>> So expensive is fuel in Buckinghamshire that you can buy a quart!!
>> Barry.
>>  
>>                                 
>> 
>>  
>> On 6 Aug 2019, at 09:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> They charge more to encourage people like you and me to only put in enough to get us to the nearest Sainsbury?s. 
>> Nick.
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 5 Aug 2019, at 22:19, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> I have just been 'up North' ie. beyond the M25, and on the way back to civilisation I had to refuel at Watford Gap motorway services as there was a huge delay coming up on the M1. The BP unleaded price was ?1.499/litre, ie. 90p. per gallon more expensive than off the M1! I remember years ago going to a petrol station that was one or two pence cheaper but 90p.! Lesson learned! Cheers, Dave
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>  
>>  
>> <Petrolpump.jpeg>-- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave at davesound.co.uk  Wed Aug  7 05:02:28 2019
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2019 11:02:28 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
In-Reply-To: <5C55FFA91136CDBC@rgout04.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk>
References: <kp74j0elnve5530dtrohp3ve.1565096181409@email.android.com>
	<5C55FFA91136CDBC@rgout04.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk>
Message-ID: <57dfc0940fdave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <5C55FFA91136CDBC at rgout04.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk>,
   Vernon Dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> PS ? just a thought about 4/11 per quart: that wouldn?t be for paraffin
> or something, would it?  It?s obviously pre-Feb ?71 and even by then
> petrol wouldn?t have risen to nearly a pound a gallon, if I remember
> correctly, and anyway was never sold by the quart. Any ideas, anyone?

Minimum amount - from my scooter days - was 1/2 gallon.

-- 
*You're never too old to learn something stupid.

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Wed Aug  7 07:32:44 2019
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 13:32:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
In-Reply-To: <4DFC41DD-4CA1-4778-A6D3-F3270BA7ACDE@me.com>
References: <kp74j0elnve5530dtrohp3ve.1565096181409@email.android.com>
	<5C55FFA91136CDBC@rgout04.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk>
	<4DFC41DD-4CA1-4778-A6D3-F3270BA7ACDE@me.com>
Message-ID: <4F1E7A61-A5C0-4D4E-A63D-5BE8E307A21A@vincent68.plus.com>

Don't blame me. I voted Monster Raving Loony

John V



On 7 Aug 2019, at 11:19, Alasdair Lawrance via Tech1 wrote:

> On a trip to Cambodia/Vietnam/Thailand, it was quite common to see petrol in plastic ?pop? bottles.  The most common form of transport is a motor-bike or moped, and coupled with low wages, that was how it was sold.
> 
> It also reduced the possibility of theft, and, incidentally, big fires being started.
> 
> 
> Alasdair Lawrance
> alawrance1 at me.com
> 
> Don?t blame me, I voted Remain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 7 Aug 2019, at 10:54, Vernon Dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> PS ? just a thought about 4/11 per quart: that wouldn?t be for paraffin or something, would it?  It?s obviously pre-Feb ?71 and even by then petrol wouldn?t have risen to nearly a pound a gallon, if I remember correctly, and anyway was never sold by the quart. Any ideas, anyone?
>>  
>> Best wishes  .....  Vernon Dyer
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: vernon.dyer via Tech1
>> Sent: 06 August 2019 13:56
>> To: tech1
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices
>>  
>>  
>> When I had my first car, in 1964, many people would buy ?1sworth of petrol. But I didn't - I had a mini; the tank wasn't big enough! 
>>  
>>  
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
>> Date: 06/08/2019 13:41 (GMT+00:00) 
>> To: Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com> 
>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices 
>>  
>> So expensive is fuel in Buckinghamshire that you can buy a quart!!
>> Barry.
>>  
>>                                 
>> 
>>  
>> On 6 Aug 2019, at 09:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> They charge more to encourage people like you and me to only put in enough to get us to the nearest Sainsbury?s. 
>> Nick.
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 5 Aug 2019, at 22:19, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> I have just been 'up North' ie. beyond the M25, and on the way back to civilisation I had to refuel at Watford Gap motorway services as there was a huge delay coming up on the M1. The BP unleaded price was ?1.499/litre, ie. 90p. per gallon more expensive than off the M1! I remember years ago going to a petrol station that was one or two pence cheaper but 90p.! Lesson learned! Cheers, Dave
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>  
>>  
>> <Petrolpump.jpeg>-- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Aug  7 14:33:10 2019
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 20:33:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Holiday insurance
Message-ID: <526d1239-a310-bf5b-9b79-45c51accbb50@btinternet.com>

Here's a handy guide of the best companies for your particular 
situation! Good luck! Cheers, Dave
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Aug  7 14:42:07 2019
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 20:42:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Life ( and death)
Message-ID: <18d463d6-c4a3-9b4f-d197-37207df6c1d3@btinternet.com>

Today we have learnt of one new member of the extended family weighing 
in at 7lb.11 oz. and the death of one relative and the news of another 
distant relation on end-of-life support and all the time the world 
carries on regardless, talking about BREXIT! Cheers, Dave


From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Wed Aug  7 15:02:02 2019
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 21:02:02 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Life ( and death)
In-Reply-To: <18d463d6-c4a3-9b4f-d197-37207df6c1d3@btinternet.com>
References: <18d463d6-c4a3-9b4f-d197-37207df6c1d3@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <F769DED9-8B32-4B44-8AED-0973FEA6FA8D@icloud.com>

Congratulations, Commiserations and hope they are not in pain.
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 7 Aug 2019, at 20:42, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Today we have learnt of one new member of the extended family weighing in at 7lb.11 oz. and the death of one relative and the news of another distant relation on end-of-life support and all the time the world carries on regardless, talking about BREXIT! Cheers, Dave
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Wed Aug  7 16:01:29 2019
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 22:01:29 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Life ( and death)
In-Reply-To: <F769DED9-8B32-4B44-8AED-0973FEA6FA8D@icloud.com>
References: <18d463d6-c4a3-9b4f-d197-37207df6c1d3@btinternet.com>
	<F769DED9-8B32-4B44-8AED-0973FEA6FA8D@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <c8ff04c1-f9e0-9d82-e8ba-84c7269643e3@btinternet.com>

Thanks Graeme, difficult times at the same time as happy ones! 'Twas 
always thus! Cheers, Dave


From john at epi-centre.com  Wed Aug  7 17:25:21 2019
From: john at epi-centre.com (John Henshall)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 23:25:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tony Bowers
Message-ID: <40184836-9EBF-4CBE-866D-EDD7F747FFED@epi-centre.com>

Do any of you sound guys from the ?60s remember Tony Bowers? He was on crew 10. Lovely man.

He went to Bristol and, as far as I am aware, was killed on his motorbike on his way home one night just after his son/daughter had been born.

Does anyone have contact with his widow ? Jenny, I believe? I would like to contact her, if possible.

Thanx and regards
John Henshall






From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Aug  8 04:07:37 2019
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 10:07:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Tony Bowers
In-Reply-To: <40184836-9EBF-4CBE-866D-EDD7F747FFED@epi-centre.com>
References: <40184836-9EBF-4CBE-866D-EDD7F747FFED@epi-centre.com>
Message-ID: <B5E8F94E-B2E8-49E0-82D1-280970E98DE2@mac.com>

Hi John,

Yes indeed - I worked with Tony in Bristol many times before I did the opposite to him and came up to TVC. I had been I London for about six months, I suppose, when Des Browning rang me to say that Tony had been killed. It was believed that he?d been hit by, or collided with a lorry, which had then reversed over him before escaping the scene. I never heard that anybody had been charged. As you say, John, a lovely man with a sparkling career ahead of him. 

I think that John Adams, also formerly of TVC and a great friend of Tony?s, will be in contact with Jenny - I?ll ask him to contact you, or he may even have see this message. 

Mike G

> On 7 Aug 2019, at 23:25, John Henshall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Do any of you sound guys from the ?60s remember Tony Bowers? He was on crew 10. Lovely man.
> 
> He went to Bristol and, as far as I am aware, was killed on his motorbike on his way home one night just after his son/daughter had been born.
> 
> Does anyone have contact with his widow ? Jenny, I believe? I would like to contact her, if possible.
> 
> Thanx and regards
> John Henshall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Aug  8 04:09:07 2019
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 10:09:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Life ( and death)
In-Reply-To: <c8ff04c1-f9e0-9d82-e8ba-84c7269643e3@btinternet.com>
References: <18d463d6-c4a3-9b4f-d197-37207df6c1d3@btinternet.com>
	<F769DED9-8B32-4B44-8AED-0973FEA6FA8D@icloud.com>
	<c8ff04c1-f9e0-9d82-e8ba-84c7269643e3@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <7F2635F9-688B-447A-A101-E81441B83B49@mac.com>

Just keep taking the tablets - whilst you can!

Mike G

> On 7 Aug 2019, at 22:01, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Graeme, difficult times at the same time as happy ones! 'Twas always thus! Cheers, Dave
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From billjenkin67 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 05:55:11 2019
From: billjenkin67 at gmail.com (Bill Jenkin)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 11:55:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] GWR - Mike Bond
In-Reply-To: <9a522b8a-febe-d2c7-32c9-86ee043c965c@gmail.com>
References: <9a522b8a-febe-d2c7-32c9-86ee043c965c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001d54dd7$c088b5f0$419a21d0$@gmail.com>

By pure chance I happened to be in Paddington station when they had the naming ceremony for that train. Mike?s wife was there and a daughter. 

Unfortunately I didn?t really ever meet Mike because I never worked on his crew from the time I joined in January 1965 to when he left later on that year.

Bill Jenkin

 

From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of Alec Bray via Tech1
Sent: 05 August 2019 15:30
To: TechOps Forum
Subject: [Tech1] GWR - Mike Bond

 

Hi all,

Idly clicking through the web, I cam across this!  (hadn't known about this before)

 



-- 
 
Best Regards
 
Alec
 
Alec Bray
 
alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502
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From peter.fox at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Aug  8 06:44:09 2019
From: peter.fox at tiscali.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 13:44:09 +0200
Subject: [Tech1] Spitfire
Message-ID: <002E62C9-C75A-4EB3-839B-38D8635973A7@tiscali.co.uk>


The Silver Spitfire is on the first leg of its round the world trip. Its between Lossiemouth and Faroe at 12.45 BST 9000 feet and around 200mph. 

Peter Fox


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Aug  8 07:51:49 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 13:51:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Spitfire
In-Reply-To: <002E62C9-C75A-4EB3-839B-38D8635973A7@tiscali.co.uk>
References: <002E62C9-C75A-4EB3-839B-38D8635973A7@tiscali.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5d4c1ae4.1c69fb81.36ae3.0cca@mx.google.com>

This came in to me after a posting by Alec Bray ? I assume that the Silver Spitfire is not a locomotive?
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Peter Fox via Tech1
Sent: 08 August 2019 12:44
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Spitfire


The Silver Spitfire is on the first leg of its round the world trip. Its between Lossiemouth and Faroe at 12.45 BST 9000 feet and around 200mph. 

Peter Fox

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From mike.jdg.minchin at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 07:52:01 2019
From: mike.jdg.minchin at gmail.com (Mike)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 13:52:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] GWR - Mike Bond
In-Reply-To: <000001d54dd7$c088b5f0$419a21d0$@gmail.com>
References: <9a522b8a-febe-d2c7-32c9-86ee043c965c@gmail.com>
	<000001d54dd7$c088b5f0$419a21d0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <adea2f70-bc27-7c32-9408-74dfbf35f834@gmail.com>

I was on the Camera Pool in January 1965.? I was allocated to work with 
Mike Bond (Crew 7?) on the 23rd - the day my eldest was born, at 0105 in 
the morning.? I turned up in Riverside (?1) at 0930 looking very bleary, 
and Mike, on hearing why, said "You'd better have an Early, and get some 
sleep".? I pootled off, but grabbed my camera (which I'd had the night 
before) and went back to the hospital to get more pictures of Jo (and 
her mother!). Later, after he had retired, I was doing a little 
free-lance work on a film about Kaye Webb and Puffin Books, and Mike 
(and Paddington) was featured!? As ever, a gentleman, though I'm not 
sure he recognised me.

Mike

On 08/08/2019 11:55, Bill Jenkin via Tech1 wrote:
>
> By pure chance I happened to be in Paddington station when they had 
> the naming ceremony for that train. Mike?s wife was there and a daughter.
>
> Unfortunately I didn?t really ever meet Mike because I never worked on 
> his crew from the time I joined in January 1965 to when he left later 
> on that year.
>
> Bill Jenkin
>
> *From:*Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] *On Behalf Of *Alec 
> Bray via Tech1
> *Sent:* 05 August 2019 15:30
> *To:* TechOps Forum
> *Subject:* [Tech1] GWR - Mike Bond
>
> Hi all,
>
> Idly clicking through the web, I cam across this!? (hadn't known about 
> this before)
>
> -- 
> Best Regards
> Alec
> Alec Bray
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  <mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
> mob:??? 07789 561 346
> home:?? 0118 981 7502
>
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From peter.fox at tiscali.co.uk  Thu Aug  8 08:16:30 2019
From: peter.fox at tiscali.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 15:16:30 +0200
Subject: [Tech1] Spitfire
In-Reply-To: <5d4c1ae4.1c69fb81.36ae3.0cca@mx.google.com>
References: <002E62C9-C75A-4EB3-839B-38D8635973A7@tiscali.co.uk>
	<5d4c1ae4.1c69fb81.36ae3.0cca@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <7D8E016B-F4DD-469F-9C0A-FC8F43B8C45A@tiscali.co.uk>

No, Pat, The Silver Spitfire is a Mk IX Spitfire that has been restored by Boultbee Aviation specifically to attempt a circumnavigation. It was paint stripped and polished to ?demilitarise? it whilst celebrating the beauty of the design. Of course they do go on about its military heritage and world wide fame on their website but I think they want to emphasise the plane rather than it?s history, and perhaps to discourage Angela Merkel from having it shot down next year when it gets to Germany.
It appears to have an ADSB transmitter on board so it should be followable on FlightRadar24 by entering G-IRTY (or just girty) into the search bar, provided it?s switched on of course


Peter Fox

> On 8 Aug 2019, at 14:51, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
> 
> This came in to me after a posting by Alec Bray ? I assume that the Silver Spitfire is not a locomotive?
> Pat
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Peter Fox via Tech1
> Sent: 08 August 2019 12:44
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: [Tech1] Spitfire
>  
>  
> The Silver Spitfire is on the first leg of its round the world trip. Its between Lossiemouth and Faroe at 12.45 BST 9000 feet and around 200mph.
>  
> Peter Fox
>  
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>  
> 
> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
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From doug.prior at talktalk.net  Thu Aug  8 08:30:28 2019
From: doug.prior at talktalk.net (douglas prior)
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2019 14:30:28 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: Re:  Spitfire
In-Reply-To: <7D8E016B-F4DD-469F-9C0A-FC8F43B8C45A@tiscali.co.uk>
Message-ID: <c5fbbde5-fa45-48eb-813a-22f8fdb9602a@email.android.com>

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From billjenkin67 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 08:36:45 2019
From: billjenkin67 at gmail.com (Bill Jenkin)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 14:36:45 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] GWR - Mike Bond
In-Reply-To: <adea2f70-bc27-7c32-9408-74dfbf35f834@gmail.com>
References: <9a522b8a-febe-d2c7-32c9-86ee043c965c@gmail.com>
	<000001d54dd7$c088b5f0$419a21d0$@gmail.com>
	<adea2f70-bc27-7c32-9408-74dfbf35f834@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001801d54dee$52774100$f765c300$@gmail.com>

I think he was Senior Cameraman on Crew 17 in 1965.  Incidentally I have just found out that he didn?t leave the Beeb until April 1st 1966.

Bill

 

From: Mike [mailto:mike.jdg.minchin at gmail.com] 
Sent: 08 August 2019 13:52
To: Bill Jenkin; Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Cc: mike.jdg.minchin at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Tech1] GWR - Mike Bond

 

I was on the Camera Pool in January 1965.  I was allocated to work with Mike Bond (Crew 7?) on the 23rd - the day my eldest was born, at 0105 in the morning.  I turned up in Riverside (?1) at 0930 looking very bleary, and Mike, on hearing why, said "You'd better have an Early, and get some sleep".  I pootled off, but grabbed my camera (which I'd had the night before) and went back to the hospital to get more pictures of Jo (and her mother!).  Later, after he had retired, I was doing a little free-lance work on a film about Kaye Webb and Puffin Books, and Mike (and Paddington) was featured!  As ever, a gentleman, though I'm not sure he recognised me.

Mike

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 11:55:44 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 17:55:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
Message-ID: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>

When I joined, if you wanted a soft light you used a ten-light - till 
Bob Wright came along and pointed a quarter of a megawatt at a full 
height white cyc in TC1. That really? was a soft light.

Now that I'm lord of all I survey at the Woking Area U3A video 
production group I've been pointing redheads at reflectors, but I saw a 
design on YouTube for one using LEDS.

And so I present to you 600 LEDs dissipating 12A at 12V, 144 Watts.





The power supply gets too hot to touch, though each LED only gets warm. 
I'm not sure whether it will be bright enough though, as I haven't done 
a proper test yet. The black box at the rear bottom is my very last 
Maplin's box.

B
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From tonynuttall at me.com  Thu Aug  8 12:53:39 2019
From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall)
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2019 17:53:39 GMT
Subject: [Tech1] then and now LED LIGHTING for Skype from LYCO
Message-ID: <99576e5b-80ac-4f11-86f0-f4f681214898@me.com>

LED ?Ceiling panel ?18-00 from ?LYCO Lighting for "Skype" mounted on the wall behind my iMac. Not a bad soft light for Skype.
Good scatter from the back of the silver painted iMac! Corpuscular radiation & all that!

https://www.lyco.co.uk/indoor-lighting/commercial/led-panels.html

Sorry for ?the quality of my ancient i phone piccy!

Does not clutter up the desk top of my desk with other lights. Use the Angle poise for reading at my desk when the computer is not in use.

Tony N. in the Wilds of Cumbria




On 8 August 2019 at 17:56, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

When I joined, if you wanted a soft light you used a ten-light - till Bob Wright came along and pointed a quarter of a megawatt at a full height white cyc in TC1. That really? was a soft light.

Now that I'm lord of all I survey at the Woking Area U3A video production group I've been pointing redheads at reflectors, but I saw a design on YouTube for one using LEDS. 

And so I present to you 600 LEDs dissipating 12A at 12V, 144 Watts.





The power supply gets too hot to touch, though each LED only gets warm. I'm not sure whether it will be bright enough though, as I haven't done a proper test yet. The black box at the rear bottom is my very last Maplin's box.

B
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Aug  8 13:02:11 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 19:02:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>

I worked on a film at Shepperton (The Sender) and as the main set was an American hospital and lit practically by flourescents, the lighting cameraman used a bank of florescent tubes as fill. Only problem was that they caused horrendous interference with the radio mics. Luckily I had some Microns which were shielded with a metal casing, so worked well.
Pat



From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 08 August 2019 17:56
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] then and now

When I joined, if you wanted a soft light you used a ten-light - till Bob Wright came along and pointed a quarter of a megawatt at a full height white cyc in TC1. That really? was a soft light.

Now that I'm lord of all I survey at the Woking Area U3A video production group I've been pointing redheads at reflectors, but I saw a design on YouTube for one using LEDS. 

And so I present to you 600 LEDs dissipating 12A at 12V, 144 Watts.





The power supply gets too hot to touch, though each LED only gets warm. I'm not sure whether it will be bright enough though, as I haven't done a proper test yet. The black box at the rear bottom is my very last Maplin's box.

B



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Aug  8 14:25:40 2019
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 20:25:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <D1C61E90-8CC4-4814-BFB5-38E4F81D1527@mac.com>

When I arrived in Bristol in 1965 they were already using a locally made aluminium housing which served as the reflector for probably half a dozen fluorescent tubes as soft light in the news studio, because the air conditioning wasn?t up to a full rig of conventional lamps. The sparks carried a starter in his pocket and fired up as many tubes as the circumstances required. 

I have to confess I never saw anything wrong with the pictures, monochrome of course, and radio mics were never a requirement. 

Mike G

> On 8 Aug 2019, at 19:02, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I worked on a film at Shepperton (The Sender) and as the main set was an American hospital and lit practically by flourescents, the lighting cameraman used a bank of florescent tubes as fill. Only problem was that they caused horrendous interference with the radio mics. Luckily I had some Microns which were shielded with a metal casing, so worked well.
> Pat
>  
>  
>  
> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
> Sent: 08 August 2019 17:56
> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: [Tech1] then and now
>  
> When I joined, if you wanted a soft light you used a ten-light - till Bob Wright came along and pointed a quarter of a megawatt at a full height white cyc in TC1. That really  was a soft light.
> 
> Now that I'm lord of all I survey at the Woking Area U3A video production group I've been pointing redheads at reflectors, but I saw a design on YouTube for one using LEDS. 
> 
> And so I present to you 600 LEDs dissipating 12A at 12V, 144 Watts.
> 
> <soft light front small.jpg>
> 
> <soft light rear small.jpg>
> 
> The power supply gets too hot to touch, though each LED only gets warm. I'm not sure whether it will be bright enough though, as I haven't done a proper test yet. The black box at the rear bottom is my very last Maplin's box.
> 
> B
>  
> 
> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
> <soft light front small.jpg>
> <soft light rear small.jpg>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Aug  8 15:02:11 2019
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 21:02:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <D1C61E90-8CC4-4814-BFB5-38E4F81D1527@mac.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<D1C61E90-8CC4-4814-BFB5-38E4F81D1527@mac.com>
Message-ID: <AF750BDE-8C9D-422E-BC75-F05214DB59F1@me.com>

I did a series of Murder Most Horrid and one major location was on the umpteenth floor of  a Canary Wharf skyscraper with huge glass windows. The DOP and art dept didn?t want ND on the inside windows and there was no way of putting it on the outside. Therefore in order to match the light levels, the interior was lit with ten or fifteen 12k flicker free lamps. 

I expected that they would produce an audible whistle, so I took along a portable parametric equaliser to notch out the whistle, but when I tried it, the results were disappointing. Either the whistle remained, or too much HF was sucked out of the  audio to be acceptable.  I was crestfallen, but decided to record a wild track of the whistle and run it through a Fast Fourier transformation on my Mac to analyse the audio spectrum. 

The spectrum revealed that the whistle was actually three separate whistles  100Hz apart, at around 8 kHz. My hunch was that they were the fundamental and two sidelines generated from multiplying the mains frequency, which would explain the 100Hz spacing. I assumed that by using a multiple of the mains frequency as a clock, all the lamps would run at exactly the same frequency. 

I now knew what I had to deal with and as a check was able to emulate a very sharp triple band parametric notch filter on my Mac and proved that I could eliminate the fundamental and both side tones without unduly spoiling the dialogue. 

We shot the scenes without filtering and I later met with the dubbing mixer to show him what I had discovered. He was delighted because he too had experienced difficulties in notching out such whistles, but by using three very deep notches, the whistle could be removed very nicely. The exact frequency varied from shot to shot, presumably as the generator drifted, but the side tones were always exactly 100Hz either side of that main whistle. 

Alan Taylor


> On 8 Aug 2019, at 20:25, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> When I arrived in Bristol in 1965 they were already using a locally made aluminium housing which served as the reflector for probably half a dozen fluorescent tubes as soft light in the news studio, because the air conditioning wasn?t up to a full rig of conventional lamps. The sparks carried a starter in his pocket and fired up as many tubes as the circumstances required. 
> 
> I have to confess I never saw anything wrong with the pictures, monochrome of course, and radio mics were never a requirement. 
> 
> Mike G
> 
>> On 8 Aug 2019, at 19:02, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> I worked on a film at Shepperton (The Sender) and as the main set was an American hospital and lit practically by flourescents, the lighting cameraman used a bank of florescent tubes as fill. Only problem was that they caused horrendous interference with the radio mics. Luckily I had some Microns which were shielded with a metal casing, so worked well.
>> Pat
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
>> Sent: 08 August 2019 17:56
>> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> Subject: [Tech1] then and now
>>  
>> When I joined, if you wanted a soft light you used a ten-light - till Bob Wright came along and pointed a quarter of a megawatt at a full height white cyc in TC1. That really  was a soft light.
>> 
>> Now that I'm lord of all I survey at the Woking Area U3A video production group I've been pointing redheads at reflectors, but I saw a design on YouTube for one using LEDS. 
>> 
>> And so I present to you 600 LEDs dissipating 12A at 12V, 144 Watts.
>> 
>> <soft light front small.jpg>
>> 
>> <soft light rear small.jpg>
>> 
>> The power supply gets too hot to touch, though each LED only gets warm. I'm not sure whether it will be bright enough though, as I haven't done a proper test yet. The black box at the rear bottom is my very last Maplin's box.
>> 
>> B
>>  
>> 
>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
>> <soft light front small.jpg>
>> <soft light rear small.jpg>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  8 15:02:30 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 21:02:30 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <D1C61E90-8CC4-4814-BFB5-38E4F81D1527@mac.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<D1C61E90-8CC4-4814-BFB5-38E4F81D1527@mac.com>
Message-ID: <f1a488f7-1363-7281-f50b-f2fd09e236f4@ntlworld.com>

I seem to remember that when I went filming on 16mm the fluorescents 
always came out green for some reason

B



On 08/08/2019 20:25, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
> When I arrived in Bristol in 1965 they were already using a locally 
> made aluminium housing which served as the reflector for probably half 
> a dozen fluorescent tubes as soft light in the news studio, because 
> the air conditioning wasn?t up to a full rig of conventional lamps. 
> The sparks carried a starter in his pocket and fired up as many tubes 
> as the circumstances required.
>
> I have to confess I never saw anything wrong with the pictures, 
> monochrome of course, and radio mics were never a requirement.
>
> Mike G
>
> On 8 Aug 2019, at 19:02, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>> I worked on a film at Shepperton (The Sender) and as the main set was 
>> an American hospital and lit practically by flourescents, the 
>> lighting cameraman used a bank of florescent tubes as fill. Only 
>> problem was that they caused horrendous interference with the radio 
>> mics. Luckily I had some Microns which were shielded with a metal 
>> casing, so worked well.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> *From: *Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Sent: *08 August 2019 17:56
>> *To: *tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Subject: *[Tech1] then and now
>>
>> When I joined, if you wanted a soft light you used a ten-light - till 
>> Bob Wright came along and pointed a quarter of a megawatt at a full 
>> height white cyc in TC1. That really? was a soft light.
>>
>> Now that I'm lord of all I survey at the Woking Area U3A video 
>> production group I've been pointing redheads at reflectors, but I saw 
>> a design on YouTube for one using LEDS.
>>
>> And so I present to you 600 LEDs dissipating 12A at 12V, 144 Watts.
>>
>> <soft light front small.jpg>
>>
>> <soft light rear small.jpg>
>>
>> The power supply gets too hot to touch, though each LED only gets 
>> warm. I'm not sure whether it will be bright enough though, as I 
>> haven't done a proper test yet. The black box at the rear bottom is 
>> my very last Maplin's box.
>>
>> B
>>
>>
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>>
>>
>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>> <soft light front small.jpg>
>> <soft light rear small.jpg>
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

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From alanaudio at me.com  Thu Aug  8 15:13:19 2019
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 21:13:19 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <f1a488f7-1363-7281-f50b-f2fd09e236f4@ntlworld.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<D1C61E90-8CC4-4814-BFB5-38E4F81D1527@mac.com>
	<f1a488f7-1363-7281-f50b-f2fd09e236f4@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <D71A1321-8149-4F64-BE31-DFFB888BDBC7@me.com>

... and sodium lights became strange colours instead of orange when shot on 3 or 4 tube video cameras. I gather that the explanation concerned the narrow band of frequencies emitted by the bulb and the very high gain in the red channel. 

Alan Taylor 

> On 8 Aug 2019, at 21:02, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I seem to remember that when I went filming on 16mm the fluorescents always came out green for some reason
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
>> On 08/08/2019 20:25, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
>> When I arrived in Bristol in 1965 they were already using a locally made aluminium housing which served as the reflector for probably half a dozen fluorescent tubes as soft light in the news studio, because the air conditioning wasn?t up to a full rig of conventional lamps. The sparks carried a starter in his pocket and fired up as many tubes as the circumstances required. 
>> 
>> I have to confess I never saw anything wrong with the pictures, monochrome of course, and radio mics were never a requirement. 
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>> On 8 Aug 2019, at 19:02, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> I worked on a film at Shepperton (The Sender) and as the main set was an American hospital and lit practically by flourescents, the lighting cameraman used a bank of florescent tubes as fill. Only problem was that they caused horrendous interference with the radio mics. Luckily I had some Microns which were shielded with a metal casing, so worked well.
>>> Pat
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
>>> Sent: 08 August 2019 17:56
>>> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Subject: [Tech1] then and now
>>>  
>>> When I joined, if you wanted a soft light you used a ten-light - till Bob Wright came along and pointed a quarter of a megawatt at a full height white cyc in TC1. That really  was a soft light.
>>> 
>>> Now that I'm lord of all I survey at the Woking Area U3A video production group I've been pointing redheads at reflectors, but I saw a design on YouTube for one using LEDS. 
>>> 
>>> And so I present to you 600 LEDs dissipating 12A at 12V, 144 Watts.
>>> 
>>> <soft light front small.jpg>
>>> 
>>> <soft light rear small.jpg>
>>> 
>>> The power supply gets too hot to touch, though each LED only gets warm. I'm not sure whether it will be bright enough though, as I haven't done a proper test yet. The black box at the rear bottom is my very last Maplin's box.
>>> 
>>> B
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
>>> <soft light front small.jpg>
>>> <soft light rear small.jpg>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Aug  8 17:44:59 2019
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 23:44:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <f1a488f7-1363-7281-f50b-f2fd09e236f4@ntlworld.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<D1C61E90-8CC4-4814-BFB5-38E4F81D1527@mac.com>
	<f1a488f7-1363-7281-f50b-f2fd09e236f4@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <CFF61A08-9B80-4204-8D88-C7C217F6DC4E@mac.com>

I may have bored you with this before, but I was on a Bristol OB at Slimbridge when the lighting EM, Jolly Julius Jack Belasco might have wished for low energy lamps. 

For an interview with Peter Scott in his study/studio, he had placed one of the backlights right next to the enormous plate glass window which looked out onto the lake where Bewick?s swans overwintered. As you may have guessed, the glass cracked, but only down one side, so the curtain was hastily drawn across the damage before the great man entered the room. There was much fear and trembling in the camp about admitting what had happened before the interview took place, because it was totally verboten to go anywhere near the outside of the window until the Bewick?s swans had gone back to Siberia - quite some time ahead. 

Not sure who was given the task of relaying the bad news - probably the Stage Manager,  Jeff Sluggett, as I recall. 

Mike G

> On 8 Aug 2019, at 21:02, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I seem to remember that when I went filming on 16mm the fluorescents always came out green for some reason
> 
> B
> 
> 
> 
>> On 08/08/2019 20:25, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
>> When I arrived in Bristol in 1965 they were already using a locally made aluminium housing which served as the reflector for probably half a dozen fluorescent tubes as soft light in the news studio, because the air conditioning wasn?t up to a full rig of conventional lamps. The sparks carried a starter in his pocket and fired up as many tubes as the circumstances required. 
>> 
>> I have to confess I never saw anything wrong with the pictures, monochrome of course, and radio mics were never a requirement. 
>> 
>> Mike G
>> 
>> On 8 Aug 2019, at 19:02, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>>> I worked on a film at Shepperton (The Sender) and as the main set was an American hospital and lit practically by flourescents, the lighting cameraman used a bank of florescent tubes as fill. Only problem was that they caused horrendous interference with the radio mics. Luckily I had some Microns which were shielded with a metal casing, so worked well.
>>> Pat
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
>>> Sent: 08 August 2019 17:56
>>> To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> Subject: [Tech1] then and now
>>>  
>>> When I joined, if you wanted a soft light you used a ten-light - till Bob Wright came along and pointed a quarter of a megawatt at a full height white cyc in TC1. That really  was a soft light.
>>> 
>>> Now that I'm lord of all I survey at the Woking Area U3A video production group I've been pointing redheads at reflectors, but I saw a design on YouTube for one using LEDS. 
>>> 
>>> And so I present to you 600 LEDs dissipating 12A at 12V, 144 Watts.
>>> 
>>> <soft light front small.jpg>
>>> 
>>> <soft light rear small.jpg>
>>> 
>>> The power supply gets too hot to touch, though each LED only gets warm. I'm not sure whether it will be bright enough though, as I haven't done a proper test yet. The black box at the rear bottom is my very last Maplin's box.
>>> 
>>> B
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
>>> <soft light front small.jpg>
>>> <soft light rear small.jpg>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Thu Aug  8 17:51:48 2019
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer)
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2019 23:51:48 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
Message-ID: <h1ll2eiygmaj09u4mgufnlq7.1565304708849@email.android.com>

Nice one, Geoff. Is there anything your diaries CAN'T tell you??Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Geoff Fletcher <geoffletch at gmail.com> Date: 07/08/2019  20:10  (GMT+00:00) To: Vernon Dyer <vernon.dyer at btinternet.com> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices Checked my diaries. On 1 Jan 1966 I bought petrol at 5/5 (27p) a gallon, and a pint of oil st 2/9 (14p). On 31 December 1969 I bought petrol at 6,/9 (34p) a gallon and a pint of oil for 3/3 (16p). Prior to that, I can remember buying 4 gallons of petrol and getting change from ?1 when I first started driving in 1963.Geoff FOn Wed, 7 Aug 2019 at 19:11, Geoff Fletcher <geoffletch at gmail.com> wrote:Hi Verne - I have fuel prices recorded in my diaries. I will look them up when I get home and give some definite figures for the 1960s.Geoff FOn Wed, 7 Aug 2019 at 10:54, Vernon Dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:PS ? just a thought about 4/11 per quart: that wouldn?t be for paraffin or something, would it?? It?s obviously pre-Feb ?71 and even by then petrol wouldn?t have risen to nearly a pound a gallon, if I remember correctly, and anyway was never sold by the quart. Any ideas, anyone??Best wishes? .....? Vernon Dyer?Sent from Mail for Windows 10?From: vernon.dyer via Tech1Sent: 06 August 2019 13:56To: tech1Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices??When I had my first car, in 1964, many people would buy ?1sworth of petrol. But I didn't - I had a mini; the tank wasn't big enough!???Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 06/08/2019 13:41 (GMT+00:00) To: Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices ?So expensive is fuel in Buckinghamshire that you can buy a quart!!Barry.???????????????????????????????? ?On 6 Aug 2019, at 09:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:They charge more to encourage people like you and me to only put in enough to get us to the nearest Sainsbury?s. Nick.Sent from my iPadOn 5 Aug 2019, at 22:19, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:I have just been 'up North' ie. beyond the M25, and on the way back to civilisation I had to refuel at Watford Gap motorway services as there was a huge delay coming up on the M1. The BP unleaded price was ?1.499/litre, ie. 90p. per gallon more expensive than off the M1! I remember years ago going to a petrol station that was one or two pence cheaper but 90p.! Lesson learned! Cheers, Dave-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk??-- 
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From mibridge at mac.com  Thu Aug  8 17:57:45 2019
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 23:57:45 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
In-Reply-To: <h1ll2eiygmaj09u4mgufnlq7.1565304708849@email.android.com>
References: <h1ll2eiygmaj09u4mgufnlq7.1565304708849@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <D1BC7AEB-A63C-4B67-8A52-17FA38AE7FA1@mac.com>

Yep ~ same here ~ at the tender age of seventeen in 1963, 4 gallons was my usual purchase, with change from one of those green crinkly things and it seemed to stay that way for ages. In 1965, beer in the BBC Bristol club was one and eight a pint ~ ten pence halfpenny for a half.

Mike G

> On 8 Aug 2019, at 23:51, vernon.dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Nice one, Geoff. Is there anything your diaries CAN'T tell you? 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Geoff Fletcher <geoffletch at gmail.com>
> Date: 07/08/2019 20:10 (GMT+00:00)
> To: Vernon Dyer <vernon.dyer at btinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices
> 
> Checked my diaries. On 1 Jan 1966 I bought petrol at 5/5 (27p) a gallon, and a pint of oil st 2/9 (14p). On 31 December 1969 I bought petrol at 6,/9 (34p) a gallon and a pint of oil for 3/3 (16p). Prior to that, I can remember buying 4 gallons of petrol and getting change from ?1 when I first started driving in 1963.
> Geoff F
> 
> On Wed, 7 Aug 2019 at 19:11, Geoff Fletcher <geoffletch at gmail.com <mailto:geoffletch at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi Verne - I have fuel prices recorded in my diaries. I will look them up when I get home and give some definite figures for the 1960s.
> Geoff F
> 
> On Wed, 7 Aug 2019 at 10:54, Vernon Dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> PS ? just a thought about 4/11 per quart: that wouldn?t be for paraffin or something, would it?  It?s obviously pre-Feb ?71 and even by then petrol wouldn?t have risen to nearly a pound a gallon, if I remember correctly, and anyway was never sold by the quart. Any ideas, anyone?
> 
>  
> 
> Best wishes  .....  Vernon Dyer
> 
>  
> 
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
> 
>  
> 
> From: vernon.dyer via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: 06 August 2019 13:56
> To: tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> When I had my first car, in 1964, many people would buy ?1sworth of petrol. But I didn't - I had a mini; the tank wasn't big enough! 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> 
> -------- Original message --------
> 
> From: Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>>
> 
> Date: 06/08/2019 13:41 (GMT+00:00)
> 
> To: Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com <mailto:waresound at msn.com>>
> 
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices
> 
>  
> 
> So expensive is fuel in Buckinghamshire that you can buy a quart!!
> 
> Barry.
> 
>  
> 
>                                 
> 
>  
> 
> On 6 Aug 2019, at 09:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They charge more to encourage people like you and me to only put in enough to get us to the nearest Sainsbury?s.
> 
> Nick.
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> 
> On 5 Aug 2019, at 22:19, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
> 
> I have just been 'up North' ie. beyond the M25, and on the way back to civilisation I had to refuel at Watford Gap motorway services as there was a huge delay coming up on the M1. The BP unleaded price was ?1.499/litre, ie. 90p. per gallon more expensive than off the M1! I remember years ago going to a petrol station that was one or two pence cheaper but 90p.! Lesson learned! Cheers, Dave
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
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> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From geoffletch at gmail.com  Fri Aug  9 02:09:35 2019
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 08:09:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices
In-Reply-To: <h1ll2eiygmaj09u4mgufnlq7.1565304708849@email.android.com>
References: <h1ll2eiygmaj09u4mgufnlq7.1565304708849@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB90YR8gh_8mpbey4hfHD0O=Z48PZgPWKuhUb8QgUpC3-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Unfortunately there are some annoying info gaps in them Verne - but they
paint a word picture of our happy BBC TV life and times back in the 1960s.
Geoff F

On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 at 23:52, vernon.dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Nice one, Geoff. Is there anything your diaries CAN'T tell you?
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Geoff Fletcher <geoffletch at gmail.com>
> Date: 07/08/2019 20:10 (GMT+00:00)
> To: Vernon Dyer <vernon.dyer at btinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices
>
> Checked my diaries. On 1 Jan 1966 I bought petrol at 5/5 (27p) a gallon,
> and a pint of oil st 2/9 (14p). On 31 December 1969 I bought petrol at 6,/9
> (34p) a gallon and a pint of oil for 3/3 (16p). Prior to that, I can
> remember buying 4 gallons of petrol and getting change from ?1 when I first
> started driving in 1963.
> Geoff F
>
> On Wed, 7 Aug 2019 at 19:11, Geoff Fletcher <geoffletch at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Verne - I have fuel prices recorded in my diaries. I will look them up
>> when I get home and give some definite figures for the 1960s.
>> Geoff F
>>
>> On Wed, 7 Aug 2019 at 10:54, Vernon Dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> PS ? just a thought about 4/11 per quart: that wouldn?t be for paraffin
>>> or something, would it?  It?s obviously pre-Feb ?71 and even by then petrol
>>> wouldn?t have risen to nearly a pound a gallon, if I remember correctly,
>>> and anyway was never sold by the quart. Any ideas, anyone?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best wishes  .....  Vernon Dyer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *vernon.dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> *Sent: *06 August 2019 13:56
>>> *To: *tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When I had my first car, in 1964, many people would buy ?1sworth of
>>> petrol. But I didn't - I had a mini; the tank wasn't big enough!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>
>>> From: Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>
>>> Date: 06/08/2019 13:41 (GMT+00:00)
>>>
>>> To: Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com>
>>>
>>> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So expensive is fuel in Buckinghamshire that you can buy a quart!!
>>>
>>> *Barry.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 Aug 2019, at 09:21, Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> They charge more to encourage people like you and me to only put in
>>> enough to get us to the nearest Sainsbury?s.
>>>
>>> Nick.
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5 Aug 2019, at 22:19, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have just been 'up North' ie. beyond the M25, and on the way back to
>>> civilisation I had to refuel at Watford Gap motorway services as there was
>>> a huge delay coming up on the M1. The BP unleaded price was ?1.499/litre,
>>> ie. 90p. per gallon more expensive than off the M1! I remember years ago
>>> going to a petrol station that was one or two pence cheaper but 90p.!
>>> Lesson learned! Cheers, Dave
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From dave at davesound.co.uk  Fri Aug  9 08:18:18 2019
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2019 14:18:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446 at mx.google.com>,
   patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I worked on a film at Shepperton (The Sender) and as the main set was an
> American hospital and lit practically by flourescents, the lighting
> cameraman used a bank of florescent tubes as fill. Only problem was that
> they caused horrendous interference with the radio mics. Luckily I had
> some Microns which were shielded with a metal casing, so worked well.

The Bill sets were all lit by practical fluorescents - so from the 80s.
Later on, they were all changed to units with individual dimmers. As some
lighting directors removed some of the tubes to lower the level. Which
wasn't ideal, as they weren't designed to be opened up perhaps several
times a day, and got broken.     

So changed from ordinary 50Hz types to high frequency ballasts, which are
more easy to dim. And we rarely used cabled mics on The Bill - the poles
had a Micron radio link from the very start. And on the live ones,
everyone had a personal mic all picked up from anywhere on the set with
central aerials. And never a problem with the florries producing
interference.   


I have dimmable high frequency ballasts on the lighting under my kitchen
cupboards. The actual control being a simple pot wired back to the
ballast. Unlike tungsten, dimming them saves the properional amount of
power consumption - and these tend to get left on as a 'someone is at
home' light when out. This dates to well before LED days - but I'm still
not convinced any LED yet gives the quality of light I want.

-- 
*I want it all and I want it delivered

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From dave at davesound.co.uk  Fri Aug  9 08:20:57 2019
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2019 14:20:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <f1a488f7-1363-7281-f50b-f2fd09e236f4@ntlworld.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<D1C61E90-8CC4-4814-BFB5-38E4F81D1527@mac.com>
	<f1a488f7-1363-7281-f50b-f2fd09e236f4@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <57e0da6c9adave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <f1a488f7-1363-7281-f50b-f2fd09e236f4 at ntlworld.com>,
   Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> I seem to remember that when I went filming on 16mm the fluorescents 
> always came out green for some reason

You really need special tubes for filming, etc. Much more expensive and
lower light levels. The common white and warm white being very much a
compromise.

-- 
*I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Aug  9 09:57:05 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 15:57:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <57e0da6c9adave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<D1C61E90-8CC4-4814-BFB5-38E4F81D1527@mac.com>
	<f1a488f7-1363-7281-f50b-f2fd09e236f4@ntlworld.com>
	<57e0da6c9adave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <e616e7de-c7ca-c171-9b5a-af0b3e9f9a54@ntlworld.com>

Indeed, ok for drama, not so ok when you walk into someone's office for 
a quick interview

B



On 09/08/2019 14:20, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> In article <f1a488f7-1363-7281-f50b-f2fd09e236f4 at ntlworld.com>,
>     Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> I seem to remember that when I went filming on 16mm the fluorescents
>> always came out green for some reason
> You really need special tubes for filming, etc. Much more expensive and
> lower light levels. The common white and warm white being very much a
> compromise.
>

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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Fri Aug  9 10:31:02 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 16:31:02 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <83c8264f-ea8f-5ba9-8de4-05e29a8be4e3@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 09/08/2019 14:18, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> ..... but I'm still
> not convinced any LED yet gives the quality of light I want.


There isn't really any difference great between fluorescents and white 
LEDs. Both use short wavelength light - UV for a fluoro, usually blue 
for an LED - and make a phosphor fluoresce with longer wavelength 
colours that give a similar effect to a classic hot body spectrum. 
Sometimes a yellow filter coating is added to make the the light "warmer".

Neither light source can manage a continuous spectrum, so some colours 
don't get rendered correctly, which is why the light doesn't please. 
However LEDs have improved enormously compared to fluorescents and 
usually manage a far better Colour Rendering Index. That is partly 
because you only need a very small amount of phosphor for the LED, as 
opposed to many square cms for a fluoro.

The modern "warm white" or "very warm white" LED - and particularly the 
fake filament type - give very attractive light, that can be dimmed down 
to ~5% if required, and with a CRI of >80.

Try one;}

Chris Woolf


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From waresound at msn.com  Fri Aug  9 11:39:41 2019
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 16:39:41 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>,
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB027110061BF9206E84B6A774A7D60@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Interference on radio mics from fluorescents was a problem that pretty much went away with the move from VHF to UHF and diversity receivers. I don?t remember ever seeing a pro radio mic Tx or Rx that didn?t have a metal housing. In any event, it probably wouldn?t have made a lot of difference as the metal casing isn?t usually grounded. More likely, the interference was aerial borne, or down the unbalanced mic lead (acting as an aerial). Receivers in those far off days were less frequency selective, i.e. more receptive to RF harmonics and spurious adjacent channel shash, and unless in a fixed installation, unlikely to be grounded either. We progressed and moved on, and now 80 or more radio mics plus IEMs all working perfectly on a Talent show is not unusual, despite a massive amount of flashing lights of various sorts.
Nick.

Sent from my iPad

On 9 Aug 2019, at 14:22, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

In article <5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446 at mx.google.com<mailto:5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446 at mx.google.com>>,
  patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
I worked on a film at Shepperton (The Sender) and as the main set was an
American hospital and lit practically by flourescents, the lighting
cameraman used a bank of florescent tubes as fill. Only problem was that
they caused horrendous interference with the radio mics. Luckily I had
some Microns which were shielded with a metal casing, so worked well.

The Bill sets were all lit by practical fluorescents - so from the 80s.
Later on, they were all changed to units with individual dimmers. As some
lighting directors removed some of the tubes to lower the level. Which
wasn't ideal, as they weren't designed to be opened up perhaps several
times a day, and got broken.

So changed from ordinary 50Hz types to high frequency ballasts, which are
more easy to dim. And we rarely used cabled mics on The Bill - the poles
had a Micron radio link from the very start. And on the live ones,
everyone had a personal mic all picked up from anywhere on the set with
central aerials. And never a problem with the florries producing
interference.


I have dimmable high frequency ballasts on the lighting under my kitchen
cupboards. The actual control being a simple pot wired back to the
ballast. Unlike tungsten, dimming them saves the properional amount of
power consumption - and these tend to get left on as a 'someone is at
home' light when out. This dates to well before LED days - but I'm still
not convinced any LED yet gives the quality of light I want.

--
*I want it all and I want it delivered

   Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk<mailto:dave at davesound.co.uk>     London SW 12


--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Aug  9 15:38:43 2019
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 21:38:43 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Life & Death part 2
Message-ID: <b6d97564-2000-e48f-0f01-a3e8c5152678@btinternet.com>

So, (in keeping with modern trends!) in our joint families this week we 
have had two deaths, one birth, and two grandchildren moving into their 
new homes! I can't wait to see what next week brings! Cheers, Dave


From dave at davesound.co.uk  Sat Aug 10 06:05:50 2019
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:05:50 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <83c8264f-ea8f-5ba9-8de4-05e29a8be4e3@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<83c8264f-ea8f-5ba9-8de4-05e29a8be4e3@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <57e151e3badave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <83c8264f-ea8f-5ba9-8de4-05e29a8be4e3 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
   Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> On 09/08/2019 14:18, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> > ..... but I'm still
> > not convinced any LED yet gives the quality of light I want.


> There isn't really any difference great between fluorescents and white
> LEDs. Both use short wavelength light - UV for a fluoro, usually blue
> for an LED - and make a phosphor fluoresce with longer wavelength
> colours that give a similar effect to a classic hot body spectrum.
> Sometimes a yellow filter coating is added to make the the light
> "warmer".

Think you must be referring to very basic florrie tubes. Better ones use a
tri-phosphor coating.  

> Neither light source can manage a continuous spectrum, so some colours 
> don't get rendered correctly, which is why the light doesn't please. 
> However LEDs have improved enormously compared to fluorescents and 
> usually manage a far better Colour Rendering Index. That is partly 
> because you only need a very small amount of phosphor for the LED, as 
> opposed to many square cms for a fluoro.

> The modern "warm white" or "very warm white" LED - and particularly the 
> fake filament type - give very attractive light, that can be dimmed down 
> to ~5% if required, and with a CRI of >80.

I do have warm white LEDs in the living room with a suitable dimmer -
purely as working light. All other lighting curcuits there - used when
relaxing - are still tungsten.  

> Try one;}

> Chris Woolf


> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus

-- 
*No sentence fragments *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Aug 10 06:52:57 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 12:52:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <57e151e3badave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<83c8264f-ea8f-5ba9-8de4-05e29a8be4e3@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e151e3badave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <363a3a63-f1ed-6096-bc74-8e0c40d7021b@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 10/08/2019 12:05, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
>
>> There isn't really any difference great between fluorescents and white
>> LEDs. Both use short wavelength light - UV for a fluoro, usually blue
>> for an LED - and make a phosphor fluoresce with longer wavelength
>> colours ....
> Think you must be referring to very basic florrie tubes. Better ones use a
> tri-phosphor coating.

Whether halophosphate or triphosphor the spectra are still primarily 
discontinuous. The latter give a better theoretical? CRI (at greater 
expense), though it still has a lot of holes. The greatest problem is 
where an object has a narrow reflectance spectrum which doesn't fit well 
with the narrow transmission bands of the phosphors. So although a white 
looks good to our eyes, which have broadband colour receptors, these 
particular objects have an incorrect colour and luminance compared to 
continuous spectra illumination.

LEDs can benefit from similarly well-chosen phosphors, but need only a 
few mg as opposed to a long tubes-worth.

> I do have warm white LEDs in the living room with a suitable dimmer -
> purely as working light. All other lighting curcuits there - used when
> relaxing - are still tungsten.

AH! it is a rich man who can afford to run tungsten nowadays;}

Chris Woolf


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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Aug 10 08:04:51 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 14:04:51 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] FW: Privately owned cars should be BANNED by 2030 says pro
 Corbyn thinktank
In-Reply-To: <a5881fc0.EAAAAFQQ98sAAAAAAAAAAGtBDEYAARpc9MEAAAAAAAfCtwBdToFY@mailjet.com>
References: <a5881fc0.EAAAAFQQ98sAAAAAAAAAAGtBDEYAARpc9MEAAAAAAAfCtwBdToFY@mailjet.com>
Message-ID: <5d4ec0f3.1c69fb81.186f4.0233@mx.google.com>

Here?s something to get apoplectic about!
(Petrol Prices monitor the cheapest fuel within a 5km radius of your home ?
 free, and quite useful)
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: PetrolPrices.com
Sent: 10 August 2019 09:33
To: pat.heigham at amps.net
Subject: Privately owned cars should be BANNED by 2030 says pro Corbyn thinktank

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Newsletter edition: 8th August 2019



Privately owned cars should be BANNED by 2030 says pro Corbyn think tank 







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Want to know more about our editorial code? See here
Delivered by PetrolPrices.com Limited. Company Registration No: 08995126. Registered Office: Manor Coach House, Church Hill, Aldershot, Hampshire, GU12 4RQ







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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Aug 10 09:01:04 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:01:04 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB027110061BF9206E84B6A774A7D60@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>,
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027110061BF9206E84B6A774A7D60@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <5d4ece20.1c69fb81.1518f.e00e@mx.google.com>

Yep, things have moved on ? Nick,
At the time, 1982, Tony Dawe?s Audios were heavily affected, but my Microns were clean.
As far as I remember, both makes used a TX trailing wire aerial, but the mic input lead could have been
unbalanced. The Microns had a case that encompassed the bottom of the TX ? Audios had a plastic base to contain the battery, so I reckoned that they were not fully screened?
I saw ?42nd Street? Theatre Royal, Drury Lane, around 10 times (it was that good!) and discovered that
there were 84 radio mics in use ? some mikes were at calf position down the tap dancers legs, under the tights.
I guess the desk was somewhat large!
One wonders at the proximity of another theatre ? ?Mamma Mia? was next door.

I frequently suffer a dream nightmare, where I?m on a job, then discover I have no spare batteries for the Radios!
Panic! It?s a relief to wake up!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: 09 August 2019 17:39
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] then and now

Interference on radio mics from fluorescents was a problem that pretty much went away with the move from VHF to UHF and diversity receivers. I don?t remember ever seeing a pro radio mic Tx or Rx that didn?t have a metal housing. In any event, it probably wouldn?t have made a lot of difference as the metal casing isn?t usually grounded. More likely, the interference was aerial borne, or down the unbalanced mic lead (acting as an aerial). Receivers in those far off days were less frequency selective, i.e. more receptive to RF harmonics and spurious adjacent channel shash, and unless in a fixed installation, unlikely to be grounded either. We progressed and moved on, and now 80 or more radio mics plus IEMs all working perfectly on a Talent show is not unusual, despite a massive amount of flashing lights of various sorts. 
Nick.
Sent from my iPad
??patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

I worked on a film at Shepperton (The Sender) and as the main set was an
American hospital and lit practically by flourescents, the lighting
cameraman used a bank of florescent tubes as fill. Only problem was that
they caused horrendous interference with the radio mics. Luckily I had
some Microns which were shielded with a metal casing, so worked well.







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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Aug 10 10:56:13 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 16:56:13 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <5d4ece20.1c69fb81.1518f.e00e@mx.google.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027110061BF9206E84B6A774A7D60@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5d4ece20.1c69fb81.1518f.e00e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <2410cb3e-1ec7-f809-9c7f-cc92b2e38172@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 10/08/2019 15:01, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
> ... but the mic input lead could have been
>
> unbalanced. The Microns had a case that encompassed the bottom of the 
> TX ? Audios had a plastic base to contain the battery, so I reckoned 
> that they were not fully screened?
>
>
There's a great belief in "screening", and it isn't always justified. 
Certainly Faraday cages are excellent devices, and you wouldn't want to 
be without them, but looking at the external structure of a radio mic 
and trying to gauge the level of screening from that isn't helpful.

For a start the real screening of all these devices is normally 
accomplished by very tight-fitting internal screens - the need to avoid 
even the tiny cracks necessary to make a battery housing open and close 
means that relying on the outer shell to do the work is little use.

Radio mics cannot be grounded in any conventional sense so an antenna 
cannot have a "ground" to "oppose" it. Generally the case and the screen 
of the mic lead acta as a nominal "ground" and form a sort-of dipole 
with the actual antenna. These had to be trailing wires for the longer 
VHF wavelengths, but can be the nice little short stub for UHF.

Personal electrets mic are almost universally unbalanced. Unless they 
were large enough to use quite complex electronic circuitry they have to 
rely on a simple single FET impedance converter. That means that the 
connection to the TX is also unbalanced, and any signal induced in the 
screen of the lead cannot be excluded from the audio circuit - noise 
currents are inevitably connected into the audio.? The filtering of both 
RF and extreme LF noise is critical, but ~can't~ rely on simple screening.

That radios are as immune as they are noise sources is amazing, but to 
understand how they do it requires a ~very~ deep knowledge of their 
intimate circuitry;}

Chris Woolf



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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sat Aug 10 16:03:26 2019
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:03:26 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Thrift
Message-ID: <62a1aa07-0b55-9d4f-e389-dfe0b7b87673@btinternet.com>

Do you realise that from the address page of 'Prospero' you can get 3 x 
A6 notepad size sheets and one 7x10, and from the envelope you get 
extract 7 x A6 notepad size pages! Cheers, Dave PS. Not that I am mean 
in any way!


From mibridge at mac.com  Sat Aug 10 16:44:21 2019
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 22:44:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Thrift
In-Reply-To: <62a1aa07-0b55-9d4f-e389-dfe0b7b87673@btinternet.com>
References: <62a1aa07-0b55-9d4f-e389-dfe0b7b87673@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <7C64A7D9-EC5F-4820-A429-4DD85817DD6B@mac.com>

I take it you use these in the privy at the bottom of the garden, Dave!

Mike G



> On 10 Aug 2019, at 22:03, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Do you realise that from the address page of 'Prospero' you can get 3 x A6 notepad size sheets and one 7x10, and from the envelope you get extract 7 x A6 notepad size pages! Cheers, Dave PS. Not that I am mean in any way!
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From waresound at msn.com  Sun Aug 11 02:38:56 2019
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 07:38:56 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Thrift
In-Reply-To: <62a1aa07-0b55-9d4f-e389-dfe0b7b87673@btinternet.com>
References: <62a1aa07-0b55-9d4f-e389-dfe0b7b87673@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271E97785B9C0753DDCA2EEA7D00@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

My late F-in-L used to collect up all the screwed up scraps of Christmas wrapping paper and flatten them out carefully so that he could sellotape the random patterned bits together to use next year. And if it was tied with string, that would be lots of scraps that he?d tied end to end to make a bit long enough.
That?s thrift!
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad

On 10 Aug 2019, at 22:07, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

Do you realise that from the address page of 'Prospero' you can get 3 x A6 notepad size sheets and one 7x10, and from the envelope you get extract 7 x A6 notepad size pages! Cheers, Dave PS. Not that I am mean in any way!

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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sun Aug 11 02:43:22 2019
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 08:43:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fw: Anyone affected by yesterday's power cut?
Message-ID: <ED91640C3DCA4F21A40AF0575DCF9C8F@Gigabyte>

For the techies amongst this group!

This was posted by one of my old BH mates and very cleverly shows the sudden ?out of limits? frequency drop before the power cut.
So the stories of the grid about to crash may have been right?

Takes one back to OB days of never trying to run up the standby generator in sync with mains just before the OB. And of course that Christmas when I was in BH when they tried to run up the generators in sync for the Queen?s Broadcast but got it wrong and BH tried to drive Battersea. And of course similar when she came to open something at BH.

All good stories eh?

Mike

From: Tony Hosking 

I just knocked up a graph of the grid frequency yesterday - no wonder the auto load-shedding kicked in!







And it seems many of the stranded electric trains were down to their complex control systems going into lock-down when the supply failed 'oddly'.  A techie has to restart them because they think they have a fault.  Price of progress?

Tony H.



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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Sun Aug 11 04:30:37 2019
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2019 10:30:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fw: Anyone affected by yesterday's power cut?
In-Reply-To: <ED91640C3DCA4F21A40AF0575DCF9C8F@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <6mljdk9hhd011ds01eokuqod.1565515837321@pgtmedia.co.uk>

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 12 05:01:58 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 11:01:58 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <2410cb3e-1ec7-f809-9c7f-cc92b2e38172@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027110061BF9206E84B6A774A7D60@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5d4ece20.1c69fb81.1518f.e00e@mx.google.com>
	<2410cb3e-1ec7-f809-9c7f-cc92b2e38172@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <73337345-e338-0c11-4d05-581992943b52@gmail.com>

I've just discovered the lifetime of a Rycote Softie.

I've had a Sennheiser K6/ME66/Softie since 1996, as recommended by Nigel 
at Richmond Film Services, originally used on Morning Surgery and been 
around a bit since then. I haven't used it much lately, but now my U3A 
group includes a boom operator (gives someone something useful to do), 
so here I go again.

This morning I picked it up and the Softie seemed strangely floppy. I 
pulled it off of the microphone and all the black plastic inside fell 
out in tiny bits, mess everywhere. Well, it's done it's share - been a 
pioneer in various projects. New one from Amazon on its way.

B


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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Aug 12 05:10:54 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 11:10:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <73337345-e338-0c11-4d05-581992943b52@gmail.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027110061BF9206E84B6A774A7D60@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5d4ece20.1c69fb81.1518f.e00e@mx.google.com>
	<2410cb3e-1ec7-f809-9c7f-cc92b2e38172@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<73337345-e338-0c11-4d05-581992943b52@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d513b2d.1c69fb81.ba76e.e3a2@mx.google.com>

Maybe Viagra might work on a ?softie?!

Possibly a chat with Simon Davies at Rycote could have obtained a replacement at ?mates rates?.
I always had an excellent relationship with them.

I?ve found that foam gags deteriorate after a few years, reducing to a granular powder.

Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 12 August 2019 11:02
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] then and now

I've just discovered the lifetime of a Rycote Softie.? 

I've had a Sennheiser K6/ME66/Softie since 1996, as recommended by Nigel at Richmond Film Services, originally used on Morning Surgery and been around a bit since then. I haven't used it much lately, but now my U3A group includes a boom operator (gives someone something useful to do), so here I go again.

This morning I picked it up and the Softie seemed strangely floppy. I pulled it off of the microphone and all the black plastic inside fell out in tiny bits, mess everywhere. Well, it's done it's share - been a pioneer in various projects. New one from Amazon on its way.

B

? 



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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Aug 12 06:13:03 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 12:13:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <5d513b2d.1c69fb81.ba76e.e3a2@mx.google.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027110061BF9206E84B6A774A7D60@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5d4ece20.1c69fb81.1518f.e00e@mx.google.com>
	<2410cb3e-1ec7-f809-9c7f-cc92b2e38172@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<73337345-e338-0c11-4d05-581992943b52@gmail.com>
	<5d513b2d.1c69fb81.ba76e.e3a2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <7dfef59e-437c-d16c-1097-13a0a02a5571@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 12/08/2019 11:10, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
> ....
>
> I?ve found that foam gags deteriorate after a few years, reducing to a 
> granular powder.
>
It's a popular misconception that plastics have permanence. They do, 
from the point of view of polluting the oceans in microscopic fashion, 
but not of retaining their physical manufactured form. UV light, oxygen 
and other airborne chemicals degrade all thermoplastics pretty fast, 
with the plasticisers that help shape them, leaking out over time.

They all become brittle and friable, with the life depending quite a lot 
on the fineness of the material. Hence foams and similar materials 
degrade much faster than window frames, just as wire wool rusts faster 
than a steel bridge - but few thermoplastics can run to more than a 
decade or two without obvious deterioration.

Chris Woolf



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From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Aug 12 06:34:01 2019
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 12:34:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <7dfef59e-437c-d16c-1097-13a0a02a5571@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027110061BF9206E84B6A774A7D60@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5d4ece20.1c69fb81.1518f.e00e@mx.google.com>
	<2410cb3e-1ec7-f809-9c7f-cc92b2e38172@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<73337345-e338-0c11-4d05-581992943b52@gmail.com>
	<5d513b2d.1c69fb81.ba76e.e3a2@mx.google.com>
	<7dfef59e-437c-d16c-1097-13a0a02a5571@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3E123F9A-6777-4053-BDF0-49AD4137A74B@me.com>

When I mentioned to a manufacturer's representative how their expensive foam windshields had an Ozymandian tendency to turn to dust, he explained that the open cell foam needed for acoustic properties make it especially prone to disintegration over a relatively short time.  However he kindly arranged to send me a replacement F.O.C.because he liked the reference to Ozymandius.

It can be particularly disappointing if the foam windshield in question is part of an otherwise fully functional item which is no longer manufactured and for which there are no generic alternatives.

Alan Taylor


 
On 12 Aug 2019, at 12 Aug . 12:13, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> 
> On 12/08/2019 11:10, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>> ....
>>  
>> I?ve found that foam gags deteriorate after a few years, reducing to a granular powder.
>>  
> It's a popular misconception that plastics have permanence. They do, from the point of view of polluting the oceans in microscopic fashion, but not of retaining their physical manufactured form. UV light, oxygen and other airborne chemicals degrade all thermoplastics pretty fast, with the plasticisers that help shape them, leaking out over time.
> 
> They all become brittle and friable, with the life depending quite a lot on the fineness of the material. Hence foams and similar materials degrade much faster than window frames, just as wire wool rusts faster than a steel bridge - but few thermoplastics can run to more than a decade or two without obvious deterioration.
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From relong at btinternet.com  Mon Aug 12 06:37:29 2019
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 12:37:29 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <2410cb3e-1ec7-f809-9c7f-cc92b2e38172@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027110061BF9206E84B6A774A7D60@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5d4ece20.1c69fb81.1518f.e00e@mx.google.com>
	<2410cb3e-1ec7-f809-9c7f-cc92b2e38172@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <7244FA65-FFE1-4443-B428-0CFA78D3A91D@btinternet.com>

I was working on a HBO drama in Romania
We had a change of location and were working under the main antennae of Radio Romania ?.
Every device was saturated with RF
Apart from my Microns?..
Once in Tokyo up in the 22 floor and opposite a TV sender even a MKH416 was rendered useless  but a Tram was not.
Very difficult in those situations as the recorder was always swamped as well.
Roger

> On 10 Aug 2019, at 16:56, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> On 10/08/2019 15:01, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>> ... but the mic input lead could have been
>> unbalanced. The Microns had a case that encompassed the bottom of the TX ? Audios had a plastic base to contain the battery, so I reckoned that they were not fully screened?
>> 
> There's a great belief in "screening", and it isn't always justified. Certainly Faraday cages are excellent devices, and you wouldn't want to be without them, but looking at the external structure of a radio mic and trying to gauge the level of screening from that isn't helpful. 
> 
> For a start the real screening of all these devices is normally accomplished by very tight-fitting internal screens - the need to avoid even the tiny cracks necessary to make a battery housing open and close means that relying on the outer shell to do the work is little use.
> 
> Radio mics cannot be grounded in any conventional sense so an antenna cannot have a "ground" to "oppose" it. Generally the case and the screen of the mic lead acta as a nominal "ground" and form a sort-of dipole with the actual antenna. These had to be trailing wires for the longer VHF wavelengths, but can be the nice little short stub for UHF.
> 
> Personal electrets mic are almost universally unbalanced. Unless they were large enough to use quite complex electronic circuitry they have to rely on a simple single FET impedance converter. That means that the connection to the TX is also unbalanced, and any signal induced in the screen of the lead cannot be excluded from the audio circuit - noise currents are inevitably connected into the audio.  The filtering of both RF and extreme LF noise is critical, but ~can't~ rely on simple screening.
> 
> That radios are as immune as they are noise sources is amazing, but to understand how they do it requires a ~very~ deep knowledge of their intimate circuitry;}
> 
> Chris Woolf
> 
> 
>  <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>	Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> <x-msg://2/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Aug 12 06:37:51 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 12:37:51 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <7dfef59e-437c-d16c-1097-13a0a02a5571@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027110061BF9206E84B6A774A7D60@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5d4ece20.1c69fb81.1518f.e00e@mx.google.com>
	<2410cb3e-1ec7-f809-9c7f-cc92b2e38172@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<73337345-e338-0c11-4d05-581992943b52@gmail.com>
	<5d513b2d.1c69fb81.ba76e.e3a2@mx.google.com>
	<7dfef59e-437c-d16c-1097-13a0a02a5571@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5d514f8f.1c69fb81.629f0.cf50@mx.google.com>

Thanks for that, Chris,
What deteriorated quite quickly were the foam inserts to the Tram mic cases.
I lined my equipment cases (from Charles Smith ? made exactly as Samcine cases)
with Ethafoam provided by them. Silly story ? working on a dustsheet in my sitting room,
I upset the pot of adhesive, which overflowed the sheet, and went into the carpet. The best
solvent was petrol, so I applied copious quantities and cleaned the carpet. The fire risk was
enormous! No smoking, and no wife to bludgeon me! I reckoned the adhesive was a variation
of Evostick, or maybe napalm!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Chris Woolf via Tech1
Sent: 12 August 2019 12:13
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] then and now


On 12/08/2019 11:10, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
.... 
?
I?ve found that foam gags deteriorate after a few years, reducing to a granular powder.
?
It's a popular misconception that plastics have permanence. They do, from the point of view of polluting the oceans in microscopic fashion, but not of retaining their physical manufactured form. UV light, oxygen and other airborne chemicals degrade all thermoplastics pretty fast, with the plasticisers that help shape them, leaking out over time.
They all become brittle and friable, with the life depending quite a lot on the fineness of the material. Hence foams and similar materials degrade much faster than window frames, just as wire wool rusts faster than a steel bridge - but few thermoplastics can run to more than a decade or two without obvious deterioration.
Chris Woolf


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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Aug 12 07:05:07 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 13:05:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <5d514f8f.1c69fb81.629f0.cf50@mx.google.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027110061BF9206E84B6A774A7D60@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5d4ece20.1c69fb81.1518f.e00e@mx.google.com>
	<2410cb3e-1ec7-f809-9c7f-cc92b2e38172@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<73337345-e338-0c11-4d05-581992943b52@gmail.com>
	<5d513b2d.1c69fb81.ba76e.e3a2@mx.google.com>
	<7dfef59e-437c-d16c-1097-13a0a02a5571@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5d514f8f.1c69fb81.629f0.cf50@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <a8905ed3-057a-04ea-7837-b72c5fc92bd1@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 12/08/2019 12:37, patheigham wrote:
>
> Thanks for that, Chris,
>
> What deteriorated quite quickly were the foam inserts to the Tram mic 
> cases.
>
>
The quality and type of plasticiser used makes an enormous difference, 
as do contaminants in contact.

A long while back I had some problems with the ABS plastic boxes used 
for Connboxes. For one particular version I had to use PVC grommets to 
protect the cables, and made some up using a glycerine based lubricant 
to squeeze everything in. After a week or two the boxes were returned 
with cracks at the corners, as if an elephant had sat on them.

For weeks I tried to work out who was crushing these things, until an 
old plastics guy worked out that the glycerine was dissolving a 
plasticiser in the Chinese grommets, that then reacted with the ABS to 
cause stress cracking. Since the corners of the moulded boxes were 
always under greater stress than the flat surfaces, that's where the 
cracking appeared.

Blooming nightmare to analyse that one!

Chris Woolf



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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Aug 12 07:15:36 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 13:15:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <7244FA65-FFE1-4443-B428-0CFA78D3A91D@btinternet.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027110061BF9206E84B6A774A7D60@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5d4ece20.1c69fb81.1518f.e00e@mx.google.com>
	<2410cb3e-1ec7-f809-9c7f-cc92b2e38172@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<7244FA65-FFE1-4443-B428-0CFA78D3A91D@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5d515868.1c69fb81.c5034.00a6@mx.google.com>

A couple of ?alarming? stories:
West Berlin, before the wall came down ? working for ABC Sports NY ? piece to camera by a very pretty but useless presenter, in the Unter Den Linden, quite close to the border to E. Germany. Before 8 am when we knew that the East Berlin TV tower opened up. Sadly the lady couldn?t get a take right, and the tower totally swamped her radio mic. Now, I wasn?t using my own kit, so her mic would not plug directly into a cabled feed. So complete mic change needed and a cable run along the gutter of the central reservation. After that I always insisted on my own kit which was connector compatible every which way. 
Train from Dusseldorf to Frankfurt, Director wanted a short I/V with our subject during this journey. After the successful take, my cameraman was worried that there was nasty interference on the picture. So we had to break out the Beta player and monitor in the vestibule of the hurtling train, and check the tape. Tape perfectly OK, so we came to the conclusion that the field from the overhead power line was affecting just the viewfinder monitor.
You could say that we should have had the main monitor available during the take, but it?s easier to be wise after the event, plus the fact that it was a last minute idea from the director ? we had not expected to shoot on the train!

Best
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Roger E Long via Tech1
Sent: 12 August 2019 12:37
To: Chris Woolf
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] then and now

I was working on a HBO drama in Romania
We had a change of location and were working under the main antennae of Radio Romania ?.
Every device was saturated with RF
Apart from my Microns?..
Once in Tokyo up in the 22 floor and opposite a TV sender even a MKH416 was rendered useless ?but a Tram was not.
Very difficult in those situations as the recorder was always swamped as well.
Roger





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From waresound at msn.com  Mon Aug 12 07:18:09 2019
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 12:18:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <5d513b2d.1c69fb81.ba76e.e3a2@mx.google.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027110061BF9206E84B6A774A7D60@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5d4ece20.1c69fb81.1518f.e00e@mx.google.com>
	<2410cb3e-1ec7-f809-9c7f-cc92b2e38172@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<73337345-e338-0c11-4d05-581992943b52@gmail.com>,
	<5d513b2d.1c69fb81.ba76e.e3a2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02712A367195153B0F1C390BA7D30@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Here you are Pat, see if this ViaGra works on your Softie.....
youtube.com/watch?v=yPEsdQkY1eQ<http://youtube.com/watch?v=yPEsdQkY1eQ>
Turn up those BNS speakers and hope the neighbours? deaf-aids aren?t working!
Nick.

Sent from my iPad

On 12 Aug 2019, at 11:11, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

Maybe Viagra might work on a ?softie?!

Possibly a chat with Simon Davies at Rycote could have obtained a replacement at ?mates rates?.
I always had an excellent relationship with them.

I?ve found that foam gags deteriorate after a few years, reducing to a granular powder.

Best
Pat

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 12 August 2019 11:02
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] then and now

I've just discovered the lifetime of a Rycote Softie.

I've had a Sennheiser K6/ME66/Softie since 1996, as recommended by Nigel at Richmond Film Services, originally used on Morning Surgery and been around a bit since then. I haven't used it much lately, but now my U3A group includes a boom operator (gives someone something useful to do), so here I go again.

This morning I picked it up and the Softie seemed strangely floppy. I pulled it off of the microphone and all the black plastic inside fell out in tiny bits, mess everywhere. Well, it's done it's share - been a pioneer in various projects. New one from Amazon on its way.

B




[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>      Virus-free. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
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From relong at btinternet.com  Mon Aug 12 16:26:23 2019
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 22:26:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] then and now
In-Reply-To: <5d515868.1c69fb81.c5034.00a6@mx.google.com>
References: <7d7f61b9-1195-3f7e-5166-9532176e85ff@gmail.com>
	<5d4c63a2.1c69fb81.3e932.a446@mx.google.com>
	<57e0da2e21dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027110061BF9206E84B6A774A7D60@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<5d4ece20.1c69fb81.1518f.e00e@mx.google.com>
	<2410cb3e-1ec7-f809-9c7f-cc92b2e38172@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<7244FA65-FFE1-4443-B428-0CFA78D3A91D@btinternet.com>
	<5d515868.1c69fb81.c5034.00a6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <75DDD938-673A-40CA-A0E2-C2C9EA8C8D20@btinternet.com>

Even monitors were not immune to RF
We were helioing up the Thames at sunset with a Brigadier PTC and the monitor and viewfinder went crazy
Back at Battersea Heliport all was well on playback
Static from the rotors was the cause
Doing transfers from chopper to Submarine again static was a concern, not for the camera but for the deck crew
That?s why they had a trailing earth on the line
Beware Static the cry.

Roger

> On 12 Aug 2019, at 13:15, patheigham <pat.heigham at amps.net> wrote:
> 
> A couple of ?alarming? stories:
> West Berlin, before the wall came down ? working for ABC Sports NY ? piece to camera by a very pretty but useless presenter, in the Unter Den Linden, quite close to the border to E. Germany. Before 8 am when we knew that the East Berlin TV tower opened up. Sadly the lady couldn?t get a take right, and the tower totally swamped her radio mic. Now, I wasn?t using my own kit, so her mic would not plug directly into a cabled feed. So complete mic change needed and a cable run along the gutter of the central reservation. After that I always insisted on my own kit which was connector compatible every which way. 
> Train from Dusseldorf to Frankfurt, Director wanted a short I/V with our subject during this journey. After the successful take, my cameraman was worried that there was nasty interference on the picture. So we had to break out the Beta player and monitor in the vestibule of the hurtling train, and check the tape. Tape perfectly OK, so we came to the conclusion that the field from the overhead power line was affecting just the viewfinder monitor.
> You could say that we should have had the main monitor available during the take, but it?s easier to be wise after the event, plus the fact that it was a last minute idea from the director ? we had not expected to shoot on the train!
>  
> Best
> Pat
>  
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
> From: Roger E Long via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: 12 August 2019 12:37
> To: Chris Woolf <mailto:chris at chriswoolf.co.uk>
> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] then and now
>  
> I was working on a HBO drama in Romania
> We had a change of location and were working under the main antennae of Radio Romania ?.
> Every device was saturated with RF
> Apart from my Microns?..
> Once in Tokyo up in the 22 floor and opposite a TV sender even a MKH416 was rendered useless  but a Tram was not.
> Very difficult in those situations as the recorder was always swamped as well.
> Roger
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>	Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> <x-msg://7/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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From billjenkin67 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 13 02:38:20 2019
From: billjenkin67 at gmail.com (Bill Jenkin)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 08:38:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] 1939 Boom
Message-ID: <001001d551aa$14fa3610$3eeea230$@gmail.com>

This still is from a BBC Archive Facebook page post. It is of a production
of 'Mr Jones Dines Out' which went out on 13th August 1939. 

I was wondering if any of you sound chaps know what sort of boom that is
also the mic being used. 

Bill Jenkin

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From ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com  Wed Aug 14 05:24:01 2019
From: ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com (Albert Barber)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 11:24:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Riverside reopening
In-Reply-To: <FC2E42D5A1D04D9BB2B0BA9AD242FCB4@Gigabyte>
References: <51BF0E6A83C64ED8AA66086AF2125281@Gigabyte>
	<FC2E42D5A1D04D9BB2B0BA9AD242FCB4@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <1A9C6A9E-7ED1-40FA-9CE0-D37B691C3EF4@btinternet.com>

Dear All
Mike?s email and photos prompted me to ask when Riverside re opens for volunteers, maybe two or three even, if you feel intimidated, to reminisce on Riverside Studios in it?s BBC heydays.
Let me or George Auckland know as Riverside new management are anxious to hold a special opening.

So far the BBC are not involved but we will try through the BBCPA to encourage them to contribute too.

Best wishes
Albert Barber


> On 29 Jul 2019, at 20:08, Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> And wasn't Riverside a really nice tidy area?
> 
> or not?
> 
> Mike
> <Boat Race 1987 Riverside.jpg><Boat Race 19zz Riverside Studios 3.jpg>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Aug 14 05:31:01 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 11:31:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fw:  Riverside reopening
In-Reply-To: <FC2E42D5A1D04D9BB2B0BA9AD242FCB4@Gigabyte>
References: <51BF0E6A83C64ED8AA66086AF2125281@Gigabyte>
	<FC2E42D5A1D04D9BB2B0BA9AD242FCB4@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <5d53e2e5.1c69fb81.72a69.eb7c@mx.google.com>

I remember the scrap yard next door.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Mike Jordan via Tech1
Sent: 29 July 2019 20:08
To: Mike Jordan; Tech-Ops-chit-chat
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fw: Riverside reopening

And wasn't Riverside a really nice tidy area?

or not?

Mike



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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Aug 14 05:38:12 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 11:38:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Riverside reopening
In-Reply-To: <1A9C6A9E-7ED1-40FA-9CE0-D37B691C3EF4@btinternet.com>
References: <51BF0E6A83C64ED8AA66086AF2125281@Gigabyte>
	<FC2E42D5A1D04D9BB2B0BA9AD242FCB4@Gigabyte>
	<1A9C6A9E-7ED1-40FA-9CE0-D37B691C3EF4@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5d53e494.1c69fb81.d0c16.6976@mx.google.com>

I think there?s a sequence in Richard Cawston?s ?This is the BBC?, involving set designers planning to build a canal set, filled with water.
Have an idea this was a Riverside production ? I?ll run the film again to confirm.  I have two DVDs, of it, one courtesy of Bernie, one from the AP Historical Society.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Albert Barber via Tech1
Sent: 14 August 2019 11:24
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Riverside reopening

Dear All
Mike?s email and photos prompted me to ask when Riverside re opens for volunteers, maybe two or three even, if you feel intimidated, to reminisce on Riverside Studios in it?s BBC heydays.
Let me or George Auckland know as Riverside new management are anxious to hold a special opening.

So far the BBC are not involved but we will try through the BBCPA to encourage them to contribute too.

Best wishes
Albert Barber





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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 06:14:16 2019
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 12:14:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Riverside reopening
In-Reply-To: <5d53e494.1c69fb81.d0c16.6976@mx.google.com>
References: <51BF0E6A83C64ED8AA66086AF2125281@Gigabyte>
	<FC2E42D5A1D04D9BB2B0BA9AD242FCB4@Gigabyte>
	<1A9C6A9E-7ED1-40FA-9CE0-D37B691C3EF4@btinternet.com>
	<5d53e494.1c69fb81.d0c16.6976@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4881B307D0FE44D69BE81D47A6019EBB@Gigabyte>

Not similar to when (apparently) BBC put an ice rink in R1 for iceshows and took in a Kendal OB unit. (Ex KA folks to confirm)
However unfortunately the rink melted and flooded the underfloor main power distribution cables.
Oh dear!

Mike

From: patheigham 
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2019 11:38 AM
To: Albert Barber ; Mike Jordan 
Cc: Tech-Ops-chit-chat 
Subject: RE: [Tech1] Riverside reopening

I think there?s a sequence in Richard Cawston?s ?This is the BBC?, involving set designers planning to build a canal set, filled with water.

Have an idea this was a Riverside production ? I?ll run the film again to confirm.  I have two DVDs, of it, one courtesy of Bernie, one from the AP Historical Society.

Pat

 


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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Aug 14 06:32:07 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 12:32:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fw: Anyone affected by yesterday's power cut?
In-Reply-To: <6mljdk9hhd011ds01eokuqod.1565515837321@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <ED91640C3DCA4F21A40AF0575DCF9C8F@Gigabyte>
	<6mljdk9hhd011ds01eokuqod.1565515837321@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5d53f138.1c69fb81.939b7.dd2d@mx.google.com>

I may have posted this story before, but it relates to a genny trying to be run in reverse.

The nickname of 'sparks' has been around for years, presumably because messing around with electricity can cause just that.
I witnessed a very exciting example while on location for "Fiddler on the Roof" in the former Yugoslavia.
The cameras were powered from 2x12v batteries running a rotary converter to produce 240v 3-phase.
Sync for the 50Hz Nagra recorders taken from the same source.
We had 6 batteries - four in the truck, two operative, two standby and two back on charge at the hotel base.
Our own Tim Blackham, (ex-BBC, as I was), was our Sound Maintenance (real title in those days) and reckoned that when the sparks had the genny running, he could float charge the batts we had on location, so he built a charger from scratch to trickle the batteries in the sound truck, whenever the genny was in use.
The electricians thought this a great idea, as they were also using 12v car batteries for some low-volt lights which weren't being cable fed - so they coupled up 20x 12v batteries in series in the back of one of their lorries and were happily charging.
Unfortunately, they had not done what Tim had - built in several diodes to prevent the current from flowing the reverse way.
Thus when the genny was killed and beginning to run down, without the charging batteries being disconnected first, these batteries attempted to run the genny! The shower of fireworks as all 20 batteries simultaneously rapidly discharged at max. current was a sight to behold - I thought Tim would expire with howls of laughter!

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Paul Thackray via Tech1
Sent: 11 August 2019 10:30
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fw: Anyone affected by yesterday's power cut?

When I worked at LBH, every Wednesday at 0230 a gennie test took place. Radio 2 was the only channel on air. They would announce a short break. The facs eng would take his cue to pull the breaker. The gennie detected the loss of incoming mains, run up and power LBH. Normal about 30s of dead air. They then ran the Gennie for 30 mins then synced it with the incoming mains , did a hot switch back so no break.?

The week it was not in sync and the hot switch was done a loud bang and melted switch gear with no BH power was the result as our gennie tried to power London out of phase with the rest of the grid. Took quite some time off air while a work around the melted kit was found.?


Paul Thackray





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From phider at gmx.com  Wed Aug 14 11:57:27 2019
From: phider at gmx.com (phider)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 17:57:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fuel prices & Wood Norton
In-Reply-To: <5d49ccf4.1c69fb81.ba0a4.8914@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <0Md3Eg-1hgpuz0pta-00ICg7@mail.gmx.com>

The late lamented Senior Cameraman Frank Wilkins also parked on Sunday evening at the top of the main drive at Wood Norton.A gardener was planting flowers in the adjacent bed and told Frank he couldn't park there. Frank told him in very Anglo Saxon English where to put his trowel. Frank was summoned? to the Office on Monday morning to meet the gardener,one Dr Sturley the Principal.He never parked there again!RegardsPeter HiderSent from Samsung Mobile on O2
-------- Original message --------From: patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 06/08/2019  19:54  (GMT+00:00) To: Barry Bonner <barrybonner119 at btinternet.com>, Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com> Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices & Wood Norton When I acquired my first vehicle, one could buy two gallons and get change from a ten-bob note!I had an Austin A35 van, which got me to Wood Norton and back, but used more oil than petrol!At WN, if you recall, the first ten spaces on the driveway nearest the main building were supposedly reserved for admin and tutors. Returning from a weekend, most other spaces were full, so Mike McCarthy parked in one of the ?reserved? gaps.At coffee break, the Major testily advised Mike that: Mr. McCarthy, your car?s in the top ten!? Mike?s pithy reply: ?Great, does it get gold hubcaps??Pat?Sent from Mail for Windows 10?From: Barry Bonner via Tech1Sent: 06 August 2019 13:42To: Nick WareCc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.ukSubject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices?So expensive is fuel in Buckinghamshire that you can buy a quart!!Barry.?????????????????????????????? ??

	
        
		Virus-free. www.avast.com
		
	
 
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Wed Aug 14 14:08:20 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 20:08:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Wood Norton
In-Reply-To: <0Md3Eg-1hgpuz0pta-00ICg7@mail.gmx.com>
References: <5d49ccf4.1c69fb81.ba0a4.8914@mx.google.com>
	<0Md3Eg-1hgpuz0pta-00ICg7@mail.gmx.com>
Message-ID: <5d545c25.1c69fb81.219a4.7fd4@mx.google.com>

I was on Crew 2, with Senior Cam Frank Wilkins ? he reckoned that he had first pop at any female that took his eye.
A young junior cameraman ? Mike Fash, very handsome, also had this attitude, so Frank would always deploy Mike on a tower cam or from the lighting grid rail, so that there was a safety harness, winched up tight, and Mike was only let down at tea break!
Years later, I worked with Mike, now DOP, me on the boom, and my mixer said, you won?t have a problem ? too right! We had been trained the same way, & I could tell him how to light!
Sturley:
One of the things that pissed me off about Wood Norton was the attitude of being treated like fifth formers at school. Even to the classroom environment.
Prior to the first TO course, I had spent six months in TVC studios, operating booms as 1st assistant, or whatever it?s called now, on sit-coms. The tutors were trying to teach us operational techniques that were well out of date.
I admit to back-pedalling a bit, and got summoned to Magister Sturley:
?Do you want to stay with the BBC??
?Yes?
?Then pull you finger out!?
So I did, and became a reasonably proficient Gram Op, gaining two salary upgrades in  one year.

But I still reckon that the attitude of the Training Dept was totally mis-directed.
Somehow, the Management would never admit that the guy was fully trained.
(Will make an excellent operative... etc) So who puts the reporter in his job!!!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: phider
Sent: 14 August 2019 18:28
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Fuel prices & Wood Norton

The late lamented Senior Cameraman Frank Wilkins also parked on Sunday evening at the top of the main drive at Wood Norton.

A gardener was planting flowers in the adjacent bed and told Frank he couldn't park there. Frank told him in very Anglo Saxon English where to put his trowel. Frank was summoned? to the Office on Monday morning to meet the gardener,
one Dr Sturley the Principal.

He never parked there again!

Regards
Peter Hider


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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Wed Aug 14 17:53:05 2019
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2019 23:53:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Riverside reopening
In-Reply-To: <4881B307D0FE44D69BE81D47A6019EBB@Gigabyte>
References: <51BF0E6A83C64ED8AA66086AF2125281@Gigabyte>
	<FC2E42D5A1D04D9BB2B0BA9AD242FCB4@Gigabyte>
	<1A9C6A9E-7ED1-40FA-9CE0-D37B691C3EF4@btinternet.com>
	<5d53e494.1c69fb81.d0c16.6976@mx.google.com>
	<4881B307D0FE44D69BE81D47A6019EBB@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <d636f0d7-9666-edce-8a0d-5ee1c789a857@howell61.f9.co.uk>

Although I was a studios bod I did a couple of days on The Ice Show, 
John Livingstone was the OB Sound Sup.

John H.


On 14/08/2019 12:14, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote:
> Not similar to when (apparently) BBC put an ice rink in R1 for 
> iceshows and took in a Kendal OB unit. (Ex KA folks to confirm)
> However unfortunately the rink melted and flooded the underfloor main 
> power distribution cables.
> Oh dear!
> Mike
> *From:* patheigham <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 14, 2019 11:38 AM
> *To:* Albert Barber <mailto:ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com> ; Mike Jordan 
> <mailto:mikej at bmanor.co.uk>
> *Cc:* Tech-Ops-chit-chat <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> *Subject:* RE: [Tech1] Riverside reopening
>
> I think there?s a sequence in Richard Cawston?s ?This is the BBC?, 
> involving set designers planning to build a canal set, filled with water.
>
> Have an idea this was a Riverside production ? I?ll run the film again 
> to confirm.? I have two DVDs, of it, one courtesy of Bernie, one from 
> the AP Historical Society.
>
> Pat
>
>
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From jpn at imixmics.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 02:33:59 2019
From: jpn at imixmics.co.uk (John Nottage)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 08:33:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Riverside reopening
In-Reply-To: <d636f0d7-9666-edce-8a0d-5ee1c789a857@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <51BF0E6A83C64ED8AA66086AF2125281@Gigabyte>
	<FC2E42D5A1D04D9BB2B0BA9AD242FCB4@Gigabyte>
	<1A9C6A9E-7ED1-40FA-9CE0-D37B691C3EF4@btinternet.com>
	<5d53e494.1c69fb81.d0c16.6976@mx.google.com>
	<4881B307D0FE44D69BE81D47A6019EBB@Gigabyte>
	<d636f0d7-9666-edce-8a0d-5ee1c789a857@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <07b437ad-ed20-5c90-7b5f-7fa8fb64874b@imixmics.co.uk>

That's jogged my memory: I did a series of Ice Shows, John Livingstone 
as SS, but it was from The Round House (Neasden?) - maybe 1969? I 
remember a few things from that show (I think!). We left everything 
rigged overnight & came in the next day to find a load of band mics 
missing: they even took some 4038s. After that, me took in all the mics 
heads. Next night they nicked the STC sockets from the top of some mic 
stands, presumably so they could connect to the 4038s they'd nicked. 
After that it was rig/derig the band each day! The other happier memory 
was the lovely Anita Harris turning up for a guest appearance: little 
skating skirt, lovely long legs & a great skater. Cheered everyone up 
immensely. Happy days...

John

On 14/08/2019 23:53, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
> Although I was a studios bod I did a couple of days on The Ice Show, 
> John Livingstone was the OB Sound Sup.
> 
> John H.
> 
> 
> On 14/08/2019 12:14, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote:
>> Not similar to when (apparently) BBC put an ice rink in R1 for 
>> iceshows and took in a Kendal OB unit. (Ex KA folks to confirm)
>> However unfortunately the rink melted and flooded the underfloor main 
>> power distribution cables.
>> Oh dear!
>> Mike
>> *From:* patheigham <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 14, 2019 11:38 AM
>> *To:* Albert Barber <mailto:ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com> ; Mike Jordan 
>> <mailto:mikej at bmanor.co.uk>
>> *Cc:* Tech-Ops-chit-chat <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Subject:* RE: [Tech1] Riverside reopening
>>
>> I think there?s a sequence in Richard Cawston?s ?This is the BBC?, 
>> involving set designers planning to build a canal set, filled with water.
>>
>> Have an idea this was a Riverside production ? I?ll run the film again 
>> to confirm.? I have two DVDs, of it, one courtesy of Bernie, one from 
>> the AP Historical Society.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
> 



From jpbarlow at btopenworld.com  Thu Aug 15 04:03:47 2019
From: jpbarlow at btopenworld.com (jpbarlow at btopenworld.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 10:03:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Software detects when shots are boring!
Message-ID: <002401d55348$597e0740$0c7a15c0$@btopenworld.com>

 

 



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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 15 04:17:10 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 10:17:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Software detects when shots are boring!
In-Reply-To: <002401d55348$597e0740$0c7a15c0$@btopenworld.com>
References: <002401d55348$597e0740$0c7a15c0$@btopenworld.com>
Message-ID: <23a96e2d-5540-ee0e-2a54-bc9a249eee57@gmail.com>

And it's free. I'm about to try this version

B



On 15/08/2019 10:03, jpbarlow--- via Tech1 wrote:
>
>

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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Thu Aug 15 04:20:08 2019
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 10:20:08 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Software detects when shots are boring!
In-Reply-To: <002401d55348$597e0740$0c7a15c0$@btopenworld.com>
References: <002401d55348$597e0740$0c7a15c0$@btopenworld.com>
Message-ID: <DC8F874C232745BD9EEA2BA679606AE5@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Nice one!

Dave Newbitt.

From: jpbarlow--- via Tech1 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 10:03 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: [Tech1] Software detects when shots are boring!

 

 





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 15 11:09:18 2019
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 17:09:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Making a radio programme - the old way
Message-ID: <5d474ee1-4063-303d-df3c-32b292fd6e1b@gmail.com>

Hi,

In this edition of the BBC Mage "Science Focus",

Space 2069

... there is a comment piece from a R4 science programme producer 
(?Discovering Science?), about how they did a recent programme "the old 
way" with heavy tape machines, physically cutting tape and editing with 
sticky tape - and having to do a LIVE commentary, rather than working in 
the current modern manner using cut and paste with sound bites and 
snippets on a PC or similar.? Get all the programme bits somehow, then 
assemble the collection into some sort of a sensible order: the old way 
- oh heavens - needed more planning upfront.

Apologies, I read this article while having a tyre changed in the 
local(-ish) tyre shop, so can't send the article!

-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502

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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Thu Aug 15 12:29:23 2019
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2019 18:29:23 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Riverside reopening
In-Reply-To: <07b437ad-ed20-5c90-7b5f-7fa8fb64874b@imixmics.co.uk>
References: <51BF0E6A83C64ED8AA66086AF2125281@Gigabyte>
	<FC2E42D5A1D04D9BB2B0BA9AD242FCB4@Gigabyte>
	<1A9C6A9E-7ED1-40FA-9CE0-D37B691C3EF4@btinternet.com>
	<5d53e494.1c69fb81.d0c16.6976@mx.google.com>
	<4881B307D0FE44D69BE81D47A6019EBB@Gigabyte>
	<d636f0d7-9666-edce-8a0d-5ee1c789a857@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<07b437ad-ed20-5c90-7b5f-7fa8fb64874b@imixmics.co.uk>
Message-ID: <518b3e4a-3329-d771-1fd8-feee1190f325@howell61.f9.co.uk>

That's? brought further memories, wasn't there a Reslo Ribbon mic on 
each table laid out in 'nightclub' fashion? how we managed the cables I 
can't think!

John H.


On 15/08/2019 08:33, John Nottage via Tech1 wrote:
> That's jogged my memory: I did a series of Ice Shows, John Livingstone 
> as SS, but it was from The Round House (Neasden?) - maybe 1969? I 
> remember a few things from that show (I think!). We left everything 
> rigged overnight & came in the next day to find a load of band mics 
> missing: they even took some 4038s. After that, me took in all the 
> mics heads. Next night they nicked the STC sockets from the top of 
> some mic stands, presumably so they could connect to the 4038s they'd 
> nicked. After that it was rig/derig the band each day! The other 
> happier memory was the lovely Anita Harris turning up for a guest 
> appearance: little skating skirt, lovely long legs & a great skater. 
> Cheered everyone up immensely. Happy days...
>
> John
>
> On 14/08/2019 23:53, John Howell via Tech1 wrote:
>> Although I was a studios bod I did a couple of days on The Ice Show, 
>> John Livingstone was the OB Sound Sup.
>>
>> John H.
>>
>>
>> On 14/08/2019 12:14, Mike Jordan via Tech1 wrote:
>>> Not similar to when (apparently) BBC put an ice rink in R1 for 
>>> iceshows and took in a Kendal OB unit. (Ex KA folks to confirm)
>>> However unfortunately the rink melted and flooded the underfloor 
>>> main power distribution cables.
>>> Oh dear!
>>> Mike
>>> *From:* patheigham <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 14, 2019 11:38 AM
>>> *To:* Albert Barber <mailto:ravenscourt1 at btinternet.com> ; Mike 
>>> Jordan <mailto:mikej at bmanor.co.uk>
>>> *Cc:* Tech-Ops-chit-chat <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> *Subject:* RE: [Tech1] Riverside reopening
>>>
>>> I think there?s a sequence in Richard Cawston?s ?This is the BBC?, 
>>> involving set designers planning to build a canal set, filled with 
>>> water.
>>>
>>> Have an idea this was a Riverside production ? I?ll run the film 
>>> again to confirm.? I have two DVDs, of it, one courtesy of Bernie, 
>>> one from the AP Historical Society.
>>>
>>> Pat
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 16 04:20:05 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2019 10:20:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Software detects when shots are boring!
In-Reply-To: <002401d55348$597e0740$0c7a15c0$@btopenworld.com>
References: <002401d55348$597e0740$0c7a15c0$@btopenworld.com>
Message-ID: <3a7ab5c2-8068-925c-7a04-21f985055bd7@gmail.com>

Resolve turns out to have the boring button in it's simplified Cut 
section, for those in a hurry. I haven't used that bit, as I've found in 
the past that "simple" editors tend to leave out just the bit you want. 
It's easier in the long run to use the simple bits of the complicated 
editor, because at some point you're going to need some obscure thing. 
Anyway, here's the setup panel -



Meanwhile, I've been playing with the Fusion section - node base 
compositing, which I've never done before. It's quite satisfying, 
learning and building, and I now have a logo for my group - 
http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/bern/U3A/Logo_with_sting_no_alpha.mp4





B

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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 17 03:06:34 2019
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 09:06:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully received!
Message-ID: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

In a rash moment I volunteered to give a talk to the local Model 
Engineering Club (RSME) about television technology in the pre-digital 
age - covering things like pedestals, cranes etc and anything that could 
tie into "engineering" at its loosest.

Starting on this, I realised that I didn't have the slightest notion of 
HOW the Vinten Hydraulic pedestal was balanced, using those gas 
cylinders!?? It just worked..? So any information on that would be 
gratefully received (as would any drawings, e.g. a GA).? I am guessing 
that a similar arrangement was used to balance the crane arm in the 
Vinten Heron - or was it?

I have seen pictures of the Nike crane and the Transatlantic, but 
personally I never came across these, so any info beyond what is already 
on the Tech Ops site would be of great interest.

On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams decks, 
but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be on 
interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks, and how did 
the BTR2s manage to go at any speed (on a rotating handle) and yet still 
do the standard speeds!? What other things should I consider?? Stringing 
on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...

It's when I start on something like this, I realise just how little I 
really know!? Help! Any info would be very welcome.? I might be able to 
consolidate it for the Tech Ops web site.

-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502




From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Sat Aug 17 03:49:54 2019
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 08:49:54 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Software detects when shots are boring!
In-Reply-To: <3a7ab5c2-8068-925c-7a04-21f985055bd7@gmail.com>
References: <002401d55348$597e0740$0c7a15c0$@btopenworld.com>
	<3a7ab5c2-8068-925c-7a04-21f985055bd7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1045757690.8853788.1566031794232@mail.yahoo.com>

 Now it just needs some editing software that says, "You can't cut there, mate. You've crossed the line. Wait 'till after the head turn." Or, "Looking room on the wrong side of frame." etc. Then we could all stop shouting at the screen!
luv, Rog.
    On Friday, 16 August 2019, 10:20:35 BST, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:  
 
  Resolve turns out to have the boring button in it's simplified Cut section, for those in a hurry. I haven't used that bit, as I've found in the past that "simple" editors tend to leave out just the bit you want. It's easier in the long run to use the simple bits of the complicated editor, because at some point you're going to need some obscure thing. Anyway, here's the setup panel - 
 
 
 
 Meanwhile, I've been playing with the Fusion section - node base compositing, which I've never done before. It's quite satisfying, learning and building, and I now have a logo for my group - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/bern/U3A/Logo_with_sting_no_alpha.mp4
 
 
 
 
 
 B
 
 -- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
  
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Aug 17 03:58:54 2019
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 09:58:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Software detects when shots are boring!
In-Reply-To: <1045757690.8853788.1566031794232@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <002401d55348$597e0740$0c7a15c0$@btopenworld.com>
	<3a7ab5c2-8068-925c-7a04-21f985055bd7@gmail.com>
	<1045757690.8853788.1566031794232@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8E4CC00D-E67B-4AE1-903D-B49CC7DFD8B7@me.com>

If the software decides that a shot or sequence is boring, the simplest solution would be to do what human directors have done for donkey's years - add some library music.

Alan Taylor




On 17 Aug 2019, at 17 Aug . 09:49, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Now it just needs some editing software that says, "You can't cut there, mate. You've crossed the line. Wait 'till after the head turn." Or, "Looking room on the wrong side of frame." etc. Then we could all stop shouting at the screen!
> 
> luv, Rog.
> 
> On Friday, 16 August 2019, 10:20:35 BST, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> Resolve turns out to have the boring button in it's simplified Cut section, for those in a hurry. I haven't used that bit, as I've found in the past that "simple" editors tend to leave out just the bit you want. It's easier in the long run to use the simple bits of the complicated editor, because at some point you're going to need some obscure thing. Anyway, here's the setup panel - 
> 
> <kkhooippadchccnk.png>
> 
> Meanwhile, I've been playing with the Fusion section - node base compositing, which I've never done before. It's quite satisfying, learning and building, and I now have a logo for my group - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/bern/U3A/Logo_with_sting_no_alpha.mp4
> 
> <pffcjefeaoaafinj.png>
> 
> <hafnfkepipaggija.png>
> 
> B
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> <pffcjefeaoaafinj.png><hafnfkepipaggija.png><kkhooippadchccnk.png>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Sat Aug 17 04:35:39 2019
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 10:35:39 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJkfavKi-6HMuMkN_1mxN105BhL5sBGTM8iXbNsDSGSdeQ@mail.gmail.com>

Here's a little about the BTR2:

For the BTR2, a variable-frequency power supply (presumably made by EMI) was
available as an add-on so that the synchronous capstan motor could be
driven at various speeds. Standard speeds when driven at 50 Hz were
originally 30 ips and 15 ips but, on the machines at BH (London), the
capstans had been turned down to half diameter so that the standard speeds
became 15 ips and 7? ips. Material for broadcasting was recorded at 15 ips.
Tapes for producers to listen to were recorded at 7? ips.

The original amplifiers for the BTR2s had EF37A valves for V1 and V2.
Sometimes V1 developed a faint tone-like noise on playback and, in an
emergency, swapping over V1 and V2 usually provided a temporary solution.
Transistor amplifiers were developed for the BTR2s, but I saw only one such
unit at BH (London) and never saw one actually used (I left in 1963). BTR2s
were massive brutes, but wonderful for editing. One of the Beatles ?
Lennon, I think ? took a liking to the machine for that reason, after
seeing one in use at Abbey Road Studios, and bought one for himself.

On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 at 09:06, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> In a rash moment I volunteered to give a talk to the local Model
> Engineering Club (RSME) about television technology in the pre-digital
> age - covering things like pedestals, cranes etc and anything that could
> tie into "engineering" at its loosest.
>
> Starting on this, I realised that I didn't have the slightest notion of
> HOW the Vinten Hydraulic pedestal was balanced, using those gas
> cylinders!   It just worked..  So any information on that would be
> gratefully received (as would any drawings, e.g. a GA).  I am guessing
> that a similar arrangement was used to balance the crane arm in the
> Vinten Heron - or was it?
>
> I have seen pictures of the Nike crane and the Transatlantic, but
> personally I never came across these, so any info beyond what is already
> on the Tech Ops site would be of great interest.
>
> On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams decks,
> but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be on
> interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks, and how did
> the BTR2s manage to go at any speed (on a rotating handle) and yet still
> do the standard speeds!  What other things should I consider?  Stringing
> on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...
>
> It's when I start on something like this, I realise just how little I
> really know!  Help! Any info would be very welcome.  I might be able to
> consolidate it for the Tech Ops web site.
>
> --
>
> Best Regards
>
> Alec
>
> Alec Bray
>
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502
>
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From dave at davesound.co.uk  Sat Aug 17 05:15:22 2019
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 11:15:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57e4e81ecedave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db at gmail.com>,
   Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams decks, 
> but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be on 
> interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks, and how did 
> the BTR2s manage to go at any speed (on a rotating handle) and yet still 
> do the standard speeds!  What other things should I consider?  Stringing 
> on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...

When a tape machine is playing or recording, the tape is driven by a
capstan and pinch roller system. In those days, it would be a synchronous
motor locked to mains frequency.

When spooling, the pinch roller isn't gripping the tape, so movement is
controlled by the motors on the spools. Depending how much 'voltage' is
fed to those motors (via the spool knob and a rheostat, it will either
spool forwards or backwards at the speed you've set.

-- 
*How much deeper would the oceans be without sponges? *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sat Aug 17 06:39:02 2019
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 12:39:02 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2A71946E-FA3B-42C2-BD2D-AD74D11BFD60@icloud.com>

On the subject of cranes, the Mole had a 1:1 arm but the Nike was a 2:1 arm necessitating double the amount of lead in the bucket to balance the camera and cameraman on the other end.  IIRC the Atlantic was the same.

Somewhere I Ihave a GTC booklet on camera cranes, if I can find it I?ll scan it and email it to you.

? 
Graeme Wall


> On 17 Aug 2019, at 09:06, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> In a rash moment I volunteered to give a talk to the local Model Engineering Club (RSME) about television technology in the pre-digital age - covering things like pedestals, cranes etc and anything that could tie into "engineering" at its loosest.
> 
> Starting on this, I realised that I didn't have the slightest notion of HOW the Vinten Hydraulic pedestal was balanced, using those gas cylinders!   It just worked..  So any information on that would be gratefully received (as would any drawings, e.g. a GA).  I am guessing that a similar arrangement was used to balance the crane arm in the Vinten Heron - or was it?
> 
> I have seen pictures of the Nike crane and the Transatlantic, but personally I never came across these, so any info beyond what is already on the Tech Ops site would be of great interest.
> 
> On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams decks, but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be on interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks, and how did the BTR2s manage to go at any speed (on a rotating handle) and yet still do the standard speeds!  What other things should I consider?  Stringing on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...
> 
> It's when I start on something like this, I realise just how little I really know!  Help! Any info would be very welcome.  I might be able to consolidate it for the Tech Ops web site.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Alec
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From keithwicksuk at gmail.com  Sat Aug 17 06:58:42 2019
From: keithwicksuk at gmail.com (Keith Wicks)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 12:58:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <57e4e81ecedave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<57e4e81ecedave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <CAA=qGJ=VdSXK-L4yKbVqT+8xk30yWBVuJiD24M6XrJK=wGOnBA@mail.gmail.com>

Dave is right about the spooling system on the BTR2. You can see the knob
in this picture of a BTR2 at Abbey Road.

[image: BTR2.png]

In my previous post, I assumed Alec was referring to some other speed
control device, as he called it a "handle".
Unlike this Abbey Road machine, the ones we used at BH had VU meters, but
we never used them as PPMs were included in the recording channel equipment.
KW

On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 at 11:22, Dave Plowman via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> In article <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db at gmail.com>,
>    Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> > On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams decks,
> > but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be on
> > interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks, and how did
> > the BTR2s manage to go at any speed (on a rotating handle) and yet still
> > do the standard speeds!  What other things should I consider?  Stringing
> > on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...
>
> When a tape machine is playing or recording, the tape is driven by a
> capstan and pinch roller system. In those days, it would be a synchronous
> motor locked to mains frequency.
>
> When spooling, the pinch roller isn't gripping the tape, so movement is
> controlled by the motors on the spools. Depending how much 'voltage' is
> fed to those motors (via the spool knob and a rheostat, it will either
> spool forwards or backwards at the speed you've set.
>
> --
> *How much deeper would the oceans be without sponges? *
>
>     Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From alanaudio at me.com  Sat Aug 17 07:05:53 2019
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 13:05:53 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <2A71946E-FA3B-42C2-BD2D-AD74D11BFD60@icloud.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<2A71946E-FA3B-42C2-BD2D-AD74D11BFD60@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <6728FD87-790A-40E6-A947-783742FFBD91@me.com>

Mechanically minded bods may be interested in the Chapman Titan crane, which was mounted on an amazing lorry.  The counterbalance for the camera crane was adjusted my pumping massive quantities of liquid mercury into a tank on the opposite end to the camera.

The lorry part featured all wheel steering which meant that it could crab or manoeuvre in all sorts of weird ways.  It could also drive along at a fair speed too.

I recall working on a dance routine for the Engelbert Humperdinck show around 1970 which was being shot on the set of the Oliver movie.  Stewart Morris was directing and unsurprisingly, he insisted on having the biggest bestest camera crane available, so a Titan was booked. Even with it's super agility, it was a huge challenge manoeuvring it into the desired place on the set, but unfortunately what looked like a solid stone pavement turned out to be painted wood and was utterly crushed under the wheels.  

Alan Taylor



On 17 Aug 2019, at 17 Aug . 12:39, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> On the subject of cranes, the Mole had a 1:1 arm but the Nike was a 2:1 arm necessitating double the amount of lead in the bucket to balance the camera and cameraman on the other end.  IIRC the Atlantic was the same.
> 
> Somewhere I Ihave a GTC booklet on camera cranes, if I can find it I?ll scan it and email it to you.
> 
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
>> On 17 Aug 2019, at 09:06, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> In a rash moment I volunteered to give a talk to the local Model Engineering Club (RSME) about television technology in the pre-digital age - covering things like pedestals, cranes etc and anything that could tie into "engineering" at its loosest.
>> 
>> Starting on this, I realised that I didn't have the slightest notion of HOW the Vinten Hydraulic pedestal was balanced, using those gas cylinders!   It just worked..  So any information on that would be gratefully received (as would any drawings, e.g. a GA).  I am guessing that a similar arrangement was used to balance the crane arm in the Vinten Heron - or was it?
>> 
>> I have seen pictures of the Nike crane and the Transatlantic, but personally I never came across these, so any info beyond what is already on the Tech Ops site would be of great interest.
>> 
>> On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams decks, but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be on interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks, and how did the BTR2s manage to go at any speed (on a rotating handle) and yet still do the standard speeds!  What other things should I consider?  Stringing on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...
>> 
>> It's when I start on something like this, I realise just how little I really know!  Help! Any info would be very welcome.  I might be able to consolidate it for the Tech Ops web site.
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Best Regards
>> 
>> Alec
>> 
>> Alec Bray
>> 
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> mob:    07789 561 346
>> home:   0118 981 7502
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sat Aug 17 07:24:37 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 13:24:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4695ddb2-4aa4-14f3-8048-e800aed55236@chriswoolf.co.uk>

I think...

That pedestals function in pretty much the same fashion as a gas strut 
on a tailgate. The gas pressure introduced is just sufficient to 
overcome the gravity force downwards - simple as that. That's a true 
"balance" system - one force matching a second one. Nitrogen is the gas 
used because it is cheap and non-reactive.

I don't think the Heron was balanced in any way - it simply used a 
hydraulic ram to force the camera and platform upwards, with gravity 
pushing it back down - a simple single-acting ram. That's pretty well 
the same as older tractor front loaders - diggers have double action, 
with the hydraulics powering in both directions.

Chris Woolf


On 17/08/2019 09:06, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> In a rash moment I volunteered to give a talk to the local Model 
> Engineering Club (RSME) about television technology in the pre-digital 
> age - covering things like pedestals, cranes etc and anything that 
> could tie into "engineering" at its loosest.
>
> Starting on this, I realised that I didn't have the slightest notion 
> of HOW the Vinten Hydraulic pedestal was balanced, using those gas 
> cylinders!?? It just worked..? So any information on that would be 
> gratefully received (as would any drawings, e.g. a GA).? I am guessing 
> that a similar arrangement was used to balance the crane arm in the 
> Vinten Heron - or was it?
>
> I have seen pictures of the Nike crane and the Transatlantic, but 
> personally I never came across these, so any info beyond what is 
> already on the Tech Ops site would be of great interest.
>
> On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams 
> decks, but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be 
> on interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks, and 
> how did the BTR2s manage to go at any speed (on a rotating handle) and 
> yet still do the standard speeds!? What other things should I 
> consider?? Stringing on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...
>
> It's when I start on something like this, I realise just how little I 
> really know!? Help! Any info would be very welcome.? I might be able 
> to consolidate it for the Tech Ops web site.
>

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From phider at gmx.com  Sat Aug 17 08:58:39 2019
From: phider at gmx.com (phider)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 14:58:39 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <6728FD87-790A-40E6-A947-783742FFBD91@me.com>
Message-ID: <0M0gww-1iGExz2hTi-00uqdy@mail.gmx.com>

The Transatlantic had a further element in its arsenal. The column on which arm was mounted cou?d also tilt. I was on the camera elevated to the maximum on the arm being a German Zeppelin over London during WW1.I could touch the grid which was fairly scary when the Trans. driver demonstrated the column tilt. It was very nearly brown trousers time. I think Steve Rogers (the Omar Sharif of Tech Ops) was my chair turner.6?????78888?Sent from Samsung Mobile on O2
-------- Original message --------From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 17/08/2019  13:05  (GMT+00:00) To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
? received! Mechanically minded bods may be interested in the Chapman Titan crane, which was mounted on an amazing lorry.? The counterbalance for the camera crane was adjusted my pumping massive quantities of liquid mercury into a tank on the opposite end to the camera.The lorry part featured all wheel steering which meant that it could crab or manoeuvre in all sorts of weird ways.? It could also drive along at a fair speed too.I recall working on a dance routine for the Engelbert Humperdinck show around 1970 which was being shot on the set of the Oliver movie.? Stewart Morris was directing and unsurprisingly, he insisted on having the biggest bestest camera crane available, so a Titan was booked. Even with it's super agility, it was a huge challenge manoeuvring it into the desired place on the set, but unfortunately what looked like a solid stone pavement turned out to be painted wood and was utterly crushed under the wheels.? Alan TaylorOn 17 Aug 2019, at 17 Aug . 12:39, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:> On the subject of cranes, the Mole had a 1:1 arm but the Nike was a 2:1 arm necessitating double the amount of lead in the bucket to balance the camera and cameraman on the other end.? IIRC the Atlantic was the same.> > Somewhere I Ihave a GTC booklet on camera cranes, if I can find it I?ll scan it and email it to you.> > ? > Graeme Wall> > >> On 17 Aug 2019, at 09:06, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:>> >> Hi everyone,>> >> In a rash moment I volunteered to give a talk to the local Model Engineering Club (RSME) about television technology in the pre-digital age - covering things like pedestals, cranes etc and anything that could tie into "engineering" at its loosest.>> >> Starting on this, I realised that I didn't have the slightest notion of HOW the Vinten Hydraulic pedestal was balanced, using those gas cylinders!?? It just worked..? So any information on that would be gratefully received (as would any drawings, e.g. a GA).? I am guessing that a similar arrangement was used to balance the crane arm in the Vinten Heron - or was it?>> >> I have seen pictures of the Nike crane and the Transatlantic, but personally I never came across these, so any info beyond what is already on the Tech Ops site would be of great interest.>> >> On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams decks, but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be on interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks, and how did the BTR2s manage to go at any speed (on a rotating handle) and yet still do the standard speeds!? What other things should I consider?? Stringing on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...>> >> It's when I start on something like this, I realise just how little I really know!? Help! Any info would be very welcome.? I might be able to consolidate it for the Tech Ops web site.>> >> -- >> >> Best Regards>> >> Alec>> >> Alec Bray>> >> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>> mob:??? 07789 561 346>> home:?? 0118 981 7502>> >> >> >> -- >> Tech1 mailing list>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk> > > -- > Tech1 mailing list> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk-- Tech1 mailing listTech1 at tech-ops.co.ukhttp://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Sat Aug 17 10:13:32 2019
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 16:13:32 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <0M0gww-1iGExz2hTi-00uqdy@mail.gmx.com>
References: <0M0gww-1iGExz2hTi-00uqdy@mail.gmx.com>
Message-ID: <0f02e801-b7f9-3ba0-b846-339abc6e025f@pgtmedia.co.uk>

Chapman Leonard would never sell you a NIKE.

You had to Lease it, and continue to make your monthly payments , until 
you returned it (to LA) with all the batteries, lead wights etc. Not a 
cheep option to return it Nor a cheep option to keep it!

Probably ?6k shipping each , when I last returned one about 20 years ago.


On 17/08/2019 14:58, phider via Tech1 wrote:
> The Transatlantic had a further element in its arsenal. The column on 
> which arm was mounted cou?d also tilt. I was on the camera elevated to 
> the maximum on the arm being a German Zeppelin over London during 
> WW1.I could touch the grid which was fairly scary when the Trans. 
> driver demonstrated the column tilt. It was very nearly brown trousers 
> time. I think Steve Rogers (the Omar Sharif of Tech Ops) was my chair 
> turner.
> 6?????78888?
>
>
>
> Sent from Samsung Mobile on O2
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Alan Taylor via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Date: 17/08/2019 13:05 (GMT+00:00)
> To: Tech-Ops-chit-chat <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc 
> gratefully ? received!
>
> Mechanically minded bods may be interested in the Chapman Titan crane, 
> which was mounted on an amazing lorry.? The counterbalance for the 
> camera crane was adjusted my pumping massive quantities of liquid 
> mercury into a tank on the opposite end to the camera.
>
> The lorry part featured all wheel steering which meant that it could 
> crab or manoeuvre in all sorts of weird ways.? It could also drive 
> along at a fair speed too.
>
> I recall working on a dance routine for the Engelbert Humperdinck show 
> around 1970 which was being shot on the set of the Oliver movie.? 
> Stewart Morris was directing and unsurprisingly, he insisted on having 
> the biggest bestest camera crane available, so a Titan was booked. 
> Even with it's super agility, it was a huge challenge manoeuvring it 
> into the desired place on the set, but unfortunately what looked like 
> a solid stone pavement turned out to be painted wood and was utterly 
> crushed under the wheels.
>
> Alan Taylor
>
>
>
> On 17 Aug 2019, at 17 Aug . 12:39, Graeme Wall via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On the subject of cranes, the Mole had a 1:1 arm but the Nike was a 
> 2:1 arm necessitating double the amount of lead in the bucket to 
> balance the camera and cameraman on the other end.? IIRC the Atlantic 
> was the same.
> >
> > Somewhere I Ihave a GTC booklet on camera cranes, if I can find it 
> I?ll scan it and email it to you.
> >
> > ?
> > Graeme Wall
> >
> >
> >> On 17 Aug 2019, at 09:06, Alec Bray via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> In a rash moment I volunteered to give a talk to the local Model 
> Engineering Club (RSME) about television technology in the pre-digital 
> age - covering things like pedestals, cranes etc and anything that 
> could tie into "engineering" at its loosest.
> >>
> >> Starting on this, I realised that I didn't have the slightest 
> notion of HOW the Vinten Hydraulic pedestal was balanced, using those 
> gas cylinders!?? It just worked..? So any information on that would be 
> gratefully received (as would any drawings, e.g. a GA).? I am guessing 
> that a similar arrangement was used to balance the crane arm in the 
> Vinten Heron - or was it?
> >>
> >> I have seen pictures of the Nike crane and the Transatlantic, but 
> personally I never came across these, so any info beyond what is 
> already on the Tech Ops site would be of great interest.
> >>
> >> On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams 
> decks, but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be 
> on interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks, and 
> how did the BTR2s manage to go at any speed (on a rotating handle) and 
> yet still do the standard speeds!? What other things should I 
> consider?? Stringing on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...
> >>
> >> It's when I start on something like this, I realise just how little 
> I really know!? Help! Any info would be very welcome. I might be able 
> to consolidate it for the Tech Ops web site.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Best Regards
> >>
> >> Alec
> >>
> >> Alec Bray
> >>
> >> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> >> mob:??? 07789 561 346
> >> home:?? 0118 981 7502
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Tech1 mailing list
> >> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> >> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tech1 mailing list
> > Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> > http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
-- 
Paul Thackray
PGT Media Consulting Ltd.
+44 7802 243979
Mail; paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
Web; http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk
Linkedin;   http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746
IMDB; http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/



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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Aug 17 11:40:57 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 17:40:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>

Something that might be of interest regarding the grams turntables.
In the very early days, Lime Grove galleries were fitted with 78rpm turntables (TD7), with radial tracking pickups, and old-fashioned steel needles. It being impossible to back track the discs, one had to groove count before the mod of the effect happened, either by counting turns from the run in, or by gently clicking the needle from groove to groove, on pre-hear. If you got it wrong, it was either late, or halfway through! Later, the DRD5, equipped with a stereo stylus that had vertical compliance, allowed the disc to be rotated backwards from the start of the effect and so cued in with a bit of anticipation. This seems to be the mainstay of the exponents of today?s scratching DJ artistry, but let?s face it, chaps, it?s not new!
The turntables with which TVC sound control were equipped (RP2), were a dual unit, usually two of these, providing 4 turntables. These were modified Garrard 301s and the modification was that the bottom bearing for the turntable spindle was fitted with an electric cam which could raise the turntable up until it connected with an aluminium plate upon which the disc rested. Thus, with the turntable already spinning, pretty fast starts could be achieved as the support disc came up to speed quickly. At 78rpm, and initially all the BBC Sound effects discs were at that speed, (7? 33 1/3 microgroove came in the later 60?s), the disc could be backtracked to a quarter of a revolution from the start of the mod, stereo stylus again, and with a bit of anticipation, the effect could be spot cued.
They were also vari-speed, the correct setting being achieved with strobe holes on the extreme edge of the aluminium disc, a 50Hz neon lamp underneath. When the ?holes? appeared stationary, that was the correct speed. One point of interest: the BBC rotary faders had a 180 degree travel, thus, from nothing to full was extremely fast, with a dexterous flick of the wrist.

Here are some photos for the TD7, the DRD5 and the RP2:
http://www.orbem.co.uk/grams/grams_1.htm
The home page there has the names of the authors ? it might be pertinent to contact and establish that you could use the images for your talk. 

I found this on You Tube, about restringing a Mole Richardson boom!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k9VMrPbCvA
However, a story from TV Theatre days, around 1962-3 ? Mike Cotton, a fairly large chap was working the side set boom, a mini Fisher, which was pivoted on the dress circle rail. To get the proper operating height, Mike stood on a green canvas chair, which gave under his weight. Grabbing for a handhold, the inside boom arm, the extending bit, turned a complete 360 degrees, with horrendous twanging noises ? the racking cables had come adrift! With half an hour before live transmission, there was no time to get mechanical maintenance down from TVC, so Mike and I took the thing to pieces on the back floor of the circle and managed to refix the interior racking cables ? think I got pretty competent, very quickly!
Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alec Bray via Tech1
Sent: 17 August 2019 09:06
To: Tech Ops
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully received!

Hi everyone,

On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams decks, 
but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be on 
interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks,
Stringing on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502






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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sat Aug 17 11:47:44 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 17:47:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] 1939 Boom
In-Reply-To: <001001d551aa$14fa3610$3eeea230$@gmail.com>
References: <001001d551aa$14fa3610$3eeea230$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d582fb1.1c69fb81.3899d.dfdb@mx.google.com>

Hi Bill, can?t help on the boom, it looks a bit heavy-duty!
Wonder if the mike might be a BBC Type B:
http://www.orbem.co.uk/mics/typeb.htm

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bill Jenkin via Tech1
Sent: 13 August 2019 08:38
To: co. uk email group
Subject: [Tech1] 1939 Boom

This still is from a BBC Archive Facebook page post. It is of a production of ?Mr Jones Dines Out? which went out on 13th August 1939. 
I was wondering if any of you sound chaps know what sort of boom that is also the mic being used. 
Bill Jenkin



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From mibridge at mac.com  Sat Aug 17 14:35:21 2019
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 20:35:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>

Hi Alec,

The main Bristol radio edit suite had BTR2s with outrigger transports which allowed a choice of two feed spools and two take up spools in any combination. This was very convenient for slotting in re-takes as it wasn?t necessary to keep re-loading the feed spool. There was also a null position on each selector switch, which meant that the spool on either side could be made stationary, very useful when playing unwanted material onto the floor, for example, without having to keep a hand on the other spool to stop it spinning.

One of the favourite tasks was emptying used plastic spools from the morning news programme ~ the BTR2 fast wind speed was impressive and by winding the unwanted tape onto the take-up centre, without a reel on it, a very compact wind could be achieved ~ very solid and quite satisfying to throw in the bin, but occasionally the tape would flip upwards, with an impressive spiral of the brown stuff flying skywards.

My recollection is that the BTR2 was by far the best editing machine when equipped with outriggers and by far the best for achieving a neat high speed wind, by putting a half twist on each side of the head stack, giving two benefits ~ the oxide side wasn?t  being dragged over the heads, and the twists meant that the air between successive layers of tape was expelled evenly. All too often a high speed wind on whatever machine without the twists would result in an uneven result, with leaves of tape sticking up which were prone to being damaged in transit ~ particularly serious when stereo came along as edge damage would cause the image to wander.

The final bonus with the BTR2s was the generous amplifier cabinet, which provided ample storage for sandwiches if you wanted them warmed!

Vari-speed was mentioned by somebody. Not specific to the BTR2, it was not uncommon for the replay operator on a live radio insert to feed a short piece of editing tape onto the capstan, during transmission, to shorten the duration of a programme by a few seconds when the producer was nervous that the timing from a last minute edit session was not entirely accurate! We could speed things up, but not slow them down.

Mike G





> On 17 Aug 2019, at 17:40, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Something that might be of interest regarding the grams turntables.
> In the very early days, Lime Grove galleries were fitted with 78rpm turntables (TD7), with radial tracking pickups, and old-fashioned steel needles. It being impossible to back track the discs, one had to groove count before the mod of the effect happened, either by counting turns from the run in, or by gently clicking the needle from groove to groove, on pre-hear. If you got it wrong, it was either late, or halfway through! Later, the DRD5, equipped with a stereo stylus that had vertical compliance, allowed the disc to be rotated backwards from the start of the effect and so cued in with a bit of anticipation. This seems to be the mainstay of the exponents of today?s scratching DJ artistry, but let?s face it, chaps, it?s not new!
> The turntables with which TVC sound control were equipped (RP2), were a dual unit, usually two of these, providing 4 turntables. These were modified Garrard 301s and the modification was that the bottom bearing for the turntable spindle was fitted with an electric cam which could raise the turntable up until it connected with an aluminium plate upon which the disc rested. Thus, with the turntable already spinning, pretty fast starts could be achieved as the support disc came up to speed quickly. At 78rpm, and initially all the BBC Sound effects discs were at that speed, (7? 33 1/3 microgroove came in the later 60?s), the disc could be backtracked to a quarter of a revolution from the start of the mod, stereo stylus again, and with a bit of anticipation, the effect could be spot cued.
> They were also vari-speed, the correct setting being achieved with strobe holes on the extreme edge of the aluminium disc, a 50Hz neon lamp underneath. When the ?holes? appeared stationary, that was the correct speed. One point of interest: the BBC rotary faders had a 180 degree travel, thus, from nothing to full was extremely fast, with a dexterous flick of the wrist.
>  
> Here are some photos for the TD7, the DRD5 and the RP2:
> http://www.orbem.co.uk/grams/grams_1.htm <http://www.orbem.co.uk/grams/grams_1.htm>
> The home page there has the names of the authors ? it might be pertinent to contact and establish that you could use the images for your talk.
>  
> I found this on You Tube, about restringing a Mole Richardson boom!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k9VMrPbCvA <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k9VMrPbCvA>
> However, a story from TV Theatre days, around 1962-3 ? Mike Cotton, a fairly large chap was working the side set boom, a mini Fisher, which was pivoted on the dress circle rail. To get the proper operating height, Mike stood on a green canvas chair, which gave under his weight. Grabbing for a handhold, the inside boom arm, the extending bit, turned a complete 360 degrees, with horrendous twanging noises ? the racking cables had come adrift! With half an hour before live transmission, there was no time to get mechanical maintenance down from TVC, so Mike and I took the thing to pieces on the back floor of the circle and managed to refix the interior racking cables ? think I got pretty competent, very quickly!
> Best
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>  
> From: Alec Bray via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Sent: 17 August 2019 09:06
> To: Tech Ops <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully received!
>  
> Hi everyone,
>  
> On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams decks,
> but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be on
> interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks,
> Stringing on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...
>  
> Best Regards
>  
> Alec
>  
> Alec Bray
>  
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
>  <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>	Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> <x-msg://7/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>-- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
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From tonynuttall at me.com  Sat Aug 17 15:16:16 2019
From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 20:16:16 GMT
Subject: [Tech1] If your are talking BTR2 do not forget the SAVAGE BAY!!!
Message-ID: <f154f9af-2f8a-40af-a14b-f3755396613b@me.com>

The SAVAGE BAY, very good for heating sandwiches!!

http://www.bbceng.info/ti/non-eqpt/TI_R8_Power%20Supplies%20To%20Recording%20Areas.pdf

Very useful when your choir sings off key!

Tony Nuttall in the Wilds of Cumbria
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 17 16:12:44 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 22:12:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Name the extra
Message-ID: <3efa6469-b247-81ad-3a49-b70cde82caf2@gmail.com>

Mainly because I can't remember



In S1 EP2 of Target

B
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From relong at btinternet.com  Sat Aug 17 16:55:26 2019
From: relong at btinternet.com (Roger E Long)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 22:55:26 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <A193439D-F863-4C0A-A48E-10A14035578B@btinternet.com>

We had the Titan on Snow Goose with Jenny Agutter and Richard Harris
Shooting in the wetlands of Frinton on Sea,it became bogged down
Harris had not signed his contract but if we overran it would have cost a fortune for ABC the co producer with the beeb
It was the last day, they decided to leave the Titan to the mercy of the sea, however we finished before the tide came fully in
The army turned up with a Mighty Antar tank recovery tractor and pulled it out of the mud, destroying all the drive shafts to the electric motors
Shortly after that the other Titan went over a cliff in Norfolk on Hugh Hudsons 1776 epic?
I loved the BTR II for editing at Bush ,we had the outriggers and the variable speed units
The latter brilliant for phasing and phlanging  on night shift
Adding splicing tape to the capstan to increase the speed was something I did with my Rosetti tape echo, simple tape loop with the replay head on a rotating drum, with the tape on the captan I could replicate 30 its slap echo a la Sun recordings
This could also be done on a Nagra III by pressing the accelerate button on record!

Roger

> On 17 Aug 2019, at 20:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi Alec,
> 
> The main Bristol radio edit suite had BTR2s with outrigger transports which allowed a choice of two feed spools and two take up spools in any combination. This was very convenient for slotting in re-takes as it wasn?t necessary to keep re-loading the feed spool. There was also a null position on each selector switch, which meant that the spool on either side could be made stationary, very useful when playing unwanted material onto the floor, for example, without having to keep a hand on the other spool to stop it spinning.
> 
> One of the favourite tasks was emptying used plastic spools from the morning news programme ~ the BTR2 fast wind speed was impressive and by winding the unwanted tape onto the take-up centre, without a reel on it, a very compact wind could be achieved ~ very solid and quite satisfying to throw in the bin, but occasionally the tape would flip upwards, with an impressive spiral of the brown stuff flying skywards.
> 
> My recollection is that the BTR2 was by far the best editing machine when equipped with outriggers and by far the best for achieving a neat high speed wind, by putting a half twist on each side of the head stack, giving two benefits ~ the oxide side wasn?t  being dragged over the heads, and the twists meant that the air between successive layers of tape was expelled evenly. All too often a high speed wind on whatever machine without the twists would result in an uneven result, with leaves of tape sticking up which were prone to being damaged in transit ~ particularly serious when stereo came along as edge damage would cause the image to wander.
> 
> The final bonus with the BTR2s was the generous amplifier cabinet, which provided ample storage for sandwiches if you wanted them warmed!
> 
> Vari-speed was mentioned by somebody. Not specific to the BTR2, it was not uncommon for the replay operator on a live radio insert to feed a short piece of editing tape onto the capstan, during transmission, to shorten the duration of a programme by a few seconds when the producer was nervous that the timing from a last minute edit session was not entirely accurate! We could speed things up, but not slow them down.
> 
> Mike G
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 17 Aug 2019, at 17:40, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>> 
>> Something that might be of interest regarding the grams turntables.
>> In the very early days, Lime Grove galleries were fitted with 78rpm turntables (TD7), with radial tracking pickups, and old-fashioned steel needles. It being impossible to back track the discs, one had to groove count before the mod of the effect happened, either by counting turns from the run in, or by gently clicking the needle from groove to groove, on pre-hear. If you got it wrong, it was either late, or halfway through! Later, the DRD5, equipped with a stereo stylus that had vertical compliance, allowed the disc to be rotated backwards from the start of the effect and so cued in with a bit of anticipation. This seems to be the mainstay of the exponents of today?s scratching DJ artistry, but let?s face it, chaps, it?s not new!
>> The turntables with which TVC sound control were equipped (RP2), were a dual unit, usually two of these, providing 4 turntables. These were modified Garrard 301s and the modification was that the bottom bearing for the turntable spindle was fitted with an electric cam which could raise the turntable up until it connected with an aluminium plate upon which the disc rested. Thus, with the turntable already spinning, pretty fast starts could be achieved as the support disc came up to speed quickly. At 78rpm, and initially all the BBC Sound effects discs were at that speed, (7? 33 1/3 microgroove came in the later 60?s), the disc could be backtracked to a quarter of a revolution from the start of the mod, stereo stylus again, and with a bit of anticipation, the effect could be spot cued.
>> They were also vari-speed, the correct setting being achieved with strobe holes on the extreme edge of the aluminium disc, a 50Hz neon lamp underneath. When the ?holes? appeared stationary, that was the correct speed. One point of interest: the BBC rotary faders had a 180 degree travel, thus, from nothing to full was extremely fast, with a dexterous flick of the wrist.
>>  
>> Here are some photos for the TD7, the DRD5 and the RP2:
>> http://www.orbem.co.uk/grams/grams_1.htm <http://www.orbem.co.uk/grams/grams_1.htm>
>> The home page there has the names of the authors ? it might be pertinent to contact and establish that you could use the images for your talk.
>>  
>> I found this on You Tube, about restringing a Mole Richardson boom!
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k9VMrPbCvA <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k9VMrPbCvA>
>> However, a story from TV Theatre days, around 1962-3 ? Mike Cotton, a fairly large chap was working the side set boom, a mini Fisher, which was pivoted on the dress circle rail. To get the proper operating height, Mike stood on a green canvas chair, which gave under his weight. Grabbing for a handhold, the inside boom arm, the extending bit, turned a complete 360 degrees, with horrendous twanging noises ? the racking cables had come adrift! With half an hour before live transmission, there was no time to get mechanical maintenance down from TVC, so Mike and I took the thing to pieces on the back floor of the circle and managed to refix the interior racking cables ? think I got pretty competent, very quickly!
>> Best
>> Pat
>>  
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>>  
>> From: Alec Bray via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Sent: 17 August 2019 09:06
>> To: Tech Ops <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully received!
>>  
>> Hi everyone,
>>  
>> On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams decks,
>> but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be on
>> interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks,
>> Stringing on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...
>>  
>> Best Regards
>>  
>> Alec
>>  
>> Alec Bray
>>  
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com <mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
>> mob:    07789 561 346
>> home:   0118 981 7502
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>>  <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>	Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> <x-msg://7/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>-- 
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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Sat Aug 17 17:19:54 2019
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 23:19:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>

 ??? Here's a photo for those unfamiliar with the BTR2 taken at 
Woodnorton in Spring 1963, apologies if you've seen it previously.

I heard that Percy Guy would test the abilities of trainee engineers by 
swapping the top cap clips of the first two valves in the replay amp 
converting the machine into a loud uncontrollable audio oscillator.

He would also stand in front of the monitor speaker and ask why the poor 
lad's recording has suddenly become muffled!

John H.



On 17/08/2019 20:35, Mike Giles via Tech1 wrote:
> Hi Alec,
>
> The main Bristol radio edit suite had BTR2s with outrigger transports 
> which allowed a choice of two feed spools and two take up spools in 
> any combination. This was very convenient for slotting in re-takes as 
> it wasn?t necessary to keep re-loading the feed spool. There was also 
> a null position on each selector switch, which meant that the?spool on 
> either side could be made stationary, very useful when playing 
> unwanted material onto the floor, for example, without having to keep 
> a hand on the other spool to stop it spinning.
>
> One of the favourite tasks was emptying used plastic spools from the 
> morning news programme ~ the BTR2 fast wind speed was impressive and 
> by winding the unwanted tape onto the take-up centre, without a reel 
> on it, a very compact wind could be achieved ~ very solid and quite 
> satisfying to throw in the bin, but occasionally the tape would flip 
> upwards, with an impressive spiral of the brown stuff flying skywards.
>
> My recollection is that the BTR2 was by far the best editing machine 
> when equipped with outriggers and by far the best for achieving a neat 
> high speed wind, by putting a half twist on each side of the head 
> stack, giving two benefits ~ the oxide side wasn?t ?being dragged over 
> the heads, and the twists meant that the air between successive layers 
> of tape was expelled evenly. All too often a high speed wind on 
> whatever machine without the twists would result in an uneven result, 
> with leaves of tape sticking up which were prone to being damaged in 
> transit ~ particularly serious when stereo came along as edge damage 
> would cause the image to wander.
>
> The final bonus with the BTR2s was the generous amplifier cabinet, 
> which provided ample storage for sandwiches if you wanted them warmed!
>
> Vari-speed was mentioned by somebody. Not specific to the BTR2, it was 
> not uncommon for the replay operator on a live radio insert to feed a 
> short piece of editing tape onto the capstan, during transmission, to 
> shorten the duration of a programme by a few seconds when the producer 
> was nervous that the timing from a last minute edit session was not 
> entirely accurate! We could speed things up, but not slow them down.
>
> Mike G
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 17 Aug 2019, at 17:40, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
>> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> Something that might be of interest regarding the grams turntables.
>> In the/very/early days, Lime Grove galleries were fitted with 78rpm 
>> turntables (TD7), with radial tracking pickups, and old-fashioned 
>> steel needles. It being impossible to back track the discs, one had 
>> to groove count before the mod of the effect happened, either by 
>> counting turns from the run in, or by gently clicking the needle from 
>> groove to groove, on pre-hear. If you got it wrong, it was either 
>> late, or halfway through! Later, the DRD5, equipped with a stereo 
>> stylus that had vertical compliance, allowed the disc to be rotated 
>> backwards from the start of the effect and so cued in with a bit of 
>> anticipation. This seems to be the mainstay of the exponents of 
>> today?s scratching DJ artistry, but let?s face it, chaps, it?s not new!
>> The turntables with which TVC sound control were equipped (RP2), were 
>> a dual unit, usually two of these, providing 4 turntables. These were 
>> modified Garrard 301s and the modification was that the bottom 
>> bearing for the turntable spindle was fitted with an electric cam 
>> which could raise the turntable up until it connected with an 
>> aluminium plate upon which the disc rested. Thus, with the turntable 
>> already spinning, pretty fast starts could be achieved as the support 
>> disc came up to speed quickly. At 78rpm, and initially all the BBC 
>> Sound effects discs were at that speed, (7? 33 1/3 microgroove came 
>> in the later 60?s), the disc could be backtracked to a quarter of a 
>> revolution from the start of the mod, stereo stylus again, and with a 
>> bit of anticipation, the effect could be spot cued.
>> They were also vari-speed, the correct setting being achieved with 
>> strobe holes on the extreme edge of the aluminium disc, a 50Hz neon 
>> lamp underneath. When the ?holes? appeared stationary, that was the 
>> correct speed. One point of interest: the BBC rotary faders had a 180 
>> degree travel, thus, from nothing to full was extremely fast, with a 
>> dexterous flick of the wrist.
>> Here are some photos for the TD7, the DRD5 and the RP2:
>> http://www.orbem.co.uk/grams/grams_1.htm
>> The home page there has the names of the authors ? it might be 
>> pertinent to contact and establish that you could use the images for 
>> your talk.
>> I found this on You Tube, about restringing a Mole Richardson boom!
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k9VMrPbCvA
>> However, a story from TV Theatre days, around 1962-3 ? Mike Cotton, a 
>> fairly large chap was working the side set boom, a mini Fisher, which 
>> was pivoted on the dress circle rail. To get the proper operating 
>> height, Mike stood on a green canvas chair, which gave under his 
>> weight. Grabbing for a handhold, the inside boom arm, the extending 
>> bit, turned a complete 360 degrees, with horrendous twanging noises ? 
>> the racking cables had come adrift! With half an hour before live 
>> transmission, there was no time to get mechanical maintenance down 
>> from TVC, so Mike and I took the thing to pieces on the back floor of 
>> the circle and managed to refix the interior racking cables ? think I 
>> got pretty competent, very quickly!
>> Best
>> Pat
>> Sent fromMail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>for 
>> Windows 10
>> *From:*Alec Bray via Tech1 <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Sent:*17 August 2019 09:06
>> *To:*Tech Ops <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> *Subject:*[Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully 
>> received!
>> Hi everyone,
>> On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams decks,
>> but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be on
>> interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks,
>> Stringing on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...
>> Best Regards
>> Alec
>> Alec Bray
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com <mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com>
>> mob: 07789 561 346
>> home: 0118 981 7502
>>
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>> 	Virus-free.www.avast.com 
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
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From waresound at msn.com  Sun Aug 18 06:41:26 2019
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 11:41:26 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>,
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I actually owned a BTR2 at one point, albeit briefly. At least, not the whole beast, but just the deck portion. In a moment of folly I took it in lieu of payment for work I did at a certain pirate radio station whose name I won?t mention. I vaguely thought I might build a record-replay amp inside it, using the Mullard type C (I think it was known as) valve record-replay circuitry, and custom chassis metalwork from Useekia (remember them?). Or maybe convert it into a spin dryer. Luckily I was saved the trouble, thanks to a Philips Pro-20 that came into my life as a gift, just in the nick of time. I think it was by Divine intervention, and I literally grew to love the Pro-20. Now that really *was* an excellent editing machine, thanks to pressure sensitive forward and rewind spool buttons and pneumatically damped braking. Mechanically it had to be good: it was designed for use with hubs and plates, not reels! With help from John Hartshorn I fitted narrow guard-band stereo ferrite heads and converted it from NAB to CCIR. It went on to master quite a few records thereafter.
Isn?t it bizarre to think that a huge beast of ironmongery (the BTR2) could only record 30 mins of mono, whereas now I have in front of me a near pocket-sized Zoom F8n that can record 262 hours of ten tracks, and way better quality, on a card the size of a postage stamp? And isn?t it intriguing to wonder what the next fifty years might bring (assuming that the next fifty years survives imminent political and environmental catastrophies)?
Happy days,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad

On 17 Aug 2019, at 23:20, John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:


    Here's a photo for those unfamiliar with the BTR2 taken at Woodnorton in Spring 1963, apologies if you've seen it previously.

I heard that Percy Guy would test the abilities of trainee engineers by swapping the top cap clips of the first two valves in the replay amp converting the machine into a loud uncontrollable audio oscillator.

He would also stand in front of the monitor speaker and ask why the poor lad's recording has suddenly become muffled!

John H.





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<BTR2.jpg>
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From dave at davesound.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 07:18:26 2019
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 13:18:26 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <57e5773822dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article
<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90 at VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
   Nick Ware via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Isn?t it bizarre to think that a huge beast of ironmongery (the BTR2)
> could only record 30 mins of mono, whereas now I have in front of me a
> near pocket-sized Zoom F8n that can record 262 hours of ten tracks, and
> way better quality, on a card the size of a postage stamp? And isn?t it
> intriguing to wonder what the next fifty years might bring (assuming
> that the next fifty years survives imminent political and environmental
> catastrophies)?

Was just thinking similar. 'New' car has a USB input. As well as a single
CD player in the head unit. Got a tiny USB stick and now have some 50 CDs
on that - albeit MP3 - with room for more. And have the CD title and track
details come up on the head unit screen. Other car has a 10 CD player
which is vast. ;-) And no CD info.

-- 
*Why do we say something is out of whack?  What is a whack? *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 09:35:17 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 15:35:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 18/08/2019 12:41, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> ....a Philips Pro-20 that came into my life as a gift, just in the 
> nick of time. I think it was by Divine intervention, and I literally 
> grew to love the Pro-20. Now that really *was* an excellent editing 
> machine, thanks to pressure sensitive forward and rewind spool buttons 
> and pneumatically damped braking. Mechanically it had to be good: it 
> was designed for use with hubs and plates, not reels!

UK designed tape recorders stopped at the point where simple voltage 
control of spool motors and mains synchrony capstans were the norm. 
Philips, Studer, Ampex and others recognised the need to use more 
sophisticated servo control, and developed the techniques to deal with 
that. We never caught up. We could manage the (often rather heavy) 
mechanics tolerably well but the more refined Nagra-like engineering and 
the brilliance of high speed servos was sadly beyond British vision.

I can remember using early Ampex video recorders C1971 that could keep 
1" tape perfectly wrapped around a drum and moving in frame sync without 
any pinch roller - just brilliant servos that controlled tape tension 
perfectly at any speed from a one frame inch to a staggering full-speed 
spooling.

Chris Woolf


---
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From waresound at msn.com  Sun Aug 18 13:34:19 2019
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 18:34:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271A1FF5F0FDC3FAF4209E3A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Post script on the Pro-20:
The last job it ever did was to feed 1/8? ferric oxide cassette duplicating tape from an 11 inch hub onto all my ageing Nagra SN reels. A job it did effortlessly, once I?d made a centre piece to hold the latter. After that, because I couldn?t find a home for it, and it had sat in my garage neglected for ten more years, it went into the electrical waste recycling skip. A painful experience. I sometimes wonder if it?s still there under a mountain of landfill not far from here.
Here it is (was) in the attached piccy. Anyone care to name the person in the pic?
Cheers,
Nick.
[image1.jpeg]

Sent from my iPad

On 18 Aug 2019, at 15:36, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:


On 18/08/2019 12:41, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
....a Philips Pro-20 that came into my life as a gift, just in the nick of time. I think it was by Divine intervention, and I literally grew to love the Pro-20. Now that really *was* an excellent editing machine, thanks to pressure sensitive forward and rewind spool buttons and pneumatically damped braking. Mechanically it had to be good: it was designed for use with hubs and plates, not reels!

UK designed tape recorders stopped at the point where simple voltage control of spool motors and mains synchrony capstans were the norm. Philips, Studer, Ampex and others recognised the need to use more sophisticated servo control, and developed the techniques to deal with that. We never caught up. We could manage the (often rather heavy) mechanics tolerably well but the more refined Nagra-like engineering and the brilliance of high speed servos was sadly beyond British vision.

I can remember using early Ampex video recorders C1971 that could keep 1" tape perfectly wrapped around a drum and moving in frame sync without any pinch roller - just brilliant servos that controlled tape tension perfectly at any speed from a one frame inch to a staggering full-speed spooling.

Chris Woolf


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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sun Aug 18 14:22:56 2019
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 20:22:56 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271A1FF5F0FDC3FAF4209E3A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com><5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com><5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com><5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk><VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM><f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB0271A1FF5F0FDC3FAF4209E3A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <314CB937BB7C47ABBA6B35911AACCFE0@Gigabyte>

Absolutely typical BBC set-up!
Lots of Eddystone bodge boxes and I spy a Din to something box at rear and a home made meter box and looped through Bulgin little mains socket power cable!
All good stuff.

Reminder of the D&S plugs with fuses that worked loose and stayed in the sockets of the wallboxes. As seen at the Amberley Museum (fab place) yesterday whilst visting the setup for the revival of MCR21 ? not forgetting the line send unit from an OBA/8 also there.

Mike

From: Nick Ware via Tech1 
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2019 7:34 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully received!

Post script on the Pro-20: 
The last job it ever did was to feed 1/8? ferric oxide cassette duplicating tape from an 11 inch hub onto all my ageing Nagra SN reels. A job it did effortlessly, once I?d made a centre piece to hold the latter. After that, because I couldn?t find a home for it, and it had sat in my garage neglected for ten more years, it went into the electrical waste recycling skip. A painful experience. I sometimes wonder if it?s still there under a mountain of landfill not far from here.
Here it is (was) in the attached piccy. Anyone care to name the person in the pic?
Cheers,
Nick.



 
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Aug 18 14:36:05 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 20:36:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc
 gratefullyreceived!
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271A1FF5F0FDC3FAF4209E3A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB0271A1FF5F0FDC3FAF4209E3A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <5d59a8a6.1c69fb81.55212.e3f4@mx.google.com>

Brian Roberts?

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: 18 August 2019 19:34
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefullyreceived!

Post script on the Pro-20: 
The last job it ever did was to feed 1/8? ferric oxide cassette duplicating tape from an 11 inch hub onto all my ageing Nagra SN reels. A job it did effortlessly, once I?d made a centre piece to hold the latter. After that, because I couldn?t find a home for it, and it had sat in my garage neglected for ten more years, it went into the electrical waste recycling skip. A painful experience. I sometimes wonder if it?s still there under a mountain of landfill not far from here.
Here it is (was) in the attached piccy. Anyone care to name the person in the pic?
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad

On 18 Aug 2019, at 15:36, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

On 18/08/2019 12:41, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:

....a Philips Pro-20 that came into my life as a gift, just in the nick of time. I think it was by Divine intervention, and I literally grew to love the Pro-20. Now that really *was* an excellent editing machine, thanks to pressure sensitive forward and rewind spool buttons and pneumatically damped braking. Mechanically it had to be good: it was designed for use with hubs and plates, not reels!

UK designed tape recorders stopped at the point where simple voltage control of spool motors and mains synchrony capstans were the norm. Philips, Studer, Ampex and others recognised the need to use more sophisticated servo control, and developed the techniques to deal with that. We never caught up. We could manage the (often rather heavy) mechanics tolerably well but the more refined Nagra-like engineering and the brilliance of high speed servos was sadly beyond British vision.

I can remember using early Ampex video recorders C1971 that could keep 1" tape perfectly wrapped around a drum and moving in frame sync without any pinch roller - just brilliant servos that controlled tape tension perfectly at any speed from a one frame inch to a staggering full-speed spooling.

Chris Woolf


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Tech1 mailing list
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http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Aug 18 15:24:04 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 21:24:04 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc
 gratefullyreceived!
In-Reply-To: <314CB937BB7C47ABBA6B35911AACCFE0@Gigabyte>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com><5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com><5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com><5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk><VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM><f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB0271A1FF5F0FDC3FAF4209E3A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<314CB937BB7C47ABBA6B35911AACCFE0@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <5d59b3e4.1c69fb81.4bdec.beea@mx.google.com>

Ah! Those blessed D & S plugs ? only fitted the tech supply in the control rooms (stabilised voltage and frequency?)
Had an unpleasant experience ? leaning across two TR90 decks with a hand on each, I received a belt across my chest, and picked myself off the floor. Turned out that the earth wire had become detached inside the plug and somehow shorted to the live pin ? on both plugs! But it only took one for me to complete the earthing via me!
The BBC were very concerned and after checking my heart rate, sent me home in a taxi ? they didn?t want me to risk driving, so I had to come in the next day to retrieve my car.
Avoiding a possible huge claim if I had had an accident, I suppose.
No idea why the fuse hadn?t blown.
As I was working on Dr.Who for some years in LG, I was able to insist on TR90?s in the gallery, but I witnessed the delivery people unloading a machine from the lorry, by pulling it straight out the back, where it fell 3 or 4 feet to the pavement. Just as well they were sturdily built, no thanks to the porters, who exhibited no care at all. No tail-lifts in those days.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Mike Jordan via Tech1
Sent: 18 August 2019 20:23
To: Nick Ware; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully received!

Reminder of the D&S plugs with fuses that worked loose and stayed in the sockets of the wallboxes.
?
Mike
?




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https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Aug 18 15:36:38 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2019 21:36:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc
 gratefullyreceived!
In-Reply-To: <57e5773822dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<57e5773822dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5d59b6d5.1c69fb81.d9929.e812@mx.google.com>

Something else to get steamed up about, Dave:
https://www.petrolprices.com/news/mps-want-to-ban-hands-free-devices-in-cars/

Not even music is safe, apparently.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 18 August 2019 13:23
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefullyreceived!


Was just thinking similar. 'New' car has a USB input. As well as a single
CD player in the head unit. Got a tiny USB stick and now have some 50 CDs
on that - albeit MP3 - with room for more. And have the CD title and track
details come up on the head unit screen. Other car has a 10 CD player
which is vast. ;-) And no CD info.




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From phider at gmx.com  Sun Aug 18 18:19:34 2019
From: phider at gmx.com (Mr P.J.Hider)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 00:19:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Name the extra
Message-ID: <b1rpydnokwm0t269phm2l1dp.1566170374739@email.android.com>

Sorry Bernie my memory did a somersault.

The extra's name is Billy Gray and it was his brother Monsieur Eddie Gray who was in the Crazy Gang.

Best
Peter 

From Waresound at msn.com  Mon Aug 19 01:47:25 2019
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 06:47:25 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <B509AB1398534CFFB74FC68817B18D04@dell9100>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com><5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com><5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com><5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk><VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM><f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB0271A1FF5F0FDC3FAF4209E3A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<B509AB1398534CFFB74FC68817B18D04@dell9100>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02715AC461F1BA9282ECF025A7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

It is Brian - a regular Disorganised lunch-goer. Only the hair colour has changed!
Nick.

Sent from my iPad

On 18 Aug 2019, at 22:07, Chris on gmail <jccglass at gmail.com<mailto:jccglass at gmail.com>> wrote:

Brian Roberts?

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From Waresound at msn.com  Mon Aug 19 02:41:29 2019
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 07:41:29 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <314CB937BB7C47ABBA6B35911AACCFE0@Gigabyte>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com><5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com><5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com><5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk><VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM><f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB0271A1FF5F0FDC3FAF4209E3A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<314CB937BB7C47ABBA6B35911AACCFE0@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271923645D01BBBB390D00DA7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I had been taught well! The mixer was home made in an Imhof case, the phantom power supply (Eddystone Box) was a new-fangled idea that hadn?t yet found its way inside mixers, and the LNE mains connector had yet to be invented (and even that was quickly condemned as safe only for fixed installation use because nobody could agree on which half was male and which was female).
And to crown all, the A77 had lots of exposed metal parts and only a 2pin mains input connector.
But thankfully, Health and Safety (employer?s liability limitation) had yet to be invented too.
Cheers,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad

On 18 Aug 2019, at 20:23, Mike Jordan <mikej at bmanor.co.uk<mailto:mikej at bmanor.co.uk>> wrote:

Absolutely typical BBC set-up!
Lots of Eddystone bodge boxes and I spy a Din to something box at rear and a home made meter box and looped through Bulgin little mains socket power cable!
All good stuff.

Reminder of the D&S plugs with fuses that worked loose and stayed in the sockets of the wallboxes. As seen at the Amberley Museum (fab place) yesterday whilst visting the setup for the revival of MCR21 ? not forgetting the line send unit from an OBA/8 also there.

Mike

From: Nick Ware via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2019 7:34 PM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully received!

Post script on the Pro-20:
The last job it ever did was to feed 1/8? ferric oxide cassette duplicating tape from an 11 inch hub onto all my ageing Nagra SN reels. A job it did effortlessly, once I?d made a centre piece to hold the latter. After that, because I couldn?t find a home for it, and it had sat in my garage neglected for ten more years, it went into the electrical waste recycling skip. A painful experience. I sometimes wonder if it?s still there under a mountain of landfill not far from here.
Here it is (was) in the attached piccy. Anyone care to name the person in the pic?
Cheers,
Nick.



<DSC01843_s.jpg>
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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Mon Aug 19 03:34:21 2019
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 09:34:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271923645D01BBBB390D00DA7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com><5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com><5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com><5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk><VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM><f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk><VI1P192MB0271A1FF5F0FDC3FAF4209E3A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<314CB937BB7C47ABBA6B35911AACCFE0@Gigabyte>
	<VI1P192MB0271923645D01BBBB390D00DA7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <6DC994E7B5DF494CB1ABD8D277272431@Gigabyte>

I suspect that BBC used the mains LNE the way the did to follow tradition where mic o/ps were on pins (smoother fit into a handle without the release mechanism) and the LNEs were similar  with the release bit on cable ends although carrying signal (volts) in the other direction. The termination panels would then be same and fit either type in same slot
When the 5A ones were required, a simple upsizing meant that the live pins would then be accessible to a ?British standard baby?s finger? so ends swapped around.
Some places (TVI in Windmill street) used mains LNEs the other (correct?) way round so if taking BBC mains leads with test equipment when I used to check out their circuits to BH, one had to take ones own cables or plugging in, ended up with a live 13A mains plug!
All new learning with Speakons and Powercons. Lets not forget OB 80A power connectors and cable.
Was at the MCR21 exhibition at Amberley on Saturday and pleased to say the EP4 mains lead lying around there had the compulsory green earth cable back to the shell as they had no secure connection from allocated earth pin to the case!
EP4s could be good as splitters and EP6 was sued to provide lines connections at OB sites for the ?Commentators Operated Outside Broadcast Equipment? (COOBE) connection to GPO lines.

Mike

From: Nick Ware via Tech1 
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2019 8:41 AM
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully received!

I had been taught well! The mixer was home made in an Imhof case, the phantom power supply (Eddystone Box) was a new-fangled idea that hadn?t yet found its way inside mixers, and the LNE mains connector had yet to be invented (and even that was quickly condemned as safe only for fixed installation use because nobody could agree on which half was male and which was female). 
And to crown all, the A77 had lots of exposed metal parts and only a 2pin mains input connector.
But thankfully, Health and Safety (employer?s liability limitation) had yet to be invented too.
Cheers, 
Nick.

Sent from my iPad
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 19 03:37:22 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 09:37:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc
 gratefullyreceived!
In-Reply-To: <5d59b6d5.1c69fb81.d9929.e812@mx.google.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<57e5773822dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<5d59b6d5.1c69fb81.d9929.e812@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <9ccbae24-c2ed-f36b-7c28-4ac98d41b011@ntlworld.com>

I've heard of threads deviating from their purpose, but.......

Can anyone help Alec with some mechanical details about peds and the 
like for his lecture?

B


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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 19 03:39:15 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 09:39:15 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Name the extra
In-Reply-To: <b1rpydnokwm0t269phm2l1dp.1566170374739@email.android.com>
References: <b1rpydnokwm0t269phm2l1dp.1566170374739@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <0e258c2d-c0f4-6002-56ce-5d0e5d8c6b80@ntlworld.com>

Yes - thank you to Peter, and others who told me. One of those things of 
old age I think - you know the face, but the name has gone somewhere 
into the woodwork.

B


On 19/08/2019 00:19, Mr P.J.Hider wrote:
> Sorry Bernie my memory did a somersault.
>
> The extra's name is Billy Gray and it was his brother Monsieur Eddie Gray who was in the Crazy Gang.
>
> Best
> Peter

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From waresound at msn.com  Mon Aug 19 03:58:37 2019
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 08:58:37 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc
 gratefullyreceived!
In-Reply-To: <9ccbae24-c2ed-f36b-7c28-4ac98d41b011@ntlworld.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<57e5773822dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<5d59b6d5.1c69fb81.d9929.e812@mx.google.com>,
	<9ccbae24-c2ed-f36b-7c28-4ac98d41b011@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02719BF44FAB5753F412FB83A7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Suitably ticked off, especially as Vinten peds aren?t even electric!
N.x
Sent from my iPad

On 19 Aug 2019, at 09:37, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

I've heard of threads deviating from their purpose, but.......

Can anyone help Alec with some mechanical details about peds and the like for his lecture?

B


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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Aug 19 04:25:42 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 10:25:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc
 gratefullyreceived!
In-Reply-To: <9ccbae24-c2ed-f36b-7c28-4ac98d41b011@ntlworld.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<57e5773822dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<5d59b6d5.1c69fb81.d9929.e812@mx.google.com>
	<9ccbae24-c2ed-f36b-7c28-4ac98d41b011@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <0c2ad4de-d35d-1a9c-298b-31151a5aef15@chriswoolf.co.uk>

I have;}

But some of it was done privately...

Chris Woolf


On 19/08/2019 09:37, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 wrote:
> I've heard of threads deviating from their purpose, but.......
>
> Can anyone help Alec with some mechanical details about peds and the 
> like for his lecture?
>
> B
>
>
>


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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Aug 19 04:43:06 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 10:43:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <71494e53-5488-6b5d-3a59-bb3b5f21cb7a@gmail.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<4695ddb2-4aa4-14f3-8048-e800aed55236@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<4a022f82-c7ef-5ccd-ad76-5683df1da9d7@gmail.com>
	<d53a1f8f-82fe-fba3-82a3-63e290c10a82@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<71494e53-5488-6b5d-3a59-bb3b5f21cb7a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <706fdcdd-01ee-4113-8f83-0196bd204591@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Hullo Alec, (and the public list again this time),

Ah yes, that picture jogs the memory effectively. But I don't think it 
is/was a pump. That looks exactly like a standard hydraulic valve, so I 
think the column is a classic ram and a hydraulic shove from the 
accumulator. In all probability single-acting with the oil returned to 
the reservoir to allow the column to drop under gravity.

I've had a little to do with hydraulics in scissor lifts, tractors, 
diggers and helicopter undercarriages, which is where my rudimentary 
understanding comes from;}

I think the early peds used gas pressure as I've mentioned but 
pressurising oil to move the columns. That maybe was because sealing oil 
is easier than gas - the oil merely acted as an intermediate fluid 
transferring the gas thrust. I think it was the Fulmar ped that was the 
first one that dropped the oil and managed to use gas alone. Presumably 
they had got the seal methods good enough to do without the oil, and 
that simplifies the internal complexity significantly.

Chris Woolf

On 19/08/2019 08:45, Alec Bray wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> On 18/08/2019 you wrote:
>> I don't remember the central column pump, but it probably wasn't ever 
>> intended as an operational affair,
>
>
> Thanks to photos from Dudley,? here is the column and the pump on a Mk 3:
>
> I don't think it could ever be used on shot, but could be used to get 
> extra height FOR a shot.
>
> You later wrote "....the bottles might have been gas ones, but only in 
> order to increase the the capacity of the hydraulic accumulator..."
>
> This to me makes perfect sense: I would just love to see a GA of the 
> Heron!?? Thanks for all your help!
>
> -- 
>
> Best Regards
>
> Alec
>
> Alec Bray
>
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502


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From dave at davesound.co.uk  Mon Aug 19 04:59:05 2019
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 10:59:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
   Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> UK designed tape recorders stopped at the point where simple voltage 
> control of spool motors and mains synchrony capstans were the norm. 
> Philips, Studer, Ampex and others recognised the need to use more 
> sophisticated servo control, and developed the techniques to deal with 
> that. We never caught up. We could manage the (often rather heavy) 
> mechanics tolerably well but the more refined Nagra-like engineering and 
> the brilliance of high speed servos was sadly beyond British vision.

Not quite. The standard 1/4" at Thames TV was the Leevers-Rich Proline. A
twin capstan design. The transport was so stable that with an external
controller, designed by Thames, it could be used as a PAL synchronous
master for multiple passes of a music number to VT.

-- 
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film*

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 19 05:12:24 2019
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 11:12:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <706fdcdd-01ee-4113-8f83-0196bd204591@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<4695ddb2-4aa4-14f3-8048-e800aed55236@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<4a022f82-c7ef-5ccd-ad76-5683df1da9d7@gmail.com>
	<d53a1f8f-82fe-fba3-82a3-63e290c10a82@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<71494e53-5488-6b5d-3a59-bb3b5f21cb7a@gmail.com>
	<706fdcdd-01ee-4113-8f83-0196bd204591@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <332b9bbc-4dd5-b27c-9b52-50a2339cb5b1@gmail.com>

Hi,

On 19/08/2019 10:43, Chris Woolf wrote:
> That looks exactly like a standard hydraulic valve, so I think the 
> column is a classic ram
OK, I'll go with that, sounds eminently reasonable!? Although the 
placement and "organisation" of this valve was different on the 
different Mks - just to confuse!?? Thanks once again!

-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502




From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Mon Aug 19 05:20:36 2019
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 11:20:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Name the extra
In-Reply-To: <b1rpydnokwm0t269phm2l1dp.1566170374739@email.android.com>
References: <b1rpydnokwm0t269phm2l1dp.1566170374739@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <49F92E90-02AB-4B91-929C-4829B92AE4EF@vincent68.plus.com>

Was Billy Gray an AFM on Blue Peter for a while?

I have a vague memory of an item with Britains Champion Sheepdog. Billy was tasked with booking a flock of sheep. Unfortunately they were showbiz sheep and didn't have a clue what to do when confronted by a sheepdog!  Cue sheep fleeing to all parts of the studio and Billy running round the firelane trying to recapture them!

John V

 
On 19 Aug 2019, at 00:19, Mr P.J.Hider via Tech1 wrote:

> Sorry Bernie my memory did a somersault.
> 
> The extra's name is Billy Gray and it was his brother Monsieur Eddie Gray who was in the Crazy Gang.
> 
> Best
> Peter 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Aug 19 06:17:21 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 12:17:21 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Quite correct - though there's a little more to it than that.

Leevers-Rich always struggled to play catch-up with US and European 
designs, and were really only kept going in the 60s (mostly by the BBC) 
because of some artificial tariffs against US imports and a reluctance 
to use "German" products. They couldn't match the performance of the 
competition, and by 1975 had belatedly recognised that they really never 
would.

At that point they bought in the Proline design, which was actually the 
Klark-Teknik SM2. That ~was~ a good design, copying a lot of the more 
sophisticated principles from abroad. Klark Teknik was a UK company, and 
an exception to the norm, but... KT quickly realised they didn't want to 
continue with recorder manufacture and sold the rights 
lock-stock-and-barrel to Leevers-Rich. That company continued on a 
downhill path and within a decade this single decent product had 
vanished - LR never managed to develop it, and it is no surprise that it 
was Thames that made the external controller.

Sadly this pattern of demise has been prevalent in the UK for a long 
while - the design talent is unquestionably there, but the ability to 
develop it, to get ahead of the game, and to keep there, has been weak 
for a long time. I could point to many of the reasons, but perhaps not 
here, today;}

Chris Woolf


On 19/08/2019 10:59, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> In article <f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
>     Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> UK designed tape recorders stopped at the point where simple voltage
>> control of spool motors and mains synchrony capstans were the norm.
>> Philips, Studer, Ampex and others recognised the need to use more
>> sophisticated servo control, and developed the techniques to deal with
>> that. We never caught up. We could manage the (often rather heavy)
>> mechanics tolerably well but the more refined Nagra-like engineering and
>> the brilliance of high speed servos was sadly beyond British vision.
> Not quite. The standard 1/4" at Thames TV was the Leevers-Rich Proline. A
> twin capstan design. The transport was so stable that with an external
> controller, designed by Thames, it could be used as a PAL synchronous
> master for multiple passes of a music number to VT.
>

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From dave at davesound.co.uk  Mon Aug 19 07:37:13 2019
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 13:37:13 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <57e5fcc73fdave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
   Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> Quite correct - though there's a little more to it than that.

> Leevers-Rich always struggled to play catch-up with US and European 
> designs, and were really only kept going in the 60s (mostly by the BBC) 
> because of some artificial tariffs against US imports and a reluctance 
> to use "German" products. They couldn't match the performance of the 
> competition, and by 1975 had belatedly recognised that they really never 
> would.

> At that point they bought in the Proline design, which was actually the 
> Klark-Teknik SM2. That ~was~ a good design, copying a lot of the more 
> sophisticated principles from abroad. Klark Teknik was a UK company, and 
> an exception to the norm, but... KT quickly realised they didn't want to 
> continue with recorder manufacture and sold the rights 
> lock-stock-and-barrel to Leevers-Rich. That company continued on a 
> downhill path and within a decade this single decent product had 
> vanished - LR never managed to develop it, and it is no surprise that it 
> was Thames that made the external controller.

Leevers engineered in the external controller and produced a new model
incorporating it. But by that time, the BBC seemed to have gone down the
Studer route. I'm pretty certain it was the first anywhere which could do
this job. Although shortly afterwards component video recording arrived
making the need for a PAL locked audio machine less necessary.
But then Studer produced the 827 with things like Dolby SR and it could
also chase lock to a VTR. Wonderful machine. Did everything the Nagra T
promised to do. ;-)       

> Sadly this pattern of demise has been prevalent in the UK for a long 
> while - the design talent is unquestionably there, but the ability to 
> develop it, to get ahead of the game, and to keep there, has been weak 
> for a long time. I could point to many of the reasons, but perhaps not 
> here, today;}

> Chris Woolf


> On 19/08/2019 10:59, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
> > In article <f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1 at chriswoolf.co.uk>,
> >     Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> >> UK designed tape recorders stopped at the point where simple voltage
> >> control of spool motors and mains synchrony capstans were the norm.
> >> Philips, Studer, Ampex and others recognised the need to use more
> >> sophisticated servo control, and developed the techniques to deal with
> >> that. We never caught up. We could manage the (often rather heavy)
> >> mechanics tolerably well but the more refined Nagra-like engineering and
> >> the brilliance of high speed servos was sadly beyond British vision.
> > Not quite. The standard 1/4" at Thames TV was the Leevers-Rich Proline. A
> > twin capstan design. The transport was so stable that with an external
> > controller, designed by Thames, it could be used as a PAL synchronous
> > master for multiple passes of a music number to VT.
> >

> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus

-- 
*If we weren't meant to eat animals, why are they made of meat?

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From waresound at msn.com  Mon Aug 19 07:53:42 2019
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 12:53:42 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>,
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02711BC77B3A8B7B4D6C9DC5A7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Here are a couple of Prolines (pic). We bought four from L-R for the Media Studies dept at West Surrey College on Art (Farnham). Two in the sound studio, one in the TV studio, and a fourth mounted vertically in a Leevers Rich 16mm mag film transfer rack. That one had a Nagra pilot head that drove the 16mm drive-roller motor via an HH power amp. Perfectly respectable machines - can?t help wondering what eventually became of them. At some point after my time there, the sound studio wasn?t deemed important enough and was turned into a journalism classroom. The Neve Melbourn in the pic went missing, stolen, and was never recovered. The Neve from the TV studio was apparently abandoned as ?too complicated for students? (staff, probably, more likely) and I?m told,  went to Funky Junk at a giveaway price.
To be honest, I think L-R were more interested in the mag film machines - at that time they seemed to be everywhere.
Just to keep this post relevant under the above subject, we had an ex-Beeb Vinten motorised dolly in the TV studio, but no peds!
Don?t bother guessing who that is in the pic.!
Cheers,
Nick.
[image1.jpeg]
Sent from my iPad

On 19 Aug 2019, at 12:17, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

Quite correct - though there's a little more to it than that.

Leevers-Rich always struggled to play catch-up with US and European designs, and were really only kept going in the 60s (mostly by the BBC) because of some artificial tariffs against US imports and a reluctance to use "German" products. They couldn't match the performance of the competition, and by 1975 had belatedly recognised that they really never would.

At that point they bought in the Proline design, which was actually the Klark-Teknik SM2. That ~was~ a good design, copying a lot of the more sophisticated principles from abroad. Klark Teknik was a UK company, and an exception to the norm, but... KT quickly realised they didn't want to continue with recorder manufacture and sold the rights lock-stock-and-barrel to Leevers-Rich. That company continued on a downhill path and within a decade this single decent product had vanished - LR never managed to develop it, and it is no surprise that it was Thames that made the external controller.

Sadly this pattern of demise has been prevalent in the UK for a long while - the design talent is unquestionably there, but the ability to develop it, to get ahead of the game, and to keep there, has been weak for a long time. I could point to many of the reasons, but perhaps not here, today;}

Chris Woolf


On 19/08/2019 10:59, Dave Plowman via Tech1 wrote:
In article <f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1 at chriswoolf.co.uk<mailto:f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1 at chriswoolf.co.uk>>,
   Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
UK designed tape recorders stopped at the point where simple voltage
control of spool motors and mains synchrony capstans were the norm.
Philips, Studer, Ampex and others recognised the need to use more
sophisticated servo control, and developed the techniques to deal with
that. We never caught up. We could manage the (often rather heavy)
mechanics tolerably well but the more refined Nagra-like engineering and
the brilliance of high speed servos was sadly beyond British vision.
Not quite. The standard 1/4" at Thames TV was the Leevers-Rich Proline. A
twin capstan design. The transport was so stable that with an external
controller, designed by Thames, it could be used as a PAL synchronous
master for multiple passes of a music number to VT.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 19 08:03:10 2019
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 14:03:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB02711BC77B3A8B7B4D6C9DC5A7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02711BC77B3A8B7B4D6C9DC5A7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <450eaef8-8c0d-f18b-6c53-bbf30eafb701@gmail.com>

Hi all,

On 19/08/2019 13:53, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> we had an ex-Beeb Vinten motorised dolly 

which leads to an interesting thought ... The elevation of the 
Motorised's Jib was purely down to the grunt of the motor (presumably 
with a worm drive?).? Unlike the other Vinten products that I came 
across in my time, where "balance" was the keyword!

-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502




From paul at pgtmedia.co.uk  Mon Aug 19 08:34:24 2019
From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk (Paul Thackray)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 14:34:24 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <450eaef8-8c0d-f18b-6c53-bbf30eafb701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0i3309uuo6adedvt3p72kb28.1566221664113@pgtmedia.co.uk>

Alex.
Another useful document?



Paul Thackray

PGT Media Consulting Ltd.

07802 243979

Mail;?paul at pgtmedia.co.uk

Web;?http://www.pgtmedia.co.uk

Linkedin;???http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/paul-thackray/19/379/746

IMDB;?http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1488554/

sent from my BlackBerry?the most secure mobile device?via the O2 Network


	? Original Message ?



From: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Sent: 19 August 2019 14:03
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Reply to: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully received!


Hi all,

On 19/08/2019 13:53, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> we had an ex-Beeb Vinten motorised dolly

which leads to an interesting thought ... The elevation of the
Motorised's Jib was purely down to the grunt of the motor (presumably
with a worm drive?).? Unlike the other Vinten products that I came
across in my time, where "balance" was the keyword!

--

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:??? 07789 561 346
home:?? 0118 981 7502



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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Aug 19 08:40:19 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 14:40:19 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <450eaef8-8c0d-f18b-6c53-bbf30eafb701@gmail.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02711BC77B3A8B7B4D6C9DC5A7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<450eaef8-8c0d-f18b-6c53-bbf30eafb701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <614b8792-3ddd-49a7-1a3f-c1302e0d8e11@chriswoolf.co.uk>

Oh no! There were some gert great springs to at least help!

Chris Woolf


On 19/08/2019 14:03, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> On 19/08/2019 13:53, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>> we had an ex-Beeb Vinten motorised dolly 
>
> which leads to an interesting thought ... The elevation of the 
> Motorised's Jib was purely down to the grunt of the motor (presumably 
> with a worm drive?).? Unlike the other Vinten products that I came 
> across in my time, where "balance" was the keyword!
>

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From waresound at msn.com  Mon Aug 19 09:00:05 2019
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 14:00:05 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <614b8792-3ddd-49a7-1a3f-c1302e0d8e11@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02711BC77B3A8B7B4D6C9DC5A7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<450eaef8-8c0d-f18b-6c53-bbf30eafb701@gmail.com>
	<614b8792-3ddd-49a7-1a3f-c1302e0d8e11@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB027178ECEF745AF968A8C47EA7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

In which case, did the motor have to work harder on the way up, or on the way down!?
Nick.
Sent from my iPad

On 19 Aug 2019, at 14:40, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

Oh no! There were some gert great springs to at least help!

Chris Woolf


On 19/08/2019 14:03, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
Hi all,

On 19/08/2019 13:53, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
we had an ex-Beeb Vinten motorised dolly

which leads to an interesting thought ... The elevation of the Motorised's Jib was purely down to the grunt of the motor (presumably with a worm drive?).  Unlike the other Vinten products that I came across in my time, where "balance" was the keyword!


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


--
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From tonynuttall at me.com  Mon Aug 19 10:04:24 2019
From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 15:04:24 GMT
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: North 3 at the Shrewsbury Steam Rally 2019
References: <0D6F82ECD3914B06BF21DC04A8100754@rtx100>
Message-ID: <d98de987-9153-4774-8919-4d3e4b459585@me.com>

Forward from Jerry Clegg may be of interest to Pebble Mill staff.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Jerry Clegg <jerry.clegg at btinternet.com>
Date: 19/08/2019
To: Jerry Clegg <jerry.clegg at btinternet.com>
Subject: North 3 at the Shrewsbury Steam Rally 2019

Greetings All
?
North 3 had a very?successful weekend at the Avro Air Fair at Woodford. We?were given?a very good pitch which resulted in a considerable number of visitors and the weather was reasonably kind to us.
?
Another North 3 sortie coming up! It's Shrewsbury Steam?Rally at Onslow Park, Shrewsbury,?this coming weekend, but don't come on Saturday .... it doesn't start 'til Sunday! The event is Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday 25th and 26th August, a really?brilliant alround show and?one of the highlights of our year. It's a chance for some of you?erstwhile Pebble Millers to come and?try?and reclaim?your former Midland unit?without straying too far off your patch! We'll be pleased to see you!
?
The Shrewsbury Steam?Rally website with all the details is :-
?
https://www.shrewsburysteamrally.co.uk/
?
Perhaps?we'll?meet up with?some of you there. Fingers crossed for some good weather!
?
regards
?
Jerry
?
?
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From alanaudio at me.com  Mon Aug 19 16:44:41 2019
From: alanaudio at me.com (Alan Taylor)
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 22:44:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Fwd: North 3 at the Shrewsbury Steam Rally 2019
In-Reply-To: <d98de987-9153-4774-8919-4d3e4b459585@me.com>
References: <0D6F82ECD3914B06BF21DC04A8100754@rtx100>
	<d98de987-9153-4774-8919-4d3e4b459585@me.com>
Message-ID: <5634A3BB-0654-48F4-97CB-7CE7EE97F220@me.com>

Talking of Steam Rallys.  Is anybody from here going to the Great Dorset Steam Fair later this week?

I'm planning to go on Friday as I'll be in the West Country for a few days.  You could take that as an invitation to try and meet up, or as a warning to keep your head down.
 
Alan Taylor







> From: Jerry Clegg <jerry.clegg at btinternet.com>
> Date: 19/08/2019
> To: Jerry Clegg <jerry.clegg at btinternet.com>
> Subject: North 3 at the Shrewsbury Steam Rally 2019
> 
> Greetings All
>  
> North 3 had a very successful weekend at the Avro Air Fair at Woodford. We were given a very good pitch which resulted in a considerable number of visitors and the weather was reasonably kind to us.
>  
> Another North 3 sortie coming up! It's Shrewsbury Steam Rally at Onslow Park, Shrewsbury, this coming weekend, but don't come on Saturday .... it doesn't start 'til Sunday! The event is Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday 25th and 26th August, a really brilliant alround show and one of the highlights of our year. It's a chance for some of you erstwhile Pebble Millers to come and try and reclaim your former Midland unit without straying too far off your patch! We'll be pleased to see you!
>  
> The Shrewsbury Steam Rally website with all the details is :-
>  
> https://www.shrewsburysteamrally.co.uk/
>  
> Perhaps we'll meet up with some of you there. Fingers crossed for some good weather!
>  
> regards
>  
> Jerry

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From Waresound at msn.com  Tue Aug 20 02:20:06 2019
From: Waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 07:20:06 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <9b7c217f-ea48-35d4-cf96-bac3382468a7@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02711BC77B3A8B7B4D6C9DC5A7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<450eaef8-8c0d-f18b-6c53-bbf30eafb701@gmail.com>
	<614b8792-3ddd-49a7-1a3f-c1302e0d8e11@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027178ECEF745AF968A8C47EA7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<9b7c217f-ea48-35d4-cf96-bac3382468a7@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02712ACCED6D9919AD7291F9A7AB0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

But seriously though Chris, I?m wondering if the Vinten motorised was designed by a mechanic or a physicist. The jib is a Class 3 lever, and so presumably is the spring. To my thinking, surely regardless of the cameraman?s weight, the motor has to work just as hard on the way down to compress the spring. That energy being equal and opposite to that saved by the spring on the way up.
So from an energy point of view does the futty-gert spring serve any useful purpose at all?

The Mole crane, on the other hand is a weight-balanced Class 1 lever with its fulcrum in the middle, so doesn?t require energy to move it up or down, other than to overcome intital inertia.
Am I over-thinking this, or should I just go and mow the lawn?
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad

On 19 Aug 2019, at 16:38, Chris Woolf <chris at chriswoolf.co.uk<mailto:chris at chriswoolf.co.uk>> wrote:


Ehh! Silly bugger!

Depended on how fat the cameraman was!

Chris


On 19/08/2019 15:00, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
In which case, did the motor have to work harder on the way up, or on the way down!?
Nick.
Sent from my iPad

On 19 Aug 2019, at 14:40, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

Oh no! There were some gert great springs to at least help!

Chris Woolf


On 19/08/2019 14:03, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
Hi all,

On 19/08/2019 13:53, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
we had an ex-Beeb Vinten motorised dolly

which leads to an interesting thought ... The elevation of the Motorised's Jib was purely down to the grunt of the motor (presumably with a worm drive?).  Unlike the other Vinten products that I came across in my time, where "balance" was the keyword!


---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus


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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 20 03:31:10 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 09:31:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB02712ACCED6D9919AD7291F9A7AB0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02711BC77B3A8B7B4D6C9DC5A7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<450eaef8-8c0d-f18b-6c53-bbf30eafb701@gmail.com>
	<614b8792-3ddd-49a7-1a3f-c1302e0d8e11@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027178ECEF745AF968A8C47EA7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<9b7c217f-ea48-35d4-cf96-bac3382468a7@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02712ACCED6D9919AD7291F9A7AB0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <a1eff8d7-6a21-0381-b041-3dfaaafcc9a9@ntlworld.com>

I do seem to remember that waving Mole crane arms around did in fact 
take quite a lot of energy.? And the incident with Gillian Lynn, when 
she wanted us to stop the Nike arm instantly, rather showed that indeed 
inertia was something important too. I never was much good at physics, 
but I did put in the waving time - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/mandw1copy.jpg

B



On 20/08/2019 08:20, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> The Mole crane, on the other hand is a weight-balanced Class 1 lever 
> with its fulcrum in the middle, so doesn?t require energy to move it 
> up or down, other than to overcome intital inertia.

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 20 03:40:00 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 09:40:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB02712ACCED6D9919AD7291F9A7AB0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02711BC77B3A8B7B4D6C9DC5A7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<450eaef8-8c0d-f18b-6c53-bbf30eafb701@gmail.com>
	<614b8792-3ddd-49a7-1a3f-c1302e0d8e11@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027178ECEF745AF968A8C47EA7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<9b7c217f-ea48-35d4-cf96-bac3382468a7@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02712ACCED6D9919AD7291F9A7AB0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <86b033d7-592e-4f5a-def4-1799327842c4@gmail.com>

I do seem to remember that waving Mole crane arms around did in fact 
take quite a lot of energy.? And the incident with Gillian Lynn, when 
she wanted us to stop the Nike arm instantly, rather showed that indeed 
inertia was something important too. I never was much good at physics, 
but I did put in the waving time - http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/mandw1copy.jpg

B



On 20/08/2019 08:20, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> The Mole crane, on the other hand is a weight-balanced Class 1 lever 
> with its fulcrum in the middle, so doesn?t require energy to move it 
> up or down, other than to overcome intital inertia.

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Aug 20 04:19:09 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 10:19:09 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc
 gratefullyreceived!
In-Reply-To: <86b033d7-592e-4f5a-def4-1799327842c4@gmail.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02711BC77B3A8B7B4D6C9DC5A7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<450eaef8-8c0d-f18b-6c53-bbf30eafb701@gmail.com>
	<614b8792-3ddd-49a7-1a3f-c1302e0d8e11@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027178ECEF745AF968A8C47EA7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<9b7c217f-ea48-35d4-cf96-bac3382468a7@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02712ACCED6D9919AD7291F9A7AB0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<86b033d7-592e-4f5a-def4-1799327842c4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d5bbb0e.1c69fb81.59953.82f9@mx.google.com>

That looks like Glenda Jackson on Morecambe & Wise?
And is that Eddie Stuart in the white cardigan? Could be when he came off Crew 3 ? usually on the mole in TVT, to switch to production.

There?s a terrific shot at the start of the film version of ?West Side Story? where the lads are kicking a ball about, and it lands up in extreme close up,
centre frame, right on the beat, as the camera comes to an instant stop.

Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 20 August 2019 09:40
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefullyreceived!

I do seem to remember that waving Mole crane arms around did in fact take quite a lot of energy.? And the incident with Gillian Lynn, when she wanted us to stop the Nike arm instantly, rather showed that indeed inertia was something important too. I never was much good at physics, but I did put in the waving time -? http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/mandw1copy.jpg

B


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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Tue Aug 20 04:50:47 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 10:50:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB02712ACCED6D9919AD7291F9A7AB0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02711BC77B3A8B7B4D6C9DC5A7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<450eaef8-8c0d-f18b-6c53-bbf30eafb701@gmail.com>
	<614b8792-3ddd-49a7-1a3f-c1302e0d8e11@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027178ECEF745AF968A8C47EA7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<9b7c217f-ea48-35d4-cf96-bac3382468a7@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02712ACCED6D9919AD7291F9A7AB0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <e9186892-13cc-0fff-1287-988031e6e373@chriswoolf.co.uk>

And equally seriously, because this reminds me of the excellent 
over-coffee discussions that one had when coffee breaks existed...

The effort required to move the cameraperson/platform load is the 
~difference~ between gravity shoving the load down and the spring 
shoving the load up. In essence it ~is~ a (roughly) balanced system, 
with the Class 3 positioned spring taking the place of the Class 1 
positioned counterweight.

The difference is very much smaller than the absolute load of the 
arm/platform casting, camera and cameraperson's beer gut, so a much 
smaller motor can be used. This is exactly the same as a lift motor - 
that only has to drive the difference load between cage and counterweight.

Yes, your energy balance argument is correct, but since gravity would be 
doing ~all~ the work coming down if there was no spring, the motor would 
have to do ~all~ the work going up...? Gravity is free but the electric 
motor and the power we feed to it are not, so it is better "waste" 
gravity and "save" on the leccy.

Keep thinking ~and~ mow the lawn!

Chris Woolf


On 20/08/2019 08:20, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> But seriously though Chris, I?m wondering if the Vinten motorised was 
> designed by a mechanic or a physicist. The jib is a Class 3 lever, and 
> so presumably is the spring. To my thinking, surely regardless of the 
> cameraman?s weight, the motor has to work just as hard on the way down 
> to compress the spring. That energy being equal and opposite to that 
> saved by the spring on the way up.
> So from an energy point of view does the futty-gert spring serve any 
> useful purpose at all?
>
> The Mole crane, on the other hand is a weight-balanced Class 1 lever 
> with its fulcrum in the middle, so doesn?t require energy to move it 
> up or down, other than to overcome intital inertia.
> Am I over-thinking this, or should I just go and mow the lawn?
> Cheers,
> Nick.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 19 Aug 2019, at 16:38, Chris Woolf <chris at chriswoolf.co.uk 
> <mailto:chris at chriswoolf.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>> Ehh! Silly bugger!
>>
>> Depended on how fat the cameraman was!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On 19/08/2019 15:00, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>>> In which case, did the motor have to work harder on the way up, or 
>>> on the way down!?
>>> Nick.
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On 19 Aug 2019, at 14:40, Chris Woolf via Tech1 
>>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh no! There were some gert great springs to at least help!
>>>>
>>>> Chris Woolf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 19/08/2019 14:03, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> On 19/08/2019 13:53, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
>>>>>> we had an ex-Beeb Vinten motorised dolly
>>>>>
>>>>> which leads to an interesting thought ... The elevation of the 
>>>>> Motorised's Jib was purely down to the grunt of the motor 
>>>>> (presumably with a worm drive?).? Unlike the other Vinten products 
>>>>> that I came across in my time, where "balance" was the keyword!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 
>>
>>
>
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From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Tue Aug 20 04:51:34 2019
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 10:51:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc
 gratefullyreceived!
Message-ID: <dgrkb4eebhx4mfxjf6d5580x.1566294694157@email.android.com>

Yes, that's Eddie, Pat. As you say, no mean exponent of Mole crane work himself. The closing shot of the Minstrels, high wide, track in and swing down and left, then right along the front row of principals and back out high wide central, with the monitor cradle a couple of inches from the clock on the balcony, took a bit of doing, I can tell you!?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Date: 20/08/2019  10:19  (GMT+00:00) To: Bernard Newnham <bernie833 at gmail.com>, tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefullyreceived! That looks like Glenda Jackson on Morecambe & Wise?And is that Eddie Stuart in the white cardigan? Could be when he came off Crew 3 ? usually on the mole in TVT, to switch to production.?There?s a terrific shot at the start of the film version of ?West Side Story? where the lads are kicking a ball about, and it lands up in extreme close up,centre frame, right on the beat, as the camera comes to an instant stop.?BestPat?Sent from Mail for Windows 10?From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1Sent: 20 August 2019 09:40To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.ukSubject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefullyreceived!?I do seem to remember that waving Mole crane arms around did in fact take quite a lot of energy.? And the incident with Gillian Lynn, when she wanted us to stop the Nike arm instantly, rather showed that indeed inertia was something important too. I never was much good at physics, but I did put in the waving time -? http://www.tech-ops.co.uk/mandw1copy.jpgB

	
        
		Virus-free. www.avast.com
		
	
 
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From crew13 at vincent68.plus.com  Tue Aug 20 05:07:57 2019
From: crew13 at vincent68.plus.com (John Vincent)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 11:07:57 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Name The Extra
Message-ID: <745943E4-0081-48C4-AC4D-634EE1E3B1CE@vincent68.plus.com>

Was Billy Gray an AFM on Blue Peter for a while?

I have a vague memory of an item with Britains Champion Sheepdog. Billy was tasked with booking a flock of sheep. Unfortunately they were showbiz sheep and didn't have a clue what to do when confronted by a sheepdog!  Cue sheep fleeing to all parts of the studio and Billy running round the firelane trying to recapture them!

John V


On 19 Aug 2019, at 00:19, Mr P.J.Hider via Tech1 wrote:

> Sorry Bernie my memory did a somersault.
> 
> The extra's name is Billy Gray and it was his brother Monsieur Eddie Gray who was in the Crazy Gang.
> 
> Best
> Peter 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 20 05:29:01 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 11:29:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Our viewing audience
Message-ID: <eedca986-82b0-fa24-fad1-0c497d33ae1b@gmail.com>

You may not have noticed that the website has a "world hits" Wordpress 
plugin. It just puts a blob on places where people have accessed the site -





Our one visit from a viewer in Chad was May 2012, Uzbekistan June this 
year, Ji-Paran?, Brazil April 2015, etc.

B
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Aug 20 06:01:38 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 12:01:38 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Name The Extra
In-Reply-To: <745943E4-0081-48C4-AC4D-634EE1E3B1CE@vincent68.plus.com>
References: <745943E4-0081-48C4-AC4D-634EE1E3B1CE@vincent68.plus.com>
Message-ID: <5d5bd311.1c69fb81.fdef4.032b@mx.google.com>

I?m reminded of s shoot at Ealing for ?Dr. Who? involving a jungle set, with elephants supposed to come charging through.
The jumbos were kept outside the stage doors, and let in when cued ? however, they were circus trained and on spotting the lit area, linked trunks and tails and went round in a circle!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: John Vincent via Tech1
Sent: 20 August 2019 11:08
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Name The Extra

Was Billy Gray an AFM on Blue Peter for a while?

I have a vague memory of an item with Britains Champion Sheepdog. Billy was tasked with booking a flock of sheep. Unfortunately they were showbiz sheep and didn't have a clue what to do when confronted by a sheepdog! ?Cue sheep fleeing to all parts of the studio and Billy running round the firelane trying to recapture them!

John V




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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Aug 20 06:03:47 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 12:03:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Our viewing audience
In-Reply-To: <eedca986-82b0-fa24-fad1-0c497d33ae1b@gmail.com>
References: <eedca986-82b0-fa24-fad1-0c497d33ae1b@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d5bd393.1c69fb81.9b104.e1e8@mx.google.com>

Eee! That?s champion!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1
Sent: 20 August 2019 11:29
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Our viewing audience

You may not have noticed that the website has a "world hits" Wordpress plugin. It just puts a blob on places where people have accessed the site - 





Our one visit from a viewer in Chad was May 2012, Uzbekistan June this year, Ji-Paran?, Brazil April 2015, etc.

B 



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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Aug 20 06:19:41 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 12:19:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals
 etcgratefullyreceived!
In-Reply-To: <dgrkb4eebhx4mfxjf6d5580x.1566294694157@email.android.com>
References: <dgrkb4eebhx4mfxjf6d5580x.1566294694157@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <5d5bd74d.1c69fb81.9b1e1.e905@mx.google.com>

Bearing in mind that the best wide shot position was, as you say, central and  level with the front of the circle in TVT, when booking for ?42nd Street? at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane, I went 10 times, and always tried to get seats in the front row of the Royal Circle ? expensive, but worth it!

Her Maj came to see something in the TVT (not ?This is Your Life?!) and somewhere there?s a shot of her shaking hands with Eddie, still on the Mole, as he couldn?t dismount and bow, without unloading all the lead counterweights.

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: vernon.dyer via Tech1
Sent: 20 August 2019 10:51
To: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etcgratefullyreceived!


Yes, that's Eddie, Pat. As you say, no mean exponent of Mole crane work himself. The closing shot of the Minstrels, high wide, track in and swing down and left, then right along the front row of principals and back out high wide central, with the monitor cradle a couple of inches from the clock on the balcony, took a bit of doing, I can tell you!?





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From waresound at msn.com  Tue Aug 20 06:26:19 2019
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 11:26:19 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <e9186892-13cc-0fff-1287-988031e6e373@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02711BC77B3A8B7B4D6C9DC5A7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<450eaef8-8c0d-f18b-6c53-bbf30eafb701@gmail.com>
	<614b8792-3ddd-49a7-1a3f-c1302e0d8e11@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB027178ECEF745AF968A8C47EA7A80@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<9b7c217f-ea48-35d4-cf96-bac3382468a7@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02712ACCED6D9919AD7291F9A7AB0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<e9186892-13cc-0fff-1287-988031e6e373@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02717A4CD420EDA67CDB95A3A7AB0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

By the way, I?m so proud to have been called a silly bugger by the great C. W.!
A fine Old English term of endearment (I hope) that Chaucer would have been comfortable with too. I hope no-one minded me going public with what had been an off-list reply to me!
We once had a rather down-to-Earth Dean at Guildford Cathedral who used to occasionally slip the word ?bugger? into his Sunday sermons from the pulpit - a shock tactic to awaken the old biddies dozing in the congregation. I only ever saw one such old biddy get up in disgust and walk out, clearly exclaiming: ?Don?t you call me an old bugger!?, as her walking stick tapped out a rhythmic tap-tap all the way to the back of the nave, accompanied by much sniggering amongst the gentlemen of the choir!
Best,
Nick.
PS if you can find any link with the above and Vinten, I take my hat off to you!
Sent from my iPad

On 20 Aug 2019, at 10:51, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:


And equally seriously, because this reminds me of the excellent over-coffee discussions that one had when coffee breaks existed...

The effort required to move the cameraperson/platform load is the ~difference~ between gravity shoving the load down and the spring shoving the load up. In essence it ~is~ a (roughly) balanced system, with the Class 3 positioned spring taking the place of the Class 1 positioned counterweight.

The difference is very much smaller than the absolute load of the arm/platform casting, camera and cameraperson's beer gut, so a much smaller motor can be used. This is exactly the same as a lift motor - that only has to drive the difference load between cage and counterweight.

Yes, your energy balance argument is correct, but since gravity would be doing ~all~ the work coming down if there was no spring, the motor would have to do ~all~ the work going up...  Gravity is free but the electric motor and the power we feed to it are not, so it is better "waste" gravity and "save" on the leccy.

Keep thinking ~and~ mow the lawn!

Chris Woolf


On 20/08/2019 08:20, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
But seriously though Chris, I?m wondering if the Vinten motorised was designed by a mechanic or a physicist. The jib is a Class 3 lever, and so presumably is the spring. To my thinking, surely regardless of the cameraman?s weight, the motor has to work just as hard on the way down to compress the spring. That energy being equal and opposite to that saved by the spring on the way up.
So from an energy point of view does the futty-gert spring serve any useful purpose at all?

The Mole crane, on the other hand is a weight-balanced Class 1 lever with its fulcrum in the middle, so doesn?t require energy to move it up or down, other than to overcome intital inertia.
Am I over-thinking this, or should I just go and mow the lawn?
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad

On 19 Aug 2019, at 16:38, Chris Woolf <chris at chriswoolf.co.uk<mailto:chris at chriswoolf.co.uk>> wrote:


Ehh! Silly bugger!

Depended on how fat the cameraman was!

Chris


On 19/08/2019 15:00, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
In which case, did the motor have to work harder on the way up, or on the way down!?
Nick.
Sent from my iPad

On 19 Aug 2019, at 14:40, Chris Woolf via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

Oh no! There were some gert great springs to at least help!

Chris Woolf


On 19/08/2019 14:03, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
Hi all,

On 19/08/2019 13:53, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
we had an ex-Beeb Vinten motorised dolly

which leads to an interesting thought ... The elevation of the Motorised's Jib was purely down to the grunt of the motor (presumably with a worm drive?).  Unlike the other Vinten products that I came across in my time, where "balance" was the keyword!


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From dave at davesound.co.uk  Tue Aug 20 09:10:52 2019
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 15:10:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Buzz words.
Message-ID: <57e689307adave@davesound.co.uk>

Latest one from some government spokesman repeated in the meja:-

"we are turbo charging our plans to leave the EU with no deal"

Perhaps he didn't realise a turbo charger is driven by exhaust gasses. In
other words, hot air...

-- 
*The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From pat.heigham at amps.net  Tue Aug 20 10:44:46 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 16:44:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Buzz words.
In-Reply-To: <57e689307adave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <57e689307adave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5d5c156d.1c69fb81.ce5b9.23cd@mx.google.com>

Perhaps he keeps cows!

At risk of Bernie vetoing political postings, I have to say that Teresa May was disgracefully let down by her colleagues in the ?tory? party
for not supporting her efforts to sort out the nation?s decision to exit the EU.
(Sort of we don?t like the vote, so are going to stitch it up if we can!)
As I see it, the electorate was not apprised of all the ramifications before being asked to vote ? I liken it to a jury being asked to deliver a guilty verdict without hearing any evidence.
 Pat
(If I was ever elected as an MP, I would have a permanent confrontation with the party whips. I would not be told how to vote ? that is not democracy).


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 20 August 2019 15:11
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] Buzz words.

Latest one from some government spokesman repeated in the meja:-

"we are turbo charging our plans to leave the EU with no deal"

Perhaps he didn't realise a turbo charger is driven by exhaust gasses. In
other words, hot air...




---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From waresound at msn.com  Tue Aug 20 15:52:20 2019
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 20:52:20 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Buzz words.
In-Reply-To: <5d5c156d.1c69fb81.ce5b9.23cd@mx.google.com>
References: <57e689307adave@davesound.co.uk>,
	<5d5c156d.1c69fb81.ce5b9.23cd@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB027184AB8B649B271902921DA7AB0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Theresa. At least get her name right. ????
Nick.
On 20 Aug 2019, at 16:45, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

Perhaps he keeps cows!

At risk of Bernie vetoing political postings, I have to say that Teresa May was disgracefully let down by her colleagues in the ?tory? party
for not supporting her efforts to sort out the nation?s decision to exit the EU.
(Sort of we don?t like the vote, so are going to stitch it up if we can!)
As I see it, the electorate was not apprised of all the ramifications before being asked to vote ? I liken it to a jury being asked to deliver a guilty verdict without hearing any evidence.
Pat
(If I was ever elected as an MP, I would have a permanent confrontation with the party whips. I would not be told how to vote ? that is not democracy).


Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 20 August 2019 15:11
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: [Tech1] Buzz words.

Latest one from some government spokesman repeated in the meja:-

"we are turbo charging our plans to leave the EU with no deal"

Perhaps he didn't realise a turbo charger is driven by exhaust gasses. In
other words, hot air...



[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>      Virus-free. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
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From j at howell61.f9.co.uk  Tue Aug 20 16:40:00 2019
From: j at howell61.f9.co.uk (John Howell)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 22:40:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <3e13974d-4679-98fe-d6f3-6fba5f888c66@howell61.f9.co.uk>

One of the design features of the TD7 was its "parallel tracking" tone 
arm, I don't recognise your term 'radial tracking pickup'.

Hibou.


On 17/08/2019 17:40, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
>
> Something that might be of interest regarding the grams turntables.
>
> In the /very/ early days, Lime Grove galleries were fitted with 78rpm 
> turntables (TD7), with radial tracking pickups, and old-fashioned 
> steel needles. It being impossible to back track the 
> discs....................
>
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Aug 20 17:31:45 2019
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 23:31:45 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] TD7
In-Reply-To: <3e13974d-4679-98fe-d6f3-6fba5f888c66@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<3e13974d-4679-98fe-d6f3-6fba5f888c66@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <8209d80a-be1d-cccb-9ade-040dfad2379b@btinternet.com>

... not forgetting it's 25gm. tracking weight, a little more than the 
Decca ffss cartridge, invented by Bill Bayliff, H. of Tech. Ops. when I 
joined TVC. Cheers, Dave


From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Tue Aug 20 18:23:06 2019
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 00:23:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Peds
In-Reply-To: <8209d80a-be1d-cccb-9ade-040dfad2379b@btinternet.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<3e13974d-4679-98fe-d6f3-6fba5f888c66@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<8209d80a-be1d-cccb-9ade-040dfad2379b@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <b409df54-b4d0-acad-f7fb-2affeb7207ad@btinternet.com>

... and what about the 'spring ped.'? a strange looking beast, must have 
had bl**dy big springs! Cheers, Dave


From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 21 02:00:18 2019
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 08:00:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Peds
In-Reply-To: <b409df54-b4d0-acad-f7fb-2affeb7207ad@btinternet.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<3e13974d-4679-98fe-d6f3-6fba5f888c66@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<8209d80a-be1d-cccb-9ade-040dfad2379b@btinternet.com>
	<b409df54-b4d0-acad-f7fb-2affeb7207ad@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <1001e08d-7691-4b1f-550a-2afe28271362@gmail.com>

On 21/08/2019 00:23, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
> ... and what about the 'spring ped.'? a strange looking beast, must 
> have had bl**dy big springs! 
I came across these in Pres B.? Horrible things, they were.

-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502




From tonynuttall at me.com  Wed Aug 21 03:10:20 2019
From: tonynuttall at me.com (William Nuttall)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 08:10:20 GMT
Subject: [Tech1] "Heritage" Spring Ped
Message-ID: <0be9654a-ed4e-450d-a27b-3862953732eb@me.com>

Border TVs "Heritage" Spring Ped in the LOOK AROUND
Digital News Studio wearing a Radamec with its youthful
rolling base tripod friend ?also wearing a similar Radamec!
Tony Nuttall, in the Wilds of Cumbria
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From dave at davesound.co.uk  Wed Aug 21 04:57:41 2019
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 10:57:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] TD7
In-Reply-To: <8209d80a-be1d-cccb-9ade-040dfad2379b@btinternet.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<3e13974d-4679-98fe-d6f3-6fba5f888c66@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<8209d80a-be1d-cccb-9ade-040dfad2379b@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <57e6f5d830dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <8209d80a-be1d-cccb-9ade-040dfad2379b at btinternet.com>,
   dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> ... not forgetting it's 25gm. tracking weight, a little more than the 
> Decca ffss cartridge, invented by Bill Bayliff, H. of Tech. Ops. when I 
> joined TVC. Cheers, Dave

Rumour had it he simply miniaturised the EMI pickup design?

-- 
*Many people quit looking for work when they find a job *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From dave at davesound.co.uk  Wed Aug 21 04:54:05 2019
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 10:54:05 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <3e13974d-4679-98fe-d6f3-6fba5f888c66@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<3e13974d-4679-98fe-d6f3-6fba5f888c66@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <57e6f58410dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <3e13974d-4679-98fe-d6f3-6fba5f888c66 at howell61.f9.co.uk>,
   John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> One of the design features of the TD7 was its "parallel tracking" tone 
> arm, I don't recognise your term 'radial tracking pickup'.

ISTR they could be back tracked too?

-- 
*If God dropped acid, would he see people?

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From dave at davesound.co.uk  Wed Aug 21 04:55:11 2019
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 10:55:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Buzz words.
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB027184AB8B649B271902921DA7AB0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <VI1P192MB027184AB8B649B271902921DA7AB0@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <57e6f59ddcdave@davesound.co.uk>

Didn't want to start a political discussion. Just give you all a laugh.

-- 
*All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand *

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From dave at davesound.co.uk  Wed Aug 21 05:00:10 2019
From: dave at davesound.co.uk (Dave Plowman)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 11:00:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Peds
In-Reply-To: <1001e08d-7691-4b1f-550a-2afe28271362@gmail.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<3e13974d-4679-98fe-d6f3-6fba5f888c66@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<8209d80a-be1d-cccb-9ade-040dfad2379b@btinternet.com>
	<b409df54-b4d0-acad-f7fb-2affeb7207ad@btinternet.com>
	<1001e08d-7691-4b1f-550a-2afe28271362@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57e6f61296dave@davesound.co.uk>

In article <1001e08d-7691-4b1f-550a-2afe28271362 at gmail.com>,
   Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> On 21/08/2019 00:23, dave.mdv via Tech1 wrote:
> > ... and what about the 'spring ped.'? a strange looking beast, must 
> > have had bl**dy big springs! 
> I came across these in Pres B.  Horrible things, they were.

Thing with a spring is it varies according to compression. So can only
balance the load exactly at one point.

-- 
*Pride is what we have.  Vanity is what others have.

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    


From ian.hillson at gmail.com  Wed Aug 21 08:33:26 2019
From: ian.hillson at gmail.com (Ian H)
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2019 14:33:26 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] "Heritage" Spring Ped
In-Reply-To: <0be9654a-ed4e-450d-a27b-3862953732eb@me.com>
References: <0be9654a-ed4e-450d-a27b-3862953732eb@me.com>
Message-ID: <CAO37+kaZyRdXFfTLMWMW8wnZszG5_UbwZ4qZG3-nis-rqpJi_Q@mail.gmail.com>

A trip back to the 1960's... except that the AP Spring Peds had a HUGE
steering ring to accommodate the ever-so-long Marconi Mk7s
?

On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 9:10 AM William Nuttall via Tech1 <
tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Border TVs "Heritage" Spring Ped in the LOOK AROUND
> Digital News Studio wearing a Radamec with its youthful
> rolling base tripod friend  also wearing a similar Radamec!
> Tony Nuttall, in the Wilds of Cumbria
> [image: BTVA.jpeg]
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From davidslawson at btinternet.com  Thu Aug 22 08:20:40 2019
From: davidslawson at btinternet.com (David Lawson)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 14:20:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <903978A7-32D7-4A0C-B42D-C4EE37E2DF24@btinternet.com>

When I first read the posting from Alec I remembered a database I compiled in about 2000 giving data for most mounting available then and many from history, is that what you want Alec? It has taken all this time to find a version that runs. Of the three columns in the contents page some have the same name, these should be lightweight/medium weight/heavey weight, I know not why I did that.

It is written in hand coded HTML so is a bit crude by todays standards but at least this one works. If anyone wants to take the data, upgrade it and make a proper database out of it, feel free.

Dave Lawson

> On 17 Aug 2019, at 09:06, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> In a rash moment I volunteered to give a talk to the local Model Engineering Club (RSME) about television technology in the pre-digital age - covering things like pedestals, cranes etc and anything that could tie into "engineering" at its loosest.
> 
> Starting on this, I realised that I didn't have the slightest notion of HOW the Vinten Hydraulic pedestal was balanced, using those gas cylinders!   It just worked..  So any information on that would be gratefully received (as would any drawings, e.g. a GA).  I am guessing that a similar arrangement was used to balance the crane arm in the Vinten Heron - or was it?
> 
> I have seen pictures of the Nike crane and the Transatlantic, but personally I never came across these, so any info beyond what is already on the Tech Ops site would be of great interest.
> 
> On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams decks, but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be on interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks, and how did the BTR2s manage to go at any speed (on a rotating handle) and yet still do the standard speeds!  What other things should I consider?  Stringing on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...
> 
> It's when I start on something like this, I realise just how little I really know!  Help! Any info would be very welcome.  I might be able to consolidate it for the Tech Ops web site.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Alec
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From davidslawson at btinternet.com  Thu Aug 22 08:22:31 2019
From: davidslawson at btinternet.com (David Lawson)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 14:22:31 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <903978A7-32D7-4A0C-B42D-C4EE37E2DF24@btinternet.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<903978A7-32D7-4A0C-B42D-C4EE37E2DF24@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <14292DAD-2F29-4904-898F-8FC8F01C397B@btinternet.com>


It would help if I attached the database wouldn?t it.

Dave

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> On 22 Aug 2019, at 14:20, David Lawson <davidslawson at btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
> When I first read the posting from Alec I remembered a database I compiled in about 2000 giving data for most mounting available then and many from history, is that what you want Alec? It has taken all this time to find a version that runs. Of the three columns in the contents page some have the same name, these should be lightweight/medium weight/heavey weight, I know not why I did that.
> 
> It is written in hand coded HTML so is a bit crude by todays standards but at least this one works. If anyone wants to take the data, upgrade it and make a proper database out of it, feel free.
> 
> Dave Lawson
> 
>> On 17 Aug 2019, at 09:06, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> In a rash moment I volunteered to give a talk to the local Model Engineering Club (RSME) about television technology in the pre-digital age - covering things like pedestals, cranes etc and anything that could tie into "engineering" at its loosest.
>> 
>> Starting on this, I realised that I didn't have the slightest notion of HOW the Vinten Hydraulic pedestal was balanced, using those gas cylinders!   It just worked..  So any information on that would be gratefully received (as would any drawings, e.g. a GA).  I am guessing that a similar arrangement was used to balance the crane arm in the Vinten Heron - or was it?
>> 
>> I have seen pictures of the Nike crane and the Transatlantic, but personally I never came across these, so any info beyond what is already on the Tech Ops site would be of great interest.
>> 
>> On the sound side, I came across BTR2 tape machines and TD7 grams decks, but are there any mechanical niceties for these that would be on interest, e.g., rotation synchronisation on the grams desks, and how did the BTR2s manage to go at any speed (on a rotating handle) and yet still do the standard speeds!  What other things should I consider?  Stringing on the Mole Boom, for instance how many pulleys ...
>> 
>> It's when I start on something like this, I realise just how little I really know!  Help! Any info would be very welcome.  I might be able to consolidate it for the Tech Ops web site.
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Best Regards
>> 
>> Alec
>> 
>> Alec Bray
>> 
>> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
>> mob:    07789 561 346
>> home:   0118 981 7502
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 


From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 22 08:45:40 2019
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 14:45:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <14292DAD-2F29-4904-898F-8FC8F01C397B@btinternet.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<903978A7-32D7-4A0C-B42D-C4EE37E2DF24@btinternet.com>
	<14292DAD-2F29-4904-898F-8FC8F01C397B@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <830d4c13-77db-33a1-c393-279a3b633bb3@gmail.com>

Hi Dave,

Thank you very much for that document/database on camera mountings!? I 
may not need all of it, but there is certainly a lot there that I can 
use. Very useful!? Thank you for taking the time to find a version "that 
works" - it is much appreciated, and it will make it easy for someone 
who wants to develop this.

I don't know if you know that Roger Bunce has/had started work on a 
similar |"database" of information - it might be very useful for you to 
share info and ideas!

All this sort of information needs to be captured and stored where 
people can access it readily (the Tech Ops site being a natural for much 
of it!) while we still know about the stuff. The media museums, for 
example, don't cover the half of it!

Hand coding HTML can, in many cases, give a better result than using 
fancy interfaces!? It depends on the effect you are trying to achieve.? 
One "improvement" would be to include diagrams/pictures of the items - 
but I know, I know, it is very difficult to get hold of some useful 
pictures!

Thanks again!

-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502




From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Aug 22 08:46:04 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 14:46:04 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc
 gratefullyreceived!
In-Reply-To: <3e13974d-4679-98fe-d6f3-6fba5f888c66@howell61.f9.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<3e13974d-4679-98fe-d6f3-6fba5f888c66@howell61.f9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5d5e9c9d.1c69fb81.72d8e.8ca2@mx.google.com>

I regard ?parallel? tracking as incorrect. Parallel to what? The pickup on the TD7 tracked sideways along a radius of the disc!
And with the steel needles could not be wound back.
Pat
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: John Howell via Tech1
Sent: 20 August 2019 22:40
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefullyreceived!

One of the design features of the TD7 was its "parallel tracking" tone arm, I don't recognise your term 'radial tracking pickup'.
Hibou.

On 17/08/2019 17:40, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
Something that might be of interest regarding the grams turntables.
In the very early days, Lime Grove galleries were fitted with 78rpm turntables (TD7), with radial tracking pickups, and old-fashioned steel needles. It being impossible to back track the discs....................



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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Aug 22 08:47:46 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 14:47:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc
 gratefullyreceived!
In-Reply-To: <57e6f58410dave@davesound.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<3e13974d-4679-98fe-d6f3-6fba5f888c66@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<57e6f58410dave@davesound.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5d5e9d03.1c69fb81.a5987.7a4a@mx.google.com>

No definitely not! The steel needle would dig into the record if tried!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dave Plowman via Tech1
Sent: 21 August 2019 11:05
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefullyreceived!

In article <3e13974d-4679-98fe-d6f3-6fba5f888c66 at howell61.f9.co.uk>,
   John Howell via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> One of the design features of the TD7 was its "parallel tracking" tone 
> arm, I don't recognise your term 'radial tracking pickup'.

ISTR they could be back tracked too?

-- 
*If God dropped acid, would he see people?

    Dave Plowman     dave at davesound.co.uk     London SW 12
    

-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From davidslawson at btinternet.com  Thu Aug 22 09:23:25 2019
From: davidslawson at btinternet.com (David Lawson)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 15:23:25 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefully
 received!
In-Reply-To: <830d4c13-77db-33a1-c393-279a3b633bb3@gmail.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<903978A7-32D7-4A0C-B42D-C4EE37E2DF24@btinternet.com>
	<14292DAD-2F29-4904-898F-8FC8F01C397B@btinternet.com>
	<830d4c13-77db-33a1-c393-279a3b633bb3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F02BB317-9DF7-4EA8-8F16-4F0455A85FAE@btinternet.com>

It was my intention to include photos but after I ? fell? out of the industry I never got round to it. As I said if anyone would like to take it further you are free to do so.

Dave

> On 22 Aug 2019, at 14:45, Alec Bray <alec.bray.2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> Thank you very much for that document/database on camera mountings!  I may not need all of it, but there is certainly a lot there that I can use. Very useful!  Thank you for taking the time to find a version "that works" - it is much appreciated, and it will make it easy for someone who wants to develop this.
> 
> I don't know if you know that Roger Bunce has/had started work on a similar |"database" of information - it might be very useful for you to share info and ideas!
> 
> All this sort of information needs to be captured and stored where people can access it readily (the Tech Ops site being a natural for much of it!) while we still know about the stuff. The media museums, for example, don't cover the half of it!
> 
> Hand coding HTML can, in many cases, give a better result than using fancy interfaces!  It depends on the effect you are trying to achieve.  One "improvement" would be to include diagrams/pictures of the items - but I know, I know, it is very difficult to get hold of some useful pictures!
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> -- 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Alec
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502
> 
> 



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Aug 22 12:53:52 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 18:53:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Leevers Rich Tape machines
In-Reply-To: <4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5d5ed6b1.1c69fb81.35e02.296a@mx.google.com>

As a Gram Op in the 60s, I hated the Leevers Rich Machines.
They could stretch the tape, or not maintain constant speed.
They were the standard units in Studio R - Lime Grove, where I
toiled for hours, assembling the tapes for Dr. Who.
The only saving grace for those lousy machines was to create an effect of a transistor radio being dunked in a fish tank. I needed a broken up sound, which was achieved by mixing some bubbles into a recording of the music, and flicking the tape on an L-R, before the playback head!
I did have a moment with a TR90, though. Rehearsal playing of the end music, resulted in the tape gradually speeding up.
My SS and I played it again, and carefully watched the tape inch its way up the pinch roller/capstan, and flip over, thus the spool motor took over the transport and yanked the tape faster after the playback head!

As an aside ? one of the Bond films ? think it was ?You Only Live Twice? ? the Japanese train of the Jap agent had a bank of tape machines, which were TruVox ? British ? (I had one!). Think the set dresser should have put in a Sony or similar!
However, I won?t say anything against the set designer on  one of the Bonds I worked on as I wanted to purchase a cassette deck and Sony TV, off the production, which were featured as props. He wandered up to me towards the end of the Pinewood shoot, and said that what I wanted was in his office. Brand new, sealed boxes ? just extras ordered! OK they were properly paid for to the company, but at a huge discount!
Best
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Chris Woolf via Tech1
Sent: 19 August 2019 12:17
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Any Information on Vinten pedestals etc gratefullyreceived!

Leevers-Rich always struggled to play catch-up with US and European 
designs, and were really only kept going in the 60s (mostly by the BBC) 
because of some artificial tariffs against US imports and a reluctance 
to use "German" products. They couldn't match the performance of the 
competition, and by 1975 had belatedly recognised that they really never 
would.




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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Thu Aug 22 14:49:35 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 20:49:35 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Leevers Rich Tape machines
In-Reply-To: <5d5ed6b1.1c69fb81.35e02.296a@mx.google.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5d5ed6b1.1c69fb81.35e02.296a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <cbdbdff1-43f1-5c27-57da-a92d377f6d70@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 22/08/2019 18:53, patheigham wrote:
>
> I did have a moment with a TR90, though. Rehearsal playing of the end 
> music, resulted in the tape gradually speeding up.
>
> My SS and I played it again, and carefully watched the tape inch its 
> way up the pinch roller/capstan...
>
Classic problem of a pinchroller that isn't parallel to the capstan 
shaft - usually because the bearing's shot.

Chris Woolf

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Thu Aug 22 15:27:42 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 21:27:42 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Leevers Rich Tape machines
In-Reply-To: <cbdbdff1-43f1-5c27-57da-a92d377f6d70@chriswoolf.co.uk>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5d5ed6b1.1c69fb81.35e02.296a@mx.google.com>
	<cbdbdff1-43f1-5c27-57da-a92d377f6d70@chriswoolf.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5d5efabf.1c69fb81.25165.2f87@mx.google.com>

That I?m not surprised at.
I was about to enter LG, when I noticed a lorry unloading a TR90 outside.
They yanked it straight off the tail gate (no lift) and it fell four feet to ground.
Wonder if it ever worked again!
Dunno if it was one I?d ordered for Dr.Who LG ?D?

Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Chris Woolf
Sent: 22 August 2019 20:49
To: patheigham; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: Leevers Rich Tape machines
Classic problem of a pinchroller that isn't parallel to the capstan shaft - usually because the bearing's shot.
Chris Woolf



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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 23 01:28:54 2019
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 07:28:54 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Leevers Rich Tape machines
In-Reply-To: <5d5efabf.1c69fb81.25165.2f87@mx.google.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5d5ed6b1.1c69fb81.35e02.296a@mx.google.com>
	<cbdbdff1-43f1-5c27-57da-a92d377f6d70@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5d5efabf.1c69fb81.25165.2f87@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <0df4ab9f-7b8a-949f-0fc0-9c8e6d3bfaf6@gmail.com>

Hi Pat and all

On 22/08/2019 21:27, patheigham via Tech1 wrote:
> They yanked it straight off the tail gate (no lift) and it fell four 
> feet to ground.

Interesting, that!? When working for Retix, we developed an Ethernet 
Bridge? (directly connecting two Local Area Networks (LANs) together - 
we nowadays use routers which can connect any LANs together). This 
Bridge included a large motherboard and two daughter boards carried on a 
metal bridge (this WAS the late 1980s). The boxes to contain each one of 
these beasties was corrugated card about 750 mm x 500 mm x 350 mm sort 
of size - can't tell you exactly, it was a long time ago!

We delivered a load of these to BICC: and very shortly afterwards I got 
a call from their Quality Manager.? "Your bridges are broken."? As I was 
nominally Quality Manager for Retix? in the UK, I high tailed round to 
Hemel Hempstead to BICC.? All the devices I inspected had the metal 
bridge over the motherboard bent and broken.? "You dropped the pallet!" 
I said.? Which of course BICC denied - and we had no way of proving.? 
BICC said our packaging was at fault.

So immediately I got on to a packaging company.? You learn fast: the 
British Standard for packaging of this nature is that the package can be 
dropped from ONE METRE high on to one corner of the package onto 
concrete - and the contents must? remain unaffected.

It did not take long to redesign the packaging: within a week we had a 
new design: basically the same size corrugated card box, but with a 
structural set of reasonably rigid foam beams surrounding the Bridge,? 
It could be dropped from one metre on to one corner of the package onto 
hard concrete, and those metal bridges remained perfect.? Never had any 
more trouble,

We then developed a High Speed Ethernet Bridge - and, of course, the 
packaging to go with it - but Cisco beat us by designing routers...


-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502




From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 23 03:29:47 2019
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 09:29:47 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dimensions discrepancies!
Message-ID: <29a28be0-b9e5-3e55-e0bf-0f0f488941ae@gmail.com>

Hi,

I have measurements for the Vinten Heron Crane now from four different 
sources, each of which I trust.

But the dimensions given differ by up to about 7 to 8 percent!

It can be either squat and dumpy or long and thinner!? Or any combination!

-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502




From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 23 03:37:00 2019
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 09:37:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
Message-ID: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>

Hello to the men of sound,

Have any of you got dimensions for the microphone booms, such as the 
Mole Richardson and the Fisher (those being the only two that I know!): 
size (width and length), platform heights, max and min boom reach and so 
on, cradles, types of mics allowed etc , and any manufacturing info, 
usage considerations and so on?

What about hand-held "booms" (query what are these called?).

I have quite a bot of info about camera mounts but nothing about the 
"equivalents" for microphones? (showing my ignorance of sound matters 
here... sorry!)

-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502




From waresound at msn.com  Fri Aug 23 03:51:22 2019
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 08:51:22 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] Leevers Rich Tape machines
In-Reply-To: <5d5efabf.1c69fb81.25165.2f87@mx.google.com>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5d5ed6b1.1c69fb81.35e02.296a@mx.google.com>
	<cbdbdff1-43f1-5c27-57da-a92d377f6d70@chriswoolf.co.uk>,
	<5d5efabf.1c69fb81.25165.2f87@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB027193C421B26141017978D7A7A40@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Was that a different TR90 drop, or the same one you told us about last week?
? Nick.
Sent from my iPad

On 22 Aug 2019, at 21:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

That I?m not surprised at.
I was about to enter LG, when I noticed a lorry unloading a TR90 outside.
They yanked it straight off the tail gate (no lift) and it fell four feet to ground.
Wonder if it ever worked again!
Dunno if it was one I?d ordered for Dr.Who LG ?D?

Pat


Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Chris Woolf<mailto:chris at chriswoolf.co.uk>
Sent: 22 August 2019 20:49
To: patheigham<mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net>; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Leevers Rich Tape machines

Classic problem of a pinchroller that isn't parallel to the capstan shaft - usually because the bearing's shot.

Chris Woolf


[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>      Virus-free. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Fri Aug 23 04:04:52 2019
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 10:04:52 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
In-Reply-To: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>
References: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9C1B88B1-CC5E-41C4-8581-AC0018748381@btinternet.com>

Hi Alec,
	Here?s the sizes of the various booms, including the little used mini-boom, as per my BBC stencil?..

	The hand-held booms we called ?fishing rods? or ?poles??..how quaint!
Barry.

	


On 23 Aug 2019, at 09:37, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> Hello to the men of sound,
> 
> Have any of you got dimensions for the microphone booms, such as the Mole Richardson and the Fisher (those being the only two that I know!): size (width and length), platform heights, max and min boom reach and so on, cradles, types of mics allowed etc , and any manufacturing info, usage considerations and so on?
> 
> What about hand-held "booms" (query what are these called?).
> 
> I have quite a bot of info about camera mounts but nothing about the "equivalents" for microphones  (showing my ignorance of sound matters here... sorry!)
> 
> -- 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Alec
> 
> Alec Bray
> 
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From brian.curtis.bluesky at gmail.com  Fri Aug 23 04:28:03 2019
From: brian.curtis.bluesky at gmail.com (Brian Curtis)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 10:28:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
In-Reply-To: <9C1B88B1-CC5E-41C4-8581-AC0018748381@btinternet.com>
References: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>
	<9C1B88B1-CC5E-41C4-8581-AC0018748381@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAGVa-QeEbSmdOAosydJvjFKBXs5BcYhhk3nz6kdwL6Zq1nAYRA@mail.gmail.com>

Indeed as Barry says "fishing rods" or "fishing poles"!

Very quaint as in 1970 they were literally lengths of 1 inch diameter
bamboo pole with a microphone screw mount "glued" or camera taped to the
end to mount the mic, usually an AKG C28. At the other end a "project box"
was taped on which had a jack for Prog/TB.

One of my main tasks when working on "Elizabeth R" on Crew 5 was to be the
"Fishing pole" operator tracking backwards alongside a camera ped as Glenda
Jackson & Ronald Hine or Robert Hardy walked along a long "corridor" set
(Hampton Court?)

Cheers

Brian

On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 10:05, Barry Bonner via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> Hi Alec,
> Here?s the sizes of the various booms, including the little used
> mini-boom, as per my BBC stencil?..
>
> The hand-held booms we called ?fishing rods? or ?poles??..how quaint!
> Barry.
>
>
>
>
> On 23 Aug 2019, at 09:37, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> Hello to the men of sound,
>
> Have any of you got dimensions for the microphone booms, such as the Mole
> Richardson and the Fisher (those being the only two that I know!): size
> (width and length), platform heights, max and min boom reach and so on,
> cradles, types of mics allowed etc , and any manufacturing info, usage
> considerations and so on?
>
> What about hand-held "booms" (query what are these called?).
>
> I have quite a bot of info about camera mounts but nothing about the
> "equivalents" for microphones  (showing my ignorance of sound matters
> here... sorry!)
>
> --
>
> Best Regards
>
> Alec
>
> Alec Bray
>
> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
> mob:    07789 561 346
> home:   0118 981 7502
>
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From martin at theeccles.uk  Fri Aug 23 04:32:46 2019
From: martin at theeccles.uk (Martin Eccles)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 10:32:46 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
In-Reply-To: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>
References: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002e01d55995$b94a2160$2bde6420$@theeccles.uk>

Hi Alex,
The JL Fisher website has specifications of all the boom variations...

http://www.jlfisher.com/booms/index.asp

The BBC had modified model 6 bases with manual pump
and modified model 7 arms but as to what length I cannot remember.

They were modified because the Americans worked sitting down with their hands almost above their heads
and we worked stood up so that body weight could be used to move the arm about
so the platform had to be fixed closer relative to the arm on top of the column.

After the Mole booms that took an STC 4033 mic,
the Fishers started off with an AKG D25
then later an AKG C451 as standard microphones.

Still searching for my Fisher Boom workshop manual...
Martin.



-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alec Bray via Tech1
Sent: 23 August 2019 09:37
To: TechOps Forum <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...

Hello to the men of sound,

Have any of you got dimensions for the microphone booms, such as the Mole Richardson and the Fisher (those being the only two that I know!): 
size (width and length), platform heights, max and min boom reach and so on, cradles, types of mics allowed etc , and any manufacturing info, usage considerations and so on?

What about hand-held "booms" (query what are these called?).

I have quite a bot of info about camera mounts but nothing about the "equivalents" for microphones  (showing my ignorance of sound matters here... sorry!)

-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502



--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Fri Aug 23 04:47:09 2019
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 10:47:09 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
In-Reply-To: <9C1B88B1-CC5E-41C4-8581-AC0018748381@btinternet.com>
References: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>
	<9C1B88B1-CC5E-41C4-8581-AC0018748381@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <2CCAE18D1D454C84900291B892ACD4DF@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Oh Barry ? you?ve gone all metric! I well remember the rough and ready full extension of the MR boom as 17 ft. reach. I see from your splendid stencil it would actually have been 17 ft. 4 ins. This is a poor repro of a page from the Mole Richardson catalogue for 1960 :


The Americans were obviously less precise than the Beeb ? 17 ft (give or take).

All the best,

Dave Newbitt.

From: Barry Bonner via Tech1 
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2019 10:04 AM
To: Alec Bray 
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...

Hi Alec, 
Here?s the sizes of the various booms, including the little used mini-boom, as per my BBC stencil?..

The hand-held booms we called ?fishing rods? or ?poles??..how quaint!

Barry.







On 23 Aug 2019, at 09:37, Alec Bray via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


  Hello to the men of sound,

  Have any of you got dimensions for the microphone booms, such as the Mole Richardson and the Fisher (those being the only two that I know!): size (width and length), platform heights, max and min boom reach and so on, cradles, types of mics allowed etc , and any manufacturing info, usage considerations and so on?

  What about hand-held "booms" (query what are these called?).

  I have quite a bot of info about camera mounts but nothing about the "equivalents" for microphones  (showing my ignorance of sound matters here... sorry!)

  -- 

  Best Regards

  Alec

  Alec Bray

  alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
  mob:    07789 561 346
  home:   0118 981 7502



  -- 
  Tech1 mailing list
  Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
  http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From martin at theeccles.uk  Fri Aug 23 04:49:37 2019
From: martin at theeccles.uk (Martin Eccles)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 10:49:37 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
Message-ID: <002f01d55998$144f2590$3ced70b0$@theeccles.uk>

 

Hi Alex,

The JL Fisher website has specifications of all the boom variations...

 

http://www.jlfisher.com/booms/index.asp

 

The BBC had modified model 6 bases with manual pump and modified model 7 arms but as to what length I cannot remember.

 

They were modified because the Americans worked sitting down with their hands almost above their heads and we worked stood up so that body weight could be used to move the arm about so the platform had to be fixed closer relative to the arm on top of the column.

 

After the Mole booms that took an STC 4033 mic, the Fishers started off with an AKG D25 then later an AKG C451 as standard microphones.

 

Still searching for my Fisher Boom workshop manual...

Martin.

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Tech1 < <mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alec Bray via Tech1

Sent: 23 August 2019 09:37

To: TechOps Forum < <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>

Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...

 

Hello to the men of sound,

 

Have any of you got dimensions for the microphone booms, such as the Mole Richardson and the Fisher (those being the only two that I know!): 

size (width and length), platform heights, max and min boom reach and so on, cradles, types of mics allowed etc , and any manufacturing info, usage considerations and so on?

 

What about hand-held "booms" (query what are these called?).

 

I have quite a bot of info about camera mounts but nothing about the "equivalents" for microphones  (showing my ignorance of sound matters here... sorry!)

 

-- 

 

Best Regards

 

Alec

 

Alec Bray

 

 <mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com

mob:    07789 561 346

home:   0118 981 7502

 

 

 

--

Tech1 mailing list

 <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk

 <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 23 04:55:51 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 10:55:51 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
In-Reply-To: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>
References: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cc7e6841-dd3a-652e-6755-2dadd61297e4@ntlworld.com>

Fisher give the dimensions - 
http://www.jlfisher.com/booms/model_7_boom/index.asp

B



On 23/08/2019 09:37, Alec Bray via Tech1 wrote:
> Hello to the men of sound,
>
> Have any of you got dimensions for the microphone booms, such as the 
> Mole Richardson and the Fisher (those being the only two that I 
> know!): size (width and length), platform heights, max and min boom 
> reach and so on, cradles, types of mics allowed etc , and any 
> manufacturing info, usage considerations and so on?
>
> What about hand-held "booms" (query what are these called?).
>
> I have quite a bot of info about camera mounts but nothing about the 
> "equivalents" for microphones? (showing my ignorance of sound matters 
> here... sorry!)
>

-------------- next part --------------
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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Fri Aug 23 05:02:03 2019
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 11:02:03 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
In-Reply-To: <CAGVa-QeEbSmdOAosydJvjFKBXs5BcYhhk3nz6kdwL6Zq1nAYRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>
	<9C1B88B1-CC5E-41C4-8581-AC0018748381@btinternet.com>
	<CAGVa-QeEbSmdOAosydJvjFKBXs5BcYhhk3nz6kdwL6Zq1nAYRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f3baf1f1-c222-6252-4fec-38e98357a03d@btinternet.com>

Perhaps Pat Heigham can clarify - I can't imagine a Fisher boom being 
used outdoors so when someone gets a 'Boom' credit on a feature film 
don't they mean 'fish-pole operator?'. Cheers, Dave


From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Fri Aug 23 05:04:44 2019
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 11:04:44 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
In-Reply-To: <2CCAE18D1D454C84900291B892ACD4DF@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
References: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>
	<9C1B88B1-CC5E-41C4-8581-AC0018748381@btinternet.com>
	<2CCAE18D1D454C84900291B892ACD4DF@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>
Message-ID: <C4D8EAC1-8AE1-4240-BB10-575AB1D724BC@btinternet.com>

Hi Dave,
	I also hate metric! Designed, maybe, to help the mathematically challenged! I have 3 stencils dated, 1972 (Television Apparatus), 1973 (Sound Dimensions), & 1988 (Sound Dimensions), all of which are metric. 

	Don?t know if the earlier ones were imperial.
Barry.



On 23 Aug 2019, at 10:47, David Newbitt <dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net> wrote:

> Oh Barry ? you?ve gone all metric! I well remember the rough and ready full extension of the MR boom as 17 ft. reach. I see from your splendid stencil it would actually have been 17 ft. 4 ins. This is a poor repro of a page from the Mole Richardson catalogue for 1960 :
> <Mole%20Richardson%20Catalogue%201960%20Boom%20type%20103b%20dimensions[4].jpg>
>  
> The Americans were obviously less precise than the Beeb ? 17 ft (give or take).
>  
> All the best,
>  
> Dave Newbitt.
>  

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From martin at theeccles.uk  Fri Aug 23 05:11:22 2019
From: martin at theeccles.uk (Martin Eccles)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 11:11:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
Message-ID: <004001d5599b$1e1986d0$5a4c9470$@theeccles.uk>

 

Hi Alex,

The JL Fisher website has specifications of all the boom variations...

 

http://www.jlfisher.com/booms/index.asp

 

The BBC had modified model 6 bases with manual pump and modified model 7 arms but as to what length I cannot remember.

 

They were modified because the Americans worked sitting down with their hands almost above their heads and we worked stood up so that body weight could be used to move the arm about so the platform had to be fixed closer relative to the arm on top of the column.

 

After the Mole booms that took an STC 4033 mic, the Fishers started off with an AKG D25 then later an AKG C451 as standard microphones.

 

Still searching for my Fisher Boom workshop manual...

Martin.

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Tech1 < <mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of Alec Bray via Tech1

Sent: 23 August 2019 09:37

To: TechOps Forum < <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>

Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...

 

Hello to the men of sound,

 

Have any of you got dimensions for the microphone booms, such as the Mole Richardson and the Fisher (those being the only two that I know!): 

size (width and length), platform heights, max and min boom reach and so on, cradles, types of mics allowed etc , and any manufacturing info, usage considerations and so on?

 

What about hand-held "booms" (query what are these called?).

 

I have quite a bot of info about camera mounts but nothing about the "equivalents" for microphones  (showing my ignorance of sound matters here... sorry!)

 

-- 

 

Best Regards

 

Alec

 

Alec Bray

 

 <mailto:alec.bray.2 at gmail.com> alec.bray.2 at gmail.com

mob:    07789 561 346

home:   0118 981 7502

 

 

 

--

Tech1 mailing list

 <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk

 <http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From alec.bray.2 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 23 05:37:58 2019
From: alec.bray.2 at gmail.com (Alec Bray)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 11:37:58 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] re Booms from martin@theeccles.uk
Message-ID: <fbc1003a-ade8-a676-d957-c8931eddf2ea@gmail.com>

I thought that quite a few of you would like to see this:
Martin (martin at theeccles.uk) has written:

=========

Sorry, can't send to tech1 this morning ! ? !

The JL Fisher website has specifications of all the boom variations...

http://www.jlfisher.com/booms/index.asp

The BBC had modified model 6 bases with manual pump and modified model 7 arms but as to what length I cannot remember.

They were modified because the Americans worked sitting down with their hands almost above their heads and we worked stood up so that body weight could be used to move the arm about.
That meant the platform had to be fixed closer relative to the arm on top of the column.

After the Mole booms that took an STC 4033 mic, the Fishers started off with an AKG D25 then later an AKG C451 as standard microphones.

Still searching for my Fisher Boom workshop manual...
Martin.

==========

My thanks to Martin for all this information!

-- 

Best Regards

Alec

Alec Bray

alec.bray.2 at gmail.com
mob:    07789 561 346
home:   0118 981 7502



From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Aug 23 06:37:59 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 12:37:59 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
In-Reply-To: <f3baf1f1-c222-6252-4fec-38e98357a03d@btinternet.com>
References: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>
	<9C1B88B1-CC5E-41C4-8581-AC0018748381@btinternet.com>
	<CAGVa-QeEbSmdOAosydJvjFKBXs5BcYhhk3nz6kdwL6Zq1nAYRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3baf1f1-c222-6252-4fec-38e98357a03d@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5d5fd017.1c69fb81.a1de9.e7ec@mx.google.com>

I?ve never known the ?studio? Fisher being used outside, but the mini-Fisher, known by me as the ?film? Fisher was frequently used by the BBC Film Unit out of Ealing. One was taken to Yugoslavia for ?Fiddler on the Roof?. The arm just fitted on brackets inside our sound truck which was a Citroen, with the corrugated sides! With an 815 or 816, in the capable hands of operator John Stevenson, virtually 100% of usable dialogue sound was achieved. Or John used a Panamic pole on congested sets. Boom Operator was the screen credit (if given at all!) whether a pole or dolly boom was involved.
I agree with Martin that the more sensible way of operating the studio Fisher, or Mole Richardson was to have the arm at hip level, thus the balance was such that a slight downward pressure was needed from the left hand to control the angle of the arm.
I have  the idea that the studio Fisher had a reach of 33 ft, thus enabling pedestal cameras to have enough room to work in front.
I operated the ?film? Fisher on a Pinewood movie, with electronic cameras, which severely restricted their space.
In the late sixties, in the TVT, the M-R boom was fitted with an extra ?u? shaped bracket under the 4033, to take a C28. It meant running two mic cables over the pulleys, but that seemed to work OK.
On Films these days, it?s seldom that a dolly boom is used, nearly all is done with poles ? this has a detrimental problem, because the telescopic facility is lost, and if the set is a real room, not much space to walk backwards and forwards to follow.
I have a story wherein Michael Winner spent a considerable time telling me how to Boom Operate!
 I?ve attached a document that was put together by a number of splendid people, which I reckon is pretty accurate. It might answer some of the questions recently posted, although as technology moves on, it needs updating ? volunteers, anyone?
Best
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: dave.mdv via Tech1
Sent: 23 August 2019 11:02
To: Brian Curtis; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...

Perhaps Pat Heigham can clarify - I can't imagine a Fisher boom being 
used outdoors so when someone gets a 'Boom' credit on a feature film 
don't they mean 'fish-pole operator?'. Cheers, Dave

-- 
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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Aug 23 06:40:18 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 12:40:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Leevers Rich Tape machines
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB027193C421B26141017978D7A7A40@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <ab545dec-3e80-bf63-ca70-b948622a93db@gmail.com>
	<5d582e1a.1c69fb81.50a7e.2e74@mx.google.com>
	<5C54F874-3ACD-4C1D-AD94-4DF7DA4AB1B2@mac.com>
	<5e3be7e7-044f-cdff-45b2-345376d7a0d3@howell61.f9.co.uk>
	<VI1P192MB02713FED80C13F3EC520D2A1A7A90@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<f54e41a2-aa7a-aa04-08c3-9f932a5521a1@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<57e5ee4d22dave@davesound.co.uk>
	<4a2e5cf9-238c-60eb-71e6-a58b9a1ee756@chriswoolf.co.uk>
	<5d5ed6b1.1c69fb81.35e02.296a@mx.google.com>
	<cbdbdff1-43f1-5c27-57da-a92d377f6d70@chriswoolf.co.uk>,
	<5d5efabf.1c69fb81.25165.2f87@mx.google.com>
	<VI1P192MB027193C421B26141017978D7A7A40@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <5d5fd0a2.1c69fb81.b7f85.80c4@mx.google.com>

I think, the same one. With the passing of time (or should that be ?wine?) one forgets what one has written!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: 23 August 2019 09:51
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Leevers Rich Tape machines

Was that a different TR90 drop, or the same one you told us about last week?
? Nick.
Sent from my iPad

On 22 Aug 2019, at 21:28, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
That I?m not surprised at.
I was about to enter LG, when I noticed a lorry unloading a TR90 outside.
They yanked it straight off the tail gate (no lift) and it fell four feet to ground.
Wonder if it ever worked again!
Dunno if it was one I?d ordered for Dr.Who LG ?D?
?
Pat
?
?
?



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From martin at theeccles.uk  Fri Aug 23 06:46:39 2019
From: martin at theeccles.uk (Martin Eccles)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 12:46:39 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms
Message-ID: <00a201d559a8$6da02fd0$48e08f70$@theeccles.uk>

Hi Alex,

The JL Fisher website has specifications of all the boom variations...

 

 <http://www.jlfisher.com/booms/index.asp>
http://www.jlfisher.com/booms/index.asp

 

The BBC had modified model 6 bases with manual pump and modified model 7
arms but as to what length I cannot remember.

 

They were modified because the Americans worked sitting down with their
hands almost above their heads and we worked stood up so that body weight
could be used to move the arm about so the platform had to be fixed closer
relative to the arm on top of the column.

 

After the Mole booms that took an STC 4033 mic, the Fishers started off with
an AKG D25 then later an AKG C451 as standard microphones.

 

Still searching for my Fisher Boom workshop manual...

Martin.

 

-------------- next part --------------
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From barrybonner119 at btinternet.com  Fri Aug 23 09:38:27 2019
From: barrybonner119 at btinternet.com (Barry Bonner)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 15:38:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
In-Reply-To: <5d5fd017.1c69fb81.a1de9.e7ec@mx.google.com>
References: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>
	<9C1B88B1-CC5E-41C4-8581-AC0018748381@btinternet.com>
	<CAGVa-QeEbSmdOAosydJvjFKBXs5BcYhhk3nz6kdwL6Zq1nAYRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3baf1f1-c222-6252-4fec-38e98357a03d@btinternet.com>
	<5d5fd017.1c69fb81.a1de9.e7ec@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <9AA118AE-7F46-4D02-92C7-C7B680E2DD40@btinternet.com>

Pat,
	We only used the shorter version (approx. 20ft.) of the Fisher in the TC studios. Cameras could work right up to the platform as there was sufficient height with the platform at the top.
Barry.



On 23 Aug 2019, at 12:37, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:

> I?ve never known the ?studio? Fisher being used outside, but the mini-Fisher, known by me as the ?film? Fisher was frequently used by the BBC Film Unit out of Ealing. One was taken to Yugoslavia for ?Fiddler on the Roof?. The arm just fitted on brackets inside our sound truck which was a Citroen, with the corrugated sides! With an 815 or 816, in the capable hands of operator John Stevenson, virtually 100% of usable dialogue sound was achieved. Or John used a Panamic pole on congested sets. Boom Operator was the screen credit (if given at all!) whether a pole or dolly boom was involved.
> I agree with Martin that the more sensible way of operating the studio Fisher, or Mole Richardson was to have the arm at hip level, thus the balance was such that a slight downward pressure was needed from the left hand to control the angle of the arm.
> I have  the idea that the studio Fisher had a reach of 33 ft, thus enabling pedestal cameras to have enough room to work in front.
> I operated the ?film? Fisher on a Pinewood movie, with electronic cameras, which severely restricted their space.
> In the late sixties, in the TVT, the M-R boom was fitted with an extra ?u? shaped bracket under the 4033, to take a C28. It meant running two mic cables over the pulleys, but that seemed to work OK.
> On Films these days, it?s seldom that a dolly boom is used, nearly all is done with poles ? this has a detrimental problem, because the telescopic facility is lost, and if the set is a real room, not much space to walk backwards and forwards to follow.
> I have a story wherein Michael Winner spent a considerable time telling me how to Boom Operate!
> I?ve attached a document that was put together by a number of splendid people, which I reckon is pretty accurate. It might answer some of the questions recently posted, although as technology moves on, it needs updating ? volunteers, anyone?
> Best
> Pat
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: dave.mdv via Tech1
> Sent: 23 August 2019 11:02
> To: Brian Curtis; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
>  
> Perhaps Pat Heigham can clarify - I can't imagine a Fisher boom being
> used outdoors so when someone gets a 'Boom' credit on a feature film
> don't they mean 'fish-pole operator?'. Cheers, Dave
>  
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>  
> 
> 	Virus-free. www.avast.com
> <DiscourseonTVTechnologyMasterFINAL_PJC_v1.docx>-- 
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> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Aug 23 11:29:16 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 17:29:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
In-Reply-To: <9AA118AE-7F46-4D02-92C7-C7B680E2DD40@btinternet.com>
References: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>
	<9C1B88B1-CC5E-41C4-8581-AC0018748381@btinternet.com>
	<CAGVa-QeEbSmdOAosydJvjFKBXs5BcYhhk3nz6kdwL6Zq1nAYRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3baf1f1-c222-6252-4fec-38e98357a03d@btinternet.com>
	<5d5fd017.1c69fb81.a1de9.e7ec@mx.google.com>
	<9AA118AE-7F46-4D02-92C7-C7B680E2DD40@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5d60145c.1c69fb81.4cd5b.30c6@mx.google.com>

I stand corrected, Barry, but I still have 33ft in my memory.
As well as room in front for cameras, it was necessary to be able to reach the back of a sit-com set. I doubt that 20ft would be sufficient.
Anyone else got a theory about this?

Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Barry Bonner
Sent: 23 August 2019 15:38
To: patheigham
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...

Pat,
	We only used the shorter version (approx. 20ft.) of the Fisher in the TC studios. Cameras could work right up to the platform as there was sufficient height with the platform at the top.
Barry.





---
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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Fri Aug 23 12:00:36 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 18:00:36 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
In-Reply-To: <9AA118AE-7F46-4D02-92C7-C7B680E2DD40@btinternet.com>
References: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>
	<9C1B88B1-CC5E-41C4-8581-AC0018748381@btinternet.com>
	<CAGVa-QeEbSmdOAosydJvjFKBXs5BcYhhk3nz6kdwL6Zq1nAYRA@mail.gmail.com>
	<f3baf1f1-c222-6252-4fec-38e98357a03d@btinternet.com>
	<5d5fd017.1c69fb81.a1de9.e7ec@mx.google.com>
	<9AA118AE-7F46-4D02-92C7-C7B680E2DD40@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <5d601bb4.1c69fb81.1472e.a5be@mx.google.com>


From the Fisher website, here is the 33 ft entry, which probably stuck in my head:



???7X9??29-Foot
??Minimum length 
21 feet 6 inches (655.32 cm) 

??Maximum length 
33 feet 8 inches (1026.16 cm)

??Minimum reach
17 feet (518.16 cm)

??Maximum reach
29 feet 2 inches (889 cm)

??Telescopic travel
12 feet 2 inches (370.84 cm)

??Rear Projection
4 feet 4 inches (132.08 cm)

??Weight
58 pounds (26.31 kg)




???All
??Maximum payload
5 pounds (2.27 kg) 

??Boom pivot
52 degrees 

??Boom pan
360 degrees














From: Barry Bonner
Sent: 23 August 2019 15:38
To: patheigham
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...

Pat,
	We only used the shorter version (approx. 20ft.) of the Fisher in the TC studios. Cameras could work right up to the platform as there was sufficient height with the platform at the top.
Barry.





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From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Fri Aug 23 12:08:40 2019
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (David Denness)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 18:08:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...
In-Reply-To: <5d60145c.1c69fb81.4cd5b.30c6@mx.google.com>
References: <5595888c-1906-a99c-e4c6-265d5fac328d@gmail.com>	<9C1B88B1-CC5E-41C4-8581-AC0018748381@btinternet.com>	<CAGVa-QeEbSmdOAosydJvjFKBXs5BcYhhk3nz6kdwL6Zq1nAYRA@mail.gmail.com>	<f3baf1f1-c222-6252-4fec-38e98357a03d@btinternet.com>	<5d5fd017.1c69fb81.a1de9.e7ec@mx.google.com>	<9AA118AE-7F46-4D02-92C7-C7B680E2DD40@btinternet.com>
	<5d60145c.1c69fb81.4cd5b.30c6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <004601d559d5$69567ec0$3c037c40$@gmail.com>

I agree with Barry. The studio Fishers at every TV studio I?ve ever operated in had a reach of 20 ft, and the MR 18ft 6 ins as I recall.

One can always find someone imagining something is bigger than reality.

 

Dave D

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of patheigham via Tech1
Sent: 23 August 2019 17:29
To: Barry Bonner <barrybonner119 at btinternet.com>
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...

 

I stand corrected, Barry, but I still have 33ft in my memory.

As well as room in front for cameras, it was necessary to be able to reach the back of a sit-com set. I doubt that 20ft would be sufficient.

Anyone else got a theory about this?

 

Pat

 

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10

 

From: Barry Bonner <mailto:barrybonner119 at btinternet.com> 
Sent: 23 August 2019 15:38
To: patheigham <mailto:pat.heigham at amps.net> 
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Booms Booms ...

 

Pat,

              We only used the shorter version (approx. 20ft.) of the Fisher in the TC studios. Cameras could work right up to the platform as there was sufficient height with the platform at the top.

Barry.

 

 

 

 


 <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> 

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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Fri Aug 23 14:20:12 2019
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 20:20:12 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] tech ops sound equipment from the 1960's
Message-ID: <01CFC4E87EEA497EB192B31AA61FEEA8@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Recent flurry of posts re Leevers Rich & other tape machines, gram decks, microphones, synchronisation matters etc. prompted me to root out my hoard of manufacturers brochures to see if any of it might interest you folk.

My collection of this material stems from an involvement I had in late 1967 with a venture which ultimately I did not pursue, but I find I have a fair quantity of detailed tech info from Leevers Rich, Stefan Kudelski/Hayden Laboratories (Nagra), EMT (Studer),TRD, Scopetronics, AKG, Beyer, Rank Studio Equipment (Westrex), RCA and Tannoy (pickups- not spkrs). I still also have the correspondence and quotations in some instances and also two copies of a reprint from ?British Kinematography? March 1964 of a paper by Norman Leevers about the Syncropulse System with an introductory piece on synchronous tape sound systems by G. Salter. 

If I scanned this material would there be any reasonable way I could make the results available to anyone interested in either PDF or Word Document form? I doubt the email system is geared up for multiple attachments.

Best wishes to all,

Dave Newbitt 
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From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Sat Aug 24 11:25:21 2019
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 16:25:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Direct Debits
References: <560791968.1499618.1566663921054.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <560791968.1499618.1566663921054@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi All,
Not Tech-Ops related, but - Has anyone else had a problem with Direct Debits being cancelled without authorisation.
1: A couple of days ago, we received an email from the DVLA saying that the Direct Debit for our car tax has been cancelled, apparently by us. Ring the DVLA to say we hadn't authorised this. Ring the Bank to reinstate it, which they do, but this isn't good enough for the DVLA who say we have to start again with a new Direct Debit.
2: The day before yesterday, we receive an email from the local council saying that our Direct Debit for garden waste collection has been cancelled. This time we go to the bank and get it reinstated.
3: Yesterday, a email from the TV Licensing people says that the Direct Debit to them has been cancelled (The greatest crime of all!). Back to the Bank to make sure that all three are reinstated. Meet the Bank's IT man who is baffled. He can only suggest a "Glitch in the system".
4: Today we receive a letter from the Salvation Army, reporting that our Direct Debit to them has been cancelled. To the Bank again, who now discover that ALL our Direct Debits have been cancelled (something which wasn't evident on their system even yesterday), apart from the three we had already reinstated. So, we spend most of Saturday morning sitting with a Bank Manager, going through all our Direct Debits, reactivating them.
We don't do Internet Banking, so a malicious hack seem unlikely - anyway, why would they?
I don't suppose anyone has a solution - but I just felt the need to winge at someone - and you lot were handy!
luv, Rog.
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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Sat Aug 24 12:47:34 2019
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 18:47:34 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Direct Debits
In-Reply-To: <560791968.1499618.1566663921054@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <560791968.1499618.1566663921054.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<560791968.1499618.1566663921054@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5762698FCAF94A57A97AE90D537094E1@Gigabyte>

I think this is some sort of scam as I seem to remember I received an e-mail a while ago saying my DVLA DD had been cancelled and I needed to renew it or something.
Since I don?t do it by DD but simply pay each year (I wonder if they are still going to do official (postal?) reminders) I just deleted it without doing my usual ?show properties - details ? message source? investigation.

Mike

From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2019 5:25 PM
To: dave.mdv via Tech1 
Subject: [Tech1] Direct Debits

Hi All,

Not Tech-Ops related, but - Has anyone else had a problem with Direct Debits being cancelled without authorisation.

1: A couple of days ago, we received an email from the DVLA saying that the Direct Debit for our car tax has been cancelled, apparently by us. Ring the DVLA to say we hadn't authorised this. Ring the Bank to reinstate it, which they do, but this isn't good enough for the DVLA who say we have to start again with a new Direct Debit.

2: The day before yesterday, we receive an email from the local council saying that our Direct Debit for garden waste collection has been cancelled. This time we go to the bank and get it reinstated.

3: Yesterday, a email from the TV Licensing people says that the Direct Debit to them has been cancelled (The greatest crime of all!). Back to the Bank to make sure that all three are reinstated. Meet the Bank's IT man who is baffled. He can only suggest a "Glitch in the system".

4: Today we receive a letter from the Salvation Army, reporting that our Direct Debit to them has been cancelled. To the Bank again, who now discover that ALL our Direct Debits have been cancelled (something which wasn't evident on their system even yesterday), apart from the three we had already reinstated. So, we spend most of Saturday morning sitting with a Bank Manager, going through all our Direct Debits, reactivating them.

We don't do Internet Banking, so a malicious hack seem unlikely - anyway, why would they?

I don't suppose anyone has a solution - but I just felt the need to winge at someone - and you lot were handy!

luv, Rog.
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Sat Aug 24 12:51:04 2019
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 18:51:04 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Direct Debits
In-Reply-To: <5762698FCAF94A57A97AE90D537094E1@Gigabyte>
References: <560791968.1499618.1566663921054.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<560791968.1499618.1566663921054@mail.yahoo.com>
	<5762698FCAF94A57A97AE90D537094E1@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <2F3D487E-B071-4E72-AB88-8CF2AC610118@icloud.com>

The TV licence scam is a popular one as the crooks know what the correct amount is which makes it look more official.
? 
Graeme Wall


> On 24 Aug 2019, at 18:47, Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I think this is some sort of scam as I seem to remember I received an e-mail a while ago saying my DVLA DD had been cancelled and I needed to renew it or something.
> Since I don?t do it by DD but simply pay each year (I wonder if they are still going to do official (postal?) reminders) I just deleted it without doing my usual ?show properties - details ? message source? investigation.
>  
> Mike
>  
> From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1
> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2019 5:25 PM
> To: dave.mdv via Tech1
> Subject: [Tech1] Direct Debits
>  
> Hi All,
>  
> Not Tech-Ops related, but - Has anyone else had a problem with Direct Debits being cancelled without authorisation.
>  
> 1: A couple of days ago, we received an email from the DVLA saying that the Direct Debit for our car tax has been cancelled, apparently by us. Ring the DVLA to say we hadn't authorised this. Ring the Bank to reinstate it, which they do, but this isn't good enough for the DVLA who say we have to start again with a new Direct Debit.
>  
> 2: The day before yesterday, we receive an email from the local council saying that our Direct Debit for garden waste collection has been cancelled. This time we go to the bank and get it reinstated.
>  
> 3: Yesterday, a email from the TV Licensing people says that the Direct Debit to them has been cancelled (The greatest crime of all!). Back to the Bank to make sure that all three are reinstated. Meet the Bank's IT man who is baffled. He can only suggest a "Glitch in the system".
>  
> 4: Today we receive a letter from the Salvation Army, reporting that our Direct Debit to them has been cancelled. To the Bank again, who now discover that ALL our Direct Debits have been cancelled (something which wasn't evident on their system even yesterday), apart from the three we had already reinstated. So, we spend most of Saturday morning sitting with a Bank Manager, going through all our Direct Debits, reactivating them.
>  
> We don't do Internet Banking, so a malicious hack seem unlikely - anyway, why would they?
>  
> I don't suppose anyone has a solution - but I just felt the need to winge at someone - and you lot were handy!
>  
> luv, Rog.
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From mibridge at mac.com  Sat Aug 24 13:39:55 2019
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2019 19:39:55 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Direct Debits
In-Reply-To: <5762698FCAF94A57A97AE90D537094E1@Gigabyte>
References: <560791968.1499618.1566663921054.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<560791968.1499618.1566663921054@mail.yahoo.com>
	<5762698FCAF94A57A97AE90D537094E1@Gigabyte>
Message-ID: <C24560D0-4BED-4A63-9B3B-B6ED9B4D53DE@mac.com>

More by way of a reverse scam! Had the bank any other instances of this?

Mike G

> On 24 Aug 2019, at 18:47, Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I think this is some sort of scam as I seem to remember I received an e-mail a while ago saying my DVLA DD had been cancelled and I needed to renew it or something.
> Since I don?t do it by DD but simply pay each year (I wonder if they are still going to do official (postal?) reminders) I just deleted it without doing my usual ?show properties - details ? message source? investigation.
>  
> Mike
>  
> From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1
> Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2019 5:25 PM
> To: dave.mdv via Tech1
> Subject: [Tech1] Direct Debits
>  
> Hi All,
>  
> Not Tech-Ops related, but - Has anyone else had a problem with Direct Debits being cancelled without authorisation.
>  
> 1: A couple of days ago, we received an email from the DVLA saying that the Direct Debit for our car tax has been cancelled, apparently by us. Ring the DVLA to say we hadn't authorised this. Ring the Bank to reinstate it, which they do, but this isn't good enough for the DVLA who say we have to start again with a new Direct Debit.
>  
> 2: The day before yesterday, we receive an email from the local council saying that our Direct Debit for garden waste collection has been cancelled. This time we go to the bank and get it reinstated.
>  
> 3: Yesterday, a email from the TV Licensing people says that the Direct Debit to them has been cancelled (The greatest crime of all!). Back to the Bank to make sure that all three are reinstated. Meet the Bank's IT man who is baffled. He can only suggest a "Glitch in the system".
>  
> 4: Today we receive a letter from the Salvation Army, reporting that our Direct Debit to them has been cancelled. To the Bank again, who now discover that ALL our Direct Debits have been cancelled (something which wasn't evident on their system even yesterday), apart from the three we had already reinstated. So, we spend most of Saturday morning sitting with a Bank Manager, going through all our Direct Debits, reactivating them.
>  
> We don't do Internet Banking, so a malicious hack seem unlikely - anyway, why would they?
>  
> I don't suppose anyone has a solution - but I just felt the need to winge at someone - and you lot were handy!
>  
> luv, Rog.
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From rogerbunce at btinternet.com  Sun Aug 25 03:52:47 2019
From: rogerbunce at btinternet.com (ROGER BUNCE)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 08:52:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Tech1] Direct Debits
In-Reply-To: <C24560D0-4BED-4A63-9B3B-B6ED9B4D53DE@mac.com>
References: <560791968.1499618.1566663921054.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<560791968.1499618.1566663921054@mail.yahoo.com>
	<5762698FCAF94A57A97AE90D537094E1@Gigabyte>
	<C24560D0-4BED-4A63-9B3B-B6ED9B4D53DE@mac.com>
Message-ID: <36482799.1641763.1566723167629@mail.yahoo.com>

 Hi David,
I think the quill pen and Bob Cratchett rule still applies. A DD should be controlled by the recipient. The Bank shouldn't have any say in the matter, unless they've received specific instructions from us (which they haven't), or, I suppose, if there are inadequate funds to pay it (which isn't the case.) - Yes, open on Saturday morning, but with limited staff (they used the phrase 'Skeleton Staff', but they all looked reasonably well fed to me).
Hi Mike, Mike and Graham,
It doesn't seem to be a scam, at least, not a simple one. These were genuine Direct Debits and the Bank recognises that they have genuinely been cancelled, without authorisation, but are unable to explain how or why. They didn't mention any similar cases. They are hoping to find out more after the Bank Holiday, when other departments reopen.
luv, Rog.?
    On Saturday, 24 August 2019, 19:40:03 BST, Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com> wrote:  
 
 More by way of a reverse scam! Had the bank any other instances of this?
Mike G
On 24 Aug 2019, at 18:47, Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:


I think this is some sort of scam as I seem to remember I received an e-mail a while ago saying my DVLA DD had been cancelled and I needed to renew it or something.Since I don?t do it by DD but simply pay each year (I wonder if they are still going to do official (postal?) reminders) I just deleted it without doing my usual ?show properties - details ? message source? investigation.?Mike?From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2019 5:25 PMTo: dave.mdv via Tech1 Subject: [Tech1] Direct Debits?Hi All,?Not Tech-Ops related, but - Has anyone else had a problem with Direct Debits being cancelled without authorisation.?1: A couple of days ago, we received an email from the DVLA saying that the Direct Debit for our car tax has been cancelled, apparently by us. Ring the DVLA to say we hadn't authorised this. Ring the Bank to reinstate it, which they do, but this isn't good enough for the DVLA who say we have to start again with a new Direct Debit.?2: The day before yesterday, we receive an email from the local council saying that our Direct Debit for garden waste collection has been cancelled. This time we go to the bank and get it reinstated.?3: Yesterday, a email from the TV Licensing people says that the Direct Debit to them has been cancelled (The greatest crime of all!). Back to the Bank to make sure that all three are reinstated. Meet the Bank's IT man who is baffled. He can only suggest a "Glitch in the system".?4: Today we receive a letter from the Salvation Army, reporting that our Direct Debit to them has been cancelled. To the Bank again, who now discover that ALL our Direct Debits have been cancelled (something which wasn't evident on their system even yesterday), apart from the three we had already reinstated. So, we spend most of Saturday morning sitting with a Bank Manager, going through all our Direct Debits, reactivating them.?We don't do Internet Banking, so a malicious hack seem unlikely - anyway, why would they??I don't suppose anyone has a solution - but I just felt the need to winge at someone - and you lot were handy!?luv, Rog.

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Aug 25 04:49:19 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 10:49:19 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Direct Debits
In-Reply-To: <36482799.1641763.1566723167629@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <560791968.1499618.1566663921054.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<560791968.1499618.1566663921054@mail.yahoo.com>
	<5762698FCAF94A57A97AE90D537094E1@Gigabyte>
	<C24560D0-4BED-4A63-9B3B-B6ED9B4D53DE@mac.com>
	<36482799.1641763.1566723167629@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5d6259a0.1c69fb81.901b6.1465@mx.google.com>

Hi Rog,
I did get a postal reminder from DVLA, and as I use Internet Banking, was able to pay my dues electronically, not by DD, and duly printed out a receipt.
As far as I?m aware, DD?s can only be set up or cancelled by the payer, the company or merchant cannot cancel from their end. The Guild for which I acted as membership secretary, offered DD for membership fees, and I believe that we were able to adjust the amount when fees increased. Standing Orders were another matter ? it was the devil of a job to get members to adjust those!
With Internet Banking, one can view DD?s in place and delete or set-up as required, and my bank always sends a confirming text to my mobile ? saying if it wasn?t me who ordered it, then contact them immediately.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1
Sent: 25 August 2019 09:53
To: dave.mdv via Tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Direct Debits

Hi David,

I think the quill pen and Bob Cratchett rule still applies. A DD should be controlled by the recipient. The Bank shouldn't have any say in the matter, unless they've received specific instructions from us (which they haven't), or, I suppose, if there are inadequate funds to pay it (which isn't the case.) - Yes, open on Saturday morning, but with limited staff (they used the phrase 'Skeleton Staff', but they all looked reasonably well fed to me).

Hi Mike, Mike and Graham,

It doesn't seem to be a scam, at least, not a simple one. These were genuine Direct Debits and the Bank recognises that they have genuinely been cancelled, without authorisation, but are unable to explain how or why. They didn't mention any similar cases. They are hoping to find out more after the Bank Holiday, when other departments reopen.

luv, Rog.
?

On Saturday, 24 August 2019, 19:40:03 BST, Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com> wrote: 


More by way of a reverse scam! Had the bank any other instances of this?

Mike G

On 24 Aug 2019, at 18:47, Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
I think this is some sort of scam as I seem to remember I received an e-mail a while ago saying my DVLA DD had been cancelled and I needed to renew it or something.
Since I don?t do it by DD but simply pay each year (I wonder if they are still going to do official (postal?) reminders) I just deleted it without doing my usual ?show properties - details ? message source? investigation.
?
Mike
?
From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2019 5:25 PM
To: dave.mdv via Tech1 
Subject: [Tech1] Direct Debits
?
Hi All,
?
Not Tech-Ops related, but - Has anyone else had a problem with Direct Debits being cancelled without authorisation.
?
1: A couple of days ago, we received an email from the DVLA saying that the Direct Debit for our car tax has been cancelled, apparently by us. Ring the DVLA to say we hadn't authorised this. Ring the Bank to reinstate it, which they do, but this isn't good enough for the DVLA who say we have to start again with a new Direct Debit.
?
2: The day before yesterday, we receive an email from the local council saying that our Direct Debit for garden waste collection has been cancelled. This time we go to the bank and get it reinstated.
?
3: Yesterday, a email from the TV Licensing people says that the Direct Debit to them has been cancelled (The greatest crime of all!). Back to the Bank to make sure that all three are reinstated. Meet the Bank's IT man who is baffled. He can only suggest a "Glitch in the system".
?
4: Today we receive a letter from the Salvation Army, reporting that our Direct Debit to them has been cancelled. To the Bank again, who now discover that ALL our Direct Debits have been cancelled (something which wasn't evident on their system even yesterday), apart from the three we had already reinstated. So, we spend most of Saturday morning sitting with a Bank Manager, going through all our Direct Debits, reactivating them.
?
We don't do Internet Banking, so a malicious hack seem unlikely - anyway, why would they?
?
I don't suppose anyone has a solution - but I just felt the need to winge at someone - and you lot were handy!
?
luv, Rog.
-- 
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Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Sun Aug 25 05:18:17 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 11:18:17 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Direct Debits
In-Reply-To: <560791968.1499618.1566663921054@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <560791968.1499618.1566663921054.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<560791968.1499618.1566663921054@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4ff30db4-bed7-fe20-5e7e-73510999446c@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 24/08/2019 17:25, ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Not Tech-Ops related, but - Has anyone else had a problem with Direct 
> Debits being cancelled without authorisation.
>
The worst one for me, recently, was HMRC.

I do my VAT using on-line accounting that prompts me to send the return, 
and HMRC take any money by Direct Debit. For the last year or so my main 
income has been a non-VATable company so HMRC have been reimbursing my 
purchases most of the time. Then, one quarter, the timing of payments 
meant I owed them a couple of hundred pounds. I sent the return.... and 
a month later they sent a debt-collecting demand.

I complained officially by letter and then spent days on the phone 
asking how I could be in debt if they could take the money whenever they 
liked - I just got more debt letters.

Eventually it turned out that if a DD hasn't be used for 6 months they 
cancel it. Of course they ~should~ have told me but didn't. In the end I 
had to pay them the money manually, and 3 months after that they took me 
off the naughty step, though without any apology.

Chris Woolf



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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Sun Aug 25 11:08:20 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 17:08:20 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Direct Debits
In-Reply-To: <00f501d55b4e$87bb3f70$9731be50$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
References: <560791968.1499618.1566663921054.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<560791968.1499618.1566663921054@mail.yahoo.com>
	<5762698FCAF94A57A97AE90D537094E1@Gigabyte>
	<C24560D0-4BED-4A63-9B3B-B6ED9B4D53DE@mac.com>
	<36482799.1641763.1566723167629@mail.yahoo.com>
	<5d6259a0.1c69fb81.901b6.1465@mx.google.com>
	<00f501d55b4e$87bb3f70$9731be50$@pgtmedia.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5d62b274.1c69fb81.2031d.913a@mx.google.com>

Ah! That was me confusing DD and SO, as regards setting up. But it is possible for the payer to cancel..
Apologies!
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
Sent: 25 August 2019 15:08
Cc: paul at pgtmedia.co.uk
Subject: RE: [Tech1] Direct Debits

Rog,
DD can never be set up by the payer!
You authorise ?mandate? the company to give them the right to set up the DD to deduct money from? your account following the DD ?rules?.
Paul


From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of patheigham via Tech1
Sent: 25 August 2019 10:49
To: ROGER BUNCE <rogerbunce at btinternet.com>; dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Direct Debits

Hi Rog,
I did get a postal reminder from DVLA, and as I use Internet Banking, was able to pay my dues electronically, not by DD, and duly printed out a receipt.
As far as I?m aware, DD?s can only be set up or cancelled by the payer, the company or merchant cannot cancel from their end. The Guild for which I acted as membership secretary, offered DD for membership fees, and I believe that we were able to adjust the amount when fees increased. Standing Orders were another matter ? it was the devil of a job to get members to adjust those!
With Internet Banking, one can view DD?s in place and delete or set-up as required, and my bank always sends a confirming text to my mobile ? saying if it wasn?t me who ordered it, then contact them immediately.
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1
Sent: 25 August 2019 09:53
To: dave.mdv via Tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Direct Debits

Hi David,

I think the quill pen and Bob Cratchett rule still applies. A DD should be controlled by the recipient. The Bank shouldn't have any say in the matter, unless they've received specific instructions from us (which they haven't), or, I suppose, if there are inadequate funds to pay it (which isn't the case.) - Yes, open on Saturday morning, but with limited staff (they used the phrase 'Skeleton Staff', but they all looked reasonably well fed to me).

Hi Mike, Mike and Graham,

It doesn't seem to be a scam, at least, not a simple one. These were genuine Direct Debits and the Bank recognises that they have genuinely been cancelled, without authorisation, but are unable to explain how or why. They didn't mention any similar cases. They are hoping to find out more after the Bank Holiday, when other departments reopen.

luv, Rog.
?

On Saturday, 24 August 2019, 19:40:03 BST, Mike Giles <mibridge at mac.com> wrote: 


More by way of a reverse scam! Had the bank any other instances of this?

Mike G

On 24 Aug 2019, at 18:47, Mike Jordan via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
I think this is some sort of scam as I seem to remember I received an e-mail a while ago saying my DVLA DD had been cancelled and I needed to renew it or something.
Since I don?t do it by DD but simply pay each year (I wonder if they are still going to do official (postal?) reminders) I just deleted it without doing my usual ?show properties - details ? message source? investigation.
?
Mike
?
From: ROGER BUNCE via Tech1 
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2019 5:25 PM
To: dave.mdv via Tech1 
Subject: [Tech1] Direct Debits
?
Hi All,
?
Not Tech-Ops related, but - Has anyone else had a problem with Direct Debits being cancelled without authorisation.
?
1: A couple of days ago, we received an email from the DVLA saying that the Direct Debit for our car tax has been cancelled, apparently by us. Ring the DVLA to say we hadn't authorised this. Ring the Bank to reinstate it, which they do, but this isn't good enough for the DVLA who say we have to start again with a new Direct Debit.
?
2: The day before yesterday, we receive an email from the local council saying that our Direct Debit for garden waste collection has been cancelled. This time we go to the bank and get it reinstated.
?
3: Yesterday, a email from the TV Licensing people says that the Direct Debit to them has been cancelled (The greatest crime of all!). Back to the Bank to make sure that all three are reinstated. Meet the Bank's IT man who is baffled. He can only suggest a "Glitch in the system".
?
4: Today we receive a letter from the Salvation Army, reporting that our Direct Debit to them has been cancelled. To the Bank again, who now discover that ALL our Direct Debits have been cancelled (something which wasn't evident on their system even yesterday), apart from the three we had already reinstated. So, we spend most of Saturday morning sitting with a Bank Manager, going through all our Direct Debits, reactivating them.
?
We don't do Internet Banking, so a malicious hack seem unlikely - anyway, why would they?
?
I don't suppose anyone has a solution - but I just felt the need to winge at someone - and you lot were handy!
?
luv, Rog.
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



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From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Aug 25 11:23:53 2019
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 17:23:53 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Crown Jewels
Message-ID: <bf9beb50-a9b2-e159-53af-d3e4c99c65ed@btinternet.com>

So, (in keeping with the modern annoying 'Sprechen Englisch'), thanks to 
our 'beloved' politicians removing Test Cricket from the protected list, 
and thus allowing Murdoch's cash cow to outbid the indigenous 
broadcasters, the nation have been deprived of seeing one of the most 
wonderful pieces of our sporting history, a victory over the 'auld 
enemy', Australia. Shame on you MPs. Cheers, Dave. PS. Thank heavens for 
5live, at least we could hear the victory!


From ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com  Sun Aug 25 11:35:06 2019
From: ohbytheway.tv at gmail.com (David Denness)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 17:35:06 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Crown Jewels
In-Reply-To: <bf9beb50-a9b2-e159-53af-d3e4c99c65ed@btinternet.com>
References: <bf9beb50-a9b2-e159-53af-d3e4c99c65ed@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <002901d55b63$0de37cc0$29aa7640$@gmail.com>

Will have to watch the highlights on Chan 5 at 7pm
Sounded like a great match on 5 live
Dave D

-----Original Message-----
From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of dave.mdv via Tech1
Sent: 25 August 2019 17:24
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] The Crown Jewels

So, (in keeping with the modern annoying 'Sprechen Englisch'), thanks to our
'beloved' politicians removing Test Cricket from the protected list, and
thus allowing Murdoch's cash cow to outbid the indigenous broadcasters, the
nation have been deprived of seeing one of the most wonderful pieces of our
sporting history, a victory over the 'auld enemy', Australia. Shame on you
MPs. Cheers, Dave. PS. Thank heavens for 5live, at least we could hear the
victory!

--
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From dave.mdv at btinternet.com  Sun Aug 25 13:34:26 2019
From: dave.mdv at btinternet.com (dave.mdv)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 19:34:26 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] labels
Message-ID: <761e7f1f-d35f-8f9e-ed7d-34376b97836a@btinternet.com>

When you buy a frozen joint from the supermarket the label often says 
'peel here' to see the cooking instructions. Has anyone ever managed to 
peel it? I have just spent half-an-hour trying to do just that! Using 
various label remover sprays and soaking it in hot water I found that 
there were four layers before the required information was visible! 
Chers, Dave


From mibridge at mac.com  Sun Aug 25 17:15:13 2019
From: mibridge at mac.com (Mike Giles)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 23:15:13 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] labels
In-Reply-To: <761e7f1f-d35f-8f9e-ed7d-34376b97836a@btinternet.com>
References: <761e7f1f-d35f-8f9e-ed7d-34376b97836a@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <C092678C-B2BC-49D7-8F0B-53DF6D50BAF6@mac.com>

Whilst I can offer no advice on getting to the bottom of modern labels, Dave, you remind me that in the days of politically incorrect jam and marmalade, the jars used to be vacuum sealed with a fairly thin metal lid, which was labelled ?Pierce here and push off.? My father was a teacher in a school under a headmaster named Pearce, who would always answer the phone ?Pearce here!? Many were tempted to complete the phrase, but none was brave enough to risk the consequences!

Mike G

> On 25 Aug 2019, at 19:34, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> When you buy a frozen joint from the supermarket the label often says 'peel here' to see the cooking instructions. Has anyone ever managed to peel it? I have just spent half-an-hour trying to do just that! Using various label remover sprays and soaking it in hot water I found that there were four layers before the required information was visible! Chers, Dave
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From geoffletch at gmail.com  Sun Aug 25 17:30:45 2019
From: geoffletch at gmail.com (Geoff Fletcher)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2019 23:30:45 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Crown Jewels
In-Reply-To: <bf9beb50-a9b2-e159-53af-d3e4c99c65ed@btinternet.com>
References: <bf9beb50-a9b2-e159-53af-d3e4c99c65ed@btinternet.com>
Message-ID: <CAB99AB9QB5cbDWGWhKWFFg=rmrSKEmn=jKtT5aP12zkxu=UTvA@mail.gmail.com>

Highlights on Channel 5 1900 to 2000 every test day.
G

On Sun, 25 Aug 2019 at 17:24, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
wrote:

> So, (in keeping with the modern annoying 'Sprechen Englisch'), thanks to
> our 'beloved' politicians removing Test Cricket from the protected list,
> and thus allowing Murdoch's cash cow to outbid the indigenous
> broadcasters, the nation have been deprived of seeing one of the most
> wonderful pieces of our sporting history, a victory over the 'auld
> enemy', Australia. Shame on you MPs. Cheers, Dave. PS. Thank heavens for
> 5live, at least we could hear the victory!
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Mon Aug 26 05:33:02 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 11:33:02 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] The Crown Jewels
In-Reply-To: <CAB99AB9QB5cbDWGWhKWFFg=rmrSKEmn=jKtT5aP12zkxu=UTvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bf9beb50-a9b2-e159-53af-d3e4c99c65ed@btinternet.com>
	<CAB99AB9QB5cbDWGWhKWFFg=rmrSKEmn=jKtT5aP12zkxu=UTvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ac9ad526-5bcc-c5d8-d631-44a238c814fe@gmail.com>

It's not like the endless gentle afternoons in Network 2, followed by 
sweat panic worry getting to the news for the deaf.? Actually, that was 
the Natwest trophy on Sundays, when News would prepare the short version 
and the long version, but only had one 2" machine to play out. You had 
to make a decision at least twenty minutes before TX time so that they 
could line up, but often as not the match would be in it's final few 
overs and you just had to pick and hope.

And the machine they always used was crap, and took about nine of the 
ten seconds run up to lock up. The screen would go black still hopping 
at -3 so you just had to say cut and hope. Then you had 20 minutes or so 
to field phone calls from the Pres Editor about why you'd picked the 
wrong version and how BBC2 was going to be running late/early for the 
rest of the evening.

B



On 25/08/2019 23:30, Geoff Fletcher via Tech1 wrote:
> Highlights on Channel 5 1900 to 2000 every test day.
> G
>
> On Sun, 25 Aug 2019 at 17:24, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
> <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>     So, (in keeping with the modern annoying 'Sprechen Englisch'),
>     thanks to
>     our 'beloved' politicians removing Test Cricket from the protected
>     list,
>     and thus allowing Murdoch's cash cow to outbid the indigenous
>     broadcasters, the nation have been deprived of seeing one of the most
>     wonderful pieces of our sporting history, a victory over the 'auld
>     enemy', Australia. Shame on you MPs. Cheers, Dave. PS. Thank
>     heavens for
>     5live, at least we could hear the victory!
>
>     -- 
>     Tech1 mailing list
>     Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>     http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>
>

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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Aug 26 05:59:10 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 11:59:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] labels
In-Reply-To: <C092678C-B2BC-49D7-8F0B-53DF6D50BAF6@mac.com>
References: <761e7f1f-d35f-8f9e-ed7d-34376b97836a@btinternet.com>
	<C092678C-B2BC-49D7-8F0B-53DF6D50BAF6@mac.com>
Message-ID: <5d63bb7d.1c69fb81.aee9c.9ba2@mx.google.com>

Yes, labels can be very frustrating. A lady friend with whom I frequently share a Sunday lunch with a Dine-In deal from M & S or Waitrose ? good value ? is peeved at the fact that the cooking instructions are on the bottom of the sealed pack!
Some foods in trays have sealed film cover, and while M & S and Waitrose peel off neatly, Co-Op is useless and tears off in strips.
Do you remember when Milk in Tetrapak was introduced and it was impossible to neatly open the top? One TV programme brought in the German inventor to demonstrate how ?easy? it was. It went everywhere!
Wichser!
Pat


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Mike Giles via Tech1
Sent: 25 August 2019 23:15
Subject: Re: [Tech1] labels

Whilst I can offer no advice on getting to the bottom of modern labels, Dave, you remind me that in the days of politically incorrect jam and marmalade, the jars used to be vacuum sealed with a fairly thin metal lid, which was labelled ?Pierce here and push off.? My father was a teacher in a school under a headmaster named Pearce, who would always answer the phone ?Pearce here!? Many were tempted to complete the phrase, but none was brave enough to risk the consequences!

Mike G

> On 25 Aug 2019, at 19:34, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> When you buy a frozen joint from the supermarket the label often says 'peel here' to see the cooking instructions. Has anyone ever managed to peel it? I have just spent half-an-hour trying to do just that! Using various label remover sprays and soaking it in hot water I found that there were four layers before the required information was visible! Chers, Dave
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


-- 
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From waresound at msn.com  Mon Aug 26 07:31:07 2019
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 12:31:07 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] labels
In-Reply-To: <5d63bb7d.1c69fb81.aee9c.9ba2@mx.google.com>
References: <761e7f1f-d35f-8f9e-ed7d-34376b97836a@btinternet.com>
	<C092678C-B2BC-49D7-8F0B-53DF6D50BAF6@mac.com>
	<5d63bb7d.1c69fb81.aee9c.9ba2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB02710115EFE51E4B19792081A7A10@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

It?s marketing. Only what looks good and sells the product goes on the front. Everything else is of secondary importance and goes in small  print on the back. Simples.
One solution you might consider is buying fresh, not frozen. That?s unless you prefer your meat bulked out with water prior to freezing so that it looks bigger and weighs heavier!
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad

On 26 Aug 2019, at 11:59, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

Yes, labels can be very frustrating. A lady friend with whom I frequently share a Sunday lunch with a Dine-In deal from M & S or Waitrose ? good value ? is peeved at the fact that the cooking instructions are on the bottom of the sealed pack!
Some foods in trays have sealed film cover, and while M & S and Waitrose peel off neatly, Co-Op is useless and tears off in strips.
Do you remember when Milk in Tetrapak was introduced and it was impossible to neatly open the top? One TV programme brought in the German inventor to demonstrate how ?easy? it was. It went everywhere!
Wichser!
Pat


Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Mike Giles via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 25 August 2019 23:15
Subject: Re: [Tech1] labels

Whilst I can offer no advice on getting to the bottom of modern labels, Dave, you remind me that in the days of politically incorrect jam and marmalade, the jars used to be vacuum sealed with a fairly thin metal lid, which was labelled ?Pierce here and push off.? My father was a teacher in a school under a headmaster named Pearce, who would always answer the phone ?Pearce here!? Many were tempted to complete the phrase, but none was brave enough to risk the consequences!

Mike G

> On 25 Aug 2019, at 19:34, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> When you buy a frozen joint from the supermarket the label often says 'peel here' to see the cooking instructions. Has anyone ever managed to peel it? I have just spent half-an-hour trying to do just that! Using various label remover sprays and soaking it in hot water I found that there were four layers before the required information was visible! Chers, Dave
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


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From waresound at msn.com  Mon Aug 26 09:38:09 2019
From: waresound at msn.com (Nick Ware)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 14:38:09 +0000
Subject: [Tech1] labels
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB02710115EFE51E4B19792081A7A10@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <761e7f1f-d35f-8f9e-ed7d-34376b97836a@btinternet.com>
	<C092678C-B2BC-49D7-8F0B-53DF6D50BAF6@mac.com>
	<5d63bb7d.1c69fb81.aee9c.9ba2@mx.google.com>,
	<VI1P192MB02710115EFE51E4B19792081A7A10@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <VI1P192MB0271C6187AAE1403644AC50BA7A10@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

We are lucky to have an M&S food store here in Cranleigh which we use a lot. Their dinner for two specials are way better than any competition I?ve found. I?d use the local butcher shop too, but I?m put off by the gross smell of fish at the fishmongers next door.
Fab Thursday farmers? market too for fresh fruit and veg.
Cheers,
N.

Sent from my iPad

On 26 Aug 2019, at 13:31, Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com<mailto:waresound at msn.com>> wrote:

It?s marketing. Only what looks good and sells the product goes on the front. Everything else is of secondary importance and goes in small  print on the back. Simples.
One solution you might consider is buying fresh, not frozen. That?s unless you prefer your meat bulked out with water prior to freezing so that it looks bigger and weighs heavier!
Cheers,
Nick.

Sent from my iPad

On 26 Aug 2019, at 11:59, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:

Yes, labels can be very frustrating. A lady friend with whom I frequently share a Sunday lunch with a Dine-In deal from M & S or Waitrose ? good value ? is peeved at the fact that the cooking instructions are on the bottom of the sealed pack!
Some foods in trays have sealed film cover, and while M & S and Waitrose peel off neatly, Co-Op is useless and tears off in strips.
Do you remember when Milk in Tetrapak was introduced and it was impossible to neatly open the top? One TV programme brought in the German inventor to demonstrate how ?easy? it was. It went everywhere!
Wichser!
Pat


Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Mike Giles via Tech1<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
Sent: 25 August 2019 23:15
Subject: Re: [Tech1] labels

Whilst I can offer no advice on getting to the bottom of modern labels, Dave, you remind me that in the days of politically incorrect jam and marmalade, the jars used to be vacuum sealed with a fairly thin metal lid, which was labelled ?Pierce here and push off.? My father was a teacher in a school under a headmaster named Pearce, who would always answer the phone ?Pearce here!? Many were tempted to complete the phrase, but none was brave enough to risk the consequences!

Mike G

> On 25 Aug 2019, at 19:34, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk<mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> When you buy a frozen joint from the supermarket the label often says 'peel here' to see the cooking instructions. Has anyone ever managed to peel it? I have just spent half-an-hour trying to do just that! Using various label remover sprays and soaking it in hot water I found that there were four layers before the required information was visible! Chers, Dave
>
> --
> Tech1 mailing list
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> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk


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From pat.heigham at amps.net  Mon Aug 26 10:08:39 2019
From: pat.heigham at amps.net (patheigham)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 16:08:39 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] labels
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271C6187AAE1403644AC50BA7A10@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <761e7f1f-d35f-8f9e-ed7d-34376b97836a@btinternet.com>
	<C092678C-B2BC-49D7-8F0B-53DF6D50BAF6@mac.com>
	<5d63bb7d.1c69fb81.aee9c.9ba2@mx.google.com>,
	<VI1P192MB02710115EFE51E4B19792081A7A10@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<VI1P192MB0271C6187AAE1403644AC50BA7A10@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <5d63f5f7.1c69fb81.6a591.83a5@mx.google.com>

Glad you patronise M & S for the Meal Deals, Nick.
Bookham here has only one major grocery outlet (Co-Op), (the other one closed down).
but does offer a wet fish shop, and a super greengrocer, who gets the produce from Nine Elms at 4 in the morning.
Two good butchers also.
However, I prefer to purchase ready meals ? less time required to traipse around shops and prepare and cook.
But I?m only a single bloke!
Although I was pretty good at Pork Loin with Apricots, and could do a Baked Alaska!
(Don?t queue at my door ? I don?t have a dining room!)
Pat

Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Nick Ware via Tech1
Sent: 26 August 2019 15:38
To: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] labels

We are lucky to have an M&S food store here in Cranleigh which we use a lot. Their dinner for two specials are way better than any competition I?ve found. I?d use the local butcher shop too, but I?m put off by the gross smell of fish at the fishmongers next door. 
Fab Thursday farmers? market too for fresh fruit and veg.
Cheers,
N.
Sent from my iPad

On 26 Aug 2019, at 13:31, Nick Ware <waresound at msn.com> wrote:
It?s marketing. Only what looks good and sells the product goes on the front. Everything else is of secondary importance and goes in small ?print on the back. Simples. 
One solution you might consider is buying fresh, not frozen. That?s unless you prefer your meat bulked out with water prior to freezing so that it looks bigger and weighs heavier!
Cheers,
Nick.
Sent from my iPad

On 26 Aug 2019, at 11:59, patheigham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
Yes, labels can be very frustrating. A lady friend with whom I frequently share a Sunday lunch with a Dine-In deal from M & S or Waitrose ? good value ? is peeved at the fact that the cooking instructions are on the bottom of the sealed pack!
Some foods in trays have sealed film cover, and while M & S and Waitrose peel off neatly, Co-Op is useless and tears off in strips.
Do you remember when Milk in Tetrapak was introduced and it was impossible to neatly open the top? One TV programme brought in the German inventor to demonstrate how ?easy? it was. It went everywhere!
Wichser!
Pat
?
?
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
?
From: Mike Giles via Tech1
Sent: 25 August 2019 23:15
Subject: Re: [Tech1] labels
?
Whilst I can offer no advice on getting to the bottom of modern labels, Dave, you remind me that in the days of politically incorrect jam and marmalade, the jars used to be vacuum sealed with a fairly thin metal lid, which was labelled ?Pierce here and push off.? My father was a teacher in a school under a headmaster named Pearce, who would always answer the phone ?Pearce here!? Many were tempted to complete the phrase, but none was brave enough to risk the consequences!
?
Mike G
?
> On 25 Aug 2019, at 19:34, dave.mdv via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> When you buy a frozen joint from the supermarket the label often says 'peel here' to see the cooking instructions. Has anyone ever managed to peel it? I have just spent half-an-hour trying to do just that! Using various label remover sprays and soaking it in hot water I found that there were four layers before the required information was visible! Chers, Dave
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
?
?
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From chris at chriswoolf.co.uk  Mon Aug 26 10:28:41 2019
From: chris at chriswoolf.co.uk (Chris Woolf)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 16:28:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] labels
In-Reply-To: <VI1P192MB0271C6187AAE1403644AC50BA7A10@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <761e7f1f-d35f-8f9e-ed7d-34376b97836a@btinternet.com>
	<C092678C-B2BC-49D7-8F0B-53DF6D50BAF6@mac.com>
	<5d63bb7d.1c69fb81.aee9c.9ba2@mx.google.com>
	<VI1P192MB02710115EFE51E4B19792081A7A10@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
	<VI1P192MB0271C6187AAE1403644AC50BA7A10@VI1P192MB0271.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <6b8a71ff-6e1c-2b65-b8f7-01b547964cdd@chriswoolf.co.uk>


On 26/08/2019 15:38, Nick Ware via Tech1 wrote:
> ... but I?m put off by the gross smell of fish at the fishmongers next 
> door.


That's a shame. It often surprises people when you tell them that a good 
fish shop shouldn't smell of fish at all. I've just come back from a 
famous one in Looe and because everything is absolutely fresh and laid 
in a chill cabinet, but ~not~ on ice (which soon gathers a fishy stink 
because it can't be cleaned), it has virtually no scent of anything 
except a vague hint of "sea".

It is a dead cert that if you can smell a fish shop, or a fish counter 
in a supermarket, you don't want to be buying anything from them.

Chris Woolf


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From mikej at bmanor.co.uk  Mon Aug 26 15:43:11 2019
From: mikej at bmanor.co.uk (Mike Jordan)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 21:43:11 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Eastenders tonight - Monday 26th August
Message-ID: <CACCE5477904459C91951D624A183597@Gigabyte>

Call me sad but we do watch this and even though I only worked on a couple of shows there whilst in OBs, I recognise quite a few of the bits of the set.
However this evening there seemed to be a whole lot more places and shots appearing and something was different about the outside scenes picture quality.
Google doesn?t seem to show any changes with the new set promised.
New cameras?
Comments?

Mike
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From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Fri Aug 30 03:52:18 2019
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (vernon.dyer)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 09:52:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] [gtc] Vinten
Message-ID: <movyletkoubhtu1wwctewt1i.1567155138900@email.android.com>

When we visited Vintens some years ago? (fascinating!) I got the impression that they were just letting him use space in their workshop.?Best wishes? ..... Vern?Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.-------- Original message --------From: Steve Ryder <steve.ryder at stryder.tv> Date: 29/08/2019  10:16  (GMT+00:00) To: forum at gtc.groups.io Subject: Re: [gtc] Vinten Well to be fair they did temporarily represent Wing Commander Wallace of James Bond 007 Little Nelly fame but I am not sure they ever sold any. I think they were aiming at the military market.?Kind regards,?Steve Ryder+44 (0)7831 171556steve.ryder at stryder.tvwww.stryder.tv. ?On 29 Aug 2019, at 7:59 am, Perry Mitchell <perry.mitchell at gmail.com> wrote:Many diverse companies! I remember one time my Vinten pals telling me that they even made autogiros!Perry MitchellEngineerFarnhamMichael Sanders wrote:I?m sure in the dim distant past I remember someone talking about the relationship between Vinten Broadcast and W Vinten the camera maker.So can any say this entry on Wikipedia is right.?https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VintenI?m sure I remember reading here (maybe Bill himself?) being cagey about the relationship.



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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Fri Aug 30 04:07:49 2019
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 10:07:49 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] [gtc] Vinten
In-Reply-To: <movyletkoubhtu1wwctewt1i.1567155138900@email.android.com>
References: <movyletkoubhtu1wwctewt1i.1567155138900@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <1661F351-E706-414D-9B6B-9CEA36A7179C@icloud.com>

The Vinten Venom, attached the cover of a brochure I picked up at one of the trade shows.

Anyone more interested, I can scan the whole brochure as a pdf file, just let me know.

? 
Graeme Wall



> On 30 Aug 2019, at 09:52, vernon.dyer via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> When we visited Vintens some years ago  (fascinating!) I got the impression that they were just letting him use space in their workshop. 
> Best wishes  ..... Vern 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Steve Ryder <steve.ryder at stryder.tv>
> Date: 29/08/2019 10:16 (GMT+00:00)
> To: forum at gtc.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [gtc] Vinten
> 
> Well to be fair they did temporarily represent Wing Commander Wallace of James Bond 007 Little Nelly fame but I am not sure they ever sold any. I think they were aiming at the military market. 
> 
> Kind regards, 
> 
> Steve Ryder
> 
> +44 (0)7831 171556
> steve.ryder at stryder.tv
> www.stryder.tv
> 
> .  
> 
> On 29 Aug 2019, at 7:59 am, Perry Mitchell <perry.mitchell at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Many diverse companies! I remember one time my Vinten pals telling me that they even made autogiros!
>> Perry Mitchell
>> Engineer
>> Farnham
>> 
>> Michael Sanders wrote:
>> I?m sure in the dim distant past I remember someone talking about the relationship between Vinten Broadcast and W Vinten the camera maker.
>> 
>> So can any say this entry on Wikipedia is right. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinten
>> 
>> I?m sure I remember reading here (maybe Bill himself?) being cagey about the relationship.
>> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk

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From dudley.darby at gmail.com  Fri Aug 30 06:05:07 2019
From: dudley.darby at gmail.com (Dudley Darby)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 12:05:07 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] FW:  [gtc] Vinten
Message-ID: <320D489A769748B79B531A9338498B8F@CustomPC>

  _____  

From: Dudley Darby [mailto:Dudley.Darby at gmail.com] 
Sent: 30 August 2019 12:01
To: 'vernon.dyer'
Subject: RE: [Tech1] [gtc] Vinten

 

Hi Vern

 

Ken Wallis's autogyro was a very simple single-seater. He approached Vintens
to develop it into a commercial surveillance machine. Initially it was
supposed to be for police use, but the MoD showed interest. As usual with
committee thought up uses, the MoD kept changing their minds, and the
specification, to the extent of two seaters and eventually a
radio-controlled unmanned autogyro. At that point the project was considered
unviable and wound up. There had been a considerable amount of interest in
the demonstrations, but no firm orders. Only seven were made, one of those
being an unmanned prototype.

 

Regards

 

Dudley

 

Dudley C. Darby

Tel: +44 1795 536723

Mobile: +44 780 372 4696

Email:  <mailto:Dudley.Darby at gmail.com> Dudley.Darby at gmail.com

 

P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

  _____  

From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of vernon.dyer
via Tech1
Sent: 30 August 2019 09:52
To: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] [gtc] Vinten

 

 

When we visited Vintens some years ago  (fascinating!) I got the impression
that they were just letting him use space in their workshop. 

Best wishes  ..... Vern 

 

 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: Steve Ryder <steve.ryder at stryder.tv> 

Date: 29/08/2019 10:16 (GMT+00:00) 

To: forum at gtc.groups.io 

Subject: Re: [gtc] Vinten 

 

Well to be fair they did temporarily represent Wing Commander Wallace of
James Bond 007 Little Nelly fame but I am not sure they ever sold any. I
think they were aiming at the military market. 

Kind regards, 

 

Steve Ryder

 

+44 (0)7831 171556

steve.ryder at stryder.tv

www.stryder.tv

 

.  


On 29 Aug 2019, at 7:59 am, Perry Mitchell <perry.mitchell at gmail.com> wrote:

Many diverse companies! I remember one time my Vinten pals telling me that
they even made autogiros!

Perry Mitchell

Engineer

Farnham

 

Michael Sanders wrote:

I'm sure in the dim distant past I remember someone talking about the
relationship between Vinten Broadcast and W Vinten the camera maker.

 

So can any say this entry on Wikipedia is right.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinten

 

I'm sure I remember reading here (maybe Bill himself?) being cagey about the
relationship.



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From vernon.dyer at btinternet.com  Fri Aug 30 09:44:27 2019
From: vernon.dyer at btinternet.com (Vernon Dyer)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 15:44:27 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] FW:  [gtc] Vinten
In-Reply-To: <320D489A769748B79B531A9338498B8F@CustomPC>
References: <320D489A769748B79B531A9338498B8F@CustomPC>
Message-ID: <5D5ACED701E3B9D3@re-prd-rgout-002.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net>
	(added by postmaster@btinternet.com)


Thanks for that Dudley; how interesting ? so Vintens? involvement was much greater than I realised.  The unmanned prototype is the forerunner of today?s drones, of course.

Best wishes  .....  Vern


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Dudley Darby via Tech1
Sent: 30 August 2019 12:05
To: Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: [Tech1] FW: [gtc] Vinten


From: Dudley Darby [mailto:Dudley.Darby at gmail.com] 
Sent: 30 August 2019 12:01
To: 'vernon.dyer'
Subject: RE: [Tech1] [gtc] Vinten

Hi Vern

Ken Wallis?s autogyro was a very simple single-seater. He approached Vintens to develop it into a commercial surveillance machine. Initially it was supposed to be for police use, but the MoD showed interest. As usual with committee thought up uses, the MoD kept changing their minds, and the specification, to the extent of two seaters and eventually a radio-controlled unmanned autogyro. At that point the project was considered unviable and wound up. There had been a considerable amount of interest in the demonstrations, but no firm orders. Only seven were made, one of those being an unmanned prototype.

Regards

Dudley

Dudley C. Darby
Tel: +44 1795 536723
Mobile: +44 780 372 4696
Email: Dudley.Darby at gmail.com
?
??Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail

From: Tech1 [mailto:tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk] On Behalf Of vernon.dyer via Tech1
Sent: 30 August 2019 09:52
To: tech1
Subject: Re: [Tech1] [gtc] Vinten


When we visited Vintens some years ago? (fascinating!) I got the impression that they were just letting him use space in their workshop.?
Best wishes? ..... Vern?


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Steve Ryder <steve.ryder at stryder.tv> 
Date: 29/08/2019 10:16 (GMT+00:00) 
To: forum at gtc.groups.io 
Subject: Re: [gtc] Vinten 

Well to be fair they did temporarily represent Wing Commander Wallace of James Bond 007 Little Nelly fame but I am not sure they ever sold any. I think they were aiming at the military market.?
Kind regards,?

Steve Ryder

+44 (0)7831 171556
steve.ryder at stryder.tv
www.stryder.tv

. ?

On 29 Aug 2019, at 7:59 am, Perry Mitchell <perry.mitchell at gmail.com> wrote:
Many diverse companies! I remember one time my Vinten pals telling me that they even made autogiros!
Perry Mitchell
Engineer
Farnham

Michael Sanders wrote:
I?m sure in the dim distant past I remember someone talking about the relationship between Vinten Broadcast and W Vinten the camera maker.

So can any say this entry on Wikipedia is right.?https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinten

I?m sure I remember reading here (maybe Bill himself?) being cagey about the relationship.


Virus-free. www.avast.com 

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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 30 16:06:51 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 22:06:51 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dad's Army
Message-ID: <57d0cd3f-ab51-b399-82ba-29c9e56f18cc@gmail.com>

Has anyone watched the new versions on Gold?? I just watched Sunday's - 
very good. The actors are very well cast, and the directing is true to 
Croft style original - no silliness. The lighting was much better - 
sorry to whoever did the original. I missed the 16mm top and tail, but I 
supposed that would have been a simulation too far.

B
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From graeme.wall at icloud.com  Fri Aug 30 16:10:01 2019
From: graeme.wall at icloud.com (Graeme Wall)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 22:10:01 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dad's Army
In-Reply-To: <57d0cd3f-ab51-b399-82ba-29c9e56f18cc@gmail.com>
References: <57d0cd3f-ab51-b399-82ba-29c9e56f18cc@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D8F25F06-7BBE-4DFF-A450-1EFBAD6D0197@icloud.com>


? 
Graeme Wall


> On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:06, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> Has anyone watched the new versions on Gold?  I just watched Sunday's - very good. The actors are very well cast, and the directing is true to Croft style original - no silliness. The lighting was much better - sorry to whoever did the original. 

Howard King?

From barryaustin2000 at icloud.com  Sat Aug 31 05:39:10 2019
From: barryaustin2000 at icloud.com (Barry Austin)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 11:39:10 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dad's Army
In-Reply-To: <D8F25F06-7BBE-4DFF-A450-1EFBAD6D0197@icloud.com>
References: <57d0cd3f-ab51-b399-82ba-29c9e56f18cc@gmail.com>
	<D8F25F06-7BBE-4DFF-A450-1EFBAD6D0197@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <BCA15C11-20C7-4804-9962-E23FC739CDA7@icloud.com>

The lighting on the original series was mainly Howard King, with Duncan Brown as well doing a few episodes, both highly respected, award winning lighting men, alas no longer with us.  I worked on some of episodes and remember Howard and Duncan very well, both lovely, if slightly eccentric, Duncan especially.

They were both Technical Manager 1s, as at the time, there was no such thing as a  Lighting Director in BBC studios, the TM1 did the lighting, but was also responsible for the total technical output of the studio, i.e. he was God !

It is unfair to compare the lighting of 50 years ago to the present day and say it is better now, each is very much of it?s time, it?s like saying the technical output of the camera is better today, of course it is, but what they had at the time is the best there was.

Technical quality is not the be all, watch episodes of Fawlty Towers and cringe at the wobbly sets, boom shadows, flares, dodgy zooms, 16mm film inserts,  and yet they are regarded as classics of the TV sitcom.  It?s appalling and wouldn?t be tolerated today,  but I worked on them and looking back, at the time, it was how we did things.

Without trying to be too pretentious, lighting, like any art form, is going to develop and change over time, just like any branch of the arts.  You wouldn?t say Turner is better than Rembrandt, they are each of their time and both valid.

Of course, not many present day LD?s would be happy today producing pictures similar to those of 50 years ago, so if these new episodes were meant to recreate he feel of the originals, perhaps the production should have employed some of us old timers that are still around  and who worked through, and knew, that era !

Sent from my iPad

> On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:10, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> ? 
> Graeme Wall
> 
> 
>> On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:06, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Has anyone watched the new versions on Gold?  I just watched Sunday's - very good. The actors are very well cast, and the directing is true to Croft style original - no silliness. The lighting was much better - sorry to whoever did the original. 
> 
> Howard King?
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk



From david.jasma at sky.com  Sat Aug 31 05:39:18 2019
From: david.jasma at sky.com (Dave Buckley)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 11:39:18 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dad's Army
In-Reply-To: <57d0cd3f-ab51-b399-82ba-29c9e56f18cc@gmail.com>
References: <57d0cd3f-ab51-b399-82ba-29c9e56f18cc@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000601d55fe8$57cf6a40$076e3ec0$@sky.com>

My wife and I watched all three episodes and enjoyed them.

 

As I had worked for TV Training, I was pleased to see comedy done before a
studio audience with multiple cameras - as shows were done originally and
which was the way TVT trained production staff.

 

I take it that the scripts the production company were working from were
full camera scripts?

 

It was obvious that the opening titles had been remade and more to the
point, the edit of the song during the titles to make it fit, had been
redone and didn't jar at all.

 

According to an item in a paper, the show was shot at Pinewood, and the
audience had to be asked to 'calm down' as they got a bit enthusiastic at
times with catch-lines, although I only noticed this when Jonesy came out
with 'they don't like it up em!'

 

Dave Buckley



---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 31 10:49:19 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 16:49:19 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dad's Army
In-Reply-To: <BCA15C11-20C7-4804-9962-E23FC739CDA7@icloud.com>
References: <57d0cd3f-ab51-b399-82ba-29c9e56f18cc@gmail.com>
	<D8F25F06-7BBE-4DFF-A450-1EFBAD6D0197@icloud.com>
	<BCA15C11-20C7-4804-9962-E23FC739CDA7@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <0d982da5-25be-d630-b064-d6273d0d7309@ntlworld.com>

I must admit that I've always had somewhat of a bee in my bonnet about 
TC lighting, almost from when I joined in 1966.

I've told this story many times, but I'm going to bore you with it again -

In the early sixties I really really wanted to be a BBC TV cameraman.? I 
spent hours reading books from the library - Dewey Decimal 621 maybe?? 
Anyway, the book I read several times was "The Technique of Television 
Production" by Gerald Millerson. Eventually, in late 1966,? I was there, 
dragging cables (for years). One day I worked on Christ Recrucified, in 
TC1 with crew 2. The lighting man was going to be the legendary Gerry 
Millerson, and I looked forward to seeing the great man at work. The set 
was a Cypriot village, burning in the noonday sun. In the opening shot a 
man came in from the hills, nearly dead from exposure. He staggered 
across the town square in a huge wideshot - followed by three large 
sharp shadows.? I was horrified - this man, who I had given years of 
respect to, didn't know that we only have one sun.

And from then on, I wondered why TC lighting people didn't know that 
daylight comes in the window, and all that stuff we learned at Evesham 
about keylights and backlights had its place, but if you wanted anything 
realistic - and I for one did - you had to just stand in your living 
room and look - really look - at how the light works.? After I left 
cameras in 1977 I didn't visit the studios that often, but at some point 
things changed rather rapidly - suddenly all the sitcoms had lots of 
pieces of? cyc cloth hung around the front of the sets. Soft light at 
last!? These days everything has huge reflectors everywhere, though 
that's a whole lot easier if you're only using one camera.

So - though I have great respect for Howard and Duncan, even more for 
Bob Wright, and none at all for G. Millerson - I still wonder why it 
took people so long to notice that daylight comes in the window.

Back at Dad's Army, I found the supersharp front and end a little 
off-putting.? A small amount of effects work would have given a better 
context.

B




On 31/08/2019 11:39, Barry Austin wrote:
> The lighting on the original series was mainly Howard King, with Duncan Brown as well doing a few episodes, both highly respected, award winning lighting men, alas no longer with us.  I worked on some of episodes and remember Howard and Duncan very well, both lovely, if slightly eccentric, Duncan especially.
>
> They were both Technical Manager 1s, as at the time, there was no such thing as a  Lighting Director in BBC studios, the TM1 did the lighting, but was also responsible for the total technical output of the studio, i.e. he was God !
>
> It is unfair to compare the lighting of 50 years ago to the present day and say it is better now, each is very much of it?s time, it?s like saying the technical output of the camera is better today, of course it is, but what they had at the time is the best there was.
>
> Technical quality is not the be all, watch episodes of Fawlty Towers and cringe at the wobbly sets, boom shadows, flares, dodgy zooms, 16mm film inserts,  and yet they are regarded as classics of the TV sitcom.  It?s appalling and wouldn?t be tolerated today,  but I worked on them and looking back, at the time, it was how we did things.
>
> Without trying to be too pretentious, lighting, like any art form, is going to develop and change over time, just like any branch of the arts.  You wouldn?t say Turner is better than Rembrandt, they are each of their time and both valid.
>
> Of course, not many present day LD?s would be happy today producing pictures similar to those of 50 years ago, so if these new episodes were meant to recreate he feel of the originals, perhaps the production should have employed some of us old timers that are still around  and who worked through, and knew, that era !
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:10, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> ?
>> Graeme Wall
>>
>>
>>> On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:06, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Has anyone watched the new versions on Gold?  I just watched Sunday's - very good. The actors are very well cast, and the directing is true to Croft style original - no silliness. The lighting was much better - sorry to whoever did the original.
>> Howard King?
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

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From dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net  Sat Aug 31 11:07:22 2019
From: dnewbitt at fireflyuk.net (David Newbitt)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 17:07:22 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dad's Army
In-Reply-To: <0d982da5-25be-d630-b064-d6273d0d7309@ntlworld.com>
References: <57d0cd3f-ab51-b399-82ba-29c9e56f18cc@gmail.com><D8F25F06-7BBE-4DFF-A450-1EFBAD6D0197@icloud.com><BCA15C11-20C7-4804-9962-E23FC739CDA7@icloud.com>
	<0d982da5-25be-d630-b064-d6273d0d7309@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <39C6F142A8C44A9FB31494213751D0DC@DESKTOP6GGCRV1>

Probably shouldn?t say this but in my time Gerry Millerson was a byword for all talk and no performance.

Dave Newbitt

From: Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2019 4:49 PM
Cc: Bernard Newnham ; tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk 
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Dad's Army

I must admit that I've always had somewhat of a bee in my bonnet about TC lighting, almost from when I joined in 1966.

I've told this story many times, but I'm going to bore you with it again - 

In the early sixties I really really wanted to be a BBC TV cameraman.  I spent hours reading books from the library - Dewey Decimal 621 maybe?  Anyway, the book I read several times was "The Technique of Television Production" by Gerald Millerson.  Eventually, in late 1966,  I was there, dragging cables (for years). One day I worked on Christ Recrucified, in TC1 with crew 2. The lighting man was going to be the legendary Gerry Millerson, and I looked forward to seeing the great man at work. The set was a Cypriot village, burning in the noonday sun. In the opening shot a man came in from the hills, nearly dead from exposure. He staggered across the town square in a huge wideshot - followed by three large sharp shadows.  I was horrified - this man, who I had given years of respect to, didn't know that we only have one sun.

And from then on, I wondered why TC lighting people didn't know that daylight comes in the window, and all that stuff we learned at Evesham about keylights and backlights had its place, but if you wanted anything realistic - and I for one did - you had to just stand in your living room and look - really look - at how the light works.  After I left cameras in 1977 I didn't visit the studios that often, but at some point things changed rather rapidly - suddenly all the sitcoms had lots of pieces of  cyc cloth hung around the front of the sets. Soft light at last!  These days everything has huge reflectors everywhere, though that's a whole lot easier if you're only using one camera.

So - though I have great respect for Howard and Duncan, even more for Bob Wright, and none at all for G. Millerson - I still wonder why it took people so long to notice that daylight comes in the window.

Back at Dad's Army, I found the supersharp front and end a little off-putting.  A small amount of effects work would have given a better context.

B

  



On 31/08/2019 11:39, Barry Austin wrote:

The lighting on the original series was mainly Howard King, with Duncan Brown as well doing a few episodes, both highly respected, award winning lighting men, alas no longer with us.  I worked on some of episodes and remember Howard and Duncan very well, both lovely, if slightly eccentric, Duncan especially.

They were both Technical Manager 1s, as at the time, there was no such thing as a  Lighting Director in BBC studios, the TM1 did the lighting, but was also responsible for the total technical output of the studio, i.e. he was God !

It is unfair to compare the lighting of 50 years ago to the present day and say it is better now, each is very much of it?s time, it?s like saying the technical output of the camera is better today, of course it is, but what they had at the time is the best there was.

Technical quality is not the be all, watch episodes of Fawlty Towers and cringe at the wobbly sets, boom shadows, flares, dodgy zooms, 16mm film inserts,  and yet they are regarded as classics of the TV sitcom.  It?s appalling and wouldn?t be tolerated today,  but I worked on them and looking back, at the time, it was how we did things.

Without trying to be too pretentious, lighting, like any art form, is going to develop and change over time, just like any branch of the arts.  You wouldn?t say Turner is better than Rembrandt, they are each of their time and both valid.

Of course, not many present day LD?s would be happy today producing pictures similar to those of 50 years ago, so if these new episodes were meant to recreate he feel of the originals, perhaps the production should have employed some of us old timers that are still around  and who worked through, and knew, that era !

Sent from my iPad

On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:10, Graeme Wall via Tech1 mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk wrote:


? 
Graeme Wall


On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:06, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk wrote:

Has anyone watched the new versions on Gold?  I just watched Sunday's - very good. The actors are very well cast, and the directing is true to Croft style original - no silliness. The lighting was much better - sorry to whoever did the original. 
Howard King?
-- 
Tech1 mailing list
Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 31 11:55:40 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 17:55:40 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] A propos of nothing
Message-ID: <32372589-b0c8-c20d-c7b2-33a4a2fa0b10@gmail.com>

I wish I'd made this - make sure your subwoofer is working and wind it 
up to 11.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh-FKchjaPE

I used to say to students that they could make something like this -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlEuo9aR7Qo

...and indeed they could have done, but they never did.

B
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From barryaustin2000 at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Aug 31 12:09:00 2019
From: barryaustin2000 at yahoo.co.uk (barryaustin2000)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 18:09:00 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dad's Army
In-Reply-To: <0d982da5-25be-d630-b064-d6273d0d7309@ntlworld.com>
References: <57d0cd3f-ab51-b399-82ba-29c9e56f18cc@gmail.com>
	<D8F25F06-7BBE-4DFF-A450-1EFBAD6D0197@icloud.com>
	<BCA15C11-20C7-4804-9962-E23FC739CDA7@icloud.com>
	<0d982da5-25be-d630-b064-d6273d0d7309@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <89F55798-B80F-4A45-BAB9-78733FC8D091@yahoo.co.uk>

I suppose that?s been the big change in lighting over the years, the change from ?classic? lighting to ?natural?  lighting. 

I remember Henry Barber ( what a smashing man ) lighting some long forgotten sitcom, it had the usual 3 sided sets with the open side towards the audience, this particular set was a travel agent shop, the missing fourth wall being the shop window to the street.  Henry put up a long strip of cyc cloth above the cameras and bounced a load of light off it to simulate daylight through the fourth wall window, to my knowledge the first time it was tried on a sitcom.  To those of us indoctrinated in classic TV lighting, this looked wrong, light coming from downstage instead of three quarter back lights as we?d been taught, whatever next, but I have to admit, it looked right in a realistic sense.

I suppose we were following the film industry, in films in the 1940?s each close up of the leading lady would have a classic, slightly upstage of her eyeline, key light no matter what situation she was in, just watch Casablanca and look at the lighting on Ingrid Bergman, it wasn?t ?real?, but boy did she look good.  I suppose that all changed with Cimena  Verite and the new wave , now realism is everything, people have got so good at it it?s hard to tell if a shot is lit at all.
Whether the close up of the leading lady is better or worse than in days of yore is in the eye of the beholder. 

Quite agree with you on the relative merits of Bob Wright and Gerry Millerson, in their day Bob was simply the best both as a lighting man and as a person, Gerry wasn?t


Sent from my iPhone

> On 31 Aug 2019, at 16:49, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I must admit that I've always had somewhat of a bee in my bonnet about TC lighting, almost from when I joined in 1966.
> 
> I've told this story many times, but I'm going to bore you with it again - 
> 
> In the early sixties I really really wanted to be a BBC TV cameraman.  I spent hours reading books from the library - Dewey Decimal 621 maybe?  Anyway, the book I read several times was "The Technique of Television Production" by Gerald Millerson.  Eventually, in late 1966,  I was there, dragging cables (for years). One day I worked on Christ Recrucified, in TC1 with crew 2. The lighting man was going to be the legendary Gerry Millerson, and I looked forward to seeing the great man at work. The set was a Cypriot village, burning in the noonday sun. In the opening shot a man came in from the hills, nearly dead from exposure. He staggered across the town square in a huge wideshot - followed by three large sharp shadows.  I was horrified - this man, who I had given years of respect to, didn't know that we only have one sun.
> 
> And from then on, I wondered why TC lighting people didn't know that daylight comes in the window, and all that stuff we learned at Evesham about keylights and backlights had its place, but if you wanted anything realistic - and I for one did - you had to just stand in your living room and look - really look - at how the light works.  After I left cameras in 1977 I didn't visit the studios that often, but at some point things changed rather rapidly - suddenly all the sitcoms had lots of pieces of  cyc cloth hung around the front of the sets. Soft light at last!  These days everything has huge reflectors everywhere, though that's a whole lot easier if you're only using one camera.
> 
> So - though I have great respect for Howard and Duncan, even more for Bob Wright, and none at all for G. Millerson - I still wonder why it took people so long to notice that daylight comes in the window.
> 
> Back at Dad's Army, I found the supersharp front and end a little off-putting.  A small amount of effects work would have given a better context.
> 
> B
> 
>   
> 
> 
>> On 31/08/2019 11:39, Barry Austin wrote:
>> The lighting on the original series was mainly Howard King, with Duncan Brown as well doing a few episodes, both highly respected, award winning lighting men, alas no longer with us.  I worked on some of episodes and remember Howard and Duncan very well, both lovely, if slightly eccentric, Duncan especially.
>> 
>> They were both Technical Manager 1s, as at the time, there was no such thing as a  Lighting Director in BBC studios, the TM1 did the lighting, but was also responsible for the total technical output of the studio, i.e. he was God !
>> 
>> It is unfair to compare the lighting of 50 years ago to the present day and say it is better now, each is very much of it?s time, it?s like saying the technical output of the camera is better today, of course it is, but what they had at the time is the best there was.
>> 
>> Technical quality is not the be all, watch episodes of Fawlty Towers and cringe at the wobbly sets, boom shadows, flares, dodgy zooms, 16mm film inserts,  and yet they are regarded as classics of the TV sitcom.  It?s appalling and wouldn?t be tolerated today,  but I worked on them and looking back, at the time, it was how we did things.
>> 
>> Without trying to be too pretentious, lighting, like any art form, is going to develop and change over time, just like any branch of the arts.  You wouldn?t say Turner is better than Rembrandt, they are each of their time and both valid.
>> 
>> Of course, not many present day LD?s would be happy today producing pictures similar to those of 50 years ago, so if these new episodes were meant to recreate he feel of the originals, perhaps the production should have employed some of us old timers that are still around  and who worked through, and knew, that era !
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:10, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ? 
>>>> Graeme Wall
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:06, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Has anyone watched the new versions on Gold?  I just watched Sunday's - very good. The actors are very well cast, and the directing is true to Croft style original - no silliness. The lighting was much better - sorry to whoever did the original. 
>>> Howard King?
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
> 
> -- 
> Tech1 mailing list
> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk  Sat Aug 31 15:53:14 2019
From: peter.fox at zero51.force9.co.uk (Peter Fox)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 21:53:14 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dad's Army
In-Reply-To: <89F55798-B80F-4A45-BAB9-78733FC8D091@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <57d0cd3f-ab51-b399-82ba-29c9e56f18cc@gmail.com>
	<D8F25F06-7BBE-4DFF-A450-1EFBAD6D0197@icloud.com>
	<BCA15C11-20C7-4804-9962-E23FC739CDA7@icloud.com>
	<0d982da5-25be-d630-b064-d6273d0d7309@ntlworld.com>
	<89F55798-B80F-4A45-BAB9-78733FC8D091@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <DF3ABECF-687C-4064-B1FE-EEF0529FDAC9@zero51.force9.co.uk>

A BBC Ealing film drama that stood out for natural lighting was Days of Hope  starring Paul Copley and lit by Tony Pierce Roberts and that was in 1975. It really was quite a break through in BBC TV lighting and it soon fed through to (some)appropriate TVC lighting. Howard King was a pioneer of those big cloth based soft lights suspended over the set, Bob Wrights trick was to bounced (tons of) light off the cyc, a pain for cameramen as the light washed out our viewfinders! but lovely to look at (on the tv!)

Peter Fox

> On 31 Aug 2019, at 18:09, barryaustin2000 via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> I suppose that?s been the big change in lighting over the years, the change from ?classic? lighting to ?natural?  lighting. 
> 
> I remember Henry Barber ( what a smashing man ) lighting some long forgotten sitcom, it had the usual 3 sided sets with the open side towards the audience, this particular set was a travel agent shop, the missing fourth wall being the shop window to the street.  Henry put up a long strip of cyc cloth above the cameras and bounced a load of light off it to simulate daylight through the fourth wall window, to my knowledge the first time it was tried on a sitcom.  To those of us indoctrinated in classic TV lighting, this looked wrong, light coming from downstage instead of three quarter back lights as we?d been taught, whatever next, but I have to admit, it looked right in a realistic sense.
> 
> I suppose we were following the film industry, in films in the 1940?s each close up of the leading lady would have a classic, slightly upstage of her eyeline, key light no matter what situation she was in, just watch Casablanca and look at the lighting on Ingrid Bergman, it wasn?t ?real?, but boy did she look good.  I suppose that all changed with Cimena  Verite and the new wave , now realism is everything, people have got so good at it it?s hard to tell if a shot is lit at all.
> Whether the close up of the leading lady is better or worse than in days of yore is in the eye of the beholder. 
> 
> Quite agree with you on the relative merits of Bob Wright and Gerry Millerson, in their day Bob was simply the best both as a lighting man and as a person, Gerry wasn?t
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 31 Aug 2019, at 16:49, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> I must admit that I've always had somewhat of a bee in my bonnet about TC lighting, almost from when I joined in 1966.
>> 
>> I've told this story many times, but I'm going to bore you with it again - 
>> 
>> In the early sixties I really really wanted to be a BBC TV cameraman.  I spent hours reading books from the library - Dewey Decimal 621 maybe?  Anyway, the book I read several times was "The Technique of Television Production" by Gerald Millerson.  Eventually, in late 1966,  I was there, dragging cables (for years). One day I worked on Christ Recrucified, in TC1 with crew 2. The lighting man was going to be the legendary Gerry Millerson, and I looked forward to seeing the great man at work. The set was a Cypriot village, burning in the noonday sun. In the opening shot a man came in from the hills, nearly dead from exposure. He staggered across the town square in a huge wideshot - followed by three large sharp shadows.  I was horrified - this man, who I had given years of respect to, didn't know that we only have one sun.
>> 
>> And from then on, I wondered why TC lighting people didn't know that daylight comes in the window, and all that stuff we learned at Evesham about keylights and backlights had its place, but if you wanted anything realistic - and I for one did - you had to just stand in your living room and look - really look - at how the light works.  After I left cameras in 1977 I didn't visit the studios that often, but at some point things changed rather rapidly - suddenly all the sitcoms had lots of pieces of  cyc cloth hung around the front of the sets. Soft light at last!  These days everything has huge reflectors everywhere, though that's a whole lot easier if you're only using one camera.
>> 
>> So - though I have great respect for Howard and Duncan, even more for Bob Wright, and none at all for G. Millerson - I still wonder why it took people so long to notice that daylight comes in the window.
>> 
>> Back at Dad's Army, I found the supersharp front and end a little off-putting.  A small amount of effects work would have given a better context.
>> 
>> B
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> On 31/08/2019 11:39, Barry Austin wrote:
>>> The lighting on the original series was mainly Howard King, with Duncan Brown as well doing a few episodes, both highly respected, award winning lighting men, alas no longer with us.  I worked on some of episodes and remember Howard and Duncan very well, both lovely, if slightly eccentric, Duncan especially.
>>> 
>>> They were both Technical Manager 1s, as at the time, there was no such thing as a  Lighting Director in BBC studios, the TM1 did the lighting, but was also responsible for the total technical output of the studio, i.e. he was God !
>>> 
>>> It is unfair to compare the lighting of 50 years ago to the present day and say it is better now, each is very much of it?s time, it?s like saying the technical output of the camera is better today, of course it is, but what they had at the time is the best there was.
>>> 
>>> Technical quality is not the be all, watch episodes of Fawlty Towers and cringe at the wobbly sets, boom shadows, flares, dodgy zooms, 16mm film inserts,  and yet they are regarded as classics of the TV sitcom.  It?s appalling and wouldn?t be tolerated today,  but I worked on them and looking back, at the time, it was how we did things.
>>> 
>>> Without trying to be too pretentious, lighting, like any art form, is going to develop and change over time, just like any branch of the arts.  You wouldn?t say Turner is better than Rembrandt, they are each of their time and both valid.
>>> 
>>> Of course, not many present day LD?s would be happy today producing pictures similar to those of 50 years ago, so if these new episodes were meant to recreate he feel of the originals, perhaps the production should have employed some of us old timers that are still around  and who worked through, and knew, that era !
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>>>> On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:10, Graeme Wall via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ? 
>>>>> Graeme Wall
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:06, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Has anyone watched the new versions on Gold?  I just watched Sunday's - very good. The actors are very well cast, and the directing is true to Croft style original - no silliness. The lighting was much better - sorry to whoever did the original. 
>>>> Howard King?
>>>> -- 
>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
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From bernie833 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 31 16:31:16 2019
From: bernie833 at gmail.com (Bernard Newnham)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 22:31:16 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dad's Army
In-Reply-To: <DF3ABECF-687C-4064-B1FE-EEF0529FDAC9@zero51.force9.co.uk>
References: <57d0cd3f-ab51-b399-82ba-29c9e56f18cc@gmail.com>
	<D8F25F06-7BBE-4DFF-A450-1EFBAD6D0197@icloud.com>
	<BCA15C11-20C7-4804-9962-E23FC739CDA7@icloud.com>
	<0d982da5-25be-d630-b064-d6273d0d7309@ntlworld.com>
	<89F55798-B80F-4A45-BAB9-78733FC8D091@yahoo.co.uk>
	<DF3ABECF-687C-4064-B1FE-EEF0529FDAC9@zero51.force9.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4dc2beb7-0aca-62b6-1c6e-bad3d606acc7@ntlworld.com>

Another thing that annoyed me was that engineers always felt the need to 
put in lots of video peaking. Every shot looked like it was live. This 
didn't matter on factual stuff, but period drama that looked like it was 
looking out the window, really wasn't a good style. The worst material 
was when they first started shooting drama on electronic OBs.? The 
Pallisers (I think it was), looked like Eastenders with fancy frocks.

When I was senior enough in Pres, and had spent a few hours chatting up 
our local engineers, I had learned about Contours, the peaking knob on a 
Link 110. Every so often we needed to do live pictures in Pres A - I 
remember strawberries and cream for Wimbledon.? I'd say "Turn down the 
contours", and after a certain amount of fuss ("You can mark it and put 
it back!"), I had a much more natural look.? No peaking in the modern world.

B



On 31/08/2019 21:53, Peter Fox via Tech1 wrote:
> A BBC Ealing film drama that stood out for natural lighting was Days 
> of Hope ?starring Paul Copley and lit by Tony Pierce Roberts and that 
> was in 1975. It really was quite a break through in BBC TV lighting 
> and it soon fed through to (some)appropriate TVC lighting. Howard King 
> was a pioneer of those big cloth based soft lights suspended over the 
> set, Bob Wrights trick was to bounced (tons of) light off the cyc, a 
> pain for cameramen as the light washed out our viewfinders! but lovely 
> to look at (on the tv!)
>
> Peter Fox
>
> On 31 Aug 2019, at 18:09, barryaustin2000 via Tech1 
> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>> I suppose that?s been the big change in lighting over the years, the 
>> change from ?classic? lighting to ?natural? ?lighting.
>>
>> I remember Henry Barber ( what a smashing man ) lighting some long 
>> forgotten sitcom, it had the usual 3 sided sets with the open side 
>> towards the audience, this particular set was a travel agent shop, 
>> the missing fourth wall being the shop window to the street. ?Henry 
>> put up a long strip of cyc cloth above the cameras and bounced a load 
>> of light off it to simulate daylight through the fourth wall window, 
>> to my knowledge the first time it was tried on a sitcom. ?To those of 
>> us indoctrinated in classic TV lighting, this looked wrong, light 
>> coming from downstage instead of three quarter back lights as we?d 
>> been taught, whatever next, but I have to admit, it looked right in a 
>> realistic sense.
>>
>> I suppose we were following the film industry, in films in the 1940?s 
>> each close up of the leading lady would have a classic, slightly 
>> upstage of her eyeline, key light no matter what situation she was 
>> in, just watch Casablanca and look at the lighting on Ingrid Bergman, 
>> it wasn?t ?real?, but boy did she look good. ?I suppose that all 
>> changed with Cimena ?Verite and the new wave , now realism is 
>> everything, people have got so good at it it?s hard to tell if a shot 
>> is lit at all.
>> Whether the close up of the leading lady is better or worse than in 
>> days of yore is in the eye of the beholder.
>>
>> Quite agree with you on the relative merits of Bob Wright and Gerry 
>> Millerson, in their day Bob was simply the best both as a lighting 
>> man and as a person, Gerry wasn?t
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 31 Aug 2019, at 16:49, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 
>> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>> I must admit that I've always had somewhat of a bee in my bonnet 
>>> about TC lighting, almost from when I joined in 1966.
>>>
>>> I've told this story many times, but I'm going to bore you with it 
>>> again -
>>>
>>> In the early sixties I really really wanted to be a BBC TV 
>>> cameraman.? I spent hours reading books from the library - Dewey 
>>> Decimal 621 maybe?? Anyway, the book I read several times was "The 
>>> Technique of Television Production" by Gerald Millerson. Eventually, 
>>> in late 1966,? I was there, dragging cables (for years). One day I 
>>> worked on Christ Recrucified, in TC1 with crew 2. The lighting man 
>>> was going to be the legendary Gerry Millerson, and I looked forward 
>>> to seeing the great man at work. The set was a Cypriot village, 
>>> burning in the noonday sun. In the opening shot a man came in from 
>>> the hills, nearly dead from exposure. He staggered across the town 
>>> square in a huge wideshot - followed by three large sharp shadows.? 
>>> I was horrified - this man, who I had given years of respect to, 
>>> didn't know that we only have one sun.
>>>
>>> And from then on, I wondered why TC lighting people didn't know that 
>>> daylight comes in the window, and all that stuff we learned at 
>>> Evesham about keylights and backlights had its place, but if you 
>>> wanted anything realistic - and I for one did - you had to just 
>>> stand in your living room and look - really look - at how the light 
>>> works.? After I left cameras in 1977 I didn't visit the studios that 
>>> often, but at some point things changed rather rapidly - suddenly 
>>> all the sitcoms had lots of pieces of? cyc cloth hung around the 
>>> front of the sets. Soft light at last!? These days everything has 
>>> huge reflectors everywhere, though that's a whole lot easier if 
>>> you're only using one camera.
>>>
>>> So - though I have great respect for Howard and Duncan, even more 
>>> for Bob Wright, and none at all for G. Millerson - I still wonder 
>>> why it took people so long to notice that daylight comes in the window.
>>>
>>> Back at Dad's Army, I found the supersharp front and end a little 
>>> off-putting.? A small amount of effects work would have given a 
>>> better context.
>>>
>>> B
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 31/08/2019 11:39, Barry Austin wrote:
>>>> The lighting on the original series was mainly Howard King, with Duncan Brown as well doing a few episodes, both highly respected, award winning lighting men, alas no longer with us.  I worked on some of episodes and remember Howard and Duncan very well, both lovely, if slightly eccentric, Duncan especially.
>>>>
>>>> They were both Technical Manager 1s, as at the time, there was no such thing as a  Lighting Director in BBC studios, the TM1 did the lighting, but was also responsible for the total technical output of the studio, i.e. he was God !
>>>>
>>>> It is unfair to compare the lighting of 50 years ago to the present day and say it is better now, each is very much of it?s time, it?s like saying the technical output of the camera is better today, of course it is, but what they had at the time is the best there was.
>>>>
>>>> Technical quality is not the be all, watch episodes of Fawlty Towers and cringe at the wobbly sets, boom shadows, flares, dodgy zooms, 16mm film inserts,  and yet they are regarded as classics of the TV sitcom.  It?s appalling and wouldn?t be tolerated today,  but I worked on them and looking back, at the time, it was how we did things.
>>>>
>>>> Without trying to be too pretentious, lighting, like any art form, is going to develop and change over time, just like any branch of the arts.  You wouldn?t say Turner is better than Rembrandt, they are each of their time and both valid.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, not many present day LD?s would be happy today producing pictures similar to those of 50 years ago, so if these new episodes were meant to recreate he feel of the originals, perhaps the production should have employed some of us old timers that are still around  and who worked through, and knew, that era !
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:10, Graeme Wall via Tech1<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>> Graeme Wall
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:06, Bernard Newnham via Tech1<tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Has anyone watched the new versions on Gold?  I just watched Sunday's - very good. The actors are very well cast, and the directing is true to Croft style original - no silliness. The lighting was much better - sorry to whoever did the original.
>>>>> Howard King?
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
>>>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Tech1 mailing list
>>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>> -- 
>> Tech1 mailing list
>> Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:Tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk>
>> http://tech-ops.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/tech1_tech-ops.co.uk
>

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From alex.thomas1 at talktalk.net  Sat Aug 31 17:38:41 2019
From: alex.thomas1 at talktalk.net (Alex Thomas)
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2019 23:38:41 +0100
Subject: [Tech1] Dad's Army
In-Reply-To: <89F55798-B80F-4A45-BAB9-78733FC8D091@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <57d0cd3f-ab51-b399-82ba-29c9e56f18cc@gmail.com>	<D8F25F06-7BBE-4DFF-A450-1EFBAD6D0197@icloud.com>	<BCA15C11-20C7-4804-9962-E23FC739CDA7@icloud.com>	<0d982da5-25be-d630-b064-d6273d0d7309@ntlworld.com>
	<89F55798-B80F-4A45-BAB9-78733FC8D091@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000701d5604c$d71c1320$85543960$@talktalk.net>

I remember Gerry Millerson?s habit of placing a lamp on a  5 foot stand right in the middle of the ?fourth wall?.

 

It made it very difficult to get a central wide shot. I couldn?t understand why he couldn?t add filler from a soft lamp slung from above.

 

His ?horse? name was ?Rhino? and Frank Rose aka ?horse? who named us all got it exactly right.

 

I remember Gerry asking us all to request his book in our local library so that it would boost sales.

 

I am sure that none of us did.

 

Alex Thomas (aka ?Woolly Moth?)

 

From: Tech1 <tech1-bounces at tech-ops.co.uk> On Behalf Of barryaustin2000 via Tech1
Sent: 31 August 2019 18:09
To: bernard.newnham at ntlworld.com
Cc: tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Tech1] Dad's Army

 

I suppose that?s been the big change in lighting over the years, the change from ?classic? lighting to ?natural?  lighting. 

 

I remember Henry Barber ( what a smashing man ) lighting some long forgotten sitcom, it had the usual 3 sided sets with the open side towards the audience, this particular set was a travel agent shop, the missing fourth wall being the shop window to the street.  Henry put up a long strip of cyc cloth above the cameras and bounced a load of light off it to simulate daylight through the fourth wall window, to my knowledge the first time it was tried on a sitcom.  To those of us indoctrinated in classic TV lighting, this looked wrong, light coming from downstage instead of three quarter back lights as we?d been taught, whatever next, but I have to admit, it looked right in a realistic sense.

 

I suppose we were following the film industry, in films in the 1940?s each close up of the leading lady would have a classic, slightly upstage of her eyeline, key light no matter what situation she was in, just watch Casablanca and look at the lighting on Ingrid Bergman, it wasn?t ?real?, but boy did she look good.  I suppose that all changed with Cimena  Verite and the new wave , now realism is everything, people have got so good at it it?s hard to tell if a shot is lit at all.

Whether the close up of the leading lady is better or worse than in days of yore is in the eye of the beholder. 

 

Quite agree with you on the relative merits of Bob Wright and Gerry Millerson, in their day Bob was simply the best both as a lighting man and as a person, Gerry wasn?t

 

 

Sent from my iPhone


On 31 Aug 2019, at 16:49, Bernard Newnham via Tech1 <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> > wrote:

I must admit that I've always had somewhat of a bee in my bonnet about TC lighting, almost from when I joined in 1966.

I've told this story many times, but I'm going to bore you with it again - 

In the early sixties I really really wanted to be a BBC TV cameraman.  I spent hours reading books from the library - Dewey Decimal 621 maybe?  Anyway, the book I read several times was "The Technique of Television Production" by Gerald Millerson.  Eventually, in late 1966,  I was there, dragging cables (for years). One day I worked on Christ Recrucified, in TC1 with crew 2. The lighting man was going to be the legendary Gerry Millerson, and I looked forward to seeing the great man at work. The set was a Cypriot village, burning in the noonday sun. In the opening shot a man came in from the hills, nearly dead from exposure. He staggered across the town square in a huge wideshot - followed by three large sharp shadows.  I was horrified - this man, who I had given years of respect to, didn't know that we only have one sun.

And from then on, I wondered why TC lighting people didn't know that daylight comes in the window, and all that stuff we learned at Evesham about keylights and backlights had its place, but if you wanted anything realistic - and I for one did - you had to just stand in your living room and look - really look - at how the light works.  After I left cameras in 1977 I didn't visit the studios that often, but at some point things changed rather rapidly - suddenly all the sitcoms had lots of pieces of  cyc cloth hung around the front of the sets. Soft light at last!  These days everything has huge reflectors everywhere, though that's a whole lot easier if you're only using one camera.

So - though I have great respect for Howard and Duncan, even more for Bob Wright, and none at all for G. Millerson - I still wonder why it took people so long to notice that daylight comes in the window.

Back at Dad's Army, I found the supersharp front and end a little off-putting.  A small amount of effects work would have given a better context.

B

  



On 31/08/2019 11:39, Barry Austin wrote:

The lighting on the original series was mainly Howard King, with Duncan Brown as well doing a few episodes, both highly respected, award winning lighting men, alas no longer with us.  I worked on some of episodes and remember Howard and Duncan very well, both lovely, if slightly eccentric, Duncan especially.
 
They were both Technical Manager 1s, as at the time, there was no such thing as a  Lighting Director in BBC studios, the TM1 did the lighting, but was also responsible for the total technical output of the studio, i.e. he was God !
 
It is unfair to compare the lighting of 50 years ago to the present day and say it is better now, each is very much of it?s time, it?s like saying the technical output of the camera is better today, of course it is, but what they had at the time is the best there was.
 
Technical quality is not the be all, watch episodes of Fawlty Towers and cringe at the wobbly sets, boom shadows, flares, dodgy zooms, 16mm film inserts,  and yet they are regarded as classics of the TV sitcom.  It?s appalling and wouldn?t be tolerated today,  but I worked on them and looking back, at the time, it was how we did things.
 
Without trying to be too pretentious, lighting, like any art form, is going to develop and change over time, just like any branch of the arts.  You wouldn?t say Turner is better than Rembrandt, they are each of their time and both valid.
 
Of course, not many present day LD?s would be happy today producing pictures similar to those of 50 years ago, so if these new episodes were meant to recreate he feel of the originals, perhaps the production should have employed some of us old timers that are still around  and who worked through, and knew, that era !
 
Sent from my iPad
 

On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:10, Graeme Wall via Tech1  <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
 
 
? 
Graeme Wall
 
 

On 30 Aug 2019, at 22:06, Bernard Newnham via Tech1  <mailto:tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> <tech1 at tech-ops.co.uk> wrote:
 
Has anyone watched the new versions on Gold?  I just watched Sunday's - very good. The actors are very well cast, and the directing is true to Croft style original - no silliness. The lighting was much better - sorry to whoever did the original. 

Howard King?
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